[Senate Hearing 117-1]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-1
HEARING ON THE NOMINATION OF
MICHAEL S. REGAN TO BE ADMINISTRATOR
OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON
ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
FEBRUARY 3, 2021
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
43-814 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021
COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont Virginia,
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island Ranking Member
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama
MARK KELLY, Arizona JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
ALEX PADILLA, California ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
JONI ERNST, Iowa
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
Mary Frances Repko, Democratic Staff Director
Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
FEBRUARY 3, 2021
OPENING STATEMENTS
Barrasso, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of Wyoming...... 1
Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West
Virginia....................................................... 3
Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware.. 5
WITNESSES
Burr, Hon. Richard, U.S. Senator from the State of North Carolina 9
Tillis, Hon. Thom, U.S. Senator from the State of North Carolina. 10
Regan, Michael S., nominated to be Administrator of the
Environmental Protection Agency................................ 11
Prepared statement........................................... 14
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Carper........................................... 17
Senator Carper for Senator Booker........................ 20
Senator Whitehouse....................................... 22
Senator Kelly............................................ 23
Senator Padilla.......................................... 26
Senator Capito........................................... 28
Senator Capito for Senator Barrasso...................... 87
Senator Capito for Senator Rounds........................ 94
Senator Inhofe........................................... 96
Senator Cramer........................................... 101
Response to an additional question from Senator Boozman...... 105
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Wicker........................................... 106
Senator Sullivan......................................... 108
Senator Ernst............................................ 110
ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
Family-Supporting Union Jobs Major Component of Biden's Climate
Actions, AFL-CIO, January 27, 2021............................. 132
Obama's Last Three Years Of Job Growth All Beat Trump's Best
Year, Forbes, February 7, 2020................................. 133
Letter to Senators Carper and Capito from the Agricultural
Retailers Association et al., January 20, 2021................. 148
Indigenous Women Call Upon Biden to Stop Pipelines and Uphold
Indigenous Rights in the Wake of Escalating Climate Chaos and
Covid-19 Crises, Women's Earth & Climate Action Network,
January 14, 2021............................................... 160
Biden Revokes Keystone XL, Indigenous Leaders Celebrate and Push
for Stronger Action, the Indigenous Environmental Network,
January 20, 2021............................................... 163
NDN Collective Responds to President Biden Rescinding Keystone XL
Pipeline Permit and Vow to Rejoin the Paris Agreement, the NDN
Collective, January 21, 2021................................... 165
Debunking the Trump Administration's New Water Rule, Center for
American Progress, March 27, 2019.............................. 168
Will Keystone XL Pipeline Create Many Construction Jobs?, Live
Science, August 7, 2013........................................ 173
The Keystone XL Tar Sands Pipeline Is Still a Bad Idea, the
Natural Resources Defense Council, January 23, 2017............ 177
Toyota, Fiat Chrysler drop support for Trump effort to bar
California emissions rules, Reuters, accessed February 3, 2021. 183
Fact check: Did Biden `destroy' 11,000 Keystone Pipeline jobs?,
wral.com, January 25, 2021..................................... 186
Statement congratulating Secretary Regan on his nomination, Duke
Energy......................................................... 192
Letter to Senators Carper and Capito from:
The Chemours Company, February 2, 2021....................... 193
The Edison Electric Institute, February 2, 2021.............. 195
The National Cattlemen's Beef Association, January 26, 2021.. 196
The Outdoor Industry Association, February 2, 2021........... 197
AmericanHort et al., January 27, 2021........................ 199
The Renewable Fuels Association, February 1, 2021............ 200
The Rural Community Assistance Partnership, January 29, 2021. 201
The Alaska Salmon Habitat Information Program, February 5,
2021....................................................... 202
The Recycling Partnership, February 3, 2021.................. 204
The Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, February 3,
2021....................................................... 205
Letter to:
President Joseph R. Biden, Jr., from Patrick Morrisey, West
Virginia Attorney General, et al., January 27, 2021........ 206
The members of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
from the Chamber of Commerce of the United States of
America, February 8, 2021.................................. 212
Senators Charles E. Schumer et al. from the BlueGreen
Alliance, February 2, 2021................................. 213
Senators Chuck Schumer et al. from the Alabama Rivers
Alliance et al., February 2, 2021.......................... 215
Senators Chuck Schumer et al. from the Evangelical
Environmental Network, February 2, 2021.................... 218
Senator Carper from the Healing Our Waters--Great Lakes
Coalition, February 2, 2021................................ 220
Senators Barrasso and Carper from PeopleForBikes, February 3,
2021....................................................... 223
Senator from the National Parks Conservation Association,
February 1, 2021........................................... 224
Senator from the National Religious Partnership for the
Environment, February 8, 2021.............................. 226
HEARING ON THE NOMINATION OF MICHAEL S. REGAN TO BE ADMINISTRATOR OF
THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
----------
WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 2021
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Environment and Public Works,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:04 p.m. in room
106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Shelley Moore Capito
(Chairman of the Committee) presiding.
Present: Senators Capito, Carper, Barrasso, Inhofe, Cramer,
Braun, Rounds, Sullivan, Boozman, Wicker, Ernst, Lummis,
Cardin, Whitehouse, Merkley, Gillibrand, Booker, Markey,
Duckworth, and Van Hollen.
Senator Capito. I would like to call the Committee to
order. I think we have an exciting day today. Any time that we
are considering one of the President's nominees to an extremely
important Cabinet position, it bears our not just great
attention, but also our gratitude to folks who put their names
in for public service. So we will get a lot into that today.
In finality, this is our Chairman's, Chairman Barrasso's
final meeting, final showing in EPW. He will be moving over to
Energy in a leadership position over there. He will also be
leaving this Committee.
So it is with great sadness and regret that we know that
you are leaving, Chairman Barrasso. We thank you so much for
your years of service here, and certainly your leadership as
Chairman of this extremely important Committee, particularly
with that Transportation Bill last year.
So I am going to turn it over to you for some statements,
and then we will proceed with the rest of the meeting.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Thank you so very much, Senator Capito.
We are here today to consider the nomination of Michael S.
Regan to be Administrator of the Environmental Protection
Agency.
But before we begin with the formal proceedings, I see the
two Senators from North Carolina are here to do introductions,
I just want to start by saying a few words about our incoming
Chairman, Tom Carper, and our incoming Ranking Member, Shelley
Moore Capito.
For the past 4 years, it has been a pleasure to work so
closely with both Senators Carper and Capito here on the
Committee. Our partnership, the three of us, as well as other
members of the Committee, resulted in two separate bipartisan
water infrastructure laws that are going to create jobs and
provide clean drinking water to communities, increase water
storage in the West, prevent floods, replenish beaches on the
coast, and help keep our economy moving.
We wrote comprehensive, historic highway infrastructure
legislation that included hundreds of billions of dollars for
America's roads and bridges. Our highway legislation cut red
tape for important construction projects while also including
the first ever--first ever climate title to protect our
environment coming out of this Committee, as part of the
Transportation Bill.
Senator Carper was my bipartisan partner on these efforts,
and Senator Capito played a central and critical role in
writing these bills, as she served as the Chair of the
Infrastructure Subcommittee.
Our highway legislation passed the EPW Committee
unanimously, 21 to zero.
Senator Carper and I also worked together to pass multiple
laws to protect wildlife. The WILD Act is going to help spark
groundbreaking conservation innovation and protect iconic
species.
We also passed the America's Conservation Enhancement Act,
also known as the ACE Act. The purpose, of course, was to
combat invasive species, to address emerging wildlife diseases
like chronic wasting disease, all while protecting livestock
from predators. These bills were praised by farmers, hunters,
anglers, conservation groups, environmentalists, and our home
States.
Finally, we partnered to pass a historic environmental
innovation law that will boost carbon capture technologies
while also reducing greenhouse gases from our homes, our air
conditioners, and our school buses. This Committee has served
as a shining example of what can be accomplished when Democrats
and Republicans work together. We agreed to follow Senator
Enzi's 80-20 rule, and we worked where we could, and we found
common ground repeatedly.
Bipartisan change is lasting change. It will make a big
difference for a long time to come. We were able to work
together to get things done for the American people.
Senator Carper, I sincerely want to thank you, thank your
staff, for working with me over these past 4 years, and for
your dedication to getting so very much done in a bipartisan
and productive way. And I am very confident that that
productive partnership is going to continue with Senator Capito
as the top Republican on the Committee. As I have already said,
she has played such a critical and crucial role in getting our
infrastructure legislation across the finish line. She also was
a leader when our Committee worked across party lines to
address pollution from PFAS chemicals, a leader in that area, a
priority for her and her home State.
So I know she will lead the Republicans on the EPW very
well. This Committee is in very capable hands.
With that, I will turn the gavel over to Senator Capito to
preside over the hearing.
Thank you to both of you.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA
Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your
being here.
We have another former Chairman here as well, and then in
probably 5 minutes, the soon to be Chairman. So I get to be a
Chairman, too, so this is probably some historic number of
Chairmen here.
Thank you again for your service to this Committee. I know
you will do great work over on Energy, as you do everywhere. So
thanks a lot, and thanks for enumerating some of the successes
from last year.
I would like to give an opening statement, then I will turn
to my Ranking Member, who is my Ranking Member for 10 minutes.
In any event, some of the successes I would like to talk
about that we were able to achieve in this Committee over the
last several years was when President Trump signed the USEIT
Act, which supports carbon capture and utilization, and
sequestration. It was a great bipartisan bill that Senator
Whitehouse and Senator Barrasso and several of us on the
Committee worked on together.
The Diesel Emissions Reduction Act, which is something we
have been working for years, was passed. Another WRDA bill went
through at the end of the year, which is always a good every 2
year exercise for all of us. And the American Innovation in
Manufacturing, or the AIM Act, which will reduce emissions of
HFCs used in air conditioning and refrigeration.
So that spirit of bipartisanship that we had last year I
hope is one that we can, and I intend to certainly maintain and
foster, and from our conversations, numerous conversations, I
know, I feel as though Senator Carper feels the same way.
Our most pressing focus this Congress will be passing the 5
year Highway Bill. This is a tall order, but one where this
Committee has already had a record of success. Senator Barrasso
talked about it. We reported out the bill 21 to nothing last
year, and I look forward to--and I think we are going to have
quick work taking up the Highway Bill in this Committee.
Because the importance, not just to our Nation's
infrastructure, but also to our employment structure here; it
is a jobs bill. It always has been, and it will remain that
way, and at a time no more timely than the present. So I look
forward to working with everybody because we must give our
States the certainty.
With that optimistic introduction, I want to welcome our
nominee for Secretary, Michael Regan, and his family here, the
nominee for EPA Administrator, to our Committee today. I got to
meet his wife and his very fun and smart young son, Matthew.
So congratulations on your nomination. I look forward to
the opportunity to get to know you better, and discuss and work
together into the future.
While I am encouraged by the continuing bipartisanship
among members of our Committee, I am concerned by the direction
that the Administration has taken in the first few weeks of
office. I want to understand your position on these policies.
We talked on the phone about this. President Biden did campaign
on issues of unity, and there is no committee where we praise
unity more, and sometimes we have more disunity sometimes, than
this Committee that we are sitting on.
The barrage of executive orders has particular concern for
me. His decision on the Keystone XL pipeline has, I think,
great impacts in the job markets. He has put us back in the
Paris Agreement, which also has great impacts, both
economically in this country, and his Administration has
doubled down on the desire to financially support other
countries' climate goals, while our own country, as we know, is
facing economic challenges.
He has ordered agencies across the Federal Government to
examine and uproot critical regulatory reforms, including
several within the jurisdiction of the EPA, even without an
administrator in place. Executive Order 13990 directs the EPA
to consider suspending, revising, or rescinding major rules
that were put into place by the Trump administration. Those
rules include regulations on methane emissions; the safer,
affordable fuel efficient vehicles rule, called the SAFER Rule;
and the cost-benefit and science transparency policies.
In my view, I think that I see this as a foreboding of what
happened in past Administrations. Coming from a State like West
Virginia, it is a cautionary tale.
The fate of other rules, like the Affordable Clean Energy
Rule, and the Navigable Water Protection Rule, which are
important in all of our States, is something that I am sure we
will be digging down on in this hearing. So I would like to say
that it is hard to build back better as the President has said
if we can't build anything. That is why I think the Executive
Order 13990, which directs us to revisit the NEPA regulations,
which we were encouraging to expedite infrastructure delivery,
I think is also--could be, problematic.
So I think that the President has taken, he has talked, I
mean, I was in the Oval Office with him on Monday as we talk a
lot about bipartisanship and the need to work together. So I
think that I am concerned about some of the appointments that
the President has made where they are not in the purview of
this Committee or any, really, congressional committee or
congressional oversight. That of course would be Gina McCarthy
and John Kerry. They have already established themselves as the
unconfirmed and unaccountable czars on climate, as they made
that very clear on Wednesday's White House press conference.
I am concerned that this is shaping up to be a third Obama
administration. And as I enumerated, and I know I have talked
with my friend, Senator Carper, about the impacts that that had
on my State of West Virginia.
I am concerned about the leadership in the White House,
with the czars, what kind of impacts will that have on you,
should you be successful to become the EPA Administrator, what
kind of impacts that will have on you as you carve your own
course in conjunction with the Administration.
I would remind you, and I think I did on the phone call,
that one of my objections to Ms. McCarthy is the fact that she
wouldn't, at our invitation and many invitations, come to the
home States of those Senators where had the most deep economic
impacts of the Clean Power Plan. It still stings, I will say. I
am hoping that we can have a different outcome. You and I
talked about this on the phone.
So I think as we look at that, and that is a balance, it is
an achievable balance, but it is a balance. I think that the
President and you also talk a lot about environmental and
economic justice. But sometimes I question, where is the
justice when it is not taken into consideration that many
people are being plunged into poverty, unemployment, drug
addiction, and hopelessness by some of the misguided policies.
So with that, I will turn this over to Senator Carper, who
is in this particular meeting the Ranking Member. But I look
forward to discussing this, and I look forward to having our
two Senators after Senator Carper makes his opening statement.
Thank you.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE
Senator Carper. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Most people remember January 6th as a day that will live in
infamy, and the Capitol was stormed and overwhelmed by
thousands of rioters; people died; in fact, we lost another
Capitol policeman just this week, very sadly. Another, we are
remembering another one who sits in state today in the Capitol.
The thing that I remember also about that day, and you may
as well, Madam Chair, you may remember when the Senators had
gathered, it was about noon on the 6th, and the idea was for
Senators to walk through the Capitol down to the House chamber
to begin the work of certifying the results from 50 States with
respect to the election. We usually walk two by two, like
Noah's ark. I asked Senator Capito if we could just walk
together, and she graciously said yes, and we did.
Along the way, we talked. I hope you remember this; I
certainly do. We talked about a common agenda that we can work
on together. The idea was that we can have cleaner air, cleaner
water, address climate change, and create jobs, a lot of
economic opportunity, including in places like West Virginia,
my native State. I found it a very encouraging conversation.
I am also encouraged by the words of Senator Barrasso, a
good friend and good partner over the last several years on
this Committee. He has a close friend from Wyoming who ended up
being Assistant Secretary of the Interior, Rob Wallace.
Rob Wallace sat right there in our hearing a couple of
years ago for his confirmation hearing to go to the Department
of Interior. Some of you may remember when Rob Wallace was
reminded of the bipartisan nature of this Committee, the way we
work, whether the Chair is Jim Inhofe or Shelley Capito or Tom
Carper or John Barrasso, that is the way we have traditionally
worked.
That is the way I want to see us continue to work. Rob
Wallace said these words, I will never forget, I have used them
hundreds of times since. He said, ``Bipartisan solutions are
lasting solutions.'' That is what he said, bipartisan solutions
are lasting solutions. That is true in this Committee, and God
willing, it will always be true.
I just want to say a special thanks to two Senators from
North Carolina; Richard, welcome; Tom, welcome. We are
delighted that you are both able to be here. It is very good of
you to come.
I also want to say, we are gathered here, first of all,
Melvina, would you raise your hand? I feel like we are on a
football field here.
Matthew, would you stand up? Matthew, how are you doing,
buddy? Welcome, thank you so much, both of you, for being here,
to be with your husband and be with your dad.
We are gathered here today to consider the nomination of
Michael Regan to serve as the Administrator of the
Environmental Protection Agency. It reminds me a little bit of
what we used to do in the Navy, we had hail and farewell events
several times a year, for those who were coming in to join us
for my squadron or those who were leaving.
We are welcoming some new folks on our side. I think
Senator Stabenow and Senator Kelly, Padilla are joining us
here. We are saying goodbye, though, to Senator Gillibrand,
Senator Booker, and Senator Van Hollen. And I just learned here
today we are saying goodbye to our friend John Barrasso, which
I did not see coming. I am surprised to hear that, and
disappointed.
I want to thank John for his leadership over the past 4
years. It has been a joy working with him and his staff, led by
Richard. I want to thank Mary Frances over here. She and
Richard made a good team. We got so much done, so much done,
very, very proud of what we accomplished by working together.
I also want to thank you, Madam Chair, and your staff, for
your assistance in bringing this hearing together today. I want
to congratulate you on your new leadership positions, both of
them, one more short term than the other.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. As we discussed last month on January 6th,
and as recently as last week, there is a lot of important work
ahead for our Committee. I very much look forward to working
together as partners in tackling the challenges facing our
Nation and our planet.
With that, I want to warmly welcome our nominee, Mr. Regan,
and thank him for being here with us today, and also his wife,
Melvina and his son, Matthew.
I want to thank your wife and our son not just for them
being here, I just want to thank you for your willingness to
share your husband and our dad with our country. This is really
important work. This is going to help determine what kind of
planet we live on, and Earth we have, the quality of our life
in the days to come. So thank you for sharing him, as you have
already shared him with the people of North Carolina.
As we know, Mr. Regan and his family hail from the State of
North Carolina, birthplace of my wife, Martha, who Michael may
recall is a graduate of Appalachian State University, where her
dad taught math and physics for 40 years. She sends her very
best wishes to you and your family on this special day,
Michael.
Martha and I had the privilege of meeting Michael about a
year ago. As I have gotten to know him in time since then, I
have become convinced that he is the right person to lead the
Environmental Protection Agency during this critical time in
our Nation's history. He is a man of deep faith, who believes,
as I think all of us do, that we have a moral obligation to be
good stewards of this planet on which we live.
I believe that Michael Regan is someone who can help unite
us in a common purpose, as we respond to the climate crisis we
face as well, as to clean our air, our water, and strive to
make sure that we don't leave some of our communities and
neighbors behind in the effort to do so.
Currently, Mr. Regan serves as the secretary of North
Carolina's Department of Environmental Quality, a role where he
has demonstrated over the past 4 years the power of effective
leadership in improving the quality of the air North
Carolinians breathe, and their neighboring States as well, and
the water they drink.
For proof of this, we need only look at some of his
accomplishments during his tenure there. They include leading
the negotiations that resulted in the cleanup of Cape Fear, not
far from where my wife, Martha, lived and worked when she was
getting out of college.
He also negotiated and oversaw what is considered to be the
largest coal ash cleanup settlement in I think the history of
the United States. He created North Carolina's first ever
Environmental Justice and Equity Advisory Board.
Mr. Regan has been able to do these things and much more by
bringing people together in common cause while never
compromising on his principles. Again, the presence of Senators
Burr and Tillis here bear testimony to that, and again, we
welcome each of you to this hearing.
In the Tarheel State, Michael Regan developed a reputation
as a leader who works with Democrats and with Republicans to
forge practical solutions, solutions that protect the air we
breathe, the water we drink, while supporting job creation and
economic growth. As we struggle to put this current recession
behind us, that kind of leadership is what need now more than
ever at EPA.
It is no secret that the next EPA Administrator has his
work cut out for him. In addition to addressing the serious
environmental issues that are affecting Americans, the next EPA
Administrator will also be tasked, along with the members of
this Committee, to help him rebuild an agency badly damaged at
times in recent years by flawed leadership and an agency
suffering from organizational drift, and for the most part, low
morale. One of the keys to accomplishing this will be restoring
scientific integrity as a foundation of policymaking at EPA.
Michael Regan understands that well.
The men and women of EPA need to work with purpose and with
dispatch to address the climate crisis facing our Nation and
our planet. It is real; the threat it poses to our planet is
growing worse, not better. The EPA team can do so in part by
working with the U.S. Department of Transportation, the auto
industry, and others to restore vehicular greenhouse gas
emissions standards.
As you know, we have had some encouraging developments
there, especially with mobile sources, the auto industry
reaching out and saying, we want to be part of the solution. I
am very much encouraged by that, just in the past week.
The EPA team also needs to implement our new HFC phase down
law and the Toxic Substance Control Act, both authored by
members of this Committee. As well as to reverse and replace
the oil and gas methane rules and begin work on the next phase
of climate rules for power plants, vehicles, and refineries.
In addition, EPA needs to ensure cleaner air by
reestablishing the legal basis for Mercury and Air Toxic
Standards. And it must better protect human health, as North
Carolina has already done, by taking action on certain so
called forever chemicals, such as PFOA and PFAS, that also foul
the groundwater of States like West Virginia, Delaware, and
hundreds of other communities across America. Moreover, in
doing this work, EPA must curb the influence of special
interests within its scientific advisory bodies.
Our new President is calling on Americans to Build Back
Better. To do that, we will need to redouble our efforts to
address the climate crisis, safeguard our air and our water, as
well as our other natural resources and ensure environmental
justice in all of our communities. We must rebuild our
infrastructure, roads, highways, bridges, water, wastewater,
access to broadband, those are just some of the parts of our
infrastructure that need to be rebuilt. They shouldn't be
partisan issues; they ought to be bipartisan issues. I think
they will be. Most of those are within the purview of this
Committee.
That does not diminish how hard it is going to be; it is
going to be a challenge. The challenges are daunting. But if we
do it together, we will succeed.
I believe that Michael Regan is the partner we need at EPA
to do these things. He has a good heart and a good mind. He
knows how to assemble, retain, and inspire a team of talented
men and women. He has what it takes to help us make progress on
many fronts as we seek to protect our planet and its
inhabitants while creating a more nurturing environment for job
creation and job preservation at the same time. That is why
President Biden has nominated him for this important position.
So, Mr. Regan, welcome. Thank you for appearing before us
this afternoon and for your willingness to serve our Nation as
we take on some of the most serious challenges in our history.
We look forward to hearing from you today, and if confirmed, to
working with you and those you will lead in the years to come.
Before I turn it over to Senator Capito, let me close with
these words of Albert Einstein. Albert Einstein used to say,
``In adversity lies opportunity.'' Think about that. In
adversity lies opportunity. There is no doubt that we face
plenty of adversity in this country and on this planet as we
gather here today, but along with that adversity comes
extraordinary opportunities to do great things for the people
whom we are privileged to represent, along with our neighbors,
whether those neighbors live on the other side of the street,
on the other side of town, or on the other side of the world.
Again, thank you all for giving me a chance to serve with
you. I am thrilled that we are here for this day. Thank you
all.
Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator Carper. Thank you for
the kind words, and I certainly look forward to our serving
together at the helm of this Committee.
Now, I am very honored to have both home State senators
here from North Carolina, and I would like to recognize Senator
Burr for an introduction of our nominee.
STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD BURR,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA
Senator Burr. Madam Chairman, thank you very much.
Chairman soon to be, thank you. I didn't think we would
make history today at this hearing, but I think this probably
will be the shortest chairmanship in the history of the U.S.
Senate.
[Laughter.]
Senator Burr. And Senator Tillis and I were talking, where
you have the witnesses positioned in the room, this is sort of
like looking at Russia from Alaska. I am sorry Senator Sullivan
left. It is hard to see all that way.
I appreciate the opportunity to come before the Committee
today to introduce Secretary Michael Regan as you consider his
nomination to be Administrator of the Environmental Protection
Agency. It is always a pleasure to introduce someone from your
own State, especially one with whom I have had the opportunity
and the pleasure of working and who is extremely, extremely
qualified for this position.
Secretary Regan is a proud North Carolinian, born and
raised in Goldsboro, North Carolina, by his parents, Zeb and
Mavis, along with his brother and sister. Both of his parents
were public servants, with his mother working as a nurse for
over 30 years, and his father served in Vietnam and continued
to serve in North Carolina in the National Guard until his
retirement as a colonel. It is clear that his parents instilled
not only the values of public service, but also a love affair
with the outdoors, including hunting and fishing. That
continues to this day. I could say a passion we both share.
While attending North Carolina A&T, Michael met his
beautiful wife, Melvina. Melvina is likely the real star of the
family, having graduated from North Carolina A&T along with a
master's from Radford University. She currently works in the
Research Triangle Park. She has managed all of that while also
raising their son, Matthew.
Michael, after graduating from North Carolina A&T, where we
share in common a very good friend in the chancellor, Harold
Martin, with a degree in environmental science, Michael began
an internship with the EPA at the Research Triangle Park
campus. This was only a start, because he stayed with the EPA
for over 9 years, working in various offices and gaining policy
experience while also completing a master's in public
administration from George Washington University.
Following his initial tenure with the EPA, he served as
associate vice president for clean energy and southeastern
regional director for the Environmental Defense Fund. With his
stellar resume, Mr. Regan was tapped by Governor Cooper in 2017
to serve as the Secretary of the North Carolina Environment and
Quality. As the Committee evaluates his nomination, I believe
his tenure in North Carolina can tell many of you much about
how he will approach our shared desire for clean air and water
with the need to ensure we do not unnecessarily limit economic
opportunities.
North Carolina is blessed by beautiful coastlines and
mountains as well as some of the most fertile agricultural
lands in this country. As Secretary of the State's Department
of Environmental Quality, Secretary Regan was able to find the
right balance by reaching out to stakeholders and ensuring that
the Department's relationship with rural communities, whose
lifeblood is agriculture, was constructive and not adversarial.
To underscore this, Secretary Regan's nomination is
supported by over 20 of the largest agricultural organizations
in the country. These organizations and their State
associations understand that they are not always going to agree
with every decision handed down by the EPA. But they know and
trust they will receive a fair hearing.
It is my belief that Secretary Regan will bring the same
qualities, experiences, and values of environmental stewardship
while balancing the needs of rural communities to this new role
as Administrator. On top of that, let me say this. Michael is a
good man. He is a good husband. He is a great father. I look
forward to supporting his nomination on the floor.
I thank the Chair.
Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator Burr.
Senator Tillis, would you like to join in that rousing
introduction?
STATEMENT OF HON. THOM TILLIS,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA
Senator Tillis. Madam Chair, for the moment, and incoming
Chair in a matter of moments, thank you for letting me be here
with my friend and colleague, Senator Burr, to introduce
Michael Regan.
I am not going to cover some of the ground that Senator
Burr did so well, except to say that Secretary Regan is
somebody that I have tracked. I have a history in North
Carolina, I was speaker of the house down there. We took up
some of the thorny issues of coal ash, and passed legislation
back when I was speaker of the house. So I got to see some of
that come to life in a Republican administration, and then
continue to grow in a Democratic administration under Governor
Cooper.
I will tell you that in the time after his nomination was
put forth, I have spent a lot of time talking to people in
North Carolina, people in the agriculture sector, people in the
energy sector. And what they all said to a person is that
Michael distinguished himself as somebody who listens and
someone to try to take in the input from both sides and come up
with a fair outcome. And that is why I believe that he does
have the support of over 23 national leading organizations, not
only in agriculture, but in the business community.
We have to understand that the election produced a
different leader down in the White House. We can't imagine as
Republicans that we are necessarily going to have a President
with the same priorities as ours, but what we can hope for are
people in the Administration who have a track record of
listening and trying to come up with a sustainable outcome, as
Ranking Member Carper said, trying to produce something that
has enduring value. I believe that Michael will go to the EPA,
he will be fair, he will listen.
He will sometimes take on initiatives that I will disagree
with, most likely vote against. But I do believe that he will
be somebody that we can rely on to be fair with the reality of
the change and the transition.
So I want to thank him for being here today. I want to
thank him for his years of service and thank him in advance for
the tough job that he is about to take on.
I also want to welcome Melvina and Matthew. Matthew, if
this hearing goes long, I am right across the hallway, so you
can come visit with me. I'll bring you a goodie bag over here
with some North Carolina treats while you are waiting here.
But I really hope that you all will listen to him today,
ask him the tough questions that we should ask, the things that
we as Republican members are concerned with. But at the end of
the day, I think we have a great, well qualified nominee before
us. I encourage your support.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
I thank both of you, and thank you for reminding everybody
that this is going to be the shortest Chairmanship on record. I
appreciate that.
[Laughter.]
Senator Capito. I would like to introduce our nominee to
the Committee.
If you would like to change places, we will wait a few
minutes, Mr. Regan.
Thank you.
I would like to, as I said, bring Michael Regan, nominated
to be the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency,
which he is ready to testify. I want to remind you that your
full written statement will be made a part of the record. I
look forward to hearing your testimony.
But before you begin, I am sure you would like to do this,
and I look forward to this, would you like to introduce your
family or anyone else that is with you today?
STATEMENT OF MICHAEL S. REGAN, NOMINATED TO BE ADMINISTRATOR OF
THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
Mr. Regan. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
I think they have been introduced adequately, but I would
like to say that I do have my beautiful wife, Melvina, with me
today, and my son, Matthew. I am extremely grateful to have
both of them.
Senator Capito. And I am sure you have a lot of family and
friends who are tuning in right now, too. I am sure they extend
their best wishes to you.
So if you want to go ahead, proceed with your testimony, we
are all ears.
Mr. Regan. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman Capito and Ranking
Member Carper, and members of this Committee.
I am grateful for your time this afternoon and our shared
commitment to protecting our environment, our communities, and
our economy. I have dedicated my career to public service, and
I appreciate the opportunity to highlight my qualifications and
my passion for environmental stewardship, public health, and
economic prosperity.
I want to thank Senator Burr and Senator Tillis for their
kind words and very strong introduction. I want to thank
President Biden for nominating me and trusting me to lead this
important agency during this vital time in our Nation's
history.
Again, I want to especially thank my wonderful and
beautiful wife, Melvina, whom I am blessed to have as a partner
in life, as we navigate life together, my son Matthew, who I am
extremely proud of, and consider it a privilege to be his dad.
Together, we prayed as a family before I accepted this
nomination, and we are so proud to take on this assignment. I
am grateful for their support.
For the last 4 years, I have proudly served as the
Secretary of the North Carolina Department of Environmental
Quality, working to provide all North Carolinians with cleaner
air and cleaner water while nurturing our State's economy. I
fell in love with the outdoors growing up in eastern North
Carolina, hunting and fishing with my father and grandfather.
Those beautiful waters and those lands are legacies that they
were proud to share with me.
But they also taught me that protecting them was my
responsibility as well. Like millions of Americans living in
rural communities, preserving our natural resources isn't
something just to balance with the economy. It is essential for
economic growth, along with protecting public health and our
way of life.
Careful stewardship of the environment is more than just
passing down traditions to the next generation. It is about
learning from the past and being prepared to combat the
challenges that our future generations will face.
Both of my parents were dedicated public servants. My
mother, a nurse for close to 30 years, the best nurse in Wayne
County. My father served his country in Vietnam, worked for the
North Carolina Agricultural Extension Service for years, and
ultimately retired as a colonel with the North Carolina
National Guard.
So obviously, after graduating from North Carolina
Agriculture and Technical State University with a degree in
environmental science, I knew I wanted to find a way to serve.
That led to my first summer internship at EPA. I spent nearly
10 years at EPA under Presidents of both parties. It is an
honor of a lifetime to be invited back.
Throughout my career, I have learned, if you want to
address complex challenges, you must be able to see them from
all sides, and you must be willing to put yourself in other
people's shoes. The best way to do that is by convening
stakeholders where they live, where they work, and where they
serve, fostering an open dialogue rooted in the respect for
science, a clear understanding of the law, and a commitment to
building consensus with pragmatic solutions.
I have also learned that we can't simply regulate our way
out of every problem we face. This approach has proven to be
effective in my tenure as Secretary of DEQ. We have tackled the
adverse impacts of hog farms, cleaned up toxic PFAS pollution
in our rivers, and reached the largest coal ash settlement in
U.S. history.
I will never forget looking into the eyes of Amy Brown, the
mother of two boys, as she told me she had not let her sons
play in the bathtub or in the pool in the back yard for years,
because they were required to live on bottled water after the
Dan River coal ash spill.
That night, as I gave my son Matthew his bath, with fresh
tap water, I vowed that this story would have a happier ending
for Amy Brown and her two sons. And we did just that; by
following the science, following the law, bringing industries
together with the impacted communities, not as adversaries, but
as stakeholders working together for real solutions.
In North Carolina, we are moving beyond the old argument
that we have to pit creating jobs against protecting the
environment. We have demonstrated that you can do that from the
North Carolina mountains to the Old North State's coast.
President Biden has said, confronting climate change
presents an unprecedented economic and jobs opportunity. In
North Carolina, we have seized that opportunity, partnered with
private sectors to provide opportunities and regulatory
certainty, and harnessing our strength in manufacturing,
innovation, and research, which has resulted in the creation of
tens of thousands of new jobs in North Carolina.
If confirmed, I will work with the entire Administration to
build and strengthen that partnership, to power America's
economy with cleaner energy and create millions of good paying
middle class jobs. Our priorities for the environment are
clear: We will restore the role of science and transparency at
EPA. We will support the dedicated and talented career
officials.
We will move with a sense of urgency on climate change, and
we will stand up for environmental justice and equity. We will
do that in a collaborative manner, in partnership with State
and local governments, who know their own communities better
than the Federal Government ever could.
We will work transparently and responsibly with industries
eager to establish clear, consistent rules of engagement. And
we will engage working Americans whose voices have been absent
from these conversations about our environment for far too
long.
Last but not least, we will work to do this in partnership
with Congress, leveraging your expertise and concerns for your
constituents as we build healthier communities through
environmental stewardship and economic growth.
We all have a stake in the health of our environment, the
strength of our economy, the well being of our communities, and
the legacy that we will leave the next generation in the form
of the Nation's natural resources. While those values may not
unite us on every single policy question, I think it is a solid
foundation for a successful partnership.
I look forward to building on that foundation with you if
confirmed, and I look forward to answering any questions that
you might have for me today.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Regan follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Capito. Thank you, Secretary Regan. I appreciate
that.
I have some little business items before we get to the
questioning. The hearing will include two 5 minute rounds of
questions. I will start the second round after closing the
first.
To be fair to the other members of the Committee and the
witness, I ask Senators to please limit your questions each
round to the 5 minutes.
Throughout this hearing and with the questions for the
record, our Committee members will have an opportunity to learn
more about you, Mr. Regan. I would ask that throughout this
hearing, you please respond to the questions today, and for
those that we will submit for the record.
So these are the questions that I have to ask, and we ask
of all nominees on behalf of the Committee.
Do you agree, if confirmed, to appear before this Committee
or designated members of this Committee, and other appropriate
committees of the Congress, and provide information subject to
appropriate and necessary security protection, with respect to
your responsibilities?
Mr. Regan. I do.
Senator Capito. Do you agree to ensure the testimony,
briefings, documents, electronic, and other forms of
information are provided to this Committee and its staff and
other appropriate committees in a timely fashion?
Mr. Regan. Yes, I do.
Senator Capito. Do you know of any matters which you may or
may not have disclosed that might place you in a conflict of
interest if you are confirmed?
Mr. Regan. I do not.
Senator Capito. Thank you. Thank you very much.
With that, I will start with the 5 minute questioning.
First of all, thank you for your opening statement. Your
pledge of transparency is something that I think we are going
to hear a lot about today, and probably in every
Administration. This one certainly is no different.
So I am going to begin where you and I talked on the phone
and where I alluded to in my opening statements. That is the
fact of having a domestic climate czar in the White House who
was a former Administrator of the EPA, who really doesn't have
any accountability to Congress or to any of those of us for
oversight. Apparently, her authority is very sweeping. And she
stated that every single piece of the Federal budget will
reflect climate change policy. Her remark demonstrates there is
no part of the Government within her reach.
So have you met Gina McCarthy?
Mr. Regan. Yes, I have.
Senator Capito. You have. Have you talked about the two
roles that you would be fulfilling are going to interplay and
how that decisionmaking is going to roll out?
Mr. Regan. Yes, we have.
Senator Capito. What was the substance of that?
Mr. Regan. I think the substance of it was recognizing that
with the President's ambitious goals, that there was an all
hands on deck approach, and that he would have staff in the
White House that would have responsibilities and participating
in climate policy, and that that task would also be before
every single Cabinet agency.
So I think the crux of that conversation was recognizing
that Congress has bestowed certain powers upon me as
Administrator, as well as certain accountabilities. So I look
forward to working with the President's staff, but I also look
forward to working with every other Cabinet agency as we
develop a comprehensive pathway to reach the President's
ambitious climate goals.
Senator Capito. Did you get a sense in the conversation
with her that you would be reporting directly to her or to the
President, or a little bit of both?
Mr. Regan. I think it is pretty clear that this position
reports to the President. This position will be working with
the staff in the White House. And of course, this position will
be working with all of the Cabinet agencies required for this
whole of Government approach.
Senator Capito. What about if there is a disagreement
between the climate czar and the Administrator of the EPA? I
would hope that the transparency pledge would follow through on
that, if you reach decisions, who is making that decision and
how it was determined. How would you see disagreements being
resolved when it is not inter-Cabinets, but with a czar and a
member of the President's Cabinet?
Mr. Regan. With every complex issue, we anticipate healthy
debates. I believe that the realities are we have different
positions that we serve in the Administration.
So I have no reason to believe that the positions of the
EPA and the positions of the White House staff will get equal
hearings. Hopefully, we will have robust discussions in a
manner that will yield the best results for the President to
achieve this ambitious climate goal.
Senator Capito. Well, yes, we certainly all want best
results. That is in all of our best interests, as you
emphasized in your opening statement.
I would like to ask you, one of the objections that I have
had over the past is that when really difficult issues come in
front of the EPA that could result, as we saw during the Obama
administration, drastic job losses and a lot of economic
downturn in a particular area, that you would, and you and your
agency would come, and come to where the biggest impacts are
going to be, to the people that--this was not done in the past.
As I said, it still stings. It is not right.
I know you have a history of this in North Carolina. If you
could pledge to me that you will continue that as an
Administrator, that would be good news for us.
Mr. Regan. Absolutely. In North Carolina, I realized very
quickly that we could not solve the State's problems by sitting
behind a desk in Raleigh. I visited 90 out of our 100 counties
in the State of North Carolina. Would have hit all 100 but for
COVID. I think I have pledged to you, many of you, that I have
spoken with, that I do plan to respond to the invitation to
visit, to spend time in your States, with your communities, so
that we can have the best understanding of how the decisions we
make will impact you all on the ground.
Senator Capito. Is it your understanding that the President
intends to come back with a new version of the Clean Power
Plan?
Mr. Regan. It is my understanding that we have to take a
look at what was the plans for the Clean Power Plan and what
were the plans for the ACE rule. The reality is that it
presents a significant opportunity for the Environmental
Protection Agency to take a clean slate and look at how do we
best move forward. There are lots and lots of, I would say,
examples of success and failure that we have seen in past
tries.
So I look forward to having an opportunity to do a few
things. No. 1, to not look backward, but to look forward. No.
2, to convene all parties relevant to this discussion and think
about how we harness the power and the statutory authority of
the Clean Air Act in concert with major investments that we
should see governmentwide, and the input and the statements
from those who will be impacted by any particular actions we
take, whether that be a rulemaking or whether that be
voluntary.
Senator Capito. Thank you. That ends my 5 minutes. I would
say, I would be interested in maybe a follow up question on
whether you think that means that we would go beyond the fence
or not. That is a more difficult question.
Senator Carper.
Senator Carper. Madam Chair, if it is OK with you, I am
going to yield to other colleagues. I am not in a hurry.
Thanks.
Senator Capito. Senator Inhofe.
Senator Inhofe. Well, first of all, thank you very much. I
have had the honor to visit with Michael Regan and have heard
all kinds of good things about him. I think we are going to get
along real well.
I told him during our introductory discussion how well I
got along with particularly Lisa Jackson, when she was in the
Obama administration. In fact, she liked me so well, and I
liked her so well, that we spent a lot of time together. She
even still today has my Christmas card picture of my kids on
her wall. So we want to have that kind of relationship with
you, and I think that is going to happen.
I have four things I just want to mention. There won't be
time to cover them, so I won't be asking for a lot in specific
responses. One is on the Green New Deal. I hear all kinds of
extreme interpretations as to what does that mean, things like
banning fossil fuels, banning air travel, controlling how much
beef we can eat, and all these things. And the cost would be
about $93 trillion, that I believe is accurate.
But the other thing that affects me parochially is it is
war on fossil fuels. That was behind us, I thought for a while.
It looks like it may be coming back. So what I would like to
ask of you, Michael, is that you sit down with me and other
members of this Committee and talk over the different aspects
of what is alleged to be the Green New Deal and what it really
is going to mean in terms of putting it together.
I agree with Senator Tillis that you are someone who
listens, and you want to be fair. I think that would be a fair
thing to do. What do you think?
Mr. Regan. I can pledge to you that I will move forward the
way I have in North Carolina, which is using the power to
convene, to bring everyone to the table.
I would like to say that President Biden has his own
ambitious climate plan, one that we believe harnesses the full
power of Government, but not only looks at regulations that
will come from EPA, but investment strategies that come from
the broader Government. So I look forward to engaging with you
and your colleagues on how we execute on the President's vision
for an ambitious climate goal.
Senator Inhofe. That is very fair. Now, the second of the
four things I wanted to bring up have to do with the WOTUS
bill. Back during the Obama administration, they had the WOTUS
bill, and it was essentially, for those who might be new on
this Committee, and not familiar with what the meant, it is the
water regulation that would be transferred from the States to
the Federal Government; it is something that the American Farm
Bureau and all the agricultural organizations had done as its
major concern at that time.
Then along came President Trump and changed that, added a
new rule that I thought was working quite well. My question on
that one would be, can we have a chance to talk about that?
Because that issue is going to be the one, and politically, I
have to say this too, it is one that everyone ought to be
concerned about, because that is the No. 1 issue in accordance
with most.
The third thing I want to bring up is on pipelines. I
noticed that you approved a permit for the Atlantic Coast
Pipeline. You denied a permit for the Mountain Valley Pipeline.
Maybe for the record, in writing, you can come back and
distinguish between the two of them and what your feelings are
about pipelines.
And last, I wanted to mention the Small Refinery
Exemptions. Now, in my State of Oklahoma, the Clean Air Act
exempts small refineries faced with ``disproportionate economic
hardship from the costly renewable fuel standards.'' The action
I would like to ask for you would be, the U.S. Supreme Court
has already taken up the case of HollyFrontier v. the EPA,
which would seem logical to me that before establishing any
real policies concerning small refinery exemptions, it might be
a good idea to get the response from the U.S. Supreme Court on
that case. What do you think?
Mr. Regan. I think that is one way to go. The one thing I
know I have to do is consult with our general counsel,
understand where we are in the legal process. And also
understand, what options do we have to continue conversations.
I think that the courts will give us some ruling.
But I also don't want to lose the opportunity to take a
look at what we have learned with the Obama era Waters of the
U.S. and the Trump era Waters of the U.S. As a State secretary,
I have been on the receiving end of both. I have had
conversations with farmers about both. And I think that we do
have a clear opportunity to look at how we protect our water
quality while not overburdening our small farmers.
So while we are looking at all of our opportunities through
the legal system, I don't want litigation to stifle what we can
come up with as stakeholders having a conversation. So I look
forward to working with you on that.
Senator Inhofe. I look forward to it. Thank you.
Mr. Regan. Thank you.
Senator Capito. Senator Carper.
Senator Carper. I will yield.
Senator Capito. All right, Senator Cramer.
Senator Cramer. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Regan, for being willing to run the gauntlet
and step up in this way. Congratulations to you,
congratulations to your family. It is great that you can be
here. It means a lot to him and it means a lot to us as well.
So thank you for that.
I appreciate very much the time you took with me on the
phone. I appreciate very much your reference to stakeholders
often. That is a good sign. When we talked a few weeks ago, as
you recall, I was a fellow regulator, I spent nearly 10 years
as an environmental regulator before coming to Congress in an
elected position.
In the nomination acceptance speech, while today you have
referenced stakeholders you also referenced the importance of
States. Of course, being a former State regulator, you would do
that. You reiterated your desire to support States, and not
dictate to them. And of course, States are some of the most
important stakeholders in this new job.
I welcome that, because I spend a lot of time talking about
cooperative federalism around here, the lack of it over the
decades and centuries, in many cases. I am just wondering, to
this point, and I know it is early in the Administration, but I
haven't seen a lot of cooperation coming from the White House.
I have seen a lot of executive orders. We have seen a lot of
dictates. In fact, things like the lease prohibitions on
deposits on Federal lands, in the case of the XL pipeline,
those aren't directly under EPA jurisdiction.
But none of the States affected were ever consulted before
the President signed those executive orders. I want to hear
from you how you will be different than what we are seeing so
far.
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question, Senator. I too
enjoyed the conversations that you and I had about the balance
of State and Federal Government interaction.
I see the executive orders as setting goals, and setting
vision. But in those executive orders, they leave plenty of
room for how these things will be implemented. The reality is
that these Cabinet agencies will be implementing and executing
these visions.
So we have a ton of time, in my opinion, to aim for these
goals, but massage the processes by which we will achieve those
goals. I want to do what I have done in North Carolina, and
done, I believe, fairly well, which is convene the stakeholders
that will be impacted by these decisions, look at the
rulemaking processes, look at the voluntary actions, harness
the power of our private sector who are creating these jobs,
and following the trends of the market to think through, what
are the proper actions we can take collectively to meet and
possibly exceed the goals of these executive orders.
So I think the substance and the crux of how we execute on
these executive orders rely or reside in these Cabinet
agencies. I look forward to having conversations with you, your
staff, and others on how we get there.
Senator Cramer. I appreciate that. I think we are going to
have a lot of good discussions, quite honestly. I am grateful
for your sentiments.
I was thinking specifically in a later round or maybe even
over coffee sometime we will talk more about things like the
methane rule, for example, that tends to--the one size fits all
methane rule tends to disqualify States that already have
methane rules. It is an important, I think, area of some
exploration. It is a specific case study.
There are a lot of those, we have heard already, we have
talked some already about Waters of the U.S., Clean Power Plan.
And as you know from your previous experience at EPA, both
these rules under the Obama administration faced serious legal
hurdles. In North Dakota, I had one of the most successful
WOTUS challenges with 11 other States in litigation, and joined
West Virginia in its Clean Power Plan case.
Based on your reviews of those cases, obviously you know
them well, do you think that the rules had some shortcomings,
and if so, what were they?
Mr. Regan. One of the things I have always pledged is I
would follow the science and follow the law. The courts have
obviously had their opinions about these laws.
I will say, there are two ways I look at this. As a former
State regulatory, the lack of certainty and the litigation has
been very painful for us who are trying to get the business of
our States done. So that is the downside. The upside is, as
Administrator, I have the ability to look back at what we have
learned, and what worked, and what didn't. We can apply those
lessons learned to how we are going to move forward.
So I am grateful that we have sort of worked out some of
those kinks, and we understand where the limits of the law are.
It is my desire to follow the law, not exceed my statutory
authority. I believe with the proper stakeholder engagement, I
think that we can forge a path forward. I look forward to that.
Senator Cramer. I look forward to continuing the discussion
in round two. Thank you.
Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator Cramer.
Remotely, Senator Cardin.
Senator Cardin. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Regan, I enjoyed our conversation that we had. I want
to follow up on my favorite subject, which is the Chesapeake
Bay. As I had a chance to talk to you about the Chesapeake Bay,
it is the largest estuary in our hemisphere. It has been
declared a national treasure by the last several
Administrations. And it is challenged in regard to
environmental need.
Under the Obama administration, we had a special assistant
for the Chesapeake Bay that was referred to as the Chesapeake
Bay czar, that acted as a point person to deal with
administering the Federal program under the EPA for the
Chesapeake Bay, a program which has been funded by Congress and
increased the authorization and funding in the last couple of
Congresses. So we have been supporting this.
But having a special assistant that can coordinate not just
the activities within the Environmental Protection Agency, but
the other Federal agencies that play such a critical role in
our plan to restore the quality of the Chesapeake Bay, the
Department of Agriculture, the Army Corps of Engineers, and
I've talked about some of the other programs that are involved.
So I would like to get your cooperation on how you will
administer the Chesapeake Bay program, considering reinstating
the special assistant, so that we can have a focal point in EPA
working with the other agencies to advance the Chesapeake Bay
program, a program that is supported by six States and many
stakeholders, and which the Federal Government really operates
as an independent referee in regard to our efforts to deal with
the Chesapeake Bay. Can we work together on this, and will you
consider appointing a special assistant?
Mr. Regan. I thank you for that question, Senator Cardin.
During my first stint at EPA, when I lived in this area for
about 10 years, I learned first hand that the Chesapeake Bay is
indeed a national treasure. So you do have my commitment that
we will look for the resources, all the resources that we can
bring to bear, to protect the Chesapeake Bay.
Senator Cardin. Thank you for that. I hope that you will
appoint a special assistant, because I think that is critically
important in coordinating this.
I will just give you a couple examples. We have recently,
about ready to complete our environmental restoration project
that deals with disposal of dredged material at Poplar Island,
which has been a win-win situation. It has received the
dredging material as well as restoring a previously livable
island, it has now been restored as an environmental project.
We need to move forward with the second of these plans, Mid
Bay, the Army Corps has given a green light for that and we are
going to be moving ahead with it.
My point is this. That part of the Chesapeake Bay program
that needs to be coordinated with the Environmental Protection
Agency. We have oyster restoration, as I am sure you are aware.
The oysters are critically important to filtering the
pollutants out of the Bay. The historic crop on the Chesapeake
Bay is a fraction of what it was 100 year ago. So we have had a
very active oyster restoration program in both Virginia and
Maryland.
Funding comes from various agencies. But it is important
that the EPA act and help us in making sure all the pieces come
together, so that we can meet our commitment under the 2025
deadline.
So are you prepared to advocate on behalf of the
Environmental Protection Agency with other agencies in order so
we can achieve our goals under the Chesapeake Bay program?
Mr. Regan. Thank you, Senator. I am. I am committed to
advocating so that we meet those goals. I am committed to
looking at how we have adequate resources to achieve those
goals.
I can tell you what I am actually doing now. I have been
successful in prioritizing an agricultural czar or advisor, an
environmental justice advisor. And I am now looking into our
resources for the potential for someone to coordinate on the
Chesapeake Bay. The previous Administration and budget process
has not been kind to EPA. So we are being creative as to where
we can get the resources to do that.
What I can assure you is, we have adequate resources to
execute on our obligation to protect the Chesapeake Bay, and we
are looking for additional resources to hire that coordinator
to ensure that we hit all of our targets on time.
Senator Cardin. I think I might want to flip on ahead, that
is what I wanted to hear.
I will just mention one last thing in closing, that is that
with plans, that we do need you to be aggressive in making sure
all States carry out their commitments. We depend upon each
State carrying its own load. We have had some challenges with
some of our States.
We hope that you will be aggressive in working with us. It
is a ground up program. But we do need the Federal Government
to come in where needed to make sure that we all do what we can
with best science.
So thank you very much, and thank you for your willingness
to serve in this critically important position.
Mr. Regan. Thank you, sir.
Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator.
I am going to go to Senate Whitehouse now, and then we will
get back to one Republican, one Democrat. I kind of got us a
little bit out of order there.
Senator Whitehouse, are you on?
Senator Whitehouse. Yes, I am.
Senator Capito. Thanks.
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman Capito. I
appreciate it.
Secretary Regan, welcome to the EPW Committee, not for your
last time, I hope.
A couple of things. First of all, please be advised that
the Chesapeake Bay is not the only bay on the East Coast. There
is a little State called Delaware that we might have some
interest in that has a Delaware Bay. Those of us from further
north are very excited about the clean, clear waters of
sparkling Narragansett Bay. So I appreciate your interest in
the Chesapeake, but let's make sure we think of all the bays.
You mentioned earlier on in the hearing that it would be
your policy, don't look backward. I just want to warn you about
that. You would be coming into an agency that in my view was
more or less captured by the fossil fuel industry, agency
capture, administrative capture, is something people have
talked about for years. I think this is a particularly flagrant
example that we witnessed of agency capture.
I think it left a trail of damage to the institution. It
left a trail of conflicts of interest, particularly on the
scientific advisory groups. It left a trail of rulemaking
thrown out for pretty patent violations of administrative law.
It left a trail of FOIA failures and QFRs unanswered.
I suspect you will find a good deal more when you get in,
as people come forward and are prepared to describe things that
took place in the previous Administration and maybe even some
who couldn't bear it and left might very well come back with
some stories.
I think if you are the captain of a ship that has sustained
some serious damage, you can't just look forward. You have to
look at the ship. And you have to make sure that you have done
a damage control assessment and know where the damage is and
have a plan to repair it. Otherwise, you are never going to
perform at the levels that you should. And your operating folks
are not going to be able to focus on moving forward, because
they will be all tangled up in trying to undo the messes that
you haven't paid attention to.
So I am interested, if you could explain a little bit more,
what you meant by don't look backward.
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question, Senator. I think
that is sort of a metaphor for visioning. I think that we have
to be optimistic and look forward in terms of all that we
believe we can accomplish, and that the future is bright.
Obviously you raise a really good point, a point that I
have practical experience in. When I inherited the Department
of Environmental Quality in 2017, morale was low, decisions had
been made that we didn't believe were transparent and didn't
bring forth the proper science and data.
So we did have to do a damage assessment. We had to take a
look at what had been done, what had not been done. And we
quickly had to rectify those situations and begin to move
forward.
We have a short amount of time. So we are going to have to
walk and chew gum at the same time. My goal is to do an
assessment to determine how can we best move forward, learn
from the past, but stay leaning forward as we solve some of
these complex issues. There are a lot of staff at EPA right now
doing a reevaluation of a ton of rules and activities that may
or may not have been done in a transparent manner or leveraged
science the way we have liked.
So we are going to correct that. We are going to correct
that, then we are going to begin to carry this country forward.
Senator Whitehouse. Well, I am going to ask you two things
in that context. One is, I have written quite a lot about the
problems at EPA. I will find, with my team, one of the either
comments or briefs that I have written, and I will just send
one to you so that you have a sense of where I have seen this
agency go. I would ask that you read it before our vote, just
so that I can know you have seen how I feel about this.
The second thing is that I will be coming at you, as will
other Senators, with questions. We would really like to see the
questions answered. Where we have been stonewalled on questions
in the prior Administration, we would like that backlog of
questions cleared. On FOIAs that have been stonewalled, we
would like that backlog cleared as well. I think if you are
talking about transparency, you are going to have to make a
particular effort to tear down the stone wall that surrounded
the fossil fuel fortress at EPA in the last 4 years.
I hope very much you will agree to read the thing that I
send you and be as cooperative as the law permits in answering
our questions, particularly our backed up questions.
Mr. Regan. Absolutely, Senator. Thank you for that
question. You have my commitment that, No. 1, myself and our
staff will read all documents sent to us by this body. No. 2,
it is an obligation of all of us as public servants to be as
transparent as possible to this body and to the public as we
look at information and develop decisions for moving forward.
So you have my commitment to read those materials. You have
my commitment for transparency. And you have my commitment as a
very strong partner in how we move forward.
Senator Whitehouse. Last thing, the Clean Power Plan
proposal by the Obama EPA has been thrown out by the court.
You, as you have said, now have a clean slate to go forward. I
am hoping that as you look at the problem of large scale
emitters, whether they are industrial emitters or utility
emitters, you will take a look at carbon capture technology,
which has moved enormously forward in the years since the
original Obama Clean Power Plan.
I would note for you that Chair Capito and I, who have
rather different views about climate issues and fossil fuel
emissions and so forth, have worked together along with a lot
of other colleagues in a very bipartisan support for carbon
capture technologies, including an expansion of 45Q in the last
bill that we passed in bipartisan fashion in the last Congress.
So I am hoping that you will take a hard look and make sure
that people on your staff have the technical support necessary
to understand whether carbon capture is a best available
control technology for carbon emissions, which are a pollutant
under the Clean Air Act. As long as you have people looking at
that and giving it a fair and honest look, that is all I ask
right now.
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question, Senator. You have
my commitment to look and determine the commercial viability of
carbon capture sequestration. I can tell you that I have
already had conversations with Jennifer Granholm at DOE and
others.
There are lots of resources that we can pour, in terms of
research and development, to make sure that carbon capture
sequestration and storage is on the table. And one of the
benefits we have of starting fresh is over the past couple of
years, we have seen enormous strides in technological
advancements. The good people at EPA are ready to take
advantage of what we have learned from the past rules and what
we have gained in terms of technological advancements.
So we are excited about charting this new course.
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Senator Capito. I am
probably out of time.
Senator Capito. You are probably out of time, by a lot.
[Laughter.]
Senator Capito. Thanks.
Senator Braun.
Senator Braun. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I share that same enthusiasm as Senator Whitehouse, and
have a tendency maybe to go a little over time myself now and
then. But I will try to keep it within the 5 minutes.
I enjoyed our robust conversation we had last week. It was
a lot of common ground in terms of especially being open minded
in terms of how we view such an important issue as the
environment and climate in general.
I am the founder of the Senate Climate Caucus on the
Republican side, and we now have seven members on each side of
the aisle weighing in.
Over the last year, I think what has amazed me most, I
think I shared it with you when we spoke last week, was the
broad array of interests in terms of weighing in. I was
surprised in the business community that it goes beyond just
agriculture, transportation, energy production. Almost
everyone, I think, wants to be part of it. I think one of the
defining points of view would be how do we do it and how do we
pay for it. That subject hardly ever comes up on anything we
talk about here in a way that is really meaningful, that
addresses it up front.
Where do you stand on trying to take innovation and
technology, that would have a recent reference to what we have
done with vaccinations addressing the COVID challenge? Look
what was accomplished there by really galvanizing a kind of
innovation maybe already in motion, and to do so quickly,
accomplish a result that is going to probably be what puts that
in the rearview mirror. Tell me how you think we do that as
opposed to maybe the approach up to this point that has been
more costly, which has been a highly regulatory approach.
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question. In North Carolina,
I will say what we did was, we took a look at regulations. No.
1, we wanted the regulations to be flexible enough, or the
interpretation of the regulations to be flexible enough to
allow for innovation. We can't achieve our goals without a very
strong public-private partnership. We know that our private
partnerships are really on the cusp and drive the markets.
So my strategy has always been engage our private sector
counterparts, take a look at the intent of the regulation and
the law, ensure that there aren't too many administrative
burdens, and look at what can be gained, if we can find
efficiencies in the execution and implementation of those
regulations.
One of the things that pained me the most in North
Carolina, and I think I am going to have the same problem at
EPA, is the stripping of the budgets don't prevent an agency
from writing a regulation; it prevents an agency from providing
technical expertise and experience to our stakeholders who we
want to see drive innovation while achieving those
environmental goals.
So my pledge is to be as collaborative as possible while
developing any regulations that might be needed, looking out
for those administrative burdens, and then having our agency as
partners as we execute on the implementation of those
regulations. But I do believe that regulation is not the sole
answer.
So I will be partnering with my counterparts at the
Department of Energy, Department of Agriculture, Department of
Defense, all of which I have already talked to in terms of how
do we solve some of these complex problems that we are facing.
Senator Braun. Second question, I think we discussed it a
little bit last week as well, would be the global
responsibility in terms of tackling the issue of climate change
and how we turn it around, how we pay for it. What is your
feeling in terms of that approach of thinking that we need to
do even more on our end when we are of the larger economies,
the one that has emissions headed in the right direction? How
will that thought of getting the rest of the world involved,
especially doing more than saying they are going to do
something, making in the way that you can weigh in tell places
like China, Russia, India that yes, you are putting these goals
and statements out there, but your actions show otherwise?
Whenever that occurs, that means we are disproportionately
paying for things again, when that is probably the weakest
part, what we bring to the equation now is our Federal balance
sheet and our ability to do more until we get that in order.
Please comment on that.
Mr. Regan. Thank you, Senator. It is an excellent question.
That is a question that requires partnership. That is not going
to be driven solely by regulation.
I think that what we are trying to do, the President's
aggressive climate plan looks at capturing the market so that
we are globally competitive.
In North Carolina, as Secretary, Senator Tillis mentioned
when he was speaker of the house he was a really strong
proponent of a balanced approach for solar energy. North
Carolina is now second in solar installation in the country.
What we find is most of the parts that we want to install
come from China. We are finding that if we don't capture the
market, we are going to fall behind. I believe that is the same
for solar, it is for cars, there is a lot that we can capture
in terms of manufacturing and the like to remain globally
competitive.
So what I believe you are seeing, with the President's
approach, is not the country skating to where the puck is, I
will borrow from Wayne Gretsky, we are trying to skate to where
we believe that puck is going to be. And if we can design
regulations that are complementary to the types of investments
in research and development that we need to harness the power
of the private sector and create new jobs. I believe that this
country will be a global leader, and other countries will
follow.
Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Merkley.
Senator Merkley. Thank you, Mr. Regan. I wanted to start by
asking if you were familiar with the Presidential Plastics
Action plan that some 500 environmental groups have put
together.
Mr. Regan. Yes, vaguely.
Senator Merkley. OK. Would you consider a commitment to
take a very close look at it?
Mr. Regan. Absolutely. We will take a close look at it. We
will evaluate EPA's role, and we will partner with you on
advancing that.
Senator Merkley. Thank you. There is a whole lot that can
be done. We have a challenge from plastics in a couple of ways.
One is that the production of plastics produces a tremendous
amount of greenhouses gases. And second is plastic, when it is
through with its single life, is rarely recycled. We have that
slogan about recycling, but in fact, a more accurate slogan
would be it is either burned or it is buried or it is borne to
sea where it causes all sorts of environmental problems,
including in the rivers, and our oceans.
Do you agree that this is a significant challenge that we
need to work and take on?
Mr. Regan. I do agree that it is a significant challenge
when we look at the role of plastics, especially the impacts
that we have seen with our marine life and our coastal
communities.
Senator Merkley. We see it very much in Oregon's coastal
community. I know you see it from the other side of the
country. It creates all sorts of issues.
The EPA has an environmentally preferable purchasing
program where they have the power to set an example and help
introduce potentially more sustainable products in place of
single use plastics. Will you take a look at that program and
the possibility of EPA using that as an opportunity to show
what can be done to replace single use plastics with more
sustainable products?
Mr. Regan. Absolutely, Senator. Where there is a program at
EPA and where we have an opportunity to be a global leader, we
will do an evaluation and we will put our shoulder to that
wheel.
Senator Merkley. I want to turn to the topic of asbestos.
Most nations in the world have banned asbestos for all the
reasons that we are familiar with. In 2016, we took another
stab at this by passing in a bipartisan fashion the Lautenberg
Toxic Substances Control Act, or TSCA, the Lautenberg version
of that.
Not much action has happened since 2016. In December, so
just over a month ago, there was finally a part one risk
evaluation done at EPA. And it did find that there were
unreasonable risks of cancer.
But the Science Advisory Committee that looked at the work
of EPA said, wow, you didn't consider all the asbestos fibers,
you didn't consider all the different asbestos diseases, you
didn't look at all the different routes and pathways of
exposure. So you really did a very minimal job not capturing
the full impact.
Would you consider having the EPA redo that part one
evaluation to try to get this right and use the best science to
really see what the risk is to human health?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question, Senator. I
absolutely will work with my staff to take a look at that
evaluation, determine where those data and science gaps are,
and then govern ourselves accordingly moving forward.
You have my pledge that as we take a look at all of these,
No. 1, the processes that we undertake will be much more
transparent. No. 2, we will use the latest science and the
latest data. No. 3, our results should be supported by the
science and by the law.
So you have my commitment to do that.
Senator Merkley. Thank you.
One of the things that we notice so often, different
facilities are located near low income communities, communities
of color, and it has a disproportionate impact, our
manufacturing system, on the health of low income communities
or communities of color. In this sense there are a lot of
issues of environmental justice. Do you feel that you are
pretty well read into that set of challenges and have some
ideas on how to tackle it?
Mr. Regan. I will say that I am very enthusiastic about the
President's commitment to environmental justice and equity. It
is something that I have spent a lot of my career on.
My first stint at EPA was focused on environmental justice
and equity issues. I established the first environmental
justice and equity advisory board in the State of North
Carolina, bridging environmentalism and civil rights to find
solutions for our fence line of disproportionately impacted
communities.
There is some work that we have to do at EPA to take a look
at restructuring and making sure that we have adequate
resources to address environmental justice. So not only do I
look forward to structuring EPA so that we can adequately
respond, but I look forward to partnering with you and Congress
so that we can be sure that where we have gaps in our laws and
regulations, that we can rectify that so that we are ensuring
all Americans have access to clean air, clean water, and clean
environments to live in.
Senator Merkley. I am running out of time.
Madam Chairman, I will just close by saying that the
biggest challenge testing human civilization is whether we can
tackle climate chaos. I know you are well familiar with the
issue, and I look forward to working with you on that endeavor.
Mr. Regan. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Regan, congratulations on the nomination.
Despite calls for unity during his inauguration speech,
President Biden took immediate, damaging, and divisive action.
He canceled the Keystone XL Pipeline, and with it thousands of
good jobs, some union jobs, some non-union jobs. But thousands
of good jobs.
He has threatened tens of thousands of jobs in my home
State of Wyoming and across the country when he halted oil,
gas, and coal leasing on Federal lands. He ceded American
environmental and economic independence to the European Union
and China when he rejoined the Paris Climate Accord. And he
opened the door to revisiting some of the most economically
devastating regulations from the Obama era, like Waters of the
United States, the disastrous Clean Power Plan, and many more.
It does seem that with every campaign promise that he
delivers, President Biden is also delivering pink slips to
hardworking men and women in Wyoming and across the country.
Despite the dizzying pace of the President's job killing
executive actions, many on the other side believe that he
should do more, and do it more quickly. Senator Schumer said
that the other day on the floor. Some believe the President
should immediately declare a climate emergency. Such a
declaration, of course, would silence Congress, would silence
States and the American people during one of the most
consequential discussions and decisions of our time.
I think it sidelines workers, industry, families who are
already struggling to make ends meet during these difficult
times.
So the question for you is, do you believe the President
should circumvent Congress and the will of the American people
by declaring a climate emergency?
Mr. Regan. I do believe that we are facing a dire situation
with climate change and impacts. But I don't think that is to
negate the fact that we all understand the anxiety and the fear
as we make this transition that folks in your States have, and
States like West Virginia and North Carolina and other States.
What I believe is that the President has an aggressive
agenda that looks at the whole of Government. What I know is we
have been instructed that we are not to leave any community
behind. In order for us to be successful, every State and every
community has to see itself in our vision.
I would be careful and never say, we are looking at clean
jobs. We are looking at all jobs. Many of these jobs should
transition as we look forward to protecting ourselves from
climate change and the climate change impacts.
So I look forward to working with you on how we ensure that
we don't leave any communities behind, and that as we invest in
our infrastructure, whether that is our grid, our water
infrastructure, whether we invest in pipelines that are
leaking, transportation, bridges, that we do that in a way
where we are consulting your constituents, so that we can
adequately address this climate change while growing as many
jobs as possible.
Senator Barrasso. Well, I appreciate that answer, because
former Senator John Kerry has said that people who are working
in the industries in Wyoming, they need to make better choices.
It is interesting that a Washington Post fact checker also
referred to his comments as being misleading and providing
false hope. The Secretary of Energy nominee, she talked about
jobs being sacrificed. So I appreciate your comments on the
jobs and the focus there.
I want to talk about small refineries. Unlike large oil
refineries, the small refineries don't have the economies of
scale to comply with our Nation's biofuel mandate, the
renewable fuels standard. That is why Congress allows small
refineries to petition the EPA for what is known as hardship
relief. This has been going on, and this is in law.
Before deciding whether to grant relief, the Administrator
of the EPA, by law, is required to consult with the Secretary
of Energy. Now, under the last two Administrations, Federal
courts have rebuked EPA and the Department of Energy both for
failing to account for all of the challenges that small
refineries face under the RFS. So if confirmed, will you ensure
that the EPA fully accounts for the challenges that small
refineries face when evaluating these hardship relief
petitions?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for the question, Senator.
If I am confirmed, I commit that we will fully follow the
law. And I commit that we will fully be transparent. I am not
certain that either side understands how these decisions were
arrived to. So I think it is very important that we have
transparency, that we use sound science, and follow the law in
a deliberative process by which we communicate with you all so
that you understand the decisions that we make.
Senator Barrasso. Madam Chairman, I have some additional
questions. But with your permission, I will submit those in
writing.
Senator Capito. Sounds good. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Gillibrand.
Senator Gillibrand. Thank you so much, Madam Chairwoman,
for this hearing.
Secretary Regan, thank you for testifying today and for
your willingness to serve as our EPA Administrator. The EPA
does a lot of work to restore its mission to protect human
health and the environment. I know you will have many
priorities on your plate once you are confirmed.
One area that I hope to prioritize is the PFAS chemicals. I
am grateful that President Biden included PFAS in his Build
Back Better plan, and his Administration has an opportunity to
make real progress in reducing people's exposure to this very
toxic chemical.
As we discussed when we spoke a few weeks ago, I have been
working on bipartisan legislation with Senator Capito that
would require EPA to set standards under the Safe Drinking
Water Act for PFAS. Just days before the end of the previous
Administration, the EPA under Administrator Wheeler issued a
regulatory determination to begin the process for setting
drinking water standards for PFAS. However, in my view, the
previous Administration did not move with the sense of urgency
that we need on this issue.
So my first question is this. Will you make PFAS an agency-
wide priority at the EPA, so that more time is not wasted while
families continue to be exposed and harmed by these very toxic
chemicals?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question, Senator Gillibrand.
You and I and Senator Capito know all too well the devastating
impacts to our States by the lack of action on behalf of the
EPA. PFAS, PFOA, perfluorinated compounds, will be a top
priority for this Administration.
We will pursue discharge limits. We will pursue water
quality values. We will pursue all avenues that we can while we
are developing these rulemaking processes, to give the proper
signals to States, so that States can take the appropriate
actions, like we have had to take in North Carolina.
Senator Gillibrand. Will that include setting a drinking
water standard for PFAS?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for the question, Senator. What I plan
to do is sit down and spend some time with the staff at EPA,
with our counsel, to understand the multiple avenues I believe
we have at our fingertips to address PFAS.
Senator Gillibrand. Thank you. You are one of the first
State environmental leaders to regulate industrial discharges
of PFAS. I know it is an important issue.
It has been estimated that there could be 2,500
manufacturing facilities discharging PFAS into the air and
water across the country. I have authored legislation in the
Senate to regulate PFAS under the Clean Water Act which would
require industrial discharges to be subject to permitting and
pre-treatment standards.
Given your experience at the State level, what is your
vision on how EPA should approach industrial PFAS pollution in
order to prevent more PFAS from entering the environment in the
first place?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question. I think there is a
lot of wisdom in the vision and the direction that you are
headed. We need to have a full accounting of how these forever
chemicals are entering into our water, as well as our air. So I
think we need to take a look at the discharge of PFAS from a
water quality standpoint. I think we need to take a very strong
look at the emissions that are coming from the combustion and
incineration of products that yield PFAS into our atmosphere.
I can commit to you that on day one, that this is and will
be a priority for this Administration to set limits on how much
of this chemical compound is entering into our air and our
water.
Senator Gillibrand. Thank you. One more question. Another
area that we have previously discussed which is very important
to my State is the continuation of EPA's geographic programs,
in particular, the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative and the
Long Island Sound Study. Both of these programs have been
essential to improving water quality, including harmful
pollution. We have had bipartisan success over the past several
years in sustaining and growing these programs. I hope that
under the Biden administration, these programs will have the
full support of the EPA and the Administration as a whole.
Will you support robust funding to continue these
important, effective programs?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for the question. We will pursue the
adequate funding, robust funding, to support these regional and
State programs. Again, it is my belief that the Federal
Government should provide support to our regions and our States
who know their constituents much better than the Federal
Government ever could.
Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, and thank you, Madam
Chairwoman.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Senator Sullivan.
Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Regan, congratulations on your nomination.
I want to follow on where Senator Barrasso was going. I
have been very concerned about the initial executive orders
coming out of the White House. As a matter of fact, I led a
letter with 25 Senators, so over one-quarter of the entire U.S.
Senate, to the President asking for a meeting on his plans
particularly as they related to energy related jobs.
I am really concerned when you see John Kerry, Gina
McCarthy, who are at the White House already setting policy. I
know that the Chair has expressed concerns about who is going
to be in charge. I think it should be you, since you are going
to be Senate confirmed, if you are confirmed, not two
unconfirmed officials who are clearly taking the reins.
But when John Kerry talked about, well, President Biden
wants to make sure that folks have better choices, like solar
panels. I talked to my leadership in Alaska, union leaders. A,
they find that attitude very condescending, cavalier, we are
going to kill a bunch of good oil and gas jobs so we can tell
you what is better.
Can you talk to my constituents about how you believe, or
what is your thought on the policies that right now appear to
be killing jobs, good jobs, during a recession, with nothing to
replace them? There is no solar jobs, as John Kerry says, in my
State, when the risks of hundreds if not thousands of jobs are
going to be going away in the oil and gas sector. I would like
your views on this.
Mr. Regan. Thank you for the question, Senator. It is my
belief and firm understanding, to answer the question who is in
charge, President Biden is in charge. I think he has
assembled----
Senator Sullivan. Yes, I get that. I understand. Sorry to
interrupt you. But if you are confirmed, who is going to be in
charge below President Biden?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that. If I am confirmed, then I
believe Congress has bestowed certain powers and authorities
and accountability to me as the Secretary of EPA.
Senator Sullivan. I would agree with that.
Mr. Regan. So where the decisions are in EPA's purview, I
can assure you that I will be leading and making those
decisions. I will be accepting the accountability for those
decisions.
I believe that the executive order that the President
issued to pause the new sale of oil and gas leases doesn't
impact the 90 percent of oil and gas activities that are
occurring currently. So the role of EPA is really to work with
you, to work with your constituents, to work with the industry
to look at a rule that would be best structured to reduce the
methane emissions that are coming from those activities.
Senator Sullivan. Let me ask you this. In this sector,
though, you are going to have a lot of power. Do you think it
is a good idea to be killing any jobs when we are in this major
recession?
Chuck Schumer is talking about a $2 trillion stimulus
package because of the high unemployment rate. The President of
the United States, in his first week in office, is putting
thousands of people out of work.
Is that a good idea? Do you support that?
Mr. Regan. I don't think it is a good idea to kill jobs. I
think it is a good idea to ensure that we are transitioning the
economy toward where we know the jobs will be.
Senator Sullivan. OK, but if there aren't jobs to be
transitioned--this is my whole problem. This is why we want to
talk to the President. Right now they look like they are
putting forward a strategy that will crush jobs, lower the
amount of energy we produce, and the only replacement is no
jobs in this sector, and importing more oil and gas from
countries like Russia and Venezuela. It is a policy that makes
no sense.
Help me again on the jobs.
Mr. Regan. I think when we look at the jobs, we are looking
at the full breadth of what the President intends, which are
major investments immediately in infrastructure, infrastructure
in terms of making sure that the pipes that we have are not
leaky and are reducing the climate impact, making sure that we
invest in our water quality, water sewer, water infrastructure,
looking at a more intelligent grid, looking at roads and
bridges.
I believe that many of the jobs and the skill sets that
people have in your State and other States can move quickly to
those jobs while we also look at the advancements of other
research and development opportunities to position the very
communities that supported this country during the Industrial
Revolution----
Senator Sullivan. That is right.
Mr. Regan [continuing]. And made this country competitive.
There is a path, there is a vision----
Senator Sullivan. I am sorry, Madam Chair, just one final
follow up, because this is a really important topic.
The Secretary of Energy in her confirmation hearing kind of
indicated that ``some jobs may have to be sacrificed.'' Again,
we are in a deep recession. There are millions of people out of
work. These are some of the best jobs in the country, certainly
in my State.
These are, to your point, and I appreciate your raising
this, the men and women who built this country. Yet right now,
when you ask any of the union leaders, these are great union
jobs by the way, building trades, when you ask them, if you
lose an oil and gas job in Alaska, or in North Dakota or Texas,
what can you replace it with, jobs that would be sacrificed,
nobody has an answer. It is a strategy and a policy that makes
no sense, which is why we want to go see the President.
The White House press secretary said, sorry, the President
is not interested in meeting with one-quarter of the Senate on
the issue of jobs and energy. I hope he changes his mind, and
if you get confirmed, maybe you can convince this to talk about
this really important issue.
Mr. Regan. Thanks for the question, Senator. What I can
assure you is if I am confirmed, I will be sitting down with
you, hopefully by invitation in your State, talking to----
Senator Sullivan. We are going to get to round two, so
trust me, you are going to get that.
Mr. Regan. All right. Sounds good.
Senator Capito. Senator Booker.
Senator Carper. Madam Chairman, can I ask unanimous consent
to enter into the record statements to place, AFL-CIO Biden
executive order support letter into the record, and also a
statement to place the Forbes Obama job growth article into the
record? I ask unanimous consent.
Senator Capito. Without objection.
Senator Carper. Thank you.
[The referenced information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Sullivan. Madam Chair, I am sorry, can I submit
another letter to the record? Maybe I will do that on my--it is
a different letter from the Laborers International, the
Pipefitters, their statements on the jobs that have been killed
in the building trades that I think would be----
Senator Capito. You make that motion on your next round. If
you want to make it now?
Senator Sullivan. I would like to admit that for the
record.
Senator Capito. Without objection.
[The referenced information was not available at time of
print.]
Senator Capito. Senator Booker.
Senator Booker. Chairwoman, thank you, very, very much.
Mr. Regan, it is very good to see you here. I look forward
to, and am very excited to vote for you for confirmation.
I am really disturbed, I have traveled through this
country, was one of the founders here in the Senate of the
Environmental Justice Caucus, along with the soon to be
Chairman, and another one of my incredible colleagues, Tammy
Duckworth.
I took a journey through environmental justice issues from
toxic sites in my own State that have laid, languished, lead
problems facing my children. But I didn't stop there. I
traveled from Lowndes County, Alabama, and saw horrific
evidence of tropical diseases because of the sewage problems
there. I was in Duplin County, North Carolina, met with
activists there, who, one Vietnam veteran said, I left Vietnam,
came home, and I have been a prisoner in my own home because of
the massive corporate polluters in his State.
I have traveled over to a place in America, you just Google
it by calling it Cancer Alley along the Mississippi River, in
St. Johns Parish, where there are factories, I just stood there
and watched them and saw the air quality report, polluting the
air in these low income communities. In Uniontown, Alabama, I
could go on, to the places that I have gone in this country
where you have Americans being poisoned by environmental
injustices.
What made most of the communities I visited more galling,
most of them were low income communities, and most of them were
communities of color. I was surprised, I am a Senator from New
Jersey, I remember a Black church in Cancer Alley, packed full
of people, each of them coming up to talk about the numbers of
their family members that have died from cancer in that cancer
cluster. All packed together to see one Federal official. They
just said, they feel like nobody in the Federal Government
cares about them.
We live in this country that has such proud ideals, but we
have fallen so short. The No. 1 predictor, in fact, at this
point, of whether you are going to live around toxicity,
whether drink polluted water or breathe dirty air is the color
of your skin.
So I just want to ask you just point blank, you are, should
you be confirmed, going to be running an agency whose civil
rights division has been eviscerated over the years, where
people who look for you to help, you are not even equipped, in
my opinion, to actually begin to fight against these issues
that affect millions of Americans.
We talk about Flint, Michigan, there are at least 3,000
jurisdictions where children have more than twice the blood
lead levels of Flint, Michigan.
So if confirmed, will you make reforming and strengthening
the EPA's civil rights office a priority?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for the question and the statements,
Senator Booker. Environmental justice is something that is near
and dear to my heart. It has been a part of my career since I
started at the EPA the first time around.
I agree with you that the justice system in this country is
failing in a number of areas, including in the environmental
justice arena. What I plan to do, first and foremost, is find
the resources and establish an environmental justice advisor to
the Administrator.
The second thing we plan to do is look at a restructuring
and reorganization to be sure that our office of civil rights,
and we have had adequate staff from every media office that is
paying attention specifically to environmental injustice.
And No. 3, you all will hear from me frequently that we do
need, or will need, additional resources if we are to commit to
solving environmental injustice and equity issues.
In North Carolina, I established the first environmental
justice and equity advisory board, just because as government,
we think we know until we start to hear directly from the
community.
Senator Booker. I am going to pause there, because I do not
want to go the 8 or 9 minutes over that one of my colleagues
went. There is another group of people that are disregarded,
disrespected, discounted in our country, and that is
agriculture workers.
Last October, under the Trump administration, the EPA
finalized a rule to weaken the agriculture worker protection
standards, safeguards meant to protect farm workers, their
families, rural communities in general from the harms of toxic
pesticide exposure.
We know that these rollbacks will result in farm workers in
nearby communities being at greater risk of being accidentally
sprayed by pesticides. I have met with farm workers. I have
heard their stories. We know that chlorpyrifos, for example, is
a pesticide that Federal scientists have determined to be
highly dangerous for farm workers, and can cause brain damage
to the young children of these farm working families.
EPA scientists have twice recommended that the EPA ban the
use of this pesticide. Seven countries in the EU have banned
it.
So I want an affirmation from you that you will not render
farm workers in America invisible, that their cries for
justice, that the health of their children, that these people
who are an integral, indispensable part of our food systems,
will be treated with human dignity. Can I get an affirmation of
that?
Mr. Regan. Absolutely. You have my confirmation on that.
Senator Booker. And would you consider putting science
ahead of big business when it comes to the chemical
chlorpyrifos?
Mr. Regan. We will be driven by science, and we will be
driven by the rule of law.
Senator Booker. Then finally, one of the proudest members,
this is my last moment on this Committee, and I want to tell
you what an honor it has been to serve on it. One of the
proudest things I got a chance to do was to work on the TSCA
effort here. It was a bipartisan bill. We advanced an issue
around making sure that we were reducing animal testing with a
great goal.
Will you just please commit that you will remain strongly
committed to the work we did together in TSCA, and the
reduction of animal testing or to the greatest extent, the
elimination of it?
Mr. Regan. You have my confirmation on that as well.
Senator Booker. Thank you very much.
Senator Capito. Thank you. Thank you for your service on
the Committee. We will miss you.
Senator Booker. Thank you.
Senator Capito. Senator Boozman.
Senator Boozman. Thank you very much.
Thank you for being here. I have heard from a lot of
friends of yours, and you have an excellent reputation.
One of the honors that I have is being the ranking member
of the Agriculture Committee, representing our farm community.
Certainly, I know this has come up a bunch today, but the
Waters of the U.S. was really a real burden.
As Secretary of the North Carolina Department of
Environmental Quality, you signed a letter regarding EPA's 2019
rule repealing the 2015 Waters of the U.S. rule. In this
letter, you stated that the EPA should ``try to promulgate a
clear definition of WOTUS and should allow States the
flexibility to regulate waters necessary to achieve the goals
of the Clean Water Act in a manner that ensures the health,
safety, and economic prosperity of their citizens.''
But you ultimately opposed EPA's final Navigable Waters
Protection Rule. Do you support a rule such as the 2015 rule,
which had roughly one-half of the country operating on one
regulatory construct and the other half of the country
operating on another.
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question, Senator. As the
Secretary of DEQ, having to respond to both rules, there are a
lot of lessons learned, pragmatic experiences or pragmatic
solutions that we have learned from experiences.
I spent a lot of time with a lot of small farmers, I have
spent a lot of time with a lot of environmental groups. What I
would say is, I am looking forward to convening multiple
stakeholder groups on how we chart a path forward. I don't
believe that we have to sacrifice water quality at the expense
of making sure that farmers, especially small farmers, have a
fighting chance in this economy. I believe that you can do
both.
What I saw with the 2019 rule was a rollback that went even
further back than Presidents of both of our parties. So what I
am hopeful for is that we don't have to go with a slingshot
approach, that we can look for a common ground, where we give
the farming community and the environmental community some
certainty that as we move forward, we are going to follow the
science, follow the law, look at a pragmatic approach that
doesn't overburden the farmer. But we don't have to sacrifice
precious wetlands in North Carolina like our Carolina bays and
the others.
The last thing I will say is, it is very difficult for any
kind of Federal regulation to truly address the unique
agricultural needs of different regions. The agriculture needs
are different in all of our regions. And the water makeup in
Nevada surely doesn't look like the water makeup in North
Carolina. So I want a rule that moves forward, that is not
overly burdensome, but gives the States the flexibility to
protect water quality and protect the local agricultural
economy.
Senator Boozman. I would agree with that. The problem is
that generally, with EPA, and you have experienced this in
North Carolina, they agree with you unless the State disagrees.
That becomes a problem.
For our small farmers, and I agree with everything you
said, regarding the burden on particularly our small farmers.
As EPA director, what is the significant nexus test regarding
Waters of the U.S.? What is the nexus test? What would you tell
our farmers?
Mr. Regan. What I think I will tell our farmers is that
with this Administrator, we are going to have an open door
policy. I want to hear from our farming community. I want to
hear about the administrative burdens that they felt they
suffered as a result of some of what they call definitions that
they did not understand.
But I also want to make it a point that in North Carolina,
one of the biggest problems we saw was the lack of resources in
my department to provide technical assistance to these farmers.
I don't believe that small farmers are looking for a shortcut,
and I don't believe that small farmers do not want to protect
our wetlands and our water quality. We have to work together to
make sure that we have a rule that is understandable but
protective of, again, our water quality as well as not
overburden our small farmers. I believe that we can do that if
we have more conversations.
Senator Boozman. Good. Well, we look forward to working
with you on that. And it really is important. Listening to you,
you understand the importance, and I appreciate that.
Also, I agree with the statement about the fact that I know
that in North Carolina, Arkansas, almost all of our States, the
resources to actually educate farmers in lots of different
things is lacking.
Mr. Regan. Yes, it is.
Senator Boozman. So hopefully we can help with that, also.
Mr. Regan. Absolutely.
Senator Boozman. Thank you very much.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Senator Markey.
Senator Markey. Madam Chair, can you hear me and see me?
Senator Capito. I can hear you, but I can't see you, but I
bet I will in a few minutes. I can hear you though, very well.
There you are.
Senator Markey. OK, beautiful, thank you, Madam Chair.
Welcome, Mr. Secretary. I have looked at your outstanding
record. I know that you are going to do an outstanding job at
the EPA.
What I would like to do is, begin talking about clean car
standards and our ability to lift the overall energy efficiency
of the vehicles which we drive in the United States of America.
We have had a rollback over the last 4 years, but we have had
big developments very recently where General Motors has now
announced that they are going to end their production of the
internal combustion engine vehicles by the year 2035. China is
on a similar course. Europe is moving very aggressively.
Are you committed to using the authorities you have at the
EPA in order to increase those fuel economy standards? And do
you believe ultimately that there are consumer benefits to
having these much more efficient vehicles be put on the roads
and given as an option for consumers to purchase?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for the question, Senator.
I do anticipate using our statutory authority to set the
rules for the road. And I believe that we are going to do it in
a way that it complements the aggressive goals set by and
established by the private sector, the automobile industries.
We believe that the market is trending in a specific
direction. And we believe that we need the right policies and
the right regulations to be sure that all of the players
understand that there is a level playing field and understand
the rules of engagement.
There are tremendous benefits to moving in this direction.
There are tremendous benefits to the economy; there are
tremendous benefits to our automobile manufacturing sector in
terms of production. There are tremendous benefits from a
health and climate standpoint.
We have to do a good job of having robust conversations
with all the stakeholders, so that we can really, really take
advantage of the win-win-win, and that our strong labor force
can see themselves in this vision for the future.
Senator Markey. So, I agree with you, it is good for the
climate and environment, it is a job creation engine, and it
actually ultimately helps consumers with lower prices in the
long run. So I agree with you a hundred percent.
Will you work to ensure that States like California and
Massachusetts can work toward the creation of their own
standards to make sure that vehicles in those States meet the
highest standards?
Mr. Regan. Absolutely. I believe in following the law and
following established precedents. I think that the California
waiver exists for a reason. I think there is a process that we
should follow, and if those States follow those processes and
want to be champions in this arena, then they can go forth and
conquer, and the rest of the country can learn from these first
mover opportunities that they are taking advantage of.
Senator Markey. I agree with you. The States can move, and
you can move. We are so glad to have you there. We can turn EPA
into Economy Protection Agency, we can turn the EPA into
Emissions Prevention Agency. I just think we are on the cusp of
a great new era.
I would love to turn now to our conversation about
environmental justice. You just had a great conversation with
Senator Booker. I have introduced legislation, the
Environmental Justice Mapping and Data Collection Act. The
reason I have done that, with Congresswoman Cori Bush, is to
make sure that we actually measure the pollution, measure the
environmental damage. Because if you can't measure something,
you can't plan to deal with it.
So what do you think about that kind of legislation, and
those kinds of tools being given to you so that that kind of
mapping can be done all across the country, and as a result
remedial actions can be taken in a much more wise and targeted
way? But also knowing that it is disproportionately in Black
and Brown communities all across the country.
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that, and thank you for your
leadership on that. I believe that the more data that we have,
the more modeling that we have, the more tools that we have
that paint these pictures, the easier it is for us to make the
case. We know that there are disproportionate impacts to many
of our communities.
So the more data we have, the greater ability we have to
rectify those problems. I also believe that tools like that,
and we have seen this in North Carolina, when you put tools
like this in the hands of our economic developers and our
locally elected officials, No. 1, they will take action or help
support State agencies take action. But No. 2, as they do their
long term planning to recruit new industries, they have a
better sense of what the cumulative impact could be to these
communities based on the decisions that they are making.
So I believe it gives business also a clearer understanding
of how to plan for economic development projects as well.
Senator Markey. So President Biden has----
Senator Capito. Senator Markey, time.
Senator Markey. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
I am looking forward to working with you, Mr. Secretary.
Senator Capito. Senator Wicker.
Senator Wicker. Hello, Mr. Regan. Glad to get a chance to
see you in person. Thank you for taking the time to talk to me
a couple of times on the phone.
When we visited, I mentioned that I was stationed in your
home town of Goldsboro, North Carolina, for some 4 years. We
lived on Elm Street, and it turns out we were practically
neighbors when we were there for the 4 years.
Mr. Regan. That is right.
Senator Wicker. North Carolina has become a lot more urban
since I moved away in 1980. But still a lot of rural small
towns, rural communities, and I would imagine a lot of rural
water associations. Is that correct?
Mr. Regan. That is correct.
Senator Wicker. And you had a chance to work with them as
Secretary, DEQ Secretary of North Carolina?
Mr. Regan. Yes.
Senator Wicker. Let me ask you if you agree with this.
There is not a single water association board or board member
that doesn't want to comply with the Clean Water Act or the
Safe Drinking Water Act; it is just a matter of having the
expertise and the resources to do so. Am I generally correct
there?
Mr. Regan. That is correct.
Senator Wicker. So in working with these volunteer
association boards to comply with the new requirements, there
are two ways to approach this. One would be to impose penalties
on them for not getting to where they need to be, and the other
would be technical assistance, financial assistance, and
resources to help them get to where you want them to go, and
where they want to get to.
I like the second approach. What do you say about that? And
what has been your experience as DEQ Secretary?
Mr. Regan. My experience as DEQ Secretary is that No. 1,
people don't like surprises. They like to understand the rules
of the road, and they like certainty. Where we have been most
successful is the ability to provide technical assistance so
that folks do not run afoul.
Senator Wicker. OK. But also, a lot of times when they are
running afoul, as you say, it is something that they didn't
bring upon themselves, it is just their inability to afford the
new equipment or the new hardware that it takes to get where
they want to go. That is where the assistance and the technical
assistance comes in. I think you and I are on the same page
there.
But I hope you can assure me that you are going to work in
a collaborative way with these associations who absolutely want
the best water and the cleanest water for the members of their
association and the neighborhoods.
Mr. Regan. I will. And this is where the President's plan
looking at the number of investments that we need in our water
infrastructure is so critical. In North Carolina, we have
somewhere between $17 billion and $21 billion worth of water
infrastructure needs. We have advanced technologies that can
detect water chemicals and pollutants that no one ever dreamed
of.
We have to find a way to partner with these water
associations, invest in this infrastructure, so that we can do
a couple of things. The first is that we can protect water
quality. But No. 2, without this infrastructure, these rural
towns and cities are lagging behind in the ability to develop
economically and attract businesses.
Senator Wicker. I think I am understanding from your answer
that North Carolina rural water associations are not quite
there yet either, and it is going to take some Federal
assistance.
Mr. Regan. I think every State is struggling, across the
country, sir.
Senator Wicker. Let me mention one other thing. Senator
Cardin went on about Chesapeake Bay, Senator Whitehouse could
hardly wait until he got to the microphone to mention
Narragansett Bay. I am sure they are mighty fine. There is also
the Gulf of Mexico. I certainly hope you will be down to see us
soon in the Gulf of Mexico.
You should know, if you don't already, that after the
Deepwater Horizon spill in 2010, the largest oil spill in the
history of the country, Congress passed the RESTORE Act. There
is a RESTORE Council. Are you aware that they unanimously
voted, the council unanimously voted that the EPA Administrator
would serve as Chair of that council? Are you ready for that?
Mr. Regan. I was not aware of that.
Senator Wicker. OK. Well, I am telling you for the first
time that you are. Under the previous Administration, the Chair
worked collaboratively with the five States on the RESTORE
Council. So if confirmed, you are going to need to get back to
us and tell us how you would work and view your role as Chair
of the RESTORE Council, which is responsible for deciding how
the support for the impacted areas will be handled.
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that. I can tell you just based on
my experience, the way I would manage that body is, No. 1,
ensuring that all the stakeholders have a voice. No. 2, that we
understand what the clear rules of engagement are. And No. 3,
that we will follow the science and the intent, the original
intent of this RESTORE Council.
I believe firmly that rules are set for a reason, that
science and data can inform us, and that all of the people
sitting at the table should have an equal voice in terms of how
we move forward to find solutions.
Senator Wicker. I can't wait to see you down there.
Madam Chair, I just might observe that as other members
have found, you have sped that clock up this afternoon somehow.
Senator Capito. And your time is over.
[Laughter.]
Senator Wicker. Thank you, ma'am.
Senator Capito. Senator Duckworth.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Madam Chair. I am trying to
start my video, but it does not seem to be working.
Senator Capito. We can hear you, for sure.
Senator Duckworth. OK, great. I am going to go ahead and
start with my questions.
Thank you so much, Mr. Regan, for, as we discussed, for
your being here. And as we discussed during our courtesy
meeting, solving our climate crisis must be a top national
priority. A critical pillar of this effort should be the
American biofuel industry. In particular, farmers and others in
Illinois and throughout the heartland are ready to do their
part to help lower carbon emissions in the transportation
sector and reduce dependence on foreign oil, all while creating
or supporting quality jobs right here at home.
It is hard to think of a better way to put American
interests first than supporting the U.S. biofuel industry. That
is why one of the most surprising actions of the Trump
administration may have been its cynical betrayal of the
Midwest. While the former President campaigned on grand claims
of being a champion of the renewable fuels standard, upon
entering office, however, the Trump transition immediately
empowered a billionaire in the oil refinery business to begin
secret plotting to dismantle the RFS.
My constituents in Illinois were betrayed, but remain
optimistic that the Biden administration will be a staunch
champion of our farmers and of American biofuels.
Mr. Regan, if confirmed to lead EPA, will you prioritize
the faithful execution of the bipartisan RFS program just as
Congress intended?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question, Senator Duckworth.
You have my commitment that we will take a look at the RFS
program, and we will introduce some transparency into that
program. We will let science lead us, and we will follow the
letter of the law as it was intended for that program.
President Biden has not been shy that agriculture will have
a seat at the table as we tackle climate. And he has been
specifically focused on biofuels and advanced biofuels. One of
the first conversations I had upon nomination was reaching out
to now-Secretary Tom Vilsack to talk about how we can partner
together to pursue these efforts.
So you have my commitment in this area.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you. We also need to look backward
a little bit in terms of the backlog. Much attention was given
to the prior Administration's unlawful abuse of exemptions for
oil refineries.
However, the Trump administration's sabotage of the RFS
program was not limited to doing the bidding of big oil. In
fact, EPA was also slow to act, or refused to act in certain
cases on applications from innovative American companies
developing new, advanced biofuels that are read to qualify for
the RFS.
EPA now faces a huge backlog of applications, some of which
have been sitting for over 4 years. If confirmed, will you
commit to prioritizing clearing this backlog so that new,
climate friendly biofuels can enter the market as soon as
possible?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for the question, Senator. I will
spend some time with our staff taking a look at this backlog,
and working on processes of efficiency so that we can make up
for lost time.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
I also want to talk to you a little bit about environmental
justice. My partner in this, Senator Booker, initiated the
conversation. We have talked about this at length on both sides
of the aisle. I am so happy to see that there is bipartisan
support for fixing environmental injustice.
If confirmed, what actions would you take to
institutionalize a focus on environmental justice in every
region of the EPA?
For example, some of the injustice happens because of
structural injustice. You just don't have enough staff members
that can do the monitoring, that can actually go out there in
some of these regions, whether it is the south side of Chicago,
or a rural community like Sauget, Illinois, in far southern
Illinois, where there is just not enough people to go out there
and actually maintain the ambient air monitoring of chemical
emissions.
What would you do to fix that, to actually fix the
inequities within the institutional structure of EPA, so that
we have a focus on environmental justice in every region where
EPA is?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question. I am proud to say
that President Biden has made environmental justice a
centerpiece of this Administration. So we are going to have
some help in terms of looking at CEQ and other agencies as
well.
But as it relates to EPA, it is my intent to have an
environmental justice and equity advisor to the Administrator,
if I am lucky enough to be confirmed. We also are looking at
how we need to organize EPA to be sure that environmental
justice and equity is a top priority. We know that in looking
at the preliminary hiring of a lot of officials at EPA we will
have environmental justice and equity experts, people who have
on the ground experience and expertise placed in all of our
media offices, so that that lens is applied at every level of
our decisionmaking.
We have a lot of work to do. We have a lot of ground to
make up. I am sure that I will be back before this Committee
asking for additional resources in this area to be sure that
all Americans have access to clean air and clean water.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you. In the coming weeks, I will
be introducing the comprehensive Environmental Justice for All
Act in coordination with leaders of the House EJ Caucus, who
will also introduce the House companion bill. If confirmed,
will you commit to directing EPA to provide technical
assistance to support my office and this Committee so that we
may strengthen and advance this important legislative proposal?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question. You have my
commitment that the staff and myself at EPA will be a partner
in any legislation that advances this topic and helps us do a
better job of protecting each and every American in this
country.
Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator Duckworth. Your time is
up.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Capito. Senator Ernst, I believe, wants to question
but in person. She is not here, so we will go to Senator Van
Hollen.
Oh, excuse me.
Senator Carper. Before we do that, could I ask unanimous
consent to place in the record a statement from, gosh, over 20
agricultural organizations, in support of the nomination of
Secretary Michael Regan?
Senator Capito. Without objection.
[The referenced information follows:]
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Senator Capito. Senator Van Hollen.
Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Madam Chair, thank you and
Senator Carper and the others.
Mr. Regan, congratulations on the nomination. Thank you for
your service in North Carolina.
Just at the top of my question and comments here, I do want
to associate myself with the remarks of Senator Duckworth, and
appreciate the focus on environmental justice and also with
respect to Senator Merkley and other comments about the
President's climate change agenda and how that is so important
for American jobs. We don't want to leave any community behind,
as you say.
But by not engaging, by leaving the Paris Accord, by ceding
leadership to China and others, we actually fell behind in an
area that is essential to American jobs and good paying,
homegrown jobs. The costs of doing nothing not only come in the
form of more severe weather events and other costs to all of
our communities, but also in lost job opportunities in the
clean energy sector. So I appreciate this Administration's
focus in that area.
I want to follow up on some of the comments of my colleague
from Maryland, Senator Cardin. On this Committee, you have a
number of Senators very engaged in the Chesapeake Bay
protection, including Chair Capito and Chairman Carper, Senator
Cardin, and myself. It is because it is a multi-State
responsibility. Because it is a multi-jurisdictional
responsibility, EPA is right at the center. It is part of the
glue that helps all of us row in the same direction. At least
that is what we are supposed to be doing.
And so over the last many years, we have succeeded on a
bipartisan basis in preventing deep cuts proposed of the
previous Administration to the EPA program. I want to thank my
colleagues on both sides of the aisle for that effort. We are
going to need you front and center here now to make sure that
we hit our goals under the Chesapeake Bay Agreement for 2025.
Some States, all States can do better, but some States are
really lagging behind, including the State of Pennsylvania.
So I just need your commitment that you will work with us
across the State lines to make sure that we hit our targets in
pollution reduction in accordance with the 2025 goal.
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that, Senator Van Hollen. Yes,
absolutely, it is my goal and desire to mobilize all of the
resources that we need at EPA to be a partner to these States,
so that we meet that 2025 goal.
Senator Van Hollen. All right, because we are already
behind. And in the case of Pennsylvania, significantly behind.
We had hoped to work with the previous Administration to close
that gap, and of course, in the State of Pennsylvania, lawsuits
have been filed both by the State of Maryland but also other
organizations. We would like to resolve these issues as soon as
possible.
Let me ask you about the Good Neighbor Air Transport Issue.
Maryland has worked over the decades to address the issue of
air pollution originating in other States, but falling in
Maryland and into the Chesapeake Bay. In 2018, the Trump
administration's EPA denied Maryland's good neighbor petition
under Section 126(b) of the Clean Air Act regarding 36 upwind
electric generating units in five other States. On May 9th of
last year, the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals granted Maryland's
good neighbor petition for review in part and remanded the
issue to EPA.
I would like to get your commitment here today to work with
us to address this downwind air pollution issue and a new
review of Maryland's good neighbor petition under the Clean Air
Act.
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question. You do have my
commitment that this agency would review that petition. North
Carolina is one of the States that has had to exercise that
good neighbor petition. We were granted the petition, we ended
up in court, and we won under the leadership of now-Governor
Cooper.
So we understand the impact of transport and the
implications that that might have on a State's economy. So you
have my commitment that we will review that.
Senator Van Hollen. I appreciate that. And finally, just as
you probably know, thousands, actually, over a thousand really
dedicated EPA employees have left the agency over the last 4
years, including a lot of people with very special expertise.
So I hope you will work with our entire committee as you seek
to rebuild morale at the EPA.
Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Senator Carper.
Senator Carper. Yes, let me just say to Senator Van Hollen,
who is leaving our Committee and is going to join the Foreign
Relations Committee, something he has wanted to do for a long
time. Just to say how much we valued, how much I valued his
work with us, and the spirit that he brings to these issues.
I want to draft on him for a minute, Mr. Regan, just want
to draft for a minute, that is what we say in NASCAR. I want to
draft on Senator Van Hollen just for a minute on the air
transport issue, a similar situation. When I was Governor in
Delaware, roughly 80 to 90 percent of the harmful emissions
that come into our State, air emissions, come not from
generated within, they come from without, and they are blowing
into our State, from the north, from the west. I used to say I
could literally shut down the economy of the State of Delaware,
shut it down, and we would still be out of compliance.
We basically got no help from the last Administration, and
I am encouraged to hear that this is something you are
knowledgeable about and have worked on before. We look forward
to making sure that we treat other people the way we want to be
treated. It is the Golden Rule all over again in a way
everybody can understand.
I want to just mention some of what we are experiencing.
Delaware is the lowest lying State in America. Our State is
sinking; the seas around us are rising. That is something that
we are witnessing. We have also witnessed in this country, in 9
in the last 10 years the hottest on record. Hottest on record.
About a year ago, they had hurricane force winds in Iowa in
the middle of the year, wiped about a third of their crops.
Fire storms in California last year, Oregon and Washington last
year, the size of my State.
Sea level rise in Louisiana, we are reminded by our
colleagues John Neely Kennedy, Bill Cassidy, in Louisiana, they
lose a football sized area of wetlands every 30 minutes to the
ocean, to the sea. Every 30 minutes. I remember being down in
that State with Senator Landrieu maybe 10, 15 years ago. She
said they would lose maybe one or two football fields of land,
now it is like one every 30 minutes.
Sea level rise in Louisiana, Arctic Circle. My wife was
down in Antarctica a year ago. The temperatures down there
broke records, all time records. We learned earlier last year
that in the Arctic Circle, the temperature there reached 100
degrees Fahrenheit. In the Arctic Circle, 100 degrees
Fahrenheit.
We have more named hurricanes last year than any year
before. We ran out of names, we had to start with a new
alphabet or something, as I recall. And I understand Hurricane
Laura damaged last year, the property damage, casualty damage,
was $19 billion. Last year we had 22 $1 billion disasters that
flowed from hurricanes and storms, 22 in excess of $1 billion.
Hurricane Florence was just in North Carolina alone, I am
told, $24 billion. And the science is in, the reason why all
this calamity and extreme weather is going in and the enormous
loss of life and danger and property and economic value is
because we have too much carbon in the air. We have too much
carbon in the air. And too much methane in the air. We have too
much HFCs, hydrofluorocarbon, in the air. And we have got to do
something about it. If we don't, it is just going to get worse.
In fact, it has been getting worse.
The question is, can we do something about it, reduce the
HFCs, reduce the carbon dioxide, can we do those things and
create economic opportunity and jobs, the kind of stuff that
Senator Sullivan is talking about? Every fiber of my being says
we can do both. I think we got to, we have to do both.
Would you just comment on that again? I know you have
talked about it, but just come back to it again.
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that. I absolutely agree that we
have to do something about it. In North Carolina alone, in the
last 5 to 7 years, we have seen three or four so called 500
year, 1,000 year floods. These storms are very intense. We know
that human activity is contributing to the intensity of these
storms. So not only do we have to focus on solutions to
mitigate climate change, which President Biden's aggressive
agenda demonstrates that we can create good jobs on the
mitigation side.
We have also got to design resiliency in infrastructure
plans, so that we can adjust to this new norm. We've got to
adjust to the new storm intensity, the new flooding. We cannot
build the same way we have always been. We can't put Humpty
Dumpty back together the same way every time.
So the answer to your question is, yes, we believe that
human activity is intensifying this situation we find ourselves
in. Yes, we believe that there are solutions to mitigate
climate change. Yes, we believe that we can create jobs and
safety while becoming more resilient. And yes, we believe that
we can create jobs on the mitigation side as well.
We believe that there is safety, that there is health
outcomes, and there is job creation in all of these various
scenarios. We just have to have a plan. We all have to be
rowing in the same direction. And we have to come together, and
everyone has to see themselves in this vision that we are
painting.
Senator Carper. Senator Coons and I had the opportunity to
have a conversation today with our new President. We talked
about what to do to help people, some of the kinds of people
that Senator Sullivan was just talking about, people whose job
skills may be are not relevant, maybe they just--that is the
wrong way to say it, that it is not relevant. But there is just
not the demand for those skills that there might have once
been. Is there something that we can do to help them?
One of the things we are experimenting with in Delaware,
and you might want to consider this in other places, is how do
we help folks to retrain, retool, to fill the jobs that are out
there?
I grew up in West Virginia, born in West Virginia. A lot of
my neighbors were coal miners. We used to have hundreds of
thousands of jobs in coal mining, including a bunch in West
Virginia. I think in the country now we might have 50,000 jobs.
We can't just forget those people. We have to find
something to help them to do, to find new skills. Just give us
some examples of how we might do that.
Mr. Regan. One example is looking at President Biden's
executive order solely focused on this question, looking at how
do we help transition our States that are heavily dependent on
coal and mining. The reality is that as we think about EPA sort
of setting the rules of engagement for the level of emissions
that we need to reduce in order to save the planet, the reality
is that there are other agencies that are also major players in
this that have resources to invest in research and development.
We can really think about some new advantages in the supply
chain that coal actually offers. We can really think about when
we retool these communities, really understanding what the
skills are. Most of the skills are transferable to needs that
we have right now in terms of infrastructure, filling a gap for
some of the research and development that is going into new
science, technology, and the like.
So my point is that I don't believe there is a silver
bullet. I believe that it requires a robust conversation. I
believe the market is trending in this direction. I believe
technology is trending in this direction. I believe that
American ingenuity, if we can all come together, can solve
these problems, and we can lead the world.
Senator Carper. I believe we have a second round. I
appreciate the time. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Senator Ernst.
Senator Ernst. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Mr.
Regan, for appearing in front of our Committee today. I have a
couple of really important issues that I want to visit with you
about, very important to our Iowa farmers and our producers. I
am so thankful to have had the conversation we did the other
week. So thank you so much.
One of the most important issues that the EPA will consider
for my State is how to handle the renewable fuels standard. We
all have very differing opinions maybe on this Committee. But
it is very important to Iowans.
Should you be confirmed for this position, waiting on your
desk with anticipation when you get through the door will be a
number of pending items related to the RFS. There will be some
decisions on small refinery exemptions. You will have an RVO
for 2021, there are pending cellulosic biofuel petitions, and a
request by Governors to waive the RFS program because of COVID-
19.
Then a few months later, EPA will begin figuring out the
2022 RVO and how to handle volumes in 2023 and beyond, as well
as determining how to handle some regulatory hurdles facing
fuels, like E-15. There is a lot going on in this space.
So in short, because there is a lot happening, EPA really
does need to step in and provide guidance. So how will you
ensure that these important matters, which really do have an
outsized impact on many States like Iowa, and for a number of
these States in the middle of the country. How will you look at
this and make sure that they get handled in a way that provides
further economic opportunity?
Mr. Regan. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I too
have enjoyed the conversations we have had on this topic.
RFS is definitely a priority for this Administration. I
recognize that there will be a number of things sitting on the
desk if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed.
The reality is that I want to sit down with my staff, sit
down with legal counsel. There are a number of things that are
caught up in litigation. There are a number of things that we
need more transparency around how we arrived to those
decisions. And we need to be sure that the agency actually
applied the latest data, the latest science, and followed the
letter of the law in some of the decisions that have been made.
So we plan to do a thorough review of all of the decisions
that fit under the umbrella of the RFS. But we don't plan to do
that without consultation with you and with other stakeholders
that will be impacted by these decisions.
What I can promise you is, we will take a no surprise
approach. We will be extremely transparent. We will be
forthcoming with the science and the data and the legal
determinations that we come to in order to make those
decisions. And we will share those decisions with you.
Senator Ernst. I think that is a very important first step.
Hopefully, we continue to work beyond that. Transparency is
something that we have felt has been lacking. And we fully
expect that to have integrity in any sort of program, we need
that from the EPA. We need to understand how those decisions
are being made.
So if confirmed, staying on the topic of the RFS, can you
commit to a strong and growing role for corn ethanol in the
RFS, including for 2023 and beyond, when the statutory tables
have expired? Again, we have some hurdles coming up after 2022.
EPA will be heavily, heavily involved in this. We do want to
see the continuation of our renewables. Is that something you
can commit to?
Mr. Regan. Yes. I can commit to the fact that the President
has indicated that agriculture will have a seat at the table in
this Administration, especially as it relates to climate
change. We are going to take a look at all the latest science
and be sure that we are communicating that with you all.
There is a commitment that, again, following the science
and following the letter of the law, the intentions of the RFS
will be a top priority for us.
Senator Ernst. Wonderful. My time is running short, so I am
going to jump ahead to WOTUS. On the first day in office,
President Biden gave clear direction to EPA to review and
rescind a number of the Trump EPA's major rulemakings,
including the Navigable Waters Protection Rule. As you know
this rule replaced the Obama administration's 2015 WOTUS rule.
And the Navigable Waters Rule does enjoy widespread support
from our farmers and ranchers.
If confirmed, do you intend to rescind the Navigable Waters
Protection Rule?
Mr. Regan. Thank you for that question. If I am confirmed,
I plan to take a look at what our options are to address any
kind of lingering concerns, whether that be litigious or
concerns with the community, bring our stakeholders together,
as I have done in North Carolina, and take a look at what do we
need to do to move forward to provide some certainty to our
farming community, especially our small farmers, so that
decisions can be made and investments are not stranded on the
sidelines.
But I also want to be sure that we do that in a way where
we are protecting our water quality, our wetlands, and our
bays.
Senator Ernst. And I always believe, and maybe you do as
well, but our farmers are the first conservationists and do a
very good job through education and other means of putting
those things into practice. So I appreciate that.
Senator Capito. Senator Ernst, your time is expired.
Senator Ernst. What we don't want to do is exacerbate the
problem further.
Thank you very much for your indulgence, Madam Chair.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
So I believe all our members have, wishing to ask a first
round of questions have had the opportunity to do so. I am
going to ask if you are OK if we go to a second round. I don't
want to be very long, I don't believe. Do you need a little bit
of a break, or are you OK?
Mr. Regan. I am fine, thank you.
Senator Capito. And your son is amazing. He is great. I
have been watching him. I have seven grandchildren; not sure
that would happen at our house.
Senator Carper. When our boy was that age, what is he, 8 or
9?
Senator Capito. He's 7.
Senator Carper. When my boys were that age, no way in the
world I would have brought them to a hearing like this. I don't
know if you have him sedated or what. He is a trouper.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Regan. There is a toy in the deal, Senator.
Senator Carper. I hope it is a good one.
Senator Capito. I hope it is a good one, yes.
[Laughter.]
Senator Capito. So I am going to yield my first questioning
time to Senator Sullivan, then we will go to Senator Carper.
Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Regan, thanks again. I do want to, of course, get your
commitment, if confirmed, to get up to Alaska.
Mr. Regan. Yes, you have my commitment.
Senator Sullivan. Absolutely great.
Listen, to my friend Senator Carper, who is a good friend
of mine, I just want to caution everybody on these discussions,
the discussion of like, what is a relevant job and what isn't.
All my constituents have relevant jobs right now. Let me give
you one example. We can grow the economy, create millions of
jobs and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
How do I know? Because we have already done that. From 2005
to 2017, the United States reduced greenhouse gas emissions by
almost 15 percent. That is more than any other major economy in
the world, by far. How did that happen? It wasn't EPA
regulations, no offense to the EPA, Obama, Trump, now Biden. It
was the revolution in natural gas, period. Everybody knows
that. President Biden used to brag about it last year on how
important it is. That is oil and gas workers.
So they are incredibly relevant. So we need to be cautious.
Every job is relevant. My constituents have very relevant jobs.
The last thing we want is to have senior Administration
officials, John Kerry, Gina McCarthy, others, telling Americans
what is relevant and not. That is not the way to bring people
together.
I want to talk a little bit about Alaska. We are the
classic place where one size does not fit all. We are very big.
My Texas colleagues get sick of it when I talk about we are two
and a half times the size of Texas. If you split Alaska in
half, Texas would be the third largest State in the country.
But I mention that because so many things EPA does have an
enormous impact on my State. Let me just give you a couple of
stats. Alaska is home to 63 percent of the Nation's
jurisdictional waters under the Clean Water Act. We are home to
65 percent of the Nation's wetlands. Sixty-five percent of
America's wetlands reside in my State.
So that is why issues like the Waters of the U.S. are
really, really important to my constituents. We have more
coastline than the rest of the lower 48 States combined. We do,
just in my State.
So these issues are huge in Alaska, which is why I look
forward to getting you up there if confirmed.
Now, I want to turn to this really important issue, I am
glad you are raising it, equity and environmental justice. The
one groups that I want to talk about in particular are the
large minority group in my State, which are Alaska Natives. The
population includes my wife, my daughters, almost 20 percent of
the population.
We have over 30 communities in Alaska, mostly Alaska
Native, that have no running water, no flush toilets, nothing.
So one of my first pieces of legislation that I passed in this
Committee with Senator Boxer was for communities that are
disadvantaged like that.
So can I get your commitment, if confirmed, to work with me
on this issue, which just shouldn't happen. There shouldn't be
communities in America that don't have running water and flush
toilets. Can I get your commitment on that?
Mr. Regan. Senator, absolutely. Absolutely.
Senator Sullivan. That is an equity and environmental
justice issue if there ever was one.
Let me turn to a big map that I trot out a lot. This is
from the American Medical Association. We are talking about
jobs, why these policies are important for jobs. I am going to
talk about not just for jobs, but for lives.
The AMA did a study from 1980 to 2014, and it looked at
what part of the country, what region had life expectancy
increases. Where you see blue and purple, that is the most. My
State had the biggest life expectancy increases in the country
by far, 7, 8, 9, of up to 13 years.
I have asked my colleagues in debates, because I have
trotted this out a lot, give me a policy indicator more
important is, are your constituents living longer. There are
not many. In my State, that has happened. The reason it has
happened is because these communities that you see in Alaska,
where there is a big life expectancy, A, they start from a very
low level. Most of the Alaska Native communities, really low
life expectancies.
But what happened from 1980 to 2014 is resource development
happened. Oil and gas happened. Mining happened. That is why I
get so emotional about these issues.
These are equity issues. These are environmental justice
issues. If this Administration wants to shut down these kinds
of economic opportunities, this impacts people's jobs but also
how long they live. So I would like to get your commitment
before any big decisions are made on undermining these kinds of
industries to work with me, work with my stakeholders.
Madam Chair, I would just like to introduce a Wall Street
Journal op-ed from the Mayor of the North Slope Borough,
Inupiat leader that was entitled Goldman Sachs to Alaska
Natives, Drop Dead. This was all the big banks, saying, we are
not going to invest up there. What he said in his op-ed was,
then I worry about the livelihood and life expectancy of the
Native people of Alaska.
So when you are talking about environmental justice, please
don't forget about the Native people of my State. Because they
have benefited from oil and gas and resource development jobs
in a way that most Americans can't even imagine.
So can I get your commitment when you are working these
equity, environmental justice issues, to have my constituents
front and center in your mind as well?
Mr. Regan. Senator, I look forward to working with you and
your constituents on all of these issues. And I would really
love to get the details and the data behind that life
expectancy chart there. I would love to study that, and have my
staff study that.
In areas where States are leading, we want to learn from
those States, we want to replicate those things. So I look
forward to that.
Senator Sullivan. Great. Thank you very much.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Capito. Senator Carper, a second round?
Senator Carper. Thank you.
Great source of greenhouse gas emissions in this country
are mobile sources. Cars, trucks, and vans that we drive. We
heard earlier today that our friends at General Motors have
announced that they are going to be basically phasing out
gasoline and diesel powered cars, trucks, and vans by 2035. A
group of five auto companies found common cause with California
and about 20 some other States last year to begin reducing and
ratcheting down greenhouse gas emissions.
I am encouraged with the letter that has been sent by the
auto industry, many companies in the auto industry, to the
President just in the past week that there is an eagerness to
build on that five State deal, or rather the five car company
deal with California, and others. There is a witness, an
interest in building on that as a foundation to ramp up
greenhouse gas emissions so that actually eliminating gasoline
powered cars, trucks, and vans by 2035 is not a pipe dream.
Would you talk about that? Will you talk about the
willingness of the Administration to work to try to build on
what is already happening in the marketplace and to work with
companies like General Motors, Toyota, and others to actually
get us to where we are talking about going, reducing emissions
from the greatest source, that is our mobile sources?
Mr. Regan. Absolutely. Thank you for that question and
those statements. You are exactly right. I think that we are
seeing the markets trend in a direction where technology is
leading us. I believe that there are lots of jobs to be had in
this area.
Under President Biden's aggressive agenda, there is a real
focus on transportation. EPA has a large role in that. I think
that we have a lot of authority under the Clean Air Act, using
some of our mobile source rules, to really structure and set
the stage for how we usher in this new era that we are seeing
the private sector move toward.
A couple of points that I would like to make is, No. 1, we
have the power to set these standards in a way that, again,
defines the rules of engagement so all of these companies can
move together in sync, but compete in a competitive market.
No. 2, if we work very hard, we can see the benefits of
good paying union jobs here in the United States, help to usher
in this new era and earn a great salary at the same time. And
No. 3, we will see tremendous benefits, not only from a climate
standpoint, but we will see tremendous benefits to air quality.
As we look at our roads and bridges and traffic patterns,
we know that many of these roads go through communities that
are disproportionately impacted by air pollution.
So there is just so much to be gained here. EPA could play
a leading role, using the Clean Air Act and our mobile source
rulemaking. We can partner well with an automobile industry
that is seizing this momentum. And we will get climate
benefits, we will get jobs, and we will get better air quality
for those who have been disproportionately impacted for too
long.
Senator Carper. Thank you.
I had a conversation with Mary Barra last year, the CEO of
General Motors, about the future of the auto industry, and the
propulsion in the auto industry. Interesting enough, she said,
I was trying to get her, to convince her from GM to join these
other five auto companies in the agreement with California and
a bunch of States. She said, I am already on an electric. That
is the future, and that is where we are going.
We need three things, in the industry, three things in
order to be successful in this regard with respect to electric
vehicles and hydrogen powered vehicles. One, she said, we need
easy access to charging stations and fueling stations for
hydrogen. We need technology that where we have the batteries
that can recharge in minutes, not in hours. And she said, we
need the ability to get range, at least 300 miles for a vehicle
on a full charge of the battery. She said those are three
things we need.
One of those is something this Committee can do something
about. I am sure my colleague, Senator Capito, remembers this
when we passed the 5 year reauthorization of the Surface
Transportation Act a year and a half ago in this Committee, we
included in there a significant climate chapter. Part of that
was building a series of corridors across the country where we
have fueling stations and charging stations. That would be part
of that, as introduced, as support for moving the industry.
It is no good for us, for GM and Ford and Chrysler and
others, to build electric powered vehicles or hydrogen powered
vehicles, and nobody is going to buy them because they can't
get them charged and refueled. We can do something about that.
Last thing I am going to ask about, renewable,
identification numbers. We have a refinery in Delaware City,
they keep getting hammered by the volatility of something
called RINs, Renewable Identification Numbers. Somebody else I
think actually mentioned this in conjunction with renewable
fuel standards. It has become a commodity, it is traded in a
commodity. It disadvantages refineries, especially the smaller
refineries. Because it is like someone is using, making out of
this tool that was designed to make the renewable fuels
standard work, making it hard to be successful.
Is this something that you are familiar with and care
about, know about?
Mr. Regan. Yes. We have had some discussions on this, and
understand how it fits into the full picture of the RFS, and
understand that we really need to protect the integrity of
these RINs. Also ensuring that we are looking holistically at
the original intent of the RFS and the law and applying the
correct data and science to be sure that we are protecting the
integrity of those RINs.
Senator Carper. One more quick question if I could, Madam
Chairman. Would that be OK, one more?
Senator Capito. Sure.
Senator Carper. Thanks.
Mr. Regan, the AIM Act legislation we passed here, the idea
is to ratchet down HFCs over a 15 year period of time. HFCs are
a thousand times more dangerous in terms of greenhouse gases
and carbon dioxide, as you probably know. Would you commit that
if confirmed, you will support the President's direction to the
State Department to send the Kigali amendment to the Senate for
ratification? And will you make implementation of the AIM Act,
which is the legislation that does the phasedown over 15 years
of HFCs, to make implementation of the AIM Act a top priority
for EPA under your leadership?
Mr. Regan. Yes. First of all, thank you and the other
members for your leadership on that. HFCs is such an important
topic.
Senator Carper. What is it worth in terms of climate change
and temperature? Is it half a degree Celsius, just this one
thing, right?
Mr. Regan. It is huge. It is very significant. You guys
have done the heavy lifting, and it is our job to do the
execution and implementation of that law.
Senator Carper. Great. Thanks so much.
Madam Chair, I ask unanimous consent to add to the record,
to place a tribe's support for the Biden executive order into
the record. I would also ask unanimous consent, if I could, to
place into the record all materials, a catch all statement, to
insert all materials into the record. It is going to be a
pretty big record. A variety of materials including news
articles, letters from stakeholders, reports, fact sheets and
other materials that relate to today's nomination hearing for
Secretary Regan to be Administrator of the EPA.
Senator Capito. Without objection.
[The referenced information follows:]
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Senator Carper. And let me just say again, thank you so
much. You have been a splendid Chairman.
Senator Capito. However brief it is.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. There is nothing like going out on top.
Senator Capito. Right.
Senator Carper. You just knocked the ball out of the park,
it makes me even more excited about working with you and our
colleagues in the years to come.
Mr. Regan, Michael, you did a great job here today. We are
proud of you. I could barely see your wife's lips move when you
spoke. We very much welcome her and your son, Matthew, to our
family. Hopefully, we will be able to convince all of our
colleagues to vote for you and get you confirmed so you can go
to work.
Thank you so much. God bless you.
Mr. Regan. Thank you.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
I have just a few wrap up questions for my second round.
I told you at the end of my first round that I wanted to go
back and talk about your experience in North Carolina with the
regulations under Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act,
including the Clean Air Plan and the ACE Rule. You talked
slightly about this.
Do you believe that Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act
provides the EPA with authority to regulate greenhouse gases
from a power plant only inside the fence line, or can EPA
regulate beyond the individual plant fence line? How do you
feel about that?
Mr. Regan. I would love to confer with my staff and with
legal counsel to best determine how the courts have ruled on
EPA's interpretation of that.
Senator Capito. As you know, the courts have kind of been
on both sides of that issue. I think it would make a
determination to whether you could force a power plant to
switch generation sources and only require say, a coal plant or
natural gas plant to come up with best practices. So it does
have great impacts, obviously, in certain parts of the country
and certainly in my State as well.
Senator Gillibrand mentioned PFAS. You and I talked about
this on the phone. I am very passionate about this issue, very
concerned about the impacts of PFAS in the long term. I did
press Administrator Wheeler to get to a clean drinking water
standard, didn't get there. I agree with her, it didn't come,
there is a pathway toward it. But I am like minded with her in
terms of the restlessness of getting there and the delay. So I
would impress upon you how important I think that is to our
Nation and to our Nation's younger, as they are living through
the impacts of what this could have on drinking water.
So I would just ask a pledge to keep working with me and us
on that.
Mr. Regan. Absolutely.
Senator Capito. The last thing I would say is, and to
Senator Carper, thank you for letting me have the joy of
chairing my one Committee hearing here. I know we are going to
be able to work well together, and we anxious to go to the
Transportation Bill.
But what I hear Senator Carper talk about electric
vehicles, I think that is very aspirational. I saw where the
President said he wants all thorough vehicles to be electric.
And I think that is a great aim.
But we have to realize here, we have to power these things
with electricity. If we disenfranchise a lot of the power
sources that we can make cleaner in the process, I am talking
natural gas and coal, that now provides our baseline fuel, I
mean our baseline power here in this country, we are going to
stick the plug in and try to power the vehicle and there is not
going to be enough power. It is going to be a power surge in
this country if we get to this point of having electric
vehicles.
So at some point we really have to look at, and we see
certain States like California that have had outages, and have
had to throttle different power sources because they are
running low on a really hot day or maybe a really cold day or
something of that nature.
So I will just say in West Virginia we say coal keeps the
lights on, which it does, but it also powers a lot of vehicles,
and it employs a lot of people. So again, when we talk about
what the effects are of transitioning jobs and environmental
justice, and how it impacts people in all different
communities, and Senator Booker is very passionate in this
area, I think the experience that I experienced with the 1.8
million West Virginians in the past several years during the
Obama administration where now we see some of the same players,
not you, you are a fresh face, very transparent, very ready to
work, and I really welcome that.
Because I am concerned, because some of the same words and
the same rhetoric was given to us, we are going to take care of
you, we are going to retrain workers, they are going to learn
to code, they are going to move, they are going to do this,
they are going to do that, and we just got dropped on our
heads.
It really, really hurt our part of the country. I am sure
you have seen some of that in certain parts of North Carolina
in different industries.
So I just am hoping, I am hoping, and I am an optimistic
person, so maybe I am even hoping toward believing, but I am
hoping that it is not just another committee that is going to
give the State $2 million to have a committee meeting so we can
figure out how we are going to make things better and then
nothing ever happens and no change ever occurs.
So I want to be your partner in this. I want to be able to
join with you and the rest of the members of the Senate, but
particularly those hard hit areas. Because it has been very,
very difficult to try to rebound from.
So with that, I would say, unless you wanted to make a
comment, I would say we are about to wrap up.
Senator Carper. Madam Chair, before we wrap up?
Senator Capito. Yes.
Senator Carper. One last thing. For a long time, Delaware
did not use, when I was Governor, we didn't use the Economic
Development Administration. We didn't use EDA. As it turns out,
we didn't have, we hadn't produced the kind of comprehensive
economic development plan that EDA was looking for in order to
make us eligible to apply for grants.
One of the grants we obtained from EDA about a year or 2
ago was to enable, to take money raised by, believe it or not,
auto dealers, by our poultry processors, an EDA grant. The idea
was to work with our statewide community college, Delaware
Technical Community College, to create something, a center for
automotive excellence. We now have in southern Delaware, in our
county seat of Georgetown, a Delaware Technical Community
College, top of the line to attract and retain folks to work
for auto dealers, vehicles of the future, do the maintenance
work, to work for the poultry industry trucks and so forth. But
we did it with the help of the EDA, and we worked with our
community college.
I think there is something there in terms of retraining and
retooling, we have jurisdiction over EDA.
Senator Capito. Right. That is the good news.
Senator Carper. We have jurisdiction. And the Biden
proposal, Build Back Better, they asked for $3 billion--$3
billion for the EDA. We have never done more than about $300
million in a year. Three billion dollars is a huge amount of
money. I think there is a chance to partner in a more creative
way to help meet the skill sets and needs in the marketplace,
but also that a lot of folks, if given the opportunity to use
or learn a new skill, they do it. And they are doing it, we are
signed up fully at the Center for Automotive Excellence in
Georgetown.
Senator Capito. Well, I look forward to the EDA discussion.
I think that we have used the EDA actually really well in West
Virginia most recently on a lot of different infrastructure
development and job training and development. So I do think it
has a place because it is for underserved and unserved areas.
So I look forward to working with you on that.
I just want to really thank you. You have been an excellent
witness. You have answered questions with a lot of honesty, and
your promise to get back to people is very much appreciated.
I think there are no more questions. Members may submit
follow up written questions for the record. They are called
QFRs here. And by 4 p.m. on Friday, February 5th, the nominee,
I would ask Secretary Regan to respond to these questions by 10
a.m. on Monday, February the 8th. So there goes your weekend.
I would like to thank Secretary Regan for your time and
testimony, and thank your beautiful family for being here with
us.
I wish you the best of luck.
Mr. Regan. Thank you so much.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
We are adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 4:56 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]