[Senate Hearing 117-]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




 
  COMMERCE, JUSTICE, SCIENCE, AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 
                            FISCAL YEAR 2022

                              ----------                              


                         TUESDAY, JUNE 15, 2021

                                       U.S. Senate,
           Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations,
                                                    Washington, DC.
                                                    

    The subcommittee met at 2:07 p.m., in room SD-192, Dirksen 
Senate Office Building, Hon. Jeanne Shaheen (Chairwoman) 
presiding.
    Present: Senators Shaheen, Manchin, Van Hollen, Moran, 
Boozman, Capito, Kennedy, and Braun.

             NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN

    Senator Shaheen. At this time I would like to call the 
Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, and Science and Related 
Agencies of the Senate Appropriations Committee to order.
    Good afternoon. As I said, we hope that we will be joined, 
as soon as the caucuses are ended, by some of the other Members 
of the subcommittee, but for now, I am pleased to be joined by 
my Vice Chair, Senator Moran, and for the hearing with the new 
NASA Administrator, Bill Nelson, who we are so pleased to be 
able to welcome back to the Senate.
    Now since in his previous capacity, Administrator Nelson 
represented the State of Florida and did a very good job of 
pointing out the importance of Florida to our space program.
    I would like to begin by being a little parochial and 
talking about the fact that my home State of New Hampshire is 
also a space State. We had the first U.S. man in space, was 
from New Hampshire, Alan Shepard, and of course our teacher in 
space, Christa McAuliffe was also from New Hampshire. New 
Hampshire made parts that provide communications, thermal 
protection, fluid transfer, and more, for NASA missions 
operating in deep space. We still build and operate major 
instruments on NASA satellites to study solar physics, the 
Moon, and the Earth. We are very pleased that at the University 
of New Hampshire we have one of the most expansive and best-
regarded heliophysics programs in the country.
    We are very ready in New Hampshire to contribute across the 
board to the exciting science exploration and aeronautics 
included in NASA's $24.8 billion budget request, this 
represents $1.5 billion or 6.7 percent increase above the 
fiscal year 2021 level.
    Now there is a lot to like in this budget request, it 
includes a $20 million increase for NASA's Office of STEM 
Engagement, which we know is critical to our future. The 
funding will allow more students to contribute to NASA's 
mission with hands-on learning so they can join a diverse 
science and engineering workforce in the future.
    Of course, as we think about what we have got to do in the 
future, we have to address climate change. Climate change, as 
we know, is an existential threat that is already compromising 
our environment, public health, transportation, infrastructure, 
economies, and even military installations. I know the 
administrator appreciates that because he has seen what has 
happened in Miami, and the fact that we have got to address the 
changes in our climate.
    What this budget does is step up our commitment to NASA's 
world-class Earth Science Research so we can better understand 
our changing planet, and also to sustainable aviation so we can 
meaningfully cut aircraft emissions. I am also pleased to see 
the other investments in science, enabling ongoing missions to 
continue, and providing funds needed due to the impacts of the 
COVID-19 pandemic on NASA centers and its commercial and 
academic partners.
    With respect to Artemis, NASA's missions to send the first 
woman and the first person of color to the Moon, there has been 
a lot of discussion of NASA's decision to select only one 
contractor for the Human Landing System Demonstration Mission 
to land on the Moon as early as 2024, I want to just point out 
that NASA's rhetoric blaming Congress and this subcommittee for 
the decision to do just one contractor really rings hollow. I 
hope we can get to this in our questioning, because in fiscal 
year 2021, NASA projected that it would need $4.4 billion for 
landers in fiscal year 2022. Instead, the budget before us 
requests only $1.2 billion for the HLS Program.
    I am interested in how NASA intends to stimulate 
competition while continuing progress towards its planned 
program that will use the Gateway as a basis for excursions to 
the Moon. Now, I know that you are not going to be able to 
answer some of these questions because of the ongoing GAO 
protest of NASA's decision. However, I hope we can discuss 
where competition is really critical to bring the best value to 
government.
    NASA at its best inspires us, and we certainly needed some 
joy and inspiration over the last year. We soared with Bob and 
Doug as SpaceX Demo-2 mission became the first mission to 
launch astronauts from U.S. soil since 2011. We crossed our 
fingers through Perseverance's 7 minutes of terror, and we 
exhaled when the rover landed safely and precisely. It has 
continued to amaze us with the sounds of Mars, and the flights 
of the Ingenuity Helicopter.
    I am looking forward to what we will see in the coming year 
as NASA continues to make spectacular discoveries, fly the X-57 
electric aircraft, and see long awaited launches for Boeing 
Starliner, the James Webb Space Telescope, and the Artemis I 
Mission. There is a lot on your plate, Mr. Administrator, we 
are ready to work with you. We look forward to that.
    I will now recognize the Ranking Member, Senator Moran.

                OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JERRY MORAN

    Senator Moran. Chairwoman Shaheen, thank you very much. 
Administrator Nelson, welcome to this subcommittee. We look 
forward to fruitful conversations today and into the future. I 
am just, on a personal level, excited about the country being 
led by you as a NASA Administrator, and personally for you, I 
cannot imagine another capstone to a distinguished career that 
could bring more meaning and significance to your life.
    Our last time together was your nomination hearing, and 
that occurred at the Commerce Committee. I hope that you are 
settling in at NASA. I say that so I can remind you, as you did 
earlier, that I am not only an authorizer but an appropriator. 
We look forward to being a partner and an ally in advancing the 
cause of space for our country.
    You have the opportunity to lead an organization that is 
known throughout the world and serves as an instrument of 
discovery and inspiration for both young and old. I am reminded 
about the inspiration and how it can affect people, I would 
highlight the story of Clyde Cessna and the effects he had on 
Kansas that last even till today.
    Clyde was a farmer in Rago, Kansas, with a knack for 
mechanics who attended an air exposition in 1911 and became 
determined to build a plane and fly it within his grasp. For 5 
years he worked on his designs, ultimately starting production 
in 1916 in Wichita, Kansas, to build airplanes, and ever since 
Cessna's name has been associated with civilian aircraft. Today 
partnerships can be found between NASA and Kansas utilizing our 
State's aerospace strength while working to advance NASA's 
toward their future goals.
    NASA's proposed fiscal year 2022 budget is $24.8 billion, 
an increase of $1.5 billion over the current budget, within 
this budget exists a number of inspirational opportunities that 
will certainly be the spark that leads to a future that we 
cannot imagine today. We are creating more Clyde Cessnas every 
day because of NASA.
    I have seen the Artemis I rocket in action, the Orion 
capsule and the flight hardware being built for returning to 
the Moon, and there is no question that seeing our astronauts 
return to the lunar surface will have a lasting impact on the 
lives of future scientists and engineers. The Perseverance 
Rover and Ingenuity Helicopter are bringing us new and exciting 
events from the surface of Mars, and NASA will soon be flying 
an experimental aircraft that will enable hypersonic flight in 
ways that were not ever before possible.
    I am pleased to see that STEM Engagement is back in the 
budget for NASA. It has been an issue for this subcommittee and 
our full committee for a long time. NASA has the opportunity to 
capitalize on its missions to encourage students across the 
country, no matter where they live to pursue activities in 
STEM, the Nation needs these activities to maintain and grow 
our capabilities for the future.
    As other nations began to make strides in space 
exploration, we must, we must maintain our lead and leadership 
in space. The proposed budget presents a vision of what NASA is 
capable of in these unique times.
    I thank you for coming today, Administrator Nelson, I look 
forward to our conversations not only today, but in the future 
on how NASA can accomplish its goals. Thank you, sir.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you very much, Senator Moran.
    We are delighted to hear your testimony.
STATEMENT OF HON. BILL NELSON, ADMINISTRATOR, NATIONAL 
            AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
    Mr. Nelson. Madam Chair, Senator Moran, returning to these 
halls brings almost a catch in my throat, because it was one of 
the greatest honors of my life to serve with you all in this 
institution and, indeed, basically a lifetime of public 
service. I must admit I am like a kid in a candy shop now, and 
every day has just been one excitement after another. This 
morning, very early, I went to Russia and I came back, 
participating in a global space conference that was held in St. 
Petersburg, Russia; followed up later in the morning with a 
call with the President of Roscosmos, talking about our mutual 
interest.
    I certainly made a note of the fact for him to remember 
that, two nations that, while on terra firma, have had some 
difficulty with each other, both as a Soviet Union and now 
Russia, and the United States. Ever since 1975 we have 
cooperated, and we have not only cooperated, we have worked and 
lived together in space ever since General Tom Stafford and 
General Alexei Leonov rendezvoused and docked.
    Those two crews in the midst of the Cold War, and our 
difficulties with the Soviet Union, and yet they demonstrated 
what can be done if you will reach beyond the politics. That 
has continued. Example, the Russians have built the 
International Space Station with us. You think about the 
station, think about going to the football game from one 
goalpost, to the other goalpost, to the end of the end zones, 
from end zone to end zone, that is how large the space station 
is right now on orbit. We have cooperated with a dozen nations 
as we are carrying out all the research, the activities, the 
space walks, and particularly our partners that helped us build 
the station.
    Now I am mindful of your time, because I have heard 
witnesses that drone on and on, and I am not going to. I want 
to leave it for you to ask questions. My opening statement 
could have been the remarks that the two of you have already 
made.
    Let me just point out a couple of stories. This, which is 
in most everybody's pocket, it has become almost essential to 
us every day. When we see something that we like we take a 
picture of it. That is a spinoff of space technology, because 
NASA developed a camera on a chip that is basically in every 
one of our cell phones. That is the kind of spinoff we have. 
You get on an airplane, now that COVID is loosening up, look 
out the window and look at the wing and you will see that wing 
turn up. That was as a result of NASA Aeronautics Research.
    What they found is, you can save fuel and indeed you can 
get to altitude quicker. Look at Senator Moran is talking about 
aeronautics that is, by the way, the first A in NASA, look at 
the research that we have going on now. We are going to fly at 
the end of this year an all-electric experimental aircraft to 
see if, as we develop it further, if we can cut down on 
pollution as well as fuel consumption.
    Just recently NASA conducted an experiment at the Charlotte 
Airport, and this particular experiment because of air traffic 
control on the ground, as well as in the air, in the period in 
which the study was conducted, they saved over a million 
gallons of fuel in a short period of time. Ultimately, you all 
are going to see that in our air traffic control, what we would 
call the next generation of air traffic control. Get from point 
A to point B, by going in a straight line, instead of the 
routes that we often have to take on a ``dog leg''. With our 
present radar system this can direct us and you can have 
instant situational awareness in the cockpit.
    Now I have just scratched the surface on what NASA does. 
Madam Chair, I want to stop there. There are some very 
important decisions that have to be made about us getting to 
the Moon and landing safely in the goal of 2024, and all along 
be mindful of what a very aggressive space competitor is doing.
    I am talking about China. When they landed on Mars, the 
second nation to land on Mars with a rover, successfully, it 
makes no difference that we did it back in the 1970s first. It 
does make a difference that they are very technologically 
advanced, and tomorrow afternoon there is going to be an 
announcement out of this global conference in St. Petersburg 
between the Russians and the Chinese. It will be interesting to 
be tuned into that because the primacy of our space program, as 
cooperative as we have been, it is going to be important for us 
to be landing on the surface of the Moon with the first woman 
and the first person of color before our competitors do.
    With that, I would turn it over to you for whatever I might 
try to answer, Madam Chair.

    [The statement follows:]
                 Prepared Statement of Hon. Bill Nelson
    Chairwoman Shaheen and Members of the subcommittee, I am pleased to 
have this opportunity to discuss NASA's fiscal year 2022 budget request 
of $24.8 billion. This request represents an increase of $1.6 billion, 
or 6.6 percent, above the fiscal year 2021 enacted level.
    But first, I would like to thank you for your ongoing support for 
NASA. This funding aligns closely with administration priorities, 
including expanded climate change research; continued investment in 
human spaceflight through the International Space Station (ISS) and 
Artemis Programs that enhance global engagement and diplomacy; 
investments in cutting-edge research and development that fuel 
innovation, create high-paying jobs, grow the economy, and improve life 
on Earth; advancement of the U.S. aviation industrial base to build a 
green aviation system; and strengthening of a diverse Science, 
Technology, Engineering, and Math (STEM) workforce that inspires future 
generations.
    NASA is more than the world's premier space exploration 
organization. NASA is a uniquely powerful source of national 
inspiration and international leadership. Over the past year, the NASA 
team has demonstrated remarkable resilience, overcoming COVID-19 
challenges to press forward with a series of outstanding successes, 
including the historic first flight on another planet. NASA's landing 
of Perseverance on Mars is emblematic of an Agency, and a Nation, that 
can overcome challenges, to achieve whatever goals we set. To quote the 
President on a phone call to NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL):

        ``We can land a rover on Mars. We can beat a pandemic. And with 
        science, hope, and vision, there's not a damn thing we can't do 
        as a country.''

    With the resources entrusted to us by Congress and the American 
people, and the dedicated efforts of our commercial partners, we have 
returned human spaceflight to American soil on American rockets. 
Adapting what we have learned from these efforts, we are moving rapidly 
to return Americans to the surface of the Moon as quickly as we can 
safely do so. We are committed to landing the first woman and the first 
person of color on the Moon. We will use all of this Nation's capacity 
for innovation to develop the experience and capability around the Moon 
that will send Americans on to Mars. We are building the Space Launch 
System (SLS) and the Orion crew vehicle, to make deep space exploration 
possible, and we will soon launch the first, uncrewed mission in the 
Artemis lunar exploration program. During this flight, targeted for 
this year, the spacecraft will fly farther than any spacecraft built 
for humans has ever flown.
    The budget request includes funding for the development of the 
Block lB variant of SLS as well as funding for construction of a second 
Mobile Launcher, both of which will help support a robust Moon to Mars 
program.
    On April 16, 2021, NASA announced it had selected SpaceX to 
continue development of the first commercial human lander that will 
safely carry the next two American astronauts to the lunar surface. The 
firm-fixed price, milestone-based contract total award value is $2.89 
billion, out of total requested 5-year Human Landing System (HLS) 
funding of $7.8 billion. This HLS contract award is under protest as of 
this time. While the human landing demonstration award is under 
protest, NASA is continuing to prepare for competition for the follow-
on landings to the lunar surface. These services will provide human 
access to the lunar surface using the Gateway on a regularly recurring 
basis beyond the initial crewed demonstration mission. By taking a 
collaborative approach in working with industry and international 
partners while leveraging NASA's proven technical expertise and 
capabilities, we will return American astronauts to the Moon's surface 
once again, this time to explore new areas for longer periods of time.
    For over 20 years, NASA has maintained a continuous human presence 
in Earth orbit, developing technology, skills, and knowledge needed for 
human exploration of the Moon and Mars. The budget request ensures that 
there will be no gap in human presence in Low Earth Orbit (LEO) by 
continuing to invest in commercial LEO destinations and services. The 
coming year will see a second commercial partner demonstrate crew 
transportation and begin regular crewed flights to the ISS. This 
regular cadence of crew rotation missions will contribute to the 
foundation of a more affordable and sustainable future for American 
human spaceflight. In addition, this will allow more capacity and 
resources for research and development projects on ISS, which are 
improving life on Earth and proving out the viability of a LEO economy.
    NASA is on Mars now and studying the planet more intensively than 
ever before. The request includes funding to develop the mission that 
will return samples from Mars to Earth. With the successful landing of 
the Perseverance rover, we are now operating two rovers, a lander, and 
a helicopter on the surface of Mars, supported by an array of orbiting 
spacecraft. We continue to operate a constellation of spacecraft 
exploring the solar system while developing new missions to Earth's 
Moon and Jupiter's moon Europa, as well as a mission dedicated to 
detecting potentially hazardous Near-Earth Objects (NEOs). Later this 
year, we will launch the Lucy mission to explore the Trojan asteroids 
in the vicinity of Jupiter, to be followed in 2022 by the Psyche 
mission to a metallic asteroid. These asteroids are thought to be 
remnants of the primordial material that formed the outer planets. NASA 
recently announced a major return to our nearest planetary neighbor, 
Venus, selecting not one but two missions that will be run out of the 
Planetary Missions Program Office at Marshall Space Flight Center. The 
first mission, DAVINCI+, will measure the composition of Venus' 
atmosphere to understand how it formed and evolved, as well as 
determine whether the planet ever had an ocean. The second mission, 
VERITAS, will map Venus's surface to determine the planet's geologic 
history and understand why it developed so differently than Earth.
    NASA is a critical piece of the administration's efforts to 
understand and address global climate change. The request supports the 
continued development of high-priority missions including Plankton, 
Aerosol, Cloud, ocean Ecosystem (PACE); Climate Absolute Radiance and 
Refractivity Observatory (CLARREO) Pathfinder; and Landsat 9, while 
also supporting acquisition of Earth Science observation data for 
commercial SmallSat constellations. In a major step forward for Earth 
Science, we have initiated a mission concept for NASA's Earth System 
Observatory, a new architecture for deploying and integrating next-
generation spaceborne Earth observation systems. The Observatory 
includes development of four core strategic missions for launch this 
decade, and will provide the world an unprecedented understanding of 
the critical interactions between Earth's atmosphere, land, ocean, and 
ice processes. These processes define how the changing climate will 
play out at regional and local levels, and on near- to long-term time 
scales. The Earth System Observatory builds on NASA's Earth Science 
Division's current observations of Earth on a global scale, a fleet of 
16 major Earth observatories plus six Earth observation instruments on 
the ISS, SmallSats, CubeSats, and missions flown by piloted and 
unpiloted aircraft.
    Later this year, NASA will launch the James Webb Space Telescope 
(Webb), the largest and most complex space science observatory ever 
built. Webb is an infrared telescope designed to observe the farthest 
objects, broadening and transforming our understanding of the early 
universe. It will see the light from the first galaxies that formed in 
the early universe after the Big Bang, and observe the birth of stellar 
systems, as well as explore distant worlds and study the atmospheres of 
planets orbiting other stars--known as exoplanets--searching for 
chemical fingerprints of habitability. Webb will join a constellation 
of operating astrophysics observatories including the Hubble Space 
Telescope, Chandra X-Ray Observatory, and seven other operating 
missions. The request supports the development of the Nancy Grace Roman 
Space telescope, designed to unravel the secrets of dark energy and 
dark matter, and to search for and image exoplanets.
    Supporting all of these efforts, NASA is developing new 
technologies ranging from robotic servicing technology to extend the 
life of orbiting spacecraft to laser communications for space. 
Launching this year, the Laser Communications Relay Demonstration will 
showcase the unique capabilities of optical communications to radically 
increase the volume of information a signal can carry. In fiscal year 
2022, NASA will deliver the Polar Resources Ice Mining Experiment-1 to 
Intuitive Machines, who will transport this first-of-its-kind, in situ 
resource utilization demonstration to the Moon. This experiment will 
robotically sample and analyze ice from below the surface and study the 
drill cuttings for water and other chemical compounds to help 
scientists understand the potential of using resources found on the 
Moon. The Low-Earth Orbit Flight Test of an Inflatable Decelerator will 
complete fabrication of its flight hardware for an fiscal year 2022 
demonstration of space braking technology that will enable a variety of 
proposed NASA missions to destinations such as Mars, Venus, and Titan, 
as well as return to Earth. The On-orbit Servicing, Assembly, and 
Manufacturing-2 project is working toward a late 2022 launch to build, 
assemble, and deploy its own operational solar arrays in space. NASA is 
continuing to spur a vibrant space economy through a new Industry and 
Commerce Innovation opportunity that will invest in technologies needed 
by commercial space stakeholders.
    NASA's aeronautics research will make significant contributions to 
the national effort to address global climate change, through vehicle 
technology development and advanced airspace operations, as well as 
serving as a vital source of innovation for the country's leading 
export industry, commercial aviation. The request increases funding for 
planned green aviation initiatives across these programs and supports 
the continued development of the X-59 Low Boom Flight Demonstrator, as 
well as early designs of a Sustainable Flight Demonstrator. This year, 
we will fly the first test flight of the X-57 Maxwell, NASA's first 
all-electric X-plane--a major step forward in efforts to develop a more 
sustainable aeronautics industry.
    For the first time in many years, NASA's budget request includes 
funding for its Office of STEM engagement. With a significant increase 
over recent appropriated funding, the budget request for STEM 
engagement will increase investment in the Nation's next generation of 
scientists, engineers, technologists, mathematicians, and explorers.
    NASA is uniquely positioned to support administration priorities. 
The Agency is helping to restore America's global standing, 
demonstrating the power of a diverse, unified democracy to overcome 
challenges and achieve great goals. As a source of innovation, and by 
directly promoting the growth of space and aeronautics industries, NASA 
plays an important supporting role in creating skilled, high-paying 
jobs. We are critical to the administration's efforts to expand climate 
research and investment in innovative sustainable technologies. In 
addition, NASA is accelerating efforts to further diversity, equity, 
and inclusion. NASA has long understood that diversity, equity, and 
inclusion is not simply a matter of justice or fairness, but rather a 
source of strength and innovation and critical thinking.
                               conclusion
    The fiscal year 2022 request demonstrates the President's 
commitment to NASA and the people across the Agency and its partners 
who have worked so hard this past year under the most difficult 
circumstances and achieved unprecedented success. The NASA workforce 
and the American people should be encouraged by what they see in this 
budget request. It is an investment in our future, and it shows 
confidence in the broad array of benefits this Agency delivers for the 
Nation.
    Madam Chair, I would be pleased to respond to your questions and 
those of other Members of the subcommittee.

    Senator Shaheen. Thank you very much, Administrator. As you 
point out NASA is important not just for research and what that 
can provide to our other innovative discoveries and commerce. 
It is also important in terms of the competition where we are 
no longer the only actor there. We have to ensure that we 
continue to be competitive.
    I want to go back to the issue that I raised in my opening 
statement that we discussed briefly when we had our phone 
conversation, which I very much appreciated, and that is the 
issue of one provider for the human landing system. As we have 
seen from commercial cargo and commercial crew, having multiple 
providers can keep the cost of services down and ensure that 
when a problem comes up with one provider, it does not shut 
down the whole International Space Station.
    What is the best approach for ensuring competition for 
Lunar Lander Services? Do we ultimately need two demonstration 
missions? Or can we ensure competition in a sustainable phase?
    Mr. Nelson. Yes, ma'am, we do need to. Competition is good, 
it brings the best cost and the most efficient route, the fact 
is that before you were kind enough to confirm me in this 
position NASA had requested $3.4 billion in this current year 
in order to get this competition going. There were three major 
competitors. At the end of the day the appropriation was $850 
million, approximately $400 million of that was used as the 
kick start to the initial competition.
    Dynetics bid about $8.5, $9 billion, and these were fixed-
price contracts, Blue Origin bid about $6 billion, SpaceX bid 
$3 billion. Before I arrived on the scene, NASA did a Source 
Selection and the Board decided that they did not have enough 
money in what was the run-out on the budget, in order to have a 
sustained and qualified real competition. Although each had 
their own technical proficiency, and yet, you see where the 
fixed-price bids had come in. That was the Source Selection 
Board's decision.
    What I would propose to you, Madam Chair, and Senator 
Moran--Senator Braun, good to see you,--is that you all 
consider additional monies for ensuring that there is the 
competition. Now we are in this never-never land right now 
until August 4 because of the GAO protest. Of course that 
decision will have a bearing on this, but going forward we are 
going to have, one way or another, competition for a lot of 
landings on the Moon over the next decade-and-a-half. In which 
case, this country boy from Florida thinks that you ought to 
have competition.
    Now, there are many different ways to skin a cat, as you 
all know. That is, you have got a jobs bill coming along, and 
there is, in one form, a recommended R&D component in that jobs 
bill, aside from just straight infrastructure. By the way, in 
infrastructure NASA has a lot of buildings that are 
deteriorating. If you have a space center in your various 
States, they will know, the senators will know about that 
because of the deteriorating condition.
    For example, the big building down in New Orleans that puts 
together the core of the big rocket, it has holes in the roof, 
and they need some money to repair that. The jobs bill is a way 
that you could fund NASA's needs not only for infrastructure, 
but also for this additional money to try to give us the 
competitive proposition over--so that we can then select two 
landers at least, let them compete, and ultimately have the 
Source Selection Board decide on one.
    Senator Shaheen. Well, just so I am clear about what you 
are saying with respect to this mission. As I understand what 
you are saying is that there are lots of opportunities for 
competition in the future. We are going to get a resolution 
from the GAO at some point this summer, and so for this mission 
you see only one contractor.
    Mr. Nelson. Well, the decision was that for the first 
demonstration landing, there was only enough money to award 
one, but we are not going to the Moon to have one demonstration 
landing with humans. We are talking about utilizing the 
properties of the Moon to get ready to go to Mars. That is 
going to require many landings and those need to be competed, 
now that is if the GAO upholds the NASA Selection Board 
decision.
    Senator Shaheen. I understand that.
    Mr. Nelson. If they throw it out, then we go back to the 
beginning and restart it. There, of course, is where we would 
need resources to do a vigorous competition.
    Senator Shaheen. Again, just so I understand. In that case 
what you are suggesting is if the GAO throws out the bid that 
NASA would be coming back to this subcommittee to request 
additional funding for competition?
    Mr. Nelson. No, because I am requesting that right now, and 
suggesting that a way to do that is the jobs bill.
    Senator Shaheen. Okay.
    Mr. Nelson. For that additional funding.
    Senator Shaheen. Unfortunately, this subcommittee will not 
make the decision on the jobs bill. That would be nice if we 
could expand our ability to do that, but.
    Mr. Nelson. It would be. As a matter of fact, you all may 
be making that at the 11th hour and the 59th minute.
    Senator Shaheen. Well thank you. I will turn it over to 
Senator Moran for his questions at this point.
    Senator Moran. Chair, thank you. I guess I just will try to 
put a cap on what this conversation has entailed. There is 
nothing in this budget request, the administration's budget 
requests that asks for this subcommittee and the Full 
Appropriations Committee to fund an additional competitor in 
this process. Is that true?
    Mr. Nelson. That is correct. It is a very robust request, 
but the hard reality is that if we want to do competition on 
down the line of all the landings that need to get started 
right now, there is going to need to be more money. I am 
suggesting that the jobs bill is a way that you could do that.
    Senator Moran. Administrator, I am not trying to create 
banter here, but you are having to do the same thing we have to 
do, which is prioritize our spending. Let me ask about the 
Artemis landing date. I have seen what you have said in public. 
The budget request does not contradict or propose a different 
date from the previous 2024 goal, as far as I can tell. I know 
that these ambitious goals and timelines often spur motivation 
as well as provide a mechanism to incite decisiveness in 
decisionmaking.
    The calendar says 2021, and there is a lot still to be done 
in order to land our astronauts on the Moon. If NASA receives 
exactly the budget that is being requested for Artemis from--in 
the appropriations process, when do you believe we will land 
astronauts, that first woman, that first person of color, on 
the Moon?
    Mr. Nelson. I wish I could give you a precise answer; the 
fact is that 2024 is the goal. Space is hard. If you look at 
the history of development of spacecraft and rockets, you often 
run into situations in which--in fact, there is some unknown 
that occurs and you see delays. We have to be soberly realistic 
about this, but the goal is 2024.
    Senator Moran. The budget that you are requesting meets 
that goal? Assuming that the assumptions that are made today, 
that your budget would meet that goal of 2024.
    Mr. Nelson. Unless you want competition. I have suggested a 
way in which to do that. Senator, may I add one other 
complicating factor?
    Senator Moran. Please.
    Mr. Nelson. I think--this is my personal opinion--that I 
think you are going to see a very aggressive China. You are 
going to see a Chinese Government that understands all the 
value of the success in space. We have already seen how they 
are glowing in the afterglow of their landing on Mars with a 
rover. I think you are going to see an aggressive program of 
them landing on the Moon. I am stating what is out there 
already in the press.
    I think that is going to become a question for you all as 
policymakers. What is the value to the United States that we 
get back to the Moon first, and get on with this program in 
preparation to go to Mars?
    Senator Moran. What transpired with the landing by China on 
the Moon, did it change any calculations as to what we are 
doing at NASA, or formulate any additional ideas about 
technology?
    Mr. Nelson. It certainly has my attention. I have suggested 
to you, and landing on Mars is no small feat, which they did.
    Senator Moran. Yes, I misspoke. Thank you for correcting 
me.
    Mr. Nelson. I think you are seeing statements being made by 
the Chinese Government that they don't want to wait around 
until the 2030s to land on the Moon with humans; and tomorrow, 
as I mentioned, in this global conference in St. Petersburg, 
Russia, we are expecting a statement being made jointly by 
China and Russia as to what their plans are. Let us see what 
that is.
    Senator Moran. You and I had a conversation just briefly 
before this hearing started. I was highlighting for you 
something that I was pleased to know that you already knew. 
Last December, the Kansas Department of Transportation and the 
Federal Aviation Administration finalized an agreement to 
establish the Kansas SuperSonic Transportation Corridor for use 
in testing non-military aircraft that fly faster than the speed 
of sound.
    As the first and only such commercial SuperSonic flight 
test route in the Nation, in our Interior, we would welcome 
NASA to utilize the 770 nautical-mile-long corridor within our 
State to further NASA's SuperSonic efforts. NASA moves forward 
in their X-59 testing, can I assume that you will keep me and 
my staff updated on the selection of flight paths for that X-59 
and ask you that this opportunity that Kansas has helped to 
create, be utilized by NASA?
    Mr. Nelson. Of course. Senator, Kansas is to be commended 
that they are forward-thinking enough to realize that there is 
the advance of technology. As we are developing this X-59 so 
that you could fly SuperSonic and do it over land, as well as 
over the ocean, what you all are saying is, you want that 
SuperSonic aircraft to say: Boom, over that corridor that you 
have created.
    What this research is, is to develop that SuperSonic 
aircraft, that does not go the big boom when it breaks the 
sound barrier, but that it is a much more muffled sound that 
does not become a problem in flying SuperSonic over populated 
areas.
    Senator Moran. Mr. Administrator, thank you and just ask 
you to allow me the opportunity to highlight for you that 
capability, in Kansas, for the X-59 testing.
    Thank you, Chairwoman.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Moran.
    Senator Kennedy.
    Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Mr. Administrator, congratulations.
    Mr. Nelson. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Kennedy. I think the President has chosen well, and 
I am so pleased that we will get to continue to work together 
and I mean that, Bill.
    Mr. Nelson. Well, it is my privilege.
    Senator Kennedy. Your budget, your budget request includes 
$390 million for, ``Construction and environmental compliance 
and restoration''. Now we need, as you probably know, about 
$174 million to restore and repair Michoud and Stennis. Is that 
included in your budget request?
    Mr. Nelson. Well, it is going to be, if you will help us.
    Senator Kennedy. We will help you.
    Mr. Nelson. Senator, before you came in, I have already 
named Michoud.
    Senator Kennedy. That is what ``Bubba'' was telling me.
    Mr. Nelson. Pointed out, there are holes in that roof where 
we are putting together the first core, the first stage of the 
rocket before it is shipped to the Stennis Space Center, where 
then the engines are tested with the live fire and not only at 
Michoud and at Stennis, but every NASA center, 10 of them, and 
10 facilities, and there is crumbling infrastructure, and we 
desperately need it.
    I will tell you, one of the things you could do with this 
infrastructure bill coming along, we can only squeeze out so 
much in the President's budget, but you have a wonderful 
opportunity, as conservative estimate, NASA needs about $5 
billion to address its infrastructure needs.
    The chairman of the--the Ranking Member of the full 
committee, Senator Shelby has pointed out to me on a number of 
occasions that he has an administration building, a 
headquarters building at his Center, Marshall Space Flight 
Center, that has to be torn down.
    Senator Kennedy. Yes.
    Mr. Nelson. It is just in terrific disrepair. We really 
have these infrastructure needs.
    Senator Kennedy. Let me ask you. Let me switch gears here 
slightly. The SLS heavy-lift rocket, as you know, is being 
built for Artemis missions so our astronauts can return to the 
Moon, beyond the planned Artemis crew missions, what will be 
the role for SLS in the next decade as you see it? Can it be 
used, or will it be used for cargo-only missions in support of 
staying on the Moon, or our journey to Mars? Or will we use it 
to launch scientific missions? What are your thoughts?
    Mr. Nelson. All of the above, Senator. The first three 
missions are with regard to--and by the way--I wish, Madam 
Chair, that you all might consider doing a CoDel at the end of 
the year to come down for the launch of the most powerful 
rocket in the world. The Space Launch System, SLS, with its 
spacecraft on the top called Orion, and it will----
    Senator Kennedy. That is a great idea, great idea, 
Administrator.
    Mr. Nelson [continuing]. It will launch uncrewed. It will 
go way out beyond the Moon, come back, the capsule will land in 
the ocean. If all goes well, then within 2 years we will have 
the first crew. This is Artemis II, to go out beyond the Moon, 
maybe do a cislunar orbit, and then come back.
    Artemis III, which is the one, Madam Chair, that we are--
the goal is 2024. Then it goes and rendezvous in lunar orbit 
with the winner of the competition for the first demonstration 
landing, the lander takes the crew down to the surface. They do 
their activities, come back, marry up with Orion and bring the 
crew home safely.
    Then Artemis IV, and you had asked about that as did the 
chair, Artemis IV has an enhanced upper stage because now it 
has a bigger load, not only the spacecraft on top, but the 
first component of the so-called space station that will go in 
lunar orbit called the Gateway, which will be built with our 
international partners, and will serve as a way station as we 
build and develop the technologies to go to Mars.
    Senator Kennedy. Wow. Well, I am out of time, but let me 
say it again, Mr. Administrator, I am very grateful you are 
willing to continue to share your good judgment, and your 
experience, and your expertise with the American people. I am 
so pleased we will continue to work together. Thank you for 
giving so much.
    Mr. Nelson. Bless you. Thank you.
    Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Kennedy.
    Senator Van Hollen.
    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, Ranking 
Member Moran.
    Mr. Administrator, it is great to see you. Look forward to 
working with you on the important mission that you have before 
you. You know well that your own State of Florida is a major 
center for space activities and exploration. I know you also 
know that Maryland has a major footprint when it comes to 
space, including the Goddard Space Flight Center, including, 
APL, the Applied Physics Laboratory and their Hopkins Space 
Center Institute--Space Telescope Institute. Wallops, which is 
not physically located in Maryland, but majority of the great 
people who work there live and work in Maryland.
    I just want to, again, renew the invitation from Senator 
Cardin and myself. To come with us to visit Goddard, as well as 
Wallops. Are you still up for that?
    Mr. Nelson. I am expecting to be at Goddard in the next two 
weeks, and it is my understanding that the Vice President wants 
to go and wants me to tag along. I think that would be a great 
time for you and Ben Cardin to come as well.
    Senator Van Hollen. I appreciate that. We will definitely 
follow up with you on that. Thank you, Mr. Administrator. In 
the prior administration we had a challenge getting them to 
budget for important missions related to space, fortunately, 
this scientific subcommittee on a bipartisan basis recognized 
the importance of those missions.
    I am pleased to see that the Biden administration budget, 
your budget includes funding for PACE, for OSAM-1, for Europa 
Clipper, so grateful that that is included already in the 
budget. I mentioned the Wallops Flight Center, and that is a 
center that is critical to our space and Earth Science 
missions, it is a hub for unmanned flight. It is a supplier to 
the International Space Station, and it is home to NASA's 
Balloon Program.
    One item missing from the budget that was submitted by the 
administration is the 21st Century Launch Complex Program. We 
will be working again on a bipartisan basis, I hope, to make 
sure that we fund that important program. I understand that you 
intend to request a $5.4 billion for infrastructure in support 
of upgrading NASA's facilities. I think I may have overheard 
some of the conversation. Is that part of the annual 
appropriations; or you said that is part of the American Jobs 
Plan?
    Mr. Nelson. That is the jobs bill.
    Senator Van Hollen. All right. Well, let me just say 
Goddard and Wallops both have a number of shovel-ready 
projects, including when it comes to Wallops, something called 
the Wallops Island Causeway Bridge, it is the single access 
point to the Wallops Complex, and it is 60 years old and 
overdue for replacement. Could you agree that we will continue 
to work together to make those investments as well as 
investments through the 21st Century Launch Program?
    Mr. Nelson. As a matter of fact, Senator, your bridge is 
number one on the list and, absolutely. Of course the President 
proposes that you dispose, and so this is a partnership, and as 
I had said to the chair, there are more ways to skin a cat than 
one. The jobs bill is an opportunity, not only for 
infrastructure but for R&D as well, which is desperately needed 
if we are going to have the competition for the human lander 
that we have been talking about previously in this hearing.
    Senator Van Hollen. Appreciate that. As you know, and I 
know you agree that we are strongest when we put all of our 
talent on the playing field and that is of course true in the 
area of STEM, and Maryland has a number of terrific HBCUs and 
MSIs that are leaders in this area. Morgan State is among the 
top four colleges in the country, graduating Black engineers. 
It is one of 11 HBCUs that has an R2 Doctoral Research 
University status.
    Bowie State is the first university to receive a satellite 
collaboration with NASA, and University of Maryland, Baltimore 
County, has recently been awarded an extended support by NASA 
for its Center for Research and Exploration in Space Science 
and Technology. Look forward to working with you on that. I 
think, Mr. Administrator, this is a priority of yours in terms 
of making sure that all of these universities are part of the 
NASA's efforts to strengthen STEM. Is that right?
    Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. The President's budget is very robust 
in STEM. It is a significant increase. By the way, this has a 
relationship to each of your States because the Space Grant 
goes into every State. For example, Minority University 
Research and Education Projects are another way to enable a 
greater opportunity to reach out to minority students.
    I think you just look at: What are we confronting? Okay, go 
back 50 years ago. We were going to the Moon. It was the great 
space race with the Soviet Union. We did this tremendous 
successful feat of landing humans on the Moon and returning. 
What did that do to education, in science, and technology, and 
engineering, and mathematics? For a whole two generations that 
excitement about space flight rippled through those 
generations. We saw the effect of that on our country, the 
economic renaissance that occurred as a result of the increased 
technology that had come out of that more highly STEM-educated 
workforce.
    I believe that is what is going to happen here, as we go 
back to the Moon and on to Mars, I think it is going to excite 
another couple of generations of students. As a result, we, the 
United States, as well as Planet Earth, are going to be the 
beneficiaries.
    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Mr. Administrator.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you.
    Senator Boozman.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    It is good to see you, very much. I want to publicly thank 
you, Administrator Nelson, for your decision to continue to 
serve the country and in a field that we all know you have a 
great passion for. Your experience as an astronaut and 
legislator makes you an ideal advocate for NASA's priorities. I 
know you will do a great job, I know you will do an excellent 
job, and look forward to supporting you in any way that we can, 
as you lead NASA into the future of space exploration and 
scientific research. Again, congratulations, very, very much.
    The President's budget request includes NASA funding for 
its Office of STEM Engagement, important funding like this 
helps organizations like Arkansas' Space Grant Consortium, 
educate undergraduate and graduate students on aerospace 
science and research. This program also inspires K through 12 
students in STEM-related fields. I know from your time on The 
Hill, you championed funding in STEM education. What is your 
plan for the Office of STEM Engagement? Will you continue to 
support organizations like Arkansas Space Grant Consortium?
    Mr. Nelson. Senator, you said it as good as I can say it. 
Every State gets a space grant, and STEM grants are often 
distributed through universities. There is an emphasis also on 
minority outreach universities as well, as well as the HBCUs. 
There is a robust budget that is proposed in this budget. It is 
$147 million. I might point out that over the past few years 
there were attempts to zero that out, but you all always 
restored the STEM budget, I thank you for that.
    This particular budget has a $20 million plus-up, I hope 
that you all will consider this recommendation and I would like 
to come to your State, and I would like----
    Senator Boozman. We would love to have you.
    Mr. Nelson [continuing]. To visit one of your universities 
and to talk about the STEM grant that goes to that university.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. Thank you very much. The 
International Space Station is responsible for some of the most 
ground-breaking scientific research and technology 
breakthroughs in the last few decades. Currently the U.S. will 
cease operations with the International Space Station in 2024. 
You have pushed to extend that authorization until 2030 so the 
Commercial Space Station could replace it. Can you briefly 
discuss how this plan ensures that NASA will maintain a 
continuous human presence in low-Earth orbit? Also, how will 
NASA work with these commercial partners to continue its great 
scientific research?
    Mr. Nelson. Thank you, Senator. Several years ago when Ted 
Cruz and I were leading the Space Subcommittee of the Commerce 
Committee, we proposed that the date of 2024 be extended to 
2030 for exactly the reasons that you just articulated. That 
passed the Senate last year. It did not pass the House at that 
time. However, the Commerce Committee has just come forth last 
week with a NASA Authorization Bill, it was part of that 
pioneer bill, and it has an extension of the International 
Space Station to 2030.
    Now it might be of interest to you because you have seen 
some commentary in the news about the Russian Space Program 
saying, well, they are not sure that they are going to stay 
around after 2024. Let me remind you that they are just about 
to launch another major component of the space station. If 
those press speculations were true, I don't think we would see 
that, but I bring to you two conversations with Dmitry Rogozin 
as of this morning when I participated in this panel of global 
space organizations that is being held in St. Petersburg, 
Russia, and he was very bullish about cooperation.
    I would just, in passing, point out that no less in Keir 
Simmons' NBC interview of Putin in the last few days, Putin 
actually, President Putin actually talked very favorably about 
the cooperation with U.S. in space.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. Thank you. Thank you, Madam 
Chair. Again, congratulations.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Boozman. We are going 
to keep the Administrator very busy because he is now committed 
to go to New Hampshire, Kansas, Maryland, and Arkansas.
    Mr. Nelson. All 50 States, Madam Chair.
    Senator Shaheen. Good.
    Senator Manchin.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
    Administrator Nelson, so good to have you sitting there, 
and the position you are in, and we are feeling a lot better. I 
can tell you that.
    Every NASA mission relies on a team of scientists and 
engineers to design, manufacture, and verify that these 
spacecraft can indeed reach their intended target. You cannot 
just point a rocket at the sky and light the fuse. You have to 
verify that your trajectory reaches its destination and 
validate through complex calculations that it will work. In the 
1960s those were done by hand, and for our most important 
flights, it was Katherine Johnson, a West Virginia Native that 
did them.
    Today we use software to make those calculations. The 
NASA's Independent Verification and Validation Facility in 
Fairmont, West Virginia, bears her name and proudly carries her 
tradition, by ensuring that this software is safe, reliable, 
and can be trusted to ensure our missions are completed, and 
get home safely. Safety costs money as you know, and the IV&Vs 
budget has been flat for over a decade, flat for over a decade.
    To address gaps in funding in the past few years, NASA has 
required its mission directorates to pay a portion of IV&V's 
funding. That is just a kind of an if-and-and situation. I 
think the most logical solution is to increase the IV&V's 
budget so that NASA's mission, their directorates are not 
forced between their budgets and safety. Everybody is robbing 
Peter to pay Paul. I didn't know if it was on your radar 
screen. If you could look into that, try to be considerate and 
help us on that, sir.
    Mr. Nelson. I will certainly look into that, Senator. If I 
might, tell you a story----
    Senator Manchin. Okay.
    Mr. Nelson [continuing]. About Katherine Johnson; if you 
all happen to see the movie ``Hidden Figures''.
    Senator Manchin. That was the greatest.
    Mr. Nelson. It is an exact true story about how John Glenn, 
the first to climb into that Atlas rocket that had a 20 percent 
chance of failure, and it was the first time that they were 
using a computer on the trajectory. He did not want to rely on 
that. He wanted----
    Senator Manchin. A back up?
    Mr. Nelson [continuing]. A back up of Katherine Johnson to 
make her mathematical calculations by hand, to verify. That 
tradition, that legacy has now extended to what is in your 
State of West Virginia, the independent verification.
    Senator Manchin. Well, if you could help us on that, just 
so they have their independent funding, because they are 
relying on other sources just to survive.
    Mr. Nelson. Let's go visit that together.
    Senator Manchin. Okay. You are not that far. I can take you 
and, you and your lovely bride, and we will go enjoy a nice 
week.
    Mr. Nelson. Are you flying the airplane?
    Senator Manchin. I can if you want me to.
    Mr. Nelson. I had better check.
    Senator Capito. I would be careful about that. I am not 
sure we want that.
    Senator Manchin. In 2018 I was honored to--as you talk 
about Ms. Johnson--in 2018, Administrator, I was honored and 
had the privilege to meet Katherine Johnson and her family 
before her passing during a dedication ceremony for a statue of 
Ms. Johnson at West Virginia State University. It is a 
historically Black university in Charleston, West Virginia. 
That was her alma mater, she went there when she was 14.
    It is my hope that the students who pass by the statue 
every day are going to be reminded of her legacy and inspired 
to keep their passion for knowledge alive. After her passing 
last year, at 101, I led my colleagues in unanimously passing a 
resolution honoring the life and achievements of Katherine 
Johnson. That represents the very best of us breaking down the 
barriers of race, gender, ensuring safety of astronauts on 
countless missions during her decades, which you just 
mentioned, one of the most famous, John Glenn.
    Unfortunately, NASA today is still underrepresented by 
women of color, particularly in its most senior levels. I would 
ask how many Katherine Johnsons have we missed over the years? 
How many young women, people of color and others, from rural 
areas like West Virginia, could we have brought hidden figures 
like Katherine into the limelight?
    I know you are just coming on, and putting your staff 
together, and all of your ideas that you want to accomplish. I 
guess I would ask: What is NASA intending to, or doing to 
continue to encourage diversity, not just in NASA itself, but 
the STEM education of young children and students around the 
country?
    Mr. Nelson. This is very important to the President. It is 
very important to me. When I participated in the Space Shuttle 
Program, we saw the first effort, by the way, by an African-
American woman to help NASA bring diversity into the Astronaut 
Corps. It was in the Class of '78, first Space Shuttle 
astronaut class. The lady who played Lieutenant Uhura on Star 
Trek, the original Star Trek television series, Nichelle 
Nichols, after she had been an actress, she was approached by 
NASA to go out and recruit minority candidates and women.
    That is reflected in that first astronaut class, where it 
had--the astronauts basically had been test pilots, all White 
males before, and qualified women and qualified minorities did 
not even know that they would have a chance. They would not 
apply. She was successful in doing that. We see the results all 
throughout the Astronaut Corps.
    A lot of this goes back to STEM. You have got to provide in 
all communities, Science, Technology, Engineering, and 
Mathematics education. In your universities, you will have 
Space Grants, Senator, in West Virginia, and they come directly 
out of this program.
    Senator Manchin. We are going to reach out to you with 
that, and where we have WVU, and other universities there that 
have some--a little bit of activity there. I think it can be a 
lot more too. But look forward to working with you. I am so 
glad that you are settled back in, and back on The Hill with 
us. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Nelson. Thank you.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Manchin. We will do 
another round at least one more round, maybe two, for those 
people who want to stay. I would like to go back to climate 
science, Mr. Administrator, because as you know NASA is the 
biggest funder of climate science, and the government, but of 
course it is not the only one. NOAA, Energy, EPA, there are 
many other agencies that address the climate crisis. One of the 
challenges is how those agencies all work together to address 
climate, the research and what we can do to respond, can you 
talk to NASA's role in climate science, and how you see NASA 
working with those other agencies?
    Mr. Nelson. Senator, you have put your finger on the fact 
that people do not realize how inextricably entwined NASA is on 
all matters having to do with climate. You initially think of 
it as NOAA, the National Weather Service, which is a part of 
NOAA, the fact is that the spacecraft are designed, they are 
built, they are launched by NASA, and NOAA operates the 
spacecraft, looking for all the subtle changes, differences, 
weather reports, et cetera.
    You would be perhaps surprised to learn that two-thirds of 
NOAA's budget is paid to NASA, two-thirds of its total budget 
because of this uniqueness of us building and launching these 
spacecraft. The assets that are up there on orbit that have so 
helped us refine our weather reports, our predictions of 
disasters, of warning people to get out of the way of storms, 
of telling them about droughts, of telling them about floods, 
that is all there. But we are taking it to another level.
    For over the next 10 years, this was the President's 
announcement about two weeks ago in the press conference that 
occurred at FEMA, at the onslaught of the hurricane season, 
NASA is building five great observatories. Over this decade, 
they are going to be put up, and they all talk to each other, 
and they produce a 3D result by getting very, meticulous data 
from the land, the sea, the ice, and the atmosphere, and all of 
that is correlated to give us a 3D composite of what is 
happening to our atmosphere.
    When I say that word, I suddenly, in my mind's eye, flash 
back to floating in front of that spacecraft window, looking at 
the rim of the Earth and seeing that thin little film, which is 
the atmosphere that sustains all of life. That is what we want 
to know what is happening so that we can take corrective 
action.
    Senator Shaheen. I mentioned the fact that the University 
of New Hampshire is one of the leading research institutions 
with respect to heliophysics, which we know has a real impact 
on our weather patterns and what happens on Earth. Obviously 
continuing to support heliophysics is going to be very 
important as we are looking at climate science.
    Again, how does NASA plan to support future investments in 
space weather, and including that heliophysics and how does 
NASA interact with NOAA? You pointed out the really symbiotic 
relationship between NASA and NOAA, but do they share all that 
information when you talk about getting that picture of what is 
happening on Earth with respect to climate? Is that shared with 
NOAA with all the other agencies that are also doing climate 
research?
    Mr. Nelson. Yes, ma'am, and that is enhanced with a 
special--I don't know what it is called--but in effect a 
committee in the White House that makes sure that all of these 
environmental agencies that have data are sharing it with each 
other so that we know more precisely exactly what is happening 
to the planet.
    That, for example, that we can warn farmers that a drought 
is coming, or that we have got the ability to look down with 
these highly-sensitive instruments from space that can tell 
that farmer that there is a disease in the crop, or to look at 
that forest and say that there is a disease in that forest 
that, otherwise, we earthlings might not have known, but which 
was caught on the instruments in space.
    Yes, ma'am, that coordination is occurring. Our former 
colleague, John Kerry, is more involved in the international 
aspects of looking at that, but there is this attempt to 
coordinate all the agencies that do that. Of course, NASA is a 
main component of it because of what I just mentioned, even 
though people don't realize that. You think of NASA as space.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you.
    Senator Capito.
    Senator Capito. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    It is good to see you. I am sorry. I missed your 
confirmation hearing. I hope it was not too tough on you there. 
I think you kind of breezed through that one pretty, pretty 
well, but it is nice to see you.
    Mr. Nelson. I was fortunate.
    Senator Capito. I am pleased to see that what was formerly 
the Restore-L which is the OSAM-1, which is the funding level 
for $227 million in the budget request, there is great work 
being done in my home State, in West Virginia, at the West 
Virginia Robotic Technology Center. This is where you are 
working on restoring satellites in space, instead of just 
letting them, you know, drift off. It makes a whole lot of 
sense. I don't know if you can elaborate on that, and how that 
is going and why you feel that is a high priority for NASA?
    Mr. Nelson. Yes, ma'am. When you put up a highly-
sophisticated instrument, and it has a glitch, or say it starts 
running out of fuel, and here is this multi-million dollar 
spacecraft, we are now developing the technology that you can 
send out, basically, what the Hubble Rescue Mission did with 
astronauts to repair the Hubble defective lens, in this case to 
go robotically to the spacecraft that needs this mechanical 
fix, this additional gas in order to have the fuel that it 
needs to continue its life, or whatever repair is there. That 
is being done.
    The sophistication of spacecraft that can do this at a 
point way up there on orbit and you can rendezvous robotically, 
and fix that spacecraft. And that is what the project is that 
you are speaking about.
    Senator Capito. Right. As I said, some of that work is 
being done in West Virginia, and you read in the paper quite a 
bit, and it seems like more and more, that space debris is 
becoming a problem. I am sure with the OSAM-1, obviously since 
you can repair in space and elongate the life of a satellite, 
or something, obviously could help address some of that issue. 
I just want you to comment on that.
    Mr. Nelson. Yes ma'am. In this budget of the President, 
there is $227 million there for this project.
    Senator Capito. Right. I know Senator Manchin mentioned the 
IV&V Center in our State as well. We are very proud of the 
workforce there. They do a lot of internships with West 
Virginia University and Fairmont State. I think they still have 
capacity there to help across, really, all parts of government 
to do the verification that they do.
    I would just encourage the emphasis that you all at NASA 
put on that facility to increase the footprint, and utilize the 
workforce there. Because I mean, it is not like they are not--
they have got plenty to do, but they have some more capacity, I 
think, where they could do more. Keep that----
    Mr. Nelson. Yes, ma'am. I said to him that I hope the two 
of you will invite me to come. I would like to go with you. I 
want to see it.
    Senator Capito. Yes.
    Mr. Nelson. Then I told him a story about Katherine 
Johnson.
    Senator Capito. She was an amazing, amazing woman. Which 
brings me to my last thing I wanted to ask you, we had Peggy 
Whitson who was a very famous female--is a very famous female 
astronaut who, interestingly, is going be the pilot for one of 
the private ventures into space. I saw her name listed, and she 
was such an--I took her to classrooms--and such an inspiration 
to our youngest generation of particularly young women, girls. 
That's when she told the story that she became inspired by 
seeing somebody walk on the Moon when she was in second grade; 
that is when she decided she wanted to try to be an astronaut.
    We have also--did a remote with a female astronaut who was 
actually American who was in Russia at the time. I think I told 
you this on the phone. There again, to that next generation of 
dreamers and aspirational young women, is this a big area of 
influence for NASA in terms of trying to diversify the 
workforce in a lot of different ways? I am specifically asking 
about women. I know there is going to be one going to the Moon. 
I am excited about that.
    Mr. Nelson. Absolutely. I go back in my history, I have 
already recounted for the subcommittee that the first real 
breakthrough on astronauts in diversifying was the class of 
1978, the first Space Shuttle group of astronauts. A lot of it 
came from NASA having a contract with a former actress who 
played Lieutenant Uhura on Star Trek.
    Senator Capito. Oh, yes.
    Mr. Nelson. She went out and recruited women and 
minorities. That was quite a diverse class that broke the mould 
of the test pilot who could only be so high, and had to weigh 
so much, in those early space days. Now we have a very diverse 
Astronaut Corps. Same with the employees at NASA, we are being 
very mindful to diversify. This I believe is directed for the 
entire executive branch of government. I take it very, very 
seriously, as I did as Senator. We had--I think we had a 
percentage of more women in my Senate staff than only one other 
Senator. I take this very seriously.
    Senator Capito. Thank you. Thank you for being here with us 
today. Thank you.
    Mr. Nelson. Yes, ma'am.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Capito.
    Senator Moran.
    Senator Moran. Chairwoman, thank you very much.
    Mr. Administrator, two tracks I think they are out there 
when it comes to the Moon. The first is to get to the Moon and 
demonstrate that it can be done safely. Then the second is to 
plan and be prepared for a sustained presence, or reoccurring 
presence, perhaps, on the Moon. I understand NASA is preparing, 
and engaged in a sustainability study. What can you tell me 
about that? Can we expect to be briefed on what that is? Does 
anything that comes from that sustainability study change any 
of the appropriations requests for this fiscal year, the one we 
are talking about?
    Mr. Nelson. At the moment, no. However, everything is on 
hold until the GAO makes their announcement on the competition 
for the first demonstration lander. Shortly thereafter, we will 
produce the sustainability study. In part, that will lay out 
for you what is the realistic cost as we are going forward with 
all of these landers that we are going to be doing on the Moon 
in preparation for the Mars mission. The activity is on the 
Moon as well.
    It will demonstrate, what is it going to take to sustain 
this for us to be serious about going to Mars. Now, presently 
our technology to go to Mars is that it is going to take 10 
months or so to get there under conventional propulsion or even 
nuclear electric propulsion that we are starting to research. 
Once you get there, you are going to have to stay on the 
surface for at least a year, if not 2 years, because of the 
alignment of the planets, so that Mars and Earth get closer so 
that you can get back within that timeframe.
    If we had a breakthrough propulsion technology that we 
could sprint to Mars and get there, as some of the research 
being done, in 39 days, then you could be on the surface for a 
few weeks and then return. That technology has not been 
developed yet. These are the kinds of things: How are we going 
to protect astronauts from getting fried by a solar explosion. 
Earlier, one of the senators had mentioned about--well you, 
Madam Chair--heliosphere, that is this study of the Sun.
    Of course one of the things that we had to be concerned 
about is a nuclear explosion on the Sun, which is a solar 
explosion, and it sends out all of this radiation going all 
over space. If you don't have your astronauts protected then 
you can imagine. As a matter of fact, we just missed it on the 
Moon back in Apollo, a few weeks after we had landed on one of 
the missions there was a solar explosion, and there would have 
been some irradiated astronauts had we been exposed.
    When we are thinking about a long trip to Mars, or when we 
are thinking about having some kind of habitat on the Moon in 
preparation to learn about having a habitat on Mars, then that 
is another technology that we are going to have to create. We 
know lead does it, we know water does it, but those things are 
heavy. We are trying for a breakthrough. This is just another 
example of some of the technologies that we are going to have 
to develop as we venture further out into the cosmos.
    Senator Moran. Senator--Administrator, you highlight or 
point out that the trip to the Moon is certainly more than a 
trip to the Moon. It is related to future space exploration, at 
the moment generally focused on Mars. I mean, I would 
encourage, we want to make sure that our visit to the Moon is 
not just a visit, it is not just a planting a flag, or the 
bragging rights, that it lends itself to more on the Moon, on 
Mars and beyond.
    I assume that takes a balancing act in trying to figure out 
what it is we do today in preparation for tomorrow. And you 
have described that. Is there anything else I should know about 
that, or----?
    Mr. Nelson. The reason we want to use the Moon in 
preparation to go to Mars, is that the Moon is 3 days away, and 
Mars is months and months away. We can use the properties of an 
airless vacuum on the Moon with one-sixth gravity in 
preparation for long-duration space flight and habitation on 
the surface of Mars, one-third gravity.
    It is going to get--it is going to get very technically 
complicated to do that. I look forward to getting educated on 
it, and bring some of those smart people to this subcommittee 
to tell you about what all we are going to have to do. In a 
spacecraft, for example, if it took us 10 months to Mars, and 
suddenly they land and they are in one-third gravity, what is 
that long trip in zero gravity? Can we start some kind of 
cylindrical spacecraft that will rotate with centrifugal force 
that would create an artificial gravity that would make that 
long duration space flight more palatable?
    We are seeing what long-duration space flight does in the 
Space Station. It is one of the reasons for having the Space 
Station right now in low-Earth orbit. See what that does to the 
human body.
    Senator Moran. I appreciate your suggestion of bringing 
those scientists and experts, not intending to speak for the 
chair, but I think we would both be very interested in that 
kind of opportunity. My final, concluding question--my 
concluding question, James Webb Telescope, are we behind--are 
the challenges that have delayed us for so long, seemingly 
behind us?
    Mr. Nelson. I certainly hope so, and I believe so. The most 
recent report that you have heard that there is a delay this is 
very minor, and it has nothing to do with the spacecraft or the 
rocket. It has to do with the preparation of the rocket by the 
Ariane folks, and it is the Ariane rocket, because they have 
only got one vehicle assembly building, and they have got two 
Ariane rocket launchings before the Telescope launching.
    It has only been moved from October 31, two weeks later, to 
the middle of November. That is another Co-Del that you all may 
want to consider going to.
    Senator Moran. What is the launch date?
    Mr. Nelson. This November.
    Senator Moran. November?
    Mr. Nelson. This November. By the way, once that is up 
there, this will just blow your mind. The universe is 13.5 
billion years old. This telescope is going to look back in time 
to the first 150 million years since the big bang and capture 
the light from that time. In other words, it is going to look 
back in time, 13.35 billion years. What it is going to show us 
is: What did it look like? What was the composition at the very 
formation of the first galaxies?
    That is going to be revolutionary what we find out about 
astrophysics and astronomy. You know that we are picking up 
exoplanets already with the Hubble Space Telescope. We are 
seeing conditions around other--Sun, stars, where they have 
planets that revolve about them. It is thought that we are 
discovering other worlds that could be like our own. As we 
explore our own solar system, we are going to Venus, and we are 
going to see why does that have such a thick prohibitive 
atmosphere that heats it up so that it will melt lead on the 
surface.
    It is: Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, a habitable planet, then 
Mars an uninhabitable planet that has a very thin atmosphere, 1 
percent of Earth's atmosphere. Why is that like that? Are there 
elements in Venus and Mars that in these billions of years of 
development of what we know as our solar system, that there 
might have been the elements of life there that will give us 
the clues about all of these other solar systems in these other 
galaxies. It is going to be an exciting time. That is what the 
Webb Telescope is going to do for us.
    Senator Moran. Administrator, thank you for your brevity. 
Yes, thank you for your smile. I saw the Perseverance landing 
at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and at that point in time 
also visited the Webb, James Webb Telescope just before it was 
folded up and ready to be moved for transport. It is an 
exciting circumstance and a great opportunity for knowledge and 
practicality.
    Chairwoman, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Administrator.
    Senator Shaheen. Well, thank you very much. I have just one 
more area that I would like to pursue. Mr. Administrator, the 
direction of this subcommittee, as I am sure you are aware, the 
GAO, the Government Accountability Office, analyzes the cost 
and schedule performance of major NASA projects, anything more 
than--costs more than $250 million, and they found that for the 
fifth year in a row, both costs and schedule deteriorated. 
While I know that COVID contributed in the last year, the 
decline over those 5 years cannot be attributed to COVID alone. 
Can you tell us what you are doing to improve project 
management, particularly in those high-risk, high-cost 
projects?
    Mr. Nelson. Yes, ma'am. Think back to what I said, space is 
hard, and when you develop very sophisticated things often you 
get delays, and if it is not a fixed-price contract, like we 
made the landing on the Moon with humans, that is fixed price, 
and you often get these cost overruns. I am committed to 
continue to try to improve NASA's acquisition management 
discipline. I think there is a lot still to be done on that.
    Senator Shaheen. Clearly.
    Mr. Nelson. I am going to try. GAO has recognized that NASA 
has made significant progress in their latest 2021 iteration of 
their high risk--in their high-risk report, and specifically 
NASA was credited for improvement in two of five criteria 
areas; leadership commitment, and monitoring, that GAO 
considers as they determine NASA's future standing on their 
high-risk report. But, you know, more has to be done.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you. I appreciate your commitment to 
addressing this. I guess my final question is: Do you think 
that 2024 is a realistic date for a return to the Moon?
    Mr. Nelson. It is our goal. Space is hard, as I just said. 
When you are pressing the edge of the envelope often you get 
delays and you get technical things that happen that you did 
not anticipate. The goal is still 2024.
    Senator Shaheen. I will take that as a maybe.
    Mr. Nelson. Yes, ma'am.

                     ADDITIONAL COMMITTEE QUESTIONS

    Senator Shaheen. Well, thank you very much for your 
testimony this afternoon. If there are no further questions, 
senators have until June 22 to submit additional questions for 
the record, and we expect and request that NASA would respond 
to those questions within 30 days.
    [The following questions were not asked at the hearing, but 
were submitted to the National Aeronautics and Space 
Administration for response subsequent to the hearing:]
                Questions Submitted to Hon. Bill Nelson
            Questions Submitted by Senator Joe Manchin, III
   a review of the fiscal year 2022 budget request for the national 
                  aeronautics and space administration
    Question 1. Located just down the road from the Katherine Johnson 
IV&V Facility, the West Virginia Robotics Technology Center (WVRTC) has 
been the lead academic partner for NASA's Restore-L satellite servicing 
mission since 2009.
    Two years ago, NASA made the decision to combine the Restore-L 
satellite servicing mission with the Space Infrastructure Dexterous 
Robot (SPIDER), which will demonstrate manufacturing and assembly of a 
communications antenna in space. Both of these programs will be 
launched onboard the On-Orbit Servicing, Assembly, and Manufacturing 1 
(OSAM-1) spacecraft.
    I applaud NASA and its industry partners like Maxar for thinking 
outside the box to achieve cost-savings and ensure these critical 
programs move forward.

    A. Can you tell me how that program is progressing?

          Answer. In fiscal year 2021, OSAM-1 continued the development 
        of the spacecraft bus and completed the spacecraft propulsion 
        module integration. Seven subsystem critical design reviews 
        were successfully conducted. The SPIDER payload held its 
        Critical Design Review in February 2021 and initiated payload 
        and integration activities. The project also completed 
        construction of the Mission Operations Center at Goddard Space 
        Flight Center (GSFC). Psionic LLC was awarded a non-exclusive, 
        commercial license for the OSAM-1 Kodiak Lidar to enhance their 
        capabilities for precision navigation.
          OSAM-1 successfully completed an integrated flight 
        demonstration mission Critical Design Review in February 2022 
        and the Servicing Payload integration will commence. The 
        spacecraft mechanical and electrical integration is in progress 
        and the spacecraft bus and the SPIDER pallet will be integrated 
        in fiscal year 2022. OSAM-1 will continue to leverage 
        Technology Transfer mechanisms and pursue partnerships with 
        interested U.S. companies through Space Act Agreements to 
        transfer knowledge and capabilities to industry.

    B. Is the current budget of $227 million sufficient to keep the 
launch on track?

          Answer. The $227 million requested in NASA's budget is 
        sufficient for fiscal year 2022. Due to COVID-19, the project 
        has been experiencing cost, technical and schedule issues, 
        forcing the project to replan. The project recently completed 
        its replan efforts to incorporate COVID-19 impacts. A breach 
        notification was sent to Congress on February 14, 2022.

    Question 2. Programs like NASA's Established Program to Stimulate 
Competitive Research, known as EPSCoR, are critically important for 
building research capacity in my state. EPSCoR in particular is aimed 
at increasing research capacity in States that have traditionally 
received lower amounts of research funding from the Federal Government. 
As someone from an EPSCoR State, you understand the value of this 
program in ensuring that States like West Virginia get continued 
research infrastructure funding so that they can make meaningful 
contributions to NASA moving forward.
    In West Virginia, NASA funding allowed students and researchers to 
continue with various research projects in the areas of advanced 
materials and robotics.

    A. Do you believe that sustained funding for programs like NASA 
EPSCoR will be sufficient for the growing demands for STEM?

          Answer. EPSCoR is one of many government-funded programs that 
        are supporting STEM. Specific to West Virginia, the state 
        continues to be a recipient of EPSCoR funds. The WV EPSCoR site 
        is located at West Virginia University. OSTEM/EPSCoR currently 
        has an investment of $4,949,997 in active research awards in 
        West Virginia. This year (fiscal year 2022) West Virginia has 
        participated in the Research Infrastructure Development (RID) 
        solicitation resulting in a $1,000,000 award with a 5-year 
        period of performance, and thus far they submitted two 
        proposals to the Rapid Response Research solicitation 
        (currently in review).

    Question 3. West Virginia isn't just helping validate the software 
and design the robotics for our space programs, West Virginia 
manufacturers are also key suppliers for the Artemis program's return 
to the Moon.
    For example, the Constellium plant in Ravenswood, West Virginia 
provides the aluminum plating and material for Boeing's Space Launch 
System (SLS), ULA's Vulcan Centaur, Blue Origin's New Glenn, and the 
Space X Falcon vehicles. They are working with Lockheed on the Orion 
vehicle and the Artemis Gateway Habitat. I couldn't be more proud that 
aluminum manufactured in West Virginia and made by West Virginians will 
form the very basis of the spacecraft that will take Americans to the 
moon and beyond.

          Answer. Motion Industries, Inc., of Huntington, West 
        Virginia, supplies fasteners to Boeing for the Space Launch 
        System rocket.
          Constellium is still an Artemis provider, supporting NASA's 
        Space Launch System rocket and Orion spacecraft, the vehicles 
        that will ultimately send humans farther into deep space than 
        ever before. Both programs use Constellium's innovative 
        aluminum-lithium alloy solution, Airware. Constellium has the 
        unique capability to produce very wide and thick plates for 
        space modules. Airware's inherent low density, high-specific 
        stiffness, strength and excellent mechanical properties provide 
        the high-performance characteristics required especially during 
        the demanding launch and landing phases.
                                 ______
                                 
            Questions Submitted by Senator Chris Van Hollen
    Question 1. The James Webb Space Telescope will build on Hubble's 
discoveries, allowing us to see back in time 13.5 billion years to 
explore the creation of galaxies and stars. NASA Goddard has led the 
work on this mission, and the Space Telescope Science Institute will 
lead mission operations after its launch. It has also has served as an 
example of international collaboration, with NASA working with the 
European Space Agency and the Canadian Space Agency.
    With the recent concerns regarding Ariane 5 that may impact the 
launch date of Webb, how is NASA working with the European Space Agency 
to ensure an on-schedule and successful launch?

          Answer. NASA worked closely with partners at the European 
        Space Agency and Arianespace to ensure a successful launch of 
        the James Webb Space Telescope on December 25, 2021. Webb is 
        currently undergoing commissioning at its final location in 
        space and is expected to produce the first scientific images in 
        summer of 2022.

    Question 2. The Roman Telescope is expected to revolutionize our 
understanding of deep space with unprecedented detail and will 
dramatically increase the speed in which scientists have access to data 
on some of our universe's greatest mysteries. In 2010, the Roman 
Telescope was the top priority for the next decade of astronomy by the 
National Research Council Decadal Survey committee on Astronomy and 
Astrophysics.
    Does the Roman Telescope remain an important priority for NASA?

          Answer. Roman remains a top priority for NASA's Science 
        Mission Directorate, and its fiscal year 22 funding by Congress 
        will allow the project to keep making progress toward a May 
        2027 launch readiness date.

    Question 3. In 2017, PFAS were detected in Wallops Flight Facility 
and the Town of Chincoteague drinking water wells, and I have voiced my 
concerns to the previous administration over this issue. I understand 
NASA is conducting groundwater testing and had been installing a 
groundwater treatment system for the Town of Chincoteague.
    What is NASA doing to continue monitoring the environmental safety 
of WFF and the surrounding communities?

          Answer. NASA continues to conduct groundwater testing of the 
        Wallops Flight Facility (WFF) and the Town of Chincoteague's 
        drinking water and its supply wells. NASA's WFF stopped using 
        two drinking water supply wells on the WFF Main Base when PFAS 
        were detected below the Environmental Protection Agency's 
        Lifetime Health Advisory levels in 2017 and 2019. In February 
        2022, NASA installed a new replacement well and began 
        construction to connect the new well to the WFF Main Base 
        drinking water system. As of February 28, 2022, the groundwater 
        treatment system for the Town has treated over 34 million 
        gallons of water, and ongoing testing continues to show the 
        system is effectively removing PFAS to below detection levels.

    Question 4. I believe it is important that the Planetary Science 
program protect the timelines and funding for Discovery and New 
Frontiers. These programs provide taxpayers and scientists with 
missions that address key questions about our solar system, using fewer 
resources and shorter development time. Mission proposals are led by 
scientists, can include contributions from industry, universities, and 
government labs, and are assessed for selection through a competitive, 
peer review process. In 2019, the Applied Physics Laboratory's 
Dragonfly, which will explore Saturn's moon Titan, was selected as the 
New Frontiers program's fourth mission. Earlier this month, NASA 
announced its 2019 Discovery program competition selections--Goddard's 
DAVINCI+ and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory's VERITAS--to go to Venus.
    Can you commit to protect the selection process and timelines so 
that New Frontiers maintains two selections per decade, as the 
Planetary Science Decadal Survey recommends, and Discovery makes a new 
announcement of opportunity approximately every 2 years, the 
expectation when both programs were created by Congress more than two 
decades ago?

          Answer. NASA strongly concurs with the importance of the New 
        Frontiers and Discovery cadence recommended by the Planetary 
        Science Decadal Survey, but also needs to take into account the 
        ability of the Planetary Science budget to support any selected 
        missions from a new Announcement of Opportunity (AO) and 
        funding needs from missions already in development such as the 
        Dragonfly mission. NASA has proceeded cautiously given COVID-19 
        impacts and continued to support previously selected missions.
          NASA's Discovery 2019 AO in planetary science remained on 
        schedule, despite COVID-19, leading to the selection of DAVINCI 
        and VERITAS in June 2021. NASA had to announce last year, 
        however, that the final New Frontiers-5 (NF5) AO would need to 
        be delayed by approximately 2 years and move to fall 2024.
          NASA is pleased to announce that the fiscal year 2023 
        President's budget request would advance the final NF5 AO 
        release date forward to no earlier than 2023. The next 
        Discovery AO would follow this NF5 call. This timing would 
        allow the agency to respond to recommendations in the new 
        Planetary Science and Astrobiology Decadal Survey for 2023-2032 
        and identify priorities for these opportunities.

                          SUBCOMMITTEE RECESS

    Senator Shaheen. The subcommittee now stands in recess 
until Wednesday, June 23, when we will hold a hearing on the 
budget request of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Thank 
you.
    [Whereupon, at 3:32 p.m., Tuesday, June 15, the 
subcommittee was recessed, to reconvene subject to the call of 
the Chair.]