[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
BEHIND ENEMY LINES: LIFE IN UKRAINE'S NEWLY OCCUPIED TERRITORIES
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND
COOPERATION IN EUROPE
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
July 20, 2022
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Printed for the use of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in
Europe
[CSCE117-19]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via www.csce.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
57-783 WASHINGTON : 2025
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COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION
U.S. SENATE U.S. HOUSE
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland STEVE COHEN, Tennessee Co-Chairman
Chairman JOE WILSON, South Carolina Ranking
ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi Member
Ranking Member
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama
JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas EMANUEL CLEAVER II, Missouri
TIM SCOTT, South Carolina BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona
TINA SMITH, Minnesota RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina
THOM TILLIS, North Carolina GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island MARC A. VEASEY, Texas
EXECUTIVE BRANCH
Department of State - to be appointed
Department of Defense - to be appointed
Department of Commerce - to be appointed
C O N T E N T S
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Page
COMMISSIONERS
Hon. Benjamin L. Cardin, Chairman, from Maryland................. 1
Hon. Steve Cohen, Co-Chairman, from Tennessee.................... 3
Hon. Joe Wilson, Ranking Member, from South Carolina............. 5
Hon. Richard Blumenthal, from Connecticut........................ 10
Hon. Jeanne Shaheen, from New Hampshire.......................... 12
Hon. Brian Fitzpatrick, from Pennsylvania........................ 14
WITNESSES
Michael Carpenter, Permanent Representative and Ambassador of the
United States to the Organization for Security and Cooperation
in Europe...................................................... 6
Oleksiy Goncharenko, Member of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine and
Vice President of the Committee on Migration and Refugees,
Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe................ 16
Olga Aivazovska, Head of the Board Civil Network OPORA and Co-
Founder, International Center for Ukrainian Victory............ 18
BEHIND ENEMY LINES: LIFE IN UKRAINE'S NEWLY OCCUPIED TERRITORIES
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COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN
EUROPE,
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION,
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Wednesday, July 20, 2022.
The hearing was held from 2:34 p.m. to 4:01 p.m., Room 562,
Dirksen Senate Office Building, Washington, DC, Senator
Benjamin L. Cardin [D-MD], Chairman, Commission for Security
and Cooperation in Europe, presiding.
Committee Members Present: Senator Benjamin L. Cardin [D-
MD], Chairman; Representative Steve Cohen [D-TN], Co-Chairman;
Representative Joe Wilson [R-SC], Ranking Member;
Representative Robert B. Aderholt [R-AL] Senator Richard
Blumenthal [D-CT]; Representative Brian Fitzpatrick [R-PA];
Senator Jeanne Shaheen [D-NH].
Witnesses: Michael Carpenter, Permanent Representative and
Ambassador of the United States to the Organization for
Security and Cooperation in Europe; Oleksiy Goncharenko, Member
of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine and Vice President of the
Committee on Migration and Refugees, Parliamentary Assembly of
the Council of Europe; Olga Aivazovska, Head of the Board Civil
Network OPORA and Co-Founder, International Center for
Ukrainian Victory.
OPENING STATEMENT OF BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATE,
FROM MARYLAND
Chairman Cardin: The Helsinki Commission will come to
order. Let me first acknowledge the co-chair, Congressman
Cohen, who is with us today, and Congressman Aderholt, who has
also joined us. I know we will be joined by other members of
the Commission.
We have two panels today. We are going to have Ambassador
Carpenter virtually, and then we have a second panel. We will
be disrupted a little bit because there are a couple votes on
the floor of the U.S. Senate. The first vote, which was
supposed to start at 2:30, will start a little bit later, so I
decided that we would start the hearing on time.
I want to first acknowledge and thank my colleagues who
participated in the Parliamentary Assembly annual meeting in
Birmingham. It was very, very successful. I know Congressman
Cohen was there. I believe Congressman Aderholt was there also.
The United States raised many important issues, not the least
of which was Russia's violations of every single Helsinki Final
Act commitment in their war in Ukraine. I just really wanted to
acknowledge the success of that in-person meeting. It is the
first one we have had in a couple years, and I was proud of the
U.S. delegation.
Prior to that, there was a hearing conducted, chaired by
Senator Wicker, in Constanta, Romania, on Black Sea security,
which was an extremely important opportunity for us to
demonstrate the importance of the security of the Black Sea
states. I thank all those who participated in that hearing.
As a followup, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee held
a hearing today in regards to food insecurity. I would say the
primary focus of that hearing dealt with Russia using food as a
weapon and what it is doing to block the availability of
Ukrainian agriculture to the global community. We recognize
that there is a lot of work that we need to do in regards to
that particular issue.
I just wanted to mention those two issues today. We are
going to be talking about ``Behind Enemy Lines: Life in
Ukraine's Occupied Territories''--under Russian control. I
might tell everyone here that this has been one of a series of
hearings that we have held in the Helsinki Commission. We have
held several hearings, and, yes, we are all very much committed
to doing everything we can to help the Ukrainians defend
themselves. We are doing everything we can to provide the
military equipment for that defense. We are providing
humanitarian assistance for those who have been displaced in
Ukraine and in other countries as a result of Russia's war. We
also have provided help in regards to dealing with compiling
evidence, and we are going to demand accountability.
The Helsinki Commission looks at a lot of different
factors, but I would tell you that we have really been focused
on the atrocities being committed by Russia and the impact that
it has had on the civilian population. We had a hearing that
dealt with the displaced people and their vulnerabilities to
trafficking, et cetera. We have had a hearing on accountability
as it relates to war crimes and crimes against humanity. This
hearing is the latest in the series, in which we will be
talking about the vulnerability of those who are under Russian
control today. This hearing will focus on that particular
issue, and I am very pleased that we have, really, experts who
can help us navigate the current situation.
Let me point out the circumstances in Ukraine are far from
safe today. I am thinking last week's strike and the horrifying
photo of the little girl and her stroller. She was killed by
blasts--she was 4 years old--just walking with her mother on a
summer morning. That was in territory that is not controlled by
Russia. Think about what is happening where Russia's
controlling the territory.
We all know that these are not accidental Russian strikes.
Hitting public places in broad daylight, far from any kind of
military target, is a deliberate attempt to terrorize
civilians. Vladimir Putin and those who do his bidding not only
do not care about civilian casualties, they are actively
seeking to kill and destroy. As we have witnessed in prior
hearings, and I am sure we will discuss today, these actions,
in combination with attempts to destroy Ukrainian culture,
suggest genocidal intent. Ukrainians under occupation in the
south, along the Black Sea coast, and in the east, and Crimea
are subjected to particular cruelty. They are interrogated and
abused in Russian filtration camps. Their rights to freedom in
movement and speech are violated. In some areas, like Mariupol,
those remaining in the destroyed city have no stable sources of
food, clean water, or shelter. Many of them are elderly.
Additionally, over a million Ukrainians have been deported to
Russia, including thousands of children, some unaccompanied,
who are especially vulnerable.
Senator Risch and I introduced today a resolution--I am
pleased that we were joined by Senators Shaheen and Graham,
Senators Portman and Blumenthal--that would be a resolution
making it clear that Russia has committed genocide and needs to
be held accountable for it. We quote in our resolution several
reports, but one that was participated by the Raoul Wallenberg
Centre for Human Rights pointed out that Russia has violated
Articles 2 and 3 of the Genocide Convention treaty.
The OSCE's most recent Moscow Mechanism report, which was
released last week, chronicles in detail the crimes against
humanity committed by Russian soldiers from April 1st to June
25, including the mass murders in Bucha and Irpin. It is
sickening to read, but recording these atrocities is
indefinitely valuable as we seek justice.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on the
situation on the ground and how the United States can continue
to support Ukraine.
With that, I will yield to the co-chair of the Helsinki
Commission, Congressman Cohen.
STATEMENT OF STEVE COHEN, U.S. HOUSE, FROM TENNESSEE
Representative Cohen: Thank you, Mr. Chair, To our
witnesses, both via technology and Zoom, and those in person,
thank you for being with us today. This is an important
hearing, and I am pleased that we are having this today. It is
clear that what Putin has done since he launched his full-scale
invasion of Ukraine, that his goal was to erase Ukrainian
identity. Yes, he wants to extend Russia's parameters in the
whole spirit of Peter the Great, but just as equally, he wants
to destroy the Ukrainian people for having the audacity to
declare themselves to be an independent nation, which they have
been for now 30 years, and to--not to capitulate to his wants
and desires.
He called Ukrainians ``Nazis.'' We know that is absurd, but
that is what Russians do to rev up their populace, and it is
like code for Republicans on the Judiciary Committee talking
about ``Defund the police.'' I mean, it is just code stuff to
stir up your base and use it as a jingoistic method of getting
support from your own. That is just an absurd use of the term
``Nazi,'' and it is despicable that he would do such a thing
because it disgraces the memory of the victims of the
Holocaust.
He wants to deny Ukraine's existence as an independent
country, and I guess even as what it has historically been,
because lately he has shown he is incorporating parts of
Ukraine that are occupied into Russia now. He wants to destroy
all ideas that Ukraine is, was, or will be a nation. He is
serious about accomplishing his goals. He has set about it and
has no remorse. I think remorse and shame are two things that
are absent his psyche.
He is removing children, as has been mentioned, from
Ukraine. As many as 260,000 have been deported, separated from
their parents, and rehomed with Russians, and reprogrammed to
think of themselves as Russians--being taught the Russian
language, being taught the Russian history, and I guess being
taught just like the Russian children are being taught now the
history of Russia starting with the greatness of Putin and the
history of the nationalism and the Great Patriotic War and all
of the warlike images that can be conjured up to make the
children proud to be Russians.
There are credible reports that they have these filtration
camps and the dastardly deeds that they are committing there--
human rights violations, arbitrary detentions, rapes, killings,
and torture. These crimes are war crimes, and they are
genocidal actions. We have seen that clearly for quite a while,
documented evidence of Putin's actions as genocide. The OSCE
Moscow Mechanism's experts' report, the second such report
since the war started, unfortunately, substantiated the claims
of atrocities that we heard about in Bucha and Irpin.
President Biden kind of--it appeared to be a slip when he
was in Poland and said something about Putin's war as a
genocide, but we know sometimes Biden kind of takes slips to
let policy creep ahead, and I think he did that there. After he
did that, I introduced a resolution in the House with others
recognizing Russia's actions in Ukraine as a genocide. Ranking
Member Wilson joined me on that, and members Veasey, Hudson,
and Fitzpatrick did as well. We then appreciate, also, Senator
Cardin for introducing our companion bill today with Mr. Wicker
and Commissioners Shaheen and Blumenthal.
Mr. Blumenthal makes a proper entrance on cue.
Senator Blumenthal: [Off mic.]
Representative Cohen: Exactly.
Thank you.
The pretext of the attempt to carry out genocide is
certainly based on what we know so far. Putin just wants to
destroy the country and is using terrorist tactics to try to
get the country to capitulate. If he has not stopped here, he
will have to be stopped somewhere else. It is clear that he has
intent to fulfill what he thinks is his destiny. Next, I think
would be Moldova, maybe Georgia. The Baltics are certainly
countries that at one time were part of the Soviet Union, and
he sees it as part of the greater Russia, even though Lithuania
was a greater empire than Moscow was an empire at the time.
Then--he does not understand that either, but he wants Estonia.
He wants Lithuania. He wants Latvia. He probably would
certainly like to go beyond those countries and go to Poland,
which was also part of the Soviet Union. He needs to be
stopped, or else--he is our enemy.
It is amazing. Mitt Romney was right. It was a long time
ago, might have been different reasons. The bottom line is when
he said Russia was our greatest foe, he was right.
I support Ukraine and will continue to do so. I admire the
bravery of the people of Ukraine. I appreciated the First
Lady's addressing Members of Congress who could come today. We
had a busy schedule, but she made herself available, and I
appreciate that happening.
Ukraine is a great inspiration to the free world. I
appreciate the little souvenirs, mementos, tchotchkes, as some
of us would call them, that I have been given. One is the stamp
with the sailors on Snake Island looking out at the Moskva and
saying--[makes sound]--Russia. That is a nice stamp. The other
was the piece of the Russian helicopter that had been shot
down, part of a keychain. I thank you for that very nice token
and remembrance, and thought about the Ukrainian people and the
bravery they have had. I appreciate it, and it shows what our
missiles and our military have done to help in the fight in
Ukraine. We need to do more and more and more.
With that, I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairman Cardin: Thank you, Congressman Cohen.
We are joined by the ranking Republican member in the
House, Congressman Wilson, by Webex.
STATEMENT BY WEBEX OF JOE WILSON, U.S. HOUSE, FROM SOUTH
CAROLINA
Representative Wilson: [Off mic]--Putin's genocidal war
against sovereign Ukraine continues, two things remain very
critical: One, arming the courageous people of Ukraine in their
heroic resistance for victory; and two, accountability for the
gross violations of human rights committed by Putin's fellow
criminals.
The image of the overturned and bloodied stroller this week
pushed by 4--year-old Lisa Dmytrieva, murdered senselessly by a
Russian cruise missile launched from a submarine in the Black
Sea, encapsulates the depravity of the war. From the beginning,
civilians have been a target of the occupying force. Buildings
and vehicles marked as places of refuge for children have been
targeted and destroyed. Towns have been razed to the ground,
basic life-sustaining resources sabotaged. All of this for
Putin's personal pursuit of oil, money, and power, and a false
Soviet revisionist fantasy that is completely detached from
reality.
In occupied territories, civilians are subject to
unthinkable horrors by forces that demonstrate no real
knowledge of Ukraine, its population, or its customs. In Bucha,
the images of the civilians shot with their hands tied behind
their backs and geospatial evidence of mass graves shocked the
world. Months have gone by since this massacre, and these
atrocities continue. Occupying forces have destroyed textbooks
and literature, established reeducation programs for civilians,
and even required Ukrainians attempting to bury their deceased
relatives to surrender passports and pledge allegiance to the
Russian Federation. Over a million Ukrainian citizens have been
forcibly deported to Russia from occupied regions. Infants and
children are adopted out to Russian families with the goal of
erasing their identities. Passports and documentation are
destroyed. The list of war crimes is, sadly, endless.
Documentation is key, but that is also under threat in
occupied regions. There is a clear effort to take control of
the media and forcibly publish pro-Putin propaganda. Anyone who
stands in the way will be killed. This is a clear contrast of
the worldwide conflict of authoritarianism--rule of gun--
against democracy, rule of law.
The only option for peace going forward is Ukraine's
victory. History reminds us that Putin upholds no agreements
and adheres to no international norms. The cause of stopping
this horrible genocide is the noblest of them all. I appreciate
each of our witnesses and their commitments to democracy and
freedom. I look forward to hearing from each of you. It has
just been so refreshing to see the bipartisan efforts of our
service in Congress on this issue with the Helsinki Commission.
I yield back.
Chairman Cardin: I thank Congressman Wilson for his
leadership on the committee.
I will just acknowledge Senator Blumenthal, one of our
Commission members, is also with us today.
We will now start with the first panel. As I indicated
before, we have two panels.
Our first panel will consist of Hon. Michael Carpenter,
permanent representative and U.S. Ambassador to the
Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. He is
joining us virtually from his post in Vienna. Prior to his
current appointment, Ambassador Carpenter was the managing
director of the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global
Engagement at the University of Pennsylvania. From 2015 to
2017, Dr. Carpenter served in the Pentagon as deputy assistant
secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine, Eurasia, and
conventional arms control. Previously, he worked in the White
House as a foreign policy advisor to then-Vice President Biden
and as a director for Russia at the National Security Council.
Prior to his White House jobs, Ambassador Carpenter was a
career Foreign Service officer with the State Department.
Ambassador Carpenter, I know that you are with us in spirit
and with us virtually. Pleased to hear from you.
TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL CARPENTER, PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVE AND
AMBASSADOR OF THE UNITED STATES TO THE ORGANIZATION FOR
SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE
Mr. Carpenter: Thank you, Chairman Cardin, Co-Chairman
Cohen, Ranking Member Wilson, and distinguished members of the
Commission. I greatly appreciate this opportunity to appear
before you today to address the topic of life in Ukraine's
newly occupied territories and how the OSCE can best support
Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity in the context
of Russian aggression.
Mr. Chairman, the stakes of Russia's war on Ukraine could
not be any higher. Obviously, for Ukraine, this is an
existential struggle. The outcome of this war will determine
whether Ukraine survives as an independent nation-State, but
the stakes extend far beyond Ukraine. Throughout the OSCE
region, many participating states have reasons to fear Russia's
imperial ambitions because they know they too could become
targets of Russian attacks if the Kremlin were to militarily be
successful in Ukraine.
The ramifications for the Indo-Pacific and other regions
are also significant as the PRC and other states watch to see
whether Russia is successful at imposing its will on its
peaceful neighbor. Indeed, the war has implications for the
very sanctity of the international order, including and perhaps
most especially the principle that borders cannot be changed by
force. There is also the fact that a permanent member of the
U.N. Security Council is engaging in alleged war crimes, as
well as egregious violations of international humanitarian law
and international human rights law.
At the OSCE, we are using the organization to hold Russia
accountable for its egregious violations of the Helsinki Final
Act, international humanitarian law, and international human
rights law. At the OSCE Permanent Council as well as at the
Forum for Security Cooperation, we have effectively isolated
Russia. With the--with only the partial and qualified exception
of Belarus, which disingenuously claims not to be involved in
this war because it is so unpopular back home, no participating
State has ever voiced a defense of Russia's aggression against
Ukraine. This is encouraging and confirms that our diplomatic
efforts must remain vigorous and forceful in exposing Russia's
atrocities and war aims.
Since February 24, the OSCE has also played a leading role
in documenting Russia's violations of international
humanitarian law and violations and abuses of human rights.
Forty five participating states have twice now invoked the
Moscow mechanism, resulting in the deployment of two fact-
finding missions. These reports document atrocities including
international humanitarian law violations and human rights
violations and abuses perpetrated by Russia's forces, including
through its filtration operations and forced deportations of
Ukrainian civilians to Russia, as well as summary executions,
widespread torture, and rape of civilians.
I should note that just today, ODIHR, the Office of
Democratic Institutions and Human Rights, has also released a
comprehensive report based on eyewitness interviews of Russia's
violations of international humanitarian law and international
human rights law, and I commend it to you. The two Moscow
Mechanism missions and the ODIHR report not only concluded that
war crimes were committed by members of Russia's forces, but
also that some patterns of violent acts committed by members of
Russian forces in Ukraine--such as targeting killings and
enforced disappearances--qualify as, ``widespread or systematic
attacks directed against a civilian population.'' That--any
single violent act of this type committed as part of such an
attack and with the knowledge of it--constitutes a crime
against humanity.
With our support, the OSCE has reestablished an on-the-
ground presence in Ukraine, with a project coordinator in
Ukraine, or PCU, which returned in April, as well as with
ODIHR's human rights monitors who began documenting human
rights abuses in Ukraine the same month. Following Russia's
blocking of the PCU's mandate renewal at the end of June, we
have been working closely with our allies and partners to
preserve the PCU's critical programmatic activities in Ukraine.
The renewed OSCE field presence we establish in Ukraine will
have to be efficient, scalable, and replicable in the event
that the mandates of other OSCE field missions are blocked by
Russia in the future, particularly in those countries whose
sovereignty and democratic development are most vulnerable to
Russia's malign behavior.
All of our activities at the OSCE to document Russia's
atrocities, expose Russia's disinformation, and preserve the
OSCE's field operations in Ukraine are components of the
administration's strategy to help Ukraine win, to preserve its
sovereignty, territorial integrity, and continue on its path to
Euro-Atlantic integration. My mission will continue closely
engaging and coordinating with like-minded participating states
to build support for tightening sanctions and export controls
on Russia.
We will likely--we will likewise continue using our
Permanent Council statements as a platform to rally allies and
partners to provide more military, humanitarian, and economic
assistance to Ukraine. We will never allow participating states
to become numb to the daily atrocities committed by Russia's
forces and the devastation the war has caused on the lives of
individuals, families, and communities. Mr. Chairman, we will
keep speaking out about the stakes of this war and why we must
all support Ukraine for as long as it takes.
Lastly, I would be remiss if I did not express my gratitude
to the distinguished members of this Commission for also
speaking clearly and forcefully on this same set of issues. I
also wanted to say I wish I could have joined you in
Birmingham. Unfortunately, I fell ill, and I had to isolate and
could not travel.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to answering any of
your questions.
Chairman Cardin: Mr. Ambassador, thank you. We are glad to
see you are well. As is my understanding, some members of our
delegation also became ill as a result of the trip. Please stay
well, and thank you very much for your service to the Helsinki
Commission. This is your first opportunity to testify before
our Commission in your confirmed position as Ambassador to the
OSCE. It is very encouraging to hear about the unity within the
OSCE states to isolate Russia, and Belarus, I might add. That
is a major accomplishment. Congratulations on that issue.
I do want to underscore the point that Mr. Putin uses his
asymmetrical arsenal to accomplish his objectives. He is now
using food as a weapon. He has used energy as a weapon. He has
used misinformation. He has used all these issues, so it should
not surprise us to see the brutality of the Putin regime. My
concern is, we have unity, but we need action. Senator Shaheen
and I just left a hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations
Committee on food insecurity, in which the Black Sea commerce
lanes are critically important in order to get Ukrainian food
to needed areas.
We are here mainly talking about those Ukrainians that are
under the direct control of Russians today. We know they are
being indoctrinated. We know that they are at risk. We
recognize the challenges. We are pleased to see that we have an
OSCE mission in Ukraine, but that mission does not have access
to those areas controlled by Russia. My question to you is: We
have to have a war strategy to deal with these humanitarian
needs. It is not just putting a spotlight on it.
It is to develop with likeminded states within the OSCE and
within all of our organizations a strategy to minimize the
damage that Russia is doing through the use of these weapons to
those under--to those Ukrainians that are suffering today under
Russian domination, to the attempt to eliminate the Ukrainian
culture, to try to take young children and take them to Russia
so that they never become Ukrainian. All that requires a war
strategy in order to respond to it. Could you just perhaps
elaborate a little bit more as to what mechanisms you see
within the OSCE that can be utilized in order to make it clear
that we stand with the Ukrainians, not just in words, but by
deeds, to protect those that are vulnerable today and to hold
Russia accountable?
Mr. Carpenter: Thank you, Chairman Cardin, for that
excellent question. I would say that looking more broadly at
the U.S. strategy with regards to Ukraine, which is a war
strategy, that--[audio break]--four crucial elements to it.
One is enabling Ukraine to push back militarily. This is
where the military assistance that the U.S. has provided, over
$7.3 billion worth, including high-end systems like
counterbattery radars and HIMARS, or high mobility artillery
rocket systems, are crucial because they enable--they have
enabled Ukraine to stabilize the front lines and hopefully will
in the future enable Ukraine to roll back the Russian gains on
the ground. Because we know what happens when Russia controls
more territory. More people suffer. There are more human and
humanitarian tragedies that unfold each and every day that they
are there on the ground controlling these areas.
Second thing we can do is expose what Russia is doing. We
are talking now about Russia's attempts to hold sham referenda
in Kherson, in Zaporizhzhia, just as they have in the past in
Crimea. We want to expose Russia's actions, take away their
pretext, take away that thin little veneer of legitimacy that
they try to claim in terms of what they are trying to do.
Third, imposing costs is crucial both with sanctions, but I
would say equally importantly, or perhaps more importantly,
with export controls. So far, we have very good transatlantic
unity on this.
Speaking out at the OSCE and rallying our allies and
partners there is also a crucial part of this effort to ensure
that we are all on the same page, that we all understand the
immediacy and urgency of what we need to do, as far as
tightening sanctions and export controls. Then finally, I would
say the accountability piece is crucial. This is perhaps where
the OSCE has had the biggest role so far, but that--that role
will be shared with other accountability mechanisms, such as
the U.N. Commission of Inquiry, the ICC, and the ICJ. We have
to hold individuals, as well as Russia and its leadership,
accountable for the war crimes, the crimes against humanity,
and the gross abuse of human rights.
Chairman Cardin: Thank you, Mr. Ambassador.
I am going to turn the gavel to Co-Chair Cohen. There is a
vote on the floor of the Senate. I will be returning shortly.
Representative Cohen: Thank you. I will reserve my
questions as two senators probably have to leave for votes
pretty soon. I am going to defer to Senator Shaheen, because
the last meeting we had, she had to leave before she had a
chance to participate, and I felt that was unfortunate.
Senator Shaheen: Well, thank you very much, Congressman. I
have actually voted, so if Senator Blumenthal would like to
take my time and go ahead and ask his questions and because I
can stay here for a while.
STATEMENT OF RICHARD BLUMENTHAL , U.S. SENATE, FROM CONNECTICUT
Senator Blumenthal: I have not yet voted, Mr. Chairman. I
really appreciate my colleague's deference, so I am going to
try to be concise and brief.
Mr. Ambassador, I visited Ukraine two weeks ago, almost to
the day, traveling by overnight plane and then overnight train
for about 12 hours to meet with President Zelensky, who
impressed both Senator Graham and myself with his courage and
strength. We also visited the killing fields at Bucha and
surrounding towns, where the sites of mass graves were still
plainly visible and the images of women and children with their
hands tied behind their backs killed brutally by Russian
soldiers, simply because they were Ukrainians--that is the
definition of genocide, to kill people simply because of their
nationality or their race, that is genocide pure and simple. It
is also a form of terrorism.
As you may know, Senator Graham and I have sponsored a
resolution, unanimously passed by the Senate Foreign Relations
Committee, to designate Russia a State sponsor of terrorism. It
is currently on the floor of the Senate. All but one of our
colleagues are supporting it, but we are still hoping that it
can receive unanimous consent. I would like your opinion on
whether what Russia is doing behind the lines could be regarded
as terrorism.
Mr. Carpenter: Thank you, Senator.
Well, you know, I agree with the president and his
characterization of the events. I do not think--[audio break].
That was his moral position, and I agree with--[audio break].
Russia is absolutely brutalizing the Ukrainian population, and
they are trying to erase Ukrainian identity from--[audio
break]--changing school curricula. They are imposing the ruble.
They are forcing Russian administrative law on some of these
regions. They are trying to Russify--they are not trying to de-
Nazify anything. As Co-Chairman Cohen pointed out, they are
trying to Russify the region. They cannot even find enough
local collaborators to do it, so they are bringing in Russian--
[audio break]--government agencies--[audio break]. Yes, Russia
is brutalizing the population, making them afraid to even leave
their houses, even when they are hungry and when they need
water and food. I agree. I agree that this is absolutely--
[audio break].
Senator Blumenthal: Thank you. Let me just say, finally,
when we talk about--and I am quoting from the name of the
hearing--``Behind Enemy Lines: Life in Ukraine's Newly Occupied
Territories''--I think what we are going to be seeing is an
insurgency among the Ukrainian people. Special operations,
guerrilla-type warfare, all kinds of resistance behind those
lines. Because the Ukrainian people are not going to forego
this fight. They are going to resist this occupation--illegal,
unprovoked, brutal occupation--of their homeland, not only at
the frontlines but behind those lines, where the aggressors
have already occupied them.
I hope that the United States will support not only the
resistance at the frontlines with artillery, air defense, all
the military means, as well as humanitarian assistance and
economic sanctions that we can muster, but also an insurgency
special operations operation behind enemy lines. Because
ultimately, protecting those people who are there now requires
that kind of United States engagement. Thank you very much, Mr.
Ambassador, for your good work. Thanks for appearing before us
here.
Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your
deference.
Representative Cohen: You are welcome, sir. That was--for a
senator, that was very concise. [Laughter.]
Senator Blumenthal: I am going to leave Senator Shaheen to
defend our honor.
Representative Cohen: Thank you.
Thank you.
Just let me ask one question, if you do not--Mr.
Ambassador. Russia has been a member of the OSCE. Of course,
being a member, we are supposed to abide by the Helsinki
Accords, which is what we are about. They have been a clear and
gross well violator of the Helsinki Accords commitments--every
single one of them, and that has been noted. They are still a
member of the OSCE. Other national bodies, such as the Council
of Europe, the United Nations Security Council, have taken
measures to restrict Russia's participation or remove them
altogether. What are your thoughts about Russia's continued
participation in the OSCE, taken under the fact that they seem
to have no appreciation of what the OSCE is about?
Mr. Carpenter: Co-Chairman Cohen, I would start by agreeing
with you that Russia has committed clear, gross, and
uncorrected violations of the Helsinki Final Act: All 10
principles. They are violating every single one--[audio break].
What I would say is this: Unfortunately, there is no
pathway for expelling--[audio break]. Not that its actions do
not deserve it, but there is a mechanism that requires--[audio
break]. Unfortunately, we have Russia and Belarus as co-
aggressors. We are not--[audio break]--the consensus minus-one
mechanism is not available.
What we have done instead we have used the OSCE tool, as I
said earlier, to isolate Russia. There are a few states--I am
sure you can guess which ones--[audio break]. As I said
earlier, not a single participating State defended Russian
aggression in Ukraine or intimated that the recognition of all
the--[audio break]. We are using the organization to hold
Russia accountable for its clear gross and uncorrected
violations of the Final Act. We are preserving the institution,
particularly the field missions on the ground which, as you
know, do valuable--[audio break]--especially in those countries
that are more vulnerable to coercion--[audio break]--and
Moldova, in the Western Balkans, and, indeed, in Ukraine
itself. We want to preserve the organizational footprint, even
as we isolate Russia in the--[audio break].
Representative Cohen: Have you visited Ukraine since
February 24?
Mr. Carpenter: I have not. I am looking to go. I will go as
soon as I get permission from--
Representative Cohen: From the State Department? Good luck.
Mr. Carpenter: Yes, sir.
Representative Cohen: [Laughs.] Senator Shaheen, you are
recognized.
STATEMENT OF JEANNE SHAHEEN, U.S. SENATE, FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE
Senator Shaheen: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ambassador
Carpenter, you are breaking up. Your sound is not coming
through really clearly. I do not know if there is anything you
can do on your end, but if there is, that would be helpful. Or
maybe it is here in our hearing room, but whatever you can do
would be helpful.
I appreciate your testifying today, and also the panel--the
second panel, for being here today as well. I wanted to start--
and I am going to ask your opinion of this, as well as the
second panel--with the news of the recent firing by President
Zelensky of two people who are being described as his allies,
who are security officials, and the reason that has been
reported is that they have failed to identify pro-Russian
elements in their agencies. Now, I recognize that prior to
Russia's invasion of Ukraine, it was recognized that Ukraine
needed to reform its security services, given that those
institutions had not been reformed since Ukraine became
independent of Russia. I wonder if you could speak to the
decision to dismiss those two officials, whether it is because
there is concern about widespread Russian interference, if
there is political infighting, if there is anything else that
might affect the stability of Ukraine as it continues its
courageous fight against Russia.
Mr. Carpenter: Thank you, Senator Shaheen. I am going to
speak up. I do not know that I can do anything about the sound
quality.
This is a little bit outside my lane. This was a sovereign
decision by President Zelensky that was ratified by the Rada to
remove the prosecutor general and the head of the--[audio
break]--Ukraine. My understanding is that the rationale for
this had to do with Russia--[audio break]. Where there are
points of entry for Russian influence--[audio break].
Ultimately, I think these two individuals lost the trust of
their commander in chief, the president, so he has replaced
them, and that is certainly his--[audio break].
Senator Shaheen: It certainly is, and I understand that. I
guess my concern was how widespread we think that Russian
infiltration is, and whether there are other actions that
Ukraine's allies can take to support efforts to remove those
influences from their security services.
Mr. Carpenter: Well, thank you, Senator Shaheen. I think we
do have to look carefully at the degree of Russian malign
influence in both organizations--in the intelligence service as
well as the prosecutor general's office. That is going to
require--[audio break]--reform.
The U.S. is partnering now, as you--as I know you know,
very closely with both institutions. In fact, with the
prosecutor general's office, we are helping them with their
forensic investigation of atrocity crimes, so that work will go
on. I think I have heard my colleagues in other agencies
express confidence they will continue to work with both
organizations going forward. I am sure we will continue to do
that, even as we help them to become more resilient.
Senator Shaheen: Thank you. I appreciate that.
This morning, there was a report on BBC about a young
Ukrainian student who was kidnapped by Russian soldiers. It was
a very compelling story about what he heard while he was in
captivity in one of what the Russians are calling filtration
camps. How much do we know about what is happening in those
camps? The story talked about the torture that is going on,
people who are being disappeared, children who are being taken
away from their families and being adopted to be raised as
Russians. Do we know those details? What have you heard?
Mr. Carpenter: Thank you, Senator. We are increasingly
getting more information on the conduct of these so-called
filtration operations. Here at the OSCE, just earlier this
week, we had an eyewitness, a young man, 21 years old, from
Mariupol. Unfortunately, his mother died when he was a child.
His father was killed through Russian shelling of Mariupol. He
was taken through one of these filtration camps, was sent to
Russia, to various places. He described the brutal
interrogation, strip searches, the seizure of smartphones, and
the coercion of those who go through the process to give out
their passwords. I guess the people who run these filtration
centers then look at social media. They look for tattoos on
people's bodies to see if there is any sign whatsoever that
they may be Ukrainian patriots or loyal to the Ukrainian State,
in which case they await a very harsh future. Many of them,
frankly, disappeared. These are enforced disappearances. These
people go missing. We do not know what happened to them.
If they, ``pass'' through the filtration process--in other
words, if the Russians let them move on into Russia proper from
some of these camps--then they are either given jobs or sent to
various camps across Russia, as far as the Russian Far East.
This young man was able to escape, I believe via Georgia and
Turkey, and come to Vienna to offer his testimony, and it was--
[audio break]. It was chilling. [Audio break]--fear. There are
threats. There is intimidation, and there is physical violence
that is used--[audio break].
Senator Shaheen: Thank you.
Mr. Carpenter: Oh, sorry. Senator, one other thing I just
wanted to mention on this. Some of these filtration operations
are described through eyewitness accounts in the most recent
ODIHR report that was released today by the OSCE's Office of
Democratic Institutions and Human Rights. Again, I commend that
report, which has a lot of--[audio break].
Senator Shaheen: Well, I appreciate OSCE's continuing to
investigate and speak out. I hope everyone in the civilized
world will speak out against those atrocities.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cardin: Mr. Ambassador, I would ask that you would
keep our Commission totally informed on any information you
receive concerning these filtration camps or any of the other
methods being deployed by the Russians that compromise the
safety of Ukrainians under their control, so that we can get
that information disseminated and can make sure that the
international community is aware of the tactics being used, and
that we can try to develop methods to counter these activities
to protect Ukrainians.
Congressman Fitzgerald.
Representative Fitzpatrick: Thank you. Also known as
Fitzpatrick.
Chairman Cardin: I am sorry. Fitzpatrick. I am sorry.
STATEMENT OF BRIAN FITZPATRICK, U.S. HOUSE, FROM PENNSYLVANIA
Representative Fitzpatrick: We are all related at the end
of the day. It is all good. Thank you to our two witnesses for
being here. Mr. Ambassador, good to see you. Olga, Oleks. Good
to see you, sir, Oleks. Hopefully, we can catch up outside of
here when we get some free time. I want to thank you for making
the trip over, for doing all you are doing to support Ukraine.
I have been to Ukraine three times in the past year. Once pre-
invasion, just before the invasion, twice post-invasion.
In my pre-invasion trip in September, we had a whole host
of meetings, including with SBU, with Ivan Bakanov. I will tell
you, in no other of my meetings did my FBI antennas go sky-high
other than my meeting with him. I am--while I am glad to see
his dismissal, it was a long time coming. I am not sure why it
took so long. He is a problem. I will tell you; he is a
problem. You got to get him the heck out of that circle,
wherever he is right now. Because we could just tell--all of us
that were there--the nature of his questions. I worked Russian
counterintelligence for 14 years, and he is a problem. He was a
problem, and he is a problem now.
In our second trip, obviously, the issues had changed a
lot--the issues back shortly after the February 24 invasion
were the MiG-29s coming out of Poland--I am sorry--yes, out of
Poland, TB2 drones coming out of Turkey, the S-300 surface-to-
air missiles that were needed. Then the battlefield shifted to
the east, and the multi-rocket launch systems were the urgent
need my last visit. Ukrainian artillery was capped at about 20
kilometers. Russians backed up 50 kilometers and were shelling,
causing 200-plus deaths a day, at least in my last visit there.
To Olga--I wil start with you, Oleks, because you have
been--you have been a real hero for Ukraine, and I want to
commend you. You made a lot of appearances on U.S. media. I was
out of town on February 24. I was sick to my stomach when I was
watching unfold on TV that which I had been fighting against
for a decade, but, you know, was always fearful was going to
happen. You have stepped up in a big way, and you, more than
anybody in Parliament, I will tell you, articulated the facts
on the ground and the situation and what Ukraine needed better
than anybody. I thank you for that.
Oleks, if you could just give us an update, since the
requests have changed, as I pointed out, over time. What is the
current situation on the ground, as you assess it now? What is
your most imminent need? Is it still the multi-rocket launch
system or is it something different?
Chairman Cardin: If I could interrupt for 1 second, we have
not gotten to the second panel yet. We could reserve that
question. I have--I believe Congressman Wilson is still on the
line to question Ambassador Carpenter.
Mr. Fitzpatrick: Sounds good.
Chairman Cardin: Then we will come right back to you, okay?
Mr. Fitzpatrick: I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cardin: Thank you.
Congressman Wilson, are you still there?
Representative Wilson: I sure am.
Chairman Cardin: Any questions for Ambassador Carpenter?
Representative Wilson: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman,
and indeed. Ambassador Carpenter, thank you for your proven
diplomatic capabilities. Sadly, you are going to be tested,
because I, like all of us, was so pleased. Republicans and
Democrats coming together--that is not what Putin meant to
happen. The OSCE to come together, how incredible, to see the
European Union become involved and actually participate,
backing up Ukraine, to see NATO add two new members. Who would
ever imagine Sweden and Finland?
In the meantime, something that is absolutely disgraceful
to me is the front page of The Wall Street Journal today. That
is a picture of war criminal Putin with the State sponsor of
terrorism Raisi, along with the president of Turkey, a member
of NATO--a 70-year member of NATO, a country that has had a
democratic history now for 99 years. For them--for Turkey to be
associated with what I see as reincarnated Hitler and
Mussolini, this--this is just somehow you need to use your
skills, and we all need to be working together, that Turkey
needs to get back on board.
Initially, of course, they were among the first supporters
of the freedom and liberation of the people of Ukraine. For
this picture--this is so shameful and insulting to the people
of Turkey. I just--I want to wish you well on trying to get
Turkey back in line. What can we do to get the message across
that the collaboration with Putin and--the war criminal, and
the State sponsor of terrorism, it is inconceivable?
Mr. Carpenter: Thank you, Congressman Wilson. I hear you
loud and clear, and I sympathize with exactly--[audio break].
Turkey is a tough ally to work with.
We have gotten them onboard with the Moscow Mechanism twice
now. They have been among those 45 states that have helped
invoke it. They speak out in the Permanent Council on a regular
basis, condemning Russia's actions in Ukraine. Here in Vienna
at the OSCE, they play a helpful role.
However, you yourself noted the recent trip by President
Erdogan to Iran, his various meetings with President Putin. By
the way, he is also part of negotiations with the United
Nations, the Russians, and the Ukrainians on the export of
Ukrainian grain through their borders in the Black Sea. That is
apparently nearing finality, so he is playing a variety of
different roles.
Of course, in the Aegean, it is one thing and in the South
Caucasus, it is quite another. You know, we try to work with
the Turks where we can, but when their behavior is as you
noted, then it is--frankly, it is very difficult.
Representative Wilson: Well, they have--hey, they have been
beloved allies of America for 70 years, and actually 99 years,
and even prior. I just want to wish you well. One day, they--
one way they could redeem themselves is to--indeed, to
facilitate and have the provision of the opening of the Port of
Odesa for the grain to be removed.
Just, again, thank you for your service and thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
I yield back.
Chairman Cardin: Thank you. Ambassador Carpenter, thank you
very much for your time today. We appreciate it very much. We
will be following up on these issues. Please keep us, the
Commission, informed on what is happening on the ground and how
the OSCE can play a role in protecting the Ukrainians who are
particularly vulnerable to Russian domination at this
particular moment. We would appreciate your expertise,
information to the Commission.
Thank you very much for your testimony.
Mr. Carpenter: Thank you so much, Chairman.
Chairman Cardin: We will now turn to our second panel. We
have Oleksiy Goncharenko, who is a native of Odesa, Ukraine,
who serves as an Odesa city councilor and as an Odesa regional
councilor. In 2014, he was elected as chair of the Odesa
Regional Council and to the Parliament of Ukraine. He is also a
member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe,
PACE, where he was elected this year as vice president of
PACE's Committee on Migration, Refugees and Internally
Displaced Persons. Following Russia's full-scale invasion of
Ukraine in February 2022, he served one month in Ukraine's
territorial defense forces. It is a real pleasure to have you--
be with you today, and I thank you for your help for our
delegation last month.
We also have on this panel Olga Aivazovska, who serves as
the head of the Board of the Civil Network, OPORA, an NGO. She
was a director of national nonpartisan observation missions in
Ukraine with over 25,000 activists involved from 2010 to 2021,
and participated in electoral observations in more than 10
countries in Europe. From 2016 to 2018, she represented Ukraine
in the political subgroup of the Trilateral Contact Group,
relating to the conflict in eastern Ukraine. She is also one of
the founders of the International Center for Ukrainian Victory.
She is a really good lobbyist because she lobbied me for two
additional minutes in her testimony. It is a pleasure to have
both of you with us. You may proceed. Your full testimoneys
will be made part of our record.
TESTIMONY OF OLEKSIY GONCHARENKO, MEMBER OF THE VERKHOVNA RADA
OF UKRAINE AND VICE PRESIDENT OF THE COMMITTEE ON MIGRATION AND
REFUGEES, PARLIAMENTARY ASSEMBLY OF THE COUNCIL OF EUROPE
Mr. Goncharenko: Thank you. Thank you very much.
Distinguished Members of the Congress, it is a big honor to be
here today. First of all, I would like to thank you for all
support that Ukraine today is receiving here in this terrible
war, from you personally, from the Congress in general, both
Republicans and Democrats, we appreciate this bipartisan
support, from the current U.S. administration headed by
President Biden, and by American people. Also, I would like to
thank Ambassador Carpenter for the brilliant work he and his
team in the OSCE in order to restore security on the continent.
Helsinki Commission deals with security and cooperation in
Europe. I can tell you that there is not any other nation in
Europe on the continent which made more for security than
Ukraine, because we are the only--and the first in human
history--and for the moment the only nation which voluntarily
gave up nuclear weapon arsenal, which was in 1994 the third
largest in the world. We did it with the aim of
nonproliferation of nuclear weapons and increasing security.
What we have today? The terrible, barbaric attack against us,
and an attempt to wipe out Ukraine from the map of the planet.
In order to return to national security, because this is a
very bad message, we need to restore as soon as possible
territorial integrity of Ukraine. Today, 21 percent of our
territory is occupied. We are speaking today about occupied
territories--21. It is like Austria and Switzerland together,
or like the State of Mississippi or Pennsylvania. Just imagine,
with millions of people there. This territory was even bigger.
Fortunately, we liberated part of it. Bucha, Irpin, Hostomel,
these names are known throughout the whole world because after
liberation, we knew about awful atrocities committed in the
suburbs of Kyiv by Russian Army.
I want to give you testimony not of myself, but of this
girl. Her name is Sofia. She is 14 years old. You can--you can
see what Russians did with her. I just want to read what she
said: I am Sofia and I am a small Ukrainian girl. I lost my
hand, my mother, and my beloved cat in Bucha. I am one of
almost 1,000 children who have suffered at the hands of
occupants. I lived in the hospital for three months, and I am
still tormented by phantom pains. Now I am in Rome, but I
shudder at every sound, and I am afraid of airplanes. When I am
worried, I am not just--my non-existent hand, it hurts. It
hurts my whole body. I did horse riding in a past life, but I
do not know if I can do it again with one arm. I need a
prosthesis. When I wear it, the phantom pains will subside, and
I will even be able to dress myself.
I have today her--this toy, one of her favorite toys, this
horse. I want to ask you how it could be in the 21st century
such things happen to children, to our children? What should we
do to stop it? I want to thank all of you--Senator Cardin,
Representative Cohen, and your colleagues--for the bills about
raising the designation of what is going on in Ukraine as a
genocide. Because it is genocide. Convention on Prevention of
Genocide of the United Nations clearly says that there are
clear criteria in Article 2 what is genocide. I can just tell
you that it is said that genocide means any--it is a--I am
quoting, ``any of the following acts committed.''
Unfortunately, in Ukraine, not any but all of them are
committed.
Killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or
mental harm to members of the group. You can watch Sofia,
deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life
calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or
in part. You mentioned Mariupol, which was without heating
during the winter, which is without water today in the summer.
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group,
and all the sexual violence against Ukrainian women which
happened. Forcibly transferring children, more than 200,000, to
Russia in order to change their identity and to make Russians
from them. That is all, when Russia occupies our territories
first, what do they do? They burn Ukrainian books. They destroy
Ukrainian monuments. That is also a clear criterion of
genocide.
What is now done by Russia is a genocide. I assure you and
encourage you to adopt these bills that you so kindly sponsored
and presented as soon as possible. The Convention on Prevention
of Genocide is saying not only about what is genocide, but if
there is a genocide that it is the responsibility of every
country on the planet to do everything possible to stop it as
soon as possible. It means--in Ukrainian case, it means give us
weaponry, because that is the only way to stop genocide is to
stop this occupation of our territory, and we need weaponry for
it. We need long-range missiles. We need fighters. We need
tents. We do not ask for boots on the ground. We are not asking
for other things. We will do our job ourselves. Please, help us
with this. Provide us with this.
We are watching our place on the planet. I can tell you,
after we win this war together with the United States, with
your support, as a closest ally, we will be able to be a
closest ally in other parts of the planet to prevent such
things which happening in our country today. We will definitely
do it together with you. May God bless you and God bless
America.
Thank you very much.
Chairman Cardin: Well, thank you very much for your
testimony.
Ms. Aivazovska.
TESTIMONY OF OLGA AIVAZOVSKA, HEAD OF THE BOARD CIVIL NETWORK
OPORA AND CO-FOUNDER, INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR UKRAINIAN
VICTORY
Ms. Aivazovska: Hello to everyone. Mr. Chairman, Members of
the Congress, dear participants of this hearing, I want to talk
from the people who are still living under occupation. This is
the most dramatic period for them, because these people, these
Ukrainian citizens, do not have any voices. That is why we have
to talk about their stories. The longer the occupation
continues, the more torturous, degrading treatment, and pain
Ukrainian citizens will suffer.
The action of the occupants is aimed at a systematic and
intentional destruction of the Ukrainian identity in the
occupied territories. This--[inaudible]--is through torture,
intimidation, and humiliation. It will only take them a short
time to cutoff the local citizens from Ukrainian news. They are
left in an information vacuum now without access to the
internet, mobile phone communication, or the opportunity to
leave, to seek refuge in Ukrainian government-controlled
territories.
The occupants have undertaken mass-scale filtration
measures that aim through the repeated interrogation of the
local populations, revealing and destroying any potential
resistance to the occupying regime. You have to know that 1.3
million Ukrainians already have experience with filtration. Two
hundred twenty-four thousand Ukrainian people, Ukrainian
children, are relocated from occupied territories to Russia.
Unfortunately, this process is ongoing till that time when
Russia stops. Not because of their political will, but because
of our common fights with support of free Western world.
You might recall the first days after the full-scale
invasion, when citizens of Ukraine bravely took into the
streets and met the armed Russian military with Ukrainian
flags. Openly demonstrated opposition to the Kremlin's
unprovoked intervention. In response to the courage of Ukraine,
the Russian occupants met the peaceful protests with arms and
shooting in places like Chaplynka, Bilozerka, Kakhovka,
Kherson, Energodar, et cetera. This was followed by large-scale
acts of terror, filtration, deportation, forced disappearance,
and torture of citizens.
Curbing the resistance and the free will of citizens was
the first step in the Russian plans for the annexation of the
new occupied territories. We have to talk about that, the
annexation will be the next stage. The next step in the plan is
for Russia to organize fake referendums. It will happen in
September if we do not do something to [make it a] higher price
for Putin and Russia about that. The Russian Federation might,
therefore, by definition, be recognized as a State sponsor of
terrorism.
A resident of Kherson, Denys Fedko, told in March how the
Russians killed members of his family, including two minor
children, with 46 shots near the Kakhovka hydropower plant. His
parents, his brother's wife, and her kids, the 6-year-old Sofia
and the 18-month-old Ivan were driving in the family car. He
was on the phone with his mother during the entire time and
became a witness to their execution. He heard the shots, the
children crying, and Irina, his sister-in-law and his mother,
screaming. Little Ivan was the last to be finished off.
Viktoria from Kherson testified that in order to leave the
city by car, she had to pass 53 Russian checkpoints together
with her husband and their child. At 20 checkpoints, the
Russians frisked them, took away valuables, ordered them to
undress, and pat down their underwear. Today, even such a
difficult escape is no longer an option. The population in
temporary occupied territories is commonly being subject to
torture with electric current, beaten up, raped, and morally
abused. Such acts violate fundamental rights and the war--the
laws of war. They are war crimes and crimes against humanity.
The goal is to destroy Ukrainians and their identity. That is
why these actions constitute genocide in 21st century.
Yulia Pustovyt, a resident of Rubizhne in Luhansk Oblast,
provided her testimony to a Civil Network reporter after being
evacuated, so-called evacuated to Russian Federation. She told
us that all deportees were deprived of their identification
documents by the Russians. Then they would have no freedom of
movement, even in Russia. Yulia, however, managed to keep her
identification documents. She had to simulate loyalty to the
Russian Federation authorities and told that she had relatives
in St. Petersburg who were ready to host her. After undergoing
filtration and deportation to Russia, she managed to flee from
the train with her children. They are now all safe in Estonia.
Volunteers helped her to be in a safe place.
The investigative committee of Russia is preparing to frame
the Ukrainian military for destroying the city of Mariupol,
despite, we know the Russian Army had been destroying the city
for months on a daily basis. We saw this evidence in online
streaming from Mariupol. Russia needs such accusations for
propaganda proposed to create an informational curtain, and to
cancel the war crimes committed by the Russian armed forces
that led to the destruction of the cities. We can expect that
the first death sentences issued to members of the Ukrainian
military will be turned into a systemic effort. Such
accusations will become a further instrument of terror directed
against Ukrainian citizens, civilians, and Ukrainian soldiers.
The international--intentional shift in a focus away from
Russian military by placing the responsibility for any
atrocities on illegal armed groups is and are the matter of
Russian propaganda, and when one thinks more, because we have
to build bridges between territories and to Ukrainian-
government-controlled and occupied territories.
You have to know that even now I have to talk that Meta
providers--Facebook, Instagram, Messenger--which should have
changed its policy regarding content intended for the
temporarily occupied territory. From February 26, Facebook
changed the policies, and we do not have access because of
their policies to occupy territories. This is very important to
know how we can--how we can help to build these bridges with
occupied territories because we want to continue help people on
that, and we have to prevent other occupation on Ukraine, and
to remember that referendum is one of the tools to use nuclear
weapons in the future because you know that Russia will use
this stage for this type of aggression.
Chairman Cardin: Let me thank both of you for your powerful
testimony, for your courage, for your willingness to be here
and give us a firsthand account of what is happening in
Ukraine.
We read the articles, but when we hear your testimony, it
really puts an exclamation point on the urgency of the issues
and the atrocities of what Mr. Putin has done. I just really
want to thank both of you for your courage and for your
testimoneys before our committee.
I am going to ask Congressman Fitzpatrick if you want to
get an answer to your question.
Representative Fitzpatrick: Sure. I do not know if you
remember my long diatribe, but I think my--what I rounded out
my question was the request had changed from our first to our
second visit post-invasion, when the war had changed; the war
was on very, very different footing. What is the current
request? What is the current need? Oleks, you and I have
communicated frequently. Many of your colleagues communicate
frequently with me, and the situation has changed
exponentially. It has changed by the day. What is the current
situation? What is the current need?
I also want to reiterate everything that Oleks said. We
cannot be lost on this moment in history, and we all ought to
study history. We all ought to study September 1st in 1939,
when Germany invaded Poland, and how many people across the
globe were worried about provocation, they were worried about
escalation. My question to supporters of them is, how did that
work out for them?
We have to take this threat as seriously as possible.
Vladimir Putin is a war criminal. What is being committed now
is genocide, and Russia is a State sponsor of terrorism. Let us
start with those three basic facts, right? That is the platform
that we ought to be launching from. What does Ukraine need
now--because we just passed a $40 billion aid package.There is
going to be another package up for consideration soon. It has
become more difficult to maintain that assistance and that
support, so it is important that we hear from you the current
situation and what it is that you need more than anything right
now.
Mr. Goncharenko: Thank you. Thank you very much,
Representative Fitzpatrick, and it is an honor to answer your
question. It is very important for us. Of course, we need
weaponry, as said. The No. 1 request is assistance like HIMARS,
which is a long-range artillery which gives us a possibility to
answer on Russian concentration of artillery.
Just one number for you: Russia is shelling each day in
Ukraine 60,000 heavy shells and missiles. It is not counting
mines or mortars. It is just heavy shells from 100-caliber and
more, and missiles. Just imagine this number. We cannot beat
them in quantity; we should beat them in quality, preciseness,
and range. That is why HIMARS, even eight which are already in
Ukraine.
Today, I want to thank--it was announced by Secretary Lloyd
Austin about four more HIMARS, which will be sent to our
country. That is very important. Even these eight made a
difference, and definitely more is better, and we ask to give
us more. Our military is saying that we need at least 60 of
these systems. Altogether, now we are promised 20 with a new
list which we are promised today. We desperately ask for more,
and what is very important: We--now we have provided them with
only short-range missiles, which are up to 45 miles. There are
other missiles which can be used by these launchers, which can
hit for almost 200 miles. We need them. It does not mean more
expenditure because we already have launchers; we just need
these missiles.
I cannot understand this limitation. There is--why 45 miles
is not escalatory and 150 miles is escalatory. I mean, I think
it is quite strange. We need to put aside these limitations. We
are speaking about genocide, so that is what is important.
Second thing is definitely everything about aviation. Two
things I would tell: These are fighters because Ukraine, sooner
or later, will run out of fighters. All our fighters are
Soviet-type, and it means that we can have new only from
Russia. To change the engine we need, we can do it only from
Russia, so the only way for us is to switch to NATO standard F-
15, and F-16.
This is not an easy process. I want to thank Congress for
already passing in National Defense Authorization Act: $100
million for training. It will mean that this training will
start at the end of this year or beginning of next year, then
it will take half a year more of training. We will have access
only in one year. One year for us is eternity.
The last thing in aviation I should add is drones. These
Gray Eagle drones, which were, like, already discussed, but at
the last moment were stopped. Now there is no final decision
about them. I want to ask you to help us receive these drones
because after HIMARS are doing their job, disrupting logistics,
disrupting Russia's air defense--anti-air defense, and their
command areas, after this, something should finish the job, and
that should be a drone. That is also important.
Thank you.
Representative Fitzpatrick: Now just last, Ivan Bakanov, if
you could comment--and this is a big deal. I could sense it
when I met him, and he has been the chief intelligence officer
of Ukraine for all these months. It turns out--as we suspected
from day one--he is a problem. If you could just comment on
this because we are going to have to answer for this here in
Congress.
Mr. Goncharenko: My answer is simple. I think, from the
beginning, that appointing him to this position was not a good
decision because he has never [had] experience in security, and
that is a problem, and 2019, it was done. Definitely,
unfortunately in the southern part of Ukraine, there was a
failure of our secret service, definitely, when there were
bridges which were not blown out. There are problems. It would
be better if he would be sacked earlier, but better later than
never. Finally, it is done, and that is a good decision of
President Zelensky.
Ms. Aivazovska: Thank you for your question, and of course,
I am dreaming about a position that Russia officially is a
State sponsor of terrorism, that what is going on officially is
genocide. It is not about public wording. It has to be a part
of official decisions and documents for the future perspective
to have accountability and justice, because I believe that what
Russia is doing is because the USSR was not punished, because
Ukrainians had the same stories about filtration, about
camp[s], about torture for many, many years ago.
You know that we had genocide already. We had the same
during and after the Second World War, and because Russia was
one of the winners of the Second World War, it was not
punished--Russia--I mean USSR. That is why I believe that we
have to ask you to continue support from both parties'
Ukrainian future and security in Europe through the future
accountability process. This process has to be built now
because we have to think about the tribunal against aggression.
It can be an investigation against Putin personally, even now,
because we have precedence already. Only this tribunal can be a
basic opposition to start an investigation about Putin today.
I have to talk about other types of tribunals. We have to
support the ICC. I know the position of the USA about the ICC--
International Criminal Court. At the same time, I hope that our
partners will continue to support it. A few days ago,
officials, the decision about open criminal cases against war
crimes in Ukraine was nearly 40 thousands of cases. Can you
imagine what it--has to be done in Ukraine? We have to find a
special court. We have to train investigators. We have to give
them equipment and support them because it is about amount of
crimes. I do not think that we can compare this situation with
some of the others.
Sanctions, it is about--your comment, too--sorry, Ukraine
already lost 96 billion dollars because of the war in Ukraine.
Do you know how much money Russia took from Europe and other
states through gas and oil? Ninety-seven billion dollars.
Russians will have enough money to continue--to continue this
aggression against Ukraine, unfortunately. We have to think how
the price will increase day by day, and how Russia will not
build the ally with other authoritarian and other types of
regimes--semi-authoritarian regimes in the future to build this
ally for future aggression against not only Ukraine, but
Europe. You know about that very well.
From my perspective, official tracks have to be historical
for now because, after Putin, will come even more authoritarian
leaders because there is a huge request from Russian society to
have such a type of system, unfortunately.
Chairman Cardin: Let me make this request: The more
documentation you can give us about the atrocities being
committed by Mr. Putin, the more that we can get the type of
international support we need. These filtration camps--I know
it is very difficult to get specific information, but any
information you can get, any photographs, any type of
documentation--making it available to us, we will make sure it
is disseminated--information about unaccompanied children being
taken into Russia, information about torture or disappearance
of people, any information like that. The Helsinki Commission
has an international reputation in regards to promoting
international human rights, and as we said in the beginning--
each of us has said, this is genocide, and we want the
international community to understand this. Any help you can be
in that regard will be helpful to us.
I know it is not easy to get documentation because of the
way the Russians act, but anything you can get for us, please
share it with us, and we will make sure it is put to good use.
I am going to turn the gavel over once again to Co-Chair Cohen.
There is another vote on the floor. I want to thank both of our
witnesses. I understand Congressman Wilson is also on the line,
and Congressman Cohen will close out the hearing.
With that, let me give it to Congressman Cohen.
Representative Cohen: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and once again,
thank you for calling this hearing.
Mr. Wilson, do you have questions? Ranking Member Wilson?
Representative Wilson: Mr. Chairman, yes. Senator Cardin,
of course, is ahead of the curve, and that is the
documentation. Incredibly, when the war started, I remember
seeing a German newspaper they called this the cell phone war.
That means that there can be documentation that would have
never been imagined in prior conflicts. With the proliferation
of cell phones, people can document and then provide this
worldwide.
Additionally, there is other technology--and I would like,
from both of our witnesses--is there other technology that
could be helpful, such as satellite surveillance capability,
whatever? Is there--whatever other means can there be that we
help back them up to provide the documentation of the
atrocities that are being committed? [Pause.]
Representative Cohen: I think that is just an open question
to either of you.
Mr. Goncharenko: Yes, I just can say that, Honored
Representative Wilson, you are absolutely right, and you--what
you said. Speaking about documentation, we will do our best to
provide the Helsinki Commission with all the documentation
possible. We are in good cooperation both with State bodies and
with NGO's who are collecting this evidence, this information,
and we will do our best to provide you with it. We appreciate
very much what you are doing in order to use this information
to say the truth about what is going on in our country and what
measures should be taken to stop it. We will definitely do it.
Thank you.
Ms. Aivazovska: Thank you for--
Representative Wilson: Okay, one final point, Olga,
before--and that is, what can we do to help provide assistance
for special operations resistance in the occupied areas?
Mr. Goncharenko: I see. I can answer this question. That is
very important again because we have really a resilience in the
occupied territories, I can tell you--both organized--meaning
that we have contact with these people, our secret service--and
not organized. People are just fighting for their land.
We know that there is good cooperation between American
services--special services and the Ukrainian. We know that
there are good programs of training on it, but we will
absolutely be happy to see even more cooperation because
American--United States bodies have a great experience in
situations like this, and we definitely need this experience.
That will be very helpful for us.
We will continue doing our best to provide resilience with
what they need. Also, like it was said, a very important part
is an informational campaign. An informational war is part of
this hybrid war, and we need to continue sanctioning and
stopping Russian propaganda, fake news, and fake stories that
they are using against Ukraine in this war, and against people
on the occupied territories. Also here we can be in very good
cooperation with United States bodies, including the Department
of Justice, the State Department, Department of Defense. We
will help, and we hope that we will continue this work. With
your support, of the Helsinki Commission, of Congress, it can
be even more fruitful.
Thank you.
Representative Wilson: Well, we were successful in the
American Revolution due to guerrilla activities behind enemy
lines. In my home State, we had the Swamp Fox, Frances Marion,
and so we really--it is so impressive.
Thank both of you. You are such an inspiration to freedom
and democracy.
I yield back.
Ms. Aivazovska: Thank you for your question. I briefly want
to answer just a few things: First of all, if you are going to
continue to support Ukraine in documentization process. It is
not just documentization for documentization. We have to build
this justice and institutions that will work enough and will be
powerful enough in historical perspective.
Now we have like a two-joint investigation team, and a few
countries signed an agreement to exchange the information
because we have more than six million refugees. Many of them
were eyewitnesses. We have collected the data from them and use
it for the future accountability process.
You know that such instruments it is something new for
everyone in the 21st century. That is why the best brains, the
best minds in the USA, can be a part of the development of this
justice future. I want to highlight the idea to have the
tribunal against aggression. It is not something new, but we
have just statements and declarations. We have found this
tribunal through an EU mechanism, and I hope that the U.S. will
be a part of that because I do not believe that the U.N. can
adopt any agreements which will give us a chance to have a
tribunal on an international level.
When you ask about occupied territories, you know that
there is only one answer. It is military supply for Ukrainian
State, for Ukraine, and Ukrainian army because as long this
process will going on, as much victims and eyewitnesses we will
have in the future--and unfortunately, if Russia will try to
annex these territories, we will not back it as soon as it
possible, as we hoped, because it will be like Crimea for many
other partners in the world, even from the Western
civilization, unfortunately. We had this gap during the last 8
years, unfortunately.
That is why my last, last point: Please, do not be tired to
watch what is going on in Ukraine, and do not be tired to think
how to continue to support Ukraine because it is not only about
Ukraine; it is about global issue which Russia is a part of
that.
Thank you.
Representative Cohen: You are very welcome.
Thank you, Mr. Ranking Chair. This has been a very
informative hearing. We appreciate your attendance, your
testimony, and your keeping--continue to keep us informed of
evidence that might come your way, that you could give to us
that we could look at, analyze, and disseminate to the American
public. It is just horrific what is going on, and we need to
stand firm. I can assure you that we will. Glory to Ukraine.
This meeting is adjourned.
Mr. Goncharenko: God bless America.
[Whereupon, at 4:01 p.m., the hearing ended.]
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