[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
CROWDSOURCING VICTORY: INSIDE THE CIVIL SOCIETY CAMPAIGN TO IMPROVE THE
LETHALITY AND SURVIVABILITY OF THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEETH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
DECEMBER 7, 2022
__________
Printed for the use of the Commission Security and Cooperation in
Europe
[CSCE 117-21]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via www.csce.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
50-671 WASHINGTON : 2023
COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION
U.S SENATE
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
SENATOR BEN CARDIN, Maryland,
Chairman
ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi, STEVE COHEN, Tennessee, Co-
Ranking Member Chairman
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire
TINA SMITH, Minnesota
THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
JOE WILSON, South Carolina,
Ranking Member
ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama
EMANUEL CLEAVER II, Missouri
BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona
RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina
GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin
MARC VEASEY, Texas
EXECUTIVE BRANCH
Department of State - to be appointed
Department of Defense - to be appointed
Department of Commerce - to be appointed
C O N T E N T S
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Page
COMMISSIONERS
Senator Ben Cardin, Chairman, from Maryland...................... 1
Senator Roger F. Wicker, Ranking Member, from Mississippi........ 3
Representative Joe Wilson, Ranking Member, from South Carolina... 3
Senator Jeanne Shaheen, from New Hampshire....................... 4
Senator Richard Blumenthal, from Connecticut..................... 10
Representative Ruben Gallego, from Arizona....................... 14
WITNESSES
Serhiy Prytula, Founder and Chairman of the Ukraine-based Prytula
Charity Foundation............................................. 5
Dora Chomiak, President of U.S.-based NGO Razom for Ukraine...... 6
Taras Chmut, Director of the Ukraine-based foundation Come Back
Alive.......................................................... 8
Jonas Ohman, Founder and Head of the Lithuania-based NGO Blue/
Yellow for Ukraine............................................. 8
Rima Ziuraitiene, Managing Director, Blue/Yellow USA............. 18
CROWDSOURCING VICTORY: INSIDE THE CIVIL SOCIETY CAMPAIGN TO IMPROVE THE
LETHALITY AND SURVIVABILITY OF THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY
----------
COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN
EUROPE,
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION,
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Wednesday, December 7, 2022.
The Hearing Was Held From 2:31 p.m. To 3:39 p.m., Room 562,
Dirksen Senate Office Building, Washington, D.C., Senator Ben
Cardin [D-MD], Chairman, Commission for Security and
Cooperation in Europe, presiding.
Committee Members Present: Senator Ben Cardin [D-MD],
Chairman; Senator Roger Wicker [R-MS], Ranking Member;
Representative Joe Wilson [R-SC], Ranking Member; Senator
Jeanne Shaheen [D-NH]; Senator Richard Blumenthal [D-CT]; and
Representative Ruben Gallego. [D-AZ]
Witnesses: Dora Chomiak, President of U.S.-based NGO Razom
for Ukraine; Taras Chmut, Director of the Ukraine-based
foundation Come Back Alive; Serhiy Prytula, Founder and
Chairman of the Ukraine-based Prytula Charity Foundation; Jonas
Ohman, Founder and Head of the Lithuania-based NGO Blue/Yellow
for Ukraine; and Rima Ziuraitiene, Managing Director, Blue/
Yellow USA.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BEN CARDIN, CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATOR
FROM MARYLAND
Chairman Cardin: If I could have everyone's attention,
please, we are going to get started. I want to welcome everyone
to the Helsinki Commission hearing. By way of explanation, do
we always start exactly on time? Well, not always. But today we
are. The reason, quite frankly, is that Senator Wicker and I,
and the Senate members, are going to excuse ourselves and
Congressman Wilson is going to practice being Chairman of the
Committee, because in a few days the Chairmanship will rotate
to the United States House of Representatives. The reason we
are excusing ourselves is that we have an all-senators
classified briefing on Ukraine and Russia, including the
secretary of state, and the secretary of defense, and our
national director of intelligence. So it is a critically
important meeting for us to be at, furthering the cause of this
particular hearing today.
I also want to acknowledge that this will be our last
hearing in this ,Congress anticipated on Ukraine. We have had a
series of hearings on Ukraine. We have talked about the
military aspects, the humanitarian aspects, and the immigrants.
We have talked about holding accountable those who have
perpetrated this, the Russians, Mr. Putin, for war crimes, for
genocide. We have had a series of hearings, which is the
appropriate role for the Helsinki Commission. I just really
want to acknowledge the incredible cooperation this Commission
has had from its leadership.
I want to acknowledge Senator Wicker for his passion and
leadership on these issues. He has worked tirelessly,
internationally as well as here in the United States.
Congressman Wilson has been a true partner, and I thank him
very much for his support during my Chairmanship. I hope to
reciprocate in the next two years. I also would like to
acknowledge Representative Cohen for his leadership on the
Commission. This is a nonpartisan, bipartisan commission that
has focused on the issues. No issue has been more important to
us than standing up to the atrocities committed by Mr. Putin
and Russia in this unprovoked attack on a sovereign nation.
This has been our priority. I also want to acknowledge the
staff work that is done by the Helsinki Commission. We have
just an incredible staff that does yeoman's work. We do not
have a large staff, but we have a very experienced staff that
has done great work, including arranging for such a
distinguished group of people to be before us. I say that
because the fight in Ukraine is a fight that we all are engaged
in, for many reasons. One is the unprovoked attack on a
sovereign nation. We should stand behind Ukraine in that
regard. Secondly, they are the front line of defense on
democratic states. We know that Mr. Putin's desire goes well
beyond Ukraine to other countries in the region, other
sovereign countries in the region, and to bring down democratic
states.
This is a fight that we all need to be engaged in. Yes, we
may have some differences as to the types of equipment that we
are making available, but we are committed to working with our
international partners to make sure Ukraine has the defensive
weapons it needs to defend itself. We also are committed to
helping in regards to the humanitarian crisis, including those
who have been displaced as a result of the war. I can tell you,
this commission will stay singularly focused for holding
accountable the perpetrators of these atrocities for the
damages they caused and the criminal activities that they have
participated in.
We will stick with this issue. Today, I must tell you, from
the beginning we have been just amazed on the incredible
talent, commitment, energy, spirit of the Ukrainian people. It
is hard just to describe how impressive your leaders and the
Ukrainian peoples themselves have been in standing up to a much
larger country, and military, and Mr. Putin. You have conducted
your defense with dignity and respect for life, and that is
what we expect from a democratic state. So we admire greatly
all your work.
Today's hearing on talking about how the non-military
engagements have been involved in military operations, how you
have been able to supplement the formal military establishment
of Ukraine. With very little outside donations and support, how
you have been able to mobilize the country to defend itself,
mobilizing the people of Ukraine, giving them the capacity to
defend their own country. We have some very, very distinguished
guests. I am going to recognize first Senator Wicker, because
the two of us need to leave shortly. Then I will proudly turn
the gavel over, not permanently because there is still one more
hearing to go--[laughter]--to Congressman Wilson.
Senator Wicker.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ROGER F. WICKER, RANKING MEMBER, U.S.
SENATOR FROM MISSISSIPPI
Co-Chairman Wicker: Thank you very much, Senator Cardin. I
adopt and endorse as my own every single word that Senator
Cardin said in his opening statement. Mine will be much
briefer, to make an extra point. We are honored to have this
distinguished panel. Ukraine must win this war. If they do not,
malign actors around the world will only be emboldened. The
United States needs to ensure that we are not creating
unnecessary red tape or being in the way, somehow hampering the
victory of the Ukrainian people.
Let me take a personal note, a note of personal privilege,
in remembering that in October, two distinguished professors
from my state and from Mississippi State University, Dr.
Banerjee and Dr. Tkach published an article in Foreign Affairs
highlighting how red tamp is hindering our partners from being
able to produce and obtain the equipment they need for the
battlefield. For example, the State Department's International
Traffic in Arms Relations, better known as ITAR, is critical to
protecting our national security. Yet, it is currently
preventing our allies from producing certain weapons for
Ukraine. These regulations need to be updated so that they can
serve our interests better.
Providing these weapons could have an immediate impact on
the war in Ukraine as winter sets in. Ukrainians have shown
they are fully motivated to win and to finance it however they
can, including through crowdsourcing. They need more tanks,
armored personnel carriers, and long-range missiles. But they
also need body armor, winter uniforms, vehicles, medical
supplies, and drones to keep the defense going. This is an area
where your organizations have been decisive, and where anyone
willing to donate can make a difference.
I greet our distinguished panel, thank them for their
sacrifice and the information they will provide to us. We need
to do more to stand with Ukraine. We need to do more as a
country and as an OSCE. We need to get them every piece of
equipment they need. The goal is not a stalemate. It is not a
temporary armistice. It is victory. Anything less than a return
to Ukraine's sovereign borders will give Russia time to regroup
and return to battle. I am confident that with strong volunteer
support, Ukraine will win the victory.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chairman Cardin: With that, I will turn the gavel over to
Congressman Wilson.
STATEMENT OF JOE WILSON, RANKING MEMBER, U.S. HOUSE FROM SOUTH
CAROLINA
Representative Wilson: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman,
Senator Ben Cardin, and actually for everyone here. You are
seeing something that is really remarkable, and that is with
the leadership of Senator Cardin, this really has been a
bipartisan Commission. There has never been really an issue I
have seen where Republicans and Democrats have come together in
such strength and purpose to support the people of Ukraine for
victory. With that, I want to thank you for holding the hearing
today.
Additionally, it is no surprise Senator Wicker is correct,
and that is that we are talking about crowdsourcing victory.
Not stalemate. Not armistice. Not negotiations that we know the
other--war criminal Putin is just simply not going to follow
through. There is no agreement that they have lived up to. So
why should this be now? Thank you--both Senators for your words
of wisdom.
With what I believe that we are in, the world is in a
crucial competition between democracies who live by rule of law
and we are opposed to autocrats who rule by power of gun.
Ukraine is currently the main target, as we can see. Success by
victory will deter the Chinese Communist Party from any efforts
to conduct mass murder in Taiwan. Additionally, the success of
Ukraine is very important.
The other axis of evil, Tehran, has ever intent to fulfill
death to Israel, death to America. Instead of land acquisition,
it is particularly gruesome, Tehran wants to vaporize the
people of Israel. This is why it is so crucial to me and to
most of us, including Senator Shaheen, too, that we would be
working together for the people of Ukraine.
Putin's invasion, it is really now into the ninth month,
but Ukraine remains strong and has demonstrated that it can and
will liberate all of its territory. Indeed, we must support
Ukraine in the goal of complete liberation, a return to the
1991 sovereign borders of Ukraine. Anything less would be a
respite for Russia to regroup and conduct more mass murder
again. I want to thank so much and was so grateful for the
dedicated witnesses who are appearing today.
Your work is a testament to the republican virtue and
everything that is best about free societies. The ability of
Ukraine to self-organize and get much-needed equipment to the
front is among the most extraordinary aspects of the Ukrainian
defense effort. I want to understand how we can facilitate your
jobs and help to accomplish your mission. The voluntary effort
to get Ukrainian forces body armor, optics, drones, and so much
other equipment is an example for the world.
We can see that Putin tragically is sacrificing young
Russians for his personal gain of oil, money, and power. With
this, we also want to recognize the distinguished guest we have
the audience. We have the deputy minister for infrastructure of
Ukraine, Oleksandra Azarkhina. Additionally, we have Ukrainian
MP Oleksiy Goncharenko. We have Rip Rawlings, who heads
Ripley's Heroes and is helping to get much-needed supplies to
Ukrainian forces. Sarah Ashton-Cirillo, who has been reporting
from the front.
With that, I yield back and--actually, yield to Senator
Shaheen.
STATEMENT OF JEANNE SHANEEN, U.S. SENATE FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE
Senator Shaneen: Thank you, Congressman. I do not have an
opening statement other than to thank the witnesses. Because I
have to leave for the briefing, hopefully we can hear from as
many of them as possible before I have to leave. Thank you all.
Representative Wilson: Thank you very much. With that, we
will begin with our witnesses. We will begin left to right. At
this time if you could introduce yourself, we are very grateful
to have with us the Serhiy Prytula. Please pronounce your name
correctly, so the world knows, Okay? Because, hey, we are proud
of you being here.
STATEMENT OF SERHIY PRYTULA, FOUNDER AND CHAIRMAN OF THE
UKRAINE-BASED PRYTULA CHARITY FOUNDATION
Ms. Prytula: That is usually the case, no worries. Dear
Congressmen, dear ladies and gentlemen, my name is Serhiy
Prytula. I am the founder of the Prytula Charity Foundation. It
is a great honor to speak to you here in the United States
Congress. My colleagues and I represent the Ukrainian volunteer
community, which is an inherent part of Ukrainian civil
society. To speak truthfully, it is hard to divide our
societies into civil and military during the war. It is better
to call them people who defend our state with weapons and
people who bring them the bullets.
Since February 2022, our foundation has raised more than
$85 million for the needs of Ukrainian Army. We delivered more
than 3,000 drones, including three Bayraktars too; 11,000
communication systems; 850 vehicles, including armored ones. We
also bought a satellite and access to the database of the
entire constellation of satellites. It would be impossible
without the true trust and support of millions of Ukrainians,
no matter in Ukraine or abroad.
We are not alone in this fight. On behalf of Ukrainian
people, I am grateful to the people of the United States of
America, thousands of men and women who stand with us, consult,
train, volunteer, and listen to us. The values we share as
nations, will for freedom, the rule of law, and the value of
human life are not just words, but imperatives worth fighting
for. We also are grateful for the military supplies that play a
key role in our advantage on the battlefield.
Do we need more weapon? Yes, we do. We need more effective
weapons to advance and save the lives of our people. It will be
more effective to help us win this war as soon as possible. It
is much cheaper to help Ukraine win this war now than to spend
more money later on fighting Russian aggression in Poland or
Lithuania. It should be clear for everyone that Russia will not
stop in Ukraine.
The next step for all of us is to ensure justice. Russian
war crimes should be investigated. Their executors, from
decisionmakers in Kremlin to the war criminals in the trenches,
should be punished. Russia should be recognized as a state
sponsor of terrorism and excluded from the United Nation
Security Council. Bringing justice to those who suffered at the
hands of Russians is essential for the safety of our future.
Please know that Ukraine's volunteer community and civil
society are your strategic partners. After the victory, we will
not disappear or lose momentum. We will keep balancing the
government, ensuring that our country develop democratically,
and that the deep relationship and cooperation between Ukraine
and the United States of America continue into the future.
Again, let me thank you for your support of Ukraine, your
strong belief in our nation and our victory. We are invincible
when united. Thank you.
Representative Wilson: Thank you very much, Director, for
your service. We appreciate so much Come Back Alive. That is so
impressive, $85 million raised. That is incredible, by any
standards. We are--thank you for your success. We now have as
the president of the U.S.-based nongovernment organization,
Razom for Ukraine, Dora Chomiak.
STATEMENT OF DORA CHOMIAK, PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.-BASED
NONGOVERNMENT ORGANIZATION, RAZOM FOR UKRAINE
Ms. Chomiak: Yes. Ranking Member Wilson, Senator Shaheen,
and to all the distinguished members of the Commission, it is a
special privilege to speak with you today, since you and your
staff have been at the forefront of the effort to see democracy
succeed in Ukraine. Personally, for me, it is extra special
because a few lifetimes ago I was an intern at the Commission
as a high school student at McLean High School. It is nice to
come full circle.
My name is Dora Chomiak. I am the president of Razom. In
Ukrainian, that means ``together.'' We are an American--
Ukrainian organization that grew out of the 2014 revolution of
dignity. We are not a political party. We are not a business.
We are squarely in the civil society sector. Our mission is to
help build a more prosperous and democratic Ukraine. We do this
by unlocking the potential that is in Ukraine.
Looking at the focus of today's hearing, I would like to
underscore the word ``Victory'' in the title. It is an apt word
choice. The goal for the United States, the goal for Ukraine,
and the goal for Razom is victory. We should not be shy about
this. First, it is my belief that the United States, including
Congress, must do everything in its power to make support
available and accessible to Ukraine. Second, this is not only a
sound policy, but--and I see this in my work every single day--
the American people want Ukraine to prevail.
Indeed, Americans, from 433 of the 435 Congressional
Districts, have already donated to Razom. We have many examples
of individuals asking their friends or family to forego giving
a Christmas gift or a birthday gift this year, and instead of
using that money to send emergency medical supplies or warm
winter clothing to Ukraine. Donations come from organizations
too, such as the Construction Workers Unions and Jewish
Community Groups and Temples. In North Little Rock, Arkansas,
parishioners of the Lakewood United Methodist Church from the
Bob Millett Bible Class took it upon themselves to raise money
for Ukraine, and donated it to Razom. We have received
donations from workers at a terminal at JFK airport, from the
Jewish Federation of Greater Washington, personal favorite, the
Obec Brewing Company in Seattle, Washington, and many others.
Razom is providing critical humanitarian war relief and
recovery to address the most urgent needs as they evolve. We
have built an end-to-end procurement and delivery system that
places all aids into the hands of people in Ukraine very close
to the front lines. We believe tactical medical supplies, like
individual first aid kits, medic backpacks, tourniquets,
hospital equipment, would vacuum assistant closure devices, and
communications equipment like two-way radios, satellite phones,
and quadcopters, that are used by first responders. People in
Ukraine demonstrate immense resilience and determination each
day. We, Americans, partner with them to defend democracy and
rule of law for all of us together.
I would like to share a story from one of our grant
recipients. His name is Mykola Minaev. I met him on video
earlier this year. He was sitting in his gamer chair with the
red racing stripes on either side. Until February 24th, Mykola
ran a taxi company in the city of Kharkiv. Since then, once he
evacuated a bunch of people, he is pivoted his taxi company
into an aid group. They have moved 5,000 families away from the
fighting in the very early days of the war.
They set up a sustainable food delivery system for those
still in harm's way. Razom gave him a grant so he could
purchase over 100 tons of food and 20,000 liters of fuel to
sustain the assembly and delivery of 15,000 food aid kits per
month. This is just one example of the drive, the ingenuity,
the creativity of Ukrainians to solve problems. But for Mykola
to keep helping people, he needs security. He needs something
to protect him from the mines and the missiles. He needs funds
for fuel and food. He needs our partnership.
I want to finish by sharing a story about the last time I
was here in Washington, and what it means to work together.
Three months ago I was here on the Hill and I saw a friend who
I had met a few years ago. She is a Ukrainian soldier and an
activist. Her name is Andriana. She had left the front lines to
spend a couple days in D.C. to help explain what is happening
in Ukraine, and to advocate for armored vehicles, and saying it
is hard to win the war riding in Mitsubishis and Toyotas. We
had a great impromptu reunion in front of the Rayburn Building.
I brought you a picture of her with my mom. That is Andriana,
my mom, a little impromptu meeting on the Hill. This is for
everyone behind me.
Nine days ago, she was on a call with our team explaining
that the units in her region were still relying on civilian
vehicles and lacking in defense armor. Seven days ago, on my
phone in our Razom leadership chat, I got a note that her car
was hit and it was not clear if she was going to make it. My
colleague, co-founder of Razom, Lubya Shipovich, was going to
be joining us here today. Instead, she is in the hospital with
Andriana. I do not want any more of my team, my colleagues, or
my friends to wind up in hospitals. I know the American people
support Ukrainian victory. Together, we Americans are
crowdsourcing to support that victory. The question is, will
Congress authorize the aid Ukraine needs? Will the U.S. provide
the aid in time? I look forward to your questions. Thank you
very much.
Representative Wilson: Thank you, Ms. Chomiak. Indeed, it
is so refreshing to have the alumni of this organization be so
successful. Also, you are a living example of Ukrainian
Americans making such a difference, and it is exciting.
I want to correct for the record that, indeed, Serhiy
Prytula is the founder and chairman of the Ukraine-based
Prytula Charity Foundation. Congratulations on your success. I
am going to restate it, $85 million. Congratulations. It is so
meaningful for the people of Ukraine.
At this time, indeed, we have Taras Chmut. I was grateful
to be with Taras yesterday. What an inspiring individual. He is
the director of the Ukraine-based Come Back Alive.
STATEMENT OF TARAS CHMUT, DIRECTOR OF THE UKRAINE-BASED COME
BACK ALIVE
Mr. Chmut: Greetings. To start off, I would like to thank
the entire American people for their ongoing long-term support
to Ukraine. I am also grateful to Helsinki Commission for
inviting me and for addressing the important issues of how to
increase the effectiveness of assistance provision to Ukraine.
My name is Taras Chmut. I am a Marine and a war veteran. I
manage the Come Back Alive Foundation. We have been operating
since 2014 as a public and a political organization. Since the
start of our work, the foundation has raised over $250 million
U.S. Our goal is comprehensive support and provision to Ukraine
Defense Force with technical means to achieve superiority on
the battlefield. Including night and thermal visions, drones,
communication devices, vehicles, and thousands of other items.
We are modernizing air defense systems and repairing U.S.
Humvees.
We are the first one in Ukraine to obtain a license to buy
military goods. In May this year, we bought a Turkish
Bayraktar, the UAV combat system. Everything we are doing is in
response to the terrible war that take dozens if not hundreds
of lives daily. Equipment and weapons are continuously lost in
the war. There is--there is a need to equip our military. We
must make up for those losses and replenish equipment, as long
as defenders of Ukraine continue to fight. That included
Americans who joined this war as volunteers. Since the
beginning of the full-scale Russian invasions Come Back Alive
has built up collaboration with U.S.-based organizations that
procure and supply our logistical network with thousands of
bulletproof vests, helmets, first aid kits, and other
essentials that have been in critical needs.
That is why I would like to say it is very important for
the United States to remove Ukraine from the crime control
columns of the Commerce control list. That will allow us to
deliver critically needed equipment, such as holographic weapon
sights, quickly, efficiently and effective. Thank you.
Representative Wilson: Thank you very much, Director Chmut.
We will now proceed. It is so significant, Jonas Ohman, who
is the founder and head of the Lithuania-based nongovernmental
organization Blue/Yellow for Ukraine. We welcome you here
today. Lithuania has just been a beacon and a hallmark
supporting the people of Ukraine.
STATEMENT OF JONAS OHMAN, FOUNDER AND HEAD OF THE LITHUANIA-
BASED NONGOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATION BLUE/YELLOW FOR UKRAINE
Mr. Ohman: First, I would like to thank the Helsinki
Committee and more generally the U.S. Congress, its members and
its staff, for providing us and our fellow panelists with this
opportunity to discuss the significant contribution of civil
society to Ukraine's success in Russia's war on Ukraine.
Briefly about our organization: Blue/Yellow, which is a
Lithuanian-U.S. organization active since 2014, we have
gathered approximately $40 million U.S., mainly but not only
from Lithuanian society. We are providing on a daily basis a
wide range of nonlethal military, including dual use equipment.
I can give you one example, Lithuanian anti-drone equipment
that is being used as we speak on the frontline, all along it,
in Donbas area. Also, it should be said, we are a non-Ukrainian
organization based in Lithuanian, which is indeed a unique
country when it comes to fighting for freedom.
The role of civil society during the Russian aggression
against Ukraine is one of the future legends of the defenses
and victory of the country. The civil society, of which I and
my fellow partners are friends and are a proud and active part,
throughout almost nine years of war and hostilities contributed
to supply, improvement, and developed a wide range of defensive
capacities to and for the armed forces of Ukraine. At times,
this support has been of utmost importance for solving of
critical challenges. We have done this, importantly, not as a
part of the formal state mechanisms, but rather as an informal
extension of them. From the perspective of the enemy featuring
the so-called hybrid warfare concept, we could be defined as
counter-hybrids.
The work, as described in the written statements by me and
also by my partner in the U.S.--Jonas Ziuraitis, head of the
USA--has a similar goal as the support provided on a
governmental and international level. However, there are a few
features making our support stand out, creating the unique
brand of civil society support of armed forces of Ukraine.
First of all, the support is raised from the public. This means
that there is a continuous need for transparency and
accountability. Without it, the donations would stop. With it,
it is possible to further increase the volume and reach new
levels of support, which has been proved several times by
various civil society organizations with this war by procuring
extremely high-end equipment.
Secondly, the approach to the support provided is always
less is more. With limited funds available, it is paramount to
think hard about what to provide to whom and what quantities.
The need for continuous optimal solutions creates over time a
complex skillset for decision making.
Thirdly, to achieve this, one needs a close understanding
of the realities on the ground in the battlefield. This takes a
decentralized approach, where close and continuous
relationships with separate units, their commanders and other
members, sets the foundation for the support decisions.
Fourth, in order to achieve desired effect in the theater
with small means, speed and agility are of utmost importance.
The mindset of civil society support must be set to fast and
accurate. To reiterate a famous U.S. Commander General Douglas
MacArthur--loss of a battle can often be summarized in two
words: too late. Civil society and its efforts try to beat that
factor continuously, often with excellent results.
All these factors create together the base for what I call
the concept of support warfare with actors as civil society
standing right behind the fighting forces ready willing and
able to provide instant and accurate support for achieving of
success in the battlefield. I see this hearing in the U.S.
Congress primarily as an example of our way to do things--
providing civil society an opportunity to better explain who we
are, what we do, how we do it, and why.
I also see it as an opportunity to provide ideas for what I
would like to call best practices for support in war time. It
is not by accident our organization has been provided--we have
a torch as our call sign. It means follow us.
I give you one example as an advice. Anybody who is
supporting the aggressor actively should be held accountable as
proposed, by instance, in the Resolution on Council of Europe
Parliamentary Assembly, voted on unanimously, parliamentary
legislation, 46 countries.
Once again, I thank the Helsinki Committee for the
opportunity. I invite you all to listen to us to get a more
profound idea of our methods and achievements in order to
further develop and improve the defense of Ukraine, the Western
world and its foundation of freedom and dignity.
Slava Ukraini! [Glory To Ukaine]
Audience members: Heroyam slava! [Glory To The Heroes]
Representative Wilson: Founder Ohman, thank you so much for
your testimony, and again, Lithuania, the other Baltic
Republics--Latvia, Estonia--have just been so supportive of the
people of Ukraine. It is so inspiring to see the Baltic
republics so successful, too, economically. What a message to
people across the Narva River--that the phenomenal success of
the Baltics, if they were to change course in the Russian
Federation, things would be better.
With that in mind, I am really grateful that we have been
joined by Senator Richard Blumenthal from the great state of
Connecticut, and if you would like to make a statement, please,
Senator.
STATEMENT OF RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, U.S. SENATOR FROM CONNECTICUT
Senator Blumenthal: I would just like to thank all of you
for being here today. We have a briefing ongoing which I am
going to have to join, but I am passionately committed to the
cause that you represent here and in fact, will be making, I
hope, a third trip to Ukraine. I have been twice this year.
I am supporting an additional supplemental. The
President's--at least--amount of about $38 billion, but also
the kinds of reforms and values and principles that you
represent and reflect here today. Thanks to every one of you
for your courage and your commitment, and thank you,
Congressman, for giving me this chance to say a few words.
Representative Wilson: Thank you very much, Senator, and
again, we could all tell you that the Congress is bipartisan of
both political parties, supportive of you. But you actually get
to see it, and so it is more than just a statement.
What an unintended consequence of a war criminal Putin to
have unity here in Congress, to have unity with NATO, but even
more extraordinary, the thought that Sweden would give up 200
years of neutrality to become part of NATO that Putin who
claimed to be concerned about having NATO on the doorstep is
going to have to welcome Finland--830 miles of--which is not
threatening. He may claim it, but it is not. It is providing
security.
Then to see also the unity of the European Union. I am
really grateful. I am the founding Co-Chair, Senator, and
colleagues of the EU Caucus, and again, bipartisan working with
Congressman Byrne--Brendan Byrne of Philadelphia.
It was announced a couple of--about two months ago that the
EU is providing $3 billion worth of military equipment to
Ukraine. I got with Brendan, and I said, hey, did you know that
the EU had military equipment. He said, no, and I said I did
not either. [Laughter.]
Well, hey, I have subsequently found out what that meant
was they financed it from other countries, but, hey--
[laughter]--hey, however it gets there, we ask no questions.
[Laughter.]
Again, I want to thank each of you, and just--it is
heartfelt from the people of America. Your success is truly, as
I indicated, a worldwide conflict between democracies, rule of
law, against autocrats who are seeking power by gun.
With that, I am happy to defer any questions, Sir, and if
you have questions before you run?
Senator Blumenthal: I just want to second what you said
about bipartisan cooperation--very, very important. Again,
thank you.
Representative Wilson: Thank you very much, Senator.
We will now proceed into questions, and indeed, this
afternoon the Senate has classified briefings very
appropriately on Ukraine. Then, you should be aware that the
House members are voting on the National Defense Authorization
Act today, and I am really grateful that I am on the Armed
Services Committee.
There are multiple references to America's support for the
people of Ukraine in the National Defense Authorization Act.
Additionally, we are working in every way to replenish our
stocks of equipment, to back up our NATO allies, our EU allies,
so that they can also work together to provide equipment to the
people of Ukraine.
This really is a historic day, and another indication of we
can tell you we are with you, that is nice. But look at what is
being done--the classified briefing, the National Defense
Authorization Act--and I hope--and I am confident that
information will be provided to you as to the multiple
references of how important Ukraine is and victory for
Ukraine--not a negotiated armistice.
With this in mind, beginning with Founder Prytula, if we
could answer several questions. The first is, your respective
organizations have described a gamut of assistance ranging from
winter weather gear and medical equipment to communications and
tactical gear. Is there a division of labor between your
organizations? How do you coordinate among yourselves?
Beginning with Founder Prytula.
Interpreter: Could you please repeat the last sentence of
your question? You said that they made a transfer from
medical--
Represenattive Wilson: How do they coordinate--the
different organizations, how--how do the different
organizations coordinate?
Interpreter: [Off mic.]
Ms. Prytula: Thank you, Senator. As we have good
communication with other foundations in Ukraine, exactly you
can see here Dora Chomiak and Taras Chmut, and we have
communication with Razom and with Come Back Alive.
Not only with Razom, we start to communicate after full-
scale invasion with Come Back Alive. We start to communicate a
few years before this big invasion, and we also have
communication with other foundations in Ukraine and with some
people from Ukrainian volunteer community.
Of course I am talking about big foundations because it is
more simpler for us to check our supplies--everything that we
are buying, brought--and we check which battalions or brigades
get some help from Come Back Alive. After that we do not send
our items to this brigade.
Also we communicate with our Ministry of Defence also. That
is why we help our civility to speak with our Minister of
Defence Oleksii Reznikov, and we also communicated with him
about needs of different units. After that we decided what we
need to buy for our military.
Representative Wilson: Thank you very much, and Ms.
Chomiak?
Ms. Chomiak: If I could build on what Serhiy has said,
looking--the system may--of crowdsourcing, both the funding and
the distribution, may look chaotic and inefficient from afar,
but it is precisely one of its strengths.
If we think back to the Revolution of Dignity at the end of
2013, the beginning of 2014, you may remember those pictures of
the center of KU with all these people standing at rock
concerts, and people warming themselves by the fire. You sort
of think, how on Earth is this working, right? My MBA
operations management head was sort of exploding.
If we look at it more closely, it is precisely these
redundancies in services and this immediate collaboration, and
people coming together, getting something done, moving onto the
next thing, and then regrouping again. That is what is
happening here, and I think this is one of the sources of
resilience, effectiveness and efficiency.
Exactly as Serhiy said, we know each other. We communicate
with each other, and each day is an iteration. In the beginning
it was each hour--every half hour was iteration--how do we get
better and better at what we do?
At Razom, among the things we have done is--you know, it is
Ukraine with an insane level of education and a strong tech
center. So, of course, we built some software.
We have a software system that allows us to keep track--
from procurement, through assigning, through delivery, through
final, and loop back--that allows us to understand who is using
what, how--who is reporting on how it is being used and so
forth. Then being able to share that with other organizations.
Certainly I would encourage people to--it is almost like an
ant hill. Everyone's moving, but--it may look confusing from
outside, but when you speak with people who are actually
receiving this aid and who are using it, it is an iterative
process that keeps getting better and better.
That is why autocracies that are trying to function top-
down are not succeeding, and they are not succeeding in Ukraine
because of this resilience, innovation, individual freedom, and
determination.
Representative Wilson: Thank you so much, Ms. Chomiak.
Mr.--Founder Chmut--Director Chmut?
Interpreter: So did you ask the question, sir?
Representative Wilson: Again, the coordination between
organizations.
Mr. Chmut: Thank you. Thank you, sir.
[Continues through interpreter.] Our foundation has been
active since 2014. [Comes on mic.] Our foundation has been
active since 2014. In the course of these years, we have been
able to build up an effective system of logistics and
interaction with Ukraine's military.
What we do is closely coordinated with commander in chief
of Ukraine's military General Zaluzhnyi, the commanders of
logistics of the military, those who are directly responsible
for supplies for the military. We do not try to substitute the
state.
Our aspiration is to give more strength to the state where
it is needed. Or sometimes we help the state, the government,
to gain time that they may need to find--to gain more
resources.
We also want to reinforce and amplify the assistance that
comes from Western governments, and we also help adjusting it
to the realities of the war in Ukraine. This is what helps--has
helped us to work competently and effectively in the course of
all these years.
Representative Wilson: Congratulations, Director. That is
tremendous.
Founder Ohman?
Mr. Ohman: As a non-Ukrainian organization, I dare to say,
we work a little differently. Needless to say, we are in touch
with other organizations on specific issues, and sometimes we
cooperate.
However, we have chosen a somewhat different approach. We
try and identify the fighters. We are talking mainly battalion
level. We said that would be a very good level to go in there,
actually to identify good commanders, good fighters.
We identify the needs of these units. I can give you one
example. During the Kherson offensive, we were following very
closely behind a couple of the advancing units, asking them on
a daily basis for specific needs--what they needed.
I can give you one example. For artillery correction, a
little better drones--RTK 300, which were used day and night
for the--for instance, by working with the 777 systems provided
by the United States.
We also have a couple of unique capacities that we provide
to anybody who asks for it. From Lithuania, for instance, anti-
drone systems with a unique potential, and also thermal vision,
et cetera--said that we can provide and we can even get the
licenses from the Lithuanian Government, which we are
cooperating intimately.
That said, as already mentioned before, this civil society
movement--obviously we are all--everybody--we, more or less,
know each other. The social element of it--that we are in
touch, we know each other, or we know who know's somebody. This
has turned out to be a crucial part of this endeavor.
You can always get in touch with who you would like to
actually get things done. The informal aspect of the civil
society movement in Ukraine, supporting Ukraine, the Ukrainian
Armed Forces cannot be underestimated.
Yes, we can be formal as well, but especially these
personal initiatives--and sometimes providing extremely
interesting results. Again, we definitely--sorry, I forgot one
thing I want to mention also. We do at the same time critically
perceive the support provided from the West.
We feel that we have kind of like a moral obligation to
tell and try to communicate when we see, for instance, how
support is not provided as fast and as accurate as it could. We
are--we have been addressing this, for instance, with D.C. a
couple of times. I am not saying that it is not working, but it
is too slow. That is something that has to be considered.
Thank you very much.
Representative Wilson: Thank you very much. Indeed,
logistics has been revolutionized substantially for people at
home by using a barcode, and so now you can identify items that
you have by inventory.
Items can be specifically identified in the remotest areas,
and then provided, again, to the remotest area through the
barcode that we are so familiar with at the grocery store or
drug store. That enables a complete logistics assessment that
makes what you are doing is so helpful, and so meaningful.
Now we have been joined--again, a living example of
Republicans and Democrats working together in an unheard-of
situation, but we have come together for the people of Ukraine.
Congressman Ruben Gallego of Arizona.
STATEMENT OF RUBEN GALLEGO, U.S. HOUSE FROM ARIZONA
Representative Gallego: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Chomiak--I hope I said that correctly--
Ms. Chomiak: Just Ms. I do not have a doctorate yet, just
Ms. [Laughs.]
Representative Gallego: Ah! Well, in case you want it.
[Laughter.] We will hand them out without the debt, too.
[Laughter.]
Thank you for your testimony and for your leadership on
these urgent humanitarian issues. In your written testimony you
stated that some critical items need an--are under export
restrictions in the U.S., which makes it harder or impossible
to get to Ukraine. Some of the ones you are speaking of were
consumer drones, thermal cameras, and night vision equipment.
Can you talk more specifically about where you find the
greatest hiccups in this export process?
Ms. Chomiak: Absolutely. Thank you very much for that
question.
We have found some hiccups, and specifically, it is in
protective equipment--bulletproof vests and helmets of level
three and four. We have been able to get those onto our
drivers.
For example, we have drivers that go into small vans and go
straight into the hot zones and back again. But it is--we did
that with a partner organization. That is very difficult.
More and more now there is a need for night vision
equipment. This is really so that when people are delivering
aid and moving around, they are able to see what is happening,
and of course, now, as it is the time of year where it gets
darker faster and the assault on the electrical grid in Ukraine
makes it literally darker, that becomes more important.
We also have had some challenges with civil and enterprise
drones that are, sort of--in my laymen's terms--like binoculars
in the sky, so drivers know what is coming up ahead so they can
get safer, and then communications equipment, which is so
important, because yes, everyone's got a cell phone in Ukraine,
but when you are--when there are bad guys around you want to be
able to speak in encrypted radios so that you can get that aid
to where it needs to go.
Those are some of the things that we have tripped up on, so
issue--if you with your colleagues could work with the
executive branch to issue a general license so this kind of
equipment could come to Ukraine, and it do not need to come
through our organization--through any organization. If it can
be put in the hands of Ukrainians so they can stay safe, then I
think we can save a lot of lives because our goal continues to
be to build a prosperous Ukraine. Right now it is meant--
stopping the bleeding and saving lives, but we continue to do
education programs, and culture programs, and investment
programs.
I would encourage you to also think in terms of the
investment in Ukraine. What we are all learning here as a
global community of people who respect rule of law is also this
opportunity for innovation and investment in technologies--like
whether it is barcodes or any kind of communications--there is
really a lot of potential and opportunity. That if we can
smooth the process of things getting back and forth, I think we
will all live more comfortably.
Representative Gallego: Thank you. Mr. Chmut,
congratulations to Come Back Alive for becoming the first
charitable organization in Ukraine to receive a license for the
purchase and import of military and dual--use goods.
You stressed the importance of removing Ukraine from the
crime-control column of the commerce-control list. How would
this change impact Come Back Alive, and what would you then be
able to provide for Ukraine's defense?
Mr. Chmut: [Through interpreter.] Thank you for your
question. For us and for our American partners, this will allow
to purchase American equipment and technology faster than
before. If Ukraine is removed from that column of that category
that you mentioned, that will speed up delivery of supplies for
Ukraine tremendously.
It is unfortunate that the war has such a big scale, and
the losses are so significant that the Ukrainian government on
its own can--or even government help from the United States
cannot fully cover all those needs that continue to exist. This
is why it is so important for us to achieve all possible
simplifications of the procedures that will make our work more
effective.
Representative Gallego: Thank you. The next question is for
Mr. Ohman.
As somebody who has witnessed the evolving frontline role
of Ukraine's civil society, do you see pathways toward greater
cooperation between Ukraine civil society and international
partners? In what ways can the international community help you
expand networks and effectively employ the experience you and
others have built up over the last few years helping Ukraine?
Mr. Ohman: Yes, indeed. Thank you for the question. It is a
very intricate one.
We must understand it is very important--I will just give
you one example. Lithuania, where we have this impressive, may
I say, support from the civil society in general, in terms of
fundraising, et cetera, et cetera, whereas in other countries
it is a very different situation--where people consider the
world order differently.
We are working with a challenge, as we speak, trying to
find ways to actually, so to speak, increase the awareness of
the situation in Ukraine and the need--as some have said, this
is our war. We have to deal with it, all of us, because
otherwise the consequence may be extremely dire.
As for--I would like to take this to a little different
level. When we are talking about international cooperation,
let's say also with government actors. At points--I can give
you one example. We have been using NATO habinjeshof for
getting things--items, equipment--into Ukraine fast without
sort of cutting some of the tape.
This has been done in cooperation with parts of the NATO
establishment with the great knowledge of officers, et cetera.
We see--this is my remark--we see definitely--we also have been
supporting, for instance, the Ukrainian Special Forces heavily
with night vision and other high-end items via the Lithuanian
Special Forces.
This cooperation is already happening, but on a smaller
level. I definitely would like to address the need for a
discussion, a dialogue, exactly on these issues. We, the civil
society, have proven, may I say, our capacity, our
capabilities, and our abilities in Ukraine over many, many
years, and I would definitely welcome a somewhat more--a more
open-minded mindset from--let's say, from the supporting
parties in the West--NATO, U.S. and others.
How could we do this? I think we all agree that we have to
do more. We have to be smarter. We have to do things more
efficiently. For that, we have to find the ways.
I would like to see this hearing maybe as a start for this
dialogue because this has to be discussed. We have shown we can
do things, and we have shown that we have ways, sometimes.
Sometimes when we are up to 10 to 20 times faster than the
support coming in from abroad. I have several specific examples
of that.
I think yes, I welcome your question. I mean, turning it
back to you, we are open for dialogue. Let's talk.
Thank you.
Representative Gallego: Thank you, Mr. Ohman. I have been
also very lucky to see U.S. civil society and helped where I
can to send support over and been very encouraged by a lot of
patriotic Americans and patriotic Ukrainian-Americans that have
been wanting to help out. Of course, whatever we can do here in
Congress we shall continue to do.
It is a pleasure working with my good friend Mr. Wilson on
issues when it comes to Ukraine, so I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Representative Wilson: Thank you very much, and again, you
see heartfelt support by Democrats and Republicans for the
people of Ukraine.
Mr.--Director Chmut, it should be noted that the four
organizations that are here have actually raised almost a
billion dollars from small donors across Ukraine, across
Europe, from around the world, from the United States, from
small donors.
It is with that an issue that has come up that I would like
Director Chmut to answer and then the rest of you, too, and
that is, a concern as to oversight, Come Back Alive--how does
Come Back Alive conduct oversight to make sure that the
equipment is getting to the right people at the right time,
that there is not a misuse, that there is not a diversion?
We need to reassure taxpayers and donors, and so if each of
you could address that. It is an issue that needs to be
addressed, and I know that you can.
Mr. Chmut: [Through interpreter.] Of course I can answer
this. The war has been in place for almost nine years now, and
in the course of this time we were able to develop an effective
system of interaction with the military forces.
All the things that we donate are officially put on the
stock list of the military, of actually specific units of the
military forces so the general staff and the logistics command
know precisely what we delivered and to whom and how much. That
way, they do not need to repeat what we were doing and we do
not repeat what they are doing.
Along with that, our field managers have access to every
unit with which we collaborate and to which we have made
deliveries. They are allowed to come in at any time and check
in person where is--where are the things we delivered and in
what condition they are. This is our oversight. If a certain
item was destroyed or damaged in battle, we can come and make
sure that it really was damaged or destroyed but not, like,
stolen or something.
The key, too, here is that we have close contact with
specific units at the level of battalions or even companies.
Owing to that, we can confidently verify everything that is
needed.
Representative Wilson: That is excellent, Director. Thank
you.
Founder Prytula.
Ms. Prytula: Yes. You need to understand that we take a big
responsibility with people's money because all Ukrainian
society, they donate to our foundations, even little kids. From
August of this year until this moment, little kids in age five
years, eight years, 10 years, they bring to our foundation
about $200,000.
Representative Wilson: Wow.
Ms. Prytula: Yes. That is something unbelievable and we
have a lot of different stories about little kids, a little
girl that just cut her hair to sell it and to bring money to
our foundation to help the Ukrainian Army. It is why we live
with this responsibility.
Also, we all start to be volunteers from 2014. That is why
we have not only experience; we know a lot of commanders and we
had a lot of possibilities to check them. That is why we trust
them. A lot of people trust us. We trust our military. We also
trust our logistic forces. As said my colleague, we send them
all information about our supplies because customs control us
and we also need to control our military in some way. We have
in this way.
Representative Wilson: Thank you very much.
President Chomiak.
Ms. Chomiak: If I can build on what both of my esteemed
colleagues have said and say Razom also follows procedures of
inventory lists and handing things to the--to the right end
user and keeping track of it. We take with great responsibility
our over 150,000 donors from every state and several countries.
On top of that, I just want to add that this works because
the people who are doing this, when we talk about a trusted
network, when we talk about volunteering since 2014 or even
sooner, I would just ask everyone to think about who you went
to middle school with. Imagine someone in your middle-school
science class, right? That person knows you in a different way
than any professional person. Those are the kinds of people
that are working together now. It is people who have known each
other for years, and it is these personal ties, and it is the
responsibility in front of the child that did a bake sale.
Or in Arizona there is a fantastic group called the Cactus
and the Trident, which I just have to give a shout out to
because you are here, Representative Gallego. Groups like this
that--and this responsibility in front of them, but also it is
people in Ukraine who are building their country. I think they
have a lot to teach us Americans here, what that means is
showing up and doing something every day and showing up again.
I think it is inspiring and very helpful to remember that it is
people making connections with other people and trusting each
other. That is how it works.
Representative Wilson: Thank you.
Founder Ohman?
Mr. Ohman: Yes. To answer, I agree with all previous
speakers.
I guess to recite to my initial remarks, we have no choice.
We have to provide accountability. We have to give an idea what
we do with the money. Yes, it is people's money. We need to
create--we have systems for it, obviously. We hand over end-
user certificates, acts of--upon receiving the goods, et
cetera, et cetera, and--because we have to. Again, we are--our
accountability is a crucial part of our actions.
If you will allow Rima, she would like to say a few words
in addition to that.
STATEMENT OF RIMA ZIURAITIENE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BLUE/YELLOW
USA
Ms. Ziuraitiene: Well, first, Congressman Wilson, thank you
for your words about Lithuania as being an international
leader. We appreciate your support.
Also, I am the managing director of Blue/Yellow USA
nonprofit. We run the same type of accountability standards as
well. We have inventory lists. We focus on where everything
goes. We speak directly with units. We get official stamped
requests. Nothing leaves without an official request. We also
have a system wherever--whenever one thing is, you know, given
out to a unit, we mark it. Everything is marked and tracked,
especially because--it is true--it is public donor money and we
have to be very careful with where it goes.
Represntative Wilson: Indeed, back to Lithuania. On my
visits to the Baltic republics--Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania--I
am always so grateful to be aware that the United States never
recognized the Soviet occupation of the Baltic republics. We
always stood for the independence of the three Baltic
republics. Then this really is an inspiration to the people of
Ukraine, and that is that the economic success which is so
obvious for the Baltic republics. Wow. Now, with Finland and
Sweden part of NATO, the security level for the Baltics has
never been better. We have so much to be grateful for and look
forward to.
I would point out another point. To back up your
maintenance of the integrity of your donations, we are in a
world today of cellphones. In this world, everything is seen.
Everything is recorded. That is helpful to you and it is
helpful to your donors and taxpayers to know that the equipment
can be so well-monitored--that prior to the incredible
cellphone capabilities it could not be done, but it can now. I
see that as reassuring.
At this time, if there are no further questions--and again,
what a superstar Congressman Gallego is, Ruben Gallego from the
beautiful state of Arizona. He truly has been a champion for
the people of Ukraine and it is been very inspiring. As you
saw, our Senate colleagues--as we like to refer to them as
members of the House of Lords. [Laughter.] We are just so
fortunate to have, again, in such a bipartisan manner.
At this time, as we conclude, I woud like for Congressman
Gallego and I to join you. Please stay seated. We would like--
everybody looks so good, I want the world to see this. We want
to get a picture of you seated, Okay? The bear, Mademoiselle,
what is the--
Mr. Ohman: It is our spiritual leader panda.
Representative Wilson: Panda.
Mr. Ohman: It--[inaudible]--in the front line. Mr. Kyle
Parker in the back has been together with him in Kherson area
providing night vision to 46th Brigade. So, yes.
Representative Wilson: Oh, fantastic. Well, I could not
pass without asking what the panda was.
Hey, with that, we are adjourned. [Sounds gavel.]
[Whereupon, at 3:39 p.m., the hearing ended.]