[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
EXAMINING THE POLICIES AND PRIORITIES
OF THE BUREAU OF INDIAN EDUCATION
=======================================================================
JOINT HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
EARLY CHILDHOOD, ELEMENTARY,
AND SECONDARY EDUCATION
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR
AND THE
SUBCOMMITTEE FOR
INDIGENOUS PEOPLES OF
THE UNITED STATES
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, JUNE 28, 2022
__________
Serial No. 117-50
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Labor
and the Committee on Natural Resources
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via: edlabor.house.gov, naturalresources.house.gov, or
www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
48-199 PDF WASHINGTON : 2023
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR
ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia, Chairman
RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina,
JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut Ranking Member
GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN, JOE WILSON, South Carolina
Northern Mariana Islands GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania
FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida TIM WALBERG, Michigan
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin
MARK TAKANO, California ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York
ALMA S. ADAMS, North Carolina RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia
MARK DeSAULNIER, California JIM BANKS, Indiana
DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey JAMES COMER, Kentucky
PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington RUSS FULCHER, Idaho
JOSEPH D. MORELLE, New York FRED KELLER, Pennsylvania
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa
LUCY McBATH, Georgia BURGESS OWENS, Utah
JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut BOB GOOD, Virginia
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan LISA C. McCLAIN, Michigan
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota DIANA HARSHBARGER, Tennessee
HALEY M. STEVENS, Michigan MARY E. MILLER, Illinois
TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, New Mexico VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
MONDAIRE JONES, New York SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
KATHY E. MANNING, North Carolina MADISON CAWTHORN, North Carolina
FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana MICHELLE STEEL, California
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York, Vice-Chair CHRIS JACOBS, New York
MARK POCAN, Wisconsin Vacancy
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas Vacancy
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
SHEILA CHERFILUS-McCORMICK, Florida
Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director
Cyrus Artz, Minority Staff Director
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON EARLY CHILDHOOD, ELEMENTARY, AND SECONDARY EDUCATION
GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN, Northern Mariana Islands, Chairman
JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut BURGESS OWENS, Utah
RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona Ranking Member
JOHN A. YARMUTH, Kentucky GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin
FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia
MARK DeSAULNIER, California FRED KELLER, Pennsylvania
JOSEPH D. MORELLE, New York MARY E. MILLER, Illinois
LUCY McBATH, Georgia MADISON CAWTHORN, North Carolina
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan MICHELLE STEEL, California
KATHY E. MANNING, North Carolina Vacancy
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York Vacancy
ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina
(ex officio)
COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona, Chair
JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois, Vice Chair
GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN, Northern Mariana Islands,
Vice Chair, Insular Affairs
GRACE F. NAPOLITANO, California BRUCE WESTERMAN, Arkansas
JIM COSTA, California Ranking Member
GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN, LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas
Northern Mariana Islands DOUG LAMBORN, Colorado
JARED HUFFMAN, California ROBERT J. WITTMAN, Virginia
ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California TOM McCLINTOCK, California
RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona GARRET GRAVES, Louisiana
JOE NEGUSE, Colorado JODY B. HICE, Georgia
MIKE LEVIN, California AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,
KATIE PORTER, California American Samoa
TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, New Mexico DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida
MELANIE A. STANSBURY, New Mexico JENNIFFER GONZALEZ-COLON,
NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York Puerto Rico
DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado RUSS FULCHER, Idaho
JULIA BROWNLEY, California PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan THOMAS P. TIFFANY, Wisconsin
A. DONALD McEACHIN, Virginia JERRY L. CARL, Alabama
DARREN SOTO, Florida MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, Sr., Montana
MICHAEL F. Q. SAN NICOLAS, Guam BLAKE D. MOORE, Utah
JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois YVETTE HERRELL, New Mexico
ED CASE, Hawaii LAUREN BOEBERT, Colorado
BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota JAY OBERNOLTE, California
STEVE COHEN, Tennessee CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon
PAUL TONKO, New York Vacancy
RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan Vacancy
LORI TRAHAN, Massachusetts
David Watkins, Staff Director
Luis Urbina, Chief Counsel
Vivian Moeglein, Republican Staff Director
http://naturalresources.house.gov
------
SUBCOMMITTEE FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLES OF THE UNITED STATES
TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, New Mexico, Chair
RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona JAY OBERNOLTE, California,
DARREN SOTO, Florida Acting Ranking Member
BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,
MICHAEL F. Q. SAN NICOLAS, Guam American Samoa
ED CASE, Hawaii JERRY L. CARL, Alabama
JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, Sr., Montana
MELANIE A. STANSBURY, New Mexico LAUREN BOEBERT, Colorado
RAUl M. GRIJALVA, Arizona CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon
(ex officio) Vacancy
BRUCE WESTERMAN, Arkansas
(ex officio)
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on June 28, 2022.................................... 1
Statement of Members:
Sablan, Hon. Gregorio Kilili Camacho, Chairman, Subcommittee
on Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education.... 1
Prepared statement of.................................... 4
Owens, Hon. Burgess, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Early
Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education............. 5
Prepared statement of.................................... 6
Leger Fernandez, Hon. Teresa, Chair, Subcommittee for
Indigenous
Peoples of the United States............................... 8
Prepared statement of.................................... 9
Obernolte, Hon. Jay, Acting Ranking Member, Subcommittee for
Indigenous Peoples of the United States.................... 7
Prepared statement of.................................... 8
Statement of Witnesses:
Dearman, Tony, Director, Bureau of Indian Education...... 27
Prepared statement of.................................... 30
Sirois, Beth, Assistant Director, U.S. Government
Accountability Office...................................... 11
Prepared statement of.................................... 13
Additional Submissions:
Questions submitted for the record by:
Chairman Scott
Acting Ranking Member Obernolte.......................... 63
Morelle, Hon. Joseph D., a Representative in Congress
from the State of New York............................. 63
Response to questions submitted for the record by:
Bureau of Indian Education............................... 66
EXAMINING THE POLICIES AND PRIORITIES OF THE BUREAU OF INDIAN EDUCATION
----------
Tuesday, June 28, 2022
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Early Childhood,
Elementary, and Secondary Education,
Committee on Education and Labor, and
Subcommittee for Indigenous Peoples
of the United States,
Committee on Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittees met, pursuant to notice, at 11 a.m. via
Zoom, Hon. Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan (Chairman of the
Subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Sablan, DeSaulnier, Manning,
Bonamici, Leger Fernandez, Soto, Stansbury, Owens, Grothman,
Allen, Keller, Cawthorn, Obernolte, Radewagen, and Bentz.
Staff present: Alston Brittany, Staff Assistant; Phoebe
Ball, Disability Counsel; Amaris Benavidez, Professional Staff;
Nekea Brown, Director of Operations; Rashage Green, Director of
Education Policy and Counsel; Christian Haines, General
Counsel; Rasheedah Hasan, Chief Clerk; Sheila Havenner,
Director of Information; Jayme Holliday, Professional Staff
Technology; Danyelle Honore, Fellow; Stephanie Lalle,
Communications Director; Andre Lindsay, Professional Staff;
Kota Mizutani, Deputy Communications Director; Max Moore,
Policy Associate; Kayla Pennebecker, Staff Assistant; Veronique
Pluviose, Staff Director; Manasi Raveendran, Director of
Education Oversight and Counsel; Paige Schwartz, Legislative
Director; Dhrtvan Sherman, Staff Assistant; Sam Varie, Press
Secretary; Banyon Vassar, Deputy Director of Information
Technology; Claire Viall, Senior Education Policy; ArRone
Washington, Clerk/Special Assistant to the Staff Director;
Cyrus Artz, Minority Staff Director; Cate Dillon, Minority
Director of Operations; Mini Ganesh, Minority Staff Assistant;
Amy Raaf Jones, Minority Director of Education and Human
Resources Policy; David Maestas, Minority Fellow; Hannah
Matesic, Minority Director of Member Services and Coalitions;
Mandy Schaumburg, Minority Chief Counsel and Deputy Director of
Education Policy; and Brad Thomas, Minority Senior Education
Policy Advisor.
Chairman Sablan. So, the Joint Hearing of the House
Education and Labor Subcommittee on Early Childhood Elementary
and Secondary Education and the House Natural Resources
Subcommittee for the Indigenous People of the United States
will now come to order. Welcome everyone. I note that a quorum
is present. The Subcommittees are meeting jointly today to hear
testimony on Examining the Policies and Practices of the Bureau
of Indian Education (BIE).
I note for the Subcommittee that Ms. Bonamici of Oregon is
permitted to participate in today's hearing with the
understanding that her questions will only come after all
Members of the two Subcommittees on both sides of the aisle who
are present and had an opportunity to question the witnesses.
This is an entirely remote hearing; all microphones should
be kept muted as a general rule to avoid unnecessary background
noise.
Members and witnesses will be responsible for unmuting
themselves when they are recognized to speak, or when they wish
to seek recognition. I also ask that Members please identify
themselves before they speak. Members should keep their cameras
on while in the proceeding.
And Members shall be considered present in the proceeding
when they are visible on camera, and they shall be considered
not present when they are not visible on camera. The only
exception to this is if they are experiencing technical
difficulty and inform the Committee staff of such difficulties.
If any Member experiences technical difficulties during the
hearing you should stay connected on the platform, make sure
you are muted, and use your phone to immediately call the
Committee's IT director whose number was provided in advance.
Should the Chair experience technical difficulty, or need
to step away, Ms. Leger Fernandez, as Chair of the House
Natural Resources Subcommittee for the Indigenous People of the
United States, or another Majority Member is hereby authorized
to assume the gavel in the Chair's absence. This is an entirely
remote hearing, and as such, the Subcommittee's hearing room is
officially closed.
Members who choose to sit with their individual devices in
the hearing room must wear headphones to avoid feedback,
echoes, and distortion resulting from more than one person on
the software platform sitting in the same room. Members are
also expected to adhere to social distancing and safe
healthcare guidelines, including the use of masks, hand
sanitizers, and wiping down the areas both before and after
their presence in the hearing room.
In order to ensure the Committee's five-minute rule is
adhered to, staff will be keeping track of time using the
Committee's field timer. The field timer will appear on its own
thumbnail picture and will be named 001_timer. There will be no
one-minute remaining warning. The field timer will show a
blinking light when time is up. Members and witnesses are asked
to please wrap up promptly when their time has expired.
Pursuant to Committee Rule 8(c) opening statements are
limited to the Subcommittee Chairs and Ranking Members. This
allows us to hear from our witnesses sooner and provides all
Members with adequate time to ask questions. I now recognize
myself for the purpose of making an opening statement.
So, today we're meeting to examine the role of the Bureau
of Indian Education in serving American Indian and Alaskan
Native students. The Federal Government has responsibility to
Indian tribes bound by both the United States Constitution and
moral responsibility.
Education is a core part of this obligation. Unfortunately,
our commitment to faithfully educate and support American
Indian and Alaskan Natives, or AI/AN, students have been marked
by generations of the abuse and neglect. A report released last
month from the Department of Interior on Federal Indian
boarding schools from 1820 to 1969 found a history of low-
quality education, military strategies to erase the identity of
AI/AN students and physical, sexual, and emotional abuse.
Tragically these actions carried out by the people
entrusted to educate our children likely contributed to the
deaths of at least 500 American Indians and Alaskan Native
students. Today the Bureau of Education, or the BIE, has a key
role to play in the Federal Government's commitment to
providing a high-quality education to AI/AN students.
BIE schools honor ancestor's and sustain commissions
similar to students that they belong in school. The research
shows that students from underrepresented backgrounds,
including AI/AN students, have higher achievement rates when
cultural specific elements were incorporated into their
curriculum. Despite the importance of BIA schools, American
Indian and Alaskan Native students are still in need of
educational resources and support.
A 2021 study showed that BIA students perform more than two
grade levels below the national average. Even when compared to
AI/AN public school students, BIA students were still roughly
one-third of a grade level behind, and research confirms that
AI/AN students experience higher than average rates of
depression and suicide.
Unfortunately, the pandemic only compounded the
consequences of our multi-generational neglect of AI/AN
students. During the pandemic, Native Americans lost their
lives at higher rates compared to other demographics in the
United States. Student achievement declined and mental health
challenges worsened.
The loss of tribal Members inflicted an immeasurable loss
to Native American's traditions and languages. Now more than
ever the education of the future of American Indian and Alaskan
Native students and communities form the strength of BIE-funded
schools.
To that end over the past 2 years congressional democrats
have secured historic investments in education, including 990
million dollars in dedicated funding to help AI/AN students get
back on track. BIE schools can use these funds to protect the
health and safety of students and staff, address learning loss,
and support students' social and emotional needs.
However, we know these investments alone will not solve the
underlying issues that BIE schools face. According to the
studies conducted by the Government Accountability Office
(GAO), poor management and accountability challenges have
prevented BIE from repairing dilapidated school facilities,
fully serving students with disabilities, and meeting students'
academic and mental health needs.
Today we have an opportunity to examine the steps BIE has
taken to fulfill its responsibility to students. I am committed
to securing sustained and strategic investments to ensure BIE
can improve its operations and address the urgent challenges
facing AI/AN students.
For example, President Biden's budget proposal for Fiscal
Year 2023 calls for $1.6 billion for the BIE, a 500 million
dollar increase above the Fiscal Year 2022 enacted level,
including more than 890 million for K-12education. These
investments are not only critical to the education of our
Nation's students, but to the future of American Indian and
Alaskan Native communities and our Constitutional commitment to
them.
So, thank you again, Director Dearman for your services to
your service to AIAN students, and I look forward to our
discussions alongside Ms. Sirois of the Government
Accountability Office. Thank you and I now recognize Ranking
Member Mr. Owens of Utah for the purpose of making an opening
statement. Mr. Owens, please. I think you need to unmute Mr.
Owens. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Sablan follows:]
Statement of Hon. Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, Chairman,
Subcommittee on Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education
Today, we are meeting to examine the role of the Bureau of Indian
Education in serving American Indian and Alaskan Native students.
The Federal Government has a trust responsibility to Indian tribes
bound by both the U.S. Constitution and moral responsibility. Education
is a core part of this obligation. Unfortunately, our commitment to
faithfully educate and support American Indian and Alaskan Native, or
A-I-A-N, students has been marred by generations of abuse and neglect.
A report released last month from the Department of Interior on
Federal Indian boarding schools from 1820 to 1969 found:
A history of low-quality education,
Militarized strategies to erase the identity of A-I-A-N
students, and
Physical, sexual, and emotional abuse.
Tragically, these actions, carried out by the people entrusted to
educate our children, likely contributed to the deaths of at least 500
American Indiana and Alaskan Native students.
Today, the Bureau of Indian Education, or the B-I-E, has a key role
to play in fulfilling the Federal Government's commitment to providing
a high-quality education to A-I-A-N students.
B-I-E schools honor ancestors and sustain traditions, signaling to
students that they belong in school. Research shows that students from
underrepresented backgrounds-including A-I-A-N students-have higher
achievement rates when cultural-specific elements were incorporated
into their curriculum.
Despite the importance of B-I-E schools, American Indian and
Alaskan Native students are still in need of educational resources and
support.
A 2021 study showed that B-I-E students performed more than two
grade levels below the national average. Even when compared to A-I-A-N
public school students, B-I-E students were still roughly one-third of
a grade level behind. And research confirms that A-I-A-N students
experience higher than average rates of depression and suicide.
Unfortunately, the pandemic only compounded the consequences of our
multigenerational neglect of A-I-A-N students. During the pandemic,
Native Americans lost their lives at higher rates compared to other
demographics in the U.S.; student achievement declined; and mental
health challenges worsened. The loss of tribal members inflicted an
immeasurable loss to Native Americans' traditions and languages.
Now more than ever, the education and future of American Indian and
Alaskan Native students and communities fall on the strength of B-I-E
funded schools.
To that end, over the past 2 years, congressional Democrats have
secured historic investments in education, including $990 million in
dedicated funding to help A-I-A-N students get back on track. B-I-E
schools can use these funds to protect the health and safety of
students and staff, address learning loss, and support students' social
and emotional needs.
However, we know these investments, alone, will not solve the
underlying issues that B-I-E schools face.
According to studies conducted by the Government Accountability
Office, core management and accountability challenges have prevented B-
I-E from repairing dilapidated school facilities, fully serving
students with disabilities, and meeting student's academic and mental
health needs.
Today, we have an opportunity to examine the steps B-I-E is taking
to fulfill its responsibility to students. I am committed to securing
sustained and strategic investments to ensure B-I-E can improve its
operations and address the urgent challenges facing A-I-A-N students.
For example, President Biden's budget proposal for Fiscal Year 2023
called for $1.6 billion for the B-I-E, a $500 million increase above
Fiscal Year 202022 enacted level, including more than $890 million for
K-12 education
These investments are not only critical to the education of our
Nation's students, but to the future of American Indian and Alaska
Native communities and our Constitutional commitment to them.
So, thank you, again, Director Dearman, for your service to A-I-A-N
students, and I look forward to our discussion alongside Ms. Sirois of
the Government Accountability Office.
______
Mr. Owens. OK, sorry about that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman
and also your witnesses here. I'm looking forward to this
conversation. BIE has long been plagued by problems, has been
on the Government Accountability Office, GAO high-risk status
list since 2017. The report issued 65 recommendations for
improvement for BIE operations and performance.
But as of December 2020, 22 of these recommendations remain
open. The schools funded by BIE frequently fail to provide
students with an environment to keep them safe and healthy. For
example, in December 2014 in the Minneapolis Star Tribune, ran
a four-part series of BIE schools focused on the dilapidated
State of the school buildings and argued that the decrepit
conditions are common throughout the system and neglected by
the Federal Government.
A 2013 Politico report called BIE schools the worst schools
in America citing the worst schools in America, citing one
school on a Navajo reservation that had cracks running down the
walls, leaky pipes in the floors, and asbestos in the basement.
Additionally, while these schools spend more for people than
non-BIE public schools, student's performance is consistently
lower than that of traditional public school students,
including that of the Navajo, the Native Americans.
The rate of graduation in BIE schools are 53 percent, which
is far below the national average of all Native Americans,
which is 69 percent, and even worse compared to the national
average of all students of 81 percent. It is clear these
schools aren't giving students the education they deserve.
I note BIE has undertaken multiple efforts to reform and
reorganize to better support students, but also know these
reforms seem to have been unsuccessful so far. I look forward
to hearing more from our witnesses about steps the BIE is
taking to finally address GAO's recommendations, but also steps
the BIE is taking to address the far more important problem,
which is way too few students are graduating with skills and
knowledge they need to succeed. Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman, you're on mute.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Owens follows:]
Statement of Hon. Burgess Owens, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Early
Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education
BIE has long been plagued by problems and has been on the
Government Accountability Office (GAO) high-risk status list since
2017. The report issued 65 recommendations for improving BIE operations
and performance, but as of December 2020, 22 of those recommendations
remained open.
The schools funded by BIE frequently fail to provide students with
an environment that keeps them safe and healthy. For example, in
December 2014, the Minneapolis Star Tribune ran a four-part series on
BIE schools focused on the dilapidated State of BIE school buildings
and argued that decrepit conditions are common throughout the BIE
system and neglected by the Federal Government. And a 2015 Politico
report called BIE schools `The Worst Schools in America,' citing one
school on the Navajo reservation that had cracks running down the
walls, leaky pipes in the floors, and asbestos in the basement.
Additionally, while these schools spend more per-pupil than non-BIE
public schools, student performance is consistently lower than that of
traditional public-school students, including that of other Native
Americans. The rate of graduation for BIE students is 53 percent, which
is far below the national average of all Native Americans, which is 69
percent, and is even worse compared to the national average for all
students of 81 percent. It is clear these schools aren't giving
students the education they deserve.
I know BIE has undertaken multiple efforts to reform and reorganize
to better support students, but I also know those reforms seem to have
been unsuccessful so far. I look forward to hearing more from our
witnesses about steps BIE is taking to finally address GAO's
recommendations but also steps BIE is taking to address the far more
important problem, which is way too few students graduating with the
skills and knowledge they need to succeed.
______
Chairman Sablan. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Owens. I'd
now like to recognize the Chairwoman of the Subcommittee House
Natural Resources Subcommittee for the Indigenous People of the
United States, Ms. Leger Fernandez of New Mexico, for the
purpose of making an opening statement. Ms. Leger Fernandez,
please, thank you.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, so much, Chair Sablan, and
thank you, Ranking Member Owens, and also I would like to thank
SCIP Ranking Member Representative Obernolte. We are all
gathered here with the interest of education for our Native
American children, our Alaskan Native and Hawaiian Native
children.
I can tell you I visit with Native American leaders across
my district and across this country regularly. (Inaudible)
Chairman Sablan. Ms. Leger Fernandez, hold on.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Quality education that also is rooted
in cultural values and the linguistics of the tribe. Last
month--am I breaking up?
Chairman Sablan. Yes, actually yes.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Last month I heard from one tribe in
Washington that worked with schools, tribal students are now
taught tribal history. And (inaudible)
Chairman Sablan. I think we've lost Ms. Leger Fernandez. I
think we've lost her. Can staff give me an update please?
Mr. Vassar. Chairman Sablan, I still have Representative
Leger Fernandez's connection to the platform, however, I think
it is bouncing between bandwidth for video and audio. I have
visual confirmation that Ms. Leger Fernandez is back on the
platform however, I do not have audio confirmation, Chair.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Is the connection cutting out, Mr.
Chair?
Mr. Vassar. Yes. Chair Leger Fernandez.
Chairman Sablan. Yes.
Mr. Vassar. Your connection is breaking up and the video.
Chairman Sablan. OK. Here's what we'll do. What we will do
is Mr. Obernolte and come back to Ms. Leger Fernandez please.
Mr. Obernolte sir, for your opening statement, thank you.
Mr. Obernolte. Thank you, very much Chairman Sablan and
Chair Leger Fernandez. I appreciate your rescheduling today's
hearing, a very important hearing. It's disappointing I know
for all of us back in May that we had some technical challenges
that required it to be rescheduled, and unfortunately it looks
like we're having some technical challenges with the hearing
today.
You know this is an oversight hearing. One of the reasons
why it's so important to all of us, but also I think
underscores the importance of trying to get back to a schedule
of in-person hearings. These technical challenges I think are
frustrating for not just us, but for our witnesses, and for the
Members of the public that watch.
And I think we're more effective as an oversight body when
we're sitting in the same room. We can see either other, we can
see the witnesses, they can see us, and so I'm hopeful that we
can get back to a schedule of in-person hearings.
So, today obviously we're examining the policies and
priorities of the Bureau of Indian Education. This is something
that is of critical importance to everyone on this Committee,
charged as they are with providing educational support to the
more than 30,000 students who are located in or near Indian
reservations.
Now I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for including the
Government Accountability Office in this hearing. Originally, I
think they were not scheduled to be included, and their input
is going to be critical to our deliberations here. As we have
heard, the GAO in 2017 included the BIE on its biannual high-
risk list of Federal programs that are especially vulnerable to
waste, fraud, and abuse, and or mismanagement, or the need for
transformative change.
Obviously, given some of those statistics that we've seen
quoted, this designation by the GAO was not a surprise to those
at Indian country. The BIE has just been facing challenge after
challenge spanning back decades. So, to be clear, we in
Congress have an oversight responsibility toward agencies like
the BIE. That oversight does not have to be adversarial. I
think that we're all on the same team here. We want to empower
the BIE to do their mission and improve the quality of the
education that we're providing to these students.
But there are still challenges that remain. Of those 39
open GAO recommendations in 2017, as of the latest report in
January of last year, there are over a dozen of them still
outstanding, so obviously we have some work that still remains
ahead of us, so I'm hopeful that the inclusion of the GAO in
this hearing will enable us to work with the BIE, and to try
and solve some of these problems.
Before I yield back, I want to talk about how encouraging
it is to see the bipartisan nature, the cooperation on this
Committee, especially with respect to the GAO, and I'm hopeful
that continues. I think the inclusion of other outside
witnesses is very helpful to the business of the Committee, and
it certainly improves our transparency, and I think it improves
our ability to enhance accountability throughout the entire
process.
So, I'm hoping that we're going to continue to be able to
work together on a bipartisan basis in that way. I'm looking
forward to the hearing, and Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Obernolte follows:]
Statement of Hon. Jay Obernolte, Acting Ranking Member, Subcommittee
for
Indigenous Peoples of the United States
Thank you, Chairman Sablan.
I appreciate you rescheduling today's hearing. I think the
technical challenges we had back in May underscore the need to get back
to having all of our hearings in-person.
Today, we will be examining the policies and priorities of the
Bureau of Indian Education. The Bureau of Indian Education (BIE), which
is housed under the Department of the Interior's Office of Indian
Affairs, is charged with providing education support to more than
30,000 students located on or near Indian reservations.
In 2017, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) included the
BIE on its biennial high-risk list of Federal programs that are
especially vulnerable to waste, fraud, abuse, and mismanagement, or
that need transformative change. For many, this designation by the GAO
was nothing new to those in Indian Country. The simple fact is that the
BIE and its school system has been plagued by challenge after
challenge, spanning decades. These challenges include inadequate
facilities, a myriad of bureaucratic red tape, inability to recruit and
retain qualified teachers, inability to consistently use accountability
measures to ensure school construction project be completed on
time, within budget and meet schools' needs, as well as many other
challenges. At the time of the high-risk designation in 2017, there
were 39 open GAO recommendations. Four years later, when GAO released
its most recent report in 2021, there were still nearly a dozen open
recommendations.
While the bureau has made progress, much work remains.
The COVID-19 pandemic has and continues to have a profound impact
on native communities. Broadly, school enrollment in many states has
been down due to the pandemic and I am curious to know how or if this
has impacted native student populations as well.
With $1.5 billion being allocated to the BIE to address challenges
associated with the pandemic, I hope the agency ensures transparency
and accountability. We must ensure we are upholding our responsibility
to provide adequate education to native students. And with the BIE
annually receiving more than a billion dollars annually, we must ensure
that native students are excelling in classroom.
Before I yield back, I do appreciate the majority inviting the GAO
in addition to the Director of the BIE to testify today as the GAO was
not invited to the originally scheduled hearing. I think this is a
positive step in trying to conduct proper oversight. I do however think
we could further benefit from the inclusion of other outside witnesses.
Having a more robust panel sends a clear message that Congress is
serious about attempting to address the myriad shortcomings of the BIE.
We should discuss the real-world impacts of the BIE's failings and
practical solutions to change the status quo for the benefit of Indian
students across the Nation.
It begs the question as to whether the current system is in the
best interests of native students, or we should be looking into more
transformative changes.
It continues to be troubling to me that it has taken the agency so
long to implement what I find to be basic recommendations. I'd like to
work with both Chairs of the subcommittees to conduct continued
oversight of Indian education system moving forward.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
______
Chairman Sablan. Thank you, Mr. Obernolte. We'll circle
back to the Chairwoman of the Subcommittee for Indigenous
People, Ms. Leger Fernandez please, your opening statements
again, thank you.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you so very much, and I think I
might be breaking up again. This is an issue for anyone in
Indian country. We don't really have great broadband. Can you
hear me now?
Chairman Sablan. I'm sorry. I think it says your bandwidth
is low, so you're coming in and out. Yes, you're coming in and
out and then your photo is, you're freezing.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Yes. If you can hear me, I mean the
issue is we do not have Wi-Fi where I'm at. I'm actually in
(inaudible) Indian country.
Chairman Sablan. Yes I am truly, truly sorry. I do not want
to do this at all, but like Mr. Obernolte mentioned, we already
canceled, postponed this hearing once. I'm going to ask that
Ms. Leger Fernandez's opening statements be included in the
record, so we can move on and just hear from our witnesses. So,
Ms. Leger Fernandez can you please make a statement asking that
your statement be inserted into the record. I'd appreciate
that.
And now I think we have lost Teresa.
Mr. Obernolte. Mr. Chair would it suffice for me to make a
request for unanimous consent that the Chair's statement be
included in the record?
Chairman Sablan. Yes, that would be nice. Thank you. And is
that a statement Mr. Obernolte?
Mr. Obernolte. Yes. I request unanimous consent that
Chairwoman Leger Fernandez's opening statement be included in
the written record for this hearing.
Chairman Sablan. All right. And without objection so
ordered, thank you.
[The prepared statement of Chair Leger Fernandez follows:]
Statement of Hon. Leger Fernandez, Chair, Subcommittee for Indigenous
Peoples of the United States
Thank you to Chair Sablan and Ranking Member Owens, thank you to
SCIP Ranking Member Rep. Obernolte and to the full committee Chairs
Grijalva and Scott for holding this joint oversight hearing on the
Bureau of Indian Education.
When I visit with Native American leaders across my district and
this country, we talk about lots of issues. But without fail, tribal
leaders will bring up education and the importance of delivering
quality education that also promotes the cultural values and
linguistics of the Tribe.
Last month, I heard from one Tribe in Washington that has worked
with the schools so that the tribal students are now taught tribal
history and their tribal language. The Tribe had one living speaker of
their language before this effort. Now the tribe has successfully
rescued their language from extinction.
Earlier this year, we held a hearing on Rep. Sharice Davids' bill,
the Truth and Healing Commission on Indian Boarding School Policies in
the United States Act. The tragic origin of Federal Indian education a
century ago was to destroy the Indian in the children--to commit
cultural genocide. Today, we see the reverse. Our Bureau of Indian
Education is committed to the opposite--to foster a quality education
that values and builds on the cultural and linguistic strengths of our
Native students.
Currently, there are 183 BIE-funded schools on 64 reservations
across 23 states. BIE schools support approximately 46,000 American
Indian and Alaska Native students.
Unfortunately, like many Federal programs for Tribes, the BIE has
been subject to decades of chronic underfunding.
Although funding is a concern for many public schools across the
country, the Federal underfunding of BIE has had drastic results in
educational, health, and safety outcomes among its students.
On the House Committee on Natural Resources' Subcommittee for
Indigenous Peoples of the United States, we have held multiple
oversight hearings on these topics including: the State of BIE school
facilities, the Department of the Interior's COVID-19 return-to-learn
plans, and as noted the history of Federal Indian boarding schools.
From these proceedings, it's clear that Congress must uphold its
obligations to Indian Country by fully funding BIE and addressing many
of the agency's safety and infrastructure concerns, especially those
relating to facilities and technology.
Supporting BIE is a priority for the Subcommittee. We know the
importance of providing comprehensive education to American Indians and
Alaska Natives. We also know that this type of education is unique and
the experiences of American Indian and Alaska Native students can vary
among each Tribe and location.
I hosted a Native Education roundtable in my district earlier this
year. We listened to education leaders discuss innovative approaches to
including education as an integral component of a thriving community--
not isolated from the community but a pillar in the community. For
example, the Pueblo of Jemez discussed their Coordinated School Health
Model that connects their schools to community and tribal programs.
But I've also heard of the difficulties many Tribes have in getting
their voices heard at BIE schools. Our Bureau-funded schools face
numerous struggles from staffing shortages to road access locations
where school buses cannot travel over unsafe bridges.
That is why I'm pleased to be at this hearing today, as it
represents a joint-Committee approach to better support this important
Bureau.
I will also share that in the Education and Labor Committee markup
of the Reopen and Rebuild America's Schools Act, I pressed for
increasing the set aside for BIE schools, which has historically been
0.5 percent. This percentage freezes in a historic underfunding--and it
doesn't reflect the $4.5 billion need to rebuild the BIE schools in
poor condition.
The Federal Government alone is responsible for maintaining and
building the schools that serve most of our indigenous children. These
children live in some of the areas of highest poverty.
Over the last 30 years, child poverty among Native Americans has
consistently exceeded 40 percent. I've spent considerable time in BIE
schools working to replace buildings that were condemnable--sitting on
priority lists for years and decades. I've witnessed the leaking roofs,
falling plaster, broken bathrooms.
While these children live in areas of poverty, they and their
families have high aspirations for their future. They are rich in
culture and dreams. Our job is to remove obstacles to their ability to
achieve their goals and aspirations. Improving educational
opportunities and infrastructure is key to that. I want to thank
Chairman Scott for his guidance in addressing the disparity and his
willingness to work to increase the BIE school construction percentage.
I look forward to hearing from Director Dearman and learning how we
can help BIE better achieve its educational mission.
______
Chairman Sablan. So, let's now proceed to our witnesses.
And without objection all Members, all other Members who wish
to insert written statements into the record may do so by
submitting them to the Committee Clerk and electronically in
Microsoft Word format by 5 p.m. on July 12.
I will now introduce the witnesses. Mr. Tony L. Dearman is
the Director of the Bureau of Indian Education, a role he has
held since November 2016. Mr. Dearman is a Member of the
Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma and brings more than two decades of
experience as a teacher, coach, and administrator in BIE
operated and tribally controlled schools, including
implementing much needed reforms.
He began his career in education in 1993 at Sequoia High
School, a boarding school operated by the Cherokee Nation of
Oklahoma.
Ms. Beth Sirois has been an Assistant Director in GAO's
Educational Workforce and Income Security team since 2011. For
the past 10 years she's worked on issues regarding the Bureau
of Indian Education Schools producing numerous reports on
topics ranging from school health and safety to special
education services.
She has also written several studies on higher education
and the Department of Education K-12programs. Before joining
the Education and Workforce team, she worked for 7 years as an
advisor in GAO's Office of congressional Relations.
We appreciate the witnesses for participating today and
look forward to your testimony. Let me remind you that we have
read your written statements, and they will appear in full in
the hearing record. Pursuant to Committee Rule 8(b) and
Committee practice, you are asked to limit your oral
presentation to a five-minute summary of your written
statement.
Before you begin your testimony, please remember to unmute
your microphone. During the testimony staff will be keeping
track of time, and a light will blink when time is up. Please
be attentive to the time. Wrap up when time is over and re-mute
your microphone.
If you experience technical difficulties during your
testimony, or later in the hearing, you should stay connected
on the platform, and make sure you are muted, and unmute your
phone to immediately call the Committee's IT director, whose
number was provided to you in advance. After the witnesses make
their presentations, we will move to Member questions.
When answering a question please remember to unmute your
microphone. The witnesses are aware of their responsibility to
provide accurate information to the Subcommittees, and
therefore we will proceed with your testimony. Assistant
Director Sirois, please you have five minutes, thank you very
much.
STATEMENT OF MS. BETH SIROIS, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, U.S.
GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE
Ms. Sirois. Chairman Sablan, Chair Leger Fernandez,
Republican leader Owens, acting Ranking Member Obernolte, and
Members of the Subcommittees. Thank you for inviting me here
today to discuss the Bureau of Indian Education and GAO's high-
risk list.
In 2017, we designated improving Federal management of
programs that serve tribes and their Members as a high-risk
area. One component of this area is BIE's administration of
schools. We included this area due to the agency's significant
management weaknesses in supporting and overseeing schools
serving American Indian students.
Our high-risk program is intended to help inform
congressional oversight and improve government performance.
Since 1990, 67 different areas have appeared on our high-risk
list. Of these, 27 areas have been removed. On average, these
areas have been on the list for 9 years.
An agency must meet five criteria to be removed from our
high-risk list. The criteria focus on leadership commitment,
agency capacity, action plans, monitoring and the agency
demonstrating progress to fix the high-risk area. We have made
32 high-risk recommendations related to BIE's administration of
schools dating back to 2013.
These recommendations involve a variety of management
issues, such as the need to improve school health and safety,
fiscal oversight, school construction, provision of special
education services, and distance learning. Currently ten of
these recommendations remain open, including one priority
recommendation on BIE's provision of special education
services.
However, implementing our recommendations alone will not
result in BIE's automatic removal from the high-risk list
because the conditions that led to the recommendations are
indicative of systemic management grievances.
Since we've last reported on BIE's high-risk status in
March 2021, the agency has fully met two of the five criteria
for removing its high-risk designation. Specifically the
criteria for leadership commitment and having action plans in
place. Senior leaders have demonstrated a strong commitment to
address the management weaknesses we have identified and
provided continued support to fix those issues.
Also, BIE has developed corrective action plans to address
a range of management challenges, including a long-term capital
asset plan to guide its school construction projects. In
addition, the BIE has developed a plan to build schools'
capacity to address building safety issues, including at its
dormitories. BIE needs to do more work to fully address its
remaining management weaknesses.
As in our March 2021 high-risk report, we continue to rate
BIE as partially meeting the remaining three high-risk
criteria: agency capacity, monitoring, and demonstrated
progress. In terms of capacity, the agency continues to have an
overall staff vacancy rate of about 33 percent, the same rate
we reported in 2021. Further, BIE's school operations division,
which provides vital administrative support to schools,
currently has a vacancy rate of about 45 percent. We believe
these staff vacancies continue to hamper BIE's ability to
support and oversee schools.
BIE has also struggled with monitoring. For example, it has
not fully implemented our 2020 recommendation to conduct risk
space monitoring of schools' use of Federal special education
funds. Furthermore, BIE needs to demonstrate additional
progress by implementing our 10 open recommendations and
improving overall management of its schools.
In conclusion, we believe that BIE has demonstrated
leadership commitment and an ability to formulate action plans
to address key management weaknesses. However, it will need
sustained focus and concerted actions to fully meet the three
remaining criteria for removal from our high-risk list,
especially in the area of increasing staff capacity.
This concludes my statement. I would be happy to respond to
any questions. Thank you.
[The Statement of Ms. Sirois follows:]
Prepared Statement of Beth Sirois
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Sablan. Thank you, Ms. Sirois. Director Dearman,
welcome back to us again, thank you for coming back since we
had postponed our last hearing for some technical issues.
Welcome back and please you have five minutes for your opening
statement. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF TONY DEARMAN, DIRECTOR, BUREAU OF INDIAN EDUCATION
Mr. Dearman. Thank you. Good morning, Chairman Sablan,
Chairwoman Leger Fernandez, Ranking Members Owens and
Obernolte, and Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for
inviting me to appear on behalf of the Bureau of Indian
Education.
Chairman Sablan. Yes. Director, could you turn your video
on?
Mr. Dearman. I apologize. OK. Done. Thank you for inviting
me to appear today on behalf of the Bureau of Indian Education.
I am Tony Dearman, a citizen of the Cherokee Nation, and
Director of the BIE. Today I am joining you from one of our
off-reservation residential schools, Sherman Indian High
School.
I'm onsite for a Principal Leadership Academy. It is an
innovative way that we're reaching our school leadership teams
to discuss important issues facing our students and sharing
best practices to accelerate learning outcomes. I've been an
educator for 29 years, as a science teacher, coach, principal,
and administrator.
I've invested my entire career in Indian education. For 16
years for the BIE at both the school and administrative levels.
The BIE serves approximately 47,000 Native students from 574
federally recognized tribes. I apologize Chairman, my video
keeps timing out.
BIE serves approximately 47,000 Native students from 574
federally recognized tribes. We educate our students in 183
elementary and secondary schools and dormitories. Of these
schools, the BIE directly operates 54, while the tribal
governments operate the remaining 129 schools through grants or
contracts.
The BIE works to respond to the challenges we face in
providing high-quality education for BIE students across 23
states. As we work to include local service delivery, the BIE
focuses its attention on using our resources to create the most
impact for our students.
We are working to achieve the agency's full mission and
increase accountability throughout the BIE. Five years ago, in
February 2017, the GAO listed the BIE in its high-risk report.
At that time the GAO highlighted a number of challenges that
limited the BIE from achieving its mission to serve Native
students.
A few of these include school safety, construction, and the
obstacles we face in recruiting and retaining a highly skilled
workforce. As noted by the GAO in its most recent high-risk
report, the BIE has made progress. To date, the BIE has
successfully addressed and closed a total of 23 of 39 GAO
recommendations contained in ten separate reports, including 22
of 32 recommendations identified as being high-risk.
Although challenges remain, I am certain that we will
continue to make significant progress toward all the GAO's
remaining recommendations. BIE is actively working on
implementing the GAO's recommendations while we navigate the
unprecedented impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on our students
and Native communities.
In the face of new and evolving challenges, BIE pivots how
services are delivered to Bureau operated schools, and how
support is provided to our tribal controlled schools.
Throughout the last 2 years the BIE team focused on providing
services essential to the health and well-being of students and
their families. Achieving each of these goals requires creative
solutions.
For example, many BIE student homes do not have
electricity, much less access to adequate internet suitable to
shift to online learning. During the summer of 2020, the BIE
initiated and executed a comprehensive school reopening plan.
The Bureau-wide effort resulted in successfully procuring and
issuing more than 10,000 laptops and 7,000 Wi-Fi devices to
students.
Throughout our response, the BIE team established and
maintained two-way communication with BIE partners, tribal
leaders, and stakeholders. This is both through formal and
informal paths, including a series of consultations, listening
sessions, and other forms of strategic direction. The BIE also
established collective working relationships with the Centers
for Disease Control (CDC), Indian Health Service, and White
House leadership.
Overall, the BIE received approximately 1.5 billion dollars
in COVID-19 assistance. These funds have served a critical role
in BIE's ability to address the challenges of providing
educational services in the COVID-19 environment. For example,
the BIE also used COVID-19 supplementary funds to establish its
first ever educational learning management system.
This effort empowers the BIE to invest in IT
infrastructure. We've used this funding also to provide
professional development for teachers and school leaders. The
BIE is also using COVID-19 supplementary funding to support the
physical and mental health of our students that is in addition
to procuring and distributing millions of masks, and hundreds
of thousands of COVID-19 testing kids.
Thank you for your public service. I am wanting to answer
any questions you may have.
[The Statement of Mr. Dearman follows:]
Prepared Statement of Tony Dearman
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Sablan. OK, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Dearman. I
just would like to take note of the difficulties that we are
having with Chairman Teresa Leger Fernandez staying on the
hearing, and a little bit also with Mr. Dearman, shows some of
the connectivity issues we may be having in parts of the
Nation. Although I'm happy to say that I am having no such
issues where it's 1:30 in the morning here tomorrow, and where
Ms. Radewagen is at 4:30 in the morning yesterday, so everyone,
we're getting there a little at a time, but we're certainly
getting there, and we'd like to have no connectivity issues
with our Bureau of Indian Education students as well.
Under Committee Rule 9(a) we will now question the
witnesses under the five-minute rule. After the Chairs and
Ranking Members, I will recognize Members of both Subcommittees
in the order of their seniority on the full Committee. Again,
to ensure that the Member's five-minute rule is adhered to,
staff will be keeping track of time, and a blinking light will
show when time has expired.
Please be attentive to the time, wrap up when your time is
over, and re-mute your microphone. As Chair, I now recognize
myself for five minutes.
Director Dearman, In it's 2017 report, the Government
Accountability Office has said it was adding the Bureau of
Indian Education's Administration on Oversight to its high-risk
list because of evidence of unsafe school conditions,
inconsistent school health and safety inspection, lack of
workplace planning, and poor oversight of school spending of
Federal funds.
In the subsequent reports, GAO also cited other high-risk
issues such as the BIE's oversight of special education at
schools. So, the costs that the BIE has addressed, or is
addressing these high-risk issues, are there high-risk areas
that continue to be a challenge for the BIE to address?
How can we as legislators support your efforts to address
areas of high-risk, and what actions have been taken to provide
leadership and support to address GAO's recommendations under
BIE's high-risk status? If you can answer all of that I would
appreciate it.
Mr. Dearman. Well, thank you, Chairman. Thank you for the
question. I became Director in November 2016, and we were
placed on the high-risk list in 2017. And we gathered our
leadership team immediately to address the GAO recommendations.
And we will continue to address the GAO recommendations.
As we have stated in our opening remarks, we have closed 23
of the 39 recommendations, and we feel comfortable and
confident that we will continue to work hard to close the
remaining recommendations. We have a lot of the recommendations
in, getting close to packaging, closer packages for some of the
recommendations, and we continue to work collaboratively with
GAO.
GAO has been a great partner, and as I have stated in
previous hearings Chairman, we will continue to work with GAO
and use their recommendations as a road map to continue to make
BIE better. We need the assistance. We feel like we totally
agree with what GAO is saying, and we are proud of our
leadership team at BIE because we are the most consistent
leadership team that the BIE has had in the history of the
organization.
And we will continue to do our part to implement the
recommendations Chairman.
Chairman Sablan. Thank you for that. Because in my life I
am aware of educational jurisdictions that are in high-risks,
some of whom have been in high-risk for 20 years, and I
understand maybe 30 years, and it's costing the local
jurisdictions a lot of money, so thank you for that, Mr.
Dearman.
Director Sirois, based on the recommendations that are
still open, do you believe will have the greatest overall
impact if addressed. What do you believe is a reasonable time
for BIE to implement these recommendations?
Ms. Sirois. Yes. We have one priority recommendation that
is still open, which is for BIE to improve its delivery of
special education and related services, specifically we
recommended in 2020 that BIE develop a plan to make up missed
special education services on a consistent basis across all BIE
schools.
We found in our report that BIE was not providing
consistent services when their providers were out sick or
absent for other reasons. That is the most important of the
recommendations we feel for BIE to implement.
Chairman Sablan. And so, what do you believe BIE will have
to take immediately to be able to achieve this target, and how
has GAO been working with BIE to help achieve this timeline?
Ms. Sirois. As Director Dearman testified, we do have very
collaborative relationships with BIE, and with Mr. Dearman and
his leadership team. They have reported they're working to
address our ten open recommendations, including the one I just
mentioned, to develop a consistent policy to make up missed
special education services.
Director Dearman would probably have a better idea of the
timeframe for their implementation of these outstanding
recommendations.
Chairman Sablan. Thank you very much. I now turn to Ranking
Member Owens for his five minutes of questioning. Mr. Owens,
please.
Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Dearman,
your testimony provided a good update on BIE progress and
addressing the recommendations made by GAO over the last
several years. You also discussed the challenges BIE schools
have faced under COVID. What I didn't see any testimony on, was
in your discussion about the low academic performance of BIE
schools.
Are there steps that BIE is taking to increase the learning
outcomes of students in any of these schools? Mr. Dearman?
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congressman. We have a lot of first
ever's in the Bureau of Indian Education, and we have our first
ever own standards, assessment, and accountability system that
we've been working to implement. This past year is the first
year that we've actually been able to collect the school data,
and we'll be collecting school data from the assessments.
Our plan is, Congressman, is to look at the data and make
sure that we're filling in the gaps, providing resources based
on data to fill in the learning gaps that we've experienced
through the learning loss, through the pandemic. I can tell you
this Congressman, it is hard for me and my leadership team to
hear the opening statements with the statistics that's been
read, and that's been the history of BIE.
But I am proud to say that we are changing that, and we
felt we went out for consultation, we listened to our
stakeholders, our tribal leaders, and it was important that we
have our own standards, assessment, and accountability system
so that we can have our own data, and have control of that data
versus having to work with the multiple states that our schools
reside in.
As I testified Congressman, we have schools in 23 different
states who are having to try to work with 23 states in
collecting that testing data. So that is the plan moving
forward. But also with our new standards, assessment, and
accountability system we will have benchmarks, so we can start
measuring where our students are, and what we need to do to
make sure that we address the new learning gaps, or any
deficiencies that may be identified through the assessments.
Mr. Owens. Thank you. I want to pose my next question to
one of the GAO reports you highlight in your testimony. In May
2020, GAO released a report highlighting BIE's failure to
provide special education student services they were entitled
to under Federal law. That was a report that was requested by
Republicans on the Education and Labor Committee.
From your testimony it appears that in the last, in the 2-
years since the report was released, none of the GAO's
recommendations have been fully addressed. You mentioned a new
special education policy handbook that are forthcoming that you
anticipate will fully address GAO's recommendations.
Can you tell us more about what will be the policy and
handbook, and how they will address GAO's recommendations?
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congressman. Our anticipation, we
anticipate having the policy and handbook this summer, and
ready to go out to our schools and start training. What we will
have in our policy is guidance and expectations, and special
education as far as servicing our students.
The one key thing that the GAO did recommend that we made
sure that we ensure is in the policy in the handbook is
compensatory services because we have to make sure that we--
during the pandemic we had to shift to a virtual setting, and
sometimes we had to shift to packets. And making sure that we
are meeting the needs of our students that have individual
education plans is critical.
Since my tenure as a director, Congressman, the one thing
that we have experienced in the Bureau of Indian Education is
the lack of policies. And it's important that we put policies
in place so that we can make sure that regardless of who is in
the leadership position, our schools have guidance that they
can follow, and it's written to where they can pull that off
the shelf and make sure that our special education services are
provided.
Mr. Owens. OK. I have just less than a minute here. Ms.
Sirois, I want to ask you about the same report. How would you
describe BIE's progress in implementing the recommendations
from that report?
Ms. Sirois. As I mentioned in my statement, BIE has not
closed any of the seven recommendations we had in our May 2020
special education report. As Mr. Dearman testified, BIE told us
they are working hard to develop policies to implement our
recommendations. One thing that BIE did do shortly after our
report was issued though, was they rescinded the policy at
their largest division of tribally controlled schools not to
inspect 100 percent of documents on provision of special
education services to students.
At the time we did our work, the assistant, the Office of
Tribally Controlled Schools was only looking at I believe it
was a third of all students' special education service
delivery. So that's one positive thing that BIE did very
shortly after our report was issued.
Mr. Owens. OK. Thank you. Thank you so much, and Chairman I
yield my time back.
Chairman Sablan. Thank you, Mr. Owens. Now we welcome back
of course the always hard-working and wonderful person to work
with, the Chairwoman, Teresa Leger Fernandez. You have five
minutes of questioning please. Thank you.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, so much, Mr. Chairman, and
to everybody on this hearing. My apologies. I was actually--I
am actually in a Navajo meeting on health issues, and so as we
all know we have a major issue without sufficient internet, and
I had to come back into Gallup.
So I wanted to address some of the issues with regards to
underfunding. You know we did in the markup on the bill with
regards to school construction, talk about the manner in which
school construction is incredibly underfunded, and we look
forward to working with the Chairman and the Committee to
increase the percentage that goes toward the Native American
schools for construction.
But I want to talk a little bit about the concept that we
spend more on BIE students than others. From the data that I'm
aware of, it's actually the opposite. And Assistant Director
Sirois, as you know we have amazing schools like the Santa Fe
Indian School of New Mexico, my congressional district, which
has tremendous success in student outcomes.
It's also Pueblo-governed. But we know that there are so
many other schools that are not as successful, and that they're
significantly underfunded. I saw that the Department of
Education reported that AI/AN students are funded at 6,048,
less than half of actual funds expended to educate non-Indian
schools at 12,500 for Fiscal Year 2022.
So how would the President's proposed 5-million-dollar
funding increase for BIE in Fiscal Year 2023 help address the
issues of inadequate funding of tribally controlled schools?
Ms. Sirois. This is a question for me?
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Yes, or whichever.
Ms. Sirois. I'll defer to Director Dearman.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. OK.
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congresswoman for the question. You
know we are definitely pleased with the President's 1923
proposed budget because we do have increases. You know I'll
throw some figures at you that will definitely show you the
need of our system. In facilities alone, our budget is 420
million, and we have a deferred maintenance of approximately
915 million.
We have 60 schools that are listed in poor condition that
have not been funded yet, as of now, and with that we're
looking at with approximately 5.1 billion to replace the
schools in poor condition. But again, we are pleased that we
have an increase in the President's proposed budget, and we
look forward to collaboratively, you know, to working closely
with this Committee and other committees in supporting our
schools.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Also, the BIE educators, and being
able to retain and keep them when they are paid higher you
know. New Mexico, I think we just put more money into our
schools. We recently did have a salary increase of $10,000.00
per teacher.
How do you--what strategies are you going to use, and what
do we maybe need to do at the Federal level to make sure that
when states, surrounding states, increase wages for their
teachers, there isn't you know a transfer of talent out of our
BIE and tribally controlled schools?
Mr. Dearman. Great question and thank you so much. Because
that has been a focus of ours in the Bureau of Indian
Education. Currently Congresswoman, we have two states that
they hire at more than the Bureau of Indian Education pays, and
that is Oregon and California. We are aware that New Mexico
increased their pay rates.
And so what we have done in our Bureau operated schools is
we have also increased ours to make sure that we are very
competitive. One of the things that we've done also in the
Bureau of Indian Education is coming in as a leadership team we
realized immediately that we had higher credentials or
qualifications, and it was more difficult for teachers and
applicants to qualify for teacher positions in BIE.
So, we adjusted to match the State qualifications of the 23
states that our schools reside in, which really helped us
increase our applicant pool, and make us more competitive. We
have also been creative in making sure that we are offering
incentives and providing trainings to our school leadership so
that they can understand what funding pots that they have
available to recruit and retain teachers.
As far as staff that assist using the technical--provides
technical assistance to our schools, we've been created in that
way as well by actually looking at remote positions. Because in
BIE, the one thing that we have found out is that we can
recruit locally and have people that know our culture, our
traditions, know our communities, we have less turnover.
And it really impacts, has a positive impact on our
students and our communities. So, what we've started doing too
is when we can we classify a position that could be advertised
remote, guess what? We don't have to pull individuals from our
tribal communities and have them report to an office somewhere
that they don't want to live; we can actually set them up in
their communities, and have them as a remote employee, and
actually bring in people that know our communities, our
cultures, our traditions, and know our tribes.
And we're excited about that, and we look forward to that.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you. We will need to also make
sure we get broadband to them, so they can actually work in
Indian country as we just discovered. I have some more
questions, and we will submit those in writing, especially in
my opening statement I had really emphasized the importance of
language, and being able to have the fluency in language, and
including that in the school curriculum. I will submit those in
writing. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you ever so much for
your patience.
Chairman Sablan. No, thank you. Thank you, and you would
think that connectivity will become a problem to where Amata
and I are at the end of the world where it drops off, but we're
going fine, so I hope things will get better for all of us,
especially for our Native American schools. Now Mr. Obernolte
of California, sir, thank you also for your patience. You have
five minutes.
Mr. Obernolte. Thank you, Chairman Sablan, and thank you to
our witnesses. Mr. Dearman, I would like to direct a couple
questions to you. Thank you very much for being here. It was
very comforting to me to hear you talk about the transparency
at the department, and the fact that you agree with the
recommendations that were made by the GAO, and that you're
working diligently to fix them.
You were having a conversation with Chairman Sablan about
the status of those remaining recommendations. Can you talk
about the timeline on which the department proposes to have
those remaining recommendations implemented?
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congressman. What we can do is
actually go back and break them down, because there are ten
separate reports. And I think it would be--I would appreciate
if we could respond in writing with each recommendation with an
estimated timeline.
Mr. Obernolte. OK. Well, that would be great. I'll tell you
what. We'll talk about what is the recommendation with the
furthest time horizon, and what is that horizon?
Mr. Dearman. There is one that we have you know, again,
understanding how unique the Bureau of Indian Education is, we
have to work with other departments across Indian Affairs, and
there is one that we've been working on with Indian Affairs
that's pretty much out of our control, but we are working hand
in hand to make sure that we assist, and I believe that is
recommendation 17-247. 447, 447. So there is a recommendation
there.
That one is the one that it would be hard to list a
timeline, but we will definitely continue working with the
Division of Facility Management and Construction around getting
that implemented.
Mr. Obernolte. OK. So, one of the disturbing pieces of
testimony, and from my point of view that we've heard today is
when GAO has said that merely crossing off all of these
recommendations off the list will not be necessarily sufficient
to remove the department from the risk, the high-risk list.
And specifically, the GAO is saying two things. First of
all, that the staff vacancy rates are alarmingly high, which
the statistics they included, I would certainly agree with
them. Also, though they said that the BIE is failing in some of
their risk management responsibilities. So, I'd like to talk
about those two items because obviously everyone here on the
Committee would like to see the BIE get off of the high-risk
list.
The staff vacancy rate, you were just having a discussion
with Chairman Leger Fernandez about this. You know if you're
paying competitive salaries, and you've got a great applicant
pool, and you're implementing remote work, why are these
vacancy rates so high, and what is the department's plan to
bring them down?
Mr. Dearman. Great question. This is like you said
Congressman, this has definitely been a focus of the Bureau of
Indian Education. In addressing, you know, we have different
levels. We have what we call a Title V category, which there
are employees that are here to provide technical assistance to
the school.
And currently we have a 68 percent of our positions are
filled. 32 percent are vacant. At the school level we have 91
percent of our positions totally filled with 9 percent vacant.
As a total, and BIE as a whole with approximately 3,500
employees, we are at 89 percent filled, with an 11 percent
vacancy rate.
We hire based off of Indian preference, and we find that
I'll give you an example of that Congressman. We just closed a
position where we had close to 70 applicants. By the time we
apply the Indian preference to the applicant pool, we were down
to seven. By the time we go in and we look at the
qualifications to meet the qualifications of that position, we
were at one. So when we hire Indian preference, we have to do a
better job of getting out in the communities, getting to job
fairs, to show our tribes that there is a great opportunity to
come into the Bureau of Indian Education as well as other
departments within Indian Affairs.
I really feel like Congressman, we have increased this. We
have actually hired two talent recruiters within the Bureau of
Indian Education to actually go out and recruit from the
colleges and universities that have teacher ed programs, but
more importantly as I stated earlier, getting community Members
that know our communities, to look at BIE as an opportunity to
come in for employment.
Because we want, and we need our tribal leaders at the
table with recommendations of how we can get better, but also
bringing in some of our community Members, our tribal Members,
in our school system. So we have--we've been creative in
addressing our vacancies, and we'll continue to be creative in
addressing our vacancies.
Mr. Obernolte. OK. Well, thank you. That's going to be
critical to getting off the GAO's list, high-risk list. I see
I'm out of time here. I've got some other questions related to
risk management that I'll submit in writing, but as I close let
me just make a point that we see the No. 1 statistic that bears
on the job that the BIE is doing is that of student
achievement.
And it's been troubling to me that some of the statistics
that the BIE have been prioritizing and collecting, you were
talking about collecting data, are not the ones related to
student achievement, but ones relating to other things like
absences.
So we would really like to see you focus on student
achievement. I'll submit the other questions in writing, but
thank you for your testimony. Mr. Chair, I yield back.
Chairman Sablan. Thank you, Mr. Obernolte. I now would like
to recognize Mr. Soto. Sir, you will have five minutes please.
Mr. Soto. Thank you, Chairman. We're here today because we
need to make sure we're continuing to conduct our oversight
duties and maintain confidence for the American people,
particularly our Native American families. I do want to
announce on the onset, we've come a long way.
Those of us who sat through excruciating hearings about
abuse in the past in education institutions, and in health
institutions that were run by the Federal Government long ago,
know how terrible a sin the country has committed, and even
going back to historic times early on, with the Nation.
But our job here is to right injustices--historic
injustices and to make sure that we never go backward again. So
when we see concerns about the Government Accountability Office
discussing that the Bureau of Indian Education is listed as a
high-risk agency, when there are concerns about COVID-19
pandemic funds, which happen to local governments too by the
way.
And oversight of COVID relief funds, addressing learning
loss, mental health issues, staff shortages, students with
disabilities, infrastructure. It's important for us to continue
to conduct our oversight duties. This is about families. This
is about children in Native American tribal sovereign lands.
Director Dearman, in a 2017 report, the GAO found that 19
of the Bureau's school construction projects were completed
between 2003 to 2016, and took three or four more years than
expected, and were about 20 percent over budget. This spanned
several administrations.
We understand that four new campuses opened to its students
in 2021, and another three are to be completed in 2022, with
more planned. What is the current State of school facilities,
and the status replacing those in poor condition?
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congressman. This is something that
I feel like in 2006, when we became our own bureau, the Bureau
of Indian Education became its own bureau in 2006. The one
thing that was missing in that process was service level
agreements to establish clear roles and responsibilities of who
is responsible for what in our facilities department.
Since then, I am proud to report that we have been working
closely with Division Facilities Management Construction, as
well as the Bureau of Indian Affairs, to make sure that we have
the service level agreements in place. We worked with the
agency because we do what we call quarterly facility condition
index report.
And this is how critical our maximo system, which is a
system that we go in and we train our schools to enter all the
deferred maintenance issues within the school. And in our
tenure, we will have observed an increased in deferred
maintenance because again, it's important for us to make sure
that we have accurate data to show, to provide to our tribes,
as well as Congress, so that we can identify the areas that we
need support in the systems with.
Mr. Soto. Oh, please continue.
Mr. Dearman. We continue to work with the agency and the
Bureau of Indian Affairs to address the deferred maintenance
issues. We have a list of schools actually listed as far as FCI
scores, and that hasn't been done in years. So, I feel like we
are standing things up, working collaboratively with
departments across Indian Affairs to address our facilities
issue throughout our system.
Mr. Soto. Thank you, Director Dearman. My second question
is how has the COVID-19 pandemic affected progress on these
school replacements, and more generally construction and
repairs?
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congressman. Great question. As
stated earlier in some of the opening remarks, our tribal
nations were hit extremely hard by the pandemic. And I am proud
to say, and I'm proud of my BIE leadership team, and the field
staff. We've been able to support all the tribes that we have
worked closely with. So if we had construction, the first thing
we would do is pull in our tribal leadership to make sure that
we are aligned with their executive orders that they have in
place, whether it be shelter in place, but we work with our
tribes.
And Congressman, I will need to go back to the department,
but I'm not aware of projects that were being held up and that
were postponed due to the pandemic, but I'll verify that and
provide that in writing.
Mr. Soto. Thank you, Director Dearman, I appreciate you
supplementing your answers today, and giving us greater
confidence that we're streamlining these processes for more
efficiency, and I yield back.
Chairman Sablan. All right. Thank you, Mr. Soto. I now
would like to recognize Mr. Allen please. Mr. Allen you have
five minutes sir, thank you.
Mr. Allen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can you hear me OK?
Chairman Sablan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Allen. Good, good. Well, listen I want to thank Mr.
Chairman, you and Ranking Member Owens for this hearing today.
You know I'm a firm believer that parents should play a role in
our children's education. And of course, parent involvement in
education has been a major topic this year.
And of course, piggybacking on Mr. Obernolte's question as
well, I guess my first question with regard to teachers. What
is the starting salary for a teacher? You said you had 70
apply. What's the starting salary for a teacher? Mr. Dearman?
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congressman Allen. You know I don't
have that figure right now in front of me, but I can definitely
provide that.
Mr. Allen. OK.
Mr. Dearman. As I stated we have been monitoring the states
that pay more than the BIE because we want to make sure that we
are very competitive.
Mr. Allen. Right.
Mr. Dearman. The issue is that we are looking at as well is
in recruiting staff from public schools, in the government,
they can only bring in 5 years of retirement. And so what we
are finding out is that we're going to get staff at the very
beginning of their education teaching profession, or at the
very end because Congressman, it's hard to pull State teachers
that have been invested in the State retirement 15 years, and
recruit them to where they can only bring 5 into the BIE. So,
there are some things that----
Mr. Allen. And because these schools are located on the
reservation they cannot participate in State retirement
programs?
Mr. Dearman. They are Federal--we are a Federal system, or
a tribal system, depending on how the schools are operated.
Mr. Allen. Right.
Mr. Dearman. Congressman, I need to say this too. The one
thing that really impacts our recruitment of teacher is also
our quarters because we have to make sure that we have quarters
to recruit teachers to. And right now our quarter situation,
that is something we're working across the department to make
sure that we address because some of our quarters Congressman,
make it hard to recruit teachers.
Mr. Allen. Well, give me an example of those?
Mr. Dearman. We have 1,988 quarters across 87 sites, and I
feel like that throughout this process of separating the Bureau
of Indian Education, no clear lanes of responsibility, some of
the quarters, they're in poor condition. And moving forward, I
am proud to say that we've been working across Indian Affairs.
We have these service level agreements in place and working
with the tribes to where we can actually, we have plans moving
forward to address the quarters situation. But that is one
thing Congressman that has impacted our recruitment, especially
our isolated areas where there is no other housing around, is
the quarters.
And I want to make sure that I'm on record as saying that
that does impact for recruitment.
Mr. Allen. Right. So a teacher has to live on the
reservation as a requirement of employment?
Mr. Dearman. No sir. That's not it. Some of our locations
are so far from the nearest city or town that it's hard for
them to drive an hour and a half, 2 hours, sometimes even three
or four every day one way to the school site.
Mr. Allen. Right. So you operate totally independent from
the State in which you reside, is that correct?
Mr. Dearman. As far as benefits and pay, yes.
Mr. Allen. OK. All right. So as far as parental involvement
in education, have any of your parents of the children
requested the opportunity for their child to be educated off
the reservation? In other words let the money follow the
student to give them a better chance of accomplishing their
goals?
Mr. Dearman. I'm not aware of parental requests at this
time, Congressman, but that's something we can definitely put
out a data request to see if we have parents that are
requesting that.
Mr. Allen. Right.
Mr. Dearman. We do have schools and sites where there are
no other options, but then we also have a lot of schools where
the parents do have options to send their children.
Mr. Allen. I think it would be good to listen to your
parents, and their needs, and give every student the
opportunity to succeed, and that's why you know I'm so positive
about school choice, and all across this country. All right.
Well I'm out of time. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Sablan. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Allen. I now--I
think this is going to go faster than we thought, so I would
now like to yield, and wake up Ms. Radewagen who is all the way
home in American Samoa. Alofa, Ms. Radewagen you have five
minutes, please?
Ms. Radewagen. Alofa.
Chairman Sablan. Alofa.
Ms. Radewagen. Thank you, to Chairs Leger Fernandez and
Sablan, Ranking Members Obernolte and Owens for holding this
joint hearing today. And thank you to the panel. A couple
questions here for you Director Dearman. How has the Bureau of
Indian Education provided instruction to students enrolled at
boarding schools during the pandemic?
And have all boarding schools reopened for in-person
learning?
Mr. Dearman. Great question. Our residential settings have
been
Mr. Allen. they're really a problem.
Mr. Dearman. Feedback, I apologize. That was a challenge.
We currently have 44 residential settings within our system,
and 22 of those are operated by the tribes, and 22 we directly
operate.
And again, I am proud of my teams because we work closely
with the tribes. And if the tribes put in executive orders, or
shelters in place, or they wanted us to go remote, we would go
to remote, to support our tribal leadership, and protect our
vital community Members.
At certain locations, depending on the community's access
to the internet, depending on the IT equipment that was located
at the school, we had to take a lot of things into account to
determine how we were going to make sure that we shifted and
provided a virtual education to our students. So it's going to
vary throughout our system, and again, just looking at the
different scenarios and situations with IT equipment,
broadband.
We can talk about this for hours because it's unique, and
it's so different across our 64 reservations that we have
schools located in. But moving forward, I will say this. We had
weekly meetings with Indian Health Service, CDC, because we
wanted to make sure that we provided the safest structure,
working along with the local health authorities and tribal
leadership in all of our settings, not just residential, but
all of our settings to make sure that they were safe and
returning our students and our staff.
And I feel confident that we accomplished that.
Ms. Radewagen. Thank you, Director Dearman. my time is very
short, and I've got another question. Inflation and rising fuel
prices are sure to impact the Bureau being able to support
transportation for these students. How much additional funding
will be needed to maintain current level of service because of
these rising costs?
Mr. Dearman. Thank you for that Congresswoman. I am happy
to say that you know again we have increases within our budget
that we anticipate will assist with this. That's yet to be
determined because of the gas prices in different locations,
but we will definitely work closely with our schools to pull
that data.
And you know we work with our schools. If they are
experiencing shortages, or problems, that's our job is to come
in and provide technical assistance and be creative in finding
solutions to help our schools. As of right now, I don't have
the data that you've asked for as far as gas impacts on our
school operations, but that is definitely something our school
operations teams working with the schools, will definitely keep
an eye on.
Ms. Radewagen. Thank you. Thank you Chairs. I yield back
the balance of my time.
Chairman Sablan. All right. Thank you, Ms. Radewagen, and
thank you for making the effort to join us at such an early
time for you as well. I'd now like to recognize Mr. Grothman.
Mr. Grothman I see a video picture of, but let me see. If Mr.
Grothman is not in, let's see who else is here. Mr. Bentz, Mr.
Bentz of Oregon. Sir, you have five minutes please.
Mr. Bentz. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair, and I have a
question, a number of questions for the Director, Mr. Dearman.
I served on a private Catholic school board for 6 years, and I
served on a public school board for three. One of the things
that was appalling when I went to visit my schools--not the
private school so much, but the public schools, was the
incredible lack of enthusiasm expressed by many of the middle
school students.
You should understand that I live in one of the poorest, if
not the poorest counties in Oregon, and our buildings are old
and dilapidated, and I work with my community to finally after
31 years get a bond passed to add to our high school and
improve our middle school. But still, much, much, much to be
done.
And so I have sympathy for anybody who doesn't have good
buildings, but I also understand how it takes a community to
try to make that situation better. It also I think takes a
community to try to make your kids enthusiastic about learning,
and what I figured out along with a number of other people is
that you had to do something in these communities to make the
kids enthusiastic about learning.
So Mr. Dearman, I ask you what makes the children in the
Indian country enthusiastic about learning?
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congressman. It sounds like you've
been in the classroom. You know my belief in education has
always been we have to make sure that we take care of our
students emotionally, physically, before they're ready to
learn.
In addressing that situation, especially coming out of the
pandemic, is going to be critical.
Mr. Bentz. Mr. Dearman, I need to have the answer to the
question.
Mr. Dearman. Yes.
Mr. Bentz. What I'm asking you is what makes your kids
enthusiastic about showing up at school and actually learning?
What is it that prompts them to want to learn? I just need a
very short concise answer and tell me where you got the answer.
Mr. Dearman. Connecting what the students are learning to
what they know in their world, they're tribal. That's why I say
we need to hear from tribal leaders, and this is where I'm
getting this from, Congressman, is our tribal leaders want to
be at the table. They are at the table, they're making sure
that we're teaching the culture, the traditions and the
languages of their tribe, so that our students can connect.
Our job is to connect what's in that textbook and apply it
to their everyday life to make it mean something to our
students, yes, to 101.
Mr. Bentz. Well, then let me follow that up with what is
your truancy rate? How many kids aren't showing up?
Mr. Dearman. You know Congressman that's going to be
something we're definitely going to have to go back and track
because through the pandemic we've had so many schools that
have shifted to remote, to hybrid, and that's going to be
something that we will have to go back and pull the data from.
Mr. Bentz. Why don't you, Mr. Director, you're not
answering any of my questions, and I find that unsettling.
Would you tell me how the truancy rate was prior to the
pandemic? You've been there 3 years prior, so tell me about
that.
Mr. Dearman. Truancy rate prior to the pandemic I don't
have the exact figures in front of us, but we could definitely
provide that to you. And it's going to vary on location because
of the situations that we have in some of our tribal nations.
Mr. Bentz. Well, I'm looking forward to you supplying those
numbers there, they're extremely interesting to me. And I think
everybody else because all I hear about is we need more money.
I haven't heard a word about how many of the kids are actually
showing up to work. And to that end, Director Dearman, does the
BIE have an employee performance appraisal plan?
Mr. Dearman. Yes sir, we do.
Mr. Bentz. And I need to see a copy of it.
Mr. Dearman. Absolutely.
Mr. Bentz. And then Mr. Dearman it's been more than 2 years
since the beginning of the pandemic, has BIE developed and
distributed guidance for schools on developing and implementing
the distant learning programs that you've kind of alluded to a
few minutes ago?
Mr. Dearman. Yes. We're in the process of developing a
distance learning handbook. As I stated in my opening remarks,
Congressman, we're implementing an educational learning
management system, something that we need within our system,
and we will be providing the guidance through an official
document for all of our schools to follow. Our tribal----
Mr. Bentz. And if I may, thank you for providing that. And
my last question is the one I started out with. What in your
opinion, and tell me where you've got a chance to refine it,
makes your children--our children, on these Indian country
spaces, enthusiastic about learning. I have not heard the
answer.
Mr. Dearman. Enthusiastic about learning in our tribal
nations is connecting what's in that textbook to their everyday
life and including culture and traditions.
Mr. Bentz. And where do you get that? Have you talked to
the kids about this?
Mr. Dearman. I'm hearing that from our tribal leaders, and
also any time we implement programs around culture, traditions,
and language within our tribal schools, the interest and
involvement increases.
Mr. Bentz. Thank you, Mr. Director, and with that Mr.
Chair, I yield back.
Chairman Sablan. Thank you, Mr. Bentz. Let me hold on
please, thank you. Let me see. Mr. Keller, Mr. Keller you have
five minutes of questioning before I move on to Mr. Cawthorn.
Mr. Keller. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Dearman, thank you
for being here today. You indicated that BIE is working on a
policy and handbook to address GAO recommendations related to
the Johnson O'Malley program. Could you please tell us more
about the plan, and how it will address the GAO's
recommendations and improve the program?
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congressman. This has been a long
process through tribal consultation, listening sessions, and
it's something we wanted to hear from our stakeholders. Out of
the GAO's five recommendations over the Johnson O'Malley
program, we have closed two, and we have three that are
remaining.
And the policy and handbook we feel will definitely
implement these recommendations. Congressman, the issue that
we've encountered in BIE is the lack of policies within BIE,
and that is something our team is working hard to establish,
and we feel like this is a document that's need it, and when
this policy and handbook is published, we feel like it's going
to assist our contractors, and give them the information that
they've been asking for.
Mr. Keller. OK. Just a quick followup. So, you closed two
of the recommendations, and three are remaining. Is that
correct?
Mr. Dearman. Yes.
Mr. Keller. When did you get the GAO recommendations?
Mr. Dearman. These are 2020 recommendations.
Mr. Keller. OK. So, it's been 2 years. And maybe this isn't
for this meeting. Maybe there would be a timeframe on when you
expect to have the three remaining closed?
Mr. Dearman. Yes. We can provide that. I'd like to take
that back to the department and give them to my team, and
actually reach out to GAO and we can provide a timeline of the
expectation of those three closures.
Mr. Keller. Well, I would think that if education is that
important we'd already have that timeline, and a plan to make
sure we're meeting those milestones, and to get to those
metrics. But I want to keep on a couple other things here if I
may. Mr. Dearman, as part of the BIE's response to one of GAO's
reports, you discussed the Bureau of Indian Education's effort
to assess its use of strategic data and reform the way the
agency collects and uses its data.
What steps does BIE have in place or is BIE implementing--
so what was being implemented to protect the security of that
data, and what technical assistance and oversight does BIE
provide to its schools to ensure compliance with the Family
Education Rights and Privacy Act.
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congressman. I felt like there's
two parts to that question. I want to talk briefly about we are
standing up the chief performance office that's collecting and
monitoring our schools, and that's something we've been working
closely with GAO around.
The data--I'm going to shift to virtual now. The reason I
feel like we're protective with our student data and our PII is
because we work within the Department of Interior. All of our
IT functions are supported by the Office of Information
Technology and Management, which is part of the Department of
Interior.
All of our 53 BIE operated schools have to meet those
qualifications, and they have a hand in everything that we're
doing, in any of our programs that deal with the student data,
or the staff data.
Mr. Keller. OK. The other thing I wanted to touch on was a
little bit, you mentioned that BIE is continuing to work with
the Bureau of Indian Affairs to implement improvements to the
distance learning in the BIE funded schools. Can you describe
more specifically how the plans to resolve those
recommendations from GAO?
Mr. Dearman. The recommendations on that one Congressman,
we are anticipating having closure on those with the
implementation of a handbook for education learning management
system. BIA, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, involvement with
implementing the IT infrastructure would be around the area of
facilities improvement.
The Office of Information Management and Technology is
another part of Indian Affairs. they will have a hand in making
sure that the switches, all the needs, the infrastructure
needs, as far as IT are met. So we've had three different
agencies, or sections of Indian Affairs at school locations
making sure that we have the support that our schools need.
Mr. Keller. OK. Just a question that I have really. How do
you interact with the U.S. Department of Education? Is there
any functions that they provide you with that might be best
practices that would be helpful?
Mr. Dearman. We have regular scheduled meetings with the
Department of Education. And so we do have some--I feel that we
have a strong rapport with the Department of Education.
Mr. Keller. How do you. Just how does the Department of
Education, their interactions with you differ from that of
states or other governments?
Mr. Dearman. Great question, Congressman. The Department of
Education, we submit reports. In some areas the Department of
Education considers our own State. The states that our schools
reside in we've started reaching out and wanting to make sure
that we have communication with the states that are schools
reside in because it's important that we work together to
support our schools.
And some of our states, we actually have cooperative
agreements with the state's education department that our
schools reside in. So it's going to vary, Congressman,
depending.
Mr. Keller. I think if we're concerned about education
across the board, I would think that we would treat everybody
the same working with the U.S. Department of Education, the
State departments of education, regardless of whether you're a
public school that's not you know, part of the Bureau of Indian
Education, and you know, the schools within the jurisdiction.
So I think there's some work to make sure everybody gets
the same, and the best practices. Thank you so much.
Chairman Sablan. You're welcome, Mr. Keller. Now let me
recognize Mr. Cawthorn. You have five minutes sir, thank you.
Mr. Cawthorn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It really means a
lot. Ms. Sirois, how does the GAO monitor BIE's implementation
of its recommendations? And is it monitoring more extensively
than normal because the BIE is on the high-risk list?
Ms. Sirois. Yes. We do monitor BIE's implementation of its
recommendations much more closely than agencies that are not on
our high-risk list. We have usually quarterly meetings with
Director Dearman and his staff to talk about the progress
meeting our recommendations.
So we really try to track where they are with our
recommendations, and when they're planning to close them.
Mr. Cawthorn. Wonderful. And would you say in your
experience the BIE has been generally cooperative with your
organization?
Ms. Sirois. Yes. Ever since Director Dearman came onboard
in November 2016, we've established an excellent relationship
with him and his management team. A relationship that was not
as positive prior to Mr. Dearman coming onboard.
Mr. Cawthorn. Excellent, excellent. So one followup
question please, Ms. Sirois. What are the obstacles to
completing the list of recommendations in your opinion?
Ms. Sirois. Well, we have ten as I said, we have ten open
high-risk recommendations, excuse me. I think one of the
biggest--one of the problems in terms of implementing them as I
talked about earlier is I think their very high vacancy rate,
which is now 45 percent agency-wide, excuse me 33 percent
agency-wide.
But with that high vacancy rate they do not have staff
available, enough staff available, to implement, I think, a lot
of our recommendations.
Mr. Cawthorn. Interesting. I will. Thank you very much Ms.
Sirois for your comments. Mr. Director, if you don't mind, I'm
very proud that I get to represent the Qualla Boundary and the
Eastern Band of Cherokee and the reservation. The Eastern Band
from what I understand, supports legislation that would create
a Truth and Healing Commission to study the Federal boarding
schools that many Indian children were forced to attend.
What are you doing to support efforts to study the legacy
of Indian boarding schools?
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congressman, and I do want to make
sure that I go on the record as saying the residential schools
of today are not the boarding schools of the past. We are
working with tribal leaders. And you're going to hear me say
over and over that I'm very proud of my team across the Bureau
of Indian Education because we have schools in 64 reservations,
and we want our tribes at the table.
But we have implemented language programs. We've
implemented culture classes. We need our tribes at the table.
We are also working alongside the department, and I know that
Secretary Haaland is going out for some listening sessions, her
and Assistant Secretary Newland, and we will be attending those
in the locations of our residential settings to listen if
there's any ideas that we can grab ahold of and make our system
better.
But I will say that you know I would welcome any of the
Members, any time you're close to any of our schools, drop in
and see us. And drop in and see how we're doing with taking
care of our kids. Congressman, we have 44 residential settings
across our system, 22 that we directly operate, and 22 that the
tribes operate. And I'm proud of our residential staff because
think about being a parent, a guardian to hundreds of kids in a
dorm.
It's definitely a unique situation. Congressman, to close
that out with you, you know my daughter graduated from one of
our residential boarding schools.
Mr. Cawthorn. Well, that's excellent. I'm really glad that
you know from your testimony that it sounds like the boarding
schools are doing excellent now. Mr. Director, my question, if
you don't mind me rephrasing it, is there any efforts to try
and study the legacy and the long-lasting, whether it's harms
or benefits, that have happened from the reservation boarding
schools of the past?
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congressman. You know I feel like
you know a lot of our tribal--let me answer yes. We have been
in our communities, depending on the location of the schools,
we have boarding school survivors that have you know they may
be on our school boards, they may be on our parent committees,
they're involved in a lot of our locations in the operations of
our schools.
So we do have involvement with them. Throughout this
process of the investigation, again Congressman, the BIE will
stand in support, and we will continue to learn how we can get
better. We identified Congressman, through our strategic
direction which was a first ever for the Bureau of Indian
Education, behavior health wellness needs across our system.
We identified that actually before the pandemic, working
with tribal leaders and stakeholders, and we feel confident
that we have things in place to address any of the situations
that may arise in our boarding school, our tribal communities,
our base schools. But we feel like we were ahead of the game by
addressing in our strategic direction the needs, behavior
health and wellness needs, of our tribal communities.
Mr. Cawthorn. Thank you. Mr. Director, thank you very much,
thank you Ms. Sirois, I really appreciate your testimony.
Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Sablan. Thank you, thank you. I'm now going to
Representative Stansbury. Ms. Stansbury you have five minutes
please, thank you.
Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to
both of our Chairpersons and our Ranking Members for holding
this hearing today. And I want to say thank you to all of our
educators who serve on these committees, and to all of the
educators out there who are listening in, thank you for serving
our communities. Thank you for serving this vital role and
helping lift up our children and help prepare them for their
futures.
I have one message this morning, which is please fund BIE
schools. The Federal Government has a treaty, trust, and moral
responsibility to fund these schools. We signed hundreds of
treaties as a nation with tribal nations. We made commitments
over the last 150 years that we would ensure that our Native
children had not only an adequate education, but the brilliant
education that would help to prepare them for their futures,
and we need to fund these schools.
It is Congress's responsibility in partnership with the
administration to ensure that we are doing that. And that is
why myself, and 25 colleagues sent a letter to the
Appropriations Committee asking the Committee to fully fund our
schools, the construction backlog, and to provide support for
tribal colleges and universities (TCUs).
I know this is an oversight of the administration's role in
BIE, but we in Congress also have a fundamental, moral
responsibility, and a fundamental tribal trust responsibility
as well. And so it's not only on our BIE colleagues who are
here today, but on us. And so I really want to emphasize that
this morning.
I want to thank you Director Dearman for being willing to
step up, and to play this role as the director of these
programs. During the Obama administration, I worked at OMB, and
was on the panel of individuals that was helping to bring
forward some of the reforms for the BIE. It's a long road, and
I know that we will be working on these issues for many years.
I'm grateful for your leadership and your dedication to
these schools. As we've been talking this morning, these BIE
schools provide vital education to over 40,000 Native students
across the country. I want to emphasize especially for my
colleagues this morning, who have been asking questions about
school choice, some of these schools are in places where this
is the only school that is available for hours of driving.
These schools are historic, they are in communities, they
provide tribally and culturally and linguistically appropriate
education, and we need to be making sure that we are not only
providing the administrative supports for these schools, but
that they have adequate funding to replace decrepit buildings
and maintenance issues, that they're able to hire these
teachers that are from these communities, and that there is the
proper bureaucratic structures in place to partner with tribes,
to consult with tribes, to ensure that we're meeting the needs
of those students in those schools, and that ultimately, if
tribal communities want to take control of these schools, that
they are able to.
And so, all of that takes strong leadership in addressing
many of the issues that have been identified. I want to take
just a moment here to emphasize the needs in my district. We
have a number of tribally controlled schools and BIE schools
across New Mexico. In my district, the To'Hajiilee Chapter of
the Navajo Nation has a school that desperately needs to be
replaced.
It was built in a flood plain as a boarding school. It is
no longer adequate. These kids have been sent home. There is
not sufficient Wi-Fi for these kids to be learning, and so
Director Dearman, in my plea to you, and my ask of you this
morning, is will you commit today to make sure that we are
meeting the needs of To'Hajiilee community school, and we are
prioritizing that school to get it rebuilt in a safe way so
that our kids can go back to school?
Mr. Dearman. Yes. I'll commit to that, and thank you for
your support.
Ms. Stansbury. Thank you. Thank you ,Director. And I know
that these are a priority, obviously for you, for your staff. I
want to thank your staff for their incredible commitment. We
also have Pueblo schools across New Mexico that need facility
support, that need help getting staffing and teachers there,
but again, before I sign-off here with my time, I just want to
emphasize, we must fund these schools adequately.
This is not about school choice. This is not about having
schools that do not--that invest too much money. This is about
underinvestment of funds. This is about the history of how the
United States historically made commitments to tribal
communities that we would provide sufficient funding to educate
Native children, and about ensuring that we make good on those
promises, that we provide the funding that the U.S. Government
promised that it would do so, and ensure that we are investing
in those schools, and all of the supports that our students
need.
So, with that Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the opportunity
to speak this morning, and for holding this important hearing.
Chairman Sablan. Thank you, Ms. Stansbury. I can see a
video stream of a Chair apparently in Mr. Grothman's office. I
can't see Mr. Grothman. So, I'm going to assume that all
Members have asked their questions, and without objection move
now to ask the gentlelady from Oregon, Ms. Bonamici, to ask her
questions for five minutes please.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, so much, Chair Sablan. Thank you
to the Chairs and Ranking Members for holding this important
hearing. And thank you Director Dearman, and Assistant Director
Sirois for being here.
The Chemawa Indian School in Salem, Oregon, opened in 1880.
It's the oldest continuously operated residential boarding
school for indigenous students in the United States. Chemawa
has a complex and painful history, including recent concerns
related to student health and safety, academic shortcomings,
treatment of employees, questionable hiring practices, and a
lack of financial transparency and oversight.
I've been working since 2015 to obtain accurate, timely
information from Chemawa leadership, BIA, and BIE, and I
continue to be concerned about the outcomes and safety of
Native youth, especially at Chemawa and whether they're
receiving a high-quality trauma-informed, culturally relevant
education.
I appreciate the GAO report, and the conversation today
about it. I also want to highlight the Department of Interiors
investigation into Indian boarding schools and thank Secretary
Haaland for her leadership. Our nation has not yet fully
reckoned with the painful history of Federal Indian boarding
schools like Chemawa.
Director Dearman, nice to see you. We've met and discussed
issues regarding Chemawa many times. Although there have been
attempts to improve the conditions at Chemawa, and you talked
about that today, and I appreciate that, we know that there's
still more that needs to be done.
So, what work has the Bureau of Indian Education done to
specifically improve oversight at Chemawa, and also, what is
your progress in implementing the recommendations found in
Volume One of the Interior Department's Federal Indian Boarding
School Initiative, and where do you need additional support
from Congress?
Mr. Dearman. Great to see you, Congresswoman.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you.
Mr. Dearman. You know at Chemawa, and thank you for
recognizing that we have met multiple times to address
concerns. The oversight at Chemawa right now we do have an OIG.
The OIG was requested to go in and really look at the
expenditures of Chemawa Indian School.
And once we received those recommendations, we have been
meeting with OIG around that. But once we received those
recommendations, we'll definitely look at implementing those to
make us stronger, and make sure that our oversight has
improved.
As I stated earlier, you know I'm proud to say that we are
standing up a Chief Performance Office within BIE that will
also have oversight over expenditures, of the monitoring
visits, and that's something we've been working closely with
GAO. School operations is another way that we are confident
that we are going to provide more oversight.
We've actually established funding lines to identify
different funding streams that are schools are utilizing for
expenditures and providing trainings around allowable
expenditures from our division of performance and
accountability, as well as our school operations.
So Congresswoman, I feel like I'm confident that we are
implementing and making improvements throughout BIE, that it
won't just have a positive impact, and as far as oversight at
Chemawa, but other areas across our system.
Ms. Bonamici. And, Director Dearman, what about the Federal
Indian Board's Initiative? There were several recommendations
made in that. How is that going?
Mr. Dearman. What we will do is you know we definitely
first of all we appreciate Secretary Haaland and the Assistant
Secretary Newland's leadership in that area. You know volume
one lays out the groundwork moving forward. I will say that we
will be attending the listening sessions that Secretary Haaland
is going to be going out conducting because we need to hear
from our former students at the residential boarding schools,
of the residential schools, so that we can take--not wait on
the report, but start taking what we are hearing from our
survivors, our people that are former students, and actually
looking at how we can implement recommendations immediately,
and not wait on a final report.
So we will, we plan on having staff at each location for
listening sessions.
Ms. Bonamici. And I do want to try to get another question
in. We know that even before the COVID-19 pandemic American
Indian and Alaskan Native students needed access to mental
health services. We've had that conversation.
Native youth have a higher than average rates of depression
and dying by suicide. These issues have only become more acute
during the pandemic, and the Department of Interior's report I
think is an important step toward identifying, addressing some
of these systemic issues. So Assistant Secretary Newland, in
the report recommended that the department continue its
investigations to uncover the full scope of the atrocities of
the Indian boarding school system, historically.
So last year my colleague, Representative Sharice Davids,
introduced the Truth and Healing Commission on Indian Boarding
Schools Policies Act, which would establish a commission to
investigate the Indian boarding school system. So how could
this commission compliment the continued efforts of the
department to investigate, and ultimately improve the Indian
boarding school system?
Mr. Dearman. Thank you, Congresswoman. I feel like the
commission, this is something we have been having
conversations, especially within the department. By bringing in
different stakeholders to be a part of the commission could
definitely benefit. We need to hear the voices of former
students. We need to hear--we need our congressional staff on
there.
But I am actually a Member of this commission, and I look
forward to that collaboration because, again, it's important
that we have our tribal leaders, our stakeholders from our
tribes and our communities in these communities of our
residential schools to be a part.
We need to hear what they went through, their experiences,
and what we need to avoid moving forward.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Director, and in my remaining two
seconds I just want to again thank you for working to improve
conditions at Chemawa. One of the things that we've spoken
about over the years is the need for more Native educators, and
I know that has been a challenge. I hope progress is being made
in that regard.
You mentioned Oregon is one of the states where the teacher
pay at the State level is higher than at the Indian boarding
school. I hope you can resolve that issue, and you can continue
to recruit, not only excellent teachers, but excellent Native
teachers.
It really does make a difference for the students there.
And I'm now out of time and I yield back. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Sablan. Thank you very much, Ms. Bonamici. I now
would like to remind my colleagues that pursuant to Committee
practice, materials for submission for the hearing record must
be submitted to the Committee Clerk within 14 days following
the last day of the hearing, so by close of business on July
12, preferably in Microsoft Word format.
The material submitted must address the subject matter of
the hearing. Only a Member of the Committee or an invited
witness may submit materials for inclusion in the hearing
record. Documents are limited to 50 pages each. Documents
longer than 50 pages will be incorporated into the record via
an internet link that you must provide to the Committee Clerk
within the required timeframe.
But please recognize that in the future that link may no
longer work. Pursuant to House rules and regulations, items for
the record shall be submitted to the Clerk electronically by
emailing submissions to [email protected].
Again, I want to thank the witnesses for their
participation today. Members of the Subcommittees may have some
additional questions for you, and we ask you to please respond
to those questions in writing. The hearing record will be open
for 14 days in order to receive those responses.
I remind my colleagues that pursuant to Committee practice,
witness questions for the hearing record must be submitted to
the Majority Committee Staff or Committee Clerk within 7 days.
The questions submitted must address the subject matter of the
hearing.
I now would like to recognize Mr. Obernolte for his closing
statement please.
Mr. Obernolte. Thank you very much, Chairman Sablan. I want
to thank you very much Director Dearman and Ms. Sirois from the
GAO. It's been a very productive hearing, and I want to
continue having these hearings as we work toward getting the
BIE off of the high-risk list of the GAO, but also as we help
the BIE in fulfilling their critically important role in
providing education to the nearly 40,000 students that they're
responsible for.
So I think we're all on the same page about that in that
sense, and so I want to thank everyone for their dedication
toward reaching that goal. Thank you, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
Chairman Sablan. Thank you, Mr. Obernolte, Ranking Member
Obernolte. I now recognize myself for the purpose of making my
closing statement. Thank you again for our witnesses for your
time and testimony. I want to thank all our Members for the
opportunity today for joining us in this hearing.
Today we reflected on the important role of the Bureau of
Indian Education schools play in providing a high-quality
education for American Indians and Alaskan Native students that
honors and preserves their heritage.
Unfortunately, as our witnesses made clear, even before the
pandemic, BIE students did not have the resources they needed
to excel. And now the pandemic has compounded the consequences
of multi-generational neglect and left BIE students further
behind. While Congress delivered historic resources to protect
the health and safety of students and educators, and to make up
for lost time, these investments alone will not solve the
persistent problems BIE schools and students face.
Together we must deliver sustained support to ensure we
uphold the Constitutional commitment and moral responsibility
to educate American Indian and Alaskan Native students. I would
like to think that we will come back, and we will continue to
review this to keep our eyes on this issue, on BIE education.
And also come back in at some future time to another oversight
hearing to see how much movement we have progressed toward the
future.
So, for now I thank you Director Dearman, and Ms. Sirois.
And I look forward to working with my colleagues to fulfill
this commitment. Thank you again to our witnesses. If there is
no further business, without objection the Committee stands
adjourned, and thank you.
[Questions submitted for the record and the response by the
Bureau
of Indian Education follow:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
[Whereupon, at 12:48 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
[all]