[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                 TRUSTING THE TAP: UPGRADING AMERICA'S 
                     DRINKING WATER INFRASTRUCTURE

=======================================================================

                             HYBRID HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

             SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             MARCH 29, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-76
                           
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                           

     Published for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce

                   govinfo.gov/committee/house-energy
                        energycommerce.house.gov
                        
                                _________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
60-334 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     

                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE

                    FRANK PALLONE, Jr.,  New Jersey
                                 Chairman
BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois              CATHY Mc  MORRIS RODGERS, 
ANNA G. ESHOO, California                Washington
DIANA De  GETTE, Colorado              Ranking Member
MIKE DOYLE, Pennsylvania             FRED UPTON, Michigan
JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois             MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas
G. K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina    STEVE SCALISE, Louisiana
DORIS O. MATSUI, California          ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio
KATHY CASTOR, Florida                BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky
JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland           DAVID B. Mc  KINLEY, West Virginia
JERRY Mc  NERNEY, California         ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia
PAUL TONKO, New York                 GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida
YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York           BILL JOHNSON, Ohio
KURT SCHRADER, Oregon                BILLY LONG, Missouri
TONY CARDENAS, California            LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana
RAUL RUIZ, California                MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
SCOTT H. PETERS, California          RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina
DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan             TIM WALBERG, Michigan
MARC A. VEASEY, Texas                EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia
ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire         JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina
ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois, Vice       GARY J. PALMER, Alabama
    Chair                            NEAL P. DUNN, Florida
NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California    JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah
A. DONALD Mc  EACHIN, Virginia       DEBBIE LESKO, Arizona
LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware       GREG PENCE, Indiana
DARREN SOTO, Florida                 DAN CRENSHAW, Texas
TOM O'HALLERAN, Arizona              JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania
KATHLEEN M. RICE, New York           KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
KIM SCHRIER, Washington
LORI TRAHAN, Massachusetts
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
                                 ------                                

                           Professional Staff

                   TIFFANY GUARASCIO, Staff Director
                 WAVERLY GORDON, Deputy Staff Director
                  NATE HODSON, Minority Staff Director
             Subcommittee on Environment and Climate Change

                          PAUL TONKO, New York
                                 Chairman
DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado              DAVID B. McKINLEY, West Virginia
JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois               Ranking Member
JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland           BILL JOHNSON, Ohio
YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York           MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
RAUL RUIZ, California, Vice Chair    RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina
SCOTT H. PETERS, California          EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia
DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan             JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina
NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California    GARY J. PALMER, Alabama
A. DONALD McEACHIN, Virginia         JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah
LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware       DAN CRENSHAW, Texas
DARREN SOTO, Florida                 CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, Washington 
TOM O'HALLERAN, Arizona                  (ex officio)
FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey (ex 
    officio)
                             
                             C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hon. Paul Tonko, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  New York, opening statement....................................     2
    Prepared statement...........................................     4
David B. McKinley, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  West Virginia, opening statement...............................     7
    Prepared statement...........................................     9
Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the 
  State of New Jersey, opening statement.........................    11
    Prepared statement...........................................    13
Hon. Earl L. ``Buddy'' Carter, a Representative in Congress from 
  the State of Georgia, opening statement........................    15
    Prepared statement...........................................    17

                               Witnesses

Prepared statement Erik D. Olson, Senior Strategic Director for 
  Health And Food, Natural Resources Defense Counsel.............    22
    Prepared statement...........................................    25
    Answers to submitted questions...............................   166
Lori J. Mathieu, Public Health Branch Chief, Environmental Health 
  and Drinking Water Branch, Connecticut Department of Public 
  Health, and President, Association of Drinking Water 
  Administrators.................................................    60
    Prepared statement...........................................    62
    Answers to submitted questions...............................   167
Kareem Adeem, Director of Water and Sewer Utilities, The City of 
  Newark, New Jersey.............................................    79
    Prepared statement...........................................    81
    Answers to submitted questions...............................   175
Richard Diaz, Midwest Regional Field Organizer, Bluegreen 
  Alliance.......................................................    83
    Prepared statement...........................................    85
    Answers to submitted questions...............................   177
James P. McGoff, Chief Operating Officer and Director of 
  Environmental Programs, Indiana Finance Authority, on Behalf of 
  Council of Infrastructure Financing Authorities................    96
    Prepared statement...........................................    98
    Answers to submitted questions...............................   181

                           Submitted Material

Letter of March 29, 2022, from Matthew Holmes, Chief Executive 
  Officer, National Rural Water Association, to Mr. Tonko and Mr. 
  McKinley, submitted by Mr. Tonko...............................   140
Letter of March 28, 2022, from Keith Ashby, Interim CEO, Rural 
  Community Assistance Partnership, to Mr. Pallone and Ms. 
  Rodgers, submitted by Mr. Tonko................................   142
Letter of March 29, 2022, from G. Tracy Mehan, III, Executive 
  Director for Government Affairs, American Water Works 
  Association, to Mr. Pallone and Mrs. Rodgers, submitted by Mr. 
  Tonko..........................................................   144
Letter of March 29, 2022, from Michael Arceneaux, Acting Chief 
  Executive Officer, Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies, 
  to Mr. Tonko and Mr. McKinley, submitted by Mr. Tonko..........   147
Letter of March 29, 2022, from industry associations, to Mr. 
  Tonko and Mr. McKinley, submitted by Mr. Tonko.................   155
Replacement Ordinance Notice of May 11, 2021, submitted by Mr. 
  Tonko..........................................................   157
Letter of August 23, 2021, from Steven Pudney, C. Eng., MICE, 
  Section Chief-Engineering, Bureau of Water System Engineering, 
  Department of Environmental Protection of the State of New 
  Jersey, to Mr. Adeem, submitted by Mr. Tonko...................   160
Inventory Source Data of March 24, 2022, from Eric Bennett, 
  Parkersburg Utility Board, submitted by McKinley...............   162
Letter of June 30, 2021, from Michael S. Regan, EPA 
  Administrator, to Chemical Sector Partners, submitted by Mr. 
  Crenshaw.......................................................   164

 
  TRUSTING THE TAP: UPGRADING AMERICA'S DRINKING WATER INFRASTRUCTURE

                              ----------                              


                        TUESDAY, MARCH 29, 2022

                  House of Representatives,
    Subcommittee on Environment and Climate Change,
                          Committee on Energy and Commerce,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:33 a.m., 
the John D. Dingell Room, 2123, Rayburn House Office Building 
and remotely via Cisco Webex online video conferencing, Hon. 
Paul Tonko, (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Members present: Representatives Tonko, Schakowsky, 
Sarbanes, Clarke, Ruiz, Barragan, McEachin, Blunt Rochester, 
Soto, O'Halleran, Pallone (ex officio); McKinley (subcommittee 
ranking member), Johnson, Hudson, Carter, Palmer, Curtis, 
Crenshaw, and Rodgers (ex officio).
    Also present: Representatives Castor and McNerney.
    Staff present: Timia Crisp, Professional Staff Member; 
Waverly Gordon, Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel; 
Tiffany Guarascio, Staff Director; Anthony Gutierrez, 
Professional Staff Member; Caitlin Haberman, Senior 
Professional Staff Member; Perry Hamilton, Clerk; Zach Kahan, 
Deputy Director Outreach and Membership Services; Rick Kessler, 
Senior Advisor and Staff Director, Energy and Environment; 
Mackenzie Kuhl, Press Assistant; Brendan Larkin, Policy 
Coordinator; Elysa Montfort, Press Secretary; Kaitlyn Peel, 
Digital Director; Kylea Rogers, Staff Assistant; Andrew 
Souvall, Director of Communications, Outreach and Member 
Services; Rebecca Tomilchik, Policy Analyst; Michael Cameron, 
Minority Policy Analyst, Consumer Protection and Commerce, 
Energy, Environment; Jerry Couri, Minority Deputy Chief Counsel 
for Environment; Peter Kielty, Minority General Counsel; Emily 
King, Minority Member Services Director; Bijan Koohmaraie, 
Minority Chief Counsel, Oversight and Investigations Chief 
Counsel; and Mary Martin, Minority Chief Counsel, Energy and 
Environment
    Mr. Tonko. The Subcommittee on Environment and Climate 
Change will now come to order.
    Today the subcommittee is holding a hearing entitled, 
``Trusting the Tap: Upgrading America's Drinking Water 
Infrastructure.''
    Due to the COVID-19 public health emergency, members can 
participate in today's hearing either in person or remotely via 
online video conferencing.
    In accordance with the updated guidance issued by the 
attending physician, members, staff, and members of the press 
present in the hearing room are not required to wear a mask.
    For members participating remotely, your microphones will 
be set on mute for the purpose of eliminating inadvertent 
background noise. Members participating remotely will need to 
unmute your microphone each time you wish to speak.
    Please note that once you unmute you microphone, anything 
that is said in Webex will be heard over the loudspeakers in 
the committee room and subject to be heard by the live stream 
and C-SPAN.
    Since members are participating from different locations at 
today's hearing, all recognition of members, such as for 
questions, will be in the order of subcommittee seniority.
    Documents for the record can be sent to Rebecca Tomilchik 
at the email address we provided to staff, and all documents 
will be entered into the record at the conclusion of this 
hearing.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes for an opening 
statement.


   STATEMENT OF HON. PAUL TONKO, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                   FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK

    Mr. Tonko. For many years under both Democratic and 
Republican majorities, this committee has heard from a chorus 
of State and local governments, public health and environmental 
organizations, labor unions, and American manufacturers urging 
Congress to provide greater Federal assistance in support of 
our Nation's crumbling water infrastructure.
    We are all too aware of water systems' struggles, frequent 
main breaks, massive leaks of treated water, PFAS 
contaminations, and an estimated ten million lead pipes in 
service, which are overwhelmingly found in low-income 
communities and communities of color.
    These challenges on top of a growing backlog of maintenance 
projects put financial stress on local governments and water 
authorities, which then translates to rate increases for water 
users.
    I believe that every federally elected official should bear 
some responsibility and, frankly, some shame that there are so 
many Americans that lack access to safe, reliable, and, yes, 
affordable drinking water.
    Only since last year can we say that we have made an honest 
attempt to tackle the scale of this problem. Last year's 
bipartisan infrastructure law made an historic down payment to 
address our long-neglected water infrastructure. It included 
more than $50 billion for water systems, and today we will have 
an opportunity to examine the funding being distributed through 
the Drinking Water State Revolving Funds.
    This includes some $11.7 billion to supplement the Drinking 
Water SRF annual appropriations; $15 billion for the 
replacement of lead service lines; and $4 billion to address 
emerging contaminants in drinking water, such as PFAS.
    Furthermore, Congress has required that 49 percent of the 
funds for the SRF supplemental and lead lines be provided as 
grants and forgivable loans to our disadvantaged communities.
    Given this historic investment, there will certainly need 
to be some adjustments made by States, and with that in mind, 
earlier this month EPA issued an implementation memo to provide 
information to States on how best to administer these new 
funds, and by providing this funding through the SRF, States 
have flexibility to meet their unique needs.
    This is the nature of the cooperative federalism enshrined 
in the Safe Drinking Water Act, and I have no doubt that it can 
continue to be a successful model.
    It is my expectation that EPA will continue to provide 
technical assistance and guidance on how States can make the 
most of these funds, including by identifying best practices to 
enhance capacity building and program access for rural and 
disadvantaged communities.
    We know that ramping up State and local governments' 
capacity to administer these funds effectively will have its 
challenges, but we should not allow these challenges, which can 
and will be overcome by committed States, to overshadow the 
immense opportunity being provided by this funding.
    States and local governments will finally be able to 
address their immense infrastructure backlogs. They will have a 
pipeline of resources to enable recruitment and training of the 
next generation of water sector employees and the ability to 
access SRF funds as grants and forgivable loans which provides 
new opportunities to small and disadvantaged systems that 
previously would never have been able to consider an SRF loan.
    It is no surprise that stakeholders, such as the National 
Rural Water Association and the Rural Community Assistance 
Partnership, have submitted letters which will be entered into 
the hearing record later today that celebrate this funding's 
potential benefits to rural communities.
    The bipartisan infrastructure law will result in long-
overdue work getting done. It will fund projects that will make 
Americans healthier, and it will create jobs.
    The city of Newark has proven it can be done, and the work 
being done in Milwaukee is further confirming that there are 
replicable models for removing lead lines and repairing 
infrastructure that results in developing a localized, 
unionized workforce.
    This funding will not solve all of our Nation's water 
issues. There is still work to do both to ensure effective 
implementation of these funds as well as efforts to improve 
water affordability, system resilience, and certainly standard 
setting.
    But I am excited that today we will hear from State, local, 
public health, and labor organizations to understand the 
opportunities created by this bipartisan infrastructure law.
    I do thank our witnesses for joining us this morning, and I 
look forward to your testimonies.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Tonko follows:]

                 Prepared Statement of Hon. Paul Tonko
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                 Prepared Statement of Hon. Paul Tonko

    Mr. Tonko. And with that, I will now recognize the ranking 
member of the subcommittee, Representative McKinley of West 
Virginia.
    The mic is yours.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DAVID B. McKINLEY, A REPRESENTATIVE 
          IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

    Mr. McKinley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Chairman, according to the American Society of Civil 
Engineers, they publish a report card that ranks the States 
according to their water quality and their whole infrastructure 
system, and they commented that Nevada and Oregon were ranked 
first and second for their quality of their infrastructure.
    So it may be understandable that those States may have had 
some reservation about funding an infrastructure bill, but what 
about Mississippi, West Virginia who ranked last?
    If you look at the report card, we are ranked last in the 
country. Our drinking water alone in West Virginia was given a 
D, the lowest rating.
    These States are desperate. Nearly everyone in Congress 
says America needs better infrastructure, but when they were 
given a chance to vote for the bill last year, it did not pass 
unanimously.
    So, Mr. Chairman, look. I have been a Member of Congress 
for nearly 12 years, and this was the first opportunity we had 
to get a real infrastructure bill to the President's desk.
    Oh, President Obama talked about doing it, but in the eight 
years he never did it, and then President Trump wanted to pass 
an infrastructure, but Speaker Pelosi would not let his bill 
come to the floor.
    And after months of bickering here, partisan bickering, I 
appreciate the leadership's decision to keep the social 
spending known as Build Back Better separate from the bill. 
Now, this bill we have passed by the legislature is pure 
infrastructure.
    And according to Forbes, the social spending portion is 
dead in the Senate.
    So when I am back in West Virginia, I hear great things 
from stakeholders everywhere I go about this bill, from Marie 
Prezioso with the West Virginia Water Development Authority and 
Todd Grinstead with the West Virginia Rural Water Association. 
They talk about communities like Aurora, Fairview, Paw Paw, and 
McDowen, and Wayne County, McDowen and Wyoming County. These 
communities are struggling, Mr. Chairman.
    According to the West Virginia DEP, our State had nearly 
2,500 miles of contaminated water streams. So this bipartisan 
infrastructure bill is a once in a lifetime opportunity for 
these small and rural communities to get clean, affordable 
water.
    But this committee is going to need to conduct rigorous 
oversight. Democrats unfortunately have a history of 
prioritizing climate change over drinking water and putting 
urban interests over those of rural communities.
    For example, President Obama cut funding for the State 
Revolving Fund for rural areas by half.
    So these communities must be vigilant to ensure, and this 
committee particularly and to you, Mr. Chairman; we have got to 
be vigilant that the small and rural communities are not left 
out again.
    So I look forward to today's discussion, and I yield back 
the balance of my time.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. McKinley follows:]

              Prepared Statement of Hon. David B. McKinley
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes Representative Pallone, the hard-
working chair of the full committee, for 5 minutes for his 
opening statement.


OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK PALLONE, Jr., A REPRESENTATIVE 
            IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY


    Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Chairman Tonko, particularly for 
that hard-working remark. Thank you.
    Mr. Tonko. It is true.
    Mr. Pallone. Today the committee is continuing its ongoing 
work to ensure all Americans have access to safe and clean 
drinking water.
    And when you think about it, there is no more basic 
necessity in our lives than drinking water. We all need to be 
able to trust that when we turn the tap on, our faucets have 
water coming out that is safe for us and for our families.
    Unfortunately, for far too long we failed to properly 
invest in our aging drinking water infrastructure, and as 
Chairman Tonko mentioned, the American Society of Civil 
Engineers just last year gave our Nation's water infrastructure 
a C-minus grade, and that is simply unacceptable for a Nation 
as prosperous our ours.
    Fortunately, last November this Congress acted by passing 
the bipartisan infrastructure law, which included $30 billion 
to strengthen and rebuild our drinking water infrastructure, 
and this is the single largest Federal investment in our 
drinking water infrastructure in our Nation's history.
    Specifically, the law provides over $11 billion to bolster 
the Drinking Water State Revolving Fund, our main funding 
mechanism for drinking water projects, and the Drinking Water 
SRF provides flexibility to States to address pressing drinking 
water challenges. It is imperative that we leverage this 
flexibility to ensure that we are lifting up communities.
    And while the SRF has been a critical lifeline, there are 
many small, rural, and underserved communities that face 
barriers to access this Federal funding source. Our ranking 
member mentioned that, and those communities, which often have 
the greatest needs, will benefit from additional resources and 
assistance, and we should ensure that they can tap into them.
    Now, the bipartisan infrastructure law also includes $15 
billion to help accelerate the inventory and removal of lead 
service lines, which is one of my priorities as chairman. 
Earlier this year, I was pleased to see Newark, and we have 
Director Adeem here representing Newark in my home State. They 
completed their efforts to replace all of the lead service 
lines.
    But millions of other Americans in other places are being 
exposed to lead in drinking water through lead service lines, 
and this is extremely troubling considering that there is no 
safe lead exposure level.
    All of these lead pipes must be replaced, and this funding 
will provide a huge boost in our efforts to finally address the 
longstanding issue of lead in drinking water.
    The law also allocates $9 billion to remove dangerous PFAS 
chemicals, also known as ``forever chemicals,'' from drinking 
water, and this funding will help water systems cleanup PFAS 
contamination that is becoming more prevalent and is linked to 
adverse health effects.
    This investment will accelerate current infrastructure 
projects and kickstart new, often costly projects.
    So with the bipartisan infrastructure law, we are not only 
modernizing our infrastructure in a more resilient way for the 
future, but we are also strengthening our local economies.
    With provisions to expand the use of American iron and 
steel and prevailing wage protections, the bipartisan 
infrastructure law will help create good paying jobs across 
industries and bolster domestic manufacturing.
    But as I said, clean, safe drinking water is, in my 
opinion, a fundamental right, and the bipartisan infrastructure 
law provides our Nation with the necessary resources to take a 
long overdue step toward making safe drinking water a reality 
for all, including disadvantaged communities that have been 
disproportionately impacted by environmental contamination.
    I just wanted to take a minute to say that I appreciate all 
our witnesses today, but especially Newark's Water and Sewer 
Utilities Director Kareem Adeem. Thanks to his leadership, 
along with the mayor, Mayor Baraka, and Governor Murphy and our 
congressional delegation, Newark successfully completed the 
replacement of all of its lead lines earlier this year.
    And I really want to commend you for your work, Director 
Adeem. Mayor Baraka made this a major point that he wanted to 
do this, and you know, Congress helped in other ways. We 
actually had to redirect some of the funds from the Clean Water 
Act with legislation that I had introduced in the House and 
Senator Booker championed in the Senate and Donald Payne also. 
I have to mention Congressman Payne who represents Newark.
    But I still think it was amazing that you did this so 
quickly, that you were able to do it so quickly. It really was 
amazing.
    So thank you again and thank you for being here.
    We have an incredible opportunity to build resilience and 
invest in the future of communities. We also have an 
opportunity to continue to work on a bipartisan basis to ensure 
these funds have a long-lasting impact, which is why Chairman 
Tonko is having this hearing today.
    And while this funding is a critical step in closing the 
resource gap for drinking water, there is a lot more we can do 
and should do to ensure that every person can trust the water 
that is coming out of the tap.
    So thank you, again, Chairman Tonko. This is a very 
important hearing.
    I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pallone follows:]

             Prepared Statement of Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr.
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman yields back.
    Now the Chair will recognize Representative Buddy Carter of 
Georgia, who is speaking on behalf of Mrs. Rodgers, the ranking 
member of the full committee.
    Mr. Carter, you are recognized for 5 minutes please.


   OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. EARL LEROY ``BUDDY'' CARTER, A 
      REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF GEORGIA


    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank all of our 
witnesses for being here. We appreciate your attendance very 
much.
    From Day One I urged for there to be transparency on the 
massive amounts of money this Congress has been providing to 
the executive branch. Record government spending is fueling 
inflation, and it is out of control.
    From the gas pump to the grocery store, it is making it 
harder for people to pay for basic expenses to get by. We just 
learned that funds from the Democrats', quote, ``American 
Rescue Plan,'' have been spent on things like a hotel, a 
ballpark, and ski slopes.
    This is the kind of waste we warned about when Democrats 
acted alone to spend $2 trillion. Where is the accountability 
we have been asking for?
    Whether it is over this $2 trillion and inflationary 
spending or over this Senate infrastructure law, there must be 
proper oversight over how we spend people's hard-earned 
taxpayer dollars.
    American families who are struggling to afford gas, cars, 
food, new clothes, and heating their homes, they deserve the 
certainty that their duly elected representatives are leading 
to ensure funds are not wasted or abused. We should all be 
asking if the Federal Government wants to spend more money, can 
the American people afford it.
    Today is an important opportunity for this subcommittee to 
review and conduct oversight over the Safe Drinking Water Act 
provisions in the Senate infrastructure law, and I appreciate 
the chairman scheduling it.
    That being said, we are missing an important witness, the 
Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA is responsible for 
implementing the law we are discussing today. I hope, Mr. 
Chairman, that you will work with us to invite EPA to testify 
about its implementation of the $35 billion in funding for safe 
drinking water programs.
    So let me be clear. My stated concerns with the drinking 
water provisions in the Senate infrastructure law are about 
transparency and accountability. Without question, I want our 
communities to have safe drinking water.
    I was a mayor one time. I get it. I understand how 
important it is. Making that water safe though costs money. 
Some communities, because it requires a monetary investment, 
again, I get it and I understand. I was a mayor of a growing 
city.
    Because it requires a monetary investment, they need help 
from the Federal Government, but simply throwing money at 
drinking water challenges using a Federal one-size-fits-all 
approach is no way to solve the problems that many communities 
face.
    My concerns start with the large amounts of spending, but 
also include whether EPA is using this bill as an excuse to 
overtake drinking water program management, spending 
flexibility, and utility operations.
    These are all areas that traditionally fall to local 
governments and to the States. A Federal takeover would be 
unprecedented and troubling.
    My concerns with the Safe Drinking Water provisions in the 
Senate infrastructure bill go further. First, whether they 
impact the law's mandates on required spending. Promoting 
purchasing power for communities should be our highest aim.
    If we swallow up these goals with requirements that strain 
the ability to complete necessary projects, we do both 
taxpayers and those serving communities a disservice.
    Second, how will this additional new funding and EPA's 
guidance affect existing State Drinking Water Revolving Funds?
    And will any of the changes relate only to the Senate 
infrastructure funding or would they have long-term impacts to 
project prioritization on the State Revolving Fund?
    Third, will this law improve cybersecurity at drinking 
water plants or does it just increase the burdens on utilities 
and strain their resources?
    Fourth, there are questions about the lead service line 
replacement provisions. For example, do EPA and the States know 
where the lead service lines are?
    And will the agency ensure that millionaires do not benefit 
under this program?
    Finally, there are concerns about rural communities' role 
in the funding. Will rural communities have access to funding 
and technical assistance or could they fall just outside of the 
definition of disadvantaged communities?
    The Senate infrastructure law has both substantial 
authorizing and appropriations provisions. So we have a lot to 
cover today. Again, I hope in a future hearing the EPA is here 
to formally answer questions about its use of $35 billion in 
additional funding.
    This is important to ensure accountability and understand 
any changes that may be needed in the law.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I look forward to our 
conversation today, and I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Carter follows:]

         Prepared Statement of Hon. Earl Leroy ``Buddy'' Carter
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair reminds members that, pursuant to committee 
rules, all Members' written opening statements shall be made 
part of the record.
    I now introduce the witnesses for today's hearing. We have 
Mr. Eric Olson, Senior Strategic Director for Health and Food, 
Natural Resources Defense Council.
    We have Ms. Lori Mathieu, Public Health Branch Chief of the 
Environmental Health and Drinking Water Branch of Connecticut's 
Department of Public Health, and President of the Association 
of Drinking Water Administrators.
    Mr. Kareem Adeem, Director of Water and Sewer Utilities for 
the city of Newark, New Jersey.
    And on Zoom, we have Mr. Richard Diaz, Midwest Regional 
Field Organizer for the BlueGreen Alliance.
    And then finally, Mr. Jim McGoff, Chief Operating Officer 
and Director of Environmental Programs, Indiana Finance 
Authority, on behalf of the Council of Infrastructure Financing 
Authorities.
    We welcome each and every one of you here today and on 
Zoom.
    And at this time the Chair will recognize each witness for 
5 minutes to provide the opening statements.
    Before we begin, I would like to explain the lighting 
system. In front of our witnesses is a series of lights. The 
light will initially be green. The light will turn yellow when 
you have 1-minute remaining. Please begin to wrap up your 
testimony at that point. The light will turn red when your time 
expires.
    Since we have witnesses appearing virtually, I need to ask 
my colleagues in the hearing room to mute themselves whenever 
they are not directly speaking during their Q&A portion so that 
we can, indeed, clearly hear the witnesses' responses.
    So with that, we now recognize Mr. Olson for 5 minutes 
please to provide your opening statement, and again, welcome.


   STATEMENT OF ERIK D. OLSON, SENIOR STRATEGIC DIRECTOR FOR 
  HEALTH AND FOOD, NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNSEL; LORI J. 
 MATHIEU, PUBLIC HEALTH BRANCH CHIEF, ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH AND 
DRINKING WATER BRANCH, CONNECTICUT DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH, 
 AND PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF DRINKING WATER ADMINISTRATORS; 
 KAREEM ADEEM, DIRECTOR OF WATER AND SEWER UTILITIES, THE CITY 
  OF NEWARK, NEW JERSEY; RICHARD DIAZ, MIDWEST REGIONAL FIELD 
   ORGANIZER, BLUEGREEN ALLIANCE; AND JAMES P. McGOFF, CHIEF 
   OPERATING OFFICER AND DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROGRAMS, 
      INDIANA FINANCE AUTHORITY, ON BEHALF OF COUNCIL OF 
              INFRASTRUCTURE FINANCING AUTHORITIES



                   STATEMENT OF ERIK D. OLSON


    Mr. Olson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank Ranking 
Member McKinley and all members of the committee.
    I am Eric Olson with NRDC, Natural Resources Defense 
Counsel.
    And I wanted to emphasize that this bipartisan 
infrastructure law--I will call it ``the bill''--really makes 
historic investments, and I appreciate the bipartisan nature of 
the investments that are being made and appreciate the ranking 
member's vote in favor of this as well as many other members of 
this committee.
    It is an historic investment that is going to yield 
benefits for a long time.
    One issue that we talked about, heard about a little bit 
already, is the $15 billion that are going to be invested to 
remove these lead pipes, which is basically like drinking water 
out of a lead straw. We do not want to be doing that.
    And the good news is that that investment is going to take 
a big bite out of this problem. But $15 billion is about a 
third of what we need. The reconciliation bill that this body 
passed some time ago would add an additional $10 billion that 
is really urgently needed money in addition.
    And I wanted to point out that this historic investment 
really is something that is broadly supported. All the polling 
shows that about 90 percent of the public supports investing in 
things like pulling out all of these lead pipes.
    So this is something that is both good sense from a public 
support standpoint, but also of course from a public health 
standpoint.
    One thing that we really need to do, as several members 
have already mention, is make sure that this money is being 
targeted well to the disadvantaged communities that need it.
    And I will emphasize that the States get the vast majority 
of this money. This is not going to be administered by the 
Federal Government in most cases. Most of that money is going 
out to each individual State.
    The State defines what a disadvantaged community is, and 
the State is going to be allocating the money.
    So we need to make sure that that money is being targeted 
where it is needed most, be it a rural community that has 
urgent need or be it a large city that may have a pocket of 
low-income people that really need to get that help.
    The bill also includes, as has been mentioned by a couple 
of members, $9 billion to address these so-called PFAS, the 
chemicals that have been around for now many years and are just 
starting to show up in West Virginia, New York, many other 
States. North Carolina has a severe problem with PFAS 
contamination. Basically every State has this.
    We believe that it is going to be a top priority to make 
sure that is addressed.
    In addition, there are a lot of good jobs that are going to 
be created. You are going to hear from Mr. Adeem in Newark who 
has created a lot of jobs of local people who are trained by a 
local union.
    These jobs are very well paying. We hope that they are 
going to be permanent. I cite in my testimony a study that 
found over 560,000 job-years that are going to be created just 
by pulling out the lead pipes. Those are going to be good 
paying jobs under this infrastructure legislation. It is 
crucial that that go forward.
    But I will point out that industry estimates are that the 
total cost is going to be a trillion dollars for all of our 
drinking water infrastructure fixes. That is a big investment. 
We are going to need more than has already been put on the 
table. We have got an historic investment, but there is a lot 
more needed.
    Nine to 12 million lead service lines still in the ground; 
lead in schools, which this legislation did not quite tackle. 
There are widespread PFAS contamination problems, and 30 
million people are served by systems that are in violation of 
the Safe Drinking Water Act. All of that needs to be addressed.
    In addition, we have got some pockets in Appalachia and 
Texas border communities, low income, deep South
    [inaudible]. We need to address this.
    [Audio malfunction.]
    We also need to tackle the fact that with climate change 
there are going to be more and more challenges that are going 
to be coming. Texas' recent experience with losing huge swaths 
of the State and of Mississippi with no water and now power as 
a result of a storm. That is an initial indication that we have 
got this huge problem.
    So we envision a future where every person in America gets 
safe, sufficient, and affordable drinking water. That is 
something that can be done. Newark is showing that it can be 
done in a big city. It can be done in rural communities. That 
is something that we ought to tackle and make the investments 
to make happen.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Olson follows:]
  [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Tonko. Thank you, Mr. Olson.
    And we now recognize Ms. Mathieu.
    Ms. Mathieu, you are recognized for 5 minutes please, and 
the mike is yours.


                  STATEMENT OF LORI J. MATHIEU


    Ms. Mathieu. Good morning, Subcommittee Chairman Tonko, 
Ranking Member McKinley, members of the subcommittee.
    My name is Lori Mathieu, and I am the President of the 
Association of State Drinking Water Administrators, known as 
ASDWA. We have 57 members, and we include all 50 States and 
five territorial programs, a Navajo Nation, and the District of 
Columbia.
    Thank you for this incredible opportunity to appear before 
you and the subcommittee to discuss effective and efficient 
implementation of the bipartisan infrastructure law for safe 
drinking water.
    A collaborative partnership is always and has always been 
needed since the beginning of time with the Safe Drinking Water 
Act between all of us, States, tribes, territories, and the 
Federal Government.
    First of all, first and foremost, we collectively and 
sincerely wish to say thank you for this funding. This is a 
substantial increase in funding under the bill, and an 
investment in safe drinking water and public health.
    ASDWA members have compliance oversight and enforcement 
authority or primacy of the State Drinking Water Act. Our 
members and their staff are the scientists and the engineers on 
the front lines every day implementing the Act and executing 
the laws that you pass.
    We provide technical assistance and oversight of drinking 
water systems. That is our job every single day.
    I am also, as you mentioned, the Public Health Branch Chief 
of the Environmental Health and Drinking Water Branch of the 
Connecticut Department of Public Health. I have been a public 
health official for over 34 years.
    I have received statewide programs and addressed primacy 
and the Safe Drinking Water Act and regulation of drinking 
water systems, also the SRF Program. We also have a PFAS and 
Emerging Contaminants Program, Certified Operator Program. We 
started a new Climate Change and Public Health Program.
    We also oversee a number of lead programs that work to 
prevent lead exposure.
    Today I will discuss ASDWA's perspective on implementation 
of the bill. My testimony has three basic themes.
    We want to focus on getting the lead out everywhere. ASDWA 
support the removal of all lead service lines across the 
country from the water main to where the lead service line goes 
to the building wall.
    The development of the inventories is only the first step. 
Then we need to move toward removal. ASDWA requests that 
Congress consider providing for additional subsidization up to 
possibly 100 percent loan forgiveness for lead service line 
replacements.
    In Connecticut, Governor Lemont has proposed Bill 5045, 
which focuses on childhood lead poisoning, and we are working 
to merge all efforts to reduce lead exposure.
    Flexibility and ease in bill implementation are critical to 
achieving the goal of equity and helping systems and 
communities that need the funding the most.
    As stated in EPA's recent implementation bill memo from 
Radhika Fox, States are responsible for defining disadvantaged 
communities, taking into account local conditions.
    In Connecticut and in many States, we are currently working 
with our leadership to right now enhance our focus on 
communities that need the funding the most, with a focus on 
health equity.
    Streamline the SRF Programs, the application process. 
States and EPA need to work together to make applying for the 
bill funds and the SRF Programs as simple and as easy as 
possible, while ensuring the requirements are addressed.
    Let's work together to develop waivers. ASDWA recommends 
the development of waivers in limited circumstances for the 
requirements of Buy America, Build America, and the Davis-Bacon 
Acts. Make funds simpler to obtain for those most in need.
    Sustainability, durability, and longevity. Public water 
systems that receive bill funding need to be durable, 
resilient, and have longevity. While the bill funding is 
substantial, we need the public water systems that use these 
funds to be able to appropriately operate and maintain their 
infrastructure. Being resilient into the future is important.
    There are over 124,000 small community public water systems 
in this country. Many lack long-term durability and to meet the 
challenges, the many challenges of the Safe Drinking Water Act.
    In Connecticut, we have 400 of those small systems in rural 
settings, many in disadvantaged communities. The DWSRF 
Programs, States, and EPA need to work together to ensure that 
the SRF loans are sustainable and have longevity with the split 
of loan versus principal forgiveness.
    The bill funding is only the first step to address the 
needs of our drinking water infrastructure.
    Workforce. The workforce needs a sustainable workforce 
through these bill funds and beyond, with a particular focus on 
engineers. It is incredibly hard to find engineers to take our 
jobs these days.
    Cybersecurity. We must never forget this issue, and we must 
recognize and address it, and it is a growing threat, and we 
want to work closely with EPA and our colleagues at the 
Department of Homeland Security.
    As we participate today in this hearing, ASDWA members are 
hard working on the implementation right now, and we are moving 
forward. In Connecticut right now, we have an open call for 
projects. This unprecedented funding will improve the country's 
infrastructure and public health, and we look forward to 
keeping Congress informed of our progress.
    And, again, thank you so much for this investment in safe 
drinking water and public health. It is greatly appreciated by 
our membership across the country and certainly within the 
State of Connecticut Department of Public Health, who I 
represent.
    Thank you very much.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Mathieu follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Tonko. You are most welcome. Thank you, Ms. Mathieu.
    And next we move to Mr. Adeem. Let me congratulate you and 
Newark on the efforts you have made and the achievement.
    So you are recognized, sir, for 5 minutes please.


                   STATEMENT OF KAREEM ADEEM


    Mr. Adeem. Thank you, Chairman Tonko, Ranking Member 
McKinley, and subcommittee members, and Congressman Pallone, 
New Jersey's own.
    Good morning. It is an honor to be here in front of this 
congressional Subcommittee on Environment and Climate Change, 
and I would especially like to just, you know, thank the 
Congress for the bipartisan infrastructure bill.
    This bill the city of Newark has seen firsthand how 
investment in infrastructure can impact communities. This 
investment is not just in our water and wastewater 
infrastructure. This bill is going to provide human capital 
infrastructure.
    You know, from employing local residents to come and work 
on union-scale jobs to remove lead service lines, to installing 
water mains, but also having Mom and Pop businesses take a part 
of what is going on in their community.
    Moreover, the bipartisan infrastructure bill is the most 
significant investment in the Nation in my lifetime. This bill 
is an essential step in the right direction to provide safe 
drinking water to everyone in America.
    In addition, the Federal Government will invest 
infrastructure upgrades and provide economic capital to 
communities, like others in New Jersey. I have witnessed the 
investment benefits in water infrastructure improvements 
firsthand and would like to just share a couple of them with 
the committee.
    I would like to talk about our lead service line 
replacement program. With the investment in human capital and 
the solution to a long-neglected problem, of the 200 million 
spent on repair and replacement of lead service lines, 70 
percent of that money stays in the local community, the city of 
Newark.
    In the State and the community when we hired local 
contractors, subcontractors and emphasized that they hire 
Newark residents from the union apprenticeship program that we 
created, and we created a unique program with assistance from 
the city's Department of Workforce Development, our State 
Department of Labor, and the Local Union 472.
    Collaboration made the success of this program appreciated. 
The apprenticeship program trained into a dozen of our 
residents the skills that they need for the future to earn 
middle-class salaries and get permanent jobs, permanent union 
jobs.
    As more cities replace lead service lines and start water 
infrastructure with Federal infrastructure money, our residents 
will find continued employment.
    In addition, we have women and minority-owned business find 
business opportunities for these projects, support in 
everything from engineering inspections to printing door 
hangers, to informing our residents in community meetings.
    One of tremendous successes is the joy of community being a 
part of the economic investment. They actually see it. A lot of 
times when we look at government doing a project, we look at 
our highway system. No disrespect to the highway system. We 
always see that construction lasts for decades.
    You can ride down the New Jersey Turnpike. We can ride down 
I-95, and we always see construction going on. However, no one 
takes a look at water and wastewater needs because it is a 
buried asset.
    This buried asset is only brought upon light when there is 
a crisis or we have a major flooding event or water main break 
where there is a lack of water, and everyone wants to know then 
that we need hurry up and fix our aging infrastructure.
    As fellow Congress members today pointed out, the American 
Society of Engineers gives is a C average. We are in the 
greatest country in the world. We should have an A. We should 
have an A for infrastructure.
    You know, investments in water are an investment in human 
capital because we are protecting valuable lives with drinking 
water.
    So I leave here today. I just want to say, one, engage with 
your State. A part of making these programs efficient and 
effective would be engaging with your State Revolving Loan 
Program early. Have meetings and conversation with them to 
understand the process, limits of funding, the terms, and 
construction long-term financing.
    Lead service lines are on the homeowner's property. We have 
to make sure we have special legislation in place to remove 
lead service lines by spending public money on private 
property.
    Schedule meetings with your local county and State 
officials. The infrastructure money is to be used to replace 
infrastructure, not to be held up by bureaucratic red tape in 
the permitting process.
    In Newark, most disadvantaged people rent. In other major 
cities, too. Seventy-four percent of our residents in the city 
of Newark are renters. We needed a council ordinance to pass to 
make sure we had the right of access to go on private and 
replace lead service lines.
    We understand that collaboration on the Federal, State, and 
local level will move projects forward, but we understand that 
there are emerging contaminants that also need to be addressed, 
and this infrastructure funding bill will provide the needed 
necessities to move it forward.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Adeem follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Tonko. Thank you, Mr. Adeem.
    And now we will move to our next witness who is joining us 
virtually. Mr. Diaz, you are recognized please for 5 minutes.


                   STATEMENT OF RICHARD DIAZ


    Mr. Diaz. Thank you, Chair Tonko, Ranking Member McKinley, 
and members of the committee.
    My name is Richard Diaz, and I am the Midwest Regional 
Field Organizer with the BlueGreen Alliance. We are a national 
partnership of labor unions and environmental organizations.
    Thank you for convening this hearing on upgrading America's 
drinking water infrastructure. As it was stated earlier, our 
Nation's drinking water infrastructure received a grade of a C-
minus by the American Society of Civil Engineers.
    The good news is that the $55 billion investment in water 
infrastructure within the bipartisan infrastructure law is the 
largest Federal investment we have ever seen in our water 
systems, and it is a significant down payment on the $434 
billion investment gap identified in the ASCE's 2021 
infrastructure report card.
    Fifteen of that $55 billion investment will be to fund the 
replacement of lead service lines. There is no safe level of 
lead exposure. Communities of color and low-income communities 
often bear the brunt of the hazard of lead water contamination.
    Eliminating lead exposure in our water systems cannot only 
keep communities healthy, but also create good paying jobs and 
boost local economies across the country, particularly if 
impacted communities are hired to do this work.
    An analysis by the BlueGreen Alliance found that the $15 
billion investment for lead service line replacement would 
result in the creation of about 200,000 jobs over ten years. 
Those same investments made by the bill will greatly benefit 
the construction industry.
    For example, plumbing, pipefitting, and steam-fitting all 
have an industry that currently employs about 300,000 workers, 
and there is expected to be a job growth of about 16 percent 
through 2026. This investment will be a massive job creator for 
American manufacturing thanks to strong domestic procurement 
and prevailing wage provisions.
    According to the Alliance for American Manufacturing, Buy 
America provisions lead to 33 percent increase in manufacturing 
jobs per dollar of public spending.
    At McLean Ductile Pipe in Ohio, members of the United Steel 
Workers Local 7014 produced ductile iron pipe used in water 
infrastructure. Buy America helps keep this facility open and 
provides a foundation for more good union jobs in the decades 
to come.
    We also have to make sure that these are not just good jobs 
but accessible jobs. This means supporting and growing pathways 
into good union water sector jobs for women and workers of 
color historically underrepresented.
    Provisions needed to ensure these jobs are good and 
accessible include registered apprenticeships, free 
apprenticeship programs, and other union affiliated training 
programs as well as project labor agreements, community 
workforce agreements, and community benefits agreements.
    The bill also includes a number of changes that will help 
direct funding to communities that need it most. The 
requirement that 49 percent at least of that funding be 
distributed as grants or forgivable loans.
    This will be help for people like Ms. Ledora Meadows from 
my hometown of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. She is someone who has 
been in the same house for over four decades in a neighborhood 
with a median income level that is well below the poverty line, 
and she is someone who is taking care of many children in the 
neighborhood, some of those lead poisoned children, and she has 
decided to get her lead service line replaced.
    Trying to protect her family from lead exposure, Ms. Ledora 
ended up with a bill of more than $1,000, and that is $1,000 
she does not have.
    Resources in the bill will help families like Ms. Ledora's, 
but it will be crucial for the EPA to provide technical 
assistance for communities applying for funds to ensure that 
disadvantaged communities benefit equitably from these 
investments.
    The bill's funding will help rebuild our Nation's water 
infrastructure and will help protect Americans from the 
irreversible damage of lead poisoning. We will save billions of 
dollars that would have been spent on medical treatments, 
special education, crime and juvenile delinquency caring for 
lead poisoned individuals.
    We also save billions of dollars in treated water that is 
lost from water main breaks and leaks. This translates into 
benefits for the environment and for all rural, urban, and 
suburban communities, and we do it while creating high quality 
union jobs not only at construction job sites, but at 
manufacturing facilities down the supply chain.
    The bill's investment and continued investment in our water 
infrastructure is a win for our country.
    Thank you, again, for the opportunity to speak today.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Diaz follows:]
   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
   
    Mr. Tonko. You are most welcome, Mr. Diaz, and thank you 
for your participation.
    And finally we turn to Mr. McGoff, who is recognized now 
for 5 minutes please.


                  STATEMENT OF JAMES P. McGOFF


    Mr. McGoff. Thank you, Chair Tonko, Ranking Member 
McKinley, Chair Pallone, Ranking Member Rodgers, and members of 
the subcommittee.
    My name is Jim McGoff, and I am the Director of 
Environmental Program for the Indiana Finance Authority. I am 
testifying today on behalf of the Council of Infrastructure 
Financing Authorities, which represents the Clean Water and 
Drinking Water Revolving Funds.
    I would like to begin my testimony by taking this 
opportunity to personally thank you and the other Members of 
Congress for trusting and empowering the State Drinking Water 
SRF Programs with the financial resources to make meaningful 
investments in our Nation's drinking water infrastructure.
    I know the success of our programs is well documented and 
included in my written testimony. So I will get right to the 
purpose of this hearing.
    I visit today with a simple request. Please consider 
expanding our ability to quickly and effectively deploy the 
historic funding in the bipartisan infrastructure bill. My 
comments will focus on the SRF's ability to utilize the funding 
for emerging contaminants and lead service line replacement in 
a way that achieves our shared goal of protecting the health of 
the American people.
    I can confidently say the SRF Programs are experts in 
providing low-cost financial assistance for every community's 
drinking water needs. Congress was right to choose the SRF 
Programs when looking for the appropriate vehicle to address 
emerging contaminants and lead service line removal.
    However, to be able to achieve the intent of the law, this 
targeted funding requires more flexible and innovative approach 
than the base program that we currently monitor. For example, 
firefighting foam. It is currently stored at every firefighting 
station and usually contains PFAS or PFOA.
    We believe the intent of the legislation included the 
ability of States to inventory, collect, and properly dispose 
of these toxic chemicals.
    My apologies of being from Indiana. I feel compelled to 
make at least one basketball analogy here. This is a layup.
    Of course, we should be able to use this funding to 
eliminate that public health threat. However, because we would 
not be providing financial assistance directly to a drinking 
water utility, we have been informed that we are not permitted 
to use the emerging contaminant funding you have provided to 
address this critical problem.
    Another example, PFAS and PFOA and other contaminants that 
would qualify as emerging can be found in our soils and other 
areas not associated with the drinking water utility. Again, 
the SRF Programs cannot go into these urban neighborhoods 
desperately needing the financial assistance to address known 
and identified emerging contaminants with this funding unless 
they are somehow associated with a drinking water utility.
    EPA has provided flexibility in the past, primarily within 
the Clean Water SRF Program, and however, we would hope with 
your urging and/or modifications to the bill, EPA would do the 
same with the Drinking Water SRF Program.
    For example, an SRF Program has used its Clean Water SRF 
Funds to fund energy efficiency projects with EPA approval 
under the theory that energy efficient additions to homes would 
reduce energy use, which would reduce energy production, which 
would reduce stack emissions, which would reduce particulate 
matter leaving the stack and falling into a receiving stream.
    Arguably, there is a greater threat of a container of 
firefighting foam failing and leaking in the basement of a 
firehouse or the more likely scenario of it being used and then 
flowing into a receiving stream or well, and that may be the 
town's only source of drinking water.
    I will now turn my attention to our ability to address lead 
service lines. Federal law requires that we provide EPA with a 
list of projects we intend to fund before we can draw down the 
first dollar. So the funds you have made available to the 
States cannot be used unless and until we provide EPA with a 
list of projects that will be funded.
    Therein lies the problem. Utilities in many States have not 
begun the process of developing an inventory of lead service 
lines. It would be logical to think we would be able to use 
these funds to generate a statewide inventory and then begin 
the process of removing the lead lines.
    However, we are limited to only using a fraction of the 
funds for this purpose. Funds referred to as set-asides are 
generally reserved for program administrative expenses or 
State-specific initiatives maybe eligible, but in the aggregate 
would not be sufficient to adequately address the necessary 
inventories.
    Logic suggests and we believe your intent would be that the 
lead service line funding be eligible for use in all things 
associated with the removal or at the very least the first and 
second year of funding be eligible for inventories, believing 
that once inventoried the later years' funding could be 
targeted for their removal.
    We do not believe wholesale changes in the legislation are 
necessary. It is good legislation, but minor revisions are 
needed to ensure we can achieve its goals. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. McGoff follows:]
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    Mr. Tonko. Mr. McGoff, thank you.
    And thank you to all of our witnesses again for your 
participation here today.
    That concludes your opening statements, and we now will 
move to member questions, and I will start by recognizing 
myself for 5 minutes.
    Now, we often hear about water systems' needs in big 
numbers, $472 billion often quoted as that needed for the next 
20 years. Mr. Olson, can you please help us contextualize these 
needs?
    What does it mean today for American families, for their 
health, for their pocketbooks that water systems require nearly 
half a trillion in investment?
    Mr. Olson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I will say that that is even a lowball estimate according 
to the American Waterworks Association, which estimates it 
could be a trillion dollars.
    I think what it means is there are so many communities 
around the country, as we have heard, where this is a buried 
asset. Most people do not know that they have problems with 
their drinking water until they do not have water if there is a 
water main break or they learn that they have lead 
contamination in their water or if they are in a rural 
community that they have serious contamination problems.
    So what it means to communities across the country is if we 
do not invest in these problems, I said in my testimony it is a 
lot like a decades old car that has not had a brake job or oil 
change in years.
    That is sort of what we are operating with in a lot of 
communities across the country is these water systems are 
starting to fall apart. They are not modernized. They are 
delivering in many cases water that is not up to snuff. It is 
especially true in lower income communities and in many rural 
communities that have real problems.
    So what it means to Americans is many of us are getting 
water that is not safe. Many of us are getting water that 
should be better even if it meets standards, and these kinds of 
investments from the bipartisan deal will take us a long way 
toward helping to fix the problem.
    Mr. Tonko. Thank you.
    And, Ms. Mathieu, I looked up Connecticut's latest SRF 
intended use plan. For a relatively small State, there were a 
lot of proposed projects.
    Can you discuss how far this new funding could go to 
addressing the State's infrastructure backlog?
    Ms. Mathieu. Excellent question. And thank you for looking 
up our intended use plan. I very much appreciate it. We are 
very proud of our SRF Program.
    So in our little State, we have 2,400 public water systems, 
2,400 in the little State of Connecticut. Two thousand of those 
are non-communities. There are about 725 that are formally 
eligible to apply for the SRFs.
    We have not used one word in here, but which is really 
important: aging infrastructure. It is prevalent. Our treatment 
systems, as Mr. Olson mentioned, a lot of our treatment plants 
need between 40 to $60 million in replacement funding.
    Many of even our larger municipal systems cannot afford 
that on their own. They need the subsidization. We have 
actually rebuilt a treatment plant at Groton, which serves 
about 80,000 people. They could not afford the $55 million 
price.
    We were able to pull together some State funding to help 
them with the affordability of that loan.
    We have many small systems in our State. We have 3.6 
million people. We have 148 really small towns, very rural 
towns.
    Many small systems struggle. Many of you mentioned the 
small system struggle. Many of you mentioned the small system 
problem.
    A small system to us in Connecticut is 25 people, literally 
15 service connections. Affordability is a serious problem, 
even taking on a loan. That is why one of the comments that we 
made was let's make the process as simple as possible. Taking 
out a loan is incredibly difficult. Even if you gave them 80 
percent subsidy, just to fill out the paperwork, so to make it 
simple and easy as possible.
    We like one of the ideas that has come out through EPA, and 
I think through the President himself, this idea of technical 
hubs. We want in. In our State of Connecticut, we have asked 
our EPA Boston people and headquarters staff. We would like a 
technical hub for Connecticut. We have enough systems and 
enough problems. We want a focused effort.
    We as regulators, we scare people when we show up. All 
right. Let's face it, right? Every time we show up, it is 
thousands of dollars because we are pointing out violations, as 
many violations that we identify.
    So to bring in a technical expert under a technical hub 
idea that is funded directly by EPA to help, I would love to 
have that. Three to 400 systems, to sit down and help apply for 
an SRF loan; to help identify your lead service line 
inventories.
    Many of them do not even understand how to put that 
together. So to provide direct technical assistance to the 
communities that need it the most in these three to 400 really 
small systems would be really very important to be able to 
spend that money.
    Mr. Tonko. Well, thank you very much.
    OK. We now recognize Mr. McKinley, subcommittee ranking 
member, for 5 minutes of questions, please.
    Mr. McKinley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I tried to say in my opening remarks I believe there is a 
nexus between States that have low per capita income and the 
ranking with your infrastructure. Particularly, the example 
would be Mississippi and West Virginia.
    So I want to keep that in consideration as we go with this.
    Now, let me go to Mr. Olson. You made a comment about lead 
water pipes and identifying. I really want to give a shout-out 
to Clarksburg Water Department. What they did, they found out 
they had a problem, and they have been actively going after 
that. And they have replaced most of those now. And they are 
identifying the water lines, the lead pipes all throughout the 
district for that. So we are making a move on that.
    Ms. Mathieu, you made an interesting remark. You said you 
are finding a shortage of engineers to do this. I would say to 
you we have got a shortage of engineers in Washington.
    I am just one of two licensed engineers in Congress and 
think about it. Here we are dealing with a massive 
infrastructure bill, and as we say, there are two licensed 
engineers, but there are 242 attorneys.
    So the question is who do we want addressing our 
infrastructure, and I will end up on that. We will go back.
    But just last week I had a meeting with a water group, and 
they were telling me the lack of oversight. The concern they 
are having is the massive increase in water pipes and copper 
and fire hydrants and all.
    As a matter of fact, what they showed me was because of 
this lack of oversight and this control that we have now put 
in, eight-inch PVC pipe, kind of the heartbeat of water 
systems, it has already increased our suppliers 210 percent 
over the last three years, 210 percent.
    The same thing with six-inch; 157 percent increase. Fire 
hydrants, 30-some percent increase in just two years.
    So I am hoping that we can develop some kind of oversight 
with this, our chairman and our committee, to be able to 
control this because our communities are not going to be able 
to meet the infrastructure if we are faced with this kind of 
supply cost that is facing us.
    So let me go to two quick questions with Mr. McGoff, if I 
could with you.
    States each have their own idea of what a disadvantaged 
community is and whether it is urban or rural, and so that both 
of these communities, both rural and urban communities, are on 
a level playing field.
    How can we ensure that the population and needs are part of 
the equal consideration if we go ahead?
    Need is huge for us in areas in West Virginia and 
Mississippi and others that are struggling now to do this. How 
can we do that?
    How can we make sure that need is also included?
    Mr. McGoff. Thank you for the question.
    And the SRF Programs have been identifying and getting or 
targeting disadvantaged communities for years. So we are well 
equipped so each State has the ability and the flexibility to 
tailor their definitions of disadvantaged communities to fit 
their State need.
    For example, in Indiana we have both urban and very rural 
communities. Many of the rural communities are very much like 
what you have described in some of the Southern States.
    And so our disadvantaged community definition recognizes 
very low median household income, high user rates, and we 
target our grant funding that we have available or forgivable 
loan funding that we have available to those communities.
    And the communities that can afford a standard interest 
rate, that is where we program those loans to.
    Mr. McKinley. Thank you.
    Ms. Mathieu, last year and then prior to the infrastructure 
bill being passed, this committee had hearings on drinking 
water, but primarily over leaking pipes and breaks. And 
according to the American Water Association when they 
testified, they said that we are probably losing 30 to 40 
percent of all the water treated because of leaks and breaks.
    So how will this legislation start to address that so that 
we can be more efficient in our systems?
    Ms. Mathieu. Thank you for question.
    It is an important one when you lose 30 percent of your 
product that you spend a lot of money producing. It is a shame.
    So aging infrastructure is a real problem. Water main 
replacement has always been a big part of the SRF Programs, and 
I hope that it will continue. Some of our water mains, if you 
see the water main that runs right on Capital Avenue on the 
city of Hartford, it is 100 years old.
    And what is interesting is they say, well, we have got 
another 20 years on that pipe. It is good.
    So we are in the northeastern part of the country. We have 
a lot of aging infrastructure. My colleague from New Jersey, 
the pipes are old, systems are old.
    We need the investment, and I know that one thing in 
Connecticut, our intended use plan or last call for projects, 
we had over 120 project requests totaling over $520 million in 
requests.
    We believe on this most recent call for projects, we will 
have over $800 million in requests for a little State of 
Connecticut.
    We also have 12 lead service line removal projects totaling 
asking for over $134 million. A 1-percent State like we are in 
Connecticut for the SRFs, we are receiving in the bill $150 
million over five years.
    Mr. McKinley. Thank you.
    I have gone over my time. I yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. That is fine. Engineers love that.
    The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes Chairman Pallone of the full 
committee for 5 minutes to ask questions please.
    Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Chairman Tonko.
    I wanted to start with Ms. Mathieu. We have talked a lot 
about the need to replace lead service lines, cleaning up PFAS, 
but all that can be very costly, right?
    So in a City like Newark, you know, they struggled to get 
the funding, right? I mean they did between the State and the 
Federal Government.
    So I just wanted to ask basically about resources, Ms. 
Mathieu. Is sustained and robust Federal investment like that 
provided by the BIF critical to helping water systems address 
these public health challenges or would we have just gotten the 
job done just as well using the incremental annual funding 
approach that we had until the bipartisan bill came along?
    Ms. Mathieu. That is a very good question. Thank you for 
that.
    This infusion of funding will significantly invest in our 
cities in their aging infrastructure across the country, as 
well as helping the smallest systems that need the help the 
most.
    In our most rural communities, they struggle just to pull 
water samples and to meet the timeframes of the Safe Drinking 
Water Act. This funding will help them and these technical 
assistance helps in our increased ability at the State level.
    We anticipate and are hopeful to hire additional engineers 
to get the work done. We would love those professional 
engineers to take our jobs. But we have a hard time bringing 
engineers on. For whatever reason, there does not seem to be 
many coming to the table.
    But with this additional funding, it gives our State and 
other States across the country an incredible ability to change 
the way we have been investing in public health and drinking 
water.
    Our aging infrastructure in our State alone, again, the 
needs are high, about $800 million, we believe, and we know 
that we cannot afford that alone.
    So my colleague had mentioned Mississippi. I know my 
colleague well, Bill Moody, in the State of Mississippi, and we 
just completed a nice week together during our member meeting, 
and he said, ``Lori, you know, when we invest this money in 
these small systems and any system, we have to make sure those 
systems are resilient for the future.''
    We see this as an investment in the future, and again, we 
cannot thank you enough for this investment in our drinking 
water.
    As Mr. Adeem said, these are not--I am going to say it--
these are not the sexiest things, right, because they are all 
buried. People do not know. People do not see the pipes in the 
ground. People do not know about the work that you all do to 
supply drinking water every day all day.
    They see the roads and the bridges. But to provide this 
level of money to safe drinking water and public health 
protection is tremendous, and we, again, we are thrilled with 
it and want to get the work started.
    Mr. Pallone. Well, thank you.
    Let me go to Mr. Adeem. You talked, of course, about how 
there were a lot of jobs created and local jobs as a result of 
this major effort to replace all the service lines in Newark.
    Just tell me a little more about the benefits to the 
community you have witnessed as your city invested in this 
effort to replace the lead service lines.
    Mr. Adeem. Thank you, Congressman Pallone, Chairman 
Pallone.
    As we have seen in our community, the city of Newark, we 
engage our local residents into coming into an apprenticeship 
program with the local trade union. They had gotten an 
opportunity that they would never see, but we ``never see'' is 
always hard to get into a union skilled job. Unions always had 
these announcements. ``We are hiring.'' You see them in the 
papers, and there is a long line where it could be as much as 
five to 10,000 people trying to get 20 positions.
    In the city of Newark, because we knew we had an 
infrastructure project that was going to impact one local 
union, the Laborers Union for Local 472, we met with them early 
and with the State Department of Labor to make sure that we 
wanted to focus on putting Newark residents, right, those 
underprivileged residents that did not have the opportunity, 
men and women, Black and Brown, that may have not had an 
opportunity to be a part of the union, to get into the union.
    Immediately, we have seen the impact because not only were 
we doing the lead service line replacement work in the 
community. Residents that actually lived in the community had 
the opportunity to replace their own lead service line.
    So you are working on a job where you are replacing your 
own house, and the income that they received off those jobs, 
the middle-class salary, they were putting that money back into 
the community. They lived in the community. They were investing 
back into the community.
    I was on a job site, me and one of my colleagues and a 
former reporter, one early in the morning, and we had the 
street blocked off, and we were helping a lady bring her 
groceries into her house because the street was blocked off.
    And she saw her nephew out there. She said, ``Leave those 
gentlemen alone. They are working. Get away from them.''
    And he says, ``Auntie, I am working.''
    She said, ``You are not working with them. Leave them 
alone. Get out of the way.''
    And he says, ``No, I have been working. I went through the 
apprenticeship program, and I have been working for two 
months.''
    Just the smile on her face and his face to let his aunt 
know that he actually had a job, right, on a construction job, 
on a union scale job, and today that gentleman is working in 
Baltimore somewhere with one of the companies, Pinello Company, 
which is a New Jersey company, but it works around the Nation 
doing sewer replacement.
    So that is one impact that we see.
    Also it gives hope to the community. When we looked at 
small subcontractors, giving them the ability to bid or be a 
prime or a subcontractor on a government job, ushering the 
progress, not progress; ushering the steps and making the 
process easier for them to get in.
    So we set up and made sure they had MBEs and WMEs to be a 
part of a project that they would never have thought that they 
would have had the opportunity to.
    One night working with a construction company in the city 
of Newark, the valve blew off at the meter, and it damaged the 
hot water tank. We had a contractor that came to one of our 
community outreach meetings that was a four-person firm that 
did cleaning.
    They were able to come in at eight o'clock at night and 
clean that basement up, clean the water up, sanitize the 
basement, you know, do restoration, and you know, this lady had 
a $1,500 contractor come in and do restoration and cleanup with 
a small company, which led her later on to partner with another 
company.
    Mr. Tonko. Mr. Adeem. The time has expired. Thank you. A 
great story. Thank you so much for sharing that.
    The gentleman yields back.
    Next, we will recognize the gentleman from Alabama.
    Mr. Palmer, you are recognized for 5 minutes please.
    Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I thank the witnesses for participating, and to the 
subcommittee for holding this hearing.
    One of my concerns about what we are doing here is asking 
for funds, additional funds, when we just passed the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. And I am just 
wondering, and I guess this would be particularly for you, Mr. 
Adeem, has the city of Newark received funds from that bill we 
just passed yet?
    Mr. Adeem. No, sir.
    Mr. Palmer. Then why are we asking for more money when we 
have not even utilized the funds?
    Are you telling me that we do not have enough money in the 
bill we just passed, the 1.2 trillion?
    That is a yes or no.
    Mr. Adeem. No.
    Mr. Palmer. OK. What concerns me about this, Mr. Chairman 
and the witnesses, is who is exercising oversight over this.
    I understand that Mitch Landrieu, the former mayor of New 
Orleans, was named by the Biden administration as a 
coordinator, and I find that interesting considering the 
condition of infrastructure in New Orleans, particularly their 
roads and how sluggish or even inept they were in New Orleans 
in handling their infrastructure issues.
    And I just wonder if the needs, and there are needs out 
there for replacing water systems, are going to be met in a 
timely manner and in a most economically, fiscally responsible 
manner.
    Mr. McGoff, if you would like, you can respond to that.
    Mr. McGoff. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Palmer. Yes, sir what?
    Mr. McGoff. The question to disburse the funds in a 
responsible manner.
    Mr. Palmer. Yes. So you agree you have the same concerns 
about the dispersal of funds, that none of which have been 
disbursed yet and that the infrastructure that has been put in 
place by this administration for doing that, I think, raises 
some questions in my mind about how well this will be done and 
how quickly it will be done, considering that we have these 
needs and we have known about these needs for a long time.
    And I see Ms. Mathieu nodding in agreement. Would you like 
to comment on that?
    Ms. Mathieu. Yes, thank you. It is a good question.
    It is a lot of money to move fast and the SRF Programs have 
been around for 25 years under State oversight. That program in 
my State, which I have oversight of, has a lot of measures and 
metrics, and EPA I will guarantee you is on us constantly about 
a term known as ULO, unliquidated obligations.
    They are on us also about pace of the program, and I 
suspect they will be adding five or six more metrics on us soon 
that will tell us how quickly we have to move this money.
    The pressure to move the money is extensive. The timing of 
the lead and copper rule, the first phase, was really important 
to send the signal to our water industry that it is time to get 
moving, to get the lead out. That was an important move.
    Mr. Palmer. Figuratively as well as literally.
    Ms. Mathieu. Right. Because we needed that signal because 
it sends a message that this is real. Now the money is there. 
We need to move quickly.
    Am I concerned that the money will not move fast enough? 
Yes.
    Do we have the workforce to be able to move the money? That 
is a critical need. We need the engineers, the analysts, the 
financial analysts to be able to do this work.
    And my colleagues at ASDWA across the country are working 
hard on staffing plans, and again, workforce is a concern when 
it comes to this funding.
    But we are up to the task.
    Mr. Palmer. Well, you should also be concerned about the 
permitting and other issues and how qualified the people are 
who are acting in coordination positions, particularly in 
respect to the ones who are overseeing the entire project and 
are in getting this done.
    My big concern is with the inflation rate where it is right 
now, we are all talking about the price of a gallon of gas. We 
keep adding money to the money supply. We will be talking about 
the price of a gallon of milk.
    So it bothers me that we are having this discussion about 
needing more money when we have not spent the money we have, 
and the longer you delay, the more costly the project becomes.
    And like Mr. McKinley, I worked for two international 
engineering companies, and I understand a little bit about how 
long it takes to get things done and how you need to move 
through the permitting process, the design. All of that has to 
be done, and the longer we wait, the more expensive it is going 
to get.
    So, Mr. Chairman, it might be that this committee considers 
exercising some additional oversight in regard to the 
administration and the handling of these funds.
    With what, Mr. Chairman, thank you for your indulgence, and 
I yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the representative from the State 
of Illinois. The gentlelady from Illinois, Representative 
Schakowsky, is recognized for 5 minutes please.
    Ms. Schakowsky. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
    You know, over the last couple of years now we have been 
talking about lead in drinking water, in schools, throughout 
the State of Illinois, which happens to be No. 1 in the lead 
service lines.
    And we are very, very concerned about this effect 
particularly on the health of children, the long-term, 
irreversible brain consequences that can happen.
    And I know that in the bipartisan infrastructure bill, 
there is $15 billion, although I do remember when the President 
was talking about $45 billion, and I know that maybe yet we 
will still get something in legislation that passes.
    And I know that all states are going to need funding to 
address this lead service line issue, but I am very concerned 
that Illinois, it seems, is disproportionately not getting the 
amount of money. I do not know if the numbers did not come 
through as our having such a huge problem.
    I know that the Mayor if the city of Chicago is very 
concerned. We have had to turn off water faucets in so many of 
our schools right now because it is dangerous.
    So I wanted to ask Mr. Olson. Does the current State 
Revolving Fund consider the need for lead service line 
replacements?
    And is there a review of how States, individual States, are 
affected that could change the amount of funding that goes to 
States like Illinois?
    Mr. Olson. Thank you for the question. It is a very 
important one.
    As you mentioned there are $15 billion in the bipartisan 
infrastructure law that is supposed to be dedicated to 
replacing these lead pipes, and Congress did pass the America's 
Water Infrastructure Act in 2018 that says that each State and 
EPA are supposed to assess how many lead service lines they 
have and how much it is going to cost to replace.
    The disconnect is that it is not clear that that assessment 
is going to be done in time to affect how the money is 
allocated at least for the next fiscal year. We are very 
concerned about that and urge EPA to set that money aside, that 
$15 billion, and allocate it based on need and get that needs 
assessment done ASAP.
    We are hearing it might not be done this year even though 
it was supposed to be done this year. So we are hoping EPA will 
expedite and allocate that money based on need. It is really 
important for Illinois and important for a lot of other States 
that are represented in this room.
    New York has the same issue. Many other States have this 
issue.
    Ms. Schakowsky. Yes, we are proud of being No. 1 in some 
important areas, but not in having the most lead surface lines.
    Yes, I wanted to ask Mr. Diaz a question about your 
testimony. You stressed talking about jobs, and you were 
talking about some of the apprenticeship programs, actually 
pre-apprenticeship program that we need.
    And I am wondering if you could discuss further how pre-
apprenticeship programs could help build the trained workforce 
that we need for our clean water future.
    Mr. Diaz. Yes, thank you for that, Congresswoman, and that 
is a great question about how pre-apprenticeship programs--can 
you all hear me now?
    Ms. Schakowsky. Yes.
    Mr. Diaz. Well, thank you, Congresswoman, about how pre-
apprenticeship programs fit into the greater workforce 
development needs that we need to replace lead service lines.
    You know, speaking with the Laborers Union in my hometown 
in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, you know, they mention that pre-
apprenticeship programs, a/k/a apprenticeship program and 
pathways into apprenticeship programs are just so needed to 
fill the needs of operating engineers, laborers, and also 
plumbers that will be actually replacing these lead service 
lines.
    I see that I am over time. So I will yield from my 
response. I can definitely followup with some more information 
for you, Congresswoman.
    Ms. Schakowsky. I would like to hear that because I think 
the people that would be the most benefited, too, are those 
individuals who want good jobs, need good jobs, and need these 
pre-apprenticeship programs.
    So thank you.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentlelady yields back.
    Before we recognize the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Johnson, 
for 5 minutes, the ranker has asked to be recognized.
    Mr. McKinley. Mr. Chairman, during my testimony or 
questioning, I referenced the increased costs that are 
occurring in an infrastructure, particularly copper and PVC, 
waterline pipe.
    I would like the record that was prepared by the Parker 
Utility Board on Friday of last week, that that be entered into 
the record.
    Mr. Tonko. OK. All requests to enter materials into the 
record will be addressed at the end of the hearing. So we will 
take care of that.
    Mr. McKinley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Tonko. OK. The gentleman from Ohio is now recognized, 
Mr. Johnson, for 5 minutes please.
    Mr. Johnson. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    You know, drinking water State Revolving Funds are a good 
example of an effective Federal-State partnership, and I know 
these funds have helped finance beneficial projects in all of 
our districts. This is a good thing.
    But with the unprecedented huge infusion of cash from the 
recent infrastructure bill, it is important that we ensure 
proper oversight on where and for what these funds are now 
being used.
    Mr. McGoff, I appreciate your mentioning Ohio in your 
testimony with a great example on how these funds can be used 
for a wide variety of small and large projects.
    Looking at the 2022 project priority list in Ohio this 
year, in my district, the projects range from lead service line 
replacement in Guernsey County to a water tower replacement in 
Columbian County, all the way up to a major water treatment 
plant replacement in Washington County.
    With projects like these, it is clear this program needs to 
remain flexible to address the safe drinking water needs of the 
extremely wide range of communities in rural Appalachian, 
Eastern and Southeastern Ohio, but at the same time, we do not 
want to just throw enormous, unaccountable amounts of money at 
these problems without being thoughtful.
    Mr. McGoff, in your testimony you talked about missed 
opportunities, with the dangers of too much red tape in the 
form of special categories, and one-time-only funding streams 
with the example of lead service lines.
    So to you, Mr. McGoff, when will we know where all the lead 
service lines are?
    And what will it take in reality to replace all of these 
lead service lines?
    Mr. McGoff. A very good question, Congressman Johnson.
    And our testimony did target the need for assessment. There 
are some States that have the un-assessment. Newark, for an 
example of a city that has done a very good job of assessing 
their lead service lines, but for the most part, because the 
SRF Programs did not have the funding to direct toward 
assessment, many States are just getting started with that.
    And we think it is very important to assess to make sure 
that we are targeting the appropriate lead service lines to 
have them removed, and to have the flexibility in the funding 
to do the assessment we think is a necessary first step.
    Mr. Johnson. Well, obviously, replacing these lead service 
lines is an important thing to do. How important is it to 
appropriately set public expectations on this?
    Mr. McGoff. Very important because it is a process. I mean, 
you need to identify, assess, and then you need to turn the 
work into contracts, and so it will take some time.
    The lead service lines will not be removed in 2 years, 3 
years, 5 years. It will take some time and appropriate 
planning, too. Utilities should plan to do the lead service 
line removal when other projects are taking place, like a water 
main in the middle of the street is the ideal time to replace 
the lead service line.
    So proper planning is important to make sure the job is 
done right.
    Mr. Johnson. OK. You mentioned the difficulty of using 
subsidized loans, that that may not be ideal for lead service 
line replacements on private property.
    Is your organization concerned that State SRFs might not be 
able to use the funding given to them or that they might be 
tasked with programs where the costs well outweigh the 
benefits?
    And if you agree with that statement, what would be a 
better way to do it?
    Mr. McGoff. There is a concern because of the speed in 
which we need to deploy the funds. We are sitting here at now 
18 months. We need to apply for the funding in the first year, 
and we have to identify how that funding will be used in order 
to apply for it.
    So the speed is going to be quick, and communities, as is 
oftentimes the case, would prefer grant funding rather than 
loan funding. We in Indiana and many other States have been 
targeting lead service line replacement with loan funds. We 
have been trying to encourage cities and towns to take 
advantage of that, with zero percent loans, and we have been 
making some progress with that.
    But with the speed at which we are being expected to deploy 
the funds, the more favorable that funding, the better off or 
the more ability we will be able to meet the timelines afforded 
us.
    Mr. Johnson. All right. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes virtually Representative Sarbanes 
from the State of Maryland.
    Welcome, sir, and you have 5 minutes please.
    Mr. Sarbanes. Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for today's 
hearing, and I want to thank you for your ongoing commitment to 
addressing the issue of drinking water infrastructure. You have 
made it a priority for many years.
    In fact, you and I had the opportunity on your initiative 
to visit the Ashburton filtration plant in Baltimore a few 
years back, and I am grateful to the leadership that you have 
exercised in this arena. So I appreciate it.
    Obviously, this is a topic that affects every American 
every single day. When you turn on the tap, you want to know 
that clean water is coming out, that your family is safe, and 
that is why these infrastructure investments are so absolutely 
critical.
    We know that in communities where residents have a wide 
disparity of income levels, some residents can be perfectly 
satisfied with the safety and reliability of their well-
maintained water supply, while just a few blocks away their 
neighbors face a continuous struggle to access clean and safe 
water despite being part of the same larger water system.
    This situation is very prominent, particularly in urban 
areas such as Baltimore, where low-income residents have for 
years faced issues like lead contamination. It is a real 
problem in our city.
    And the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act will help 
address these problems by providing robust funding to the Clean 
Water State Revolving Fund, as we have discussed today, which 
provides these key low-interest loans to States for investments 
in water and sanitation infrastructure.
    Approximately half, 49 percent, of this amount will be 
distributed in the form of grants or forgivable loans and will 
be invested in disadvantaged communities, as you know, these 
communities which have historically borne the brunt of 
substandard water infrastructure.
    Mr. Adeem, in communities that have stratified income 
levels in a small geographic area, how important is it to 
ensure that water infrastructure resources like the SRF Program 
are available to the residents who need them most?
    Mr. Adeem. This is hugely important. We see this time and 
time again. You just spoke about Baltimore, but we see that 
these are communities, if they are not adequately addressed 
with their contaminants or funding to remediate a problem, it 
lasts for generations.
    Mr. Sarbanes. You know, by statute States are allowed to 
set their own definition for the disadvantaged communities that 
are eligible for the 49 percent of the SRF fund, and that 
offers some opportunity. That control over the definition can 
provide targeted assistance to areas that really need it.
    And EPA has provided guidance to States to update those 
definitions for the purposes of allocating these funds.
    Some States' current definitions of disadvantaged 
communities would omit urban communities like those I described 
earlier, where low-income neighborhoods are considered part of 
larger water systems that also contain more affluent 
neighborhoods.
    And so on average, they would be deemed not to be in need 
of this water infrastructure support. So that is a challenge 
that we have to address.
    Ms. Mathieu, in order to meet the required distribution of 
49 percent of the SRF allocation going to disadvantaged 
communities, is it likely States are going to have to update or 
redefine which communities qualify as eligible for these funds?
    Ms. Mathieu. Yes, thank you for the question. It is an 
important one.
    I can speak to our State, and in the offices today we are 
revising and looking at how we would revise the terminology to 
help the people that need it the most. To come up with a better 
definition of disadvantaged communities is important to us.
    During the time of COVID, for the last two years, as a 
health department, many of us have worked on COVID related 
issues. I myself went out to a number of vaccine clinics and 
other things, and I helped out where I could.
    But one thing that we found that was quite interesting is 
the terminology that the CDC utilizes. It is known as SVI, 
social vulnerability index. And this index is different than 
the way we have traditionally looked at distressed communities 
or defined them, you know, within the SRF Program.
    So we are looking at the metric and all metrics, frankly, 
of environmental justice, the EJ definitions, the social 
vulnerability definitions, our disadvantaged and distressed 
community definitions, and we are looking to better define 
where we could help the people that need it the most.
    So that work is ongoing, and from what I know of my 
colleagues in our association of ASDWA, is that every State is 
working on this right now to have a better definition.
    Mr. Sarbanes. Thank you very much. That is very helpful.
    Mr. Chairman, I think this just shines a bright light on 
how we have got to make sure these definitions and other 
technical dimensions of how the money flows out and is invested 
are aligned with our intent, the purpose behind the 
infrastructure investment that we have made. I think we can 
accomplish that, and I appreciate your bringing attention to it 
in today's hearing.
    Thanks very much. I yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. I appreciate that assessment and could not agree 
more.
    The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Georgia. Oh, I 
am sorry. I now recognize the gentleman from Utah, Mr. Curtis, 
for 5 minutes please.
    Mr. Curtis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member.
    I would like to bring up a point I have not heard discussed 
today, and I do it carefully because I do not want to imply 
that there are not serious needs that need to be addressed, 
particularly among those who can lease afford to pay for it.
    But as I view the situation, during the 20th century, 
Federal grants and public works programs largely built out 
today's water infrastructure, and in my view this Federal 
subsidization and other political choices have led to 
artificially low water rates and water consumption.
    Now, Utah is in the State's longest drought, and we are 
struggling to get people motivated to conserve water, and we 
talk about water as if it is free. Like it is an analogy, 
right, as compared to water if it is free.
    I was a former mayor and dealt with an aging water system 
in my city, and I worry that a lot of our efforts to support 
cities are well intentioned but actually make infrastructure 
worse in the long run, like creating a backward incentive for 
cities to wait for Federal funding instead of being proactive.
    Mr. Olson, you referred to a decade old automobile, and it 
made me think about my children. If I had given them a car and 
they did not change the oil and they did not do any maintenance 
on it, would I give them a new car when that car was worn out 
or would I give them a lecture about maintaining the car?
    And I am just worried that our cities were set up in a 
situation that actually incentivized bad behavior and those who 
did invest in infrastructure as a city or a municipality or 
State are probably less likely to get help from us now because 
their needs are less.
    Mr. McGoff, is it possible that too much Federal 
subsidization of local infrastructure has created a city where 
municipalities, counties, and States have not been building the 
cost of maintenance into water rates?
    And Ms. Mathieu talked about how expensive this is, but it 
becomes less expensive if we look at this over decades and 
decades of water users contributing to the cost.
    Mr. McGoff, could you comment on that?
    Mr. McGoff. Certainly. Thank you, Congressman.
    Many States, Indiana included, are now requiring asset 
management plans be part of the finance packages that they 
receive.
    So recognizing your comments, we wanted to make sure that 
we are good stewards of Federal resources, and we now do 
require utilities and many States are starting to adopt the 
same philosophy that utilities do manage their assets 
appropriately.
    And through the Safe Drinking Water Act there is the 
subject of technical managerial requirements that are 
associated with managing a utility, and we certainly look at 
those as we are closing financing with those communities.
    Mr. Curtis. Thank you.
    Thomas Payne said what we obtain too cheap we esteem too 
lightly, and I think that applies to water users as well as 
communities who did not pay, right, for their systems.
    Mr. McGoff, nearly half of the supplemental funding in this 
program in the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act is 
directed to principal forgiveness or grants in contrast to 
subsidized loans, the traditional instrument of the SRF 
Programs.
    How big of a change is this?
    And are there any concerns you might have of this becoming 
a more permanent aspect of the programs?
    Mr. McGoff. Because the base program is still being funded 
and the supplemental funding for the base program is 
continuing, the additional subsidization we are looking at is 
in addition to, and it is a 5-year window to target those most 
in need.
    So we do not see this as being a long-term concern. 
Certainly we are believers in a loan program that recycles 
loans in and back out to communities as long as the base 
program continues, as we did with ARRA. We can adjust and be 
good stewards of this specialized funding, if you will, to 
target in this instance lead service line and emerging 
contaminants.
    Mr. Curtis. Thank you.
    Let me come back to something that was touched on earlier 
that I want to go back to, and that is this concept of 
homeowners. I believe most circumstances, certainly when I was 
mayor, the homeowner owns the pipes from their home out into 
the street.
    Are we giving adequate consideration to homeowners who 
rarely have the funds, right, to replace those pipes?
    And what are we overlooking, if anything, here, and what 
should we be talking about in the case of homeowners?
    It does not matter if all of the pipes are perfect up to 
their home if it is lead from there into their taps.
    Mr. McGoff. And that would be the consideration for having 
additional subsidization not just targeted disadvantaged 
community, but if additional funds in the lead service line 
replacement were available for additional subsidization or for 
grant funding, then those homeowners----
    Mr. Curtis. We are going to get cutoff from the Chairman 
here. I see him reaching for his mouse.
    So let me just conclude by saying I think in addition to 
that even though they can afford it, they rarely know that they 
have the problem or how to do it, and certainly we need to be 
looking at an educational component as well.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield my time.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from New York, 
Brooklyn. We have Representative Yvette Clarke. You are given 5 
minutes to ask questions please.
    Ms. Clarke. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I thank our 
ranking member, Mr. McKinley, for convening us today for this 
important hearing.
    And let me thank our witnesses for your testimony.
    Access to clean drinking water is a basic human right. I 
think this is something that at least most of my colleagues can 
agree to, and yet here we are in the year 2022, and the right 
is still not a reality for too many folks in our Nation, 
particularly when we look at lower income communities, 
communities of color, and rural communities.
    This is a major injustice not only because nobody should 
have to worry about whether their drinking water is safe, but 
because we also have the technology to modernize our 
infrastructure and guarantee clean water for each and every 
American.
    If we have the ability to do the right thing, then we also 
have the responsibility to do the right thing. This is why I 
was proud to cast my vote in favor of the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act, which makes the largest down payment 
on clean drinking water in our Nation's history.
    One of the key beneficiaries of these investments will be 
children, and up to 400,000 schools and childcare facilities 
who have risk of exposure to lead service lines.
    Mr. Olson, can you briefly speak toward why lead 
contamination in drinking water is so acutely dangerous to 
children and why it is critical that we address this 
contamination at schools and daycare locations?
    Mr. Olson. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman.
    Schools and daycare centers are an underrecognized source 
of lead exposure. Certainly drinking water is one. Also paint 
is something we should talk about separately.
    But we actually looked at the data in New York State, which 
was collected. New York is one of the few States that required 
pretty comprehensive testing schools, and they found over 80 
percent of the schools statewide had lead levels that in at 
least one of their faucets or fountains that exceeded New York 
State's then existing action level.
    So that is a lot of schools, a lot of kids drinking a lot 
of this water that is lead contaminated, and it can have 
lifelong impacts.
    The problem with lead, as we all know, is there is no safe 
level, and a little bit of lead can cause harm for the child's 
entire life, learning disabilities, lower ability to earn 
money, and a lot of irreversible health impacts.
    Ms. Clarke. Very well. This issue is extremely concerning 
to me, and that is why my Safe School Drinking Water Act 
included in the House-passed bill, Build Back Better Act, would 
support the installation of filtered water fountains at 
children and childcare programs across the Nation, with a focus 
on underserved school systems.
    These water stations will take advantage of the latest 
filtration technology capable of removing lead from drinking 
water.
    Mr. Olson, do you agree that this program would be an 
additional important step in protecting children from 
contaminated drinking water at schools?
    Mr. Olson. This is absolutely a crucial program. It is 
something that needs additional funding, however. I know the 
reconciliation bill that this body passed would include 
additional funding that can be applied to that, but it has been 
a really under resourced issue and something that we would 
really like to see major investment to address in schools.
    And I will just point out one thing, which is those 
filters, your approach of filtering, it is much less expensive 
than ripping out all of the plumbing in the school building, 
and it is more efficient because it will immediately provide 
safe drinking water to the kids.
    So we strongly support that approach.
    Ms. Clarke. Wonderful. Thank you.
    Last, I want to turn to the existential threat of climate 
change. As we have seen in Brooklyn with Hurricane Ida and 
Super Storm Sandy, one of the major climate impacts we are now 
having to deal with is more frequent and powerful storms that 
wreak havoc on our infrastructure.
    That is why the infrastructure law established two new EPA 
programs on water system resilience and sustainability.
    Mr. Adeem, can you speak to why this Federal support is so 
crucial to cities as they upgrade water infrastructure to deal 
with the realities of climate change?
    Mr. Adeem. Thank you, Congresswoman. A crucial question.
    Yes, just looking at the last storm and I would say 
Hurricane Ida, living in a large urban City like Newark, one of 
the oldest cities in the country, aged infrastructure cannot 
sustain the capacity of these frequent rain events, seven 
inches of water over a 2-hour period. There is nowhere for it 
to go in large urban cities versus rural areas where water can 
recede.
    Ms. Clarke. Ms. Mathieu, is there anything you would like 
to add?
    Ms. Mathieu. Yes, thank you.
    An excellent point. Storm Sandy taught us a lot in our 
little State. It hit us really pretty hard, as well as New York 
and New Jersey.
    So one of the things that we have recently started is a 
Climate and Public Health Office. We applied for the BRACE 
Grant under CDC, and we are now proud to say in Connecticut 
that we are a BRACE State finally.
    So we want to focus on the people that are harmed the most. 
We find that, again, it is the same people that are harmed in 
disadvantaged communities that are exposed to heat islands, 
heat stress, and other issues.
    And we are very pleased to get that work started, but we 
have to scramble to put the funding together to start to focus 
on climate change and public health because there are a lot of 
impacts that we are seeing, and we are going to work really 
very hard on that.
    Air quality is really very important and so is water.
    Ms. Clarke. Well, my time has expired, Ms. Mathieu.
    Ms. Mathieu. I am sorry.
    Ms. Clarke. Thank you so much.
    And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Mathieu. Sorry, sir.
    Mr. Tonko. Sorry about that.
    The gentlelady yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Georgia. 
Representative Carter, you are recognized for 5 minutes please.
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank all of you for being here and for indulging in 
this.
    Mr. McGoff, I want to start with you, and I want to discuss 
the very small and rural water systems.
    I am from Georgia. There are two Georgians. There is 
Atlanta, and there is everywhere else, and I represent 
everywhere else.
    So I am talking about the small towns. A lot of my district 
in South Georgia is small towns, and as we discussed all during 
this hearing, that brings with it unique water challenges.
    In fact, I had a small town of 300 people just two months 
ago that inquired about how they could get some funds to drill 
a well. They need help.
    As I mentioned earlier, I was a mayor at one time, and 
these towns, especially these small towns, they do not have 
this expertise that they need.
    How do you think, Mr. McGoff, that States can help assist 
these communities that have never used the SRFs?
    And how can they use their expertise to assist?
    Mr. McGoff. Thank you, Congressman.
    And we do recognize that. I spend quite a bit of my time in 
small towns personally visiting with the small-town officials 
to try to educate them on our process.
    Many States have professionals whether it be engineering 
professionals, finance professionals and/or the Alliance for 
Rural Water, RCAP, some other agencies. Many of the SRF 
Programs regularly engage with those professionals as well as 
the agencies to inform them of the resources that we can make 
available to small communities.
    And so I think each State has the ability to tailor our 
financial resources to where their needs are within those 
particular States, and from my experience, the small 
communities are being heard and being served in multiple ways.
    Mr. Carter. Do you think States need more flexibility in 
order to help these communities?
    Mr. McGoff. The current flexibility we have works. It is 
the unknown. I know that the substantial guidance that was 
received from EPA suggests, pays a lot of attention to 
disadvantaged community and defining disadvantaged communities.
    So in the past the SRF Programs, I think, have proven their 
ability to provide funding to get it out the door to the 
appropriate places, and as long as we can continue to do what 
we have done in the past, we feel confident that we will be 
able to take care of it.
    Mr. Carter. Well, let me ask you something. In your 
testimony, you highlighted how statewide strategies for 
inventory in lead service lines and testing for contaminants is 
limited.
    What are other challenges aside from just funding that we 
need to work on with lead service line replacement projects?
    Mr. McGoff. Because the lead service line replacement 
specifically and the emergent contaminants are new for the SRF 
Programs, they are not currently in our or on our fundable 
ranges or in our project priority list, and in order for us to 
access funding through EPA, we need to get them on those lists. 
So that's the target for those.
    And in the past or in ARRA for traditional wastewater/
drinking water projects, we already had fundable lists that 
included those types of projects.
    So there will be a bit of a challenge with these new 
targets, if you will. The greater flexibility we have from EPA 
to identify those, get them on our project priority list, 
submit them for funding would be helpful.
    Mr. Carter. Let's just say we are successful, wildly 
successful in getting these lead lines removed and replaced 
with non-lead ones. Are we done with the issue or is there 
more?
    Mr. McGoff. With respect to the lead issue and for the 
service lines going into the home----
    Mr. Carter. I was about to say that, you know, that is 
still a problem, right?
    Mr. McGoff. The removal of lines into the homes, I guess, 
after the Prentice Plumbing, we would not be aware of what is 
actually happening inside the premise, but the filters and 
other things could address it.
    Mr. Carter. Well, we cannot simply ignore it. I mean, any 
suggestion?
    Mr. McGoff. I think through the assessment we will come up 
with some of those suggestions because as we assess, we will 
build a knowledge base of what is needed to take care of the 
problem.
    And so I think, as we have testified, the assessment is a 
very important starting point for us.
    Mr. Carter. OK. Just one last thing. Are there any other 
areas that Congress should be watching during the 
implementation? Because they may need some statutory 
corrections. Anything else that you know of that we need to be 
aware of we might be working on with this?
    Mr. McGoff. Apart from what has already been mentioned in 
my testimony, I think that is what we find to be of most 
importance especially since time is short for the SRF Programs 
to make application for this funding, being 18 months is all we 
have to work with at this point in time.
    Mr. Carter. Look. I know it is run through the State. I 
know all too well because, as I mentioned, I was a mayor for 
eight years, and our city quadrupled in size during those eight 
years.
    We would not have been able to do it had it not been for 
having water and sewer available, and safe water was important. 
We used the SRF loans, and we depended on the State, and it 
helped us tremendously.
    So I hope everyone here realizes, and on the committee, 
that this is extremely important to these small communities and 
these growing communities.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes virtually the Representative from 
California. Representative Barragan, you are recognized for 5 
minutes please.
    Ms. Barragan. Thank you, Chairman Tonko, for holding this 
important hearing on the importance of upgrading America's 
drinking water infrastructure and how the infrastructure law 
that President Biden and Democrats bought will help.
    Mr. Olson, the investment in the infrastructure law to 
clean up PFAS is long overdue. In my district, Southgate, a 
majority Latino community needs funding to remediate water 
treatment systems to address PFAS contamination.
    However, for communities with limited resources, accessing 
Federal water infrastructure funds can be difficult because 
they are often given out through loans from a State Revolving 
Fund and must be paid back.
    How important is it for the EPA and States to focus on 
steering the infrastructure's law, set aside funding for grants 
or for forgivable loans to disadvantaged communities?
    Mr. Olson. It is a great question, and it is something that 
is absolutely crucial is to make sure that the money that is 
set aside in the new bipartisan infrastructure law will go to 
those communities that need it most in the form of either 
grants or forgivable loans.
    And the good news is that about half of that State 
revolving fund money is going to go to those disadvantaged 
communities through those kinds of provisions, and also there 
is specific direction for the PFAS money also that needs to go 
to those disadvantaged communities.
    So I think things like you are describing really should be 
able to get that money. The problem is going to be helping them 
apply for the money, getting them the information, the 
engineering help, as Mr. McKinley was talking about, to 
actually hold together a good, strong application.
    A lot of these communities just do not even have the 
resources to apply for the money in the first place. So that is 
going to be key, is getting the technical assistance from the 
States and from EPA to those disadvantaged communities to help 
them apply and get the money.
    Ms. Barragan. Director Adeem, following up on that 
question, to meet the goals of Justice 40, what additional 
steps should the EPA and States take to reduce any unnecessary 
impediments to disadvantaged communities receiving water 
infrastructure funds and technical assistance needed to pursue 
them?
    Mr. Adeem. Excellent question, Congresswoman.
    I think the States should be more aggressive in meeting 
with those disadvantaged and environmental injustice 
communities and overburdened communities, rural communities, 
just having dialog with them to know up front what they are 
looking for, what their needs and the resources that the State 
Revolving Loan Funds can provide, that technical assistance, 
that engineering assistance that sometimes exists but may be 
limited, but to let those systems know that is available.
    Ms. Barragan. Thank you.
    Mr. Adeem. It would be a huge step to moving those programs 
forward.
    Ms. Barragan. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Olson, as you highlight in your testimony, addressing 
underinvestment in our water infrastructure is only part of the 
challenge. We also need to strengthen the Safe Drinking Water 
Act and set pollution control standards on water polluters.
    Why is this so important for clean water, and what are the 
key steps that Congress and the Administration can take?
    Mr. Olson. Well, thank you for the question.
    One key issue is that the Safe Drinking Water Act, frankly, 
is broken, and I am hoping the committee will spend some time 
looking into that. It has been a problem for years. EPA has not 
been able to adopt new standards for things like PFAS that we 
have known about for years.
    So that is one issue. In addition, I think a key problem 
has been that with this underinvestment, EPA has been reluctant 
to adopt rigorous standards for some of the contaminants, and I 
am hoping that that starts to change.
    We really need to fix the law and to make sure that we are 
making the kind of investments that are actually going to make 
it possible for this to happen.
    Ms. Barragan. Well, thank you.
    We certainly are taking your suggestions on what we can do 
to fix it.
    Director Adeem, my last question is for you.
    In Newark, your city council passed a law to give your 
department the authority to go into private rental properties 
without the owners' consent to replace lead services lines.
    Why was this property access important to your work in 
disadvantaged communities and what actions the EPA and States 
can take to support rental property access in order to meet the 
administration's Justice 40 goals for the lead service line 
replacement?
    Mr. Adeem. Thank you, again, Congresswoman, for this most 
important----
    Ms. Barragan. This is about property access.
    Mr. Adeem [continuing]. For this important question.
    And in the city of Newark, as we have made known, the city 
of Newark is a city of over 315,000 residents. Seventy-four 
percent of those residents are renters. They do not own their 
own home, and tenants that live in those properties there are 
always onboard to getting their lead service line replaced.
    But the owners can be a financial institution, an LLC that 
does not have an interest in replacing the lead service line.
    So part of us reducing exposure to lead, we thought the 
ordinance played a huge role in making our program effective 
and efficient and save money and time by letting us go by a 
block-by-block approach and just have anyone give us right of 
entry to a home we are replacing that service line, allowed us 
to replace over 23,000 lead service lines today.
    So that legislation will be a crucial move forward for any 
utility that is looking to replace lead service lines.
    Ms. Barragan. Thank you.
    With that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentlelady yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from the State of 
Washington and also the ranking member of the full committee, 
Representative Rodgers. You are recognized for 5 minutes 
please.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, everyone, for being here.
    Ms. Mathieu and Mr. McGoff, your testimony discusses small 
rural cities and towns and States that the Association of State 
Drinking Water Administrators has consistently highlighted 
because small communities can be equally disadvantaged.
    Why is it important for versatility and flexibility in 
defining and meeting these small and rural communities' needs?
    Ms. Mathieu. As I think it has been stated here before, 
small communities struggle. A small system can be a system of, 
say, 41 homes.
    I recently met with a new owner. Many of these systems are 
owned or controlled by a homeowner's association. They are a 
group of volunteers that have full-time jobs or maybe two jobs, 
and they get together on a weekly basis trying to manage a 
water system.
    So as you can imagine, that is difficult to do, and I 
recently met with one in the small town of Lebanon, 41 homes, a 
new person who took on all of this responsibility herself. She 
is a young mother with four kids, just had COVID, but wanted to 
meet with us.
    So we met with her in the town hall with the town's First 
Selectman, and we talked it through for a couple of hours, the 
needs that she has.
    A lot of it is financial. The rates have not been raised in 
years, maybe decades. Full cost pricing, as I think one of the 
gentlemen was getting at, really is not there for the smaller 
system. They have not raised the rates.
    So we in our State two years ago, we passed the law 
requiring small systems that serve under 1,000 people to 
produce an asset and physical management plan. Keep it simple, 
draft a plan, know what you have, know how old your 
infrastructure is, know what your rates need to be.
    She in this small, small system has now started to step up 
the rates. She has worked with her community. She has 
communicated with her community, and they are all in agreement.
    It is not easy. Then for her now to take on a loan for the 
SRF, that is another step, and we are going to work really very 
hard to get our engineers and our analysts to meet, you know, 
as Mr. Adeem had said. Get out into the community and sit down 
and meet with them. And talk with them directly. It is really 
important.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you.
    Mr. Adeem. And thank you, Congresswoman.
    And I agree. It sounds like we spent the same time in these 
small towns, having similar conversations.
    The beauty of the SRF Programs is in their flexibility. 
Each State can tailor their programs to address the needs of 
their State and to meet both urban, large environment or 
utilities, as well as small towns and small utilities.
    So I think that is the hallmark of the SRF Programs, is in 
the flexibility.
    Mrs. Rodgers. OK. As a followup, your testimony focused on 
ensuring Infrastructure Improvement and Jobs Act funding is 
efficient, effective, and streamlined to lower the paperwork 
burden on the stakeholders. I think that that is a great idea.
    I notice that your testimony also calls out challenges and 
barriers faced by communities, many without expertise in 
navigating requirements like Buy America, Build America, and 
Federal prevailing wage requirements.
    Why do you call out for the development of waivers for 
these requirements in limited circumstances?
    And what did your officials learn from the use of waivers 
to some of the requirements in the 2009 American Recovery and 
Reinvestment Act?
    Mr. McGoff. The smaller towns, smaller utilities are the 
least equipped to deal with red tape, if you will. They need 
additional resources and/or professional assistance.
    We in Indiana hired labor standards administrators for 
those utilities to take care of that red tape, and it did come 
at an expense. Thousands of dollars were spent to provide that 
service for the small communities.
    So it can be done. It just takes additional resources and 
certainly hand-holding to get those communities through the 
process.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Well, and I will let you answer also.
    Ms. Mathieu. I would say the same.
    Mrs. Rodgers. I would love to hear what are some of the 
specific challenges to Buy America, Build America?
    Because I think we all are anxious to see that happen, but 
what is the reality on the grounds?
    Ms. Mathieu. Added costs, affordability of the loan. A 
small system like the one I just described.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Can you give me some insights as to what we 
are facing?
    Ms. Mathieu. I do not have the details. Maybe----
    Mr. McGoff. Uncertainty. It takes States some time to get 
up to speed on new requirements and then educate our borrowers 
and the professionals.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Do we have the supplies in America that you 
would need?
    Mr. McGoff. Well, that is uncertain. If it can be 
implemented along the lines of AIS, then we understand AIS, but 
if it throws additional requirements to us, that is where the 
uncertainty is.
    Mrs. Rodgers. OK. Thank you all for being here.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentlewoman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Virginia, 
Representative McEachin. You are recognized for 5 minutes, and 
thank you for joining us virtually.
    Mr. McEachin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate the 
opportunity to participate in today's hearing.
    The bipartisan infrastructure law will provide 
approximately $30 billion in investment over the next five 
years to improve our Nation's water infrastructure.
    Additionally, the Justice 40 Initiative should ensure the 
funds are accessible to small and disadvantaged communities to 
ease efforts in replacing lead service lines and addressing 
emerging contaminants like PFAS.
    This hearing today is critical. As money begins to flow to 
States and localities, we must ensure that in the 
implementation of new funds that we decrease the pollution 
burden on low-income Americans and communities of color because 
all Americans deserve access to clean water regardless of race 
or income.
    Mr. Adeem, first of all, I want to salute you and the city 
of Newark for replacing all of your city's 23,000 lead service 
lines in three years. Particularly I appreciate this was done 
with no cost to residents, as low-income renters are some of 
the most vulnerable populations.
    In order to provide lead service replacement to renters in 
the city of Newark, the city asked your State legislature to 
allow the use of public funds on private property. I know you 
have spoken of this somewhat in terms of Ms. Barragan's 
question, but are there other challenges that came with lead 
service lines and replacements on private property that you 
were not able to discuss with Ms. Barragan?
    Mr. Adeem. Yes. Thank you for your question. Thank you, 
Congressman.
    In the city of Newark, there is legislation around you 
cannot use public money on private property because you may be 
doing an improvement to that property which would create some 
type of assessment.
    In the city of Newark, we have also found out that when you 
start putting a price on replacing lead service lines, it is an 
opt-in program. Many homeowners that own their home or a 
company that does not live in the city there on the property, 
does not participate in removing lead service lines.
    So having legislation in place that you will not provide an 
assessment on someone that cannot afford it anyway helps us 
expedite the replacement efficiently and effectively.
    Mr. McEachin. Thank you, Mr. Adeem.
    Mr. Diaz, let me ask you. As you know, the EPA is currently 
working to propose rules on PFAS pollution by 2023. What rules 
would you like to see proposed on PFAS contamination?
    Mr. Diaz. Thank you for the question, Congressman McEachin.
    I would say that those kinds of suggestions are out of my 
wheelhouse, but I would like to add that, you know, as you 
know, lead is not the only public health concern, and 
contaminated water exposes communities to harmful chemicals 
like PFAS and also arsenic.
    And you know, more than 27 million Americans get their 
water from systems that violate health standards, and again, 
low-income communities and communities of color are 
disproportionately impacted by this contaminated water.
    The money in the bipartisan infrastructure law is a $10 
billion down payment on the cleanup of PFAS and urgent 
contaminants, but continued investment will be needed, as well 
as further research.
    Thank you.
    Mr. McEachin. Thank you.
    Let me open that question up to Mr. Olson or Ms. Mathieu, 
if I did not pronounce your name too badly. Are there 
particular rules that you would like to see proposed by EPA 
concerning PFAS contamination, either one of you?
    Mr. Olson. Yes, I will start briefly. Thank you for the 
question. It is crucial.
    We would like to see EPA actually regulate the class of 
PFAS. They are proposing to just regulate two out of 9,000 
PFAS. So we know PFOA and PFOS are two that should be 
regulated, and EPA is moving on that.
    But they are short of like shark's teeth, right? I mean you 
have got two of them that we are going to regulate, but you 
have got thousands of them literally behind those two that are 
being regulated. If we do not deal with the whole class, we are 
never going to get this problem under control.
    And what we have seen in State after State, city after city 
is that we are not just seeing one or two PFAS. We are seeing a 
whole lot of different PFAS in a complex toxic mixture that 
people are being exposed to.
    So we need to crack down on the whole class.
    Ms. Mathieu. And I would add to that, to Mr. Olson's point, 
I would wholeheartedly agree that we are happy to see that EPA 
is moving in the direction of setting hopefully maximum 
contaminant levels for OA and OS, but in our State we are 
seeing prevalence of many more.
    And once we start testing, you will find it. And the 
unfortunate thing is you might find it in school drinking water 
because of septic fields and other things.
    So I would agree that, No. 1, if I had, you know, things 
that we could ask of EPA to continue to move forward with at 
least OA and OS and move that along as quickly as possible, you 
know, reviewing all the science and the data, but also help us 
where we need the help the most with all of these other 
contaminants.
    To get a better handle on that is incredibly important as 
we find them more and more in our State.
    Mr. McEachin. Thank you so much.
    I have run out of time, and I yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now 
recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Crenshaw, for 5 
minutes please.
    Mr. Crenshaw. Thank you. Thank you to the Chair. Thank you 
to the ranking member, and thank you to all of the witnesses 
for coming today on this important hearing.
    Look. I think even in the most limited government, 
conservatives do think that the government has a role in 
keeping everyday Americans safe and with safe drinking water.
    And there are communities in my district, for instance, 
like Tamina, that do not have clean water. My office is 
dedicated to helping that community get the water that it 
needs.
    But along that same theme, there is a key component in 
keeping drinking water safe, which is chlorine, and last year 
there was a brief supply disruption in the production of 
chlorine that resulted in several communities sporadically 
losing access to chlorine products and requiring an abundance 
of boiled water notices across the United States.
    Administrator Regan was so concerned about the communities 
losing access to chlorine that he actually sent an urgent 
letter to the chlorine manufacturers, reminding them that 
chlorine is used in the overwhelming majority of water systems 
and that they need to prioritize getting those shipments out 
the door.
    I will submit this letter for the record.
    But that same EPA also advocated so strongly against the 
processes that create chlorine in the first place. Support 
chlorine but just not how to make it.
    There are only two ways of making chlorine. One uses 
asbestos and one uses PFAS. EPA is working on a draft rule that 
bans asbestos, and this committee has worked on a plan. We have 
passed it out of this Congress to effectively ban PFAS or at 
least create such extreme liability for producing it that many 
companies will simply choose not to do it.
    Mr. Adeem, you have got a water system. You use chlorine, 
do you not? And what do you make of this? What do you make of 
this?
    Mr. Adeem. Thank you, Congressman.
    Chlorine is crucial to our treatment process to provide 
safe drinking water. It is a disinfectant that is widely used 
across the country to disinfect water.
    We did see last year some of the manufacturers were having 
delays in processing and shipping chlorine, especially early, 
the first quarter of 2021, around that.
    Mr. Crenshaw. And can you import cheaper chlorine from 
abroad?
    Mr. Adeem. I am not sure. I never looked into that.
    Mr. Crenshaw. The answer is no. You are not allowed to 
import chlorine.
    So you would have to buy it locally, and if there is a 
scarcity or if it just becomes prohibitively expensive because 
we crack down on the processes to make it, what do we do?
    It is a rhetorical question. I do not think you know the 
answer.
    The point I am making is it is a problem, and we cannot 
regulate in silos. We have to regulate with the entire picture 
in mind, and I think some of these pursuits have been reckless 
or shortsighted.
    It is also worth noting that chloring is not just a 
disinfectant for water systems. It is a foundational chemical 
for fertilizer and medicine as well. It always feels good to 
ban chemicals that you do not understand, but the question is 
will it do any good.
    No. You are monitoring often about feelings, not facts. In 
this case, you could have serious consequences. Health care 
will be more expensive. Food will be more expensive. Water will 
be more expensive. That is what happens when you create 
scarcity via excessive government regulations: increased cost.
    And so I ask the committee today with inflation being the 
No. 1 problem facing everyday Americans, do we do away with 
this shortsighted crusade to effectively ban the very chemicals 
that we need the most?
    I still have some time left, and so, Mr. Olson, you were 
just talking about the need to crack down on PFAS chemicals. 
How do we do that without having the second and third order 
consequences that I just mentioned?
    Those are very real consequences. We talked to the 
industries that make these chemicals that we absolutely need. 
So how do we thread the needle?
    Mr. Olson. Well, I was speaking to the need to make sure 
that they are not in the drinking water, to filter it out of 
the drinking water before people drink it.
    But I think there is a need to go toward reasonable 
controls on PFAS production, and the vast majority of PFAS can 
be replaced with other compounds.
    So firefighting foam is one example where it is in 
widespread use, and now all over the world a lot of airports, 
for example, are phasing out or have phased out PFAS-based 
firefighting foam.
    So in a lot of the big uses there are alternatives. There 
may be some crucial, absolutely essential uses that need to be 
retained until we can find out if there is an alternative, but 
the basic problem is we are seeing a lot of profligate----
    Mr. Crenshaw. And I just mentioned one of them, but those 
companies that make the PFAS membrane that will create 
chlorine, they will not do it when they are faced with trillion 
dollar liabilities because of being regulated under CERCLA.
    So is that the right step to take?
    Mr. Olson. Well, what I will say is if you are 
contaminating somebody's drinking water with PFAS, you ought to 
be responsible for----
    Mr. Olson. But they are not. They are making chlorine.
    Understand there is more to the supply chain than just--
nothing here is touching the drinking water. The PFAS I not 
contaminating the drinking water in this case. We are talking 
about how to make chlorine, which is the opposite of 
contaminating the drinking water. It is what allows you to have 
clean drinking water.
    Mr. Olson. I understand. What I am referring to is a lot of 
the actual manufacturing of the PFAS has caused pretty 
widespread contamination in North Carolina and several other 
States.
    Mr. Crenshaw. I am out of time.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman yields back. You are welcome.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from California, Dr. 
Ruiz. Congressman, you are recognized for 5 minutes please.
    Mr. Ruiz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing 
and for bringing attention to the important investments we made 
in clean drinking water through the bipartisan infrastructure 
act.
    Water is life. Access to clean drinking water is a human 
right and a common good for all, and it is a priority me for 
two reasons.
    First, as a physician and public health expert, I know 
firsthand how important clean water is for our communities' 
health and for children's development. No matter if a child is 
growing up in downtown Detroit exposed to lead or in a 
farmworker trailer park exposed to arsenic in my district in 
rural California, they must have access to safe and clean 
drinking water.
    Second, over the last few years a number of communities in 
my district have been exposed to water contaminated with 
dangerous levels of arsenic.
    I want to be clear. There is no greater environmental 
injustice than children having to drink contaminated water that 
can increase their chances of developing neurological 
illnesses, heart disease, diabetes, and cancer.
    I have been working on this issue since 2019 when the EPA 
issued an emergency order against Oasis Mobile Home Park 
located in Thermal on privately owned fee land in the Torres-
Martinez Tribal Reservation in my district.
    Since then the EPA has announced seven additional mobile 
home parks in my congressional district whose water exceeds the 
maximum contamination level for arsenic, which was naturally 
occurring in the groundwater in their well water system.
    We must do everything to protect the health of my 
constituents, including getting these farmworker mobile home 
parks linked up with the local water district so they do not 
have to rely on these wells pumping unsafe water.
    Mr. Olson, in your testimony, you mentioned a study that 
found that socioeconomic status and race were correlated with 
exposure to contaminants like arsenic and are also correlated 
with their water system being in noncompliance with safe 
drinking water standards.
    What can we do to correct this environmental injustice?
    And how do we ensure that these vulnerable communities are 
not exposed to these contaminants and are protected by Federal 
standards?
    Mr. Olson. It is an absolutely crucial issue, and that is 
one reason we are really glad that the bipartisan 
infrastructure law targets at least 49 percent of this new 
funding to disadvantaged communities.
    Now, it is going to be up to your State of California. It 
is going to be up to each individual State to make sure that 
money actually goes to the communities that need it, and what 
we have seen in case after case is and I just heard earlier 
this week about a situation here State Revolving Fund money was 
going to a golf course community, to expand a gold course 
community's drinking water supply.
    So we want to target the communities that really need it.
    Mr. Ruiz. See, that is the reason why we have disparities. 
That is the reason why farmworkers get to drink arsenic in 
their water, yet you have development of these posh resorts in 
other areas.
    And this is a problem in California.
    Let me ask you another question. You know, I proudly 
supported the bipartisan infrastructure act, which contained 
$11.7 billion in funding for the State Revolving Funds that you 
just mentioned, which provide loans and other assistance for 
water projects. This is a fund that could be used for 
consolidating water systems and help bring clean drinking water 
to my constituents in these farmworker mobile home parks in the 
Eastern Coachella Valley.
    However, in the State of California, there is a rule that 
prohibits utilities from using rate payer funds for non-rate 
payer projects like those in the farmworker trailer parks in 
Eastern Coachella Valley which prevents those mobile home parks 
or water districts like the Coachella Valley Water District 
from accessing the Federal loan portion of the State Revolving 
Fund for water consolidating projects, like they can in other 
States.
    So with this in mind, how can we help communities under 
this restriction access the increased money we provided in the 
infrastructure law for the State Revolving Fund, particularly 
for water system consolidation projects?
    Mr. Olson. Well, I would love to talk to your office. I do 
not know the details of the California rules, which surprises 
me honestly. I know Community Water Center in California has 
been working on trying to address some of the very issues you 
are talking about. I would love to followup with you on that 
because that is a very important issue.
    Arsenic should not be in anybody's drinking water.
    Mr. Ruiz. Absolutely not. And we put $11.-some billion in 
the State Revolving Funds. This is a fund pool or pocket that 
could be used, but we cannot bring those funds that we just put 
money into.
    So we have to address this barrier in the State of 
California to bring the money into consolidating these 
projects.
    And so with that I yield back my time.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman yields back.
    And the Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Delaware, 
Representative Blunt Rochester. You are recognized for 5 
minutes, and thank you for joining us virtually.
    Ms. Blunt Rochester. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman and 
Ranking Member McKinley, for calling this hearing.
    And I also want to thank all of the witnesses for your 
testimony today.
    The bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act is an 
important step to provide long needed improvements in drinking 
water quality and accessibility, and we are already seeing the 
benefits of this legislation in Delaware.
    Earlier this month, Governor Carney announced that Delaware 
agencies would start accepting applications for grants and 
loans for drinking water and wastewater system improvement 
across the State. Using the historic funding from the 
infrastructure law to the existing Drinking Water State 
Revolving Fund and Clean Water State Revolving Fund, along with 
the recently established State Clean Water Trust, to support 
these opportunities.
    Water accessibility and affordability in the United States 
had been a mounting crisis for years, and the infrastructure 
law gives us an opportunity to make real and lasting 
improvements across our drinking water systems.
    But our investments cannot end there. The Environmental 
Protection Agency estimates that maintaining and upgrading the 
Nation's drinking water and wastewater systems will cost more 
than $750 billion over the next 20 years.
    We need to continue to work together to ensure that every 
person in this country, regardless of race, income, or zip 
code, has access to clean, reliable, and safe drinking water. 
This is a fundamental need that we can and should deliver to 
all Americans.
    My first question is for Mr. Olson. In your testimony, you 
highlighted the recommendation to create a low-income water 
assistance program, and last year I introduced H.R. 3293, the 
bipartisan Low-Income Water Customer Assistance Program, along 
with my colleagues, Representatives Katko, Dingell, and Tlaib. 
This legislation was included in previous past packages and 
would establish programs at EPA that would assist low-income 
households to maintain access to drinking water and wastewater 
services.
    Can you discuss why these types of financial utility 
assistance programs are so important?
    Mr. Olson. Thank you for the question.
    Yes, we have actually been supportive of low-income water 
assistance. We have this for heat. We have low-income heating 
assistance, but we do not have a low-income water assistance 
program.
    There is a little bit of a pilot program that was created, 
but it really has not been financed, and it is something that I 
think is crucial.
    The other crucial thing to do is make sure that water rates 
are structured in a way that will help lower-income people. So 
we favor restructuring of water rates as well so that there may 
be lifeline rates for very low-income people.
    So that it is a combination of low-income water assistance 
and reform of water rates.
    Ms. Blunt Rochester. Great. Thank you so much for also 
mentioning the LIHEAP Program.
    I am following up on Representative Carter's question. A 
lot of today's hearing is focused on public water 
infrastructure, but nearly two in ten Delawareans use private 
wells, and some communities in the State are in such remote and 
rural areas that even if they wanted to connect to a public 
water system, they are unable to do so.
    What are States doing to reach more remote communities that 
are not on public water systems?
    And how can Congress help support those homes that are not 
on traditional water lines?
    Mr. McGoff. Is that a question for Mr. Olson?
    Ms. Blunt Rochester. Yes.
    Mr. Olson. OK. I will start it. It looks like Ms. Mathieu 
may also have something to say.
    But I think it is really important for States to make this 
a priority, and it is something that I know that for years it 
has been debated about exactly what has to happen for private 
wells.
    Right now the Safe Drinking Water Act does not protect them 
at all, and it is ending up that so many States are realizing 
USGS is showing that there is widespread contamination of these 
private wells with arsenic, with bacteria, with PFAS.
    We really need to address this problem, and currently the 
Federal laws really do not reach them. It has been left to 
States.
    Ms. Mathieu. And I will add to that.
    Ms. Blunt Rochester. Yes.
    Ms. Mathieu. If I may, I could add to that. In Connecticut, 
there are 325,000 private wells. The only tests that are done 
is during the first time when that well is drilled.
    We are trying in Connecticut to pass a law through our 
legislative session right now to require, at the very least, 
testing on property transfer, at the very least.
    Now, that is not everything. We really do believe private 
wells should be tested more often, and there are substantial 
issues, sodium chloride, uranium, arsenic, iron, manganese, 
people face every single day.
    A lot of these sources, a lot of these wells are not tested 
at all. We really truly believe that that water should be 
tested.
    Ms. Blunt Rochester. Great. Thank you.
    I have another question that I will submit for the record 
for Mr. Diaz about apprenticeships, but I want to respect 
everyone's time.
    And thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. You are most welcome. The gentlelady yields 
back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Florida. 
Representative Soto, you are recognized for 5 minutes please.
    Mr. Soto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    We have a duty in the Congress to provide clean water for 
every American. My test is pretty simple. If it is not fit for 
my family, it is not fit for any family in Central Florida.
    When we see the American Society of Civil Engineers, they 
have given us a C-minus in the most powerful, wealthiest 
country in the world. When I look at areas in my district, we 
have in St. Cloud, Florida resin buildup that has made water 
brown. We have neighborhoods like Kissimmee where even my 
neighbor just the other day had a corroded pipe going into our 
neighborhood that has to be replaced.
    East Orlando, Kissimmee, Haines City, Winter Haven, Lake 
Wales, all aging pipes from the 1880's to the early 1920's, 
with some of them built in the 1950's.
    Add in the septic tanks and other water leaks affect the 
water quality of our lakes as well, and you see there is a big 
challenge ahead for Central Florida.
    I have the fastest growing district in the Nation. So it is 
only getting bigger from there, but I am excited that help is 
on the way. The infrastructure law, $55 billion for drinking 
water, wastewater, and stormwater, $30 billion for drinking 
water, helping State Revolving Funds that have been talked 
about so much here; nine billion to remove PFAS, 15 billion for 
lead.
    We appreciate two of our Republican colleagues on this 
committee for supporting the bill, as well as all Democrats. We 
need to move forward on this.
    Mr. Adeem, it would be great for you to help us paint a 
picture for my constituents. For pipes that were built from the 
1880's to the 1920's that are 100 to 120 years old, what do 
those look like right now and how does that affect water 
quality?
    Mr. Adeem. Thank you, Congressman, for that question.
    They are old. They are brittle. The C factor is 
tuberculation buildup on old cast iron water mains or, you 
know, in my city we removed in the early 1990's probably one of 
the last wood water mains. It was great to see.
    But this infrastructure has exceeded its lifetime. We have 
pipes dating back to Abe Lincoln, when President Lincoln was in 
power, the President when we ran our distribution system.
    It is time to upgrade those systems.
    Mr. Soto. Thank you for mentioning the old cast iron pipes 
because that is exactly what flooded in our neighborhood next 
to a constituent's daughter's bedroom as it was bringing water 
in for the neighborhood and for fire hydrants.
    Ms. Mathieu, it would be great for you to also paint a 
picture of what 100-to 120-year-old pipes look like and then 
add in that some of them were made from lead. How does that 
affect communities?
    Ms. Mathieu. So we have a lot of those aged mains in our 
State, a lot in the Northeast. All of those need to be replaced 
over the next 10 years.
    We also have wooden water mains that are being replaced in 
our State. The unfortunate thing is that there are so many of 
them to replace, and in our State we have about 40 medium-size 
cities, and many of those struggle financially. There are 
between 40 to 50,000 people.
    They are also dealing with stormwater, sewer water, CSOs, 
you know, disconnecting the stormwater to sewer water, as well 
as drinking water.
    This infrastructure funding, this influx to drinking water 
infrastructure is timely. It is incredibly important to working 
with those communities, those 40 communities that serve larger 
populations, that have populations within them that are 
disadvantaged, that need the help, that need the investment in 
not only their pipes but their treatment, their pump stations, 
and all the other mechanisms that run that system.
    Mr. Soto. I am glad you mentioned midsized cities. I have a 
lot of them that are around 50,000 people, like a St. Cloud or 
a Kissimmee or Winter Haven, Florida. You mentioned them in 
Connecticut, too.
    What would it cost to do a basic upgrade of aging pipes and 
water systems in a midsized city of 50,000?
    If you want to defer to Mr. Adeem, by all means.
    Mr. Adeem. Thanks, Congressman.
    It would normally depend on the length of water main or 
sewer main that they have, the length and the size, but it is 
millions of dollars, probably billions of dollars.
    Mr. Soto. Well, thank you for that.
    When I think about wooden pipes and cast iron pipes that 
are--we do not have wooden ones in Central Florida. We are a 
little newer than that, but we have cast iron pipes that are 
corroded that when they are dug out of the ground, you cannot 
believe that drinking water for our families in modern times 
was going through such an antiquated piece of piping.
    So thanks for your testimony today. Together we can get 
this done for America.
    And I yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Arizona. Mr. 
O'Halleran, you are recognized for 5 minutes please, and thanks 
for joining us virtually.
    Mr. O'Halleran. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, 
members, for this ensuring that every American has access to 
clean drinking water hearing. What a novel idea.
    Now, this is a critical issue across America, but even more 
so in Northern Arizona where tribal lands and rural lands have 
continued to be left behind.
    I often talk about the digital divide, but there is also a 
drinking water divide in our country. In my district, 40 
percent of homes on the Navajo Nation do not have access to 
clean drinking water.
    This problem is compounded by the historic injustices of 
environmental degradation on tribal lands, and the government's 
failure to clean up the over 500 abandoned uranium mines on the 
reservation.
    These Super Fund sites directly limit the availability of 
clean drinking water for thousands of Navajo residents and put 
at risk huge aquifers in the Western United States.
    For far too long the government has stood in the way of 
tribes' ability to protect our citizens from harmful 
contaminants.
    Mr. Olson, tribal communities face unique challenges. How 
can we support tribal communities so they can access clean 
drinking water?
    What resources in the bipartisan infrastructure law can be 
used toward that goal?
    And beyond funding from the law, what else can Congress do 
to help these communities access safe drinking water?
    Mr. Olson. Thank you for that really crucial question.
    I mentioned in my testimony how tribal communities in so 
many cases have in some cases no drinking water at all, no 
sanitation at all. They have to carry their water.
    In a lot of other cases, they have contaminated water.
    A key is certainly funding. Another key is technical 
assistance because a lot of these communities, they do not have 
the wherewithal to even put together an application to get the 
money.
    So we need to have money that is specifically set aside for 
the tribes is one key aspect, and then we also need the 
technical assistance to help them actually apply for the funds 
and to actually implement and to operate and maintain these 
facilities.
    And I would agree with you. What has gone on in the Navajo 
Nation with uranium mining contaminating large swaths of the 
tribal area is inexcusable, and the Federal Government really 
owes a lot to that community to clean it up.
    Mr. O'Halleran. Thank you, Mr. Olson.
    The bipartisan infrastructure law makes historic 
investments to the United States drinking water restructure, 
including $9 billion to remove PFAS contaminants from drinking 
water, a serious issue faced in the Tucson water system.
    The law also includes $30 billion for water infrastructure, 
and this funding is badly needed throughout the Western United 
States and America.
    Last week my staff visited a small town in my district, 
Kearny, and saw the decaying water infrastructure firsthand. 
The residents cannot drink the water. Cleanup and replacement 
of drinking water infrastructure is often prohibitively 
expensive, making it unrealistic that small towns like Kearny 
can foot the bill.
    It is an historic mining area also.
    Ms. Mathieu, you mentioned in your testimony the challenges 
towns and communities with very small populations have with 
applying for funds through the drinking State Revolving Funds.
    How can States, tribes, and the EPA work to ensure these 
small communities are able to upgrade their drinking water 
infrastructure?
    What does a successful partnership look like in 
implementation of these funds?
    And how can we work with the States especially to make sure 
that their laws are in compliance with the intent of Congress?
    Thank you.
    Ms. Mathieu. Thank you. Thank you for your question.
    The smallest systems struggle the most. They struggle with 
compliance with the Safe Drinking Water Act, just the most 
basic things.
    I think a number of panelists have said it. They need 
direct technical assistance, and that may not be my engineers 
who are regulators. That may be the rural water associations, 
the circuit riders, this technical hub.
    And in not just one time and hold the night meeting and 
leave, but to stay there. You know, I have talked to many 
people who look at us as, you know, we are the bad guys. We are 
the regulators.
    But you have to meet them in their neighborhoods. You have 
to talk to the people, and you have to understand what their 
concerns are, and again, a lot of it is financial. They do need 
technical help in just completing the applications.
    And I think Mr. Adeem also said----
    Mr. O'Halleran. Ms. Mathieu, I do have limited time, and I 
do want to just say----
    Ms. Mathieu. I am sorry.
    Mr. O'Halleran [continuing]. Mr. Chairman, we have to find 
a way to make sure the States address the intent of what we are 
trying to accomplish here for rural America and tribal lands in 
America and not just concentrate on these other areas that 
already have good drinking water, and they are just trying to 
improve it a little bit more versus what we see day in and day 
out in many areas of our rural America.
    Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
    Mr. Tonko. Point well made.
    The gentleman yields back.
    And the Chair now recognizes virtually the Representative 
from the State of Florida, the gentlelady, Representative 
Castor, is recognized for 5 minutes please.
    Ms. Castor. Hi, Chair Tonko, and thank you to our panelists 
very much for discussing clean drinking water today.
    I mean, clean drinking water is central to the health and 
prosperity of families across the country, making sure that 
they can thrive and the bipartisan infrastructure law is an 
enormous achievement for President Biden and all of us, but 
most importantly, it will help our communities back home.
    So, Chair Tonko, this oversight hearing is very important. 
I appreciate you organizing it.
    Especially in the wake of the fact that we know we have 
aging pipes. It is not lost on us that the American Society of 
Civil Engineers had graded drinking water infrastructure with a 
C. It is worse in a lot of areas due to aging infrastructure.
    In my neck of the woods, in the Tampa area, we consistently 
have water main breaks and having to replace service lines.
    And now we know we also have more responsibility to get the 
lead out of the piping, to replace the lead pipes, and address 
the PFAS and other chemicals.
    But we also need to make sure that these substantial funds 
as they are distributed across the country, that they go to 
make communities more resilient; that our drinking water 
infrastructure is resilient to the rising costs and impacts of 
the climate crisis.
    And, Mr. Diaz, in your testimony, you noted the importance 
of EPA's implementation guidance for ensuring equity in climate 
resilience. EPA has said that States should prioritize 
disadvantaged communities and support projects that apply the 
best available and most geographically relevant climate 
information projections and standards, such as the Federal 
flood risk management standard.
    Communities across the country are already experiencing 
those climate fueled rising costs and impacts, whether it is 
sea level risk or more frequent and costly storms.
    So how can Congress help States and communities access 
information about climate risk and vulnerability to ensure that 
projects will be resilient into the future, to make sure that 
they are making cost effective decisions?
    And how can States prioritize the needs of environmental 
justice communities in State plans and funding allocations?
    Mr. Diaz. Thank you for that question, Congresswoman 
Castor.
    You know, climate change has a great strain on our Nation's 
water infrastructure, and the clean drinking water State 
Revolving Loan Funds are the main sources of funding for 
States, not only to update and maintain water infrastructure, 
but also to assure that this infrastructure is resilient to 
climate change.
    One study from the National Association of Clean Water 
Agencies estimated that States will need an additional 448 to 
$944 billion by 2050 to reengineer water systems to cope with 
sea level rise, extreme weather events, droughts, and floods.
    The EPA estimates that just the capital cost of clean 
drinking water infrastructure over the next 20 years is about 
$750 billion.
    We have an historic infusion in funding in the bill and 
somewhere in the ballpark of about $23.5 billion for drinking 
water and clean water State Revolving Loan Funds, and that is 
split equitably.
    This is a massive step and provides a significant down 
payment on the investment needed to upgrade our water systems.
    Ms. Castor. Well, and thank you very much.
    And, Mr. Olson, you have testified about the importance of 
addressing climate risk to water infrastructure including 
extreme weather and droughts and groundwater depletion, 
saltwater intrusion. You recommend increasing the use of 
integrated water resource management strategies to help with 
water supply and flooding and water quality in a more 
integrated way.
    How can Congress help promote that thoughtful strategy on 
integrated water resource management?
    Mr. Olson. Obviously, funding is part of it and is urgently 
needed, and unfortunately, we are going to be facing, I think, 
a nationwide crisis as we see more and more of these extreme 
storms and more of the drought conditions we are seeing in many 
parts of the country.
    So I think funding is part of it. Assistance in identifying 
where the problems are worse; we are seeing a lot of coastal 
areas like your district where you are seeing saltwater 
intrusion becoming a significant issue in many of these coastal 
areas, and as climate change happens, we are going to see more 
of that.
    So I think help with planning and technical assistance with 
planning and dealing with that are going to be key aspects of 
it. But without the funding, you are not going to solve this 
problem.
    Ms. Castor. Thank you very much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Tonko. You are most welcome.
    The gentlewoman yields back.
    The chair now recognizes the gentleman from California who 
joins us virtually. Representative McNerney, you are recognized 
for 5 minutes please.
    Mr. McNerney. Well, I thank the chairman.
    I thank the witnesses for hanging in there. I may be the 
last member. So thank you very much.
    I am very proud of the historic investment that we have 
made with the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act to improve 
the drinking water and health of our systems.
    However, the American West is in the mega drought, at least 
112 years, the worst in 112 years. 2022, in fact, has seen the 
driest January and February on record. Farmers are facing 
severe water cuts. Wells are drying up. Some communities have 
already run out of water.
    So we have to achieve long-term drought resilience, which 
requires long-term, dedicated investments. If you do not have 
water, you do not have to worry about water quality.
    So our water systems lose about 14 to 18 percent of treated 
water in leaks in the system, and an additional amount is lost 
through inefficient fixtures.
    Mr. Diaz, you spoke of the energy and financial 
implications of wasted water in your written testimony. Would 
you elaborate on the benefits of improving water efficiency and 
addressing water loss?
    Mr. Diaz. Certainly, Congressman.
    You know, the question is spending all this money to 
replace our water infrastructure truly fiscally responsible, 
and you know, in terms of lead service line replacement, you 
know, investing in lead service line replacement not only 
prevents lead poisoning and creates jobs, but also saves 
taxpayers money in the long run.
    In terms of wasted water and, you know, what the bipartisan 
infrastructure law investments do to help us preserve water 
systems through preventing water main breaks and leaks, it is 
an investment that is truly needed.
    I do not have an adequate response to your question in 
detail, but I would like to followup with your office to 
provide some more insight.
    Mr. McNerney. Very good. I appreciate that.
    Mr. Olson, would regular audits and improved data 
collection help reduce loss in drinking water systems?
    Mr. Olson. Yes. We certainly believe that one key is to 
have water loss accounting so that water systems are actually 
tracking.
    I actually looked into one system, a large system in Puerto 
Rico that said that they were losing 50 percent of the water 
that they pumped into their system as unaccounted for.
    So what we are seeing is pretty widespread problems. That 
is an extreme example, but we heard earlier just today in this 
hearing that as much as 30 percent of water is being wasted or 
lost, and that is just an unsustainable situation.
    We need to tighten up those pipes, replace the old pipes. 
We have heard about 100-plus year old pipes. They need to be 
replaced and tightened up, and we will actually save money over 
the long term if we do that.
    Mr. McNerney. Well, given the water-energy nexus, I mean, 
losing one and wasting one is wasting the other as well. So 
very important in terms of water availability and climate 
change.
    Ms. Mathieu, a 2014 GAO review found that 40 out of 50 
State water managers expected shortages in the next decade, and 
that additional uncertainty is likely with climate change.
    What additional resources do drinking water administrators 
need to plan for or need to plan for scarcities and shortages 
especially in the drought-prone areas?
    Ms. Mathieu. I think what is mission critical for public 
water systems, to have plans, to have long-term plans, to test 
their sources of supply and understand what their safe daily 
yields are, and then not to do that once 30-years ago, but to 
do that maybe every couple of years so that you understand the 
impacts of climate change.
    I think a lot of the impacts are not understood or known, 
and I think many utilities maybe across the country need to do 
more planning and invest in that planning.
    Mr. McNerney. OK. Mr. Olson, in California's Central Valley 
where my district is located nitrate pollution is becoming 
increasingly common in groundwater. Many communities have lost 
their wells to nitrate pollution
    and are now relying on water delivery.
    What kind of strategies are needed to address and mitigate 
legacy pollution in source water and groundwater?
    Mr. Olson. Well, there are basically two things that need 
to happen. One is we need to control the sources of nitrate 
pollution, which we are not doing a very good job of in so many 
communities. Over-application of fertilizer or sewage can be 
contributors.
    And we also, frankly, need to invest in fixing the nitrate 
problem where there is a legacy contamination. That means 
pretty expensive treatment. Some utilities like Des Moines, 
Iowa have had to spend tens of millions of dollars to clean up 
their nitrate contamination.
    And some smaller communities especially are going to need 
help in paying for treatment because it is not cheap.
    Mr. McNerney. OK. Well, thank you.
    My time has expired. Mr. Chairman, I am going to yield back 
to you.
    Mr. Tonko. Thank you.
    The gentleman yields back, and I believe that completes the 
list of members that have chosen to ask questions of our 
witnesses.
    I do, on behalf of the subcommittee, thank all of our 
witnesses for joining us for today's hearing. A tremendous 
information exchange, and thank you for the challenges you are 
making our way to make certain that we move forward with 
greatest progress.
    I remind members that pursuant to committee rules, they 
have ten business days by which to submit additional questions 
for the record that would be answered by our witnesses.
    I ask that our witnesses please respond promptly to any 
such questions that you may receive.
    Before we adjourn, I have a list of items that have been 
requested for unanimous consent to enter the following 
documents into the record:
    A letter from the National Rural Water Association; A 
letter from the Rural Community Assistance Partnership; A 
letter from the American Water Works Association; A letter from 
the Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies; A letter from 
industry associations; A replacement ordinance notice; A letter 
from the Department of Environmental Protection of the State of 
New Jersey; Inventory source data from the Parkersburg Utility 
Board of West Virginia; and a letter from EPA Administrator 
Mike Regan.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]
    Mr. Tonko. With that, at this time the subcommittee hearing 
is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 1:19 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
    [Material submitted for inclusion in the record follows:]
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