[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                CONNECTING AMERICA: OVERSIGHT OF THE FCC

=======================================================================




                            VIRTUAL HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATION AND
                             TECHNOLOGY

                                OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND 
                             COMMERCE
                      HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             MARCH 31, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-78
                           
                           
                           
                           
                [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]         
                
                


     Published for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce

                   govinfo.gov/committee/house-energy
                        energycommerce.house.gov
                     
                     
                               ______
                               
                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

60-331 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2026
                        







                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE

                     FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey
                                 Chairman
BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois              CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, Washington
ANNA G. ESHOO, California              Ranking Member
DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado              FRED UPTON, Michigan
MIKE DOYLE, Pennsylvania             MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas
JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois             STEVE SCALISE, Louisiana
G. K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina    ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio
DORIS O. MATSUI, California          BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky
KATHY CASTOR, Florida                DAVID B. McKINLEY, West Virginia
JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland           ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
JERRY McNERNEY, California           H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida
PAUL TONKO, New York                 BILL JOHNSON, Ohio
YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York           BILLY LONG, Missouri
KURT SCHRADER, Oregon                LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana
TONY CARDENAS, California            MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
RAUL RUIZ, California                RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina
SCOTT H. PETERS, California          TIM WALBERG, Michigan
DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan             EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia
MARC A. VEASEY, Texas                JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina
ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire         GARY J. PALMER, Alabama
ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois, Vice       NEAL P. DUNN, Florida
    Chair                            JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah
NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California    DEBBIE LESKO, Arizona
A. DONALD McEACHIN, Virginia         GREG PENCE, Indiana
LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware       DAN CRENSHAW, Texas
DARREN SOTO, Florida                 JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania
TOM O'HALLERAN, Arizona              KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota
KATHLEEN M. RICE, New York
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
KIM SCHRIER, Washington
LORI TRAHAN, Massachusetts
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas

                                 ------                                

                           Professional Staff

                   TIFFANY GUARASCIO, Staff Director
                 WAVERLY GORDON, Deputy Staff Director
                  NATE HODSON, Minority Staff Director
                  
                  
                
                  
                 
                  
                  
                 
                  
             Subcommittee on Communications and Technology

                        MIKE DOYLE, Pennsylvania
                                 Chairman
JERRY McNERNEY, California           ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio
YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York             Ranking Member
MARC A. VEASEY, Texas                STEVE SCALISE, Louisiana
A. DONALD McEACHIN, Virginia         BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky
DARREN SOTO, Florida                 ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
TOM O'HALLERAN, Arizona              GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida
KATHLEEN M. RICE, New York           BILL JOHNSON, Ohio
ANNA G. ESHOO, California            BILLY LONG, Missouri
G. K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina    RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina
DORIS O. MATSUI, California, Vice    MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
    Chair                            TIM WALBERG, Michigan
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia
KURT SCHRADER, Oregon                JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina
TONY CARDENAS, California            JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah
ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois             CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, Washington 
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota                   (ex officio)
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey (ex 
    officio)
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
                             C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hon. Mike Doyle, a Representative in Congress from the 
  Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, opening statement................     2
    Prepared statement...........................................     5
Hon. Robert E Latta, a Representative in Congress from the State 
  of Ohio, opening statement.....................................     7
    Prepared statement...........................................     9
Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the 
  State of New Jersey, opening statement.........................    15
    Prepared statement...........................................    17
Hon. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, a Representative in Congress from 
  the State of Washington, opening statement.....................    19
    Prepared statement...........................................    21

                               Witnesses

Jessica Rosenworcel, Chairwoman, Federal Communications 
  Commission, Subcommittee on Communications and Technology 
  Committee on Energy and Commerce...............................    26
    Prepared statement...........................................    29
    Answers to submitted questions...............................   132
Brendan Carr, Commissioner, Federal Communications Commission, 
  Connecting America: Oversight of the FCC.......................    33
    Prepared statement...........................................    35
    Answers to submitted questions...............................   160
Geoffrey Starks, Commissioner, Federal Communications Commission, 
  Connecting America: Oversight of the FCC, Washington, DC.......    42
    Prepared statement...........................................    44
    Answers to submitted questions...............................   168
Nathan Simington, Commissioner, Federal Communications 
  Commission, Oversight of the Federal Communications Commission.    47
    Prepared statement...........................................    50
    Answers to submitted questions...............................   173

                           Submitted Material

Letter of March 29, 2022, from Wade Henderson Interim President 
  and CEO and Jesselyn McCurdy, Executive Vice President of 
  Government Affairs, the Leadership Conference on Civil and 
  Human Rights, to Mr. Pallone., et al., submitted by Mr. Doyle..   104
Statement of March 23, 2022, by Michael O'Rielly, MPORielly 
  Consulting Inc., submitted by Mr. Doyle........................   108
Article ``Broadcasters Can't Have It Both Ways on Compensation 
  for Creators,'' by Congressman Joe Crowley, submitted by Mr. 
  Doyle..........................................................   111
Article ``Even OTA Radio Doesn't Buy Its Claims Against Fair Pay 
  for Music,'' by Neil Fried, submitted by Mr. Doyle.............   117
Letter of March 29, 2022, to Ms. Cantwell, et al., from 11 
  Organizations, submitted by Mr. Doyle..........................   122
Letter of March 31, 2022, by Tom Quaadman, Executive Vice 
  President, Chamber Technology Engagement Center, U.S. Chamber 
  of Commerce, to Mr. Doyle and submitted by Mr. Doyle...........   124
Letter of May 28, 2010, from Mr. Pallone to Former FCC Chairman 
  Genachowski, submitted by Mr. Doyle............................   127
Letter of August 6, 2021, from Members of Congress, to Secretary 
  Raimondo, submitted by Mr. Doyle...............................   129








 
                CONNECTING AMERICA: OVERSIGHT OF THE FCC

                              ----------                              


                        THURSDAY, MARCH 31, 2022

                  House of Representatives,
     Subcommittee on Communications and Technology,
                          Committee on Energy and Commerce,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:31 a.m. in 
the John D. Dingell Room, 2123 Rayburn House Office Building, 
and remotely via Cisco Webex online video conferencing, Hon. 
Michael F. Doyle, (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Members present: Representatives Doyle, McNerney, Clarke, 
Veasey, Soto, O'Halleran, Rice, Eshoo, Butterfield, Matsui, 
Welch, Schrader, Cardenas, Kelly, Craig, Fletcher, Pallone (ex 
officio); Latta (subcommittee ranking member), Guthrie, 
Kinzinger, Bilirakis, Johnson, Long, Mullin, Walberg, Carter, 
Duncan, and Rodgers (ex officio).
    Also present: Representatives Dingell, Trahan; Joyce, and 
Pence.
    Staff present: Parul Desai, FCC Detailee; Jennifer 
Epperson, Senior Counsel; Waverly Gordon, Deputy Staff Director 
and General Counsel; Tiffany Guarascio, Staff Director; Zach 
Kahan, Deputy Director Outreach and Member Service; Hank 
Kilgore, Policy Coordinator; Mackenzie Kuhl, Press Assistant; 
Jerry Leverich, Chief Counsel, Communications and Technology; 
Dan Miller, Professional Staff Member; Joe Orlando, Policy 
Analyst; Chloe Rodriguez, Clerk; Johanna Thomas, Counsel; 
Caroline Wood, Staff Assistant; Sarah Burke, Minority Deputy 
Staff Director; Michael Cameron, Minority Policy Analyst, 
Consumer Protection And Commerce, Energy, Environment; William 
Clutterbuck, Minority Staff Assistant/Policy Analyst; Theresa 
Gambo, Minority Financial and Office Administrator; Jack 
Heretik, Minority Press Secretary; Nate Hodson, Minority Staff 
Director; Sean Kelly, Minority Press Secretary; Peter Kielty, 
Minority General Counsel; Emily King, Minority Member Services 
Director; Bijan Koohmaraie, Minority Chief Counsel, Oversight 
and Investigation Chief Counsel; Tim Kurth, Minority Chief 
Counsel, Consumer Protection And Commerce; Clare Paoletta, 
Minority Policy Analyst, Health; Olivia Shields, Minority 
Communications Director; Michael Taggart, Minority Policy 
Director; Everett Winnick, Minority Director of Information 
Technology; Evan Viau, Minority Professional Staff Member, 
Communications and Technology; and Kate O'Connor, Minority 
Chief Counsel, Communications and Technology.
    Mr. Doyle. The Subcommittee on Communications and 
Technology will now come to order. Today the Subcommittee on 
Communications and Technology is holding a hearing entitled, 
``Connecting America: Oversight of the FCC.''
    Due to the COVID-19 public health emergency, members can 
participate in today's hearing either in person or remotely, 
via online video conferencing.
    In accordance with the updated guidance issued by the 
attending physician, members, staff, and members of the press 
present in the hearing room are not required to wear a mask, 
although you can do so if you want to.
    For members participating remotely, your microphones will 
be set on mute for the purpose of eliminating inadvertent 
background noise. Members participating remotely will need to 
unmute your microphone each time you wish to speak. Please note 
that, once you unmute your microphone, anything that is said in 
Webex will be heard over the loudspeakers in the committee 
room, and subject to be heard by the livestream and C-SPAN.
    Since members are participating from different locations at 
today's hearing, all recognition of members, such as four 
questions, will be in the order of subcommittee seniority.
    Documents for the record can be sent to Joe Orlando at the 
email address we have provided to staff. All documents will be 
entered into the record at the conclusion of the hearing.
    The Chair will now recognize himself for 5 minutes for an 
opening statement.

   OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE DOYLE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
         CONGRESS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

    Well, welcome to today's hearing to provide oversight of 
the Federal Communications Commission. I am glad to have 
Chairwoman Rosenworcel and Commissioners Carr, Starks, and 
Simington with us today.
    It is great to have you all here, especially now that the 
President finally took my advice and made Ms. Rosenworcel the 
permanent chairwoman of the Commission. I am sure he had lots 
of other advice besides mine. It is an incredible deserved--it 
is an incredibly deserved honor, and I think the bipartisan 
work of the Commission during this period is a testament to 
that.
    I hope soon the Senate will confirm Gigi Sohn also to bring 
the Commission to full strength. Ms. Sohn's knowledge of 
communications policy and dedication to consumer protection are 
exemplary. The FCC and the American public will be well served 
with her nomination.
    And I also want to commend all four of you for your 
outstanding bipartisan work to deliver for the American people 
as you await your fifth colleague.
    The FCC has a broad mission: regulating communications by 
wire, radio, satellite, and cable with a mandate to promote 
competition, investment, diversity, and security in our 
Nation's communication networks. It is also the congressionally 
designated body to regulate commercial spectrum and make 
spectrum assignments. The FCC should be applauded for tackling 
such a wide array of duties with the limited budget and staff 
it is afforded.
    Broadband is an essential, necessary service for Americans, 
for their jobs, for schooling, for health care, and for civic 
participation in our country. With this in mind, Congress made 
historic investments through the CARES Act, the 2020 omnibus, 
and the American Rescue Plan, and the Infrastructure Investment 
and Jobs Act to connect our schools, students, low-income 
households, tribal communities, and those in need of health 
care services. This makes the FCC's position as the national 
regulatory authority on broadband more important than ever.
    Under the bipartisan work of this FCC, enormous strides 
have been made in the adoption of the Affordable Connectivity 
Program, as nearly 11 million households have signed up. The 
Emergency Connectivity Fund has already put over $5 billion 
toward connectivity for our Nation's schools, libraries, and 
students. And I commend the Commission for getting this money 
out quickly and efficiently.
    And now that the FCC has successfully overcome a bid 
protest, the Commission can finally move forward with more of 
its broadband mapping activities, which will be crucial for the 
NTIA to distribute the $42 billion for broadband access in its 
BEAD program.
    As with our Nation's other communication technologies, it 
is critical that the FCC ensure that the core principles of the 
Communication Act run throughout broadband policy: consumer 
protection, competition, universal service, and public safety.
    The FCC should use all of its tools to re-establish its 
consumer protection authorities over broadband, including by 
prohibiting unfair and unjust practices, and continuing to 
fight against robocalls and robo texts.
    It should promote competition in the broadband marketplace. 
so consumers can benefit from choice and the expanded services 
and lower costs the competition brings.
    It should pursue universal service by ensuring that all 
consumers have access to reliable, affordable broadband, and to 
prohibit practices that hinder broadband deployment.
    And it should continue its support of the public safety and 
commitment to our first responders and law enforcement 
officials. and secure our networks from untrustworthy 
equipment.
    Finally, I applaud your recent work with the NTIA on the 
Spectrum Coordination Initiative. Congress designed the FCC as 
the overseer of commercial spectrum and tasked it with 
determining the highest and most efficient use of spectrum. It 
has a long history of basing its decisions on the science and 
engineering facts brought before it, and we need to bolster its 
spectrum management processes that have made the United States 
the global leader in technology.
    To that end, I hope we can revisit the lower 3 gigahertz 
band in a way to both protect the incumbent users and maximize 
commercial use as envisioned in the Spectrum Innovation Act. 
And Congress should re-authorize the FCC's authority to conduct 
auctions, particularly in light of the upcoming 2.5 gigahertz 
auction that is so important to 5G and the rural wireless 
community.
    This committee has entrusted the Commission with a great 
deal of responsibility, and it is going to take all of us 
working together to successfully connect all of our 
communities, protect our constituents, and ensure the continued 
leadership of the United States.
    Thank you to the Commissioners for coming before us today. 
I look forward to hearing your testimony.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Doyle follows:]

                 Prepared Statement of Hon. Mike Doyle
                 
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Doyle. And now it gives me great pleasure to recognize 
my good friend, Ranking Member Latta.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT E. LATTA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
                CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OHIO

    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I really 
appreciate this hearing today. And also, thanks to our 
Commissioners for being with us today.
    And, you know, this is the first FCC oversight hearing held 
by the Communications and Technology Subcommittee this 
Congress. And again, I want to congratulate you, Madam Chair, 
for your confirmation; Commissioner Simington, for your first 
visit here with us; and also, I want to thank Commissioner Carr 
for coming out to the district again to see what is happening, 
especially during COVID. So I really appreciate it.
    Well, it has been a year-and-a-half since the Commission 
last testified before us. Much has happened in the 
communications industry, and we have many important topics to 
cover today. Since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, Congress 
appropriated billions of dollars to the FCC to establish 
programs to connect low-income Americans to the Internet for 
distance learning and telehealth. We also appropriated tens of 
billions of dollars across the Federal agencies to expand 
broadband infrastructure across the United States.
    While these programs were necessary at the time to help 
Americans stay connected through the pandemic, it is 
encouraging that broadband prices in the United States continue 
to become more affordable, thanks to the private sector 
offerings. Recent government and industry data confirm that, 
when adjusted for inflation, the cost of broadband is 
decreasing while speeds are increasing. In fact, the $30 per 
month subsidy that will be available to Americans through the 
Affordable Connectivity Program is higher than the cost of 
plans being offered by certain broadband providers. That 
doesn't quite seem to add up.
    What is clear is why adoption continues to be a problem. If 
cost is the primary driver of non-adoption, then, 
theoretically, every American who has broadband services 
offered in their community should have broadband. But that is 
not the case. And we need to seriously consider what role, if 
any, the government should play in encouraging adoption, given 
the numerous private sector programs that are now in place.
    We need to continue to focus on deploying broadband where 
it doesn't exist. As agencies implement programs authorized in 
the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, it is imperative 
that we do not pick winners and losers. And let me say it 
again: We cannot pick winners and losers. And existing programs 
like the Rural Digital Opportunity Fund are not undermined. 
With the investment landscape changing, it is essential for 
Federal agencies to rely on the FCC's forthcoming broadband 
maps to avoid overbuilding on federally subsidized duplicate 
projects.
    Given the incredible volume of work the FCC has completed 
in establishing new programs in a short period of time, it is 
critical that the FCC is transparent, responsible to this 
committee in a timely manner. The amount of money that is 
appropriated is ripe for waste, fraud, and abuse. Our diligent 
oversight is absolutely essential to ensure that that does not 
happen. We have already seen the FCC's Office of Inspector 
General publicly raise instances of fraud, risk in the 
emergency broadband benefit program. As the Affordable 
Connectivity Program and other programs are implemented, we 
will be following this work quite closely.
    I appreciate this Commission has continued the work of the 
previous Administration by increasing transparency, and has 
already accomplished bipartisan work. I hope to see this 
bipartisanship continue if and when the Commission gets its 
fifth Commissioner.
    Apart from COVID response, the FCC has many important 
missions, from expanding rural broadband through the Universal 
Service Fund, and leading broadband mapping efforts to managing 
non-Federal spectrum, and combating unlawful robocalls. In 
addition to these ongoing responsibilities, the FCC has several 
immediate issues that it needs to address.
    First, Congress enacted the Secure and Trusted 
Communication Networks Act in 2020 to prevent USF funds from 
being used for purchase of hardware or services for 
communication networks that pose an unacceptable risk to 
national security. It also established a reimbursement program 
to assist small providers with removal and replacement of this 
vulnerable equipment. Unfortunately, the demand for this--for 
these reimbursements significantly outstripped the initial 
estimates. And the FCC should keep Congress apprised of any 
shortfall that remains once the applications are reviewed, as 
well as how these funds are intended to be spent.
    Second, Congress enacted the TRACED Act in 2019 to combat 
the scourge of illegal robocalls. Congress, the FCC, and 
private industry have made this a top priority, and several 
advances have been made, both in the government's response and 
in action by voice providers to stop calls before they even get 
to your phone. Despite this progress, more must be done to 
ensure that illegal robocalls don't slip through the cracks, 
and that they are blocked so that legitimate calls are able to 
get to the Americans who need them. As Congress looks to build 
on the tools that the TRACED Act provided, I encourage the FCC 
to work with my colleagues and me to ensure that the proper 
tools are available to both regulators and private industry.
    I look forward to discussing these important issues before 
the Commission, and I want to thank the Commissioners and the 
chairman for this hearing today. Thanks for being with us.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Latta follows:]

               Prepared Statement of Hon. Robert E. Latta
               
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes 
Mr. Pallone, chairman of the full committee, for 5 minutes for 
his opening statement.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK PALLONE, Jr., A REPRESENTATIVE 
            IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY

    Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Chairman Doyle. This is the first 
oversight hearing of the SEC since Chairwoman Rosenworcel has 
taken the agency's helm. And while it was my hope to have a 
full five-member Commission with us today, we are glad to have 
the four of you here.
    And I want to begin by congratulating the chairwoman on 
becoming chair of the FCC, the first woman to be named to the 
position on a permanent basis, and it is much deserved. And the 
work the Commission has accomplished under your leadership has 
not gone unnoticed.
    As the chief regulator of our communications networks, it 
is more important than ever that the FCC prioritize protecting 
consumers. Over the past two years, since the beginning of the 
COVID-19 pandemic, broadband and connectivity has proven 
essential to everyone's lives. And that is not going to change. 
Whether it is telework, telehealth, commerce, or video calls 
with friends and family, high-speed, reliable broadband service 
is fundamental, not just to our daily connections, but also 
economic opportunity and American global leadership.
    Unfortunately, the pandemic has also highlighted the 
massive disparities faced by individuals and families without 
reliable home Internet access. It is an issue that we on this 
committee, both Democrats and Republicans, have talked about 
for a long time. And that is why I am proud that we stood 
together to enact the Emergency Broadband Benefit Program, 
which is now a long-term program known as the Affordable 
Connectivity Program. And this new long-term program was 
created thanks to passage of the bipartisan infrastructure law. 
As of today, the Affordable Connectivity Program is helping 
more than ten million households afford monthly internet 
service. And working together, I believe we can push that 
number even higher.
    I am also proud that last year we invested in the 
educational opportunities of students by enacting the Emergency 
Connectivity Fund as part of the American Rescue Plan. In 
today's classroom, a home internet connection is just as 
essential as a textbook or a pencil, and we should no longer 
accept that millions of students must sit in a parking lot to 
access this fundamental educational tool.
    If I could talk about my home State of New Jersey, over 
$122 million in funding has distributed--has been distributed 
to schools and libraries to ensure that students can connect to 
the internet at home, allowing them to take advantage of online 
learning and do their homework. And these funds are critical to 
helping fulfill the promise of--our nation's students have a 
quality education that can open the door to opportunity and 
success.
    And I have to say, Chairwoman, I think we put out, I don't 
know, you know, out of the district office in New Jersey, I 
think we put out, like, 10 or 12, you know, press things, or 
social media every time a new school, a new library, or 
whatever gets awarded, because people are just so into it, and 
you know, they--it is so important to them.
    Now, these broadband affordability programs have been 
implemented by the FCC on a bipartisan basis, as have other 
actions over the past year, actions that put the consumer 
first.
    The FCC is increasing pricing transparency by requiring the 
so-called broadband nutrition label to allow consumers to 
quickly and easily compare service plans.
    It also recently adopted rules to help the millions of 
Americans who live in apartments and condominium buildings by 
promoting broadband provider competition in those buildings, 
and opened an examination into how the outrageous practice of 
digital discrimination could be prevented. And these are all 
actions that will help consumers.
    The FCC's work on behalf of the public also includes its 
vigilance in securing our communications networks under the 
Secure and Trusted Communications Networks Act and the Secure 
Equipment Act.
    And we also charged the Commission with implementing the 
Broadband Data Act, which will be critical to ensuring we have 
accurate maps when it comes to distributing the more than $40 
billion that Congress appropriated for broadband in the 
bipartisan infrastructure law.
    So, again, I want to congratulate the entire Commission for 
your recent victory in the bid protest case that the GAO--that 
put a hold on some progress with respect to these maps. And I 
also want to note the agency's good work increasing 
coordination and collaboration with the NTIA to ensure the 
Federal Government is competently managing our spectrum, and 
speaking with one voice on these important issues.
    So the FCC has accomplished so much. I mean, I just--I know 
there has been a lot, but when I listed it today I was just 
even more impressed.
    And of course, there is more to be done, and we do need the 
fifth Commissioner. So I hope that seat is filled quickly, and 
it is past time that FCC assume its place as the agency with 
expertise to oversee broadband service providers, and with the 
authority to adopt rules to protect consumers.
    So that is what you are doing, and I just want to commend 
you again, and thank the four Commissioners for being here 
today.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pallone follows:]

             Prepared Statement of Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr.
             
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Pallone. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes 
Mrs. Rodgers, the ranking member of the full committee, for 5 
minutes for her opening statement.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, A 
    REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF WASHINGTON

    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, everyone.
    I too want to congratulate the new Chairwoman Rosenworcel 
for your appointment and chairmanship, and to Mr. Simington on 
your first appearance as FCC Commissioner before the Energy and 
Commerce Committee.
    The COVID-19 pandemic put an unprecedented demand on our 
communications network. Overnight, Americans' lives 
translined--transitioned online for work, school, and to stay 
connected to family and friends. Thanks to the great work and 
private investment of U.S. communication providers, our 
networks withstood this stress test.
    Since 2017, broadband providers invested more than $300 
billion into upgrading and expanding our networks. Since 2015, 
broadband speeds for the most popular service tier have more 
than doubled. And according to the most recent FCC data, the 
digital divide closed by 14 percent between the end of 2016 and 
the end of 2019. At the same time, the price of service 
decreased. Companies continue to offer discounted plans for 
low-income Americans at speeds fast enough to support streaming 
and working from home. And when the cost of virtually 
everything is skyrocketing because of inflation, the inflation-
adjusted cost of broadband service has decreased by 34 percent 
since 2015.
    On top of this private sector response, Congress acted to 
help connect Americans. Congress provided the FCC $450 million 
to expand networks and provide devices to enable telehealth 
services, and established the $3.2 billion emergency broadband 
benefit to keep low-income Americans struggling due to the 
pandemic connected.
    The infrastructure bill then extended the duration of this 
program, known as the Affordable Connectivity Program, and 
provided the FCC with an additional $14.2 billion to subsidize 
broadband service.
    Combined with the reduced offerings by the private sector, 
broadband service is free for many low-income Americans. At a 
time when people have lost their jobs and were stuck at home, 
these bipartisan programs provided necessary relief to make 
sure they could stay connected during the pandemic. Now we must 
make sure these funds are not subject to waste, fraud, and 
abuse, and get Americans back to work and off of these 
temporary COVID-era government subsidy programs.
    The success of our broadband performance, deployment, and 
affordability is largely due to the actions taken by the Trump 
Administration and Republican FCC to roll back regulations. In 
2017, then-FCC Chairman Pai rescinded the strict net neutrality 
regulations that were enacted during the Obama administration, 
which promoted investment in our broadband networks. It allowed 
our networks in the United States to withstand the COVID-19 
stress test, while our allies in Europe struggled to keep up, 
due to their burdensome net neutrality regulations, which some 
Democrats continue to advocate for here.
    Rather than expanding government command and control into 
the broadband marketplace, let's learn from this pandemic, and 
continue on the path of deregulation. We should not ignore the 
success that private sector innovation yielded, and revert to 
heavy handed regulations.
    We have the opportunity to work together on ways to promote 
innovation and U.S. leadership in technology. I am excited to 
be working with Chairman Pallone on my legislative discussion 
draft, the Satellite and Telecommunications Streamlining Act. 
It updates and streamlines the FCC's satellite licensing rules 
to encourage satellite investment in the United States.
    Satellite technology is a viable solution to providing 
connectivity in hard-to-reach areas with speeds Americans need. 
Let's encourage this and more innovation, and make sure our 
policies and regulations keep pace.
    The FCC is at the forefront of making sure all Americans 
are connected. Congress tasked the FCC with updating its 
broadband maps to accurately reflect where broadband exists in 
the United States and where it does not. Without these maps, 
and without removing regulatory and other barriers to 
deployment, the $45 billion that Congress appropriated for the 
broadband deployment may be wasted. We cannot let that happen.
    It is crucial that the FCC complete the maps as soon as 
possible, and share the data with agencies that were awarded 
broadband funds. We need to make sure that the money gets to 
where it is needed. We need to make sure recipients can deploy 
quickly and efficiently. All agencies awarded broadband funding 
should use these maps to get it right.
    I look forward to today's discussion on these important 
topics, and look forward to working together with the members 
of this committee.
    [The prepared statement of Mrs. Rodgers follows:]

           Prepared Statement of Hon. Cathy McMorris Rodgers
           
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    Mrs. Rodgers. I yield back, thank you.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair would like 
to remind members that, pursuant to committee rules, all 
Members' written opening statements shall be made part of the 
record.
    So I would now like to introduce our witnesses for today's 
hearing.
    First we have Hon. Jessica Rosenworcel, chairwoman of the 
Federal Communications Commission, joined by Commissioner 
Brendan Carr--welcome--and Commissioner Simington. And joining 
us virtually is the Commissioner Geoffrey Starks.
    At this time the Chair will recognize each witness for 5 
minutes to provide their opening statement.
    Before we begin, I would like to explain the lighting 
system, since it has been a while since we have all been here 
together. There is a series of lights. It will initially be 
green. The light will turn yellow when you have a minute 
remaining. After that we ask you to start to wrap up your 
testimony. The light will turn red when your time expires. And 
if you continue speaking, there are trap doors under your seats 
that will take you down to the Rayburn subway, and whisk you 
out of here.
    So I would ask my colleagues also on the panel here to try 
to observe the 5-minute rule, also.
    So we have witnesses appearing virtually. So I need to ask 
my colleagues in the hearing room to mute themselves whenever 
they are not directly speaking during their question-and-answer 
portion so we can clearly hear all the witnesses' response.
    So, we will start with our chairwoman. You are now 
recognized for 5 minutes.


  STATEMENT OF HON. JESSICA ROSENWORCEL, CHAIRWOMAN, FEDERAL 
  COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION; HON. BRENDAN CARR, COMMISSIONER, 
   FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION; HON. GEOFFREY STARKS, 
   COMMISSIONER, FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION; AND HON. 
    NATHAN SIMINGTON, COMMISSIONER, FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS 
                           COMMISSION

                STATEMENT OF JESSICA ROSENWORCEL

    Ms. Rosenworcel. Good morning, Chairman Pallone, Ranking 
Member Rodgers, Chairman Doyle, Ranking Member Latta, and 
members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to 
appear before you today. And it is a treat to be here in 
person.
    While I have been at this table many times, this is my 
first time as chairwoman of the FCC, and it is an honor to 
serve in this role at a time when the connections that unite us 
all, physical and digital, have never been more important.
    I believe that there are four essential values in 
communications: universal access, public safety, competition, 
and consumer protection. Today I want to tell you what we have 
done to advance these principles at the FCC.
    First, universal access. The pandemic has proven with total 
clarity that broadband is no longer just nice to have. It is 
need to have for everyone everywhere. In response to this 
crisis, and with the help of Congress, the FCC did something 
historic. We set up the Nation's largest-ever broadband 
affordability program. What is now known as the Affordable 
Connectivity Program is helping 11 million households get 
online and stay online.
    We also made history addressing a problem I call the 
homework gap, the especially cruel digital divide between 
students who have access to the internet at home and those who 
do not. You know who these children are, because you see them 
lingering in the library parking lot to catch the free Wi-Fi 
signal, and you see them sliding into the booths of fast food 
restaurants to do their homework with a side of fries. During 
the pandemic the homework gap became an educational chasm. But 
with the help of Congress, we set up the Emergency Connectivity 
Fund to get these kids services and devices. And so far it has 
helped more than 12 million students.
    In addition, with help from Congress, we have supported 
universal access to telehealth technologies, expanding remote 
diagnosing and monitoring of patients in every State across the 
country.
    Second, public safety. In the aftermath of Hurricane Ida, 
we proposed new rules for network resiliency. We recommitted to 
spectrum for public safety in the 4.9 gigahertz band. And I 
have also proposed, with the support of first responders, that 
when Congress re-authorizes the agency spectrum auction 
authority, it commit the funds raised from our public airwaves 
to public safety, with a nationwide upgrade to next generation 
911.
    We also have made strides when it comes to national 
security. We kicked off the Nation's first inquiry into Open 
RAN systems. We launched a first-of-its-kind program to remove 
insecure equipment from two Chinese vendors from our domestic 
networks. We revoked the authorizations of four companies 
because our national security agencies determined that they 
could be subject to exploitation, influence, and control by a 
foreign government.
    We rechartered the Communications Security, Reliability, 
and Interoperability Council, and gave it a 5G focus. And for 
the first time, this group is being co-chaired by the 
Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency. And last week 
we updated our covered list of communications equipment and 
services that pose an unacceptable risk to national security 
and may not be used in our universal service programs. And for 
the first time, we included a Russian software company.
    Third, competition. To advance competition in our wireless 
economy we have moved aggressively to free up spectrum for new 
5G services. Earlier this year we concluded a successful 
auction of 100 prime mid-band span--mid-band spectrum in the 
3.45 gigahertz band. And just last week I announced we are 
going to hold another mid-band auction in the 2.5 gigahertz 
band. We also identified spectrum for the first time to support 
increased competition for commercial space launch in order to 
support innovation in our new space age.
    But I recognize that we are not going to be able to do all 
this wireless work alone. We need a whole-of-government 
approach. That is why, last month, the FCC and NTIA announced a 
new and, frankly, much needed spectrum coordination initiative.
    Fourth, consumer protection. We are creating a broadband 
nutrition label that is going to make it easy for consumers to 
compare and purchase services for themselves and their 
families. We have updated our rules to support broadband 
competition for the one-third of us that live in multi-tenant 
units like apartment buildings. And we are putting an end to 
exclusive sweetheart deals that are sometimes cut by landlords 
that deny consumers their choice of broadband provider.
    Finally, we have prioritized fundamental issues of 
communications equity, and started an agency-wide proceeding to 
address digital discrimination, aided by our Communications 
Equity and Diversity Council.
    So over the course of the year, we have made real progress. 
The four of us have turned down the volume and ramped up the 
work. Still, I know there is a lot left to do and a full 
Commission of five is an important part of achieving those 
results.
    So thank you for the opportunity to appear before you 
today. I look forward to any questions that you might have.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Rosenworcel follows:]

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    Mr. Doyle. The chairwoman yields back. Thank you very much.
    The Chair now recognizes Commissioner Carr for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF BRENDAN CARR

    Mr. Carr. Thank you, Chairman Doyle, Ranking Member Latta, 
Chairman Pallone, Republican Leader Rodgers, distinguished 
members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the chance to 
testify.
    And I want to start by offering my congratulations, as 
well, to the Chair on her first time to testify as Chair before 
the committee.
    Since we all last testified, my FCC colleagues and I have 
been busy delivering on priorities that you and Congress have 
identified. We have promoted competition in the broadband 
market, including by giving Americans that live in apartments, 
in public housing more choice for high speed service.
    On spectrum we have worked together on a successful auction 
of mid-band airwaves earlier this year, and have another one 
set for this summer.
    On telehealth, we have extended the lifesaving benefits of 
this technology by awarding $550 million to telehealth/telecare 
providers. We have taken bipartisan action, as well, to close 
the affordability portion of the digital divide, standing up a 
record setting $24 billion in new, low-income initiatives.
    And we have come together to advance our national security, 
as well. Over the last five months alone, we revoked the 
operating authority of four different carriers that posed 
threats.
    Of course, there is more we can do to extend America's 
leadership. That is why I included a series of ideas in my 
testimony on spectrum, infrastructure, and national security 
that are ripe for action.
    Outside the FCC there are some emerging trends that concern 
me. I will start with the effort by agencies to deviate from 
the clear statutory process that Congress established for 
regulating our Nation's airwaves. Congress long ago determined 
that an independent expert agency, the FCC, makes the final 
call on these rules. Yet on C-Band, executive branch agencies 
turned Congress's decision aside, and broke from this tried-
and-true process at the last minute. They replaced the FCC's 
rules with ones dictated behind closed doors.
    It is no surprise, then, that this chaotic approach 
resulted in 5G infrastructure laying fallow, and canceled 
flights. And it is part of a dysfunctional trend, frankly, 
among agencies that disagree with the process that Congress 
established for reaching sound spectrum decisions.
    As Chairman Doyle and Ranking Member Latta recently 
indicated in an op ed, we should all stand up for the statutory 
process. Otherwise, we are only inviting agencies to engage in 
additional actions that can derail U.S. 5G leadership.
    Turning from spectrum to the executive branch's 
infrastructure efforts, I am concerned that Federal Government 
is failing to put appropriate guardrails in place. By my count, 
we now have over $800 billion that could be used for broadband 
efforts, and those funds are spread across a range of different 
agencies. I see several problems.
    First, there is little coordination across agencies.
    Second, there is an absence of adequate controls in place. 
Indeed, one executive branch department told me that they 
weren't even tracking how much money had gone toward broadband.
    Third, many of the policies are poised to leave rural 
communities behind. And this is because the Administration gave 
the green light to overbuild existing high-speed networks in 
communities that already have multiple broadband providers.
    Fourth, I am concerned that we are going to see record-
setting levels of waste, fraud, and abuse. The FCC's inspector 
general already issued a troubling report about one of our new 
programs. And we can't waste resources here, particularly 
because of the supply chain and workforce shortages that are 
yet to be solved.
    Finally, I want to commend the committee members that are 
working to hold Big Tech accountable. Leader McMorris Rodgers 
and her colleagues have a smart set of bills that would end Big 
Tech's abusive practices, while promoting more speech on the 
internet.
    Reining in Big Tech is key, because we now have a handful 
of corporations with state-like influence that shape everything 
from the information we consume to the places we shop. These 
corporate behemoths are not merely exercising market power; 
they are abusing dominant positions. They are not simply 
prevailing in the free market; they are taking advantage of a 
landscape that has been skewed by the government to favor their 
business models.
    Indeed, it is hard to imagine another industry where a 
greater gap exists between power and accountability. And that 
is why Congress needs to act, from 230 reform to transparency 
to non-discrimination rules, to empowering consumers to make 
their own decisions about content moderation by letting them 
choose their own content filters or none at all. These steps 
will go a long way in bringing long-overdue accountability to 
Big Tech.
    So in closing, I want to thank you for the opportunity to 
testify, and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Carr follows:]
    
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    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair will now 
recognize, virtually, Commissioner Starks.
    You are recognized for 5 minutes.

                  STATEMENT OF GEOFFREY STARKS

    Mr. Starks. Thank you, Chairman Doyle, Ranking Member 
Latta, Chairman Pallone, Ranking Member McMorris Rodgers, and 
members of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to 
appear before you here today.
    Congratulations, as well, to Chairwoman Rosenworcel on your 
first oversight hearing.
    We stand, truly, at an inflection point in history: first, 
the COVID-19 pandemic has transformed the way we work, learn, 
and connect with each other; second, the challenges of our day 
make clear that network security has never been more important; 
and finally, the consequences of climate change are becoming 
alarmingly clear. The FCC has an indispensable role to play on 
each of these fronts. And for my part, I am proud to say that 
we are helping make America more equitable, more secure, and 
more sustainable.
    Our longstanding do to divide has morphed into a monstrous 
COVID-19 divide. And like so many other aspects of the 
pandemic, the lack of access to and adoption of home broadband 
has reinforced existing inequities. In particular, low-income 
and Americans of color remain, by a wide margin, less likely to 
have a home broadband connection than their counterparts. The 
14.2 billion Affordable Connectivity Program is changing that, 
converting EBB to a pandemic-focused long-term part of the 
FCC's work.
    And the chairwoman, along with my colleagues, supported my 
proposal to start work on an ACP pilot program to expand 
participation by households that benefit from Federal public 
housing assistance. That is more than five million households 
that benefit from Federal rental assistance, and that includes 
public housing and section 8, the Housing Choice Voucher 
program. And I plan to focus my efforts here where there, I 
believe, is a clear synergy between housing and connectivity. 
If we are helping a family secure housing, we should be able to 
help them secure an online connection in that home.
    As we increase access to our broadband networks, we must 
also ensure that those networks are secure. I am particularly 
proud of the work we have done to remove untrustworthy 
equipment from our networks, and deny or revoke telecom 
operating authority for every carrier identified by Team 
Telecom.
    But our work is not complete. I have called for the 
Commission to work with Congress and the Administration to 
examine how to tackle network security threats like foreign-
owned data centers. In cooperation with the relevant executive 
branch agencies, the Commission should commence an inquiry to 
identify all U.S.-based data centers owned and operated by 
companies subject to the laws and jurisdiction of adversary 
states; identify on a confidential basis the services provided 
by these data centers and their customers; third, ascertain 
whether the data centers present a risk of interception, 
tampering, or blocking of U.S. communications and information; 
and last, identify any legal authority of the FCC or any other 
regulatory body to protect the U.S. communications stored 
within or transit these data centers.
    For example, executive order 13873 delegates authority to 
Commerce over transactions involving information in the ICT 
that pose national security risks. The Commission itself also 
might have oversight through its licensing authority for 
undersea cable landing sites, given that data centers, as well 
as those overseas, rely on such cables to transmit information 
between the U.S. and the rest of the world.
    Finally, I have to address another issue that will define 
our shared and collective future, and that is the environment, 
and the important role that I see the telecommunications and 
technology sector playing. Here there are at least, I think, 
four ways that we can drive impact.
    First, we continue to optimize the efficient use of 
spectrum, a finite resource, while at the same time enabling 
devices that draw less power. Spectral efficiency and saving 
energy are a must have here, doing more while using less.
    Second, 5G and the use cases we envision are in 
manufacturing. Precision agriculture and energy could 
contribute 20 percent toward U.S. emissions reductions by 2025.
    Third, public-private partnerships are already hard at 
work, including the infrastructure legislation's 500 million in 
DoT awards to support the ongoing efforts by smart cities to 
use wireless IoT sensors to reduce traffic congestion and 
energy usage.
    Fourth, industry-led initiatives will continue to play a 
significant role, from reducing or eliminating carbon emissions 
associated with their operations to increasing the use of 
renewable energy and minimizing electronic waste.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Starks follows:]
    
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    Mr. Starks. Thank you so much for inviting me today. I was 
looking forward to joining the committee in person, but, 
unfortunately, like many, I have a sick child here at home, and 
so it necessitates that I join virtually. But thank you, and I 
look forward to your questions.
    Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Commissioner, and I hope your little 
one is feeling better.
    We will now recognize Commissioner Simington for 5 minutes.

                 STATEMENT OF NATHAN SIMINGTON

    Mr. Simington. Thank you, Chairman Pallone, Ranking Member 
Rodgers, Chairman Doyle, Ranking Member Latta, and 
distinguished members of the subcommittee. It is a privilege to 
appear before you today. I would like to join you and the rest 
of my colleagues in congratulating the chairwoman in her first 
appearance here as permanent chairwoman. And, of course, it is 
a particular honor for me, because this is my first opportunity 
to testify before the subcommittee at all, and I will watch out 
for the Rayburn subway.
    Serving on a divided Commission has been an education for 
me in the fundamentally non-partisan nature of the work of an 
expert agency. Working on fair allocation of regulatory fees or 
construction of spectrum auction rules is simply outside of 
partisan consideration. And while at the FCC I have tried to 
base my own approach on the professionalism of our great agency 
staff, today I am going to focus on three forward-looking 
issues: efficient use of spectrum, device security, and the 
space economy. The opportunities they present must be captured, 
and their challenges must be met. And the FCC has a unique 
mission and mandate for all three.
    First, access to and efficient use of spectrum. The FCC and 
NTIA must balance the interests of commercial spectrum users 
and Federal spectrum incumbents. Generally, licensed commercial 
users prefer and get the most value from full power, exclusive 
use licenses. Generally, when coordinating with the commercial 
sector, Federal incumbents prefer and feel best able to fulfill 
their obligations with spectrum sharing, and look toward 
dynamic spectrum allocation.
    Both types of users, however, benefit from clearer rules 
and certainty for their operations, and the FCC can improve 
things for all spectrum users by creating a clearer protection 
rights regime. The FCC should examine how and when receivers 
are protected from interference, while specifically defining 
what interference constitutes, so that safe harbors can be 
created.
    An interference limit policy would provide certainty to 
radio systems operators and receiver manufacturers and, 
therefore, benefit the end users, which today means every 
American.
    Increased signal strength from transmitters can provide 
improved reception, but increasing power levels requires 
receivers in adjacent bands to be able to reject unwanted 
signals outside their frequencies. We can look for efficiencies 
at the Commission in a band by band fashion, where spectrum is 
densest, or where protection of high-value services is of 
greatest importance. My office has been examining this issue 
for over a year, and we want to sincerely thank Chairwoman 
Rosenworcel for the forthcoming introduction of a notice of 
inquiry.
    We must boldly re-examine the status quo in interference 
protection. Today we have dense co-location of wireless edge 
devices, and it is getting denser fast. The 5G revolution isn't 
just about an improved consumer experience on the cell phone. 
To get technological advances that we want in public safety, 
medicine, and industry, we need to put those services on 5G. We 
are going to switch on billions of new wireless devices over 
the next decade. Those devices are going to be operating in 
dense spectrum neighborhoods. So the rules of the road on 
interference protection have to be crystal clear.
    But we also have to be clear about the security challenges 
of using wireless devices at greater scale, which leads me to 
my second issue: device security. The FCC is not a 
cybersecurity agency, but our mission includes protecting the 
availability of wireless spectrum, a scarce and fragile 
resource, for the use of the government and the public. 
Traditionally, we have fulfilled this role by requiring that 
wireless transmitters pass a battery of FCC tests, and operate 
within narrowly confined parameters.
    Creating scientific standards for what constitutes harmful 
interference will further protect users of spectrum from 
harmful interference. But even if every transmitter and 
receiver in America is designed to meet stringent performance 
standards, another problem still remains: these devices are 
increasingly not static circuits, which could be expected to 
behave consistently for the life of the device.
    As more and more static devices are retired, they are being 
replaced or upgraded with software-controlled devices, often 
running multiple operating systems from different providers. 
These systems are inherently more vulnerable than a wired 
system, or a single-purpose system to a cyber attack. And those 
attacks can turn a device that performed perfectly well on our 
workbench into a signal jammer.
    I worry especially about the ability of any attacker to 
hijack multiple wireless devices at once, thereby crafting a 
remote denial of service attack by a mass signal jamming. 
Addressing wireless security for the new wireless era will 
protect Americans against domestic and foreign threats as we 
use more and more wireless services.
    Last, I would like to touch briefly on the space economy. 
The FCC can help with the robust growth of the launch and 
satellite service sectors by requiring thoroughgoing orbital 
debris mitigation standards. As you all know, the FCC has an 
open procedure--proceeding here. But I was pleased to see the 
bipartisan legislation shared by Chairman Pallone and Ranking 
Member Rodgers that clarifies the FCC's authority to craft and 
implement such rules.
    Because the FCC licenses and grants U.S. market access to 
satellite operators, thus representing something like 50 
percent of the present economic opportunity for the worldwide 
space economy, we have a unique opportunity to lead the world 
here at a time when other nations have not been carrying the 
ball. We should capitalize on this to lead a new international 
consensus, in my view, for safe commercial satellite operation 
in space.
    Chairman Doyle, Ranking Member Latta, Chairman Pallone, 
Ranking Member Rodgers and members of the subcommittee, I want 
to thank you again for holding this hearing, and for the 
opportunity to testify, and I look forward very much to 
answering your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Simington follows:]
    
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    Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. The gentleman yields back.
    We have now concluded openings. We are going to move to 
member questions. Each member will have 5 minutes to ask 
questions of our witnesses. I would ask all my colleagues 
that--let's do our best to adhere to that 5-minute rule. And I 
will start by recognizing myself for 5 minutes.
    Commissioner Rosenworcel, especially in this economy, 
people are struggling to make ends meet. And I think it is 
important that we have a strong advocate for consumers in the 
FCC, which is why I am so glad that you are the Chair. As we 
have heard from today's testimony, broadband connections are 
essential, and it is also essential broadband consumers are 
able to understand and receive the benefits that they are 
paying for.
    Chairwoman, I introduced an important bill that I sponsored 
last Congress, the Television Viewer Protection Act, which, 
among other things, requires more transparency around 
consumers' TV, phone, and internet bills. Can you tell me how 
the implementation is going, from your perspective? Are the 
companies complying with the provisions related to equipment 
surcharges? Is the FCC still getting complaints about these 
issues?
    Give us an update on where you see this.
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Thank you for your--the question, and your 
work on the Television Viewer Protection Act.
    When we went back and we looked on the record on this 
subject, what we found is the agency had done a lot of work to 
make sure that small providers of video services could develop 
buying collectives to negotiate for the carriage of channels. 
But we hadn't done a lot of work when it came to the consumer-
focused provisions you are describing about transparency, and 
also making sure that, if you order a service, the company 
shouldn't make you get some equipment you don't intend to use.
    We have certainly seen press reports suggesting that is 
still going on. So in December of this year, we sought comment 
on these issues, because we want to develop an up-to-date 
record. If that is happening, we want to fix it, and we want to 
use the Television Viewer Protection Act to do so.
    Mr. Doyle. Great, thank you.
    Commissioner Starks, we have signed around 11 million 
households for the--up for the Affordable Connectivity Program. 
And I want to say I am very encouraged by the pilot program you 
are standing up to help families in low-income housing receive 
the benefits of the ACP. Can you tell us a little bit more 
about your expectations for the program and its ability to 
reduce the digital divide for these families?
    Mr. Starks. Well, thank you so much for the question, Mr. 
Chairman.
    I have long said it is clear that we need to meet this--the 
disconnected where they are. And there are a lot of great 
things happening around the FCC on ACP, but I am glad to join 
with you in highlighting the focus on beneficiaries of Federal 
housing programs, including residents, as I mentioned, that are 
in public housing on section 8.
    You know, Congress made public housing beneficiaries 
eligible, but we have seen a very small share of them enrolled. 
And so there is a particular nexus between housing and 
connectivity. I have seen it myself. I will never forget when I 
met with a mother of three who lived in the George Washington 
Carver Homes in Selma, Alabama. She told me how she was able to 
complete an online degree program, keep her kids safe and off 
the streets while they finish their homework. And so we need to 
bring that transformative experience to millions of families. 
And I am hopeful that we can focus some efforts here on the 
five million families that are in public housing.
    Mr. Doyle. Great, thank you very much. And I agree, we have 
got to do more to get the word out. I hear that in Pittsburgh, 
too, that a lot of people just simply don't know about the 
program. So we have got to give some thought to how we can get 
more information out.
    You know, I was really glad to see the Spectrum 
Coordination Initiative with NTIA Administrator Davidson in 
your announcement yesterday regarding updating the 2003 
memorandum of understanding. I think we have to do everything 
we can to bring back normalcy to our spectrum management 
processes, and avoid fights like we have been seeing.
    So, Chairwoman, what are your expectations for the 
initiative, and what other steps do you think need to be taken? 
And what, if anything, do you need from Congress?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Thank you for raising this issue. We have 
got to do better when it comes to spectrum coordination. We 
truly need a whole-of-government approach. So very shortly 
after Alan Davidson was appointed to his role at the NTIA, I 
reached out and we set up this initiative to make clear that we 
have goals, and those goals include working closely together.
    With respect to Congress, I want to make sure that you pay 
attention to our work and if you see areas for improvement, you 
let us know what they are. But I would also like you to 
reinforce the NTIA Act. That is the law you passed to set up 
NTIA, to make them the overseer and advisor of Federal spectrum 
interests. I want NTIA to continue to be able to speak for 
Federal spectrum interests, and not just the agencies 
themselves. So elevating NTIA and its authority in the 
discussion, just as Congress intended, is really important 
going forward.
    Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. And to set a good example 
for my colleagues, I am yielding back ten seconds.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Latta.
    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks again to 
our witnesses for being with us today.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, according to the publicly available 
data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, inflation-adjusted 
broadband prices have dropped approximately 15 percent since 
2010. In fact, according to the FCC's own data from the Urban 
Rates Survey, the inflation-adjusted change in the most popular 
broadband tiers has decreased 34 percent since 2015. Our 
Americans are getting more broadband for their buck.
    Chairwoman, do you agree with the FCC's data that consumers 
are getting better broadband service offerings for comparably 
lower and affordable prices?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Well, what I would like to do is take 
advantage of the new legislation that you have offered us in 
the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, which expressly 
tasks us with doing a study on what prices are for the plans 
that are being ordered by anyone who is on the Affordable 
Connectivity Program. And I think that that is going to provide 
an opportunity to provide updated data. I truly hope that it 
reflects exactly the kind of data you just shared with me.
    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you. I would like to acknowledge and 
also thank the industry for their efforts to provide broadband 
service at affordable prices, while continuing to upgrade and 
expand their service offerings prior to the Federal subsidies 
being enacted.
    I was disappointed to see a letter sent by my Democratic 
colleagues on this committee to NTIA Assistant Secretary 
Davidson urging him to expand the scope of the BEAD program, 
impose burdensome requirements like open access, rather than 
focusing on the task at hand, and incentivize private 
investment to make sure all Americans are connected.
    The FCC's broadband maps will be crucial for agencies 
distributing broadband funds, especially with respect to the 
$42.5 billion that the NTIA will be distributing to the states 
through its BEAD program. The FCC is also actively awarding 
funds for the Rural Digital Opportunity Fund.
    Chairwoman, in March 2020 you testified before the Senate 
that the FCC could radically improve its broadband maps within 
three to 6 months. Congress provided $98 million to the FCC to 
implement its mapping activities in December 2020. And since 
you have been leading the FCC, it has been about 2 years since 
you have made the statement to the Senate, and yet we still, 
unfortunately, don't have maps.
    The FCC recently announced the deadline for providers to 
submit mapping data to the FCC is September 1st. How long after 
that date do you contemplate that we are going to have complete 
maps? And, you know, do you commit to getting these maps done 
before the end of the year?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Well, the answer to your final question is 
absolutely yes. We will have maps in the fall.
    I want to unpack a few of the other things that you 
mentioned there. You mentioned comments that I made in March 
of, oh, pre-pandemic days. That was a reference to the maps 
that we used to inform our Rural Digital Opportunity Fund. As 
you may know, we have had a lot of problems with the 
preliminary awards in that program because the last 
Administration awarded rural broadband funding to the Pentagon 
parking lots, the parking lot at LA International Airport, and 
a whole bunch of traffic medians.
    The bottom line is that we have got to do better than that. 
And so we have taken advantage of the law that this committee 
worked on, the Broadband Data Act, which requires us to build 
better maps. And I think you and I can agree the best time to 
do that would have been 5 years ago. But the second best time 
is right now, and my goal is to build the kind of maps that are 
not just good for the moment we are in, but provide a framework 
and a structure that people can use 5 to 10 years from now, 
when they sit in this same seat.
    So we are following that law to a tee. We are dotting every 
I. We are making sure that we do everything that you requested. 
We have brought in a broadband and data architect. We have 
acquired systems for--to make sure we have the capacity to 
manipulate this data. We have beta-tested those systems with 
wireless broadband maps and new propagation models. And we also 
acquired--we set up a contract for a broadband location fabric, 
which is required under the law.
    As Chairman Doyle mentioned, we got slowed up in that 
process, because Federal contracting rules required us to put 
our pencils down for 100 days. But we were victorious earlier 
this month, and now it is all systems go. The broadband data 
location fabric is being built. And in June of this year 
carriers will start filing their data with us, and we will 
convert that data into maps in the fall.
    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you very much.
    Commissioner Carr, just real briefly, you know, as we look, 
are there any other things that we could do to help in making 
sure that we don't have an over--federally subsidized 
overbuilding by our agencies?
    I don't feel like we have had in the past--we don't want 
that competition out there.
    And I am sorry, I have got about 12 seconds.
    Mr. Carr. I am concerned about it, because Treasury 
recently laid out rules for hundreds of billion dollars of ARPA 
funds that green light the use of them for overbuilding. We 
still have too many communities in this country with zero 
megabits per second, so we need to prioritize there. Some of 
that can be corrected at the State level, when they receive the 
funds, but I would also encourage Congress potentially to look 
at passing legislation similar to the Infrastructure Act, which 
included a prioritization scheme that is not present in the 
ARPA funds.
    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you very much.
    Sorry about going over, Mr. Chairman. I yield back the 
balance of my time.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes 
the chairman of the full committee, Mr. Pallone, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Chairman Doyle. I wanted to ask the 
Chairwoman Rosenworcel.
    I know you have been meeting with students and teachers 
across the country as the FCC has implemented the Emergency 
Connectivity Fund from the American Rescue Plan. But could you 
just give us a little more description of how this program has 
made a meaningful difference for students who previously lacked 
home internet?
    I know you have talked about it, but I would like to hear a 
little more.
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Thank you. You know, in pre-pandemic days, 
we called it the homework gap, because there were these kids 
who had internet access at school, but they went home and they 
couldn't do the schoolwork they had been assigned because they 
had no broadband. And during the pandemic, that gap really 
became a huge crisis, because we had students in every State 
across the country locked out of the virtual classroom.
    And so, with the help of Congress, we have committed to 
fixing that. As a result of the Emergency Connectivity Fund, we 
have made a meaningful dent in the homework gap. We have helped 
more than 12 million students get devices and connections at 
home. And we have been able to do that by supporting libraries 
and schools in every State across the country.
    I think, when we look back, we will look at that law and 
this moment as the one where we decided that, just like every 
student should be able to have paper and a pencil to do their 
schoolwork, they also need internet access.
    Mr. Pallone. Thank you. Let me ask Commissioner Stark.
    We know that the cost of monthly internet services is too 
much for a lot of people to afford. And that is why, again, on 
a bipartisan basis, we created this emergency broadband 
benefit, which was turned into a long-term Affordable 
Connectivity Program in the bipartisan infrastructure.
    So, Commissioner Stark, can you describe why it is so 
important that economically vulnerable households can access 
reliable internet service, and how this ACP helps with that, if 
you would?
    Mr. Starks. Yes. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman.
    You know, all the advanced infrastructure in the world 
won't help if ordinary Americans cannot afford to buy broadband 
service it supports. For tens of millions of Americans, we 
know--the data shows--that the price is just too high. Almost 
47 million Americans, 18 million households remain offline just 
because they can't afford their internet connections. And 
millions more have had to make a difficult sacrifice in order 
to keep their broadband on.
    And, you know, I have said no family should have to choose 
between keeping the lights on and a broadband connection, but 
we know that they do. The fact of the matter is that you have 
so many folks, especially through the pandemic, who need their 
kids educated, who have lost their jobs, are looking to get 
job--additional job training. And making sure that they have 
something that can power their household is absolutely 
essential. And the once-in-a-generation investment that you all 
have made is critical.
    Mr. Pallone. Thank you. Let me just--I want to commend--I 
guess all I am doing today is commending the FCC, which is kind 
of unusual for--I don't always do that with all the agencies 
that come in here.
    But I wanted to commend you on the swift action it took to 
address the instances of fraud by providers in the program that 
was uncovered by the inspector general, and exactly how that 
system is supposed to work. But I will go back to Chairwoman 
Rosenworcel.
    Can you say a few words about why the inspector general 
alerting system and corresponding FCC action is important to 
maintain program integrity in a program like the ACP?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Sure. Congress gave us 60 days to set up 
the Nation's largest-ever broadband affordability program, and 
also asked the inspector general to take a close look. So this 
is working exactly as intended.
    The inspector general saw that we had set up a streamlined 
process for community-eligible participation schools, which are 
schools with very high percentages of students on the free and 
reduced lunch program. And they suggested to us that the 
process we had set up created a loophole, and that we were 
seeing spikes in demand in those locations that looked out of 
the ordinary.
    And so, upon learning on that, we immediately shut that 
portal down, required more documentation, referred any bad 
actors to our enforcement unit, and we also reached out to 
every single subscriber who had signed up for the program 
through that portal to re-certify and re-verify them. And in 
that process we have identified some companies and some agents 
who have been problematic, and we will hold them to account.
    Mr. Pallone. Thank you so much.
    Thank you, Chairman.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now 
recognizes Mrs. Rodgers, the full committee ranking member, for 
5 minutes to ask questions.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, I thank you for your support of the 
draft legislation we are working on to modernize the satellite 
communications licensing process.
    In 2020, approximately two-thirds of the investment in 
space startups took place in the United States, and we want to 
encourage that innovation. What challenges is the FCC facing 
with the current satellite licensing process, and how can 
Congress help?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. This is a really exciting time for space 
technology. We had $10 billion of investment in the United 
States in the space sector last year. We launched more than 
1,700 satellites, which is more than we ever have in human 
history.
    Now, the challenge we face with all this activity is to 
make sure our regulatory structures keep up. And I think, on 
that score, we do have work to do, because they were built for 
an era when satellites were sent up only occasionally. We 
didn't have large systems with constellations, with thousands 
of satellites. We just had a handful.
    So what we are going to have to do is come up with more 
people who can work in our agency on satellite policy, faster 
turnaround times with shorter deadlines, and more thoughtful 
approaches to some hard issues like orbital debris. And that is 
certainly something that I hope that we can work together with 
this committee on, and do some work on a bipartisan basis at 
the agency.
    Mrs. Rodgers. I look forward to it, too, also, thank you.
    To all the Commissioners, starting with the Chair: at her 
second confirmation hearing, FCC Commissioner nominee Gigi Sohn 
responded to a question from Senator Moran stating, ``At the 
last hearing I expressly disavowed any support for the FCC 
implementing rate regulation,'' and then went on to say they, 
the FCC, tried to do it in cable in the 1990's, it didn't work 
out well.
    I would like to ask, do you support rate regulation?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. I support consumer protection, but don't 
believe that that is the place that we should go in order to 
manage the broadband industry on a going-forward basis.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you.
    Mr. Carr?
    Mr. Carr. No, I don't. I think here it is important, too, 
to be clear that there is two forms of rate regulation. There 
is rate regulation we call ex-post, meaning tariffing on the 
front end, and then there is application of just and reasonable 
standards on the back end. And I think, when we talk rate 
regulation, we should be clear. I am against both forms of rate 
regulation as to broadband internet access service.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you.
    Mr. Simington?
    Mr. Simington. I am--I would like to echo my colleagues' 
sentiments. I am opposed to all forms of rate regulation.
    And in particular, I would like to ask the question what 
exactly it would even mean to tariff a broadband connection. I 
don't think there is any analogy from telephone service.
    Mrs. Rodgers. OK, Mr. Starks?
    Mr. Starks. Yes, yes. For my part, going forward, I have 
not envisioned rate regulation as part of our broadband 
regulatory scheme.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you.
    Commissioner Carr, you have been a vocal proponent of using 
the FCC to advance the deployment of next gen technologies. One 
of my biggest concerns with the FCC using title II of the 
Communications Act to regulate is that it unnecessarily 
restricts innovation.
    In the past, Republicans on this committee have put forth a 
menu of legislative options that protect consumers while 
enabling innovation in network performance such as 
virtualization, network slicing, or faster speeds. What would 
the impact of title II regulations have on these emerging 
technologies, and do they run the risk of ceding leadership to 
China if we restrict innovation by over-regulating the 
broadband market?
    Mr. Carr. Yes, they do. I think it is important to 
distinguish, on the one hand, consumer protection, net 
neutrality rules, where there is a lot of common ground, and 
title II as a legal framework.
    We need to look no further, as you indicated in your 
opening, to Europe. When COVID-19 hit, it was a global stress 
test of our internet ecosystem. Traffic surged around the 
world. In Europe, regulators there had to ask streamers like 
Netflix to degrade the quality of the service because they 
thought that the networks, the continent's networks, would 
break.
    We didn't see that here in the U.S., because we had the 
right regulatory framework in place that incentivized 
investments before, but also, to your point, actively. There 
was node splitting going on. There was adding of capacity, 
there was managing of the network to ensure that it worked.
    And to your point, we need innovation in the network going 
forward, so we don't want to put a straitjacket of title II in 
that situation.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, I would like to enter a letter you sent to 
the FCC Chairman Genachowski, where you expressed concern with 
the FCC using title II of the Communications Act to reclassify 
broadband as a telecommunications service, saying that any 
action that needs to be taken in this space ``is a job for 
Congress.'' I would agree, and hope that we can work together 
on that, going forward.
    Mr. Doyle. Without objection, so ordered.
    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]
    Mrs. Rodgers. The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act 
extended FCC auction authority for seven years for purposes of 
auctioning spectrum in the lower 3 gigahertz band. 
Notwithstanding the 2.5 and 3.45 auctions, what would the 
impact to the FCC's ongoing operations be if this is not--it 
expires?
    And I think my time has actually expired, so hopefully 
someone else will ask this question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I 
will yield back.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Doyle. I thank the ranking member. The Chair now 
recognizes Mr. McNerney for 5 minutes.
    Mr. McNerney. I thank the Chair, and I thank the Commission 
for your work, and congratulate the chairwoman.
    These past couple of years have highlighted why it is so 
important to make sure that everyone who wants reliable 
broadband access at home is able to get it.
    However, for too many people in my district, the cost of 
monthly service is really just too high. I am proud that 
Congress has made our historic investment to help low-income 
Americans afford broadband through the Affordable Connectivity 
Fund, which is helping over 1.2 million Californians.
    It is also very important for students to have reliable 
broadband access in their homes. The Emergency Connectivity 
Fund has brought over $10 million to schools and libraries in 
my own district, and I commend the Commission for your efforts 
on this program.
    I also want to voice my support for a meaningful FCC 
authority over broadband internet service providers. We need a 
Federal agency to ensure that consumers are protected and 
communities aren't left behind.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, in your testimony you discuss the 
importance of Wi-Fi in closing the homework gap. As co-chair of 
the Wi-Fi Caucus, along with Ranking Member Latta, I have long 
advocated for spectrum to help such concerns. But spectrum is a 
finite resource, and there is hardly any, if any, greenfield 
spectrum bands left. Given that most spectrum bands have 
existing users and operations, how can the Commission and 
Congress make more spectrum available, including low band 
spectrum for commercial use?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Well, thank you for the question. The 
future of our wireless economy depends on a lot of people in 
this room getting together and identifying spectrum bands that 
we can commit to new commercial uses, both licensed and 
unlicensed. That is going to create--that is going to take 
creating incentives for Federal actors that have existing 
allocations and need to be pushed to use less of their airwaves 
than they do at present. And it is also going to take some 
creative activity, thinking about hierarchies of spectrum 
rights, as the agency did in the CBRS and 3.5 gigahertz band, 
as well as new technologies that allow for real-time and 
dynamic access.
    These are really exciting things, but it is going to 
require a lot of policy, regulatory, and legislative work to 
make them happen.
    Mr. McNerney. So how do you know so much stuff?
    But Chairwoman Rosenworcel, the FCC's general auction 
authority expires at the end of September. And I am going to 
ask the question that the ranking member was asking. At our 
recent hearing, all witnesses expressed how important it is for 
Congress to extend its authority. I agree. What would be the 
impact if Congress fails to extend FCC's general auction 
authority in advance of the expiration date?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Well, over the course of our history, the 
FCC has raised more than $233 billion from its spectrum 
auctions. We have led the world when it comes to reallocating 
airwaves and doing creative things with them. I want that to 
continue.
    I would recommend to this committee, however, that when you 
re-authorize our spectrum authority, that you consider this: 
you might take that spectrum authority and take the dollars 
that are raised from the first set of auctions from those 
public airwaves, and commit them to public safety so we could 
have a nationwide program to upgrade 911 in every State in the 
country. First responders support that. And I think you have an 
opportunity to make a meaningful difference when it comes to 
emergency calls.
    Mr. McNerney. I thought you were going to say that.
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Yes.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. McNerney. Last month the Commission published the 
notice of inquiry, as identified by Commissioner Simington, 
seeking comments on securing the internet's global routing 
system, known as the Border Gateway Protocol Against 
Vulnerabilities.
    More recently, the Commission took further action to secure 
American networks from bad actors by including three additional 
equipment and service providers to the list of untrusted 
communication equipment services under the Secure Trusted 
Communications Network Act. This has been discussed already a 
few times this morning. This is an important development for 
network security.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, do you anticipate further action 
from the Commission in either of these areas? And is there a 
bigger role for Congress to play here?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. The answer is yes. I think that our 
security threats are constantly evolving, so we will have to 
stay on top of them. And to the extent that existing 
legislation, which requires our coordination with national 
security authorities, causes any problem, this will be the 
committee we come to first to talk to about that.
    Mr. McNerney. Thank you. In my remaining time I want to 
discuss the Lifeline that has been so critical for my 
constituents.
    Commissioner Starks, can you talk about the importance of 
the Lifeline Program, even with the Affordable Connectivity 
Program, especially for vulnerable populations?
    You only have about ten seconds before Chairman Doyle hits 
the gavel.
    Mr. Starks. Yes. Well, you and I see eye to eye. There are, 
you know, over six-and-a-half million Americans on Lifeline 
right now. It is a critical program to make sure that folks 
stay in touch with family, with jobs, with health.
    And the other thing that I would add is that Lifeline can 
be in addition to an ACP benefit. So we can have somebody who 
gets a Lifeline phone in addition to a, for example, a home ACP 
connection.
    Mr. McNerney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes 
Mr. Guthrie for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks for that, and 
thanks for everybody being here today, and Chair Rosenworcel, 
for your first as chair of the committee--of the Commission.
    Rip and replace--I want to ask you this question, Chair 
Rosenworcel, on rip and replace. There is 181 applications for 
5.6 billion. Congress estimated the need at 1.9 billion, and 
appropriated that much. So a 3.7 billion shortfall. Is there a 
review of--when will you complete your review, and know if that 
is a real shortfall?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Yes, thank you for this question. It is 
important that we have the funds necessary to take this 
insecure equipment out of our networks and replace it with 
secure equipment.
    On June 15th, under the law, we will have an assessment of 
those 181 applications that have been filed with us. So I can't 
offer you preliminary information before then, but I can tell 
you this. I have been studying why we have this shortfall. 
Congress appropriated $1.9 billion. We have demand of $5.6 
billion. And here is what I have learned. There are three 
reasons.
    The first reason is that the $1.9 billion program that 
Congress set up was based on a voluntary data collection done 
by my predecessor. And many of the companies that filed in that 
voluntary data collection also sought funding. We got a lot of 
other companies that sought funding who never filed with us 
before.
    Second, Congress expanded the universe of eligible 
companies. The FCC was assuming only carriers with less than 
two million subscribers. Congress expanded it to carriers with 
10 million or less, and added educational institutions.
    And finally, when we say we have a fund, and we suggest 
that they should apply in order for us to support whatever 
technologies or equipment they want, it is not uncommon for--to 
have applicants ask for funding for things that the law does 
not allow.
    So those three reasons contributed to the $5.6 billion you 
are referencing. And by June 15th, we will be able to speak 
with authority on how much the demand truly is.
    Mr. Guthrie. Good. Does the law allow recovery for, like, 
legal fees, permitting processes? Is that part of the services 
in the law?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. I believe there is some of that, but it is 
more limited, and I would like to go back and actually get back 
to you on that so I am more precise.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thanks. My understanding is some--and maybe 
Commissioner Carr will also kind of move this around a little 
bit--my understanding is that some of the permitting process 
costs could have been part of the 5.6 billion. And thanks for 
your answer, because that was helpful, Chair.
    But also--so I have introduced the TRUSTED Broadband Act, 
which would exempt carriers from the burdensome permitting 
requirements of NEPA and NHPA solely for removing dangerous 
equipment and replacing it. How would that be helpful? Would 
that be helpful in this cause, in moving forward, Commissioner 
Carr?
    Mr. Carr. Very much so. Thank you, Congressman, for that 
legislation.
    I agree with the Chair that the first step has to be to 
define how much fat is in that request. And then, once we do 
that, we obviously need to make good on our commitment to 
providers.
    And to your point, if we can streamline the process of 
regulations and other red tape that is unnecessarily driving up 
the cost, we should do that. And so I commend you for that 
legislation.
    In fact, more broadly, when you look at all the money we 
are spending on infrastructure right now, there is sort of an 
absence of rationalizing NEPA and NHPA regulations. And if you 
are doing that, you have basically stepped on the gas and the 
brakes at the same time, if you are not streamlining the 
infrastructure rules, and just putting money into the process.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thanks. That--so, Chair Rosenworcel, back to 
you.
    I have--one of the biggest issues that I hear, actually, in 
my district--maybe not the biggest in the Nation, but I hear--
is the robocalls. And I know we passed the robocall bill, and 
one of my frequent persons who has brought this up to me says, 
``Well, you said you passed a law, and I am still getting 
robocalls.'' He just got elected to the State senate. So he is 
going to have to answer some of these when he gets--when he 
deals with some of this, as well. But, you know, it is a top 
concern.
    And so one of the requirements of the TRACED Act was for 
the FCC and Department of Justice to establish a working group 
to identify barriers to the enforcement of robocall violations. 
However, the most recent FCC--annual FCC TRACED Act report 
reported that the FCC lacks knowledge about the Justice 
Department's collections beyond two major referrals by FCC.
    So the question would be, how do you view the success of 
the FCC and DoJ enforcing criminal violations on robocalls, and 
kind of what would we expect in the future?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Sure. Look, robocalls are annoying, and it 
is a non-stop effort to try to prevent them, stop them, and 
hold those who make them to account.
    If I could point something out, I feel like this committee 
did a lot of really great work on the TRACED Act, but it is 
time for the next version of that law. And if I had some 
requests, I would say there are two of them.
    The first is that the Supreme Court recently reached a 
decision on the definition of autodialer. And while it wasn't a 
robocalling case, it had the effect of reducing the FCC's 
authority over autodialers, generally, which reduces our 
authority to go after robocallers.
    The second thing--and this goes straight to what you 
mentioned about the Department of Justice, and I noticed that 
this was true with my predecessor, and it is true with me, as 
well--we continue to enforce against bad actors, and you keep 
on telling us to ratchet up the fines, which we do. In fact, 
under my leadership we issued a $225 million fine against a 
robocaller, the largest in our history. But then we take those 
fines, and we hand them over to our colleagues at the 
Department of Justice. And I think the best I can say is that 
we hope and pray that they take them to court.
    I think that, instead of just continuing this process, 
which pre-dates my arrival, I think that this committee should 
consider giving us the authority to take those bad actors to 
court. I would like to hold them to account, and I bet that 
every one of my colleagues would agree with the expansion of 
our authority like that, and I think it would have meaningful 
impact, were we able to do more of that, on the number of 
robocalls consumers actually receive.
    Mr. Guthrie. Well, thank you for that, and I am----
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair now 
recognizes Ms. Clarke for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Clarke. And thank you so very much, Chairman Doyle and 
Ranking Member Latta, for holding this important oversight 
hearing, and to our esteemed panel of witnesses for 
participating.
    Technology has revolutionized the way consumers view 
television programing by enabling access to linear and on-
demand programing through multiple distribution platforms. This 
transformation can be beneficial to small, independent 
programmers attempting to break into the marketplace.
    However, independent programmers contend that multi-channel 
video programing distributors, or MVPDs, create barriers to 
entry by imposing certain unconditional and unreasonable 
contractual provisions that restrict competition and 
innovation, which effectively reduces consumers' access to 
diverse content. In 2016 the FCC proposed rulemaking that would 
prohibit certain types of contract provisions, but that 
proceeding was stalled under the previous Administration.
    So my first question is for our chairwoman, and let me just 
add my voice to all of those who have congratulated you on 
assuming the Chair of the FCC.
    Good morning, Chairwoman. Can you tell us, does the FCC 
plan to continue with proceedings to remove marketplace 
obstacles that could keep diverse and small independent 
programmers from reaching consumers?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Yes. Well, thank you for that. We need to 
find ways to get independent voices on the screen. And a lot of 
independent creators have a difficult time getting carried on 
our major video systems right now. And I know the FCC had a 
proceeding on this in 2014.
    And I think the thing we are going to have to do is start a 
new proceeding so it is up to date and actually reflects the 
way that people watch right now, because that has certainly 
changed in the last few years, as we seek to find content on 
any screen handy.
    But we also need to find pathways for independent creators 
to be able to reach us.
    Ms. Clarke. Well, thank you, Chairwoman. I also thank the 
entire Commission for its work establishing the Emergency 
Connectivity Fund and the Affordable Connectivity Program, 
critical programs that keep Americans connected. Your efforts 
in this space have not gone unnoticed. Nearly 11 million 
households, including over 730,000 New Yorkers, have enrolled 
in the ACP, and in addition to help--getting help with their 
monthly internet bills, also now have access to strengthened 
consumer protections under the new program rules.
    Additionally, the Comprehensive ACP Consumer Outreach 
Toolkit has helped partners and local communities increase 
awareness of the program to reach all eligible families. So, 
Commissioner Sparks--Starks, can you expand on your testimony, 
and share how the FCC plans to broaden its outreach efforts to 
increase participation in the programs like the ACP and ECF, as 
well as ensure funds continue to be available, especially for 
those who remain unconnected?
    Mr. Starks. Yes, thank you, Congresswoman. This has long 
been a priority of mine.
    In particular, one of my very first trips actually was to 
visit public housing in New York. And I saw the myriad 
challenges at the time, from the provider side to, of course, 
the household side, as well. And so a lack of access to and 
adoption of broadband has reinforced existing inequities.
    We know that nearly 29 percent of Black households, 35 
percent of Latinx households are disconnected. And, you know, 
Congress, very clearly--one of my efforts is on the public 
housing side. And Congress made clear that public housing folks 
are eligible. The Commission said that innovative approaches 
are needed here, including expanding awareness to 
beneficiaries, offering assistance to digital navigators.
    And so I am in contact with housing authorities there in 
New York, and would love and, of course, always eager to 
continue to work with you on public housing and connectivity 
needs there in your district.
    Ms. Clarke. Well, thank you so much, Commissioner. Well, 
you know, it is so apparent that, particularly during this time 
where everyone has had to get online, just the inequities that 
exist. So it is important that we drill down and get this work 
done.
    I have introduced several bills that tackle the issue of 
diversity in media, including H.R. 5836, the Enhancing 
Diversity Data Act, and so that the FCC would once again 
collect EEO workforce diversity data; as well as H.R. 5056, 
legislation to establish tax credits to incentivize carriage of 
diverse and independent programing.
    Chairman Rosenworcel, can you provide any updates on the 
FCC's EEO proceeding?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Yes. We have an obligation under the law, 
under section 334 of the Communications Act, to collect 
information about the diversity of broadcast companies 
employment. And that is an obligation has been largely ignored 
by the agency since 2004. But last year we started a proceeding 
to get it going again. And I have been surveying the record and 
talking about it with Commissioner Starks, and expect to talk 
to my other colleagues about it soon.
    I hope that we can correct the fact that for 15 years we 
have not done anything on this matter, and we have a duty to do 
so under the law.
    Ms. Clarke. Thank you, I yield back----
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    Ms. Clarke [continuing]. Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Doyle. The Chair now recognizes, virtually, Mr. 
Kinzinger.
    You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Kinzinger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And to the 
Chairwoman and Commissioners, thanks for being with us today.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, I was pleased to see that last week 
the FCC announced it would conduct an auction of 2.5 gigahertz 
spectrum, critical mid-band spectrum that can be used to 
provide much-needed broadband capacity, particularly in rural 
areas, beginning on July 29th. The FCC's authority to conduct 
auctions expires about two months after that.
    So the question is, given the need for Congress to act 
quickly to extend auction authority to provide certainty to the 
FCC and to the potential bidders in the 2.5 gigahertz auction, 
do you support a clean, short-term extension of the FCC's 
spectrum authority--spectrum auction authority, so that the FCC 
can complete its ongoing spectrum auction activities?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. I support an extension, but would, under 
all circumstances, prefer a long-term extension. I think that 
is better for the wireless economy and our consistent ability 
to be able to make these airwaves available for commercial 
purposes.
    Mr. Kinzinger. OK. Commissioner Carr, let me ask you. The 
FCC has been working with NTIA and Federal partners for years 
to make the lower 3 gigahertz spectrum available for commercial 
use. What is the status of identifying spectrum within the 3 
gigahertz band for commercial use, and what work remains?
    Mr. Carr. Well, thank you, Congressman. The lower 3 
gigahertz is really our next best slug of mid-band spectrum. I 
think it is going to be a key boost to America's 5G leadership. 
That is why a year ago I put that on my spectrum calendar as 
one of the prime bands we should be looking to move on this 
year and next year.
    The challenge now is, with one of the infrastructure laws 
that was passed, DoD has a provision that stops us from moving 
forward on that until at least 2024. And then, after that, they 
have maintained, effectively, a veto on our ability to do that. 
So one thing we need to do is address that, so we can continue 
to work toward freeing up the lower 3 gigahertz.
    And while we are doing that, I think we need to sort of 
continue to fill in with our spectrum pipeline, given the 
challenges that may exist with lower 3. And that is why I have 
identified a number of additional bands, from 3.5 to 6 
gigahertz to UNII2c that we should be sticking in the pipeline 
as, you know, backups or additions to lower 3.
    Mr. Kinzinger. OK. Let me stick with you on another one.
    As part of the RAY BAUM'S Act, Congress passed my Rural 
Wireless Act, which directed the FCC to consider whether to 
establish a process for carriers to disaggregate or partition 
portions of their license that they may not use. The idea was 
to consider the benefits of providing smaller carriers with an 
opportunity to work with larger carriers to put that spectrum 
to good use.
    The FCC has proposed the Enhanced Competition Incentive 
Program to achieve this, but it has not yet been implemented. 
So how do you envision this program benefiting smaller 
companies?
    And more importantly, how do you see it benefiting rural 
and tribal customers?
    Mr. Carr. Yes, this is a frustrating issue. We license 
spectrums over--spectrum over broad geographic areas, and we 
expect carriers to build out. And sometimes they can meet their 
buildout obligations by not reaching rural or less densely 
populated parts. So any idea that would create incentives for 
that spectrum to do something other than sit fallow, instead of 
connect families, is a great idea. And I think that is part of 
what your legislation goes to, which is how do we disaggregate 
that spectrum and give another provider that is willing to 
invest money and put it to use the chance to do so.
    So I think that is a very good idea that we need to keep 
pushing forward on.
    Mr. Kinzinger. OK. And my last question, back to Chairwoman 
Rosenworcel, the Alternative Connect America Model, or ACAM 
Program, was established in a bipartisan basis in 2016. And 
while there has been some significant program successes, 
technological standards continue to increase. And therefore, we 
have to ask ourselves if the policies are keeping up.
    A petition was filed at the Commission in October 2020 
requesting that the FCC re-evaluate the program standards, and 
if a decision was made to make updates to then initiate a new 
notice of proposed rulemaking.
    What are your thoughts on the success of that program, and 
what do you see as the future of the program?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Thank you for the question. We need to 
update it, we need to modernize it, and we need to develop a 
rulemaking based on the petition you described.
    And if I could go back for 1-second to what you were asking 
Commissioner Carr, I just want to point out that in late 
November we issued a rulemaking on the Enhanced Competition 
Incentive Program, and received our final comments on it this 
month. My hope is that we will be able to move ahead with that 
effort to partition and disaggregate spectrum licenses to serve 
more rural and tribal communities. So that is underway.
    Mr. Kinzinger. OK, great. I thank everybody.
    And, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back my 23 seconds.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes 
Mr. Veasey for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Veasey. Mr. Chairman, thank you. And I am happy that we 
are here talking about this today. I mean, it is something that 
we honestly can't talk about enough, and glad that we have 
Commissioners from the FCC here to talk about this important 
program.
    I think that all of us realize that, with COVID-19 
especially, it made us understand just how much we needed to 
make sure that all parts of America are connected, because 
being connected is just, in reality, just a part of modern 
life. Again, this is something that we really recognized in the 
early stages of the pandemic.
    I was happy to work on the Emergency Broadband Benefit 
Program, which has now been renamed the Affordable Connectivity 
Program under the bipartisan infrastructure law that was 
passed, and I am glad that we were, again, just able to connect 
so many people to our new digital economy that we all really 
function in.
    And I wanted to ask Chairwoman Rosenworcel. Today we have 
over 10 million households enrolled in the ACP, and more than a 
quarter of a million of those live in Texas. Schools and 
libraries in the district that I represent have received over 
half-a-million dollars through the Emergency Connectivity Fund. 
And I have heard from constituents and even people from outside 
of the district that live in other parts of Dallas and Fort 
Worth that this is really making a difference in their lives.
    And the one thing that I am worried about is, as we try to 
bridge the digital divide, and try to bring more of these 
services into people's home, that there was a GAO report last 
year finding that the Lifeline-eligible consumers are often 
discouraged when signing up because it can be a difficult and 
challenging process.
    How can we mitigate these challenges as we work to connect 
the next 10 million Americans in the ACP?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Thank you for the question. And more 
importantly, thank you for the work that you did to develop 
this program in its early days.
    As you can see, there is huge demand. We now have 11 
million households that are relying on it. The challenge for 
the FCC is twofold right now.
    First, we have to make it easy and simple for those who 
need the support to sign up, while at the same time having 
appropriate guardrails for waste, fraud, and abuse. And we are 
going to be constantly iterative, trying to make sure that we 
find the way to do this properly.
    And the second thing that is really important is making 
sure that we have outreach partners at the local level. We can 
preach about this program at the agency or from Washington, but 
what matters most is when people hear about it in their 
communities from people they trust. So developing partnerships 
with State and local actors and institutions is really, really 
important.
    Mr. Veasey. Thank you very much.
    And Commissioner Starks, I know that one of your key 
priorities is increasing participation in the ACP by households 
that benefit from Federal public housing assistance, or FPHA. 
We know that FPHA beneficiaries were eligible for the EBB, but 
unfortunately, only a small fraction of those actually enrolled 
in the program.
    Can you talk a little bit about both the short-term and 
long-term benefits of connecting FPA beneficiaries to 
broadband?
    Mr. Starks. Yes, sir. Thank you for the question, 
Congressman.
    You know, to your point, how are we going to get more folks 
connected, how are we going to push past that 11 million 
households that are already enrolled, I think the pilot--the 
public housing pilot program that I am leading is essential. I 
am working with the chairwoman and my colleagues who have all 
endorsed this as a place for us to continue to look.
    In particular, you know, I would offer up that we are 
fortunate that HUD has a great leader in Secretary Fudge, who 
understands the importance of these issues. I have partnered, 
in particular, with Secretary Fudge back when she was a 
Congresswoman. Our offices are working together even as we 
speak.
    And so we are fortunate that HUD also has an existing 
programmatic effort to build on their Connect Home Program 
there in HUD. It has provided a platform for public-private 
partnerships to have access, and, you know, they are working 
now with over 100 cities.
    So I see a lot of great potential for collaboration. We are 
working hard, and we do need to keep pushing to get more and 
more households connected to this essential program.
    Mr. Veasey. Thank you very much.
    And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back my 20 seconds. Thank you.
    Mr. Doyle. I thank the gentleman, he yields back. The Chair 
recognizes, oh, my suffering Pittsburgh Pirate buddy, Gus 
Bilirakis.
    You have 5 minutes.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Help is on the way, Mr. Chairman, help is on 
the way.
    This question is for the Commissioner. I am not sure 
exactly which one, but anyway, during the Trump Administration 
the FCC began the Rural Digital Opportunity Fund to provide 
support for broadband in areas that were completely unserved, 
and define unserved--lacking access to speeds less than 2.53 
megabits per second.
    I believe this is for Commissioner Carr. Since then, an 
additional $50 billion has been appropriate several agencies 
broadband deployment. So, Commissioner, again, however, not all 
agencies are using the metrics. For example, the USDA Reconnect 
Program provides Federal funds to serve areas lacking 100 up 
and 20 down megabits per second.
    Again, for Commissioner Carr, what are the risks we have 
with having different agencies making funding awards based off 
different criteria?
    Mr. Carr. Well, thank you, Congressman, for the question. 
This is a challenge. This is like going to the scarecrow in The 
Wizard of Oz and asking for directions, and it ends up pointing 
in all sorts of directions. We have got various agencies with 
divergent standards that they are applying, and it is a 
problem.
    One thing we can do is, obviously, complete the process of 
the FCC's broadband maps. We can drive everybody, every funding 
decision through an accurate, complete map that will help to 
make sure we avoid at least subsidized overbuilding.
    We need to make sure we have a prioritization scheme, so 
that unserved areas go first. And where we have made a 
commitment to people to build out pursuant to RDOF, we 
shouldn't be having other funds come in over top and undermine 
the business case for those RDOF-supported builds, again, 
particularly where we have too many parts of the country that 
still have zero megabits per second.
    So there is a lot that we need to do right now to improve 
coordination, I think.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you. We are already hearing examples 
of agencies awarding Federal funds for broadband deployment 
projects in areas that have received RDOF funds, making it 
uneconomical for companies that receive RDOF funds to build out 
and serve that area.
    Commissioner Carr, again, what is the FCC doing, or what 
should it do to ensure that the RDOF auction is not overbuilt 
by other sources of Federal funding?
    Mr. Carr. Well, in my view, we should make it ineligible 
for other providers with other Federal subsidies to come in 
over the top of RDOF winners.
    One thing we could do, though, is we could look at, for 
instance, what I call top-off funds, which is if you are given 
RDOF dollars to bring speeds of X to this community, if you 
want to go get other dollars to bring speeds of X times two to 
that same community, then the RDOF winner could be well 
positioned to do that.
    But again, fundamentally, we can't have subsidized 
providers from other buckets of money coming in over top of 
RDOF recipients.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you. The next question is for 
Chairwoman Rosenworcel.
    The Industry Traceback Group was recognized under the 
TRACED Act for leading private-sector efforts to crack down on 
illegal robocalls. ITG has helped identify gateway providers 
that bring illegal robocalls into the U.S. from abroad and get 
a handle on these fraudsters.
    However, has the ITG been to these efforts--how important 
has it been?
    I mean, this is a big problem, that breakup you mentioned 
earlier. But this is--our constituents ask us questions all the 
time. I know we have passed previous legislation with regard to 
the robocalls, but they don't seem to think it has worked.
    So if you could address that, and then I have a followup 
for Commissioner Carr, please. Thank you.
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Sure. Working with the Industry Traceback 
Group, we have been able to identify that more and more of 
these calls are coming from overseas. We don't have clean data 
on that yet, but it is enough to suggest to us that we have got 
to make sure that gateway providers that take in junk calls 
from overseas register in our robocall mitigation data base. We 
are working on updating our rules to make that happen right 
now, and that is a direct byproduct of us working with the 
TRACED Act, which--and the Traceback Group that was created by 
it.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Yes, and I will tell you. I mean, I get them 
all the time from overseas. So, in any case, it is a big 
problem.
    Commissioner Carr, do you have any recommendations on how 
we can build on this momentum to find new ways to just for 
robocalls?
    Mr. Carr. I thank you. I want to reiterate what the Chair 
said. I mean, one, we have accelerated the deadline with which 
smaller providers need to comply with STIR/SHAKEN. We have 
started a proceeding to look at the gateway providers because, 
as we have talked about, a lot of these calls are coming from 
overseas boiler rooms.
    So there is more that we need to do after completing that 
to get at those calls jurisdictionally. Then I am sure we will 
be back to see what we can do.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Thanks----
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Bilirakis [continuing]. Appreciate it very much. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Doyle. OK. The Chair recognizes Mr. O'Halleran for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. O'Halleran. Thank you, Chairman Doyle and Ranking 
Member Latta, for holding this meeting today.
    First of all, I want to thank the chairwoman, or--the 
chairwoman for the hard work that she and the Commission and 
the leadership put into two funds, the Emergency Connectivity 
Fund--you know, in Arizona the schools and libraries have been 
awarded $150 million, including more than $20 million in 
Arizona's 1st congressional district to close that homework 
gap. But also, it is the knowledge gap, the resources gap, 
research, imagination gap. It is much more than just a homework 
gap.
    And second, the Emergency Broadband Benefit Program, which 
recently transitioned into the Affordable Connectivity Program. 
Arizona has nearly 240,000 households enrolled in the ACP. I 
appreciate the outreach the FCC has done to tribal communities 
on the program. Tribal communities have had some of the highest 
uptake rates for EBB and ACP, and we should be doing all we can 
to reach out to these households, who are among the most left 
behind in broadband access in our entire country, and in the 
adoption rate.
    We have been talking about broadband maps for years. The 
FCC and we have talked about it just recently. The FCC starting 
[sic] proceedings on broadband maps five years ago, and we 
still haven't had one yet. Chairman Rosenworcel, I know you 
have made this a priority, and have worked hard to try to get 
around some of the issues involved, and that the agency 
recently got the green light to move forward after there was a 
protest on the selection of a vendor to help create these maps.
    We are all anxious for the maps to be completed, but we 
need to ensure they are accurate. With that in mind, can you 
give us an idea of the next steps the agency is taking to 
deliver these maps quickly?
    And can you describe how you are working with the NTIA, as 
the maps will be critical to the implementation of the 
broadband funding from the bipartisan infrastructure law, and 
the fairness throughout the process?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Absolutely. As a result of the GAO giving 
us the green light finally, we have a vendor that is building 
our broadband location fabric, which is a geo-coded set of 
every buildable location in the country. Once we get that 
fabric, we are going to allow our carriers to beta-test it, get 
used to it, to play around with it, because we are going to 
need them to start filing data with us starting in June of this 
year.
    By the way, that is 2,500 carriers, nationwide. So we need 
to make sure that they know how to use the system so we get 
good information.
    Once we collect all that data, we are going to build maps 
in the fall, and then we are going to start a challenge process 
to let states, localities, tribes, and consumers take a look at 
our maps and tell us if--what they think we got wrong, and then 
make the carriers respond to that. So there is crowdsourcing 
that will figure into this effort, too.
    And then, finally, I want you to know we are making every 
effort to work with our colleagues across government. As you 
know, we have more broadband programs than ever before, so we 
got more coordination challenges than ever before. We have a 
memorandum of understanding with our colleagues at the Rural 
Utility Service. We have one with the Department of Commerce. 
And I am working right now to see if we can also set one up 
with the Department of Treasury, because I want everyone to 
have all of the data and information that we are collecting, 
because that will--I believe it will be the best in the Federal 
Government.
    Mr. O'Halleran. Chairwoman, I--and thank you, first of all. 
Thank you.
    You know, my frustration--and it was mentioned the other 
day to you--about agencies in general, not your agency, but 
agencies in general, and the--how the public can look at us and 
say, ``Why isn't government working?'' Because it takes so long 
for this stuff to get addressed. And we have to find a way to 
get around that, and I know you are trying.
    I also wanted to commend the work of the Commission on 
robocall scams. And the TRACED Act of 2019 and--stop 
unwarranted and illegal robocalls. But I am--I just want to get 
this off--I am in full agreement with your thought process that 
we need--you need the ability to collect these fines. I know 
the Justice Department is a busy place, but they need to get 
their job done, too, and they can't do it with their workload 
that they have going on, also.
    Chairwoman, what barriers are you seeing with enforcement 
of the Act, and particularly considering the recent Supreme 
Court ruling, and what--will the--how will that hinder you, 
actually? You mentioned that earlier.
    Ms. Rosenworcel. I appreciate that. Scam artists move 
really fast. We are going to have to, as regulators and 
legislators, find ways to keep up with them and their 
robocalling ways. Two things we could use help on from this 
committee.
    First is making sure the definition of autodialer reflects 
technology today. The Supreme Court decision was a decision 
that resulted in them defining autodialer like it existed when 
the Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 was passed. We 
have got to fix that.
    Mr. O'Halleran. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield, and I 
hope we work faster.
    Mr. Doyle. I thank the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes 
Mr. Johnson for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And Chairwoman Rosenworcel, congratulations on your new 
role. I haven't talked to you since you became chairwoman. 
Congratulations.
    You know, we are we are seeing great progress with low 
Earth orbit satellite systems helping to expand connectivity 
across the Nation, as well as significant improvement, 
innovation, and leadership by U.S. companies in this space. 
There is a lot of interest in deploying new systems in addition 
to those that are already deployed. Congress is focused on 
updating the FCC's tools and authorities to streamline the 
process for this innovation and investment to ensure robust 
competition in that marketplace.
    Does the FCC share our goal of supporting a streamlined 
process for encouraging that needed robust competition and 
innovation going forward?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Yes, we have to update our policies. I 
agree.
    Mr. Johnson. OK, great. What should the--for Commissioner 
Simington, what should the law and the regulations regarding 
space safety and spectrum coordination look like in order to 
promote a competitive operating environment for these low Earth 
orbit satellite systems?
    Mr. Simington. This is a complicated question, because our 
satellite spectrum allocation regime looks back to earlier 
days, and is thus a sort of an unlicensed regime where there is 
an incentive to get your proposals out there as early as 
possible, and then to amend them repeatedly, which leads to a 
process that can be very opaque to outsiders, and a little bit 
unpredictable, and leads to extensive, extensive commentary on 
the record.
    So, for example, with the SpaceX third modification last 
year, we had more than 200 ex-parte filings. Probably the Chair 
could give you the exact number. The--just the list of filings 
took up a whole page of the order.
    So, as far as improving this, we need an improved system 
for allocating spectrum to the satellite world. And I think it 
is not just as simple as saying auction it, but we should 
probably think about some sort of transferable rights regime, 
or develop some sort of alternative to ensure that the space 
spectrum is fully used.
    As far as space safety, the United States is in a unique 
position to use our dominant market size, as a gigantic 
consumer of satellite services, to require that space safety 
laws and compliance with American space safety ideas should be 
mandatory for companies seeking to do business here, regardless 
of where they launch and retrieve satellites. And that is a 
unique opportunity for the FCC to step in and take a role 
there.
    One way to make this a contributor to the U.S. economy, 
instead of just a regulatory drag, would be to determine where 
the real costs lie and where the real risks of satellite lie. 
So, for example, orbital debris is much more persistent and 
dangerous at high altitudes with large satellites than with the 
slow--I am sorry, with the low and small satellites that you 
see in constellations operating in LEO. Likewise, the 
possibilities for advanced coordination technologies to be used 
to make LEO satellite constellations extremely safe remains 
unexplored and regulatory incentivized.
    So there are a number of things we could do along those 
lines.
    Mr. Johnson. OK. Well, thank you.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, with the tens of billions of 
dollars now going forward toward broadband deployment, we must 
make sure that regulatory barriers do not stand in the way of 
closing the digital divide once and for all. We have already 
heard concerns from some providers that access to existing 
infrastructure, such as poles, may impact RDOF awardees seeking 
to deploy in under-served and unserved areas.
    What is the FCC doing to ensure that there are no barriers 
to the success of the RDOF program?
    What action has the FCC taken to address these barriers to 
access?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Sure. You know, we have soaring rhetoric 
about connecting all. We are rarely talking about utility 
poles, but they might be the most important part on the ground. 
You need access to them if you want to deploy to unserved and 
under-served areas. And we have learned from some of the 
providers that the cost of securing that access can be as much 
as one-third of their deployment costs. That just sounds too 
high. A lot of that is in the bureaucracy of cooperating and 
getting approvals.
    So this month we started a proceeding to identify how we 
can bring those costs down and have better policies when it 
comes to pole attachment and pole replacement, and how those 
costs will be shared among providers. So we are looking at that 
closely right now.
    Mr. Johnson. OK. I am also concerned with supply chain and 
labor shortages, ma'am, that spans a--to coin a word, the 
spectrum of industries in America, we got issues there.
    From your discussions with the NTIA, do you believe the 
states will be able to successfully roll out broadband 
deployment in the current supply chain situation?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. It is something we have to monitor 
closely.
    Mr. Johnson. OK, all right.
    Mr. Chairman, I have more questions. I will submit those 
for the record.
    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]
    Mr. Johnson. And I will yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. I thank the gentleman. The gentleman yields 
back. The Chair recognizes Ms. Rice for 5 minutes.
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Doyle. You need to unmute, I believe, Ms. Rice.
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Doyle. Ms. Rice, we can't hear you. If you can hear us, 
please unmute.
    What do you think?
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Doyle. We will come back to her. The Chair recognizes 
Ms. Eshoo for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this all-important 
hearing.
    To the Chairwoman, bravo and congratulations. It is really 
wonderful to see you in action.
    And to each of the Commissioners, thank you to all of you, 
because I think you are working very well together, and there 
are so many important policies that you are making headway on. 
So bravo, and thank you.
    I want to start out with an issue that most people don't 
think of that the FCC deals with, and that is national 
security. We know what Mr. Putin is doing, the tragedy of 
Ukraine. I think each one of you knows that, in response to 
eight letters that I sent over to the FCC over, what, some four 
years, the result of that is that the FCC has updated its 
regulations last year so that the American people will know 
when Russia is paying for propaganda broadcasts on airwaves 
owned by the American people.
    I can't underscore how really deeply disappointed I am that 
American broadcasters are now suing the FCC. They are arguing--
get a hold of this--they are arguing that these bare minimum 
transparency requirements are too onerous. Ultimately, they are 
delaying implementation of the rules. Now, what is so onerous 
about the following? All they have to do is say that their 
content is paid for by a foreign government when it is, period. 
So I don't know if any of the broadcasters are listening in 
today. Come on.
    We have a collective responsibility here, as Americans. And 
right now Americans are listening to Radio Sputnik, and they 
may not know that it is propaganda, is paid for by the Kremlin. 
So this is unacceptable, and everyone should be behind these 
really simple, easy rules.
    Thank you for what you have said, Madam Chairwoman, about 
robocalls. We will work with you to draw up legislation on the 
authorities that you need, and also that the FCC should be able 
to collect these fines that are placed on these bad actors.
    Now, we know that Russia is known to couple kinetic war 
with cyber attacks, including exploiting various hardware, 
software, protocol-level vulnerabilities. I am really pleased 
to see the FCC launch an inquiry about strengthening the 
security of BGP. It is a critical internet traffic routing 
protocol, and I think it is really very important, but it is an 
under-appreciated issue.
    So, Madam Chairwoman, can you just briefly tell us about 
the issue, and what the FCC is doing on BGP security?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Well, thank you, I appreciate the 
question.
    Our effort to look at Border Gateway Protocol came out of 
conversations we had with the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure 
Security Agency. We are coordinating more closely than ever, 
and they identified it, and we confirmed that it is an 
essential part of the internet's global routing system, but 
there are significant vulnerabilities when traffic is exchanged 
between networks. So we started an inquiry to try to understand 
that better, ask questions about it, because we do not want to 
create opportunities for theft or espionage at those connection 
points.
    And I do want to thank my colleagues. When I called them 
and discussed these issues with them, and told them that it was 
serious and we needed to move in a fast manner, all four of 
them did.
    Ms. Eshoo. Great. I just want to squeeze something else in.
    To all of my colleagues, both sides of the aisle, we have 
an opportunity to address, once and for all, the NextGen 911. 
There are over 6,000 PSAPs in the country, in every community. 
This is an arm for law enforcement, as well as health 
emergencies in all of our communities.
    So with the auctions, there will be money. And I think that 
we need to all do this together to make sure that, once and for 
all, that our PSAPs are funded appropriately so that the 
emergencies in every single one of our communities be addressed 
by NextGen 911.
    And with that I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair recognizes 
Mr. Long for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Long. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And Chairwoman Rosenworcel, there is a petition the FCC is 
considering that would allow a bureau to reinterpret the word 
``classroom'' to mean households, expanding the E-Rate program 
dramatically.
    The FCC also did not seek comment on the actual rules 
making the Affordable Connectivity Program permanent, but 
rather sought comment on questions about how those rules should 
look.
    As the stewards of America's tax dollars, my colleagues and 
I always--are always concerned that the funds we appropriate 
will be used efficiently. However, far too often we see 
government squandered away money through waste, fraud, and 
abuse. While we can disagree on the structure and size of 
various programs, I know you understand that every dollar 
misspent is another dollar that never goes to the intended 
purpose.
    While I am pleased that you have continued the tradition of 
Chairman Pai that he started to make the items in the open 
meetings agenda available 21 days in advance of a vote, I am 
concerned that a number of significant FCC actions are being 
considered without the opportunity for the public to comment on 
specific rules. Rather, the FCC seeks comment on public notice, 
instead of the actual proposed language of the regulation.
    Even worse, some proposals ask for the FCC bureaus to 
dramatically expand programs by reinterpreting terms, as I 
mentioned earlier, to delegated authority.
    Will you commit to allowing the public to review proposed 
rules? And will you commit to not abusing the delegated 
authority process to expand the existing programs?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Any substantial expansion would require 
that my colleagues all vote on it and we complete it at the 
Commission level.
    Mr. Long. Can you repeat that? I didn't----
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Any substantial expansion of any program 
would require that my colleagues and I agree on it, and vote on 
it at the full Commission level.
    Mr. Long. OK. Thank you. I have been fighting a cough and 
cold for ten days now. I am about over it, but I am having a 
hard time a little bit.
    Commissioner Carr, while all funding programs must be 
administered carefully, the enormous scale and rapid rollout of 
the COVID relief programs created prime opportunities for the 
bad actors to exploit government funding. Unfortunately, we are 
already seeing this happen. The FCC inspector general recently 
detected fraud in the Emergency Broadband Benefit program.
    Commissioner Carr, I would like to thank you for your work 
to ensure that the funds going through the FCC are actually 
reaching their intended recipients: American families who are 
truly in need. Last fall you expressed serious concern that the 
massive levels of broadband dollars being appropriated by 
Congress could result in headline levels of waste, fraud, and 
abuse. Can you explain for us the steps that you would like to 
see taken to ensure substantive oversight of these programs?
    Mr. Carr. Well, thank you, Congressman, great to see you 
again.
    I think everybody here probably remembers 2008, the last 
time we had a massive infusion of broadband stimulus dollars of 
around then an unprecedented 7 billion. Well, now, by my count, 
we have over $800 billion. What we saw after the 7 billion was 
just story after story of waste, fraud, and abuse. And the time 
to act is now to make sure that we don't sit here two years 
from now and say, where did the $800 billion go, because my 
committees are still unconnected?
    So we do a couple of things. One, require everybody to go 
through the FCC's map. That is going to help. Two, make sure we 
prioritize unserved areas first, make sure we close that 
digital divide before we add additional providers. Three, we 
need better tracking and measurements. I wrote letters to all 
the executive branch agencies that have funds. I said, ``Where 
are your broadband dollars going?'' The ones that responded, 
one of them just said, ``We aren't even tracking how much of 
this money is going toward broadband initiatives.''
    So we aren't in a good spot right now in terms of controls 
in place, and the window is quickly closing to fix that.
    Mr. Long. OK. And I would like to thank all three of you 
for coming in today.
    And you are going to miss me next year on this committee 
because, you know, having an auctioneer on here, I talk fast. I 
want to yield back 54 seconds.
    Mr. Doyle. Well, I will tell you what, Billy, that wins the 
prize today.
    OK, now we are going to try Ms. Rice again, and hopefully 
her--she is able to come through.
    Ms Rice. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman----
    Mr. Doyle. So, Ms. Rice, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms Rice. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I am sorry for my 
technical difficulties. Thank you all so much for coming today.
    You know, in just less than a year, just under 11 million 
households have enrolled in the ACP, including nearly three 
quarters of a million households across New York, and thousands 
in my district. Americans are desperate for affordable 
broadband, and the FCC has stepped up to make this program a 
success. All of us on this committee, I know, want to make sure 
it continues to grow and reaches the tens of millions of 
eligible households that have yet to enroll.
    My congratulations to you, Chairwoman Rosenworcel, and I 
would like to ask you--I am aware that the FCC has already had 
400 virtual events to promote ACP awareness and enrollment. 
Have you noticed any enrollment trends you can share with us?
    Are there types of communities or consumers where we have 
been especially successful, or where uptake is lagging?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Thank you. We have reached 11 million 
households, and it has been a lot of work. We have held more 
than 400 different sessions. We have worked with boys and girls 
clubs, with faith institutions, with the NFL players, the Miami 
Dolphins Foundation. We have worked with the Navajo Nation. 
Anyone who comes to us with a good idea, we will develop a 
program to get the word out.
    So the one thing that has become apparent is that people 
need to hear from trusted actors in their local communities. 
And so if anyone on this committee has ideas about how to reach 
people where they are, we are open to them. We are iterative. 
We want to reach people and make sure they hear about it from 
people they trust.
    Ms Rice. So the Commission's proposed rulemaking for ACP 
bookmarked about $100 million for promoting the program and 
encouraging enrollment, and that includes paid media campaigns, 
grants to community, outreach partners.
    Commissioner Starks, you have emphasized the importance of 
outreach to and partnerships with communities of color, 
individuals with disabilities, and the poor, all groups that 
are less likely to have quality broadband connections than the 
general population. How can we make sure that these grants 
actually get to community organizations that are best situated 
to reach those households?
    And why are these grants--to community-based organizations 
in this effort----
    Mr. Starks. It is----
    Ms. Rice [continuing]. To increase, you know, the 
enrollment?
    Mr. Starks. It is a great question, Congresswoman, and 
thank you so much for raising it.
    You know, increasing participation in any government 
program, especially a new one, is truly a complex problem. And 
so, you know, as mentioned by Chairwoman Rosenworcel, you know, 
increasing awareness of ACP is assuredly a first step, as you 
mentioned. In setting up ACP, we affirmed, you know, $100 
million set aside to advance these digital equity goals.
    So here is what I am looking for, you know. I want to make 
sure we follow through with that. And so when we are making 
grants, we do need to identify those organizations, community-
based organizations with a proven track record of working with 
low-income people, communities of color.
    When we are contracting with experts to conduct focus 
groups, for example, develop advertising campaigns, I think we 
should ensure that they have expertise with, again, diverse 
communities, low-income communities, you know.
    And when we buy advertisements, another part that is going 
to be part of our programmatic foray here, we should make sure 
we are spending--that flows to diverse ownership workforces 
consistent with our media diversity goals.
    And so there really are a lot of ways where we can meet the 
moment here with digital equity, as well as making sure we are 
focusing and getting the most number of people so that we can 
increase that 11 million number.
    Ms. Rice. So I would encourage you all to work with State 
and Federal--other Federal agencies and State agencies, as 
well, because, as my colleague, Mr. Veasey, pointed out, many 
of the ACP-eligible individuals or households qualify for the 
program automatically because they already participate in a 
program like WIC, SNAP, Medicaid, et cetera. But they don't 
know they qualify, or they--for this program, or they run into 
trouble when they try to prove their eligibility. So I would 
just encourage the Commission to focus on that, and partnering 
with as many Federal and State agencies as we can to kind of 
fill in that gap there that may exist with people we already 
know or identify to other agencies.
    And thank you all so much for coming. We wish for your 
success. Your success is America's success.
    And Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Doyle. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Hudson, 5 minutes.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Commissioners, it is good to see you here today.
    One of the things I hear all the time from my constituents 
back home in North Carolina is the lack of adequate access to 
broadband. This hearing is important to my constituents and to 
all of our constituents.
    You, the FCC, are on the precipice of making decades-long 
decisions which can propel our Nation into the next century by 
giving our children the ability to learn from anywhere; 
disrupting telecommunications strongholds by China; providing 
lifesaving treatments through telehealth, telemedicine; and 
making places like Carthage, Sanford, and, yes, Barbecue, North 
Carolina the epicenter of global commerce.
    In order to achieve this vision we must win the global race 
to 5G. With auction authority set to expire in September, I ask 
you, Mr. Chairman, to continue working with members on this 
side of the aisle to produce a bill extending the FCC's 
authority.
    The upcoming 2.5 auction has ample mid-band spectrum, which 
will vastly expand mobile connectivity in rural North Carolina.
    My first question is for Commissioner Carr. We have 
discussed my concerns about the potential for waste if 
governments don't prioritize funding to connect unserved 
communities that lack access to broadband, and my concern that 
guardrails on recent funding bills could have been a lot 
stronger. In my view, government-subsidized overbuilding will 
create distortions in the marketplace, and allow the government 
to pick winners and losers, with unserved and difficult-to-
reach communities getting the short end of the stick.
    How do we ensure coordination between the various agencies 
and governments who have an unprecedented level of funding? 
Does this come down to a single map?
    What else can Federal, State, and local officials do to 
ensure this doesn't happen, and we do not overbuild programs 
like RDOF that are already being deployed?
    Mr. Carr. Well, thank you, Congressman, for the question 
and your work leading on this.
    The single most important thing we can do right now is to 
make sure that there is no overbuilding with these Federal 
dollars. It has been a lot of work to make sure that we have 
enough Federal funds allocated to end the digital divide in 
this country. And the good news is that I think we are there 
with the amount that has been appropriated, if we put it into 
the communities that are still unserved.
    We cannot afford overbuilding and waste this potentially 
generational opportunity to eliminate the digital divide. So we 
have got to get our maps done. We have got to drive everything 
through that. We need greater coordination across agencies. We 
do have some agreements right now, but they don't cover all 
agencies or all funds within the agencies that it covers.
    And so these are some of the steps that we need to take, 
because we can't sit here three years from now and not have 
gotten billions of dollars' worth of bridging the digital 
divide.
    Mr. Hudson. Absolutely, I agree.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, congratulations on your position, 
and it is a real pleasure to have you here today.
    The FCC has taken significant steps in recent years to 
identify and make available spectrum for commercial use, 
including for 5G deployment, and that is critical to ensuring 
the U.S. leads over China. I understand the FCC is currently 
examining the potential of 5G in the 12 gigahertz band through 
extensive engineering reviews, and some want to use the 12 
gigahertz band for terrestrial use, but there is disagreement 
over whether this will cause harmful interference to existing 
satellite systems.
    What is the status of the FCC's technical review?
    Will you commit to complete your review in a timely manner, 
especially if we find that coexistence is possible between 
satellite and terrestrial use in this case?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Sure. One of the most complex dockets we 
have involves the 12 gigahertz band. So you went right there.
    The 12 gigahertz band historically has had fixed satellite 
systems in it. It has had direct broadcast satellite, and it 
has had multichannel video data distribution systems. And now 
we might want to add mobile broadband to the mix. As you might 
imagine, that is going to take a lot of technical work to make 
sure that the airwaves can accommodate all those different uses 
without harmful interference.
    And some of the data we have on our record points to 
different interference-to-noise ratios that are copied from the 
International Telecommunications Union, but are 30 years old. 
We have satellite policies we are going to have to update. And 
once we identify harmful interference, we will have to model 
what it looks like, and try to come up with standards for where 
satellite terminals can be compared to 5G systems.
    These issues, to be candid, will take time, but they take 
time because they are really important, and we need to do them 
well.
    Mr. Hudson. Right. Well, I appreciate that. And the last 
question, in North Carolina and across the Nation, small rural 
broadband providers are, in some instances, alone in servicing 
their communities. They don't have large staffs to work on 
grant applications, other paperwork requirements. What steps 
does the FCC take to ensure that its regulations do not impose 
disproportionate burdens on smaller broadband providers?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. We always take steps to consider small 
providers in all of our proceedings. We recognize they may not 
have the resources needed to fully participate. And, as you 
acknowledge, when it comes to broadband they may be the 
companies and individuals we most need to deploy in some of our 
most remote locales. So we have got to be mindful of that in 
everything we do.
    Mr. Hudson. Well, thank you very much.
    Mr. Chairman, I am not as good as Billy, but I will yield 
back 12 seconds.
    Mr. Doyle. I thank the gentleman. The gentleman yields 
back. The Chair recognizes Mr. Soto for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Soto. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you to our FCC 
Commissioners for being here.
    We just had Secretary Cardona from the U.S. Department of 
Education in central Florida today. We know that our kids have 
been through so much, our teachers have been through so much, 
and connectivity has helped us through it, through distance 
learning. But we also saw gaps in connectivity, especially in 
our rural areas. And while we work with NTIA on rural broadband 
infrastructure, it also will be critical for cell phone service 
that we work with the FCC to improve this connectivity.
    So I want to thank you all for the great work you have done 
on the Emergency Connectivity Fund and the Affordable 
Connectivity Program. Places in rural areas like Frostproof, 
Florida, Saint Cloud, Lake Wales, and in Kissimmee benefit 
greatly by this access to cell phone service.
    I wanted to also talk about the digital divide directly. I 
got to speak early on with you, Commissioner Starks, about the 
amazing work that you all have been doing in the FCC. So it 
would be great to get an update for my constituents, including 
my wife, who is an assistant principal here in Osceola County, 
on the work that you all are doing to help with that digital 
divide and homework gap.
    Mr. Starks. It is a great question. Thank you, Congressman. 
And for your wife's efforts for your continued efforts, you 
know, equitable education requires internet access, and many 
schools, organizations have worked hard to close the gap. But 
despite that, you know, reports have said, you know, going into 
the pandemic, nearly a year there, that you still had over 12 
million students who remain digitally disconnected, under-
served.
    And so last year, even I made it a point to hear from 
students myself. I met with students in Detroit, Michigan at 
Brenda Scott Academy, a disproportionately high reduced-lunch 
folks and students. And they talked about, you know, how they 
were trying to learn on their devices, on a cell phone. The 
most striking moment was a student who told me that she needed 
a better internet, and that was plain and simple.
    The ECF has done an enormous amount of work, and is 
continuing, and so the commission staff who stood up this 
program deserve a lot of praise, as well.
    Mr. Soto. Well, thank you, Commissioner.
    Chair Rosenworcel, thank you for your leadership, and 
congrats on your chairwomanship.
    In central Florida we have Cape Canaveral, where there is 
NASA, SpaceX, Blue Origin, and satellite internet has become a 
major part of connectivity. We see that with StarLink across 
the United States, and also with the crisis in Ukraine. 
Unfortunately, sometimes we see speculators that are proposing 
to repurpose the 12 gigahertz spectrum that these satellite 
operators use. It would be great to hear of your continued 
support for this critical spectrum use by satellite systems to 
help with the very isolated areas in both Florida and in areas 
across the world.
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Thank you. You really do have this space 
age happening in your backyard in Florida. We want to make sure 
at the FCC that it continues to be viable, too. We have a 
proceeding on the 12 gigahertz band that involves a lot of 
satellite systems, and now possibly the introduction of mobile 
terrestrial use.
    This is a complex proceeding, as complex as any proceeding 
before the agency. We are combing through engineering 
documents. We are trying to identify if the--having these 
services coexist is viable, what interference might be harmful, 
how we should model it. That work is all underway. I can assure 
you that we have our best engineers assessing this right now, 
and we can continue to keep you updated as we proceed.
    Mr. Soto. Thank you, Chairwoman.
    And I want to end just by stressing the importance of the 
Rural Digital Opportunity Fund program. This is critical for 
areas like South Osceola and Polk County in my district. And 
together we will close this digital divide, this homework gap, 
and the need to improve access for rural businesses in 
Florida's 9th congressional district, in central Florida and 
across the Nation.
    And with that, Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes 
Mr. Walberg for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the 
Commissioners for being with us today.
    Getting spectrum into the marketplace quickly is essential 
for connecting Americans across the country. We remember back 
during the Trump Administration, the FCC freed up an 
unprecedented amount of spectrum by taking an all-of-the-above 
approach, including for both licensed and unlicensed operations 
in low, mid, and high-band frequencies.
    Chairman Rosenworcel--and again, congratulations for your 
chairship--in 2018 you called for the FCC to maintain a 
spectrum calendar to increase transparency about how and when 
the new resources will be made available to the public. I 
agreed with the merits of this idea, but I haven't seen a 
follow-through on that call yet.
    Are you still committed to putting out a spectrum calendar?
    And if so, what bands, beyond the already scheduled 2.5 
gigahertz auction, would you place on the calendar either for 
auction or making available for the unlicensed?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Sure. To be clear, in 2018, in the Mobile 
Now Act, this committee and Congress required us to publish an 
annualized calendar, which we did in September of last year.
    As you have acknowledged, we have already auctioned the 
3.45 gigahertz band, and we now have the 2.5 gigahertz band in 
our sights for July.
    Going forward, I would ask this committee's help on two 
fronts.
    First, the Spectrum Pipeline Act from 2015 requires NTIA to 
identify 30 megahertz of spectrum below 3 gigahertz for 
auction. I would like you to make sure that that actually comes 
to fruition.
    And then I know you are working hard to try to identify how 
we might be able to have access to 200 megahertz of spectrum in 
the 3.1 to 3.45 gigahertz band, which--the auction of those 
airwaves was delayed by the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs 
Act.
    So those would be two of the bands that I have in my 
sights, but two of the bands that I also need this committee's 
help to bring to commercial market.
    Mr. Walberg. We hope we can do that.
    Chairperson Rosenworcel, turning to oversight, Congress 
created a $7 billion Emergency Connectivity Fund, as we have 
talked about, to help schools and libraries stay connected to 
their students during the COVID-19 pandemic. The FCC has 
distributed over five million connected devices through the 
ECF.
    My concern is that--does the FCC have a system in place 
that has kept track of where these devices went after they were 
sent to the schools and libraries?
    And what safeguards are currently in place to make sure 
that the devices purchased through the Emergency Connectivity 
Fund are not duplicated across other programs?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. It is absolutely imperative that we 
prevent waste, fraud, and abuse in this program and any other 
program. But I would love to followup with you with more 
specifics to make sure that I give you precisely the rules that 
apply to this program, and not one of the other ones that I 
have in my head at this moment right now. So we will followup 
with you on that.
    Mr. Walberg. We will look forward to that.
    Ms. Rosenworcel. OK.
    Mr. Walberg. Because I think we agree, we have too few 
resources to waste, and that includes our kids. I am glad most 
of them are back in school in the classroom now.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, my final question is I want to 
followup on an answer you gave to Leader Rodgers's question 
earlier about rate regulation. I just want to make sure that 
there aren't any hidden asterisks in your statement when you 
say, ``no rate regulation.'' Are you including within that a 
commitment not to apply section 201 and 202's just and 
reasonable provisions to broadband rates, either before or 
after the fact?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. There is no asterisks.
    Mr. Walberg. No asterisks. I am glad to hear that.
    And, Mr. Chairman, I am going to return 56 seconds.
    Mr. Doyle. Wow. I will tell you, you guys are making our 
side look bad. I thank the gentleman for yielding back.
    The Chair recognizes Mr. Butterfield for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Butterfield. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Can I 
add his 56 seconds to my time?
    OK----
    Mr. Doyle. No, you may not.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Butterfield. My request is denied. But thank you, Mr. 
Chairman, for convening this very important hearing today. And 
thank you to our guests today. And thank you for the incredible 
work that you do at the Commission.
    And let me also say good afternoon to my colleagues. I am 
not in the committee room. I wish I could see all of you. But 
hopefully, we will be back to normal very, very soon.
    Chair Rosenworcel, we chatted a few days ago, and let me 
just congratulate you and thank you on your incredible service, 
not just since you have been on the Commission, but your 
service before you joined the Commission. I know your resume, 
and I know you have been very dedicated and committed down 
through the years. And I just thank you so very much. I am 
confident that you are going to really make a significant mark 
on the work of the Commission.
    And to the other Commissioners, Commissioner Starks, you 
and I are friends and have been for years, and Commissioners 
Carr and Simington, it is just good to see all of you. But let 
me just get right to the point.
    Like Congresswoman Rice said a few moments ago, this is 
very important. The Affordable Connectivity Program, ACP, is 
incredibly important. And I just thank you for your leadership 
to ensure the success of the Affordable Connectivity Program 
and the Emergency Connectivity Fund. These are two very 
important initiatives in my State.
    In North Carolina, over 400,000 households are enrolled in 
the ACP, and schools and libraries in the State have been 
awarded some $150 million in funding, with over $17 million of 
that in my congressional district. That is a big deal. These 
are real, meaningful benefits for my constituents. And I hope 
that all of you will continue to work together in ensuring the 
success of these important programs.
    I want to commend the Commission's work on pole 
replacements and dispute resolution. I wrote to the FCC last 
year urging you to act on this important issue. So I appreciate 
the Commission taking steps like this so that unserved 
households, like those in my district, can get online much 
faster.
    So let's start with question No. 1, and I will start with 
the Chair. I would like to move on to my bill, the Expanding 
Broadcast Ownership Opportunities Act, which focuses on 
bringing back the FCC's minority tax certificate program. And 
you and I have talked about it over the years. It is designed 
to incentivize diversity of ownership in the broadcasting 
industry.
    Let me ask you, Madam Chair and Commissioner Starks. Both 
of you have been outspoken about the positive impacts of this 
program. I would like to offer the opportunity for all the FCC 
Commissioners to eventually embrace this idea, and to 
understand the potential benefits of reinstating the tax 
certificate program.
    Madam Chair, if you would, speak very briefly to this.
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Sure. I embrace it fully, wholly, and 
completely. History demonstrates it was the single most 
effective tool we had to increase the diversity of ownership of 
media properties in the United States.
    Mr. Butterfield. And Commissioner Starks, can you add to 
that, please?
    Mr. Starks. Yes.
    Mr. Butterfield. Go ahead.
    Mr. Starks. I emphatically and foot-stomp it, as well. 
Fourteen hundred full-power commercial broadcast television 
stations, less than six percent owned by women, less than three 
percent are minority-owned. And the minority tax certificate 
program speaks for itself with the great results that it 
achieved.
    Mr. Butterfield. Thank you.
    And back to our chair, Madam Chair, my bill, the Data 
Mapping to Save Moms' Lives Act--that is a mouthful, but we 
have talked about it before--it directs the FCC to use its data 
mapping tool to track maternal mortality and severe morbidity 
rates. Making the connection between maternal mortality rate 
and broadband access is crucial to identifying areas that lack 
support, especially in African American communities, where the 
maternal mortality rate is unacceptably high.
    Can you discuss this with us in the few seconds that we 
have left?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Sure. The United States is the only 
industrialized economy with an increasing level of maternal 
mortality. It is a quiet crisis. There are new telehealth 
technologies that can help women during their pregnancies and 
produce better outcomes for them and their children. We have 
got to figure out how to use broadband connections to make 
those better outcomes happen, and I think your bill and the 
data we collect pursuant to it would help with just that.
    Mr. Butterfield. And Commissioner Starks, can you use the 
last 20 seconds to talk to us about modifying the commission's 
FM booster rules?
    Mr. Starks. Yes. Thank you for the question, Congressman.
    This proposal garnered 21 civil rights organizations' 
support. You know, small radio station operators frequently are 
also small business owners. I heard from them how hard it was 
for them to weather the pandemic, as well. So I see great 
potential in this geobroadcast technology improving local radio 
experience, news, weather, emergency, as well as positioning 
small broadcasters and broadcasters of color to compete for 
listeners and advertising dollars.
    And very last, I would like to say, Congressman 
Butterfield, thank you for your long dedication to public 
service. Your legacy of excellence is something that I follow, 
and particularly in the media and telecom space.
    Mr. Butterfield. I am grateful. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair 
recognizes Mr. Duncan for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Duncan. Thank you. And Mr. Chairman, I don't know if 
the Democrats are practicing baseball yet, but you look awful 
alert to have gotten up so early, if you all are.
    I want to thank the Commissioners for being here. After 
over 500 days of not having an oversight hearing, I am glad we 
are finally doing that.
    We have talked a lot today about the need for expanding 
rural broadband connectivity, accurate mapping, and interagency 
cooperation to ensure we aren't double-building in the process. 
So I want to echo these concerns, and the need to build out the 
rural networks, rural broadband, rural networks. I think there 
needs to be a huge percentage going to rural America, instead 
of inner cities, where there may already be existing networks, 
and not just keep spending billions of tax dollars repeatedly 
on the same inner-city neighborhoods.
    We have also talked a lot today about spectrum, and the 
scarcity of spectrum, and the need for continuing and expanding 
auction authority to make more spectrum available, and ensuring 
that the spectrum we make available is usable for industry. I 
also want to echo those concerns, but this ground has pretty 
much been covered by the time you get to me.
    So, Commissioner Carr, I want to ask you, in your testimony 
you mentioned the need to push back against the abuses of Big 
Tech. And I especially want to focus on anti-discrimination 
provisions that you mentioned. What do you think we in Congress 
need to do to protect First Amendment rights of conservative 
content creators, local businesses, local broadcasters, and 
others who feel they have been trampled on by Big Tech, keeping 
the importance of that and multiplicity of information sources 
that you mentioned in your testimony in mind?
    Mr. Carr. Thank you, Congressman. Thanks to you for your 
work on this issue of reining in Big Tech. I think, first and 
foremost, we have to fundamentally overhaul section 230. There 
are portions of section 230 that are pro-speech, that create 
incentives to leave speech up, particularly political speech. 
And there is portions of section 230 that today have been 
misread by courts, as Justice Thomas have walked through, to 
give them, internet companies, carte blanche to remove any 
speech that they want. That is not the intent of Congress in 
section 230. And I think Congress needs to amend section 230 in 
a way that is going to promote more speech.
    But 230 reform alone isn't going to be enough. That is why 
we need to impose some basic transparency obligations on Big 
Tech. Right now it is a total black box. Some speech is left 
up, some is taken down. There is no consistency at all. I think 
we need some basic non-discrimination that could take a lot of 
different forms, whether it is treating like cases alike, or 
looking at legislation in the Senate that Senator Wicker has 
that talks about trying to protect speech that is political in 
nature from discriminate takedowns.
    And I think there is steps we can do in terms of user 
empowerment. Right now, the whole point of section 230 was to 
give a little bit of balance between content moderation that 
websites do and empowering--giving users tools to engage. And 
right now, that balance has shifted too far.
    And I think one step that we could do would be to empower 
users to make their own content moderation decisions. If you 
want Fox News to filter your feed before you see it, maybe plug 
that in. If you want MSNBC's to do it, plug that in. There can 
be third parties that offer ways to do content filtering, or 
someone can just choose the Wild West version.
    But if we give people more power to make those decisions, I 
think that is a pro-speech reform that we would be better off, 
because then we can have, you know, robust, wide open political 
debates, which we are better for, because that is how we solve 
problems in this country. It is not by keeping ideas off the 
table, but by having robust discussions about them.
    Mr. Duncan. I would love to see this committee or the full 
committee deal with 230 protections, and have Big Tech come 
back in, where we could delve into that.
    I will move on. Mr.--Commissioner Simington, I know you are 
a big proponent of looking at regulation of receivers as a way 
to increase efficiency of how we use spectrum, based on its 
scarce resource. How would you address the concerns of industry 
about the potential burdens of such regulations? And what are 
the benefits of ensuring that government users of spectrum have 
to upgrade their standards to be more efficient?
    Mr. Simington. This is a great question, because the 
difficulty of taking receiver standards up in the past has 
always been that it is a much, much, much more difficult 
question than physical assessment of transmission.
    You can put a transmitter in a box and test if it is 
emitting according to spec. For a receiver, you have to field 
test it, and you have to field test it under a wide variety of 
interference conditions. It is an exponentially more 
complicated problem, much more like a large research lab's R&D 
function than something that the Commission is capable of 
doing. And that is exactly what we don't want to do here.
    So hopefully, industry is being assured right here, right 
now that we are not going to cram burdensome regulations down 
on them. Instead, the idea is going to be to assess what 
constitutes an acceptable threshold of interference between 
every band and service right here, right now, and then to be 
able to compare and contrast them to understand where it is 
that receivers' improvements could lead to the availability of 
bands for commercialization, or to otherwise greater spectral 
efficiency.
    I think that is the last free real eState we are likely to 
find in the spectrum, but it is very valuable. So hopefully, 
that is how we will get there.
    Mr. Duncan. Yes----
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time----
    Mr. Duncan [continuing]. Thank you.
    Mr. Doyle [continuing]. Has expired.
    Mr. Duncan. Thank you, I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The Chair recognizes Ms. Matsui for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for having 
this hearing today. And I want to welcome the Commissioners, 
and especially congratulate Chairwoman Rosenworcel.
    And I also want to say it sounds like we are having a 
productive--you know, before it even got to this point now 
today, so you have already done productive work already.
    I have a question regarding receiver standards. While 
recent disputes have highlighted the importance of spectrum 
governance and coordination, it also reinforces the need to 
take a meaningful look at the role receivers play in supporting 
or hindering more intensive use of airwaves. I know the FCC 
will be examining this important issue soon.
    I am also working on draft legislation that I believe can 
complement this effort by assuring the Federal Government isn't 
buying outdated or inefficient technology.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel and Commissioner Simington, can you 
describe the relationship between Federal receivers and the 
spectrum pipeline, and do you think legislation addressing 
Federal receiver supply could complement the FCC's work?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Thank you for the question and your 
interest in spectrum policy, generally.
    Traditionally, we have had discussions about just 
transition when it comes to spectrum. But if we want to be 
efficient, we also have to think about the other end. We have 
to think about receiving. For that reason, working with 
Commissioner Simington, we have a notice of inquiry we will 
consider next month on this subject.
    But I think what you are raising in legislation is really 
important. Making spectrum receiver efficiency part of 
government purchasing will change the market for receiver 
equipment because government purchases at a greater scale than 
anyone else.
    I think that that was a subject of an old executive order, 
and it is an idea we need to revisit right now.
    Ms. Matsui. OK, thank you. Mr. Simington, do you have a 
comment?
    Mr. Simington. Yes. I just wanted to express my 
appreciation for your work on the proposed Spectrum Coexistence 
Act. I have, frankly, I have heard it quietly said by people at 
major executive branch agencies that focus on spectral 
efficiency, in terms of agency and government procurement, is 
exactly how to improve relationships with the FCC.
    Ms. Matsui. OK, thank you.
    A reliable pipeline of valuable mid-band spectrum is a 
fundamental part of keeping the U.S. ahead in the race to the 
next generation wireless technology. To help keep our pipeline 
robust and predictable, I recently called on NTIA Administrator 
Davidson to finish the 2019 study on the 7 gigahertz band.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, you recently highlighted the 
importance of spectrum in the 7 to 15 gigahertz range for 6G. 
How would completion of the study help industry prepare for the 
future?
    And can you describe its potential for commercial use?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Yes, thank you. So we are already going 
there. We are talking about 6G. And it feels early, but there 
are other nations that are already doing this, so I think we 
should start targeting some airwaves.
    At Mobile World Congress I mentioned, as you suggested, 
that spectrum between the 7 and 15 gigahertz bands should be 
our target. So that NTIA study you mentioned that I believe is 
ongoing is really important.
    Ms. Matsui. OK. Thank you very much.
    In California wildfire season has grown from a seasonal 
concern to almost a year-round threat. In the face of more 
frequent and severe wildfires, hurricanes, and tornadoes, I 
introduced the bipartisan Emergency Reporting Act, which passed 
the House earlier this Congress. I am glad to see the 
Commission taking action to improve network outage reporting to 
help us prepare for and respond to emergencies.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, what steps is the FCC taking to 
strengthen the resiliency of communications networks during 
emergencies?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Thank you. You know, whether it is 
snowstorms in Texas or wildfires out West, we have got once-in-
a-lifetime weather events happening with increasing frequency.
    After Hurricane Ida hit land in Louisiana, Commissioner 
Carr and I went and studied the communications damage and we 
came back and immediately started a proceeding to consider how 
we should, you know, update our wireless cooperative resiliency 
framework that helps keep wireless service running after 
disaster, what kind of notification is necessary for 911 and 
first responders in a disaster, and what reforms we can make so 
that our power companies work better with our communications 
companies.
    That is a discussion that is still ongoing, but I really do 
appreciate that Commissioner Carr decided to participate in 
that, and has been really thoughtful in trying to find ways to 
advance it, consistent with the kind of concerns you just 
described.
    Ms. Matsui. OK. Well, thank you very much.
    And Mr. Chairman, I will yield back--well, I guess--I was 
going to yield back 1-second.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Doyle. You are right on time, Doris, thank you. The 
Chair recognizes Mr. Cardenas for 5 minutes.
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Doyle. Mr. Cardenas, you are--you have 5 minutes.
    Mr. Cardenas. Hello, this is Cardenas. I have 5 minutes?
    Mr. Doyle. Yes, you are up.
    Mr. Cardenas. OK, thank you so much. I was having problems 
with my iPad. Thank you very much. I appreciate this 
opportunity, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, so that we can have 
this opportunity to work with and speak to the FCC 
Commissioners, and all the wonderful work that is going on 
around the country, and implementing legislation that we have 
all passed and are very excited about.
    I would like to highlight, first of all, the 
accomplishments of the Emergency Broadband Benefit Program, the 
Affordable Connectivity Program, as well. EBB and ACP are great 
examples that demonstrates what a partnership between Congress, 
the FCC, and the internet service providers, the private 
providers that can lead to including making this program a 
reality for so many consumers. Public-private partnerships can 
and do work. The FCC successfully implemented this program, and 
the private sector stepped up to participate and help consumers 
by offering free and low-cost broadband to ensure that every 
family has access to reliable, affordable, high-speed internet 
to stay connected and to close the digital divide.
    For example, this morning I just found out that Charter 
announced 100 megabit speed for under $30 a month. That means--
and also with no equipment, no installation charges, et cetera. 
That means that, with $30 a month ACP credit, we will be able 
to see families across America be able to afford to have access 
to the internet at a speed that is--so that people can do their 
homework and then get their work done.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, it is good to see you. I love 
working with you. And thank you so much for making yourself so 
accessible to so many communities around the country, 
especially in my district. How do you think the FCC can build 
on this success, so that all households and communities can 
benefit from the personal and economic benefits of high-speed 
broadband internet?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Thank you for the question, and thank you 
for the work you are doing to get out the word about the 
Affordable Connectivity Program in your own district.
    We are partnering with anyone and everyone who has a good 
idea. We have worked with the Department of Education to send 
out emails to everyone with a Pell Grant in this country. We 
have worked with the Department of Labor to make sure that in 
State unemployment centers there is information about these 
materials. And my colleague, Commissioner Starks, is 
spearheading an effort to work with Federal housing authorities 
to make sure that they too learn about it.
    The bottom line is that our program is up for iteration at 
any moment in time when people on this committee or anyone else 
has a good idea about how we effectively get the word out so 
people hear about it from people they trust. So keep us posted. 
We would love to have your ideas. Keep them coming.
    Mr. Cardenas. Thank you. And thank you for all the work 
that you are doing across departments. I know people accuse 
government of being too siloed, so thank you for demonstrating 
that it can be done. And thank you for the success that the FCC 
has had working across different agencies and departments.
    When it comes to spectrum, two issues are very clear: 
first, we need more spectrum available for commercial use; and 
second, with little greenfield spectrum left, we need to use 
all available tools to determine the most efficient use of 
spectrum in every band.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, you and the FCC have really 
showcased this ingenuity working with DoD, NTIA, and the 
wireless industry to develop a successful sharing framework in 
the CBRS, otherwise known as Citizens Broadband Radio Service, 
thereby allowing commercial operators access to critical mid-
band spectrum, while protecting DoD operations in the band. We 
should consider how sharing regimes like this one can be used 
in other bands, including 3.1 to 3.4 gigahertz, and band that--
lower portions of the 37 gigahertz band.
    With spectrum being scarce, a scarce resource, what other 
types of innovative sharing regimes are you considering to help 
ensure we are getting the most efficient use out of every 
megahertz of spectrum?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Going forward, it is not going to be easy. 
We are going to need creative spectrum policies like what you 
just mentioned in the CBRS band. And we are also going to need 
new technologies, continued use of automatic frequency 
coordination, so that we have dynamic, real-time information 
about when airwaves are available and when they are not.
    The United States has always led on these issues. And going 
forward it is something that I think we should continue to 
pursue, and it is going to be a feature of our spectrum policy 
for the foreseeable future.
    Mr. Cardenas. Leading is a source of pride, but, more 
importantly, it is about economics and leading the world like 
we have in the past.
    I would love to ask Mr. Starks a question to expand on 
housing and access to--when it comes to public housing, et 
cetera, but I apologize. Hopefully you have an opportunity to 
expand on that.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. OK, I thank the gentleman. The Chair now 
recognizes Ms. Kelly for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was a proud supporter 
of the American Rescue Plan Act and its creation of the 
Emergency Connectivity Fund. This legislation was targeted at 
helping us close the homework gap that has been talked about. 
The ECF is helping students and teachers across the country 
access what is now a basic educational tool: the Internet. 
Already, schools and libraries in Illinois have been awarded 
over $200 million from ECF, of which over $7 million has been 
awarded to my district, which is urban, suburban, and rural.
    The Affordable Connectivity Program is another important 
program enacted on a bipartisan basis that is helping to 
connect the unconnected. Over ten million consumers have signed 
up for the program, and it is helping over 335,000 Illinoisans 
pay for broadband service each month.
    However, we know that nationwide there are over 38 million 
households eligible for ACP that aren't signed up yet. 
Marginalized communities, including people of color, immigrant 
populations, and non-English-speaking communities are 
disproportionately disconnected, and are less likely to be 
aware of ACP.
    Chairwoman, how does the FCC plan to engage with hard-to-
reach communities to ensure they are aware of the programs and 
ultimately enrolled?
    And let me give my congratulations to you.
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Thank you. I have said it before, I will 
say it again: We need trusted actors in communities getting the 
word out.
    One of the things that we are doing right now is running a 
proceeding to identify how to spend the outreach dollars we 
have with local institutions to make sure that they have the 
resources they need to amplify this program and reach people 
where they are.
    I will also add that, as an act of transparency, on a 
monthly basis we publish statistics for this program on a zip 
code basis. So every office that serves on this committee can 
look at that data, and try to understand if there is an area 
within their district where they feel that more progress can be 
made, you should let us know. We will study that data with you, 
and try to identify a way forward.
    Ms. Kelly. Thank you so much, I appreciate it.
    Commissioner Starks, do you have any additional thoughts on 
how the FCC can engage with hard-to-reach communities?
    Mr. Starks. It is a great question, Congresswoman. As I 
have mentioned, the pilot program, particularly with public 
housing--I agree with Chairwoman Rosenworcel, making sure that 
our community-based organizations--advertising is going to be 
important.
    One additional thing that I would offer up to you, 
Congresswoman Kelly. You know, seniors are, in particular, a 
group that I think would benefit also from additional focus on 
ACP. Just one out of three seniors, you know, one out of three 
seniors lacks a home broadband connection. Nearly 13 percent of 
seniors live at or below the poverty line. And so there is a 
way that they need to be part of our targeted reach out.
    You know, I would also say, based upon the numbers thus far 
for ACP, seniors only account for, you know, maybe about 10, 
12, 15 percent of folks that are currently enrolling. And so 
the last thing that I would say here, obviously, when you are 
talking about digital divide with seniors particularly, issues 
of digital literacy come into play. Making sure that seniors 
have the confidence in both setting up and using their internet 
connections is going to be a big part of that reach-out, as 
well.
    Ms. Kelly. Thank you so much. Through the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act, we are investing $65 billion to help 
ensure that everyone has access to reliable, affordable, high-
speed internet. We know everyone is waiting on the FCC's 
broadband maps so this important work can get underway. But we 
have seen problems in the past when we spent limited Federal 
dollars to build out our broadband networks without first 
having accurate service maps.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, congratulations on recently winning 
the bid process you all faced getting the maps underway. But 
with that, can you tell us why it is important that the 
Commission not sacrifice accuracy for speed in developing these 
maps, especially when this historic investment is at stake?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. For too long at the FCC we have had maps 
that don't work, that overState service. And as a result, when 
we have Federal dollars, we don't always send them to the right 
places. So we have got to put a premium right now on getting it 
right, because we are spending more money on broadband 
deployment than ever before. And we are going to also put a 
premium on sharing our data with every single part of the 
Federal Government that is giving out funds for broadband. We 
want to make sure that we are coordinating like never before, 
as well.
    Ms. Kelly. Thank you. I just want to close by saying I am 
eager for the fifth Commissioner to be seated, so you will be 
at full capacity.
    And I want to express my support for the agency acting to 
re-establish its authority.
    I yield back two seconds--or one now.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair recognizes 
Mrs. Fletcher for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Fletcher. Thank you, Chairman Doyle. And thanks to you 
and Ranking Member Latta for convening today's hearing on the 
Federal Communications Commission and its role regulating 
communications across the country.
    And thank you to Chairwoman Rosenworcel, and 
congratulations, as well. Thank you to Commissioners Carr, 
Starks, and Simington for joining us today, and for your 
testimony. It has been very helpful, I think, for all of us to 
hear these perspectives and cover these range of issues.
    And I join all of my colleagues who have expressed their 
appreciation for your efforts to expand broadband deployment to 
all communities, rural and urban. That includes your 
leadership, in addition to all of your work in administering 
the two historic affordability programs that we have discussed 
today, the Affordable Connectivity Program and the Emergency 
Connectivity Fund.
    In particular, schools and libraries in Texas's 7th 
congressional district that I represent have been awarded more 
than $4 million through the ECF, and I know this will open 
doors and opportunity for so many young people in my district. 
So we are very appreciative of those efforts.
    And Chairman Rosenworcel, I wanted to take a minute to 
touch on this. I really support your approach to incentivizing 
communities and providers to work together toward the shared 
goal of broadband deployment everywhere. And that is why last 
year I introduced the Broadband Incentives for Communities Act 
to provide critical resources to cities and counties to enhance 
their zoning and permitting functions.
    Based on the experiences in my district in Houston, where 
we have rolled out 5G, where we have a lot of folks who have a 
lot of experience here, we have seen that those can be real 
challenges. And so to enable the cities, counties, communities 
that are permitting this expansion, we put together this bill 
to help facilitate that process. And given the billions of 
dollars provided for broadband under the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act, we should make sure that local 
jurisdictions that are interested in expanding critical 
broadband and 5G services have access to the resources that 
they need to manage the process, as well as clear incentives to 
move quickly.
    So I would welcome the opportunity to work with you on this 
issue by making this concept really a critical part of our 
ongoing Federal support for fixed and wireless broadband 
deployment. And that connects a little bit with, I think, your 
approach, Chairwoman Rosenworcel, about kind of a carrots-and-
not-sticks approach for communities when it comes to broadband 
deployment. Can you talk a little bit more about your approach 
and strategy, and why you think that that is how we should move 
forward with broadband deployment?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Sure. You know, there are two things I 
know to be true here. First, that we have a massive 
infrastructure project underway in the United States right now 
to bring high-speed broadband to everyone, everywhere. And the 
second thing I know to be true is that we have a tradition of 
local control in the United States. We have got a Tenth 
Amendment, and we have got people who want to have a say in 
what is happening in their own backyard. So we have got to 
figure out how to manage both of those two realities at the 
same time.
    And I think what you are describing is spot on. We should 
make sure that, when we are developing programs with Federal 
funds, we condition those funds on having a reasonable and 
streamlined process for things like permitting and rights-of-
way. And if we do that, we will both be able to build out this 
infrastructure and honor that tradition of local control, and 
do it in a reasonably speedy way. I think that is a win-win 
across the board.
    So I very much appreciate the approach you just described, 
and we would be happy to work with you on it further.
    Mrs. Fletcher. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. I very 
much look forward to the opportunity to do that.
    And with the minute or so I have left, I also just want to 
touch on the theme of resiliency for our communications 
networks. In recent years in my district in Houston we have 
seen many types of disasters, from the winter freeze that 
everyone observed last year, to three 500-year floods three 
years in a row that knocked out power and hindered 
communications access. So I would love to get your thoughts and 
input on how we ensure network resiliency of existing networks, 
and how we promote resiliency in the construction of new 
networks. On just that for 30 seconds or so.
    Ms. Rosenworcel. We have an outstanding proceeding just on 
that issue. And it was the byproduct of a trip that 
Commissioner Carr and I took after Hurricane Ida.
    We are looking at updating the wireless cooperative 
resiliency framework. We are looking at making sure that first 
responders and public safety authorities get timely notice of 
outages. And we are looking at improvements we can make for 
coordination between telecommunications companies and power 
companies, because commercial power is so important for modern 
communications.
    Mrs. Fletcher. Well, thank you so much for that.
    I will ask the other Commissioners to respond for the 
record, since we won't have time.
    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]
    Mrs. Fletcher. And I will yield back with 2-seconds, 
Chairman Doyle, thank you very much.
    Mr. Doyle. I thank the gentlelady. The Chair recognizes Mr. 
Pence for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Pence. Thank you, Chairman Doyle and Ranking Member 
Latta, for allowing me to join this subcommittee hearing today. 
And thank you to the Commissioners for being here.
    As many of my colleagues have discussed today, rural 
communities are left at a disadvantage because of a lack of 
access to broadband service. Certainly, in my Indiana 6th 
district, that is the case. Too many of my constituents 
throughout southeast Indiana remain unserved, not under-served, 
totally unserved by broadband providers. That means access to 
telehealth, online education, remote work opportunities, and 
social connections with family and friends are simply out of 
reach.
    If we are going to close the digital divide with Federal 
resources, the FCC should prioritize, in my opinion, parts of 
the country that remain unserved before upgrading existing 
networks in covered areas like my Indianapolis.
    Unfortunately, the delayed process for improving outdated 
broadband service maps is still an issue for providers in my 
district. Currently, consensus block data will show coverage 
across my district, but all I have to do is drive from 
Columbus, my hometown, to Richmond or Rushville, and I can tell 
you where I have no service.
    Meanwhile, broadband infrastructure has not escaped the 
inflation and supply chain disruptions that ripple across the 
country. In my district materials for broadband infrastructure, 
such as fiber and other communication equipment, still face 
upwards of 12-month backorders.
    Last summer I wrote to the Department of Commerce with 17 
of my colleagues to consider opportunities to address these 
shortages and secure materials necessary to close the digital 
divide.
    Mr. Chairman, I request unanimous consent to insert this 
letter for the record.
    Mr. Doyle. Without objection, so ordered.
    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]
    Mr. Pence. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I encourage the Commission to find ways to share expertise 
with relevant agencies to alleviate delays and release 
broadband maps so that Federal funding can reflect the needs of 
southeast Indiana and all of rural America.
    Madam Chairwoman, I was pleased to see my bill, the 
Broadband Interagency Coordination Act, signed into law in 
2020. I understand the Commission has recently updated 
interagency agreements to include additional agencies regarding 
broadband coordination. However, it is also my understanding 
the FCC does not have an interagency agreement with every 
agency involved in broadband support programs.
    The IIJA requires your Commission to establish a deployment 
locations map to provide an overview of federally funded 
broadband deployment projects across the country. Can you 
explain the interagency process that your Commission is 
conducting to implement this law?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Sure. It is important that we coordinate, 
because we have a chance to make generational change with these 
funds, and we are only going to do it if we are all working 
together. And to that end, consistent with the law you 
described, in June of last year we signed a memorandum of 
understanding with the Department of Commerce and the 
Department of Agriculture to make sure that we share our data 
with them so that we can make sure our efforts work together, 
and not in opposition.
    I have already notified our colleagues at the Department of 
the Treasury we would like to do the same with them. They have 
a $10 billion fund. They are not mentioned in the legislation, 
but we are casting far and wide, and trying to make sure that 
we can all work off the same information, the same data sets, 
and make good decisions together.
    Mr. Pence. Well, I was interested--you know, I would have 
identified Treasury. Thank you for doing that. Are you 
optimistic that you are going to get everybody at the table 
together?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. I am persistent.
    Mr. Pence. You are----
    Ms. Rosenworcel. That might be better.
    Mr. Pence. You seem like you do, so good.
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Yes.
    Mr. Pence. Well, thank you very much----
    Ms. Rosenworcel. It can happen.
    Mr. Pence. Thank you all for being here.
    And Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. I thank the gentleman. Let's see, Mr. Welch, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Welch. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    First of all, I just want to say to everybody that your job 
is so important, especially since there has been such 
significant appropriations, basically bipartisan, to help on 
broadband.
    Mr. Carr, you said something. Your tone concerned me a 
little bit, but your concern I share. This money, OK, in a lot 
of ways, is the easy part. We need resources in order to get 
the capacity to have broadband in rural America. But it is--the 
hard, hard, hard work is actually getting it done, getting each 
house wired. So I share that concern.
    But the tone part of it worried me a little bit, because we 
are going to be depending on you and your organization to keep 
an eye on this as it is being implemented. And I just want you 
to know I share that concern, but I look to you and your 
colleagues and the Chair to make certain this money results in 
folks in all of our districts having the broadband that they 
absolutely need. Are you with me on that?
    Mr. Carr. Yes, absolutely.
    Mr. Welch. All right. So this has got to be a cooperative 
effort is what I am saying.
    Mr. Carr. Yes.
    Mr. Welch. I mean, you all got to be together on this, and 
it just would--I would want to shoot myself if I saw that this 
became a blame game before we even got rural America wired. So 
thank you. Thank you for that.
    Congratulations, now-Chairwoman Rosenworcel. I want to ask 
you about 911. Our colleague, Anna Eshoo, has been a huge 
champion of modernizing 911. And one of the challenges we have 
in Vermont is we have got these antiquated systems. You know, 
people are in back rooms, and there is bubblegum on the chair. 
You know, it is just--and we need it. It has got to work, but 
we need some funds. And you have got a spectrum auction that we 
are going to be considering re-authorizing.
    And I think Anna--Congresswoman Eshoo's thought is maybe we 
could use some of that money, not just to go back to the 
Treasury, but to upgrade the 911 services that we have around 
the country and, again, all of our districts. I would ask you 
to comment on that.
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Yes. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. 
I think it is an important idea.
    I think you have an opportunity to make history. We have 
got more than 6,000 911 call centers all across this country. 
You know, the odds are you might only call them once in your 
life, but it will be the most important call you ever make. And 
many of those centers are not upgraded for the digital age. But 
if you were to re-authorize our spectrum auctions, we take the 
revenue from public airwaves and dedicate it to setting up a 
nationwide fund to update 911. I think that is within this 
committee's power, and it would be a great thing to do.
    Mr. Welch. Yes, well, I hope all--but, Commissioner, you 
will have a discussion on that. But that certainly would be 
helpful to Vermont.
    Another question that I would ask each of you to answer, 
there is more and more VIoP
    [sic]--you know, the phones are over the internet, and that 
is happening in Vermont, it is happening all around. When they 
weren't over the internet, then there was regulatory authority 
if consumers had complaints. Now there is no regulatory 
authority if consumers have complaint for the voice over 
internet. I think there should be.
    And I just ask--I don't have much time, but ask each of 
you--I will start with you, Mr. Simington, whether you would be 
in favor of us making certain--actually, you can do it, have 
authority to address legitimate consumer complaints if they 
have problems with their voice over internet.
    Mr. Simington. It is certainly within Congress's power 
issue to require us to address anything of that nature, yes.
    Mr. Welch. I think it is within your power. I think you 
could do it, as well.
    Mr. Simington. Well, I have got no objection. And, as some 
of my colleagues have mentioned earlier today, we are moving up 
the timeline for VoIP in response to the TRACED Act exactly for 
that purpose.
    Mr. Welch. Thank you.
    And Mr. Carr?
    Mr. Carr. Thank you, Congressman, for the question. I am 
very open to taking a look at VoIP, and making sure we have the 
right regulatory framework around it----
    Mr. Welch. Right.
    Mr. Carr [continuing]. Given what that technology is, to 
make sure we protect consumers.
    Obviously, consumers have other services they have a 
certain expectation on, and it is not entirely clear to me 
that--why we should have such a gap with VoIP, as well.
    Mr. Welch. Thank you.
    And Chairwoman Rosenworcel?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Yes. Communications is an essential 
service. It needs oversight from the FCC.
    Mr. Welch. OK, thank you. Well, I certainly support that, 
and I appreciate you working together on it.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Starks. For my part, Congressman----
    Mr. Welch. Sorry, that is right, Mr.--I am sorry.
    Mr. Starks. No, no, no, no worries. The only thing that I 
would additionally add is that, you know, we adopted an NPRM 
seeking comment on a wide variety of resiliency issues, 
including VoIP services. And that may be another way that we 
can start to help think through this.
    Mr. Welch. OK. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair 
recognizes Mr. Carter for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank all of you 
for being here. This is extremely important.
    And I want to give a shout out to Commissioner Carr. He has 
been to my district before, and I appreciate that. I appreciate 
it very much.
    I want to ask you, Chairwoman Rosenworcel--we have rolled 
out some programs. Every time you roll out relief--and you need 
to be very careful. All of us understand that, and it needs to 
be delicately dealt with. However, we have not dealt with 
something like we have with this COVID pandemic in the past, 
and that is the enormous and quick rollout that we have had.
    Therefore, we--you know, there is always going to be 
problems, there is always going to be bad actors, and there is 
bad actors in everything. There is bad actors in pharmacy, bad 
actors in health care. And so it is just part of it.
    But I know that we are going to see and discover later on, 
as this--as time goes on, that there were a lot of bad actors, 
and that probably we are going to discover that. But 
unfortunately, we have already seen it. We have already seen it 
happen. The FCC inspector general recently detected fraud in 
the Emergency Broadband Benefit program.
    What were the OIG's findings on that? Can you go over that 
for me very quickly?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Sure. We had to get this program up and 
running in 60 days. And you also, I think, you know, in a smart 
effort, asked the inspector general, ``Take a close look at 
it,'' because you get a program up and running fast, you have 
got to make sure there are no loopholes.
    They identified a loophole, which is that we had a 
streamlined process for registering households that have 
children in community-eligible participation schools with high 
numbers of kids on the free and reduced lunch program. And 
immediately upon learning that we shut down our portal for 
collecting that--those applications, we added additional 
documentation. We referred bad actors to our enforcement 
bureau, and we also made sure that we reached out to every 
single provider and every single subscriber that had signed up 
through that portal to re-certify and re-verify them. And we 
have got ongoing enforcement activity to take--to hold to 
account anybody who caused problems using that portal.
    So to be candid with you, I think the system worked as 
intended. We got it up and running fast. We found a problem, 
and we addressed it with speed.
    Mr. Carter. Commissioner Carr, what lessons do you think we 
can learn from this, from these findings?
    And how can the FCC tighten eligibility in the enrollment 
process so that we reduce waste, fraud, and abuse?
    Mr. Carr. Thank you, Congressman, for the question. Great 
to see you again.
    You know, look, I think part of the concern that I had, and 
part of maybe the energy driving behind my concern is I really 
think we are headed toward a problem here. We are going to 
waste a lot of funds. And I wrote letters last summer to four 
different executive branch agencies--Treasury, Education, 
Commerce, Agriculture, about, hey, could we work together, can 
we coordinate to make sure we don't waste this opportunity? And 
I didn't even get responses from all of the agencies.
    And so the frustration that I have is that we are trying on 
the front end to solve this before it is too late. And it is 
not clear to me that we have the guardrails in place. So again, 
one, we have to have these maps at the FCC that we drive this 
through; we have to avoid overbuilding; we have to have 
tracking controls in place, so that agencies know where their 
funds are going, and one of the responses that I did get didn't 
give me a lot of confidence that we are doing that; and we need 
to empower our inspector general with the tools that they need 
to ferret out waste, fraud, and abuse.
    And in fact, there is a request even to get a Senate-
confirmed IG at the FCC. I don't know if that will be better or 
worse, but that is another step that could be taken.
    Mr. Carter. Right, good. Thank you for that.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, let me ask you. The Affordable 
Connectivity Program and the Emergency Connectivity Fund, they 
both provide funding for devices and internet connectivity, 
some of which can be used to purchase a hotspot or a connected 
device. In instances where an eligible low-income household is 
also eligible for ECF funds, how is the FCC ensuring that these 
two programs are not duplicating one another?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. We actually have rules in place to prevent 
that from taking place. So we developed the ECF program to make 
sure that we check on that during our enrollment process to 
prevent just what you are describing.
    Mr. Carter. So you are pretty confident that that is not 
going to happen?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. We have rules in place. We will monitor it 
over time. I understand what you are saying. You know, we don't 
have infinite resources. We want to reach as many people as 
possible with these----
    Mr. Carter. Sure.
    Ms. Rosenworcel [continuing]. Programs, and that is why we 
have a rule to that effect. But it is something we will 
certainly monitor over time for the reasons you describe.
    Mr. Carter. Good. Commissioner Carr, I wanted to end with 
this. Even before the pandemic, the broadband providers had 
programs to assist low-income customers get or stay connected 
to the internet. Since then these programs have expanded, they 
have improved service, and they have become more widely 
available, which is good.
    Combined with Federal subsidies, many service plans are 
free to consumers, yet we still see people who are not adopting 
these services. Going forward, we need to examine the impact 
these Federal programs like the Affordable Connectivity Program 
and Lifeline have on adoption rates to determine if they can--
if they continue to be necessary. So I hope that you all will 
pay close attention to that, as well.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I will yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes 
Mrs. Dingell for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for having 
this hearing. And I am going to cut to the chase, since we have 
votes.
    This hearing has highlighted that broadband and spectrum 
access remains a necessity to participate in today's economy 
and, as the chairwoman and Commissioners have emphasized, offer 
educational opportunities, medical services, and provide new 
avenues for cutting-edge public safety advancements.
    I want to focus on developments in communications 
technology and its potential uses in roadway safety.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel my questioning has to do with the 
FCC's ongoing 0.9 gigahertz proceeding. In--the Commission's 
initial report and order from November 2020 designated the 
upper 30 megahertz of this band for intelligence transportation 
systems, or ITS. It furthermore stated that the C-V2X was the 
technology that should be utilized for ITS.
    The Commission asked for further comment on implementing C-
V2X and winding down DSCR
    [sic] last spring. We are now one year removed from that 
public comment period and two years removed from the original 
R&O, and I understand much work remains for those State and 
local DoTs and/or automakers who want to deploy this 
potentially lifesaving technology.
    Based on the current record before the Commission, how is 
C-V2X expected to advance automobile safety in this country?
    And most importantly, will you work with those automobile 
stakeholders who want to deploy the C-V2X technology in the 5.9 
gigahertz band?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. The quick answer is yes. We are in 
conversation with them right now. I know that they want early 
access to that 30 megahertz of spectrum, and they have a 
petition before us requesting access. It is my understanding 
they are going to be updating that petition. We are waiting for 
that, and I hope we can proceed.
    That is the technology that is, of course, the successor to 
DSRC, and I think it has lots of potential in that 30 megahertz 
of spectrum. So we want to be able to stay in contact with 
them, and stay in contact with you, and see if we can make that 
happen.
    Mrs. Dingell. This matters. We have delayed it for too 
long.
    What can the FCC do next to aid automobile stakeholders 
interested in deploying C-V2X?
    Can the FCC provide any timeline at this time to enable the 
deployment of C-V2X?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. I think the most important thing at this 
point is that we get that updated petition, we provide them 
with access on a special temporary authority basis, so they can 
do the kind of experimentation necessary, so they can develop 
their systems and we can develop rules. That is my goal to have 
happen as soon as feasible. So, we will continue to work with 
them and you to make sure that that actually takes place.
    Mrs. Dingell. I will commit to working with you and them.
    I want to emphasize that this needs to be a priority for 
the agency. These stakeholders need clarity, and I urge the FCC 
to do all it can to enable the deployment of C-V2X faster. I 
will continue to push to ensure that we are addressing this 
issue with the urgency that it demands.
    Last, what protections are in place to ensure that 
interference from unlicensed devices in the lower 45 megahertz 
will not interfere with ITS's use of the upper 30 megahertz in 
the band?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. I should point out that this is the 
subject of ongoing litigation in the DC Circuit. There are some 
auto interests that have taken the decision from 2020 to court 
to hash this out in front of a judge. So that is ongoing right 
now.
    But I have confidence in the engineering work of the FCC 
that was done before I took over the agency that suggested that 
there is no reason to be concerned for interference. We are 
going to be able to accommodate in this band both auto safety 
interests and unlicensed interests.
    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you. I just want to say it is vital 
that we are developing forward-thinking policy to support the 
rollout of this cutting-edge, lifesaving technology such as 
V22X
    [sic]. I want to work very closely with you, because this 
will save lives on the roads.
    Thank you very much. I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlelady's time has expired. We just have 
two more witnesses, or two more members, and hopefully we can 
maybe get this, so we don't have to recess for just one more 
person.
    Mr. Joyce, you have 5 minutes, but if you don't want to use 
it all, that would be great.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you to my fellow Pennsylvanian, Chairman 
Doyle, and Ranking Member Latta for allowing me to waive onto 
this hearing.
    And congratulations, Chairwoman Rosenworcel, for your new 
position.
    My first question is for Commissioner Carr. Many of us have 
kind of bad habits of signing up for subscription service, 
whether it is Netflix or a free trial online, and then 
forgetting about it. And then a few months later, you know what 
happens? The bill arrives, and you weren't using the 
subscription, and you cancel the bill. When it comes to Federal 
subsidy programs, that bill can continue to increase if 
eligible households eventually move out of their eligibility, 
and yet continue to receive support on an ongoing basis.
    Does the Affordable Connectivity Program have ongoing 
verification processes to continually review and validate 
eligibility?
    Mr. Carr. Yes, thank you, Congressman, for the question.
    Generally, with our programs we have usage requirements and 
other checks that we make. And I can confirm that we have all 
of those right ones in place for ACP, as well.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you. I think that is very important. 
Strengthening those safeguards to re-verify and re-apply for 
the ACP program on a periodic basis does help to prevent waste, 
fraud, and abuse. And I urge the Commission to continue 
utilizing these types of accountability measures in the 
program.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, I have serious concerns about the 
different Federal agencies making funding decisions based on 
different sets of data. That, coupled with the differing grant 
programs, it is really ripe for wasting Federal funds, rather 
than focusing on the truly unserved parts of America. So this 
is going to be kind of a quick question, as the chairman 
requested.
    This is yes or no. Do you agree that the FCC's RDOF program 
is on a path toward successfully narrowing the digital divide 
thus far?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Yes.
    Mr. Joyce. The second question--again, we are going to make 
it quick, yes or no--do you agree that the NTIA should follow a 
similar structure, and not impose open access requirements or 
price regulations and requirements on recipients of their BEAD 
grant program?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. I believe those questions are up to them 
and whatever authority you ultimately provided to them in the 
infrastructure bill.
    Mr. Joyce. I do not support the NTIA imposing open access 
or price regulation as a condition for grant funding. I think 
that opens it up to so many areas of disqualification.
    Now, changing subjects, it is clear that the American 
consumers rely heavily on wireless. And we see it. We see it in 
the use of mobile phones, Wi-Fi and, increasingly, connected 
devices like thermostats and even door locks. With this demand 
for wireless services, how are each of you looking at the need 
for a spectrum strategy that includes a balance of license and 
unlicensed spectrum?
    And first I will ask Commissioner Carr.
    Mr. Carr. Well, thank you. This is--a year ago I put 
forward a spectrum calendar with listed bands. I thought it 
would get done that year, this year, and next year. For 
instance, in that I included 3 to 4, 5 gigahertz, which we have 
done; 2.5 gigahertz, which hopefully we are doing soon; 6 
gigahertz--I think we could look to authorize very low power 
devices, as well as client-to-client device communications. We 
can seek comment on increasing power in 3.5 CBRS, and we could 
take a look at UNII2c and on licensed band and looking at 
whether we can make that more usable. And there are some 
additional bands for this year and beyond that I have also 
listed that I think will help keep us on track.
    Mr. Joyce. Chairwoman Rosenworcel, from your new perch, how 
do you address this?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. We are going to have to work with you in 
Congress to make sure we identify more spectrum that we can 
make available for both licensed and unlicensed purposes.
    The truth is that many of the Federal actors that have 
allocations today are not eager to give it up. And we are going 
to need to work with Congress to make sure that their 
allocations are efficient, and when they have airwaves that 
they can make available for commercial auction or new 
unlicensed use, they do so.
    Mr. Joyce. And we look forward to working with you in those 
regards.
    Commissioner Simington, would you please address this?
    Mr. Simington. Absolutely. Everything that has been said so 
far is correct. We need to continue bringing licensed spectrum 
to market.
    Part of the obstacle in the background of everyone's 
thinking about the question of bringing licensed spectrum to 
market is the conflict that inevitably arises. And so we need 
tools to diffuse those conflicts in advance, which is where I 
think we are trying to go with the receiver NOI.
    As far as unlicensed uses, I would also note that some 
unlicensed uses have proven to be so encumbered that only a 
small portion of the actual unlicensed spectrum that is 
allocated is actually supported by vendors. And I would be 
happy to support that with examples in----
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time has expired. Thank you.
    Is Mrs. Trahan still looking to ask questions?
    Mrs. Trahan. I would love to, if there is time, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Mr. Doyle. OK. You have got 5 minutes, and we have got 1 
minute and 12 seconds until the vote is over. So go for it.
    Mrs. Trahan. Well, thank you, thank you, Chairman Doyle, 
Ranking Member Latta, for allowing me to waive on today to 
discuss a crucial agency.
    The bipartisan infrastructure bill included 65 billion to 
ensure that every American has access to high-speed internet, 
and Massachusetts is slated to receive no less than 100 million 
to help provide broadband coverage to 137,000 people who 
currently lack it.
    The legislation also created the new Affordable 
Connectivity Program, the long-term iteration of the Emergency 
Broadband Benefit. And according to recent data, over 161,000 
Massachusetts residents have enrolled in the program already.
    Congress created the Emergency Connectivity Fund in the 
American Rescue Plan that funds devices and internet service to 
students and teachers and library patrons, and schools and 
libraries in my district in Massachusetts have received about 
seven-and-a-half million dollars from this fund.
    So I just want to thank you all for your leadership on this 
important program. Each of these investments is critical to 
ensuring that no family ever has to sit in a fast food parking 
lot to get online again.
    But the infrastructure law also included a broadband 
nutrition label provision spearheaded by my colleague, 
Congresswoman Craig, and dedicated public interest groups. And 
this provision is vital in helping my constituents understand 
their broadband service speeds, costs, and network management 
in simple, clear terms. It is a great idea, but the label won't 
work if people can't see it. ISPs are very good at hiding fees 
in the fine print, and so we need to make sure they don't hide 
this new label.
    Chairwoman Rosenworcel, it is, first of all, great to see 
you again. I know the Commission is still working to finalize 
those rules, but I think it is critical that these labels be 
displayed in a number of places most often seen by consumers, 
including their monthly bills. Can you just talk briefly about 
why this kind of transparency is so important for consumers, 
and also for competition?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. Yes, I agree. Look, you go into the 
grocery store, you pull boxes of cereal off the shelf, you can 
compare calories and carbohydrates really easily, because they 
have the same nutrition label. That is what we are going for 
here. All of us know that so many of the details get buried in 
the fine print. We want to make it easy for people to compare 
service and make good choices for their families. The goal is 
to make these labels mandatory, so that consumers can come to 
expect them any time they choose to sign up for or purchase 
broadband service.
    Mrs. Trahan. I couldn't agree more. I have been advocating 
for similar measures from tech platforms for terms of service 
labeling. It is clear to me that enforcement is very important 
with this kind of transparency.
    For example, this committee has worked to ensure the FDA 
nutrition label, as you mentioned, is accurate for over 30 
years. And with the new broadband label, consumers are going to 
need an easy way to report problems, and the FCC should be 
prepared to investigate.
    Do you have thoughts on how the FCC can enforce the label 
requirement?
    Ms. Rosenworcel. I think it will provide us with an 
additional tool. If a consumer signs up for service and the 
label says that they get a minimum speed, and they don't get 
that minimum speed, and we start hearing from lots of consumers 
about that, we are going to have an opportunity to enforce and 
take action against them, and hold them to their word. So it 
provides an additional route for enforcement activity going 
forward.
    Mrs. Trahan. Great.
    Mr. Chairman, I appreciate you allowing--squeezing me in at 
the tail end, and I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair requests 
unanimous consent to enter the following records and other 
information into the record: a letter from Leadership 
Conference on Civil and Human Rights; a document from former 
FCC Chair Michael O'Reilly; an op ed from Congressman Crowley; 
an op ed from Neil Freed; a letter from 11 organizations on the 
5.9 gigahertz band; a letter from U.S. Chamber of Commerce; a 
letter to former FCC Chairman Genachowski; and a letter to Hon. 
Gina Raimondo.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    Mr. Doyle. I want to thank our witnesses for their 
participation today.
    I remind members that, pursuant to committee rules, they 
have ten business days to submit additional questions for the 
record to be answered by the witnesses who have appeared. I ask 
the witnesses to respond promptly to any such questions you may 
receive.
    At this time, the committee is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 1:49 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
    [Material submitted for inclusion in the record follows:]
    
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