[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




   FDA USER FEE REAUTHORIZATION: ENSURING SAFE AND EFFECTIVE MEDICAL 
                                DEVICES

=======================================================================

                             HYBRID HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             MARCH 30, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-77
                           
                           
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                           
                           
     [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
                          
                           
                           
                          
                           
                           
                           
    Published for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce

                   govinfo.gov/committee/house-energy
                        energycommerce.house.gov

                                   _______
                                   
                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
                 
60-330 PDF                   WASHINGTON : 2026  


























                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE

                     FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey
                                 Chairman
BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois              CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, Washington
ANNA G. ESHOO, California              Ranking Member
DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado              FRED UPTON, Michigan
MIKE DOYLE, Pennsylvania             MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas
JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois             STEVE SCALISE, Louisiana
G. K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina    ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio
DORIS O. MATSUI, California          BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky
KATHY CASTOR, Florida                DAVID B. McKINLEY, West Virginia
JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland           ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
JERRY McNERNEY, California           H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida
PAUL TONKO, New York                 BILL JOHNSON, Ohio
YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York           BILLY LONG, Missouri
KURT SCHRADER, Oregon                LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana
TONY CARDENAS, California            MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
RAUL RUIZ, California                RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina
SCOTT H. PETERS, California          TIM WALBERG, Michigan
DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan             EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia
MARC A. VEASEY, Texas                JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina
ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire         GARY J. PALMER, Alabama
ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois, Vice       NEAL P. DUNN, Florida
    Chair                            JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah
NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California    DEBBIE LESKO, Arizona
A. DONALD McEACHIN, Virginia         GREG PENCE, Indiana
LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware       DAN CRENSHAW, Texas
DARREN SOTO, Florida                 JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania
TOM O'HALLERAN, Arizona              KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota
KATHLEEN M. RICE, New York
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
KIM SCHRIER, Washington
LORI TRAHAN, Massachusetts
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
                                 ------                                

                           Professional Staff

                   TIFFANY GUARASCIO, Staff Director
                 WAVERLY GORDON, Deputy Staff Director
                  NATE HODSON, Minority Staff Director
                         Subcommittee on Health

                       ANNA G. ESHOO, California
                                Chairwoman
G. K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina    BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky
DORIS O. MATSUI, California            Ranking Member
KATHY CASTOR, Florida                FRED UPTON, Michigan
JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland, Vice     MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas
    Chair                            H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida
KURT SCHRADER, Oregon                BILLY LONG, Missouri
TONY CARDENAS, California            LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana
RAUL RUIZ, California                MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan             RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina
ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire         EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia
ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois             NEAL P. DUNN, Florida
NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California    JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah
LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware       DAN CRENSHAW, Texas
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota               JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania
KIM SCHRIER, Washington              CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, Washington 
LORI TRAHAN, Massachusetts               (ex officio)
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey (ex 
    officio)
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
                             C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hon. Anna G. Eshoo, a Representative in Congress from the State 
  of California, opening statement...............................     2
    Prepared statement...........................................     3
Hon. Brett Guthrie, a Representative in Congress from the 
  Commonwealth of Kentucky, opening statement....................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................     7
Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the 
  State of New Jersey, opening statement.........................    11
    Prepared statement...........................................    13
Hon. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, a Representative in Congress from 
  the State of Washington, opening statement.....................    15
    Prepared statement...........................................    17

                               Witnesses

Jeff Shuren, M.D., Director, Center for Devices and Radiological 
  Health, Food and Drug Administration...........................    21
    Prepared statement...........................................    23
    Answer to submitted questions................................   118
Richard J. Kovacs, M.D., Q.E. and Sally Russell Professor of 
  Medicine, Indiana University School of Medicine, Chief Medical 
  Officer, American College of Cardiology........................    82
    Prepared statement...........................................    84
Mark Leahey, President and CEO, Medical Device Manufacturers 
  Association....................................................    88
    Prepared statement...........................................    90
Janet Trunzo, Senior Executive Vice President, Technology And 
  Regulatory Affairs, Advanced Medical Technology Association....    91
    Prepared statement...........................................    93
Diane Wurzburger, Executive of Regulatory Affairs, GE Healthcare.    99
    Prepared statement...........................................   101

                           Submitted Material

H.R. 7084, the Protecting and Transforming Cyber Health Care Act 
  of 2022, submitted by Ms. Eshoo \1\
H.R. 7192, the Diagnostic Device Advisory Committee Act 2022, 
  submitted by Ms. Eshoo \1\
H.R. --------, the Medical Device User Fee Amendments of 2022, 
  submitted by Ms. Eshoo \1\
Letter of March 25, 2022, from U.S. PIRG, IAMERS, to Mr. Eshoo, 
  et al., submitted by Ms. Eshoo.................................   114

----------
\1\ Legislation has been retained in committee files and also is 
  available at https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/
  ByEvent.aspx?EventID=114541.

 
   FDA USER FEE REAUTHORIZATION: ENSURING SAFE AND EFFECTIVE MEDICAL 
                                DEVICES

                       WEDNESDAY, MARCH 30, 2022

                  House of Representatives,
                            Subcommittee on Health,
                          Committee on Energy and Commerce,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:01 a.m. in 
the John D. Dingell Room, 2123 of the Rayburn House Office 
Building, Hon. Anna Eshoo (chairwoman of the subcommittee), 
presiding.
    Members present: Representatives Eshoo, Matsui, Castor, 
Sarbanes, Welch, Schrader, Cardenas, Ruiz, Dingell, Kuster, 
Kelly, Barragan, Craig, Schrier, Trahan, Fletcher, Pallone (ex 
officio); Guthrie (subcommmittee ranking member), Upton, 
Burgess, Griffith, Bilirakis, Long, Bucshon, Hudson, Carter, 
Dunn, Curtis, Crenshaw, Joyce, and Rodgers (ex officio).
    Staff present: Vincent Amatrudo, FDA Detailee; Jacquelyn 
Bolen, Health Counsel; Waverly Gordon, Deputy Staff Director 
and General Counsel; Tiffany Guarascio, Staff Director; Stephen 
Holland, Senior Health Counsel; Zach Kahan, Deputy Director 
Outreach and Member Service; Mackenzie Kuhl, Press Assistant; 
Una Lee, Chief Health Counsel; Aisling McDonough, Policy 
Coordinator; Meghan Mullon, Policy Analyst; Kaitlyn Peel, 
Digital Director; Caroline Rinker, Press Assistant; Chloe 
Rodriguez, Clerk; Kylea Rogers, Staff Assistant; Andrew 
Souvall, Director of Communications, Outreach, and Member 
Services; Charlton Wilson, Fellow; Caroline Wood, Staff 
Assistant; Hilary Carruthers, Minority Fellow; Alec Aramanda, 
Minority Professional Staff Member, Health; Grace Graham, 
Minority Chief Counsel, Health; Nate Hodson, Minority Staff 
Director; Peter Kielty, Minority General Counsel; Emily King, 
Minority Member Services Director; Clare Paoletta, Minority 
Policy Analyst, Health; Kristin Seum, Minority Counsel, Health; 
Kristen Shatynski, Minority Professional Staff Member, Health; 
and Olivia Shields, Minority Communications Director.
    Ms. Eshoo. The subcommittee on Health will now come to 
order.
    Due to COVID-19, today's hearing is being held remotely, as 
well as in person.
    For members and witnesses taking part remotely, microphones 
will be set on mute to eliminate background noise. Members and 
witnesses, you will need to unmute your microphone when you 
wish to speak. Since we will have some witnesses that appear 
virtually from our next panel, I ask my colleagues in the 
hearing room to mute themselves whenever they are not speaking, 
so we can clearly hear the witnesses' response.
    Since members are participating from different locations at 
today's hearing, recognition of members for questions will be 
in the order of subcommittee seniority.
    Documents for the record should be sent to Meghan Mullon at 
the email address we have provided to your staff, and all--
excuse me, all documents will be entered into the record at the 
conclusion of the hearing.
    The Chair now recognizes herself for 5 minutes for an 
opening statement.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ANNA G. ESHOO, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
             CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

    Every day, Americans rely on safe and effective medical 
devices. From the joy of an ultrasound during pregnancy to the 
distress of a cancer diagnosis via an MRI, medical devices 
treat, diagnosis (sic), and monitor the health of patients.
    When I was working on the original legislation that created 
the Medical Device User Fee Agreement process in 2002, we could 
not have imagined the innovative devices that are on the market 
today. And without the user fees supplementing the FDA for the 
past 20 years, many of these innovations would be stuck in a 
backlog, instead of helping patients.
    A few months ago I visited a hospital in my district, El 
Camino Hospital, which is using radiation technology with AI to 
individually target tumors. This is just one example of the 
hundreds of devices that the FDA has approved or authorized 
since MDUFA was last authorized in 2017.
    With this impressive innovation comes an increasingly 
complex FDA review process. Over the past 20 years, the user 
fee agreements have evolved to make sure that the FDA has the 
resources necessary so that its reviews are timely, 
transparent, and predictable. MDUFA V is the latest evolution. 
The recently announced draft agreement will provide FDA $1.78 
billion over five years in user fees. This is about ten times 
the amount provided in the original 2002 user fee agreement. 
But it--when you compare it with pharmaceutical drugs, they are 
very different.
    With this funding, the FDA's Center for Devices and 
Radiological Health will be able to hire 387 new, full-time 
employees, and also meet rising payroll costs. The user fees 
will also fund successful FDA policies, such as the use of 
Real-World Evidence, the harmonization of international medical 
device regulatory activities, and patient engagement to inform 
the evaluation of products.
    While MDUFA V is a significant increase in user fees from 
medical device makers, it is important to keep in mind that 
user fees cannot and should not relieve Congress from its 
responsibility to fund the FDA in a robust way. That is why I 
was pleased to see President Biden's budget included a $95 
million increase for FDA's medical product safety work.
    Today we will hear from representatives from the FDA, 
private industry, and public health about the negotiated 
Medical Device User Fee Agreement. As the proud mother of 
MDUFA, I look forward to shepherding the agreement through 
reauthorization before the program expires on September 30th.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Eshoo follows:]
 
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Eshoo. The Chair is now pleased to recognize the 
distinguished ranking member of our subcommittee, Mr. Guthrie, 
for his 5 minutes for an opening statement.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BRETT GUTHRIE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
        CONGRESS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH STATE OF KENTUCKY

    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for holding 
this important hearing.
    And today we are building off the work we have done over 
the past several weeks to find additional opportunities to 
foster American biopharmaceutical innovation. The focus of 
today's hearing is to discuss the recently announced Medical 
Device User Fee Agreements, MDUFA. This will be critical to 
continuing to enhance our medical device ecosystem here in the 
United States.
    Like the prescription drug industry, innovators working to 
develop new and innovative medical technologies experience 
significant delays in getting their products reviewed by the 
Food and Drug Administration experts. That is why Congress, 
regulators, and industry all came together to develop a 
solution in the Medical--or MDUFA, Modernization Act of 2002, 
that would streamline the review process and help get these 
devices to patients more quickly. This agreement has been 
authorized by Congress every five years.
    The original MDUFA gave the FDA the necessary tools to hire 
more clinical experts to review device applications. It also 
offered industry the same assurance of being able to hold the 
FDA to higher performance standards. The successes of this 
partnership are clear at the FDA's Center for Devices and 
Radiological Health. CDRH has granted novel technologies four 
times--as many approvals marketing authorization as clearances 
over the past decade, largely resulting from policies made 
possible by past MDUFA authorizations.
    The agreement before us today represents an ambitious 
agenda set by industry and CDRH experts. The goal is to ensure 
FDA is doing everything it can to protect patient safety, while 
also supporting the development of medical device technologies. 
Highlights include authorizing the FDA to collect 1.78 billion 
from industry, and potentially up to 1.9 billion over the next 
five years to bolster CDRH's workforce, and to help get 
products reviewed and approved as quickly and as safely as 
possible.
    Of note is the creation of the new Total Life Cycle 
Advisory Program, which CDRH states will help promote the long-
term sustainability of the Breakthrough Devices Program. I was 
proud to support the creation of the Breakthrough Devices 
Program that was created as part of the bipartisan 21st Century 
Cures Act. In 2021 CDRH granted breakthrough designation to 213 
devices, and there have been over 600 designations made since 
the program's inception. This includes a device that harnesses 
machine learning to help healthcare providers diagnose autism 
spectrum disorder.
    However, I am still frustrated by the Biden 
Administration's actions to undermine the bipartisan-supported 
Trump-era medical coverage of innovation technologies rule that 
would have helped to get breakthrough devices to seniors once 
the breakthrough device is approved by the FDA. This directly 
conflicts with the earnest efforts made by Congress, CDRH, and 
the medical device industry to encourage investments in these 
emerging technologies.
    I encourage CMS to work to reverse this decision, and work 
with the industry as well as their FDA partners to address 
outstanding concerns.
    To that end, I am also continuing to push for the 
codification of the 2018 FDA guidance that permits pre-approval 
information exchanges between product sponsors and payers. 
These information exchanges help get products covered more 
quickly once they are approved by the FDA. My bill, the Pre-
Approval Information Exchange Act, would do just this, and help 
public and private payers to make coverage determinations 
earlier based off real-time healthcare, economic information 
exchanged between entities.
    Additionally, offering needed clarity around the FDA's 2016 
guidance on emerging signals is another important priority of 
mine in the device policy space, and I am working on a solution 
to offer needed regulatory certainty on this issue. Outlining a 
process that affords companies the chance to work with 
regulators on addressing reported adverse health events 
associated with their devices will not only protect patients, 
but will also create regulatory predictability that will 
protect against gaps in care for patients who rely on these 
devices.
    I look forward to working with my colleagues over the next 
several months to re-authorize this important user fee 
agreement that will promote even greater innovation for decades 
to come.
    Thank you, and I appreciate Dr. Shuren for being here, and 
I look forward to having questions, and I will yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Guthrie follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back.
    Colleagues, we are going to break at 9:45 so that members 
can attend Dear Don's funeral, and then we will resume at one 
with the second panel today.
    So we want to hear from Dr. Shuren and get as many 
questions in as possible. But before we go to that, we will go 
to the chairman of the full committee, Mr. Pallone, for his 
opening statement.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK PALLONE, Jr., A REPRESENTATIVE 
            IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY

    Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Chairwoman Eshoo. Today we are 
continuing our work to re-authorize the FDA user fees, which 
provide critical resources for the agency's medical product 
review programs. All of the other user fees expire on September 
30th of this year. Or--I said all of them do. And Congress must 
pass these re-authorizations well ahead of that deadline to 
ensure FDA can continue to operate without interruption.
    At today's hearing we will review the Medical Device User 
Fee Program, also known as MDUFA. And throughout the COVID-19 
pandemic, the FDA's Center for Devices and Radiological Health, 
or CDRH, has been at the forefront of regulating and adapting 
guidance to help develop and authorize diagnostic tests. It has 
also managed the supply chain for critical items like gloves, 
masks, respirators, swabs, and ventilators.
    And the staff at CDRH have been working day and night to 
stay ahead of the virus, and they deserve our recognition and 
appreciation. Their work over the last two years has 
underscored the importance of ensuring that FDA resources are 
in place to make sure we have a safe and effective medical 
device supply chain.
    The draft agreement that we are discussing today between 
FDA and industry will substantially increase funds for CDRH, 
which will lead to a significant increase in staff capacity at 
the agency, as the chairwoman mentioned.
    The performance goals included in the draft agreement will 
also allow for innovation through the creation of the Total 
Product Life Cycle Advisory Program pilot, or the TAP Pilot. 
And this pilot program will allow for earlier interaction 
between FDA and developers, and will facilitate regular 
engagement throughout the medical device review cycle. And this 
will hopefully lead to a sustainable program that builds safety 
and efficacy discussions into the front end of development to 
speed innovation in a responsible way.
    Now, the draft also lays out new transparency measures that 
will ensure funds are being spent efficiently and going to the 
programs authorized by the agreement in the legislation we 
passed. And when I mention transparency, I want to also note 
the importance of the process we are undertaking here in the 
committee today, and the process Congress has laid out for FDA 
and industry to reach the agreement we are now reviewing.
    By statute, as part of the MDUFA reauthorization, FDA is 
mandated to consult with regulated industry, patient, and 
consumer representatives and healthcare professionals, receive 
public comment, and submit recommendations to Congress no later 
than January 15th of this year. This deadline is not a mere 
suggestion. It is actually the law. And the process is 
important, because it allows for FDA, industry, and members of 
the public to examine what has worked well and where review 
programs can be improved through the reauthorization process. 
It also provides Congress with sufficient time to thoroughly 
review these recommendations, and re-authorize the program 
ahead of the funding deadline.
    Now, you know FDA just released this draft commitment 
letter to the committee last Tuesday, which is more than two 
months after the January 15th deadline. FDA has not received 
public comment on the draft, and this is troubling, considering 
there are serious questions about numerous issues, including 
how the agency and industry contemplated the extensions of 
programs due to the sunset in their agreement. And there is 
still a lot to review and more work to be done, and we must act 
quickly. So failure to re-authorize the program on time would 
be catastrophic for patients relying on safe and effective 
medical devices.
    I am just trying to say--I am not trying to beat you up, 
Dr. Shuren, but, I mean, the bottom line is, you know, we get 
this two months later--we are going to meet our deadline 
because we don't want to have the pink slips. But I remember a 
few years ago, when the pink slips went out, and everybody was 
saying, ``Well, Congress, you know, why didn't you do this 
quicker?'' Well, in this case, it is your fault. I mean, I 
don't know how else to put it.
    So we are not going to miss the deadline, though. And I 
appreciate FDA and industry being here today to help us 
understand their proposal. And I also think it is important for 
us to discuss how we can improve the process so this does not 
happen again in the future.
    And we will also review two other common-sense proposals: 
one bill from Representative Schrier would create a new 
advisory panel at FDA to bring an independent public health 
focus to regulatory decisions, evolving diagnostic tests, the 
importance of which are still being seen during the COVID-19 
pandemic; and we have another bill from Dr. Burgess that would 
incorporate cybersecurity into medical device applications, 
which is also critical as medical devices become more 
interconnected and technologically advanced.
    So look forward to the discussion today. And I yield back, 
Madam Chair.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pallone follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair is pleased to recognize the ranking member of our 
committee, Representative Cathy McMorris Rodgers, for your 5 
minutes for an opening statement.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, A 
    REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF WASHINGTON

    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you, Madam Chair. Today this 
subcommittee will hold its third hearing to consider the 
reauthorization of the FDA user fee programs.
    Congress has acted to authorize the Medical Device User Fee 
Amendments, or MDUFA, four times before, and we remain 
committed to reviewing this authority on time and through 
regular order.
    I would like to thank our witnesses for testifying today, 
and would also like to welcome back Dr. Shuren. Dr. Shuren came 
before this subcommittee when we last re-authorized these 
programs in 2017.
    Before we discuss the proposed amendments and the two bills 
for today's hearing, I would like to join in expressing my 
disappointment with the failure of FDA and the regulated 
industry to deliver their proposed agreement to Congress by the 
January 15th statutory deadline. MDUFA negotiations have been 
going on for over a year, and we have had just one week to 
review the proposed amendment language and commitment letter 
before this hearing. This delay hinders Congress's oversight 
responsibilities. Re-authorizing these programs on time is a 
goal shared by all of us on this committee, and failure to do 
so will result in delayed patient access to needed medical 
technologies.
    Further, I have raised serious concerns about the lack of 
transparency throughout this process. In November I wrote to 
then-acting Commissioner Woodcock about the delay in posting 
minutes, meeting minutes from FDA industry negotiations. To 
ensure transparency and progress, documentation of meeting 
outcomes and action items are supposed to be made part of the 
official record, and made publicly available. While this 
posting minutes publicly takes no more than two to three weeks, 
during MDUFA V negotiations we saw delays of more than six 
months. Even today, there are no meeting minutes posted for any 
meetings that took place after June 30th, 2021.
    I know that my colleagues and I are looking forward to 
getting answers today on what took so long for the proposed 
agreement to be delivered to our committee, and how we improve 
this process going forward.
    Now, regarding the proposed MDUFA V agreement, as well as 
two pieces of legislation introduced by Representatives Burgess 
and Schrier, Dr. Burgess's bill ensures the cybersecurity of 
devices is approved or cleared by FDA. Dr. Schrier's advances 
on the real world impact of medical device diagnostics (sic).
    We want to make sure FDA has the resources to keep up with 
cutting-edge medical technology, such as artificial 
intelligence, robotic prosthetics, and facilitate innovation 
and production of the more routine devices we rely on: 
syringes, gloves, gowns. We need to make sure these resources 
are used wisely and improve people's quality of life.
    The promise of American innovation will allow medical 
technology to help keep patients healthier, enable treatment at 
or close to home, and improve timely diagnostic--diagnosis and 
treatment. This reauthorization requires FDA to leverage 
digital health technologies and Real-World Evidence in the 
review and clearance or approval of medical devices where 
appropriate.
    The proposed enhancements also direct significant 
investment in hiring and retaining world-class scientific and 
technical staff. There is no question that the COVID-19 
pandemic severely disrupted business for the FDA to review 
applications and make timely decisions. The Center for Devices 
and Radiological Health has especially had a daunting task. FDA 
has fallen behind on the accountability part of the deal, 
missing three review goals during Fiscal Year 2020 and six 
during Fiscal Year 2021. I hope that FDA will improve going 
forward, and that the hiring commitments and performance goals 
agreed to under MDUFA V will get us back on track.
    I am also encouraged that the commitment letter contains 
enhancements to improve performance, accountability, and 
financial transparency. FDA is committed to publishing an 
annual 5-year financial plan which will include hiring targets 
and a full accounting of where user fee funds are being spent.
    MDUFA V also continues enhancing its Patient Science and 
Enhancement Program, which--excuse me, which will prioritize 
including the voice of patients in the review process.
    The goal of these improvements will improve pre-submission 
communications with innovators, make sure patients are heard, 
and improve overall efficiency, integrity, and effectiveness of 
medical device reviews.
    Re-authorizing MDUFA before September's deadline will allow 
agency operations to continue, and will also enhance patients 
benefit for medical innovation and advancements. This is the 
goal that I know is shared by all of our colleagues.
    I look forward to today's discussion. I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mrs. Rodgers follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentlewoman yields back.
    Pursuant to committee rules, all Members' glorious written 
opening statements will be made part of the record.
    I now would like to--well, he really doesn't need to be 
introduced, but I am going to introduce him anyway. Our witness 
for our first panel, we all know Dr. Jeff Shuren. He is the 
able director of the Center for Devices and Radiological Health 
at the FDA.
    Welcome back to the hearing room, Doctor Shuren. It is 
really wonderful to see you again in person back to the 
subcommittee. We are very happy to have you with us today, and 
we look forward to your testimony.
    You are familiar with the lights, so I don't have to walk 
you through that. But a warm welcome. You have 5 minutes for 
your testimony.


                 STATEMENT OF JEFF SHUREN, M.D.


    Dr. Shuren. It is nice to be back. Chair Eshoo, Ranking 
Member Guthrie, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for 
the opportunity to testify today about the fifth 
reauthorization of MDUFA.
    The investments made in previous MDUFA re-authorizations 
have paid off dividends, with an increasing number of 
innovators bringing their devices to the U.S. first, and a more 
robust pipeline of innovative new devices, which ultimately has 
led to more timely patient access.
    I want you to know that I personally regret that we missed 
the statutory deadline to deliver our recommendations to 
Congress. I and the entire agency take this obligation very 
seriously. I am pleased to report, however, that the long 
deliberations have ultimately produced a strong, thoughtful 
agreement on recommendations to Congress that, if enacted, will 
continue to advance medical device innovation, while 
maintaining the FDA's standards to protect patients.
    CDRH continued to meet and exceed most performance goals 
through the first half of MDUFA IV. However, we missed some 
goals later on. During this time we saw a rise in our workload 
for which we were not fully funded. For example, so far, during 
MDUFA IV, FDA received over 3,000 more pre-submissions than we 
were resourced to review, including more than 1,000 in Fiscal 
Year 2020 alone. And since Fiscal Year 2018, FDA has granted 
more than 600 breakthrough device designations, more than 200 
in the last Fiscal Year alone. Medical devices have and 
continue to be increasingly more complex, and the review of 
their pre-market submissions more resource intensive, while the 
number of submissions we receive annually has increased, as 
well. And we expect these trends to continue.
    Then COVID hit. It pushed us into a continuous all-hands-
on-deck operations in order to facilitate the development and 
availability of pandemic-related medical devices. We have 
received approximately 8,000 emergency use authorization and 
pre-EUA requests, and we are still receiving about 130 of these 
submissions a month. We have granted emergency use of full 
marketing authorization to over 2,200 medical devices for 
COVID-19, including 15 times more EUAs than all other previous 
public health emergencies combined. This has truly been a 
perfect storm, and my center has been battling against it for 
two years.
    Moreover, our efforts to grant emergency use authorizations 
are not covered within the scope of MDUFA, so they don't count 
toward our performance.
    On the other hand, the magnitude of the emergency response 
inevitably led to a backlog, and delayed review times, and we 
fell short on some of our MDUFA goals. I and my center take 
these commitments seriously. We know this has had a great 
impact on companies across the country. This is why we have 
been transparent, communicating about impacts publicly and 
regularly, and we have worked hard to address delays for COVID 
and non-COVID devices through hiring more staff and 
contractors, reallocation of staff, and changes in policy, 
procedure, and practice, with many of my staff burning the 
midnight oil and burning out in the process.
    We greatly appreciate the support from Congress, 
particularly in the form of supplemental funding, and we have 
now turned the corner. CDRH has reduced the backlog of non-
COVID device submissions by 44 percent, and we are targeting to 
have most of the center back to normal operations later this 
year.
    Despite these challenges, during MDUFA IV we authorized 
record numbers of novel devices, over 100 a year during the 
pandemic. The MDUFA V proposal takes important steps to address 
resource gaps that began to show before COVID-19, and to 
support improved performance.
    It also features a new accountability mechanism for add-on 
payments under which FDA would receive additional user fees if 
it meets specified goals. These additional funds come with even 
more ambitious goals for the later years of MDUFA V.
    The agreement includes a new voluntary pilot to provide 
earlier, more frequent, and more strategic engagement with 
sponsors of breakthrough devices, and those included in the 
Safer Technologies Program, incorporating lessons learned from 
the pandemic, where we saw how engaging with sponsors through 
the pre-EUA process to problem-solve and answer their questions 
in real or near real-time was critical for facilitating 
important technologies coming to market quickly and safely.
    The MDUFA V proposal would also support advancement of the 
patient perspective in regulatory decisions, continuation--
expansion of the use of national and international consensus 
standards, leveraging of Real-World Evidence for regulatory 
decisionmaking, and enhanced coordination with international 
regulators to advance global harmonization, among other 
priorities.
    We appreciate Congress's patience and support. Thank you 
again for the opportunity to testify today. I am happy to 
answer your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Shuren follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    
    Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Dr. Shuren. We will now move to 
member questions, and the Chair recognizes herself for 5 
minutes to do just that.
    Dr. Shuren, in your testimony you said you have received 
approximately--did you say 80,000 or 8,000?
    Dr. Shuren. Eight thousand.
    Ms. Eshoo. Eight thousand EUA requests during the pandemic. 
This has, obviously, strained your center's capacity, 
especially since EUAs do not generate user fees.
    Are you still receiving a heavy volume of EUA requests in 
2022, so far?
    Dr. Shuren. Yes, for EUAs, pre-EUAs, it is still about 130 
a month.
    Ms. Eshoo. A hundred and thirty a month. What is your long-
term plan to balance COVID-19, EUA requests, with your 
center's--I guess what I would call your regular workload?
    And how does MDUFA V help address the center's capacity 
gaps? Because they are--it is really jaw dropping, these 
numbers.
    Dr. Shuren. Yes, the numbers are phenomenal, and really, a 
credit to my team for all the hard work. And I appreciate the 
support of Congress in doing so.
    So some of the steps we have taken is to sort of narrow the 
focus on where we put our resources. We are in such a different 
place today as a country than we were at the beginning of the 
pandemic. And I think, over the coming months, really, the goal 
is to start to turn off the spigot on EUAs, that, you know, 
there is enough product out there, and it is now turn and use 
more of our resources on the non-COVID products that are there.
    Ms. Eshoo. In January you issued final guidance to engage 
patients in the design and the conduct of medical device 
clinical studies. Since publishing the guidance, have you seen 
medical device clinical studies include more diverse patients?
    It is an area, on a bipartisan basis here, at our 
subcommittee, a commitment to really reform clinical trials so 
that they are diverse, because they are not today. Tell us how 
you are doing with that.
    Dr. Shuren. Well, too early to tell with the new guidance.
    That said, I want you to know that one of our strategic 
priorities for the center for 2022 to 2025 is advancing health 
equity. At the top of that is increasing the representation of 
diverse populations in clinical trials for devices.
    At the same time, we want to do this responsibly. So one of 
the actions we will take is putting out a framework about when 
that is absolutely critical, and what circumstances, what 
devices, and where that will be helpful to have.
    Ms. Eshoo. You don't have any legally binding standards, 
though, do you?
    Dr. Shuren. We don't.
    Ms. Eshoo. You don't.
    Dr. Shuren. We do need the evidence to support the use in 
intended populations. And quite frankly, if we are going to 
provide high-quality healthcare, then no patient should be left 
behind.
    Ms. Eshoo. In 2021, June 2021, FDA issued draft guidance 
that included what FDA sees as the distinction between 
servicing and re-manufacturing medical devices. Has that draft 
guidance helped clarify the apparent confusion between 
servicing and re-manufacturing, at least amongst the entities 
that perform these activities?
    And does the term ``re-manufacturing'' need further 
clarification in statute, which is, obviously, where we come 
in?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, at this point, because it is draft 
guidance, it is still--we are getting feedback. It is not 
finalized as official policy.
    That said, there is value for providing greater clarity, 
and maybe even doing so through statute with further expansion 
than through guidance.
    When we saw reports come in that there are allegations 
about problems with servicing, most of those turned out to be 
re-manufacturing. And so clarity about what constitutes and 
doesn't constitute re-manufacturing is critically important.
    Ms. Eshoo. OK. The Chair now recognizes the ranking member 
of our subcommittee for his 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Guthrie?
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you, and thank you, Dr. Shuren, for 
being here.
    I will tell you, watching over what happened over the last 
couple of years, I know it has to be absolutely exhausting for 
you, but it also has to be exhilarating. I mean, you are--the 
FDA, in the whole Operation Warp Speed effort, I think, rose to 
the occasion. We have things we have to look at and questions 
we need to ask as we move forward, but absolutely, ensuring 
that we had products out--I know you are on the device side, 
but just the vaccines, having the products and the testing that 
you--out as quickly as it did, I mean, it just--any time you 
have a mission that brings you together like that, exhausting 
as it is, has to be fulfilling, as well. And helping American 
people get through the pandemic that we are still getting over, 
hopefully, or getting--figuring out how to live with it, moving 
forward.
    But--so just a couple of questions on the agreement as you 
were looking--I know a big part of it is the hiring goals, and 
some more money for hiring goals moving forward. And so my 
question is, how does CDRH plan to meet your hiring goals set 
forth in the agreement?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, MDUFA V also provides us with additional 
funding to take advantage of the Cures Authority for hiring 
that was in 21st Century Cures, and I really thank Congressman 
Upton for his leadership in moving that bill forward.
    So that, and I think the greater flexibility that we are 
now offering, in terms of work circumstances with telework and 
remote work, is going to help us recruit. And we have seen 
better recruiting in the past few years than we saw previously.
    But I will put on the table something, if Congress is 
interested to help us, is the ability to have direct hire 
authority, regardless of whether or not someone is on under 
21st Century Cures. So if we find the right person, let's bring 
him in as quickly as possible. And that will help us be 
successful on implementation of, I think, MDUFA, but all of the 
UFAs.
    Mr. Guthrie. Yes, thank you. I think that is the--
throughout our--and we have to figure out how to have hiring 
that is correct and right. I know we put a lot of these in 
place, little things that, in the way past, were political.
    But I can tell you, from my VA, local VA clinics, this 
was--when hospitals are lining up for nurses graduating from 
nursing school, and we have to go through the process we have 
to go through, then it makes it difficult to get people to--I 
am sure you are competing with the same kind of groups. We need 
to look at that, or the proper committee needs to look at that, 
as well.
    So I mentioned earlier about the signaling, merging signal. 
Could you explain how CDRH's emerging signals process works?
    And will you commit to working with me and other members of 
the Committee on ways to address concerns about the 
manufacturer input during this process?
    Dr. Shuren. So we have not only policy that has been 
issued, we have an entire program that is focused on what we 
call signal management.
    So if we get an indication there may be a problem with a 
device--it could be through an adverse event report, a study 
that is published out in the literature--we will then go ahead 
and do an assessment on that. We have a whole process for how 
we do that review, and then make decisions around, if this 
requires more data, is this sort of a real signal or not. And 
then if so, what is the appropriate action to take?
    Part of that includes, in certain circumstances, putting 
information out on what we call an emerging signal, because 
this is really important to get this information out to the 
public. As a part of that process, we generally engage with the 
manufacturers in that signal evaluation process. And then, if 
we are going out with the communication, we give advance notice 
to the manufacturers, and we tell them about the general 
content of the communication, unless there is--it is not 
feasible. There are so many manufacturers--like we did with 
warnings about using masks with metal if you are having an MRI 
scan.
    But those communications do need to be FDA communications. 
They need to be--we need to be independent. If we are back 
sharing it, and then we are going to end up in negotiations 
with companies, and we need to avoid delaying tactics, where 
companies that try to, if you will, preempt us, and put their 
own spin on the science, that will undermine public health. It 
is absolutely critical we have our independence to get 
important information out to doctors and patients so they can 
take appropriate steps.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you. I appreciate that. That is 
something--absolutely.
    Also, could you explain the differences between pre-
submission program and the Total Life Cycle Advisory Program, 
and how you ensure the TAP program doesn't divert resources 
from other important programs? You have about 30 seconds for 
that.
    Dr. Shuren. Yes, so pre-submission is very popular, very 
important. And over half of them are requested by small 
companies, startups. Here, important questions that really take 
more time to answer or provide to us. And then we review if it 
is appropriate. Then, you know, within 70 days we are going to 
provide--or at least five days before meeting--written 
feedback. It is this stage gate approach.
    If you really want to engage in problem solving, what TAP 
does, it says, rather than the stage--questions takes time, 
more questions come back. We work with that developer of 
innovative technology in a fluid manner, trying to answer 
questions as close to real or near real-time as possible, and 
have the capacity to engage in strategizing with the company on 
how to get to yes. Obviously, the data has got to support that 
it is safe and effective.
    But this is to address the challenges with that valley of 
death. We really go from concept to market, go beyond what we 
have in the MDUFA today, which is just focused on pre-market 
review. If we can solve the challenges before you send us a 
submission, we are not talking about saving days, we are 
talking about saving months and years----
    Ms. Eshoo. Years.
    Dr. Shuren [continuing]. And getting to yes more 
efficiently. TAP can be a game changer, and this is what we 
learned from COVID that really works. It is part of the secret 
sauce that got those 2,200 devices out onto the marketplace so 
quickly.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you. I appreciate your work.
    I yield back----
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now 
recognizes the chairman of the full committee, Mr. Pallone, for 
his 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr Pallone. Thank you, Chairwoman Eshoo.
    Dr. Shuren, you know--you could tell from my opening 
statement that I don't want to be--you to send out pink slips 
again. And, you know, my concern, obviously, is, you know, 
people start looking for other jobs, and the process of 
approving medical devices gets delayed. So can you describe 
what would happen to your center at FDA and to the medical 
device supply chain if we enter August or September and 
Congress has not acted? What would this mean for patients, if 
you will?
    Dr. Shuren. And again, my apologies for our being late. I 
know it puts Congress in a very tough bind. But if it is not 
authorized in time, then we have to move forward to issue those 
pink slips, and we start letting people go, and we wind down 
the program.
    The program is absolutely essential for assuring that we 
get safe and effective technology to patients. If we are under-
resourced, it is going to take more time. There will be delays. 
We will start losing the edge we have got now in medical device 
innovation here in the U.S. with more important technologies 
coming here first. We will lose all of that, and we will not be 
well positioned to also protect patients from unsafe products.
    Mr. Pallone. Thank you. And, you know, I don't want to keep 
dwelling on the delay here, but, you know, maybe what we should 
talk about is how we can improve this process going forward.
    So you, obviously, were one of the participants in these 
negotiations with industry. Can you help us understand what 
caused the delay this time, and provide any ideas on how to 
improve the process when it is time to re-authorize again, you 
know, five years from now?
    Dr. Shuren. I have been involved in MDUFA re-authorizations 
since 2005. So, you know, we got a late start, too. And this 
was us and industry both said, ``We are getting hammered with 
COVID. We need more time.''
    One thing Congress could do is maybe, rather than just have 
the date about when you have to come to Congress, have the date 
when we have to sit down and get this started. You know, so we 
have got enough lead time, you know, to get it done. And maybe 
then, you know, think about--we could be a bit more accountable 
publicly if we are going to be late.
    And I appreciate, too, our delay on the meeting minutes. 
That puts you in a tough bind, as well, to make well-informed 
decisions.
    Mr. Pallone. All right, thanks. I wanted to note that, as I 
think has already been discussed by you and the chairwoman, 
that the proposed MDUFA V significantly increases funding above 
what was laid out on MDUFA IV. So could you explain why this 
increase in resources is necessary, how it will help with 
product reviews, and how FDA determined what resources were 
needed this time to ensure the agency is funded over the next 
five years?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, one of the challenges was, you know, as I 
mentioned in my opening statement, is under-resourced in MDUFA 
IV. Look, we make our best estimates on what the costs are 
going to be, but there is no way to really adjust that as we 
move along. And some things are just, you know, out of control.
    But at the same time--so what MDUFA V is going to do, deal 
with those gaps, but give us the ability to further improve our 
performance, which is important. It is going to create that 
pilot. We are going to test drive TAP, and that, to me, is a 
major game changer. But I think we are doing it responsibly. Do 
a pilot. Learn from it. See if it is worth keeping, and go from 
there. And then greater investments to do more work on bringing 
the voice of patients into the picture, we will continue to 
have funding for Real-World Evidence, and then better leverage 
that moving forward, better use of national and international 
consensus standards, and drive toward greater international 
harmonization.
    This is really--I view it as, like, the next frontier, 
where we need to go for a program.
    Mr. Pallone. All right. Thank you.
    And I know we are running out of time, Madam Chair, so I 
will yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back. The chair recognizes 
the ranking member of the full committee for her 5 minutes of 
questions.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    In December, FDA published two draft guidance documents to 
provide the agency's policy for device manufacturers planning 
to transition products granted emergency use authorization 
during the pandemic to regular marketing submissions. These 
guidance State that products currently marketed under an EUA 
would need to submit a pre-market application and change their 
product labeling within 180 days of the end of the public 
health emergency.
    Manufacturers have expressed that this is not sufficient 
time to submit applications, particularly for those that are 
still gathering clinical data. Others raised concerns about the 
burden that updating the label twice is going to raise, once 
during the application review, and then again during the 
approval decision. This is going to be a burden on 
manufacturers.
    I wanted to ask, is FDA taking these concerns into account, 
so as not to make supply chain challenges worse and hurt 
patient access to devices that will continue to be needed, even 
once the public health emergency has ended?
    And then, can FDA even process an influx of applications 
within 180 days, and meet MDUFA goals?
    Dr. Shuren. So we are taking all the feedback we are 
receiving into account.
    And I will mention, you know, during the pandemic we issued 
28 guidances, but most of those guidances were immediately in 
effect because, as a public health emergency, we wanted to move 
quickly. We made the decision that, for transition, it was 
absolutely critical we get public input before we finalize. We 
made an exception in this case, because we wanted to hear from 
manufacturers and others, and we do want to get this right.
    I will say I also encourage manufacturers, don't wait for 
us to tell you at some point in the future you need to come in 
with a pre-market submission. You are out there in the 
marketplace. If you want to stay on the marketplace in the long 
term, get your data, come in the door, and we will--of course, 
if you submit a data for an EUA, we are going to be leveraging 
that in our final decisionmaking, too.
    Also, if you come in the door, remember the product is on 
the market. So it doesn't matter if it takes a little bit 
longer to review a pre-market submission. We are more focused 
right now getting new product on the market. The transition 
devices will be second, but we are not going to disenfranchize 
anyone. No product would come off if something is in the door.
    Mrs. Rodgers. OK, OK. Thank you.
    As I mentioned in my opening statement, I have expressed 
concerns about the lack of transparency throughout the cycle of 
MDUFA and the negotiations. The requirement for FDA to publish 
meeting minutes is a--is in place so that policymakers and the 
public can monitor the status of the user fee negotiations in 
near real-time, not months later, and stay informed about the 
key issues. They aren't optional, and we expect them to be 
published quickly.
    FDA has not published meeting minutes since June. How many 
negotiation meetings have been held since June 30th, 2021?
    Dr. Shuren. I will get back to you with the number. But I 
have to say a lot. So----
    Mrs. Rodgers. Can you estimate how many?
    Dr. Shuren. I am going to say over a dozen.
    Mrs. Rodgers. OK. Would you speak to why the meeting 
minutes were not published on time?
    Dr. Shuren. First of all, I will again apologize for that, 
because we should.
    I have to tell you, negotiations on MDUFA, it is more like 
an international treaty: lots of parties, lots of perspectives. 
And the same happens with the meeting minutes. There is a lot 
of back and forth on them. I don't mean that by way of an 
excuse, but everyone wants to be comfortable with what is in 
there. Folks were so focused on let's get the deal wrapped up. 
And as you know, we went late, and we were all pushing, and we 
wanted to get accord. We felt it was important to get 
consensus, and that meant more discussions to do it. So we put 
the priority with our limited, you know, bandwidth on getting 
the deal done in the meeting minutes. But again, my apologies 
because that does put you all at a disadvantage.
    Mrs. Rodgers. OK. Well, we are missing a lot of information 
because of that. And we--and Congress has made multiple 
requests. Can you speak to how many times FDA and industry met 
in December and January leading up to the January 15th 
statutory deadline?
    Dr. Shuren. Somewhere in January--there were offline 
discussions, not a lot of in-person meetings while other 
information was being gathered and other issues were being 
dealt with. I don't have the exact number, but I will--I can 
get back to you with all of those details.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you. I just want to conclude by 
expressing concerns about a proposal in the President's budget 
that would significantly expand the scope of mandatory device 
supply chain reporting requirements that were just put in place 
for the first time during the pandemic.
    With less than two years since FDA was first given this 
authority, I am unaware of any study or review that has been 
conducted to understand the benefits and the burdens of this 
data collection. I am open to understanding how FDA can better 
utilize its current flexibility authorities to efficiently 
review changes to components or sourcing. But imposing sweeping 
government mandates and more paperwork requirements on 
businesses is only going to disincentivize innovation and 
reduce competition.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentlewoman yields back.
    Dr. Shuren. Could I respond to that? Because I--if it is 
possible?
    Ms. Eshoo. Sure.
    Dr. Shuren. Just to say I appreciate that.
    First off, the authority, that broader authority, as you 
say, already applies for drugs. We are asking for parity on 
that. We have used--and I want to say thank you for the 
authorities in the Cares Act, because we used that during the 
pandemic. Those notifications helped us prevent or mitigate 
shortages with test supplies, and ventilators, surgical masks, 
respirators, dialysis systems, defibrillators, even needles and 
syringes being used for vaccines.
    The problem is shortages occur outside of a public health 
emergency. In fact, for a public health emergency--in COVID it 
started before the public health emergency was declared. So we 
were behind the eight ball because of that. And that hurts our 
frontline workers. It hurts patients. And even during the 
pandemic, we had a shortage of resin because of a winter storm. 
The only reason we got notified is because it happened in a 
pandemic, which helped us prevent large-scale shortages of 
tests. If this was not in the setting of a public health 
emergency, no obligation to tell us, and patients will get 
hurt.
    We know--we have dealt with shortages for years, but we 
have not--we need this authority. We were flying blind without 
it. When the pandemic hit, without that authority, and before 
public health emergency, we had to reach out to about 1,000 
manufacturing facilities over 12 countries, cold calling them. 
And we got maybe responses in about a third, and often 
incomplete responses. And that put people's lives at risk.
    This is something simple to fix. We don't want to be over-
burdensome, but at least parity with the drug program.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Well, this merits a longer discussion. 
Medical devices are different than drugs, and I think we need 
to consider that.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. Before the reforms, the approval by--the 
approvals by FDA were based on the yardstick by which 
pharmaceutical drugs were measured. So, you know, we really 
have made progress.
    Colleagues, we are now going to recess for Congressman Don 
Young's memorial, and we are going to resume at one this 
afternoon when members, of course, will continue to question 
Dr. Shuren, and to host our second panel. So, Dr. Shuren, you 
have time for breakfast and lunch. How's that? And we will see 
you back at one.
    Dr. Shuren. All right, thank you.
    Ms. Eshoo. We will be in recess until then. Thank you, 
everyone.
    [Recess.]
    Ms. Eshoo. The Health Subcommittee will come back to order.
    Thank you again for your patience, Dr. Shuren. And I 
believe--who is next? The Chair recognizes the former chairman 
of the full committee, a great member of this subcommittee, the 
gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Upton.
    Mr. Upton. Well, thank you again, Madam Chair, for holding 
this hearing. And we all regret the loss of our good friend and 
colleague, Don Young, which is why we broke for his private 
service, with many of us there attending.
    Dr. Shuren, I really appreciate your leadership, 
particularly over the last couple of years. You were--for those 
that don't know, you were a major help as we got 21st Century 
Cures done. Not only did you travel around the country, but you 
helped us in a number of roundtables to make sure that we did 
it right. And the proof is in the pudding. And we are very 
pleased with a good number of the results since President Obama 
signed that bill into law.
    I guess I have got, really, two questions. I hope I can get 
through both of them while we are here. I have heard from a 
number of the medical device manufacturers and, as you might 
know--I am sure you are aware--they are very concerned about 
the potential on these new regulations that may be coming out 
as it relates to the surveillance once they are done. They are 
very afraid that, in return for the faster approvals--and they 
did this with the EUA--that it would shorten the time to get 
some of those out. But they are concerned that the hammer may 
be out there for a long time, perhaps afterwards. And I just 
want to get maybe a couple of quick comments from you, and 
maybe just have the opportunity down the road.
    I don't have language, or--but I just wonder if you could 
work with us as we relate it to those potential changes. I know 
that there would always be a comment period, et cetera, but I 
just wonder if you might be able to look at some constructive 
ideas that would alleviate some of the fears that the device 
industry might have as it relates to these. I don't even know 
if there are proposed regs yet. I don't know if it is--if they 
are actually out or not. But if you could just sort of walk us 
through that process, that would be helpful to
    Dr. Shuren. And just to clarify on surveillance, is this in 
terms of the--you had mentioned with EUAs, is this on the 
transition to EUAs?
    Mr. Upton. Yes, the mandatory reporting--the manufacturers 
are experiencing increased demand or having issues with 
components that are life-supporting, life-sustaining, or 
intended for emergency medical care during surgery. These would 
be targeted toward the devices in terms of the reporting of 
issues that they might have after they were approved.
    Dr. Shuren. Yes. So that pertains to, you know, proposed 
legislation that is really in Congress's court that goes back 
to supply chain shortages.
    Mr. Upton. Right.
    Dr. Shuren. And in shortages, we are always talking about 
is there permanent discontinuance of the device, or is there a 
meaningful disruption in the supply, and we are just 
clarifying. One of those circumstances is where the demand 
really goes up, and the manufacturer cannot make, you know, 
sufficient--and there is going to be a real shortage with 
meaningful, meaningful impact.
    We saw that in COVID. You remember, with personal 
protective equipment, the needs for healthcare workers 
skyrocketed, and we had massive shortages of those products. 
And it made a big difference. In fact, the question came up, 
you know, devices are different than drugs.
    I would kind of put to you, ask our healthcare workers how 
important it was to them that they have, like, N95 respirators.
    Mr. Upton. Great.
    Dr. Shuren. Our doctors and nurses. And they didn't have it 
in the beginning of this pandemic. And some of those issues, in 
fact, started before even a public health emergency. So here is 
a case where one of the causes is demand goes up way above 
supply. And it is another example of issues that start before a 
public health emergency and why, too, we don't want to limit it 
to just those circumstances.
    Mr. Upton. But are there some regulations, then, that are 
pending as it relates to the reporting of issues or not?
    Dr. Shuren. I think this is in reference to what we put out 
for our--in legislation. But we always are continuing to 
provide greater clarity on reporting that is in the CARES Act. 
But here we have talked about making sure that, if we are doing 
something in supply chain, let's be clear on the circumstances 
that are important, that are leading to it.
    Mr. Upton. Great. So I may come back with maybe a letter, 
and try to----
    Dr. Shuren. We are happy to have--talk about this, because 
we want to get to the right place. This is a major problem for 
the United States----
    Mr. Upton. OK, so----
    Dr. Shuren [continuing]. And for healthcare.
    Mr. Upton. The last question I want to ask quickly is that 
a common refrain that we are hearing from patient groups is 
that CMS is taking a long time to make payment decisions on new 
drugs once they make it through the approval process at FDA. 
While I know that FDA is part of the payment process decision, 
are there ways that FDA and CMS can better communicate so that, 
once a drug or device is approved, it can make it through the 
payment process more quickly?
    Dr. Shuren. To date, you know, we have a very good working 
relationship with CMS, and there are a number of opportunities. 
For example, we have our parallel review program, the chance 
for a manufacturer to ask to meet with CMS and us in advance to 
kind of get our expectations for what it takes for FDA approval 
and for CMS, you know, coverage determination.
    We are also working through the Medical Device Innovation 
Consortium, and CMS is a part of that. And there is already a 
workstream regarding to reimbursement and things, too, to 
facilitate. And we stand ready to work with our CMS colleagues 
on whatever is helpful to them to sort of streamline that 
pathway from FDA approval to Medicare coverage.
    We know in the U.S. one of the big drivers, either to help 
or to harm innovation, is to have, you know, predictable 
pathways for reimbursement. Certainly, that is a broad 
challenge here in the U.S. and, again, something we are very 
happy to----
    Mr. Upton. We are looking to try and help with the Cures 
2.0 as part of that.
    With that, Madam Chair, I yield back my time.
    Dr. Shuren. Thank you----
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back. That is a--it is a 
huge issue. And I am glad that you are attempting to align and 
have cooperation between the agencies. I don't know what it is 
producing, but it is a constant complaint, and it is a 
legitimate complaint. So thank you for what you are doing, and 
anything that you can--you think that we can get into the 
legislation which would advance this case, I know that you will 
work with us.
    The Chair now has the pleasure of recognizing the gentleman 
from Maryland, Mr. Sarbanes, for 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Sarbanes. Thanks very much, Madam Chair.
    Dr. Shuren, thank you for being here today. I appreciate 
your testimony. Obviously, it is very important as we are 
considering the MDUFA performance goals letter, and Re-
authorizing the Medical Device User Fee Agreement.
    While we have you here, I was interested in your 
perspective on the importance of increasing clinical trial 
diversity, and ensuring that trials for medical devices better 
reflect the patient population that might utilize the device in 
the future. We sometimes don't think about that in this context 
as much as we do in other contexts.
    Can you talk about the importance of enrolling trial 
participants that reflect the intended patient population of a 
device?
    Dr. Shuren. Now, we consider this a critically important 
area. If you want to know if the device works, it is intended 
for a particular population, you have got to go ahead and, you 
know, assess it in that population. We have put this as one of 
our strategic priorities over the next years as part of our 
advancing health equity.
    It is also reflected in the MDUFA V agreement, where there 
are commitments around increasing, for example, participation 
of patients, you know, across broad populations in device 
trials. And that includes leveraging technology as a way to get 
more patients enrolled in clinical studies. If they don't have 
to come out of, for example, their home setting, it will make 
it easier for data collection, and that will make it easier 
across populations who otherwise have been feeling more 
disenfranchized from the ability to participate in clinical 
studies.
    Mr. Sarbanes. Has FDA had the opportunity to kind of pilot 
that in any significant way, and see what the benefits of the 
technology are? Could you describe some of that in a little 
more detail?
    Dr. Shuren. There is already work underway, and we have 
tried to facilitate the use of such technology in the setting 
of COVID, because we knew that it would be more challenging for 
people who otherwise would be enrolled in a clinical study to 
get to a clinical trial site, and so have really--have put out 
guidance on this.
    And there is more that we, as an agency, will be doing in 
this space to, again, facilitate these sort of remote clinical 
trials. And a linchpin for it is technology.
    Mr. Sarbanes. It is another example--we have been seeing 
this across, it seems, every arena, that the pandemic push us 
to new opportunities that we can then seize upon and deploy in 
a more permanent way going forward.
    Talk to me a little bit about the relative responsibility 
with respect to inclusive and representative trials between the 
FDA, on the one hand, and industry on the other.
    Dr. Shuren. Well, industry will come to us--for clinical 
trials that pose a significant risk. We get a submission to be 
able to review in advance, and also companies come to us 
through the pre-submission process to seek our advice.
    One of the things that we think could be helpful here is to 
provide clarity on a framework for those circumstances for 
technology where it is important that a diverse population is 
included in the clinical trial. That could help facilitate 
manufacturers assuring that, if you will, their clinical trial 
is fit for purpose, for the intended use for the technology 
that they wish to get authorized.
    Mr. Sarbanes. Are there things that you think we can be 
doing in Congress to incentivize and encourage greater 
diversity when it comes to the clinical trial side of things?
    Dr. Shuren. I think this is something I really would like 
to take back to the agency. This certainly goes beyond medical 
devices, and I want to make sure that we are speaking with one 
agency voice, since this affects lots of different products.
    Mr. Sarbanes. Well, I appreciate it. I want to thank you 
for your testimony. Obviously, as you can tell, I am interested 
in how we increase the use of digital health technology to spur 
greater trial participation. You have alluded to that being one 
of the goals in MDUFA V, and I certainly appreciate that.
    So we will keep an eye on it. And if you generate some 
interesting data in--as you begin to pilot this, and invite 
industry to bring a perspective to it as well, [inaudible] with 
us, because it may inform our ability to do some things here on 
the policy side.
    Thanks very much, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back. The Chair is pleased 
to recognize the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Griffith, for 
your 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Griffith. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    Doctor, at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic the CDC 
tests for COVID were not accurate. What role did the FDA play 
in the approval of these faulty tests?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, the test itself, the design of the test, 
was fine. And so we authorized that test. But, you know, from 
our review there was an issue around the manufacturer. We 
believe that there may have been contamination that occurred in 
later batches of the test that was produced.
    Mr. Griffith. And will you provide this committee with the 
FDA's after-action analysis and report on the various causes, 
whether it was manufacture or otherwise, of this significant 
failure?
    Dr. Shuren. I am happy to provide you what information we 
can. We did not have an official report of--coming from the 
agency. But I did have the director of our in vitro diagnostics 
office we had sent over to the CDC to facilitate looking into 
this matter. He has many years' history of developing tests, 
both in the laboratory and at commercial manufacturers. And----
    Mr. Griffith. If you could share that with us, I would 
appreciate it.
    Dr. Shuren. I would be happy to.
    Mr. Griffith. Switching gears a little bit, how many 
emergency use authorizations were granted in the last two years 
vis a vis the 2-years prior to that?
    I don't expect you to have that answer here today, but 
could you provide that to the committee, as well?
    Dr. Shuren. Yes. I think, if you are talking about all 
medical devices, I think we are somewhere over 870 EUAs 
granted.
    Mr. Griffith. During the last two years?
    Dr. Shuren. In the last two years.
    Mr. Griffith. OK. If we could just get that----
    Dr. Shuren. We will double----
    Mr. Griffith [continuing]. Comparison of pre-COVID and 
post-COVID, what the use of that was. All right.
    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]
    Mr. Griffith. Digital health is an important component of 
MDUFA, and in the MDUFA commitment letter I am glad the agency 
will put such a strong focus on this important area. But I 
wonder whether device, drug, and biologic centers will operate 
in silos which could hurt digital health innovation because of 
inconsistent regulations.
    What specific actions will the agency take to ensure that 
this does not occur?
    Dr. Shuren. One of the steps we took is to create a digital 
health center of excellence out of the Center for Devices, 
which serves as also a resource and a convener for the rest of 
the agency. And we have already an intra-agency group that 
serves to advise the center and to facilitate coordination 
between the different parts of the agency on cross-cutting 
matters relevant on some of these aspects for digital health.
    Mr. Griffith. All right, I appreciate that.
    It has also--a little bit different, but in the same area, 
it has come to my attention that a significant challenge 
associated with incorporating digital technologies in 
healthcare is distinguishing between a medical device which 
requires FDA approval and a consumer product which falls under 
the FTC's jurisdiction.
    Do you agree that there should be more cooperation between 
these two agencies, as we determine how best to regulate 
devices that can be helpful in ourhealthcare?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, we do have a good working relationship 
with them, and there have been a number of cases with just 
medical--with products more generally, where there has been an 
issue on, you know, which side of the line it sort of falls. 
And we have coordinated with them, such as on cribs, risk of 
strangulation on cribs. And we will continue to do so, because 
that is an important relationship.
    I do think the committee was very helpful in 21st Century 
Cures, for example, on clarifying certain circumstances where 
the software is not a medical device, and so falls on the other 
line. And that clarity then helps, you know, for these 
jurisdictional issues.
    Mr. Griffith. All right, I appreciate that.
    The MDUFA commitment letter also describes several 
activities the FDA plans to undertake to support better 
harmonization among medical technology regulators across the 
globe. What international harmonization efforts are currently 
underway?
    Dr. Shuren. Right now this is all through the International 
Medical Device Regulators Forum. And there is a particular 
focus right now on harmonization pertaining to artificial 
intelligence--biggest focus on machine learning.
    Mr. Griffith. And how do you see this work evolving in the 
future, specifically referencing artificial intelligence and 
the support of that in decisionmaking and in clinical work?
    Dr. Shuren. It has become increasingly more important in 
the work that we do. We have already authorized, you know, over 
300 devices with AI ML capabilities--just 50, I think, you 
know, in the last year.
    So we have a whole action plan that goes through a number 
of steps we are taking to sort of facilitate the development of 
AI technologies, and to ensure they are safe and effective.
    Mr. Griffith. And one of the things we have to work on as 
we work on AI is to make sure that we are using that, and 
helping to bring down healthcare costs, because there are a lot 
of things, if it is not something serious, that we could 
actually use AI, as opposed to actually using one of our 
healthcare providers, who--onsite. So if you combine AI and 
telemedicine, we could do an awful lot to bring down costs and 
bring service to people who may not otherwise have access to 
the medical care that they deserve.
    Dr. Shuren. No, we agree. I will say one of the challenges 
we face is that, you know, the device frameworks, you know, 
that are in place, they are about 45 years old. So they were 
really designed for, literally, my grandmother's technology. 
You know, it is hardware-based, and we are talking about 
software. And it is just not lined up, you know, with the 
innovation cycles that you see.
    And I would personally say I wish I had the flexibility 
that we have in COVID on tailoring the pathway to the 
technology in the least burdensome way, and have that ability 
to do it in peacetime. Not change the U.S. standard of market, 
but have the flexibility to offer it voluntarily, you know, and 
then you pick the traditional route, pick the new route. And, 
you know, if we don't do that in this software area, like with 
artificial intelligence, we are going to kill important 
technology that will make a big difference to patients. That I 
do worry about.
    Mr. Griffith. Let us know what we can do on that.
    I yield back, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes 
the gentlewoman from Michigan, Mrs. Dingell, for your 5 minutes 
of questions.
    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you, Chairwoman Eshoo and Ranking 
Member Guthrie, for having this really important hearing today.
    Since 2002, user fees have supplemented funds appropriated 
to FDA to support timely review of medical device pre-market 
applications, facility registrations, and other activities. 
These funds enable FDA to hire more staff that have the 
necessary subject matter expertise to review the complex data 
that, as a result, applications may be reviewed in a shorter 
period, shorter amount of time, while FDA standards for safety 
and effectiveness--and that matters--are still met.
    For the first time, MDUFA V, FDA, and the industry have 
agreed to an increase in fees for the last three years of the 
new cycle if the goals are met in the first three years, 
beginning in 2023. If FDA meets the initial goals and fees 
increase, the corresponding review goals for FDA in Fiscal Year 
2025 through 2027 will also escalate.
    Additionally, if FDA doesn't meet its hiring goals, 
registration fees would be reduced. This should create 
additional incentives for FDA's Center for Devices to review 
pre-market submissions by the agreed-upon goal dates. But Dr. 
Shuren, I do have some questions.
    Since user fees were first considered decades ago, there 
have always been questions about whether payments by regulated 
industry to the regulating agency create a potential conflict 
of interest. How does the CDRH assure that the fees and the 
goals agreed upon in the MDUFA only impact review times, and 
not review outcomes?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, we do assure, you know, that is baked 
into the agreement. We are making no commitments regarding 
policy decisions. We make no commitments on decisions regarding 
individual products. This is basically the fee for service.
    The other is--you mentioned the add-on payments. And they 
will only kick in for more money. At least we are not talking 
about cutting funds if we have a net performance.
    But the other thing that is sort of assured is that, with 
additional funds that may lead to faster review times, it 
doesn't undermine the quality of the decisions that we make 
because this is a bit of a queuing issue. And so, if we have 
more people, we are able to do things, we have more people to 
spread it out, we can reduce the overall time on a review.
    The other added advantage is that it allows us to bring on 
board more experts, and we have a deeper bench on expertise 
like around digital health--assures that we make, you know, 
well-informed decisions.
    Mrs. Dingell. So do the new performance incentives present 
any risk that speed may sometimes have a negative impact on the 
quality of the pre-market review?
    For example, is it more difficult to identify and explain 
submission deficiencies for a greater number of submissions in 
a shorter period of time?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, I do think, if we are identifying 
deficiencies, then--and we do have enough time to identify them 
if we have the added people for doing the work. Like I said, it 
is a bit of a--it is a queuing issue. And the reason why there 
is a certain timeframe isn't because you take a file and you 
spend 100 percent of your time reviewing it. Our reviewers have 
a stack of files sitting there, and they are looking at one, 
they are moving to the other, and that is why it takes a 
certain amount of time.
    Some of this, if you have more people, they have fewer 
files on their desk, they can spend more time on the file, and 
it takes less time. That is not taking away from their ability 
to identify deficiencies and communicate those.
    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you, because I worry about it.
    Also, can you discuss how the new performance improvement 
adjustment can come about, and is there evidence supporting 
this incentive structure?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, this was discussed as an accountability 
measure for the FDA. In fact, there are a number of things 
baked into MDUFA V to increase the level of accountability on 
the agency, the add-on payments being one of them. This is the 
first time we are doing it in any of the user fee agreements. 
And I do think, you know, we will get experience from this.
    But we felt that this would be a reasonable thing to try in 
MDUFA. And we worked with industry to design it in a way that 
we think can support our being successful.
    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you. Thanks for your response. I look 
forward to discussing these issues further, as well as ways to 
improve post-market surveillance, as my colleagues have 
mentioned, in the weeks and months ahead.
    I yield back, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentlewoman yields back. It is a pleasure to 
recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Bilirakis, for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you, Madam Speaker, I appreciate it 
very much.
    Dr. Shuren, your testimony mentions the popularity of 
Breakthrough Devices Program with significant growth in pre-
submissions for breakthrough-related devices. Can you tell me 
about how this MDUFA agreement expands upon the successes of 
that program, and how the new product Life Cycle pilot will 
help innovators earlier in the development?
    Dr. Shuren. So the funding that we are going to get from 
industry is going to allow us to hold more pre-submission 
meetings within the specified timeframes. And that is an 
advantage to anybody who takes advantage of that program. And 
it is very popular, and that is why we have seen, you know, the 
number of requests continue to go up, because manufacturers 
find it very helpful to have those meetings.
    TAP moves away from that sort of stage gate approach and 
longer time for meetings, trying to make this a much more fluid 
interaction with the innovators of very important technologies 
like breakthrough devices, to try to--and also give us the 
capacity to not just give feedback, but----
    Mr. Bilirakis. [Inaudible] asking questions----
    [Pause.]
    Dr. Shuren. To also problem-solve with the developers. So 
the goal here is let's deal with not just the issues around 
pre-market review, shorten that timeframe, but focus on what is 
even more impactful, what leads up to the pre-market 
submission. And if we can work with developers in more real 
time there and problem-solve, we shorten that time from, 
really, concept to pre-market submission. And if all things 
look good in a pre-market submission, we are actually in a 
position to maybe even review it more quickly because there 
aren't issues, we have dealt with them beforehand.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you, Doctor. I appreciate it. Another 
question for you. I want to ask you about the use of both 
unique device identification, UDI, numbers and the national 
drug codes on certain over-the-counter medical devices for 
reimbursement purposes.
    This impacts, like, again, the items like the test strips, 
needles, and syringes, which are critically important to be--
again, to help patients manage chronic conditions, so very 
important.
    For years, FDA has exercised enforcement discretion to 
allow both numbers on the label--both numbers on the label. 
Since the UDI number cannot currently be used for reimbursement 
purposes, I think it is time to find a permanent solution. I 
believe you probably agree with me. For example, FDA could 
allow both numbers to remain on the label permanently, or until 
such time that the reimbursement systems support using the UDI 
number.
    Will you work with the committee to find a permanent 
solution?
    If not, are you planning to at least retain enforcement 
discretion to reduce uncertainty in the industry, and keep 
patient access to these OTC devices?
    So if you could answer that for me, I would appreciate it, 
Doctor.
    Dr. Shuren. We have had outreach regarding UDI and the NDC 
code. Of course, there has been some talk about changes in the 
NDC code, and the implications there. And so we are looking at, 
you know, opportunities to assure we do not disrupt the 
marketplace, as you have raised, you know, one of them being 
continued enforcement discretion.
    That said, we would be very happy to have conversations on, 
you know, what is the--what really is the right solution at the 
end of the day.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Please, please. Let's followup on that. 
Thank you, Doctor.
    Thank you, Madam Chair. I will yield.
    Ms. Eshoo. Good to see you, Gus, real close to the camera. 
Nice glasses.
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Eshoo. The Chair now recognizes the gentlewoman from 
California, Ms. Matsui, for your 5 minutes of questions.
    Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank 
you, Dr. Shuren, and, ultimately, the industrial witnesses, for 
being here today, as well.
    When the COVID-19 pandemic began, FDA was able to utilize 
and fine-tune the emergency use authorization process to 
authorize over 100 different diagnostic tests by the summer of 
2020. I commend the agency for their work in this area. 
However, I understand these tests with different technologies 
or platforms have been validated in a variety of ways and 
varying levels of accuracy.
    Of course, hindsight is 2020, but it seems that in the 
future there may be a more effective and efficient way to 
develop and utilize accurate diagnostic tests against a highly 
infectious virus. To that end, along with MDUFA, the MDUFA 
agreement, today we are discussing the Diagnostic Device 
Advisory Committee Act, legislation that will establish a panel 
of experts on diagnostic devices at FDA.
    Dr. Shuren, what lessons has FDA learned from COVID-19, in 
terms of development, validation, and use of diagnostic testing 
as part of the coordinated public health response to a 
pandemic? Dr. Shuren?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, thank you for the question. Let me 
mention maybe three things, because, quite frankly, to date we 
have issued about--a little over, I think, 450 authorizations 
for tests and self-collection kits. And we should never be in 
that position again.
    If you want to solve it, pre-position manufacturers of 
tests in advance of the public health emergency. Have contracts 
with them, so that when they are asked, they are set to do it. 
And you do it with manufacturers who make these kind of 
technologies, and they can make a lot of it very quickly. That 
is what South Korea did. They even had two companies who 
started to make tests before they even got asked.
    Second, de-risk the enterprise. You know, we did this for 
vaccines. We pumped all this money in to take the risk off of 
production. You knew you weren't going to get reimbursed. That 
didn't happen, you know, with diagnostics. And so you had 
manufacturers who are, ``I don't know if there is a 
marketplace,'' and they were skittish about going into it. We 
had to convince some of them to even make tests. So what you do 
is you have guaranteed minimum purchasing agreements if you get 
authorized, and guaranteed reimbursement. South Korea did that, 
as well.
    Third, I would say, we found that, rather than having the 
companies validate their tests or do all of it, have it done 
independent of them. You know, because, in the beginning, 
conserve your resources for the material you need to validate. 
And you can assure it is done right and it is done quickly. We 
wound up doing that for antibody tests, and now for over-the-
counter antigen tests. South Korea had that set up with their 
CDC. And so, if there is funding to go do that, the country 
could be able to make these decisions also a lot faster.
    Ms. Matsui. Could I ask you----
    Dr. Shuren. So a few developers, large numbers, quick 
decisions.
    Ms. Matsui. Well, could I ask you, could the agency utilize 
a panel of experts on diagnostic devices to assist in future 
public health crises?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, expert--outside expert, you know, input 
is, you know, always helpful, and we look for those 
opportunities to bring them involved. And so this is something 
we would be very happy to have conversations about regarding 
the proposal, and work with all of you.
    Ms. Matsui. OK. The CARES Act of 2020 sought to prevent 
shortages by requiring device manufacturers to notify FDA about 
any discontinuances and interruptions in the production of 
devices critical to public health emergency.
    Dr. Shuren, has this notification from device manufacturer 
has been useful to the FDA during the COVID-19 emergency?
    Dr. Shuren. It has been exceptionally helpful. And again, 
thank you to Congress for those authorities.
    We have been able to prevent or minimize a variety of 
different shortages from--you mentioned test supplies--a number 
of personal protective equipment, defibrillators, dialysis 
systems, really, across the board. And again, those situations 
can arise both just before the public health emergency is 
declared, as we found with COVID, and from other causes. And if 
we are not well positioned to deal with that, we are going to 
have important shortages that aren't resolved.
    A quick example, outside of a public health emergency, we 
had facilities using ethylene oxide to sterilize medical 
devices. In fact, a little over 50 percent of devices that 
require sterilization use ETO. When those facilities were 
closed, we had no window as to whether shortages were going to 
be caused. A few companies told us, many did not. We had to 
manually go back in our systems, try to identify which products 
were being sterilized there, and see if there was going to be a 
shortage. In fact, we got complaints, once a shortage happened, 
from the users because we never heard from a company. And this 
is all because there was no requirement for a notification. It 
puts--it really puts people at risk.
    And what does it matter, the cause on the shortage? 
Because, at the end of the day, patients don't care the cause 
of the shortage. They just care they didn't get the medical 
device they needed that may be saving their life. And the 
doctors, nurses, other healthcare workers care that they could 
not provide the necessary treatment to patients. And as a 
doctor, I find that----
    Ms. Matsui. Absolutely, Dr. Shuren.
    Dr. Shuren [continuing]. You know, difficult to swallow.
    Ms. Matsui. I have run out of time. I really can't--so I 
yield back. Thank you.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentlewoman yields back. It is a pleasure to 
recognize the gentleman from Utah, Mr. Curtis, for your 5 
minutes of questions.
    Mr. Curtis. Thank you, Madam Chair. It is great to be here 
with you, Mr. Ranking Member. It is a great----
    Ms. Eshoo. Great to be with you. Thank you.
    Mr. Curtis. Dr. Shuren, clearly, many of my colleagues are 
familiar with you. This is my first hearing with you, and it is 
a delight to be here.
    I am really excited to talk about this portion, because 
Utah really excels. As a matter of fact, we have the fastest-
growing life sciences community in the Nation, BioHive, and I 
love to brag about these companies. The first artificial kidney 
came from Utah, and perhaps many in this room remember the 
Jarvik heart that came from Utah. Merit Medical is a Utah born 
and bred company. It was founded on the design of a 
polycarbonate coronary control syringe designed to replace 
dangerous glass syringes. Merit Medical was once a small 
company, and really the heart blood of my district are these 
small and medium-sized companies.
    But I also feel like--that sometimes we are the hardest on 
these small and medium-sized companies. And I think my first 
question to you, Doctor, is it appears that they are 
disadvantaged, compared to some of these larger corporations 
who can weather longer time approvals, and they tend to have 
far less capital and lack the established relationships that 
the bigger companies have.
    What can be done to level this playing field, and help 
these startup companies who are so critical later on, right, as 
they grow and become more important? Any ideas on leveling this 
playing field?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, I have to tell you, and so much 
innovation comes from these, you know, small companies. And 
they do not have the resources also for the help of what they 
need to do to figure out--to actually get to the marketplace.
    That is one of the reasons we had proposed this TAP pilot, 
is to help. And the big focus is because most of these 
innovative technologies coming through with the breakthrough 
device designation are these small companies, and let's be 
there to help them. If you will address the questions that they 
are finding challenges with, and they don't have the outside--
you know, the big companies have so many experts, maybe it is 
less helpful to them. But the small companies, in particular, 
need that.
    And in fact, the person who heads this up, I hired a year 
ago, is my deputy center director for science. He was a venture 
capitalist for three decades. He started a bunch of small 
companies. He gets it. And he came to the FDA specifically to 
do just what you are asking for. How do we help, you know, 
these companies deal with these issues and get through that 
valley of death, if you will, and safe and effective to the 
marketplace.
    Mr. Curtis. Yes, and I just really need to emphasize how 
much more difficult the process is the smaller you are. So 
thank you for addressing that.
    We have been discussing for months the importance of FDA 
keeping pace with industry and the role of these agreements and 
the FDA working effectively and efficiently. It has been 
brought up a number of times today, these negotiations are 
running two months behind PDUFA, GDUFA, and BsUFA, which were 
submitted to Congress in January. It is troubling to me that 
this agreement was delivered to Congress well past the 
statutory deadline, impacting our ability to ensure that they 
are authorized on time.
    We have also discussed at length the many instances we are 
finding that COVID-19 created problems and concerns that we are 
seeing and experiencing in our healthcare system. Over many of 
these are things that were there before the pandemic. COVID-19 
highlighted these existing problems, making them things we 
cannot and should not ignore. I don't think that we should be 
using COVID-19 as an excuse, a shield the hide behind, instead 
of addressing root causes. It was a factor, and we recognized 
the initial delay it created. Yet you spoke earlier about 
concern over pink slips going out, and I share those same 
concerns.
    It is my understanding that MDUFA initially--meeting was 
delayed by COVID from March 2020 until October 2020, but PDUFA 
and GDUFA and the initial public meetings in July 2020. Why did 
it take MDUFA--why didn't it move forward as promptly as the 
others?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, COVID hit the medical device industry, 
and it hit us very, very hard. And so we mutually felt we 
needed more time to get started.
    And then there were a lot of issues, you know, ultimately 
to work through. And there is--the medical device industry is 
very heterogeneous, and it has very diverse opinions, and that 
can take time to work through.
    Regardless, we should have had that to you on time. And 
that is our fault, ours collectively, and we take 
responsibility for that.
    Mr. Curtis. You have been very good in taking 
responsibility. But I want to point out that BsUFA had an 
initial meeting in November after MDUFA, and they still made 
their deadline on time.
    Dr. Shuren, there are many Utah medical device industry 
stakeholders that have vocalized concerns to me over 
communication breakdowns between them and FDA. What measures 
can the FDA put in place to ensure this communication is 
better?
    Often when I hear from the complaints, it is communication 
more than anything. What can my office do in working with you 
in facilitating this? We hesitate, right, to step in to the 
middle of this when we hear from them, but we would just love 
your advice on, like, how we help these companies in a way that 
helps you and is not counterproductive.
    Dr. Shuren. Well, if they feel that they are not getting, 
you know, the interactions are supposed to, they are not 
getting the answers they are supposed to, they are identifying 
issues with our program, talk to us. And quite frankly, you can 
send them directly to me.
    Mr. Curtis. And Doctor--I didn't realize we are out of 
time, Madam Chair--I would love to continue that dialog with 
you to figure out how to better coordinate with them.
    And I yield my time.
    Ms. Eshoo. You know, there is something that hasn't been 
mentioned in this relative to timing, and meeting deadlines, 
and all of that. And it is one aspect. It is understandable, 
but I think it should be stated, that there was a--you know, 
some real schisms between the very large advocacy or--you know, 
for large medical device companies and the small companies. And 
they did not see eye to eye. It is not a surprise, because each 
one has its own--you know, its own self interest. But that took 
time, as well.
    So everything is not--doesn't rest with the agency. They 
have to negotiate with people. And if they are not coming to an 
agreement within the industry itself, that slows things down, 
as well. So I think it is fair just to put it out there. We are 
all thrilled. I was thrilled when I found out that they, you 
know, came to an agreement so that everything could move along, 
but that was a part of this.
    And as you pointed out, the smaller companies have--they 
may be small, but they want their voices heard. So bravo to 
them.
    OK, it is a pleasure to recognize the gentlewoman from 
Illinois, Ms. Kelly, for your 5 minutes of questions.
    Ms. Kelly. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member 
Guthrie, for holding this hearing on the FDA user fee 
authorizations for medical devices.
    According to the newly released MDUFA performance goals and 
procedures, the FDA is committed to hiring 200 new employees in 
the coming five years. The FDA Diversity and Inclusion 
Workforce Strategic Plan of 2018 through 2021 outlines FDA's 
commitment to, and I quote, ``cultivate and promote a diverse, 
inclusive culture'' in their workplace to reflect the diverse 
backgrounds of those served by the agency's work.
    Doctor, what metrics will FDA use to ensure that there is 
adequate representation of racially and ethnically diverse 
employees across all levels of positions in these FDA new 
hires?
    Dr. Shuren. So we collect that information already as to 
what the representation looks like.
    But I will tell you, we have already just issued for our 
center our diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging roadmap 
on steps we are taking that includes hiring, addressing that, 
and it is part of the strategic priorities. I mentioned one: 
advancing health equity. The second is on, you know, a modern, 
diverse workforce that, if we are going to represent a diverse 
country, we need to reflect that diversity in our center. And 
that is a commitment from us, and there are already 
workstreams.
    And so that includes our outreach for hiring in the first 
place in different places, so that, again, we can bring that 
sort of talent, diverse talent, into the center.
    Ms. Kelly. Thank you so much, and great to hear.
    You discussed the importance of patient voices in the 
development of medical devices. How can patient preference 
information, PPI, and patient-reported outcomes, PROs, and 
patient-generated health data be leveraged to ensure clinical 
care is culturally relevant for racially and ethnically diverse 
individuals?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, for example, for patient-generated, you 
know, health information, here is a great opportunity where 
using technology--you know, technology is much easier to push 
out into settings where people are living their life. And so 
those who may have a hard time getting to a clinical trial site 
or, you know what, they have some discomfort of doing that, any 
number of reasons, if instead they can provide that information 
in the comfort of their home, at work can make it easier for 
individuals who don't have that same access. So we think that 
is a very important route.
    You deal with patient preference information--I will just 
mention if you have intended populations, you want to make sure 
that is represented too in the patients in whom you conduct 
that study. Because we see the preferences of patients are not 
uniform at all. They kind of stratify on a variety of factors.
    Ms. Kelly. OK. The MDUFA agreement outlines the use of 
patient input to inform clinical study design to increase 
recruitment and retention of a diverse clinical sample. From a 
clinical and device efficacy perspective, why is it important 
for clinical trials to have racially and ethnically diverse 
participants?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, it is important that, if you are going to 
use a device in an intended population, that you know it is 
going to work in that population. And we have seen, you know, 
plenty of instances where there may be a difference in how that 
technology works. That may be due to a variety--it may be race, 
it may be gender, or any number of things. And so you want to 
make sure you have looked at it in those appropriate 
circumstances so you know it works in the intended population.
    The other is, even if your intended population is small, we 
have got to be thinking about, if that technology could add 
value in other populations, we should be looking at that so 
that we don't have devices simply made for certain segments of 
the U.S. population. We ultimately have high-quality healthcare 
for all.
    Ms. Kelly. Thank you. And that is why I have been working 
with my colleagues on the DEPICT Act and the NIH Clinical Trial 
Diversity Act that would ensure diversity in clinical trials.
    Thank you so much for your patience, and thank you for 
being here.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentlewoman yields back. The Chair is 
pleased to recognize one of the wonderful doctors we have on 
our subcommittee, Dr. Bucshon from Indiana, for your 5 minutes 
of questions.
    Mr. Bucshon. Thanks, Dr. Shuren. I would like to talk to 
you today about a topic that isn't included in today's hearing, 
but that I thought maybe ought to be, and that is diagnostic 
testing reform, and specifically the VALID Act, which I have 
been working on, which--you have also been working on this 
issue, I know, for many years.
    I was driven to start working on diagnostic testing reform 
based on my experience as a doctor before coming to Congress. 
Health care providers and patients routinely use and 
increasingly rely on diagnostic tests to make difficult 
decisions about the best course of care and treatment. 
Unfortunately, we continue to see examples of some tests that 
don't meet the level of analytical and clinical accuracy that 
are needed to make reliable medical decisions, causing some 
patients to go through with life-changing procedures that may 
not have been necessary.
    This is why I believe Congress must provide certainty, and 
that is why we are trying to accomplish what we are trying to 
accomplish through the bipartisan and bicameral VALID Act, 
which I have been working on with my friend, Representative 
Diana DeGette, in the House for about five years. We are 
working to provide certainty for patients that the results of 
their tests are clinically accurate, and provide certainty for 
doctors that the tests they are administering and making 
healthcare decisions based on are accurate.
    And last, we want to provide certainty for test developers 
and labs that the regulatory framework won't suddenly change, 
and that they will have a clear understanding of what is 
expected from them within the risk-based framework.
    I would also like to note that the sponsors have been 
mindful throughout this process to make sure we are balancing 
patient safety while promoting innovation. For example, VALID 
provides certain flexibilities to help facilitate development 
and support innovation for diagnostic tests for rare patient 
populations, all while keeping in place high standards for 
patient safety. This is instrumental as we continue to move 
toward the future of----
    [Audio malfunction.]
    Mr. Bucshon [continuing]. Will enable physicians to provide 
more individualized patient care to discover a cure and treat 
diseases that were previously unknown and untreatable, which is 
why I am somewhat concerned that the committee is seemingly 
ignoring the issue and the legislation all together. I have 
repeatedly called for hearings on VALID so, as a committee, we 
can better understand the issue and the legislation needed to 
promote innovation and provide clinical and analytical 
certainty.
    Therefore, I would ask the Chair of the--Eshoo and Chairman 
Pallone to work with me in the coming weeks, and with 
Congresswoman DeGette, to have a hearing on VALID, the VALID 
Act, so that Congress can help better serve patients, as I 
truly believe the time for Congress to clarify the rules of the 
road for diagnostic testing is now.
    So, Dr. Shuren, it is my understanding that the FDA 
currently does not have a process tailored specifically to 
diagnostic test review. And rather, the FDA uses the existing 
medical device process for diagnostic testing review, even 
though the two are quite uniquely different. Is that true? Is 
that accurate?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, the pathway we have for in vitro 
diagnostics is different for other devices. I mean, the law is 
very clear that IVDs, regardless of who makes them, are called 
medical devices, but how we regulate them is different, and we 
really tailor that to that kind of technology.
    Mr. Bucshon. OK. Does this--so you wouldn't say this 
process limits your ability to validate that all diagnostic 
tests out there today are analytically and clinically accurate?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, the answer is no. We have had this policy 
of enforcement discretion for--since the start of the program 
for tests made by laboratories. And at the time that made 
sense. They are low risk----
    Mr. Bucshon. Right.
    Dr. Shuren [continuing]. Locally, but they are far more 
complex, riskier. And we have seen, over the years, you know, 
problematic tests from laboratories to market.
    At the same time, though, those LDTs play a critically 
important role in healthcare. And, as you note, increasingly, 
they and tests made by commercial manufacturers are important 
for making clinical decisions. And we have to assure, 
ultimately, that they work. Those assurances are in place if it 
is made by a commercial manufacturer, then not in place if they 
are made by a laboratory.
    And so having a legislative framework that clarifies an 
overarching approach to assure that all developers, whether 
they are commercial manufacturers or laboratories, are working 
with FDA and all of us acting consistently under a modern 
framework--you know, I mentioned the frameworks are years old. 
It is time for an upgrade. This is a time, really, to do it. 
And that could have a big impact on public health, but done in 
a way that is protecting patients, but driving--you know, 
supporting that innovation.
    And I, you know, thank you and Representative DeGette on 
your leadership on trying to push this forward. We do think the 
time is right. We have publicly stated for years we would--we 
were holding off on administrative action because we thought a 
legislative solution was really the best way to go.
    Mr. Bucshon. Thank you for that response. I couldn't agree 
more.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes 
the gentleman from Vermont, Mr. Welch, for your 5 minutes of 
questions.
    Voice. Oh, sorry, let's go to Cardenas.
    Ms. Eshoo. Oh, I am sorry. Who is it?
    Voice. Mr. Cardenas.
    Ms. Eshoo. Oh, OK. The gentleman from California, Mr. 
Cardenas, is recognized for your 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Cardenas. Thank you very much. I appreciate this 
opportunity for us to discuss this important issue, Madam 
Chairwoman, and also Ranking Member Guthrie.
    I appreciate you, Dr. Shuren, for joining us to discuss 
what we should be doing, and continue to do for the American 
people. Dr. Shuren, once again, thank you. And obviously, it is 
critical that the devices we bring to market are safe, 
effective, and work for everyone.
    It is one of my top priorities to ensure that our approval 
process at the Federal level includes diverse perspectives, and 
that medical therapies and devices are tested in trials that 
include demographics that mirror the Nation as broad as we are 
as a Nation. How will FDA incorporate the perspectives of 
patients and stakeholders from diverse backgrounds?
    Dr. Shuren. One of the commitments I will highlight under 
MDUFA V is to expand exactly that: patient perspectives in the 
design, conduct of clinical trials, as well as to facilitate 
participation.
    So one of those approaches is really using technology as a 
way for patients to participate in clinical studies without 
having to keep going to clinical trial sites could facilitate 
more patients participating, particularly those who have less 
access to the healthcare system.
    Mr. Cardenas. Well, less access to the healthcare system, 
sometimes that comes from a lack of access to transportation, a 
lack of access to technology, et cetera. So what you are saying 
is, by removing some of those daily barriers, we are hopefully 
going to be looking at more diverse input, which means a better 
output.
    Dr. Shuren. That is correct.
    I mean, another step is, in designing studies and looking 
for patients, work directly with those centers that are in the 
communities where you are trying to recruit. It is very 
important to have that kind of partnership.
    Also, it can drive a greater participation from diverse 
populations. You have got to go to where people are----
    Mr. Cardenas. OK.
    Dr. Shuren [continuing]. And meet them----
    Mr. Cardenas. Thank you, and I think that----
    Dr. Shuren [continuing]. As opposed to asking them to meet 
ours.
    Mr. Cardenas. And I think what you just described not only 
is diversity in more ways than one, it is also rural, as well. 
So thank you.
    I also recognize that it is critical to ensure that we are 
expediting the time it takes to approve devices without 
sacrificing a review that will determine safety and efficacy. 
What steps will FDA take to ensure patients will not be harmed 
by devices that have been approved using more expedited 
processes?
    And how do you, you know, work with and--with these 
concerns?
    Dr. Shuren. So any of the times we reach an accord with 
industry, we are never doing it where we believe it would ever 
sacrifice the quality of our decisions, and then put at risk 
our authorizing an otherwise unsafe device because of it.
    And we believe the extra resources--will it allow us to 
meet the commitments that we have laid out in the commitment 
letter in a responsible way? We have more people. It means that 
we have more folks with fewer files on their desk. They can 
move through it more quickly. But it does not compromise the 
quality of that review. If anything, by expanding our expertise 
in the center, we may have more experts to help out, 
particularly things like in digital health, bringing--and that 
is one of our commitments. Bringing on more expertise into the 
center can be helpful so we have better-informed decisions, but 
we can do it in a more timely manner.
    Mr. Cardenas. With higher user fee collection, how may that 
affect diversity in clinical trials?
    And you just mentioned having more experts. I am sure with 
more and better funding, we can actually have higher and have 
better and more experts to do the job. So how does the funding 
and allocation affect that?
    Dr. Shuren. The funding also expands our patient engagement 
program, the people who are working directly with patient 
groups and working with communities. And part of that mandate 
under MDUFA V is we will be using some of those additional 
resources to facilitate a greater participation by diverse 
populations in clinical studies.
    Mr. Cardenas. OK, thank you. I appreciate you sharing your 
insights and thoughts. And once again, thank you for the work 
that you do.
    It is imperative that we ensure timely access to innovative 
devices, while still confirming that they are going to work as 
intended, without undue risk to the users.
    And once again, if the information coming in is more 
diverse, then we stand a greater chance that efficacy will work 
in all communities----
    Voice. That is fine.
    Mr. Cardenas [continuing]. Not just some.
    And with that, my time looks to be expiring. I yield back. 
Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
    Ms. Eshoo. I thank the gentleman, and he yields back. It is 
a pleasure to recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania, 
another one of our doctors on the committee, distinguished 
physicians, Dr. Joyce.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Madam Chair Eshoo, for yielding, and 
for convening this hearing.
    The approval of new, cutting-edge medical devices and 
safely getting innovation into the hands of patients and 
physicians is critical to improving health outcomes in the 
United States.
    To that end, Dr. Shuren, how can the FDA and CMS work 
together better and earlier to ensure that beneficiaries of 
Medicare do not face additional barriers to coverage once 
that--the FDA approves or clears an innovative and lifesaving 
medical device?
    Dr. Shuren. Currently, both FDA and CMS are members of the 
Medical Device Innovation Consortium. And about a year ago a 
workstream was started that is focused on health economics and 
value that really is on the reimbursement side of the house, 
and what steps might be able to responsibly streamline that 
pathway, like including the voice of patients in 
decisionmaking.
    We also were engaged in discussions with them on MCIT, and 
certainly stand ready to facilitate discussions too on whatever 
is helpful to them on establishing predictable pathways for 
reimbursement. I mean, we are not insurers. We can't stand in 
their place, but we all--have always been there to facilitate 
as best we can.
    Mr. Joyce. Would it be helpful for CMS to communicate with 
the FDA at early stages of development the important issues 
that might be addressed in clinical trials to help facilitate 
timely Medicare coverage upon market entry?
    Dr. Shuren. We do think the voice from CMS early on can be 
very helpful. We offer that in the parallel review pathway, 
which is voluntary, you know, for companies who may qualify.
    I will say a challenge for CMS--so I am going to tin cup 
for my sister agency--they don't have enough people. You know, 
if we really want to do something there, like for coverage, 
national coverage determinations, they need more people. And I, 
by the way, used to work over there many moons ago, so I know 
exactly what it is like. And they can--they could use some 
help.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Dr. Shuren. I would like to touch on 
an area that Chair Eshoo mentioned before the recess regarding 
the distinction between servicing and re-manufacturing of 
medical devices.
    Just to be clear, is it your opinion that it will be 
helpful for Congress to further clarify what constitutes re-
manufacturing in statute?
    Dr. Shuren. We do think that that can be helpful. Again, 
the devil is in the details as to what it always looks like. 
But we know that, even though we have got guidance that is 
going through, there is a lot more comfort sometimes--it is 
guidance, that there is more comfort if certain things are 
baked into the statute.
    So again, we think this could be helpful, again, depending 
upon what that provision looks like, and we would be--if there 
is interest, we would be happy to work with the committee on 
it.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you. And I would like to conclude by 
thanking my colleague, Representative Peters, for working with 
me on the introduction of Clarifying Re-manufacturing to 
Protect Patient Safety Act, which I believe would provide the 
necessary clarity on what constitutes a significant change to a 
medical device, as well as what constitutes re-manufacturing.
    Thank you. I see my time has expired. Again, thank you, 
Madam Chair Eshoo, for convening such an important hearing.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back. Thank you for your 
kind comments. The Chair is pleased to recognize the 
gentlewoman from California, Ms. Barragan, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Barragan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Dr. Shuren, several non-profit consumer advocate groups and 
public health organizations have raised concerns over the lack 
of transparency regarding the FDA's non-public negotiations for 
the Medical Device User Fee Amendments program. How involved 
were patients and consumer advocate groups during the 
negotiations?
    Dr. Shuren. We had held, I think it was, monthly 
stakeholder meetings to provide updates and to seek comments on 
the MDUFA V negotiations.
    Ms. Barragan. So my understanding is that there are--no 
public stakeholder calls were held this year, and only one 
public stakeholder call was held in 2021. Do you know if that 
is accurate?
    Dr. Shuren. No, I don't believe that that is accurate. We 
can get you the details.
    Ms. Barragan. Great, I appreciate that. Thank you.
    Dr. Shuren, according to a January 2022 report by the GAO, 
the FDA lacks an agency-wide strategic workforce plan, and has 
no process in place to measure agency performance. The report 
emphasized that creating a centralized workforce strategy is 
vital for the FDA. Does the FDA plan to adopt an agency-wide 
strategic workforce plan?
    Dr. Shuren. I would like to take that back, since it is the 
agency speaking. But I have to tell you that those 
recommendations were taken seriously, account--and there have 
been a lot of efforts to facilitate our ability to hire and 
bring on board the people that we need in the agency to get our 
mission accomplished.
    Ms. Barragan. Great. Well, you know, for the first time in 
MDUFA's history, the FDA will publish the 5-year financial plan 
with hiring targets for the MDUFA program. So I would like to 
know how the FDA is going to build and retain a diverse FDA 
workforce that accurately reflects, you know, our country when 
trying to meet these new hiring performance goals. Is that 
something you can comment on today?
    Dr. Shuren. Yes. So we are--already issued a roadmap on 
diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, where this is one 
of our actions. It is part of our strategic priorities on a 
modern, diverse workforce.
    Moving forward, such activities include recruiting from 
targeted areas so that we are more reflective of the diversity 
in the country. I mean, there is a lot of diversity in CDRH to 
begin with, but there is a better job that we can be doing that 
that is reflected across all layers in the organization.
    Ms. Barragan. Well, thank you. This is of great importance 
to me. The--you know, the Hispanic Caucus, and making sure that 
we have diversity and inclusion, and the perspectives of those. 
So I just wanted to thank you for that, and I look forward to 
following up with you, and seeing anything more you have on 
this.
    With that, Madam Chairman, I yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentlewoman yields back. The Chair is 
pleased to recognize the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Carter, 
for your 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Dr. 
Shuren, for being here. I appreciate it.
    Dr. Shuren, way back in 2017, I--since that time I have 
really appreciated your engagement on legislation that that 
myself and others on this committee have authored to establish 
over-the-counter hearing aids. I am a pharmacist by profession, 
and I see firsthand, and have seen throughout my professional 
career, the need for this. And I want to tell you that I 
appreciate your engagement in this.
    The agency proposed a rule on October 19th, as I understand 
it, of last year that got a lot of things right. And I want to 
thank you for that, as well. Any idea when--or any indication 
that you can give us when the FDA might finalize this proposed 
rule?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, sir--and first of all, thank you for that 
provision. We couldn't agree more. This is--these technologies 
are very, very important for public health.
    We are supposed to, you know, issue that 180 days from the 
end of the comment period. So that turns out to be about July 
15th. And our goal is to do that. We know this is important to 
the Administration.
    I can't--you know, some of it is out of our control, but 
that is our goal, to try to meet that statutory deadline.
    Mr. Carter. And you said it would be, what, June?
    Dr. Shuren. July 15th.
    Mr. Carter. July 15th? OK.
    Dr. Shuren. Yes.
    Mr. Carter. We will look forward to that. I hope it will be 
before then. I will tell you there--again, my--and my 
experience has led me to believe and to offer to you that this 
is needed. I mean, you know, we got reading glasses. I mean, we 
ought to have over-the-counter hearing aids. I get it if there 
is a need for more severe cases. But for most people--like 
myself, who are getting on up there a little bit--you know, you 
do need a little bit of help, and there is no reason why we 
shouldn't be able to do this. So I look forward to that, and 
thank you again for your work on that.
    Dr. Shuren. We agree. I will mention we received about 
1,000 comments. So there is just--we want to make sure we get 
it right.
    Mr. Carter. You received 1,000?
    Dr. Shuren. Yes, about 1,000 comments.
    Mr. Carter. Pro, con, or can you indicate?
    Dr. Shuren. Mostly pro. Some had suggestions. You know, 
there are some differences of opinion, let's say, around where 
you set the output limits.
    Mr. Carter. Right.
    Dr. Shuren. For example.
    Mr. Carter. And I get that. And you are right, we want to 
get it right. We want--you know, we don't want to do--I mean, 
you know, the Hippocratic Oath, do no harm. So we don't want to 
do that. But at the same time, you know, we can help people, 
and we need to be doing that.
    Let me ask you about the FACTS Act, if you are familiar 
with that, the FDA Advancing Collection of Transformative 
Science Act. That is legislation that Dr. Burgess on this 
committee and I have cosponsored. And it was considered at a 
hearing 2 weeks ago that we were in, and it has important 
ramifications about the medical device community, and Real-
World Evidence, and a Clinical Laboratory Improvement 
Amendments, CLIA, waiver for EUA authorization, and for EUA-
authorized diagnostic tests. And of course, again, this is very 
important. And I hope that the committee will continue to move 
this bill forward. It is a very important piece of legislation.
    Will you commit to working and continuing to work, as you 
have, with this committee to improve and advance both the Real-
World Evidence and Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments 
waiver provisions of this legislation?
    Dr. Shuren. We are happy to continue to, you know, talk 
with folks through that. We are looking--I should tell you, in 
those transitions from an emergency use authorization to full 
marketing authorization, we are taking advantage of what has 
already, you know, been provided.
    We will not--like for a CLIA waiver, we are not planning to 
ask folks to go ahead and do usability studies. You know, there 
is no need. They have been out there. The biggest focus is 
really going to be on having enough data just to make sure that 
they work----
    Mr. Carter. Right.
    Dr. Shuren [continuing]. Because we have relied on so 
little data to put them out on the marketplace.
    Mr. Carter. Right. Good, good. Well, again, thank you. 
These are important issues. And thank you and the agency for 
your attention to these.
    And, Madam Chair, I will yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back. The Chair is pleased 
to recognize Dr. Schrier from Washington State for your 5 
minutes of questions.
    Ms. Schrier. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Dr. 
Shuren, for coming today to discuss the medical device user fee 
agreements. Thank you for all you have done to help the 
American people get through the worst of the pandemic. And it 
is very nice to see you and talk with you again.
    I would love to focus on what the FDA and industry can do 
together to get the right product to the right market at the 
right time and, frankly, even in the right quantity and the 
right price for a clearly defined purpose. And I have something 
clear in mind.
    You and I have been in touch on and off for about a year 
and a half regarding the rolling out of rapid home COVID tests. 
And as you know, for most of that time I was feeling pretty 
frustrated, because the process just seemed so slow, and seemed 
unnecessarily difficult to get these tests approved and into 
people's hands, even though the technology is pretty simple.
    And I was hearing from universities and researchers and 
companies that had submitted applications but were still 
waiting for FDA emergency use authorization. And it seemed like 
at every stage there were barriers, but barriers that, with the 
right panel of public health experts and industry advisers all 
in a room together, could have really improved communication, 
and maybe been resolved quickly.
    I am delighted that now we have 17 home antigen tests and a 
couple of molecular tests on the market for--with emergency use 
authorization, although the price point is still too high for 
most people to use that for screening. But that means I was 
even happier when the Administration started sending free tests 
to every home in the country during the Omicron peak.
    But still, reflecting on a year and a half, I felt like we 
were still lagging behind. And having an advisory panel to 
bring all of these specialists, public health, industry, 
consumers, and the FDA all together, could have defined that 
goal, set some standards that everybody agreed upon, figured 
out how you were going to test them, and even sped up that 
approval process.
    My bill, the Diagnostic Device Advisory Committee Act to 
create such a panel will do just that, and it will convene a 
group of experts meeting with FDA to discuss the real-world 
impact of diagnostics. And if passed, this will engage the 
diagnostics experts, consumers, public health, and you to talk 
about the risks, uses, needs, and the applications of these 
devices. And I think it will bring a lot of transparency and, 
hopefully, expediency.
    So, Dr. Shuren, with the lens of lessons learned, I was 
just wondering if you could talk a bit about how such a panel 
might help future discussions, and how it might expedite 
getting things to market more quickly.
    Dr. Shuren. Well, certainly, input from the outside experts 
can be very informative. Certainly, things in advance, when we 
deal in a public health emergency, things moving quickly, just 
a--sometimes a little bit more challenging. But this is 
something we would certainly welcome the opportunity to talk 
with you about, and work with you on.
    I will say in the case--I don't want to throw the baby out 
with the bathwater, you know--for over-the counter antigen 
tests, which we put as a priority, actually, in the spring of 
2020, and were one of the first countries to authorize, where 
we saw that you had lots of tests is where you invest in the 
marketplace.
    It is not about having a lot of different tests. It is 
about having a lot of tests made through high manufacturing 
capacity. And you have a country like the UK. When they put 
that money in through large government contracts that were 
going to then support large manufacturing volume, and they only 
did it with a handful of, you know, companies, and subsidizing 
so that your tests are low cost or free, massive increase in 
what was available. And many more developers came to their 
marketplace.
    And I agree with what the Administration did. When they got 
money, you know, they invested in the marketplace. And we saw 
the same thing happen, a rapid increase, you know, of--well, 
increase in production now over an order of magnitude. And that 
really makes a difference. And if that is not there, the 
numbers drop, you know, because the companies--if there isn't 
that demand or guaranteed with contracts, they are going to cut 
production. We saw it happen in the U.S. There were more tests 
available in late spring than in late summer, because demand 
dropped, nothing propped up the marketplace. You know, a 
company closed a manufacturing facility.
    Ms. Schrier. And Dr. Shuren----
    Dr. Shuren. So that is a key piece that we need to have 
there.
    Ms. Schrier. I could not agree more.
    Dr. Shuren. And a last thing is independent review. When we 
were able--funding to support NIH with us to do the ITAP 
program, now we are able to make sure, without changing any 
standards, they were able to do the evaluations very quickly, 
just a few weeks, evaluate, and we authorize where the data was 
there. Our performance standards are really the same as we have 
seen, you know, that 80 percent sensitivity, as with other 
countries.
    But the technology isn't as simple, though, actually 
getting those antibodies right on the strip. We have seen 
problems. In fact, the UK had the same experience. Most of the 
tests that came to them they never authorized, because of 
problems either with the test on validation--we have had the 
exact same experience with the U.S. In fact, many of the folks 
we have seen are the same folks that made all those bad 
antibody tests, with the same technology that came onto the 
U.S. market.
    So I 100 percent want to work with you. I also want to make 
sure, also, that we deal with some of these other issues, to 
assure that we, in the future, have the tests we need.
    Ms. Schrier. Thank you very much----
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentlewoman's time has expired.
    Ms. Schrier. I yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from 
Texas, Mr. Crenshaw, for your 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Crenshaw. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Dr. 
Shuren, for being here with us today.
    I certainly share my colleagues' concerns about how MDUFA V 
came together, and I hope you will work with us for a better 
process in the future.
    We are excited to have you here to talk about the next 
frontier of medical devices. and how our phones and devices can 
deliver digital health. You know, we carry these things around, 
and they have tremendous possibility to improve patient health 
and well-being.
    One that stands out to me in particular is the app 
connected to the continuous glucose monitor, which allows 
parents to track on their phones the glucose levels of their 
children with diabetes. A constituent of mine talks about this 
innovation as an absolute game changer. She used to wake up 
multiple times a night to check her son's glucose levels. Now, 
just as an app that notifies her when he drops to dangerous 
levels.
    The FDA uses the framework of safe and effective to 
evaluate medical devices. I am always going to be a little 
skeptical of that mandate to regulate effectiveness, and 
whether the FDA is best suited for that. That is a conversation 
for another time. But giving us the framework we currently 
have, do you think FDA is suited to properly regulate things 
like artificial intelligence?
    Dr. Shuren. So, first off, we are the place for doing it. 
And, you know, we have authorized now over 300 devices with 
artificial intelligence, particularly machine learning--I think 
just 50 in the past year.
    But I do think that we need a regulatory flexibility that 
we don't currently have to better tailor the pathways to that 
kind of technology.
    Mr. Crenshaw. OK.
    Dr. Shuren. The pathways in the law now are many years old. 
But I do think--and I am happy to continue the conversation--
effectiveness matters. You know, as a physician, too, we want 
to know that benefits outweigh the risks. And that is really, 
at the end of the day, what we are saying: benefits outweigh 
the risk. We have got to know it helps patients and that, 
again, you know, the risks----
    Mr. Crenshaw. And the reason I ask about the artificial 
intelligence question is because three or 4 years ago FDA had a 
paper that said they might need different authority to regulate 
digital health. You are saying right now there might need to be 
some changes. And maybe--and we don't have--we have 2-minutes 
and 47 seconds, I don't think we are going to get through it 
right now. But if you would please followup with us on what 
those changes need to be, that would be exceptionally helpful 
for this committee.
    The other question I want to ask you in our time left is, 
you know, one of the problems we often see with medical devices 
and other treatments is FDA approves something, then CMS has to 
evaluate it again, seemingly with the exact same set of tests 
and standards, just to determine if they will pay for it.
    How do you think--and maybe you weren't expecting a 
question like this--but how do you think these agencies can 
work together to get patients what they need, once it has been 
approved by FDA?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, we do have different standards. You know, 
they are reasonable and necessary, you know, safety and 
effectiveness. And what they have, not different than other 
insurers.
    But we believe it is very important that that pathway from 
an FDA marketing authorization to CMS--or, by the way, any 
insurer's decision to coverage-reimburse, we have got to 
streamline that. Because, quite frankly, patients don't have 
real access to technology, particularly if it is expensive, if 
it is not covered and paid for, right, because people just 
can't afford some of these things out of their pocket, and they 
just won't get it.
    And the U.S. is complicated. The reimbursement structure is 
much more complicated than some other countries. And providing 
predictability, however we do it--I am not a payer, so, you 
know, I can't tell you, and it is not for me to say what is the 
best thing from a CMS perspective. But I do think, as a Nation, 
solving that problem to have more predictable reimbursement is 
absolutely essential for us to drive better technology for 
patients. And if we don't do it, we are at risk of losing our 
edge on innovation to other countries.
    And I will tell you who is knocking at our door, is China.
    Mr. Crenshaw. Yes, and I couldn't agree with you more. I 
agree with the sentiment. I suppose we could delve into this a 
little deeper at a later time on whether CMS is duplicating the 
processes that occur at FDA already. I think that is what we 
are concerned about. You know, looking at cost effectiveness 
seems to be like something a payer would do. But do they really 
need to do extra safety tests when FDA has already done it? 
That would be our issue. And they are not here right now. So, 
you know, it is--I am just curious what your thoughts were.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back. The issue was raised 
earlier in our hearing today, and I think that, working with 
FDA, with Dr. Shuren--and Cures 2.0, I think, presents an 
opportunity for changes that we can work together on. But this 
is a concern on both sides of the aisle, very legitimate.
    All right, all committee member--staffers, members of the 
subcommittee, I will stay to finish out the questions if we 
only have three more. Congress members Kuster, Dunn, and 
Trahan. Do we have anyone else? Can you ping us? Otherwise, I 
am going to stop, and go and vote, and come back, and Dr. 
Shuren is going to have to wait again.
    So why don't we go to the gentlewoman from New Hampshire? 
And I hope the offices respond.
    Ms. Kuster. Thank you very much, Madam Chair----
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentlewoman from New Hampshire is 
recognized.
    Ms. Kuster. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Thank you, Dr. Shuren, for being with us today. I want to 
jump right in, and ask you about the proposed pilot program at 
FDA known as the Total Product Life Cycle Advisory Program, 
also known as TAP.
    This program is intended to foster earlier interaction 
between the FDA and industry to identify risks earlier in the 
development with input from outside stakeholders. While the 
pilot will begin in 2023 with only 15 products, importantly it 
will increase to 325 products by the end of the MDUFA in 2027. 
I am interested in learning about how this program will achieve 
its intended goals of improving patient outcomes, streamlining 
regulatory engagement, and increasing efficiency in the pre-
market review process.
    Dr. Shuren, can you elaborate on how TAP will achieve these 
goals?
    Dr. Shuren. One of the lessons learned from COVID is that, 
to facilitate technology coming to the marketplace, and safe 
and effective technology, developers sometimes are hitting, you 
know, roadblocks. Particularly if you are dealing with 
innovative technology, you may be dealing with new science.
    And when we had the ability, as we did in COVID, to engage 
with those developers in near or real time to answer their 
questions, to work with them hand-in-glove to problem-solve, we 
could expedite product coming to market, because we solve 
problems more quickly. They were more efficient. You can be 
more efficient in how you spend your money--you, as the 
developer--and you can reduce that time, ultimately, on the 
development evaluation cycle and then, ultimately, for FDA 
authorization.
    So TAP is just taking from those lessons learned, and now 
piloting that, if you will, in peacetime. And by doing this, 
the reason you will see the growth also in products is that we 
are sort of rolling this out. We will start with one of our 
offices, you know, learn from that, be iterative, be like an 
innovator, do this like a skunkworks, and then we will start 
rolling it out to other offices, and then include the 
opportunity for more products to come in.
    And this, in particular, can be a major game changer for, 
you know, your small, innovative companies who don't have the 
same bandwidth for trying to get that product to market. Again, 
it has got to be safe and effective, the science has got to 
support it. But we know, from experience, these are the things 
that can really make a big difference.
    Ms. Kuster. And how do you expect FDA will balance the 
resource needs of the program with the demands of a growing 
stack of pre-market submissions?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, this is one of the reasons too we got 
added resources in--or would get, you know, if enacted--that 
would then give us the capability for handling those additional 
submissions that are coming in the door outside of TAP.
    And the add-on payments that are put in as an 
accountability factor is another mechanism for kind of assuring 
that we keep, if you will, our eyes focused on a variety of 
actions that we have committed to meet and to take over the 
course of MDUFA V.
    We also sort of factored in for the pilot--is that it is up 
to a certain number. So if it turns out, you know, we are not 
completely right on the resource needs, and we would have 
needed more, we can kind of scale back, if you will, the number 
of products that come into it. So we really can test drive, and 
that is the nice thing about doing a pilot in this case. We 
really can learn, factor that in. And if things look good, we 
will have a conversation with industry about where we go from 
here. And if it doesn't look good, you know, we can pull the 
plug.
    But most of the people we are hiring are your review folks 
who are doing the other bread-and-butter work. So we see this 
as a win, and we think MDUFA V has already built in a number of 
aspects to assure that we are well positioned to make good on 
our other commitments, as well.
    Ms. Kuster. Great. And one last one: How will the FDA 
ensure that patient advocates and outside stakeholders are 
involved in the process?
    And how will you ensure that the focus remains on safety 
and efficacy?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, it is very important that the agreement 
for MDUFA V, whatever gets enacted, does not change our 
independence on decisionmaking, it is not to get money in 
return for making a particular policy decision or any decisions 
on product. Absolutely essential that this is really about 
improving performance, not to influence our decisionmaking. And 
we think what we have gotten to with industry, in trying to 
reach consensus around there, achieves that objective.
    And of course, you know, moving forward, we do view the 
perspective of patients as being very important in the work 
that we do. And investments from MDUFA V are going to expand 
our abilities to advance that work on the science of patient 
input, and broaden patient engagement into medical device 
development evaluation.
    Ms. Kuster. Great. Thank you so much. My time is up----
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentlewoman's time is----
    Ms. Kuster [continuing]. I yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. Yes, the gentlewoman's time has expired. The 
Chair is pleased to recognize another one of the doctors on our 
subcommittee, Dr. Dunn of Florida, for your 5 minutes.
    Mr. Dunn. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, for hosting 
this hearing today to discuss the agreement between the FDA and 
the industry regarding medical user fees.
    And let me say thank you, Dr. Shuren, for your insights 
today, and for your stamina putting up with these marathon 
questions, and for your enthusiasm for this. It is--it shows 
through. We appreciate a good witness who comes and really 
informs us. Thank you.
    Let me say innovation in the device space is exciting for 
patients and doctors. Like, more and more advanced medical 
devices come to market, and Congress just has to make sure that 
FDA is adequately equipped to properly evaluate these new and 
emerging technologies.
    We also have to guarantee that the patients have access to 
the latest and greatest technologies without significant 
delays, and that those delays that collect patient information 
keep that information secure.
    We have learned a lot over the course of the pandemic. We 
witnessed the FDA efficiently grant emergency use 
authorizations to numerous diagnostic tests and devices. And I 
would like to see us continue to tune that process to continue 
these rapid and safe approvals to make it more available to the 
patients. And I certainly appreciate you being here to inform 
us on that today, Dr. Shuren.
    I understand that, during the MDUFA IV reauthorization 
process, the committee sought additional information regarding 
the servicing of medical devices. As a result, the FDA put out 
in 2018 a report on the matter, concluding that OEMs and third-
party servicers both provide high-quality, safe, and effective 
servicing of medical devices. I know this to be true from my 
own personal experiences. I ran a large practice with a number 
of complex machines, used linear accelerators for radiotherapy, 
PET scanners, CT scanners, et cetera.
    Utilizing third-party services was critical to maintain 
high-volume, high-quality care in a cost-effective manner. So I 
commend the FDA for following through on this committee's 
concerns about enhanced post-market surveillance and 
transparency by requiring disclosure of servicing on the MDR 
3500 Form, and especially for providing clarity on the 
definition of re-manufacturing in your draft guidance.
    So, Dr. Shuren, I understand CDRH has worked hard to 
provide a clear, transparent process for entities to understand 
if they are engaged in servicing or in re-manufacturing of 
devices. And is it correct that the FDA concluded in 2018 there 
was not--no significant safety concerns related to the third-
party servicing of medical devices?
    Dr. Shuren. We did conclude that there weren't widespread 
concerns.
    Mr. Dunn. Excellent, excellent. How much feedback has the 
agency received on your 2021 draft guidance regarding re-
manufacturing?
    Dr. Shuren. Actually, I don't know the numbers, offhand.
    Mr. Dunn. Do you have a feel--some of it, not much of it?
    Dr. Shuren. I would rather get you the right information.
    Mr. Dunn. OK. Didn't--OK. When do you expect that guidance 
to be finalized?
    Dr. Shuren. It is, you know, on our list to try to move 
forward in the coming year.
    Mr. Dunn. In this year?
    Dr. Shuren. In this year.
    Mr. Dunn. Excellent, excellent.
    As you know, in the CARES Act, Congress granted FDA 
temporary authorities limited to the duration of the emergency 
to require additional reporting related to medical device 
shortages. You addressed that earlier in one of your comments. 
The FDA subsequently listed only 30 devices on a shortage list 
such as PPEs, diagnostics, ventilators, et cetera.
    In January of this year the FDA issued draft guidance 
outlining their vision for reporting requirements beyond the 
public health emergency. It is my understanding that they are 
pursuing authorities to issue blanket requirements for the 
entire industry, including hundreds of thousands of devices. It 
seems to me, surely, there are only a few hundred critical 
devices we should be tracking in that detail.
    And can we look at some kind of threshold for reporting on 
all those requirements? Does the CDRH even have the expertise 
in the supply chain management to look at those things?
    Dr. Shuren. Yes, so what we are putting forward is still a 
narrow list of devices.
    Mr. Dunn. Oh, excellent.
    Dr. Shuren. Yes, it is, and----
    Mr. Dunn. We would like to know what that is, but that--
thank you.
    Dr. Shuren. Yes. No, it is, and it is really the things 
that are critically important.
    Mr. Dunn. And I actually got your point earlier that it is 
critically important. I just didn't want to see, you know, the 
bureaucracy bogged down with chasing hundreds of thousands of 
different supply chains for reporting, especially on a biweekly 
basis.
    Dr. Shuren. We don't want to, either.
    Mr. Dunn. It seems to me--yes. No, I mean, I think--I don't 
know that I could do biweekly reporting like that, so--thank 
you very much again, Dr. Shuren, you have been a really 
excellent witness, and a great guy. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. Isn't that lovely? Isn't that nice for you to 
hear, Dr. Shuren?
    Thank you, Dr. Dunn.
    All right. We have one more member to question before we 
take a break. There are eight votes, and I will return ASAP 
upon the last vote being cast for the second panel.
    The gentlewoman from Massachusetts, Congresswoman Trahan, 
is recognized for your 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Trahan. Well, thank you, Chairwoman Eshoo, Ranking 
Member Guthrie, for convening us here today to discuss the 
importance of medical devices.
    You know, I just want to start with an issue that has 
dominated the conversation around supply chain shortages, and 
that is semiconductor chips. Over the last few months my office 
has heard from several companies facing dire chip shortages, 
critical devices, from mammography screening to defibrillators 
to diagnostic scanners. The chip shortage is hindering 
companies' ability to upgrade equipment, meet market demands, 
and sustain a thriving job market.
    So, Dr. Shuren, in your position have you heard much about 
this challenge?
    Is there a role for the FDA, either through cooperation 
with the Department of Commerce or working with companies, to 
facilitate upgrades from legacy chips to advanced chips?
    Dr. Shuren. The answer is yes. We have heard a lot. We have 
talked to a lot of manufacturers. We have had conversations 
with the Department of Commerce and other folks in government 
to sort of convey the importance of these chips to a variety of 
medical devices.
    And, of course, the shortage on chips is, of course, 
leading to and contributing to shortages on medical devices. 
And appreciate, too, those chips are used in a variety of 
technologies, and there is lots of needs out there. But we have 
really been trying to advocate for the needs here in public 
health.
    And certainly, when it comes to, like, the Defense 
Production Act too, we have got HHS, who plays, you know, the 
lead role here, or one of the lead roles in trying to advance 
that, in partnership with other parts of the government.
    Mrs. Trahan. Great. I appreciate that.
    You know, in recent years we have seen an influx of 
software using artificial intelligence in the medical device 
space, ranging from imaging tools used in radiology to insulin 
pumps that automatically adjust. And, unlike a scalpel or X-ray 
machine, AI-powered medical software needs to be continually 
updated by design. These tools are built so that they continue 
to learn and improve from data they collect while they are 
deployed.
    And the FDA requires that software that undergoes 
significant changes go through that approval process a second 
time. This is a necessary safeguard, but can slow the approval 
process for updated versions of medical software, especially 
those using data collected post-market.
    So, as a part of its proposed artificial intelligence 
action plan, the FDA has described accepting a pre-determined 
change control plan as a part of the pre-market submission 
process for software as a medical device. And in the control 
plan a manufacturer could--would detail ahead of time how it 
plans to change its software and establish how those changes 
will not alter the safety and effectiveness of the software.
    So how would pre-determined change control plans in pre-
market applications affect the approval process for software as 
a medical device?
    Dr. Shuren. So where it may be applicable to have a plan 
like that where the manufacturer is laying out here are the 
changes we will--we want to make, and here is how we will 
assure that those changes are not, for example, adversely 
impacting the safety or effectiveness of the technology, and if 
we are looking at that, and that plan makes sense, and that is 
going to work, and we go ahead and authorize that either as 
part of authorizing the device--or a company could come in 
later and just come in with that plan, then you are expediting 
updated, modified devices within the context of that plan, 
expediting patient access, because the FDA isn't going to look 
at it. We have already looked at what the manufacturer will be 
doing.
    What is important, though, of course, is assuring that you 
have got the safeguards in place, that when those changes are 
made, in fact, it remains safe and effective technology, and we 
have the ability to take action if problems arise in the 
future.
    Mrs. Trahan. That is great. And there are other regulatory 
tools that the FDA can use to promote continued evaluation of 
software as a medical device throughout its product Life Cycle?
    Dr. Shuren. Well, we think this is a perfect opportunity 
for sort of marrying up, you know, more of a continued 
evaluation from Real-World Evidence.
    That is why, you know, part of our investment in those 
real-world data sources is can we be using that to, you know--
if you got technology out there, and we are just--you know, we 
are learning from it, we are kind of keeping tabs. And software 
as a medical device, including with AI capabilities, is really 
ripe candidates for doing that. Even, you know, where we can, 
leveraging information that the device itself is collecting on 
itself--almost like a black box in an airplane. So we think 
those kinds of methods are really things we would incorporate.
    Where we are limited, though, is some of the constraints 
that we have under the current law, and another reason why we 
think having more flexibility to tailor pathways that better 
fit these and other kinds of technologies, but do it 
voluntarily, you know--so, Company, pick the old way or pick 
the new way, and if you like--and want to change your mind, 
flip to the other later.
    But if we can do that and build it right, then we can take 
advantage and get the best of both worlds. We would actually 
have better assurances of safety and effectiveness, and more 
expedited time to the market.
    Mrs. Trahan. Thank you. I know my time----
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentlewoman's time has expired.
    Mrs. Trahan. Thank you.
    Ms. Eshoo. Dr. Shuren, thank you. Thank you for your 
patience today with our schedule. Thank you for the work that 
you have done, what your entire team, the center--this has been 
a test like no other, the last two years. And, you know, the 
work that you and everyone at--you know, at the center at the 
FDA have done--extraordinary work under extraordinary 
circumstances. So bravo to you, to all of the people there. 
Thank you for the work that has been put into this negotiation. 
We will, of course, move it along. And we look forward to 
continuing to work with you to really produce for the American 
people. So thank you.
    The committee is going to recess now, and I just want to 
close--because she won't be here when we come back for the 
second panel--to recognize Kim--what is the matter with me? Too 
much talking today. Kim, we miss you, but it is great to see 
you out there.
    And Dr. Shuren, you are fortunate. You are fortunate to 
have Kim right there with you. Bravo.
    OK, so we are going to go and vote. We will be back as soon 
as we can after the eighth vote is cast, and hear from our 
second panel. Thank you again. Bravo.
    [Recess.]
    Ms. Eshoo. The Health Subcommittee will reconvene, and I 
want to thank our--the witnesses of our second panel, and I now 
would like to introduce them.
    Ms. Janet Trunzo is the senior executive vice president of 
technology and regulatory affairs for the Advanced Medical 
Technology Association. We know them as AdvaMed.
    Welcome to you, and thank you.
    Ms. Diane Wurzburger is the executive of regulatory affairs 
for GE Healthcare, and is testifying on behalf of the Medical 
Imaging and Technology Alliance, MITA, M-I-T-A, where she 
serves on the board of directors and chair of the technical and 
regulatory committee.
    Mr. Mark Leahey is the president and chief executive 
officer of the Medical Device Manufacturers Association, MDMA.
    And with us here in person--patiently waited, I am sure, 
just about all day--Dr. Richard Kovacs. He is the chief medical 
officer and past president of the American College of 
Cardiology. He is also a practicing cardiologist and a 
professor at the Indiana University School of Medicine.
    Thank you very much, Dr. Kovacs, and welcome to our 
subcommittee.
    We thank all of the witnesses for joining us today. We are 
looking forward to your testimony.
    And we will go straight to you, Dr. Kovacs. You are 
recognized for 5 minutes. I think you probably know what the 
lights are.
    Turn your microphone on, and a warm welcome to you, and the 
gratitude of the entire committee for being with us.

 STATEMENT OF RICHARD J. KOVACS, M.D., Q.E. AND SALLY RUSSELL 
 PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, INDIANA UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, 
  CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, AMERICAN COLLEGE OF CARDIOLOGY; MARK 
     LEAHEY, PRESIDENT & CEO, MEDICAL DEVICE MANUFACTURERS 
  ASSOCIATION; JANET TRUNZO, SENIOR EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, 
TECHNOLOGY AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS, ADVANCED MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY 
   ASSOCIATION (ADVAMED); AND DIANE WURZBURGER, EXECUTIVE OF 
               REGULATORY AFFAIRS, GE HEALTHCARE

              STATEMENT OF RICHARD J. KOVACS, M.D.


    Dr. Kovacs. Chairwoman Eshoo and Ranking Member Guthrie and 
the distinguished members of the subcommittee, I am Dr. Richard 
Kovacs. I have been introduced. I am proud to represent the 
ACC, a 54,000-member professional society whose care team 
members work to transform cardiovascular care and improve heart 
health.
    The college's activities include leading in education, 
bestowing credentials on highly qualified individuals, 
accrediting high-quality institutions, publishing leading 
medical journals, and maintaining national cardiovascular data 
registries to improve care.
    Today I am here to discuss re-authorization of MDUFA from a 
clinician's perspective, with special emphasis on four topics: 
listening to the patient; attention to the Total Product Life 
Cycle; use of Real-World Evidence for safety and efficacy; and 
advancing regulatory science.
    We and my colleagues use medical devices on a daily basis 
to serve and heal our patients. We ask our patients what is 
important to them, and we listen carefully.
    Let me give you an example. Before I flew to Washington 
last night, I saw Richard, an 86-year-old man from northwestern 
Indiana. He likes to work in his yard. He, unfortunately, 
suffered from aortic stenosis, a severe narrowing of the main 
outlet valve of his heart. Three weeks ago he couldn't walk 
fifty feet from his car into the hospital door because he was 
so short of breath. He received a transcatheter aortic valve 
replacement, left the hospital within 48 hours, has no scar on 
his chest, and feels great. When I saw him yesterday, he is 
back in his garden.
    But in the longitudinal care, our care doesn't stop with 
the implantation of a device like this.
    A few weeks ago I had to say goodbye to another patient, 
Carlos, a 70-year-old man from northeastern Indiana who I met 
in 1989, when he needed an aortic valve replacement. We 
selected a mechanical valve. It was implanted surgically. Yes, 
he did have a scar, but that valve functioned flawlessly for 
the next 33 years, until he passed away from another disease.
    So we urge you to listen to patients, and engage the 
patient voice from the earliest phases of development and 
throughout the life cycle of the medical device. The patients 
will tell you what really matters to them.
    We have specific recommendations in our written submission. 
They correspond a lot to what Dr. Shuren said earlier today.
    Clinicians like me use these devices every day. And like 
the example of Carlos, I may manage a patient for decades. 
Cardiology is a specialty where the pace of change is rapid, 
and innovations in our DNA. Clinicians have a great deal to 
offer in this process. We support the TPLC Advisory Program and 
its efforts to facilitate the early involvement of clinicians 
in the product life cycle.
    It is impossible to know everything about a device from 
early clinical trials. So Real-World Evidence of safety and 
efficacy, evidence that can be gleaned from clinical data 
registries like our National Cardiovascular Data Registry is 
what I rely on through the product life cycle. We should 
leverage these data for the public good.
    Registries can be cost savings. Sponsors that have used 
registries to house post-approval studies have achieved savings 
of 40 to 60 percent over the usual clinical trials.
    Safety and efficacy are also best supported by sound 
regulatory science. Science is a team sport these days, and 
teams of industry employees, academics, and regulators can 
solve these problems. The Cardiac Safety Research Consortium is 
such a collaboration, and it has made important advancements in 
drug safety. The ACC supports the FDA Network of Experts 
program, and can expand access to experts in cardiovascular 
disease.
    Finally, I want to say we also support the efforts to 
provide additional cybersecurity. I have had the experience of 
working in two hospitals that have been hacked, and the care 
deteriorates dramatically.
    So thank you for your interest. And on behalf of our 
patients and our profession, thank you for allowing us to be 
part of this process, and I look forward to any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Kovacs follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Doctor.
    Next, Mr. Leahey, you are recognized for your 5 minutes of 
testimony, and thank you.
    [Pause.]
    Ms. Eshoo. We have a problem, or----
    Voice. He needs to go off mute.
    Ms. Eshoo. Pardon me?
    Voice. He needs to go off mute.
    Ms. Eshoo. Oh, I see.
    Mr. Leahey. Can you hear me now?
    Ms. Eshoo. You have to unmute yourself, Mr. Leahey.
    Mr. Leahey. Yes, can you hear me?
    Ms. Eshoo. We can hear you, yes.
    Mr. Leahey. OK, great.


                    STATEMENT OF MARK LEAHEY


    Mr. Leahey. Thank you, Chairwoman Eshoo, Ranking Member 
Guthrie, and members of the subcommittee, for the opportunity 
to testify today. My name is Mark Leahey, and I am the 
president and CEO of the Medical Device Manufacturers 
Association, a national trade association representing hundreds 
of medical technology companies.
    MDMA was founded in 1992 to be the voice of the innovative 
and entrepreneurial sector of the industry. While the industry 
is broadly represented throughout the United States, one of the 
unique components of this vibrant part of America's innovation 
ecosystem is that the majority of companies are small 
businesses. According to data from the Department of Commerce, 
over 98 percent of med tech companies have fewer than 500 
employees, and more than 80 percent have less than 50 
employees, yet they are the major source of innovation in 
America's competitive advantage in medical technology.
    Our industry is dedicated to one mission: to alleviate 
human suffering and to improve patient care. Our industry has a 
proud tradition of answering the needs of patients and 
providers, and perhaps no example is more profound than what 
innovators have done since the outset of the COVID-19 pandemic. 
Whether it was respiratory devices, diagnostics, advanced 
patient monitoring, or personal protective equipment, the 
medical technology industry worked tirelessly to help the 
United States and the entire world to confront this challenge, 
and they continue to do so today.
    In addition to the extraordinary efforts of this industry 
and to healthcare professionals, I would also like to take a 
moment to acknowledge the dedicated professionals at the FDA 
who worked 24/7--COVID and non-COVID medical technologies to 
improve patient care during the pandemic. Their efforts ensured 
that patients had timely access to safe and effective medical 
technologies.
    The MDUFA V draft agreement that we are discussing today 
and the historic increase in user fee funding that it contains 
demonstrates our commitment to provide additional capacity and 
expertise to further advance the FDA's mission. MDUFA V five 
provides over $2 billion in investable funding to FDA.
    As a point of reference, MDUFA totaled approximately $150 
million over the five years of the program. While each MDUFA 
typically provides funding for an additional 200 new hires, 
under MDUFA V FDA will be able to hire a minimum of 273 people, 
and up to 387 new people to support the MDUFA program. This 
represents a historic increase in both overall funds and 
people, and it is our hope and expectation that this will be 
the last major investment needed for the MDUFA program, and 
that moving forward, any necessary increases will be much more 
modest and targeted.
    With these significant investments, MDUFA V also 
establishes more transparency around the use of funds, 
including ensuring that annual hiring targets are met. FDA will 
also conduct an H.R. assessment during the MDUFA V to identify 
how many MDUFA-funded vacancies exist. Currently, CDRH is only 
able to track MDUFA IV and later FTEs. Public reports in 2016 
indicated MDUFA-funded vacancies exceeded 25 percent, and 
innovators want to ensure that the additional capacity that we 
are funding through user fees is realized in new additional 
hires and backfilling any vacancies that arise.
    Beyond the financial accountability and transparency 
provisions that MDUFA V contains, performance goals associated 
with the de novo and PMA total time to decision also improved 
over the course of the agreement.
    One goal that was elusive under MDUFA IV was the 510K total 
time to decision goal in Fiscal Year 2022 of 108 days. As was 
mentioned earlier, COVID did impact FTE capacity, including the 
ability to meet certain MDUFA IV goals. Under MDUFA V, the 510K 
total time to decision goal will ramp down each year, hopefully 
achieving 108 days by Fiscal Year 2026.
    MDUFA V also expands investments in patient science and 
engagement to enhance the patient perspective into the medical 
device evaluation process. As we all know, America's medical 
technology ecosystem was not built overnight. It took decades 
of work between countless stakeholders including Congress, the 
FDA, innovators, physicians, patient groups, and more to design 
the regulatory pathways that has resulted in the gold standard 
of safety and efficacy. At the same time, we all recognize that 
this is a delicate balance to ensure that the right policies 
are in place to support innovation and to spur the next 
generation of cures, therapies, and diagnostics that patients 
are relying on.
    As I noted, this is a historic investment in the FDA, and 
it will be critical over the coming years to meet the goals and 
milestones within the user fee agreement help ensure that the 
United States remains the global leader in medical technology 
development.
    It is also critical that Congress continues its vital 
oversight role in providing the necessary resources and 
investments to FDA for it to achieve its mission.
    MDMA and our member companies remain committed to working 
closely with you to reach our shared goal of providing safe and 
effective medical technologies to patients and providers in a 
timely manner. Thank you once again for this committee's 
passionate leadership on this important work, and I look 
forward to answering any questions that the committee members 
may have. Thank you very much.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Leahey follows:]

                   Prepared Testimony of Mark Leahey

   President and CEO, Medical Device Manufacturers Association (MDMA)

  ``FDA User Fee Reauthorization: Ensuring Safe and Effective Medical 
                        Devices'' March 30, 2022

      House Energy and Commerce Committee, Subcommittee on Health

    Thank you Chairman Pallone, Ranking Member McMorris 
Rodgers, Subcommittee Chairwoman Eshoo, RankingMember Guthrie 
and Members of the committee for this opportunity to testify 
today. My name is Mark and I am the President and CEO of the 
Medical Device Manufacturers Association (``MDMA''), a national 
trade association representing hundreds of medical technology 
companies. MDMA was founded in 1992 to be the voice of the 
innovative and entrepreneurial sector of our industry.
    While the industry is broadly represented throughout the 
United States, one of the unique components of this vibrant 
part of America's innovation ecosystem is that the majority of 
companies are small businesses. According to data from the 
Department of Commerce, over 98% of med tech companies have 
fewer than 500 employees, and more than 80% have less than 50 
employees, yet they are the major source of innovation and 
America's competitive advantage in medical technology. Our 
industry is dedicated to one mission: to alleviate human 
suffering and improve patient care.
    Our industry has a proud tradition of answering the needs 
of patients and providers, and perhaps no example is more 
profound than what innovators have done since the outset of the 
COVID-19 pandemic. Whether it was respiratory technologies, 
diagnostics, advanced patient monitoring, or personal 
protective equipment, the medical technology industry worked 
tirelessly to help the United States and the entire world to 
confront this challenge, and they continue to do so today. In 
addition to the extraordinary efforts of this industry and 
healthcare professionals, I would also like to take a moment to 
acknowledge the dedicated professionals at the FDA who worked 
24/7 on COVID and non-COVID medical technologies to improve 
patient care during the pandemic. Their efforts ensured that 
patients had timely access to safe and effective medical 
technologies.
    The MDUFA V draft agreement that we are discussing today, 
and the historic increase in user fee funding that it contains, 
demonstrates our commitment to provide additional capacity and 
expertise to further advance their mission.
    MDUFA V provides over $2B in investable funding to FDA. As 
a point of reference, MDUFA I totaled approximately $150M over 
the five years of the program. While each MDUFA typically 
provides funding for an additional 200 new hires, under MDUFA 
V, FDA will be able to hire a minimum of 273 FTEs and up to 387 
new FTEs to support the MDUFA program. This represents a 
historic increase in both overall funds and people, and it is 
our hope and expectation that this will be the last major 
investment needed for the MDUFA program and that moving 
forward, any necessary increases will be much more modest and 
targeted.
    With these significant investments, MDUFA V also 
establishes more transparency around the use of the funds, 
including ensuring that annual hiring targets are met. FDA will 
also conduct a HR assessment during MDUFA V to identify how 
many MDUFA funded vacancies exist. Currently, CDRH is only able 
to track MDUFA IV and later FTEs. Public reports in 2016 
indicated MDUFA funded vacancies exceeded 25%, and innovators 
wants to ensure that the additional capacity we are funding 
through user fees is realized in the new additional hires and 
backfilling any vacancies that arise.
    Beyond the financial accountability and transparency 
provisions that MDUFA V contains, performance goals associated 
with De Novos and PMA Total Time to Decision (TTD) also improve 
over the course of the agreement. One goal that was elusive 
under MDUFA IV was the 510(k) Total Time to Decision Goal in 
FY22 of 108 days. As was mentioned earlier, COVID did impact 
FDA capacity, including the ability to meet certain MDUFA IV 
goals. Under MDUFA V, the 510(k) TTD goal will ramp down each 
year, hopefully achieving 108 days by FY26. MDUFA V also 
expands investments in Patient Science and Engagement to 
enhance the patient perspective into the medical device 
evaluation process.
    As we all know, America's medical technology ecosystem was 
not built overnight. It took decades of work between countless 
stakeholders, including Congress, the FDA, innovators, 
physicians, patient groups and more to design the regulatory 
pathways that has resulted in the gold standard of safety and 
efficacy. At the same time, we all recognize that this is a 
delicate balance to ensure that the right policies are in place 
to support innovation, and to spur the next generation of 
cures, therapies and diagnostics that so many patients are 
relying on. As I noted, this is a historic investment in the 
FDA, and it will be critical over the coming years to meet the 
goals and milestones within this user fee agreement to help 
ensure that the United States remains the global leader in 
medical technology development. It is also critical that 
Congress continues its vital oversight role, and providing the 
necessary resources and investments to FDA for it to achieve 
its mission. MDMA and our members remain committed to working 
closely with you to reach our shared goal of providing safe and 
effective medical technologies to patients and providors in a 
timely manner. Thank you once again Chairman Pallone, Ranking 
Member McMorris Rodgers, Subcommittee Chairwoman Eshoo and 
Ranking Member Guthrie for your passionate leadership on this 
important work, and I look forward to answering any questions 
that the committee members might have.

    Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Mr. Leahey. And for all the work that 
you and your colleagues put into the negotiations, bravo.
    Ms. Trunzo, you are now recognized for your 5 minutes of 
testimony.
    [Pause.]
    Ms. Eshoo. You need to unmute.
    [Pause.]
    Ms. Eshoo. Can you hear me?
    Ms. Trunzo. Yes, I can.


                    STATEMENT OF JANET TRUNZO


    Ms. Trunzo. Thank you----
    Ms. Eshoo. OK.
    Ms. Trunzo [continuing]. Very much, Chairwoman Eshoo, 
Ranking Member Guthrie, and members of the committee. Thank you 
so----
    Ms. Eshoo. There you are.
    Ms. Trunzo [continuing]. Much for inviting----
    Ms. Eshoo. Thank you.
    Ms. Trunzo [continuing]. The Advanced Medical Technology 
Association, or AdvaMed, to testify on the reauthorization of 
the Medical Device User Fee Program.
    This legislation is critical to patients continuing to have 
access to innovative, safe, and effective medical technologies, 
and we are grateful for the opportunity to offer our insights 
today.
    AdvaMed is the world's largest trade organization 
representing medical technology companies. AdvaMed represents 
more than 400 medical device manufacturers, of which there are 
300 small companies. I had the pleasure of representing AdvaMed 
during the discussions of the very first user fee program, the 
Medical Device User Fee and Modernization Act of 2002, and each 
of the re-authorizations since then.
    The ongoing public health emergency created uncertainties 
that presented a significant challenge to our MDUFA 
discussions. Yet AdvaMed believes that the collective efforts 
of the industry and FDA have produced an agreement that will 
further strengthen the medical device pre-market review 
program. This will advance the ultimate shared goal of patients 
having timely access to safe and effective medical devices.
    From the very first user fee program in 2002, the 
underlying principle is that user fees supplement existing 
appropriations so that FDA has the resources necessary to 
support timely review of submissions. While user fees support 
overall timeliness and predictability, they neither guarantee a 
particular result nor guarantee the timing of any particular 
application review. Those remain completely under FDA's 
authority.
    Industry and FDA have taken the opportunity during each re-
authorization to refine and improve the goals. Each MDUFA cycle 
included significant increases in investments by increasing the 
number of new FTEs to support the anticipated workload. For 
MDUFA V, AdvaMed and the industry representatives approached 
the re-authorization with the same two overarching principles 
we have had in the past: patients must continue to benefit from 
access to safe and effective medical devices; and the 
associated goals of the user fee program should be refined and 
improved.
    However, we also recognize that the COVID-19 public health 
emergency had required a significant effort on the part of FDA. 
As a result, we believe the device center needed to focus on 
the fundamentals of the device review program, which we refer 
to as Back to Basics. AdvaMed believes the package is well 
crafted to provide significant resources and capacity for FDA, 
greater predictability for the industry, and is in the best 
interests of patients.
    It has the following key components.
    First, the general goal structure for submissions is 
unchanged. Over the course of MDUFA V we expect to see 
improvements in review times compared to MDUFA IV goals, or 
compared to current performance, depending upon the submission 
type.
    Second, the package provides significant additional 
resources to ensure that FDA can provide timely feedback to 
companies seeking pre-submission guidance from the agency. This 
process enhances the likelihood of an efficient review of the 
product submission.
    Third, this package will fund targeted initiatives to 
support the pre-market review program. For example, there is 
increased funding for patient science and engagement to enhance 
the incorporation of the patient experience into the medical 
device evaluation process.
    Fourth, this package contains specific accountability 
measures for the evaluation of the program by funding a quality 
management program and two independent assessments of the 
review process.
    Finally, this agreement provides enhanced public 
transparency of MDUFA financing, including clarity on the use 
of the carryover balances.
    On behalf of AdvaMed, we look forward to working with 
Congress, FDA, and stakeholders on the re-authorization of the 
Medical Device User Fee Program so that our common goal of 
timely patient access to safe and effective medical devices is 
realized. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Trunzo follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Ms. Trunzo. You have been there from 
the beginning, so bravo to you. And it is wonderful to have you 
as a witness.
    Next, Ms. Wurzburger, you are recognized for 5 minutes for 
your testimony, and welcome, and thank you.


                 STATEMENT OF DIANE WURZBURGER


    Ms. Wurzburger. Thank you and good afternoon, Chairwoman 
Eshoo, Ranking Member Guthrie, and distinguished members of the 
subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before 
you today to discuss the FDA's Medical Device User Fee Program 
on behalf of the Medical Imaging and Technology Alliance, also 
known as MITA.
    MITA is the primary trade association and standards 
development organization representing the manufacturers of 
medical imaging technologies, including magnetic resonance 
imaging, medical X-ray equipment, computed tomography scanners, 
ultrasound, nuclear imaging, radiopharmaceuticals, AI-enabled 
imaging software, and other products. MITA member companies' 
technologies play an essential role in our Nation's healthcare 
infrastructure and are integral in the care pathways of 
evaluating, staging, managing, and effectively treating 
patients with cancer, heart disease, neurological degeneration, 
COVID-19, and numerous other medical conditions.
    By catching disease early, reducing the need for invasive 
inpatient procedures, and facilitating shorter recovery times, 
medical imaging saves money and improves efficiency in the 
healthcare system. Medical imaging technologies have 
revolutionized healthcare delivery in America and around the 
world, extending human vision into the very nature of disease.
    A consistent and timely FDA review process is essential to 
timely patient access to these technologies. MITA continues our 
strong support for an effective, well-resourced FDA capable of 
fulfilling its mission to protect and promote the public 
health. The medical imaging industry supported enactment of 
FDA's user fee programs in 2002 and its subsequent re-
authorizations in 2007, 2012, and 2017. We participated 
alongside our industry colleagues in the MDUFA V negotiations, 
and support enactment of the proposed agreement, which will 
provide the FDA device program with ample resources, establish 
new accountability measures, and allow for exploration of new 
review paradigms such as the Total Product Life Cycle Advisory 
Program, also known as TAP.
    User fees provide for an efficient pre-market review 
process, allowing the safe and effective medical device 
innovations to get patients--to get to patients and healthcare 
providers in an expedient, consistent, and transparent manner. 
Supplementing FDA funding with user fee brings stability and 
predictability to the device review process and timelines.
    The goals of the medical device industry and FDA commit to, 
and FDA's subsequent performance are critical to timely 
patients' access to safe and effective medical advancements. 
Without a consistent and timely FDA review process conducted by 
well-trained FDA staff, access to diagnostic imaging 
technologies will be delayed, and industry's ability to deliver 
technological advancements will be compromised.
    We, therefore, will continue to partner with FDA and other 
stakeholders in asking Congress to re-authorize this important 
program that supports patient access to safe and effective 
medical imaging innovations.
    MDUFA V was negotiated during turbulent times for all parts 
of our healthcare system, including innovators, regulators, 
healthcare providers, and patients. The COVID-19 pandemic 
strained every part of our society. FDA and industry strived to 
meet the challenges presented by this public health emergency 
by ensuring safe and effective medical devices could be 
delivered to patients in an expeditious manner.
    The last several years created significant resource 
challenges for FDA, and as it seeks to recover its operations 
and get back to pre-pandemic performance, it will need to be 
sufficiently resourced to meet its obligations and continue to 
review products for safety and effectiveness.
    The MDUFA V agreement will raise the Center for Devices and 
Radiological Health's funding significantly, allowing the 
center to meet its pre-market review commitments. It will also 
be able to hire new FTEs and meet rising payroll costs. And the 
agency will also continue to invest in successful programs that 
support the use of standards and Real-World Evidence in 
regulatory pre-market decisions; the advancement of digital 
health technologies; the expansion of patient engagement 
opportunities to inform the development and evaluation of 
innovative technologies; FDA's engagement with international 
regulators and the promotion of regulatory convergence; as well 
as continued FDA collaboration with accredited third-party 
reviewers to support a voluntary alternate review pathway.
    MDUFA V will bring new accountability measures and ensure 
FDA--excuse me, user fee dollars are being appropriately 
invested in shared goals, and also support multiple independent 
assessments of performance and generate recommendations on how 
the center can continue to improve its operations.
    In closing, MITA urges Congress to move quickly to 
enactment of MDUFA V. This agreement, negotiated between FDA 
and the medical device industry over the last year-and-a-half, 
will ensure ongoing patient access to safe and effective 
devices.
    Thank you for the opportunity to present our views today. I 
am happy to answer any questions you may have.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Wurzburger follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Ms. Wurzburger. And that concludes 
the testimony of our five witnesses. And thank you once again 
for being with us today, and your patience in terms of the 
House schedule. We will now move to member questions, and the 
Chair will recognize herself for 5 minutes to do so.
    Dr. Kovacs, in your written testimony you said that more 
needs to be done to use patient input to inform clinical study 
design in order to recruit and retain a diverse patient sample. 
In your view, what else should the FDA and the medical device 
manufacturers be doing to recruit more diverse patients in 
device clinical investigations?
    Dr. Kovacs. I think that Dr. Shuren had many good points to 
make this morning: going to where the patients are, to approach 
them in their environment; to use telemedicine and 
telecommunications to reach patients that otherwise are 
unreachable. And I would add one additional point to what Dr. 
Shuren mentioned this morning, and that is also to diversify 
our investigators.
    The actual clinical investigators need to look like the 
patients that are enrolled in these trials. Outside the scope 
of MDUFA, but within the scope of what could be--help with 
legislation to improve the training, to increase our pipeline. 
The college is working on this, but we realize we are a small 
organization trying to get way upstream of this to diversify 
our investigative team.
    Ms. Eshoo. Excellent. Well, Dr. Shuren stayed because he 
wanted to hear your testimony and that of the others that are 
with you today. So he is listening very intently.
    To Ms. Trunzo, you said that the device review program 
needs to, quote, ``go back to the basics'' in order to balance 
COVID-19 demands with the center's regular workload. How does 
MDUFA V help address the center's capacity gap, in your view?
    [Pause.]
    Ms. Eshoo. You need to unmute.
    [Pause.]
    Ms. Eshoo. Are we putting each other to sleep?
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Trunzo. So sorry.
    Ms. Eshoo. That is all right.
    Ms. Trunzo. I believe that the investment from MDUFA V that 
we have discussed in our testimony of about $1.78 billion in 
guaranteed funding allows for FDA to hire the additional FTEs 
needed so that there is sufficient resources and capacity for 
FDA to get back to basics.
    It is--if you look at the number of additional FTEs that 
FDA will get as a result of this investment, it will support 
the medical device review program and get us back to basics. 
Thank you.
    Ms. Eshoo. Thank you.
    To Ms. Wurzburger, do you think the term--and we discussed 
this earlier today with Dr. Shuren--do you think the term ``re-
manufacturing'' needs further clarification in statute, despite 
the FDA's draft guidance? And if so, why?
    Ms. Wurzburger. Thank you. Yes. MITA agrees with Dr. Shuren 
that clarification is needed, and the legislation 
recently[inaudible] Representatives Peters, Schrier, and Joyce 
provides that clarity.
    While the FDA guidance remains in draft form, there is 
vaule for providing greater clarity via statute for the 
activities that could significantly be for performance or 
safety specifications, or intended use of the device are clear.
    Additionally, the legislation--legislative proposal also 
includes provisions to provide public education and 
transparency or awareness of manufacturers' regulatory 
responsibilities, and to promote compliance. Thank you.
    Ms. Eshoo. Thank you.
    I am going to yield back my time and recognize our 
wonderful ranking member of our subcommittee, Mr. Guthrie, for 
your 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you. Before I get to my questions, 
earlier today--I am glad Dr. Shuren is still here--we were 
talking about device shortage, the proposal, and we are all for 
patient safety. That is premier, first and foremost, moving 
forward. And I think someone said--I don't remember who, 
exactly--the difference in pharmaceutical and device. And it is 
all about patient safety.
    So those--there is no difference between the two, except I 
know that, when we did the pharmaceutical, I was hearing a lot 
of calls from people who were--I had, like, people driving 
ambulances say they didn't have basic pharmaceuticals. They 
were canceling surgeries because they didn't have the basic 
pharmaceuticals. And when you looked at it, it was small. It 
was high volume, small margin, usually one supplier, and so 
forth.
    And we were really concerned that you just couldn't plan. 
It would be like you are getting 100,000--I am making the 
number up, but say you are supposed to get 100,000 a week from 
this supplier, and you get 50 one week, 120 one week, 30 next 
week, it depends on the disruptions. And that is what we were 
looking for, and that is what hearings are for. Maybe there is 
the same problem in device.
    But there is a difference. I am a manufacturing--not--
aluminum parts, not pharmaceutical. But there is a big 
difference in just not hitting your targets week in and week 
out, and all of a sudden committing to 100,000, and all of a 
sudden you need a million. I mean, that is kind of what 
happened with our pandemic. And that is a different problem. 
And it is just a different problem.
    I just want to--if you are going to expect somebody to go 
from 100,000 to 10 times, or 5 times, or however much they need 
there, the government has to buy the capacity or they have to 
store it. I mean, the storage. And that is something that we 
need to work through, and to make sure we have the--it 
correctly.
    But if the same problem is we are just not getting the 
devices on a regular basis, like the same thing, we need to 
address that, too. We need to address that, too. So that is 
what we need to sort out in the hearing.
    But the other thing I asked about this morning with Dr. 
Shuren is emerging signals. And again, we are all--patient 
safety is premier. But Ms. Trunzo, is there a way that you 
can--we can balance, or make sure that we have--we promote 
innovation and we get this right with the signaling without 
compromising patient safety?
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Guthrie. Ms. Trunzo? Did----
    Ms. Trunzo. Sorry. I believe there is----
    Mr. Guthrie. OK.
    Ms. Trunzo. I am sorry. I believe there is a way to balance 
the emerging signals program. I think it is really important 
that the program allows for, if FDA does detect an emerging 
signal, that there is an opportunity for the company to 
interact with FDA, because sometimes the company may have 
supplemental information that may be crucial to the evaluation 
process that FDA is undertaking.
    And I think the other important factor in an emerging 
signal program is the ability for FDA to--because it is 
emerging signals and it may not be confirmed, and if it later 
is confirmed, or later confirmed ought to be an emerging 
signal, then it would be important for the FDA to somehow 
communicate that to healthcare providers during that process. 
But there are----
    Mr. Guthrie. OK, on that--I should have muted my phone, so 
we don't get that--I mean my talk button, so I don't get the 
feedback, but I--but on that, Dr. Shuren, I thought, brought a 
valid point about how the timing that could take to get that 
done. If it is--is there a proposal that you are moving forward 
that would say, if it is an emergency situations--I understand 
that there is--FDA detect emerging signal, and you want--need 
the time to respond, because you want to make sure that you 
have the opportunity to, and I understand that and fully 
support that, except is there a criticalness to the time, the 
timing of some are and some aren't, I guess? And so how do we 
decide which ones are and which aren't?
    Ms. Trunzo. I believe that there--that is a delicate 
balance to achieve of the actual timing of that information. 
And I think that goes back to why it is so important.
    If FDA, through the data sources that FDA has access to, if 
FDA does determine that there might be an emerging signal, that 
initial interaction with the company is really--it should be 
part of the process, because the company may be able to provide 
additional information, which would then make that process more 
efficient and timely in the final determination that FDA will 
make.
    Mr. Guthrie. OK. I have one quick--if I can get it in 
really quickly. So the--Ms. Trunzo, the Breakthrough Device 
Program, we believe it has been innovative. And what 
improvements can we make to the path--this pathway to 
incentivize further investments in emerging technologies?
    Ms. Trunzo. Well, I think the breakthrough process has seen 
a lot of emphasis, most recently--especially after the 21st 
Century Cures Act, where the whole breakthrough process was 
well defined, there was a timeline built into the breakthrough 
designation process so that FDA had a specific time of 60 days 
to respond to requests for getting that breakthrough 
designation.
    And I think the investment in the Total Product Life Cycle 
Program that is part of MDUFA V, which will--once that 
designation is made, and that sponsor participates in this 
program, there are--will be significant resources to support 
the pre-submission process, such that when that final 
submission is made to FDA as a result of that investment of the 
additional resources to help the company through that process, 
that product will have a more efficient review and get into the 
hands of patients and healthcare providers.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thanks. My time is expired. I appreciate the 
answers, and I yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back. You know, on this 
issue of shortages, it is not just in the--on the 
pharmaceutical side. Lucile Packard Children's Hospital, right 
in the heart of my congressional district, reported to us that 
they have a heparin syringe shortage right now. So, you know, 
we have to look after all of this.
    And Dr. Shuren, you are here, and I know you are going to 
followup on that. So thank you.
    All right, the Chair now recognizes the gentleman from 
California, Mr. Cardenas, for your 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Cardenas. Thank you. Thank you very much, Madam 
Chairwoman and Ranking Member, I really appreciate this 
opportunity to talk to this second esteemed panel.
    In your--Dr. Kovacs, in your testimony you talk about the 
importance of the patient perspective, and share some stories 
from your own experience. Many times we talk about improving 
devices and therapies, and somewhere along the way the impact 
on real people can get lost.
    My first question for you is, how big of a difference can 
these devices make in a person's life?
    And when we talk about the expeditious approval of safe and 
effective devices, what does that actually look like for 
patients in their day-to-day lives?
    Dr. Kovacs. Thank you for the question. These devices range 
from lifesaving devices in what I do in cardiology, to a life-
altering devices: the difference between being able to work or 
not work, the difference to being able to be mobile or not 
mobile, the difference between being able to enjoy one's family 
or not. So these make huge differences.
    But the differences that they make to the patients, I would 
reemphasize, we should be asking the patients. What is the most 
important thing to the patient? What may be important to one 
patient in one situation may be different to another patient.
    This revolves around the whole science of patient-reported 
outcomes to the statistical analysis of these patient-reported 
outcomes, and to bringing these into part of the equation for 
designing the trials in the first place.
    So we need to--and as we said, we need to diversify the 
number of the types of patients that are in these trials to 
understand the differences in patient desires for the outcomes 
that they are hoping for these novel therapies.
    Mr. Cardenas. Thank you. You also note in your testimony 
the importance of emphasizing patient engagement in the medical 
device approval process. Among your recommendations to improve 
these processes, you advocate for ``patient input to inform 
clinical study design,'' which would reduce barriers for 
diverse patient samples.
    How would you recommend the FDA receive and operationalize 
this kind of input?
    Can you explain what this would look like on the ground, 
from the patient perspective?
    Dr. Kovacs. This would look like, first of all, engaging 
the patients, engaging that diverse patient population into the 
design of the studies, and the endpoints of the studies which 
determine the scientific rigor of the study.
    Is this--this goes all the way back to the definitions. 
What is a patient-reported outcome? Is it meaningful to be able 
to walk from--for 50 feet? Is it more meaningful to be able to 
walk for a mile? And those are nuanced, those required crisp 
data definitions, and they require careful analysis by the FDA, 
hopefully in conjunction with the patients and other experts.
    Mr. Cardenas. OK. So you are describing a collaboration of 
sorts, an understanding of what is going on with these studies, 
and getting feedback from the patient, and also FDA to be 
involved in that, as well?
    Dr. Kovacs. Correct. I hang around with a lot of movement 
disorders neurologists who tell me that when they--and they use 
telemedicine, they want to observe these patients with 
Parkinson's disease, for example, in their environment. And 
what that therapy does to their ability to function in their 
daily life is what is important to that patient. Not 
necessarily a biomarker or a test result, but what the how the 
patient actually functions.
    Mr. Cardenas. Well, thank you. In their own environment. 
Thank you very much.
    Why is it important to ensure patient input is elevated, 
and that diversity is a priority in the trial process?
    How much of an impact will this ultimately have on patient 
experience?
    Dr. Kovacs. The patients that we want to apply these 
therapies to--the patients in the trials that approved these 
devices should look like the patients that we intend them--they 
intend them to.
    We have numerous examples of unintended consequences of not 
including the right types of patients in clinical trials to not 
understand whether a device is effective in a significant 
proportion of our population. Women, for example, respond 
differently to device therapy than men, and we need to 
understand that going forward.
    Mr. Cardenas. Thank you very much. My time is expired.
    Thank you so much, Madam Chairwoman. I yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back. Thank you for 
participating in this part of our hearing today, Mr. Cardenas.
    The Chair is--oh, the chair is pleased to recognize the--go 
to Dr. Joyce?
    OK, back to you, Dr. Joyce. You are recognized for 5 
minutes for your questions, the gentleman from Pennsylvania.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, everyone, for 
being here at this hearing, which we recognize was originally 
convened at nine this morning.
    During the first panel we heard from Dr. Shuren--and Dr. 
Shuren, thank you for being here this afternoon, as well--on 
this committee and proposed expansion of shortage reporting on 
medical devices beyond the context of the public health 
emergency. My question is first for Ms. Trunzo.
    Can you please comment on the burden that this proposal 
would place on device manufacturers, particularly the impact it 
may have on small manufacturers, as well as what manufacturers 
do already to ensure supply chain continuity?
    [Pause.]
    Ms. Trunzo. I can start----
    Mr. Joyce. Ms. Trunzo----
    Ms. Trunzo. Yes, I can start with the latter. The--our--the 
companies take great efforts in managing their supply chains. 
It is an art and a science to manage those supply chains to 
ensure that there is not a shortage.
    As far as the burden goes of what is [inaudible], it 
depends on what is asked to be reported on, what kinds of 
information is part of the reporting, and does it apply to all 
medical devices or just a subset of medical devices, and does 
it go beyond reporting, beyond the public health emergency, or 
in advance of the public health emergency. So the burden is 
variable, depending upon the extent to which the reporting is 
required.
    Mr. Joyce. Well, specifically, beyond the context of the 
current public health emergency, would that add additional 
burdens?
    Ms. Trunzo. We believe that it would. We support--I will be 
very clear to you, first of all, that we are very much 
supportive of working with the committee on any kind of 
additional mandatory shortage reporting.
    But the way medical device manufacturers often--there are 
multiple manufacturers for a specific device type. And so what 
might not be a disruption in the supply chain for one 
manufacturer doesn't necessarily mean that there are--there is 
a shortage for that particular device type on it entirety.
    Having shortage reporting be in place at all times for all 
medical devices could very much be burdensome to our industry.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you.
    Mr. Leahey, I am going to ask you to weigh in on this, 
particularly the impact on small manufacturers to ensure the 
supply chain is ready, the impact and the burden of this 
reporting.
    Mr. Leahey. Thank you very much. Well, as Janet just said, 
you know, there are instances through the public health 
emergency where issues have arose.
    But I think it is important to recognize the difference 
between drugs and devices. For the overwhelming majority of 
medical devices, there are multiple companies selling competing 
devices, and that competition creates resiliency. And we have 
seen in global demand for devices needed to respond to the 
pandemic created supply challenges, no doubt, early in the 
pandemic. But industry has responded.
    We think the CARES Act, which allows HHS and the FDA to 
collect shortage information in advance and during the public 
health emergency, is appropriate. But our members would have 
concerns about broad new authorities to collect supply chain 
information for hundreds of thousands of devices on the market 
at--not at risk of supply chain disruption.
    Mr. Joyce. And I would like to turn to Dr. Kovacs. 
Clinically, I practiced medicine for 25 years, and my decision 
to go into medicine was because, at the age of six, I lost my 
5-year-old brother after an atrial septal defect repair, 
something which is now done as an outpatient, which is done by 
interventional cardiologists, and these young people who have 
atrial septal defects have this and are, literally, sent home 
within hours from the procedure.
    What is the impact of the ability to advance the 
development of medical devices, and how do those medical 
devices impact you in your clinical practice?
    Dr. Kovacs. The practice of cardiology--and I am sorry to 
hear about you're your sibling, but the--and Happy Doctors Day.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, sir. Happy Doctors Day.
    Dr. Kovacs. My specialty is one that is crucially dependent 
on this, and crucially dependent on innovation to advance this.
    As I mentioned two patients in my testimony, one who 
probably spent ten days in the hospital recovering from cardiac 
surgery, one who went home without a scar within 48 hours. That 
has ripple effects down the line entirely in hospital care, 
fewer hospital days, lower costs, less time in the hospital, 
less recovery time, less burden on the family to take care of a 
family member who has been incapacitated. The benefits go on 
and on.
    We need to continue to spur innovation. Cardiology is a 
particularly innovative sub-specialty, and we need to remove 
barriers to that innovation.
    Mr. Joyce. I thank you for your answer.
    And Madam Speaker, my time has expired, and I yield.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentleman yields back. I may be the 
chairwoman, but I know I am not Speaker.
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Eshoo. But thank you for the elevation for three 
seconds.
    The Chair is very pleased to recognize the ranking member 
of the full committee, Congresswoman McMorris Rodgers, 5 
minutes for your questions.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Trunzo, as medical device technology increasingly 
relies more on software updates and algorithm changes to 
improve performance, how can FDA ensure that patient safety is 
preserved, while also enabling these updates to be made in a 
timely manner?
    Ms. Trunzo. Look, I think that--I believe that one way in 
which that can be accomplished is with a pre-determined change 
protocol approach, where those medical device software medical 
devices are constantly being updated because of the nature of 
the device being a software base, that if there is a pre-
determined change protocol in place, it ensures that the 
manufacturer's company will be able to do those updates under a 
pre-approved protocol that FDA has pre-approved, and ensures 
the safety, and at the same time allows those--to be made in a 
safe manner. And I think that is the way to solve that problem.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you. As a--I would also like to ask--
the FDA currently has limited authority to collect information 
on potential device shortages during or in advance of a public 
health emergency.
    Is the experience of your member companies--or in the 
experience of your member companies, how has FDA used this data 
to prevent or mitigate shortages thus far?
    And that was for Ms. Trunzo and Mr. Leahey.
    Ms. Trunzo. Well, so the way--the information has been 
submitted to FDA as a result of the shortage reporting 
requirement during the public health emergency, and in advance 
of one.
    The way in which FDA uses that information is--we are not 
exactly sure how FDA uses the information and what actions FDA 
takes with that information. Presumably, there is an analysis 
of it. And then, once the information is published, there is a 
list published on the FDA website that identifies where the 
shortages are, the information that continues to be presented 
to FDA, how they analyze that. And then, when the--when that 
shortage no longer exists, and how they--how FDA changes that 
shortage reporting list, I think is not well--it is not well 
understood, from our perspective.
    Mrs. Rodgers. OK, OK, OK. Thank you.
    Mr. Leahey?
    Mr. Leahey. I would echo what Janet said. Obviously, there 
is a devine scope right now publicly available, but how that 
information is being analyzed, used to provide flexibility 
maybe for substitution in parts of which a shortage, I think 
that is an area where we don't have a lot of visibility, but 
FDA has been reaching out, I think, to industry with the group 
that is handling supply chain resiliency.
    So again, we are supportive of FDA having these 
conversations with industry, trying to work through these 
problems. But broad-based new authorities here are certainly of 
concern to our members.
    Mrs. Rodgers. OK. Are there--as a followup, are there 
certain types of medical devices for which you think it would 
be helpful for FDA to collect this information?
    Mr. Leahey. Again, I think the current list right now that 
exists related to products during a public health emergency--
you know, we know PPE, there were ventilator issues, other 
areas that likely could continue, and the Secretary, under the 
CARES authority, has the ability to continue this during a 
public health emergency or in advance of one.
    So I think the scope of the universe of products that FDA 
is looking at right now seems right size. If there are other, 
you know, targeted areas that we can have conversations around, 
I think we are open to that. But again, having something that 
is cascading that would, you know, apply to orthopedic implants 
and cardiovascular devices and everything across the sun just 
seems well beyond the scope of an efficient regulatory process.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Ms. Trunzo, would you care to add anything?
    [Pause.]
    Mrs. Rodgers. Maybe--oh, is she muted?
    Ms. Trunzo. I believe--yes, I believe that the current list 
that FDA has published for purposes of reporting shortages 
during the public health emergency is a sufficient and good 
list.
    Mrs. Rodgers. OK, OK. Thank you.
    Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
    Ms. Eshoo. The gentlewoman yields back. I am not aware of 
any other members that are----
    Mr. Guthrie. No, none----
    Ms. Eshoo. Not on the Republican side and not on the 
Democratic side. So let me thank the witnesses of our second 
panel.
    Dr. Kovacs, thank you so much. You gave wonderful 
testimony, all through the lens of your patients, and telling 
their stories. So, you know, the way you presented, the way you 
addressed this overall issue was made very real by--you 
personalized the testimony. We appreciate it very much, and 
also the patience of each one of you.
    So to Mr. Leahey, it is great to see you. Thank you for the 
work that you have done on this.
    To Ms. Trunzo, thank you for your testimony. Thank you for 
unmuting.
    And thank you to Ms. Wurzburger.
    You are all real pros. You know all of this, certainly in 
your lane, for whomever you are representing.
    But I think that, you know, the best thing that we learned 
today is that it was a combination of all, you know, the 
stakeholders, patients, the organizations that negotiated with 
FDA so that we can move this legislation forward.
    And also, we heard many things that were raised of what we 
have learned during the pandemic, and what we need to be really 
cognizant of as we move forward. That is very important, that 
we are wise enough to examine our shortcomings so that we--
another day, another time it won't be experienced again.
    So I have a request, unanimous consent, to enter the 
following document--we only have one--into the record. It is a 
letter from public interest and healthcare organizations.
    Mr. Guthrie. No objection.
    Ms. Eshoo. OK, so without objection, so ordered.
    Ms. Eshoo. And I think--is there anything else that we need 
to include at the end of the hearing?
    Members do have ten business days to submit additional 
questions for the record.
    So to the witnesses, please respond promptly if you receive 
questions from members.
    And at this time, the subcommittee is adjourned.
    [Material submitted for inclusion in the record follows:]


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