[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                        5G AND BEYOND: EXPLORING THE NEXT 
                               WIRELESS FRONTIER

=======================================================================

                            VIRTUAL HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATION AND 
                               
                               TECHNOLOGY                               

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             MARCH 16, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-74
                        
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                        


     Published for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce

                   govinfo.gov/committee/house-energy
                        energycommerce.house.gov
                        
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
59-697 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     

                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE

                     FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey
                                 Chairman
BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois              CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, Washington
ANNA G. ESHOO, California              Ranking Member
DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado              FRED UPTON, Michigan
MIKE DOYLE, Pennsylvania             MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas
JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois             STEVE SCALISE, Louisiana
G. K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina    ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio
DORIS O. MATSUI, California          BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky
KATHY CASTOR, Florida                DAVID B. McKINLEY, West Virginia
JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland           ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
JERRY McNERNEY, California           H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida
PAUL TONKO, New York                 BILL JOHNSON, Ohio
YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York           BILLY LONG, Missouri
KURT SCHRADER, Oregon                LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana
TONY rdenas., California             MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
RAUL RUIZ, California                RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina
SCOTT H. PETERS, California          TIM WALBERG, Michigan
DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan             EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia
MARC A. VEASEY, Texas                JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina
ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire         GARY J. PALMER, Alabama
ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois, Vice       NEAL P. DUNN, Florida
    Chair                            JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah
NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California    DEBBIE LESKO, Arizona
A. DONALD McEACHIN, Virginia         GREG PENCE, Indiana
LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware       DAN CRENSHAW, Texas
DARREN SOTO, Florida                 JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania
TOM O'HALLERAN, Arizona              KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota
KATHLEEN M. RICE, New York
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
KIM SCHRIER, Washington
LORI TRAHAN, Massachusetts
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
                                 ------                                

                           Professional Staff

                   TIFFANY GUARASCIO, Staff Director
                 WAVERLY GORDON, Deputy Staff Director
                  NATE HODSON, Minority Staff Director
             Subcommittee on Communications and Technology

                        MIKE DOYLE, Pennsylvania
                                 Chairman
JERRY McNERNEY, California           ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio
YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York             Ranking Member
MARC A. VEASEY, Texas                STEVE SCALISE, Louisiana
A. DONALD McEACHIN, Virginia         BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky
DARREN SOTO, Florida                 ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
TOM O'HALLERAN, Arizona              GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida
KATHLEEN M. RICE, New York           BILL JOHNSON, Ohio
ANNA G. ESHOO, California            BILLY LONG, Missouri
G. K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina    RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina
DORIS O. MATSUI, California, Vice    MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
    Chair                            TIM WALBERG, Michigan
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia
KURT SCHRADER, Oregon                JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina
TONY rdenas., California             JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah
ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois             CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, Washington 
ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota                   (ex officio)
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey (ex 
    officio)
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hon. Mike Doyle, a Representative in Congress from the 
  Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, opening statement................     2
    Prepared statement...........................................     5
Hon. Robert E Latta, a Representative in Congress from the State 
  of Ohio, opening statement.....................................     7
    Prepared statement...........................................     9
Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the 
  State of New Jersey, opening statement.........................    12
    Prepared statement...........................................    15
Hon. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, a Representative in Congress from 
  the State of Washington, opening statement.....................    17
    Prepared statement...........................................    19

                               Witnesses

Greg Guice, Director of Government Affairs, Public Knowledge.....    23
    Prepared Statement...........................................    26
Von Todd, Chief Executive of Corporate Strategy and Analytics, 
  HTC, Incorporated, Director, Competitive Carriers Association 
  Board Of Directors.............................................    34
    Prepared statement...........................................    36
Jayne Stancavage, Global Executive Director, Product and Digital 
  Infrastructure Policy, Intel Corporation.......................    43
    Prepared statement...........................................    45
Scott Bergmann, Senior Vice President, Regulatory Affairs, CTIA..    53
    Prepared statement...........................................    55
Mary L. Brown, Senior Director, Government Affairs, Cisco 
  Systems, Incorporated..........................................    67
    Prepared statement...........................................    69

                           Submitted Material

Letter of March 16, 2022,from 20 Wireless carriers, to Mr. 
  Pallone and Mrs. Rodgers, submitted by Mr. Doyle...............   120
Letter of March 16, 2022, from Katie McAuliffe, Executive 
  Director,Digital Liberty, to House Subcommittee on 
  Communications and Technology, submitted by Mr. Doyle..........   122

 
          5G AND BEYOND: EXPLORING THE NEXT WIRELESS FRONTIER

                              ----------                              


                       WEDNESDAY, MARCH 16, 2022

                  House of Representatives,
     Subcommittee on Communications and Technology,
                          Committee on Energy and Commerce,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:33 a.m. in 
the John D. Dingell Room, 2123 of the Rayburn House Office 
Building, and remotely via Cisco Webex online video 
conferencing, Hon. Michael F. Doyle, (chairman of the 
subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Doyle, McNerney, Clarke, Veasey, 
McEachin, Soto, O'Halleran, Rice, Eshoo, Butterfield, Matsui, 
Welch, Schrader, Cardenas, Kelly, Fletcher, Pallone (ex 
officio); Latta, Scalise, Guthrie (subcommittee ranking 
member), Kinzinger, Bilirakis, Johnson, Long, Hudson, Walberg, 
Carter, Curtis, and Rodgers (ex officio).
    Also present: Representative Joyce.
    Staff present: Parul Desai, FCC Detailee; Jennifer 
Epperson, Senior Counsel; Waverly Gordon, Deputy Staff Director 
and General Counsel; Jessica Grandberry, Staff Assistant; 
Tiffany Guarascio, Staff Director; Zach Kahan, Deputy Director 
Outreach and Member Service; Hank Kilgore, Policy Coordinator; 
Mackenzie Kuhl, Press Assistant; Jerry Leverich, Chief Counsel, 
Communications and Technology; Dan Miller, Professional Staff 
Member; Joe Orlando, Policy Analyst; Chloe Rodriguez, Clerk; 
Andrew Souvall, Director of Communications, Outreach, and 
Member Services; Johanna Thomas, Counsel; Kate Arey, Minority 
Content Manager and Digital Assistant; Sarah Burke, Minority 
Deputy Staff Director; Michael Cameron, Minority Policy 
Analyst, Consumer Protection and Commerce, Energy, Environment; 
William Clutterbuck, Minority Staff Assistant/Policy Analyst; 
Theresa Gambo, Minority Financial and Office Administrator; 
Jack Heretik, Minority Press Secretary; Nate Hodson, Minority 
Staff Director; Sean Kelly, Minority Press Secretary; Peter 
Kielty, Minority General Counsel; Emily King, Minority Member 
Services Director; Bijan Koohmaraie, Minority Chief Counsel, 
Oversight and Investigation Chief Counsel; Tim Kurth, Minority 
Chief Counsel, Consumer Protection and Commerce; Clare 
Paoletta, Minority Policy Analyst, Health; Olivia Shields, 
Minority Communications Director; Michael Taggart, Minority 
Policy Director; Everett Winnick, Minority Director of 
Information Technology; Evan Viau, Minority Professional Staff 
Member, Communications and Technology; and Kate O'Connor, 
Minority Chief Counsel, Communications and Technology.
    Mr. Doyle. The Subcommittee on Communications and 
Technology will now come to order.
    Today the Subcommittee on Communications and Technology is 
holding a hearing entitled, ``5G and Beyond: Exploring the Next 
Wireless Frontier.''
    Due to the COVID-19 public health emergency, members can 
participate in today's hearing either in person or remotely, 
via online video conferencing.
    In accordance with the updated guidance issued by the 
attending physician, members, staff, and members of the press 
present in the hearing room are not required to wear a mask, 
although you can do so if you want.
    For members participating remotely, your microphones will 
be set on mute for the purpose of eliminating inadvertent 
background noise. Members participating remotely will need to 
unmute your microphone each time you wish to speak. Please note 
that, once you unmute your microphone, anything that is said in 
Webex will be heard over the loudspeakers in the committee 
room, and subject to be heard by the livestream and C-SPAN.
    Since members are participating from different locations at 
today's hearing, all recognition of members, such as for 
questions, will be in the order of subcommittee seniority.
    Documents for the record can be sent to Joe Orlando at the 
email address we have provided to staff.
    Voice. Yes.
    Mr. Doyle. All documents will be entered into the record at 
the conclusion of the hearing.
    The Chair recognizes himself----
    Voice. Well, I thank you for that----
    Mr. Doyle. Is there--is that noise in the background?
    If someone doesn't have theirself muted, please mute your 
microphones until you are recognized.
    The Chair now recognizes himself for 5 minutes for an 
opening statement.

   OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE DOYLE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
         CONGRESS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

    Well, welcome, and thank you all for being here today. A 
special welcome to our witnesses, and I thank them for their 
contributions to this discussion.
    I am very glad to be holding this hearing on such an 
important issue. As the subcommittee with jurisdiction over 
spectrum and Federal and commercial spectrum management, I am 
heartened that the Communications and Technology Subcommittee 
has shown such bipartisan leadership and interest on this 
issue.
    Spectrum policy is not an issue on the top of the average 
consumer's mind, but it plays a significant role in their 
everyday lives: the average U.S. household has 25 connected 
devices; smartphone penetration is above 80 percent; and 
wireless device subscriptions outnumber the U.S. population. We 
use baby monitors and garage door openers; listen to the radio 
and watch TV using our mobile devices; and our factories, 
farms, and transportation systems are ever more connected, many 
of them wirelessly. All of these users are dependent on 
spectrum, and the American economy is dependent on spectrum.
    And as we push toward 100 percent broadband connectivity at 
home, spectrum will be necessary for customers, regardless of 
whether they have a wired or fixed wireless connection. So it 
is our job, as members of this subcommittee, to make sure 
spectrum policy continues to enable these uses and opens new 
opportunities for the next generation technologies and 
innovations.
    Fundamentally, we need to use our Nation's airwaves as 
efficiently as possible. With an eye on the exponential growth 
of wireless data usage, we know more spectrum will need to be 
made available for consumer use. This means the Federal 
Government, which still holds the majority of this country's 
spectrum, needs to use its spectrum allocations more 
efficiently, recognized spectrum sharing as a viable 
opportunity, and work cooperatively with neighboring commercial 
spectrum users.
    For Congress, we should recognize the spectrum demands of 
the Federal Government, and give agencies the tools they need 
in this process. With our commercial spectrum, we must achieve 
a balance of both licensed and unlicensed spectrum. It is 
important to make spectrum available to sustain the deployment 
of 5G and to pave the way for 6G. At the same time, we need to 
identify spectrum for unlicensed use to sustain the explosive 
traffic we have seen in Wi-Fi and to fuel the next generation 
of Wi-Fi, Wi-Fi 7.
    I believe the lower three gigahertz band presents an 
enormous opportunity for making additional, consumer-oriented 
spectrum available. The Spectrum Innovation Act strikes the 
right balance between Federal incumbent users' needs and the 
importance of their missions, and maximizing spectrum for 
consumer use. With additional spectrum reallocated to the 
private sector, new opportunities will arise for additional 
uses in both licensed and unlicensed spectrum bands. And I want 
to take a moment to thank Ranking Member Latta and his staff 
for the work they have been doing with my team to find a 
bipartisan path forward for this bill. I am looking forward to 
moving it with their support.
    Another item that needs swift action by Congress is the 
extension of the FCC's ability to conduct spectrum auctions. I 
think it would be a mistake for Congress to let this authority 
lapse. In addition to how spectrum is used, we also must look 
at how these spectrum allocation decisions are made, and it is 
imperative that we re-evaluate our country's spectrum 
management policies.
    Congress is taking steps, such as with the Spectrum 
Coordination Act, and NTIA and the FCC are acting, as well, as 
their announcement on increased cooperation demonstrates. So, 
with Ranking Member Latta, I recently laid out some principles 
that should help guide us.
    NTIA must continue to be recognized throughout the Federal 
Government as the entity tasked with balancing the needs and 
concerns of the Federal Government.
    Clear rules and expectations for all spectrum users will 
lead to better outcomes. These rules and processes should be 
based on science and engineering.
    And last, the Federal Government needs to speak with a 
clear, unified voice when making spectrum decisions.
    Recommitting ourselves to these principles will lead to 
better management policies and, ultimately, better outcomes for 
both the Federal and non-Federal users of spectrum. And while 
these are weighty topics, how we approach them will affect our 
constituents greatly, and it will also affect how our economy 
can function and grow.
    So I look forward to hearing the witnesses' expert 
testimony, and their thoughts and concerns--and the thoughts 
and concerns of my colleagues. And now--thank you to our 
panelists.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Doyle follows:]

                 Prepared Statement of Hon. Mike Doyle
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Doyle. And I am now yielding to my friend, Ranking 
Member Latta, for his opening statement.

  OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY LATTA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
                CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OHIO

    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, my 
friend. Thank you very much for holding today's hearing. And 
also I want to thank our witnesses for being with us today. It 
is so great to look out and see you all out, and your smiling 
faces today. So it is wonderful to be all in the same room 
together.
    For decades, the U.S. has pioneered innovative ways to 
manage one of our Nation's most valuable resources: access to 
the airwaves. Decisions on how best to utilize these airwaves 
to maximize their potential has led to the growth of Wi-Fi; 
multiple generations of mobile technology, from 2G to 5G; the 
app economy; and so much more. The massive benefits that these 
technologies have had have been truly transformational to our 
economy and our way of life.
    A recent report estimates that unlicensed spectrum 
generates over $95 billion per year in the connected technology 
market. I am a co-chair of the Wi-Fi Caucus, and when Wi-Fi was 
first created no one could have predicted the impact that it 
would have on our economy.
    The same is true for licensed spectrum use. In the 1990's 
Congress exclusively provided the FCC the authority to auction 
off a licenses to use portion a of the airwaves. Since then, 
the FCC has held over 100 auctions for various slices of the 
airwaves to power everything from 3G to the radio.
    In addition to ushering in a new way to harness the 
efficiency of the free market, the FCC auction authority has 
played a critical role in paving the way for new innovative 
services. By auctioning the licenses for certain portions of 
the airways, users have certainty that they can invest upwards 
of tens of billions of dollars in the infrastructure necessary 
to use those airwaves without fear of being interfered with. 
The last two auctions alone have netted over $100 billion to 
the U.S. Treasury.
    However, as more and more of the spectrum is being used, 
auctioning spectrum has become more complex. As new commercial 
uses are introduced, the possibility of those use cases raising 
the potential for harmful interference has put a spotlight on 
how the FCC makes such a decision.
    These concerns are magnified when Federal agencies are 
using a band adjacent to a new commercial user. Over the years 
we have seen challenges with how agencies coordinate their 
plans for introducing new services and studying the potential 
for harmful interference. As the Energy and Commerce Committee 
continues to build on its work to improve the spectrum 
management process, we should be looking at how these decisions 
will build trust in the engineering and certainty in the 
licensing process that, when a decision is made, all users can 
accept the result, not work to further undermine it.
    With the FCC's authority expiring at the end of the Fiscal 
Year to conduct an auction and issue licenses, it is important 
that the Energy and Commerce Committee review what has worked, 
what has not, and is able to provide necessary direction to the 
FCC as the spectrum issue becomes more difficult.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today on the 
opportunities and challenges that lay ahead for smartly 
managing our spectrum resources.
    Again, I want to thank our witnesses for being with us. I 
want to thank my friend, the chairman, for holding this hearing 
today.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Latta follows:]

                  Prepared Statement of Hon. Bob Latta
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Latta. And I would like to yield the remaining balance 
of my time to my good friend from Louisiana, Mr. Scalise.
    Mr. Scalise. I thank the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Latta, 
for yielding.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you for hosting--holding this hearing. 
I really appreciate the witnesses being here.
    When you look over the years, Congress, and especially this 
subcommittee and the Energy and Commerce Committee, have led 
the way in bringing forth bipartisan action to assert U.S. 
global leadership in wireless innovation. It is one of those 
times where we actually do come together to get some really 
good things done, and it starts right here in this room.
    Under the leadership of former FCC Chairman Pai with 
President Trump, the FCC auctioned off several spectrum bands 
for commercial use, leading to great consumer benefit and huge 
strides in innovation. Additionally, these auctions have 
generated billions of private-sector investment, with the most 
recent C-Band auction generating a record of more than $80 
billion in revenue.
    And by the way, that $80.9 billion that was generated far 
exceeded the Congressional Budget Office's estimates of 20 to 
35 billion. So they thought it would generate 20 to 35 billion, 
and with the private sector stepping up and putting forth their 
own capital, over $80 billion was generated. We want to see 
that continue, so it is critical that our Nation's spectrum 
management process work efficiently.
    As Congress considers reauthorizing the FCC's spectrum 
authority action, it is important to allow the FCC to complete 
pending auctions, as well--and you look at the 2.5 gigahertz 
band, that is one area--but also to continue to give the 
private sector even more opportunities to build out their 
networks.
    Moving forward, it is imperative we do what we can to avoid 
needless delays in deployment. And we also need to allow 
providers to operate in the spectrum that they have paid for, 
and encourage further investments so that America can continue 
to lead the world, while also heading off the threat posed by 
China. And this committee has taken specific action to address 
that, as well.
    Mr. Scalise. So I will look forward to hearing from the 
witnesses. And thank you again, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Latta, I yield back the balance of my time.
    Mr. Latta. Mr. Chair, we yield back the balance of our 
time.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now 
recognizes Mr. Pallone, chairman of the full committee, for 5 
minutes for his opening statement.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK PALLONE, Jr., A REPRESENTATIVE 
            IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY

    Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Chairman Doyle. This committee has 
a long tradition of working together in a bipartisan fashion to 
lay the groundwork for technological innovation in this 
country, and this hearing is no exception.
    Today we begin exploring the next frontier of wireless 
technology, and I believe it is more important than ever that 
we lay the foundation for our Nation to continue to lead the 
world in critical technological advancements.
    There is no question that our Nation's airwaves are the 
engine that has powered so much technological growth. Without 
them, we would not have wireless emergency alerts, the app 
economy, smartphones, messaging services, the Internet of 
Things, and, of course, drones. So just imagine that for a 
moment. So much of this technology we rely on every day simply 
would not exist.
    These are remarkable achievements, but our past success 
does not always dictate the present or the future. Our nation's 
global leadership in providing consumers with access to 4G 
wireless technology and Wi-Fi does not guarantee we will see 
the same result in 5G or next generation wireless technology 
such as 6G and Wi-Fi 7. The stakes could not be higher. Failure 
to replenish the commercial spectrum pipeline risks the United 
States falling behind our counterparts across the globe, 
including China, in producing cutting-edge consumer innovations 
and enhancing our national security capabilities.
    And since transitioning our airwaves to allow for new uses 
takes time, we have to start to put the necessary pieces 
together now, so that the U.S. can be ready for the wireless 
technologies of tomorrow. And this is especially important, 
because China has already reportedly made three times as much 
mid-band spectrum available for 5G, compared to the United 
States. Mid-band spectrum delivers the best of both worlds when 
it comes to wireless broadband, faster speeds, less buffering, 
and access to a signal indoors. And these are the airwaves that 
will fuel advancements in telehealth services, public safety, 
manufacturing, and supply chain management.
    But it is not enough to simply make our airwaves available 
for commercial use. We must have the ability to place these 
radio waves in the hands of innovators who can put them to good 
use for the public's benefit. So since 1994, the Federal 
Communications Commission has accomplished this feat through 
its spectrum auction program and through truly remarkable and 
innovative, unlicensed spectrum policies.
    The FCC's auction program has been a resounding success, 
raising $200 billion in Federal revenue since its inception. 
And now the FCC spectrum auction authority must be extended, or 
it will expire in about six months. And without an extension, 
the FCC may not be able to complete at least one mid-band 
spectrum auction, and auctions that have already occurred may 
not be able to properly close.
    And so, for these reasons, I urge my colleagues to work in 
a bipartisan way to extend this authority once again. We must 
do this well before the FCC begins its planned auction of the 
2.5 gigahertz band in July. Otherwise, the auction will be 
disrupted.
    And Congress would also be able to put auction proceeds to 
good use by funding priorities, like promoting digital equity, 
next generation 911, or the replacement of suspect 
communications equipment.
    So we must also ensure that the Federal Government speaks 
with one voice when it comes to our airwaves, and that is why 
Chairman Doyle and Ranking Member Latta's Spectrum Innovation 
Act is so key. It will help clarify how important spectrum 
auctions are on the horizon should operate to keep our 
processes streamlined (sic).
    I am also pleased to see that the new leaders at the 
National Telecommunications and Information Administration and 
the FCC have already started making some headway toward 
ensuring the two agencies speak with one voice. Both agencies 
recently announced a new spectrum coordination initiative that 
aligns with legislation this committee unanimously reported to 
the House back in November. And this initiative will also 
produce a national spectrum strategy, which I strongly support. 
And creating this important guidepost will better position NTIA 
and the FCC to meet the current and future spectrum demands of 
consumers, commercial carriers, and Federal agencies alike.
    So obviously, we have a lot to discuss today as we explore 
the next wireless frontier. And I welcome our panelists, and 
look forward to hearing from them.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pallone follows:]

             Prepared Statement of Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr.
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Pallone. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now 
recognizes Mrs. Rodgers, the ranking member of the full 
committee, for 5 minutes for her opening statement.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, A 
    REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF WASHINGTON

    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Before I begin, we just heard from President Zelenskyy, a 
strong and courageous leader for the freedom-loving people of 
Ukraine. America must stand and support Ukraine's call for 
freedom and self-determination--and that includes countering 
Putin's evil and unjust attacks by ending his ability to use 
energy to fund this war--by flipping the switch on for energy 
dominance in America and for our allies. This committee has the 
opportunity to lead and to answer President Zelenskyy's call to 
do more, and I continue to urge us to do that.
    Now to the topic of today, the success of our Nation's 
wireless future. It depends on good management of our spectrum 
resources. The United States is the world leader in wireless 
technology. We led in deploying 4G. And today our witnesses and 
our wireless carriers are working to make sure we lead in fifth 
generation technology.
    I just climbed a 180-foot tower with Commissioner Brendan 
Carr, and made the first 5G call in eastern Washington. 5G is 
going to be a game changer for rural communities. To win the 
future, we must continue to make spectrum available, promote 
innovation, and keep up with the demands for new and improved 
wireless technologies.
    The efficient use of our spectrum resources will be 
essential to keep up with the demand for wireless devices. 
Under President Trump, the FCC made an unprecedented amount of 
spectrum available for commercial use, including over 3,400 
megahertz of licensed millimeter wave spectrum, 280 megahertz 
of licensed spectrum in the C-Band, and an additional 100 
megahertz of valuable mid-band spectrum in the 3450 to 3550 
megahertz band. This brought in over 100 billion. Wireless 
carriers also worked closely with Federal incumbents and the 
NTIA on developing technology in the 5.--or 3.5 gigahertz band 
known as the Citizens Broadband Radio Service band, the CBRS, 
which auctioned license spectrum, while protecting Navy radars 
using the frequencies.
    The FCC also made 1,200 megahertz of unlicensed spectrum 
available in the 6 gigahertz band. We are starting to see next 
generation technologies being developed to utilize that 
spectrum. We must build on this success.
    Providing certainty to both industry and government 
agencies for spectrum reallocations and auctions is a top 
priority. This includes addressing the FCC's expiring auction 
authority to ensure auctions such as the 3.45 and the 2.5 
gigahertz bands are successful and able to be completed, and 
making sure that costly fights like we have had between the 
FCC, NTIA, FAA, and industry over C-Band do not become the 
norm. Without that certainty, we cannot expect industry to 
invest the billions of dollars needed to clear spectrum bands 
in the future.
    To maintain U.S. leadership in wireless technology we need 
a national spectrum strategy that outlines goals, objectives, 
and actions that can be taken by Federal agencies and industry 
to ensure the most efficient use of spectrum. That said, even 
with a national strategy, repurposing spectrum is becoming more 
difficult. It is crucial that the FCC, NTIA, Federal agencies, 
and wireless stakeholders work together.
    Federal agencies have legitimate spectrum needs for their 
systems. However, the timeline for upgrading their systems to 
be more efficient does not keep pace with commercial 
technology. As spectrum repurposing has become more difficult, 
many Federal agencies have resorted to public fearmongering, 
rather than work through established spectrum management 
process. During recent high-profile spectrum disputes we have 
seen agencies, such as the Department of Transportation, 
attempt to assert its authority over commercial spectrum bands 
where their agencies do not hold licenses.
    These costly interagency battles threaten our ability to 
lead the world in NextGen communications. We must have trust in 
the expertise at NTIA and the FCC, and confidence in the 
established process as we continue to push for stable spectrum 
pipelines.
    Meanwhile, adversaries like China and Russia are trying to 
undermine our leadership. China is actively trying to use 
international standard-setting institutions to set standards 
that favor their technology over ours. We must work together to 
enhance the participation by U.S. companies in setting 
international standards. My colleague, Mr. Walberg, is leading 
legislation that requires NTIA to do just that.
    I also strongly support Doreen Bogdan-Martin's candidacy to 
become the Secretary General of the International 
Telecommunications Union. Doreen is running against a candidate 
from the Russian Federation. Given recent atrocities by Russia, 
it is essential that we stand behind Doreen, and help keep the 
internet open and safe.
    [The prepared statement of Mrs. Rodgers follows:]

            Prepared Statement of Hon. Cathy McMorris Rodger
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mrs. Rodgers. I look forward to hearing from all our 
witnesses. I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlewoman yields back.
    The Chair would like to remind members that, pursuant to 
committee rules, all Members' written opening statements shall 
be made part of the record.
    So now it gives me great pleasure to introduce our 
witnesses for today's hearing, starting with Greg Guice, 
director of government affairs, Public Knowledge; Von Todd, 
chief executive of corporate strategy and analytics, HTC, 
Incorporated, and director of the Competitive Carriers 
Association board of directors; Jayne Stancavage, global 
executive director, product and digital infrastructure policy 
with Intel; Scott Bergmann, senior vice president, regulatory 
affairs, CTIA; and Mary Brown, senior director, government 
affairs, Cisco Systems, Incorporated.
    As you know, you all have 5 minutes for your opening 
statements. There is a little box there in front of you that, 
when you have 1-minute left, will turn yellow. And then, at the 
end of 5 minutes, it will turn red. And if you speak longer 
than that, a trap door opens up under your chair, and you are 
whisked down to the Rayburn subway and out of here.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Doyle. So let's try to stay to the 5-minute rules, and 
we will try to enforce it up here with our colleagues, too. So, 
with that, I want to thank everyone.
    And Mr. Guice, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.


STATEMENT OF GREG GUICE, DIRECTOR OF GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS, PUBLIC 
KNOWLEDGE; VON TODD, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF CORPORATE STRATEGY AND 
 ANALYTICS, HTC, INCORPORATED, DIRECTOR, COMPETITIVE CARRIERS 
   ASSOCIATION BOARD OF DIRECTORS; JAYNE STANCAVAGE, GLOBAL 
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PRODUCT AND DIGITAL INFRASTRUCTURE POLICY, 
   INTEL CORPORATION; SCOTT BERGMANN, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, 
   REGULATORY AFFAIRS, CTIA; MARY L. BROWN, SENIOR DIRECTOR, 
        GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS, CISCO SYSTEMS, INCORPORATED

                    STATEMENT OF GREG GUICE

    Mr. Guice. Thank you, Chairman Doyle and Chairman Pallone, 
Ranking Members Latta and McMorris Rodgers, thank you very much 
for inviting me to testify here today. I really do appreciate 
it. My name is Greg Guice, and I am director of government 
affairs at Public Knowledge. We are a public interest 
organization dedicated to promoting freedom of expression, and 
open internet, and access to affordable communications and 
creative works.
    As members of this committee are well aware, we are in the 
midst of a connectivity revolution. As more devices and 
services demand spectrum resources, the policy to satisfy that 
demand is becoming increasingly challenging. To meet that 
challenge, we must first use all of the tools in the toolbox to 
provide access--that is licensed, unlicensed, open access, 
sharing.
    Second, as this committee just recognized, we have to 
insist on expert coordination led by the FCC and NTIA.
    And third, we need to emphasize the public interest, first 
and foremost, in our spectrum policy.
    Supporting those structural components will allow 
policymakers to address the spectrum needs to secure 
opportunities for all Americans, and to maintain our collective 
global competitiveness.
    As Ranking Member McMorris Rodgers just noted, demand for 
connected devices and access efforts to meet that demand means 
that there are few greenfield opportunities remaining. Everyone 
has to work to enhance efficient use of spectrum, and 
policymakers will need to focus on issues such as spectrum 
utilization by incumbents and tightening of technical 
parameters, including receivers.
    In addition, we need to use all the tools in the toolbox 
when it comes to access. Back in 2009 and 2010, when I was 
honored to serve as counsel on this committee under then-
Chairman Waxman, he, Representative Doyle, Representative 
Eshoo, and a number of other folks on this committee made the 
case that we do not need to frame our spectrum policy in terms 
of a fight between licensed and unlicensed. Rather, they were 
calling then for what we now know is the sounder framing, a mix 
of access regimes that promotes spectrum efficiency and a 
healthy, vibrant wireless sector.
    An example of that--an example that brings that into focus 
is the FCC-CBRS proceeding. There, the FCC, through great 
coordination, chose a three-tiered access regime that brought--
that balanced the needs of protecting ongoing incumbent use, 
while creating opportunities for commercial license services, 
as well as open access spectrum use. They did it all without 
interference. CBRS and other successful sharing efforts show 
that policymakers, when they do focus, should focus on 
remaining open to the idea of exploring the full suite of 
access regimes when considering any spectrum band.
    As members of this committee, you are also well aware of 
the importance of spectrum coordination and interagency 
process. As Chairman Doyle and Ranking Member Latta wrote in 
their op ed last week, it is essential that the interagency 
coordination process be followed, and that it be made clear 
NTIA is the agency to hear concerns of Federal agencies and the 
agency that is meant to address those concerns.
    We are also encouraged, as was just recognized, that the 
FCC and NTIA are working on their spectrum coordination update. 
They have re-established high-level meetings, they are updating 
the memorandum of understanding, promoting evidence-based 
spectrum compatibility analysis, and developing a nation--
national spectrum policy. All of this is critical to restoring 
our interagency process.
    As this committee and the FCC explores new spectrum 
opportunities, we must ensure that every allocation serves the 
public interest, convenience, and necessity. This means more 
than simply making spectrum available for new services. It 
ensures--it includes ensuring that members of our society, all 
members, including rural communities, low-income communities, 
and communities of color, enjoy the benefits of these spectrum 
technologies, both as consumers and as creators and innovators.
    Simply put, spectrum policy should serve the public 
interest, as Congress has directed.
    I wanted to spend some time this morning discussing access 
regimes, inter-agency coordination, and the need to focus on 
public interest, because those elements are key to the next 
phase of exploring the wireless frontier. In my written 
testimony I go over five opportunities in detail, but just to 
briefly mention them here in closing--so that I don't fall 
through the trap--to advance the public interest need, Congress 
should renew the FCC's auction authority, and should support 
public interest needs with those auction revenues.
    The committee should consider how auction revenues could 
advance public interest objectives such as digital equity, 
something Chairman Pallone just recognized, and that Public 
Knowledge and other public interest groups have joined in 
coalition to support as part of our Airwaves for Equity 
campaign. And that doesn't mean in NG911, a dedicated wireless 
fund, and other public interest needs can't be satisfied, as 
well.
    To promote sharing opportunities, the committee should look 
at the lower three gigahertz band. The Spectrum Innovation Act 
is a great opportunity to do that work, and we look forward to 
working with you as that moves forward in this committee.
    We also hope this committee will encourage the FCC to think 
about opening up the 12 gigahertz band for a variety of uses 
that protect the incumbent satellite opportunities, but also 
allow for a greater mixed use of that band so that we can fully 
utilize that.
    And finally, I think this committee can support sensing 
technologies and advances in incumbent and forming capabilities 
that promote sharing, as well.
    Thank you for your consideration. I am pleased to answer 
any questions. Sorry to go over time.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Guice follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Doyle. I was just going to say your chair was looking 
lower as you were speaking.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Doyle. Mr. Todd, you are recognized for 5 minutes.


                     STATEMENT OF VON TODD


    Mr. Todd. Chairman Doyle, Republican Leader Latta, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify. I am pleased to represent HTC and serve on the board 
of directors for the Competitive Carriers Association.
    HTC is the Nation's largest telecommunications cooperative, 
where our local subscribers are our owners. We call them our 
members. For over 70 years, HTC has been the leading 
communications provider for coastal South Carolina. I am 
excited about the role that wireless plays in our future and 
HTC's efforts to bring the latest communication services to our 
members throughout our service area. And while the potential of 
wireless services, including 5G and beyond, is limitless, a key 
input needed to make that potential a reality is spectrum.
    Carriers depend on sustainable and predictable access to 
spectrum, a finite resource. Congress can support efforts to 
ensure that all Americans have access to the latest wireless 
services in three ways: first, by extending the FCC spectrum 
auction authority; second, by bringing additional bands of 
spectrum to the market for licensed commercial use; and third, 
making sure that winning auction bidders can swiftly and 
efficiently put those spectrum resources to use to serve 
consumers.
    HTC was formed in 1952, and has over 700 employees working 
to provide the latest services to our over 100,000 local 
members. We support local economic development and community 
and educational programs. Even further, HTC returns excess 
revenues earned back to our members in the form of capital 
credits, totaling over $153 million today. We work hard to meet 
the needs and provide a high level of service to all of our 
members, serving a geographically and demographically diverse 
region that stretches from urban tourism destinations to rural 
farm lands.
    The COVID-19 pandemic highlighted the urgent need for 
access to broadband services and, as a cooperative, HTC made 
efforts to provide connectivity as part of our COVID response, 
with bill credits, installing new community and school 
hotspots, and participating in the EBB program, now the 
Affordable Connectivity Program. I appreciate and thank the 
members of this committee for creating and maintaining this 
important tool to put connectivity within reach for more of our 
community.
    HTC provides a full range of communications services to our 
members, and wireless connectivity is an important tool in our 
portfolio, and depends on our ability to access spectrum 
resources. Wireless services are particularly important to 
reach more rural and impoverished areas, especially where 
larger companies will not expand to provide service, as well as 
more urban areas, where larger companies have us locked out.
    The spectrum needed to provide reliable wireless 
connectivity is only available through license from the Federal 
Government, most typically obtained through FCC-led spectrum 
auctions or through secondary market transactions. Importantly, 
FCC auctions allow for things like smaller license sizes. This 
is critical for smaller companies like ours.
    To continue to bring the latest services to market, we need 
to know that additional spectrum will be made available, and we 
need to make sure that Congress extends the FCC spectrum 
auction authority. This year's 2.5 gigahertz auction will make 
spectrum available in our markets. Gaining access to this 
spectrum would provide us with increased confidence in our 
ability to meet the future data needs of our subscribers, and 
enhance our ability to compete.
    Expansion of auction authority will ensure that carriers 
like HTC have the certainty needed to fully participate in the 
upcoming 2.5 gigahertz auction. We strongly encourage Congress 
and the FCC to maintain a predictable, sufficient supply of 
spectrum to meet growing wireless demands, including in low, 
mid, and high bands, and in ways that allow smaller carriers to 
meaningfully participate.
    Finally, while the FCC should make additional spectrum 
bands available for wireless use, the interagency spectrum 
coordination process should be improved. I thank members of 
this committee for working to enhance and restore faith in the 
process, including efforts to update the memorandum of 
understanding between the FCC and NTIA.
    In closing, 5G and other next generation wireless 
technologies will rapidly expand connectivity and improve many 
aspects of everyday life. To ensure our networks can expand and 
meet the demands of the next wireless frontier, greater access 
to spectrum is essential.
    Thank you, and I welcome your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Todd follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Mr. Todd.
    The Chair now recognizes Ms. Stancavage for 5 minutes.


                 STATEMENT OF JAYNE STANCAVAGE


    Ms. Stancavage. Chairman Doyle, Ranking Member Latta, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me today to 
provide a global perspective on spectrum policies to enable 5G, 
next generation Wi-Fi, and 6G.
    I am responsible for Intel's global policy efforts related 
to digital infrastructure, including connectivity, 5G, Wi-Fi, 
and 6G, AI, AVs, and IoT, including smart cities and 
healthcare. I have extensive experience working in--at the 
national, regional, and global level, including the ITU and the 
World Radio Communication Conferences.
    Intel is one of only three semiconductor manufacturers in 
the world using advanced nodes. Intel semiconductor products 
are foundational to personal, cloud, quantum, and high-
performance computing, AI, IoT, AVs, and most importantly for 
today's hearing, 5G and Wi-Fi. 5G runs on Intel. We are a 
leading--a silicon provider for infrastructure. And Intel is 
also a leader in Wi-Fi and Bluetooth technology solutions for 
the PC market. Intel plays an active role throughout the 
wireless technology lifecycle, from developing wireless 
standards to enable infrastructure and end user devices.
    With respect to spectrum pipeline considerations, it is 
crucial to replenish the U.S. spectrum pipeline for mobile 
broadband technologies in low, mid, and high bands to meet 
near-term and long-term deployment goals for consumers and a 
wide range of businesses. As FCC Chairwoman Rosenworcel 
recently stated, for 6G we need to start planning now to 
identify spectrum in the 7 to 15 gigahertz range. 6G may also 
utilize high bands, including bands above 95 gigahertz, as well 
as low bands.
    Replenishing the spectrum pipeline requires not just 
deciding which bands to study, but also ensuring the timely 
results of study and commercial availability of the spectrum, 
including bands, for example, such as the lower 3 gigahertz 
bands. Making decisions on spectrum in a timely manner is 
crucial to enabling a U.S. leadership role in wireless 
globally. For example, the FCC's decision to open the 6 
gigahertz spectrum for Wi-Fi has been transformative, with over 
60 countries following the U.S. lead.
    So what is a timely manner? To provide some perspective on 
this issue, the ITU targeted completion of 5G high-band 
spectrum process in November 2019. To enable commercialization, 
the Intel team completed our internal analysis of the status of 
availability, as well as technical characteristics 4 years 
prior to that, in September 2015. The FCC issued its first 
report and order making high-band spectrum available over 3 
years before the target date. Over the next few years, other 
leading countries also took steps on 5G spectrum. As a result 
of the FCC's early action, when the international treaty 
deliberations occurred much of U.S. high-band spectrum was 
harmonized for use for mobile broadband technologies at the 
World Radio Communication Conference 2019.
    For 6G the process is scheduled to be completed in 2030. 
Looking back at the previous timeline, the question I have is, 
do we think the U.S. is on track to make spectrum available for 
6G by around mid-2016--26, sorry, we will get an extra ten 
years. Unless we move rapidly now, the U.S. will not be in a 
position to take a leadership role to help define which 
spectrum ranges will be utilized globally for 6G.
    Moving on to the importance of inter-agency cooperation--
coordination, NTIA must be empowered to represent the Federal 
agencies to ensure, together with the FCC, that the Nation's 
spectrum resources are managed in the public interest.
    Additionally, extension of the FCC's spectrum auction 
authority will be important for continued U.S. broadband 
deployment efforts.
    Finally, despite the crucial nature of semiconductors 
underpinning all of this technology, America has lost 
significant share of semiconductor production to Asia over the 
last 30 years, creating a 30 percent cost disadvantage for 
chip-making in the U.S. Federal investment is urgently needed 
to reverse this erosion by leveling the playing field for 
America's semiconductor industry. Congress took the first step 
by authorizing the CHIPS for America Act early last year. And 
while Intel is doing its part to invest in American technology 
leadership, Congress must finish the job by conferencing the 
bills containing CHIPS Act funding as soon as possible. This 
investment will bolster the U.S. semiconductor capacity that 
underpins the deployment of 5G and other digital 
infrastructure.
    Thank you for holding a hearing on this important topic, 
and we look forward to working with the committee, the FCC, 
NTIA, and other Federal agencies to ensure the spectrum 
pipeline continues to flow to support U.S. broadband 
development and deployment.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Stancavage follows:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Bergmann, you are recognized for 5 minutes.


                  STATEMENT OF SCOTT BERGMANN


    Mr. Bergmann. Chairman Doyle, Ranking Member Latta, members 
of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be with you 
and testify today. I am Scott Bergmann, and on behalf of CTIA 
and the wireless industry, I want to thank you for your focus 
on creating smart spectrum policies for 5G and our country's 
future.
    In particular, we commend the Committee for its 
longstanding practice of identifying specific bands for the FCC 
to auction. For example, in the 2020 Beat CHINA for 5G Act and 
the Act of 2018.
    Fueled by a remarkable record of investment, 5G wireless 
broadband networks are transforming the way that we live and 
work. 5G is also helping to protect our planet. According to a 
recent Accenture study, 5G will enable a 20 percent 
contribution toward our Nation's carbon emission reduction 
targets, helping the country to meet our climate change goals. 
And now fixed wireless 5G, with its expanded capabilities, is 
helping to bridge the digital divide and bring competitive 
choice to the home broadband market.
    Of course, every benefit that we are experiencing with 5G 
in the U.S.--expanding digital inclusion, job creation, smart 
cities, and improvements in public safety, healthcare, and our 
environment--is predicated on the availability of spectrum. 
With demand for fixed and mobile 5G services increasing 
exponentially, we need to free up additional spectrum, 
especially licensed mid-band.
    FCC Chairwoman Rosenworcel should be commended for moving 
quickly on the 3.45 gigahertz auction last year, as directed by 
this committee. And her recent announcement of the 2.5 
gigahertz auction is a welcome sign. After this auction, 
however, the spectrum pipeline goes empty.
    In the meantime, other nations understand that global 
leadership in wireless hinges on access to spectrum. Leading 
nations are making available, on average, approximately 650 
megahertz of licensed mid-band, more than twice what we have in 
the U.S. today. We are playing catch-up. But with the right 
policies, we can maintain our global wireless leadership. We 
offer to the committee today four recommendations to keep the 
U.S. as the global leader in wireless.
    First, the FCC's auction authority is slated to expire in 
September, and congressional action is needed to ensure that 
the agency can auction and license spectrum that will deliver 
5G to U.S. consumers and businesses. Auctions have proven to be 
the bedrock of 5G and U.S. mobile wireless networks. Since 
1993, when Congress established our first-in-the-world spectrum 
auction authority, it has never allowed that authority to 
lapse. On five occasions Congress has granted broad auction 
authority, and in all but one--a short-term, 1-year extension--
it has used these opportunities to direct auctions of specific 
bands. CTIA urges Congress to do the same this year.
    Second, it is in our national interest to identify a 
spectrum pipeline of bands that can be auctioned for exclusive 
licensed use. The lower 3 gigahertz band is a top priority. 
This band is adjacent to existing full-power commercial 
spectrum, and offers the ability to provide large channels, 
making it an ideal fit for Congress--for 5G. And Congress can 
now take steps to streamline this access. And we support the 
Spectrum Innovation Act, which would enhance the process to 
bring that critical band to auction.
    Congress should also take steps to identify and set clear 
deadlines for future access to other mid-band spectrum, as well 
as low and high bands, at the same time that it extends auction 
authority. Congress has long leveraged congressionally directed 
spectrum auctions to advance other key national priorities, 
including deficit reduction and FirstNet. We, of course, defer 
to the committee on how auction proceeds should be spent, and 
welcome the opportunity to collaborate.
    We would note that Chairwoman Rosenworcel recently proposed 
using proceeds for NG911 purposes. That is an important goal, 
and worthy of all our support. Paired with a clear pipeline of 
5G-friendly spectrum options, such an approach could provide a 
much-needed boost to our Nation's 911 system and our wireless 
leadership.
    Third, CTIA supports calls for a national spectrum 
strategy, which can help to meet this challenge and provide 
guideposts for advancing US 5G leadership.
    Finally, there is much that we can do to revitalize a 
unified government voice on spectrum management. While the U.S. 
Government spectrum process generally works well, it broke down 
in the C-Band altimeter debate. We commend the recent FCC NTIA 
Spectrum Coordination Initiative as an important first step.
    As a Nation, we can and must do better. Thank you again for 
the opportunity to testify, and I look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Bergmann follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Brown, you are recognized for 5 minutes.


                   STATEMENT OF MARY L. BROWN


    Ms. Brown. Thank you, Chairman Doyle, Ranking Member Latta, 
and members of the subcommittee. My name is Mary Brown, and I 
am here to provide you with Cisco Systems's views on the future 
of wireless. Thank you for the invitation to testify.
    Cisco Systems is a $49 billion global provider of IP-based 
networking equipment, solutions, and services located in San 
Jose, California. Our customer base spans enterprise customers, 
governments, and service providers. In wireless, Cisco offers 
Wi-Fi and private 5G solutions. Spectrum is vital to all our 
customers.
    Thanks to the leadership from Congress, the United States 
finds itself in the enviable position of being a technology 
leader in both unlicensed and licensed technology. Not only 
does this mean that U.S. consumers get the best, and get it 
first, but companies domestic and foreign see the U.S. as a 
place where advanced technologies are developed and deployed. 
Wi-Fi is a prime example of a technology that has benefited 
from congressional and FCC leadership, and here are three 
recent statistics that prove it.
    Annual U.S. revenues for the sale of unlicensed devices are 
approaching $100 billion annually, while the total economic 
value of Wi-Fi in the United States will reach as much as 1.6 
trillion by 2025.
    The dollars are big, but the number of devices is even 
larger. Comcast reported last fall that its customers are 
connecting nearly one billion devices on its network alone. In 
the 2018 MOBILE NOW Act, Congress declared as a matter of 
Federal policy the FCC must provide for unlicensed spectrum. In 
2020 the FCC opened 1,200 megahertz of unlicensed spectrum in 
the 6 gigahertz band, paving the way for a new 6 gigahertz 
generation of Wi-Fi.
    As broadband networks increase in speed, whether 5G, fixed 
or mobile, cable, fiber, or satellite, so too must Wi-Fi that 
operates at the edge. Wi-Fi is also the most widely deployed 
spectrum technology in American business; 5G will soon become 
part of that enterprise story. And at Cisco, we are looking 
forward to enabling a convergence of Wi-Fi and 5G for our 
enterprise customers.
    For 6G, the Alliance of--for Telecommunications Industry 
Solutions, a North American standards organization, has 
launched the Next G Alliance, enabling the U.S. to develop a 
consensus vision on what it hopes 6G will uniquely accomplish.
    Turning to the question of spectrum coordination, on 
government agency disagreements there is probably one 
unfortunate issue upon which we can all agree: we have not 
found that happy place in spectrum policy decisionmaking, where 
collaboration reigns over confrontation. While my written 
testimony contains several suggestions, here are two points 
that are most important.
    First, Congress should make clear to NTIA and to the 
executive branch, generally, that it wants NTIA to be the lead 
agency on spectrum matters.
    Second, the recently revised FCC NTIA memorandum of 
understanding is an important development that we should all 
celebrate, underscoring the importance of agencies working 
together.
    On auction reauthorization, Congress has maintained FCC 
auction authority since it was first adopted in 1993, and it 
should renew that authority this year, as Congress and the FCC 
continue to work on more spectrum for 5G and, ultimately, 6G.
    Many continue to think of auctions as simply a budget 
reconciliation tool. It is true that over the decades auctions 
have amassed over $175 billion, enabling spending on a variety 
of important public interest programs. However, thinking about 
auctions narrowly, as a vehicle that puts cash into the Federal 
budget ATM, misses the mark. Far more important is the economic 
value, measurable in hundreds of billions of dollars of 
contributions to the GDP created by the networks that have been 
built as a result of auctions.
    Auctions serve other important purposes. In 2012 Congress 
authorized the first incentive auction. This new form of 
auction provided a much-needed tool to the FCC as it began its 
work of transitioning spectrum allocations from 20th century 
technologies to 21st century ones.
    In conclusion, renewing auction authority remains highly 
relevant to 5G and 6G networks. Incentive auction authority is 
important to help us transition efficiently from old 
allocations to new ones. NTIA needs to be deemed the lead 
agency on spectrum within the executive branch, and spectrum 
policy should continue to enable the advance of both unlicensed 
and licensed radio technology.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to 
your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Brown follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. We have concluded opening 
statements. We are now going to move to member questions.
    Each member will have 5 minutes to ask questions of our 
witnesses, and I would ask all my colleagues, who I love 
dearly, to adhere to the 5-minute rule, lest you hear my gavel. 
I will start by recognizing myself for 5 minutes, and try to 
set a good example.
    So, as we have heard from our witnesses today, and as 
demonstrated by the strong demand in recent auctions for 
wireless licenses, mid-band spectrum is vitally important for 
wireless connectivity. Our bill, the Spectrum Innovation Act, 
seeks to maximize the amount of spectrum available for consumer 
use in the 3.1 to 3.45 mid--prime mid-band spectrum.
    Mr. Guice, as an advocate for innovative and competitive 
spectrum usage, can you discuss how you see the Spectrum 
Innovation Act producing greater utilization of the band?
    Mr. Guice. Yes. Look, I think it is a great question, and 
the Act itself sort of sets out, like, there are opportunities 
for licensing in this band, and there are opportunities for 
sharing.
    I think, as we learned in the CBRS process, if we engage 
with DoD, we engage with NTIA and the FCC, we can structure a 
path forward that will result in more spectrum coming online 
for utilization than if we sort of lock ourselves into a camp 
on this spectrum.
    Mr. Doyle. Thank you.
    Mr. Bergmann, do you believe this legislation can help 
provide consumers with greater access to 5G and other next 
generation wireless technologies?
    Mr. Bergmann. Mr. Chairman, thank you for the question. 
Thank you for your focus on this legislation. Absolutely, for 
5G it is all about mid-band, and the lower 3 gigahertz band is 
an absolutely critical band.
    So we appreciate your leadership with the Spectrum 
Innovation Act, which would speed access to this band. Its 
focus on having NTIA and the FCC in the room, its focus on 
licensed spectrum, its focus on a timeline for auction are all 
critical to moving this internationally harmonized key band to 
market.
    Mr. Doyle. Thank you. So as spectrum usage increases and 
our airwaves become more crowded, we are increasingly seeing 
confrontations between incumbents and new users, including even 
new users in the neighboring spectrum bands. So I am glad to 
hear the witnesses reinforce the importance of having Federal 
Government engage in a coordinated spectrum management process.
    Ms. Brown, you discuss in your testimony how we manage the 
impact of new spectrum users on adjacent incumbent systems. 
Could you expound on that, and how that would shape the end 
user and consumer experience?
    Ms. Brown. Yes, thank you for the question.
    I think the way in which we have equipped our agencies to 
resolve new band adjacencies is not lending itself to a 
successful resolution of issues at this point.
    My observation around these issues--and it goes to C-Band, 
but also to transportation spectrum and elsewhere--is that the 
decisions are often challenged by user communities who fear 
interference, and who do not perceive that there is a voice in 
the decisionmaking process that addresses their concerns from 
their perspective.
    So to be clear, the user communities know a lot about their 
systems, but they don't know a lot about spectrum sharing or 
adjacencies. And so we have seen them striking a 
confrontational pose----
    Mr. Doyle. Right.
    Ms. Brown [continuing]. Instead of a collaborative one.
    So we need to think about new ways to put new dynamics into 
the process that helps build consensus. In my testimony I 
suggested a couple of things to explore: one is to put the 
NTIA's Boulder lab more front and center in the middle of these 
issues to help build engineering consensus around what the 
right answers are; another might be to give the FCC the 
authority to conduct independent engineering research, which it 
does not really do today, but which other regulators in other 
parts of the world do.
    The payout, of course, is enormous because, by sharpening 
the tools that the regulators have and building consensus, we 
can reduce the friction, and we can get better use out of our 
airwaves, which is a matter of interest to consumers, but it is 
also a matter of national competitiveness.
    Mr. Doyle. Thank you. You know, much of today's discussion 
has been about domestic spectrum policies, but what happens at 
the international level certainly can have a direct impact on 
what happens here at home. So for this reason, I would like to 
take the opportunity to mention the upcoming leadership 
elections at the U.N. International Telecommunications Union.
    I want to second what Ranking Member Rodgers said. The U.S. 
has nominated a very well qualified candidate, Doreen Bogdan-
Martin, and it is important that Congress and the 
Administration continue to advocate for her to be the next 
Secretary-General of that body.
    With these important considerations in mind, and 
recognizing your experience within the international forums, 
Ms. Stancavage, I was hoping to hear from you how spectrum 
decisions here in the United States shape international 
conversations and global policies, and how that ultimately 
impacts American consumers and companies. So could you please 
share your thoughts with us in ten seconds?
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Doyle. Or I am in big trouble with my colleagues.
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Stancavage. It is absolutely crucial, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Doyle. That is a----
    Ms. Stancavage. Absolutely----
    Mr. Doyle. That is a great answer.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Doyle. And with that I yield back my time and recognize 
my good friend, Mr. Latta, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Latta. Well, I was waiting to see if your chair 
disappeared.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Latta. But thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Bergmann, you point out in your testimony the FCC's 
general authority to grant new permits or licenses for the use 
of spectrum expires on September 30th of this year. However, 
the FCC retained authority to auction spectrum for the lower 3 
gigahertz band that was provided in the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act.
    As Congress considers whether or how to reauthorize 
spectrum auction authority, what spectrum bands are in the 
pipeline?
    And how should Congress be thinking about extending the 
FCC's authority to continue to make spectrum available for 
commercial use?
    Mr. Bergmann. Thank you, Ranking Member, for that question. 
It hits on two of the most important things for us, which is 
auction authority and having a spectrum pipeline.
    In our 30 years with auction authority, it has never 
expired before. So this is new ground. It is really important 
that that be moved forward. And when Congress does that, we 
urge you to consider a spectrum pipeline.
    There are some really important candidates. For us, it is 
all about mid-band spectrum. The lower 3 gigahertz band, which 
you mentioned, is absolutely critical. There is work that is 
started on that now, but Congress can work to advance that and 
speed access to that band. It is internationally harmonized, it 
has large channels.
    There are also other mid-bands that are really important, 
as well, too. The 7 gigahertz band is subject to focus. It is 
something that NTIA has looked at, we would urge this committee 
to look at. The 4 gigahertz band is a band that is being used 
internationally. We would urge this committee to look there, as 
well, too.
    I am delighted to talk to you all about low and high bands, 
as well, too. But the focus really is on mid-band spectrum 
right now.
    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you.
    Ms. Brown, as you may know, I am co-chair of the Wi-Fi 
Caucus, which is focused on the benefits that unlicensed 
spectrum can provide for our economy and new, emerging 
technologies. Recently, the FCC made a significant amount of 
unlicensed spectrum available for Wi-Fi use. Would you speak to 
how Americans use both licensed and unlicensed spectrum?
    And what do you expect to see, in terms of demand for both 
licensed and unlicensed spectrum, in the next 5 to 10 years?
    Ms. Brown. Yes. Thank you for the question. Thank you for 
the question.
    The demand for any wireless technology, whether it is Wi-Fi 
or 5G, can--just continues to rise. Wi-Fi today and unlicensed 
spectrum represents more than half of all internet traffic 
because we are consuming most wireless traffic when we are 
indoors, whether at work or at home. That is not to say that 5G 
is unimportant. It is vitally important, and we are going to be 
using a lot more of it in the future.
    I--from a consumer perspective, what we are going to see, I 
think, is more of a convergence of the two ecosystems as we go 
forward. And one example of that would be the fixed 5G 
offerings that are already in the marketplace, where the 
traffic is hauled via 5G back to a base station, but in the 
home the connections to the actual devices are Wi-Fi. So more 
examples like that coming, and more convergence, and it is 
going to be to the benefit of the American consumer.
    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you very much.
    Mr. Todd, HTC Communications serves both rural and urban 
environments with a mix of licensed and unlicensed spectrum. 
Would you want to speak about how you identify your spectrum 
needs, and what the 2.5 gigahertz spectrum auction would mean 
for a rural provider like HTC?
    Mr. Todd. Thank you for the question. So, for HTC, mid-band 
spectrum means choice. It is critical for us for propagation 
and speed. It is important for scalability and markets that you 
mentioned, both rural and urban areas. So consumers would lose 
out without access to this technology, as the increase for 
broadband continues to grow, and those needs occur across our 
service area.
    Mr. Latta. Thank you.
    Ms. Stancavage, if I could ask you a question, something 
you said if I heard you correctly, you know, the U.S. might not 
be in the lead in 6G, how do we wake people up around this 
place to make sure we stay in the top?
    And what would happen if we were not in the lead in 6G?
    Ms. Stancavage. Thank you for the question. And before I 
start I would like to say I have been with Intel for 20 years, 
and we expected a good reception in Ohio, but it has far 
exceeded that. So many thanks for that on behalf of my 
colleagues.
    Mr. Latta. We appreciate it.
    Ms. Stancavage. So in terms of 6G, it is really important.
    I described, you know, the 5-year gap, basically, where we 
had to intercept that with product development plans. And so, 
when we look out to the 6G horizon, trying to complete that 
process internationally by 2030, I don't see the urgency that I 
think we need to have to make sure that we are in a position.
    So anything we can do to initiate those discussions and 
make sure they happen in a timely manner would make the U.S. 
really well placed to make sure that, when those discussions 
happen globally, the U.S. positions are taken into account, and 
we can coalesce countries around our position.
    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you very much.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. I thank the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes 
the chairman of the full committee, Mr. Pallone, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Chairman Doyle.
    Our airwaves should be used to advance fundamental ideals 
like free speech association and democracy. Authoritarian 
regimes like those in Russia and China, however, are using this 
resource instead to watch and track their people, spread 
disinformation, and shut down free speech. And that is why it 
is as important as ever that the U.S. and like-minded countries 
lead in the development and deployment of these technologies, 
so that our public interest principles are at the center of any 
technological progress.
    So I wanted to ask Mr. Guice, can you expand how we keep 
the public interest at the forefront of our spectrum policy?
    Mr. Guice. Thank you, Chairman Pallone, for the question. 
It is a critical aspect that we need to pursue.
    The public interest has been the driving--the driver 
underneath our spectrum policy for decades, focusing on 
ensuring that communities, low-income communities, communities 
of color, and other--have that opportunity to get connected is 
important. And ensuring that that technology is open is 
important, so that we all have a right and an ability to speak 
on these networks.
    I think, as we look forward to how we do that, making 
certain that we address digital equity concerns, as you raised 
in your opening statement, is an important step. Using auction 
revenues to advance that is important, and that doesn't have to 
compete with some of the other public interest needs that I 
know a number of members on this committee are looking at.
    Mr. Pallone. Well, thank you. And then I wanted to ask Ms. 
Stancavage--I don't know if I am pronouncing it right.
    When it comes to getting the--most of our airwaves to 
promote the public interest, coordination is the key. And so 
NTIA and FCC's recent Spectrum Coordination Initiative 
certainly helps improve things. And we also reported 
legislation out of the committee requiring something similar 
last year.
    So my question to you is, why is spectrum coordination 
important, globally?
    How can we, as the leading democracy in the world, aid in 
this effort?
    And would having a national spectrum strategy in place 
help?
    Ms. Stancavage. Thank you for the question.
    So in terms of making sure that we are available and 
participating in those discussions, when you move into new 
spectrum bands, the components that you need to do that are not 
readily available. So you need radios, you need filters, et 
cetera. And when you need those components, if the U.S. doesn't 
have bands to put forward, and the manufacturers are not aware 
of those, what ends up happening is other countries can then go 
into the void and then put other bands in higher priority.
    So if the U.S. does want to be a leader here, early action 
allows us--even signaling ideas of which bands are under 
consideration and starting that process really is helpful for 
us to be able to identify those, and make sure that that is 
happening at the international level, as well.
    Mr. Pallone. Well, thank you.
    And then, Ms. Brown, unlicensed use of our airwaves offers 
enormous social and economic benefits, and unlicensed airwaves 
help kids compete--or complete, I should say, their homework, 
as well as enable the advancements in health care and other 
things.
    In addition, a recent report found that unlicensed spectrum 
contributes over $79 billion per year in economic value.
    So with these benefits in mind, what is the impact to 
consumers and innovators if the U.S. fails to free up 
additional airwaves for unlicensed use?
    Ms. Brown. Great question. Thank you for the question. Let 
me elaborate a little bit on what my colleague, Ms. Stancavage, 
said.
    Consumers benefit when we can lead in spectrum allocation, 
and then we can lead in product development. So for example, in 
the recent 6 gigahertz band, we were the first country to adopt 
that unlicensed band. We now have over 200 pieces of equipment 
that have been through the certification process, ranging from 
television sets, access points, laptops, smartphones, et 
cetera. And all of that is happening here first.
    So we get the access to equipment and the innovation and 
the innovative new uses of unlicensed, and as we move forward 
we are expecting to see a lot more deployment of augmented 
reality and virtual reality types of devices in that band, 
because we now have the room to spectrally support those sorts 
of technologies. So tremendously important. Thank you.
    Mr. Pallone. Thank you.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now 
recognizes the ranking member, Mrs. Rodgers, for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At our last--this is 
beginning with Mr. Bergmann.
    At our last hearing with NTIA Administrator Davidson, I 
voiced my concerns with the FAA circumventing the established 
spectrum management process, and pressuring wireless carriers 
into accepting more conditions on their spectrum licenses after 
the auction had concluded.
    Congress designated the FCC as a technical expert agency to 
make spectrum management decisions that are in the public 
interest, and with the necessary authority to work through 
these types of concerns. Mr. Bergmann, how can we move forward 
from this incident, and rebuild trust in the spectrum 
decisionmaking process?
    Mr. Bergmann. Thank you so much for the question and your 
focus on this issue. It is absolutely critical.
    I think, from a nearly universal set of perspectives, we 
can agree that the process broke down with the C-Band altimeter 
debate. And, you know, that is really unfortunate, because we 
had the FCC and NTIA, who are our spectrum experts, you know, 
look at this issue, plan for an auction. You had wireless 
carriers invest tens of billions of dollars, over $80 billion, 
to purchase the rights to use this spectrum, and then had 
eleventh or thirteenth-hour objections to that. And that is a 
tremendous challenge, and it undermines that auction authority 
and our spectrum framework for making that spectrum available.
    So I think that, you know, some of the things that we think 
about are improving coordination. I would applaud Mr. Davidson, 
Chairwoman Rosenworcel for their Spectrum Coordination 
Initiative. We think that is a very, very positive step.
    We are encouraged that the coordination has improved and 
gotten much more engineering to--engineering-focused. It is 
really important that these be science-based decisions. We need 
to make sure that concerns are raised early, and that we plan 
for those concerns.
    One of the things that, you know, we think about is a 
whole-of-government approach is so key, so that we don't just 
identify concerns, but we can plan for priorities. We know that 
5G is a priority. We want to plan for that. Because, of course, 
this is all about making sure that we achieve the benefits of 
5G. It is about the $1.5 trillion to the economy, the 4.5 
million new jobs that 5G stands to bring.
    So we really thank you, and appreciate your focus on this 
issue.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you.
    Ms. Brown, over the last several years the committee has 
taken action to ensure our communications networks are secure, 
and to continue American leadership in the wireless industry. 
International harmonization of spectrum policy can play an 
important role in encouraging trusted vendors to align with our 
economic and security interests. And the United States has 
historically been a leader in identifying what spectrum is 
coming down the pipeline. However, other countries like China 
seek to disrupt that leadership and offer a different vision 
with their spectrum interests in mind.
    What can we do to ensure continued U.S. wireless leadership 
internationally, as well as continued economic growth and 
innovation by our trusted allies and partners?
    Ms. Brown. Thank you for the question. I think we are 
already doing it and we need to just keep doing more of it. 
This hearing is a great example.
    We need, as my colleagues have said, to identify spectrum 
pipeline, to continue to advance our spectrum allocations in 
support of our largest technology ecosystems--namely, Wi-Fi and 
5G, and then leading into 6G. And, as a result of that, by 
taking action and building consensus here, we have enormous 
weight when we turn to face the international community. We 
have seen that in the unlicensed space, with the 6 gigahertz 
decision that the FCC made in 2020, where we have dozens and 
dozens of countries that are following the FCC's lead.
    So moving quickly, being--paying attention to it, getting 
the work done, very important. And we need to keep doing more 
of it. Thank you.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you.
    Ms. Stancavage, one of the major successes under the Trump 
Administration was bringing together NTIA, FCC, and DoD to 
establish America's Mid-Band Initiative Teams, AMBIT, to 
identify and make 100 megahertz of mid-band spectrum for 5G. 
How does the U.S. compare to its international counterparts in 
the--in terms of spectrum availability?
    And what areas of spectrum policy should we be thinking 
about, domestically, to better position the United States at 
the international level?
    Ms. Stancavage. Thank you for the question.
    I would characterize it as there is different amounts and 
different use cases, and that is happening--you know, it has 
sort of started in some of the leading markets in countries 
that wanted to make sure they were playing leadership roles 
moving forward. And the U.S. was the very first, in terms of 
the high-band spectrum that we made available.
    We then saw the international community at the World Radio 
Conference come together on which bands were going to be 
targeted globally and used, and they are following the U.S. 
lead. And so we are expecting to see a lot more 5G deployments 
in countries that have not made them to date.
    When we look at the bigger picture, we have to also see 
what continues. Like, 5G is not a point in time. So the 
standard was created in 3GPP. That will continue to evolve as 
we move toward 6G. And as that happens, we want to make sure 
that we have spectrum available in the near term.
    So domestically, we should be thinking what can we put into 
the spectrum pipeline for the near term, and also be looking at 
that over the longer term for 6G. How are we going to make sure 
that we have identified which pieces of spectrum may be viable 
in the U.S., and which ones we want the international market--
so I would say, near term, making sure we have the pipeline, 
and longer term. Thank you.
    Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you.
    I have gone over. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlelady yields back. The chair recognizes 
Mr. McNerney for 5 minutes.
    Mr. McNerney. Well, I thank the chairman. This is a really 
important subject to me, personally, and I am really glad you 
held it. I thank the witnesses.
    Ranking Member Latta and I co-chair the congressional Wi-Fi 
Caucus, and I have long advocated expanding unlicensed spectrum 
in our national spectrum strategy. Mr. Guice, how do we ensure 
that the unlicensed spectrum does not overlook
    [inaudible] commercial interests' push for more----
    Voice. [Inaudible] Guthrie.
    Mr. McNerney [continuing]. Spectrum availability?
    Mr. Guice. Thank you, Mr. McNerney, for the question. The 
main way to do it is to recognize that the successful way to 
effectuate our spectrum policy is to make a variety of access 
regimes available as we look at spectrum bands.
    As has been noted here, you know, the seven gigahertz band, 
that is a great opportunity to expand on our unlicensed work. 
And so opening that band up, with particularly the lower 125 
megahertz, could present real opportunities to advance not only 
Wi-Fi 6, but help us evolve into Wi-Fi 7. But really, keeping 
that mix of access regimes available is what will be critical.
    Mr. McNerney. Well, thank you.
    You observed that using artificial intelligence in 
network--in the network fabric was identified by the Alliance 
for Telecommunications Industry Solutions--and this question 
goes to Ms. Brown, I am sorry--that using AI has been 
identified by the Alliance for Telecommunication Industry 
Solution as the goal for 6G technology. How does that 
availability of licensed and unlicensed spectrum affect the 
United States' ability to compete with other nations in AI?
    Ms. Brown. Thank you for the question. The--it is widely 
expected that AI will be used in 6G networks to a far greater 
extent than it is today. It is already in use in networks 
today, but to a far greater extent. And I think, by leading in 
6G, both in terms of what the vision and the use cases are, and 
understanding how that impacts spectrum allocations, paying 
attention to those spectrum allocations, and getting that work 
done in the--in a prompt way is going to ensure that U.S. 
innovation will be first in these in these new 6g networks to 
come.
    So this is another sort of benefit of paying attention to 
the spectrum allocation process, and getting that work done as 
quickly as possible. Thank you.
    Mr. McNerney. Well, thank you.
    Ms. Stancavage, can AI be used to enhance spectrum 
utilization, spectrum efficiency?
    Ms. Stancavage. Thank you for the question. I think most of 
the AI that we see right now is actually--in terms of network--
is to increase network performance, to make sure that the 
network is operating as well as it can be, and to continue to 
improve it.
    I think, as you move forward toward edge computing and more 
pushing the compute aspects closer to the end user, we will see 
increased AI applications and allowing the benefits of the 
connectivity with the compute and AI to really maximize the 
overall benefits.
    Mr. McNerney. Well, what are some of the real-world 
problems in building the next generation of wireless networks 
that AI can help address?
    Ms. Stancavage. I think mostly it is going to be on the 
network performance in the near term, but I would not 
underscore what the applications will enable. When you can look 
at AI being able to, for instance, look at machine welds on a 
factory floor to make sure that the weld has been done 
correctly in a way that no person could see the images--so it 
is the end user applications that AI will encourage, when you 
combine with the connectivity. But for the near term, I think 
it is mostly in terms of the network performance and really 
enhancing that overall performance.
    Mr. McNerney. Well, thank you. That is a viewpoint I hadn't 
thought of, was looking at well--in parts on the factory floor.
    Mr. Bergmann, you discussed how the United States should 
replenish the spectrum pipeline, and how China has implemented 
mid-band spectrum in the mid to upper frequencies of the 4 
gigahertz band. How will American consumers and businesses be 
affected if other countries continue to innovate their spectrum 
offerings while the U.S. lags?
    Mr. Bergmann. Thank you so much for the question. Mid-band 
spectrum is key to 5G, because it provides the capacity that we 
need for new expanded capabilities, higher capacity, lower 
latency.
    And what that enables is a variety of benefits. It enables 
us to address concerns about the digital divide with new 
services like 5G for home. It enables us to address our 
Nation's climate change goals as we start to integrate 5G into 
some of the highest-emitting sectors in our economy. It enables 
us to be the home for innovation by bringing the topics like 
the one you were raising, AI or virtual reality, and innovation 
in those industries here to the U.S.
    And so that is why it is so critical that we have mid-band 
spectrum to enable that continued growth.
    Mr. McNerney. Thank you----
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. McNerney [continuing]. And I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Guthrie for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the 
recognition, and I appreciate everybody being here today.
    And as you know, we are pushing against the September 30th 
deadline. And I am the co-chair, with Ms. Matsui, of the 
Spectrum Caucus. And I believe that making more spectrum 
available to non-Federal users is critical, especially as 5G 
and other wireless technologies are being deployed in the 
United States.
    So my first question, Mr. Todd, how has making more 
spectrum available for commercial use bolstered our efforts to 
close the digital divide?
    Mr. Todd. Thank you for the question. So, as a cooperative, 
HTC is focused on serving all of our members equally, and 
providing equal access to service. Broadband expansion has 
allowed us to be able to expand into markets where larger 
carriers may not have made broadband available.
    So we have been able to see firsthand how bridging the 
digital divide can really affect and improve opportunities in 
rural communities. We have seen examples of hotspot deployments 
at community centers at the peak of COVID to be able to allow 
households without access, access to broadband, to come 
together at those locations to be able to connect.
    For us, it is all about the availability and usability of 
the spectrum to be able to make sure that, as we continue to 
expand out, that folks have access as soon as they can to 
broadband.
    Mr. Guthrie. We--some co-ops in our area are trying to 
expand broadband to areas that are under-served, as well. Is 
that--is your focus mostly on areas that are under-served by--
well, population areas are going to be served by people who 
have the ability to go in and recover their investment. And are 
you focused on areas that aren't necessarily being able to 
recover investment?
    Mr. Todd. Yes, sir. Our expansion has been in the areas 
where we have been unable to recover investment through 
traditional mechanisms. We have participated in different 
programs, whether it be state-Federal funding programs, to have 
access to grants to expand into those areas. And those vehicles 
have been very beneficial for us.
    Mr. Guthrie. OK, thanks. That is good to know, thank you.
    And then, Ms. Brown, Representative Matsui and I have been 
working on legislation to reauthorize the FCC's spectrum 
auction authority. And beyond the 3 gigahertz band and the 2.5 
gigahertz band, we are continuing to do our due diligence to 
determine what additional bands may be ripe for auction. And so 
my questions, Ms. Brown, are what are the benefits for Congress 
preserving its authority to direct the FCC to conduct certain 
auctions?
    Ms. Brown. The Congress has played a leadership role for 30 
years in identifying spectrum bands and providing direction to 
the FCC about what should happen next. And that is an 
invaluable policy direction that really helps drive consensus 
across the FCC, NTIA, and other agencies.
    I can't stress enough how important it is for you all to 
help the spectrum community direct the FCC on this important 
auction program. We have not had for a long time auction 
authority without some direction in terms of what spectrum 
should be up next. And I encourage you to do that again this 
year.
    Mr. Guthrie. OK, thank you. Thank you, I appreciate that.
    Mr. Bergmann, I agree with you about the importance of 
making spectrum available for exclusive use, particularly the 
mid-band spectrum. One of the earlier mid-band auctions was the 
CBRS auction, which, as you know, granted priority access 
licenses to commercial users with coordination around the 
Department of Defense. We have also seen the 3.45 gigahertz 
auction that granted flexible use licenses.
    Spectrum coordination is key for successful operation 
sharing regimes. I have introduced the Smart Spectrum Act, 
which would require NTIA to establish an incumbent informing 
capability system for sharing spectrum between Federal and non-
Federal users.
    So I will get to my questions in an efficient manner. So 
what are some lessons learned from the previous auctions like 
CBRS and the 3.45 gigahertz that can--we need to take into 
effect as we look at the next spectrum?
    Mr. Bergmann. Thank you, Congressman Guthrie. It is 
important that we be thinking about all tools that we have 
available to us to make more spectrum available. And so we 
appreciate the focus there.
    I think, for us, when we think about spectrum access, it is 
about certainty. You know, our companies have made investments 
of about $30 billion per year in licensed access spectrum, and 
having that certainty is absolutely critical.
    So you know, when we look at, you know, different spectrum 
sharing arrangements, you know, one of the challenges of the 
CBRS framework is the complexity. You know, it is more complex 
than any other country has deployed in that, you know, sort of 
critical area. And we think about things like the power levels 
that can be used.
    And so, you know, for us, I think the market tells the 
story. If you look at the CBRS auction and compare--in 
comparison to the C-Band auction right above it, or the 3.45 
band right below it, you see that the market valued that 
greater certainty that you had with exclusive use spectrum. And 
you know, to a value of about 4 to 1, you know, when you adjust 
for the amount of spectrum. And the reason is----
    Mr. Guthrie. Yes, I think my time has sort of expired, so I 
will yield back. He was about to gavel me, so I will go.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Guthrie. I will go. I heard him.
    Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Mr. Guthrie.
    Before we go to the next question, I want to recognize the 
former chairman that has just walked into the room, Joe Barton 
from the great State of Texas and, more importantly, the 
Republican manager of the congressional baseball team.
    Joe, good to see you.
    Mr. Barton. [Inaudible.]
    Mr. Doyle. That is why I love you so much, Joe.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Doyle. Glad to have you here, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
    Ms. Clarke, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Clarke. Oh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I thank our 
ranking member for convening this important hearing. Thank you 
to our witnesses for their testimony, and for joining us today. 
Greetings to everyone.
    As the COVID-19 pandemic has laid bare, the need for 
accessible broadband connectivity in both urban and rural areas 
is critical for under-served and marginalized populations to 
stay connected to essential online resources like education, 
remote learning, employment, remote work, health care services, 
telehealth, and--as well as narrowing the digital divide. Many 
in these communities use mobile devices to participate in 
online activities such as virtual learning, which often 
requires high speed network connections that aren't always 
accessible and/or available.
    My first question is for Ms. Guice--excuse me, Mr. Guice.
    Mr. Guice, you have noted that a primary focus on public 
interest needs is necessary to fulfill the growing demand for 
spectrum resources. When competing ideas for public interest 
are at play, how can we ensure that spectrum policy decisions 
made in the public interest do not further entrench inequitable 
spectrum access for historically under-served communities?
    Mr. Guice. Representative Clarke, that is a great question, 
and thank you for your leadership in this area. I know that we 
have worked together on a number of efforts to ensure that 
these communities get served.
    It is critical. It is critical that we focus our policies 
on ensuring that we don't leave folks behind that we know 
traditionally get left behind. And so, to advance those 
initiatives, you know, we have suggested digital literacy as 
one way to reach those communities, making certain that they 
have the skills and the tools necessary to get that access.
    We are, obviously, looking at all the money that Congress 
has put forward on a bipartisan basis to drive investment into 
these lower-income communities in our rural and urban areas as 
a way to address that.
    And we are also looking at the authority that the FCC 
gave--the Congress gave the FCC on a bipartisan basis to look 
at past digital discrimination to make certain that we bridge 
these gaps.
    Ms. Clarke. A quick question: How do we create a 
maintenance of effort?
    Because often times we do these one-shot deals and, you 
know, it wanes over time. And these communities have been 
systemically discriminated against.
    Mr. Guice. Yes.
    Ms. Clarke. How do we create within the dynamics before us 
a maintenance of effort?
    Mr. Guice. That is a great, great question, as well. You 
know, we have--in one context we have a universal service 
program that provides continued funding. In this context, you 
know, we should look at auction revenues. This is a source of 
funding that is pretty substantial, where we could endow a 
foundation with some of these revenues, a portion of it, and 
say to them, ``Here is your mission. Make certain that these 
community's needs are addressed. Make certain that we focus 
those efforts.'' So we would love to work with your office on 
trying to bridge that.
    Ms. Clarke. Absolutely. And as a followup in your 
testimony, you explained that revenue generated from spectrum 
auctions could support public interest needs. That being said, 
should we also be looking at how we might--spectrum re-
allocations and auctions themselves be constructed to promote 
digital inclusion, and increase access to the affordability of 
5G connectivity for unserved and under-served communities?
    Mr. Guice. Yes, absolutely. I mean, that is the game here, 
right?
    We need to make certain that we are getting everybody, all 
Americans, connected. And figuring out the tools to help them 
is critical.
    Ms. Clarke. Wonderful, I thank you.
    As the world goes wireless, the uses and demand for 
wireless connectivity and spectrum continue to increase 
rapidly. In recent years, the U.S. has made enormous progress 
in unleashing spectrum, which has been allocated for both 
licensed and unlicensed use.
    Ms. Brown, in your testimony you stated that the United 
States finds itself in the inevitable--excuse me, unenviable 
position of being a technology leader in both unlicensed and 
licensed technology. As we replenish spectrum pipeline, is it 
critical that we use available spectrum bands as efficiently as 
possible?
    Recognizing that, what considerations should policy--
recognizing this, what considerations should policymakers take 
into account when evaluating the best methods for allowing new 
uses in the spectrum bands?
    Ms. Brown. Well, the short answer to that question is yes, 
we should.
    And I would point, by way of example, to the FCC's flexible 
spectrum licensing program, which allows operators to 
continually upgrade and change out the technology that they are 
using in the license spectrum that they have. That is a huge 
advantage that the United States has globally. Not all 
regulators do it, and we should encourage it.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlelady's time----
    Ms. Clarke. Thank you.
    Mr. Doyle [continuing]. Has expired.
    Ms. Clarke. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Doyle. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Kinzinger for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Kinzinger. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I wish I 
could be there with you all soon. And I appreciate all the 
witnesses for being here.
    We can all agree and, as most of us have publicly stated, 
that the United States has a vested interest in being the world 
leader in 5G tech and service. But I think it is also safe to 
say that the coordination of spectrum policy, which is 
absolutely vital to the effort to lead in 5G and beyond, has 
been subpar.
    Don't get me wrong, the FCC's auctions have been a major 
success, bringing in tens of billions in revenue to the Federal 
Government and allowing for efficient uses of commercial 
spectrum. But in the past five or 6 years alone, we have seen 
numerous disputes, inter-governmental, inter-industrial, and 
government-to-industry disputes which hamper overall effort. 
And they have been embarrassing, frankly.
    What can the--how can the U.S. be expected to lead, when it 
has to grapple with turf wars in government, and scaremongering 
from certain industries? It is my hope that we can all work 
together to overcome these challenges, reauthorize spectrum 
auction authorities, and remove unnecessary obstacles to 
spectrum organization and efficiency.
    First question, Mr. Bergmann, with the demand for spectrum 
reaching all-time highs, what does Congress need to do to help 
direct more spectrum toward 5G and 6G?
    And what are the spectrum needs of the industry going to 
look like for 6G?
    Mr. Bergmann. Thank you so much for the question, 
Congressman. I think I can answer both of your questions with 
one answer, which is to say the key is for this committee to 
focus on extending the FTC's auction authority with a defined 
set of spectrum bands, because that is what is critical for 
advancing 5G, and it is also critical for addressing the 
coordination issues that you referenced.
    I mentioned earlier that the FCC and NTIA are our spectrum 
regulator experts. This committee is our Nation's spectrum 
expert, as well, too. And we really look for this committee to 
lead in terms of defining those auctions. That plays a 
tremendous advantage in terms of moving quickly. And it also 
helps reduce some of those back-end problems of coordination 
that we have seen more recently.
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Doyle. Adam, are you still with us?
    There he is.
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Doyle. Well, Adam, are you able to hear us?
    Well, the wonders of modern technology, huh?
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Doyle. You want me to go to the next witness, or just 
wait? Who is next, Mr. Veasey?
    You know what? I am going to----
    Mr. Kinzinger. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I am having some 
connection issues.
    Mr. Doyle [continuing]. Recognize Mr. Veasey, and then we 
will let----
    Mr. Kinzinger. Let me yield back.
    Mr. Doyle [continuing]. Adam back on, if----
    Mr. Kinzinger. I will yield back.
    Mr. Doyle [continuing]. He needs it. Adam, are you there?
    Mr. Kinzinger. Yes. If you can hear me, I will yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. Oh, OK, the gentleman yields back. The Chair 
recognizes Mr. Veasey for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Veasey. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
    And as many of you know, just like the rest of the country, 
the Dallas-Fort Worth area is experiencing huge growth in 
technology companies. And we want to make sure that we are 
collectively working together to ensure that low-income 
communities and communities of color across the Metroplex, as 
we like to call it, can benefit from some of the economic 
opportunities made possible as we explore the next wireless 
frontier. And that brings me to my next question for Mr. Guice.
    Can you elaborate how using a mix of access regimes--
approach and exploring spectrum opportunities benefits low-
income communities and communities of color as new technologies 
and services emerge?
    Mr. Guice. Yes, thank you very much for the question, 
Congressman Veasey.
    A mix of access regime. What it does is it ensures that 
entrepreneurs at minority businesses have the opportunity to 
explore getting access to spectrum and spectrum technologies on 
unlicensed networks without a huge upfront payment on spectrum 
acquisition. So it creates those kind of opportunities.
    In addition, you know, the FCC actually has a policy given 
to it by this Congress under section 309 that it should 
structure its auctions in a way that encourages minority and 
women-owned businesses to participate.
    And as the FCC looks at structuring auctions, we encourage 
them to think about how design of that auction, particularly in 
terms of spectrum service areas, may hinder that capability or 
that opportunity for women and minority-owned businesses. So we 
kind of push them, and we hope you will push them.
    But it is that mix of access that entrepreneurs and 
innovators in the unlicensed space can obtain market without 
having to go through the spectrum acquisition cost, and then 
those minority and women-owned businesses that can pursue 
opportunities in spectrum, the FCC should structure its auction 
to encourage that participation.
    Mr. Veasey. What can Congress do to help prioritize that to 
make sure everyone who wants and needs to be connected has 
equal access to the next generation of technology?
    Mr. Guice. Well, you know, Congress took a substantial step 
in the IIJA in bringing connectivity to these communities. The 
NTIA, as it rolls that program out, needs to be rigorous in 
ensuring that the states are pursuing those opportunities where 
there are, you know, urban and rural divides that need to be 
bridged. This is a once-in-a-generation investment, and we 
certainly are encouraging them to make certain that, you know, 
through the mapping and other efforts, they are targeting these 
communities with those investments.
    Mr. Veasey. Ms. Stancavage, I wanted to ask you a question. 
You know, as government and industries work together in the 
U.S. to secure the next generation and deployment, we should be 
very intentional about advocating in the public, and recreating 
a robust workforce pipeline.
    I wanted to ask you about Intel, and what initiatives has 
Intel taken to not only educate communities about the benefits 
of 5G and other cutting-edge technology, but also to recruit 
high school students and college students of diverse 
backgrounds to join the technology workforce.
    Ms. Stancavage. Thank you very much for the question, 
Congressman Veasey.
    So Intel takes workforce development very seriously. We 
have a variety of programs. In Ohio, for instance, we are, as 
part of our initiative there, making sure that we are doing 
workforce development as part of our Ohio rollout.
    But in addition, one of my colleagues is very active in a 
program with AI, where we are making sure that AI for Youth is 
really explaining the technology and helping.
    We also have programs at the community college level that 
we use, and I believe the First Lady Biden was just at one of 
the sites to look at that, as well, in Arizona to see what we 
are doing in that respect, as well.
    So we do have, you know, for college students, for younger 
students, and what we are doing with workforce, because we see 
it as absolutely critical to make sure we are prepared now and 
over the longer term.
    Mr. Veasey. Thank you very much.
    And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. I will now yield 5 
minutes to my fellow suffering Pittsburgh Pirate fan and 
friend, Gus Bilirakis.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you. And let me just tell you, we have 
the number-three farm system in baseball. There is no question. 
And it is a bright future. I guarantee it, Mr. Chairman.
    OK, in 2019 CTIA unveiled the idea of a national 5-year 
spectrum plan. At that time I said that this was a good idea to 
ensure a unified strategy among all agencies and Federal 
partners to understand and achieve a defined goal. Since then, 
there have been well-publicized instances that prove Federal 
agencies are not on the same page when it comes to spectrum 
strategy, unfortunately. And in some ways, this disharmony is 
an embarrassment for a functioning government.
    In my research I found that the country of Australia has 
maintained a 5-year spectrum plan since at least 2017. Their 
plan is publicly updated by annually--biannually with their 
successes, failures, and status reports, which are then rolled 
into an updated 5-year plan.
    The question is for Mr. Bergmann.
    What would you say is the status of a unified American 
spectrum strategy?
    What a minimum--at minimum, should be included in a U.S. 
strategy on spectrum?
    And should we use Australia's spectrum plan as a model?
    Mr. Bergmann. Thank you. Thank you, Congressman.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Sure.
    Mr. Bergmann. You know, your description of the focus on 
spectrum auctions and spectrum planning is really critical. And 
I think that is definitely something that we can benefit from, 
and incorporate here. A national spectrum strategy is a key way 
to do that. We can plan for auctions to have that pipeline of 
spectrum bands. You can make sure that you are taking your most 
highly valued assets.
    You know, I have talked a lot about mid-band spectrum. When 
we look at the portfolio of mid-band spectrum, we see that 
government is overweighted, DoD has access to two-thirds of the 
key mid-band spectrum.
    We also look at the allocations between licensed and 
unlicensed, and you have today about 1,900 megahertz of that 
mid-band spectrum for unlicensed. You are at anywhere between 
270 or 450 today for licensed spectrum in that mid-band range.
    So we think it is really important that you make those kind 
of strategic decisions so that we have enough of the right 
assets coming to market.
    I would also again encourage this committee, as our 
spectrum experts, you all can help with that spectrum pipeline 
when you guys consider the FCC's auction authority, and provide 
some of that direction, as well, too.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you very much.
    One issue I have been pounding the desk on--and I am not 
going to pound the desk, Mr. Chairman--on getting the NTIA and 
the FCC to update their memorandum of understanding on spectrum 
coordination. And this committee unanimously passed my bill, 
the Spectrum Coordination Act, which would do just that.
    And I appreciate it, Mr. Chairman, you putting that on the 
agenda. I would love to see it get on the floor of the House of 
Representatives as soon as possible.
    Prior to our last hearing, these two agencies put out a 
press release that they would be working to update the MOU on 
their own.
    Mr. Bergmann again, have we heard anything beyond the press 
release on the status of this update?
    For instance, do we have a timeline for an updated 
agreement?
    Do we know what they are seeking to address to make this 
process better?
    And as a followup, again, we all know intimately the 
problem surrounding Federal agencies with the last spectrum 
auction and licenses.
    So let's go ahead and get that response from you first, 
please.
    Mr. Bergmann. Thank you so much. You are absolutely right 
to focus on coordination between agencies. We want NTIA and the 
FCC to be at the lead of that, so we certainly support your 
legislation and efforts to move that MOU forward.
    We do think it is critical that all agencies appreciate and 
recognize the goals that you talked about with the National 
Spectrum Strategy, so that we have both NTIA and the FCC 
leading, and the other agencies thinking about how do we 
support those goals, so that we identify concerns early and we 
can plan for them.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you. So is there a better way to 
incorporate any Federal agencies with shared spectrum or 
adjacent spectrum in the pre-auction process to avoid these 
blunders without being too burdensome? Because that is 
important, as well. What do you think?
    Mr. Bergmann. I think we do have existing processes through 
sort of the inter-governmental coordination, and the key is 
that those processes broke down in the instance of the C-Band. 
We need to have a recommitment to those coordination policies 
so that those concerns are addressed early.
    What is at stake, right, is how quickly can we bring 5G to 
market, and how quickly can we bring 5G home to bear for the 
digital divide or connecting rural areas? How do we push 
innovation faster here in the U.S.?
    So I think it is really critical that we get that C-Band 
spectrum online in July, and I would definitely encourage this 
committee, through your oversight role, to make sure that those 
agencies are getting that feedback in as quickly as possible.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time has----
    Mr. Bilirakis. Very good. I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle [continuing]. Expired. The Chair now recognizes 
Mr. McEachin for 5 minutes.
    Mr. McEachin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And to you and to 
Chairman Pallone I thank you for convening today's hearing.
    Mr. Guice, I would like to start off with you, and just 
note that when we did the development of wired broadband 
services in rural communities, we found that it was critical to 
ensure that we knew what areas are served and what areas are 
not. And that is why I was privileged to help with the passage 
of the Broadband Data Act last Congress, which attempted to 
help improve how we collect data for wireless--wireline 
providers for our broadband maps.
    But as you know, it is a little trickier with wireless 
providers. How do we make sure that we have accurate maps of 
which wireless providers serve which areas, and why is it 
important to get it right?
    Mr. Guice. Thank you, Congressman McEachin, for the 
question, and thank you for your leadership on trying to secure 
support for devices so that we can get folks in our low-income 
communities connected. We will continue that work.
    The mapping question is a really good question. When we 
talk about wireless mapping, it is different and more difficult 
than a wireline map. Unfortunately, too often our maps have 
relied on sort of the theoretical propagation characteristics, 
which leaves a lot of communities unserved, but reported as 
served.
    As we look at the rollout of 5G and the small cell 
technology that that technology relies on, it is going to be 
critical that we get that information right, because the 
opportunities to miss communities in our urban sectors as well 
as communities in our rural sector are just vastly increased.
    So, you know, let's take a look at the actual technical 
opportunities, but also let's make certain that the 
crowdsourcing of data that we present as an opportunity to 
challenge those maps is available to consumers, as well. So it 
can't be just a state-led effort. It can't be just a 
professional effort. We need true crowdsourcing, because the 
opportunity for these technologies to miss communities are 
pretty great.
    Mr. McEachin. Thank you for that.
    Mr. Bergmann, I would like to talk to you about the so-
called last mile, if we can. Where do things stand currently, 
in terms of the effectiveness of fixed wireless as a last-mile 
option for our rural communities?
    And how do we ensure the spectrum remains available as we 
move forward with auctions?
    Mr. Bergmann. Thank you so much, Congressman, for the 
question.
    As we think about trying to meet our biggest challenges, 
like connecting 100 percent of the population, which is the 
absolute right goal for this committee, I think mobile wireless 
is particularly well suited to make those connections, and so I 
would applaud this committee for its focus on technological 
neutrality in the programs that you all have adopted. And we 
have seen, with the success of programs like the Emergency 
Broadband Benefit, the Affordable Connectivity Program, two out 
of every three consumers choosing wireless.
    And we are really excited as we think about now fixed 
wireless for home broadband. We see already our nationwide 
providers, regional providers investing in fixed wireless, 
connecting tens of millions of homes already. And with the 
right spectrum, they have plans to connect together over 200 
million homes. So we know that this can be a critical part of 
the equation because it can be deployed quickly, in many cases 
can be deployed more affordably, and it is going to bring 
choice to the home broadband market. So we are very, very 
excited about 5G home for wireless, and appreciate this 
committee's focus on making sure that we have got the right 
spectrum to do that.
    Mr. McEachin. All right, thank you, sir. I thank all the 
witnesses.
    Mr. Chairman, I am going to give you a whole minute back. I 
yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Mr. McEachin. The Chair now 
recognizes my good friend, Bill Johnson, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Todd, as co-chair of the 5G Caucus, I am focused on 
finding additional spectrum opportunities so that our Nation's 
5G network can be swiftly deployed. I am pleased that FCC Chair 
Rosenworcel recently announced that the FCC plans to start an 
auction for the 2.5 gigahertz band this July. This auction will 
make more spectrum available for 5G expansion, especially in 
rural parts of the country.
    But unfortunately, the FCC's auction authority is set to 
expire on September 30th. Something has--like that has never 
happened since the FCC's auction authority was first enacted in 
the mid-1990's. Please walk us through how this looming 
expiration might impact the preparation of smaller carriers.
    Mr. Todd. Thank you for the question. From a small carrier 
perspective, not continuing auction authority would hinder our 
participation because we don't have the resources that larger, 
regional--national providers have.
    Mr. Johnson. OK, Mr. Bergmann, recently a technical 
disagreement in the C-Band spectrum made national news. We all 
heard about it. As spectrum repurposing is becoming more 
difficult, we need to ensure our spectrum licensing system 
provides certainty to encourage investment in wireless 
technology, and we need to ensure that Federal agencies are 
communicating, collaborating, and fully cooperating to ensure 
safety issues are addressed without disrupting the auction 
process.
    The C-Band spectrum that was auctioned is a non-Federal 
band. Can you explain how the FAA inserted itself into the 
process, and whether they had a formal role in the re-
allocation process?
    Mr. Bergmann. Yes, thank you very much for the question and 
the focus on the issue.
    You know, I think we can all agree that the process broke 
down in the C-Band altimeter discussions and caused unnecessary 
friction. You know, we saw that when we look at how the rest of 
the world uses that band safely, and has both 5G and safe 
flights.
    And so I think, you know, it is absolutely critical that we 
learn from this lesson when we have companies that are willing 
to invest tens of billions of dollars to solve the digital 
divide, to bring jobs. It is absolutely critical that that 
process happen smoothly.
    And I think, you know, the keys are, as you say, making 
sure that there is early agency input. The FCC and NTIA do have 
a process where they share proposed decisions and circulate 
those.
    I think the challenge here is that some of those aviation--
some of that aviation equipment listens outside of its band. In 
the 5G world we stay in our lane. We are very focused on 
providing service in our lane, but that aviation equipment 
listens outside of its band.
    And so, you know, when I think about early planning, I 
think about not just raising concerns, but how do we plan for 
the future, so that there are technology upgrades, so that we 
can----
    Mr. Johnson. Yes.
    Mr. Bergmann [continuing]. Be more efficient with that 
spectrum.
    Mr. Johnson. Back to those operative words, cooperate, 
communicate, and collaborate across agencies to make sure we 
address these questions up front.
    Mr. Bergmann, continuing with you, the FCC was established 
by Congress to be the authoritative technical expert on 
spectrum matters. While the FAA's stakeholders did not like the 
outcome of that proceeding, what is the long-term impact to the 
public's trust when Americans see Federal agencies raising 
last-minute concerns after the auction, once concerns were 
already addressed by the so-called expert agencies?
    I mean, how can the American people trust what we are 
doing, if we miss something this big?
    Mr. Bergmann. I would absolutely agree with you. I think we 
saw unnecessary friction in the aviation industry for 
consumers, and certainly in the wireless world, as well, too. 
And we know that every 6-month delay in 5G costs us $25 billion 
in the benefits that we hope to achieve from it. So it is 
absolutely critical that we solve these issues, going forward.
    Mr. Johnson. You bet. One last question for you, Mr. 
Bergmann, and I will ask it quickly.
    One of the biggest auctions the FCC has ever conducted is 
the auction of the C-Band spectrum. While the first 100 
megahertz of the full 280 megahertz has been made available, 
the remaining 180 megahertz of the spectrum will be made 
available in phase 2 of the transition. As Congress examines 
whether and how to extend FCC authority to issue permits and 
licenses, what would be the impact to your industry if the FCC 
is unable to complete processing the phase 2 licenses?
    Mr. Bergmann. Absolutely. Well, it is absolutely critical 
that we bring spectrum--that first phase available in July, and 
it is critical that we move forward with phase 2, as well, too. 
We know that is key to all those benefits that 5G will bring to 
us.
    Mr. Johnson. OK. So you are aware of it.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman----
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time----
    Mr. Johnson [continuing]. I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle [continuing]. Has expired, and the Chair now 
recognizes Mr. Soto for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Soto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In central Florida and 
throughout the Nation, Americans rely on spectrum for cell 
service, internet, social media, GPS, various apps from health 
to music. And that is why I was so excited about the 5G 
rollout. This was a tremendous accomplishment.
    We know there was balancing that had to happen between both 
cellular and aviation, and those issues will continue to be 
resolved. And it is key that we work together, both through 
cellular and aviation and other areas, as we go forward on C-
Band concerns that have been around for about 4 years.
    Especially representing central Florida, a tourism capital 
with so much air traffic, we happen to be able to do this 
because we work together, right, in public-private 
partnerships, government, as well as private industries. And 
that is why it is so key for us to do the same thing as we open 
up new spectrum for auction, which is why we are here today, to 
make sure we educate the American people on why it is key to 
extend the FCC's auction authority currently set to expire on 
September 30th of this year.
    And what is at stake, particularly mid-band spectrum, which 
is good signal, has a good signal range, and is better indoors. 
It helps with increased capacity, faster speeds, latency, so 
many things that are key to make sure we have that crisp cell 
phone connection. And so we have to continue this work together 
as we march toward 6G--you heard it, 6G next, to those of you 
at home who are just catching up with 5G. Artificial 
intelligence, virtual reality, machine learning, and other 
technological advances, 6G will be critical to these for our 
economy, healthcare, national security, finance, entertainment, 
so many other issues.
    I am glad it was brought up before about the American 
COMPETES Act and the CHIPS Act that is included in there, 
because all of this is together. Without the supplies for cell 
phones and so many other technological advances, we won't be 
able to let this happen. So I am hopeful, like with the 
infrastructure law and, particularly with the recent budget, 
that this committee and this Congress will come together to 
pass the America COMPETES Act with CHIPS funding. We are 
excited to make microchips in central Florida in NeoCity, and 
we are going to keep going forward on that.
    I am also concerned about commercial space flight and 
streamlining telecommunications with regard to our rockets that 
go up, literally, every week, multiple times a week, by SpaceX, 
Blue Origin, ULA, and, of course, by NASA. So our LAUNCHES Act 
is something that we look forward to longer discussion on in 
the future.
    But for now, we know it is critical for FCC and NTIA to 
work together to develop positions on international spectrum 
issues: one, to help achieve global harmonization; two, to make 
sure we are in the best position to capitalize on what the next 
generation of wireless technology has to offer; and three, to 
ensure timely commercialization of products for the U.S. 
market.
    Ms. Stancavage, why is it important to U.S.'s economic and 
security interests to play a leadership role in engaging the 
international community in spectrum policy?
    Ms. Stancavage. Thank you for the question, Congressman 
Soto. It is absolutely critical.
    As I described, it is--we have to be early in the process 
to make sure that we have the components around it so that we 
are able to intercept the product and investment cycle to make 
sure that there is timely access. And that is true for licensed 
and unlicensed technologies. And when the U.S. does act 
quickly, what you see is the bands that the U.S. selects, we do 
have the equipment to support those, and then we are able to 
provide that equipment, and we are then able to capitalize on 
the economies of scale when other countries do, as well.
    So rather--waiting at the back of the queue, we are at the 
front of the queue, and then we are able to make sure we have 
the equipment, and we have it at a--in a more cost-effective 
manner.
    Mr. Soto. Like in so many issues, it is critical for 
America to lead, and I appreciate that.
    Mr. Bergen (sic), much of the mid-spectrum is occupied by 
Federal Government agencies. Obviously, this is a sensitive 
area, where we have to have careful balance. Do you have any 
recommendations on how we can determine what spectrum the 
government needs, and what can be reallocated?
    Mr. Bergmann. Absolutely. Thank you for the question and 
the focus on mid-band spectrum.
    You are absolutely right. The Federal Government is 
overweighted in our mid-band spectrum portfolio. There are 
absolutely important missions there. The key is to find ways to 
be more efficient with the spectrum that we use.
    In the commercial wireless industry we have strong 
incentives to constantly have new generations of technology 
that are more efficient. With spectrum, we have increased our 
spectrum efficiency by 42 times in the last ten years. The same 
incentives don't always exist for the Federal Government. So we 
need to find a way to make them more efficient, so that they 
can do their important missions, and we can reallocate spectrum 
for commercial use.
    Mr. Soto. And that is why we are here today----
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Soto. Thanks.
    Mr. Doyle. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Long for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Long. All right, folks, everybody gather round here, 
about to begin the auction. Hey, hey. Beautiful day for an 
auction, and as you all know, it never rains on a Billy Long 
auction, there is always a cool breeze at about 40 degrees. But 
I am very happy today to be here today selling the 2.5 
gigahertz band. And you are all--we have had your credit pre-
approved and everything, so everyone is free to bid at will.
    All right, who got 25 million? Here? Twenty-five, twenty-
five? We get 20, somebody say 25? What are you--15, 10, $10 
billion, 2.5 gigahertz? Come on, now. All right. Six million, 
eight, eight, nine, now we got a nine, ten, ten, 11 here, 
eleven. Ten million dollars? Eleven, 11 now, eleven, twelve. 
Yes, 13 million, 14, 14-and-a-half, 13, 14-and-a-half. Sold at 
$13 billion to Chairman Doyle there, 13 billion.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Long. Sir, if you will pay your bill at the door out 
there before you leave, that would be greatly appreciated.
    And folks, I have a 31-year career as an auctioneer before 
coming to Congress. And so I know a little bit about auctions, 
and that is the place that things happen, and it is 
transparent, fair, and all equal to everyone. Everyone is free 
to bid.
    Auctioneering spectrum benefits the American taxpayer and 
the Federal Government. In fact, it has the potential to raise 
significant funds, as you just witnessed here, with him paying 
13 billion for that band, to the U.S. Treasury and for the 
congressional priorities such as rural broadband deployment in 
places like my district in southwest Missouri.
    It is important for the FCC auction authority to be 
extended with language requiring some FCC auctions, even for a 
short term.
    Now, switching gears, Ms. Brown, I would like to ask you, 
upon identification by Federal agencies the FCC is required to 
auction spectrum in the lower 3 gigahertz band within the next 
7 years, as NTIA looks to potentially relocate incumbent 
Federal systems or to find a technical solution to sharing. 
What is the viability and the--or visibility into broadband 
range for spectrum assignments and their use?
    And how important is it that NTIA gets this information?
    Ms. Brown. Thank you for the question. It is critically 
important that NTIA get the information about Federal use in 
that band because 3 gigahertz is the most important 5G band, 
not just in the United States, but in the world, because it can 
get put to work immediately to deliver 5G services.
    So I think one of the things that the Spectrum Innovation 
Act does well is it does give a timeline to NTIA and FCC to 
make up their minds, but it also gives them flexibility in the 
decisionmaking, depending on what they find in the band, and 
whether it can be moved, or changed, modified, or whether it 
needs to stay put. So I think Congress is on the right track 
there.
    Mr. Long. Thank you. And I will go to Ms. Stancavage next.
    Under Chairman Pai's tenure, the FCC started the Spectrum 
Horizons proceeding to seek comment on how to unleash 
innovation in new technologies in spectrum above 95 gigahertz. 
How do you envision the future of these terahertz frequencies 
being used, and how is the rest of the world looking at 
possible uses for this spectrum?
    Ms. Stancavage. Thank you for the question, Congressman 
Long.
    So basically, when we look at this, it is about the 
capabilities that are enabled. So when you look at 4G, it was 
very humancentric, what you did on your phone. With 5G, we 
added ultra-reliable low-latency computing, and also for 
machine massive machine-type communication, or IoT. Those extra 
capabilities are enabling businesses to get those same types of 
benefits.
    And now, as we move into 6G, there is research and 
development going on for some of those that would require very, 
very large bandwidths, but very short range, which would be 
consistent with those bands, for things like positioning, very 
high accuracy positioning, and sensor uses. So you want to take 
advantage of the capabilities that the technology brings and 
what is able to be deployed there.
    So there is definite interest in a lot of different 
research areas to look at those high bands.
    Mr. Long. OK, thank you. And I just want to make a note 
that, if this 5.2 ends up bringing less than 13 billion, that 
they should hire me as their auctioneer next time.
    And being an auctioneer, I did my 5 minutes in two-and-a-
half minutes. So, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. I thank the gentleman. I am going to need an 
installment plan, Billy.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Doyle. The Chair now recognizes Mr. O'Halleran for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. O'Halleran. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that. 
As we consider the future of the Nation's spectrum allocation 
and American leadership in this frontier, I want to recognize 
that, while making more mid-band spectrum available is 
important for American leadership on 5G deployment, it is also 
critical for closing the digital divide in rural America.
    The spectrum decisions made--and I hope we get this done by 
September, end of December, September--made here in D.C. have 
the potential to vastly improve connectivity in Arizona and 
across rural America. Access to spectrum is a key part of 
unlocking the potential of wireless broadband in rural America 
and Indian country.
    Broadband is the lifeblood of the 21st century economy. It 
is critical to economic development, telehealth, and education 
in rural areas. Ensuring our rural and tribal communities and 
the providers that serve them have access to the spectrum 
resources necessary is essential to closing the digital divide 
and making sure our rural schools, hospitals, and businesses 
are not left behind.
    In the past spectrum auctions, like the most recent 2.5 
gigahertz, the FCC created a tribal priority window so that 
spectrum could be allocated to ensure eligible federally 
recognized tribal governments, as well as tribal communications 
providers were able to connect their communities. This 
presented a landmark opportunity for tribal nations to gain 
access to spectrum to better serve their communities.
    Mr. Guice, I know you are working with tribal nations 
before, and including the Gila River Indian community in the 
southern part of my district. Can you discuss what else 
Congress should be considering to make sure that tribal 
communities can get the best wireless services possible?
    Mr. Guice. Thank you, Congressman O'Halleran, for the 
question. And it was an honor to serve Gila River for the years 
in which I did that. What it did give me an awareness of was 
just how difficult the challenge is of bridging the divide in 
our tribal communities.
    What Congress can do is--what you did, you know--promote 
the opportunity for tribal windows when spectrum becomes 
available, make certain that there is sufficient time for those 
tribal communities to apply for that window. So we appreciate 
your leadership on that that work.
    But as Congress looks at spectrum opportunities, it needs 
to recognize the sovereignty of our tribal nations, and that 
sovereignty means that they should have some input into the 
destiny of the wireless spectrum that runs over their lands. So 
that is sort of what the tribal window created. And as we move 
forward on all spectrum bands, we think that is a good policy 
for the FCC to look through.
    In addition, the FCC can look at tribal bidding credits, 
and how to reform those to better utilize them, as well as 
disaggregation of spectrum license areas so that tribal 
communities can build the networks on their lands where a 
provider has the area, but not the will to build.
    So I look forward to working with your office on these 
issues. Public Knowledge is an advocate for our tribal 
communities, to make certain that they have affordable access 
because, as you know, they are some of the least served 
communities in the country.
    Mr. O'Halleran. Well, thank you very much. In the FCC's 
auction for Citizens Broadband Radio Service, more than 200 
bidders won over 20,000 licenses, including many entities like 
wireless internet service providers and tribes.
    Mr. Todd, why so many bidders--or why so many bidders were 
able to win the spectrum in the auction (sic)?
    What lessons can we learn from it?
    How--and how can we ensure rural providers are able to 
meaningfully produce and participate in the future auctions?
    Mr. Todd. Thank you for the question. So as a small 
provider, having access to smaller license areas is critical 
for small providers to be able to participate in auctions.
    As I mentioned earlier, as a small provider, we have 
limited resources. I would expect this to be a similar 
situation for other providers, as well, where we don't have the 
resources that larger providers have to participate in auctions 
on a larger scale, as well as larger sizes of spectrum.
    So for us, having usable spectrum that is available, that 
has OEM equipment that we can roll out, that definitely 
supports consumer choice and competition in those areas.
    Mr. O'Halleran. Thank you very much----
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair now 
recognizes Mr. Carter for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank all of the 
witnesses for being here today.
    Ms. Brown, I want to start with you, if you will. During 
the pandemic, as we all know, Americans relied on Wi-Fi for 
work, school, and so many other things. In fact, I was reading 
a book the other day that said that the average teenager was on 
the internet five hours a day more during the pandemic than 
they were before. It is just unbelievable to me that it is--
that that is true. It--and it--that we are on the internet so 
much.
    But what I wanted to ask you is, unlicensed spectrum plays 
a crucial role, as we all know, in enabling Wi-Fi technologies. 
And under the last Administration, the FCC made an 
unprecedented amount of unlicensed spectrum available for 
commercial use. Do you think that is going to be enough to keep 
up with all the new data-rich applications that Americans use 
today?
    I mean, all of us are on the internet. I am hunkered down 
now, and using it virtually. And do you think that is going to 
be enough to accommodate all of us?
    Ms. Brown. Well, thank you for the question. Over the long 
term, it probably won't be enough. But I think, for the for the 
immediate term, industry is already rolling out innovative new 
technology on the 6 gigahertz band. And we are looking forward 
in a couple of years to a second generation of technology 
coming into the 6 gigahertz band. A technology known as Wi-Fi 7 
will be coming our way in about two years' time.
    But that said, the--if demand continues to go up, and we 
expect it will with AR and VR and other sorts of technologies, 
over time we do need to look for other opportunities, including 
perhaps spectrum at the very low end of the 7 gigahertz range, 
or other places where we could expand Wi-Fi technology.
    Mr. Carter. OK, let me ask you something else. There is a 
little known research and engineering arm of the NTIA that is 
in Boulder, Colorado. And I believe that this expert facility 
is being under-utilized, given the level of expertise it has.
    So I recently introduced a bill, the Institute for 
Telecommunication Scientists Codification Act. This bill would 
give the ITS statutory authority to continue its work with a 
focus on establishing an initiative to support the development 
of emergency communication and tracking technologies where 
conventional radio communication is limited.
    Ms. Brown, would you elaborate on what makes the people in 
Boulder so uniquely positioned to enable collaboration on next 
generation spectrum technologies?
    Ms. Brown. Yes, thank you, yes. The Boulder Lab is national 
treasure. It is the place where radar was invented in World War 
II, and it has a long and distinguished career in spectrum 
sciences. I think innovations like your bill that would enable 
that lab to work on commercial issues around sharing and 
adjacencies would be welcome.
    It struck me as very astonishing that we got so far down 
the road in the C-Band debate without actually having facts on 
the ground about what the altimeters could or couldn't do, and 
the degree to which interference might arise. It wasn't 
actually until this fall that we started seeing facts pop out 
on that. And I noted this week there was an article in the--one 
of the national newspapers about Boulder getting involved in 
actual measurements using DoD funding.
    So, yes, more flexibility and more funding for that lab 
would, I think, really help us with mitigating the kinds of 
issues we have seen in spectrum allocation.
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Ms. Brown, I appreciate that.
    Mr. Bergmann, I want to ask you real quickly. I have the 
honor and privilege of representing the 1st district of 
Georgia, and we--whereas it includes the entire coast of 
Georgia, it also includes a lot of rural areas, and getting 
broadband to those parts of the State is really important to my 
constituents for a number of reasons: work, learning, 
entertainment, whatever.
    I understand that the future of 5G is more than just 
mobile, but there will be a fixed component to it, and that 
your members will offer home broadband services with 5G. Would 
you tell me what it would mean for rural Americans? Will they 
have access to these 5G home broadband services?
    Mr. Bergmann. Yes, thank you for the focus on fixed 
wireless for 5G home. It is an absolutely key growth area. And 
our companies national and regional are all investing in it. We 
see them covering tens of millions of homes today. Together, 
they will cover over 200 million homes over just the next 
couple of years.
    The key, I think, for this committee is you all have just 
made an enormous investment in making sure that everyone is 
connected with the $40 billion through the infrastructure 
legislation. Fixed wireless can play a key role there by going 
faster, and providing the full complement of services that this 
committee is looking for. These services can provide 100 
megabits down, 20 megabits up, and are really key for 
connecting everyone faster, more cheaply, and bringing 
competitive choice to the home broadband market.
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Bergmann.
    And thank you, Mr. Chair, and I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes 
Congresswoman Rice for 5 minutes.
    Miss Rice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to thank 
our colleague, Mr. Bilirakis, for raising the issue of the 
importance of the MOU between the NTIA and the FCC. And I think 
it is really, really important that it be fixed. Everyone has 
acknowledged that maybe it is not where it needs to be, and I 
think that is really important.
    Government and industry working together has allowed the 
U.S. to be the global leader in new and emerging wireless 
technology. We were the first nation with widespread 4G 
coverage, leading to countless innovations here in the U.S., 
including the development of the app economy. Now, with the 
emergence of 5G and next generation Wi-Fi capabilities, the 
U.S. can build on this leadership record, grow our economy, and 
be on the forefront of technological innovation for the good of 
communities everywhere.
    Mr. Guice, you mentioned the importance of coordinated 
spectrum management. It seems that recent spectrum disputes 
involved parties that questioned the finality of the FCC's 
decisions. How can Congress ensure that parties with interests 
in a spectrum band are able to have their voices heard early in 
the process and, at the same time, allow FCC to reach a final 
decision that everyone can count on in making investment and 
development decisions?
    Mr. Guice. Thank you so much, Congresswoman. It is a great 
question.
    And, you know, as this committee and as the chairman and 
ranking member have highlighted, reinforcing that interagency 
process and insisting on it being followed is the best step. 
And the oversight of this committee on that process is 
extremely helpful in producing that finality. So I encourage 
this committee to stay very active on that with members around 
the--around Congress that are quite often approached by private 
entities and on behalf of some of the Federal agencies that 
they regulate to get involved in this process. So it is a 
difficult one to fix.
    That said, you know, there is a public process that is run, 
and these entities--these private entities, the government 
agencies--should all participate fully in bringing those--that 
information to the record, so that we can make an evidence-
based decision. I think, as Ms. Brown testified, you know, it 
is a sad fact that, at the end of the process--in fact, after 
the process was done--that we learned that there were these 
concerns with the altimeters and the C-Band. That is just 
inexcusable. There was an opportunity for a public record and 
for data to be submitted to take into account those concerns.
    And so that is sort of how we fix it. We have to insist on 
not only that public participation, but, at the end, when the 
decision has been made in coordination with NTIA and the FCC to 
go forward with these spectrum auctions, that that finality is 
insisted upon, and that there is given no quarter for those 
voices that come in after the fact to try to disrupt it.
    Miss Rice. Ms. Brown, can you explain how disputes over 
spectrum delay deployment of new technologies?
    Ms. Brown. Yes. Probably the principal case of delay 
involves the transportation spectrum at the top end of the 5 
gigahertz band, which has lingered now for some years.
    The FCC, a few years ago, a couple of years ago, had 
decided that some of that spectrum should be made available for 
Wi-Fi, and cut back the amount of transportation spectrum. That 
continues to be disputed by the transportation industry, which 
would like more spectrum available for communications, 
networking of vehicles on the road for safety purposes, et 
cetera. But that is a prime case where the user community and 
the transportation sector and the FCC had different visions for 
the same spectrum.
    So now we are waiting around for a court case that will be 
resolved soon that will tell us what the future of that band 
is. And I certainly hope that, once that is resolved, and if it 
is resolved in the FCC's favor, that the FCC can promptly go 
forward and DoT can promptly go forward with implementing 
transportation solutions in the spectrum that is that is left 
for ITS.
    Miss Rice. Thank you. Thank you to all the witnesses.
    And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlewoman yields back. The Chair 
recognizes Congresswoman Eshoo for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this 
hearing. Let me begin by addressing something to Mr. Bergmann.
    I thought that Mr. Carter asked you a very good question, 
and I was very anxious to hear your answer, but I didn't hear 
it.
    The most recent annual speed tests by PC Mag found that 
Verizon and AT&T's 5G speeds in several cities are comparable 
or sometimes even slower than their 4G speeds. To make matters 
worse, consumers sometimes have to pay more for 5G by upgrading 
their device or their plan.
    Now, I do understand that there are reasons that speeds 
aren't optimal yet relative to 5G, but this practice of 
advertising faster speeds--and yes, I did watch the Super Bowl, 
along with millions of others, and one ad after another about 
complete 5G across the country. You know, all that advertising, 
and charging for it while delivering lower speeds, it seems to 
me like a highly misleading practice to me.
    So my question is simple: Why are Americans
    [inaudible] more for slower wireless speeds?
    And if you could just be--you know, condense your answer.
    Mr. Bergmann. Absolutely. Well, thank you for the question, 
Congresswoman, I am glad to have a chance to answer it----
    Ms. Eshoo. Really, thank you. I know it is a tough one. So 
thank you for saying thank you to a tough question.
    Mr. Bergmann. Well, so I would highlight a couple of 
things.
    One, we continue to see wireless speeds go up, year after 
year. They are up 85 times since 2010, up 360 percent since 
2000----
    Ms. Eshoo. I mean, 2010 was 12 years ago, so I don't know--
did you--let me ask this. Did you read this article? Are you 
aware----
    Mr. Bergmann. Congresswoman, I----
    Ms. Eshoo. I mean, it was----
    Mr. Bergmann. I have not seen that article, but I know that 
speeds continue to go up year over year, and prices continue to 
go down year after year in the wireless market.
    And so we think it is critical that consumers have accurate 
information about what they are purchasing. So I would 
absolutely agree with you about that. But we are incredibly 
excited about the advancements in speed that we see from 
competition, and the increasing value that we see for 
consumers.
    Ms. Eshoo. Yes, well, I appreciate your words, but they 
are--they really don't--you are not answering the question that 
I posed.
    There is heavy advertising, but what is being advertised is 
not so. It just isn't so. And it can be documented that it is 
not so. And consumers are, you know, are being told that they--
well, the advertising simply is misleading. But I understand 
why you don't want to acknowledge it, because it is 
uncomfortable to. But I think the problem remains.
    Going to Mr. Guice, I appreciate your view that Congress, 
you know, should ensure that spectrum proceeds are obviously 
used in the public interest. One of the issues that I have been 
on for, oh, my goodness, a decade and a half, is NextGen 911.
    Is there anyone on the panel that thinks that 911, NextGen 
911, should not be a part of the proceeds of future auctions? 
Is there anyone that doesn't think that? You could raise your 
hand.
    And just to remind everyone, these are our--this is our 
public safety system. And I think that, once and for all, we 
really need to address this, and make sure that every 
community, whether they are rural, suburban, urban, that we 
have a solid system for law enforcement, for firefighters. We 
owe that to the American people. They dial 911, they need 
someone to answer. So I really look forward to making sure that 
spectrum funds, or part of those funds actually go to 911.
    It is music to my ears to hear so many members and 
witnesses talking about unlicensed. They have been on that for 
a long, long time. So I am not going to spend any time on it, 
or ask questions because I just want to highlight that it is a 
delight that everyone knows, especially Members, of the high 
value of unlicensed, because it is the innovation platform.
    So with that, Mr. Chairman----
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    Ms. Eshoo [continuing]. I will yield back my two seconds.
    Mr. Doyle. I thank the gentlelady. Mr. Curtis, welcome. You 
have 5 minutes.
    Mr. Curtis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Ranking Member 
and our committee members. I am just going to climb up on a 
soapbox for a half a second, and then I will ask some 
questions. And it is really dealing with the rollout of C-Band 
and this--the concerns that we saw with that.
    I think we all understand that the stakeholders need to be 
involved, but doing that up on the front end--and it just feels 
like, if we are really going to beat our competitors, primarily 
China, at this game, that we have got to be better on our game 
than that.
    Now, let me climb off the soapbox and talk about my 
district just a little bit. I have a very rural district. I 
like to laugh at my colleagues back East that say they have 
rural, and would invite them out to Utah to see real rural. And 
my definition of rural is you have to drive three hours without 
seeing a structure. And that is how my district is. I have got 
vast amounts of rural parts of Utah. I have got the Navajo 
Indian Reservation, and I wanted to just touch on that, Mr. 
Bergmann, for a second.
    Currently, the Indian tribes have been given priority in 
the 2.5 gigahertz spectrum rollout. And yes, I am glad, I mean, 
right? We have got to help these good people. Imagine, I have 
got some people without running water, electricity, let alone 
broadband in parts of this--part of my district.
    And we all know--and then I think the intention is to 
eventually have the rest of the auction. And we all know how--
we have talked about it in this hearing, how important these 
auctions are. But I am a little concerned that supply chain 
issues--there could be a delay out--of the rollout to the 
tribal nations, and then separately a delay in the auction.
    So, Mr. Bergmann, given the supply chain issues, do we 
expect any delays to buildout in the tribal lands, and what 
challenges do you see?
    Mr. Bergmann. So thank you, Congressman. And you are 
absolutely right, the challenges that tribes face, I think, are 
unique and incredibly difficult. I think that 2.5 auction is 
sort of key part of that. And so I would encourage the 
committee to move forward with extending auction authority.
    Particularly when you think about deployment challenges, 
certainly supply chain challenges, I think, are something that 
is felt broadly across the economy, and I encourage the 
committee to think about things that we can do there.
    And we need to be creative. The funding that this committee 
made available through the Infrastructure Act will play a key 
role focused on tribal areas, and we need to think about things 
like siting. How do we make sure that we go faster on Federal 
lands? How do we help tribes move more quickly?
    So it really is an all-of-the-above approach for tribal 
areas.
    Mr. Curtis. Yes, so could you comment about this issue of 
delaying the auction? And if that happens, will it expire? And 
what would that do to the whole 5G rollout?
    Mr. Bergmann. So in our 30 years of FCC auction authority, 
we have never had it expire. It is really critical that we have 
auction authority as we are heading into a set of auctions, 
because we want bidders to have certainty so that they know 
that they will be able to use those licenses that they are 
stepping up to invest in.
    Mr. Curtis. So you are telling me don't worry?
    Mr. Bergmann. We definitely need to make sure that auction 
authority----
    Mr. Curtis. OK, good.
    Mr. Bergmann [continuing]. Is extended.
    Mr. Curtis. Good, I am with you on that. Well, and on--let 
me ask you about national spectrum strategy. Is it a good 
option? If so, how do we--which--you know, which agencies and 
things like that--help us, walk us through how we do that 
successfully.
    Mr. Bergmann. Absolutely. I think it will play a key role. 
And I think you have heard a little bit today about the 
challenges of spectrum coordination recently.
    We need to have agencies coordinating, we need to have 
agencies sharing data, and we need the FCC and NTIA at the 
front of that, and would encourage this committee to take an 
important role, as well, too, because you all recognize the 
importance of spectrum, and can help make sure that our 
spectrum policies reflect our national priorities.
    Mr. Curtis. Can you just touch on balancing commercial and 
government interest?
    Mr. Bergmann. Absolutely. It is--you know, particularly 
when we think about mid-band spectrum, which is this key 
ingredient for 5G, our portfolio of mid-band spectrum is 
overweighted toward government today. We know that the U.S. 
Government is the primary user of mid-band spectrum. DoD has 
access to nearly two-thirds of those critical mid-band 
frequencies. We need to find ways to be more efficient, and get 
those Federal Government missions done, and make more spectrum 
available for 5G.
    Mr. Curtis. Yes, it has actually been pretty incredible, 
the innovation, right, that has come about in how we use 
spectrum, and I think----
    Mr. Bergmann. In the wireless industry we invest tens of 
billions of dollars every year to have new generations of 
technology to be more efficient. We need to make sure we are 
doing the same thing on the government side, too.
    Mr. Curtis. Thank you.
    Ms. Stancavage, the U.S. prepares--as the U.S. prepares for 
the next World Radio Communication Conference, how can Congress 
be supportive, right?
    And how do we continue to show American leadership?
    Ms. Stancavage. Thank you for the question, Mr. 
Congressman.
    I think the most important thing is to make sure that the 
U.S. is an early actor, that we are identifying early which 
bands are potentially available, and then following through 
into the commercialization process, so that it is very clear 
where we are going with this. And anything Congress can do to 
support in terms of identifying spectrum early, opportunities, 
and that making sure that it follows through would be really 
welcome.
    Mr. Curtis. Good.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Curtis. Thank you. I yield, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Doyle. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Matsui for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And as co-
chair of the congressional Spectrum Caucus, along with Mr. 
Guthrie, I want to thank you for holding this important 
hearing.
    Spectrum governance is a fundamental part of sustaining 
America's competitive edge in the 21st century, from 5 and 6, 
Wi-Fi 6, and the satellite broadband, it is important that the 
Federal Government is speaking with one voice to move us 
forward.
    I have a question regarding spectrum pipeline. To ensure 
that the United States remains a global pacesetter in wireless 
communications technology, a reliable pipeline for spectrum is 
needed. We have exciting opportunities coming up in the 2.5 and 
3 gigahertz bands. Beyond that, the picture becomes less clear.
    I believe the 7 gigahertz band presents a meaningful 
opportunity to keep our pipelines strong. However, given the 
amount of Federal users in that band, we need to proceed 
carefully with a whole-of-government approach. And that is why 
I sent a letter to NTI Administrator Davidson yesterday, urging 
him to commit to finishing the 2019 study on 7 gigahertz.
    Mr. Guice and Mr. Bergmann, can you describe the 
characteristics of the 7 gigahertz band, and how they might be 
put to use to support commercial operations?
    Mr. Guice. Thank you, Congresswoman Matsui, and thank you 
for your leadership on spectrum issues. You have really been a 
great asset for everybody to have on these issues.
    What I would say is that this is another example where 
mixed access regimes will be beneficial to the outcome. You 
know, what we learned in CBRS was that, based on spectrum 
coordination over a period of years, four to five years of 
coordination, hearing the agencies out, and working through the 
NTIA and FCC interagency process, only after that period of 
hearing folks and really taking in their perspective did we get 
to a situation where we could utilize the most of that band in 
7 gigahertz, where there are very sensitive military systems, 
and a real need for DoD to have its voice heard through the 
NTIA process. Only by doing that can we really utilize this 
band to its fullest potential.
    Ms. Matsui. OK.
    Mr. Guice. Like I indicated, I think the lower 7 gigahertz 
is a real opportunity for unlicensed. But we do see that there 
might be licensed opportunities.
    But I think only by going in with that sort of open mind 
for a variety of access regimes can we get the Federal agencies 
to really focus on what the realm of the possible is for----
    Ms. Matsui. [Inaudible]----
    Mr. Guice [continuing]. That band.
    Ms. Matsui. And Mr. Bergmann, do you have any more comments 
on that?
    Mr. Bergmann. Thank you, Congresswoman. We certainly 
appreciate your leadership on spectrum issues. Thank you for 
your letter today on--focused on the 7 gigahertz band.
    We have talked a lot about the importance of mid-band, and 
the 7 gigahertz band is a huge band. It is 1,300 megahertz. As 
you have heard, there are important Federal systems there, but 
there are also opportunities to be more efficient with how we 
use that spectrum. So we would certainly encourage and follow 
your lead in terms of, you know, asking our Federal Government 
policymakers to look at how we can make some of that spectrum 
available.
    We know that that spectrum has been under study since 2019, 
and there are real opportunities there for licensed spectrum. 
So thank you for your leadership on that. We would love to 
continue working with you to see that included in a spectrum 
pipeline bill.
    Ms. Matsui. Certainly, thank you.
    And in September of this year, the FCC's auction authority 
is set to expire. This authority underpins America's ability to 
really bring new spectrum to market, and stay ahead of the 
other countries in the race to 5G and beyond. Extending this 
authority can and should be bipartisan. And with implications 
for the next 2.5 gigahertz auction, it should happen as soon as 
possible.
    Mr. Guice, do you believe--and I think this question was 
asked somewhat before--do you believe tying auction revenue to 
investments in things like NextGen 911 would be--9-1-1--would 
be a useful way to help modernize America's communications 
infrastructure?
    Mr. Guice. Yes. Over the last decades, what we have seen is 
that auction revenues can be substantial, and they should be 
put to use to advance our public interest needs. NG911 is a 
critical need. Congress had looked at providing some of that 
funding as part of the IIJA. Unfortunately, that didn't get 
there. So if we need to use auction revenues to do that, let's 
do that, and let's also think about digital equity.
    Ms. Matsui. OK, fine. And Mr. Bergmann, how can extending 
auction authority quickly increase the likelihood of a 
successful 2.5 auction?
    And I think I have run out of time, but maybe you can make 
a couple of comments----
    Mr. Bergmann. I would just say----
    Ms. Matsui. A 5-second comment.
    Mr. Bergmann. I would say quickly, you know, auctions are 
the bedrock of our mobile wireless networks, including 5G. And 
bidders in auctions need to have certainty about getting access 
to spectrum. So getting that auction authority extended is 
really critical.
    Ms. Matsui. OK. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, I----
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    Ms. Matsui [continuing]. Yield back.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman--the Chair recognizes Congressman 
Welch for 5 minutes.
    Peter, can you hear us?
    I can see his video, but I don't think he can hear us.
    Mr. Welch. Hi.
    Mr. Doyle. OK, Peter, you have 5 minutes.
    Mr. Welch. Thank you. I am having sketchy in-and-out 
internet. So if I go off, Mr. Chairman, you know what to do.
    Mr. Doyle. Do you have 5G, Peter?
    Mr. Welch [continuing]. Questions similar to Congresswoman 
Matsui, but I want to ask Mr. Guice.
    Do you agree with Chairwoman Rosenworcel's proposal to use 
auction proceeds to fund NG911 deployment?
    Is there much precedent for allocating auction proceeds to 
fund public interest projects like that?
    Mr. Guice. Thank you, Congressman Welch. Yes, we do support 
it. We think it could be a nice complement to our drive to make 
certain that auction revenues are being used for public 
interest needs, as opposed to flowing into the general treasury 
and leaving the sector.
    So, yes, the NG911 for sure, and there is precedent under 
FirstNet. Back in 2012, Congress designated auction revenues to 
fund that network.
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Doyle. Can you hear us, Peter?
    Mr. Welch. Yes, Mr. Chairman, it is sketchy in and out, so 
I am going to spare you and yield back, and have confidence 
that you will handle this on my behalf.
    Mr. Doyle. OK, the gentleman yields back. The Chair 
recognizes Congressman Cardenas for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Cardenas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Ranking 
Member Latta, for holding this very, very important hearing. I 
think it is really important for people to understand that what 
we are talking about is quite invisible to the American people. 
But at the same time, as you have heard from all these experts 
today, it is incredibly critical for not only the livelihood, 
but the education and the health of people across America.
    So with that, I would like to ask, Mr. Guice, Wi-Fi is the 
most heavily used wireless technology in the world and was born 
in the U.S. Consumers, schools, and businesses rely on it for--
more now than ever before. What actions can Congress and the 
Administration take to continue advancing the development of 
Wi-Fi here in the United States?
    Mr. Guice. Thank you, Congressman Cardenas. Yes, it is 
important that we continue to provide spectrum access 
opportunities for Wi-Fi. It is a key connection point, as Ms. 
Brown recognized.
    You know, whether you are on a 5G network or a fixed 
network, if you are in your home you are likely going through a 
Wi-Fi network. And so making certain that there is sufficient 
spectrum to make that a meaningful connection is important.
    As I mentioned earlier, I think the 7 gigahertz spectrum 
offers a real opportunity to build on what we did in 6 
gigahertz. And so we look forward to working with you and this 
committee to make sure that advances.
    Mr. Cardenas. Speaking of 6 gigahertz, in your testimony 
you support the FCC's recent decision to open up the 5.9 and 6 
gigahertz bands for unlicensed use. What is the next spectrum 
bands that the FCC should consider for unlicensed use?
    Mr. Guice. Thank you. I think that opportunity really is 
in--likely in the 7 gigahertz band. It is adjacent to what is 
going on in six. It would give us an opportunity to take the 
180 megahertz channel, and increase it to 360 megahertz, which 
is going to be critical for Wi-Fi 7. So we look forward to that 
as a real opportunity.
    Mr. Cardenas. And what should we expect to do? What should 
we call on ourselves to do to make sure that rural communities 
and communities of color, tribal lands, et cetera don't fall 
behind on current and future Wi-Fi technologies as they become 
available?
    Mr. Guice. Yes, it is a great opportunity for this 
committee to look at a mix of policies to promote.
    You know, we can talk about digital literacy to make 
certain that our low-income and communities of color have the 
skills necessary and the tools to make the connection to 
broadband, be it wireless or wireline.
    I think, for our tribal communities, pursuing the tribal 
priority windows when we look at spectrum auctions is a 
critical step, and in recognition of their sovereignty.
    And I think just making certain that we understand where 
service is and is not available is critical.
    And, like I mentioned, in the 5G space, making certain that 
we have crowdsourced data to ensure that these small cells that 
are operating in our 5G, are delivering 5G technologies are 
being delivered to our rural and urban corridors so that those 
communities that live in those have opportunities to get that 
access.
    Mr. Cardenas. So Mr. Guice, it is going to take a true 
public-private partnership to make sure that we don't leave 
people behind.
    Mr. Guice. Absolutely. That is going to be critical. These 
are, quite often, communities that are vulnerable, and they are 
highly dependent on government making certain that their needs 
are represented in policy. They don't quite have the lobbying 
capabilities of some of our larger companies, and so it is 
incumbent upon members like you to represent those needs.
    Mr. Cardenas. Is there a battle of the bands going out 
there, Mr. Guice, when it comes to public safety, et cetera?
    I know that it was mentioned more than once about the 
Department of Defense having a large segment of spectrum within 
their purview.
    Mr. Guice. So look, the government needs the spectrum that 
it needs, and we want to be respectful of that. But we do 
believe, with others on this panel, that there can be more 
efficient use of that spectrum.
    The key is going to be working through a collaborative 
process with those agencies and the direction of this 
committee, that there are certain bands of spectrum that need 
to be thought of as coming online for commercialization to 
further those opportunities. But if we approach it in a 
collaborative and cooperative spirit, and really listen to 
their concerns, I think we have a real opportunity to open up 
more of this spectrum and to accommodate their needs, be it 
licensed or where a government agency needs to stay through 
sharing, open access spectrum opportunities. All of that needs 
to be on the table, and they need to feel comfortable with 
coming forward in an environment where those interests will be 
respected.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Cardenas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Doyle. So I think we have gone through our committee 
members, and I see my good friend and fellow Pennsylvanian, Mr. 
Joyce, who is waiving on.
    And I yield you 5 minutes, sir.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Chairman Doyle, another 
Pennsylvanian, and Ranking Member Latta, for allowing me to 
waive onto this important communication and technology 
subcommittee hearing. And thanks to all of the witnesses for 
appearing with us here today.
    Spectrum is vital in ensuring the connectivity for all 
Americans, especially the constituents in my district in 
Pennsylvania. Mr. Todd, how would you have a national spectrum 
strategy or certainty about what spectrum bands the FCC intends 
to auction help increase participation by regional providers 
like HTC (sic)?
    Mr. Todd. Thank you for the question. So for HTC, having a 
plan allows us to better prepare and plan and have an 
understanding of what spectrum would be allowed to be able to 
support in the areas that we serve. So for us, it means faster 
expansion of access to areas that need service.
    Mr. Joyce. And that expansion to access is so important 
within my district in Pennsylvania. My constituents are looking 
forward to this being present.
    Mr. Bergmann, wireless carriers utilize low, mid, and high-
band spectrum in different ways. But recent focus has been 
placed on making mid-band spectrum available. How should 
Congress be thinking about these various spectrum bands as we 
consider how best to keep the pipeline full?
    Mr. Bergmann. Thank you, Congressman. That is exactly 
right. The focus for 5G right now is on mid-band spectrum, and, 
you know, we would urge this committee to move forward with a 
series of directed auctions to create a pipeline of mid-band 
spectrum for 5G, and then for 6G.
    There are candidate bands that we have talked about a 
little bit, the lower 3 gigahertz band, the 7 gigahertz band, 
the 4 gigahertz band. All of these provide the capacity and the 
coverage that we need to make sure that we can connect 
everyone, and that we can continue to lead in innovation.
    Mr. Joyce. Mr. Todd, how does HTC utilize its spectrum 
across various bands to serve constituents like mine in rural 
America, in Adams County, outside of Gettysburg, in Bedford, in 
Fulton, in Huntington County? How does HTC look to achieve 
that?
    Mr. Todd. Thank you. For HTC--I definitely can't speak to 
the areas in Pennsylvania that you serve, but in rural 
communities that are adjacent to our service area, we look at 
additional spectrum as that needed tool for us to be able to 
expand access.
    Specifically for us, hotspots and mobility are essential. 
We have areas today where technicians are unable to connect 
wirelessly in certain areas. We are using wired fiber 
facilities to complete orders, but we need mobility to be able 
to access and to communicate back with our offices to ensure 
efficient operations. So moving forward there, it allows us to 
be able to provide access quicker, more reliable access, and to 
serve more areas. Thank you.
    Mr. Joyce. FCC Chair Rosenworcel recently announced that 
the FCC will begin an auction of additional bands this summer. 
What benefits, Mr. Todd, specifically for rural Americans would 
these additional auctions make available?
    Mr. Todd. Thank you again. For us, it is consumer choice 
and competition are essential for additional bands of spectrum 
to be rolled out. In our opinion, having the availability and 
capacity for additional bandwidth is essential to achieve what 
your objectives are.
    Mr. Joyce. Again, I would like to thank all the witnesses 
for your participation here today. I would like to thank Chair 
Doyle for allowing me to waive on to this important hearing. 
Thank you, and I yield.
    Mr. Doyle. Thank you. The gentleman yields back. I see we 
do have one more committee member who has come on. So we will 
yield 5 minutes to Congresswoman Kelly.
    Ms. Kelly. Thank you, Chairman Doyle, for holding this 
hearing today. Spectrum issues don't often grab headlines. When 
they do, as we have seen recently, they suddenly are top of 
mind in national news. It is my hope that the renewed 
commitment of cooperation, including a forthcoming updated MOU 
between NTIA and the FCC will help ensure we don't have public 
spats around spectrum usage in the future.
    As 5G continues to roll out, and the planning for 6G and 
beyond begins, it is important that the U.S. maintain its 
leadership position in deploying advanced wireless 
technologies. The government and the private sector must work 
closely to align technical specifications and investments to 
allow for quick, robust adoption nationwide.
    Ms. Stancavage, in your testimony you spoke about how 
developers need to know which spectrum bands might be available 
to foster U.S. technology leadership. Can you walk us through 
the decisions that need to be made at both the international 
and national levels so a company like Intel can begin investing 
in chips to support future generations of Wi-Fi, 5G, and 
successive wireless technologies?
    Ms. Stancavage. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman 
Kelly.
    So when we look through the process, what we look at is to 
determine a new spectrum--when a new spectrum band comes 
online, you need to have the relevant components available, as 
well. So you need to have radios, you need to have filters, et 
cetera. So what we try to do is make sure that we understand 
the international environment where markets are. Typically, the 
U.S. has been in the front of that, in terms of identifying 
spectrum bands. And then we are able to take that and determine 
sort of when we would need to intercept in the product 
development timeline.
    When we look back at 5G, we actually completed our 
analysis, and we are starting to intercept product timelines in 
September 2015 for a decision that the international community 
did not make until November 2019. That gives you a sense of how 
long it takes to make sure that you have everything in place to 
support what is going to be needed at--for global economies of 
scale. And we look forward to making sure that the U.S. is able 
to be in a place to do something similar with respect to 6G.
    Ms. Kelly. Thank you.
    Ms. Brown, do you have anything to add on to the importance 
of strong, consistent U.S. leadership on spectrum issues to a 
company like Cisco?
    Ms. Brown. Yes, thank you very much. Ms. Stancavage spoke 
about the importance of identifying spectrum bands early so 
that industry can plan and have equipment available.
    Outside of the ITU process--for example, in unlicensed 
spectrum--U.S. leadership plays a crucial role, and we have 
seen in the last two years since the FCC opened up the 6 
gigahertz band--again, at Congress's direction from the MOBILE 
NOW Act--that an enormous number of countries are following 
suit. So this is all due to the fact that the FCC was the first 
mover, and people are paying attention and wanting the same 
kinds of innovation in their economies that we are getting 
here.
    So a very important issue to pay attention to, and I thank 
you for the question.
    Ms. Kelly. It is safe to assume--thank you--that consumers 
and business will only connect more devices, and use more data 
in the future. So we need to prepare now, so that our networks 
can support this dramatic increase in demand.
    Ms. Brown, I understand we will need to make more spectrum 
available for licensed and unlicensed use to meet these 
anticipated network demands. What do you believe are the 
spectrum bands that we will need to free up first to allow for 
the rapid deployment of advanced wireless technologies?
    Ms. Brown. Thank you for the question.
    The first issue, of course, is getting the 2.5 auction 
across the finish line. So we need auction reauthorization to 
get that done.
    I think the panel here is in agreement that the lower 3 
gigahertz band needs to be carefully examined by NTIA, the 
constituent Federal agencies, and the FCC to determine what can 
be done in the lower 3 gigahertz band. I cannot emphasize 
enough how important 3 gigahertz spectrum is in the 5G 
networks, globally. So anything we can do there is good.
    There are other bands in play for--potentially, for the 
future. Mr. Bergmann brought up the 4 gigahertz band. That is a 
band that is being used by 5G in the Asia region. That might--
we might want to look at that. And 7 gigahertz, depending on 
what is in there, could be a band of interest, as well, either 
for unlicensed, licensed, or both.
    Ms. Kelly. Thank you so much, and my time is up.
    I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentlewoman yields back.
    Mr. Walberg, I can't tell you how happy we are that you 
were able to join us here at the last minute.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Doyle. And it is my great pleasure to yield 5 minutes 
to you.
    Mr. Walberg. Mr. Chairman, you are so kind, and that is 
exactly why I came back, to join you, to bring that joy.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Walberg. I didn't think my amendments in the other 
committee would take so long and cause so much disruption, but 
we will try not to do that here.
    Today's hearing is appropriately named the ``5G and 
Beyond.'' As co-chair of the 5G Caucus, I think we should be 
doing more to educate Members of Congress and staff about the 
opportunities of future generations of wireless networks. The 
promises of 5G and its successors are not just blazing fast 
download speeds for urban centers. They will be key players in 
connecting rural communities like mine, deploying precision 
agriculture, spurring better telehealth services, and more.
    This is why I have directed my staff to begin reaching out 
to stakeholders to ensure that we, as a caucus and a Congress, 
are continuing to march toward 5G and beyond. It is imperative 
that we stay on top of these issues, both at home and abroad 
and, honestly and personally, whether we understand it or not. 
It is something that is coming, and we need it.
    Mr. Bergmann, at home a major factor of wireless leadership 
is ensuring that our spectrum pipeline does not run dry after 
the upcoming 2.5 gigahertz auction. And I am sorry I missed 
Billy's auction that went on here. Have you identified spectrum 
bands that would be good candidates for future 5G use?
    And second, what can Congress do to help identify these 
additional bands?
    Mr. Bergmann. Thank you for your focus on mid-band 
spectrum. It is absolutely critical.
    You know, I would highlight the lower 3 gigahertz band is 
absolutely critical for 5G. This is a place where dozens of 
countries around the world are already using the spectrum. So 
it is really key that we put this to play, and I would 
certainly commend this committee to look at that.
    There are a couple of other bands that I would encourage 
you all to look at, as well, too. The 7 gigahertz band is an 
enormous band that has Federal users in it today with important 
missions, but we think there are opportunities to be more 
efficient with the use of that band, and to make some of that 
band available for commercial license use.
    And then we ought to look at what other countries are 
doing, internationally. The 4 gigahertz band is also being used 
in Asia for mid--for 5G services, as well, too.
    So we ought to be looking at each of these different 
candidates, looking at what the rest of the world is doing, and 
then also leading, as well, too. Just as we did with 600 
megahertz, we can lead on mid-band here in the U.S., and so 
that is critical.
    I would encourage you all, as you think about extending 
auction authority, to make sure that you all do what Congress 
has done each time it has extended authority before, which is 
to set a defined set of auctions.
    Mr. Walberg. Yes, we do need to lead. We can't just get out 
of the way. We need to lead.
    And thank you for looking beyond our borders. Leadership in 
the national standard-setting will allow the U.S. to shape 5G 
policies that benefit American companies and consumers, and not 
bolster the deployment efforts of our adversaries.
    Ms. Stancavage and Ms. Brown, both of your organizations 
have been very active in standard-setting bodies around the 
world. Can--how can U.S. participation in international 
regulatory processes be improved to help us take the lead in 
expanding spectrum for 5G, and going into 6G?
    Ms. Stancavage. Thank you for the question, Congressman 
Walberg.
    So I want to first differentiate between two types of 
standards bodies. For instance, 3GPP is industry-led. The Intel 
representatives there, we are very active there and in others: 
Wi-Fi Alliance, IEEE, et cetera. Those are industry-led. And 
when you look at those, we send our technical experts, the ones 
who are doing the technical innovation and the ones who have 
the expertise in wireless networks and sort of how to best 
increase the technical capabilities of those going forward.
    In the regulatory arena, we have the International 
Telecommunications Union, and that is a place that I have gone 
as a spectrum policy expert. And so that is the group that is 
looking more at, you know, sort of which spectrum bands are 
most applicable, et cetera. And there it is really important 
that we, as the U.S., understand where we are going, what we 
have in the pipeline in the near term, but also over the longer 
term, so we are able to make those priorities apparent, and try 
to get other countries to coalesce around those.
    So I did want to differentiate between the two different 
types of standards bodies.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you.
    Ms. Brown?
    Ms. Brown. I don't have much to add to Ms. Stancavage's 
excellent summation.
    I will say that standards internationally play out in a 
number of venues, and U.S. leadership is critical. For example, 
in the Wi-Fi world we have an industry-led standards group, 
IEEE, that does most of the standardization work. But it turns 
out one of the key entities that does standards for Wi-Fi is 
also the European telecommunication standard agency, ETSI, and 
they are important because a significant part of the world 
follows their standards.
    So by leading here, by leading in IEEE, we have also been 
able to lead in ETSI. So again, being a first mover is very 
important.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you.
    Mr. Doyle. The gentleman's time----
    Mr. Walberg. I yield back.
    Mr. Doyle [continuing]. Has expired.
    Seeing no more members, the Chair requests unanimous 
consent to enter the following records and other information 
into the record: a letter from a broad range of 20 carriers and 
members of the wireless ecosystem urging Congress to extend the 
FCC spectrum auction authority; a letter from Digital Liberty 
to the House Subcommittee on Communications and Technology.
    Without objection, that is so ordered.
    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]
    Mr. Doyle. I want to thank our witnesses for their 
participation in today's hearing.
    I would remind members that, pursuant to committee rules, 
they have ten business days to submit additional questions for 
the record to be answered by the witnesses who have appeared. 
And I would ask the witnesses to please respond promptly to any 
such questions that you may receive.
    At this time, the committee is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 1:30 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
    [Material submitted for inclusion in the record follows:]
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