[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE HISTORY AND CONTINUED CONTRIBUTIONS
OF TRIBAL COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES
=======================================================================
HEARING
Before The
SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION
AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, JULY 19, 2022
__________
Serial No. 117-51
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Labor
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via: edworkforce.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
58-474 PDF WASHINGTON : 2025
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COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR
ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia, Chairman
RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina,
JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut Ranking Member
GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN, JOE WILSON, South Carolina
Northern Marina Islands GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania
FREDERICA WILSON, Florida TIM WALBERG, Michigan
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin
MARK TAKANO, California ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York
ALMA S. ADAMS, North Carolina RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia
MARK DeSAULNIER, California JIM BANKS, Indiana
DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey JAMES COMER, Kentucky
PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington RUSS FULCHER, Idaho
JOSEPH D. MORELLE, New York FRED KELLER, Pennsylvania
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa
LUCY McBATH, Georgia BURGESS OWENS, Utah
JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut BOB GOOD, Virginia
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan, Vice Chairman LISA McCLAIN, Michigan
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota DIANA HARSHBARGER, Tennessee
HALEY M. STEVENS, Michigan MARY MILLER, Illinios
TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, New Mexico VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
MONDAIRE JONES, New York SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
KATHY MANNING, North Carolina MADISON CAWTHORN, North Carolina
FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana MICHELLE STEEL, California
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York CHRIS JACOBS, New York
SHEILA CHERFILUS-McCORMICK, Florida VACANCY
MARK POCAN, Wisconsin VACANCY
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director
Cyrus Artz, Minority Staff Director
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT
FREDERICA WILSON, Florida, Chairwoman
MARK TAKANO, California MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa,
PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington Ranking Member
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin
TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, Minnesota ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York
MONDAIRE JONES, New York JIM BANKS, Indiana
KATHY E. MANNING, North Carolina JAMES COMER, Kentucky
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York RUSS FULCHER, Idaho
MARK POCAN, Wisconsin BOB GOOD, Virginia
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas LISA McCLAIN, Michigan
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey DIANA HARSHBARGER, Tennessee
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona CHRIS JACOBS, New York
JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina (Ex
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon Officio)
ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia VACANCY
(Ex Officio)
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on July 19, 2022.................................... 1
OPENING STATEMENTS
Bonamici, Hon. Suzanne, Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Higher
Education and Workforce Investment:........................ 1
Prepared statement of.................................... 5
Miller-Meeks, Hon. Mariannette, Ranking Member, Subcommittee
on Higher Education and Workforce Investment:.............. 6
Prepared statement of.................................... 8
WITNESSES
Lindquist, Dr. Cynthia, President, Cankdeska Cikana Community
College
Prepared statement of.................................... 11
Billy, Carrie, President & CEO, American Indian Higher
Education Consortium (AIHEC)............................... 15
Prepared statement of.................................... 18
Akers, Dr. Beth, Senior Fellow, American Enterprise Institute 34
Prepared statement of.................................... 37
Boham, Dr. Sandra, President, Salish Kootenai College........ 40
Prepared statement of.................................... 42
QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD
Responses to questions submitted for the record by:
Ms. Carrie L. Billy...................................... 68
Dr. Cynthia Lindquist.................................... 72
THE HISTORY AND CONTINUED
CONTRIBUTIONS OF TRIBAL COLLEGES
AND UNIVERSITIES
----------
Tuesday, July 19, 2022
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce
Investment,
Committee on Education and Labor,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:20 a.m.,
2175 Rayburn Office Building, Hon. Suzanne Bonamici (Chairwoman
of the Subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Leger Fernandez, Bowman, Pocan,
Espaillat, Scott (Ex Officio), Miller-Meeks, Grothman,
Stefanik, Comer, Good, Harshbarger, Jacobs, and Foxx (Ex
Officio).
Staff present: Brittany Alston, Staff Assistant; Amaris
Benavidez, Fellow; Jessica Bowen Gall, Professional Staff;
Nekea Brown, Director of Operations; Rashage Green, Director of
Education Policy; Christian Haines, General Counsel; Rasheedah
Hasan, Chief Clerk; Sheila Havenner, Director of Information
Technology; Sharon Kwon, Professional Staff; Stephanie Lalle,
Communications Director; Kota Mizutani, Deputy Communication
Director; Max Moore, Staff Assistant; Kayla Pennebecker, Staff
Assistant; Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director; Dhrtvan Sherman,
Staff Assistant; Banyon Vassar, Deputy Director of Information
Technology; Sam Varie, Press Secretary; Claire Viall,
Professional Staff; ArRone Washington, Clerk and Special
Assistant to the Staff Director; Cyrus Artz, Minority Staff
Director; Cody Christensen, Minority Research Assistant; Cate
Dillon, Minority Director of Operations; Mini Ganesh, Minority
Staff Assistant; Amy Raaf Jones, Minority Director of Education
and Human Resources Policy; Hannah Matesic, Minority Director
of Member Services and Coalitions; Audra McGeorge, Minority
Communications Director; Eli Mitchell, Minority Legislative
Assistant; Ethan Pann, Minority Press Assistant; Gabriella
Pistone, Minority Staff Assistant; Krystina Skurk, Minority
Speechwriter; Mary Christina Riley, Minority Professional Staff
Member; Chance Russell, Minority Professional Staff Member;
Mandy Schaumburg, Minority Chief Counsel and Deputy Director of
Education Policy; and Billy Wade, Minority Research Assistant.
Chairwoman Bonamici. We will come to order. Welcome
everyone. I note that a quorum is present. The subcommittee is
meeting today to hear testimony today on the history and
continued contributions of tribal colleges and universities.
This is a hybrid hearing pursuant to House Resolution 8, and
the regulations thereto.
All microphones both in the room and on the platform will
be kept muted as a general rule to avoid unnecessary background
noise. Members and witnesses will be responsible for unmuting
themselves when they are recognized to speak, or when they wish
to seek recognition.
When members wish to speak or seek recognition, they should
unmute themselves and allow for a pause of 2 seconds to ensure
the microphone picks up your speech. I also ask that members
please identify themselves before they speak. Members who are
participating in person should not be logged on to the remote
platform to avoid feedback, echoes and distortion.
Members participating remotely shall be considered present
in the proceeding when they are visible on camera, and they
shall be considered not present when they are not visible on
camera. The only exception to this is if they are experiencing
technical difficulty and inform committee staff of such
difficulty.
If any member experiences technical difficulty during the
hearing, you should stay connected on the platform, make sure
you are muted, and use your phone to immediately call the
committee's IT director whose number was provided in advance.
Should the Chair need to step away for any reason, Chairman
Scott, or another majority member is hereby authorized to
assume the gavel in the Chair's absence. To ensure that the
committee's 5-minute rule is adhered to, staff will be keeping
track of time using the committee's digital timer on the remote
platform.
For members participating in person, the timer will be
broadcast in the committee room on the television monitor as
part of the platform gallery view, and visible in its own
thumbnail window. The committee room timer will not be in use.
For members participating remotely this will be visible in
gallery view in its own thumbnail window on the remote
platform. Members are asked to wrap up promptly when their time
has expired.
Finally, while the recent guidance from the Office of
Attending Physician has made mask wearing optional at this
time, please know that we have in our midst, both at the member
and staff levels, individuals who are immunocompromised and/or
who have immediate family members who are immunocompromised as
well as who are not vaccinated either due to medical reasons,
or because the vaccine is not yet available to all children
under 6 months of age.
Therefore, the committee strongly recommends that masks
continue to be worn out of the concern for the safety of the
unvaccinated and immunocompromised members and staff, and their
families.
Pursuant to committee rule 8(c), opening statements are
limited to the Chair and the Ranking Member. This allows us to
hear from our witnesses sooner and provides all members with
adequate time to ask questions. I recognize myself for the
purpose of making an opening statement.
Thank you to my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, and
to the witnesses for being here this morning. Today we are
meeting to discuss the unique history and value of tribal
colleges and universities, or TCUs. This is our third hearing
this Congress to examine institutions that are critical to
serving historically underserved students.
Tribal colleges and universities were founded in part to
help combat cultural erasure after the systematic decimation of
Native communities. These communities have been deeply marked
by historical trauma, stemming in part from the use of
education as a tool of government forced assimilation.
TCUs now play a critical role in protecting and preserving
culture and traditions. They also provide support to Native
American students to help them succeed and meaningfully
contribute to the self-governance of their nations.
Today there are 35 accredited TCUs serving more than 27,000
students representing more than 250 federally recognized
tribes. Each of these 35 institutions plays a critical role in
the education of Native students by providing an affordable,
culturally based education, and a supportive learning
environment.
In addition, these institutions often provide essential
resources to the communities in which they are located.
Northwest Indian College for example, a 2-year TCU in
Bellingham, Washington, is the only tribal college in the
Pacific Northwest, and it serves students from Washington,
Idaho, and my home State of Oregon.
NWIC offers a number of bachelor's and associate's degree
programs that illustrate the unique nature of TCUs. A few
examples of these programs include Native Studies Leadership,
Tribal Governance and Business Management, and Early Childhood
Education. NWIC also has a number of activities, organizations,
and support networks on campus intended to help students
succeed and feel at home on campus.
Beyond providing a culturally based education, and
fostering a sense of belonging, TCUs strive to help Native
students complete their education by taking steps to meet basic
needs, and reducing financial barriers, and the need is great.
A survey of several TCUs in 2019 found that 80 percent of their
students experienced food insecurity, housing insecurity, or
homelessness.
To help address these barriers to completion, TCUs have
built successful, in-house programs that support the basic
needs of their students. Although they have an important role,
TCUs often lack resources because they do not have the same
access to funding from State and local governments as other
colleges and universities.
As a result, TCUs are chronically underfunded, and face
limitations on their institutional capacity to support the
students they serve. For example, it is not uncommon for a
professor to also be an advisor, administrator, and source of
technical support as part of their day to day duties.
Despite these challenges, these institutions are resilient.
They implement innovative programming and solutions to keep
costs down and support their students. To bolster these efforts
and improve student outcomes, we must increase Federal support
for TCUs.
House Democrats delivered unprecedented funding to help
TCUs endure the disproportionate effect of the COVID-19
pandemic on Native communities. Through three COVID relief
bills, including the American Rescue Plan, Congress delivered
367 million dollars in targeted funding to TCUs.
These funds helped prevent students from experiencing
homelessness, hunger, and other hardships, and provided
institutions with resources to protect the health and safety of
campus communities during the pandemic.
Although these bills provided desperately needed aid to
students and institutions, we know TCUs need sustained and
enhanced investments if they are to continue to fulfill the
legacy of promise of higher education.
I look forward to learning more from today's witnesses
about the successes of TCUs, the challenges they face, and how
Congress can deliver the support these vital institutions need
to continue to provide a high-quality affordable education for
generations to come. I want to thank our distinguished
witnesses again for being with us today, and I now am happy to
yield to the new Ranking Member, Mrs. Miller-Meeks for her
opening statement.
[The statement of Chairwoman Bonamici follows:]
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Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Chairwoman Bonamici.
Republicans value the role of all minority serving
institutions, including tribal colleges and universities, but
my colleagues and I have participated in the two previous
hearings on minority serving institutions, and today is the
third. The Democrats have held no hearing dedicated to fixing
the spiraling student loan catastrophe.
Respectfully, I must ask what are Democrats afraid of? Are
they afraid republicans will call them out for doubling down on
a failing system? Are they afraid republicans will point out
their student loan forgiveness scheme will do nothing to
address the skyrocketing cost of college?
Or are they afraid that republicans will point out that
congressional Democrats have turned a blind eye to executive
overreach? Whatever the reason, it is time for Democrats to do
what is right for the American people. All students, including
those at TCUs are impacted by our broken, postsecondary
education system, which creates an incentive for higher tuition
cost, poor student outcomes, and unaffordable debt for many
Americans.
Over the last 50 years, we have seen college costs rise at
over five times the rate of inflation, causing students and
their parents to borrow more. Something has gone wrong. Instead
of fixing the root cause of our student debt problems, such as
ballooning college cost, and lack of accountability for poor
performing programs, Democrats are content doing nothing, and
doing what they always do--throwing more money at the problem
and expecting a different outcome.
Instead of looking at data to determine who is borrowing
more and why, and reforming the system, Democrats are pursuing
misguided, massive student loan forgiveness. This is a major
mistake. Let us be clear about one thing, there is no such
thing as student loan forgiveness. These loans do not go away.
Democrats are simply making a massive transfer of wealth from
hard-working taxpayers to the most affluent in our society.
These policies are reverse Robin Hoods, taking from the
poor to pay the rich. That is exactly what the Democrats want
to do. Blanket student loan forgiveness is irresponsible. It is
unfair to force those that never went to college to foot the
bill for those who did.
Why should a factory worker, or a farmer in Iowa, pay for a
lawyer's graduate degree? What about those who worked hard for
years to pay off their loans, or never took out loans? The
student that purposely chose a less expensive college to save
money? Is it fair to ask these individuals to pay for someone
else's degree? No.
Further, if Democrats believe student loan debt is a
problem, why are they not willing to hold a hearing on the
topic? By not holding a hearing, or asking the tough questions
about fixing our loan system, Democrats are showing that they
are comfortable ceding their congressional authority to the
Biden administration, who in the last year and a half has
already extended the repayment pause four times without
legitimate reason, and is changing the rules for multiple
programs--changes that would not pass Congress.
It is time for the congressional Democrats to take their
legislative duties seriously and work across the aisle to
reform our Federal student loan system. The status quo is not
an option. Thank you, chairwoman, I yield back.
[The statement of Ranking Member Miller-Meeks follows:]
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Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you to the--excuse me, to the
Ranking Member. I do want to note that it is disappointing that
the minority today has chosen not to engage with the premise of
our hearing today, which is to highlight and discuss the
important contributions of tribal colleges and universities.
TCUs have a unique mission of not only educating Native
communities, but also preserving and advancing Native American
culture and traditions. Instead, the minority has decided to
disregard the historic nature of this hearing, and instead try
to co-op this hearing to discuss reforms to the student loan
program, even though we have already had multiple hearings on
the topic.
I am also concerned because only one TCU participates in
the loan program. Our focus needs to be on TCUs today. As our
witnesses will highlight, TCUs play a key role in Native
education by providing students with a holistically supportive
learning environment, and an education that incorporates Native
culture, language and traditions, and further Federal
investment is necessary to ensure these institutions can
continue and expand their important work.
I am going to now introduce the witnesses. First Ms. Carrie
Billy is the President and CEO of the American Indian High
Education Consortium, or AIHEC. Ms. Billy was appointed
President and CEO of AIHEC in 2008. She is an enrolled member
of the Navajo Nation and was appointed by President Clinton as
the Inaugural Executive Director of the White House Initiative
on Tribal Colleges.
Ms. Billy has an undergraduate degree from the University
of Arizona, and also from Salish Kootenai College, and a Juris
Doctorate from Georgetown University Law Center.
Dr. Cynthia Lindquist, Ph.D. is the President of Cankdeska
Cikana or Little Hoop Community College, CCCC. Dr. Lindquist
has served as President of CCCC, a TCU in North Dakota since
2003. Dr. Lindquist received a Ph.D. in educational leadership
from the University of North Dakota. She also holds a master's
in public administration with an emphasis on tribal health
systems from the University of South Dakota, and also a
bachelor's in Indian studies in English from the University of
North Dakota.
Dr. Lindquist is an enrolled member of the Spirit Lake
Dakota Nation. I regret to inform everyone today that Dr.
Lindquist will not be able to testify as part of today's
hearing, but without objection her written statement will be
made part of the hearing record, so ordered.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Lindquist follows.]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairwoman Bonamici. Dr. Elizabeth or Beth J. Akers, Ph.D.
is a Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a
conservative think tank. Previously, she was a Senior Fellow at
the Manhattan Institute. Dr. Akers received a BS in mathematics
and economics from SUNY Albany, and a Ph.D. in economics from
Columbia University.
Dr. Sandra Boham is the President of Salish Kootenai
College. In 2016, Dr. Boham became President of the college, a
TCU located in Montana, after serving as Vice President of
Academic Affairs. Dr. Boham is an enrolled member of the
Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Indian
Reservation.
She earned her Doctorate of Education and Educational
Leadership from the University of Montana. She holds a master's
in education from Montana State University, and a Bachelor of
Arts in Sociology from the University of Montana.
We appreciate the witnesses for participating today, and we
look forward to your testimony. Let me remind the witnesses
that we have read your written statements, and they will appear
in full in the hearing record. Pursuant to Committee Rule 8(d)
and committee practice, each of you is asked to limit your oral
presentation to a 5-minute summary of your written statement.
Before you begin your testimony, please remember to unmute
your microphone. During your testimony staff will be keeping
track of time, and a light will blink when time is up. Please
be attentive to the time. Wrap up when your time is over and
re-mute your microphone. If any of you experience technical
difficulty during your testimony, or later in the hearing,
please stay connected on the platform, make sure you are muted,
and use your phone to immediately call the committee's IT
director whose number was provided in advance.
We will let all the witnesses make their presentations
before we move to member questions. When answering a question
please remember to unmute your microphone. The witnesses are
aware of their responsibility to provide accurate information
to the subcommittee, and therefore we will proceed.
I will first recognize Ms. Billy. You are recognized for 5
minutes for your testimony.
STATEMENT OF MS. CARRIE BILLY, PRESIDENT AND CEO, AMERICAN
INDIAN HIGHER EDUCATION CONSORTIUM
Ms. Billy. I thank Chairwoman Bonamici, Ranking Member
Miller-Meeks, and members of the committee. I am Carrie Billy,
the President and CEO of AIHEC, which is the tribal colleges
and universities. Thank you for inviting me to testify today at
this historic hearing. It really is one of few hearings that
have been held by the Congress on the subject of tribal
colleges, so we appreciate it.
Tribal colleges and universities are part of who we are as
American Indian and Alaska Native people. They emerged from our
history, culture, and spirituality for two reasons--the near
complete failure of the U.S. Higher Education System to meet
the needs of, or even include American Indians and Alaska
Natives, and the need to preserve and revitalize our culture,
languages, lands, our past, and our future.
In the 1960's, a group of Navajo educators came together
and asked our parents how do you want our schools to look?
Simple, but empowering words that had never been asked before.
That question--how do you want our schools to look, led to the
greatest experiment and experience in tribal self-determination
ever, the tribal college movement.
Higher education taught from our own world view, in our own
communities for and by our own people. Carol Davis, who is the
founder of Turtle Mountain Community College in Belcourt, North
Dakota says when we started in the 1970's, there were five
people on her reservation with a college degree. She was not
one of them.
Now there are thousands. It is the same throughout Indian
country, and from that one college on the Navajo Nation, we now
have 35 accredited tribal colleges serving more than 130,000
American Indians and Alaskan Natives, and other rural community
members each year through academic and community-based programs
at more than 75 sites in 15 states.
Our students come from well more than half of all federally
recognized Indian tribes and about 30 states. The goal of every
tribal college is to build our own education system founded on
our ways of knowing, traditional knowledge, and spirituality.
The vision is shared--strong, sovereign, tribal nations,
through excellence in tribal higher education.
Tribal colleges are place based institutions. They take
hope, ideas, and pitifully few dollars, and shape them into
opportunity. They are doing this amid harsh conditions. Most
tribal colleges are located on federally recognized Indian
reservations, rural and remote regions of America with the
highest generational unemployment, and high school dropout
rates in the country.
Tribal colleges are also severely underfunded. The
responsibility for providing operating support for tribal
colleges falls to the Federal Government because of the Federal
trust responsibility, treaty obligations, and the exchange of
over one billion acres of land.
The average TCU receives only about a little more than
$8,000 per Indian student, with no operating support for non-
enrolled tribal members, and little or no funding from the
states, although tribal colleges are public institutions.
$8,000 may sound like a lot per student, but it is not. Tribal
colleges are very small institutions ranging from about 100 to
just under 2,000 students, yet they are accredited by the same
accrediting bodies that accredit other institutions of higher
education.
They offer a range of certificates, associate's and
bachelor's degrees, and even a small number of master's levels
programs, along with extensive community-based education
programs. Anything you need to build the Nation you will find
at tribal colleges. Tribal colleges are nation builders, but
they are affordable nation builders. That is why only one
engages in the student loan program.
The average tribal college tuition is a little over
$3,000.00 per year, yet tribal colleges lead in several areas
in awarding American Indian and Alaskan Native degrees in
accounting, business, construction, natural resource
conservation, computer and information science, and of course
in producing Native teachers and nurses.
Tribal colleges are growing a Native workforce, who
graduate debt free, and contribute to the local tax base. For
example, and they are also doing a lot of other things not
limited to academics. The Tribal College mission extends beyond
that including languages, lands, sovereignty and restoring
identity. In fact, the largest group of Aaniiih Dakota speakers
are Aaniiih speakers today in the world are graduates of the
Aaniiih Dakota College White Clay Immersion School, which the
college operates on its campus.
In the last few seconds, I would like to briefly turn to
the COVID-19 pandemic. In March 2020, going into the pandemic
we knew that tribal colleges had the slowest internet access at
the highest costs using the oldest equipment of any
institutions in the country. Several TCs have never offered
online courses, and only two or three at little, tiny health
centers. 15 percent of our students already had severe mental
health needs.
Those needs have continued to worsen as the pandemic has
continued, and it has hit our institutions as hard as it has
hit our people, statistically worse than anyone or anywhere
else in this country. We continue to need your support, and we
continue to be proud and thankful of the partnership we have
with this important committee. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Carrie Billy follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you, Ms. Billy. Next, I
recognize Dr. Akers for 5 minutes for your testimony.
STATEMENT OF DR. BETH AKERS, SENIOR FELLOW, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE
INSTITUTE
Dr. Akers. Good morning, Chairwoman Wilson, and Ranking
Member Miller-Meeks, and the members of the subcommittee. Thank
you for the opportunity to share my testimony today. I
appreciate that the invitation here today is in regard to the
topic of tribal colleges and universities, an important segment
of our overall system of higher education.
These institutions face a distinct challenge--educating an
otherwise unserved population, often in rural communities,
without thriving, local economies. Unfortunately, these
institutions do not have an impressive track record of
delivering their students into economic opportunity. Tribal
colleges and universities have low graduation rates, with just
20 percent of beginning students completing a degree within 6
years.
Students enrolling at tribal colleges and universities are
not the only ones being let down by our system of higher
education. The students being served annually at tribal
colleges and universities represent just a small share of the
millions of students enrolling in institutions of higher
education in the United States each year.
Investing in education beyond high school is one of the
surest pathways to economic prosperity in the United States.
However, not all students who invest in higher education will
earn the typical return. Some students will end up worse off
financially than when they began. Education beyond high school
is a good investment on average, but it can be a financial
risk.
I believe that the financial risk associated with post-
secondary education is the single greatest impediment to our
system of higher education, better serving both students and
taxpayers. Systemic reform through legislation is necessary to
make investing in higher education less risky for students, and
also to ensure that taxpayer dollars are used efficiently.
This can largely be accomplished through a small number of
deep reforms to the Federal Student Loan Program. First, we
need to prevent colleges with the track record of poor student
outcomes from accessing the Federal Student Aid Program. Too
often, students are borrowing sums of money through the Federal
Student Loan Program that are predictably unaffordable based on
the experiences of previous students.
Instead of using the arbitrary process of accreditation as
the gatekeeper to Federal student aid, including student loans,
we should judge institutions based on their track record of
student success. Schools and programs of study that
persistently fail to deliver their students into opportunities
that would make loan repayment affordable, should not be
allowed to continue their participation in these taxpayer
funded programs.
Second, we need to eliminate the patchwork of existing
student loan repayment programs, and replace it with a single,
well-functioning, income-driven repayment program that will be
easier for student borrowers to navigate, and also simpler for
the Department of Education to effectively administer.
Last, we need to stop allowing students in graduate and
professional schools from borrowing without limit. This is
problematic for three reasons. First, it enables student
borrowers to take out sums of debt that are inappropriately
large relative to their expected future income. It is
irresponsible, both to students and taxpayers, to allow
students to borrow sums of money without regard to whether it
will be affordable to repay.
Second, it makes students less sensitive to the prices they
face and thus allows institutions to raise prices more
aggressively than they would have otherwise. Last, limitless
borrowing, paired with the ability to make relatively low
monthly payments and income driven repayment program, has
increased the incidence of borrowers with high incomes having
very large debts forgiven.
Student loan relief should be reserved for lower income
borrowers who are truly struggling with repayment. At the same
time, we need to reject calls for quick fixes, like widespread
student loan cancellation, which would exacerbate current
systemic challenges, while costing taxpayers billions.
Forgiving student debt through a mass cancellation event
would send the message to future borrowers that they will not
be on the hook to repay every dollar they borrow. The
expectation of a future bailout will encourage future students
to pay more for college, and borrow more than they would have
otherwise. The resulting increased willingness to pay will
allow institutions to raise their prices further, thus
exacerbating already troubling tuition inflation.
The CRFB has estimated that even a means-tested loans
cancellation event of up to $10,000 per borrower, would cost
taxpayers 250 billion dollars. While some have argued in the
past that deficit spending is without consequence, recent
trends and inflation have proven that to be incorrect.
This spending will necessarily take resources away from
other programs that effectively target aid to more needy
Americans.
Additionally, widespread student loan cancellation is not a
program that helps the poor. Most economists agree that a one-
time event would be regressive, delivering the largest benefits
to workers with the highest income.
This is because borrowers with large balances also tend to
have very high earnings, and because the neediest workers in
our economy--those without any college education, do not carry
any student debt, and do not stand to benefit through a
cancellation event.
Thank you for the opportunity to share my testimony here
today.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Beth Akers follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you. Next, I recognize Dr. Boham
for 5 minutes for your testimony.
STATEMENT OF DR. SANDRA BOHAM, PRESIDENT, SALISH KOOTENAI
COLLEGE
Dr. Boham. [Speaking in Native language.] Thank you. Madam
Chair, distinguished members of the committee, I am Dr. Sandra
Boham. I am the current serving President of Salish Kootenai
College in Pablo, Montana, on the Flathead Indian Reservation.
I am very honored to speak with you today.
As you heard, tribal colleges are place based, mission
focused institutions, and tribal colleges serve critical roles
in preparing American Indian and Alaskan Native students for
success, as well as strengthening and sustaining our tribes,
tribal communities, lands, language and culture.
Like all colleges, Salish Kootenai College was established
to address the near complete failure of higher education for
American Indians, but also the need to perpetuate our culture,
language, lands and sovereignty.
The Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead
Indian Reservation chartered Salish Kootenai College in 1977.
It is the mission of our college to strengthen our community,
perpetuate our culture, and for us that means grounding our
programs in the values, principles, and world view at the
Salish, Ksanka, and Quiispe people.
The impact of Salish Kootenai College for the Confederated
Salish and Kootenai Tribes in the Reservation, and Indian
Country at the tribal, State, and local level is significant.
Salish Kootenai College has provided a skilled workforce that
has assisted the tribe to become a very successful self-
governance tribe.
Today the tribe operates a hydro-electric dam, a bison
range, natural resource departments, and a tribal health
system. To meet the needs of the tribe and reservation
community, Salish Kootenai College has workforce certificates,
certificates of completion, associate's degrees, bachelor's
degrees, and just began two master's degrees that are
responsive to tribal needs.
All of the programs that we offer at SKC are grounded in
our tribe's distinctive and resilient world view. Salish
Kootenai College has always aggressively worked to sustain our
tribal languages, culture and community are essential. The
COVID pandemic created an increased sense of urgency with the
loss of many of our tribal elders.
In our efforts to perpetuate our language and culture,
Salish Kootenai College developed education programs to the P-
12 system. We have teaching programs in elementary, secondary,
but what you really need to know is that we started a program
that is the Salish Language Teaching Program. It is a program
that trains people with the language, but also allows them to
have the information they need to successfully navigate the
public education system.
We have prepared nurses for the past 30 years, and our
nursing program, as all of our programs, provide culturally
competent, holistic approaches to serving the communities that
we serve. Growing our own approach has been very successful,
and many of our students--we stay in our community, or return
to the communities that they come from.
Our goal is to prepare students to choose whatever path
they choose to take. Tribal college funding is very complex,
and it makes budgeting long-term planning even more complex. At
Salish Kootenai College, as all tribal colleges, we are open
admissions. Today, Salish Kootenai College is approximately 70
percent American Indian, and 30 percent non-Indian.
The State of Montana does provide some funding for non-
Indian students, but it is very limited. We have not raised our
tuition in at least 8 years. We learned something from COVID.
We learned that adequately funded students can focus on their
education, and they are not worrying about food, they are not
worrying about their rent, they are not worrying about
childcare, and they are not worried about not having access to
mental health.
COVID provided those essential funding resources so that we
could meet those needs in our community and for our students,
and allow our students to focus on their education and graduate
successfully. Many of our students have families, and so they
also have to juggle all of those responsibilities.
In addition, our facilities will continue to need upgrading
in response to the pandemic, and I thank you all very much for
allowing me the time to testify this morning. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Sandra Boham follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you so much for your testimony,
Dr. Boham. Under Committee Rule 9(a), we will now question
witnesses under the 5-minute rule. I will be recognizing
subcommittee members in seniority order. To ensure that the
member's 5-minute rule is adhered to, staff will be keeping
track of time, and a timer will show a blinking light when the
time is expired.
Please be attentive to the time, wrap up when your time is
over and re-mute your microphone. As Chair, I recognize myself
for 5 minutes.
As I discussed in my opening statement, TCUs play an
important and unique role in higher education by pursuing the
critical mission of educating Native communities, while also
preserving the cultures and traditions of their communities.
Congress must commit to providing TCUs with the funding and
resources they need to continue educating current and future
generations of Native communities.
I think Dr. Boham just clarified that the lessons learned
from the COVID funding really did make a difference. I want to
start by asking Ms. Billy, TCUs are designed to reach students
who are historically underrepresented within higher education,
native students, students from low-income families, students of
color. These institutions also reach another unrepresented
community, rural, students who often face significant
challenges accessing and succeeding in higher education.
I am going to ask you two things Ms. Billy. Discuss what
important role TCUs play in rural communities, particularly
those with higher populations of Tribal community members, and
then also I want to ask you, you mentioned something about the
question what should it look like? What should tribal education
look like?
I am from Oregon, home of the Chemawa Indian School, the
oldest continuously operating boarding school in the United
States. This committee has been working hard to improve Native
K-12 education, and I expect that many of your students come to
you from Native schools.
Do you have suggestions on improvements that would make a
positive difference to the students who join a TCU from a BIE
school?
Ms. Billy. Thank you. Thank you for those questions. Yes,
most of the tribal colleges are located as I said on federally
recognized Indian Reservations, very rural. Very rural
institutions, and they are open door. It is important to know
they are open door institutions. They serve students whether
they are tribal members or non-tribal members.
We have a number of students, and President Boham can talk
about this, who are enrolled, particularly in nursing,
teaching, all of our programs. They are open doors, so they are
open to the entire community, so they uplift entire rural
communities. They also provide essential community services and
outreach and messaging to the communities, and community-based
programming.
Tribal colleges are 1994 land grants, so they provide
extensive land grant services, providing agricultural support
to agricultural providers, ranchers, farmers, throughout their
communities, whether they are tribal or non-tribal, in just a
wide range of ways they provide services to their entire
communities.
Also doing research, which is particularly unique to rural
areas. We are working on an initiative of trying to figure out
how to make apprenticeship work. If we could figure out how to
make apprenticeship work in tribal communities, or on tribal
lands, that will be extremely beneficial and helpful to rural
communities.
Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you, Ms. Billy. I do not want to
cut you off, but I would love to get just a brief answer
because I want to try to get a question in to Dr. Boham as
well, about the advice in terms of the K-12, particularly
residential boarding schools.
Ms. Billy. I think President Boham can answer that question
best, because one of our suggestions is for tribal colleges to
have the funding to have high school bridge programs and
academies out there, or colleges, just like Salish Kootenai
College has.
Chairwoman Bonamici. Terrific thanks. I will turn that over
to President Boham. I also wanted to mention, President Boham,
you mentioned the STEM academies that you have for students at
SKC. I have been an advocate for education that stimulates both
halves of the brain. As educators you know that the left side
of the brain is more analytical, objective, and logical, and
the right side more creative, emotional and visual, which is
why I advocate for STEAM, integration of arts and design into
STEM.
You have mentioned the STEM Academy. Do your students also
have the opportunity to integrate arts? Does the study of
Native language and the teaching of ceremoneys, songs, and
other cultural traditions help your students get the creative
and critical thinking skills that are so important for the jobs
of the future?
Dr. Boham. Thank you, Madam Chair. We created that STEM
Academy because we found a number of students articulated that
they did not believe they were capable to do the high-level
math that was needed in a STEM Program. They are highly
capable.
We reached out and got high school students to begin their
day here taking those classes. We do require Native arts in all
of our degree programs, and so they do get that other side of
the brain. Our language and culture, our culture is built
around a lot of what many people would consider to be art
forms. They are very necessary skills, and some of them have
practical life use.
They are not just artistic, although they are beautiful,
and the creation of them is artistic. In those like moccasin
making, regalia making, jewelry making, those are all very
important skills that many would consider to be art.
Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you, Dr. Boham. I am going to be
submitting because my time is expired, I am going to be
submitting the additional question for the record regarding the
transition from particularly boarding schools, or other Native
schools to TCUs. Now I am going to yield 5 minutes to the
Ranking Member, Mrs. Miller-Meeks of Iowa for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Chairwoman Bonamici, and I
want to thank all of our witnesses that are here today. The
Republicans tremendously value the role of all minority serving
institutions, including tribal colleges and universities.
However, we have had three hearings on minority serving
institutions, and zero hearings on dedicated to the need to
reform student loan programs.
Dr. Akers, I think it is important that in this
subcommittee we review the data behind the Federal student loan
portfolio and identify who in fact holds loan debt. As we have
heard already this morning, students enrolled at TCUs often
face socioeconomic, and other challenges when they decide they
want to pursue a quality, postsecondary education.
According to Federal data, roughly half of TCU students in
a given year receive a Pell Grant, but it is my understanding
that very few TCU students borrow for their education. Is that
correct Dr. Akers?
Dr. Akers. That is correct.
Mrs. Miller-Meeks. How does this compare to students
attending say State, public college, or a private non-profit?
Dr. Akers. Much greater share of those students will be
borrowing to pay for their education.
Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Given that information, would mass
student loan forgiveness help the vast majority of TCU
students, and please explain why?
Dr. Akers. No. Not at all. TCU students who largely do not
carry any student debt would not stand to benefit from the type
of one-time cancellation event that is rumored to be coming
shortly from the White House.
Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Despite their, you know, often
challenging socioeconomic issues, it would not benefit to a
significant degree by student loan debt forgiveness?
Dr. Akers. That is right. That is correct. Generally, the
people who will benefit from student loan cancellation tend to
be of higher income. We know that 60 percent of outstanding
student loan debt is held by borrowers in the top 40 percent of
the income distribution. This group also makes three-quarters
of loan payments, so this would be a benefit disproportionate
to those people.
Mrs. Miller-Meeks. I was going to ask you that. I would
like to talk about the role of student choice in deciding what
is done for higher education, and what an individual student
does. I myself, I am a physician, but I actually started at 16
when I left home, went to community college, as well as worked.
I worked my way through. I chose to get a degree in nursing so
I could work at night. I later got a master's in education, and
then I went to medical school.
With every decision I made to advance my education, I made
another calculated decision knowing that I would be responsible
for financing my education. I was the fourth of eight kids, and
there was not a family that was going to support that
education.
According to Federal Reserve data, nearly 60 percent of
outstanding student loan debt is held by borrowers with
graduate degrees. During the Department's most recent
negotiated rulemaking sessions, Department staff repeatedly
noted the--expand the limited scope and not charge benefits to
low-income borrowers.
What potential consequences and costs, if the Department
changes course, and includes graduate borrowers who hold the
majority of loan debt, and yet another income-driven repayment
plan that is expected to be far more generous than those
already on the books.
Dr. Akers. My concern with the existing programs, as well
as the introduction of another, is the complexity of those
programs. We know that students are having a challenging time
navigating what benefits are available to them. The Department
of Education is having a difficult time effectively
administering those programs. The other concern is what happens
to prices as especially graduate students are able to borrow
without limit, anticipating that the marginal dollars that they
borrow will necessarily be forgiven.
This takes pressure off institutions to keep prices in line
with value. In my view, it will likely exacerbate the
exorbitant tuition inflation that we are already facing.
Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Dr. Akers, since March 2020, Federal
student loan borrowers have not paid a single penny on their
loans costing taxpayers 4.3 billion each month the pause has
continued. This is despite the disproportionately low
unemployment rate of college graduates who are largely spared
from the economic consequences of COVID-19.
While these individuals got to work from home, blue collar
workers got laid off at rates unseen since the Great
Depression. While most of these hardworking taxpayers have
returned to work, they are still being forced to pay for
affluent college graduate's now 2-year vacation from their
student loans that have provided them their education in the
first place.
Dr. Akers, is there any justification for the repayment
pause to be extended beyond August, yes or no?
Dr. Akers. Absolutely not.
Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much. I yield back my
time.
Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you. Next, I recognize
Representative Leger Fernandez from New Mexico for 5 minutes
for your questions.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you so much, Chair Bonamici, for
holding this hearing today. Last month in the Subcommittee on
Indigenous Peoples, we held a hearing on Representative David's
Truth and Reconciliation Boarding School Bill. It seared in
every committee member's memory the torture and harm we as a
nation inflicted on students torn from their parents.
The TCUs represent the complete opposite of the failed
boarding school program, and I think we need to hear about
them. We need to focus on them, and we need to honor them. That
is why before I ask my questions I want to remind the minority
that this is a hearing about the great work of tribal colleges
and universities, and what they need to serve this important
role.
Especially, because they are reliant on us, on Congress for
their funding. There are multiple TCUs throughout the Midwest,
including institutions in Minnesota, North and South Dakota,
and Nebraska. TCUs also likely serve students from Iowa.
Instead of honoring the work of these TCUs, recognizing the
needs of the tribal students as tending them, the minority has
decided to hijack this hearing to score political points about
student's loans, which we heard earlier today are not that
applicable to TCUs in general.
I am disappointed at my colleagues' behavior, and I
apologize to our witnesses and their students, for the failure
of both sides at this hearing to recognize the importance of
these institutions. In New Mexico we have four TCUs, Dine
College, Navajo Technical University, and the Institute of
American Indian Arts.
While TCUs represent the promise of fulfilling our trust
responsibility, we also heard today how we are underfunding
that promise. TCUs, we heard, only receive $8,676 per student.
Compare this to the $28,601 that the average public colleges
and universities spend per student.
This I wanted to ask Dr. Boham. Thank you for pointing out
the importance that the American Rescue Plan and COVID funding
helped to meet the needs. You said it was quite distinct. What
level of funding do you believe you actually need on an ongoing
basis?
Dr. Boham. What we need on an ongoing basis is funding to
adequately address the mental health needs of our students, to
adequately fund them, at least doubling the Pell Grant, so that
they will have adequate resources for the tuition and books.
One of the areas that we do not talk about is the
incredible inflation that has happened, and it has happened in
rural communities. Even though people make more money than you
would think, like our faculty, they are just as heavily
impacted by sometimes doubling and tripling rents that are
happening in our very rural communities, due to COVID.
We found, and I have the dollar figures, but we spent over
$100,000 in mental health services, and normalized that
conversation. We supported food sovereignty by providing food
boxes every Friday with fresh produce and milk. We have a
campus facility for healthcare that sees all students, tribal
and nontribal. We upgraded the access to technology, both in
fiber and internet connectivity, as well as by providing laptop
checkouts and hot spots.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, Dr. Boham. I wanted to be
able to ask Ms. Billy a question, but this points out that we
need to look at all of the different needs, and it should not
take a pandemic to provide the adequate funding. Ms. Billy, I
truly appreciated your testimony about the role that the TCUs
play in nation building.
What are some of the unique lessons that TCUs learn--that
students learn at a TCU that might not exist in the separate
community college or university, that does not have that focus
on nation building, and on training the next leaders of our
indigenous nations and tribes? You are on mute.
Ms. Billy. One of the things that tribal college students
learn that they do not get at other institutions--most other
institutions, is a focus on their identity, their self. They
take Native language courses. They have cultural activities on
the campus that are integrated with the community, so they
learn who they are as a Dine person, as a Salish person, and
that sense of community is very strong at tribal colleges that
does not exist anywhere else.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you very much, Ms. Billy. I
think that sense of who you are and cultural competency in
yourself is so essential to be able to accommodate others in
your viewpoint as well. Madam Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you. I now recognize
Representative Grothman from Wisconsin for 5 minutes for your
questions.
Mr. Grothman. Thanks. Dr. Akers, I will ask you the first
question. Student loan debt is something that really somewhat
obsesses me because I really feel our secondary education
system has let down a lot of people, and they have kind of
delays their start in life as they try to pay these things off.
I introduced a bill called the Responsible Borrowing Act,
which will allow colleges to limit the amount of debt that is
taken out by individual students. I heard it from some people
back home, administrators back home who felt that under the
current system people were taking out loans higher than they
have to be, maybe to support a life style, what have you.
Do you think it would be a good idea, and do you think it
would benefit the tribal colleges if they could restrict the
amount of loans that are given out?
Dr. Akers. I do. I think that would benefit all colleges.
Right now they can either offer loans or not, but do not have
the capacity to constrain borrowing. I have heard that time and
again from administrators, that this is a real challenge.
Mr. Grothman. Yes. I should ask one of the other of you,
would you like that opportunity? One of the other witnesses?
Ms. Billy. This is Carrie Billy with AIHEC. Only one of our
tribal colleges participates in the Federal loan program. It is
difficult for us to answer that in a very comprehensive way.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. I will go on to the next question then.
Dr. Akers, one of the things that concerns me in some of the
things we learned today. I currently believe too many people
are going to college. Some of these tribal colleges, I guess
collectively, have an average graduation rate of 19 percent,
and I guess I would say almost by definition if you have
decided to go to college and you do not graduate in 6 years,
that was a mistake.
Do you feel--and given that the expected income is only
$25,000 after 10 years, do you think it is in general good to
encourage people to go to a tribal college, or should a lot of
these people be encouraged to go somewhere else?
Dr. Akers. The vast majority of people report they go to
college for the purpose of getting an economic return. For
those people--in going to a college like a TCU with a low
graduation rate would not be a wise decision.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. I wonder, are you familiar with the
type of degrees that the average student is getting? When I run
into a young person, I always say make sure you have a plan.
Make sure your degree is going to lead to a job--computers,
cybersecurity, engineering, accounting, nursing, something--do
you know what percentage of graduates of these tribal colleges
wind up with a degree in that sort of thing?
Not that we can get rid of other degrees all together,
other degrees are important as well, but I think
proportionately we have too many people getting degrees that
are not leading to jobs. Could you comment on your experience
with tribal colleges?
Dr. Akers. I am not familiar with the distribution of
majors and specialty programs at TCUs.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. Could you comment in general on the
income level that people are getting when they get a 4-year
degree from a tribal college?
Dr. Akers. The biggest impediment to getting an economic
return from a college degree is not graduating. The fact that
we know that approximately 20 percent of students at these
institutions are going out to--only 20 percent are going on to
graduate means that it is unlikely that people are getting an
earnings level that is in excess of the typical high school
graduate in those communities.
Mr. Grothman. What happens to the 81 percent who went to
one of these colleges and do not get a degree in 6 years? By
the way, I know a lot of people getting 4-year college degrees
who wind up going back to tech school or trade school. I assume
some of that 19 percent who actually get a degree perhaps
regret it, but could you comment on what becomes of the
students who the 81 percent of the students who do not get a
degree?
Dr. Akers. Sure. It would be nice if half of a college
degree would get you half of the earnings boost that comes from
having a full college degree, but unfortunately that is not the
case. Generally, we find that somebody who has just a few
credits here and there toward a degree, does not get any sort
of earnings bump, but still is on the hook for the financial
burden of paying for their degree.
In that sense we sometimes say that these individuals are
worse off than had they not gone to college in the first place.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. I am a little concerned with some of
the comments that we have heard as far as the benefits of going
to a tribal college, are not those benefits that I think other
colleges give, of a more useful degree. Could you comment on
that a little?
Dr. Akers. No. As I said, I am not familiar with the
distribution of majors and programs that are offered at these
institutions.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. Thank you.
Chairwoman Bonamici. I now recognize Mr. Bowman from New
York for 5 minutes for your questions.
Mr. Bowman. Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is for
President Boham. Thank you so much for joining us today. It is
clear that the pandemic has impacted the mental health of young
people in this country, from infants and children in early care
and education, through our students in higher education and
entering the workforce.
We know that the pandemic has disproportionately affected
Native communities, and so ensuring that your students have
access to high-quality, culturally responsive mental healthcare
is particularly important. In your testimony, you spoke about
how your institution was able to normalize discussions around
mental health, and asking for help during the pandemic.
Could you share with us how Federal COVID relief funding
has helped you support student mental health on campus? Are
there specific mental health programs or services that have
been successful for your students, and what, if any additional
support do you need moving forward to continue to address
mental health challenges?
Dr. Boham. Thank you, Representative Bowman, Madam Chair.
Salish Kootenai College, like many Indian Reservations has
underlying mental health issues, and we had them before the
pandemic, but we did not have the resources to address them to
the level we needed to. That resulted in a lot of suicide
ideation, suicide attempts, suicide completions within our
reservation community.
In addition to students leaving school due to mental health
issues. With the COVID funding we were able to increase face to
face contracting for mental health services, but we also added
tele-mental health, and that was probably one of the most
significant things that we did.
We did not know whether it was going to be widely received
in our community, but it was. What we did was not only did we
have the adequate access for those services for our students
and their families, but also for our employees. We normalized
the conversation, employees talked with students about yes, you
know, why do you not call this number to talk about that. I
called them last week.
Those kinds of conversations, so that it did not make
asking for help a stigma. Many times people want to not--they
think they are the only one. I mean they know they are not the
only one, but they do not want to be identified as the only
one. As these conversations around support for mental health
happened, we also saw requests for support in other ways as
well.
That approach to community support, community wellness,
community mental health, cannot be underestimated in how it
impacted our students.
Mr. Bowman. Thank you for that. We have also heard a lot
today about how TCUs were created for the purpose of preserving
Native culture, language and traditions. As a former educator,
I know how important it is to provide culturally responsive
education that reflects values and protects the lived
experiences and shared cultural heritages of all of our
students, especially in the context of the U.S. government's
history of systemic oppression, and forced assimilation of
Native Americans through education systems.
It is vital that institutions like yours are able to center
tribal identity, history and culture in your work. President
Boham, how does your institution's unique cultural heritage
impact the way your institution operates? What effect does this
have on curriculum design, student support, and family and
community engagement overall?
Dr. Boham. Thank you, Representative Bowman and Madam
Chair. All of our courses integrate that cultural perspective,
so I will give you a concrete example. In our tribal forestry
and our natural resources programs, we teach forest management
and natural resource management similarly to what you would get
at any school for the nuts and bolts of the science.
However, we also talk about the cultural significance of
those natural resources. Sometimes we will forego the economic
return on a stand of trees because they serve a larger cultural
purpose. When we are learning everything here, it is always
with that lens of how that fits into our cultural world view.
What we know is that students who have a strong sense of
their own identity, who feel connected to who they are and
where they are from, they have much better persistence and
completion rates than students who do not.
Chairwoman Bonamici. Dr. Boham, I am sorry to cut you off,
but they have called votes, so we are going to try to get
through a few more rounds of questions before we have to leave
to go to the floor. Next, I recognize Mr. Comer from Kentucky
for 5 minutes for your questions.
Mr. Comer. Thank you, Madam Chair. Dr. Akers, when looking
at the faulty budgeting from the Department of Education and
the Congressional Budget Office, it is clear that the integrity
of the Federal student loan portfolio is deteriorating rapidly.
The President knows his radical policies could not pass through
this Congress, so he is providing de facto free college through
the student loan program.
Dr. Akers, can you describe the harm of this
administration's student loan policies that are being
characterized as ``fixing a broken system,'' and the effect
this could have on fueling further inflation?
Dr. Akers. I have serious concerns about the act of a one-
time cancellation event of the type that has been hinted about
coming from the White House soon. I am especially concerned
about the incentives that it creates for future borrowers. If
students are to believe that they do not have to repay the
loans they take on today, it is very likely that they will be
willing to pay more for college, borrow more for college.
That reduces pressure on institutions to keep prices in
line with value and allows for a continuance of the tuition
inflation that we have seen over the past decades. The second
concern I have about it is of course, the distribution of
benefits. Generally, when we craft bail-out programs, we think
of resources going to the people who need them the most.
We know that the disproportionate amount of student debt is
held by people in the top end of the income distribution. It is
not a program that benefits the poor. I am deeply concerned
about both the distribution of benefits of this sort of act,
but also the changes and incentives that it creates for the
future of the program, and what that does for the
sustainability of our program.
Mr. Comer. Well as Ranking Member of the House Oversight
Committee, I have also been working to determine the extent to
which this forgiveness proposal will benefit the very staffers
President Biden has tasked with developing this radical policy.
Dr. Akers, as a matter of sound governmental ethics, do you
believe those staffers should be excluded from any student loan
forgiveness proposals that they drafted?
Dr. Akers. I think the legality of that sort of proposal is
outside of the scope of my expertise, but I appreciate the
concern about the potential conflict of interest.
Mr. Comer. Right. In 2016, Buzz Feed News reported that
just three out of 32 tribal colleges allowed their students to
receive Federal loans. Today the most recent data from the
Department of Education shows that only two tribal colleges
allow their students to take out Federal student loans. In this
article they assert TCUs fear students defaulting on their
loans, while TCUs claim they recognize there are issues with
Federal student loan programs, and want their students to find
educational assistance elsewhere.
Either way it seems TCUs recognize the ongoing failure of
our Federal student loan program. Dr. Akers, knowing this,
would students attending tribal colleges benefit from President
Biden's rumored plan to cancel $10,000.00 in student loan debt?
Dr. Akers. No, they would not, and potentially they would
face higher prices at other institutions if they chose to
attend those as a result of that sort of intervention.
Mr. Comer. Dr. Akers, approximately how much debt do
students from Ivy League schools, or other elite educational
institutions hold?
Dr. Akers. Ivy League students represent about 4 percent of
borrowers, yet they hold 14 percent of the outstanding student
loan volume, so they are disproportionately large participants
in the Federal student loan program.
Mr. Comer. Here we have a scenario where Ivy League
graduates stand to win a windfall from all of Biden's student
loan cancellations, while students at tribal colleges will get
essentially nothing. Is that correct?
Dr. Akers. That is correct.
Mr. Comer. Wow. Madam Chair, that concludes my questions,
but I would like to yield the balance of my time to Dr. Foxx.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Comer. Dr. Akers, I
cannot overState how deeply concerned I am with the many
reckless decisions the Biden administration is currently taking
to bend the rules for loan and repayment programs. These
actions are not getting the headline attention they deserve,
and I am afraid there is little scrutiny on these misguided
actions. I would like to run through a few of these with you,
and get your expert opinion on their impact.
Back in April the Department snuck in a vague announcement
to provide borrowers what they call Operation Fresh Start. The
only details they have provided is that they will eliminate the
impact of delinquency and default, and allow borrowers to re-
enter repayment in good standing. Do you think it is wise for
the Federal Government to essentially require the private
sector to delete predictive information, such as credit history
of borrowers, and what could be the negative effects of
suppressing an individual borrower's credit history from other
lenders, let us say when the borrowers want to buy a home, or
the future?
Dr. Akers. I think that would be very unwise. My concern
would be for the student borrowers who have been successful in
repaying their loans, who do not otherwise have a family
history of credit. They have been building their credit score
for the purpose of potentially buying a home, or even buying a
car, or renting an apartment in some cases.
Chairwoman Bonamici. I am sorry, the time has expired. Mr.
Comer's time has expired. I now recognize Congressman Espaillat
from New York for 5 minutes for your questions.
Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is the
following, and it is to Ms. Presidents Lindquist, Carry Billy
or Sandra Boham. Through the COVID-19 relief bill Congress has
awarded TCUs more than $367 million in aid. What are some of
the ways that TCUs have successfully implemented the relief
funds? What would long-term investment mean for the students at
TCUs? That is the first question.
Ms. Lindquist.
Ms. Billy. President Lindquist is not here today.
Mr. Espaillat. Okay. If you could respond for her, please.
Ms. Billy. Yes, this is Carrie Billy with AIHEC. I will
quickly respond. One of the biggest things tribal colleges have
done is provide the money in direct student aid--aid to the
students, lowering tuition. Some are providing free tuition, or
discounted tuition for students to help them and providing
emergency aid across the board, but also addressing critical
infrastructure needs that they have, HVAC systems.
Tribal colleges have very old facilities, so trying as best
as they can to upgrade them, so students feel safe in their
environment.
Mr. Espaillat. Thank you. Anybody else would like to weigh
in as well?
Dr. Boham. Representative Espaillat, what Salish Kootenai
College has done is we have provided assistance to students.
That is where a lot of our resources went. We also provided
safety issues. We discovered we had no way to notify the public
of the pandemic, or any safety measures, so we implemented a
sign on our campus, so that we cannotify the community.
Again, a lot of the supports around mental health and
addressing mental health, food insecurity, housing insecurity,
support for parents with children in supporting their children
to go to childcare systems, and also reducing tuition, and so
we did a 50 percent tuition reduction.
We have very low tuition to begin with, but that little
additional resource back to the students has helped them to
again, address just their basic needs. The students are not
looking to live very you know well here, but they need to have
basic needs covered if they are going to focus on completing
their degrees and plans of study.
Mr. Espaillat. Thank you. Thank you. Like other students
across the Nation, and many of TCU students had to suddenly
transfer to online learning, which left many without access to
resources like reliable internet and community support. How has
the administration assisted the students with this transition,
and how are you dealing with learning loss of some of the
students throughout the pandemic, and beyond this?
Ms. Billy. This is Carrie with AIHEC. I will answer the
first part, and perhaps President Boham can answer the second.
What tribal colleges did with a lot of their COVID relief
funding, and working with their tribes, was try to build out
the IT infrastructure that did not even exist. On most Indian
Reservations, if you look at a Verizon or AT&T map, the empty
spots on those maps are where Indian country is, what is left
of Indian country.
They tried to build them out. One perfect example is
Nebraska Indian Community College partnering with their K-12
schools to use a Spectrum license to provide free wireless
internet access to the K-12 schools, their families, and the
tribal colleges.
Mr. Espaillat. Thank you. Ms. Boham, do you have any
further input?
Dr. Boham. Yes. We also used some of our COVID relief money
to provide additional classroom support and tutorial support.
We went from no online to completely online when the pandemic
first hit. We have now transitioned back most fac-to-face, but
we also have kept our hybrid, which is sort of a classroom like
this.
We still do not have a lot of asynchronous online courses
because our students have indicated that's not their favorite,
but we do have some. What we have done is what we always do,
which is to try to meet the needs of our students as they are
telling us what is the best way to serve them.
Mr. Espaillat. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you. I now recognize Dr. Foxx,
the ranking member of the full committee for 5 minutes for your
questions.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Madam Chair. Dr. Akers, you were
cutoff in answering the other question that I asked you. I have
a followup about that issue that I think will get you back into
it. As an economist, what could be the larger implications to
the credit market and our economy if credit bureaus are forced
to report factually incorrect information?
Dr. Akers. Yes. If credit rating agencies were required to
not use accurate information on loan repayment it would
basically make loan repayment information no longer relevant to
credit scores. People who have succeeded in making repayment
would lose credit score that they have earned because of
repayment. Essentially, it is a reduction in liquidity. It
would be the overall result of this introduction or constraint
on information into the credit rating system.
Ms. Foxx. It appears to me that the Biden administration is
missing no place at all to undermine our economy. My friends
across the aisle continue to forget the important, historical
context surrounding when public service loan forgiveness, or
PSLF was first enacted in 2007. As you know, Dr. Akers, PSLF
was written by Congress to be a narrowly targeted program
before the full pivot to direct loans. When most borrowers had
FELL loans, and when there were not as many income driven
repayment plans. However, with the stroke of a pen the Biden
administration has created a PSLF waiver, changing the
requirements, and opening the flood gates of a program that has
historically provided approximately $100,000 in debt
forgiveness per borrower.
Dr. Akers, if a borrower is receiving $100,000 in debt
forgiveness, what type of borrowers is this most likely--you
have alluded to it before, and is this type of borrower
reflective of the average student loan borrower?
Dr. Akers. It is very likely that a borrower with
$100,000.00 in debt is someone with a graduate or professional
degree. We know that the typical recipient of a bachelor's
degree has only about $30,000 in debt. That is because that is
the Federal limit on what they can borrow through the Federal
loan program.
Someone with $100,000 in debt is a very special borrower,
very likely at the high end of the income distribution.
Ms. Foxx. Right. What would make sense given that over a
third of borrowers who had their loans canceled under PSLF are
making over six figure salaries? Dr. Akers, a recent study
published by the National Bureau of Economic Research found
that the PSLF waiver allows for as many as 3.5 million
borrowers holding as much as 145 billion eligible for immediate
forgiveness.
We now know that separately grad plus loan borrowing is
leaving taxpayers on the hook for at least 6.4 billion in
losses over the next decade. Given that 87 percent of PSLF
borrowers hold graduate student debt, it appears that this
program, and the issues with grad plus, are related.
How is the lack of borrowing caps for graduate students in
the large amounts of forgiveness provided by the Federal
Government contributing to how institutions consider setting
their prices? Especially as it pertains to borrowers in
``public service programs or graduate borrowers?''
Dr. Akers. There are many instances in which an individual
student might anticipate that they will be going into public
service after graduation from a graduate or professional
degree. Since they are able to borrow without limit, they can
borrow huge sums.
If they understand the way that this program works, they
could anticipate that they may not have to borrow--or repay
many of the dollars that they are borrowing. This essentially
allows people to borrow without consequence, which translates
to a reduction in pressure on institutions to keep the price
that they charge students in line with value because in
essence, the students do not care what they are paying because
they likely will not have to pay it back in the future.
This is really stemming from both the generosity of the
existing loan forgiveness programs, but also the fact that
these graduate students are able to borrow essentially without
limit.
Ms. Foxx. We have no skin in the game for anyone except the
taxpayers. The taxpayers are on the hook for paying off all
these debts. The institution has no skin in the game. The
student has no skin in the game, and what we wind up happening
as someone said earlier I think, a back door way of providing
free college. It is just what the Democrats want. Thank you,
Madam Chair. I yield back.
Chairwoman Bonamici. I now recognize the chairman of the
full committee, Mr. Scott from Virginia for 5 minutes for your
questions.
Mr. Scott. Thank you, Madam Chair. Comments have been made
about transfers of wealth. I would note that two decades ago
states were paying about two-thirds of the cost of college.
Students had to pay one-third. That has eroded down to the
states paying about one-third now, and two-thirds of the burden
is on the student.
Pell Grants for low-income students covered about 75,
almost 80 percent, the cost of going to college. Now it is
under 30 percent, and that has resulted in ballooning student
loans to a point where 5 years ago it was about 1.5 trillion
dollars. At that point the Republican planned for 1.5 trillion-
dollar tax cut, resulted in a tax cut where 80 percent of the
benefits were scheduled to go to the top 1 percent in
corporations.
That is a transfer of wealth. Ms. Billy, did you mention a
treaty obligation? Can you flesh that out a little bit? What
are the treaty obligations?
Ms. Billy. The treaty obligations between American Indian
tribes and the Federal Government are just like the treaty
obligations between the Federal Government and any other
nation, because tribal nations are sovereign nations. They are
treaty obligations. The treaties were signed in exchange for
land. Over a billion acres of land was given to the Federal
Government. A lot of that was given back to states as part of
the land grant system.
I mean that is where the treaty obligation comes from, to
provide services to American Indian--federally recognized
American Indian tribes.
Mr. Scott. Thank you. You mentioned a benefit to the local
areas in terms of economic development. Some colleges just
generally, are the economic engine in those areas. If the TCUs
are in rural areas, I would imagine that they would be a major
economic force in those areas. Is that not true?
Ms. Billy. Yes. They are a significant economic force in
their communities generating billions of dollars every year,
and in terms of students who graduated and go to work in rural
communities, and in their regions, and also providing research
and other economic development, and also focusing on job
creation, which is really the way to address generational
unemployment to create new jobs, and that's what tribal
colleges are focused on doing.
Mr. Scott. Thank you. Dr. Boham, how would tribal colleges
and universities benefit from teacher preparation programs such
as the ones proposed in Augustus F. Hawkins Centers for
Excellence?
Dr. Boham. I am not sure that I know what the proposed
education programs are.
Mr. Scott. Would the teacher preparation programs--well let
me just skip that.
Dr. Boham. I can tell you though that our teachers that we
are training stay in our communities and work with our
students. They understand our students, and they are able to
address the whole child. Not only their academics, but their
social and emotional, and their identity and culture.
As we create these teachers, and they go into our
communities, we hope to continue to see the benefits of high
school completion from our students, and then for them to also
consider what their future will be.
Mr. Scott. Thank you. Ms. Billy you indicated that there is
a per student based on enrollment in a tribe, and that non-
enrolled students do not get that payment. Do the non-enrolled
students pay a higher tuition at the tribal colleges?
Ms. Billy. No. The tuition is the same at tribal colleges,
whether you are an enrolled member in that tribe, or you are
just a regular community member, the tuition is the same.
Mr. Scott. Thank you. Madam Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you. I now recognize
Representative Good from Virginia for 5 minutes for your
questions.
Mr. Good. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Dr. Akers, the
President is misusing his emergency powers to defer, or even
transfer student loan debt and burden generations of Americans
with higher taxes for years to come. As you know, according to
the Federal Reserve, some 40 percent of the highest income
households in the U.S., are the ones who hold nearly 60 percent
of the outstanding student loan debt.
The moratorium on student loan payments has already cost
American taxpayers about 150 billion dollars, or the tune of 4
billion dollars per month. My bill, the Federal Student Loan
Integrity Act, which I led with my colleague on this committee,
Jim Banks, would curb the authority of the Biden
administration, to continue the student loan payment deferment.
I hope next year, and I expect that next year we will have
a Republican majority which will allow my bill to have a vote
on the House floor to return some sanity to the situation. The
Biden student loan scam is driving up the cost of education for
America's lowest income earners, and tricking students into
taking on more debt with the false impression--I hope it is the
false impression, that they will never have to pay it back.
Dr. Akers, who do you think should be required to pay a
student's loans?
Dr. Akers. I believe that students generally themselves
should have to pay back the dollars that they borrow. I think
there is a role for a safety net in our Federal loan system,
but I think that the benefits, the relief, the bailouts, should
be reserved for people who are the lowest income, and face, the
actually a big struggle in having to pay back those loans.
Mr. Good. Yes. I think it should indeed be the students.
Who do you think it would be right to transfer that debt to? We
hear this term forgiveness. Of course it would not be
forgiveness, it would just be transferred. If a student can, or
does not want to pay their debt back, who do you think that
should be right for it to be transferred to?
Dr. Akers. I do not think it should be transferred to
anyone.
Mr. Good. Yes. I continue to have to educate my colleagues
on the other side of the aisle on basic economics. It cannot be
forgiven it has to be transferred to someone if it is not paid
for by the person who borrowed it. Do you think that someone
that never went to college should be forced to pay someone
else's student loan?
Dr. Akers. No. I do not.
Mr. Good. Yes, I agree with you. Do you think that someone
who worked their way through school, so they did not have to
incur student loans. They worked a couple of jobs, they worked
summers, they worked during the school year so they could avoid
student loan debt. Do you think they should be forced to pay
with their tax dollars someone else's student loans?
Dr. Akers. No. I do not.
Mr. Good. Yes, I do not as well. Do you think someone who
paid off their student loans after college, you know, they
actually made their payments, and they paid off that student
loan. Do you think they should be forced to pay someone else's
student loans?
Dr. Akers. No, I do not.
Mr. Good. Well, I appreciate that. What do you believe
would be the impact of transferring what is estimated 1.6
trillion. 1.6 trillion outstanding debt estimated to be about
$5,000 per American, with 300 million Americans, or some
$15,000 per taxpaying household.
What do you think the impact would be to transfer to
taxpayers 1.6 trillion dollars' worth of student loan debt,
which I doubt would poll very high. Say hey, do you want to pay
$5,000 to pay off everybody's student loan debt per American?
Or $15,000 for tax paying households?
What do you think would be the economic impact? Also, what
do you think it would do to college costs if we were to
transfer all that debt to the taxpayers?
Dr. Akers. Well, this is necessarily going to take
resources away from Americans through other programs or
ultimately drive a need for a tax increase to pay off any
expense of this cancellation. My concern with how it affects
higher education more narrowly, is of course that it allows
students to be less sensitive to the prices they are paying
because they do not expect that they will actually have to pay
back any dollars that they borrow, and institutions will raise
prices as a result.
Mr. Good. I think you are exactly right. I have had young
people ask me who have student loan debt, like I did when I was
in my early 20's, and they say hey, should I make my payments?
Am I being a chump if I make my payments? Are they going to
turn around and forgive it? Am I foolish if I were to actually
pay the student loans that I borrowed, that I chose so that I
could go to college, so that I could have an opportunity to
earn a higher income?
Setting aside the moral question of you know transferring
student loan debt to non-borrowing taxpayers, does it make
practical or good financial sense to transfer this debt from
those who owe it while we're continuing to make student loans?
Dr. Akers. No. Absolutely not. Without deeper systemic
reform to stop unaffordable loans from being made, we will
continue to have pressure to have nonsensical interventions
like widespread loan cancellation.
Mr. Good. Well, thank you very much for answering my
questions succinctly, and Mr. Chairman, I yield back my last 15
seconds.
Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you, Representative. Because of
the pending vote on the House floor, this committee is going to
stand in recess, and reconvene about 5 minutes after the second
vote is called. The committee currently stands in recess.
[Recess.]
Mr. Scott. The committee will come to order. We will now
resume questioning with the gentlelady from Tennessee, Mrs.
Harshbarger.
Mrs. Harshbarger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Scott. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Harshbarger. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman,
and Ranking Member, and thank you to the witnesses here today.
I would like to start with Dr. Akers. Doctor, in your testimony
you noted that the financial risk associated with college is
the single greatest impediment to our system of higher
education.
I agree, absolutely. Students have been told for far too
long they need to take on thousands of dollars in debt to
pursue a post-secondary credential, yet there is no guarantee
that it will even pay off. Moreover, the financial risk lies
solely on taxpayers and students because institutions with
access to billions of Federal funds have no skin in the game
when it comes to return on the education that they're
responsible for providing.
Do you believe that the lack of shared risk by colleges and
universities results in misalignments between students and
taxpayers and institutions? The second part of that question is
what are the consequences of these misalignment incentives?
Dr. Akers. I do believe that is a problem, and I am
concerned about the lack of accountability for institutions to
produce outcomes that students and taxpayers are actually
looking for. Surveys indicate that over 90 percent of students
go to college for the purpose of their economic advancement, to
make more money to advance in their career.
To the extent that institutions are not on the hook to
provide that, they are letting down both students and
taxpayers.
Mrs. Harshbarger. Absolutely. I will look at the graduation
rates at 19 percent, and I looked at the total number of
students that these tribal colleges you know have a cumulative,
which is around 22,000 students. That brings me to another
question Dr. Akers, you also mentioned that institutions that
persistently failed to match the price they charge with
potential earnings of their students, should not be allowed to
continue their participation in Federal student loans, and that
is--I 100 percent agree.
Recently students have shown, and I think you may have said
60 percent of master's programs failed to deliver a positive
return on investment for their students, yet we have seen
unfettered access to grad plus loans, which are now expected to
cost taxpayers at least 6 billion dollars for new loans made
over the next decade.
What my question would be to you is what do you recommend
Congress do in considering when it comes to reforming that grad
plus or Stafford loan program for graduate students?
Dr. Akers. I question whether there is really a need for
Federal intervention in graduate student borrowing. At the
onset of the student loan program, we were correcting for an
absence of private sector capital being available for students.
My belief is that if the Federal Government were to stop making
graduate plus loans at the low interest rates that are
available today, that the private sector would step in.
Unlike the Federal Government, the private sector would
underwrite these loans, meaning they would look at a student
and assess what would be affordable for them to be able to
repay, and would only lend that amount, which I think adds a
layer of consumer protection for students that does not exist
in the current system.
Mrs. Harshbarger. Absolutely. You know basic--depending
upon what degree, and what the potential earnings are for that
degree. I know that when I borrowed, and you know, you get a
Pell Grant initially, but anything I borrowed I had to pay
back, and based on the earnings of a pharmacist, I paid those
loans back, every penny of them.
The next question would be many higher education experts
have suggested that the Federal incentives schools should be
required to pay a fee equivalent to some share of the losses
taxpayers pay based on the underperforming student loans. It is
a good first step. What are your thoughts on such insurance
proposals, and what are the benefits to students, institutions
and taxpayers on the market based risk sharing approach like
the insurance requirement?
Dr. Akers. Sure. I think it is important that we get
institutions to have skin in the game.
Mrs. Harshbarger. Yes.
Dr. Akers. What matters is not how much the loans get
repaid necessarily, but rather the total economic return that
an institution is providing that is comparing the costs that
students and taxpayers are paying to the return that comes in
the form of heightened future wages, they increase contribution
to taxes, things like that.
I think moving in that direction would be a step in the
right direction, both for individual students, and for
taxpayers.
Mrs. Harshbarger. Yes. I totally agree, and I appreciate
you taking the time to answer those questions, and we will
followup with you on a couple other suggestions that you may
have for us, you know, the education committee to go forward
with this. I appreciate that, and thank you Mr. Chairman, and I
yield back.
Mr. Scott. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has expired.
The gentleman from New York, Mr. Jacobs, you are recognized for
5 minutes.
Mr. Jacobs. Thank you very much. Ms. Akers, I have a couple
questions I would like to ask you. Again, thank you all for
being here. Just a little followup on Congresswoman
Harshbarger's question on degree insurance. We recently, the
Republicans on this committee held a roundtable discussing the
idea of degree insurance, a concept in which institutions take
out insurance in the event that their graduates face lower than
expected earnings, or are unable to pay back their loans.
Basically, if the insurance would cover the difference
between what they are making after they graduate, and what the
average would be for that profession, that degree that they
pursued for a 5-year period, and it was an interesting concept.
I do not know if you looked into this. I know it is pretty
recent as far as an industry, but if you want to elaborate a
little more on what your thoughts are. I thought it was
interesting, and one thing that it may incentivize a student,
and we talked about this, that may be struggling in the second
year and decides to drop out. Whether this may incentivize them
to stay through and finish, because this at the end is 5-year
guarantee that they would be able to have sustainable income.
We know that most student loan problems arise when there is
not a graduation at the end.
Dr. Akers. Yes. Great question. I have followed this issue,
and I am a big fan of the model of bringing private sector into
higher education to provide some risk mitigation for students.
When we think of education as an investment, the only challenge
is that it is not a diversified investment.
It would be like putting all of your money for your savings
for retirement into a single stock. We do not really recommend
that, yet we do so with education, and we do not offer any
insurance to ensure that if it does not work out, that you are
protected in some way.
Degree insurance offers the same protection, something like
an income share agreement would do as well. Basically, tying
the amount that is obligated to pay on the back end to the
amount that their education is actually worth, or in another
way, maintaining that they will have a minimum level of income
after they graduate, so basically taking out the bottom side
risk of that investment.
I think this is good for students. It protects them from
that potential downside risk, makes the more low-income
students, especially willing and able to invest in degrees that
they otherwise would not be able to afford because of that
downside risk. Potentially puts pressure on institutions to
deliver the outcomes that it is their students are looking for
in the terms of job placement, economic mobility, and higher
wages.
I am a fan of this model. I am looking forward to its
further expansion.
Mr. Jacobs. Thank you. I agree. It was an intriguing idea.
When you mentioned you said a statement, pressure on
institutions. I just want to hear your thoughts. Having talked
to our local, one of our local community colleges, Erie
Community College in the Buffalo area, I was amazed by the
amount of children that go to those schools and maybe the
entirety of their first semester will be in remedial courses
because they received a diploma at their high school, but they
did not--they need remedial education.
They really were not, had not met the rigors that they
needed. In that regard, they are burning up some of their
student loans on having to pay for something they were supposed
to learn in high school. Do you think there should be some
accountability on those institutions? Some skin in the game if
they do not do their job? Educate the kid that they are
supposed to, that they give a diploma to?
Dr. Akers. Sure. I am not an expert on K-12 education
explicitly, but I do think that there are certainly failures in
the K-12 system of education that are making it more
challenging for postsecondary institutions to do the work that
we are asking them to do.
Mr. Jacobs. Thank you very much. I yield back.
Mr. Scott. Thank you. I am not aware of any----
Ms. Billy. Mr. Chairman, I am sorry.
Mr. Scott. Yes.
Ms. Billy. Hi. Mr. Chairman this is Carrie Billy with
AIHEC. I was wondering if I could respond to that.
Mr. Scott. Please, please do.
Ms. Billy. No. I just wanted to mention to the
Representative well actually you cannot participate in Federal
financial aid of any type until you are in the program, until
you are in an academic program. If you are in completely
remedial education, you are not participating at that time.
There were several attacks against tribal colleges, or
statements made about tribal colleges that frankly are not
true. I would just like to address. First, the data that Ms. I
believe Akers cited was--is IPED's data, which is not--as I am
sure she knows, particularly relevant to tribal colleges,
American Indians, or community colleges.
We have our own data base where we collect information that
is actually relevant to our institutions that more accurately
tells their story, more completely. For example, part-time
students often are not included. Tribal colleges offer a number
of credential programs and certificate programs that also
aren't captured. I mentioned earlier, tribal colleges are
nation builders.
If our Nation needs short-term certificates, that is what
tribal colleges do. That is not captured in any of the data she
cited. Our institutions are open door institutions, like
community colleges, we serve any student who is in need. About
60 percent of our students do test into developmental ed
because of failed K-12 systems.
We believe the comparison that is cited should be of
students who are of the same caliber. It is very difficult to
do at regional and other institutions because they mostly will
not admit those students. They would just leave them out of the
workforce entirely.
Tribal colleges are addressing those kinds of students.
Many of our students are first-generation. They have never had
the opportunity to enter college before. They are first
generation because until, I do not know--thirty, fourty, fifty
years ago, American Indians were not even admitted to higher
education, many could not even go. In this State, I am in
Virginia right now, could not even go to college, to high
school in this State.
That is why tribal colleges were created as bridge
institutions, and that is a function that they proudly continue
to serve. Our tribal colleges are bridges to mainstream
institutions. A student might come for a year and then transfer
to a mainstream institution. That is also not captured in the
data that Ms. Akers cited.
If you ask any administrator at a mainstream regional
institution and they will tell you that the most successful
students, American Indian students, are the ones that attended
a tribal college first.
Mr. Scott. Thank you. Thank you. There appears to be no one
else seeking recognition. I want to thank our witnesses for
your time and testimony. Today we discussed the important role
of tribal colleges and universities in strengthening Native
communities and expanding access to higher education and
propelling underserved students to the middle class and beyond.
I am disappointed that my colleagues across the aisle
decided to disregard the historic nature of the hearing, and
instead tried to focus on student loan reforms, especially when
we consider that only one TCU actually participates in the loan
programs.
I am also troubled that some of our colleagues have
asserted that TCUs are not serving their students well, they
criticized TCUs based on a flawed perception of the sector's
outcomes and pointed to data indicating low graduation rates
for that sector. However, what is not mentioned is how--and I
think we just heard this at the end, TCUs provide access to
educational opportunities to underserved students despite
operating often under resource constraints.
This is even more true for TCUs because unlike other land
grant colleges and universities, State and local governments
are not obligated to provide any funding support. Instead, TCUs
are primarily supported by the Federal Government through the
Higher Education Act, and Tribally Controlled College and
Universities Assistance Act of 1978.
I would like to urge all of our colleagues to consider how
we can actually support these institutions in their vital work,
and ensure that other institutions of higher learning can learn
from their success. Unfortunately, as our witnesses have
shared, TCUs are severely under resourced, forcing them to do a
lot more with less.
The pandemic only worsened the financial strain, so to help
the TCUs recover from the pandemic, Congress delivered more
than 367 million dollars in dedicated Federal COVID relief aid.
However, we know that our work to support these institutions
cannot end there.
We must secure enhanced and sustained funding so the TCUs
can continue educating generations to come. I look forward to
working with our colleagues on this committee and relevant
stakeholders to make sure that our TCUs and Native students
succeed.
I want to thank our witnesses again, and if there is no
further business to come before the subcommittee, the
subcommittee is now adjourned. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 12:29 p.m., the Subcommittee adjourned.]
[Responses to questions submitted for the record by Carrie
Billy follows:]
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[Responses to questions submitted for the record by Dr.
Cynthia Lindquist follows:]
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