[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                   EXAMINING UVALDE: THE SEARCH FOR 
                 BIPARTISAN SOLUTIONS TO GUN VIOLENCE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                   SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME, TERRORISM,
                         AND HOMELAND SECURITY

                                 OF THE

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEETH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

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                      THURSDAY, DECEMBER 15, 2022

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                           Serial No. 117-78

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         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
         
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]         


               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
               
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                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
50-358                       WASHINGTON : 2022                    
          
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                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                    JERROLD NADLER, New York, Chair
                MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania, Vice-Chair

ZOE LOFGREN, California              JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Ranking Member
SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas            STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
STEVE COHEN, Tennessee               LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas
HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,      DARRELL ISSA, California
    Georgia                          KEN BUCK, Colorado
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida          MATT GAETZ, Florida
KAREN BASS, California               MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana
HAKEEM S. JEFFRIES, New York         ANDY BIGGS, Arizona
DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island     TOM McCLINTOCK, California
ERIC SWALWELL, California            W. GREG STEUBE, Florida
TED LIEU, California                 TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin
JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland               THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky
PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington          CHIP ROY, Texas
VAL BUTLER DEMINGS, Florida          DAN BISHOP, North Carolina
J. LUIS CORREA, California           MICHELLE FISCHBACH, Minnesota
MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania       VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas              SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
JOE NEGUSE, Colorado                 CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon
LUCY McBATH, Georgia                 BURGESS OWENS, Utah
GREG STANTON, Arizona
VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
MONDAIRE JONES, New York
DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
CORI BUSH, Missouri

         AMY RUTKIN, Majority Staff Director and Chief of Staff
              CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Minority Staff Director 
                                 ------                                

        SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME, TERRORISM, AND HOMELAND SECURITY

                    SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas, Chair
                    CORI BUSH, Missouri, Vice-Chair

KAREN BASS, California               ANDY BIGGS, Arizona, Ranking 
VAL DEMINGS, Florida                     Member
LUCY McBATH, Georgia                 STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania         LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas
MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania       W. GREGORY STEUBE, Florida
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island        TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin
TED LIEU, California                 THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky
J. LUIS CORREA, California           VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas              SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
STEVE COHEN, Tennessee               BURGESS OWENS, Utah

                      KEENAN KELLER, Chief Counsel
                    JASON CERVENAK, Minority Counsel
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

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                      Thursday, December 15, 2022

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, Chair of the Subcommittee on 
  Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Texas     2
The Honorable Andy Biggs, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee 
  Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of 
  Arizona........................................................   115
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Chair of the Committee on the 
  Judiciary from the State of New York...........................   117
The Honorable Jim Jordan, Ranking Member of the Committee on the 
  Judiciary from the State of Ohio...............................   119

                               WITNESSES

Faith Matt, Senior at Texas State University
  Oral Testimony.................................................   122
  Prepared Testimony.............................................   125
Dr. Roy Guerrero, Board-Certified Pediatric Specialist, Uvalde, 
  Texas
  Oral Testimony.................................................   128
  Prepared Testimony.............................................   131
The Honorable Roland Gutierrez, Texas State Senate
  Oral Testimony.................................................   135
  Prepared Testimony.............................................   137
Jack Brewer, CEO, The Brewer Group
  Oral Testimony.................................................   139
  Prepared Testimony.............................................   142
John R. Lott, Jr., President, Crime Prevention Research Center
  Oral Testimony.................................................   145
  Prepared Testimony.............................................   148
Nicole Melchionno, Senior, Newtown High School
  Oral Testimony.................................................   166
  Prepared Testimony.............................................   168
Chief Anthony D. Holt, Chief of Police, Wayne State University 
  Police Department, Special Assistant to the President of the 
  National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives 
  (NOBLE)
  Oral Testimony.................................................   169
  Prepared Testimony.............................................   171
T. Christian Heyne, Vice President of Policy and Programs, Brady
  Oral Testimony.................................................   177
  Prepared Testimony.............................................   179

          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

A report entitled, ``Investigative Committee on the Robb 
  Elementary Shooting'' Texas House of Representatives, submitted 
  by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, InvestigChair of the 
  Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from 
  the State of Texas, for the record.............................     8
Materials submitted by the Honorable Mary Gay Scanlon, a Member 
  of the Subcommittee Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security 
  from the State of Pennsylvania, for the record
  A report entitled, ``Uncovering the Truth About Pennsylvania 
    Crime Guns,'' Brady..........................................   210
  An article entitled, ``The Shoddy Conclusions of the Man 
    Shaping the Gun-Rights Debate,'' The New Yorker..............   253
Materials submitted by the Honorable Andy Biggs, Ranking Member 
  of the Subcommittee Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security 
  from the State of Arizona, for the record
  An article entitled, ``Chicago Man Shoots, Wounds Two of Three 
    Suspects in Carjacking,'' CBS Chicago........................   288
  An article entitled, ``Woman Defends Herself With Concealed-
    Carry Gun, Shoots Would-Be Carjacker,'' Newsweek.com.........   289
Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, Chair of 
  the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security 
  from the State of Texas, for the record
  An article entitled, ``A Partial List of Mass Shootings in the 
    United States in 2022,'' The New York Times..................   296
  An article entitled, ``Sandy Hook Survivor, 17, Tells Her Story 
    for First Time Since Tragedy 10 Years Ago: `I Thought I Was 
    Going to Die' ,'' People.....................................   300
  An article entitled, ``They hoped she was hiding in the Uvalde 
    school. Instead, she was gone,'' The Washingoton Post........   306
  An article entitled, ``The Red City Defund Police Problem,'' 
    Third Way....................................................   309
  An article entitled, ``The Red State Murder Problem,'' Third 
    Way..........................................................   319
An article entitled, ``Attach on 2A Researcher, Dr. John Lott, 
  Rebuffed by Definders,'' Ammoland Inc., submitted by the 
  Honorable Thomas Massie, a Member of the Subcommittee Crime, 
  Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Kentucky, 
  for the record.................................................   330
Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, Chair of 
  the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security 
  from the State of Texas, for the record
  A document entitled, ``Examples of mass shootings involving 
    assault weapons and/or large capacity magazines''............   342
  A Bill entitled, ``Kimberly Vaughan Storage Act''..............   346

 
 EXAMINING UVALDE: THE SEARCH FOR BIPARTISAN SOLUTIONS TO GUN VIOLENCE

                              ----------                              


                      Thursday, December 15, 2022

                        House of Representatives

        Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security

                       Committee on the Judiciary

                             Washington, DC

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:39 a.m., in 
Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Sheila Jackson 
Lee [Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Jackson Lee, Nadler, Demings, 
McBath, Dean, Scanlon, Bush, Cicilline, Lieu, Escobar, Biggs, 
Jordan, Gohmert, Steube, Tiffany, Massie, and Owens.
    Staff Present: Aaron Hiller, Chief Counsel and Deputy Staff 
Director; John Doty, Senior Advisor and Deputy Staff Director; 
David Greengrass, Senior Counsel; Moh Sharma, Director of 
Member Services and Outreach & Policy Advisor; Cierra Fontenot, 
Chief Clerk; Kimia Rahbar, Staff Assistant; Merrick Nelson, 
Digital Director; Keenan Keller, Chief Counsel, Crime; Mauri 
Gray, Deputy Chief Counsel, Crime; Natalie Knight, Counsel, 
Crime; Nicole Banister, Counsel, Crime; Jill Ginstling, 
Detailee, Crime; Veronica Eligan, Professional Staff Member/
Legislative Aide; Christopher Hixon, Minority Staff Director; 
David Brewer, Minority Deputy Staff Director; Tyler Grimm, 
Minority Chief Counsel for Policy and Strategy; Ella Yates, 
Minority Member Services Director; Jason Cervenak, Minority 
Chief Counsel for Crime; Kiley Bidelman, Minority Clerk; and 
Brock Snyder, Minority Staff Assistant.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The Subcommittee will come to order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare 
recesses of the Subcommittee at any time.
    [Audio played.]
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Good morning, and welcome to today's 
hearing, ``Examining Uvalde: The Search for Bipartisan 
Solutions to Gun Violence.''
    The sound we just heard was rampant fire on that day.
    As we go forward, let me remind Members of this very 
important hearing that we'll have the ability to communicate on 
an email address and a distribution list to circulate exhibits, 
motions, other written materials that Members might want to 
offer as part of our hearing today.
    If you would like to submit materials, please send them to 
the email address that has been previously distributed to your 
offices. We will signature the materials to Members and staff 
as quickly as possible.
    I would also ask all Members to please mute your 
microphones when you're not speaking. This will help prevent 
feedback and other technical issues. You may unmute yourselves 
any time you seek recognition.
    I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
    I wanted, however, the very first sound to be in this 
hearing gunfire, even before we offered instructions, 
directions, email: Gunfire. The reason is because imagine in 
the whole litany of gunfire in America, through weapons of war, 
there was no notice, there was no information given, there were 
no signals, there were no instructions about emails or anything 
else that might have saved our children. It was gunfire.
    So, today, the Subcommittee turns, once again, to the 
subject of gun violence, examining this ongoing crisis by 
focusing on one of the most terrible tragedies in our Nation's 
histories: The murder of 21 people, 19 of them children, on May 
24, 2022, at the hands of an 18-year-old armed with an AR-15-
style rival at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas. That 
school still stands.
    In September, Representative Joaquin Castro and I held a 
hearing in Uvalde where they listened to parents of victims, 
citizens, and Arnulfo Reyes, a teacher in room 111.
    Mr. Reyes told us that he did not realize what was 
happening until he saw the bullets breaking sheetrock off the 
walls. He saw the shooter's shadow and the sparks coming from 
the gun as he fired into his classroom, hitting him and then 
his students. No notice. Gunfire.
    As Mr. Reyes lay on the floor for some 77 minutes, the 
shooter sat at his desk and taunted him. He poured water on 
him. He smeared Mr. Reyes's own blood onto his face, then shot 
him in the back to make sure he was dead.
    Fortunately, Mr. Reyes survived. We got a call--when he got 
the call that morning, Julio Cazares rushed to the school, a 
parent. While he and other parents begged officers to rush in, 
he could hear shots being fired inside. As officers began to 
bring children out of windows, Julio hoped to see his daughter, 
Jacklyn, emerge from one of those windows. Sadly, he did not 
see her. Instead, he later saw his daughter pulled out of an 
ambulance at the hospital.
    We now know of the cascade of failures that led to the 
tragedy at Robb Elementary School. An investigation by a 
special Texas House investigative Committee found that systemic 
failures and egregiously poor decision-making contributed to 
the loss of life.
    Gunfire makes no appointment. Gunfire by an automatic 
weapon, a weapon of war, never stops.
    Despite the eventual presence of 376 law enforcement 
officers, not one of them confronted or engaged the shooter. 
After a group of first officers on the scene tried to approach 
rooms 111 and 112, were met with gunfire, gunfire from AR-15-
style rifle. Without an assault weapons ban, more people will 
die. If we're not going ban them, then law enforcement must be 
trained to confront these weapons of war. Yes, we must train 
law enforcement like warriors in a battle on the combat field.
    Gunfire from an AR-15-style rifle turned those armed 
officers on their heels and left them paralyzed in the hallway 
for well over an hour. Uvalde Sheriff Ruben Nolasco led a 
litany of chaos, confusion, and inaction that day. His 
failures, coupled with the presence of an assault rifle, left 
every little hope--left very little hope for the children in 
rooms 111 and 112. Although the officers had information that a 
child was on the phone with 9-1-1, surrounded by dead bodies, 
Sheriff Nolasco led officers away from the immediate threat, 
instead of ordering them to storm the room and try to save the 
children.
    That day law enforcement's failures of implementation, 
planning, training, and duty delayed paramedics' ability to 
reach those who might be saved. We saw the video of parents 
trying to climb through windows or trying to break through 
doors.
    Let me be very clear: This is not a comment on the millions 
of law enforcement officers who today and days gone by stand 
ready to serve, who have broken into places to save people, 
stop burglaries, stop murders, save children, dumped into 
water, and risked their lives. Don't dare suggest that is the 
comment today. Don't dare.
    What we are saying is that we have to be honest, and that 
babies have died, and parents are mourning, and the Federal 
Government has to be the final and ultimate word of responding 
to the sacrifice of those babies and the parents who mourn.
    We know for certain that Eva Mireles, a teacher in room 
112, died in an ambulance. Three young students died in local 
hospitals, including Jacklyn, who died at 1:17 p.m. from 
gunshot wounds to the chest.
    We will hear today from Faith Mata, a young woman whose 10-
year-old sister, Tess, was murdered that day. Ms. Mata will 
tell us about the hours she spent waiting, hoping to hear that 
her sister was among the survivors, only to have officers ask 
her for her DNA sample to identify her sister's body.
    Law enforcement failed the Mata family and every other 
family represented at Robb Elementary School that day, 
including the siblings of Uziyah Garcia who are so afraid to go 
to school that they get sick to their stomachs. The victims of 
the horror--and these are babies, 10-year-olds--that took place 
in Uvalde, were also failed by this country's gun laws.
    While some States restrict the purchase of long guns, 
including assault weapons until the age of 21, Texas and 
Federal law allow those guns to be purchased at age 18. The 
Uvalde shooter asked multiple people to purchase guns for him 
before he turned 18, but fortunately, they refused. As soon as 
he was old enough to legally buy the guns for himself, again 
18, not 21, he purchased two AR-15-style rifles. In less than a 
week, he amassed more than 2,000 rounds of ammunition, with the 
bulk of it being delivered to his doorstep. It is important to 
note that the shooter had already purchased 60 30-round 
magazines, a holographic sight, a snap-on trigger system in 
February before his 18th birthday.
    In some States, the shooter's behavior might have allowed 
someone to raise a red flag and alert authorities that he might 
be a danger to others and prevent him from obtaining a firearm, 
but Texas has no such law. These must be Federal laws. Again, a 
red flag law would have stopped the shooter from obtaining 
these deadly weapons and saved so many precious lives. They 
shouldn't be able to opt in. It should be a Federal law.
    As a country, we banned the sale of assault weapons for 10 
years, but when the ban expired, we saw a tripling of number of 
active shooter incidents, a tripling in the average number of 
people murdered in active shooter incidents. The mass shooters, 
the school shooters, the grocery store shootings, have 
continued unabated.
    Yesterday we observed the 10th anniversary of the massacre 
at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. 
Nothing has been done. On that horrific day, 20 first graders 
as young as six years old, and six teachers were lost to 
gunfire. Like Uvalde, the Sandy Hook shooting was perpetrated 
by a young man only 20 years old, armed with an AR-15-style 
assault weapon who had killed his mother before going to the 
school.
    Today in memory of that tragedy, we will also hear from 
Nicole Melchionno, a survivor of that massacre. She remembers 
all too well what it was like as a seven-year-old child to hide 
in a classroom, trembling in fear, thinking she would never see 
her family again as the crack of gunfire echoed the halls of 
her school. Nicole still bears the scars of her trauma. Yet, 
she will come today and bravely tell her story in the hopes 
that we will act, so no child will ever endure that again.
    Democrats in Congress have spent more than two decades 
trying to do something, anything to stop the violence and end 
the bloodshed. We hoped the Republicans would join us, but they 
opposed us at every turn. During this Congress alone, Democrats 
have put forward numerous policy proposals to prevent losses of 
life like those in Uvalde, Buffalo, Sandy Hook, Tree of Life, 
El Paso, Las Vegas, and the Pulse nightclub, among others.
    Through this Committee we have supported raising the age of 
firearms, extreme risk protection orders or red flag laws, a 
renewed assault weapons ban, restrictions on large capacity 
magazines. I introduced a simple bill honoring Kimberly Vaughan 
Firearm Safety Storage Act. She died at Santa Fe, 14-year-old, 
which would have encouraged the proper storage of firearms and 
ammunition.
    Democrats also put forth numerous bills to invest in fund 
law enforcement, including bills that would provide better 
training and targeted resources, coordinate the creation of an 
active shooter alert, and ensure better communication and trust 
between our law enforcement and the communities they serve.
    Led by our Chair, Chair Nadler, we've worked every single 
day. Bill after bill, policy after policy, our friends, 
Republicans colleagues, oppose our efforts to keep our 
communities safer. They've repeatedly opposed legislation that 
could prevent violence, and they have opposed investments in 
effective law enforcement.
    While rejecting and distorting our commonsense proposals, 
Republicans have offered no credible policy solutions of their 
own. We hope today, as the meeting says, that we can develop a 
bipartisan approach. As a result of these lax gun laws and 
underinvestment in law enforcement, have led to rates in red 
States, have had spillover effects across the country as guns 
flow into our communities without restraint.
    In June, after Uvalde, we were able to enact the Bipartisan 
Safer Communities Act. While the Act took a step forward on gun 
violence prevention, we have so much more to do.
    Without further action, our communities will continue to 
suffer losses of life like those in Uvalde, which affect our 
mental health, our sense of safety and security, and our trust 
in law enforcement.
    Just this morning on the news, I heard a citizen in 
Washington say, as much as they try to work, he's just sick and 
tired of gun violence. That is why our hearing today is so 
important. We should all be sick and tired of gun violence and 
violence by weapons of war.
    I look forward to hearing from each of our distinguished 
guests who will speak directly to the issues of gun violence 
that threaten our Nation's safety. I thank our survival 
Witnesses for their bravery and willingness to share their 
stories.
    Without objection, I submit into the record the following 
documents: Texas House of Representatives Investigative 
Committee on the Robb Elementary School Shooting Interim 
Report; the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training 
Alert Centers, Robb Elementary School Attack Response 
Assessment and Recommendations.
    [The information follows:]     

                     MS. JACKSON LEE FOR THE RECORD

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    Ms. Jackson Lee. I now recognize the distinguished 
gentleman from Arizona, Ranking Member Biggs, for his opening 
statements.
    Mr. Biggs, you're recognized.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I appreciate you holding this hearing today, and appreciate 
you recognizing me for a few minutes to provide an opening 
statement.
    We'll never forget the horror of Uvalde, and those who were 
victimized will also remain in our hearts and our minds.
    As the Chair has said, there was a cavalcade of failures on 
that day. There are many reasons that evil persists and that 
evil acts. We welcome our two Witnesses today.
    We have Dr. John Lott, Jr., who's an economist, world-
recognized expert on guns and crime. He served as the Senior 
Advisor for Research and Statistics in the Office of Justice 
Programs and then the Office of Legal Policy in the United 
States Department of Justice and has held research or teaching 
positions at various academic institutions including the 
University of Chicago, Yale, the Wharton School at the 
University of Pennsylvania, Stanford, UCLA, and Rice. He was 
the Chief Economist at the U.S. Sentencing Commission during 
1988-1989, and he holds a Ph.D. in economics from UCLA.
    Nobel Laureate Milton Friedman noted John Lott has few 
equals as a perceptive analyst of controversial public policy 
issues. He's a prolific author for both academic and popular 
publications and has published over 100 articles in peer-
reviewed academic journals, and written 10 books, including 
``More Guns, Less Crime.''
    His most recent books are, ``Dumbing Down the Courts: How 
Politics Keep the Smartest--How Politics Keep the Smartest 
Judges Off the Bench.'' He's been one of the most productive 
and cited economists in the world. From 1969-2000, he ranked 26 
worldwide in terms of quality-adjusted total academic general 
output and fourth in terms of total research output. Among 
economics, business, and law professors, his research is 
currently the 14th most downloaded in the world.
    I also welcome the Honorable Jack Brewer to be with us 
today. He is from Fort Worth, Texas. Grew up in Grapevine, went 
on to a successful athletic career, both in track and field and 
in professional football.
    Beyond that, though, Mr. Brewer is a humanitarian. He's an 
ordained evangelist who's dedicated his life to initiatives 
aligning with biblical commandments to serve the fatherless, 
the poor, the widows, and the captives. That's what his focus 
is. He will be talking today about the need for families, if 
we're going to stop violence of all kinds, in particular, gun 
violence.
    To date, his foundation has delivered over $70 million in 
medical aid, supports over 55 orphan care centers, and helped 
deliver sports equipment to over 1 million underserved 
children, and helps bring medical care to over 20,000 women and 
children around the world.
    I'm delighted to welcome our two Witnesses here today.
    One other thing that our distinguished Chair said today is 
we have to be honest. Despite the title of the hearing today, 
there hasn't been an honest engagement and search for 
bipartisan solutions to gun violence mostly because there's one 
solution for my friends across the aisle. That is to emasculate 
the Second Amendment and remove guns from legal, lawful, and 
law-abiding citizens.
    For proof, just look at the bills they've either introduced 
or brought through the Committee in the 117th Congress. For 
example, they have pushed legislation to infringe upon the 
rights of law-abiding Americans, such as Federally mandating 
background checks on all firearm transfers, red flag laws, 
banning certain semiautomatic firearms, extending background 
check-waiting periods, establishing new Federal databases, and 
establishing a national firearm registry.
    Those proposals, gun law experts have explained, will do 
nothing to end gun violence or end the criminal use of 
firearms. They did this, while demonstrating a complete lack of 
respect for and understanding of the Second Amendment rights of 
law-abiding Americans.
    Don't take my word for it. Let their own words speak for 
themselves. President Biden stated, quote,

        A nine-millimeter bullet blows the lung out of the body. The 
        idea of these high-caliber weapons is of--there's simply no 
        rational basis for it in terms of self-protection, hunting. I 
        mean, I just--and remember the Constitution, the Second 
        Amendment, was never absolute.

    Law enforcement, military, and ballistic experts agree that 
the claim, those claims are pure nonsense. When talking about 
the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans, one of 
the Representatives on this Committee stated, quote, ``Spare me 
the bull about constitutional rights,'' close quote. The same 
Representative, also, questioned whether or not someone with a 
semiautomatic rifle has ever been stopped by a law-abiding 
American with a firearm. Specifically stated, I don't think 
there's a sing--and I'm quoting here.

        I don't think there's a single incident, and maybe there's one, 
        but I've not found one of an assailant using an assault weapon 
        that was stopped by a person with a gun.

    Literally a month before he made that claim, a woman 
stopped what law enforcement indicate was likely to be a mass 
casualty event in West Virginia when she shot a man carrying an 
AR-15-type rifle with her handgun. There's one example.
    An example from November 24, 2022, was when a 23-year-old 
woman in a suburb of Chicago, licensed to have a carry conceal 
permit, shot a man trying to break into her car early in the 
morning.
    Just last week a 56-year-old Chicago man being robbed by 
four suspects on Chicago on the West Side turned the tables and 
shot three of the robbers, wounding two of them and saving his 
own life.
    Democrats aren't interested in searching for the causes of 
these horrific and tragic acts of violence which is, as I said, 
the persistence of evil in the world. How do we curb that? 
They're only interested in trampling on the Second Amendment 
rights of law-abiding Americans.
    Today, we're examining the tragedy in Uvalde. The murderer 
there was estranged from his father, and engaged in numerous, 
heated conflicts and arguments with his mother who was having 
trouble raising her son.
    I bring up the shooter only because the shooter in Uvalde 
is not unique in having a difficult and troubled home life. Dr. 
Peter Langman, an expert on the psychology of school shooters 
and other perpetrators of mass violence, examined 56 school 
shooters and found that, quote,

        Eighty-two percent of the sample either grew up in 
        dysfunctional families or without their parents together for at 
        least a significant part of their lives.

    Research from Dr. Brad Wilcox, a Professor of Sociology at 
the University of Virginia and Senior Fellow at the Institute 
for Family Studies, finds that males growing up in single-
mother homes are nearly twice as likely to end up delinquent 
compared to males who enjoy good relationships with their 
fathers. This is not to denigrate single-mother homes, having 
my own mother grow up in such a home. It is only to talk about 
the difficulties and the exacerbation of raising a family that 
goes hand in hand with these difficult situations.
    How long can we continue to ignore these findings if we're 
really going to search for bipartisan solutions to put a stop 
to these tragic, tragic events?
    My colleagues across the aisle would like to ignore the 
connection between adolescent males growing up without their 
fathers, and these violent events, and yet, studies indicate 
very clearly there is a significant correlation, and probably a 
causative effect.
    In fact, during a hearing this Congress, in the plea for 
new gun control laws, our own Chair stated:

        A recent study in the American Journal of Medicine found that 
        compared to 29 other high-income countries, the gun-related 
        murder rate in the United States is 25 times higher, even when 
        you adjust for population differences. Americans are 
        disproportionately killed by gun violence. One of the critical 
        differences, of course, is that other countries have stronger 
        gun safety laws.

    The fact is this country has numerous gun laws and 
penalties already in place for those who violate those laws, 
for those who sell guns, those who distribute guns, those who 
traffic in guns, and those who use guns illegally for violent 
purposes.
    What the Chair failed to acknowledge is the fact that 
nearly a quarter of children in the United States live with 
only one parent. That is also more than any other country on 
the planet, and it has a direct correlation to all the violence 
in our society, including gun violence.
    It is now time for us to proceed with this hearing. I'm 
looking forward to the compelling testimony of all those who 
are here today. It is also something, if you're going to look 
at this testimony, it's important to look at root causes for 
this violence and not focus solely on taking away Second 
Amendment, constitutionally protected rights.
    With that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. We thank the Ranking Member.
    The Chair now recognizes the Chair of the Full Committee, 
the gentleman from New York, Mr. Nadler, for his opening 
statement.
    Chair Nadler. Thank you, Chair Jackson Lee, for convening 
this hearing.
    I thank the Witnesses for being here to inform this 
Committee about how the tragedy in Uvalde with can help us 
continue to develop effective solutions for combating gun 
violence.
    For decades now America has faced increasing crisis of gun 
violence. From the mass shootings that have become a routine 
part of American life, to smaller incidents of community 
violence, to shootings within our homes and our places of 
worship, gun violence has permeated every aspect of our 
society.
    While every incident of gun violence deserves recognition 
and remembrance, it is the mass murder of children and the 
schools that we trust to keep them safe that strikes the 
deepest chord. Yesterday marked the 10-year anniversary of the 
massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, 
Connecticut, the deadliest grade school shooting in our 
Nation's history, a history that is littered with far too many 
school shootings.
    We'll never forget the 20 children, young children, only 6-
7 years old, and six adults who lost their lives to a 20-year-
old young man armed with a semiautomatic assault rifle, a 
weapon of war.
    We will not forget the national outcry for change, for 
meaningful gun legislation that would prevent similar incidents 
in the future. For nearly a decade, those cries went unheeded 
as Republicans in Congress stymied any attempt at reforming our 
gun laws.
    So, month after month, year after year, the shootings have 
continued. San Bernardino, Orlando, Las Vegas, Parkland, 
Pittsburgh, Thousand Oaks, El Paso, and Boulder, and still 
Congress did nothing.
    This past year we reached a turning point, when in the span 
of 10 days, 31 people were killed, were murdered in mass 
shootings in Buffalo and, of course, in Uvalde. The massacre of 
19 school children and two adults at Robb Elementary School was 
a tragedy so horrific that it is difficult to comprehend.
    From the lax gun laws that allowed the 18-year-old shooter 
to stockpile military-style weapons and ammunition just days 
before the shooting, to law enforcement's unfathomable failure 
to respond quickly, and to take all possible actions to save 
the lives of children, the Uvalde shooting encapsulates so much 
of what characterizes America's crisis of gun violence.
    It is through the lens of the tragedy in Uvalde that we 
can, we must look for solutions. This Committee did just that 
the week after our earlier hearing, moving the Protecting Our 
Kids Act, which passed the House on June 8th of this year, with 
the vast majority of Republicans voting no.
    The Act--contained several critical measures to prevent gun 
violence, including raising the age for buying semiautomatic 
rifles like those used in Sandy Hook, Buffalo, and Uvalde, 
establishing new Federal offenses for straw purchasers of 
large-capacity magazines, safe storage requirements, and 
statutory bans on bump stocks and ghost guns.
    Because of continued Republican opposition, the Act did not 
have sufficient support to pass the Senate, despite the cries 
of the families in Uvalde and throughout the Nation.
    Just a few weeks later, Democrats and Republicans and the 
House and the Senate finally were able to come together to pass 
the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act. Though it was not nearly 
as expansive and our House-championed bill, we were nonetheless 
proud of what we were able to achieve with the Bipartisan Safer 
Communities Act.
    The first meaningful gun legislation in decades, the Act 
requires enhanced background checks for firearms purchasers 
under the age of 21, it creates new Federal straw purchasing 
and trafficking offenses, and it provides critical funding for 
violence intervention initiatives, children and family mental 
health services, and school programs, including safety 
programs.
    It is a critical first step, but it is only a first step. 
Experience has shown us that there is still so much more to be 
done. This Committee has tried, but most Republicans have 
opposed every type of gun legislation we have advanced: Extreme 
risk protection orders, banning assault weapons, and raising 
the age to purchase semiautomatic firearms. Each of these 
measures could have prevented the tragedy in Uvalde and so many 
others.
    It is no surprise then that in the few months since Uvalde 
we have continued to see more mass shootings, from the July 4th 
shooting in Highland Park, Illinois, to the Walmart shooting in 
Chesapeake, Virginia, to the recent massacre at Club Q in 
Colorado Springs, we have learned that even when police act as 
swiftly as possible, and even when heroic citizens risk their 
own lives to stop the bloodshed, there is no act of heroism 
that can stop an AR-15 assault-style weapon from killing dozens 
of people within minutes.
    As we have said time and again, as the evidence has shown, 
this is a uniquely American problem. It demands a solution from 
us, Representatives Americans have chosen to pass laws to 
protect them while safeguarding their constitutional rights.
    As Mr. Biggs quoted me as saying, ``Americans are 25 times 
as likely to die from gun violence as citizens in other 
countries.'' No one can slander the American people by saying 
that we are 25 times as mentally ill.
    We are focusing today on the tragedy in Uvalde because it 
highlights so many of the issues that we must address to stop 
the bloodshed, extraordinary harm caused by assault-style 
weapons and ammunition, the likely effects of gun-safety 
legislation, such as extreme risk protection orders, active 
shooter alert systems, and raising the age of purchasing 
semiautomatic weapons, best practices and policies for law 
enforcement agencies who respond to active shooter situations, 
how to best protect our youngest and most vulnerable Americans 
in their schools, and how violence intervention strategies can 
work with traditional responses to reduce gun violence.
    I look forward to hearing our Witness' testimony about 
these and other issues related to our crisis of gun violence. I 
thank the Witnesses for coming today. Again, I express my 
gratitude to Chair Sheila Jackson Lee, who has fought so 
passionately for gun safety legislation, for convening this 
hearing.
    I yield back the balance of my time.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I thank the gentleman for his testimony 
and his statement.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Full Committee, 
the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Jordan.
    Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I would just want to thank all our Witnesses for being here 
today but, in particular, Mr. Lott, who is an expert on 
firearms and firearm laws, and Mr. Brewer, for his work in 
supporting the institution of the family.
    The first institution the good Lord put together wasn't the 
church. It wasn't the State. It was moms, dads, and kids. The 
strength of that institution ultimately determines the strength 
of our culture, our society, and our great country. So, we 
appreciate all our Witnesses but, in particular, the two 
Republican Witnesses.
    With that, I would yield back and look forward to the 
testimony.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The gentleman yields back.
    Thank you so much to the Ranking Member of the Full 
Committee.
    It is now my pleasure, with a sense of sadness, to 
introduce today's Witnesses.
    First, Faith Mata is the big sister of Tess Mata, one of 
the 21 lives lost at Robb Elementary School in May of this 
year. She's joined by her parents, Jerry, an aviation mechanic, 
and Veronica, a kindergarten teacher. I would like them to 
stand with their baby, Tess.
    Faith is a senior at Texas State University, where she is 
pursuing a degree in psychology.
    Thank you, family.
    Dr. Roy Guerrero is a board-certified pediatric specialist 
who was born and raised in Uvalde and attended Robb Elementary 
School. He treated several of the victims on that day, that 
terrible day. Dr. Guerrero is their doctor. He is the 
children's doctor, and he saw these children over and over 
again. Dr. Guerrero has over 16 years of experience in 
medicine, including serving as Chair of Pediatrics at Val Verde 
Regional Medical Center, Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at 
Baylor College of Medicine, and serving as the Medical Director 
and CEO of Encina Pediatrics and Primary Care. He didn't sleep 
for days as he was working with families. Can you imagine his 
pain?
    Thank you, Doctor.
    Thank you, Faith, for being here.
    The Honorable Roland Gutierrez, who has served in the Texas 
State Senate, representing District 19, he previously served as 
a Member of the Texas House of Representatives from 2008-2021. 
He is a representative of the people. I met him for first time 
going to Uvalde, the first member, as we worshiped in church 
that Sunday after the massacre.
    He never stopped. He never stopped comforting those 
parents. He gave up his life, daily activities to just be there 
and fight for them. Senator Gutierrez has a Bachelor of Arts in 
Political Science from the University of Texas at San Antonio, 
a juris doctorate from St. Mary's University of Law. We thank 
you for being here.
    Jack Brewer, who has a master's in education, a CEO and 
Portfolio Manager of the Brewer Group, Incorporated, founder 
and Executive Director of the Jack Brewer Foundation, Chair of 
the America First Policy Institute Center for Opportunity Now. 
He is an ordained minister and a Professor at the Fordham 
Gabelli School of Business, where he is the Program Executive 
for the Athletes and Artists Executive MBA Program. Mr. 
Brewer's also a former NFL safety, who was appointed to the 
U.S. Commission for the Social Status of Black Men and Boys 
under the previous Administration.
    Welcome.
    Jack Lott, Jr., Ph.D., is an economist and commentator who 
focuses on guns and crime. During the previous Administration 
he served as a Senior Advisor for research and statistics in 
the Office of Justice Programs and in the Office of Legal 
Policy in the United States Department of Justice.
    Dr. Lott has held research and teaching positions at 
various academic institutions, including the University of 
Chicago, Yale University, the Wharton School of the University 
of Pennsylvania, Stanford University, UCLA, and Rice 
University. He was the Chief Economist at the United States 
Sentencing Commission from 1988-1989. He holds a Ph.D in 
Economics from UCLA. Welcome.
    Nicole Melchionno. Did I get that? Melchionno? She's got a 
thumb's up. She was in the second grade at Sandy Hook 
Elementary School when a gunman entered the school and killed 
26 people on December 14, 2012. Yesterday was the 10-year 
commemoration and the recognition of that day.
    In 2018, she participated in the March for Our Lives as she 
began to mature, a student-led demonstration calling for an 
action to end gun violence. In 2020, she joined the Junior 
Newtown Action Alliance, became its legislative coordinator 
last year. Nicole is just a senior at Newtown High School at 
this time. Welcome.
    Chief Anthony D. Holt is Associate Vice President and Chief 
of Police at Wayne State University. During a career spanning 
more than 40 years, Chief Holt rose through the ranks and held 
multiple positions within the university police department. He 
is a pass President of the metro Detroit chapter of the 
National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives and 
currently serves as special advisor to the national President 
of NOBLE and is a member of the NOBLE executive board. Welcome.
    T. Christian Heyne is Vice President of Policy at Brady. He 
began advocating for stronger gun laws after a man with a 
history of violence shot his parents on Memorial Day in 2005. 
His father survived multiple gunshots but, sadly, his mother 
was killed. In the wake of this tragedy, Mr. Heyne and his 
father started a chapter of Brady campaign to prevent gun 
violence in Ventura County, California, and helped to pass 
several local ordinances.
    Since that time Mr. Heyne has successfully developed, 
lobbied, and helped implement a variety of local State and 
Federal policies.
    Thank you for your work on the Emily Vaughn Storage Act and 
other legislation.
    Before joining Brady, he served as a legislative director 
at the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.
    As I begin to welcome all of you as distinguished 
Witnesses, and thank you for your participation, I will start 
by reassuring the Nation that you are under oath and telling 
the truth to your best of your capacity.
    I ask you to stand and raise your right hand at this time.
    Would you raise your right hand? I will administer the 
oath.
    Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the 
testimony you're about to give is true and correct to the best 
of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God?
    Let the record show the Witnesses answered in the 
affirmative.
    Please note that your written statement will be entered 
into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, I ask that you 
summarize your testimony in fivefive minutes to help you stay 
within that timeframe.
    There is a timing light on the screen. While the light 
switches from green to yellow, you have one minute to conclude 
your testimony. When the light turns red, it signals that your 
five minutes has expired.
    Before I recognize Faith Mata for five minutes, allow me to 
acknowledge a friend and colleague who joined me on the first 
and I believe only field hearing from the Federal Government in 
Uvalde, and that is Congressman Castro of San Antonio is here 
with us today. I thank him for his presence here today.
    It is important for the family to know that the Federal 
Government from different committees is concerned about you.
    So, I ask Ms. Mata to begin her testimony. You're 
recognized now for five minutes.

                    TESTIMONY OF FAITH MATA

    Ms. Mata. Good morning.
    First and foremost, I would like to thank Chair Jackson 
Lee, Ranking Member Biggs, and other Members for allowing me 
the speak and share my story.
    My name is Faith Mata. I am a 21-year-old, coming up on my 
last semester of college, preparing for my future, a new future 
without my little sister, Tess, and a future of having to 
navigate this new life without her.
    I was an only child for quite some time. It was just myself 
and my parents, Veronica, and Jerry. Being alone was hard and a 
lesson of being independent. When I reached 10, my parents had 
the conversation to let me know they would not be having any 
more children. It would just be me. I remember crying and 
begging for them to please bring me a sibling. I didn't want to 
grow up alone.
    Not even three months later my mom got a call letting her 
know she was pregnant, and I now was going to be a big sister. 
I can still recall the days going with my mom to her 
appointments, seeing the sonograms, and soon finding out Tess 
was a girl, all up until the day she was born, February 6, 
2012.
    Bringing Tess into our life was a blessing in disguise. My 
sister brightened our darkest days. Tess was the outspoken, 
courageous, daring, determined, and nurturing person in our 
family. Our family was whole at this point. We would have 
family night every Sunday where my dad would put on movies or 
suggest we play some board games. Tess convinced my parents to 
bring our mattresses into our living room, and we would all 
sleep in the same room. Those days were the best, no matter how 
annoying it was sleeping next to her.
    It was an unsaid tradition of taking countless road trips 
every summer to a new destination we had never been before and 
spending time just as a family. We were so happy. My family was 
perfect in my eyes.
    Then came time for me to move 2\1/2\ hours away from home 
to begin my college career. It was hard being away from home 
and not being able to see my sister grow day by day. Every time 
I came to visit, Tess was getting bigger and smatter before my 
very eyes. It is a beautiful thing to see as an older sibling. 
Being the older sibling, it is my duty and obligation to be her 
role model and the person whom Tess admired.
    She was my purpose and strength to be best I could be. It 
was always bittersweet, having her run out of our house to come 
and greet me with hugs and smiles. It hurt seeing her cry and 
beg me to stay just a little longer when I had to leave back 
home.
    Even though I was away at college, our bond was strong. It 
was so precious to me and her. We talked numerous times of her 
attending my soon-to-be alma mater and how she would live with 
me while she was going to school. We were planning our futures 
to make sure we would always be together.
    May 24, 2022, I was getting ready for work around noon when 
my cousin had alerted me to call my mom. My mom said it's okay. 
The officer said it was a barricaded subject. I proceed to call 
my dad. He's standing in front of Robb Elementary and tells me 
there are so many people here. It looks like a war zone.
    Fast-forward about an hour. News goes around. A teacher has 
been shot, along with eight students. My heart sinks. Still not 
knowing who the teacher is or the kids, my thoughts were it's 
not my sister. It can't be. This would never happen to us. Then 
full panic kicks in. My mom calls to me tell me they're moving 
kids to the civic center. No luck finding Tess. Dots start 
connecting. The teacher was, in fact, my sister's. Many of the 
kids that were considered missing at the time were all in the 
same two classes, room 111 and 112.
    My roommate drove me back to Uvalde, where along the way I 
was calling hospitals in San Antonio, Texas, looking for my 
sister. After two hours of driving, I was at the civic center 
with my parents where we waited in a room with other family 
members. We waited about 8\1/2\ hours until we found out my 
sister was among the 21 that were deceased.
    The days following the death of my sister, I took on the 
responsibilities and tasks that my parents could not bear to 
do. My parents should not have to plan their own child's 
funeral. So, I felt the need to step in when they needed me the 
most.
    Our life has changed forever. It has darkened because our 
light has left. The child and the little human who once made 
this family whole is no longer with us. Tess will never get to 
experience the life we had prayed she would live. She will 
never graduate high school, never fall in love herself, never 
be present at my wedding. We will never know how scared she was 
in her last moments in that classroom.
    All we have left is the questions which was once filled 
with her laughter and the stillness that only Tess could help 
us move out of.
    Today I am here, sharing my story. We are not tired of 
hearing the stories of victims, and hearing them from victims' 
families? Are we not tired of hearing yet another tragedy 
because of gun violence? When is enough?
    I truly hope that this never happens to any other family in 
the days, months, or years to come. This debatable topic on 
assault rifles should not be brought up again, because someone 
else's child or sibling was murdered. It's just an excuse at 
this point.
    You may never understand what my family is going through, 
and I'm not asking you to. Today, you can make a change to help 
families never have to feel what my family feels, the families 
of Uvalde feel, and the many others of the mass shootings.
    Thank you.
    [The statement of Ms. Mata follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much.
    We now recognize Dr. Guerrero. You're now recognized for 
five minutes.

                 TESTIMONY OF DR. ROY GUERRERO

    Dr. Guerrero. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I'm grateful for the chance to testify before this 
Committee and share my perspective on gun safety in America.
    As a rifle-owning son of a rancher, as a pediatric doctor, 
and as a member of a broken community traumatized by the loss 
of 19 children and two teachers in May, I believe my 
experiences reflect the deep complexities of the gun control 
issues. My feelings no doubt echo those of many in our country.
    Today, I want to share a few things that I know for 
certain, because I am a doctor and when it comes to solving 
problems, we doctors prefer to stick to the facts and the 
science, rather than get caught up in the emotion, no matter 
how hard that is.
    When you choose a career in medicine, you're signing up to 
make people better and save lives. Healing is always the 
ultimate goal, and we use a number of strategies to do that, 
depending on the challenge. In the modern, developed world, we 
have a plethora of incredible machines, tools, equipment, 
regimens, and machines that test, diagnose, administer, and 
sustain to cure. You've all, no doubt, crossed paths with at 
least one of these. Maybe it was a Doppler, an MRI machine, or 
a course of anti-COVID drugs.
    For my patients, I'm always looking for the most effective 
remedy or tool that I can find to relieve their pain, to stem 
the bleeding, or to kill the pathogen. So, I understand the 
power of an effective tool.
    The AR-15 is a very effective tool. It was designed to 
deliver quick and heavy fire in combat. It was made to be light 
and easy to use. It's as exacting in its application on the 
battlefield as radiation in a patient with cancer.
    So, let me ask you this: How comfortable would you be if 
every day during homeroom your kids and grandchildren were 
being administered radiation therapy for two hours? Never mind 
the books with suggested material in the library. I'm talking 
about highly radioactive particles flooding into the beautiful, 
healthy bodies of your precious children on a daily basis. Why 
not? We have all the potential to develop cancer--we all have 
the potential to develop cancer. Maybe it could be preventive.
    If this sounds like a ridiculous or terrifying prospect, 
you're right, because cancer radiation doesn't belong in the 
bodies of healthy children, just like AR-15s or any 
semiautomatic weapon that holds high-capacity magazines don't 
belong in the hands of everyday civilians, especially when 
they're not even old enough to buy a pack of beer. They're not 
appropriate for self-defense in the home, in the school, or in 
the supermarket. They are and always have been designed as 
military-grade killing machines.
    We made significant progress on sensible gun legislation. 
Most Americans agree that we need background checks, age 
limits, and safe storage rules. One of the arguments I hear on 
repeat from the course of objections to the ban of assault 
weapons is that the problem isn't the guns. It's the people who 
pull the trigger. This is a meritless argument.
    How does an anti-Mexican extremist walk into Walmart and 
kill 23 people in minutes without a semiautomatic rifle? How 
does an anti-LGBTQ radical slaughter 49 club goers without a 
SIG Sauer MCX? The children in the classrooms of Sandy Hook 
Elementary, Marjory Stoneman Douglas, and Robb Elementary 
School never stood a chance against the speed and power of the 
weapons they faced.
    Let me tell you. These kids, they weren't helpless victims 
before that day. They were spunky, intelligent, and street-
smart kids. I know this because some of them were my patients.
    Tess Mata, who you just heard about, I knew since she was a 
newborn. Amerie Garza was two months old. Amerie was trying to 
save her friends when the 18-year-old burst into her classroom, 
wielding the AR-15 he bought the day after his birthday. She 
was calling 9-1-1 when she was shot to death. She knew what to 
do. She was brave. She was a fighter. Against a weapon like 
that, she had no chance, no chance to run, to hide, or to shout 
for help.
    The following is audio that I was given by a parent of kids 
from across the rooms where the kids were murdered. These 
children survived. This is the shrill screaming of kids trying 
to get out while their classmates are being murdered.
    [Audio played.]
    Dr. Guerrero. Amerie's call never connected. When you see 
pictures of Amerie and her friends on the news, you should 
know. They didn't get buried, looking sweet and happy like 
their photos. Some were missing limbs. Some had holes in their 
tiny chests. You might mistakenly imagine a funeral where a 
child lies peacefully in a colorful coffin, but make no 
mistake, there's no piece in the death of a child by a weapon 
of war.
    Guns are now the leading cause of death among children. 
Yes, it's not the flu or drowning or even car accidents, 
because we dealt with that with seatbelt and car seat 
regulations. AR-type weapons and bump stocks play a devastating 
role in this tragic statistic. Here we are, still squabbling 
about who gets to keep what.
    Last time I told you I was here--I told you one of the 
reasons I wanted to work with young patients was because of 
hour flexible and open their minds are about treatment and 
learning from their experiences. Of course, they're not always 
enthusiastic at the outset.
    As a pediatrician, I had to learn a few strategies for 
dealing with children who didn't want to follow doctor's 
orders. I had to convince them to trust me when they're too 
scared to get a shot or get their blood drawn. So, you know 
I've got all kinds of tricks up my sleeve, more screen time, 
Disney pencils, and stickers. I might be the only doctor who 
doesn't give out lollipops, though.
    As I sit here today, 10 years after Sandy Hook and six 
months after the massacre in my own town of Uvalde, I'm asked 
what we can do about finding solutions to gun control. I find 
myself thinking about those pencils and stickers, because the 
naysayers and obstructionists in the debate about assault 
weapons, the people who don't wants to give up their toys, they 
look like adults, but they sound a hell of a lot like children 
to me.
    As I said, I'm a gun owner. I believe in the Second 
Amendment. I'm also a doctor, and I deal with facts over 
emotion. So, yes, I love an effective tool. When it comes to--
when a body comes into the hospital, riddled with bullets, 
there's no tool that's going to help. I'm left to wonder what 
it's going take to take these guns out of the equation. What is 
going to stop this?
    You've seen all the evidence you could possibly see that 
they inflict needless death and destruction. So, what's it 
going to take to change your minds? Children require lollipops 
for convincing. As their protectors, we just need to look at 
the horrific tragedies that repeat in our country time and time 
again. No convincing required.
    Thank you.
    [The statement of Dr. Guerrera follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The gentleman's time has expired.
    I thank the doctor for his testimony. Thank you.
    Senator Gutierrez, you're now recognized for five minutes.

             STATEMENT OF THE HON. ROLAND GUTIERREZ

    Hon. Gutierrez. Thank you, Chair Jackson Lee and Members of 
the Committee for this time.
    Ranking Member Biggs, I see you're coming back in. Thank 
you for the opportunity to speak to you.
    May 24th was the worst law enforcement response to one of 
the worst school shootings in our Nation's history. As 
policymakers, you and I have to grapple with how much loss of 
life is acceptable in relation to someone's freedom to obtain 
and carry a weapon that can inflict so much damage.
    I have to believe that we as lawmakers can solve this 
problem because the alternative is just too evil to 
contemplate.
    The shooter waited until his 18th birthday to secure an AR-
15 from the local gun shop. It was followed the next day by 
buying hundreds of rounds of ammunition at the same gun shop. 
On the third day, he followed it by picking up his internet-
bought Daniels Defense AR-15 at the same gun shop. Nobody asked 
questions. Nobody called the sheriff. Nobody cared.
    On the 24th, he began his shooting spree by shooting and 
wounding his grandmother. He proceeded to the school and killed 
19 children and two teachers.
    Let me be clear. Police waited outside for 77 minutes while 
children lay dying, wounded, waiting for help that would not 
come. They were injured, huddled on the classroom floor. 
Children called the police as the gunman taunted them to see if 
they were dead or alive. Brave little girls called 9-1-1 while 
law enforcement waited outside just a few feet away.
    Not one law enforcement official took control inside or 
outside of that building. It is worth noting that this 
community asked the sitting Governor of Texas directly and 
through the Department of Public Safety for money to fix the 
radio system years prior to this massacre. It's the same radio 
system that the Director of the Department of Public Safety 
acknowledged in a hearing in the Texas Senate needed replacing.
    Local law enforcement at any level, not city, not county, 
police, they never, ever took command and control. The State 
police never took command and control either, even though they 
had 91 of their Operation Lone Star troops on the ground, 
including Texas Rangers, who stood around, talked to their 
supervisors over the phone, supervisors who did nothing, 
ordered no action.
    Law enforcement agents said over and over DPS is coming. In 
turn, DPS waited on Federal agents to breach the door to the 
classroom and try to end the suffering of the bleeding 
children. Without direction, law enforcement seemingly waited 
on each other to do nothing.
    Seventy-seven minutes later, a Federal BORTAC team, 
exasperated by inaction, used a key to enter the classroom to 
kill the gunman. One minute prior to the breach, DPS Captain 
Joel Betancourt issued a first radio order to the team that is 
about to breach, asking them to stand by. How much longer he 
wanted these kids to wait remains a mystery.
    At the end, kids were piled together in two heaps, in two 
classrooms. The teacher lay shielding several children as best 
she could. She and the children were all dead. Children bodies 
were dragged out into a hallway where, again, officers jammed 
the hallway, seemingly watching the few that were actually 
trying to administer aid to the remaining children that made it 
out alive.
    A child was dragged out of the hallway. Her face was gone. 
Hallways and classroom had blood like no horror movie you've 
ever seen. Off camera you could hear grown men throwing up from 
the sight of the horror, or perhaps the failure that they had 
caused.
    Thirteen injured children survived. Three others and one 
teacher were taken out alive but died on their way to the 
hospital and they bled out in that golden hour as troopers 
tended to their injuries.
    A brave little redheaded girl, Khloe Torres, said to one 
trooper, ``I called the police. Did you get my calls? Was it 
you I was talking to?'' she said to the female trooper. She 
cried and she asked for her friend, the same friend, Amerie 
Garza, who had covered her body, who had shielded her, Khloe's 
body, the friend who had saved her life. She cried, ``She's 
gone, isn't she? I know she's gone.''
    Khloe was on a bus because they couldn't get ambulances 
into the school. So, they took four kids on a bus, and she was 
riddled and covered in blood.
    In the aftermath, police pointed fingers at different 
agencies. We were led to believe that this was one incompetent 
school cop, then led to believe it was incompetent Uvalde 
police cop, then led to believe that it was a few officers from 
DPS and their incompetence. There is no transparency and no 
accountability to date.
    My question to the leaders of this country is: How many 
children have to be murdered before they are willing to ban the 
chosen weapon of these school shooters? How many people have to 
be killed before we take reasonable steps to end murder?
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    [The statement of Hon. Gutierrez follows:]
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    Ms. Jackson Lee. I thank the gentleman for his testimony.
    I now want to recognize Mr. Brewer. You're recognized for 
five minutes.

                    TESTIMONY OF JACK BREWER

    Mr. Brewer. Thank you, Madam Chair, Ranking Member Biggs, 
distinguished Members--
    Mr. Biggs. Is your mike on?
    Mr. Brewer. I'm sorry.
    Madam Chair Jackson Lee, Ranking Member Biggs, 
distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for the 
invitation to appear before you today.
    I'm a resident of Parkland, Florida, and I understand the 
impact of these tragedies on our communities. I'm a father of 
four.
    Unfortunately, I've experienced gun violence firsthand. At 
14 years old, my friend shot a skinhead in the neck in self-
defense after a group tried to break into his house. I will 
never forget the trauma I felt from having to serve as a 
witness in that case. Trauma and fear hardened me.
    After I was threatened and bullied and harassed by 
skinheads, I started to carry an illegal pistol at 15 years 
old, a .22 long, to be exact. I even took it to school after 
the skinheads threatened me.
    I didn't know it then, but I know it now: I was 
traumatized. I'll never forget being shot at and seeing a stray 
pellet skin my cousin's arm. I was a young kid with all the 
world in front of me. I was a straight-A student, a great 
multi-sport athlete, and even the director of my church choir.
    If I was caught with that gun in my pocket, I would not be 
testifying before you today. If I had shot and killed a 
skinhead or a bully back then, I may still be in prison serving 
a life sentence today.
    The difference between me and the hundreds of young Black 
boys who are shooting at each other every week in communities 
across America comes down to one word: Father. The reason I 
thought twice about ever using that illegal gun I carried in my 
pocket is because I had a hard-handed daddy at home that would 
whip my butt. I had a fasting and praying mom at home that 
taught me the fear of my Father which art in heaven, and I had 
a father in the flesh and a Father in the spirit. Proverbs 
13:24 says: ``He that spareth the rod hateth his son, but he 
that loveth him chastises him betimes.'' And ``betimes'' means 
before the usual or expected time, early.''
    The very school shootings that have brought so much 
darkness to our Nation's history are exacerbated by 
fatherlessness. A 2016 study found that out of a sample of 56 
shooters, only 18 percent grew up in a stable household with 
both biological parents. We know this Uvalde shooter did not 
have a man, a man of God in his life.
    When I saw that this was a bipartisan hearing to find 
solutions to gun violence, I prayed that the men and women of 
God in this room would finally be bold enough to focus on the 
root cause. Talking points may win elections but addressing the 
root cause is the only way to solve a crisis.
    Research has indicated as many as 85 percent of shooters in 
communities were previously arrested and most of them arrested 
for violent crimes.
    My foundation has worked on addressing the root cause of 
these issues in some of the most impoverished Black communities 
on the planet.
    Recently, a neighbor of mine was shot in the face, and the 
two young gunmen ran past the kids at my youth center. As you 
can imagine, they are traumatized, fearful, and hardened, the 
same feelings and emotions that I had at their age, carrying 
guns and always looking over my shoulder. The difference is 80 
percent of my kids at my youth center are fatherless.
    Gun laws are the least of their worries. If they cuss a 
teacher out, refuse to do their work, or beat up someone, they 
have little or no consequences in the public school system 
today. Parents have little or no responsibility for the actions 
of their children.
    If we are serious about addressing gun violence, we need to 
first get serious about bringing the paddle and prayer back to 
our public schools. Proverbs 22:6 says:

        Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he 
        will never depart from it.

    In today's America, we have 18.6 million fatherless kids, 
more than any Nation on Earth. We all know that kids are 20 
times more likely to have a run-in with law enforcement if 
they're fatherless. We do not even teach the Ten Commandments 
in our public schools anymore, much less hold our children 
accountable to them.
    As Mr. Nadler mentioned earlier, this is an American 
problem. If we leave the Capitol today and decide to ban all 
guns, have we really done anything to address the root cause of 
gun violence?
    Walk into any prison in America and you will see a facility 
full of men who are locked up for crimes related to illegal 
guns, charges ranging from murder and robbery and trafficking, 
carjacking, possession, distribution, to name a few.
    I run programs for thousands of men in prison, many of whom 
committed gruesome gun-related crimes. The majority of these 
men share one common theme: They are all fatherless.
    Many of my students transition out of prison and remain in 
our second chance programs. Several even work for my 
organization.
    One of the most violent men that I've ever met in prison is 
currently my roommate. He found full salvation through his 
Father in heaven, and he was able to meet his biological father 
for the first time at 50 years old after completing 22 years in 
prison for violent crimes.
    Yes, he shot a man. He happened to be sent to a prison with 
real Christian-based rehabilitation programs.
    Unfortunately, despite the chatter about criminal justice 
reform in our public prison system, in jails across America 
we're warehousing men and women and we're not rehabilitating 
them.
    The solutions I speak do not come from me, as I have never 
committed gun violence. I've only had to deal with the results 
and the victims as a minister and as a father.
    I assume not many of you in this Chamber have ever pulled 
the trigger on an illegal gun. If we really want to solve these 
issues--
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Brewer, can you wrap up.
    Mr. Brewer. --don't you think that we'd consider proven 
solutions?
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Can you come to a conclusion? Thank you.
    Mr. Brewer. As a proud American, I'm a dedicated servant to 
my community. I pray that we can humble ourselves and stop 
being conformed to the misguided politics of this world, but be 
transformed by the renewing of our minds, that we may prove 
what is good and acceptable and the perfect will of God.
    Thank you for having me, Ms. Chair.
    [The statement of Mr. Brewer follows:]
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    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Steube. Madam Chair, I have a question, a point of 
parliamentary inquiry.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. What is the gentleman's inquiry?
    Mr. Steube. Every single one of the first three Witnesses, 
which are the Democratic Witnesses, went over on their time. 
When we got to the first Republican Witness, you chided him 
down.
    So, I would ask if you're going to have discernment and 
openness and allow each of these Witnesses to talk and give 
their statement, then to allow that across the board for all 
the Witnesses.
    Mr. Brewer. In the name of Jesus. Thank you.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, for the record, let the gentleman 
reflect that Mr. Brewer went over by two minutes and I tapped 
for him to come to a conclusion. I think Mr. Brewer was able to 
complete his statement. Fairness is a golden rule of which I 
abide by, as the Chair.
    Dr. Lott, you are recognized for five minutes.

                  TESTIMONY OF JOHN LOTT, JR.

    Mr. Lott. Thank you very much. I'd like to thank Chair 
Jackson Lee, Ranking Member Biggs, and other distinguished 
Members of the Subcommittee for the opportunity to speak to all 
of you.
    I desperately want to do something to stop the horrific 
violence that Representative Lee and the other Witnesses have 
so movingly described this morning, but I want to do something 
that actually matters. Unfortunately, many of the proposals 
won't help or will actually make matters worse.
    Take background checks on the private transfers of guns, 
known as universal background checks. There isn't one mass 
public shooting this century that would have been stopped if 
such a law had been in effect and had been perfectly enforced.
    Worse, no one is talking about the massive errors in the 
background check system and how it overwhelmingly discriminates 
against Black and Hispanic males being able to go and defend 
themselves and their families.
    We hear calls for bans of so-called assault weapons, but 
the vast majority of firearms in the United States, including 
these assault weapons, are semiautomatic guns that are 
functionally identical.
    Even the influential Associated Press Stylebook 
acknowledged earlier this year that terms such as ``assault 
weapon'' and ``weapons of war'' convey, quote, ``little 
meaning,'' and, quote, ``are highly politicized,'' end quote. 
The AP makes it clear that these firearms are not used by any 
militaries around the world. Despite the references a couple 
times, they are not automatic weapons.
    President Biden has frequently said you only need an AR-15 
to hunt deer if the deer have Kevlar vests. An AR-15 functions 
exactly the same as any small-caliber hunting rifle, firing the 
same bullets with the same rapidity and doing the exact same 
damage. Banning guns based on them looking like military 
weapons--the key phrase is often ``military style''--makes no 
sense.
    Of course, banning all semiautomatic guns, as President 
Biden has repeatedly called for over the years, would mainly 
affect law-abiding citizens. While I guess at least it's 
logically more consistent than banning military-style weapons, 
it would make it much more difficult for Americans to use guns 
defensively.
    If you want to ban all semiautomatic rifles, what's the 
alternative? A manually loaded gun, where you have to 
physically put another round in the chamber after you fire each 
shot?
    If you face multiple attackers or you fire and miss or fire 
and wound but don't incapacity the attacker, someone may not 
have the luxury of time of manually reloading the gun to be 
able to go and protect themselves.
    Claims about these laws having overwhelming support are 
based on surveys that simplify and mischaracterize what these 
laws do. Surveys show that when Americans are accurately 
informed about what these laws change, strong support changes 
to strong opposition.
    There are four facts I'd like to try to get across.

    (1) Over 92 percent of violent crime in America has nothing 
to do with firearms. That percent has remained fairly constant 
for the last couple decades. The vast majority of violent crime 
has nothing to do with firearms.

    (2) While the U.S. media doesn't give much attention, if 
any, to coverage of mass public shootings in other countries, 
mass public shootings per capita are relatively low in the 
United States compared to a number of countries in Europe as 
well as the rest of the world.
    Over the 20 years from 1998-2017, the United States had 1.1 
percent of the world's share of mass public shooters and 1.8 
percent of the mass public shooting murders. Both are 
significantly less than the U.S.'s 4.6 percent share of the 
world population.
    People don't take into account that the United States has 
over 330 million people. You can't compare it to a country with 
five million or even Germany with 80 million without adjusting 
for the different sizes in population.
    Many of these countries with much higher mass public 
shooting rates and deaths have very strict gun control laws.

    (3) Ninty-four percent of the mass public shootings occur 
in places where civilians are banned from having firearms.
    We've heard many times today about the Buffalo mass 
murderer earlier this year. If you read his manifesto, he 
spends a great deal of time, like many of these killers do, 
explaining why he picked the target that he did. I'll read it 
to you.
    His manifesto says, quote:

        Attacking in a weapon-restricted area may decrease the chance 
        of civilian backlash. Schools, courts, or other areas where 
        concealed carry are outlawed or prohibited may be good areas of 
        attack. Areas with strict gun control laws are also great 
        places for attack.

    I can give you quotes from one manifesto after another, 
from one diary after another, and they're on our website at 
crime
research.org, where these killers time after time tell you, but 
the media ignores the fact, never reports this part of what's 
in their manifestos.

    (4) I'd like to get across is the most vulnerable people in 
our society benefit the most from owning guns. If my research 
convinces me of anything, there are two groups of people who 
benefit the most from being able to go and protect themselves.
    One is the people who are most likely victims of violent 
crime. That's overwhelmingly poor Blacks who live in high-crime 
urban areas.
    Anybody who's read any academic research knows that I think 
police are extremely important, but police understand 
themselves that they virtually always arrive on the crime scene 
after the crime's occurred. That raises a question of how 
people should act when they're having to confront a criminal by 
themselves? The research shows overwhelmingly that by far the 
safest course of action for people to take is to have a gun.
    That's particularly true for people who are relatively 
weaker physically, women and the elderly. You're almost always 
talking about a male criminal doing the attack, and when a man 
is attacking a woman there's a much larger strength difference 
that exists there than when a man's attacking another man.
    We've heard a lot about different attacks that occurred 
this year.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Dr. Lott, can you finish? Will you be 
finishing soon? Thank you.
    Mr. Lott. Yeah. Okay. Sorry.
    If you go through the list, the Robb Elementary School in 
Uvalde, Texas, was a gun-free zone. The Tulsa, Oklahoma, 
hospital shooting was a gun-free zone. The Walmart mass murder 
in Virginia was a gun-free zone. I could go through others. Our 
research shows that, overwhelmingly, when you see these 
attacks, they occur in schools where teachers and staff are not 
allowed to carry. It's not by accident.
    Thank you very much.
    [The statement of Mr. Lott follows:]
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    Ms. Jackson Lee. The Witness' time has expired.
    I am now pleased to recognize Nicole Melchionno for five 
minutes.
    Welcome, dear. Thank you so very much.

                 TESTIMONY OF NICOLE MELCHIONNO

    Ms. Melchionno. My name is Nicole, and on December 14, 
2012, I was a second-grader at Sandy Hook Elementary School. I 
was sitting on the carpet with my classmates waiting for my 
teacher to give us directions for the day as we heard what 
sounded like large metal pans being smashed together come from 
the hallway.
    My teacher quickly ran to the door to see if anyone was in 
the hall and pulled two students into our classroom to join us 
in lockdown. She then shut the door and turned off all the 
lights.
    As the gunshots continued to ring through the hallways, we 
huddled by our cubbies and my teacher pulled over a desk and 
grabbed a book to try and read to us so we could calm down. As 
she was reading, she began to heavily shake, and I knew we were 
in danger at this point. I felt a strong sense of nausea come 
over me as I thought I would be the first to die if the gunman 
got into our classroom, because I was close to the door.
    We then heard a knock and shake on the door handle, which 
was terrifying because we didn't know who it was, but after 
deciding to open the door we were evacuated out of the school 
by the police and taken to the firehouse nearby to reunite with 
our families. The firehouse was chaotic, and everyone was 
running around yelling, looking for their children, as 
everything was still so unclear.
    I then went home that day, and my town endured the most 
horrific aftermath after finding out 26 beautiful, innocent 
souls were taken from us that day. In less than five minutes, 
an AR-15 fired 154 bullets, killing 26 people.
    How do we continue to allow this?
    I have grown up in a world where the unimaginable happens 
over and over again, uncovering trauma over and over again. I 
am here not only because of the trauma I have endured in the 
past, but also because I am terrified of it happening again in 
the future. We live in the constant aftermath of inaction from 
our lawmakers that we voted into office to do everything in 
their power to protect us.
    I have met amazing people in this fight, both survivors and 
victims of gun violence, which is a community that has grown 
far too big. We have been pushing for an assault weapons ban, 
which is a crucial step to decreasing these mass shootings with 
unacceptable death tolls.
    We also need red flag laws implemented in all 50 States as 
well as a Federal safe storage law for all gun owners and 
universal background checks. That is just the beginning of the 
work that needs to be done.
    We see time and time again that these shootings are pure 
acts of hate, Buffalo, Uvalde, Pittsburgh, and Parkland. 
Whether it's racial inequity, anti-Semitism, socioeconomic 
backgrounds, high schools, grocery stores, the cold grip of gun 
violence has touched far too many and has no boundaries.
    America is alone in this battle to live freely for a 
reason. Our lawmakers have not taken bold, life-saving, crucial 
action to protect what the majority of Americans believe in, 
which is commonsense gun safety measures.
    I am here today to beg you to please do everything in your 
power to enact measures that prevent everything you care about 
being lost within seconds, because with no action it is not a 
matter of if, it is a matter of who is next. We ran out of time 
over a decade ago. We need to act now.
    Thank you.
    [The statement of Ms. Melchionno follows:]
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    Ms. Jackson Lee. I thank you very much for your testimony, 
Nicole.
    Chief Holt, you are recognized now for five minutes.

                TESTIMONY OF CHIEF ANTHONY HOLT

    Chief Holt. First, I'd like to thank the Committee for the 
time for allowing me to testify this morning in this important 
matter.
    I first want to bring you greetings on behalf of our 
National President, Brenda Goss Andrews--she could not be 
present today due to a previous commitment--of the Executive 
Board Members and constituents of the National Organization of 
Black Law Enforcement Executives (NOBLE).
    I serve as the Special Assistant to Brenda Goss Andrews and 
I'm the current Chief of Police of Wayne State University in 
Detroit, Michigan. I have served over 40 years in the law 
enforcement profession, and I have experience responding to 
more than my share of violent gun victims, including the loss 
of life of one of my officers, who was fatally shot in the 
head. Like everyone here, parents are not supposed to bury 
their kids.
    Yesterday marks the 10th anniversary of the Sandy Hook 
Elementary School shooting that occurred in Newtown, 
Connecticut, where 20-year-old Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 
people. The vast majority of the victims were children, ranging 
in age of 6-7 years old. In total, 20 of the 26 victims were 
children. The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting is the 
deadliest mass shooting in an elementary school in U.S. history 
and the fourth deadliest mass shooting overall.
    We at NOBLE released a statement acknowledging the 10th-
year anniversary and once again express our heartfelt prayers 
and condolences to the affected families and communities.
    Unfortunately, our Nation again experienced a mass shooting 
in Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, resulting in the 
deaths of 19 students and two teachers at an elementary school 
not unlike Sandy Hook Elementary School. Again, we want to 
express our heartfelt prayers and condolences to the affected 
families and communities.
    Of course, there is a difference in time, place, location, 
victims, and the circumstances leading up to the violent act of 
shooters of both mass shootings. However, there are certain 
undeniable elements within our Nation that existed during both 
the Sandy Hook shooting and the Robb Elementary School 
shooting, the main one being the lack of an assault weapon ban.
    NOBLE is very concerned about the level of gun violence in 
the United States and specifically the correlation between 
violence and proliferation of assault weapons and high-capacity 
ammunition magazines.
    It is our organization's opinion that violence, 
particularly gun violence, is a public health issue. As with 
all public health issues, it demands a comprehensive, 
nonjudgmental, pragmatic, evidence-based approach to saving 
lives and reducing injuries.
    NOBLE, along with organizations such as the National Gun 
Law Enforcement Partnership to Prevent Gun Violence, is 
committed to addressing the pervasive nature of gun violence 
and the horrific impacts on communities across America. 
Specifically, firearm-
related injuries and deaths, to include homicides, suicides, 
accidental shootings, is unacceptable and demands immediate 
attention.
    The aim of this program is to reduce injuries and deaths 
due to improper gun storage, especially as it relates to the 
safety of young children. This is a program that the National 
President of NOBLE launched entitled, ``It Starts At Home.''
    Additionally, NOBLE advocates for limiting high-capacity 
ammunition magazines to ten rounds and the regulation of new 
semiautomatic assault weapons. In 2016, assault weapons 
accounted for one in four police officers killed in the line of 
duty through gun violence.
    NOBLE supported the Public Safety Recreational Firearms Use 
Protection Act or Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994.
    A positive step toward addressing the level of gun violence 
in our Nation was taken with the passage of the Bipartisan 
Safer Communities Act. NOBLE supported this legislation. The 
bill combines gun safety legislation with mental health and 
school security resources. The bipartisan gun deal increases 
funding and improves mental health, school safety, crisis 
intervention, and anti-violence programs.
    Among other things, it requires tougher background checks 
for younger gun buyers, those who are deemed a risk in certain 
cases, and closes the so-called ``boyfriend loophole.'' This 
bars intimate partners who have been convicted of domestic 
violence crimes against their significant other from having a 
gun even if they don't live together.
    Lastly, law enforcement plays a critical or crucial role in 
preventing gun violence and solving crime. Effective strategies 
for the strict enforcement of laws concerning the illegal 
possession, trafficking, and criminal use of firearms are vital 
and need to be supported by data, research, technology, 
training, and best practice.
    Because the public's health and safety depend on the 
efforts of law enforcement agencies, we must have the resources 
sufficient to prioritize the protection of officers and 
communities against illegal guns and firearm violence.
    The crisis of gun violence in our country necessitates the 
sustained, coordinated, and collaborative efforts involving 
citizens, elected officials, and the entire criminal justice 
system.
    Our members stand ready to meet the needs of our 
communities and Nation.
    Thank you again for this opportunity to provide testimony.
    [The statement of Chief Holt follows:]
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    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you.
    I now recognize the gentleman, Mr. Heyne, for five minutes.
    Thank you.

                TESTIMONY OF T. CHRISTIAN HEYNE

    Mr. Heyne. Chair Jackson Lee, Ranking Member Biggs, and 
distinguished Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today. My name is Christian Heyne, and I 
am the Vice President of Policy and Programs at Brady, one of 
the Nation's oldest gun violence prevention organizations.
    Brady works across courts, communities, and Congress to end 
America's gun violence epidemic. Our organization carries the 
name of Jim Brady, who was shot and severely injured in the 
assassination attempt on President Reagan's life.
    Jim and his wife Sarah led the fight to pass the landmark 
Brady bill nearly 30 years ago, and I have been a part of this 
movement for almost two decades, and much like Jim and Sarah 
Brady, I come to this work unwillingly.
    Memorial Day weekend 2005, my parents, Tim and Jan Heyne, 
were returning the boat they borrowed from my dad's best 
friend, Steve Mazin, after a vacation spent in Big Bear, 
California.
    What they didn't know is that as they began unhitching the 
boat in the driveway, a gunman with a long history of violence 
and a backpack filled with firearms was parked across the 
street. Steve was chatting with my mom when the gunman emerged 
from his vehicle, walked up the driveway, and shot Steve in the 
stomach. He immediately turned the gun on my father, shooting 
him multiple times.
    Rather than running away, my mom had stayed with Steve. She 
was trying to desperately keep him alive. The gunman walked 
back, stood over her. In the last words she would ever speak, 
she begged and pleaded for him to stop. When it was clear that 
he wouldn't, she got up, ran a few steps before he shot her.
    On May 30, 2005, my mom, Jan Heyne, was killed with a 
single bullet to the spine.
    Over the next day, this gunman terrorized our community, 
hospitalizing two children, killing their mother, and shooting 
and wounding a sheriff's deputy. Thanks to the incredible work 
from neighbors, first responders, trauma surgeons, my father, 
he survived, and we'll forever consider ourselves very deeply 
lucky for that.
    Despite the efforts of many, including my mother, Steve, 
unfortunately, also died from his wounds.
    Now, after years of working in the gun violence prevention 
movement, I have realized that the only truly remarkable part 
of my story is how unremarkable it actually is. Our lives were 
forever altered, but we had simply joined an ever-growing club 
of people devastated by an epidemic of gun violence that 
continues to rage on with a regularity that no other 
industrialized country allows.
    I have also learned that so much of this pain and anguish 
is inextricably tied to failures of policy.
    Today we are discussing bipartisan solutions to gun 
violence within the context of a horrific mass murder that took 
place in Uvalde, Texas. The lives of 19 children and two 
educators were ended with an assault weapon in yet another 
devastating attack on a school.
    We also hold this conversation 10 years and one day after 
the heinous shooting at Sandy Hook. We look at these shootings 
and we ask: How is it possible that something like this can 
happen? In the past 10 years, we've asked this question again 
and again and again. The answer, however, is simple: No 
community is truly safe from gun violence when our leaders have 
done so very little to prevent it.
    So, 10 years and more than a million gun deaths and 
injuries later, we're still here, in spite of the fact that a 
vast majority of gun owners, nongun owners, Democrats, 
Republicans, and Independents overwhelmingly support policies 
that can prevent it--by expanding and strengthening the Brady 
background check system, by preventing guns from being 
trafficked into communities and investing in those communities 
to break generational cycles of violence, by reducing rates of 
suicide, domestic violence, and unintentional shootings by 
incentivizing and requiring the safe storage of firearms, and, 
yes, by mitigating mass shootings by reinstating the ban on 
assault weapons and large-capacity magazines.
    Let's be clear, more guns are not a solution. That is a 
myth perpetuated by an industry that wants to sell more guns. 
If more guns made us safer, we would already be the safest 
country on the
planet.
    American gun violence is a multifaceted issue that will 
persist unless our elected leaders enact targeted solutions. If 
not, we will be back here again 10 years from now asking the 
same question yet again.
    I leave this Committee with one final reminder--that your 
decisions here have tangible impacts in all our lives. Think of 
the 350,000 people killed by guns since the Sandy Hook 
shooting, grimly disproportionate number of whom were Black men 
and victims of suicide. Think of the jarring fact that the 
leading cause of death in America right now for the first time 
in our history is firearms.
    What I will think about is my wedding day. On the most 
significant day of my life, there was an empty chair that my 
mom should have been in. I'll think about all the times I 
wanted to pick up the phone, tell her a story, or hear her 
laugh. I'll think about how she's never held her grandchildren. 
I'll think about all the families this year that will have to 
live through Christmas without their child and the 
inevitability of those who will join our club unless 
Representatives here take the requisite action to prevent it.
    I sincerely thank the Committee for this opportunity to 
testify, and I look forward to your questions.
    [The statement of Mr. Heyne follows:]
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    Ms. Jackson Lee. I'm angry. Legislators are not supposed to 
be enraged. We're supposed to simply just stand with stoic 
faces, let Witnesses pour their souls on the table.
    First, let me thank all the Witnesses for your opening 
statements. The procedures ask me to say that we'll now proceed 
under the five-minute rule with questions. It's an impossible 
task, because none of you should be here. None of you should 
have to tell these stories. Most of all, the victims or the 
victims' family, or the survivors, or the Mata family, or 
Nicole.
    Faith, could you tell me--and my time is only five 
minutes--more about those first days and weeks after you and 
your family lost your precious Tess?
    Ms. Mata. Yes. So, after we lost my sister, we were flooded 
with family, friends, news media constantly coming and knocking 
on our door. My parents were not present the first two weeks, 
so I kind of took charge and was having to talk to family, 
friends, having to talk to news media, and having to ask for 
our own privacy.
    You never think that you have to actually ask for your own 
privacy when you lose a loved one, but during a time like this 
we did. It was having to--we were basically having to navigate 
our own grief that was a public issue.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. How deep was the pain? How deep was the 
pain?
    Ms. Mata. It hurts. I lost my other half. I lost my person. 
My parents lost their youngest kid. How do you not look at us 
or the other families of mass shootings and not feel for us?
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Do you think it was a kid that didn't 
behave that killed your sister, or was it an assault weapon 
that killed your sister?
    Ms. Mata. I believe mental health played an issue. When we 
make it accessible for people with mental health problems to 
get these weapons, we're failing America. You failed my sister.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you.
    Dr. Guerrero, a pediatrician has a happy job with happy 
faces from birth as you watch them grow up. I'm just going to 
have to ask, you have clinical experience, how bad were the 
wounds? I need you to describe how bad were the wounds that you 
saw?
    I want everybody to see how many times this scene was 
repeated in Uvalde, how many times it occurred at Sandy Hook, 
children, and then we can go across the line from Pulse to El 
Paso. In this instance, caskets of children.
    Could you explain that wound, please, from this type of 
weapon?
    Dr. Guerrero. Right. So, I think it's important for 
everyone to realize that there were two wounds that I saw, 
because there were only two kids that I saw at that point in 
time that made it to the hospital. Everyone else was dead in 
the classrooms.
    The wounds I did see, as we saw from my previous testimony, 
a child that I wouldn't have recognized unless I saw pictures 
from before, from the award ceremony, because this child was 
headless, ripped apart. The other child had a chest wound so 
large you could probably put your hand through it.
    So, it's very hard for me to understand when people try to 
say that these types of weapons cause the same kind of injury 
as a pistol or any other smaller caliber weapon does, because I 
think we know that--or at least I know that's possibly not even 
true. Again, I'd never seen a kid shot before, but these were 
devastating injuries that no one could have survived.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Would you say the bodies were mutilated?
    Dr. Guerrero. Yes.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Would you say that if someone had a 
pistol, that would have equaled what this weapon did to these 
bodies?
    Dr. Guerrero. No.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Did you rush in as a first responder, 
really, to try and save lives?
    Dr. Guerrero. No. I was called in just to help in the 
aftermath because, like I said, there was no one being brought 
to the hospital that was savable whenever I got there, and I 
just happened to see these kids in the back that were already 
deceased.
    The kids that survived, shrapnel injuries, injuries that 
were tolerable that they could get past. The kids that were 
directly shot were dead.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Nicole, what are the fears, Ms. 
Melchionno, that you have even today? You're a high school 
senior. Is that not correct?
    Ms. Melchionno. [Nonverbal response. Yes.]
    Ms. Jackson Lee. What are the fears you have today? What do 
you live with?
    Ms. Melchionno. When I was younger, I dealt with bad 
anxiety. I wasn't really able to sleep very well for many years 
leading up to almost middle school.
    I think to this day, the parallels between Sandy Hook and 
Uvalde just are a big eye-opener to America that we really 
haven't done anything.
    A lot of gun violence in our country is due to systemic 
racism. It's due to poverty. It's due to homelessness. We know 
a lot of that is very underrepresented in the media.
    The fact that gun violence is the leading cause of death 
for children is unacceptable and leads everyone, the next 
generation, afraid to grow up in this country, to raise a 
family in this country.
    Myself, my friends still deal with the trauma from that 
day. We're all fighting, Newtown is still fighting 10 years 
later for change. It's sad that it's been 10 years and I have 
to sit here in front of you. Turning that trauma into action is 
not something that is easy to do, but we feel that it's 
necessary to get anywhere.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Nicole.
    I'll finish very quickly.
    Senator Gutierrez, you have reviewed the reports, watching 
body cam footage, speaking to the family members, when it comes 
to training our law enforcement officers respond to mass 
shootings. I just want to get past and get to the heart of it.
    What the heck happened there, if you could, please?
    Hon. Gutierrez. Chair, it was a system failure. It was 
communication failure. It was cowardice. It was, you name it, 
any number of things that happened on that day. As I've said 
before many times, this was the worst response to a mass 
shooting in our Nation's history.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. What should the Federal Government do?
    Hon. Gutierrez. One of the things that pervaded, 
Congresswoman, was a Federal agent went up to a DPS trooper. 
Nobody was in charge. Nobody took charge. One of the Federal 
agents said, ''I'm waiting on my BORTAC team to get here. When 
they arrive,'' then he said, ``I'm glad to help, whatever you 
need.''
    Then all of a sudden that became we're waiting on BORTAC. 
Prior to that, it was we're waiting on DPS. Prior to that, it 
was the sheriff. The sheriff says, ``I wasn't in charge. DPS 
was in charge.'' DPS says the sheriff was in charge.
    It all started with the story that this was all--the guy 
that was supposed to be in charge was the school cop. No one 
took charge.
    The sad part about these types of events is they don't 
happen in a vacuum. Had this young man not had access to this 
type of weapon, all those failures wouldn't have made a 
difference, but he did. He waited until his 18th birthday to 
get them, because he had tried and failed prior to that. 
Unfortunately, in Texas, you can get this type of weapon at the 
age of 18.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Let me thank you for your testimony as I 
yield to--
    [Audio recording played.]
    Ms. Jackson Lee. That is from a child in the room.
    Mr. Biggs, you are now recognized.
    Mr. Biggs. Mr. Owens is our first.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. You are now recognized.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I also want to thank the Witnesses here today.
    The violence and senseless murders that occurred in Uvalde, 
Texas, were horrific. As a father of six and a grandfather of 
16, my heart will always be heavy for those lost children that 
day.
    Following the Uvalde tragedy, my hope was that Congress 
would examine both the root causes of this violence and ways to 
strengthen our communities to make our schools physically safe.
    Unfortunately, my colleagues on the other side of the aisle 
put forth a hasty, partisan, and overreaching package of gun 
control bills that it developed without any Republican input.
    Today's hearing seems to be more of the same for the 
Democrats, beating a drum of restricting constitutional rights 
of law-abiding citizens while ignoring other contributing 
factors, leading to the increase of violence, and ignoring 
commonsense solutions that should be bipartisan.
    For example, in June, I introduced a Securing Our Students 
Act. This bill would have redirected billions of dollars of 
unused and already allocated funds from the American Rescue 
Plan to each district throughout our country. It would have 
provided safety, based on their customized needs, whether it be 
hard infrastructure, innovative software, or security 
personnel. If brought to the floor and passed, it would have 
guaranteed the conversation we're having today would never 
happen again.
    I was disappointed but not surprised that the Securing Our 
Students Act wasn't even considered by my Democratic 
colleagues. The safety of our children should be, as adults and 
parents, our number one priority. In this case, the Democratic 
majority purposely ignored the solution, keeping our children 
today at risk, all to their religious zeal and priorities for 
gun control.
    Another bill that should have had bipartisan support was 
the Luke and Alex School Safety Act introduced by 
Representative Mario Diaz-Balart in February of last year. This 
bill would have established a clearinghouse, a national 
database of school safety best practices, which would have been 
available to schools, law enforcement agencies, institutions of 
higher learning, and to the public.
    Again, the Democrats declined to bring this bill to the 
floor for discussion or a vote.
    There are root causes that my colleagues on the other side 
refuse to address, possibly because of the decades of anti-
family policies that have gotten us here.
    I am grateful to my friend Jack Brewer for joining us today 
and having the courage to tackle this topic. Jack and I have a 
lot in common, both proud conservative Black men, both former 
NFL players, and most importantly, both passionate about 
shining a light on the plague that has infected our country of 
sorry, self-centered, and cowardly men who, with no shame, 
abandon their children and families.
    I am proud to work with Mr. Brewer on H.R. 1180, a 
fatherhood initiative that simply states fatherhood is 
essential to the development of all children and that the 
increased involvement of fathers in the home will lead to 
economic prosperity, educational excellence, and improve social 
mobility for children across all racial and ethnic groups.
    With the remainder of my time, I'd like to give Mr. Brewer 
the opportunity to respond to the following questions. How does 
the absence of fathers in the home contribute to the violent 
behavior in adolescent males? What are some of the other 
contributing factors?
    Mr. Brewer. Thank you, Congressman Owens.
    I serve a number of fatherless kids every day, particularly 
in the State of Florida, and I also serve in prisons across the 
country. So, looking in the eye of men who have actually pulled 
the trigger, firing illegal guns, shooting at each other, 
killing people, and asking them, not asking myself what I feel 
and what policies and what changes can be made, but actually 
asking them: Why and how? How can we actually solve these 
issues versus being partisan?
    Fatherhood is essential. We see it. If we don't do 
something about this epidemic--if this was anything else, we 
would have already addressed it as Americans.
    When you look across and see 18.6 million fatherless kids 
in our Nation, it should make our stomachs hurt. The fact that 
every time we look up and see someone do a mass shooting, they 
never have a strong-handed daddy in their life.
    At what point are we going to be brave enough to address 
those root causes?
    I go to prisons every week. I'll be in another one next 
week. So, I'm crying out for those guys in the prisons, because 
at the end of the day they're growing up in poverty. They're 
growing up without parents. These kids are hurting. These are 
Americans.
    So, if we continue to put billions of dollars into our 
criminal justice system without putting any money into 
rehabilitation programs, without putting any money into 
programs that are going to make sure that our fatherless 
population have strong men who can mentor them, who can help 
them academically in school, who can run sports programs.
    We have a Nation in crisis. We're confusing our kids with 
all these policies that are anti-family and anti-God.
    So, Mr. Owens, I'll yield back, but I just want to thank 
you for your bravery. There's a lot of young boys that look up 
to the Super Bowl champion that sits in these Halls of 
Congress. You continue to fight for the real solutions.
    They're not popular. Trust me. I get bashed. I'll get 
bashed today for just being here. I'm okay with that, because 
the God I serve is much bigger.
    Congressman Owens, thank you so much for this opportunity.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Brewer, for your 
leadership, your vision, and for being a voice in the 
wilderness. Thank you, my friend.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you both very much.
    As I yield to the Chair of the Full Committee, we have just 
passed a One Stop Shop that deals with a lot of those issues. 
Thank you.
    I yield to the Chair of the Full Committee, the 
distinguished gentleman from New York, Mr. Nadler.
    Chair Nadler. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chief Holt, we've just heard testimony from Mr. Brewer that 
the causes of our gun violence problem are a lack of fathers 
and from Professor Lott that there's no effective difference 
between an AR-15 and a single-shot gun.
    Could you comment on this testimony, please?
    Chief Holt. In my experience of law enforcement, I think 
there's a huge difference between an AR-15 assault weapon and a 
nine-millimeter, a .38 revolver.
    I think the key is my officer was killed with an assault 
weapon recently as two months ago while responding to a Detroit 
police assist where a high-power pistol with an extended 
magazine shot an officer and killed him from the balcony of an 
apartment building. He was lured into this trap.
    I think there's something to be said for a strong family 
background. I don't think that is the solution to what we're 
facing right now with gun violence in the United States, and 
particularly in my city.
    Chair Nadler. Thank you very much.
    In other words, this testimony is, with respect to the 
prevention of gun violence, idiotic, and I agree with you on 
that.
    Mr. Heyne, this year we were able to make some progress on 
gun violence with the passage of the Bipartisan Safer 
Communities Act, yet there's still much more to be done to 
prevent gun violence.
    If this legislation gets implemented, how will it make our 
communities safer? What will happen if we don't take additional 
actions to build on the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, such 
as the legislation that passed in this House but not in the 
Senate?
    Mr. Heyne. Yeah, thank you so much, Chair Nadler, for the 
question.
    The Bipartisan Safer Communities Act is a really important 
step, I would say a number of policies and a package that 
undoubtedly is going to save lives. It's not going to solve gun 
violence overnight.
    I would actually mention the fact that the universal 
background check, something that 90 percent of Americans 
support, what would serve as a foundation for all gun laws to 
function, was off the table during that negotiation.
    So, while we were incredibly excited about things like 
addressing the dating partner loophole, the historic funding 
for extreme risk law implementation, funding for community 
violence intervention programs, which addresses a lot of the 
root causes that we're talking about, community investments to 
address the cycles of gun violence, all that stuff is going to 
have tangible impacts in communities, but we do have a lot more 
to do to address gun violence in all its forms. This Committee 
has done an incredible job of putting some of those solutions 
forward.
    Chair Nadler. Thank you.
    Chief Holt, unarmed bystanders disarmed the shooter at Club 
Q in Colorado Springs and law enforcement was on the scene 
within minutes, yet five lives were still lost.
    What does this say about the limitations of law enforcement 
when we allow assault weapons in our communities?
    Chief Holt. I think the issue to respond to that question, 
and I'm going to respond to it as how we train and how we 
respond to something like that.
    Proper training, preparation, resources, you can prevent 
these incidents or allow you to respond to these sorts of 
incidents.
    The incident that happened in Uvalde has been discussed, 
examined, dissected, and results given. I think what we do, 
when you have an active shooter like that with an assault 
weapon, we don't stand by. We go in, with our training and with 
the proper resources, to neutralize that threat and prevent any 
more collateral injuries such as took place there.
    Chair Nadler. Thank you.
    Ms. Melchionno, when you went through this experience, you 
were seven-years old. As you've grown older, there have been 
other school shootings, Parkland, Santa Fe, Oxford High School, 
and Uvalde. Each of these was a mass shooting on a school 
campus, two of them with assault rifles and high fatalities, 
just as you experienced.
    What was it like to hear about these events?
    Ms. Melchionno. It was definitely retraumatizing. The 
parallels between Uvalde really uncovered a lot of trauma that 
I had experienced in the past.
    Growing older with these memories that I experienced on 
December 14, 2012, they're always in my mind. As I grow older, 
processing it over and over again is hard, because you think of 
it in different ways and you understand it in different ways, 
and it makes you question why we keep allowing this in our 
country and we don't take any action.
    Parkland was one of the first times when I really 
questioned why we choose to live like this in our country. We 
know that a lot of these shooters are obtaining these AR-15s 
and their guns legally, and we need to implement change to make 
it harder.
    Chair Nadler. Thank you, and I yield back.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The gentleman yields back.
    As I yield to Mr. Steube for his time, I want to thank all 
the Members that have come to this hearing and recognize the 
gravity of this issue. Thank you.
    Mr. Steube, you are recognized.
    Mr. Steube. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chief Holt, isn't it true that the functionality of a 
semiautomatic handgun is exactly identical to the functionality 
of a semiautomatic rifle?
    Chief Holt. That is true.
    Mr. Steube. So, you would actually agree with Mr. Lott's 
statement that was earlier mischaracterized by the Chair that a 
semiautomatic handgun, regardless of the caliber--.9 mill--we 
don't have to get--we could do that argument for hours--
regardless of the caliber, a semiautomatic handgun operates, 
every time you depress the trigger a round comes out, functions 
exactly identical to a semiautomatic rifle.
    Chief Holt. Well, I don't agree with part. What I don't 
agree with--
    Mr. Steube. All I'm asking is, is a semiautomatic rifle, 
every time you pull the trigger a round comes out, correct?
    Chief Holt. The same as a revolver, yes.
    Mr. Steube. Thank you. So, you agree with the way that Mr. 
Lott characterized that. I've been in elected--
    Chief Holt. No, I don't--
    Mr. Steube. I'm sorry?
    Chief Holt. No, I do not agree with it. I think what he was 
characterizing--
    Mr. Steube. No, a semiautomatic rifle and a semiautomatic 
handgun function exactly the same. Every time you depress the 
trigger, a round comes out of the chamber. Is that correct?
    Chief Holt. As well as a revolver and a single-shot gun.
    Mr. Steube. Thank you.
    So, I've been in elected leadership for 12 years. When I 
first got elected in 2010 to the State House, Sandy Hook 
happens shortly after I was in the State House. Being a former 
military guy who served in a deployed environment and wanted to 
find solutions to problems, I started doing research, like a 
good lawyer does.
    I saw that in Florida at the time, all these shootings that 
were occurring nationwide were happening in gun-free zones, 
especially in schools, where you have those perpetrators who 
want to go in and kill as many defenseless children as possible 
are going to go to a place where they know that people aren't 
armed. At the time in Florida, we didn't have school resource 
officers in every single one of our elementary schools.
    So, I filed a bill that would do away with gun-free zones 
specifically in our schools and develop a policy and a 
program--I actually worked with Sheriff Demings, Val Demings' 
husband, on this with the Sheriffs' Association--where we would 
have certified law enforcement officers with concealed carry 
permits that would go through a specific gun safety, school 
safety course, just like the SROs go through, and put those 
individuals in our school. Former, current military, former, 
current law enforcement, they would go through a training 
course that would be able to respond to these types of 
incidents.
    Because what Mr. Lott's research has shown--and this is 
from his--this is today--94 percent of mass shootings between 
1950-2019 occurred in gun-free zones. That is a fact. Sandy 
Hook was a gun-free zone. Pulse Nightclub was a gun-free zone. 
Parkland was a gun-free zone. The FSU shooting that we had in 
Florida was a gun-free zone. Uvalde was a gun-free zone.
    Regardless, we will never get evil people out of this 
world, and regardless of what tool they're using to accomplish 
the evil they intend on accomplishing, by not having somebody 
there who is properly trained, who is armed to be able to 
respond to these types of atrocities, is what is putting all 
our children in these horrible situations.
    I fought hard to get that change in Florida. I believe if 
that bill would have been passed before Parkland, those kids in 
Parkland would have been saved because that shooter would know 
that if he was going to that school there's going to be armed, 
trained people on the other side that could respond to that.
    So, I want to thank--and I'll yield the remainder of time 
to Mr. Lott to comment specifically on the gun-free zones and 
through acts of Congress of what we've done to make gun-free 
zones a target for these perpetrators, who know that when they 
walk into a school grounds there's not going to be anybody 
there that's going to be able to respond in a timely manner.
    In Florida and in my district, the average response time is 
2-4 minutes, depending on where law enforcement is. We all know 
how quickly the travesties of this evil can occur in such a 
short period of time by not having somebody armed and trained 
and able to respond.
    Mr. Lott, I will yield the remainder of my time to you.
    Mr. Lott. Thank you.
    Look, you can just read the diaries and manifestos that 
these killers leave behind. They make it very clear. They're 
not stupid. Their goal is to go and kill as many people as 
possible. They know if they go to a place where victims can't 
defend themselves, they're going to be able to go and kill more 
people.
    We looked at all school shootings of every type, from an 
accidental discharge all the way up to a mass public school 
shooting, from 2000 on. There are 20 States that have armed 
teachers. It varies, the percentage of schools in different 
States, but you're talking about literally thousands of 
schools.
    Yet in that entire time, there has never been one single 
attack where anybody has been killed or injured during any 
school hours where teachers and staff are able to carry. Every 
single one of the attacks where anybody has been injured or 
killed have occurred in schools where guns are banned.
    Would you rather have a sign in front of the school that 
says ``this school is a gun-free zone'' or would you rather 
have a sign in front of the school that warns potential 
attackers that someone, someone that they can't identify 
beforehand, is going to be able to possibly stop them?
    You know, having one officer at a school in uniform, they 
have an almost impossible job. It's like putting somebody there 
with a neon sign that says ``shoot me first'' if there's going 
to be an attack, because they know if they take out the one 
person in uniform, they're going to have free rein to go after 
other people that are there.
    Just read the manifestos. Read the diaries. These guys go 
in extreme detail into explaining why they pick the targets 
that they do. They're not stupid. Their goal is to get media 
attention, and they know the more people they kill the more 
attention they're going to get.
    Mr. Steube. Thank you for being here.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The gentleman yields back.
    Noted for the record that since the killings in Sandy Hook, 
25,000 children have died by gun violence, which evidence that 
wherever we are they're making schools a combat zone. Armed 
persons will do that.
    Let me yield five minutes to the gentlelady from 
Pennsylvania, Congresswoman Dean. Thank you.
    Ms. Dean. I thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to you and to 
our Chair of the Full Committee for always focusing on the 
issue of gun violence and for wanting to make a difference and 
finally this year making a very small difference.
    I thank more the testifiers in front of us. For those who 
have lost so much, families from Uvalde, Sandy Hook, and 
neighborhoods around this country, I thank you so much.
    Ms. Dean. I always start with the notion of what John Dunn 
said so many centuries ago.
    Don't ask for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.
    It tolls for every single one of us, every time a family 
member is struck down by violence. Why I so value what you have 
said to us, I'm actually going to ask you to reflect back to me 
what you're hearing here today.
    In the face of such loss, in the face of something that is 
manmade and, therefore, could be man-solved, you are hearing 
that the root cause of massacres across this country like no 
other industrialized country suffers is evil. It's mental 
illness. We need more paddles and prayers. There are too many 
single moms raising children.
    Really? Do we have greater evil here? Do we have greater 
mental illness here? Do we struggle with families and holding 
families together and proud mothers and fathers who raise 
children sometimes as single parents? Really?
    We heard testimony of a headless child. We're going to talk 
about paddles and prayers might solve this problem? Where have 
we lost our humanity?
    Early on in this testimony, you heard from the Ranking 
Member. His focus, his worry is that we are trying to 
emasculate the Second Amendment. My, oh my, to deprive a man of 
his male role or identity. May not anyone's masculinity be 
connected to slaughter of children in our country.
    So, I ask you respectfully, please. Please know I respect 
all of you. When you hear this set of arguments, can you 
reflect back to me how we bridge the divide, how we really want 
to work this Congress and next Congress with Members across the 
aisle to find the love and the humanity, to find solutions to 
this manmade problem?
    So, Faith, may I begin with you? When you hear this set of 
arguments, what do you think?
    Ms. Mata. I think it just upsets me because it shouldn't be 
between two parties. It should be the fact that Americans are 
dying every day. Children in America are dying. You're arguing 
over the fact of, well, if we take away this gun, we're taking 
away our Second Amendment laws. That's not the issue. The issue 
is, is your people are dying, you are the leaders, and you 
aren't doing anything about it.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you.
    Dr. Guerrero, what do you think?
    Dr. Guerrero. I think it's disturbing on my end because as 
a pediatrician, you also see the parenting side of these kids 
in your clinic every day. I have plenty of kids that suffer 
from mental illness that end up being in institutions, end up 
as bad kids, that had great parents, both mom and dad, day in 
and day out. The parents are at wit's end, saying, I don't know 
what the hell to do with this kid. It's not that I did anything 
wrong or didn't raise them correctly. What is just it. Right?
    As I mentioned earlier, with the shootings at Pulse and at 
Club Q and El Paso, I want to focus on that on this side. I'm a 
proud gay man. I'm a proud Mexican American. I'm also a proud 
Uvaldian. So, all three of these tragedies angle in at me at 
some root.
    So, don't sit here and tell me it's because this kid wasn't 
raised right or because, they were suicidal, went through 
depression, didn't have a therapist. Yeah, maybe that all has a 
part of it. Every single one of these people, every single one 
of these monsters had access to this type of weapon.
    Ms. Dean. In the remaining time, I thank you.
    Senator Gutierrez, I'm joined here today by my friend, 
Representative Matt Bradford from the Pennsylvania House of 
Representatives. He's our Democratic leader in the House. I 
served with him there. We formed the PA SAFE Caucus after Sandy 
Hook 10-years ago.
    What's your reaction when you hear this ridiculous clash of 
arguments?
    Hon. Gutierrez. Congresswoman, it's outrageous.
    At the end of the day, an 18-year-old accessed a 
militarized weapon on his 18th birthday and again, the next 
day, and then again, the next day. The fact is 18 States have 
age limits.
    You passed a bill in the House with an age limit to 21. In 
the Senate, compromised by a bipartisan bill, stripped that 
out. The fact is, if America saw how this young man accessed 
these weapons, you would be disturbed and disgusted about an 
18-year-old going in to buy these types of weapons. Seventy-
five percent of Republicans want age-limit increase. Your 
constituents want an age-limit increase to 21.
    Jesus Christ, he was a fixer. He wasn't a prayer. There's 
only one time in the Bible he said he needed to pray, and that 
was the day before he was arrested. He said let's pray. The 
fact is he fixed things. He did things. He said let's do 
something. Let's be kind to immigrants. Let's save kids. Let's 
protect kids. He was a doer.
    You're doers. You're fixers. That's what people elected to 
you do, and now it's time to do something, not to do something 
for the moneyed interest. We all know about the money in this 
room, and we know all about the gun lobby in this room.
    That's the truth.
    Ms. Dean. I pray that in this upcoming Congress we will 
find the power to work together to solve this problem because 
97 percent of gun owners want us to solve this problem.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I thank the gentlelady.
    That is the cause and reason of this hearing, and I look 
forward to that work.
    I yield to Judge Gohmert.
    Mr. Gohmert. Thank you.
    I do have great sympathy for the victims, victims' families 
represented here. As a former felony judge, I've seen the worst 
of the worst. Anyway, my heart goes out to you. The issue here 
is what to do about it.
    Mr. Lott, do you have any statistics on what percentage of 
Americans want to see limitations on gun rights?
    Mr. Lott. Yes. Thank you very much.
    A lot of the surveys that have been mentioned so far, I 
think are pretty misleading.
    So, earlier it was mentioned about support for red flag 
laws, for example. If you look at surveys, they'll go and say 
by two to one, Americans support red flag laws. The problem is 
the way the questions are asked in all these things makes a 
huge difference.
    So, for example, for red flag laws, they'll say: Do you 
support judges being able to temporarily take away a person's 
guns who is a danger to themselves or others? Most people think 
that's reasonable. The problem is--
    Mr. Gohmert. Well, actually, most places that's the law.
    Mr. Lott. Right. Yeah, I understand. It's already the law 
even without red flag laws because you have involuntary 
commitment and other types of laws.
    Mr. Gohmert. That's right.
    Mr. Lott. The point is that if you merely tell them two 
things about red flag laws, one, that there's no hearing that 
occurs before the judge takes away the weapons and that there 
are no mental healthcare professionals involved in the process, 
unlike involuntary commitment, you end up going from two to one 
support to almost two to one opposition.
    Take something like--
    Mr. Gohmert. Thank you. I just wanted to touch on that, 
but--
    Mr. Lott. Sure.
    Mr. Gohmert. This is such a critical issue.
    Reverend Brewer, I appreciate your work. I've seen it over 
and over in our prisons in Texas. The least recidivist rates 
occur where there has been Christian mentoring and follow up, 
and it's been amazing. Unfortunately, a lot of places ban that.
    You mentioned about the high percentage of fatherless 
children that are involved in these kinds of violent attacks. 
It goes deeper than that, and I know you agree with me, going 
back to John Adams who said:

        We have no government armed with power capable of contending 
        with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. 
        Avarice, ambition, revenge or gallantry would break the 
        strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a 
        net. Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and 
        religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other.

    That's what it comes down to. More than just 
fatherlessness, we have started teaching children that there's 
no absolute right and wrong. What feels good is probably okay. 
We've got schools that are grooming children to be what our 
current laws say is sexual assault of a child, and it's going 
on publicly.
    Our morality as biblical Judeo-Christian morality has gone 
out the window. So, that is the common thread that I have seen.
    I agree with the people here, but to this extent. If we're 
not going to get back to teaching morality, Judeo-Christian 
principles on which we were founded, as Alexis de Tocqueville 
said, wow, this is amazing. He said in Europe, religion, 
Christianity and freedom, go two different directions. In the 
United States, they're inextricably woven together.
    We've got to get back to teaching there is a right or 
wrong, or I agree with everybody here. We're going have to get 
rid of the Second Amendment. We're going have to get rid of 
freedom of speech. We're going have to get rid of freedom of 
assembly. This Constitution won't work the way we are teaching 
children.
    I give you the rest of my time to elaborate on that.
    Mr. Brewer. Thank you, Mr. Gohmert.
    I mean, I have been working on these issues with my hands 
for a long time. My question is: How many of the folks behind 
that--in Congress, have actually been in the prison actively 
and going to the inner cities actively?
    So, for me to be called, my ideas to be called idiocy and 
to be made a mockery in front of the Nation, I know that I'm 
taking that persecution in the name of Jesus because I hear a 
lot of flesh talk. I don't hear any spirit talk.
    Spirit talk says that we cannot solve things of the flesh 
with the flesh. These things of the spirit must come in. When 
you pull a trigger and mass shoot somebody, you are spiritually 
weak. For us to sit here, as we look and see that 82 percent of 
people that commit mass shootings are fatherless, to not look 
at that as a root cause to me is idiocy.
    So, when we start talking about our kids, look at what's 
happening in our public schools. A lot of our public schools' 
kids are reading three and four grade levels below their 
proficiency. They don't have dads at home to hold them 
accountable.
    So, to say that this doesn't play in to why we have so much 
gun violence in our streets makes no sense. Go into the prisons 
and talk to the people who are pulling the trigger. I am here, 
speaking for them because I serve them every day. The reason, 
the only way that they rehab is through the Word of God. We 
don't teach God in our schools anymore. We don't even teach the 
Ten Commandments. Most kids don't even know the Ten 
Commandments.
    So, they don't have a fear of God. If you don't have a fear 
of God, there is no way that you are going to be able to go 
into a society and promote any type of righteousness. We are 
morally weak as a Nation right now, and I think we put that 
front and center for the American people to see that we have 
certain people in our government that do not want to stand up 
for the Word of God. That is called the Antichrist.
    I yield back, Mr. Gohmert.
    Mr. Gohmert. Thank you.
    My time has expired.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Ladies and gentlemen, we have votes ton 
floor of the House. I know the gentlelady from Pennsylvania was 
poised, but we are at a point now where we think that we will 
start the gentlelady at the opening back after votes.
    Ms. Scanlon. Okay. Whatever you need.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. We would appreciate your graciousness.
    So, at this point in time to the Ranking Member, the 
Committee now stands in recess.
    The Witnesses will return at the call of the Chair, and 
they will be notified by respective staff.
    Again, I thank the Witnesses very much. The hearing is now 
only in recess.
    [Recess.]
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The hearing dealing with Uvalde, the 
search for a bipartisan solution to gun violence, has now come 
to order.
    I will yield at this time to the gentlelady from Florida, 
Ms. Demings.
    The gentlelady is recognized.
    Out of the friendship and collaboration, I will yield to 
the gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Ms. Scanlon, for her time.
    Thank you so very much.
    Ms. Scanlon. Thank you, Chair Jackson Lee.
    Thank you for calling this hearing and to all our Witnesses 
for testifying here today.
    Yesterday we marked the 10th anniversary of the devastating 
shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, and today we reflect 
on the tragedy earlier this year at Robb Elementary School in 
Uvalde that took 21 lives and wounded many others.
    Our children deserve bright futures, not the traumatization 
of active shooter drills or actual active shooters, while 
learning their ABC's. Far too many lives have been cut short by 
senseless gun violence.
    Faith Mata, I, too, am tired of hearing the stories of 
victims, although I'm incredibly grateful to you and your 
parents, to Nicole and her colleagues from Sandy Hook, and all 
the families impacted by school shootings in Uvalde, Parkland, 
Sandy Hook, and Columbine and beyond, in communities of faith, 
in Charleston, Texas, Minnesota, and more, the families of 
shoppers in grocery stores from buffalo to Boulder, and 
relatives of victims of shootings at places of entertainment in 
Orlando, and Colorado, and Peoria, as well as to the advocates 
in my district and communities across America who've 
experienced gun violence, but turned that experience into 
action and advocacy for their communities.
    Today's hearing has been called to explore whether there 
are bipartisan solutions to gun violence. I would welcome 
actionable, real suggestions from our colleagues across the 
aisle based upon actual data and facts. If they don't have real 
solutions, then I think it's important that all Americans know 
that.
    One of the issues we have been devising bipartisan 
solutions is we have to work from a shared set of facts. I 
appreciate the perspective of several of our Witnesses who have 
shared recommendations based upon verifiable data and evidence.
    We know what the problem is, as Dr. Guerrero notes. Guns 
are now a leading cause of death among children in our country, 
not any other country. More and more Americans of all ages have 
become victims of gun violence, including myself. It shouldn't 
surprise anyone that in the country that has more untraceable 
guns and unregulated gun users per capita than any other 
industrialized country in the world also has the highest rate 
of gun violence per
capita.
    Now, at the outset we need to confront the myth that the 
Second Amendment bars any restrictions on the possession or use 
of any guns by any person, a myth perpetuated by the gun 
industry while reaping billions in profits. In fact, the Second 
Amendment is not a suicide packet and, like every other part of 
the Constitution, is subject to qualification in certain 
circumstances.
    What we don't need is pseudoscience or deeply flawed 
research that's been repeatedly debunked over several decades 
as is unfortunately the case with Mr. Lott's research.
    Senator Gutierrez asked: How many children have to be 
murdered before we're willing to ban the chosen weapon of 
school shooters? How many people have to be killed before we 
take reasonable steps to end murder? I would add, prevent 
suicide.
    In the 116th and 117th Congress, my colleagues and I have 
proposed legislation to implement evidence-based solutions to 
prevent gun violence, which are both constitutional and broadly 
popular with Americans including universal background checks, a 
ban on assault-style weapons, extreme risk protection laws and 
safe storage laws. We need to enact those laws.
    One area where I am in agreement with our colleagues is 
that it's important that we enforce the laws that are already 
on the books to the fullest extent possible, although that 
alone is insufficient. Unfortunately, decades of underfunding 
and legislative roadblocks have made it impossible for the 
critical Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms to fulfill 
its duties when it comes to keeping guns out of the wrong 
hands.
    Mr. Heyne, earlier this year, your organization published a 
report entitled, ``Uncovering the Truth about Pennsylvania 
Crime Guns,'' that tracks guns recovered in crimes traced to 
gun dealers in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. One of the 
most striking things in the report is that 90 percent of these 
guns can be traced to a handful of Pennsylvania's gun dealers.
    Can you elaborate a little bit on the findings around these 
numbers and tell us what the problem here is?
    Mr. Heyne. Yeah, absolutely.
    Thanks so much for the question, Congresswoman.
    I couldn't agree with you more. We talk a lot about gun 
violence and solving for gun violence in terms of who's pulled 
the trigger, and what we don't ask enough at the time is: Where 
did the gun come from?
    That Pennsylvania report made it really clear. A more 
jarring statistic is that 50 percent of the guns that were 
recovered in Pennsylvania, of the near 100,000, 50 percent of 
them came from only one percent of Pennsylvania dealers.
    This is a very solvable problem. If we make tactical law 
enforcement investments to go after these individuals, these 
negative and irresponsible dealers, we can have a tangle impact 
on the flow of illegal guns. There are too many communities 
where it's easier to find a firearm than it is to find fresh 
produce, and these are not things that grow on trees.
    So, we have got to enable ATF to do their job and to go 
after these irresponsible and negligent dealers.
    Ms. Scanlon. Thank you.
    Madam Chair, I see that my time has expired.
    I would like to request unanimous consent to insert into 
the record the report we were just discussing, ``Uncovering the 
Truth about Pennsylvania Crime Guns.''
    Is that for unanimous consent?
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Without objection, so ordered.
    Ms. Scanlon. I'd also like to submit for the record a 
November 3, 2022, article from The New Yorker entitled, ``The 
Shoddy Conclusions of the Man Shaping the Gun-Rights Debate. 
John Lott is the most influential pro-gun researcher in the 
country. But his methods and findings have been repeatedly 
debunked.''
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Without objection, so ordered.
    [The information follows:]

                       MS. SCANLON FOR THE RECORD

=======================================================================
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Ms. Scanlon. I yield back.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I am pleased to recognize now the Ranking 
Member of the Full Committee, Mr. Jordan, from Ohio.
    Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I would yield my time to the gentleman from Kentucky.
    Mr. Massie. I thank the gentleman from Ohio.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The gentleman from Kentucky is recognized.
    Mr. Massie. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Mr. Lott, I was looking in your written testimony, the part 
of it that you didn't get to elaborate on in your opening 
statement. I noticed something remarkable, a sentence here that 
says there was no drop in the number of mass public shootings 
with assault weapons during the 1994-2004 so-called assault 
weapons ban.
    Can you elaborate on that? One other thing I want to point 
out, before I turn that over to you is one of the most horrific 
shootings in history was at Columbine, and it happened in 1999, 
five years into these so-called assault weapons ban.
    Can you elaborate on whether mass public shootings went 
down or up? Because today, I've heard several times it's stated 
that the 1994-2004 assault weapons ban worked and is being 
proposed again. So, I think it's important that we get the data 
to the document that the Chair just introduced into the record. 
I want to say you are the only authority that we have here 
today on statistics and data.
    So, if the other side would like to offer some facts or 
statistics and data, I would welcome them to bring a Witness 
that's as knowledgeable as Mr. Lott on this subject at some 
time.
    I ask Mr. Lott to answer the question.
    Mr. Lott. Sure.
    Mr. Massie. Microphone, please.
    Mr. Lott. Just one quick thing. You know, you look around 
the world. People seem to think that this only happens in the 
United States. If you just compare even Western Europe to the 
United States, does anybody know where the two worst mass 
public shootings were? They were in Europe. France in November 
2015 had 130 people killed. Norway about a decade ago had 67 
people killed.
    France, it takes over a year to go through the licensing 
process. It costs thousands of dollars. You have to get two 
psychiatric evaluations to be able to go through. They have 
every law that every State in the United States has, plus more. 
Yet, they've had worse mass public shootings on both total and 
per capita rates.
    Anyway, there are lots of different measures of mass public 
shootings. The only one that people look at who make this claim 
that the number of mass public shootings went down is by Louis 
Klarevas, who's at the Teachers College at Columbia. What he 
does, he has a different measure than anybody else. He looks at 
six or more people killed, rather than the typical four or 
more. Much more importantly, he inconsistently includes cases 
involving robberies or gang fights.
    So, most of the measures, the FBI measure for active 
shooting or for mass public shootings, specifically measures 
public attacks that are not part of some other type of crime 
like a robbery or a gang fight. They're trying to get at those 
cases where the whole point of the attack was simply to go and 
kill or harm other people.
    That's not saying that gang fights over truck turf aren't 
important, but the causes and solutions to going and stopping 
the types of mass public shootings that get people's attention 
in the news media are very different from the types of cases 
that you see that get the news coverage.
    The other thing that he does is he--you think he'd be 
looking at attacks involving assault weapons, but he lumps them 
together with all things.
    Even with his data, all the data shows that if it was a ban 
on assault weapons that was somehow causing a drop to occur, 
then the percentage of attacks involving assault weapons should 
have fallen when you have the ban and then should have gone up 
if it's assault weapons that are driving the drop and then 
driving the increase after the ban sunset.
    In fact, even with his data, what you find, because he 
lumps both assault weapons and other weapons together, even 
with his data, the increase that he claims occurs during the 
1994-2004 period is driven entirely by non-assault weapons 
being used more during that period of time.
    Anyway, it's pretty clear, no matter how you measure this, 
you're going to--in fact, Klarevas was an expert in the 
California assault weapons ban case where I was an expert on 
the other side. The judge ruled that his evidence was 
contradictory and was not acceptable by the court.
    Mr. Massie. One thing also that seems somewhat disingenuous 
about this claim from the other side of the aisle is the number 
of AR-15s, so-called assault weapons or military-style weapons, 
that were in circulation and ownership in the United States 
practically doubled during that period because the 
manufacturers quickly changed the cosmetics. The ban was based 
on cosmetic features of the gun, and so the number of the 
people kept selling.
    I bought an AR-15 between 1994-2004 myself because, in 
fact, they weren't really banned by function, only by style. 
So, I think that deserves further investigation, whether that 
ban worked or not. It did not work.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The gentleman from Kentucky is correct.
    The legislation that we have is updated and modifies the 
distinction between one group versus another group, which is 
why we absolutely need, when I say group of assault weapons, 
why we absolutely need the law to be passed now. This hearing 
is about what the Federal Government can do to assist these 
grieving families who grieve year after year and decade after 
decade.
    I'm pleased to yield now to the gentlelady from Florida, 
Ms. Demings.
    Ms. Demings. Thank you so much, Madam Chair.
    To all our Witnesses, there are no words that can fully 
express how grateful we are to you for being here today to 
discuss this very important issue.
    Here we are again, talking about gun violence in America. 
As Members of Congress, our primary responsibility is the 
safety of the American people. When we think about our own 
children, our own grandchildren, wouldn't we do anything, 
anything at all to protect them?
    Well, our responsibility goes a little further here, 
because we have taken an oath to protect America's children. As 
I hear the discussion, I am just--certainly as a former law 
enforcement officer, I'm just disappointed that we are not 
fulfilling our oath or our promise to protect America's 
children.
    I do have to recognize the presence of NOBLE's Executive 
Director, Dwayne Crawford. It's great to see you and NOBLE 
member, Chief Holt.
    I've heard a lot of stuff. I've heard that we just want to 
take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. That's 
nonsense. I carried one for 27 years. My father was a hunter. I 
grew up with guns.
    This is about keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous 
people, people who walk into a classroom, Faith, and gun down 
innocent children, like your sister.
    To her parents, it's about keeping guns out of the hands of 
dangerous people. If we aren't work doing to do that, as we sit 
here and talk about a lot of different things, if we aren't 
working to do that, we are not doing our job.
    There's been a lot of talk about law enforcement, as there 
should be. I watched the failed response, and we need to get to 
the bottom of it. We do know that things went wrong long before 
the shooter, the 18-year-old, walked into Robb Elementary that 
day, like legislators who have the power to pass laws 
proactively to protect children failed to do that.
    Seatbelt laws don't save everybody, do they? Doggone it, 
they have made a difference.
    We have a responsibility to do better than just throw 
ridiculous rhetoric across the aisle every day. We have this 
moment with people who were there. There's been a lot of talk 
about assault weapons and military-style weapons.
    Doctor, you gave a very vivid testimony about the victims 
and what the weapon did to the victims. I know you're not 
making that up. I served as a law enforcement officer. The 
chance of survival, I've had coworkers shot with the same 
weapons. The chance of survival is about zero, and so there 
seems to be, I hear, defending the weapons. What about the 
children?
    Doctor, please, again, could you talk about what you 
experienced on the scene that day so the American people, those 
who really want to listen and do something about it, can fully 
understand the devastation caused by the weapon that was used?
    Dr. Guerrero. As I've mentioned before, devastating 
injuries to the point of shredding, decapitation, holes in 
chests.
    I'll actually even tell you, since Uvalde's a small 
community, things travel quickly through our community. Medical 
people or other people that were there that happened to see 
what they saw when they walked in, I can explain to you what 
they've mentioned to me as well: Kids with part of their faces 
missing, limbs torn apart. There's a little girl alive today 
still who survived who's missing part of her extremities.
    It's just devastating injuries that no one could possibly 
survive.
    Ms. Demings. Faith, and to Tess's parents, God bless you 
and thank you so much for your advocacy, not just on behalf 
your daughter, but for other children.
    Chief Holt, if you could just talk a little bit about 
NOBLE's position as we talk about gun violence and how we can 
reduce it in the most powerful Nation in the world.
    Mr. Holt. Again, our position is not to eliminate a section 
of the Constitution. We are all for accountable, responsible 
gun ownership. What we're not responsible for are those who 
aren't responsible, who skim the way that you purchase weapons, 
and the use of how they use those weapons.
    We would like to see this great divide come across and we 
unite. Really, the only goal is the safety and the safety of 
kids who are victims of this sort of incident.
    Ms. Demings. Again, thank you all so much very.
    God bless you.
    Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I thank the gentlelady.
    I'd like to yield at this time to the gentleman from 
Kentucky for his time.
    Mr. Massie, you're recognized.
    Mr. Massie. I thank the Chair, and thank you for having 
this hearing.
    I want to set one thing straight. It is true that President 
Biden has expressed his desire to ban all semiautomatic 
weapons, and most of the firearms sold today, and most of the 
firearms owned today are semiautomatic weapons.
    So, I think it's disingenuous to say that you don't want to 
ban guns or take them from people who are law-abiding citizens. 
The President didn't make an exception for law-abiding citizens 
when he said he wanted to ban semiautomatic weapons.
    Mr. Lott, you uttered something that's very disturbing to 
me in your oral testimony. You said that the NICS background 
check results in racially disparate outcomes, that if you're a 
Black male or a Hispanic male, that you would be more likely to 
be denied, a law-abiding male, more likely to be denied the 
purchase of a firearm when you go to purchase it legally from a 
gun store.
    Why do you think that is? What can we do in the next 
Congress to get the data to confirm that or dispel that myth, 
if it is not true?
    Mr. Lott. Yeah, thank you, Congressman.
    It's a very simple point. You'll constantly hear things 
like there are 3.8 million dangerous prohibited people that 
have been stopped from buying guns because of background 
checks. That's simply false. What they should say is that there 
are 3.8 million initial denials, and about 99 percent of those 
are mistakes.
    It's one thing to stop a felon buying a gun. It's another 
thing to stop somebody simply because they have a roughly 
phonetically similar name and similar birth date from being 
able to go and buy a gun.
    The problem is, is that people tend to have names similar 
to others in their racial groups. Hispanics tend to have names 
similar to other Hispanics. Blacks tend to have names similar 
to other Blacks. The problem is that 18 percent of Hispanic 
males have a felony background. Thirty-four percent of Black 
males have a felony background. The problem is for Whites, it's 
six percent. For Asians, it's three percent.
    The problem that creates is that law-abiding, good, Black 
males or Hispanic males are more likely to have their names and 
birth dates confused with somebody who's prohibited because of 
this broad brush of using roughly phonetically similar names 
and birthdays. It causes errors.
    Now you can appeal. The problem is that it's a complicated 
process to appeal those mistakes. It costs about $3,000 on up. 
So, what you've essentially done is good, law-abiding people 
who want to go and protect themselves and their family, poor- 
and middle-income-class people are being prevented from buying 
guns through no fault of their own simply because they have a 
name similar to somebody who's prohibited.
    There's a simple way of fixing this. If private companies 
did background checks in the same way that the Federal 
Government does, they'd be sued out of existence under Federal 
law if they had an error rate that was \1/100\th the error rate 
that the Federal Government has.
    Why not simply require that the Federal Government has to 
meet the same standards for doing backgrounds checks that 
private companies have to meet?
    Now, when I was working in the Department of Justice, I 
tried to go and get the data on the error rates by race, but 
the FBI fought against us getting that at every step of the way 
that was there.
    Mr. Massie. Isn't it true that the data is collected on 
every 4473 form that's filled out at a gun store?
    Mr. Lott. Exactly.
    Mr. Massie. Race.
    Mr. Lott. You know the race. You know the sex of everybody 
there. We know who applied to get it to begin with. We know the 
rejection rate, even at the first stage when the national BATF 
office goes through it.
    About 94 percent of the false-positive cases are dropped at 
the--there are five stages of review. About 94 percent are 
dropped at the first stage of review. There are no lawyers 
involved. They're simply double-checking the paperwork.
    The problem is, they don't go back and tell people about 
the mistakes were there. They just go, ``You're denied,'' and 
that's it. You have to then go and appeal to go and get a 
mistake fixed then at that point.
    Mr. Massie. Can you tell us about the laws that are on the 
books in all 50 States that resemble red flag laws that 
actually help the person who may be a danger to themselves or 
others?
    Mr. Lott. So, they go by different names: Baker Act in 
California--I mean Florida, 5150 in California.
    What happens is if you are concerned that somebody's a 
danger to themselves other others, you go to the police. The 
police will evaluate it. If they have reasonable suspicion, 
they'll take the person in to a psychiatric expert. The 
psychiatric experts can have 24-72 hours, depending on the 
State, to evaluate the person.
    At that point if they think there's a reasonable suspicion, 
there can be an immediate hearing. If the person can't afford a 
lawyer, one is provided for them at that time. Evidence can be 
cross-examined at that point.
    The thing is at that point judges have a broad range of 
options. They could say, look, I'm concerned. If you go and see 
a psychiatric expert, after a week or two weeks, we'll 
reevaluate. They can take away the person's guns. Or in the 
ultimate thing, because about 99 percent of these cases are 
used for suicide concerns with red flag laws, you could 
involuntarily commit the person.
    The problem with red flag laws, there's no psychiatric 
experts, no mental healthcare experts are involved in the 
process. The only thing that the judge sees is a written 
complaint by maybe one person that's there.
    If you really believe somebody's suicidal or you really 
believe somebody's a danger to themselves or others, just 
simply taking away their guns is not a serious solution to the 
problem there. If somebody's really suicidal, you're telling me 
they there are no other ways somebody can go and commit 
suicide? The way these laws are set up is they want you to 
think, if you only take away a person's gun, problem solved, 
there's no problem at that point.
    People can drive a car into a crowded sidewalk that's there 
and go and kill people if they're really a danger to other 
people.
    Mr. Massie. Before I yield back, just to clear that up, 
there are laws on the books in all 50 States that allow 
involuntarily commitment and the taking of guns, but the 
difference between those laws is there's due process--
    Mr. Lott. Right.
    Mr. Massie. --and the person receives treatment, whereas 
red flag laws, you just take the person's gun and leave them 
without treatment and there's no due process.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I could analyze this discourse.
    I simply say 5150, red flag laws that I happen to support, 
but none counter the idea that the person is alive. When 
someone is shot with a gun, a child, an assault weapon, they're 
dead. They can't be brought back.
    I'm happy to yield to the gentlelady from Georgia.
    Ms. McBath. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I'm happy to reel us back into what is really important 
today.
    I want to say thank you to every one of our Witnesses here, 
especially those that have been affected by the scourge of gun 
violence, our family members, our victims. Thank you. Thank 
you. Thank you.
    For our expert Witnesses who have been doing this work for 
so long, I, too, am a gun violence survivor. That is the reason 
why I sit here today before you, because I know how important 
it is that we change the entire culture that every community in 
this country is suffering under with the extremism of gun 
violence in America.
    Sadly today, we are here to address the tragedy in Uvalde. 
We are here to address the 19 children and two teachers 
murdered by an 18-year-old with two assault weapons and 2,000 
rounds of ammunition.
    Yesterday, we commemorated the 10th anniversary of the 
massacre at Sandy Hook, a decade to the day since 20 first 
graders and six teachers were murdered by a 20-year-old who 
fired over 150 bullets from his Bushmaster in under five 
minutes.
    In Sandy Hook, 15 children in Lauren Rousseau's classroom 
were murdered. One, a six-year-old girl, she played dead among 
the other bodies. She was the only one to survive. Covered in 
blood, the first thing that she said to her mother was, 
``Mommy, I'm okay. But all my friends are dead.''
    In Uvalde, an 11-year-old, Miah Cerrillo, saw her friend 
shot next to her. She smeared the blood of her friends all over 
herself and played dead on the floor.
    In that decade, the decade that passed between these two 
murders of our children, no substantial gun safety legislation 
was ever signed into law.
    After first graders were murdered in Sandy Hook, it took a 
decade and the murder of fourth graders in Uvalde before we 
finally were able to pass substantial legislation that helps to 
protect our children and to keep our family safe.
    I promise you. This is only the beginning. It's imperative 
that our efforts to build on these gun safety policies 
continue. We cannot afford to wait another decade, another five 
years, another two years. We cannot afford 10 more years. We 
cannot allow another Uvalde, another Parkland, nor another 
Sandy Hook. America is crying out, demanding that Congress Act 
and that we act now.
    Dr. Guerrero, you are a pediatrician who treated many of 
the children in Uvalde. In the past, you've described both what 
you saw, what you heard, the damage those guns and bullets 
caused to children from just mere feet away.
    Parents, you describe, screaming, crying, and begging for 
their children.
    As someone who has retold the tragedy of losing my own son 
to gun violence, I recognize that this is not an easy thing to 
relive over and over again. Could you please share with the 
American public, as what I have expressed before, your words? 
They were refuted by my Republican colleagues. Can you please 
share with us, describe the scene inside the hospital during 
the aftermath of that terrible day?
    Dr. Guerrero. So, as I arrived at the hospital, there were 
multiple parents outside, some of which recognized me, and 
immediately started screaming their children's names, asking 
for me to find them.
    As I walked into the hallway of the hospital, chaos ensued. 
There was blood on the floor, children that were bloody, 
sitting in chairs in the hallways--one of them was Miah 
Cerrillo, who spoke with us at the last Committee meeting--and 
just utter chaos and just pandemonium. It really seemed like a 
movie that didn't exist.
    By this point, I was just trying to help the parents 
outside find their victim children, and this is when I was 
brought to see these two children that I spoke of earlier that 
were deceased.
    As the day progressed, we just were told to wait, wait for 
14, 15 more kids that were coming, of course, that never came. 
In our hearts we knew that they had passed and that they had 
been killed on this day.
    To this day the community still suffers. We're in pain. 
We're not healed in anyway or any way or fashion, but we know 
that we'll continue to fight so this never happens to anyone 
ever again.
    Ms. McBath. Thank you so very much for your courage, each 
and every one of you, the family members. My heart goes out to 
you because I understand exactly where you are and how you 
feel.
    I promise you that I and my colleagues here on this 
Committee, Democrats, will do everything that we can to protect 
and serve you going forward.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I thank the gentlelady.
    Now, I'm privileged to yield to the Ranking Member of the 
Subcommittee, Mr. Biggs, of Arizona.
    Mr. Biggs. I thank the Chair.
    One of the Witnesses today talked about--and this is kind 
of what the focus has been about is on who pulled the trigger, 
and then where did that gun come from.
    If you're really going to get to the resolution of a 
societal problem that is tragic and horrific, it seems to me 
that you'd want to answer, at least try answering the question 
is: Why did that person undertake to pull the trigger in the 
first place?
    Of course, my colleagues across the aisle refer to that 
question as and theories that might pertain to that as being, I 
think they used the worded idiotic and ridiculous.
    Well, it makes it tough to have a bipartisan solution when 
ad hominem attacks are what you're hiding behind. I don't think 
that's really what any of us should be hiding behind.
    Chief Holt mentioned in his written and oral testimony that 
we should be focusing on--and I can pull it out here. I want to 
say, because I thought it was pretty prescient--comprehensive, 
non-judgmental, pragmatic, and evidence-based approach. That 
is, if we're going have a bipartisan solution, it seems to me 
that's where you would go. You would do it that way.
    That isn't what typically happens in Congress, 
unfortunately. For those of you who've not dealt with Congress 
before, you probably didn't realize that. That's really 
unfortunately the reality.
    So, I want to go to Mr. Brewer. I want you to tell me if 
you've explored, and if you've tried to address the underlying 
causes of violence in society and even the root causes of 
violence of mass shooters.
    Mr. Brewer. Every day. Every day.
    Thank you, Mr. Biggs.
    Every day I face this. We talk about violence; you talk 
about young kids in communities that have it a little bit 
rougher than others and are faced with these type of 
situations. I do it all the time. I go into the juveniles. I 
also go into the prisons.
    So, to talk to a kid or man ask, ``Why did you pull the 
trigger? Why did you do a drive-by shooting?'' and you start to 
really uncover the things that were going on in their lives. In 
my programs, over 85 percent of those men happen not to have a 
father in their lives.
    So, it could be idiocy, whatever you want to call it. 
That's not what the Word of God says. The Word of God says 
defend the fatherless and the widows. If we don't do that, then 
our land will be hit with a curse. We're experiencing that 
curse.
    Mr. Brewer. My brother next to me touched my Bible and said 
that Jesus was a man of action and not prayer.
    Jesus prayed. There are over 25 different verses in the 
Bible of Jesus praying. He was a praying man all the time.
    So, to think that you can go into these communities and 
actually affect the individuals that are pulling the trigger 
without getting to the spiritual battle that we're facing in 
our Nation, that's idiocy, because that doesn't align with the 
Word of God.
    None of us in here are smart enough to come up with any 
solutions, and if we think we are we need to reevaluate that.
    Our solutions come from the Word of God. If we don't want 
to get back and humble ourselves before God and actually look 
at our kids in the eye and make sure that they are sound, with 
strong parents and mentors--every kid is not going to have a 
mom and dad, but the ones that don't, they still deserve 
mentors. They still deserve direction.
    So, why are we not in this panel right now talking about 
real solutions to help the children that are suffering in our 
communities? We have the money. The programs are there.
    When we look at Chicago, just this weekend 21 kids shot at 
each other. That wasn't with an AR-15 or any type of assault 
weapon.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Brewer.
    I'm going to yield my last minute to Burgess Owens, the 
gentleman from Utah.
    Mr. Owens. We have two topics here, my friends. One is the 
Second Amendment rights, and that's going to be a discussion 
for years to come. The other one is, how do we take care of our 
kids today?
    I want you guys to keep this in mind. I'm going to read 
this one more time, because if our goal is to make sure our 
kids are safe, then we can talk about all the other issues that 
adults could deal with.
    How about this? Securing Our Students Act, using billions 
of dollars of unused and already allocated funds from the 
American Rescue Plan that each district, Uvalde, Draper, Leon, 
and Tallahassee, each district would have what they need, their 
customized need, hard infrastructure, innovative software, or 
security personnel.
    Why would anyone vote against that? Take care of our kids. 
Let's get that done with first so every fall we take our kids 
to school, we know they're going to be okay.
    Let's have this debate for years to come if we want to 
about Second Amendments. Our children should be first and not 
be used as hostages, my friends, and that's what's happening 
right now today. We could stop this if we put the right 
legislation, make sure they're safe, period.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
    Madam Chair, I'm not going to extend my time anymore, and 
I'll yield back to you.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I thank the gentleman from Arizona for his 
questioning.
    Now, I'm privileged to yield to the gentlelady from Texas, 
Ms. Escobar.
    Thank you so very much. You are now recognized, Ms. 
Escobar.
    Ms. Escobar. Madam Chair, I want to express my deep 
gratitude to you for your leadership on this Subcommittee and 
for bringing this issue forward and for making sure that we are 
doing everything possible to keep our communities and our 
children safe and that we address the horrible epidemic of gun 
violence in our country.
    I want to thank our Witnesses and extend my heartfelt 
condolences to those who have, unfortunately, had to experience 
mass shootings, who have lost family members to gun violence, 
and who are deeply traumatized by what has happened.
    I want you to know how much I admire your courage and your 
willingness to come forward. I imagine it must be very 
difficult to relive your trauma over and over again. So, thank 
you for doing this and speaking to the American people.
    On August 3, 2019, my own community of El Paso, Texas, was 
targeted and was victim to a mass shooting. This one was a 
White supremacist who targeted my community because of his 
anti-immigrant, anti-Latino fervor. He drove to El Paso to 
slaughter Mexican people and those who looked like immigrants.
    He used an AK-47 to slaughter 23 people. He injured dozens 
more. In my community, just as Dr. Guerrero just stated, we are 
still living with the pain and the trauma, with the scars, the 
emotional, physical, and financial scars.
    This is so frustrating to me to hear my colleagues try to 
talk about other issues. I will work with anyone at any point 
in time on helping our families, on making schools safer. I'm 
all in. We cannot ignore the primary cause of this kind of 
slaughter, the tool that is used, which is the gun.
    Trying to obfuscate and talk about anything other than the 
guns, especially these assault-style weapons, we're never going 
to solve this. We must solve this. We have to. We've got to 
stop this pain that so many communities are living with.
    I will tell you, it was really I would say incredible to 
hear the Ranking Member earlier say that Democrats are trying 
to, quote, ``emasculate the Second Amendment.'' I don't even 
know what that means. It seems like guns are somehow tied to 
male egos. Is that what this is about? Is this why people are 
dying? Is this why children are traumatized? Is this why 
America is such an outlier? This is really, again, deeply 
frustrating.
    I want to get to our Witnesses, and I want to find out, I 
think it's important for the American people to hear about the 
consequences of this kind of inaction.
    Dr. Guerrero, your testimony was powerful and painful, and 
I cannot imagine the trauma that you and other healthcare 
providers are living with.
    Can you tell us how you all are coping together, the 
medical personnel that had to deal with these babies who were 
slaughtered by this madman?
    Dr. Guerrero. I think my fellow colleagues and fellow 
family practitioners in my community, who all see these 
children on a day-to-day basis in our community, are just now 
dealing with the after effects, which include full-blown PTSD 
in the siblings of these victims and the other kids at the 
school who don't want to go to school anymore, whose parents 
are terrified to send them to school, and who now have to face 
all these emotions moving into the holiday season, their first 
Christmas with their loved ones away.
    So, overall, my community still bleeds with an open wound, 
and we continue to try to find our own ways to help each other 
to heal.
    Ms. Escobar. Thank you, Dr. Guerrero.
    I have questions for everyone on the panel. I am out of 
time. I will just say this to Representative Gutierrez.
    Representative Gutierrez, thank you for your courage and 
your voice as well. Your community is going to need a lot of 
resources. In El Paso, many of my constituents are still 
needing surgery. Many of them still need therapy and 
psychiatric help. The costs are not just emotional. The costs 
are not just physical. The costs are financial.
    To all of you in Uvalde, my love to all of you. I keep you 
close in my thoughts and in my prayers.
    Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. We thank the gentlelady for her testimony.
    We are about to recognize Mr. Tiffany, and we will give him 
the respect to access the technology that he has to access to 
prepared.
    Again, as I do that, let me acknowledge and thank Ranking 
Member Biggs, Full Committee Ranking Member Jordan, Full 
Committee Chair Nadler, Mr. Owens, Mr. Massie, Mr. Gohmert, Mr. 
Steube, now Mr. Tiffany, who have joined us in this hearing. 
We're very grateful to you.
    Let me acknowledge the Members who have joined us here, the 
Full Committee Chair, Mr. Nadler, Ms. Demings, Ms. McBath, Ms. 
Scanlon, Ms. Dean, and Ms. Escobar, who have joined us. Mr. 
Lieu was here as well. I want to acknowledge and make sure that 
we have our gratitude expressed on the record for this very 
important hearing.
    We do want to acknowledge that Mr. Cicilline in the House 
led us on the assault weapons ban. I will have some closing 
remarks regarding this hearing to answer the questions of those 
who sacrificed to come here.
    We'll be happy to now yield to the Ranking Member of the 
Subcommittee for unanimous consent.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I referred to these two pieces earlier. One's from the CBS 
Chicago, dated December 5, 2022, ``Chicago Man Shoots, Wounds 
Two of Three Suspects in Carjacking.'' Then November 24, 2022, 
Newsweek.com, ``Woman Defends Herself With Concealed-Carry 
Gun.''
    I'd ask that they be entered into the record.
    [The information follows.]
    
                       MR. BIGGS FOR THE RECORD

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[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Ms. Jackson Lee. While you are doing that, I have some 
additional documents, but I'm going to ask unanimous consent to 
enter into the record the report of the DOJ Inspector General--
I'll refer to that in a minute--on the NICS background check, 
and I'll refer to that in a minute.
    Am I recognizing Mr. Tiffany?
    Mr. Biggs. There he is.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Tiffany is here.
    Mr. Tiffany, it is now your turn. I recognize you for five 
minutes. Thank you.
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    I yield my time to Representative Massie from Kentucky if 
he is there.
    Mr. Massie. I'm here. I appreciate the gentleman from 
Wisconsin.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The gentleman has yielded the time to Mr. 
Massie.
    Mr. Massie, you're recognized.
    Mr. Massie. I want to thank my colleague, Mr. Burgess, for 
recommending actual solutions that could work. As he said, the 
debate on the Second Amendment will continue for as long as 
this country is a country, but we need to protect our kids now.
    Mr. Lott, are there school districts where teachers and 
staff can be armed? Can you talk about that? What are the 
results there? How many victims have we seen in those school 
districts?
    Mr. Lott. There are 20 States that allow teachers and staff 
to carry. You have some States, like Utah and New Hampshire, 
where anybody with a concealed-carry permit who is a teacher or 
staff member is allowed to carry.
    Most other States require a vote either by the school 
district board or by a decision by the principal of the school. 
There is a lot across it. Some States, like Oklahoma and Ohio, 
have had 40 percent of the school districts with it and Texas 
has over 30 percent.
    What you have is, we've had a couple decades of experience 
with these things. There has not, from 2000 on, despite many 
thousands of school districts having armed teachers and staff, 
there has not been one attack where anybody has been wounded or 
killed at any of these schools.
    The other thing is, when you read the legislative debate 
when these laws get passed, there's all these concerns. Well, 
the teacher will leave the gun, or the teacher will get upset 
and accidentally shoot somebody or they'll shoot a bystander or 
something like that.
    You cannot find any of the mistakes that they're concerned 
about. I know of a couple accidental discharges where nobody 
has been hurt, basically, as a result of them. Nobody has been 
shot by a teacher, nobody has gotten a hold of a teacher's gun 
and used it improperly, despite the concern.
    So much of the debate about armed teachers, about things 
that might possibly go wrong, but we have thousands of schools 
and decades of experience to go and look to see whether or not 
those are likely outcomes or not.
    Mr. Massie. I thank you.
    Mr. Tiffany, I know you joined us remotely. Mr. Burgess 
would like some time.
    I'll yield back to you, Mr. Tiffany.
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you very much.
    I yield to Burgess, to Representative Owens from Utah.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you, Mr. Tiffany.
    I just want to first highlight once again how much we 
appreciate you guys being here. This is a conversation we need 
to have. You are the faces, you are the feelings, the empathy 
that we have to make sure we take care of our kids.
    If I can just highlight, let's separate the long-term 
conversation with what is immediate today. Every day we put our 
kids in a school system, our grandkids, we expect to be able to 
pick them up, that they're going to be safe. That should never 
be a question. Our kids should never go to school wondering if 
they're going to be safe or not.
    We can do that today. I just mentioned one of the bills. 
Think about this one, the School Safety Best Practices. It's a 
database, a clearinghouse where all the best practices 
throughout the country are put in one location, and schools, 
law enforcement agencies, institutions of higher learning, and 
public can access it, so everybody doesn't have to go through 
the same experience of getting to be the very best at 
protecting our kids.
    This was turned down by the Democratic Party. What are we 
trying to--I guess the question is, what are we trying to 
accomplish? Do we want to make sure we just focus on the Second 
Amendment, or do we want to take care of our kids first?
    Let's get them off the table. Let's make sure they are not 
being used as hostages. They should be not part of this--we 
should never have this conversation ever again if we take care 
of rule number one, take care of our kids.
    I want to also ask something that my friend Jack Brewer 
said earlier. I grew up in a time when respect was being taught 
in the household, back in the segregated days when my community 
led the country in the growth of the middle class, men 
matriculating from college, men committed to marriage. We had 
more women getting married, Black women getting married than 
White women, because we respected that institution of marriage.
    Yes, if you want to get back to the core problem, let's 
make sure we're getting back to the family unit where these 
kids can be raised right, where they understand discipline and 
respect. If we start taking that off the table, guess what? 
Nothing we do here is going to change, nothing.
    So, I know that's kind of a spiritual thing that some 
people don't like to ever touch. I'm going to tell you 
something, guys. This country was based on Judeo-Christian 
values. The reason we've been the greatest country in the 
history of mankind, the reason I was able to be raised in the 
community I was raised in, a segregated community, and be so 
proud of this country, respect for my name and my family, was 
because of that basic foundation, the Ten Commandments.
    So, let's not take that off the table, because if we do, 
we're not going to win this battle. Meanwhile, let's focus on 
our children first, and then we can have this other debate 
about Second Amendments any time you want to. They should not 
be part of the equation.
    Thank you, Mr. Tiffany.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. We have a Member that is working very hard 
to, again, access technology.
    Ms. Bush? Ms. Bush of Missouri? Ms. Bush?
    I thank the Witnesses for their patience. We are trying to 
be courteous. We appreciate the time that you've spent with us. 
This is very, very important to us. So, if you'd just give us a 
moment, and I will close the hearing with some responses, as 
the prerogative of the Chair.
    Let me take this time to submit into the record articles, a 
partial list, and ask unanimous consent, without objection.
    A partial list of mass shootings in the United States in 
2022, The New York Times; People ``Sandy Hook Survivor, 17, 
Tells Her Story for First Time Since the Tragedy 10 Years Ago: 
`I Thought I Was Going to Die' ''; The Washington Post, ``They 
hoped she was hiding in the Uvalde school. Instead, she was 
gone. In essence, she was dead''; ``The Red City Defund Police 
Problem: Large cities with Democratic mayors spend far more 
money on policing and hire far more police officers than large 
cities with Republican mayors''; ``The Red State Murder 
Problem.''
    I ask unanimous consent for all these articles to be 
submitted into the record. Without objection, so ordered.
    [The information follows:]

                     MS. JACKSON LEE FOR THE RECORD

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[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Massie. I have a unanimous consent request.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Absolutely. Mr. Massie.
    Mr. Massie. This is from Shooting Sport News. It's an 
article called, ``Attack on 2A Researcher, Dr. John Lott, 
Rebuffed By Defenders.'' This is in response to an accusation 
that his data has been debunked, because it hasn't. So, I'd 
like to submit that document.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Without objection, so ordered.
    [The information follows:]

                       MR. MASSIE FOR THE RECORD

=======================================================================

[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Ms. Jackson Lee. Congresswoman Bush. Thank you.
    Congresswoman Bush.
    Ms. Bush. I thank you, Chair, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. We're ready to yield to you now for five 
minutes.
    Ms. Bush. Are you able to--can you hear me?
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Very well. Thank you so much for making 
the effort. Thank you.
    Ms. Bush. Yes. Thank you so much for holding this hearing.
    St. Louis is all too familiar with the daily drumbeat of 
gun violence that claims lives and leaves loved ones with empty 
chairs. Like Newtown, Uvalde, everyone in our community has 
been traumatized in some way by gun violence, especially young 
people.
    Today, I want to lift-up two extraordinary young Black 
women from St. Louis who have borne the cost of gun violence. 
The first is Alexandria Bell, who was killed in a shooting at 
Central Visual and Performing Arts High School in October. 
Alexandria was 15 years old. She loved art. She was an 
energetic and gifted dancer. She was always smiling, and she 
was a ray of sunshine to everyone who knew her.
    The other young woman I want to lift-up is Veronica 
Russell, a senior at CVPA. After the shooting, Veronica 
channeled her trauma and outrage into a brilliant letter 
detailing how Missouri's absurd gun laws are enabling more gun 
deaths. In that letter she wrote, ``The CVPA students are 
beyond hurt, beyond shocked, beyond traumatized.'' She wrote 
that, ``At CVPA, that sanctuary has been taken from us.''
    It is devastating to think about the toll of gun violence 
in our country, especially on young people.
    Dr. Guerrero, as a medical provider who saw firsthand the 
consequences of the Uvalde shooting, what policies do you think 
are needed to address our students' mental health needs, 
whether they survive a school shooting or just are terrified of 
going to school because they believe that they may not come 
home?
    Dr. Guerrero. Well, first and foremost, I think that, 
especially in the rural area like Uvalde is, accessibility, 
having the availability of those services for anyone that wants 
them, could it be even like dialing a number, how we have the 
national hotline now for suicide, something to that extent 
where someone can get the help they need without having to 
search for it. Also, with somehow getting that help without 
having the stigma of reaching out for mental health on both 
ends of the problem.
    Ms. Bush. Thank you.
    Ms. Melchionno, thank you for sharing your story. Can you 
tell us more about what going to school in Newtown has been 
like for you and your classmates since the Sandy Hook shooting?
    Ms. Melchionno. Newtown is an incredibly strong community. 
We're still fighting to this day. Recently, we've been pushing 
for an assault weapons ban, I along with other Members of 
Junior Newtown Action Alliance. We've been calling on Senator 
Schumer to push this bill up to the floor for a vote.
    It's something that's on Gen Z's priority list. We have 
been in the front lines of this issue for all we can remember. 
We know that we're far from a perfect world, that it's not 
realistic for every gun to be taken off the streets, but that 
doesn't mean we can't do anything.
    We just keep sitting here and watching all these shootings, 
and people are dying every day, and it's hard to watch Congress 
stand divided when the majority of Americans want change.
    Ms. Bush. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your story with 
us and thank you for absolutely helping our country.
    Every life lost to gun violence, every moment spent in fear 
is both a moral failure and a policy failure. The answer is not 
more incarceration. We're not going to prosecute our way out of 
this. That approach ends with Black and Brown people being 
unfairly targeted. Eighty-one percent of those convicted on 
Federal gun charges in the Eastern District of Missouri are 
Black.
    So, we understand that's not going to solve--we understand 
it won't solve the gun violence epidemic. It will not save 
lives.
    Ultimately, we need to adopt a public health approach. We 
need, like we just heard, commonsense reforms, like requiring 
universal background checks, raising the age, enacting the red 
flag laws, and banning assault weapons.
    We need to defeat the NRA and its cronies who profit off 
flooding our streets with guns. Unfortunately, right now we are 
at the mercy of an anti-democratic, anti-Black filibuster in 
the Senate and shameless Republicans who fill their campaign 
coffers with NRA blood money.
    The fight goes on, and we will not rest until we have ended 
this crisis in St. Louis and in every other part of this 
country.
    Thank you, Madam Chair. Before I yield back--nevermind. 
Thank you.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Congresswoman Bush is a trained nurse. So, 
I want to thank all the health professionals who, sadly, have 
to confront this issue.
    As I indicated, I will take the prerogative of the Chair to 
bring this hearing to close with a few points of inquiry that I 
wish to do. As well I will then raise the answer to the 
question that we started with: Uvalde, gun violence, and 
seeking bipartisan solutions.
    These Witnesses traveled far. They sacrificed a lot. There 
are persons on this panel who survived violence, who lost loved 
ones to violence, who are suffering, who looked over patients, 
who lived this in Uvalde, and people who have come, who have 
given ideas from their heart.
    Let me first, to Mr. Heyne, the holiday comes, and you will 
not have your mother. I knew James Brady and his wife. They 
spent a lot of time on the Hill. I saw his life post the time 
he was shot. We called him the Bear, if we remember. His 
speech, his abilities compromised. I believe the facts will say 
that he was shot with a .22.
    Mr. Heyne, if in that episode on that day where our 
President survived, if they had been hit point-blank with an 
automatic assault weapon, only on the basis of your familiarity 
through the Brady group, what would you think?
    Mr. Heyne. I think it is clear it would likely be far more 
lethal. That event could have been far more lethal.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Your parent, your mother passed, but your 
father, you said there was a lot of work. If he had been point-
blank by an assault weapon, what might you expect?
    Mr. Heyne. We firmly believe that he would not be with us 
today.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Do you think between 1994-2004, you did 
your work, were assault weapon incidences of mass murder down? 
Would you answer that question, please?
    Mr. Heyne. Absolutely.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Could you expand?
    Mr. Heyne. Yeah. If you look at research, as recent as 
2019, you can see that in that 10-year period there were 
significantly less mass shootings. In fact, as soon as that 
policy sunsetted, assault weapons, because they were marketed 
as such, were flying off the sales racks and, as a result, they 
were used in far more shootings and those shootings were far 
more lethal.
    I think that it has been evident, and I think that you see 
it time and time again, the top 25 mass shootings, the most 
lethal mass shootings in this Nation's history have two things 
predominantly in common: Most were perpetrated with an assault 
weapon and all but one used high-capacity magazines.
    Those things are facts, and it's because these weapons do 
exactly what they were designed to do. They make it very easy 
to kill a lot of people in a short distance, to keep your 
muzzle on target without muzzle creep coming in, over a short 
period of time, which is why the military uses the same 
tactical features.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Chief Holt, you said something that I 
would appreciate your reminding us, and that is you said 
something about law enforcement officers. As you well know, I 
clarified that this is not a statement on the vast numbers of 
law enforcement officers today, yesterday, and tomorrow that 
are on the streets of America.
    You said something about what you are supposed to do when 
shots are fired, and particularly if you might come upon a 
school, maybe a hospital, a church.
    What, Chief Holt, did you say about shots fired?
    Chief Holt. There's two points to this. Police officers or 
law enforcement, we understand that we have an occupational 
hazard when we confront a shooter or a situation. We know going 
into that, we might not come out of that.
    The person who we're going after, the perpetrator or the 
one doing the assault, he's going to suffer that same 
occupational hazard that we have. The victims, whether they're 
children or adults or whoever, they should not have that same 
occupational hazard that we're gathered up to today.
    These are the things that keep me up at night. I want to 
make sure my officers are safe. I want to make sure I'm safe 
where I affect that. Most of all, I want to make sure the 
victim comes out of that.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. So, if I might, forgive me for seeking 
that answer again, as you qualify and want to ensure that 
safety, shots fired, your officers do what?
    Chief Holt. We go in and we neutralize the shooter. That is 
the number one concern. We want to stop it before it gets 
worse.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Would that be 77 minutes before anyone 
moved?
    Chief Holt. Absolutely not. We do not train that way. When 
we arrive, we assess, and we go in. We're assessing it as we go 
in, and we're utilizing our training and the resources that we 
have on hand.
    We are trained when we pull up, I have everything at my 
disposal to go in there and take care of that, whether I'm two 
officers or 20 officers.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. We want your officers to live, but we 
thank them for their sacrifice in that instance if it occurs. 
With the training under your jurisdiction, I can imagine that 
the perpetrator might be down.
    Seventy-seven minutes, no action took place. Do you have a 
comment on that?
    Chief Holt. I think I'll stick with my comments that the 
training that we utilize that's proven to be the most effective 
way, is you don't treat an active shooter like a barricaded 
gunman where you have conversation and de-escalation. You have 
an action that's occurring, and that action requires an 
immediate action right away to stop any further damage.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Ms. Melchionno, you're here. I want 
everybody to know you are a high school student. Do you have 
friends where you engage sometimes in this conversation about 
what happened? You still live in that community.
    Ms. Melchionno. I think it's important to know that 
everyone still lives in fear to this day, because of the little 
action we've taken. Going back to the solutions on this issue, 
coming from a high schooler's point of view, arming teachers 
sounds terrifying.
    Adding more guns to the equation is just accepting that 
we've failed. It's accepting that we've done nothing. It's 
accepting that gun violence is just increasing by the year. We 
can't just keep living like this. DNA kits are not the answer, 
to identify children, you can't even tell who they are because 
of the bullet wound.
    Assault weapons, like I said before, are designed to kill 
the most amount of people in the smallest amount of time. The 
fact that they're legally accessible to civilians is so wrong. 
My friends still live in fear, I still live in fear, and it's 
time that we do something.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Let me finish by Faith.
    When I greeted you, I said, I hope there is hope, that I'm 
glad Tess is there right by you. I thank your parents for being 
here.
    A holiday is coming. You live in Uvalde where, as I see it, 
having been there more than one time, the pain is so deep.
    You made a point about coming together. Can you tell me, is 
it important for you for the assault weapon, the actual--this 
item that this individual took, even with other issues that 
this person may have had, is it important for this weapon of 
death to be banned?
    Ms. Mata. I believe it is. If it's being used multiple 
times to murder children and teachers, then it's the issue.
    I can't even explain to you how it felt looking at my 
sister laying in her coffin. I didn't recognize who I was 
looking at. A little girl who I knew looked like that, she 
didn't look like that anymore. It looked like she had to be 
pieced together again.
    So, if you want that to continue to happen to people in 
America and blame it on other things, then I encourage you to 
do it, but America is never going to be whole again if you 
continue to let this happen.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I close by simply adding the list of 
shootings and to indicate that the two mentioned in France and 
Norway do not even compete with Uvalde, Buffalo, Boulder, 
Dayton, El Paso, Gilroy, Thousand Oaks, Tree of Life, Parkland, 
Sutherland, Las Vegas, Pulse Nightclub, Sandy Hook, movie 
theater in Aurora, and beyond even today.
    I ask unanimous consent for that to be put into the record.
    [The information follows:]

                     MS. JACKSON LEE FOR THE RECORD

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    Ms. Jackson Lee. In addition, since Sandy Hook, 25,000 
children have been killed by a gun--25,000. I don't think we 
can compare universal background checks and other aspects to 
how we would have closed that gap.
    What I will say is that, to Mr. Brewer, I am open, as I 
have been as a Member of this Congress, to the kind of 
supportive elements that will make our community better and 
whole. Nothing is mutually exclusive. I ask you--and it's not a 
question--to as well consider that the weapon of death is an 
assault weapon, among others, and that if I am to yield into 
you that prayer as we respect each other's individualism, I 
know the Mata family prays.
    I know the first time I met Senator Gutierrez, I was in 
church, but we were praying because there were dead children 
and dead teachers in Uvalde. I left the church and went to a 
plaza and hugged crying nine-year-olds, because they were 
familiar with blood being smeared to save their life or 
familiar with their playmates, not even their classmates, were 
dead.
    These families will go into the holiday, the precious 
holiday for Christians of Christmas, where the joys of children 
ring through the house, they will go into the holiday in that 
spirit.
    So, I think the Federal Government is owing to the victims. 
We can't continue to talk about 25,000. We can't continue to 
see why the Kimberly Vaughan Storage Act has not been passed 
yet. She was the youngest who died in Santa Fe.
    Submit that bill into the record, without objection.
    [The information follows:]

                     MS. JACKSON LEE FOR THE RECORD

=======================================================================

[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Ms. Jackson Lee. We cannot not have answers. I say this in 
the humblest manner that I can. I believe we should call for a 
Federal investigation of the actions of law enforcement in 
Uvalde. I will work very hard. I know that there is work being 
done.
    I do believe, as I've made it very clear, Chief Holt, I do 
not speak to the totality. I speak to the actions that occurred 
on that date.
    In addition, I think it is imperative that we have an 
assault weapons ban signed by the President of the United 
States. We are still in session, and the question is, the other 
body can move on that.
    I believe that the great work of Congresswoman McBath, 
there should be a slight modification and ensure that red flag 
laws are Federal laws and that there should be no opting out as 
the bill proceeded in the House. No one can tell me that it 
does not work.
    We have not passed universal background check, and I want 
to accede to the point of racism. It might disparately impact 
Members of my community and the Latino community. I would say 
to you, we will fix that. A universal background check saves 
lives. I would offer to say, in the name of the souls at Mother 
Emanuel Church, if it had been adhered to, the waiting period, 
they might have lived.
    I'd much rather err on the side of saving a life and fight 
racism than to suggest that the universal background check is 
going to impact communities of color negatively. Since I don't 
think the number of 90 percent is discerning, there could not 
be that number if there were not Hispanics and African 
Americans. The voice I heard this morning on the radio that 
said I'm sick and tired of gun violence came from a person of 
color.
    So, I'd like to see that. As I indicated, the Kimberly 
Vaughan gun storage bill, that's a simple thing, before we 
leave.
    Then I'd like to acknowledge Dr. Guerrero and the fact that 
little children are still suffering from their injuries. I want 
to find and make sure, since in our particular State we have no 
expanded Medicaid, that we make sure that the medical costs 
through the municipalities and the public health systems can be 
addressed, the pain and hurt of families, whether it's physical 
or mental.
    This is what I'm putting on the table to ensure that this 
hearing answered the question that it started with: How can we, 
in a bipartisan manner, address the question of gun violence? 
Of course, I indicate, how can we not ban assault weapons?
    Thinking back to the hearing in September with Kimberly 
Rubio, the mother of Alexandria ``Lexi'' Rubio, said, ``I am 
just a mom from a really small town who wants her little girl 
back.'' If she couldn't have that, she wanted the assault 
weapons ban. We could not do that. We haven't even raised the 
age.
    This is, of course, the trying status of our position 
today. Leave not in despair. Leave with hope.
    As I pause, does the Ranking Member care to share a moment? 
You are recognized.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I too thank all the Witnesses for being here. I learned 
something from each one of you for sure.
    I get back to the same question, which is the actual 
premise if you are going to solve this question. Why does 
someone shoot? Why pull the trigger? Why do they do that?
    If we're not willing to have that discussion, which 
apparently, we're not, you'll never resolve this issue, not in 
a country that already has 300 million guns or whatever it is 
out there. We better take care of that question.
    To denigrate data, at the same time saying that's what you 
want to base your decisions on, to me that's just irrational.
    It's difficult, it's difficult, because this is a difficult 
question. Some would say, oh, it's just really easy. It's just 
really easy. It isn't so easy, because if it where, it would 
have been solved. We can't even get people to be willing to 
take a chance and say, how can we solve the root cause?
    Maybe Mr. Brewer's solutions are the way. Maybe you've got 
different solutions. Until you deal with the underlying root 
cause, which is the moral question, called for years in this 
country until about the last 40 years, was virtue. That's what 
we called it, virtue.
    If we're not willing to talk about that anymore, then maybe 
you're right. Maybe, as Mr. Gohmert had said, maybe you have to 
start just taking away rights, because we can't handle them. We 
can't handle self-government. We can't handle self-choice. We 
can't handle it.
    I don't think that's the case. What I do think, however, is 
if we're going to solve this problem, you better not just ask 
who pulled the trigger and where the gun came from. You better 
start asking why the shooter pulled the trigger and why they 
chose the targets they chose. If you won't talk about those 
things, I'm sorry, I am convinced that we will never get to the 
bottom of this problem.
    I think Mr. Owens, his legislation that he put forward was 
a rational attempt to solve the problems that you all were 
talking about, that we've been talking about. He couldn't get 
that thing to move here. That's unfortunate.
    I think we're going to be back here talking about this 
again and again. I hope it's not because we've had another 
horrific and tragic incident like Uvalde.
    With that, Madam Chair, there's more to say, but I will 
yield.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Ranking Member, I just want to say to 
you and hopefully just solidify why we're here is that I extend 
my hand to you. My remarks said that I am a person of faith, as 
I know many Members who express it publicly. Others do not 
maybe. That is their privilege in this Nation.
    As I do this, I say to you, as I consider Mr. Brewer's 
words as sincere to cure some of those elements, I've given you 
a list for this Congress, this Administration. Ban the assault 
weapons, to make the Federal--make the laws that are red flag 
Federal laws, to pass a legitimate storage bill, and to ensure 
that these broken people have the care that they need from 
Sandy Hook to Uvalde and in between.
    I might add, because of the words of Chief Holt, to make 
sure that there is a sufficient training of our officers to 
know the policy has changed. When you hear shooting, you go in. 
You isolate the killer. That's why I've called for a Federal 
investigation, so the Nation never experiences 77 minutes ever 
again.
    I conclude now.
    [Audio recording played.]
    Ms. Jackson Lee. ``There's somebody banging at my school.'' 
Obviously, a child's voice. It concludes by saying, ``I'm so 
scared.''
    [Audio recording played.]
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The child is advising as he is calling, he 
is in a room full of victims, and he is with victims at this 
moment. You can imagine what the victims look like.
    [Audio recording played.]
    Ms. Jackson Lee. ``Can you tell the police to come to my 
room?''
    ``I've already told them to go to the room. We are trying 
to get someone to you.''
    To the families, to the Witnesses, for their sacrifice, 
this hearing that came out of your courage to stop the 
bloodshed and to find a bipartisan solution to the horrors of 
gun violence and the assault weapons at this time is now 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:20 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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