[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]






 
               AN ENDURING LEGACY: THE ROLE OF FINANCIAL


                 INSTITUTIONS IN THE HORRORS OF SLAVERY


                  AND THE NEED FOR ATONEMENT, PART II

=======================================================================

                             HYBRID HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
                           AND INVESTIGATIONS

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                            DECEMBER 7, 2022

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services
       
       

                           Serial No. 117-107
                           
                           
                           
  [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                 
  
  
                        ______
   
                U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
50-160PDF          WASHINGTON : 2023
 
  
  
  
                           

                 HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

                 MAXINE WATERS, California, Chairwoman

CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York         PATRICK McHENRY, North Carolina, 
NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York             Ranking Member
BRAD SHERMAN, California             FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York           BILL POSEY, Florida
DAVID SCOTT, Georgia                 BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
AL GREEN, Texas                      BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan
EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri            ANN WAGNER, Missouri
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado              ANDY BARR, Kentucky
JIM A. HIMES, Connecticut            ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
BILL FOSTER, Illinois                FRENCH HILL, Arkansas
JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio                   TOM EMMER, Minnesota
JUAN VARGAS, California              LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey          BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas              ALEXANDER X. MOONEY, West Virginia
AL LAWSON, Florida                   WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio
MICHAEL SAN NICOLAS, Guam            TED BUDD, North Carolina
CINDY AXNE, Iowa                     TREY HOLLINGSWORTH, Indiana
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois                ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts       JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
RITCHIE TORRES, New York             BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts      LANCE GOODEN, Texas
ALMA ADAMS, North Carolina           WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina
RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan              VAN TAYLOR, Texas
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania         PETE SESSIONS, Texas
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, New York   RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina
JESUS ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas
NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, Massachusetts

                   Charla Ouertatani, Staff Director
              Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations

                        AL GREEN, Texas Chairman

EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri            TOM EMMER, Minnesota, Ranking 
ALMA ADAMS, North Carolina               Member
RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan              BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia
JESUS ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois      ALEXANDER X. MOONEY, West Virginia
SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas                 WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina, 
NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia, Vice           Vice Ranking Member
    Chair                            RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina
    
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hearing held on:
    December 7, 2022.............................................     1
Appendix:
    December 7, 2022.............................................    27

                               WITNESSES
                      Wednesday, December 7, 2022

Darity, William A., Jr., Samuel DuBois Cook Professor of Public 
  Policy, African and African American Studies, Economics, and 
  Business, Duke University......................................     4
Federman, Sarah, Assistant Professor of Conflict Resolution, 
  University of San Diego........................................    12
Francis, Dania V., Assistant Professor of Economics, University 
  of Massachusetts Boston........................................     8
Roberts, Lily, Managing Director, Poverty to Prosperity, Center 
  for American Progress..........................................     6
Rockman, Seth, Associate Professor of History, Brown University..    10

                                APPENDIX

Prepared statements:
    Darity, William A., Jr.......................................    28
    Federman, Sarah..............................................    32
    Francis, Dania V.............................................    37
    Roberts, Lily................................................    40
    Rockman, Seth................................................    47

              Additional Material Submitted for the Record

Emmer, Hon. Tom:
    Memo to Republican Members of the Financial Services 
      Committee from Financial Services Committee Minority Staff, 
      dated December 7, 2022.....................................    52


                    AN ENDURING LEGACY: THE ROLE OF

                     FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS IN THE

                       HORRORS OF SLAVERY AND THE

                      NEED FOR ATONEMENT, PART II

                              ----------                              


                      Wednesday, December 7, 2022

             U.S. House of Representatives,
                          Subcommittee on Oversight
                                and Investigations,
                           Committee on Financial Services,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in 
room 2128, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Al Green 
[chairman of the subcommittee] presiding.
    Members present: Representatives Green, Tlaib, Garcia of 
Illinois, Garcia of Texas, Williams of Georgia; Mooney and 
Wagner.
    Ex officio present: Representative Waters.
    Also present: Representative Garcia of California.
    Chairman Green. Thank you, friends.
    The hearing will now come to order.
    Today's hearing is entitled, ``An Enduring Legacy: The Role 
of Financial Institutions in the Horrors of Slavery and the 
Need for Atonement, Part II.''
    Slavery is our nation's original sin and one of the most 
horrific crimes ever committed against humanity. It was an era 
in infamy spawned by centuries of societal evil. It was 
characterized by kidnapping, rape, murder, enslavement of 
babies, denial of education, and forced labor.
    It is my honor to convene this historic consequential 
second hearing to continue the examination of the role that 
financial institutions played in the perpetuation of this 
horrific crime against humanity and of the need for atonement.
    In June of this year, Full Committee Chairwoman Maxine 
Waters and I, together with Subcommittee Chairs Sherman, 
Cleaver, Perlmutter, Himes, Beatty, Foster, and Lynch sent 
inquiries to the 10 largest U.S. banks and the 10 largest U.S. 
insurance companies requesting information about their 
historical connections to slavery.
    While a number of institutions had researched their 
history, and provided the committee with findings, many of them 
had not, and certain of those had no intentions of doing so.
    Many of our financial institutions have known connections 
to slavery and have profited enormously from centuries of 
economic prosperity that was built on the backs of enslaved 
people.
    In today's dollars, these institutions have a collected 
value in the trillions. Today, we will examine the actual 
valuation of slave labor and its impacts on the U.S. economy, 
and how the exploitation of enslaved people caused the U.S. 
economy to prosper while severely disadvantaging the 
descendants of enslaved people throughout generations.
    Our institutions that profited [inaudible] for this history 
will also be examined. Ours is a great nation that will be a 
greater nation when we atone for our seminal sin, the crime 
against humanity known as slavery.
    And in the course of today's hearing, I will examine one 
other aspect of it, which is something that I call, ``a perfect 
victim.''
    I will now yield to the gentlelady from Missouri, my 
friend, Mrs. Wagner, for 5 minutes for her opening statement.
    Mrs. Wagner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And, again, I want to thank our witnesses for taking the 
time to testify before the subcommittee today. While I 
understand this subcommittee has held hearings on this issue, I 
would also like to highlight an issue that is affecting 
minority communities in the present, and that is inflation.
    Right now, the cost of goods is rising at a faster pace 
than the rate of wage growth, and people are being forced to 
put a larger portion of their paychecks towards necessities to 
make ends meet. Studies show that inflation is 
disproportionately more difficult to bear for lower-income and 
minority households.
    Last week, during our Full Committee hearing on the ties 
between housing and inflation, we saw that many households 
throughout the country are limited by rent, by home buying, or 
by home buying power.
    In many ways, the focus is on how our history has impacted 
the racial wealth gap and how Congress can help reduce burdens 
placed on lower-income and minority communities. This cannot be 
achieved as a one-size-fits-all approach.
    As we have seen in the response to the Majority's June 6th 
letter to the nation's top 10 banks and insurance companies, 
many respondents have implemented plans to address racial 
equity throughout the communities that they serve. This is a 
complex issue and one we must take very seriously so that all 
Americans can achieve economic prosperity.
    When we have seen instances of racial wealth gap, the 
promotion of strong and consistent economic growth has helped 
to reduce the gap by enhancing Americans' purchasing power, and 
ensuring that government intervention doesn't increase the gap, 
while attempting to find a solution.
    In the 8 months since that first hearing, one aspect of the 
economy that continues to disproportionately and negatively 
affect underserved and minority communities throughout this 
country is a continued high inflation rate. At the time of the 
first hearing, the Consumer Price Index, or CPI, reported that 
in February, inflation rose to a rate of 7.9 percent.
    In the months following, Americans were faced with a summer 
of rising costs and consistent inflation that peaked at 9.1 
percent in June and remained well above 8 percent until 
October.
    Today, the Consumer Price Index still stands at a crippling 
7.7 percent. More recently, the Farm Bureau estimated that 
America's families spent 20 percent more just a couple of weeks 
ago on Thanksgiving dinners than they did last year.
    Underserved, minority, rural, and low- and moderate-income 
communities across the country are facing the brunt of this 
inflation and are using more and more of their paychecks on 
critical necessities and becoming less able to direct their 
income toward creating a secure financial future.
    In June, the New York Fed issued a report which confirmed 
that inflation disproportionately impacts Black and Hispanic 
Americans more than any other communities. Individuals who have 
lower incomes and historically have been able to build wealth 
do not have the same safety net as individuals with higher 
incomes or substantial savings.
    This makes combating the negative effects of inflation that 
much harder because these factors, among others, inflation, 
will do nothing more than continue to increase the racial 
wealth gap.
    As Americans continue to head to the grocery stores, the 
gas pumps, and the department stores during the upcoming 
Christmas season, they will see that their purchasing power is 
much less than it was. Congress needs to take immediate action 
to curtail this inflation and let these communities know we are 
focused on building a strong economy in which they can thrive.
    Fixing supply chains, supporting domestic energy 
production, and stopping reckless government spending can be a 
positive start to the deflationary effects that these families 
so desperately need.
    I thank the chairman, and I yield back the balance of my 
time.
    Chairman Green. The gentlelady yields back.
    It is now my honor to recognize the Chair of the full 
Financial Services Committee, the gentlewoman from California, 
Chairwoman Maxine Waters, for 1 minute.
    Chairwoman Waters. Thank you, Chairman Green.
    At your previous hearing on this issue, we discussed the 
significant role slavery played in building up the U.S. economy 
and the financial services industry and fueling our nation's 
wealth.
    Large banks and insurance companies have profited from this 
unjust economic legacy, yet the debt to the descendants of 
enslaved people remains unsettled. The results from the 
committee's inquiry into some of the largest banks and 
insurance companies demonstrate that more work needs to be done 
to ensure that the damages resulting from slavery have been 
remediated and the racial wealth divide addressed.
    Quite simply, public apologies and acknowledgements are not 
enough. I look forward to exploring solutions that address this 
history of exploitation.
    And I yield back. Thank you.
    Chairman Green. The gentlelady yields back.
    It is now my privilege to recognize the Vice Chair of the 
subcommittee, the gentlewoman from Georgia, Ms. Williams, for 1 
minute.
    Ms. Williams of Georgia. Good morning, and thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    It is our responsibility to end this series of hearings 
with not just understanding, but, as Chairwoman Waters said, 
also a plan of action. Where do we start? I think by passing my 
abolition amendment, which will end an exception in the 13th 
Amendment that still allows slavery as punishment for a crime.
    This issue will sound familiar to the bipartisan majority 
of members of this subcommittee who have cosponsored my bill. 
It will sound familiar to the 76 percent of Alabamians, 56 
percent of Oregonians, 80 percent of Tennesseans, and 89 
percent of Vermonters who voted in November to abolish this 
same exception in their State constitutions.
    Even with 191 bipartisan cosponsors on my Federal bill, we 
can't get it done alone. As the financial industry thinks about 
atonement, joining our push to eliminate this exception is a 
no-brainer. These are the types of issues where we need our 
industry's voice and support. Let's walk away today identifying 
as many of these solutions as we can. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And I yield back.
    Chairman Green. The gentlelady yields back.
    Today, we welcome the testimony of our distinguished 
witnesses: William A. Darity, Jr., a professor of public policy 
at Duke University; Dania V. Francis, an assistant professor of 
economics at the University of Massachusetts Boston; Lily 
Roberts, the managing director of Poverty to Prosperity at the 
Center for American Progress; Seth Rockman, an associate 
professor of history at Brown University; and Sarah Federman, 
an assistant professor of conflict resolution at the University 
of San Diego.
    Witnesses are reminded that their oral testimony will be 
limited to 5 minutes. You should be able to see a timer that 
will indicate how much time you have left. I would ask that you 
be mindful of the timer so that we can be respectful of both 
the witnesses' and the committee members' time.
    And without objection, your written statements will be made 
a part of the record.
    Dr. Darity, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give an 
oral presentation of your testimony. You have 5 minutes, sir.

    STATEMENT OF WILLIAM A. DARITY, JR., SAMUEL DUBOIS COOK 
   PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC POLICY, AFRICAN AND AFRICAN AMERICAN 
       STUDIES, ECONOMICS, AND BUSINESS, DUKE UNIVERSITY

    Mr. Darity. Thank you, Chairman Green.
    I am William Darity, Jr., the Samuel DuBois Cook Professor 
of Public Policy, African and African American Studies, 
Economics, and Business at Duke University. I am a specialist 
in stratification economics, a field that examines the sources 
and consequences of disparities between racial, ethnic, caste, 
and gender groups. I would like to examine the intimate 
connections between slavery, the financial sector, and the 
emergence of the Black/White wealth gap.
    Mehrsa Baradaran has written, ``Slavery modernized credit 
markets, creating complex forms of new financial instruments 
and trade networks through which slaves could be mortgaged, 
exchanged, and used as leverage to purchase more slaves. In 
highly-profitable, speculation-based markets, many White men 
built fortunes trading in slave-backed securities. As is true 
of property ownership in any era, those who held slaves had the 
ability to grow exponentially richer because they could use 
their property to create more wealth.''
    Her incisive comment neglects the wider benefits of slavery 
to Whites in both the North and the South. Non-slaveowners in 
the South could earn decent incomes by functioning as managers 
of the enslaved workforce, by selling products to planters, or 
by policing for the system.
    Northern White industrialists in the textile industry were 
directly dependent upon a key input: slave-grown cotton. The 
fortunes of New England's most-prominent families were 
frequently linked to the slave trade and to the shipping 
industry that was allied with it.
    In contrast, the enslaved were denied the opportunity to 
acquire assets, to sell their labor for hire, nor were they 
able to reap the monetary benefits of any technical innovations 
or other products they designed. Slavery was the foundation of 
today's huge disparity in net worth between Black and White 
Americans.
    Estimates from the Federal Reserve in 2019 set the average 
difference in Black and White household net worth at $840,000, 
a figure sufficiently large that it would take the typical 
Black household 14 consecutive years of saving 100 percent of 
their income to bridge the gap.
    In fact, if generous donors created a fund to eliminate the 
racial wealth gap by contributing $1 billion monthly, it would 
take a millennium to reach $14 trillion. The combined budgets 
of all State and local governments used to meet all of their 
obligations amount to less than $5 trillion, but it would 
require $14 trillion to close the disparity for approximately 
40 million Black American descendants of persons enslaved in 
the United States.
    Financial institutions were key supporters and 
beneficiaries of American slavery. The full scope of creditor-
debtor relationships interlocked with the slave plantation 
system has yet to be documented adequately. For the record, 
details are needed about which organizations financed the New 
England textile industry, which bank or banks had Brooks 
Brothers, producers of plantation wear for both the enslaved 
and the enslavers, as a client, and who were the lenders to the 
Southern planters themselves. This will require thick archival 
research that has yet to be undertaken.
    Several existing major insurance companies participated 
significantly in providing slave owners with contracts to 
protect them from financial loss in the event of death or 
damage of their human property, particularly, their highly-
skilled property. These companies include New York Life, Aetna, 
Baltimore Life, the Southern Mutual Insurance Company, the 
Loews Corporation, and AIG.
    JPMorgan Chase subsidiaries, the Citizens Bank and Canal 
Bank in Louisiana, became slave owners after their slave-
holding clients defaulted on loans.
    Citibank, Wells Fargo, and Bank of America's predecessors 
all participated and gained from lending to slaveholders and, 
also as a consequence of loan defaults, became slave owners.
    In the aftermath of the Civil War, the nation made a 
promise to the formerly-enslaved of 40-acre land grants as 
restitution for their years of bondage. The promise was not 
kept, and the American Freedmen received no land.
    In contrast, 1.5 million White families were granted 160-
acre land grants in the Western territories as the nation's 
colonial settler project was completed. Homestead Act patents 
have benefits that resonate for at least 45 million living 
White Americans. Eastern creditors supported and benefited from 
the economic chain reaction of steady growth in the West that 
built new towns and produced new States while making the basis 
for the post-slavery racial wealth gap.
    During the course of approximately 100 White terrorist 
assaults on Black communities from the Civil War to the 1940s, 
Black lives were taken and Black-owned property was seized or 
destroyed by the White mobsters. Black property owners who 
lived through the massacres rarely received any form of 
compensation.
    An estimated present value of $611 million of Black-owned 
property was lost during the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre. What can 
best be described as a Negro clause in the policies gave 
insurance companies the basis for denying the massacre victims' 
claims.
    The insurance companies fell back on an exclusionary clause 
which said that insurers would not be held liable for loss 
caused directly or indirectly by invasion, insurrection, riot, 
civil or commotion, or military or usurped power.
    Christopher Messer, a sociologist at Colorado State 
University, says the clause was inserted in contracts with 
Black property owners intentionally given the fact that, by the 
early 1900s, insurance companies were well aware of the high 
potential for White mob violence directed against prosperous 
Black communities.
    Insurance companies would not describe the assaults as 
massacres, but instead as riots, implying greater neutrality in 
the conflict or Black responsibility for the destruction.
    Financial institutions--
    Chairman Green. Dr. Darity? I am going to ask that you 
suspend, and we will have to move on, but you will be given an 
opportunity to say more when we ask questions.
    Mr. Darity. Yes, sir.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Darity can be found on page 
28 of the appendix.]
    Chairman Green. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Roberts for 5 
minutes to give an oral presentation of her testimony.

   STATEMENT OF LILY ROBERTS, MANAGING DIRECTOR, POVERTY TO 
            PROSPERITY, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS

    Ms. Roberts. Thank you for the invitation to testify today, 
Chairman Green, Full Committee Chairwoman Waters, and 
distinguished members of the subcommittee.
    Economic systems that developed in the immediate wake of 
slavery continue to shape how people experience the labor 
market, the financial system, and their own economic precarity 
today. For example, in the United States in the 1870s, tipping 
became an entrenched system of shifting cost burdens from 
employers to customers, with particular prominence in 
industries that employed formerly-enslaved people, including 
restaurant, hospitality, and transportation work. Tipping was 
codified by 1938's Fair Labor Standards Act, which totally 
exempted those who received tips from any Federal minimum wage 
law.
    Only in 1966 were employers required to pay any base wage 
to their employees who received tips. The minimum wage for 
tipped workers has been stuck at $2.13 an hour since 1991, 
losing more than half its value to inflation over the past 30 
years. While Federal law dictates that if a tipped employee 
makes less than the regular minimum wage, the employer must 
make up the difference, this system is rife with abuse.
    More than 17 percent of low-wage workers report being paid 
less than the legal minimum wage, with $15 billion in annual 
stolen wages.
    Women represent two-thirds of the tipped workforce. Just 
under half of workers in tipped industries are people of color, 
while the total labor force is only 37-percent workers of 
color. Employees are subject to the approval of the customer, 
not their employer, a relationship in which just and fair 
treatment is less governed by antidiscrimination and 
antiharassment laws.
    These workers are subjected to harassment and demands on 
their behavior in exchange for their financial security. One 
study showed that female tipped workers in States where the 
subminimum wage is $2.13 experienced sexual harassment twice as 
often as workers in States where tipped workers receive tips on 
top of the regular minimum wage.
    Lately, 76 percent of Black tipped workers said they were 
financially penalized by customers for trying to enforce social 
distancing and mask mandates, compared to 62 percent of all 
tipped workers. Meanwhile, in spring 2020, more than 40 percent 
of tipped workers were rejected by their State's unemployment 
insurance agency for having earned too little to qualify for 
unemployment insurance.
    Not only are Black workers earning less than their White 
counterparts, it costs them more to access and save the money 
they have earned. This, too, is grounded in history. The 
Freedman's Savings and Trust Company chartered by Congress in 
1865 was intended to provide a savings institution for newly-
freed enslaved people and their descendants.
    After several years of deposits, mismanagement and fraud 
led to the bank's collapse. While most people had already 
withdrawn their deposits and lost access to interest and 
dividends during public uncertainty about the bank's fate, the 
more than 61,000 remaining depositors, many of them recently-
freed people, lost the equivalent of nearly $81 million.
    Although the failure pre-dated Federal Deposit Insurance, 
contemporary advertisements and records indicate that bank 
representatives led potential depositors to believe that their 
account would be backed by the Federal Government and thus 
immune from risk.
    Depositors lost significant assets, and many Black families 
and communities lost faith in financial institutions, with good 
reason. It is unlikely that the Freedman's Bank disaster is the 
driver of anyone's personal judgment of the trustworthiness of 
modern-day financial institutions, but the disaster, and its 
lack of significant consequences for those who contributed to 
it, demonstrate a systemic exclusion of Black Americans from 
the financial system and of a cultural willingness to accept 
the destruction of assets and wealth that is accumulated by the 
Black community.
    Just before the pandemic, Black Americans represented 37 
percent of the unbanked population, meaning they have no 
savings or checking account. They represented 23 percent of the 
underbanked population, meaning that while they have a bank 
account, they primarily rely on fringe banking options such as 
check cashers.
    This has consequences not just for wealth-building, but for 
the implementation of the public policy crafted by Congress.
    When the pandemic hit, people who were unbanked had to wait 
months for paper checks to arrive in CARES Act-funded economic 
impact payments, unlike those who got much faster relief 
through direct deposit. Lack of financial access and lower 
wages, both of which have roots in the legacy of slavery, 
compounds to make wealth-building harder for Black Americans.
    By removing barriers to mainstream financial services, 
constraining the ability of predatory actors to strip wealth 
out of Black communities, eliminating wage disparities, and 
redressing past wrongs, Federal policymakers can make effective 
changes that could help close the Black/White wealth gap.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Roberts can be found on page 
40 of the appendix.]
    Chairman Green. Thank you. Dr. Francis, you are now 
recognized for 5 minutes to give an oral presentation of your 
testimony.

     STATEMENT OF DANIA V. FRANCIS, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF 
         ECONOMICS, UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS BOSTON

    Ms. Francis. Good morning, Chairman Green, Full Committee 
Chairwoman Waters, and members of the subcommittee.
    My name is Dania Francis, and I am an assistant professor 
of economics at the University of Massachusetts Boston. I am 
honored to have been asked to address the subcommittee on this 
important issue. I have been studying the economics of 
reparations for Black Americans for over 20 years, and during 
my career, I have also conducted extensive research on racial 
economic disparities, particularly the enduring effects of 
racial wealth gaps.
    In my testimony, I will address the lasting economic harms 
that slavery had on descendants of the formerly-enslaved.
    From the date of emancipation, Black households were at a 
significant disadvantage with regards to wealth accumulation. 
While the relatively small share of Black Americans who were 
free prior to the Civil War had accumulated some wealth and 
property, the vast majority of Black Americans were formerly 
enslaved with virtually no property or wealth at the time of 
emancipation.
    A team of economists that included Ellora Derenoncourt of 
Princeton University constructed a continuous series of White-
to-Black wealth ratios in the U.S. from 1860 to 2020, compiled 
from multiple historical and contemporary sources. 
Derenoncourt's estimates suggest that in 1860, 5 years prior to 
emancipation, Black Americans owned 2 cents for every dollar of 
White wealth.
    In 1870, 5 years after emancipation, the figure increased 
to a little over 4 cents for every dollar. However, the gap in 
wealth in emancipation was so large that simulations suggest 
that even if Black households had the same capital gains and 
savings rates as White households from 1870 onward, White 
households would still have 3 times the wealth as Black 
households today.
    Why do these racial wealth disparities matter? Wages and 
income impact a family's ability to meet day-to-day 
expenditures, and can feed into a family's ability to 
accumulate wealth through savings and investment of income.
    Wealth, however, provides additional benefits beyond those 
provided by stable wages and income. Having wealth can provide 
a protective safety net, helping families weather economic 
shocks such as unexpected unemployment or an inability to work 
due to adverse health events.
    Having wealth as a protective safety net may also reduce 
stress and anxiety and improve health outcomes. Wealth also 
provides access to opportunity. Households with greater wealth 
are better able to afford homes in neighborhoods with better 
schools, lower crime, and fewer environmental and health 
stressors.
    The risks associated with entrepreneurship can be less 
costly for higher-wealth individuals who have more of a safety 
net to fall back on should their businesses not succeed. In 
that sense, wealth provides greater freedom to pursue self-
actualization. Thus, wealth provides access to education, 
provides security to take career risks, and provides seed money 
for creating small businesses that can eventually grow into big 
businesses.
    All of these things are instrumental in building future 
wealth. In this way, differential access to wealth leads to 
differential access to education, entrepreneurship, and other 
wealth-building activities.
    If we ignore the fact that there are racial wealth gaps, we 
ignore an important root cause of other societal gaps such as 
racial achievement gaps, income gaps, health gaps, et cetera.
    Barriers to access to wealth and opportunity are not just 
in our past; they are ongoing. Today, they may take the form of 
exclusionary zoning policies, for example. If you want to 
exclude Black families from a neighborhood today, you don't 
have to engage in blatant discrimination. You can instead pass 
a local zoning ordinance that requires all residential plots to 
be at least 1.5 acres or to be single-family dwellings.
    This has the effect of pricing many Black families out of 
these neighborhoods because they don't have the wealth 
endowment necessary to afford properties carrying those 
restrictions. In a sense, these types of zoning laws then are a 
way of capitalizing on the results of past racial 
discrimination in a seemingly race-blind way.
    In their book, ``From Here to Equality,'' William Darity 
and Kirsten Mullen argue that enduring harms of slavery and 
ongoing post-emancipation discrimination can be captured in and 
quantified by current racial wealth gaps.
    The intergenerational transmission of wealth makes relevant 
today the historic wealth differentials present at the time of 
emancipation, providing a direct link from the economic 
injustices of slavery to the economic disparities of today.
    The financial and insurance institutions that benefited 
from those injustices should have to reckon with the economic 
disparities of today.
    I thank you for the opportunity to discuss the enduring 
legacy of harm from slavery and the role of financial 
institutions.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Francis can be found on page 
37 of the appendix.]
    Chairman Green. Thank you, Dr. Francis.
    Dr. Rockman, you are recognized for 5 minutes to give an 
oral presentation of your testimony.

  STATEMENT OF SETH ROCKMAN, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, 
                        BROWN UNIVERSITY

    Mr. Rockman. Chairman Green, Full Committee Chairwoman 
Waters, and members of the subcommittee, I am honored to speak 
with you today. I join you as an historian whose research has 
focused on the role of slavery in American capitalism.
    In my scholarship, I have argued that slavery shaped the 
terrain of economic development in the United States. I do not 
believe that our society has fully grasped the degree to which 
the economic opportunity we celebrate as characteristic of the 
American experience writ large was historically contingent upon 
the exploited labor and commodified bodies of Black Americans.
    My reflections also draw on my experiences as a member of a 
community that has grappled with its own historical 
relationship to the ill-gotten gains of slavery. I must 
acknowledge the hope of Brown University's former president, 
Dr. Ruth Simmons, that our institution's engagement with our 
own history might serve as a model for the nation itself in 
pairing historical truth-telling with accountability and 
repair.
    My research specifically considers slavery as a national 
economic institution, not merely a Southern one, but rather one 
whose products and profits shaped lives and livelihoods 
thousands of miles away: in the Pennsylvania and Rhode Island 
textile mills that voraciously consumed slave-grown cotton; in 
a small Massachusetts village where virtually every family was 
involved in making shoes for slaves; and in the banks of New 
York City, where numerous financial calculations traced back to 
the price of cotton and to the assets stored in enslaved people 
as salable property.
    In light of these long-distance entanglements, my position 
emerges from the difficulty of determining precisely where the 
economy of slavery ended and some other kind of economy 
presumably began. These blurred boundaries suggest that the 
committee must be expansive in how it defines involvement in 
chattel slavery.
    For example, how should we reflect upon firms that 
manufactured slave-grown cotton into textiles and that spurred 
on the American industrial revolution? Remember, for example, 
that Berkshire Hathaway was once a textile company whose 
genealogy traces to a New England Quaker entrepreneur and the 
cotton textile mills he built in Rhode Island and Massachusetts 
as early as 1806.
    The proprietors of what was eventually the Valley Falls 
Company rarely paused to ask where their cotton came from, and 
as with almost every other firm in the New England textile 
manufacturing complex before 1865, virtually every cotton fiber 
they spun and wove would have been slave-grown and slave-
picked.
    New England textile manufacturers, as well as their 
lenders, their investors, and their insurers had a stake in the 
price of slave-grown cotton rivaling that of any slaveholder. 
Would not such enterprises then fall under proposed legislation 
requiring firms to disclose their ties to slavery?
    The same would hold true for a firm that brokered slave-
grown cotton or sugar into global markets like Brown Brothers 
Harriman, a company which impressively makes its history 
available on its corporate website. Insofar as the products of 
stolen slave labor were perhaps more likely to be 
collateralized than actual slaves themselves, we must recognize 
that the relationship of finance in slavery was more expansive 
than we would see if we just scoured the archive looking for 
debt instruments explicitly backed by enslaved people.
    Eventually, scholars may find that the wealth created in 
credit lines, tax breaks, rental revenues, annuities, and 
sales, that is value created through the market and the law's 
treatment of enslaved men, women, and children as assets was 
comparable to the value of the cotton, sugar, and rice those 
same men, women, and children produced through their unpaid 
field labor.
    As we assign a central role to finance in the overall 
functioning of American slavery, we must remember that 
references to property that was liquidated or settled or 
secured, referred to husbands being sold away from wives, or 
parents from children, transactions with affective costs far 
higher than anything that could ever be listed upon a balance 
sheet.
    To conclude, I want to concur with an earlier comment from 
Professor Darity in his April testimony: ``The largest burden 
falls upon the Federal Government, under which all of these 
horrific transactions and speculations were legal.''
    Entrenched legal definitions of property and people and 
prevailing legal commitments to the sanctity of contract 
allowed the edifice of American finance to be built upon 
enslaved labor, reaching deep into places where slavery itself 
had already been abolished. Slavery was a national institution, 
and whatever successes we will have in redressing slavery's 
long-lasting harms must be national in scale.
    I commend this committee's effort to put Congress, the 
deliberative body that legislates on behalf of the nation, at 
the forefront of specific policymaking that will seek to close 
the racial wealth gap, create civic space for remembrance and 
reconciliation, and preserve a truthful accounting of the 
American past, lest anyone in the future try to erase the 
fundamental fact that, for much of our nation's history, market 
freedom and human freedom stood in painful opposition to one 
another.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Rockman can be found on page 
47 of the appendix.]
    Chairman Green. Thank you, Dr. Rockman.
    Dr. Federman, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give 
an oral presentation of your testimony.

 STATEMENT OF SARAH FEDERMAN, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF CONFLICT 
              RESOLUTION, UNIVERSITY OF SAN DIEGO

    Ms. Federman. Good morning, Chairman Green, Full Committee 
Chairwoman Waters, and distinguished members of the 
subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My 
name is Sarah Federman, and I am a professor at the Kroc School 
of Peace Studies at the University of San Diego.
    My research looks at the intersection of corporations and 
mass atrocity, how they atone or reckon or do not for genocide, 
slavery, and colonial legacies. I began my career as an 
international advertising executive.
    I discovered that when you trace the thread of cotton 
through U.S. history, it does lead us to Wall Street, and the 
finance industry, more generally. Today, I have been asked to 
share a little bit more about the challenges of corporate 
reckoning, why we must proceed, and how best to do so.
    One of the arguments that we run into when engaging with 
corporations is that it is applying the law ex post facto 
because slavery was legal at the time. While I am not a legal 
scholar, I want to remind us that we are not pursuing criminal 
justice in these efforts; we are pursuing transitional justice 
through which nations and institutions differentiate themselves 
from a prior criminal regime by addressing the harm and 
committing to ethical behavior going forward. Most financial 
institutions that profited from slavery have not yet done this 
work.
    We also hear, rightly so, that we are all beneficiaries of 
cotton capitalism and plantation agriculture, so why focus on 
the banks? Here, I underscore another prior point that, yes, 
this will require government and taxpayer participation, but 
corporate as well.
    Another argument is that many businesses profited from 
slavery, both in the North and in the South--look at Lehman 
Brothers. But most companies have folded, so is it fair today 
to only hold the surviving enterprises accountable?
    To this I say, when legacy companies continue to profit 
from their heritage brand and strength due to ill-gotten gains 
but do not participate in the reckoning work, they continue 
their complicity with the prior regime. All institutions with 
these ties want to commit to transparency, relevant 
institutional reform, and to work with the affected 
communities.
    We also hear that everyone directly impacted by slavery is 
dead. Those here today and many others have detailed the 
legacies of slavery in the present. My written testimony offers 
some of these sources.
    Another argument you hear is why punish today's executives, 
employees, and shareholders for the ill deeds of the past? 
First, I would like us not to use the word, ``punish,'' because 
this is about addressing the harm, not focusing on punishment, 
so a more restorative frame. But beyond that, leaders of all 
institutions inherit the problems of their predecessors.
    Corporations and their leaderships can't refuse to address 
failed product lines or underperforming divisions simply 
because they did not create these problems. It is for leaders 
to take responsibility for those challenges in front of them, 
not just for their actions.
    Let's say corporations contribute to a fund like the German 
corporations did. How best to distribute the money? I do want 
to say that descendants and policymakers will never reach a 
consensus.
    When I interviewed Baltimore students and families, some 
wanted a check; others worried the money would disappear; some 
didn't want money from White people at all; and others were 
concerned that compensation would be a way to shut Black 
Americans up without sharing power or actually challenging 
discrimination.
    So, how best to proceed? Many people know what to do. We 
know what to do. There are many effective, underfunded programs 
like Safe Streets and Restorative Justice for Oakland Youth.
    There are experts doing great work in this area, like the 
California Reparations Task Force that has identified five 
major areas: housing discrimination; mass incarceration; unjust 
property seizures; devaluation of Black businesses; and 
healthcare. To this, I would add education. I saw in Baltimore 
how student loans became modern-day shackles. I believe 
offering three generations of free higher education to Black 
Americans will help undo some of this harm.
    Whatever we decide to do, the details matter. Holocaust 
survivors told me, many of them, told me that the letter they 
received from Germany was as meaningful as any money, but to 
have that recognition.
    Given that compensation can actually even worsen 
discrimination, because other groups don't understand why they 
haven't been compensated for their losses and their suffering, 
to mitigate this backlash, we must continuously educate those 
who do not know the history or understand the legacies of 
slavery as we move forward.
    This is a very divisive issue. You can never undo all the 
harm and we can never undo all discrimination, so why bother? 
We address the harm to Black American families not because it 
is easy or for accolades; we do it because these families had 
been repeatedly deprived of life, liberty, property, 
prosperity, and dignity, and if the United States wishes to 
continue to have any legitimacy on the global stage as 
advocates for human rights.
    Thank you to those who have educated me and those new to 
this work. As thankless as it may feel at times, you will help 
people you never hear from and acknowledge those who suffered 
their entire lives without recognition. Thank you for your 
time.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Federman can be found on 
page 32 of the appendix,]
    Chairman Green. Thank you, Dr. Federman.
    I now recognize the Chair of the Full Committee, the 
Honorable Chairwoman Maxine Waters, for 5 minutes for her 
questions.
    Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much, Congressman Green.
    I first would like to thank you for having not only the 
courage, but the energy that you are putting into raising, I 
think, one of the most significant questions about slavery that 
could possibly be raised, and you are in the right committee to 
do that in the House of Representatives.
    I want to address a question to Dr. Darity. Do you believe 
that local laws and ordinances such as the City of Chicago's 
Slavery Era Disclosure Ordinance passed in 2002 are effective 
measures to ensure that financial institutions remedy any harm 
they caused through their involvement with slavery?
    In your opinion, should the Federal Government model these 
laws and require similar audits?
    Before you answer that, I just want to, number one, 
remember my good friend, Dr. Ogletree, who has been involved in 
an aspect of this issue for so many years. He took me to 
Tulsa--and I have been to Tulsa several times--and I got to 
meet some of the survivors of the massacre, and the Supreme 
Court case that took place.
    So, I have watched what was being done in Oklahoma. And 
when we talk about these local ordinances, I don't see that, in 
Oklahoma, they have been able to do more than kind of 
apologize--I don't even think they have a statue. They have 
something else that they were doing.
    Dr. Darity, the question becomes, what about these local 
laws and ordinances? Are they effective?
    Mr. Darity. I think the local laws and ordinances that seek 
full disclosure for the historical record from companies that 
do business with cities and States have been effective. The 
Chicago case has generated a significant amount of information 
about the historical practices of a number of firms.
    And I think that is something that could be effectively 
replicated at the Federal level, and I think it is very much in 
the spirit of your June 2020 inquiry with a number of 
corporations. There needs to be some teeth behind that inquiry 
in the sense that, if they don't follow through, there should 
be some penalty that they are subjected to. But I think that is 
a very wise set of ordinances.
    In terms of other types of policies that have been pursued 
at the State and local level that aim at restorative justice, I 
am probably not quite as enthusiastic. I don't think that the 
issue of the racial wealth gap in the United States can be 
addressed in any significant way without the Federal Government 
adopting a program of reparations for Black Americans--
    Chairwoman Waters. Why do you believe that the Tulsa 
Massacre has never been significantly addressed in Oklahoma? 
They have not done anything with local ordinances, have they? 
Dr. Darity?
    Does anyone know what has been attempted in Tulsa to deal 
with the massacre that basically killed, murdered, and burned 
down all of the businesses of the Black community in Tulsa?
    Mr. Darity. I apologize--I lost audio a moment ago, so I 
couldn't hear what your question was, but--
    Chairwoman Waters. The basic question is, have you any 
knowledge about anything significant that has been done locally 
in Tulsa to deal with this issue?
    Mr. Darity. Yes. You mentioned Dr. Ogletree, and he was 
deeply involved in an effort to try to get some sort of 
judicial-based compensation for the victims of the Tulsa 
Massacre. And I think that most of the efforts that have been 
conducted in the Tulsa context have been attempts to go through 
the courts for some form of compensation, given the fact that 
the insurance companies did not provide any compensation.
    Chairwoman Waters. I want you to know that some of the 
original Black business individuals were still alive when Dr. 
Ogletree was working on this issue. I met three or four of 
them--they are all dead now--but they got no compensation.
    Mr. Darity. They got no compensation.
    Chairwoman Waters. They got nothing.
    Mr. Darity. But I don't think this can be handled by going 
through the judicial route for one fundamental reason, which is 
that the Federal Government ultimately has jurisdiction over 
this array of massacres. There were a hundred of them that took 
place, and the Federal Government either turned a blind eye or 
it actually provided, in some instances, the arms that were 
used by the White terrorists.
    And so I think we really, again, have to turn to the 
Federal Government to try to address the full array of 
atrocities that took the form--
    Chairwoman Waters. Thank you so much, Dr. Darity. I am way 
past my time. The Chair has been very generous.
    Thank you very much, Mr. Green.
    Chairman Green. The gentlelady yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Missouri, the 
Honorable Ann Wagner, for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Wagner. I thank my friend, Chairman Green, for the 
time, and again, I thank our witnesses for being here today.
    As I mentioned in my opening statement, right now the cost 
of goods is rising at a faster pace than the rate of wage 
growth, and people are being forced to put a larger portion of 
their paychecks towards necessities to make ends meet.
    Studies show that inflation is disproportionately more 
difficult to bear for lower-income and minority households. And 
just last week, during our Full Committee hearing on the ties 
between housing and inflation, we saw that many households 
throughout the country are limited by rent or home buying power 
or lack thereof.
    Dr. Darity, do you believe that the current inflation rate 
is exacerbating the racial wealth gap?
    Mr. Darity. I certainly think that the current inflation 
rate, as you suggested, has a disproportionate impact on low-
income families, particularly Black and Latino families, but I 
don't think there is a significant relationship to the racial 
wealth gap.
    The racial wealth gap is primarily driven by the 
intergenerational transfers of resources that are 
disproportionately held by White Americans in comparison with, 
say, Black Americans.
    Dr. Francis talked about that in some detail in her 
remarks.
    I think that the inflation has an adverse effect on 
people's capacity to save, but personal savings is not the 
primary factor that drives people's wealth accumulation. It is 
what you get from your parents and your grandparents that is 
really decisive in terms of determining your wealth position, 
and that has been racially disparate in the United States for 
multiple generations.
    Mrs. Wagner. Let me go on and cite the Bureau of Labor 
Statistics here. According to them, the median weekly earnings 
in the third quarter of 2022 for Black, Hispanic, and Latino 
workers with full-time jobs were about $300 lower than those of 
White and Asian workers.
    Dr. Darity, if wages rise slower than the rate of 
inflation, what is the net effect? And is it, therefore, fair 
to say that rising prices are disproportionately more painful 
for Black, Hispanic, and Latino workers?
    Mr. Darity. I acknowledge that, but in terms of the 
implications for the racial wealth gap, they are marginal. They 
are not significant or important. The racial wealth gap is not 
primarily a consequence of differences in savings outcomes 
across families; it is a consequence of the inability of Black 
families to transfer substantial resources to subsequent 
generations because of the nation's history of deprivation of 
previous generations from the opportunity to accumulate wealth.
    Mrs. Wagner. Thank you, Dr. Darity.
    Dr. Federman, you talked a little bit about the research 
that you have done.
    Can you elaborate a little bit more about what the 
difficulties are in finding, kind of, a one-size-fits-all 
solution with such a large group of impacted people? What steps 
do we need to take to understand all of the perspectives?
    Ms. Federman. Thank you for that question. And I think one 
is to prepare ourselves that there is not going to be 
consensus, and that doesn't mean that there is something wrong. 
As we move forward in working with affected communities, for 
example, as Dr. Rockman talked about, Brown Brothers Harriman, 
but that is from Alexander Brown and Sons family, which is 
based originally out of Baltimore; there is so much to do in 
Baltimore that the banks could work together in that area, 
those institutions that are legacy institutions to just address 
what is happening in Baltimore.
    So, there are a lot of local-level activities that can be 
done. People in these communities know what they need. We can 
walk into these communities and know what they need, so it is 
not terribly mysterious, but I think we are going to want to 
look at a plan that includes housing. And in the wake of George 
Floyd, when we saw a lot of American financial institutions 
give money for racial equity, they often did it in the form of 
loans that they could profit from, and I think it is very 
important as we engage these corporations going forward that we 
are talking about grants, housing grants, student loan grants 
as well, not just more loans, because people are so buried in 
debt.
    I think we want to engage continuously with affected 
communities, have these conversations with them about what they 
need, support those organizations that have proven to be 
effective but are simply underfunded, and then maybe a 
conversation about whether people should be getting checks. 
That is going to be a conversation for the nation to have as 
well.
    Mrs. Wagner. Thank you very much. I have used all of my 
time.
    And I yield back to the Chair.
    Chairman Green. The gentlelady yields back.
    The honorable gentlewoman from Michigan, Ms. Tlaib, is 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, Chairman Green, for holding 
this hearing. It has been truly an honor to serve under your 
leadership on this subcommittee, from hosting you in the 13th 
District to this incredibly important historic work that you 
have tackled on looking at the unthinkable horrors of slavery 
with the urgency that justice demands.
    Thank you so much, Chairman Green.
    I also want to thank our witnesses for their exhaustive 
research. Due to your work, we know the historical role of 
slavery in the financial industry is not abstract. The legacy 
of American slavery is still being felt in our communities 
across our nation today.
    We cannot look away. We must address these horrors, so that 
is why I really appreciate this subcommittee hearing.
    When we look at financial institutions that responded to 
our subcommittee's inquiries, of the seven institutions that 
found historical connections to slavery, just two have taken 
any steps. Of these two institutions, Truist provided a public 
acknowledgement, and JPMorgan created a $5-million scholarship 
fund.
    To all of our panelists, going down the line, yes or no, do 
you think these remediation steps are sufficient to acknowledge 
and atone for the role in American slavery?
    Dr. Darity?
    Mr. Darity. No, I don't think that these steps are 
sufficient, and I have argued in the past that what financial 
institutions ought to do, that would be a substantial act of 
atonement, is to build the endowments of Historically Black 
Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) to a level comparable to 
their predominantly-White peer institutions. I think that would 
be a step which would really be substantive.
    Ms. Tlaib. You answered my second question, Dr. Darity, so 
I appreciate that.
    I do want to ask you, Dr. Francis, do you think that these 
remediation steps by Truist and JPMorgan are sufficient to 
acknowledge an atonement for the role in American slavery?
    Ms. Francis. No, I don't think they are sufficient.
    Ms. Tlaib. Ms. Roberts?
    Ms. Roberts. No. And it also seems that the lack of 
response from other institutions is insufficient.
    Ms. Tlaib. Absolutely.
    Dr. Rockman?
    Mr. Rockman. Insufficient.
    Ms. Tlaib. Ms. Federman?
    Ms. Federman. Insufficient.
    Ms. Tlaib. My next question is--and I know Dr. Darity 
discussed it--but do you have any recommendations of what they 
can do to properly address their role in American history?
    Dr. Francis, I know you talked a little bit about this, but 
what do you think that we can do as a subcommittee to push them 
towards the appropriate response?
    Ms. Francis. Thank you. Thank you for the question.
    I think that financial institutions should commission 
studies to fully examine their historic involvement in and 
benefit from slavery. There should be greater transparency in 
the financial services industry regarding racial disparities 
and their current lending practices.
    Financial institutions should commit to funding and 
resources to community development activities in Black 
communities, and these efforts should be guided by local Black 
organizations. They should also review ways their current 
policies and practices may internalize and systemize racial 
discrimination in the form of race-neutral wealth-related 
requirements.
    And I also will note that Dr. Federman had a lot of 
excellent recommendations in part one of this hearing regarding 
steps for atonement, but importantly, I think that these 
atonement activities should not be mistaken as reparations, 
which, as Dr. Darity mentioned earlier, involve a much larger 
Federal effort.
    Ms. Tlaib. Thank you.
    So, a critical part of the process is properly 
understanding the role in the value of slave labor and how it 
affected the overall labor market in the U.S. economy.
    Dr. Rockman, can you help us understand the effects of 
slave labor within the U.S. economy on the broader labor 
market? Could the unpaid labor of enslaved people have 
comparable value to paid labor at the time, or did the very 
existence of unpaid labor fundamentally skew the entire labor 
market?
    Mr. Rockman. I would argue that the presence of enslaved 
labor in the U.S. actually skewed the entire labor market of 
the United States as a whole, including setting some of the 
wage levels thousands of miles away in the North, but also, in 
perhaps, say, mitigating some of the class conflict that might 
have grown necessarily out of the development of the wage 
system.
    If we look at the transition to factory capitalism in 
Europe, we see massive conflict between workers and their 
employers through much of the 19th Century. We see 
significantly less of that in the United States.
    What if it turns out, hypothetically speaking, that it is 
White supremacy and a commitment to keeping Black people 
enslaved that created solidarities between White workers and 
White employers in the North, which mitigated some of the bumpy 
political transitions that accompanied capitalism in the 19th 
Century? That would change everything.
    Ms. Tlaib. Yes.
    With that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you so much.
    Chairman Green. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has 
expired.
    The Chair now recognizes the honorable gentleman from 
Illinois, Mr. Garcia, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I 
thank all of the witnesses for joining us.
    I want to thank everyone who has kept this issue and this 
great challenge to our country alive by probing for answers and 
information.
    In 2002, as Chairwoman Waters pointed out, Chicago became 
the first major city to require companies interested in doing 
business with Chicago to disclose their ties to slave trade and 
labor.
    As a result of this ordinance, and additional legislation 
from States that followed, financial institutions have 
disclosed the profits they got from the financing of slavery, 
prompting apologies and renewed commitments to diversity and 
inclusion initiatives, but disclosures and apologies from 
financial institutions are not enough.
    We need legislation that requires actionable steps from 
public companies to address their ties to slavery and to remedy 
the history of racial inequity and economic disparity in the 
United States.
    Dr. Francis, Evanston, Illinois, has created a plan to 
provide housing grants to Black residents, prioritizing 
descendants of those who were harmed by discriminatory housing 
policies in the City.
    Do you believe that these initiatives sufficiently 
compensate for the suffering of Black Americans, and should 
they be implemented more broadly?
    Ms. Francis. Thank you for your question. No, I don't think 
they are sufficient, but I do recognize the spirit in which 
they are arrived at. And I think the reckoning that local 
jurisdictions have been doing with their past and their 
connections to slavery and discrimination is honorable and 
should be encouraged. But, again, the sheer size of what would 
be necessary to atone for, to repair, to address the history of 
slavery, again, thinking about the size of the racial wealth 
gap as symbolic of that, is much too large for any local 
jurisdictions to be able to marshal on their own.
    I guess, maybe to conclude, I think that it is good 
grassroots energy to think about mobilizing people at the local 
level, but it would be much better if that grassroots energy 
was devoted to a concerted national Federal response.
    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. Thank you. This question will be 
for both Dr. Darity and Dr. Francis. Please be mindful of time. 
I have about 2 minutes.
    The U.S. economy has benefited from centuries of unpaid 
labor and the business generated from slavery. You have 
estimated that a program to remediate this harm could cost the 
U.S. Government between $10 trillion and $12 trillion.
    How should the Federal Government structure the reparations 
program, and what can financial institutions do to address 
current structural disparities that could be traced to slavery?
    Mr. Darity. Dr. Francis, do you want to start with this one 
or--
    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. I have a minute and 20 seconds, 
just saying.
    Ms. Francis. Absolutely. There are many ways that we can 
address a reparations program by financing reparations through 
taxing and transferring. Reparations programs can be 
implemented as cash reparations, as trusts. And this is 
something that I think people have spent a good amount of time 
researching, but we still have unanswered questions. And I 
think that is why it is important to establish a commission to 
work on this and develop a solution.
    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. Thank you. Dr. Darity?
    Mr. Darity. The amount to eliminate the racial wealth gap 
is at least $14 trillion. The Federal Government has 
demonstrated its capacity to make those types of levels of 
payments, particularly if it is distributed over a 10-year 
timespan, in terms of its response to the Great Recession and 
also its more recent response to the pandemic.
    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. Thank you to all of our witnesses.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Green. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the honorable gentlewoman from 
Texas, Ms. Garcia, who is also the Vice Chair of our 
Subcommittee on Diversity and Inclusion.
    Ms. Garcia of Texas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you to all of the witnesses who are appearing 
before us today. It is great to see that we are continuing this 
discussion in this second series of discussions on the enduring 
legacy of slavery.
    I am reminded over and over that racism and the lasting 
horrors of slavery are built into every fiber of our financial 
system. The topic of today's hearing and the subcommittee's 
research into the history of financial institutions profiting 
from slavery reminds me of this even further.
    Our nation's history in this regard is dark. We must work 
tirelessly to right the wrongs of the past, because they are 
not the past. The lasting impacts of slavery continue to impact 
Americans every single day of our lives, and particularly in 
the financial sector.
    Throughout my time in Congress, I have committed myself to 
equity in financial services, striving for financial health and 
success for all Americans. During Part I of this hearing 
series, I asked about tangible steps that we could take to make 
the finance system more equitable. In reviewing today's 
committee materials, I understood that they need to continue 
with that line of questioning, because concrete actual progress 
is still urgently needed. I think some of you mentioned some of 
this being insufficient. I agree with you.
    Dr. Darity, of the finance institutions surveyed by this 
subcommittee, a concerning low number of companies with ties to 
slavery have taken concrete steps to enhance their community 
investments or, a great example you used was dollars to the 
endowment funds of the Historically Black Colleges and 
Universities. In an era of public commitment to diversity and 
inclusion from industry giants with perhaps too little action, 
what concrete actual steps can financial institutions do 
immediately, without us in Congress dictating what they should 
or shouldn't do?
    Mr. Darity. I think immediately, they could take steps to 
raise the endowment levels of Historically Black Colleges and 
Universities to a position that would be comparable to peer 
historically or predominantly-White institutions. That is a 
step that they could take immediately.
    Ms. Garcia of Texas. Right. Is there any other example that 
you can give us?
    Mr. Darity. Of other types of steps that they could take?
    Ms. Garcia of Texas. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Darity. They certainly could make sure, in some sense, 
that they could get their own houses in order in the sense of 
ensuring that their own personnel, staff, and leadership is 
reflective of the composition of the national community at 
large. And that is a diversity and inclusion project.
    Ms. Garcia of Texas. Correct. And we do have a Subcommittee 
on Diversity and Inclusion, where we work really hard on that.
    Ms. Roberts, we have data which shows that Black and other 
minority populations have extremely reduced access to lending 
services and other forms of capital necessary to help 
businesses thrive.
    In practice, how do we address this? What can Congress do 
and what can banks do to ensure that access to capital is more 
equitable?
    Ms. Roberts. Thanks for the question. Ensuring that all 
communities have access to capital could require something as 
easy as investigating their own sort of openness and 
accessibility to different communities, ensuring that 
information is available in community, geographically and based 
on neighborhood, in the language that is spoken by the 
community that is relevant, and ensuring that services are 
accessible with little or no financial barrier in order to get 
in the door. That is good for a bank's business. It would 
ensure that they have sort of a robust customer base that they 
are building up.
    But I also want to point out that shareholders have power 
in this capacity as well. In different financial institutions, 
shareholders are making demands all the time of business 
practice and ensuring that institutions are behaving 
responsibly, in terms of the environment, in terms of 
investments. They could also be doing so to ensure that 
financial services are accessible to a wide range of 
communities.
    Ms. Garcia of Texas. Thank you.
    Ms. Roberts, I wanted to quickly talk about today's current 
redlining. It is no longer people getting together and actually 
drawing red lines on a map; it is done with algorithms and 
online applications that will know whom to invite in.
    What can we do to have better access to homeownership 
despite some of these barriers that seem to be cropping up and 
we just can't seem to--it is what I call the high-tech 
redlining.
    Ms. Roberts. Ensuring that financial institutions are not 
using algorithms in a discriminatory way is a really crucial 
part of this, but there is also still a human element.
    Significant research has shown the lower valuation that 
happens when a home valuator assumes or knows that the owner of 
the home is Black. That has shown significant impact on 
neighborhood-based home price increases over the past decades.
    Federal Government efforts to ensure that there is a check 
on valuation discrimination is a really crucial part here, as 
well as providing upfront capital and support. That has 
happened at the local levels. For example, the District of 
Columbia has been working on that significantly to increase the 
support for first-time homebuyers and others who have been 
excluded from the intergenerational transfer of wealth, as 
Professor Darity has so clearly articulated here.
    Ms. Garcia of Texas. Thank you.
    I see my time is up, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Green. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    The honorable gentlewoman from Georgia, Ms. Williams, who 
is also the Vice Chair of our Subcommittee on Oversight and 
Investigations, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Williams of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    In the post-Civil War era, the Exception Clause of the 13th 
Amendment was exploited as Black Americans were arrested for 
minor crimes under Black Codes and then released out to work in 
many of the same places they had previously been enslaved.
    Dr. Rockman, can you give us a sense of the economic impact 
of the exploitation from the Exception Clause?
    Mr. Rockman. I am afraid that is beyond the purview of my 
own direct research. But my sense, from what seems to be a 
scholarly consensus around the issue, is that the economic 
exploitation of Black Americans existed before slavery and 
after slavery, in the 18th Century, in the 19th Century, and in 
the 20th Century.
    And wherever we choose to start the clock in looking for 
where we need to address repair, we will find ample cause to do 
so.
    Ms. Williams of Georgia. Thank you so much.
    Ms. Roberts, today, what role could the financial industry 
play to pass a bill like the Abolition Amendment to fully 
eliminate the Exception Clause as industries work to ensure 
equity and atone for the past?
    Ms. Roberts. Financial institutions obviously have enormous 
capital, and with capital comes political reach. And I would 
encourage financial institutions to think critically about the 
ways that they are using their political reach to advocate for 
policies that will bring more people in their doors as future 
customers.
    With financial stability comes greater access to financial 
services. It would be to the advantage of many of these 
financial institutions to ensure that all Americans have a 
level economic playing field.
    Ms. Williams of Georgia. Thank you, Ms. Roberts. I think 
the Abolition Amendment, which is a great bipartisan piece of 
legislation, is a great start.
    And, with that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to yield the 
balance of my time to you for any questions that you may have.
    Chairman Green. I thank the gentlelady for yielding, and 
would move forward with the question before I yield time to 
myself, as I am next in line to speak.
    Friends, at the September 21st hearing, I presented the 
CEOs of the largest U.S. banks with information on their 
connections to slavery. I asked if they had done enough to 
atone for their connectivity to slavery, to which all indicated 
they had.
    However, thereafter, I followed up and asked them if they 
had and would commit to preparing an atonement plan, and I 
asked if they would raise their hands if they were prepared to 
submit an atonement plan. These are the persons present, and 
none, not one, raised a hand.
    I mention this because I think the point that has been made 
today by several members, including Mr. Garcia, Mrs. Beatty, 
who is not here, and Ms. Garcia, who is here, Mr. Garcia, Ms. 
Garcia, and members of the panel, including Dr. Darity, the 
notion that we will be able to resolve this by simply having 
these very wealthy businesses simply cooperate, which is what I 
would like to see, doesn't seem to be manifesting itself. I 
just don't see that happening in the current circumstance that 
we are dealing with.
    Given that it doesn't, I have a bill that I filed as a 
placeholder, and this bill would simply give us the opportunity 
to amend it and later on file an additional bill that would 
allow us to move forward with the kind of bill that you have 
been discussing and calling to my attention. It requires the 
Securities and Exchange Act to allow us to have racial equity 
audits. I think that this is the genesis, but I think there is 
much more that we need to do.
    What I would like to do is ask Dr. Darity about your desire 
and belief that we can have these endowments funded by these 
institutions. I have had the honor of working with you, Dr. 
Darity, and I believe you have presented a plan, a sort of 
outline as to how this can be accomplished.
    Would you take just a moment, please, and explain how you 
would have this take place as it relates to the financial 
institutions?
    Mr. Darity. I think I would like to talk about a specific 
example, which is the case of JPMorgan Chase that had two 
subsidiaries that were based in the State of Louisiana. And I 
performed an exercise of examining the Historically Black 
Colleges and Universities in the State of Louisiana and matched 
them with peer institutions.
    For example, I matched Dillard University with Tulane 
University, I matched Southern University with Louisiana State 
University, and looked at the per-student differentials in 
endowments across--
    Chairman Green. Mr. Darity, I am going to ask that you 
suspend for just a moment, because the time for Ms. Williams 
has expired.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes, and I would ask that 
you continue. Thank you.
    Mr. Darity. Okay. Thank you. I came up with a calculation 
of the amount that would be required to bring the endowments of 
the Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) in 
Louisiana on par with their peer historically White 
institutions.
    And, if I recall correctly, the total amount was not 
particularly staggering relative to JPMorgan Chase's assets, 
which are now, I believe, in excess of $3 trillion.
    It is interesting that it was mentioned earlier that they 
had set aside a fund for $5 million. I think that's a very, 
very small allotment, given the scale of their resources.
    Chairman Green. Thank you. Let me move to another area of 
great concern for me, and the chairwoman mentioned this in her 
questioning, and that is, why have we not moved along to a 
greater extent in trying to get this reparations and 
atonement--I separate the two--to get this done?
    I find that many people are ashamed of being associated 
with the title, ``slave.'' I consider myself a proud, proud 
ancestor, proud to be associated with my ancestors who were 
slaves. I think that is a part of my heritage.
    They built this country, to a certain extent. They are the 
foundational mothers and fathers of this country. The Capitol 
Building, Yale, Harvard University--they constructed facilities 
there. And I am very proud to be a descendent of the people who 
built the country, but many are not.
    I am asking now, how is it that you think we can get beyond 
this, being the perfect victims, the persons who are victims, 
yet ashamed to acknowledge that we are associated with an 
institution that we did not create but that has caused us great 
harm over the centuries, not over the years but over the 
centuries?
    Who would like to give me some assistance? Yes, if you will 
announce your name and speak, please?
    Ms. Francis. Thank you. It is Dania Francis.
    I think an important aspect is education. We are afraid of 
teaching the history of this country in a way that erases all 
of these things that we don't want to see. At the University--
    Chairman Green. Let me interrupt you for just a moment, 
because you have gone exactly where I would like you to go.
    Now, in Texas, we are making it almost impossible to teach 
this type of history, because it is being labeled as something 
that is antithetical to the best interests of children. Are you 
familiar with what I speak of? Okay. You may continue, please. 
How do we address it?
    Ms. Francis. Absolutely. And I think it is a local problem 
that becomes national, and we need to have solutions that 
address it locally as well.
    We need to be in those school board meetings. We need to 
mobilize and try to take back some of the control over the 
curriculum and spaces that are trying to deny what is the 
documented history of the country.
    I think it is a local problem that we have to address. 
There has to be a grassroots effort in order to avoid the 
larger national problem that it is becoming.
    Chairman Green. Thank you.
    Finally, I would like to ask each of you, if you would, to 
give me a yes-or-no answer to this question. This committee has 
jurisdiction over financial institutions. Do you believe that 
we should develop legislation that would have an impact on 
financial institutions should they fail to engage in atonement? 
And I will leave it as impact as opposed to the type of impact. 
We will just say impact for now.
    Let's start with Dr. Darity. Yes or no, should we?
    Mr. Darity. Yes.
    Chairman Green. Dr. Francis?
    Ms. Francis. Yes.
    Chairman Green. Ms. Roberts?
    Ms. Roberts. Yes.
    Chairman Green. Dr. Rockman?
    Mr. Rockman. Yes.
    Chairman Green. And, finally, Dr. Federman?
    Ms. Federman. Yes.
    Chairman Green. All persons having agreed, I think that you 
have given us reason to move forward with legislation, and I 
will encourage my friends who have addressed this issue today 
to help me with the legislation, both Mr. and Ms. Garcia. Mrs. 
Beatty has already been involved with this. And let's see if we 
can come up with legislation--Ms. Williams as well--that will 
help us to encourage our financial institutions to atone for 
their connections to slavery that have benefited them over the 
years.
    I thank all of our witnesses for your testimony today.
    The Chair notes that some Members may have additional 
questions for these witnesses, which they may wish to submit in 
writing. Without objection, the hearing record will remain open 
for 5 legislative days for Members to submit written questions 
to these witnesses and to place their responses in the record. 
Also, without objection, Members will have 5 legislative days 
to submit extraneous materials to the Chair for inclusion in 
the record.
    This hearing is now adjourned, and I thank all of the 
witnesses again for being with us, and I look forward to having 
a follow-up visit with you.
    [Whereupon, at 11:31 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                            A P P E N D I X



                            December 7, 2022
                            
                            
 [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]