[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]





                                 




 
                           THE HOLIDAY RUSH:


                      IS THE POSTAL SERVICE READY?

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS

                                 OF THE

                   COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                           NOVEMBER 16, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-110

                               __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Reform
      
     GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
 
      
      
      


                       Available at: govinfo.gov,
                         oversight.house.gov or
                             docs.house.gov
                             
                             
                             
                           ______

             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
 49-684 PDF          WASHINGTON : 2025
                            
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                   COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM

                CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York, Chairwoman

Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of   James Comer, Kentucky, Ranking 
    Columbia                             Minority Member
Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts      Jim Jordan, Ohio
Jim Cooper, Tennessee                Virginia Foxx, North Carolina
Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia         Jody B. Hice, Georgia
Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois        Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Jamie Raskin, Maryland               Michael Cloud, Texas
Ro Khanna, California                Bob Gibbs, Ohio
Kweisi Mfume, Maryland               Clay Higgins, Louisiana
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York   Ralph Norman, South Carolina
Rashida Tlaib, Michigan              Pete Sessions, Texas
Katie Porter, California             Fred Keller, Pennsylvania
Cori Bush, Missouri                  Andy Biggs, Arizona
Shontel M. Brown, Ohio               Andrew Clyde, Georgia
Danny K. Davis, Illinois             Nancy Mace, South Carolina
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Florida    Scott Franklin, Florida
Peter Welch, Vermont                 Jake LaTurner, Kansas
Henry C. ``Hank'' Johnson, Jr.,      Pat Fallon, Texas
    Georgia                          Yvette Herrell, New Mexico
John P. Sarbanes, Maryland           Byron Donalds, Florida
Jackie Speier, California            Mike Flood, Nebraska
Robin L. Kelly, Illinois
Brenda L. Lawrence, Michigan
Mark DeSaulnier, California
Jimmy Gomez, California
Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts

                      Russ Anello, Staff Director
  Wendy Ginsberg, Subcommittee on Government Operations Staff Director
                         Morgan Soloman, Clerk

                      Contact Number: 202-225-5051

                  Mark Marin, Minority Staff Director
                                 ------                                

                 Subcommittee on Government Operations

                 Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia, Chairman
Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of   Jody B. Hice, Georgia Ranking 
    Columbia                             Minority Member
Danny K. Davis, Illinois             Fred Keller, Pennsylvania
John P. Sarbanes, Maryland           Andrew Clyde, Georgia
Brenda L. Lawrence, Michigan         Andy Biggs, Arizona
Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts      Nancy Mace, South Carolina
Jamie Raskin, Maryland               Jake LaTurner, Kansas
Ro Khanna, California                Yvette Herrell, New Mexico
Katie Porter, California
Shontel M. Brown, Ohio
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hearing held on November 16, 2022................................     1

                               Witnesses

Ms. Tammy W. Hull, Inspector General, U.S. Postal Service Office 
  of the Inspector General
Oral Statement...................................................     8
Mr. Edmund A. Carley, National President, United Postmasters and 
  Managers of America
Oral Statement...................................................    10
Mr. Paul V. Hogrogian, National President, National Postal Mail 
  Handlers Union
Oral Statement...................................................    11
Mr. Michael Plunkett, President and Chief Executive Officer, 
  Association for Postal Commerce
Oral Statement...................................................    13
Mr. Gregory T. White, Executive Manager of Strategic Initiatives, 
  U.S. Postal Service
Oral Statement...................................................    14

Written opening statements and statements for the witnesses are 
  available on the U.S. House of Representatives Document 
  Repository at: docs.house.gov.

                           Index of Documents

                              ----------                              

  * The Road Ahead for Postal Financial Services USPS OIG Report; 
  submitted by Chairman Connolly.

  * Keep Us Posted Statement for the Record; submitted by Rep. 
  Maloney.

  * National Association of Postal Supervisors Statement for the 
  Record; submitted by Rep. Maloney.

  * Fiscal Year 2023 Peak Season Preparedness; submitted by Rep. 
  Maloney.

  * American Catalog Mailers Association; submitted by Rep. 
  Maloney.

  * Postal Service Report for Fiscal Year 2022; submitted by Rep. 
  Maloney.

  * Questions for the Record: to Mr. White, Executive Manager of 
  Strategic Initiatives, U.S. Postal Servicesubmitted by Chairman 
  Connolly.

  * Questions for the Record: to Mr. Carley, National President, 
  United Postmasters and Managers of America; submitted by 
  Chairman Connolly.

  * Questions for the Record: to Mr. Hogrogian, National 
  President, National Postal Mail Handlers Union; submitted by 
  Chairman Connolly.

  * Questions for the Record: to Mr. Plunkett, President and 
  Chief Executive Officer, Association for Postal Commerce; 
  submitted by Chairman Connolly.

  * Questions for the Record: to Ms. Hull, Inspector General, 
  U.S. Postal Service Office of the Inspector General; submitted 
  by Chairman Connolly.

Documents entered into the record during this hearing are listed 
  below, and are available at: docs.house.gov.


                           THE HOLIDAY RUSH:



                      IS THE POSTAL SERVICE READY?

                              ----------                              


                      Wednesday, November 16, 2022

                   House of Representatives
                  Committee on Oversight and Reform
                      Subcommittee on Government Operations
                                                   Washington, D.C.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:27 p.m., in 
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, and via Zoom, Hon. 
Gerald E. Connolly (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Connolly, Maloney, Norton, Davis, 
Lawrence, Raskin, Khanna, Porter, Brown, Hice, and Keller.
    Also present: Representatives Mfume, Wasserman Schultz, 
Pascrell, and Gottheimer.
    Mr. Connolly. The committee will come to order.
    Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a 
recess.
    Mr. Keller. Mr. Chair, I would just have a question. I 
mean, we've all been here for almost a half an hour. In view of 
the things that we have going on here, could we have like a 
motion to adjourn, so we can actually start on time and be 
prepared to be able to spend the full time here?
    Because we're now going to run a half an hour past where we 
were, and I've got other things going on, and I'd like to 
participate in the meeting. And we planned on it, and we were 
here on time as were all these people.
    I mean, we're here to talk about the post office's service, 
and they're not the one that showed up 25 minutes late. So I 
would make a motion to adjourn.
    Mr. Connolly. I thank the gentleman for his courtesy and 
civility. He has moved to adjourn. The motion is not debatable.
    All those favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, no.
    In the opinion of the chair, the noes have it.
    Mr. Keller. Could we have a recorded vote?
    Mr. Connolly. A recorded vote has been requested. I'd ask 
the clerk to join the meeting. Given the fact the gentleman is 
so concerned about the expenditure of time, I'm a little 
surprised that we're going to spend this time on this motion, 
but we are.
    Mr. Keller. If you can waste time, I can too.
    Mr. Connolly. Again, I thank the gentleman for his 
civility. A great way to start the lame duck session.
    Is the clerk--the clerk's on the way. I apologize to our 
panel for this delay.
    I will make a note, while we're waiting for the clerk, we 
have requests to waive members onto the subcommittee as 
participants for the purpose of the hearing. Those members are 
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, William Pascrell, Josh Gottheimer and 
Kweisi Mfume. I just noted it. I didn't ask for consent yet. I 
thought I'd fill up the time so we're not----
    Of course, we're also joined by our distinguished 
chairwoman, Carolyn Maloney, for the purpose of this committee.
    Our witnesses today--let me introduce them informally--are 
Tammy Whitcomb Hull, inspector general of the U.S. Postal 
Service; Paul Hogrogian, national president of the National 
Postal Mail Handlers Union; Edmund Carley, national president 
of the United Postmasters and Managers of America; Michael 
Plunkett, the president and chief executive officer of the 
Association for Postal Commerce; Gregory White, executive 
manager of Strategic Initiatives for the U.S. Postal Service.
    We look forward to your testimony, and we'll swear you in 
as soon as this motion. We're still trying to get our clerk. I 
would hope that members are alerted to the fact that there's a 
recorded vote pending and make themselves available.
    We have a clerk. The clerk will call the roll.
    The motion is to adjourn.
    All those in favor will say aye, and all those opposed will 
say nay.
    The chair has already ruled that verbally the nays had it.
    The clerk will call the roll.
    The Clerk. Mr. Connolly?
    Mr. Connolly. Nay.
    The Clerk. Ms. Norton?
    Ms. Norton. No.
    Mr. Connolly. Would you repeat, Ms. Norton? I don't think 
she heard it.
    Ms. Norton. No.
    The Clerk. Ms. Norton votes no.
    Mr. Davis?
    [No response.]
    The Clerk. Mr. Sarbanes?
    [No response.]
    The Clerk. Mrs. Lawrence?
    Mrs. Lawrence. No.
    The Clerk. Mrs. Lawrence votes no.
    Mr. Lynch?
    [No response.]
    The Clerk. Mr. Raskin?
    Mr. Raskin. Raskin votes no on adjournment.
    The Clerk. Mr. Raskin votes no.
    Mr. Khanna?
    [No response.]
    The Clerk. Ms. Porter?
    Ms. Porter. Porter votes no.
    The Clerk. Ms. Porter votes no.
    Ms. Brown?
    Ms. Brown. Brown votes no.
    The Clerk. Ms. Brown votes no.
    Mr. Hice?
    Mr. Hice. Yes.
    The Clerk. Mr. Hice votes yes.
    Mr. Keller?
    Mr. Keller. Yes.
    The Clerk. Mr. Keller votes yes.
    Mr. Clyde?
    [No response.]
    The Clerk. Mr. Biggs?
    [No response.]
    The Clerk. Ms. Mace?
    [No response.]
    The Clerk. Mr. LaTurner?
    [No response.]
    The Clerk. Ms. Herrell?
    [No response.]
    The Clerk. Mrs. Maloney?
    Mrs. Maloney. No.
    The Clerk. Mrs. Maloney votes no.
    Mr. Connolly. The clerk will record the vote.
    The Clerk. We have two ayes and seven nays.
    Mr. Connolly. The motion is not agreed to.
    I recognize myself for my opening statement.
    Last year, we held a hearing in Chicago to investigate its 
deteriorating mail delivery performance. This February we 
visited Baltimore, the city with the worst on-time delivery 
rating in the Nation.
    Two months ago, we met in Philadelphia, a city beset with 
poor postal performance and unsafe conditions for postal 
workers.
    Today we're back in D.C. We're here right before the Postal 
Service's pivotal holiday rush for our fourth hearing examining 
postal delivery in just 13 months.
    During peak season, a rush of packages and letters places 
additional strain on the Postal Service's work force and 
logistics network, resulting in consistent drops in on-time 
delivery for nearly all mail.
    Today's hearing will thoughtfully and thoroughly examine, I 
hope, the Postal Service's preparation for peak season. We'll 
hear from Postal Service officials, Postal Service workers, 
managers, mailers and the inspector general about what slows 
down mail delivery and what steps the Postal Service has taken 
and could take to mitigate those delays.
    In fact, today the Postal Service Office of the Inspector 
General released a report entitled ``Fiscal Year 2023 Peak 
Season Preparedness,'' which examines the Postal Service's peak 
season preparations. We look forward to hearing insights from 
Inspector General Hull.
    Families, businesses, and communities rely on the mail 
year-round and, in particular, during peak season. Our 
subcommittee aims to ensure that the Postal Service is taking 
all steps possible to deliver this holiday season.
    In 2020, at the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Postal 
Service had its worst peak season in recent years, with its 
nationwide on-time delivery performance sinking to lows of 67.4 
percent in December for First-Class Single-Piece Letters.
    Fortunately, nationwide on-time delivery performance 
improved during the following year. While we certainly 
recognize this progress, some of the improvement is the result 
of the Postal Service's own changes to delivery standards, 
making it easier for them to meet lower standards.
    Cost-effective, reliable service is vital to the Postal 
Service's long-term survival. Late or lost deliveries can 
humbug the holiday spirit in the short term and may drive 
mailers away in the long term.
    The Postal Service is preparing for this year's peak season 
by hiring seasonal employees, leasing additional facilities, 
and taking other measures, and that's good. Unfortunately, 
early recent reports indicate that the Postal Service is 
struggling to hire those temporary workers because of tight 
labor market and insufficient wages and benefits, especially in 
communities with a high cost of living.
    Failure to meet these targets puts additional strain on 
front-line employees, mail handlers, managers and those along 
the mail supply chain. Injuries can increase delivery and can 
slow it.
    In April, Congress passed the Postal Service Reform Act, 
which I was proud to cosponsor with our chair and the ranking 
member. This once-in-a-generation legislation puts the Postal 
Service on the path to financial solvency. In fact, just last 
week, the Postal Service reported that the bill added $57 
billion to Fiscal Year 2022 revenue.
    It's our job in Congress to make certain the Postal Service 
uses its new authorities and seizes opportunities to grow its 
product line and customer base. Congress remains poised to 
ensure that the Postal Service executes its new 
responsibilities appropriately.
    Congress also needs to make certain that the Postal Service 
is accessible to everybody. We must ensure that rate increases 
for shipping and mailing packages do not make the Postal 
Service a service for the privileged. That's why we introduced 
the Ensuring Accurate Postal Rates Act. This bill would require 
the Postal Regulatory Commission to reconsider if the Postal 
Service needs increased ratemaking authority when accounting 
for the positive financial effects of the Postal Reform Act.
    The Postal Service has a statutory obligation to deliver 
the mail to 163 million households across the country every 
day. Peak holiday season should be the time for the Postal 
Service to showcase its ability to deliver for this Nation. 
Today, we'll ensure that the Postal Service is ready to meet 
that moment.
    The chair now recognizes the ranking member for his opening 
statement.
    Mr. Hice. Thank you very much, Chairman Connolly. I think 
it's important not to lose sight of a very important fact. That 
is that, despite the passage of the Postal Service Reform Act, 
the Postal Service is still in very bad financial condition. We 
have likewise asked Louis DeJoy to perform something just shy 
of a miracle, quite frankly.
    The Postal Service may be a beloved and vital American 
institution, but the PSRA did not change the fact that it is 
based on an outdated business model when it comes to delivering 
mail.
    Mr. DeJoy has come up with a plan to try to save the Postal 
Service, but obviously implementing such a plan involves 
change, and it has to. Doing the same old thing simply is not 
going to work. And, look, I appreciate the fact that change 
makes people nervous. I understand that. And I appreciate the 
message that stakeholders want more information about the 
Postal Service's plan, and I would encourage Postal Service 
leadership to be as forthcoming as they can be with respect to 
what they have in mind.
    It also involves acknowledging mistakes. My colleagues on 
the other side of the aisle were quick to condemn Mr. DeJoy for 
his initial attempts to improve efficiency. These moves, which 
involve curtailing unapproved overtime, making sure blue-
collar--or blue collection boxes were located in the right 
places, and making sure trucks ran on time, all of these 
portrayed as attempts to steal the 2020 election. I think 
that's very unfortunate.
    The Postal Service delivered in that election, both 
literally and figuratively. And, if this election that we're 
currently involved in, frankly, if it ever wraps up, I believe 
we will learn how well the Postal Service did this time around 
as well.
    I'm given to understand Mr. DeJoy acknowledges his attempts 
to get the trucks running on time did not work and that he does 
not want to repeat that mistake. That's what leaders do. They 
try. They act. They acknowledge their mistakes, they learn from 
them, and they move on.
    But, quite frankly, if Democrats are going to hold Mr. 
DeJoy to a zero-fault standard, then they should apply the same 
standard to the Biden administration. Let's just say there 
would be a lot of vacancies.
    But the most important thing is that we've got to take 
action. The most conventional wisdom and all-too-frequent truth 
in any kind of Federal service is to go along to get along, and 
that simply is not going to work now.
    The attitude of don't rock the boat is unacceptable. The 
fact is the boat in this case is sinking, and I applaud Mr. 
DeJoy for trying to keep it afloat. There are no other good 
options that I'm aware of. Throughout history, this country has 
struggled to make the Postal Service a viable institution.
    If the current model fails, I suspect my Democrat friends 
won't be lining up to privatize the Postal Service. And 
returning the Postal Service to an appropriated agency has 
failed in spectacular fashion. That's why we have a Postal 
Service and not a Postal Department.
    We have to let the Postal Service focus on its core mission 
of delivering mail and packages. But Democrats want to use the 
Postal Service as a guinea pig for a progressive agenda. Why 
would anyone think that postal banking would be a success? And 
the insistence that the Postal Service become a vehicle charger 
for the Nation is just absolutely misguided in every way.
    With respect to peak season, it sounds from the inspector 
general that the Postal Service has a good plan in place. 
Obviously, that does not guarantee success, but it's a plan. 
And I look forward to hearing more of that in this hearing.
    It seems the Postal Service has learned, to me at least, 
from past mistakes and is proactively working to correct them. 
And that's why we can fairly be in this hearing today and ask 
the questions that will be asked. Once the peak season is over, 
the committee can then take a look at how this peak season 
went. And I certainly hope to be able to tune into that 
wherever I may be.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, I thank you and I yield back.
    Mr. Connolly. I thank the gentleman. And I note this is his 
I think penultimate hearing on the subcommittee. And I thank 
him for his service and his cooperation and his partnership.
    The chair listed people, other members seeking to be waived 
onto the subcommittee for the purpose of participating in this 
hearing. Is there any objection?
    Seeing and hearing none, it is agreed.
    If our witnesses whom I've introduced would rise and raise 
their right hand to be sworn in.
    Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to 
give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God?
    Ms. Hull. I do.
    Mr. Carley. I do.
    Mr. Hogrogian. I do.
    Mr. Plunkett. I do.
    Mr. White. I do.
    Mr. Connolly. Let the record show all of our witnesses have 
answered in the affirmative. I thank you.
    And I now call on our distinguished chairwoman, who helped 
lead a successful effort for postal reform, the first 
comprehensive postal reform in 16 years, Carolyn Maloney, for 
any opening statement she may have.
    Mrs. Maloney. Thank you very much, Chairman Connolly and 
Ranking Member Hice, for holding this important and timely 
hearing. The Postal Service is one of our most cherished and 
valuable institutions.
    It is one of the few--I think it's really the only 
government service that is mentioned in the Constitution of the 
United States of America, indicating how important the Postal 
Service is to unifying us as a country.
    I have always been very proud of the fact that one stamp 
can go to Alaska or across the street in New York City, and it 
costs the same. Everyone is treated equally in it. It's a 
democracy, and everybody receives their mail.
    Our dedicated postal employees deliver to more than 160 
million locations six days a week. And it was one of the 
provisions of our bill that it went from five days to six days. 
It's now the law that they will be operating six days a week.
    They operate at the center of a $1.6 trillion mailing 
industry that employs more than 7 million people and delivers 
nearly half the world's mail. Postal workers truly bind our 
Nation together, ensuring that millions of Americans have 
access to essential items, like medicine and Social Security 
checks.
    And I might add that, through the COVID crisis, all of our 
mail was delivered. Our employees were heroic. Many of them 
became sick because they were interacting with the public every 
day with their responsibilities. And we owe a debt of gratitude 
to the Postal Service and the role that they played during the 
COVID crisis.
    We were reminded just last week of the critical role the 
Postal Service plays as millions of Americans once again opted 
to vote by mail during the midterm elections. And in the coming 
weeks, activity at post offices and mail processing plants 
around the country will ramp up significantly with a wave of 
holiday mail and packages we'll be hearing about in this 
hearing.
    Unfortunately, we all know too well that sometimes the 
Postal Service performance has been slower and less reliable. 
And we are concerned, I am concerned about operational changes 
in 2020 that happened without testing them first and without 
communicating fully with employees or customers.
    So I am proud that this committee has delivered for postal 
customers in recent years. We have delivered with strong 
oversight and historic bipartisan legislative reform. Earlier 
this year, President Biden signed the bipartisan Postal Service 
Reform Act into law.
    The law, which I was proud to co-author with Ranking Member 
Comer, put the Postal Service on sound financial footing after 
decades of decline. The new law lowered Postal Service retiree 
health cost benefits and removed the burdensome retiree 
healthcare prefunding obligation, all while preserving six-day 
delivery and freeing the Postal Service to experiment with new 
products and services to help their financial bottom line.
    I do want to say and ask unanimous consent to put into the 
record ``Postal News,'' the U.S. Postal Service report for 
Fiscal Year 2022. And it shows a revenue of $78.5 billion, 
which is up $1.5 billion over the previous fiscal year. It also 
showed a one-time noncash benefit of $57 billion due to the 
Postal Service bipartisan reform legislation.
    This committee has also led the way in providing----
    Mr. Connolly. Without objection, so ordered.
    Mrs. Maloney. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    This committee has also led the way in providing the Postal 
Service new resources to replace old, unreliable, gas-guzzling 
delivery out-of-date vehicles. At my urging, along with many 
members of this committee on both sides, the Postal Service 
will now be using billions of dollars made available in the 
Inflation Reduction Act to deploy a new electric vehicle fleet. 
And I am grateful that the Postal Service has agreed that at 
least half of the initial order of next-generation delivery 
vehicles will be electric.
    Now the Postal Service needs to go fully electric and build 
a robust charging network to support these vehicles. 
Particularly in our rural areas, they can play an important 
role here. Over time, these investments will reduce costs, 
improve reliability, and help the Postal Service more 
efficiently deliver letters and packages while also 
contributing to urgent efforts to cut greenhouse gas emissions.
    Thanks to the work of this committee, the Postal Service is 
in an excellent position to move past the challenges that have 
held it back in recent years. But I still have concerns about 
service quality at the Postal Service. On-time performance has 
rebounded from the steep decline we saw in 2020. First-class 
mail is once again delivered on schedule about 90 percent of 
the time.
    But the Postal Service achieved these gains, at least in 
part, by weakening its own service standards. And, as Chairman 
Connolly has noted, other troubling recent trends, like a spike 
in mail thefts, threatens America's trust in the mail.
    I want to give one--we need to look at the new 10-year 
plan, which proposes moving sorting and processing activities 
from local post offices to larger regional facilities, even 
though the inspector general found that a similar plan 
implemented in 2010 may not have cut costs or improved 
operations at all. So I look forward to the IG's comments on 
these proposed changes on whether it will achieve its goal.
    It is the responsibility of the Postal Service to find ways 
to overcome difficulties they face and get mail delivered on 
time. To do this, it is critical that Postal Service leadership 
remember that it is not a private business but a public service 
essential to our country.
    We all want the Postal Service to be financially viable. I 
understand the need for making tough choices, but offering 
worse service for higher prices will not increase the public's 
faith in the Postal Service. In fact, it might end up pushing 
people and businesses away from using the Postal Service. We 
must not allow the Postal Service to fail. We have to be there 
to help them in every way. It must continue providing the 
critical services that millions of Americans depend on.
    This committee is doing its part, and this hearing is an 
important part of that work. I look forward to today's 
discussion. And, again, I thank Chairman Connolly and Ranking 
Member Hice for holding this important hearing and for their 
leadership on this critical service for America.
    I yield back my balance of time, and I look forward very, 
very much to all of the panelists' testimony today. Thank you 
so much.
    Mr. Connolly. I thank the distinguished chairwoman.
    We've introduced and sworn in the panel. Your full 
statements will be entered into the record. And I now call on 
Ms. Hull for your five minutes of testimony. Welcome.

   STATEMENT OF TAMMY WHITCOMB HULL, INSPECTOR GENERAL, U.S. 
                         POSTAL SERVICE

    Ms. Hull. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman Connolly, 
Ranking Member Hice, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you 
for inviting me here today to discuss our work related to the 
Postal Service's readiness for peak season.
    Our mission is to ensure efficiency, accountability, and 
integrity in our Nation's Postal Service, and it's a mission 
that we take very seriously. We provide oversight of the Postal 
Service throughout the year, with additional focus on times 
when America relies on the Postal Service the most, such as 
during elections and the holiday peak season.
    Our goal is to quickly identify and report problems, 
allowing the Postal Service to promptly address them and 
providing transparency to postal stakeholders. Each year, we 
review the Postal Service's readiness for the upcoming peak 
season and report on what we see.
    After the holidays, we issue a report on performance during 
peak season. Last year, the Postal Service moved to a strategy 
of maintaining more employees and facility space year-round. 
This strategy, along with hiring temporary employees and 
leasing temporary facility space, allowed successful delivery 
of more mail on time throughout the holiday season.
    We just released this year's report on the Postal Service's 
readiness for the current peak season. It plans to hire fewer 
temporary employees and lease less temporary space than last 
year. Postal management said it will still be able to provide 
timely delivery because it has more experienced employees, 
higher employee availability, increased package processing 
capacity, and an overall more stable work force. They also do 
not expect an increase in volume compared to last year.
    Because the Postal Service has a reasonable plan for peak, 
we did not issue any recommendations. We did, however, find the 
Postal Service is at risk of not being able to lease as much 
temporary facility space as planned. The Postal Service said 
acquiring temporary annexes can be difficult and space was not 
available in some locations. It will activate contingency 
plans, if needed, using tents and transferring mail to other 
postal facilities, if needed.
    Election mail processing is another focus at the OIG. This 
past September we published a report on the Postal Service's 
readiness for the 2022 midterm election. We found the Postal 
Service was generally ready, but not all postal facilities were 
compliant with election mail policies. We are wrapping up our 
review of the 2022 midterm election mail performance and will 
report on that in early 2023.
    For that work in October and early November, we conducted 
more than 800 observations at postal facilities, covering all 
50 states, Washington, DC, and Puerto Rico. This extensive 
effort is used to identify delayed election mail, determine 
compliance with policies, and evaluate service performance. 
Leveraging an OIG-engineered mobile app, we provided timely 
feedback during our field visits to the Postal Service for 
immediate action.
    In addition to our peak season and election mail efforts, 
we have other audit work that's focused on quickly recognizing 
and reporting issues for resolution throughout the year. Last 
fall, we created new audit teams that perform localized 
facility-specific reviews.
    These teams perform a cluster of audit simultaneously. 
While one team visits a mail processing plant, other teams 
visit three to four delivery units that receive mail from that 
plant. This enables us to better focus on service issues in 
specific geographic areas that span across processing and 
delivery.
    We have also begun recent work to address concerns about 
mail theft, specifically focused on checks, credit cards, and 
other sensitive documents. One reason for increased theft has 
been the Postal Service's poor management controls over arrow 
keys, the keys that are used by carriers to open collection 
boxes, parcel lockers, and cluster box units.
    In response to this concern, we increased focus on arrow 
key management during our facility visits and have recently 
started an audit on how the Postal Service is responding to 
mail theft. We have also increased our investigative work on 
this critical topic.
    Another focus of our work is the importance of mail to 
people who live in rural areas. One of our upcoming audit 
reports will evaluate how the Postal Service manages changes to 
rural routes and another will assess the Postal Service's 
oversight of its Contract Postal Units and Village Post 
Offices, which are often used in rural areas.
    We are dedicated to ensuring proper oversight of the Postal 
Service. We appreciate the opportunity to discuss our work, and 
I'm happy to answer your questions.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Carley, you are recognized for your five minutes of 
testimony.

   STATEMENT OF EDMUND A CARLEY, NATIONAL PRESIDENT, UNITED 
              POSTMASTERS AND MANAGERS OF AMERICA

    Mr. Carley. Thank you, Chairman Connolly, Ranking Member 
Hice, and members of the subcommittee. On behalf of the United 
Postmasters and Managers of America, my name is Edmund Carley, 
and I am the UPMA national president. UPMA is a management 
association representing more than 24,000 active and retired 
postmasters, managers, supervisors, and many associate members, 
clerks, carriers, mail handlers and others, who would like to 
be in postal management.
    UPMA members oversee the delivery of over 500 million 
pieces of mail every day to 163 million households and 
businesses of all sizes in the United States. On November 1, 
2021, I became the second elected national president of UPMA.
    Our organization is recognized statutorily under title 39 
of the U.S. Code. The statute directs that we consult with the 
USPS to participate directly in the planning and development of 
pay policies and schedules, fringe benefit programs, and other 
programs relating to supervisory and other managerial 
employees.
    I am committed to recruiting, engaging, and developing 
future leaders for UPMA and the Postal Service, improving UPMA 
members' work situations and helping move all postal employees 
forward as we continue to deliver for the American people.
    I want to express UPMA's strong appreciation of the work of 
this subcommittee and Congress. I cannot overstate how 
important the passage of the Postal Service Reform Act was to 
the Postal Service's ability to pivot on its path to self-
reliant stability, protecting what UPMA members rely on most: 
their postal careers and retirement.
    PSRA addressed many internal issues that hampered the post 
office in growing and planning for the future of mail delivery. 
The relief from retiree healthcare prefunding and Medicare 
integration especially has enabled a clearer financial path 
forward for the service.
    The Postal Regulatory Commission's positive actions on 
pricing flexibility have allowed the USPS to continue to see 
growth in revenues while some mail volumes continue to fall. 
The ball is now firmly in the court of the U.S. Postal Service 
leaders to further reduce costs, increase efficiencies, and 
modernize our processes, including the postal network.
    I want to highlight the extraordinary measures put in place 
by postal management and the Herculean effort by UPMA members 
and the rest of the 650,000 men and women of the Postal Service 
this past election cycle. I would point to those plans and that 
effort as a great insight into how my members will ensure that 
the 2022 peak season will be successful.
    Of course, like every business, the Postal Service faces 
real pressure to perform at the standards its customers and 
stakeholders expect. Meeting service expectations is a 
significant responsibility of postmasters.
    The USPS today would cite staffing and inflationary 
challenges across the board, but this doesn't tell the whole 
story of what my members face in their local post offices. We 
take our mission seriously, but postmasters that are short-
staffed in many areas of the country are personally delivering 
mail on some routes in order to fulfill that mission.
    In some regions, advertised vacancies get no applicants for 
many posting cycles. Labor market challenges are not unique to 
the Postal Service, but the extra security measures involved in 
hiring Federal employees does make the process more difficult. 
Sometimes when we are able to get an applicant, by the time we 
run background checks, et cetera, they may have taken other 
jobs.
    When you compound that with the retirements and the other 
separations from the service, it will not be as easy to achieve 
the stated service standards that we have. However, the Postal 
Service has weathered situations like this many times in the 
past. And UPMA members are proud of the efforts of the people 
they manage in executing on-time delivery in extraordinary 
circumstances.
    Each peak season presents unique challenges. In 2020, we 
saw delays in plants and transportation. Pandemic-related 
absences crippled the postal network.
    Now, in 2022, we see a record amount of election mail 
again. Inflation is a distraction that is eating up many of our 
resources. Private sector pay and initial benefits are enticing 
applicants away from the Postal Service. Employees seeking 
postmaster positions see long hours and difficult working 
conditions as challenges that may deter them from upward 
mobility, making it even more difficult for the Postal Service 
to attract and retain qualified managers.
    The Postal Service has historically managed to deliver for 
America despite many factors being against us. I have spoken 
personally about postal issues to many of the members of this 
crucial committee over the last decade.
    Although the philosophy of how we make those necessary 
changes might have differed, we have always agreed that a 
strong, thriving, vibrant and healthy Postal Service is 
essential for America, American democracy, the American economy 
and the Postal Service's 650,000 dedicated public servants who 
rely on USPS jobs to support their family.
    Thank you for the opportunity to share UPMA's views on the 
issues facing the United States Postal Service. I look forward 
to answering your questions.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you. Exactly on time, Mr. Carley. 
Incredible. I wish I had been today.
    Mr. Hogrogian, you are recognized for your five minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Hogrogian. Chairman Connolly----
    Mr. Connolly. Excuse me, of testimony.

 STATEMENT OF PAUL V. HOGROGIAN, NATIONAL PRESIDENT, NATIONAL 
                   POSTAL MAIL HANDLERS UNION

    Mr. Hogrogian. Chairman Connolly, Ranking Member Hice, 
members of the subcommittee and honored guests, my name is Paul 
Hogrogian, and I am the national president of the National 
Postal Mail Handlers Union, a position that I have held since 
2015. Previously, I served on the union's National Executive 
Board and as local president for the New York metropolitan 
area.
    I started my career with the Postal Service in 1971 as a 
casual letter carrier in my hometown of Dumont, New Jersey. I 
later became a distribution clerk in Hackensack, New Jersey, 
before becoming a mail handler in 1976 at what now is called 
the New Jersey NDC in Jersey City, New Jersey.
    Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the performance of 
the Postal Service during peak season. The NPMHU serves as the 
exclusive bargaining representative for over 50,000 mail 
handlers employed by the United States Postal Service.
    Mail handlers are an essential part of the mail processing 
network as we move billions of pieces of mail each year. Our 
members work in all of the Nation's large postal plants and are 
responsible for loading and unloading trucks, transporting mail 
within the facility, and operating machinery and automated 
equipment in addition to many other functions. Mail handlers 
are generally the first and the last employees to handle the 
mail as it comes to, goes through, and leaves most postal 
plants.
    The peak season is considered to take place from November 
to January each calendar year and is driven mostly by holidays 
and gift giving among family and friends. The Postal Service 
has seen a sharp increase in parcel mail caused mostly by the 
growth of e-commerce.
    The increase in volume required an increase in hiring 
temporary noncareer employees as well as acquiring additional 
physical space for parcels and installing more sorting machines 
for processing that mail.
    Recent increases in personnel and property can be 
attributed to the need to overcome staffing issues that arose 
during the 2020 calendar year peak season, mostly caused by the 
COVID-19 pandemic. By the end of the 2020 peak season, there 
were over 11,500 postal employees reported as infected with 
COVID-19, almost 3,000 of whom were mail handlers. Even with 
the best efforts taken by the Postal Service to meet the 
demands of peak season, it was difficult to overcome the 
personnel shortages caused by medical necessity.
    The Postal Service remains one of the best and most trusted 
Federal agencies. The Postal Service is enshrined in the 
Constitution, and mail handlers and all postal workers take 
their mission to deliver mail to every address in America 
seriously and with great pride.
    Additionally, since 2020, we have seen the peak season 
begin earlier each election year as more and more eligible 
voters turn to vote-by-mail initiatives to take part in the 
democratic process. At least 21 states allow for ballots to be 
mailed to eligible voters 45 days or more before each election. 
And the Postal Service now begins to deliver millions of 
ballots to voters each election year by the end of September.
    To answer the subcommittee's question, yes, the Postal 
Service is ready for the holiday rush expected during the 2022 
peak season. The Postal Service has hired 28,000 seasonal 
employees, leased 52 peak season annexes, and installed 249 new 
package processing machines across the Nation. We have the 
people, we have the equipment, and we have the space available 
to get the job done.
    I thank the chairman, the ranking member, and the members 
of the subcommittee for their time today to address these 
important issues. The Mail Handlers Union looks forward to our 
continued work together to promote a sustainable Postal Service 
for the American people. I am ready to answer questions that 
you may have. Thank you.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Hogrogian.
    Mr. Plunkett, you are recognized for your five minutes of 
testimony.

 STATEMENT OF MICHAEL PLUNKETT, PRESIDENT AND CEO, ASSOCIATION 
                      FOR POSTAL COMMERCE

    Mr. Plunkett. Good afternoon, Chairman Connolly, Ranking 
Member Hice, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to speak with you today about the Postal Service's 
readiness for the upcoming peak season.
    I'm here today on behalf of the Association for Postal 
Commerce, better known as PostCom. Our members are world-class 
organizations in financial services, healthcare, 
telecommunications, logistics, mail production technology and 
shipping. This diverse group is united in its reliance on the 
Postal Service and is committed to ensuring that reliable, 
affordable postal services remain available to all U.S. 
businesses and citizens.
    Just over two years ago, I appeared before this 
subcommittee to discuss the state of the postal system and 
priorities for ensuring its continued viability. Shortly 
thereafter, unprecedented demand for shipping services 
overwhelmed delivery networks in the United States, including 
the Postal Service. That surge eventually hobbled the USPS 
network in December 2020.
    Two years later, there has been a remarkable turnaround. 
Today, I'm happy to report that postal management has made 
tremendous strides in stabilizing its network and in expanding 
peak capacity. The 2021 peak season was a significant 
improvement over the previous year, and our members anticipate, 
with very limited exceptions that I address in my written 
testimony, that the Postal Service will successfully navigate 
the upcoming peak season.
    The change in the Postal Service's financial status has 
been equally remarkable. Thanks to continued demand for 
shipping, the Inflation Reduction Act, the CARES Act, and, most 
importantly, the Postal Service Reform Act, the Postal 
Service's balance sheet has improved dramatically.
    The future, though, is perhaps less clear. The Postal 
Service is preparing for an extensive reconfiguration of its 
network over the next five years as part of its Delivering for 
America plan. We agree that modernization of the postal system 
is overdue and necessary for the Postal Service to remain an 
efficient and affordable provider of delivery services for the 
entire Nation.
    PostCom's members are equally certain that the best way to 
ensure that a revamped postal network can meet the needs of its 
customers is by communicating and collaborating with the 
customers and business partners who rely on and pay for 
universal delivery service.
    We have asked for and will continue to urge the Postal 
Service to be more forthcoming with its modernization and 
deployment plans to optimize the complementary capabilities of 
the Postal Service and its business partners.
    Now, network modernization aside, the affordability of mail 
is increasingly concerning. In January, postage rates will 
increase for the fourth time in two years. When that increase 
takes effect, some products will be experiencing cumulative 
rate increases nearing 50 percent in just over 2 years. The 
most recent increase was approved by the Governors of the 
Postal Service just weeks after the previous rate increase took 
effect. In effect, the Governors have approved aggressive 
compounding of rate increases without any data on how 
unprecedented rate increases are impacting customers.
    Further, at the most recent Board of Governors meeting, the 
Postal Service was clear that it will continue, quote, ``taking 
price,'' unquote, even as market-dominant volumes are driven 
from the system. At that same meeting, the Postal Service 
revealed that it would not meet its projected break-even target 
for 2023, despite record revenues and a projected volume loss 
of 6.4 billion pieces in that year.
    The Postal Service has called for the Biden administration 
to revisit the Postal Service's Civil Service Retirement System 
obligations to relieve some financial pressure.
    PostCom agrees that the administration and Congress should 
consider all possible remedies to reduce these inequities to 
bolster the Postal Service and protect ratepayers. That will 
not be sufficient. PostCom has already petitioned the Postal 
Regulatory Commission, which enabled the unprecedented rate 
increases over the last two years, to revisit its regulations, 
given the Postal Service's recent good fortune. PostCom 
appreciates that Chairman Connolly has proposed legislation 
that would require the PRC to do the same. Without some check 
on these anomalous and excessive rate increases, our members 
are concerned that mail volume declines will accelerate to 
dangerous levels.
    PostCom's members rely on the Postal Service to deliver 
magazines, medications, bills and statements, catalogs and 
essential communications. We are at the center of a mailing 
industry that employs millions of Americans, providing jobs in 
every state and accounting for more than a trillion dollars in 
annual revenues.
    As this committee considers the Postal Service's readiness 
to meet peak season service commitments, we caution that, 
despite significant recent improvements, sustained punitive 
rate increases present an existential threat to the continued 
viability of the Postal Service.
    Mailers are prepared to pay their fair share but should not 
be required to shoulder the entire burden of sustaining 
universal service during these challenging times. Thank you.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Plunkett.
    Mr. White, you are recognized. I believe this is your first 
time before Congress, so we'll go easy.

 STATEMENT OF GREGORY T. WHITE, EXECUTIVE MANAGER OF STRATEGIC 
                INITIATIVES, U.S. POSTAL SERVICE

    Mr. White. Thank you.
    Mr. Connolly. Welcome.
    Mr. White. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chair Connolly, 
Ranking Member Hice, and members of the subcommittee. My name 
is Gregory White, and I am the Postal Service's executive 
manager of strategic initiatives. In this role, I'm responsible 
for assisting with the development and execution of the 
Delivering for America plan within the Office of the Postmaster 
General.
    I appreciate the opportunity to discuss how the Postal 
Service has engaged in months of preparation and planning for 
the peak holiday season at all levels of the organization. 
Specifically, I will detail our ongoing and robust hiring 
campaign, improvements to our processing capacity, facility 
acquisitions, optimization of our vehicle fleet, and 
implementation of new technology to expedite processing and 
delivery.
    Most importantly, service performance remains strong 
throughout the country. Service performance is better now than 
the same period for 2020 and 2021. The average time for 
delivery of a mail piece or package across the postal network 
is just 2.5 days.
    Our service and operational improvements were demonstrated 
in the COVID-19 test kit fulfillment program, which required 
the expanding of inventory management systems, establishing 48 
fulfillment centers to pack, label, and ship test kits, and 
ensuring timely delivery to homes across America. The program 
saw 680 million test kits packaged and shipped, with 96.4 
percent of test kits being delivered on time with an average 
delivery time of just 1.2 days.
    As service holds steady throughout the Nation, the Postal 
Service continues preparation for the holidays, including 
investments and improvements to operational precision.
    As relates to staffing, we are actively hiring 20,000 
seasonal employees. Beyond that, as part of the Delivering for 
America plan, we have deployed strategies to stabilize our work 
force. The Postal Service has converted more than 100,000 
employees from part-time to full-time career positions over the 
last two years, 41,000 of those conversions since January of 
this year.
    Employee availability has improved. Supervisor vacancies 
have been significantly reduced. The combination of experienced 
career staff and robust seasonal hiring is powerful.
    In addition, as part of the $40 billion in Delivering for 
America investments, we have added new package processing 
equipment. We have installed 249 new package processing 
machines across the Nation since the launch of the Delivering 
for America plan.
    Paired with operational precision improvements, the Postal 
Service is expanding its processing capacity to nearly 60 
million packages every day this holiday season. Expedited 
sortation will enable prompt and reliable mail delivery by 
ensuring an integrated and efficient flow of all products into 
and out of our processing facilities.
    The Postal Service has also signed multiyear leases on peak 
season annexes and processing facilities, which added 8.5 
million square feet to our footprint. These facilities are 
strategically located throughout the country to augment space 
shortages at existing postal sites.
    We are not the organization we were two years ago during 
the challenging 2020 peak season amidst a global pandemic. 
While headwinds remain, we are now structured for precision. We 
are an organization better positioned to meet the country's 
evolving mailing and shipping needs, working to do so in a 
financially self-supporting manner.
    The Postal Service is prepared to deliver a successful 
holiday for the American public. I want to thank the dedicated 
men and women of the organization. A successful peak is not 
possible without the hard work and commitment of our employees.
    Thank you, Chair Connolly, Ranking Member Hice, and members 
of the subcommittee, for the opportunity to speak today. I 
welcome any questions that you and the subcommittee may have.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. White. See, that didn't go so 
bad. All right. All right.
    The distinguished chairwoman of the committee, full 
committee, Mrs. Maloney, is recognized for her five minutes of 
questioning.
    Mrs. Maloney. Thank you, Chairman Connolly and Ranking 
Member Hice, for holding this important and very timely 
hearing. And I want to really talk about mail-in ballots, 
really. In New York and across the country, people really 
turned to mail-in ballots. It's more convenient, particularly 
during COVID.
    And this past week showed once again the vital role that 
the Postal Service plays as millions of Americans cast their 
ballots through the mail. And what's more important than an 
honest and fair election?
    To accommodate voters' growing interest in vote by mail, 
the Postal Service's IG has recommended the creation of a 
separate simplified mail product exclusively for election mail 
for Federal elections. This product would support uniform mail 
processing and have standards of reliability, honesty, and 
transparency.
    I responded to the IG's recommendation by introducing the 
Vote by Mail Tracking Act. Right now, we can put a barcode on a 
package and track it all around the world. Why can't we put a 
bar code on a mail-in ballot and track it from the voter's 
hands to the election office. The bill would require that all 
mail-in ballots include a barcode and are easier to sort and 
track. Our committee will mark up this bill tomorrow, and I 
hope it can be enacted into law this year. This bill needs to 
be bipartisan because what is more bipartisan and really--and 
we all have a stake in honest and fair elections.
    So I would like to ask Mr. White--Ms. White--no, Mr. White 
right over here, what progress has the Postal Service made on 
developing a simplified uniform product for election mail, as 
the IG has recommended?
    Mr. White. I am not an expert on election mail. That is 
outside of my area of responsibility.
    Mrs. Maloney. Can you get back to us in writing after you 
have looked at that?
    Mr. White. Absolutely, we will.
    Mrs. Maloney. OK. Ms. Hull, do you agree with my 
assessment, and how would products like those envisioned in my 
legislation improve tracking and delivery of election mail?
    Ms. Hull. Yes. As you mentioned, we made that 
recommendation in 2020 because it was--we saw how important the 
Postal Service became in that critical election and continues 
to be in this midterm.
    We just looked at the midterm readiness. And, as we looked 
at that, we looked at where the Postal Service was involved in 
the primary elections. We did visitations and found that the 
Postal Service rate of being able to track mail with barcodes 
had improved from about 53 percent in the 2020 election to 83 
percent in this past primary season for a midterm.
    So it really gives a great tool to track where those 
ballots are in the system if barcodes are included. The 
challenge because of, as you know, the number of election 
offices that are involved in preparing ballots, and the Postal 
Service is, obviously, not in control of all that. So I 
appreciate the efforts in your legislation to make those 
improvements.
    Mrs. Maloney. Well, I'd like to ask our other witnesses 
that have a stake in the whole system, Mr. Edmund Carley, the 
national president of United Postmasters and Managers of 
America, could you comment on the legislation in writing or now 
if you'd like?
    Mr. Carley. Well, I'm interested in the product. The post 
office, where I'm postmaster since 2008, is a county seat. So I 
work very closely with the election officials, and there is no 
standardized product for mail-in ballots.
    You know, we do extraordinary measures. I mentioned it in 
my comments. Postmasters going in on the Sunday before the 
election, when we don't normally do collections out of blue 
boxes we went in and collected blue boxes to get that and make 
sure that mail got in on Monday to get delivered for the 
election. And we go above and beyond. So I'm very interested in 
a specific product that we could then market to the county 
seats and the people that do the actual elections, because it's 
all different.
    Mrs. Maloney. Thank you.
    Mr. Hogrogian, who happens to be a constituent, welcome to 
the subcommittee.
    Mr. Hogrogian. Thank you. And thank you, Madam Chairwoman 
and the chairman, for all your help, and all the committee, for 
all your help during postal reform. And from all our members, 
thank all of you. And like New York, thank all of yous.
    To answer your question, I'm not an expert on ballot 
design, but if it makes it more efficient to process it, I'm 
all in favor of it. But that being said, no matter how you mail 
the ballot, you mail it, we'll move it. So----
    Mrs. Maloney. That's good to hear.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Hogrogian. The gentlelady's 
time has expired.
    Mrs. Maloney. May I ask Mr. Plunkett and anyone else on the 
panel to answer in writing, Mr. Chairman, because we don't have 
time?
    Mr. Connolly. Without objection. Absolutely.
    Mr. Plunkett. I'd be happy to do so.
    Mr. Connolly. Absolutely. Thank you.
    Mr. Hice, you are recognized for your five minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Hice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. White, let me begin with you. Just in real simple 
explanation, what is the primary mission of the Postal Service?
    Mr. White. The primary mission of the Postal Service is to 
deliver mail and packages to 163 million addresses six days a 
week in a financially self-staining manner.
    Mr. Hice. So what's a bit baffling to me, as you well know, 
Democrats actually introduced legislation to have the Postal 
Service offer financial services, including making loans and 
offering checking accounts.
    Does the Postal Service have any expertise in offering 
financial services?
    Mr. White. I do not focus on policy or regulatory 
decisions. This----
    Mr. Hice. That's not my question. Does the Postal Service 
have any expertise in offering financial services?
    Mr. White. I can speak that I personally do not and do not 
know of representatives close to me with that expertise, but, 
again, I am focused on peak season and our peak season success.
    Mr. Hice. OK. The mission, as you said, is to deliver mail 
and packages. And my question is, is there any expertise in 
offering financial services? That's kind of a yes-or-no answer.
    Mr. White. I do not know the answer to that question.
    Mr. Hice. OK. Well, I feel pretty confident that I know the 
answer to that question, and I believe the vast majority of 
Americans do as well.
    Would offering financial services distract the Postal 
Service from its mission?
    Mr. White. I appreciate the question, but we will follow 
the mission. That mission currently states that we will deliver 
to 163 million applicants.
    Mr. Hice. OK. I see your refusal to answer.
    Let me ask you another question. The Democrats recently 
gave the Postal Service $3 billion for electric vehicles 
through the Inflation Reduction Act, and also they said the 
Postal Service should provide charging stations to the general 
public.
    Is it part of the mission or the duty or responsibility of 
the Postal Service to offer charging stations to the public?
    Mr. White. I will state again, our mission is to deliver to 
163 million addresses----
    Mr. Hice. So would you say your mission is not to offer 
charging stations?
    Mr. White. I think we will follow the policy guidance 
that----
    Mr. Hice. That's not my question, Mr. White.
    Is it the mission of the Postal Service to offer charging 
stations to the American public?
    Mr. White. The mission of the Postal Service is to deliver 
to 163 million addresses six days a week in a financially self-
sustaining manner. That is the mission of the Postal Service.
    Mr. Hice. All right. So that mission does not include 
charging stations or financial services. Is that correct?
    Mr. White. The mission is to deliver. We will deliver. That 
is the mission.
    Mr. Hice. OK. So the mission, as you've stated several 
times, does not include financial services or charging 
stations. Is that correct?
    Mr. White. Again, the mission is to deliver to 163 million 
addresses six days per week in a financially self-sustaining 
manner.
    Mr. Hice. OK. You're doing a good job of avoiding the 
question, but we all know the answer. You've stated the mission 
over and over, and it does not include financial services or 
some of these other things, which would absolutely distract and 
hinder the Postal Service from doing its job.
    Ms. Hull brought up a while ago another concern that we all 
have and see and that is crime, postal theft. So let me just 
ask you this: Are you seeing, in relation to postal theft, the 
Department of Justice aggressively prosecuting postal crimes?
    Mr. White. The Inspection Service is the law enforcement 
arm of the Postal Service. They are the experts on matters 
related to mail security and employee security. I would have to 
refer questions to the Inspection Service. I will be happy to 
work with them to provide an answer for the record following 
this.
    Mr. Hice. So you're not aware of the Justice Department 
being involved?
    Mr. White. The Inspection Service is the arm of the----
    Mr. Hice. Will you find the answer to that, and would you 
commit to providing this committee with data regarding the 
number of crimes that have been referred to the Department of 
Justice?
    Mr. White. We will provide an answer back for the record.
    Mr. Hice. OK. Thank you very much.
    I see my team has expired. I yield back.
    Mr. Connolly. I thank the gentleman.
    And I would note that at our hearing in Philadelphia, this 
issue came up. And there is growing concern about, A, the rules 
of engagement in terms of pursuing crime off postal property 
and, second, the shrinkage of the postal police force at a time 
when crime, as the gentleman suggests, is actually going up. So 
you might add that to your response back as well.
    Mrs. Lawrence, you're recognized for your five minutes of 
questioning.
    Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you so much.
    I often remind the committee of my 30 years of service with 
the Postal Service, which few people recognize, and this panel 
and this committee are uniquely aware of the complexity, the 
multiple levels of responsibility and expectations that is 
placed on the organization.
    On February 22, 1921, Frank Yager set out to prove that 
mail could be flown from coast to coast in record time. By 
flying night and day, he made it from San Francisco to New York 
in 33 hours and 20 minutes, a third of the time it would take 
by train.
    Today, a century later, we have moved backward. It takes 
the Postal Service more than 120 hours to deliver mail the same 
distance, almost four times as long. That's because under the 
plan of our current Postmaster DeJoy, he ordered the Postal 
Service to reduce the amount of mail transported by air. Today, 
people are more reliant than ever on the Postal Service to 
deliver medicine, ballots, holiday gifts, and other goods.
    The Postal Service, however, has slowed down its delivery 
standard--service standard from 2 to 3 days to 2 to 5 and for 
up to 40 percent of the first-class mail packages.
    Mr. Plunkett, how has this new decision to reduce delivery 
standards' decision change affected your members and your 
businesses and their businesses?
    Mr. Plunkett. PostCom does have members that use commercial 
first class and periodicals class in their business, and in 
both cases, the reduction in service standards has reduced the 
quality of those products and reduced their value.
    And in some cases, specifically with regard to bills and 
statements, some of our members operate in regulated industries 
where adding a day or two onto delivery times can create 
significant regulatory and compliance challenges.
    So when the Postal Service sought their change in service 
standards, we filed comments with the Postal Regulatory 
Commission opposing those changes, and were dismayed that the 
Postal Service chose to go forward with them despite a negative 
report by the Postal Regulatory Commission.
    Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you. And as it was stated earlier, 
we're not a business, we're a service.
    The Postal Service is also rapidly increasing its rates. If 
you look at the--at the screen, you'll see the tables showing 
rate increases for mail and packages since August 2020. And we 
know that when we increase costs, everyone's talking about how 
much it costs to exist now as an American.
    Mr. Plunkett, again, what will happen to your members' 
businesses if rates continue to increase at an uncomfortable 
rate?
    Mr. Plunkett. It really depends on the product that they 
use. For users of first-class mail, they will undoubtedly end 
up redoubling their efforts to convince their customers to 
adopt electronic bill presentment and payment because mail 
becomes increasingly uneconomical as the rates rise.
    In the case of senders of marketing mail, they will cut 
back on the volumes that they send. They will have to have 
smaller campaigns or reduce frequency because mail becomes less 
competitive relative to other advertising media as rates 
continue to rise.
    So in both cases we expect to see reductions in mail volume 
in response to the rate increases.
    Mrs. Lawrence. So this is a question for Ms. Hull. Has the 
OIG examined or do you have plans to examine the effects of the 
10-year plan on the Postal Service financial condition and 
service delivery, hearing that there are options to all of our 
customers?
    And as they continue to reduce the mail volume, which I 
worked there at a time where we literally, during the holidays, 
it was all hands-on deck. It was a force and just mounds of 
mail. As people start using electronic systems and other 
options, what is that impact on the Postal Service, and have we 
included that in the 10-year plan?
    Ms. Hull. Yes. We're paying close attention to how the 
Postal Service implements the Delivering for America plan. And 
we are looking at how service and, if there are declines in 
service, how they might impact that. We also look at the 
financial impacts of the 10-year plan and likely will be 
looking at volume impacts as well as we move forward.
    Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you.
    My time has expired. I yield back.
    Mr. Connolly. I thank the gentlelady.
    Mr. Hice. Mr. Chairman, may I ask you a question before we 
go to Mr. Keller?
    Mr. Connolly. Yes.
    Mr. Hice. Just in light of the comments that you made 
between the questioning, I have a question as well. Obviously, 
the postal police perhaps may be an issue but to get them would 
requires more training, and they go beyond the postal facility 
and this, that, and the other. Prosecution seems like a good 
method.
    But we asked Mr. White earlier, and I want to ask you if we 
can expand this, that we also get a strategic plan from the 
Postal Service as to antitheft strategies and also a timeline 
to get that.
    Mr. Connolly. Absolutely.
    Mr. Hice. I think that would go to you.
    Mr. Connolly. Absolutely. And it would be very consistent 
with the hearing we had in Philadelphia where that----
    Mr. Hice. OK.
    Mr. Connolly [continuing]. Issue was front and center.
    Mr. Hice. Mr. White, if you will.
    Mr. Connolly. I would echo the ranking member's request.
    Thank you, Mr. Hice.
    Mr. Keller is recognized for his five minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Keller. Thank you. And I thank all the witnesses for 
being here today.
    And I know it's been mentioned that the Postal Service is a 
service and not a business. Prior to coming to Congress and 
being elected office at the state level, I was--I was in 
private industry, and we provided a service. That's what 
businesses do. That's what enterprises do. So you can call it 
whatever you want. They've got to be effective and efficient to 
be able to do it, and they'll have to have the tools to do 
that.
    So I just want to--you know, one of the things that I 
always looked at is, if you tell me how you're going to manage 
me, I'll tell you how I'm going to perform. And that's what the 
Postal Service needs is clear performance metrics. And I think 
under Postmaster General DeJoy, we've seen some of that.
    You know, we're here to provide oversight. And I heard it 
said today, Congress is going to ensure the USPS will perform. 
Well, we witnessed today we can't even start a hearing on time 
with somebody here to take a roll call vote, OK, and we're here 
to try and beat up on the post office. I'm not here to do that. 
I'm simply here to say that there are things that I looked at.
    And, Ms. Hull, I want to--appreciate you had--you had sent 
me the report on the preparedness. In looking at these things, 
you know, I just would say--and according to your assessment, 
do you believe the Postal Service is capable of executing its 
plan for the upcoming peak season? I mean, do you think they 
can do that? I gathered from this they're ready, but----
    Ms. Hull. Yes. I think one of the things that we saw that 
will really help them out, I think, is the deployment of 
additional package processing equipment. Packages kind of jam 
up. They're great, and the volume is important and the revenue 
is important, but they're challenging to move. So more 
automation in that area and more focus in that is going to be 
really helpful.
    Mr. Keller. Well, I guess I'd ask a question. I mean, we're 
talking about handling packages, and I know there's other 
places that handle packages that aren't the Postal Service. 
Have we looked at how they do it to look for like a benchmark 
or a best practice on how we do that?
    Ms. Hull. Yes. We benchmark against private sector delivery 
companies all the time in our work, and the Postal Service does 
as well.
    Mr. Keller. Yes. And had we not bailed out some pensions, 
and they had to charge a true cost for what they had to cover 
their services, we might be a little more competitive too. I'm 
just going to say that.
    The other thing I would like to talk about, Mr. Plunkett, 
you talked about rate increases.
    Mr. Plunkett. Yes.
    Mr. Keller. I guess--I guess--and when we look at 
delivering any service, it takes energy to do that, right?
    Mr. Plunkett. Absolutely.
    Mr. Keller. So--and actually you mentioned that.
    I'm going to go back to Ms. Hull or Mr. White. How much of 
the increase or how much of increase have we seen in fuel for 
the Postal Service to be able to execute its mission and 
deliver the mail? Do we know that? Do we have an answer how 
much more we're spending for fuel than we did two years ago to 
accomplish the same mission?
    Ms. Hull. I don't have that answer.
    Mr. Keller. Can somebody get that for us, please? Because, 
quite frankly, here we are. We're politicians, right? And in 
some cases, when we look at the Federal Government, some people 
in the government couldn't run a good one-dog dog show and they 
want to try and tell you how to run the Postal Service. OK.
    I have experience at running things. I ran a $50 million a 
year budget before I got elected to office. Right? And we had 
to be effective and efficient.
    So I'd like to be able to see what that is, because we have 
politicians that are talking about all kinds of things that 
have increased fuel costs. And now they're griping at you 
because things that they have done, the Inflation Reduction Act 
placed on you and shutting down American energy, now they're 
griping at you because you have to raise prices. What did they 
think was going to happen when you have a 40-year-high 
inflation?
    The Postal Service isn't going to--isn't affected by--I 
mean, you're affected by decisions that the White House makes 
or that Congress makes when it regards energy policy, aren't 
you?
    I think we'd all agree the answer is yes.
    So here we have a bunch of people that can't start a 
meeting on time, don't have the people here to take a roll 
call, make you wait, cause inflation, and then want to bang on 
you and tell you you can't run things properly and bang on the 
Postmaster General. I don't--I just don't think that's fair, 
quite frankly. You know, so I look at those things.
    And it goes back to the banking, you know. You know, I 
don't--does the post office do any kind of assessment on the 
services its customers are looking for? I mean, do you have 
people coming to you, saying that I want the post office to do 
banking or I want the post office to provide electric charging 
stations? I mean, have you--is the post office aware of any of 
their customers? Because that's what they are. They're 
customers. In a business you have customers. That's--are you 
aware of any of that, Mr. White or Ms. Hull?
    Ms. Hull. We've done some work in the past on ways to use 
the retail infrastructure, and we can provide some of that. I 
don't have the----
    Mr. Keller. So nobody's come to you and said, you know 
what, I really wish you had a bank here that I could write 
checks or you'd handle my investments or you had a place I 
could plug in my vehicle. That's not your job.
    Ms. Hull. We did focus group kind of activities as a part 
of that, so--but I'm not aware of those two things coming up as 
part of the----
    Mr. Keller. Like I said, I think we should let the post 
office get back to its mission and stop trying--when we as the 
body have trouble running things here, telling you how to do 
things.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    Mr. Connolly. The gentleman's time has expired.
    The gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Raskin, is recognized.
    The gentlewoman from Ohio, Ms. Brown, is recognized for her 
five minutes.
    Ms. Brown. Thank you, Chairman Connolly.
    Mr. Connolly. You're welcome.
    Ms. Brown. Thank you for holding this timely hearing as the 
Postal Service prepares for the annual holiday rush.
    Throughout this Congress, this committee has held several 
hearings, including some field hearings, focused on Postal 
Service performance and ways to support the agency.
    Based on historical trends, the holiday season results in 
an increase in gifts, greeting cards, and other seasonal mail.
    So if you'll look at the screen, you will see that the 
Postal Service's--sorry--preparation for the upcoming holiday 
season including converting 10,000 pre-career employees into 
career employees, hiring 20,000 temporary employees, installing 
50 new package processing machines, and leasing 17 additional 
mail processing facilities.
    Like many others, my constituents in Ohio depend on the 
Postal Service to deliver important items like medicine, 
unemployment benefits, and Social Security checks. So my 
question to all of the witnesses is: Does the Postal Service 
have the right staff, equipment, and facilities in place to get 
mail and packages delivered on time throughout the upcoming 
holiday season?
    Mr. Hogrogian. I guess I'll give it a shot.
    Yes, I believe we do. Earlier--we started preparations for 
peak season earlier this year than we ever have in the past. We 
started maybe in July. I can only speak for my union, the 
National Postal Mail Handlers Union, that we entered into a 
memorandum of understanding with the Postal Service where we 
agreed to convert 2,700 temporary employees to full-time career 
status.
    And we also agreed--there's eight weeks during the year 
where the Postal Service contractually can exceed the 24.5 
percent percentage of our temporary employees. And what has 
been happening, the Postal Service in the past has been using 
two to three of those weeks to just hire the people and get 
them onboard. So we reached an agreement to allow them to start 
an extra two weeks where they can hire people to put them 
onboard.
    Now that being said, they have hired additional--they 
replaced the ones they converted and hired an additional, I was 
told, 28,000. But if it's 20,000, that is correct. I was told 
that they did hire, in fact, 20,000 people.
    And that being said, our regular work force is ready, 
willing, and able to work any overtime that we're asked to do.
    So in answer to your question, yes, I think they are 
properly staffed to address the peak season this year.
    Mr. White. I would also like to speak to this. The Postal 
Service is absolutely ready for this holiday season.
    I appreciate some of the stats that you pulled up on the 
screen. I will speak more broadly. Over the last two years, we 
have converted over 100,000 part-time employees into full-time 
employees. We have leased 8.5 million square feet of multiyear 
annexes, so not just specific to one or two months but 
something we can upfit over the course of the year to ensure 
that we are ready for the December month.
    And then our employee availability has improved. Supervisor 
vacancies have gone done. From a staffing standpoint we are 
ready. From a facilities standpoint we are ready. And from an 
equipment standpoint, we have installed 249 package sorters, 
again, since March 2021. So we did 112 last year, another 137 
this year. We are moving packages at a much faster rate than we 
were at this time last year. We are very confident as we move 
forward into the holidays.
    Mr. Plunkett. If I could add to that, the Postal Service's 
customers fully expect a successful peak season. They have 
added capacity necessary to meet the increased demand, and they 
seem to have a solid plan in place.
    Because the Postal Service operates in virtually every 
community in the U.S., we fully expect there might be local 
instances of outages because of weather events or perhaps 
localized employee shortages, and hope that the Postal Service 
is able to communicate effectively when those inevitable things 
do happen. But in no way should anyone anticipate any kind of 
systemic problems like we had two years ago.
    Ms. Brown. Thank you.
    Ms. Hull. Our audit work also indicated the Postal Service 
was ready and had a reasonable plan and contingency plans 
around any issues that they--came up during the peak season.
    Mr. Carley. And speaking as a Postmaster, I actually 
delivered mail last New Year's Eve and during peak.
    The question was: Do we have the right staff, equipment, 
and facilities? Equipment and facilities are things. They don't 
really move the mail. People move the mail, and we never have 
enough people. I've been here 25 years, but we manage.
    We manage. We move people around. People work overtime. 
People do extraordinary things. It's a continuum. We've hired 
in the last couple of years over 400,000 people, and we 
continue to hire. So I don't think that I'm ever fully staffed. 
So we're always working, but we will deliver. It will be a 
successful season, I'm sure.
    Ms. Brown. Well, thank you for that.
    I think I can say this: People across the country are 
counting on the Postal Service, especially during the holiday 
season. And my hope is that the Postal Service will be able to 
maintain on-time delivery performance. I look forward to 
working with you and my colleagues to ensure that the Postal 
Service continues to provide an excellent customer experience.
    So thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, with that, I yield back.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Ms. Brown. And thank you for your 
faithfulness as a member of this subcommittee. We really 
appreciate it.
    Mr. Pascrell, the gentleman from New York, is recognized.
    Counsel. New Jersey.
    Mr. Connolly. What did I say?
    Counsel. You said New York.
    Mr. Connolly. I meant New Jersey. Sorry.
    Mr. Hogrogian, that accent. I'm sorry.
    Mr. Hogrogian. I'm from New Jersey too. All right?
    Mr. Connolly. Originally?
    Mr. Hogrogian. I was born in New York.
    Mr. Connolly. Yes, see. I knew it.
    Mr. Pascrell from New Jersey is recognized.
    Mr. Pascrell. That's a big mistake, Mr. Connolly. We'll 
discuss that later.
    Good afternoon. I'm honored to be here today.
    And I want to thank all the panel. I thought you were 
excellent, on target. I'm thrilled to see my friend, the Garden 
State's own Paul Hogrogian, who's long been a tremendous leader 
for our mail handlers.
    We've tried to get substantive postal reform done for over 
a decade, at least. We finally passed the Postal Service Reform 
Act into law this year. I thought it was a major victory for 
the Congress. Our reforms will free up, I think, a lot of 
money. We finally got rid of the prefunding anchor 
strangulation, which should have been done and could have been 
done 10 years ago.
    But to help our Postal Service flourish, I think we have to 
think bigger and bolder. There must be affordable, fast, and 
reliable mail first and foremost. I know that's what all of you 
want. The current Postmaster General, I don't think has done--
put together a good plan for the post office's future.
    Our post office is a public utility. We cannot sacrifice 
the timely delivery of mail. We must also ensure our postal 
workers have the benefits, the compensation, and the support to 
thrive. I stand by that statement. Postal employees don't 
receive locality pay. Postal workers in Manhattan, Kansas, and 
Manhattan, New York, are paid the same wage.
    The Postal Service has struggled to hire workers for the 
peak season. Without locality pay, the post office can't 
compete in areas with higher cost of living, like where I live 
in North Jersey.
    Mr. Hogrogian, why doesn't postal leadership raise wages 
for workers in high cost of living areas? How important is this 
change to a state like New Jersey?
    Mr. Hogrogian. Well, that's a--that's an interesting 
question, Congressman. And it seems very simplistic. Yes, I 
believe people in the New York metropolitan area and other 
high-cost areas should get more money and make more because 
they live in a higher cost of living area.
    But that's very simplistic. I represent the entire country. 
I represent people in New York and Mississippi and other where 
the places aren't as cost--the cost of living isn't as high.
    Now, I'm fine if you want to pay them more money. How are 
you going to pay for it? I mean, I know what the post office is 
going to do. OK. They'll give you more in San Francisco, but 
they'll cut it somewhere else. But if somehow we can get the 
money to pay them more, fine with me.
    Mr. Pascrell. Do you--Tammy Hull, Hull, over the past four 
years, the Postal Service has struggled mightily during the 
holiday season. Haphazard leadership, pandemic staffing 
shortages led to unprecedented slowdowns.
    This is our first holiday season with Mr.--with the 
postmaster. His plan to slow down first-class mail and some 
packages implemented. This is when it's going to be 
implemented. The Postal Regulatory Commission blasted the 
United States Postal Service for failing to adequately research 
this misguided overhaul.
    Ms. Hull, is your office committed to providing rigorous 
oversight and timely and transparent reporting on the impact of 
these operational and staffing changes during the upcoming peak 
season?
    Ms. Hull. Yes, sir, we are.
    Mr. Pascrell. Thank you.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Connolly. I thank the gentleman from New Jersey for his 
insightful questioning. Thank you.
    Before I call on Mr. Davis, the gentleman from Illinois, I 
would ask unanimous consent. Mr. Hice and others have raised 
the question of what is the role, if any, of the Postal Service 
with respect to financial services and providing financial 
services to customers. The fact is, actually, there is a 
history of providing certain financial services.
    And I would simply ask that the report of the inspector 
general went back to 2015, simply laying out what are those 
options, if any, with respect to the future of financial 
services of the postal office be entered into the record at 
this point.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    Mr. Connolly. Mr. Davis, the gentleman from Illinois, is 
recognized for his five minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And let me thank you 
for not only calling this hearing, but let me thank all of the 
witnesses for being here and sharing their testimoneys with us.
    I've always had a great deal of interest in the Postal 
Service since I started work. It was my first real job, and I 
enjoyed it. As a matter of fact, we enjoyed it. The pay was 
good, not as good as it should have been, could have been. But 
there were tremendous opportunities. I was young and healthy 
and had a lot of energy, so I worked as much overtime as I 
could get.
    Then after working for about a year and a half, I took 
another job, but I also continued to work part time. They had 
what they called short hours at the time. So that interest and 
that affinity for the Postal Service has lasted. As a matter of 
fact, we had a motto we used to use where I worked. ``Clean 
hands, gentle touch. Surely we owe a letter that much.'' And 
we'd joke and do our work.
    But during every peak season, the Postal Service hires a 
large number of temporary employees. This year, of course, 
that's no exception. As someone who has always been a staunch 
defender of workers' rights, I am concerned about the 
conditions that temporary and noncareer workers at the Postal 
Service face.
    Unfortunately, many of these employees receive lower wages 
and benefits and, of course, lack union protections.
    Further, according to the Government Accountability Office, 
temporary and noncareer employees have between a 16 and 22 
percent higher injury rate than career employees.
    Ms. Hull, could you describe the results of the 2022 audit 
titled, ``Changes in Mail Mix: Implications for Carriers' 
Physical Health''?
    Ms. Hull. Sure. Yes, we looked at how the increases in 
package volume have an impact on the carriers. And one of the 
things that we found is that particularly temporary, pre-career 
employees had a higher injury rate from carrying large loads of 
packages and--than career employees did. We looked at how the 
injuries were associated with their time in service and their 
career status.
    And so we did find exactly what you were referring to, that 
pre-career employees had a higher injury rate and all carriers 
carrying more packages have--it has had an impact on their 
injury rates.
    Mr. Davis. Did you get any indication that there were 
serious efforts underway to change these outcomes?
    Ms. Hull. That might be a better question for Mr. White, 
but we--we did--we did get comments from the Postal Service in 
this space. And I believe they're working on solutions to 
address this, particularly policies around the weight of 
packages and how that might impact carriers themselves.
    Mr. Davis. Then, Mr. White, would you----
    Mr. White. Yes, absolutely. We have made significant 
progress in converting employees to full-time career employees, 
as you just stated, understanding the difference between that 
part-time or seasonal hire and a full-time employee. Those 
employees are more experienced.
    And then the other thing I would add is some of the package 
sorters that we have deployed do handle larger boxes, boxes up 
to 22 inches, that can improve the ergonomics for the employees 
on some of the large packages that Ms. Hull is referencing.
    Mr. Davis. Let me think thank you for that.
    I want do try and find out what's happening with temporary 
employees.
    Mr. Hogrogian, do noncareer employees have a clear path to 
becoming career employees?
    Mr. Hogrogian. Yes, they do. Let me preface that by saying 
that I'm speaking on behalf of just the National Postal Mail 
Handlers Union right now. Our contract expired September 20, 
but we made sufficient progress where we extended bargaining. 
We continue to bargain. In fact, two days ago, we had our last 
meeting, and we're very close to an agreement.
    And one of the issues is addressing pre-career employees 
and establishing a clear and definitive path to career status. 
And I don't want to bargain over here on C-SPAN or whatever, 
but we're going to get the job done, Congressman. I think 
you'll be happy. We'll send you a copy of the agreement when we 
get it.
    Mr. Davis. Well, thank you. Thank you for that.
    Let me ask you, Mr. White, if I can. As we approach, of 
course, the holiday season and their efforts, I know in my city 
it seems like there is some difficulty getting individuals to 
apply.
    Mrs. Maloney.[Presiding.] The gentleman's time has expired. 
The gentleman may answer his question.
    Mr. White. Yes. That is a great question. Since June, we've 
actually held 3,000 hiring fairs for just that reason, to 
onboard additional employees.
    I do want to publicly thank those Members of Congress who 
have promoted those hiring fairs. That is very beneficial to us 
and very beneficial to get people from your local communities 
to apply to the Postal Service. Thank you.
    Mr. Davis. Thank you very much.
    Madam Chair.
    Mrs. Maloney. OK. The chair now recognizes the 
representative from Florida, Representative Debbie Wasserman 
Schultz. You're now recognized.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you so 
much, Madam Chair. And I thank you for allowing me to waive on 
to this important committee hearing.
    Because this Nation's sacred elections will always land 
during the peak postal season, so it's absolutely critical that 
the Postmaster General provide confidence and transparency to 
the American people. They need to know that not only will 
gifts, medicine, and bills all arrive on time but that the 
Postal Service can also meet the weighty demands of our 
democracy.
    Yet despite the herculean efforts of our postal workers to 
deliver for this Nation every day, Postmaster General DeJoy 
still cloaks their fine work in secrecy and faulty legal 
reasoning. Last month, the postmaster denied my entry to tour a 
south Florida postal facility yet again where timely ballot 
delivery problems were specifically documented.
    My office coordinated a tour with the local facility, and I 
had Postal Service employees available to escort me 
unobtrusively around the facility. I've taken tours of this 
site for years without incident. But according to DeJoy's 
staff, my visit would violate their rules and run the risk of 
causing their employees supposedly to violate the Hatch Act 
around a Member of Congress who is on the ballot.
    Now, after my tour request was blocked, I reached out to 
USPS Inspector General Whitcomb Hull for a Hail Mary, and she 
agreed to inspect this facility prior to election day.
    And I want to extend my deep appreciation to her team, to 
your team, Ms. Hull, who thankfully were able to conduct two 
speedy, thorough inspections of the facility. And, fortunately, 
they found no issues.
    Ms. Hull, though, do your inspections, can you tell me, 
disrupt USPS operations?
    Ms. Hull. We do our best to be as unobtrusive as possible 
when we come in and do our work, but I'm sure there is some 
impact of us coming in the facility and looking at how 
processes is being conducted.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. But you're not turning things upside 
down.
    Do these inspections provide your office and, ideally, the 
public with greater confidence that ballots are being delivered 
in a timely manner?
    Ms. Hull. I believe they do.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Now, you were able to get a team to 
that south Florida facility the very next day and even followed 
up. But with all of the postal facilities across the country, 
is it realistic for you to be able to send teams everywhere 
that quickly or even at all?
    Ms. Hull. No. There are over 30,000 delivery units across 
the country and post offices. And so we visit many, many during 
election season but not--nowhere close to a majority or even a 
measurable percentage. We have about 90 field offices and we go 
to many places, but we can't scratch the surface on the number 
of postal facilities.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Thank you. And just as important, 
because of the discreet nature of your work and in this case 
the need to followup, your team is handcuffed in what you can 
say publicly about the results. And to your credit, we don't 
see a lot of IG press conferences for the USPS.
    How is Congress supposed to be able to conduct our 
oversight role on something as important as whether vote-by-
mail ballots are delivered efficiently and on time to count if 
we cannot enter postal facilities for 45 days before an 
election? And that's Mr. DeJoy's position.
    The IG has nowhere near the personnel to ensure this 
accountability. And the Office of Special Counsel, who has 
jurisdiction over the Hatch Act, has clearly said that the 
Hatch Act does not prohibit Members of Congress from conducting 
their official duties in overseeing the USPS even near an 
election. Yet the USPS prohibits this oversight.
    So that begs the question, Mr. White, what are you trying 
to hide? I'd like to really understand why Members of Congress 
and how this committee is--would be able to stop their 
oversight for 45 days when that's a critical time to make sure 
that you are absolutely able to do your job efficiently.
    Mr. White. I do understand that there are longstanding 
postal policies on congressional visits. I would have to point 
you to our legal and government relations team for more detail 
on those. I would also add that we do work closely with the 
Office of the Inspector General and her staff.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. OK. But it begs the question, what 
are you trying to hide?
    A key reason that I needed to visit this south Florida 
facility was because of past problems with election mail 
processing there. And the other key reason my restricted access 
is detrimental to the public is because the IG office cannot 
share the positive work being done for this election and, 
therefore, carry the unfounded fear that their--people will 
carry the unfounded fear that their ballot is unsafe in the 
mail, and that has to change.
    And, finally, Mr. White, what will Postmaster General DeJoy 
pledge to Members today? Because Mr. Connolly has been denied 
access to postal facilities, as have other Members across the 
country. What will Postmaster General DeJoy pledge to Members 
today to bolster access, transparency, and the confidence that 
Americans can carry in how USPS manages vital ballot 
deliveries? What will you commit to today? Because it needs 
improvement.
    Mr. White. Again, I will state that I do understand that 
there are longstanding policies on congressional visits----
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. That's not my question.
    Mr. White [continuing]. And I will point----
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. That is not my question. I want to 
know--reclaiming my time. I want to know what the Postmaster 
General will pledge to Members today to bolster our access, our 
ability to conduct, this committee's ability to conduct our 
responsibility for overseeing the post office and how it's OK 
in your mind for us to be unable to do that in the 45 days 
before an election.
    Mr. White. Our government relations team will reach out to 
you in the next day----
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I don't want to talk to your 
government relations team. I want an answer to this question 
from Mr. DeJoy.
    Mr. White. I am not Mr. DeJoy. The Postal Service, I 
understand----
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I know.
    Mr. White [continuing]. Has longstanding policies, and we 
would have to get back to you with more information.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Madam Chair----
    Mrs. Maloney. The time has expired on the question.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz.--I know you've been frustrated.
    Mrs. Maloney. The gentleman may answer the question.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I've been frustrated.
    Mrs. Maloney. OK.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. We need--we absolutely as a 
committee, Madam Chair, and for whoever is our next chair, to 
have the ability and not forfeit the ability as a committee to 
oversee the post office all 365 days of the year.
    Mrs. Maloney. Well, we all----
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I yield back.
    Mrs. Maloney [continuing]. Support that goal and look 
forward to the response from the post office.
    I would now like to call upon Representative Josh 
Gottheimer from New Jersey for his five minutes.
    Mr. Gottheimer. Thank you so much, Madam Chairwoman.
    Thank you, Mr. Hogrogian and the other witnesses, for 
testifying today. We appreciate your expertise on postal 
related matters. Very grateful.
    More than three years ago, stolen checks and incidents of 
mail fraud were reported in Teaneck, New Jersey, where I 
represent. Many victims who are constituents of mine have had 
checks altered after dropping them off at the post office and 
from
    [inaudble] the recipient's name to inflating checks and so 
many different types of issues that they faced.
    Initially, these reports were referred to the local police 
and then to the postal inspector. The lead agency for 
investigating mail theft in response and the Postal Inspection 
Service made recommendations to the local postmaster to improve 
mail security in and around Teaneck.
    Three years later, unfortunately, my constituents and I are 
still dealing with these issues. I've had calls with local 
postal officials and the Office of the Inspector General. Your 
agency told me that you would have a resolution on these cases 
in Teaneck's post office back in July of this year. It was then 
delayed to August, then to October, now to the end of November. 
And I'm trying to get a sense of all this money that's been 
stolen from families, seniors, and veterans, which is illegal, 
trying to understand why we can't get answers.
    Can you help me better understand why it takes so long to 
complete these investigations, what the Postal Service is doing 
about it to get a resolution to matters like these, please?
    Ms. Hull. I'm sorry. Was the question for me as the 
inspector general's--inspector general?
    Mr. Gottheimer. Yes. I'm sorry. That was to you. Sorry.
    Ms. Hull. Yes.
    Mr. Gottheimer. For Hull, sorry. Yes.
    Ms. Hull. Sure. Yes. We are currently working that 
aggressively, and sometimes these investigations take more time 
than we would like. But we are definitely working that 
investigation and doing our best to keep your staff updated 
about the progress.
    I also want to emphasize that we're starting a more broad 
look at mail theft and the Postal Service's response to mail 
theft, because as has been mentioned several times in this 
hearing, it's a bigger--it's becoming a bigger and bigger 
problem. And so we're looking at it more broadly.
    But in the cases that you're referring to, we're working 
those as aggressively as we can.
    Mr. Gottheimer. It just seems that, right, it keeps taking 
months to get any answers and, obviously, our constituents are 
very, very frustrated, families, seniors, veterans who are 
coming to us who literally they keep facing issues.
    And is it because you don't have enough staff to be able to 
do these investigations, Inspector General? What's the issue 
that keeps dragging on?
    Ms. Hull. We would always like more staff, but I'm not sure 
that's the problem in this case. I think it's just the time it 
takes to investigate some of these matters. It's--some of these 
things are complicated. What we've seen--and I don't know if 
this is in this case, but we've seen situations where groups of 
organized criminals are working together to recruit postal 
employees to steal from the mail and other things.
    So it's a big--it's become a bigger and bigger deal, and 
these cases have become much more complex than they used to be. 
So mail theft cases have--have always been a big part of our 
inventory of casework. The cases that we're working now, 
though, are much more complicated than they used to be and 
involve a lot of external activity, not just postal employees.
    So we're working with the Inspection Service on this case, 
and we will continue to do so. And we'll do our best to keep 
your staff updated when we get to a solu--resolution.
    Mr. Gottheimer. Can you help--yes. Can you help me get 
information on this case? Because literally we can't. We 
haven't heard from anybody. The regional postal inspector 
refuses to return our calls. We can't get answers. I just need 
you to help me----
    Ms. Hull. We will definitely--yes.
    Mr. Gottheimer [continuing]. Followup.
    Ms. Hull. Sure. Sure. We'll definitely get back with you.
    Mr. Gottheimer. I really appreciate that, because I'd like 
to get back to my constituents.
    Now, nationwide we know that the Postal Service 
interference and delay issues impact the delivery of lifesaving 
medication to seniors, to veterans, Social Security benefit 
paychecks, tax returns, absentee ballots that's been talked 
about today.
    In northern New Jersey, I've had many constituents tell me 
that post offices continually lose their mail. And amid the 
holidays, you might imagine this is particularly stressing for 
our families.
    Inspector General, if I can also followup with you on this 
one. What's being done to protect our senior citizens and 
veterans to make sure they receive their mail, whether it's 
medication or their hard-earned benefits? And do you have a 
sense of like what percentage of mail actually goes missing by 
state, by area? Is that something you track?
    Ms. Hull. I'm not sure we would be able to do that. We do 
have a lot of data analytics efforts that bring together the 
complaints that are raised by--by customers of the Postal 
Service, as well as complaints that come into our hotline. So 
we look for trends and things like that in those complaints and 
identify routes and post offices that are most problematic, and 
we send out teams of auditors to go look at that.
    But the Postal Service, as you can imagine, being the size 
that it is, receives thousands of complaints every day from 
customers. And so it's a big challenge.
    Mrs. Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired.
    The gentleman's time----
    Mr. Gottheimer. Is that----
    Mrs. Maloney [continuing]. Has expired.
    Mr. Gottheimer [continuing]. As the problem or is that 
just----
    Mrs. Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Gottheimer. Thank you. I yield. Thank you so much.
    Mrs. Maloney. Thank you so much.
    And, Ms. Norton----
    Mr. Gottheimer. Thank you.
    Mrs. Maloney. Representative Norton from the District of 
Columbia is now recognized.
    Ms. Norton, you are muted. We cannot hear you.
    Ms. Norton. Can you hear me now?
    Mrs. Maloney. We can hear you now.
    Ms. Norton. All right. I--this is a question for Mr. White. 
I am deeply concerned about the increase in mail theft that we 
have seen in my district, the District of Columbia, and other 
areas across the country as well. I've been contacted by 
constituents who have had their mail checks stolen and altered 
and thousands of dollars taken from their accounts. The 
increase in thefts put the safety of our hardworking postal 
workers at risk.
    Mr. White, what measures is the Postal Service taking to 
reduce mail theft?
    Mr. White. Thank you for the question. The Inspection 
Service is the law enforcement arm of the Postal Service. It is 
my understanding that you have recently met with Chief 
Barksdale regarding that matter. I will not be able to give a 
better answer than Chief Barksdale can.
    Ms. Norton. OK. Does anyone else have a response to that 
question?
    OK. Let me move on.
    The Postal Service hires additional employees during this 
peak season to account for increased mail volume. An inspector 
general report released today indicates a tight labor market 
has hindered the Postal Service's ability to hire sufficient 
workers this year. Last Thursday, Postmaster General DeJoy 
announced that Postal Service--that the Postal Service had 
reduced its hiring goal for peak season by almost a third, from 
28,000 to 20,000 temporary employees.
    Mr. White, does the Postal Service have the right staff in 
place to get mail and packages delivered throughout the coming 
holiday season?
    Mr. White. Yes, we do. The reality is that this year we are 
less dependent on peak season heroics than we have been in the 
past. We have converted 100,000 employees to full-time career 
status, which will help us with experienced employees with high 
retention rates. Supervisor vacancies are down, so we have more 
experienced, knowledgeable management within those facilities. 
And employee availability is up throughout the country. So, 
yes, we are staffed.
    Ms. Norton. OK. Ms. Hull, Mr. Carley, Mr. Hogrogian, Mr. 
Plunkett, would all of you agree?
    Mr. Carley. For the most part, yes.
    Mr. Plunkett. We expect the Postal Service to have adequate 
resources to successfully navigate the peak season.
    Mr. Hogrogian. I believe that we do have enough staffing. 
And whenever the additional staffing falls short, our regular 
work force is ready, willing, and able to work whatever 
overtime is necessary to get the job done.
    Ms. Hull. Yes. And we would agree that the Postal Service 
has a really good plan looking forward to the peak season. And 
we believe if it executes on that plan, they'll be in good 
shape.
    Ms. Norton. Thank you very much.
    My time has expired.
    Mrs. Maloney. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    We have no further members asking questions. I now yield to 
Mr. Hice for a closing statement.
    Mr. Hice. I thank you, Madam Chair.
    And before Chairman Connolly had to leave, we were 
discussing between the two of us.
    Mr. White, if you could add to the information that you're 
already going to provide the number of crimes that had been 
referred to the Department of Justice, we would also appreciate 
that information, if you could add to it. And, with that, it 
goes right along with what Ms. Norton was saying.
    I would also like to say, in regard to the information that 
was provided to the committee earlier, to Mr. Connolly, 
regarding the financial services, what we are now talking about 
goes far beyond what he was mentioning. We are now talking 
about a service, a Postal Service that is like a sinking ship 
financially, that is in trouble financially. And we all know 
it.
    And for that organization to now be offering loans is 
absolutely insane if we're going with the recommendation and 
the legislation for it to become a financial service, offering 
loans and the like. And so I just wanted clarification on that 
issue. It just makes no sense, and it far goes beyond the 
mission of the Postal Service to deliver mail and packages.
    With all of that, I do want to extend a sincere thank you 
to each of you as our witnesses today. You have an enormous 
weight on your shoulders and an enormous constitutional 
responsibility. And I know that each of you and the hundreds of 
thousands who work within the Postal Service are giving a lot 
of effort, and we deeply appreciate that.
    And I'm grateful for you coming and testifying before this 
committee today and wish you the best. I'm sure we won't see 
you again for a while but wish you a great Thanksgiving and 
Christmas in spite of a very, very busy time that you're about 
to embark on. So thank you for joining us.
    Mrs. Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired.
    I now recognize Representative Brenda Lawrence for a 
closing statement.
    Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you so much.
    We've heard testimony today that indicates the Postal 
Service has taken many steps to ensure that you're ready for 
the Nation's peak holiday season, but we know there's still 
more to do. We're looking forward to the reports from our--to 
look at our operations of how we're continuing to move forward 
and meet the needs of the people.
    We also learned, as we've known all along, that as we talk 
about these measures, that it is the people, the work force, 
and the stakeholders community that make this thing--the Postal 
Service work.
    I've dedicated 30 years of my life as part of this 
essential thing we call the post office, and I know firsthand 
the dedication and the focus on the mission. As Mr. Hogrogian 
said often, we'll get it done.
    At the end of the day, it's always like ringing the bell. 
We got all the mail out of the building and sometimes 
exhausted, sometimes with overtime and other issues. And I 
appreciate the postmaster who said he delivered mail on New 
Year's Eve. I know that feeling. We'll get the job done.
    I have served on this committee for the Postal Service 
because I wanted to make sure that the company that gave me so 
many opportunities, the organization, the service industry, 
that we continue to provide service.
    As you know, this committee is committed to the Postal 
Service, who is the Nation's favorite Federal agency. You 
continue to be the highest-ranked agency in our Federal 
Government.
    In closing, I just want to say to our witnesses thank you 
for being here. Thank you for your remarks. I, too, want to 
wish you an amazing holiday season, safe holiday season. We 
said that a lot in the Postal Service because we know, like in 
Michigan, holiday seasons is rough once you walk out the door. 
And I want to also wish you a joyful, you and your family, 
holiday season.
    And thank my colleagues for all of their efforts to hear 
and to make sure we're moving forward. Thank you.
    Mrs. Maloney. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back.
    I now recognize myself for a closing statement.
    I want to thank all of our extraordinary witnesses today 
for your public service, first of all, and then for your 
testimony today and your insights.
    And I want to commend all of my colleagues that 
participated in this important conversation today.
    And I would like to insert into the record the Postal 
Service Office of Inspector General's report entitled, ``Fiscal 
Year 2023 Peak Season Preparedness,'' and statements for the 
record from Keep US Posted, the American Catalogue Mailers 
Association, the National Association of Supervisors.
    Mrs. Maloney. And I just want to say that the Postal 
Service, like all of Americans, I rate it as a service that I 
really treasure. And, in fact, on a personal note, when I first 
ran for Congress 30 years ago, I challenged a 30--a 15-year 
Republican whose top priority, believe it or not, was to 
privatize the post office. So that was a clear item between us. 
We needed postal services. People were constantly asking for 
more post offices, more services, yet he wanted to privatize 
the postal office.
    So when I came to Congress, I too wanted to serve on this 
committee to protect postal services in our country and to make 
sure that this vital service was available to everybody who 
wanted it, everybody who needed it.
    And it's been said before. It's in the Constitution. And 
it's the one institution, the one agency that unites and knits 
this country together. One postal stamp can go to any address 
in America for the same price, and you would not have that if 
that was privatized.
    So it's been a very strong purpose of myself to keep it 
vital. And that is why I worked so hard this year to make sure 
we passed postal reform, got rid of unnecessary requirements 
that hinder them. And it has shown in the report that we've 
gotten that it's helped move the Postal Service to a stronger, 
more sound financial footing.
    And we've already recently seen that the bipartisan postal 
reform law is having a positive impact, and we need to continue 
to build on that impact and that legislation.
    Mrs. Maloney. I'm looking forward to the Postal Service 
continuing to move rapidly toward electric vehicle fleet using 
the funds, the over $3 billion that Congress approved for this 
purpose, and, again, thanks to leadership from this committee.
    Two years ago, our committee raised serious concerns about 
declining service performance. And I am pleased that the Postal 
Service has made efforts to improve its service since then, but 
concerns about service and quality remain. To be clear, 
lowering service standards to increase on-time percentages is 
not the solution.
    It is also critical that the Postal Service closely examine 
planned service changes that could negatively impact service 
quality, especially as we move into peak season. The American 
public deserves a high-quality Postal Service that is reliable, 
affordable, and accessible to all.
    I look forward to this committee continuing to work with 
the Postal Service to ensure that the American public is 
getting the service that it expects and deserves. And this 
committee will always be a partner in improving services and 
supporting the postal office.
    With that and without objection, all members have five 
legislative days within which to submit additional written 
questions for the witnesses to the chair, which will be 
forwarded to the witnesses for their response. I ask our 
witnesses to please respond as promptly as you are able. I also 
join my colleagues in wishing all of you a very happy holiday 
season for Thanksgiving and for the holiday Hanukkah and 
Christmas season. Thank you all for being here today.
    This hearing is adjourned. Thank you.
    [Whereupon, at 4:24 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]