[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                        JROTC: PROTECTING CADETS
                         FROM SEXUAL ABUSE AND
                         INSTRUCTOR MISCONDUCT

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                   SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY

                                 OF THE

                   COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                           NOVEMBER 16, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-109

                               __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Reform


                 [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
                                                                                        

                       Available on: govinfo.gov,
                         oversight.house.gov or
                             docs.house.gov


				________


	             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

49-683 			  WASHINGTON : 2022







                   COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM

                CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York, Chairwoman

Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of   James Comer, Kentucky, Ranking 
    Columbia                             Minority Member
Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts      Jim Jordan, Ohio
Jim Cooper, Tennessee                Virginia Foxx, North Carolina
Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia         Jody B. Hice, Georgia
Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois        Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Jamie Raskin, Maryland               Michael Cloud, Texas
Ro Khanna, California                Bob Gibbs, Ohio
Kweisi Mfume, Maryland               Clay Higgins, Louisiana
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York   Ralph Norman, South Carolina
Rashida Tlaib, Michigan              Pete Sessions, Texas
Katie Porter, California             Fred Keller, Pennsylvania
Cori Bush, Missouri                  Andy Biggs, Arizona
Shontel M. Brown, Ohio               Andrew Clyde, Georgia
Danny K. Davis, Illinois             Nancy Mace, South Carolina
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Florida    Scott Franklin, Florida
Peter Welch, Vermont                 Jake LaTurner, Kansas
Henry C. ``Hank'' Johnson, Jr.,      Pat Fallon, Texas
    Georgia                          Yvette Herrell, New Mexico
John P. Sarbanes, Maryland           Byron Donalds, Florida
Jackie Speier, California            Mike Flood, Nebraska
Robin L. Kelly, Illinois
Brenda L. Lawrence, Michigan
Mark DeSaulnier, California
Jimmy Gomez, California
Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts

                      Russ Anello, Staff Director
              Daniel Rebnord, Subcommittee Staff Director
                 Morgan Solomon, Clerk/Staff Assistant

                      Contact Number: 202-225-5051

                  Mark Marin, Minority Staff Director
                                 ------                                

                   Subcommittee on National Security

               Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts, Chairman
Peter Welch, Vermont                 Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin, Ranking 
Henry C. ``Hank'' Johnson, Jr.,          Minority Member
    Georgia                          Virginia Foxx, North Carolina
Mark DeSaulnier, California          Bob Gibbs, Ohio
Kweisi Mfume, Maryland               Clay Higgins, Louisiana
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Florida    Mike Flood, Nebraska
Jackie Speier, California
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on November 16, 2022................................     1

                               Witnesses

Thomas A. Constable, Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense for 
  Manpower and Reserve Affairs, Department of Defense
Oral Statement...................................................     6

Yvette K. Bourcicot, Acting Assistant Secretary of the Army for 
  Manpower and Reserve Affairs, Department of the Army
Oral Statement...................................................     8

Robert D. Hogue, Acting Assistant Secretary of the Navy for 
  Manpower and Reserve Affairs, Department of the Navy
Oral Statement...................................................     9

The Honorable Alex Wagner, Assistant Secretary of the Air Force 
  for Manpower and Reserve Affairs, Department of the Air Force
Oral Statement...................................................    10

Written opening statements and statements for the witnesses are 
  available on the U.S. House of Representatives Document 
  Repository at: docs.house.gov.

                           Index of Documents

                              ----------                              

  * New York Times article regarding JROTC instructor misconduct; 
  submitted by Rep. Lynch.

  * List of recommendations to prevent sexual assault in JROTC 
  units; submitted by Rep. Garcia.

  * Opening statement; submitted by Rep. Garcia.

  * Questions for the record to: Ms. Bouricicot; submitted by 
  Subcommittee Chairman Lynch, Chairwoman Maloney, and Rep. 
  Johnson.

  * Questions for the record to: Mr. Constable; submitted by 
  Subcommittee Chairman Lynch, Chairwoman Maloney, and Rep. 
  Johnson.

  * Questions for the record to: Mr. Hogue; submitted by 
  Subcommittee Chairman Lynch, Chairwoman Maloney, and Rep. 
  Johnson.

  * Questions for the record to: Mr. Wagner; submitted by 
  Subcommittee Chairman Lynch, Chairwoman Maloney, and Rep. 
  Johnson.

Documents entered into the record during this hearing and 
  Questions for the Record (QFR's) are available at: 
  docs.house.gov.

 
                        JROTC: PROTECTING CADETS
                         FROM SEXUAL ABUSE AND
                         INSTRUCTOR MISCONDUCT

                              ----------                              


                      Wednesday, November 16, 2022

                   House of Representatives
          Subcommittee on National Security
                          Committee on Oversight and Reform
                                                   Washington, D.C.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m., in 
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, and via Zoom, Hon. 
Stephen F. Lynch (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Lynch, Maloney (ex-officio), 
DeSaulnier, Wasserman Schultz, Speier, Grothman, and Foxx.
    Also present: Representatives Garcia of Texas, Houlahan, 
and Fallon.
    Mr. Lynch. The subcommittee will now come to order. Without 
objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the 
subcommittee at any time.
    The chair now recognizes himself for an opening statement.
    Good morning, everyone. Thank you for being here.
    Today the Subcommittee on National Security will examine 
the Department of Defense and military services' administration 
and oversight of the Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps 
program, or JROTC.
    As established by Congress, the statuary purpose of JROTC 
is to instill in our Nation's high school students, quote, 
``the values of citizenship, service to the United States, and 
personal responsibility, as well as a sense of 
accomplishment,'' close quote.
    In furtherance of that objective, JROTC offers 
participating high school students or cadets an immersive 
military learning environment that includes coursework in 
leadership, civics, ethics, history, health, and STEM, as well 
as service-specific classes in seamanship, land navigation, 
aviation history, and aerospace science.
    The program also providers cadets an important opportunity 
to visit military installations off campus and participate in 
other extracurricular activities with fellow students.
    As chairman of the Subcommittee on National Security, I 
believe that the JROTC program is instrumental in developing 
our young people who may be inspired to embark on a life 
dedicated to military or civilian public service.
    That is precisely why the program must be subject to 
meaningful oversight and operate within maximum transparency 
and accountability for the benefit, the health, and the safety 
of every cadet.
    Regrettably, that is not the current case. In July 2022 an 
extensive New York Times investigation concluded that within 
the past five years JROTC instructors have been criminally 
charged with sexual misconduct involving students at a rate 
that is, quote, ``far higher than the rate of civilian high 
school teachers.''
    The investigation also found that many other JROTC 
instructors have been accused of misconduct but never charged.
    Our own subcommittee investigation has further revealed 
that the extent of instructor misconduct within JROTC is even 
more disturbing than previously reported.
    In a moment we'll hear testimony from DOD and the military 
services about the actions they are taking to ensure that the 
safety and well-being of JROTC cadets is in place.
    I look forward to hearing more about how they are working 
to improve the vetting and certification of JROTC instructors, 
how allegations of instructor misconduct are reported and 
handled, and how the military services conduct oversight of 
their respective JROTC programs.
    I'd like to conclude by framing today's hearing within a 
broader strategic context.
    The United States military, the finest volunteer fighting 
force in the world, is currently grappling with an 
unprecedented recruitment and retention challenge. This is 
driven at least in part by a lack of trust among our Nation's 
young men and women and their families that the United States 
military will protect them from unnecessary physical and 
psychological harm, both at home during training and when they 
are deployed.
    Many of the young men and women who join JROTC do so with 
the noblest aspirations of serving our country, either in 
military or civilian service. And so, when they do, when they 
don their military uniforms, even as high school students, they 
are entitled to such protections as we would wish for our own 
sons and daughters.
    As the Department of Defense and Congress continue to 
address our current readiness and recruitment challenges, it is 
vital that we restore and maintain the public's faith in 
military service. We can begin by demonstrating to those who 
are eager to serve our country that we do not take their health 
and safety lightly.
    It is imperative that we honor the sacred commitment of our 
JROTC cadets by ensuring that they are being educated in a 
military culture and environment that prioritizes their well-
being and is reflective of their service on behalf of our 
Nation.
    I want to thank our witnesses for their willingness to 
testify today.
    And I will now yield to the distinguished ranking member 
from Wisconsin, Mr. Grothman, for his opening statement.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you, Chairman Lynch.
    Before I get started, I'd like to ask for unanimous consent 
to have Mr. Fallon from Texas waive onto the subcommittee for 
the purposes of questions.
    Mr. Lynch. Without objection, so ordered.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you.
    I would also like to thank the witnesses for all appearing 
today. This is a very important issue and it's a proper topic 
for oversight.
    We have the greatest military in the world, primarily 
because of the men and women who serve. These men and women 
often grow up wanting to serve their country and join the 
Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps in high school or the 
Reserve Officer Training Corps in college to prepare.
    These programs provide training, education, and leadership 
skills necessary for the military. JROTC operates in every 
state and has more than 3,500 programs. Approximately 538,690 
cadets are enrolled.
    That's pretty good for approximately, isn't it?
    The programs are vital to the success of our military. 
Unfortunately, recent reporting regarding sexual abuse and 
instructor misconduct is very concerning. The New York Times 
found that 33 JROTC instructors in the past five years have 
been criminally charged with sexual misconduct involving 
students.
    This is shameful. It's at a far higher rate than civilian 
high school teachers.
    At least seven were flagged for allegations previously but 
allowed to keep teaching. In total, over the past five years 
there have been 60 allegations of sexual misconduct against 
JROTC, with 58 of the 60 substantiated.
    While those 58 received an initial suspension of 
certification, more must be done to protect our young men and 
women who wish to serve in uniform.
    I'm interested in asking each of you not only what your 
plans are to protect your cadets in the future but also if 
there are any identifiable patterns across these allegations. 
Patterns of location, demographics, age, and gender would help 
inform where the reforms could be most tailored to provide the 
largest return and protect the most cadets.
    I hope this will be a productive hearing and result in 
substantive change from each of you.
    Again, Mr. Chairman, I thank you for holding this hearing. 
And I yield back.
    Mr. Lynch. I thank the gentleman.
    Again, we have several Members who are not on the Oversight 
Committee but who have done remarkable work in this area, in 
addition to Mr. Fallon, who has already been waived on.
    Without objection, the Member from Texas, Congresswoman 
Sylvia Garcia, is recognized for the purpose of participating 
in questioning the witnesses.
    And without objection, the Member from Pennsylvania, 
Congresswoman Houlahan, is recognized as well for the purpose 
of participating in the questioning of the witnesses.
    Thank you.
    I will now introduce our witnesses. First, we'll hear from 
Mr. Thomas Constable.
    I did not realize we also are graced with the presence of 
our full committee chairwoman, Mrs. Maloney. And, Mrs. Maloney, 
the gentlewoman from New York, is recognized for an opening 
statement.
    Welcome.
    Mrs. Maloney. Thank you to all of our witnesses and to you, 
Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, for holding this important 
hearing and for your many years of leadership advocating for 
the health and safety of everyone who proudly and bravely wears 
our Nation's uniform.
    The Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps program, or 
JROTC, provides high school students with an important 
opportunity to strengthen their leadership and interpersonal 
skills, improve their physical fitness, and pursue their 
education, all while immersing themselves in military culture.
    Every year thousands of young cadets graduate from JROTC. 
Many of them go on to pursue a career of military service. This 
program is crucial for the future of our military. So, I was 
deeply disturbed by the report in The New York Times this 
summer finding that dozens of JROTC instructors have sexually 
assaulted their students, abused them, and harassed them.
    That is why Chairman Lynch and I wrote to the Department of 
Defense and the military services in August seeking information 
about how the military services conduct oversight of their 
JROTC programs and what changes are needed to protect cadets 
from predatory instructors.
    What we have learned from the Department is truly alarming. 
The New York Times identified 33 JROTC instructors who have 
been accused of sexually assaulting their students in the last 
five years.
    But our investigation, as the Chairman noted, shows that 
the problem is far worse than what was reported. We found that 
the Defense Department has received at least 60 allegations of 
sexual abuse, harassment, or other misconduct in the past five 
years, 58 of which were substantiated following a law 
enforcement investigation.
    The Department also told us that the military services do 
not always conduct annual in-person evaluations of their 
programs for JROTC. While the Army conducts so-called ``assist 
visits'' on a yearly basis for individual programs in need of 
``additional attention,'' it otherwise only inspects one-third 
of its units each year. Meanwhile, the Air Force completes in-
person assessments every three years, while the Army and 
Marines perform such examinations every other year.
    I want to be clear: The vast majority of JROTC instructors 
are decent and trustworthy members or former members of our 
armed services, and they continue to serve our country 
honorably by teaching and mentoring our next generation of 
leaders for the military. But our investigation has exposed 
that a lack of Pentagon oversight appears to have enabled the 
predatory behavior of some of the JROTC instructors.
    Any allegation of sexual assault, abuse, or harassment in 
this program is one too many and needs to be addressed. These 
are our future leaders in our military. We need to respect them 
and treat them in ways that they are protected.
    I hope that today's hearing will illuminate some of the 
lapses that have contributed to sexual abuse by JROTC 
instructors, and I am confident that the Oversight Committee, 
led by this subcommittee, will continue to work in a bipartisan 
way with Mr. Grothman and others to ensure the safety and well-
being of our Nation's young cadets.
    I thank the chairman for holding this hearing, and I look 
forward, very much forward, to the testimony and to your ideas 
of how to make sure this never happens again and how our 
distinguished military goes forward in a way that protects our 
young cadets.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Lynch. The gentlelady yields back.
    And I just want to say that I know this is one of the final 
hearings that we will have during this current session, and I 
do not want to miss the opportunity to say thank you to 
Chairwoman Maloney.
    I have served with you for over 20 years on this committee, 
and I can think of no one who has been more productive or 
persistent under the rubric of oversight in investigating and 
correcting some of the wrongs that we have seen during our time 
in this Congress.
    And I just want to thank you for your leadership, not only 
on this issue but on so many issues over the past 20 years. I 
know that you have been a prolific lawmaker.
    I can think of few Members in this Congress that have 
produced as much legislation as you have, Madam Chair. And you 
have been both energetic and heroic on championing issues on 
behalf of people who are powerless, and in this case our high 
school students, who may feel that they are overmatched and at 
a power disadvantage.
    So, I just want to take this opportunity to say thank you 
for your wonderful work on behalf of the people of New York's 
12th District in Congress. I want to congratulate you on an 
illustrious and highly productive career. You have been an 
example for all of us. So, thank you very, very much.
    Mrs. Maloney. Well, I thank you for your leadership, and 
Mr. Grothman and Ms. Houlahan and everyone here that's working 
on this issue, and you've shown great dedication, 
effectiveness, and leadership. And I'm honored to be supporting 
your efforts today.
    Mr. Lynch. Thank you.
    Now I will introduce our witnesses.
    First, we'll hear from Mr. Thomas Constable, who is the 
Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense for Manpower and Reserve 
Affairs at the Department of Defense.
    Mr. Constable's position directs the Department's overall 
manpower policies, including force training and education. Mr. 
Constable previously served for more than 20 years with the 
United States Army as an Active-Duty soldier before retiring 
from service in 2008.
    Next, we will hear from Ms. Yvette Bourcicot, who is the 
Acting Assistant Secretary of the Army for Manpower and Reserve 
Affairs.
    In this role, Ms. Bourcicot manages manpower personnel and 
Reserve Component affairs for the United States Army and 
provides advice to the Secretary of the oversight of human 
resources, training, and force structure, as well as other 
important readiness matters. Ms. Bourcicot previously served as 
an officer in the United States Air Force from 2000 to 2010 and 
has held several other roles in the Department of Defense.
    We'll then hear from Mr. Robert Hogue, who is the Acting 
Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Manpower and Reserve 
Affairs.
    In this role, Mr. Hogue is responsible for the overall 
supervision and oversight of the Navy's manpower and Reserve 
Component affairs, including the development of programs and 
policy related to military personnel and Naval education. Mr. 
Hogue has a distinguished career as a member of the Senior 
Executive Service with the Navy and the Marine Corps, including 
previously serving as the senior legal adviser to the 
Commandant of the Marine Corps.
    Finally, we'll hear from Mr. Alex Wagner, who is the 
Assistant Secretary for the United States Air Force for 
Manpower and Reserve Affairs. In this role he provides overall 
supervision for matters related to the Air Force's manpower, 
military and civilian personnel, and Reserve Components. Mr. 
Wagner has also previously served in multiple civilian roles at 
the Defense Department, including as former chief of staff to 
the Secretary of the Army.
    Mr. Constable, Ms. Bourcicot, Mr. Hogue, and Mr. Wagner, 
could you please rise so that we can swear you in? And could 
you please all raise your right hand?
    Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to 
give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God?
    Let the record show that the witnesses have each answered 
in in the affirmative.
    You may be seated.
    Without objection, your written statements will be made 
part of the record.
    With that, Mr. Constable, you are now recognized for an 
oral summation of your testimony.

STATEMENT OF THOMAS A. CONSTABLE, ACTING ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF 
DEFENSE FOR MANPOWER AND RESERVE AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE

    Mr. Constable. Good morning, Chairman Lynch, Ranking Member 
Grothman, Madam Chairwoman by surprise, and distinguished 
members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today to discuss the Junior Reserve Officers' Training 
Corps program, better known as JROTC. We might call it JROTC as 
we get going throughout the morning.
    ``Every officer holds a special position of moral trust and 
responsibility. No officer will violate that trust or avoid 
responsibility for any of their actions.''
    Those are not my words. Those are the opening to the 
Officer's Creed. It's required learning for all new officers 
and the creed that we all try to live by in all we do in the 
Department of Defense. But sometimes we fail, and when we do 
it's our moral obligation to take stock of our processes, to 
ensure we're doing all we can to set conditions for the success 
of our members.
    Today that includes the retirees who are honored to 
continue to wear the uniform as instructors, and that includes 
the high school students who have heard the call early in life 
and joined a Junior ROTC program.
    There is no place, no justification for the misconduct that 
has taken place within the JROTC program. These incidents are 
directly opposed to our core values and in no way reflect the 
military training and education that JROTC instructors received 
while serving in uniform.
    The Department of Defense has an unwavering commitment to 
the safety and well-being of all JROTC participants and to 
holding personnel accountable for any misconduct. We do this in 
coordination with the schools, the military departments, and 
the Department of Education.
    To that end, my office has been coordinating closely with 
the military departments to conduct a complete review of 
governing policies. We have found areas where we can improve in 
standardized policy and procedures across the services in order 
to prevent sexual harassment and assault, to hold personnel 
appropriately accountable when there is misconduct or abuse. We 
intend to have some updated policies in place by the end of 
this year.
    We are also working closely with the Department of 
Education, given its role in regulating and enforcing 
compliance with Title IX and the resources available to them to 
ensure that victims receive the help they need in response to 
sexual misconduct.
    We must never allow anyone who represents the Department of 
Defense, either directly or indirectly, to break faith with our 
communities.
    Over 3,400 schools across 50 states and territories have 
invested in hosting JROTC by hiring over 7,500 military 
retirees as school employees to teach JROTC to a 
demographically diverse population of over half a million 
students who elect to pursue this course annually. We owe it to 
these students and communities to offer appropriately screened 
and trained candidates for employment in the schools as JROTC 
instructors and to hold individuals accountable when there is 
misconduct.
    To say that any case of instructor misconduct is 
unacceptable is an understatement. JROTC should be the shining 
example of duty, honor, country within the schools we serve.
    This issue has the highest attention across the highest 
levels of Department leadership. Our full review of governing 
policies and regulations is just the first step to ensuring we 
have effective oversight and administration of the JROTC 
program.
    The Department of Defense acknowledges our moral obligation 
to protect those in our care and hold accountable the standards 
of military retirees who are privileged to continue to wear the 
Nation's uniform as JROTC instructors.
    We remain profoundly committed to doing right by our 
students and our educational communities by providing the 
support and resources necessary to supplement the development 
and prosperity of our great Nation and its future leaders.
    Thank you again for your time and the opportunity this 
morning. I look forward to your questions.
    Mr. Lynch. Thank you.
    The chair now recognizes Ms. Bourcicot.
    You're now recognized for five minutes for a presentation 
of your testimony.

STATEMENT OF YVETTE K. BOURCICOT, ACTING ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF 
 THE ARMY FOR MANPOWER AND RESERVE AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF THE 
                              ARMY

    Ms. Bourcicot. Thank you.
    Chairman Lynch, Ranking Member Grothman, distinguished 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify on behalf of the men and women of the United States 
Army.
    I would like to start by stating that I share your outrage 
regarding the reported mistreatment of Junior ROTC cadets, and 
I understand why this is such an important topic to discuss 
today.
    As a proud graduate of Oxon Hill High School JROTC just 
over the bridge in Maryland, I have a unique connection in 
understanding of this program. I remember vividly proudly 
putting on the uniform for my first time, getting my first 
opportunities at formal leadership, learning about discipline, 
health and wellness, and most important, what it means to be a 
citizen of these United States of America.
    I'm grateful for my instructors--Lieutenant Colonel Tony 
Edler (ph), Colonel Curtis Spencer, Chief Master Sergeant Frank 
Killebrew, and Master Sergeant Dave Ferguson--who helped mold 
me into an Air Force Junior ROTC cadet, a senior ROTC cadet, an 
Air Force officer, and for laying the foundation for me today 
as the Acting Assistant Secretary of the Army for Manpower and 
Reserve Affairs.
    I want to emphasize that Army senior leaders require 
personnel who are placed in a position of trust to act in a 
manner that is worthy of that trust. My team and I are prepared 
to work transparently with you to improve the Army's Junior 
ROTC program and prevent breaks in that trust from happening 
again in the future.
    The Army's top priority is its people, to include students 
participating in Army JROTC activities. Sexual harassment and 
sexual assault have no place in our Army. We take JROTC 
instructor misconduct very seriously, given our longstanding 
commitment to providing a beneficial program for students and 
our emphasis on preventing harmful behaviors.
    JROTC instructor mistreatment of cadets is particularly 
egregious because of the faith and confidence that the Army, 
parents, students, and the Nation place in those teachers, and 
we will not tolerate it.
    From Secretary Wormuth and Chief of Staff McConville to our 
TRADOC commander, General Gary Brito, our cadet commander, 
General Tony Munera, our brigade commanders, and our 
instructors in the programs, we lead and follow by our Army 
values.
    The United States Army Cadet Command oversees the Junior 
ROTC program and is proactive in its approach to screening 
instructor candidates and training instructors to provide a 
safe learning environment for our cadets.
    Instructors found unsuitable due to illegal activity or 
behavior contrary to Army values are decertified permanently 
and removed from Army JROTC classrooms.
    Six years ago, Cadet Command broadened its procedures to 
include the Tier I FBI background check screening in accordance 
with Army Directive 2014-23. This screening is the cornerstone 
of the Army's JROTC instructor vetting process and enhances the 
local school district screening process.
    That said, we can and will go further to prevent and punish 
instructor misconduct. The Army is working in coordination with 
the other services and the Department of Defense to improve 
oversight of the JROTC program, decrease the chance of these 
incidents from occurring again, and ensure the continued 
success of the program.
    As Chairwoman Maloney said, the overwhelming majority of 
Army JROTC instructors perform their duties honorably every 
day. In its 106th year, the U.S. Army has the oldest JROTC 
program in the United States. Providing service and civic-
related instruction to students in 8th through 12th grade is an 
exemplar of programs for our youth.
    In the past five years, its 1.2 million participants 
contributed 14.6 million hours of community service. Just one 
example is the Cypress Lake High School JROTC cadets, Fort 
Myers, Florida, who led campus cleanup following Hurricane Ian.
    Research shows that JROTC cadets have a higher high school 
attendance rate, a higher high school graduation rate, and a 
higher grade point average than their peers. We're proud of 
this work and appreciate its value in enabling America's youth 
in increasing their propensity for civil service.
    Chairman Lynch, Ranking Member Grothman, distinguished 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity, and 
I am happy to take your questions.
    Mr. Lynch. Thank you.
    Mr. Hogue, you're now recognized for five minutes.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT D. HOGUE, ACTING ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE 
 NAVY FOR MANPOWER AND RESERVE AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY

    Mr. Hogue. Good morning, Chairman Lynch, Chairwoman 
Maloney, Ranking Member Comer, Ranking Member Grothman, and 
distinguished members of the subcommittee.
    I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to 
discuss the actions that the Department of the Navy has taken 
in response to the reported sexual misconduct involving Navy 
and Marine Corps Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps 
instructors, JROTC.
    I want to convey on behalf of Secretary Del Toro and the 
senior Department of the Navy civilian and military leadership 
that we take every instance of alleged sexual misconduct very 
seriously and are taking immediate action to improve the JROTC 
program to do everything within our power to avoid any future 
instructor misconduct.
    Across the Nation, the Navy and Marine Corps partners with 
more than 800 JROTC host schools with roughly 100,000 
participating students. JROTC teaches life skills that colleges 
and employers highly value in prospective applicants but that 
are typically not taught in high school curriculum. Through the 
JROTC curriculum, instructors help cultivate skills that 
position students better for success inside and outside the 
classroom.
    Our youth need positive leaders, mentors, teachers, and 
role models to help prepare them to make good decisions in life 
and become productive citizens of our Nation.
    JROTC instructors are often trusted adults and mentors in 
the lives of these students and their units. The Department is 
taking action to update policy and training to ensure that 
JROTC instructors do not betray that trust.
    We understand the seriousness of these incidents. While the 
vast majority of our instructors perform in an exemplary way, 
Navy and Marine Corps JROTC programs have had 23 incidents of 
sexual misconduct involving cadets in the last five years and 
in every case, we took immediate corrective actions.
    Although JROTC instructors are employees of the individual 
school systems, the Department understands and takes very 
seriously that the instructors' conduct directly affects 
students and the services' relationship with the America 
people. We are striving to ensure that all instructor conduct 
is appropriate and positive, building trust with JROTC cadets, 
host schools, and the American people.
    These are sensitive issues, particularly because the 
victims are minors. It is sometimes difficult for the 
Department to know the exact nature of the misconduct and the 
results of every investigation as local authorities and school 
districts occasionally do not or cannot release information.
    But we are committed to working with our partners and local 
authorities to improve our assessments of instructors and to 
improve reporting and response processes.
    We welcome additional oversight and are committed to 
improving policies and processes to partner more closely with 
the host schools to ensure our cadets are safe. We will be 
steadfast in protecting JROTC cadets, our Nation's next 
generation of leaders.
    Thank you for the opportunity to appear today, and I look 
forward to answering your questions.
    Mr. Lynch. Thank you.
    Mr. Wagner, you're now recognized for five minutes.

STATEMENT OF ALEX WAGNER, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE AIR FORCE 
 FOR MANPOWER AND RESERVE AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE

    Mr. Wagner. Chairman Lynch, Ranking Member Grothman, 
distinguished Members of Congress, thank you for your continued 
support and for the opportunity to testify today on the status 
of the Department of the Air Force's Junior Reserve Officers' 
Training Corps program.
    Air Force JROTC is a statutorily mandated citizenship 
program, one that supports the development of America's youth 
by building character, leadership skills, and a commitment to 
national service. The program seeks to instill a sense of pride 
and professionalism, personal responsibility, and provide a 
basic familiarity with America's Air and Space Forces.
    Like you, I am outraged by the acts of instructor 
misconduct within JROTC. Even one incident of this nature is 
too many, and it's unacceptable.
    The JROTC instructor corps represents the Department of 
Defense, and they are expected to be role models in our partner 
schools, trusted adults and mentors. We have a special 
obligation to ensure that they safeguard the lives of the young 
women and men entrusted to their care.
    The incidents of sexual misconduct highlighted by The New 
York Times are inimical to our ethos and our institutional core 
values. Given the incidents of misconduct identified and our 
own review, it is clear the Department of the Air Force must do 
more to prevent this type of misconduct from occurring at any 
of our JROTC units.
    To improve our prevention efforts, we're currently 
reviewing oversight, committing resources to ensure proper 
staffing levels, enhancing screenings, and revamping initial 
and recurring trainings. Finally, we're taking steps to attract 
and retain a female instructor corps more representative of the 
female cadets in our program.
    Our goal is to reduce the number of sexual assaults, 
harassment, and other incidents of exploitation to zero. And to 
that end, I am committed to improving oversight and enhancing 
program resources.
    In closing, I'm very thankful--and I want to emphasize 
this--to the outstanding instructors and staff who continue to 
work hard day in and day out, giving their best to this 
program, in order to motivate and inspire our next generation 
of leaders. Their efforts truly change lives and grow a 
stronger Air and Space Force.
    As previously stated, even one incident, however, is too 
many, and we owe our cadets a program where all associated with 
JROTC can learn, grow, and thrive. We are aggressively taking 
action focused on improving the safety and well-being of our 
cadets and want to ensure that Congress and the American people 
know that we take these responsibilities seriously.
    Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today, 
and I look forward to your questions.
    Mr. Lynch. Thank you.
    The chair would like to offer a motion for unanimous 
consent that we enter into the record a New York Times article, 
which is the subject of this hearing, dated July 9, 2022, by 
Michael Baker, Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs, and Ilana Marcus.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    Mr. Lynch. The chair now recognizes himself for five 
minutes for questions.
    I've had the opportunity to serve my district, the Eighth 
District of Massachusetts, for more than 20 years, and for that 
time I've also been a member of this committee and this 
subcommittee. And our highest priority across the board for all 
of our members, both sides of the aisle, has been the health 
and safety of our sons and daughters in uniform. And we take 
that responsibility extremely seriously, that we must have a 
commitment to protect those who serve and sacrifice on behalf 
of our freedom. There can be no higher responsibility.
    So, the subject of today's hearing, which is the sexual 
abuse and harassment of JROTC cadets, who in most cases are 
children, who aspire to serve and defend our country, is 
especially disturbing.
    I think it might be helpful to hear from our witnesses 
where the gaps are. Where have we failed? It would seem to me 
that there are probably five areas that jump out at me after 
reviewing our internal investigation, as well as the 
accusations and reports of The New York Times columnists and 
reporters.
    One would be the preparation of our instructors, our JROTC 
instructors. And are we instructing them in a fashion--and it 
is apparently at great variance from state to state and school 
district to school district whether or not certifications are 
necessary, whether or not teacher training is necessary, the 
degree to which we require potential instructors to engage and 
understand what their responsibilities are.
    There is also an, I would say, organizational gap between 
JROTC and our military and the school districts, and there's a 
lack of clarity in terms of the lines of responsibility, I 
think. And I think it's a case-by-case basis, depending on the 
MOU, the memorandum of understanding between the JROTC and the 
particular school district. And I understand that that is not 
uniform across all jurisdictions.
    Then there's the reporting issue. As The New York Times 
pointed out, there's a question of the reporting of abuse and 
whether or not that is seriously followed up, if students are 
informed of their protection from retribution, because many of 
them have said--many of these victims have said that they felt 
trapped and that they were jeopardizing the potential benefits 
of the four-year program if they indeed reported their abuse to 
a superior.
    And there's also the chain of command aspect that overhangs 
this whole situation.
    There's a question about the removal of--and this is 
repeatedly brought out in The New York Times article--the 
removal of instructors, because a number of these individuals, 
when eventually convicted, had records of prior abuse but had 
not been taken out of the process. And some were transferred 
and allowed to continue their abuse.
    And then support for the victims, as well, to make sure 
that following any allegations they are reinforced and 
supported and helped in their desire to eventually join the 
military.
    So let me start with you, Mr. Constable. In those areas, 
could you indicate where you think we might renew our efforts 
to strengthen some of those vulnerabilities?
    Mr. Constable. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    We look at this across the board just as you've described 
it. Inconsistency is probably a characteristic that's fair to 
apply here. And as we look across the population of not just 
the misconduct cases in front of us now but the program 
overall, what we see is 3,400 different schools, each with its 
separate memorandum of agreement, as you've said.
    And so where we're headed is toward--we're really pushing 
toward policy that would standardize such things. 
Standardization, I think, is the watchword going forward. As we 
do that, we work closely with the Department of Education to 
bridge some of those gaps where we don't have access into the 
schoolrooms.
    As far as reporting goes, personal data for children is a 
sensitive, very sensitive issue anyhow. So conveying that from 
50 different states has different rules and policies perhaps 
that we don't have access to.
    I think going through state department, we'll see what we 
can cover. And I think that if we can't get there still, we'll 
be back to work with the committees to see what might be done 
going forward.
    The lack of clarity of lanes with the schools is very 
understandable. Again, these are primarily different from the 
environment of a military unit where servicemembers serve. 
These are high school students who are living a high school 
student's life, and one elective throughout their day may be 
the Junior ROTC program.
    So, in that context the schools offer to them resources for 
immediate reporting, for access to local law enforcement, et 
cetera. Title IX with Department of Education will bring more 
resources to bear to ensure that they're meeting all of the 
requirements set forth in the statutes there.
    As we go forward, we'll look to standardize again not just 
the MOAs but the reporting procedure to ensure that it includes 
everybody, from the school all the way up through us and the 
Department of Education.
    And then with regard to standardization of the process for 
response to allegations, the services can address when we go 
down the line, Mr. Chairman. But I will say that one standard 
is that when allegations are made, certifications are 
immediately suspended. When allegations are substantiated, 
those certifications are then permanently withdrawn. So, any 
case that doesn't get through, we would have to look into to 
find the specific details of that case.
    Mr. Lynch. Thank you.
    I have exhausted my time. And I would now recognize the 
ranking member, the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Grothman, for 
five minutes.
    Mr. Grothman. Yes, the statistics show that you're far 
worse than a regular school. And there's not maybe the 
appropriate alarm here in your testimony.
    Mr. Hogue, why are you worse than an average school 
district that hires teachers? Why are we so far behind even 
that standard?
    Mr. Hogue. Mr. Grothman, thank you for the question.
    I don't know the numbers that you're speaking of. I'm 
sorry. I can't speak with any familiarity of how we stack up 
against regular high schools and allegations that are faced 
within districts concerning teachers.
    But I assure you we are very alarmed at every instance 
that's reported in The New York Times article or that we've 
become aware of otherwise.
    Mr. Grothman. That's what it says here. Do any of you even 
know that you're worse than an average school district? Would 
you be more afraid to put your kid in a JROTC program than a 
regular school? None of you ever heard that before?
    Mr. Hogue. Mr. Grothman, if I could, I visited some of our 
JROTC units last week in preparation for this hearing to make 
sure that I had some understanding of what the conditions look 
like in local units. And I had this conversation with two 
principals. In both cases those principals said to me 23 
instances out of 100,000 students. Of course, that's not good. 
But in our particular county, we have many more allegations 
against teachers.
    I didn't do anything to hunt down those numbers, sir. But 
that was the response I got at the local level.
    Mr. Grothman. Just so I understand we're not being tricked 
here, there are, I assume, way more teachers than JROTC 
instructors.
    Mr. Hogue. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Grothman. Are you talking about a percentage basis or 
just a total basis more?
    Mr. Hogue. Sir, I didn't attempt to get any further 
clarification from the principals I spoke with.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. Then you're giving me statistics that are 
meaningless.
    You mentioned you removed people from the classroom. Are 
they criminally referred or not? Or if you discover something 
like this, do you just say move to another state or whatever?
    Mr. Hogue. Sir, when we receive the information from the 
schools--generally it is from the schools that we receive the 
information--we immediately suspend the certification of the 
instructors involved and cooperate with the school districts in 
the investigation of the incidents. Those investigations are 
conducted locally and are under local law enforcement 
supervision. We are not directly responsible for those 
investigations.
    However, if the matter is not resolved to our satisfaction, 
it is very likely that an instructor's certification would 
remain suspended.
    Mr. Grothman. Well, of the 58, how many have been 
criminally charged?
    Mr. Hogue. Sir, 23 of those belong to the Department of the 
Navy and my recollection is 11. I can get a better number for 
you, followup with that.
    Mr. Grothman. Ms. Bourcicot, how many of yours were 
criminally charged?
    Ms. Bourcicot. Mr. Grothman, we've had 40 allegations of a 
sexual nature, sexual misconduct. We had 32 instances that were 
substantiated. Those instructors were decertified. Two were 
unsubstantiated, and we have 12 that are pending. I will return 
to the committee to followup about which ones were criminally 
charged.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. We should know that because, obviously, 
if someone molests children in your setting they can probably 
go on in life and molest children in other settings, right, 
unless something is done.
    OK. I want to start with some other questions.
    Are there any patterns regarding locations, demographics, 
age, gender of sexual misconduct allegations? Can you break 
those down in any fashion?
    Mr. Constable. Mr. Grothman, we don't have today available 
the specifics on the demographics. But we understood your 
question from the prep session, and we're going to have to get 
back to with you a better answer on how the statistics break 
out.
    Mr. Grothman. OK.
    Mr. Constable. Again, the nature of gathering that 
information is very sensitively held.
    Mr. Grothman. Well, I would think you would have it in 
today's world, but OK.
    Investigations of allegations of this nature are led by 
local law enforcement and school officials. Can you explain the 
importance of that structure?
    Mr. Constable. I'm sorry, Mr. Grothman. Could you repeat 
the question?
    Mr. Grothman. Investigations of allegations of this nature 
are led by local law enforcement and school officials. Can you 
explain the importance of the structure of doing it that way?
    Mr. Constable. Yes, sir. We would not have the access or 
ability or authority to prosecute, of course, obviously, or to 
investigate at a local level within a high school for a high 
school employee, even that includes a JROTC instructor.
    When the allegations are made, the school is notified. The 
programs are notified a little differently for each of the 
services. And so, we are aware so we can pull the 
certification.
    But as to the criminal element of the allegations, those 
are best dealt with by the local law authorities.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. Just one more question but we'll beg the 
chairman's patience.
    Ms. Bourcicot, there are in raw data a significantly higher 
number of these problems in the Army than the other services. 
Maybe that's because there are just a lot more kids in the Army 
JROTC. Is there a reason or explanation for that?
    Ms. Bourcicot. Mr. Grothman, yes, that's correct. The Army 
has by far the most programs at 1,707. We have 276,000 
students. And so, we just have the majority of the instructors. 
We have over 4,000 instructors. So, we have the biggest 
program.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Lynch. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
    During this committee's work, we have worked extensively 
with members of several other committees, HASC, the House Armed 
Services Committee, and others. And there have been a number of 
women Members who have stepped forward and really been true 
champions in protecting members of the military from sexual 
abuse, and we're going to hear from several of them today.
    One of those is Ms. Wasserman Schultz of Florida, who has 
done heroic work in this area, and she is now recognized for 
five minutes.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I 
appreciate your kindness.
    And thank you to you for having this really important 
discussion and focus on a critical issue, because for more than 
a century, for example, the JROTC programs have sought to 
instill U.S. military values in American teens, classes in 
thousands of public schools across the country.
    Yet the military-certified instructors who oversee these 
impressionable young people deployed to classrooms with very 
little oversight or training. And I find this issue 
particularly concerning as my home state of Florida has more 
JROTC programs than any other state but Texas.
    In Florida, a JROTC instructor was charged with sexual 
battery after driving one of his students home. And to compound 
the tragedy, that student was then denied admittance to the 
Coast Guard due to the trauma that she suffered. And this is 
just one case out of many.
    In September, while appearing before the Senate Armed 
Services Committee, Stephanie Miller, the Deputy Assistant 
Secretary of Defense for Military Personnel Policy, testified 
that the Defense Department needs to, quote, ``take a hard look 
at our current background investigation process for JROTC 
instructors.''
    Mr. Constable, what specific steps or changes has the 
Department considered to improve its background investigation 
process for new instructors? And have any of those changes been 
implemented?
    Mr. Constable. Thank you, ma'am.
    The answer is the services presently use different but 
similar background investigations for each of their 
instructors, but they all go through a known otherwise used 
certification process.
    Going forward, our very first recommendation is to take a 
look at how we do those certifications, those background 
investigations to see if we can't standardize what goes in.
    And with regard to the period of instruction that each 
instructor must go through before being certified as a JROTC 
instructor----
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Reclaiming my time, because I don't 
really have much of it.
    It sounds like you are still in the consideration stage and 
have not yet begun to recommend specific steps or changes nor 
implemented anything. Is that right?
    Mr. Constable. That's right, ma'am. I'd say it's on the 
short list.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. The short list? Really? What's the 
timeframe for the short list to be actually executed--
implemented and executed?
    Mr. Constable. Well, ma'am, of course I can't get ahead of 
the Secretary, but our intent is to put forward recommendations 
for some of these changes this calendar year.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. You do realize that there are young 
people being abused and that inappropriate conduct is pretty 
rampant and that this is pretty urgent. So, I would think it 
should be at the top of the short list.
    Mr. Constable. And there it is. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Will you convey that to the 
Secretary?
    Mr. Constable. Yes, ma'am. Understand.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. OK.
    It doesn't really sound like there's a tremendous amount of 
urgency.
    Ms. Bourcicot, you also stated in your written testimony 
that the Army needs to improve its vetting process for JROTC 
instructors. Specifically, you testified that, quote, ``The 
Army recognizes this is an underreported crime and extra care 
in the vetting process to include follow-on background checks 
is crucial.''
    Ms. Bourcicot, what improvements is the Army planning to 
make to improve its vetting process for prospective 
instructors?
    Ms. Bourcicot. Congresswoman, we have already moved out as 
far as improving our vetting process. I would like to echo that 
we do share----
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. How? In what way? What specifically 
have you done to improve your vetting process and background 
checks?
    Ms. Bourcicot. So, Congresswoman, right now we're working 
on rolling out our--an annual attestation for existing 
instructors that reminds them of their duty to students to 
uphold the Army values.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. What does that--I'm sorry. 
Reclaiming my time.
    What part of that has anything to do with vetting? I assume 
it's a self-attestation?
    Ms. Bourcicot. That's correct, Congresswoman.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. OK. That's not vetting. You do 
realize that an attestation is not vetting, right?
    Ms. Bourcicot. Yes, ma'am. The Army currently uses the Tier 
I FBI background check, which is the highest level check, for 
all of its instructors. And if there is anything that appears 
in someone's background that needs to go back to Cadet Command 
for additional vetting before an instructor is certified to 
appear in the classroom.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. OK. Reclaiming my time because I 
only have 24 seconds left.
    In your testimony you stated that six years ago the Army 
started requiring all JROTC instructors to undergo a Childcare 
National Agency Check and Inquiry screening, and you said that 
the screening is the, quote, ``cornerstone of the Army's JROTC 
instructor applicant vetting process.''
    But, Mr. Wagner, in your testimony you wrote that the Air 
Force will not require JROTC instructors to pass the same 
Childcare National Agency Check and Inquiry screening until 
April 2023.
    Mr. Wagner, why is the Air Force just now pursuing this 
requirement?
    Mr. Wagner. Congresswoman, thank you for your question.
    I just want to emphasize that we are learning our best 
practices from some of the policies and procedures the Army has 
put into place. We are aggressively moving forward to implement 
that check. That check is on top of a 20-year history for all 
military retirees that in order to be certified as eligible 
instructors is a part of our review.
    We also are making changes immediately to address some of 
the vetting issues that you articulated, one of which is we've 
noticed a gap with new school administrators who aren't 
familiar with our memorandum of agreement.
    And so, what we have done is we will be providing 
information to all new school administrators about the terms of 
what the Air Force's obligations are, as well as what the 
school's obligations are.
    We're expanding the training modules online and virtual 
that our instructors are required to complete. And we're 
putting in new processes and programs into our weeklong onsite 
training process prior to them receiving their ability----
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I'm sorry. Mr. Chairman, I've heard 
nothing about additional vetting or background checks or making 
sure that we don't have people with a dangerous history 
responsible for supervising children. It's really troubling 
that so many bad actors appear to have slipped through the 
JROTC instructor vetting process.
    And I don't understand why the Department of Defense and 
military services have not used this opportunity, now that this 
has been revealed, that they should have known already, to make 
sure that they have processes and procedures that ensure that 
we don't have predators who are supervising our young people in 
the JROTC program.
    This is shocking. I don't understand how this has not been 
treated with urgency. And you have work to do.
    And I appreciate the opportunity to shed light on this 
issue because we are endangering, the military is endangering 
our Nation's youth who are in this program without making sure 
we have the vetting and background checks that are essential to 
ensure that we have people who are safe to be in these roles.
    Thank you for the indulgence, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Lynch. The chair, first of all, I appreciate the 
passion and the point that you have put your finger on. And 
there is great disparity in terms of the vetting process. I did 
note that in some of the opening statements reference was made 
to the FBI vetting process which had been adopted by one 
perhaps of the branches. However, that must be made uniform, 
and it must be enhanced. And I would embrace any effort that 
the gentlelady from Florida would have in terms of legislation 
to that end.
    So, again, I appreciate all her energy and focus on this 
issue, and I acknowledge that she has been doing this for an 
awfully long time.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Lynch. Next, we have the gentlelady from North 
Carolina. Ms. Foxx is recognized for five minutes.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Bourcicot, in your opening statement you explain that 
there were 26 allegations of sexual misconduct against 
instructors in Army JROTC programs. Of those 26 allegations, 25 
instructors were decertified.
    Does the Army typically wait for the results of 
investigations into misconduct allegations before decertifying 
an instructor? If so, are there options to temporarily suspend 
an instructor's certification?
    Ms. Bourcicot. Congresswoman, the Army flags anyone who is 
under investigation, which means that they can't have any 
positive personnel actions taken on their behalf while they're 
under investigation. They're immediately removed from the 
classroom pending that investigation. And after the outcome is 
learned, then they are decertified.

    Ms. Foxx. And does the Army have options to remove 
instructors from the classrooms--you just indicated that--or is 
it entirely up to the school to do that?
    Ms. Bourcicot. Congresswoman, we have strong partnerships 
with our school districts, and we work with them to remove 
JROTC instructors that are under investigation from the 
classrooms.
    Ms. Foxx. Mr. Wagner, in your opening statement you said 
that differing school district background check requirements 
present a vulnerability. And the chairman just mentioned about 
the FBI vetting process and that the Air Force is adopting the 
quote, ``Childcare National Agency Check and Inquiries 
background investigations requirements for all Air Force JROTC 
instructors and applicants as a way to address this 
vulnerability.''
    Will this background check system be utilized prior to an 
applicant's placement in a school? And how does this system 
differ from what the Air Force has used until now?
    Mr. Wagner. Congresswoman, this process is now on top of 
our current vetting process. All Air Force JROTC instructors 
have a military records check, which is a comprehensive review 
of a 20-year military career in which an instructor was 
conclusively discharged honorably.
    We are now adopting this background check, which is the 
gold standard used by schools across the country and the Army, 
which includes, as the chairman referenced earlier, an FBI 
background check as part of it--this is the National Agency 
check--prior to any instructor eligibility for certification.
    Then, once a certified and eligible instructor is hired by 
a local school, then they undergo that local school's 
individual background check, which is done in the same way that 
they would perform for any other instructor.
    Ms. Foxx. OK. A followup, Mr. Wagner. Does the Air Force 
have a mechanism in place where a student can report misconduct 
directly to the services? And, if so, how are students informed 
of that option?
    Mr. Wagner. So, The New York Times article shined a light 
on some of the gaps in our program. And as you identified, 
while we have a website that has information for people to 
reach out to Air Force JROTC headquarters, it's not sufficient.
    And so, what we have done is we have already taken steps to 
modify the parental consent form that parents and cadets sign 
at the beginning of the school year to include specific 
information on how to reach Air Force JROTC headquarters with 
any concerns.
    Ms. Foxx. Mr. Hogue, what about the Navy?
    Mr. Hogue. Congresswoman, it is possible for an individual 
cadet to reach out directly to a JROTC program manager or to 
the program directly to make an allegation.
    However, I have to say, the units that I visited, the 
principals are very clear. They view investigations and 
allegations related to that kind of misconduct as inside-the-
building issues with school employees that they very much feel 
ownership of, and to some degree we have to rely on their 
reports to us to engage our processes.
    But to your other question to my colleagues, we do have the 
ability and do, in fact, suspend certification of instructors 
upon receiving allegations, and that removes them from the 
classrooms, after which we work with the partner schools to 
ensure students are safe and that the program is running well 
before anything else happens with that instructor.
    Ms. Foxx. And, Mr. Constable, for the other services, can 
students report directly?
    Mr. Constable. Every student has some means to report, some 
directly through the local program, some all the way through 
higher commands through the hierarchical structure like Ms. 
Bourcicot has described.
    One of the policy directives that we have penned out going 
forward will be to ensure that there's an acknowledgement that 
students, parents have all the necessary information to report 
these incidents and allegations directly.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Lynch. The gentlelady yields back.
    The chair now recognizes the gentlelady from California, 
Ms. Speier, who is the chair of the House Armed Services 
Committee Subcommittee on Military Personnel and who I have 
worked with extensively on this issue.
    I was able to be a member of her congressional delegation 
that investigated this same issue at Fort Hood, Texas. But she 
has been the leader on this issue in the U.S. Congress.
    The gentlelady from California is recognized for five 
minutes.
    Ms. Speier. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Let me 
applaud you for holding this hearing.
    I'm not going to sugarcoat this. This is a scandal, and 
it's one that each and every one of you need to take ownership 
of.
    It is chilling to think that after we have been addressing 
this issue for over 10 years within the military, where we know 
that cases exceed 20 to thirty thousand a year and only five 
thousand report, and we know that the chain of command has been 
part of the problem, to come and see this going on in our 
classrooms in high school is--it's traumatizing to me, to be 
quite honest.
    You have known about this since 2017. Cases date back to 
2017. But for The New York Times article, we would know nothing 
about this. And you're relying on what they found out in The 
New York Times investigation to somehow inform you of what you 
should be doing.
    When you saw these cases coming up in 2017, 2018, 2019, 
2020, 2021, why didn't someone raise the alarm that we have a 
huge problem? These are a half a million kids and we spend a 
half a billion dollars. And to somehow suggest that, well, it's 
up to the schools and we've got to let local law enforcement 
handle this, that's, frankly, BS.
    And I think there needs to be an absolute comprehensive 
review. Because let me tell you what happens. Lackland Air 
Force Base is a great example. There were 30 military training 
instructors with these 17-, 18-, 19-year-olds that were 
sexually assaulting over 60 of their trainees. Not one of the 
trainees came forward to report, because they wanted to just 
get out of the training program and move on.
    So, to start with, I think every one of these individuals 
who have been decertified, I think you need to go back in each 
of your services and determine, by interviewing the young ROTC 
students who were taught by that particular individual, whether 
or not they were sexually harassed or assaulted by him, because 
we don't know the depth of this. We've got 60 cases. I can't 
begin to think how many young people are impacted. And you've 
got to take ownership of it.
    Beyond that, I think that most of these people are former 
military. Is that correct? Would you say 100 percent are former 
military? All right. We've got 100 percent former military.
    Many of these same individuals were sexually harassing and 
assaulting in the military. Cases were swept under the rug. 
They were predators. They got away with it. There's probably 
not going to be an FBI record on them. So don't think that that 
alone is going to provide any counsel or security to you or to 
the families.
    And in some respects I feel we should just shut down this 
program until you can get it right. I don't want another kid to 
be sexually harassed or assaulted. That will stay with them the 
rest of their lives. You've known about this and done nothing 
about it since 2017 that we know of.
    So, I want to know to what extent you can then bring these 
so-called instructors who were former military back into the 
military, have them reviewed, separated for unprofessional 
conduct, and have their pensions stripped. That's what I think 
should happen.
    I don't know if we can legally do that. And if we can't 
presently do that, I hope my colleagues will think about ways 
of promoting that in future Congresses.
    But this is beyond repugnant, and you have got to take 
ownership.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Lynch. The gentlelady yields back.
    The chair now recognizes the distinguished gentleman from 
Texas, Mr. Fallon, for five minutes.
    Mr. Fallon. Mr. Chairman, you are very grateful.
    And to my colleagues, I want to thank everyone, 
particularly the chair, for allowing me to waive on to the 
subcommittee today to discuss a matter of great importance to 
our national security.
    I myself am a product of the University of Notre Dame's Air 
Force ROTC program, and it's an experience that I'm incredibly 
grateful for. It's a program that it's not surprising to me 
that benefits so many, about a half a million young men and 
women in our country. I'm surprised to learn there's 3,500 
units across the country.
    And what JROTC does is it allows students an introduction 
to military life and values and service and provides a 
structure and skill sets and it instills that strong sense of 
duty and personal sacrifice and teamwork. This is very 
important.
    And it's so terribly unfortunate that this incredible 
program has been besmirched by predators. And make no mistake, 
sexual harassment and abuse, as we all know, has no place in 
our military, especially in Junior ROTC. And the scum who 
harmed these youths deserve nothing but the full force of the 
law and justice.
    The safety of our students participating in Junior ROTC is 
paramount to a successful program. And I'm glad and thank you, 
Mr. Chairman, for having this hearing.
    I sit on the House Armed Services Committee, and we have 
spent a lot of time examining the issues of military 
recruitment. So, I just wanted to take a bit of a different 
tack, because it concerns me that only one percent of our adult 
population in this country serve in the military. And the DOD 
has reported recently that 77 percent of young men and women 
between the ages of 16 and 20 are ineligible for military 
service. In fact, 52 percent of Generation Z has no interest 
and desire at all and has never even considered serving.
    So, across the board, we're having trouble with recruiting. 
The Army missed their recruiting goals by 10,000. It's expected 
to be even worse this year. The Navy missed their recruiting 
goals across all components by about 2,000. The Air Force met 
their Active-Duty goal but only by a little bit of creative 
accounting with delayed entry, and they missed their Reserve 
Component goals entirely.
    So, folks, we're at a critical juncture and we're facing 
really an impending crisis. In 1980, 18 percent of our 
population were veterans; 2018, it's down to seven percent.
    So Junior ROTC is playing a critical role, and it's one of 
the few places where young people can have positive and 
instructive interactions with our military services. And that's 
why this hearing is so important, because it's under threat.
    So, for the sake of student safety and military 
recruitment, both of which are matters of national security, 
I'm calling for greater oversight and transparency within the 
Junior ROTC program. It's a role that's become more important 
because of the facts that we've shared and as it relates vis-`-
vis to recruitment as well. Instructors need to be held 
accountable, and the reputation of our military services needs 
to be protected.
    Mr. Constable, what is each of the services doing to create 
an environment of positive interaction and engagement with 
Junior ROTC with the broader civilian population?
    Mr. Constable. Congressman, thank you, and thank you for 
your service. I didn't understand you were an Air Force vet, so 
thank you for your service and continued service.
    The services do engage. I think it would be best if you'll 
indulge me to allow the services to speak to how each of them 
does it within their service. Thank you.
    Mr. Fallon. OK. Thank you.
    Ms. Bourcicot. Mr. Fallon, first of all, I would like to 
start by saying that we share your concern and the concern of 
your colleagues on the subcommittee. We are working this 
problem. We are taking this very, very seriously. We understand 
the effect this has on the reputation of the Junior ROTC 
program and on the services writ large and the effect that it's 
having on recruitment.
    That said, the ROTC, the Junior ROTC programs are a staple 
of the community. I mentioned how many millions of hours the 
cadets undertake in community service. It's a core part of 
those programs. It really does go a long way to instill a sense 
of citizenship, a sense of community, a duty to country.
    And they engage in activities as varied as adopting 
highways, cleaning up schools. There's a number of ways that 
Junior ROTC cadets are encouraged to interface with their 
communities in the Army program.
    Mr. Fallon. And as far as the other branches, is it pretty 
much the same or is there anything different that wasn't just 
articulated?
    Mr. Hogue. Sir, if I could, very similar to what the Army's 
and I'm sure what my colleague from the Air Force would also 
add.
    Can I just add on top of that, we understand the challenge. 
We do. And we do take it very seriously, although it may appear 
from the newspaper articles that's not the case. We do take it 
very seriously.
    We understand that we're attempting to draw from this pool 
or hoping to draw from this pool for future recruits and 
leaders of this country and of our services.
    With respect to how we ensure that they're safe to engage 
at the school level, if I understood your question correctly, 
each of our instructors does receive some training about how to 
engage and how to relate at the local.
    But, in my opinion, this is one of the areas where we need 
to focus a little bit more strongly. And within the Department 
of the Navy, I have asked my teams to begin doing just that, to 
ensure that how we impart to the instructors the importance of 
maintaining professional mentorship distance and yet remain 
relatable to the teens is extremely important. And we are 
attempting to focus on it and get after that, sir.
    Mr. Wagner. Congressman, similarly, we have taken proactive 
steps already to address some of your concerns. We're now 
requiring an instructor prohibited activities form that will be 
now signed annually by all instructors.
    But taking a step back, I think one of the things I wanted 
to emphasize is that I share your interest in this growing 
civil-military divide. And the Air Force views this principally 
not as a recruiting program but a citizenship program, one that 
helps cadets, young people develop a sense of confidence, real 
skills, an understanding of discipline, and, critically, a 
familiarity with the military that in some cases might be their 
only experience throughout most of their lives with military 
culture and military life.
    And I think viewing this through the citizenship lens 
underscores why this program is just absolutely so critical. As 
this civil-military divide grows--you know, next year is the 
50th anniversary of the All-Volunteer force. And we're looking 
aggressively to take steps to help narrow that civil-military 
divide, and a successful JROTC program where every student 
feels safe is at the core of doing that.
    Mr. Fallon. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I yield 
back.
    Mr. Lynch. The gentleman yields back.
    The chair once more recognizes one of our members who has 
done extraordinary work in this regard. While she is a member 
of the House Armed Services Committee and brings that 
perspective, she also brings the perspective of an Air Force 
captain.
    So, the chair recognizes the gentlelady from Pennsylvania, 
Ms. Houlahan, for five minutes.
    Ms. Houlahan. Thank you. I appreciate that, Mr. Chair. And 
thank you very much for the opportunity to waive on.
    I also really want to associate myself with Chairwoman 
Speier's comments as well. One of the things I was struck by, 
having been in ROTC myself and served in the Air Force, is I 
remember the people who led me. And they were almost to a 
person people who had formerly worn the uniform or were 
currently wearing the uniform.
    And so, I am very much confused by the fact that these, 
theoretically, are people who have been vetted, who have a deep 
history of service, and, theoretically, we should know about 
their backgrounds. And so, I'd like to sort of put that over 
here.
    I also was struck by, Mr. Wagner, you were the only one who 
mentioned possibly some sort of emphasis on women, and I think 
your words were a female instructor corps. So, I'd love it if 
you could kind of drill down a little on what a female 
instructor corps is, since 20 percent of our servicemembers are 
women and increasing to about 30 percent we anticipate within 
the decade. Is there something there, having only had one woman 
ever been in my ROTC cadre?
    Go ahead. Thank you.
    Mr. Wagner. Congresswoman, this is exactly some of the 
steps that we've taken since The Times showed a light on this 
program. And I looked at it and I asked our folks at 
headquarters, we have a 50 percent population of women, we've 
got a growing number, upwards of 25 percent in the Air Force, 
and yet our instructor corps is 92 percent male. Our female 
cadets are 40 percent female. We've got the wrong balance. And 
I think aligning that gender disparity better will have a 
significant impact on this program.
    One of the key questions and concerns of this committee is 
that cadets feel like they have nowhere to turn. A hundred 
percent, by the way, of the victims are female and a hundred 
percent in the Air Force of the perpetrators were male. If 
they----
    Ms. Houlahan. So, if I might be able to interrupt. What is 
this cadre or corps of women? Have you implemented it yet? Is 
it in existence or is it just a thought or an idea?
    Mr. Wagner. So, when the article came out and we did our 
own review, one of the first questions I asked was, tell me the 
program demographics.
    Tomorrow I'm flying down to Air Force JROTC headquarters in 
Montgomery, Alabama, and we're going to work on a plan. I've 
asked them to come up with ideas. I'm going to help them shape 
and sharpen that plan. I think this will have immediate 
tangible impacts on the safety of cadets in this program.
    Ms. Houlahan. So, I would like Mr. Constable maybe to 
elevate that as being something as a best practice, something 
that we should be implementing. My experience with our JROTC 
programs in places like Coatesville High School in my district 
are that they are majority--first of all, majority minority 
and, second of all, majority women.
    And I think that it is important that we make sure that the 
people, not only for their own safety but also for them being 
able to see themselves in the people who are leading them, that 
there be more of an emphasis on women who are helping in that 
leadership.
    With what remains of my time, Secretary Constable, I would 
like to sort of highlight some of The New York Times article, 
which spoke a little bit about the training. As near as I 
understand it, the training is simply a two-week military 
training course, and of that training it has to do with 
supplies and books and teacher-student boundaries, and very, 
very briefly,
    Having also been a teacher--I was a former high school 
chemistry teacher--I can tell you that there's a whole lot more 
to teaching than just what happens in your lesson planning.
    What have you learned? And is there anything that you are 
changing in the weeks that you have in training to focus more 
on boundaries in student relationships?
    Mr. Constable. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    Absolutely. Going forward, as I said, standardization is 
our watchword. And certainly, as we take a look to 
standardizing the training that each instructor must receive, 
we want to make sure it's the right amount of training and, of 
course, that it's the right things.
    And clearly, the logistics of signing for textbooks is 
probably not paramount. And we will ensure going forward that 
the training is comprehensive enough to address the sensitive 
issues.
    Ms. Houlahan. With what remains of my time, sir, could you 
share with me a little bit of the DOD approval process for 
instructors? Again, really confused and conflicted by the fact 
that they largely are people who are serving or have served in 
uniform previously.
    Mr. Constable. Indeed, they are. They are a hundred percent 
people who have served honorably and retired from the military.
    The services, each of the services has a process by which a 
retiree applies for certification as a JROTC instructor. They 
go through the background check and the requisite checks for 
each of the services. And when they have met the standards, 
they are then certified as instructors. That includes the 
training. And they are offered up then as candidates for 
schools to hire as a certified JROTC instructor.
    Ms. Houlahan. With my last 15 seconds, if you would indulge 
me. Pennsylvania, which is where I come from, has a proactive 
program that monitors for teachers' arrests, which includes 
JROTC instructors, through our public data bases. My 
understanding is there's no national equivalent or tracking 
system for that kind of a process.
    For you, sir, Mr. Constable, would this sort of a model be 
useful for the DOD in oversight of JROTC? And should we be 
working with the Department of Education to ensure this better 
coordination and transparency?
    Mr. Constable. Congresswoman, that is definitely something 
we are looking at. I believe we owe members of the committee a 
response to that by the end of the month. And it is something 
that we discuss, and it's certainly something that would have 
huge value to it.
    Ms. Houlahan. Thank you for the indulgence, Mr. Chairman. I 
yield back.
    Mr. Lynch. The gentlelady yields back.
    The chair now recognizes one more of the courageous and 
energetic women who have been working on this issue for some 
time. I recently was down in Fort Hood, Texas. And she had been 
very active on a case of a young woman, Vanessa Guillen, who 
was her constituent, and who has been very, very active on this 
issue.
    The chair now recognizes the gentlewoman from Texas, Ms. 
Garcia, for five minutes.
    Ms. Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for 
allowing me to waive in.
    And Vanessa Guillen, for the record, was in ROTC at her--at 
one of our local high schools, Chavez High School. And we know 
that there are ROTC programs around the country, and I think 
it's worth mentioning that 70 percent of them are in the South 
at high-poverty Title I schools, much like Chavez High School 
and other high schools in my district. So, this has not just an 
impact on anyone that joins the ROTC but, more specifically, it 
impacts minority women.
    So, I have many concerns about this. And, quite frankly, 
I'm just almost flabbergasted at the lack of real action coming 
from the Department of Defense and all the military branches.
    Five years. Five years. Representative Speier mentioned 
it's been going on since 2017, five years, but it wasn't until 
a New York Times article comes out that you all are maybe--and 
I'm saying maybe reacting, because, quite frankly, with no 
disrespect to anyone, it just doesn't appear to me that, 
although you say you're outraged, I'm just not feeling it.
    You know, five years is a long time. The article came out I 
think it was August or September. And all that we can really 
specifically mention is the childcare testing and maybe 
increasing vetting. But I still didn't hear specifics.
    Mr. Constable, you said you had a short list. I mean, what 
does that mean? Just a short list? We're talking about young 
women potentially being sexually assaulted and sexually abused. 
I saw the list that Ms. Speier just shared with me. There's 
many. They are from Texas. That makes me even more concerned.
    Now, are you all aware of the letter that Ms. Speier and I 
sent in September to Secretary Austin and Secretary Del Toro, 
Wormuth, and Kendall?
    I mean, why do you all have a short list? I mean, we sent 
you all a list of about six or seven items. Have all these 
items made your short list? Will there be a data base from the 
Department of Defense tracking some of these instructors to 
make sure that they're no longer certified and no longer 
handling any of the children involved? Can we create a 
regulation that requires schools to send at least two school 
district-approved adults?
    I mean, I could go through the list, but we'll enter it for 
the record.
    Have any of these items made your short list? And, if so, 
when are we going to see real action? And I want specifics.
    Mr. Constable.
    Mr. Constable. Congresswoman, thank you.
    So there has been action; never enough. Immediately 
following the article, Mr. Cisneros, the Under Secretary for 
Personnel and Readiness, issued a directive to each of the 
services directing the Under Secretaries to take stock of all 
of their programs, engage personally with each of their 
programs, review every one of the memoranda of agreement that 
outlined the terms of the instructors in each of the schools.
    Following up on that and having received your letter, 
ma'am, along with others, those are the topics that are forming 
the discussions within a working group across the Department.
    As we put together a--my term--``short list,'' what I'm 
saying is we're looking for the things that we can do now 
versus the things that we can do down the road working with 
education and schools.
    Ms. Garcia. But can you be specific? I mean, what is on 
this magic list that you have?
    Mr. Constable. So, the policy initiatives that we look for 
toward primarily when I say the short list, again, speak to 
standardization, first to standardized background 
investigation, then to standardize the oversight ratio and the 
manner in which we apply the oversight for each of the 
departments.
    Third would be to standardize memorandums of agreement. 
Right now, they're very similar, but a standardization will 
ensure that we have a process that we can inspect against 
regularly.
    Some of the self-acknowledgement with regard to instructor-
prohibited activities to just act as a reminder, intermittent 
reminder of their moral obligation in the classroom.
    Ms. Garcia. Is there anything in your list that's a 
directive to all the branches for uniformity in the background 
check and the testing?
    Mr. Constable. So, decisions have not been reached on 
whether we're going to do that now. Each of the services----
    Ms. Garcia. Why?
    Mr. Constable. So, it is a recommendation that will go 
forward, ma'am. Right now, everybody runs a sanctioned 
background investigation that's used for other purposes. We 
believe going forward the standard one will look something more 
like the childcare one that Air Force uses, something like 
that. But I think we want to make sure that we're not leaving 
any aspects of the other ones that the other services might be 
using behind, so we're doing that analysis now.
    Ms. Garcia. Well, it just appears to me that the general 
guidelines, if you will, and I think you call them directives, 
should be firm directives about what must be done to address 
this issue that all the branches follow rather than each branch 
doing their own thing.
    It just seems to me that every service person and every 
member of the ROTC should be treated equally and have the same 
access to a complaint system and to be able to talk to someone. 
It just completely baffles me the way that it appears that this 
is being handled. And it's just very, very disappointing to see 
that it's taking a New York Times article after five years of 
these cases going on for you all to act on something.
    And I would expect, Mr. Chairman, that we would get a 
report on what specific action is being taken with firm 
timelines, because otherwise we've seen that the Army failed 
Vanessa Guillen.
    And it appears to me that right now all the branches are 
failing our ROTC programs. And that's our pipeline. And you're 
impacting Title I, poverty area, minority students, and that's 
totally unacceptable.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Lynch. Let me just respond to the gentlelady's remarks, 
and I fully agree.
    What I would suggest is that we will collectively--as you 
probably remember, the Under Secretary, Gil Cisneros, is a 
former Member and someone who I traveled with down to Fort Hood 
and who joined our review of those cases involving both Vanessa 
Guillen and also Sergeant Elder Fernandes, who was from my 
district, who tragically took his own life after a reported 
sexual assault.
    And I would suggest that we have a bipartisan briefing with 
Under Secretary Cisneros, we lay out a plan. And I know there 
are separate plans at various stages of progress ongoing.
    But there is a need to harmonize at the highest standard, 
for instance, the FBI vetting process. Do we have an enhanced 
vetting process that is suitable to all of our entities here? 
Is there a way to optimize and collect best practices that are 
recognized by the JROTC sector in each branch?
    Is there a way to provide the greatest level of protection, 
not only from the vetting standpoint, but also the education 
standpoint, the accountability standpoint, and educating these 
students so that they know that they are protected if they do 
need to come forward with allegations of abuse?
    So all of that needs to be addressed and needs to be put on 
a hard timeline. And I think that this is something we can work 
on in a bipartisan fashion, in a deliberate timeframe. But 
we're going to be looking for hard deadlines to get this stuff 
implemented and adopted.
    So, with that, I'd like to thank our witnesses for their 
testimony today.
    Ms. Garcia. Mr. Chairman, I did have some opening remarks 
that I didn't do because in the interest of time and to ask 
some questions. I'd like to submit those for the record.
    And also, some questions that I had with regard to 
oversight of the facilities where some of these programs are 
run. I had a complaint from one of my local high schools, and I 
toured the facility. I mean, it was really deplorable. And I 
know they defer to the school districts, but I think there 
should be an oversight role for the Department of Defense and 
the different sources. So, I'd like to submit some questions 
for the record.
    Mr. Lynch. Well, certainly. Without objection, so ordered.
    Ms. Garcia. Thank you.
    Mr. Lynch. We welcome your remarks and questions.
    And just on a point of common agreement, my three major 
cities that have the most active JROTC programs are Boston, 
Brockton, and Quincy. And being familiar with the JROTC 
programs in those cities, I am aware that more than half of the 
cadets in those programs are people of color, young cadets who 
come from families that are struggling economically and that 
have a greater need, I think, for support, sustenance, and 
direction.
    So, we have to make sure that we are cognizant of that 
fact, and we appreciate that fact and that we structure our 
response in a way that is focused on that existing 
vulnerability, in a way that does greater service to those 
young people and those families, because I think we've all seen 
what can happen when things go wrong.
    I do note the arrival of the full committee chairwoman. And 
the chair would recognize, if desired, the gentlelady from New 
York for five minutes.
    Mrs. Maloney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I'd like to ask some questions about whether or not you 
have sufficient funding for sufficient staff to do adequate 
oversight. I'm concerned that the military services do not have 
the necessary resources in place to conduct effective oversight 
for the approximately 3,500 JROTC units currently operating in 
high schools across our country.
    So, I'd like to ask, Mr. Wagner, in your written testimony 
you stated that the Air Force currently employs nine regional 
directors who each oversee 97 Air Force JROTC units. That is 
not a recipe for effective oversight. It sounds like you're 
understaffed to me.
    Ms. Bourcicot, how many staff positions does the Army 
currently have in place to oversee its 1,700 JROTC programs? 
Ms. Bourcicot?
    Ms. Bourcicot. Chairwoman Maloney, I will, with your 
indulgence, take that question for the record. I know that 
there are eight brigades that report for JROTC and the Cadet 
Command, but I'm not sure of the exact number.
    Mrs. Maloney. OK. Mr. Hogue, can you provide the number for 
the Navy?
    Mr. Hogue. Ma'am, if I could, like Ms. Bourcicot, I'd like 
to take the question for the record. But I will assure you, in 
each structure we have a program manager, we have a regional 
director, area managers, and then we have additionally two 
instructors in most of our schools as well.
    So, we do have the talent out there to do that. I will 
concede that there are some challenges bringing in additional 
staff. Staffing is tough in these units. And funding would 
contribute to our ability to bring in more staff, no question 
about it.
    Mrs. Maloney. OK. Thank you.
    Mr. Wagner, what impact do infrequent evaluations and 
inspections have on the Air Force's ability to effectively 
identify problems within the individual JROTC units?
    Mr. Wagner. Madam Chairwoman, this is exactly one of the 
reasons why we are currently undertaking a manpower study. The 
97-to-1 regional director to unit ratio is inadequate, it's not 
effective enough, and we've got to do better.
    You've got my commitment that we will. We're looking to 
lower that number to 30 to 1. On-site inspections not every 
three years or so but annually we believe will have an 
appreciable difference. And as we put resources toward this 
program, we think we're going to have better outcomes.
    Mrs. Maloney. Well, that's good news to hear, and we look 
forward to supporting your efforts and funding your efforts.
    Information provided to our committee by DOD and which we 
released this morning shows that the other military services 
are also not consistently evaluating these programs or units in 
accordance with DOD instructions. In fact, the Army reported 
that it only conducted onsite inspections annually for 
approximately a third of its JROTC units.
    And, Ms. Bourcicot, why is the Army unable to evaluate all 
of the units on an annual basis in JROTC?
    Ms. Bourcicot. Chairwoman Maloney, we understand how 
important and valuable our oversight function is, and we are 
working to do better.
    We do have a schedule of inspecting all of the units of 
every third year or so. And we are currently looking, in 
conjunction with our sister services and the Department, about 
ways that we can improve our oversight.
    Like Mr. Wagner, you have my commitment that we will 
provide to this committee information on how we are going to 
get better.
    Mrs. Maloney. OK. If you could add to getting back to us 
what additional resources or personnel would be needed to 
enable you to make evaluations annually, as required by DOD 
instructions.
    So, it's clear that sustained oversight of the JROTC 
program is lacking. I look forward to working with all of you, 
and particularly Chairman Lynch and our Republican colleagues, 
to ensure that we provide the Department of Defense and the 
military services with the necessary tools and funding that you 
need to get the job done. We can't expect you to do a job if 
you're not funded and you don't have the money to have the 
personnel to help you do it.
    So, we look forward to working with you for more effective 
oversight. These are the future leaders of our military, and we 
need to make sure that they are not traumatized and that they 
have positive experiences and that their character and that 
their strength only grows and is not attacked in any way.
    So, I want to thank you for what you do every day to keep 
all of us safe. And we appreciate your military service to our 
country. We are deeply grateful.
    And I yield back.
    Mr. Lynch. The gentlelady yields back.
    In closing, I'd like to thank our witnesses for their 
testimony today. And I appreciate the seriousness with which 
you're all taking this issue, and I am very grateful for the 
energy and attention that so many members on both sides of the 
aisle have put into this issue.
    And I think this hearing has demonstrated that--and from 
your own testimony today--that this is only a first step and 
DOD and the military services still have a long way to go 
toward ensuring the safety and well-being of all our JROTC 
cadets.
    So, it's my expectation that we need to maintain contact. 
We need to stay in touch. You need to stay in touch with our 
subcommittee about the progress you're making in standardizing 
your instructor vetting and training processes, for example, as 
well as the variance in MOUs that the military services reach 
with our host school districts.
    And I would also welcome the opportunity to continue 
working with all of my colleagues who have raised very salient 
points and have offered great suggestions and recommendations 
on where we go next as part of the subcommittee's effort to 
draft legislation in this new Congress that would hold DOD 
accountable for implementing these changes.
    With that, I want to thank our panelists for their remarks. 
I want to commend my colleagues for participating in the 
important conversation that we've had. I look forward to 
working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to 
develop legislative solutions to help ensure the safety and 
well-being of our Nation's JROTC cadets.
    I do notice the ranking member's hand is waving and he 
would like to be recognized, so I'm going to pause my closing 
remarks and give him an opportunity to respond.
    Mr. Grothman. I don't want to have to bang the gavel, so I 
figured I'd get in there before you banged the gavel.
    Thank you for coming over today. To be honest, I was a 
little bit disappointed in things you didn't know, and I was 
disappointed in that I felt there was a lack of sense of 
urgency. I mean, sometimes with the government there's a 
feeling that we have our jobs, we're always going to have our 
jobs, so we can just chug along and not really do things right.
    This is a serious problem. You have a sexual assault 
problem much worse in what really should be better and a safer 
environment in JROTC than private schools. And I hope some of 
that urgency comes across as you answer other questions that 
have been given you. And we will keep monitoring it.
    I mean, like I say, I was at a hearing similar to this when 
I was in the state legislation and I felt the same way, that 
we--there was just a lack of sense of urgency and things you 
should have known that didn't.
    But thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having the hearing.
    Mr. Lynch. I thank the gentleman. The gentleman yields 
back.
    With that, without objection, all members will have five 
legislative days within which to submit additional written 
questions for the witnesses through the chair, which will be 
forwarded to the witnesses for their response.
    I ask our witnesses to please respond as promptly as you 
are able if you receive such a request.
    This hearing is now adjourned. Thank you.
    [Whereupon, at 11:42 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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