    [House Hearing, 117 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                            UNFOLDING THE UNIVERSE:
                            INITIAL SCIENCE RESULTS
                      FROM THE JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                     SUBCOMMITTEE ON SPACE AND AERONAUTICS

                                     OF THE

                          COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE,
                                 AND TECHNOLOGY

                                     OF THE

                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                               NOVEMBER 16, 2022

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 117-71

                                   __________

     Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology

     [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

           Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov

                                ______

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
     49-439PDF          WASHINGTON : 2023

                  COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY

                 HON. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas, Chairwoman
    ZOE LOFGREN, California              FRANK LUCAS, Oklahoma,
    SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon                 Ranking Member
    AMI BERA, California                 MO BROOKS, Alabama
    HALEY STEVENS, Michigan,             BILL POSEY, Florida
        Vice Chair                       RANDY WEBER, Texas
    MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey           BRIAN BABIN, Texas
    JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York              ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
    MELANIE A. STANSBURY, New Mexico     MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida
    BRAD SHERMAN, California             JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana
    ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado              DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida
    JERRY McNERNEY, California           MIKE GARCIA, California
    PAUL TONKO, New York                 STEPHANIE I. BICE, Oklahoma
    BILL FOSTER, Illinois                YOUNG KIM, California
    DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey          RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa
    DON BEYER, Virginia                  JAKE LaTURNER, Kansas
    SEAN CASTEN, Illinois                CARLOS A. GIMENEZ, Florida
    CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania             JAY OBERNOLTE, California
    DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina         PETER MEIJER, Michigan
    GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin                JAKE ELLZEY, TEXAS
    DAN KILDEE, Michigan                 MIKE CAREY, OHIO
    SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
    LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
    VACANCY
                                     ------

                     Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics

                       HON. DON BEYER, Virginia, Chairman
    ZOE LOFGREN, California              BRIAN BABIN, Texas,
    AMI BERA, California                     Ranking Member
    BRAD SHERMAN, California             MO BROOKS, Alabama
    ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado              BILL POSEY, Florida
    DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey          DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida
    VACANCY                              YOUNG KIM, California

                             C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                               November 16, 2022

                                                                       Page

    Hearing Charter..................................................     2

                               Opening Statements

    Statement by Representative Don Beyer, Chairman, Subcommittee on
      Space and Aeronautics, Committee on Science, Space, and
      Technology, U.S. House of Representatives......................     8
        Written Statement............................................     9

    Statement by Representative Brian Babin, Ranking Member,
      Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics, Committee on Science,
      Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........    10
        Written Statement............................................    11

    Written statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson,
      Chairwoman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S.
      House of Representatives.......................................    63

                                   Witnesses:

    Dr. Mark Clampin, Astrophysics Division Director, National
      Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)
        Oral Statement...............................................    13
        Written Statement............................................    16

    Dr. Steven L. Finkelstein, Professor of Astronomy, University of
      Texas at Austin
        Oral Statement...............................................    21
        Written Statement............................................    32

    Dr. Natalie Batalha, Professor of Astronomy and Astrophysics and
      Director of Astrobiology, University of California, Santa Cruz
        Oral Statement...............................................    44
        Written Statement............................................    55

    Discussion.......................................................    63

                            UNFOLDING THE UNIVERSE:

                            INITIAL SCIENCE RESULTS

                      FROM THE JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE

                                  ----------

                          WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 16, 2022

                      House of Representatives,
                 Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics,
                   Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
                                                       Washington, D.C.

        The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:33 a.m., in
    room 2318, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Don Beyer
    [Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Beyer. Good morning. The hearing will come to
    order. We welcome our guests. Without objection, the Chair is
    authorized to declare a recess at any time.
        And before I want to deliver my opening remarks, I want to
    note that, today, the Committee is meeting both in person and
    virtually. And I want to announce a couple of reminders to
    Members about the conduct of this hearing. First, Members and
    staff who are attending in person may choose to be masked, but
    it is not required. And--however, if you--any individual with
    symptoms, a positive test, or exposure to someone with COVID-19
    should wear a mask while present.
        Members who are attending virtually should keep their video
    feed on as long as they are present in the hearing, and Members
    are responsible for their own microphones. Please also keep
    your microphones muted unless you are speaking. And if Members
    have documents they wish to submit for the record, please email
    them to the Committee Clerk, whose email address was circulated
    prior to the hearing.
        I'd also like to note that Subcommittee Chair Suzanne
    Bonamici has asked to wave on to the the elite exclusive Space
    Subcommittee for this meeting. And without objection, she is
    waved on. And if there are other Members who so desire, we'll
    recognize that at the time.
        And before we start, I just want to take a moment to
    recognize the thrilling, first successful test launch of the
    integrated Space Launch System and the Orion crew vehicle
    Artemis 1--very, very exciting, first time in 50 years--Cape
    Canaveral at 1:47 this morning. This is a momentous achievement
    for NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration), for
    Democrats, for Republicans, for the Nation, for the world. It's
    a huge step forward toward sending our astronauts back to the
    Moon and then to Mars. So on the behalf of my colleague Dr.
    Babin and all of our Members of the Space Subcommittee, I want
    to congratulate all those at NASA and its industry and
    international partners on this historic Artemis 1 launch that
    will send Orion on a test flight journey to the Moon and back.
        Now, we get to turn to another thrilling success. Good
    morning and welcome to today's hearing on ``Unfolding the
    Universe: Initial Science Results from the James Webb Space
    Telescope.'' I want to welcome our esteemed panel of witnesses.
    We are so pleased that you're joining us today and you're
    joining us in person, which is a rarity in the last 2 1/2
    years, so very exciting. Most of us are here in person and
    watching it online have seen the awe-inspiring images that
    James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) has, the Tarantula Nebula,
    the Cartwheel Galaxy, the Cosmic Cliffs, Stephan's Quintet,
    just to name a few. The visual impact of JWST's images alone
    with the unprecedented clarity and detail provides an
    inspirational value that I hope will draw a new generation of
    scientists and explorers into astronomy, astrophysics, and the
    sciences.
        Today's hearing will delve into what those stunning images
    tell us. What questions will those mesmerizing pictures answer?
    What new mysteries will they help reveal? And how will JWST's
    observations help us understand how our Universe came to be,
    the birth and evolution of stars, planets, galaxies, and how
    the conditions arose for life to exist on this planet, maybe in
    the solar system, and in this galaxy.
        I'm really eager to hear from our witnesses on what they're
    learning in just the first few months of JWST's science
    operations, which began officially July 12, 2022, because the
    science is just the beginning, but the journey to get here has
    been decades in the making. Recommended as the top priority for
    major new investments in the National Academies of Science,
    Engineering, and Medicine's 2000 Decadal Survey--just 22 years
    ago--for astronomy and astrophysics, JWST's design,
    development, integration, and testing on the ground spanned
    more than 20 years and required 10 technology miracles along
    the way.
        Challenges were many, successes was never a guarantee. Even
    following a successful launch on the Ariane 5 rocket, the
    telescope's complex deployment sequence over 29 days involved
    344 potential single-point failures. So I think we're all very
    proud of the dedication and commitment of the many scientists,
    engineers, international partners, contractors, that brought us
    here to celebrate the first science of JWST--the most powerful
    and complex telescope humans have ever sent into space. And
    while the initial results and first imagery have been nothing
    short of awesome, I'm confident there's much more to come and
    much more than we can even imagine.
        So thank you for being here in person for what I predict
    will be a fascinating discussion.
        [The prepared statement of Chairman Beyer follows:]

        Before we begin, I want to take a moment to recognize the
    thrilling first successful test launch of the integrated Space
    Launch System and Orion crew vehicle-Artemis 1-from Cape
    Canaveral that occurred early this morning. This is a momentous
    achievement for NASA and for the Nation. And it's a huge step
    forward toward sending our astronauts back to the Moon and on
    to Mars. Congratulations to all those at NASA and its industry
    and international partners on this historic Artemis 1 launch
    that will send Orion on a test flight journey to the Moon and
    back.
        Now turning to another thrilling success, good morning, and
    welcome to today's hearing on Unfolding the Universe: Initial
    Science Results from the James Webb Telescope. I also want to
    welcome our esteemed panel of witnesses. We are so pleased you
    are joining us today.
        Most of us here in person and watching online have likely
    seen the awe-inspiring images obtained by the James Webb Space
    Telescope-the Tarantula Nebula, the Cartwheel Galaxy, the
    Cosmic Cliffs, and Stephan's Quintet, just to name a few.
        The visual impact of JWST's images alone, with
    unprecedented clarity and detail, provides an inspirational
    value that I hope will draw a new generation of scientists and
    explorers into astronomy, astrophysics, and the sciences.
        Today's hearing will delve into what those stunning images
    tell us.
        What questions will those mesmerizing pictures answer and
    what new mysteries will they reveal?
        How will JWST's observations help us understand how our
    Universe came to be, the birth and evolution of stars, planets,
    and galaxies, and how the conditions arose for life to exist on
    this planet, in this Solar System, and in this galaxy?
        I'm eager to hear from our witnesses on what they are
    learning in just the first months of JWST's science operations,
    which officially began on July 12, 2022.
        While JWST's science is just beginning, the journey to get
    here has been decades in the making.
        Recommended as the top priority for major new investments
    in the National Academies of Science, Engineering, and
    Medicine's 2000 decadal survey for astronomy and astrophysics,
    JWST's design, development, integration, and testing on the
    ground spanned more than twenty years and required ten
    technology ``miracle'' innovations along the way.
        The challenges were many and success was not a guarantee.
    Even following its successful launch on an Ariane 5 rocket, the
    telescope's complex deployment sequence over 29 days involved
    344 potential single-point failures.
        I'm proud of the dedication and commitment of the many
    scientists, engineers, international partners, and contractors
    that have brought us here to celebrate the first science of
    JWST, the most powerful and complex telescope humans have ever
    sent into space.
        While the initial results and first imagery have been
    nothing short of stunning, I am confident that there is much
    more to come, and much we cannot even imagine.
        In closing, thank you again to our witnesses for being
    here-and in person-for what I predict will be a fascinating
    discussion.

        Chairman Beyer. And let me now recognize my friend, Dr.
    Babin, for an opening statement.
        Mr. Babin. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate
    this opportunity to be able to hear from you expert witnesses
    about this fantastic project.
        But good morning. I want to welcome you witnesses here
    before us today. And also I would like to mention the
    successful launch of Artemis 1 early this morning. Once again,
    our Nation has captured the world's attention by venturing back
    to the Moon with the pursuit of going even further where no one
    has ever gone before. Our successful launch of Artemis 1 is a
    remarkable feat made possible by so many brilliant minds across
    this great land of ours, including hardworking men and women at
    Johnson Space Center, which I am very privileged to represent.
    As a longtime supporter of the Artemis program, I want to
    congratulate everyone involved in this launch and wish them a
    successful mission.
        But now back to another fantastic achievement, the James
    Webb Space Telescope, also known as JWST, finally launched last
    Christmas morning with great fanfare. The flagship mission is
    the culmination of over 2 decades of very hard work and $10
    billion in taxpayer investment. The successful development,
    launch, and deployment of JWST is a testament to the engineers,
    the scientists, and the technicians who were so committed to
    this great project. NASA and its contractors once again
    demonstrated that the impossible is within reach.
        JWST also shows that the United States is still capable of
    building and operating large-scale, highly technical systems.
    This fact cannot be overstated. And while it's great to take a
    victory lap with a successful check out of JWST systems, we
    must also be vigilant in maintaining this capability in the
    future. We can't take for granted that we will be able to build
    cutting-edge systems in the future just because we were able to
    do so in the past. It will require ongoing congressional
    support and oversight to maintain key capabilities to build
    these world class systems. This is imperative not only for our
    scientific leadership, but also our national and economic
    security, as the dual-use nature of space impacts our citizens'
    lives every single day.
        Just as with the Hubble Space Telescope and NASA's other
    great observatories, we expect great things. JWST was touted as
    potentially rewriting the textbooks. And as breathtaking images
    and results have come in from JWST over the last 4 months,
    we're finally starting to see the fruits of our hard labor.
        Today's hearing is an opportunity to review these findings
    and to think about the future. With the spacecraft operating
    and providing data, what are the lessons learned from JWST that
    can be applied to future missions like the Nancy Grace Roman
    Space Telescope or future follow-on observatories? How can
    Congress help ensure that those lessons learned are implemented
    and followed through because the last thing we want to do is to
    make the same mistakes twice.
        Cost overruns and schedule delays have real-world impacts.
    They delay the start of other new and exciting missions and
    sometimes prevent them from even starting. The recent example
    of the Psyche mission comes to mind. Developed under the cost
    cap Discovery Program and NASA's Planetary Science Division,
    Psyche missed its planned launch date earlier this year and
    will not launch before next October. This will result in the
    program exceeding its cost cap and delaying the next Discovery-
    class mission Veritas by at least 3 years. It also raises the
    question of whether Discovery missions really have a cost cap
    or whether the caps are just recommendations.
        A recent Discovery mission InSight also exceeded its cost
    cap after issues with the partner-provided instrument resulted
    in a missed launch window to Mars. The moral hazard caused by
    specifying a cost cap but not holding missions accountable to
    that cap is directly applicable to how NASA will manage future
    astronomy missions after JWST.
        These are all issues that we need to remain focused on
    going forward. But today, I am very interested in hearing from
    our expert panel on some of the more interesting results that
    we have derived from JWST's first year. And I look forward to
    their testimony, and I yield back the balance of my time, Mr.
    Chairman. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Babin follows:]

        Good morning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to welcome to
    our witnesses for appearing before us today
        The James Webb Space Telescope--also known as JWST--finally
    launched last Christmas morning with great fanfare. The
    flagship mission is the culmination of over two decades of hard
    work and $10 billion in taxpayer investment. The successful
    development, launch, and deployment of JWST is a testament to
    the engineers, scientists, technicians that were so committed
    to the project. NASA and its contractors once again
    demonstrated that the impossible is within reach.
        JWST also shows that the U.S. is still capable of building
    and operating large-scale highly technical systems. This fact
    can't be overstated. While it is great to take a victory lap
    with the successful check-out of JWST's systems, we must also
    be vigilant in maintaining this capability in the future. We
    can't take for granted that we will be able to build cutting-
    edge systems in the future just because we were able to do so
    in the past. It will require ongoing Congressional support and
    oversight to maintain key capabilities to build these world-
    class systems. This is imperative not only for our scientific
    leadership, but also our national and economic security, as the
    dual-use nature of space impacts our citizens' lives every day.
        Just as with the Hubble Space Telescope and NASA's other
    ``great observatories'', we expect great things. JWST was
    touted as potentially rewriting textbooks. As breath- taking
    images and results have come in from JWST over the last four
    months, we are finally starting to see the fruits of our labor.
    Today's hearing is an opportunity to review these findings and
    think about the future.
        With the spacecraft operating and providing data, what are
    the lessons learned from JWST that can be applied to future
    missions like the Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope or future
    follow-on observatories? How can Congress help ensure that
    those lessons learned are implemented and followed through on?
    Because the last thing we want to do is make the same mistakes
    twice.Cost overruns and schedule delays have real-world
    impacts. They delay the start of other new, exciting, missions,
    and sometimes prevent them from even starting.
        The recent example of the Psyche mission comes to mind.
    Developed under the cost-capped Discovery program in NASA's
    Planetary Science division, Psyche missed its planned launch
    date earlier this year and will not launch before next October.
    This will result in the program exceeding its cost cap and
    delaying the next Discovery-class mission, VERITAS, by at least
    three years. It also raises the question of whether Discovery
    missions really have a cost cap, or whether the caps are just
    recommendations. A recent Discovery mission, InSight, also
    exceeded its cost cap after issues with the partner-provided
    instrument resulted in a missed launch window to Mars. The
    moral hazard caused by specifying a cost cap but not holding
    missions accountable to that cap is directly applicable to how
    NASA will manage future astronomy missions after JWST.
        These are all issues that we need to remain focused on
    going forward, but today I am interested in hearing from out
    expert panel on some of the more interesting results that we
    have derived from JWST's first year. I look forward to their
    testimony and yield back the balance of my time.

        Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Congressman, very much.
        Mr. Babin. Yes, sir.
        Chairman Beyer. At this time, I'd like to introduce the
    witnesses. Dr. Mark Clampin is the Astrophysics Division
    Director in the Science Mission Directorate (SMD) at NASA
    Headquarters in Washington. Previously, Dr. Clampin was the
    Director of the Sciences and Exploration Directorate at the
    Goddard Space Flight Center. At Goddard, he also previously
    served as the JWST Observatory Project Scientist and as
    Director of the Astrophysics Science Division. Dr. Clampin is a
    co-investigator with the Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite,
    TESS, and the Advanced Camera for Surveys science team. His
    research interests focus on the study and the formation and
    evolution of planetary systems. Dr. Clampin graduated from the
    University of London with a B.S. in physics and from the
    University of St. Andrews in Scotland with a Ph.D. in
    astronomy.
        Dr. Steven Finkelstein is an Associate Professor at the
    University of Texas at Austin. His research focuses on the
    formation and evolution of galaxies in the early universe and
    the interplay of these sources with reionization. He makes use
    of the largest ground and space-based observatories and is the
    Principal Investigator for JWST Early Release Science observing
    program, the Cosmic Evolution Early Release Science Survey
    (CEERS). Dr. Finkelstein received his B.S. degree from the
    University of Washington in astronomy and physics and his Ph.D.
    in physics from Arizona State University.
        And finally, Dr. Natalie Batalha is a Professor of
    Astronomy and Astrophysics and the Director of the Astrobiology
    at the University of California Santa Cruz. Dr. Batalha's
    research focuses on exoplanet science, including both detection
    and characterization. She's the Principal Investigator for the
    Transiting Exoplanet Community Early Release Science program
    with JWST to collect spectra of the atmospheres of a diverse
    set of exoplanets. Dr. Batalha was previously at NASA Ames, and
    served as the Project Scientist for the Kepler mission. She
    earned her bachelor's degree in physics and astronomy from the
    University of California, Berkeley, and her Ph.D. in astronomy
    from the University of California, Santa Cruz.
        As our witnesses should know, you will each have five
    minutes for your spoken testimony. Your written testimony will
    be included in the record for the hearing. And when you've all
    completed your spoken testimony, we will begin with questions.
    Each Member will have five minutes to question the panel.
        So we will begin with Dr. Mark Clampin.

                     TESTIMONY OF DR. MARK CLAMPIN,

                    ASTROPHYSICS DIVISION DIRECTOR,

                          NATIONAL AERONAUTICS

                    AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION (NASA)

        Dr. Clampin. Chairman Beyer, Ranking Member Babin, and
    Members of the Committee, good morning. My name is Mark
    Clampin, and I'm the Director of the Astrophysics Division and
    NASA Science Mission Directorate. This is a great day for NASA,
    as you've all mentioned. As one of the many people who worked
    on the James Webb Space Telescope, I'm thrilled to join you
    this morning to share the groundbreaking science NASA and our
    partners, the European Space Agency (ESA) and the Canadian
    Space Agency (CSA), are beginning to explore. NASA's JWS team--
    JWST team was excited to join with audiences across the Nation
    and indeed across the world for its launch and then in July for
    the first science image rollout events.
        JWST was designed to discover the first galaxies and stars
    that formed in the universe, providing a view of the most
    distant light that we can see. Its discoveries will unravel how
    galaxies form and evolve. It will allow us to peer into stellar
    nurseries and study the lifecycle of stars and the planetary
    systems that form around stars. And it will set us on the path
    to searching for evidence of habitable planets outside our
    solar system by providing a first look at the atmospheres of
    small rocky planets outside our solar system.
        JWST is already setting a rapid pace with new discoveries
    previously beyond our reach, and its very first full-color
    image, the galaxy cluster SMACS 723, NASA's scientists were
    amazed to see the deepest and sharpest infrared images of the
    universe ever taken. The combined mass of the foreground
    cluster of galaxies, which acts to gravitationally bend and
    magnify light from even more distant background galaxies,
    allows us to see somewhere when the universe was much less than
    a billion years old.
        So today, I'm pleased to reveal the once-hidden features of
    a protostar within the dark cloud L1527, which you will see on
    the monitor, as it's just been imaged by JWST. Protostars are
    very young stars that are forming inside their parent molecular
    clouds. And this first image of this protostar with JWST shows
    that while the protostar itself is hidden, the view within the
    neck of this hourglass shape you see a protoplanetary disk as a
    dark line across the middle of the neck, and to the top and the
    bottom you see light from the protostar illuminating the
    cavities within the surrounding outflows of gas and dust from
    this object.
        [Slide.][GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Dr. Clampin. JWST's unmatched sensitivity is also revealing
    new hints about the worlds outside our solar system. JWST
    confirmed the first clear evidence that carbon dioxide in the
    atmosphere of the gas giant planet called WASP-39b. This
    planet's discovery in 2011 was based on ground-based detections
    of the subtle periodic dimming of light from its host star as
    the planet transits in front of the star, essentially a mini-
    eclipse. And JWST has now studied WASP-39 and discovered this
    carbon dioxide feature. So we expect the JWST will play a key
    role in starting the search for potentially habitable planets
    outside our solar system during the decade.
        Mr. Chairman, I'm always asked what is next and how do we
    build on the national investment made in JWST and its success.
    So firstly, we will be making lots of new discoveries with the
    unprecedented capabilities at the James Webb Space Telescope.
    In the new--near future, NASA plans to launch the Roman Space
    Telescope, which will conduct widefield surveys to help us to
    understand the nature of dark energy, the mysterious force
    which is causing the universe to accelerate as it expands. And
    a key recommendation in the National Academies for Science
    Decadal Survey in Astrophysics, known as Astro2020, is the call
    for NASA to develop a new large space telescope able to survey
    an image, habitable worlds around sunlike stars, and then
    examine their atmospheres for evidence of life, what I will
    call a habitable worlds observatory.
        JWST, like Hubble before it, establishes U.S. leadership in
    space science, and a habitable worlds observatory will continue
    U.S. leadership in space science and scientific discovery by
    building on the breakthroughs in technology and science of the
    James Webb Space Telescope.
        It's truly an exciting time in astrophysics. Every day, one
    of my colleagues shares a new JW image or scientific result
    that is astonishing. Seeing JWST's first science images
    displayed in Times Square really show that JWST science has
    captured the American public's imagination.
        So I would like to just conclude by acknowledging the
    contribution to this program by NASA's Nobel Prize winner, Dr.
    John Mather, who was an inspirational leader for the life of
    this program for the James Webb Space Telescope.
        Mr. Chairman, I'd be happy to respond to any questions you
    or other Members of the Committee may have.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Clampin follows:]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Beyer. Dr. Clampin, thank you very much. Wonderful
    overview. We appreciate it.
        Dr. Finkelstein, the floor is yours.

                TESTIMONY OF DR. STEVEN L. FINKELSTEIN,

                        PROFESSOR OF ASTRONOMY,

                     UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN

        Dr. Finkelstein. Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and
    Members of the Subcommittee. My name is Steven Finkelstein. I'm
    a Professor of Astronomy at the University of Texas at Austin.
    I'm also the Principal Investigator of one of JWST's Early
    Release Science programs. It's my great pleasure to be here
    today to share with you the early discoveries from our program,
    which is called the Cosmic Evolution Early Release Science
    Survey, or CEERS.
        [Slide.]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Dr. Finkelstein. CEERS targets galaxies forming in the
    early universe using several of JWST's instruments. I would
    like to take a moment to explain how the study of the early
    universe is even possible. This is thanks to two helpful
    features of nature, the first of which is our cosmic speed
    limit, the speed of light. When we look at distant objects, the
    light we see has traveled large distances to reach our
    telescopes, so we see these objects as they were in the past.
    While this is inconsequential in the nearby universe, when we
    look at distant galaxies, this allows us to see them as they
    were billions of years ago.
        The second way the universe helps us is that it is
    expanding. All galaxies are moving away from one another, and
    as light from galaxies travels through expanding space, the
    light waves stretch out. This makes galaxies appear redder than
    they should be with the amount of reddening proportional to the
    distance. Astronomers assign this redshift a single number,
    which can be thought of as a time indicator. The most distant
    galaxies that the iconic Hubble Space Telescope can see are at
    a redshift number of about 10, where we are seeing them as they
    were over 13 billion years into the past. The universe is only
    13.8 billion years old, so this is quite a feat from Hubble.
        However, Hubble is not capable of reaching greater
    distances. At redshifts greater than 10, light from these more
    distant galaxies is stretched so far to the red that Hubble,
    which is optimized for visible light, cannot see them. This
    means that the earliest phases of the universe when the first
    galaxies form and evolve, have remained elusive. When did the
    first galaxies form out of the cosmic dark ages? What did they
    look like? Are there stars similar to those in our own Milky
    Way or fundamentally different in some way?
        Enter JWST. With its larger mirror and sensitivity to
    infrared light, JWST was designed to target this early cosmic
    era, and that is exactly what we are doing with CEERS. We were
    fortunate enough to receive a portion of our data in mid-July
    and I'm excited to share with you this beautiful image of the
    CEERS field. This image you see now shows a region of the sky
    about 8 times larger in area than Webb's first deep field
    containing over 40,000 galaxies. The images at the bottom show
    a gallery of galaxies highlighting the exquisite level of
    detail achievable with JWST.
        [Slide.]
     [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Dr. Finkelstein. As we analyze these data in late July, one
    galaxy jumped out at us in particular. We continued to improve
    the quality of our images, and we became convinced that we were
    seeing a galaxy with a redshift number of 12 more distant than
    anything humanity had seen before. Here in this image I present
    to you Maisie's galaxy.
        [Slide.]
     [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Dr. Finkelstein. Maisie's galaxy, which is named after my
    daughter as we both discovered it on her 9th birthday, and she
    had been asking me for months to name a galaxy after her, it's
    shown in the zoomed in panel, the small red dot. Here you are
    seeing light which has been traveling to us from a time only
    370 million years after the Big Bang, looking back over 97
    percent of the history of the universe.
        And a paper just submitted last week, we can now confirm
    that Maisie is not alone. Here I show you a compilation of 26
    extremely distant galaxies discovered in our CEERS data,
    including an amazing galaxy at the top left, which appears to
    be at a redshift number of 16, which means that it's coming to
    us from a time only 250 million years after the Big Bang.
        [Slide.]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Dr. Finkelstein. This high abundance of early galaxies is
    surprising and indicates that something is fundamentally
    different about stars in these galaxies. While our Sun is a
    pretty typical star in our own Milky Way Galaxy, it has been
    theorized that early galaxies, due to their very small amount
    of heavy atomic elements, would have much greater typical star
    masses. These massive stars would lead to galaxies being more
    blue intrinsically and more luminous, allowing more galaxies to
    be seen in our images. And you can see that many of these
    galaxies appear blue in this image, indicating that we may be
    entering an epoch when galaxies are dominated by completely
    different types of stars than today.
        Given the unexpected nature of these galaxies, confirmation
    of their extreme distances is a must. This can be accomplished
    with spectroscopy, which is a type of observation where we take
    the light from an object and split it apart with a dispersive
    element like a prism to split the light into its component
    wavelengths, revealing significantly more information. JWST is
    scheduled to take a spectrum of many of these sources in the
    CEERS field just next month. These data will provide the needed
    confirmation of these redshifts.
        I would like to leave you with one of my favorite images,
    the Stephan's Quintet early release observation. While this
    image features several nearby galaxies, if you look close
    enough, you can see plenty of galaxies in the background. JWST
    is so powerful that every field is a deep field.
        [Slide.]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Dr. Finkelstein. It is amazing to me that just 4 months ago
    we had no idea that our universe started forming stars and
    galaxies so early. We are living in a transformative time in
    astrophysics, and JWST is truly revolutionizing our view of the
    universe. I thank you for your time and would be pleased to
    answer any questions.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Finkelstein follows:]

       [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Dr. Finkelstein. So already
    they're finding galaxies older than your daughter. That's
    amazing. It's very cool, though. I hope you have other
    children.
        Dr. Batalha, the floor is yours.

                   TESTIMONY OF DR. NATALIE BATALHA,

                PROFESSOR OF ASTRONOMY AND ASTROPHYSICS

                     AND DIRECTOR OF ASTROBIOLOGY,

                  UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, SANTA CRUZ

        Dr. Batalha. Thank you. Good morning, Chairman Beyer,
    Ranking Member Babin, and Members of the Subcommittee. It is
    such a joy to be here to share the wonder of scientific
    discovery and the success of this new space telescope. Webb is
    performing at or even better than our expectations and has
    already achieved groundbreaking discoveries in our field. This
    is truly the beginning of a new era of exoplanet exploration,
    the hallmark of which will be the study of exoplanet
    atmospheres enabled by JWST.
        [Slide.]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Dr. Batalha. To date, over 5,000 planets have--orbiting
    other stars in the galaxy have been identified. Most were
    discovered using the transit method, which involves the precise
    monitoring of brightnesses of stars to search for the dimming
    of light that occurs if a planet eclipses or transits in front
    of its star. The bottom panel here shows how the brightness
    changes with time. This is the method employed by NASA space
    missions like Kepler and TESS. Those missions taught us that
    planets are common in the galaxy. On average, every sunlike
    star has at least one planet, and we estimate that more than 10
    billion are potentially habitable in our galaxy alone.
        [Slide.]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Dr. Batalha. But these missions also taught us that the
    diversity of planets in the galaxy far exceeds the diversity of
    planets in our solar system. We need to better understand the
    physical processes that give rise to that diversity and their
    impact on planetary habitability if we are to find evidence of
    living worlds in the future. And that's where JWST enters the
    scene.
        Like Kepler and TESS, JWST observes transits, but Kepler
    and TESS observe them in white light, colors scrambled
    together. JWST can measure the dimming of light in hundreds of
    infrared colors simultaneously. Why do we care? Well, when
    exoplanets eclipse their host star, some of the starlight
    passes through the atmosphere on its way to our telescope. And
    the atmosphere imprints a chemical fingerprint on the light
    because each atomic and molecular species absorbs a unique
    pattern of colors. The net effect is that the planet blocks
    more or less light in each color depending on which molecules
    are present.
        These in the next slide are measured transits from a planet
    named WASP-39b, observed as part of our Early Release Science
    program and shown here stacked vertically in 25 different
    infrared colors. The host star is similar to our sun. Its
    transiting exoplanet is a little bit larger than Jupiter but
    about the mass of Saturn, and it orbits its star 8 times closer
    than Mercury is to our Sun.
        [Slide.]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Dr. Batalha. Now, these transits may all look the same, but
    there are subtle differences that JWST can measure. We can
    calculate the amount of starlight blocked by the planet in each
    observed color. And we plot that versus wavelength, as shown by
    the white points in the next graphic. This is the graphical
    representation of a planetary spectrum, the amount of light
    blocked on the Y axis versus wavelength or color on the X axis.
    And it might not have the aesthetic appeal as Maisie's Galaxy
    or the Stephan's Quintet but I would argue that it is just as
    profound regarding the mysteries it reveals.
        [Slide.]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
        Dr. Batalha. And from this spectrum we see a panoply of
    atomic and molecular species that we could not see before. The
    tallest bump or hill in this spectrum is due to the absorption
    of carbon dioxide molecules. We also see evidence of sodium,
    potassium, water, carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide. The spectrum
    tells us so much more. It tells us there are patchy clouds. We
    learned that the atmosphere is enriched by heavy elements,
    suggesting that the planet was bombarded by planetesimals early
    in its life. And we even see evidence of photochemistry.
        [Slide.]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Dr. Batalha. The presence of sulfur dioxide cannot be
    explained without invoking starlight as a catalyst for the
    chemical reactions. High-energy photons from the star rain down
    on top of the atmosphere and break apart water molecules,
    triggering a cascade of chemical reactions leading to the
    production of sulfur dioxide. Photochemistry is fundamental for
    life on Earth to thrive. This is the first evidence of
    photochemistry of a molecule that requires photochemistry for
    its existence.
        Over 70 transiting exoplanets will be observed by JWST just
    in cycle 1, hundreds over its lifetime. We now have a new lens
    on exoplanet diversity. From these data, we will gain insights
    into planet formation and evolution processes, and we will lay
    the groundwork for identifying habitable environments and
    living worlds in the future.
        Thank you so much for your attention, and I'm happy to
    answer any questions that you might have.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Batalha follows:]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Dr. Batalha, and thank all of
    you for fascinating testimony.
        And Dr. Clampin, I believe one of the images you showed us
    was the first time the public has seen that.
        Dr. Batalha. Yes.
        Dr. Clampin. That's correct, yes. It was unveiled this
    morning.
        Chairman Beyer. Thank you for sharing that.
        Dr. Clampin. You got to see it first.
        Chairman Beyer. Great. By the way, if there are Members who
    wish to submit additional opening statements, your statements
    will be added to the record at this point.
         [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Johnson follows:]

        Good morning.
        Thank you, Chairman Beyer, for holding this hearing on such
    an exciting topic, and welcome to our distinguished witnesses.
        This Committee has held multiple hearings throughout the
    development of the James Webb Space Telescope, or JWST. But
    today we are finally here to discuss the science that is
    starting to flow from this amazing observatory.
        I want to express my deep appreciation to the thousands of
    scientists, engineers, and stakeholders who made JWST possible,
    including those at NASA, in industry, at our universities, and
    our international partners. Without their work, we would not be
    here today.
        From the release of the first JWST images this past summer,
    we've gotten breath-taking glimpses of some of the first
    galaxies in the universe, new and dying stars, and the rings of
    Neptune.
        JWST has even given us visual indications of the DART
    asteroid impact event.
        I look forward to hearing from our esteemed witnesses about
    JWST's science results so far on the formation of the first
    stars and galaxies and their evolution over time. I also look
    forward to hearing more about how JWST's instruments are being
    leveraged to characterize planets in our own Solar System as
    well as distant exoplanets.
        NASA's Great Observatories have not only expanded our
    frontiers into the universe, but they have also inspired
    students and people across the world.
        That's a topic about which I'm equally passionate because
    inspiration is a catalyst for innovation. Our future lies in
    the next generation of Americans, and I hope JWST will inspire
    them to continue our leadership and global collaboration in
    space science and exploration.
        I want to thank our witnesses again for taking the time to
    share what they have learned so far from JWST, and for pointing
    us to the exciting science that lies ahead.
        Finally, before I close, I would like to congratulate NASA
    and its contractor team on the successful launch of the Space
    Launch System early this morning. It is a stunning achievement,
    and I am looking forward to following the progress of the
    Artemis 1 mission to the moon over the coming days.
        Thank you, and I yield back.

        Chairman Beyer. Let me begin our first round of
    questioning. Dr. Batalha, you talked about the photochemistry
    being necessary for life on Earth, and so we've made the leap
    of faith that photochemistry is necessary for life in general.
    Can we really say that? Do--is it not possible to imagine non-
    water-based life on other planets?
        Dr. Batalha. We only have one example of life, so we're
    going on what we know. But the rise of complexity in the
    universe takes a certain form. I mean, the very elements that
    are required for life are the very elements that the universe
    creates in most abundance. It's also the case that life
    harnesses energy to do work, to maintain itself, to evolve to
    grow, and so it needs an energy source. So the way that the
    host star interacts with the planet is a synergy. It's a
    symbiosis that is probably very common to the rise of
    complexity and to the rise of life.
        Could it be--is it certain that that's the only pathway for
    creating life? No. But it is true that whatever pathway that
    is, it's going to require energy. It's going to harness energy
    to do work to maintain itself. That's a fundamental law of
    physics that we can't escape.
        Chairman Beyer. Great. Great. Thank you very much. That's
    the best explanation yet that I've heard.
        Dr. Finkelstein, those stars you showed us that are so old,
    bright, don't have the dense materials, is it safe to assume
    they're long since dead?
        Dr. Finkelstein. Yes, absolutely. That's correct. The most
    massive stars burn through their fuel so quickly, they live
    only a few million years at most. So we sort of caught them at
    a glimpse in time when they were shining very brightly.
        Chairman Beyer. On the whole issue of inflation--matter,
    antimatter coming into being--this rapid expansion, are we
    understanding that? And are there any insights on inflation
    that have come from JWST so far?
        Dr. Finkelstein. Not yet at this point. Inflation is
    happening at a very, very, very early epoch, the--essentially,
    the instant right after the Big Bang. One of the things we can
    learn from studying the galaxies that come a while later, a few
    100 million years later, is whether the abundance of galaxies,
    the masses of galaxies are consistent with our idea of what we
    call a cold dark matter cosmology. So is there anything that we
    have seen yet to break that idea? And so far, it seems like you
    can explain what we see with ideas that we've had in the past.
    You don't need to actually fundamentally change cosmology, but
    again, we've only had a few months with these data, and a small
    amount of of data has come in, so I would say stay tuned.
        Chairman Beyer. Very cool. Thank you.
        Dr. Clampin, what is reionization, and why is that
    important? Microphone, Dr. Clampin.
        Dr. Clampin. Sorry. So reionization is when the first stars
    started to form in the universe and essentially ionize the
    intergalactic medium or, you know, the medium that was present
    at that time. So it's a very important stage because it's the
    epoch when the first stars and galaxies started to form and
    change the nature of the universe.
        Chairman Beyer. Cool. Very cool. Dr. Finkelstein, you
    mentioned dark matter. I know it's been in a lot of the popular
    science recently that maybe that dark matter has been hiding
    inside the many more black holes that are out there than we
    thought. Is there anything that we're seeing in JWST that would
    give credence to that thought?
        Dr. Finkelstein. Not so far, but one of the most exciting
    things to come with the spectroscopy that we'll be obtaining in
    the next months to several years is it will give us our first
    chance to look at the formation of the earliest black holes in
    the universe. We know that, today, all galaxies have
    supermassive black holes at their center, but it's really
    challenging to grow black holes that large. And so we should,
    we think, see evidence of them growing in these very early
    galaxies. And that's hard to see in the images alone, but you
    can see it with the spectroscopy.
        Chairman Beyer. Dr. Batalha, you're an astrobiology expert.
    I've heard tell that if you ask a roomful of scientists how
    many believe that there is other life in the universe, every
    hand would go up. Is this something that you have to--is that
    the leap of faith you make before you commit yourself to
    astrobiology?
        Dr. Batalha. I think that's true. I myself believe that
    life has to be out there because, I mean, complexity arises in
    the universe. It should arise everywhere. I think the
    fundamental question is how frequent is life and is intelligent
    life common? That's a very different question. If I had to
    posit a guess, which scientists don't like to do because we'd
    like to have evidence, but if I had to posit a guess, I would
    guess that living worlds are common. And by that I mean
    microbial life. Whether or not it evolves into intelligent life
    is another question. And I'm not so sure if intelligent life is
    going to be common or rare, but we know how to find out.
        Chairman Beyer. Great, great. Thank you very much. I
    appreciate all of it.
        And let me introduce the Ranking Member of the Committee,
    Dr. Babin.
        Mr. Babin. Thank you. Very, very, very fascinating
    information.
        Dr. Clampin, JWST was apparently hit by some
    micrometeorites after deployment. I also noticed this morning
    that NASA announced a new strategy to minimize future damage to
    the spacecraft. What impact did those strikes have? Can it be
    quantified at this point? What--were the impacts greater than
    planned? Is JWST more susceptible than expected? And is there
    anything that can be done from an operational standpoint that
    can mitigate the risk of these micrometeorite impacts? And
    would those modified operations impact the planned science? I
    know--and I can repeat this. But if you could answer some of
    those, I'm very curious to hear--to see what what you all had
    planned before and what you have planned in the future.
        Dr. Clampin. So to date, we've seen I think 14
    micrometeorite impacts, and the majority of them are what we
    call very low energy. We've seen one which has significantly
    higher energy, and I'll come back to that in a minute. But when
    we design the telescope, we designed all the science
    requirements to what we call the end of life, assuming that in
    that environment there would be micrometeorite strikes. And we
    have a very detailed model that's provided by the Marshall
    Space Flight Center for the environment at second Lagrangian
    Point where the telescope's operating. So we knew that we were
    going to see micrometeorite strikes and built that expectation
    into the performance for the end of life so that we will get to
    the end of 5 years, which is the nominal lifetime, with an
    operational telescope that was still producing the science
    requirements.
        As I said, you know, we've seen 14. One of them was a
    little bit of a surprise in that it seemed to happen--it was
    higher energy than expected based on the model, and we think
    that that may have actually hit a piece of the mirror, which
    produced a more significant effect than the rest of them. That
    said, because the telescope is comprised of 18 individual
    segments with each of them having 6 degrees of freedom and an
    additional degree that allows us to change focus, we've been
    able to compensate for the impact that that particular
    micrometeorite had. And so--but we are still returning image
    quality that's much better than we originally expected from the
    requirements.
        In order to make sure that we are playing it as safe as
    possible, we are looking at operational changes for the second
    cycle science where we avoid pointing the telescope in the
    direction where micrometeorites would have a sort of direct,
    normal impact on the mirror. And this is really just going to
    affect when in the year people's science gets done. So you can
    look at objects, you know, twice a year, and it just depends on
    how you schedule the science. So we're not expecting any major
    scientific impacts. And for very special targets that we may
    need to point into the RAM, we will, you know, make--you know,
    provide a waiver to do that.
        So I think the answer to your question is we expected this,
    and we're being very conservative and making some operational
    changes to make sure that we minimize any future impacts.
        Mr. Babin. OK, thank you very much. And a question for all.
    JWST is arguably the most powerful and advanced space telescope
    in operation. China, however, is planning to launch a space
    telescope next year that will co-orbit with their space station
    in low-Earth orbit. How does this telescope compare to Hubble,
    JWST, Roman, or other great observatories? And what are the
    advantages and disadvantages of a co-orbiting observatory in
    low-Earth orbit?
        Dr. Clampin. I can take that one. So I don't know a lot
    about that particular telescope, but I can say a couple of
    things. First of all, you always worry about the contamination
    environment around a space station, which can, you know, result
    in residue or volatiles getting onto the primary mirror, that
    it potentially impacts your ability to do science in the far
    ultraviolet. That said, otherwise I think, you know,
    potentially the performance is likely to be similar to that of
    Hubble in the visible, you know, imaging bands----
        Mr. Babin. OK.
        Dr. Clampin [continuing]. Given that it's in low-Earth
    orbit,
        Mr. Babin. Dr. Finkelstein or Dr. Batalha?
        Dr. Batalha. Congressman Babin, I don't really know a lot
    about the platform, so I can't do--I can't offer in detail----
        Mr. Babin. OK.
        Dr. Batalha [continuing]. Detailed comments about the
    comparison. Sorry.
        Mr. Babin. Thank you.
        Dr. Finkelstein. Same for me.
        Mr. Babin. OK. Thank you, and I'll just yield back. My
    time's up.
        Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Dr. Babin.
        And we now recognize the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr.
    Norcross.
        Mr. Norcross. Thank you, Chairman. And I'd like to thank
    the witnesses for being here and keeping my curiosity of the
    world alive. It's why I enjoy so much this Subcommittee.
        So not to be a buzzkill on this, but the issue comes to the
    mechanics. We're seeing where and--the potential of where we're
    going. Are all the systems, Dr. Clampin, up and operating as
    expected today?
        Dr. Clampin. Yes, JW is operating exactly as we expected it
    to operate. And as we have said, it's exceeding many of the
    requirements--science requirements that we built it to.
        Mr. Norcross. Are there items that are on schedule to be
    looked at further or newer in the operational life of this that
    you want to get done now, that because of what might happen
    will not be as effective in five years?
        Dr. Clampin. No, I think we're going to take the approach
    of--as we have done with Hubble in the past, having a
    competition every year called the proposal cycle. And a peer
    review panel will select the very best ideas, and we will
    basically do those programs with the telescope, making sure
    that we get the best possible ideas each year done and those
    science programs completed.
        Mr. Norcross. OK. So being first, other than to answer
    those questions, is not a mechanical issue of something that
    will be done? Great.
        Dr. Clampin. No.
        Mr. Norcross. So what are the potential issues or, as I
    say, what keeps you up at night on this telescope?
        Dr. Clampin. So we built this telescope and tested it
    extensively on the ground. And most--I'll be honest, most of
    the issues that kept me up at night were the initial
    deployments and the whole process of commissioning the
    telescope and getting it to the point it is today. Right now,
    I'm very comfortable with the way the telescope's operating,
    and I think, as you've seen from the science results that have
    been presented, that we're really very happy with the way it's
    operating.
        You also may be aware that the initial launch was extremely
    precise and put us into an orbit that allowed us to minimize
    the expenditure of propellant, so we are anticipating something
    like a 20-year lifetime based on what we call the consumables,
    which is the propellant that are needed to, first of all, keep
    it in its orbit at L-2, and second, just to do what we call
    desaturate the momentum wheels every few days. So right now,
    we're very comfortable with the way the telescope's operating.
        Mr. Norcross. Would you be comfortable saying that you had
    exceeded all the the expected outcomes that this telescope is
    going to do?
        Dr. Clampin. I would certainly be comfortable. And I'll
    give you one example. I mean, our image quality, which is
    defined in terms of what's called a wavefront error, was--when
    we've got the commissioning done, we were basically at half the
    wavefront error that we expected to be at. And what that means
    is sharper images, better sensitivity. And you combine that
    with the pointing, which came in at 1 milliard second versus
    the requirement of 7, and you have a telescope that's more
    sensitive with sharper images than we had anticipated.
        Mr. Norcross. One of the core obligations we have is
    oversight. And we quite often hear in government how things
    don't work. I just want to say thank you for exceeding our
    expectations, and let's continue on. With that, I yield back.
        Chairman Beyer. OK. Thank you, Mr. Norcross, very much.
        I'd now like to introduce the Congressman who last night
    had the most important congressional district in the country,
    Mr. Posey.
        Mr. Posey. Thank you, Chairman Beyer, for holding yet
    another exciting Committee meeting, and thank you to the
    panelists for your fascinating testimony. This has got to be
    the most enjoyable Committee in Congress.
        Dr. Clampin, I represent, as Chairman said, the Space Coast
    Kennedy Space Center. So James Webb was launched last year from
    Kourou in French Guiana aboard an Ariane 5 launch vehicle and
    fantastic launch. I applaud the accomplishment. But just--I'm
    wondering going forward, are we going to launch any future
    observations on foreign soil or are we going to use U.S. soil?
        Dr. Clampin. So let me start by just congratulating you on
    a great launch from the Kennedy Space Center last night, and
    it's really thrilling to see Artemis finally get off the ground
    and roaring into life. In answer to your question, we live in a
    very different world now where there are lots of different U.S.
    commercial launch opportunities, including a number which
    provide us with new capabilities that we're definitely thinking
    of as we look at the Astro2020 decadal survey. But just to give
    you a couple of examples, the Roman Space Telescope will launch
    on a Falcon Heavy and many of our SMD missions are now
    launching on U.S. launches. So my expectation is we will take
    advantage of the new U.S. launch capabilities that have been
    provided to us.
        Mr. Posey. Thank you very much. Dr. Batalha, I hope I
    didn't mess it up too badly. Can you walk us through the
    process of gaining observation time for James Webb, you know,
    how its organized? Is it any different than other
    observatories, or do you have any thoughts on how it's working
    so far?
        Dr. Batalha. Yes, absolutely. It follows the same model
    that was used by the Hubble Space Telescope and actually many
    ground-based observatories as well. It's highly competitive, as
    you can imagine. The scientific community writes proposals,
    submits them. There are experts who agree to serve on a
    committee to review those proposals. It's a blind review, so
    you don't see the person who's leading that team. You don't see
    their name, and that's meant to mitigate biases that the review
    committee might have.
        I've served on both the Telescope Allocation Committee and
    on the Executive Committee of that process, and I can say that
    it's very thoughtful with regards to technical feasibility and
    the impact of the science and balancing the portfolio of the
    telescope.
        Mr. Posey. All of you comment on this if you would, how the
    James Webb will contribute to our understanding of the
    supermassive black holes compared to what we learned from
    Hubble.
        Dr. Finkelstein. Absolutely, so as I mentioned, you know,
    we have reason to believe that these black holes are forming
    and growing in the early universe. And black holes can be
    tricky to see. They don't emit light themselves, so you have to
    find black holes that are either interacting gravitationally so
    you can see motions, which is also very difficult, or that are
    actively accreting gas. And as that gas spirals into the black
    hole and the black hole gobbles it up and grows in mass, it
    gets quite hot, and that light can escape. And that process is
    very energetic, and so there are unique signatures that you
    could see in a spectrum. And so this is, I think, one of the
    most exciting things I'm looking forward to in the next month
    is some of those are going to be very obvious signatures, and
    we'll know right away, yes or no, there are black holes growing
    in these galaxies.
        If we don't see those signatures, that might be even more
    exciting because you still have to make these big black holes
    by today. And if our best idea is that they kind of slowly grow
    throughout the universe is sort of disproven, then there are
    more exotic scenarios such as maybe the early universe makes
    modest-sized black holes in what we would call a direct
    collapse black hole scenario. You can make a black hole out of
    a pocket of gas that's a million times the mass of the sun, so
    you're already kind of making baby supermassive black holes
    early on. And maybe--if that's the case, maybe there are ideas
    about how we might be able to see those in some of the deepest
    imaging that's upcoming with JWST. And so no answers yet, but I
    think in the very near future we'll have either either good
    answers or good additional questions.
        Mr. Posey. You mentioned the universe being 13.9 billion
    years old. What was before that?
        Dr. Finkelstein. My favorite answer to that is your guess
    is as good as mine. A more technical answer which I don't like
    is that the concept of time only exists as long as the universe
    exists, so there was no before. We can measure very precisely
    the evolution of the universe as long as the universe has been
    around. We can measure very precisely the age of 13.82 billion
    years. Why the universe began, what came before if there is
    even a concept as before, that we don't know. And it's very
    hard to test because to do science, we need to make
    observations to test our theories, and we only have the
    universe that we live in right now.
        Mr. Posey. And beyond the universe?
        Dr. Finkelstein. The universe is infinite as best we can
    tell, and so there is no beyond the universe.
        Mr. Posey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Mr. Posey, very much.
        Now let me recognize Congress' greatest champion for travel
    to Mars, the gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Perlmutter.
        Mr. Perlmutter. Thanks, Mr. Chair. And I want to thank the
    panel and all your colleagues for your persistence and your
    perseverance with this project because it had a few ups and
    downs over the course of its life. And I want to thank this
    Committee for its patience because the scientific product--
    products that have come from this, are just remarkable.
        So, Dr. Batalha, I want to start with you. How do you
    choose what exoplanets you're going to study? I mean, there's--
    you've said there's a whole bunch of them, but you picked 70.
    And then I'm going to talk to you, Dr. Finkelstein. How do you
    choose what galaxies you want to look at?
        Dr. Batalha. Great question. There are over 5,000
    exoplanets that we know of, but not all of them are bright
    enough for us to study their atmospheres, even with Webb. So
    there is a NASA mission called TESS, which is doing an all-sky
    survey to find transiting exoplanets that are near the solar
    system. Those are the ones for which we can get really good
    precision, part-per-million precision, to see these bumps and
    wiggles in the spectrum that are telling us about the presence
    of molecules. So the list gets whittled down. There are still
    hundreds even after that, many hundreds. And so you look at the
    kind of science questions that you want to answer.
        There is an exoplanet or a star called TRAPPIST-1 that is
    very close to us that harbors seven exoplanets orbiting it,
    three of which are in the habitable zone, orbit in the
    habitable zone. So you can imagine that we are spending a good
    deal of time observing those planets. That's going to be a high
    priority target.
        Mr. Perlmutter. So how do you and your colleagues choose
    who's going to study what planet? How do you share
    information----
        Dr. Batalha. Yes.
        Mr. Perlmutter [continuing]. Among all of this? I mean,
    how--is it open? Is it closed? Is it, you know, I got planet X,
    you got planet Y, we don't talk to each other?
        Dr. Batalha. Yes, it's a little of both. For the Early
    Release Science program back in 2016 I started an open
    committee. It was open to everybody who wanted to participate.
    We have over 300 scientists who participated in that process in
    order to create a truly grassroots strategic plan for what the
    very first exoplanets we would observe should be. So that was
    an open process. The data is nonproprietary. Anybody who wants
    to participate can. It's truly open science. And that's been a
    very valuable exercise for how we do science.
        Mr. Perlmutter. Great. Dr. Finkelstein?
        Dr. Finkelstein. Yes, thank you. So first, I also want to
    acknowledge the large number of people that made this possible,
    including the CEERS team, not quite 300. We have about 200
    scientists in our team and of course the engineers that made
    this telescope possible and the people doing the work, which is
    usually the junior scientists, the graduate students and
    postdocs.
        So how did we decide what galaxies to see? Well, we didn't
    know these galaxies. We're discovering them. So we're doing
    what we call blank field astronomy, which was a wild idea first
    tested out in the mid-1990's with the Hubble Deep Field. The
    Hubble Deep Field was kind of a bold idea to point at what we
    thought was an empty place in the sky, spend a couple hundred
    hours observing, and see what you find. And I think many people
    thought you would find nothing, and it turns out you see the
    universe is filled with galaxies. And that's become a very
    useful strategy. Now we know that there are galaxies pretty
    much no matter where you look.
        So then the next question is, why did we look at this
    particular place in the sky known as the extended growth strip,
    and the reason why is that Hubble had looked at it before. And
    the Hubble data is very, very useful for the JWST data. Hubble
    has the visible wavelength data that is crucial to combine with
    our infrared data.
        And finally, one key part of our Early Release Science
    program in particular is we're using multiple instruments with
    JWST, and we want them all to overlap the same place on the
    sky. And it turns out with a sort of fate of geometry, this
    extended growth strip field is kind of a strip in the sky, and
    JWST can look at that strip at just the right angle to allow
    the instruments to overlap. So it's a nice combination of
    things that allow us to point here.
        Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. And, Dr. Clampin, last question.
    As you built the telescope--and, you know, there were a few
    hiccups along the way--what would you do differently today if
    you were going to build another telescope like this?
        Dr. Clampin. So I can spend hours talking about this, but I
    helped chair a NASA study called the Large Mission Study, and I
    was the person who put together the plans for how we would
    formulate the next mission differently. So the first and most
    important one, I think, is you need to focus on schedule from
    the beginning. You also need to get the technologies to--fully
    matured before you start actually designing the mission. And I
    don't just mean, you know, six or seven individual miracles.
    You have to remember that those miracles have to work together.
    So the biggest challenge on these very large missions is the
    system, not the individual technologies. So think about that,
    and make sure you don't overdo the science requirements and you
    keep focus on the key science that you want to do, and I think
    that's the path to success.
        Mr. Perlmutter. All right. Thank you. I yield back to the
    Chair. Thank you.
        Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Mr. Perlmutter, very much.
        I will recognize the gentlelady from California, Ms. Kim.
        Ms. Kim. Thank you, Chairman. And I want to thank all of
    our witnesses for joining us today.
        Gosh, I also want to echo my colleagues in congratulating
    NASA for the launch of Artemis 1 and how exciting it was. I was
    there the first time when we thought we were launching it.
    Fourth time is a great charm.
        This launch truly marks the new era of space exploration
    for the United States and its international partners, and I'm
    looking forward to the future Artemis and NASA eventually
    landing astronauts on the Moon.
        The James Webb Space Telescope was years in the making, as
    we all know, and it's really exciting to see, you know, how,
    despite all the, you know, challenges that we faced in the
    development, we saw last Christmas a wonderful gift that, you
    know, as we watched the James Webb Space Telescope finally
    launching ESA's Ariane 5 rocket. And early this year, the world
    watched as NASA released James Webb's first fully developed
    image of Cosmic Cliffs in the Carina Nebula, so exciting.
        So I want to congratulate NASA, ESA, and CSA, and their
    many partners for the success of your mission. And while there
    are many lessons still to be learned from telescopes
    development, I'm pleased that we're taking this opportunity to
    examine and celebrate the scientific achievements of the James
    Webb Space Telescope and to hear more about the telescope's
    future observations.
        And I want to start with Dr. Clampin. I want you to know
    that much of my key focus on this Committee is STEM (science,
    technology, engineering, and mathematics) engagement. So can
    you speak to the STEM engagement opportunities that this JWST
    has provided NASA with, and can you specifically talk about
    NASA's K through 12 engagement?
        Dr. Clampin. So we have had a very active and vigorous STEM
    program from the very beginning of JWST. And you can see from
    the engagement of the public, you know, there's this, you know,
    iconic image of somebody standing in Times Square taking a
    picture of a JWST image as it comes up on the display. So we
    are heavily invested in every stage of STEM education. And the
    great thing about astronomy and astrophysics is it's a very
    accessible science for all ages, and so it's really good for
    bringing in young people into STEM careers and getting them
    engaged. We also at NASA have a very vigorous, you know,
    education support program, and I'd be happy to get you more
    information on that.
        Ms. Kim. Great. You know, why much of the mission of JWST
    is to examine what is beyond our solar system, we were amazed
    by the clearest image of Jupiter that we've ever taken. So can
    you describe JWST's observation of Jupiter, what it has taught
    us and--about our own solar system? Yes.
        Dr. Clampin. So the--for me, the observation of Jupiter was
    amazing because we spent a large amount of time trying to
    figure out how we would observe something as bright as Jupiter
    without completely saturating the--all the sensors. In fact--
    point of fact, it turned out that our calculations had really
    been, you know, spot on and we were able to take images of
    Jupiter.
        So it's--most of the science that JWST will do in this
    field is more in the form of long-term monitoring, you know,
    understanding what's going on in the atmosphere of Jupiter and
    tracking it over time. So the first image is just the first
    step in a long program of tracking what's going on with the
    atmosphere of Jupiter.
        The other part that's also very interesting, and there are
    a number of programs approaching this, to study the moons of
    Jupiter and also the other gas giant Saturn. And it's the
    infrared opportunities and the ability to do infrared
    spectroscopy of their atmospheres that, you know, present
    really interesting opportunities. And those observations are
    still to come.
        Ms. Kim. Valuable, valuable lessons and observations. Thank
    you so much. It looks like I'm running out of time, so I'll
    yield back.
        Chairman Beyer. Great.
        Ms. Kim. Thank you.
        Chairman Beyer. Thank you very much. Let me recognize the
    gentleman from Florida, Mr. Webster, for his questions.
        Mr. Webster. Yes, I got here a little late, but--and maybe
    it's been asked, but how do you determine within vast amount of
    space and what--how do you determine the initial direction that
    you're going to point the telescope and take a picture, and how
    deep do you go? How do you determine that? Anybody?
        Dr. Finkelstein. Yes, so for distant galaxies, it sort of
    really doesn't matter where we point. There's a variety of
    factors. You want a place that has the longest observability
    window. As Dr. Clampin said, you can't look everywhere at all
    times. Sometimes the Sun is in the way, things like that. And
    you want places that are sort of pointing out of the plane of
    the solar system and out of the plane of the galaxy because you
    don't want a lot of dust that's in our solar system in the way
    called zodiacal light. And you don't want light from stars. We
    don't, for our galaxy surveys.
        And then for how long you observe, that's always critical.
    When we write these proposals that Dr. Batalha was talking
    about, it's crucial to have a very good estimate of how much
    time. You can't just sort of say, oh, we think we need 10 or 20
    hours. You need to say we know. And so NASA has developed tools
    to estimate the sensitivity before launch of the telescope, and
    we have some idea of the faintness of the galaxies we want to
    see. And this calculation tells us here's how long you think--
    we think you should observe. And then we take it one step
    further now. NASA has also helped develop excellent data
    simulation tools. And so you can say, OK, let's say this
    exposure time tool said you need 2 hours. Let's actually
    simulate the data. Do we actually see the galaxies in those 2
    hours? And we did that process for our Early Release Science
    proposal to show that, yes, we can actually do it. And then--so
    it turns out that the telescope was working even better than
    expected so we can see a little bit fainter than we thought we
    were going to.
        Mr. Webster. So do you--so you have a--is it mapped out
    already in where you're headed and what you're doing and where
    you're staying and how long you're going to look and all of
    that? Is that something that's mapped out ahead of time?
        Dr. Finkelstein. So it's a year-by-year process, and so the
    telescope is currently executing at cycle 1 observations, and
    proposals for the next year called cycle 2 are going to be due
    at the end of January, and so sort of a year-by-year process.
        Mr. Webster. Well, that's very, very interesting. So once
    you--but how far ahead are you? I mean, what are you--are you
    just a year ahead in that you've done one year, you've done
    another year, and you won't do it the next year until you
    finish this second year?
        Dr. Finkelstein. Yes, we're sort of close to the midway
    point of that first year of observations, not quite there, and
    so there is some amount of multiyear planning. Eventually, the
    Hubble Space Telescope got to a mode where they did accept
    multiyear proposals, and JWST may eventually get to that point.
    But right now, there is so much exciting science to do, we want
    to try and get as many, you know, observations in covering as
    many targets as possible, and then we can start to think here
    are some maybe longer-term ideas that you might want to do.
        Mr. Webster. So if you find something that's interesting,
    do you still just move on or do you stay?
        Dr. Finkelstein. Usually, you have to propose for the next
    year. There--I will say--I mentioned we're getting spectroscopy
    next month. Part of that is a particular type of observation
    called a director's discretionary time proposal, where if you
    find something exciting, you can kind of appeal to the director
    of the Space Telescope Science Institute, and they have an
    amount of time they can give out for--I like to call it
    emergency time, really exciting observations. Often, it's
    exploding objects like supernovae that are fading. You really
    need to get to them. In this case, it's a really exciting
    distant galaxy. We'd like to know if it truly is the distance
    we think it is.
        Mr. Webster. I have other questions, but I don't know what
    they are. Thank you so much.
        Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Mr. Webster. We will do a second
    round if it occurs to you after Ms. Bonamici.
        Ms. Bonamici, you're recognized.
        Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Chair Beyer, Ranking Member Babin,
    and thank you to our witnesses for your expertise and your
    testimony.
        I'll join my colleagues in congratulating NASA on the
    successful Artemis launch.
        This has been a very exciting and certainly thought-
    provoking hearing this morning. We know that space exploration
    has played such a pivotal role in uniting our country and our
    world but also in broadening our understanding of our place in
    the universe, inspiring future generations of scientists. And I
    think back to July when the first images came out. And I know
    you've mentioned a couple of times the Times Square display and
    really how stellar those--I guess, pun intended--photographs
    were and continue to be.
        And I want to, of course, acknowledge not only the Federal
    investment but the more than I think 300 universities and all
    the participation and partnerships that made this happen.
    We've--I've discovered certainly over the years on this
    Committee that we've had many discussions about how do we
    increase the appreciation among our constituents and people in
    the country and around the globe of the work, of the science.
    How do we get--pique interest in further studies? And how do we
    make sure that our communication with with the public gets
    across the importance of what's happening?
        And so I know Representative Kim asked about education. I
    wanted to first ask our professors Dr. Finkelstein and Dr.
    Batalha. You're both professors. What have been your
    experiences since the successful photographs started coming out
    in July? How has this changed among your students, among
    prospective students? Has it changed their views? And what
    programs should we engage in to make sure that--invest in to
    make sure we're engaging students to further their careers in
    science?
        Dr. Batalha. Great question. The data, the images, the
    scientific discovery is so inherently alluring. It's very easy
    to talk about it with our youngsters. I've spoken to elementary
    school students, to Girl Scouts and high school students and
    people in community colleges and the public. And everybody is
    just, you know, eyes like saucers.
        I think that science, you know, you need to communicate the
    wonder of it and how it maps to meaning, what it means to be a
    human. For me, I got a late start in science because I couldn't
    map the science to scientific discovery. It's hard to
    understand that feeling of scientific discovery and how
    absolutely joyful it is. Carl Sagan called it a kind of ecstasy
    when you have that deep understanding.
        So taking these images out into the public, you know, I
    showed the deep field and I told the public when I look at that
    image, I marvel at how much life might--must be captured in all
    those galaxies, you know, thousands of galaxies and billions of
    billions of stars.
        So I think that's what we need to do. Of course, you also
    need the rigor of the classes, the coursework to go along with
    it----
        Ms. Bonamici. Sure.
        Dr. Batalha [continuing]. And mathematics showing the joy
    and fun of mathematics and science curriculum is also extremely
    important.
        Ms. Bonamici. I'm going to ask Dr. Finkelstein to go into a
    related direction. If we want to maximize--and I'll ask this to
    Dr. Clampin as well. If we want to maximize the scientific
    return from James Webb, what types of skill sets and
    educational background do we need? And right now, do we have
    the--is the research community well-positioned for working with
    all the data that's coming in?
        Dr. Finkelstein. Yes, that's a great question. So I think
    space sells itself. It's really easy to get anyone interested
    in it because it's so amazing. For me, it's really about trying
    to chase our origins, the ultimate origins of where the Milky
    Way galaxy came from.
        We need students in the STEM sector, and space really
    inspires students to go that route. Some of those students
    choose to go into astrophysics, and that's fantastic. And then
    we get to work with them at universities. And something that
    has become more and more common over the last decade or so is
    more undergraduates participating in research. And so we have a
    number of undergraduates that are working with us on these
    data, and I know that's true around the country and around the
    world. And that gets them the real experience of what it's like
    to be an astronomer and to make discoveries and have those aha
    moments and really say, oh, this is something that I could
    actually do for a living.
        Ms. Bonamici. That's great. And I--it looks like I'm just
    about out of time, but, Dr. Clampin, if you have just a
    sentence, it'd be helpful.
        Dr. Clampin. I would just say one of the things I find
    really inspirational is a lot of my students that--when I was
    at the Goddard Space Flight Center were inspired to join NASA
    because of what we did with Hubble. And we will do the same
    with James Webb.
        Ms. Bonamici. Terrific. Thank you. And as I yield back, Mr.
    Chairman, because I can't stay for a second round, I just want
    to mention the importance of diversifying the work force and
    making sure that the opportunity to work in this field is
    available, especially to those historically left behind. And I
    yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Ms. Bonamici, very much.
        I now ask unanimous consent on the Committee to wave on Ms.
    Stansbury for--without objection. Let me now recognize online
    Ms. Stansbury for her questions.
        Ms. Stansbury. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank
    you to the Committee for letting me participate today. As folks
    have noted already on this hearing this morning, we're not only
    celebrating the findings of the Webb Telescope, but also the
    successful launch of Artemis 1. And as a woman in STEM, I want
    to just note that it's being led by an amazing group of women,
    including Charlie Blackwell-Thompson, who is the first woman
    ever in American history to oversee a NASA countdown and
    launch. And so this is long overdue in history-making, along
    with all of the scientific discoveries that we're talking about
    this morning. And I do want to add to the chorus of everyone
    who's been working on the Webb Telescope and the science that's
    coming out of it.
        After three decades of bipartisan work, dedicated
    collaboration by our extraordinary scientists and engineers at
    NASA, our space industries, and of course scientists across the
    world, this amazing telescope launched last December. And I
    want to say on a personal note, I was among the millions of
    people who stayed up late through the night and into the
    morning on Christmas morning to watch the launch of this
    telescope and had the extraordinary opportunity when I was
    working on space policy at OMB (Office of Management and
    Budget) as a staffer to actually see the assembly of the
    telescope at Goddard. And so it's really been an exciting
    journey to see the telescope launch and everything that's
    coming out of it.
        In my home State of New Mexico, which is a powerhouse in
    science, technology, and aerospace, we could not be more
    excited about the Webb Telescope and what it's teaching us
    about the origins of the universe and our place in it, but also
    helping to inspire the next generation of scientists and
    researchers who are not only engaged in this work, but also the
    students who we've been talking about this morning who are
    inspired by what we're finding from this project.
        In particular, Professor Tony Hull, who's a Professor at
    the University of New Mexico, was part of the team that helped
    to polish the telescope's mirrors, which are bringing these
    extraordinary images back to us, and other scientists at our
    major flagship university, including Professor Dragomir, who's
    working as part of a team to explore exoplanets and unique
    phenomenon outside of our solar system.
        As we've been discussing this morning, the discoveries of
    this telescope not only will tell us more about the universe
    and our place in it but are helping to excite and energize a
    whole new generation of aerospace engineers and scientists and
    thinkers about the universe. And so I want to use the remainder
    of my time to ask each of our three panelists two questions.
    The first is what are you personally most excited about and
    surprised about what we're learning from the telescope? And the
    second is what is the next chapter of exploration? What is
    the--what are we learning from the Webb project that is telling
    us where we need to extend the frontiers of science and
    knowledge? So starting with Dr. Clampin, maybe could you share
    your thoughts on what are you personally most excited and
    surprised about and what the next chapter is?
        Dr. Clampin. So I've been most excited by the transmission
    spectra from exoplanets that Dr. Batalha showed. I think
    they're really exciting, and I'm looking forward to seeing
    observations that the TRAPPIST-1 system come in.
        As far as where we go next, I think the next big challenge
    is the search for life. And I talked briefly in my initial
    remarks about how we will address the decadal survey, the
    National Academies Decadal Survey, by trying to build a 6 meter
    or more space telescope that will look for habitable exoplanets
    around solar-type stars and then characterize them to look for
    evidence of life. So that's kind of where I think we're going
    next.
        Ms. Stansbury. Thank you. And Dr. Finkelstein?
        Dr. Finkelstein. So I think for the near future what I'm
    most excited about is to look even deeper. The Early Release
    Science images I've shown you, they're very shallow. They're
    less than an hour of exposure time. And in cycle 1, there are a
    number of deeper programs, including a public deep field called
    NGDEEP (Next Generation Deep Extragalactic Exploratory Public)
    that will be observed at the beginning of February. And so soon
    we will have the JWST equivalent of the Hubble Ultra Deep
    Field.
        Into the future, in the not-too-distant future I'm
    extremely excited about the potential of the Nancy Grace Roman
    Space Telescope. One of the exciting things we're finding is
    that the early universe has big, bright galaxies, and that
    telescope, although it has a smaller mirror than JWST, has a
    much larger camera. It's optimized for finding these massive,
    rare beasts in the early universe, and it's going to be
    fantastic to have that capability very soon.
        Ms. Stansbury. Amazing. And Dr. Batalha?
        Dr. Batalha. Yes, I will echo what Dr. Clampin said, but I
    wanted to add one thing about the exoplanets. The most common
    type of planet known to humanity right now is a kind of planet
    we don't even have in our own solar system. It's intermediate
    to the rocky terrestrials and the big gas giants. We call them
    super Earths or sub-Neptunes, but actually, we don't really
    understand their nature. Is this more real estate for life?
    That's a big question on our mind. And this is a class of
    planets that JWST will be able to characterize and shed light
    on exactly their nature. I'm very excited to see that happen.
        Ms. Stansbury. Amazing. Well, thank you all. And again,
    congratulations to NASA and to all of the teams who worked on
    this amazing project and for all of the exciting scientific
    discoveries yet to come. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Chairman Beyer. Congresswoman Stansbury, thank you very
    much.
        We'll now begin a second round of questions with Dr. Babin.
    And I--at least, me.
        Dr. Batalha, if you'll forgive me wandering a little bit, I
    think one of the most interesting questions in politics is does
    history have a direction? And I know it's sort of a
    metaphysical question, but I was really intrigued by your
    comments about increasing complexity and the universe coming
    together to continue to form the elements. You know, back at
    the beginning, I guess there's only hydrogen or--and now we
    have this incredible--and then combining that with Shannon's
    second law of information, that there is always more
    information in the universe in this instant than there was the
    instant before, along with the second law of thermodynamics,
    which talks about everything moving to the lowest energy state.
    How do you put that together--can you put that together in a
    way that suggests that the universe has a direction and that
    direction is complexity?
        Dr. Batalha. That's a very good question. We grapple with
    these questions. I think that they're fundamentally tied to how
    we see our place in the universe and how we find meaning. We
    observe this complexity arising. It seems very logical, like
    it's going to proceed the same way everywhere. The building
    blocks of life are in the galaxy. We see carbon dioxide, we see
    water molecules, we see this rise of complexity, even more
    complex molecules that reside in protoplanetary discs and in
    star formation clouds. So it seems very logical that life is
    just another step in that process.
        But you're asking a bigger question, which is what happens
    to life? What really is going to happen to us? Are we going to
    survive into the future? What does it look like if humans
    become spacefaring creatures? How does that affect our
    evolution, both cultural and biological? And those are
    questions that I can't answer. I don't even know if we will
    survive to the future or if that's a given. I don't know if the
    universe evolves toward goodness. These are all questions that
    I think are up to us.
        What I know is that we have the ability to affect that
    outcome, whether or not we survive to the future. And when we
    study planets and we understand the limits of habitability, we
    learn something about the sustainability of life right here on
    planet Earth. And that's one of the main motivators, I think,
    for studying exoplanets with JWST.
        Chairman Beyer. Thank you for answering a difficult
    question. And thanks, too, for pointing out that there's a
    difference between the question is there life in the universe
    versus the question is there a consciousness, other
    consciousness in the universe? Very, very different potential
    answers.
        Dr. Batalha. Yes.
        Chairman Beyer. Dr. Finkelstein, you talked about--you
    showed the incredible picture of all those different galaxies
    across the bottom. They look like six or seven different
    varieties right there. Can you talk about the structure of
    galaxies? I mean, you know, we were used to thinking the Milky
    Way and the spiral galaxy, but it looks like there's more going
    on.
        Dr. Finkelstein. Yes, absolutely. So there are a wide range
    of morphological differences in galaxies, and I have a bias. I
    think the spiral ones are the most beautiful. And one of the
    amazing things about some of those small panels is you can
    actually pick out the star clusters, those tiny little knots or
    pearls in those galaxies. Those are clusters that have hundreds
    of thousands of stars just forming. And I didn't show you
    comparison, but if you look at the Hubble images of those
    galaxies, a lot of that detail is lost.
        And so one of the results I showed you in the written
    remarks I didn't have time in my statement was what we are
    already learning about the morphology of galaxies. And in fact,
    when we first made that big image, we actually put it on a huge
    30-foot television screen we have at the Texas Advanced
    Computing Center. And one of the things we realized is when you
    look at the small galaxies, you see some spirals. And because
    they look really small, they must be really far away. And with
    the Hubble Space Telescope, the limits of Hubble, we thought
    that once you get about 10 billion years or so into the past,
    you don't really see spiral galaxies anymore. Everything is
    kind of an irregular clump.
        But now with JWST we have the resolution. It turns out the
    spirals were there; we just could not see them. And so you see
    them out to redshifts of 2 and 3. You see barred spirals, these
    elongated features in the center similar to our own Milky Way
    Galaxy. We found the highest redshift barred spiral at a
    redshift of greater than 2, so that's over 10 billion years
    into the past. And we see evidence that galaxies have these
    ordered discs, these ordered rotational motions out to maybe
    even a billion years after the Big Bang. And if you ask some of
    the theoretical astrophysicists, they would say, oh, we knew
    that was there, you just couldn't see it before. But you never
    know until you look. And now we finally have the observations
    to prove it.
        Chairman Beyer. That's very cool. You're making me jealous
    talking about the 30-foot TV.
        One more question. I think maybe to--a question from Mr.
    Posey or one of my Republican friends, that what's beyond the
    universe? Typically, with thinking that the definition of the
    universe was as far as light has expanded, rather than being
    infinite, that it's still expanding into whatever is beyond it
    or nothing that's beyond it.
        Dr. Finkelstein. Yes, I just taught this earlier this week
    in my class. So that's the difference between the observable
    universe and the entire universe. So the universe has been
    around for a finite time, only 13.8 billion years, and so we
    can only see objects that were close enough that their light
    has been able to reach us in that period of time. But to our
    best understanding, that is not all there is. There is more
    universe out there that is inaccessible to us right now because
    the universe has not been around long enough for that light to
    travel to us.
        Chairman Beyer. Great. Thank you very much.
        I now recognize Mr. Babin for his questions.
        Mr. Babin. Absolutely fascinating. Thank you. I'm going to
    bring us back down to Earth for congressional oversight here,
    OK?
        Dr. Clampin, the Government Accountability Office, the NASA
    Inspector General, the National Academies of Science, and this
    Committee conducted a significant amount of oversight on the
    JWST program over the past 20 years. We've learned a lot about
    what to do and actually what not to do. As NASA continues with
    the development of the Roman telescope and begins to consider
    other follow-on observatories, what are the top three lessons
    learned from JWST that came out of all these reports, these
    audits, these investigations and independent reviews? If you
    could, I know that's digging deep, but if you could tell us
    some of the fruits of our labors up here.
        Dr. Clampin. So I think a lot of it comes down to how you
    formulate these missions at the very beginning, the phasing of
    how the different pieces get put together. One of the things we
    did on JWST, for instance, and, you know, some other programs
    is basically get too far along with the spacecraft or the--you
    know, the absolute mission design before we completed the
    instruments. So then, you know, we need to sort of make
    adjustments to accommodate the instruments. So the first thing
    for me is you make sure that all the technologies are at the
    required maturity level and that you understand how they're
    going to work in the architecture that you're formulating, so
    you really have to think about systems rather than individual
    boxes of technology.
        I also think the schedule is very important and trying to,
    you know, formulate and execute a mission to the schedule from
    the very beginning. And, you know, that's something that I'm
    very focused on doing for the next response--you know, as we
    respond to the National Academy, thinking about the next big,
    large mission, which is this--what I call habitable worlds
    observatory, you know, getting all the technologies mature and
    at the point where we understand how they work together as a
    system before we start formulating the design for the
    observatory. And then once we build--start building the
    observatory, we're really focused on building it to a schedule.
    So those are the two main things for me. You know, the the
    larger missions really require a systems-level focus, and
    making sure you understand everything before you sort of launch
    into it is very important.
        I'm now, as I'm sure you're aware, responsible for making
    sure that Roman comes in on schedule, and Roman's already well
    along. And one of the things that I'm doing there right now is
    just making sure that we're addressing, you know, issues that
    have arisen as we've come out of the pandemic, you know, work
    force issues and supply chain issues. And we've been working to
    put in place with our industry partners innovative approaches
    to addressing some of these so that we stay on schedule.
        Mr. Babin. Yes. Thank you for your service, too.
        A second question for you if you don't mind, Dr. Clampin.
    NASA paused JWST science observations using the MIRI (Mid-
    Infrared Instrument) medium-resolution spectrometry (MRS) mode
    on August the 24th because of increased friction in one of its
    grating wheels. NASA concluded the issue was likely caused by
    increased contact forces between subcomponents of the wheeled
    central bearing assembly under certain conditions. NASA
    announced that it had developed and successfully tested a plan
    on November the 2nd and that it would resume MIRI MRS science
    observations on November the 12th starting with a unique
    opportunity to observe Saturn's polar regions just before they
    become unobservable by Webb for the next 20 years. Was NASA
    successful in implementing this plan? And how is MIRI MRS mode
    functioning now? And what level of confidence do you place on
    the issue being resolved and that it will not be an issue in
    the future?
        Dr. Clampin. So let me just assure you that, yes, we did
    get the observations of Saturn done, so I actually got an email
    late yesterday saying that they've been completed. We have a
    plan of incremental steps to bring the--this particular mode
    instrument--it is a mode, it's not the whole instrument----
        Mr. Babin. Yes.
        Dr. Clampin [continuing]. So we're bringing that back, you
    know, step by step, exercising the wheel, tracking all of the
    engineering telemetry, making sure we understand how it's
    performing as we return it to, you know, what I'll call normal
    service.
        Mr. Babin. OK, good. Thank you very much. And I'll yield
    back, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Beyer. Thank you. And I now recognize the
    gentleman from Florida, Mr. Webster, if you have any additional
    questions.
        Mr. Webster. I think I do.
        Chairman Beyer. The floor is yours, sir.
        Mr. Webster. This is to anybody. There's one picture in
    here southern Ring Nebula? How wide--or what's the dimensions
    of that nebula?
        Dr. Clampin. I have to say I think we'd have to get back to
    you on that. Off the top of my head I do not recall----
        Mr. Webster. So would you know the dimensions of any of
    these photos as far as millions of miles, billions of miles, or
    maybe you don't even measure them in miles. I don't know.
        Dr. Clampin. I think most of them have that information in
    the comments that go with the plate. I mean, they're also very
    different ones. You know, a planetary nebula in our galaxy and
    others are very deep image of the sky. But we can get you that
    information.
        Mr. Webster. Great. So have you, among yourselves or among
    just the people that work on this, is there--do you take a poll
    and see what's the most fantastic display that's been or people
    have their own ideas or is there one that sticks out as just
    the most phenomenal discovery you've made?
        Dr. Clampin. So let me just come back to your last
    question. I'm told it's about .4 lightyears across, so that
    gives you some idea of the size.
        And in answer to your second question, I think it really
    depends who you ask. I'm sure Dr. Finkelstein and Dr. Batalha
    would have very different answers, and I probably would be
    closer to Dr. Batalha. So it really depends on what field you
    work in. Everybody's sort of waiting for their particular
    observation to get done or to work on the data that's been
    taken in their particular area of interest. And I think part of
    the, you know, happiness of the science community right now is
    that, you know, they're just getting to see what these
    observations look like and how this telescope's going to change
    their particular branch of astrophysics that they work in.
        Mr. Webster. So do you have a favorite?
        Dr. Clampin. My favorite, I think, is still on the calendar
    to be observed over the next 6 months, which is the TRAPPIST-1
    exoplanet system.
        Mr. Webster. How about anyone else?
        Dr. Batalha. Can I make one point that I alluded to
    earlier? You know, you're asking about the images, these
    beautiful images. Everything we know about the--well, almost
    everything we know about the universe is from the light we
    collect in our telescopes. And the great power of JWST is that
    it can take that light and spread it out into a rainbow. And in
    that rainbow, embedded inside of that are these chemical
    fingerprints, evidence of motion, dynamics, all kinds of
    information embedded in that spectrum. So I would contend that
    the most profound images if you will are actually these plots
    of these graphical representations of the spectra because they
    contain so many clues about the nature of the universe. So I
    love the images. I'm very inspired by the deep fields showing
    tens of thousands of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions
    of stars. And I look at that image and I wonder how much life
    is represented in that tiny little speck of, you know, grain of
    sand that's been imaged. But the spectra, I think, are
    extremely compelling, and I'm really looking forward to seeing
    more spectra so we can understand the diversity of all of the
    worlds that are out there.
        Mr. Webster. So do you filter out all of the extraneous
    spectra and just get down to one particular wavelength or how
    do you how do you do that?
        Dr. Batalha. No, the power is in looking at all of the
    colors. JWST is focusing on the infrared but a very broad
    region of the infrared. And every single color tells us
    something different because the molecules that are out there
    and the atoms, they absorb each one with a unique chemical
    fingerprint. And each molecule tells you something different.
    In an exoplanet atmosphere, for example, each molecule's
    absorption happens in a different layer of the atmosphere. So
    if you look at many molecules together, you can buildup the
    whole temperature pressure profile of that atmosphere. You can
    start to understand things like climate and dynamics and really
    the history of that exoplanet, how it lived and how it has
    evolved.
        Mr. Webster. Awesome. OK. I yield back.
        Chairman Beyer. Thank you very much. We're coming to a
    close. Dr. Babin and I would love to continue to talk about the
    infinite number of universes and the metaverse and dark energy
    and all that, but it sort of wanders away from our oversight
    responsibility perhaps. I do have one more question though. Who
    is Stephan in Stephan's Quintet? Is that one of your children,
    too?
        Dr. Finkelstein. No, no. My other child is Kieran, who I
    think might be a future lawmaker, so you may see him here at
    some point.
        Chairman Beyer. That's great. Great. In the meantime, I'd
    have to say that of the eight years that Dr. Babin and I have
    been on this Committee, this is maybe tied with the
    gravitational waves hearing as the most fascinating that we've
    had. So you've been terrific witnesses. I'm really impressed
    with the depth of your knowledge and your excitement and your
    ability to transmit that to us and to the world, so thank you
    very, very much.
        So before--the record will remain open for two weeks for
    additional statements from the Members or additional comments
    on the direction of history in the universe and for any
    additional questions the Committee may ask of the witnesses.
    The witnesses are excused, and the hearing is now adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 12:04 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]