[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


.                                     
                         [H.A.S.C. No. 117-84]

                                HEARING

                                   ON

                   NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACT

                          FOR FISCAL YEAR 2023

                                  AND

                     OVERSIGHT OF PREVIOUSLY AUTHORIZED 
                                  PROGRAMS

                               BEFORE THE

                      COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

          SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE AND SPECIAL OPERATIONS

                                   ON

                    FISCAL YEAR 2023 BUDGET REQUEST

             FOR U.S. SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES AND COMMAND

                               __________

                              HEARING HELD
                             APRIL 28, 2022

                                     
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                               __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
48-632                       WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

          SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE AND SPECIAL OPERATIONS

                    RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona, Chairman

RICK LARSEN, Washington              TRENT KELLY, Mississippi
JIM COOPER, Tennessee                DOUG LAMBORN, Colorado
WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts    AUSTIN SCOTT, Georgia
FILEMON VELA, Texas                  SAM GRAVES, Missouri
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey           DON BACON, Nebraska
JIMMY PANETTA, California            LIZ CHENEY, Wyoming
STEPHANIE N. MURPHY, Florida, Vice   C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida
    Chair

                Craig Greene, Professional Staff Member
               Patrick Nevins, Professional Staff Member
                           Will Braden, Clerk
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

              STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

Franklin, Hon. C. Scott, a Representative from Florida, 
  Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations............     2
Gallego, Hon. Ruben, a Representative from Arizona, Chairman, 
  Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations............     1

                               WITNESSES

Clarke, GEN Richard D., USA, Commander, U.S. Special Operations 
  Command........................................................     5
Maier, Christopher P., Assistant Secretary of Defense, Special 
  Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict..........................     3

                                APPENDIX

Prepared Statements:

    Clarke, GEN Richard D........................................    31
    Gallego, Hon. Ruben..........................................    21
    Kelly, Hon. Trent, a Representative from Mississippi, Ranking 
      Member, Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations    22
    Maier, Christopher P.........................................    23

Documents Submitted for the Record:

    [There were no Documents submitted.]

Witness Responses to Questions Asked During the Hearing:

    [There were no Questions submitted during the hearing.]

Questions Submitted by Members Post Hearing:

    Mr. Kelly....................................................    47
    Mr. Scott....................................................    47
    Ms. Sherrill.................................................    48


FISCAL YEAR 2023 BUDGET REQUEST FOR U.S. SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES AND 
                                COMMAND

                              ----------                              

                  House of Representatives,
                       Committee on Armed Services,
       Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations,
                          Washington, DC, Thursday, April 28, 2022.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 4:30 p.m., in 
room 2118, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Ruben Gallego 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RUBEN GALLEGO, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
  ARIZONA, CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE AND SPECIAL 
                           OPERATIONS

    Mr. Gallego. Thank you, everyone, for being here.
    I am going to have to read preliminary words for our 
session online.
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room and via the television/internet feeds.
    Members participating remotely must seek recognition 
verbally, and they are asked to mute their microphones when 
they are not speaking.
    Members who are participating remotely are reminded to keep 
the software platform's video function on the entire time they 
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    If members depart for a short while for reasons other than 
joining a different proceeding, they should leave the video 
function on. If members will be absent for a significant period 
or to depart to join a different proceeding, they should exit 
the software platform entirely, and then rejoin if they return.
    Members may use the software platform's chat feature to 
communicate with staff regarding technical or logistical 
support issues only.
    Finally, I have designated a committee staff member to, if 
necessary, mute unrecognized members' microphones to cancel any 
inadvertent background noise that may disrupt the proceeding.
    All right. Good afternoon. I call to order this hearing of 
the Intelligence and Special Operations Subcommittee, a review 
of the fiscal year 2023 budget request for U.S. Special 
Operations Forces and Command.
    Special operations forces are at an inflection point. The 
2022 National Defense Strategy focuses the U.S. military's 
capabilities on strategic competition toward countering China's 
growing multi-domain challenges and Russia's persistent 
threats, which have only been further magnified by its 
unconscionable invasion and the ongoing war in Ukraine.
    U.S. Special Operations Forces have a significant role in 
countering competitors and adversaries as well as deterring 
strategic attacks against the United States. We continue to 
live in an extremely dangerous and volatile world, and special 
operations forces should be prioritized as a capability to 
counter these dangers through its counter-violent extremist 
organizations mission and other non-kinetic authorities.
    Today's hearing is focused on the fiscal year 2023 budget 
request for Special Operations Command and special operations 
forces. The budget request highlights SOCOM's [U.S. Special 
Operations Command's] support to the National Defense Strategy, 
which creates ``a strategic, asymmetric advantage for the 
Nation by bolstering the integrated deterrence capabilities and 
enhancing campaigning activities and building enduring 
advantages through innovation and modernization.''
    I would like to hear from our witnesses how the SOF 
[special operations forces] community is postured to accomplish 
this. I would also like to understand how 1202 authorities and 
SOCOM's Military Information Support Operations, MISO, can 
support our defense strategy and counter threats from China and 
Russia.
    With that, let me introduce today's witnesses:
    The Honorable Christopher P. Maier, Assistant Secretary for 
Defense for Special Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict; and 
General Richard Clarke, Commander, U.S. Special Operations 
Command.
    This will be General Clarke's last posture hearing before 
this committee as the commander of SOCOM. We appreciate your 
service to this Nation and all you have done for the special 
operations forces.
    In the interest of time, I ask the witnesses to keep their 
opening remarks brief, so that we will have more time for the 
closed session.
    With that, let me again thank our witnesses for appearing 
before us today.
    I would now recognize Mr. Franklin, in Ranking Member 
Kelly's place, for any opening remarks.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Gallego can be found in the 
Appendix on page 21.]

  STATEMENT OF HON. C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
  FLORIDA, SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE AND SPECIAL OPERATIONS

    Mr. Franklin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Ranking Member 
Kelly is here this afternoon briefly. He is going to have to 
leave. And so, he has asked that I would cover for him, and I 
appreciate that opportunity.
    And in light of that, I would like to request unanimous 
consent to submit Ranking Member Kelly's opening comments for 
the record.
    Mr. Gallego. No objections.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Kelly can be found in the 
Appendix on page 22.]
    Mr. Franklin. And I thank our witnesses for joining us this 
afternoon. I appreciate that late in the afternoon that you 
take the time to be here with us and to talk about this fiscal 
year 2023 budget request for Special Operations Command.
    I commend the critical investments contained within this 
request, especially in the undersea capabilities and the 
continued procurement of Armed Overwatch. I am, however, as we 
have discussed offline before, deeply concerned with the top-
line budget amount. Now the fiscal year 2023 request is $13.2 
billion. That is a lot of money, but it is the exact same 
amount as the last year. And when you take the record inflation 
into account, this represents a cut in real dollars. I look 
forward to hearing from our witnesses about the risks 
associated with these cuts.
    Also, I would like to express support, also, for SOCOM's 
1202 authority. It is critically important that we codify this 
authority in U.S. Code and increase the funding level to allow 
for appropriate growth. I look forward to working with all my 
HASC [House Armed Services Committee] colleagues this year to 
make this a reality.
    Additionally, I stand with Ranking Member Rogers in support 
for increasing our force posture along NATO's [North Atlantic 
Treaty Organization's] eastern flank, especially with our SOF 
formation. It is critically important for us to support our 
eastern NATO allies, like the Baltics, Poland, and Romania.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Gallego. Thank you, Mr. Franklin.
    We will now hear from our witnesses, and then move into 
question-and-answer session. Immediately following questions, 
we will reconvene for the classified session, which will take 
place in Rayburn 2212.
    And I now recognize the Honorable ASD Maier.

   STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER P. MAIER, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF 
     DEFENSE, SPECIAL OPERATIONS AND LOW-INTENSITY CONFLICT

    Mr. Maier. Chairman Gallego, Ranking Member Kelly, and 
Congressman Franklin filling in for ranking member, and 
distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify on the global posture of our Nation's 
special operations enterprise.
    I am honored to testify alongside General Clarke, one of 
our country's most dedicated military professionals. On a 
personal note, I would like to thank General Clarke for his 
leadership and very important partnership during his tenure as 
the SOCOM commander during a time of major transformation and 
strategic importance.
    I also appreciate the leadership of Command Chief Master 
Sergeant Greg Smith, who is here today, who models the senior 
enlisted leadership that is so critical to the success of our 
special operators.
    The dedication, service, and sacrifice of our SOF leaders 
and the SOF community motivates me each and every day to ensure 
we are doing all we can to provide them the ways and means to 
win, regardless of the challenge.
    I would also like to thank Congress, and particularly this 
ISO Subcommittee, for its steadfast support for our SOF 
warriors and their families.
    Ever since the establishment of USSOCOM, our strong 
partnership with Congress has been instrumental to fielding the 
world's most capable and elite special operations force. We 
continue to make progress in advancing Congress' intent to 
institutionalize the role of the office I lead, Special 
Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict, or SO/LIC, within the 
Department of Defense.
    Sustaining and enhancing the competitive advantage of the 
U.S. military depends on our effectiveness in providing 
civilian oversight and backing of the SOF enterprise. This 
group of extraordinary military, civilians, and contractors has 
proven itself to be essential to the U.S. military and our 
strategic success.
    In today's increasingly complex security environment, the 
SOF enterprise provides our Nation's leaders with agile, 
scalable, and discrete options to address challenges across the 
spectrum of competition, crisis, and conflict. SOF play an 
essential role in the National Defense Strategy by holding 
adversary systems at risk and by enhancing our allies' and 
partners' ability to resist aggression and malign influence.
    Even as we transition the SOF enterprise to achieve 
enduring advantage through integrated deterrence and active 
campaigning in the gray zone, we continue to enhance our 
capabilities to conduct high-priority counterterrorism and 
crisis response operations.
    The President's fiscal year 2023 budget request for SOF 
reflects these priorities in modernizing our maritime 
capabilities and investing in artificial intelligence and other 
key technologies. The budget also supports the Armed Overwatch 
program to ensure our SOF have the required support in remote 
and austere environments where they operate.
    As reflected in the fiscal year 2023 budget, we continue to 
invest in the well-being of our SOF warriors and their 
families. Our flagship Preservation of the Force and Family 
program, or POTFF, complements service-administered programs to 
address the unique physical, cognitive, psychological, and 
spiritual performance needs of our SOF community.
    Our ability to draw upon a diverse set of talents and 
perspectives is essential in our success in a changing 
operational environment and to SOF's unique ability to engage 
and collaborate with allies and partners around the world.
    This week, General Clarke and I issued the USSOCOM 
Diversity and Inclusion Implementation Action Plan, which 
incorporates key initiatives to optimize our service diversity 
outreach programs, recruiting opportunities, and identifying 
barriers to accession for our teammates.
    Women continue to make major impact within the SOF 
community. And in the past 2 years, the first three women 
successfully completed Special Forces Qualification, and last 
year, the first woman qualified as a Naval Special Warfare 
Combatant Crew member, or SWCC. We are proud of these warriors' 
individual achievements and continue to actively promote a 
career in SOF for all who meet our rigorous standards.
    Lastly, I would like to briefly mention the ongoing war in 
Ukraine. Among many observations, it serves as a daily reminder 
of the importance of building the capabilities and resilience 
of our allies and partners. As we watch the Ukrainians employ a 
number of elements of irregular warfare against a larger force 
to great effect, we should internalize the need to continue to 
grow our own irregular warfare skills and continue to develop 
and refine irregular warfare options for our Nation's leaders.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to testify 
today. I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Maier can be found in the 
Appendix on page 23.]
    Mr. Gallego. Thank you very much.
    And now we have General Clarke.

   STATEMENT OF GEN RICHARD D. CLARKE, USA, COMMANDER, U.S. 
                   SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND

    General Clarke. Chairman Gallego, Ranking Member Kelly, and 
Mr. Franklin representing, thanks. It is great to be here, and 
thanks for the opportunity. I am honored to testify next to the 
Honorable Maier with me today.
    Joining, also, is Chief Greg Smith, USSOCOM Senior Enlisted 
Leader. This is Greg's final time appearing before this 
committee before he retires after 33 years in uniform. Most 
importantly, he is representative of the 75,000 men and woman 
of this command, and I am extremely grateful each and every day 
for his wise counsel.
    Your special operations forces create strategic, asymmetric 
advances for the Nation across the spectrum of conflict. 
USSOCOM bolsters deterrence through our campaigning activities 
daily. We are innovating and modernizing to build enduring 
advantage, while strengthening our force and family.
    Amid continual changes to the rules-based international 
order, maintaining a range of credible options underpins our 
Nation's strategic advantage. We have witnessed Russia's 
unprovoked and unjustified invasion of Ukraine, China's 
coercive and malign activities in the Indo-Pacific, and efforts 
by other states and non-state actors, including violent 
extremists, to sow instability.
    In this dynamic environment, SOCOM's enduring value resides 
in our ability to combat those asymmetric threats, particularly 
in the gray zone and below the threshold of conflict. We employ 
precision and surprise to prevail in conflict and respond in 
crisis, and our formations support the resilience and 
resistance efforts of our allies and partners, often through 
sustained, long-term partnerships with their special operations 
forces.
    Regardless of the threats we face, SOCOM represents a 
critical strategic hedge to respond in crisis. Exquisite, 
tailored capabilities enable us to undertake sensitive and 
high-risk missions, crucial to safeguarding our citizens and 
protecting our Nation's vital interests.
    A cornerstone of these efforts remains in our longstanding 
partnership with ASD(SO/LIC). The oversight, policy guidance, 
and advocacy within the Department of Defense provided by 
ASD(SO/LIC) are essential for the modernization, readiness, and 
well-being of our special operations forces and their families.
    Together, we are committed to sustaining trust by 
strengthening our culture of accountability. We are preparing 
for future threats by unlocking our Nation's diverse talent, 
and we are leading with our values through our continued 
efforts to mitigate civilian harm.
    As we speak here today, more than 5,000 men and women from 
SOCOM are defending our Nation and standing shoulder to 
shoulder with partners in over 80 countries worldwide. The 
courage and commitment of our 75,000 members of our special 
operations community are inspiring.
    As this may be my final opportunity to appear before this 
subcommittee, I would emphasize it has been the honor of my 
lifetime to serve with these men and women every day. I look 
forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of General Clarke can be found in 
the Appendix on page 31.]
    Mr. Gallego. Thank you, General Clarke.
    And we will jump into questions.
    The first question is for ASD Maier. Do you believe the 
1202 authority is an enduring requirement and should it be 
permanent in law?
    Mr. Maier. Chairman, I do believe it is an enduring 
requirement. I would leave it to the Congress to determine 
whether it needs to be permanent, but I see no reason why, 
based on the strategic environment we have and the direction we 
have from the National Defense Strategy, that an authority that 
allows irregular warfare and closer cooperation with partners 
is not going to be essential for decades to come, sir.
    Mr. Gallego. General Clarke.
    General Clarke. I do appreciate the advocacy of this 
committee for that enduring authority. We can see the benefits 
of it directly from Ukraine, where our special operations 
forces have been working with the Ukrainians for the last 7 
years. And I can see, can greatly see its use in other 
environments.
    Mr. Gallego. Chris, ASD Maier, with the Principal 
Information Operations Advisor [PIOA] onboard, do you believe 
this office will be able to provide oversight on IO operations 
across the Department? And is the Office of ASD(SO/LIC) using 
this office and its authority to ensure synchronization and 
coordination of efforts for information operations and MISO?
    Mr. Maier. Chairman, I think, to answer your second 
question first, we are using this office. We are having to 
build it. So, it is not at its full power in terms of both 
capabilities and people. But the key point of the legislation 
was to do a posture review, and then a strategy. I think that 
will point the way to what additional requirements are needed 
across the Department.
    I have had a number of conversations, even in the last 
week, with Secretary Austin about the need to build our 
information capabilities across the Department, and I think we 
see that very well manifest, as General Clarke already alluded 
to, in some of our Ukraine irregular warfare needs. And, I 
mean, the Ukrainians are doing an incredible job, and we take 
small measure in the work we have been able to do with them. 
And I think that is a good example for what we would see in the 
future.
    But, to the PIOA, the most important part of that is having 
an advocate at the direct-report level to the Secretary. So, 
the Under Secretary for Policy is that PIOA. We need to 
continue to build the bench of IO professionals that can help 
further reinforce and get a degree of irreversible momentum in 
the Department, sir.
    Mr. Gallego. And this is a very dangerous question to ever 
ask. But, General Clarke, what is your number one funding issue 
or priority?
    General Clarke. The majority of our funding is to ensure 
that we are conducting the proper operations that we need to do 
going forward, and that covers a wide swath. But it is really 
to make sure that the operations and maintenance funds that 
allow our special operators to deploy, to protect this Nation, 
are the most important thing that we need to fund.
    Mr. Gallego. And with that, I hand this over to the ranking 
member standing in for the ranking member, Mr. Franklin.
    Mr. Franklin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    General Clarke, as we have discussed, the $13.2 billion 
budget is essentially flat for 3 years, which, in light of 
inflation, does represent a cut, as we had talked about. For 
the first time in the organization's history, you are going to 
be looking at personnel cuts. What would you not be able to 
accomplish with this budget that is high on your unfunded 
requirements list?
    General Clarke. Congressman, the aspect with this budget is 
that just we won't be able to go as fast as we would like to in 
some of our modernization and some of our future capability 
development. And so, as you hit it, what we did was submit an 
unfunded requirements list.
    Mr. Franklin. Yes.
    General Clarke. And that list points to some of those 
specific things that we would like to accelerate, if that 
additional funding was given. We submitted 28 different 
requirements for about $650 million for SOCOM, which is about 6 
percent of our budget.
    Mr. Franklin. Very good. I am supportive of increasing our 
force posture in Eastern Europe; specifically, Baltics, Poland, 
and Romania, and especially with our SOF personnel. Do you see 
value in increasing SOF's presence along NATO's eastern flank?
    General Clarke. I think it is not as much the increase in 
people as it is the capability to make sure that we have the 
right capabilities in the right places. As you well know, we 
have been in the Baltics and we have remained a partner of 
choice, I believe, with our SOF partners in Eastern Europe for 
a while. I would have to reevaluate with General Wolters and 
our Special Operations Command Europe for specific additional. 
But, for the current Ukraine crisis, we put additional people 
and capabilities forward to assist with that crisis.
    Mr. Franklin. And that is an investment that has been going 
on for some time. As we have talked about and has been noted in 
the press, the Ukrainians have put up a much stronger fight 
than a lot of people are going to give them credit for. And I 
think a lot of that credit goes back to the partnerships that 
have been formed over these years. I don't know if this is the 
forum where we want to talk about that, or if there is anything 
in the UNCLASS [unclassified] setting, could you elaborate a 
little bit on the benefit that we have seen from those 
partnerships?
    General Clarke. Congressman, in this setting, those 
enduring partnerships that we have had with the Ukrainian 
forces in the Ukraine since they were invaded by Russia in 2014 
have been critical. They have been enduring. And it is not just 
the U.S. and the Ukrainian, but we have also brought in many of 
our NATO allies, have also been shoulder to shoulder with us in 
the Ukraine, you know, training side by side with the Ukrainian 
partners. So, it is the relationships that we have built with 
many of our NATO allies that have really helped tie this 
together.
    Mr. Franklin. Well, I am reminded of the old ``train like 
you fight, fight like you train.'' The time to figure it out is 
not when the war is hot.
    General Clarke. That is exactly right.
    Mr. Franklin. The fiscal year 2023 budget request cuts 
funding for maritime support vessels; namely, the Carolyn 
Chouest for you all. Does the requirement still exist, and if 
so, what is SOCOM unable to do without this capability?
    General Clarke. Well, Congressman, we are working very 
closely with INDOPACOM [U.S. Indo-Pacific Command], 
specifically, for the maritime support vessel that you were 
talking about. That vessel, just like any afloat staging base--
and as a former Navy officer, you understand how important 
proximity is in locations--but the maritime support vessel in 
and of itself is not a SOF-specific requirement or SOF-specific 
funding issue. We are really looking to the services--in this 
case, the Navy and INDOPACOM--to provide that capability that 
will allow us better proximity to some of the issues in the 
Indo-Pacific, so that we can be placed in the right positions.
    Mr. Franklin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Gallego. Thank you.
    Representative Sherrill.
    Ms. Sherrill. Thank you.
    And, General Clarke and Command Chief Master Sergeant 
Smith--yes, I did have to read off the Air Force enlisted 
designation--I just want to take a minute to thank both of you. 
Few people in our military have seen more combat than the two 
of you. You have spent a lifetime serving this country in some 
very difficult circumstances. I don't think I can overstate the 
debt of gratitude our Nation owes to both of you. And so, I am 
very sorry to see both of you leave, but well deserved. So, 
thank you so much for your service.
    On a bit of a lighter note, I also would like to take just 
a minute to recognize a great member of the class of 1994, 
Colonel Brooks, who was just picked up for general. You have 
made our class incredibly proud, and thank you for your service 
as well to our Nation.
    General Clarke, I believe that irregular warfare and 
information operations are extremely important to the modern 
joint force. The unconventional operations underway in the 
European and Indo-Pacific theaters are a testament to their 
importance. Do you think that the President's budget provides 
adequate funding for the continued success of, and expansion 
of, the unconventional warfare program?
    General Clarke. Congresswoman, we have sufficient budget to 
execute those programs in this budget. However, as we look at 
some of the specific, as you talk about, information operations 
programs, I think with additional funding we could speed up the 
modernization and the capabilities for our forces and apply 
additional technologies, like artificial intelligence and 
machine learning.
    As you have visited, I believe, our Joint MISO WebOps [Web 
Operations] Center, and seen how we pull that all together, 
additional funding towards the information operations programs, 
which is in our unfunded requirements list, I think will make 
us better, and it will provide additional capabilities.
    Ms. Sherrill. Thank you.
    And, Mr. Maier, the fiscal year 2023 budget highlights 
provided by SOCOM list $13.6 million for SOF tactical vehicles, 
and more specifically, quote, ``the development and testing of 
joint light tactical ECPs and integration and testing of diesel 
hybrid electric capabilities.'' Could you talk a bit more about 
these efforts to incorporate hybrid electric/diesel motors into 
the SOF tactical vehicle family? And are such efforts being 
employed across the spectrum of the SOF mission portfolio? Is 
the command exploring electrification and hybrid options for 
platforms used in special reconnaissance, foreign internal 
defense, and counterterrorism missions?
    Mr. Maier. Congresswoman, this is actually a Department-
wide initiative to look at various different ways to make our 
capabilities more survivable and more sustainable over time. 
And we view this, I think, not only at the Department level, 
but at the special operations level, as an operational 
imperative. It is entirely possible that there will be 
circumstances in which having alternative fuel vehicles will be 
necessary.
    And I think we have all seen the effects, objectively, of 
global warming. And so, climate change becomes a driver, as we 
look for a sustainable force over decades to come, ma'am.
    Ms. Sherrill. And then, the Armament Center at Picatinny 
Arsenal, New Jersey, plays a significant role in modernizing 
the U.S. Special Operations Forces' ammunition and equipment to 
meet the needs of the warfighter. Through the efforts like 
fielding and sustaining the 105-millimeter and 30-millimeter 
ammunition for AC-130 gunship fleets, and through projects such 
as the next-gen IR [infrared] seeker decoy and multi-mission 
small unmanned aerial systems, the Armament Center's importance 
cannot be overstated.
    As the SOF community continues to modernize against global 
strategic competition, will special operations forces look to 
the Armament Center for ammunition and equipment modernization? 
What sort of projects or initiatives that are underway at 
Picatinny would SOCOM like to see supported in the future?
    And I don't know, General Clarke, if you have any thoughts 
as well.
    General Clarke. The partnership with all the armament 
centers, and what we do with the services, really helps. We 
take projects, and Picatinny specifically has helped us with 
some of our light machine guns and with some of our medium-
level machine guns and sniper weapons. And they do a tremendous 
job, and it really helps leverage a SOF requirement. And then, 
sometimes the other services will pick up those requirements 
and see the value of a certain weapon system, and then, they 
can scale it. So, we really appreciate what Picatinny, in 
particular, but other armament and military systems do for us.
    Ms. Sherrill. Thank you so much, and I yield back.
    Mr. Gallego. Thank you, Representative Sherrill.
    We now have Representative Scott.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And, gentlemen, thanks for being here.
    A couple of my questions have already been answered: the 
persistent engagement with partners like Ukraine. The 1202 
authority that the chairman asked about, I think we share the 
desire to make that permanent.
    A quick question on that: the definition of ``irregular'' 
with regard to irregular warfare; if there are adjustments that 
need to be made in that definition, I think it would be helpful 
if you could share that with us, whether in this setting or 
another setting, or if the definitions are good and we simply 
move ahead with what we have. Secretary, are the definitions 
what you need?
    Mr. Maier. Congressman, I think the definitions are sound 
enough. The one point we always make when we talk about 
irregular warfare is that, while SOF may be the lead or the 
preponderance of the corps on this, we need the rest of the 
joint force to be effective in that space. But 1202, as I think 
your question poses, the definition of irregular warfare there, 
I think we are comfortable with it, and it has proven to be 
effective, sir.
    Mr. Scott. Okay. General, my understanding is that, if 
something is not changed, that you could see a reduction of as 
many as 400 personnel. Is that correct?
    General Clarke. That is correct, Congressman. There is a 
SOF-directed cut of slightly over 400 for fiscal year 2023.
    Mr. Scott. Okay. And that cut is in an appropriation 
language from the past year, is that correct?
    General Clarke. Do you know if it is in the President's 
budget?
    Mr. Scott. I apologize. Secretary, do you know where that--
--
    Mr. Maier. Congressman, it is part of the President's 
budget. It requires a cut of about 440, and most, if not all, 
of that is in unfilled billets or headquarters at this point.
    Mr. Scott. Okay. All right. We will look for that language, 
and I think most of the people on the committee will probably 
look to remedy that as best as possible. If we are looking 
about expanding the operations of irregular warfare, it seems 
to me that we need to be very careful about how many personnel 
we would reduce.
    One thing that I have tried to focus on is SOCOM. And it 
bothers me, General and Secretary, that we lose so many 
Americans to the illegal drug overdoses, the majority of which 
comes from Central and South America. And it seems to me that 
Southern Command kind of gets the leftovers, if you will. And 
yet, more Americans die because of what happens in that part of 
the Western Hemisphere than have ever died because of 
terrorism.
    The budget request that you have, do you have the resources 
that you need to dismantle the illegal drug networks operated 
by the international cartels in Central and South America?
    General Clarke. Congressman, that specific mission for the 
Department has not been given to USSOCOM.
    Mr. Scott. Okay.
    General Clarke. We do employ forces underneath SOUTHCOM 
[U.S. Southern Command], where we are assisting certain 
countries in the SOUTHCOM area of operations, to assist them 
with some of the terrorist and some of the threats to their 
countries. There is clearly a nexus between criminal 
organizations and terrorist organizations.
    Mr. Scott. Sure.
    General Clarke. So, I think, by extension, some of that is 
impacted. But the funding that you talk about as being 
sufficient isn't necessarily a SOCOM aspect.
    Mr. Scott. Okay.
    General Clarke. But I think Mr. Maier would have a comment 
further on that.
    Mr. Maier. I would say, Congressman, too, the broader DOD 
[Department of Defense] mission is principally to support law 
enforcement in these spaces. And the DOD mission is really 
monitoring and helping with interdiction generally. Where we 
see shortfalls at times is the lack of law enforcement 
capability to act on even some of the tipping and queuing we 
are able to do for law enforcement. So, I think it is a 
complicated problem, sir, that probably deserves more 
explanation than we have time here to provide.
    Mr. Scott. I think at one point we were letting more than 
90 percent of the shipments go that we actually had actual 
intel on. And I think that is something that we, as the United 
States, need to do a better job with.
    But I appreciate all of you, and thank you for your time.
    Mr. Gallego. Thank you, Representative Scott.
    Representative Murphy.
    Mrs. Murphy. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    And, General Clarke and Chief Smith, I am sad to see you 
two joining me in the great retirement, but I do want to 
associate myself to what Ms. Sherrill said, and thank you both 
for your incredible service to this country. And just note that 
it has just been a real pleasure working with you both, and I 
know that you will run through the tape, just as I plan to do, 
and I hope we can continue to work on some of these 
initiatives.
    And to that point, I mentioned this to you yesterday, and 
we have heard a bit of conversation today about 1202. I am 
working with Congresswoman Stefanik to make it permanent, as 
well as to increase the annual funding for the authority to $25 
million.
    And I will reserve my question about how you would use that 
additional resources for the secure portion, but move on to ask 
you that I see that you have requested $14 million to support 
the Joint Task Force Special Reconnaissance Enabling Command. 
That is a mouthful. Can you tell me more about this JTF and how 
is this funding going to be used?
    General Clarke. Congresswoman, the Joint Task Force Special 
Reconnaissance Enabling Command is something that this command 
stood up as a subordinate command. It is commanded by a one-
star, in this case, Army general. It could be a joint; it could 
be any service going into the future.
    And it is specifically to look at, for SOCOM, our most 
sensitive activities that we could be conducting global. And it 
is to synchronize and enable and deploy the capabilities that 
exist within SOCOM to be able to take these problems and ensure 
that they are properly coordinated with the interagency and 
with the other combatant commanders, and with the Department of 
Defense.
    In a closed session, I can give you some type of specific 
things that they would be doing. But as we look at our most 
vexing problems globally that SOCOM needs to put attention on, 
this command enables us to, in fact, tackle those problems.
    Mrs. Murphy. Mr. Maier, what do you see as SOCOM's primary 
role in an era of great power competition? I know there has 
been a lot of conversation about how to balance the continued 
need to focus on counterterrorism missions with the evolving 
challenges of actors like Russia and China.
    Mr. Maier. Congresswoman, I think that is a critical point. 
This evolution we are underway is not one of moving wholly away 
from where we have been, but making what we have been doing 
sustainable for the Nation--counterterrorism and crisis 
response--while we increasingly support the joint force in what 
we know is going to be a complicated strategic environment with 
peer adversaries or near-peer adversaries like China and 
Russia.
    Specifically, I think some of the attributes that SOF has 
demonstrated over the last 20 years to great effect still apply 
here. So, the partners and allies have proven to be very, very 
useful, and I think Ukraine has proven that. And it is, indeed, 
a comparative advantage we have vis-a-vis the Chinas and the 
Russias. And that is something that has been built over lots of 
years of close interaction.
    SOF also has placement and access in places that the rest 
of the joint force does not have, and that in some cases 
unlocks much greater capability that we and our allies can 
bring. And I think, ultimately, you know, we talked a little 
bit earlier about the irregular warfare; some of that is the 
inherit problem-solving or ability to look at a complicated 
problem and bring other aspects of the interagency or the 
Department of Defense together in a way that often isn't baked 
in the same way in other communities.
    So, I think General Clarke would share this view--we have 
talked about it a lot--the lessons we have learned over the 
last 20 years and put into practice apply here. We just need to 
do them differently--in some cases, faster, in a more 
technology-empowered way.
    So, I am very bullish, and I think we have got the right 
task. We just need to make sure that we are doing it in the 
right way, in a thoughtful, balanced way, ma'am.
    Mrs. Murphy. Great. Thank you, and I look forward to 
hearing the additional specifics on 1202 and the JTF when we go 
to closed session.
    Thanks. I yield back.
    Mr. Gallego. Thank you, Representative Murphy.
    Representative Bacon.
    Mr. Bacon. Thank you.
    I appreciate you both being here. I appreciate your 
leadership.
    I congratulate both the commander and the command chief for 
a wonderful career, and you have been wonderful to work with.
    All my questions are directed more to General Clarke. Your 
obstacle was high, is high, and will be high. And yet, if I 
understand right, the budget for SOCOM is flatlined. Is that 
the case? It is a flat-line budget? You are getting zero 
increase?
    General Clarke. That is correct, in the requested budget at 
this point, yes.
    Mr. Bacon. Right. And yet, we have 8.5 percent inflation. 
So, that works to about an 8.5 percent cut to your budget. So, 
you have touched on this a little bit with the previous 
questions, but what does an 8.5 percent cut to your budget--how 
does that affect the future of SOCOM? What are those impacts?
    General Clarke. It really goes to speed and how quickly can 
we modernize. And so, we have to make tough decisions. We have 
to balance to still conduct the missions that we have going 
forward, and prepare and train. And we are going to do that 
within the budget we have, but I think it goes to the speed 
that we can modernize. And we look at some of our adversaries 
and how quickly they are modernizing, and we may not keep pace 
with the capabilities that we need to develop.
    Mr. Bacon. But by definition, with an 8.5 percent inflation 
and a flat-line budget, this is a reduction for SOCOM. I just 
think we ought to be clear about that. And the budget overall 
was a 4 percent increase for DOD, but domestic non-military 
spending was a 12 percent increase. So we see the priority of 
the administration here: non-military spending, 12 percent; 
military, 4 percent--with inflation at 8.5 percent. And the 
budget for DOD overall was inadequate. And I think you are 
paying even a bigger price on there. So, I just wanted to make 
that clear.
    Before I go to my next question, I want to congratulate the 
whole team, though. What you did in Ukraine from 2014 until 
now, most people do not know about it. You were training 
Ukrainians how to defend themselves, how to organize. Can you 
touch on that a little bit, General Clarke, because this is an 
unheralded part of what America did. I give credit to 
Ukrainians for fighting hard and putting their hearts and souls 
into this fight, but we were helping with that training. And if 
you could touch on that, I would be grateful.
    General Clarke. Yes, sir. Our special operations forces 
helped develop and work with other allies to come into Ukraine 
and help build up the Ukrainian special operations forces, 
where during that time they doubled in size; but I would say 
they also not just increased their size, but they increased 
their capabilities over that time. And it was the collective 
organizations that did that. And I think we have also got to 
give credit to some of the National Guard forces that were also 
training the Ukrainians at the same time.
    But I think one aspect is that it was a lot of our civil 
affairs, our psychological operations, and our special forces 
that were also working side by side with the Ukrainians. So, it 
wasn't just combat forces, but it was also other parts of 
special operations that work very closely with their Ukrainian 
partners.
    Mr. Bacon. I think this is a point of pride for our 
country, the great work that you did.
    Your number two unfunded requirement is the procurement of 
counter-unmanned aerial vehicles to counter the UAVs. And I 
think this is critical. We are seeing them all over the world. 
They are attacking in Saudi Arabia. They are attacking us in 
Iraq.
    What does it mean for you to have this capability or to not 
have this capability, if you don't get it funded?
    General Clarke. Thanks for bringing this one up because, as 
you just pointed out, the threat from unmanned aerial systems 
from our adversaries is already here and it is growing. And the 
capabilities that we, as a nation, need to continue to develop 
for in the combat zones today, where some of our forces are 
being attacked, to places in the future where they could be 
used, it could even come back into our homeland.
    And I think we have to look very hard as a nation in making 
sure that we put efforts into this. SOCOM already has a 
significant investment in this portfolio, but as you note, we 
have asked for additional funding in our unfunded requirements 
list to ensure that we are developing the capabilities. As I 
said earlier, our unfunded request would speed them up, so that 
we can make sure that we have the capabilities we need today.
    Mr. Bacon. Thank you. I think this is something we can work 
on, as a committee, to make happen.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Gallego. Representative Larsen.
    Mr. Larsen. Thanks.
    General Clarke, thanks for coming in today. The first 
question is for you, and it is about the recently published 
Diversity and Inclusion Implementation Plan of March 2022. With 
you and Master Sergeant Smith leaving soon, one concern I would 
have is the handoff and ensuring that the new uniformed 
leadership of SOCOM has a strong commitment to its 
implementation. Can you discuss where this is going to sit and 
the handoff?
    General Clarke. Yes, sir. Well, one, it is cosigned with 
Mr. Maier. So, is ASD(SO/LIC) providing that oversight and 
guidance? I have no doubt--because, you know, we have talked 
about it--that he will ensure any future leadership puts this 
in place.
    But I think, more broadly, this is about culture, and this 
is about making sure that the entire organization has bought 
in. And as you and I discussed but for the broader committee, 
every single commanders' conference that we come together as a 
command--we do these quarterly with all the commanders in 
SOCOM--this, along with culture and accountability from our 
Comprehensive Review, are at the top of the list, and we talk 
about how we have to get better.
    So, I believe that it is great that Chief Smith and I are 
bought into it, but I would also suggest that our subordinate 
commanders and their commanders and senior enlisted leaders are 
also bought into unlocking and making sure that we have the 
talent of America that wants to come to SOCOM is welcome, and 
that once they are here, we are inclusive of and we retain 
them.
    Mr. Larsen. Thanks.
    And, ASD Maier, on that point, the new vision and strategy 
that you both signed off on does include the strategic plan and 
[inaudible] desire to increase the ``diversity of ethnicities, 
races, beliefs, perspectives, and experiences, in our formation 
to meet the complex challenges facing the Nation.'' 
Essentially, that, honestly, the face of the U.S. is changing 
and we need to change with it, so that we reflect the U.S., but 
also take advantage of the opportunities that gives us. Can you 
talk about your commitment to the implementation of the D&I 
Plan?
    Mr. Maier. Congressman, so echoing General Clarke's points, 
one of the benefits of the structure that Congress has set up 
here is that, in the context of civilian oversight, we have a 
continued role to ensure that the force and the command stay 
focused on this. I have no doubt whatsoever that the 
leadership--because I have joined many of those discussions 
that General Clarke was referencing--is focused on this.
    I think, to get to the specifics of your question, not only 
do we need to be reflective of the Nation that we represent, 
but there is capabilities and richness in that community that 
can be applied operationally and strategically to the 
challenges we have. It is a different fundamental problem set 
when you are going against terrorists than it is against peer 
adversaries that have allies and partners around the world.
    And if we can't do some of the core things I already 
mentioned in the context of placement and access, allies and 
partners, then some of the imperatives that SOF brings is lost. 
So, not only is it the right thing to do for the health of the 
force and some of the things that General Clarke already 
mentioned, there is an operational reason to do it. It just 
makes us better in taking on the Nation's challenges, sir.
    Mr. Larsen. Thank you.
    I want to shift to the Preservation of the Force and Family 
program, or POTFF. It is another issue we discussed, General, 
earlier. And I understand that, with the budget that has been 
proposed, there is a potential real cut to POTFF and the 
support for families. Can you discuss that and where that sits 
in your unfunded priorities requirement?
    General Clarke. Certainly. As we looked at the Preservation 
of Force and Family and we looked at SOCOM's overall budget, 
the Preservation of the Force and Family internal would take 
about an 8 percent cut to next year's budget. I did not put it 
in the unfunded requirements because, really, the focus on that 
was on modernization and building capabilities.
    What I think the real cuts could be is it could come to 
some of our service providers that are out at the tactical 
formations, that we may have to make some tough decisions and 
potentially reduce a slight amount of services to some of our 
service members and their families.
    Mr. Larsen. Given that, ASD Maier, then what can you tell 
us about your commitment to the future of POTFF?
    Mr. Maier. POTFF is critically important, I think, for our 
forces. It's, as I said in my opening statement, Congressman, 
really the standard. I remain very committed to that, including 
the additional--some of the cognitive care aspects that we 
think is very important.
    One of the challenges, though, to be very direct, is POTFF 
is very expensive, and with it, the more that we add additional 
elements of the SOF enterprise, the more expensive it becomes. 
So, it is a challenge, and it is one of the things that I talk 
regularly to some of the component commanders that are closer 
to the problem, and they express some of those same challenges. 
As it has become more attractive and more people are using it, 
the usership goes up, and therefore, it becomes in more demand. 
So, it is something that I think, from the force readiness and 
care of our service members and their families, it is clearly 
important on my list, sir.
    Mr. Larsen. Thanks. Maybe in the course of the folks who 
want an $800 billion defense budget over here, they can throw 
some peanuts at the POTFF budget and top it up. So, thanks. 
Appreciate that.
    Mr. Gallego. Thank you, Representative Larsen.
    If there are no further questions, the open session of the 
hearing is adjourned, and we will reconvene in 2212 for the 
classified session.
    [Whereupon, at 5:18 p.m., the subcommittee proceeded in 
closed session.]

    
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                            A P P E N D I X

                             April 28, 2022
      
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              PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

                             April 28, 2022

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              QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS POST HEARING

                             April 28, 2022

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                    QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. KELLY

    Mr. Kelly. How does SOCOM currently use commercial geospatial 
imagery? What would you identify as intelligence gaps within SOCOM in 
geospatial imagery? Are these gaps being met or can they be met by 
using commercial imagery from Earth observation companies? Given 
SOCOM's global mission, is there a capability currently within the 
Command--commercial or other--that monitors the entirety of the Earth 
every day that could be used to inform other assets of change? If not, 
could a capability like this--a daily data global imagery feed--benefit 
SOCOM?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
    Mr. Kelly. General Clarke, operators in USSOCOM are the some of the 
most highly trained and capable operators in urban environments. During 
urban combat operations, USSOCOM operators have proven themselves to be 
highly capable in clearing operations. It is my understanding that 
their capabilities in these types of operations have been enhanced by 
commercial off-the-shelf capabilities allowing them to complete their 
missions more safely in communications and GPS denied environments. 
What role do you see that same technology playing in the crisis of 
Ukraine, particularly as the increasingly urban conflict demands more 
humanitarian support/recovery and clearing operations?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
                                 ______
                                 
                    QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. SCOTT
    Mr. Scott. Is SOCOM looking at utilizing directed energy for 
current and future capabilities to provide non-kinetic effects for 
SOCOM missions?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
    Mr. Scott. Is SOCOM experiencing any challenges in acquiring 
critical/emerging directed energy non-kinetic technologies? If yes, how 
can Congress help address those challenges?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
    Mr. Scott. The United States must continue its transition away from 
COIN to Great Power Conflict. Much like other services, SOCOM must also 
adapt by adopting emerging and disruptive technologies such as 
autonomy. Given the decrease to SOCOM in the FY23 budget, how does 
SOCOM plan on using autonomy to amplify and supplement a reduction in 
the end force manpower?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
    Mr. Scott. In what operational environments and against what threat 
actors will SOCOM find the greatest utility in employing autonomous 
systems?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
    Mr. Scott. What lessons can we learn from the war in Ukraine about 
the role of autonomy in future conflicts and its applications for the 
SOF community?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
    Mr. Scott. Is the United States Special Operations Command prepared 
for large scale combat operations today?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
    Mr. Scott. Can you talk about the value of persistent and continued 
engagement with the Special Forces of Romania?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
    Mr. Scott. Can you talk about the value of persistent and continued 
engagement with the Special Forces of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
    Mr. Scott. Can you talk about the value of persistent and continued 
engagement with the Special Forces of Poland?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
    Mr. Scott. Can you talk about the value of persistent and continued 
engagement with the Special Forces of Georgia?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
    Mr. Scott. Chief Warrant Officer-3 Jason Gambill, U.S. Army, wrote 
an article entitled ``China and Russia Are Waging Irregular Warfare 
Against the United States: It is Time for a U.S. Global Response, Led 
by Special Operations Command'' in the November 2021 issue of 
Proceedings. According to the author, ``The U.S. can create an enduring 
IW GPC strategy to conduct measured actions through a Joint Interagency 
Task Force (JIATF), that combines resources and authorities. Individual 
members of a JIATF will need to call on their partners in private 
industry to pursue necessary technology and expertise needed to address 
Chinese advantages in economic and technological IW. An overarching 
JIATF can ensure the ends are properly supported with enough means and 
ways properly planned and executed to reduce strategic risk.'' 
Moreover, according to the author, ``DOD lacks the structure and 
methodology to synchronize the capabilities of its various services, 
combatant, and functional commands to conduct global irregular warfare. 
To tackle these problems, U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) could 
act as the synchronizer for all USG IW efforts as the single global 
coordinating authority. SOCOM could also lead DOD's efforts to 
collaborate, coordinate, and execute an irregular warfare strategy for 
great power competition across the interagency, with private industry, 
and with international partners.''
    Should the United States establish a joint interagency task force 
led by SOCOM to better command and control irregular warfare efforts?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]
                                 ______
                                 
                   QUESTION SUBMITTED BY MS. SHERRILL
    Ms. Sherrill. The rapid increase in the presence of adversary small 
Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS) in operational theaters has highlighted 
the importance of Counter small Unmanned Aerial System (C-sUAS) 
solutions to protect our tactical advantages. The Department of Defense 
recognized this as a requirement and designated the U.S. Army as the 
Executive Agent for C-sUAS. As this organization matures I note that 
there are a number of excellent systems being fielded for fixed sites, 
but I am not seeing a concerted effort related to on-the-move 
solutions. A particular area that is relevant and important for SOF. 
From a SOCOM perspective, where are we on this front and how can we 
accelerate deployment of OTM such solutions for SOF units and then move 
the mature technology into larger Army programs of record?
    General Clarke. [A classified response was provided and is retained 
in committee files.]

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