[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
MAKING CONGRESS WORK BETTER FOR THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE: A RECOMMENDATION STA-
TUS REPORT
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE
MODERNIZATION OF CONGRESS
OF THE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
JANUARY 20, 2022
__________
Serial No. 117-14
__________
Printed for the use of the Select Committee on the Modernization of
Congress
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via http://govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
48-606 WASHINGTON : 2022
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SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE MODERNIZATION OF CONGRESS
DEREK KILMER, Washington, Chair
ZOE LOFGREN, California WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina,
EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri Vice Chair
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado BOB LATTA, Ohio
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota RODNEY DAVIS, Illinois
NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia DAVE JOYCE, Ohio
GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
COMMITTEE STAFF
Yuri Beckelman, Staff Director
Derek Harley, Republican Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Chairman Derek Kilmer
Oral Statement............................................... 1
Vice Chairman William Timmons
Oral Statement............................................... 2
WITNESSES
Mr. J. Brett Blanton, Architect of the Capitol
Written Statement............................................ 4
The Honorable Cheryl Johnson, Clerk of the House of
Representatives
Oral Statement............................................... 10
Written Statement............................................ 12
Ms. Catherine Szpindor, Chief Administrative Officer, House of
Representatives
Oral Statement............................................... 19
Written Statement............................................ 21
Discussion................................................... 33
MAKING CONGRESS WORK BETTER FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE: A RECOMMENDATION
STATUS REPORT
----------
Thursday, January 20, 2022
House of Representatives,
Select Committee on the
Modernization of Congress,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to call, at 9:02 a.m., via
Zoom, Hon. Derek Kilmer [chairman of the committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Kilmer, Perlmutter, Phillips,
Williams, Timmons, Latta, and Joyce.
The Chairman. I will bang the virtual gavel, and the
committee will come to order.
Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a
recess of the committee at any time.
I now recognize myself for 5 minutes for an opening
statement.
First off, I just want to wish everyone a happy new year
and Representative Phillips a happy birthday. We apologize for
the early morning singing.
This is our first hearing of 2022, and what better way to
kick things off than with a look at how the committee's
recommendations are actually making Congress work better for
the American people.
Our implementing partners have done an amazing job of
putting the committee's ideas into action and making sure that
our hard work lives well beyond our tenure. That is important
and so central to the mission of this committee.
I say this because change isn't possible without action. We
can talk about fixing Congress and come up with great ideas
until we are blue in the face. That is the easy part. The hard
part is figuring out how to bring those great ideas to life.
And it definitely takes a village. And I am so grateful for the
tenacity and creativity that our partners bring to the table.
We could not do this important work without them.
And I also want to just take a moment to acknowledge the
groundbreaking work this committee has done not only to pass
recommendations but to ensure that our recommendations are
implemented. In assigning these responsibilities equal weight,
the committee, according to the Congressional Research Service,
might very well be the premier example of a reform committee
that managed to both recommend and implement during its tenure.
We should all be proud of that. And by ``all,'' I mean this
committee's members and its staff as well as our implementing
partners and their staff. Listen, Congress can be a tough place
to get things done, but I think we are proving that it is
possible.
To date, the committee's passed a total of 142
recommendations to make Congress a more efficient and effective
institution. Over 60 percent of the 97 recommendations passed
in the 116th Congress have been implemented or have seen
meaningful action toward implementation. Twenty-four have been
fully implemented, and 15 more are nearing full implementation.
That is a tremendous accomplishment, and we are just
getting started. There is so much work currently underway on a
bunch of new projects to get off the ground. And I am really
looking forward to hearing from our witnesses today about the
great work they have done and have planned.
I also want to hear about how the committee can support
your work and any modernization ideas you have that we haven't
already thrown at you.
This is a little tricky in a virtual format, but we are
going to try to use the committee rules we adopted last year
that give us some more flexibility in the Q&A portion of a
hearing. Our goal is to encourage thoughtful discussion and the
civil exchange of ideas and opinions.
So, in accordance with clause 2(j) of House rule XI, we
will allow up to 30 minutes of extended questioning per
witness. And, without objection, time will not be strictly
segregated between the witnesses, which will allow for extended
back-and-forth exchanges between members and witnesses.
Vice Chair Timmons and I will manage the time to ensure
that every member has equal opportunity to participate. Any
member who wishes to speak should just raise their virtual
hand, and either Vice Chair Timmons or I will make sure you can
jump in.
Additionally, members who wish to claim their individual 5
minutes to question each witness pursuant to clause 2(j)(2) of
rule XI will be permitted to do so following the period of
extended questioning.
Okay. I would like to now invite Vice Chair Timmons to
share some opening remarks as well.
Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to thank everybody for joining us for the
first hearing of 2022. And I want to thank our witnesses for
being here to provide an update on their progress in
implementing this committee's previous recommendations.
In my view, our hearing today has two purposes: first, to
give our witnesses, our partners in implementation, an
opportunity to discuss the good work that is being done to
improve the House and help us better serve our constituents;
second, to hear about the recommendations that still need some
attention, to identify obstacles, and to learn how we can work
with you to begin to move those recommendations forward.
It is important to highlight here that our committee
doesn't make recommendations merely for the purpose of building
a historical record. Rather, we are here to make actual change
to improve how Congress works. And we can do that by following
up on the recommendations we have made and by doing what we can
to ensure that they are implemented.
Indeed, this has been one of the distinguishing aspects of
this select committee, and I believe it is an advantage that
the committee's extension through the entirety of this Congress
has afforded us. I give the chairman and our fellow committee
members credit for making implementation a priority as we have
continued our other work.
I also want to say that, while we have seen some
implementation success thus far, that does not mean it is time
to rest. The committee is authorized for 1 more year, and we
intend to run through the finish line. There is much left to do
to make Congress work better for the American people.
In that vein, we have been discussing what the committee's
agenda for this year, our final year, will look like, and I am
also looking forward to learning today if our witnesses have
any ideas for other recommendations and topics that we might
consider as the committee moves forward.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
The Chairman. Thanks, Vice Chair Timmons.
I am pleased to welcome our witnesses who are here to
provide status updates on the select committee's
recommendations.
Before introducing our witnesses, I just want to quickly
acknowledge that Brett Blanton, the Architect of the Capitol,
was unable to join us after some last-minute committee
scheduling hurdles. We tried to move this committee meeting up
as a consequence of votes. You all have the written testimony
that he submitted, and that will be part of the record for this
hearing as well.
[The statement of Mr. Blanton follows:]
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The Chairman. Witnesses are reminded that your written
statements will be made part of the record.
Our first witness is Cheryl Johnson. Ms. Johnson is the
Clerk of the House, a role she has held since 2019. Previously,
she served as the director of the Smithsonian's Office of
Governmental Relations.
Ms. Johnson has had a long career on Capitol Hill, having
served in numerous offices for nearly 20 years, including as
chief education and investigative counsel for the House
Committee on Education and the Workforce and as director and
counsel for the Committee on House Administration's
Subcommittee on Libraries and Memorials.
She holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in journalism and mass
communication from the University of Iowa and a Juris Doctorate
from Howard University.
Ms. Johnson, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENTS OF CHERYL L. JOHNSON, ON BEHALF OF THE OFFICE OF THE
CLERK OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES; AND CATHERINE SZPINDOR,
ON BEHALF OF THE OFFICE OF THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER
STATEMENT OF CHERYL L. JOHNSON
Ms. Johnson. Thank you. Good morning, Chair Kilmer, Vice
Chair Timmons, and members of the committee. Thank you for
inviting me to testify.
The Office of the Clerk pursues numerous and diverse goals
and priorities. Primary is supporting the day-to-day operations
of the House. I have submitted my written testimony, and I will
highlight some of it now.
To start, one of the recommendations made by this committee
has been implemented already. With this Congress, the House
rules continued the policy adopted last Congress that allows
committees to electronically submit committee reports and
related material electronically. Clerk staff implemented and
maintain a secure, email-based solution. This change in process
was welcomed and has had no negative impact.
Related to the electronic submission of committee reports
is the electronic submission of bills and resolutions. Members
and staff can do this via the eHopper, a secure, email-based
alternative to the historic wooden box on the House floor. The
eHopper is now the House's primary way of introducing bills.
Currently, my staff is working to deliver an improved
eHopper experience for Members and their staff. This updated
solution will meet the needs of the bill clerks as they process
an increasing number of bills, while improving the user
experience for Members and staff.
As the committee is aware, my staff, along with the Office
of Legislative Counsel and contractors, continue to build a
suite of software programs that will create comparisons between
legislative texts. Understanding legislative text changes is
critical to making decisions on pending legislation.
As part of our pilot program, more than 160 individuals
from across the House committees have access to the software.
Their collective feedback about the system's usability,
learnability, and accuracy of the system is positive and
helpful.
Currently, the project team is working on operational tasks
related to House-wide deployment, including migrating the
application to a cloud environment. We are looking forward to
delivering the Comparative Print suite House-wide pending the
completion of the migration to the cloud and the required
security audits.
A critical but often dry topic to discuss is standard-
setting. However, it is a delight to know that a small,
dedicated group of staff from my office, the Senate Secretary
Office, GPO, and the Library of Congress and others are doing
just that. The United States Legislative Markup standard will
allow for a more modern production and exchange of our
congressional legislative documents.
This standardization work is important and a required
foundation for modernizing the lawmaking process. We value this
committee's continued support of this project.
Additionally, my written testimony mentions the work we are
doing around the lobby disclosure system. Given the system's
age, we recommend that the system be redesigned and built anew.
A contemporary system will improve the user experience, provide
more efficient processing, and provide strategies for
maintaining a single account for lobbyists regardless of a job
or name change.
In addition to the work I have already mentioned, Clerk
staff are researching two potential projects that impact the
committees: a central location to share committee vote data and
the creation of a common scheduling tool for committees.
To assist in our analysis and scoping of this work, we are
working to release two RFIs, requests for information, for the
purpose of gathering information and investigating possible
solutions, and we expect that the RFIs will be released later
this month.
Finally, I want to lend my support to other recommendations
that this committee has made--namely, the recommendations to
improve staff recruitment, diversity, retention, compensation
and benefits, and to improve accessibility. I fully support
these recommendations.
Thank you again for this opportunity to speak before the
committee, and I look forward to your questions.
[The statement of Ms. Johnson follows:]
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The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Johnson.
Our next and final witness is Catherine Szpindor, the Chief
Administrative Officer for the House. She has served in this
role since 2020. Previously, she served as the Chief
Information Officer for the House. She joined the House in 2011
as the Director of Enterprise Applications and was promoted to
Deputy CIO before becoming CIO.
Prior to working for the House, she was the vice president
of IT for Thomas Nelson Community College. She holds a Master
of Science degree in information systems from Mercer University
and a Certificate in Strategy and Innovation from the
Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Ms. Szpindor, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF CATHERINE SZPINDOR
Ms. Szpindor. Thank you. I want to thank Chairman Kilmer,
Vice Chairman Timmons, and members of the Select Committee on
the Modernization of Congress.
Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the progress that
the Office of the Chief Administrative Officer has made in
implementing recommendations made by the select committee. I am
pleased to report that the CAO has made significant progress on
many of the recommendations of the select committee, and I will
highlight some of our efforts today.
On August 9, 2021, the CAO officially launched the House
Human Resources Hub, a one-stop shop of human resources best
practices. The site now contains over 90 resources, tools, and
other references for employees who are responsible for hiring,
developing, and retaining Hill staff. The H.R. Hub resources
are designed to be used as best practices, tips, and tools, and
they provide a solid foundation that offices are encouraged to
utilize, adapt, and customize to meet their unique needs.
Our new staff training program called ``CAO Coach'' was
launched in June 2021, and the response has been overwhelmingly
positive. CAO Coach aims to train staff to do their jobs in a
way that is relevant, efficient, and dynamic.
To date, we have hired four coaches, two experienced former
chiefs of staff, and two experienced former district directors,
and in the coming months, we plan to add two legislative
directors.
The coaches have hosted highly attended programs featuring
their colleagues as panelists. They are creating one-on-one
video series for every job position in a House office--that is
significant progress--and hosting staff networking events,
helping to facilitate retreats, and providing customized
trainings at the request of Member offices.
The coaches have had more than 485 confidential sessions
with individual staffers on topics such as managing office
budgets and staff, to approaching difficult casework, and to
how to introduce a bill.
The CAO is implementing the select committee's
recommendation to create a Congressional Leadership Academy to
offer training specifically for Members. As we prepare to roll
out this new program, the CAO is currently hiring and training
a diverse team of world-class leadership consultants that will
work with the Members on the leadership, management, and
resiliency skills necessary in our challenging and dynamic
environment.
To address the select committee's recommendation to expand
the use of digital signatures for a majority of House business,
CAO teams have made significant progress while launching Quill,
the electronic signature system for congressional group
letters, and rolling out electronic signatures for constituent
casework forms, currently used on 265 Member office websites,
as well as a digital privacy release form for IRS-related
casework.
Additionally, we just initiated a project to modernize and
simplify administrative forms requiring Member signatures, such
as the Payroll Authorization Form and the Student Loan
Repayment Program Enrollment Form.
The select committee recommended we improve Member access
to innovative technology tools that enhance offices'
operations. In response, the CAO is building a House digital
service team to, one, identify and deliver solutions that
improve on Member offices' most significant challenges; two,
bring ideas and methodologies from the private sector into
spaces within the House that have more freedom to experiment
and iterate; three, leverage modern development tools to
rapidly prototype and build production-grade software and to
deliver better products and services to the House.
The efforts of the select committee to further
modernization for the House are tremendous and commendable. The
CAO is making substantial progress on these modernization
efforts. To make the most use of funds established for these
initiatives, we must carefully balance all requests and
recommendations that we receive to ensure we provide the best
services possible with the funding allocated to us.
I am honored that I and my employees--and the employees are
very significant in their contribution and their desire to work
on these recommendations, and we can play a critical role in
implementing recommendations established by the select
committee.
I want to thank the members and staff of the committee for
your support. We look forward to a continued and constructive
relationship. Thank you.
[The statement of Ms. Szpindor follows:]
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The Chairman. Thanks so much to you both for your
testimony.
I want to now recognize both myself and Vice Chair Timmons
to begin a period of extended questioning of the witnesses. Any
member who wishes to speak or ask a question can just raise
their virtual hand.
Ms. Szpindor, I was hoping to just start with you.
Specifically, our committee is, I think, really double-clicked
on some of the issues related to staffing, just recognizing how
important the staff of the institution is to the function of
the institution. There are a few areas where I just was hoping
we could get a bit of an update.
There was a recent staff capacity report. The House OIG
advocated for raising the staff cap to 25 from 18 full-time
employees as a short-term solution and then removing the cap
altogether as a long-term solution. I was just hoping for your
comment on those recommendations and if you can tell us what
you think would be necessary to implement changes like that.
Ms. Szpindor. Well, we have spent some time reviewing the
report from the OIG and talking with them, and we think it was,
quite frankly, a very excellent report that they provided.
We generally support their conclusions that--however, there
are costs that I think everyone needs to be aware of, such as
benefits and services, that are not covered by the MRAs. So I
think some reasonable cap, probably around the 25-person cap
that they were recommending, is a good number to start with.
To implement, of course, requires planning. And the first
point is, the current staff cap is set in statute, so, of
course, we would have to make sure that we take care of that
change.
And then what we would like to do is work with the
committee to make sure that we are identifying the costs that
would be requested for services and staff. Right now, those
services and cost for benefits is not covered within the MRA,
and that has been running, currently, approximately about 40
percent of the current cost of salary.
So those are things that we are going to need to look into.
They are not anything that we cannot do, but just to make you
aware that there are some things that we have determined that
we are going to need to work with you on and work with the
committee to make this happen.
The Chairman. Sticking on the theme of staff retention, I
was hoping for an update on just two specific recommendations
the committee made. We have made a host of recommendations
related to expanding the tuition assistance program. And then
you mentioned in your testimony the Staff Academy.
Ms. Szpindor. Yes.
The Chairman. And, certainly, opportunities for
professional development can be part of retention.
One of our recommendations in the last Congress was for the
creation of certification documents so individual staff
positions, through the Congressional Staff Academy, you could,
in essence, validate your continued training and get certified
and kind of work your way up a certification ladder.
Can you give us just an update on both where things are
with the certification within the Staff Academy and then the
expansion of tuition assistance?
Ms. Szpindor. Certainly.
As far as our staff--let's talk about the Staff Academy
certifications first. As far as--we do have some courses that
are certified and we provide certifications for them. We are
looking at other types of courses, and will continue to look,
by which we can do that. We are looking, as I said, at
developing classes right now for different staff to take based
on their particular position within a Member office.
We believe, if we build that out, not only just with the
coach program that we are working on but also with our Staff
Academy videos, instructor-led training, and others, that we
will have a very good package of training that someone can
take.
All of that is maintained within our system where we track
our training, and anyone can go and get a complete listing of
all the courses that they have completed successfully.
We are going to have to work at defining what is a required
certification for a particular position within the House. And I
think that is something we are going to have to work on with
you to determine what are the qualifications for any positions
that would determine that they are certified.
I think that another question that was asked at one point
and some discussions we have had with the committee is around
tuition assistance as well. And money would need to be
appropriated, of course, for that, because usually some--it can
be anywhere between $2 million to $6 million annually that
could be allotted for tuition assistance. But we are open to
work with you on the tuition assistance program.
The Chairman. Okay. I am tempted to ask a followup on that,
but I want to make----
Ms. Szpindor. Please.
The Chairman. [continuing].--Sure to give other members
time.
Ms. Szpindor. That is fine.
The Chairman. One thing I will--and we can take it----
Mr. Timmons. Go ahead, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. [continuing].--We can take it offline. I
guess I am just wondering, that is not necessarily so, is it?
Because, currently, there are offices that don't fully tap
the tuition assistance program as it is currently constructed,
right, where you are basically paying off people's loans. You
know, I think the idea of this committee is to give folks, kind
of, front-end help if they are--you know, if I have an MLA who
wants to get a master's degree in national security, I could
use part of that allotment and help them sort of pay the
tuition in real-time rather than help do loan repayment on the
back end.
I would love to see more funding appropriated to that. But
I am just wondering, is that necessarily so? Couldn't an office
choose to--if we just changed the rules, couldn't an office use
that allocation for that purpose?
Ms. Szpindor. We think that, if we work through House
Admin, there are changes that are possible, yes.
The Chairman. Perfect.
Vice Chair Timmons.
Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
During Ms. Szpindor's testimony, I couldn't help but
remember when I was an intern on the Hill and people would
bring the letters around and you had the big auto-pen machine,
and, inevitably, you never put the signature exactly where you
wanted it, and it was always very stressful.
So the interns and staff assistants these days will not
ever appreciate what it was like to be the last signature on a
letter, now that we have electronic signatures. I just--that
struck me.
I want to ask about schedules, strangely enough.
Ms. Johnson, one of the biggest challenges to the workflow
in Congress are the scheduling conflicts created by overlapping
committee meeting times. In the 116th Congress, the committee
recommended the creation of a committee calendar portal to help
reduce the number of conflicts.
Could you talk about what work has been done to implement
that recommendation? And have you come across any challenges as
this tool is being developed?
Ms. Johnson. As I mentioned in my oral statement and is
expanded on in my written statement, we are looking to put out
a request for information to work with an outside vendor to sit
down with us and see what type of software we can develop for
this. So we have not, as of yet, fully investigated all of the
information that we need for this.
Personally, I was struck by, I mean, just even today's
hearing, the fact that we had to change it to accommodate the
votes that were going on on the floor today. So that certainly
will be one of the matters that the vendor takes into
consideration, how reactive we are to what goes on on a daily
basis as Congress is constantly in flux.
Mr. Timmons. I think we all appreciate that. Is this
something you think we could get done this year, or is that
going to be a challenge?
Ms. Johnson. I would think--I don't know how to answer
that, in that we are going, at the end of this month, just to
get a request for information. That is not even a request for a
contractor. So information is just coming up with a design. So
the first step would be trying to design such a system, and
then the second step would be development. And, with everything
that we do in the House, accuracy and security is paramount.
So we would like to strive towards this year, but we also
have a number of other projects, and that is always the
concern. With the number of recommendations that we are working
on, where is the priority? Because, in terms of our project
team, we only have one project team, and we have multiple
projects. So that one project team is working on the
Comparative Print suite, the enhanced eHopper, and at the same
time tending to day-to-day operations.
Mr. Timmons. Sure. No, I hear you, and I know that we have
made a lot of recommendations. I think that the schedule--
between Congresses is always the best time to try to make
changes to these conversations, and having that resource by the
end of year, I think, would be very helpful. But we can talk
about that more later.
I have one more question, again, Ms. Johnson: the
committee's recommendation on a committee vote database. You
mentioned the disparate systems and applications in use across
committees and that careful consideration needs to be made as
you implement that recommendation to ensure that we are
improving workflow and transparency without causing unintended
harm.
Can you expand on that? What are the challenges that we are
facing with that recommendation?
Ms. Johnson. Again, each committee certainly has the
discretion to design its voting system as it desires. There is
no standardized process, as it is on the floor.
On the floor, as you know, votes are available--within 15
minutes after the vote, you can go to the Clerk's website and
pull up how a Member voted. With the committee, it is a little
more challenging. The committee vote process may be open a lot
longer, or there could be so many votes, there might--you know,
a defense committee hearing may have 15 votes, or Veterans'
Affairs.
So, given the number of votes, given the varied committee
process of votes, those are some of the challenges.
Mr. Timmons. Would you think that we should standardize
that across committees and remove their ability to not have the
same platform and application? Or----
Ms. Johnson. Well, it would certainly help. I mean,
standardization--there are tradeoffs. Standardization certainly
gets us quicker to more transparency. But, then, committees are
unique. So we really have to--you all should discuss what it is
that you are willing to give up for the benefit of
transparency.
But I want to be clear: We don't take a position here in
the Clerk's Office. You make the decision, you provide us the
reasonable time and sufficient resources, and we will certainly
make certain that it is developed and implemented, and we will
do so with very high-quality standards.
Mr. Timmons. Sure. I really appreciate that. Thank you.
I think that is something we should look into, Mr.
Chairman, just creating a portal, a platform that everyone can
use. It can be a versatile platform that meets all the
different committees' needs, but standardization, I think,
would go a long way.
Thank you, Ms. Johnson.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
The Chairman. Thanks, Vice Chair Timmons.
Mr. Latta.
And just a reminder to members: If you have a question,
feel free to raise your virtual hand if you want to get in on
this conversation.
Mr. Latta. Well, thanks very much, Chairman and Vice Chair,
for today's hearing.
And to our witnesses, thanks very much for being with us.
My other life down here--I am the ranker on
Telecommunications and Energy and Commerce. I am just curious,
with everything that we are doing electronically today, what
are we doing in both of your spheres out there when it comes to
making sure that we are cyber-secure out there?
Ms. Szpindor. Is that for me----
Mr. Latta. For both of you.
Ms. Szpindor [continuing]. Or for either one of us?
Mr. Latta. Right. For both of you.
Ms. Szpindor. And I am sorry. I didn't hear the question
clearly. Could you please----
Mr. Latta. Yeah.
Ms. Szpindor [continuing]. Repeat it?
Mr. Latta. Again, with everything that we are doing
electronically today, and, you know, again, we are not pushing
as much paper, you know, we are trying to reduce that for your
office and the Clerk's Office, what are you doing to make sure
on the cyber side--because, again, everything that we talk
about today is how do we protect everything? Because, all of a
sudden, all you have to do is have one attack and, all of a
sudden, then we are really shut down. So what are we doing out
there to protect ourselves?
Ms. Szpindor. Well, our cybersecurity team is working--for
everything that we roll out, for all the technology we have,
they do assessments on all of our systems to make sure that
they do meet cybersecurity requirements, that they are behind
the proper firewalls, that they have the proper review and
auditing and analysis that they require on an ongoing basis.
We have 7-by-24 support for our cybersecurity team by those
who are monitoring to make sure there are not any unusual
circumstances that are occurring.
We are currently under a review by KPMG of all of our
cybersecurity processes, including staffing and policies,
procedures that we are doing. And we have had them come in and
do a review several years ago. We are doing it again. We want
to make sure that there is nothing that we need to be including
that we are not.
Mr. Latta. Madam Clerk?
Ms. Johnson. We use many of the systems and procedures that
Catherine, the CAO, just mentioned. Cybersecurity is one of
those areas where there is a lot of collaboration between the
Clerk's Office and the CAO's Office.
I would also like to point out, with many of our systems,
they are closed systems, meaning they are one-way. One of the
examples I can give you is your voting card. Your voting card
is an internal system, and that voting card could only be used
to vote.
There was a proposal at one point, not by this committee,
but there was a proposal at one point that the voting card
might also be used as a security card to enter certain areas.
And the Clerk's Office was completely against that, because we
only want that voting card to have one dedicated purpose, to
make certain that the vote is secure at all times.
But it is also exercised with most of our electronic
functions--checking and rechecking and rechecking, as Catherine
mentioned.
Mr. Latta. Madam Clerk, let me follow up with another
question. You know, as we always want to make sure things are
flowing on the floor and keeping things moving, do you have
suggestions on what we could do to make, you know, floor time
the best time that we utilize? Any recommendations?
Ms. Johnson. I--we----
Mr. Latta. Not to put you on the spot.
Mr. Johnson. I mean, personally, I just think we have come
a long way with the--you know, it is a little difficult to
answer because we are in COVID now, and so votes tend to last
longer because you are trying to do some type of distancing and
not having so many people in the Chamber at one time.
But, prior to COVID, we had gotten down where, if there
were a long series of votes, we would have even 3- to 5-minute
votes----
Mr. Latta. Right.
Ms. Johnson [continuing]. For very long series.
Mr. Latta. I remember our 2-minute amendment votes.
Ms. Johnson. Yes. Correct.
And, you know, hopefully, we will get through this pandemic
and we could go back to some sort of efficiency in voting.
Mr. Latta. Just a real quick followup on that, because,
again, you know, when I first came down here, you know, we had
our 15 minutes, and then we thought, well, let's try, you know,
to keep things changing. We got things down to, you know, 5
minutes and then 2 minutes.
Is there any problem with those 2-minute votes for you all
when we have those? Do we function pretty well right now with
the 2 minutes?
Ms. Johnson. We function pretty efficiently with the 2-
minute votes. We have a great--a very, very, very good team.
Mr. Latta. Thank you.
Well, Mr. Chair, I am going to yield back the balance of my
time.
The Chairman. Thanks, Mr. Latta.
Mr. Perlmutter.
Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
You know, just thinking about the different areas I was
concerned about a few years ago about modernizing Congress, we
have taken some really, I think, good steps on human resources,
you know, updating and upgrading our personnel kinds of
policies and things like that. And I want to thank this
committee and our witnesses in that effort.
I think we have made some strides on technology. And part
of it, you know, was intentional, and part of it was
``necessity is the mother of invention.'' We had to because of
COVID, and, you know, the ability to really have good
communication through a Zoom type of approach like this.
I am still concerned--and I would ask the chairs that we do
have the Architect of the Capitol join us for a hearing in the
near future, because I am not--I need to know more about the
campus proposals and the layout he suggests.
Because one of the concerns we have all had is, the basic
structure of a committee room, you know, does not lend itself
to collaboration. It lends itself to conflict more than
collaboration. This, actually, Zooming, you know, I can look at
William and, you know, know if he is listening to me or not.
You know, Dean is asleep; I know he is not. So, you know, it
gives us a chance to really kind of just judge how people are
responding to things.
So I would love to get the Architect of the Capitol in, and
I am sorry he is not here.
Now, here is my question. And then I will yield to Mr.
Phillips. But the one place where I see that there is something
on the horizon but we haven't really implemented anything yet--
there will be significant change next year. Whether Democrats
hold the House, there are a lot of people moving on--for
instance, me. If the Republicans take the House, there are
going to be, obviously, changes--is on that leadership
training, so that if Mr. Latta or Mr. Timmons or Mr. Phillips
are all suddenly chairs, that they know what the resources are,
they know how to run their committee, they are able to hit the
ground running.
So my question to you two is, what are we doing on the
leadership training piece of these things?
Ms. Szpindor. I can go first.
For Members and for their Member offices or to assist them
also with any other responsibilities they may have with
committees, I mentioned we are--and I am personally
interviewing people, looking for some of the top consultants in
management/leadership training in the United States.
And I have worked with my staff; we have selected some
individuals to participate and a person to lead that particular
team of individuals. We hope to have more information on it in
the next couple of weeks.
Because, right now, what we are doing, for those that we
have selected, we are getting them onboarded from an
acquisition standpoint, but we are also looking to give them
some preliminary training on a framework that we are
recommending that they all understand and adhere to.
So, even though every consultant may be approaching things
a little differently, they are all adhering to the same
overarching framework for how they are going to work with the
Members one-on-one, with their staff, and help them in, one,
setting goals for their offices, two, understanding that they
are needing their team to work together to make sure that the
Member is able to perform the functions that he has to perform
or she has to perform.
Mr. Perlmutter. I guess I would also suggest that, if they
are out there--and I don't know whether they are--that, you
know, from both sides of the aisle, you know, maybe somebody
who has chaired a particular committee, you know, and has gone
through, you know, trial by fire as to how to manage and run
the committee--because there will be business aspects that a
management consultant could present but also the political and
sort of management aspects of being a Member of Congress.
So, if there are some retired folks out there who have been
chairs, you might bring them in for a class or two, would be my
suggestion.
Ms. Szpindor. And we have discussed that. We----
Mr. Perlmutter. Okay.
Ms. Szpindor [continuing]. Have discussed that.
We are also working with the Congressional Management
Foundation to provide us some podcasts with discussions by
previous Members of Congress on various topics as well. And we
will be introducing that also in the next several weeks.
Mr. Perlmutter. Okay. Thank you.
And I will yield back to the chair.
Ms. Johnson. Could I----
Mr. Perlmutter. Oh, sure.
The Chairman. Yes, please go ahead.
Ms. Johnson. Could I just add that, here in the Clerk's
Office, we have a course called ``Committee Clerk'' in the
Congressional Academy where we train the committee clerks to
make certain that, in any transition--and even if there is not
a transition in leadership; just on a day-to-day basis, there
is a lot of turnover--but to make certain that the committee
clerks continue to have development, professional development.
Mr. Perlmutter. Great. That is exactly what I am talking
about, or it could be the committee parliamentarian or counsel
or----
Ms. Johnson. Right.
Mr. Perlmutter [continuing]. Whatever too. All right. Thank
you. I am glad to hear that.
And I will yield back.
The Chairman. Thanks, Mr. Perlmutter.
Mr. Phillips.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Szpindor. I would like to ask you about space. You
know, as you know, we have made some recommendations about
allocation of space, one of them creating a bipartisan Members
gathering area in the Capitol.
As you think about space allocation in the Capitol complex,
you know, what do you think are the most pressing issues that
we face? And if you could wave a magic wand and make some
changes, what might they be?
Ms. Szpindor. Well, first of all, happy birthday.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you.
Ms. Szpindor. And, you know, space is a premium, even for
the CAO. We have I think every inch of every office that we
have fully utilized.
I do believe that we are doing a good job in administering
any of the committee rooms that we have. We have a registration
process for that. But, as far as additional space, we beg and
borrow, as well, within the CAO to negotiate any additional
space.
I don't have a lot of input into space for the Members,
other than we make sure that the space you have, we have our
teams and our logistics group that are going to help you in
designing and trying to make the most optimum use of the space
that you do have.
Mr. Phillips. May I just ask, just for my own edification,
you know, who controls space ultimately? Whose domain is that?
And I am not sure if anybody has a complete grasp on this.
If you could just articulate, you know, who ultimately makes
those decisions in the Capitol complex, at least on the House
side in this case.
Ms. Szpindor. We go through our Committee on House
Administration to request space for us.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
Ms. Szpindor. And we are working also at times with the
Architect of the Capitol. I think that they primarily are the
ones that have a pulse on all the space that is available
across the Capitol buildings.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. All right. Well, thank you, ma'am. I
appreciate it.
Ms. Johnson one quick question for you too. In your
testimony, you had articulated a system to track lobbying
disclosures. And I would love if you might just spend a moment
just sharing with us a little bit more on that and letting us
know if you believe you have the authorities and the funding
already to pursue such a system.
Mr. Johnson. Currently, we do not have the authority. We--
--
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
Ms. Johnson [continuing]. Are still in discussions. The
committee hasn't given us direction in terms of how far we
should go.
And this is one--because lobbying disclosure is in
conjunction with the Senate side as well, so it is both
chambers working together----
Mr. Phillips. Yeah.
Ms. Johnson [continuing]. On that project.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. All right. I appreciate it.
I yield back. Thank you very much.
Ms. Johnson And happy birthday as well.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you so much. I do appreciate it.
The Chairman. Indeed, happy birthday, Mr. Phillips.
Let me just ask--I am not seeing if anybody else has
further questions.
I am just curious on two fronts: one, whether--you know,
obviously, a lot of offices over the last year have figured out
how to telework. And my sense is, that is going to be part of
the institution's future, where you may not go back to having
every member of a staff in every single day.
That may actually be helpful as we look at, for example,
raising the staff cap, because there is a question of, how do
you fit all these people into one office?
I guess I am just curious for your thoughts on that, going
forward.
The other thing I want to ask: One of the recommendations
the committee just made prior to the holidays was around, sort
of, co-working space. You know, I think our thought here is
that you would have some space set aside that, if a couple
offices wanted to collaborate on something or even, let's just
say for the sake of argument you had 25 people in the office on
a given day and you had to have someplace for a team member to
go, that there might be some space that--you know, not unlike
we see in private industry, where there are, sort of, co-
working opportunities.
Do you see that as something that could be implemented? Is
that more likely to be implemented in the realm of more
teleworking happening?
Ms. Johnson. Well, I can go first.
And, even before the pandemic, the fact that some of our
staff is in O'Neill, across the highway, here with our offices
in the Capitol we have some hotel space so that that space is
dedicated for persons who need to be in the Capitol or closer
to the floor on a given day. Persons would not work at their
O'Neill space but would take a desk and a computer here in the
Capitol.
And in terms of what we are doing right now, we--for
protective staffing, we have, let's say, six tally clerks.
Currently, we are only bringing in two or three a day--we have
Team A and Team B--to make certain that we have a healthy staff
number at all times to support legislative operations. So three
would work from home and three would come in, depending on what
day it is. Because our concern is always to have the
appropriate staff to make certain that Congress can continue
its business on a daily basis.
But, yes, in the future, we do see more and more telework.
I think it is the only way we are going to be able to stay
competitive, particularly with our IT persons.
Ms. Szpindor. And I would tell you, I am a proponent of
people teleworking, even without the pandemic. It has been
necessary, but I do believe it is what we are going to see in
the future.
One, as we look to fill positions, particularly technical
positions, more and more individuals are asking in the
interview if they could telework. It is growing in popularity.
And I will tell you, a huge majority of our staff do
telework every single day, especially our engineers on the IT
side in the HIR. In the past 2 years, we have moved data
centers remotely, copying data from one data center to the
other. There is very little that many of our organizations
cannot do remotely.
Of course, we have to have our logistics crew onsite. We
have to have our continuity group, many of them, onsite at
times. There are some of our payroll, our front--our Member-
facing, staff-facing organizations have, from the very
beginning of COVID, been onsite, and commendably so, supporting
and making sure that the House operations continue to work like
they are supposed to.
And I know Cheryl----
The Chairman. We sure appreciate that. Please thank them
for us too.
Ms. Szpindor. Yeah. They work very, very hard.
The Chairman. Can I just ask--and, unless other members
have additional questions, I will perhaps wrap up with this.
This may be asking you to make an admission against interests,
because, as we have peppered you with recommendations, perhaps
your thought is, ``Please, dear God, stop.''
But as you look at the--you know, the mission of this
committee is just to make Congress work better for the American
people. Are there areas under your purview, under your
jurisdiction, that you think, hey, I am surprised the committee
hasn't pulled on this string, or, hey, this is an area of
opportunity?
We have another year for the existence of this committee
before it hits its end date. I am just curious if there are
areas where you think, hey, this is an area of opportunity to
improve how the institution works and the committee ought to
look at it.
Ms. Szpindor. We have things going in so many different
areas at the request of the committee and other individuals to
improve and modernize, I really think that we are good----
The Chairman. I think I heard you say----
Ms. Szpindor [continuing]. We are good where we are right
now.
The Chairman [continuing] ``Please, dear God, stop,'' but
in a more diplomatic way.
Ms. Szpindor. We still have a lot of the recommendations
that is going to take us--we are doing it, you know, a phase at
a time, and will take us another year or so to complete.
I do want to say one thing. For both you and--Congressmen
Kilmer and Timmons, your staff have been so wonderful to work
with.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Ms. Szpindor. They have collaborated with us. It has been a
joy over the past year, quite frankly, to sit down with them
and actually go over things and get a better understanding from
them and us be able to work collaboratively. It has been a
great experience.
So, if there are other ideas that you may have or that we
can think of, we will certainly pass them on, but we will work
to try and deliver what you are asking us to do.
The Chairman. Terrific.
Ms. Johnson. any comments on that?
Ms. Johnson. I would like to echo what the CAO just stated.
Your staff, both Chair Kilmer and Vice Chair Timmons, are
extremely helpful, extremely reasonable, and very, very
committed. And to the extent that we identify challenges, they
are very receptive. And I have been very, very impressed with
working with them and look forward to continuing that.
I would just say, in terms of the recommendations, mine
that I would recommend that you continue to emphasize are
probably in the area of the CAO, which has to do with
personnel. I think this institution is just second to none. And
to continue that in years and decades going forward, to make
certain that we continue to have high-quality staff by
providing them good salaries and good benefits and good working
conditions.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Thanks very much.
Let me just see if any other members have additional
questions.
Mr. Phillips, your hand is up. I assume that is just a
relic of your prior question.
Mr. Phillips. Yes, it is a relic. I will virtually take it
down.
The Chairman. All right.
Well, with that, I want to thank our witnesses for their
testimony today and thank our committee members for their
participation.
I will echo the words of both of our witnesses with
gratitude to our staff, not just for pulling together another
informative hearing but for their work. I think, insofar as
possible, we are trying to do this work with you, not to you.
So, appreciate your collaboration and the work of our staff in
that regard.
Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days
within which to submit additional written questions for the
witnesses to the chair, which will be forwarded to the
witnesses for their response. I ask our witnesses to please
respond as promptly as you are able.
The Chairman. I also want to just thank the team at C-SPAN
for showing our hearing today. I am sure we are tearing it up
on ratings at 6:00 a.m. Pacific time. We are killing it, you
guys.
I think we are also on Twitch, so I would like to thank all
gamers out there for watching our hearing as well.
Ed Perlmutter, I will explain to you what Twitch is when we
adjourn.
So, with that, everybody, our hearing is adjourned. Thanks,
everybody.
[Whereupon, at 10:02 a.m., the committee was adjourned.]
[all]