[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
INNOVATIVE WORKPLACES, HISTORIC SPACES:
MODERNIZING HOUSE OFFICE BUILDINGS
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE
MODERNIZATION OF CONGRESS
OF THE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MARCH 17, 2022
__________
Serial No. 117-16
__________
Printed for the use of the Select Committee on the Modernization of
Congress
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via http://govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
48-605 WASHINGTON : 2022
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SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE MODERNIZATION OF CONGRESS
DEREK KILMER, Washington, Chair
ZOE LOFGREN, California WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina,
EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri Vice Chair
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado BOB LATTA, Ohio
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota RODNEY DAVIS, Illinois
NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia DAVE JOYCE, Ohio
GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
COMMITTEE STAFF
Yuri Beckelman, Staff Director
Derek Harley, Republican Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
Opening Statements
Page
Chairman Derek Kilmer
Oral Statement............................................. 1
Hon. Rodney Davis, Representative, Thirteenth District of
Illinois
Written Statement.......................................... 3
Vice Chairman William Timmons
Oral Statement............................................. 4
Hon. Dean Phillips, Representative, Third District of Minnesota
Oral Statement............................................. 5
Witnesses
Mr. J. Brett Blanton, Architect of the Capitol
Oral Statement............................................. 6
Written Statement.......................................... 9
Discussion 17
Ms. Katie Irwin on behalf of American Institute of Architects
Oral Statement............................................. 27
Written Statement.......................................... 30
Mr. James Ossman, Vice President, Workplace & Strategic Sourcing,
Etsy
Oral Statement............................................. 36
Written Statement.......................................... 39
Mr. Patrick Wand, Senior Manager, Mall of America
Oral Statement............................................. 44
Written Statement.......................................... 47
Discussion 50
INNOVATIVE WORKPLACES, HISTORIC SPACES: MODERNIZING HOUSE OFFICE
BUILDINGS
THURSDAY, MARCH 17, 2022
House of Representatives,
Select Committee on the
Modernization of Congress,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to call, at 9:00 a.m., in Room
210, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Derek Kilmer [chairman
of the committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Kilmer, Cleaver, Phillips,
Williams, Timmons, and Joyce.
The Chairman. The committee will come to order.
Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a
recess in the committee at any time.
And I recognize myself for 5 minutes for an opening
statement.
On average, Americans spend one-third of their lives
working. That is 90,000 hours over the course of a lifetime.
For workers who work multiple jobs or continue to work well
past the average age of retirement, those figures are
significantly higher.
Time spent on the job is time away from home for most
working Americans. Prior to the pandemic, 82 percent of
employees did some or all of their work at an actual place of
work. COVID, of course, has changed all of that. Telework moved
into the mainstream, and millions of Americans quickly
transformed their living rooms, dining rooms, and even their
bedrooms into their home offices.
Two years later, it appears we are finally turning the
corner, and many American workers are now transitioning back to
the office. That transition, however, isn't as easy as flipping
a switch. Some workers learned that they could do their jobs
just as well, if not better, from home. Others appreciated the
flexibility of telework and time saved not commuting.
And, at the same time, many workers missed the office
environment. Spontaneous opportunities to collaborate,
brainstorm, or even just socialize with colleagues all but
disappeared during the pandemic. For every worker who wants to
continue working from home, there is one who wants to be in the
office and yet another who wants a hybrid schedule.
Employers across the country are now recognizing that, in
order to recruit and retain top talent, their workplaces need
to be reflective and supportive of how their employees want to
work.
The pandemic jump-started a massive workplace makeover that
was already underway, thanks to factors like changing worker
demographics and new technologies. Research shows that high-
quality workplace design improves employee productivity and
efficiency. It also boosts employee job satisfaction, which is
key to staff retention.
Research also shows that smart design doesn't have to cost
a lot and small investments up front can result in big long-
term savings. For example, flexible rather than fixed design
can make it easier for offices to continually adapt and provide
the multi-use workspaces that employees want.
These trends present a real opportunity for Congress to
think about how to design and use space in ways that not only
accommodates Members and staff but the people we serve.
We face a multitude of pain points in how our office
buildings are designed and function. Among other things, there
is little to no drop-in meeting space, other than the overly
noisy cafeterias or Dunkin' Donuts. The room reservation system
could use some major improvements so that we can trust that a
space will actually be available when we book it. Members,
staff, and guests routinely get lost while navigating this
complex, particularly for those of us in the Rayburn building.
I have not found my office at times.
To learn ways to address these problems, we will be joined
today by two panels of witnesses to discuss innovative design
principles and strategies that Congress might consider.
First, we will hear from J. Brett Blanton, the Architect of
the Capitol. Mr. Blanton will discuss his office's Vision 2100
plan that serves as the guiding vision for what the
congressional complex will look like 80 years from now. He will
also discuss current physical space modernization efforts and
provide a brief update on the implementation status of the
committee's previous recommendations that fall under his
jurisdiction.
Our second panel of witnesses will consist of outside
experts that will talk with us about best practices in
architecture, interior design, and way-finding systems that
might be applicable to our campus.
The committee will once again make use of the committee
rules we adopted earlier this year that give us the flexibility
to engage in thoughtful discussion and the civil exchange of
opinion. In accordance with clause 2(j) of House rule XI, we
will allow up to 30 minutes of extended questioning per
witness. And, without objection, time will not be strictly
segregated between the witnesses, which will allow for extended
back-and-forth exchanges between members and the witness.
Vice Chair Timmons and I will manage the time to ensure
that every member has equal opportunity to participate. Any
member who wishes to speak should signal their request to me or
Vice Chair Timmons. Additionally, members who wish to claim
their individual 5 minutes to question each witness pursuant to
clause 2(j)(2) of rule XI will be permitted to do so following
the period of extended questioning.
Okay. That was a lot.
Now let me kick it over to Vice Chair Timmons to share some
opening remarks.
Mr. Timmons. Good morning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
First, I want to thank my friend Dean Phillips and Rodney
Davis for their efforts as it relates to this hearing. I am
passionate about it as well, but they have been spearheading
the conversation, so I just want to say thank you.
In that vein, Congressman Davis is not going to be able to
be here, so I have some remarks that he wanted to share, and I
ask unanimous consent that they be included for the record.
Thank you.
[The statement of Mr. Davis follows:]
Chairman Kilmer, Vice Chairman Timmons, thank you for the
opportunity to share a few words on today's topic of the use of
space throughout the House side of the Capitol Campus.
Although this may seem like an odd topic for Members to
deliberate upon, I would risk the exaggeration that physical
space is a significant challenge that the First Branch faces in
being a strong, healthy institution that is responsive to the
People and effective in its operations.
Our use of space is severely limited right now--beyond the
normal operational challenges, the halls of Congress have been
closed to the American people for over 700 days. Recommendation
number one simply should be re-opening the Capitol Campus. But,
since that is out of the control of the Members sitting here
today, it is important for us to recognize that even when the
doors were open 2 years ago, there were--and remain--serious
space issues that greatly affect our staff's productivity and
our ability to serve our constituents meaningfully.
In addressing these issues, I have to say that our
institution could not be luckier than to have Rep. Dean
Phillips be a partner in these discussions. Thank you to Mr.
Phillips for sharing an interest in this topic and for the work
his team has done in bringing some creative ideas to the table.
There are few topics that couldn't be more bipartisan than
the space we share--regardless of party, we have all struggled
to find space to host constituent meetings, to fit staff desks
into our offices, or simply to get around Rayburn in the early
days. But, to take an even broader approach to this issue: if
Congress is ever going to reassert its oversight of the
executive branch and its other constitutional powers, it needs
more staff. Unfortunately, even if that were to happen, we
would have no place to put them. We can barely house the staff
we currently have. Whether that problem is addressed in the
short term or years down the road, there need to be best
practices and recommendations to shape that conversation.
In addition to the issues posed by a general lack of space,
there is also a need to evaluate critically the space that we
have and to find a balance between preserving the historic
nature of these buildings with making sure Congress has the
tools it needs to be effective. For example, just last week a
member was attempting to make minor modifications to their
office space to better utilize their closet area as a makeshift
studio for media interviews. They were told no by the Architect
just because it would have required some minor work to remove
some wooden shelves. Another classic example is the Cannon
Caucus room, which is one of only a few large venue spaces on
the House side to host large events. This room was offline for
over five years because of continual issues between Congress
and the Architect over balancing historical preservation with
functionality and technology. These two examples are reflective
of some of the current issues on this topic.
Moving forward, I think it would be of great benefit to the
institution to do a comprehensive review of the space we have,
determine how we can use it more efficiently, and think outside
the box to modernize space to better facilitate the work of
members and staff. Specifically, I believe much of the outdoor
space on the Campus is underutilized and could provide a great
benefit in relieving some of the demand for in-door meeting
space.
I'm thankful that ModCom is holding this hearing to start
those conversations today, and thankful to the Architect of the
Capitol, and witnesses on our second panel as well, for their
time. I'm looking forward to the discussion, and with that, I
will yield back.
Mr. Timmons. And when Dave Joyce gets here, it is his----
The Chairman. His birthday.
Mr. Timmons [continuing]. Birthday, so we are going to have
to give him a----
The Chairman. Should we break into song upon his arrival?
Mr. Timmons. I think so. I think--we can do that. Okay.
The Chairman. Witnesses have to participate.
Mr. Timmons. Well, first, Mr. Blanton, thank you so much
for coming. We are going to have a lot of fun today.
I really--I love this complex. I love the Capitol. I cannot
imagine how challenging it is to manage all the variables. If
you think about it, you have Members and their staff needs; you
have ingress/egress out of the Capitol; you have security
concerns; you have visitors. And then you have the physical
structures being on a hill going down and the challenges
associated with how you get between buildings and how you
define what floor is what and how.
And I cannot tell you how many times I have gotten lost in
Rayburn. I try not to go there, but, unfortunately, that is
where my committee is. But, trying to get to the chairman's
office, I have literally never gone the fastest way. I know
that I have never gone the fastest way.
The Chairman. Oof.
Mr. Timmons. And, to be fair, our offices, I think, are the
two furthest points on the entire House campus from one
another. I mean, they literally are.
I.am not going to say that we--I know that we can do
better. I don't know what that means, and I think that is the
purpose of this hearing.
I think the best ways that we can try to improve is going
to be opportunities for Members to interact in a bipartisan
manner. We have made some recommendations on that already, but
I think a lot of it is space. We have had so many challenges,
as a committee, just trying to find places to have fellowship
and to have meetings. And, you know, it is not so much being a
select committee but just a dinner. We have literally struck
out many times trying to find a place to have dinner on the
complex. We have gotten better at it, but it is not easy.
And then you have staff. You know, if staff wants to get
together, really, they can go to ABP--that is their neutral
site--or a number of other spots--Dunkin' Donuts. I would like
to really explore what we can do to create some collaborative
spaces both for Members and for staff.
And, you know, I am really looking forward to your thoughts
and to Dean's thoughts and to everybody else's thoughts on how
we can tackle that.
So I just really appreciate that we are having this hearing
today. I am looking forward to the recommendations we can come
up with.
And, with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
The Chairman. Thank you, Vice Chair Timmons.
Before we hear from our witnesses, I want to just take a
moment and acknowledge the work of two of our committee member,
Mr. Davis and Mr. Phillips, who have taken the lead on working
on this issue for the committee. I would like to thank both of
them and their staffs for working so hard to help us put this
hearing together, for helping us scope the themes that we are
going to cover and finding today's witnesses.
So, before we move on, I would like to give you a chance to
talk about your interest and work on the physical space issues.
So, Mr. Phillips, I would welcome you to share any remarks.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chair, to you; to Vice Chair
Timmons; to you, Mr. Blanton--welcome--to the extraordinary
staff that have brought us on this journey of modernization.
And I also want to salute Patrick Wand, who is going to be
on the second panel, from my district, a little shopping center
in Bloomington, Minnesota, called the Mall of America, who is
going to talk about how to get to Rayburn a little bit faster.
I think this is the most collaborative committee in the
entire Congress, and it is by design, thanks to you, Chair
Kilmer, and you, Vice Chair Timmons. And, as a result, we
believe that space, when employed well, when thoughtfully
designed, can both force collaboration, innovation, and better
outcomes. Conversely, when poorly designed, poorly utilized, it
impedes those very outcomes.
And we see a grand opportunity to preserve and protect
these extraordinary facilities but also bring them into the
21st century so that those who visit us, those who work with
us, and those who serve as Members of Congress will be forced
by design to work more closely together. That is our
inspiration, and that is our aspiration.
So I am thrilled particularly to be part of this hearing.
Rodney Davis, who serves on House Admin, has been a great
partner in this. And we believe that the United States Congress
should reflect the very best in not just American design but
world design as it relates to space and also places for
collaboration.
So, with that, thank you for a few moments just to speak,
Chair Kilmer, and I am excited for this hearing.
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Phillips.
I am honored to welcome four experts who are here to share
with us their ideas and recommendations for how Congress can
improve and modernize its buildings and offices.
Witnesses are reminded that your written statements will be
made part of the record.
Our first witness is J. Brett Blanton. Mr. Blanton has
served as the Architect of the Capitol since 2020. Previously,
he served as the deputy vice president of the Metropolitan
Washington Airports Authority.
Mr. Blanton served as a U.S. Naval officer for more than 20
years in both the U.S. and overseas. He was awarded the Bronze
Star for combat heroism in Baghdad.
He holds a Bachelor of Science degree in aeronautical
engineering from the United States Naval Academy and a Master
of Science degree in ocean engineering from Virginia Tech.
Mr. Blanton, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF J. BRETT BLANTON, ARCHITECT OF THE CAPITOL
Mr. Blanton. Thank you, Chair Kilmer, Vice Chair Timmons,
and members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to
testify today, and I truly appreciate the committee's work. I
am a firm believer that we can achieve great success if we all
work together.
As the 12th Architect of the Capitol, I would like to share
my observations from my first few years while serving Congress
and the Supreme Court.
Above all else, the U.S. Capitol is a symbol of Western
democracy. It is one of the most significant architectural
buildings in the entire world. Building upon this rich history,
our current scope of work is much more than the early
Architects could have ever imagined. Day and night, AOC
employees and staff work behind the scenes to ensure Congress
and the Supreme Court can function. It is a very unique
environment. And I can say we are committed to preserving the
history of this institution as well as adapting it to address
modern functionality.
As discussed in my written testimony, AOC's Vision 2100
provides a North Star or guideposts and principles to adapt the
Capitol complex to prepare for innovations over the next 80
years. It reflects input from Members of Congress,
congressional staff, stakeholders, and anybody who views the
Capitol as a symbol of American democracy.
At the same time, we need to complete a comprehensive
master plan so that we can memorialize how to preserve and
modernize the Capitol complex over the next 20 years.
The last 2 years have brought unprecedented challenges but
enabled AOC to adapt our mission to better serve Congress and
the Supreme Court.
For example, physical security is paramount and is of great
importance to anybody who enters the Capitol complex, and
physical security infrastructure improvements have been a top
priority of the AOC throughout my tenure. In close and
continuous coordination with my counterparts in the Capitol
Police and the House and Senate Sergeants at Arms, we have put
significant effort in adapting our infrastructure to meet ever-
changing security needs.
From the start of the pandemic, AOC took the lead for the
legislative branch to act as a general purchasing agent for
PPE, manage specialized cleaning of spaces identified by our
partners and assessed by the Office of the Attending Physician,
and ensure the facilities and utilities are well-maintained for
ongoing and future congressional needs.
Throughout all these measures and ongoing coordination with
our partners, we are working to make the Capitol complex a safe
environment for employees and visitors.
Yet all employees across America are now looking at how we
may adjust our operations when we welcome back more staff and
visitors. AOC is now doing its own spatialization assessment
for our office space used by AOC employees in the Ford
Building.
Throughout this effort, we are defining the office of the
future. Realizing the success of telework over the past 2 years
and utilizing activity-based planning, I am encouraging the use
of shared desk space, or hoteling; shared parking; smaller
huddle rooms for ad-hoc meetings; and adjustable partitions for
conference rooms to accommodate a variety of uses.
As resources permit, the AOC also plans to launch an
initiative that will utilize technology and ISO standards to
enhance our efficiency and operations. A new enterprise asset
management system will aid in decisionmaking for operating and
maintaining infrastructure assets, such as buildings,
machinery, vehicles, and construction equipment. These efforts
also reflect my ongoing commitment to have consistent standards
and policies and procedures across campus.
For visitors, we have made great strides in terms of
signage for those arriving at different parts of the campus. At
the same time, I continue to look forward to ways to improve
way-finding, and I acknowledge that many of our buildings, by
just the layout of the infrastructure, are challenging to
navigate.
In addition, the agency is committed to improving
accessibility across campus. We have established a new office
within AOC to oversee safety and code compliance. This office,
with support of our partners at the Sergeants at Arms and the
Office of Congressional Workplace Rights, will help ensure the
accessibility recommendations made by this committee are
enacted.
AOC is proactively taking necessary steps to improve
accessibility. For example, we are actively incorporating
accessibility requirements into new projects, conducting
accessibility surveys and inspections of completed projects,
examining existing facilities for ADA compliance, providing ADA
training for AOC staff, and addressing the Office of
Congressional Workplace Rights' reports on the Americans with
Disabilities Act.
In addition, the Cannon Renewal Project incorporates many
accessibility improvements within this historic building. As
discussed in my written testimony, we have addressed very
specific needs centering around access to Members' offices and
committee hearing rooms. We have also expanded the number of
elevators and family-friendly restrooms as part of this effort.
And while all these improvements are a top priority, I am
also committed to maintaining a positive work environment where
people have the skills, training, equipment, and support to
serve Congress on behalf of the American people. On a daily
basis, I am impressed and inspired by the perseverance and
professionalism displayed by my employees.
Yet we can always do better to provide training
opportunities for my staff. That is why I started an initiative
called AOC University. Through this effort, we are expanding
professional development opportunities for all AOC employees.
We have a team working to identify the areas of greatest
training needs as well as the best format for implementation.
Our goal is to provide cost-effective, meaningful opportunities
to both attract and retain skilled employees. In doing so, we
will provide greater incentives and opportunities for our
workforce.
With support of Congress and the incredibly talented and
skillful team, I am proud of what we have accomplished as well
as what the future holds for the Capitol complex. On behalf the
AOC staff, I thank you for your support and look forward to
answering your questions.
[The statement of Mr. Blanton follows:]
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The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Blanton.
I now recognize myself and Vice Chair Timmons to begin a
period of extended questioning of the witness. Any member who
wishes to speak should just signal their request to either
myself or to Vice Chair Timmons.
I have a thousand questions for you, but I am going to try
to keep it to three. And the three I have relate to
recommendations this committee has made previously and just
trying to get a sense of the capacity to actually do some of
these things. So let me hit on a few of these.
I am going to start with, like, where we are right now. The
setup that we have on this committee is a little bit unique. We
have sort of decided that it is hard to have a good
conversation staring at the back of somebody's head, and so our
committee has decided to kind of sit in this sort of format, at
least whenever possible.
One of our recommendations that we made in the last
Congress was to empower committees to experiment with this type
of a layout. That is a little challenging based on the
committee rooms all kind of look like this, and there is not a
lot of, sort of, mobility of the furniture. We have daises.
So I guess the question is, is there a space where--you
know, I am thinking about, like, the Cannon Caucus Room or
something like that--that could be used by committees if they
wanted to do something like this, committees or subcommittees,
if they wanted to have more of a roundtable format? Or could we
make sure that the big rooms in the House Visitor Center could
be accessible for C-SPAN so that committees could meet in that
type of format?
Mr. Blanton. That is a great question. As we all know,
space is a challenge, and even scheduling a space seems to be
more of a challenge.
The Chairman. Yeah.
Mr. Blanton. And it is a challenge for anybody on the
Capitol complex.
I welcome the idea of having--well, a meeting like this is
much more conducive to conversation. And it is more of what you
would see in a boardroom-type meeting, where you have the
ability to interact and dialogue, as opposed to different
elevation of individuals, talking down at some people, talking
across at other people.
The Chairman. Yeah.
Mr. Blanton. So the CVC holds a unique opportunity, on both
the House and the Senate side, where we can configure the rooms
to host meetings similar to this. I will say, this is almost
the identical layout that we use in the CVC rooms for the
Capitol Police Board meetings, which are very productive.
Right now, the challenge, from my understanding, is the
electronics, the backbone. But that can be resolved. It just
needs to be a priority, where we can make sure that the cameras
are there, that the lighting is proper to host public meetings.
You know, it is perfectly fine for private meetings. There are
challenges of connection with, whether it is a--whatever web
server event is being used to broadcast. And those are all
things that could become a priority for Congress that can be
implemented.
I also want to say that one of the challenges--and it is
somewhat consistent across many of the recommendations of this
committee--is, there are numerous stakeholders that are
involved. There isn't one person that you can actually pin the
rose on and say, ``I would like you to do this.'' It involves
coordination between my office, the House Sergeant at Arms,
CAO. And so all of us would need to work together. And we all
have different budgets that would have to pay for part of
these.
And so I would say in any recommendation--I have great
partnerships with them, and I think they would say the same
thing about us. But with any recommendation we have to realize
that we have these various stakeholders who will have a say in
how the outcome would be accomplished.
The Chairman. That is useful. But for what it is worth, the
omnibus that we just passed includes a modernization account
within the leg. branch section. That might provide the
flexibility to do so. You know, given the siloing that you
mentioned, that might be an opportunity.
One of the other recommendations that we made was focused
on raising the cap on the number of full-time staff, just
recognizing that our districts are getting bigger and bigger,
the population that we serve is getting larger and larger, and
the capacity to be responsive to our constituents becomes more
challenging.
There was some independent review of this that also
suggested that there should be an increased number of employees
on the Hill.
Can we accommodate that? You know, do we have available
options for if we are bringing more people in to Member
offices? How would that work?
Mr. Blanton. If Congress and the staff, the Member staff,
are going to operate the way it has prior to COVID, then the
short answer is there is not available space.
However, if you look at it from a hybrid perspective--and I
can say my office is going to that. Obviously I have staff that
have to be on campus. It is hard to do maintenance to
facilities if you are not here. But I have staff that support
that don't necessarily have to be on campus. And so we are
adopting a hybrid approach for my staff. There, there are
opportunities where we can capture space that could be utilized
to bring more people in.
I will also say that----
The Chairman. Is anybody doing that other than your office?
I mean, are there these, sort of, flexible workspaces?
Mr. Blanton. So we did a project at the Thurgood Marshall
Building which is really the prototype for us of the office of
the future, where we renovated a space on their first floor to
allow for hoteling.
We put the lockers in for people to have their privacy
areas, and they would share a desk. We converted conference
rooms in ways that they could have many small meetings or one
large one, and then even sliding partitions so if we needed to
have an all-persons meeting, an all-agency meeting, that you
can have that hosted in the conference room but yet then steal
off into the areas where the partitions are.
The Chairman. Are you looking at doing that in any of these
office buildings?
Mr. Blanton. So that will take the--it is under the
authority of the House Office Building Commission. And what we
hope to do with our office of the future is really show this as
an example of what can be accomplished so that there is a
demand for this in our office buildings.
Because I will say, one of the things that we heard in our
interviews with Vision 2100 is the need for small huddle rooms,
is the need for just a space where I could go on and have a
teleconference with, whether it is a constituent or somebody--
we are working on the same issue; we just don't happen to be in
the same location. But that doesn't exist.
The Chairman. Yeah.
Mr. Blanton. And that is something that we really want to
highlight to say that, you know, this is what can occur, so
that we can get the various partners who have a stake in it all
coming together and saying that, yes, we want this to occur.
The Chairman. I am going to put a pin in my other 998
questions.
So go ahead, please.
Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a bunch of my
own questions, but I am going to start with Congressman Davis's
questions, because they are a little bit more polished.
Thank you for presenting on Vision 2100. It is clear that
the plan has many long-term goals, but I am curious if your
team has broken the plan into smaller timelines--for example, a
5-year, 10-year, and 20-year version?
Mr. Blanton. Yes. Thank you.
So it is a nestle plan. So the Vision 2100 is, as I said,
it is the powerful and lasting statement of what the Capitol
will be over the next 80 years. Then you have our Capitol
Complex Master Plan, which looks at that 80 years over four 20-
year increments. The next portion under that is four 5-year
strategic plans.
And so that is how they all nestle together to work. But
the idea is we are following the North Star from the vision and
we are having definitive things where we have specific
timelines where we can measure our progress and determine, do
we need to change courses.
Mr. Timmons. It would be beneficial as followup for us to
learn about these shorter-term plans and how your team has
built in room for innovation. Is that something your office
could provide?
Mr. Blanton. We would welcome that discussion.
Mr. Timmons. Okay. Great. Thank you.
And what customer feedback tools do you have in place to
ensure that the people who use and visit these buildings are
part of the process?
Mr. Blanton. So we have customer feedback for every single
trouble call that we do, so in every single office, where we
are trying to mirror ourselves very similar to what Amazon does
when they deliver a package. I mean, it starts with a simple
question, are you happy or not happy. And then if you are
happy, we have a couple of questions that follow on about, you
know, they were timely, they were courteous, they got the work
done. If you are not happy, there are some follow-on questions.
We also have that when we have the public in there that
will engage with the Capitol Visitor Center, along their tour
routes.
Mr. Timmons. Do you believe that the House needs another
House office building?
Mr. Blanton. I think that is something that we are clearly
looking at as part of our Capitol Complex Master Plan. There is
a distinct pressure on both the House and the Senate for office
space, and so, obviously, land is a premium on both sides. And
so that is something we are--that is one of the key outcomes of
our master plan.
And I want to state that this is not a master plan that AOC
is doing in private and then going to unveil it and say, here
is the answer. This is an interactive process with Members and
stakeholders and the public, effectively, to determine what is
best for us and for the next 20 years.
Mr. Timmons. Last question. What do you believe is the
House office buildings' greatest challenge when it comes to
space?
Mr. Blanton. Configuration, more than anything else. The
space was designed--I mean, the earliest building was designed
in the, you know, turn of the 19th century and constructed in
the beginning of the 20th century. The concept of even
telephones didn't exist at that time.
And so you think what has progressed in the world, what
technology disrupters have progressed since then. It is really
adapting the space to be able to utilize current technology in
the most efficient way possible.
Mr. Timmons. I am going to let Dean go. I will have my
questions next. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Phillips. My first question is understanding how space
is currently used. Does the AOC maintain an understanding of
exactly who controls each room, hearing room, office, and so
forth? Is there a centralized understanding of that right now?
Mr. Blanton. So we have a good understanding of under whose
authority each room is given, whether it is--I mean, the
overarching authority is the House Office Building Commission.
Mr. Phillips. And just for everybody's education, who
comprises that commission?
Mr. Blanton. So that is the Speaker, the majority leader,
and the majority and minority on CHA.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. And so they maintain a--I guess,
ultimately, the answer is, there is some type of a master----
Mr. Blanton. Yes. They do it in large blocks.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
Mr. Blanton. For example, they will say, ``AOC, you have
this floor on the Ford building,'' and then we are now in
charge of configuring our space on that building.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
Mr. Blanton. And they will give CHA or another support
entity another set of real estate that they would control.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
Mr. Blanton. We have not had discussions about really
looking at the micro level, outside of my spaces, of how can we
reconfigure some of these office spaces in a way that would be
more efficient.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. So different groups administer
different spaces. Same goes with scheduling, I imagine?
Mr. Blanton. Yes.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
Mr. Blanton. Like, I have conference rooms that I can
schedule. The various support entities have the same.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
And just tagging along on Chair Kilmer's question about
committee room design, whose instruction would it take--if the
aspiration was to reconfigure this hearing room, for example,
and do a more collaborative environment, whose instruction
would result in that being done?
Mr. Blanton. So we have a program within the House that we
are doing two committee rooms a year. And that is in close
consultation with CHA about what committee rooms are in the
queue and what we are doing within the committee rooms.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
Mr. Blanton. So we go through and we--for example, some of
these committee rooms, they will change the entire orientation,
where the dais is now 90 degrees at what it was before because
it would----
Mr. Phillips. Interesting.
Mr. Blanton [continuing]. Allow greater operations.
We do engage with the committee and CHA during that process
to determine what would be best for the renovation, best for
the operations of the committee, fully realizing that what was
the past--we have a history--sorry--we have a mission to
preserve, but, also, there is a way that you can preserve while
still modernizing.
Mr. Phillips. So, if I might just interject, so if a
committee chair in a--first of all, which hearing rooms are up
next?
Mr. Blanton. I will have to take that for the record.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
So, if a committee chair implored that we want to get away
from this design and do a more circular table, is that
something--who would stand in the way of that, if a committee
chair said this is how we want to do it, or----
Mr. Blanton. It would be in consultation with my office and
CHA. They would have these discussions.
Mr. Phillips. You would have to collaborate. So there is
not a distinct--okay. Okay.
Mr. Blanton. Each one of these committee rooms have a level
of historic preservation that is required based off the history
of the committee. Some of them are not as historic as other
committee rooms, so that makes it much easier to be able to go
through and say, hey, we can change just about everything.
Mr. Phillips. But is that fair to say, well, that is the
chandeliers and the finishes and the--I mean, less than the
configuration of the----
Mr. Blanton. It is mostly the physical infrastructure, but
you can run into it with some of the historic daises.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
Mr. Blanton. They may have hosted very particular events in
the past.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
My second question is about any engagement of the private
sector--designers, thinkers--for, kind of, ideation as you work
on some of these master plans, the 2100 plan?
Mr. Blanton. Yes. So we don't do anything in AOC in a
bubble. All of our designs--our planning, designs, and
construction, we hire consultants. And we have some of the
greatest consultants when it comes to historic infrastructure
preservation and also modernization that you can get in the
United States.
And I will use Cannon as a great example where we worked
wonders to get that old building to the way that the current
suites are renovated. Now, I will say, though, that those
suites were renovated based off of how operations were at the
time. And if operations are changing, that gives us an
opportunity to re-look at those for other buildings.
Mr. Phillips. And you don't have to name names, but have
you engaged at all with some of America's top employers that
are kind of forward-thinking in terms of their design
facilities?
Mr. Blanton. Yes, we did, as part of Vision 2100. We
engaged with some of the largest and most innovative
corporations that----
Mr. Phillips. Great.
Mr. Blanton. You could probably list them. I can list them
on my hand. But, you know, we engaged with them. And I can
provide you more information about that.
Mr. Phillips. Well, if you can name names, that would be
great, but I respect it if you can't.
Mr. Blanton. I would prefer not to in this setting.
Mr. Phillips. I understand.
Mr. Blanton. Because many of them wanted to keep their
interaction confidential because they----
Mr. Phillips. I understand.
Mr. Blanton. But I will say, we also brought in futurists--
--
Mr. Phillips. Great.
Mr. Blanton [continuing]. And visionaries to really look
at--technology is changing more rapidly and is expected to
change more rapidly in the future than it did just in the last
20 years. And so there are a lot of disrupters, or, as we
called them, change tensions.
And I will just use a very small example with us. The micro
transportation networks that are going on now, the bikes and
scooters. If you would have told me a couple years ago that
somebody would be riding a scooter on the Capitol complex, I
would have said, yeah, a 12-year-old would, not a
businessperson going to work.
Mr. Phillips. Uh-huh.
Mr. Blanton. So that is a change tension, but I wouldn't
necessarily call that one what we would call a fundamental
shift. A fundamental shift is where that tension now turns to
changing the way we do business.
And I am going to talk philosophical now. Because Uber and
Lyft are doing research on flying vehicles, flying taxis. We
have controlled airspace around the Capitol. My guess is, the
first time that leadership wants to have a flying taxi pick
them up, we are going to change that. And so we are going to
have to be able to adapt the Capitol to, where they are going
to land? How are they going to get picked up? How structurally
can we support that?
And so, as part of the Vision and our master plan, we want
to make sure those tensions, as we see them predictive to them
becoming fundamental shifts in the way we do business, that we
are able to adapt to that.
Mr. Phillips. Can I just clarify--before I turn it back,
can I just clarify your answer to my first question about who
ultimately makes decisions on redesigning space? You say it is
a collaboration between the AOC in conjunction with committee--
--
Mr. Blanton. CHA and the committee.
Mr. Phillips. CHA. Okay.
Mr. Blanton. Yes.
So the next up for renovation, just for the record, it is
Oversight, Foreign Affairs, Agriculture, and then CHA.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. So Foreign Affairs, Ag, and CHA.
Mr. Blanton. CHA.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. Thank you.
The Chairman. Go ahead, Mr. Timmons.
Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We have talked a lot about trying to find opportunities for
Members to have fellowship. I imagine kind of a cafe-style
thing somewhere near the Capitol, maybe inside, maybe outside.
Just really bipartisan eating space, both for casual meetings
but also for dinners. How challenging would that be?
And let me give you one more variable. Before the pandemic,
I think there was talk of putting the restaurant next to the
Members Dining Room on OpenTable when we are not here. Like,
their food service is pretty good, but, you know, it is very
challenging when I think one of their rooms had $20,000 in
annual income, and, I mean, it is just hard to run a restaurant
when the flow is so unpredictable.
Is there any talk of anything with the restaurant? And
then, separate from that, the meeting space for Members, cafe-
style and dinners.
Mr. Blanton. So, for the restaurants on the House side,
that is managed by CAO. We do the restaurants on the Senate
side.
I will say, we are both experiencing the same issues when
it comes to the revenue generation that you would expect from a
restaurant. As you know, we go through times where they need to
be open late at night because of business, to August recess
when they may get a tenth of the people that will travel and
utilize the restaurant.
I will say that, on the House side, that Sodexo, who does
the contract, they have done a pretty good job. And I will
compliment them and CAO for the work they have done to keep the
restaurants open to meet the demand.
As far as your question about meeting space, one of the
things that we are looking at in our master plan is the concept
of, is there a need on the Capitol complex for, for lack of a
better word, a conference center? Something that you can have
not necessarily meetings in the buildings anymore--because we
still don't know what the security procedures will be for each
one of the buildings--but is there an outside space where we
can have a conference center of various sizes where you could
have these type of meetings and get the public engaged more
and, frankly, rent them out for catered meals.
Mr. Timmons. So we have, I guess I would call it a pop-up
coffee shop in the bottom of Cannon. Is that something that we
are going to see repeated, or is that just a one-time trial
run? It is in the middle of the hallway, kind of weird. What is
the plan there long term?
Mr. Blanton. I would have to defer to CHA.
Mr. Timmons. Okay.
Mr. Blanton. They manage that for the House.
Mr. Timmons. Okay.
Who would have to make the decision if we wanted to have a
kind of indoor/outdoor cafe-style meetings space for Members to
facilitate, kind of, bipartisanship opportunities? Who makes
that call? Is it the Speaker?
Mr. Blanton. So, as part of the master plan, we would
recommend it, and the decision would be the House Office
Building Commission. Then, obviously, the appropriators are
going to have a large say in how it is funded for execution of
the work.
Mr. Timmons. Is there a master list, survey, of, I will
call it, flex space? So I am down the hall in Cannon, and
Speaker Pelosi's old office has this massive conference table
that I have never seen anybody use. I mean, space like that, I
mean, I would imagine someone is responsible for it. Is it
reservable? How does that stuff work?
Mr. Blanton. So it depends on where the space has been
allocated. And this is one of the challenges we have on,
really, both sides of campus, in the House and the Senate, is
there are several entities that have approval authority. In
general, it is, the House Office Building Commission has whole
visibility of the space that is used by Members and the
committees.
The space that is allocated to various support entities,
like my office, CHA, and the Sergeant at Arms, they have broad
visibility but not the same visibility. Where, for example, if
you needed to use a conference--your staff needed to use a
conference room of mine in the Ford, it would take somebody
knowing it exists, knowing that nobody is in it right now,
knowing who to talk to in my organization to be able to rent
it--or use it.
There isn't currently anything that looks at conference
rooms or flex spaces that has an online, say, reservation
system that would be able to prioritize a meeting of, say, the
chairs versus the vice chairs or another committee meeting. And
I can tell you, in many commercial office spaces, that exists.
You can go on your computer, whether it is through Outlook or
some homegrown system, and say, I want to, you know, utilize a
conference room from 2:00 to 3:00.
Mr. Timmons. I think that is something we can probably look
into further.
The pendulum always swings back and forth on the Hill, and
the Speaker inevitably will change and change back. Does the
Speaker have the vast majority of control over, kind of, the
Capitol and flex space? And is there any possibility of maybe
recommending a standing space that is not party-controlled that
would be available for anyone that wants to get together and
have fellowship in a bipartisan manner? Does that question make
sense?
Mr. Blanton. So I wouldn't say the Speaker has control. I
would say it is the House Office Building Commission has
control. And so that----
Mr. Timmons. Which is the Speaker, the majority leader,
and----
Mr. Blanton. And CHA.
Mr. Timmons. Okay.
Mr. Blanton. But that is the organization that would be
able to make a decision of, space that is utilized by Members
and committees, that this could be utilized for a different
purpose.
Mr. Timmons. Last question. Historically, has this--I mean,
10 years ago, 20 years ago, was there more opportunity for--was
there more space that was available to Members generally, or
has this always been a problem?
Mr. Blanton. From my understanding--I mean, obviously,
offices are growing, support entities are growing. But my
understanding is that for at least over a decade space has been
a challenge on the Capitol complex as a whole.
Mr. Timmons. Thank you.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Mr. Cleaver.
Mr. Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let me first thank Dean Phillips for requesting this kind
of hearing and our two leaders for putting it on.
I.had a chance to spend some time going through the bunker
where Churchill always went during the bombing of London. And I
have to tell you that I think about the January 6th assault on
the Capitol quite a bit, and I just wonder whether or not it
makes sense or whether it is architecturally possible for each
of the three House buildings to have some kind of place that
would bring a higher level of security than our offices.
You know, when the Capitol invasion--whatever word we want
to use--took place, we all were told to shelter in place, and
most of us did it. But even I have a--and after being here for
a while and getting threats and so forth, I created a safe room
in my house for my wife, because I am gone; nobody else is
there. But there is nothing up here that I am aware of, at
least on the House side, that would offer a higher level of
security should something happen again. I hope it never happens
again.
But can you speak to that impossibility--the craziness of
the thought or the possibility that it could be done?
Mr. Blanton. Yes. Thank you for the question.
Immediately following the events of January 6th, we
requested that appropriators transfer money from one of my
accounts to another account in order to do a comprehensive
physical security assessment.
The assessment has been completed, and I would welcome an
opportunity to provide you a brief on it. Unfortunately, the
assessment is classified. I will say, however, your concerns
that you discussed, dealing with safe rooms, are a major
consideration as part of that assessment.
I will also say, there has been work that has been done on
the Capitol complex, specifically in the area of the House
Chamber, where we have hardened the facility. And my hope is
you never notice that the work was done, because it looks the
same as it did before. Specifically, if you look in the
Speaker's Lobby, there have been changes there.
And the idea of doing any physical security improvement, it
is a balance. And it is a balance between the historical
architecture but with the need for physical safety. My artisans
that do that type of work are incredible at blending in the
physical security aspects into the historic architecture.
And, just to reiterate, I welcome a follow-on discussion
with you so that we can discuss the bounds and tenets of the
physical security assessment. And I will say, in our 2023
budget submission is where you will see the first downpayment
of that for the congressional campus.
Mr. Cleaver. Thank you very much.
Let me just ask our two leaders, Mr. Timmons and Mr.
Kilmer, to request some kind of a meeting--I don't know if we
would need to go into a SCIF or whether we could have the
meeting some other places--and receive some kind of a briefing
on this. I think it would be very helpful to us--to me and, I
think, to everyone.
So, if that is possible, I would request it, and understand
that we all have--you know, I am on Homeland Security, so we do
go into the SCIF to see classified information that we
understand is not to be shared outside of that SCIF.
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Cleaver.
And we would love to follow up with you in terms of getting
more information.
Mr. Blanton. Great. I welcome that discussion, and I will
have my staff work with your staff to schedule in a SCIF.
The Chairman. Terrific.
Mr. Cleaver. Thank you very kindly.
The Chairman. Let me just ask if any of the other members
of the committee have any other--go ahead.
Mr. Phillips. Mr. Blanton, it seems a little bit more
complicated to completely redo a committee room or reimagine
space, but, in the interim, who makes decisions about the
furniture choices that are available to Members of Congress in
rooms like this?
Mr. Blanton. CHA does furnishings.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. So that is solely their--so CHA can
say, we are going change how the chairs are here, and that is
done?
Mr. Blanton. I can't talk about their process, but my
assumption----
Mr. Phillips. Uh-huh. But they issue the mandates?
Mr. Blanton.--just knowing her, that it would be where she
would coordinate with whomever.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
As far as you are aware, has there been any discussion
about perhaps expanding the array of furnishings available to
Members and rooms from, kind of, the very heavy, traditional
leather and wood to a little bit more, perhaps, 21st-century?
Mr. Blanton. I can say I personally have not had a
conversation with them about that.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
Mr. Blanton. But that is one of the entities we are looking
at in our office of the future to showcase it.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. So it starts at CHA. Okay.
Thank you.
Mr. Blanton. CAO. Sorry.
Mr. Phillips. Oh, CAO. Okay.
Mr. Blanton. CAO.
Mr. Phillips. Okay.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Terrific.
Thank you for taking the time with us. Appreciate your
testimony and your insights and the work you do.
Mr. Blanton. It is my pleasure. Thank you.
The Chairman. So we are going to take a moment here before
moving to our second panel, if we want to move them from the
on-deck circle into the batter's box.
We are joined by three experts who are here to share their
ideas for modernizing physical space and way-finding on the
House campus.
Witnesses are reminded that your written statements will be
made part of the record.
Our first witness is Katie Irwin. Ms. Irwin is a project
manager and senior associate at Quinn Evans Architects. She is
a member the American Institute of Architects. She earned a
Bachelor of Arts in art history and a Bachelor of Science in
architecture and a Master of Architecture and a certificate in
historic preservation from the University of Maryland.
And there you are. All right. So we will call on you first.
I should have read slower. Sorry.
You are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENTS OF KATIE IRWIN, ON BEHALF OF THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE
OF ARCHITECTS; JAMES OSSMAN, VICE PRESIDENT, WORKPLACE AND
STRATEGIC SOURCING, ETSY; AND PATRICK WAND, SENIOR MANAGER,
MALL OF AMERICA
STATEMENT OF KATIE IRWIN
Ms. Irwin. Good morning, Chairman Kilmer, Vice Chair
Timmons, and members of the Select Committee on the
Modernization of Congress.
My name is Katie Irwin, and I am a licensed architect and
interior designer specializing in both historic preservation
and interior architecture. I am also a member of the American
Institute of Architects.
AIA applauds this bipartisan select committee for including
physical office space within its review of Congress's existing
practices and procedures. Thank you for inviting me to
participate in this important discussion today.
As an architect, I believe deeply in the power of design to
support the essential functions of our society. Design best
practices maximize the available office space and better equip
Members of Congress and their staffs to meet the demanding
requirements of their positions. Modernizing congressional
offices also has staff recruitment and retention value.
I respectfully offer these recommendations for your
consideration, and please see my written testimony for more
detail. Please note that this is not a substitute for design
consultation with an architect or a design professional and
additional consultation with the Architect of the Capitol would
be required.
Historic buildings, modern functionality.
In my practice, I have worked with multiple government
clients in historic buildings. I fully appreciate that
congressional office space must retain the grandeur we
associate with the seat of American democracy. It is critical
to maintain the institution's character-defining features,
faces, and finishes. This is completely feasible while still
allowing for necessary modernizations to meet the needs of the
21st-century office buildings.
I work with clients to identify priority zones where the
historic character and public-facing aspects of the building
are an elevated concern. Those are distinct from other zones
that have already been modified numerous times or are reserved
solely for staff use.
Congressional office suites could present a mix of both
zones. A Member of Congress's office may retain solemn design
and furnishing while still allowing for updates to
congressional staff working spaces. Modern furnishing can
support this goal. Historic writing desks and other traditional
pieces can work alongside sit-to-stand desks, credenzas, and
other technology-incorporative furniture. When approached
thoughtfully, this can be done in a beautiful and tasteful
balance of form, function, and ergonomics.
Noise and daylight.
Congress should also consider methods to reduce noise
contamination and increase access to daylight. According to a
2017 report from the CBRE Group, employee performance can
improve between 10 and 40 percent in offices that address
light, noise, and air quality. Employees also say that they are
happier and less likely to quit.
Currently, many congressional staff working spaces use 6-
foot-tall cubicle partitions, which can block daylight but do
not block sound. Glass partitions would allow for daylight
transfer, increased transparency, and muffled sound. Congress
could also upgrade the harsher light palettes of halogen lights
to warmer lighting or circadian lighting, which replicates a
24-hour cycle.
Sound-masking emits a low-level frequency that muffles
sound transfer, allowing coworkers to engage in separate
conversations with less interference. Additionally, sound-
absorbent panels could be easily applied and removed.
Activity-based planning.
The tactics mentioned above would improve current workplace
functionality, but a comprehensive strategy should include
activity-based planning. This is the design concept that
different areas should serve different meeting functions,
connected together by updated scheduling software.
Within an individual office suite, consider layouts that
include smaller, sound-controlled booths for video calls, a
space for small group meetings, and another area for quiet
work.
Within the Capitol complex, consider converting underused
spaces to support more than one function. For example,
congressional hearing rooms are impressive when in use but
often sit empty. I would not recommend changing the dais where
Members of Congress sit, because that ought to be considered a
priority zone for preservation. However, the furnishing for the
audience could be upgraded to modular design so the rows we see
now can be covered to support meeting space.
Promoting effective, collaborative, and healthy workplaces
on Capitol Hill supports good governance, which benefits us
all. We can be good stewards of these historic spaces while
sensitively integrating modern updates. AIA would welcome the
opportunity to continue to be a resource for you.
Thank you again, and I look forward to your questions.
[The statement of Ms. Irwin follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. And thank you, Ms. Irwin.
Our next witness is Mr. James Ossman. Mr. Ossman is the
vice president of workplace and strategic sourcing at Etsy and
a First Movers Fellow at The Aspen Institute.
He earned his Bachelor of Arts in international relations
and affairs from the George Washington University and earned
his Master of Science in sustainability management from
Columbia University.
Mr. Ossman, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF JAMES OSSMAN
Mr. Ossman. Thank you, Chairman Kilmer and Vice Chairman
Timmons and members of the committee. I am James Ossman, and I
am vice president of workplace and strategic sourcing at Etsy.
I am deeply honored to be here today.
A little about Etsy, if you are not already a user: Etsy is
a specialized online marketplace that lets artisans and
creators in the U.S. sell handmade and unique items to
customers looking for something special from someone, not just
anywhere.
More than 5 million creators are now selling on Etsy,
mainly women and businesses of one. Our sellers live in nearly
every county in the U.S., one in four in rural areas, and
almost all of them work from home.
Etsy provides a true on-ramp to entrepreneurship. Anyone
with 20 cents and a creative idea can start a business and pave
their own path to financial success. In fact, 44 percent of
Etsy sellers leaned on their creative skills and started their
business during the first year of the pandemic. For them, it
was a great renewal, not a resignation.
We are headquartered in Brooklyn, and we are just north of
2,400 employees. Designing our spaces with creativity and
inclusion in mind is part of our DNA. It is probably no wonder
to you that a company about creativity would integrate that
value deeply into our company's culture.
Etsy's offices capture the essence of our marketplace. We
worked with local makers to create furniture and art that is
not just inspiring but that shows off the deep connection we
have with our seller community.
But our workplace philosophy is more than just about
aesthetic creativity. It is also about innovating how and where
we work, keeping sustainability and inclusion at the forefront.
I would like to start by talking about our underlying
design and workspace principles, and then I will shift to the
ways we have adapted during the pandemic.
First, sustainability. At our Brooklyn headquarters, the
majority of the wood in our building was either sustainably
harvested or salvaged. Some of the best lighting at Etsy is
free. With an open floor plan and by placing workspaces near
windows, we are able to be harvest daylight and reduce energy
use. We have also outfitted all of our bathrooms and kitchens
with low-flow water fixtures.
Second, inclusivity. We have created multiple employee
wellness areas, including a quiet green library. We have a
breathing room for mediation and yoga, and we have a bike room,
which encourages carbon-neutral and more healthy and planet-
friendly commuting.
For new mothers and fathers who work at Etsy, we have a
generous parental leave policy of 26 weeks, and when parents
return to work, there are places to do all the things that new
parents need to do, including lactation rooms.
We are also investing resources to go beyond basic ADA
standards to make our spaces as accessible and inclusive as
possible.
Third is a biophilic, or nature-oriented, design. Our open
floor plan and abundant windows provide lots of natural light
and great views of surrounding greenery. We have filled our
rooftop and terraces with shade-tolerant grasses to create a
rich green environment of soft textures, providing a tranquil
and pleasant place to unwind. These are key places employees
can use for private and formal meetings where sound doesn't
easily transfer, as well as to socialize or gather informally.
Those three core philosophies are ironclad. But, of course,
the pandemic changed everything, and, like Congress and all
workplaces, we had to adapt quickly. And we learned a lot in
the process.
Just months before the pandemic, Etsy was 90 percent
office-based. Today, Etsy is 60 percent office-based, and we
are 100 percent hybrid. That means that everything is designed
for remote or in-person participation.
For Etsy, the end of the omicron wave is more than just
about returning to work; it is about the future of work. We
call it ``How and Where We Work.''
To start, we have three work modes that all employees can
choose from. Flex is our default mode in which staff work from
one of our offices at least 4 to 6 days per month; remote is
for staff who continue to work primarily from home; and office-
based is for staff who commit to working in-office at least 4
days a week.
No matter which work mode you are in, we have designed our
workflows and workspaces to be fully hybrid and accessible to
office and remote workers alike. This required some changes to
how we use our spaces.
We have shifted from assigned seating to unassigned
seating, with lockers and other storage so people have a place
to drop their belongings. We know that people are mostly coming
to our offices for connection and collaboration, not to sit at
a desk all day as they might have done before.
We have added colorful felt screens between our desks,
which allow for greater privacy and for calls to be taken from
desks.
We have increased by 300 percent the quantity of informal,
flexible seating and common areas. Employees can work and meet
from anywhere on comfortable furnishings like couches and
coffee tables, as well as more structured seating.
We have increased by 150 percent the number of large,
configurable and reservable meeting spaces to support multiple
types of collaboration or the need for privacy.
We also have dedicated quiet zones where anyone can work
without disruption. And we have invested in norms-setting to
make hybrid meetings a great experience for both in-person and
remote participants.
We are very proud of our workplace approach, from our core
philosophies to our transitions during the pandemic. We moved
quickly but thoughtfully, with the goal of ensuring our offices
enabled productivity, collaboration, and connection.
Finally, you are all welcome to come visit our Brooklyn
headquarters anytime. Thank you again for the opportunity to
address you today, and I welcome any questions you may have.
[The statement of Mr. Ossman follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Ossman.
Our final witness is Patrick Wand. Mr. Wand is the senior
manager of the project management office at the Mall of America
and American Dream. He has overseen the development and
implementation of Mall of America's wayfinding and customer
tracking system, which allows Mall of America to make better
informed marketing and operational business decisions. He
earned his bachelor of arts in psychology from Gustavus
Adolphus College. Did I get that right?
Mr. Wand. Gustavus.
The Chairman. Norwegian background.
Mr. Wand, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF PATRICK WAND
Mr. Wand. Good morning, Chairman Kilmer, Vice Chair
Timmons, and members of the Select Committee on the
Modernization of Congress. My name is Patrick Wand, and I am
the senior manager of the project management office at Mall of
America in Bloomington, Minnesota.
For those who have never visited Mall of America, it is the
Nation's largest shopping, dining and attraction destination.
Currently, we are welcoming roughly 32 million guests per year,
which is 80 percent average of our historic average of 40
million annual visitors. And we have up to 500 tenants, which
includes more than 60 places to dine and two dozen attractions.
With more than 10,000 employees in the busiest transit hub in
Minnesota, Mall of America is a welcoming place, a busy place,
and it can be a challenging place to navigate.
I would like to thank the committee for inviting me to
share insights we have learned at Mall of America over the past
8 years that will be relevant to your work. Myself and my
colleagues have had videoconferencing meetings with your staff
on the topic of wayfinding.
During our first two decades, Mall of America relied on
traditional static directories placed throughout the property,
much like the rest of the industry. Our journey to create a
better wayfinding system began in earnest in 2014 by trying to
understand and identify what our primary challenges were and
which objectives and goals would be must successful. These
challenges and goals are critical to understand early in the
process.
We began by doing the complete analysis, holding focus
groups, identifying guests' needs, and frustrations. This
included viewing wayfinding systems in other industries and in
our competitors. It involved talking to key constituents and
wayfinding experts. It also was accomplished by observing our
guests' use of our outdated wayfinding system, talking to them,
and understanding what they wanted. We listened carefully to
what our guests were saying, and we did this without bias or
preconceived notions.
One of our primary tools when identifying problems and
solutions is to think of a process as an hourglass. Once we
identified the problem that our guests were frustrated with our
wayfinding, we began to look for solutions. Just like an
hourglass with a wide opening at the top, we throw all of our
ideas in for consideration. Nothing is off the table. This
creative approach inevitably leads to a successful result.
Then, we follow those ideas through the hourglass, refining
them along the way. Using this thorough process, we are able to
identify the key building blocks to create a successful
wayfinding solution for our guests, tenants, employees and
partners. Before we could build on that solution, an elemental
foundation was needed: The installation of a comprehensive WiFi
system throughout our 5.6 million square-foot property. Without
this critical infrastructure, we wouldn't be able to implement
the solutions necessary.
With the layers of concrete, hundreds of shops and
restaurants, millions of annual guests, you can imagine it was
a monumental task and a significant investment. Our first step
was to convince our owners to invest in this technology. To do
that, we created a short video that showcased what our future
could look like at Mall of America in a connected world
environment. Our owners are entrepreneurs and visionaries, and
they quickly understood the importance of this investment.
Our extensive WiFi installation project was completed in
July of 2015, and we were ready for the next step. Our first
iteration of learning and adjusting--our first iteration was a
large screen vertical format directory in 2016, and we
completely missed the mark. Customer feedback and data
collected from these new directories was not positive. Rather
than create a solution that worked for our guests, we went with
a shiny object, and it just didn't work.
We pivoted and created what is essentially a large iPad
looking screens that offer privacy to the user, as well as
functionality they were comfortable with. This new system
included blue-dot navigation and the directories understand the
guest orientation in the mall. These new more customer-friendly
wayfinding directories went live in May of 2017.
Since then, we have continued to grow the system to more
than 100 digital directories that are now in place throughout
Mall of America, and we continue to learn and improve this
system. With millions of guests who speak languages other than
English, our directories now feature the nine most frequently
spoken languages in addition to English.
Our digital directories also consider accessibility and
family issues. For those guests using a wheelchair, stroller or
other device, it will adjust the route to the nearest elevator
and show the travel time and distance. Likewise, it can help
identify nearby family restrooms and nursing areas.
While our digital directories are the foundation of our
wayfinding program, over the years we have created an ecosystem
that assists with wayfinding from before a guest ever leaves
their home, navigating the drive to Mall of America, finding
convenient parking and traversing the mall.
This ecosystem includes digital guest service, help to plan
your trip before leaving home, digital wayfinding signage on
the freeway and highway system and the city streets surrounding
the mall, and a technology in our two massive parking ramps
that show parking space availability. Once a guest exits the
car, bus, or light rail train, there is ample, easy-to-
understand digital and static directional signage helping them
navigate mall entrances.
Once inside, digital directories, guest service personnel,
static signage, our app, and social media platforms help create
a seamless experience. All the steps that I shared about our
wayfinding journey help illustrate that it is just not about
which tool is best for the solution. To be successful, it is
important to understand the entire roadmap before beginning the
journey.
One final note of advice from our team, don't bite off more
than you can chew. Take one step at a time, and never forget to
celebrate your wins along the way. Thank so much for the
opportunity to testify before you today. I welcome any
questions you may have.
[The statement of Mr. Wand follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Wand.
I now recognize myself and Vice Chair Timmons to begin a
period of extended questioning of the witnesses. Any member who
wishes to speak should signal their request to either Vice
Chair Timmons or myself.
Let's start with Mr. Phillips.
Mr. Phillips. My first question is for all of you. You have
had a chance to walk around and peruse our environments. You
came to my office yesterday, and I know you visited others.
Respectably, what has been your biggest surprise based on what
you've seen? Positive? Negative?
Yes. Ms. Irwin.
Ms. Irwin. I found that the offices have so many people
doing so many functions all at once. So I think the earlier
conversation about office space is critical. Finding those
other opportunities outside of the buildings is critical.
Having the activity-based planning is critical. But also
needing to balance that with things that Mr. Ossman was talking
about, things that are biophilic and things that bring wellness
and wellbeing.
I didn't see those types of approaches to the workspace.
You know, things are noisy. There is a lack of thermal comfort,
control of that. There aren't--few trees and greenery and
vegetation. I think some of the courtyard will eventually get
that. But those are wonderful places to have those impromptu
meetings, have those collaborative bipartisan discussions in a
space that is open to everyone.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you.
Mr. Ossman?
Mr. Ossman. I think the most surprising thing for me is the
degree to which your space is used for a wide variety of very
different and often contrasting purposes and, at the same time,
how it has been optimized for some more than others. I
specifically noticed more space optimization around what can
interface with constituents or certain types of meetings; much
less so for the day-to-day work of staff.
So, yeah, I agree with you, as well; there is a lot of
opportunity, particularly in the staff portions of your
offices, for modifications and in the public assembly spaces as
well.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you.
Mr. Wand.
Mr. Wand. One thing that struck me was the individual
offices and how you set that up.
The Chairman. Mr. Cleaver, you got unmuted there for a
second.
Go ahead, Mr. Wand.
Mr. Wand. I noticed that your office is very different than
Vice Chair Timmons' office and Chairman Kilmer's office that I
just saw a stark contrast between those----
Mr. Phillips. Whose was the nicest?
Mr. Wand. I felt more at home in your office.
And I will say that the comparison I was making while I was
walking in was the office buildings in the Capitol are the size
of an airport. They are the size of conference centers, and
everybody understands how to traverse and navigate through an
airport because you can't miss the signage. There are these
universal icons that are available.
These long hallways when you are in the tunnel: Are you
going towards Rayburn? Where are you going, right? That was
difficult to understand. And I will say that the directory was
hard to read; font was challenging. And it was difficult to
understand the key on--you know, was this Rayburn? Is this--
what office building do I need to go to find Mr. Phillip's
office?
Mr. Phillips. As I have been listening, wayfinding is
terribly important to all of us, and we all get lost. I suspect
that part of the dynamic right now is also as a security
element. If the January 6th insurgents knew exactly where they
were going, it may have been actually challenging for this
institution. From a security perspective, sometimes you don't
want to make it easy to find the Speaker's Office or this or
that person. We have to balance that here. It is complicated.
But, with that said, based on your experience, Mr. Wand, at
the Mall of America, which I can tell you as someone who has
navigated it, it is remarkably stress free for a building its
size with its plethora of institutions within. It is so easy.
It is almost antithetical to right here.
How do you recommend we begin that process to--I know you
outlined some of it how you did it, but for this institution
specifically, where would we start?
Mr. Wand. Yeah. I absolutely acknowledge the challenges of
security. They are not unlike our own. A building of our size
with one of the largest private police forces in the country,
it was something that was extremely important to us. Modern
technology nowadays allows you to remove areas that you don't
want on a map to make them guest-friendly and to make them easy
to read.
There are maps, as you guys know already, in--by the
elevators. And I would say looking at those from a more modern
look and feel would be really, really, I think, helpful.
There are modern icons, and I would say universal icons for
``you are here.'' I will say it took me about 3 or 4 minutes to
find out where I was because I couldn't find the little red
triangle on the map. So I would say, you know, be creative
around what you do want to see. And then be aware and really
just put those into two buckets: This is not accessible to the
public. We don't want people to see this. I don't think I would
recommend you would have a wayfinding to the Speaker's Office
or to any of your offices. But thinking a little bit about
perpendicular signage in the hallway right here so that I know
that I am in the right direction for the budget office, the
budget room, would be really helpful.
Mr. Phillips. Great. Thank you. I yield back.
The Chairman. It is really tricky. I have to say, you know,
you mentioned the 6th of January. The thing that among many
things that freaked me out that day was I didn't know how to
get out of the building. My second day in the Rayburn building,
and I had no idea like where the exit was. The wayfinding is
the pits, right?
Mr. Timmons.
Mr. Timmons. On the subject of trying to find where you are
going, how to get there, I think technology has a big
component. But I have actually thought a lot about just color
coding quadrants. I know it is kind of weird. But when you are
in Rayburn, one, you don't know where you are. I literally have
to pull my phone out to figure out to find my friends. I am
here. This is where I am relative to everything else. If we
color-coded quadrants to where those red, yellow, blue, green,
and you know that when you are at a corner, you can see two
colors. You are like, all right, well, I know that it is over
there.
So I don't know, I just think there are some basic things
that we could do. The other thing is I talked earlier about
Cannon is here, and then Longworth goes down. Rayburn goes
down. It is incredibly challenging to understand the different
numbers, letters, I mean, it is just wild. And I have been here
for 3 years. I promise you I could not get to his office the
most efficient way possible. I just know that.
So what are your thoughts--technology is definitely a
component to help fix this, but should we just kind of take a
fresh look at--I drew it. I mean, when you think about it, it
is literally on a hill. There are different levels. Oh, and
then ceiling heights are the another one. Here we have 18 to 24
foot ceilings here, and you go to Longworth, there is 10. So it
is just--everything is not connected.
What are your thoughts on that?
Mr. Wand. I think back to basics, right? I think you hit
the nail on the head, whether it is color-coding, whether it is
a numerical system that makes more sense. So, at Mall of
America, we have addresses, right? West 234, clearly is on the
west side, second level, No. 34. That makes sense to a lot of
people.
And I will say that we have a foundational system just like
you have, and those were our anchor stores, right? So everyone
knows where Macy's is, where Nordstrom is, where the entrance
to L.L. Bean and in the northeast court where Sears used to be.
Those are the foundations that we have. We are lucky in the
fact that we are an octagon, right? We are pretty symmetrical.
You can fold us on top of each other. So, if you walk around in
a circle, you will eventually end up where you started.
Not very similar here. But I would say absolutely think
about the basics: red, yellow, green, something like that would
really be helpful for the guests to understand, okay, if I am
in the yellow area and I know I need to go to the green area,
what is the simplest way to get there? And then, along the way,
just simple signage, right, that says ``yellow this way'' that
is right in your face. It would be really, really simple
without technology.
Ms. Irwin. Essentially, it is design. It is the psychology
of design and what you perceive. And if you have a hierarchy
and a level of things that indicate where you should go, you
understand that the cafeteria in big letters is around the
corner. And it is colored green because it is nutritious food
that is available and is promoted, and everybody should go in
that direction. And that is your anchor store. You know, so
there is a lot that just goes into subconscious psychology in
providing this hierarchy of spaces where people know where to
go based on the signage and the font size and what it means.
Mr. Timmons. Sure. Thank you.
One last question, but before I do, Mr. Ossman, I just want
to say thank you to Etsy for the work that you were doing
practicing what you preach in regards to Ukraine. I just want
to point out that you all canceled the current balance of the
debts. You buy [inaudible] a million dollars. You are matching
charitable contributions through relief efforts to employees,
$750--up to $750 in deactivated Russian-based sellers. You
know, it is easy to forget that we are so safe in this country,
and there are terrible challenges in other countries. I just
appreciate your effort.
My last question is about outdoor space. We talked about,
you know, I have an indoor--I have a courtyard view here, and I
do think there is a huge opportunity. I think, at the end of
this renovation, there is going to be incredible green space
and trees and all that stuff. And then you go over to Rayburn.
They do have a courtyard as well. I do think we could probably
do a little more there.
And then there are outdoor spaces as well, both south of
the House Office Buildings and then around the Capitol. I mean,
I think we all agree we need to do more to incorporate that. In
D.C. 8 months out of the year, it is probably possible to go
outside.
What are some areas that you have seen, maybe at Mall of
America or in other places in the country or world, that you
think we should try to emulate that is doing this really well.
Ms. Irwin. Well, certainly, there are rooftop, you know,
green roofs that are able for people to go to. The Library of
Congress buildings has one, I believe. Thurgood Marshall has an
enclosed atrium with a large bamboo groove that has seating.
That is a few steps away from here. Clearly, it has been done.
It is on the campus. You have those examples.
Voce. Renovated hotel space?
Ms. Irwin. I have not seen the hoteling space that Mr.
Blanton described.
Mr. Wand. At Mall of America, we have accommodating, I
would say, lighting, just from natural lighting with the
skylights, which is really, really helpful. I will say that I
wished there was more outdoor seating. That is very complex in
our building. There is only really one location, which is the
JW Marriott's restaurant that has outdoor seating. And I know
there was comments earlier--I remember one about a restaurant.
So just thinking about that and outdoor seating kind of creates
that team atmosphere for smaller meetings or larger meetings.
We, as our team went out there and sat and had a dinner
together, and that is really important.
Voice. [Inaudible]
Mr. Wand. Yeah. I was about to say, I think you are being a
little liberal there.
Mr. Ossman. I can add that Etsy incorporates outdoor space
through many of our offices. Our Brooklyn headquarters has
three outdoor spaces, a rooftop and two terraces. They are very
much enjoyed by employees. People will hop out there for a
quick private phone call. There are team celebrations on the
rooftop. It is also a place to display our values. We have a
large solar array that helps power the building. There are
local plants and greenery. They are highly enjoyed places and
are valuable from an employee-recruiting-and-retention
standpoint.
The Chairman. I think it is really interesting stuff. And I
think it is worth--part of the reason we are looking at this
is, is the mission of this committee is to make Congress work
better for the American people. So, as we think about these
space issues, a lot of it is discussion around like, how do you
have a more functional work space where people can work
efficiently and effectively and work on behalf of the American
people? But that is why we are talking about this stuff.
So you mentioned just the differences you saw in the three
offices that you visited. You know, what is unique about this
place is there is some shared space, the committee rooms and
whatnot, but by and large, we are like 435 independent
contractors. And what our expertise is in is not this, right?
So I think about when you are a new Member coming in, you get,
you know, Longworth 1420, and they say, so what kind of
furniture do you want, and how do you want it laid out? And you
have got folks who maybe have a background in policy or
political science making space decisions that, frankly, they
don't know anything about, right? So I guess I share that
dynamic to ask your advice, right?
How--are there--because we have shared space, which we have
talked some about, but then we have these individual offices.
Are there best practices this type of dynamic where you have
got folks coming into a workplace without the expertise to
determine what a good layout is or what proper--when you talked
about things that might suppress noise and might enable a more
collaborative workplace.
So, if you were us, if you were our committee, would you
make a recommendation saying the Architect of the Capitol or
somebody ought to come up with three or four or five--sort of,
here are some options that you may want to think about, right,
that you may want to optimize around for a modern, efficient
workplace? Does that question make sense?
Ms. Irwin. Yes. I missed the last little bit of that, but I
just wanted to say that, you know, pressing upon the AOC to say
let's give the new Members coming in a tour of some good
workspace environments that allow different modes of working.
There are ways--from the three offices I saw the other day, you
know, two of them had folks there, you know, in every single
seat. And one of them, they said that they were in-person all
the time. And then your office, there is telework, and it is
very flexible. So each individual office, like you said, has a
culture and a way of work, but also there is a need to educate
folks that there are other ways to do things, and education is
a big part of this.
So I think just walking through a couple offices that have
changed, or the offices that Mr. Blanton spoke about in
Thurgood Marshall, saying: Here is the setup. This is how we do
our work in our business day-to-day. Does this work for you,
and how the Member likes to do their business? Are they just on
videoconference all the time, or do they really want that
person-to-person, in-person experience sitting at a table
across from each other, but they need a quiet space to do it? I
think just education from the get-go is what is needed when you
come in.
The Chairman. Anyone else want to swing at that pinch?
Mr. Ossman. Yeah. One of the things that struck me as I was
kind of understanding the dynamic going from office to office
and also your individual teams' kind of cultures and styles was
there is almost a need for templates for them, right? Like
there are a few different designs that could optimize for
different ways of working. And for folks who are not experts in
this who could come in and just take a template and roll it out
in their office, I think it could be very beneficial.
The other thing that comes to mind as I was doing a very
informal, nonscientific survey questioning some of the staff
members on their feelings about cubicles. And I was shocked;
almost everyone actually liked their cubicles. I don't think we
could recruit a single employee in tech if we had cubicles.
They are just simply not the standard.
And so what that said to me is people don't know what they
don't know either. And it would be helpful to give people
exposure to other alternatives. I think open-floor seating and
no partitions between desks, you know, no cubicles could be
great options for optimizing your space, letting in more light,
creating a more balanced environment, but they might not be
desired until people have been exposed to that.
The Chairman. I think that is really important. It is
really hard to, you know, to make change when you don't know
what that looks like, right? One of the things I--one of my
main takeaways in the work of this committee is, if you want
things to work differently, do things differently, right?
Mr. Wand. Yeah. And I would just add, I use the analogy of
Lego's; if there were a lot of different ways you could maybe
put together office space. I will say, from our experience at
Mall of America, we were in the basement. We called it the
dungeon. There was no natural light, obviously. We were in very
small cubicles. Now, we are in work pods, and I think we very
carefully designed that the only people that have offices are
those that are executives. If you are a director, if you are a
senior manager, you work in a pod. It allows for collaboration.
And there was some consternation there, some concerns about
that, and I wouldn't go back. It hammers to the point of you
don't know what you don't know until you experience it. But
also having the flexibility so that you each design your
offices for the type of work and the type of folks you hire to
help you do your jobs.
The Chairman. The other thing I just want to ask about is
there is--there are a number of constraints that we deal with
in this environment, right? Security being one; historic
preservation being another; even thinking about reconfiguring
hearing rooms. I didn't realize that there is, you know,
historic preservation around the protection of the dais, like,
okay. Cost, right, because we have got to be efficient with the
taxpayers' resources. And there is just not a lot of flexible
space, right?
There is 435 independent contractors, plus the folks who
represent the territories. And then, you know, it is not like
we have got empty offices sitting around, right? So you heard
that from the Architect of the Capitol when we are like, well,
could we have some hoteling space or could there be bipartisan
workspace? I think the reaction is, sure, but where, right?
So do you have advice to us on how to think about, because
we want to make recommendations to improve the functionality of
this place, how to do that in a way that is conscious of some
of those constraints?
Ms. Irwin. Certainly. I think big picture-wise, it is
having a holistic view of what can improve the physical space,
as well as the education of the occupants about what is
historic or what spaces are in use or are underused or can be
used. And then to have things that are set in that are policies
that are, we promote fitness so that you can go to the O'Neill
Building; it is encouraged to get the exercise, use the stairs,
other ways to get around the House Office Buildings.
So I think a big picture view--and there are ways to
measure this. There are standards in place that other agencies
and corporations are adopting to measure these things. You can
do a checklist to make sure your physical space is doing X, Y,
and Z, and that you are educating your occupants, and that you
have things in place that you are supporting new mothers,
providing them refrigeration, sinks, a comfortable chair, and a
quiet place. So there are things that can be instilled across
the board.
But for cost, you know, that is words. That is things
written up. That is not expensive movement of partition walls
or anything like that. The small scale, the physical space,
sit-to-stand desks improve ergonomics, improve the comfort of
somebody who is in their seat from 7:30 in the morning until
8:30 at night, having that flexibility, providing the telework
options.
So different ways of seating. You know, other furniture
solutions, having the phone booth pods where you can have a
comfortable, quiet place to go. Some of the telephone booths,
the historic ones, are being used for that purpose. Old broom
closets are being transferred and converted into telephone
private rooms where you can take a cell phone call. So there
are, you know, modest things like that.
You know, improving the acoustics on the hard plaster walls
that aren't going to move. Well, you can hang acoustical panels
from walls and ceilings in a way that is reversible so it won't
damage features of the space. Providing a sound masking system,
you know, that is not going to harm any space. So I think there
are ways to do a lot of things, incremental moves.
Even in the cafeteria, it is so noisy and busy in there.
But there are furniture solutions that can create a little
acoustical shell, if you will, for a couple of people to sit
down, that has acoustical padding around it and provides some
level of privacy. It is not soundproof, but it is something
that provides a place for people to go and they have that
privacy that they need.
Mr. Ossman. On the cost-effective piece, I would just
emphasize that sustainable design and operational practices can
be a cost benefit. Things like LED light fixtures, low-flow
water fixtures, reuse of materials. During the pandemic, Etsy
retrofitted all of its workstations from one standard height to
sit-to-stand, and we used the actual same desktop surfaces to
do that. So there are ways to make improvements while reusing
or better using what you have.
I agree with many of the recommendations that you
mentioned, as well we are a big fan of phone booths. It does
allow for quick, private calls. They don't need to be bookable
so that resolves the issue around the booking system of meeting
rooms that you mentioned.
But also look more into use of common spaces, hallways, or
elevator lobby areas for informal gatherings. Having flexible
furniture, like couches and sofas, where people can just hop
in, again, without reserving and have a quick meeting. Etsy's a
big fan of walking meetings. Many people will get outside the
building, go for a walk around the neighborhood. Here, you
don't even need to leave the complex. You could stay
underground the whole time. But it can be great for
relationship building and informal discussions, not to mention
also healthy for people.
The Chairman. I have been here 10 years. I don't think I
have had a meeting any place other than Cannon, Longworth, or
Rayburn. You mentioned the O'Neill building. I have heard of
that, but I don't think I have been in it. I don't know that I
have been in the Marshall Building. So maybe we need to think
bigger about the space that we have.
The other thing, we have space that is chronically
underutilized. You mentioned in your testimony committee
hearing rooms when there is not a hearing going on. There are
other spaces where--one of the problems that we have is the
reservation system is broken. So what happens is people kind of
hoard the space, you know, and--or they book space whether or
not they need it because they want to make sure they have it.
They do need it, right?
So you all work in environments where the challenges we are
facing can't be unique. So I am going to airdrop you onto our
committee. What ought we recommend to fix some of that, the
issue around underutilized space? Like I was a management
consultant 20 years ago. We had a pretty easy way of booking
empty office spaces and conference rooms, and things like that.
And I came here, and I am like it has got to be easier than
this, right?
Mr. Wand. I will say that we use Outlook, and we use
reservations for rooms. Those rooms are--there are rules behind
it. So, for example, you can't schedule something for longer
than 6 months of reoccurring for that exact reason: Oh, I might
need it in a year.
There are rules around approvals, right? So there are
certain rooms that I can book, but then an approval goes to,
say, the HR director for their conference room.
So I think, you know, being that--I asked some of the
questions yesterday, that you guys are using Outlook. Some of
that might be really easy to implement with some thought,
right, and some process for how that should work. That is built
in, right, for probably not a lot of cost versus a homegrown
system. It might work a lit bit better and might be a little
more user friendly as well. You have to weigh those advantages.
Ms. Irwin. And I think there are comments about how this is
like an airport; it is like a convention center. If you go to
conference at a hotel, there are monitors up that tell you what
the hearings are gonna--could be, what the hearings are, what
is on the schedule so they know these big rooms, that they are
not in use the last Friday of every month or something, or
there is a gap of, you know, 3 hours, and somebody can come in
and use it for an impromptu meeting.
Mr. Wand. And I will add there, we played around with some
technology where the room will know if, say, you are booked for
an hour but you leave after 15 minutes, it will become
available for another person to book, say, for the next 45
minutes. So some of those things are out there. They are not
terribly expensive. It is a battery-operated Bluetooth,
essentially. Motion detectors tied into applications that can
understand there are people in the room.
Mr. Ossman. We use a combination of things for meeting
rooms. Like I said, there are some meeting rooms, phone booths
in particular, that are unbookable. The nature of a phone call
is you don't know when it is going to happen; you need to hop
in somewhere. And then, beyond that, the vast majority of our
rooms are booked through Google Calendar. Everyone has equal
access. We indicate what types of technology are available in
each room so people know what they are booking and book a room
that serves a purpose they need.
And, lastly, our largest most technologically advanced and
also reconfigurable rooms are centrally booked. So we have a
single gatekeeper that allows people to prioritize. I would say
it is really important everyone has the same access to whatever
systems that you are using.
Mr. Phillips. I often ask if people can wave their magic
wand and now we have Mr. Wand in front of us.
I have long thought that we could create an app, this whole
complex, that would accommodate a lot of these things we are
talking about. You can make reservations, wayfinding.
I was just looking at the Mall of America app. I don't have
it. But is there a portion of that app that allows you to
wayfind, that you could type in a restaurant or a store and it
will actually help you navigate?
Mr. Wand. Yeah. So, going back to 2015, part of the WiFi
project was implementing our first version of our mobile app.
We had Bluetooth beacons installed along with the wireless
access points that allowed for blue dot. It was really
accurate, but the management of that was--there was a lot of
overhead. In a building of our size that is constantly
changing, it was really hard to keep up-to-date of paths and
accuracy of the blue dot.
Now, essentially what we did was, when we put our
directories in, we realized that is what really people need. We
can't try and recreate and be Google, right? We don't have the
funds to be Google Maps or Apple Maps, but what we can do is,
you know, look at common best practices for mapping. And so, in
our app, it is: Where are you now, and where would you like to
go?
Simple, goal-oriented, and it draws a line. You can
actually text on our directories. You can actually text to your
phone the route, so you obviously have to leave the directory
to go to the Apple Store. So, if the Apple Store is on the
other side of the mall, and you need to go another directory,
certainly there are opportunities. But a lot of people will
text that route to their phone.
Applications today are very similar to the mobile websites
that are out there. So I think I would challenge the thought
process around, do I need a mobile app, or do I just need a
more friendly mobile website? But certainly it comes down to,
you know, what the Sergeant at Arms will allow in terms of maps
that are publicly available. But there are a lot of things that
we do.
We have an internal employee app that allows you to chat
individually with your supervisor. We have apps that allow you
to see deals for all the tenants, post job opportunities. It
has really changed the way we function as an office, especially
during COVID. And really the goal there, again, not
complicated: the right information at the right time.
Mr. Phillips. Well, thank you all very much. I am grateful,
and very inspirational. Hopefully when you come back in 50, 60
years, you will see some changes.
The Chairman. I really like the idea of also just, you
know, once the building openings back up for visitors broadly,
I think it would be cool if you are walking down the hall, if
there was something on the outside of the committee rooms
saying there is a committee meeting happening on this subject
right now. This is the people's house, right? There is no
screen when you come in that says: If you are here to visit
your Member of Congress, when you are done, these are the
hearings that are happening if you want to go watch, right? I
don't know. I feel like my family would enjoy doing that.
Mr. Phillips. We could do a field trip to Bloomington. I
would be happy to host--and to Brooklyn.
Mr. Wand. Absolutely. You are all more than welcome to come
to Mall of America. We will give you guys the tour.
The Chairman. I really appreciated you bringing your
expertise to our committee and again want to acknowledge Mr.
Phillips and Mr. Davis for their leadership on this issue.
Before we wrap, I also just want to note some sad news. Our
committee has done--has really made a point of trying to get
our committee together and have meals on occasion and try to do
some of the things that need to happen more in this place.
Earlier this year, we had dinner with two former Members and
broke bread and listened to them talk about ways that we might
be able to fix some of what is broken in this place. And one of
the former Members who met with us was Vic Fazio, who
unfortunately passed away earlier this week. And I just want to
offer condolences to his family. He was definitely a steward of
this institution. He cared a lot about making Congress work
better. I want to offer condolences to his family. He will be
missed.
Again, I want to thank our witnesses for their testimony. I
also want to thank our committee members for their
participation. We had a number of members who popped in and off
of the screen. So, hopefully, they got to enjoy your expertise.
I also just want to thank our committee staff. It is hard
to put together hearings like this, and they do a terrific job.
So I just want to acknowledge their great work.
And now the official stuff. Without objection, all members
will have 5 legislative days within which to submit additional
written questions for the witnesses to the chair, which will be
forwarded to the witnesses for their response. I ask our
witnesses to please respond as promptly as you are able.
Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days
within which to submit extraneous materials to the chair for
inclusion in our record.
With that, this hearing adjourned. Thanks, everybody.
[Whereupon, at 10:42 a.m., the committee was adjourned.
[all]