    [House Hearing, 117 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

       RECRUITING, EMPOWERING AND RETAINING A DIVERSE CONGRESSIONAL STAFF

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

               SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE MODERNIZATION OF CONGRESS

                                     of the

                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                  MAY 13, 2021

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 117-05

                                   __________

     Printed for the use of the Committee on the Modernization of Congress

     [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                        Available via http://govinfo.gov

                              ______

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
     48-589                WASHINGTON : 2022

                SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE MODERNIZATION OF CONGRESS

                        DEREK KILMER, Washington, Chair

    ZOE LOFGREN, California              WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina,
    EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri              Vice Chair
    ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado              BOB LATTA, Ohio
    DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota             RODNEY DAVIS, Illinois
    NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia             DAVE JOYCE, Ohio
                                         GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
                                         BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas

                                 COMMITTEE STAFF

                         Yuri Beckleman, Staff Director
                    Derek Harley, Republican Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page
    Chairman Derek Kilmer
        Oral Statement...............................................     1
    Vice Chairman William Timmons
        Oral Statement...............................................     2

                                   WITNESSES

    Ms. Kemba Hendrix, Director of the House Office of Diversity and
        Inclusion
        Oral Statement...............................................     4
        Written Statement............................................     6
    Ms. Keenan Austin Reed, Former Chief of Staff and Co-Founder &
        Chair of the Black Women's Congressional Alliance
        Oral Statement...............................................    11
        Written Statement............................................    13
    Mr. Gregg Orton, Former Chief of Staff
    Oral Statement...................................................    17
        Written Statement............................................    20
    Ms. Maria Meier, Former Director of the Senate Democratic
        Diversity Initiative
        Oral Statement...............................................    24
        Written Statement............................................    26
    Discussion.......................................................    30

      RECRUITING, EMPOWERING, AND RETAINING A DIVERSE CONGRESSIONAL STAFF

                                  ----------

                             THURSDAY, MAY 13, 2021

                      House of Representatives,
                                Select Committee on the
                                     Modernization of Congress,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The committee met, pursuant to call, at 9:03 a.m., via
    Zoom, Hon. Derek Kilmer [chairman of the committee] presiding.
        Present: Representatives Kilmer, Cleaver, Perlmutter,
    Phillips, Williams of Georgia, Timmons, Rodney Davis of
    Illinois, Latta, Reschenthaler, and Van Duyne.
        The Chairman. With that, the committee will come to order.
        Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a
    recess of the committee at any time.
        And I now recognize myself for 5 minutes to give an opening
    statement.
        So, in preparing for this hearing today, I actually looked
    back at the work this committee did on staff diversity in the
    116th Congress, and I was struck by a few things. You know, our
    work began with a member meeting devoted to first talking about
    diversity more broadly and then as it applied to Congress, and
    we talked and, more importantly, listened to each other in an
    effort to find common ground and figure out how the committee
    should structure a hearing on the topic.
        And, through that discussion and through many since, it is
    clear that our experience as individuals and as members of
    larger groups and communities profoundly shape how we process
    daily life and experience daily life. Our experiences shape how
    we see ourselves in relation to others and how we react to and
    with the world around us. And recognizing that and respecting
    that fundamental reality I think builds empathy.
        Last year, just as we began a series of virtual discussions
    on staff capacity and diversity, the Nation was seeing in
    communities all over this country demonstrations over the
    murder of George Floyd, and the work we were doing felt
    inconsequential compared to what was happening right outside
    our doors. But it was, and I think continues to be, a lesson in
    how our own histories and experiences shape the way we
    understand and react to the events in our lives.
        That same lesson applies to the events that unfolded at the
    Capitol on the 6th of January. Members and staff are still
    processing what they experienced that day and will continue to
    do so for some time to come. But to assume that everyone who
    works in the Capitol reacted to January 6 the same way would be
    to ignore the lived experiences of every person who was here
    that day.
        For more than a year now, we have been living through a
    global pandemic, something very few of us have ever
    experienced, and we are now beginning the slow process of
    returning to normal. But, for so many of our fellow Americans,
    normal now looks very different. Thousands of people have lost
    loved ones and have suffered tremendous financial loss. The
    pandemic has been a shared experience but with vastly different
    outcomes, and for that reason, recovering from the pandemic
    will mean radically different things to different people based
    on what they have gone through.
        So all of this is to say that this committee began its work
    on diversity with the understanding that our lived experiences
    affect the way we see and interact with the world around us,
    and this past year has thrown a number of intense experiences
    our way, and we have all processed them in accordance with what
    we know.
        So our job as Representatives is to give voice to the
    people we serve, and that responsibility is bestowed upon us
    from the moment we are sworn into office. The beauty and the
    challenge of upholding that responsibility lies in the fact
    that we speak for so many. Our constituents are diverse in
    their backgrounds, in their experiences and views, and it is
    our job to listen.
        It is also the job of our staff to listen, and they are
    often the first people our constituents encounter when they
    reach out to the Federal Government for help. Staff also help
    Members make sense of complicated policy questions, and given
    the diversity of people and policies that staff encounter
    daily, the experiences and histories they bring to the job
    matter a lot.
        Our constituents are better served by staff who reflect the
    diversity in our own districts and in our own country, and
    Members are better served by staff who bring a diversity of
    perspectives to the policymaking process. We do our jobs better
    when we are willing to acknowledge that we don't know
    everything and when we are willing to listen and learn from
    people whose experiences are different from our own.
        Building a more diverse congressional staff is a process,
    and today we are joined by a panel of experts who are going to
    help us understand why investing in this process is so
    important. I am looking forward to hearing about the work they
    have done and their recommendations for how Congress can
    recruit and retain a workforce that looks like America.
        And, with that, I would now like to invite Vice Chair
    Timmons to share some opening remarks as well.
        Mr. Timmons. Thanks, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our
    witnesses for being here today for this important hearing.
        Since the establishment of this committee, we have made
    staff retention and diversity a top priority. When we talk
    about modernizing Congress, we don't just mean updating the
    technology in the House but investing in and developing a
    talented and diverse workforce that accurately reflects the
    communities we represent.
        In the 116th Congress, we made a recommendation to make
    permanent the Office of Diversity and Inclusion, and I am
    pleased that this recommendation came to fruition and is now a
    permanent office. However, other than the creation of a human
    resources hub, which we recommended and envisioned in part as a
    way to help diversity recruitment, the Office of Diversity and
    Inclusion was really the only recommendation made last Congress
    that dealt directly with diversity in Congress.
        There is a lot of diversity just on this committee and the
    constituencies we represent. Just as our constituents have
    unique backgrounds and different experiences, those who come to
    work on the Hill are no different.
        In both this Congress and last Congress, we have heard from
    many witnesses on ways Congress can improve its hiring
    practices and promote diversity and inclusion broadly, whether
    it be for people of color, disadvantaged communities, people
    with disabilities, different socioeconomic backgrounds, and
    varied geographic locations.
        I am looking forward to hearing from our expert witnesses
    today on ways we can continue to recruit and retain a diverse
    and talented workforce that better reflects the diversity of
    the American people.
        Again, thank you for your leadership, Mr. Chairman. This is
    a top priority for this Congress, and we need to get it right,
    so I just appreciate you working so hard on this.
        And, with that, I will yield back.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair.
        And today we are joined by four witnesses. Witnesses are
    reminded that your oral testimony will be limited to 5 minutes.
        And, without objection, your written statements will be
    made part of the record.
        Our first witness is Kemba Hendrix. Ms. Hendrix serves as
    the Director of the Office of Diversity and Inclusion, where
    she works to cultivate an inclusive environment in the House
    with a workforce that reflects the diversity of the country
    they serve.
        Prior to her appointment as the inaugural director of the
    House ODI, Ms. Hendrix served as the Director of the House
    Democratic Diversity Initiative, where she focused on
    increasing House Democratic workforce diversity and expanding
    opportunities for diverse candidates at all House staff levels.
        She has also worked within several organizations prior to
    joining the ODI, including the Equal Employment Opportunity
    Commission, the U.S. Department of State as a legal advisor to
    the chief diversity officer and Office of Civil Rights, and the
    U.S. Office of Personnel Management.
        Ms. Hendrix, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give
    an oral presentation of your testimony.
        Oops. Sorry, we still have you on mute. Sorry.
        Ms. Hendrix. Thank you.
        The Chairman. There we got it.

     STATEMENTS OF KEMBA HENDRIX, DIRECTOR OF THE HOUSE OFFICE OF
     DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION; KEENAN AUSTIN REED, FORMER CHIEF OF
    STAFF AND CO-FOUNDER & CHAIR OF THE BLACK WOMEN'S CONGRESSIONAL
     ALLIANCE, ON BEHALF OF HERSELF; GREGG ORTON, FORMER CHIEF OF
     STAFF, ON BEHALF OF HIMSELF; AND MARIA MEIER, FORMER DIRECTOR
             OF THE SENATE DEMOCRATIC DIVERSITY INITIATIVE

                       STATEMENT OF KEMBA HENDRIX

        Ms. Hendrix. Good morning, Chairman Kilmer, Ranking Member
    Timmons, and the members of the select committee. My name is
    Kemba Hendrix, and I am the Director of the Office of Diversity
    and Inclusion.
        Thank you for the opportunity to speak today on our shared
    perspective of diversity, recruitment, retention of the House
    workforce. It is my honor and privilege to speak on behalf of
    my team and with their support.
        OD&I's dynamic diverse bipartisan team is one that I feel
    privileged to work alongside every day. Over the past year, the
    Office of Diversity and Inclusion has worked tirelessly to
    serve the House. That was a possibility because bipartisan
    House leadership and this committee were committed to and
    believed in the power of diversity and teamwork.
        In our inaugural year, we have executed a comprehensive
    staffing plan, delivered an operations plan, and a diversity
    plan to House leadership, developed strategies for engaging
    with House employment offices, colleges, universities, and
    other stakeholders.
        Furthermore, the office has completed a novel barrier
    analysis of the House workforce. Some of the outcomes of this
    data collection are shared in the information we submitted for
    the record. We have engaged with over a thousand job seekers,
    and many of the many exceptionally qualified and diverse
    individual job seekers have become our colleagues.
        Of the many accomplishments that we have worked together
    collaboratively to exceed, in all of this that our staff has
    done, some of this is what points to the benefits of
    recruiting, maintaining, and supporting a diverse staff,
    something that we all view as a critical goal.
        While I intend to discuss our analysis and recommendations
    today, I would also like to briefly discuss how COVID-19 has
    impacted our staff and our funding.
        While our staff has continued to work, members of my team,
    like many of the others of the staff community, have lost
    family members and friends, acted as caregivers to our
    families, managed virtual school for children, experienced
    medical incidents that required either extensive testing or
    hospitalization. One of my staffers is studying for the bar
    while working full time. All of this on top of a global
    pandemic, historic civil unrest, and the January 6th attack on
    our place of employment. What we experienced as a team is not
    unique, but it does represent a microcosm of what has happened
    here at the House.
        The events of the last year have tested many communities,
    including the community of the House. Communities that are
    disproportionately impacted are exactly those communities that
    are home to many of the diverse staffers on the Hill, including
    but not limited, to Black, indigenous, Asian, Hispanic,
    LGBTQIA, and people with disabilities. We, and I say ``we''
    because as a diverse House staff, we are the people living this
    experience.
        Our staffers who utilize the Office of Diversity and
    Inclusion as a resource frequently recommend programming and
    services they would like to see from us. Recently those
    recommendations have included many things, but what I will
    speak to are recommendation that have included OD&I House-led
    staff support groups, executive coaching for senior staff, a
    core curriculum that would include cultural competence for
    senior staffers, facilitated discussions on race, bias,
    experiencing microaggressions in the workplace, professional
    communication, team building, and many other things. And while
    we would like to provide all of those services and more to the
    House community, we know that other resources or offices may be
    more appropriate, and the recommendations we submitted
    sometimes do reflect that.
        Furthermore, OD&I's diversity, equity, and inclusion
    barrier analysis offers insights, support, and relevant data
    about what staffers believe are substantive hurdles for diverse
    staffers. The results of reporting identifies what staffers
    believe from various demographic groups, and they seem to
    believe that they are often overlooked in consideration for
    House leadership roles and promotions. Many employees feel that
    the only way they can get promotion is either to leave their
    current office or to leave the Hill entirely, which makes
    creating a pipeline of diverse staffers, a sustainable pipeline
    for leaders of color and those from nontraditional backgrounds
    very difficult.
        The barrier analysis provides anecdotal insights into their
    beliefs and feelings of the participants about the unique
    hurdles that they face, many of which were exacerbated by the
    events of January 6. Additionally, what staffers communicated
    seems to be a lack of awareness about available resources. And
    compounding that issue for staffers who are aware of existing
    resources is that some expressed a feeling that those resources
    may not meet their unique needs. It should be noted that these
    are observations that may not actually be the views of all
    House staffers.
        After stating these challenges, I want to circle back to
    what I stated at the beginning of my testimony and speak about
    my exceptional and resilient staff. I believe our staff remains
    resilient because of our diversity and our concerted efforts at
    inclusion and belonging within our staff.
        I am grateful for this opportunity to connect with the
    select committee and testify on our shared and important work
    on modernizing and strengthening the House community, your
    thoughtful and sustained attention to these critical issues and
    making a meaningful and positive difference and making a better
    House community and specifically a better American community.
        I thank you for your leadership and the opportunity to
    contribute to your work.
        [The statement of Ms. Hendrix follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Hendrix. Thank you for your
    testimony and for your leadership of ODI.
        Our second witness is Keenan Austin Reed, vice president of
    the Alpine Group and a veteran of Capitol Hill. She served as
    chief of staff to Congressman Donald McEachin and led his work
    as the whip of the Congressional Black Caucus.
        In 2018, Ms. Austin Reed cofounded the Black Women's
    Congressional Alliance, a membership organization of more than
    300 bipartisan and bicameral Black women Hill staffers. She has
    led dozens of professional development briefings, events, and
    webinars to inform staffers about new career opportunities,
    provided a platform to elevate their profiles to the broader
    Capitol Hill community, and pushed growth in diverse hiring in
    the United States House and Senate.
        Previously she served as chief of staff to D.C. Council
    Member David Grosso and as deputy chief of staff and senior
    advisor to Congresswoman Frederica Wilson.
        Ms. Austin Reed, you are now recognized for 5minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF KEENAN AUSTIN REED

        Ms. Austin Reed. Thank you. Good morning, Chairman Kilmer
    and Vice Chair Timmons, members of the committee, staff, and
    interns.
        I am grateful for this committee for creating a space to
    advocate for staff, and it is a pleasure to be with you. As the
    chair stated, I am Keenan Austin Reed. I serve as vice
    president at Alpine. I recently ended my decade-long career as
    a Hill staffer this past January, and previously I served as
    chief to Donald McEachin, deputy chief to Congresswoman
    Frederica Wilson. I am also a wife to a current chief of staff,
    which beyond my affinity to see Congress as an institution
    continue to evolve, keeps me closely tied to its success.
        In 2018, I co-founded and currently chair the Black Women's
    Congressional Alliance, an organization representing over 300
    Black women staffers, with a goal to increase the number of
    Black women serving in senior staff positions in Congress and
    providing them professional and personal support, particularly
    as they seek more senior roles.
        Retaining staff goes beyond what staff are paid. It is
    about the community and experience, and we choose this work as
    more than a job. It is a calling. Improving the dynamics of the
    workplace and hiring significantly boosts job satisfaction and
    fulfillment.
        While there are many longstanding and underlying issues in
    empowering and supporting diverse staff, the current climate is
    particularly challenging. For all that love this institution,
    January 6th was and very much still is unnerving. Staff of
    color, who felt especially targeted by hate symbols displayed
    by the mob, continue to feel angry, unsafe, and unprotected.
    And despite this emotional toll, these staffers continue to
    serve, allowing the work of the Congress to go largely
    uninterrupted.
        Pay disparities, underrepresentation at the highest levels,
    structural inequality, and cultural bias leaves staff of color
    feeling disenfranchised. The insurrection only compounded this.
        I commend the leaders of staff-led organizations who have
    supported their peers during this time and challenge us all to
    improve. It is with this in mind that I make the following
    recommendations.
        First, professionalize hiring to attract a wider and more
    diverse talent pool. I strongly encourage the Congress to
    invest in the expansion of our House Diversity Office to
    include recruitment staff. Currently, hiring managers are
    tapping into their networks of a select few people of color to
    produce a diverse talent pool. It is a strong start, and it
    demonstrates intent beyond hiring the traditional network of
    candidates, but the burden of hiring people of color should not
    exclusively rest on people of color to produce candidates from
    their networks. I, along with many others, have volunteered and
    supplied resumes and recommended candidates. But this work is
    hindered by those who do it often have other full-time jobs,
    and our reach does not go far or wide enough.
        Next, we must provide cultural competency for these
    offices. For offices that are making their very first diverse
    hire or those that have hired diverse candidates in more junior
    roles but never see those staffers transition to the leadership
    of the office, we need to provide greater support for the
    competency of that office. It is not enough to hire a diverse
    candidate. We must make sure that the environment is ready to
    integrate them into the work of the office. We should also
    recognize that an environment that has had a homogenous staff
    for the majority of its history will need to make some cultural
    adjustments.
        Lastly, establish a diversity, equity, and inclusion point
    person in each office and give a compensation adjustment to
    support that work. The success of DEI principles demands that
    the ideology be accepted fully in how the office does that
    work. It must have member-level engagement and buy-in and be
    continuously prioritized.
        I commend the work of Senator Tammy Duckworth, who is
    already doing this.
        I recommend that that staffer become the internal support
    for that office and the member in chief for those issues, which
    could include leading or initiating culturally sensitive
    conversations, ensuring diverse networks are engaged in the
    hiring of interns and staff, supporting staff by identifying
    professional growth and mentorship opportunities, and expanding
    stakeholder engagement to support legislative goals. This
    staffer should receive a pay increase for doing this work.
        It is critical that we recognize that diversity in
    congressional offices is a prerequisite to fulfilling the
    tenets of our democracy.
        Thank you for your consideration of my testimony, and I
    welcome questions and followup by the committee.
        [The statement of Ms. Austin Reed follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Austin Reed, and you stuck the
    landing of 5 minutes. Well done.
        Our next witness is Gregg Orton. Mr. Orton is the national
    director of the National Council of Asian Pacific Americans,
    where he leads the coalition in developing policy and
    communication strategy and advancing a joint agenda to address
    the needs of the Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific
    Islander communities.
        Prior to joining the council, Mr. Orton spent 9 years
    working on Capitol Hill for Representative Al Green. He has
    served as a dedicated advocate for the AAPI community, as well
    as a mentor for many AAPI staffers in Congress.
        Mr. Orton, you are now recognized for 5minutes.

                        STATEMENT OF GREGG ORTON

        Mr. Orton. Thank you.
        Good morning, Chair Kilmer, Vice Chair Timmons, members of
    the select committee. As was mentioned, my name is Gregg Orton,
    and while I currently serve as the national director of the
    National Council of Asian Pacific Americans, which is the
    leading coalition of 37 of the most prominent Asian American,
    Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander civil rights
    organizations in the country, I am here today to share my
    personal views as it relates to the current state of staff
    diversity in Congress. And I certainly appreciate the
    opportunity to be back amongst friends and certainly back
    amongst at least the virtual halls of Congress.
        Before I begin, I would like to note that my very presence
    here today is an example of what is possible when a
    congressional office is meaningfully and authentically
    committed to diversity, equity, and inclusion. I simply
    wouldn't be here to share my experiences but for Congressman Al
    Green and his former chief of staff, Jackie Ellis. You know,
    she in her own right was a trailblazer for diversity, and for
    them to both take a chance on a then young Korean American
    adoptee, given the chance to make mistakes, learn, and
    eventually build a skill set that served not only the
    constituents of the Ninth Congressional District but now the
    national AAPI community, that is a remarkable and humbling
    thing.
        My written testimony contains a number of similar
    recommendations based on my observation as it relates to pay
    and staffing structure, but I really want to focus my remarks
    today on the experiences of Asian American, Native Hawaiian,
    and Pacific Islander staffers that I have had the privilege and
    opportunity to interact with.
        To start with, many of the staffers that I still talk to
    today began their careers when I was still on the Hill, and so
    it is with great pride that I have watched many of them put in
    the time to put themselves in a position to be eligible, at
    least on paper, with the number of years of experience for
    coveted senior roles. But in reality, many of them that I talk
    to now express a sense of real frustration and are approaching
    burnout or reached it already.
        And so, coupled with the fact that we know that missed
    perceptions about our community persist, my belief is that
    there remains a real need for unconscious bias training amongst
    all congressional offices and hiring managers. Harmful
    stereotypes about monolithic community success or the fact that
    maybe Asian Americans are too quiet and timid to be successful
    in leading a congressional team are harmful, and they are
    incorrect, and it is long past time that Congress tried to
    address those things.
        As it relates to staff organizations, I will simply say
    that I think Congress should fund them. They create vital
    environments for staffers to thrive. I know that I wouldn't
    have made it for as long as I did without the support of
    colleagues and friends and also a place to build meaningful
    friendships.
        Simply because community spaces clearly will create
    themselves on the Hill doesn't mean that institutionally
    Congress shouldn't support them.
        I personally believe that Congress is a remarkable place to
    work, and the truth is that Asian-American staffers on a day-
    to-day basis face racial microaggressions that can make the
    experience quite isolating and frustrating. Some of these
    elicit amusement; others elicit much more painful responses.
    One example would be it is sort of a rite of passage, I think,
    for all staffers of color to eventually be mistaken for one
    another or a Member of Congress. I will be honest, today I
    would be flattered to be mistaken for some of the Asian-
    American chiefs that are still on the Hill, and I am glad to
    consider them friends. I am also proud to see that they have
    climbed the ranks.
        The truth is, though, that there is one personal experience
    that I will always carry, and this goes back to 2010 when there
    were protesters on the Hill concerned about the Affordable Care
    Act. For those members who were present when, they will
    remember that the halls were flooded with protestors, and I
    remember riding an elevator in Longworth, standing next to a
    few of those protesters, and regarding one and perceiving a
    look of a mixture of disdain and disbelief and being told that
    they couldn't believe they let foreigners work in Congress.
        Fast forward to today and January 6th. I can only imagine
    how Asian American, Pacific Islander staffers must feel after
    navigating a year of the COVID-19 pandemic. You know, staff
    were taught to take verbal punishment and slights with grace
    and service of constituents, but the anti-Asian rhetoric that
    has been politicized, it has got to carry weight for many of
    them. And if not for themselves, then for fear for their
    parents, their grandparents, their elders, and many of those
    who have become targets for this violence.
        In conclusion, I will say I truly believe the staffers of
    color are resilient as they are brilliant. To choose to work in
    a place surrounded by everyday reminders that you don't belong
    and then turn those reminders into motivation to work harder is
    precisely why Congress should be spending more resources and
    time in promoting greater diversity. So many of us have watched
    our families struggle to navigate government, watch government
    harm us or ignore us completely, and it is far past time that
    we address some of those inequities.
        It is a privilege to work in Congress, but it shouldn't be
    exclusive to those who are already privileged, and I hope that
    the select committee will continue this important work and
    encourage their colleagues to lean in as well because I think
    this is one solution that is really going to require the
    entirety of the institution to get it right.
        So thank you again for the opportunity to be here today,
    and I look forward to answering questions.
        [The statement of Mr. Orton follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Orton.
        And our final witness is Maria Meier. Ms. Meier is a former
    senior leadership staffer and served as director of the
    Congressional Hispanic Caucus, as well as the Senate Democratic
    Diversity Initiative.
        In 2017, she founded her own practice where she helps
    clients build inclusive environments. Her newest venture, We
    Are The People, is a community of support and training for
    underrepresented voices in public service.
        Over the past decade, Ms. Meier has counseled over 1,500
    individuals nationally and abroad on career and personal
    development and has spoken to hundreds of others on issues
    related to diversity, U.S. politics, and public service.
        Ms. Meier, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                        STATEMENT OF MARIA MEIER

        Ms. Meier. Good morning Chair Kilmer, Vice Chair Timmons,
    and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to
    participate in today's hearing along with this panel of
    esteemed leaders who, as I am, are committed to promoting
    diversity and building inclusion in Congress and throughout the
    public sector. And I do want to associate myself with all of
    the comments previously given, that they were brilliant, and I
    appreciate their willingness to share their experiences.
        The perspectives I offer today come from having spent a
    dozen years working in both the House and Senate in positions
    ranging from answering phones to serving as a senior staffer in
    leadership offices. But it was during my last job on the Hill,
    where I led the Senate Democratic Diversity Initiative, that I
    had the opportunity to look at how to connect the multitude of
    dots that are necessary to create a truly diverse, inclusive,
    and well-trained talent force on the Hill.
        Drawing from my experiences, I recently launched a social
    enterprise called We Are The People. We work to strengthen our
    democracy by supporting those who are within our institutions
    shaping and impacting policy. We do this through developing
    relevant and common training for staff, creating sustainable
    inclusion plans for the organization, and promoting careers in
    public service, particularly for diverse professionals.
        There is a saying that institutions are only as strong as
    the people who run them, and Congress is no exception. The
    makeup of current and future workforces is not an ancillary
    issue but integral to how well you, the Members, are able to do
    your jobs.
        Last year, I coauthored a guide for Congress and their
    hiring managers on how to have a more diverse staff. We sought
    to offer actionable and relevant advice that spoke to the very
    unique work environment that is the Hill. As a first step, our
    guiding encouraged managers to be intentional with regards to
    developing a diversity plan, by having a clear understanding as
    to what the office even means by diversity.
        I recognize that there is a lot of discussion about this
    issue and about the various types that diversity can exist, be
    it gender, age, military service, or socioeconomic background,
    among many other points of identity, and I wholeheartedly
    support any office's deliberate and intentional outreach to job
    candidates that reflect underrepresented voices and
    perspectives. However, I do want to be clear and stress that
    these efforts cannot cloud the issues that the largest racial
    and ethnic groups in this country are still underrepresented at
    the staff level in Congress, particularly in senior level
    positions. This lack of representation in turn has real
    implications on how Congress develops meaningful legislation
    and policies.
        Looking at the recommendations that your committee has put
    forward, I believe that there are some areas in particular that
    can be expanded to help ensure that staff and Members have the
    tools necessary to successfully create a diverse and inclusive
    working environment. Change begins at the top, and for this
    reason, I support your proposal for new Member orientation to
    be more comprehensive and nonpartisan. Add to this, I recommend
    that the training also address human resources issues. You, the
    Members, are in reality chief executive officers within your
    office. While you are not likely to manage staff day to day,
    you are the ones who set the tone and the culture for your
    staff who serve you.
        Additionally, I would recommend that this training needs to
    include instructions on how offices can address issues of
    diversity, equity, and inclusion, not as a partisan issue but
    as an approach that helps members understand the role of
    diversity in creating better policy.
        Secondly, the committee recommends boosting congressional
    capacity by providing more comprehensive training options for
    staff, including creating certifications and formal onboarding
    processes. Here too I support this recommendation and propose
    the creation of a certification program for all chiefs of
    staff, staff directors, and anyone who manages staff. This
    program can be completed over the course of a Congress and
    include a set of core competencies that will benefit all
    functions to the office. I believe also that learning how to
    write a diversity plan and how to manage diverse staff is a
    critical skill set for all managers and should be part of this
    instruction.
        Finally, expanding training budgets and training
    opportunities is critical, not just to recruitment but to staff
    retention. A recent survey in the tech sector found that 94
    percent of employees would stay in their current role longer if
    they felt that the organization invested in their professional
    development. I believe if we surveyed staff on the Hill, the
    numbers would be equally high. Providing professional
    development opportunities is not an investment in the
    individual employee alone; it is an investment in the level of
    service that you are delivering to your constituents.
        Again, thank you for this opportunity to voice my support
    for your committee's efforts to look for ways Congress can
    expand the capacity of its staff as a means of developing the
    future diverse and inclusive workforce that serve the American
    people. And I welcome your questions.
        [The statement of Ms. Meier follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Meier.
        And thanks to all of our witnesses for your terrific
    testimony.
        We will now give our committee members an opportunity to
    ask those questions, and I will start by recognizing myself for
    5 minutes.
        Let me start, Ms. Hendrix, with you. You know, we currently
    rely a lot on outside groups to do our diversity analysis, and
    even your recent reporting is just a snapshot in time. Give me
    your sense, would it be feasible to collect and track more data
    on the diversity of our staffers as we onboard them? Is that
    something that would be helpful? Give us some guidance there.
        Ms. Hendrix. Yes, I do believe it is feasible to collect
    that data at onboarding, use as an example, the Federal
    Government uses a standard form at the point of onboarding to
    collect some of that information at that point. In that way, we
    could--the information that we do as a survey could be
    collected and completed and updated at regular intervals.
    Rather than doing it as a snapshot at one point in time during
    the year, it could be updated regularly. For example, we plan
    to do a compensation study that will be a snapshot of a point
    in time at one point in the year. I believe we will collect
    that information in July of this year. Rather than collecting
    it at that one point of that workforce in that singular month
    of that year, we could update it throughout that year because
    we plan to move--rather than doing a static report, we plan to
    do a digital manipulation of that. We could update--if we do
    that, we could do it over time and collect it and update that
    regularly. Rather than doing it as a one snapshot of the time,
    it could be updated regularly.
        The Chairman. I appreciate that.
        Ms. Meier, you talked about the importance of leadership at
    the top, and I appreciated that. I want to get your sense of
    how Members who are often not involved in their office's day-
    to-day operations can do better, can encourage and to help
    ensure that their teams are enacting their values in the office
    when it comes to diversity. And specifically if you have
    guidance for us as to recommendations this committee could make
    to try to enhance that, I am very open to your suggestions.
        Ms. Meier. Yes. Thank you for the question.
        And I do believe it is important, and it is absolutely
    understandable that Members have schedules that they don't need
    one more thing to do, but that they do recognize their role in
    setting this tone and the culture of the office. And it is
    important for the chiefs of staff to know that they are in sync
    with their Members as well.
        That is why I recommend integrate diversity/human resources
    training not just for new Members but also every time you have
    your retreats at the caucus level, periodic speakers when you
    have your weekly caucus meetings. Again, it is introducing the
    concept of how you identify this, and they can provide very
    specific, easy actionable things to do, like sitting down with
    the chief of staff and writing a simple statement as to what
    your office values are, your mission statement that includes
    how you reach out to the diverse constituencies that you
    represent. Again, this is not to add extra to-do's and tasks,
    but it is to include you and implement and chiefs of staff and
    all the staff can manifest your values as to what you want to
    see and how you want to serve your constituents.
        The Chairman. I think that is really helpful. And I think
    it is important for us not to look at this as extra work. This
    is the work, right? Having an environment where people want to
    work and where we have a diverse workforce, that is the work.
        So let me ask, Mr. Orton, do you feel that the AAPI
    community is sometimes overlooked in the diversity discussion?
    And, if so, you know, what do you think about a recommendation
    that congressionally funded reports actually include data
    disaggregation with regards to the AAPI community?
        Mr. Orton. I appreciate the question, and I think it is
    spot on, not just within the context of staff diversity but
    more broadly speaking in the public sector.
        We found that many times Asian Americans and Pacific
    Islanders are just not a part of people's calculus when they
    are talking about communities of color, and that is something
    that has been a bit baffling. I think it is driven by, again,
    misperceptions about sort of this widespread belief that Asian
    Americans are successful and, you know, don't require the same
    kind of consideration as other communities of color, and I
    think that is a mistake because the Asian American, Pacific
    Islander community is widely diverse, has a huge range of
    different lived experiences, different immigration experiences,
    and that has to be captured if we are really going to lead into
    this diversity, equity, and inclusion conversation.
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        Let me recognize Vice Chair Timmons.
        Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        And I want to thank all of the witnesses for taking their
    time. This is very important, and we just appreciate all of
    your input.
        I want to start with objective. So, in my mind, our
    objective should be that every Member's office--well, let's
    start with Congress. Congress should be representative of the
    country, and then within Congress, every Member's office should
    be representative of the people they represent. So it should be
    diverse based off of race, gender, geography, socioeconomic
    background, lifestyle, and it should be proportional based off
    of the population they represent.
        Can we start there? Do we all--I want to open that up to
    comment. Do we have any--is that accurate? Are we on the same
    page there? Is that the objective?
        Anyone?
        Ms. Austin Reed. Congressman, thank you for the question.
        I do think it is a strong objective to have a workforce
    that looks like America. I wouldn't limit it to exact
    proportionality, is not currently, and I think we have got so
    far to go before we set that as a standard. I think we need to
    develop--as the chairman said, it is not side work; it is the
    work. And we have got to inject diversity into the DNA of our
    office. And I think if we start to look at if, you know, a
    State's population is a majority White and Black staff cannot
    or staff of color can't work in that office because we are
    focused on the proportionality, I think that limits the work
    product of the office.
        I think your goals of diversifying the Congress and the
    staff of Congress are spot on. I would just approach it a bit
    differently.
        Mr. Timmons. But would we benchmark success as making it
    representative? I mean, is the definition--is our success--my
    own thing is that it should be proportional. So, if there is a
    decision about--well, not decision. An office should----
        Ms. Hendrix. May I?
        Mr. Timmons. Go ahead.
        Ms. Hendrix. As a minimum benchmark, that would be great.
    But if that were our minimum benchmark and that would be
    success, we are not there yet based on the data that we
    collected for the House, if we wanted to set that as a baseline
    benchmark and to say that we could reach that and that be a
    success as a benchmark, based on the data that we have
    collected from our 2019 compensation and diversity study that
    we did for the House. And I want to state that as a caveat that
    we only collected information for about 50 percent of our
    workforce, and that was a survey, and it wasn't done with
    having 100 percent of our workforce represented. And so I state
    that as a caveat.
        Having said that, though, with those caveats included, if
    we use that as a representative workforce and data scientists
    state having a 50-percent representation does give you a good
    sampling size, we are not there.
        Mr. Timmons. I couldn't agree more, we are definitely not
    there. And that is why we are having this hearing and that is
    what our goal is. I just want to make sure that we begin with
    the objectives.
        So, next, internships. We have talked a lot about
    internships as an onboarding access to the Hill. Can we all
    agree that that is a place that we should focus in addition to
    recruitment for staff? But should we put an oversized effort on
    to internships as a way to give additional access?
        Ms. Hendrix. I would think that what we are seeing now is
    that we see a--data reflects that we do not see in the senior
    roles a representation of leadership. And what data supports is
    that when you don't have a pipeline of people in the senior
    roles, it is really difficult to create a pipeline of people
    continuing to flow in the senior roles. If you don't have a
    bench, if you don't have people that are to raise people into
    those senior roles, starting with interns, it is very hard to
    continually push people up because it really does start with
    the leadership. So thinking of, yes, internships but also
    fellowships and subject-matter expertise. It takes years and
    years to just start with the internships. It should be, yes,
    internships and professional development and fellowships. So,
    yes, internships, but you should think that and other things
    that will increase the pipeline at the top and the middle.
        So it should be both really. It can't just start at the
    bottom thinking that an internship pipeline is going to
    increase the level of senior leaders who are going to be able
    to affect policy decisions and affect being able to grow and
    develop future leaders because what we are seeing right now is
    the current leadership isn't there to develop those future
    leaders. It is really important to create people who can grow
    the leaders right now, and we don't have as many of those right
    now. And a lot of that leadership, and speaking currently, we
    have lost, we have lost four cycles of leadership because of
    the pandemic and the situation we are in right now. So, even
    the people we have in place, we have to think of----
        Mr. Timmons. I ran out of time. I ran out of time. I am
    sorry. I totally agree with you it is an all-of-the-above
    approach, and I will do whatever I can to help.
        And, Mr. Chairman, thank you. I will yield back.
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        Next, up we have Ms. Williams, and then in the on-deck
    circle, we have Mr. Latta.
        Ms. Williams. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        And, Vice Chair Timmons, I agree with you. This is an all--
    it is not an either/or approach. We have to make sure that we
    are focusing on both. So thank you for those questions because
    we know that to build a diverse workforce on Capitol Hill, we
    need to be sure that our career opportunities are visible to
    talented people, and that includes people without DC
    connections. Some industries base their hiring around
    recruiting and even interviewing college students on campuses
    across the country. These industries bring some of the best and
    brightest into their fold before they even graduate. And,
    Congress, we need to think about ways to broader cast our net
    for recruitment.
        Ms. Hendrix, your testimony referenced the Office of
    Diversity and Inclusion's partnership with colleges and
    universities. How can the House's resource offices leverage
    these partnerships to equip educational institutions with the
    information and resources they need to help their diverse
    graduates consider a career in Congress?
        Ms. Hendrix. We lay the groundwork, but we are one office.
    We are one office. So we are laying groundwork now. We are
    planting seeds. I think it is important to think of how we grow
    that outward. It can't just be us.
        So there are programs that are adjacent to ours, but we
    really want to make sure that we are developing long-term
    internship and fellowship programs that bring people here, that
    provide both exposure and long-term experiences for people to
    transition into long-term employment and how we are going to
    create a long-term pipeline that is sustainable for increasing
    our pipeline for long-term growth in employment.
        Ms. Williams. Thank you, Ms. Hendrix.
        Ms. Reed, in your testimony, you mentioned the need for
    Congress to recruit from a variety of schools, including HCBUs
    and community colleges. In what ways could congressional hiring
    be more transparent and accessible to ensure that diverse early
    career Hill applicants without DC connections feel confident
    navigating the process and putting forth the competitive
    candidacy?
        Ms. Austin Reed. Thank you so much, Congresswoman, for that
    question.
        I think we have to treat hiring like we do in other
    industries and handle it professionally. We have to hire
    recruiters whose job it is to go to college campuses and inform
    them about Hill opportunities. I certainly, when I was in
    college and high school, knew nothing about working in
    Congress. It was happenstance that I got here. But I think if
    we have staff who are focused on--their sole job is to go and
    recruit talent from every corner of this country, I think that
    we can get a broader and more representative workforce, and
    that includes minority-serving institutions, HCBUs, community
    colleges.
        Ms. Williams. And, Ms. Reed, maybe this is me as a new
    Member trying to figure this all out, but each office hires
    their own staff. So I am curious as to what that would look
    like for recruitment into individual offices?
        Ms. Austin Reed. Yes, that is a great question.
        I think that the office that Kemba leads is a great
    conduit. Right now what is happening is when you put out a
    listing, we send it--we take your listing, and we try to
    amplify it. The Black Women's Congressional Alliance has a
    Google listserv, and we try to ping all of our networks. Kemba
    is in touch with candidates that she has done interviews with
    and trained them to interview for your office. I think if the
    recruiters were in her office and finding that talent, then we
    could suggest to you when you are hiring, give you a slate of
    qualified, prepared candidates who are diverse to enter in your
    office. So it takes the burden off of your chief, your LDL,
    your hiring managers whose primary goal is to serve their
    constituents and put some of the burden on Congress to help
    give you a diverse staff that you wouldn't otherwise get who
    are beyond the beltway.
        Ms. Williams. Thank you so much.
        And, Ms. Meier, if we both draw our pipeline from diverse
    educational institutions across the country to Congress, how
    would that help ensure that congressional staff workforce
    represents the diversity of our districts?
        Ms. Meier. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman.
        It is going to build the pipeline, and I believe, as Ms.
    Reed stated, many of us fell into these positions because we
    didn't know that they existed, that working for Congress was a
    thing. So awareness is really critical.
        If I might use a brief example, I worked in an office that
    did not have an HBCU in their State, but they were committed to
    having a representational workforce. So they created a specific
    intern program named after a civil rights leader from their
    home State and then worked with the community to go out in turn
    and recruit diverse candidates to apply for the internship.
        Building that community connection again can broaden your
    outreach and build that pipeline. It is a first step. But that
    is why we have all addressed the multitude of issues and the
    overlaying. Once staff is here, do they seek people who like
    them? Do they have support of networks? These congressional
    staff associations are so important to provide the staff with a
    sense of welcoming and a place to go when they are struggling
    with professional issues or personal issues. Excuse me. And----
        Ms. Williams. Ms. Meier, thank you for your comments. I am
    going to have to follow up with you later because my time has
    expired, and I do not want to get into another member's time
    for questions.
        Thank you.
        The Chairman. Mr. Latta, let me ask you, I know Mr. Davis
    has to hop off in a minute. Do you mind letting him go ahead of
    you? Is that all right, or do you have to jump too?
        Mr. Latta. Can I think about that? I yield to my good
    friend, Rodney.
        The Chairman. Go ahead, Mr. Davis.
        Mr. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Kilmer.
        And thank you, Mr. Latta, for giving me your 5 minutes and
    mine, so just go ahead and run the clock up to 10.
        Hey--Perlmutter, I will take yours too.
        Hey, I really appreciate the group here, and I really
    appreciate the discussion, and I can tell you, as somebody who
    started as a staffer, this institution means a great deal to
    all of us, and we want to see the diversity in this institution
    continue to grow. I mean, when I started in 1997, nobody paid
    interns. Now we have got paid intern programs. We have got
    opportunities to bring people from every socioeconomic strata
    to Washington, DC, and, you know, to work in our district
    offices too. That is where I worked. And we wanted to make sure
    and we still need to do a better job of making sure diversity
    and inclusion matters at the district office level too.
        But I will tell you, as somebody who now has been here 8.5
    years as a Member, 16 years as a staffer, we have had a wide
    variety of very diverse employees in and out of our offices.
    And here is the good news. The good news is that some of our
    most diverse employees have gone on to better and brighter
    jobs. Because of the work that they were doing in our office to
    such a high standard, they were able to move into something
    that they wanted to do beyond their current positions that we
    weren't able to fulfill within ours. I think that is a good
    sign.
        Here is my concern, though. And, Ms. Hendrix, ODI may have
    the statistics. What is the partisan breakdown of diversity?
    Because I think it is important for us as Republicans to
    realize that, while it may be lower on our side, if you have
    those statistics, what can we do, in your opinion, to help
    encourage more conservative Republican diverse employees to
    come out here? And what can we do to work with your office to
    help make that better and make it more accessible for all folks
    who are interested in working for even our side too?
        Ms. Hendrix. I appreciate the question, Mr. Davis.
        The data collection we have done has not broken down the
    data by party. In some ways, that was intentional because it
    would have been harder to get people to agree to data
    collection because people believe that it would reflect on them
    negatively. We wanted to be able to collect the most robust
    information. We have not done it and divided it by party.
    Especially when you think of our offices are so small and the
    information is collected anonymously, we have not even broken
    the information down by Member or Member office. Our staffs are
    just so small, unlike the data that is collected by Senate
    offices because Senate offices are much, much larger. Some of
    our offices, if you break it down by staff or individual staff,
    some staffs have just a small staff of maybe five or six to
    seven people, depending on the time of the year that you take
    the data collection.
        So we have collected the data of the House as a body rather
    than as an individual staffer of an individual Member office.
    So we have not disaggregated it by party or by member office or
    by individual committee. So I would not be able to provide that
    information for you. I do apologize.
        Mr. Davis. No worries. I mean, I can just tell you just
    from our own perspective, the pool of applicants and diversity
    within those applicants has a lot less to do with race and more
    to do with gender and other issues, and that is a concern that
    I have. And I guess my question to anybody who wants to answer,
    what can we do to increase the applicants for internships, the
    applicants for jobs, the applicants of a more diverse nature
    that would want to come work for more conservative Republicans?
    Because we know--I mean, I am only speaking from my experience
    in the hiring process, I know it is a little more difficult to
    get people to apply. And I want your suggestions on what we can
    do better.
        Ms. Hendrix. And what I will do, speaking--taking liberty
    to speak on behalf of my deputy director, who I work very close
    with, Mr. Castro, we do a lot of work with the college and
    university program and the Republican resume bank. They are
    working very hard and very diligently and are seeing a lot of
    success both in placements and both in intake through the
    resume bank just in the same way that you've seen success in
    the intake in our resume bank and in placements. So I would say
    we don't see diversity as a one-party issue. We are a
    bipartisan office. We are working not to seek increase in
    diversity by party. We are seeking to increase diversity for
    the House. So we are really working to work at this in a
    bipartisan and collaborative effort.
        Mr. Davis. And I am glad you are. I am out of time. I
    appreciate that. That is all of our goals. But if there is a
    deficiency in applicants on one side, we would look forward to
    working with you and Mr. Castro to help fix that.
        So I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr.
    Latta, and thanks for nothing, Perlmutter.
        The Chairman. Next up, because he was here at the gavel, we
    will go to Mr. Latta and then, after him, Mr. Perlmutter.
        Mr. Latta. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair.
        And, to our vice chair, and to our witnesses today, thanks
    for being here today, really informative.
        And, you know, not to go back on some of the things that
    have already discussed, but I think it is really important
    because, again, you know, we heard--I heard the term
    ``pipeline'' used several times by our witnesses this morning.
    And how do we--you know, I know that we want to make sure that
    we are getting more people in these senior positions. A lot of
    times we have to lay that groundwork.
        And I was privileged to serve in our legislature in Ohio
    for 11 years in the Senate and the House, and we have what we
    call the Legislative Service Commission in Ohio, which I think
    is probably one of the best in the State. We have a 13-month
    program where they accept about 40 students from around the
    country to really indepth get to know every part of Ohio and
    the way it operates in the government. And I was fortunate in
    the Senate to always have an LSC intern in my office, and it is
    such a great proving ground for them because after 13 months--
    and plus it is paid--they were highly sought after, not only in
    the legislature but across the country, for what they were able
    to do, and also from all the different companies in Ohio
    because of the training that they received.
        And so, before I start asking some questions, I wanted to
    lay that groundwork. But also with the universities and
    colleges--and I know we have been talking about that and it was
    also asked by some of our members--that, you know, I know that
    Miami of Ohio, they have a program, you know, that they have
    students that come here to Washington, and then they place them
    in offices. And I think it is really important that we reach
    out across the country. In the State of Ohio, I would always
    say, why am I only getting students from certain areas or
    certain colleges? And so then we would literally just try to
    get as much information out because Ohio has a slew of colleges
    and universities. I think we are number four or five in the
    country with the number of schools that we have. But I really
    wanted to make sure that we are bringing people in that want to
    have a certain talent. It wasn't always that they had a
    political science background or something like that. We had
    computer science majors and everybody else that participated in
    these programs.
        So I want to just kind of ask, just going across with all
    of our witness today, what--Mr. Orton, if you could start, you
    know, what has been the experience of going across the country
    to really reach out, you know, in the 50 States, the District
    of Columbia, going out there and trying to pull these students
    from these schools and telling them there is opportunity here
    in Washington? And we really want that, you know, that
    knowledge of those students to come here. And then also maybe
    reaching out to the State Legislatures across the country, if
    they have some training programs that we could also utilize.
        So, Mr. Orton, if you would like to start.
        Mr. Orton. Sure. Thank you, Congressman.
        And, honestly, I think you have laid out a framework that
    the Select Committee really ought to think about. All of the
    places you just identified are certainly kind of areas where a
    more diverse and broad pool of applicants could be cultivated.
    But the reality is that the programs that actually do the work
    of finding students or prospective staffers seems to be fairly
    relegated to a couple of organizations. And I guess for me it
    would be saying, can Congress change the game a little bit? Can
    you commit resources to actually build the kind of program that
    you are talking about, either through ODI or elsewhere?
        I think all of us would agree that the universities, at
    least my experience has certainly been, that there are plenty
    of students of different political affiliations that have
    interests, but they just simply don't know where to start when
    trying to sort of crack this code of gaining entry or an
    opportunity in Congress.
        And so my hope is that Congress itself would actually
    commit real resources to building the kind of programs that you
    are talking about.
        Mr. Latta. Ms. Meier.
        I think you are on mute. There we go.
        Ms. Meier. Okay. I apologize. Thank you.
        Mr. Latta. No. That is fine.
        Ms. Meier. Yes, I think everything you said is spot on.
    There are, in fact, a number of organizations; they are
    nonprofits, so they recruit both Democratic and Republican
    students, recent graduates, and current students to come to DC
    for a period of time. And they focus on diversity, APAICS in
    the Asian Pacific community, CHCI in the Latino community, the
    Congressional Black Caucus Foundation, and they are always
    looking to expand and to build their connections with new
    offices.
        When I was in the diversity initiative, I worked hard to
    get them to build connections in Senate offices because they
    traditionally had placed their students only in House offices.
    But it is important to give them more opportunities to serve
    because it, again, builds that pathway for students who come
    early to see this as a viable career and hopefully get them
    hooked on public service.
        I am going to actually throw a better wrench in the
    conversation, and it addresses a couple of the other questions,
    and I will do this very briefly. And that is the traditional
    model has been to recruit students from internships and out of
    college. I mentioned human resources as an issue for Members to
    be more familiar with because understanding the trends of the
    future workforce is also important. Younger workers will be
    less likely to stay at a job for any long period of time. It is
    how they approach it. However, people are staying in the
    workforce for longer. So also looking at how you can draw
    diverse professionals who are farther along in their career.
    They don't have some of the basics you learn as an intern, but
    they are smart people. I have had numerous conversations with
    very successful professionals, people of color, who said: I
    always wanted to work in DC. I never had the money to move as
    an intern. I wish I had started. Is there a way to go back?
        So looking at diversity in this manner too can also
    increase the number of people you recruit and bring in really
    talented diverse professionals to provide you service.
        Mr. Latta. Thank you very much.
        Mr. Chairman, I know my time. I overran it, and I
    appreciate your indulgence. And I yield back.
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        Next up, Mr. Perlmutter.
        Mr. Perlmutter. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
        I guess I am kind of looking at this in sections. So we
    have sort of got the employees of the House. So the staff
    employees, so staff committee employee--committee staff folks,
    but then my personal office, and I am just--you know, and then
    there is new Members and then Members that have been here for a
    while.
        So, for me, the way we have done it is I like to hire from
    my campaign, and I like to hire from within, and I like to--and
    folks come from my offices in Colorado to DC, and so, in my
    three top staff, you know, my chief of staff, who has been with
    me since the beginning, she was my campaign manager. The other
    two top have been with me for the whole time as well, which
    makes it hard to accomplish the things, Ms. Hendrix, you want
    to accomplish.
        And so I am curious how I--I think what I have is a good
    cycle. I have got longevity, which is one of the goals of this
    committee is to have staff stability. Yet I am not able to plug
    in, you know, new faces, if you will, and new and additional
    diversity. It is all coming from my district.
        So I don't know. I am just sort of at a--I feel a little
    perplexed by this. And I would open it up first to you, Ms.
    Hendrix, and then to the whole panel. I don't think I am that
    unusual in how I do my hiring. So, Ms. Hendrix, what do you
    suggest?
        Ms. Hendrix. I think the beauty of the House is that there
    is so much variance, but in variance, sometimes there is chaos.
    And so what I said is--what I would recommend is that you have
    to think about, because you know at the top there isn't going
    to be movement, you have to think about the future of your
    junior staff because you know your senior staff are going to
    stay intact. So you have to think--your particular staff is
    going to have to think about the future of your junior
    staffers, where they have to go in the future, and so think
    about training options, think about how to keep them engaged,
    think about how to think about their future and----
        Mr. Perlmutter. So what--here is my question to you. If my
    approach is to hire from the campaign to the district office,
    from the district office to Washington, I mean, maybe that is
    what I have got to change because what I don't feel is a pool
    of applicants, if you will, in Colorado.
        Ms. Hendrix. Interestingly, I grew up in Colorado. So that
    could be part of your opportunity. Look at organizations within
    Colorado to think about recruiting for your campaign and think
    about developing the diversity of your campaign staff so it is
    not just in one place. You want to think about the diversity of
    all of those components. And really it is about outcomes on
    campaign. You are thinking about outcomes. How do you engage
    different communities to think about the outcome that you would
    like to yield in your election? And diversity is a component of
    that.
        And so diversity isn't for diversity's sake. You really
    want to think about what your outcomes are, and diverse teams
    do that. That is what we are really talking about here. We are
    not--diversity is about business outcomes, is about audience
    outcomes, and that is what diverse groups and teams do. They
    yield better outcomes. And so that is what your recruiting
    metrics should be about. And it is about skill sets. It is
    about opportunities. It is about creating the needs that you
    would--the needs and opportunities you would like to yield, and
    that is what we are really talking about. It is not a Noah's
    Ark opportunity for metrics or opportunities. We are really
    talking about diversity so that you can engage the people that
    you need to for the opportunities you would like to create for
    your constituents, for the opportunities you would like to
    create for the people that you are serving. And so you need all
    of the ideals and opinions and--I am missing a word here. But
    you need all of those----
        Mr. Perlmutter. No, no, no----
        Ms. Hendrix [continuing]. Things together to begin with.
        Mr. Perlmutter. And so, for me, you know, that would be
    internships locally for sure. And I liked Representative
    Williams' suggestion, and we talked about it, of recruiting
    from college campuses. And it may be that I skip the campaign
    and go straight to the internships for the office, which we do
    a lot of that.
        I will yield back. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Perlmutter.
        Next up, Mr. Cleaver.
        Oops, I am sorry, Mr. Cleaver, we had you, and then we lost
    you.
        Mr. Cleaver. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. You have got it.
        Mr. Cleaver. I would like to thank you and Mr. Timmons for
    bringing the subject up because I think it is critically
    important, and it is something that we probably avoid too much
    with intentionality. So this--I think this is important.
        And I would like--and thank you for our panel, thank you.
    You guys are very smooth and clear with your comments.
        And so I want to find out if you think this works out. Bill
    Clinton had a White House personnel director by the name of Bob
    Nash, who I will--from Little Rock, and I have known him for 30
    years or maybe more. And he did something his first month in
    office after he appointed Bob. He went in and said to Bob in
    his office--and he said it in front of a lot of folk--he said:
    Bob, if anyone comes to me at all complaining about the lack of
    diversity, you are fired.
        And, I mean, the people who were close in that
    administration will tell you that Bob Nash, who was a good guy,
    but, I mean, Bob Nash was constantly dealing with these issues
    of diversity. You know, he would call, you know, somebody and
    say: Hey, your department is not looking good. You need to do
    something. You need to do it fast.
        So I am wondering if you guys think that is too much
    pressure or is that, you know, something that--in other words,
    if a Member said to somebody, whoever that somebody is, in
    their operation, ``Hey, I want a diverse staff, and if I don't
    get it, I am blaming you,'' you know, is that too tough or----
        Ms. Austin Reed. Congressman, I will take your question or
    at least I will start and turn it over to my colleagues to try.
        I worked for some of your friends who challenged me pretty
    much that, that they expected that their staff be diverse, and
    I think as a chief of staff, what it meant was every single
    opening that my office had and every internship, fellowship,
    any way our office could externally engage, I had to
    challenge--I knew that my bosses, the Members, had a certain
    expectation that I had turned over every single rock.
        And so I think, you know, we talked earlier about setting
    the tone starts at the top, so you as the Member making that
    the expectation really sets the culture for the office and can
    drive the decisionmaking for that chief and the rest of the
    staff. So I think it is a lot of pressure, but it certainly can
    make change.
        Mr. Orton. I would hop in on that as well.
        I would agree. I think maybe I would encourage you also,
    Congressman--it is good to see you too, sir--to set a timeframe
    for your staff. Right? I don't think this can happen
    necessarily in immediate turnaround, but if you set goals to
    Maria's point about a diversity plan and sort of map that out
    what that can look like over the course of a Congress, over the
    course of however many years, that would provide some
    framework. I know that if I were a staffer with that sort of
    directive, I would feel a little more comfortable with.
        And I would also encourage all members of the select
    committee to think about how every Member of Congress, you
    know, there are good times to stand out, and there are bad
    times to stand out. And I remember when everybody started
    bringing in Kindles and iPads. Right? And eventually everyone
    had to have one. In fact, I remember Congressman Perlmutter and
    Congressman Cleaver talking to my former boss in the middle of
    hearings about this stuff. I think that kind of peer pressure
    works. I really do. So I would encourage folks to think about
    that as well.
        Ms. Meier. I would like to--I am sorry.
        Mr. Cleaver. Yes. Go ahead. Somebody was saying----
        Ms. Meier. With respect to hardworking chiefs of staff,
    accountability is what is going to yield results. But I would
    had to that layer, it is not just about hiring, but it is about
    retention and the promotion, so the full spectrum of the
    process.
        Mr. Cleaver. Yes. I appreciate your answers. If you know
    anybody from the Clinton administration, ask them who is Bob
    Nash. I mean, everybody, everybody would know him. And if they
    got a phone call and they said, ``Mr. Nash is on the phone,''
    they would start trembling. And, I mean, he was--but, I mean,
    that is one way of doing it. But, you know, we are in a
    slightly different situation, you know, in Congress. But,
    nonetheless, we still have an issue.
        Anyway, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back the 1 second
    I have left.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Cleaver.
        Next up, Mr. Phillips.
        Mr. Phillips. I had my audio on, not video.
        Good morning, everybody. I joined a little bit late, so
    forgive me if I am covering some ground that has been already.
    But I think it is fair to say if we really want to expand the
    pipeline, we have got to pedal way further upstream than we do
    right now. I know there has been some conversation about
    accessing college students to introduce them to potential
    careers on the Hill, but can't we look at going a little
    further upstream? You know, how can we engage high school
    students? How can we expose the work of Congress in ways that
    perhaps isn't being attempted yet so that we can expand the
    pool of diversity?
        And I would turn that question to anybody who might have
    some thoughts on it.
        Ms. Meier. I will go ahead and start. And thank you for the
    question.
        It is a holistic and comprehensive approach. And I tried to
    do this in my remarks, and I do it in my work, and I stress it
    is, again, not diversity for diversity's sake. But it is the
    work to build inclusion, which in turn is just going to yield a
    better product and help you in the work that you do.
        I cited an example of an office I worked in that created a
    community diversity civic leader task force that was able to
    reach out in ways that the office in DC couldn't. The district
    office had some relationships and were involved in the
    community, but they were extra sets of eyes and ears. So
    building those coalitions at the high school level to even
    introduce the concept is very critical. Again, you don't have
    to do any of this work yourself. There are organizations. There
    are organizations that bring high school students to DC.
    Building off of those and building those coalitions can help
    you take this to the next level of building inclusion.
        And, again, I also recommend going the other direction, not
    just the younger entry level staff, but people already in their
    careers who might be open to making a career change and bring
    really valuable work experience.
        Mr. Phillips. Anybody else want to share a perspective on
    that?
        I not, if I might ask, you know, which organization, in
    your estimation, is doing the best work in high schools so that
    we might try to amplify and advocate for?
        Ms. Austin Reed. Congressman Phillips, I will point to one
    example of my former boss, Congresswoman Frederica Wilson, who
    has the 5,000 Role Models of Excellence Project. It is in every
    elementary, middle, and high school in Florida, and it trains
    young men on all facets of civic education. And those are the
    types of programs that are integrated with their school
    programming that you can get to a young person early, tell them
    that they can be a legislative assistant in Congress, inform
    them about internships and pipeline them.
        I think, you know, to your earlier question, we have to
    fund it. We have to make it programming, and someone has to be
    in charge of and accountable for this work. And I think, you
    know, we are innovative and smart enough to create that.
        Mr. Phillips. And that is called--I am sorry. And her
    program is called 5,000----
        Ms. Austin Reed. It is called the 5,000 Role Models of
    Excellence Project, and I am happy to follow up with your staff
    to give you----
        Mr. Phillips. Yes, would love to learn more about that.
        Just one followup question for all of you too. You know,
    Congress is woefully ill-equipped to train not just staffers
    but Members of Congress, and as a Member now just in my second
    term, amongst my many surprises is how poorly prepared new
    Members are for the work.
        You know, how can Congress better offer boot camps, whether
    it be--well, Members as well, but for staff members and for
    those who might want to make a career change? You know, we
    don't have mechanisms to expose people to potential
    opportunities in other categories. Any thoughts on that, how we
    become a more intentional training institution?
        Ms. Meier. I will go ahead and start.
        And, Congressman, in response briefly to your previous
    question, as soon as you asked it, I went blank. But I was
    going to recommend Close Up that brings high school students.
    They are a very comprehensive program.
        Mr. Phillips. Close Up?
        Ms. Meier. Close Up. And I can provide that information,
    contact information to your staff.
        Mr. Phillips. Thank you.
        Ms. Meier. They are ones that I know that also work hard on
    ensuring that they recruit a diverse body of students.
        I mentioned in earlier comments that I do support your
    committee's recommendation to enhance new Member orientation,
    and I would say, you know, even expand that to yearly
    conference retreats that contain--bringing in speakers,
    trainers, partnering with management organizations, that
    bringing in a component of HR issues that also address and help
    Members understand the role of DEI. I know you have a lot on
    your plates, but building it into the system early on and
    annually can help that knowledge.
        I also recommended in a certification program creating a
    management certification program for----
        Mr. Phillips. Yes.
        Ms. Meier. In my written statement, I referenced the Civil
    Service SES for senior executive programs. They have a set of
    work competencies, and I think there are elements there to be
    drawn from in creating that certification program that can be
    offered over the course of one Congress so no one is burdened
    by a week-long single training program.
        Mr. Phillips. Wonderful.
        Well, I thank you all. And, please, any organizations doing
    great work, if you would, you know, share those with us so that
    we can elevate and be better ambassadors.
        Thank you very much.
        The Chairman. Ms. Hendrix, I see you have more to say, and
    I want you to say it because I think we want to hear from you.
        Go ahead.
        Ms. Hendrix. I have one organization that is actually a
    Colorado organization. It is Youth Celebrate Diversity, and it
    trains--it started at Cherry Creek High School in Colorado, and
    it is about 14 years old, and they do workshops and training.
    It is a--because I went to Cherry Creek in high school, but it
    grew out of that, and they have been working for about 14
    years, and they do workshops and trainings in Colorado for
    youth on diversity, equity, and inclusion and social programs
    in Colorado.
        Mr. Phillips. And what is it called, Ms. Hendrix? I am
    sorry.
        Ms. Hendrix. Youth Celebrate Diversity.
        Mr. Phillips. Youth Celebrate Diversity. Okay. I love that.
    Yes, thank you. I have made notes on all of those. Any more you
    want to share?
        Just one little anecdote if I could take a moment. You
    know, I remember Business Day in my elementary school about as
    much as anything, having to create a little business and learn
    about revenue and expenses and come up with a marketing plan.
    But that notion for public service, you know, how we might
    implant those, you know, seeds at much younger ages so people
    even know that it--so young kids know what is possible and
    learn how to pass a bill and kind of ignite that potential
    interest at a younger age.
        I would love to work with all of you on that. If you know
    of organizations doing that already, please send them our way.
        With that, now that I am about 10 minutes over time, I
    yield back.
        The Chairman. I have got to tell you, Dean, I think
    Business Day really nailed it for you. Well done, Business Day.
        We have a little bit of time for additional questions if
    our witnesses are open to that. I will give members an
    opportunity to ask a second round if they have them.
        I had a couple I wanted to ask Ms. Austin Reed. I wanted to
    get a sense from you of what types of professional networking
    and training opportunities that groups like the Black Women's
    Congressional Alliance offer that the House doesn't?
        Ms. Austin Reed. Thank you so much for that question.
        What we try to focus on, Chairman, is market responsive
    training, so we are--I hear from our members, we hear from our
    members about issues that are very unique to Black women. So,
    as Kemba mentioned in her--or Ms. Hendrix mentioned in her
    testimony earlier, she hears from staff that they are stagnant
    in their offices. They have to leave to come back. There is
    that anecdotal, but we see it in trying to fill roles
    constantly. And so we talk about how to, in your office,
    navigate the inner office politics. For people who are seeking
    to be a chief of staff, sometimes you don't have that--it is
    great that Congressman Perlmutter brought up the campaign
    experience. Sometimes to be a chief, you need that campaign
    experience. But that is not something that the House can talk
    about. So we talk about how you get on a campaign and how you
    develop those skill sets.
        So we try to think through, we are not a--it is why we are
    a network and not an official staff organization at the House.
    We try to think through all of the unique circumstances of a
    Black woman, whether that is negotiating your pay, being the
    only Black woman or person of color in your office. And I think
    if we could more tailor our trainings to the unique needs of
    diverse staff in an institution that has been historically
    White and male, I think you would start to see more defined
    trainings that are good for that network of staffers.
        The Chairman. And, Ms. Meier, do you have some suggestions
    for how managerial training can be impactful and long lasting?
    You know, obviously, there is a broad set of training that
    would be valuable. But with limited resources being the
    reality, should we focus our efforts on immersive programs that
    offer certifications or on-demand training for when managers
    feel like they don't have the toolset that they need? Give us
    some guidance.
        Ms. Meier. Thank you for that question because it is
    critical. Again, the managers really set the tone for how the
    office is going to function and how you are going to attract
    and recruit staff. And I believe the ultimate goal or goal to
    work towards is a longer certification program. Again, I cited
    in my remarks that Federal service doesn't always provide all
    of the answers that work on the Hill. But as--if you can build
    a program and then as staff enters it, then you have got that
    established way of approaching it and getting managers up and
    running. But the here and now, I do think, again, there is
    enough work being done by management organizations, by other
    groups that focus on training that can be partners for bringing
    them in and simply expanding the training options. That might
    be either allowing an extra day of vacation specifically for
    training or expanding the budgets for offices to send their
    staff short term to start giving them--you know, create a menu
    of the top two or three most critical issues that managers are
    facing.
        Too often trainings can come in and be a punitive manner,
    and I really believe looking at training that staff feels they
    are getting professional development out of, that they are
    enhancing themselves, then they are more likely to be willing
    to commit to that.
        I will add from a personal note, I was involved last year
    in the first of its kind training program for staff through a
    501(c)(3) that also offered executive level coaching. This is
    the kind of training you would get if you were in corporate
    America. But it is amazingly powerful to provide individuals
    that ability to build their own leadership development because
    they are going to bring that strength to their roles and be
    stronger, stronger staff members for you. And I hope that there
    are mechanisms where we can continue that and expand that as an
    option to staff.
        The Chairman. That is very helpful.
        Let me ask if any of the other members who are on have
    additional questions?
        I have gotten texts from many of the committee saying they
    do not.
        Mr. Perlmutter. I do.
        The Chairman. Go ahead, Mr. Perlmutter.
        Mr. Perlmutter. Yes. I just--now that I have gone to a
    chairmanship of at least a subcommittee in Financial Services--
    and, clearly, we have staff that has been with the committee
    for a very long time. I mean, how--and to everybody, how, as a
    Member of the House, do I encourage like my chairs in Science
    or Rules or Financial Services or this committee, whatever, how
    do I encourage my chairs, you know, to really be looking at a
    diverse staff? And where do they go? Do they go to Ms. Hendrix?
        I start with you, Mr. Orton, because you weren't kidding me
    about the iPad, so I am going to start with you.
        Mr. Orton. Yes. I would say, I mean, when I was on the
    Hill, Ms. Meier just started the Senate Diversity Initiative,
    and I think all of those sort of efforts had just started. So I
    am amazed at some of the progress. And I would say starting
    there makes a lot of sense to me.
        But I think an earlier point was made about sort of the
    rhetoric and the tone being set at the top by you. I can't
    stress how important that is. I think if staff understand that
    this is very much a real priority for the chairperson of a
    committee or a subcommittee, that carries a long ways I think,
    you know, setting the culture of the committee or the staff as
    well for an office. So I would say certainly ODI, to the extent
    that I understand the work that they are doing. But I think we
    can't get around the fact that if we don't really put some
    muscle behind these efforts, investment in these efforts, there
    is only so much that these offices are going to be able to do.
    And so I think we do have to sort of take a full look at sort
    of how this works. But my hope is that we can continue to build
    out those offices.
        Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you.
        I am prepared to yield back. Thanks Mr. Chair.
        Ms. Austin Reed. Congressman, I just wanted to volunteer,
    the Black Women's Congressional Alliance, we help committees
    and personnel offices fill roles. So staff directors, LDs,
    chiefs can reach out to us, and we can tap into our network of
    women to help fill your roles.
        Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you very much.
        Ms. Austin Reed. You know, it is not a silver bullet, but
    we are ready to help.
        Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Okay. Any other members with a second-round
    question?
        All righty. Seeing none, with that, I would like to thank
    our witnesses for their testimony today. I am very grateful for
    your insights, and I have found it very illuminating.
        Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days
    within which to submit additional written questions for the
    witnesses to the chair, which will be forwarded to the
    witnesses for their response. I ask our witnesses to please
    respond as promptly as you are able.
        Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days
    within which to submit extraneous materials to the chair for
    inclusion in the record.
        I also just want to thank our terrific staff for putting
    together such a terrific panel of witnesses, very grateful for
    the work in pulling this together.
        And, with that, we are adjourned. Thanks everybody.
        [Whereupon, at 10:31 a.m., the committee was adjourned.]