[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                    LEGISLATIVE BRANCH APPROPRIATIONS
                                 FOR 2023

_______________________________________________________________________

                                 HEARINGS

                                BEFORE THE

                       COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

                         HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                     ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                              SECOND SESSION

                                 __________

                    SUBCOMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE BRANCH

                         TIM RYAN, Ohio, Chairman

  KATHERINE M. CLARK, Massachusetts     JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER, Washington
  ED CASE, Hawaii                       MARK E. AMODEI, Nevada
  ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York           DAN NEWHOUSE, Washington 
  JENNIFER WEXTON, Virginia              

  NOTE: Under committee rules, Ms. DeLauro, as chair of the full 
committee, and Ms. Granger, as ranking minority member of the full 
committee, are authorized to sit as members of all subcommittees.

              Faye Cobb, Elizabeth Lapham, and Ryann Kinney
                            Subcommittee Staff

                                 __________


                                  PART 2

                   FISCAL YEAR 2023 LEGISLATIVE BRANCH
                         APPROPRIATIONS REQUESTS



[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                 __________

          Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations
                              
                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                 
48-382                   WASHINGTON : 2022












                      COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

                  ROSA L. DeLAURO, Connecticut, Chair


  MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio                          KAY GRANGER, Texas    
  DAVID E. PRICE, North Carolina              HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky 
  LUCILLE ROYBAL-ALLARD, California           ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama          
  SANFORD D. BISHOP, Jr., Georgia             MICHAEL K. SIMPSON, Idaho  
  BARBARA LEE, California                     JOHN R. CARTER, Texas  
  BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota                   KEN CALVERT, California   
  TIM RYAN, Ohio                              TOM COLE, Oklahoma   
  C. A. DUTCH RUPPERSBERGER, Maryland         MARIO DIAZ-BALART, Florida     
  DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, Florida           STEVE WOMACK, Arkansas     
  HENRY CUELLAR, Texas                        CHUCK FLEISCHMANN, Tennessee
  CHELLIE PINGREE, Maine                      JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER, Washington     
  MIKE QUIGLEY, Illinois                      DAVID P. JOYCE, Ohio 
  DEREK KILMER, Washington                    ANDY HARRIS, Maryland   
  MATT CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania               MARK E. AMODEI, Nevada         
  GRACE MENG, New York                        CHRIS STEWART, Utah
  MARK POCAN, Wisconsin                       STEVEN M. PALAZZO, Mississippi 
  KATHERINE M. CLARK, Massachusetts           DAVID G. VALADAO, California       
  PETE AGUILAR, California                    DAN NEWHOUSE, Washington     
  LOIS FRANKEL, Florida                       JOHN R. MOOLENAAR, Michigan
  CHERI BUSTOS, Illinois                      JOHN H. RUTHERFORD, Florida       
  BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN, New Jersey           BEN CLINE, Virginia       
  BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan                GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania          
  NORMA J. TORRES, California                 MIKE GARCIA, California       
  CHARLIE CRIST, Florida                      ASHLEY HINSON, Iowa   
  ANN KIRKPATRICK, Arizona                    TONY GONZALES, Texas            
  ED CASE, Hawaii                             JULIA LETLOW, Louisiana
  ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York                       
  JOSH HARDER, California                       
  JENNIFER WEXTON, Virginia                   
  DAVID J. TRONE, Maryland                    
  LAUREN UNDERWOOD, Illinois                   
  SUSIE LEE, Nevada                                 

                    Robin Juliano, Clerk and Staff Director

                                   (ii) 
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                             March 30, 2022 
                             
                          U.S. Capitol Police

                                                                   Page
J. Thomas Manger, Chief, U.S. Capitol Police.....................     1
    Answers to submitted questions...............................    81

                             April 5, 2022
                    Government Accountability Office

Hon. Gene L. Dodaro, Comptroller General, U.S. Government 
  Accountability Office..........................................    35
    Answers to submitted questions...............................    62

                      Congressional Budget Office

Philip Swagel, Director, Congressional Budget Office.............    65
    Answers to submitted questions...............................    87

                     Congressional Workplace Rights

Teresa M. James, Acting Executive Director, Office of 
  Congressional Workplace Rights.................................    89

                             April 6, 2022
                        House of Representatives

Hon. Cheryl L. Johnson, Clerk, U.S. House of Representatives.....   109
    Answers to submitted questions...............................   164
Hon. Catherine Szpindor, Chief Administrative Officer, U.S. House 
  of Representatives.............................................   117
Hon. William J. Walker, Sergeant at Arms, U.S. House of 
  Representatives................................................   125

                           Submitted Material

Enumale Agada, Acting Director, Office of Diversity and Inclusion   143
E. Wade Ballou, Jr., Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative 
  Counsel, U.S. House of Representatives.........................   146
Douglas N. Letter, General Counsel, Office of General Counsel, 
  U.S. House of Representatives..................................   151
Joseph C. Picolla, Acting Inspector General, Office of Inspector 
  General, U.S. House of Representatives.........................   154
Ralph V. Seep, Law Revision Counsel, Office of the Law Revision 
  Counsel........................................................   159

                             April 27, 2022
                          Library of Congress

Dr. Carla Hayden, Librarian of Congress..........................   177
    Answers to submitted questions...............................   214

                      Government Publishing Office

Hon. Hugh, Halpern, Director, Congressional Publishing Office....   219

                        Architect of the Capitol

J. Brett Blanton, Architect of the Capitol.......................   243

                              Members' Day

Hon. Derek Kilmer, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Washington.....................................................   264
Hon. William R. Timmons IV, a Representative in Congress from the 
  State of North Carolina........................................   270
Hon. Dan Newhouse, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Washington.....................................................   275
Hon. Andy Levin, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Michigan, submitted statement..................................   278
Hon. Steve Cohen, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Tennessee, submitted statement.................................   280
Hon. Seth Moulton, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Massachusetts, submitted statement.............................   283
Hon. Mike Quigley, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Illinois, submitted statement..................................   285

 
               LEGISLATIVE BRANCH APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2023

                                 __________

                                         Wednesday, March 30, 2022.

                      UNITED STATES CAPITOL POLICE

                                WITNESS

CHIEF J. THOMAS MANGER

                   Opening Statement of Chairman Ryan

    Mr. Ryan. I now call to order the hearing on the United 
States Capitol Police.
    Recording is in progress.
    This is a hybrid hearing. So we need to address a few 
housekeeping matters, so if you can bear with me for a minute.
    For members joining virtually, please be respectful of 
members in the hearing room. And do not talk over them when 
members in person have been recognized.
    For the members joining virtually, once you start speaking, 
there is a slight delay before you are displayed on the main 
screen. Speaking into the microphone activates the camera 
displaying the speaker on the main screen. Do not stop your 
remarks if you do not immediately see the screen switch. If the 
screen does not change after several seconds, please make sure 
you are not muted.
    To minimize background noise and ensure the correct speaker 
is being displayed, we ask you remain on mute unless you have 
sought recognition. The chair or an individual designated by 
the chair may mute participants' microphones when they are not 
under recognition to eliminate inadvertent background noise. 
Members who have virtually are responsible for muting and 
unmuting themselves.
    If I notice, when you are recognized, that you have fraught 
unmuted yourself, I will ask you if you would like the staff to 
unmute you. If you indicate approval by nodding, the staff will 
unmute your microphone.
    Finally, House rules require me to remind you that we have 
set up an email address to which members can send anything they 
wish to submit in writing at any of our hearings. That email 
address has been provided in advance to your staff.
    Okay. So let's begin. Chief Manger, very happy to see you. 
Thank you for being here.
    Chief Administrative Officer Richard Braddock, members of 
the Capitol Police Executive Team, Thomas DiBiase, U.S. Capitol 
Police General Counsel, and the FOP Chairman Gus Papathanasiou.
    Thank you for being here. We appreciate all the work you 
guys are doing, together with the management and labor, to make 
this whole operation work.
    I want to thank each of you and all the officers and 
civilians at the Capitol Police who work tirelessly to ensure 
the safety and security of the Members, employees, visitors, 
and facilities, both here and within our districts.
    The Capitol Police have a very unique role as the only law 
enforcement agency solely responsible for protecting the 
Congress and the U.S. Capitol complex. I repeat this at each of 
our hearings to emphasize the essential role the Capitol Police 
plays as an agency of the legislative branch. The men and women 
of the Capitol Police put their lives on the line each day to 
ensure Congress can operate efficiently and carry out their 
roles as described in the Constitution. You do your jobs so 
that we can do ours.
    Thank you for joining us this morning to discuss the 
department's fiscal year 2023 budget request. Currently 
resources for the Capitol Police are 10 percent of the entire 
legislative branch budget, totaling $602.5 million. Today you 
will be requesting $708 million, a significant increase above 
what was already provided in supplemental funding and the 
fiscal year budget. This is an increase of $105.5 million over 
the fiscal year 2022 enacted totals.
    Safety, security, and wellness remain this subcommittee's 
top priorities. I don't need to tell you that the threats to 
Members and the Capitol complex are significantly on the rise. 
As stated in your request, increases in the numbers of threats 
and directions of interest towards Members of Congress have 
increased tenfold in the past 5 years.
    In one year, from 2020 to 2021, these threats and 
directions of interest towards Members increase almost 12 
percent, reaching as high as 9,625 threats.
    On January 6th, we witnessed how these threats turn into 
action. Today, Chief, I hope you will address how your budget 
request of an additional $905 million reflects the Capitol 
Police's response to the many security recommendations that 
have been made since the attack and how more resources will 
positively impact the security planning, policies, and 
procedures that were lacking on that day.
    The continuous rise in threats makes it clear that 
increases in improvements are needed. But we on this committee 
need to understand in detail how any increases provided will be 
used to increase our security posture and keep us, our staffs, 
and visitors safe.
    As the Capitol campus begins to reopen to the American 
public, we need to understand the plan for this year, next 
year, and the future. We need to know how your request will 
enhance security, be regularized, and make us all safe.
    I look forward to your testimony today.
    At this point, I would like to yield to our ranking member, 
my friend and colleague from Washington State, Ms. Herrera 
Beutler, for any opening comments she would like to make.

          Opening Statement of Ranking Member Herrera Beutler

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you, Chief, for being here. Welcome to your first 
hearing, hopefully the first of many.
    As was stated, the United States Capitol Police fiscal 2023 
request is about a 17.52-percent increase over last year. I 
don't need to go into all those numbers. We talked about this a 
little bit as well.
    And for those who are not aware--I know the folks in this 
room are, but those who may be watching--the Capitol Police 
serve to protect this Capitol, the people's House. And it is 
the epicenter of and a beacon in terms of democracy. And, yes, 
it is an increasingly partisan political landscape. It is 
probably not more partisan than it has been at times in the 
past.
    I really think that everything together, including 
frustrations from a global pandemic, has brought to a boil 
feelings and emotions here that probably I think everybody, the 
stress of it, everyone is feeling. Only your members, your 
staff have to do a job to keep people safe in the middle of all 
of that and allow it to still function.
    The daily service and the sacrifices of the Capitol Police, 
the men and women who wear that uniform, I think are amazing. 
They give it to protect a historic--not a monument but a 
living, breathing example of what our country is. And it is 
here in the heartbeat of democracy. So we are really, really 
grateful to you. And we are grateful to the men and women who 
continue to come in every day.
    Over the last year, the department, the leadership, and the 
policies of the department have been justifiably scrutinized 
through numerous reviews stemming from the January 6th 
insurrection.
    Those include Capitol Police by the inspector general, the 
Architect of the Capitol inspector general, the GAO, Government 
Accountability Office, third-party assessments, and numerous 
congressional reviews, including by this committee, that have 
offered substantial recommendations in the needed evolution of 
the operations of your department. In fact, we installed a new 
chief.
    In addition to the enhancements to your intelligence and 
investigative capabilities, enhanced training, developing 
better resources, management methods, and advancement to the 
department's overall culture are still a work in progress. You 
are building on it, but it still is going to grow.
    As the Capitol Police expands its reach across the Nation, 
investigating threats aggressively--we talked about this. I am 
just going to repeat it because I think people need to know. We 
went from, you know, 1,000 to maybe 1,500 threats about 5 or 6 
years ago to Members of Congress to almost 10,000 in a year. 
That is today's numbers. And that is what you are tasked with 
trying to help manage, all this while you are trying to rebuild 
your force here in D.C.
    And increasing your capabilities and your resources right 
now really is the perfect time to implement a lot of the 
recommendations that have been from these ongoing assessments. 
So these recommendations and the best practices, I think, 
should be the foundation to the advancement of department and 
how its human and its technical and physical resources 
function. That is my view.
    As various recommendations are implemented--and I know you 
have been, you are doing that--and changes are made to the way 
that the department operates, it is important that there be an 
increased transparency and accountability because people are 
going to need to see how this is happening.
    This department's first budget request--this is the first 
budget request since January 6. And it takes into account the 
resources Congress provided in the security supplemental last 
year and now must account--now must be accounted to your 
overall funding.
    I believe the subcommittee recognized we would see an 
increase in your budget request this year, but you are asking 
for over $100 million increase. An increase that significant 
obviously needs to be thoughtfully considered in view of the 
public, and I look forward to hearing more about the resources 
the Capitol police need and are requesting today and through 
this hearing.
    So thank you for be here. We really appreciate it.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thanks, Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Ms. 
Herrera Beutler, for be the great partner in all this over the 
last couple of years. So we appreciate your leadership.
    The chair of the full committee, Ms. DeLauro.

                   Opening Statement of Chair DeLauro

    The Chair. Thank you.
    Thank you very much, Chairman Ryan and Ranking Member 
Herrera Beutler. This is an incredibly important hearing, and I 
want to say a thank to you Chief Manger for testifying here 
this morning.
    It has been just a little over a year since a mob of 
violent insurrectionists stormed the Capitol. Their intent was 
on stopping the peaceful transfer of power. A horrifying day 
for many of us but even more so horrifying for the women and 
men of the U.S. Capitol Police. Many of them risked their lives 
defending us and our democracy. And four officers ultimately 
lost their lives. Others suffered serious injuries, while still 
more are continuing to suffer from the psychological traumas 
that they endured.
    As these officers recover from that day and return to post-
COVID operations, which include opening the campus to visitors, 
it is critical that we ensure the force is sufficiently 
equipped to meet existing security needs and that we fully 
support the Capitol Police.
    The Capitol Police are dealing with more threats, as has 
just been mentioned by our ranking member, that almost 10,000 
threats against members that are becoming more sophisticated 
and are involving individual actors as well as domestic 
terrorist groups.
    The Capitol Police continue to be called upon to protect 
the Congress, not only here in D.C. but also in our districts. 
This means the Capitol Police of yesterday is no longer 
sufficient to meet the challenges of today or tomorrow, and it 
is our responsibility to help equip them to meet those 
increased challenges.
    That is why I am proud that we were able to include an 
increase of $87 million for the Capitol Police in the fiscal 
year 2022 government funding package. That funding will support 
more than 2,000 officers, over 450 civilian members of the 
Capitol Police force. This funding also included several 
significant measures to help bring more transparency, 
diversity, leadership training, and to standardize vetting of 
individuals who seek employment with the Capitol Police.
    It has been said, but it is worth saying over and over 
again: You protect us every single day. You put your lives on 
the line every single day. That has implications for the police 
force, but there are implications for your families as well and 
their concern about what happens to the men and women that they 
love, and are they being safe?
    We recognize, and we need to recognize for those who don't, 
what a tough job this is. And what we need to do is to respect 
the work of the Capitol Police and that we must provide the 
resources that are necessary. For you to do your job to protect 
us, we need to protect you.
    And I would probably go so far as saying is that these days 
there is a low morale problem with law enforcement agencies. 
Capitol police, police departments around the country, we need 
to let you know and our law enforcement agencies around the 
Nation that we are here to fund the police and to make sure 
that you have what you need to get the job done.
    And so we know that how we want to--there are new 
challenges, and, therefore, we need to do more. As I said, we 
need to honor the sacrifices. But we need more funding for 
staffing, providing for hazard and retention bonuses, increase 
overtime pay, student loan repayment, and, most importantly, a 
better work-life balance. It means providing for the mental 
health that the chair spoke about so that the officers of the 
Capitol Police remain resilient and committed to the 
indispensable role they play while also ensuring they feel 
respected and valued in the critical work that they do to 
secure the United States Congress.
    With that, let me yield back.
    And I thank you so much, Chief, for being here and look 
forward to your testimony.

                     CHAIRMAN OUTLINES PROCEEDINGS

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. DeLauro.
    I agree with you 1,000 percent on what you said. We are 
seeing these issues all over the country of people not--having 
difficulty filling spots in departments all over the country.
    So, Chief, at the beginning of your testimony, please 
introduce any colleagues that you have here joining you with 
your presentation.
    And, without objection, your written testimony will be made 
part of the record. Please summarize your statement for the 
members of the committee. And, once you have finished your 
statement, we will move to the question-and-answer period.
    Thank you again for being with us, and the floor is yours.

                  Testimony of Chief J. Thomas Manger

    Chief Manger. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Ryan. Thank 
you, Chairwoman DeLauro. Thank you Ranking Member Herrera 
Beutler, and members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the 
opportunity to present the United States Capitol Police budget 
for fiscal year 2023.
    And, Chairman Ryan, thank you for acknowledging the several 
members of my staff that are here. Also with us is Acting 
Assistant Chief Sean Gallagher. And, as you mentioned, we have 
the CAO, my general counsel, and the chairman of the FOP, who I 
am very pleased is here as well.
    Mr. Ryan. You need to say his last name for us.
    Chief Manger. Gus Papathanasiou.
    Mr. Ryan. Excellent.
    Chief Manger. If that is my first question, I answered it 
well. But I told him it is like Cher. He can just go by Gus. 
Everybody knows who he is.
    As this committee knows very well, our mission is complex, 
relentless, and unique in Federal law enforcement. As has been 
said by several members of this committee, we are responsible 
for the protection of the United States Capitol, the most 
notable symbol of democracy around the world.
    This fiscal year 2023 budget request allows the United 
States Capitol Police to keep pace with the evolving 
challenges, the additional responsibilities, and increasing 
service demands that we face. From the dramatic increase in 
threats against Members of Congress to increased staffing 
needs, recruitment and training demands, all of the United 
States Capitol Police organizational elements are being tested 
to keep up with this increased workload.
    Following the events of January 6, the Congress 
appropriated over $106 million in emergency supplemental 
funding. These funds were not only intended to provide 
desperately needed support for the department but to also 
address deficiencies and lay the foundation from which the USCP 
could begin to transform from a primarily policing organization 
into a protective agency.
    The emergency supplemental appropriation went toward the 
procurement of much needed safety equipment to include state-
of-the-art civil disturbance response equipment and 
reimbursement for critical State and local law enforcement 
assistance in meeting the department's mission across the 
country.
    It also provided the establishment of the reimbursable 
mutual aid agreements with local and State and Federal law 
enforcement partners to ensure that the Capitol Police has the 
capacity to respond to critical incidents within the Capitol 
complex. This authority has proved to be very valuable and has 
been utilized on several occasions so that the congressional 
community remains safe and can proceed with its business 
uninterrupted.
    The department's fiscal year 2023 budget request serves as 
a midpoint in this transformation process. In developing the 
fiscal year 2023 budget request, we considered the previous 
funding for various programmatic activities with the 
understanding that the inspector general's investigations into 
the challenges and failures leading up to January 6th remain 
ongoing and may lead to future resource requirement needs.
    The IG has submitted numerous flash reports, which include 
findings on policy, training, deployment, leadership, and 
staffing gaps that affected the department's preparedness and 
response to the events of January 6th. Additionally, select 
recommendations from General Honore's report commissioned by 
the United States House of Representatives were also reviewed 
and factored into the formulation of our budget request.
    In fact, as has been pointed out, this is the first budget 
that has been prepared since the IG reports have been 
completed. And many, if not most, of the requests that you will 
see in our fiscal year 2023 budget submission, are tied 
directly to the inspector general's recommendations.
    The fiscal year 2023 USCP budget request, therefore, is 
over $708 million, which is an increase of 17.5 percent over 
the fiscal year 2022 enacted levels. This includes budgetary 
authority and resources to fund 2,126 sworn officers and 567 
civilian positions. Specifically, this request is focused on 
nine areas that are critical to transform the department into a 
stronger protective agency.
    The nine areas of focus are, first, the normalization of 
staffing levels for post-COVID and post-January 6 environment. 
Our staffing levels pre-pandemic and pre-January 6 are, 
frankly, now inadequate and unsustainable in our ability to 
fulfill our mission moving forward.
    Number 2, enhancing the department's intelligence 
capabilities; three, expanding dignitary protection 
capabilities; four, expanding the capabilities to address 
threats, directions of interest towards Members, to enhance our 
cybersecurity, and to be able to do additional criminal 
investigations; five, expanding physical and technical security 
capabilities in support of securing the Capitol complex; six, 
enhancing major event planning and command and control and 
coordination; seven, enhancing response in special operations 
capabilities; eight, reengineering training capabilities to 
meet the recruit training, in-service training, physical 
skills, professional development, and leadership training; and 
nine, enhancing the support operations infrastructure in order 
to execute mission-oriented transformational activities.
    Additionally, in this budget, the department is seeking to 
fund the continued development and implementation of additional 
wellness and resiliency resources for our workforce.
    And, lastly, the fiscal year 2023 budget request includes 
the cost associated with the utilization of contracted security 
guards to address secondary security posts. This will allow our 
officers to be realigned to meet critical frontline security 
requirements, while additional, full-time personnel are 
recruited, hired, and trained.
    Mr. Chairman, the events of January 6th exposed critical 
deficiencies with operational planning, intelligence, staffing, 
and equipment. I recognize those issues have to be addressed, 
and that is the basis for our fiscal year 2023 request. My 
leadership team and I are focused on the transformational 
change needed to make the improvements in those areas both now 
and in the future.
    We thank the subcommittee for its support and guidance 
during this process and for its support with both the Emergency 
Security Supplemental Appropriations Act and the Consolidated 
Appropriations Act of 2022 and for its keen understanding of 
our mission and the required resources needed to deliver the 
services expected by the Congress in the future.
    Thank you again for this opportunity to appear before you, 
and I am pleased to answer any questions that you might have.
    [The information follows:]


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                      OUTSTANDING RECOMMENDATIONS

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Chief. I appreciate it.
    We are going to go right into questions, and I will begin 
and start the process here. As we think about the reopening, 
all I can think about here is the safety and security, you 
know, continuing to hear stories from Members on that day, 
stories from officers on that day, seeing footage from January 
6.
    So we know that there have been nearly a dozen reports, as 
you mentioned, offering 104 recommendations by the GAO and 
various other organizations on needed improvements and reform. 
So, as we move to reopen safely, I just have a couple of 
questions here.
    So 42 of the 104 recommendations that I mentioned have been 
closed. And, for those 62 recommendations that are not 
implemented, how does the fiscal year 2023 request address the 
additional resources or changes needed for the Capitol Police 
to close those additional recommendations? And can you provide 
a couple of examples for us of those outstanding 
recommendations, kind of at the top of your list as to your 
priorities?
    Chief Manger. So, as we prepared the budget document for 
the clerks, one of the things that I had my folks do was with 
each individual request, if it tied to an inspector general 
recommendation, to list that recommendation that it was tied 
to. So you will see many of the requests that we make are tied 
directly to one of the inspector general's recommendations.
    General Honore's report had a number of recommendations as 
well. We have notated those that are as a result of 
recommendations from the Honore report.
    So many, if not most, of the requests we are making come 
right from those recommendations. Some examples: additional 
training instructors, specialty equipment for the Civil 
Disturbance Unit, additional criminal specialists to enhance 
our data analytics related to Member protection, additional 
mountain bike officers, and an expansion of our K-9 program. 
These are just some of the examples. Some of them involve 
additional position requests. And, again, they are tied 
directly to the recommendations from the inspector general.

                        RECRUITMENT OF OFFICERS

    Mr. Ryan. So the increase in full-time officers, what is 
the timeline? Can you give us an idea? I know you have got to 
get training. You got to go recruiting. As we mentioned, there 
is difficulty recruiting cops all over the country. You are in 
a very unique situation here, competing with southern Maryland 
and northern Virginia. There is all kinds of issues you are 
dealing with. Give us an idea of your timeframe for a ramp-up 
and how this request fits into the ramp-up.
    Chief Manger. So, as I mentioned in my initial remarks, 
this--we are about halfway through from the--from January 6 to 
the present, we have made a lot of improvements. We have gotten 
a lot accomplished. We are about halfway done. I think we are 
in the midpoint of where we need to be. If we are able to get 
what we are requesting in the 2023 budget, that puts us another 
lap or two around the track.
    Mr. Ryan. What does that mean?
    Chief Manger. Well, I think we are--we will be just, in 
broad numbers, three quarters of the way there if we are able 
to get this done.
    And so, in terms of numbers, right now this budget request 
would put us around 2,140 officers, sworn officers. Right now, 
we have I think, 1,849 officers, if memory serves. So we are 
close to 300 below where we need to be. And some of those--now, 
not all of those--I am not asking for 300 additional positions 
because some of those positions are already authorized. We just 
haven't been able to fill them because we have gotten behind in 
attrition because FLETC being closed for nearly a year for 
COVID. That has put us behind the eight ball in terms of our 
staffing, but we are making progress.
    I have got about 130 officers in the pipeline in training 
right now. Some of them are--have--I just spoke with a group 
yesterday, a new class yesterday, second day on the job. I just 
spoke with them yesterday. We have got other folks that are 
getting ready to graduate the academy. But in the pipeline, 
somewhere in that pipeline we have got 130 officers in training 
right now.
    So this--and this goes to so many of the questions I am 
guessing that the committee has about reopening and, you know, 
when we will be ready to be able staff all the, you know, staff 
the CVC and all those sorts of things. We do have a phased 
reopening plan where we can staff, as we can staff these 
positions, we can get closer back to the way things were pre-
COVID. We have already begun. We are making progress already. 
We will be able to do more by Memorial Day, more by the end of 
the year.
    But it is--we are still--and I hope I am answering your 
question. I mean, we have still over 300 officers below where 
we are authorized. And eventually I think somewhere around 
between 2,300 and 2,400 officers is where I think we need to be 
5 years from now.
    So I hope that answers your question.
    Mr. Ryan. Yeah, that did.

                           OFFICER ATTRITION

    What is--as far as, you know, read stories and just kind of 
talking to the officers coming in and out of the buildings, 
people quitting, I mean, we are seeing this, again, across the 
country. How is that? What is the mood? Are people leaving 
still? Are cops leaving still? Are they looking for other work? 
Are they looking to get out of the profession entirely? How is 
that affecting the Capitol Police?
    Chief Manger. Well, as you know, that is a national trend. 
I would say to you that post-January 6, we saw our attrition 
rate nearly double. So, clearly, there were folks that 
rethought their, you know, rethought the job, rethought about 
whether they wanted to continue to work here, do this job, and 
more than double--about double what we normally see leave for 
the department through retirements and resignations.
    We have seen that scale back now. I think the retention 
bonus that we got, we were able to give, through your actions, 
has made a big difference.
    But the one thing that I have been very pleased is that, 
much like after 9/11, there was no problem from the military or 
from public safety in terms of recruiting. People wanted to 
serve their country. And there really has been--we--the one 
thing--while we have seen our attrition go up, while we had the 
issue with FLETC being closed for nearly a year, the fact is 
that there are still people that want to serve their country by 
being a Capitol Police officer. We have had more success and 
not seen the difficulty in recruiting folks to at least come in 
through the door.
    Now, look, we still only hire about--less than 10 percent 
of the people that apply to be Capitol Police officers actually 
meet our standards. But we have enough people interested in 
serving that we have not had a problem at least getting the 
applications to come in.
    Mr. Ryan. Okay.
    Chief Manger. My hope is that that continues and that we 
continue to be able to fill the classes that we have got 
scheduled so that we can get those staffing numbers up over the 
next year or two.

                              INTELLIGENCE

    Mr. Ryan. Just quick, one quick question here, because my 
time has expired. But I am the chairman. So I am going to take 
some liberties here.
    The intelligence issue, that was a key issue on January 6, 
where there was a bottleneck, and the information that the 
department had did not make its way down to the rank-and-file 
members. Can you talk to us about that issue, and has it been 
fix and to your standards?
    Chief Manger. The short answer to that question is, yes, we 
are making great progress. Through the supplemental, we were 
able to get a really great jump-start in terms of what we 
needed. This fiscal year 2023 budget, you will see additional 
requests related to intelligence and building up our 
capability. And, again, the supplemental got us halfway there. 
This budget is going to get us, you know, much further along, 
and so we have asked for additional positions.
    We are bringing on board a new director of intelligence. He 
comes from the NYPD. He was the director of intelligence 
analysis for the NYPD. He has a great deal of experience in the 
field, and we are very excited. He begins, I think, in the next 
week or two. And he certainly has a vision about what he would 
like to do, and we are trying to make sure that we give him the 
resources to enact that vision.
    The issues that we had before were gathering, analyzing, 
sharing, using intelligence, disseminating it among our own 
staff. Those issues have been fixed. I mean, we are doing a 
much better job at doing those kinds of things.
    So there is still more work to be done because part of 
making this transformation into a protection agency involves a 
robust intelligence capacity, not just in an intel unit but to 
have intelligence analysts who work for the United States 
Capitol Police in different task forces, over at the FBI, over 
at DHS, and in different, other divisions within the 
organization so that the information is getting disseminated 
and shared with all the people that need it and that it becomes 
part of our operational planning.
    Mr. Ryan. Great. We would probably love to meet him when he 
gets settled.
    Chief Manger. We will make sure that happens.
    Mr. Ryan. Just kind of meet and greet and hear his vision.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler.

                         ACCESS TO THE CAPITOL

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I am going to switch gears a little bit. We talked about 
this in my office. The Capitol has been closed about 2 years 
now, and a few days ago Capitol officials unveiled a proposal 
to reopen the complex. And, under the plan, we would still be 
months away from providing our constituents with full access to 
their Capitol.
    And, in January, General Walker--and we had this 
conversation as a committee or committee members, I believe--
cited COVID as kind of the dominant reason--and things looked a 
little different in January--but the dominant reason the 
Capitol complex was still closed while recent reports really 
talk about the constraints you have in terms of staffing and 
opening doors and being at the right stations.
    In either respect, since closing down, the goal of 
reopening, I think, should be another priority. It should be up 
there with some of these other things we have talked about. How 
was the decision to implement the phased reopening made, and 
who gave that direction? And, over the last couple of years, 
given the resources the department has been provided, how has 
the department been working to address the staffing shortages 
and security concerns in preparation?
    Chief Manger. So I will take responsibility. It was my 
decision to recommend to the leadership of the House that we do 
a phased reopening because we could--we don't have the staffing 
to be at all the posts where we were pre-pandemic.
    One of the reasons is we have more posts now than we had 
pre-pandemic because of a fair--a number of issues. We are 
staffing posts that didn't exist 2, 3 years ago.
    So I appreciate the willingness to and the understanding 
that we can open limited tours, you know, for now. But, again, 
you will see the CVC opened in a limited capacity hopefully by 
Memorial Day. By the end of the summer, my hope is we can do a 
little bit more.
    So, as we have the staffing, we want this facility opened 
as much as anybody. And I regret that we are the chokepoint; we 
are the problem in terms of getting it reopened fully. But I do 
think everybody is on board that they want to make sure that 
the safety and security of this campus is what it should be as 
we reopen.
    So we had, as I mentioned before, we are--we have multiple 
training classes in progress. We typically would do three, 
four, five a year. We are now doing over 12. Now I think this 
year we may end up doing 13.

                            CONTRACTED HELP

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Okay. I am going to switch gears a 
little bit because we talked a little bit about contracted help 
to supplement in some of these instances.
    Chief Manger. Yes.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Not to take over positions but to help 
with this process.
    I have seen reports that say about three quarters of the 
contracted security guards can't pass a basic background check. 
Is that--so has that delayed the rollout? And is it--how is the 
department--I mean, I have got to believe that there has got to 
be a security company that has got a better system. How is that 
being addressed?
    Chief Manger. So, when we first heard the number of the--
the first group, that we were having difficulty finding folks 
that could pass the background check, we decided to contract 
with additional firms. And we are having much better luck now 
in getting folks that can pass the background check because we 
didn't want this to delay things.
    So, if there was a delay, it was a matter of maybe a week 
or two. But we do have folks that have passed. When we get them 
on board, they are going to go through, I believe, about a week 
of training. And then they will be--we will be able to deploy 
them in the field. And I do think it is important to----
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. In noncritical positions.
    Chief Manger. Yes. The secondary posts, and this is a 
temporary solution.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. I understand that completely. And I 
think that makes sense, given the fact that we are over 300 
down from where we should be with regard to officers, and that 
is going to take some time to backfill.
    Earlier this month--this is a little bit of a transition--
GAO released a report raising concerns about officers training 
in preparation to respond to violent demonstrations and that 
senior leadership needed to--and this is a quote--better 
understand and address officers' morale issues and concerns 
with using force.
    How are you addressing that GAO list, those 
recommendations?
    Chief Manger. So it is a training issue. And everyone has--
is getting additional training. We have already started this. 
And, with regard to use of force, first and foremost, it is 
legal training because use of force has to be lawful. And so 
that is a big part of the training.
    But you add in de-escalation training, emphasis on 
communication skills. Frankly, if--the officers who have the 
best communication skills in terms of dealing with people have 
the--usually have the lowest uses of force.
    But we have got officers trained in cultural competence, 
duty to intervene. We have got less lethal training and more 
capacity and more training that is being done for the less 
lethal to better protect our officers.
    And one of the big things is, especially with civil 
disturbance and crowd control, is that we have--we are 
training--we are forming teams, CDU platoons, that will be 
teams that work together all the time. So you are working 
together with the same people all the time. They are training 
together. They are training with other agencies.
    But so I think all of this is going to help us in terms of 
dealing with those issues that you described.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you for that.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. The gentlelady from Connecticut, Ms. DeLauro.

                      INTELLIGENCE BUDGET REQUESTS

    The Chair. Thank you very, very much.
    And thank you for your testimony. And thank you for the 
great work that has been done since January 6 and the kind of 
rigor on the assessments of what we need and what we should be 
doing going forward, which was certainly so key to what we did 
in the supplemental, and now we move on.
    You did a chat about intelligence, and there is an 
increased request for intelligence funding in this budget. What 
drives those requests? And what are the new standards for 
sharing intelligence, asset coordination internally, as well as 
outside partners, if you could just spend a moment on that?
    Chief Manger. So I think what is driving it, is two things. 
I mean, one, as we prepare for demonstrations, it is good to 
have the intelligence that you need to make the proper 
operational plan. The plans that we make should be intelligence 
driven. They weren't always, and now they are. Obviously, the 
threats that we are getting not only against Members of 
Congress but against the Capitol itself, that is an important 
part where we are focusing a lot of energy.
    I am sorry. The second part of your question.
    The Chair. How are you sharing that information?
    Chief Manger. Oh, sharing information.
    The Chair. Because there was a very, very big problem----
    Chief Manger. Yes.
    The Chair [continuing]. That we dealt with on January 6.
    Chief Manger. So and the--part of it, when we do the 
operational planning, we have an incident action plan. And in 
there we make sure that everybody who has got a leadership 
role, everybody who is in charge of whatever aspect of the 
plan, we make sure that they know everything about the plan, 
not just--they don't just know about their little sliver of the 
pie. They know everything that is going on.
    We have also issued cellphones to every one of our 
officers. So now that information, the intelligence information 
is delivered every day to all of our personnel. So, if we get a 
report about, you know, someone who is, you know, they see an 
individual walking along Independence Avenue and it appears the 
individual has a gun, that information goes out in real time. 
It goes out to every one of our officers so that they are aware 
of this lookout.
    So it is not only sharing the information with the folks 
that are doing the operational planning, but it is sharing it 
with everybody in the organization as well.
    The Chair. And it is sharing with, you know, district 
police department.
    Chief Manger. That is why we have task force officers in 
seven different organizations, including Metropolitan Police 
and other law enforcement organizations that have an intel 
component. So, yes, we are there with them.
    The Chair. That is great because you know that was a 
serious issue on January 6th.
    Chief Manger. Yes.

                           REALISTIC TRAINING

    The Chair. A couple more questions.
    The GAO report that has been referred to talked about 
Capitol police officers wanting more realistic training. And I 
guess it is a double-edged sword on that with, you know, 
providing that kind of training. What are we doing in terms of 
that realistic training in the complex, et cetera? And I guess 
that drives overtime. But tell me, you know, what we are trying 
to do to address that issue that--in my conversations, they 
talked about realistic training.
    Chief Manger. Yes. Two things. One, we are actually 
training with other agencies. So, when we ask for other 
agencies to come in and help us, we are actually training with 
them. So we are doing that.
    In addition, we have now got, I think, four virtual 
training systems that we are going to have one at the Capitol, 
one in our academy, one at the Fairchild Building. And there is 
another one that I am sure somebody will whisper it in my ear.
    So we have four of these machines that provide amazing 
training, and it is not just use-of-force training. It is de-
escalation training. It is a host of things that you can do in 
a virtual atmosphere, which is much more realistic than just 
sitting in a classroom and hearing about it.

                             MEMBER SAFETY

    The Chair. Okay. Thank you.
    Just a final question, if I can.
    We talked about the 10,000 threats more than double the 
number of threats in 2017.
    What are we doing--and we hear this from Members all of the 
time on both sides of the aisle--to ensure Members' safety when 
they are not in the Capitol, where we do have now increased 
protection and support provided by the Capitol Police? Does 
your budget request account for needs related to the Member and 
staff security in the district?
    Chief Manger. Yes. We provide--and all you have to do is 
request it. You can request it through the Sergeant at Arms or 
just request it directly from us, and we will provide security 
recommendations. We can do a security assessment of your home 
offices, make recommendations. We will also coordinate with the 
local police and sheriff's departments in an individual's home 
office to ensure that they are aware of the needs. They can be 
aware of any threats or individuals that we are concerned 
about.
    All that information can be shared with local law 
enforcement. But we can do--we will, in fact, do assessments 
of, whether it is a local office, whether it is someone's 
residence, we provide those services. And we will be able to do 
that even better with more capacity because there is more of a 
demand now for that kind of service. So this will assist us in 
making sure that we can achieve or meet the workload, meet the 
work demand that we have.
    The Chair. Thank you.
    And I know my time has run out, and I know something that 
the chair has been interested in, and this is Member security 
in their residence. So I am hopeful that we can continue that 
conversation and look to see what--how we can deal with that 
issue as well. I know it is uppermost in the minds of the 
Members of Congress, their family, their security, their 
family's security.
    So thank you so much.
    And thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. DeLauro.
    The gentleman from Nevada, Mr. Amodei.

                         CAPITOL INFRASTRUCTURE

    Mr. Amodei. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    And first of all----
    Mr. Ryan. I didn't see you. I literally thought you were 
going to pop up on the screen. Sorry.
    Mr. Amodei. Well, I probably was until I found out we have 
all of this new square footage compared to the old days. This 
is kind of posh, and thank you for your leadership.
    Mr. Ryan. We are moving on up. We are moving on up.
    Mr. Amodei. And, Chief, if I was--I was going to be kind of 
mean, I would use part of my time to ask the chairman if he 
could pronounce Gus' last name, but since I will just confess, 
I don't, so he is Gus P. We will skip from that.
    I want to thank you for taking some time the other day to 
come by and talk about your stuff, and I am not a guy who 
believes that money is the answer to every issue. But, quite 
frankly, I think I have been here long enough to know that 
prior to the 6th, you know, we were kind of doing things the 
way we were and whatever. It is like it is obviously time for a 
change, and I think that that is going to require some 
resources. So thank you for the work you have done to basically 
on numerous fronts to kind of identify that and where we start 
and see how that goes. I appreciate that.
    I also want to highlight for you that, since we are doing 
this and the precipitating factor was January 6, I would like 
to encourage you--and I know this isn't all your area. The 
Architect of the Capitol has a piece of it, and the Sergeant at 
Arms has a piece of it. But to--when you are looking at how we 
do a better job, especially on campus, although the thoughts 
about security for Members when they are off campus are pretty 
poignant, but especially on campus stuff, you know, it is, 
like, hey, there is some indication just in our routine stuff, 
it is, like, well, that is kind of always the way we did it.
    And I am thinking specifically about how you come and go 
from the buildings that our offices are in as one of those 
areas that you and I have discussed to please take a leadership 
role with your other folks on the board and, you know, say, 
hey, while we are doing this and we are looking at technology 
and we are looking at are they staffed appropriately, do you 
need sworn officers to do that, or don't you--obviously, your 
workforce is an issue, but I have a ton of confidence in the 
Architect's ability, if there are different ways to do things, 
not to ruin the historical integrity of the facilities, this 
building, obviously, the Capitol, stuff like, that make that 
stuff blend. And I don't think that we have fully explored 
that.
    So I am hoping that you can be a champion as one of the new 
guys ton block to revisit that both in terms of what an 
appropriately trained workforce needs to be in those areas, who 
you need in those areas, and, oh, by the way, where can we get 
some benefits for everybody involved with technology so that we 
avoid things which, I mean, we have been doing them for that 
way a long time.
    Today is an example. People are coming back to the Capitol, 
and they are in the buildings. And when we talk about security 
and safety and I see large groups of people queued outside of 
buildings, I think for bad people, that can represent a target. 
And it puts your people in danger, and it puts everybody in 
danger.
    And so not that it is--but I just sit there and go, you 
know, that has been going on for a long time. So it is my hope 
that, as the new chief law enforcement officer on campus, that 
you can take the opportunity of the reset on this to see if 
there is a way that we can do these better.
    And I will give you one other thing on the record for your 
colleagues. I know someday we are going to build a visitor 
center in a parking lot somewhere. But, quite frankly, that is 
unpersuasive when we have so many needs that compete for 
resources and things like that.
    So, in my mind, to your colleagues on the board, that is 
not much of an answer. And so--and maybe it is, whatever. But I 
would just encourage to you be a leader in that, and we will 
look forward to getting with you offline and working through 
any other issues and if we have any other questions.
    And, with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. I thank the gentleman.
    The distinguished gentlelady from Massachusetts, Ms. Clark.

                              RECRUITMENT

    Ms. Clark. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And, Chief Manger, thank you for joining us. And really I 
share in the gratitude my colleagues have expressed for the 
work of the Capitol Police, and I think your word was 
appropriate. The circumstances and challenges are relentless, 
and you meet them with hard work and dedication, and we could 
not function without you. So we are very, very grateful.
    I was going to ask you about recruitment. I am delighted to 
hear that that is one problem you don't seem to be having. And 
I wonder if you are participating in any particular programs or 
associating with groups to help diversity within the hiring.
    Chief Manger. Yes. First of all, we have contracted with a 
search firm that is helping us recruit because I don't want to 
take any chances. I want to make sure that that is not the--
doesn't become an issue for us.
    But, more importantly, we have--we are very pleased to have 
hired a chief diversity officer that came on board about 2 or 3 
weeks ago. Vilma Alejandro has already hit the ground running 
and is ensuring that we are--that our practice, our hiring 
practices, recruitment practices are exactly where they need to 
be. And so I am very pleased with the work that she has done 
already and have high hopes that she is going make a real 
impact for us.
    Ms. Clark. That is great. Thank you.
    And I know we had talked previously about some of the new 
vetting and background programs that you were putting in place, 
and I know some of this is under the Sergeant at Arms. Can you 
give me a little update on where we are in that process?
    Chief Manger. So I--now is that with regard to----
    Ms. Clark. For the officers.
    Chief Manger. Oh.
    Ms. Clark. I know we had talked about before making sure 
that our officers are safe and that there are background checks 
going into the Capitol Police you are looking to hire.
    Chief Manger. Yes. We have very high standards that we 
maintain, which is one of the reasons that we have to get so 
many people through the door to apply, because we are very 
selective.
    One of things that we are doing differently than we did 
years ago was doing a deep dive in someone's social media 
because you can learn a lot about a person and if there are 
issues by looking at some of that information. We used to send 
people----
    Ms. Clark. I remind my children of this daily
    Chief Manger. Yes.
    You know, we used to send people to--you knocked on the 
neighbor's door and said: Do you know, you know, this 
individual? They have applied to become a Capitol Police 
officer. What do you think?
    And you would get the neighbors, you know, would say: Oh, 
yeah, seems like a nice kid or whatever.
    But this, I think, is a better way to, in fact, do the 
vetting that we need to do to make sure that we have somebody 
who has the integrity, the character, and, frankly, the 
character traits that we are looking for that we believe makes 
a good police officer.
    Ms. Clark. Thank you.

                            SUPPORT SERVICES

    What steps are you taking to either expand or build on the 
wraparound support services that you put in place for officers 
after January 6?
    Chief Manger. I appreciate you asking that question because 
this is tremendously important.
    Two goals that we have in mind. One is we want to focus on 
helping employees cope with just the daily stress of life, the 
daily stress of being a police officer. But we also want to 
provide services to our employees that have been through a 
crisis, been through a traumatic event, and provide that 
treatment and, you know, because they have been through a 
traumatic incident, to help build their resiliency. So those 
are the two things we are trying to accomplish.
    We are doing it in a number of ways. One, we have 
contracted with the Center for Mind-Body Medicine and that--we 
have a number of folks going through that program now. And, in 
fact, I appreciate the FOP chairman, Gus Papathanasiou. He is 
going through it with a number of his shop stewards to really 
give us a good evaluation of the program, and so I appreciate 
that.
    We also are standing up our own health and wellness center, 
and we have named that after Officer Howard Liebengood who we 
lost just after January 6. It is a center for wellness. It will 
include employee assistance, health, nutrition, fitness, 
trauma-informed care specialists, peer support, building 
resiliency and work-life balance, the support dog program--that 
is probably the most popular thing is the support dog--three 
fitness centers, a chaplain program.
    So the Liebengood Center, we are working closely with 
Howie's wife in terms of the opening. We are in the process of 
hiring a director for that center, and Mrs. Liebengood would 
like us to get that person on board before we make the formal 
opening. We actually are already producing services. We just 
haven't done the formal opening of the Liebengood Center. That 
should be coming very soon, but we want to get the director on 
board for that.
    Ms. Clark. That is wonderful.
    Thank you very much.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Clark.
    The distinguished gentleman from Hawaii, Mr. Case.

                       RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION

    Mr. Case. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chief, I wanted to follow up on the chair's questions along 
the lines of recruitment and retention, because I think the 
basic question is whether you are getting to where you need to 
be on your staffing and whether you have the funding in this 
budget or others to get there.
    And I don't want to--I don't want the--I don't want there 
to be an artificial limitation on your request along those 
lines. I just want to understand exactly what the situation is 
so we can determine, you know, whether the funding is adequate.
    So you said earlier--I just made a couple of comments. You 
said earlier you need about 1,849 officers.
    Chief Manger. That is what we have now.
    Mr. Case. Oh, I am sorry.
    Chief Manger. Yes.
    Mr. Case. Okay. I am sorry. 1,849 now, 300 short of where 
you think you need to be. And where you think you need to be is 
based on all of the reports, all of the, you know, post-January 
6 analysis; you think you need to be 300 more than what you 
have today.
    Chief Manger. That is correct.
    Mr. Case. Okay. And you said you have 130 officers in the 
pipeline, which obviously means you have a number of officers 
that are not in the pipeline.
    And, you know, you, although you feel comfortable on the 
recruitment side of things, that obviously depends on your 
attrition rate as well. And, you know, you said your attrition 
was lower than it was or than what you expected. But what 
actually is it? And the question I am asking is: How is this 
pipeline working? How fast is it going? Is the pipeline 
producing an increase in officers or a reduction and on what 
timeframe?
    Chief Manger. That is a good question. The--our typical 
attrition--and I am not--let's remove the year January 6 and 
the following year because it was double what it normally was. 
Normally 75 to 80 people will leave the department each year 
either because they are retiring, because they resign, you 
know. A couple get fired. But around--between 75 and 80 a year 
will leave.
    So what we are trying do is to increase the number of folks 
that we are hiring more than what we used to in a typical year. 
Again, in a typical year, we hired 120 people or so. Now we are 
looking to hire well over 200 people. We could get as high as 
280 but certainly over 200 people a year. This gets us ahead of 
attrition.
    And I think our attrition is going to go--start going back 
to normal because of the things that were in the supplemental, 
the hazard pay, the specialty pay, the retention bonus. Those 
are things that I think are keeping officers here.
    So I believe at this point we are, in fact, getting ahead 
of attrition. But we have got a ways to go before we get up to 
where we need to be.
    Mr. Case. Okay. So I am just breaking that down. So you are 
losing in a normal year, you said, about 70.
    Chief Manger. 75 to 80, yes.
    Mr. Case. Is that--are you ahead of that? Behind that? 
Where are you right now this last year just to take a snapshot?
    Chief Manger. Well, if you take the past--see, last year, 
the year from January 6, 2001, to January 6, 2022--I am sorry--
2021 to 2022, we lost 140, 150 people.
    Mr. Case. Okay.
    Chief Manger. So that was not a normal year.
    Mr. Case. All right.
    Chief Manger. This year I believe we are beginning to get 
ahead of attrition. And I think that, unless--I mean, my hope 
is that, with everything we put into place, with everything we 
have been able to put through into place because of the 
decisions by this subcommittee, we will be able to get ahead of 
attrition. I think we have slowed it down back to normal, and 
we have increased the hiring. So that----
    Mr. Case. Are you ahead of attrition today or----
    Chief Case. Today, yes.
    Mr. Case [continuing]. Hope to get ahead of it?
    Chief Manger. No, I believe we are. Right, today, if I look 
at, you know, beginning of this fiscal year, we are--we are 
ahead of attrition.
    Mr. Case. Okay. I guess then the question is: How far ahead 
are you, and how fast then--what is that rate? And how quickly 
does that get you to full complement of officers? And do you 
have the resources you need to successfully compete on both the 
recruitment and the retention side? Even though you are better 
on both recruitment and retention, is that enough?
    Because if I am looking at that time budget numbers, I 
mean, basically you are asking for a 17.5-percent increase over 
fiscal year 2022. Right? So that is pretty recent, and we 
plussed up there. But of that 17 percent, the rate at salaries 
and benefits is 11 percent. So you are allocating more of that 
increase to nonsalaries and benefits, which may well be what we 
need to do.
    But then I question, well, are we doing enough on the 
salaries and benefit side to get to your--to get to your full 
complement? And if you look at it over 2 years, you see it 
about 23 percent, fiscal year 2021, actual to your proposed 
increase for salaries and benefits; 40 percent overall. So the 
trend on both sides is that the increases are going more to 
nonsalaries and benefits than the salaries and benefits.
    And to the ranking member's question, you know, you 
recommended a phased opening because of shortages in the force. 
And so I just--it is an open question in my mind, like, are we 
doing enough to get you to a full complement fast enough to 
achieve everything we want?
    Chief Manger. I am trying to keep--you have four questions 
you asked me. We are getting ahead. I said we are ahead of 
attrition. We are getting ahead of attrition this year. It is 
still early. We have put more people in the pipeline than we 
have lost. So that is where I base my decision we are getting 
ahead of attrition.
    One of the problems that caused the folks to leave here is 
the fact that we were burning our officers out. We didn't have 
enough cops, and we are holding them over constantly, canceling 
days off, making them--forcing them to work overtime. I have 
been a cop 43 years. Cops like overtime, but they also like to 
know they are going to have a day off once in a while, like, to 
spend time with their families. And we were burning them out 
because we were so short, and the demands had increased so 
exponentially.
    So, when you see that not--the, you know, much of our 
percentage of increase is not related to salaries and benefits 
and that sort of thing, it is because we have to get more 
people. That is the only way I am going to solve--one of the 
big ways I am going to solve the attrition problem because cops 
here think: Look, we didn't have enough people. When things go 
bad, all it means is I don't get a day off, I have to work 
over. I have to work double shifts.
    Again, they like that to a certain level, but then it gets 
to point where they are burnt out. And so we have to get more 
people so we can manage that--manage the overtime and make sure 
we have enough people when we have a big event that they feel 
confident, okay, we have enough people and the event is going 
to go okay. I am trying to work on both things at the same 
time.
    Do I think we are--it is going to take us a couple of 
years. It could--I hope it is just a couple of years to get us 
where we need to be because it takes so long to hire--to 
recruit, hire, and train somebody to the point where you can 
actually send them out on their own. A training process is 
better part of a year. So all this takes a while. That is why 
we are doing all these things simultaneously.
    Mr. Case. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Case.
    The gentlelady from Virginia, Ms. Wexton.
    Ms. Wexton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, and 
thank you, Chief Manger, for joining us here today. It is great 
to see you. I grew up in the DC/Metro area, so I feel like I 
have seen you on my TV for like 20, 30 years now. Good to have 
you here on the Capitol Police.
    Chief Manger. Thank you for saying I didn't speak to your 
kindergarten class because I have had that happen before too. 
But thank you.

                     LINE OF DUTY DEATH DESIGNATION

    Ms. Wexton. I appreciate your coming out of retirement to 
help us here. I think that you are doing a great job at setting 
the department up for the next level, you know, of what we are 
facing in today's world. So I want to thank you for that.
    I also want to thank you for talking about Howie 
Liebengood, who was my constituent, and about the center that 
is opening. I am overjoyed that those resources were included 
in the security supplemental, that you guys are taking it 
seriously and really working to make that happen.
    But you probably saw in the news that the D.C. Police and 
Firefighters Retirement and Relief Board declared Jeffrey 
Smith's death to be a line-of-duty death. You did see that, 
correct?
    Chief Manger. Yes.
    Ms. Wexton. It is my understanding that Serena Liebengood 
and his family are seeking a line-of-duty death designation 
with DOJ for Howie. Is that correct?
    Chief Manger. Yes, it is. In fact, we helped her with the 
paperwork.
    Ms. Wexton. Okay. Very good.
    And has the Capitol Police taken a position on what DOJ 
should do with that?
    Chief Manger. Not yet.
    Ms. Wexton. Do you anticipate that you will?
    Chief Manger. When the time comes that it is appropriate to 
do so, we will.
    Ms. Wexton. Okay. Thank you.
    I am not going to put you on the spot and ask you what that 
position will be, but I certainly hope that you guys do the 
right thing for the Liebengood family because for them it is 
not about money, it is not about stuff; it is about the 
acknowledgment that Howie would still be with us were he not 
defending the Capitol on January 6th. So, hopefully, you will 
do the right thing.

                                TRAINING

    Now, following up on Mr. Case's questions about training 
and about making sure we have the officers in the pipeline.
    You had told me in our phone conversation that--I think you 
said that there are 13 classes at FLETC right now, or is that--
--
    Chief Manger. Not right now. We will have 13 classes 
throughout this fiscal year, yes
    Ms. Wexton. That is an awful lot to be graduating from 
FLETC.
    Do you anticipate that they can keep up that pace of 
training classes like until we get to where we need to be?
    Chief Manger. Yes. Our training folks have ensured that 
they--we have the seats available that we need.
    Ms. Wexton. Okay. Very good.

                           LIEBENGOOD CENTER

    Back to the Howie Liebengood Center. Do you have any--
believe me, I have represented a jurisdiction that is going to 
be getting phase 2 of the Silver Line of Metro here for long 
enough time that I know that people don't like to give me dates 
that things are going to open, but do you have some 
anticipation of when the center, the bricks-and-mortar center 
will open?
    Chief Manger. Yeah. Soon. I mean, it is there. Actually, 
the offices are--the suite of offices that will be the center 
are operating already. We just--talking to Mrs. Liebengood, she 
would like--we are working with her, and her wish--I hope I am 
speaking--saying this accurately, but she wants it to be--when 
we do the ribbon cutting, she wants everything to be in place, 
including the director. And we are in the process of hiring one 
now. My hope is that we are talking about weeks and not months. 
So it is soon I hope.
    Ms. Wexton. Very good.
    Chief Manger. That is our intention.
    Ms. Wexton. Thank you. Thank you.

                       OFFICER SUPPORT RESOURCES

    And what is being done to inform the Police Department to 
inform the officers about what resources are available and 
encourage them to take advantage of them?
    Chief Manger. So here are 39 bulletins that we put out 
electronically and we post for our officers. All 39 of these 
bulletins over the past year have to do with wellness, health 
and wellness initiatives that the department is making 
available to our officers. So 39 bulletins that we put out over 
the past year, making sure folks know what we have available.
    Ms. Wexton. Very good. And encouraging them to partake of 
these services as well?
    Chief Manger. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Wexton. Very good.

                             CROWD CONTROL

    Now, a couple of the members here asked about the trainings 
that you have and the fact that this GAO report indicated that 
a lot of officers didn't feel like they were particularly well-
trained in certain areas, in particular with regard to crowd 
control, I guess.
    And it is my understanding, you had said that you--you guys 
had enhanced the training for crowd control. But that was 
mainly concentrated in the Civil Disturbance----
    Chief Manger [continuing]. Correct.
    Ms. Wexton. What steps are being taken to ensure other 
officers are getting the training they need for crowd control?
    Chief Manger. So everyone gets what we call crowd 
management training, and that--you know, the Civil Disturbance 
folks get, you know, when folks are crossing the line in terms 
of their demonstration activity, you know, has--where they have 
crossed the line, that they are doing something against the 
law. But crowd management training is being given to all of our 
officers.
    Ms. Wexton. Are you able to use that immersive artificial 
intelligence, you know, system that you have in order to give 
that crowd control training?
    Chief Manger. Yeah. I mean, this is a very--this has great 
capability. So, yes, I think that--being able to--because you 
stand in front of a screen where you are talking to different 
people, and depending on what happens, your response, they can 
change the scenario or change a response to the person you are 
dealing with. So it is very realistic training, and you can do 
it in dozens and dozens of settings.
    Ms. Wexton. Thank you.
    I see my time has expired, so I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Wexton.
    Next in batting cleanup for the committee is the 
distinguished gentleman from New York, Mr. Espaillat.
    Mr. Espaillat. I thought I was closer. But okay.
    Thank you, Chief. Thank you for your efforts to make us 
safe right now.
    Many experts have asserted that a potential second attack, 
God forbid, against the Capitol will be different than the 
first one, just like an angry, racist mob. In fact, the April 
2nd attack that led to the death of Officer William Evans was a 
different one, and we sort of like couldn't prevent that from 
happening.
    And I see that, given what is happening in Ukraine and the 
fear of cyber attacks against our country, I see that you have 
included in your budget of $5 million to address threats and 
expand cyber security capabilities of your department.
    How safe are we in that department, if you may, from cyber 
attacks, and what does the $5 million do? That is the first 
question.
    The second question is that the K-9 unit has been increased 
or has been included in the budget or would cost over $2.5 
million to expand the capability, and we know two of our--both 
the DNC and RNC were in clear danger as pipe bombs were placed 
near just like a block away from here.
    How much does that increase sweeps, and what does that mean 
in terms of security?

                         K-9/CYBER ENHANCEMENTS

    Chief Manger. So, I will answer the K-9 question first. We 
have increased a number of sweeps that we do daily. In fact, 
multiple times a day that we are doing sweeps, and we have 
increased the locations where we do them.
    Mr. Espaillat. By how much?
    Chief Manger. I will have to get back to you with that, but 
I know it is significantly. And one of the things we want to do 
is be able to sustain that and be able to do all the locations. 
You know, we can't just focus on the Capitol without focusing 
on the office buildings as well, and we have the Library of 
Congress and the Botanic Garden. So we want to make sure weare 
giving everybody good service in terms of the multiple sweeps a 
day.
    With regard to the cyber, how safe are we, I will tell you 
that if--I get briefings from the FBI fairly regularly, and it 
is one of the biggest concerns that the FBI has is cyber 
attacks, and that has increased in the past month.
    I always feel like we are staying one step ahead of the bad 
guy. And occasionally the bad guy, you know, does something 
that we didn't anticipate. So much of the effort is focused on 
ensuring education for everybody that works in this complex to 
be able to identify an attack. And then also a fair amount of 
technology is being put--used to prevent attacks that we know 
about, or that we have seen around the world. So that is 
basically where we are focusing our efforts.
    Mr. Espaillat. And how could you work, or is it necessary 
for Capitol Police to work with our staff, with our teams, to 
ensure that we are--that my database is untouched and 
protected?
    Chief Manger. That is a team effort between the Sergeant at 
Arms' offices and the Capitol Police. But, again, we get--the 
real experts--and I guess the best information we get typically 
is from Homeland Security and the FBI. But what we need to do 
is make sure that we--especially if there is specific 
information that people could take precautions or be aware of 
specific attacks, we have to make sure that we get that out to 
all of the employees, the staff, everybody on the campus.
    Mr. Espaillat. Mr. Chairman, before my time is up, I just 
want to share with you, I still have this gut feeling, eerie 
feeling, when I walk out of the Capitol, when I walk down the 
steps of the Capitol after voting that we are just still wide 
open and susceptible to an attack. Yes.
    Chief Manger. Can I react, if I might? Because you are not 
alone in that sense. I think it will take some time, but one of 
the things that we would like to do, the Capitol Police want to 
do, is restore that sense of safety that people had on this 
campus. Look, you know, you could have a lone actor do 
something anytime, anywhere in our country, but for many, many 
years, this was--people did have a better sense of safety on 
this campus than they have today. And it will take some time, 
but my intention is to restore that sense of safety that people 
have.
    Mr. Espaillat. I just mean that because when I am walking 
around the campus, I see runners coming through. I see people 
walking through. Like, they just get right in. I just think we 
are wide open.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

                    Closing Remarks of Chairman Ryan

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Espaillat.
    Chief, thank you. A lot of kudos to the men and women who 
served here on January 6, and I just wanted to note that there 
will be a plaque hanging in the west front of the U.S. Capitol 
honoring the officers and the agencies that were there that day 
protecting us.
    And Ms. Herrera Beutler was a big part of making that 
happen, and it was a bipartisan effort. But I think it is 
important that we honor the people who were there that day 
showing a tremendous amount of courage.
    And I just want to say I am really proud of the committee 
here because you saw the scope and the depth of questioning on 
all of these issues that are just critically important. And we 
want you to know that you and your relationship with Gus and 
the union is really important, and your relationship with us is 
very important as the appropriators. And we recognize the 
significant lift here to try to get us where we need to be. I 
think when you are talking about training and getting officers 
on-boarded, it is like, yeah, there is no magic wand here that 
we could just wave, and all of a sudden, there is 300 new 
officers. This is clearly a process.
    And we want you to know that we are partners with you on 
this. We appreciate your leadership. These are very difficult 
times, and we have to be united as we move forward to try to do 
this. You know, the American people want to get back here. The 
schools want to get back here. The tours want to get back here. 
And I think, given everything going on in the world, I think we 
have to do everything we can to make sure people can come and 
be reminded of how important America is and how important this 
Capitol is.
    We can't thank you enough. I appreciate your focus, as you 
know, on the wellness piece, and I am really glad to see this 
is moving forward in such a significant way. You know, the 
trauma, just life in general, let alone you are a cop and let 
alone you are cop in the U.S. Capitol and a cop that had to 
kind of work through January 6.
    So we want to make sure that part of the retention is that, 
you know, we care about how people feel and the traumas they 
are dealing with. So I appreciate you giving that some effort.
    We do want to, I think, at some point connect you with 
House Wellness Program, and Bryan Weiss is doing a great job 
and we have been standing that up through this committee the 
last few years. And basically it is--and I think you are moving 
in that direction too. It is almost like a buffet of services, 
from financial to nutrition to diet to the different practices 
and techniques that people can use to really deal with the 
trauma and just kind of--you know, life is crazy now for 
everybody. So we appreciate you doing that, and that is of 
significant interest to this committee. We appreciate 
everything that you are doing. Please say thanks to your team, 
that we appreciate it. And we are going to look very closely--I 
am sorry.
    I yield an unlimited amount of time to my partner here.

                         RANKING MEMBER REMARKS

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. I am sorry. I agree with so much of 
what the chairman said. And I just want to echo and ditto those 
statements, except I can't say Gus' last name.
    I did want to mention on the plaque, it is a very small 
thing. But my hope is that, years and years from now, when 
tours come through this Capitol, that that will be a stop on 
those tours. And what the children of tomorrow are told was 
that was one of many dark days in our Nation's history, and we 
overcame, and here are the men and women who made sure those 
people failed.
    I know we are years from that, but that is something I 
believe will happen, and I am very excited that the names of 
the officers are on there because they really did, I think--we 
will never know fully their sacrifice and those around the 
Capitol as well, but that is more to me a symbol of the failure 
of those who are against democracy.
    So thank you for that.
    Chief Manger. Thank you, all, for--I appreciate your kind 
words, and I will pass them along to my officers.
    Mr. Ryan. Great. Thank you. Appreciate it.
    Until next time, hearing is adjourned.

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                                            Tuesday, April 5, 2022.

                    GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE

                               WITNESSES

THE HON. GENE L. DODARO, COMPTROLLER GENERAL OF THE U.S., GOVERNMENT 
    ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE ORICE WILLIAMS BROWN, CHIEF OPERATING 
    OFFICER, GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE

                   Opening Statement of Chairman Ryan

    Mr. Ryan. The committee will come to order. This hearing is 
fully virtual, so we need to address a few of the housekeeping 
matters. Members are responsible for muting and unmuting 
themselves. For the purposes of eliminating inadvertent 
background noise, the chair or staff designated by the chair 
may mute participants' microphones when they are not under 
recognition. If I notice when you are recognized that you have 
not unmuted yourself, I will ask if you would like the staff to 
unmute you. If you indicate approval by nodding, staff will 
unmute your microphone.
    We will begin with the chair and ranking member. Then 
members present at the time the hearing is called to order will 
be recognized in order of seniority.
    We are using the 5-minute clock, which you will notice on 
your screen. It will show how much time is remaining. If there 
is a technology issue, we will move to the next member until 
the issue is resolved. And if you wish to add any extraneous or 
additional material to the record. Per House rules, we have set 
up an email address where members can send anything they wish 
to submit for the record after seeking recognition for its 
inclusion. That email address has been provided in advance to 
your staff.
    I would like to welcome the Comptroller General of the 
Government Accountability Office, Mr. Gene Dodaro, to present 
the GAO's fiscal year 2023 budget request.
    Mr. Dodaro, we welcome you back to our subcommittee. The 
subcommittee has great admiration for you personally and GAO's 
work in ferreting out misconduct and finding ways to save 
billions of dollars with public, fact-based, nonpartisan 
recommendations to improve Federal agency operations and save 
taxpayers billions of dollars.
    The GAO has been a tremendous resource to Congress, 
especially this past year in researching and providing 
recommendations after the attack on January 6. The GAO has 
worked hard to respond to inquiries, conduct oversight, and 
provide valuable recommendations to the United States Capitol 
Police, Architect of the Capitol, and others in response to the 
attacks.
    GAO published numerous flash reports providing invaluable 
insight toward reform and security upgrades. We want to thank 
you and your team for GAO's recommendations and technical 
assistance to the committee on ways that the Congress can 
strengthen and reassert its power of the purse over 
appropriations.
    The GAO's proposals to reinforce Congress' constitutional 
power of the purse, GAO recommended requiring the Office of 
Management and Budget to publicly post all apportionments of 
executive branch appropriations as a way to improve 
congressional oversight and facilitate GAO providing more 
timely advice and legal decisions to Congress.
    We strongly believe in these goals, and we are pleased to 
report that the Fiscal Year 2022 Consolidated Appropriations 
Act enacted a new requirement for OMB to make apportionments of 
appropriations publicly available, consistent with GAO's 
recommendation. We look forward to OMB's timely implementation 
of this provision.
    This year, GAO is requesting an increase of $91 million in 
appropriated funds over what was provided in fiscal year 2022, 
as well as 3,500 full-time equivalents, or FTEs, in fiscal year 
2023. Included in this increase is $25 million in no-year funds 
to meet the congressional directives and report requests of the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. We look forward to 
hearing your testimony today and justification for these 
significant increases.
    At this point, I would like to yield to my colleague and 
friend, Ms. Herrera Beutler, our ranking member, for any 
opening statements that she would like to make.

          Opening Statement of Ranking Member Herrera Beutler

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And, Mr. Dodaro, I have only had like four cups of coffee 
today already--welcome back. It is very good to see you.
    The Government Accountability Office supports Congress in 
meeting our constitutional responsibility by ensuring that the 
money that we appropriate is spent for the purpose it was 
prescribed. And, interestingly, we have seen challenges to that 
in the last number, at least since my time in Congress, so your 
work is doubly important. And, honestly, this benefits American 
people by improving the performance of their funds and the 
accountability to the Federal Government.
    With products such as 1,602 new recommendations, 578 
reports, and over 60 congressional testimonies last year alone, 
your agency is meeting its strategic objective in providing 
quality, timely service to Congress, and another important tool 
that GAO is constructing is a framework for managing improper 
payments. And most individuals or families or businesses who 
hear that would probably be like, wait, what, that is not 
already in place? Well, thank you to GAO we are moving in that 
direction.
    And, for fiscal 2021, the Office of Management and budget 
reported that the Federal agencies had estimated about $281 
billion in improper payments. The economic instability and 
increased flow of Federal funds associated with COVID-19--and 
this is a significant increased flow of funds, at a very--in a 
very clipped pace--have greatly increased the opportunities for 
fraud, making that framework for managing improper payments 
really essential to our Nation's financial management.
    It is also really great to see a wide range of work being 
done by the new Science, Technology Assessment, and Analytics 
Unit, from the framework for oversight of artificial 
intelligence, questions for policymakers to consider regarding 
long COVID, and identifying opportunities and challenges to 
counter drone technology. So this unit will provide Congress 
valuable insights into emerging technologies and policy 
recommendations to harness the benefits and mitigate some of 
the risks with those emerging technologies.
    Your fiscal 2023 budget request continues to build staff 
capacity and audit resources, modernize IT systems, and address 
building infrastructure deficiencies. I look forward to hearing 
how these resources will further improve GAO's work.
    And, with that, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.

                     CHAIRMAN OUTLINES PROCEEDINGS

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Herrera Beutler.
    I don't believe that Ms. DeLauro is here or Ms. Granger.
    So, without objection, your written testimony will be made 
part of the record. Mr. Dodaro, please summarize your statement 
for the members of the committee. Once you have finished your 
statement, we will move to the question-and-answer period. So 
the floor is yours, sir.

                      Testimony of Gene L. Dodaro

    Mr. Dodaro. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Ranking 
Member Herrera Beutler, members of the committee. I am very 
pleased to be here today to talk about GAO's work and our 
budget request.
    First, I want to thank the committee very much for the 
support that you have given us over the past few years. And I 
believe we have returned a great investment on the support that 
you have given us. Over the last 5 years, we have returned $158 
for every dollar invested in GAO in financial benefits to the 
government. There have been over 1,200 other benefits and each 
year in terms of improvements in public safety greater 
efficiency and effectiveness of agency operations as a result 
of implementation of our recommendations as well.
    Now, in addition to our normal work, which supports about 
90 percent of the standing committees of the Congress, we have 
been given a few special assignments. First was to track and 
report on a realtime basis over $4.5 trillion spent for the 
coronavirus relief assistance. We have issued nine 
governmentwide reports talking about the status of that work. 
We have issued over 135 individual reports. We have made 277 
recommendations for midcourse corrections, both in the public 
health area as well as increasing transparency and 
accountability over the funds.
    Just last month, I testified before the Senate outlining 10 
specific legislative improvements that Congress could make that 
deal with a pervasive and growing improper payments problem and 
the lack of prevention of fraud in the first place.
    In addition, we updated our high-risk list for the 
Congress, which we do at the beginning of each new Congress. 
Two areas that I want to highlight because they are very 
important to the well-being of the American people. One is the 
need for greater Federal leadership and a national strategy to 
deal with drug misuse. This is particularly important in light 
of the growing number of overdose deaths, which have reached 
historic levels, and we outline a number of ways that that 
could be done.
    We also highlighted and added HHS' leadership and 
coordination for public health emergencies, not just infectious 
diseases but natural disasters and other areas. There is a need 
for more clarity in roles and responsibilities, better and 
consistent communication with the public, and better 
transparency and oversight over that work.
    Also, our work on identifying overlap duplication and 
fragmentation in the Federal Government has now resulted in 
over 1,200 recommendations, half of which have been implemented 
by the Congress. So far that has saved $515 billion to the 
Federal Government as a result of implementation of our 
recommendations in that area.
    Now, we are seeking funds for five areas: One is to 
increase our work in the science and technology area. We have 
greatly increased the number of technology assessments. Ranking 
Member Herrera Beutler mentioned the work we are doing in 
artificial intelligence. We have also done Blockchain, 5G, and 
a number of other areas that I could talk about in the Q&A.
    Also, we are getting more requests not only from committees 
but individual Member offices. So I want to increase the number 
of staff we have in that area to not only provide more 
technology assessments but also to provide more technical 
assistance to the Members throughout the Congress.
    A second area is cybersecurity, which is an area I have 
long been concerned about. I designated it a high-risk area 
across the government in 1997. We added critical infrastructure 
protection in 2003. We have beefed up that area.
    The Federal Government, in my opinion, is still not acting 
at a pace commensurate with the evolving great threat to our 
national security. So I would like to beef up, again, our 
cybersecurity work. We are getting inundated with requests from 
the Congress, particularly now that the concern has been 
growing, which it should have been, in the critical 
infrastructure protection area and other areas like defense 
weapons systems. This is not just information systems; it is 
the functioning of all the Federal Government's operations.
    The third area is national defense. Obviously, the 
situation in Ukraine and other developments around the world 
means that we will be getting increased requests from the 
Congress. There is also a lot of concern about competition from 
Russia and China. We are doing a lot of work in hypersonic 
weapons, artificial intelligence and, military readiness. I 
think with additional investments in defense the number of 
requests that we will receive will continue to increase in that 
area.
    Fourth is healthcare. Healthcare is the fastest growing 
portion of the Federal Government's budget. Half of the 
improper payments that Ms. Herrera Beutler mentioned are in 
Medicare and Medicaid. Medicaid alone had over $98 billion in 
improper payments last year, and Medicare over $45 billion.
    And those are not complete estimates, in my judgment. The 
managed care portion of Medicaid is not being really evaluated 
for improper payments. That is about half of the Medicaid 
program. So this problem is a lot bigger. But, also, we have 
been doing a lot more work in behavioral health issues, mental 
health issues that have been a growing problem. They were 
exacerbated during the pandemic.
    And then the fifth area, as the chairman mentioned, is 
infrastructure investments. The Congress has made a huge 
investment in that area. The Infrastructure Act gave us about 
35 individual mandates for us to do specific studies. The 
Consolidated Appropriation Act, which just passed, adds seven 
more mandates. Our discussions with the committees indicate 
that we will be getting a lot more requests even over and above 
those mandates, so we could use a little extra help in that 
area.
    Our budget submission would also help us improve our 
infrastructure operations and the environment in GAO. Also our 
information technology program, not only to improve our own 
computer security but also to continue to make our operations 
more efficient and effective and getting more digital products 
to the Congress in a faster pace.
    Lastly, I would just close by publicly thanking the 
dedicated, talented people that we have at the GAO. We are one 
of the best workforces for audit organizations in the world. I 
am very pleased that we were also rated number one in best 
places to work this past year by the partnership for public 
service among midsize agencies in the Federal Government. So I 
am very proud of our record at GAO.
    I am happy to respond to questions today, appreciate the 
opportunity. I know that you will take our requests carefully 
under deliberation, so thank you very much.
    [The information follows:]  
    
    
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                        MANAGING MEMBER REQUESTS

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you. I appreciate it. Always great to hear 
from you. This is one of my favorite hearings every year to 
hear about how you are trying to help us modernize the 
government.
    A couple questions. I will start off here first, Mr. 
Dodaro. Do you know how many member requests you guys were 
unable to respond to in the past year or so?
    Mr. Dodaro. Yes. Well, we are able to get to all the 
requests but not as quickly as we would like, Mr. Chairman. I 
mean, that is part of the problem. There are about 67 that we 
weren't able to get to when we promised the committee that we 
would be able to get to them because of developments that 
happened. Like, for example, we had reached agreement with 
everybody about all the requests before the omnibus passed, and 
then there is, you know, 25, 30 more statutory mandates in 
there.
    According to the congressional protocols that we negotiated 
with the Congress, priority one are requests for statutory 
mandates and committee and conference report mandates; priority 
two requests from committee chairs and ranking members. And so 
we do that. So about 10 percent of the work that we do we 
couldn't get to exactly when we said we were going to get 
there. I am hopeful, if our budget request is honored, we will 
be able to do better on that next year.
    Mr. Ryan. Can you give us a little more specifics on doing 
better, so what does that mean? What is the average turnaround 
time now for a Member request, and what would it be if this 
budget request was fulfilled and you got 3,500 full-time 
equivalents?
    Mr. Dodaro. Yes. Well, typically we are fully booked all 
the time. So, when we get a request in, if it is not priority 
one--priority ones we try to start right away--it is about 8 
months before we can get to a number of Member requests. And so 
what I would like to do, if we get this request, is at least 
get it down lower than 8 months. I am not sure how much. A lot 
depends on how much--what the volume of requests are during the 
year and the increase in the numbers statutory requirements 
that Congress has given us.
    There has been a huge increase in the statutory mandates 
that Congress has given us, you know, including the coronavirus 
area. There we had to provide monthly briefings to the set of 
committees as well as bimonthly reports on what was the 
equivalent of doubling the size of Federal expenditures during 
the year. So it is a very dynamic situation.
    We are always working with the committees to set 
priorities. That is the best way to deal with this. I regularly 
meet with chairs and ranking members of committees to try to 
make sure that we are working on their greatest priorities and 
what their needs are. And, of course, their needs always evolve 
and change as well. So it is about 8 months, but we want to do 
better.

                    STAFF RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION

    Mr. Ryan. Let me ask you a couple quick questions here. We 
are all hearing about having trouble recruiting and getting 
people on board. How is the wage structure there? Is it 
competitive, or are you having trouble finding people to come 
and work for GAO?
    Mr. Dodaro. No, we are not having any difficulty. I mean, 
the wage issues are always important to focus on. We have 
provided cost-of-living increases and given performance pay 
increases. Since March 2020, when the pandemic started, we have 
hired over 1,000 people.
    Four hundred and some were interns, which is the pipeline 
for our continued hiring. We hired 556 permanent employees. I 
am very pleased.
    We have, you know more than doubled the staff in the 
Science, Technology, and Assessments area. When we started in 
2019, we had 49 people in that area. Now we have 127. We are on 
target to get--try to get to 149 by the end of the year. I 
would like to increase it another 20 or so next year. Same in 
cybersecurity.
    We are not having problem, and our retention rate is really 
good, Mr. Chairman. We have retained at least 94 percent of our 
people since 2017 or better every year. So our attrition rate 
is 6 percent or so, and half of that is retirements. I will be 
the last baby boomer left in GAO.

                          GAO RECOMMENDATIONS

    Mr. Ryan. Great. Real quick, we know you make these great 
recommendations, and we value them. What actions have you guys 
taken as far as encouraging agencies to act, and what can we do 
from the congressional side to encourage people to implement 
what your recommendations are?
    Mr. Dodaro. Yes. I appreciate that question. About 76 
percent on average of our recommendations get implemented 
during a 4-year period of time. Some of them are complicated 
and it takes time to act.
    What I do is meet with every new leader of the Federal 
departments and agencies across the government to talk to them, 
get to know them. I do that on a regular basis when there is a 
new administration, or there is a change in the leadership 
position because of turnover. I send letters to every head of 
departments and agencies across the government listing open 
priority GAO recommendations. I don't list everything, but I 
prioritize it for their personal attention. Those letters are 
sent to the congressional committees. They are also made 
public, so there is a lot of visibility over those issues.
    We also work with the committees to make sure that the 
committees take action. Like in the omnibus there were, 20-some 
provisions directing people to implement GAO recommendations. 
So that is what we do.
    Now, what the Congress could do is to continue to hold 
oversight hearings, work with us to implement open 
recommendations. Right now, we have about 5,000 open GAO 
recommendations, which we keep accumulating. Ms. Herrera 
Beutler mentioned we made 1,600 new recommendations last year. 
So we are always adding new recommendations. About 446 are 
priority recommendations. These are things that could have 
significant savings and things that would be important for 
public safety and security reasons.
    Mr. Ryan. All right. Great.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler.

                           IMPROPER PAYMENTS

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And I had a similar question along the first--what the 
chairman just asked, so I am going to skip down a little bit.
    So, Comptroller, given the Nation's long-term fiscal 
challenges, I don't think--I don't think anybody here would 
agree--or would agree that we should not be wasting $281 
billion on improper payments. In fact, the $281 billion I 
understand is a conservative estimate, considering several 
agencies with large programs are not reporting estimates and 
some estimates are not comprehensive.
    So Congress needs, I think, GAO's guidance to address this 
problem. So what is GAO doing to address this area of 
significant waste in the Federal budget, and do you have any 
recommendations to our committee for legislative or technical 
changes to prevent these improper payments?
    Mr. Dodaro. Yes. As I mentioned in my opening statement, I 
testified about 10 different legislative solutions to these 
areas. Number one, we need to get the chief financial officers 
of all departments and agencies involved in reviewing the 
estimates.
    Right now, it is only the program people who administer the 
programs that provide the estimates. We need to get more rigor 
in the estimates, but also to follow up on corrective action 
plans and to bring the rate down. The rate has been brought 
down through concerted effort in the Medicare program, but not 
Medicaid. Also this is a pervasive problem. There were 86 
programs that reported last year improper payments at 16 
different agencies across the government. A third of those had 
error rates above 10 percent, some approaching 20 percent error 
rates. So this is a real problem.
    So we get the CFOs more involved. Second, there needs to be 
more public reporting. OMB retrenched on the provision to have 
it reported. Each agency produces a public financial report 
every year. And OMB said that you didn't have to report 
improper payments in the financial report of the agency. I 
said, that doesn't make sense. I mean, the financial report is 
basically to say how agencies provided stewardship over Federal 
funds and whether the payments were proper or not. So I have 
been encouraging OMB to reinstate the requirement, but Congress 
should put it into law.
    Thirdly every new Federal program that is over $100 million 
should be determined to be susceptible to improper payments. So 
estimates are made in the first year of the program. Agencies 
should have to prove that it is not a problem given the 
pervasive nature of this rather than the current situation, 
which is they are not required to make estimates until 2 or 3 
years into the program when these problems are entrenched. Then 
it is too late before we get on top of the problem.
    I also made a number of recommendations to improve fraud 
prevention, but I know you have other questions, so we can talk 
about those potentially later. I would be happy to submit my 
testimony to the committee with all our legislative 
recommendations.

         GAO SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY ASSESSMENT, AND ANALYTICS TEAM

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. That would be great. I feel like 
every--we could spend a long time just talking about the 
Medicaid piece alone, dedicate a whole hearing to.
    I wanted to ask about--I am trying to decide what to do, 
which one to do. Honestly, let's see, we will--I am going to 
just stay on the Science, Technology Assessment, and Analytics 
team. The committee is really pleased with the work and the 
growth of this--of I think the STAA--ST double A, okay, I don't 
know how to say it right, but we are excited about this.
    And I think your candid assessment about whether STAA would 
benefit from greater independence within GAO to have better 
autonomy to pursue kind of self-directed work, that could 
benefit Congress. Do you think that it has enough staff, 
resources, and bandwidth to do this? And then should it have 
its own appropriations line? And, if not, how do we ensure that 
division gets the resources needed?
    Mr. Dodaro. Yes. Well, first of all, STAA, like all the 
teams in GAO, have tremendous independence to do the work and 
we work in cooperation. And, also, all the work we do in GAO 
basically has people from multiple teams staffing that work. 
So, for example, when we do a technology assessment on 
regenerative medicine, which we are going to do, our healthcare 
professionals and our healthcare team work on that too, with 
STAA. You need people that have both technical and policy 
backgrounds.
    I am not in favor--and I testified on this before the House 
Committee on Modernization. I am not in favor of separate line 
item appropriations for STAA or any other team in GAO because I 
think it will lead to stovepipes within the agencies. I have 
spent most of my career eliminating stovepipes within GAO and 
in Federal agencies across the Federal Government.
    And I mentioned other areas in my statement that are of 
intense interest to the Congress, including defense and 
healthcare. So I think it would be disastrous and ruin our 
flexibility if there was a specific appropriation for defense, 
healthcare, STAA. I mean, we are being responsive. We have 
increased the size of the group. I am asking for some 
additional resources. We have never, never not met any requests 
from Congress in the STAA area. From my perspective, this is a 
solution in search of a problem. I think it would be very 
detrimental to GAO to go in that direction.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Message received. Thank you. Thank you 
so much.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Herrera Beutler.
    Next is Ms. Clark.
    Ms. Clark. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you.

                       REDUCING REPORT WAIT TIME

    Ms. Clark. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    It is good to be with you, Comptroller Dodaro. I want to 
begin by thanking you and your team for two GAO reports I 
requested, one on preventing child abuse in youth residential 
facilities and another that evaluated the employer-provided 
childcare credit. They took over a year to get here, but they 
were incredible when I got them.
    So I am delighted to hear that this budget is looking to 
reduce the 4-month wait. You have been able to narrow this down 
to further. But do you have any sense of timeframe, or it is 
just this budget will help you keep moving in the right 
direction?
    Mr. Dodaro. Well, it will help us keep moving in the right 
direction. I hesitate to give a timeframe, because I don't know 
what the volume of requests are going to be.
    Ms. Clark. Yeah.
    Mr. Dodaro. You know, we are unlike a consulting firm that 
has to go out and look for business. Business comes to us, and 
it comes in droves, and it comes from a lot of different 
sources, so I hesitate to give you a specific time frame. But 
this will give us 100 more people, and I am confident that that 
will help us to be more timely in being responsive to the 
Congress.

                         CYBERSECURITY THREATS

    Ms. Clark. That is good news.
    And I also want to thank you for your focus--it is a 
priority for Congress and the Biden administration--on 
cybersecurity. And I know that is one for your Information 
Technology and Cybersecurity team, ITC. I wonder if you can 
share with us what your assessment of the Federal Government's 
efforts in recent years to secure critical infrastructure, 
especially in light of the threats from Russia that we are 
seeing, and to what extent your budget is going to improve upon 
ITC's expertise and capacity to remedy cybersecurity 
shortcomings?
    Mr. Dodaro. Yes. As I mentioned in my opening statements, I 
don't think the Federal Government is operating at a pace 
commensurate with the evolving threat. This is particularly 
true in the critical infrastructure area. There are standards 
produced by the National Institute of Standards and Technology 
that are given to the private sector. Eighty percent of the 
computing assets in our country are in the private sector 
hands. So this is very important. Critical infrastructure 
protection, as I mentioned, was designated a high-risk area in 
2003. So I have long been concerned about this and industrial 
control systems and other things as we become more dependent on 
technology, but those standards are voluntary to be implemented 
on the part of the private sector. There are a very few 
specific areas where the Federal Government has regulatory 
authority that they can be more aggressive and encourage 
implementation of those standards. So, really, right now, for 
many of these 16 critical infrastructure sections, the Federal 
Government really doesn't know how prepared the infrastructure 
sectors are to deal with cybersecurity threats.
    I was glad to see the Congress pass legislation to require 
more reporting of cybersecurity incidents and on a faster 
basis, so that is one step in the right direction. But there 
needs to be more sharing of information between the public 
sector and the private sector. What this reminds me of is 
before 9/11 when there was not enough sharing among the 16 
different intelligence agencies about terrorist threats. We 
have a very, stovepiped kind of situation, and there is not 
enough sharing. As a result, we are not able to react enough or 
to give them advice on how to prevent things.
    So there is a lot more work that needs to be done. I am 
pleased that we are becoming more aggressive in the Federal 
Government about dealing with these issues, but it shouldn't 
take a Colonial Pipeline issue and some of these other real 
disastrous situations to prompt action.

                     INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY SHARING

    Ms. Clark. Yes. And speaking of sharing that--I agree with 
you the sharing across the private and the public. But sticking 
to the public and the public, last year, we talked about your 
ability to share information and the challenges you were 
experiencing with respect to the intelligence community, and 
you were optimistic in your assessment of IC's willingness to 
cooperate. And I wonder if you could update us on how your 
meeting with Director Haines went last year, and has anything 
changed since your last assessment of cooperation from the IC?
    Mr. Dodaro. Yes, I was very pleased with my meeting with 
Director Haines, as I have been with most of my meetings with 
the agencies. And where I have had some problems I have 
talked--had further discussions--with the agencies, and that 
has been worked out. It is working there.
    In the intelligence community, my optimism was correct. So 
I still feel optimistic about it. There are always going to be 
special challenges in that area because of the sensitivity, but 
I am confident we can work through all those issues. And we 
have been getting additional requests from the Congress. For 
example--to look at--Chinese language skills in the 
intelligence community. We are looking at that issue now. We 
have looked at personnel vetting. We have looked at hiring and 
talent management in the agencies. And so our work is 
increasing, and the cooperation has been good.
    Ms. Clark. Great. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Clark.
    Next up is the gentleman who was the first to arrive here 
today on the committee, Mr. Newhouse.

                            COVID-19 RELIEF

    Mr. Newhouse. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the 
recognition for being on time.
    Mr. Comptroller General, thanks for being with us this 
morning, and thank you and everyone that you work with for your 
very important efforts on the key function of the Federal 
Government, and I appreciate all the work that you have done 
and for your reporting today.
    I just wanted to talk a little bit or ask you a little bit 
about, first of all, you know, part of the COVID relief efforts 
that Congress established this special investigator for COVID-
19 programs, and so I am curious as to your--you talked a 
little bit about it in your opening remarks but your--I want to 
be clear about your coordination, the relationship with that 
office, the intersection that you have kind of delineated the 
responsibilities. So that is one idea I want to be clearer on.
    Then also, you know, the numbers are, you know, out of 
something over $4.5 trillion of aid that has been put out 
there, you know, the numbers of fraud still are pretty 
staggering, large numbers. And I wanted to know if the numbers 
that were being reported are specific, clear numbers of fraud, 
or are they estimates? And if they are specific, does that mean 
that these are active cases that we are going after the 
recovery of these funds?
    And I have heard that overall the number is something over 
$230 billion in fraud, with only about--and correct me if I'm 
wrong--only about $10 billion of that overall been recovered. 
If that is the case, you can verify. But what is the prospects 
of recovering more than that amount, and what will it take to 
get there? Is this kind of like squeezing blood out of a 
turnip, so to speak, or is there a good chance of us recovering 
more? So I just want to start with those thoughts, if you 
could.
    Mr. Dodaro. Sure. First, on the special pandemic relief 
accountability committee that was established in the Inspector 
General community, right after the CARES Act was passed in 
2020, one of my first calls was to Michael Horowitz, who became 
the chair of that committee to work on cooperative agreements. 
I just met this March with the IG community, all 78 or so IGs 
to coordinate. We also coordinate with each one individually. 
So we have very effective working relationships with the 
inspector general community to make sure we are each using our 
resources effectively and efficiently, and we coordinate on a 
regular basis.
    Now, with regard to the fraud situation--there was a great 
sense of urgency to get this money out. As a result, some of 
the controls that should have been in place before the payments 
were made were either reduced or eliminated. Then, also, a 
number of corrective actions that we had recommended, had not 
been put in place. If you do not have these prepayment controls 
in place, you have got to quickly do post-payment reviews to 
make sure you did it right. The money is out there, but then 
you check, you monitor, and then you audit, and those were slow 
to come.
    Now, part of this problem, Congressman Newhouse, was 
exacerbated by the fact that agencies did not implement 
legislation the Congress passed in 2016. In 2015, GAO had 
identified a fraud framework that could be used to prevent 
fraud. Now, the only way to successfully safeguard the Federal 
Government's money from fraud is to prevent it in the first 
place. You have very dim prospects of recovering the money 
after it is long gone. In your analogy, I would bet more on the 
turnip than I would on getting the money back in these cases. 
But the agencies were slow to implement this 2016 law. This was 
particularly true at SBA and the Labor Department, the 
Unemployment Insurance program. So I was very disappointed, and 
this caused a problem.
    Now, with regard to the number, they are all estimates. 
Fraud is a very specific thing because you have to prove 
intent, so it is really a legal determination. So, until all 
these cases are resolved--now, there have been hundreds of 
people that have already pled guilty. There have been some that 
are convicted. There are hundreds of other investigations 
ongoing.
    We know there was a huge improper payments problem. There 
is $78 billion in improper payments just estimated in 
unemployment insurance alone for 2021. That doesn't include all 
the special programs that were created by the Congress. So some 
of the money has been recovered. Sometimes there is judgments 
against people for restitution. But the odds of that being 
collected--you know, I mean, there is a kind of rule of thumb 
in the law enforcement community. It is about 10 percent of 
what the restitution was set at--so the best thing to do is 
prevent it.
    Now, I made legislative recommendations to have more fraud 
reporting in the financial report of the Federal Government, 
for Congress to reinstitute that requirement that lapsed, to 
provide more visibility. I have also recommended that Congress 
provide more aggressive oversight to make sure agencies can 
prevent fraud in the first place. That is our best safeguard 
right there.
    Mr. Newhouse. Yeah, prevent it before it happens. Yeah.
    Mr. Dodaro. Absolutely.
    Mr. Newhouse. Yeah. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, my 
time is up, so thank you.
    Mr. Ryan. Thanks to the gentleman from Washington.
    The distinguished gentlelady from Virginia, Ms. Wexton.
    Ms. Wexton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it.

                           IMPROPER PAYMENTS

    Mr. Dodaro, thank you for joining us here today. I really 
like what you are saying. I mean, I don't like what you are 
saying; I just like that you are saying it. It is just very, 
very important, and the GAO has done a lot to help save the 
government money.
    So I am really curious about this issue of improper 
payments versus fraudulent payments. At what point are you able 
to determine whether they go from just being improper to being 
fraudulent, and is that something you have to refer to DOJ in 
order for that determination to be made?
    Mr. Dodaro. Yes, that is exactly right. We at GAO, since we 
are in the legislative branch, we do not have law enforcement 
authority. So, when we identify potential fraud, we refer it to 
the Justice Department or to the inspectors general. The 
inspectors general have much more--many more criminal 
investigators than GAO. So that is why when we work with them, 
they do more of the fraud investigations, so we refer it to 
them as well.
    Ms. Wexton. Got it. Okay.

                          EMPLOYMENT INCREASES

    And you were asking for about 100 more full-time employees 
for fiscal year 2023. Is that right?
    Mr. Dodaro. Yes, that is correct.
    Ms. Wexton. And what area of expertise are those people 
going to have? I mean, do you need them because of these new 
mandates that you have from the infrastructure bill and from 
all the COVID relief and everything?
    Mr. Dodaro. No, we have the talent really on board in those 
areas. The new people would be mostly in the science and 
technology area. We are still hiring--we have hired a lot of 
engineers, people with scientific backgrounds, microbiology, 
chemistry, aerospace engineering. So we want to continue to add 
to our science and technology area and more cybersecurity 
people in GAO.
    We will hire some people in defense area. If we get the 
additional money for infrastructure spending oversight that we 
are asking for, I would hire additional people, but they 
wouldn't necessarily be specialists--most of that work can be 
done by generalists at GAO. We have people that are experts in 
physical infrastructure that have been doing surface 
transportation, bridge work, telecommunications for a while.
    So we have the capability; just be sizing that up a little 
bit more to deal with this work, because some of the 
coronavirus mandates, go through 2025. The infrastructure, some 
of those programs will go through 2024 as well. We are still 
auditing the TARP program from the Recovery Act days back from 
2009, 2010 believe it or not.
    So these things have long tails on them, just like disaster 
aid. And so we need more people to sustain this, because if we 
don't, what happens is it eats up our capacity, so when new 
requests come in from Congress, we can't be as responsive. So, 
if we don't get help on these special efforts, it would make it 
much more difficult to reduce that 8-month response time I 
talked about earlier.
    Ms. Wexton. Okay. So you think you are going to need these 
people in perpetuity really? I mean, it is just not--it is not 
like that could be a temporary thing----
    Mr. Dodaro. Yes, as much as perpetuity exists in life, you 
know, yes, we will need that capacity for the most part. I put 
surface--financing the Federal Government's transportation 
infrastructure on our high-risk list in 2007. Despite this 
recent, big investment in the nation's infrastructure, there 
they are going to be continued needs. We don't have a way to 
fund our transportation infrastructure on a regular basis the 
way we used to with the gas tax.
    I mean, the gas tax hasn't been increased since 1993. The 
Congress has been tapping general appropriation funds since 
2008 to supplement the revenues that should be going into the 
trust fund. So the whole issue about user pay has been broken 
there in the transportation area. So I do think there is going 
to be more attention that have to be focused on transportation 
issues beyond implementation of this new investment in that 
area.

                                 FRAUD

    Ms. Wexton [continuing]. Versus fraudulent payments, does 
GAO often uncover them before like Medicaid does itself and 
before these agencies uncover it themselves?
    Mr. Dodaro. In some cases, we do, but not in most cases. In 
most cases, I mean, these are estimates that are made. And what 
I want to do, and I have tried to work with the administration, 
is in the Medicaid area--and this is true in Unemployment 
Insurance as well--they are administered at the State level. 
Now, each State has an auditor that is either appointed or 
elected and we deal with those State auditors all the time. I 
think we ought to invest and give them more responsibility to 
audit at the State level because each of these programs, the 
Medicaid programs are different in each State. They are not 
uniform. And I think the State auditors, getting them involved 
could help prevent some of these things where they could 
identify them ahead of time.
    I am also working with the administration, Treasury, and 
OMB, and the White House person focused on the American Rescue 
Act implementation, on new ways to do identity verification so 
we know when somebody applies that that is the person who says 
they are. A lot of this fraud occurred with people stealing 
identities, making up identities, fake firms. We should be able 
to do a better job in identifying and verifying who we are 
going to give the money to before we give it to them.
    Ms. Wexton. That has been a continuing issue. So, if you 
find any solutions, please let us know, because it is something 
we have been looking for for many years, so----
    Mr. Dodaro. I used to have a greater faith in human nature 
before I took this job, but, you know, these emergencies bring 
out the best in people, healthcare workers and others, but they 
bring out the worst in people that want to prey on this 
situation, and they do. They are very creative, and so we need 
to be on our guard.
    Ms. Wexton. Thank you very much, Mr. Dodaro.
    And thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back since it appears 
my time has long expired now.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Wexton.
    The distinguished gentleman from Hawaii, Mr. Case.

                           STAFFING REQUESTS

    Mr. Case. Thank you, Mr. Chair. My faith in human nature 
has been on a long up and down curve since taking this job. 
Thank you again for all of your service, and I join everybody 
else's comments along those lines.
    Can I just say on the subject of just understanding your 
staffing requests, first of all, for fiscal year 2022 recently 
enacted, 3,400 FTEs, are you at 3,400 FTEs right now?
    Mr. Dodaro. No. We will be close to that by the end of the 
year. We are like--our projections are, I think, around 3,390, 
so we are very close.
    Mr. Case. Okay. And then, I guess, the similar question is, 
so you want to go up another 100. In response to Ms. Wexton, 
you outlined the areas where you want to go up. I just did some 
really simple math just to understand what you were trying to 
achieve and kind of broke it down to a unit cost, if I can put 
it that way. And it looks like your unit cost per FTE request 
is about 5 percent up from fiscal year 2022 to 2023. All I did 
was just take the total amount requested, divided by--you know, 
divided by the FTE and run a percentage from year to year on 
it.
    And I guess, first of all, does that sound about right, No. 
1, and then, No. 2, I am just trying to ask myself, is that 
enough to get you to 3,500 FTEs at an increase of somewhere 
around 5 percent? I guess it would make sense if--I guess it 
would depend a lot on where those FTEs were, but if you are 
trying to hire into the far more competitive----
    Mr. Dodaro. I think you went on mute, Congressman.
    Mr. Case. I don't know where I went off.
    Mr. Dodaro. Well, you weren't off long.
    Mr. Case. Okay. So, if you are trying to hire--I was saying 
that if you are--that would depend a lot on where your FTEs 
were coming from. Maybe 5 percent would be reasonable in some 
areas of FTE increase. But if you are in a highly competitive 
environment, as I suspect you still are from a salary 
perspective, is that going to be enough to get you to 3,500 
FTEs or at least the ones that you want?
    Mr. Dodaro. Yes, I think we can get there. We have been 
fairly aggressive in hiring this year, even though our 
appropriation wasn't known until halfway through the fiscal 
year. You know, that is a problem. I mean, when I testified 
before the House Modernization Committee, they want to know 
what they could do to help us. And I said, well, if we can get 
our appropriation passed before the beginning of the fiscal 
year, that would be a good start, because you don't want to 
hire until you know.
    Now, we were able to be more aggressive this year since we 
did get additional supplemental appropriations for the CARES 
Act work, and so we felt confident moving forward in that area. 
So we are going to end this year in a good position. A lot 
depends on your strength at the end of the year and how many 
people you have, because if you don't have a lot of people on 
board at the beginning of the fiscal year, it is hard to burn 
the FTE level during the year.
    So I feel confident we will be able to do that and we will 
be able to find the people that we need. We have been pretty 
successful in the science and technology area, cybersecurity as 
well. I have been very pleased with our ability to recruit in 
those areas. The other areas, healthcare and defense, won't be 
a problem at all. We have got a long track record there, and we 
have done pretty good.
    I mentioned earlier that we hired 440-some interns since 
the COVID started. What we do is we hire our interns 
competitively, and so, once we know how much money we will 
receive, we can make those that did a good job a job offer 
right away and get them all scheduled to come in. So I am 
fairly confident we can hit the FTE level. Of course, it would 
help if we get our 2023 appropriation, you know, at least by 
the end of the first quarter in 2023.
    Mr. Case. Oh, I am glad you said 2023. I was going to ask 
you which first quarter were you referring to.
    And just a quick clarification, the amounts that were 
allocated straight from the bipartisan infrastructure plan 
where you picked up obligations there, are those positions 
necessary to carry those out, are those part of your 3,500 
FTEs, or are those kind of a separate category of staff?
    Mr. Dodaro. Those are a separate category of staff.
    Mr. Case. Okay.
    Mr. Dodaro. We are asking for multiple years, and over 
those years, it would be equivalent of 125 staff but spread 
over a number of years.
    Mr. Case. Okay. Great. All right. Thank you so much again.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Case.
    The distinguished gentleman from Nevada, Mr. Amodei. Going 
once? Going twice?
    Mr. Amodei. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can you hear me?
    Mr. Ryan. There you are.
    Mr. Amodei. Hey, sorry about that.
    Sorry, Mr. Comptroller General. Listen, we have reviewed 
your report, been listening with your conversations with the 
other folks. I want to thank you for your service, and we will 
yield back.
    Mr. Dodaro. Thank you.
    Mr. Amodei. Yep.
    Mr. Dodaro. Good to see you again.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you.
    The distinguished gentleman from New York, Mr. Espaillat.
    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, Comptroller Dodaro. Last year, the GAO science 
and technology team grew tremendously, reaching a total of 123 
staff members as of December of 2021. What is your staff goal 
for the S&T team in order to bolster your expertise in science 
and technology, and how will your fiscal year 2023 proposal 
help you achieve this goal? That is the first question.
    Mr. Dodaro. Sure. We are hopeful that we can achieve about 
149 staff by the end of this fiscal year, although that is a 
little bit of a stretch goal. But I am hopeful then that we can 
increase it to about 165 people or so depending upon the 
response to our budget request in fiscal 2023, Congressman.

                       ENGLISH-LANGUAGE-LEARNERS

    Mr. Espaillat. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Comptroller.
    Now, my second question is, as part of the GAO's COVID-19 
monitoring and oversight responsibilities under the CARES Act, 
the GAO found that some English-language learners couldn't 
fully participate in distance learning due to language barriers 
that limited access to technology. Your report states that 
English-language learners lost the opportunities to practice 
their language skills, according to school district officials 
and representatives of a professional association.
    This is a reality that I have heard from my constituency. 
Additionally, families have informed me that their children are 
being misclassified as having learning disabilities instead of 
having English-language learners' challenges; thus, the 
services they received are often misguided and delaying their 
academic success.
    Will you commit to studying how local education agencies 
determine how students are classified as English-language 
learners in order to guarantee that the funds to these 
populations are used in a manner that is what we intended as 
Members of Congress?
    Mr. Dodaro. Yes. I am happy to look further at that issue. 
You know, as a parent, and grandparent myself, I am very 
concerned about the learning loss that occurred during the 
pandemic. We found in a national survey that over 1 million 
teachers had at least one student who never showed up at all 
during the pandemic.
    And so this is a problem. It is a problem especially for 
those that have language challenges but also special needs 
children as well regardless of the language. And so this is a 
very important issue. It is a sad development for our children, 
and hopefully we can recover, but I would be happy to look 
further at that issue.
    Mr. Espaillat. Very often English-language learners are 
expected to be proficient, English proficient in like a very 
short period of time. Most data shows that it takes anywhere 
from 6 to 7 years to be language proficient. And some of the 
metrics of the tests that are provided by States are tough even 
for U.S.-born children with regards to English language arts.
    And so--and a language learner, an English-language learner 
may be asked within a year to be performing at a level that 
even U.S.-born children have difficulties meeting. And so, as a 
result, they often get misclassified as having a disability, or 
they are forced into failure, you know, and they are sort of 
like pushed into a corner where they will fail.
    So I think it is important that we adapt to their needs and 
be able to recognize what their needs are, whether they are a 
English-language learner or children with special needs, and 
then provide the tools that they will be able to use to move 
forward. But I do hope--thank you, and I do hope that my team 
will be working with you eliminating these barriers for 
academic achievement for English-language learners.

                    Closing Remarks of Chairman Ryan

    Mr. Ryan. I thank the gentleman.
    Thank you, gentleman from New York. We appreciate it.
    We covered a lot of ground here today, Mr. Dodaro. Thank 
you so much for your time. We have got a lot of different 
hearings going on now that our members need to get to, as you 
know happens this time of year. So we are only going to do one 
round of questions. We appreciate your thoroughness.
    And, again, on a personal level, I think all the members of 
the committee, we lean on you and we count on you and we count 
on the work of all the good people that you have with you. So 
if you could just make sure you let them know how invaluable 
they are to us trying to make this thing called government work 
and trying our best to modernize to keep up with all of the 
challenges that we all face. Please let them know how much we 
appreciate them, and we appreciate you.
    And, you know, we will definitely be in touch. And we are 
going to look very, very closely at your budget request, 
knowing the demands that you all have and then also considering 
the demands we have here with the limited amount of resources. 
So we appreciate you. We love you and can't thank you enough.
    And, with that, this hearing is adjourned.
    Mr. Dodaro. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

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                                            Tuesday, April 5, 2022.

                      CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE

                                WITNESS

PHILLIP SWAGEL, DIRECTOR, CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE

                   Opening Statement of Chairman Ryan

    Mr. Ryan. The committee will come to order. This hearing 
this afternoon is fully virtual, so we need to address a few 
housekeeping matters. First, for today's meeting, the chair or 
staff designated by the chair may mute participants' 
microphones when they are not under recognition for the 
purposes of eliminating inadvertent background noise.
    Second, members are responsible for muting and unmuting 
themselves. If I notice when you are recognized you have not 
unmuted yourself, I will ask you if you would like the staff to 
unmute you. If you indicate approval by nodding, staff will 
unmute your microphone.
    Third, you will notice a clock on your screen that will 
show how much of the 5-minute clock is remaining. If there is a 
technical issue, we will move to the next member until the 
issue is resolved, and you will retain the balance of your 
time. But we are going to be very strict with the 5-minute rule 
here today because we have another hearing and then a round of 
votes, so we are going to need to get through these hearings.
    Fourth, we will be beginning with the chair and ranking 
member. Then members present at the time the hearing is called 
to order will be recognized in the order of seniority.
    Finally, House rules require me to remind you that we have 
set up an email address to which members can send anything they 
wish to be submitted in writing--or they wish to submit in 
writing at any of our hearings. That email address has been 
provided in advance to your staff.
    Dr. Swagel, nice to see you again. Thank you for joining 
us. We appreciate your time here today to discuss the fiscal 
year 2023 budget request for the Congressional Budget Office, 
affectionately known here on Capitol Hill simply as CBO.
    CBO is a nonpartisan office that plays a key role in this 
institution. CBO helps Congress effectively exercise the power 
of the purse assigned to us by the Constitution. With CBO, 
Congress has its own independent economic analysis and cost 
estimate of proposed legislation, and therefore, we do not have 
to rely solely on the Office of Management and Budget within 
the executive branch.
    CBO is vital for both the House and Senate Appropriations 
Committees, as we are the source of some of CBO's heaviest 
workload. We employ CBO's help in making sure our bills add up 
to what they are supposed to, and we need CBO cost estimates at 
each stage of legislative action.
    As you noted in your April letter to Senator Braun, CBO has 
not yet published updated economic and budgetary projections 
this calendar year. The current absence of information leaves 
this committee even more dependent on CBO's forthcoming 
baseline projections.
    As chair of the subcommittee, I am acutely aware of the 
certainty and precision that the appropriations process demands 
of CBO, so I want to underscore how critical it is that your 
public commitment to provide us with the information necessary 
to discharge our duties on a schedule that supports those 
responsibilities holds firm. Again, we appreciate all the 
support you provide to us so we can make significant 
investments in American jobs and economic growth.
    For fiscal year 2023, CBO is requesting a total of $64.6 
million, a $3.7 million, or 6-percent, increase over fiscal 
year 2022 enacted totals. According to the request, this will 
mainly be used to support salaries and benefits for personnel.
    Dr. Swagel, I look forward to your testimony today, but 
first I would like to yield to my friend and colleague from the 
great State of Washington, Ranking Member Jaime Herrera 
Beutler, for any opening comments that she would like to make.

          Opening Statement of Ranking Member Herrera Beutler

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And it is great to see you again, Dr. Swagel. Your work is 
always of interest. It is always important. It is not always 
understandable, but that is part of why we enjoy working with 
you.
    The CBO's fiscal 2023 request is $60.953 million, which 
represents a 6.4-percent increase over last year's enacted 
level. And the Congressional Budget Office, for those folks who 
are watching--this is an exciting hearing--need to know how 
much what you do impacts everything we are able to do here in 
Congress. It is actually absolutely crucial.
    And basically you provide the congressional budget, and it 
is the information on budgetary impacts of all the legislation 
that we are considering and trying to consider, and so much of 
it hinges on how--what is the cost of it and what are the 
impacts and how is it paid for.
    And then really the tireless work of you and your staff is 
so appreciated. And I know your staff, when we have long 
evenings and weekends, your staff do as well because they are 
trying to make it work to get our legislation moving and in the 
right form for us.
    So the majority of your requests for increase is your 
personnel cost to cover current employees' salary and benefits 
as well as provide funds for seven new staff members, which I 
believe you already spoke about, to meet the needs for the 
increase in legislative activity.
    And something I find really important is ensuring all 
offices have equal access to the information that CBO provides, 
and you and I have spoken about this before. In recent years, 
Congress has appropriated funds to allow CBO to improve its 
responsiveness and its transparency to all Members.
    And I was really pleased to see that, during your estimate 
release for the Build Back Better legislation, CBO released one 
title at a time in order to expedite the information instead of 
waiting for the entire behemoth of a report to be completed. 
And with a bill well over 2,000 pages, thousands of requests 
from staff as they develop the legislative proposals, and over 
half of the agency involved in the estimate, I really 
appreciate the creative flexibility that you and your team used 
to ensure the information was provided as fairly and as quickly 
as possible. So I look forward to hearing more about your 
agency's work and your ideas on how we can help CBO improve.
    And, with that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

                     CHAIRMAN OUTLINES PROCEEDINGS

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Herrera Beutler.
    Without objection, your written testimony will be made part 
of the record.
    Dr. Swagel, please summarize your statement for the members 
of the committee. Once you have finished your statement, we 
will move to the question-and-answer period. The floor is 
yours.

                      Testimony of Phillip Swagel

    Mr. Swagel. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Ryan, thank you, 
Ranking Member Herrera Beutler, and thank you, members of the 
subcommittee, for this opportunity to testify about the 
Congressional Budget Office's budget request. And, as you just 
said, the purpose of my testimony today is to request an 
appropriation of $64.6 million for fiscal year 2023, and that 
is a 6-percent increase from the amount that we were provided 
in fiscal year 2022. And thank you, you know, to both you and 
to the entire committee for your support and for providing our 
full request this fiscal year.
    So the request for 2023 would support our goal to be more 
transparent and more responsive. And I am very well aware of 
the need for us to make sure that what we do is understandable, 
and it is a key challenge for us is to make sure our analysis 
is clear and make sure it is timely, and to get that balance 
right and to improve when we don't get the balance right.
    So, as you just said, about three quarters of the requested 
increase for next year is for personnel. That would cover the, 
you know, normal increases for the existing staff. It would 
cover the full year for the salaries and benefits for the staff 
we hired last year--or this year, that is, in fiscal year 2022, 
and then allow us to hire seven new staff next year.
    One would be in IT, and we just need more help in IT, 
especially with the hybrid environment. Four would focus on 
health policy and the mix of energy, infrastructure, and 
climate, and those are areas of heightened legislative 
activity, you know, both health now, and then we are building 
capacity on energy and climate especially.
    And then two others would be flexible, you know, more 
junior staff who would shift across topics to help on 
especially complicated work. And it is something we have been 
doing in the past that has been successful, and I want to keep 
building on that. And then the remaining roughly one quarter of 
the increase, about $1 million, would be mainly for IT 
enhancements, including cybersecurity.
    So, in 2021, CBO worked on three major legislative 
packages, and so we provided technical assistance and cost 
estimates for the American Rescue Plan Act, the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act, and the Build Back Better Act. And, 
you know, we worked, you know, both to provide timely 
information, and as Representative Herrera Beutler said, to 
make sure that the information went out evenly to all 
interested parties. And I got that message, how important that 
is.
    We released the budget and economic projections, well, last 
year in February and July of 2021. We are working on the next 
update now to be released next month, in May. And, absolutely, 
you know, Mr. Chairman, as you said, and I understand that 
having that update as soon as possible is essential for the 
work of the Appropriations Committee. You know, the delay in 
the administration's budget is the challenge for us because we 
get data from the administration only when they release the 
budget, so, you know, that set us back some.
    So, in addition to that, to the cost estimates and 
appropriations work, we produce reports on a range of topics, 
on military pay, estate and gift taxes, infrastructure 
investment. We did work on lots of different health topics. We 
had one on the minimum wage last year and many other issues. We 
have, you know, lots of work in progress. We put out a 
quarterly report on what we have in the pipeline, so there is, 
you know, lots of work there.
    Looking ahead to next year, the requested funding would 
allow us to, you know, really keep doing our--fulfilling our 
mission to support the Congress, right. We would fulfill 
thousands of requests for technical assistance generally from 
committees but from others looking for information as they 
develop legislation.
    You know, I suspect we would get about 700--roughly 700 
cost estimates, you know, probably more than we did last year. 
Most of those are to the authorizing committees after bills are 
reported, scorekeeping reports and estimates for 
appropriations, and then analytic papers and reports. And then 
a wide range of other things, you know, blog posts, chart 
books, interactive slide decks, and much more.
    So, in summary, to achieve our goal to be as responsive as 
possible, CBO requests an increase of $3.7 million. With your 
support, we look forward to continuing to provide timely and 
high-quality analysis to the Congress. Thank you again for your 
support, and I am happy to take any questions.
    [The information follows:]

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                         RESPONDING TO CONGRESS

    Mr. Ryan. Appreciate that. Thank you.
    My question is around transparency and more so 
responsiveness. We see your multiyear plan here to increase 
capacity on all of the various issues that you mentioned. But 
we are, you know, very concerned on this committee--and not 
just with you. We had this with the GAO earlier--about 
responsiveness to the Appropriations and to the Budget 
Committee. So, building on your prior efforts, if you could 
tell us how the 2022 budget that has been enacted will enable 
your agency to further increase the timeliness of support for 
the upcoming 2023 cycle.
    Mr. Swagel. No, of course. And, in some instances, it has 
been a continuing effort at the areas in which the Congress is 
especially working intensively. In healthcare, right, health 
policy was a focus of both the reconciliation packages, the 
Rescue Plan Act and Build Back Better, and so the fiscal year 
2022 appropriation allowed us to hire more in healthcare, which 
is already the largest group within the agency and we hired 
more. We lose some, you know, both to retirements and to, you 
know, sort of other agencies or the private sector, but we are 
still expanding.
    And so, you know, we are working on coverage expansions, on 
drug pricing, on Medicare reform and much more. And then energy 
and climate is the other area where the fiscal year 2022 is 
allowing us to build, and essentially we are building capacity 
that, you know, I--whenever climate legislation comes, I want 
us to be ready for it, and energy legislation as well. And so 
that is what we are building capacity.
    And then the 2022 appropriations allowed us to keep going 
further on IT, improving our resiliency, improving our 
cybersecurity, and just working better in the hybrid 
environment.
    Mr. Ryan. Okay. With that, I am going to go to my 
colleague, Ms. Herrera Beutler.

                         ACCESS TO AGENCY DATA

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you so much.
    Okay. Well, I wanted to ask--there was two questions I 
wanted to ask. During a Modernization Committee hearing, you 
noted that the public data doesn't always provide the level of 
information that you and your team need to complete your 
reports, and creating data user agreements with agencies and 
using that information can be hindered because of delays in 
creating the agreements.
    It should be a bipartisan priority, in my mind, to minimize 
the barriers to your work. So can you speak to how significant 
this roadblock is to CBO's work and what Congress could do to 
help ensure that you are getting the information that you need?
    Mr. Swagel. No, thank you. You know, we obtain data from 
many agencies, and for the most part it is smooth. You know, a 
challenge--you know, sometimes the challenge is getting the 
agreements in place, and we have about three dozen data-use 
agreements for protected information for nonpublic information, 
you know, from Census and IRS and other agencies.
    You know, one of the challenges we face is that the data 
generally remain in the possession of that agency. And, before 
the pandemic, our staff would go to, you know, go to Suitland 
or, you know, to work at the census or, you know, go to the--
like Treasury for IRS. In the pandemic, we have arranged for 
remote use on a temporary basis, and we are working now--as we 
emerge from the pandemic, we are working to make that 
permanent. And I am hopeful that we will--you know, we will 
succeed in that. And, obviously, of course, I would come back 
to the committee if I face challenges.
    I would say, one other challenge is sometimes with just 
fast-moving information getting information from agencies, you 
know, it is not a problem; it can just be, you know, they are 
not working at the same pace as we are. If the Appropriations 
Committee needs to, you know, know how much money is in an 
account, well, we--you know, the data that we have access to is 
generally 2 months old. And so we will have to reach out to the 
agency to get it, and they are just not always, you know, sort 
of working at the same speed as the Congress. And so that 
sometimes can be a challenge as well.

                        ADVISER DISCLOSURE FORMS

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you for that.
    Switching gears a little bit to conflicts of interest, CBO 
supports obviously the congressional budget process by 
providing analysis of budgetary and economic issues. And to 
help inform its work product, CBO makes use of an outside panel 
of advisers. And because outside experts can have conflicts of 
interest, CBO requires that your advisers annually submit forms 
to disclose, quote, substantial political activity and 
significant financial interest, which is pretty reasonable.
    Recently, CBO implemented a mechanism to allow for remote 
review of these disclosures forms, which I think is good. It is 
refreshing to see that the public can have the ability now to 
review these forms, but the access is timed and the forms are 
not downloadable. And I just wanted to understand the reasoning 
behind the process being implemented the way it is and to see 
if there is an effort to improve that accessibility and 
transparency. Are there any future plans to put the forms 
online?
    Mr. Swagel. Okay. No, no, thank you. And as you said, the 
panel of outside advisers is important to us, that we get 
advice. And so, for example, recently we had a meeting with 
some of the advisers on what is happening with interest rates 
and inflation, which is just, of course, a vexing problem for 
the Nation, but it is--for us in the budget, you know, it has 
an important impact on, you know, both revenues and spending. 
And so we do rely on the expertise.
    We are trying to balance the burden on them of the 
disclosure against, you know, of course, the importance of the 
transparency. So, when the system disclosure was set up, it was 
patterned after what the disclosure for congressional staff, 
and it is through the--is the House Legislative Resource 
Center. And so they are available, you know, to the public on 
request.
    During the pandemic, we put them online instead of just in 
person, as it was done before the pandemic. You know, to be 
honest, I am not sure what we are going to do after the 
pandemic. We are just--we are sort of coming to grips with that 
now as we transition back to in person. It has worked. I mean, 
it has worked having them available electronically.
    You are right; we haven't let people download, but we 
understand that, you know, people have, and so, if it is not on 
the screen, people can, you know, take a snapshot and have the 
information. So we are going to keep thinking about that, you 
know, as we emerge from the pandemic.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Sounds good. Thank you so much.
    I yield back, Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Herrera Beutler.
    Next is the distinguished gentlelady from Massachusetts, 
Ms. Clark.

                     STAFF RETENTION AND CHILDCARE

    Ms. Clark. Well, thank you, Chairman from Ohio and our 
ranking member from Washington.
    Director Swagel, it is really good to see you again. Thank 
you for being here. And, before the pandemic, we had a chance 
to talk about some of the issues you were having with losing 
staff to the private sector. We know this is unfortunately not 
unique to CBO, but you know how critical your mission is to how 
Congress functions.
    And you raised the issue that childcare is one of the real 
concerns for CBO staff and that they are at the bottom of the 
list for the childcare center, making it difficult to access 
affordable childcare. And you had mentioned that you were going 
to be conducting a survey, and I wondered if you could provide 
an update on the status or the outcomes of that survey, and 
anything in particular that your budget justification reflects 
those needs of staff?
    Mr. Swagel. Okay. No, no, thank you. And it is--it remains 
a key issue for us, and it is something we have thought a lot 
about, you know, both with the, you know, ongoing childcare 
needs and then also, during the pandemic, you know, just the 
particular difficulties that our staff with young children face 
and sometimes continue. You know, parents of ages zero to 4, 
they are like the--you know, a little bit left behind yet in 
the pandemic.
    And, you know, I realize it is a capacity issue for all 
congressional staff, but, you know, as we come back from the 
pandemic, it would be enormously helpful, you know, increase 
support for childcare, you know, for the entire campus. And I 
am not looking for CBO to jump ahead of anyone else, but, you 
know, we would use it, and that is really the result of our 
survey.
    And, of course, we did a lot of work on childcare for the 
Build Back Better plan, and so we have lots of analysis about 
what childcare would do, you know, to parents, and it is a 
microcosm of our issue.
    And then the budget request would help us, in some 
instances, as we emerge from the pandemic, we are coming back 
in person, but we are going to have more flexibility in a 
hybrid environment. And the budget request would support that. 
You know, the IT support that we have requested would really 
let us work better in a hybrid environment. You know, I think 
especially it would be helpful for parents with young children.

                               STAFF PAY

    Ms. Clark. That is great. And--yes, and I personally 
appreciate the CBO's work on the childcare and how often I 
asked and how great your team was to work with.
    Your budget justification also includes a pay increase of 
4.6 percent for staff making under $100,000 a year in addition 
to performance-based salary increases. This is nearly double 
your fiscal year 2022 request, and I just wondered how you got 
there. Is this tied into some of your survey and results and 
retention issues?
    Mr. Swagel. Yeah, no, thank you. You know, it is partly 
that, and it is partly our projection of inflation, you know, 
for next year, which, you know, in some instances, like I said 
before is one of the challenging aspects of the macro 
environment now. And so that is what the--you know, the 4.6 
percent, you know, as you said is for staff making less than 
$100,000 and, you know, some considerably less than that. 
Anyone making more than $100,000 gets performance increases 
only. You know, there is no across-the-board raise. And it is, 
as you said, it is for retention. I mean, essentially every CBO 
staff member took a real wage cut this year just because 
inflation outpaced, you know, our pay increases. You know, it 
was just a fact of life. And so we are hoping to, you know, 
make back up some of that ground--we are not going to fully 
make it back up--and then have money to target, in some 
instances, to target--you know, to target especially high-
achieving staff.

                             COST ESTIMATES

    Ms. Clark. That is great. And I will sneak one in real 
quick here at the end. I know that your number of formal cost 
estimates to Congress has continued to decline. I wondered if 
you had any recommendations for offices looking to determine 
the cost estimates of their legislation when they are unable to 
obtain a score from the CBO.
    Mr. Swagel. Yeah, you know, it is a challenge. In some 
instances, it is a challenge in two ways, that--as you said, 
the number of formal cost estimates we provided last year was 
lower than in the past, you know, 400 or so as opposed to 700 
or 800 in the past. And in some ways, it is a reflection of the 
legislation that we were dealing with.
    So, you know, the three major packages, ARPA, the IIJA--I 
was about to say the BIF, but, you know, everyone knows the 
infrastructure package, and Build Back Better. I mean, Build 
Back Better was over 200 pages of cost estimate. That counted 
as one.
    And so, in some instances, it was just, sort of more 
complex legislation where we are going back and forth, and then 
there is more suspension bills where we don't do a full cost 
estimate, you know, we will just put up a PAYGO table.
    Looking to this year and into the future, it seems like we 
are not going to have those same kind of massive legislation, 
and we will be more--you know, I suspect we are going to have 
just more cost estimates and little bit back to normal.
    I am sorry. I apologize for going over. For Members not 
being able to get a cost estimate from us, it is really a 
challenge. And, you know, in healthcare especially the work is 
so complex, and we are doing so much work for the committee 
chairs that we are just not able to produce cost estimates, you 
know, for Members other than the, you know, committee chairs 
and ranking members.
    We provide technical assistance and we will help Members 
develop the legislation, but almost always we just cannot get 
them a regular cost estimate. And I just--I don't have a 
solution. You know, I just don't--I don't think I could add 
enough people in healthcare to, you know, to do cost estimates 
for everyone.
    Ms. Clark. Thank you so much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you. Next is the distinguished gentleman 
from Nevada, Mr. Amodei. Mr. Amodei tends to appear and 
disappear periodically. He is the magic man.
    We will go next, Mr. Newhouse.

                       ADDRESSING STAFFING NEEDS

    Mr. Newhouse. Ah, thank you, sir, Mr. Chairman.
    Good afternoon, Mr. Director. Thanks for being with us 
today. Good to see you again.
    So, looking at your staffing report, part of your request 
you talk about having, I think, something over 200 analysts 
that have expertise in a whole host of policy areas, certainly 
they score bills and make assessments. You may or may not know, 
but in my real life, I am a farmer, and so certainly many of 
the priorities that I have in Congress fall within the 
agricultural or the food space, so to speak.
    So I am just curious, out of all of those 205 or so 
analysts, how many of them specifically have policy expertise 
in the agricultural or food-related areas? And as we approach 
another farm bill in 2023, do you intend to hire any new 
analysts in order to have the necessary expertise?
    And I guess it kind of leads to another even bigger 
question: I can't think of a great example, but as you handle 
kind of a cyclical demand for information, for instance, in a 
case of a farm bill, you know, what is your--how do you address 
that need for or increased--need for demand of information, and 
then it may taper off after a bit?
    Mr. Swagel. No, it is a great question. And it is--so I 
took over as director in June of 2019, and so I have not yet 
gone through the farm bill, which I know is a major 
undertaking, and CBO provides, you know, a huge amount of 
support. We have a dedicated group that focuses on, you know, 
on USDA and on ag issues. And, for example, every year, we 
convene a meeting of government experts on farm prices, and 
then we go essentially commodity by commodity on farm prices, 
and we host that.
    And so there is a sense in which we maintain that 
underlying expertise going forward. I am sorry; I don't know--I 
am just--I am trying to think of the people on the other end of 
the hallway here--how many focus on ag issues. It is not a huge 
number, but then we have others, for example, you know, with 
crop insurance, we have a group that does financial analysis, 
and they contribute to the work on, you know--this is cost 
estimates relating to farm insurance--to crop insurance, 
rather.
    So it is--yeah, I am sorry; I don't have the number. But, 
in some instances, you know, that is part of the strength of 
the organization is the flexibility. And so we have people, you 
know, by area, you know, by topic like ag, and then we have by 
function, like financial analysis, and bringing those two 
groups together.
    Mr. Newhouse. So they kind of cross over?
    Mr. Swagel. They do, yeah. Yeah.
    Mr. Newhouse. Okay. And maybe you don't know the exact 
number. It is not a large number, but I am certain it is the 
cream of the crop of your staff, so--well, thank you very much. 
Appreciate that.
    Mr. Chairman, I will yield back the balance of my time. You 
are muted, Mr. Chairman.

                          BASELINE COMPLETION

    Mr. Ryan. I knew that. I knew that.
    I would like to ask when the baseline will be completed.
    Mr. Swagel. Yeah.
    Mr. Ryan. Because we need that quickly for us to get moving 
here. So can you give us some kind of idea when that is going 
to be?
    Mr. Swagel. Yeah. So, I will give you, you know, two dates. 
You know, one is for the, you know, the final report. That is 
late in May, but we are aiming to transmit the information that 
the Appropriations Committee needs, you know, no later than May 
4.
    Now, if I can shave any time off of that and get it to the 
committees, you know, both the House and Senate, before then, I 
promise you the staff directors from both sides have explained 
to me in detail how important it is to have that information as 
soon as possible. And I have promised them that I will be in 
touch essentially, you know, weekly, you know, with updates if 
we can get our work done any sooner.
    Mr. Ryan. So you understand the urgency.
    Mr. Swagel. I do. I do. I absolutely do.
    Mr. Ryan. Okay.
    Mr. Swagel. Yeah.
    Mr. Ryan. Great.
    Distinguished gentleman from Hawaii, Mr. Case.

                         CBO SCORES AND TIMING

    Mr. Case. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Director, we have, what is in my view--I won't blame it on 
anybody else unless you want to join me--a pretty disturbing 
trend or temptation towards bringing very large bills up for 
votes, especially on the floor, unscored by CBO, no CBO score. 
We certainly had that discussion last year, and your team was 
incredible in terms of actually scoring Build Back Better.
    We see another example of that this week where we have got 
a bill that is at $55 billion, as far as I understand it, that 
may well be headed to the floor without a CBO score. And I am 
not asking you to weigh in on the merits or demerits of that. I 
am sure you have your view, but I am not going to engage you in 
the tug of wars over that. But I am going to ask whether there 
are mechanisms to at least remove the urgency of time to get a 
CBO score, at least minimize it, to get some kind of a sense? 
Like is there such a thing as a mini CBO score or a preliminary 
score? Or for that matter, are you asked routinely to score 
bills going into markup in committee as opposed to once a 
markup is finished?
    Now, I understand you have to fine-tune it after a markup--
that is an obvious one--before you get to the floor. But, I 
mean, I am looking for some ways, if the reason--if the true 
reason for some of these bills coming to the floor without a 
CBO score is some perceived need for speed, then, you know, 
number one, can you meet it? And, number two--and I am sure the 
answer is you are going to say, yes, we can, under most 
circumstances--but, number two, is there some way to get ahead 
of that so that we can at least get a better sense of the 
budgetary implications of some of these very, very large bills, 
especially over time?
    Mr. Swagel. Yeah. It is something we think a lot about is 
trying to balance that, you know, the speed and responsiveness, 
you know, against completeness and accuracy. And, you know, 
like I said before, for Build Back Better, we arrived at this 
new way of doing it by putting out the cost estimate, you know, 
incrementally, you know, essentially, you know, one title or a 
couple titles at a time.
    You know, a lot of times with the big, complex legislation, 
we are working bilaterally with the authorizing committees or 
sometimes with the leadership or multiple committees, you know, 
back and forth. You know, we call that technical assistance 
before the legislation is public. And so the authors of the 
legislation or the, you know, the members and staff developing 
the legislation will have a broad picture of the cost and maybe 
they will fine tune it. You know, they will give us a draft. We 
will say, you know: Look, it does this. We are not sure that is 
your intent.
    And, obviously, it is up to them, and say: Look, here is 
the cost, this provision, you know, it seems to cost more than 
you probably had in mind, and here is why.
    And they will fine tune it. So there is often a lot of back 
and forth, but until the legislation is public, we don't put 
out the cost estimate and provide the broad information. And so 
that, in some instances, that is the challenge that we face.
    And just the last part of the answer is, for some 
legislation, and this goes back to 2020, the CARES Act, you 
know, the third of the COVID responses, you know, it just came 
too quickly, and we just did not have the ability to, you know, 
to have the cost estimate. I think we had it 2 or 3 weeks later 
just because some of the provisions in there were complex.
    You know, so sometimes we just can't get it. But that--I am 
sorry, so let me just recap. You know, a lot of times, we will 
have partial information or preliminary information just not in 
the final public bill, and that is why it is not distributed 
more broadly.
    Mr. Case. But, I mean, it could be distributed if they had, 
you know, a million caveats on it, like assuming this, then 
this, then--if you don't change this provision of the bill, 
then this. And so those efforts are, you know, ongoing during 
bill development. I presume that people who are putting the 
bills together want to know what the costs are and the 
budgetary implications of various options in the bills, right? 
So you are working those things along the way, and that 
information could be public as opposed to getting to, you know, 
the final stamp of approval, CBO score?
    Mr. Swagel. Right. No, no, that is right. And, you know, 
again, generally that information is going on a bilateral basis 
to, you know, generally the committees and the committee staff.
    Mr. Case. You mean parallel. I mean, I guess, is that what 
you are saying, like bilateral versus as in budget versus 
authorizing, or like you are going down the road at the same 
time they are going down the road?
    Mr. Swagel. Yeah, exactly. So it is going--you know, say 
health legislation being developed, we will be working with, 
you know, say Ways and Means, you know, if it is in their 
jurisdiction, and we will be providing them feedback in the 
Senate, say the Finance Committee, you know, we will provide 
them, you know, initial information. It is not like a ballpark 
score, but maybe it is on some pieces of their legislation----
    Mr. Case. Right.
    Mr. Swagel [continuing]. And they will fine tune it.
    The childcare in Build Back Better had that same quality to 
it, that, you know, they had a certain allocation, and we 
worked--you know, again, they were in charge, but the committee 
would fine tune the legislation, and we would provide 
additional information on the cost and, you know, impact, 
number of children, number of States.
    Mr. Case. Okay. Great. Thank you so much. I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Case.
    The gentleman from Nevada, Mr. Amodei.
    Mr. Amodei. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. That was the most insightful questioning you have 
had on this committee in years.
    Mr. Amodei. Thank you for the compliment, and I will make 
sure and note that for the record.
    Mr. Ryan. The gentleman from New York, Mr. Espaillat.

                 CBO SCORING OF IMMIGRATION PROVISIONS

    Mr. Espaillat. Sorry not to be able to accommodate you in 
such a distinguished way, Mr. Chairman, but I do have some 
questions. Thank you.
    Yes, Director, the CBO scoring of immigration provisions in 
the past reconciliation bill, my first question, on November 2, 
2021, the CBO score plan A of the immigration provision that my 
colleagues and I fought very hard to secure in the Build Back 
Better initiative, CBO estimated that these immigration 
provisions would have cost the U.S. Government about $124 
billion over 10 years, which violated the Senate Budget 
Committee's fiscal year 2022 budget resolution, which would 
have capped the deficit of the provisions at $107 billion over 
10 years.
    According to the methodology published, the CBO predicted 
that a majority of the immigrants that would be legalized 
through this provision would, in fact, be using Federal social 
safety net programs, such as Medicaid, Medicare, Social 
Security, et cetera.
    Why didn't the methodology include data from Federal agency 
or think tanks to include or consider how granting citizenship 
to these undocumented individuals would have allowed for 
greater access to education and work opportunity, thus a 
significant positive impact to the Nation's economy and the tax 
space?
    Mr. Swagel. No, it is a great question. It is something we 
think about a lot. And you are absolutely right that--you know, 
again, this is not a normative response. The CBO has no opinion 
on the legislation, but it is absolutely right that 
legalization, you know, bringing people out of the shadows, you 
know, they would have a leg up and a ladder up to improve their 
skills. Their children, you know, in the same way, would have 
greater opportunities. You know, some of the children, of 
course, are citizens in the first place, but ones who are not.
    And so there would be long-lasting effects. Those effects 
generally come, you know, in scale outside the budget window. 
And inside the budget window, the challenge for us is that we 
include the economic contributions of people who are here 
already. And so, you know, the legislation that you referred to 
in the reconciliation would have provided access to, you know, 
social benefits, we already had the economic contributions of 
the people, and so--of people who were here already. And, in 
some instances, that was the challenge for the legislation is 
that we had--you know, we counted already.
    Mr. Espaillat. But if you had the contributions to the 
people that were already here, why wasn't that included in the 
formula to offset the difference that basically torpedoed the 
initiative, because that was the reason why it was shot down in 
the Senate because of the discrepancy in the 10-year period of 
$124 billion versus $107 billion?
    Mr. Swagel. No, no, that is exactly right, and I 
understand, yeah, the dynamic. And, in some instances, because 
we had that already, the legislation did not, you know, add an 
increment to that. Maybe the best way to think about it is 
there was previous legislation, before I was Director of the 
CBO score, as having a massive economic positive, and we did a 
dynamic score, you know, for immigration, that more immigrants 
would mean a larger labor force, a larger economy, that would 
mean higher incomes, and that would feed back into positive 
revenues. So it wouldn't pay for itself, but it would have a 
meaningful positive for the economy. And that was bringing new 
people in.
    And whereas this one in contrast was the people were 
already here so we already had their economic contributions, 
and that is why the legislation, in some instances, it didn't--
you know, it didn't give those additional positives. And, 
again, you know, that is not a normative comment, and there is 
so many contributions of immigrants. It just didn't have the 
new ones in ways that we didn't have already, and that is why 
we couldn't include it in the----
    Mr. Espaillat. Well, I look forward to working with you in 
the future to address this particular issue as it sort of like 
contributes to the narrative that immigrants come in to milk 
the system as opposed to getting up very early in the morning 
and taking care of our frail, elderly, cutting our grass, 
taking care of our kids, delivering food to our houses, and 
doing all the things they did during the pandemic for us to 
stay alive.
    So thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Ms. Wexton. Mr. Chairman, you are muted, but I assume you 
are calling on me. I am not sure.
    Mr. Ryan. Sorry. Ms. Wexton, the distinguished gentlelady 
from Virginia.
    Ms. Wexton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member.
    And, Director Swagel, it is great to have you back with us 
today. You know, I enjoyed reading your bio, and I saw how your 
professional progression went from the lesser institutions than 
the University of Chicago and Northwestern to the University of 
Maryland. I am very pleased that you elevated yourself to work 
at the University of Maryland, of which I am an alumna.
    Mr. Swagel. Yes.
    Ms. Wexton. And then eventually reaching your highest and 
best use as Director of CBO, so it is great to have you with us 
and delightful to have you back in front of our committee 
again.
    So most the questions that I had have already been 
answered, but I would like to follow up just briefly on a 
couple of the questions from Mr. Espaillat, because I am 
curious, you know, when you say that they were already getting 
their economic benefit of the people who were undocumented into 
the economy, what about like is there a way that you can score 
for the fact they would instead be paying taxes that would be, 
you know, there would be payroll taxes, there would be FICA, 
there would be all the Medicare taxes and everything associated 
with their employment? I mean, can you account for that?
    Mr. Swagel. Yes, so we do have some of that. And, of 
course, absolutely, people--immigrants pay taxes, including 
undocumented immigrants. They pay sales taxes. As you said, 
they pay FICA. You know, if they are legalized, they come on 
the books, they might pay some, you know, additional FICA, and, 
you know, we try to analyze that. You know, the scale of that 
increment is still pretty modest, you know, against the cost, 
and that is essentially what shows up in our estimates.
    Ms. Wexton. So you have to assume that every single one of 
them would take advantage of public benefits, or do you do it 
based on like the regular population?
    Mr. Swagel. Yeah, we do it based on--essentially, we try to 
drill down into the population of who would gain legal status. 
And so, you know, we go by, you know, by the age distribution 
and male, female, and so on, and, you know, different ages 
especially get different benefits.

                            TELEWORK AT CBO

    Ms. Wexton. Okay. I see. And then, back to the issue of the 
employees at CBO and what you are doing in terms of telework, 
and you had indicated in your earlier testimony that you guys 
were looking at a maximum telework or having a hybrid model 
going forward, I guess. And when you appeared before us last 
year, you said that you were surveying the workforce there to 
determine whether they wanted to continue with remote 
employment and stuff like that. Can you tell us what the 
results of that were? I would assume that people like the 
flexibility of the remote option.
    Mr. Swagel. Yes, that is right, and people did. It has been 
interesting, they still want to come back, you know, for the 
most part. And so we are going to end up about 2 and a half 
days a week on average in the office, you know, for required in 
the office, and we will have a concept of core days. So 
Tuesdays and Wednesdays, you know, essentially the entire 
staff, you know, with the exception of, you know, a small 
number of people who have the option to remote work, you know, 
essentially 100 percent of the time.
    But we will have 2, you know, 2 and a half days on average 
when everyone is here, and then the other days, there will be 
flexibility. And it seems like that is a good balancing act. 
And we are phasing that in, you know, over time, so by July, 
you know, I think we are going to be back at that equilibrium.
    Ms. Wexton. You haven't seen any impairment of the work 
product as a result of the teleworking, have you?
    Mr. Swagel. You know, being in person is definitely better. 
We have fulfilled our mission, so I feel like we have done our 
job. You know, there have been times, like for Build Back 
Better, you know, sort of the end of Build Back Better, we were 
in person. I mean, there were just dozens of people, and, you 
know----
    Ms. Wexton. Right, because you can't have that 
collaboration as much when you are working remote, that is for 
sure.
    Mr. Swagel. Yeah. Yeah. So I am looking forward to being in 
person. Actually, just today I met a staffer who has been here 
for 2 years. I met her in person for the first time, and she 
was just so excited to be back, so we are looking forward to 
that.
    Ms. Wexton. Wonderful. Great. Well, thank you so much, 
Director. I don't have any more questions. But before I go, 
before I yield back, I do want to just indicate that I really 
appreciate all your work on childcare and your comments about 
how it would benefit your workforce and the entire campus 
really. So thank you very much.
    Mr. Swagel. Thank you.
    Ms. Wexton. And, with that, I will yield back, Mr. 
Chairman.

                     Chairman Ryan Closing Remarks

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Wexton.
    And that is going wrap it up for us. Thank you so much for 
all your good work, and please let your team know how much we 
appreciate it. We know it is not an easy job, but we do want to 
push on getting those numbers to us as soon as humanly 
possible. So thank you so much for your time and service to 
your country.
    And, with that, this hearing is adjourned.
    Mr. Swagel. Thank you.

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                                            Tuesday, April 5, 2022.

                     CONGRESSIONAL WORKPLACE RIGHTS

                               WITNESSES

TERESA M. JAMES, ACTING EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF CONGRESSIONAL 
    WORKPLACE RIGHTS
JOHN D. UELMEN, GENERAL COUNSEL, OFFICE OF CONGRESSIONAL WORKPLACE 
    RIGHTS

                   Opening Statement of Chairman Ryan

    Mr. Ryan. The committee will come to order. This hearing is 
fully virtual, so we need to address a few housekeeping 
matters. Members are responsible for muting and unmuting 
themselves. For the purposes of eliminating inadvertent 
background noise, the chair or staff designated by the chair 
may mute participants' microphones when they are not under 
recognition. If I notice when you are recognized that you have 
not unmuted yourself, I will ask you if you would like the 
staff to unmute you. If you indicate approval by nodding, staff 
will unmute your microphone.
    We will begin with the chair and ranking member. Then 
members present at the time the hearing is called to order will 
be recognized in order of seniority. We are using the 5-minute 
clock, which we will adhere to strictly today, which you will 
notice on your screen. It will show how much time is remaining.
    If there is a technology issue, we will move to the next 
member until the issue is resolved, and you will retain the 
balance of your time in fairness.
    Finally, in regard to adding extraneous or additional 
material to the record, per House rules, we have set up an 
email address where members can send anything they wish to 
submit for the record after seeking recognition for its 
inclusion. And that email address has been provided in advance 
to your staff.
    I would like to welcome the Acting Executive Director of 
the Office of Congressional Workplace Rights, Teresa James; and 
General Counsel of the Office of Congressional Workplace 
Rights, John Uelmen, to present the fiscal year 2023 budget 
request.
    The Office of Congressional Workplace Rights is responsible 
for administering the Congressional Accountability Act for the 
approximately 30,000 employees in the legislative branch. The 
mission of the office is to continue assisting the legislative 
branch community in creating and maintaining a workplace that 
is safe, accessible, and free from discrimination and other 
unlawful employment practices.
    In the last year, your office has worked on education 
initiatives for the House workforce, including Members, in 
addition to implementing cybersecurity improvements, necessary 
IT systems, and network upgrades in line with governmentwide 
security standards. You are also working towards full migration 
of a risk-based management suite.
    The upgrades you made in the last year were important 
factors to ensuring that staff courses on preventing 
discrimination and harassment, including sexual harassment in 
the workplace, could be more widely available and managed 
within the House network. I am encouraged that OCWR continues 
to work on modernization and look forward to hearing your 
comments on your request.
    OCWR fiscal year 2023 budget request of $7.5 million is 
flat with the fiscal year 2022 enacted total and includes an 
additional full-time employee, full-time equivalent. While 70 
percent of your budget goes towards pay and benefits for these 
employees, you are also enhancing several of your programs. I 
look forward to your testimony today.
    And, at this point, I would like to yield to my colleague, 
the distinguished lady from Washington State and ranking 
member, Jaime Herrera Beutler, for any opening comments that 
she would like to make.

          Opening Statement of Ranking Member Herrera Beutler

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And welcome, Ms. James.
    The Office of Congressional Workplace Rights fiscal 2023 
request is $7.5 million dollars, which is the same as your 2022 
enacted level, which I don't think we have seen that yet. OCWR 
is an independent, nonpartisan office that ensures that the 
congressional workplace is safe, free from discrimination, and 
accessible to the public.
    And, in addition to your regular work in administering the 
Congressional Accountability Act, your office has also recently 
been engaged in discussions regarding staff unionization. Over 
25 years ago, OCWR drafted regulations on how staffers could 
unionize, and then this year you dusted off that language and 
confirmed that the regulations as drafted would still 
effectively create the legal framework necessary for 
congressional staff to unionize.
    And, as a former congressional staffer, I understand the 
very unique working situation that staff here face, but I do 
have several concerns on how this effort is being considered 
and questions on how it would be implemented. This has also 
implications that relate directly to your office as the topic 
presents a resources issue when you are asked to provide 
briefings, provide certification approval for petitions, and 
other support to ensure unionization efforts are done properly, 
and I am curious to just hear your thoughts on that matter.
    I appreciate you and the work of your team, your staff to 
protect the rights of the 30,000 employees on Capitol Hill, to 
assure access for persons with disabilities, and educating our 
constituency on the Congressional Accountability Act mandate.
    So, with that, Mr. Chairman, thank you and I yield back.

                     CHAIRMAN OUTLINES PROCEEDINGS

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you.
    Without objection, your written testimony will be made part 
of the record. Executive Director James, please summarize your 
statement for the members of the committee. Once you have 
finished your statement, we will move to the question-and-
answer period. Please begin. The floor is yours.

                      Testimony of Teresa M. James

    Ms. James. Okay. Thank you, Chairman Ryan and Ranking 
Member Herrera Beutler, and distinguished members of the 
subcommittee. On behalf of the Office of Congressional 
Workplace Rights, I thank you for the opportunity to discuss 
with you our budget request and justification for fiscal year 
2023 and our progress on our ongoing mission to advance 
workplace rights, safety and health, and accessibility in the 
legislative branch.
    The OCWR is one of the smallest organizations of its kind, 
yet its mandate to apply 14 workplace and accessibility laws to 
the legislative branch is extremely broad. The OCWR manages an 
administrative dispute resolution program to resolve workplace 
claims arising under the CAA. We investigate, enforce, and 
resolve matters concerning safety and health, public access, 
and labor management laws applied to the legislative branch. We 
provide a program of education and outreach concerning 
workplace rights and responsibilities, and we advise Congress 
on whether provisions of law relating to employment should be 
made applicable to the legislative branch.
    To perform this mandate, the OCWR is requesting to remain 
at the fiscal year 2022 funding level of $7.5 million with $2 
million remaining available until September 2024. The OCWR is 
also requesting one additional FTE for fiscal year 2023 to 
manage the office's program required by the Reform Act, to 
permanently retain records of investigations, mediations, 
hearings, and other matters, and to administer the office's 
records management function and perform other related duties as 
assigned.
    This year marks the 26th year or the anniversary of the 
passage of the Congressional Accountability Act and the second 
full year implementing the provisions of the CAA Reform Act. 
Most of our experience operating under these new reforms was 
acquired while working remotely as a result of the COVID-19 
pandemic, yet we have been able to adapt and meet these 
challenges.
    Confidential advising, case adjudication, and mediation 
under our administrative dispute resolution program continues 
in a virtual environment. We continue to provide training and 
education resources to employees on the Hill and throughout the 
country via our new website and videoconferencing platforms, 
such as Zoom for Government.
    Our training and education materials are directed to the 
entire congressional workforce, from Members of Congress and 
senior staff to entry level employees. They focus on underlying 
practices and behaviors that can lead to discrimination and 
create a hostile work environment. And they can be tailored to 
the needs of specific workplaces and groups of employees.
    In addition to these resources, our Office of General 
Counsel regularly conducts brown bag lunch seminars for the 
legislative branch community on current legal developments. 
Moreover, safety and health and accessibility inspections also 
continue. And where our inspectors need to be in the physical 
workplace, they follow guidelines issued by the Office of the 
Attending Physician and the CDC.
    In addition to these responsibilities, we are in the 
process of administering our second annual workplace climate 
survey for the legislative branch, as is required by the Reform 
Act.
    Our office also has taken action to implement new laws 
under the CAA, such as the new provisions of the Family and 
Medical Leave Act that grant paid parental leave to legislative 
branch employees and the Fair Chance to Compete Act, which 
places restrictions on employing office's ability to request 
criminal history information from job applicants prior to 
extending a conditional offer of employment.
    Although implementing the Reform Act began in fiscal year 
2019, many initiatives will require ongoing funding in fiscal 
year 2023 and beyond. For example, the OCWR's secure e-filing 
system requires continued cybersecurity upgrades and design 
modifications to assure information security and 
confidentiality. Online training and educational models must be 
developed and continually updated to reflect changes in the 
law. And the legislative branch climate survey will require 
ongoing funding to administer every 2 years as mandated by the 
Reform Act.
    In sum, our fiscal year 2023 budget request focuses on 
supporting the OCWR's statutory functions and assuring the 
delivery of services to the congressional community. 
Additionally, funding will be supported on unanticipated 
increases associated with continued implementation and 
administration of changes set forth in the Reform Act.
    I thank the members of the subcommittee for their 
unwavering support for the critical work that we do, and the 
privilege of your time, and I look forward to answering your 
questions.
    [The information follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
                       MEMBER AND STAFF TRAINING

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. We are going to 
jump right into the question and answers.
    And I know that you provide program of education and 
training for Members of Congress and the legislative branch 
staff, and the request that you have here includes $260,000 for 
nonpersonnel services for the education and outreach program. 
And we would like to understand a little bit better how you are 
utilizing your funding to adapt the training to the changes 
within the House work environment over the last couple of 
years. How have you adapted to training to support a hybrid 
work environment through the pandemic? Do you feel more people 
have used the--or attended the training using the online model? 
And I will let you answer those and----
    Ms. James. Thank you.
    Mr. Ryan. Go ahead.
    Ms. James. We have always trained on the provisions of the 
Congressional Accountability Act, but it wasn't mandated before 
the Reform Act. So now we are able to provide training on the 
Congressional Accountability Act on the process to resolve 
claims on the protections that are provided to staff. However, 
we also understand that the House has its own mandated 
training, and so that is not something that we provide, but 
that is something that we could provide.
    We also do train other instrumentalities on Capitol Hill 
regarding their workplace rights and protections under the 
Congressional Accountability Act. And so we modify our 
training, as needed. Some of the training not only includes the 
Congressional Accountability Act in those provisions, but we 
have training on implicit bias, and we recently developed a 
video, which I believe the House is now sharing on its website, 
which is fabulous, but that is something that we developed last 
year.
    We also provide training on bystander intervention, so in 
other words, if you see something, say something. It is ways to 
constructively intervene, to distract someone, to provide 
supportive behavior, to report an incident if you see one. 
Civilian inclusion, we also train on that and on racial equity 
and how to prevent discrimination and harassment in the 
workforce, and we continue to develop training. We are working 
on a module right now on ageism. So, you know, we look at what 
the substantive provisions of the act are and develop training 
that speaks to and supports those rules and regulations.
    Mr. Ryan. When it comes to the bystander intervention, does 
the training give the employees the examples that basically 
coach you up on how to intervene? Is that part of it?
    Ms. James. Yeah. Basically, it says, you know, if you see 
something, you know, if there is something going on in your 
office and you know that it is inappropriate, you can support 
someone. You can intervene if you see something. You can tell 
your supervisor: Hey, you know, I am seeing something that is 
happening over here and I think you need to say something to 
someone.
    It really is, you know, designed to help people without 
creating more conflict in the workplace to effectively 
intervene.
    Mr. Ryan. And I am assuming there is a nuance in the 
training for a supervisor versus non-supervisor. Is that true?
    Ms. James. Right. I mean, we want to encourage staff to 
not--you know, if they see a situation that could be very 
problematic, maybe they don't want to get involved, and they 
should go to the supervisor, and the supervisor has the 
authority to intervene.

                     CYBERSECURITY RISK MANAGEMENT

    Mr. Ryan. In the GAO--switching gears here a bit real 
quick, the GAO found weaknesses in the project planning 
oversight system in cybersecurity risk management. Back in 
February 2020, they made five recommendations to OCWR to 
address these weaknesses, but as far as I know, there hasn't 
been any--they haven't been fully addressed.
    So what is the status of your response to the 
recommendations from the GAO? How do you plan to apply the 
funding that you requested today for this year toward 
implementing these recommendations? And what would the cost be 
to fully implement their recommendations?
    Ms. James. So we have been working with the Library of 
Congress and other service providers to ensure that we have 
addressed all of the issues. I believe we have got a little 
more time. We are working toward making sure that the systems 
are as fully safe as possible. And, you know, I am--
unfortunately, I lack a certain IT expertise here, but it is 
something that we have been taking very seriously, and we have 
been working with the service providers to ensure that all the 
information is fully protected.
    Mr. Ryan. And do you know the cost to fully implement?
    Ms. James. I do not.
    Mr. Ryan. If not, you can--yeah, if you could get it to us.
    Ms. James. We will do that.
    Mr. Ryan. Okay. Great.
    Distinguished gentlewoman from Washington State, Ms. 
Herrera Beutler.

     RECOMMENDATIONS TO UPDATE THE CONGRESSIONAL ACCOUNTABILITY ACT

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Let's see, I am going to start with the--well, maybe the 
shorter one first. Ms. James, last year OCWR's biannual report 
to Congress was released and contains about a half a dozen 
recommendations to update the Congressional Accountability Act. 
Some recommendations include whistleblower protections, 
providing subpoena authority to aid in trafficking, safety and 
health investigations, and approving the board's FMLA 
regulations once they are resubmitted. What processes have been 
made in the last year toward these recommendations, and what 
would it take to fully implement all of your recommendations?
    Ms. James. Well, I think some of it requires some action on 
Congress' part. Our board is able to adopt regulations, but 
Congress has to pass them for them to become effective. And so 
the 102B report the board, you know, sends every 2 years saying 
these are our priorities and this is what we are hoping the 
Congress is able to move forward for us.

                              UNIONIZATION

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Okay. Thank you.
    Switching over to the issue of unionization, until the OCWR 
recently reviewed the regulations, for almost 30 years, the 
proposed unionization regulations hadn't been debated, 
researched, or even seriously thought about on Capitol Hill. 
Allowing congressional staff to unionize potentially, in my 
mind, creates numerous conflicts of interest and I think would 
definitely have an impact on a Member's constitutional 
responsibilities in terms of influencing how a Member makes 
decisions about policy.
    This I think needs to be carefully thought out before 
putting anything into action, and so a couple of things: During 
OCWR's recent review of the regulations, did your team give any 
thought to the potential conflicts of interest congressional 
unions could create, and if so, what potential conflicts did 
your team consider? And then, with these potential conflicts in 
mind, does OCWR plan to develop guidance on the organization 
and management of the unions in the House of Representatives?
    Ms. James. So, yes, we have guidance, and it is available 
on our website at OCWR.gov. There are frequently asked 
questions and other information. We do know that the process 
would be very complex because of the nature of Capitol Hill. We 
also understand that, you know, the implementation is going to 
be something that, as Members, you know, need to run for office 
every 2 years, that it creates additional issues.
    We have with us John Uelmen, who is our general counsel and 
who deals directly with some of these issues.
    I don't know, John, do you want to step in here?
    Mr. Uelmen. Well, you know, the only thing I would add is 
that, you know, the regulations, which are developed and passed 
by the board, they are largely procedural, and so they have 
procedures in place. The big question for them, whether there 
were procedures in place that could address the issues that you 
are talking about. And so they were satisfied that the 
regulations that were proposed back in 1996 do have those 
regulations.
    So, essentially, the procedures----
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. The board felt like the regulations 
that were developed in 1997 would address the conflicts of 
interest. How is that possible considering like, you know, 
there is a--the whole media world that has changed in that 
amount of time in terms of communication online and with 
constituents? The board felt like the regulations were 
adequately would address all that?
    Mr. Uelmen. I think what you are misunderstanding, the 
regulations--the question for them is whether the procedures 
were adequate. Those questions are raised in individual 
proceedings. In other words, if somebody believes there is a 
conflict of interest, you know, having somebody represented, 
they can raise that in a representation petition. So the 
question for the board was whether the procedures in place 
would be adequate to address questions that were raised, you 
know, in particular organizing efforts.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. All right. Well, I don't know that I 
have--I don't have a--see a timer up, Mr. Chairman, so I don't 
know how much time I have or if I am done.
    But I would say, Mr. Uelmen, and maybe Ms. James, that 
those are things--I didn't understand the answer to that 
question completely. And if it is hard for me to understand, I 
would guess that it would be hard for--it is not clear to me 
even what the answer was there.
    So, in terms of addressing this and numerous other 
questions, I think maybe--I don't know if frequently asked 
questions on the website is going to do it. I would maybe 
prefer to have a little bit more detail from you on this to see 
if you could address those things or if there is more stuff 
that needs to be done regulatory wise or in law. That is 
essentially what I am getting at.
    So, with that, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Yeah, appreciate it. I mean, I always want to 
ensure rights. I think we need to look to the House 
Administration Committee too and seek their guidance as to what 
the next steps are going to be.
    Next is the distinguished gentlewoman from Massachusetts, 
Ms. Clark.

               ADVANCING WORKPLACE RIGHTS AND PROTECTIONS

    Ms. Clark. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you, Director James, for joining us.
    I wanted to go back to the Congressional Climate Survey 
that you mentioned in your opening remarks. And I wondered, as 
you are working on the second biennial survey, were there any 
findings or trends that you were able to discern from the first 
survey completed in fiscal year 2021, and how have those 
findings informed your work to advance workforce rights and 
protections?
    Ms. James. Thank you. The climate survey was quite a lift. 
The results fortunately were very positive. I think that, you 
know, we were happy to find that most staffers feel very 
comfortable in their workplace environment. We are able to take 
the information and utilize that as we develop training. We 
will be shortly rolling out the next climate survey. We are 
required to do this every 2 years, so it will be coming out 
shortly again for staff. And we encourage them to take the 
survey, because the more information that we can gather, the 
more significant the data is. So----
    Ms. Clark. What sort of actions are you taking to increase 
awareness about the survey?
    Ms. James. So, when the survey goes out, staff get repeated 
messages through their email, and this is all confidential. We 
don't know--you know, everything has been taken care of sort of 
electronically where nobody knows exactly who is connecting 
certain results with what individual. So that is why they get 
repeated messages saying: Take the survey, take the survey.
    We have information up on our website about the survey. We 
put it out with our newsletters saying: Take the survey. 
Because obviously the more people who take it, the more 
reliable the information is. And so, like I said, it should be 
going out shortly. We are still working with our Oversight 
Committee on a couple of things, and then this will be going 
out.

                          PAID PARENTAL LEAVE

    Ms. Clark. Great. Speaking of promoting awareness, you 
mentioned the paid parental leave law, the Federal Employee 
Paid Leave Act signed into law in 2019. Where are you in the 
process of amending your existing regulations to address these 
new provisions?
    Ms. James. So we have proposed new regulations. You know, 
as far as we are concerned, the provision is applicable 
regardless of, you know, the status of the regulations. It is 
important that we put out again with our newsletters and other 
informational materials that this is available for staff.
    Ms. Clark. And I noted that, in your budget request, you 
said you are doing presentations on the topic of paid parental 
leave to help ensure the legislative community knows their 
rights. Are there additional ways that you are ensuring staff 
and offices understand this new law?
    Ms. James. Well, the information is available on our 
website. We include it in our training. So we do have trainers 
who have been currently, for I guess the last 2 years actually, 
have been training via, you know, Zoom just to reach the 
different staff while everybody has been working remotely. But 
they cover that sort of information in their training as well.

                    DISCRIMINATION REPORTING PROCESS

    Ms. Clark. Great. One thing that I am hearing anecdotally 
is reports that staffers do not often see the official 
complaint process for discrimination or harassment as an 
option. They think--they have doubts that the process will be 
worth the result. And so what would you say--I know you have 
done a lot of work on this area. What would you say to a 
staffer who is hesitant to engage with the grievance process?
    Ms. James. I would suggest that anyone who has a concern 
about their workplace issues, if they don't feel comfortable 
approaching their supervisor to say, ``Hey, something is going 
on,'' that they can always call our office and speak to our 
confidential adviser. The confidential adviser can give them 
information about how the CAA applies to their issue and give 
them information on the process. But they can also talk with 
them through ways that matters might be resolved without having 
to go through a complaint process.
    If the employee feels as though they are not able to 
resolve it on their own, they can certainly go through our 
process. Employees of the House are represented by the Office 
of House Advocacy, so there are different, you know, offices in 
the House that can also assist staff.
    We serve the broad legislative branch, you know, staff, so 
including House, we have Senate, Library of Congress, Capitol 
Police, and others. But we do have a process that is, you know, 
very friendly to staff to make sure that they understand how to 
use it.
    Mediation is an option under our process. It used to be 
mandatory. Our board recommends that parties take advantage of 
the mediation process, and a value to that is that an issue can 
be resolved by agreement between the parties without the 
employee having to take their case to court or to a hearing 
process and prove that they are victim of some kind of 
discrimination or that their FMLA rights have been violated.
    So it is an opportunity for parties to say: Hey, this is a 
less-than-ideal situation that we are in, but we think that we 
can resolve this by an agreement between us.
    And so I think that the mediation process really needs to 
be reexamined as a way for people to promptly resolve their 
issues.
    Ms. Clark. I see that I am out of time. Thank you, Director 
James.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you.
    The distinguished gentleman from Nevada, Mr. Amodei.
    Mr. Amodei. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since you were so 
complimentary about the last questioning thing, I am going to 
yield back, except I want to compare your score on this year's 
training test with mine to see which one of us scored better on 
the test. Other than that, I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you.
    The gentleman from--distinguished gentleman from Hawaii, 
Mr. Case.

                               BUDGETING

    Mr. Case. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am not going to get into 
your guys' contest. It sounds pretty difficult.
    Ms. James, so I am just trying to understand the budget 
request. It is a level budget request, right?
    Ms. James. Right.
    Mr. Case. Pardon?
    Ms. James. Yes.
    Mr. Case. Okay. No increase, but you do talk here about, in 
your testimony I think it was, about increasing--70 percent 
reflects personnel cost including increased compensation and 
benefits associated with additional staff hired. So I guess 
that implies to me that you are allocating more of a level 
budget over on the personnel side for those increases and thus 
reducing it somewhere else?
    Ms. James. Well, we are asking to maintain $2 million to 
roll over to the next year. We have one FTE open that we would 
like to fill, so part of it is personnel issues. The other 
thing is we don't control the number of claims that come to our 
office or the issues related to investigations that are 
conducted. So we can't always control the expenditures.
    So, if we have people who go to hearing, and hearings can 
be very lengthy, then we may end up needing to have more money 
available to conduct hearings, or, you know, as we saw with the 
January 6 event, we needed money available to be able to, you 
know, investigate and take a look at any OSHA violations.
    So, within our limited budget, and as you see, our budget 
is relative to many other budgets rather minor, and we do the 
most with what we have, but we do find ourselves in a situation 
where we may need money that can roll over to the next year.
    Mr. Case. Okay. Maybe I am getting myself confused. So what 
exactly is that $2 million? Because if you have a level 
budget--I am just kind of going back to my question. If you 
have a level budget and your FTEs are staying level as well, 
are you increasing by--you want to increase by one FTE?
    Ms. James. Right, we want to increase by one FTE.
    Mr. Case. So where are you paying for your increased 
staffing from if your budget is level? What is this $2 million 
carryover? Is that where it is coming from?
    Ms. James. Contractors. So, in other words, you know, when 
our cases go up, cases now go through two hearing processes, a 
preliminary hearing review and then a merits hearing. So, under 
the new process, it has gotten a little bit more complicated 
and a lot more expensive. So we don't know if we will have, you 
know, 30 cases this year or 60 cases this year. We don't know, 
you know, what will come out of, you know, the general 
counsel's investigations. We don't know what kind of support he 
may need if there are any significant issues that occur on 
Capitol Hill.
    Mr. Case. Is that $2 million part of the $7.5 million?
    Ms. James. Yes, it is.
    Mr. Case. Okay. That explains it to me. All right. Sorry 
about that.
    Ms. James. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Case. I mean, I guess the question then is, why aren't 
your FTEs going up? I mean, you seem to have an increased 
workload. You are being asked to do more, and we see other 
parts of the leg branch asking for increases in the FTE count. 
I am not saying you should or shouldn't; I am just asking the 
question of why you are not going up. Do you just have capacity 
there already, or you have decided you are going to make do 
with the FTEs that you have, or the contractors give you some 
flexibility in terms of stable FTEs?
    Ms. James. So the contractors give us some flexibility. We 
also have staff that work very hard because they wear many 
hats. You know, we know that FTEs are hard to come by, so, you 
know, we would love to have five more, but we figure, you know, 
one more at least is getting us closer to, you know, a 
manageable situation. But, yes, you know, again, we don't know 
what any coming year is going to bring, especially as we saw 
last year.
    Mr. Case. Is there any one part of your responsibilities, 
like one area of concern, that you just see ramping up faster 
than you expected or you are projecting it to go up faster 
because of, you know, external conditions or whatever the case 
might be? Is there any one area that we should kind of be 
watching for--or, you know, real pressure on your budget?
    Ms. James. The only thing that probably would be the 
strongest pressure on our budget would be the labor management 
issues, you know, if we had to, you know, quickly pick up and 
bring on people and conduct, you know, elections, you know, in 
hundreds of offices, that might be quite intense.
    Mr. Case. Okay. Great. Thanks so much. I yield back.
    Ms. James. Thank you.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Case.
    Next is the distinguished gentleman from the State of 
Washington, Mr. Newhouse.

                              TRANSPARENCY

    Mr. Newhouse. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Good afternoon, Ms. James. Thanks for being with us today. 
I appreciate that.
    I just had a couple of questions, and I am sure everybody--
we got a copy of your fiscal year 2023 budget request. I am 
sure everybody on the committee did. However, just a quick 
search at your website, we couldn't find a similar copy of your 
request for fiscal year 2023 or any prior years either. So, 
just curious, for the sake of transparency, would you think it 
is important to provide that kind of a budget request on your 
website?
    Ms. James. We can certainly do that. There isn't anything--
you know, any reason why it is not up there. We have redone our 
website. We have just redone it recently, so we are still 
finding where things can be improved, and we would be happy to 
put that information on the website.

                     MEASURABLE PERFORMANCE METRICS

    Mr. Newhouse. Okay. Good. Just a little thing we noticed 
that might be helpful.
    So, in I believe it was December of 2019, the GAO in their 
work did a study on your agency's management practices. I am 
sure you are much too familiar with that. The agency, I 
understand, that you implemented several of their 
recommendations, and one of them was that the OCWR identify 
desired performance results and develop performance measures 
and report progress toward those results.
    Now, your budget request states that you are in the process 
of finalizing a strategic plan for the years 2021 through 2026, 
so you are still finalizing that strategic plan, which will 
include those measurable performance metrics. So two questions: 
How soon do you think the committee can expect to receive a 
copy of that report? And then how do you intend to implement 
changes and make those budget requests if you don't have that 
final strategic plan?
    Ms. James. We do have a strategic plan, and we may be 
making some modifications to it. But we do have our 2021 
through 2026 strategic plan, and that will, you know, guide us 
in many things. And so we will be reporting on the results of 
that. Also, I believe it won't be until summer that we will 
have worked through some of these issues with respect to the 
findings that you reference.
    Mr. Newhouse. So maybe I just misread that, but your budget 
request talks about the fact that you are in the process of 
finalizing that plan.
    Ms. James. Right. So we hope to have the plan done soon, 
but it is not done yet.
    Mr. Newhouse. Okay. And so when do you think we can get 
that report?
    Ms. James. I would guess sometime in the next couple of 
months.
    Mr. Newhouse. Okay.
    Ms. James. Yeah.
    Mr. Newhouse. Okay. Very good. Well, thank you again for 
being with us today. I appreciate what you do.
    And, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back.
    Ms. James. Thank you.
    Mr. Ryan. Mr. Newhouse, yeah, we will be anxious to get 
that report as soon as we can.
    The distinguished gentlewoman from Virginia, Ms. Wexton.
    Ms. Wexton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

                      CONGRESSIONAL CLIMATE SURVEY

    And thank you, Ms. James, for joining us here today and for 
all that you are doing to keep our employees safe and content 
in their jobs.
    So, I guess, you know, one of the things I realize from 
these committees, the subcommittee, is how a lot of us have the 
same questions, and for whatever reason, the gentlelady from 
the Commonwealth of Massachusetts always seems to ask the 
questions that I have before I come up and get my turn.
    But there is one question I would ask about the 
Congressional Climate Survey that is coming up. How do you 
decide what questions to put on there? And do you just recycle 
the same questions from the previous year, or do you base it on 
what is actually happening on the ground? Or how do you decide 
what questions end up----
    Ms. James. So we do work with our oversight committees, and 
there is some discussion about the questions and how best to 
ask the questions and what way is going to clarify what the 
question is that is being asked so that we make sure that we 
work with the contractor who has experience in, you know, 
conducting these kinds of surveys. So it is very important that 
we have a mixture of the experience that our contractor brings 
to the table and the experience that we have and our oversight 
committees have in understanding the environment here in the 
legislative branch.
    Ms. Wexton. So, for example, this year, as the ranking 
member pointed out, there is an issue going on with the 
possibility of unionizing here. So is that something you would 
ask about in the Congressional Climate Survey, kind of do a 
little straw poll or to see if people have an interest in it or 
if they----
    Ms. James. Well----
    Ms. Wexton [continuing]. By that?
    Ms. James. That may be something that hasn't been finalized 
yet, so it may be something that we are taking--will be taking 
a look at as we work with our oversight committees on that 
issue. If there is some energy in that direction, then we would 
do so, absolutely.
    Ms. Wexton. I mean, I just think it might be a good idea 
just because it is a completely anonymous survey, and we could 
get a good idea after whether there is even an interest among 
the workforce to do so.
    Ms. James. Yeah, that is an excellent idea.
    Ms. Wexton. Thank you very much.
    And, with that, I will yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Wexton.
    Next is the distinguished gentleman from New York, Mr. 
Espaillat.

                              UNIONIZATION

    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, Acting Director James and General Counsel 
Uelmen.
    When Congress passed the Congressional Accountability Act 
in 1995, it put in motion a process for unionization of 
congressional staff. Currently, the House of Representatives 
are now actively considering legislation that would provide for 
House staff to unionize, and Speaker Pelosi has indicated her 
support, as well as Senator Schumer in the Senate.
    In recent oral testimony by Mr. Uelmen before the House 
Administration Committee, he raised questions and concerns 
about insufficient funding for the OCWR in light of the 
unionization push. The influx of briefings, resources, and 
information around this topic would present a resources issue 
for the office, one that could be exacerbated by the large 
number of offices that could be unionized. And the current 
system for union approval relies on one person at the OCWR to 
certify petitions and oversee elections, the executive director 
of the OCWR.
    The OCWR has requested $7.5 million in budget for fiscal 
year 2023, which is identical to fiscal year 2022 and 2021. In 
light of the ongoing unionization efforts, what additional 
funds would OCWR need to provide a smooth review and approval 
process for congressional unions should a unionization 
resolution be approved by the House?
    Ms. James. First, let me just say--and, John, please feel 
free to weigh in here, but, you know, in the House, all the 
employing offices, each Member is their own employing office. 
So, at this point, until we know more, until we work and have 
some experience in this area, we don't know what it is going to 
look like on the House side.
    You know, we know when we have done elections with Capitol 
Police and others, and they are one, you know, unit of staff 
who are represented by the union. It would be very different in 
this Capitol--in the House environment than what we are used 
to, I think than what many are used to.
    John, did you want to add something here?
    Mr. Uelmen. Well, that question was posed by CHA, and we 
did estimate that--to do this expeditiously, because obviously 
these petitions would have to be moved through--you only have a 
2-year term and people who are unionizing. So we were looking 
at another $500,000 plus two FTEs to do this, I think, in the 
manner to--so if it was passed, that is what we would be 
seeking, I think, to expeditiously handle the petitions that 
would come through, so----
    Mr. Espaillat. So you have a dollar amount in view already 
to handle this appropriately?
    Mr. Uelmen. That is correct.
    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Espaillat. I appreciate it.
    Just in the nick of time. They just called votes. So I want 
to thank the committee. The statutory functions of this 
office----
    Mr. Espaillat. I tried to help you a little bit there.

                     Chairman Ryan Closing Remarks

    Mr. Ryan. You are doing good. You are doing good.
    The statutory functions of this office continue to be vital 
for the House community and their workplace protections. We 
appreciate all your service. Please tell your team how much we 
thank and appreciate them for their work, largely behind the 
scenes, to make this the kind of place that people want to 
work.
    So, with that, thank you again for joining us, and the 
hearing is now adjourned.
    Ms. James. Thank you.

                                          Wednesday, April 6, 2022.

    FISCAL YEAR 2023 BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                               WITNESSES

HON. CHERYL L. JOHNSON, CLERK, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
HON. CATHERINE SZPINDOR, CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER, U.S. HOUSE OF 
    REPRESENTATIVES
HON. WILLIAM J. WALKER, SERGEANT AT ARMS, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                            ACCOMPANIED BY:

ENUMALE AGADA, ACTING DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION
WADE BALLOU JR., LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL, OFFICE OF THE LEGISLATIVE 
    COUNSEL, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
DOUGLAS N. LETTER, GENERAL COUNSEL, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
JOSEPH C. PICOLLA, ACTING INSPECTOR GENERAL, OFFICE OF INSPECTOR 
    GENERAL, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
RALPH V. SEEP, LAW REVISION COUNSEL, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                   Opening Statement of Chairman Ryan

    Mr. Ryan. I now call to order the hearing on the fiscal 
year 2023 budget of the House of Representatives.
    This is a hybrid hearing so we need to address a few 
housekeeping issues. For members joining virtually, please be 
respectful of members in the hearing room and do not talk over 
them when members in person have been recognized. I will gavel 
you down if you are like virtually harassing us.
    For the members joining virtually, once you start speaking 
there is a slight delay before you are displayed on the main 
screen. Speaking into the microphone activates the camera, 
displaying the speaker on the main screen. Do not stop your 
remarks if you do not immediately see the screen switch. If the 
screen does not change after several seconds, please make sure 
you are not muted. Lessons we have all learned for our million 
Zoom calls we have done over the past couple of years.
    To minimize background noise and ensure the correct speaker 
is being displayed, we ask that you remain on mute unless you 
have sought recognition. The chair or an individual designated 
by the chair may mute participants' microphones when they are 
not under recognition to eliminate inadvertent background 
noise.
    Members who are virtual are responsible for muting and 
unmuting themselves. If I notice when you are recognized that 
you have not unmuted yourself, I will ask you if you would like 
the staff to unmute you. If you indicate approval by nodding, 
staff will unmute your microphone.
    Finally, House rules require me to remind you that we have 
set up an email address to which members can send anything they 
wish to submit in writing at any of our hearings. That email 
address has been provided in advance to your staff.
    So let's get going.
    I would like to welcome the officers and officials of the 
House of Representatives to present the fiscal year 2023 budget 
request. Testifying before us today, we have The Honorable 
Cheryl L. Johnson, Clerk of the House; The Honorable Catherine 
Szpindor, Chief Administrative Officer; and The Honorable 
William J. Walker, Sergeant at Arms; and House officials.
    Thank you all for joining us today. We welcome you back to 
our subcommittee.
    Before we begin with the testimonies, I would like to thank 
all of the officers, officials, and their staffs for the 
extraordinary work over the past year. Through the pandemic, a 
violent mob of insurrectionists, the reopening of the Capitol 
complex, and just life on Capitol Hill, you continue to serve 
this body and provide a host of services that are necessary for 
us to represent our constituents and do the work that will 
address our country's critical needs.
    The request for the House of Representatives is $1.8 
billion, an increase of $114.5 million over the fiscal year 
2022 enacted level. I would like to note this is a significant 
increase, 7 percent, over the very healthy increase provided in 
the fiscal year 2022 budget. With that in mind, I look forward 
to hearing each of your testimonies.
    At this point, I would like to yield to the ranking member, 
my friend and colleague from Washington State, which is the 
only State named after a United States President, the 
distinguished gentlewoman Jaime Herrera Beutler, for any 
opening comments that she may have.

          Opening Statement of Ranking Member Herrera Beutler

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And we are, 
in fact, the only State that has been named after a President, 
the greatest President.
    I know that the work that you do keeps us on track. And so 
a lot of what I wanted to talk about was--well, we will get to 
it, but I have so many different questions for you. I will keep 
this brief.
    It is a privilege to have you all here. I am extremely 
pleased to see how well your offices are working with the 
Capitol Police, with the Attending Physician. You have had no 
shortage of challenges in the last couple of years and the 
other legislative branch entities, to open the Capitol complex, 
to give access to our constituents and visitors in a way that 
maximizes our safety. It is definitely a new time, but it is 
energizing I think to see everybody coming back and the opening 
of services and the food services, as more staff are able to 
come back to work in the office and tour groups are able to 
come back to the Capitol.
    Thank you for all that you are doing in this reopening 
effort. We truly, truly appreciate it, and I encourage 
everything we can do to get to that full opening, which I know 
is high up on your list.
    Your offices have continued to expand and improve your 
services in a very unpredictable year and a difficult year, 
from the cybersecurity improvements executed by the CAO and 
realtime situational awareness of House security 
vulnerabilities to modernize efforts by the Clerk for easy-to-
use, secure, and reliable technology solutions.
    You know, what the rest of the private sector, what they 
are using, we are bringing that into the U.S. House of 
Representatives. And it will make the House more efficient as 
well as making access to the information easier for the public, 
which is incredibly important.
    You continue to show ingenuity and flexibility to ensure 
that the people's House improves its efficiency and 
transparency while preparing for the future with these 
modernization efforts that are going to serve the House 
community for years to come.
    So, as the committee evaluates your budget request for 
fiscal year 2023, there are some substantial increases in here 
that we are going to need to review. I am looking forward to 
talking with you about and hearing how you are going to 
continue to improve the capabilities and the efficiencies of 
the House of Representatives.
    So, with that, thank you so much, and I yield back.

                     CHAIRMAN OUTLINES PROCEEDINGS

    Mr. Ryan. I thank the gentlelady from Washington.
    Witnesses, at the beginning of your testimony, please 
introduce any colleagues that you have that are here that you 
would like us to recognize.
    And, without objection, each of your written testimonies 
will be made part of the record.
    I ask each of you, the Clerk, the Sergeant at Arms, and the 
Chief Administrative Officer, to summarize your remarks and 
highlight your efforts of the past year to the committee.
    And, after opening statements, we will move to the 
question-and-answer period, and during the question-and-answer 
period, we will adhere to the 5-minute rule.
    Madam Clerk of the House, Ms. Johnson, we will start with 
you.

                     Testimony of Cheryl L. Johnson

    Ms. Johnson. Thank you.
    Mr. Ryan. The floor is yours.
    Ms. Johnson. Good afternoon. Chairperson Ryan, Ranking 
Member Herrera Beutler, Members of the Subcommittee, thank you 
for your support for the Office of the Clerk and for the 
opportunity to testify regarding our operations and my fiscal 
year 2023 budget request.
    First, it gives me great pride to report to you that 
throughout the many challenges of the past 2 years, we have 
successfully fulfilled our duties, supporting the House while 
simultaneously ensuring the safety of our dedicated staff.
    As the Members of this Subcommittee are aware, the work of 
the House did not slow during COVID. In fact, work performed by 
Clerk staff measurably increased since the start of the 
pandemic. I remain immensely proud of our committed staff for 
meeting the many challenges they have confronted, even in the 
face of significant risk to their own health and well-being.
    The Office of the Clerk consists of specialized 
professional staff across nine divisions who support not only 
House and committee proceedings but also Members and staff 
directly.
    This past year has been particularly busy for our staff. We 
have continued our longstanding duties, such as maintaining the 
House Journal, certifying the passage of legislation, 
transmitting messages and bills to the Senate and the 
President, providing Member training, managing vacant offices, 
and performing archival and curatorial services to the House. 
But in addition to these duties, we have undertaken a number of 
initiatives to add new services as well as improve existing 
ones for the benefit of Members, staff, and the public.
    The Office of the Clerk quickly implemented new systems and 
processes in response to new legislative rules born by the 
global pandemic. We have since worked diligently to further 
improve and enhance those systems and processes, as they have 
become heavily utilized.
    For example, the eHopper is now the vastly preferred way 
for Members to introduce bills, with more than 9 out of 10 
bills submitted electronically. I am pleased to tell you that 
we will soon roll out an enhanced eHopper solution with 
improvements in the experience for you and your staff.
    We are continuing the redevelopment and redesign of the 
Legislative Information Management System, known as LIMS. LIMS 
is one of the two most important systems which supports the 
legislative process in the House, with the other being the 
Electronic Voting System, and the redesign project is one of 
the largest IT projects the Clerk's Office has ever undertaken.
    This Subcommittee is also well aware of another IT 
initiative in our office known as the Comparative Print 
Project, which will allow you and your staff to create on-
demand point-in-time comparative prints between legislative 
text and between legislative text and current law. We are 
excited to be nearing the time when we will be rolling this new 
service out House-wide in the coming months.
    I appreciate this subcommittee's ongoing support for the 
operations of our office. For fiscal year 2023, I respectfully 
request $40,327,000 for the Office of the Clerk. This is an 
increase of 10.48 percent above the fiscal year 2022 enacted 
funding level.
    Eighty-three percent of this funding request will support 
salaries, training, and technology to carry out existing and 
new responsibilities. The remaining 17 percent of this request 
is for non-personnel related expenses: equipment, software 
maintenance, warranties and contracts, such as closed 
captioning, exhibition, curation, and stenographic reporting.
    Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Herrera Beutler, Subcommittee 
Members, the Office of the Clerk is dedicated to making 
efficient and effective use of funds allocated to our efforts 
in serving this great institution. Thank you for this 
opportunity, and I look forward to your questions.
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    Mr. Ryan. Thank you so much.
    I will next go to the Chief Administrative Officer, Ms. 
Szpindor.

                    Testimony of Catherine Szpindor

    Ms. Szpindor. Thank you, Chairman Ryan, Ranking Member 
Herrera Beutler, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for 
this opportunity to present the fiscal year 2023 priorities and 
subsequent budget request of $211.2 million for the Office of 
the Chief Administrative Officer.
    Guided by our organizational motto, ``Member Focused, 
Service Driven,'' the CAO continues to focus on four 
priorities: improving communications with Members and staff; 
instituting rigorous planning, prioritization, and execution of 
projects; enhancing its support for the well-being of the House 
employees; and promoting and fostering an inclusive and diverse 
workforce.
    Our Fiscal Year 2023 Budget Request includes an increase of 
$18 million, or approximately 9 percent above the Fiscal Year 
2022--sorry.
    Mr. Ryan. I was going to say something, but I could hear 
you fine.
    Ms. Szpindor. I project.
    Mr. Ryan. You are doing great.
    Ms. Szpindor. Our Fiscal Year 2023 Budget Request includes 
an increase of $18 million, or approximately 9 percent, above 
the Fiscal Year 2022 Enacted funding level.
    Our requested increase includes $5.9 million for technology 
initiatives critical to House operations to strengthen the 
cybersecurity of House cloud resources, improve the House 
network, improve Member office technology, streamline the 
onboarding and offboarding for House staff, expand House data 
storage and archival and retrieval services, and continue the 
support for remote meetings and proceedings.
    $5 million of our requested increase is defined as the 
CAO's new Emerging Projects Investment Fund, to provide 
accountability for specific high-priority, high-impact 
projects. Often these projects are requested by CAO leadership, 
House leadership, or committees and key stakeholders. This fund 
ensures the CAO champions those investments which directly meet 
the priorities of the House.
    $1.3 million of our request will provide our logistics and 
support team with contractor support and equipment needed for 
district office inventories, the CAO TV Program, and to acquire 
and deliver new furniture.
    Finally, $5.8 million of our request is allocated for 
increases in personnel longevities and a cost-of-living 
adjustment.
    The CAO continues to deliver new services and improve 
services for the House. Launched in August 2021, the HR HUB is 
growing and a valuable resource for Member staff, containing 
more than 125 documents and resources to assist Member office 
staff to hire, develop, and retain staff. The CAO continues to 
expand the HR HUB to include job descriptions and career paths 
for common roles in Member offices. As part of the HR HUB, the 
CAO will launch the House Resume Bank, where prospective 
applicants can submit their resumes for specific job roles. 
Office staff can then select candidates from the Resume Bank 
based on their hiring needs and preferences.
    The Office of Employee Assistance and the Center for Well-
Being will continue to explore new resources and services to 
directly support all House offices, including self-help mobile 
apps, new partnerships to enrich our capabilities and provide 
helpful and needed services to House staff.
    Since June 2021, the CAO's new training program, called CAO 
Coach, has provided over 50 training events, some with more 
than 300 participants, and 580 one-on-one coaching sessions 
geared to Member staff. Staffed by former chiefs of staff and 
district directors with two legislative directors joining the 
team very soon, the CAO Coach program will continue to meet in-
demand training, provide one-on-one support for Member and 
district office staff.
    Earlier this year, the CAO launched the Congressional 
Excellence Program, which pairs Members and their chiefs with 
leadership and organizational development experts to build a 
compelling vision of service, display excellence in leadership, 
and make a significant impact on behalf of their districts and 
our Nation. We anticipate this program to grow in coming years.
    Through our strategic focus on planning, prioritizing, and 
executing our projects, we are confident the planned fiscal 
year 2023 investments, priorities, and initiatives will support 
and facilitate the work of the people's House and the Members 
and staff who serve it each day.
    Thank you for your continued support and for the 
opportunity to present the CAO's fiscal year 2023 budget 
request. Thank you.
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    Mr. Ryan. Thank you very much.
    Sergeant At Arms Walker.

                     Testimony of William J. Walker

    General Walker. Good afternoon, Chairman Ryan, Ranking 
Member Herrera Beutler, and members of the Appropriations 
Subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to present the 
Office of the Sergeant at Arms budget request for fiscal year 
2023. It is an honor and privilege to serve this great 
institution and our Nation as the 38th Sergeant at Arms.
    With me this afternoon is Ms. Kim Campbell, she is the 
Deputy Sergeant at Arms; and Ms. Kathleen Joyce, she is my 
chief of staff.
    Before going into my budget overview, I would like to frame 
the risk environment for the Capitol complex, Members of 
Congress, and this institution as an enterprise. The risk and 
threat atmosphere, especially for Members, has increased 
significantly and dramatically over the past year to 18 months, 
and it continues, unfortunately, to grow.
    This unfortunate circumstance has been confirmed by 
intelligence information from Federal law enforcement agencies 
and others in our Federal Government. Their assessment is that 
threat actors are promoting acts of violence against government 
organizations and legislators on the Federal, State, and local 
levels.
    In view of this growing threat, the Sergeant at Arms' 
fiscal year 2023 budget request is $38,793,000. This request 
includes $16,558,000 to fund 168 full-time equivalent positions 
plus 14 new FTEs, for a total of 182 full-time equivalent; and 
$22,235,000 for nonpersonal items.
    The $11,098,000 increase over the fiscal year 2022 enacted 
budget is ascribed to additional personnel required to 
strengthen Sergeant at Arms' staffing levels in addition to 
enhance the safety and security of this complex, its Members, 
its staff, and all visitors.
    This office has leveraged risk analysis to enhance our 
situational awareness and enable Sergeant at Arms staff, in 
partnership with the United States Capitol Police, to develop 
comprehensive and seamless security plans. Because of the 
growing threats that I mentioned and directions of interest 
communications, we continue to focus on the five dimensions of 
Member security that I noted in my previous testimony before 
this body.
    And they are: Member security on Capitol Grounds; Member 
security at their residences; Member travel security; special 
events in Members' home districts, and I might add here in the 
Nation's Capital as well; mass Member events, I feel strongly 
that the Capitol Police should be made aware of those events; 
and then active threats against Members of Congress that we are 
relentlessly pursuing. The hope is that we dissuade them with 
judicial action.
    Accordingly, I offer an overview of my fiscal year 2023 
budget request, highlighting some of the significant physical 
and other security measures and strategies that are ongoing or 
brand new.
    As noted in my January testimony, dynamic proactive 
security, mission-critical, must have an integrated focus on a 
comprehensive security plan for this Congress. Some specific 
and important security initiatives that I would like to note 
are as follows: We need to replace the escape hoods and the 
Victim Rescue Units, VRUs, that are at the end of their life 
cycle. That alone is $5 million. That is 17,000 units that we 
need. Providing access to a standard security package for 
Members' residence, strengthening the District Office Security 
Program, including security systems, installations, mail-safety 
devices and periodic security briefings. We need to increase 
security awareness and threat mitigation, briefings for 
district law enforcement coordinators. I would like to share 
with you a book at the end of my presentation that we put 
together. Next, emphasizing that law enforcement coordinators 
have the knowledge, skills, abilities and, hopefully, the 
access and reach, as well as the credibility to serve as a 
vital link between Members and their local law enforcement to 
ensure any security measures are met, any security needs.
    We need to procure software to support emergency 
operations, conduct pre-event planning for evacuations, 
sheltering, and specified internal relocation drills, 
continuing the implementation of the Joint Audible Warning 
System being developed collaboratively with the Capitol Police 
and have the USCP, the Capitol Police replace the outdated 
annunciator system, which will enhance the life safety 
notification system for the United States House of 
Representatives.
    We also want to continue our contracted services and 
continue with rehired annuitants--and you have been very 
gracious with that, but we need more--with security subject-
matter expertise, people with deep knowledge and experience in 
security and proactive intelligence--protective intelligence, 
rather, to provide greater capability and capacity to 
effectively address the executive protection, intelligence, and 
special event security responsibilities of this office, the 
hiring of additional Sergeant at Arms staff to increase 
effectiveness in the following areas: police services, 
emergency management, parking security, and information 
services.
    As you know, many Members receive threats and unusual 
directions of interest communications that understandably raise 
concerns for Members, their families, and staff. The number of 
threatening communications has dramatically increased over the 
past several years. And these threats have become more visceral 
and violent. For example, since January 2022 to yesterday, 
there have been 1,811 threatening communications made against 
Members of Congress. Furthermore, in 2021, there were 9,625 
investigations related to threatening communications against 
Members of Congress.
    Accordingly, my office, specifically the Police Services 
Division, continues to proactively interface with Member 
offices to coordinate security for special events or mass 
Member events that take place off Capitol Grounds. In 2021, 
Police Services staff, along with the United States Capitol 
Police, conducted 51 security awareness briefings for Member 
offices.
    Since January of 2022, Police Services has conducted five 
security awareness briefings. In 2021, Police Services had 
6,446 interactions with Member district offices and have 950 
interactions to date. Accordingly, I am asking for six new 
full-time equivalents to optimize this critically important 
division and better provide services to Members, both in 
Washington, D.C., and in their residences.
    When a Member office desires law enforcement support for an 
event, the Sergeant at Arms requests that the United States 
Capitol Police provide a security assessment. If the United 
States Capitol Police security assessment determines that 
protection is warranted, we work collaboratively with the 
Capitol Police and other Federal, State, and local law 
enforcement to ensure protection is provided. Protective 
services can range from a notification to a police department 
to an actual USCP presence.
    My office will continue to coordinate with security 
experts, intelligence professionals, and leverage physical 
security countermeasures to develop and maintain optimal 
technical and operational security postures for the Capitol. 
These important physical and other security efforts continue to 
be coordinated with the Architect of the Capitol, the Senate 
Sergeant at Arms, the Chief of Police, as well as the 
committees of jurisdiction.
    Lastly, our fiscal year 2023 budget request continues to 
support funding for staff travel, including advanced 
operational planning and other large-scale off-campus events 
attended by Members of Congress. Funding will continue to 
provide critical job-specific training for my staff in the 
areas of leadership, management, professional development, 
information technology, and emergency preparedness. Funding 
will continue to cover communication services for all divisions 
of the Sergeant at Arms as well as printing of emergency 
preparedness brochures, district security training material, et 
cetera.
    In closing, the fiscal year 2023 budget request has been 
prepared in the spirit of zero-based budgeting, without 
jeopardizing mission-critical services provided to the House 
community.
    Thank you once again for the opportunity to appear before 
you this afternoon. I am profoundly grateful for the 
committee's unwavering support to our sincere efforts to 
preserve the delicate balance between necessary and required 
security measures and an open Capitol.
    Finally, let me thank my staff for their hard work and 
unwavering commitment to excellence.
    I am happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you 
again.
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    Mr. Ryan. Fantastic. Thank you for the testimony. We are 
really proud of the work that you have done over the last year 
or two and all of your teams, so make sure you let them know.
    And we are going to start the question and answer, and we 
are going to start with the ranking member, Ms. Herrera 
Beutler. You have 5 minutes.

                          CAO INVESTMENT FUND

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I will 
speak quickly.
    Ms. Szpindor, I am just going to be brief because I want to 
get as many out as I can. Your office is requesting to realign 
funds from various business units to establish a CAO Investment 
Fund. The purpose of the fund is very broad, in saying its 
projects--saying it is for projects that would impact Member, 
committee, and leadership offices. And I was hoping you could 
elaborate what the $5 million fund will be used for, why you 
believe it is necessary, and who would make decisions for its 
use.
    Ms. Szpindor. Thank you. The Investment Fund, really, think 
of it as a way of having--as pulling funds that we have asked 
for traditionally in each of our business units.
    These are funds that each of our business units have put 
forward for their budget this year, but they were for large 
projects that we feel like are better managed if they are then 
brought into an investment fund picture, where we set those 
aside. From a management perspective, we are making some very 
important decisions about them as we go through, evaluate the 
projects, better understand them.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Can I ask just so that--because I am 
still--I am fuzzy on the different business units. Could you 
just--is it possible to give me examples so that I follow you 
easier? Thank you.
    Ms. Szpindor. No, that is fine. Within the CAO, we have the 
Finance Department, Procurement, Logistics, and HIR, or House 
Information Resources. All of those are our business units 
within the CAO.
    Traditionally, when we have done our budget, we accumulate, 
through zero-based budgeting, the budgets for each of those 
business units, including any special projects that they may 
have been asked to include or work on in the future years. I 
will give you an example.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. I--okay.
    Ms. Szpindor. The Digital Service Program is an example of 
one. Some of the modernization that we are doing in Web 
Services is an example.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. So this is money they are going to be 
asking for each year anyway.
    Ms. Szpindor. Yes.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. So, as part of the budget, you are--I 
still don't totally understand how----
    Ms. Szpindor. We are not removing them, really, from the 
budget. They are part of the budget. We are conceptualizing 
them as part of this investment program that we are doing. And 
all that really means is that they are going to have a higher 
level of oversight. We are going to make sure that we are 
evaluating each one of those projects to ensure that, when we 
get ready to get started with it, we can execute it.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Okay.
    Ms. Szpindor. I know that, in the past, sometimes we have 
had projects that we have started, and we thought when we first 
asked for the money that we were going to be able to get 
everything done that was needed for that project in a 
particular year. However, after we got into the project, we did 
our requirements----
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Is this a $5 million start to it?
    Ms. Szpindor. It is just--yes.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. And so the $5 million will be a 
cushion fund?
    Ms. Szpindor. Well, actually, the $5 million is what they 
would have had in their business units anyway.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Okay. As part of--okay, okay.
    Ms. Szpindor. We are not creating any type of slush fund or 
anything like that.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Got it, okay.
    Ms. Szpindor. We are just simply saying: You have this 
particular project in your business unit, and it is a major 
project.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you. I apologize. I need to 
switch gears just because I am watching my time. And I may 
follow up. Thank you for breaking it down.
    Ms. Szpindor. I hope that helps.

                       CONTRACT SECURITY STAFFING

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. It does. Thank you, thank you.
    General Walker, the Capitol Police is currently working to 
bring on security contractors temporarily to help supplement 
their sworn officers to reopen the Capitol and to make sure all 
the security demands are met.
    And I understand, in your budget request, you also have 
requested an increase in nonpersonnel costs due to contracted 
services to assist with controlling access to the House Chamber 
and galleries during peak visitation.
    And what I wanted to ask is, is the Sergeant at Arms 
suffering from a similar attrition as the Capitol Police that 
you would need the supplemental security contractors, or is 
this just standing practice for Chamber security during peak 
visitation?
    General Walker. Yes, ma'am. Thank you for the question. It 
is the latter. It is a standing practice. So these are seasonal 
people that come on. They come off. They come back on. And, 
fortunately, we are not suffering from the attrition that the 
United States Capitol Police is having.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. And I will save for another round. 
Thank you for that.
    General Walker. Yes, ma'am.
    Mr. Ryan. I thank the gentlelady.
    We are going to go virtual here with the distinguished 
gentleman from New York, Mr. Espaillat.

                             CYBERSECURITY

    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
    My question is for the Honorable Catherine Szpindor. And 
the CAO budget calls for $2 million to support cybersecurity 
for cloud modernization of House services, and in it, you list 
14 cybersecurity priorities.
    How does this complement the cybersecurity enhancement 
called by the Sergeant at Arms, and how do the two entities 
work together to ensure that the House network is secure from 
external cyber attacks?
    Ms. Szpindor. Thank you, sir. The Sergeant at Arms staff 
and our staff work very closely from a cybersecurity 
standpoint. The House CISO, Randy Vickers, is here with me 
today, and he spent quite a bit of time with both the Clerk's 
organization, as well as the Sergeant at Arms, making sure that 
we are all working together on behalf of ensuring that we are 
securing the House from a cyber attack of any type as well as 
just having common day-to-day practices that ensure we are 
following good cyber practices at the House.
    The money that we are spending as opposed to what maybe the 
general is spending here has to do with a lot of our hardware, 
our software, ensuring that we are improving our cloud 
services' architecture and the software that then surrounds 
that architecture, to ensure we are preventing any type of 
intrusion into it.
    And the same is true for a lot of our other systems, not 
just cloud but many of our other systems that we run every 
single day within the House on behalf of the Members and the 
staff, such as our payroll and benefit system, our H.R. system, 
and others.
    So, a lot of our money goes internally to the architecture 
that supports I guess the bedrock of our technology within the 
House.

                       COMMUNICATING WITH MEMBERS

    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you. Thank you.
    My next question is for General William Walker, William J. 
Walker. And since the emergency security supplemental became 
law, what steps has the Sergeant at Arms implemented to improve 
communications with Members of Congress, the public, and other 
stakeholders since the insurrection? And how will this fiscal 
year 2023 budget you propose build on that progress?
    General Walker. So thank you for the question, Congressman. 
So we use the money to improve communication to Members; is 
that the question?
    Mr. Espaillat. Yes. What steps have you taken to improve 
communications with Members of Congress, the public, and other 
stakeholders?
    General Walker. Well, not so much with the public, but we 
are focused on the Members. So Police Services has reached out 
to all the Members, through the law enforcement coordinator and 
through the district security office. So that is how we are 
using the funds.
    But if I am hearing a suggestion that we need to do more 
with the public, we will look into that. But right now, we 
communicate on a regular basis with the Members and their 
staff.
    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you. Thank you both.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. I thank the gentleman.
    The distinguished gentleman from Washington State.

                        HOUSE APPOINTMENTS DESK

    Mr. Newhouse. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all 
for being here with us today to talk about your proposed budget 
request. As we were speaking just informally before the 
hearing, the public is coming back. The halls are filling up. 
There are now lines in places. It takes longer to get from 
point A to point B. But I think we would all agree it is a good 
thing that the people's House is beginning to open. So thanks 
for your efforts to make that happen and look forward to 
continuing that process so that we are fully open as soon as 
possible.
    But I want to--I appreciate, Major General Walker, you 
contacting me last week. We were able to talk about some of 
these issues, and I expressed to you some of my concerns about 
where we are in that process. And I just wanted to expound on 
those this afternoon. And so I have got several questions, and 
I will just express them to you, and we can have that 
conversation.
    So, just to start with, where within the House protocol and 
Chamber operation policies is it written that the House 
Appointments Desk, which you know I have an issue with, must 
take the names and information of individuals when they attempt 
to visit the United States Capitol?
    And what is done with those names? What is done with that 
information of the individuals visiting after they have 
visited? Is there a log or a database that is maintained? Who 
has access to that information that is provided to the House 
Appointments Desk?
    If I recall, you said you are the 38th Sergeant at Arms. 
You were installed on April 26, 2021. And this practice of 
taking these names and visitor information began last fall, 
when our office, it became necessary to submit these names by 
email. There is an online submission form I think that has a 
date on it of February of 2022.
    So was the collection of these names and information your 
decision or perhaps directed by someone, for instance, the 
Speaker of the House, to make this change? Where is the change 
in policy in written form that is accessible to Members of 
Congress and to the public? And what kind of metrics did you 
follow in making the decisions to require this information?
    And, just probably a coincidence, but this morning, as you 
know, it was raining. I had an appointment this morning. The 
guests arrived at the door of the Cannon Building a full hour 
before the appointed appointment, and by the time they got to 
my office, we had about 5 minutes remaining for an available 
meeting because of the--I think there was probably a hundred 
people backed up at the door, standing in the rain waiting to 
get in, just so they could go through this process of giving 
names and information.
    So just expressing--trying not to be--I just want some 
information on why, why we have to keep doing this. It is truly 
a bottleneck, and it is impeding the work that needs to be done 
here.
    General Walker. Thank you, Congressman Newhouse, and thank 
you for your time last week. So I am going to answer in reverse 
order. There is no system of record in the House Sergeant at 
Arms. So the names are not run against anything. The names--
when I got here, the names were being collected with the 
thought that they would be kept for 60 days and then destroyed.
    Oh, sorry about that. So I will just recap.
    When I got here, the names were being requested for 60 
days, and then they would be--you know, there is no system of 
record. So the names would be destroyed after 60 days.
    So a decision is going to be made to not have the names 
anymore this week. So I will be publishing that soon. There is 
no other information. It is just a name. And, without date of 
birth, place of birth and others, what can you do with it?
    Mr. Newhouse. Can I say hallelujah here?
    General Walker. Sir?
    Mr. Newhouse. Can I say hallelujah here?
    General Walker. Yes, sir. But I just want to manage 
expectations. So I go around the complex as well, outside and 
in, and this morning, I saw the long lines. So the expectation 
I want to manage is that, on some doors, there was one metal 
detector working, and that is a symptom of not having enough 
Capitol Police officers.
    So the names will speed it up. Not requiring the names will 
speed it up, but the lines will still be--it won't be just 
coming in because you are still going to have to negotiate the 
metal detectors, and there are less officers there.
    So I want to be clear: There is no system of record. No one 
keeps these names. No one puts these names through a database. 
The names are just kept. And, from my research, the thinking 
was, if something were to happen, law enforcement would have a 
starting point to go and find out who was here. My experience 
is you would need more than a name. So my name, for example, 
even my full name, William Joseph Walker, is extremely common. 
You would need more than that. So I look to see it disappear 
this week.
    Mr. Newhouse. I appreciate that.
    General Walker. Yes, sir.

               SERGEANT AT ARMS FISCAL YEAR 2023 REQUEST

    Mr. Newhouse. Thanks for that information.
    The other question, just stemming from your testimony 
today, you went through a long list of things, improvements and 
necessary changes in the safety and protocol, policing needs 
and all those kinds of things. But I think the chairman would 
agree, a 60-percent increase in an appropriated budget is huge, 
one that bears at least some perusal.
    Could you help me understand? Some of those things I think 
are one-off, so to speak, replacing some of the hoods and 
things like that. But about how much of the budget is going to 
be ongoing? Is this going to be a new level of requirements 
moving forward? Are we going to get back to some level of 
maintaining what had been more normal in the last few years?
    General Walker. Thank you, Mr. Newhouse.
    So I will just talk about the hoods first. The hoods were 
way beyond their life cycle, and then they were used 
effectively on January 6. So we have to replace those hoods.
    Mr. Newhouse. Yes, I am not questioning the need for that. 
Just that is one example of something that is a one-off 
purchase. It increases the budget need this year, but next year 
won't be there, perhaps.
    General Walker. No, it won't be there next year. But that 
$11 million, that was a big chunk of it, just to replace that. 
And then the additional funds--it is all real money, but the 
additional funds is to acquire and bring on subject-matter 
experts, really practitioners in protection and intelligence 
and security, and we need those people.
    Mr. Newhouse. And many of those costs will continue on into 
the future, you are anticipating.
    General Walker. Well, I anticipate that would be a stable 
cost because we will keep them. Hopefully, we will get 3 to 5 
years out of these people. And then we will train the people we 
have here, and then the cost should go down.
    But I am bringing in subject-matter experts from across 
Federal law enforcement to help us better understand what is 
facing us. Then, as I grow people and develop people, part of 
it was leadership development to get the skills that we need to 
better protect the campus, better protect the Members, their 
families. I will develop subject-matter experts in-house, and 
then the cost should go back down.
    Mr. Newhouse. I appreciate that.
    General Walker. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Newhouse. Thank you.
    I see I have gone way over my time, Mr. Chairman. Thank 
you.

                    CYBERSECURITY NEEDS FOR FY 2023

    Mr. Ryan. Good questions, Mr. Newhouse. Thank you.
    So I am going to try to get through a few of the questions 
here that we would like to better understand. I am going to 
start with the CAO.
    We were talking a little bit about cyber attacks. I may 
have missed it, but is there a specific number in the line item 
for cyber that you are asking? I know there is. What is that 
specific number, and what is the increase?
    Ms. Szpindor. There is a specific number for cybersecurity.
    Mr. Ryan. Is your mike on? Now I am paranoid about it.
    Ms. Szpindor. I am getting there, yes. For cybersecurity, 
our budget for this year is $26 million. That is about a 13 
percent increase and included in that is a number of things for 
cyber, which is the increase in some of our contractor dollars 
that we have.
    We are renegotiating some of our contractors, which we use 
a fairly large percentage, both for on-site, as well as we have 
a contract with an outside firm that does 7-by-24 monitoring of 
our network around the clock. So, there is some increase there.
    And then also just increases on the type of technology that 
we are using for cloud. There is a technology, and I am not 
going to go in and try and explain it, but it is using 
containers around our applications so that we can--it is a type 
of technology that builds in the security into the container 
where your application is. And there has been a lot of time and 
effort spent by the cybersecurity team and working with our 
applications staff in being able to get that technology up and 
going.
    Mr. Ryan. How many of the personnel, how many people are 
working as contractors on cyber?
    Ms. Szpindor. On cyber, there is probably about--and I 
would have to ask Randy. It is about----
    Mr. Vickers. We have about 62 percent, about 62 people out 
of the 100 that are on my staff. I still have some vacancies on 
the FTE, but I have about 62 contractors.
    Mr. Ryan. Okay. All right. As far as the prevention of 
cyber attacks, I mean, I think we are seeing a lot with 
everything going on in Ukraine of just this broader kind of 
awareness happening now about cyber.
    Is there anything you are concerned with that we need to 
know about with regard to any kind of cyber attack here?
    Ms. Szpindor. Well, we certainly are in a hyper state of 
visual review of everything that is going on. And I know that 
Randy and his team, the cybersecurity group, are looking daily 
for any indication of anything coming in from outside of our 
network.
    Mr. Ryan. Maybe we should do that offline in a little more 
classified setting----
    Ms. Szpindor. Right.
    Mr. Ryan [continuing]. Which probably would be better.
    Ms. Szpindor. And we can do any type of cyber briefing to 
the staff.

                         HOUSE WELLNESS CENTER

    Mr. Ryan. Yeah, I think we are going to probably get that 
scheduled.
    I want to talk a little bit with you about the House 
Wellness Center.
    Ms. Szpindor. Yes.
    Mr. Ryan. You know, this place was a very, very difficult 
place, high-stress environment prior to COVID and prior to 
January 6th. And so this is a very important I think component 
of our strategy to retain and make sure we are taking care of 
the workforce here that are public servants, and they are 
serving the country.
    I am really proud of Bryan and his team and what they have 
been able to do in the last couple years, rolling out a lot of 
these resiliency-based programming for staffers. And it is 
really important to me and I know the committee to continue to 
provide the rollout of these new programs to support the staff, 
the Members, and the Capitol Police.
    So, if you could just talk a little bit about any needs 
that you see within the wellness, any kind of programming that 
you anticipate the center or OEA providing in the next year 
that builds upon the work that we have done.
    I know there are only 11 FTEs right now. And so how are you 
growing your staff to meet the operational and administrative 
challenges?
    Ms. Szpindor. We are increasing the staff. Within the next 
year, we should have approximately 15 full-time staff in OEA, 
and we are going to be adding two more full-time individuals to 
the Center for Well-Being as well. We also have a fellow from 
the Green and Gold Star family that is working there. And so, 
we have a lot planned with those individuals, and it is a good 
thing that we are going to be able to improve the staff levels 
there.
    In the center for OEA, we intend to continue to increase 
in-person and virtual retreat services, both in D.C. and across 
the Nation and territories, by going out and actually working 
with the offices.
    I know that the OEA team has been very instrumental in 
working with our Coach program. In many of the sessions that we 
have been having with staff in the district office, they have 
participated as well, especially when it has to do with 
casework and some of the things that the individuals in the 
district office are going through.
    Mr. Ryan. I had never heard of this Coach program. I love 
it. It sounds terrific. Maybe we need to do a better job of 
getting it out so----
    Ms. Szpindor. It is remarkable, what is happening as far as 
the feedback we are getting from district office staff. It is 
tremendous. And we had a district--and we are getting off the 
subject, but we had a district office directors fly-in last 
Thursday and Friday. And we had over a hundred district office 
directors here for a 2-day event, and it was really remarkable.
    So, the OEA team is working very carefully with that. They 
are also looking at launching some new apps. We currently have 
a Calm app that was brought in and is being marketed heavily by 
the Wellness Center. So----
    Mr. Ryan. Can you give that to Members of Congress? Can we 
get them the Calm app? Yes.
    Ms. Szpindor. Calm us all down.
    Mr. Ryan. Yeah.
    Ms. Szpindor. But the House Center for Well-Being is really 
gearing up this year for a number of programs that they are 
launching, and meditation- and resilience-based programs. They 
have a Resilient Leadership Program on Transcendental 
Meditation, and they are partnering with the David Lynch 
Foundation for that. They have a SKY Breath Meditation, in 
partnership with the Art of Living Foundation, and the ABCs of 
Resiliency, which is a program in partnership with the Garrison 
Institute.
    So, we have got some very good things happening over the 
rest of this year.
    Mr. Ryan. That is fantastic.
    We are going to do a quick second round here. They did call 
votes. So Ms. Herrera Beutler.

                       OFFSITE OPERATIONS CENTER

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    General Walker, your budget request includes funding for 
the establishment of an offsite location, but does not provide 
further description as to why the site is necessary. What is 
the capability for this new location? What capability is it 
bringing to your office that you don't already have? And, 
unfortunately, briefly, because I am going to move right--I 
have one other question for you.
    General Walker. Yes, ma'am. I will be as fast as I can read 
this.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you.
    General Walker. So we want to establish an offsite 
operations to ensure the House can continue emergency 
operations if an event impacts access to the Capitol complex. 
Past events have demonstrated that access to and operations 
from the existing operation center on Capitol Grounds could be 
hindered or not even possible.
    So establishing an operations center outside of the 
immediate Washington, D.C., we are looking at probably a 30- to 
50-mile radius is what we are looking for, would allow us to 
continue operations. And I will stop there in case you have 
something else, but I have got a couple more paragraphs.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Your office is responsible for the 
purchase and installation of security systems from our Member 
offices, our district offices. And part of the funding increase 
you requested would go to increase the service.
    I wanted to know what the percentage of Members who 
currently utilize the offering. Have you noticed an increase in 
that?
    And then, under that same header in your budget, there is 
request for funding for a security program to enhance security 
for Members of Congress, and I was hoping you could elaborate 
in detail, more detail.
    General Walker. Yes, ma'am. So the first question, about 83 
percent of Members' district offices utilize the funding. The 
variance could be there are some Member district offices that 
are in Federal locations. And then, just asking around, there 
are some Members, believe it or not, their district office is 
adjacent to a police department, and in one, police 
headquarters is on the first floor. So they won't need the 
money. So it is about 83 percent, ma'am.
    And then the second question was?

                       ENHANCING MEMBER SECURITY

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Security program to enhance security 
for Members of Congress was a new part of your budget request. 
Can you elaborate a little bit more about what that entails?
    General Walker. So that is aspirational. We would like to 
have residential security for all Members. I think with the 
threatening communications that Members are receiving, it is 
untenable. And I want peace of mind, and I hope everybody does 
as well.
    So, when you come here, you come to work to work, and your 
center of gravity back home in Washington, they are safe and 
secure. So I propose that we have residential security for all 
441 customers.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you.
    And I will yield back to the gentleman, who comes from the 
State where they are the only one to have a nonrectangular 
flag.

                          HOUSE INTERN PROGRAM

    Mr. Ryan. We are including you all in our joke here.
    So I want to do something on the House intern program, Ms. 
Szpindor,
    Ms. Szpindor. Yeah.
    Mr. Ryan. This is, you know, something that--I interned 
here way long time ago. And they just were getting rid of the 
LBJ Internship Program, which was a really phenomenal program 
to help people, you know, that just didn't have the money to be 
able to come here, you know, White people, Black people, Brown 
people, poor--you know, just people who can't afford to come, 
and have this amazing experience here as a young person.
    So this intern program is really important to us on the 
committee, and that is why we have funded it, expanded it to 
committees. We are now encouraging a portal with the Office of 
Diversity and Inclusion to really reach into the HBCUs, reach 
into the minority institutions, so that we are really creating 
a pipeline of opportunity here for young people all across the 
country, and, you know, super excited about that. So digging in 
to get resumes and making sure that we establish that is really 
important.
    So I have a couple quick questions here. Do you have any 
information on how Members are utilizing their intern 
allowance? You know, are they splitting it between several 
interns, or, you know, is it district-focused, here in D.C.? 
How are they using it?
    Ms. Szpindor. Well, I have some statistics for you, and we 
can share with the Committee. I have a report that we submitted 
I guess a couple months ago to the Committee on House 
Administration. But about 69 percent of the funds, which are 
over $7 million--$7,893,551 were authorized for the calendar 
year 2021--were disbursed as of December 31st, 2021. That was 
69 percent. Of that, 74 percent was for the Washington, D.C., 
House paid interns, 23 percent for district office paid 
interns, and 3 percent was for Leadership office House paid 
interns.
    The total number of interns that participated in the 
program were 3,624. On an average, 302 were appointed each 
month. Eight House paid interns were employed, on the average, 
in each participating office. Seventy-six days were the average 
for employment out of a potential 120. And the average annual 
salary for each of these was $14,108 out of a potential maximum 
of $21,600.
    So, we do not have anything without calling the offices 
individually to ask, how many of these were only part time as 
opposed to full time? But I think that gives you a pretty good 
breakdown for how the interns were used.

                     Chairman Ryan Closing Remarks

    Mr. Ryan. Yeah. That is great. That is great. We have got 
the clock running here. So we will probably just leave it at 
this, and we will submit questions and maybe a couple of 
followups that the committee may have. And we are going to 
hustle over to go vote.
    But I just again wanted to say thank you. It has been a 
very difficult year for a lot of folks, and I am going to get 
official here for a second.
    I would like to thank each of you and your teams, and on 
behalf of the Members, our staffs, our constituents, thank you 
for the work that you are doing.
    The subcommittee stands in recess until April 27, 2022, at 
which time we will receive testimony from the Library of 
Congress, Government Printing Office, and Architect of the 
Capitol. So, again, please thank all of your staffs for all of 
their great work, and we will continue to stay in touch, and we 
will very carefully review your suggestions. Thank you so much.
    And, with that, the hearing is adjourned.
    [Material submitted for the record follows:]



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                                         Wednesday, April 27, 2022.

      FISCAL YEAR 2023 BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS

                               WITNESSES

DR. CARLA HAYDEN, LIBRARIAN OF CONGRESS

                            ACCOMPANIED BY:

J. MARK SWEENEY, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY LIBRARIAN OF CONGRESS
SHIRA PERLMUTTER, REGISTER OF COPYRIGHTS/DIRECTOR OF THE U.S. COPYRIGHT 
    OFFICE
DR. MARY MAZANEC, DIRECTOR, CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE
JUDITH CONKLIN, CHIEF INFORMATION OFFICER
JASON BROUGHTON, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL LIBRARY SERVICE FOR THE BLIND AND 
    PRINT DISABLED

                   Opening Statement of Chairman Ryan

    Mr. Ryan. The committee will come to order.
    This hearing is fully virtual, so we need to address a few 
housekeeping matters.
    First, for today's meeting, the chair or chair's staff 
designated by the chair may mute participants' microphones when 
they are not under recognition for the purposes of eliminating 
inadvertent background noise.
    Second, members are responsible for muting and unmuting 
themselves. If I notice when you are recognized that you have 
not unmuted yourself, I will ask you if you would like the 
staff to unmute you. If you indicate approval by nodding, staff 
will unmute your microphone.
    Third, you will notice a clock on your screen that will 
show how much of the 5-minute clock is remaining. If there is a 
technology issue, we will move to the next member until the 
issue is resolved, and you will retain the balance of your 
time.
    Fourth, we will begin with the chair and ranking member. 
Then members present at the time the hearing is called to order 
will be recognized in order of seniority.
    Finally, House rules require me to remind you that we have 
set up an email address which members can send anything they 
wish to be submitted in writing at any of our hearings. The 
email address has been provided in advance to your staff.
    Today, we are conducting three panels. First, the Library 
of Congress, then the Government Publishing Office, and 
finally, the Architect of the Capitol. We will take a 10-minute 
recess between Library of Congress and GPO panels. However, we 
will remain on this video feed, so members do not have to log 
off. The Architect of the Capitol hearing is scheduled for 2 
p.m. today, and we will reconvene at that time.
    I would like to welcome the Librarian of Congress, Dr. 
Carla Hayden, to present the fiscal year 2023 budget request 
for the Library of Congress.
    Dr. Hayden, it is always a pleasure to hear from you and 
your team. I see them behind you. So at the beginning of your 
testimony, please introduce your colleagues who will be joining 
you today.
    I would like to thank each of you for the extraordinary 
work you and your teams do for Congress and your devoted 
patrons.
    I also would like to thank Sarah Boliek, Mary Klutts, and 
the budget team, and the CRS staff for all their work during 
the fiscal year 2022 appropriations process. This staff can be 
relied on at all hours, and we appreciate that.
    Since its founding, the Library of Congress, the largest 
library in the world, continues to engage, inspire, and inform 
millions of patrons. Over the past few years, the Library has 
made significant strides in the areas of modernizing essential 
technology and optimizing operations to facilitate easier and 
robust access to its collections for Congress and the public. 
These collections are invaluable. They teach us of things past 
and the possibilities of things to come.
    Currently, resources for the Library of Congress are 13.4 
percent of the entire Legislative Branch budget, totaling a 
little over $794 million in appropriated funds in fiscal year 
2022.
    For fiscal year 2023, the Library has requested $824.9 
million. This updated request is $7.2 million less than the 
amount cited in the President's budget, and an increase of 3.9 
percent, or $30.9 million, over the fiscal year 2022 enacted 
total.
    Dr. Hayden, I look forward to your testimony. I hope you 
can expand on the Library's 10 new initiatives totaling $24 
million that aim to increase your investments in IT, ensure the 
safety of the Library's $170 million worth of collections, and 
provide the best visitor experience.
    At this point, I would like to yield to my colleague and 
friend from the Pacific Northwest, the ranking member, Jaime 
Herrera Beutler, for any opening comments that she would like 
to make.

          Opening Statement of Ranking Member Herrera Beutler

    Ms. Herrera Beutler.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    It is great to see you, Dr. Hayden, and your team from the 
Library for being here. I was laughing to myself because these 
are all the books I have checked out from the Library. I have 
not read them all, but they are right where I can see them when 
I wake up so that I read them all. So thank you. You fulfill 
such an important role for all of us.
    So Chairman Ryan went through kind of the budget request 
already, and I think that--so I am not going to rehash those 
numbers, but your request also asks for additional resources 
for new or expanded programs in technology innovation, 
financial infrastructure optimization, expanded engagement with 
visitors to the Library, and strengthening data analysis 
expertise. And we talked a little bit about some of this 
earlier.
    As the largest library in the world, the Library of 
Congress receives some 15,000 items each working day and adds 
more than 10,000 items to its collection. Among its 
responsibilities, the Library provides Congress with objective 
research to inform the legislative process and administers the 
national copyright system.
    It is great to see your doors back open--we talked a little 
bit about this--for visitors and researchers and your program 
opportunities being done online as well for those of us who 
have constituents a little bit further away than the D.C. Metro 
area. So I look forward to your testimony today.
    And, with that, Chairman Ryan, I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Herrera Beutler.

                     CHAIRMAN OUTLINES PROCEEDINGS

    Mr. Ryan. Dr. Hayden, at the beginning of your testimony, 
please remember to introduce any of your colleagues who will be 
joining you during your presentation today. Without objection, 
your written testimony will be made part of the record.
    Dr. Hayden, please summarize your statements for the 
members of the committee. Once you have finished your 
statement, we will move to the question and answer.
    Please begin. The floor is yours.

                     Testimony of Dr. Carla Hayden

    Dr. Hayden. Thank you, Chairman Ryan, Ranking Member 
Herrera Beutler, and members of the subcommittee. We appreciate 
this opportunity to give testimony in support of the Library's 
fiscal 2023 budget.
    And I am joined by my colleagues. Starting to my left, 
Shira Perlmutter, who is the Register of Copyrights; next, Mr. 
Mark Sweeney, our Principal Deputy Librarian; to my right, far 
end, Mary Mazanec, who is the head of the Congressional 
Research Service; and immediately to my right is Judith 
Conklin, who is our head of OCIO, our Chief Information 
Technology Officer.
    And 2 years ago, the Library did have to close its doors as 
the pandemic began, and we moved quickly and successfully to 
adopt new and innovative approaches to serving Congress and the 
American people virtually under unprecedented conditions. In 
fact, the pandemic accelerated our ongoing efforts to engage 
the public virtually and share our collections and services in 
new and exciting ways that allowed us to reach more people 
across the Nation.
    So thanks to the dedication and innovation of our workforce 
during the past year, critical mission efforts were able to 
proceed, including the Congressional Research Service and the 
United States Copyright Office. They were able to operate 
largely as normal.
    We also were able to produce a full year of virtual 
programming, including our National Book Festival, and we 
continued to work for the unveiling of the Visitor Experience 
that will begin in 2023.
    I would like to take this opportunity to express my 
gratitude to Congress for their support of the Library's 
priority needs, including our Library Collections Access 
Platform, L-CAP, the replacing our outdated security systems, 
and all of the things that are allowing us to operate 
virtually.
    So I come before you today to discuss the Library's fiscal 
2023 appropriations request, and it is an increase over the 
previous year for critical program investments that are 
necessary for us to continue to meet our mission.
    With the new and modern IT infrastructure in place, thanks 
to your support, we are now using continuous innovation and 
delivery to ensure that we are constantly optimizing and 
modernizing the technology we use.
    The cloud has become an important part of our IT planning, 
and the fiscal 2023 request seeks to establish a dedicated 
cloud management program that will enable us to integrate the 
cloud solutions into our traditional IT infrastructure, while 
supporting all of our business needs. The Congressional 
Research Service needs to adapt and optimize its information 
system, IRIS.
    Also, the Library seeks funding to stabilize our financial 
infrastructure. That is essential to all of our operations. 
That includes increased funding for the hosting of the 
Legislative Branch Management System--Financial Management 
System that supports eight Legislative Branch agencies.
    Also, this request this year is funding for phase two of 
Enterprise Planning & Management for the Library's Cost Center 
of Excellence. This will modernize and optimize our payroll 
operations. Many of them are now in a manual state.
    The Copyright Office seeks to expand its data analysis 
capacities in economic research and fee analysis so that they 
can have better information about their decisions with fees. 
And as we prepare to unveil the Visitor Experience, we are 
requesting additional funds for visitor engagement staff. And 
the Library expects a significant increase in visitors in the 
next 3 to 5 years.
    So, in closing, the Library's 2023 justification includes 
strategically placed modernization efforts, and with the 
support of Congress, we will continue to strengthen our 
institutional capacity to carry out our mission. I look forward 
to answering any of your questions or concerns.
    [The information follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Dr. Hayden.
    We will now start with the standard 5-minute rounds, 
alternating, and I will begin.

                         CYBERSECURITY THREATS

    I know how valuable the 170 million collections are, and we 
appreciate you and your team's vigilance in trying to keep them 
safe. I know you mentioned the cyber threat particularly coming 
from nation-states have recently targeted Federal IT systems, 
which is a deep concern to us. They are using very 
sophisticated and ever-changing cyber attack techniques.
    For example, beginning as early as January 19, the Russian 
Foreign Intelligence Service compromised several Federal agency 
networks after hacking the SolarWinds network management 
software used by those agencies. And we continue to be warned 
that a particular foreign government is exploring options for 
potential cyber attacks against the U.S.
    In light of this significant threat, I know you talked a 
little bit about the investments. If you could talk a little 
bit about that in more detail, also the challenges that the 
Library faces in preventing these cyber attacks, what this 
committee can do to help you address those challenges. And will 
this address your request here? Will this address the remaining 
recommendations and, if so, when do you expect to fully address 
those recommendations?
    Dr. Hayden. Chairman, you are certainly correct that our 
assets and our collections are very valuable, and we have a 
duty to protect them. And IT security, as we invest more in our 
IT throughout the Library, is a top priority for the Library. 
And we have strengthened our defenses in the past few years. 
And our CIO, Judith Conklin, is considered--and we are very 
fortunate--a cybersecurity guru. And she has emphasized 
cybersecurity in all of our efforts, and I think she can tell 
you much more accurately about what we are doing at this time.
    Ms. Conklin. Thank you, Dr. Hayden.
    We know the Library is a constant target, as evidenced by 
the nearly 200,000 attempted cyber-attacks a year, including 
many from advanced nation-state actors including the one you 
spoke about.
    With the committee's support, we have invested smartly in 
cybersecurity over the last few years, and our IT security team 
is officially on high alert over what is happening right now.
    We are working to meet three strategic IT security 
objectives: IT centralization, stabilization, and optimization. 
And the centralization is we have all of our IT security team 
within our centralized IT environment in OCIO.
    IT security enhancement for high-value assets, assets 
meaning we identify our highest assets and we treat them 
differently; We secure them more. And we integrate IT security 
in all of our Library IT modernization projects, so it is 
embedded within our development processes. We have made great 
progress on all three fronts.
    In addition, like DOD and other government agencies, we are 
implementing Zero Trust, and that is a network architecture to 
protect congressional and other high-value data. We are closely 
coordinating our cybersecurity efforts with our partners in the 
other Legislative Branch agencies, that includes the CIOs 
within the Legislative Branch and the chief information 
security officers.
    We also are receiving intelligence from the broader 
cybersecurity community, which we use to strengthen our 
cybersecurity tools, and then we are able to adapt quickly as 
we are alerted to those threats.
    Our main challenge is that we can never rest on these 
accomplishments we have already made. The threats are 
constantly evolving, and we must adapt in real time to thwart 
them. That means we are continually having to invest in the 
latest cybersecurity tools and expertise to ensure that we keep 
the Library and Congress protected.
    Thank you.

                           VISITOR EXPERIENCE

    Mr. Ryan. I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
    Quickly, Dr. Hayden, I am going to take a little bit of 
liberties and overrun here just because I want to get this 
question in, and then we will go to Ms. Herrera Beutler.
    Because we have had so many conversations over the last few 
years, when I was both the ranking member and now chair of the 
committee, around the Visitor Experience, if you could just 
give us a couple elements of that. One, you know, what is the 
status of it? Two, who are the private sector partners that are 
continuing to come in? I know you mentioned that last time that 
we talked.
    And also, given the fact that the Architect of the Capitol 
is involved with the construction, how is the project coming? 
And if you can give us a little update about that and the 
relationship with the Architect.
    Dr. Hayden. Well, I am very excited and [inaudible] Your 
support of the project, and the project is on track, and we are 
seeing results in the design phase, and we are actually moving 
into the construction phase.
    The three elements of the Visitor Experience, which is 
enhancing how people in person interact with the collections 
and the staff at the Thomas Jefferson Building, include a 
Treasures Gallery, first time the Library has had a Treasures 
Gallery. It is on schedule to open in late 2023. The Youth 
Center for the young and the young at heart is scheduled to 
open in the spring of 2024, and the Orientation Gallery and 
Welcome Center is scheduled to open in the fall of 2025.
    The fundraising is going well, and we are also meeting our 
schedule on that. We have major support from our philanthropic 
group, the Madison Council led by Mr. David Rubenstein, who has 
definitely taken the lead in making sure that we meet our $20 
million private fundraising goal. We have $15.7 million pledges 
in hand and $5 million actual cash in hand right now.
    We have been working closely from the very beginning, even 
in the planning stages--the initial planning stages on the 
project with the Architect of the Capitol. And there is a 
schedule of regular meetings with them and, in fact, I have 
been in contact with the Architect very recently to make sure 
that we are working together on any cost estimates. And as we 
go forward, we are about 50 percent in design right now. And so 
we are working with the Architect of the Capitol staff at all 
levels to make sure that we keep our progress going.
    And I am smiling because we just received, and I hope that 
the committee was able to receive, an audit of the project that 
was just released yesterday. And it was from the Inspector 
General, and it acknowledges that--and I will just have to 
quote--that the project is on schedule and within budget. The 
cost estimates are reasonable, current, and updated, and the 
Library is on target to raise the private funds as pledged.
    So we are very excited that things are moving along.
    Mr. Ryan. Fantastic. That is great to hear.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler.

                   COVID-19 AMERICAN HISTORY PROJECT

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And, wow, it is so great to hear on time and under budget. 
That is so rare. It is wonderful. Congratulations.
    I wanted to switch over to a project that I know you are 
aware of with regard to COVID. So we passed, the House passed 
H.R. 4738, and it is called the COVID-19 American History 
Project Act, and it was very broadly supported.
    And it was by Representative Julia Letlow from Louisiana, 
and her story is obviously unique. She is the widow of 
Congressman-elect Luke Letlow. So he was the 41-year-old newly 
elected Representative from Louisiana who tragically died of 
COVID before he was actually sworn in.
    So the bill directs the American Folklife Center at the 
Library of Congress to establish a history project to collect 
and make publicly available individual stories and record 
records of experience during the COVID-19 pandemic in the 
United States. And it also authorizes you to solicit and accept 
donations to carry out the project.
    Obviously, there are a lot of unique stories that need to 
be told. And one of the things I am reminded of is your Oral 
History Project with regard to veterans, which is just 
priceless, and I think this has that same potential.
    Has the Library initiated any planning for the potential of 
the project or explored any funding options to implement the 
project?
    Dr. Hayden. Well, thank you for that question, because the 
American Folklife Center is the most appropriate place within 
the Library to capture the stories and the histories of people 
who were affected by COVID-19. And we have started to 
investigate the resources that would be needed. And we were 
pleased that the projected legislation would allow the Library 
to solicit and accept donations to carry it out, because we 
want to make sure that it receives the same excellence in 
programming that the Veterans History Project has, and we would 
continue that. So we would need additional resources, and we 
are preparing what that would entail.
    And so we also, though, wanted to make sure that there is 
an awareness that we are already collecting materials about the 
COVID-19 experiences. We started immediately to have rapid 
response collections available for the public and, of course, 
Congress. We joined with other cultural institutions to make 
sure that, for instance, there are photographs that are being 
collected. We have artists who are responding to the pandemic. 
We are mapping the spread of the pandemic with data shots and 
all of these types of things, with bulk data from Johns 
Hopkins, and we are archiving pandemic-related websites.
    So there are a lot of efforts throughout the Library, even 
commissioning new works of music from composers in response to 
it. So we are looking forward to having more of an opportunity 
to just outline what that type of project would be and how it 
could work in the Library and the resources that are needed.

                    LEGISLATIVE INFORMATION SERVICES

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Okay. I am going to jump in. Thank you 
for that.
    Switching gears to the public meetings, we asked--the 
Congress asked the Library to convene a public meeting at least 
once a year for 2 years to discuss input from the Library's 
Legislative Information Services. And the Library held these 
meetings and, by all accounts, they were a huge success.
    But, obviously, you know, there is no requirement to do 
future meetings, and I just wanted maybe for you to share a 
little bit your assessment on the meetings, whether they were 
worthwhile and, you know, is your opinion on the two reports 
being submitted to Appropriations Committee regarding the 
meetings a good idea and do you have plans to hold more?
    Dr. Hayden. We definitely have plans to continue. The two 
meetings were very successful. We were able to actually 
incorporate some of the suggestions that were talked about 
during those meetings.
    We did note, though, at the second year, the second 
meeting, there was a marked decrease in the attendance, about 
50 percent. And so we are looking at ways that we could engage 
the public even more. And we know that possibly people were 
tired of looking at things virtually.
    So we really want to make sure that the attendance--and the 
next one is scheduled in the fall, will be coming up in the 
fall--that we find more ways. And so we will be watching that 
attendance with the meeting. Very helpful. We definitely want 
to continue.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. All right. Thank you very much, Dr. 
Hayden.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Thanks, Ms. Herrera Beutler.
    Next is the distinguished gentlewoman from Massachusetts, 
Ms. Clark.

               PHYSICAL STORAGE AND PRESERVATION STRATEGY

    Ms. Clark. Thank you, Chairman Ryan.
    And really wonderful to have you with us, Dr. Hayden, as 
always. And I would like to begin by thanking you and the 
Library of Congress specifically for correcting its catalog 
entry on the Armenian genocide to recognize that that was, in 
fact, a genocide.
    And I stood in solidarity with Armenian Americans in my 
district to commemorate the 107th anniversary of this atrocity 
just 3 days ago. And I cannot tell you how important it is that 
the world's largest library is now a proactive partner in 
promoting the truth about the 1.5 million Armenian lives lost 
in the early 20th century. So we are deeply grateful to you for 
that work.
    I am interested in learning more about the Library's 
physical storage and preservation capacity. I know the Library 
of Congress continues to expand its digitization efforts, but 
the number of digitized items represents just a small fraction 
of your overall collection.
    Can you give us a sense to what extent your current storage 
and preservation capacity meets your goals of expanding 
collections over the next few years, and what challenges are 
you experiencing in this area that this committee could be of 
help with?
    Dr. Hayden. Thank you so much for that question, because 
the Library is actually at a critical point in our storage 
efforts. We continue--we have our feet basically in both 
worlds. We are collecting and seeking out collections in 
physical, that require physical storage, and we also are very 
aware that there will be the need to increase our capacity for 
born-digital materials that are coming at the same time.
    But the physical storage needs are pressing with--and I 
think the committee is aware of the reprogramming for a module 
in Fort Meade, where we have our main physical storage. And we 
are really in need of making sure that that continues.
    And our Principal Deputy Librarian, Mark Sweeney, in fact, 
was one of the main architects of that program. And I would 
like him to give you more of a sense of why that is so critical 
to us, that physical storage.
    Ms. Clark. That would be great. And if he could also 
address how the development of Module 7 is going as well.
    Mr. Sweeney. Thank you very much.
    Preservation storage for the Library is one of our most 
significant challenges at this time. As you know, the Library 
has a 25-year plan for the building of 13 storage modules at 
Fort Meade. These are special modules in the sense that they 
are climate controlled and extend the life of a wide variety of 
collections. At this point right now, we have six modules that 
have been built and where collections are being stored.
    Module 7 was approved for funding in fiscal 2021 to the 
Architect of the Capitol. As a result of security concerns, 
that money was used for other purposes. The downside on that 
for the Library is that if we don't have funding for that, we 
will effectively run out of space at Fort Meade for collections 
beginning in fiscal 2025. And the timeline to build a storage 
module is about 18 months.
    Fortunately, the Architect of the Capitol has done a good 
job of planning for that module. There should be just a very 
limited refresh of the design, so we can move very quickly to 
construction. Actually, the site has even been prepped. Site 
work has been done. So it is shovel ready and desperately 
needed by the Library for our growing collections.
    Ms. Clark. Thank you so much.

                 VETERAN'S HISTORY DIGITAL SUBMISSIONS

    In my remaining minute here, I did want to just go back to 
something the ranking member mentioned, which is the Veterans 
History Project. Dr. Hayden, I wonder--we have talked about the 
inability to accept digital submissions. I wonder if you can 
give me an update on any progress on developing the digital 
submission portal so veterans do not have to submit their 
histories by paper or DVD.
    Dr. Hayden. We have made progress in that regard, and we 
are in development with OCIO to make sure that we can----
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Mr. Chairman, I am so sorry to 
interrupt. I cannot hear Dr. Hayden.
    Ms. Clark. It is all of a sudden very difficult.
    Mr. Ryan. Dr. Hayden, is your microphone on?
    Dr. Hayden. It is.
    Mr. Ryan. Okay. Maybe if you could maybe pull your 
microphone a little bit closer. Can you pull your microphone a 
little bit closer?
    Ms. Kinney. They are adjusting it right now. Are you able 
to hear me?
    Mr. Ryan. Yes.
    Ms. Kinney. Okay. Our team is working on it right now.
    Mr. Ryan. Okay.
    All right. There we go.
    Dr. Hayden, take your time and answer Ms. Clark's question.
    Dr. Hayden. Okay. This is an example of our crackerjack IT 
team that is with me today, and they are able to make 
adjustments on the spot. And we have had, as you can imagine, a 
lot of experience with that recently.
    And Veterans History, we have been able to do as much as we 
can to make sure that the latest technology is available to 
veterans so that they and their families can submit their 
stories.
    And so we have been able to do programming with, in fact, 
63 Members of Congress in the last year, and specializing in 
rural areas and giving workshops virtually. So the submission 
and being able to have veterans submit digitally is of utmost 
importance for us.
    And Judith might be able to give more of the technological 
aspect of that.
    Ms. Conklin. Thank you.
    Mr. Ryan. Yes.
    Ms. Conklin. For Veterans History, we do have an investment 
in it, and we follow project management principles to ensure it 
gets completed.
    I will tell you that I am a veteran and I submitted my oral 
history several years ago. It is an exciting project for the 
Library of Congress, and we will definitely succeed in this 
project.
    Ms. Clark. Thank you so much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Clark.
    The distinguished gentleman from the great State of 
Washington, Mr. Newhouse.

                          MASS DEACIDIFICATION

    Mr. Newhouse. Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
    Well, thank you for being with us today, Dr. Hayden. I 
appreciate that. Also, thank you for an opportunity to visit 
prior to the hearing so that we could talk in detail about some 
of your budget requests. I appreciated that time.
    I just have a couple of areas that I wanted to ask you 
about. The first is the mass deacidification program that you 
are engaged in. It has, I think, been ongoing for at least 20 
years, with a 30-year plan.
    Could you give us a little update on that, on the progress 
of that? And a couple things I would like you to cover if you 
could. Are you anticipating it could take longer than the 30-
year timeline that we have at this point? Also, the budget 
request has a $2.5 million number to deacidify--that is a hard 
word to say--the books that you have classified as high in 
value, or is that what they are for, and could you give me an 
example of the types of high-value texts that you are in the 
process of deacidifying?
    Dr. Hayden. Well, I want to start by thanking the committee 
for supporting the Library in its preservation rebalancing 
efforts. We mentioned some of the challenges coming up with the 
born-digital materials that will be added to our collections 
and the need for physical storage, so we appreciate that.
    And the program--Mark Sweeney was involved, in fact, in 
that program and how that was established and can give you more 
of an update on where we are. He has been with the Library 35 
years, so he was there at the inception.
    Mr. Sweeney. Thank you, Dr. Hayden.
    You are correct that in the very beginning of this program 
back in the late 1990s, it was envisioned that it would be a 
30-year program. However, the Library has been reducing the 
quantity which needs treatment over the last several years. In 
fact, Congress in the fiscal 2021 budget approved the 
retirement of this program with a 2-year funding of $2.5 
million, which we are on track to execute and to be able to 
wrap up the program at the end of this fiscal year.
    The items that we are currently treating are relatively low 
in number and definitely low in priority. Materials are 
primarily in our music monograph collection at this point. And 
we have swept through all of the high-priority subject areas in 
our general collections, as well as a considerable number of 
manuscripts from our manuscript collection.
    So we are fully on target to retire this program at the end 
of fiscal 2022 and will not be asking for additional resources 
for that program going forward. We feel that we can best meet 
the most pressing preservation needs of our collection with our 
new preservation strategy, which balances our resources between 
both our physical and our digital collections here at the 
Library.

                 ADDITIONAL STAFF FOR PROGRAM INCREASES

    Mr. Newhouse. Good. Awesome. That is great. Thank you.
    Then just one other thing, Dr. Hayden, and we talked a 
little bit about this in our meeting prior to the hearing. If I 
am reading correctly your budget request, there are 
approximately 5 dozen new FTEs funded. I know they are for 
several different responsibilities. Could you tell me, are 
those new positions for the Library or are there some of those 
that may be filling positions that, because of the pandemic, 
opened up, people were either let go or left and you need to 
bring the numbers back up to where they were?
    Dr. Hayden. Congressman, you are correct. Approximately or 
definitely 59 FTEs, and they cover the 10 major initiatives, 
the program increases. And that includes additional staff that 
we are adding on. I mentioned the Visitor Experience. We are 
adding staff to start engaging, to think about visitor 
engagement for the new visitors that are coming in.
    That personnel and payroll processing, that some of those 
items are in manual state. There are two FTEs that are going to 
be working on that new system. And, for instance, the cloud 
program office that we are establishing, those are new 
positions that will be dedicated to our cloud.
    Our project management and our IT management, those are 
also new positions. So what you see--and Copyright Office, for 
instance, cost estimators, and Shira could elaborate on that. 
Those are new positions as well. So these positions will add to 
the expertise of our staff members that we currently have.
    Mr. Newhouse. Okay. Well, thank you. That is good 
information to have. And I hope that is helpful to us to make 
the decisions we need to. So thank you for that.
    And just my last point, Mr. Chairman, I hope those Library 
books that Ms. Herrera Beutler has are not overdue.
    Mr. Ryan. We may need an audit.
    Mr. Newhouse. Thank you, sir. I will yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Newhouse.
    The distinguished gentleman from Hawaii, Mr. Case.

                 MANDATORY PAY AND PRICE LEVEL INCREASE

    Mr. Case. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Dr. Hayden, good to see you again. Just a quick real basic 
question here. I am looking at your testimony. The Library of 
Congress' fiscal year 2023 budget request is for $871.8 
million, a 3.9 percent increase over your fiscal year 2022 
enacted. And then you go on to say: ``This request includes 
$30.8 million in mandatory pay and price level increases.''
    And if I am doing all of that math, that indicates that 
virtually all of your 3.9 percent increase is in mandatory pay 
and price level increases. Do I have that right or am I missing 
something?
    Dr. Hayden. With the mandatory pay-related costs, that is 
$21.49 million. There is a price level increase of $9.27 
million, and that includes offsetting collection authority, and 
then you add in the FTEs.

                    FUNDING NEEDS FOR CYBERSECURITY

    Mr. Case. Okay. But I guess my point being, your mandatory 
pay and price level increases are virtually all of your--90 
percent-plus of your actual requested increase over fiscal year 
2022. Is that right? There is not a whole bunch left over if 
you take your $30.8 million of pay and price level increases to 
get to 3.9 percent.
    Dr. Hayden. Yes.
    fiscal 2023 net percentage increase clarification for the record
    The 3.9 percent increase in the Library of Congress 2023 budget 
submission is comprised of Mandatory Pay Increases, Price Level (Non-
pay inflationary) increases, new programmatic increase requests and 
non-recurring cost reductions (example: costs removed from the base 
after project implementation). The mandatory pay and price level 
increases for fiscal 2023 round to $30.8 million, however, new program 
request costs of $24.4 million are added and then costs for programs 
that are ``non-recurring'' ($22.4 million) are subtracted for a total 
``net'' increase of $32.8 million (or 3.9%).

    Mr. Case. Okay. And so when we are talking about things 
like, you know, cybersecurity, I guess my question is: There is 
not a whole bunch of extra money being asked for in the 
cybersecurity area or, for that matter, any other area, right?
    Dr. Hayden. The increase--we just talked about the 
specialized staffing that is going to be required for, for 
instance, the cloud program office, different areas in the 
Library. So you are looking at the cost of having staff and the 
mandatory increases for existing staff.
    For cybersecurity, I am going to have Judith give you more 
on that, but----
    Mr. Case. And how much additional are you asking for for 
cybersecurity? I am just following up on the chair's questions 
along these lines, because I agree with its importance. How 
much extra is over to cybersecurity?
    Dr. Hayden. When you look at--and I am turning to Judith 
now with how cybersecurity, the types of things that are IT 
related in our increases. Judith----
    Ms. Conklin. Yes.
    Dr. Hayden [continuing]. How much would you estimate of the 
OCIO program increases, that is the cloud, the cost estimating, 
how much of that would you think?
    Ms. Conklin. It is definitely built into the cloud request 
that we have, the cloud program office. And it is also built 
into our base in this year. We did have an increase in fiscal 
year 2022 from the agency to fund additional IT security needs. 
And IT security is built into everything we do. So as we get 
increases in our base funding, IT security is built into that.
    Mr. Case. Okay. So I think what you are saying is that your 
basic cybersecurity initiatives were built already into the 
fiscal year 2022 enacted, plus some personnel and price 
increases that are part of your 3.9 percent increase.
    So you are--in other words, many of your cybersecurity 
initiatives are already in fiscal year 2022. There is not a 
huge new amount. And you feel that you are sufficient in terms 
of the trajectory you are on right now, with some adjustments 
just for, you know, personnel and normal price increases, 
mandatory, right?
    Ms. Conklin. Yes. That is correct. We have been fortunate 
that we have had support from the committee for previous years' 
increases for IT security. As I said in a previous answer, 
depending on threats and changing IT security environment, or I 
like to call them bad actors, in the future, we might need, in 
future years past fiscal year 2023. But for fiscal year 2023, 
we did not----
    Mr. Case. Okay. Yeah, because you have made the point in 
spades to this subcommittee, and we have agreed with you, that 
cybersecurity is critical. And I think we are just trying to 
make sure that you have done what you need to do and you are 
making the request that you need to make to keep yourself on an 
improved cybersecurity track. So thank you very much.
    I yield back. 
    Dr. Hayden. And if I may, we can provide more details for 
the record specifically on the cybersecurity----
    Mr. Case. Thank you.
    Dr. Hayden [continuing]. Cost.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Dr. Hayden. Thank you, Mr. Case.
    The distinguished gentleman from Nevada, Mr. Amodei.
    Mr. Amodei. Hey, Mr. Chairman, thank you.
    Dr. Hayden, good to see you. Thank you for taking the time 
to chat, most recently last week. I have a few issues, but they 
are not directly relative to the budget hearing, Mr. Chairman. 
So, Dr. Hayden, I look forward to talking with you soon.
    And I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Amodei.
    The distinguished gentleman from New York, Mr. Espaillat.

                       FORT MEADE STORAGE MODULE

    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, Dr. Hayden, for being with us again and the 
services you provide through the Library of Congress.
    Dr. Hayden, your budget calls for a $51 million funding 
stream for the Fort Meade storage site. How will this funding 
support the Library's immediate and long-term storage and 
preservation needs?
    Dr. Hayden. The Fort Meade module, as Mark Sweeney really 
elaborated on, is critical to making sure that we have the 
capacity to continue to add to our collections. We just had, in 
fact, a very generous donation of a significant person, the 
creator, Neal Simon, that is going to be really pivotal for us 
in being able to show the creative process.
    And we have more collections that are being either sought 
or potentially coming to us. So we are going to have a need in 
the next 20 to 50 years to have the capacity physically to 
accept that. And Mark can give more on that.
    Mr. Sweeney. Thank you, Dr. Hayden.
    Yes, collection storage is always a critical issue for the 
Library of Congress, especially now for the Module 7, which 
obviously is at least 18 months behind now as a result of the 
change in funding.
    That new storage module would hold the equivalent of 4 
million book volumes. Right now, the Library has at least a 
million volumes that are improperly stored here on Capitol 
Hill, either on the floor or in triple shelving. And, of 
course, the collections continue to grow. We do that as a 
necessity. We are storing through Copyright a significant, you 
know, volume of daily production, as well as the signature type 
of special collections that Dr. Hayden just mentioned.
    So in order for us to achieve our mission, you know, the 
collections continue to grow and collection storage, high-
quality collection storage is critical to the Library.
    Dr. Hayden. And I have to add, as a librarian, this is 
almost--it is heart-wrenching to think that we would have to 
turn away collections and especially for the Nation's library, 
because we don't have the proper storage or the capacity. So 
thank you for asking that.

                 JANUARY 6TH IMPACT ON LIBRARY PROJECTS

    Mr. Espaillat. I also recognize that in fiscal year 2021, 
$41.5 million I think it was, was enacted for the construction 
of Fort Meade within the Architect of the Capitol's budget. 
However, circumstances now require the funding be repurposed 
for the support of urgent Capitol Hill campus security needs 
following the events of January 6th.
    What other Library projects were impacted due to the 
January 6th events?
    Dr. Hayden. Well, definitely the reprogramming of the 
funding that we were ready to go in design of that module was a 
very significant impact on the Library, because the timing now 
with constructing that module is getting even more critical for 
us.
    There were other aspects that the event of January 6th 
brought up was our need, and we were very pleased and grateful 
for the support for improved cellular service. That became very 
apparent. And we had support from the U.S. Capitol Police and 
the Architect of the Capitol to request that we have improved 
cellular service in that Thomas Jefferson Building in 
particular as well as our other buildings, and also to update 
our security systems, the actual devices, the cameras, and all 
of those things.
    So those, it brought it into stark relief how we have to 
update those systems that support security and observation in 
our buildings, and communication.
    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you. And thank you so much, Dr. Hayden 
and your team, for all the work that you do at the Library of 
Congress.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.

                     Chairman Ryan Closing Remarks

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Espaillat.
    I appreciate all the committee members here.
    And, Dr. Hayden, thank you for your discussion here today. 
As always, we are going to continue and this committee will 
continue to support the Library of Congress.
    You are invaluable to this institution, you know, and we 
all believe that it is our duty to protect the collections and 
give a good quality experience to the American taxpayer. So we 
are going to continue to support you on that. We appreciate all 
your good work. We appreciate your very sophisticated and 
diligent team that you have with you and surrounded yourself 
with some great people that can help us protect this 
institution for generations to come. So we appreciate you being 
here.
    Before we adjourn this panel, I just want to remind all 
members of the committee we are going to do the Government 
Publishing Office in 10 minutes. Please do not log off. We are 
going to continue to use the same line for the next panel. So 
we will just adjourn here for about 10 minutes and we will be 
right back.
    And, again, Dr. Hayden, thank you for your fantastic 
leadership. We appreciate you.
    Dr. Hayden. Thank you.
    Mr. Ryan. The hearing is adjourned.

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                                         Wednesday, April 27, 2022.

  FISCAL YEAR 2023 BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

                                WITNESS

HON. HUGH N. HALPERN, DIRECTOR

                   Opening Statement of Chairman Ryan

    Mr. Ryan. For our second panel today, I would like to 
welcome the Director of the Government Publishing Office, Mr. 
Hugh Halpern, to present the fiscal year 2023 budget request. 
Thank you for joining us today. We welcome you back to our 
subcommittee.
    This has been a tough couple of years for all agencies. I 
would like to acknowledge the staff of GPO for the 
extraordinary work they continue to do despite life's 
challenges.
    Congratulations to GPO on being recognized by Forbes 
Magazine as one of the best midsize employers in America. This 
is a testament to the hardworking individuals that continue to 
support this body and ensure that not only this body but all 
Federal agencies are able to produce government documents for 
their customers.
    The GPO fiscal year budget request is $130.9 million, an 
increase of $6.6 million, or 5.4 percent over what was provided 
in fiscal year 2022. I read in your request that this is only 
the second time in more than a decade that GPO has requested an 
overall increase.
    I look forward to your testimony today and hope it will 
shed some light on GPO's fiscal year 2023 investments, its 
strategic plan, and how these investments and plans will 
benefit Congress and the American people.
    At this point, I would like to yield to my colleague and 
friend from Washington State, the home of five active 
volcanoes, the ranking member, Ms. Herrera Beutler.

          Opening Statement of Ranking Member Herrera Beutler

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Way to start, Mr. Chairman, but 
nothing was effusive there for that introduction. Consequently, 
the only one that has erupted in the continental United States 
in the last number of years is in my district. So there you 
have it.
    Welcome back, Mr. Halpern. It is good to see you here 
today. And I know you have been in this role for a while, but I 
still expect to see you, like, on the Floor. So it is great to 
see you in this role. I am sure you are enjoying it.
    As Mr. Ryan said, the fiscal increase for 2023 is 5.37 
percent, and which it is astounding to think it is only the 
second time ever that you have requested that.
    A U.S.-based manufacturing operation with over a dozen 
offices nationwide and a mission to keep America informed, the 
U.S. Government Publishing Office, GPO, publishes and 
disseminates official government publications to Congress, 
Federal agencies, Federal depository libraries, and the 
American public.
    The GPO has used the resources Congress has provided to 
fully embrace the technological opportunities available to 
effectively fulfill its mission today. However, even with these 
successful technological advances, GPO has not been immune to 
the supply chain shortages and supply chain challenges that we 
have seen, whether it is cost of raw materials or just the 
constrained labor market that our Nation is experiencing right 
now. And my understanding is a significant portion of your 
fiscal year 2023 request is going towards personnel and supply 
cost increases.
    So I look forward to learning more about your plans to 
continue system and collection development, modernization 
efforts like XPub, and cybersecurity projects.
    So, with that, I yield back.

                     CHAIRMAN OUTLINES PROCEEDINGS

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Herrera Beutler.
    Mr. Halpern, without objection, your written testimony will 
be made part of the record. Please summarize your statement for 
the members of the committee. Once you have finished your 
statement, we will move to the question-and-answer period. The 
floor is now yours, sir.

                      Testimony of Hugh N. Halpern

    Mr. Halpern. Thank you. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Ryan, Ranking Member Herrera Beutler, and members 
of the subcommittee, thank you so much for the opportunity to 
testify on the fiscal year 2023 appropriations request of the 
Government Publishing Office.
    I am privileged to lead GPO's more than 1,500 talented 
craftspeople and professionals as we support the publishing and 
printing needs of all three branches of government, especially 
including Congress and the rest of the Legislative Branch. I 
appreciate the subcommittee's past support for GPO and look 
forward to continuing our partnership.
    For fiscal year 2023, as you mentioned, I am requesting 
approximately $130.9 million in appropriated funds, a 5.4 
percent increase over the prior year. As you know, GPO operates 
very much like a commercial enterprise, and about 88 percent of 
our $962 million revenue last year came from directly billing 
our other Federal customers.
    As you may recall from my testimony last year, fiscal year 
2020 marked GPO's first net loss since 2011. I am pleased to 
report that fiscal year 2021 marked a significant rebound for 
GPO, with a net operating income of $55.6 million versus fiscal 
year 2020's $21.5 million loss. Without the hard work of my 
teammates, we would not have been able to recover so 
decisively.
    We have taken concrete steps to ensure that GPO continues 
to be a great place to work, including government-leading 
telework and remote work policies. As the chair mentioned, that 
is why I was so happy to see that Forbes recently named GPO as 
one of the best midsize employers in the U.S.
    The agency's fiscal year 2023 request includes almost $83 
million for congressional publishing, a 5.2 percent increase 
over fiscal year 2022. This figure includes our estimate of 
Congress' needs and also factors in increased cost for both 
labor and raw materials. Of note, it is 32 percent lower in 
constant dollars than fiscal year 2010's congressional 
publishing appropriation.
    Our request for public information programs, which fund the 
Federal Depository Library Program, the operation of govinfo 
and other initiatives, the $35.3 million, a 3.6 percent 
increase over the prior year. Increased labor and material 
costs are also driving the increase in that request as well.
    Finally, we are requesting a total of $12.7 million in 
direct appropriations to GPO's revolving fund to support 
capital and IT investments important to Congress and the 
agency.
    Of note, this request includes increased direct support for 
the development of XPub, the agency's next-generation 
composition software. This software will radically change the 
print and digital composition process for Congress and GPO. 
Development of this system is critical for our partners in the 
House and Senate Offices of Legislative Counsel as well as the 
Clerk and the Secretary, as GPO is responsible for the software 
stack that supports printed and digital output. We expect to be 
able to deliver XPub for the printing of bills, resolutions, 
and amendments by the end of the calendar year, with deployment 
to follow on a timetable established by our customers in the 
House and Senate.
    These funds will assist us in the continued development of 
this system for other legislative products and help us to 
transition the system to a software-as-a-service so that we can 
ensure a future revenue stream to support improvements well 
into the future.
    We are also requesting funding to support continued 
development of govinfo, the world's only ISO-certified trusted 
digital repository. Last year, we celebrated the 9 billionth 
document retrieval on govinfo and its predecessor sites. It is 
a system that enjoys great success and great support, and we 
are requesting approximately $5.9 million to support the 
infrastructure, and that is nearly a million dollars less than 
we requested for the same purpose last year.
    Lastly, we are requesting $150,000 in continued funding for 
our cybersecurity efforts. And I am forwarding, as required by 
law, the agency's Inspector General's request for $1 million to 
outsource his IT and human capital operations.
    Thank you for this opportunity to present our budget 
request, and I am happy to answer your questions.
    [The information follows:] 
    
    
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                      COVID-19 IMPACTS ON STAFFING

    Mr. Ryan. I appreciate that, Hugh. Thank you so much.
    I have got one question that is very relevant to the 
Appropriations Committee. We hear that COVID has imposed a 
significant strain on the workforce as it relates to staffing 
levels. And combined, that presents a challenge for GPO to meet 
its deliverables to congressional committees and, in 
particular, the Appropriations Committee, during our peak 
times. Given these challenges, GPO still produces what we need, 
but it certainly hasn't been a smooth ride, as you know better 
than anybody.
    So if you could give us your perspective and comments for 
the record, what can be done in the future to make this process 
smoother, and what steps are you taking to ensure GPO has the 
appropriate workforce, in terms of both size and skills, in 
place for today and the future, especially given that half of 
your workforce is eligible for retirement in the next 5 years?
    Mr. Halpern. That is a great question. And actually, the 
funny thing is I am testifying on that very topic before the 
Modernization Committee tomorrow. So this is a great practice 
run for me.
    So we are really happy to support both the House and the 
Senate, but particularly some of our committees, like the 
Appropriations Committee, rely on GPO to produce the documents 
that they need to do their work.
    And you are absolutely right. At the height of COVID, we 
were running into significant constraints, largely because we 
were having to operate with about half of the staff operating 
at any one time. And we did that for two reasons. One was to 
improve social distancing in office areas that are pretty 
cramped and folks are put together, but the other was to 
maintain capability. So if we had a situation where somebody 
got infected on one shift and we had to quarantine everybody 
who was around them, we still had capability to meet Congress' 
immediate needs.
    Where that really manifested in terms of problems was a 
backlog in processing introduced bills. And I am sure all of 
you had some measure that probably wasn't headed to the Floor 
right away but was nonetheless important but was stuck in our 
backlog around May 2021.
    Once we were able to bring everybody back into the building 
and we rearranged office areas a little bit, but we also had 
the vaccine rolling out--so it all sort of worked together--we 
were able to clear that backlog in a matter of months.
    In May 2021, we had about 1,800 bills sitting in our Bill 
End processing unit, and we had that pretty much cleared out by 
September. Today, we are close to our weeklong turnaround for 
normal items, and then we are able to process priority items 
for the House and the Senate usually overnight, depending on 
length and volume and things like that. So we are about at our 
normal service level agreement for the House and the Senate.
    But the issue you bring up with our labor force is probably 
the single most difficult issue I am dealing with and, frankly, 
one of the most critical issues that we are dealing with for 
GPO for long term. You know, we are having extreme difficulty 
recruiting particularly for the specialized trades. So think 
proofreaders, bookbinders, press operators. Those are all skill 
sets that are in demand but are very, very hard to come by.
    Right now, we are recruiting for our summer class of recent 
graduates and interns and actually having great success there. 
And to give you an idea, 25 years ago, we brought in a cohort 
to our recent graduate program, and many of those people are 
the executives who sit with me at our leadership table.
    We expect to start recruiting our new apprentice class for 
proofreaders hopefully in the coming couple of weeks. We really 
want to sync this up. We will be recruiting a little bit 
internally, but we are also looking to hire recent high school 
grads, because it is a great place to work and a great skill 
set that you don't necessarily need a college degree, and we 
want to help train that next generation of folks as well.
    But I can give you one example of an area where we really 
have a critical need, and it is very problematic. Bookbinders, 
the folks who put together our passports, they--as I told 
somebody yesterday, I could stand out on the street corner of 
South Capitol and H Street handing out stacks of thousand 
dollar bills and still not be able to recruit bookbinders who 
can pass a background check and have the right set of skills.
    We have been working very closely with our unions to try 
and develop a new position that doesn't quite have the skill 
level of a journey person bookbinder but who can still operate 
some of the machinery. We are still in negotiations over that. 
We are hoping that will close soon, but everybody has sort of 
got to look for GPO's future long term in that effort.
    But, you know, we know that we have got to figure out a 
path to get more of these skilled folks in the door, and that 
is really one of the critical things, both in our strategic 
plan and our day-to-day work.
    Mr. Ryan. Let me ask you something real quick. So you 
talked about the bookbinders. What percent of the workforce 
under you does not need a college education that could use 
some--a certification, a training, I don't know what you guys 
necessarily call it, but what is the percent of your workforce 
that would not need a college degree?
    Mr. Halpern. So we are actually--in our Human Capital unit, 
we are actually going back through position descriptions to try 
and review for exactly that. So where we might have positions 
that had a college degree requirement that we really don't need 
it, we are trying to excise that so that we have got a broader 
base of folks to recruit from.
    And my own son is a really, really good example. Rather 
than going to college, he decided to enlist in the Army, and he 
spent the last 9 months learning a great set of skills that 
will serve him, not only through his time in the Army, but when 
he gets out into the world as well. And we want to make sure we 
are recruiting from that group of folks, because there are a 
lot of really talented, really great young folks who I think 
could benefit from the kind of employment we offer here at GPO.
    To give you an idea, the way our workforce breaks down, 
about two-thirds of the workforce is mostly blue-collar. We 
have got two-thirds of folks who have to come to work every 
single day. Their job is here in the building. We have got 
about one-third of our workforce, mostly white-collar, who can 
work remotely or use telework or things like that.
    So that is generally the rule of thumb I use, but I can get 
you more refined statistics when we are done.
    Mr. Ryan. Yeah. We would love to see that. I am well over 
my time.
    The distinguished gentlewoman from Washington State, Ms. 
Herrera Beutler.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    It was both exciting to hear that you are revamping 
everything, but distressing to hear that there are not enough 
people to bind books that can pass those background checks. 
That is astonishing. I am curious as to how we help fix that. 
Maybe give me that real quick before I get into my more formal 
questions.
    Mr. Halpern. Sure. And it is a problem. So bookbinders, 
press operators are really folks from a--and, you know, I think 
your dad was a printer.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. I was going to say. Yeah. He had to 
switch careers. He had done that my whole life, although he 
wasn't necessarily on the press operating side of it. But just 
the industry as a whole, the bottom fell out.
    Mr. Halpern. Right. Absolutely. So, you know, we are trying 
to sort of mine for both folks who may be in a transition. So 
to give you an idea, we are trying to stand up a second shift 
on our passport operation, and we have been trying to do that 
since I got here 2 years ago. We are just having trouble 
finding the skilled people we need to get that work done.
    So, for instance, when the Baltimore Sun decided to close 
its printing plant, we sent folks up there to try and sell them 
on GPO. You have got a bunch of folks who are going to find 
themselves out of a job, and we wanted to see if they would be 
interested in coming to join us, either as bookbinders or press 
operators or whoever.
    But part of the problem is, if you are working over in our 
passport operation, you have got to have a security clearance, 
and it takes us a while to adjudicate that clearance.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Like an SF-86, like the serious one? 
Like an SF-86, like the big deal?
    Mr. Halpern. Yes.
    You need to maintain a secret clearance, because you are 
going to have access to all of the anticounterfeiting features 
that we build for the State Department into the passport.
    And we have just switched over so that we are operating--so 
that we are only producing the new passport, the next-
generation passport, which is the most advanced identity 
document anywhere in the world. So we need folks who can sort 
of have access to the nitty-gritty of how all of that works and 
we are sure that they aren't spreading those secrets to folks 
they shouldn't be spreading it to.
    So, you know, that is just one of the complications we have 
got. I think we are kind of at an inflection point where the 
kind of education and the kind of work that folks are doing is 
changing, and we want to try and be on the leading edge of that 
so we can find new groups of folks, these smart folks in high 
school who may not want to go to college but want a good 
middle-class lifestyle, get them to GPO, because that is what 
GPO has been doing for generations.
    We have been employing folks, providing that great middle-
class lifestyle, and giving them the opportunity to produce 
things of critical need for the Nation.

                  IMPACTS FROM SUPPLY CHAIN SHORTAGES

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you for that. And thank you for 
the peek into the challenges on that.
    And I wanted--I guess along that line, I mean, that is like 
human capital supply chain shortages. Could you speak to us a 
little bit about the impact from the--around supply chains that 
have caused, you know, your budget request to increase?
    Mr. Halpern. Sure. So as a general matter, paper is a 
really good example. When we can get paper, it is usually 20 to 
30 percent more than what we were paying a couple of years ago.
    And the question is, is when we can get it, because what 
has happened--and you may have seen this in the Northwest, 
there are a number of paper mills up there. They are shifting 
their mix of products that they make, largely the cardboard. So 
they are supporting the Amazons and the Walmarts of the world, 
because that is where the profit is for them. It is less so in 
those printing grade papers that we need for the Congressional 
Record or for the other documents that we produce.
    So just getting paper is really hard to do. When we can get 
it, we are paying a premium for that.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. That is shocking to me if you consider 
how much Federal land there is in the West and the mortality of 
the land on the Federal forest, the Gifford Pinchot, which goes 
up around the Mount St. Helens, just to support other Federal 
efforts.
    I mean, we should not be paying a premium. Especially, I 
have some timber companies that have had to shift and it has 
been in large part because they can't rely on the Federal 
Government to get access to that. But that seems like something 
we could help with.
    Mr. Halpern. And we would love to have those conversations 
with both the timber folks and paper mills to figure things 
out. In the meantime, we have been trying to come up with novel 
answers.
    So, for instance, one of our teammates came up with an idea 
where we were able to take older rolled paper that we had that 
was meant for a different kind of press that we don't use 
anymore. We were able to send that out, have them basically 
slice that in two and extend our paper supply for several 
months. And it was a great example of sort of our folks' 
ingenuity.
    So we are working closely with some of the paper mills and 
paper suppliers. My deputy and I went out to go visit a paper 
mill few months ago. And now that things are opening up again, 
we plan to be spending some more time talking with both our 
suppliers and contractors to figure out where the problems are 
and how we can be helpful.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you for that. I appreciate it.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thanks, Ms. Herrera Beutler.
    Next is the distinguished gentlewoman from Massachusetts, 
Ms. Clark.

                            STAFF RETENTION

    Ms. Clark. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman and Ranking 
Member.
    And it is good to be with you, Director Halpern. I want to 
reiterate our congratulations on being listed as one of 
America's best midsized employers. And thank you for extremely 
interesting testimony and responding with these challenges with 
such ingenuity.
    Mr. Halpern. Thank you.
    Ms. Clark. And that brings me to one aspect of what we have 
been talking about with your workforce and ways you are trying 
to recruit and retain. With over half of your staff reaching 
retirement eligibility in the next 5 years, what are you doing 
to retain that institutional knowledge? What sort of plans are 
you making around that?
    Mr. Halpern. So that is a great question. That is actually 
one of the key elements of our strategic plan as we talk about 
how we develop the workforce, it is how do we create an 
environment where folks want to continue to work here at GPO.
    You know, we are actually blessed that so many of our 
employees really regard GPO as a great place to work. We 
literally have generations of folks working here at GPO. You 
know, I can point to our plant manager, who was the acting 
director of the agency for a little while. He started as a 
bookbinder, no college education. I believe it was 1968. So he 
has been here for 50-odd years and, you know, continues to 
provide us with great advice and counsel even to this day.
    I have a couple of bookbinders over in our passport 
operation who are in their 80s, and they still love coming to 
work every day. So, you know, we have this combination where I 
think people enjoy working here, and we want to keep that 
spirit and retain them as much as we can.
    But we also realize that at some point folks have earned 
their retirement and they need to enjoy that, and we want to 
facilitate that. So what we need to do is really recruit that 
next generation of folks who can work alongside our 
craftspeople, learn those skills.
    And we are really looking to invigorate these 
apprenticeship programs. So, as I was saying, we are starting 
with our first class hopefully here in a couple of--or 
announcing our first class here in a week or two for 
proofreaders. And that is going to be a fairly small class, but 
we want to ramp that up so that we are hitting sort of the 
journey person trades, so the, you know, bookbinders, press 
operators, those folks, typographers, hitting those folks, and 
then also extending that to electricians and plumbers, because 
we have got a million square feet under roof we have got to 
maintain.
    So I really want to reinvigorate that apprenticeship 
program, and I want to build partnerships with local high 
schools so that we have got a stream of folks where we can say, 
look, if you want to go to college, that is great, but if you 
want something else, we have got a training and job path for 
you to follow here at GPO.
    And it is something that is sort of tried and true and has 
worked really well in the past, and we just need to 
reinvigorate that.

                      FEDERAL DEPOSITORY LIBRARIES

    Ms. Clark. Amazing. Thank you.
    I wanted to follow up also on a discussion we had a while 
ago about Federal depository libraries. I see you have asked 
for five full-time--five FTEs for your enhanced outreach. I 
wonder if you could just tell us how that is going. And in 
particular, I am interested in your new pilot to help make 
government information more available, especially on topics 
related to women's suffrage, voting, civil rights, and other 
important areas.
    Mr. Halpern. So this has been a great area of success for 
us, and the library community have been great supporters of GPO 
long, long before I got here.
    The good news is we are actually starting to hire folks for 
those extended outreach programs, and our telework and remote 
work policies have actually really--actually made that a lot 
easier. We have actually gotten very good at on-boarding people 
who have never been here in D.C. Our IT team is great at 
getting folks computers and phones and all that stuff without 
them having to come here to headquarters.
    We have also been working on these pilot programs. You 
know, we have one I think that is ongoing right now with a 
library in Utah dealing with some of their World War II 
materials that are very rare, and preserving and digitizing 
those materials so they are accessible to everyone. And we are 
starting our next round with the pilot program, looking at 
different programs and accepting applications from libraries 
all across the country, so that GPO can partner with them to 
help preserve some of those Federal collections that we have 
out there.
    The other thing that I want to highlight in terms of the 
FDLP is we have a task force going on with both folks here at 
GPO, folks in the library community, and folks in the Federal 
library system, really looking at the future of the FDLP and 
what makes sense.
    And, you know, there is a lot of talk of the move to 
digital and should we have an all-digital depository library 
program in the future. I am expecting a report back from them 
by the end of the calendar year, basically saying, one, is that 
a good idea, and if it is, what does that program look like, so 
that we can develop a program that helps deliver information to 
all of your constituents and all of our customers. So it is 
really a key thing for us to look at going into the future.
    Ms. Clark. Great. Thank you so much, Director Halpern.
    And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Clark.
    The distinguished gentleman from Washington State, Mr. 
Newhouse.
    Mr. Newhouse. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Halpern, great to see you.
    Mr. Halpern. Good to see you, sir.
    Mr. Newhouse. And I got to say too, it is great to see you 
doing such a great job at GPO. We knew you would do what you 
are doing. Your work experience here with us in the House told 
us that you had a bright future. And just thank you for your 
hard work and your great leadership.
    Mr. Halpern. Thank you.

                UNITED STATES LEGISLATIVE MARKUP PROJECT

    Mr. Newhouse. In your budget request, you talk about the 
GPO completing the planning and procurement on the USLM, or 
United States Legislative Markup, which my understanding is a 
project to remodel bills and resolutions into a new format. So 
I would like to have you give a little more insight into that, 
what you expect to complete in this fiscal year.
    And also, I don't know if this is the right venue or if you 
are the right person to ask this question, but I think several 
States besides Washington do this, and it seems to me it would 
be good for the Congress to do it as well. When a bill is 
introduced that modifies existing law, it would--I don't know 
the right term to use here, but it would kind of be shown in a 
redline format so that we can see what language is being 
deleted or amended, and that would be very helpful. And I just 
wondered if that is part of what you are looking at in this 
USLM.
    Mr. Halpern. Well, let me take that second part of the 
question first, because that is a little bit easier. And this 
is actually much of what I am going to be talking about 
tomorrow with the Modernization Committee.
    So when we were a much smaller country, we made some poor 
decisions when we decided how we were going to construct our 
system of laws and, more importantly, how we were going to 
construct our system for changing those laws. And we made 
decisions that didn't really scale well, particularly when you 
bring them forward to more of a modern era.
    All of our bills, anything that amends current law is 
drafted as an instruction to an unseen clerk. And that makes it 
really hard to figure out what is going on.
    So the good news is--and I can't take full responsibility 
for this. This is really a Clerk project. But the Comparative 
Print Project will provide you the kind of view of a bill that 
you are looking for. And I know that the Clerk is anxious to 
get that rolled out to Members. I will let her talk about the 
timetable for that.
    But I have seen that system develop since basically--you 
may remember the Republican Conference where we adopted that 
rule from Mr. Posey that really spurred development of that 
system.
    And I have really got to hand it to the Clerk. She and her 
team have really, really put that together, through successive 
clerks, to really develop a first-rate project on that front.
    Mr. Newhouse. Good.
    Mr. Halpern. USLM refers to a much larger project that 
involves not only us in the House and the Senate, but everyone 
who might deal with legislation or regulation overall. And so 
one of the things to keep in mind is when we first switched 
over to digital typesetting in the early 1980s, that was based 
on a purely proprietary GPO system where all we could do was 
really--it described how these documents were supposed to look. 
The data wasn't particularly useful any more than that.
    And the best way to sort of see the poor effects of that 
are if you or your staff are trying to, I don't know, edit a 
passage from a bill in Word just to share with leg counsel or 
somebody else, whether you are trying to just copy that out of 
a PDF or use GPO's provided display of the plain text, they are 
terrible. They are awful. They are hard to use. I feel like I 
need to apologize for it every single time I talk about this. 
And it has been around for 30 years.
    Well, what USLM does--and this follows on to a program 
started in the mid-1990s, where we use XML, Extensible Markup 
Language, where we are describing not how things look but what 
they are. It is a subsection. It is a heading. It is a 
paragraph.
    And when you do that, you can apply formats on top of that. 
You can say, oh, headings always look this way, or something 
along those lines. But once it is data, you can use that in a 
lot of different ways. So you can build a system like the 
Comparative Print Project, where it is looking at that data and 
doing some really keen AI things, where it is saying, oh, I 
understand what the instruction is here, let me go out to the 
current law and lay those two things on top of each other and 
give you a display that is usable.
    We can do that--and there are lots of other applications. 
XPub is really going to be key to that. So what happens now is 
when you go to leg counsel and they say, Mr. Newhouse, here is 
your bill, and they hit control P to print, it takes a file 
that is drafted in XML, sort of the precursor to USLM, 
translates that back into GPO's typesetting codes, and then 
another program that was created by GPO translates that into 
what we call postscript, which is a page description language, 
and then Adobe Acrobat takes that postscript and produces that 
PDF that you see on the other side.
    There are multiple possible points of failure in that. I 
know that personally, because I have had to tell two speakers 
that their particular priorities couldn't go forward because we 
couldn't get it to print. And those, I can assure you, were 
uncomfortable conversations.
    Mr. Newhouse. I can imagine.
    Mr. Halpern. But XPub will take that XML or USLM formatting 
and spit that out as a PDF, or make it easily postable online, 
or, most importantly, give you a usable text display of that 
piece of legislation. So you can cut that off of the web page, 
paste it into your Word document and edit to your heart's 
content, and give that to leg counsel and go, here is how I 
want that to look.
    And so that is really one of the promises of the system. 
And we have got examples of that on our GitHub repository, and 
we hope to deliver that to the House and Senate by the end of 
the calendar year. We are working very closely with them to try 
and make sure that we can hit that deadline.
    Mr. Newhouse. Awesome. Great. Well, thank you very much, 
Hugh. Again, good to see you.
    Mr. Halpern. You too.
    Mr. Newhouse. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Newhouse.
    The distinguished gentleman from Hawaii, Mr. Case.

                          UNEXPENDED BALANCES

    Mr. Case. Thank you, Chair.
    Mr. Halpern, let's see, I am just trying to get the prior 
year unexpended balances straight in my head. So if I have it 
correct, your budget this year does not include somewhere in 
the range of $3 million, is that correct, in approved 
application of prior year unexpended balances to your costs?
    Mr. Halpern. I believe that is the case. I don't have those 
particular numbers right in front of me. But, for instance, 
those prior year unexpended balances have been funding XPub 
development sort of up to the last couple of years, where we 
have been required--where we have been requesting additional 
directed appropriations for that purpose, because those 
unexpended balances have been dwindling over the years.
    Mr. Case. Okay. So just to clarify, why do you have 
unexpended balances from year to year?
    Mr. Halpern. So the best example of that is the 
congressional printing appropriation. So the best way to think 
about that is it is a deposit account, or think of it as like a 
gift card. It is an $80 million gift card that we bill against 
for all of Congress' printing and publishing needs for a given 
year.
    Some years, we estimate what that number is, and some years 
we fall below that. Congress--there are fewer bills introduced 
or fewer committee reports or fewer specialized things. We 
don't have to do inauguration, so we don't have those expenses, 
those kind of things.
    Mr. Case. You say that they are dwindling. So, I mean, how 
long until your current balance is exhausted? It is a matter of 
years, I mean, because you are increasing your costs, right?
    Mr. Halpern. Our costs are increasing substantially. And 
the volume of congressional work is going up in some respects. 
Each year, we have a greater number of pages for congressional 
bills that we have to process. So, you know, it depends on the 
year. We have started requesting these additional 
appropriations, largely because those unexpended balances are 
no longer available.
    And I can get you a more detailed response to show you how 
that plays out over time. But if we don't have these additional 
appropriations, for instance, for the XPub development, we are 
going to have to find those funds elsewhere. So either we build 
that into the page rate, the rate we charge the appropriation 
for each page we have to process, or we have to cut back on 
other priorities to fund that one.
    Mr. Case. Okay, great.
    Okay. That is all I have, Chair. I yield back. Thank you.

                     Chairman Ryan Closing Remarks

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Case.
    If there are no further questions, again, we want to just 
say thanks, Hugh. And all of us who watched your work here in 
the House are really proud to see what you are doing, and we 
want to be here to support you and to continue to support the 
workers that are there.
    Obviously, you got some hurdles that we want to help you 
overcome with regard to the workforce and, you know, getting us 
the stuff that we need. So let's see what we can do in the near 
future to continue that friendship and that relationship that 
we have had with you for such a long time and making sure we 
get the products to the Appropriations Committee and other 
committees in a timely manner.
    Mr. Halpern. Absolutely.
    Mr. Ryan. We want to make sure we address that issue. So 
thank you again. Appreciate it. Make sure you tell all your 
team how much we appreciate them.
    And, with that, this hearing is adjourned until 2 p.m., 
when we will hear from the Architect of the Capitol.

                                         Wednesday, April 27, 2022.

    FISCAL YEAR 2023 BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE ARCHITECT OF THE CAPITOL

                                WITNESS

J. BRETT BLANTON, P.E., ARCHITECT OF THE CAPITOL

                   Opening Statement of Chairman Ryan

    Mr. Ryan. The committee will come to order.
    This hearing is fully virtual, so we need to address a few 
housekeeping matters.
    First, for today's last meeting, the chair or staff 
designated by the chair may mute participants' microphones when 
they are not under recognition for the purposes of eliminating 
inadvertent background noise.
    Second, members are responsible for muting and unmuting 
themselves. If I notice when you are recognized you have not 
unmuted yourself, I will ask if you would like the staff to 
unmute you. If you indicate approval by nodding, staff will 
unmute your microphone.
    Third, you will notice a clock on your screen that will 
show how much of the 5-minute clock is remaining. If there is a 
technology issue, we will move to the next member.
    Fourth, we will begin with the chair and ranking member. 
Then members present at the time the hearing is called to order 
will be recognized in order of seniority.
    Finally, House rules require me to remind you that we have 
set up an email address to which members can send anything they 
wish to submit in writing at any of our hearings. That email 
address has been provided in advance to your staff.
    The committee will come to order.
    For our third and final panel today, I would like to 
welcome the Architect of the Capitol, the Honorable Brett 
Blanton, to present the AOC's fiscal year 2023 budget request.
    Mr. Blanton, thank you, and thank you to the AOC.
    I also want to thank Jonathan Kraft and Christine Leonard 
for their work during the last appropriation cycle in getting 
us up to speed quickly as we transition subcommittee team 
members.
    For fiscal year 2023, the AOC is requesting $1.67 billion, 
an increase of $890.5 million or 115 percent in appropriated 
funds over what was provided last year. This is a significant 
request.
    I see that at least 71 percent of this increase is focused 
on addressing the physical security changes that have been 
recommended in reports following the January 6th attack on the 
Capitol. I hope you can provide details on the additional needs 
for this increase in your testimony here today.
    A smoothly functioning AOC is important to all Members and 
staff. We understand the workload for AOC staff continues to 
increase as you continue to work on ongoing projects and 
simultaneously addressing the new challenges that have arisen 
this past year.
    On top of that, the AOC continues to face a significant 
backlog of substantial facility renovation needs, both 
immediate and long term. New construction projects require 
design and implementation, and there continues to be concerns 
regarding discrimination in the AOC workplace.
    As you tackle these very important issues, you will have 
our subcommittee's support. However, it is critical you give us 
some reassurances today about how your budget request addresses 
these challenges.
    At this point, I would like to yield to my colleague and 
friend from Washington State, the ranking member, Jaime Herrera 
Beutler, for any opening comments that she would like to make.

          Opening Statement of Ranking Member Herrera Beutler

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. All right. I got the mute button off.
    Thank you, Chairman Ryan.
    And, Mr. Blanton, thank you so much for being here today.
    So I wanted to start off with saying I really appreciate 
how proactive you have been on reaching out on a number of 
things that the AOC has been working on and including this 
year's budget request. I think it helped us put it in 
perspective a little bit. A little bit of sticker shock, but it 
was helpful to get that information beforehand.
    And I want to say thank you to your staff for their due 
diligence and really hard work over the past year in dealing 
with a lot of challenging circumstances across the Capitol 
community and working in coordination with the Office of the 
Attending Physician, the Capitol Police, and the other entities 
to prepare the campus to open its doors to our--reopen our 
doors to our constituents in light of all of that.
    In addition to the major undertakings that you all are 
already engaged in, such as the Cannon House Office Building 
renewal and the pipe replacement at the Capitol Power Plant, 
the AOC is asking for--it is a substantial increase to address 
security recommendations in the aftermath of the January 6th 
riot. I don't even know what the right word is.
    Mr. Blanton, I fully support doing what needs to be done to 
keep everyone who passes through the doors of Congress safe: 
visitors, staff, Member alike. But, obviously, when we are 
discussing this much money, we need to do it with the utmost 
scrutiny and transparency, which I know you agree.
    So I know that some of the information does need to remain 
classified, but you have also agreed publicly, you know, that 
there is a lot around here that has been overclassified and 
there does need to be, where we can make it happen, more 
transparency. So I agree with that. I think that the taxpayer 
dollars we are using, obviously, it is not private money, and 
we want to make sure that we are doing everything we can to 
open up as much as we can so that folks know, the American 
taxpayer knows that what they are paying for and what the 
return on that is.
    And I think there is a good story to tell. I think that is 
part of why opening up on the transparency sometimes will help 
us tell that story to the public more, and I think it will make 
it go a lot further.
    So I look forward to your testimony and how your office is 
going to move forward in this, in many of these initiatives in 
order to execute this mission.
    And, with that, I yield back to Chairman Ryan from the 
State where the first ambulance service was established in 
Cincinnati. So thank you.

                     CHAIRMAN OUTLINES PROCEEDINGS

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you for that reminder, Ms. Herrera Beutler. 
I appreciate it.
    Without objection, Mr. Blanton, your written testimony will 
be made part of the record. Please summarize your statement for 
the members of the committee. Once you have finished your 
statement, we will move to the question-and-answer portion of 
our show. You have the floor.

                     Testimony of J. Brett Blanton

    Mr. Blanton. Chairman Ryan, Ranking Member Herrera Beutler, 
and members of the subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity 
to testify today. Before I begin, I would like to extend my 
appreciation for the committee's work to achieve the 
Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2022.
    I also appreciate the committee's strong support for the 
Cannon Renewal program. As the Cannon Building moves forward 
towards final completion, we are meeting deadlines and keeping 
the project on track. At the same time, we are making major 
progress with other prioritized projects and initiatives.
    Before I go into detail about AOC's budget requests, I want 
to acknowledge two major anniversaries this week. First, we are 
joining communities around the Nation to celebrate the 200th 
anniversary of Frederick Law Olmsted's birth. The founder of 
American landscape architecture, Olmsted designed many of our 
country's favorite parks.
    Relevant to today's hearing, he was the visionary behind 
the plan for the Capitol Grounds. Enduring for centuries, 
Olmsted's design accentuates the unforgettable experience of 
looking upon the Capitol Building.
    Beyond his enduring design, Olmsted's detailed plan 
included the lanterns and walkways that AOC preserves and 
maintains today. AOC's arborists still care for about 40 of the 
original trees planted as part of Olmsted's plan. Perhaps 
unknowingly, many visitors continue to be inspired by Olmsted's 
majestic and unforgettable vision for our treasured Capitol 
Building.
    As we enjoy the beautiful environment in the springtime, we 
are also honoring another significant milestone, the 
bicentennial commemoration for the two-term President, Ulysses 
S. Grant. Particularly relevant for AOC and this committee, we 
are honoring the 100th anniversary of the Grant Memorial. 
Situated at the edge of Union Square Reflecting Pool with the 
Capitol as its backdrop, this historic monument marks the 
eastern side of the National Mall. Henry Merwin Shrady spent 
over 20 years creating this sculpture, which is now recognized 
as the largest equestrian monument in the country.
    Eleven years ago, AOC took responsibility for the 
Memorial's preservation. Since then, we have undertaken a 
meticulous conservation effort to restore it to its original 
splendor, highlighting the details of the original sculpture.
    Facing the Lincoln Memorial, the monument symbolizes the 
bond between the President and the general who fought together 
to save our Nation.
    Embodying that same spirit, AOC employees have remained 
steadfast in their unwavering service in the face of adversity 
over the last 2 years. Every day, I am struck by the commitment 
and talent of our hardworking employees. Whatever the weather, 
our grounds teams work diligently to maintain this oasis where 
nature can flourish, surrounded by the large urban forest. And 
throughout our entire agency, the legacy of our Nation's 
founder continues to inspire us.
    Today's vision and mission are clear: The U.S. Capitol is a 
symbol of Western democracy and an historic landmark. It is 
also one of the most architecturally significant buildings in 
the entire world.
    As we consider what the next century will bring, we are 
engaging in our own visionary process for the Capitol's future 
that will include an updated, comprehensive master plan.
    At the same time, AOC employees are working tirelessly to 
upgrade capabilities and facilities to meet the technical, 
space, and accessibility needs of the 21st century workforce. 
United in our shared mission and goals, AOC staff has improved 
security measures across campus, in close coordination with the 
Capitol Police, as well as the House and Senate Sergeant at 
Arms.
    While some of these changes are more visible than others, 
we have worked continuously throughout the pandemic to preserve 
and maintain the Capitol complex. AOC's budget request seeks 
additional support for critical measures to ensure safety of 
Members of Congress, staff, and visitors on campus.
    As the subcommittee considers campus-wide security 
improvements, the AOC needs adequate resources to support our 
partners in the Capitol Police, as well as the House and Senate 
Sergeant at Arms. We must work together efficiently and 
immediately so that resources are appropriately aligned towards 
our shared priorities. Our safety and security depend upon our 
united strength and collaboration. With the committee's full 
support and sufficient resources, I stand ready to implement 
these urgent and necessary requirements.
    As this committee knows, delayed funding has consequences. 
We are working constantly to reconcile the cost of historic 
preservation and pressing modern demands. We need to take 
immediate steps to address deferred maintenance across the 
Capitol complex. AOC's budget request reflects essential life 
safety projects for the safety of all and well-being of 
everyone who works and visits here.
    While physical security and infrastructure improvements are 
top priorities, I also remain focused on transformative change 
within the AOC. We need to cultivate and maintain a positive 
and productive work environment where people have the necessary 
skills, training, equipment, and support.
    Every day, I am continually impressed and inspired by the 
expertise, tenacity, and determination of AOC employees. 
Reflecting a wide range of roles and responsibilities, we are 
all contributing to the success of Congress, the Supreme Court, 
and the Library of Congress. Together, we are getting the job 
done for the American people.
    Despite all the challenges we have overcome during the past 
2 years, I remain optimistic and determined about our way 
forward. The Capitol will continue to endure as a beacon of 
democracy, serving and inspiring future generations, yet our 
success depends upon our collective ability to be consistent 
and unwavering in our focus, commitment, and results.
    On behalf of the Architect of the Capitol staff, I thank 
you for your support, and look forward to answering your 
questions.
    [The information follows:]
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                   SECURITY NEEDS IN FY 2023 REQUEST

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Blanton. We appreciate it. We 
appreciate your testimony.
    We know you are seeking to implement a lot of the 
recommendations that were given to you for improvements to 
build the whole campus up and to provide security. So I have 
got two or three questions along those lines, because, as Ms. 
Herrera Beutler said, this is a significant increase that you 
are requesting.
    So if you could, you know, share with us a little bit just 
to give us a little background on what you all have done 
already with regard to safety around the campus. What is the 
coordination level that you are having right now with the 
Capitol Police and the Sergeant at Arms around the security, 
and how does the budget request correspond to funding requests 
from the Capitol Police? If you can kind of go through that for 
us, it would be terrific.
    Mr. Blanton. Yes. Thank you.
    Over the past year, we have done, using existing 
appropriations--well, let me back up.
    Immediately following the events of January 6th, we asked 
for transfer authority so that we could do a comprehensive 
physical security assessment of the Capitol Building and the 
Capitol complex. This assessment broke the Capitol into several 
zones where we were looking at the different security ratings 
within these zones.
    Paramount to this was making sure that we aren't defending 
ourselves against the last battle, but realizing that taking 
lessons learned from the events of January 6th and using that 
to inform a number of different threat scenarios across the 
campus. Concurrently, we have been doing upgrades to the 
Chamber--the House Chamber. The Speaker's lobby was upgraded, 
the Chamber doors were upgraded, and also the gallery was 
upgraded.
    We also built a new foundation alarm around the Capitol 
Building that will help deter and identify when people are 
trying to scale the Capitol. We have upgraded kiosks for the 
Capitol Police. We have in the House leadership offices within 
the Capitol Building installed peepholes to the leadership 
doors, installed anti-intrusion hinges on leadership doors, and 
other security devices. So there has been a great deal of work 
that is going on.
    The current projects that are identified in the AOC's 2023 
request have been greatly coordinated with both the House and 
the Senate Sergeant at Arms. They were involved in the process 
from the beginning, as well as the Capitol Police, to develop 
what the scope for the comprehensive security assessment and 
the mitigations that we are asking to fund afterwards.
    And can you forgive me, I can't remember what your third 
question was. Capitol Police. I apologize.
    The Capitol Police is getting a significant increase in 
their manning and budget and personnel requirements. You will 
see in my budget is a commensurate increase, because, for 
example, when you have more officers, we need to lease more 
space and they need more storage, and so there is a tail 
associated with the increase in Capitol Police.
    I will say, we have worked very closely together to ensure 
that any Capitol Police initiative has identified the AOC 
portion of that initiative so that we can determine and have 
full visibility of what the solution on the Capitol Police side 
is, and what it involves on the AOC side.

                           FY 2023 PRIORITIES

    Mr. Ryan. And now, what other priorities are reflected in 
here that maybe you haven't mentioned? I will give you a minute 
or two to answer that.
    Mr. Blanton. Thank you.
    Mr. Ryan. Outside of the comprehensive assessment.
    Mr. Blanton. Life safety and deferred maintenance. If you 
look at all of our projects, with the exception of the 
resubmission for the Module 7 book storage for the Library of 
Congress, every one of them is addressing either a life safety 
or a deferred maintenance issue.
    Of great concern to me is our fire suppression around this 
entire Capitol complex and the deterioration of the utility 
tunnels, the 4 miles of utility tunnels around campus. Some of 
these are being held up by wood shoring. I have people that go 
in there every day, and there is a risk that it could collapse.
    We have expansion joints. I don't know if you have seen 
videos in the past of where manholes were shot out 40 to 60 
feet in the air in New York City when these expansion joints 
break. And so that is a danger to not only my staff, but it is 
also a danger to anybody who is walking around campus at that 
particular time.
    Mr. Ryan. Ms. Herrera Beutler, 5 minutes.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    On that last front, has that--your request for funding on 
those issues, is this something that was made by your 
predecessor? I have a hard time believing that we have spent 
this much money on the Cannon Renewal Project. And some of it 
was really necessary and then some of it was just changing it 
and updating it. But it is hard to believe that some of those, 
like, whatever was more cosmetic or artificial is more 
important than what you just described.
    Mr. Blanton. These requests were submitted in previous 
years. In fact, all of them are really follow-on phased 
programs. They just get funded in smaller increments. And now 
some of the deterioration has been accelerating over recent 
years.

                              FIRE SAFETY

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Okay. Thank you.
    Well, let's talk about the fire safety piece of that. So 
you, you know, in talking about the--you shared with us your 
concern over the lack of sprinklers in the Capitol Building 
and, obviously, the hazard there. In the omnibus that was 
recently passed, there was $6.8 million to address that 
concern. Will that adequately meet that need to eliminate this 
hazard or do you need more--do you think more needs to be done? 
And then also, what is the timeframe for installation of a 
sprinkler system now that those funds are in hand?
    Mr. Blanton. Thank you. The $6.8 million was actually for 
design, the design effort for the sprinklers within the Capitol 
Building. It finishes the sprinklers in the basement and then 
addresses the sprinkler systems in the first through third 
floors. The fourth floor was done through in-house labor forces 
using our already appropriated money.
    With the timeframe, this is a very extensive design for 
this building because you have to make sure that we are not 
just putting red pipes up on this historic fabric. It is going 
to take at least a year and a half for the design effort, which 
would then put this, at the earliest, in line for a 2025 budget 
submission.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. So we are not getting any like actual 
fire suppression benefit out of that money this year? It is 
all----
    Mr. Blanton. No. It is designing it this year.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. We just hope that a fire doesn't 
start?
    Mr. Blanton. Unfortunately, that is the risk, and that is 
what scared me about the events of the 6th, if inadvertently 
something happened.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Started a fire.
    Mr. Blanton. Yes. I will say, we are going to be also using 
my already appropriated dollars from 2022 to do attic sprinkler 
system within the Chamber. That will make it so if we have a 
fire in the Chambers, that there will be a means of safely 
egressing out of it.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Something like the wood or the really 
flammable material. I guess it kind of just depends on the room 
you are in, huh? It depends on where you are at.
    Mr. Blanton. That is correct. Some of the rooms are----
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Better than others.
    Mr. Blanton. Yes.

                          CAPITOL POLICE BOARD

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Okay. We learned in an emergency, 
don't be in the Chamber.
    Let's see. So I wanted to switch a little bit to the 
Capitol Police Board transparency. And, you know, as the AOC, 
you are one of the three voting members now, right, of the 
Capitol Police Board. Last year, you suggested the Board does 
have some--has some needless secrecy.
    And I wanted to know, do you think that the--because they 
have made a lot of changes here. They are finally, you know, 
implementing those GAO recommendations, or at least a number of 
them they are on track to.
    Do you think it is still the case, in terms of the 
transparency of the Capitol Police Board, or are there further 
changes you would recommend?
    Mr. Blanton. I think the Capitol Police Board has made 
monumental improvements post-January 6th. The coordination is 
significant between all entities of the Capitol Police, 
including the chief of police and their staff, much greater 
than it ever has been in the past.
    And with that, there is definitely--and I don't want to 
speak for the other Sergeants at Arms, but we have a great 
sense of wanting to be as transparent as possible.
    Ms. Herrera Beutler. Good. Good. Thank you.
    That is all I have, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Herrera Beutler.
    We are going to the distinguished gentleman from New York, 
Mr. Espaillat.

                CONCERNS REGARDING STAFF DISCRIMINATION

    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you once 
again for allowing me to ask questions.
    Mr. Blanton, the AOC has a pattern of discrimination going 
back 20 years, and a pattern of settling lawsuits with no 
further action in terms of firing the perpetrators involved, 
who, in fact, in some cases was a supervisor.
    How will your budget address this alarming internal matter, 
and how will you hold bad actors accountable, especially with 
already two allegations just this year?
    Mr. Blanton. Thank you for the question. I can tell you I 
take this very seriously. I will say the allegations that are 
from this year are actually legacy allegations that were just 
coming up in court now. They have been reviewed by AOC, and in 
one of them it was determined that the allegations were not 
true.
    One of the challenges we have with it is when it goes to 
court the U.S. attorney that is taking the case oftentimes will 
do a settlement, and that settlement is not actually negotiated 
between AOC and the individual. It is between the U.S. attorney 
and the individual themselves, since they are representing the 
United States Government. And then we will find--like in one of 
the cases, we actually found out about the negotiated 
settlement by reading about it in the newspaper. We weren't 
even informed of it.
    What we are doing now is we are under a multiyear journey 
to change the culture of AOC. I am investing significant 
resources in a cultural transformation. This is starting from 
the top, where it is modeling good behavior, to now we are 
getting down into the more senior-level supervisors.
    We are, in areas where we are noticing issues, whether it 
is from discrimination or if it is just bullying or some other 
culture issues, we are having small working groups with them to 
bridge each other and teammates.
    The issue with AOC is some people come from various 
cultures all around this area. We are a very diverse, both 
geographically and racially, organization. And something----
    Mr. Espaillat. That should be a strength, Mr. Blanton. That 
should not be a liability or weakness. The diversity issue 
should be a strength. But if you don't have the systems there 
in place to keep people from engaging in this kind of behavior, 
it will continue to be a problem.
    Mr. Blanton. Those are the systems that we are putting in 
place because I believe diversity is a strength to an agency as 
well; diversity in individuals but also diversity of thought, 
because you bring in different experiences and different ways 
of looking at it when you have a diverse org--looking at any 
problem when you have a diverse organization.
    And that is what those small groups are really meant to do 
is to really build that glue that keeps the organization 
together and builds upon our diversity.

                   CAPITOL POLICE BOARD TRANSPARENCY

    Mr. Espaillat. Mr. Blanton, real quickly, as the Architect 
of the Capitol, you are one of the three voting members of the 
U.S. Capitol Police Board. The Capitol Police, including the 
Board, have come under significant criticism for a perceived 
lack of transparency and accountability to congressional 
stakeholders and the general public.
    In fiscal year 2021 and 2022, this committee directed the 
Capitol Police to create a process for the public to request 
records, to publish arrest information as data, and to make the 
Capitol Police Inspector General reports available online. So 
far, none of these directives have been implemented. Can you 
explain why, and when are they going to be in place?
    Mr. Blanton. Congressman, I will have to take that up with 
the Capitol Police and get back to you, because I cannot speak 
for the chief of police. I don't know----
    Mr. Espaillat. You are a member of the Board, correct?
    Mr. Blanton. That is correct. But I want to make sure that 
I am coordinating an answer with the chief of police so that we 
get you the proper answer. I will take that for the record.
    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Espaillat.
    And, Mr. Blanton, let me just say that I think the entire 
committee is in agreement with Mr. Espaillat in the issues he 
is bringing up, and we are very concerned about it and hope you 
will report back to us with the answers, and continue to try to 
change the culture there. And this committee stands ready to 
help in any way that we can.
    The distinguished gentleman from Nevada, Mr. Amodei.
    Mr. Amodei.
    Mr. Amodei. Thank you for your courtesies. We are just 
monitoring you. And I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. The distinguished gentleman from Washington 
State, Mr. Newhouse.

                      FY 2023 BUDGET JUSTIFICATION

    Mr. Newhouse. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good to hear from 
you, the chairman from the State where the home of the very 
first professional baseball team, the Cincinnati Red. Go Reds.
    Welcome, Mr. Blanton. Thank you for being with us. Just a 
real general question first. We did get your budget detail. I 
appreciate that. However, noticing on your website, 
justification for the budget has not been posted. And since we 
are looking at an increase from I think last year $782 million 
enacted budget to this year's request of over $1.6 billion, can 
we expect that detail to be posted soon, sir?
    Mr. Blanton. The justification for it?
    Mr. Newhouse. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Blanton. Of that, $600 million total are security 
projects so that detail won't be posted, but I will offer to 
have a meeting with you and discuss any of those projects in as 
much detail as possible.

                  CANNON HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING RENEWAL

    Mr. Newhouse. That would be very welcome. Thank you. I 
appreciate that. And maybe the rest--some of the other members 
of the committee might be interested in those numbers as well.
    My office is in the Cannon Building, and so the renewal 
project is reminded of several times a day. It was started I 
believe my first year, 2014, initially expected to last for 10 
years and cost $752 million. At this point, the last number I 
heard, we are expecting a $934 million cost. IG report of March 
of this year stated that because of COVID and the events of 
January 6th, cost to complete this project probably will 
increase by another $5.6 million.
    So a question: Is that correct?
    And also, I understand that the phases one through five 
include renovating the existing fifth floor of the building. Is 
that still the plan? Will the fifth floor continue to be worked 
towards completion?
    Mr. Blanton. That is correct. The fifth floor is in this 
phase and the last phase. We are still going to continue the 
construction of new suites and build-out of the fifth floor.
    The report the IG referenced, those were mostly historic 
costs that were eaten in the program. And when we received 
funds from the COVID and security supplemental, we reimbursed 
the project for those costs. And I appreciate the support of 
the committee for that.
    The latest increase from the integrated cost schedule risk 
analysis is really focusing on the inflationary aspect of the 
materials now. The materials have--they have gone wide in their 
fluctuation in cost. At one point, they were up over 100 
percent. Now they are down at an increasing of a 70 to 80 
percent for some of the key materials, like cobalt steel that 
are used for the walls and stuff like that.
    We are continuing focus on that, but we are seeing that is 
going to lead in phase three for a $33 million increase than 
what we expected. That was funded in our fiscal year 2022 
omnibus. I appreciate the great support of this committee for 
the Cannon Project.
    What you see in 2023 and on our 2024, that is really cash 
flow so that we can pay the contractor bills. It is not to get 
the award of the contract. That is what we needed to do in the 
2022 budget.

                         CAPITOL VISITOR CENTER

    Mr. Newhouse. Well, thank you.
    Short amount of time left, and I wanted to ask you a little 
bit about the Capitol Visitor Center. There is a request for 
over $27.5 million there. As far as I understand, the CVC is 
still closed to the public. It may be set to reopen soon, next 
month.
    As you can imagine, my office has been flooded with 
requests for constituent tours. In fact, a couple of weeks ago, 
I had a group of constituents that had to wait outside in the 
rain outside the Cannon Building in order to get through, since 
they have to go through my office for tours.
    Just wanted to verify that information, if it is still 
closed? Is it set to reopen? And if you could share with us the 
metrics you used in choosing the delayed reopening of the 
Capitol Visitor Center.
    Mr. Blanton. Thank you for the question. The Visitor Center 
itself is closed as an entrance to the Capitol Building. The 
reason for that is manpower for the Capitol Police. It takes a 
significant amount of police presence to have the main doors of 
the Visitor Center manned.
    The chief is confident that he will have--because of the 
increased number of people going through the Federal Law 
Enforcement Academy, that around the Memorial Day weekend, that 
he will have enough manning to open--partially open the doors 
in the front, which then would allow the rest of the Visitor 
Center to be open.
    Mr. Newhouse. Okay. That would be awesome. Thank you. Thank 
you for being with us today.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Newhouse.
    The distinguished gentlewoman from Massachusetts, Ms. 
Clark.

                          ENERGY CONSERVATION

    Ms. Clark. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, Mr. Blanton, for being with us again. I wanted 
to focus first on the energy conservation efforts that you are 
undertaking. I understand you are partnering with DOE, DOE's 
National Renewable Energy Lab, to complete an analysis of 
potential renewable energy opportunities. And I wondered if 
that analysis has been completed and, if so, if you could share 
some of the opportunities you may have identified.
    Mr. Blanton. The analysis is still underway.
    Ms. Clark. Okay.
    Mr. Blanton. I will be more than happy to share the results 
with you. I think it--I am excited for it. I will say that I am 
very proud in the energy conservation measures that the AOC has 
undertook.
    If you look at the goals that were established under the 
Energy Policy Act of 2005, when we used a baseline that was 
common across the entire Federal Government, we have reduced 
our energy intensity--and that is measured by the amount of 
energy per square foot--by almost 50 percent in a 15-year 
period, which is significant.
    If you were to rank all of the Federal agencies across the 
entire government, we would have the third greatest reduction 
in energy conservation--in energy consumption. And a lot of 
that is by our cogeneration plant that we got funded for 
several years ago, through an energy savings performance 
contract, and also due to these energy-saving performance 
contracts at various jurisdictions around campus.
    The study that we are doing with Renewable Energy Lab is 
now looking, instead of having them done in silos, like one for 
the House and one for the Senate and one for the Library, is 
doing it broad across campus so we can maybe get more synergies 
from the different jurisdictions.
    Ms. Clark. Well, that is great. How is--I know some of the 
early analysis was looking at solar. Are you evaluating the 
feasibility of solar across the campus?
    Mr. Blanton. Yes. Yes, we are. My rule of thumb is for 
every roof project we do, I want to have an analysis of solar 
to be put on that roof if we can make it fit into the historic 
fabric or structurally fit.

                  IMPACT OF JANUARY 6TH ON THE CAPITOL

    Ms. Clark. Great. On the condition of the Capitol complex 
facilities, I know the recent estimate of damage caused by the 
January 6th attack on the Capitol is a total of 2.7, which is 
up from the $1.5 million estimate from May 2021. I wonder if 
you could tell me sort of what drove some of that up, and have 
you initiated a comprehensive facility security assessment?
    Mr. Blanton. Thank you. I will answer the second question 
first. We did a campus-wide facilities--a comprehensive 
security assessment post-January 6th. We used the Army Corps of 
Engineers Threat Reduction Center, which really is their 
expertise in the entire executive branch. Like, for example, 
they do the White House. We have also brought in the Defense 
Threat Reduction Agency to come up with scenarios, risk-based 
scenarios that we would come up with physical mitigations to.
    And so that is complete. We have been briefing oversight 
and appropriators in both a classified and unclassified setting 
on this so that we could provide details at the appropriate 
level for Members and staff. I will welcome providing a brief 
to you if you are interested.

                        GENDER NEUTRAL RESTROOMS

    Ms. Clark. Okay. Great. I have two quick questions about 
restrooms. One, we have three gender-neutral or single-stall 
restrooms for five House Office Buildings. Do you have a plan 
for building out more of these in your renovation and 
construction?
    Mr. Blanton. The short answer is yes, because one of my 
initiatives is having a building official that goes through and 
reviews every project for code. So when we do a major 
renovation, it is now modern code to have what they call family 
restrooms. They could be any--male, female, and children can go 
in together. Those will be--those would be gender-neutral 
restrooms. And, we are looking to make sure that our restrooms 
meet ADA criteria as well.

                       FEMININE HYGIENE PRODUCTS

    Ms. Clark. Okay, great. Yes, we have a problem with that as 
well.
    Very quickly, I see my time is out, we talked in the report 
language from last year's budget about making sure that your 
budget covered free feminine hygiene products available to no 
cost in our House Office Building restrooms. Does your budget 
include that or do you need additional resources to get that 
done?
    Mr. Blanton. We don't need additional resources.
    Ms. Clark. Okay.
    Mr. Blanton. What we did identify is either, whether it is 
report language--and I would prefer if this is done joint 
between the House and the Senate and, say, across campus. The 
cost is small enough that it is already mixed into every one of 
our jurisdictions' budgets.
    Ms. Clark. Okay. Thank you very much.
    And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

                     CHAIRMAN RYAN CLOSING REMARKS

    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Clark.
    Mr. Blanton, thank you. We appreciate it.
    In the interest of government efficiency, we are finished 
with our agency hearings. So no one could ever say that the 
Legislative Branch Subcommittee is not efficient.
    But we look forward to staying in touch. A lot of the 
issues that the committee raised here today are very important 
for us, for our constituents who visit here, for the Capitol 
Police, and all the staff members that work here.
    So we got a lot of work to do, and we are going to go over 
your budget very, very carefully. We know it is important, and 
we want to support you the best we can. And we appreciate your 
time here today, and we will be in close contact with you over 
the coming months.
    With that, this hearing is adjourned.

                                           Wednesday, May 18, 2022.

                              MEMBERS' DAY

                               WITNESSES

HON. DEREK KILMER, MEMBER OF CONGRESS
HON. WILLIAM R. TIMMONS, MEMBER OF CONGRESS

                   Opening Statement of Chairman Ryan

    Mr. Ryan. The committee will come to order.
    This hearing is fully virtual, so we need to address a few 
housekeeping matters.
    Members are responsible for muting and unmuting themselves. 
For the purposes of eliminating inadvertent background noise, 
the chair or staff designated by the chair may mute 
participants' microphones when they are not under recognition.
    If I notice when you are recognized that you have not 
unmuted yourself, I will ask you if you would like the staff to 
unmute you. If you indicate approval by nodding, staff will 
unmute your microphone.
    We will begin with the chair and ranking member. Then, 
members present at the time the hearing is called to order will 
be recognized in order of seniority.
    We are using the 5-minute clock, which you will notice on 
your screen. It will show how much time is remaining. If there 
is a technology issue, we will move to the next member until 
the issue is resolved, and you will retain the balance of your 
time.
    Finally, in regard to adding extraneous or additional 
material to the record, per House rules we have set up an email 
address where members can send anything they wish to submit for 
the record after seeking recognition for its inclusion. That 
email address has been provided in advance to your staff.
    I am pleased to welcome each of you to the Legislative 
Branch Member Day hearing. It is very important that the 
subcommittee hear the concerns of our fellow legislators and 
members of the public before we begin the work on marking up 
our fiscal year 2023 subcommittee bill.
    We hope you are pleased with the progress that we have made 
last year on issues raised in the past concerning staff 
retention, salaries, interns, and Capitol complex security 
initiatives.
    We realize that we have more work to do. We look forward to 
hearing your suggestions, and we will do our best to 
incorporate them into the bill, providing allocations will 
allow us to do so.
    At this point, I would like to yield to my colleague and 
friend, the ranking member, distinguished gentlelady from 
Washington State, Ms. Jaime Herrera Beutler, for any opening 
comments that she may have.

          Opening Statement of Ranking Member Herrera Beutler

    Ms. Herrera Beutler. I am grateful to be here. Looking 
forward to hearing everybody's thoughts. I know some of you put 
a lot of effort and careful consideration into how we can make 
this place better. I am excited to hear from you all.
    And I yield back.

                     CHAIRMAN OUTLINES PROCEEDINGS

    Mr. Ryan. Great. I thank the gentlelady.
    I am pleased to welcome both the chair and the ranking 
member of the Select Committee on Modernization, Mr. Kilmer, a 
fellow appropriator, and Mr. Timmons, as our first two 
witnesses today.
    Your work to modernize Congress is appreciated. And, 
through our efforts together, Congress can continue working to 
become more transparent and more efficient.
    Mr. Levin, I also look forward to hearing from you today.
    Without objection, your full statements will be entered 
into the record.
    Would the Member representing the Sixth District of 
Washington, Mr. Kilmer, please begin with your oral remarks?
                              ----------                              


                                WITNESS

HON. DEREK KILMER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF 
    WASHINGTON
    Mr. Kilmer. Thank you, Chairman Ryan and Ranking Member 
Herrera Beutler. Thanks for hosting today's Member Day hearing, 
and thank you for your leadership and partnership.
    I am here to talk about the work of the Select Committee on 
the Modernization of Congress, which I have the honor of 
chairing in partnership with the vice chair, William Timmons, 
who is here too.
    The select committee's guiding principle is to make 
Congress work better for the American people. That simple but 
somewhat profound goal guides our work on the committee. It 
helps us identify institutional problems, and it helps us 
develop solutions to those problems.
    To date, the select committee has issued 142 bipartisan 
recommendations to make Congress more effective, efficient, and 
transparent on behalf of the American people. Those 
recommendations address a wide range of topics that include 
boosting congressional capacity, encouraging collaboration and 
civility in the institution, improving staff recruitment and 
retention, and modernizing technology, among other things.
    All told, over two-thirds of the select committee's 
recommendations have seen meaningful action toward 
implementation, with 30 of our recommendations having been 
fully implemented. The committee's implementation success story 
is due in large part to the hard work of our numerous partners 
in the House, including this subcommittee.
    And I first want to emphasize the important contributions 
this subcommittee made to modernizing the House workforce. The 
recent increase in the MRA, enhanced funding to compensate 
committee interns, the establishment of the House Task Force on 
a Diverse and Talented Workforce are all crucial investments to 
the capacity of the House. And this action and the Speaker's 
recently announced minimum annual pay will ensure that the 
House remains competitive in hiring and retaining expert staff 
to better serve the American people.
    This subcommittee also provided funding for a biennial 
bipartisan retreat. The select committee made that 
recommendation, to hold bipartisan retreats, and we are hopeful 
that it takes place next Congress and believe it will encourage 
Members to make connections with their colleagues and create 
trust and help everyone find at least a bit of common ground.
    Today, Vice Chair Timmons and I want to highlight some of 
the ways we believe we can continue to make progress to 
modernize the House.
    First, we support increased funding for the Modernization 
Initiatives Account, which this subcommittee established last 
Congress. Previously, the CAO requested $10 million for this 
account, and, since that time, the select committee has issued 
nearly 100 new recommendations.
    Increased funding from the $2 million appropriated last 
year would support projects undertaken by the newly established 
House Digital Service as well as initiatives by the Clerk's 
Office to establish a database of committee votes and adopt 
modern tools to help deconflict scheduled committee hearings--I 
say as I am in three hearings at the same time.
    Congress is stronger when Members find ways to work 
together to solve problems. This subcommittee can support the 
effectiveness of Congress by continuing to support expanded 
programming options that foster civility and collaboration 
through the Congressional Staff Academy and the new 
Congressional Member Leadership Development Program.
    Additionally, the Modernization Committee has put forward 
recommendations for the development of technology tools that 
would facilitate Members working together on developing policy 
initiatives together in a more collaborative way.
    Congress is also stronger when it receives and leverages 
the best possible information from the invaluable legislative 
support agencies. We would request support to ensure that the 
products, services, and outreach of these agencies are designed 
to meet the needs of an evolving Congress. Having the support 
agencies report regularly to Congress on any challenges they 
are facing accessing Federal data would also give us the 
opportunity to intervene, if appropriate, and help them to help 
us.
    I would also like to address the physical and digital 
accessibility barriers that prevent people from having a voice 
in the legislative process. I am requesting support--our 
committee is requesting support for removing accessibility 
barriers and providing greater information about entrance 
security procedures for visitors and staff with disabilities, 
as well as the establishment of a designated drop-off and pick-
up point.
    Finally, I would like to mention a request I made that 
reflects the spirit of investing in our staff and, thus, our 
capacity. I am requesting that this subcommittee look at the 
authority of the Student Loan Repayment Program and consider 
opportunities to open the program to payments of tuition as 
well as loan repayment. Tuition assistance programs are widely 
available in the private sector and in Federal agencies, and a 
House program would help us both keep expert staff here longer 
and actually help us develop staff expertise during their 
employment in the House.
    Making Congress work better for the American people is a 
worthwhile investment, and, on behalf of the Select Committee 
on Modernization, I appreciate your consideration of these 
requests. I am happy to provide any additional information to 
support your work.
    And, again, thank you for the opportunity to speak before 
the subcommittee today.
    [The information follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Ryan. Thank you, Mr. Kilmer. Appreciate that. And we 
appreciate all your good work too.
    And I just am very excited about what you guys have been 
able to present to us and others here in Congress over the last 
couple of years. I think it is really, really important. And I 
think some of the ideas you are putting forth this year are 
really important as well.
    So big thanks to you. Let's continue to try to see what we 
can do together.
    Mr. Timmons, you are up.
                              ----------                              

HON. WILLIAM TIMMONS, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA
    Mr. Timmons. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Ryan and Ranking Member Herrera Beutler, thank you 
for hosting today's Member hearing. And thank you for your 
leadership. You all really have been so critical in 
implementing a lot of the recommendations that the select 
committee has made. And we are just very thankful for your 
willingness to work together to really improve this place and 
heal this institution. We have made a lot of progress over the 
last 3\1/2\ years, and we have 7 more months, and we are going 
to be sprinting to the finish line.
    I am here today to talk about some of the recommendations 
the select committee has made to make Congress a more effective 
and efficient institution. I have really enjoyed serving with 
the vice chairman. Kilmer and I have become close friends and 
partners, and we have made a lot of progress, but, as I said, 
we have more work to do.
    I am proud of what we have accomplished since the inception 
of this select committee in the 116th Congress. We have proven 
that it is possible for Members from both sides of the aisle to 
sit down together, engage in challenging but productive 
discussions, listen and learn from one another, and ultimately 
find bipartisan solutions to the challenges that we all face.
    I also want to highlight your subcommittee's leadership in 
investing in the staff that make this place work. Expert staff 
ensure the House is able to carry out its Article I and 
oversight responsibilities. With the amount of money we send to 
the executive branch every year, it makes sense to make this 
small investment in staff to assist us in overseeing how that 
money is spent. Enhancing compensation for committee interns 
and the recent increase to the MRA send a message that we are 
building out our capacity to represent our constituents, and I 
just want to thank you for your work in that area.
    I also want to join the chairman in highlighting some of 
the select committee's recommendations that we think should be 
supported this year. A modern Congress is one that is well-
equipped to serve the American people, and we think that is 
worthy of continued support.
    I first want to underscore the importance of the 
Modernization Initiatives Account. This flexible account is 
important to implementing initiatives to make the House more 
transparent and accessible.
    Enhanced funding may help support the Clerk's Office in 
providing committee staff with modern tools to help deconflict 
Member schedules while we are in session. We have spent a lot 
of time talking about the calendar and the schedule, and we 
need more resources to really maximize our ability to 
deconflict our time on the Hill. So I think that is a very 
important area.
    We can do our best work when we are getting the best 
information possible from legislative support agencies. 
Providing the direction and support needed for the Library of 
Congress to produce nonpartisan summaries of bills before they 
receive votes would help us, as Members, be informed when we 
vote.
    If support agencies are encountering challenges accessing 
the data they need to do their work, they should be directed to 
report regularly on these challenges and any actions Congress 
can take to support their efforts. These agencies also need to 
ensure their products, services, and outreach are designed to 
meet the needs of an evolving Congress. We are constantly 
changing; so should they.
    This subcommittee can also promote civility and 
bipartisanship through report language--in particular, 
directing the Architect of the Capitol to explore bipartisan 
co-working spaces for staff, along with encouraging the CAO to 
build out curricula centered on civility and collaboration as 
part of the Congressional Leadership and Staff Academies. This 
can help generate a more productive work environment.
    The request that the chair and I submitted to you last 
month advanced select committee recommendations that will make 
Congress work better for the American people, and I believe 
that is a worthy investment. I appreciate your consideration of 
these requests, and I am happy to provide additional 
information to support your work.
    Again, thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with 
you today, and I appreciate your support in these endeavors. I 
yield back.
    [The information follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Ryan. Appreciate that, Mr. Timmons, and we appreciate 
your contribution.
    And you guys work in such a great bipartisan way, which is 
very refreshing in this body. But you guys just finding the 
sweet spot, finding the things that you can agree on and move 
together, I think, is very, very refreshing. And I know you 
have a commitment to reform, including in this institution.
    So we appreciate your contribution, how closely you work 
with Mr. Kilmer. And, you know, he has periodic spats of 
depression because he is a Seattle Seahawks fan, and we 
understand that. And so you are just going to--you know, I just 
want to give you the heads-up in case you catch him on a bad 
Monday, which he has a lot of. I am just going to--I will leave 
it at that.
    Mr. Levin, look forward to your remarks.
    Mr. Levin?
    Ryann, is Mr. Levin with us?
    Ms. Kinney. He is actually voting in a markup right now, so 
he is going to have to miss it.
    [The information follows:]
    Mr. Ryan. Okay. No worries.
    Great. Do any of the members of the committee have any 
questions for our guests?
    Mr. Newhouse. I have a question, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Ryan. Yes. The gentleman from Washington State.
                              ----------                              


                                WITNESS

HON. DAN NEWHOUSE, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE STATE OF WASHINGTON
    Mr. Newhouse. Thank you.
    And thank you, Mr. Kilmer and Mr. Timmons. Appreciate your 
being with us today and so much appreciate your work. I was on 
the select committee for the 116th and truly believe that it is 
an effort well worth it.
    As you remember, one of my focuses was improving civility. 
Maybe we have made some progress there, but there is still a 
lot of work to do in that area.
    And one of the things that I thought was a good result of 
some of the precautions taken during the pandemic was allowing 
the use of the Speaker's Lobby for Members' use only and not 
for members of the press. I thought it lent itself to greater 
opportunity for interaction between Members of Congress. Kind 
of a safe haven, so to speak, off the noisy floor, where you 
could have private conversations.
    And I see that that is no longer the case, and I just 
wondered if there was any progress that we might expect there.
    And, then, as far as modernization is concerned, certainly 
some people advocate for remote voting, and maybe some of that 
could be considered proxy voting. And I just wanted to put my 
two cents' worth in, that continuing the proxy voting should 
not be part of a modernization effort. I don't think it lends 
itself to good governance.
    But that is just my opinion about that, and I hope we don't 
continue that practice.
    So, any comments from either of you, I would appreciate it. 
Thank you.
    Mr. Kilmer. I am happy to take a swing, Mr. Chairman.
    So, first of all, Congressman Newhouse, we miss you on the 
modernization committee and appreciate your focus on civility 
and collaboration.
    Our committee has----
    Mr. Timmons. We will take you back. We will take you back 
if you want to come back.
    Mr. Newhouse. Would you? Oh. It is good to be wanted. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Kilmer. We have made a number of recommendations 
related to the use of space. And, as you mentioned, one of our 
recommendations was to have space, whether it be, as you 
mentioned, the Speaker's Lobby or just someplace in proximity 
to the House floor, that could be identified for Democrats and 
Republicans to engage one another, collaborate with one another 
outside of the eyes of the C-SPAN cameras and the press, where, 
you know, it would be valuable for Members to be able to have 
discussions. That exists on the Senate side. That doesn't 
currently exist on the House side.
    As Vice Chair Timmons mentioned, we have also made a 
recommendation to have some co-working space where, you know, 
if Congresswoman Herrera Beutler's team and my team are working 
on legislation together or on an appropriations request 
together, that there may be an area where Members could get 
together and collaborate, you know, that is kind of--with 
nobody getting a home-field advantage, necessarily, but just a 
place where folks can work together.
    Again, most modern workplaces have that kind of a co-
working space. A lot of the executive-branch agencies have 
that. Congress does not right now. And we have recommended that 
that be something that gets a good look.
    Mr. Newhouse. Good. Good. Thank you.
    Mr. Timmons. I will follow up with a couple things.
    We were able to make recommendations regarding a separate 
budget for committees to have beginning-of-the-year bipartisan 
dinners at the Library of Congress.
    We were able to make a recommendation that would facilitate 
additional bipartisan meeting space. I know you recall how 
challenging it was for us to find places to break bread in the 
Capitol, so we have made that recommendation.
    Obviously, we previously recommended about orientation, to 
make it more bipartisan.
    We do have a couple more--I am hopeful we will get a couple 
more recommendations in the civility space.
    I definitely agree with you that, once we get the furniture 
back in the Speaker's Lobby, it wouldn't be that challenging to 
have the reporters stay outside of the Speaker's Lobby. So, I 
mean, I think that is something we can explore going forward. 
We got have a lot of space in the Capitol, and they don't need 
to be in the Speaker's Lobby; it is not necessary.
    And then we also made recommendations to create more 
bipartisan space for both staff and for Members, hopefully, in 
the Capitol, outside of just the Members' Dining Room. So we 
are trying to create more opportunities for collaboration in a, 
you know, even playing field, not on one person's turf or the 
other.
    So we are still working on it very hard, and I agree that 
it is an important priority.
    Mr. Newhouse. Well, again, thank you guys for your hard 
work. And I think you have shown tremendous progress, made a 
lot of good suggestions, and many of them have been 
implemented.
    You know, I would consider coming back to the committee. 
The likelihood of disparaging comments of our favorite sports 
teams is less to happen on your committee, Mr. Kilmer, than 
this one.
    So thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Kilmer. You have my commitment, Dan, that we won't 
disparage any Washington State team.
    Mr. Timmons. At least you all have a State team. We don't 
have any professional teams in South Carolina. So, you know, 
there is that.
    Mr. Ryan. You guys barely have any college teams down 
there, last I checked.
    That is coming from an Ohio State guy. Come on.
    Any other questions for this very distinguished group of 
panelists?
    No?
    Great. Well, in all seriousness, you guys are great, and we 
really appreciate your recommendations. And you guys are 
digging into some issues that, you know, this committee just 
doesn't quite have the time for, which is the whole purpose of 
the Modernization Committee. And I think a lot of Americans 
would be very, very proud to see you guys working together like 
you are. So we appreciate it. Thank you for joining us.
    I want to take a brief moment to thank my subcommittee 
colleagues and the staff for a job well done--Faye and Ryann 
and Rachel on my team and the entire staff and team and all of 
your staffs as well. We got through a lot of material, a lot of 
hearings. And now we continue to slog through this and try to 
figure out what it is going to look like.
    This is our last hearing for the fiscal year 2023 budget 
cycle, so big thanks to everybody. And we will see you on the 
House floor.
    Thank you. The hearing is now adjourned.
    [Information submitted for inclusion in the record 
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