[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
TACKLING TOXIC WORKPLACES:
EXAMINING THE NFL'S HANDLING
OF WORKPLACE MISCONDUCT AT
THE WASHINGTON COMMANDERS
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
OVERSIGHT AND REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
JUNE 22, 2022
__________
Serial No. 117-88
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Reform
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available on: govinfo.gov,
oversight.house.gov or
docs.house.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
47-927PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York, Chairwoman
Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of James Comer, Kentucky, Ranking
Columbia Minority Member
Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts Jim Jordan, Ohio
Jim Cooper, Tennessee Virginia Foxx, North Carolina
Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia Jody B. Hice, Georgia
Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Jamie Raskin, Maryland Michael Cloud, Texas
Ro Khanna, California Bob Gibbs, Ohio
Kweisi Mfume, Maryland Clay Higgins, Louisiana
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York Ralph Norman, South Carolina
Rashida Tlaib, Michigan Pete Sessions, Texas
Katie Porter, California Fred Keller, Pennsylvania
Cori Bush, Missouri Andy Biggs, Arizona
Shontel M. Brown, Ohio Andrew Clyde, Georgia
Danny K. Davis, Illinois Nancy Mace, South Carolina
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Florida Scott Franklin, Florida
Peter Welch, Vermont Jake LaTurner, Kansas
Henry C. ``Hank'' Johnson, Jr., Pat Fallon, Texas
Georgia Yvette Herrell, New Mexico
John P. Sarbanes, Maryland Byron Donalds, Florida
Jackie Speier, California Vacancy
Robin L. Kelly, Illinois
Brenda L. Lawrence, Michigan
Mark DeSaulnier, California
Jimmy Gomez, California
Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Russ Anello, Staff Director
Chioma Chukwu, General Counsel
Elisa LaNier, Director of Operations and Chief Clerk
Contact Number: 202-225-5051
Mark Marin, Minority Staff Director
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C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on June 22, 2022.................................... 1
Witnesses
Roger Goodell, Commissioner, National Football League
Oral Statement............................................... 7
Daniel Snyder, Co-Owner and Co-Chief Executive Officer,
Washington Commanders
(Invited)...................................................
Opening statements and the prepared statements for the witnesses
are available in the U.S. House of Representatives Repository
at: docs.house.gov.
INDEX OF DOCUMENTS
----------
The documents listed below are available at: docs.house.gov.
* NBC News Poll; submitted by Rep. Foxx.
* Committee on Oversight and Reform Letter to the President of
USA Gymnastics; submitted by Chairwoman Maloney.
* Questions for the Record: to Mr. Goodell; submitted by Rep.
Comer.
TACKLING TOXIC WORKPLACES:
EXAMINING THE NFL'S HANDLING
OF WORKPLACE MISCONDUCT AT
THE WASHINGTON COMMANDERS
----------
Wednesday, June 22, 2022
House of Representatives,
Committee on Oversight and Reform,
Washington, D.C.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:10 a.m., in
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Carolyn B.
Maloney [chairwoman of the committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Maloney, Norton, Connolly,
Krishnamoorthi, Raskin, Khanna, Mfume, Tlaib, Brown, Wasserman
Schultz, Welch, Johnson, Speier, Kelly, DeSaulnier, Comer,
Jordan, Foxx, Grothman, Gibbs, Higgins, Norman, Sessions,
Keller, Fallon, and Donalds.
Also present: Representative Owens.
Chairwoman Maloney. The Committee will come to order.
Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a
recess of the Committee at any time.
I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
Good morning and thank all of you for being here.
Our hearing today is about protecting women--and all
workers--from sexual harassment, intimidation, and bullying in
the workplace.
We will examine one notoriously toxic workplace--the
Washington Commanders football team--and the response from the
NFL.
During football season, millions of Americans tune in to
watch their favorite teams. The NFL and its teams collect tens
of billions in revenues thanks in part to Federal benefits. The
NFL and its teams have one of the biggest platforms in America.
So what happens in the NFL has consequences for the rest of our
country.
The Committee launched an investigation last October after
the NFL refused to release the findings of an internal
investigation into the widespread sexual misconduct at the
Washington Commanders. The Committee requested these findings,
but the NFL and the Commanders have refused to produce them,
while also withholding more than 40,000 documents collected in
their internal review.
This lack of transparency suggests that, rather than
protecting women, the NFL is hoping to sweep this controversy
under the rug, just as powerful men like Dan Snyder have done
for decades.
Today we will hear from Roger Goodell, commissioner of the
NFL. I am glad he is participating, and I hope we will finally
get more transparency about what the NFL found and why Mr.
Goodell has worked so hard to keep it secret.
We also invited Daniel Snyder to testify today. But rather
than show up and take responsibility for his actions, he chose
to skip town. Apparently, Mr. Snyder is in France where he has
docked his luxury yacht near a resort town. That should tell
you just how much respect he has for women in the workplace.
Mr. Snyder's absence is all the more telling given that the
Committee released new evidence today that Mr. Snyder himself,
fostered the Commanders' toxic workplace. According to top
executives, he fired women--but not men--who engaged in
relationships with other employees, while defending male
executives accused of sexual harassment. And he kept employees
from speaking out through a culture of fear.
As one longtime employee described Mr. Snyder's tactics,
quote, ``If you don't obey, intimidate. If you still don't
obey, terminate.'' Finally, the employee added, quote, ``If
that didn't work, buy them off,'' end quote.
The Committee has also uncovered evidence that Mr. Snyder
conducted a shadow investigation to target his accusers, pin
the blame on others, and influence the NFL's own internal
review. He filed phony lawsuits to collect private phone
records, emails, and text messages.
The Committee has a copy of a dossier created by Mr. Snyder
using the information he collected. And this dossier is
absolutely astonishing and extremely disturbing. It shows the
lengths Mr. Snyder went to, to harass, intimidate, and silence
his accusers, including journalists, attorneys, and former
employees, anyone involved. It starts here just naming
journalists that he wants to investigate and investigated. He
sent private investigators to former cheerleaders' homes, and
he offered hush money to buy their silence.
The NFL was aware of his actions but failed to stop him. We
obtained a secret legal agreement between the NFL and the
Commanders that enabled Mr. Snyder to prevent the disclosure of
documents and information--including to this Committee.
Some have argued that protecting women isn't worthy of this
Committee's time. I strongly disagree.
And I'm not alone. In April, six attorneys general
condemned the NFL for its ongoing failure to address sexual
harassment and gender discrimination across the league. The NFL
itself has launched new investigations based on evidence
brought to light by the Committee.
For more than two decades, Dan Snyder refused to protect
the women who worked for him from the toxic culture he created.
The NFL has also failed to protect these women. Now I believe
it is up to Congress to protect them and millions more like
them. We have introduced two bills, along with Committee
members, to do exactly that.
Our first bill, the Accountability for Workplace Misconduct
Act, will require employers to conduct thorough investigations
and share the outcome with victims, and it will prohibit
employers from using nondisclosure agreements to conceal
workplace misconduct, one of Dan Snyder's favorite tactics.
Our second bill is the Professional Images Protection Act.
Our investigation confirmed that the Commanders secretly
created lewd videos of cheerleaders for the private enjoyment
of Dan Snyder. That is despicable, and our bill will create
notice and consent requirements for employers who use their
employees' professional images.
Let me also assure my colleagues that we can protect
workers while also making progress on other important issues.
Just this month our Committee held a crucial hearing on gun
violence and advanced legislation to protect LGBTQI rights. And
next week we will be hearing a bipartisan hearing with
President Biden's drug czar on the opioid crisis.
But today our focus is on protecting women in the
workplace, and I believe that issue merits our full attention.
In February, the Committee held a roundtable where we heard
directly from several courageous former team employees.
Before I yield, I'd like to remind everyone what they said
about the harassment they endured and the need for
accountability and they asked Congress to act. We will now play
a video.
[Video shown.]
Chairwoman Maloney. I now yield to my good friend, the
ranking member, Mr. Comer, for his opening statement.
Mr. Comer. Thank you, Madam Chair.
A toxic work environment is one in which staff fear meeting
or even talking to leadership, where staff is humiliated or,
worse, demoted, where employees are retaliated against for
raising questions about possible ethical breaches.
Now, where did this take place? Steps away from the Oval
Office at the Office of Science and Technology Policy within
the Executive Office of the President.
When? It started shortly after President Biden's
inauguration in 2021. The very day he was inaugurated, the
President said, and I quote, ``I'm not joking when I say this.
If you ever work with me and I hear you treated another
colleague with disrespect, talked down to someone, I will fire
you on the spot, no ifs, ands, or buts.'' Joe Biden said that.
It did not take long for those words to ring hollow. The
White House Counsel's Office had well-documented allegations
for a year, but it refused to hold bad actors accountable. For
all we know, the problems in the Office of Science and
Technology Policy may still be happening.
Have we had a single hearing about the hostile work
environment at President Biden's top science office? No.
Have Democrats even sent a single oversight letter about
it? No.
A core responsibility is of this Committee to conduct
oversight of the executive branch. But this entire Congress,
Democrats have turned a blind eye to the Biden administration.
Instead, the Oversight Committee's investigating a single
private organization for workplace misconduct that took place
years ago.
Let me be clear. No one should be subjected to a hostile
work environment, and bad actors must be held accountable. The
workplace misconduct that is the topic of today's hearing has
already been subject to investigations, fines, settlements, and
very intense media scrutiny. New leadership has been installed
and improved workplace policies implemented without
congressional involvement.
During the Democrats' so-called investigation, this
Committee has held a roundtable, two transcribed interviews,
two depositions, and now this hearing. Democrats, whose top
economic concern is that the NFL is not collecting enough
money, even urged the Federal Trade Commission to open an
investigation based solely on the testimony of a former
employee with an axe to grind.
Democrats' playbook is to focus ton past and ignore the
present and future, all these taxpayer dollars and staff hours
to reinvestigate what has already been investigated. No new
punishments have been levied against the Commanders due to this
investigation because they have already faced consequences for
their hostile workplace. No new relief has been granted to any
of the aggrieved parties because Congress has no authority to
provide relief in any of these instances. No additional
workplace improvements have been made due to this investigation
because, unlike at the Office of Science and Technology Policy,
the workplace overhaul has already begun.
I would ask why Congress must tackle the NFL football
team's workplace and not a White House office or our own
Members. I think we know the answer. Democrats are more
committed to politics than our Committee's mission.
Our Committee's mission is government efficiency and
effectiveness. Our Committee's mission is to protect taxpayer
dollars from government fraud, waste, and mismanagement. Our
Committee's mission is to hold government more accountable.
Instead of conducting oversight of the Federal Government,
Democrats investigate the private sector. While our Nation
struggles under the weight of growing inflation and rising gas
prices, Democrats are demanding oil and gas companies decrease
production. They did it right here in this Committee with the
oil CEOs down there.
Ro Khanna was the first one to ask each energy CEO: Will
you pledge to cut production? And now we know where the
President's headed in Saudi Arabia right now. The chairwoman
even subpoenaed the oil CEOs after they produced thousands of
documents.
While Americans are suffering from the effects of Biden's
border crisis, including fentanyl streaming across the border
and killing our teens, Democrats have examined paychecks for
soccer stars and held numerous hearings to demonize the oil and
gas industry and push their radical Green New Deal climate
agenda.
While mothers are struggling to find infant formula on
store shelves, Democrats held a hearing on pet flea and tick
collars.
It's no surprise that a nonpartisan organization gave the
Democrats an ``F'' in oversight. This Committee is failing the
American people.
I urge the chairwoman to get back to the core mission of
the Oversight Committee and do what the American people elected
us to do--conduct oversight of the Federal Government and the
Biden administration, which is on a path to destroy America.
Let's hold hearings and conduct oversight on the crises
affecting Americans today: 40-year high inflation, skyrocketing
gas prices, out-of-stock baby formula, a raging border crisis,
surging fentanyl overdoses, and our tanking stock market.
The American people expect us to be their voice in
Washington. It's past time we start doing what we were sent
here to do.
And with that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize the gentleman from Illinois, Mr.
Krishnamoorthi, for an opening statement.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'd like to address why we're here today. We're here
because sexual harassment remains a big problem in the
workplace. Even as we tackle other challenges in our country,
we must end sexual harassment.
Each year millions of fans, including myself, enjoy the
NFL. NFL teams, coaches, and players influence public opinion
on sensitive topics, too. For boys and young men, that means
taking cues as to how they should treat women; and for girls
and young women, cues as to how they should be treated.
That reality is why it's so important that the NFL hold
itself to a, quote, ``higher standard,'' as Commissioner
Goodell has said, and why the NFL must ensure that those who
fail to meet that standard are held accountable.
For the Washington Commanders, that reckoning unfortunately
has not come. By its own admission, the NFL says that, quote,
``The workplace culture at the Commanders was not only
unprofessional, but toxic for far too long.'' Numerous women
have accused team officials, including the current owner, of
sexual misconduct.
Several years ago, another House Oversight Committee chair
opened an inquiry into sexual harassment charges, that time
involving USA Gymnastics, explaining that USA Gymnastics set
the rules and policies that govern the sport of gymnastics and
has a significant responsibility to its sport and athletes.
That person was Republican Chair Trey Gowdy. We agree.
And, similarly, the NFL sets the rules and policies
affecting pro football, and it, too, has a serious
responsibility to uphold this sport. As one of America's most
visible workplaces, the NFL also sets the tone for how
employers handle sexual harassment.
Our colleagues on the other side have raised a number of
issues worthy of this Committee's attention, from gas prices to
the opioid crisis. We must continue to address those.
But at the same time, we must tackle sexual harassment, not
just for the sake of the Commanders' former employees, but also
for our constituents. Today we must send a clear message that
the conduct that took place in the Commanders' organization is
never acceptable, not in the NFL and not anywhere.
Thank you. I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize the gentlelady from North Carolina,
Representative Foxx, for an opening statement.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Madam Chairman, I'd like to echo the ranking member's
comments today. This administration is doing all it can to
annihilate America. It's like Nero fiddling while the country
burns. It's been widely reported that approximately 72 percent
of Americans think the United States is on the wrong track.
Chairwoman, with unanimous consent, I'd like to submit this
NBC News poll for the record.
Chairwoman Maloney. So ordered.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you.
Are we looking into what caused the 40-year high inflation
rate? No.
Are we examining how the FDA and Biden administration
failed to address the baby formula shortage? No.
Are we examining how and why teens are purchasing illicit
drugs on social media, leading to a record number of overdoses?
No.
What about the crisis at the southern border? Are we doing
anything to address the massive humanitarian and national
security catastrophe? No.
Instead, this is another day when this Committee failed to
do what the American people have elected us to do. Last week we
had a hearing on pet collars, today a hearing over a single NFL
team about workplace conduct that occurred years ago.
As the ranking member mentioned in his opening remarks, no
one--no one--should be subjected to a hostile work environment.
Bad actors must be held accountable.
This hearing is just another example of Democrats failing
to conduct meaningful oversight of the Biden administration and
the ongoing catastrophes fueled by President Biden's
incompetent policies.
The NFL investigated this conduct, and ultimately the team
punished the bad actors. The NFL is currently investigating
additional claims made.
As we sit here today, many American families are wondering
how they'll find formula for their babies or formula-dependent
children. Families are wondering how they're going to pay for
gas to get to their jobs or pay for groceries. Families are
struggling to make ends meet. And the Biden administration
continues to stand on the sidelines, sticking to their message
that a recession is not inevitable. Families are feeling the
squeeze now and there's no end in sight.
Children are suffering from extreme learning loss because
Democrats bowed to the teachers' unions and kept schools closed
for 18 months in some deep blue areas of this country.
The issues of the Washington Commanders and the NFL are the
last thing on Americans' minds. What is this Committee doing to
help families working to fix their wounded children and put
food on the table? Nothing.
We must reevaluate our priorities as members of the
Oversight Committee and refocus our energies on overseeing the
Biden administration and the Federal Government to ensure the
American people are not left behind.
Thank you. I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady yields back.
Now we will introduce our witness.
We will hear from Roger Goodell, the commissioner of the
National Football League. The witness will be unmuted so we can
swear him in.
Please raise your right hand.
Do you swear to affirm that the testimony you're about to
give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
Mr. Goodell. I do.
Chairwoman Maloney. Let the record show that the witness
answered in the affirmative.
Thank you. Without objection, your written statements will
be made part of the record.
With that, Mr. Goodell, you are now recognized for your
testimony.
STATEMENT OF ROGER GOODELL, COMMISSIONER, NATIONAL FOOTBALL
LEAGUE
Mr. Goodell. Thank you. Good morning, Chairwoman Maloney,
Ranking Member Comer, and members of the Committee.
I am Roger Goodell, commissioner of the National Football
League, and I'm here today to discuss the NFL's efforts to
promote safe and respectful workplaces, including at the
Washington Commanders.
The Commanders are one of 32 NFL clubs, each of which is
managed by its ownership and executives and have their own
workplaces and policies.
Two years ago, the Commanders asked me to recommend
independent counsel to address workplace issues and recommend
changes to improve the workplace culture. We identified several
candidates and the club suggested Beth Wilkinson, a
distinguished former Federal prosecutor.
Approximately six weeks later, the club asked my office to
assume oversight of the Wilkinson firm's work. The Wilkinson
firm conducted a comprehensive review of the workplace at the
club, interviewing more than 150 witnesses.
As a result, we gained a clear understanding of what the
workplace had been at the Commanders, how it had begun to
change, and what further steps were needed to support our
ultimate goal of transforming that workplace to one that is
safe and productive for all of its employees.
Let me start by expressing my gratitude to the men and
women who shared their experiences during the investigation and
to Beth Wilkinson and her team who did their work with the
highest degree of integrity and professionalism. It required
substantial courage for many to relive the painful experience
and tell their individual stories. No one--no one--should
experience workplaces like the one they described, especially
not in the National Football League.
I can say to every victim unequivocally that their
willingness to come forward has contributed to a substantially
improved workplace.
It is clear to me that the workplace in Washington was
unprofessional and unacceptable in numerous respects: bullying,
widespread disrespect toward colleagues, use of demeaning
language, public embarrassment, and harassment. Moreover, for a
prolonged period of time, the Commanders had a woefully
deficient H.R. function, particularly with respect to reporting
practices and recordkeeping.
As a result, we imposed unprecedented discipline on the
club: monetary penalties of well over $10 million and
requirements that the club implement a series of
recommendations and allow an outside firm to conduct regular
reviews of their workplace.
In addition, for the past year, Daniel Snyder has not
attended league or committee meetings and to the best of my
knowledge has not been involved in day-to-day operations at the
Commanders. The cheerleader program has been entirely revamped
and is now a co-ed dance team under new leadership.
And the most recent independent workplace report, which we
have shared with the Committee, confirms that an entirely new,
highly skilled, and diverse management team is in place, and
that there has been, quote, ``substantial transformation of the
team's culture, leadership, and human resources practices,''
end quote.
To be clear, the workplace at the Commanders today bears no
resemblance to the workplace that has been described to this
Committee. We did not receive a written report of Ms.
Wilkinson's findings for compelling reasons that continue to
this day.
A critical element of any workplace review is broad
participation by both current and former employees. Encouraging
employees to come forward and share their experiences, which
were frequently painful and emotional, was essential to
identifying both the organization's failures and how to fix
them. To encourage this participation, Ms. Wilkinson promised
confidentiality to any current or former employee.
For this reason, shortly after we assumed oversight of Ms.
Wilkinson's work, we determined that a comprehensive oral
briefing was best to allow us to receive the information
necessary, both to evaluate the workplace as it was and to
ensure that the team put in place the policies and processes to
reform that workplace, all while preserving the confidentiality
of those who participated in the investigation.
Oral reports are often used by the NFL and other
organizations in conducting internal investigations and for
other issues. If appropriate, we will make public a summary of
the key findings as we did here. We have been open and direct
about the fact that the workplace culture at the Commanders was
not only unprofessional, but toxic for far too long.
I'm aware that some victims, including those who appeared
before this Committee, each of whom was invited to participate
in Beth Wilkinson's investigation, have chosen to share their
experiences publicly, and I fully respect that choice. Many
others made a different choice, and it is my responsibility to
honor the commitment to protect their confidentiality.
I am confident that should there be another investigation
at the NFL or our clubs where similar discretion is desired,
future witnesses will feel comfortable sharing their
experiences, knowing that we do not go back on our word.
When the Committee has asked questions or requested
documents which could violate witness privacy, we have asserted
privilege. We will continue to do so to safeguard our
commitment.
Earlier this year, the Committee heard testimony from
several former employees that included new and direct
allegations against Mr. Snyder. We promptly engaged former U.S.
Attorney Mary Jo White to investigate those allegations.
Because those new allegations were brought to the Committee in
a public setting, we will share the results of that
investigation when it is completed and will take additional
disciplinary action if warranted.
Since the Committee opened its inquiry last October, we
have fully cooperated, producing more than 460,000 pages of
documents, responding to many written questions, engaging in
numerous discussions with Committee staff, and I am appearing
voluntarily today.
We have not allowed the Commanders or its ownership or
counsel to direct or make decisions regarding the work that was
done by the Wilkinson firm, the work currently underway by Mary
Jo White, or this Committee's inquiry.
Finally, I want to address the Committee's review of
nondisclosure agreements. Our policies do not allow a club to
use an NDA to bar someone from participating in a league
investigation, and nobody who wished to speak to the Wilkinson
firm was prevented from doing so by an NDA.
We also believe that people who come forward and want to
maintain their privacy should be allowed to do so. The
assurance that it was safe to participate, and that people
could rely on the promise to protect their privacy allowed us
to do a thorough review and make the necessary changes in the
workplace.
I have been and remain committed to ensuring that all
employees of the NFL and the 32 clubs work in a professional
and supportive environment that is free from discrimination,
harassment, or other forms of illegal or unprofessional
conduct.
Thank you for inviting me today, and I will do my best to
answer your questions.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you for your testimony and for
coming today.
I now recognize myself for five minutes.
Mr. Donalds. Madam Chair, I have a parliamentary inquiry.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman is recognized.
Mr. Donalds. Madam Chair, the U.S. Supreme Court case U.S.
v. Watkins makes clear that Congress' investigative power must
be related to and in the furtherance of a legitimate task of
Congress.
Especially in light of the testimony by Mr. Goodell, how
does continuing this hearing actually relate to a legitimate
task of Congress in the face of record high inflation, record
high gas prices, a completely unsecured border, a fentanyl
crisis that is killing more people between the ages of 18 and
45 than any other cause in the United States, a baby formula
crisis, a tampon crisis?
Madam Chair, the commissioner has just detailed in his own
testimony that the Washington Commanders, Redskins, whatever
you choose to call them, have been held accountable. They've
made necessary reforms to the organization. You got a chair
here for Mr. Snyder who told the Committee he was not going to
be here.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman will suspend.
Mr. Donalds. But, Madam Chair, what is the purpose of
this----
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman will suspend.
Mr. Donalds. What is the purpose of this hearing?
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman will suspend. This is not
about a stated parliamentary inquiry.
Mr. Donalds. That is the parliamentary inquiry, Madam
Chair.
Chairwoman Maloney. And we have----
Mr. Donalds. What is the purpose of this hearing?
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman will suspend.
Mr. Donalds. You can bang the gavel all you want, but I
don't really care.
What is the purpose of continuing this, Madam Chair? That
is the parliamentary inquiry.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman will suspend.
Mr. Donalds. And how does Congress' business actually be
continued----
Chairwoman Maloney. And we have put forward two important
pieces of legislation that the gentleman can cosponsor.
Mr. Donalds. How does Congress' business actually be
continued by continuing this hearing?
Chairwoman Maloney. OK. All right. I now recognize myself
for five minutes for questions.
The NFL's decision not to release the findings of an
investigation into the toxic workplace culture at the
Washington Commanders denied victims and the American people of
a full accounting of what transpired at the team for the past
20 years.
Today the committee released new evidence documenting the
toxic workplace at the Commanders, details that the NFL had not
previously made public. We found that Dan Snyder refused to
discipline coaching staff accused of sexual harassment.
Instead, according to one executive, he tried to, quote, ``make
the problem go away,'' end quote.
We found that Mr. Snyder approved the firing of a
cheerleader for having a relationship with a male team member
but took no action against the male employee.
And we found that Mr. Snyder orchestrated a shadow
investigation, sending private investigators to the homes of
former employees, terrifying them, offering hush money, and
compiling a dossier on his accusers.
Commissioner Goodell, do you think this is acceptable
behavior for the owner of an NFL team? Mr. Goodell?
Mr. Goodell. Chairwoman Maloney, that is exactly why we
took this issue so seriously. It's exactly why we engaged an
independent investigation with Beth Wilkinson and her firm. She
had full access to be able to engage with anyone who chose to
come forward.
Chairwoman Maloney. Reclaiming my time, I have very limited
time. And thank you for appearing and for your testimony.
We don't know how much more information is still out there
because the NFL has refused to make the findings of the
Wilkinson investigation public.
Commissioner Goodell, yes or no, will you commit today to
providing this committee the full findings of the NFL's
internal investigation while protecting the identities of the
confidential witnesses?
Mr. Goodell. We gave a summary report, Madam Chairwoman.
The report was broad in its nature but specific to the fact
that the culture at the Washington football team for too long
was toxic and incorrect. We made a commitment to protect their
identities. We are going to continue to do that and make sure
that we protect that for----
Chairwoman Maloney. Commissioner, reclaiming----
Mr. Goodell [continuing]. Not only this investigation but
also----
Chairwoman Maloney. Commissioner, respectfully, Mr.
Commissioner, reclaiming my time, because we have limited time.
You have claimed you're withholding this information
because you're protecting the privacy of witnesses. But many
victims, even in this room, and witnesses have publicly stated
that they want--they want--this information to be released. And
the NFL has made other investigations public--and I thank you
for that--including the 2014 investigation into the workplace
misconduct at the Miami Dolphins.
Respectfully, Mr. Commissioner, for full accountability, we
must have transparency.
Mr. Snyder, of course, has refused to testify today. We
thank you for making the Dolphins report public. We'd like to
have the Wilkinson report made public. And I'm asking you, what
specific steps will the NFL take to hold Mr. Snyder accountable
for refusing to testify before Congress?
Mr. Goodell. Madam Chairwoman, I do not have responsibility
for whether he appears before Congress. That is not my choice.
That is his choice.
Chairwoman Maloney. OK. Let me stop you right here.
Mr. Snyder has not been held accountable. His refusal to
testify sends a clear message that he is more concerned about
protecting himself than coming clean with the American people.
If the NFL is unwilling or unable to hold Mr. Snyder
accountable, then I am prepared to do so. That is why I am
announcing now my intent to issue a subpoena for the testimony
of Mr. Snyder for a deposition next week. The Committee will
not be deterred in its investigation to uncover the truth of
workplace misconduct at the Washington Commanders.
Finally, I'd like to talk about how we're going to fix this
problem, not just expose it but fix it. Last week, along with
many of my colleagues, we introduced two bills to ensure that
employers like Dan Snyder cannot abuse nondisclosure agreements
to silence employees and cannot film their employees and use
it, use the films without their consent.
Commissioner, do you support the intent of these
legislative reforms?
Mr. Goodell. Yes, Madam Chairman, we've had an opportunity
to be able to see your outline of this legislation. And both
these legislation and concept, we certainly support it, and be
happy to work with your staff.
While I have the microphone, I'd also like to say,
respectfully, that Dan Snyder has been held accountable. As I
mentioned in the opening, he faced unprecedented discipline,
including financial fines, being removed and away from the team
at his request for a period of time, up to the year now
already.
And, second and more importantly, transformation of that
organization that has gone on in the last year, which is really
important to the employees that are there now. And I hope,
because of the individuals that came forward in the context of
this investigation, they helped us make those changes.
And we accepted every one of the workplace recommendations
by Beth Wilkinson. And we think that it's had a dramatic
impact, as you've seen from the independent audit that was done
just before your hearing back in February that indicated a
substantial transformation of the organization, which was our
ultimate objective.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you very much for your testimony.
I want to thank you for your support of the legislation----
Mr. Norman. Madam Chairman?
Chairwoman Maloney.--which we intend to pass and protect
employees not only at the Commanders, but across this Nation.
I yield back----
Mr. Norman. Madam Chairman?
Chairwoman Maloney.--and now recognize Ms. Foxx----
Mr. Norman. Madam Chairman?
Chairwoman Maloney.--for five minutes.
Mr.----
Mr. Norman. Madam Chairman, I have got a parliamentary
inquiry. Following up on what Mr. Donalds raised, by what
authority is this Committee investigating a private business, a
private entity, to hold this hearing? What authority do we
have? Can you cite me that?
Chairwoman Maloney. We have authority to investigate
anything and everything, and we are putting forward
legislation.
Mr. Norman. Anything----
Chairwoman Maloney. Ms. Foxx, you are now recognized.
Mr. Norman. Anything and everything.
Mr. Comer. We'll remember that Madam Chair, in January.
Mr. Norman. That's a total embarrassment.
Chairwoman Maloney. Ms. Foxx, you are now recognized for
five minutes.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Madam Chair. Would you allow--thank
you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Goodell, I am disappointed that this Committee's here
today squandering yet another opportunity to address the many
issues facing our country. We have a chance to do something for
the American people. But just like the Biden administration,
this Committee's sitting on its hands.
Today's hearing is merely a distraction from skyrocketing
inflation, unaffordable groceries, record gas and energy
prices, supply chain issues, and our open southern border.
As we have heard in your testimony, the NFL has submitted
more than 460,000 pages of documents, responded to many
requests, and engaged in numerous discussions with Committee
staff. It seems to me an awful lot of Committee--or, rather,
taxpayer--resources were expended to investigate the Commanders
and the NFL, which are both private organizations that do not
employ government officials and are not in the purview of this
Committee.
Do you believe that this Committee's investigation is a
good use of taxpayer funds?
Mr. Goodell. Is that a question for me?
Ms. Foxx. Yes, sir.
Mr. Goodell. Congresswoman, that is not a determination
that I should be making.
Listen, I understand the importance of your
responsibilities. I can't be the one who would tell you what
you need to be focused on.
But we believe and we understand our responsibility in the
NFL in today's society. We understand that. We do hold
ourselves accountable. We hold ourselves to a high standard.
We believe that we've addressed this issue responsibly,
fairly, by protecting not only the people who came forward to
help us address this, but also making sure that we saw that
transformation in the Washington Commanders organization, which
is really a significant transformation.
Ms. Foxx. Well, to followup on what my colleagues are
saying, this Committee has no jurisdiction over private
entities. Our jurisdiction is on government entities.
So I want to reiterate, I think, what you said. You have no
doubts about the independence of the Wilkinson investigation or
its findings, correct?
Mr. Goodell. I do not.
Ms. Foxx. Do you believe that somehow a congressional
investigation would reach a different or, quote, ``better''
conclusion than the independent investigations conducted on
behalf of the NFL?
Mr. Goodell. I have tremendous regard for Beth Wilkinson
and her team. They were thorough. They were comprehensive.
We've made sure that NDAs did not block access to any of the
people. It was their choice of which to participate. But we had
over 150 people who came forward.
We believe we understand what the environment was at the
Washington Commanders for far too long, and it was
unacceptable, unprofessional, and we dealt with that. And I
think we've now seen a dramatic turnaround in a very short
period of time. I think that will be important for all of us.
Ms. Foxx. Well, I think the allegations against the
Commanders were disturbing and appreciate you've taken them
seriously in your role as commissioner.
You've also worked hard to promote inclusivity,
specifically around women, in the game of football, from fans
to coaches to referees to executives.
Can you tell me more about why that's important and what
the NFL is doing in this space, and particularly talk about the
importance of having women in day-to-day leadership roles, such
as Tanya Snyder's?
Mr. Goodell. Well, Congresswoman, we think diversity is an
important element to our success. It's fundamental to what we
do. We believe that having the best people, diverse people,
including women and people of color, people that can contribute
to the NFL to make us better, that's a foundational issue for
us. And so we have many programs to try to create that.
It's as ongoing effort. It will always be. We will never
reach the goal line, as we say in football. But we do believe
that we have made significant progress, but we're committed to
making more progress. And I think the work that's being done
here has made the NFL better. But I also think hopefully it's
been a shining light for others to see that we have taken on
our issues and made really significant improvement that people
can see.
Ms. Foxx. I thank you for being here today and for
testifying voluntarily.
I yield back, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady yields back.
And before I recognize the gentlewoman from the District of
Columbia, Ms. Norton, I would like to clarify what I said
before.
This Committee has the authority to investigate conduct
within Congress' legislative jurisdiction, and that includes
protecting women in the workplace. And this Committee and my
colleagues and I have already introduced two bills to address
the problems that we saw in our investigation, and I'll be glad
to share them with anyone on the Committee.
Mr. Jordan. Madam Chair, just a question.
Chairwoman Maloney. Do you have a point of order?
Mr. Jordan. No, just a clarification.
Chairwoman Maloney. No. OK. Clarification.
Mr. Jordan. So when you said you had the authority to
investigate anything and everything, you didn't really mean
that?
Chairwoman Maloney. Well, I just clarified what I said.
Reclaiming my time.
Mr. Jordan. No, I mean, it's a simple question.
Chairwoman Maloney. Reclaiming my time.
Mr. Jordan. You didn't mean it when you said----
Chairwoman Maloney. Reclaiming my time.
Mr. Jordan [continuing]. Anything and everything?
Chairwoman Maloney. Reclaiming my time.
Some of my colleagues across the aisle have suggested that
our investigation into workplace misconduct at the NFL is a
waste of time. I strongly disagree. The issue of sexual
harassment is one of the most prominent--in one of the
prominent and respected workplaces in this country and a cover-
up on behalf of a powerful owner should matter to all of us. It
is even more surprising, given that this Committee has
investigated sexual harassment and assault in sports, including
when Republicans were in the majority.
In 2018, under the leadership of then Republican Chairman
Trey Gowdy, the committee launched a bipartisan investigation
into USA Gymnastics' handling of allegations against Larry
Nassar.
In a letter to the President of USA Gymnastics signed by
Chairman Gowdy, then Ranking Member Ms. Foxx--Member Cummings--
also Ms. Foxx and myself, the Committee wrote, and I quote:
``Sexual assault should not be tolerated. But when it does
occur, it is imperative that swift and immediate action be
taken to stop the abuse, prevent it from occurring, and address
its effects,'' end quote.
I would like to enter the letter into the record.
Without objection, so ordered.
Chairwoman Maloney. And we are here today to hold another
sports governing body accountable, because the NFL has failed
the thousands of employees that work for teams across the
country. And that failure has endangered women across the NFL
and sent a powerful message to every workplace that
accountability is optional.
My time has expired. The gentlelady is recognized, Ms.
Norton. And I place the letter in the record.
Ms. Norton. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Goodell, in 2014 the NFL revised its personnel conduct
policy. So I want to discuss a passage of that.
It said, ``Ownership and club or league management have
traditionally been held to a higher standard and will be
subject to more significant discipline when violations of the
personal conduct policy occur.''
Mr. Goodell, can you briefly explain why the league holds
owners to a higher standard of conduct?
Mr. Goodell. Because they're ultimately accountable for
what happens in their organization. They set the standard. And
all of us in the NFL hold ourselves accountable to that.
Ms. Norton. Well said, sir. I completely agree with that.
But Dan Snyder appears--with respect to Dan Snyder, it
appears that did not happen. Before taking over the
investigation, you admitted the NFL was monitoring the internal
investigation. But as the committee investigation, our
Committee's investigation confirmed, in July 2020 allegations
of potential misconduct by Mr. Snyder were known by the
investigators in the matter you were monitoring.
Mr. Goodell, did the NFL know about the 2009 allegations of
sexual misconduct against Mr. Snyder before it took over the
investigation, yes or no?
Mr. Goodell. We did know about the 2009 allegations by July
2001--2000, excuse me--and we made sure that our independent
investigator was aware of those allegations. And she was not
blocked by NDAs. She had the ability to speak to anybody who
was willing to come forward. It was their choice. She did speak
to Mr. Snyder twice. So we were aware of that issue in that
summer.
Ms. Norton. So the NFL was monitoring the so-called
independent investigation, yet it allowed Mr. Snyder to oversee
the investigation of the team and his own conduct for at least
six weeks before stepping in. Isn't that correct?
Mr. Goodell. I'm sorry, Congresswoman. I'm not sure I
followed your questioning there.
Ms. Norton. That the NFL was monitoring the supposed
independent investigation, yet, though you were doing that, the
NFL allowed Mr. Snyder to oversee the investigation of the team
and his own conduct for at least six weeks before stepping in.
Isn't that correct?
Mr. Goodell. Congresswoman, I think I would try to clarify
that--and I said it in my opening statement--is that we were
asked to give recommendations for counsel to be able to look
into the workplace issues. We gave them several candidates.
They selected Beth Wilkinson, which is an excellent choice.
They began that investigation. And within several weeks, it
was no more than six weeks to my recollection, they asked to
have that investigation turned over to the league. We accepted
to do that, but we said there would be no further
investigations by the Washington Football Team at that point,
we would take over this investigation.
And we did with an independent. And she went ahead, and she
made her decisions on how to conduct this investigation
independently. And that's what we expected from her, and she
did an outstanding job on that.
Ms. Norton. I'm glad you did that after that six-week
period.
Mr. Goodell, will you commit today that if any future
allegations against a team owner alleging misconduct arise that
the NFL will conduct an independent investigation, not the team
under inquiry, yes or no?
Mr. Goodell. As part of the personal conduct policy, if
there was an allegation that triggered that, the league would
take over that investigation.
Ms. Norton. Thank you for that, for making that point
clear.
I yield back, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady yields back.
Mr. Comer. Madam Chair, before we go to the next
questioner, I would like to formally request that former NFL
player Burgess Owens be waived on the committee today.
Chairwoman Maloney. Without objection. And welcome.
OK. The gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Jordan, is now recognized.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Commissioner, you believe in the First Amendment, don't
you?
Mr. Goodell. I do.
Mr. Jordan. I mean, all parts of it, all, you know, all
rights we have, your right to practice your faith, your right
to petition the government, right to assemble, freedom of
press, freedom of speech, you believe in all that.
Mr. Goodell. Yes, Congressman.
Mr. Jordan. Why do you ban Dave Portnoy from NFL games?
Mr. Goodell. Pardon me? I couldn't hear your question.
Mr. Jordan. Why do you ban Dave Portnoy from NFL games?
He's a journalist. In fact, he's a sport journalist. Why is he
banned?
Mr. Goodell. Congressman, I'm not familiar with that issue.
I'm happy to check with my staff, but I'm not aware of that.
Mr. Jordan. Really?
Mr. Goodell. Yes.
Mr. Jordan. Well, I think we're all aware of that. I mean,
he interviewed the President of the United States. Interviewed
President Trump in the White House. Seems to me if he can get
into the White House, he should be able to get into a football
game, particularly as a member of the press and a member of the
sports press.
Do you know anything about that?
Mr. Goodell. I don't, sir.
Mr. Jordan. Do you agree with the Washington Redskins'
decision to fine Jack Del Rio $100,000?
Mr. Goodell. That was the decision that was made by Coach
Rivera. Again, as I stated earlier, they are responsible for
monitoring and managing their own workplace. He made that
decision on his own. I did not speak to him. I have great
respect for Coach Rivera. He made his decision for reasons I'm
sure that he thought were important.
Mr. Jordan. But I--I appreciate all--I appreciate all that,
Commissioner. But that's not what I asked you. I said, do you
agree with the Washington Redskins' decision to fine Jack Del
Rio $100,000?
Mr. Goodell. I don't think it's my position to be able to
say whether it was the correct decision or not.
Mr. Jordan. Well, Mr.--Coach Rivera in his statement, when
he fined his assistant coach $100,000, he said Del Rio, quote,
``does have the right to voice his opinion as a citizen of the
United States, and it is most certainly his constitutional
right to do so.''
I don't know if that's actually accurate anymore because,
if you do voice that, you end up getting fined and have to
write a check for $100,000.
Does that concern you?
Mr. Goodell. I, again, have great respect for Coach Rivera.
I presume that he had reasons for doing what he did, and I'm
sure he took a lot of factors into consideration there.
Mr. Jordan. Last year at the start of the season--I'm
looking at The New York Times article, a piece from September
5, 2021--last year, start of the NFL season, you made this
statement. You said, ``We, the National Football League,
encourage all to speak out and peacefully protest.''
Did you really mean that when you said that, Mr. Goodell?
Mr. Goodell. Yes. I think people are always responsible for
what they say and what they do. But yes.
Mr. Jordan. And when you said you encourage all to speak
out, you meant all, not just some.
Mr. Goodell. That's correct, Congressman. But you're
responsible for what you say. There are consequences for what
you do and say in life.
Mr. Jordan. Yes. So, see, I mean, this is the concern I
have. It seems to me the NFL encourages all to speak out,
unless you're Dave Portnoy and not allowed to a game, unless
you're Jack Del Rio, you get fined. That is, I think, the
concern not only I have, but a lot of your fans across this
country have this standard.
Does that concern you at all?
Mr. Goodell. It always concerns me what our fans think and
how they react. But we try to make sure that we're responsible
in all our comments.
Mr. Jordan. Yes, let me just read the tweet from Mr. Del
Rio. It said, ``Would love to understand the whole story about
why the summer of riots, looting, burning, and the destruction
of personal property is never discussed but January 6 is.''
What part of that statement, what part of that tweet
warranted a $100,000 fine?
Mr. Goodell. Again, Congressman, I didn't issue the fine. I
wasn't part of the decisionmaking process. Coach Rivera
obviously had reasons which he believed were substantial to do
that, and I have great respect for him.
Mr. Jordan. Yes, but, I mean, this whole hearing is about
the NFL stepping in when something happened at the Washington
Football Team's organization. And now we had something that
happened in the Washington Football Team's organization, and
you said you had no part of that, you're not going to comment
on it, it's not something that should concern you.
But it seems like it should when an assistant coach issues
a tweet that I think a lot of people--a lot of people would
say, you know what, we condemned, we Republicans condemned the
violence that took place in the summer of 2020 and we condemned
the violence that took place on January 6th. We've been
consistent.
I think that was the point the coach was making. He gets
fined, and you have nothing to say about it.
Mr. Goodell. I am not going to interfere with the workplace
decisions that a club makes on a matter like that. That is not
a--that is not something that rises to the occasion such as the
subject that we're talking about today, when you have a
workplace that is obviously toxic and unacceptable and
unprofessional. That is as much information----
Mr. Jordan. No one supports that, but we do support the
First Amendment. And I understand this is a private
organization. But the chilling impact when speech is curtailed
like this and you get fined for a tweet that you put out, I
think that is a concern to all of us. That's why I raise it in
the Committee hearing today.
Madam Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired. He
yields back.
The gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Connolly, is recognized
for five minutes.
Mr. Connolly. I thank the chair and thank her for
accommodating me today. I will just begin by saying there's a
lot of chutzpah coming from the other side of the aisle. When
the Republican was in the majority under my predecessor, Tom
Davis, when he was chairman, had no problem having hearings on
steroids and baseball, also a sports issue, also a private
entity. But there were no questions about jurisdiction then.
And when it comes to being lectured about the lack of
oversight, I remember four long years in the Trump
administration, not a single Republican voted for a single
subpoena during those four years, and we had no oversight
hearings on our Committee over the Trump administration and its
misdeeds, and God knows that was feral territory. So I'm not
going to be lectured by those folks telling us about our
dereliction of duty and oversight.
Mr. Goodell, do you believe the NFL has held Mr. Snyder and
others accountable for 20 years of misconduct at what is now
called the Commanders?
Mr. Goodell. Yes, I do.
Mr. Connolly. Do you believe you've held him to account?
Mr. Goodell. Yes.
Mr. Connolly. Sufficiently?
Mr. Goodell. Yes. Most importantly, Congressman, I think we
were able to, in addition to the accountability, be able to
effectuate change in the organization that, as I mentioned
before, is a substantial transformation. We----
Mr. Connolly. This substantial----
Mr. Goodell. Part of----
Mr. Connolly. Let's talk about that substantial
transformation. Instead of releasing the Wilkinson report, you
issued a four-page press release. And inter alia, you said in
that four-page press release, ownership and senior management
actually paid little or no attention to these issues documented
in the Wilkinson report; is that correct?
Mr. Goodell. I don't have the release in front of me, but--
--
Mr. Connolly. Well, all right. But the Committee's
investigation has shown that's actually not true. Mr. Snyder
paid lots of attention in ordering executives to fire
cheerleaders who fraternized with players. He told other
executives to keep cheerleaders, quote, ``skinny with big''--
and here he used a pejorative word to describe a part of the
female anatomy--or he said he'd kill them.
He intervened in H.R. decision after H.R. decision
personally, deciding never to punish the favorite coach who
groped lower-level employees, but punished the women in those
cases, not the men, in a very consistent pattern.
We've also now learned that there are at least two sexual
assault allegations about him personally.
Were you aware of that when you issued the statement that
you, you know, he paid little or no attention to these issues?
Is that news to you?
Mr. Goodell. Congressman, as I stated, I think, earlier,
the latest allegation was from your roundtable this February.
So I was not aware of that until that time.
Mr. Connolly. So does that change your mind now that you're
aware of it?
Mr. Goodell. Well, that's why we appointed Mary Jo White to
look into to determine whether the allegation and what the
facts are behind the allegation. We'll release that report when
it's completed, because she brought that up in a public
setting.
Mr. Connolly. Well, you're committing now to release that
report?
Mr. Goodell. Yes, I am, because she brought it up in a
public setting, Congressman. I stated that in my opening.
Mr. Connolly. Oh, so is that distinction you're making
between the Wilkinson report and the White report? One was
brought up in a public setting and the other was not?
Mr. Goodell. Yes.
Mr. Connolly. I don't get it because virtually----
Mr. Goodell. As I said in my opening, I also made the
distinction, it's a very important distinction, is that to get
people to participate, Congressman, we promised them
confidentiality and privacy. And the important thing for us is
to be able to stand behind that, not just for this case with
the Washington Commanders, but----
Mr. Connolly. Commissioner, I've got one minute----
Mr. Goodell. Future cases--people need----
Mr. Connolly. Commissioner, I understand that, but you're
acting as if the victims have not subsequently, in fact, called
for the public release of the report. Virtually every victim
we've met with in our roundtable, in private meetings we've
had--I've got a lot of constituents who are victims of this
culture, all of them have called for the release of the report.
They've even created T-shirts saying, ``release the report.''
So your concern about privacy, while commendable, seems to
have been overtaken by the need for--for the public to
understand what happened and to determine on its own based on
that report, whether that culture unlike what you assert is
continuing.
Mr. Goodell. But Congressman, I would disagree with you
respectfully on many occasions. There are obviously people who
have come out. I mentioned, again, that in my opening
statement. You have had witnesses who came forward, and I
respect them for that choice. But there are also others who
have made a choice not to come forward, not to disclose their
identities, and to request that their identities be kept
private. We think that's fundamental in the concept of trying
to make sure--to the Committee's point here, none of us want
sexual harassment or bad workplaces.
Mr. Connolly. I understand----
Mr. Goodell. We think it's fundamental to have a workplace
that people can come forward and tell of incidents, and they
can be followed up. We also think that----
Mr. Connolly. Commissioner----
Mr. Comer. Madam Chair, his time has expired.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired. Thank
you for your questions, though. Thank you very much.
The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Donalds----
Mr. Connolly. Madam Chair--Madam Chair, can I just make a
point? Last time I checked, you're the chair of the Committee.
It's up to you to decide when my time is up, not Mr. Comer.
Thank you.
Chairwoman Maloney. Your time is up.
The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Donalds, is recognized for
five mines.
Mr. Donalds. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Look, I think it's important in this hearing to clarify a
couple of things. Was the workplace environment at the
Washington Redskins/Commanders abhorrent? The Commissioner has
testified yes, in the previous roundtable, everybody agreed to
that.
Has the organization been held accountable through
financial fines, the distancing of Mr. Snyder from the team for
an extended period of time, and with transformation of team
culture? The answer to all of those is yes as testified by the
Commissioner of the National Football League. It's been brought
up in this hearing that, yes, four years ago when Mr. Gowdy was
chair of this Committee, that we did investigate sexual
harassment associated with U.S.A. Gymnastics. But it's
important to understand the context of those hearings.
The disgusting actions of Dr. Nassar were actually coming
to light at the same time as Congress was holding those
hearings, at the same time as that was moving through the
criminal procedures. So let's understand what we're talking
about here. The workplace environment of the Washington
Redskins at that period of time was abhorrent. Everybody in
this hearing agrees with that.
But have they been held accountable? According to the
Commissioner, yes, they have been held accountable, which goes
back to point that Republicans on this Committee are actually
saying. If you want to bring legislation about this, that's
fine. That's one thing. But if you want to sit a chair in this
middle of this hearing room with Mr. Snyder's name on it
knowing full well that Mr. Snyder told the Committee he was not
going to be able to attend, well, that takes on the elements of
a show hearing.
And if Congress is going to go through the pathway of
conducting show hearings where Members of Congress want to take
their pound of flesh from American citizens regardless of their
stature, what you're going to get is American citizens actually
having less respect for the committees of Congress. We have so
many issues facing us in the United States right now.
Gas prices are through the roof. I was just at the border
for the fourth time last week. I've had four trips to the
border. The President of the United States has never been.
Meanwhile, fentanyl is coming into every community in the
United States. It is killing people in our country between the
ages of 18 and 45. It is the No. 1 cause of death. This
Committee has said nothing about fentanyl to this point. Not
one word. We've not done it here.
So I think if you're going to examine why Republican
Members are frustrated with this hearing, it is not about the
conduct of the Washington Redskins. It's not about that
conduct, because we find that conduct to be distasteful. But
you have to also look at the facts that the National Football
League, which is the entity responsible for the Washington
Redskins, they've gone through that investigation. They've
actually held the team accountable.
So what are we doing now? Are we actually going to ignore
the real-life economic issues that are harming every American
in the United States, whether you happen to be male or female,
whether you happen to be rich or poor, whether you happen to be
black or white, or are we going to continue to do these show
hearings?
Yes, while America struggles in the reality of Joe Biden's
disastrous economic policies today in the United States.
That is the ire--that is the--that is why Members of
Congress on the Republican side of the aisle are so confounded
as to why we've hauled in the Commissioner from the NFL. Look,
I'm going to be fully transparent which y'all. I ain't really
got no love for the NFL, OK? You know, like, I don't really
have much love for the NFL. I love football. I've had my issues
with certain rulings that have come from the NFL.
There's things that, Commissioner Goodell, I don't agree
with your decisions on certain things that you've done in your
tenure, but I'm not going to use my time as a Member of
Congress to grill you on that. That is your business as running
the NFL. If the owners have a problem with you, let the owners
deal with it. Me, personally, I'm a Cowboys fan. So, you know,
if the product on the field of the Washington Commanders is not
good, that's great for me personally. But I'm not going to use
my time as a Member of Congress to grill that organization when
they've already been held accountable by the governing body who
is responsible for them, which is the NFL, which the
Commissioner of the NFL has already testified to today.
So Madam Chair, if you want to understand why Members on
this side of the aisle are frustrated, it's not about holding a
sexual harassment in the workplace accountable. It is not that.
It is about us conducting show trials, which distract us from
the business Congress should be looking at.
And with that, I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back. And I'd like
to remind him that during the hearing with the cheerleaders
earlier, you called for the release of the Wilkinson report,
and I agree with you completely. We're still working to get
that report released. It's a bipartisan effort with your call
for it.
The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Krishnamoorthi, is
recognized for five minutes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Commissioner, for being here today. Sir, I'd
like to turn your attention to this chart I have here to my
right. This chart shows us the length and detail of reports
released after recent NFL investigations.
On the far right is Deflategate, which examined the air
pressure in footballs used by Tom Brady, and following that
inquiry, you released a 243-page detailed report. Next to it is
the Miami Dolphins sexual harassment inquiry, and after that
you released a 148-page detailed report. And next to that bar
is the Ray Rice domestic violence situation, where you released
a 96-page detailed report following that inquiry. Now, with
regard to the Commanders, unfortunately, we received a five-
page press release, sir.
Now, sir, you had mentioned that the reason for the press
release as opposed to a detailed finding as you had in the
other cases was because of privacy concerns; isn't that right?
Mr. Goodell. That was one of the issues, yes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. However, I have this 148-page Miami
Dolphins harassment report that you did, where you have
redacted the names of various individuals out of privacy
concerns. And so, it is possible to release a detailed report,
and at the same time, protect people's privacy, yet you chose
not to do so in this particular case with the Commanders.
Sir, I'd like to turn your attention to 2009. You're aware
that in 2009, Dan Snyder was accused of sexually assaulting an
employee on a private airplane, correct?
Mr. Goodell. Am I aware of that? Yes, I'm aware of that
allegation.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And sir, Mr. Snyder settled those
claims for $1.6 million, but he did not inform you in 2009 that
he'd been accused of sexual assault, correct?
Mr. Goodell. I don't recall him informing of that, no.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And failing to report such an incident
under the League's personal conduct policy would be a violation
of that policy, right?
Mr. Goodell. It's an element of the policy that they're
supposed to report incidents that would violate the policy,
yes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And, moreover, the policy requires that
the NFL handle all inquiries into sexual assault allegations,
not the team. However, in this particular case, the Commanders,
themselves, handled the inquiry, so that's yet another
violation of the personal conduct policy; isn't that right?
Mr. Goodell. Well, Mr. Chairman, this is something that--
our personal conduct policy has gone through changes over the
last--I would say the last 15 years, of significant changes, to
take care and address issues that we see need clarifications.
And clearly, we made significant changes in 2014 with our
personal conduct policy because we believe it needed to have--
--
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. But the NFL is supposed to be in charge
of the investigation, right?
Mr. Goodell. Today, that is absolutely correct. Yes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And if the sexual assault allegations
are substantiated, that assault would obviously be a violation
of personal conduct policy as well, because sexual assault is a
violation of the personal conduct policy in the NFL, right?
Mr. Goodell. Yes. Absolutely.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Now, let me direct your attention to
the case of Tiffany Johnson. She came before us and testified
before me at the February roundtable and answered my questions,
basically alleging that Mr. Snyder intentionally touched her in
a sexual manner against her will during a work dinner, and that
is why you hired Mary Jo White to investigate those
allegations, correct?
Mr. Goodell. That is correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And as you sit here today, you don't
have personally--personally, any knowledge of evidence that
would dispute her allegations as you sit here today?
Mr. Goodell. That's an ongoing investigation that's being
handled by Mary Jo White. She's very capable of doing that.
She'll report back to me when she's completed the
investigation, and we've made it clear----
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And if it is substantiated--if it's
substantiated, Ms. Johnson's sexual battery claim would
certainly warrant further disciplinary action, correct?
Mr. Goodell. It's an ongoing investigation. So it would be
inappropriate for me to comment on that. But we said before
that we would consider discipline if the results of the
investigation warrant it.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. So let me ask you this: You called the
Commanders' workplace not only unprofessional, but toxic for
too long.
Sir, in your view, is Dan Snyder's behavior in the
workplace culture he created and fostered one of the worst and
most toxic you've seen in your time as Commissioner and your
decades of service in the NFL?
Mr. Goodell. I have not seen a workplace in the NFL that is
anywhere near what we saw in the context of that period of time
for the Washington Commanders.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Sir, with all the challenges we have
going on as a country, why is it important that we still put an
end to sexual harassment and a toxic work environment at the
Washington Commanders?
Mr. Goodell. Well, I think we have----
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman may answer, but the
gentleman's time has expired. You may answer, but his time has
expired.
Yes, Mr. Goodell. Go ahead.
Mr. Goodell. I think we have made those changes and as I've
said, it's verified by independent auditors that the changes
have been made and the organization will continue to do that.
But I don't think any of us want to have workplaces that are
not safe, not allow all of our employees to feel safe and to be
productive without harassment or without discrimination or any
other issues that would be negative in a professional
workplace.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
The gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Comer, you are now
recognized for five minutes.
Mr. Comer. Thank you, Madam Chair. Before I begin my
questions for Mr. Goodell, I'm going to have to correct the
record once again for Mr. Connolly. This is becoming a habit. I
believe, Madam Chair, he's hanging out with Adam Schiff too
much here lately. He just keeps making things up.
In 2017, when the Republicans were in control of this
Committee, we had 112 Trump administration witnesses testify.
In 2018, Republicans still in control of this Committee, we had
59 administration witnesses. That was during the tenure of
Chaffetz and Gowdy. In 2019, when the Democrats retook the
majority, you had 80 Trump administration witnesses testify.
This year, now that Biden's President, you've had only 36 low-
level career civil servants testify and no Cabinet Secretary.
So I wanted to correct the record of what Mr. Connolly said.
That was completely false.
Commissioner Goodell, when did you learn this Committee was
investigating the Washington Commanders?
Mr. Goodell. I'm sorry. What--I'm sorry, Ranking Member?
Mr. Comer. When did you learn this Committee was
investigating the Washington Commanders?
Mr. Goodell. I believe it as late October of last year,
1921.
Mr. Comer. Were you surprised?
Mr. Goodell. Yes.
Mr. Comer. Why?
Mr. Goodell. Because I thought we had handled this
situation in a way that was responsible for a workplace. We
had, as I said, implemented unprecedented discipline. We had
made the changes to transform the workplace. So it was----
Mr. Comer. One reason--Let me get this straight, one reason
you were surprised was because the NFL took action and held the
bad actors accountable. And another reason would probably be
because Congress really has no jurisdiction over the day-to-day
operations of the NFL.
The committee Democrats asked the NFL to produce documents,
correct?
Mr. Goodell. Yes.
Mr. Comer. A lot of documents, right?
Mr. Goodell. I think we're over 460,000.
Mr. Comer. 450,000. Nearly half a million documents.
Mr. Goodell. 60.
Mr. Comer. Would it surprise you, Mr. Goodell, that
committee Democrats haven't sent a single document request to
the Biden administration about the infant formula shortage, but
they've requested half a million documents from the NFL?
Does that surprise you?
Mr. Goodell. I'm not sure I have a point of view on that
one. I was only focusing on what the NFL was requesting.
Mr. Comer. The Democrats haven't even--just make this
point, sir, the Democrats haven't even sent document requests
to the Biden administration about the botched withdrawal from
Afghanistan, or the COVID origination or the impacts of school
closures on kids, or what they're doing about illegal
immigrants and fentanyl streaming across the southern border,
about skyrocketing inflation, energy prices, not one request on
these problems. I think that's what the people in my district
in Kentucky care about. I'm pretty sure that's what most people
in America care about.
But Commissioner, you had Beth Wilkinson conduct an
investigation in the workplace conduct of the Washington
Commanders. And Mary Jo White's in the midst of a related one.
You've already stated that.
And you've also stated the Commanders have made dramatic
improvements at its organization; is that correct?
Mr. Goodell. Yes.
Mr. Comer. So why are we here?
Why do you think we're here today?
Because that's what a lot of the people on my side of the
aisle, Republican Members, minority Members, you know, why are
we here?
Why do you think we're here, sir?
Mr. Goodell. Ranking Member, I was given an invitation, and
I felt it appropriate to show up when Congress asked me to show
up. And I believe that this matter was handled appropriately,
and I wanted to make sure I stated our point on that.
Mr. Comer. And you believe--let me get this right, you
believe that Dan Snyder has been held accountable for a past
toxic work environment, but the NFL continues to go in and
monitor the situation.
And how would you describe the current situation of the
work environment in the Redskins or Commanders Football
Program? How are things today in the NFL's view?
Mr. Goodell. Well, Ranking Member, it's not just the NFL
going in. More importantly, it's an independent organization,
Vestry Laight, that is auditing, goes in, and is meeting with
employees, going through processes, checking with HR. Again, we
had very woeful H.R. processes for too long in that
organization. They've been implemented into the organization
now. It is actually a very professionally run organization from
an H.R. standpoint.
I think employees from reports that I've seen in this, that
you also have a copy of, employees feel comfortable with the
environment in the workplace. They see a dramatic change. And I
think that the changes that the Commanders have made, including
implementing new executive leadership from President Jason
Wright to Coach Rivera, I think you see a dramatic change in
the organization.
And Dan Snyder made those--I understand Dan Snyder made
those changes. But I also believe that Beth Wilkinson's
recommendations to the workplace, the 10 recommendations she
made, were very important to implement. And that's why we have
ongoing oversight to that to make sure that that continues,
which I think is the most important objective when we began
this, is not just the accountability, but really to make sure
that we change the direction of this workplace, and make sure
that it was safe for our employees.
Mr. Comer. Very good.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired. Thank
you.
The gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Raskin, is recognized for
five minutes.
Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Madam Chair.
After The Washington Post expose of decades of sexual
harassment in the team, Dan Snyder announced he'd be conducting
an independent investigation into the toxic workplace culture.
But then when allegations surfaced implicating Mr. Snyder
himself, the NFL said it was taking over the investigation. So
far so good.
But then in September 2020, Mr. Goodell, you entered into a
secret common interest agreement with Dan Snyder's team to
share information about the investigation, which included an
investigation into his own conduct, but you never told the
women who were participating in interviews with Ms. Wilkinson
that there was this secret agreement to share information. So
now Mr. Snyder got access to these interviews.
How is that protecting the privacy and confidentiality of
the women, which you've asserted is your key value here?
Mr. Goodell. Well, the common interest agreement--and I'm
not an attorney--is a legal document that helps us transfer the
Commanders' investigation to the League investigation. It is an
agreement that did not prevent us from sharing information.
Mr. Raskin. No. It guaranteed that you would share
information, right?
Mr. Goodell. No. It allowed us to make sure that we could
continue the investigation with Beth Wilkinson so that she
would not have to go back and have to meet with some of the
people she'd already met as witnesses and have to go through
that entire process again.
Mr. Raskin. OK. But let me----
Mr. Goodell. Nothing--nothing in that common interest
agreement--and by the way, I'll just point out too that common
interest agreement was entered into just a couple of weeks
after we took over the investigation when it was clear--well,
before it was clear that this Committee was even focused on
this issue.
Mr. Raskin. Right. This Committee has nothing to do with
it. The point is, that Mr. Snyder had access to all of the
interviews of the women whose confidentiality interest you're
now purporting to assert.
I'm puzzled by this, too: Why would you pay hundreds of
thousands or millions of dollars to investigate sexual
harassment in a toxic workplace environment, but then publish
no written report about it?
You had a 243-page written report on Deflategate, as my
colleague from Illinois pointed out, and you had another
published report about sexual harassment with the Miami
Dolphins where the names were redacted where people felt there
was a confidentiality problem.
Why wasn't redaction sufficient to protect the anonymity of
the women who were involved in the case of the Washington team?
Mr. Goodell. Congressman, if I may, I just want to, I
think, clarify something. To my knowledge, and my understanding
is Dan Snyder did not have access to those interviews that Beth
Wilkinson had done, even while the team was overseeing that----
Mr. Raskin. So you're saying--he's never seen those
interviews you're saying?
Mr. Goodell. Not to my knowledge, and I don't believe so.
Mr. Raskin. OK. Why wasn't redaction sufficient to protect
the anonymity of the women being interviewed in the case of the
Washington team when it was sufficient in the case of the
Dolphins?
Mr. Goodell. In the case of the Dolphins, my recollection
was no one had asked for any confidentiality. Not only in the
Washington matter----
Mr. Raskin. They did because. Your names were redacted.
Please.
Mr. Goodell. Not only in Washington did they ask for
confidentiality in many cases, we also promised them
confidentiality to make sure----
Mr. Raskin. That's what redaction is for. OK. That's what
redaction is.
Mr. Goodell. Redaction--Congressman, with all due respect
redaction doesn't always work in my world. I promise you. We
needed to take extra steps to make sure these people who did
come through and courageously come forward----
Mr. Raskin. All right. I've got to reclaim my time here
because I've got another question for you.
Between August 2020 and April 21 while the
Wilkinson investigation was taking place, Dan Snyder conducted
a parallel investigation of the women who spoke out, and he
filed 10 lawsuits in seven states around the country in an
effort to expose and undermine those women who had allegedly
participated in The Washington Post series.
One Federal judge described Snyder's legal actions as
quote, ``an effort to burden and harass individuals formally
associated with the team who may have acted as sources for The
Washington Post, adding that the subpoenas that he issued were,
quote, being done for what the court perceives is an improper
purpose, to discover the sources for the embarrassing and
damning The Washington Post story.''
So did you do anything to try to stop Dan Snyder from
harassing these women in court after they'd been sexually
harassed, and do you condemn this action by Mr. Snyder?
Mr. Goodell. I think any action that would discourage
people from coming forward would be inappropriate and
absolutely wrong. In fact, when we took over the investigation,
we told the Washington Commanders that they were not to do any
investigations. By April 1921, I think is the date you gave me,
my recollection from your question, we were in the final
stages. And Beth had probably met with most of the men and
women that wanted to come forward. We were getting close to
concluding our investigation or Beth's investigation.
Mr. Raskin. So you condemned that form of illegal
harassment against the women who came forward?
Mr. Comer. The chair's time----
Mr. Goodell. As I said, any kind of harassment against
people who want to come forward and tell the truth, we would
not permit, and we would not find acceptable.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired.
The gentleman, you are allowed to respond to his question.
OK. We now recognize from Texas, Mr. Fallon. The gentleman
from Texas.
Mr. Fallon. Commissioner, thank you. I want to be frank
with you, I'm angry and I'm concerned. Last week marked the
50th anniversary of Watergate, which was a scandal that led to
a series of felony convictions and the first resignation of a
United States President, that tore at the very fabric of
American society. In a scant 7-1/2 years ago, another scandal
rocked our Nation, threatening the very core and foundation of
our republic, that being, of course, Deflategate, where in an
AFC championship game, the NFL footballs, the pigskins, the
rock, the pill, the hen egg, the melon and the leather was
mysteriously under-inflated by two PSI, pounds per square inch.
This led to a multifaceted investigation, months long,
thousands of dollars spent, where the GOAT, Mr. California
cool, the real slim Brady, the master of the tuck, the lord of
the rings, Tom Terrific, Tom Brady was suspended by the League.
Mr. Commissioner, I'm sure you're aware that many in New
England worship Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, Jr., as a demigod
of sorts, and being a New England native myself, I don't blame
them one bit. So my point here, sir, is that this country
simply can't afford another scandal, particularly a preventable
one. So I'm surprised in reviewing the League rules to prepare
for this hearing, this critical hearing, we uncovered that the
NFL requires footballs today to be inflated to a gage pressure
of between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI, and the rules don't state and
specify the temperature at which these measurements are to be
made. And the pressure temperature law states that there is a
positive correlation between the temperature and the pressure
of a gas when there's a fixed volume and mass.
So how can we, Commissioner, guarantee the consistency of
the PSI levels of footballs moving forward?
Mr. Goodell. Well, Congressman, it's been quite a while
since I focused on this issue, but I'll tell you, our
procedures now are that our game officials make that check
prior to the game. And so, they are the ones to do that
individually, and then the balls are under protected order from
that point on. They are not allowed to be tampered with from
that point on. So I think, hopefully, we found that
consistency, and make sure that the rules apply to everyone,
and that they're applied equally.
Mr. Fallon. Commissioner, are you currently in New York
City?
Mr. Goodell. Yes, I am.
Mr. Fallon. All right. So you're at sea level, and we're
here in Washington, DC. at sea level.
So, sir, what do we do in Denver at Mile High Stadium,
5,280 feet high above sea level, and how do we account for the
variances that could and do occur when there's differing
atmospheric pressures vis-`-vis the PSI and your balls?
Mr. Goodell. Well, Congressman, it's one of the reasons
why--and several of your colleagues have mentioned, that we had
a lengthy report following Deflategate. And the reason why is
because we had several studies that went 50 pages or more
talking about these exact issues. I can't recite exactly what
they were at this point in time. But they considered altitude.
They considered temperature. They considered all those issues
in the variants. That's why that report was so lengthy is
because we wanted to put those procedures out, as well as the
research that went into that.
Mr. Fallon. Well, Mr. Commissioner, I'd like to offer my
sincere apologies, because this hearing, as I said earlier, I'm
angry and upset because this hearing is a sham, and it's a
farce, and it's a clown show. And it's a terrible waste of your
time as a CEO of a multibillion dollar privately held
enterprise. It's a waste of this Committee's time. And worst of
all, it's a waste of American taxpayers' time. We're here
suffering inflation at a 41-year high, 8.6 percent; gasoline at
$5 a gallon, highest it's ever been in our history.
We have a southern border wide open, more porous than in
250 years, and the drug cartels are making record profits, and
this unchecked narcotics trafficking has fueled an opioid
crisis, which is directly responsible for the deaths of 100,000
Americans. That's why I mentioned I was angry, and I'm upset.
And we're here harassing the NFL, and I might add, engaging in
a partisan bizarre witch hunt of an NFL team and trespassing
without just cause into the internal affairs of a privately
held entity when we face these other crises on multiple fronts.
Quite frankly, it's disgusting. It's a disgrace.
And Madam Chair, we can and must do better. I yield back.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi.
[Presiding.] Thank you, Mr. Fallon. And we're going to have
the ONDCP director next Monday, so you can direct those
questions about the drug trade to him.
We are going to now call on Mr. Khanna for his five minutes
of questions.
Mr. Khanna. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you also to you,
Representative Krishnamoorthi, Chairman Krishnamoorthi, for
your leadership on these issues. I know you've been advocating
and leading on these issues for a number of years just to have
basic equality in all our workplaces.
Chairman Goodell, I'm a, of course, 49ers fan. I represent
Silicon Valley, and I'm a fan not of just the team on the
field, but I'm sure you know Hannah Gordon there who's a senior
executive, and she has participated on a number of panels
actually in Silicon Valley about creating a workplace that
empowers women, about making sure that women have equal pay,
about tackling issues of childcare, about tackling issues of
discrimination, and she's, I think, extraordinary. She's really
helped shape the culture of the 49ers.
So my question for you is, do you look at clubs like the
49ers and extraordinary leaders like Hannah Gordon in seeing
what best practices may be for all the clubs in the League?
Mr. Goodell. We absolutely do. Hannah Gordon was a former
employee of ours. She is outstanding. She's a true
professional. She made a difference here in our organization,
and she's doing that again with the 49ers. I have nothing but
respect for her.
But as part of the changes that happened over the last
several years is an elevation, I would call it, of sharing of
best practices amongst all our clubs from this office, as well
as the 32 clubs. As we stated earlier, they all have their own
work forces and workplaces. Those are their prerogative, but we
do believe that understanding and sharing is an important
element to making sure we have better workplaces.
We also, at the league level, have had many times where we
require certain training mechanisms. Some of that came out of
2014 with respect to domestic violence and sexual assault. All
personnel are required to go through annual training. In
addition, we made sure that sexual harassment is a requirement
of all personnel in the NFL, that includes clubs, leagues,
owners, commissioners, so that we can do everything we possibly
can to make sure that our work forces and workplaces are safe,
and people have a full understanding of what's expected of
them.
Mr. Khanna. I appreciate that, and I hope you'll look not
just to Hannah Gordon and the leadership on issues of gender
and equity, but the 49ers in my district have provided STEM
education for people left out.
I guess my point, Chairman Goodell, is I know people
focused on the legal issues, but you know this better than I
do, that if you look at the top three or four shows that the
American public watch, I was shocked when I realized this; it's
Sunday Night Football, Monday Night Football, Thursday Night
Football. NCIS is the only one that competes.
And I think you would agree that given the cultural
significance of the NFL, and I grew up as a football fan, many
of us in Congress are football fans. I think there's a higher
bar where what you do really matters to shaping the culture of
the Nation. And I guess my request and my plea to you would be
to realize that responsibility. Obviously, on issues of gender,
of issues of equality, of issues of helping get young people
involved in the STEM and education, and just realize that, you
know, you have a huge platform and make a big difference to the
culture of the country.
And that's, I think, spirit of these hearings as opposed to
some legalistic dispute is just what can you do with the
platform you have?
Mr. Goodell. Congressman, I could not agree with you more.
We take that responsibility seriously. We understand the impact
we have in our communities, as well as nationally and even
globally. And that's why we have worked hard to try to meet
that standard. We're not perfect, but we work hard whenever we
see something that we can improve on. We dig in, and we do our
best to make sure that we're a leading voice and something--an
institution that people can look to to say, they're doing
things the right way.
I appreciate your comments. It's well beyond gender. To
your point, it's diversity in general. It's making sure that we
do everything in our communities, including making sure that
our communities are addressing the difficult issues that some
of you have talked about today and making sure that our teams
are playing an active force in some of that, whether it's our
work on how do we get people to vote. Our clubs are actively
using their facilities, they're actively using their platform
of which to encourage people to get out and vote.
Mr. Khanna. I appreciate that. Thank you for your time.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you, Mr. Khanna.
Now, I'm going to be calling on Mr. Grothman for his five
minutes.
Mr. Grothman. Thank you. As was just pointed out, Mr.
Goodell, you have attracted tens of millions of dollars from
Americans who watch your games every week. You've got a large,
captive audience.
Would you agree the NFL has a tremendous amount of power
and ability to influence American culture?
Mr. Goodell. Yes, Congressman, I think I just made that
point. I agree with you.
Mr. Grothman. I'm a little bit troubled by your embracement
of what I'll call left woke anti-American propaganda way
exaggerating any amount of racism in America. Under your
leadership, the NFL has perpetuated the narrative that
America's a racist country, including the myth of systemic
racism in policing. You've committed hundreds of millions of
dollars to, quote, ``fight racism in America.'' You've kind of
promoted the Black Lives Matter movement. And, of course, the
heads of that movement were Marxist. They're kind of
antifamily. I realize it's a diffuse organization, and not
everybody believes in that. But nevertheless, the founders
believed in that.
The NFL is committed to leveraging the NFL Network with its
other media properties to place increased emphasis on raising
awareness and promoting education and social justice issues of
our fans. That's what you say.
Mr. Goodell, studies show that when you control for crime
rates, there is no systemic racism in policing. Mr. Goodell,
could you use your opportunity to raise awareness among your
fans about the fact that study after study shows that when
controlling for variables such as crime rates, there is no
significant relationship between a person's race and whether or
not they'll be arrested or shot at by police?
Do you think you could use your power to get that out there
given what you've done in the past?
Mr. Goodell. Congressman, first I make no apologies for
fighting racism. We believe strongly that there's no place for
racism and hatred in our society.
Mr. Grothman. That's not the point.
Mr. Goodell. I also--well, I'm just trying to clarify a
point that I heard in your question.
The second point to it is, we have an incredibly strong
relationship with law enforcement. We are supportive of the
work that they do. We understand the difficult job that they
have, and the dangerous job they have. But we all want great
policing. We want to make sure that the police are properly
resourced and properly equipped. But more importantly, our work
has been focused on how do we develop better relationships
between the law enforcement and the communities.
And personally, I've gone into some of those communities
with law enforcement and done what we call ride-alongs. And in
that context, you understand the gap that we have to fill
between what law enforcement is faced with, how they do their
jobs, and what the community expects from them. And I think
more communication, more work to try to improve that
relationship is not only going to improve policing, but I think
it's going to improve our societies in general and our
communities.
Mr. Grothman. Mr. Goodell, study after study shows there is
not system racism in our police departments. There is narrative
out there, for example, who, to this day, mislead the public as
to what happened in Ferguson. The Black Lives Matter movement
fanned the flames out there even though Barack Obama's own
Justice Department found that shooting was justified. And you
have kind of piled on with the narrative that we have a
fundamental problem.
Will you do what you can to use your mouthpiece given the
damage I think you've created in the past to straight the
records--straighten out the record with regard to racism in our
police departments?
Mr. Goodell. Congressman, with all due respect, I think,
again, we've been incredibly supportive of law enforcement, and
we'll continue that. So----
Mr. Grothman. OK. I'll give you another question.
This is on the internet. You never know what you can
believe on the internet. I look on the internet, and we see
that you're making about $64 million a year, not as an owner,
not as somebody who is taking personal risk, not somebody who
has to block or tackle or risk your body. To a certain extent,
the NFL is profitable because they shake down cities, tell them
you're going to--we're going to leave your city unless you
build a big--you know, hundreds of millions of dollars a
stadium.
Do you think it's appropriate given the monopoly the NFL
has that you have no personal risk, either physical risk or
financial risk, in your job, could you comment on that $64
million salary?
Mr. Goodell. Congressman, I started as an intern nearly 40
years ago in the NFL, and I am very fortunate to have made a
career at being at the NFL. It's an organization I'm proud of.
I'm happy to have opportunities I've had, and people have
mentored me and given me those opportunities. My compensation
is something that is determined with discretion from the
ownership. They make that determination. I am very fortunate to
be here in this job. I'm proud of it. And I wish I could say
anything more to you that would make you more comfortable, but
those are determinations that are made by the ownership.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you for the questions, Mr.
Grothman.
One thing I just wanted to clarify, the Commissioner said
that the difference between releasing the Miami Dolphins report
and the Wilkinson investigation is that witnesses in the Miami
Dolphins case did not request their identities to remain
confidential. That is not correct.
According to page 54 of the Dolphins report, it says
witnesses, quote, ``specifically asked that their identities
remain confidential. A few even seemed to fear potential
retaliation for cooperating with our inquiry, and we honored
their request,'' closed quote.
I'd now like to recognize the gentlewoman from Ohio, Ms.
Brown, for her questions.
Ms. Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I appreciate this
committee holding this hearing.
Commissioner Goodell, you've repeatedly touted that the NFL
should be held to a high standard, and I applaud you for that.
You have also assured us that when the NFL took over the
investigation of the Commanders, it was to, quote, ``provide
greater public assurance of the integrity and independence of
this investigation.'' And yet, it's been reported eight days
after the NFL assumed oversight of the Wilkinson investigation,
assigned--it signed an agreement with the Commanders--a secret
agreement is how some might call it, but the agreement gave Dan
Snyder and the Commanders the right to veto the release
information or communication shared with the Wilkinson
investigation.
So my question, yes or no, Mr. Goodell: Is it true that the
Commanders blocked the NFL from turning over 40,000 documents
from the internal investigation to this Committee in response
to its October 2021 request?
Mr. Goodell. Congressman--Congresswoman, sorry, this was a
legal agreement that allowed the transfer of the--the
investigation that was begun under the Washington Commanders'
authority and was transferred to the NFL. I'm not a lawyer, but
I fully understand from our people--my understanding is that it
did not prevent us from sharing any information.
Ms. Brown. Just reclaiming my time. Is that a yes or no,
Mr. Goodell? I'm sorry.
Mr. Goodell. The answer to my question it's neither. I'm
trying to bring clarity to the question.
Ms. Brown. I'm going to respectfully reclaim my time. The
NFL--it's also been reported that the NFL stood by while Mr.
Snyder ran a shadow investigation, deploying private
investigators to the homes of his accusers in an effort to
intimidate them while he offered them hush money to buy their
silence.
Mr. Goodell, did you or anyone from the NFL tell Mr. Snyder
or his attorneys to stop using private investigators, yes or
no, please?
Mr. Goodell. As soon as we took over the investigation, we
made it clear to them that they should not be investigating any
of these matters. Second, we asked that the Commanders reach
out to current employees, as well as former employees, to
encourage them to participate. So any efforts to intimidate
witnesses or prevent them from doing it would be inconsistent
with that.
Ms. Brown. What about the subpoenaing of private emails and
phone records from former employees about confidential
communications with The Washington Post regarding the
Commanders' toxic workplace?
Can you tell me about that?
Mr. Goodell. I'm not sure I understand your question,
Congresswoman.
Ms. Brown. Did you ask for that to cease, or was there any
engagement from you to stop that usage?
Mr. Goodell. For what to cease? I'm sorry.
Ms. Brown. The subpoenaing of private emails and phone
records from former employees about confidential communications
with The Washington Post regarding the Commanders' toxic
workplace?
Mr. Goodell. I'm not clear on what that is. I'm happy to
followup with our staff and our attorneys to make sure we get
you an answer, but I'm not familiar with that.
Ms. Brown. OK. All right.
Well, after hearing some of the questions that have been
put forth and your responses, it seems to me that the NFL
picked a side in this investigation, which silenced the voices
of employees and allowed Mr. Snyder to pedal his own version of
the facts. And I think it's been stated here while I, again,
applaud the efforts and the steps that you have taken to
reverse course, I associate myself with the comments of my
colleague, Mr. Ro Khanna, we can and we must do better.
We should not allow the owners to decide what information
is made public, and we should not allow them to silence their
employees with nondisclosure agreements that conceal workplace
misconduct. So it is my hope and my belief that this Committee
must act to pass meaningful legislation that will protect the
workers in the League and around the country.
And so with all sincerity, I thank you for coming forward
and taking the time to answer this Committee's questions, and
hope that you will continue to take the steps to lead the
Nation as an example of what it takes to have a productive,
quality, safe, workplace. Thank you so much.
And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. [Presiding.] Thank you.
The gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Keller, is recognized
for five minutes.
Mr. Keller. Thank you Madam Chair and Ranking Member Comer.
This Committee had a joint roundtable last February, and
the subject came up. And my position on this is the same, and
that is, there no excuse for abusive behavior or harassment in
any work environment. In any instances of such behavior, they
should be fully investigated and violators held accountable.
But as I also pointed out in February, this Committee has
been tasked with investigating waste, fraud, and abuse of
taxpayer dollars and ensuring government agencies are operating
properly. The fact that we are not discussing historically high
inflation prompting the highest fed rate hike since 1994, a
nationwide gas average topping $5 a gallon, or the fentanyl
crisis exacerbated by disastrous open-border policies is
unacceptable.
Instead, we are now conducting congressional oversight over
a private organization already undergoing an investigation.
Madam Chair, this Committee must refocus efforts on the most
pressing issues affecting the American people, not duplicative
ongoing efforts to investigate misconduct.
My question, Mr. Goodell, what steps has the NFL taken to
promote safe, working environment for its employees?
Mr. Goodell. We've made a number of steps going back
several years. One, and I mentioned some of this, but annual
training that's required across all personnel, from clubs to
league officials, to employees, including players, owners,
commissioners. We've had sexual harassment training also. We
continue to do that on an annual basis, which is also required.
So we continue to put this front and center. I've had several
conversations with our clubs about the importance of
maintaining professional workplaces, that it's their
responsibility.
So, I think the steps that have been made clearly have had
an impact. But again, we're not perfect. But we want to make
sure that our employees feel safe, and they have a place where
if they have--I should have mentioned one other thing--is
mandatory hotlines. We, at the League, have had a mandatory
hotline for people to confidentially raise any issues they
think are important, and we also have required that of all our
32 clubs. So I think steps to make it easier for people to
report, if there are violations or alleged violations, and most
importantly, for us to followup responsibility, have been
welcomed and needed, and are the important steps that need to
be taken to keep our workplace safe and productive.
Mr. Keller. OK. The Commanders are required to submit
semiannual reporting assessments to the NFL through July 31 of
2023.
What sort of metrics does the team report, and do these
metrics provide an accurate picture of the Commanders'
workplace culture?
Mr. Goodell. They actually don't give it to us. It's put in
a report. It's actually gathered by an independent firm, Vestry
Laight. They go in. They meet with employees. They meet with
the executives, as well as HR, and anybody they wish. They have
full access. The report that we saw in February that was shared
with all of you indicated a substantial transformation of the
organization. Many of those that were in the organization said
that it's a major change and a positive change, and something
where they feel that they're in an organization that they're
proud of and they think that the policies that have been
implemented by the Commanders and the executives all way up to
the ownership are productive and helpful.
Mr. Keller. So they're doing everything that's been put in
place by the NFL to create a culture that would be an
acceptable workplace environment?
Mr. Goodell. Yes.
Mr. Keller. They're meeting----
Mr. Goodell. They're clearly--I'm sorry.
Mr. Keller. They're meeting their goals, I guess is my
question, in the things that they've been asked to do?
Mr. Goodell. I think this work is something that is you
never achieve the goal line. I think you have to continue to
work on this, but I think the steps that have been taken, the
recommendations made by Beth Wilkinson that were implemented by
the Commanders, the executives and the ownership have taken
this seriously and made significant changes to their
organization. There will be more work to do. We all have more
work to do.
Mr. Keller. Yes. But I guess the point is, everything
they've been asked to comply with, they've been complying with,
as they should----
Mr. Goodell. That is correct.
Mr. Keller. That is correct. The Commanders have been fined
$10 million following the initial investigation into the matter
last year among other penalties.
If the Commanders have been meeting the required outcomes
of what the NFL has put forth--and you say of course there's
always training and things that we need to do. But they're made
this progress and been doing the things that the other
organizations have been doing, quite frankly, why do we need to
have you here to today?
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired.
The gentleman may answer the question.
Mr. Goodell. As I said, Congressman, I was invited. I think
I wanted the opportunity to say that we really have made
significant changes to the Commanders' organization. They
have--and I think it's an important lesson and instructive in
the sense of making sure that we have participation of the
employees in identifying what the culture is, identifying the
efforts and making sure independent people look at that and
make recommendations and those recommendations are implemented
through organizations so that they can get better.
Chairwoman Maloney. Gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Keller. The NFL's going to continue doing that. And I'm
glad they are. I'm glad you're doing those things in the NFL,
so people have a safe place to work. I think now the Committee
can focus on things they should be focused on to help the
American people----
Mr. Johnson. Madam Chair.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Johnson from Georgia is recognized. Mr. Johnson from
Georgia.
Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I would implore my
colleagues on the other side of the aisle to have respect for
the chair and to cease and desist conversation when that gavel
comes down.
Mr. Goodell, credible, numerous and serious allegations of
sexual misconduct have been made against the Washington
Commanders and owner Dan Snyder, who also stands accused of
maintaining a toxic work environment that victimizes female
employees of the organizations. It should be noted that Mr.
Snyder turned down an invitation to appear before this
Committee, and I thank you for agreeing to appear before us
today. And you do so because you understand that Congress has
granted the NFL an exception from the antitrust laws, which
enables NFL teams to collaborate on TV contracts. And the NFL
does not want Congress to tamper with that antitrust exemption,
am I correct, Mr. Goodell?
Mr. Goodell. Well, we do--I'm here because I feel it's our
responsibility to do that and----
Mr. Johnson. You would never refuse a request by the
Committee to come to testify before the Committee because
you're concerned about what Congress can do about the NFL's
antitrust exemption; isn't that correct?
Mr. Goodell. If I could, let me just address the first part
of the question.
Mr. Johnson. Well, I just want to get a yes-or-no answer
for that question.
Mr. Goodell. It's not a yes-or-no answer.
Mr. Johnson. It is. It is, Mr. Goodell. Please, cooperate
with me now.
Mr. Goodell. I'm trying to, sir.
Mr. Johnson. I'm working with you. Just answer my question,
sir. I mean the reason why you come is because you respect our
ability to tamper with the NFL's exemption--antitrust
exemption, correct?
Mr. Goodell. I'm here because I believe you should hear our
experience with the Washington Commanders as I said. Second,
regarding the answer----
Mr. Johnson. OK. All right. Well, let me move on.
Mr. Goodell. I'm trying to address your antitrust
exemption. I think the antitrust exemption that was put back in
early 1960's has been very good----
Mr. Johnson. It has been very profitable for the NFL, and
I'm going to reclaim my time.
Mr. Goodell. OK.
Mr. Johnson. The findings of NFL's investigation into
allegations of sexual harassment by Dan Snyder and the
Commanders organization remains secret, and Mr. Snyder has,
himself, has not been held accountable by the NFL.
Additionally, the NFL has entered into an agreement with Dan
Snyder, which prevents the findings of the internal
investigation from coming to light. Every step of the way, the
NFL appears to have been part of a cover up that has resulted
in credible allegations of the maintenance of a culture of
sexual harassment at the Washington Commanders being swept
under the rug.
Meanwhile, for all we know, women working for Washington
Commanders are still being subjected to a hostile workplace
environment while the NFL has stood by Dan Snyder. Statements
that the NFL has held Dan Snyder accountable are impossible to
verify because of your unwillingness to reveal the findings of
the internal investigation. With the antitrust exemption that
the NFL enjoys, which has enabled it to be wildly profitable as
an enterprise, it is no secret that the influence your company
has in the Nation and across the world, Mr. Goodell, is
fundamental.
Why not use this as an opportunity to positively influence
the public by holding Dan Snyder accountable for his actions?
Mr. Goodell. Well, we believe we have held him accountable.
As we said, we had an independent investigation.
Mr. Johnson. In what way have you held him accountable?
Mr. Goodell. He was fined over $10 million. He stepped away
from the organization now for a year. He's required----
Mr. Johnson. So the organization--so the investigation then
has been completed if it has resulted in a fine. Why haven't
those results been released to the public?
Mr. Goodell. We released a summary report, which as I
stated----
Mr. Johnson. Why not the full report?
Mr. Goodell. Because there is no full written report.
Mr. Johnson. Why not?
Mr. Goodell. We had an oral report.
Mr. Johnson. Why has there not been a full written report
rendered on this very important issue?
Mr. Goodell. There was a five-page report that not only
talked about our findings in a summary form, it talked about
the toxic organization and the facts that we needed to
implement new policies and procedures there. We've put those
recommendations from the independent investigator, Beth
Wilkinson, and they implemented and adopted each of those ten
recommendations----
Mr. Johnson. A five-page report, Mr. Goodell, is----
Mr. Comer. His time has expired----
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired. The
gentleman's time has expired.
I will now call upon Mr. Gibbs from Ohio.
You're now recognized, Mr. Gibbs, for five minutes.
Mr. Gibbs. Yes, thank you.
First, before I yield my time, I want to associate myself
with the comments made by Ranking Member Comer about I hope we
have some hearings in the future with Secretaries, Cabinet
Secretaries dealing with our border, dealing with our energy
crisis. We've not had a Cabinet Secretary before this Committee
this Congress. It would be nice to have that.
And so I want to yield the rest of my time to Congressman
Burgess Owens, former NFL football player. I yield my time.
Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you so much for that.
And thank you, Chairwoman Maloney----
Mr. Johnson. Madam Chair, I have a parliamentary inquiry.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman may ask his parliamentary
inquiry.
Mr. Johnson. Yes. Is it proper for a Congressman who or
Congressperson who does not serve on a committee but has been
waived onto the Committee to participate in the questioning of
a witness without any further proceedings?
Chairwoman Maloney. He's been waived onto the Committee.
And, yes, you can have a member on the Committee yield their
time to a waived-on committee member.
Mr. Johnson. Thank you. And I yield back.
Mr. Owens. And, Chairwoman, can I----
Chairwoman Maloney. Mr. Owens, you're now recognized.
Mr. Owens. Thank you. Can I also reclaim the time just
taken a few minutes from me, please?
Chairwoman Maloney. Yes, you can.
Mr. Owens. Thank you so much.
I want to thank again Chairwoman Maloney, Ranking Member
Comer, and members of the Committee for holding this hearing
and especially for allowing me to participate.
I'd like to thank Commissioner Goodell for coming to the
Committee today. It's long been a long dream of mine to ask the
commissioner some questions. And I'm going to take a little
different tack, something I'm very, very concerned about with
the NFL.
The term ``racism'' is thrown around today with alarming
casual frequency. For example, according to Newsweek, requiring
Black individuals to get an ID to vote is racist. According to
NBC News, requiring college applicants to include letters of
recommendation in their application is racist. And my absolute
favorite, a recent USA Today headline asking if math is racist.
What's truly racist is this condescending soft bigotry of
low expectation that have far too long plagued my community. It
was prevalent when I entered the NFL in 1973 when it was
understood that certain positions were reserved for Whites
only. Positions of leadership and intelligence, like
quarterback, center, middle linebacker, free safety, and head
coaches, were considered off limits to Black Americans.
Doug Williams finally broke the White quarterback barrier
in 1988 as the NFL's first Black quarterback to both start and
win a Super Bowl championship.
Yet, Commissioner, decades later, despite all this progress
on and off the field, we're once again forced to discuss under
your watch the NFL's engagement in racism behind the scenes.
In June 2021, the NFL was forced to announce it was ending
its practice of race-norming when paying out compensation to
players experiencing brain damage due to concussions on the
field. The NFL has for years used separate tests based on race
to score players' cognitive threshold. The test taken by Black
players was different than that by White players. The result
determined if financial compensation was warranted.
Doctors were required to use race-based norms that assumed
Black players were inherently less intelligent than their White
teammates. If this sounds like a throwback to the Jim Crow laws
of the Deep South, that's because it is.
This practice came to an end only after lawsuits against
the league by two former Black NFL players who were
accidentally given the cognitive tests normally reserved for
White players. When they both qualified for compensation, the
NFL demanded that they be tested again. This time, when the
clinician applied the race-norming algorithm recommended by the
NFL program manual, they were denied compensation.
As a result of this practice, the NFL compensated injured
Black players and their families less than White players and
their families. To say that Black players should be judged by a
lower standard of brain function than their White teammates is
without question a perfect example of real racism.
Commissioner, due to the time I have to ask you a couple of
questions, just want some yes or noes if you wouldn't mind.
Do you acknowledge that, until 2021, the race-norming
algorithm was used to evaluate intelligence of Black players as
part of the NFL class action settlement?
Mr. Goodell. Was it a specific time that you're asking
about? But this, as you know, I think this was--this is an
issue that was part of a settlement with our former players. A
Federal judge oversaw it. Race-norming is not just used in the
NFL.
Mr. Owens. But, Commissioner, if you wouldn't mind, yes,
this was back in the 2013 settlement. Did you recognize the
race-norming algorithm was part of that settlement? You
commented on that, and I know the NFL's apologized for that.
Mr. Goodell. Yes. The Federal--yes, the two parties agreed
to that because it was a standard medical procedure.
Mr. Owens. All right. So----
Mr. Goodell. What we agreed to do just recently is----
Mr. Owens. Reclaiming my time. I'd like to reclaim my time.
Mr. Goodell. Sure.
Mr. Owens. Thank you so much.
Do you agree that the NFL's use of a scale for Black
Americans versus those of any other race is the definition of
systemic racism? Real simple, yes or no?
Mr. Goodell. It was not required by any doctor to use those
standards, and we have adopted new standards approved by the
Federal judge.
Mr. Comer. If it was not required, then why was it used?
Because in the day there were separate tests used for Blacks
and Whites.
Mr. Goodell. Because that was the method--that's a medical
standard far beyond the NFL.
Mr. Owens. OK. So that being said, I know you apologized
for it. The NFL's apologized.
I'll just say--let me just say this real quickly. Speaking
on behalf of my Black and White brothers who gave their careers
to make sure that we got past racism, this is an atrocity. And
the fact the NFL has judged Black people at a different rate in
intelligence than White people is something that needs to be
looked at.
I look forward to having this conversation with you when
we--as we get into the coming months.
And I thank you, and I'll yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
Mr. Goodell. Congressman----
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlewoman from Michigan, Ms.
Tlaib, is now recognized.
Mr. Goodell. May I----
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much.
Mr. Goodell. May I----
Ms. Tlaib. And I just want to commend my colleague. You
know, this is why lived experience is so incredibly important.
As a survivor of sexual harassment in my first job outside
of college, I can tell you it is so incredibly important that
Congress leads on this issue in making sure that everyone is
safe away from discrimination. Again, that can be incredibly
traumatic and can last a very long time with people as they
move from career to career.
You know, when dozens of women came forward with
allegations of attacks at workplace at the Commanders, team
owner Dan Snyder stated, and I quote, ``I have admittedly been
too hands-off as an owner and allowed others to have day-to-day
control, to the detriment of our organization.''
Commissioner, you were personally briefed on internal
investigation into the Commanders, as you know. And sitting
here today, do you believe that Dan Snyder was a hands-off team
owner? Was he a hands-off team owner, sir?
Mr. Goodell. In my judgment----
Ms. Tinker. Yes or no, was he hands-off?
Mr. Goodell. The owner is responsible for the workplace.
Ms. Tlaib. The Committee has recently obtained evidence
that shows exactly how involved Dan Snyder was in fueling the
toxic workplace environment. The Committee conducted a
deposition of Dave Pauken, who was chief operating officer of
the Commanders for a number of years. He worked with Mr. Snyder
every single day.
Do you want to know? He said basically--this is what he
said to us--that he said, quote, ``Both hands on when it came
to Mr. Snyder.'' So he's very directly involved.
Mr. Pauken also detailed his role in decisions, big and
small. And I'd like to talk about one of those decisions if I
may, Commissioner, that I found particularly troubling.
In the fall of 2002, the team hired a new head coach who,
according to Mr. Pauken, quote, ``groped a member,'' ``groped a
member of the public relations staff at an event.''
According to Mr. Pauken, he consulted with Mr. Snyder about
what to do, even though, as he said, quote, ``I knew what we
were going to do.''
Do you know what that--what he was talking about,
Commissioner, here? And, of course, it was nothing. He was
going to do nothing. Mr. Pauken said that he, Mr. Snyder,
decided, quote, ``We weren't going to confront the new coach.''
Commissioner Goodell, Mr. Pauken participated in a number
of interviews with the law firm handling internal
investigation. Has NFL looked into these allegations against
the former coach?
Mr. Goodell. Listen, all of those allegations----
Ms. Tlaib. Has he?
Mr. Goodell [continuing]. Should be treated seriously.
Ms. Tlaib. Has he? You're working with the firm.
Mr. Goodell. All----
Ms. Tlaib. Has he, sir?
Mr. Goodell. All these allegations have been treated very
seriously.
Ms. Tlaib. So the allegation of groping a public relations
staffer was investigated?
Mr. Goodell. All I can tell you is we hired an independent
investigator to look at the whole thing.
Ms. Tlaib. Yes, got it. I got it. They did the same thing
in that previous job I was at. They did the same thing and
wrote it off.
Committee staff conducted another deposition, Commissioner,
this time of former president of business operations, a CEO,
Brian Lafemina. He testified that he raised allegations----
Mr. Goodell. Lafemina.
Ms. Tlaib. Sorry, sir. I know. Made by Rachel Engleson, a
former Commanders employee, about the misconduct of Commanders
executive Larry Michael.
Ms. Engleson alleged that Mr. Michael, quote, ``would touch
her face in an unwanted fashion, talk about her looks in front
of large audiences, and kiss her.''
Mr. Lafemina says that he brought these allegations to Mr.
Snyder's attention in July 2018. According to Mr. Lafemina, Mr.
Snyder's response was, quote, ``Larry was a sweetheart, and
Larry wouldn't hurt anybody.''
Two years later, in July 2020, Mr. Michael resigned from
the club after seven--I repeat--seven former employees said he
routinely discussed the physical appearance of female
colleagues in sexual and disparaging overtones. He even made
crude comments about an intern.
Take a listen to what he said, Commissioner, if we can play
the audio, please.
[Audio recording played.]
Ms. Tlaib. Unbelievable. So disgusting.
Mr. Snyder wasn't hands-off. He simply turned a blind eye
to the conduct he didn't want us all to see, right? This is all
too common in the American workplace.
Commissioner Goodell, is this an acceptable way to run a
team?
Mr. Goodell. That example you just showed me is not
acceptable and it's why we went into this investigation.
Ms. Tlaib. Could have been your daughter, sir. It could
have--I mean, it literally is disgusting.
Mr. Goodell. I completely agree with that.
Ms. Tlaib. Would you commit to doing more? I mean, right
now you keep saying you did everything possible. You're
setting--you have to do more. Yes or no, are you willing to do
more?
Mr. Goodell. Yes, of course I'm willing to do more. I never
said that we are actually going to stop. I actually said the
opposite. We will continue to----
Ms. Tlaib. But you had a report that recommended Dan Snyder
be removed as a team owner. You can recommend that Dan Snyder
be removed as a team owner.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady's time has expired. The
gentleman may answer her question.
Your time has expired.
You may answer her question. Should Dan Snyder be removed?
Mr. Goodell. I think I answered----
Ms. Tlaib. Remove him. Will you remove him?
Mr. Goodell. I don't have the authority to remove him,
Congresswoman.
Chairwoman Maloney. The time has expired.
The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Sessions, is recognized for
five minutes. And votes have been called. OK.
Mr. Sessions. Madam Chairman, thank you very much. I
appreciate you and Mr. Comer trying to work together.
Commissioner, I want to thank you for taking time to be
with us today. I think you've heard that Congress is sometimes
assertive about some of the ideas that we have. But I thank you
for taking your time to be here, I think answering questions
that dealt with someone else's behavior; also your own, because
as commissioner you have a responsibility for the league.
I want to thank you for trying to work with people across
the spectrum--athletes, coaches, fans, television networks,
owners--and to tell that you I think that from my perspective--
and I have been a football fan for many, many years. Jerry
Jones is a very close and dear friend of mine. And I've watched
Mr. Jones and the Cowboys, as well as almost every other team
in the league, to be able to work through athletes'
circumstances and things that happen.
I think you've done an outstanding job, and I think that it
said volumes to me about the changes that had been made within
the Commander organization.
I think that we're all entitled to make mistakes, and I
think we're entitled to try and make up for it. I think it says
volumes that you as commissioner will lead the effort to have
conversations not just with owners, but really the teams that
are involved about that which you believe would be in the best
interest of the league, because that is really what your job
is.
But, Commissioner, I want to say this to you. I think it's
also important that we here in Congress recognize we're not
perfect either, and we do things that can be seen in ways that
are not always the same way everybody in Congress would want.
But I have watched in this town over the last few years
about an attack against Dan Snyder, an attack at the former
Redskins organization, because of the name that was selected
many, many, many years ago and a team and a name that became
influential across the country in a positive fashion, positive
fashion not just with perhaps African-American athletes but
other athletes who chose to come and play here.
But, Mr. Commissioner, I want you to know that this
organization here in Congress makes mistakes also, and
sometimes those mistakes are letting us get ahead of a
professional conversation that we need to have with a
conversation that is perhaps political.
And I want to show an article that was in Politico that
discussed this very directly where it was assumed that this
could be fundraising fodder, a reason to get rid of Dan Snyder
in this town by Members of this organization, as a matter of
fact, not just Members of this organization but chairman of the
House Oversight Subcommittee.
And, Mr. Commissioner, I want you to know that I think we'd
like to invite you back next year. I think you have a story to
tell that is one of significance and one of taking many, many
people, diverse backgrounds, people who are, sure, in the
entertainment industry, but people who also stand up as heroes
to many of our children.
And I think that you've done a great job in taking these
men, who by all accounts may not have had the greatest of life.
Perhaps they've turned themself into something better. I could
think about Don Perkins. I could think about lots of people
with the Dallas Cowboys that I've watched, Calvin Hill, a
number of people that have used their position in society as a
result of their athletic ability. Their credentialing has
helped them in life.
Bill Glass, a personal friend of my family's, became a
Christian minister and helped those who were in prison as a
result of his direct observations from working in the NFL about
diverse people.
So I think that there's a great story to tell, and none of
us are perfect.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Sessions. But we do represent ideas.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Sessions. And I hope that you'll accept our invitation
to come back.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Sessions. I yield back my time and thank the
gentlewoman.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady from California, Jackie
Speier, is recognized for five minutes.
Ms. Speier. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I apologize for also having the National Defense
Authorization Act up in Armed Services.
Commissioner, you announced at the conclusion of a 10-month
internal investigation, and despite hundreds of interviews, you
insisted that there was no written report. And yet documents
obtained by the committee reveal that the NFL agreed to a
written report when it took control of the investigation.
I'd like us to put that up on the screen.
In the very first paragraph it says, and I quote, ``As part
of the investigation, Wilkinson Walsh will complete a written
report of its findings.''
Is this the agreement you signed, yes or no?
Mr. Goodell. I have never seen the agreement before,
Congressperson, but I know that we signed an engagement letter
that was essentially the same engagement letter that was signed
by the Washington Commanders.
Ms. Speier. All right. So you made the decision to receive
an oral rather than a written report. Is that correct?
Mr. Goodell. We did in October of that year on the basis
of----
Ms. Speier. OK.
Mr. Goodell [continuing]. Providing confidentiality to the
people who came forward. It was important to----
Ms. Speier. But that's bogus because those--reclaiming my
time.
The survivors have begged you to release that report. It is
the Commanders, it's Dan Snyder that had PIs hired to
intimidate them and show up at their doorsteps.
So the question is, did you ever--were you ever aware of a
written report or were you ever aware of a PowerPoint
presentation, yes or no?
Mr. Goodell. I am not aware of that. And I want to clarify
something you said in respect to the people coming forward.
People coming forward, their confidentiality was important to
them. Some have come forward and not been concerned about their
privacy or confidentiality. But there are many others, the vast
majority of the people that were spoken to in the context of
this investigation, have wanted to continue their privacy and
their confidentiality.
Ms. Speier. Will you free Beth Wilkinson----
Mr. Goodell. So we respected that.
Ms. Speier. Will you free Beth Wilkinson to be able to
speak freely about the findings from her internal investigation
with this Committee?
Mr. Goodell. As we've said many times before in the context
of this, the details and the investigation of Beth Wilkinson
are privileged. We're going to protect the----
Ms. Speier. We're asking you----
Mr. Goodell [continuing]. Confidentiality and privacy----
Ms. Speier. We're asking you----
Mr. Goodell [continuing]. Of those people who came forward.
Ms. Speier. We're asking you whether or not--OK. Let me ask
you this then.
For those victims that would like to have the report
released as it relates to them, will you release that?
Mr. Goodell. We couldn't do that and protect the
confidentiality. That's an issue of privilege.
Ms. Speier. That's not true. You could----
Mr. Goodell. Well, Congresswoman----
Ms. Speier. No, not if the victims are willing to have that
information about themselves released.
Mr. Goodell. I'm not an attorney, but we can't waive
privilege for some that would impact others, I don't believe.
But we--I'm happy to have our attorneys be able to address that
with you. I'm not an attorney.
Ms. Speier. So the Carolina Panthers, there was an
investigation of them two years before the Commanders
investigation. They included several recommendations for the
league to strengthen its protection of workers. One was a
specific prohibition to nondisclosure agreements to limit
reporting of potential violations.
Did the league ever adopt that recommendation?
Mr. Goodell. Mary Jo White made four recommendations. I
think that's what you're referring to. We've implemented three
of the four.
The one we didn't, that we were concerned with, was that
all workplace functions--excuse me--violations or allegations
had to be reported to our office. We don't think we're situated
to be able to handle all that. But, obviously, that's something
that the individual clubs are going to have to be able to
address their own workplace.
Ms. Speier. Would you----
Mr. Goodell. If there's violation of law or a personal
conduct policy, that will be reported to us.
Ms. Speier. All right. Reclaiming my time. Reclaiming my
time.
Would you put in place a prohibition that nondisclosure
agreements cannot be used by the various organizations under
the NFL?
Mr. Goodell. Well, I think this is similar to what the
Chairwoman mentioned in your legislation, and we said that we
are operating on the basis that nondisclosure agreements cannot
prevent a witness from coming forward and sharing the
information with us. We understand the legislation----
Ms. Speier. I'm just asking what you would do
professionally yourself.
Mr. Goodell. Right now we're--we do not let our employees--
excuse me--our employees to use a nondisclosure agreement to
not to cooperate with a league investigation.
Ms. Speier. So nondisclosure agreements by each of your
various teams are not being used? Is that what you're saying?
Mr. Goodell. No, I'm not saying that.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady's time has expired.
The gentleman may answer her question.
Mr. Goodell. I'm not saying that. state by state, our teams
operate in different states. They have different laws. So the
Federal legislation is something that we're willing to work
with the Committee on.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you. The gentleman's time has
expired.
And before we close, I want to offer the ranking member an
opportunity to offer any closing remarks he may have.
Ranking Member Comer, you are now recognized.
Mr. Comer. Thank you, Madam Chair.
And let me thank Commissioner Goodell for testifying here
today. Really appreciate that and the conversation.
And let me summarize what we heard today from two and a
half hours of the testimony is that there was a toxic work
culture at the Washington Redskins football team. The NFL came
in, had independent auditors come in. They identified the
problem. Those people were held accountable. They were
terminated. And the NFL has ongoing investigations into this.
And from what we've heard today, the problems have been fixed
and the organization moves on.
We don't believe this was a role of Congress. We don't
think this was a good use of congressional time. We don't think
that was a good use of taxpayer dollars.
Madam Chair, before I close, I want to let Mr. Goodell know
that I will be sending two additional questions for the record,
and, obviously, he can't answer because the Committee's over,
but just want to publicly say what those questions will be.
No. 1, it's been reported that you retained former U.S.
Attorney General Loretta Lynch to investigate a former minority
shareholder for his involvement in manufacturing false
allegations about Mr. Snyder. Is that true? That's the first
question.
The last question. It has also been reported that, after
reviewing Attorney General Lynch's investigation, you
permanently banned that minority shareholder from ever owning
an NFL team or otherwise participating in business
relationships with the NFL. Is that true?
And I think the answers to those two questions might solve
some of the uncertainty that still remains about the Washington
football team.
With that, Madam Chair, thank you, and I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
In closing, I want to thank you, Commissioner Goodell, for
appearing before us today. We appreciate very much your
testimony and your willingness----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Madam Chair? Madam Chair, this is
Debbie Wasserman Schultz.
Chairwoman Maloney. We are in closing right now and I have
to get to the floor to vote. So I have to close right now.
We appreciate your testimony. And as we learned today, the
Committee's investigation has uncovered new evidence of
troubling conduct at the Washington Commanders' workplace.
And as we heard today, the Commissioner agreed that this
conduct was incredibly serious. In fact, he testified that he
has, quote, ``not seen any workplace in the NFL that is
anywhere near what we saw,'' end quote.
I am happy that Commissioner Goodell recognizes that the
NFL has one of the most influential platforms in America and
that Mr. Snyder's actions were unacceptable. Unfortunately, Mr.
Goodell has not agreed to release the findings from the NFL's
internal investigation. Without transparency, we cannot have
true accountability.
That is why I announced my intent to issue a subpoena to
Daniel Snyder to appear for a deposition next week. We will not
be deterred by billionaire owners or political posturing. The
victims demand answers, and we all demand justice.
I want to briefly address some questions raised today about
the Committee's jurisdiction. To be clear, what I was conveying
earlier is that the Oversight Committee has broad investigative
authority under House Rule X to investigate any matters within
Congress' legislative power.
As I also explained earlier, this Committee has a long
bipartisan history of investigating workplace conduct in
professional sports, including sexual misconduct.
This investigation has already led to two bills that I
introduced to help strengthen protections for workers from
workplace misconduct.
I would invite all of my colleagues on both sides of the
aisle to join me in supporting these efforts. The Committee
will not waiver in our efforts to conduct this investigation to
ensure that women and all Americans are protected in the
workplace.
With that, and in closing, I want to thank our panelist
again for your remarks. And I want to commend my colleagues for
participating in this important conversation.
With that, without objection, all members will have five
legislative days within which to submit extraneous materials
and to submit additional written questions for the witnesses to
the chair, which will be forwarded to the witnesses for
response.
I ask our witness to please respond as promptly as
possible. Again, thank you for your attendance today.
This hearing is adjourned, and I hope I can make the vote.
[Whereupon, at 1:38 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]