[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                     DIVERSITY INCLUDES DISABILITY:
                   EXPLORING INEQUITIES IN FINANCIAL
                       SERVICES FOR PERSONS WITH
                     DISABILITIES, INCLUDING THOSE
                         NEWLY DISABLED DUE TO
                            LONG-TERM COVID

=======================================================================

                             HYBRID HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON DIVERSITY

                             AND INCLUSION

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 24, 2022

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services

                           Serial No. 117-86
                           
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                              __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
47-881 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

                 HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

                 MAXINE WATERS, California, Chairwoman

CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York         PATRICK McHENRY, North Carolina, 
NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York             Ranking Member
BRAD SHERMAN, California             FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York           BILL POSEY, Florida
DAVID SCOTT, Georgia                 BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
AL GREEN, Texas                      BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan
EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri            ANN WAGNER, Missouri
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado              ANDY BARR, Kentucky
JIM A. HIMES, Connecticut            ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
BILL FOSTER, Illinois                FRENCH HILL, Arkansas
JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio                   TOM EMMER, Minnesota
JUAN VARGAS, California              LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey          BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas              ALEXANDER X. MOONEY, West Virginia
AL LAWSON, Florida                   WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio
MICHAEL SAN NICOLAS, Guam            TED BUDD, North Carolina
CINDY AXNE, Iowa                     DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois                TREY HOLLINGSWORTH, Indiana
AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts       ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
RITCHIE TORRES, New York             JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts      BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin
ALMA ADAMS, North Carolina           LANCE GOODEN, Texas
RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan              WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania         VAN TAYLOR, Texas
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, New York   PETE SESSIONS, Texas
JESUS ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas
NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, Massachusetts

                   Charla Ouertatani, Staff Director
                Subcommittee on Diversity and Inclusion

                     JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio, Chairwoman

AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts       ANN WAGNER, Missouri, Ranking 
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts          Member
RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan              FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania         TED BUDD, North Carolina
SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas, Vice Chair     ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio, Vice 
NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia                 Ranking Member
JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, Massachusetts      JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
                                     LANCE GOODEN, Texas
                                     WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hearing held on:
    May 24, 2022.................................................     1
Appendix:
    May 24, 2022.................................................    27

                               WITNESSES
                         Tuesday, May 24, 2022

Cannington, Alison, Senior Manager, Advocacy and Organizing, The 
  Kelsey.........................................................     4
DiBartolo, Cynthia, Founder and CEO, Tigress Financial Partners..     6
Foley, Thomas, Executive Director, National Disability Institute.     7
Sullivan, Caroline, Executive Director, North Carolina Business 
  Committee for Education, Office of the Governor................    10
Thompson, Vilissa, Fellow, The Century Foundation, & Co-Director, 
  Disability Economic Justice Collaborative......................     9

                                APPENDIX

Prepared statements:
    Cannington, Alison...........................................    28
    DiBartolo, Cynthia...........................................    42
    Foley, Thomas................................................    57
    Sullivan, Caroline...........................................    61
    Thompson, Vilissa............................................    67

              Additional Material Submitted for the Record

Beatty, Hon. Joyce:
    Written statement of the Consortium for Constituents with 
      Disabilities...............................................    76
    Written statement of CURE SMA................................    79
    Written statement of Disability:IN...........................    81
    Written statement of Paralyzed Veterans of America...........    83
    Written statement of Hon. Jan Schakowsky, a Representative in 
      Congress from the State of Illinois, regarding her bill, 
      H.R. 4695, the Eleanor Smith Inclusive Home Design Act.....    90

 
                     DIVERSITY INCLUDES DISABILITY:
                        EXPLORING INEQUITIES IN
                     FINANCIAL SERVICES FOR PERSONS
                      WITH DISABILITIES, INCLUDING
                        THOSE NEWLY DISABLED DUE
                           TO LONG-TERM COVID

                              ----------                              


                         Tuesday, May 24, 2022

             U.S. House of Representatives,
                          Subcommittee on Diversity
                                     and Inclusion,
                           Committee on Financial Services,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 12:05 p.m., in 
room 2128, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Joyce Beatty 
[chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding.
    Members present: Representatives Beatty, Pressley, Lynch, 
Tlaib, Garcia of Texas, Williams of Georgia, Auchincloss; Budd, 
Gonzalez of Ohio, and Rose.
    Ex officio present: Representative Waters.
    Chairwoman Beatty. The Subcommittee on Diversity and 
Inclusion will come to order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the subcommittee at any time. Also, without 
objection, members of the full Financial Services Committee who 
are not members of this subcommittee are authorized to 
participate in today's hearing.
    Today's hearing is entitled, ``Diversity Includes 
Disability: Exploring Inequities in Financial Services for 
Persons with Disabilities, Including Those Newly Disabled Due 
to Long-Term COVID.''
    I now recognize myself for 4 minutes to give an opening 
statement.
    This subcommittee has been focused on examining diversity 
in all its forms in the intersection with financial and 
economic opportunity. I am very pleased that today's hearing 
will continue that work by exploring the barriers that persons 
with disability experience in seeking full economic inclusion, 
employment opportunities, entrepreneurship, affordable and 
accessible housing, and beyond.
    Disability takes many forms. For example, it can be 
physical or cognitive, apparent or invisible, present from 
birth or acquired due to age, illness, or injury. While no 
person's experience is exactly the same as another's, various 
research reports some broad trends that are worth bearing in 
mind as we hear from and question our expert witnesses today. 
Nearly 1 in 4 American adults live with a disability of some 
kind, and that number seems to be growing. The Bureau of Labor 
Statistics estimates that 1.2 million more Americans identify 
as having a disability in 2021, compared to the previous year. 
As many as 7 million Americans are now dealing with long COVID 
and a lot of uncertainty about their future.
    Persons with disabilities are more likely to experience 
unemployment, lower wages and savings, poverty, increased cost 
of living, and homelessness compared to those without a 
disability. As just one metric, the unemployment rate for 
people with disabilities last year was 10.8 percent, over twice 
that of those without, at 5.2 percent.
    Persons with disabilities are also less likely to be 
employed in the financial sector, and, in fact, are 
disproportionately excluded from traditional banking consumers. 
And as we know, the unbanked community is more at risk of 
financial fraud. Thus, banking as well as housing are areas of 
particular concern, as the lack of affordable housing is even 
more acute for those who need accessible and integrated 
housing. For instance, only 3.5 percent of U.S. homes are on 
the ground floor and configured to accommodate the width of a 
wheelchair.
    I want to thank The Kelsey Group for mentioning in their 
mission the On-Ground Housing Model. And despite the United 
States Supreme Court's Olmstead decision, people with 
disabilities too often have no choice but to live in congregate 
institutional settings rather than integrated into their 
communities.
    These are some of the challenges that people with 
disabilities face, and it is my goal that this hearing will 
include a thoughtful discussion on policies that this committee 
and this Congress can consider to build a more inclusive 
economy.
    I return to one of the core principles that I have used to 
guide this subcommittee's work, that diversity is beneficial, 
not just for individuals, but for businesses and for the 
economy as a whole. I believe if we have a broad range of 
perspectives and experiences, that will lead to better 
decisions and better value. People with disabilities have much 
to offer in this regard, and I certainly look forward to the 
witness testimony and the questions from the committee. Thank 
you.
    I now recognize the vice ranking member of the 
subcommittee, my friend and colleague from the great State of 
Ohio, Mr. Anthony Gonzalez, for 5 minutes for an opening 
statement.
    Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty. I like 
your office. It is well-decorated. I like all the Ohio swag in 
there.
    Thank you for holding this hearing, and I thank all of our 
witnesses for being here.
    Americans with disabilities face challenges in their daily 
lives that Americans without a disability would never even 
think to consider. Our role here in Congress is to make sure 
that those with a disability are treated the same under the law 
and provided the tools to succeed and overcome the challenges 
associated with their disabilities. As we will hear today from 
our witnesses, leaders throughout industry and every level of 
government understand that this is a serious challenge and make 
efforts to find new solutions. Whether it is the creation of 
new innovative programs to reach out to Americans to equip 
disabled Americans with the skill sets to be successful, or 
inclusive hiring practices, we are seeing exciting new 
initiatives to create more opportunities for disabled 
Americans.
    That being said, there is still a tremendous amount of work 
to be done. Americans with disabilities face obstacles that 
require the private sector and elected officials to work 
closely together to take on and find innovative solutions. Most 
notably, these challenges include trouble accessing housing 
that meets the needs of an individual's disabilities. With 
today's very tight housing market, these challenges have only 
been exacerbated and have become more costly to those with 
disabilities. We know that having limited or unstable access to 
housing can cause so many downstream effects, including 
transportation options, job opportunities, and even personal 
safety. Additionally, Americans with disabilities are more 
likely to experience poverty and to be unbanked or underbanked 
as a result of their disability. It is critical that we better 
align our workforce to meet the needs of individuals with 
disabilities and provide the proper training and pathway to 
successful careers.
    I am also glad to see the focus of this hearing include the 
impact of COVID-19. While the pandemic has receded in many 
ways, millions of Americans are still reeling from the loss of 
a loved one or struggling to deal with the lasting impacts of 
the disease.
    Outside of the Financial Services Committee, I have been 
pushing the bipartisan and bicameral Brycen Gray and Ben Price 
COVID-19 Cognitive Research Act, which would direct the NSF to 
fund research on the short- and long-term mental health impacts 
of the disease. It is important that we find answers as to why 
so many Americans are suffering from physical and mental side 
effects directly caused by the virus. It is my hope that this 
legislation will help us better-understand the potential 
lasting impacts of this disease and how to improve mental 
health outcomes.
    In today's hearing, I am interested to hear how new 
technology can help individuals better access financial 
institutions, how the private sector can more closely work with 
elected officials and advocacy groups to promote the hiring of 
disabled Americans, and the shortfalls in current law that 
inhibit individuals with a disability.
    I again thank the chairwoman for convening this hearing. I 
look forward to today's dialogue, and I thank all of our 
witnesses. With that, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you. I now recognize the Chair of 
the full Financial Services Committee and thank her for joining 
us today, the gentlewoman from California, Chairwoman Maxine 
Waters.
    Chairwoman Waters. Thank you so very much, Chairwoman 
Beatty. It is unfortunate that the financial services and 
housing markets do not adequately serve persons with 
disabilities. These industries often put profit first, and 
neglect to make accommodations even when the law requires it. 
Disabled people are disproportionately at risk of being 
homeless and living in poverty, and Black, indigenous, or 
Latinx people are at even greater risk. Today, roughly 1.2 
million more Americans identify as having a disability because 
of COVID. I have drafted legislation and have encouraged the 
SEC to provide investors with better information about which 
companies are accommodating the disabled community. These and 
other reforms are long past due.
    So, I thank you so very much, Mrs. Beatty, for holding this 
hearing, and I yield back the balance of my time.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you, Chairwoman Waters.
    Today, we welcome the testimony of our distinguished 
witnesses: Ms. Alison Cannington, senior manager, advocacy and 
organizing, at The Kelsey; Ms. Cynthia DiBartolo, founder and 
CEO, Tigress Financial Partners; Mr. Thomas Foley, executive 
director, National Disability Institute; Ms. Vilissa Thompson, 
fellow, The Century Foundation, and co-director, Disability 
Economic Justice Collaborative; and Ms. Caroline Sullivan, 
executive director, North Carolina Business Committee for 
Education, Office of the Governor.
    The witnesses are reminded that their oral testimony will 
be limited to 5 minutes. You should be able to see a timer that 
will indicate how much time you will have left. I would ask 
that you be mindful of the timer, or hearing me vocally share 
with that you your time is up, so that we can be respectful of 
the witnesses and the committee members' time.
    And without objection, your written statements will be made 
a part of the record.
    We will start with Ms. Cannington. You are now recognized 
for 5 minutes to give an oral presentation of your testimony.

 STATEMENT OF ALISON CANNINGTON, SENIOR MANAGER, ADVOCACY AND 
                     ORGANIZING, THE KELSEY

    Ms. Cannington. Chairwoman Beatty, Ranking Member Gonzalez, 
and members of the Diversity and Inclusion Subcommittee, thank 
you for inviting me to testify today. My name is Ali 
Cannington, and I am a White, queer, disabled Jew who lives in 
Oakland, California, and I have been organizing in the cross-
disability rights movement for over a decade. Currently, I 
serve as the senior manager of advocacy and organizing at The 
Kelsey, where we pioneered disability-forward housing solutions 
that open doors to more affordable homes and opportunities for 
everyone. We have over 240 affordable, accessible, integrated, 
and inclusive homes in our pipeline, and we lead initiatives to 
support market and policy conditions that can make inclusive 
housing the norm. Today, I will provide an overview of how 
disabled people, the most diverse and largest minority 
population, are disproportionately impacted by our nation's 
housing crisis.
    Housing has failed to be affordable, meaning affordable to 
people of all incomes, especially those who are extremely low-
income. Housing has failed to be accessible, meaning housing is 
located, designed, and built to meet cross-disability access. 
Housing has failed to be fully integrated, meaning housing that 
does not segregate or isolate but is mixed between people with 
and without disabilities, and inclusive, meaning there are 
supportive communities where people can access programs and 
supports they need to thrive in and around where they live.
    We do have a Federal legal framework in place, including 
the Fair Housing Act, which prohibited discrimination based on 
race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status, 
and disabilities; the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) 
requiring public entities to administer services, programs, and 
activities in the most integrated setting; and we have the 
Olmstead Supreme Court decision, which confirmed that under 
Title II of the ADA, disabled people have the right to 
community integration. And yet, we have never invested in the 
housing infrastructure to make these rights a reality for the 
ever-growing disabled population.
    Today, there are more than 61 million of us, people with 
disabilities, living in the U.S., and due to COVID-19, initial 
estimates said that by the end of 2021, there were an 
additional 1.2 million more disabled people. The population has 
and will continue to rise, and the reality is that people with 
disabilities are twice as likely to live in poverty. Four-and-
a-half million people rely on SSI, and you cannot afford any 
housing in any U.S. market with SSI. Fifty-five percent of all 
housing discrimination is based on disability, the highest 
rates of discrimination experienced across any protected class. 
At minimum, 40 percent of people experiencing homelessness are 
disabled. One in 2 people turning to shelters are people with 
disabilities, and less than 12 percent of people with 
intellectual and developmental disabilities rent or own their 
own home.
    Segregated housing models still prevail, and the 
institutional bias is intact, and Federal and State Governments 
have never invested in the commensurate supply of service-ready 
integrated housing. These housing crises are disproportionately 
experienced by Black, Brown, Indigenous, and immigrants with 
disabilities. The Federal Government can and must invest in the 
housing infrastructure so that all people with disabilities, 
regardless of their backgrounds, identities, and levels of 
support needs, can live in their own homes and communities.
    This committee has the ability to fund, mandate, and guide 
the development of needed solutions that must be co-created by 
disabled people, for example, vouchers, especially mainstream 
and 811 project-based rental assistance, which ensures people 
with disabilities can afford housing, and that disability-
inclusive projects are built. Accessibility requirements can be 
increased and coupled with funding incentives that encourage 
housing to be built and operated beyond the minimum 
requirements for cross-disability access. Stronger guidance can 
come from the Federal Government that better aligns various 
funding sources and meets and affirms the housing investments 
needed to fulfill the integration mandate of the ADA. And 
innovative policies and robust funding can make it more 
feasible, easier, and clearer for housing developers and 
municipalities to advance inclusive, accessible, integrated, 
and affordable housing.
    More details on both the need and the remedies are included 
in my written testimony, and I look forward to exploring more 
with this committee on what can be done to support a truly 
disability-forward housing future.
    Thank you so much.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Cannington can be found on 
page 28 of the appendix.]
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you very much, Ms. Cannington.
    Ms. DiBartolo, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give 
an oral presentation of your testimony.

   STATEMENT OF CYNTHIA DIBARTOLO, FOUNDER AND CEO, TIGRESS 
                       FINANCIAL PARTNERS

    Ms. DiBartolo. Thank you. Good day, Chairwoman Beatty, 
Ranking Member Wagner, Chairwoman Waters, Vice Ranking Member 
Gonzalez, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank 
you for the opportunity to testify today. I commend the members 
of the subcommittee for your collective focus on disability, 
diversity, equality, and inclusion at U.S. financial 
institutions and corporate America, more broadly.
    Disability is an underdeveloped area of DEI, and we have an 
obligation to give a voice to those voiceless individuals. I 
come before you as an experienced financial services 
professional, the founder and CEO of Tigress Financial 
Partners, the nation's only disabled- and woman-owned financial 
services firm, the CEO of Ryan Financial Services from the only 
woman-owned prime broker, the Chair of the Financial Services 
Committee of the Rainbow PUSH Coalition under the appointment 
of Reverend Jesse Jackson, and as an individual who is 
permanently disabled. I hope that my testimony will yield 
insight on the glaring issues of the gross inequalities facing 
the disabled.
    We must address the realities with respect to the 
acceleration of the intersectionality of disability and other 
marginalized groups, as well as the real and perceived barriers 
to economic sustainability and inclusion in the mainstream 
workforce, along with the challenges faced by disabled 
entrepreneurs in accessing capital, together with a patent lack 
of transparent and uniform disability and diversity data and 
reporting in both the private and public sectors. Each of these 
disparities, whether individually or collectively, deny the 
disabled their dignity to include their participation in the 
workforce, hold them hostage to a life of poverty, and impair 
their overall quality of life.
    I speak from personal experience. In 2011, I founded 
Tigress Financial Partners after working in corporate America 
for more than 25 years, where I served as an attorney, a 
compliance director, and a risk management director at some of 
the largest global banks. At the height of my career, I was 
diagnosed with head and neck cancer, and I was left severely 
disabled. I had my tongue reconstructed from parts of my body 
using the artery, veins, and muscles from both my arms, and I 
learned to speak again over the course of several years. 
However, my articulation is much more deliberate and 
intentional, and I have limited endurance. Cancer not only took 
my tongue, but it took my entire career.
    Fueled with my passion to still work in financial services, 
I went to FINRA and the SEC to start the nation's first 
disabled- and woman-owned financial services firm. I quickly 
discovered that access to capital with debt or equity was 
nearly nonexistent, but for people with disabilities, the 
barriers to entrepreneurship were more acute and difficult to 
overcome. Countless individuals like me were labeled disabled 
entrepreneurs and fell outside the mainstream of what an 
entrepreneur is defined as by society. Bottom line, ableism was 
the common barrier I faced.
    I made a tactical journey, and built my firm to more than 
60 individuals, of whom 80 percent are diverse: African 
American; Hispanic; Asian; Indian; women; and disabled. In 
2011, we made history by becoming the very first woman-owned 
and disabled New York Stock Exchange member and floor broker in 
The Big Board's 229-year history. So, it is important to 
recognize that firms like Tigress can compete with any 
formidable firm in financial services. We just happen to draw 
from a different and diverse pool of talent.
    People with disabilities are truly the missing link in this 
discussion regarding diversity and diversity of thought. In 
order to transform the economic system, we need to meet the 
needs of 61 million people with disabilities and the newly 
disabled individuals who are suffering from long-term COVID. We 
have to pivot from a broken system which precludes that 
financial stability, and seek ways to promote entrepreneurship. 
In doing so, disabled people should be allowed to operate in 
parallel with both a disability service system and the business 
system.
    Let me be clear. The gross inequalities I speak of today 
are not rooted in disabled individuals, but rather, they are 
rooted in the handicap economic resources, the compulsive 
disorder our society has with stereotyping ableism, a willful 
blindness to the lack of uniform transparent data, and the 
disordered allocation of power.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. DiBartolo can be found on 
page 42 of the appendix.]
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you very much not only for your 
testimony, but also for sharing your story. And let me just 
say, as a cerebral brainstem stroke survivor, with months of 
speech therapy, your articulation was amazing. So, we thank you 
again.
    Mr. Foley, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give an 
oral presentation of your testimony. Mr. Foley, I will give you 
a 1-minute alert, if that will be helpful to you, and we won't 
take away from your time when I interrupt you.
    Mr. Foley. Thank you, ma'am. That would be great.

    STATEMENT OF THOMAS FOLEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL 
                      DISABILITY INSTITUTE

    Mr. Foley. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty, Ranking Member 
Gonzalez, and distinguished members of the committee. I really 
appreciate the opportunity to be here today. My name is Thomas 
Foley. I am the executive director of the National Disability 
Institute. For 17 years, we have worked exclusively on issues 
of financial and economic inclusion for people with 
disabilities, but I am also here today as a person who is blind 
and has been on SSI.
    I will never forget as a freshman in college, a friend of 
mine telling me about this $2,000 asset limit, and I thought 
she was kidding. I had no idea why people didn't want me to 
save. I had the same goals and expectations as everyone else. I 
wanted a job that led to a career, a family, retirement 
savings, I wanted to buy a house. I wanted a Golden Retriever. 
I wanted the American Dream. But how was I going to do that 
without saving? That $2,000 asset limit has not changed since I 
was a freshman in college, and that was a while ago. Simply 
put, asset limits discourage savings, working, and hope. We 
support the SSI Savings Penalty Elimination Act as a first step 
to changing the disability economic narrative.
    Many other issues complicate access to financial services 
for people with disabilities. I was lucky. When I was a 
sophomore in high school, I was able to take a financial 
education class, and it changed my life. However, that is the 
exception rather than the rule for most people with 
disabilities. Even standard financial education for people with 
disabilities or a standard financial education leaves out 
critical disability issues that people need to know about, 
things like asset limits, work incentives, ABLE accounts, 
digital accessibility considerations, and the $17,000 a year in 
extra costs related to a disability that most people with 
disabilities incur every single year.
    People with disabilities are simply not often seen as a 
group that needs to be financially served. We see the 
predictable results of this in many ways. The unbanked rate, as 
someone mentioned, for people with disabilities is 3 times 
higher than the general population, 16.2 percent versus 4.5 
percent, according to FDIC data. Even higher unbanked rates are 
observed when we look at the intersection of race, ethnicity, 
and disability. Access to bank credit follows a similar 
pattern. People with disabilities are 1.7 times more likely to 
be refused credit when they ask for it.
    When we look at net worth, average household net worth, 
again, according to 2019 FDIC data, average household net worth 
is about $84,000. Households with a disabled householder are 
about $14,400, and a household with a Black and disabled 
householder is $1,282 in net worth. Not surprisingly, many 
people turn to self-employment. There is additional flexibility 
and opportunity for many people. Unfortunately, much or little 
disability self-employment data is captured by any of our big 
surveys through the Federal Reserve System or through the 
Census. Without data, disability is invisible, and it becomes 
much more difficult to develop targeted programs to reach this 
important group of people.
    At the National Disability Institute, we support disability 
lending disclosures under Section 1071 of the Dodd-Frank Act, 
adding the ADA definition of disability to the Equal Credit 
Opportunity Act (ECOA), and ensuring that disability becomes a 
measurable activity for the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA). 
Banks, financial institutions, and the emerging fintech 
industry need to do more targeted actions to include people 
with disabilities in the communities they serve. There is a 
need to develop trust, particularly at the intersection of 
race, ethnicity, and disability. Be proactive and provide--
    Chairwoman Beatty. Mr. Foley, you have about 30 seconds 
left.
    Mr. Foley. Thank you--affordable, accessible services and 
tools to people with disabilities.
    Members of the committee, I started this testimony with my 
American Dream. Well, I got that job, bought a house, even got 
the Golden Retriever, and I put 2\1/2\ kids through college. I 
am not particularly special. People do not need to change, 
systems do, and with your help today, we can begin to change 
those systems and increase economic opportunity for all people 
with disabilities.
    Thank you for the opportunity.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Foley can be found on page 
57 of the appendix.]
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you so much for your testimony, 
Mr. Foley.
    Ms. Thompson, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give 
an oral presentation of your testimony.

STATEMENT OF VILISSA THOMPSON, FELLOW, THE CENTURY FOUNDATION, 
    & CO-DIRECTOR, DISABILITY ECONOMIC JUSTICE COLLABORATIVE

    Ms. Thompson. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty, Chairwoman 
Waters, Ranking Member Wagner, and members of the subcommittee 
for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Vilissa 
Thompson, and I am a Fellow at the Century Foundation.
    It is vital not only to understand the economic barriers 
faced by disabled Americans, but to apply an intersectional 
lens to ensure that policies and reforms meant to address those 
barriers are effective at doing so for all disabled people, not 
just the most privileged. Thus, for my testimony, I want to 
bring these issues to life by discussing them through the lens 
of a Black, disabled young adult I will name, ``Keisha.'' It is 
with this background that I will share three main points today, 
and I refer the committee to my written testimony for further 
details.
    First, who exactly is a part of this community? The 
community is comprised of 61 million people, 1 in 4 adults. 
This number is steadily climbing due to the pandemic, the mass-
disabling event of our time. The Native community has the 
highest prevalence of disability, and women make up 1 of every 
4 disabled people. Disability can be a significant factor in 
economic insecurity and can be a factor in whether a person 
thrives in a country where productivity and one's ability to 
contribute to the labor force are prioritized more than who 
they are as a person.
    This brings me to my second point, which is the economic 
barriers disabled people face. There are several factors that 
undermine the economic security of this community. With my 
limited time, I will touch on a few, the first being the loss 
of services and supports in young adulthood.
    Young adulthood should be an exciting time, as Keisha 
prepares to finish high school and get her first job. However, 
disabled young adults understand that their concerns for 
independence and self-sufficiency are tied to their disability 
when the supports that they relied on disappear as adults. I 
have more of this in my written testimony, but I wanted to 
highlight the realities with this demographic to insufficient 
affordable, accessible housing. for young disabled adults like 
Keisha, who are looking to rent or buy for the first time, the 
conditions of the market are incredibly discouraging. For 
example, just 5 percent of federally-funded affordable housing 
is required to be accessible for those with mobility 
disabilities.
    My third point is the added cost of living with a 
disability, better known as the, ``crip tax.'' Living with a 
disability is costly. Disabled people are faced with paying 
extraordinary rates for services, et cetera, that are needed to 
make their lives easier and accessible. Households with a 
disabled adult need 20 percent more income to achieve the same 
standard of living as non-disabled households.
    My fourth concerns barriers to employment. A young disabled 
adult like Keisha enters a workforce that has never fully 
considered disabled people as skilled or talented workers. For 
instance, the wage gap, when factoring in race, Black disabled 
people working full time were paid just 6 to 8 cents on average 
for every dollar paid to White non-disabled workers. So even if 
Keisha is able to find full-time work, she can expect to be 
paid significantly less than her White non-disabled peers.
    And my fifth and final point, when it comes to the 
barriers, is outdated Social Security disability programs. I 
won't go into great detail about Social Security because it is 
not within this committee's jurisdiction, but there are 
outdated rules in our disability programs that need to be 
addressed, one being the assets limits, $2,000 for individuals 
and $3,000 for couples, that haven't been updated since 1989. 
Reforming these asset limits has the backing of policymakers 
and stakeholders like JPMorgan Chase.
    Turning to my last and final point for this testimony, 
which is the economic power of the disabled community if 
changes are made, removing barriers to economic security for 
disabled people will not only reduce poverty and hardship, it 
will unlock the significant untapped economic power of this 
community. Achieving economic justice for disabled people will 
require applying a disability lens across the entire economic 
agenda. Several of the bills under review by this committee 
would take important steps to remove barriers to economic 
security and independence for disabled people like Keisha.
    And finally, although I used Keisha to humanize the facts I 
shared, I want to be perfectly clear that what happens to 
disabled people is not hypothetical. In fact, I myself have 
faced many of the disparities I highlighted. I was this young, 
Black, disabled adult trying to navigate systems that have 
roadblocks to impede my success. This data is not abstract to 
me, it is personal, as it is for millions of disabled people. 
The systemic and societal realities that disabled people, 
particularly those of color, endure must not be ignored when we 
discuss the economic barriers that impact our ability to not 
just survive, but thrive.
    Thank you for my time.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Thompson can be found on 
page 67 of the appendix.]
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you very much, Ms. Thompson, for 
your testimony and for sharing Keisha's story.
    Our next witness will be Ms. Sullivan, and you are now 
recognized for 5 minutes to give an oral presentation of your 
testimony.

   STATEMENT OF CAROLINE SULLIVAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NORTH 
   CAROLINA BUSINESS COMMITTEE FOR EDUCATION, OFFICE OF THE 
                            GOVERNOR

    Ms. Sullivan. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Waters, Chairwoman 
Beatty, Ranking Member Wagner, and members of the Diversity and 
Inclusion Subcommittee. My name is Caroline Sullivan, and I am 
the executive director of the North Carolina Business Committee 
for Education, the business-led education and workforce 
nonprofit in the Office of the Governor. And I am honored to 
have been invited by Congressman McHenry from North Carolina to 
talk about a program that addresses the barriers to employment 
for individuals with autism spectrum disorder.
    My organization focuses on work-based learning, and we 
believe that these experiences are critical for students and 
young adults. Yet, many programs such as internships and 
apprenticeships do not include individuals with disabilities. 
And this is true for those who have the education and skills 
needed to do the job, but have faced barriers in getting and 
keeping that job because they are autistic.
    The number of autistic 18-year-olds transitioning from high 
school to adulthood is expected to increase to 1 in 44 by 2028. 
Yet, compared to other developmental disabilities, young adults 
with autism have the lowest participation in paid employment. 
There is an urgent need to develop programs for competitive 
employment for autistic adults. The interview process and group 
dynamics of jobs demand high levels of social and communication 
skills that individuals with autism find difficult. And many 
employers want to hire autistic team members, but they don't 
know how to support them for success.
    In 2018, we designed a paid internship, on-the-job training 
program, working with the North Carolina Division of Vocational 
Rehabilitation and other partners to identify supports and help 
to align systems. Linking North Carolina with Innovative 
Talent, or LiNC-IT, makes the connections between employers, 
higher education, and government services to provide 
opportunities for early career autistic professionals and a 
talented source of workers for North Carolina employers.
    There are 71 individuals who have completed or are 
currently working in LiNC-IT internships. More than 90 percent 
of participants who have completed the program are now in full-
time positions, averaging above the median starting wage in the 
State, many in jobs that pay substantially higher wages, and 
prior to participation in the program, all were either 
underemployed or unemployed.
    We are fortunate that North Carolina is a leader in 
supporting individuals with autism. Thanks to the UNC TEACCH 
Autism Center, which started 50 years ago, and the Autism 
Society of North Carolina, we have service providers with 
expertise in supporting individuals with autism in the 
workplace. They provide our job coaching, and the services are 
paid through voc rehab. The team works with the employer to 
identify positions and pre-screens potential interns who have 
the interest and skills needed for the job. The intern and 
employer are supported during the interview process, and the 
job coach works with the intern and the manager during 
orientation and throughout the internship. They develop 
accommodations for the intern and help with wraparound services 
like transportation.
    At its core, LiNC-IT is focused on system change. We work 
with employers to help develop online training for employers to 
train every team member on how to support their coworkers with 
autism. But true inclusion is not just getting that first job. 
It is also helping team members advance in their careers. Last 
year, one of our first LiNC-IT interns, who now serves on the 
LiNC-IT Collaborative, asked if we could develop a program to 
support career advancement. In April, Governor Cooper announced 
the Career Advancement Resources for Employees on the Spectrum 
initiative to provide eligible State employees with up to 5 
hours of career coaching. We hope this is a model for other 
employers to support their neurodiverse colleagues. We have 
worked with 31 large and small employers across numerous 
sectors, including the financial services industry. Fidelity 
Investments and Credit Suisse have been strong partners. We 
currently are working to expand into State Government in five 
different departments.
    The staggering unemployment rate for autistic adults is not 
just a barrier to financial stability for them, but a missed 
opportunity for employers to find great employees. As the 
mother of a child on the spectrum, I am proud to work in a 
State that supports and values individuals with autism. I 
encourage all public and private employers to develop programs 
like LiNC-IT, and we are happy to serve as a resource.
    Thank you very much for the opportunity, and I look forward 
to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Sullivan can be found on 
page 61 of the appendix.]
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you so much for your testimony, 
and also for highlighting autism. I want to let you know that 
we have actively participated, and I was the keynote speaker 
for the 16th Annual Tools for Transformation of Autism. So, 
again, thank you for highlighting that.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questions.
    My first question is on workforce challenges. Ms. 
DiBartolo, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that over 
700,000 persons with a disability have chosen to be--and we 
have heard this from many of you--entrepreneurs, largely as a 
result of barriers to traditional employment. As a founder of 
the first and only disabled female-owned New York Stock 
Exchange financial services firm, can you give us one thing 
that this committee should be doing differently?
    Ms. DiBartolo. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty. As the Founder 
and CEO of the first and only disabled woman-owned firm, I can 
unequivocally state that the barriers to obtaining financing 
for disabled entrepreneurs are massive. I was armed with 
decades of experience in banking and a law degree, specialized 
in Federal securities, and yet I struggled to find the path to 
capital once I was labeled a disabled entrepreneur. Imagine, if 
it was difficult for me, given my experience and education, how 
could any disabled entrepreneur navigate this incredible slope? 
In the beginning, I could not secure a single investor. I was 
told that I was unbankable. I discovered that access to 
capital, both debt and equity, was nearly nonexistent if you 
were disabled.
    For people with disabilities, the barriers to 
entrepreneurship are huge and they are difficult to overcome, 
including access to benefits, startup capital, and credit.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Okay. I am going to stop you there, and 
I am going to take that one thing is access to capital, only 
because I have three or four more questions I am going to try 
to get to, but thank you.
    Ms. Cannington, in 1999, the Supreme Court ruled that 
unjustified segregation of people with disabilities is illegal 
according to Title II of the ADA. Now, it is requiring local 
and State jurisdictions to eliminate unnecessary segregation, 
including in institutional facilities, to ensure that they 
receive services in the most integrated setting possible. Do 
States and local governments currently track what share of 
their housing stock is accessible and whether such stock is 
integrated? This committee really believes in transparency and 
accountability.
    Ms. Cannington. Thank you so much for that question, Madam 
Chairwoman. The short answer is no.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Okay.
    Ms. Cannington. And a majority no. I do want to highlight, 
though, that due to a major lawsuit against the City of Los 
Angeles, L.A. has developed systems to track which housing is 
accessible and affordable. But there are still real 
inconsistencies across-the-board in terms of tracking 
accessible units as well as integrated units.
    Chairwoman Beatty. And I must say thank you, because you 
have just given us a reason that we can look at that on the 
Federal level.
    Mr. Foley, there are various reports that financial 
services apps and banking websites are not accessible for 
people with disabilities. For example, I wasn't really familiar 
with this CAPTCHA and alt text, the overreliance on the mouse 
to navigate the website. I miss it every time when they tell me 
to find a bridge. But for those who are visually impaired, how 
might we keep financial services providers accountable? When 
you cross the street, you will hear beeps for those who are 
visually impaired. Any insight you can give us in 30 seconds?
    Mr. Foley. Sure. Financial services providers need to build 
accessibility and, from the beginning, make it part of a 
regular review process, use people with disabilities to test 
the products to make sure it works for them, and tie it to 
people's compensation and ability to move forward in the 
organization.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you, and hopefully I can get this 
question in, and it is an interesting topic. Congresswoman 
Madeleine Dean, who is not able to join us, has a bill that is 
called the Private Loan Disability Discharge Act. And I wanted 
to bring this up because student loans continue to act as an 
impediment to building wealth and decades-long burdens, so one 
of the things we are looking at for dealing with that is 
discharging private education loans, or to the co-sponsors, in 
case of a permanent disability or the borrower's death. Would 
you all support that? And that is a yes or no from everyone.
    And we will start with you, Mr. Foley.
    Mr. Foley. Yes.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Ms. DiBartolo?
    Ms. DiBartolo. Absolutely.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Ms. Cannington?
    Ms. Cannington. Absolutely.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Ms. Sullivan?
    Ms. Sullivan. Yes.
    Chairwoman Beatty. And Ms. Thompson?
    Ms. Thompson. Yes.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you very much. Unfortunately, my 
time is up.
    I will now recognize the distinguished vice ranking member, 
Congressman Gonzalez, for 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty, for 
holding today's hearing, and thank you to our witnesses for 
your testimony.
    Ms. DiBartolo, I want to start with you. I have always had 
a particular admiration for successful entrepreneurs. And your 
story, in particular, is just so powerful, and the passion with 
which you tell it is inspiring in so many ways, so I want to 
commend you and thank you for being here, but also just for 
having such incredible tenacity.
    I want to dive a little deeper on that access to capital 
point, because I think whenever you are talking about 
marginalized communities, no matter what community it is, I 
think this access to capital point is just enormously critical, 
maybe the most important thing. And there are some folks in 
this world who can snap their fingers and acquire capital at 
almost zero rates and on unbelievable terms, and then there are 
others who struggle to access even one cent.
    And so, I want to hear more from you. How, specifically, 
did you overcome that? What process did you use? How did you 
get your first dollars in the door, whether it was on the debt 
or equity side, and what were those specific barriers? Just 
dive deep, if you could.
    Ms. DiBartolo. Thank you, Congressman. Truthfully, my own 
resilience is what got me that. Disabled people have an 
unbelievable amount of resilience. They don't just bounce back, 
they bounce back higher. I could not get the capital, so I 
liquidated my own assets, literally liquidated everything I 
could and bet on myself because I was determined to build a 
firm that could stand as an example on Wall Street that 
disabled individuals are part of the diversity and inclusion 
initiatives that we are undertaking, and they bring value, not 
just within an organization, but within the community. That is 
how my company became more successful.
    It is funny to state that the same people who told me no 
early on, and called me an unbankable CEO to my face, came 
knocking at the door after I gained some degree of success, 
asking if they could invest or loan me capital. But I had to go 
quite a long time figuring this out on my own, and I am going 
to humbly say there was one point where I almost had to sell my 
own engagement ring to make payroll.
    Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Wow. Incredible. So, it's fair to say 
the venture capital community, the traditional banking 
community wanted nothing to do with you or your company, and 
you had to literally sell almost every asset you have just to 
get off the ground?
    Ms. DiBartolo. Correct. Just a startup, that is right, 
until they could measure some degree of success.
    Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Yes. And I am sure it felt good to 
see those same people come back and knock on your door and beg 
you to take their capital at some point. It is just an 
incredible story. Thank you for sharing that.
    Ms. Sullivan, I want to switch to you and commend you for 
the incredible work that you are doing in North Carolina, which 
is really exciting to see. When you are talking to employers, 
what are the biggest barriers that you face about potentially 
bringing on individuals with autism? And how do you equip the 
employers with the skills to be successful in hiring an 
individual with autism spectrum disorder?
    Ms. Sullivan. When we first talked to employers, we talked 
about LiNC-IT as a talent acquisition strategy for them. A 
great number of folks said they are missing because they don't 
have ways to support individuals who are neurodiverse. And what 
LiNC-IT really just does is aligns the systems, right? We talk 
with employers to get them interested, and they identify a 
manager who wants to be involved in the program. It is not a 
hiring program. It is a work-based learning program, but almost 
every single one of our interns gets hired.
    And what we do is we work with them all through the 
process. Many individuals with autism have a very hard time 
with interviews, for example, because you are not asking what 
you know. You are asking other things that really aren't 
germane to the job. Onboarding is very difficult, and as I 
said, the social cues in the workplace are hard, and so our 
LiNC-IT interns have job coaches with them the whole time. But 
what we found is the support is intense in the beginning, and 
then it really does wane after a while. Once our participants 
get sort of situated into their jobs, they do very, very well.
    Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Great. Thank you. I see my time is 
up. Thank you again, Chairwoman Beatty. And thank you to the 
witnesses. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you. The gentlewoman from 
Massachusetts, Ms. Pressley, who is also the Vice Chair of our 
Subcommittee on Consumer Protection and Financial Institutions, 
is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Pressley. Madam Chairwoman, thank you for your 
intentional and inclusive leadership. This is a very important 
hearing.
    For too long, the status quo has really failed the 
disability community and subjected our disabled neighbors 
really to a second-class standard of living. Today, we have 
certainly heard many compelling facts and figures which do 
underscore the complexities of navigating this fundamentally 
flawed system, particularly for our neighbors and our loved 
ones in the disability community. But policy ultimately is 
about people. It is not a document on a shelf. It is the lived 
reality in our communities. Policy dictates quite literally who 
lives, who dies, and who thrives.
    I want to talk about one of my constituents from Cambridge, 
whom we will call Mr. James. And Mr. James, say he develops 
long COVID. Conservative estimates put that at a community of 
about 8 million right now. So, he develops long COVID like 
millions of others as a result of this ongoing pandemic. He 
experiences symptoms like chronic fatigue syndrome, cognitive 
dysfunction, and then he begins to struggle at his current job.
    Ms. Thompson, how have individuals like Mr. James, with 
long COVID, struggled to remain in the workforce, and what 
barriers do they face as a result of long-term symptoms? What 
might Mr. James be experiencing?
    Ms. Thompson. Thank you, Congresswoman Pressley. I want to 
start off and say that in July 2021, the Biden Administration 
released a guidance package announcing that long COVID may be a 
disability under the ADA. Thus, under the ADA, it requires that 
employers make reasonable accommodations for disabled people. 
However, the standard has not been a smooth transition for 
those with long COVID because employers haven't or won't make 
certain adjustments requested or because some individuals may 
not be able to continue in the position due to the illness.
    Some of the accommodation that can be worked is allowing 
people to work from home, which offers flexibility around 
schedules, adjusting work styles and dress codes, which is 
easier for COVID long-haulers, and be able to sit or to stand 
in case someone works in a shop, have an office nap room, a 
quiet area for rest, storage areas for medications, temporary 
shift and responsibilities. We have even seen the Office of 
Disability Employment Policy release some helpful information 
for employers with long COVID and their employees as to how to 
provide these accommodations to make the processes much 
smoother.
    Ms. Pressley. Okay. Thank you. So, let us say Mr. James can 
no longer work and turns to our disability safety net in order 
to make ends meet by applying for Supplemental Security Income 
(SSI). Ms. Thompson, yes or no, would Mr. James be receiving 
enough from SSI to make ends meet in a district like mine or to 
live above the Federal poverty line?
    Ms. Thompson. No.
    Ms. Pressley. And would SSI allow Mr. James to have 
emergency savings, say, more than $2,000?
    Ms. Thompson. No, not with the current limit.
    Ms. Pressley. Okay. To be clear, Mr. James develops long 
COVID, his symptoms render him unable to work, and he accesses 
SSI but must now live below the poverty line due to asset caps 
that prohibit him from saving even a modest amount for 
emergencies, let alone to rent a safe and healthy home, because 
then his SSI benefits would be penalized. I agree with what Mr. 
Foley said earlier. People don't need to change, the systems 
do.
    And if Mr. James' disability requires him to move to a 
wheelchair-accessible home, Ms. Thompson, what are the 
challenges that Mr. James will face in trying to find an 
accessible home in today's housing market in, say, Cambridge, 
in my district?
    Ms. Thompson. As a fellow wheelchair user, I understand 
this issue completely. While the supply of affordable housing 
that is developed for individuals with families eligible for 
the Housing Choice Voucher Program affordable housing, the 
nation's main affordable housing assistance programs, is wholly 
inadequate, this is where it became worse for those of us due 
to how little affordable housing in the U.S. is accessible to 
disabled people. And what is left about a recourse with 
affordability and accessibility to housing and it being out of 
reach, disabled people make up roughly half of the people in 
this country who are forced to turn to homeless shelters that 
keep a roof over their head.
    Ms. Pressley. So, the system is fundamentally broken, and 
as you said earlier, Ms. Thompson, we need to legislate in a 
way that is intersectional.
    Ms. Thompson. Yes.
    Ms. Pressley. And the system is not going to change until 
we recognize that disability rights are human rights, that 
every policy is a disability policy. And it won't change until 
we legislate the healing and dignity that the disability 
community deserves.
    I want to request unanimous consent to submit into the 
record a report published today by the Center for American 
Progress, entitled, ``Removing Obstacles for Disabled 
Workers,'' which would strengthen the U.S. labor market. And 
finally, to those who are visually-impaired and blind, my 
apologies for not staying at the top of this. I am a Black 
woman with a bald head wearing a gray top and hoop earrings. 
Thank you.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Without objection, it is so ordered.
    And thank you so much, Congresswoman Pressley.
    The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Rose, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Rose. Tennessee, but we helped found Texas, so I will 
take credit for that, too. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty. And 
thank you Vice Ranking Member--
    Chairwoman Beatty. And thank you, Mr. Rose. I believe I did 
not say Tennessee, so that is Congressman Rose from Tennessee. 
Thank you.
    Mr. Rose. Right, I think you said, ``Texas.'' At least, 
that is what I heard, but I will take credit for Texas, too.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Okay. Thank you.
    Mr. Rose. As a proud Tennessean, we helped get them 
started. Thank you for holding this hearing, and as our time is 
limited, I want to dive right in.
    Ms. DiBartolo, you have a truly inspiring story, and I want 
to congratulate you on all of your success. I will note that 
there are always challenges for entrepreneurs, and I am sure 
from your vast experience, you know that. Your story is not 
unlike many starting entrepreneurs when they are trying to find 
capital, and I am sure you faced unique challenges, and I'm so 
very inspired by your story. The challenges that you faced, 
both as a starting entrepreneur and with a disability, the 
disabilities that you are working with, makes me think about 
the concerns I always have when we are burdening business and 
industry with new regulations. And so, I am interested in 
hearing from you because of your decades of experience on Wall 
Street. Are there any rules and regulations that could be, let 
us say, right-sized or tailored to allow firms like yours to 
flourish?
    Ms. DiBartolo. Thank you, Congressman. There are indeed 
changes that can be made and adopted in order to ensure that we 
not only foster disabled entrepreneurs and disabled businesses, 
but that we become more inclusive of a disabled workforce. And 
I think that really starts with disclosure of data both in the 
public and private sector, some sort of mandatory reporting, 
because one thing we know is that what does not get measured, 
does not get managed. And there is just a myriad of data that 
is cut all different ways in a non-uniform way, and it is not 
allowing us, either in the private or public sector, to 
leverage that data effectively so that we can make that change.
    One of the things that we have learned is that most 
disabilities are invisible disabilities. How often I have heard 
somebody say, ``You don't look disabled to me?'' Well, that is 
because the majority of disabilities contended with today are 
invisible. Guess what? So is the data, and that is something we 
need to change and change very quickly if we are to change the 
trajectory of the course of the disabled entrepreneur to allow 
disabled individuals to be included in the workforce and 
actually have prosperous, thriving careers.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you. And your answer, I think, leads me to 
my next comment and question. Millions of adults with 
disabilities often find themselves in a difficult predicament, 
and they are entitled to seek a reasonable accommodation from 
their employer, but many individuals refrain from disclosing 
their disabled status.
    And so, I have a question for Ms. Sullivan. Could you 
discuss why individuals may not disclose their particular 
disability when applying for jobs?
    Ms. Sullivan. Many advocates in the autism community share 
that they are worried about being discriminated against, so 
there is that barrier. They are worried they will be treated 
differently or not have the same opportunity as neurotypical 
workers. Our program is set up so that disclosure is there. We 
leverage voc rehab services, so the participant has to have a 
diagnosis of autism. We find that for our interns in the 
companies that we work with, this is helpful, because then they 
know how to accommodate and set up the interim for success, and 
that is helpful. I will also say that many of our participants, 
especially some of our early interns who now have full-time 
jobs, have really become advocates for the program and for 
neurodiversity in the workplace.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you. I see that my time is about to expire, 
Chairwoman Beatty, so I yield back.
    Chairwoman Beatty. If the gentleman from Tennessee would 
like an additional 20 seconds for my interruption, I will give 
it to him.
    Mr. Rose. That is quite all right. I am not sure I could do 
much more than ask a question that couldn't be answered. Thank 
you, though.
    Chairwoman Beatty. You are quite welcome. The gentleman 
from Massachusetts, Mr. Lynch, who is also the Chair of our 
Task Force on Financial Technology, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Lynch. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman, and I 
really appreciate the subject matter of this hearing.
    I think we all struggle with this in our districts, and I 
do particularly. Mr. Foley, I have a situation where I have 
some major housing developments, over 1,000 units in my 
district where we are starting to knock them down and rebuild 
them in a new and different way. And yet, it doesn't seem like 
there is an existing policy within our public housing 
authorities that prioritizes the ability of handicapped 
individuals to live in comfort and also have access to job 
training opportunities.
    We are trying this now, but it feels like a one-off. We are 
trying to do that. We are bringing in some job training firms, 
and some nonprofits to come in and try to work with our 
seniors. But to be honest with you, for a very long time I have 
had calls from handicapped individuals who have begged me to 
try to get them into first-floor units so they can have some 
level of mobility. And you wouldn't think that it would take an 
Act of Congress or an act of a Member of Congress to try to get 
a public housing authority to make that small accommodation.
    I know that you are a champion of the cause of handicapped 
individuals, and I wonder if you have seen this gap between 
what should be a real priority for our housing authorities to 
sort of link up that job training opportunity with these 
individual handicapped households--is that something that you 
see across-the-board, and is it improving at all?
    Mr. Foley. Thank you, Representative. First of all, I 
commend you for putting this program in place. Obviously, we 
have heard today about the lack of access to affordable 
accessible housing. We have definitely seen this issue across 
the country, a lack of housing plus a lack of employment 
opportunities, plus a lack of employment programs. You multiply 
three fractions, and you get a smaller number.
    But I think what you are describing provides an 
opportunity, almost a pilot to show what could be done, because 
we know in the end that people with disabilities want to work, 
can work, and once they do work, make excellent employees. And 
providing accessible, affordable, safe housing sort of provides 
that groundwork, that foundation to be able to look at 
employment in a whole new way.
    Mr. Lynch. Thank you. One of my local priority projects 
from the last Appropriations bill is 40 units of housing for 
people who are disabled by virtue of drug addiction. And I have 
found that in my district, the needs of that population are far 
different than someone who has a disability in terms of their 
mobility. They have to be on the first floor or handicap rents. 
And it has been a real struggle to try to make sure that we 
create housing for people with drug addiction but also make 
sure that the services are plugged in. We are trying to help 
women coming out of prison who might have custody of children. 
And I wonder if you are seeing any programs in other States 
that might be an example of that, from which we could borrow?
    Mr. Foley. Again, I applaud the effort to reach so many 
different types of people in the disability community. I think 
the old joke is if you have met one person with a disability, 
you have met one person with a disability. I am not the 
strongest expert on some of the programs, particularly around 
substance abuse, so I will yield my time if someone else could 
help out with that question.
    Mr. Lynch. I think my time has just about expired. I do 
appreciate it. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. This is a very 
important hearing, and I want to thank all of our witnesses for 
trying to help the committee with its work. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you, Mr. Lynch.
    The gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Timmons, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    [No response.]
    Chairwoman Beatty. Mr. Gonzalez, should I move on?
    Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Yes, I was just about to say I don't 
see Mr. Timmons, so feel free to move on.
    Chairwoman Beatty. And we will come back if he enters the 
screen.
    Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Okay.
    Chairwoman Beatty. The gentlewoman from Michigan, Ms. 
Tlaib, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, Chairwoman Beatty, for 
holding this really important hearing.
    As everyone testified, housing is foundational to many of 
our neighbors, particularly for many of our neighbors living 
with disabilities. As many of you have heard, I represent the 
48217 ZIP Code in Michigan's 13th Congressional District, which 
is one of the most polluted ZIP Codes in the entire country. It 
is sandwiched between one of the largest freeways and the only 
oil petroleum refinery in the State. The toxic air many of my 
residents breathe has directly contributed to much of the 
highest rates of cancer and asthma in the State, and for many 
of us, this is the definition of a frontline community. And 
over the past 3 decades, Madam Chairwoman, low-income Americans 
have become increasingly concentrated in poor neighborhoods 
like 48217.
    We know that individuals with disabilities experience 
greater levels of poverty, as we heard today, and lower levels 
of wealth than those without disabilities, requiring an average 
of an additional $17,000 per year to obtain the same standard 
of living as many of us. Meanwhile, individuals with 
disabilities are underemployed and underpaid, as, again, many 
have testified, which means that the devastating impacts of our 
housing affordability crisis are falling even heavier on those 
living with disabilities. For me, environmental justice is 
disability justice, and economic justice is disability justice.
    Ms. Cannington, when it comes to purchasing a home, many 
individuals with disabilities are underbanked or credit-
invisible. I know folks talked about capital and so forth, but 
really, is there anything that we could be doing on our end to 
improve the access to credit and opportunities to purchase a 
home and build wealth?
    Ms. Cannington. Thank you so much for this question, 
Congresswoman. I want to start, and say that rather than just 
look at income credit of the individual, can a mortgage company 
look at an individual story? For example, an individual may be 
someone who had a full-time job with a high salary and had an 
accident and now they are on SSDI. Does the mortgage company 
understand the person's story?
    SSI, SSDI is a stable income source, whether the person has 
a settlement agreement or other sources of down payment 
assistance. If the mortgage company is solely focused on 
employment income, getting a loan will be hard for, as we have 
made clear today, a disproportionate amount of people with 
disabilities who have other sources of income, although 
severely low, that may still be sufficient to help contribute 
to a mortgage. If an individual needs home modifications, there 
might be a separate grant or deferred payment loan making the 
loan from the mortgage company more affordable.
    I especially want to lift up the income, the importance of 
companies to understand the income and asset situation of many 
people with disabilities, but also that there is an opportunity 
for more people to use their housing choice vouchers for 
homeownership. It is rare that this happens, but HUD can 
incentivize public housing authorities to choose to include 
homeownership as an option in more areas. There are also 
homeownership models like limited equity co-ops that provide 
homeownership for low-income people, including people with 
disabilities, and HUD should be doing more to promote these 
models. And Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should be finding ways 
to incentivize banks and other lenders to finance these--
    Ms. Tlaib. No, I appreciate it. And that is so important, 
because much of our housing stock in my district is valued at 
less than $100,000 and requires a lot of repairs to be brought 
up to code. And one of the things that we did, and I know the 
chairwoman was a big supporter of this, is we introduced the 
Small Dollar Mortgage bill to really try to push our Federal 
Government to play a bigger role, because many of the 
traditional banks are not loaning to homes that are worth less 
than $100,000, because it is not profitable.
    So, many of our families are already facing many barriers 
to obtaining a small-dollar mortgage, let alone additional 
financing to actually repair it and make it safe and 
accessible. Do you have any recommendations? It sounds like 
they are getting there where we need to move towards that 
direction.
    But, Ms. Cannington, one of the things that I really want 
to look at is, how do we get our government to push and allow 
us because that is why they were created--FHA was created 
specifically for this--to push the small-dollar mortgages out, 
and especially prioritizing those living with disabilities?
    Ms. Cannington. Let me just say thank you, that, as the 
programs I mentioned before need more investment, need more 
prioritization, and HUD has taken leadership on increasing 
homeownership, but disability equity must be embedded within 
those solutions. And we need disabled people at the helm of HUD 
and other critical agencies to help make that happen. Thank 
you.
    Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you. Next, I recognize the 
gentlewoman from Texas, Ms. Garcia, whom I am also honored to 
share is the Vice Chair of this subcommittee. And you are now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Garcia of Texas. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And let 
me first thank you for having this hearing. I just find it 
incredibly heartening to see that you have had the foresight 
and just done this piece of diversity and inclusion because, 
quite frankly, I think when the average person thinks of 
diversity and inclusion, I think a lot of our witnesses are 
correct, they are forgotten or they are an afterthought. Thank 
you so much for doing this, and thank you to all of the 
witnesses and some of you for sharing your stories.
    Madam Chairwoman, I was a Legal Aid lawyer, the first job I 
ever had after law school, and I represented the Coalition for 
Barrier Free Living. This was in the 1980s. This is 2022, and 
we are still talking about the same issues. While it has been 
great to listen to it, I just cannot believe that so many of 
the things we are talking about are some of the same things 
that we talked about when I was at Legal Aid. And, Madam 
Chairwoman, the only case that I argued before the Fifth 
Circuit was an SSI asset case. Unfortunately, I lost. 
Obviously, the witnesses have told you that nothing has 
changed, so it is going to take a lot of work to make sure that 
we can make some significant changes. But I think what is 
important is that we have the opportunity to help so many 
people.
    And now with COVID long-haulers, I think it is particularly 
difficult because I know, Ms. Thompson, you were answering 
questions from Representative Pressley. I think the bigger 
issue is just getting on disability. I know the President acted 
with guidance to say that, yes, disability for COVID long-
haulers has to be a recognized disability. But tell me, how are 
we doing, because from what I read early on, our long-haulers 
were having a hard time making their cases, because disability 
has to be for the long term. It has to be for 12 months. How 
are we doing on that? Just a short answer, because I only have 
5 minutes.
    Ms. Thompson. The short answer is that we are not doing 
well at all with long-haulers and disabled people in general 
who have been seeking benefits for quite some time, that gap. 
And who is able to apply and when they are able to receive 
benefits is very wide due to the systemic roadblocks in 
applying and getting an answer for folks who are in need, and 
for some people, it comes too late.
    Ms. Garcia of Texas. Right. And, Mr. Foley, about 
accommodations, are we finding that employers are making 
reasonable accommodations for the fatigue, the headaches, and 
all of those symptoms that come with the long-haulers?
    Mr. Foley. I think in some cases, we are, but we have also 
heard many, many stories about lots of employers not being 
particularly accommodating to short or long COVID.
    Ms. Garcia of Texas. Right. This weekend, this Friday, when 
I was flying in from D.C., an article caught my eye, Madam 
Chairwoman, and I ask for unanimous consent to enter it into 
the record. It is entitled, ``Amazon Accused Of Discrimination 
Against Pregnant and Disabled Workers in New York.'' And the 
key point was that they are allegedly forcing pregnant workers 
and workers with disabilities to take an unpaid leave of 
absence rather than providing them with reasonable 
accommodations, according to the complaint. Is that common or 
are they the lone ranger? Mr. Foley?
    Mr. Foley. That is pretty common. I suspect that every 
witness today could point to a handful of stories that we have 
worked with or we have seen or we have heard about such levels 
of discrimination.
    Ms. Garcia of Texas. Ms. Thompson, can you add to that?
    Ms. Thompson. Yes, it is definitely not uncommon. And what 
we are seeing when it comes to COVID long-haulers is that they 
are experiencing the same issues as the other folks have 
experienced this entire time of just the lack of everything 
when it comes to accommodations, getting approval and so forth. 
What COVID long-haulers are really bringing forth are the 
complicated issues of other disabled people, getting the 
supports and services that they need and deserve.
    Ms. Garcia of Texas. Thank you. Disability Rights Texas, an 
organization that defends advances to strengthen the rights and 
opportunities of people with disabilities, has made it clear 
that housing is a right for all, including persons with 
disabilities, and I, of course, agree. In fact, I have a bill 
that I have introduced this Congress, H.R. 7123, the Studying 
Barriers to Homelessness Act, that would require the GAO to 
study the barriers to housing, even in housing assistance 
programs such as the public housing and Housing Choice Voucher 
Programs. So, I urge this committee to look at that, because 
obviously, when we look to barriers, we could certainly find 
ways to make it easier for people with disabilities who may 
seek assistance from these programs.
    Madam Chairwoman, I see my time is up. I may have a couple 
of questions I will submit in writing within the required days. 
Thank you, and I yield back.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you, Madam Vice Chairwoman. And 
without objection, your article is entered into the record.
    Chairwoman Beatty. The gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. 
Auchincloss, who is also the Vice Chair of the Full Committee, 
is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Auchincloss. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty, for yet 
another really substantive and helpful hearing. And I just want 
to let you know that I also fail to [inaudible] every single 
time, crosswalks, school buses, bicycles, can't do any of it, 
so I am with you.
    Ms. Sullivan, my first question is for you. It is about 
hidden workers. As you stated in your testimony, the high 
unemployment rate amongst the autistic community is not just a 
barrier to financial stability for them, but a missed 
opportunity for employers to find a great source of talent. I 
strongly agree with you, and it looks like the private sector 
is starting to catch up to that reality. A Harvard Business 
School study looked at the untapped talent of hidden workers, 
including people with physical disabilities and neurodiversity, 
and they offered some recommendations for including them in the 
talent development pipeline. One is by refreshing job 
descriptions, one is by shifting from negative to affirmative 
filters in an applicant tracking system or recruiting 
management or marketing system, and another is by adopting a 
customer experience mindset in how they design recruitment and 
onboarding processes.
    How can Congress partner with the private sector at a time 
when it feels like there is an inflection point because of how 
tight the labor market is, because of this academic research 
that is really highlighting the missed opportunities? It seems 
like there is an inflection point in the private sector. How 
can Congress partner with them to implement the recommendations 
that have been made?
    Ms. Sullivan. Thank you for the question, and that was a 
great report that Harvard did. I think what is interesting is 
some other studies that have been done, especially about 
autistic workers, is when a manager works with a job coach to 
help manage somebody with a disability, they always end up with 
higher scores in managing neurotypicals. Because a lot of 
times, we don't learn how to be a manager, and when you 
participate in programs like LiNC-IT, we are teaching the 
manager how to manage, which invariably makes them better 
managers for everybody. And the thing about the job description 
as well, especially people on the spectrum feel that they need 
to have every single box checked on a job description. That is 
why we go in and take a 3-page job description and boil it down 
to about 5 things. Women also have been studied, the same sort 
of issue with why are you putting all of these things in job 
descriptions that don't really have anything to do with the 
job? So, that is fair.
    From a legislative standpoint, I am not sure, because our 
success has been--it is a very individualized experience for 
employers. I think voc rehab could get more funding for things 
like outreach. We are just able to do it just because of the 
way the partnership happened in North Carolina, I think that is 
a barrier certainly for them in reaching out to more employers.
    Mr. Auchincloss. Ms. Sullivan, I would encourage you, if in 
your follow-on work there are areas where you see, and all of 
our witnesses, where you see that Congress can be a partner to 
the private sector in updating the recruitment, that you please 
liaise with my office because we are very interested in this 
issue.
    My second question is really for anybody who wants to weigh 
in. Mr. Foley, maybe I will start with you. I represent a 
district with a lot of different public transit options, 
although they have been under-invested in. One in particular, 
actually, in my hometown of Newton, Massachusetts, is a series 
of commuter rail stations, three of them, none of which are 
accessible for persons with disabilities, and all of which have 
significant housing stock being built near them. And we are 
working very hard to partner Federal, State, and local, to make 
the investments to upgrade them to be ADA-compliant. Mr. Foley, 
can you weigh in on the impact that non-ADA-compliant 
transportation modes have on the disability community's access 
to job services and opportunity?
    Mr. Foley. Absolutely, and thank you for the question. I 
have been quoting a study recently which highlights that 79 
percent of people who are visually impaired talk about 
transportation being their number-one barrier to employment. 
Obviously, if you can't get to a place of business, you are not 
going to be able to get that job, even with some of us being 
able to work from home now. Access to accessible, affordable 
transportation is probably the number-one ranked issue with 
regard to employment for many people with disabilities across 
the disability spectrum.
    Mr. Auchincloss. And, Mr. Foley, I apologize, I am going to 
have to cut you off because I am running out of time here. If 
you want to add anything else, we will take it for the record. 
But I would just echo and analogize to what you said about 
transportation to what Ms. Sullivan said about how managers who 
learn how to manage neuroatypical individuals become better 
managers. When we make transportation options accessible for 
everybody, regardless of ability, we make them better 
transportation options for all of the United States, period, 
and I would extend that even to how we design our cities. And 
it's a lesson that applies across--
    Chairwoman Beatty. I'm sorry. The gentleman's time is up.
    Mr. Auchincloss. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you so much for your testimony.
    I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter 
from the group, Disability:IN, supporting the Disability 
Disclosure Act of 2022.
    Without objection, it is so ordered.
    I also ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a 
statement from Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky, supporting her 
bill, H.R. 4695, the Eleanor Smith Inclusive Home Design Act.
    Without objection, it is so ordered.
    I would like to thank all of our witnesses for their 
testimony today. It has been very enlightening.
    The Chair notes that some Members may have additional 
questions for these witnesses, which they may wish to submit in 
writing. Without objection, the hearing record will remain open 
for 5 legislative days for Members to submit written questions 
to these witnesses and to place their responses in the record. 
Also, without objection, Members will have 5 legislative days 
to submit extraneous materials to the Chair for inclusion in 
the record.
    This hearing is now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 1:29 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                            A P P E N D I X

                             May 24, 2022 
                             
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