[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


     CONCEALED CARRY-ONS: CONFRONTING THE SURGE IN FIREARMS AT TSA 
                              CHECKPOINTS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                           TRANSPORTATION AND
                           MARITIME SECURITY

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                           FEBRUARY 15, 2022

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-44

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security
                                     

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
                                     

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                               __________
                               

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
47-517 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                                  
                             

                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

               Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi, Chairman
Sheila Jackson Lee, Texas            John Katko, New York
James R. Langevin, Rhode Island      Michael T. McCaul, Texas
Donald M. Payne, Jr., New Jersey     Clay Higgins, Louisiana
J. Luis Correa, California           Michael Guest, Mississippi
Elissa Slotkin, Michigan             Dan Bishop, North Carolina
Emanuel Cleaver, Missouri            Jefferson Van Drew, New Jersey
Al Green, Texas                      Ralph Norman, South Carolina
Yvette D. Clarke, New York           Mariannette Miller-Meeks, Iowa
Eric Swalwell, California            Diana Harshbarger, Tennessee
Dina Titus, Nevada                   Andrew S. Clyde, Georgia
Bonnie Watson Coleman, New Jersey    Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida
Kathleen M. Rice, New York           Jake LaTurner, Kansas
Val Butler Demings, Florida          Peter Meijer, Michigan
Nanette Diaz Barragan, California    Kat Cammack, Florida
Josh Gottheimer, New Jersey          August Pfluger, Texas
Elaine G. Luria, Virginia            Andrew R. Garbarino, New York
Tom Malinowski, New Jersey
Ritchie Torres, New York
                       Hope Goins, Staff Director
                 Daniel Kroese, Minority Staff Director
                          Natalie Nixon, Clerk
                                 ------                                

          SUBCOMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND MARITIME SECURITY

             Bonnie Watson Coleman, New Jersey, Chairwoman
Donald M. Payne, Jr., New Jersey     Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida, 
Dina Titus, Nevada                       Ranking Member
Josh Gottheimer, New Jersey          Jefferson Van Drew, New Jersey
Elaine G. Luria, Virginia            Ralph Norman, South Carolina
Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi (ex  Mariannette Miller-Meeks, Iowa
    officio)                         John Katko, New York (ex officio)
                Alex Marston, Subcomittee Staff Director
          Kathryn Maxwell, Minority Subcomittee Staff Director
                     Alice Hayes, Subcomittee Clerk
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               Statements

The Honorable Bonnie Watson Coleman, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of New Jersey, and Chairwoman, Subcommittee on 
  Transportation and Maritime Security:
  Oral Statement.................................................     1
  Prepared Statement.............................................     2
The Honorable Carlos A. Gimenez, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of Florida, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on 
  Transportation and Maritime Security:
  Oral Statement.................................................     3
  Prepared Statement.............................................     4
The Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of Mississippi, and Chairman, Committee on 
  Homeland Security:
  Prepared Statement.............................................     5

                               Witnesses

Mr. Balram Bheodari, General Manager, Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta 
  International Airport:
  Oral Statement.................................................     6
  Prepared Statement.............................................     7
Mr. Greg Regan, President, Transportation Trades Department, AFL-
  CIO:
  Oral Statement.................................................     8
  Prepared Statement.............................................    10
Mr. Jason Wallis, Chief of Police, Port of Portland:
  Oral Statement.................................................    13
  Prepared Statement.............................................    15
Mr. Ralph Cutie, Director and Chief Executive Officer, Miami 
  International Airport:
  Oral Statement.................................................    16
  Prepared Statement.............................................    18

 
     CONCEALED CARRY-ONS: CONFRONTING THE SURGE IN FIREARMS AT TSA 
                              CHECKPOINTS

                              ----------                              


                       Tuesday, February 15, 2022

             U.S. House of Representatives,
                    Committee on Homeland Security,
                            Subcommittee on Transportation 
                                     and Maritime Security,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:02 p.m., via 
Webex, Hon. Bonnie Watson Coleman [Chairwoman of the 
subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Watson Coleman, Payne, Titus, 
Gimenez, and Miller-Meeks.
    Also present: Representative Jackson Lee.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. The Subcommittee on 
Transportation and Maritime Security will come to order for 
today's hearing titled, ``Concealed Carry-ons: Confronting the 
Surge in Firearms in TSA Checkpoints.'' Without objection, the 
Chair is authorized to declare the subcommittee in recess at 
any point.
    Thank you to our witnesses for joining us today to discuss 
the surging number of firearms at TSA checkpoints. 
Unfortunately, this topic could not be more timely. Last year, 
TSA caught nearly 6,000 firearms at checkpoints Nation-wide. A 
new and unprecedented record. That is an average of 16 guns 
that TSA prevented from boarding a plane each day. Most 
disturbingly, 86 percent of those guns were loaded.
    In 2020, TSA caught 10 firearms per million passengers 
screened, compared to 5 per million in 2019. On a per-passenger 
basis, that is a 100 percent increase in just 1 year. The good 
news is that TSA has a talented work force and top-notch 
technologies that are keeping us safe. But the bad news is that 
it only takes a single gun slipping through for tragedy to 
ensure--ensue--I am sorry. The deadly consequences of a 
hijacker bringing a loaded firearm on a plane are not difficult 
to imagine.
    Even when TSA successfully interdicts a weapon, 
transportation workers and the traveling public face dangers. 
Just a few months ago in Atlanta, a passenger accidently 
discharged his firearm at a checkpoint, resulting in chaos, 
injuries, and flight delays. Of course, we cannot forget the 
horrific incidences involving gunmen deliberately targeting 
airports.
    We honor the memory of Gerardo Hernandez, who was a TSO in 
Los Angeles, who was shot for simply doing his job and died in 
the line of duty. We also remember 5 people who were killed 
standing at a baggage claim in Fort Lauderdale. This status quo 
is simply unacceptable. The increase in unruly passenger 
incidents alongside the increase in firearms injected into the 
aviation environment make for a toxic combination. We need to 
explore a range of solutions to keep guns off planes and away 
from the TSA checkpoints.
    An important piece of this conversation is raising 
awareness of the laws on the books. Responsible firearm owners 
follow the law. They know that if you want to fly with a 
firearm, you can declare it to the airline and ship it in your 
checked baggage. Yet time and again when TSA catches passengers 
with guns in their carry-on, most passengers say they forget 
their gun was even in their bag. In those cases, TSA and 
airports can play an important role in educating passengers. 
Prominent and consistent signage and expanded public awareness 
campaigns can very well ensure everyone knows the rules and 
that responsible firearm owners will follow established 
procedures.
    TSA can and should also explore steps to increase 
deterrence. To that end, I am looking forward to hearing our 
witnesses' thoughts on the sufficiency of the current fines, 
the PreCheck suspensions, and other consequences TSA imposes on 
passengers bringing firearms to checkpoints. Bringing a firearm 
to a checkpoint is a Federal crime. If you intend to bring a 
gun on a plane, you can go to prison for it. But intent is very 
hard for prosecutors to prove, which is why it is so important 
that TSA use the regulatory tools at its disposal to make 
passengers think twice before packing that weapon in their 
carry-on.
    This should not be a partisan issue. This is not about gun 
control, but about aviation security. We must all stand 
together in support of keeping loaded pistols off planes. TSA 
has an impressive record of catching firearms, but we have gone 
from approximately 1,000 firearms found at checkpoints in 2010 
to nearly 6,000 last year. This is a six-fold increase in 
little more than a decade. If and when something unthinkable 
happens, we can hardly act surprised. It simply should not take 
a tragedy, whether it is a hijacking or an accidental discharge 
that claims a life, to trigger action.
    I stand ready to work with my colleagues on both sides of 
the aisle, and for witnesses today to keep our aviation system 
secure. Our panel brings important perspectives to this 
conversation. The surge in firearms at TSA checkpoints disrupts 
airport operations, endangers the front-line work force and 
travelers, and diverts law enforcement resources from where 
they are needed. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses 
on how we can all work together to solve this challenge.
    [The statement of Chairwoman Watson Coleman follows:]
             Statement of Chairwoman Bonnie Watson Coleman
    Thank you to our witnesses for joining us today to discuss the 
surging number of firearms at TSA checkpoints. Unfortunately, this 
topic could not be more timely.
    Last year, TSA caught nearly 6,000 firearms at checkpoints Nation-
wide--a new and unprecedented record. That's an average of 16 guns that 
TSA prevented from boarding a plane each day. Most disturbingly, 86 
percent of these guns were loaded.
    In 2020, TSA caught 10 firearms per million passengers screened, 
compared to 5 per million in 2019. On a per-passenger basis, that's a 
100 percent increase in just 1 year.
    The good news is that TSA has a talented workforce and top-notch 
technologies that are keeping us safe. But the bad news is that it only 
takes a single gun slipping through for tragedy to ensue. The deadly 
consequences of a hijacker bringing a loaded firearm on a plane are not 
difficult to imagine.
    Even when TSA successfully interdicts a weapon, transportation 
workers and the traveling public face dangers. Just a few months ago in 
Atlanta, a passenger accidentally discharged his firearm at a 
checkpoint--resulting in chaos, injuries, and flight delays.
    And of course, we cannot forget the horrific incidents involving 
gunmen deliberately targeting airports.
    We honor the memory of Gerardo Hernandez, a TSO in Los Angeles who 
was shot for simply doing his job and died in the line of duty. We also 
remember the 5 people who were killed standing at a baggage claim in 
Fort Lauderdale.
    The status quo is simply unacceptable. The increase in unruly 
passenger incidents alongside the increase in firearms injected into 
the aviation environment make for a toxic combination. We need to 
explore a range of solutions to keep guns off planes and away from TSA 
checkpoints.
    An important piece of this conversation is raising awareness of the 
laws on the books. Responsible firearm owners follow the law. They know 
that if you want to fly with a firearm, you can declare it to the 
airline and ship it in your checked baggage.
    Yet time and time again, when TSA catches passengers with guns in 
their carry-on, most passengers say they forgot their gun was in their 
bag.
    In those cases, TSA and airports can play an important role in 
educating passengers. Prominent and consistent signage--and expanded 
public awareness campaigns--can ensure everyone knows the rules, and 
that responsible firearm owners follow established procedures.
    TSA can and should also explore steps to increase deterrence. To 
that end, I am looking forward to hearing our witnesses' thoughts on 
the sufficiency of the current fines, PreCheck suspensions, and other 
consequences TSA imposes on passengers bringing firearms to 
checkpoints.
    Bringing a firearm to a checkpoint is a Federal crime. If you 
intend to bring a gun on a plane, you can go to prison for it. But 
intent is very hard for prosecutors to prove, which is why it is so 
important that TSA use the regulatory tools at its disposal to make 
passengers think twice before packing that weapon in their carry-on.
    This should not be a partisan issue. This is not about gun control, 
but about aviation security. We must all stand together in support of 
keeping loaded pistols off planes.
    TSA has an impressive record of catching firearms, but we have gone 
from approximately 1,000 firearms found at checkpoints in 2010 to 
nearly 6,000 last year. That is a six-fold increase in little more than 
a decade. If and when something unthinkable happens, we can hardly act 
surprised.
    And it simply should not take a tragedy--whether it's a hijacking 
or an accidental discharge that claims a life--to trigger action.
    I stand ready to work with my colleagues on both sides of the 
aisle, and our witnesses today, to keep our aviation system secure.
    Our panel brings important perspectives to this conversation. The 
surge in firearms at TSA checkpoints disrupts airport operations, 
endangers the front-line workforce and travelers, and diverts law 
enforcement resources from where they are needed. I look forward to 
hearing from our witnesses on how we can all work together to solve 
this challenge.
    With that, I now recognize the Ranking Member of the subcommittee, 
the gentleman from Florida, for an opening statement.

    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. With that, I now recognize the 
Ranking Member of our subcommittee, the gentleman from Florida, 
for an opening statement, Mr. Gimenez.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you. Thank you so much, Chairwoman 
Watson Coleman, for holding this hearing today.
    There has been a concerning rise in the number of firearms 
that TSA officers have found in airport security checkpoints 
Nation-wide. As we saw recently at the Atlanta airport, a 
passenger with a firearm accidently discharged their gun at the 
checkpoint, injuring other travelers and creating mass chaos 
and confusion at the terminal. Passengers evacuated onto the 
tarmac. Flight arrivals and departures were grounded and the 
individual who fired the weapon was able to escape the airport 
and remain on the run for over a week.
    I look forward to hearing from the witnesses today on how a 
security incident like the one in Atlanta can be prevented in 
the future. It is important for us to learn so that we can and 
must improve the airport, TSA, and law enforcement responses. 
The recent incident in Atlanta and overall rise in the number 
of discovered firearms Nationally highlights the constantly-
evolving threat to our aviation system. I agree with our 
Chairwoman this is not a gun control issue. This is an 
education issue. You know, we need to work, both sides need to 
work, to try to prevent this to make our airports safer.
    TSA must ensure that its work force has what it needs in 
next generation computed tomography technology to accurately 
find firearms and other prohibited items in carry-on bags. TSA 
cannot continue to delay and slow walk this needed investment 
in airport checkpoints Nation-wide. Our dedicated 
transportation security officers continue to protect the 
traveling public day in and day out. They deserve better pay 
that is reflective of the immense value that they provide to 
our aviation system.
    I thank all the witnesses for being here today, especially 
Ralph Cutie from Miami Dade County who runs my home airport, 
Miami International Airport. Pre-pandemic, the airport saw over 
47 million passengers annually. I look forward to our business 
and international travel resuming to the 2019 levels in the 
very near future. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I yield back 
the balance of my time.
    [The statement of Ranking Member Gimenez follows:]
               Statement of Ranking Member Carlos Gimenez
    Thank you, Chairwoman Watson Coleman, for holding this hearing 
today.
    There has been a concerning rise in the number of firearms that TSA 
officers have found at airport security checkpoints Nation-wide. As we 
saw recently at the Atlanta airport, a passenger with a firearm 
accidently discharged their gun at the checkpoint, injuring other 
travelers and creating mass chaos and confusion in the terminal. 
Passengers evacuated onto the tarmac, flight arrivals and departures 
were grounded, and the individual who fired the weapon was able to 
escape the airport and remain on the run for over a week. I look 
forward to hearing from the witnesses today on how a security incident 
like the one in Atlanta can be prevented in the future. It is important 
for us to learn what can and must be improved in the airport, TSA, and 
law enforcement responses.
    The recent incident in Atlanta and overall rise in the number of 
discovered firearms Nationally highlights the constantly-evolving 
threat to our aviation system. TSA must ensure that its workforce has 
what it needs in next-generation Computed Tomography technology to 
accurately find firearms and other prohibited items in carry-on bags. 
TSA cannot continue to delay and slow-walk this needed investment to 
airport checkpoints Nation-wide.
    Our dedicated Transportation Security Officers continue protect the 
traveling public, day in and day out. They deserve better pay that is 
reflective of the immense value they provide to our aviation system.
    I thank all the witnesses for being here today, especially Ralph 
Cutie, who runs my home airport of Miami. Pre-pandemic, the airport saw 
over 47 million passengers annually and I look forward to our business 
and international travel resuming to 2019 levels in the very near 
future.
    Thank you, Madame Chairwoman, and I yield back the balance of my 
time.

    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you very much, Ranking 
Member Gimenez. The Chair would recognize the Chairman of the 
committee, Mr. Thompson, if he is on? Not seeing Mr. Thompson, 
we recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Katko, if he is on? Not 
seeing Mr. Katko. Members are reminded that the committee will 
operate according to the guidelines laid out by the Chairman 
and the Ranking Member in their February 3, 2021, colloquy 
regarding remote procedures. Additional Member statements may 
be provided for the record.
    [The statement of Chairman Thompson follows:]
                Statement of Chairman Bennie G. Thompson
    Thank you to Chairwoman Watson Coleman and Ranking Member Gimenez 
for holding this hearing today, and to each of our witnesses for 
sharing their expertise.
    As front-line workers have put their health and lives on the line 
to protect our Nation during a global pandemic, it is our duty to 
ensure their safety from gun violence.
    Even with significantly lower passenger volume due to the COVID-19 
pandemic, TSA detected twice as many firearms per passenger screened at 
security checkpoints in 2020 compared to 2019.
    These numbers continued to rise as Americans resumed traveling 
more, with nearly 6,000 firearms found in 2021. That is a shocking and 
alarming rise in dangerous weapons found at airports across the Nation.
    While most passengers may have brought their firearm accidentally, 
these weapons nevertheless present a very real danger to transportation 
security officers, the traveling public, and our transportation system. 
Consistently, more than 80 percent of firearms found have been loaded.
    At best, the presence of so many undeclared, unsecured guns creates 
serious disruptions at security checkpoints. At worst, these firearms 
could prove incredibly dangerous.
    Just last November, at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport--
where I travel through regularly--a firearm was accidentally discharged 
during screening.
    Thankfully, no one was hit with a bullet, but the incident created 
chaos throughout the terminal and exemplified the risks posed by the 
presence of so many guns at TSA checkpoints.
    I am a hunter myself, and I recognize the right gun owners have to 
transport firearms. But passengers who wish to travel with a firearm 
must follow proper procedures for transporting them unloaded and locked 
away in their checked baggage.
    Congress and TSA must do everything possible to make gun owners 
aware of the legal ways to transport firearms and deter them from 
bringing firearms to screening checkpoints.
    We must all work together to curb the rise in firearm incidents, or 
there could be deadly consequences.
    I look forward to learning more about actions Congress can take to 
reverse the dangerous rise in firearms at TSA checkpoints and ensure 
American passengers leave their firearms at home when they fly.

    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. I now welcome our panel of 
witnesses. Our first witness is Mr. Balram Bheodari. I do hope 
I did not bastardize that name. Please correct me when you get 
a chance to speak. Mr. Bheodari is the general manager of the 
Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. Previously, 
he was the chief operating officer for the Houston airport 
system, and he has served with distinction for 22 years in the 
U.S. Army. Thank you for your service, sir.
    Next, we have Mr. Greg Regan who serves as president of the 
Transportation Trades Department of the AFL-CIO, a labor 
organization consisting of 33 unions across the transportation 
sector. Included among TTD's members are transportation and 
security officers, flight attendants, pilots, ticket agents, 
and other transportation workers. Mr. Regan previously served 
as TTD's secretary treasurer.
    I would also like to welcome Mr. Jason Wallis, the 
president of ALEAN, the Airport Law Enforcement Agencies 
Network. He also serves as the chief of police for the Port of 
Portland, Oregon, where he has worked to secure Portland 
International Airport for over 2 decades.
    Finally, we will hear from Mr. Ralph Cutie. I hope I didn't 
mess that up too badly either. The director and chief executive 
officer of the Miami-Dade Aviation Department, where he has 
also served in a variety of other senior roles.
    Without objection, the witnesses' full statements will be 
inserted in the record. I now recognize each witness to 
summarize his or her statement for 5 minutes, beginning with 
Mr. Bheodari.

   STATEMENT OF BALRAM BHEODARI, GENERAL MANAGER, HARTSFIELD-
             JACKSON ATLANTA INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT

    Mr. Bheodari. Good afternoon, Chairman Watson Coleman, 
Ranking Member Gimenez, Members of the subcommittee, Chairman 
Thompson, Ranking Member Katko, and Members of the full 
committee. Thank you for inviting me to speak today about this 
especially important issue. We appreciate the committee's 
support of Atlanta airport and your commitment to airport 
safety.
    I am Balram Bheodari, general manager at Hartsfield-Jackson 
Atlanta International Airport, known as ATL. On behalf of Mayor 
Andre Dickens, I am honored to appear before this subcommittee 
to provide our perspective on reducing the number of firearms 
at our screening checkpoints.
    The team at ATL knows first-hand just how serious this 
issue is. On Saturday, November 20, 2021, a passenger presented 
his carry-on bag for inspection at the main domestic security 
checkpoint. When his bag was selected for secondary screening, 
he reached into the bag and grabbed his weapon. The weapon 
discharged once. Passengers at the security queue 
understandably ran for cover. Social media posts described 
multiple gunshots and an active shooter. That was not the case.
    Our law enforcement team responded immediately and very 
quickly secured the scene. Our response and ability to return 
operations to normal in a timely manner speaks volumes about 
ATL preparedness. However, it also reenforces the challenges 
posed by the increased presence of weapons at security 
screening locations.
    In 2019, more than 824 million passengers were screened 
Nation-wide, and 4,400 weapons were found at TSA checkpoints 
that year. However, in 2021, TSA screened 585 million 
passengers and discovered a whopping 5,972 firearms at 
checkpoints. Some 86 percent of those guns were loaded. Five 
hundred seven of those guns were discovered in Atlanta in 2021.
    Clearly, this is an issue that needs to be addressed 
Nation-wide. Why are so many guns retrieved at our checkpoints? 
The first answer reflects a bit of good news. It highlights the 
exceptional work of our dedicated TSA officers. It is their job 
to ensure the safety of the flying public, and through their 
diligence and advances in screening technology, they are doing 
precisely that.
    The increase in firearms at checkpoints is a function of an 
individual gun owner's lack of responsibility be it 
forgetfulness or a misguided belief that weapons will not be 
discovered. We must continue to inform and educate the public 
about firearms rules and regulations.
    In collaboration, we at ATL have take substantial steps to 
bring attention to this issue. Partnering with the airlines and 
security and law enforcement agencies at the local, State, and 
Federal levels, we have amplified our messaging to increase 
public awareness that includes training our staff with 
appropriate instructions to passenger in queue and installing 
dynamic and static signage with increased message frequency. We 
also have shared gun restriction messaging with share ride 
operators and local media outlets to remind passengers that 
guns are not allowed at airport checkpoints.
    What more can we do? There are 4 elements we recommend for 
further exploration. First, strengthen the penalty of violators 
by reviewing the existing fine structure. Next, have violators 
attend mandatory gun safety training. Third, consider the 
options of including violators on the No-Fly list until 
training is complete. Finally, assess the possible suspension 
of trusted travel privilege for violators.
    In partnership, we are consistently examining ways to 
inform and educate and focus intently on reducing firearms 
brought to ATL's screening checkpoints. Again, we appreciate 
the subcommittee attention to this issue and your commitment to 
improving the safety of our Nation's airports. Thank you for 
your time.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Bheodari follows:]
                 Prepared Statement of Balram Bheodari
                           February 15, 2022
    Chairwoman Coleman, Ranking Member Gimenez, Members of the 
subcommittee, Chairman Thompson, Ranking Member Katko, and Members of 
the full committee, thank you for inviting me to speak today about this 
especially important issue. We appreciate the committee's support of 
Atlanta's airport and your commitment to airport safety.
    I am Balram Bheodari, general manager at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta 
International Airport (ATL). On behalf of Atlanta Mayor Andre Dickens, 
I am honored to appear before this subcommittee to provide ATL's 
perspective on reducing the number of firearms at our screening 
checkpoints.
    The team at ATL knows first-hand just how serious this issue is.
    On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 1:22 p.m., a passenger presented 
his carry-on bag for inspection at the Main Domestic Security 
Checkpoint. His bag was selected for secondary screening, and during 
that process, he reached into the bag and grabbed his weapon. The 
weapon discharged--once--and passengers in the security queue 
understandably ran for cover. Social media posts of the incident began 
almost instantaneously, some of them describing multiple gunshots and 
an active shooter at the airport.
    That was not the case.
    Our law enforcement team responded immediately, and very quickly 
secured the scene. Our response to this incident and our ability to 
return operations to normal in a timely manner speaks volumes about 
ATL's preparedness. However, it also reinforces the challenges posed by 
the increased presence of weapons at security screening locations.
    In 2019, more than 824 million passengers were screened Nation-
wide, and 4,400 weapons were found at TSA checkpoints that year.
    However, in 2021, TSA officers screened 585 million passengers and 
discovered 5,972 firearms at checkpoints. Some 86 percent of those guns 
were loaded.
    Clearly, this is an issue that needs to be addressed Nation-wide.
    The question must be asked--why are so many guns retrieved at our 
checkpoints? The first answer reflects a bit of good news. It 
highlights the exceptional work of our dedicated TSA officers. It is 
their job to ensure the safety of the flying public, and--through their 
diligence and advances in screening technology--they are doing 
precisely that.
    We contend that the increase in firearm confiscation is a function 
of an individual gun owner's lack of responsibility. Be it 
forgetfulness or a misguided belief that weapons will not be 
discovered. We must continue to inform and educate the public about 
applicable firearm rules and regulations.
    In collaboration, we at ATL have taken substantial steps to bring 
attention to this issue.
   We have partnered with airlines and with security and law 
        enforcement agencies at the local, State, and Federal levels to 
        expand messaging and increase public awareness.
   We have expanded our own messaging in three different 
        channels:
   First, staff have been trained on the growing issue of guns 
        at checkpoints. Their scripted message to passengers in queue 
        has been modified to include this reminder: ``Please check your 
        bag for any firearms.''
   Next, we have incorporated dynamic and static signage with 
        increased message frequency.
   And finally, we have shared gun restriction messaging with 
        rideshare operators and local media outlets, reminding 
        passengers that guns are not allowed at airport checkpoints.
    What more can be done?
    There are 4 elements we recommend for further exploration:
   First, strengthen the penalties for violators by reviewing 
        the existing fine structure.
   Next, have violators attend mandatory gun safety training.
   Third, consider the option of including violators on the 
        ``No Fly'' list until training is complete.
   And finally, assess the possible suspension of trusted 
        travel privileges for violators.
    In partnership, we are consistently examining ways to inform and 
educate, and focus intently on reducing firearms brought to ATL's 
screening checkpoints. We appreciate the subcommittee's attention to 
this issue and your commitment to improving the safety of our Nation's 
airports.
    Thank you for your time.

    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you, Mr. Bheodari. Thank 
you for your thoughtful recommendations that we will take under 
consideration. We would now like to recognize Mr. Regan to 
summarize his statement for 5 minutes.

   STATEMENT OF GREG REGAN, PRESIDENT, TRANSPORTATION TRADES 
                      DEPARTMENT, AFL-CIO

    Mr. Regan. Thank you and good afternoon Chair Watson 
Coleman and Ranking Member Gimenez. Thank you for inviting me 
to testify on the alarming increase in firearms confiscated at 
TSA security checkpoints.
    I speak on behalf of 36 unions who represent America's 
front-line transportation work force. Many of those unions 
represent passenger-facing workers across the entire aviation 
sector, including pilots, flight attendants, passenger service 
agents, and most critical for today's hearing, transportation 
security officers who are responsible for ensuring the safety 
and security of our entire aviation system.
    This hearing could not come at a more important time, both 
for the health and safety of front-line aviation workers and 
for the general public on-board aircraft and on the ground. As 
this committee is well aware, COVID has driven tension in 
airports and aboard airplanes to an all-time high. In 2021, the 
FAA reported a record 5,981 incidents of unruly passenger 
behavior. This behavior has been directed at TSOs themselves, 
as well as passenger service agents, flight crew, and other 
airline and airport workers. In many cases, these employees 
have been physically assaulted resulting in broken bones, lost 
teeth, and long-term injuries that have often prevented them 
from returning to work.
    While this behavior is absolutely unacceptable on its own 
and Congress and the administration must do more to protect 
these employees, it is paramount that the current crisis of 
assaults does not escalate even further to the point of gun 
violence. As the Chair mentioned earlier, right now 
demonstrates just how real this threat is with 6,000 guns 
confiscated over the last year at security checkpoints. Eighty-
six percent of those were loaded and many of them had a round 
in the chamber. That broke the previous confiscation record set 
in 2019 by approximately 1,500 weapons. It came at a time when 
domestic travel was still below what it was at pre-pandemic 
levels.
    This spike in confiscated firearms underscores the 
essential role of TSOs in maintaining aviation safety. We 
support efforts by local law enforcement, airport authorities, 
and the Federal Government to remind passengers of their legal 
obligations concerning their firearms. But it ultimately falls 
on the shoulders of TSOs to identify and confiscate weapons at 
these checkpoints.
    There is no action response or antidote to the current 
surge in illegal passenger-carried firearms more effective than 
a well-trained and well-treated TSO work force. To ensure we 
meet this goal, TTD and our affiliated unions make the 
following recommendations. First, we call for the passage of 
the Transportation Security Administration Workforce Act of 
2021, which would put TSOs on equal footing with other Federal 
employees by providing workplace rights and protections under 
Title 5, access to the Merit Systems Protection Board, and GS 
pay scale with regular step increases.
    TSOs currently report the second-lowest job satisfaction of 
any DHS subagency. Only 32 percent of TSOs are satisfied with 
their pay rate. Providing these critical security employees 
with basic Federal work force protections and a fair pay scale 
are important first steps toward improving morale, decreasing 
turnover rates, and strengthening our security work force. I 
want to thank the full committee Chairman Thompson for his 
long-standing leadership on this important bill and to those of 
you who are among the 227 bipartisan cosponsors during this 
Congress.
    Congress must also ensure that TSA has the resources it 
needs to carry out its mission. That is why we call for passage 
of the FASTER Act, which would prevent the continued diversion 
of aviation security fee revenue for non-security purposes, and 
instead, ensure that these funds are used as intended, to 
strengthen the operational capabilities of TSA and its work 
force.
    At the same time, Congress and TSA must not take steps 
backward. Efforts to privatize the TSA and hand over 
fundamentally Governmental duties to private operators is not a 
security-first solution. TSA was created after 9/11 when 
Congress and security experts alike recognized that the 
existing hodgepodge of private screening operations throughout 
the country created vulnerabilities in our system. 
Privatization efforts willfully ignore the painful lessons 
learned over 20 years ago.
    We are also deeply concerned that TSA's recent announcement 
that it will introduce non-certified ``security support 
assistance'' into the security checkpoint may have the opposite 
of the intended effect on security and situational awareness. 
Given the influx of firearms, the airport passenger screening 
work force must be at its most effective. Neither of those 
initiatives will contribute to this goal.
    Finally, as TSA considers how to respond to the spike in 
firearms and other security threats, we call on the agency to 
involve representatives of airline and airport employees in the 
safety and security process. TSA has not permitted 
representatives of these employees to serve as ``regulated 
parties'' in certain TSA proceedings denying the agency of 
critical information from the front lines.
    I, again, caution this committee not to take steps that 
undermine critical safety workers in this country, but to 
instead focus your efforts on providing TSOs with the training 
and the quality work environment that they need and deserve to 
protect themselves, other transportation workers, and the 
traveling public. Thank you and I look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Regan follows:]
                    Prepared Statement of Greg Regan
                           February 15, 2022
    On behalf of the Transportation Trades Department, AFL-CIO (TTD) 
and our 36 affiliated unions, I first want to thank Chairwoman Watson 
Coleman and Ranking Member Gimenez for inviting me to testify before 
the committee on this increasing threat to airport security. TTD member 
unions represent passenger-facing workers throughout the aviation 
environment, including pilots, flight attendants, passenger service 
agents, and Transportation Security Officers (TSOs). Our members rely 
on, and are responsible for enforcing, the protocol that passengers 
cannot access their firearms while in secure areas of the airport.
             guns at work: increased firearm confiscations
    As the committee is well aware, the TSA reported the confiscation 
of 5,972 guns at checkpoints in 2021, of which approximately 86 percent 
were loaded, and ``many of those had ammunition in the chamber.''\1\ 
This broke the previous confiscation record set in 2019 by 
approximately 1,500 weapons, and came at a time in which domestic 
enplanements are still below pre-pandemic levels. Given today's airport 
environment, in which assaults and interference against airport and 
airline staff are also at an all-time high, it is of the utmost 
importance that passengers are prevented from illicitly bringing 
firearms past TSA security checkpoints.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ https://www.wftv.com/news/local/orange-county/tsa-seizes-
record-number-guns-2021-oia-ranks-top-10/OHYXJNCOZVCIJG22JD2TDZJK24/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This spike in confiscated firearms underscores the essential role 
of Transportation Security Officers in maintaining aviation safety. 
While we certainly encourage efforts by local law enforcement, airport 
authorities, and the Federal Government to remind passengers of their 
legal obligations concerning their firearms, it ultimately falls on the 
shoulders of TSOs to identify and confiscate weapons at security 
checkpoints.
    To be clear: There is no action, response, or antidote to the 
current surge in illegal passenger-carried firearms more effective than 
a well-trained and well-treated TSO workforce. Troublingly, in 2020 
TSOs reported the second-lowest job satisfaction of any DHS subagency, 
and a meager 32 percent of TSOs reported satisfaction with their pay 
rate, compared to 67 percent of employees Government-wide.\2\ In 
combination with chronic understaffing, rampant misconduct and 
retaliation from TSA managers, and a wave of unruly and violent 
passengers, TSOs today are asked to make critical safety decisions in 
difficult circumstances. TTD concurs with Administrator Pekoske's view 
that the increase in confiscated firearms is likely correlated to 
increases in firearm ownership and purchases over the course of the 
pandemic, a phenomenon that the TSA has no control over.\3\ However, 
there are clear steps that the TSA and Congress can take to ensure that 
the TSO workforce is best prepared to respond to security threats at 
checkpoints, including the increased presence of firearms in carry-on 
baggage.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/dhs-2020-
fevs-agency-management-report_3.pdf.
    \3\ https://fortune.com/2022/01/13/airport-security-confiscated-
5700-firearms-2021-recordr/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   the need for congressional action
    First, we call on Congress to expeditiously pass the Rights for the 
TSA Workforce Act of 2021 (H.R. 903/S. 1856). Since the creation of the 
TSA, TSOs have been unfairly denied the same bargaining rights, pay, 
and benefits enjoyed by other Federal workers, including their 
colleagues at DHS. The legislation would put an end to this unjust two-
tier system by requiring the TSA to provide these workplace rights and 
protections under Title 5, granting TSOs access to the Merit Systems 
Protection Board, and would place TSOs on the general pay scale with 
regular step increases. These reforms would drastically improve working 
conditions, morale, and quality of life for TSOs, and are long overdue 
measures that would support the long-term health and success of the TSO 
workforce.
    We also call on Congress to pass the FASTER Act (H.R. 1813/S. 
2717). Since 2013, Congress has diverted billions of dollars in 
collected aviation security fees and spent these funds on items 
unrelated to aviation security. This committee has previously estimated 
that more than $19 billion will be diverted by 2027 if no preventive 
action is taken. The FASTER Act would end this raiding of security fee 
dollars and guarantee that collected revenue goes toward its intended 
purposes--to the TSA personnel, training, and equipment that the agency 
requires to carry out its safety mission. We thank Chairwoman Watson 
Coleman and Ranking Member Gimenez for your support of this 
legislation, as well as additional Members of the committee who have 
cosponsored the bill. TTD looks forward to working with you to identify 
a path to passage of the legislation.
                     steps backward threaten safety
    It is equally important that neither Congress nor the TSA pursue 
measures which hamper the TSO workforce and/or degrade airport 
security. To that end, we strongly oppose efforts to privatize the TSA 
and its security responsibilities. Following 9/11, the TSA was created 
and mandated the unified Federal agency to oversee security operations 
at our airports. Now, as we confront the clear danger presented by the 
wave of firearms showing up at airport security lines, the TSA remains 
the best-suited entity to carry out this mission. Efforts to privatize 
the TSA whole-cloth, or piecemeal through the creeping expansion of the 
Screening Partnership Program, or by turning over certain security 
duties to unqualified private contractors with minimal oversight are 
unequivocally steps backward that place the traveling public and 
aviation employees at greater risk.
    We thank Administrator Pekoske for his leadership in opposing one 
such scheme, the Registered Traveler Act of 2020, which he correctly 
noted ``would place the critical transportation and National security 
function of ensuring passengers are appropriately screened in the hands 
of private firms that are not directly accountable to the U.S. 
Government''.\4\ This legislation is not the first, nor will it be the 
last, effort to devolve critical Federal security roles to private for-
profit contractors, and we hope for the committee's support in 
rejecting similar efforts going forward.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ Pekoske Letter to Chairman Wicker, 5/18/2020.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TTD similarly urges caution with regards to any efforts that would 
replace screenings performed by the TSA with screenings performed under 
the auspices of different international standards or authorities. A 
passenger's ability to travel within the country while carrying 
dangerous goods, including weapons that the United States and the TSA 
have chosen to restrict or prohibit must not be contingent on differing 
requirements of other screening providers at international 
destinations.
    Unfortunately, the agency has also pursued initiatives that would 
degrade the quality of its own workforce and its ability to identify 
and act on security threats like the presence of a firearm. For 
example, the TSA recently announced that it is hiring Security Support 
Assistants (SSA), a newly-minted position, at 18 pilot airports across 
the country.\5\ Unlike TSOs, this position will not require 
certifications on equipment and security procedures, and, according to 
the posted job description, will perform tasks like providing 
assistance to superiors in the monitoring and flow of individuals 
through security check lanes, providing information and assistance to 
passengers, and moving checked baggage to and from X-ray conveyor 
systems. Despite a lack of certifications, SSAs will somehow also be 
responsible for ``taking appropriate steps to ensure all safety 
requirements are adhered to and suggest[ing] safety improvements as 
appropriate''.\6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ ATL, AUS, BOI, BOS, CVG, DEN, DTW, JFK, LIT, MSP, OAK, ORD, 
PDX, PHL, PHX, RSW, SEA, and SLC.
    \6\ USAJobs Posting Req #: ORD-22-000007-SSA-F, accessed 2/11/22.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It should be noted that the TSA has deliberately crafted these 
positions as an end-around to existing union representation, 
determining that although SSAs are tasked with duties currently 
performed by TSOs, they will not be part of the bargaining unit. 
Furthermore, while the SSA position is advertised as supplementary to 
existing TSOs, the net result of the presence of an SSA may be one less 
authorized full-time equivalent (FTE) position for primary screening 
functions carried out by a TSO, given existing limitations on the 
totality of FTE positions to carry out screening functions. It is 
difficult to imagine how a decrease in the ranks of certified and 
qualified TSOs is likely to increase safety.
    Additionally, a TSO's ability to rotate to other points on the 
security line is a key element in maintaining situational awareness at 
checkpoints. Being aware and alert is essential for optimal 
performance, such as ensuring that a firearm is identified and proper 
security protocols are implemented. However, because an SSA is non-
certified and they are not able to rotate into other positions, a TSO 
who would have rotated into those duties will not be able to do so. 
Decreased ability for rotation along the line may ultimately lead to 
less-alert TSOs at the most crucial points of the screening process. In 
light of these concerns, we call on the TSA to reconsider the SSA 
program.
    We must ensure that the TSA workforce has the tools it needs to 
succeed, both in the long-term and in the immediate future. In 2021, 
the FAA reported a record 5,981 incidents of unruly passenger 
behavior.\7\ This behavior has been directed at TSOs themselves, as 
well as passenger service agents, flight crew, and other airline and 
airport workers. In many cases, these employees have been physically 
assaulted, resulting in broken bones, knocked-out teeth, and long-term 
injuries that have prevented a return to work. This behavior is 
unacceptable, and TTD and our affiliates have called for more effective 
actions from Congress and the Federal Government. We continue to demand 
that all available avenues are pursued to protect the employees that we 
represent from workplace violence and unruly behavior.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \7\ https://www.faa.gov/data_research/passengers_cargo/
unruly_passengers/2021_ar- chive/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    With that in mind, the incursion of firearms into the powder keg 
that is the current airport ecosystem could have deadly consequences 
for both employees and passengers. The TSA and its workforce should be 
commended for its efforts to date, and the 5,972 firearms it 
confiscated last year. However, if the ability and readiness of the TSA 
workforce is threatened or degraded, there is increased possibility of 
a firearm slipping through a checkpoint and ending up in the hands of 
an unruly passenger wishing to do harm to employees or other 
passengers. We are grateful that such an event has not yet occurred, 
but it is incumbent on Congress and the TSA to take actions as 
described here to further mitigate the likelihood of an incident 
involving a firearm.
    In order to ensure that personnel are best-prepared to prevent 
future security incidents, including those involving firearms, it is 
necessary for TSA, or for Congress by statute, to ensure equity with 
regard to so-called regulated parties. The TSA has opaquely allowed 
these regulated parties access to security proposals for the purpose of 
inclusion and comment, including security directives, alterations to 
standard security programs, and changes to policy and rules. This 
division hamstrings our ability to participate in the process, 
understand the potential for upcoming changes to aviation security 
which directly affect our members, and to help provide critical 
security input to help best shape policy and advocate for creative 
security solutions. The TSA's exclusion of labor parties has created an 
inequity in information and participation. Currently, regulated party 
status has only been provided to carriers, airports, and other entities 
with an, at times, narrow focus on economic matters. The rationale is 
that these parties are ``regulated'' by the agency. However, this 
argument is undermined by TSA's decision to permit certain industry 
trade associations to have access and participate. We call on TSA to 
reverse course, and permit labor representatives of these employees, 
who have a great stake in airport and airline safety, to receive 
regulated party status.
    We thank the committee for the opportunity to testify today about 
the serious aviation security concerns raised by a spike in firearm 
confiscations, and we look forward to working with you to ensuring the 
continued security of our Nation's airports.

    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you, Mr. Regan, for your 
very considerate advocacy and testimony. Be assured that we 
recognize the importance of our TSO employees and the fact that 
they do deserve respect and decent pay and protection and 
opportunity. So, thank you very much. The Chair now recognizes 
Mr. Wallis to summarize his statement for 5 minutes.

  STATEMENT OF JASON WALLIS, CHIEF OF POLICE, PORT OF PORTLAND

    Mr. Wallis. Thank you and let me apologize for the 
construction that is surrounding me today. So, Chairwoman 
Watson Coleman, Ranking Member Gimenez, and Members of the 
subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you 
today about the issue of firearms at the TSA checkpoints and 
the impacts on airport law enforcement.
    I am the chief of police of the Portland International 
Airport and the president of ALEAN, Aviation Law Enforcement 
Agencies Network. I have been in law enforcement for 26 years 
and I have been the chief here at the port for the past 7 
years. PDX is the largest commercial airport in Oregon and 
Southwest Washington. My No. 1 priority is to ensure the safety 
of everyone who utilizes airport facilities.
    ALEAN has over 100-member airport police departments 
located at the Nation's largest airports. ALEAN supports 
airport police with annual training conferences and broad 
engagement on issues of civil aviation security.
    The National growth in passengers over the past decade also 
came with an increase in the number of firearms at the TSA 
security checkpoints. In 2011, TSA detected 1,320 firearms at 
the checkpoints. As already mentioned, in 2021, that number 
grew to 6,000 firearms. Here at PDX, our growth in firearms at 
checkpoints mirrored the National trend. In 2011, we had 19 
loaded mostly firearms detected at our checkpoints and 66 were 
found in 2019. Over 90 percent of those firearms were loaded. 
Even during the global pandemic and its impact on air travel, 
TSA saw a doubling in the per capita rate of passengers with 
firearms screened at the checkpoints. This steady growth is 
alarming to me as a chief of police and the president of ALEAN.
    When the TSA identifies a firearm through the screening 
process, TSA and police staff immediately investigate. These 
investigations shut down the checkpoint lane during the 
encounter causing delays, as well as creating a very stressful 
situation for TSA staff and travelers. Firearm investigations 
are staff-intensive, thorough, and involve multiple steps to 
secure the firearm and conduct an owner interview. Ultimately, 
police must resolve the incident in accordance with each 
State's laws, and there might not be an appropriate State 
criminal charge. The varied State criminal enforcement statutes 
limit the options available to address the increase in firearms 
in airport terminals. Civil penalties may be imposed by TSA to 
travelers who bring firearms to the checkpoints.
    Local jurisdictions are working to address the situation. 
Here at the port, we engaged the Oregon State policy makers 
over the course of several years about this issue. In 2021, the 
Oregon legislature passed Senate bill 554. The law added 
passenger terminal at PDX to the definition of a public 
building in Oregon, which prohibits intentional possession of a 
firearm within the terminal. Concealed handgun license holders 
are also subject to a misdemeanor charge for bringing a firearm 
to the checkpoint. Firearms in checked bags consistent with 
Federal and airline policy are allowed. Law enforcement 
officers and a limited number of listed groups of persons may 
possess firearms in the terminal.
    I believe the change has enhanced our ability to protect 
the traveling public and provide us with the authority to 
arrest or cite passengers and allow appropriate enforcement 
action to take place. However, the increase of firearms at 
checkpoints reduces the ability of TSA and airport police to 
focus on their primary duties in other sensitive areas of the 
checkpoint and securing those airports against threats.
    I would ask the subcommittee to consider these actions to 
help bring increased awareness to the traveling public about 
the prohibition of firearms at checkpoints. So, I offer these 
following recommendations.
    First, consistent and clear signage at the start of the 
checkpoint queue in airports. I believe this is an issue of 
such critical importance that there should be a standard sign 
at every single airport checkpoint prohibiting firearms through 
passenger screening and including the relevant penalties if 
found with a firearm. The signage should not be optional for 
local Federal security directors or airport operators.
    Second, clear and consistent communication from airlines to 
passengers and an opportunity for TSA to work with the airlines 
regarding passenger firearm protocol at the checkpoint. 
Airlines should be part of the solution by communicating with 
passengers the checkpoint firearm rules and policy when check-
in whether by phone, kiosk, or in person regarding the 
prohibition of firearms in carry-on bags and through the 
checkpoint.
    Violations should come with increased fines. The Federal 
fines must act as a deterrent, an actual deterrent to folks who 
carry firearms. The current fines, as you know, range from 
$1,500 to $13,910. To my knowledge and my experience, the 
maximum fine is rarely, if ever, imposed and clearly not 
serving as a deterrent. I believe the TSA and Congress should 
consider significantly raising the civil penalties imposed to 
make an actual impact.
    Enrollment in DHS Trusted Traveler programs is a privilege. 
Currently those who violate rules regarding firearms will have 
the Trusted Traveler benefits revoked for a period of time. I 
believe the program should be revised to allow and encourage 
DHS to permanently withdraw the status of any traveler who 
violates the firearms policy at the checkpoints.
    I thank you for this opportunity to address you today about 
the increase in firearms at the airport checkpoints and I look 
forward to working with the subcommittee on solutions that will 
assist us in protecting airports. I am happy to answer any 
questions. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Wallis follows:]

                   Prepared Statement of Jason Wallis

                           February 15, 2022

    Chairwoman Watson Coleman, Ranking Member Gimenez, and 
Members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
speak with you today about the issue of firearms at TSA 
checkpoints and the impacts on airport law enforcement.
    I am the chief of police of the Port of Portland (Port) and 
the current president of the Airport Law Enforcement Agencies 
Network (ALEAN). I have been in law enforcement for 26 years, 
24 of those serving at the Port of Portland police department. 
I was named chief of police for the Port in 2015. My job--and 
the job of our police officers at the Port--is that of your 
typical police department: We are the law enforcement agency 
responsible for public safety at our properties. Most of our 
work is centered at PDX. My No. 1 priority is to ensure the 
safety of everyone who utilizes our facilities.
    Located in Portland, Oregon, the Port owns 3 airports--
Portland International (PDX), along with 2 general aviation 
airports, Hillsboro and Troutdale--4 marine terminals on the 
Columbia and Willamette Rivers, and we are the largest owner of 
industrial land in Oregon. Our mission is to build shared 
prosperity for the region through travel, trade, and economic 
development. Our core values are leadership, inclusion, and 
service.
    PDX is the largest commercial airport in Oregon and 
Southwest Washington, serving nearly 20 million passengers 
annually in 2019, prior to the pandemic. On average, 55,000 
passengers would travel through PDX on a daily basis. Today, 
travel volume at PDX is approximately 75 percent of pre-
pandemic levels. We believe 2022 will continue to see steady 
increases in travel, and that we will ultimately return to our 
pre-pandemic growth in the years ahead. We are also in the 
midst of a significant expansion at PDX, a $2 billion capital 
construction investment. Our goal is a PDX that can manage 34 
million passengers annually by 2045.
    ALEAN has over 100-member airport police departments 
located at our Nation's largest airports. As the ALEAN 
president I support airport police by bringing together 
agencies to work on similar issues, support annual training 
conferences and actively provide input in the formulation of 
public policy concerning matters of civil aviation security, 
through partnerships with Government agencies and industry 
stakeholders.
    The National growth in passengers over the past decade also 
came with an increase in the number of firearms identified at 
the security checkpoints. In 2011, the TSA detected 1,320 
firearms at checkpoints. A decade later, in 2021, there were 
nearly 6,000 firearms interdicted at the Nation's airport 
checkpoints. Between 2011 and 2019, the average annual rate of 
firearms detected at the checkpoint was 5 firearms per million 
passengers screened. In 2020 and 2021, that rate jumped to an 
average of 10.2 firearms per million passengers. In other 
words, in the midst of the global pandemic and its crushing 
impact on air travel, the TSA saw a doubling in the per capita 
rate of passengers with firearms screened at the security 
checkpoints. This steady growth is alarming to me as a chief of 
police and as ALEAN president.
    When the TSA identifies a firearm through the screening 
process, TSA and police staff immediately conduct an 
investigation. These investigations shut down the checkpoint 
lane during the encounter, causing delays, as well as creating 
a stressful situation for TSA staff and travelers alike. The 
firearm investigations are staff-intensive, thorough, and 
involve multiple steps to secure the firearm and conduct an 
owner interview. Even though the TSA and airport police conduct 
an investigation on every firearm detected, police must resolve 
the incident in accordance with each State's laws. There may or 
may not be criminal charges. The varied State enforcement 
statutes limit the options available to address the increase in 
firearms in airport terminals. Civil penalties may be imposed 
by TSA for travelers who bring firearms to the checkpoint.
    PDX's growth in firearms at the checkpoint mirrors the 
National trend. In 2011, there were 19 firearms detected at our 
checkpoints and 66 were found in 2019, over 90 percent of these 
firearms were loaded. I would like to share my journey in 
establishing a prohibition of firearms at TSA screening 
checkpoints in Oregon.
    Both TSA and the Port were troubled by this increase in 
firearms, and as a result, the Port engaged Oregon State policy 
makers over the course of several years about the issue. In 
2021, the Oregon legislature passed Senate Bill 554 which added 
the passenger terminal at PDX to the definition of ``public 
building'' in Oregon.\1\ This meant that existing State law, 
which makes intentional possession of a firearm in public 
buildings a felony, would be applicable at PDX. Individuals 
with a concealed handgun license are also subject to 
prosecution for bringing a firearm to the checkpoint but those 
cases are a misdemeanor, not felony.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Specifically, the statue states, ``Any person who intentionally 
possesses a loaded or unloaded firearm or any other instrument used as 
a dangerous weapon, while in or on a public building, shall upon 
conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.'' ORS 166.370.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What didn't change under the new Oregon law: Passengers may 
continue to travel with firearms in checked baggage if they are 
unloaded, packed in a locked hard-sided container, and with 
ammunition packed separately, consistent with Federal and 
airline policy. Law enforcement officers, as well as a limited 
group of persons defined in State statute, may also have 
firearms in the terminal.
    Ultimately, this change was about the safety of our 
passengers at PDX. I believe it has enhanced our ability to 
protect the traveling public and provided us with the authority 
to arrest or cite passengers and allow appropriate enforcement 
action to take place.
    The increase of firearms at checkpoints reduces the ability 
of the TSA and airport police to focus on their primary duties 
of protecting and securing our airports against other threats. 
I would ask this subcommittee to consider actions to help bring 
increased awareness to the traveling public about the 
prohibition of firearms at checkpoints.
    I offer the following recommendations:
    Consistent and clear signage at the start of checkpoint 
queues in airports.--Every airport and TSA checkpoints have 
signs, and lots of them. And local airport operators--including 
the Port--retain significant authority over signage. I believe 
this is an issue of such critical importance that there should 
be standard signs at every single airport checkpoint 
prohibiting firearms through passenger screening and include 
the relevant penalties if found with a firearm. This signage 
should not be optional for local Federal Security Directors.
    Clear consistent communication from airlines to passengers 
regarding firearms protocol.--When checking in for a flight, 
passengers must acknowledge prohibited hazardous material and 
prohibited items before finalizing check-in. But there is 
currently nothing specific highlighted about the prohibition of 
firearms at security checkpoints. I believe this notice should 
be revised to ensure passengers are provided clear information 
about checkpoint policy as well as the procedure for checking 
firearms.
    Violations should come with increased fines.--Federal fines 
imposed by TSA must act as an actual deterrent to passengers 
who carry firearms. The current fines which can range from 
$1,500 to $13,910 are clearly not serving as that deterrent, 
and to my knowledge the maximum penalty is rarely if ever 
imposed. I believe TSA and Congress should consider 
significantly raising the civil penalties to make an actual 
impact.
    TSA PreCheck/Trusted Traveler.--Enrollment in the 
Department of Homeland Security Trusted Traveler programs is a 
privilege. Currently those who violate rules regarding firearms 
will have Trusted Traveler benefits revoked for a period of 
time. I believe the program should be revised to allow and 
encourage DHS to permanently withdraw the status of any 
traveler who violates the firearms policy at the checkpoint.
    In closing, more needs to be done to ensure that the 
traveling public is aware of the regulatory prohibition on 
carrying firearms into the checkpoint and increased penalties 
imposed for those who continue to do so.
    Thank you for this opportunity to address you today about 
the increase of firearms at airport checkpoints. I look forward 
to working with the subcommittee on solutions that will assist 
us in protecting our airports.

    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you. I appreciate your 
perspective Mr. Wallis. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Cutie to 
summarize his statement for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF RALPH CUTIE, DIRECTOR AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, 
                  MIAMI INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT

    Mr. Cutie. Good afternoon Chairwoman Watson Coleman, 
Ranking Member Gimenez, and distinguished Members of the 
subcommittee. Thank you for inviting me to testify before you 
today on this very important and alarming issue at our 
country's airports. My name is Ralph Cutie and I am the 
director and chief executive officer of Miami International 
Airport. If I may, Madam Chair, I would like to take a moment 
to especially extend a warm greeting, as we say here in Miami, 
to our hometown Congressman Ranking Chairman Gimenez--Ranking 
Member Gimenez--and thank him for his many years of service to 
Miami-Dade County and to our airport and the strong support 
that he has given our airport over the years.
    Here some of the news here at MIA on the heels of 3 
consecutive record-breaking years in passenger volume, you 
know, we went through a very difficult 2020 after COVID hit. We 
finished up 2019 with 47 million passengers as Ranking Member 
Gimenez mentioned. That translated after COVID to in 2020, 
where we had 18 million passengers come through our airport. A 
significant decrease in passenger volume.
    Now, from that we have rebounded and had a very robust 
recovery over the last year. We finished off 2021 with a 
record-breaking year for us. In November and December, we had a 
significant increase in passenger volume. Of the top-10 days in 
MIA's history, he had 8 of those top-10 days in November and 
December of this year, including our No. 1 day of all time, 
December 19, when we moved almost 166,000 passengers through 
our airport.
    So, the good news is that we have rebounded very well from 
the COVID pandemic. We are currently the No. 1 fastest-growing 
airport in the United States. We are the No. 2 airport for 
international passengers in the country. We are currently the 
fourth- or fifth-busiest airport in the United States depending 
on what day we look at those stats.
    So, I guess the point there is that the news is very good 
from our end. But with that good news, comes very big 
challenges, not the least of which is the challenge that we are 
discussing today. So, as far as the issue of firearms at 
checkpoints is concerned, my colleagues have already mentioned 
the statistics which are alarming. Nearly 6,000 weapons 
confiscated at checkpoints Nation-wide. That is unacceptable. 
Here at MIA ourselves, we have had a rash of confiscated 
weapons. In 2020, during the pandemic, we set a record by TSA 
confiscating 60 weapons at our checkpoints. Unfortunately, we 
broke that record in 2021, which resulted in 75 arrests by our 
Miami-Dade police department at our checkpoints. Again, not a 
number that we are proud of and a very alarming number.
    That combined with some of the statistics that one of my 
colleagues mentioned regarding unruly passengers is of great 
concern to us. I mean, 6,000 unruly passenger incidents 
throughout the country is not a good number. We had 607 here at 
Miami-Dade County at our airport. We essentially tripled the 
long-standing National average from pre-COVID, which is 150 to 
200 unruly passenger incidents a year.
    So, we are very concerned about those numbers but are we 
enthusiastic that we can take that paradigm? Absolutely. We 
have taken steps starting in Thanksgiving to try to curb those 
numbers. One of the things that we have done is working 
together in partnership with TSA, this Thanksgiving we 
implemented a program where we installed high-visibility 
signage at all of our security checkpoints regarding firearm 
education and so passengers are aware that the firearms would 
not be allowed, obviously, at the checkpoint. We also worked 
with TSA to reach out to all of our partner airlines to make 
sure that they educate the traveling public when they go to the 
checkpoints either through direct engagement in conversation 
between their ticketing agents and the passengers, and also 
through high-visibility signage that the airlines can use to go 
ahead and deter those types of things happening at our 
checkpoints.
    We are also exploring potentially messaging through our 
ride share services and going ahead and having our Uber and 
Lift services here at the airport have signage in the different 
vehicles and go ahead and advise passengers that we have a 
zero-tolerance policy when it comes to firearms being carried 
onto or through our checkpoints.
    So, we have taken steps already in an effort to be 
proactive and try to curb that. So far, those efforts have been 
successful. Our numbers have come down from approximately an 
average of 2 to 3 confiscated firearms per week pre the 
implementation of these measures. We are now as of January, we 
had 3 in a month. So, in the month of January, we had 3. So, 
those numbers seem to coming down. What we are doing seems to 
be working. But, obviously, we are open to other potential 
solutions and I am willing to listen to all of our colleagues. 
I mean, obviously, we could always use additional TSA staff. 
Nobody is going to argue with that. And additional funding in 
that regard. But, you know, we obviously take the problem 
extremely seriously and we look forward to the conversation. I 
thank you again for the opportunity to testify before you and 
look forward to working with all of you to get through this. 
Thank you very much.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Cutie follows:]
              Prepared Statement of Ralph Cutie
                           February 15, 2022
    Good afternoon Chairwoman Watson Coleman, Ranking Member Gimenez, 
and distinguished Members of the subcommittee. Thank you for inviting 
me to testify before you today along with this distinguished panel of 
aviation and law enforcement partners on this very important and 
alarming issue.
    My name is Ralph Cutie, and I am the director and chief executive 
officer for the Miami-Dade County Aviation System which includes Miami 
International Airport (MIA), Miami-Opa Locka General Aviation Airport 
(OPF), Miami Executive General Aviation Airport (TMB), Homestead 
General Aviation Airport (X51), and the Training and Transition Airport 
(TNT).
                               background
    For our discussion today, I will focus primarily on MIA but there 
is also some National context that I believe is important. MIA is 
operated by the Miami-Dade Aviation Department and is the property of 
Miami-Dade County government. MIA offers more flights to Latin America 
and the Caribbean than any other U.S. airport, is America's second-
busiest airport for international passengers, boasts a lineup of over 
90 air carriers and is the top U.S. airport for international freight. 
Prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, MIA handled over 47 million passengers. 
MIA is also the leading economic engine for Miami-Dade County and the 
State of Florida, generating business revenue of $31.9 billion annually 
and approximately 60 percent of all international visitors to Florida. 
MIA's vision is to grow from a recognized hemispheric hub to a global 
airport of choice that offers customers a world-class experience and an 
expanded route network with direct passenger and cargo access to all 
world regions.
    COVID-19 put an immediate halt to our vision. From a record-setting 
47 million passengers in 2019, MIA experienced empty terminals and 
empty aircrafts. If not for the financial assistance provided by 
Congress, MIA along with every other airport in this country would not 
be in the position to restart our industry.
    But with this restart, new and unexpected issues have arisen. 
Specifically, an increase of firearm confiscations at our passenger 
checkpoints.
    Madam Chair, I applaud you and this committee for clearly 
recognizing the problem and putting together today's hearing in the 
effort to finding solutions to this problem which is critical to the 
continued safe and efficient operation of the Nation's aviation system.
    According to the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), 
civilian firearm purchases in the United States in 2000 totaled about 7 
million. By 2010 that number was approaching 10 million. In 2020, the 
first year of the pandemic, over 22 million guns were sold in this 
country and estimates range as high as 40 percent for the number of 
those sales that were to first-time gun buyers.
    Now, I know that those facts raise a lot of questions that we are 
not here today to answer but I cite them because they give context to 
the discussion that we are having. These numbers tell us that there are 
significantly more guns in circulation today and a lot of people out 
there that are not experienced in owning a gun and the solemn 
responsibilities that go with it. Add to that the forgetful, careless, 
and clueless and you can see the results quite clearly.
    The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) officers across 
the State of Florida have seen a surge in passengers bringing guns to 
airport checkpoints, breaking records at airports across the country.
    According to TSA published data, TSA officers detected a record 
number of firearms at airport security checkpoints in 2021, 
establishing a new 20-year record--even with fewer passengers traveling 
due to the pandemic. By December 31, 2021, TSA officers stopped 5,972 
firearms at our Nation's airport checkpoints. The number of firearms 
that TSA officers are stopping at airport checkpoints is alarming and 
Florida airports are certainly not immune. And we suffer the 
consequences. While the vast majority of passengers caught with 
firearms have no ill intent, the negative impact on the airport is 
undeniable. Screening is disrupted, lines get longer, TSA and local 
police resources are diverted, and everyone is inconvenienced.
    At MIA, the numbers reflect the National trend. In 2021, the Miami-
Dade Police Department (MDPD) made 75 arrests for firearms at our 
checkpoints breaking the previous record of 60 in 2020. Tampa 
International Airport (TPA), Southwest Florida International Airport in 
Fort Myers, Orlando International (MCO) and Fort Lauderdale 
International Airport (FLL) have similar increases. MIA, FLL, TPA, and 
MCO are typically in the top 10 or 11 airports across the country for 
passengers violating the Federal law.
                       mitigation efforts at mia
    So, what are the penalties and presumably the deterrents? 
Passengers who violate the firearms regulation face a civil penalty 
from the TSA that can reach as much as $13,910 and that is up from 
$10,000 just a few years ago. That fine is imposed regardless of 
whether the individual is cited or physically arrested and transported 
to jail by our law enforcement partners. If the traveler is in the TSA 
PreCheck program, those privileges will be lost for a period. And 
repeat offenders may lose their privileges permanently.
                            recommendations
    Can we shift the paradigm? I believe the answer is yes. At MIA we 
began a simple passenger education effort last Thanksgiving. In 
partnership with TSA, we placed high-visibility signage at security 
checkpoints where passengers enter the queue. TSA has reached out to 
airlines here and encouraged them to make firearms awareness part of 
the ticketing transaction, either with signage or through agent-to-
customer conversation. In the few months since this initiative began, 
we have seen guns at checkpoints go from the previous high of 2 to 3 
per week to only 3 in the entire month of January. While the numbers 
may not yet be statistically important, they do give reason to be 
optimistic and to seek out additional partners to educate the public.
    In closing, I am grateful for the opportunity to provide the views 
of MIA on this very important issue and how we can minimize operational 
impacts moving forward and appreciate your attention to this matter.
    Thank you for your consideration and the opportunity to testify.

    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you so very much. I am 
having a bit of a problem with my camera. I can't see you. I 
hope you can see me. But in the mean time, I will try to figure 
this out. So, I need to thank every one of the witnesses for 
their testimony today. I am going to remind the Members of the 
subcommittee that each of us will have 5 minutes to question 
the panel.
    Without objection, Members that are not on the subcommittee 
shall be permitted to sit and question the witness. As I 
indicated, I did see Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. I don't 
know if there are any others on. But she will be recognized. I 
am now going to recognize myself for some questions.
    I am really interested in talking about the ripple effect 
on the airport operations when a gun is found at a TSA 
checkpoint. So, I am going to start with you, Mr. Bheodari. 
When TSA identifies a gun in a passenger's carry-on luggage, 
please walk us through what happens operationally.
    Mr. Bheodari. Bheodari, Hartsfield-Jackson General Manager. 
When the TSA screened the bag, there was an anomaly that was 
not readily identified, and the TSA pulled that bag aside for a 
secondary screening unaware that there was a weapon in the bag. 
Had a passenger knowing that there was a weapon in his carry-on 
bag, reached in, grabbed the weapon, and in that scuffle, the 
weapon accidently discharged.
    Once the weapon discharged, the checkpoint had a number, 
several, couple of hundreds of passenger in queue waiting to go 
through security screening. You could imagine the confusion 
that occurred at that instantaneous moment where passengers 
started running. They just abandoned everything and started 
running for cover.
    Our law enforcement officer that was at the security 
checkpoint, the minute he heard that sound, looking at CCTV 
video footage, he start moving toward the zone of fire. He 
called in for back-up and then from there, Atlanta police took 
over their response and very, very quickly ascertained that it 
was an accidental discharge. It was not intentional. They 
started a search for this individual throughout the airport 
public area. We were certain that he didn't make it into the 
secured area of the location. Then from there, once we 
ascertained that it was secure, it was unintentional and APD 
secured the scene for further investigation, we moved toward 
reopening the airport. The airport was closed for approximately 
2\1/2\ hours.
    So, talking about this incident itself, there were other 
rippling effects, and one of those is the financial impact. We 
estimate that for every hour because of the magnitude of our 
operations here that this airport is closed, it has a financial 
impact of nearly $2.5 million to our stakeholder, to the 
airline, to the concessioner, parking revenue, and so on and so 
forth.
    But again, we were fortunate that our skill was so well-
honed. Just a day before, we conducted an active-shooter 
exercise. So, it was fresh in the mind of everyone and despite 
that exercise, our team is continually training because we know 
the chaos this could bring to an airport.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you, sir. Mr. Wallis, from 
the law enforcement perspective, what does your response 
entail?
    Mr. Wallis. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, for the question. 
Much like described earlier, they are staff-intensive. So, a 
general response for a gun, a firearm in a bag at a checkpoint 
looks like this. Mandatory minimum of two officers. We know 
there is a firearm present. Here at PDX we have spent many 
years working with TSA on establishing an incident command 
system. So, we have a mini-incident command with our sergeant. 
So, that is a third police officer and their screening 
supervisor. One thing we also have that, I think, most airports 
have if the passenger reaches for the gun, or there is a 
discharge, we also have the alarms installed at the checkpoint.
    But on an average gun in the bag, it is we have established 
a small area at each checkpoint where once we secure the 
firearm, determine that the person is not dangerous. Obviously, 
if the person is showing signs of being threatening, we would 
take him into custody. But, in general, the passenger is 
willing to come with us while we run the firearm to make sure 
it is not involved in any crimes, is not stolen, see if it is 
loaded, question the person.
    Then at the end of the day, we have two ways to go. If the 
firearm is seized because it is evidence, it is extensive 
packaging and forensic evaluation of the firearm, along with 
criminal charges. But more often than not, as you have 
mentioned, and others as well, it is just a civil penalty. We 
do write full investigative reports on every gun at the 
checkpoint. We also forward those civil incidents to the FBI 
because as mentioned, there is a corresponding Federal felony 
charge that looks much like our State charges for the firearms. 
That is kind-of it. If we seize the firearm, there is a lot of 
ways it could go. But more often than not, we do not.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. 
Wallis. My time has run out. I did want to ask questions about 
the fines. I think that is something that you all address in 
everyone of your recommendations. So, if not one of my 
colleagues doesn't cover that, I will cover that in a second 
round. I will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Gimenez.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Question of 
somebody, maybe if somebody has the answer to this. What 
percentage of the folks that have a gun in their carry-on, how 
many of them, what percentage of that is on purpose? What 
percentage of it is, hey, I forgot, I didn't know, it is a 
mistake? What are the percentages there?
    Mr. Cutie. Congressman, I would say here in Miami, I would 
say the vast majority, probably more than 95 percent, are 
inadvertent carry-ons. In other words, it is not a purposeful, 
somebody with some kind of ill intent in the majority of the 
cases here. The vast majority of the cases, it is somebody that 
has forgotten. They were either they are used to carrying, and 
they had forgotten, and they go to the checkpoint and then that 
is where the situation goes south.
    Mr. Gimenez. OK. Does anybody have a difference of opinion 
that it is not 95 percent that it is inadvertent?
    Mr. Bheodari. In Atlanta, a great majority, 90+ percent, 
oh, I forgot. The data is showing as that we don't--if they are 
caught with a gun, we don't have repeated offenders.
    Mr. Gimenez. You don't. That is a great question, OK. That 
was a question, actually, I was going to ask. What is the 
percentage of repeat offenders? Which means to me that they 
really weren't trying to get something through.
    So, if 90 to 95 percent of the people is inadvertent, I am 
not sure where heightened penalties are going to avert that 
because it was a mistake. I mean, you could charge me $100,000, 
if I forgot that there was something in there, I am not sure 
that that is going to avert anything. So, there has to be, I 
think, the solution to this for 90 to 95 percent is greater 
signage and greater signage and greater signage all over the 
airport so that it is not just it doesn't happen just when you 
walk into the TSA checkpoint. That when you walk into the 
airport, there are no guns. Then maybe that will trigger, oh, 
my God, hey, I have a gun.
    Then is there a place, I guess, where if you do have a gun 
in your carry-on, that you say, hey, if you have a gun in your 
carry-on, you need to go check that bag and there is a process 
for you to carry that gun so that basically you don't have to 
go back home, et cetera.
    So, I think that is something that I would like to see, 
greater signage and options for an individual that may have 
forgotten that they have a gun in there. Or maybe their memory 
may be jogged.
    Now, in terms of the Atlanta incident, what concerns me is 
that the individual was able to grab the gun. Now, did the 
person grab the gun before it went through the checkpoint or 
after it went through the checkpoint?
    Mr. Bheodari. Well, the protocol in Atlanta is if a gun is 
visible on the screening monitor, that gun is--and the way our 
checkpoint in our system the technology is designed, that gun--
that bag will be diverted into a secure location and it will be 
handled. An APD, Atlanta police officer will call to handle 
that bag.
    In this case here, the gun was not visible through the 
screening process. So, the gun was diverted just for a back 
search, a back screening by a TSO, a transportation security 
officer. That is where the difference in the split was in this 
incident versus a bag that has a gun where the gun is visible 
on the entry.
    Mr. Gimenez. That now opens up a heck of a lot more 
questions. How in the world was the gun not visible on the X-
ray? How was it that that gun got through and the X-ray 
operator didn't see that there was a gun there?
    Mr. Bheodari. So, Congressman, we could provide more 
additional information because I am not a technical expert to 
discuss why that gun was not visible through the X-ray 
screening process. But the expertise here at the airport could 
certainly provide and we could provide a written explanation to 
that question.
    Mr. Gimenez. I guess you don't want to show why it wasn't. 
Maybe the individual packed it a certain way. But that is 
concerning in and of itself that somehow a gun got through 
without us knowing there was a gun there.
    So, again, Madam Chairwoman, maybe that is something that 
we need to discuss with TSA about the technology they are 
using. What percentage of bags may have guns that we don't even 
detect, all right? That to me is much more concerning probably 
than this 95 percent of the people that are carrying a gun, you 
know, inadvertently. So, my time is just about up. Maybe I will 
have, if you indulge me in another round of questions after 
everybody is done. So, thank you very much and I yield back.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you, Mr. Gimenez. 
Following up on your concerns, I agree with you. We are trying 
to get a greater understanding of how a gun wasn't detected. 
But something alerted a TSO to put that baggage into a second 
tier of scrutiny, and I would like to understand what that was. 
If he didn't see a gun, what was it that alerted that TSO to 
move that bag to another location for additional scrutiny? Sir, 
would you know the answer to that off-hand, Mr. Bheodari?
    Mr. Bheodari. I think the TSA officials could better answer 
that question, Congresswoman, because I am not familiar with 
why--what they saw on the screen that caused the decision to be 
made for secondary screening versus diverting to the safe 
location for a weapon.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you. I recognize Ms. 
Titus.
    Ms. Titus. Thank you, Madam Chairman and thank you for 
holding this hearing. You know, it is really important here in 
Las Vegas because we have got the fifth-busiest airport and now 
that the economy is coming back, more and more people will be 
coming. Also, we have so many sporting events that we expect to 
see more people coming. We have had the same problem that has 
been mentioned by other airports, a record number of guns found 
last year, 83 by TSA. That is a considerable increase and we 
worry about it increasing more.
    Just a couple of questions to whoever wants to answer it. 
One is a large number of the people who come through our 
airport speak a different language. They don't speak English. 
Last time I had a bill that was required TSA to put up signs in 
other languages. I wonder if they feel like that signage to 
explain you can't carry a gun in a different language might be 
adequate? Also, as more people pour through here, if you find a 
gun and it disrupts the whole process, how do you deal with the 
people who are behind you in the line and now want to go catch 
their plane and they got to stop because somebody has found a 
gun and it is causing confusion at the checkpoint? Finally, 
just briefly, what about these 3D-printed guns? How are we 
going to be dealing with those?
    Mr. Wallis. Madam Chairwoman Titus, thank you for the 
questions. This is Jason Wallis with ALEAN and the Port of 
Portland Police. There are a few layers to that. So, for the 
most part, that is the reason we require multiple staff on 
those calls is partly because of that crowd management. TSA 
actually does a really good job if the checkpoint lines are 
slowed or shut down of diverting and opening up different 
lines. That has been my experience in your airport and here at 
PDX. They do a really good job.
    The 3D-printed gun question, you know, that has been on our 
radar for a few years and a concern. Obviously, the main 
concern is safety for everybody involved. The fact that it 
potentially violates, you know, regulations that are already 
set up on firearm production and distribution. It really would 
make it difficult for law enforcement after an incident on the 
forensic side to, you know, do our normal checks whether it is 
a barrel, how things work.
    Then, obviously, we have concerns and as mentioned earlier, 
what technology is there to detect those? I know some of the 
TSA equipment is very good at detecting polymer-based 
constructed guns. I know it is improving and it is probably an 
area that needs to be funded and explored further. It is a 
concern for law enforcement.
    Ms. Titus. Would somebody address maybe the language 
problem if that is a problem?
    Mr. Cutie. Representative Titus, here in Miami in our case, 
all of our signs in that we have a very large Hispanic 
community, our signs are all in English. However, they are 
clearly illustrated so it is like a stop sign. You will see an 
illustration of a gun with a red line through it. So, I mean, 
it is very--it is very, very clear in our case. It is a 
universal type thing where, you know, it is clear that a 
firearm is not allowed. So, we are real clear on that.
    When it comes to checkpoints, et cetera, I mean, our 
biggest issue is when a firearm is detected and confiscated, 
typically, one of our lanes in our checkpoints are closed down, 
which reduces our throughput by 25 percent, which is a major 
impact for us. If that period of time is extended, then, you 
know, that ends up in passengers missing flights, et cetera, 
schedules being disrupted. In some cases, some chaos at the 
terminals. Disruption of the resources that we have, assignment 
of police officers, et cetera. So, those are some of the 
impacts we deal with almost on a daily basis here.
    Ms. Titus. Thank you. So, you can use universal symbols if 
you don't have all the different languages----
    Mr. Cutie. That is correct.
    Ms. Titus [continuing]. That might be. That is good, OK.
    Mr. Cutie. That is correct.
    Ms. Titus. Well, there has just been so much hostility in 
airports with the virus and the masks and the spacing that I 
hate to see this--people get backed up and that contribute to 
it. So, appreciate the good work that you all do. I see you 
every week when I fly back and forth to Washington through the 
Las Vegas airport and appreciate what you do to keep us safe. 
Thank you, Madam Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you, Ms. Titus. I just 
want to share with the group that there was a TSA statement. It 
said that the firearm we were talking about was detected as it 
passed through the scanner and then it was moved to secondary 
screening. Which is then I was also told usually if a gun is 
found, the bag is held inside the X-ray machine until the law 
enforcement arrives. So, there really is a good reason to speak 
with TSA and try to get the real skinny on this. Madam Miller-
Meeks.
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank you 
to our witnesses who are here. This certainly is an important 
topic. I just want to follow up a little bit on what 
Representative Gimenez had asked in reference to how many times 
are firearms found or left in a bag and it is accidental? Then 
the follow-up question was that how many second offenders are 
there and I am sure this is something that you track and the 
answer was none. So, are there ways that TSA can proactively, 
i.e., at the airports you constantly hear messages where to 
park your car, are there messages that can be relayed prior to 
going through security so that people get out of the line and 
remove their firearms if they in fact have firearms, and then 
check them?
    Mr. Bheodari. So, Congresswoman Miller-Meeks, if I 
understand it----
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks. I am sorry?
    Mr. Bheodari [continuing]. This is Bheodari from Atlanta 
airport--correctly, how many of those weapons that they 
discover are deliberate or just forgetfulness? Based on what 
the police records show, most of those that are apprehended for 
a weapon in their carry-on luggage at the checkpoints claim 
that they forget the weapons. That is in high 90 percentile. Of 
repeat offender, last year I think we only had 1 repeat 
offender of the 507 weapons that were caught at the checkpoint. 
Messaging are done in a number of fashion. We have the mnemonic 
messaging, static messaging, pictorial, multi-language, local 
media, customer service standing in the queue line reminding 
passengers to check their luggage one more time to ensure that 
they don't have any guns in their luggage or any other 
prohibited items. So, it is done multiple times along the 
journey to include when you check in on either your app the 
airlines, there is a whole set of messaging by the airlines to 
talk about prohibited items.
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks. Yes, I have seen the static messages on 
a message board, if you will. But I have not seen other 
messages in the numerous airports that I travel, at least not 
in the United States. That was why I was asking my question so 
that people are pulled out of the line if, in fact, it is 
accidental----
    Mr. Wallis. Congresswoman.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Congresswoman, you are muted.
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks. OK. My phone says I am unmuted so I am 
sorry.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. You are fine.
    Mrs. Miller-Meeks. I will yield back my time.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you, Congresswoman. I 
recognize Mr. Payne.
    Mr. Payne. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for this 
timely hearing. This question is for all the witnesses. What 
challenges do firearms pose to the security of the public areas 
of an airport such as ticket counters and baggage claim and 
parts of the concourse before the security checkpoints? 
Anybody?
    Mr. Wallis. Congressman, I can take a stab at that 
question. Jason Wallis, ALEAN, chief of police of Portland 
International Airport.
    Mr. Payne. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Wallis. So, you know, since September 11, and even 
before September 11, threat, scope, and concept has shifted as 
more active-shooter events and more dynamic, you know, threats 
or shooting events have occurred in public areas. So, that is 
an extreme priority for all of law enforcement in this country 
and also in others. Unfortunately, we have learned many lessons 
from other countries as well on the threat of explosives, 
firearms, and even edged weapons in the public area.
    So, back to my original statement. That is one of my main 
concerns with the staff resource drain for these folks who say 
they forgot their weapons because the weapon still is 
dangerous. It was originally in the public area and it could 
discharge. It is also a weakness in the system. I think we have 
clearly identified that over the last 3 years, regardless of 
fines and the current fines and the current messaging and the 
current signage, the number of loaded firearms in every airport 
has just blown it out of the water. It is at crazy levels.
    So, it is a concern to me and I do think that we need to do 
something to prohibit those loaded weapons from coming into the 
front of the terminal and not making it to the checkpoint.
    Mr. Payne. Thank you. Anyone else?
    Mr. Bheodari. Congressman, it is very alarming when the TSA 
discovered 5,972 weapons in 2021, when they screened 300 
million less passengers. Eighty-six percent of those weapons 
had a round in the chamber or had a magazine, a loaded magazine 
in the weapon. Very, very alarming and as the chief said, just 
an accidental discharge as demonstrated in Atlanta in November, 
could cause mass panic.
    Mr. Payne. Thank you.
    Mr. Cutie. Congressman.
    Mr. Payne. Yes?
    Mr. Cutie. Congressman Payne, I would say to answer your 
question, yes, at least here in Miami, the threat that exists 
pre-security would be the same threat that would exist in any 
other venue that is not in the airport. That would be, 
obviously, accidental discharge, the potential of using a 
firearm in a crime, obviously, the worst scenario, which is the 
active-shooter scenario. So, all those threats exist at airport 
pre-security the same way they exist in any other venue here in 
Miami, whether it is a restaurant, a movie theater, a public 
park, et cetera. The threats are the same and we take them very 
seriously here. Obviously, we have more than 150 police 
officers that go through our terminals every day. We increase 
sweeps during holiday periods, et cetera, when we have 
increased passenger volumes. But I would say the threats are 
exactly the same here as they are in any other public venue 
whenever any of us go out to those venues.
    Mr. Payne. Somebody needs to mute their phone. Mr. Regan, 
what have TTD members shared regarding their feelings of safety 
at work when open or concealed carry is permitted in airports? 
What about when guns are caught at checkpoints in the airports 
where they work?
    Mr. Regan. Well, thank you for that question. You know, I 
think honestly the biggest thing we get from TSOs and from 
members of AFGE who represent those workers, most of the 
complaints about their workplace have to do with their lack of 
workplace rights and work force rights that every other Federal 
employee has. So, whether it is at a, you know, a place where 
there is open carry or not, ultimately, you know, the day-to-
day--their day-to-day ability to do their job is hampered by 
the fact that they are denied some of the basic rights that 
virtually all other Federal employees are granted.
    Mr. Payne. Absolutely, thank you. Madam Chair, I will yield 
back. But we need to continue our work as I know you have and 
Chairman Thompson have to advocate for TSOs to be brought up to 
the Federal standards that they deserve. They are on the front 
lines here of our security every single day and we need not let 
them not be compensated to those levels. I know you feel the 
same way. But thank you and I yield back.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you, Mr. Payne. As I go to 
our last figure in the first round, who will be Representative 
Sheila Jackson Lee, I just want to kind-of put it on the record 
my thought about this issue about folks forgetting that they 
had a gun in their check-in luggage in their luggage they were 
going to take onto the plane with them. That is the last bag 
you generally pack is the bag you are putting all your stuff in 
that you are going to take on the plane with you. It is hard 
for me to believe that everybody that gets caught and 90 
percent of people that get caught with a gun in their bag 
forgot they had it. Even if they did forget they had it, it is 
still an illegal act. We need to be treating it as such. With 
that, I would like to recognize Representative Sheila Jackson 
Lee. Representative Sheila Jackson Lee.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Can you hear me?
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Yes, you are being recognized, 
ma'am.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much to the Chair and to 
the Ranking Member for this hearing and to the witnesses that 
have been very provocative. I was certainly aware of the 
shooting of the TSO officer in California and the sadness and 
tragedy of that overwhelming tragedy. So, the issues that I 
want to discuss deal with how we get to a better place. First, 
I would like to ask Mr. Regan, you know that we have been 
working on legislation, H.R. 903, the rights of TSA work force. 
We know that there is morale issues, meager pay, low morale, 
lack of workplace bargaining rights. I would be interested in 
how you could expound on how making sure that TSOs are paid 
fairly, trained with extensive training, and have a better 
voice in the workplace that continues to impact on keeping the 
skies secure.
    Mr. Regan. Thank you so much, Congresswoman. Yes, that 
piece of legislation you mentioned is critical. If you look at 
the morale rates at the--among TSOs, it is really--it is 
really, you know, really distressing. The fact that we have 
people who we put our lives in their hands to make sure that 
our aviation system is secure and they are being treated on an 
unlevel and unequal playing field with the rest of the Federal 
work force is just a crime.
    When you look at what happens, the results, frankly, for 
the Federal taxpayer, the fact that we have such high turnover 
rate. If you look at the 10-year period ending in 2018, you 
know, they replaced the entire TSA work force over that time. 
You cannot retain people that you are training at a very high 
level with high security responsibilities in a high-stress 
environment unless you are going to compensate them well and 
give them access to other Federal benefits that, frankly, their 
supervisors are granted. So, I just don't think it is a 
sustainable model that we currently have.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I have a question of Mr. Wallis. Thank you 
very much for your answer, Mr. Regan. Mr. Wallis, can you walk 
me through what occurs at the checkpoint? Now, you deal with 
the law enforcement element of the TSA. Walk me through what 
happens when a passenger comes in and let me use this 
terminology and I don't use it with disrespect, but feigns lack 
of knowledge about the gun that they forgot to put somewhere 
else. What and how do we handle that?
    Mr. Wallis. Congresswoman Jackson Lee, I appreciate the 
question and I appreciate your careful wording of the question 
as well. So, the good news is that TSA staff and law 
enforcement treat these incidents the same from beginning to 
end regardless of the statement or the stated mental 
culpability of the person in possession of the firearm. So, it 
is intensive and depending on area constraints, like we heard 
from Las Vegas, it can shut down up to 25 percent of their 
screening queue. Some airports have a little bit of a broader 
area in the back and you can actually move the person, within 
their rights, to do a further investigation.
    But most airports are really constrained and the action is 
confined there at the screening checkpoint. So, we would 
conduct an interview. We would secure the firearm. Get 
statements from the person. What we do find more often than 
not, the person says they forgot it. We do look for things like 
how was the bag packed? Is the gun sitting in a particular 
area? There are a lot of different things law enforcement would 
look for. But you are right. Most of the time people say they 
forgot.
    But I would just like to bring this up. After 26 years in 
law enforcement and dealing with multiple criminal justice 
issues, most people for most crimes investigated that I have 
spoken with say they didn't know or forgot that whatever 
prohibited item was in their possession. So, I might be a 
little more pessimistic than some. I don't always believe folks 
when they say they forgot it. Some I do. Some clearly it has it 
happened. But, again, that is very, in my opinion, 
irresponsible gun ownership. To forget you have a loaded pistol 
in a bag that you are submitting to TSA for screening, to me, 
is an issue. Thank you.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. So, let me pursue my line of questioning 
with the time that I have left. You remove the firearm, you 
separate the firearm and the passenger, then what happens? The 
firearm remains in your possession? The person can leave the 
airport with a ticket or what is the circumstance? They want to 
make their plane? How does that--they go back to the 
checkpoint?
    Mr. Regan. So, yes----
    Ms. Jackson Lee. When I say the checkpoint, the counter to 
check it? Go ahead.
    Mr. Regan. So, I appreciate that. Yes, depending on the 
layout of the airport, many or all of those things could 
happen. But in general, the weapon is separated. I think even 
in States where it is hard to find an ultimate criminal charge 
for citation or arrest, all airport law enforcement have the 
ability to detain and investigate further to determine if there 
is a crime.
    So, the firearm would be run, would be processed. At the 
point we decide we are done and the TSA has all their 
information for investigation, and I will take the lowest 
level, if we think all we have is a civil violation, to your 
point, it is a problem. We have to enact solutions to escort 
the person off, make sure their firearm is secured. We no 
longer, as a matter of course, just release them back into the 
public area with a firearm. So, that is a problem. What do you 
do with the firearm after you have--now they missed their 
flight and now you have an armed person that should not be in 
your public area?
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, thank you. I see that my time has 
expired. Madam Chair and Ranking Member, this is a very 
important hearing and the probing, I could probe Mr. Wallis for 
a long period of time.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Madam Jackson Lee, I am going to 
give you a second round if you just bear with us for a second.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, thank you so very much.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. All right.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank Mr. Wallis very much. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. All the witnesses, thank you.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. We have already concluded the 5-
minute questions with each of our--with each of our Members. 
So, I am now going to offer a second round of questions. I am 
going to start with asking a question myself. Currently, TSA 
typically assesses the $3,000 civil penalty for bringing a 
loaded firearm to a checkpoint or $1,500 on unloaded firearm. 
But given the surging number of firearms at checkpoints, these 
fines are clearly not acting as sufficient deterrent. So, Mr. 
Wallis, I want to start with you as the law enforcement. Would 
increasing the civil penalties, in your mind, that would be 
assessed against passengers unlawfully carrying firearms, 
encourage travelers to be more vigilant?
    Mr. Wallis. Madam Chair, thank you for the question. I 
would say any general criminological theory starts with this 
question and the one thing that we know is if something is 
swift, meaning the application of whatever the penalty is, 
occurs quickly and not at a much, much later date, is severe, 
severe enough that the person does not want to do it or if they 
did commit a crime, they don't do it again, and certain. So, I 
would say out of those three factors, the ones that I question 
are the swiftness and, obviously, the severity, but the 
certainty. What I mean by that is although we have fines at 
$1,500 to $13,910, and I understand that many mitigating or 
aggravating factors could be applied, I am not aware that we 
routinely fine on the high end, and that is certain. I have 
heard that we--if people have a 30-day payment plan, the fines 
can get reduced or some other mitigating information. It really 
to me does not address those three factors.
    Just from pragmatic and practical approach to law 
enforcement, we deal with this all the time. Take your areas of 
speeding where there are pedestrian issues and potential 
deaths. If we have a speeding problem, we cite speeders, OK? 
This to me seems fairly simple that if we have this problem, 
and I think we do, we issue citations at whatever level we can. 
Currently, the one consistent way people can be cited is the 
civil regulatory penalty.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you, Mr. Wallis. So, Mr. 
Regan, I have a question for you. There is a sharp rise in 
unruly passengers at the checkpoints and even aboard the 
airlines over the last few years. It has alarmed me greatly. In 
my opinion, the last thing we need is these situations and a 
gun in the mix. It seems to me that the possibility of a 
tragedy is difficult to overstate.
    What sort of planning, if any, have you done to prepare for 
a potential situation that involves a hostile individual with a 
legally-carried firearm in the public area of an airport? On a 
broader topic, maybe that is for you, Mr. Wallis, but on a 
broader topic, Mr. Regan, I want to ask you, do you believe the 
cabin crews would benefit from additional defense training to 
deal with unarmed but very unruly and very dangerous 
passengers? So, Mr. Wallis, can you give us a quick run through 
of what I asked you and then Mr. Regan.
    Mr. Wallis. Yes, so, I know that all the TSA flight crew 
staff, everybody from door to ticket lobby back down to baggage 
claim, should receive some level of training and awareness 
level training. From what I have heard and we have participated 
in that, it has been received very well by flight crews and 
ground crews. So, yes, I think it can't hurt anything and we do 
here at PDX as part of our broader active-shooter training, 
roll all those groups into it at some level.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you. Mr. Regan, please.
    Mr. Regan. Yes, thank you. I agree. I think having 
additional training for flight crew members, for TSA agents, 
for passenger service assistants, all of them could benefit 
from some additional self-defense and de-escalation training. 
We have actually pursued over several years now legislative 
fixes to try to protect people better, airline workers 
especially, better at the airports. One of them involves 
requiring airports and airlines to have customer service 
agents' protection plans that are going to be approved by the 
FAA. That is something that was in the last FAA reauthorization 
bill in 2018, that we are still trying to make sure is fully 
implemented.
    But all of these things and at every step of the passenger 
experience, whether it be through security or when they are 
getting ticketed or when they are boarding the plane or to the 
time they are on the plane itself, every person has a key role 
to play to making sure that that entire trip is safe. They all 
deserve every tool in their bag at their disposal to make sure 
that they can do their job safely and to make sure that there 
aren't threats to themselves or their passengers throughout 
that process.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you. Thank you very much, 
Mr. Regan and Mr. Wallis. I now recognize the Ranking Member, 
Mr. Gimenez.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, Madam Chair. Please, I didn't say 
that we shouldn't have penalties. I am just saying that if the 
majority of the people don't know they are carrying a gun and 
it is an honest mistake, then we need to have more signage so 
that they don't get to the point where they make that honest 
mistake so that it kind of reminds them, hey, you know, you may 
want to look in your bag before you go there. Then whatever 
penalties that we have, we have.
    The people that have that made an honest mistake, you can 
charge $1 million, it is not going to deter them. They made an 
honest mistake.
    So, what we want at the end is to have less people, you 
know, come through with a loaded weapon and get on that plane 
with a loaded weapon. I am thinking if it is that most of them 
are making an honest mistake, I think we need to use better 
signage and other ways to try to remind them, hey, you got to 
take a look at this.
    Question, can you carry ammunition on carry-on without a 
gun? Can you carry ammunition?
    Mr. Wallis. Mr. Gimenez, thank you for the comments before 
subcommittee. Yes, I agree with everything you just said. We 
get called for ammunition. Ammunition is not supposed to be 
allowed on carry-on based on my understanding of the TSA 
screening rules.
    Mr. Gimenez. Even these printed guns, they have to have 
ammo, right? It is not printed ammo, right? It is normal ammo 
that goes into these printed guns?
    Mr. Wallis. Correct.
    Mr. Gimenez. OK. How good is our technology in finding this 
ammo on carry-ons?
    Mr. Wallis. In my experience, I think TSA is very 
proficient at detecting ammunition.
    Mr. Gimenez. All right. Now, one other question. What 
percentage of flights have a weapon in the checked bags? 
Anybody know that?
    Mr. Wallis. I do not.
    Mr. Bheodari. I don't have the answer to that. But if you 
check a weapon in your checked bag, you have to declare that. 
If you fail to declare that weapon, then that bag once it goes 
through, that checked bag goes through screening, that weapon 
is detected and it is treated the same as an undeclared weapon, 
an illegal weapon. The passenger and bag is removed.
    Mr. Gimenez. OK. I am getting to the Fort Lauderdale 
incident. So, that, OK, does the destination airport get a 
notification that there is a checked weapon coming in on flight 
40 from Miami? Does the destination airport get that kind of 
notification?
    Mr. Bheodari. That weapon should never leave the airport of 
origination because it has to go through screening.
    Mr. Gimenez. No, I am saying I checked it right, OK? I went 
through, got it checked. There is a checked weapon going to 
wherever I am going, right? It is legal. So, it is getting 
there, all right? Now, does the airport, does the originating 
airport tell the destination airport that on flight 47 from 
Miami there is a checked weapon in the bag?
    Mr. Cutie. Congressman, when a passenger legally checks his 
weapon with his checked luggage, it goes on the passenger's 
PNR, passenger name record, which then becomes part of the 
record that the airline that is transporting the passenger 
keeps. So, to answer your question, that information is 
available in the passenger name records, which identify.
    Mr. Gimenez. OK. No, what I am getting to is do you--I 
don't know if I have any time left. OK. What I am getting to 
is----
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. You have time to get an answer.
    Mr. Cutie. No, the information is not pushed.
    Mr. Gimenez. OK. What I am asking is does the receiving 
airport know that there is a checked weapon in that bag and 
then do they then notify law enforcement that you need to go to 
this carousel because there is a weapon in one of those bags so 
that we avert what happened in Fort Lauderdale? Does that 
happen?
    Mr. Wallis. I can speak to that part of it, Ranking Member 
Gimenez. That is not the procedure. Here in the Pacific 
Northwest, we deal with more of the long guns. People are 
flying to Alaska. There is a hunting population. So, I can tell 
you that for oversized items, things packaged like a hardcase 
with rifle, there is a little bit of notification. But that is 
all within the airline. Unless there is some sort of criminal 
nexus or, you know, TSA or Federal air marshal notification 
because of the person, that really is not passed on to local 
law enforcement.
    Mr. Gimenez. OK. You know, the reason I asked that is the 
reason why I asked how often does it happen? Because you could 
be overwhelmed. But if it is something which is rare, or not 
that usual, then you may be able to put a law enforcement 
officer there just to make sure that we don't have another Fort 
Lauderdale. That is all, OK? So, thank you. With that, I yield 
back. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. Thank you, Ranking Member. I 
recognize Representative Sheila Jackson Lee as the last Member 
to question.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, thank you 
for the questions. I am going to go to Mr. Wallis, please. 
Again, thank you. Mr. Wallis, we were in a line of questioning 
about just what happens with the process at the checkpoint. In 
spite of your very effective sort of narrative, what happens is 
that there are different laws that you deal with in different 
States. Is that not accurate, Mr. Wallis?
    Mr. Wallis. Yes. Yes, that is correct.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. So, you follow those State laws in terms 
of the individual that is there. So, let me try to go back to 
what has to happen with different TSOs. So, some of them--do 
most of them wind up with a gun in their possession? Do you 
escort the person out do you think with the gun if you, you 
know, view it as a civil and you are convinced that they really 
didn't know and had a mistake? I remember some of the 
incidences where the person ran and so it was more than that. 
And got lost inside in all the confusion and airports were 
literally they came to their knees, to be honest with you. 
There were not planes going in and out. The people couldn't 
move around. But let me yield to you for your response.
    Mr. Wallis. Yes, Congresswoman Jackson Lee, thank you for 
the question. Yes, and over the years, we have developed some 
procedures here locally, not every airport. We didn't used to 
do this originally. But now when we come into contact with a 
firearm, because we had such a problem with exactly what you 
are mentioning of just handing a firearm back to an owner and 
letting them walk back through the ticket lobby, what we do now 
is we break the gun down. We actually put it in the same kind 
of a box. It is a very unassuming cardboard box which is handed 
back to the owner and we do escort them out of the public area. 
It is a concern and it is the best we have come up with so far. 
But ultimately to your point, yes, we hand the firearm back and 
the person does receive it if there is no criminal charge.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. They walk themselves out, typically?
    Mr. Wallis. We usually walk them a minimum as far as the 
front of the terminal. Sometimes a little farther. But, yes, 
once they get to the pedestrian areas of the airport, they are 
in possession of their item.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. So, maybe I didn't hear this. What about 
the individual that says, keep it, I have got to get on my 
flight. What happens with that person?
    Mr. Wallis. We have done that as well. We do have 
permission boxes on our evidence and property forms for 
destruction. But I would say a problem with that, and I am 
working with our local district attorney and this is a problem 
that comes up across the country, if somebody changes their 
mind, and it is not a piece of evidence, we have a problem. 
Then, since we are in possession of that firearm, even if we 
want to give it back, we have to follow the ATF rules for 
transfer of a firearm. So, we have had that happen quite 
frequently where someone changes their mind once they are back 
from their trip and we haven't already destroyed the weapon. 
They have consented. We process it. It is waiting for 
destruction. They changed their mind or their attorney calls us 
and says they have changed their mind. Or they can get a 
judge's order that says they have changed their mind. We wind 
up having to follow a pretty labor-intensive process of 
firearms transfer rules that dealers have to go through.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. So, it would be helpful if all airports 
had major signage as people even put their first foot into 
maybe in the parking garage as well as first foot into that 
open area as they come into check-in?
    Mr. Wallis. I do think consistent signage that lists the 
fine and have the firearm with the prohibited sign would be 
very effective. I am sensitive to airport property owners 
because I know there are a lot of signs. But, yes, signage, I 
think, would be helpful, if not for a deterrent, also if we do 
have somebody who is a bad actor and we can articulate signs 
were there, they were informed of the rules at check-in at the 
counter. There was another sign at the screening queue. It does 
potentially help with intent. If we do have a true bad actor, 
not just somebody who forgot, it does help us with resolution.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Some penalties that might be more 
effective might be helpful as well.
    Mr. Wallis. I do believe so, yes.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. May I quickly go to Mr. 
Bheodari and just to you in your airport work just tell us how 
we can enhance airports to encourage airports to really invest 
in signage because a weapon is so dangerous to the general 
public and those who are flying.
    Mr. Bheodari. So, thank you, Congresswoman. Signage have to 
be multilingual and it has to be dynamic and eye-catching. It 
has to draw the attention of the traveling public. That is what 
we are doing here in Atlanta is we are looking at an entire 
suite of packaged styling and dynamic signs of how we could 
draw their attention before they submit themselves to 
screening. That you know what? A gun is not permitted in the 
security screening checkpoint. I think Congress ought to 
discuss this issue with the TSA and have a National discussion 
on messaging this to the general traveling public.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you so very much. Thank you, Madam 
Chair and Ranking Member.
    Chairwoman Watson Coleman. You are welcome. You are 
welcome. With that I would like to--I notice that there are no 
more questions to be asked in the second round by any different 
new members. So, I would like to thank each and every one of 
the witnesses today. You have been very helpful. You certainly 
enlightened us and given us some current guidance on where 
things we need to look at and go in the next direction.
    The Members of the subcommittee may have additional 
questions even after this quite exhaustive hearing that we have 
had. So, we would ask that you respond expeditiously in writing 
to those questions should you receive them. The Chair reminds 
the Members of the subcommittee that the committee's record 
will remain open for 10 days. Without objection, I pray that 
you all stay safe, stay well, and the subcommittee stands 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:26 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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