[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH:
IMPROVING FIRE SAFETY IN
FEDERALLY ASSISTED HOUSING
=======================================================================
FIELD HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING,
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT,
AND INSURANCE
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
APRIL 20, 2022
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services
Serial No. 117-79
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
47-478 PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
MAXINE WATERS, California, Chairwoman
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York PATRICK McHENRY, North Carolina,
NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York Ranking Member
BRAD SHERMAN, California FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York BILL POSEY, Florida
DAVID SCOTT, Georgia BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
AL GREEN, Texas BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan
EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri ANN WAGNER, Missouri
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado ANDY BARR, Kentucky
JIM A. HIMES, Connecticut ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
BILL FOSTER, Illinois FRENCH HILL, Arkansas
JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio TOM EMMER, Minnesota
JUAN VARGAS, California LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas ALEXANDER X. MOONEY, West Virginia
AL LAWSON, Florida WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio
MICHAEL SAN NICOLAS, Guam TED BUDD, North Carolina
CINDY AXNE, Iowa DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois TREY HOLLINGSWORTH, Indiana
AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
RITCHIE TORRES, New York JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin
ALMA ADAMS, North Carolina LANCE GOODEN, Texas
RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania VAN TAYLOR, Texas
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, New York PETE SESSIONS, Texas
JESUS ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas
NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, Massachusetts
Charla Ouertatani, Staff Director
Subcommittee on Housing, Community
Development, and Insurance
EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri, Chairman
NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York FRENCH HILL, Arkansas, Ranking
BRAD SHERMAN, California Member
JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio BILL POSEY, Florida
AL GREEN, Texas BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York TREY HOLLINGSWORTH, Indiana
JUAN VARGAS, California JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
AL LAWSON, Florida BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin, Vice
CINDY AXNE, Iowa, Vice Chair Ranking Member
RITCHIE TORRES, New York LANCE GOODEN, Texas
VAN TAYLOR, Texas
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on:
April 20, 2022............................................... 1
Appendix:
April 20, 2022............................................... 39
WITNESSES
Wednesday, April 20, 2022
Ampry-Samuel, Alicka, Regional Administrator, Region II,
Department of Housing and Urban Development, accompanied by
Ashley Sheriff, Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary, Real Estate
Assessment Center, Department of Housing and Urban Development. 29
Carrion, Adolfo, Commissioner for Enforcement and Neighborhood
Services, New York City Department of Housing Preservation and
Development (HPD).............................................. 5
Clayton, Sandra, former resident of Twin Parks North West........ 4
Gibson, Vanessa L., Bronx Borough President...................... 7
Kavanagh, Laura, Commissioner, New York City Fire Department..... 9
Visnauskas, RuthAnne, Commissioner and CEO, New York State Homes
and Community Renewal (HCR).................................... 10
APPENDIX
Prepared statements:
Ampry-Samuel, Alicka......................................... 40
Carrion, Adolfo.............................................. 46
Clayton, Sandra.............................................. 49
Gibson, Vanessa L............................................ 51
Kavanagh, Laura.............................................. 55
Visnauskas, RuthAnne......................................... 57
Additional Material Submitted for the Record
Cleaver, Hon. Emanuel:
Written statement of the Door and Hardware Institute......... 62
Written responses to questions for the record submitted to
Vanessa L. Gibson.......................................... 65
Written responses to questions for the record submitted to
Laura Kavanagh and Adolfo Carrion.......................... 68
A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH:
IMPROVING FIRE SAFETY IN
FEDERALLY ASSISTED HOUSING
----------
Wednesday, April 20, 2022
U.S. House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Housing,
Community Development,
and Insurance,
Committee on Financial Services,
Washington, DC
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 12:01 p.m., at
the Hall of Fame Playhouse, Roscoe Brown Student Center, Bronx
Community College, 2155 University Avenue, Bronx, New York, and
via WebEx, Hon. Emanuel Cleaver [chairman of the subcommittee]
presiding.
Members present: Representatives Cleaver, Green, Torres,
and Dean.
Also present: Representatives Espaillat and Evans.
Chairman Cleaver. The Subcommittee on Housing, Community
Development, and Insurance will now come to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a
recess of the subcommittee at any time. Also, without
objection, Members of the House who are not on the subcommittee
are authorized to participate in today's hearing.
Today's hearing is entitled, ``A Matter of Life and Death:
Improving Fire Safety in Federally Assisted Housing.''
I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
I would like to welcome our first panel of witnesses, but I
think maybe we will go back and do the opening statements
because I want to make sure Mr. Torres speaks on these issues.
On January 9th, a fire broke out at the Twin Parks North
West apartment building, taking the lives of 17 Bronx, New
York, residents in what was New York's deadliest fire in 3
decades. The fire was reported to have been caused by a space
heater in a third-floor unit, used to stay warm on what was a
cold winter morning. As the inferno spread throughout the unit
into other parts of the building, survivors reported a thick,
chalky smoke that blocked some residents from escaping and
incapacitated others as they attempted to flee. Subsequent
investigations singled out malfunctioning self-closing doors as
a key reason that smoke from the flames quickly engulfed much
of the 19-story tower.
The deaths of all victims, including children as young as
2-years-old, was later attributed to smoke inhalation. The
incident at Twin Parks North West was tragic. The incident was
also preventable. And I want to be clear: What happened at Twin
Parks North West was unacceptable to this committee.
I spent 7 years living in public housing with my mother,
father, and 3 sisters, so I understand the whole issue
surrounding public housing because I know about it
experientially. And I know that there are always going to be
struggles. Growing up and living in public housing was a source
of pride for my family. If you were lucky enough to live in
public housing, you actually had an advantage. It is painful
for me to know that today, there are families like mine who
wait years and years for Federal assistance, only to live in a
unit where they must resort to space heaters to keep their
children warm at night, and families living in buildings where
property owners have been negligent in their responsibility to
provide a safe and healthy environment for their residents.
This is not true of all federally assisted housing, or even
most, but it is far too common.
Federal, State, and local governments have a responsibility
to conduct inspections to enforce the law and, where necessary,
to hold owners accountable for the safety of their residents.
The tragedy at Twin Parks North West was an unacceptable
failure of this system, and it underscores the urgent need to
improve oversight of fire safety in federally assisted housing.
The tragedy at Twin Parks North West also underscores the
effect our country's affordable housing crisis is having on
American families, and the need for additional investment. This
committee, under the leadership of Chairwoman Maxine Waters,
has worked diligently to advocate for Federal investments in
decent, safe, and sanitary housing for American families. We
have held hearings. We have drafted and advanced bold
legislation responsive to the needs of tenants. And we have now
come to New York City at the request of Congressman Torres to
highlight the critical need for this committee's legislation to
advance in Washington. Importantly, the legislation, still
called Build Back Better, and passed by the U.S. House of
Representatives in November 2021, includes this committee's
provision to provide $150 billion to expand access to
affordable, accessible housing, including $65 billion to repair
and modernize public housing, $1.6 billion to revitalize
distressed multifamily properties, and $5 billion to address
health and safety hazards in low-income housing.
As members of this committee know, the investments put
forward by this committee are a matter of life and death for
American families across the nation. And as many of you
watching today know, the incident at Twin Parks North West was
not an isolated incident. I would like to thank you all for
being here today, and I look forward to your testimony on what
we need to do now.
I now recognize my colleague, the gentleman from New York,
Congressman Torres, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Torres. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am enormously
grateful to you and to Chairwoman Waters for your commitment to
affordable housing, not only here in the Bronx, but across the
country.
It has been 25 years since the United States Congress has
held a hearing in the Bronx, and it is the first time we have
done so on the subject of housing. It is long overdue. The
Bronx is Ground Zero for the housing crisis in America, a
crisis of both housing quality and housing affordability. The
tragedy of Twin Parks North West reminds us that the need for
safe, decent, affordable housing is not an abstraction. It is a
matter of life and death.
It is not an abstraction to the father who lost every
member of his immediate family, nor is it an abstraction to the
mother who lost her toddler, nor is it an abstraction for the
children who have lost their parents. A lack of access to safe,
decent, affordable housing can be a death sentence. It can be a
firetrap imposed by a Federal Government whose housing
disinvestment is so cruel and callous that it puts poor people
of color at grave risk of losing everything--their lives, their
loved ones, and their homes--from a catastrophic fire.
Twin Parks North West has held up a mirror to who we are as
a society and the grave harm that we have done to the lowest-
income people in our country. Twin Parks North West was a
tragedy, but it was no accident. It is no accident that New
York City's 4 deadliest fires in the past 3 decades have all
been here in the Bronx, from Happy Land, to Woodycrest, to
Prospect Avenue, to Twin Parks North West.
Most of the people who died in these fires were immigrants,
immigrants from Central America and immigrants from Africa,
immigrants who came here in search of the American Dream, only
to have their lives ravaged by a nightmare, a nightmare made in
America and made by decades of deliberate disinvestment in
communities like the South Bronx.
Enough is enough. We cannot wait passively for the next
tragedy to happen. We must make the housing investments
necessary for keeping our people safe in the very place where
they deserve to be most safe, which is in their homes.
I yield back.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much.
I would like to now welcome the first panel of witnesses.
First, we have someone who has been very helpful to our
committee over the years, Mr. Adolfo Carrion, who is the
Commissioner of the New York City Department of Housing
Preservation and Development.
Second, we have Ms. Sandra Clayton, who is a former
resident of Twin Parks North West.
Third, we have Ms. Laura Kavanagh, who is the Commissioner
of the New York City Fire Department.
Fourth, we have Ms. RuthAnne Visnauskas, who is the
Commissioner and CEO of New York State Homes and Community
Renewal.
And fifth, we have Ms. Vanessa Gibson, who is the Bronx
Borough President.
Thank you all for being here.
Ms. Clayton, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give
an oral presentation of your testimony.
STATEMENT OF SANDRA CLAYTON, FORMER RESIDENT OF TWIN PARKS
NORTH WEST
Ms. Clayton. Chairman Cleaver, Ranking Member Hill, and
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to
testify today about my experiences at the Twin Parks North West
apartment building.
On January 9th, a fire in my building took the lives of 17
residents. The fire started when a portable heater fell on a
mattress and ignited, and it spread because the doors were
propped open. But tenants had been living in dangerous
conditions for years, and the property owners swept it under
the rug. Their neglect led to this fire.
I was a tenant in the building for 26 years. Over that
time, I saw my building deteriorate. For years, the heat wasn't
working properly. I kept four space heaters in my apartment to
stay warm. Everyone I know had space heaters. I used to put
plastic covers over the A/C vents to prevent the cold air from
coming through. Before this tragic event, my building was not
perfect, but some issues should have been addressed, like
proper working heat.
Before the fire, the front doors of the building were not
operating properly, and the building's alarm system was
malfunctioning and it would go off at night. When the fire
alarm went off in January, I assumed it was nothing, because I
was so used to the alarm going off. The only reason why I knew
there was an issue and was able to get out safely is because my
neighbor yelled down the hallway, ``Fire, fire.'' If not for my
neighbor, who knows what would have happened.
After the fire, the Red Cross, BronxWorks, and other
organizations were very generous. They gave me furniture,
bedsheets, and pots and pans. I am so grateful.
My whole life changed after the fire. I have been receiving
counseling services, and I have been diagnosed with post-
traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). I watched people who were
being resuscitated and were not responding. My ex-girlfriend
had tubes down her throat for weeks. I am getting physical
therapy now because I hurt my leg. I am thankful that I made it
out alive, but I am sad for those who didn't.
During the fire, I lost my dog. I was trying to save
myself, my ex-girlfriend, and my dog, but I couldn't. I am so
hurt inside, even if I walk around with a smile on.
I am at a new apartment now. I feel safer now. My apartment
has a sprinkler system, and I control my own heat and air
conditioning. The laundry is on the same floor. The cameras are
working.
But I am worried. I sleep with my doors unlocked. I put my
clothes for the next day by my bed, just in case I need to run
out of the apartment if there is another fire. I am hoping that
I will get over this with time, but I am constantly worried.
I had to return to the building a few weeks ago, and my
whole body reacted. I remembered how the smoke was coming
through the walls, so thick and fast. I will always remember
that smell. They are trying to cover up the smell, but I will
never forget it.
There were many other health and safety issues at my
apartment building that were never fully addressed. There was
feces, urine, and garbage sometimes in the stairwells and
hallways. There were rodents in some apartments. Even though
they brought in an exterminator, it wasn't fixed, so I had to
pay for my own exterminator. The security guards didn't keep us
safe. There were no cameras in places where it was needed, like
in the stairwells. Management thought that just because we are
low income, they can treat us poorly. We had become accustomed
to living in bad conditions like that.
There has been so much attention to the building after the
fire. Everyone says they want to fix things, but they should
have been doing this all along.
I want Congress to take action to keep our buildings safe.
It should not take a tragedy before people get serious about
improving the conditions in these buildings. If this happens to
us, it can happen to other people, too. Congress needs to step
up.
Even more importantly, we need to be respected because we
matter. Our lives matter. My life matters.
I am just one person, but I want to help change things so
that other people do not go through this.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look
forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Clayton can be found on page
49 of the appendix.]
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you for your testimony. I think
your words are powerful, and we aren't just going to listen to
them and forget them.
Ms. Clayton. Thank you.
Chairman Cleaver. Mr. Carrion, you are now recognized for 5
minutes.
STATEMENT OF ADOLFO CARRION, COMMISSIONER FOR ENFORCEMENT AND
NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES, NEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING
PRESERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT (HPD)
Mr. Carrion. Thank you, Chairman Cleaver, and good
afternoon. Good afternoon, Congressman Torres. Welcome back
home. And hello to the other members of the committee who have
joined us, some remotely.
I am Adolfo Carrion, Commissioner at the New York City
Department of Housing Preservation and Development (HPD). The
Twin Parks fire was a devastating tragedy, and we are grateful
that you are continuing to focus on the important topic of fire
safety as we all work to prevent future fires. We thank you for
the opportunity to testify today.
I want to take a moment to thank the City's heroic
firefighters, EMS workers, and first responders, who sprang
into action within minutes of the fire, saving many lives. But
we continue to mourn the 17 New Yorkers, including 8 children,
whose lives were lost that day. Our hearts go out to Ms.
Clayton, who is with us today, and all of the residents who
were affected on that tragic day.
Since then, Mayor Adams and teams from across New York
City, including HPD, have been working tirelessly to respond to
this tragedy. Our first priority has been to attend to the
immediate needs of these families, in partnership with the
building owners, the American Red Cross, the New York State
Division of Homes and Community Renewal, and our fellow City
agencies.
Before turning to HPD's role in code enforcement, and the
topic of fire safety, I want to stress the critical role that
Federal resources play in all of these efforts. We are very
appreciative of the millions of dollars in housing assistance
allocated to New York City from the Federal Government.
However, additional Federal resources and tools are needed to
combat a housing crisis that forces far too many New Yorkers to
pay too much of their income towards rent or to live in
overcrowded or unsafe conditions. More than ever, the City
needs additional funding to protect the quality and longevity
of our critical public and affordable housing infrastructure,
to provide desperately-needed rental assistance, to bolster
local housing code enforcement, and to assist small landlords
in properly maintaining their properties to ensure the health
and safety of tenants.
We were encouraged that significant housing investments
were included in the Build Back Better Act passed by the House,
and President Biden's Fiscal Year 2023 budget request to
Congress that includes increasing the affordable housing
supply.
HPD takes our role in ensuring the safety of New York City
renters extremely seriously. HPD inspectors perform over half-
a-million inspections annually, either proactively or in
response to 311 complaints. Because we have so many important
responsibilities, we recognize the need to be surgical in our
approach to enforcement, beyond the response to complaints.
In addition, HPD inspectors proactively look for and issue
violations for multiple health and safety issues regardless of
whether HPD has received tenant complaints. These issues
include lead, mold, carbon monoxide detectors, mice and
roaches, double cylinder locks, self-closing doors, smoke
detectors, and illegal gates. As part of its outreach strategy,
HPD continues to educate tenants and owners about health and
safety requirements during our general communications through
updates to our ABC's of Housing Information Guide, which is
also available in more than 10 languages and on our webpage on
fire safety.
Given the tragic event at Twin Parks, we know that more can
and must be done to protect our fellow New Yorkers. In response
to Mayor Adams' Executive Order Number 12, we are proud to
strengthen our partnership with the the Fire Department of the
City of New York (FDNY) around outreach and education, data
collection and sharing, and strategies for enhanced enforcement
of the fire code. Partnerships with the FDNY and other agencies
have intensified our enforcement and education initiatives, and
the City is fully committed to protecting the health and safety
of all New Yorkers. We appreciate your support and attention at
this moment of need for so many Bronx and New York families,
and we look forward to working with you on this and so many
other critical housing needs.
Thank you for your time, and we look forward to your
questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Carrion can be found on page
46 of the appendix.]
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Carrion.
Ms. Gibson, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give an
oral presentation of your testimony.
STATEMENT OF VANESSA L. GIBSON, BRONX BOROUGH PRESIDENT
Ms. Gibson. Thank you so much. Good afternoon, Chairman
Cleaver, Congressman Torres, and members of the Subcommittee on
Housing, Community Development, and Insurance. I am Bronx
Borough President Vanessa L. Gibson, and I am grateful for this
invitation to testify before all of you today on such an
important topic--improving fire safety in federally assisted
housing--and for choosing to host this hearing in our Borough,
on our beloved Bronx Community College campus.
As many of you know, on January 9th, the Bronx experienced
one of the most horrific fires in our history. We were shaken
by this five-alarm fire that took place at Twin Parks North
West, claiming the lives of 17 of our neighbors, including 8
children. My office, alongside City and State agencies,
community organizations, and all of our elected officials,
quickly sprang into action to provide immediate relief and to
help find displaced residents temporary aid and accommodations.
We witnessed how our Borough, the City, and parts of the nation
came together in response to this tragedy. And thanks to the
overwhelming support of our communities, we were able to
distribute aid in the form of food, clothing, bedding, and so
many other essential items for our families. I am especially
grateful for our first responders, the FDNY, the Office of
Emergency Management, the NYPD, and the American Red Cross, who
acted decisively and heroically to save as many lives as
possible.
This tragedy only heightened the many inequities our
residents have historically faced living in federally assisted
housing and what we have known to be true all along: There is a
lack of attention and accountability in addressing longstanding
violations and a lack of priority and investment for necessary
repairs to ensure safe, quality, and adequate housing for our
residents. This fire, as well as many others citywide, could
have been prevented had these issues been addressed
accordingly. The Twin Parks fire was determined to have been
caused by a faulty space heater, a system commonly used by many
families due to insufficient heating in their building, which
records show was a constant complaint that went unaddressed
here at Twin Parks.
This unfortunate tragedy also escalated due to the
malfunctioning and faulty self-closing door. Every death at
Twin Parks was caused by smoke inhalation. The fire itself was
contained to the apartment that it started in and the adjacent
hallway. However, the apartment door did not close behind the
evacuating family, unfortunately, and the fire was able to
spread quickly throughout this building.
In addition to Twin Parks, dozens of other families have
been displaced in fires here in the Bronx and the in City of
New York just this year. The causes and effects of these fires
have truly been diverse, but they all show that fire safety
must be a priority. There is much work that Congress can do
both to prevent future tragedies like this and to improve the
housing conditions for the people who have already been
affected.
We need stronger laws that hold landlords and property
owners accountable, and more funding to help revitalize and
preserve our current inventory of affordable housing. Congress
should move forward on two of the bills before the subcommittee
today, introduced by Congressman Torres.
The first is H.R. 6528, the Housing Temperature Safety Act
of 2022. This bill would require the owner of federally
assisted rental dwelling units to install temperature sensors
in such units on each level of the unit.
The second bill is H.R. 6529, known as the Twin Parks North
West Fire Safety Act of 2022, which would require owners of
federally assisted rental dwelling units to install self-
closing doors in such units. Although this is already the law
here in New York City, adding a Federal mandate will strengthen
the enforcement of these policies, particularly when it comes
to public housing and Section 8 housing.
Along with local Councilman Oswald Feliz, I have helped to
introduce two pieces of legislation here in the New York City
Council that would increase compliance with the requirement for
self-closing doors. Together, we should be able to ensure that
every apartment door in New York City closes when necessary.
I want to commend the House for the passage of the Build
Back Better Act that is inclusive of housing provisions for
additional funding for HUD, aimed at expanding access to
affordable housing, tackling the severe backlog of repairs, and
addressing health and safety standards in all federally funded
housing. It has been made clear from the discoveries of all of
these tragedies that funding is desperately needed, and this is
truly a matter of life and death.
I also want to urge Congress to support our President's
Fiscal Year 2023 budget request, which includes more funding
for HUD to address housing deficiencies.
As you have heard from so many residents and witnesses, the
road to recovery for Twin Parks has been long and burdensome.
The timeline we envision for relocation has only been extended
because of current housing crises, coupled with limited Federal
vouchers. We truly can turn our pain into purpose, and I want
to thank this committee for your work on tackling fire
prevention and housing safety as a priority. I also want to
thank Congressman Ritchie Torres, who has taken the lead in
crafting Federal legislative action to address the fires that
we have had this year.
All levels of government, Mr. Chairman, can truly work
together--Federal, State, and local government--working with
all of our stakeholders, to prevent future fires across the
country.
I thank you for the opportunity to testify this morning,
and I look forward to your questions, and thank you so much for
your leadership and your commitment to all Americans. Thank
you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Gibson can be found on page
51 of the appendix.]
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much, Ms. Gibson, for your
testimony.
Ms. Kavanagh, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give
an oral presentation of your testimony.
STATEMENT OF LAURA KAVANAGH, COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK CITY FIRE
DEPARTMENT
Ms. Kavanagh. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman Cleaver,
Congressman Torres, and members of the Subcommittee on Housing,
Community Development, and Insurance. My name is Laura
Kavanaugh, and I am the Acting Commissioner of the New York
City Fire Department. I want to thank you for the opportunity
to speak today about the fire at the Twin Parks housing
development and how we can ensure that the Fire Department and
our partners and government are doing everything we can to keep
New Yorkers and all Americans safe.
On Sunday, January 9th, just before 11 a.m., the Fire
Department received a call about a fire in a duplex apartment
in the Twin Parks North West building in the Bronx.
Approximately 3 minutes later, the first FDNY units arrived.
The fire ultimately resulted in the death of 17 residents, and
46 others were hospitalized. The scale of the tragedy was
staggering even for the veteran firefighters, EMTs, and
paramedics who respond to life and death incidents every day.
The deaths and injuries that occurred at Twin Parks were
the result of heavy smoke that moved rapidly throughout the
building, reaching stairwells and hallways. In total, the Fire
Department dispatched 200 firefighters and 57 ambulances to the
scene. Every available paramedic in the City was sent to help.
Fifteen residents who were discovered in cardiac arrest were
rescued and successfully transported to local hospitals. Dozens
of others received assistance from firefighters and immediate
medical care from EMTs and paramedics. But for the efforts of
those first responders, the number of lives lost would have
been even greater.
In the aftermath of the Twin Parks fire, Mayor Adams issued
Executive Order 12, which requires greater information sharing
between the Department of Housing Preservation and Development
and the Fire Department. This strengthened coordination will
improve the way that the Fire Department conducts inspections.
Executive Order 12 also directs the Fire Department and
other City agencies to increase public awareness regarding fire
safety practices. A key lesson learned from the Twin Parks fire
is the importance of educating New Yorkers about closing the
door when fleeing a fire. In this incident, the fire itself was
contained rather quickly, but the door to the apartment that
was on fire and some doors in the hallways and stairwells
throughout the building remained open, allowing toxic smoke to
spread quickly to every floor. Closing the door in the room
where a fire is located isolates the fire and prevents smoke,
heat, and flames from spreading to hallways and stairs. The
Fire Department has devoted a great deal of attention over the
last several years to making sure that New Yorkers understand
the importance of closing their doors when escaping a fire. We
have worked to educate the public via social media messages,
public service announcements, and community outreach. Our
message is consistent: Closing the door saves lives.
Outreach and education are critical to maintaining public
safety. FDNY's Fire Safety Education unit has a robust program
that reaches all areas of the City, focusing on messaging about
closing the door and a variety of other topics. Active and
retired firefighters host events with targeted fire safety
content and materials to increase awareness of fire and life
safety tips, as well as disaster preparedness. This includes
but is not limited to fire safety presentations, smoke alarm
installation campaigns, and mobile CPR trainings. The Fire
Safety Education unit also responds to all major fires, sending
teams into the surrounding neighborhood within 24 hours to
connect with the community, distribute fire safety information,
and sign people up for smoke alarm installations. From 2015
through 2021, the Fire Department distributed or installed
200,000 free smoke alarms.
In 2021, even with in-person presentations severely
limited, the Fire Department conducted 2,100 fire safety
presentations, reaching an audience of more than 150,000 New
Yorkers, and 601 of those presentations were here in the Bronx,
which amounted to 28 percent of all presentations citywide. The
rate of those events has increased dramatically this year. In
the first quarter of 2022, FDNY has performed nearly 1,100
presentations, including reaching audiences of 22,000 school
children. And 900 presentations have been scheduled since the
Twin Parks fire. We also post fire safety education materials
online. Last year, those pages received more than 26 million
hits.
Looking specifically at the Bronx, FDNY ramped up our
outreach in this Borough in the immediate aftermath of the Twin
Parks fire, and we have not slowed down. In the weeks following
the fire, we engaged with partners at the Department of
Education, the New York City Police Department, the American
Red Cross, and a wide range of community boards, community-
based organizations, and faith-based organizations. We are
coordinating with the Department of Education to distribute
messaging to educators and to share opportunities to schedule
presentations in their own classrooms. We are working with
several individual building managers in the Bronx to set up
virtual fire safety presentations for tenants.
January 9th was the kind of day that stays with first
responders for the rest of their careers. Nobody who was
involved that day will ever forget the devastation and the
loss. Our obligation to those we have lost is to learn from
what we have experienced and to recommit ourselves to finding
ways to better protect the people of New York City. I thank the
subcommittee and the House of Representatives for your
partnership and attention to fire safety issues and for the
opportunity to speak with you today. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Kavanagh can be found on
page 55 of the appendix.]
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you, Ms. Kavanagh, for your
testimony.
Commissioner Visnauskas, you are now recognized for 5
minutes to make an oral presentation of your testimony.
STATEMENT OF RUTHANNE VISNAUSKAS, COMMISSIONER AND CEO, NEW
YORK STATE HOMES AND COMMUNITY RENEWAL
Ms. Visnauskas. Thank you, Chairman Cleaver, Congressman
Torres, and other Members for holding today's hearing on the
need for new legislation to better ensure the safety of public
and affordable housing in America. I would like to thank my
counterparts at HPD for being great partners in this process.
And we would like to thank the FDNY for their bravery on that
January 9th day. We thank the borough president for really
being a tireless advocate for the residents in this community.
And we thank Ms. Clayton. We really value your voice in this
conversation and we are happy to be alongside you today.
I am RuthAnne Visnauskas, Commissioner of New York State
Homes and Community Renewal (HCR), where our mission is to
build, protect, and preserve affordable housing throughout New
York State. As part of that work, HCR supports local
governments and municipalities in administering Section 8
vouchers, rent stabilization and rent control, and State home
ownership assistance programs, and we are charged with
implementing Governor Hochul's ambitious 5-year, $25 billion
housing plan to create and preserve affordable housing.
Today, I am here to talk about the tragic Twin Parks fire
that took the lives of 17 people and upended the lives of all
of the residents in the building, as well as their extended
families and the larger community. I am also here today to
share both the State's response to the fire and to discuss what
more Congress and State and local governments can do to protect
residents living in affordable housing, including those in
lower-income, working-class, and immigrant families.
Following the fire, the primary focus of HDR and my State
colleagues has been to support the residents in securing safe
new housing in a community of their choice. Together with the
New York City Department of Housing Preservation and
Development, the State Office of Temporary Disability
Assistance, the Borough President's Office, and many of your
offices, as well as the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban
Development, we have actively engaged with the tenants, the
property owner, and the affordable housing community to ensure
that the building's residents received both immediate emergency
assistance, as well as options for long-term relocation.
Additionally, HDR engaged CVR Associates, which administers
Project-based Section 8 vouchers on behalf of the agency in the
Bronx, to work with all of the residents of Twin Parks who wish
to relocate. Current voucher holders can take their vouchers
with them if they move, and HDR has worked closely with HUD to
provide new access to Section 8 vouchers for eligible
individuals who were living in the building without a subsidy.
Additionally, Governor Hochul made $2 million available to
victims for housing relocation services, case management,
moving expenses, security deposits for new apartments, and
reimbursement for families in need of new furniture and other
necessities. We are thankful that the City of New York quickly
made available a newly constructed affordable property in the
Bronx called La Central. To date, more than 95 families have
applied to the new building, 66 families have signed leases,
and 58 have already moved in.
CVR is continuing to work with each family to identify
housing that meets their needs in the neighborhood or community
of their choice and on a timeline that works for them.
Looking forward, we must work together at all levels of
government to strengthen public and affordable housing
protections before another tragedy can strike. The construction
and maintenance of subsidized housing in this country is a
multilayered collaboration between Federal, State, and local
agencies that crosses urban and rural areas. Within this
ecosystem, one of HDR's primary roles is to ensure that
building owners comply with Federal guidelines and
requirements. As the affordable housing agency for the State,
we administer several programs, including HOME, CDBG, Section
8, as well as 4 percent and 9 percent low-income housing tax
credit programs. We provide fiscal, regulatory, and physical
oversight of these buildings. We are required to conduct
ongoing compliance visits in accordance with the Federal rules
by inspecting units in federally subsidized properties to
confirm that owners are meeting those Federal standards.
We take our responsibility of making sure that building
owners comply with these requirements very seriously. The
tragic fire is a clear signal that we must do more. Our
constituencies are depending on us all, Federal agencies, State
agencies, and local agencies, to identify and implement new
ways to mitigate safety risks and to enhance health and safety
requirements for public and affordable housing. As part of
this, New York State urges Congress to advance some key
measures.
One, increase Federal funding specifically for safety
inspections, as well as funding to support new technology-based
infrastructure between local, State, and Federal partners to
better ensure compliance monitoring.
Two, improve subsidized and affordable housing through the
$150 billion proposed Federal investment from Build Back Better
to address the massive backlog of public housing capital needs
and improve conditions for tenants in all affordable housing.
Three, require that space heaters be produced and sold with
automatic shut-off switches.
Four, work with industry experts to determine the efficacy
and affordability of heat sensors in subsidized multifamily
buildings to increase building safety.
And lastly, create a commission with owners, tenants, State
agencies, and local code enforcement entities to examine,
change, or update the HUD inspection protocols.
Local perspectives are critical, as it is the local
entities and tenants who are most aware of the unique features
and the challenges of the housing stock in their own
communities. We must work together to keep our low-income
households, our seniors, our veterans, and our vulnerable
populations free from the risk of tragedy in their homes. While
we have been doing this for decades, there is still much more
to be done. HDR stands ready to work with our partners towards
systemic as well as practical measures at both the Federal and
the local level that will increase the safety of buildings and
better protect the individuals and families who reside in
affordable housing across this State.
I thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I
welcome your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Visnauskas can be found on
page 57 of the appendix.]
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much, Ms. Visnauskas.
I will now recognize myself for 5 minutes for questions.
Ms. Kavanagh, when I grew up in public housing back in the
Cro-Magnon era, the issue of self-closing doors was nothing.
Nobody said anything about doors self-closing, you know? We
just made ourselves vulnerable based on what we know today. And
following the 2017 fire that claimed the lives of 13 people in
a Bronx high rise, the City Council passed a law requiring
self-closing doors in all buildings with three or more
apartments.
Can you explain the function of self-closing doors as it
relates to reducing fatalities and property damage during a
fire emergency?
Ms. Kavanagh. Sure. I would say that I would also recognize
that is not something I knew growing up either, and that is why
public education is very important to us and to me personally.
I don't think it is a given. We would like it to be. We would
like it to be like stop, drop and roll is, something we all
learned so often as kids we don't even know where we learned it
but it is just there. That is what we want, ``close the door,''
to be common, so that is what we are working towards.
But the reason is actually quite simple. It contains the
fire to either the apartment or even the room within the
apartment. And I think that is why this is important to
emphasize even as we increase enforcement for self-closing
doors, because in some cases we may be talking about an
interior door to the bathroom or a bedroom that you could close
and it would contain the fire to that room, and thus contain
the smoke to that room. And as you have heard, in this fire,
smoke was the cause of the deaths, not fire. And so, it is as
simple as containing the fire to as small an area as possible.
Chairman Cleaver. But the malfunctioning doors did
contribute?
Ms. Kavanagh. Correct. In this case, the doors did not
close in a number of areas, not only in the apartment but in
some of the hallways as well.
Chairman Cleaver. Do they require some constant
maintenance? Is there a process by which the Fire Department or
some City Government agency checks the buildings to see if
there is, in fact, compliance?
Ms. Kavanagh. Yes. The Fire Department checks common areas,
and this is one of the things we check, self-closing doors.
HPD, our partner agency, is the one who inspects interior doors
in apartments, so that is not something that we check. But both
agencies have that in their inspection protocol. I am not sure
about the maintenance. I am not an expert in self-closing
doors. But what I would say is there can be a few causes. It is
not always that the same part of the door might malfunction.
Things like putting down a new layer of flooring could cause a
door to get stuck open, which isn't about the hinge
malfunctioning. That is why it is very important to check
frequently.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much.
Mr. Carrion, in 2016, the Housing Opportunity Through
Modernization Act (HOTMA) was signed into law. HOTMA made a
number of changes to statutes that govern HUD programs,
including the establishment of minimum heating standards for
HUD-assisted dwelling units. Residents in public housing have
continued to raise concerns about the temperature of units and
at times reported using equipment such as portable space
heaters or leaving ovens open to stay warm.
How does New York City ensure that housing units meet these
temperature requirements to comply with both Federal and local
laws?
Mr. Carrion. Mr. Chairman, the New York City Department of
Housing Preservation and Development is responsible for
inspecting all of the multifamily, privately-owned residential
buildings in New York City. There are approximately 825,000
residential buildings in New York City, and approximately
212,000 of those are multifamily, privately-owned buildings,
which is an incredible amount of real estate and an incredible
amount of housing units.
We have a proactive and a reactive system. On the reactive
side, it is what every smart municipality does, which is you
create a system where people are able to file complaints and
then you respond to those complaints. We have a corps of
inspectors. We are budgeted for 429 inspectors in our agency.
We currently have 287, so we are short about 142 inspectors.
But we are responsible for going out there and responding to,
in the case of Fiscal Year 2021, in excess of 500,000
complaints that came in, and we did 630,000 inspections in just
one fiscal year and issued 620,000 violations, many of them
heat-related.
But we have a nine-point system, and I want to put it into
context, because every time we go out, we check for health and
we check for fire. We check for lead, mold, carbon dioxide
detectors, mice and roaches, double cylinder locks, smoke
detectors, illegal gates, and self-closing doors. We also
answer heat and hot water complaints.
So, there is a constant drumbeat of inspecting properties,
residential properties throughout New York City, to ensure that
folks have heat, and there is a system of violations where
those violations need to be corrected almost immediately. There
is a clock on those. We are constantly chasing this challenge.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much for your response.
The gentleman from New York, Mr. Torres, is now recognized
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Torres. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We know that if the self-closing door had been properly
functioning at Twin Parks North West, the smoke would have been
contained and countless lives would have been saved.
Local law requires landlords to install and maintain self-
closing doors. In addition to HPD, the housing department, both
the buildings department and the Fire Department, have the
authority to issue violations relating to self-closing doors;
is that correct? And these violations are adjudicated by the
Environmental Control Board, which as of 2020 had $1.5 billion
in uncollected fines. The inability to collect fines raises
serious questions about the effectiveness of the City's
mechanism for enforcing the self-closing door mandate, hence
the need for Federal intervention.
My question to the HPD Commissioner is, if there were a
Federal mandate for self-closing doors, and if you had the
authority to suspend a Section 8 payment to a landlord based on
a violation of that mandate, would that provide the City of New
York with a powerful enforcement tool?
Mr. Carrion. Thank you, Representative Torres. We passed,
and you were in the City Council when it happened, a local law
making the self-closing door a life and safety emergency repair
required condition that needed to be corrected within this 21-
day period that is in the local law. That is a very important
step toward addressing this problem. The housing quality
standard at the Federal level still does not have the self-
closing door as a requirement, and other agencies can speak to
this. We are encouraged by the fact that in our conversations
with HUD, they are moving in that direction, with an expected
date of requiring self-closing doors of September 2023. We are
encouraging that that happens sooner rather than later.
Mr. Torres. And that would enhance your ability to
enforce--
Mr. Carrion. That would create a Federal backstop. It would
show the Federal commitment to this important issue.
Mr. Torres. You spoke about intensified enforcement. Do you
have data on the number of--since the fire in Twin Parks North
West, how many inspections has the City conducted? How many
violations has the City issued in relation to self-closing
doors?
Mr. Carrion. It is an interesting phenomenon. I think it
points to the need for us to educate the public because of that
huge number of violations that we issued, 620,000. Less than
about three-tenths of 1 percent, or 99.7 percent of the
violations issued were not for self-closing doors. We issued
22,000 violations in one fiscal year. Eighty percent of them
were cured, but the violations and the complaints don't quite
match up.
Mr. Torres. What about since the fire? How many
inspections? If you don't have the data, can you get the
committee that information?
Mr. Carrion. I'm sorry. What was the question?
Mr. Torres. The number of inspections and violations since
the fire.
Mr. Carrion. Oh, we can provide that. Certainly, for sure.
Mr. Torres. As you know, the use of space heaters is often
a cry for help, and a cry for heat. And when it comes to heat
in the apartment, common sense dictates that the temperature on
the inside should depend on the temperature on the outside. If
the temperature on the outside is lower than the temperature on
the inside, it should be higher to keep tenants warm. And yet,
during nighttime, New York City law only requires the indoor
temperature to be 62 degrees, regardless of the outdoor
temperature. The outdoor temperature could be 50 degrees or 25
degrees, or zero degrees. No matter what the outdoor
temperature might be, the required indoor temperature at
nighttime remains frozen at 62 degrees.
Does that make sense? Does it make sense to have the same
indoor temperature requirement for zero degree weather as you
would have for 50 degree weather?
Mr. Carrion. I am not a heat expert.
Mr. Torres. At the level of common sense.
Mr. Carrion. Right. Common sense tells you that you might
want to be a little warmer than 62 degrees. I keep my home a
little warmer than that.
We have a heat season that starts in October and runs
through the spring. We are coming up on that heat season, and I
just want to take this opportunity to tell Congress that with
your support, we could increase the corps of inspectors that we
have, the army of inspectors that we have, the creation of
affordable housing, the quality of that affordable housing,
make it modern, smart heating, all the things that our agency
is charged with doing, which is creating high-quality housing
that is affordable to New Yorkers.
Mr. Torres. It seems like you acknowledge that even if the
landlord is providing the legally required amount of heat, what
the law requires might fall short of what tenants would need to
remain warm in their apartment. You acknowledge that at some
level.
Mr. Carrion. I think just as a human being, yes, not as an
official.
Mr. Torres. I am going to wrap up, but how often do HPD and
HCR--both administrators of Section 8, a federally funded,
federally regulated program but administered by local
authorities--conduct Section 8 inspections of apartments in
buildings? And are those inspections proactive or complaint-
based?
Ms. Visnauskas. I will give you a rest. I will go first for
a second.
We go out annually for a project-based voucher. As a tenant
base, we are going out upon lease-up. So, we are going out if
the apartment turns over annually, and on the project-based we
go out and inspect 20 percent of the units every year in those
buildings.
Mr. Torres. Annual inspections? How often? The Section 8
inspections.
Mr. Carrion. Yes. The bonus that the Section 8 voucher
holder in New York City gets is that they get a lot more
inspections from the City of New York than any other agency.
Mr. Torres. How often are those inspections?
Mr. Carrion. But the Section 8 inspections, I am thinking
they are biennial for the housing quality standard. And if I am
wrong, we can correct the record.
Mr. Torres. Get back to us on this.
Mr. Carrion. Yes.
Mr. Torres. So, if I am a tenant with an HDR voucher, and I
submit a complaint about inadequate heat and hot water, do you
just wait a year in order to conduct the inspection, or is
there a complaint-based inspection, and how long would it take
to send a Section 8 inspector to my apartment?
Ms. Visnauskas. If we find a heat issue on the inspection,
to the extent it was a health and safety, it would have to be
corrected within 24 hours. Otherwise, there's a 30-day for all
inspections to be cured if they are not life and safety. But we
also respond to tenant complaints proactively. So if a tenant
calls us and complains, we would go out. We also would refer
tenants to the City's 311, which is really the first line of
defense for issues around heat and hot water as they are
enforcing the housing maintenance code.
Mr. Torres. And I am going to wrap it up.
New York State and New York City have a confusing patchwork
of inspections. There are inspections conducted under Federal,
State, and local law: inspections conducted by HUD at the
Federal level; each year at the State level; HPD/FDNY/DOB at
the local level; there are inspections of public housing
conducted by HUD; inspections of regulated housing conducted by
HCR; inspections of all units conducted by HPD, and inspections
of Section 8 units conducted by HCR, HPD, and NYCHA. This
raises the question, does the left hand know what the right
hand is doing?
Suppose a New York City HPD inspector found a dangerous
condition in a Section 8 rent-regulated unit. Would that HPD
inspector automatically notify the Section 8 administrator--
say, HDR--about the dangerous condition in the Section 8
building? Is there a system of automatic notification among the
various inspectors?
Mr. Carrion. The first level of responsibility is to
contact the landlord, the tenant, start the clock on any
especially emergency condition, and level the penalties
immediately if the condition doesn't get corrected. I have been
on the job for 8 weeks, so I am not entirely sure what the
protocols are between our agencies in terms of sharing that
automatically, but I am sure there is--
Mr. Torres. I suspect there is no system of automatic
coordination and notification. Is that correct, Commissioner?
Ms. Visnauskas. Correct. I think in general, the first line
of defense would go to the City. The City would ensure that
violation is corrected. And certainly in the case of an
emergency violation, immediately. But they would not
necessarily notify us if they--
Mr. Torres. The City is conducting inspections under the
local law, whereas if you are a Section 8 administrator, you
are enforcing housing quality standards under Federal law?
Ms. Visnauskas. Correct.
Mr. Torres. There should be a system of automatic
coordination and notification among Federal, State, and City
inspectors, and I will leave it at that. Thank you.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
The gentlewoman from Pennsylvania, Ms. Dean, is now
recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Dean. Thank you, Chairman Cleaver, and Congressman
Torres, for holding this hearing and for allowing me to
participate. I thank all of our witnesses also for testifying
today.
First, my deepest condolences to the extraordinary loss
that your entire community suffered, and, of course, that we
all suffer after such a tragedy. The devastating fire that
occurred at Twin Parks North is just unforgivable and
preventable. So, I am appreciative of this hearing and the
chance to listen and to learn from all of you.
And while we are in the Bronx today, I wanted to shed light
on what happened and what we can do differently in the future
to avoid another Twin Parks North West.
I wanted to take a moment to focus on a horrific blaze that
occurred in our City, Representative Evans' and mine,
Philadelphia, just days before your tragic fire. In the early
morning hours of January the 5th, a fire broke out in a
Philadelphia row house owned by the Philadelphia Housing
Authority, killing three sisters and nine of their children. In
fact, Mr. Chairman, I have an article from the Philadelphia
Enquirer entitled, ``Remembering Those Lost in the Fairmount
Fire,'' that I will enter into the record.
Chairman Cleaver. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Ms. Dean. My heart breaks for these families. They were
loving mothers, aspiring students. One of their children was a
2-year-old baby. Even more heartbreaking are some of the facts
that have emerged around this fire, not that I am claiming to
have expertise as to causes of fires, but it became clear
through these tragic deaths in Philadelphia that they could
have been prevented with greater safeguards, just like the
things we are talking about today.
In that property in Philadelphia, of the seven smoke alarms
in the house, all of which were the kind that require a
frequent battery replacement, four were in drawers, one was on
the floor without batteries, one was on the ceiling without
batteries, and a final alarm was working but located in the
basement.
I have entered some legislation around smoke detectors in
federally assisted housing, and to authorize $2 million for
public awareness campaigns on health and safety.
My first question really is for Ms. Clayton. I am so sorry
for the loss and the trauma you have suffered. Can you talk
about your experience as a resident in the tower in terms of
the property maintenance, in terms of responsiveness to
complaints by residents of health and safety problems?
Ms. Clayton. Thank you. In response to maintenance, I have
put in a number of complaints about the heating. They will come
and they will look, because we have baseboard heaters. And they
call themselves blowing it out or whatever, because I don't
know what they are doing, okay? So it gets warm for maybe a
day, and we are right back to my normal, putting on my portable
heaters.
Ms. Dean. And that was a common lot within your properties;
is that correct?
Ms. Clayton. Yes.
Ms. Dean. I have dealt with this at the local level here
with private housing, not federally assisted housing, but the
same kind of thing where the property owner responds, puts a
temporary fix, and really never answers the questions around
health and safety.
Mr. Carrion and Ms. Visnauskas, what are some of the
barriers to ensuring that every affordable housing unit has
fully-functioning smoke detectors, for example?
Ms. Visnauskas. I would say--thank you for the question--
that we are very vigilant in our inspections around smoke
detectors, and even in places where they are not always
required when we are doing work in buildings, making sure they
are being installed in the case of preservation and
rehabilitation work. I think in general there is a New York
State, and perhaps similar in some parts of Pennsylvania as
well--the housing stock is very old and it is very much in need
of investment. And I think at the New York State and New York
City level, we have made incredible investments in terms of
capital into the housing stock, but we need more. And we have
been fixed certainly from the perspective of Federal resources,
whether it is Section 8 vouchers or low-income housing tax
credits, tax-exempt volume cap, these resources are the
backbone of the work that we do to invest in the existing
housing stock in this State, and we need more of them, and we
need more of them by a large stretch, and they have been
somewhat stagnant for a decade or more.
So, I think it is incumbent on all of us to keep pressuring
and asking for resources like what was proposed in Build Back
Better so that we can exponentially increase the amount of
investment we are making into the existing housing stock to
make sure things like smoke detectors that are in older
buildings, where they may not be hardwired or may not be
properly functioning, are made safe for all the residents who
live there.
Chairman Cleaver. Congresswoman, we may have another round
of questioning.
Ms. Dean. Thank you. I appreciate those answers, and I
yield back.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania,
Mr. Evans.
Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for inviting me to
participate in this critical field hearing. My congressional
district encompasses parts of the City of Philadelphia, where
in January, as Congresswoman Dean stated, we lost 12 Fairmount
residents in a fatal house fire. Eight of those who died were
children. Our community remains devastated.
But I also appreciate HUD and the House Financial Services
Committee for investigating this particular tragedy, and I
thank Congressman Torres for taking the leadership that he is
showing, since this is obviously not just a problem in New
York, but one that faces our nation.
In the Philadelphia fire, the four smoke detectors were not
functioning. The 3 stories and 2 apartments housed 26 people.
People do not settle for unsafe housing when they have better
choices, but our nation has done little to provide financial
stability and housing support for Black and very low-income
families. They live in places where they are exposed to serious
hazards, and it is important that we address it.
I look forward to working with Mr. Torres on the Financial
Services Committee, and with HUD on Federal policies relating
to financial strategies, particularly for federally assisted
properties.
The site of the fatal Philadelphia fire was old. But, Ms.
Kavanagh, does much of our nation's pre-1992 public housing
stock meet the standards under the Fire Administration
Authorization Act?
Ms. Kavanagh. I can't speak to that Act specifically, but I
can say that the newest constructed housing is the safest. It
is built under the newest codes and has the most safety
protections.
Mr. Evans. What would you suggest in terms of policies
around smoke detectors, involving safety conditions in
federally assisted housing, to prevent similar tragedies from
occurring?
Ms. Kavanagh. I think when it comes to smoke detectors, as
my colleagues have referenced, things like hardwired detectors
are the safest. It means they are less likely to fail, run out
of battery, or even be able to be disabled for a number of
reasons. But in the absence of hardwired detectors, we strongly
encourage and run many of our own programs and give away, as
you heard, thousands of smoke alarms every year to ensure that
those residents who need them have them, especially maybe those
who can't afford them, or seniors who may not be able to put
them up when they fail. So, we run a whole program around that,
about getting detectors into the homes where they are needed.
Mr. Evans. How could Congress and building owners improve
safety measures and reduce fire risk?
Ms. Kavanagh. I think many of the things that we have
discussed here, many of the things that were in the Mayor's
Executive Order will help from the top down. But we continue as
a department to also work, and certainly the departments in
your cities would probably love to do the same or already are
doing the same work from the community level as well, to help
residents know about their lived experiences in buildings and
respond to those specific conditions and get them the materials
that they need and the detectors that they need in their homes.
Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back the
balance of my time.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Evans.
The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York, Mr.
Espaillat.
Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Chairman Cleaver, and I also
thank my colleague, Congressman Torres.
Much has been said about the tragic fires in the Bronx. The
Bronx seems to be the borough that in the past decades has
witnessed and suffered tremendous tragedies with fires. Other
neighborhoods in the City also have a similar housing stock and
also suffer tragedy in fires.
The Fire Administration Authorization Act of 1992 requires
the installation of fire sprinklers in high-rises. Obviously,
much of the housing stock has been built before that, and
probably a lot of the housing stock is currently not meeting
those safety standards established by the Fire Administration
Authorization Act.
I believe very strongly that prevention is driven by
inspection and education. Commissioner Carrion, how many
inspectors does HPD have?
Mr. Carrion. Thank you, Congressman. We are currently
budgeted for 429 inspectors, and I think, before you arrived, I
mentioned that we have approximately 825,000 residential
buildings in New York City, and 212,000 or so multifamily
buildings. We currently have 287 inspectors, so we have
vacancies. We have had severe attrition, so we are trying to
backfill those vacancies. Those are positions that are
budgeted, but we need to backfill them.
Mr. Espaillat. Thank you.
Commissioner Kavanagh, how many fire inspectors do you
have?
Ms. Kavanagh. We do inspections two ways. We have fire
protection inspectors who work out of headquarters and a few of
our district offices. There are approximately 300 of those.
Much like HPD, we have suffered, especially under COVID, some
attrition, unfortunately, the loss of some inspectors, but we
are hiring again now. But our field units are fire field units
who also inspect buildings in their administrative units. And
we have done approximately 40,000 of those in 2021 by field
units.
Mr. Espaillat. Commissioner Visnauskas, how many inspectors
do you have?
Ms. Visnauskas. Housing inspections around the State are
generally handled by the local housing agency.
Mr. Espaillat. How many do you have for New York City?
Ms. Visnauskas. We have about 50 inspectors who do
inspections in our asset management portfolio, but we also have
a series of administrators who are responsible for our Section
8 buildings, and they have inspectors that they hire. I don't
have the full number for--those would really be the inspectors
that are covering all the Federal, the Project-based Section 8
federally subsidized portfolio. They are not centralized State
staff. They are contractors that we use, so I can get back to
you with that number.
Mr. Espaillat. It seems to me that given the conditions of
the housing stock in the Bronx and in other neighborhoods of
the City of New York, the very dilapidated, unsafe conditions
of the housing stock where families live, obviously, that we
don't have enough fire inspectors. And again, prevention is
driven by inspection and education.
And so, Mr. Chairman, we must see how we can assist local
authorities, but also I think that the local authorities have
the responsibility, also the budgetary responsibility, to see
how much more they put in their budget to hire additional
inspectors.
The second issue is education, because there is a direct
connection between education and fire safety. I remember
speaking to Commissioner Kavanagh about this issue. I know that
in this building, in the Twin Parks building, many of the
families were immigrants, and this is a City that is very
diverse. People come from different countries, they speak
different languages, they have different customs.
How diverse, Commissioner Kavanagh, is the fire safety
education initiative program within the City? Is it bilingual?
Trilingual? Do we connect it to the Russian community in
Brighton Beach, the Chinese community in Flushing, the Mexican
community in a barrio, to the Dominican community in the Bronx,
to the African-American community in Harlem and in the Bronx?
How do we address the bilingual and cultural competency needs
of fire safety, and do we have a reliable program that will
educate tenants to take the measures that they need to take to
save their families?
Ms. Kavanagh. We do have everything you mentioned. We do
have bilingual and trilingual fire safety educators. We have
also implemented local field units going and doing education
themselves, and one reason that is so significant is that the
department, as it has diversified, has given first priority to
where a firefighter works, to the neighborhood they grew up in.
And what that also means is that in neighborhood schools, if
you are getting it from your local company, you are far more
likely to be getting somebody who grew up in that neighborhood,
likely speaks the same language as you, maybe comes from a
similar cultural or religious background, and we think that is
really important. So, we are doing all of those things. Our
website also comes in every language imaginable, so you can
download materials in any language you need.
But I would say I think one of the things that has been
significant in the wake of this fire, and that the Adams
administration has done for us is taking down the silos between
agencies and trying to engage the community significantly more.
As a community organizer myself, I really believe that
education is not just about handing out literature, and no
matter how many languages you have it in, it really is about
understanding the local community and engaging it from the
ground up, and so you are seeing a lot more of that. The
connections with clergy following this fire have been very
important, and the connections, I think particularly in the
local schools, where many of the children of these immigrants
attend and are bringing back information to their parents.
Mr. Espaillat. Mr. Chairman, if I may just conclude, this
is a huge undertaking. I cannot guarantee that we have the
tools in place to prevent this from occurring again. Just the
number of properties across the City and the condition that
they are in, the dilapidated, abandoned condition that they are
in requires a robust effort to inspect and to educate, and I
think requires a major investment.
Mr. Chairman, I look forward to working with you and
Congressman Torres and the committee to see how we can assist
the City of New York, and particularly the Bronx, the Borough
of the Bronx, in this endeavor.
Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
I am not sure if Mr. Green from Texas is on the platform or
not.
Mr. Green. Mr. Chairman, can you hear me?
Chairman Cleaver. Yes, we can, but we cannot see you.
Mr. Green. Okay. Well, I am showing on my camera. I am so
sorry. I am mobile at this time and I see myself in the camera,
and I obviously can hear what is going on at the hearing and
see it. But if you can't see me, I will understand and I will
simply say that I appreciate you having the hearing and I look
forward to doing all that I can to help you with the remedies
that are necessary.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr.
Green.
We are going to have another round of questions. We will
give each Member 2 additional minutes to ask a question, and
then I am going to do something I was told not to do.
But we will now start the second round, and I would open
the second round of questioning by asking Ms. Gibson if you can
explain to me--and maybe everybody else knows it--how the
tenant organizations can help articulate the problems to people
in positions of government and how the tenants can become the
eyes and ears that take in information and then give it to the
proper sources.
Ms. Gibson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the question. For
us, the tenant and tenant leaders and organizations on the
ground are credible messengers. They have the ability to
connect and communicate with many of the residents. Oftentimes,
they have a continuity of relationships. And what we have
learned in the days of Twin Parks is that there are credible
messengers on the ground, organizations like the Gambian Youth
Organization (GYO), and the Muslim Community Network. Many of
our Muslim leaders and other community leaders of different
faiths have really come together and really surrounded these
families with love and support. And of course, the first
priority was to guarantee that there would be hotel
accommodations in the immediate days after January 9th, and
now, weeks later, we are still working to accommodate long-term
relocation efforts for the families.
But what we have also learned and what you typically will
learn in the event of these types of tragedies is that there
are many families in our City and in our State who are doubled
and tripled up. You have many families with multiple children,
large families who are living in apartments that are not
conducive to their household size.
What we have been able to do on the ground with
organizations like BronxWorks and CVR is a lot of intensive
case management, understanding the household needs, the
household size, and the household incomes. There are working-
class families in this building where many of the families had
working income, and so many of them need to be accommodated as
well.
Working with a lot of our tenant organizations like GYO and
others, we have been able to understand a lot of the very
unique needs of many of these families, immigrant families who
come from so many different places, parts of West Africa, the
African American and the Latino community. We have been able to
really navigate and help understand what they are going through
every day.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much.
My 2 minutes are up, but we are going to try to get Mr.
Green from Texas on. If you can't see him, I am describing him
as a very handsome, youthful man, athletically built.
[laughter]
Mr. Green, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Green. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for those
very kind words. My mother would love you for that. Thank you.
I do have a question. As you know, the American Rescue Plan
provided some $20 million to fix the Fair Housing Initiative
Program, and we have some $70 million proposed in the Build
Back Better Act. My question has to do with safety and how this
additional money could be a benefit.
Is there someone who would like to respond to how an
additional $70 million could help us with some of the issues
that we are currently confronting? And I do want you to know
that these issues touch our hearts, because people are losing
their lives, and the title for the hearing is most appropriate.
Would someone kindly respond to the question with reference to
providing an additional $70 million to this program?
Chairman Cleaver. Any of the panelists?
Ms. Visnauskas. Is the funding specifically targeted to
outreach, or is it another thing?
Mr. Green. The funding is from the Fair Housing Initiative
Program and is for enforcement with these new funds, to help
you with enforcement.
Ms. Visnauskas. I think I could sort of just table set and
say I think we all believe on this panel that there is a big
opportunity with our Federal counterparts at HUD to be better
coordinated on communication. It certainly has been something
from the Hochul administration day one, and down towards the
Adams administration around better communication and
coordination. I think funding with a coordinated strategy in
New York City and really statewide around space heaters, around
self-closing doors is really critical, and we rely on tenants
to understand also when something isn't working, that they know
whom to call and they know that they can report it. Oftentimes,
people are afraid to report things that are wrong in their
apartment, so sort of addressing that issue I think as part of
an outreach plan would certainly be something that I think all
of us at this table would be happy to utilize funding to really
make sure people understand what type of enforcement is
available and what their rights are.
Chairman Cleaver. Mr. Carrion?
Mr. Carrion. If I may, Mr. Chairman, just echo that to the
Member, the good-looking gentleman from Texas, we would be
deeply appreciative for an additional $70 million in Fair
Housing Initiative funds that advanced safety in housing, both
private and public. That is our challenge, doing that, and it
is part of our mission to enforce the Fair Housing laws. We
would deeply appreciate that.
And let me say that, very quickly, one of the problems that
we face here, going back to Congressman Espaillat's comment
about education, is that we get so few complaints from certain
pockets of the population, from certain buildings. The number
of complaints for self-closing doors was infinitesimally small.
And now, with the Mayor's Executive Order that brings the Fire
Department and the HPD together to address this issue and
enhance education, this $70 million would go a long way.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
Mr. Green. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am grateful for the
time, and I yield back.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York, Mr.
Torres.
Mr. Torres. Madam Borough President, you have been in City
and State Government for more than a decade, and City and State
Government can be siloed, and I worry about a lack of
coordination and communication among the inspectors at various
levels of government. Not only is Twin Parks North West subject
to the housing code and the fire code and the building code,
all of which have their own inspectors, but the tenants have
Section 8 vouchers from three administrators--HPD, HCR, and
NYCHA--all of which have their own inspection regimes. So, the
patchwork of housing inspections is often more of a cacophony
than a symphony. Do you share those concerns?
Ms. Gibson. I do, and I think it is important that we
continue to work together and have interagency coordination
from HUD, from HCR, from HPD, and from the Mayor's Executive
Order making sure that there is more consistency on
inspections. When you hear the numbers--and I agree with
Congressman Espaillat--we need to make sure that we are at our
budgeting capacity on all of the inspectors that we have at
HPD, and HCR, as well as FDNY, because it is really important.
Tenants feel a sense of calling 311 multiple times and not
getting any response, or it taking days for inspectors to come
out, and by the time the inspectors come out, those issues are
sometimes corrected, and sometimes, they are not.
I think that while we encourage New Yorkers to call 311, we
have to make sure that there is a consistency on the inspectors
that are coming out and that the agencies are actually working
together. I think in all of these tragedies, because since Twin
Parks on January 9th, we have had a series of other fires far
less fatal where we have not had any fatalities, thank God, but
we have had a lot of displaced families. We have had fires in
Morris Park, in Allerton, in Parkchester, and in other parts of
the Bronx, and we have a number of families right now who are
housed in area hotels.
And so, it has called into question not only the housing
stock, the aging infrastructure of some of our housing stock,
and the usage of safe space heaters that sometimes are not
working and the faultiness of that, but also holding landlords
accountable and making sure that they do the work that they are
supposed to do. I agree that there has to be more coordination,
and if we learn anything from Twin Parks, we have to learn that
coordination is critically important in keeping affordable
housing safe and essential for New Yorkers.
Mr. Torres. And if I can squeeze in one more question to
the Commissioners, what can the Federal Government do to create
a system that enables all inspectors at every level of
government to coordinate and communicate and talk to each
other? How do we create more interoperability?
Ms. Visnauskas. I certainly think HUD convening us for a
conversation like that would be incredible. As you said, with
the HQS inspections being done by NYCHA, by HPD, and by HCR, as
well as other Federal inspection regimes, I think making sure
they are coordinated across them all and making sure that we
are all coordinated up and down the chain, I think would be
great. As we come out of an important hearing like this with
things to do to make things better would really be an important
first step in that effort.
Ms. Kavanagh. Yes, I would agree with that, and also say
that this data sharing between agencies at different levels is
really important. Obviously, we have increased our coordination
significantly under the Executive Order with our fellow City
agencies, but getting that coordination and that data--our
inspection regime is based on a risk-based algorithm. So, the
more data that algorithm has about the experiences of
residents, about the violations at maybe other levels of
government that we don't have, makes our algorithm more
powerful. It means we are getting to the buildings most in need
more often.
Mr. Carrion. Congressman, I agree with those points made by
my colleagues. We currently have task forces that we sit on at
the local level that include the Department of Buildings, the
Department of Investigations, the Fire Department, and the
Department of Health and Mental Health, but that is at the
local level. I think there is an opportunity for us to do it at
different levels of government. When I served as HUD Regional
Administrator, we convened locally the HCR Commissioner or the
HPD Commissioner and the NYCHA Chair on a regular basis. That
was just sort of a symbolic gesture at the time, and we tried
to figure out how best to coordinate our efforts. But, in fact,
at the national level across the many municipalities, the
thousands of municipalities, if the Federal Government can step
in and encourage and cajole that kind of activity, that would
be very helpful.
Mr. Torres. My time has expired.
Chairman Cleaver. The gentlewoman from Pennsylvania, Ms.
Dean, is now recognized for 2 minutes.
Ms. Dean. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
I will go back to something that Ms. Clayton said about
warning systems, and that the fire alarm would go off so often
as a false alarm in the building that they got to the point of
not thinking it was an urgent call for the residents to get
out.
Commissioner Carrion and Commissioner Kavanagh, could you
speak to the state of play in public housing in New York around
smoke detectors, hardwired or not, functioning within the
buildings or not, and what your inspections showed there, what
percentage of our public housing stock has safe, working smoke
detectors?
Mr. Carrion. Congresswoman, thank you, and our condolences
to you, from one city to another, on your loss on January 5th.
Our army of inspectors goes out every day. They did so
right through the pandemic, nonstop, and they check nine very
important items: lead, mold, carbon monoxide detectors, mice
and roaches; and then they do a four-point test on fire safety:
double cylinder locks, smoke detectors, illegal gates, and
self-closing doors. By the way, HUD is now looking to add to
their housing quality standard. If any of those systems is not
working, we issue a violation right away. And on the smoke
detectors and self-closing doors, those are to be corrected
immediately.
Ms. Dean. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I see my extra time has expired. I thank you
for offering that to me. I yield back.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania,
Mr. Dwight Evans.
Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to ask the president of the borough the same
question I asked Ms. Kavanagh. Do you have any suggestions in
terms of saying to Congress, incentivize building owners to
improve safety measures? What would you suggest?
Ms. Gibson. Thank you for the question. I definitely think
that increasing more inspections in federally assisted HUD
buildings would be great. I think having the Federal presence
on the ground is a critical part of this work. I definitely
think that access to additional HUD vouchers will be great.
What we have learned in Twin Parks is that many of the
working families were not initially eligible for vouchers and
many of them felt that they should be accommodated, although
they have working income. But because of the trauma faced by
the fire at Twin Parks--and they also think that there needs to
be Federal intervention when it comes to the regulation of
space heaters. Space heaters do not have automatic shutoffs,
and sometimes, if you buy them in certain parts of our City,
they are inexpensive but they are not necessarily the best
quality. But families in our City are forced to use space
heaters because of insufficient heat by their landlords and
management companies.
I think if we had access to additional vouchers, as well as
more Federal oversight in terms of inspections of self-closing
doors and the regulation of space heaters, I think that would
be a great step of progress.
Mr. Evans. Thank you. I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York, Mr.
Espaillat.
Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Following up on the borough president and space heaters, it
almost seems like a natural thought to me, having represented
districts with the highest concentration of rent-stabilized
apartments, and now the highest number of NYCHA units, that any
time there is a fire, almost my automatic response is there
must be a space heater involved in it. And it comes as a result
of lack of heat, and it is not usually on the cold days. On
really cold days, you get the heat. It is on days like today,
not too cold, and not too warm.
Commissioner, could you give us the breakdown on what the
regulations are of when landlords are supposed to provide heat,
just a Heat 101 course?
Mr. Carrion. Congressman, I wish I could do the Heat 101
course. I will tell you in very general terms that our heat
season starts in October and goes through the spring. I believe
the temperature outside has to be below 55 for heat to be
required, or something like that.
Mr. Espaillat. Fifty-five for the heat?
Mr. Carrion. I believe so. And again, the record might be
corrected.
Mr. Espaillat. So on a day like today, you are not getting
any heat, but the temperature may dip down to 40 later on this
afternoon.
Mr. Carrion. Yes.
Mr. Espaillat. I think there is a problem there. I get a
lot of complaints from seniors and families that they are not
getting enough heat, and I think if the day starts at 55 or 57
degrees but it dips down to 40, at night it is going to be very
cold, and they are going to turn on that heater, and that
contributes to the number of fires. Is there anything that the
City can do to regulate better, maybe increase the threshold
for landlords to provide heat?
Mr. Carrion. I will tell you, not just as a Commissioner,
but also having served on the City Council and as Borough
President number 12, that this is an ongoing debate. Is the
threshold temperature at the right place, and are the dates
correct? I am not prepared to address that as Commissioner, but
I certainly am interested in coming back to the committee with
some expert advice.
Mr. Espaillat. Let me just conclude, Mr. Chairman, and say
that it is rampant, the numbers of complaints that I get in
NYCHA buildings and rent-stabilized buildings about a lack of
heat on days like today. Something is wrong there, and I think
that is forcing families to go to the local store and buy that
space heater that will then potentially, because of the bad
quality of the equipment itself, and other matters as well,
contribute to these tragic fires.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
We now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green.
Mr. Green. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman. I did not thank
you appropriately enough. This hearing is most important
because this involves multiple places, not just one city, and
it is important also because we are losing lives. I don't know
how we can allow what we see to happen and not make the kind of
inquiry that you are making. So, I am eternally grateful to you
for giving us this opportunity to address some of these issues.
Having listened to the questions and heard the responses, I
have one final commentary, and it is that I stand ready and
willing to work with my colleagues. We have a number of pieces
of legislation proposed. Having had an opportunity to peruse
them in a very cursory way, I find favor with them, and I look
forward to seeing us flesh them out so that they can become a
part of the healing process, and this is a great opportunity
for us to do some good. I look forward to working with my
colleagues on this good agenda.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Green.
Just as we close out this hearing--we normally don't do
this, but, Ms. Clayton, is there a question that we did not
ask? Is there a question that should be asked? Is there
something that you want to know?
Ms. Clayton. Thank you. My question is, why is it that it
is only once a year that the buildings or the apartments are
inspected? Me personally, I think they should be inspected at
least 3 times a year.
Chairman Cleaver. Anybody else?
Ms. Visnauskas. It is a great question to ask, and I think
that we would all say that I think we are in lots of buildings
multiple times, and I think that in the case of this building,
certainly for our inspections, we didn't have any heat
complaints. And so, there is also sort of a disconnect I think
on some level between the lived experience of the people in the
building and what is showing up on the inspection reports, and
I think that is a complicated issue to tackle about the
efficacy or what is required in the inspections, if we did them
more, would we get more, if we still got the same outcome or
not in the right place.
I think it is a great question to ask. I don't necessarily
have an answer about doing it more as much as to sort of
acknowledge that I think that there is a little bit of a
disconnect in what we see when we go out there and what is
actually happening, and we have to get at the root of that.
And I also think it goes back to investment in older
housing stock, and we just have to be making sure that we are
making capital investments in multifamily buildings occupied by
low-income households, by seniors, by children, and by every
vulnerable population we have in this City, to make sure that
they are living in safe, warm apartments. It is essential, and
that is a big ask of the Federal Government and for State and
locals to do that kind of investment, but it is really at a
crisis point and we need it.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
Ms. Kavanagh. I think I would just second that, actually,
and say that I think we had a good takeaway from this hearing,
which is to meet with our Federal and State partners because
the additional data, especially from the residents, can make a
difference in how often we inspect a building.
Mr. Carrion. And if I can just close out with this: We had
the same experience. We have a lot of visits to buildings, a
lot of inspections. You heard the numbers, and they are huge,
620,000 violations, et cetera. But then we look at the history
of a particular building and we find that there were 10 or 12
heat complaints. And then, this fire happens.
And so, I think there is an element here that is the tenant
human element of maybe a fear of complaining for fear of
reprisal that we are going to have to really deal with, and
that is an issue for us to take up as we go forward.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ms.
Clayton. Thank you for raising that issue. You are the person
who is most impacted by the questions and the answers and the
actions that are forthcoming.
I would like to thank all of you, all of the witnesses, for
your testimony today.
We are going to take a 5-minute recess before the next
panel, which is a panel from the U.S. Department of Housing and
Urban Development (HUD).
And let me thank all of the Members who are on the virtual
screen. If you are able to stay, we appreciate it.
But we will take 5 minutes to change witnesses. Thank you.
[brief recess]
Chairman Cleaver. --our first panel of testimony today.
Next, we have Ms. Ashley Sheriff, who is the Acting Deputy
Assistant Secretary with the Real Estate Assessment Center at
HUD, who will be appearing as a technical witness for us today.
As a reminder to our witnesses, you are limited to 5
minutes, and without objection, your written statements will be
made a part of the record.
Ms. Ampry-Samuel, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to
give an oral presentation of your testimony.
STATEMENT OF ALICKA AMPRY-SAMUEL, REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR,
REGION II, DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT (HUD),
ACCOMPANIED BY ASHLEY SHERIFF, ACTING DEPUTY ASSISTANT
SECRETARY, REAL ESTATE ASSESSMENT CENTER, DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING
AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT
Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you
so much. Chairman Cleaver and members of the committee, I am
honored to have been invited to address the Committee on
Financial Services.
Appointed by President Biden, I serve as the United States
Department of Housing and Urban Development's Regional
Administrator for New York and New Jersey. I was born in
Brooklyn and grew up in NYCHA public housing, so the
opportunity to address you all today on matters of safety in
HUD housing is particularly personal. Prior to serving HUD
Secretary Fudge and President Biden, I had the honor of
representing Brooklyn as the City Councilwoman for the New York
City Council District 41, which has the largest concentration
of public housing in the country.
Above all else, I want to first offer my condolences to the
families of the victims of the tragic fire at Twin Parks North
West and let them know that HUD continues to do whatever it can
to support you in this time of grief and need. And thank you,
Ms. Clayton, for sharing your story. No loss of life due to
fires or other health hazards, wherever it occurs, is
acceptable to us, and we grieve with you, and we are here to
support you.
While it is beyond our authorities to manage fire
prevention in every home, HUD takes very seriously the role we
play in fire and safety standards in HUD-assisted housing. As a
former NYCHA resident, I am extremely passionate about carrying
forward this work that is a top priority for Secretary Fudge.
Although we can sadly not change the events that made this
hearing necessary, I am here today to discuss the substantial
work HUD is doing to make its housing safer in the Bronx, in
Philadelphia, and in all communities nationwide.
In March of 2020, HUD paused its health and safety
inspections due to the risk of COVID exposure. In April of
2021, Secretary Fudge announced that HUD would resume health
and safety inspections of its approximately 35,000 multifamily
and public housing properties on June 1st of 2021. Secretary
Fudge set a bold goal for HUD of completing inspections of all
multifamily and public housing properties by September 30,
2023. I am pleased to report that since restarting inspections,
HUD has inspected over 13,000 multifamily and public housing
properties and is ahead of schedule for inspecting 100 percent
of these properties by September 30th of 2023. This would be
the first time HUD has done this in an approximately 2-year
span.
HUD has made tremendous progress to substantially improve
its physical inspections across all HUD-assisted housing. In
this effort, the National Standards for the Physical Inspection
of Real Estate, known as NSPIRE, would emphasize resident
health and safety and standardize inspection requirements
across HUD's rental programs, as opposed to the two standards
that are used today. NSPIRE also includes several new and more
stringent health and safety requirements for smoke alarms,
carbon monoxide detectors, fire doors, electrical systems, and
infestation. NSPIRE would provide an opportunity for tenants to
provide formal feedback about their unit's condition that could
be used to prioritize inspections and address urgent concerns.
For fire safety, NSPIRE standards would implement the
National Fire Protection Association 72, which is the
preeminent national standard for smoke detectors and fire
signaling. It also would establish a minimum temperature
requirement and require a permanent heating source, allowing
residents to live more comfortably and be less reliant on
supplemental heat sources.
In conclusion, I thank you for your attention and
dedication to keeping our HUD families safe. HUD shares this
commitment, and we know that there is more that the Federal
Government must do. Beyond inspections, much of the public and
multifamily housing stock is in need of significant repairs and
renovation. President Biden and Secretary Fudge stand behind
House-passed proposals to significantly increase funding that
will restore housing developments across the country so that
people can live in safe, healthy housing of which they can be
proud.
On behalf of Secretary Fudge, HUD appreciates your ongoing
support of NSPIRE initiatives; and as the new HUD Regional
Administrator, I thank you for holding a field hearing in this
community, my community, that has suffered such tremendous
tragedy at Twin Parks North West. I look forward to working
with you to serve this community. It was an honor to speak with
you, and I am happy to answer any questions. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Ampry-Samuel can be found on
page 40 of the appendix.]
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much, and let me
congratulate you on your appointment to this significant
position.
I represent Kansas City, Missouri, and we are having an
issue right now with one of our major developments failing an
inspection. I want to just, if I can, spend my 5 minutes
dealing with this issue of inspections. And I recognize that
you have only been doing the job for a short period of time,
but how many HUD-assisted properties received a failing score
during their last inspection, and what percentage of the total
HUD-assisted portfolio does this represent?
Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that
question. Because it is such a technical issue, I would like to
have the Deputy Assistant Secretary, Ash Sheriff, respond to
that question.
Chairman Cleaver. Okay. Thank you.
Ms. Sheriff. Great. Thank you, Chairman Cleaver, and thank
you for the opportunity to be here today. It is an honor to
participate in this hearing. And thank you for your attention
to these issues.
Approximately 5 percent, a little less than 5 percent of
properties fail our Real Estate Assessment Center (REAC)
inspections, at least based on the most recent REAC inspections
conducted of both the public housing and the multifamily
portfolios. Certainly, we at HUD view any failing property as
problematic, and we want to get that number to zero percent
ultimately, where we have no failing properties.
But unfortunately, we do have failing properties, and you
mentioned one in your community of Kansas City, Parade Park
Homes East, which we are very well aware of, and certainly we
want to do everything we can within our power at HUD in terms
of both using our inspections as well as our other oversight
monitoring and enforcement tools to make sure that we are
raising the level of housing in our properties.
Certainly, as has been discussed on the previous panel, as
well as in this forum in the Regional Administrator's opening
statement, HUD housing is in need of investment, and 73 percent
of our housing was built before 1984, at least for the public
housing portfolio, and declining investment in public housing
results in declining physical condition. So, we work with our
housing partners to help them do what they can to maintain safe
and healthy housing, and the inspections are one part of it,
but there are other components to ensuring that housing is
safe, healthy, and of good quality for our HUD families.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you. Parade Park actually should
have failed the REAC inspection. Had they passed it, I would
have been here with another whole list of questions and issues
and anger.
But what happens when a housing choice voucher unit
receives a failing inspection? What is the next step, and then,
the next step?
Ms. Ampry-Samuel. I am going to have to ask our Deputy
Assistant Secretary to respond to that one too, because it is a
very technical question.
Ms. Sheriff. Sure, and thank you again, Chairman Cleaver.
When a housing choice voucher unit or a voucher unit fails
inspection, it depends on whether or not the unit is occupied
at that time. Prior to a family moving into a unit, a housing
quality standard inspection is required to take place. If that
inspection results in a failed unit, the family is not allowed
or the household is not allowed to occupy that unit. If it is
one of, for example, the annual housing quality standard
inspections that take place typically and a family is already
in the unit, there are multiple requirements in place to ensure
that unit is brought up to the conditions that we expect and
meets our health and safety standards.
First and foremost, they have to address the health and
safety issues within 24 hours. That is a requirement across all
of our inspection protocols. Where life-threatening defects
have been identified, it is HUD's expectation that those are
remediated as quickly as possible, and those need to be
certified to either HUD or the public housing agency that
administers those vouchers.
For other defects, they typically have to be addressed
within 30 days. If the defects, Chairman Cleaver, are not
remediated in the timeframe specified by HUD, HUD has a number
of tools at its disposal and works with its public housing
agencies accordingly, and PHAs, and it is important to
recognize that PHAs manage the contract with the owners and
landlords of those units. But under HUD requirements, those
PHAs could abate those housing assistance payments (HAPs) to
owners/landlords, and that is a compelling way to bring about
the changes and the remediation necessary.
In extreme circumstances where the housing assistance
payments have been abated, and these deficiencies have not been
corrected, the PHA should terminate the contract and find an
alternative rental unit for the family.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
The Chair now recognizes Mr. Green of Texas for 5 minutes.
Mr. Green. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman, for your kindness
and for your caring as well.
I am most appreciative to you, Madam Regional
Administrator, for indicating that you are sympathetic with the
plight of persons who are suffering at this time. It means
something to me to hear that come from you as an Administrator.
I am concerned about the inspections, and I am appreciative
that you are doing what you can through NSPIRE to improve
standards. I think this is important, and I believe that the
Fair Housing Initiative Program (FHIP), as I mentioned earlier,
is of great benefit in this process. We have tried in Congress
to make sure that FHIP is properly funded such that it can be
of assistance to you. The Fair Housing Initiative Program
allows for some help for you, help with enforcement. Can you
just address how the Fair Housing Initiative Program, or Ms.
Sheriff as the Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary, how this
program helps you with the enforcement as it relates to these
issues that we are confronting?
Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Thank you so much, Congressman, for that
question, and it is something that we discuss all the time.
Entities that receive FHIP resources help people who believe
they have been victims of housing discrimination, which
includes when the protected group has limited access to high-
quality, safe, accessible housing. And on health and safety,
FHIP organizations can play a critical role in raising
awareness of emerging issues in communities to Federal, State,
and local governments, as well as assisting with fair housing
investigations that seek to remedy such concerns. Resources for
FHIP entities allow them to advertise their services, and
educate tenants on their rights, and all of these things can
have a deterrent effect if there is something going wrong or
potential wrongdoers.
So, assistance and being able to get funding around these
resources, in particular for the Fair Housing Initiative
Program, is critical, and I am not sure if the Deputy Assistant
Secretary wants to jump in, if I am leaving anything out, but
this is very critical and needed, and this is something that we
discuss all the time.
Mr. Green. Thank you. I welcome any commentary from the
Deputy Assistant Secretary if she has some.
Ms. Sheriff. I think the Regional Administrator covered it
very well, and certainly I will add with respect to inspections
in particular that we believe what we are trying to do under
NSPIRE is very much aligned with what we are trying to do to
promote fair housing and fair housing outcomes for residents.
We know that 66 percent of residents of public and assisted
HUD housing are members of communities of color, and it is
critical that their housing is as safe and decent and sanitary
as the housing that is available to market-ready residents. And
so, we have made that a priority of what we are trying to do
with NSPIRE, and we have had resident workshops, and worked
with our Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, and they
have commented on our standards, and we believe that the lived
experiences of those residents are absolutely critical to
developing our NSPIRE standards and making sure that those
standards promote housing that is fair and equal with other
residential housing that is available to market-rate renters
and owners.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you very much, Ms. Sheriff.
And we will now recognize the gentleman who is responsible
for requesting that we do this hearing, the gentleman from New
York, Mr. Torres.
Mr. Torres. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Regional Director Ampry-Samuel, before you were the
Regional Director, before I was a Congressman, before Vanessa
Gibson was the Borough President, we were all on the City
Council and we passed a law that established a New York City
heat sensor program. Heat sensors have the ability to monitor
and report heating levels in apartments in real time so that
you can hold landlords accountable for providing tenants with
heat and hot water. During the heating season of 2020 to 2021,
the HPD pilot program led to the installation of heat sensors
in 26 buildings with a history of heat violations and
complaints. Among those buildings with heat sensors, complaints
fell by 56 percent. Among those buildings with heat sensors,
seven buildings had one violation, two buildings had two
violations, and none of the buildings had more than two
violations. Indeed, one building had 500 fewer heat complaints
than it did in the previous heating season.
Given the success of the City's local heat sensor program,
would HUD support the creation of a Federal heat sensor
program?
Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Thank you so much, Congressman Torres.
And I just have to say in this quick moment of time that it is
an honor to be in this position before you as a Member of
Congress.
HUD shares your commitment to fire safety, and I know that
our HUD headquarters has been engaged with your staff, your
team, and your committee as it relates to the proposed bills,
and we all are working towards the same goals. And I have to
say that with NSPIRE--and I know we have talked about this
before--those standards also contain enhanced fire safety
standards which address many of the issues that you have
outlined, and we are doing that now. We have rolled out NSPIRE
as a pilot program to be fully introduced by 2023 across all of
our properties. And so, we are doing that under NSPIRE.
But I can say that our staff, our team at HUD headquarters
will continue to engage with your committee so that we can all
be working towards the same goal.
Mr. Torres. As you know, I have legislation that would
require self-closing doors in federally funded affordable
housing developments. But earlier, Commissioner Carrion from
the New York City Housing Department, the Housing Preservation
Development Agency, testified that HUD was moving in the
direction of mandating self-closing doors as part of HQS
standards by rule, by regulation. Is that accurate, and what is
the timeline for finalizing such a rule?
Ms. Ampry-Samuel. I will ask Ash Sheriff to chime in on
that. But I did want to say quickly that there are, and I
recognize just from your previous comments that there are
several standards, safety standards. We have HQS, we have REAC,
we have the UPCS. So again, with NSPIRE, it would be a way to
make that more consistent across HUD-assisted and unassisted
properties. But I will have the Deputy Assistant Secretary
chime in.
Ms. Sheriff. Thank you, Congressman Torres. We have greatly
appreciated working with your committee, and we have evaluated
the legislation through the formal technical drafting service
process. You are correct that under the NSPIRE regulations that
are proposed right now, we will be increasing the standards and
including a requirement for self-closing fire doors, and that
will apply to all HUD housing. So, it will apply to the public
housing portfolio, the multifamily portfolio, and voucher
units. Where our standards are not aligned today, NSPIRE will
align our standards for all types of HUD housing, so that
wherever you live, if you are a resident of HUD housing, your
unit will be subject to the same, more stringent requirements
that we are proposing under NSPIRE, and that includes for self-
closing fire doors, that includes--
Mr. Torres. What is the timeline? Just to interject.
Ms. Sheriff. Yes, I apologize. We hope to have NSPIRE
implemented by the end of Fiscal Year 2023, September 30, 2023.
However, I will say we are already conducting NSPIRE
demonstration inspections and have done over 400 of those
inspections so far.
Mr. Torres. My time is actually running out, so I just
wanted to check in. I pointed out earlier that government is
heavily siloed. There is a patchwork of housing inspections at
every level of government. I will take as an example Twin Parks
North West. Not only is Twin Parks North West subject to the
fire code and the building code and the housing code, all of
which have their own inspectors, but the tenants have vouchers
from three State and local Section 8 administrators--HPD,
NYCHA, and HDR. And there is no system to ensure that these
inspectors are coordinating and communicating and talking to
each other.
Is HUD willing to play a role in convening all of these
inspection regimes in the hopes of creating a system that
breaks down these silos and enables these inspectors to talk to
each other?
Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Congressman, I wanted to mention that
Commissioner Carrion mentioned that when he was the Regional
Administrator, he started these quarterly meetings, and those
meetings have not stopped. And as the new Regional
Administrator, I too will continue with those quarterly
meetings so that everyone will be able to sit at the table and
be able to discuss what is happening and work together towards
the safety standards, and I have already started. I had my
first meeting with HPD and HDC and the Mayor's Office, and so
we are starting that, we started that about a month ago. And we
are committed to making sure that we are having these quarterly
meetings so that we can have a more consistent way of having
safety standards for our residents.
Mr. Torres. I see my time has expired. Thank you so much.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
The Chair now recognizes Congresswoman Dean for 5 minutes.
Ms. Dean. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, again for
convening now this second panel to talk about these critically
important issues to all of our communities. And I want to thank
our public servants in HUD. Thank you for the extraordinarily
important work that you do, and thank you for sharing your
knowledge and experience and information with us today.
I had talked with the previous panel about the twin
tragedies: on January 5th in Philadelphia, the rowhouse fire
killing twelve, three sisters and nine of their children; and,
of course, the fire that we are more focused on today. I am
wondering if HUD, following those tragedies within days of each
other, had any emergency meetings or after-action items that
took place as a result of these twin tragedies, recognizing
that there are many other fires and other tragedies, but these
were just so striking. Was there any action by HUD in response
to the two fires?
Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Thank you. Thank you so much,
Congresswoman, for your question. Again, my condolences to the
families in Philadelphia as well.
There is a procedure at HUD when there are incidents to
this level and we are talking about tragedy and disasters,
these fires, that is something that is automatically flagged by
our Secretary herself, and our Deputy Secretary. HUD reached
out to the public housing agency in Philadelphia. HUD reached
out immediately to folks on the ground in the Bronx, and we had
meetings right away. But because I wasn't there at that
particular time, I was not the Regional Administrator, I will
ask the Deputy Assistant Secretary to step in. But I know that
just from briefings today, we are still briefing every single
day about the fires. There is a weekly meeting held to make
sure that families are receiving the services that they are
supposed to be receiving. But I will have the Deputy Assistant
Secretary step in.
Ms. Sheriff. Thank you, Congresswoman Dean. Yes, I was in
my capacity at the time, and there were several emergency
meetings immediately once we found out about both of those
terrible tragedies, and I share my condolences as well. And we
continue to meet on a daily basis about what we can do to
prevent those types of tragedies in the future, in addition to
providing kind of localized assistance to the families. We have
started looking at everything that we can do from a health and
safety standpoint, not just through NSPIRE, but are there more
short-term things that we can do. We have offered assistance to
the housing agencies that were involved in both cases, and we
have even offered up our inspectors to come up and supplement
inspections of those particular housing agencies.
So, this is something we take very seriously. As the head
of the Real Estate Assessment Center, I can honestly say that
week was the worst week of my professional career. We take
these issues very seriously, and we want to do what we can to
prevent these types of tragedies in the future.
Ms. Dean. I appreciate that. And something else I was
thinking about in terms of your work and reviews of these
tragedies and your assistance is the state of the art on
sprinkler systems. We know, for example, in the Philadelphia
fire, what I understand from reading and speaking to those on
the ground is it was an extremely fast-moving fire, and had
there been a working sprinkler system, it could have prevented
some of that horror, maybe put the fire out well in advance. I
get that fire sprinkler systems, retrofitting older buildings,
is expensive, and I know in both public housing and private
housing there are going to be property owners, landlords
resistant to that. I have combated that at the local level in
my own communities where a property owner is fully renovating a
building but doesn't want to go to the expense of putting in
sprinkler systems, as he or she should.
I am a co-sponsor of legislation by Congresswoman Bonnie
Watson Coleman, the Public Housing Fire Safety Act, that would
create a HUD grant program for public housing agencies to
install automatic sprinkler systems. I know my time is running
low, but can you speak to that legislation and HUD's
perspective on moving us into the next century and retrofitting
buildings with sprinkler systems?
Ms. Sheriff. Congresswoman Dean, I can answer that. We
welcome any efforts and corresponding funding to retrofit HUD
housing and bring HUD housing up to better physical condition
with modern technologies like fire suppression systems such as
sprinkler systems. And certainly, the aging/aged housing that
we have in our portfolio is extremely expensive to retrofit.
However, that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be something that
should be addressed. And if you look at the language of the
1992 Fire Administration Act, it says that any new construction
and/or substantially rebuilt construction should be built with
these types of systems in place.
Because HUD housing is old, and because we have not been
able to keep up with the backlog of physical needs, it has been
hard to do those substantial rebuilds that would be required.
But certainly, those types of systems have proven to be
extremely effective in protecting life in these circumstances.
Ms. Dean. We will keep fighting for that, and I admire my
colleague for putting forward the legislation.
Again, thank you both for your work, and I yield back, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania,
Mr. Dwight Evans.
Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I appreciate HUD's effort to respond to the fatal fires in
my congressional district in Philadelphia, and Mr. Torres'
leadership that he has taken not just in his particular
district but for what is occurring.
To the Regional Administrator, I would like to ask you, can
you explain the connection between Federal disinvestment,
affordable housing shortages, and the increase in the fire
risk?
Ms. Ampry-Samuel. Thank you so much, Congressman, for your
question. Yes, we know that far too many people with low
incomes, especially people of color with low incomes, live in
deteriorating housing, and affordable housing is scarce in
Brooklyn and in Pennsylvania, and we must preserve whatever
affordable housing that we absolutely can.
President Biden supports increased funding to rehabilitate/
redevelop public and private affordable housing, and we know
that was part of the Build Back Better legislation, which
included $170 billion for affordable housing investments. But
we also know that there is increased fire risk in older housing
stock because safety standards have to be evolved, they have to
be modernized, and that is what we keep talking about over and
over and over, that even though we have this deteriorating
housing stock, we need to make sure that our safety standards
are speaking about the issues that we see today. And as we
renovate or redevelop housing, we also bring that housing up to
modern-day safety standards.
So, more funding is needed. I can talk about that over and
over and over, but that funding will help us to improve fire
safety and other health and safety concerns for our residents.
And there is a connection between Federal housing investments
and fire risk, and we know that requires, like we have been
talking about today, more funding and more modern safety
standards.
Mr. Evans. I would like to piggyback quickly, in your view
or in HUD's position, what are the consequences of the Senate's
failure to advance the Build Back Better Act on this critical
housing investment?
Ms. Ampry-Samuel. The consequences are a matter of health
and safety, life and death. This hearing today is about tragic
fires where there was a loss of life for children and families
in two States. We need funding, and we share that commitment.
We share that commitment in making sure that our units are
safe. But it is definitely a detrimental impact if we don't
have the funding that we need. And ultimately, when Congress is
able to make substantial investments into affordable housing,
we know that our families will be safe and this conversation
around fire safety and folks dying because of it will be
addressed. We need more funding, and the problem is if it is
not addressed--it passed in the House and did not pass in the
Senate, so we need more support. It is detrimental to life.
Mr. Evans. I yield back. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for
this hearing, and my colleague for his leadership. I really
appreciate it, as well as Chairwoman Maxine Waters. But just
having this discussion, I think is fantastic. I yield back, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Cleaver. Thank you.
Let me also thank Administrator Ampry-Samuel. Thank you
very much. And again, congratulations on President Biden's
appointment to you for this region. And, Ms. Sheriff, thank you
very much for your participation.
I would also like to thank my colleagues, Mr. Green from
Texas, Ms. Dean, and of course the gentleman of great
distinction from Philadelphia, Mr. Dwight Evans.
And I would like to thank Maxine Waters, the Chairwoman of
the Financial Services Committee, for her willingness to allow
us to do this hearing. And I have to say that I have been
around for a while, and Maxine Waters is about as close to a
Tasmanian Devil as you can get when it comes to affordable
housing. She is obsessed with it, which I love, which is why I
am on this committee. And we were certainly given additional
fuel when Mr. Ritchie Torres was appointed to this committee,
and I am thrilled that he is here, and I am also thrilled that
he asked that we come to the Bronx to deal with this issue that
should be painful to every single American.
Frankly, if we do nothing, I think we are guilty of
whatever happens down the road. We need to move, and we need to
move quickly, and that is one of the reasons I think this
legislation that the President has put before us is extremely
important. We have to approve that so that we can begin to deal
with these problems.
We can still do big things in the United States of America.
We can still do those things. We have to put some pettiness
aside and understand that you cannot sting and make honey at
the same time. You have to choose what you want to do. I choose
honey.
The Chair notes that some Members may have additional
questions for these witnesses, which they may wish to submit in
writing. Without objection, the hearing record will remain open
for 5 legislative days for Members to submit written questions
to these witnesses and to place their responses in the record.
Also, without objection, Members will have 5 legislative days
to submit extraneous materials to the Chair for inclusion in
the record.
Thank you very much. This hearing is now ended.
[Whereupon, at 2:27 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
April 20, 2022
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]