    [House Hearing, 117 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

    INVESTING IN WILDFIRE MANAGEMENT, ECOSYSTEM RESTORATION, AND RESILIENT
    COMMUNITIES: EXAMINING IMPLEMENTATION OF THE BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE
                                      LAW

    =======================================================================

                               OVERSIGHT HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

           SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC LANDS

                                     OF THE

                         COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
                         U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION
                                   __________

                             Tuesday, April 5, 2022
                                   __________

                               Serial No. 117-17
                                   __________

           Printed for the use of the Committee on Natural Resources

                      [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                                       or
              Committee address: http://naturalresources.house.gov

                                    ___________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    47-289 PDF                   WASHINGTON : 2022

                         COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES

                          RAUL M. GRIJALVA, AZ, Chair
                    JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, IL, Vice Chair
       GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN, CNMI, Vice Chair, Insular Affairs
                      BRUCE WESTERMAN, AR, Ranking Member

    Grace F. Napolitano, CA              Louie Gohmert, TX
    Jim Costa, CA                        Doug Lamborn, CO
    Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan,      Robert J. Wittman, VA
        CNMI                             Tom McClintock, CA
    Jared Huffman, CA                    Garret Graves, LA
    Alan S. Lowenthal, CA                Jody B. Hice, GA
    Ruben Gallego, AZ                    Aumua Amata Coleman Radewagen, AS
    Joe Neguse, CO                       Daniel Webster, FL
    Mike Levin, CA                       Jenniffer Gonzalez-Colon, PR
    Katie Porter, CA                     Russ Fulcher, ID
    Teresa Leger Fernandez, NM           Pete Stauber, MN
    Melanie A. Stansbury, NM             Thomas P. Tiffany, WI
    Nydia M. Velazquez, NY               Jerry L. Carl, AL
    Diana DeGette, CO                    Matthew M. Rosendale, Sr., MT
    Julia Brownley, CA                   Blake D. Moore, UT
    Debbie Dingell, MI                   Yvette Herrell, NM
    A. Donald McEachin, VA               Lauren Boebert, CO
    Darren Soto, FL                      Jay Obernolte, CA
    Michael F. Q. San Nicolas, GU        Cliff Bentz, OR
    Jesus G. ``Chuy'' Garcia, IL         Vacancy
    Ed Case, HI                          Vacancy
    Betty McCollum, MN
    Steve Cohen, TN
    Paul Tonko, NY
    Rashida Tlaib, MI
    Lori Trahan, MA

                         David Watkins, Staff Director
                           Luis Urbina, Chief Counsel
                   Vivian Moeglein, Republican Staff Director
                       http://naturalresources.house.gov
                                     ------

           SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC LANDS

                             JOE NEGUSE, CO, Chair
                        RUSS FULCHER, ID, Ranking Member

    Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan,      Thomas P. Tiffany, WI
        CNMI                             Louie Gohmert, TX
    Diana DeGette, CO                    Doug Lamborn, CO
    Paul Tonko, NY                       Tom McClintock, CA
    Rashida Tlaib, MI                    Jody B. Hice, GA
    Lori Trahan, MA                      Matthew M. Rosendale, Sr., MT
    Ruben Gallego, AZ                    Blake D. Moore, UT
    Teresa Leger Fernandez, NM           Yvette Herrell, NM
    Debbie Dingell, MI                   Jay Obernolte, CA
    Ed Case, HI                          Bruce Westerman, AR, ex officio
    Michael F. Q. San Nicolas, GU
    Katie Porter, CA
    Raul M. Grijalva, AZ, ex officio

                                     ------
                                    CONTENTS

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

    Hearing held on Tuesday, April 5, 2022...........................     1

    Statement of Members:

        Grijalva, Hon. Raul M., a Representative in Congress from the
          State of Arizona...........................................     8
            Prepared statement of....................................     9
        Herrell, Hon. Yvette, a Representative in Congress from the
          State of New Mexico........................................     5
        Neguse, Hon. Joe, a Representative in Congress from the State
          of Colorado................................................     2
            Prepared statement of....................................     3
        Westerman, Hon. Bruce, a Representative in Congress from the
          State of Arkansas..........................................     6

    Statement of Witnesses:

        Ferebee, Brian, Chief Executive of Intergovernmental
          Relations, U.S. Department of Agriculture, Forest Service,
          Washington, DC.............................................    32
            Prepared statement of....................................    21
            Questions submitted for the record.......................    33
        Hall-Rivera, Jaelith, Deputy Chief, State and Private
          Forestry, U.S. Department of Agriculture, Forest Service,
          Washington, DC.............................................    20
            Prepared statement of....................................    21
            Questions submitted for the record.......................    25
        Rupert, Jeff, Director, Office of Wildland Fire, U.S.
          Department of the Interior, Washington, DC.................    10
            Prepared statement of....................................    11
            Questions submitted for the record.......................    15

    Additional Materials Submitted for the Record:

        Tall Timbers, J. Morgan Varner, Director of Research,
          Statement for the Record...................................    61

        List of documents submitted for the record retained in the
          Committee's official files.................................    62

        Submissions for the Record by Representative Tiffany

            Forest Service Timber Data...............................    46

      OVERSIGHT HEARING ON ``INVESTING IN WILDFIRE MANAGEMENT, ECOSYSTEM
    RESTORATION, AND RESILIENT COMMUNITIES: EXAMINING IMPLEMENTATION OF THE
                        BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE LAW''

                                  ----------

                             Tuesday, April 5, 2022

                         U.S. House of Representatives

           Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests, and Public Lands

                         Committee on Natural Resources

                                 Washington, DC

                                  ----------

        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:11 a.m., in
    room 1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Joe Neguse
    [Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.

        Present: Representatives Neguse, Sablan, Tonko, Tlaib,
    Gallego, Leger Fernandez, Dingell, Porter, Grijalva (ex
    officio); Herrell, Tiffany, Gohmert, McClintock, Rosendale,
    Moore, and Westerman (ex officio).

        Mr. Neguse. The Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests,
    and Public Lands will come to order. The Subcommittee is
    meeting today to hear testimony on investing in wildfire
    management, ecosystem restoration, and resilient communities:
    examining implementation of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.

        Under Committee Rule 4(f), any oral opening statements at
    hearings are limited to the Chair and the Ranking Minority
    Member or their designee. This will allow us to hear from our
    witnesses sooner and help Members keep to their schedules.
    Therefore, I ask unanimous consent that all other Members'
    opening statements be made part of the hearing record if they
    are submitted to the Clerk by 5 p.m. today or the close of the
    hearing, whichever comes first.

        Without objection, the Chair may also declare a recess
    subject to the call of the Chair. Hearing no objection, so
    ordered.

        As described in the notice, statements and documents or
    motions must be submitted to the electronic repository at
    HNRCDocs@mail.house.gov. Members physically present here should
    provide a hard copy for staff to distribute by e-mail. Please
    note that Members are responsible for their own microphones, as
    with our fully in-person meetings. This is a hybrid meaning, of
    course. Members can be muted by staff to avoid inadvertent
    background noise.

        Finally, Members or witnesses experiencing any technical
    problems should inform Committee staff as soon as possible.

        With that, I will now recognize myself for an opening
    statement.

     STATEMENT OF THE HON. JOE NEGUSE, A REPRESENATIVE IN CONGRESS
                       FROM THE STATE OF COLORADO

        Mr. Neguse. First, let me say thank you to each of the
    witnesses for being here today and to my fellow colleagues on
    both sides of the aisle for the Subcommittee on National Parks,
    Forests, and Public Lands oversight hearing on implementation
    of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. We are happy to be back
    here in person in the Committee room to host this hybrid
    hearing on a topic that I certainly know merits a high level of
    interest from Members on both sides of the dais and is of
    particular importance to communities in my state of Colorado.
        The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law is a historic investment
    in our country's infrastructure, which included billions of
    dollars for the Department of the Interior and the U.S. Forest
    Service to support natural infrastructure, to reduce wildfire
    risk, restore healthy ecosystems, and build safe, resilient
    communities.
        In my district in Colorado, Colorado's 2nd Congressional
    District, communities from the Front Range to the Continental
    Divide have been deeply impacted by unprecedented wildfires in
    recent years, including the Marshall Fire in December 2021, the
    Cameron Peak Fire in 2020, and the East Troublesome Fire in
    that year as well.
        The reality that we are living with throughout the Rocky
    Mountain West is that wildfires are no longer simply contained
    to a season. They are year-round. There are no wildfire seasons
    in Colorado or in the Rocky Mountain West. There are wildfire
    years. And these fires are now occurring in larger areas at
    higher intensity, and it is only projected to increase in the
    coming years as a result of climate change.
        In my community in Colorado, back in December on New Year's
    Eve, 1,084 homes were destroyed literally within an 18-hour
    time period in the most destructive wildfire that has ever
    occurred in Colorado. We need more Federal firefighting
    resources. We need to invest in our forests. And, ultimately,
    we need to take wildfire resiliency and mitigation seriously
    for our communities, for our families, and for the many people
    that we represent in the western United States.
        That is why, as Chair of this Subcommittee, we have
    prioritized wildfire oversight and legislation, including
    hearings on Build Back Better, natural disasters, climate
    change, the Civilian Climate Corps, public lands management and
    workforce and, yes, forest management as well. For example, the
    Joint Chiefs Landscape Restoration Partnership Act, which I was
    proud to introduce alongside Senator Bennet, was included and
    funded in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
        As with the National Cohesive Wildland Fire Management
    Strategy, and more recently, the Forest Service' ambitious 10-
    Year Wildfire Plan, the goal is to promote more fire-adapted
    landscapes and reduce the vulnerability of at-risk communities.
        The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law combines investments in
    hazardous fuels, prescribed fire, and fuel breaks, alongside
    programs to reform the wildfire workforce and increase
    firefighter pay, improve community wildfire defenses, and
    support more science-based monitoring and ecosystem
    restoration.
        The law also funded wildfire response and pre-planning
    workshops, burned area recovery, and significantly increases
    funding available through the Reforestation Trust Fund. Beyond
    Federal Lands, the BIL, the Infrastructure Law, also includes
    critical investments to enable an `all-lands' landscape-scale
    approach to wildfire preparedness.
        This multi-layered approach provides land management
    agencies with a generational opportunity to demonstrate a
    paradigm shift away from commercial management and emergency
    suppression and toward fire adaptation and ecosystem services.
        In that regard, some of the primary implementation
    questions for the Natural Resources Committee include:
    evaluating the adequacy of these investments in the context of
    annual appropriations, measuring success beyond board feet and
    acres treated, and assessing if additional investments,
    workforce, or policy changes may be necessary.
        While I recognize that there is genuine bipartisan interest
    in these issues, I would be remiss if I didn't say it's
    unfortunate that my friends on the other side of the aisle
    voted against this legislation that I have described and all of
    the myriad benefits that I think it will have for forest
    management.
        But I hope that they will join us in the efforts that are
    well underway to build on the success that we have achieved as
    a result of that Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, including
    expanding compensation for wildland firefighter pay. I
    understand that we can expect some clarity on the wildland
    firefighter classification issue, which I have touched on in
    prior hearings in May from the Administration.
        And I hope that we can continue to work together on Tim's
    Act, which is my legislation with Republican Representative Liz
    Cheney, that establishes a minimum wage for Federal
    firefighters and provides incentives and benefits needed to
    support and retain an effective Federal wildland firefighter
    workforce.
        Finally, I'd like to thank our witnesses from the
    Administration for joining us in person today. I know there is
    a lot moving with the Fiscal Year 2023 budget, implementation
    of the Omnibus, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, so no
    shortage of pressing issues for all of you to grapple with.
        We very much appreciate you taking the time to visit with
    us today. As you know, these investments are of the utmost
    importance to the members of this Committee on both sides of
    the aisle. We all have a vested interest in transparent,
    effective, and efficient implementation of the law.
        With that, I look forward to your testimony.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Neguse follows:]
    Prepared Statement of the Hon. Joe Neguse, a Representative in Congress
                           from the State of Colorado
        Thank you all for being here today for the Subcommittee on National
    Parks, Forests, and Public Lands oversight hearing on implementation of
    the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
        I'm happy to be back here in the Committee room today to host this
    hybrid hearing on a topic I know merits a high level of interest from
    members on both sides of the aisle, and is of particular importance to
    the communities in my state.
        The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law is a historic investment in our
    country's infrastructure, which included billions for the Department of
    the Interior and U.S. Forest Service to support natural infrastructure,
    reduce wildfire risk, restore healthy ecosystems, and build safe,
    resilient communities.
        In my district in Colorado, communities from the Front Range to the
    Continental Divide have been deeply impacted by unprecedented wildfires
    in recent years, including the Marshall Fire in December 2021.
        The reality we're living with throughout the West is that wildfires
    are not just contained to a season, but burn year-round in larger areas
    at higher intensity, and this is only projected to increase as a result
    of climate change.
        That is why, as Chair of this Subcommittee, I have prioritized
    wildfire oversight and legislation, including hearings on Build Back
    Better, natural disasters and climate change, Civilian Climate Corps,
    public lands workforce, and, yes, even forest management.
        For example, the Joint Chiefs Landscape Restoration Partnership
    Act, which I was proud to introduce alongside Senator Bennet, was
    included and funded in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
        As with the National Cohesive Wildland Fire Management Strategy,
    and more recently, the Forest Service' 10-Year Wildfire Plan, the goal
    is to promote more fire-adapted landscapes and reduce the vulnerability
    of at-risk communities.
        To that end, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law combines investments
    in hazardous fuels, prescribed fire, and fuel breaks alongside programs
    to reform the wildfire workforce and increase firefighter pay, improve
    community wildfire defenses, and support more science-based monitoring
    and ecosystem restoration.
        The infrastructure law also funds wildfire response and pre-
    planning workshops, burned area recovery, and significantly increases
    funding available through the Reforestation Trust Fund.
        Beyond Federal lands, the BIL includes critical investments to
    enable an `all-lands' landscape-scale approach to wildfire
    preparedness.
        This multi-layered approach provides land management agencies with
    a generational opportunity to demonstrate a paradigm shift away from
    commercial management and emergency suppression, and toward fire
    adaptation and ecosystem services.
        In this regard, some of the primary implementation questions for
    the Natural Resources Committee include: Evaluating adequacy of these
    investments in the context of annual appropriations; measuring success
    beyond board feet and acres treated; and assessing if additional
    investments, workforce, or policy changes are needed.
        While I recognize there is genuine bipartisan interest in these
    issues, it's unfortunate that every current Republican Member of this
    Committee voted against the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
        Committee Republicans have consistently opposed bipartisan
    investments and programs to address climate change, conservation,
    wildfire, biodiversity, and workforce needs, including those germane to
    today's hearing.
        Fortunately, there is some good news on the workforce front: I
    would like to thank the Biden administration and the witnesses here for
    their efforts to ensure no Federal wildfire firefighter makes less than
    $15 an hour, while working to address mental health needs and other
    line-of-duty hazards.
        I understand we can expect some clarity on the `wildland
    firefighter' classification by May, and I hope we can continue to work
    together on Tim's Act--my legislation that establishes a minimum wage
    for Federal firefighters, and provides incentives and benefits needed
    to support and retain an effective Federal wildland firefighter
    workforce.
        Lastly, I'd like to thank our witnesses from the Administration for
    joining us in person today. I know there is a lot moving with the FY23
    budget, implementation of FY22 Omnibus, the Bipartisan Infrastructure
    Law and we appreciate your time today.
        As you know these investments are of the utmost importance to the
    members of this Committee and we all have a vested interest in
    transparent, effective, and efficient implementation of the law.
        I look forward to your testimony.

                                     ______

        Mr. Neguse. I will yield back the remainder of my time and
    recognize Ranking Member Herrell for 5 minutes.

       STATEMENT OF THE HON. YVETTE HERRELL, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                 CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO

        Ms. Herrell. Thank you, Mr. Speaker--sorry, I just gave you
    a raise.
        Mr. Neguse. No, thank you. I appreciate the promotion.
        Ms. Herrell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Today, we meet to
    discuss the implementation of the wildfire ecosystem
    restoration provisions contained in the Bipartisan
    Infrastructure Law. This marks the very first time that our
    Committee will have a chance to meaningfully weigh in on this
    effort, as the House was completely shut out of the regular
    order process in crafting the so-called bipartisan law.
        So, while we welcome the opportunity to provide oversight,
    this hearing is, at best, a half a year late. And, frankly, the
    apparent lack of anger from my friends on the other side of the
    aisle of this dais who are equally barred from offering
    meaningful input on an infrastructure package is baffling.
        The items we are discussing today are of profound
    importance for our nation as a whole and especially our Western
    states that have experienced historical devastation from our
    seemingly endless catastrophic wildfire crisis. My home state
    of New Mexico has had over 2,700 fires burn over half a million
    acres over the last 5 years.
        And in the last 2 years, we had record-breaking wildfire
    seasons that have burned a collective 17 million acres
    nationwide. Our Western communities have grown painfully
    accustomed to deadly and destructive blazes wreaking havoc year
    after year.
        The wildfire and ecosystem restoration provisions that we
    are going to discuss today do little more than light money on
    fire by throwing millions of dollars at the wildfire crisis
    without pairing it with meaningful regulatory reform to ensure
    our lands are actually managed properly. Decades of consistent
    mismanagement have shown that it is not a lack of funding that
    has prevented us from properly tackling our wildfire crisis but
    rather onerous regulations and endless litigation from activist
    environmentalist groups.
        For instance, while the Forest Service's overall budget has
    more than doubled since 2014, the amount of hazardous fuel
    treatments have remained frustratingly stagnant, only
    addressing roughly 2 percent of their needs annually. I am
    concerned that the recently announced 10-year strategy to
    combat the wildfire crisis will fall short because not only are
    the tools not in place to implement this strategy, but the
    Forest Service is also relying on only 5 years of funding to
    execute a 10-year plan. This is especially concerning
    considering yesterday's release of the Department of the
    Interior's wildfire strategy, which is only 5 years. If given
    the chance, Committee Republicans would have offered real
    improvements to the infrastructure package to truly address the
    foundational obstacles that have continuously bogged down
    responsible management of our fire-prone forests. This includes
    the Resilient Federal Forest Act which I am proudly co-
    sponsoring.
        I also introduced the Wildfire Prevention and Drought
    Mitigation Act, which was included in that package. That would
    protect drought-affected forest communities from catastrophic
    wildfire by streamlining the environmental review process for
    active forest management projects aimed at protecting
    watersheds, wildlife habitat, snowpack, and improving water
    quality. The Resilient Federal Forest Act also included
    streamlining based on firesheds, which the new 10-year strategy
    is based on. These substantive pieces of legislation would
    unquestionably lead to better management of our forests and
    better recovery from the devastation left in the wake of past
    wildfires.
        I do look forward to hearing from the Administration today,
    and I want to thank the witnesses for being here. And while the
    so-called Bipartisan Infrastructure Law undeniably falls short
    on truly unleashing the type of wildfire treatments and
    restoration work necessary to respond to this historic crisis,
    it is vital that we do everything we can to ensure that the
    increased funding is being used as wisely as possible.
        Ultimately, we must rise to the unprecedented threats
    facing our Western lands, and any notion that the provisions
    contained in the Infrastructure Law fully address the enormity
    of these dangers must be rejected. As we speak, over 100
    million acres of our Federal lands remain at high risk for
    wildfire and over a billion acres are at risk nationwide.
        Even if the Forest Service can fully achieve the increased
    targets they have set, which is a big ``if,'' it would still
    not fully tackle the backlog of treatments needed on our
    Federal lands. We simply must do better. And with that, I yield
    back the balance of my time.

        Mr. Neguse. The gentlewoman yields back.
        The Chair now recognizes the Ranking Member of the Full
    Committee, Mr. Westerman, for 5 minutes. I suspect we are going
    to hear about Trillion Trees, but I am not sure. I am going to
    wait and see.

      STATEMENT OF THE HON. BRUCE WESTERMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                  CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS

        Mr. Westerman. No Trillion Trees today. Thank you, Mr.
    Chairman. We are going to talk about what we need to do with
    the trees that we have before we talk about planting more of
    them. And we are doing a miserable job with the trees that we
    have.
        But Mr. Chairman, I wanted to first express my gratitude
    that today's hearing is a hybrid format. It gives us a chance
    to meet in person to discuss the very important wildfire
    crisis. And as you know, Committee Republicans have
    consistently opposed the Majority's decision to conduct
    Committee business virtually. And we welcome this return to the
    hearing room. Good to see you in person and other Members
    around the dais.
        Mr. Chairman, you have rightly said that we need to take
    wildfire mitigation and resiliency seriously. And I have been
    saying that since I first came to Congress. Unfortunately, I
    don't think we have taken it seriously yet. Hopefully, we can
    keep working on that. And someday we will take it seriously,
    and we will see the results of it. I do want to echo
    Representative Herrell's concerns that the so-called Bipartisan
    Infrastructure Law reflects yet another example of Congress
    just throwing money at a problem, trying to put a Band-Aid on
    the symptoms instead of actually getting to the root problem of
    the problem and in blocking the scientifically supported forest
    management that is so desperately needed. And with the wildfire
    and ecosystem restoration projects in this infrastructure
    package, it is sadly just the latest installment of increased
    funds to a system that is clearly broken.
        Just 4 years ago, Congress delivered the Fire Funding Fix,
    which gave the Forest Service and DOI $2.25 billion of new
    budget authority. We were promised that this was the primary
    obstacle to increasing the pace and scale of forest management.
    Yet, hazardous fuels treatments have remained stagnant. Like
    Representative Herrell mentioned, the Forest Service's budget
    has more than doubled, doubled, in 10 years, and yet that still
    is not enough.
        Maybe we should look at changing the name of the Forest
    Service to the Fire Service. Even the forest testimony today
    calls the $5.5 billion provided by the BIF a mere down payment
    on the actual funding that is needed. If we were serious about
    wildfire mitigation and resiliency and if the BIF was an
    attempt to fix that, you would think we would have had at least
    one hearing in the House about the so-called Bipartisan
    Infrastructure Bill. The largest infrastructure spending in the
    history of the world--and not only did it not go through this
    Committee, it didn't go through the Transportation and
    Infrastructure Committee. And the truth is that even as the
    budgets have continued to climb for our land management
    agencies, we are not seeing the type of paradigm shift that we
    all know needs to happen if we are ever going to truly tackle
    this historic crisis.
        The primary culprits bogging down responsible management
    and recovery of our overgrown fire-prone forests have been and
    remain onerous regulatory burdens and the continued
    weaponization of our courts by activist environmental groups
    that litigate even the smallest management projects. I have
    said many times before, and I will keep saying it over and
    over, that the forest and nature could care less what we say in
    this room. They could care less how much money the Federal
    Government sends to an agency. They just keep growing, and the
    fires keep burning.
        And as long as we are talking and throwing money at it and
    not addressing the root problem, that is what they are going to
    do. We are to the point that we have been for quite some time
    where we need a lot less talk or a little less talk and a lot
    more action. That is the only thing that is going to fix this
    wildfire crisis. Representative Herrell is correct in talking
    about the bills that we have introduced on the Republican side,
    the Resilient Federal Forest Act and other bills that look at
    the real problems that our forest land managers face.
        With all this money, I am waiting to see some actions. But
    it is not going to happen with the environmentalists that come
    in and stop the projects. Until they quit suing, until we quit
    giving them the ability to hold up the management, there is no
    amount of money and no number of staff that are going to be
    able to fix the problem with our forests.
        If people want to truly understand how bad our catastrophic
    wildfire crisis has gotten, look no further than our giant
    sequoias. Over a 15-month period from 2020 to 2021, we lost
    nearly one-fifth of the world's giant sequoias. Let me say that
    again. These iconic trees that are thousands of years old only
    grow in about 37,000 acres in California, and we lost 20
    percent of them in a short period of time.
        And these trees are the most fire-resilient species,
    probably, on the planet. Their bark is 2 feet thick at the
    base. They used to get 31 fires per century. But we started
    putting the fires out, and they only had three fires in the
    20th century. And now the fires get in the crowns and wipe them
    out. That is unacceptable.
        And if we don't act, we are going to lose all of our giant
    sequoias. They will grow back. We will have little spindly
    giant sequoia seedlings growing out there. But these iconic
    trees, we have to do something to fix that. I want to thank the
    witnesses for being here today. I appreciate your patience in
    letting me go over a little bit, and I yield back.

        Mr. Neguse. The Ranking Member yields back.
        The Chair now recognizes the distinguished Chairman of the
    Full Committee, Mr. Grijalva, for 5 minutes.

      STATEMENT OF THE HON. RAUL M. GRIJALVA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                   CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

        Mr. Grijalva. Thank you very much, Chairman Neguse and
    Ranking Member, for having me on the Subcommittee today. And I
    appreciate the Biden administration witnesses joining us as we
    work to implement the priorities of the Bipartisan
    Infrastructure Law that is an important and historic investment
    not only in the nation's infrastructure but in the natural
    world and the systems most impacted by climate change.
        And that is why I decided to vote for it. And like any
    Member that voted for it, I didn't like everything in it. I
    wasn't crazy about the process. And I know some of my
    colleagues had legitimate concerns about passing it while so
    much was still up in the air and off the table. But at the end
    of the day, I voted to support it. And I did so because it was
    a tremendous benefit to my constituents.
        And, of course, with that, an acknowledgment that more has
    to be done. We know that. But that is why this Committee has
    spent considerable time and effort on a legislative and
    oversight agenda that maybe, just maybe, will be enough to
    begin to address our climate, jobs, justice and public lands
    needs. That is why I also voted for the Bipartisan
    Infrastructure Law when I had a chance. Unfortunately, not a
    single Republican on this Committee can say the same except, of
    course, for the late Dean of the House from Alaska,
    Representative Don Young, who, in all his wisdom, recognized
    that it was an important historic vote and that it would
    benefit directly his people in Alaska.
        I expect we will hear the usual complaints that the bedrock
    environmental laws or endangered species protections are the
    real problem or outside environmental extremists who are
    clogging up the courts day after day and not allowing anything
    to be done. But we also know what is really deeply needed:
    Federal leadership in support of the long-term investments,
    working with states and other partners to make those
    investments as fruitful as possible, and to meaningfully
    address climate change, wildfire, and biodiversity.
        That is what the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law does, and
    that is what the Protecting America's Wilderness Act does, and
    that is what we will continue to do by any means that are
    available to us to promote that.
        Without continued action on climate change, communities
    that rely on forests and public lands for their clean water,
    recreation, and wildlife habitat will continue to be at risk
    from climate impacts like drought in my state and wildfires in
    my state.
        The record of the Natural Resources Committee, I think,
    speaks for itself. The hearing today is about making sure the
    Department of the Interior or the U.S. Forest Service are
    transparent, accountable, and guided by science in implementing
    what needs to be the historic down payment in our efforts to
    address climate change, wildfire, restoration, reforestation
    and the very critical workforce needs.
        So, again, Mr. Chair, Ranking Member, thank you and the
    witnesses, and I look forward to the testimony. I yield back.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Grijalva follows:]
     Prepared Statement of the Hon. Raul M. Grijalva, Chair, Committee on
                               Natural Resources
        Thank you Chair Neguse and Ranking Member for having me in the
    Subcommittee today. I also appreciate the Biden administration
    witnesses joining us as you work to implement priorities for the
    Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
        Listen, I don't care what you call it, Infrastructure Investment
    and Jobs Act, BIL, BIF, whatever--What matters is that Congress came
    together to pass a historic investment in the future of our nation's
    infrastructure, including the natural world and systems most impacted
    by climate change.
        That is why I decided to vote for it. I didn't like everything in
    it. I didn't love the process. And I know some of my progressive
    colleagues had legitimate concerns about passing it while so much else
    was up in the air. But at the end of the day, I voted in support
    because I decided that it what would benefit my constituents.
        Of course, there is an acknowledgement that more needs to be done.
    That is why this Committee has spent considerable time and effort on a
    legislative and oversight agenda that maybe, just maybe, will be enough
    to begin to address our climate, jobs, justice and public lands needs.
        That is also why I voted for the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law when
    I had the chance. Unfortunately, not a single Republican on this
    Committee can say the same. Except, of course, for the late Dean from
    Alaska, Rep. Don Young, who in all his wisdom recognized an important
    vote that would benefit the State of Alaska.
        I expect we'll hear the usual complaints that bedrock environmental
    laws or endangered species protections are the real problem. But we all
    know that what is deeply needed: Federal leadership in support of long-
    term investments, working with states and other partners, to
    meaningfully address climate change, wildfire, and biodiversity.
        That's what the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law does, that's what
    Protecting America's Wilderness Act does, and that's what we'll
    continue to do through any means available to us.
        Without continued action on climate change, communities that rely
    on forests and public lands for clean water, recreation, and wildlife
    habitat will continue to be at risk from climate impacts like drought
    and wildfires.
        The record of Natural Resources Committee Democrats speaks for
    itself.
        This hearing today is about making sure the Department of the
    Interior and the U.S. Forest Service are transparent, accountable, and
    guided by science in implementing what needs to be a down payment in
    our efforts to address climate change, wildfire, restoration,
    reforestation, and workforce needs.
        I'd like to again thank the Chair, Ranking Member, and witnesses, I
    look forward to your testimony.

                                     ______

        Mr. Neguse. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman yields
    back. Now I'd like to turn to our witness panel. Let me remind
    the witnesses that under Committee Rules, they must limit their
    oral statements to 5 minutes but that their entire statement
    will appear in the hearing record.
        When you begin, the timer will begin. The lights in front
    of you will turn yellow when there is 1 minute left and then
    red when the time has expired. For any Members and witnesses
    joining remotely, it will turn orange when you have 1 minute
    remaining. And I recommend that you pin the timer so it remains
    visible.
        After your testimony is complete, please remember to mute
    yourself on the microphone in front of you, and we will also
    allow the entire panel to testify before we proceed with
    questions. The Chair will now recognize our first witness, Mr.
    Jeff Rupert, Director of the Office of Wildland Fire at the
    U.S. Department of the Interior. Mr. Rupert, you are recognized
    for 5 minutes.

     STATEMENT OF JEFF RUPERT, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF WILDLAND FIRE,
            U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, WASHINGTON, DC

        Mr. Rupert. Chairman Neguse, Ranking Member Westerman, and
    members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to
    provide testimony on the Department of the Interior's
    investments in wildfire management, ecosystem restoration, and
    resilient communities. The investments made in the Bipartisan
    Infrastructure Law provide an unprecedented opportunity to
    reduce the impacts of wildfire on ecosystems and communities as
    well as modernizing our wildland fire workforce.
        We appreciate the Subcommittee's commitment to these
    outcomes and look forward to our continued work together.
    Climate change continues to drive the devastating intersection
    of extreme heat, drought, and wildland fire danger across the
    United States, creating wildfires that move with the speed and
    intensity previously unseen.
        Climate change has created a continuous fire year for our
    nation and American communities continue to bear the brunt of
    the resulting cycle of intensifying droughts, wildfires, and
    poor air quality. Funding provided by the Bipartisan
    Infrastructure Law supports the Department's efforts to
    mitigate the impacts of these changes on wildland fire and
    better safeguard people, communities, and resources.
        Current drought conditions and the drought outlook for much
    of the United States is very concerning. The NOAA Climate
    Prediction Center's seasonal drought outlook shows continued
    drought across nearly all of the West. And even in areas that
    have seen above normal rainfall this past winter, we may expect
    them to experience increased spring vegetation growth and then
    fast-moving wildfires during a dry, hot summer.
        The United States has over 1 billion burnable acres that
    are at some level of risk from wildfire. More than 250 million
    of those acres are at high or very high wildfire hazard
    potential. And 7.1 million of those high/very high hazard acres
    are administered by Interior. Funding provided in the
    Bipartisan Infrastructure Law allows the Department to
    dramatically increase our efforts to reduce wildfire risk,
    improve community resiliency, and support post-fire recovery in
    these areas.
        The additional investment in ecosystem restoration
    amplifies this support with efforts to restore ecological
    health, providing millions for restoration projects and
    supporting national revegetation efforts, including
    implementation of the National Seed Strategy. Today, I am happy
    to announce that yesterday, Interior released its 5-year
    monitoring, maintenance, and treatment plan, as required by the
    Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. DOI's plan provides a roadmap
    for increasing the pace and scale of fuels management and
    rehabilitation of lands damaged by wildfires with a focus on
    fire-prone Interior and Tribal Nation lands. It directly aligns
    with the USDA Forest Service 10-Year Wildfire Crisis Strategy
    and identifies needed investments in science, technology, and
    tools to inform and empower stakeholders to work
    collaboratively.
        Together, both blueprints facilitate a coordinated multi-
    jurisdictional approach to reducing wildfire risk over broad
    landscapes. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law funding also
    enables the Department to accelerate plans initiated in Fiscal
    Year 2021 to transform the firefighting workforce. Recent
    challenging fire seasons have focused attention on the
    increasing threat of wildfire to people, communities, and the
    natural environment.
        Yesterday's fire season is today's fire year. Shifting the
    fire workforce toward a more permanent, full-time appointment
    supports career growth, increases retention, and more
    experienced and knowledgeable firefighters. In turn, this will
    have a substantial long-lasting effect in support of a more
    robust, sound management, decision making, and safety for
    firefighters and the public.
        The Department maintains strong relationships with states,
    Tribal Nations, other Federal agencies, and local governments
    and stakeholders. We remain committed to work in partnership to
    address wildland fire management issues and manage wildfire
    risk.
        Our work with elected officials, tribes, and organizations,
    such as the Western Governors' Association and National
    Association of Counties, are key to implementing sound
    principles and wildlife fire management before, during, and
    after wildfires. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law also
    authorizes establishment of the Wildland Fire Mitigation
    Management Commission announced in December 2021.
        It will play a key role in recommending Federal policies
    and strategies to more effectively prevent, mitigate, suppress,
    and manage wildfires, including the rehabilitation of burned
    areas. The Commission is in the process of reviewing
    applications for membership from individuals with a broad
    spectrum of knowledge and interest to address wildfire impacts
    to our nation.
        Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to
    discuss these important investments and partnerships, ecosystem
    restoration, and the well-being of our wildland firefighters.
    This concludes my statement. I am happy to answer any
    questions.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Rupert follows:]
      Prepared Statement of Jeffery Rupert, Director, Office of Wildland
                     Fire, U.S. Department of the Interior
        Chairman Neguse, Ranking Member Fulcher, and Members of the
    Committee, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony on the
    Department of the Interior's (DOI) implementation of the investments in
    the Wildland Fire Management Program contained in Public Law 117-58,
    the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, also referred to as the
    Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL).
        President Biden signed the BIL on November 15, 2021, making a once-
    in-a-generation investment in the Nation's infrastructure and economic
    competitiveness. This landmark investment will help rebuild America's
    critical infrastructure, tackle the climate crisis, advance
    environmental justice, and drive the creation of good-paying jobs. By
    addressing long overdue improvements and strengthening our resilience
    to the changing climate, this investment in our communities across the
    country will grow the economy sustainably and equitably so everyone
    gets ahead for decades to come.
        The Biden-Harris Administration's strong commitment to supporting
    the wildland firefighting workforce, coupled with the provisions in the
    BIL, represent an historic investment in Federal wildland fire
    management efforts, and DOI's Wildland Fire Management Program. The BIL
    provides significant investments in wildfire mitigation work and post-
    fire rehabilitation efforts that will be integral to the restoration of
    ecosystems and important landscape services like reliable and clean
    water supplies, clean air, biodiversity and productivity, healthy
    native species habitat, and recreation opportunities.
        We appreciate the Committee's interest in the Department's plans
    and priorities for implementing the BIL.
    Drought
        Current drought conditions and drought outlooks for much of the
    United States looks very concerning for communities and virtually every
    resource dependent on water or precipitation. The U.S. Drought Monitor
    shows some slight improvement in parts of the Eastern U.S., but
    moderate degradation across many areas of the West. The NOAA Climate
    Prediction Center U.S. Seasonal Drought Outlook (March 17, 2022) shows
    continuation of drought across nearly all the West, except for the
    coastal Pacific Northwest and a part of the Northern Rocky Mountains.
        Seasonal outlooks from the Center show that warmer than normal
    temperatures are also likely for a good part of the West.
        Wildland vegetation has not yet recovered from a long-term drought
    across much of the West, where we expect to see increased drought
    stress and mortality in shrubs and trees. One concern is that parts of
    the West that had seen above normal rainfall for part of the past
    winter, might see germination and growth of grasses that stop growing
    into late spring and summer, and become fuel to spread fast moving
    wildfires.
    Climate Change

        Drought conditions and other climate influences on wildfire that we
    have seen in recent years are consistent with scientific descriptions
    of climate change, including from the U.S. Global Change Research
    Program and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (UN). For
    example, we have seen more intense precipitation for shorter periods of
    the winter, longer and warmer growing seasons accompanied by drought,
    and earlier snowmelt in higher elevations. We are beginning to see
    changes in vegetation itself, driven by drought and insect infestations
    and in some instances, shorter periods of time between high severity
    wildfires. These factors have contributed to increasingly devastating,
    intense, and historic fire seasons in recent years.
        In the near term, wildfires near communities, watersheds, critical
    resources, and infrastructure are of greatest concern with climate-
    induced wildfire changes, including elevated risk to human health and
    the environment from unmanaged smoke. However, over the longer term,
    wildfires that change vegetation types, and wildfires burning in peat
    lands and tundra, may have longer lasting effects that ultimately
    contribute to further warming, compounded wildfire risk and greater
    carbon emissions.
        Climate change is creating longer fire seasons and American
    communities continue to bear the brunt of the resulting cycle of
    intensifying droughts, wildfires, poor air quality, and flooding.
    Wildfires can undercut the many benefits and services we receive from
    lands managed by DOI, including those held in trust for Tribal nations,
    such as foraging, hunting and fishing, clean water, clean air,
    wildlife, recreational opportunities, and cultural resources.
    Additionally, wildfires threaten drinking water and cause billions of
    dollars in damages to homes and infrastructure.
        Managing wildfire risk is key to the protection and stewardship of
    these federal lands and honors our trust responsibilities and special
    commitments to American Indians, Alaska Natives, and affiliated Island
    Communities. Addressing this challenge will require us to focus the
    significant investment of resources, to scalable risk reduction
    strategies informed by the best available science around changing
    climate conditions and shifting demographics. As we all know, wildfire
    knows no boundaries and solutions will require collaboration and
    cooperation. The National Cohesive Wildland Fire Management Strategy's
    goals of creating resilient landscapes, promoting fire-adapted
    communities, and ensuring a safe and effective wildfire response,
    culminates in the vision of a Nation able to live with wildland fire.
        The United States has over one billion acres at some level of risk
    from wildfire. More than 250 million of those acres are at high or
    very-high hazard potential, and 7.1 million acres of lands administered
    by DOI are identified as having a very-high or high likelihood of
    exposure to wildfires. To address this, the Department is putting
    people first by working with U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and
    the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) to recognize the efforts of
    our Federal wildland firefighters who respond to ignitions, implement
    fuels treatments to reduce the risk from wildfires before they start,
    and administer post-fire rehabilitation efforts to reduce further
    damage from severe wildfire events and set these landscapes back on the
    path to recovery.

        As part of this effort, with support from the BIL, the Department
    in collaboration with the USDA Forest Service, Tribal Nations, and
    other Federal and non-Federal partners, will increase fuels treatment
    accomplishments that reduce risk to adjacent communities and
    watersheds, and that align with the Department's Fuels Management
    program objectives:

         Integration with Resource and Land Management activities.

         Stewardship-Based projects with shared stewardship values
                and joint, mutually agreed upon priorities coordinated with
                partners and stakeholders.

         Geographic Landscape-Based projects that contribute to a
                broad-scale strategy to achieve mutually agreed upon
                management goals and objectives that are coordinated
                locally.

         Outcome Based projects that protect, maintain, and improve
                resiliency to wildfire; mitigate significant wildfire risk
                to Department and Tribal values; protect, maintain, or
                improve resiliency to wildfire; and meet bureaus' statutory
                obligations for wildland fire management responsibilities.

        Over the past decade, the Department has invested more than $2
    billion in pre- and post-hazardous fuels management treatments to
    protect communities and ecosystems. Maintaining this investment in
    areas where the Department has successfully reduced wildfire risk is an
    important component of the Department's long-term success. As the
    Department completes treatments in new areas we will continue to
    protect and maintain these investments in pre-wildfire risk reduction,
    post-fire hazard mitigation, and ecosystem restoration.
    Ecosystem Restoration & BIL Overview

        Under the BIL, the Department will dramatically expand its efforts
    to reduce wildfire risk, improve community resiliency to wildfire,
    prepare for and respond to harmful wildfires, and support post-fire
    recovery, including in communities that have traditionally been
    overlooked.

        The BIL provides more than $5 billion to both DOI and the USDA
    Forest Service Wildland Fire Management programs over the next five
    years for coordinated efforts for managing wildfire risk. Of that
    amount, nearly $1.5 billion is provided to DOI, including:

         $255 million to support science, technology, training, and
                workforce reforms including increased pay and mental health
                and safety programs for firefighters.

         $325 million to support recovery after a fire. These
                actions will help mitigate the damaging effects of
                wildfires and set landscapes on a path toward natural
                recovery and climate resilience.

         $878 million to manage fuels and mitigate wildfire risk
                before a wildfire occurs. This work will protect vulnerable
                communities from wildfire while preparing our natural
                landscapes for a changing climate.

        The BIL also provides the Department $905 million for ecosystem
    restoration. These resources will be targeted to projects nationally to
    build climate resilience, restore and connect core habitats as well as
    build partnerships and leverage strategic conservation plans. The
    ecosystem restoration funds include several areas where we are
    coordinating internally and with the Department of Agriculture across
    Wildland Fire Management and Ecosystem Restoration programs and see
    opportunities to amplify our efforts such as $70 million to Interior to
    support a national revegetation effort including implementation of the
    National Seed Strategy.
        The BIL also provides $50 million to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
    Service for sagebrush ecosystem conservation. Priority investments for
    those resources include complimentary efforts of protecting sagebrush
    habitat against the spread of the invasive annual grasses and the
    destructive wildfires they fuel as well as restoring mesic (wet)
    habitats to combat the effects of extreme drought.
        Overall, this funding will directly create private sector, state,
    Tribal, and local jobs in forestry, rangelands, land and water
    management and related industries. This includes opportunities to
    supply materials and carry out restoration work, conduct science, as
    well as generate economic ripple effects as those new hires spend their
    money in the local economy. Restored, fire-resilient ecosystems will
    also create jobs in the tourism, outdoor recreation, and commercial
    fishing sectors, as well as the many other sectors that depend on
    plants, animals, and healthy landscapes.
    Workforce Reform

        In coordination with the Department of Agriculture and the Office
    of Personnel Management, the Department is developing a new wildland
    firefighter classification series and pay and compensation reforms. The
    goals of this reform include:

         Advancing the President's commitment to ensuring that
                wildland firefighters receive a livable wage and pay that
                is commensurate with the arduous work that they perform.
                DOI in coordination with the Forest Service is taking steps
                again this year to pay firefighters no less than $15/hour.
                Additionally, both agencies are working with the Office of
                Personnel Management to develop a wildland firefighter
                occupational series and increase base pay, as directed by
                BIL. The agencies are also exploring a long-term solution
                to increase future compensation to better support the
                contemporary wildland firefighter workforce. Continuing to
                convert temporary wildland firefighters and support
                positions to permanent, full-time positions available year-
                round for fire response and risk mitigation activities. The
                Department and the U.S. Forest Service began conversions in
                FY 2021 and will continue converting wildland firefighters
                with the support provided in BIL.

         The Department's Wildland Fire Management Program is
                coordinating with the U.S. Forest Service to establish
                programs and capacity to recognize and address mental
                health needs of firefighters and ensure access to
                appropriate resources. The Department is immediately
                focused on further defining firefighter mental health needs
                and identifying evidence based primary prevention and early
                intervention strategies. Next, adequate Critical Incident
                Stress Management response capacity will be established in
                every bureau. Additional responder-tailored mental health
                support services that will be prioritized and made
                available through interagency national contract or
                contracts.

    Partnerships

        The Department has established and maintains strong relationships
    with states, Tribal Nations, local governments, other Federal agencies,
    and stakeholders. Together, we continue to work in partnership to
    address wildland fire management issues and manage wildfire risk. Our
    work with elected officials, tribes, and non-governmental organizations
    (NGOs) such as the Western Governors Association and the National
    Association of Counties are key to implementing sound principles of
    wildland fire management and prioritizing post-fire restoration needs
    across landscapes.
        The Wildland Fire Leadership Council (WFLC) remains a vital partner
    and a key player in the implementation of BIL. Through WFLC, the
    Department is continuing work with the Environmental Protection Agency,
    the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the U.S. Forest
    Service to assess the impacts of smoke on air quality and public health
    from wildfires and prescribed fires to inform future land management
    and wildland fire management strategies. BIL funding provides an
    opportunity to expand this innovation and implement additional smoke
    exposure mitigation activities. The Department continues to partner
    with WFLC to better coordinate management activities across boundaries
    and jurisdictions to implement the Cohesive Strategy and support its
    member agencies and organizations to better address the challenges and
    needs of underserved communities.
        Approximately 6.5 million acres of land managed by the Department
    are adjacent or near Tribal land. The proximity and interconnectedness
    necessitate close communication and collaboration on wildland fire
    management. We have solidified our relationship with tribes by
    establishing a Memorandum of Understanding with the Intertribal Timber
    Council (ITC). The ITC is a non-profit consortium of 54 member Tribes.
    All are dedicated to improving the oversight and management of
    resources of interest to Native American communities. Under the
    memorandum, the Department and ITC commit to work collaboratively on
    reducing wildland fire risk and mitigating post-wildfire impacts.
    Wildland Fire Mitigation and Management Commission

        In December 2021, USDA, DOI, and the Department of Homeland
    Security through the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
    announced the establishment of a Wildland Fire Mitigation and
    Management Commission. Authorized under the BIL, the Commission will
    play a key role in recommending federal policies and strategies to more
    effectively prevent, mitigate, suppress, and manage wildland fires,
    including the rehabilitation of affected lands.
        The commission is reviewing applications for membership from
    volunteers from diverse backgrounds, with a specific focus on members
    who represent non-federal interests as required by the BIL. Membership
    will include state, local, Tribal, territory, and non-government
    partners with experience in preventing, mitigating, and managing
    wildland fires and the wildland-urban interface.
    Conclusion

        Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss
    these important investments in partnerships, ecosystem restoration, and
    the mental health and well-being of our wildland fire professionals.
    These investments are integral in supporting the Department's efforts
    to meaningfully address wildfire risk and respond to the complexities
    of longer and more intense wildfire seasons.

        This concludes my written statement. I am happy to answer any
    questions.

                                     ______

    Questions Submitted for the Record to Jeff Rupert, Director, Office of
                   Wildland Fire, Department of the Interior
                  Questions Submitted by Representative Porter
        Question 1. How much money did DOI spend on reimbursement to state
    and local authorities for firefighting resources through
    intergovernmental agreements or other mechanisms during FY22? What does
    DOI project to spend in FY23? Please provide information disaggregated
    by State and Region.

        Answer. The Department of the Interior (Department) spent $90.5
    million on reimbursements to state and local authorities for
    firefighting resources in fiscal year (FY) 2021 and $13.5 million
    through the first two quarters of FY 2022. These amounts include direct
    reimbursements to state and local governments from the Department's
    Wildland Fire Management program. Intergovernmental agreements with
    other Federal agencies, Tribal Nations, state and local governments,
    and private partners improve the interoperability and efficiency of
    wildfire response by facilitating the coordination and exchange of
    resources.
        Approximately 7.1 million acres of land administered by the
    Department and Tribal Nations are identified as having a very high or
    high likelihood of exposure to wildfires. (See, www.fs.usda.gov/nnrs/
    projects/firesheds-and-fireshed-registry). Additionally, climate change
    is contributing to more frequent and severe wildfire activity. FY 2023
    reimbursement spending will be heavily influenced by fire activity over
    the next several months and is thus inherently unpredictable.
        Please refer to Attachment 1 for total reimbursements to state and
    local authorities for FY 2021 and for the first two quarters for FY
    2022 disaggregated by state and region (Geographic Area). The National
    Multi-Agency Coordinating Group (NMAC), located at the National
    Interagency Fire Center in Boise, Idaho, has divided the United States
    and Alaska into ten Geographic Areas for the purpose of incident
    management and mobilization of resources (people, aircraft, and ground
    equipment). These Geographic Areas facilitate efficient fire management
    activities to ensure efficient operational wildfire response and cost-
    effective sharing of resources.

        Question 2. How much money did DOI spend contracting for
    firefighting resources during FY22? How much does DOI project to spend
    in FY23? Please provide information disaggregated by State and Region.

        Answer. The Department spent a total of $166 million on contracting
    for firefighting resources in FY 2021 and $102.6 million through the
    first two quarters of FY 2022. These amounts include direct contracting
    costs from the Department's Wildland Fire Management program. As
    discussed above, given the very high or high likelihood of Department
    and Tribal Nation lands exposure to wildfire and the impacts from
    climate change, the Department generally anticipates that the total
    contracting costs for firefighter resources for FY 2022 and for FY 2023
    will be in general alignment with total contracting costs for
    firefighting resources that were incurred in FY 2021.
        Please refer to Attachment 2 for the total contracting costs for
    firefighting resources for FY 2021 and for the first two quarters for
    FY 2022 disaggregated by state and region (Geographic Area). The
    National Geographic Area Coordinating Group, located at the National
    Interagency Fire Center in Boise, Idaho, has divided the United States
    and Alaska into ten Geographic Areas for the purpose of incident
    management and mobilization of resources (people, aircraft, and ground
    equipment). These Geographic Areas facilitate efficient fire management
    activities to ensure efficient operational wildfire response and cost-
    effective sharing of resources among public agencies and Tribes.

        Question 3. DOI's Wildland Fire Management Initial Spend Plan
    states that ``Beginning October 1, 2021 (no deadline for completion set
    in the law): DOI and USDA Forest Service will:

         Seek to convert not fewer than 1,000 seasonal wildland
                firefighting positions to permanent year-round positions
                that are full time and reduce hazardous fuels on Federal
                land not fewer than 900 hours per year (each position);

         Increase the salary of wildland firefighters by an amount
                equal to the lesser of $20,000 or 50 percent of base salary
                if the DOI and USDA Secretaries and the OPM Director
                determine that a position is in a geographic area where it
                is difficult to recruit or retain Federal wildland
                firefighters.''

        (3a). How many seasonal employees have DOI and USDA Forest Service,
    respectively, converted to permanent year-round positions since the
    enactment of IIJA?

        Answer. To date, the Department had completed approximately 90
    percent of the conversions with the funding that was appropriated in FY
    2021 to begin its wildland firefighter workforce transformation. This
    equates to a total of 498 of 568 total targeted positions for
    conversion. The majority of the salaries and expenses funding
    authorized in Section 40803(c)(2) of IIJA is being used to implement
    the supplemental pay increases in FY's 2022 and 2023. The FY 2023
    President's Budget requests additional funding to bolster firefighter
    pay, convert more firefighters to permanent positions, and increase the
    number of wildland fire management personnel.

        (3b). How are DOI and USDA determining geographic areas for the
    purposes of increasing the salaries of Wildland Firefighters? What are
    the average salary increase for wildland firefighters since the
    enactment of the IIJA, by GS level and geographic area?

        Answer. The Department and the USDA Forest Service are committed to
    providing a fair and livable wage to federal employees, and have
    ensured that no firefighter makes less than $15 an hour, consistent
    with President Biden's direction last year. DOI has worked closely with
    the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) to coordinate the temporary
    supplemental pay increase included in the IIJA to ensure implementation
    of the law as intended and in alignment with Federal personnel
    standards and guidelines. This includes an analysis comparing federal,
    state, municipal, and private firefighter wages to help determine
    recruitment and retention difficulty across geographic areas, as well
    as assessing DOI staff across GACCs to determine the appropriate
    increases in firefighter base salaries. Based on this analysis, it was
    determined that it is difficult to recruit and retain wildland
    firefighters in every geographic area. Please refer to Attachment 3 for
    information regarding the average salary increase in pay for wildland
    firefighters by GS level and geographic area.

        Question 4. DOI's Wildland Fire Management Initial Spend Plan
    states that ``DOI and USDA Forest Service are coordinating with OPM on
    an analysis to propose a special rate request for firefighters?''

        (4a). Is this analysis complete? If so, please provide the
    Subcommittee with a copy. If not, when will it be completed?

        Answer. President Biden recently announced the temporary
    supplemental pay increases for wildland firefighters that are
    authorized by IIJA. The Administration is continuing to assess long-
    term firefighter workforce reforms, including a potential special
    salary rate with OPM, and looks forward to working with Congress on
    these important investments as they continue to evolve.

        (4b). What specific criteria is/was DOI and USDA Forest Service
    using to determine whether to make a special rate request to OPM for
    wildland firefighters?

        Answer. The Administration remains to committed to a long-term
    solution to addressing firefighter pay. As discussed above, the
    Department is working with its Federal partners to develop potential
    long-term reforms. As part of this effort, we are assessing data in
    consideration of a potential special salary rate request for wildland
    firefighters. This includes criteria such as agencies' current staffing
    status; cross-sector salary cost comparisons; recruitment and retention
    challenges; assessment of the broader labor market; interaction with
    other pay flexibilities or other non-pay solutions; and estimates of
    the full staffing costs.

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Neguse. Thank you, Mr. Rupert.
        The Chair now recognizes Ms. Jaelith Hall-Rivera, a Deputy
    Chief of State and Private Forestry at the U.S. Department of
    Agriculture, Forest Service. Ms. Hall-Rivera, you have 5
    minutes.

       STATEMENT OF JAELITH HALL-RIVERA, DEPUTY CHIEF, STATE AND
       PRIVATE FORESTRY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, FOREST
                        SERVICE, WASHINGTON, DC

        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Great. Thank you so much Chairman Neguse,
    Ranking Member Herrell, and members of this Subcommittee. Thank
    you for the invitation to testify before you today. I deeply
    appreciate Congress' passage of the Bipartisan Infrastructure
    Law, or BIL, which provides a significant down payment on the
    work the Forest Service intends to accomplish under the 10-year
    strategy to confront the wildfire crisis.
        The Agency recognizes that the American people depend on
    the nation's forests and grasslands for their social, economic,
    and personal well-being. All the benefits that the nation's
    forests provide are at risk, as nearly a quarter of the
    contiguous United States is currently in a high to moderate
    wildfire condition.
        Over the last two decades, we have witnessed what has
    become a now familiar pattern--bigger and more destructive
    wildfires that are extremely challenging and costly to
    suppress. We have experienced catastrophic fire seasons in the
    last 2 years alone, devastating communities and destroying
    resources in their wake. They threaten human health, water
    quality, homes, jobs, local economies, communities, and
    infrastructure. They also threaten key ecological values,
    including carbon storage, species habitat, soil stability, and
    watershed functions, in some cases, even resulting in long-term
    deforestation.
        We are experiencing and are prepared for another long and
    arduous fire year in 2022. In fact, as we know, there was
    already significant fire activity occurring in the South, and
    we went nationally to preparedness Level 2 last week. Much of
    the West remains in drought. A high level of hazardous fuels
    across the landscape and the expanding wildland urban interface
    indicate we will face an extremely challenging fire year.
        Our priority, first and foremost, is to protect the health,
    safety, and well-being of the fire management community and the
    public we serve. The BIL supports the Forest Service's efforts
    to confront this crisis by investing in hazardous fuels
    reduction, fire risk mitigation across boundaries,
    technological advancements, and firefighter compensation.
        We are currently working on sending this money out to the
    field to begin work in high-priority landscapes to reduce
    wildfire risk to communities and watersheds. The over a billion
    dollars in funding targeted toward hazardous fuels reduction in
    Section 40803 of the BIL will allow us to begin implementing
    the 10-Year Wildfire Crisis Strategy. This funding also helps
    us to build new markets by providing financial assistance to
    facilities that purchase and process byproducts for ecosystem
    restoration projects from the $400 million that was authorized
    under Section 40804 of the law.
        The Community Wildfire Defense Grant Program will provide
    financial assistance using the billion dollars under Section
    40803(f) to be focused on at-risk communities to help them
    develop community wildfire protection plans and to implement
    those prevention and mitigation activities that are outlined in
    those plans.
        Hiring and retaining firefighters in increasingly long and
    complex fire years is a challenge that we all take seriously.
    Section 40803(d) of the BIL calls for the classification of the
    new and unique wildland firefighter series, provides funding
    for short-term salary increases, provides the ability for us
    and the Department of the Interior to convert a thousand
    seasonal firefighters into permanent fire managers and provides
    us the ability to increase investments in programs that focus
    on mental health, resilience, and well-being.
        USDA, in collaboration with its partners at Interior and
    the Office of Personnel Management, is working to implement
    these classification, pay, and staffing conversion provisions.
    The Infrastructure Law was a significant step in the right
    direction in terms of wildland firefighter compensation. And,
    once again, I thank you for your work on that. But we need to
    continue to work together to find a permanent solution to
    increasing our wildland firefighters' pay and making other
    system changes that ensure that we can continue to support our
    firefighters and ensure that this is a career that others will
    pursue in the future.
        The Infrastructure Bill also made investments in wildfire
    detection through sensors, cameras, and satellite platforms.
    The Forest Service has strong partnerships with NOAA, NASA, and
    the Department of Defense to continue using the best remote
    technology to detect and access wildfires on the landscape.
    Once again, I thank you for your investments and your interest
    in wildfire management, ecosystem restoration, and resilient
    communities. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I
    look forward to answering your questions.

        [The prepared statement of Ms. Hall-Rivera follows:]
      Prepared Statement of Jaelith Hall-Rivera, Deputy Chief for State &
        Private Forestry, U.S. Department of Agriculture-Forest Service
                                      and
         Brian Ferebee, Chief Executive of Intergovernmental Relations
        Thank you for inviting us to testify about the Forest Service's
    implementation of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL). We deeply
    appreciate Congress's passage of the BIL, which provides a significant
    down payment on the work we intend to accomplish under the 10-year
    Strategy to Confront the Wildfire Crisis. Of the $5.5 billion in
    funding provided by the BIL for the Forest Service, about $3 billion
    will be invested over five years to reduce the risk of wildland fire to
    communities and restore ecosystems.
    Value of Forests to People

        Since before America's founding, the health and productivity of the
    continent's lands and waters supported an abundance of human life and
    activity. Native peoples built some of the most enduring and advanced
    civilizations on Earth and are the original caretakers of all the
    beautiful lands across our nation. Traditional Ecological Knowledge
    continues to be at the heart of sustainable agriculture,
    environmentally sound fire management, and good land stewardship
    practices.
        Today, people continue to depend on the nation's forests and
    grasslands for their social, economic, and personal well-being.
    National forests and grasslands are critical for climate resilience,
    providing benefits that include carbon storage, habitat and
    connectivity for wildlife, and clean air and water. For example,
    nationwide, more than 60 million people living in 3,400 communities
    across 36 states depend on the national forests and grasslands for
    their drinking water.
        Americans also rely on their national forests and grasslands for
    outdoor recreation, cultural and spiritual connections, and respite.
    The benefits include physical exercise and all the mental and other
    health improvements that come with it. In 2020, the National Forest
    System had 168 million visitors, equivalent to more than 50% of the
    United States population. For local communities, this is where they
    live and gather. Outdoor activities and scenery give communities a
    sense of identity and place, adding to their quality of life.
        The National Forest System is also a tremendous source of jobs and
    economic opportunities for hundreds of thousands of Americans. In 2020,
    the National Forest System (NFS) supported more than 370,000 jobs and
    contributed more than $35 billion to our nation's Gross Domestic
    Product (GDP). In 2020, 66 percent of the NFS GDP contribution ($23.3
    billion) was associated with direct use of forest and grassland
    resources, including hunting, fishing, and other forms of outdoor
    recreation, livestock grazing, energy and mineral development, and
    forest products. Of this, recreation visitor use supported about
    168,300 jobs and contributed $13.5 billion. In addition, 31 percent of
    the GDP contribution ($10.9 billion) was tied to resource management
    investments, such as construction and maintenance of infrastructure,
    firefighting, ecosystem restoration, research and development, fuels
    treatments, and Job Corps. Finally, 3 percent of the GDP contribution
    ($872 million) was derived from payments to states and counties to
    support schools, roads, and other government services.

        All this and more are at risk on forests and grasslands nationwide.
    The Risks to Forests

        Nearly a quarter of the contiguous U.S. is currently in a high to
    moderate wildfire condition. Over the last two decades, we have
    witnessed what has become a now familiar pattern: bigger and more
    destructive wildfires that are extremely challenging and costly to
    suppress due to over 100 years of fire suppression, climate change, and
    expanding Wildland Urban Interface (WUI). We have experienced back-to-
    back catastrophic fire seasons in the last two years, devastating
    communities and destroying resources in their wake. Big destructive
    wildfires threaten human health, water quality, homes, jobs, local
    economies, communities, and infrastructure. They also threaten key
    ecological values, including carbon storage, species habitat, soil
    stability, and watershed function; and in some cases, even result in
    long-term deforestation.
        Conditions are only expected to worsen as the climate continues to
    change, and development in the WUI continues unabated. Vast areas of
    the West and across the country are at risk from huge wildfires that
    can quickly spread 10 to 30 square miles or more, burning through
    multiple landownerships, forest types, and communities.
        This growing wildfire crisis created the need for a new land
    management strategy--one designed to support strategic management and
    restoration of millions of acres of land in high-risk areas to protect
    forest health, ecosystem and watershed function, and human
    infrastructure. The need for increased pace and scale of restoration
    necessitates a holistic response in partnership with the Department of
    the Interior (DOI) and other Federal agencies, State and Tribal
    governments, communities, industries, organizations, and private
    landowners.
        This collaborative response needs to be a paradigm shift from
    small-scale, independently managed treatments to strategic, science-
    based landscape-scale treatments that cross boundaries and meet the
    scale of the problem, starting initially with those places critically
    at risk. It also needs to be paired with thoughtful reforms to address
    growth into the WUI and the growing climate crisis.
    The Wildfire Crisis Strategy

        Our 10-year Wildfire Crisis Strategy would increase science-based
    fuels treatments by up to four times previous treatment levels,
    especially in those areas most at risk. Fuels treatments by the Forest
    Service together with partners have made a difference over the years.
    But the scale of treatments has been outmatched by the rapid increase
    in the scale and severity of wildfires as climate change accelerates.
        This strategy calls for treating up to 20 million additional acres
    of National Forest System lands over the coming decade, and working
    with partners, including colleagues at the Department of the Interior,
    to treat up to 30 million additional acres on adjoining lands of
    multiple landownerships, while building a long-term maintenance plan.
    The intent for these treatments is to reduce the trajectory of wildfire
    risk to people, municipal water sources, communities, and natural
    resources, and restore fire-adapted landscapes so they are more
    resilient.
        Active management rooted in sound science and ecological principles
    will remain a key tool in this work. We are using every tool and
    authority we have to protect and improve the health of America's
    forests. The tools we have include, but are not limited to, prescribed
    fire, mechanical thinning, targeted grazing, Good Neighbor Authority
    agreements, Tribal Forest Protection Act agreements, and stewardship
    contracts.
        It will be imperative to use fire itself for fuel and forest
    management in our western landscapes because many of those ecosystems
    evolved with fire. Fire is an essential and highly effective fuel
    treatment to reduce wildfire risk and can have ecological benefits for
    many western forest types.
        Connecting landscape risk reduction and resilience with community
    risk reduction and resilience at the necessary scale is a critical part
    of the paradigm shift. Our tools for these connections include
    community fire prevention programs, community wildfire protection plans
    (CWPP), and Firewise practices for homes and communities to reduce the
    risk of catastrophic wildfire.
        I want to stress that the additional acres treated under the 10-
    year strategy will be over and above regular appropriations. That means
    the work that we have historically accomplished--in timber production,
    recreation, mining, wildlife habitat management, and more--will
    continue. We look forward to working with Congress on the President's
    Fiscal Year 2023 budget and beyond to ensure sufficient resources are
    in place to deliver on the 10-year strategy.
    BIL and the Wildfire Crisis Strategy

        The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law provides a down payment to begin
    the critical work outlined in our 10-year Wildfire Crisis Strategy. To
    achieve the collective impact that our forests and communities need, we
    must build a coalition to work across land management jurisdictions,
    leverage diverse capacities, and build broad public and community
    support for the work at the scale necessary to make a difference. This
    includes work across Federal, Tribal, State, local, and private lands.
    Partnerships, including those beyond existing contracts and agreements,
    will help identify barriers to success and ways to overcome them.
    Hazardous Fuels Reduction

        The Forest Service has worked closely with the regions to identify
    projects within high risk fireshed landscapes designed to reduce
    wildfire risk to communities and watersheds. The funding of these
    projects, using the over $1.6 billion in the BIL, will allow us to
    begin implementing the 10-year Wildfire Crisis Strategy. The Forest
    Service is also leveraging this moment to increase funding
    opportunities to work with Tribal partners, young adult, Native youth,
    and veteran crews to treat hazardous fuels in firesheds on federal
    lands.
        The Forest Service is prioritizing investments of the $400 million
    authorized under Section 40804 of the BIL to provide financial
    assistance to facilities that purchase and process byproducts from
    ecosystem restoration projects and the $12 million from Division J of
    the BIL that support wood innovations and community wood proposals in
    priority fireshed landscapes. The Forest Service will also explore
    options to establish innovative new approaches for delivering financial
    assistance to forest products facilities via existing authorities.
        Section 40804 of the BIL provides $160 million to provide funds to
    States and Tribes for implementing restoration projects on federal
    lands through the Good Neighbor Authority.
        Section 40808 of the BIL codifies the Joint Chiefs Landscape
    Restoration Partnership Program, including criteria for evaluation of
    proposals, and authorizes the appropriation of $90 million for each of
    fiscal years 2022 and 2023, with not less than 40 percent allocated to
    carry out eligible activities through the National Resource
    Conservation Service (NRCS) and not less than 40 percent allocated to
    carry out eligible activities through the Forest Service. The Joint
    Chiefs program reduces wildfire threats to communities and landowners,
    protects water quality and supply, and improves wildlife habitat for
    at-risk species. The Joint Chiefs program also leverages technical and
    financial assistance to increase the pace and scale of restoration
    efforts across all lands. This multi-year partnership between the
    Forest Service and the NRCS has been in place since fiscal year 2014
    and has provided $335 million in funding for 110 projects.
        Section 40806 of the BIL provides the Forest Service with new
    National Environmental Policy Act authorities, including a new
    Categorical Exclusion for linear fuel breaks. The Forest Service has
    prepared guidance to assist Forests and Regions in applying the new
    Categorical Exclusion and it is available for use currently. We will
    update Forest Service NEPA directives to include the categorical
    exclusion in the future.
    Cooperative Fire Risk Mitigation

        The Forest Service is working with the National Association of
    State Foresters, Intertribal Timber Council, and other partners to
    implement the Community Wildfire Defense Grant (CWDG) Program
    authorized in Section 40803(f) of the BIL and funded with $1 billion to
    be spent over a five-year period. The CWDG program will provide
    financial assistance to ``at-risk'' communities to develop CWPPs and to
    implement prevention and mitigation activities described within CWPPs
    which will reduce wildfire risk. Communities that have a high or very
    high risk of wildfire, are considered low-income, or have been impacted
    by a severe disaster will all be given priority in the consideration
    process for grants.
        Division J of the BIL appropriates not less than $88 million
    additional funds for State Fire Assistance (SFA) and $20 million for
    Volunteer Fire Assistance (VFA) to be spent over a five-year period.
    The additional SFA grant funding will assist State forestry agencies to
    improve the capacity State forestry agencies to assist communities with
    wildfire mitigation efforts and to increase local capacity to respond
    to and suppress wildfires. The additional VFA funding will assist rural
    volunteer fire departments to make initial attack response on wildfires
    while they are small and easier to suppress.
    BIL and Post Fire Recovery

        Sections 70301-70303 of the BIL, the REPLANT Act, gives us a
    historic opportunity to address the reforestation backlog needs from
    wildfires and other disturbances. This provision removes the $30
    million annual cap on the Reforestation Trust Fund, giving the Forest
    Service more resources for post-fire reforestation. With the REPLANT
    Act, we anticipate spending between $140 to $260 million per year for
    reforestation and related work. This will enable us to ramp up
    reforestation treatments to almost 500,000 acres/year, including
    200,000 acres of planting--a more than 300% increase. The Forest
    Service is developing policy to implement this program using existing
    programmatic structures. Reforestation provides one of the main tools
    for national forests to adapt to and mitigate the effects of climate
    change. By reforesting in the right place, at the right time, with the
    right trees, we foster development of future resilient forests, and the
    ecosystem benefits they provide for us and future generations.
        Section 40803 of the BIL provides $100 million to the Forest
    Service for burned area rehabilitation activities that must be
    implemented within 3 years of containment of a wildland fire. Division
    J includes $45 million each of fiscal years 2022-2026 for post-fire
    recovery as well. These funds are being focused on the repair or
    improvement of lands unlikely to recover naturally to a management-
    approved condition and to repair and replace minor infrastructure and
    facilities damaged by the fire.
        Section 40804 of the BIL also provides funding for revegetation
    activities which will involve interagency collaboration and
    coordination in support of the National Seed Strategy.
        Section 40807 of the BIL authorizes emergency determinations that
    allow for proactive or post-event emergency actions to address
    underlying emergency conditions. The authority can be used for single
    event responses or be applied to larger landscapes as conditions
    warrant. Procedures and guidance for applying the emergency
    determination authority are being developed.
        Division J of the BIL appropriates $300 million in additional
    funding for the Emergency Watershed Protection Program to repair
    damages to the waterways and watersheds resulting from natural
    disasters. The Forest Service is currently working with NRCS to develop
    an MOU to guide the process of using these funds to implement projects
    on NFS lands.
    BIL and Wildland Firefighter Compensation
        Hiring and retaining firefighters in increasingly long and complex
    fire years is a challenge that we take seriously. The BIL provides
    targeted funds that enable the Forest Service to make significant
    investments in a stable, professional, permanent wildland firefighting
    workforce, and in programs that focus on mental health, resilience, and
    well-being. Section 40803(d) of the BIL calls for the classification of
    a wildland firefighter series, provides for possible pay increases for
    wildland firefighters, and for the Forest Service and the Department of
    the Interior to convert 1,000 seasonal firefighters into permanent fire
    managers. USDA, in collaboration with its partners at DOI and the
    Office of Personnel Management (OPM), is working to implement the BIL
    classification, pay, and staffing conversion provisions.
        To implement Section 40803(d)(4)(B), we are coordinating with DOI
    and OPM to provide the Secretaries with analyses of ``specified
    geographic areas in which it is difficult to recruit or retain a
    Federal wildland firefighter'' as outlined in the BIL.
        The funds allocated in the BIL are a first step in appropriately
    compensating our federal wildland firefighters. We are looking beyond
    the BIL to develop longer-term proposals to permanently revise wildland
    firefighter pay.
    BIL and Technology Investments in Wildland Fire

        Section 40803 of the BIL establishes $10 million for the Forest
    Service and DOI to spend on the Geostationary Operational Environmental
    Satellite (GOES) Program to rapidly detect and report wildfire starts;
    $30 million for USDA grants to States and local governments to
    establish and operate Reverse-911 telecommunication systems; and $10
    million shared between Forest Service and DOI for the procurement and
    placement of wildfire detection and real-time monitoring equipment,
    such as sensors, cameras, and other relevant equipment, in areas at
    risk of wildfire or post-burned areas.
        On March 9, 2022, the initial kickoff for the ground-based cameras
    and sensors project was conducted and we are working with Alert
    Wildfire regarding architectures and agreement structures. We have also
    met with NASA and Delphire Technologies regarding sensors and
    integrating sensor data. We are working with the Colorado Center of
    Excellence to secure agreements and kick off pilot testing.
        We have been meeting weekly with NOAA and Interagency Council for
    Advancing Meteorological Services (ICAMS) to coordinate work plans and
    spend plans through active public-private partnerships. We are also
    working with the Thermal Working Group to build an evaluation plan of
    GOES, Fire Autonomous Detection & Dissemination System (FADDS), and
    other sources of data.
    Wildfire Commission in BIL

        In December 2021, USDA, DOI, and the Department of Homeland
    Security through the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
    announced the establishment of a Wildland Fire Mitigation and
    Management Commission. This Commission fulfills Sections 70201-70207 of
    the BIL and represents a critical step in combating the wildfire crisis
    and improving resilience on the nation's landscapes. The Wildfire
    Mitigation and Management Commission is tasked to study and make
    recommendations to improve Federal policies relating to--(1) the
    prevention, mitigation, suppression, and management of wildland fires
    in the United States; and (2) the rehabilitation of land in the United
    States devastated by wildland fires. An announcement calling for
    applications to the commission, with a focus on non-federal members,
    representing State, local, Tribal, and private stakeholders, was
    announced on March 10, 2022, and closed on March 25, 2022. Applications
    are currently under review, with the first Commission meeting targeted
    for late spring.
    Conclusion

        We greatly appreciate the significant resources Congress has
    provided through the BIL that will allow the Forest Service, with our
    many partners, to take the initial steps to address the wildfire
    crisis. This work will result in resilient landscapes that have
    ecologic integrity, provide essential ecosystem services including
    carbon storage and habitat for wildlife, and boundless opportunities
    for American citizens to recreate.
        The Forest Service looks forward to working with this Subcommittee
    to reduce the severity of wildfires in our country. This concludes our
    testimony. We welcome any questions the Subcommittee may have.

                                     ______

       Questions Submitted for the Record to Jaelith Hall-Rivera, Deputy
             Chief, State and Private Forestry, U.S. Forest Service
                  Questions Submitted by Representative Porter
        Question 1. The Subcommittee is aware that the U.S. Forest Service
    recently completed a Recruitment and Retention Survey in Region 5.
    Please provide the Subcommittee with the results of this survey and any
    additional views USFS wishes to share with the Subcommittee.

        Answer. The Pacific Southwest Region (Region 5) is in the process
    of soliciting information from firefighters on what they perceive to be
    the challenges for recruiting and retaining firefighters in California.
    Initial data has been summarized into eight issues. While these issues
    were previously identified, extensive analytical and empirical
    breakdown of the barriers impacting recruitment and retention has been
    lacking. The Pacific Southwest Regions' efforts to gather data will
    help support agency-wide efforts to address these issues. The Region 5
    Fire and Aviation Management Recruitment and Retention Survey is
    included as Appendix A. [The Appendix can be viewed on the Committee
    Repository at: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/II/II10/20220405/114579/
    HHRG-117-II10-20220405-SD32425667.pdf]

        Hiring and retaining wildland firefighters in increasingly long and
    complex fire years is a challenge that we take seriously. The BIL and
    the FY 2023 President's Budget provide a significant down payment
    toward Forest Service investments in a stable, professional, permanent
    wildland firefighting workforce, as well as for workforce programs that
    focus on mental health, resilience, and wellbeing. The BIL remedies
    many issues that have been front and center for the wildland
    firefighting community. We continue to hear substantial concerns from
    the field, and we acknowledge that there is more work to do on issues
    such as housing and work/life balance during the very stressful fire
    years, as well as the need to increase firefighter capacity. We will
    continue to work on these issues so that jobs with the Forest Service
    remain a desirable and sought-after opportunity.

        The BIL provides a $600 million investment in firefighter pay
    increases to the Forest Service and the Department of the Interior, as
    well as conversions of temporary employees to permanent full-time
    employees. These permanent firefighters will be able to respond to
    wildfires as well as increase hazardous fuel treatments across
    landscapes before wildfires happen. We are working diligently with the
    Office of Personnel Management (OPM) to identify which positions are
    eligible for BIL pay increases.

        The BIL also directed the development of a new Wildland Firefighter
    occupational series. The Forest Service is collaborating with the
    Department of the Interior and the OPM to create a wildland firefighter
    occupational series that better reflects the unique responsibilities
    and skillsets of our firefighters. To ensure this process is evidence-
    based and objective, we are assembling and analyzing extensive
    workforce data and collecting input from a diverse group of
    firefighters across a range of positions, particularly from field-level
    personnel.

        The FY 2023 Budget requests an increase of more than $330 million
    from the FY 2022 Enacted level in Wildland Fire Management Salaries and
    Expenses to ensure ongoing support of these priorities, implement the
    $15 per hour minimum wage for firefighters, and gradually raise base
    capacity levels to enhance response to year-round fire activity.
    Additionally, a $20 million increase in the FY 2023 Budget from FY2022
    Enacted levels in Wildland Fire Management Preparedness will be
    leveraged to supply fleet, equipment, and supplies for increased base
    capacity staffing levels.

        Under President Biden's initiatives to recognize and support
    federal wildland firefighters, more than 11,300 firefighters received
    an additional $24.3 million in pay in 2021. In January 2022, a
    permanent federal minimum wage of $15/hour was implemented via
    Executive Order. Creating greater pay parity commensurate with non-
    federal firefighters will likely help resolve recruitment and
    challenges, and result in significant cost savings in training
    firefighters due to attrition.

        The Forest Service continues to work through the staffing process
    of our largest onboarding period for firefighters for both temporary
    and permanent employees. Interviews and selections are ongoing.

        Question 2. How much money did USFS spend on reimbursement to state
    and local authorities for firefighting resources through
    intergovernmental agreements or other mechanisms during FY22? What does
    USFS project to spend in FY23? Please provide information disaggregated
    by state, region, and National Forest.

        Answer. Through March FY 2022, the Forest Service spent the
    following on reimbursements to states and local authorities for
    firefighting resources through cooperative agreements. The data is
    provided by state only. Reimbursements are managed at the national
    level for state payments, and we do not reconcile them at different
    levels of the agency (region and national forest).
    Table 1: Forest Service Fire Suppression Cooperative Agreements

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        National Support includes costs for fire suppression
    activities occurring on multiple wildfires which cannot be attributed
    to a specific wildfire, such as dispatch work or local cache activity.
    It also includes Severity costs, which are used to adjust planning to
    improve initial attack response as well as wildfire prevention
    activities when extraordinary weather and/or fire conditions have the
    potential to result in wildfires. Lastly, it includes costs to mitigate
    the spread of the coronavirus.

        The agency does not project suppression costs by individual cost
    categories but instead focuses on the estimated overall need for the
    upcoming year's fire activity. For FY2023, the agency requested $1.011
    billion in Suppression and $2.21 billion in the Wildfire Suppression
    Operations Reserve Fund (fire fix) in the President's Budget Request.
    Each fire year's suppression costs are unique and driven by the
    complexities of fire activity, and most significantly by locations of
    fire starts, which are unpredictable.
        Note that fires not only span fiscal years, but also costs
    associated with a wildfire incident may take multiple fiscal years to
    resolve as items like cost-share agreements, cost-recovery efforts, and
    invoice submissions are reconciled. Consequently, the figures displayed
    in this table reflect significant costs from fire suppression activity
    from the fourth quarter of FY21 and prior.

        Question 3. How much money did USFS spend contracting for
    firefighting resources during FY22? How much does USFS project to spend
    in FY23? Please provide information disaggregated by state, region,
    National Forest.

        Answer. Through March of FY 2022 the Forest Service has spent the
    following on contracts for firefighting resources.

    Table 2: Forest Service Fire Suppression Contracts by National Forest

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

         National Support includes costs for fire suppression
    activities occurring on multiple wildfires which cannot be attributed
    to a specific wildfire, such as dispatch work or local cache activity.
    It also includes Severity costs, which are used to adjust planning to
    improve the initial attack response as well as wildfire prevention
    activities when extraordinary weather and/or fire conditions have the
    potential to result in wildfires extraordinary weather and/or fire
    conditions have the potential to result in wildfires. Lastly, it
    includes costs to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus.

        **Non Forest Service Jurisdiction are Wildfires managed by other
    agencies in which the Forest Service contributed to the efforts.

        ***Regional Services includes costs for suppression activities that
    occur across forest boundaries within the region.

        The agency does not project suppression costs by individual cost
    categories but instead focuses on the estimated overall need for the
    upcoming year's fire activity. For FY2023, the agency has requested
    $1.011 billion in Suppression and $2.21 billion in the Wildfire
    Suppression Operations Reserve Fund (fire fix) in the President's
    Budget Request. Each fire year's suppression costs are unique and
    driven by the complexities of fire activity, and most significantly by
    locations of fire starts, which are unpredictable.

        Note that fires not only span fiscal years, but also costs
    associated with a wildfire incident may take multiple fiscal years to
    resolve as items like cost-share agreements, cost-recovery efforts, and
    invoice submissions are reconciled. Consequently, the figures displayed
    in this table reflect significant costs from fire suppression activity
    from the fourth quarter of FY21 and prior.

        Question 4. The Subcommittee understands that Region 6 Type 1
    Interagency Hotshot Crews (IHC) receive an average of $38,000 per year
    to procure equipment such as PPE, chainsaws, and communications
    equipment. The Subcommittee understands that most Region 5 IHCs receive
    a budget of roughly $8,000-$10,000 for the same requirements.

        (4a). Please explain this discrepancy.

        (4b). Does the USFS believe that out-of-pocket expenses associated
    with equipment may be contributing to the financial strain on wildland
    firefighters in Region 5? If so, what steps is USFS taking to address
    these add financial burdens?

        Answer. The disparity between operating budgets of Hot Shot crews
    is happening, and we are taking steps to address the issue. This
    disparity occurs for several reasons but can be attributed primarily to
    the way we allocate funds within the agency. All funds are initially
    allocated from the national office to Regions who then distribute these
    funds amongst national forest units based on national and regional
    priorities. Given the range of priorities across Regions, the amount
    allocated to one national forest and subsequent crews within that unit
    does vary across the agency.

        Given the importance of all firefighting assets, the Forest Service
    recognizes the need to standardize the process for acquiring equipment
    to ensure crews can operate safely and effectively. In FY 2022 the
    agency established a new process that supplements the initial
    allocation crews and other firefighters receive for equipment, so they
    can replace, purchase and maintain existing essential equipment. This
    enables all firefighting assets to maintain equipment standards
    throughout the year. The agency is assessing a more robust change in
    our allocation strategy that will move toward a more standardized
    system for allocation of funds to Regions for IHCs and other national
    fire response resources for firefighting equipment needs.

                                     ______

        Mr. Neguse. Thank you, Ms. Hall-Rivera.
        The Chair now recognizes Mr. Brian Ferebee, Chief Executive
    of Intergovernmental Relations at the U.S. Department of
    Agriculture, Forest Service. Mr. Ferebee, you have 5 minutes.

            STATEMENT OF BRIAN FEREBEE, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF
     INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE,
                     FOREST SERVICE, WASHINGTON, DC

        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you, Chairman Neguse, Ranking Member
    Herrell, and members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the
    invitation to testify before you today. The Bipartisan
    Infrastructure Law, or BIL, is a critical first step in helping
    the Forest Service to confront the wildfire crisis. As outlined
    by Deputy Chief Hall-Rivera, the benefits that American forests
    and grasslands provide are at risk from wildfire. Unless we do
    something about the wildfire crisis, it would only get worse.
        To protect communities and natural resources, we need to
    restore healthy, resilient, fire-adapted forests. It would take
    a paradigm shift to confront the wildfire crisis facing the
    nation. The old paradigm is to use our limited funds and
    capacity to scatter treatments randomly across the landscape to
    the best of our limited ability.
        The new paradigm is to step up the pace and scale of our
    treatments to match the actual scale of the wildfire crisis
    across the landscape while using science as an underpinning to
    assist in determining where we treat. We worked with
    scientists, tribes, state governments, and partner
    organizations to prepare the 10-year strategy and draft
    implementation plan for confronting the wildfire crisis while
    also working with DOI on their 5-year strategic plan. While we
    sustain current treatment levels in the South, Midwest, and
    Northeast, we plan to dramatically increase fuels and forest
    health treatments by up to four times the current treatment
    levels in the West where the wildfire risk to homes and
    communities are the highest.
        Less than 10 percent of our fire-prone forests in the West
    account for roughly 80 percent of the fire risk to communities.
    While we will focus on high-risk firesheds where the risk to
    lives, homes, communities, and natural resources are the
    greatest, we will work with partners to treat an additional 20
    million acres on National Forest System lands and 30 million
    acres on other Federal, state, and tribal private lands.
        In order to implement this nation-wide strategy, we are
    building a workforce capacity in the Forest Service to match
    the scale of the work. To achieve the collective impact that
    our forests and communities need, we must build a coalition to
    work across land management jurisdictions, leverage diverse
    capacity, and build broad public and community support to work
    at the scale necessary to make a difference. This includes work
    across Federal, state, local, and private lands and with
    nongovernmental organizations. The BIL supports the Forest
    Service's efforts to confront this crisis by investing in
    hazardous fuel reduction, bio-risk mitigation across
    boundaries, and post-fire restoration.
        The Agency is working closely with the regions to identify
    projects within high-risk fireshed landscapes, designed to
    reduce wildfire risks to communities and watersheds. The
    funding of these projects using the over $1 billion authorized
    under the Section 40803 in the BIL will allow us to begin
    implementing the 10-Year Wildfire Crisis Strategy.
        The REPLANT Act under Section 70301-70303 of the BIL gives
    us an historic opportunity to address reforestation backlog
    needs with wildfires and other disturbances. This provision
    removes the cap from reforestation trust funds, giving us more
    resources for post-fire restoration. This will enable us to
    ramp up the reforestation treatments to almost a half a million
    acres a year, including 200,000 acres of planting, a more than
    300 percent increase.
        The BIL provides $100 million under Section 40803 and $45
    million under Division J for restoration activities that are
    implemented no later than 3 years after the date of wildfires
    is contained. These funds are being focused to repair and
    replace minor infrastructure and facility damaged by fires and
    on the repair or improvement of lands that are unlikely to
    recover naturally to the management-approved conditions. The
    BIL makes important investments in cross-boundary tools such as
    Good Neighbor Authority by providing $160 million in Section
    40804 to provide funds to states and tribes for implementing
    restoration projects on Federal lands and by codifying the
    Joint Chief Landscape Restoration Partnership Program in
    Section 40808.
        In closing, we greatly appreciate the significant down
    payment Congress has provided through the BIL that will allow
    us, the Forest Service, with many of our partners, to take the
    initial steps to address the wildfire crisis. This work will
    result in resilient landscapes that have ecologic integrity,
    provide essential ecosystem services, including carbon storage
    and habitat for wildlife, and boundless opportunities for
    American citizens to recreate.
        The Forest Service looks forward to working with you in the
    Subcommittee to reduce the severity of wildfires in our
    country. Thank you for this opportunity. Happy to answer any
    questions you may have.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Ferebee follows:]

    Mr. Ferebee's prepared statement is combined with Ms. Jaelith
    Hall-Rivera (see page 21).

        Questions Submitted for the Record to Mr. Brian Ferebee, Chief
         Executive of Intergovernmental Relations, U.S. Department of
                          Agriculture, Forest Service
                 Questions Submitted by Representative Grijalva
        Question 1. How much (or what percentage) of USFS BIL funding is
    expected to support salaries and related expenses? Please provide as
    much detail as possible about which positions within the agency will be
    funded, including which BIL programs and appropriations accounts will
    support which positions.

        Answer. Implementation of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL)
    will take significant staff support, both federal employees and
    contract staff. However, funds were not provided specifically for
    salaries and expenses (S&E). With the new Forest Service budget
    structure, S&E funds needed to be transferred from the program funds
    into the specific S&E accounts. The Forest Service continues to refine
    these estimates as implementation continues. Below is more detail on
    funding and positions:

         Research and Development (R&D) account

                --  Research and Development is funded at $68M, including
            transfers. $26.4M or 39% of the funds will be used to support
            S&E.

                --  In FY 2022, the agency's investment in R&D salaries
            will focus on staffing to provide science, science delivery,
            and decision support to enhance the rigor and impact of the
            implementation of BIL provisions.

                --  Positions for science support of implementation include
            field technicians, postdoctoral scientists (terms and NTEs),
            technology transfer specialists, science communication
            specialists, and project coordinators to leverage partnerships
            with universities and to assist with delivering value to the
            deputy areas implementing provisions.

         Capital Improvement and Maintenance (CIM) account--The
                National Forest System is analyzing the appropriate mix of
                federal and contract staff prior to transferring any CIM
                funds for S&E.

         National Forest System (NFS) account

                --  National Forest System is funded at $499M, including
            transfers. $146.8M or 29% of the funds will be used to support
            S&E. This may be impacted by the mix of federal and contract
            staff determined for CIM.

                --  For FY 2022, the agency's support to NFS salaries will
            be focused on providing funds for on-the-ground staffing and
            support staff needed to facilitate funding to partners for
            critical project work.

                --  Positions to support implementation include contracting
            specialists, grants and agreement specialists, engineers, as
            well as natural resource specialists providing technical
            assistance, oversight, and monitoring.

         State and Private Forestry (SPF) account

                --  State and Private Forestry is funded at $260M,
            including transfers. $9.1M or 3% of the funds will be used to
            support S&E.

                --  For FY 2022, the agency's support to SPF salaries will
            be focused on providing funds for on-the-ground staffing and
            support staff needed to facilitate funding to partners for
            critical project work.

                --  Positions to support implementation include grants and
            agreement specialists and natural resource specialists to
            provide technical assistance, oversight and monitoring.

         Wildland Fire Management (WFM) account

                --  Wildland Fire Management is funded at $552M, including
            transfers. $499M or 91% of the funds will be used to support
            S&E. Of this, $480 million, or 87% is for the wildland
            firefighter pay supplement provision.

                --  For FY22, the agency's support to WFM salaries will be
            focused on addressing the wildfire crisis with a primary focus
            on the recently announced initial landscapes at high risk of
            wildfire and ongoing fire suppression needs.

                --  Positions to support implementation include
            firefighters for on the ground implementation and resource
            specialists to provide technical assistance, oversight, and
            monitoring.

         Forest Service Operations (FSO) account

                --  Of the funds transferred to FSO, $69M or 33% of the
            funds will be used to support S&E.

                --  Positions to support implementation include human
            resources specialists, information technology specialists,
            grants and agreements specialists, contracting specialists,
            budget and management analysts, accountants and financial
            analysts, work environment specialists, and communications
            coordinators.

        Question 2. BLM recently announced an initiative focused on hiring
    hundreds of additional staff to make up for a long-standing shortfall
    in workforce capacity. The Forest Service has similarly testified about
    the challenges associated with addressing non-fire staffing capacity
    which has significantly declined over time. Is USFS planning a similar
    staffing effort focused on non-fire workforce? If so, for what
    positions and where within the agency will these new hires be located?

        Answer. The Forest Service is preparing a strategic staffing plan
    to meet the expectations of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL).
    With major investments in ecosystem restoration, now is the time to add
    both short and long-term capacity for delivering outcomes associated
    with these efforts, which requires staffing support from a variety of
    occupations. With the amount of attrition estimated to exceed 20
    percent over the next 5 years, coupled with historically low staffing
    levels and limited Human Resource Management capacity needed to enable
    the hiring and onboarding of additional Forest Service positions we
    will use a collective hiring model to build capacity in priority
    programs and locations.

        To facilitate short-term, large-scale hiring, we are implementing a
    national hiring strategy designed to target our most critical capacity
    needs using expedited processes. In the first wave, we hired:

         91 Grants and Agreements Specialists

         149 Contract Specialists

         Over 100 Human Resources Specialists and Assistants

        The second, and future waves, are focused on occupations that
    increase capacity to conduct critical program-level projects, including
    Civil Engineers, Foresters and natural resource professionals to
    design, create, and ensure agency work meets the highest standards of
    natural resource management. These positions are targeted toward
    locations across the spectrum of National Forest System lands,
    primarily at the National Forest and Ranger District levels, for the
    purpose of planning, and implementing vital ecosystem restoration and
    wildfire mitigation work. Currently, we are employing traditional
    advertisements and using special hiring authorities to add critical
    engineering and natural resources (STEM) positions. Hiring for the
    following vacant positions is well underway and we anticipate many of
    the selected candidates will be onboard by the end of September, with a
    handful onboarding in early FY 2023.

         Approximately 150 Civil Engineers

         250 Foresters, and more than 500 Forestry Technicians

         1,000 Recreation Management Specialists, Recreation
                Technicians, and Archaeologists (total for all three
                professions)

        In late July, we anticipate starting the process to hire for the
    following occupations, starting with the Partnership and Community
    Engagement Coordinators. Onboarding is anticipated to occur through the
    first quarter of FY 2023:

         Approximately 50 Partnerships and Community Engagement
                Coordinators

         Over 100 Lands and Special Uses Specialists

         Natural Resources Specialists and Biological Scientists
                (number to be determined)

        This critical hiring effort includes positions at all levels of the
    agency and in locations across the nation.

        Additionally, State and Private Forestry programs have evolved, and
    we are developing our workforce to meet these trends and future demand.
    Non-fire positions are being added to assist States, Tribes,
    localities, and underserved communities. The BIL limited spending for
    salary and related expenses to 3% of funds within Division J. With
    available funds from BIL and regular appropriations, State and Private
    Forestry will focus staffing to contribute to agency goals. Our
    cooperative programs protect communities from wildfire, restore and
    increase resilience of non-federal forests, help create markets for
    wood products, enhance urban forests, especially to advance racial
    equity, and address threats to Federal and non-federal forests from
    insects and disease. Positions in State and Private Forestry are being
    added principally in regional and field offices to revitalize and
    expand technical customer service delivery for all our programs. Demand
    for technical assistance has increased due to trends in climate change
    and increased invasive species introductions. Forest health technical
    assistance provides support for prevention and suppression management
    activities to address these issues. Positions in Cooperative Forestry
    are being added to support enhanced forest conservation and retention,
    urban and community forestry and wood innovations like mass timber
    market development and biomass-based renewable fuels.
        Question 3. The BIL requires USFS to issue a Five-Year Monitoring,
    Maintenance, and Treatment Plan. This type of information is also
    typically provided in annual budget submissions. Please outline how
    USFS will be reporting annual accomplishments to Congress, specifically
    how the agency plans to communicate metrics and programmatic
    accomplishments beyond simply ``acres treated'' and board feet cleared.
    For example, is there a plan to monitor metrics such as improved Fire
    Regime Condition Class and expected maintenance intervals, acres
    treated with prescribed fire or restored by managed fire, miles of
    unneeded road removed, road to trail conversions, watersheds moved to
    an improved condition class, miles of fish habitat reconnected, the
    number of culverts storm-proofed, acres of critical habitat and
    wildlife corridors restored? Are there other metrics USFS is tracking
    or considering?

        Answer. Congress passing the BIL provided the Forest Service a
    unique opportunity to be more strategic in the way we approach planning
    and implementation of our work. In addition, we are leveraging this
    opportunity to evaluate how we define and measure success related to
    reducing risk to our communities, community infrastructure and
    associated economies. In short, we are developing new outcome
    performance measures that better describe success while building upon
    our current output measures.
        The complexity of BIL funding allocation poses several unique
    reporting challenges that merit special action to ensure that the
    Forest Service can provide full accountability for funding use and
    provide the highest possible service to the public. The agency is
    establishing a centralized and comprehensive data governance model to
    assist land managers in making funding decisions over the life of BIL
    implementation. Accurate and precise planning and frequent reporting in
    our authoritative data systems are critical foundational steps to
    creating transparency, accessibility and engagement in BIL
    implementation.
        We are focused on outcome-based work to achieve mutually desired
    priorities, including reducing risk to people, communities, natural
    resources, and other values at the scale of wildfire risk. While
    accomplishing this work with and through partners, we will use
    prioritization tools including Potential Operational Delineations when
    looking at project layout and design. The Forest Service currently uses
    the Terrestrial Condition Assessment to analyze and report on
    ecological outcomes in an annual key performance indicator (percent of
    National Forests System landscape ecosystems improved, maintained, or
    recovering due to management actions). We are also developing outcome-
    based performance measures to track accomplishments and effectiveness
    and inform continued work, including fireshed key performance
    indicators.
        In addition to reducing wildland fire risk, successful
    implementation of the BIL will include a wide range of restoration
    activities, including restoring fish passages; detecting and
    eradicating invasive species; mitigating environmental hazards from
    mined lands; and national reforestation efforts. Measures of success
    with these activities may include resilience improved in watersheds and
    landscapes; our ability to tackle climate change; and how we can
    advance social and racial equity and accessibility during
    implementation. Ecosystem restoration creates resilient landscapes that
    can be managed for multiple uses and provide ecosystem services, such
    as carbon storage and sequestration. Baseline metrics are often our
    best tangible measure of success in these areas.
        For the work under the ecosystem restoration provisions of the BIL,
    the agency is working to develop guidance in collaboration with our
    Research and Development Deputy Area for monitoring, reporting, and
    tracking accomplishments. We are working to develop tracking approaches
    to work within existing databases and reporting mechanisms (i.e.,
    Biennial Monitoring and Evaluation Reports, Broad Scale Monitoring).
    National level staff will summarize data for the Regions when it is
    more efficient to do so. The agency is also exploring options for
    displaying and communicating these outcomes to the public through our
    website and other means.
        For example, the Forest Service is committed to tracking and
    reporting on Legacy Roads and Trails projects, requiring several
    project performance metrics to be reported for all projects receiving
    BIL funding, including miles of unauthorized and previously closed
    roads decommissioned, miles of roads converted to trails, miles of
    upstream aquatic habitat reconnected, number of Endangered Species Act
    (ESA)-listed species positively impacted, number of culverts replaced,
    number of road bridges and miles of road improved and others. Reports
    for all completed projects will be submitted in the fiscal year the
    project construction is complete.
        We recognize the need for monitoring and performance metrics that
    incorporate old growth conservation or restoration. The agency is in
    the early stages of working with the science community to develop
    monitoring protocols for the BIL. We are developing a monitoring system
    for old growth that uses Forest Inventory and Analysis data, and may
    incorporate small area estimation techniques and locally collected
    information to allow us to track the amount of old growth on National
    Forest System lands. This method will recognize the ecological
    variation in regional old growth definitions. We are also evaluating
    other methods to provide information on the location of old growth
    forests and track the Forest Service's success conserving, restoring,
    and adapting these valuable ecosystems. This effort is also consistent
    with provisions in the recent Executive Order 14072, Strengthening the
    Nation's Forests, Communities, and Local Economies.

        Question 4. The BIL contains several grant programs and other
    mechanism designed to award funds and address cross-boundary projects.
    These programs and projects are of critical importance to states and
    local communities. Can USFS commit to notifying Congress and the public
    as funding opportunities are available, projects are selected, and
    awards are granted?

        Answer. The Forest Service is committed to communicating BIL grant
    program opportunities on a regular basis to Congress and the public.
    All competitive grant announcements will be posted to grants.gov to
    ensure that the public is notified of opportunities to apply. All award
    information is available to the public via usaspending.gov.
        Some BIL provisions have resulted in specific programs that will
    conduct national and regional competitive grant processes. For the
    Community Wildfire Defense grant program, the agency is excited about
    the opportunity to increase community mitigation efforts, working
    closely with our partners and non-governmental organizations. Another
    process relates to invasive species funding on non-federal lands. This
    process will be conducted on a regional basis through State, private,
    and Forest Service collaboration to determine priority issues, areas
    and to select projects aimed at those priorities.

                                     ______

        Mr. Neguse. Thank you. The hearing will proceed with Member
    questions, and we will start with the gentleman from New York,
    Mr. Tonko. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Tonko. Thank you, Chairman Neguse and Ranking Member
    Herrell, for holding this hearing and to our witnesses for
    taking meaningful action to combat wildfires and the climate
    crisis that fuels them so that communities across our great
    nation may continue to access clean water, recreation, and
    certainly wildlife ecosystems for generations.
        I am indeed proud to represent the capital region of New
    York where many in our community care deeply about our nation's
    public lands and forests, whether they be at home in New York
    or across the nation. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law focused
    on the Western forests facing the greatest wildlife risks. But
    nationally, 20 percent of the nation's freshwater flows from
    these Forest Service-managed lands.
        Mr. Ferebee, as you mentioned in your testimony, more than
    60 million people living in 3,400 communities across some 36
    states depend on our national forests and grasslands for their
    drinking water. It is so critical that we implement science-
    based holistic restoration strategies to combat the wildfire
    crisis and protect these vital forests for the benefit of
    communities everywhere. Among the Bipartisan Infrastructure
    Law's investments was a $100 million annual increase to the
    Reforestation Trust Fund, wildfire funding included for burned
    area recovery, restoration programs, and significant funding
    for DOI and USFS ecosystem restoration and remediation
    programs. So, Mr. Ferebee, how will the Forest Service leverage
    these investments to ensure reforestation and restoration are
    based on science while accounting for climate change,
    biodiversity loss, and ecosystem services?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for the question, Congressman. As we
    move out on this work, it is critically important that we
    acknowledge all of our work aligned with the provisions, the
    intent in the provisions of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
    And to that point, we are looking at opportunities when we go
    into project selections to really look at several factors in
    addition to meeting the intent of the legislation itself.
        To your question and point, for instance, around watersheds
    and watershed health and the critical nature of them, when it
    comes to, for instance, Legacy Roads and Trails Program, we are
    looking at criteria such as: Do projects that we receive meet
    the intent of NEPA? Are they compliant? Are they aligned, and
    are they in critical watersheds that are important to our
    nature? Do they help us actually connect upstream habitat for
    wildlife from a reconnection perspective? Do they address some
    of the challenges we have when it comes to small culverts in
    place that have caused us degradation problems?
        There will be a number of those kinds of criteria that we
    will establish to make sure that we are receiving the kind of
    outcomes that we want to on the landscape as well as outputs.
    In respect to your question about tracking, we are working
    closely internally to not only look at how we might allocate
    these funds in the right place but also having the appropriate
    mechanisms in place to really track and be transparent around
    these funds for the American public.
        Mr. Tonko. And then how will these investments help build
    the reforestation pipeline, including efforts to address
    reforestation needs in Eastern forests and urban areas with
    poor tree equity?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for the question again, Congressman.
    With respect to reforestation, the REPLANT Act provision in
    legislation really provides us an opportunity from a resource
    standpoint to do a number of things. One, our agency has
    developed a strategy to really address the backlog that we are
    experiencing with reforestation. And in that light, we are
    looking at being able to treat up to a half a million acres a
    year with 200,000 of that being reforestation of planting.
    Alongside of that, as a part of our strategy, we were really
    looking at how we can grow capacity within our nurseries
    themselves to have more stock available for reforestation. And
    lastly, to actually increase our capacity, we are also looking
    at the opportunity to partner and collaborate more closely with
    states and tribal governments.
        Mr. Tonko. And lastly, Mr. Ferebee, the Forest Service has
    many existing science-based tools such as the Watershed
    Condition Framework to help identify restoration needs. Beyond
    the wildfire funding, how is the Forest Service using these
    tools and other data to identify priority restoration needs
    utilizing BIL investments?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for your question, Congressman. To
    your point, we have a number of tools, such as the Watershed
    Condition Class Framework. We also have our National Cohesive
    Strategy. We have shared steward agreements. As I mentioned in
    my testimony, we also have tools like Good Neighbor Authority.
    And the Agency is looking at using every tool that we have made
    available to us by Congress to really show up in this space, to
    really change the trajectory of wildfire and at the same time,
    to make sure that the work that we do is sound, ecologically.
        Mr. Tonko. Thank you so much. With that, Mr. Chair, I yield
    back and thank you for your courtesy.
        Mr. Neguse. The gentleman yields back.
        The Chair now recognizes Ranking Member Herrell for 5
    minutes.
        Ms. Herrell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for the
    testimony. I have a question for Ms. Hall-Rivera. The BIL
    authorized a new categorical exclusion for fuel breaks and
    included a new authority for emergency actions, which would
    allow for fire prevention work to go forward more quickly. So,
    my question is, why did the 10-year strategy that you published
    in January include no references to how these authorities will
    be implemented?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Thank you for that question,
    Congresswoman. We deeply appreciate the new tools that are
    provided to us in the BIL. And I would say, frankly, it was
    probably just a bit of a timing issue. We were in development
    with the strategy during the time frame that the Infrastructure
    Law was being considered because we knew that we needed to be
    prepared for this crisis either way. We need a plan.
        But I will say these tools are important to us, and we are
    already using them. In fact, I was made aware yesterday there
    are five projects that are already using this new fuel break
    CE. So, it's a tool in our toolbox, and we are using it.
        Ms. Herrell. Great. Thank you. And the BIL authorized the
    establishment of a commission to study and provide
    recommendations to Congress focused on wildland fire
    management, including issues related to aerial wildland
    firefighting equipment. USDA, DOI, and the Department of
    Homeland Security's Federal Emergency Management Agency
    announced that the establishment of the Commission would be
    December 2021.
        But my question to you is--when can we expect the members
    to be appointed to this Commission, and how will this
    Commission differ from existing agencies such as the Wildland
    Fire Leadership Council or the White House Wildland or Wildfire
    Resilience Interagency Working Group? How will it differ?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Sure. I will try to answer that as best I
    can. The nomination process for the Commission closed last
    Friday. And I understand we had a very large amount of
    interest, over 500 applications. So, we, Interior, FEMA, are in
    the process now of evaluating those. I would expect us to have
    a list of members--there are a number of categories in the BIL
    that you are probably aware of that make up the Commission, so
    I would think maybe in about a month or two that we would be
    able to name that and then have the Commission get started.
        And you rightly point out we have many other inter-agency
    groups that work in this space. Wildland Fire and Forest
    Restoration is a complex, inter-jurisdictional, multi-
    governmental issue. So, at least I think, from our perspective,
    the more voices that we can get to weigh in on this, the
    better. And what the Commission does that's a little different
    than the other ones that you named is that it's really broad,
    and there are a number of non-Federal entities that will be a
    part of it that are not present on the other commissions, even
    on WFLC, which does have non-Federal membership. So, like I
    said, more voices--more and more people and more and more
    citizens are being impacted by this problem. And I think that
    the nature of the make-up of the Commission recognizes that.
        Ms. Herrell. OK. And last, we have heard that the Forest
    Service's use of an existing categorical exclusion for removing
    hazard trees along roads after wildfires has been challenged in
    court.
        So, my question is, are you safely able to re-open roads in
    places like Oregon or California, or does Congress need to
    clarify that you have the authority to do so? We just want to
    make sure that with the tools, you have the authority to do
    some of these.
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Thank you for that question,
    Congresswoman. I know we are implementing numerous hazard tree
    projects throughout the West, and we are using a fair amount of
    the funding that came from the disaster supplemental to do
    that. And we are very appreciative of that. Certainly, we
    probably do have litigation on some of those projects. I don't
    have those details in front of me, but I would be happy to get
    back to you on that and work with you if we are seeing some
    spaces where we might need a little bit of clarification or
    assistance. So, thank you for that.
        Ms. Herrell. OK. And just a final question for all three.
    Have all of you been out and toured our national forests? Have
    you been to New Mexico, California, Oregon and seen the burn
    scars or the fire, what our forests look like in terms of the
    fuel on the ground? I live in the middle of the Lincoln
    National Forest. Have you been out there, boots on the ground,
    to see for yourselves what we are dealing with?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Yes, I certainly have and turn to my
    colleagues.
        Ms. Herrell. Sir?
        Mr. Rupert. Yes. We were actually out on a trip together
    just a week ago. I am looking at fuels reduction work and
    impacts. And I do want to, real briefly, apologize. I misspoke
    during my opening statement and am guilty of just reading and
    not thinking.
        Ms. Herrell. No apologies. I heard it, but it's no
    apologies. I will answer to anything, so you are fine.
        Mr. Ferebee. Yes. As well as my colleagues mentioned, I
    have had the fortunes or unfortunes to be able to go out and
    look at some of the great work that's going on but also some of
    the impacts from areas we have not been able to get to scale at
    this point to address the issue that we are here to talk about
    today.
        Ms. Herrell. Thank you. I yield back.
        Mr. Neguse. The gentlewoman yields back. I certainly would
    concur with the Ranking Member and encourage all of you and
    your staffs within the various departments to come to Colorado
    and to New Mexico, to the Western states, and see the burn
    scars for yourself. Clearly you all have but encourage your
    teams to do so as well. The Chair will now recognize for 5
    minutes the gentlewoman from New Mexico, Ms. Leger Fernandez.
        Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you very much, Chair Neguse. And
    thank you very much for holding this hearing and for having
    these witnesses testify about the important work that's being
    done. Wildfires have been a reality in New Mexico for
    centuries, for millennia. But we know that climate change and
    drought are making wildfires worse and we must address that. My
    brothers, friends, and neighbors are or have been wildland
    firefighters. Tribes and villages in my district send hotshot
    crews to battle these life-threatening blazes and have
    Indigenous ecological knowledge that the Infrastructure Bill is
    actually going to help fund to utilize that.
        And I really appreciate the partnerships that we are doing
    with the Intertribal Timber Council. Thank you for that. I
    think we need to remember that our local wildland fighters see
    their work as not just a job but as a way of protecting the
    watersheds that our communities depend on for our water, to
    quench our thirst and grow our crops and as noted, for us to be
    able to go out and enjoy that nature. So, I think we have to
    recognize how deep the commitment is that our wildland fighters
    have, and we must provide them with the support that we can.
        My vote in support of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law was
    a recognition of this huge need. It was a recognition that we
    had to invest in New Mexico and in this region in the reduction
    of hazardous fuels and community resilience, ecosystem
    restoration, and more. My community needs these resources, and
    I am glad that Congress responded.
        I also want to give a shout-out. In my district, we have
    New Mexico Forest and Watershed Restoration Institute at
    Highlands University, which is located in Las Vegas, New
    Mexico. We want to continue to rely on conducting that research
    and then putting it into the field. I recently visited the
    Carson National Forest where they are using the Collaborative
    Forest Restoration Program to work with the Cerro Negro
    Forestry Council, which hires local leneros and woodcutters to
    help thin certain areas.
        It is one of those instances where we are going to have a
    great symbiotic relationship between community-led forestry.
    Locals are getting in the business, shall we say, rather than
    bringing in big, hot crews from elsewhere, right? It is a way
    of developing local industry as well. Deputy Chief Hall-Rivera,
    as the Forest Service is rolling out these investments from the
    Infrastructure Law, how can we make sure we continue to
    incentivize using local resources and leveraging traditional
    practices?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Thank you very much for that question,
    Congresswoman. And I think there are a number of ways that we
    can look at that with this historic investment that we are
    going to be doing. And you have named a couple of them.
    Incorporating traditional ecological knowledge is going to be
    critical.
        And we are improving our acumen in that area. I am not
    going to say that we have always been perfect at that, but what
    we need to do is learn together with our tribal sovereign
    partners on how we can better incorporate their knowledge they
    have. They have been fire stewards for millennia in this
    country. So, we are working to be able to incorporate that into
    our project plans, into our fire plans, to learn from one
    another as we co-develop these projects. And a great
    opportunity that BIL gives us is that it names a dollar amount
    that we can use for the Tribal Forest Protection Act, which is
    really not something that's happened before. That's a tool that
    we have had, but having funding associated with it makes it a
    higher level of focus for us and ability for us to get those
    funds and use those projects where we work together with tribes
    where National Forest System lands and tribal lands are near
    one another, and we can co-prioritize those projects. So, those
    are a couple places I would name.
        But we are working through roundtables to listen to and
    work with all kinds of stakeholders at the state and local
    level in every region of the country, and those are ongoing
    now.
        Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you very much. And I would also
    point out that you have that $200 million that's available to
    enter into contracts or employ labor crews. I really want to
    emphasize the importance of trying to do it locally. Mr.
    Ferebee, we only have a little bit of time left, but do you
    want to add anything to that?
        Mr. Rupert. I will say I appreciate your emphasis on tribes
    and tribal contributions. In recent weeks, we have engaged in
    tribal consultation around infrastructure and received lots of
    feedback from many tribes identifying the support needs that
    they have as we move forward with implementing BIL.
        Within the Department's existing programs, there are
    several programs focused on tribal support, Reserved Treaty
    Land Rights Program. We have a contract support program that we
    are also focusing on as we implement BIL, looking at really
    efficiently and effectively moving that support to tribes. And
    I am very much looking forward----
        Ms. Leger Fernandez. My time is up, so thank you very much.
    And, also, by looking at tribes, I want to also look at local
    communities like the Lenero Program. Thank you very much. I
    yield back.
        Mr. Neguse. The gentlewoman yields back. The Chair now
    recognizes the Ranking Member for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Westerman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member
    Herrell, for having this hearing. Thank you to the witnesses.
    Sometimes it might seem like we are negative about the
    agencies, but I have traveled across the country and the people
    that work out in the field that want to do the right thing--
    it's got to be more frustrating for them than it is to me to
    see how ineffective we are at managing our Federal lands. At
    the end of this week, we are having the Western Caucus visit my
    home of Hot Springs, Arkansas. And I am excited to take them
    out on the Ouchita National Forest and show them how forest
    management is actually happening on the national forests and
    how resilient those forests can be.
        Looking at management across the country, the vast amount
    of the management done and the expenditures happens in the
    Southeast and the North, definitely east of the hundredth
    meridian. The wildfires happen mostly west of the hundredth
    meridian. Can anybody explain to me why the management is
    vastly happening in the Southeast and North and the fires are
    mainly happening in the West?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Mr. Westerman, I will take a crack at that
    and then turn it over to my colleagues as well. I would say
    part of our aim with the Forest Service's 10-year strategy is
    to take the model that we have in the Southeast, which is
    managed forests, that are closer to their natural fire regime
    because they also have fires. The Southeast is a leader in
    prescribed fire. And we'd like to take that model and take it
    into the West and be able to have our forests----
        Mr. Westerman. Do they just burn in the South, or do they
    do mechanical thinning before they burn?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Yes, sir. They do both.
        Mr. Westerman. Is there a danger of doing prescribed fire
    without mechanical thinning first?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. I would say in most cases, especially in
    the West, we need to do mechanical treatment before we
    introduce fire.
        Mr. Westerman. How much mechanical treatment happens in the
    West?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. In the Forest Service, a little over a
    million acres a year in the West.
        Mr. Westerman. Of mechanical treatment?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Mm-hmm.
        Mr. Westerman. How much needs to happen?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Well, gosh, we think at least 20 million
    more acres over the next 10 years, and most of that is in the
    West.
        Mr. Westerman. And what's the biggest impediment to that?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Well, I think there are a lot of
    challenges. Funding, which the BIL helps us with, capacity,
    which we are building toward, not only capacity in the Forest
    Service but, as you know, finding----
        Mr. Westerman. What about outside litigants? Does that stop
    any of it?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. We do have challenges with litigation.
    Yes, sir.
        Mr. Westerman. And you can't fix that. Only Congress can
    fix that?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. We are always happy to work with you,
    Congressman, any tools.
        Mr. Westerman. We need to fix that, and we haven't. So, I
    will just go down the panel. The wildfire crisis, is it caused
    mostly by lack of management or by climate change, Mr. Ferebee?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for the question, Congressman. I
    would say that we have acknowledged that there are a number of
    factors, those two being a part of it.
        Mr. Westerman. Which one is the greatest?
        Mr. Ferebee. I am not sure if we as the agency decided
    which one is the greater. We just acknowledged that there are a
    number of factors that affect our ability and how we are
    showing up currently.
        Mr. Westerman. Ms. Hall-Rivera?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Yes. I would concur with that. They are
    all interwoven. They are not mutually exclusive.
        Mr. Westerman. Mr. Rupert?
        Mr. Rupert. I agree. Several factors I think as Interior is
    clearly identifying that climate change is the leading impact
    with the intensity----
        Mr. Westerman. The actions tend to show that we believe it
    is more climate change. So, doesn't that logically make the
    reason that instead of spending money on the agencies, we
    should take all the money we are putting out there to the
    agencies and invest that in something to mitigate climate
    change since the management side is not really happening?
    Aren't you making an argument to dissolve your very agencies
    and spend that taxpayer money somewhere else?
        Mr. Rupert. No, I don't think so. In fact, I see our
    initial work to implement with BIL, it really is that important
    step. We have been talking about the need to increase support
    and increase capacity on the ground.
        Mr. Westerman. If we come back in a year or 2 years, and
    there are not any results to show for the money that's being
    spent, does that not make the argument to the American public
    that it is an ineffective expenditure of their tax dollars? It
    is not accomplishing or addressing the real problem?
        Mr. Rupert. I think you will see increased activity on the
    ground and accomplishments on the ground in Year 1 and Year 2.
    And I think Year 3 and beyond is where you will start to see
    the real transformative change.
        Mr. Westerman. I know part of the plan that was put out
    projected Year 6 through 10, but we definitely need to see some
    progress like last year. We are way behind the eight ball. So,
    my hope would be that we see dramatic improvements and a
    dramatic amount of acreage that is being treated and not just
    all in the Southeast. If you look at the numbers in the West,
    where most of the fires are happening, it's almost laughable to
    think that we are claiming a small amount of treatments, and
    then the treatments aren't really happening where the fires
    are. I am out of time, and I yield back.
        Mr. Neguse. The gentleman yields back.
        The Chair now recognizes the Chair of the Full Committee,
    Mr. Grijalva, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Grijalva. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. Mr.
    Rupert, just a general question, as you were giving your
    testimony about how important cross-agency, cross-
    jurisdictional cooperation and joint planning are going to be
    in the mission, one of the areas in which I don't think there
    is a lot of discussion, or needs to be some discussion, has to
    deal with the jurisdiction prerogatives that exist, cities and
    towns and counties to basically do their own land use plan. And
    high-growth regions also happen to be high drought and wildfire
    impacted regions. I know that's the case made in Arizona and
    other parts of the country.
        So, my question is, how do you see bridging that, beginning
    with the question about people dealing with the same
    information because the relationship between the watershed
    protection, restoration, and the interface, I don't know that
    that's always a factor. And coming from, as a former county
    supervisor, it wasn't in the range.
        Mr. Rupert. I will just start with the, as you described,
    the importance of local community engagement. I think, in even
    thinking about the Southeast and what is different in the
    Southeast than perhaps some other parts of the country, that
    focused work that's going on in the Southeast also includes
    very active collaborative local level engagement.
        That's a fundamentally important part of what happens there
    to allow everything else. And I think as we talk about tensions
    and conflicts around land use planning and about risk reduction
    activities, in my mind, perhaps one of the most important steps
    we can take, if not the most important, is to have local
    community members, local unit managers, Federal, state, tribal,
    all those other stakeholders in the same room at the same table
    talking about shared values and coming up with collaborative
    risk reduction strategies. I think that is the key.
        Mr. Grijalva. Yes, and I think particularly in the Forest
    Service that strengthening that role of having the Forest
    Service play the necessary role of the honest arbitrator in
    those kind of discussions is critical, and how you build
    capacity in order to be able to do that as opposed to just
    getting kind of carried along with the winds because your
    comment is required in that process. And, at least my
    experience, sometimes yes, sometimes no, depending. The
    participation by the Forest Service and by public land agencies
    was--the consistency wasn't there, on the science and the
    impact and everything.
        So, it's just not even a suggestion--I think it becomes
    more and more critical for the agency to play that honest
    arbitrator in those land use kind of discussions that happen at
    the local level. With that, I yield back. Thank you.
        Mr. Neguse. The Chairman yields back.
        The Chair now recognizes Mr. Tiffany for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for the
    time. Mr. Rupert, you used the term ``collaborative.'' Aren't
    Federal agencies supposed to coordinate with local units of
    government?
        Mr. Rupert. Yes, absolutely. And I think, from my
    perspective, that is one of the exciting aspects of
    infrastructure, is it provides the support for us to have more
    capacity in that direction and also to develop those
    relationships to provide the community support for that to
    happen.
        Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Chairman, I would just say to you that
    this is a very important distinction in terms of collaborate
    versus coordinate. They mean two very different things. And I
    think the agency people know that. ``Coordinate'' is treating
    people as equals at the table, local, state officials that they
    be treated as equals when you are making that decision, rather
    than where it is the all-knowing people up here in the Federal
    Government that are dictating to local units of government.
    That is a great frustration local and state officials have.
        Mr. Rupert, you emphasize climate change in your testimony,
    I believe, and then also in your questioning with
    Representative Westerman. So, with us being told that it is
    going to be decades in the future that this is going to
    continue, why would we spend all kinds of money on this if it
    is not going to do anything to fix the problem or fix the,
    quote/unquote, problem?
        Mr. Rupert. Well, clearly the vision and the strategy is to
    make progress and to start on that progress, and the very real
    experience that we see in Interior wildland fire programs
    across the land. And, I mean, those effects and that
    consequence are very real, this trajectory that we are on with
    impacts, catastrophic intense wildfire. And we have that----
        Mr. Tiffany. And you know that that's due to climate
    change?
        Mr. Rupert. I know that the impacts on the ground that we
    are experiencing are very real.
        Mr. Tiffany. Let me enter into the record here, if I may.
    Here is the Forest Service timber-harvested data from the early
    1900s to 2014, very easy to see the peak that we had back in
    about 1990. If I may enter that--thank you very much, Mr.
    Chairman.

        [The information follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Tiffany. What if it says a result of lack of
    harvest, the lack of management, the point our Ranking Member
    has been making consistently that it is a lack of management
    that is causing this problem more than anything else. I think
    this is a terrific document that we should all look at very
    closely because maybe that is where our problem is. I would
    just also add living near Lake Superior, we were told--and I
    see extensive weather data due to a job I had previously coming
    to here. And from 2004 to 2011, Lake Superior was at a very low
    level, historic low levels, and we were told it was climate
    change. Well, Lake Superior now is back at historic high levels
    as a result of the extreme precipitation or high precipitation
    we have had in the last 10 years. And we are being told it is
    climate change that is causing that. And for a lot of people,
    you just go, ``Is there anything that climate change can't
    do?''
        Ms. Hall-Rivera, I think you used the term ``historic
    investment'' in your testimony. I think you said significant
    down payment. So, you are going to come back looking for more
    money? Is that right?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Congressman, thank you for that question.
    I think we have to be realistic about what this problem is
    costing us as a nation. And you made an important point. We
    have to do increased management, and we need to use all the
    tools for doing that, and that includes timber harvest and that
    includes hazardous fuels treatment. And these are not
    inexpensive endeavors. It is expensive to treat fuels, it is
    expensive to do that work.
        Mr. Tiffany. How many jobs have we lost since 1988 as a
    result of the lack of harvest on the national forests?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Well, I don't have that figure in front of
    me, Congressman, but I can tell you that we have shifted
    probably--we lost 40 percent of our non-fire workforce in the
    Forest Service. So, we are having that challenge just within
    the Forest Service. We have lost a lot of our capacity and our
    expertise in timber harvests.
        Mr. Tiffany. When are we going to reach the ASQ?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Well, I know we do meet allowable sale
    quantities on some of our forests, but we don't meet it on all
    of them. So, we have more work to do.
        Mr. Tiffany. How are we going to accomplish this without
    litigation reform?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Well, we are appreciative of the reforms
    that we have received, including the fuel break CE that we
    talked about earlier. And we are open to working with all of
    you on additional tools that can help us increase our fuels
    treatment.
        Mr. Tiffany. I appreciate your answers. Mr. Chairman, I
    just submit to you we have a huge litigation problem here. I
    understand that there are multi-million-dollar organizations
    across the country that do nothing but file lawsuits. And they
    have created a real problem. And a lot of that problem you see
    right in this chart that we entered into the record. But I
    think we should also look at the number of jobs that we have
    lost, the number of businesses that we have lost in America,
    especially in the West, as a result of shutting down harvests
    on our national forests.
        We will not correct the problem that we have here without
    having active management and getting litigation reform. If we
    don't reform NEPA, it is not going to happen. We will be here
    10 years from now talking about the same thing. Thank you so
    much for attending today, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Neguse. The gentleman yields back.
        The Chair will now recognize himself for 5 minutes of
    questions.
        First, let me say to my colleagues on both sides of the
    aisle that attended today's hearing, I very much appreciate it.
    Clearly, there is a strong interest from Members regarding
    these issues to Mr. Tiffany to Ms. Herrell and to Mr. Westerman
    as well as to my Democratic colleagues. I would say thank you
    for participating in today's hearing. I would be remiss if I
    didn't note that for the better part of the last 2 years since
    I obtained the gavel, chaired this Subcommittee, I have heard
    quite a few of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle
    talk about the need for forest management and hearings on
    forest management.
        And lo and behold, we have a hearing on this important
    topic. Unfortunately, many of them chose not to attend. But I
    credit those who did participate, and I appreciate their
    questioning of the witnesses today. I would like to just take a
    step back and kind of reframe where we are because I think some
    of this has kind of gotten lost during the course of today's
    hearing.
        My objective is to follow the science. The science tells us
    that we need to do more when it comes to forest management.
    That is an argument that colleagues of mine on both sides of
    the aisle have made. The science also tells us that the root
    causes in terms of the intensity, the severity, the
    pervasiveness, the frequency of these natural disasters that
    have befallen much of our country and, in particular, the Rocky
    Mountain West with respect to wildfires and floods is caused by
    climate change.
        So, we ought to take steps to do what we can to mitigate
    and fight against the climate crisis. Those are not mutually
    exclusive. I am not really--I guess I am unclear as to why they
    are being framed as some sort of binary choice. We can and we
    must do both. And that is precisely why we are gathered here
    today for this important hearing, and in particular today, we
    are talking about the former because as our witnesses have
    expounded about in great detail today, because of the
    Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, we have a unique generational
    opportunity to invest in forest management in a way that we
    haven't in some time.
        This bill ultimately allocates $28 billion which the
    departments have now announced they will utilize by treating
    upwards of 50 million acres, 20 million acres with respect to,
    that is within the jurisdiction of the Federal Government and
    then through a variety of different grant programs enabling the
    treatment of 30 million acres on private and tribal land in
    coordination, as Mr. Tiffany noted.
        That should be applauded. That is something that is a
    unique achievement of the Biden administration. And I just,
    again, have to say that for my friends on the other side of the
    aisle who continually kind of pound the table about the need to
    take these steps and then vote against the same measures that
    propose to take those steps, it can be a bit confusing to me.
    But, nonetheless, I am grateful that the Department is taking
    the steps that they have announced in states ranging from
    Colorado to Idaho to Utah to Nevada to Wyoming to New Mexico,
    irrespective of how the Members of Congress who represent those
    states voted on the ultimate law and the funding that you all
    now will be implementing.
        So, I thank you for your service, and I certainly thank
    your respective teams back at headquarters and in states across
    our country who are doing incredibly important work. I have one
    question. And it relates to the private land and the grant
    programs that will be set up under this particular piece of
    legislation. And I'm interested in hearing a bit more about how
    you anticipate the Community Wildfire Defense Grants being
    deployed within our communities.
        This money has to get to our communities. In my view, it
    should have gotten to our communities long ago. And as I said,
    I come from a district and a state that has been besieged by
    wildfires as of late. And I guess I would like to get some
    clarity and some representations from you all that you have the
    resources that you need from a staffing perspective to deploy
    these dollars as quickly as possible to communities in the
    Rocky Mountain West and, of course, across the country that are
    in desperate need of those resources. And I'm happy to let any
    of the witnesses respond.
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Thank you, Chairman. I will start. Yes,
    the Community Wildfire Defense Grant Program, a billion dollars
    between both provisions is an absolutely historic investment in
    community wildfire protection plans and the projects that are
    named within them. And we have a spotlight on getting this
    grant program up and running.
        We are working--the Department of the Interior, Forest
    Service, and the National Association of State Foresters--hand-
    in-hand to develop the guidelines and get the program out. We
    anticipate those guidelines being ready by May. We hope to have
    the funding opportunity announced in June and get some of the
    first grants out by September. So, less than a year to put
    together a brand-new program at that level I think is really,
    really important.
        The other thing that we are doing is we are contemplating
    what I would call kind of a base capacity level funding for
    each state so that they do have their resources to be able to
    carry out the program. So, I turn to my colleague, Mr. Rupert,
    to add anything.
        Mr. Rupert. Well, I will just add that Interior very much
    appreciates the work of the Forest Service. That Community
    Defense Grant support is directed at the Forest Service, and we
    appreciate the collaboration and the leadership that they are
    providing for that work, including us as well. Thank you.
        Mr. Neguse. Thank you both, and I will just simply say we
    look forward to working with you and seeing the fruits of your
    labor materialize here, certainly in my communities and
    communities across the country. And not to belabor the point,
    but I do think Mr. Tiffany raises a good point that these
    programs have to be in coordination with our local communities.
    So, I suspect that that's of heavy emphasis for each of your
    agencies. But it is something to keep in mind. With that, the
    Chair will now recognize Mr. Gallego from Arizona for 5
    minutes.
        Mr. Gallego. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning to each of
    our witnesses for your time today. As you all know, wildfire is
    an issue that is always top of mind in Arizona. In the first 3
    months of 2022, there have already been around 90 fires in the
    state. Dry conditions indicate that the 2022 fire season will
    start earlier than normal. Large parts of the state face
    abnormally dry drought conditions and fine fuels are
    anticipated to be above average.
        Through all these issues, it is vital that we be prepared
    to manage fires and increase resilience. I am hopeful that
    funding from the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law will help make
    that happen. My first question is for Deputy Chief Hall-Rivera.
    Bipartisan Infrastructure Law directed $20 million to the
    Southwest Ecological Restoration Institute to create and
    maintain a national fuel treatment database and to publish a
    report every 5 years. What is the Forest Service's strategy for
    ensuring that data is entered consistently and reflects
    Congress' investments in our Federal lands?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Thank you, Congressman, for that question.
    We actually just had a meeting with the Institutes last week
    and are excited to get into this partnership together. Of
    course, we work very closely with the SWERIs already, but this
    is an added investment and a focus on something that the New
    Mexico University piloted and that now we are going to be able
    to expand to the rest of the country.
        So, we are going to be working with them very closely,
    primarily our research branch. And they will be co-developing
    how we are going to expand that project. And then we will work
    together with our regions to ensure that we have the right kind
    of data and the data standards to ensure that that can be
    successful across the country.
        Mr. Gallego. Thank you. My next question is for Mr.
    Ferebee. The Department of the Interior's wildfire spend plan
    identified several different criteria to inform fuels work and
    prioritize BIL funding, including the retention of large trees
    and fire-resilient stands and limits on permanent and temporary
    road construction. How will USFS projects ensure the protection
    and conservation of wilderness and roadless areas?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for the question, Congressman. As
    stated in our strategy, our strategy focuses on community
    exposure. So, we are in that footprint in close proximity to
    those areas, which is what we consider our managed lands, which
    is not in our roadless areas and our wilderness areas.
        So, by the way our strategies are aligned and how we are
    looking to focus, we are not looking to focus in those areas
    when it comes to mitigation of exposure to our communities. In
    addition to that, what I would say is our intent is to meet the
    provisions in the intent of all the provisions in this
    legislation. And all of our projects are designed with an
    ecological frame in mind while they may also be trying to
    achieve other outcomes and so very much committed to meeting
    the intent of other laws like the Wilderness Act and our
    requirements when it comes to managing roadless areas.
        Mr. Gallego. Thank you. My final question can be answered
    by either Forest Service witness. With $4.5 billion of the
    Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act directed toward wildfire
    and forest provisions, significantly new funding and important
    programs are expected to be implemented by the Forest Service.
        Does the Forest Service have adequate staff capacity to
    fulfill the new dollars they will be responsible with
    implementing, and how does the Forest Service plan to address
    staffing capacities with new hiring? Thank you.
        Mr. Ferebee. As a part of our strategy, we are working with
    our field to really identify what we think are the skillsets
    that are needed in order to deliver on this work. What I would
    also like to highlight, though, is as we talked about in this
    community already, this is an all-lands issue.
        So, while we are the agency working on our capacity needs,
    we are also having conversations with our Federal partners, our
    state partners, tribes, and NGOs in this same space because if
    we are going to address this issue and address it at scale from
    an all-lands perspective, it is going to require all of us to
    have the capacity that we need and to the degree that we don't
    have it, working closely together in kind of a collaborative
    form really helps us leverage our collective resources as well.
        The Agency has very much developed a strategy to look at
    hiring our needs but, at the same time, looking at how we show
    up with the rest of our partners in this all-lands issue.
        Mr. Gallego. Ms. Rivera? Ms. Rivera, do you have anything
    to add?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. I don't have anything to add, sir.
        Mr. Gallego. I yield back.
        Mr. Neguse. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now
    recognizes the gentleman from Utah, Mr. Moore.
        Mr. Moore. Thank you, Chair, Ranking Member. And thank you
    all for joining us today. We are rapidly approaching another
    wildfire season. Like last year, and the year before, and the
    year before, we have done little to nothing to fundamentally
    improve the way we manage our lands to prevent catastrophic
    wildfires. One key fundamental point, Utahans feel this every
    day in the summer as we inhale smoke from California and
    Oregon. That is at the root of what I am really trying to do
    here. I am trying to improve this.
        I introduced the FIRESHEDS Act and co-sponsored Ranking
    Member Westerman's Resilient Federal Forests Act to
    fundamentally improve the way our lands are managed. We can
    prevent these out-of-control fires that threaten our
    communities. We can prevent them.
        For Mr. Rupert--Why do you think it is important to enhance
    shared stewardship agreements, adopt fireshed research and
    mapping, and extend the Good Neighbor Authority in our fight
    against fire?
        Mr. Rupert. Well, there has been reference to tools in the
    toolbox over the course of the day and, certainly, Good
    Neighbor Authority, shared stewardship and, yes, improved data
    standards and using technology to inform decision making pre-
    fire, during fire, post-fire. All of those are important tools
    to ultimately changing the trajectory that we are on and
    reducing risk of wildfire to local communities. Those were all
    parts and pieces.
        Mr. Moore. Yes. And our fundamental argument with the
    FIRESHEDS Act is that Utah has experienced some success here.
    Like, let's take what we do here and let's share this with
    other states. These shared stewardship agreements, they are
    designed to reduce the amount of bureaucracy to just work
    together, and each state can work with their Federal agencies.
        Ms. Hall-Rivera, can you describe for us what actions
    private forest owners take to protect their lands against
    catastrophic wildfire?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Yes. Thank you for that question,
    Congressman. Many private forest landowners do treatment on
    their landscapes and around their homes to help protect against
    fire. And we have programs in the Forest Service and the
    Department of the Interior that help support that, working
    through our state foresters. But we also know that not every
    landowner has access to those programs. Our underserved
    communities may not be aware of those programs or may not have
    the capacity to, say, do grant-writing. So, we are working
    together with the National Association of State Foresters and
    many of our other partners to ensure that private landowners
    know about these programs, they have access to Service
    foresters who can help them do plans for their forests and to
    ensure that we can distribute funding like through the
    Community Wildfire Defense Grant Program more broadly.
        Mr. Moore. Thank you. I will just point out that there are
    a lot of tools at private owners' disposal. And the NEPA
    regulations that we do sometimes make it impossible for them to
    do something good and to get past this. This is an argument
    that we make. We must take a close look at how we can improve
    NEPA so that it doesn't discourage the kind of management
    behaviors that our Federal lands desperately need.
        Mr. Ferebee, as I understand it, the Forest Service has
    been contributing to help fund wildfire corridor projects in
    coordination with the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation. As
    you look to expand this engagement, what efforts, if any, are
    currently underway to integrate big-game wildlife corridors in
    National Forest Systems projects?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for the question, Congressman. As a
    part of our strategy, we acknowledge there are a number of
    values that are important to us to achieve with our work. While
    we are looking at mitigating exposure to communities, things
    like improving habitat for wildlife species, protecting big-
    game corridors, helping with recovery of T&E species,
    protecting critical watersheds, all of those are values that we
    are also looking to achieve as a result of our work.
        Mr. Moore. Thank you. Sir, I have never officially asked
    three different people three questions within my 5-minute
    timeline, so this is a monumental day for me, and I want to
    thank you all for being a part of this. The point that I wanted
    to----
        Mr. Neguse. It is not likely to happen again.
        Mr. Moore. The point that I want to just reiterate is there
    is a lot of good going on. And I asked people--Utah, and as I
    have stepped into this role, I have seen so much good
    collaboration taking place in Utah from conservation to
    wildlife protection across the board. We want to limit
    emissions and toxins being put into our atmosphere, into our
    air.
        And it is all the work that we are doing on our wildfire
    work. And we have had great results. We are not perfect, but we
    have had great results that I know other states can
    incorporate. I encourage the Majority to take a really sincere
    look at the FIRESHEDS Act to look at what the true cause of
    this is, and we can get out ahead of this if we were to take an
    objective and not political look at it. Thank you very much. I
    yield back.
        Mr. Neguse. The gentleman yields back.
        The Chair will now recognize for 5 minutes Ms. Porter from
    California if she is on.
        Ms. Porter. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Ms. Hall-
    Rivera, you have testified in this Committee previously about
    the challenges with wildland firefighter hiring. How many
    firefighters does the Forest Service need to hire so you have
    no idle engines, you have fully staffed hotshot crews, and so
    on? What is the full staff number?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Thank you for that question,
    Congresswoman. Our goal this year in the Forest Service is
    11,300 firefighters. And that is an increase----
        Ms. Porter. What do you have right now?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Well, I can't tell you the exact number we
    have right now, Congresswoman. I can get back to you on that.
    We are still bringing people on. Of course, it is the time of
    year where our temporary and even our permanent seasonal
    firefighters are onboarding. And we just completed an
    additional fire hire event in California at the end of March,
    and those numbers are still coming in.
        Ms. Porter. And how did that fire hire event go? Do you
    think you are on pace to have the number to be fully staffed in
    California? Do you think you are on pace for that based on the
    hiring event?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Congresswoman, yes. I do think we are on
    pace. And by all accounts, that hiring event went very well.
    And, importantly, what we are seeing is a very high acceptance
    rate in our permanent and seasonally permanent firefighting
    positions, which is what we want. We want to be able to convert
    this workforce to have more or a larger proportion of it be
    permanent and a smaller proportion of it be temporary.
        We are in the same boat as a lot of sectors in this country
    where hiring is difficult and labor is short. But by all
    accounts, these events are going well, and we think that we
    will be at the capacity that we need in the Forest Service this
    year.
        Ms. Porter. That is really great to hear because, as you
    know, last year, according to the National Federation of
    Federal Employees, about 30 percent of the Federal hotshot
    crews that worked on the front lines of wildfires in California
    were understaffed. Last year, the Forest Service had 60 fire
    engines in California alone that were idle because of
    understaffing. So, I am very heartened to hear a concrete
    number or concrete goal for what full staffing looks like, the
    fact that, in general, recognizing that everybody faces labor
    challenges, and in general, you feel like hiring is going well.
    And I am hoping to see that a year from now in the outcome. And
    I am hoping to have a number of idle engines and the number of
    partially staffed, unstaffed crews go down. If you don't hit
    that target--I really appreciate, again, you giving that
    number. Where do you get the people power when you don't have
    enough firefighters? What happens when you don't have enough
    Federal firefighters?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Well, as we have talked about,
    Congresswoman, fire is an all-lands challenge. And we take an
    all-lands approach or a multi-jurisdictional approach to fire
    suppression as well. And we always have done that in this
    country. We are able to flux our numbers of firefighters across
    the country. The couple of different ways that we do that are:
    One, contractors. Department of the Interior and the Forest
    Service, we both employ contractors, and we can staff up using
    that mechanism.
        We also, in both of our agencies, have employees who are
    not full-time firefighters that do have fire qualifications.
    They have what is called a red card. And we can bring them on
    during high periods of fire activity. We also have an authority
    called ``administratively determined,'' which allows us to
    bring on others. They tend to be people who are retired or
    otherwise no longer engaged in the firefighting. But they are
    red-carded, and we are allowed to bring them on. So, we can
    surge. We had upwards of, what, 29,000 firefighters on the
    landscape last year during our highest levels of activity.
        Ms. Porter. Do you ever have to hire local fire departments
    or CAL FIRE, and how much did you spend at Forest Service last
    year on borrowing resources from local or state fire
    departments?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. We have agreements with state and local
    firefighters all over the country. We have a particularly
    robust agreement with California. It is called the California
    Fire Assistance Agreement. And Interior is part of that as
    well. And we are able to activate local and volunteer fire
    departments through that agreement, and it is reciprocal. They
    go on our fires. We go on their fires. It is a really great
    example of intergovernmental cooperation in the fire space.
        Ms. Porter. Just reclaiming my time, Ms. Hall-Rivera, would
    you be able to later provide the cost of those reciprocal
    agreements? I know they are complicated, but if you could
    provide a cost number to the Committee. Is that something you
    would be able to do later?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Yes, Congresswoman. We would be happy to
    do that.
        Ms. Porter. And Mr. Rupert, could you do the same thing,
    please, for the Department of the Interior?
        Mr. Rupert. Yes, ma'am.
        Ms. Porter. Thank you. I really appreciate it. My last
    question was just to ask Mr. Ferebee. Could you just say
    briefly, particularly for Southern California, what you think
    the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill is going to be doing to
    benefit our community?
        Mr. Ferebee. Yes. Thank you for the question,
    Congresswoman. Our strategy is really looking at critical
    firesheds that are based on a lot of fire history as well as
    ignition sources and vegetative communities. And the intent of
    that is really to mitigate exposure to communities like those
    in Southern California.
        So, we want to place an effort and emphasis in those
    firesheds working very closely with counties, states, and
    tribal governments as well as a number of other partners in the
    community to determine where we should be treating within those
    firesheds to make a difference.
        Ms. Porter. Thank you very much. I yield back.
        Mr. Neguse. The gentlelady yields back.
        The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr.
    McClintock, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. McClintock. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Ferebee, the
    Forest Service used to have what was called the 10 a.m. rule.
    It was basically an informal policy that any fire spotted would
    be put out by 10 o'clock the next morning.
        We had the Tamarack Fire last year in Alpine County. A
    lightning bolt struck a tree. That tree smoldered on about a
    quarter of an acre for about 10 days. Every day, the Forest
    Service had helicopters flying over to take pictures for
    Facebook but never bothered to drop a bucket of water or put
    the damn thing out. On the 10th day, it exploded, took out
    70,000 acres, devastating the local community, which depends
    upon tourism, cost a number of families their homes. What in
    the world were you people thinking?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for the question, Mr. McClintock.
    And I will allow my colleague, Ms. Rivera, to address that.
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Yes, I would be happy to talk about that.
    Thank you, Congressman, for that question. The Tamarack Fire is
    one of those challenges that we have when we have hundreds of
    large fires on the landscape, and we are at preparedness
    levels----
        Mr. McClintock. Wait a second. Wait a second, though. This
    was a fire that could have been put out with one aerial drop
    and maybe a ground crew. Instead, you allowed it to explode to
    70,000 acres that cost us millions and millions of dollars to
    combat and did enormous damage not only to the forest but the
    surrounding communities. Why aren't we getting on top of these
    fires when they first break out, when we can easily put them
    out, rather than waiting for them to explode? And this is not
    the first time this has happened. This happened over and over
    again. This happened on Park Service land as well. We had the
    Reading Fire about a decade ago. Same thing. On the very same
    fire footprint as the Tamarack, we had the Woodfords Fire about
    30 years ago. Same thing exactly. Small fire breaks out. In
    that case, the local fire department came to put it out and
    were told to go away by the Forest Service.
        This is insane. Please tell me that you are dropping that
    policy and that you will be vigorously attacking fires on their
    initial discovery rather than waiting for them to become these
    massive conflagrations.
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Yes, Congressman. We put out 98 percent of
    fires on initial attack. And the Tamarack Fire is one of those
    2 percent that we were not able to do that because we were
    resource-limited, and----
        Mr. McClintock. But you knew about it. You deliberately sat
    on it. And, again, not the first time this has happened. This
    happened over and over again. That was the cause of the
    disastrous Yellowstone Fires in 1988 when the Reagan
    administration rescinded the let-burn policy, and then you put
    it back after the Reagan administration left.
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Well, let me assure you, Congressman, we
    do not have the let-burn policy in the Forest Service. We
    manage every fire. We monitor every fire.
        Mr. McClintock. Can you assure me that henceforth, upon
    discovery of a fire, you will order an aggressive initial
    attack?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Yes, Congressman. That is what we do.
        Mr. McClintock. All right. Thank you. Next question
    involves the management of our forests. We used to send
    foresters out every year to mark off surplus timber. We then
    auctioned that timber off for bid. We actually made money on
    those timber auctions. Logging companies paid us to come in to
    remove that excess timber and 25 percent of those revenues went
    to the local communities directly affected. The other 75
    percent went back to the Forest Service for forest management.
        We passed laws in the 1970s that made the thinning of our
    forests endlessly time-consuming and ultimately cost-
    prohibitive. The millions of dollars that it takes to do the
    environmental impact reports now costs more than the value of
    the timber. So, not a lot is getting done. We got a categorical
    exclusion from NEPA for the Tahoe Basin for projects up to
    10,000 acres. The Forest Service has been using that very, very
    effectively. I think that is what saved South Lake Tahoe from
    the Caldor Fire. When that fire hit the treated portion under
    that new authority, which was assigned in 2016, the fire lay
    down. They were able to extinguish it before it took out the
    city of South Lake Tahoe. Can't we do that throughout the
    Forest Service system? It is a proven success. Why don't we
    extend that throughout the Forest Service?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for the question, Congressman. And
    to your question, yes. We can do that across the National
    Forest System lands. We are using a number of category
    exclusions, if you will. And you----
        Mr. McClintock. What I have been told, this categorical
    exclusion takes the review process from 4 years down to less
    than 4 months. Takes the EIR from about 800 pages down to about
    20 pages and actually gets stuff done. Will the Forest Service
    support legislation to extend this provision across all Forest
    Service lands?
        Mr. Ferebee. The Agency is currently using them to the
    degree that we absolutely can. We would support working with
    you on any future legislation that enhances the tools that we
    have to really address the needs we have when it comes to
    managing the national forest.
        Mr. McClintock. Great. Thank you.
        Mr. Neguse. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
    will now recognize Ms. Tlaib from Michigan for 5 minutes.
        Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, Chair. Thank you all for the
    witnesses for today that are here. One of the things I want to
    talk about is how our agencies are implementing Justice40 in
    delivering benefits to disadvantaged communities, or what I
    call my frontline communities like the ones I represent,
    because I think many folks across our nation will wonder how
    wildlife management and ecosystem restoration impacts them.
        Mr. Rupert, I will start with you. How is the Department of
    the Interior incorporating Justice40 Initiative into
    consideration of certain projects using the infrastructure
    funding?
        Mr. Rupert. Yes, thank you. In Interior, up to this point,
    as we have begun to focus work on implementing infrastructure,
    we have taken it program by program, so many different
    provisions of infrastructure crossing multiple programs in
    Interior, looking at programs for opportunities to highlight
    and promote Justice40. And then as the Administration has been
    working at an all-of-government level to develop support and
    tools, and we will interact with those tools as they come
    online to provide that focused priorities for it.
        Ms. Tlaib. Thank you. Mr. Ferebee or Ms. Hall-Rivera, is
    the Forest Service also incorporating the Justice40 Initiative
    into their 10-Year Wildlife Plan in infrastructure
    implementation?
        Mr. Ferebee. Yes, we are. Today, we have identified cover
    programs within our organization. We have identified priorities
    that would benefit tribes, underserved communities, and
    disadvantaged communities as well and have developed indicators
    to help us track how we are progressing in that arena and, as
    well, develop implementation plan that will help modify how we
    currently show up so that we can serve those communities better
    as we would like.
        Ms. Tlaib. Well, one of my concerns about the
    Infrastructure Bill is that it did strip requirements out of
    the National Environmental Protection Act, NEPA, that will
    fast-track certain projects without full environmental reviews.
    Are you all aware of that?
        Mr. Ferebee. No. I am not--I am not sure, Congresswoman.
        Ms. Tlaib. Well, Mr. Ferebee, the Department of the
    Interior's wildlife spend plan identifies several different
    criterias to inform its work and prioritize infrastructure
    funding, the first of which is a completed National
    Environmental Policy, you know, NEPA compliance. How has NEPA
    worked to protect critical species habitat and conservation
    areas as well as prioritize project work? Just want to show my
    colleagues how important it is.
        Mr. Ferebee. So, the Forest Service has equal criteria, if
    you will, that we are using when it comes to implementing this
    work as it relates to our strategy. One is to ensure that we
    are compliant with NEPA. The other one is we meet the intent of
    the BIL itself. And third, we want to make sure that the work
    that we are looking to invest in aligns with the science that
    we have informing where we should be investing.
        Ms. Tlaib. I know NEPA is important even in frontline
    community like mine. They are building an international bridge
    crossing how NEPA can actually help mitigate some of the issues
    regarding air quality. And I don't know if this is for Mr.
    Ferebee or Ms. Hall-Rivera--But how many projects or acres have
    been completed under NEPA compliance that you are all aware of?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. I
    can't give you exact acres or the number of projects. What I
    can assure you is that all the projects that we implement at
    the ground level have met our NEPA compliance requirement.
        Ms. Tlaib. Yes. That is what I am afraid of is there are no
    exceptions. So, it is clear to me that our work didn't end with
    the Infrastructure Bill. To any of the witnesses, how would the
    investments in the House-passed Build Back Better Act allow
    your agencies to continue to address climate, wildlife, and
    community needs. Do you believe the investments beyond
    infrastructure might be necessary to achieve desired outcomes?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. We
    are very appreciative of the financial support and the
    provisions within the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. And as we
    have indicated, we acknowledge that given the level of
    treatment that is needed in the scale of the issue, we
    acknowledge that the BIL, in and of itself, is a great down
    payment toward achieving that work.
        Ms. Tlaib. Thank you, Chairman. I yield.
        Mr. Neguse. The gentlewoman yields back.
        The Chair now recognizes Mr. Rosendale from Montana for 5
    minutes.
        Mr. Rosendale. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I assure you that
    we in Montana are very concerned about forest management.
        Mr. Neguse. And we welcome you to the Committee.
        Mr. Rosendale. It impacts our air quality, our water
    quality, our economy, and just our way of life. So, it is
    critically important to us. Mr. Rupert and Ms. Hall-Rivera,
    could you tell me how many timber sales in the Montana area or
    the U.S. Forest Service Region 1 are currently stalled due to
    litigation?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. I will take that question, Congressman. I
    don't have that number, but I can ask our team to get that for
    you.
        Mr. Rosendale. And I am assuming that you wouldn't have the
    acreage that that would cover as well?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. No, I don't. But I know that we can easily
    get that information for you.
        Mr. Rosendale. OK. Well, you might be interested to know,
    it took me many months to get that, probably about 6 months to
    be exact. Finally, it was provided to me. In Montana, 27 timber
    sales are currently tied up, totaling 188 million board feet of
    timber. In Region 1, Montana and Idaho combined, that number
    jumps to 41 sales tied up or 438.35 million board feet of
    timber that is being tied up and not being brought to market,
    nor out of the forest to help keep our forests healthy.
        That is approximately 35,162 acres that are tied up in
    litigation in Region 1 completely stalling proper forest
    management. I am glad to see there was funding included in the
    Infrastructure Bill for forest management. But to be completely
    candid with you, that money is going to do squat if it can't be
    spent because all these projects are tied up with litigation. I
    have attended and gone into the field and visited Lubrecht
    Research Lab, which is a forest management operation, and have
    seen the difference between forest that is properly managed
    through mechanical treatment, through fire treatment, through
    both fire and mechanical treatment and forest that has not been
    touched at all.
        And not only does it make for very unhealthy conditions for
    the forests, and the trees themselves are unhealthy, but it
    creates an incredible fire hazard. And these are some of the
    things that are leading to the very fires that are out of
    control that my colleagues here have been talking about. What
    must I do to get the support of you folks sitting here today on
    forest management litigation reform such as the legislation
    that I introduced in H.R. 4579?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for the question, Congressman. While
    I am not aware exactly what your piece of legislation entails,
    we would be more than happy to work with you. The Agency is
    very interested in having all the tools possible for us to be
    able to address the active management need that we see on the
    landscape to mitigate or induce the kind of wildfires that we
    are experiencing.
        Mr. Rosendale. Again, we know what it requires, proper
    management. We have seen it demonstrated in the field. It is
    not rocket science. No offense. We just need it to be
    implemented. And the only way that we are going to be able to
    implement it is if we have proper litigation reform. And that
    is where I need your support.
        Does the Endangered Species Act have any impact on forest
    management?
        Mr. Ferebee. So, the Endangered Species Act is one of the
    many legal requirements that our agency is obligated to meet
    the intent of. And our agency is about the sustainability of
    all of our natural resources. That includes species that are
    covered under that Act.
        Mr. Rosendale. I understand that. But, again, does the
    Endangered Species Act negatively impact the proper management
    of our forests?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for the question, Congressman. I
    can't say that it negatively impacts. I would just say it is a
    condition of which we have to consider in the management of our
    activities when we are planning projects.
        Mr. Rosendale. So, the habitat that is located in a healthy
    forest, we certainly would be able to manage the wildlife
    population as well. If we have a forest that is not properly
    managed, we have fuels build up. We have a wildfire take place.
    It completely sterilizes the soil because it has burned so hot.
    It then creates problems with erosion, water quality problems,
    fisheries problems. Again, I will ask--Do you not think that
    that negatively impacts the habitat and the very species that
    we are trying to preserve?
        Mr. Ferebee. Thank you for the question, again,
    Congressman. The way that you described that lastly, I would
    say, yes, we have experienced a number of post-fire situations
    that is not conducive to resilient landscapes or habitat for
    wildlife.
        Mr. Rosendale. Mr. Chair, I see that my time has expired,
    so I would yield back.
        Mr. Neguse. The gentleman yields back.
        The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr.
    Gohmert, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Gohmert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for
    being here today. Last year, we sent a letter to the Forest
    Service asking about boat ramps on Lake Sam Rayburn in my
    district, which I am sure you are familiar with the history of
    the national forests, but local/state governments were assured
    that by providing land that could not be taxed and would not be
    used for commercial purposes that the U.S. Forest Service would
    share 25 percent of the proceeds of the timber harvesting with
    the local government.
        Back in the 1980s, for example, Sabine County had $1.6
    million as their shared portion. Very rural county. But in
    recent years, it has dropped as low as 60,000. And then with
    the so-called stewardship program, I know, according to Mr.
    Westerman, it has been helpful in Arkansas. But in East Texas,
    it seems to be used to hide money from being shared with local
    government.
        We run into problems like, where a culvert is, a bridge
    goes down. A culvert becomes impassible. But it is as if the
    U.S. Forest Service likes the area being unable to traverse for
    local residents. We have boat ramps that have ceased being
    used. And it took over 4 months, but we got a response: ``boat
    ramp is not sustainable from a structural or financial
    perspective'' and that ``using volunteers is neither safe nor
    practical''.
        And in case you are not familiar, we don't have any
    sequoias or redwoods. We have pine trees. And newer pine trees
    actually sequester more carbon, if you are not familiar. So, it
    ends up being one of our best renewable resources--20, 25
    years, you plant pine trees, and they are back in East Texas.
    They can be harvested. The older they get, the less carbon they
    sequester.
        But it just seems that, regardless of the administration,
    the U.S. Forest Service is doing a great disservice to East
    Texas and other places. The trees are not being harvested, the
    resources not being renewed. And we had a deputy in San
    Augustine County chase a criminal into the national forest but
    stopped in order to get permission. And he was in hot pursuit.
    I think it was about 5 days later, after lots of screaming by a
    lot of us, that someone was sent from Arizona to come check
    things out and was surprised to find the most sophisticated
    marijuana growing area that they had ever experienced.
        But because of the lack of assistance from U.S. Forest
    Service aiding and abetting the getaway of those who
    constructed the marijuana growing service, they got a little
    ahead of the game of it being legalized. They were free to go
    to some other national forest and again continue to engage in
    criminality. So, we haven't gotten a whole lot of help, nor a
    lot of cooperation, out of the U.S. Forest Service.
        And if we get an Administration so amenable, I am going to
    be pushing hard to get land given back to local communities so
    that they don't continue in their struggle just to survive
    because the U.S. Forest Service has become so blase about doing
    what it originally agreed to do. I realize I have 10 seconds
    left and haven't arrived at a question. But I wanted to make
    sure that you knew how unpalatable the U.S. Forest Service has
    become in East Texas. And we are hoping that we can bring it to
    an end unless you turn about very quickly in helping the local
    area instead of hurting it. I yield back.
        Mr. Neguse. The gentleman yields back. I give the witnesses
    an opportunity to respond if they would like to. But if not, we
    will proceed.
        Mr. Gohmert. I didn't realize I made a question there. So,
    yes, thanks for extending my time.
        Mr. Neguse. My pleasure.
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. I would like to respond because I think
    the points that you brought up are very important, Congressman.
    And I would say all of our leaders in the field pride
    themselves on their relationships that they have with their
    state and local partners. But it is not always perfect, and we
    can do better. So, it is important that we heard your concerns,
    and I can commit that we will work on those in Texas. I think
    our district rangers and our forest supervisor there are always
    going to be wanting to improve their relationships. I can
    assure you of that.
        Mr. Gohmert. Would you understand when someone is in hot
    pursuit, taking 5 days to give permission is really not
    helpful, right? And when you shut down the boat ramps that
    would help provide fishing tournaments, things like that, some
    source for the economy, and you continue to shut them down,
    shut down camping areas, that is not what the locals consider
    to be extremely cooperative. You get that, right?
        Ms. Hall-Rivera. Yes. I understand what you are saying,
    Congressman.
        Mr. Gohmert. Well, we would love to hear a better response
    than, no, it's just not going to work out.
        Mr. Neguse. Aren't you glad that I gave the witnesses an
    opportunity to respond?
        Mr. Gohmert. I appreciate it.
        Mr. Neguse. Before we conclude with this witness panel, are
    there any other Members who have not had their 5 minutes and
    who wish to seek recognition to ask questions now. Do we have
    anybody virtually?
        Hearing none, I want to thank the witnesses for their
    valuable testimony and the Members for their questions. Look,
    these are tough issues and so no shortage of very nuanced and
    difficult questions and, I think, thorough and insightful
    answers. We appreciate the partnership. And we will look
    forward to continuing to work with the Administration on these
    issues and more.
        The members of the Committee may have some additional
    questions for the witnesses. And we will ask you to respond to
    those in writing. Under Committee Rule 3(o), members of the
    Committee must submit witness questions within 3 business days
    following this hearing. And the hearing record will be held
    open for 10 business days for these responses.
        If there is no other further business, without objection,
    the Subcommittee stands adjourned.

        [Whereupon, at 12:08 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

                [ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD]

                            Statement for the Record
                             J. Morgan Varner, PhD
                              Director of Research
                                  Tall Timbers

        On behalf of Tall Timbers, we thank the Committee for its interest
    in prescribed fire. Management of fire in our nations forests and
    rangelands is a tremendous challenge as we face the complications of a
    changing climate and past land management that failed to recognize the
    benefits of fire. We hope that we can work with the Committee to find
    solutions to use prescribed fire as a way to reshape and restore our
    forests for reduced wildfire risk and a more resilient future.
        Tall Timbers is a non-governmental research organization with over
    60-years of experience using prescribed fire science to solve land
    management problems. From the 1960s through today, we provide key
    leadership for proactive use of prescribed fire and research on how
    fires behave, what their ecological effects are, and how society
    interacts with fire-prone landscapes. Our unique perspective is rooted
    in a long-term practice of working cooperatively to conduct research
    and apply it to over a one million acres through a network of land
    managers in the Southeast US. Our mission is to foster exemplary land
    stewardship through research, conservation and education.
        As the Director of Research at Tall Timbers, I see firsthand every
    day how we can prevent extreme fire using controlled burns. I also
    serve on California's Wildfire & Forest Resilience Task Force and share
    guidance on how controlled burns can enhance firefighting efforts in
    the west. In a time when there is no longer a fire season, all tools
    should be deployed, and we are pleased that the Forest Service and
    Department of Interior were given greater resources under the
    Bipartisan Infrastructure Law to address fire issues.
        Tall Timbers is a long-time partner of the Forest Service,
    Department of Interior and other federal agencies. We are working with
    the Forest Service and Department of Interior on prescribed fire best
    practices and are awaiting guidance on how the $500 million for
    prescribed fire as authorized in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law will
    be implemented.
        We also were pleased to hear that the members of the wildfire
    commission will be announced in the coming months. Hearing perspectives
    from outside the federal government is extremely helpful in providing a
    holistic view on what must be accomplished across the country to keep
    people safe and our ecosystems intact.
        Workforce training is another critical piece of the Bipartisan
    Infrastructure Law that we are watching closely. We were excited to see
    that the Forest Service and Office of Personnel Management will develop
    a ``wildland firefighter'' occupational series. This is vital to ensure
    wildland firefighters have the tools they need to operate in at times
    life-threatening settings. Increasing the prescribed fire workforce via
    investments in training capacity and technologies for federal and state
    agencies and private land managers is critical to overcoming the
    backlog of lands in need of restoration and fuels management.
        And finally, funding for data science is an ongoing critical need.
    Wildland fire research is a major need moving forward to enable the
    increases in pace and scale of prescribed fire and managed wildfires
    that federal land management agencies have prioritized. Increasing the
    budget to $20 million for the multi-agency Fire and Smoke Model
    Evaluation Experiment (FAASME) will have a big impact on advancing the
    fire and smoke models that fire managers need for both prescribed fire
    and wildland fires.
        We applauded the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law's focus on wildfire
    and believe these funding increases and increased engagement
    opportunities for non-government stakeholders will create long-lasting
    benefits. Tall Timbers thanks this Subcommittee for its continued
    interest in wildfire management and providing transparency throughout
    implementation of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. Please view Tall
    Timbers as a partner on policy related to wildfire management.
        Thank you for the opportunity to contribute this feedback.

                                     ______

    [LIST OF DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD RETAINED IN THE COMMITTEE'S
                                OFFICIAL FILES]

    Letter from Jessica Turner, President at Outdoor Recreation
    Roundtable, expressing support for the Infrastructure
    Investment and Jobs Act dated April 5, 2022.

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