[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                     TRIBAL VOICES, TRIBAL WISDOM:
                   STRATEGIES FOR THE CLIMATE CRISIS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                        SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE 
                             CLIMATE CRISIS
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              HEARING HELD
                           NOVEMBER 18, 2021

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-11
                           
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   Printed for the use of the Select Committee on the Climate Crisis
   
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                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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                 SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE CLIMATE CRISIS
                 
                    One Hundred Seventeenth Congress

                      KATHY CASTOR, Florida, Chair
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon             GARRET GRAVES, Louisiana,
JULIA BROWNLEY, California             Ranking Member
JARED HUFFMAN, California            GARY PALMER, Alabama
A. DONALD McEACHIN, Virginia         BUDDY CARTER, Georgia
MIKE LEVIN, California               CAROL MILLER, West Virginia
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois                KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota
JOE NEGUSE, Colorado                 DAN CRENSHAW, Texas
VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas              ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
                                
                                ------
                                 
                Ana Unruh Cohen, Majority Staff Director
                  Marty Hall, Minority Staff Director
                        climatecrisis.house.gov
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                   STATEMENTS OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Kathy Castor, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Florida, and Chair, Select Committee on the Climate Crisis:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
    Prepared Statement...........................................     3
Hon. Garrett Graves, a Representative in Congress from the State 
  of Louisiana, and Ranking Member, Select Committee on the 
  Climate Crisis:
    Opening Statement............................................     4
Hon. Sean Casten, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Illinois, and Member, Select Committee on the Climate Crisis:
    Prepared Statement...........................................     5
Hon. Dan Crenshaw, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Texas, and Member, Select Committee on the Climate Crisis:
    Prepared Statement...........................................     6

                               WITNESSES

The Honorable Fawn Sharp, President, National Congress of 
  American Indians; and Vice President, Quinault Indian Nation
  Oral Statement.................................................     8
  Prepared Statement.............................................    10
The Honorable Melvin J. Baker, Chairman, Southern Ute Indian 
  Tribe
  Oral Statement.................................................    14
  Prepared Statement.............................................    16
Dr. Casey Thornbrugh, Climate Change Program Manager, United 
  South and Eastern Tribes, Inc.; and Tribal Climate Science 
  Liaison, DOI Northeast and Southeast Climate Adaptation Science 
  Centers
  Oral Statement.................................................    18
  Prepared Statement.............................................    19
Pilar Thomas, Partner, Energy, Environment & Natural Resources 
  Practice Group, Quarles & Brady LLP
  Oral Statement.................................................    24
  Prepared Statement.............................................    26

                       SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD

Press release from The Navajo Nation, ``Navajo Nation Opposes 
  Withdrawal for Development at Chaco Canyon, Tribal Consultation 
  Ignored,'' submitted for the record by Mr. Graves..............    48
Article from NET Power, ``NET Power Delivers Electricity to Grid 
  in Major Technological Breakthrough,'' submitted for the record 
  by Mr. Graves..................................................    48
C2ES topic summary on carbon capture technology, submitted for 
  the record by Mr. Graves.......................................    48
Resolution from the National Congress of American Indians, 
  ``Amending and Updating NCAI Resolution #SD-15-024 and 
  Supporting Tribal Disaster Resilience and Climate Change 
  Principles,'' submitted for the record by Ms. Castor...........    49
Resolution from the National Congress of American Indians, 
  ``Additional Tribal Disaster Resilience and Climate Change 
  Common Principles,'' submitted for the record by Ms. Castor....    49
Report from the International Monetary Fund, Still Not Getting 
  Energy Prices Right: A Global and Country Update of Fossil Fuel 
  Subsidies, submitted for the record by Ms. Castor..............    49

                                APPENDIX

Questions for the Record from Hon. Kathy Castor to Hon. Fawn 
  Sharp..........................................................    49
Questions for the Record from Hon. Garret Graves to Hon. Fawn 
  Sharp..........................................................    51
Questions for the Record from Hon. A. Donald McEachin to Hon. 
  Melvin J. Baker................................................    53
Questions for the Record from Hon. Garret Graves to Hon. Melvin 
  J. Baker.......................................................    54
Questions for the Record from Hon. Kathy Castor to Casey 
  Thornbrugh.....................................................    56
Questions for the Record from Hon. Garret Graves to Casey 
  Thornbrugh.....................................................    57
Questions for the Record from Hon. A. Donald McEachin to Casey 
  Thornbrugh.....................................................    57
Questions for the Record from Hon. Kathy Castor to Pilar Thomas..    58

 
                     TRIBAL VOICES, TRIBAL WISDOM:
                   STRATEGIES FOR THE CLIMATE CRISIS

                              ----------                              


                      THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 2021

                          House of Representatives,
                    Select Committee on the Climate Crisis,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to call, at 9:30 a.m., in Room 
210, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Kathy Castor 
[chairwoman of the committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Castor, Bonamici, Huffman, 
McEachin, Casten, Escobar, Graves, Palmer, Carter, and 
Crenshaw.
    Ms. Castor. The committee will come to order. Welcome to 
the Select Committee on the Climate Crisis committee meeting 
this morning, ``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom: Strategies for 
the Climate Crisis.''
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the committee at any time.
    And, as a reminder, members participating in a hearing 
remotely should be visible on camera throughout the hearing. As 
with in-person meetings, members are responsible for 
controlling their own microphones. Members can be muted by 
staff only to avoid inadvertent background noise.
    And I would like to remind members, per the guidance of the 
Attending Physician, members, staff, and all others physically 
present in an indoor U.S. House of Representatives space, 
including this hearing room, are required to wear masks, unless 
seeking or under recognition by the chair.
    In addition, statements, documents, or motions must be submi
tted 
to the electronic repository at [email protected].
    Finally, members or witnesses experiencing any technical 
problems should inform committee staff immediately.
    Thank you all for joining this hybrid hearing. I will now 
recognize myself for an opening statement--if I can locate it.
    A-ha. Okay.
    Good morning again.
    The original stewards of the land, indigenous peoples and 
communities, have a great deal to teach us about tackling 
climate change. While over the centuries Tribal nations have 
carried the painful scars of stolen land, forced removal, and 
genocide, they have also endured, survived, and proudly held on 
to sacred traditions, unique traditional ecological knowledge, 
and wisdom they inherited from their ancestors.
    Today, during Native American Heritage Month, we will have 
an opportunity to listen to distinguished Tribal leaders and 
experts from across Indian Country on how they are addressing 
the climate crisis, and we will discuss how Congress can 
partner with Tribal nations to create an equitable clean-energy 
future for all communities.
    Tribal nations are on the front lines of the climate 
crisis. Extreme weather events are impacting sacred lands, 
burial sites, and cultural traditions. And the long-term risks 
of climate change, including sea level rise, extreme heat, and 
decreased precipitation, are threatening the health and 
livelihoods of millions of Native Americans.
    As we work to solve the climate crisis, Congress has a 
responsibility to respect Tribal sovereignty and to help Tribal 
nations build resilience to climate impacts and to support 
their leadership in transitioning to a clean energy economy. We 
must partner on innovative solutions, drawing on the extensive 
ancestral knowledge and capabilities across Indian Country. And 
we must ensure Tribal voices have a seat at the table and that 
the Federal Government ensures free, prior, and informed 
consent as part of Tribal consultation informing Federal 
decisions.
    Today, we have reason for optimism. This week, during a 
Tribal Nations Summit at the White House, President Biden 
announced a historic initiative to integrate Tribal knowledge 
into Federal decisionmaking. And, earlier this year, President 
Biden tapped our former House colleague, Deb Haaland, to lead 
the Interior Department, and she became the first Native 
American Cabinet Secretary in history. The President also has 
appointed more than 50 Native American leaders to positions 
throughout the administration and, last month, officially 
declared Indigenous Peoples' Day as a Federal holiday.
    The Biden-Harris administration also has taken tangible 
steps to protect lands sacred to Tribes. In a short year, the 
administration has restored protections for Bears Ears and 
Grand Staircase-Escalante, protected Arctic waters and the 
Bering Sea, and suspended oil leases in the Arctic National 
Wildlife Refuge.
    The President has also made a point of collaborating with 
Tribal nations on the ``America the Beautiful'' initiative, a 
voluntary nationwide effort to conserve 30 percent of our lands 
and waterways by 2030.
    And, here in Congress, we are also making very important 
progress. On Monday, America cheered as President Biden signed 
the bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, which 
will invest over $13 billion in Tribal communities and 
indigenous peoples. This historic infrastructure law invests 
more than $3 billion for Tribal transportation initiatives, and 
over $2 billion for Tribal broadband and digital equity, and 
nearly $1 billion for Tribal drinking water and clean water 
investments.
    The bipartisan infrastructure law also will invest $150 
million in plugging, remediating, and restoring Tribal orphan 
well sites and $130 million for Tribal community relocation 
projects.
    But that is not all. This week, the excitement is building 
as we are poised to build on those investments with the Build 
Back Better Act, which includes a major investment to address 
health disparities in Tribal communities as well as in Tribal 
resilience and adaptation.
    And, as you will hear from today's witnesses, these 
investments are critical right now. And I want to thank them 
all for being with us today, and I look forward to today's 
discussion.
    And, at this time, I am happy to yield 5 minutes to the 
Ranking Member, Garret Graves of Louisiana.
    Good morning, Garret.
    [The statement of Ms. Castor follows:]

                Opening Statement of Chair Kathy Castor

                              Hearing on 
  ``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom: Strategies for the Climate Crisis''

                 Select Committee on the Climate Crisis

                           November 18, 2021

                        As prepared for delivery

    The original stewards of the land, Indigenous people and 
communities, have a great deal to teach us about tackling climate 
change. While, over the centuries, Tribal Nations have carried the 
painful scars of stolen land, forced removal, and genocide, they've 
also endured, survived, and proudly held on to the sacred traditions, 
unique traditional ecological knowledge, and the wisdom they inherited 
from their ancestors. Today, during this Native American Heritage 
Month, we'll have an opportunity to listen to distinguished Tribal 
leaders and experts from across Indian Country on how they are 
addressing the climate crisis. And we'll discuss how Congress can 
partner with Tribal Nations to create an equitable clean energy future 
for all communities.
    Tribal Nations are on the frontlines of the climate crisis. Extreme 
weather events are impacting sacred lands, burial sites, and cultural 
traditions. And the long-term risks of climate change--including sea-
level rise, extreme heat, and decreased precipitation--are threatening 
the health and livelihoods of millions of Native Americans.
    As we work on solving the climate crisis, Congress has a 
responsibility to respect Tribal sovereignty, to help Tribal Nations 
build resilience to climate impacts, and to support their leadership in 
transitioning to a clean energy economy. We must partner on innovative 
solutions, drawing on the extensive ancestral knowledge and 
capabilities across Indian Country. And we must ensure Tribal voices 
have a seat at the table and that the federal government ensures Free, 
Prior and Informed Consent as part of tribal consultation informing 
federal decisions. Today, we have reason for optimism. This week, 
during a Tribal Nations Summit at the White House, President Biden 
announced a historic initiative to integrate Tribal knowledge into 
federal decision-making.
    And earlier this year, President Biden tapped our former House 
colleague, Deb Haaland, to lead the Interior Department, and she became 
the first Native American cabinet secretary in history. The President 
also has appointed more than 50 Native American leaders to positions 
throughout the Administration, and last month officially declared 
Indigenous Peoples Day as a federal holiday.
    The Biden-Harris Administration also has taken tangible steps to 
protect lands sacred to Tribes. In a short year, the Administration has 
restored protections for Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante; 
protected Arctic waters and the Bering Sea; and suspended oil leases in 
the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. The President has also made a 
point of collaborating with Tribal Nations on the America the Beautiful 
Initiative--a voluntary, nationwide effort to conserve 30 percent of 
our lands and waters by 2030.
    Here in Congress, we are also making important progress. On Monday, 
America cheered as President Biden signed the bipartisan Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act, which will invest over $13 billion dollars in 
Tribal communities and indigenous people. This historic infrastructure 
law invests more than $3 billion dollars for tribal transportation 
programs; over $2 billion dollars for tribal broadband and digital 
equity investments; and nearly $1 billion dollars for tribal drinking 
water and clean water investments. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law 
also will invest $150 million dollars in plugging, remediating, and 
restoring tribal orphaned well sites; and $130 million dollars for 
tribal community relocation projects.
    But that's not all. This week the excitement is building as we're 
poised to build on those investments with the Build Back Better Act, 
which includes a major investment to address health disparities in 
tribal communities, as well as in tribal resilience and adaptation.
    As you'll hear from today's witnesses, these investments are 
critical right now. I want to thank them all for being with us today. 
And I look forward to today's discussion.

    Mr. Graves. Hey, good morning, Madam Chair. Thank you for 
holding this hearing.
    And I want to thank everybody for joining us today.
    You know, the United States is--we are leading the world in 
reducing emissions and doing it in an affordable way, 
benefiting our Tribal communities, benefiting Americans across 
the entire nation, across all of our states and our 
territories.
    As we move forward, we have got to deploy solutions that 
are globally deployable. That means that they are both reliable 
and that they are affordable. And we are going to hear today on 
the important role that Tribes are playing in ensuring that we 
can achieve just that.
    But something that is also really important is how we make 
decisions in the United States using our abundant resources. 
All of our energy and our climate policies must be based on our 
assets and resources right here in the United States, and the 
same is true for the Tribes. The Tribes are kind of like a 
microcosm of what is possible, looking at the assets, the 
resources they have, whether it is wind, solar, whether it is 
geothermal, maybe wave energy. That could include even things 
like fossil fuels, if those are the resources that they have.
    And it is important that, as we move forward, we learn from 
both the successes and the failures of others. I just got back 
from Europe, like Madam Chair did. And we are not Europe, and, 
thankfully, we are not pursuing, at least right now, all of 
their strategies, although I am hearing more and more about how 
we need to move in that direction.
    It is crystal clear to me that that direction is not one 
that, one, complies with or recognizes the assets and resources 
in the United States. Number two, it fails to meet the 
reliability test. Number three, it fails to meet the 
affordability test.
    And, as I have mentioned in this committee before, look no 
further than the State of California as to how to not pursue 
clean energy strategies--higher emissions, higher prices, most 
dependent state upon foreign energy.
    One of the Tribes that we are going to hear from today is 
the Southern Ute Tribe, who are on the forefront of the clean 
energy revolution. The next wave of energy innovation that they 
are pursuing will deliver on this promise of an American-based 
resource but also one that is carbon-free and, in fact, at 
utility scale.
    Among all of the advancements that they are developing is a 
utility-scale project to utilize their own natural gas 
resources, combined with cutting-edge innovation, to generate 
affordable electricity with zero emissions on demand. This is 
baseload power.
    In fact, the company NET Power just announced yesterday 
that they delivered to the grid, for the first time anywhere, 
zero emissions baseload electricity utilizing natural gas. This 
is something that is a global game changer that everyone here 
should be thrilled about, and I am shocked that I haven't heard 
any of my colleagues make mention of this.
    Let me say it again: American resources, natural gas--right 
there, Tribal resources, natural gas, zero emissions, 
affordable electricity, baseload power put onto the grid. If 
you are to believe the science and just about every credible 
analysis, then this announcement yesterday is a seismic shift 
in advancing the technology essential to achieving meaningful 
global action to reduce emis- 
sions.
    Madam Chair, I heard you talk a lot in your opening about 
listening to Tribes and making sure that there is Tribal 
consent, and I agree with you. I think that is really important 
when we move forward, that we do look at the Tribes like a 
microcosm of opportunity and ensure that the Tribes, like the 
Southern Ute in this case, that we are listening to them and 
how we can not--as many people have failed on their strategy--
not look at the source of energy as the enemy but recognize it 
is actually the emissions.
    And the Southern Ute Tribe's project is a perfect example 
of how we can deliver reliable, affordable, emissions-free 
energy that can ultimately be exported around the world, rather 
than the strategies that we have seen recently, where our 
administration is asking Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela, 
Nigeria, and other countries to basically produce energy.
    Lastly, Madam Chair, I think it is important to note, just 
yesterday, the lease sale that the courts forced the Biden 
administration to pursue ended up providing nearly $200 million 
to the Treasury, just from the lease sale. That is not from the 
production.
    And that is important, Madam Chair, because, in a hearing 
this week, they told us onshore renewable energy production 
only produced $40 million for the United States, whereas 
offshore in recent years has produced $10 billion. If we are 
going to fund important BIA efforts, important environmental 
protection, important healthcare, education, infrastructure, 
and others, we have got to have the resources to do it.
    So I look forward to hearing from our witnesses and yield 
back.

                        Statement for the Record

                       The Honorable Sean Casten

                               Hearing on

  ``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom: Strategies for the Climate Crisis''

                 Select Committee on the Climate Crisis

                           November 18, 2021

    Fossil-fuel subsidies continue to be a primary reason for why the 
timeline of shifting to renewable energy sources faces further delay. 
Whereas ideally we would have a level playing field for cheaper 
renewable energy technologies to gain market share, the long sustaining 
subsidization of fossil fuels has set the country backwards for the 
past several decades.
    The International Monetary Fund (IMF) calculated in 2020 that total 
subsidies equaled $5.9 trillion, or almost 7% of global gross domestic 
product.\1\ This analysis rightfully takes into account the hidden 
costs of fossil fuels, including their impacts on air pollution and 
global warming, as polluters do not pay for the damage they cause to 
society.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Parry, I., Black, S. & Vernon, N. Still Not Getting Energy 
Prices Right: A Global and Country Update of Fossil Fuel Subsidies. IMF 
Working Paper WP/21/236 (International Monetary Fund, 2021).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Even if one prefers not to consider these life-or-death 
externalities, the International Economic Association and the 
Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) estimated 
that 52 advanced and emerging economies, representing nearly 90% of 
global fossil fuel subsidies, pour more than half a trillion dollars 
yearly into artificially lowering the price of fossil fuels. This is 
more than triple what renewables receive.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ See: https://www.oecd.org/g20/topics/climate-sustainability-
and-energy/OECD-IEA-G20-Fossil-Fuel-Subsidies-Reform-Update-2021.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Importantly, action can be taken to reverse these trends. The 
International Institute for Sustainable Development (IISD) found in 
2020 that removing consumption subsidies in 32 countries would cut 
their greenhouse-gas emissions by an average of 6% by 2025.\3\ This is 
in line with a 2018 United Nations report suggesting that phasing out 
fossil-fuel support could reduce global emissions by between 1% and 11% 
from 2020 to 2030.\4\ That reduction could be amplified if the money 
that would have subsidized fossil fuels was instead used to support 
renewable energy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ Geddes, A. et al. Doubling Back and Doubling Down: G20 
Scorecard on Fossil Fuel Funding (International Institute for 
Sustainable Development, 2020).
    \4\ UN Environment Programme. Emissions Gap Report 2018 (UN, 2018).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Some Members on the Republican side of the aisle falsely claim 
renewables receive more government assistance than fossil fuels. A 2011 
CRS Report found that between 1968-2010 estimated revenue losses 
associated with tax incentives for the oil and gas sector sum to $193.4 
billion. Meanwhile, data for tax incentives for renewable energy first 
introduced in the late 70s has an estimated cumulative cost of $24.6 
billion. Even in the most recent decade, annual tax expenditures do not 
surpass $7B.\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ CRS Report R41227, Energy Tax Policy: Historical Perspectives 
on and Current Status of Energy Tax Expenditures.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Lastly, a 2020 report by the International Renewable Energy Agency 
(IRENA) tracked some $634 billion in energy-sector subsidies in 2020, 
and found that around 70% went to fossil fuels. Only 20% went to 
renewable power generation, 6% to biofuels and just over 3% to nuclear. 
The report concluded, ``This overwhelming imbalance of subsidies 
between fossil fuels and clean energy is a drag on us achieving the 
Paris climate goals.'' \6\ As evidenced by the CRS report, this same 
imbalance has persisted over the past two decades, even before 
renewable energy technologies started to become more viable.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ Taylor, M. Energy Subsidies: Evolution in the Global Energy 
Transformation to 2050 (International Renewable Energy Agency, 2020).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Without changes to this significant subsidy imbalance, oil and gas 
expansion will continue to wreak havoc on our climate and further delay 
our ability to achieve decarbonization goals.

                        Statement for the Record

                       The Honorable Dan Crenshaw

                              Hearing on 
  ``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom: Strategies for the Climate Crisis''

                 Select Committee on the Climate Crisis

                           November 18, 2021

    During the Select Committee on the Climate Crisis hearing on 
``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom: Strategies for the Climate Crisis'', 
many of my Democratic colleagues reiterated the oft-repeated claim that 
fossil fuels get inordinate amounts of federal subsidies. Backing up 
this claim, my colleagues used a report from IMF, entitled, ``Still Not 
Getting Energy Prices Right: A Global and Country Update of Fossil Fuel 
Subsidies.''
    During my time in Congress, ``subsidy'' has generally been defined 
as a sum of money transferred by the government to assist an industry 
or business. The term is so broad that it includes tax exemptions or 
deductions, grants, loans, and other fiduciary devices.
    However, ``subsidy'' has never been defined so broadly as to 
include indirect or correlational environmental costs and global 
warming costs. But this is the definition that the IMF used to 
calculate global fossil fuel subsidies at a whopping $5.9 trillion in 
2020 or about 6.8 percent of GDP and are expected to rise to 7.4 
percent of GDP in 2025. And, by extension, this is the definition that 
my Democratic colleagues used to mischaracterize the subsidies that 
fossil fuels receive.
    Instead, I would like to direct my colleagues to Congressional 
Research Service's calculation of tax preferences and subsidies in the 
energy industry.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R44852.pdf.
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    I applaud my colleagues for their concern over the direction of 
scarce federal resources. However, it may be a better question to ask--
should we be subsidizing the renewable energy industry to the tune of 
$11B a year, for them to produce such a small share of the nation's 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
energy?

    Ms. Castor. Now I want to welcome our witnesses.
    We will hear from experts on Tribal perspectives on climate 
change, the transition to the clean energy economy, and 
adaptation to climate impacts.
    First, the Honorable Fawn Sharp is the President of the 
National Congress of American Indians and Vice President of the 
Quinault Indian Nation, a community of 2,500 in Taholah, 
Washington. She is the 23rd President of the NCAI, the oldest 
and largest American Indian and Alaska Native Tribal government 
organization in the country.
    The Honorable Melvin J. Baker is the Chairman of the 
Southern Ute Indian Tribe. He previously served on the Southern 
Ute Tribal Council, the Colorado Commission of Indian Affairs, 
and the Southern Ute Indian Housing Authority.
    Dr. Casey Thornbrugh is the Climate Change Program Manager 
in the Office of Environmental Resource Management for the 
United South and Eastern Tribes. He also serves as a Tribal 
Climate Science Liaison for the Department of Interior 
Northeast and Southeast Climate Adaptation Science Centers. Dr. 
Thornbrugh is a citizen of the Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe.
    And Pilar Thomas is a Partner in the Energy, Environment, 
and Natural Resources Practice Group of the law firm Quarles & 
Brady, LLP. She previously served as the Deputy Director of the 
Office of Indian Energy and Policy Programs at the U.S. 
Department of Energy and as the Deputy Solicitor of Indian 
Affairs at the U.S. Department of the Interior. Ms. Thomas also 
served as the Interim Attorney General and Chief of Staff to 
Chairwoman Herminia Frias of the Pascalyaki Tribe, where she is 
a member.
    Without objection, the witnesses' written statements will 
be made part of the record.
    And, with that, President Sharp, welcome. You are now 
recognized for 5 minutes to give a presentation of your 
testimony.

 STATEMENTS OF THE HON. FAWN SHARP, PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL 
 CONGRESS OF AMERICAN INDIANS (NCAI) AND VICE PRESIDENT OF THE 
  QUINAULT INDIAN NATION; THE HON. MELVIN J. BAKER, CHAIRMAN, 
SOUTHERN UTE INDIAN TRIBE; DR. CASEY THORNBRUGH, CLIMATE CHANGE 
 PROGRAM MANAGER, OFFICE OF ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCE MANAGEMENT, 
   UNITED SOUTH AND EASTERN TRIBES, INC., AND TRIBAL CLIMATE 
SCIENCE LIAISON, DOI NORTHEAST AND SOUTHEAST CLIMATE ADAPTATION 
      SCIENCE CENTERS; AND PILAR THOMAS, PARTNER, ENERGY, 
 ENVIRONMENT, AND NATURAL RESOURCES PRACTICE GROUP, QUARLES & 
                           BRADY, LLP

                STATEMENT OF THE HON. FAWN SHARP

    Ms. Sharp. [Speaking native language.] Good morning, Chair 
Castor, Ranking Member Graves, and members of the House Select 
Committee on the Climate Crisis. On behalf of the National 
Congress of American Indians, I wanted to thank you for holding 
this hearing.
    My name is Fawn Sharp, and I serve as Vice President of the 
Quinault Nation and President of NCAI.
    As you point out, Chairwoman, Tribal nations are on the 
front lines of climate change. Every region of NCAI is deeply 
impacted by climate change. However, even as Tribal nations are 
faced with the severity of climate change impacts, our 
traditional ecological practices have allowed our communities 
to develop and implement our own innovative approaches in 
addressing the climate crisis.
    With this week's White House Tribal Nations Summit and with 
Special Presidential Envoy John Kerry inviting us to sit on the 
U.S. delegation for COP26, this is a critical time for meetings 
like this to happen so that our indigenous voices and solutions 
are heard at the decision-making table.
    To facilitate the committee's work today, my testimony will 
highlight existing Tribal climate strategies and will identify 
how the committee can support Tribal climate change 
initiatives. Additionally, I will highlight some of the 
discussions that happened at COP26 with our international 
indigenous communities and allies.
    Tribal nations have long taken care of their land and 
natural resources since time immemorial. Backed with 
traditional ecological knowledge and practices, Tribal nations 
across Indian Country have been able to respond to climate 
change by crafting their own self-governed approaches to 
climate resiliency and mitigation efforts.
    In my written testimony, I highlighted three Tribal nations 
working to address climate change impacts: the Gila River 
Indian Community, Blue Lake Rancheria, and the Karuk Tribe. 
Each of these Tribal nations have their own innovative 
approaches to tackling climate change impacts on their cultural 
and natural resources.
    From leading drought contingency efforts to becoming 
national leaders on clean energy transition and using 
traditional ecological practices to combat the damages of 
wildfires, these Tribal nations exemplify our need to have 
partners in climate mitigation and resiliency efforts.
    Congress plays a critical role not only as a convener but 
also to support and incentivize intergovernmental initiatives 
between Tribal governments and the Federal, state, and local 
governments, as well as other interested stakeholders.
    This committee and others must also address the funding 
barriers associated with accessing Federal climate resiliency 
funding as well as advocate for expanding financing for climate 
change funding that directly supports Tribal climate resilience 
and mitigation projects across Indian Country.
    I want to first address community relocation emergencies 
and their associated project costs. These projects are 
devastating Tribal nations across Indian Country as they work 
to combat the climate crisis.
    My nation, the Quinault Indian Nation, knows this all too 
well. We are located on the southwest corner of the Olympic 
Peninsula of the State of Washington along the Pacific Ocean. 
Since time immemorial, my nation has relied on the waters of 
the Quinault and Queets Rivers and the Pacific Ocean for 
sustenance and survival.
    The Village of Taholah is the primary population, social, 
economic, and government center of our Nation. In 2012, my 
Nation began developing a master plan for relocation of our 
residents, businesses, and institutions of lower Taholah to a 
new village on higher ground. This master plan involves 
multiple Federal agencies, including DOI, HUD, and Interior, 
and has an estimated price tag of $150 million to $200 million.
    And Quinault is only one example of several Tribal nations 
working to relocate their communities across Indian Country.
    We at NCAI applaud the passage of the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act, which passed a $130 million set-aside 
for Tribal community relocation projects. This is the first 
federally established community relocation fund that is 
specific to Indian Country, so it is crucial that members of 
this committee consider establishing a Federal relocation 
framework for Tribal relocation efforts and promote the need 
for meaningful Tribal consultation on the implementation of the 
infrastructure package's $130 million Tribal relocation fund.
    In order to adequately address the climate crisis, we must 
collectively look to engage with our international partners. 
Many Tribal nations, Tribal organizations, and NCAI are 
longstanding international climate change partners.
    Just this past month, we attended COP26, as the article of 
the Paris Agreement, Article 6, which addresses market and non-
market approaches to climate change, were negotiated. On 
November 13th, Article 6 was adopted, with many of our 
positions included in the final text.
    I am happy to discuss this further, and I appreciate the 
time and opportunity this morning. And, again, thank you for 
convening this very important and critically timely session. 
[Speaking Native language.] I am happy to answer any questions.
    [The statement of Ms. Sharp follows:]

            Written Testimony for NCAI President Fawn Sharp

          House Select Committee on the Climate Crisis Hearing

  ``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom: Strategies for the Climate Crisis''

                      Thursday, November 18, 2021

Introduction
    Chair Castor, Ranking Member Graves, and members of the House 
Select Committee on the Climate Crisis, on behalf of the National 
Congress of American Indians (NCAI), I would like to thank you for 
holding this hearing on ``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom: Strategies for 
the Climate Crisis.'' My name is Fawn Sharp, and I serve as the Vice 
President of the Quinault Indian Nation and President of NCAI. I look 
forward to working with members of this Committee and other members of 
Congress to identify climate adaptation strategies that incorporate 
traditional ecological knowledge and respect tribal sovereignty and 
self-determination.
    Tribal Nations are on the front lines of climate change--responding 
to sea level rise, coastal erosion, ocean acidification and salinity, 
increased frequency and intensity of extreme weather disasters, 
climate-induced food insecurity, altered seasonal duration, economic 
and health impacts, and more.
    As place-based peoples, Tribal Nations have sacred histories and 
maintain cultural practices that tie them to their current land bases 
and ancestral territories. These time-honored ecological practices are 
designed to preserve our natural resources and guard against ecological 
damages to our food, water, and medicinal plant resources. Climate 
change not only threatens these resources and the ability of Tribal 
Nations to care for them as they have always done, but it also impairs 
the ability of Tribal Nations to build sustainable economies and care 
for their citizens.
    However, even as Tribal Nations are faced with the severity of 
climate change impacts, our traditional ecological knowledge has 
allowed for tribal communities to develop and implement their own 
unique, and innovative approaches to tackling the climate crisis. In 
support of the climate work happening in tribal communities, this 
testimony highlights existing tribal climate strategies and identifies 
how the Committee can support tribal climate change initiatives by 
addressing existing funding barriers, developing a federal relocation 
framework, and engaging with international Indigenous communities to 
develop a global climate agenda.
Transferable Lessons from Tribal Climate Mitigation and Resiliency 
        Initiatives
    Tribal Nations have taken care of their land and natural resources 
since time immemorial. Backed with traditional ecological knowledge and 
practices, Tribal Nations across Indian Country have been able to 
respond to climate change by crafting their own self-governed approach 
to climate resiliency and mitigation practices. As such, NCAI would 
like to share with the Select Committee a few examples of the 
innovative climate action approaches being carried out by Tribal 
Nations within their own communities today.
The Gila River Water Storage LLC & the Gila River Indian Community's 
        Key Role in Drought Management
    In Arizona, the Gila River Indian Community (``Community'') has 
become a leader in water management in Arizona, and in the Lower 
Colorado River Basin.
    Nearly 10 years ago, the Community, in collaboration with Salt 
River Project power and water (``SRP''), one of Arizona's largest 
utilities, created the Gila River Water Storage LLC in response to 
mounting challenges created by increasing water scarcity. The goal of 
the project is to make up to five million acre-feet of additional 
dependable, renewable water supplies available to central Arizona. Key 
to this initiative is ``water-banking'' and the creation of ``long-term 
storage credits.'' Since 2010, the Community has used its entitlement 
to Colorado River water that is delivered through the Central Arizona 
Project (``CAP Water'') to create over 1.5 million acre-feet of long-
term storage credits. In brief, the Community is ``banking'' its 
previously unused CAP Water in existing aquifers to earn ``long-term 
storage credits'' that may be used for future development. This 
inventive program provides security and economic development 
opportunities for both the Community and the region.
    In May 2019, the Community joined seven Colorado River basin states 
and other stakeholders in signing a series of agreements to implement 
the Colorado River Drought Contingency Plan. These agreements 
formalized the commitment of the Community, states, federal government, 
and other key stakeholders to take collaborative steps to protect and 
enhance the sustainability of the Colorado River and the estimated 40 
million people who rely on the Colorado River for their domestic, 
industrial, agriculturial, and infrastructure needs. The Drought 
Contingency Plan has been recognized by the U.S. Department of the 
Interior as the best path forward toward safeguarding the single most 
important water resource in the western United States. The Plan will 
address the heightened risk of severe water shortages and falling water 
levels due to drought conditions that have been exacerbated by climate 
change. The Community was key in not only protecting the Gila River 
Indian Community's water rights and water settlement, but in bringing 
solutions that were adopted by the State of Arizona, Arizona 
stakeholders, and federal partners. This historic agreement serves as 
an example of how all governments--tribal, federal, and state--can work 
in collaboration to address the impacts of climate action throughout 
the United States.
Blue Lake Rancheria's Efforts to Zero Greenhouse Gas Emissions
    Blue Lake Rancheria (``Tribe'') is a federally recognized tribe 
located in Humboldt County, California. The Tribe began climate action 
planning in 2008. Since then, it has made tremendous advances in 
reducing greenhouse gases (GHGs) as well as community resiliency. In 
particular, the Tribe partnered with Schatz Energy Research Center and 
Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E) to develop a $6.3 million ``low-carbon 
community micro-grid.'' The grid provides energy to the Tribe's 
critical infrastructure, including the government offices, enterprises 
(hotel casino, events center, and restaurants) and a certified Red 
Cross shelter. Each year the Tribe saves approximately $200,000 in 
energy costs and reduces emissions by approximately 195 metric tons. 
Blue Lake Rancheria is committed to reducing its greenhouse gas 
emissions to zero by 2030.
The Karuk Tribe and Using Prescribed Burns to Combat Wildfire Damages
    The Karuk Tribe lives and manages one million acres of their 
traditional territory located along the Klamath and Salmon Rivers in 
northern California. Decades of non-Native land use has severely 
impacted the Karuk people's access to cultural, ceremonial, social, and 
traditional food resources and practices. The region's changing 
climate--undoubtedly most impacted by the region's wildfires--has only 
heightened these effects, which caused the Karuk to experience a 
decline in access to key food resources, including salmon, willow, 
acorns, huckleberries, and others.
    In order to adapt to the changing climate, the Karuk Tribe decided 
to return back to their traditional wildfire management systems, where 
the Tribe maintained the time-tested tradition of prescribed fire 
burning as a climate adaptation tool. Since 2009, the Tribe has 
published over five eco-management plans and several reports that 
address the social, physical, and climate changes of their environment 
and the long-term effects the Karuk people would be facing if their 
traditional ecological practices were removed from land management 
practices. In 2016, the Tribe co-authored a report entitled ``Retaining 
Knowledge Sovereignty,'' \1\ which highlights the current cultural and 
institutional barriers for the sovereignty of traditional ecological 
knowledge and provides a range of policy recommendations that would 
elevate tribal co-management practices on the local, state and federal 
levels.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ See the Karuk Tribal Climate Change Project's Retaining 
Knowledge Sovereignty Report, 2016. (https://
karuktribeclimatechangeprojects.com/retaining-knowledge-sovereignty/).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Today, the Karuk Tribe carries out a meaningful collaboration with 
the U.S. Forest Service, the State of California, the Klamath National 
Forest, and the Six Rivers National Forest that upholds and honors the 
practice of prescribed fire burning to co-manage within the Klamath and 
Six Rivers National forestlands. Backed with federal, state, and local 
support, the Karuk's fire burning practices have helped the Tribe 
restore the Klamath forestlands' food resources and helped restore the 
Klamath region to a safe environmental health standard that promotes 
tribal usage of traditional resources and ceremonial practices.
    These examples listed above exemplify the need for Tribal Nations 
to have partners in climate mitigation and resilience efforts. Congress 
plays a critical role, not only as a convener, but also to support and 
incentivize intergovernmental initiatives between tribal governments 
and federal, state, and local governments as well as other interested 
stakeholders. This means acknowledging Tribal Nations as true Nation-
to-Nation partners in developing climate strategies, and that this 
Committee and other bodies of Congress must enact or strengthen laws 
and policies that incorporate and defer to Tribal Nations as primary 
climate change decision-makers, with the ability to include Indigenous 
traditional ecological knowledge in developing environmental 
sustainability solutions. Additionally, Congress must support efforts 
for tribal co-management of federal lands that have cultural or 
historic significance to Tribal Nations. Tribal Nations can be strong 
partners in land management to ensure environmental sustainability and 
mitigation of climate impacts. All of these solutions require adequate 
funding--not just now, but over the long run--so that Tribal Nations 
can continue to develop, implement, and sustain their tribal climate 
strategies.
Funding for Tribal Climate Change Mitigation and Resiliency Efforts
    Tribal Nations are sovereign entities who are on the front lines of 
combating climate change and supporting environmental sustainability, 
and must have their own direct funding sources and should be given 
governmental parity in federal funding programs. However, Tribal 
Nations face several hurdles in accessing federal climate change 
programs, including:

    1.  Competitive grant-making, which disadvantages Tribal Nations by 
requiring them to compete with other states, corporate entities, and 
non-profits for limited funding pools;
    2.  Requiring Tribal Nations to provide matching funds for federal 
funding programs, which is a barrier to access that is consistently 
reported; \2\ and
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ See e.g. National Congress of American Indians Resolution #PHX-
08-039, ``Oppose SAMHSA Matching Fund Requirements.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    3.  Several federal climate change funding programs directly pass 
through state entities or partners, requiring Tribal Nations to obtain 
climate change resilience and mitigation funding through state 
requirements and management systems. The process to receive funding 
should be directly between Tribal Nations and federal entities.

    This Committee and others can address some of these funding 
barriers and directly support tribally determined climate resilience 
and mitigation projects by implementing some Congressional climate 
responses, including:

    1.  Ensuring governmental parity in climate change funding (e.g. 
any federal assistance provided to state and local governments should 
also be provided to tribal governments);
    2.  Protecting and expanding financing for federal climate change 
funding that directly benefits tribal climate resilience and mitigation 
strategies. For example, the Department of the Interior (DOI) houses 
the Tribal Climate Resiliency Program, a funding entity that has funded 
over 700 awards to Tribal Nations totaling more than $60 million to 
assist with adaptation and implementation planning goals.\3\ Congress 
and DOI should expand the current Tribal Climate Resiliency Program 
from single- or two-year funding to include longer, multi-year funding 
options. The option for multi-year grant funding is crucial for Tribal 
Nations to enhance their climate change program capacity without 
exhausting grant management and application resources and technical 
assistance; and
    3.  Implementing full and meaningful consultation processes with 
Tribal Nations in federal funding planning convenings to ensure federal 
funding programs are accessible to Tribal Nations (e.g. addressing 
matching funds or grant management issues prior to implementation).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ See the Department of the Interior's Climate Action Plan, 2021.

    By implementing this non-exhaustive list of Congressional 
responses, accessibility to climate change funding programs can become 
more available for Tribal Nations seeking to apply so that they may 
continue to implement their own climate change strategies and planning 
processes.
Funding for Tribal Relocation and Protect-in-Place Efforts
    In 2020, DOI's Bureau of Indian Affairs released an 
``Infrastructure Needs Report of Tribal Nations and Alaska Native 
Villages in Process of Relocating as a Result of Climate Change''. This 
Report's initial analyses estimate the costs of unmet infrastructure 
needs due to relocation at almost $5 billion for Tribal Nations in the 
contiguous 48 states ($1.365 billion) and for Alaska Native Villages 
($3.45 billion over the next 50 years).\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ See the Department of the Interior's Informational Report: The 
Unmet Infrastructure Needs of Tribal Communities and Alaska Native 
Villages in Process of Relocating to Higher Ground as a Result of 
Climate Change, May 2020.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    NCAI applauds and greatly appreciates the work of all members of 
this Committee that advanced the historic Infrastructure Investment and 
Jobs Act. This bill includes approximately $15 billion for tribal 
specific funding, with $130 million set-aside for tribal community 
relocation projects. This tribal relocation set-aside funding is 
incredibly timely and significant, but as this Committee reported in 
2020, the federal government has not established a federal tribal 
relocation program or a relocation framework for the development and 
implementation of adaptation planning for Tribal Nations and Indigenous 
communities.\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ See Solving the Climate Crisis, Select Committee on the Climate 
Crisis, Majority Report, June 2020. (https://
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
climatecrisis.house.gov/sites/climatecrisis.house.gov/files/
Climate%20Crisis%20Action%20Plan.pdf).
    With the implementation of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs 
Act on the horizon, it is critical that members of this Committee and 
other members of Congress take the following actions:

    1.  Create a Federal Relocation Framework for the development and 
implementation of the $130 million tribal community relocation fund in 
the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act;
    2.  Promote the need for full and meaningful consultation on the 
development of a Tribal Community Relocation Program at DOI to ensure 
tribal priorities on relocation funding are identified and the 
priorities are incorporated into the Program's implementation process;
    3.  Assist in developing a tribal community relocation fund that 
does not require a competitive grant making process placing one Tribal 
Nation against another Tribal Nation; and
    4.  Advocate for increased appropriations and other financing 
opportunities that would allow for a tribal community relocation fund 
to be established and sustained at DOI, especially after the initial 
$130 million investment has been depleted.

    This moment in Congress and the Administration demands and needs 
tribal leadership on climate change. Tribal Nations find themselves a 
pivotal juncture--severely challenged by environmental degradation and 
climate-induced infrastructure damages, simultaneously presented with 
significantly expanded opportunities to exercise tribal self-
determination, and receiving once-in-a-lifetime infusions of federal 
resources. These efforts should shift from being historic to being the 
norm in supporting tribal governments and addressing the climate 
crisis. This moment requires us to elevate and strengthen the voices of 
tribal leaders to coordinate, collaborate, and participate in local, 
national, and international adaptation and sustainability strategy 
planning.
Engagement with International Indigenous Climate Leadership
    In order to address environmental sustainability and climate change 
impacts, we must also look to engage with partners around the globe. 
Many Tribal Nations, tribal organizations, including NCAI are long 
standing international leaders in climate change. NCAI has participated 
in the most significant international body addressing climate change, 
the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), 
since at least 2015. NCAI was notably present and active for the 
Conference of the Parties (COP) 21 in Paris, where the landmark Paris 
Agreement was negotiated. While not party to this international treaty, 
which established a framework for climate change mitigation, 
adaptation, and finance, Tribal Nations and NCAI continue to advocate 
for Indigenous rights and the inclusion of Indigenous-led solutions 
towards climate change. One of the highlights of our UNFCCC work is our 
active role in the International Indigenous Peoples Forum on Climate 
Change, which collectively advocates as a unified Indigenous voice at 
the UNFCCC. I have just returned from our most recent international 
advocacy work as I and our NCAI team attended the COP26 in Glasgow. 
There, Tribal Nations, NCAI, and international Indigenous 
organizations, gathered to make sure our needs and solutions were heard 
as the final article of the Paris Agreement, Article 6, was negotiated 
by the state parties. I am happy to report that on November 13th, 
Article 6 was adopted, with many of our positions included in the final 
text, including language on the rights of Indigenous peoples and an 
independent international grievance mechanism.
Conclusion
    Tribal Nations have nurtured, lived, and thrived on the lands of 
Turtle Island since time immemorial. Our cultures, traditions, 
lifestyles, communities, foods, treaty rights, and economies are 
inextricably linked to our ability to manage these natural resources. 
On behalf of NCAI, we are greatly appreciative of the Select 
Committee's time and interested in hearing, learning, and understanding 
tribal approaches to climate mitigation and resiliency. We look forward 
to continuing our work with all members of this Committee to develop 
and sustain long-term, time-tested strategies to address the climate 
crisis. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

    Ms. Castor. Well, thank you, President Sharp.
    And it was very apparent at the COP26 in Scotland the 
growing impact and influence of indigenous peoples from the 
United States but all across the globe. So we are going to talk 
a little bit more about that.
    Next, Chairman Baker, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

             STATEMENT OF THE HON. MELVIN J. BAKER

    Mr. Baker. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Good morning, 
Chairwoman Castor, Ranking Member Graves, and members of the 
select committee.
    My name is Melvin J. Baker. I am the elected Chairman of 
the Southern Ute Indian Tribal Council, the governing body of 
the Southern Ute Indian Tribe. Thank you for the opportunity to 
testify before you today on the Tribe's efforts to protect the 
environment by utilizing the Tribe's energy resources to 
support a broader mission around the energy transition and 
carbon neutrality.
    All modern economies require a reliable and affordable 
energy supply, and, in turn, energy development has an 
environmental impact. The fact is, we must embrace innovative 
ways of thinking to solve problems for our future generations.
    The environmental impact that is receiving significant 
attention today and is the subject of today's hearing is the 
effect of energy development on climate change. The challenges 
around the current trajectory of increasing CO2 
emissions in the Earth's atmosphere are real. We must work 
together globally to implement change that puts us all on the 
path to carbon neutrality so CO2 levels in the 
atmosphere don't continue to increase as a result of the human 
activities on Earth.
    We must also be mindful that, while we solve these 
challenges with climate change, it is not at the expense of 
other aspects of the environment or the standard of living we 
strive to provide to our Tribal members. We support a holistic 
approach to climate change by leveraging a natural resources 
niche region where energy is developed to reduce carbon 
emissions on Tribal lands.
    Within the United States and around the world, with many 
well-meaning ideas and proposals introduced nearly every day, 
we cannot allow policy changes to exclude technological 
advancements because they are not considered renewables, nor 
can we export carbon emissions from one area of the country to 
another or even to a different part of world, as our Earth has 
one atmosphere.
    A holistic approach to carbon emissions, delegation of 
Federal environmental programs, and project lifecycle 
environmental impacts require transformation of future business 
and energy development to address climate change and other 
environmental or cultural impacts. America remains the land of 
innovation and technology advancements, including methods to 
tame climate change in ways that do not result in deterioration 
of our material standard of living.
    One example of our Tribe managing energy resources on the 
reservation is our Methane Capture Project. Methane and 
CO2 naturally seep out of the ground on parts of the 
reservation where the Fruitland coal seam comes to the surface, 
also known as outcrops.
    From 2008 to 2018, the Tribe successfully implemented a 
project that included a collection system to capture these 
gases and allowed us to sell over 420,000 metric tons of carbon 
credits associated with the project. This was possible because 
personnel from our Tribal government, Tribal businesses, 
industry, and academia supported the project. We are now 
working on an enhanced version of this project with deployment 
of newer technology to increase the amount of methane captured.
    Another example of our Tribe partnering with others to 
provide solutions is our involvement in the Coyote Clean Power 
Project. Our partnership with 8Rivers Capital will pursue the 
development, construction, and operation of a NET Power plant 
that utilizes innovative technology to produce 284 megawatts of 
electricity from natural gas while capturing and storing 
CO2 emissions.
    NET Power continues to advance their technology towards 
commercial scale deployment. In fact, this portion of the 
testimony has been recently updated to highlight the critical 
milestone reached where the NET Power test facility in Texas 
has successfully delivered electricity onto the grid.
    The commercial-scale facility planned on the Southern Ute 
Indian Reservation will be the first of its kind and can 
provide carbon neutral baseload power to support a reliable 
grid as more coal-powered plants are retired and intermittent 
renewables are added.
    If Congress had not supported a renewable tax credit, solar 
and wind would not now make up to 10 to 15 percent of today's 
U.S. supply to the electrical grid. We encourage Congress to 
consider increasing the value of a carbon credit associated 
with 45Q legislation to expedite deployment of carbon capture 
infrastructure and new technologies that can be part of the 
future solution to a carbon neutral environment.
    The Tribe's history of environmental stewardship and energy 
development both on and off the reservation is vast and 
unparalleled. This includes development of one of the first 
utility-scale solar farms in southwest Colorado, the recovery 
of naturally venting methane, and other alternative projects 
such as biofuels.
    The Tribe is interested in pursuing projects that continue 
our long legacy of leadership, vision, and environmental 
stewardship by collaborating with stakeholders who share the 
same vision to develop and commercialize real-world solutions 
for the energy transition.
    Thank you for the time today to testify before you today 
and for your interest in the Southern Ute Indian Tribe. At this 
point, we would be happy to answer any questions you may have. 
And I do have some staff from our energy department in the room 
with me.
    So thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Baker follows:]

            Prepared Statement of Honorable Melvin J. Baker

              Chairman, Southern Ute Indian Tribal Council

                            On behalf of the

                       Southern Ute Indian Tribe

           Before the Select Committee on the Climate Crisis

                 United States House of Representatives

                                Hearing

  ``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom: Strategies for the Climate Crisis''

                    November 18, 2021, 9:30 a.m. EDT

                            Remote via WebEx

    Good morning Chairman Castor, Ranking Member Graves, and members of 
the Select Committee.
    My name is Melvin J. Baker. I am the elected Chairman of the 
Southern Ute Indian Tribal Council, the governing body of the Southern 
Ute Indian Tribe. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you 
today on the Tribe's efforts to protect the environment while utilizing 
the Tribe's energy resources to support a broader mission around the 
energy transition and carbon neutrality.
    The Southern Ute Indian Reservation consists of approximately 
700,000 acres of land located in southwestern Colorado. Approximately 
311,000 surface acres of that land is held in trust by the federal 
government for the benefit of the Tribe. The Tribe, with just under 
1,500 members, is a leader in Indian Country with a demonstrated and 
sterling record of foresight and business acumen. The Tribe is the only 
Indian tribe in the nation with a AAA+ credit rating, which was earned 
through years of steady governance and successful and prudent business 
transactions. Though the Tribe has a diversified portfolio, energy 
development--predominantly natural gas--remains a key component of the 
Tribe's strategy.
    As we move forward to acknowledge the science behind the need for 
energy transition, nearly every aspect of our lives involves energy in 
some way. When the federal government placed the Mouache and Capote 
bands of Ute people on a reservation, the resources beneath the soil, 
as well as the value of those resources, were unknown. With our 
traditional way of life forbidden, our people were forced to find new 
ways to survive. When the Homestead Act opened ``vacant'' tribal lands 
to settlers, our Reservation became checkerboarded and soon we began 
seeing our neighbors' profit from resource development. The impeccable 
timing of our tribal leaders and their intuitive decision making 
allowed the Tribe to sit in the driver's seat toward self-
determination. However, the Tribe has never forgotten our traditional 
responsibility as caretakers for mother earth and all she provides. The 
Tribe's environmental management remains a priority through production 
of tribal resources. The traditional territory for Ute people covered 
the entire State of Colorado and into neighboring states, and the Tribe 
has zero intention of destroying the small tract of land that remains 
of our traditional homeland for generations yet to come.
    All modern economies require a reliable and affordable energy 
supply, and, in turn, energy development has an environmental impact. 
The fact is we must embrace innovative ways of thinking to solve 
problems for our future generations. The environmental impact that is 
receiving significant attention today and is the subject of today's 
hearing is the effect of energy development on climate change. The 
challenges around the current trajectory of increasing CO2 
emissions in the earth's atmosphere are real. We must work together 
globally to implement change that puts us all on a path to carbon 
neutrality so CO2 levels in the atmosphere don't continue to 
increase as a result of human activities on earth. We must also be 
mindful that while we solve the challenges with climate change, it is 
not to the detriment of other aspects of the environment or the 
standard of living we strive to provide to our tribal members
    We support a holistic approach to climate change by leveraging the 
natural resources in each region where energy is developed to reduce 
carbon emissions on Tribal lands, within the United States, and around 
the world. With many well-meaning ideas and proposals being introduced 
nearly every day, we cannot allow policy changes to exclude 
technological advancements because they are not considered 
``renewables.'' Nor can we export carbon emissions from one area of the 
country to another, or even to a different part of the world, as our 
earth only has one atmosphere. A holistic approach to carbon emissions, 
delegation of federal environmental programs, and project lifecycle 
environmental impacts require transformation of future business and 
energy development to address climate change and other environmental or 
cultural impacts.
    America remains the land of technological innovation in all fields, 
including ways to tame climate change in ways that do not result in a 
deterioration of our material standard of living.
    One example of our Tribe managing our energy resources on the 
Reservation is our Methane Capture Project. Methane and CO2 
naturally seep out of the ground on parts of the Reservation where the 
Fruitland Coal seam comes to the surface, also known as ``outcrops.'' 
From 2008-2018, the Tribe successfully implemented a pilot project that 
included a collection system to capture these gases and allowed us to 
sell over 420,000 metric tons of carbon credits associated with the 
project. This was possible because personnel from our tribal 
government, tribal businesses, industry, and academia supported the 
project in various ways. We are now working on an enhanced version of 
this project with deployment of newer technology to increase the amount 
of methane captured. Our tribal entities leading the project benefit 
from support from the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs, congressional 
personnel, industry, and academia. Even though the characteristics of 
the gas naturally venting are similar to ``Renewable Gas'' from 
landfills, collection of this gas is not treated legislatively the same 
as renewable gas. We urge Congress to consider updating federal 
legislation, revising existing tax laws, to allow ``Renewable Gas'' to 
include naturally venting methane.
    Another example of our Tribe partnering with others to provide 
solutions to the challenges we face today is our involvement in the 
Coyote Clean Power Project with 8Rivers Capital, LLC, to pursue the 
development, construction and operation of a NET Power plant that 
utilizes innovative technology to produce 284 MW of electricity from 
natural gas while capturing and storing all of the resulting 
CO2 emissions. This first of its kind facility can provide 
carbon neutral baseload power to support a reliable grid as more coal 
power plants are retired, intermittent renewables are added, and 
electricity demand increases due to an increase in electric vehicle 
deployment. Commercial deployment of new, innovative technologies has 
challenges during early stages of development and Congress has a 
history of supporting innovative technology development as demonstrated 
through the Investment Tax Credit (``ITC'') and Production Tax Credit 
(``PTC'') for solar and wind energy. If Congress had not supported ITC 
and PTC tax credits, solar and wind would not now make up 10-15% of 
today's U.S. supply to the electrical grid. We encourage Congress to 
consider increasing the value of a carbon credit associated with 
Internal Revenue Code section 45Q legislation to expedite deployment of 
carbon capture infrastructure and new technologies that can be part of 
the future solution to a carbon neutral energy environment.
    Climate change is complex and implementing meaningful change to the 
current trajectory of carbon emissions requires collaboration between 
governments, academia, industry, and NGOs to leverage expertise from 
scientists, engineers, environmentalists, trade workers, and 
economists. The Tribe's history with environmental stewardship and 
energy development both on and off the Reservation is vast and 
unparalleled. This includes development of one of the first utility 
scale solar farms in Southwest Colorado, the recovery of over 420,000 
metric tons of CO2 equivalent by capturing naturally venting 
methane, and other alternative projects such as biofuels. Participation 
in the Coyote Clean Power Project and the pursuit of enhanced capture 
of naturally venting methane along the Fruitland Outcrop will continue 
our long legacy of leadership, vision, and environmental stewardship 
while providing economic benefit and essential services to our 
membership. The Tribe has successfully owned, operated, and 
participated in numerous energy development opportunities and is 
interested in leading the way by collaborating with stakeholders who 
share the same vision to develop and commercialize real world solutions 
for the energy transition.
    Thank you for the time to testify before you today and for your 
interest in the Southern Ute Indian Tribe, and at this point would be 
happy to answer any questions you might have.

    Ms. Castor. Thank you, Chairman Baker.
    Next, we will go to Dr. Thornbrugh.
    You are recognized for 5 minutes.

               STATEMENT OF DR. CASEY THORNBRUGH

    Dr. Thornbrugh. [Speaking native language.] Good morning, 
Chair Castor, Ranking Member Graves, and committee members. 
Thank you for the opportunity to testify at today's hearing.
    [Speaking native language.] My name is Casey Thornbrugh, 
and I am a citizen of the National Wampanoag Tribe. I live on 
Cape Cod, Massachusetts, on the original homelands for those of 
us who call ourselves Wopanaak, also known as Wampanoag, the 
People of the First Light. It is important to acknowledge that 
several Tribal nations on the Atlantic seaboard refer to 
ourselves as ``People of the Morning,'' ``People of the Dawn.''
    USET is a nonprofit intertribal organization serving 33 
federally recognized Tribal nations from the northeastern 
woodlands, south to the Everglades, and across the Gulf of 
Mexico.
    Climate change will have lasting impacts on Tribal lands, 
seascapes, waters, and communities. As the first nations of 
this continent, Tribal nations have witnessed and adapted to 
changes in the climate that have occurred over millennia. 
However, Tribal nations now face a rapidly changing climate 
while working to protect the health and well-being of our 
communities, lands, and waters on a fraction of our original 
homelands.
    Since the start of the 20th century, the average annual 
temperature in the U.S. has increased between 1.2 and 1.8 
degrees Fahrenheit. However, northeastern areas of the USET 
region have observed an increase of 3 degrees. Although these 
may seem subtle, they are reflected in notable changes in 
ecosystems and weather patterns.
    Over the past hundred years, global sea levels have risen 7 
to 8 inches, and this has also been seen on the Atlantic coast 
in our region. However, with sinking land in coastal areas and 
damage to coastal wetlands, some areas in our region, 
especially in the Gulf, have seen sea level rise of 1 to 3 
feet. Future projections indicate that sea levels will rise 
another 1 to 4 feet, with an 8- to 11-foot rise possible by 
2100.
    My background shows a salt marsh which is one of the few 
places our Tribal nation can access to fish shellfish and 
practice our culture. A 1-foot sea level rise it could survive. 
An 8-foot sea level rise would put it under water.
    Specific changes in our region also include the Gulf of 
Maine as one of the fastest warming bodies of water in the 
world. Warm water marine species are showing up in the Gulf of 
Maine and staying longer in the summer. It is uncertain if the 
Gulf of Maine will remain suitable habitat for cold water 
species for future generations.
    And for Tribal nations, it is not just about species. They 
are our relations. We are culturally related. They are 
traditional foods. They are also the namesake of some of our 
Tribal nations and some of our clan kinship networks.
    In the Southeast, landfall of higher-category hurricanes 
has impacted the infrastructure and safety of USET Tribal 
nations. Tribal emergency response and public safety are 
increasingly having to respond and prepare for such events. 
Tribal nations across the USET region have experienced more 
extreme weather events in areas and during seasons for which 
they have been historically less frequent.
    Tribal nations are working to become more resilient to the 
impacts of climate change. Currently, there are over 60 climate 
change adaptation plans, with more to come. However, there are 
barriers to Tribal climate adaptation planning, such as 
competitive funding for Tribal climate resiliency projects.
    Also, the 2009 Carcieri Supreme Court decision challenges 
our ability to have lands placed into trust, even when those 
lands are on Tribal homelands and territories. Those Tribal 
nations may face difficulties if adaptation means relocating or 
reacquiring lands.
    With regard to relocation, such a term is profoundly 
sensitive for Tribal nations, given our experiences with forced 
relocation and removal from our homelands. It is understood 
that climate change impacts are going to require the movement 
of communities and infrastructure in some places. However, 
Tribal nations must be afforded the dignity and the means to 
move to preserve the well-being of our Nations, as well as our 
rights to our ancestral places, which must be maintained even 
if these places become submerged.
    USET supports the administration's new initiative elevating 
indigenous knowledge in Federal policy decisions. Tribal 
nations have lived sustainably in our ancestral homelands for 
countless generations, relying on our Traditional Ecological 
Knowledge, TEK. This has led to practical solutions improving 
forest management, wildlife corridors, and dealing with sea 
level rise. However, TEK must be respected and protected as 
Tribal proprietary knowledge. This is important because Tribal 
nations and cultures carry the responsibility of its 
application.
    In conclusion, it is important for the United States to 
meet its trust and treaty obligations to Tribal nations through 
ensuring accessible, long-term funding for Tribal climate 
change adaptation. Also critical is removing the barriers that 
Tribal nations face, while upholding our right to free, prior, 
and informed consent.
    [Speaking in native language.] I thank you all for your 
time and for this opportunity to testify before you today.
    [The statement of Dr. Thornbrugh follows:]

                   Testimony of Dr. Casey Thornbrugh

                    United South and Eastern Tribes

        Before the House Select Committee on the Climate Crisis

                            for the Hearing

  ``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom: Strategies for the Climate Crisis''

                           November 18, 2021

    Kuweeqasunumuw. Good morning, Chairwoman Castor, Ranking Member 
Graves, and Committee Members. Thank you for the invitation to testify 
at today's hearing. Nutusees Casey Thornbrugh kah nutomas Maseepeeut. 
My name is Casey Thornbrugh, and I am a citizen of the Mashpee 
Wampanoag Tribe. I live in Mashpee on Cape Cod Massachusetts on our 
original homelands and seascapes for those of us who call ourselves 
Wopanaak or ``Wampanoag'' the People of the First Light.
    I serve as the Program Manager for the Climate Change Program in 
the Office of Environmental Resource Management of United South and 
Eastern Tribes, also known as USET. Established in 1969, USET is a non-
profit, inter-Tribal organization serving 33 federally recognized 
Tribal Nations from the Northeastern Woodlands to the Everglades and 
across the Gulf of Mexico. USET is dedicated to enhancing the 
development of Tribal Nations, improving the capabilities of Tribal 
governments, and improving the quality of life for Indian people 
through a variety of technical and supportive programmatic services.
    I also serve as a Tribal Climate Science Liaison supported by the 
Bureau of Indian Affairs Tribal Climate Resilience Program, and I work 
with the Department of the Interior's Northeast and Southeast Climate 
Adaptation Science Centers. In these roles and through USET's Climate 
Change Program, we work to connect Tribal Nations with technical 
support and information to support Tribal resilience to the impacts of 
Climate Change.
    Climate Change will have lasting impacts on Tribal lands, 
seascapes, waters, and communities. As the First Nations of this 
continent, Tribal Nations have witnessed and adapted to glacial 
retreats, sea level rise, and changes in the climate that have occurred 
over thousands of years. However, Tribal Nations are now contending 
with a rapidly changing climate, one that is human-induced by 
greenhouse gas emissions and changing not over thousands of years, but 
over decades. And we are forced to mitigate and adapt to Climate Change 
while trying to protect the health and wellbeing of our communities, 
lands, and waters on a fraction of our original homelands.
    Since the start of 20th century, the average annual temperature in 
the U.S. has increased between 1.2-1.8+ degrees Fahrenheit (Vose et 
al., 2017). However, northeastern areas of the USET region have 
observed an increase of 3.0+ degrees Fahrenheit (Dupigny-Giroux et al., 
2018). If the rates of greenhouse gas emissions remain at a ``business-
as-usual scenario'' temperature increases will range from 6-12+F by the 
year 2100 (Vose et al., 2017). However, should global greenhouse gas 
emissions be reduced, the average temperature increase could be less, 
and at 3-7+F by the year 2100 (Vose et al., 2017). Over the past 100 
years, global sea levels have risen 7-8 inches (Sweet et al., 2017), 
and this has also been observed on the Atlantic coast in the USET 
region (Fernandez, 2015). However, with sinking land in coastal areas 
(subsidence) and damage to coastal wetlands from dredging and unnatural 
canals, some areas in our USET region, especially in the Gulf, have 
observed a sea level rise of 1-3 feet (Carter et al., 2017). Future 
projections indicate that sea levels will likely rise another 1-4 feet 
with an 8 to 11-foot sea level rise within the realm of possibility by 
2100 (Dupigny-Giroux et al., 2018).
South and Eastern Tribal Nations: A Historical Context
    Much of the current broad understanding of Tribal Nations and 
historical context within this country stems from the 19th century, 
when the United States and settlers expanded westward. Tribal Nations 
were forced to sign treaties, cede large tracts of land, and reside on 
reservations yet were promised autonomy and support from the federal 
government to manage natural resources, education, and health care. 
Tribal Nations within the USET region also signed treaties and were 
forced to cede lands. However, many USET Member Tribal Nations are 
``First Contact Nations'' and faced 17th and 18th-century local 
colonial governments and distant European nations at the onset of 
colonization of North America.
    During the 17th and 18th centuries, colonial wars and disease also 
decimated Indigenous populations. Within decades after establishment of 
the United States, a federal policy of removal was adopted, and many 
Tribal Nations whose aboriginal territories were in the Appalachians, 
Southeast, and Midwest were forcibly removed to western territories. 
For example, the ``1830 Indian Removal Act'' split entire Tribal 
Nations and families and forced tens of thousands of Indigenous people 
to reservations in Oklahoma. Despite these removals some Tribal Nations 
(e.g. USET Tribal Nations) found ways to remain within our territories 
showing resolve and determination to remain within our original 
homelands.
    USET Tribal Nations have persevered despite colonization and 
federal policies of assimilation, termination and other events that 
have unfolded over the past 400 years. Despite disease, warfare, and 
removal, our Tribal Nations have persisted and continue to exhibit 
profound resilience. In environments considered harsh to European and 
American settlement such as the Gulf Coastal Bayous, the Everglades, 
the Appalachians, or the Northern Forests, Tribal Nations not only 
survived, but adapted and rebounded as communities and Nations. Tribal 
communities even integrated into more populated landscapes, have 
maintained self-governance and distinct cultural identities tied to 
cultural and traditional homelands and family kinship systems. The 20th 
century witnessed a rebound in population of Indigenous communities 
within the USET region and a resurgence of Tribal voices on a national 
platform to promote Tribal sovereignty and self-determination, 
management of natural resources on remaining Tribal lands that are now 
mere fractions of once held territories, and the restoration of Tribal 
lands lost to the colonies and early states.
Climate Change Impacts Exasperated by Dispossession of Tribal Nation 
        Homelands
    On average, Tribal Nations retain jurisdiction for approximately 
2.6% of our original Tribal homelands (Farrell et al., 2021). Although 
Tribal Nations across the United States have regained the management of 
natural resources for over 100 million acres of Tribal homelands, USET 
member Tribal Nations continue to have substantially smaller Tribal 
land bases from which to assert direct jurisdiction and management of 
natural resources, and Climate Change impacts to these vulnerable land 
bases pose serious threats to Tribal cultures and lifeways. Often, fish 
and wildlife, traditional foods, medicinal plants, and places of 
cultural significance, some of which may be outside of Tribal 
reservation or trust lands, are impacted by Climate Change. This means 
Tribal Nations must work with federal, state, and local jurisdictions 
to address Climate Change impacts on natural resources of cultural and 
economic significance beyond Tribal lands. At best, institutional 
barriers arise as the interests and management plans of non-Tribal 
jurisdictions often do not align with Tribal priorities or cultural 
values. At worst, Tribal Nations are not even included in local and 
regional plans that would have implications on our natural resources 
and areas of cultural significance.
    Ultimately, one of the greatest threats of Climate Change is the 
migration of species and shifting of ecosystems beyond Tribal homelands 
or even beyond Tribal regions, rendering the fixed political boundaries 
and territories of present-day homelands unconnected to long held 
traditional lifeways.
    Specific climate change impacts in the USET Region include the 
following:

          Temperature change has greatly impacted the timing of 
        species migration and reproduction across the USET region. For 
        example, the timing for fish that migrate from the sea to 
        freshwater rivers, such as salmon and herring, for spawning has 
        been changing.
          In the USET region, the Gulf of Maine is one of the 
        fastest warming bodies of water in the world. Warm water 
        species such as blue crabs, and black sea bass are showing up 
        in the Gulf of Maine and staying longer in the summer. It is 
        uncertain if the Gulf of Maine will remain suitable habitat for 
        cold water species such as cod, haddock, pollock, or Atlantic 
        salmon for future generations to come.
          The ranges of many culturally significant plant and 
        animal species are moving northward on land and in the oceans, 
        beyond the homelands of Tribal Nations while Tribal lands, due 
        to U.S. policies forced upon us such as reservations and 
        relocation, remain fixed. Further, invasive plant and animal 
        species that are favored by warmer conditions have moved into 
        ecosystems, thus competing with native species Tribal Nations 
        have relied upon for millennia.
          Certain species adapted to warmer climates are 
        showing up in more northern locations. For example, deer ticks 
        which are vectors for Lyme disease are now more common in the 
        Northeast woodlands. Warmer winters also allow moose ticks to 
        survive longer, plaguing the moose population.
          In our region, Tribal and state agencies are also 
        working to keep an invasive species, the Emerald Ash Borer 
        (EAB), at bay. EAB is an invasive insect that is a threat to 
        Brown Ash trees, a tree of cultural significance for Tribal 
        Nations of the Northeastern Woodlands.
          The winter season is getting shorter. Winter 
        snowpack, frozen ponds, rivers, and lakes are no longer a 
        guarantee each winter in the Northeast woodlands.
          In the Southeast, landfall of higher category 
        hurricanes has impacted the infrastructure and safety of USET 
        Tribal Nations. Tribal emergency response and public safety are 
        increasing having to respond and prepare for such events.
          Tribal Nations across the USET region have observed a 
        higher frequency of extreme weather events such as heat waves, 
        tropical storms, cold snaps, ice-jam flooding from early ice 
        thaws on rivers, and tornados in areas and during seasons for 
        which they have been historically less frequent.
          Rainfall is getting heavier throughout most of the 
        USET region, due to more moisture in a warmer atmosphere. 
        However, extended dry periods and droughts continue to occur as 
        well, and when they occur, they are more damaging under warmer 
        conditions.
          Sea level rise poses a greater risk to coastal 
        habitats and coastal communities from tidal and storm surge 
        flooding. Several of our USET Member Tribal Nation communities 
        are directly on the coast or in tidal areas susceptible to the 
        impacts of sea level rise.

    Many of the places that have significance to the cultural 
heritages, identities, and physical and mental health of Indigenous 
peoples from Tribal Nations within the USET region are located off 
Tribal reservation or trust lands. In many instances, places of 
cultural significance are now located within national parks, monuments, 
wildlife refuges, and seashores, or state parks, forests, or private 
lands. While Climate Change impacts the ecosystems, water, and 
landscapes of these places, our Tribal Nations continue to struggle 
with non-Tribal jurisdictions for access to these places for activities 
of cultural, spiritual, or ceremonial importance. USET member Tribal 
Nations and their citizens often find themselves in a position of 
having to request access to locations of cultural significance to 
partake in cultural activities they have been engaging in for thousands 
of years. Loss of access to these places impacts both the physical and 
mental health of Indigenous peoples and has been doing so for many 
years. Climate Change impacts do threaten sites, practices, and 
relationships with cultural, spiritual, or ceremonial importance which 
are foundational to Indigenous peoples, yet current barriers to access 
and a lack of a meaningful role in the Climate Change adaptation 
planning process of these areas compounds the issue.
Tribal-led Climate Change Adaptation and Institutional Barriers
    Tribal Nations are working to become more resilient to the impacts 
of Climate Change. As of this year, there are over 60 Tribal Climate 
Change adaptation plans and vulnerability assessments across Indian 
Country, with many more currently in development (University of Oregon, 
2021). Some of the first Tribal-led Climate Change adaptation plans 
within the United States came from Tribal Nations in the USET region.
    The impacts of the 2012 northeastern summer drought and heat wave, 
as well as coastal flooding from Hurricane Sandy, respectively, 
prompted the Saint Regis Mohawk Tribe and the Shinnecock Indian Nation 
to complete Climate Change adaptation plans for their homelands, 
waterways, and communities in 2013. Other Tribal Nations within the 
USET region have followed suit through exploring Climate Change 
adaptation options and opportunities to fund adaptation activities. 
Often, departments within Tribal Nations, such as natural resource or 
cultural preservation departments, take the lead, but not exclusively, 
as Tribal emergency management or economic development programs have 
also explored Climate Change adaptation options.
    Despite exceptional efforts toward Climate Change adaptation, there 
remain significant institutional barriers to Tribal Climate Change 
adaptation planning. The same institutional barriers of limited 
jurisdiction and access to traditional territory or places of cultural 
significance remain factors in Tribal Climate Change adaptation 
planning. Though there have been significant increases in federal 
funding toward Tribal Climate Change resilience, including through the 
recent infrastructure bill, funding for long-term Climate Change 
adaptation remains a challenge. Tribal Climate Change resiliency 
funding remains very ``project-based,'' and unsustainable for long-term 
Climate Change adaptation plan implementation.
    Furthermore, despite federal trust and treaty obligations, Tribal 
Nations con- 
tinue to be limited to competitive funding for Climate Change 
resiliency projects. 
This makes such funding inaccessible to Tribal Nations with limited 
grant pursuit staffing capacity, regardless of significant Climate 
Change impacts and concerns (ATNI, 2020). In addition, federal natural 
and cultural resources funding can be very sector-, species-, or place-
specific, whereas Tribal Nations are concerned about the health of our 
whole communities and environments. Many Tribal Nations are forced into 
the position of pursuing multiple grants and searching for funding from 
different sources with varying objectives required in order to address 
larger Climate Change impact on our homelands and communities. Federal 
funding for Climate Change adaptation is also at the whim of political 
power shifts in Congress and the White House. Opportunities available 
this year may not be available next, hobbling a consistent or long-term 
Climate Change adaption plan.
    Climate Change adaptation must also include placing lands into 
trust to provide communities safety from sea level rise and to provide 
Tribal Nations access to species of cultural importance whose ranges 
have shifted due to Climate Change. Tribal Nations also seek to restore 
our homelands to restore our jurisdiction so that we may care for and 
protect natural and cultural resources. In addition to extremely 
burdensome and lengthy federal processes to restore our homelands, the 
2009 Carcieri Supreme Court decision further challenges the ability of 
Tribal Nations to have lands taken into trust, even when those lands 
are on Tribal homelands and territories. Thus, if a location becomes 
uninhabitable or ecosystems with cultural significance shift due to 
Climate Change, Tribal Nations may face difficulties and opposition, if 
adaptation means relocating to and re-acquiring lands that provide 
access to cultural resources and safety from sea level rise.
    When it comes to Tribal Nation relocation, it cannot be overstated 
that such a term is profoundly sensitive for Tribal Nations, as we have 
had multiple experiences in U.S. history with forced or coerced 
relocation and removal of access to our homelands. It is understood 
that sea level rise, riverine erosion, and other Climate Change 
impacts, and worst-case scenario projections are going to require the 
movement of communities and infrastructure in some locations. Tribal 
Nations must be afforded the dignity and the means to move to places 
that will continue the health and well-being of our Nations and 
communities. However, our rights and access to our original homelands, 
waters, and coasts must be maintained and protected, even if these 
places become submerged.
Traditional Ecological Knowledge (TEK)
    USET acknowledges and supports the Biden Administration's 
commitment to elevating Indigenous Knowledge in federal policy 
decisions. This also represents a partial solution to management of 
public lands not held in trust. Tribal Nations, being the sovereign 
First Nations of this continent with thousands of years of experience, 
are in the position to be leaders and partnering Nations with the 
United States to address the Climate Crisis. Tribal Nations have lived 
sustainably in our ancestral homelands for countless generations, 
relying on our Indigenous Knowledge, also commonly referred to as 
Traditional Ecological Knowledge (TEK), a body of information built 
upon observations, experiences, and lessons derived from living in a 
sustainable manner with the natural environment. The application of TEK 
has also led to practical solutions improving forested management, 
wildlife corridors and dealing with sea level rise (Leonard, 2021). 
However, TEK must be respected and protected as Tribal proprietary 
knowledge, as Tribal Nations and cultures carry the responsibility of 
its application for the well-being of our communities, homelands, and 
seascapes.
Conclusion 
    Successful adaptation for USET member Tribal Nations will rely on 
use of Indigenous knowledge, resilient and robust social systems and 
protocols, and a commitment to principles of self-determination. 
However, it will also require additional action from the federal 
government to address the institutional barriers USET member Tribal 
Nations face today in adapting to Climate Change. Ultimately, it will 
be important for the United States to meet its trust and treaty 
obligations to Tribal Nations through ensuring accessible, flexible 
long-term funding for Tribal Climate Change adaptation. With regard to 
TEK, it will be important to uphold an approach of free, prior, and the 
informed consent of Tribal Nations when TEK is sought for local and 
regional Climate Change adaptation. Successful adaptation will also 
require respect for Tribal Nations to develop our own Climate Change 
adaptation frameworks and strategies that capture our Indigenous 
knowledge systems for resilience in the face of Climate Change 
(Leonard, 2021). Tribal Nations in the USET region and across the 
country have demonstrated commitment and resolve in protecting and 
restoring our homelands with proportionally less funding, lower 
staffing capacity, and fewer resources at hand. Competitive project-
based funding remains unsustainable for long-term Climate Change 
adaptation planning. Tribal Nations require support from our federal 
partners in the trust relationship to build long term Tribal department 
staff and program capacity to develop and implement adaptation plans to 
the long-term impacts Climate Change. USET acknowledges and supports 
the significant increase in Climate Resilience Funding in the current 
Infrastructure Bill and the Administration's commitment to elevating 
Indigenous Knowledge in federal policy. In accordance with trust and 
treaty obligations to support Tribal sovereignty, self-governance, and 
self-determination, we urge additional federal action and policy to 
support sustainable Tribal Climate Change adaptation planning and 
resilience to sustain our lifeways for generations to come.

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    Ms. Castor. Thank you, Dr. Thornbrugh.
    Next up, Ms. Thomas.
    You are recognized for 5 minutes. Welcome.

                   STATEMENT OF PILAR THOMAS

    Ms. Thomas. Good morning, Madam Chair, Ranking Member 
Graves, and honorable members of the committee. Thank you for 
the opportunity to provide my views on Indian Country's 
substantial opportunities to contribute to this nation's 
efforts, ambitious efforts, to reduce carbon to better prepare 
and adapt to the now too real impacts of climate change on 
Tribal communities.
    Certainly, coming on the heels of the now-enacted 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, this hearing is timely 
and important to identify the critical role the Federal 
Government can play and should play in supporting Indian 
Tribes, Alaska Native villages, and other indigenous 
communities, and the strategies and actions necessary to 
protect these vulnerable communities from the worst of these 
impacts.
    Let me start with the good news. According to a recent 
analysis by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in 2018, 
Indian Country has over 6 percent of the total technical and 
economically feasible renewable energy resources in the United 
States. And that is compared to having about 2 percent of the 
landmass. So, clearly, an outsized amount of resources that 
Tribes have, with respect to solar, wind, biomass, geothermal, 
and hydroelectric.
    Despite having almost 21,000 terawatt hours of potential 
generation capacity, which is more than enough power to power 
the whole United States multiple times over, there are only two 
commercial scale renewable energy projects operating on Indian 
lands.
    So Indian Country's clean energy resources can and should 
and, in fact, must be brought to bear on the United States' 
efforts to reduce its carbon emissions if the nation is going 
to succeed at meeting its commitments to future generations and 
the world in mitigating climate change.
    Furthermore, these resources can be brought to bear on 
Tribes' and Alaska Native villages' efforts to protect 
themselves from climate change through the use of these same 
resources in distributed energy projects, whether that is 
rooftop solar, community solar, microgrids, and as a way to 
enforce and reinforce energy self-sufficiency, energy 
sovereignty, but, almost more importantly from a climate change 
perspective, energy resiliency and reliability.
    But these goals can only be accomplished through mass 
deployment of these types of technologies. With the plummeting 
costs especially around solar and storage, Federal support, 
such as additional technical and financial assistance, can be 
more impactful and more meaningful.
    But while this Federal support is necessary, it is not 
sufficient. Leveraging these kind of resources can still be 
very expensive. Distributed energy projects, of course, while, 
again, we are reducing costs, the cost of storage is still 
relatively high. The cost of micro-grids is still relatively 
high. Even Blue Lake Rancheria, which President Sharp 
referenced in her testimony, the only Tribe with two actual 
working micro-grid facilities used for energy resiliency, were 
still multimillion-dollar projects.
    So the challenge for Tribes and the Federal Government is, 
how can we take advantage of other financing opportunities, 
public-private partnerships, to see more mass deployment of 
these efforts, of these types of technologies from an energy 
reliability standpoint? How do we focus on what would be 
critical infrastructure, especially schools, and hospitals? We 
saw how important it was, of course, to have robust public 
health systems in the last year and a half with COVID, how 
important it was to have robust water, wastewater, and other 
types of public health infrastructure, which, of course, cannot 
operate without energy. How do we protect government campuses, 
our Tribal enterprises, and fisheries and farms--everything 
that does, in fact, still require power and is the most 
vulnerable with respect to climate?
    A couple of key challenges that we still have and still 
remain is, from a community-scale perspective, a distributed 
energy perspective, is the exercise of Tribal sovereignty over 
that development. And so Congress and the Federal Government 
can really assist Tribes with promoting more interaction at the 
state level, promoting more Tribal sovereign authorities over 
the exercise of energy development, and providing more 
technical and financial resources.
    And so, with that, again, I thank you for your time, and I 
look forward to answering any questions you might have.
    [The statement of Ms. Thomas follows:]

                    Testimony \1\ of Pilar M. Thomas

                            Prepared for the

                 Select Committee on the Climate Crisis

                 United States House of Representatives

                                   on

  ``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom: Strategies for the Climate Crisis''

    Chair Kathy Castor and Ranking Member Graves, thank you for the 
opportunity to provide my views on Indian Country's substantial 
opportunities to contribute to the United States', President Biden's 
and state and local governments' ambitious carbon reduction goals and 
to better prepare and adapt to the now too real impacts of climate 
change on tribal communities. Coming on the heels of the now enacted 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, and on the verge of the 
(hopefully) soon to be passed Build Back Better Act, this hearing is 
timely and important to identify the critical role the federal 
government can play--and should play--in supporting Indian Tribes, 
Alaska Native villages, and other indigenous communities in the 
strategies and actions necessary to protect vulnerable communities from 
the worst of those impacts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The views expressed here are those of the witness, and do not 
necessarily reflect the views of the Firm or its clients. Some of this 
testimony is adapted from previous testimony before the 
House Energy and Commerce Committee on July 8, 2020. That testimony can 
be found at: https://energycommerce.house.gov/sites/
democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/files/documents/Testimony-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas-Tribal%20Communities%20Hearing_070820.pdf.
    In June 2020, the Select Committee issued its Majority Staff Report 
on ``Solving the Climate Crisis.'' That report included a section on 
partnering with Tribes and Indigenous Communities. I'm encouraged that 
the House and this Committee recognize the importance of renewable 
energy, energy efficiency and workforce development for Indian tribes, 
and the roles that tribes can, and should, play in the nation's clean 
energy future.

    Tribal Clean Energy Development Should be Unleashed to Achieve 
                    Climate Change Mitigation Goals

    According to the National Renewable Energy Laboratory's Techno-
Economic Renewable Energy Potential on Tribal Lands, published in 
2018,\2\ Indian Country has over 6% of the total technically and 
economically feasible renewable energy resources in the United States. 
A summary of the resources is shown in the following table:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy18osti/70807.pdf.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                             Generation
                                  Installed    Generation   Capacity-- %
     Resource / Technology         Capacity     Capacity      of United
                                                               States
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Solar PV                         6,035 GW     10,688 TWh     5.4%
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wind                             891 GW       7,701 TWh      8.3%
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Biomass                          542 MW       2 TWh          1.6%
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geothermal                       330 MW       228 thousand    .6%
                                               MWh
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hydroelectric                    21 GW        124 TWh       36.4%
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total                            9,063 GW     20,912 TWh     6.5%
------------------------------------------------------------------------

    With almost 21,000 TWh of generation capacity, there is enough 
energy potential to power the whole United States \3\ multiple times 
over. And yet, despite these immense clean and renewable energy 
resources, there are only two commercial scale renewable energy 
projects operating on Indian lands. Indian Country clean renewable 
energy resources can, should, and must be brought to bear on the United 
States' efforts to reduce carbon emissions if the nation is going to 
succeed at meeting its commitments to future generations and the world 
in mitigating climate change.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ According to the Energy Information Administration, the United 
States consumed 4 trillion kWh (4 TWh) in 2020.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Unfortunately, there are many obstacles remaining that need to be 
overcome if this contribution is to be unlocked. Those include:

    Access to transmission, transmission capacity and state siting 
processes. Access to the Bulk Transmission System and Wholesale Markets 
through ``middle grid'' development--and the capital necessary to build 
it--is necessary for Tribes to be able to access wholesale markets for 
electricity purchases or to sell power into the market.

    Access to off-takers, buyers, and markets. One way to expand access 
to markets is through leveraging corporate off-takers. According to 
several recent studies in 2017, private corporations entered into 
contracts to procure almost 2 GW of solar and wind power. Corporations 
are engaged in these direct procurement efforts for several reasons, 
including corporate sustainability goals, renewable energy commitments, 
climate change commitments, and economic benefits. Recently for 
example, over 1,500 United States companies--from Fortune 500 to small 
businesses--have committed to supporting the Paris Climate Accord. 
Corporate procurement is now one of the major drivers of new renewable 
energy deployments. These companies are prime partners for tribes that 
are still interested in commercial scale projects--generating and 
exporting renewable power off of the reservation. Commercial projects 
primarily benefit tribes through lease payments, development fees, 
taxes, and construction, operations and maintenance jobs. A typical 
commercial scale project requires an experienced developer, a tax 
equity investor (to monetize the federal tax credits), a willing 
lender, and a credit worthy off-taker. In the past, the off-taker has 
typically been the local utility. But, in many states, the ability to 
sell to the utility can be challenging at best. As more and more 
companies are devising ways to directly procure renewable power, tribes 
with good locations and plenty of renewable energy potential may have 
another advantage--as a minority supplier to a corporate direct user 
off-taker. Another benefit of working directly with a corporate off-
taker is that Tribes could use their substantial renewable energy 
resources to attract companies--especially those that are in energy 
intensive industries, or have renewable energy goals that cannot be met 
by local utilities--to locate on the reservations. This effort would 
require investment in energy infrastructure and human capital. And, it 
has the added benefit of bringing jobs to Indian reservations.

    Development support. Capacity building and development capital are 
still in short supply to assist tribes, tribal leaders and tribal staff 
with development-related activities for commercial scale renewable 
energy projects. While it is not rocket science, development activities 
are hard, complicated and expensive. Environmental review processes, 
market and financial analysis, transmission interconnection and 
studies--to name just a few major development activities--take time, 
money and staff power. Yet, there is little to no federal support for 
this critical (and fatal flaw) component of actually bringing projects 
to fruition.

    Inclusion in state and FERC planning efforts. FERC recently 
announced a transmission task force, which include 10 state utility 
commissioner representatives. But, not a single Indian Tribe 
representative sits on this important task force. If Tribes are going 
to participate in the clean energy economy, projects located on tribal 
lands will need access to transmission. And, transmission line projects 
that will bring clean energy resources to load centers will, in many 
instances, have to be routed through tribal lands.

    Inclusion in state energy regulatory decision-making. With the 
exception of California, no state public utility regulatory body has a 
tribal consultation policy or incorporates regular outreach to and 
input from Indian Tribes. So, while many states have increased their 
clean energy standards, none have done so with the renewable resources 
in Indian Country in mind.

    Complexity of deal structures and financing to monetize tax 
benefits. As long as federal tax incentives continue to drive the 
economics of renewable energy projects, complex deal structures will 
continue to be the hallmark of clean energy projects. This complexity 
further adds to the disincentives to include tribes in the development 
of projects.

    Triple sovereign regulatory jurisdiction. Virtually every project 
on Indian lands has to be approved in some way by all three 
sovereigns--tribes, the federal government and the state utility 
regulatory body. This adds further cost and complexity to developing 
and implementing projects on tribal lands.

       TRIBAL CLEAN ENERGY AND UTILITY DEVELOPMENT IS THE KEY TO

        ADAPTATION AND RESILIENCY IN THE FACE OF CLIMATE CHANGE

                                IMPACTS

    All Indian Tribes and Alaska Native villages are capable of 
implementing distributed energy resource projects that support energy 
self-sufficiency, energy sovereignty, and energy resiliency and 
reliability. These goals can be accomplished through mass deployment of 
community solar, distributed energy, storage, energy efficiency and 
microgrids or through tribal utility authorities. With plummeting costs 
of these technologies, federal support--such as technical and financial 
assistance--can be more impactful and more meaningful. The proposed 
increases in funding to USDA, DOE, Commerce (among others) through the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and increased appropriations 
will go a longer way in supporting project development and 
implementation. But, while this federal support is necessary, it is not 
sufficient.
    Leveraging clean energy resources through the implementation of 
community solar, distributed energy, microgrids and energy efficiency 
projects as climate resiliency tools is imperative for Indian Tribes 
and Alaska Native villages. Lower costs of solar, wind and storage have 
made distributed energy projects more economically feasible. 
Distributed energy projects can include rooftop solar, small wind, and 
community scale solar or wind up to 5-10 MW. The key is that the 
project is located in the electricity distribution system and is 
intended to be used directly by a single or multiple buildings (or 
homes). The primary benefits of a distributed energy project are to 
reduce the carbon footprint, save money (by offsetting the amount of 
power purchased from your utility), create jobs, and increase 
resiliency and reliability (protection from natural and man-made risks 
to big grid failure). There are still technological challenges with 
integrating intermittent renewables into the distribution system. And 
utilities are very concerned about the economic impacts on their 
business model as more people and companies deploy distributed energy 
projects. But, a recent study of utility executives in 2017 reveals 
that at least 60% of them expect distributed energy projects to 
continue to proliferate and their utilities will have to obtain the 
necessary expertise and technology to integrate those projects with 
minimal disruption to the distribution system.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ Accenture Consulting, ``Power Surge Ahead: How Distribution 
Utilities Can Get Smart with Distributed Generation'' (2017).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Almost all of the tribal renewable energy projects deployed in the 
last 5 years have been distributed energy projects. Several tribes have 
deployed 1-3 MW systems, with many also deploying rooftop solar on 
tribal member homes. These projects have generally been limited in size 
due to the various federal grant programs. But, many more tribes can, 
and should be, exploring larger ``community scale'' projects: projects 
that are between 5-30 MWs that can power critical infrastructure, such 
as schools, hospitals and health care, public safety, government 
campuses, tribal enterprises, wastewater treatment, fisheries, farms, 
and tribal housing. These projects are typically too costly for the 
federal grant programs but are ripe for public-private partnerships to 
leverage tax credits that will reduce the cost to construct (and thus 
the cost of power).
    The start-up of tribal-owned electric utilities has accelerated in 
the last decade primarily due to feasibility study financial assistance 
from the Department of the Interior and technical assistance from the 
Department of Energy. Tribes are learning the about the major economic 
benefits of tribal electric utility ownership and operation which 
include, but are not limited to:

          Tribal sovereignty, energy self-sufficiency and 
        control over the source of the tribe's electricity
          Cost reduction and management of electricity costs
          Revenue generation and job creation

    Through a tribal utility, tribes can reduce their dependence on 
fossil fuel electricity (such as coal and natural gas), increase their 
use of renewable energy and distributed energy resources, and reduce 
electricity costs through the acquisition of electricity of their 
choosing. Furthermore, a tribal utility can be a vehicle for developing 
tribal renewable energy resources for both on-reservation and off-
reservation use. This provides the tribe with a greater degree of 
control over the development of those energy resources, while 
maintaining a separation of effort between the tribal government and 
the tribal utility's enterprise efforts.
    In addition, a tribal utility can control its electricity costs 
through access to the wholesale electricity market. As regulated 
utilities and rural electric cooperatives continue to increase retail 
rates, the wholesale cost of power has stayed relatively flat. 
Furthermore, tribes that are serviced by incumbent utilities--whether 
investor owned, rural electric cooperative, or a public power company--
lack control over both the source of power and the price they pay for 
power. A tribal utility can directly access the wholesale market, or 
negotiate for long term electricity contracts, that will most likely 
result in lower power costs for the tribal government, enterprises, and 
tribal members who live on the reservation.
    Moreover, instead of making payments to outside utilities, the 
tribal government, enterprises and members will make payments instead 
to the tribal utility. These revenues would go directly to a tribal 
entity that is more responsive to the tribal community. The revenues 
will also go towards electricity procurement, operations and 
maintenance of the electricity system and reinvestment into the 
community. In addition to energy choice, the tribal utility will have 
more flexibility in operations and customer service.
    Lastly, the tribal utility will result in funds and jobs remaining 
in the tribal community. Tribal utilities can promote tribal member 
workforce development and job creation through the operations and 
maintenance of the utility. Depending on the size of the reservation, 
the energy system, and the number of facilities to be serviced, there 
can be dozens of new jobs for tribal members. If the tribal utility 
makes the determination that it can produce its own electricity--such 
as through distributed energy systems like community solar, wind, or 
small natural gas generation--the construction and operation of those 
types of projects will result in further job creation.
    Notwithstanding all these potential benefits of tribal electric 
utility ownership, almost no tribal utility is vertically integrated--
that is, they do not produce or generate their own electricity. Tribal 
utilities continue to operate as distribution utilities only and import 
all the electricity used within the utilities' service area. Most 
electric power for tribal utilities comes from the federal power 
marketing authorities (primarily Western Area Power Administration and 
Bonneville Power Administration), with additional power coming from 
wholesale power markets or bi-lateral power purchase agreements.

    ADDITIONAL POLICY SUPPORT FOR TRIBAL CLEAN ENERGY OPPORTUNITIES

    Additional policy support to help move the needle for Indian Tribes 
and Alaska Native villages to take full control of their clean energy 
resources to support their climate adaptation and resiliency goals and 
implementation actions include support for, among others:

          The exercise of tribal sovereign authority over 
        energy services and development on tribal lands. For the most 
        part, tribal energy development is dependent on state 
        electricity policy and regulatory regimes through the state's 
        jurisdiction over and regulation of utility companies that 
        serve tribal lands. If tribes want to develop and use their own 
        clean energy resources, they have to comply with state policies 
        and regulations--tribal energy policy is cabined by state 
        energy policy.
             Federal agencies, such as the Bureau of Indian Affairs and 
        the Environmental Protection Agency, can also support the full 
        exercise of tribal sovereign authorities through the promotion 
        and technical support for tribes to take advantage of HEARTH 
        Act (25 USC Sec. 415(h)) and Tribal Energy Resource Agreements 
        (25 USC Sec. 3504) for leasing and other land agreements and 
        ``Treatment as State'' status for Clean Air Act (42 USC 
        Sec. 7601(d)(2)(B)) and Clean Water Act (33 USC 
        Sec. 1377(e)(2)) permitting.

          Specific financial and technical assistance to tribes 
        for tribal energy utility formation and operations to give 
        Indian Tribes the ability to control energy costs, create jobs, 
        control energy sources, and keep revenues within the Tribe. For 
        example, many of the grid resiliency programs enacted in the 
        recent American Energy Act (PL 116-260, Div. Z) and 
        Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (PL 117-58) include 
        tribes, but it is not clear that tribal utilities are eligible 
        for these financial assistance programs. The Department of 
        Energy should be encouraged to conduct specific outreach and 
        program development geared towards the unique aspects of 
        tribal-owned utilities.

          Tribal--incumbent utility partnerships to leverage 
        federal support for infrastructure investment and economic 
        viability. Grid modernization is expensive, but necessary to 
        improve grid performance, integrate distributed energy and 
        storage, or otherwise improve grid resiliency and reliability. 
        Most tribes will not be able--or want to--start up tribal owned 
        and operated electric utilities. The Department of Energy could 
        leverage its relationship with incumbent utilities and utility 
        regulators to improve interactions between tribes and their 
        incumbent utilities and to provide additional financial and 
        technical assistance support for tribal-incumbent utility 
        partnerships to develop clean energy infrastructure on tribal 
        lands and in tribal communities.

          Redefine the energy transition challenge. One major 
        challenge with thinking about the energy transition in Indian 
        Country is the very limited way in which this term is used. 
        While it is no doubt important to provide support and 
        assistance to fossil fuel tribes--those that have energy 
        economies based on coal, oil and gas--there is a broader issue 
        with the energy customer--those that use energy services. For 
        example, as the ``electrification'' efforts escalate to reduce 
        carbon emissions, retrofitting tribal government buildings, 
        housing, and enterprise facilities and change out vehicles will 
        be expensive and time-consuming. There are currently no federal 
        programs to support electrification in Indian Country. One 
        tribe in Minnesota recently received a substantial state grant 
        for a ``net zero carbon emission'' project to reduce carbon 
        emissions across the whole tribal community. The key effort in 
        this will be to electrify the building stock, replacing natural 
        gas and propane heat with electricity.

          Deployment of distributed energy resources and 
        upgraded distribution grids to accommodate the transition to 
        electrification and carbon emission reductions. More states and 
        local governments are developing low-income and disadvantaged 
        communities programs to support these aspects of energy 
        transition and climate resiliency efforts. But, very few are 
        incorporating tribal communities into these efforts. Federal 
        support will be necessary to step into this gap to ensure 
        tribal communities are not left behind in the broader 
        electrification, carbon reduction and climate resiliency 
        efforts leveraging distributed clean energy resources across 
        the country.

    Thank you again for the opportunity to provide this written 
testimony and information to the Select Committee on the Climate 
Crisis. I look forward to answering any further questions from the 
members.

    Ms. Castor. Well, thank you very much.
    And thanks to all of the witnesses for their very 
insightful testimony. And thank you for getting up early, for 
our witnesses from the West Coast especially.
    I will recognize myself for 5 minutes to kick off the 
questioning.
    Well, all of the witnesses have really highlighted the 
enormous opportunities that clean renewable energy brings to 
Tribal lands and in Tribes and to all of us across this 
country. What I have heard from you is that clean and renewable 
energy will create jobs, it will lower cost, it will clean up 
the air, it will reduce pollution, and provide health benefits 
in areas of the country that really need it.
    So, President Sharp, you are a leader in this. What do we 
need to do in Tribal consultation to really bring these 
opportunities to indigenous peoples across this country?
    Ms. Sharp. Yes, I really appreciate--I know you have a 
question, but--your remarks in the opening statement. The issue 
of free, prior, and informed consent and the ability for Tribal 
nations to have a decisive say, that is something that I have 
started to advocate in advance as a policy in which nobody has 
to give that to us. We are not seeking FPIC from state agencies 
and Federal agencies. The idea that a Tribal nation, like any 
other governmental body, should have a decisive say over our 
land, territories, and resources is an international standard 
that transcends national borders.
    And for Tribal nations to be able to seize the 
opportunities that Pilar had mentioned, when you look at the 
opportunity that we have within Indian Country, there is no 
question that Tribal nations, in assisting and partnering with 
the United States to unleash and unlock the energy potential 
within this country, we should have a decisive say.
    And so it is critically important that, as we build out our 
climate strategies, that Tribal nations are able to exercise 
the full spectrum of governmental powers, authorities, and 
decision making.
    Ms. Castor. Ms. Thomas, you make a very compelling point 
about clean energy development being a key part of adaptation 
and resilience and economic opportunity for Tribal nations. And 
I see investments in community solar and micro-grids building 
climate resilience across the country but also providing those 
enormous, as you called, outsized economic opportunities.
    Could you give us a few examples or two of clean energy 
projects in Tribal communities and the broader impacts they are 
having?
    Ms. Thomas. Yes. So, again, you know, the Blue Lake 
Rancheria, which I think is in Representative Huffman's 
district, there are--thankfully, over the last few years or so, 
there has been a real shift in Federal financing for these 
smaller, community scale distributed energy projects, because 
they provide lots of different benefits to Tribes. One, first 
and foremost, jobs, right? These are the kind--you can't 
outsource these jobs, and you can't automate these jobs. So 
they provide jobs for Tribal members.
    They provide added economic benefit of reducing energy 
costs, right? If I offset that power cost, I don't pay the 
utility, I get to keep those funds in the community and 
reinvest them in the Tribal community. If it is operated by a 
Tribal utility, again, I am creating more jobs through that 
Tribal utility.
    And you see this around the whole country. There has been a 
very broad geographic effort, from Washington State with the 
Spokane Tribe, down to the Seminole Tribe in Florida, and 
everywhere in between, a very robust diversification of 
renewable energy projects at the smaller scale level. And that 
is because everybody can do smaller scale renewable energy 
projects.
    And so that has been critical. We have seen lots of new 
Tribes come out with energy economy opportunities for job 
training and putting Tribal members to work in installing solar 
panels and doing energy efficiency.
    We have to operate and maintain those systems, so these are 
sustainable jobs. These aren't just 600 people building a big 
solar project and then, as I say, three guys and a bottle of 
Windex taking care of it later. So there is----
    Ms. Castor. And, in fact, Chairman Baker highlighted that 
the Southern Ute have developed utility-scale solar that has 
reduced their dependence on fossil fuel.
    So, Chairman Baker, why did you all make the decision to 
diversify your energy resources?
    And, Chairman, I have run out of time, so let's--we will be 
sure to come back to you, so we will give you some time to 
think about your answer on that. And I will have to go to 
Ranking Member Graves for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Baker. Okay. Thank you.
    Mr. Graves. And, Chairman Baker, I think you were on mute 
as well.
    Mr. Baker. Yes, I was.
    Mr. Graves. Hey, thanks again to all of you for 
participating today. I really appreciate you all's testimony.
    Chairman Baker, you all have pursued, as the Chair just 
noted, both solar as well as conventional fuel projects that 
all result in net-zero emissions.
    Can you talk a little bit about the importance of just 
innovation and innovative technologies in helping the Tribe 
achieve your, kind of, financial health and sustainability, 
baseload power for your Tribe?
    Mr. Baker. Yes. The Coyote Clean Power Project has the 
potential to positively benefit the Southern Ute Indian Tribe 
and the local community by providing clean, affordable, 
baseload power to the grid in part of the country where coal 
plants are continuing to be retired over the coming years.
    Additionally, the Coyote Clean Power Project will be 
located on the Southern Ute Indian Reservation, creating 
employment opportunities in the community. Per Federal law, the 
project will be giving contracting preference for Indian-owned 
businesses and hiring enrolled Native Americans to support the 
project.
    During the peak of the construction, it is anticipated that 
the project will create over 1,000 indirect and direct jobs. 
Post-construction and during the operational period, it is 
anticipated that the project would directly create two to three 
dozen direct jobs, providing local high-tech employment 
opportunities for the community, along with future indirect job 
creation.
    So we are always looking for, you know, how can we 
implement job opportunities for our membership.
    Mr. Graves. So it is job opportunities, and it is financial 
assistance to the Tribe as well.
    There was an article from the Associated Press in June of 
this year that noted that there was a boom in Native American 
oil activity and how that potentially complicates what the 
Biden administration is doing.
    If the administration comes in and tries to prohibit or 
stop Tribes from producing conventional fuels, and, as we have 
talked about, in some cases with net-zero emissions, what does 
that do to the Southern Ute?
    You are on mute.
    Mr. Baker. Yeah.
    Mr. Graves. You are good.
    Mr. Baker. Since the project consumes fossil fuels--why 
would the Southern Ute develop a project that consumes fossil 
fuels, given the concerns on climate change? First, we believe 
that all energy development has some type of environmental 
impact. And, when we evaluate projects, we look at the 
environmental and social impacts through the entire lifecycle 
of the project, which can include air emissions, climate 
change, water and land use, wildlife, waste generation, labor, 
et cetera.
    The Coyote Clean Power Project utilizes natural gas, which 
we see as playing a big role in the overall energy transition 
due to the fact that it is readily available in the United 
States, has a lower carbon footprint than other types of fossil 
fuels, and, when coupled with innovative technology, can 
eliminate air pollutants associated with combustion and capture 
over 97 percent of the CO2 generated from the 
project for sequestration.
    The project is truly an innovative way to supply affordable 
baseload power to the grid while providing solutions to climate 
change we summarized into three buckets: Fossil fuels can be 
used cleanly. Fossil fuels still make up more than 80 percent 
of the energy consumed around the world. Carbon capture----
    Mr. Graves. So, Mr. Chairman, it sounds like you all have 
your own process where you review, kind of, from beginning to 
end and look at it and determine, just holistically, if this is 
the right move for the Tribe. And that is a great process and, 
I think, something that doesn't discriminate against energy 
technologies.
    President Sharp, I am curious--a couple things. One, there 
were some quotes from you earlier this year where you basically 
said you were going to, quote, ``take Big Oil down.'' Hearing 
from Chairman Baker about their ability to use conventional 
fuels in a way that is net-zero emissions, I am curious as to 
how those two things align.
    Ms. Sharp. Yes. I really appreciate that question, because, 
in that context, I was very passionate about taking Big Oil 
down because, when you look at the scale of the global crisis 
that we are all facing, the public treasury is having to pay 
for it. And, every single day, Big Oil is emitting, polluting, 
and denigrating our environment with no consequence. There is 
no carbon fee.
    And so that is my intent, that Big Oil should be held 
accountable for devastating our natural world and putting the 
price tag on the public treasury.
    Now, with regard to any Tribal nation's ability and desire 
to build their own fuel sources and energy, we fully support 
that. And to reconcile those two things: We are in a period of 
transition. We need to transition away from fossil fuels to 
renewable energy. And there is a space and a window, an 
opportunity, and we support any Tribal nation's desire to 
unlock the energy potential within their own sovereign lands.
    Mr. Graves. Thank you.
    And thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to make note, the 
Biden administration ignored the Navajo Tribe whenever they 
asked for an appropriate buffer, and they put a ban in place. 
So the administration is not listening to Tribes.
    In regard to President Sharp's comments, the reality is, 
for every 1 ton of emissions the United States has reduced, the 
global community has increased by 10 tons. And so it is not the 
United States.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Castor. Next we will go to Rep. Bonamici.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you to the Chair and Ranking Member and 
to our witnesses.
    I want to note that the title of this hearing includes 
``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom,'' and I just know that, as 
policymakers, we benefit greatly when we listen to Tribal 
voices and we heed the Tribal wisdom which our witnesses 
brought to this hearing today.
    You know, many of the witnesses have spoken either in their 
oral or written testimony about the expertise of Tribal nations 
in natural resource management and the value of indigenous 
traditional ecological knowledge.
    On November 15, the Office of Science and Technology Policy 
and the White House Council on Environmental Quality released a 
memo detailing the administration's commitment to elevating 
indigenous traditional ecological knowledge in Federal 
policymaking processes, and that includes the convening of an 
interagency workgroup. This workgroup will promote mutually 
beneficial partnerships between the Federal Government and 
Tribal communities on indigenous traditional ecological 
knowledge.
    So I want to ask Dr. Thornbrugh, what would you like to see 
this working group consider as it prepares the guidance 
document for release next year? And what recommendations do you 
expect the guidance will ultimately offer?
    Dr. Thornbrugh. Thank you, Representative Bonamici.
    The main things I would like to see, of course, is, you 
know, clear communication with Tribal nations, to, you know, 
respect the proprietary information around our Traditional 
Ecological Knowledge. You know, we are excited that it is 
brought higher to the forefront, but, as processes go, ongoing 
communication is so important.
    And I want to also highlight President Sharp in terms of 
the continued importance of FPIC. You know, that this is 
knowledge that comes from our histories, you know, very much a 
part of who we are, so it is important to have the utmost 
respect for it but also our consent in how it is applied.
    So I would just say, you know, in conclusion, just 
continuing that respect and regular communication. That way, if 
issues or concerns come up, they come up sooner rather than 
later.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. That is very helpful.
    President Sharp, welcome. It is very nice to see you again. 
I will always remember the beautiful traditional invocation 
your son provided when you were here at the Capitol previously.
    I want to thank you for the important contributions of the 
National Congress of American Indians and what those 
contributions meant to this committee's Climate Action Plan.
    Tribal feedback on the Climate Action Plan, as well as 
comments in your testimony, reflect the challenges that Tribal 
nations and intergovernmental Tribal groups face in accessing 
Federal programs and funding. And you mentioned that in your 
testimony again today.
    Tribal entities like the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish 
Commission, or CRITFC, in the Pacific Northwest have told me 
about some of those challenges they have had in accessing 
Federal grants and programs.
    So, President Sharp, how can we make sure that Tribal 
nations and entities have equitable access to Federal energy 
and climate programs? And how does maintaining the status quo--
or how would maintaining the status quo undermine our 
collective response to the climate crisis?
    Ms. Sharp. Excellent. And before I begin to answer the two 
questions, I do want to touch back on the previous question 
which I answered.
    When you look at the scale of the climate crisis facing 
this country and this world, relying almost entirely on the 
public treasury, appropriation through state capitols, state 
legislatures, and Congress, is simply not enough. We do have to 
hold Big Oil accountable and those who are directly 
responsible.
    But, of the limited public treasury, it is important that 
Tribal nations have a steady and a secure source of multiyear 
funding. It is very difficult to plan. Climate resiliency 
projects are multiyear, if not multigenerational. So it is 
critically important that we do have a reliable and steady 
source of revenue as Congress works to hold those who are 
accountable responsible.
    And I would also suggest, in a lot of conversations, there 
is a discussion of public-private partnerships to fund climate 
related impacts. So anything Congress can do to incentivize 
public-private partnerships, to hold Big Oil accountable to pay 
their fair share and price for centuries of devastation, and 
creating a framework for us to be able to access those directly 
from congressional appropriations would be incredibly helpful.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you.
    And what would be--how would it undermine the collective 
response if you did not have access to that funding?
    Ms. Sharp. It would undermine the response in that Tribal 
nations are already left vulnerable with little to no 
resources, as is evidenced in the U.N. Commission on Human 
Rights that was--Civil Commission on Human Rights that was 
delivered to Congress. We are chronically underfunded.
    And so, without the added support of addressing climate 
change, you take that away--and the impact of COVID-19 has 
revealed just how critically vulnerable Tribal nations are. So 
we would see our lands, our resources, our territories, even 
our traditional foods and plants disappear. And they are 
already disappearing. So it would prove to be devastating for 
Indian Country.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you.
    And I am over time, but I just want to note as I yield 
back, I hope you stayed safe during the atmospheric river 
events in the Pacific Northwest. We had some serious flooding 
recently. Take care.
    Ms. Sharp. Thank you.
    Ms. Bonamici. I yield back, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Castor. Next up, Rep. Palmer.
    You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Palmer. I thank the Chairman.
    And I thank the witnesses for being here.
    Chairman Baker, I am hopeful that one thing we can learn 
from the Tribes is that climate has a history. I keep bringing 
this up. I keep hearing a misappropriation of historical data 
and, in some cases, scientific data.
    And my colleagues on the committee have complained since I 
have been on it that fossil fuels are causing all the droughts 
that the world faces. And my question is, if the use of fossil 
fuels is causing current droughts, what caused the droughts 
that took place in the southwestern United States in the mid-
13th century that resulted in the disappearance of Tribes like 
the Anasazis?
    Do you have any idea?
    I believe you are muted.
    Mr. Baker. Yes. I don't have any idea, but we see that all 
around us in our southwest region, where, you know, again, we 
are close to the Mesa Verde ruins, and the history tells us, 
you know, how they lived, how they survived. And, you know, we 
see certain--we hear stories of the water levels that were 
higher back in the day. There was plenty of water. And, today, 
this whole region is drying up in our area. We are in a 
drought, high drought, for the year. Our lakes in the area are 
really, really drying up.
    So, with like anything else, I guess just like our past 
ancestors, you have to adapt and figure out a way to survive, 
whatever it is, at all means and all costs. And, you know, 
right now, that is a big issue for us again, the water, the 
drought. What is it going to look like in 5 years?
    So we are always--our teams are always looking for answers.
    Mr. Palmer. Yeah.
    Well, actually, Professor Scott Stine, who spent decades 
studying tree stumps in parts of the Sierra Nevada, found that 
the past century has been among the wettest in the last 7,000 
years. He also notes that the tree ring data shows that 
California had a 240-year drought that started in 850 AD, over 
1,000 years before fossil fuels, power like coal plants and oil 
were used.
    And my point is--and that includes the Mississippian 
culture. Where I grew up, I lived near mounds near Hamilton, 
Alabama. There are mounds south of Tuscaloosa and near 
Florence, Alabama. There was a thriving culture, Mississippian 
culture, that disappeared because of a major drought that 
occurred around 1300, 1350.
    And the point that I am trying to make is that we spend all 
this time attacking Big Oil, and I think it is because people 
have self-interest involved. The science doesn't support a lot 
of what is being said.
    But the historical record, the geologic record, shows that 
the climate changes all the time, for a number of reasons. And 
the indigenous peoples of America--and I have Native American 
background, as well, that I am very proud of--didn't have the 
technological ability to develop the natural resources to 
mitigate and adapt to the climate change. They had to migrate. 
And that is what happened with the Anasazis. I think they 
assimilated eventually into the Navajo Tribe.
    But we keep focusing on these things that--even some of the 
top scientists that this committee has brought in have admitted 
that if we completely eliminated all CO2 emissions, 
it wouldn't stop climate change.
    We have imposed restrictions on Native Americans, 
particularly on the reservations, that, as of a few years ago, 
the Energy Information Administration put out data that showed 
that 14 percent of the Native Americans on reservations had no 
access to electricity.
    Chairman Baker, do you think it is right for the Federal 
Government to deprive the Tribes of the right to utilize the 
natural resources that exist on their Tribal lands, to develop 
a power plant if they want to, a hydroelectric plant, natural 
gas, or even oil?
    Because there are literally reservations where people are 
suffering from energy poverty and living in poverty because you 
haven't been able to do that.
    Mr. Baker. No, I don't think it is right at all, you know. 
It is very, you know--it is just not fair for all Native 
Country all around, all Indian Country.
    But, you know, again, you know, for us, we are looking at 
self-determination as far as what can we do, how do we move 
forward. You know, we never stop. We have great teams in place. 
We collaborate with others. We do a lot of research as we move 
forward, no matter what the issue is.
    And not only when we talk about, you know, the energy and 
all that, our Tribe, we also diversify in many other aspects--
real estate, just many things out there in this world--we are 
always thinking; we are always moving. We can't focus on just 
one.
    But when we are focused on one, like this clean energy--you 
know, we know CO2 is a greenhouse gas, you know. 
These types of things, we are never going to stop moving 
forward and sharing that experience with other Tribes. When we 
talk about meeting and coming together, we do have Tribes that 
want to meet with us and come and ask us, how did you do it? 
And we are willing, more than willing, to share that story with 
anyone who wants to come and meet with our team.
    Mr. Palmer. I congratulate you on your commitment to your 
people.
    Mr. Baker. Thank you.
    Mr. Palmer. I yield back.
    Ms. Castor. Next up, Rep. Escobar, you are recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Escobar. Thank you so much, Madam Chair, for bringing 
us together in this hearing, and I would also like to express 
my gratitude to the panelists for sharing their wisdom and for 
participating with us here today.
    I am so proud that we have the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo in El 
Paso, which is the oldest Tribal community in the State of 
Texas, and the Tigua Tribal Council is the oldest government in 
the state as well.
    The Pueblo, just like most other Native groups, continues 
to depend on the land and its resources not just to further 
their way of life, but also, as part of their spiritual 
practices. But, of course, the climate crisis has completely 
changed what is available to them. And they have shared their 
concerns with me about drought and lack of access to water and 
the dire impacts that it has had on them and their ability to 
preserve that important way of life.
    I had the privilege yesterday of meeting with Governor 
Silvas from the Tigua Tribe, and one of the concerns he shared 
with me is the inflexibility that exists with government 
funding that is tied to the Tribe.
    And so, I actually want to explore that a little bit so we 
can better understand what we can do in order to provide the 
flexibility necessary so that the resources, especially as they 
relate to addressing the climate crisis and being able to fully 
utilize them to avert disaster, I would like to explore what 
some of those impediments and roadblocks have been for some of 
our panelists.
    So, President Sharp, in your testimony, you had mentioned 
the need for the Federal Government to provide funds directly 
to Tribes and through multiyear grants. Could you share with 
the committee how these changes would accelerate projects on 
the ground? And, if possible, is there an example you can think 
of that you can share with us?
    Ms. Sharp. Yes. I really appreciate the question, because 
the issues you raise affect every Tribal Nation in the United 
States that are on the front lines of dealing with climate 
change.
    And I will give you an example from my community. In the 
1950's and 1960's, we had millions of sockeye blueback salmon 
return to the Mighty Quinault, and the Quinault River is just 
out my window here, millions. And that was from when time 
began, from time memorialed. The year I got elected in 2006, we 
only had 3,000 blueback return. And our scientists have been 
doing a tremendous amount of work in adapting and mitigating 
those impacts, constructing engineered logjams, et cetera. But 
we are at a place now where we don't even have the resources to 
really understand the scope of the problem, and without Tribal 
nations, having a direct source of funding would provide us 
with the capacity to begin to do some of the identifying of the 
problem, and then based on identifying the science and having 
the capacity to do that, then build out adaptation and 
mitigation strategies. We don't even have the resources to 
fully wrap our minds around all of the scientific implications 
of what is happening.
    So if we had a dedicated source of funding, we would be 
able to clearly identify the challenges that our communities 
are facing, identify the goals and objectives related to 
climate resilience, and build a point to our partners, whether 
it is the Federal Government and agencies, state, or even the 
private sector. But until we have the resources to really 
understand the scope of our challenges, we are just simply 
putting out--literally putting out fires.
    Ms. Escobar. Thank you so much.
    Ms. Thomas, what are some of the other roadblocks that make 
it difficult for Tribes to access Federal funds for clean 
energy and resilience, in particular? And how would you 
recommend we fix them?
    Ms. Thomas. Thank you very much.
    So being a former Fed and having worked on policy and 
programs of the Department of Energy, the primary challenge 
around accessing Federal support is the multiple silos that 
exist, right. There is a great number. I think, by our last 
count, there were about 75 Federal programs across nine 
agencies that could be leveraged for energy development, for 
energy efficiency, for weatherization, whether it is LIHEAP at 
HHS, or the Weatherization Assistance Program at DOE, or the 
EDA program, Economic Development Administration, Department of 
Commerce.
    So aligning Federal programs, aligning them in such a way 
that gives Tribes the flexibility and the--not just the 
resources, but really the flexibility in leveraging those 
resources.
    And so, that is a function of mostly statute, but also 
regulation and other guidance that the Federal agencies have 
implemented. And so, a good starting point would be, much as 
the President has just announced, the Task Force Around Tribal 
Consultation, additional task forces around how to make the 
Federal programs more accessible to Tribes and Tribal 
communities as they are trying to put together and piece 
together Federal funds that help do.
    As I mentioned, a microgrid project can be a $20 million 
project. So I can go get that money from six or seven different 
agencies, but it is a very challenging and daunting process to 
do that.
    Ms. Escobar. Thank you so much.
    Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Castor. Thank you.
    Next up, Rep. Huffman, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Huffman. Good morning, Madam Chair. And thanks so much 
for this hearing. And welcome to our witnesses.
    Ranking Member Graves, of course, piqued my interest with 
his opening remarks about, you know, a Wright brothers' moment, 
a breakthrough on carbon capture utilization and storage using 
natural gas to push electricity onto the grid in a net zero 
way.
    And, you know, as I was trying to follow the testimony, I 
was also digging into, you know, whatever information I could 
find about this, and, you know, my mind remains open to any 
technology that can help us achieve zero emissions and meet our 
goals. But I am not sure that this really is the Wright 
brothers' moment from what I can gather about this pilot 
project in Texas. And I do want to ask you a little more about 
your larger project, Chairman Baker, using the same technology 
because I am curious about it.
    But from what I can gather, this at best is a more 
efficient way of creating a cycle that burns natural gas and 
captures the CO2, but we haven't yet figured out 
what to do with that CO2. And it looks like it is 
just going to the same old thing, enhanced oil recovery.
    So I think you are taking great liberties with the term 
``net zero'' when you are talking about burning natural gas and 
then using the CO2 that you can mostly capture 
through that process and then just going out and developing 
more oil to be burned in cars and other fossil fuel uses. That 
is not a climate solution. That is just oil and gas business as 
usual.
    And so, I remain pretty skeptical, but let's continue the 
conversation for sure. And the problem I have with representing 
this as a breakthrough is that right now, adding new renewables 
to generate electricity is actually cheaper than natural gas 
electricity that doesn't capture the carbon. So you add in the 
costs of carbon capture, and then all of the uncertainties 
about what you do with that CO2 after you capture 
it, no one yet has been able to figure out a way to safely and 
reliably store it so that it doesn't get into the atmosphere. 
There is just reason for skepticism, I believe.
    And so, let me ask you, if I could, Chairman Baker--and I 
applaud you for the solar project that you have pursued and the 
leadership you are showing in trying to develop clean energy--
as you look at expanding the use of this technology, what are 
you going to do with the CO2?
    Mr. Baker. Okay. Thank you for the question.
    Our plan is to store the CO2 in the ground. And 
also we don't develop oil on the reservation, you know. We do a 
lot outside the reservation. As we have grown, our energy 
department, you know, we are all over the place, not just 
strictly on our reservation. As well as the oil, we don't do 
that on our reservation, it is all natural gas. But our plan is 
to store the CO2 in the ground.
    Mr. Huffman. Have you identified a place and demonstrated 
that you can safely store it over the long term without leakage 
and other problems?
    Mr. Baker. Could you repeat that question?
    Mr. Huffman. Yes. Have you found a place to safely store it 
without leakage or other problems, or are you just going to 
have someone else take care of that?
    Mr. Baker. Okay. I am off mute. I was lost a second.
    Okay. You know, right now, that is kind of like 
confidential information as our team moves forward. I think we 
are still working on it, and we are not saying that we do not 
have the answer. But as anything else, we are progressing 
toward that. I am sure once we develop that and come up with a 
plan--you know, because, again, like we have said from day one, 
we are always looking out to protect our reservation, our 
homelands, you know, where it is within our area and all that. 
But we don't have that information that our team is working on. 
It is confidential at this point because we are not yet at the 
finish line. We are still trying to develop it and always doing 
things in the right way, not just for our reservation but for 
the whole earth as well as our sister Tribes across the 
country.
    Mr. Huffman. Okay. But you are not just going to pipe it 
off somewhere to be used for enhanced oil recovery?
    Mr. Baker. No. That is not in the works yet. You know, 
again, we don't have that answer. We are looking at various 
opportunities, and what is the right way? What is the best way? 
Again, at times, but it is possible to do that if you find the 
right, you know, mechanism of how that can go, where it can go 
in a safe manner. But, again, we are still, you know, working 
on all of these issues because, again, we don't want to present 
something without all of the facts, looking into it and knowing 
that.
    Mr. Huffman. I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. And I really 
do appreciate your leadership on these issues and what you are 
trying to do for your Tribe. But, as with so many other 
instances where we have heard of a great promise of carbon 
capture utilization and storage, when you ask the hard 
question, it is not quite ready for prime time. And, meanwhile, 
renewables are cheaper than natural gas. So I hope to keep our 
focus there.
    And with that, I yield back.
    Ms. Castor. Next up, Rep. Crenshaw, you are recognized for 
5 minutes.
    Mr. Crenshaw. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
    To Chairman Baker, your answer can simply be, we can do 
whatever we want because of Tribal sovereignty. So that can be 
your answer.
    Let's debunk a couple of things. No, renewables are not 
cheaper than natural gas. That is complete nonsense, complete 
nonsense. They are only cheaper because they get massive 
subsidies to make them cheaper. There is not a single 
manufacturer of solar panels or wind turbines or generators 
that I have talked to that say they could do this in an open 
and free market.
    Oh, but oil and gas gets subsidies, too. That is what they 
say. Lies. Another lie that needs to be debunked. There are no 
direct tax credits. There are no direct subsidies to oil and 
gas.
    Here is another lie that needs to be debunked: Carbon 
capture technology is not ready for market. Lies. Illinois is 
starting a project. Chairman Baker is talking about this 
project here in Colorado. Houston has already piloted it, and 
we just hooked it up to the energy grid. It is profitable. The 
only thing they used is a 45Q tax credit.
    These things are profitable, they work. And in some cases, 
they are carbon negative because the technology exists--and it 
is well developed technology--that pipes that well 
underground----
    Mr. Huffman. Madam Chair----
    Mr. Crenshaw [continuing]. And saves it for 10,000 years.
    Mr. Huffman. Madam Chair, point of order. Point of order, 
Madam Chair.
    You know, the gentleman is welcome to disagree with me and 
make points, but I would ask that his words be taken down for 
accusing me of lying.
    Mr. Crenshaw. Oh, well, your hurt feelings are noted.
    If I may continue.
    Ms. Castor. Gentlemen, wait.
    So you are not--would you like to yield to Mr. Huffman, Mr. 
Crenshaw?
    Mr. Crenshaw. No, I will not yield.
    I would like to yield to Mr. Baker.
    Chairman Baker, do you think that a person can be in the 
business of natural gas and also care about the environment?
    Mr. Baker. Yes. As I have always mentioned, as I mentioned, 
we as a Tribe, we are caretakers of the land. We have always 
been raised that way. No matter where we are, we are always 
going to have our land come first and be careful in, you know, 
how it affects our neighbors.
    Mr. Crenshaw. And Tribal lands are not exempt from this 
natural gas tax that is going to be in the reconciliation bill. 
Any member of your Tribe that operates a facility that 
produces, transmits, processes, or otherwise touches natural 
gas will be subject to a tax as assessed purely by the EPA.
    So how will this harm the members of the Southern Ute 
Tribe?
    Mr. Baker. I am not sure exactly how that would come 
because, again, like I said, we have so many other things that 
we work on that benefit our Tribe, not just oil and gas, you 
know. And, again, the lack of snow, lack of rainfall, you know, 
a lot of that does cause the droughts that are in our area.
    But, again, that is a great question. I am not the 
technical expert on this technology, but in the room, Kourtney 
Hadrick, Operating Director of our energy, and Coy Bryant, and 
the government should not tax our resources.
    Mr. Crenshaw. Right. I agree with that.
    And to address this--again, back to the general discussion 
of natural gas. Again, the facts are that natural gas and the 
fracking industry and the technology associated with that is 
the--it is almost 100 percent responsible for our reduction in 
emissions in this country back to 1992 levels. There is no 
disputing that. There is no disputing the fact that if we were 
to replace coal-burning--coal-fired power plants around the 
world with our U.S. natural gas, you would have more reduction 
in emissions than in any other solution that we are talking 
about here.
    And, look, to Mr. Huffman, I don't mean to call you a liar, 
and I will just apologize for that. But what you are saying is 
deeply, deeply untrue and misleading and, frankly, probably 
damaging to our mutual goals of reducing emissions in this 
country and around the world. That is the truth. That is the 
truth. And the facts back this up.
    The facts back up that these technologies, carbon capture 
technologies are indeed ready for market. It is happening right 
before our eyes. And we can refuse to acknowledge it. We can 
cover our ears and cover our eyes and pretend we don't see it 
and pretend that renewables are cheaper and that they are more 
effective and that they are reliable. We can pretend all that. 
We can write a fiction novel about it. But none of it will be 
true. It will never be true.
    And to oversubsidize those technologies, renewable 
technologies to the detriment of reliable clean technologies, 
like carbon capture and nuclear energy, is insanity. It is 
insanity, especially at a moment around the world where people 
are having trouble keeping the lights on. That is a very, very 
bad place to be in.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Palmer. Yield the balance of his time?
    Mr. Crenshaw. Yes, I will.
    Mr. Palmer. I thank the gentleman.
    The National Carbon Capture Center is in my district, and I 
would be happy to host the committee if they want to visit 
that. We are sequestering carbon and concrete blocks and other 
materials. There is no leaking or leaching. And I do think that 
it might be good for the committee to have an expanded view of 
what is actually happening in regard to that technology.
    And I thank the gentleman, and I yield back.
    Ms. Castor. Well, thank you for that offer, Mr. Palmer.
    We all know that we do--there is a role for carbon capture 
and storage when it comes to industrial processes, like 
concrete and steel. But, as I think Mr. Huffman makes a very 
strong point, it is still unproven when it comes to oil and 
gas.
    So next we are going to go up to--go to Rep. Casten, you 
are recognized for--oh, Mr. McEachin is going to go first. We 
recognize Rep. McEachin for 5 minutes.
    Mr. McEachin. I am sorry, Madam Chair. You caught me off 
guard. I thought I was after Rep. Casten, but I will go ahead 
since he has been kind to me today.
    Madam Chair, first of all, thank you for convening today's 
hearing, and thank you to our witnesses for joining this 
hearing.
    Across the nation, communities are feeling the impacts of 
climate change and, of course, that includes Native American 
Tribes and indigenous people in my district. Like other 
historically underrepresented people, indigenous groups have 
been disproportionately impacted by the impacts of climate 
change.
    According to experts, this is part--it is attributable to 
the historic wrongs that led to Tribal lands' dispossession and 
forced migration to less economically productive lands.
    As I have said before, access to clean air, clean water, 
and a healthy environment should not be a luxury. And as we 
have seen, we need to make sure that as we go forward we 
address the climate crisis to move towards a clean energy 
future.
    The Select Committee has made recommendations as to how to 
ensure this is the case, and President Biden has committed to 
doing so as well through the Justice40 Initiative, a goal 
delivering 40 percent of overall benefits of the relevant 
Federal investments to disadvantaged communities, including 
Tribal communities.
    I look forward to working with my colleagues and with the 
administration to ensure that we follow through on this promise 
and that our Tribal nations have the resources and capacity to 
address climate threats and take advantage of the opportunities 
presented by the ongoing clean energy transition.
    This question is for all the witnesses. And I will just ask 
that you take it in the order that you--that you answer in the 
order that you gave your testimony.
    You know, when drafting the Environmental Justice for All 
Act, it was critical for me to get feedback from a variety of 
stakeholders on the legislation, including Tribal and 
indigenous leaders.
    As new policies are created and grants are distributed from 
the infrastructure package, can you please clarify how you feel 
the Federal Government can best ensure meaningful stakeholder 
engagement, including the types of engagement that would be 
most helpful?
    Ms. Sharp. Thank you. I will go first.
    I really appreciate not only the question but that 
background because it is so important for everybody to 
understand and recognize the place of not only indigenous 
peoples but communities of color as disproportionately 
impacted.
    The one thing that I could offer and suggest that would be 
very helpful is to formalize the engagement of Tribal nations 
on climate policy. As Pilar mentioned, we have to deal with 
various silos within the Federal Government. But to consolidate 
and be able to provide a national climate strategy that is both 
informed as well as engaging Tribal nations at every level 
would be helpful.
    And I can say, as representing 574 Tribal nations, that we 
are prepared. We are ready. We just need to have those multiple 
points of opportunity to bring not only our traditional 
knowledge, but our innovation and the things that we are doing 
across Indian Country.
    So we welcome any opportunity, and I thank you for that 
question.
    Mr. McEachin. All right. I have less than 2 minutes. Please 
continue, folks.
    All right. Ms. Thomas, would you answer next then, please?
    Ms. Thomas. Sure. I think. So there is lots of ways to 
have--lots of methods for engagement. And, you know, you have 
your national Tribal organizations, such as NCAI. You have the 
regional organizations, such as USET, where Casey works, and 
those all over the country. The biggest challenge as well, 
though, is with direct Tribal communities. And as much as there 
is a government-to-government relationship that the Federal 
Government has to uphold at all levels, sometimes the voices of 
individual Tribal members and Tribal communities, those have to 
be brought to the table as well.
    So there is a multilevel challenge that the Federal 
Government has, but as with anything, you know, the big thing 
is how to eat an elephant; one bite at a time. You have just 
got to get started. So, you know, we have got to do some--maybe 
some things a little bit differently, and hopefully some of the 
models that this administration is putting together will be a 
good way to do that.
    We have got to find natural allies and partners who are in 
the same boat, and try and create partnerships across 
communities of color, across organizations, and across levels 
of government. And encouraging Tribes, for example, to engage 
with their cities and counties, as well as with state 
governments, is another way to come at this.
    Mr. McEachin. Well, thank you for those answers.
    Dr. Thornbrugh, and to the Chairman, I am not going to try 
to get you all to answer in less than 20 seconds. But I would 
ask that you just send us an answer to that question, if you 
would.
    Mr. Baker. Okay.
    Mr. McEachin. It is a sincere question. And we have a lot 
of work to do to make sure we have the right communication 
between, obviously, Tribal and indigenous peoples, but all 
folks who have been disadvantaged by the climate crisis.
    Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Castor. Thank you, Rep. McEachin.
    Next we will go to Rep. Casten. You are recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Casten. Thank you so much and thanks to our witnesses.
    I want to start just by apologizing. It breaks my heart 
that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle have seemed 
to have climbed in a time machine this morning and gone back to 
1995 and said that the climate is always changing, the fossil 
fuel industry isn't subsidized, that people who would suggest 
that have special interests. My goodness. We had a $100 billion 
of damage this year, real people who lost their homes from 
fires and floods, and we are going to talk about tree ring 
data?
    The International Monetary Fund says that the world 
subsidizes the fossil fuel industry by $6 trillion a year, $650 
billion in the U.S. We are going to call those lies? Show some 
respect, for this committee, for this science, and for the 
planet we all call home. My goodness.
    I want to try and end on an optimistic note, but I want to 
start, President Sharp, with a question for you. And it is a 
hard question for me to grapple with, and I am hoping that you 
have got more wisdom than me on this.
    For not all of the Tribes in our country, but for an awful 
lot of them, the lands they live on are lands that they were 
forcibly relocated to. We moved them off productive land. We 
moved them to more marginal land, and an awful lot of that land 
is now areas that, in many cases, is most at risk of climate 
change. Areas that are harder to obtain water, more risk of 
drought. I see you nodding your head.
    My question for you is, number one, are the programs that 
we have available in this country for adaptation sufficient for 
those communities, and can they get access to them? And, number 
two, to the extent that they are--that those folks are living 
in areas where the best thing to do is to help folks relocate 
to a more productive area, how can we be most culturally 
sensitive for communities that have been told by the Federal 
Government to move before and may be a little bit skeptical?
    And I would welcome your thoughts on both of those 
questions, with the hope that I can end with a little bit of 
time for Dr. Thomas before we are done.
    Ms. Sharp. Yes. Thank you.
    And to your first question, adaptation funding is simply 
not enough. And we need additional resources to begin to not 
only adapt with new and emerging science and the things that 
are readily available, but the centuries of knowledge that we 
have with respect to adaptation and cultivating and developing 
that with our elders is critically important.
    To your second question, yes, how can we make those 
adjustments and moves in a more culturally sensitive way. But 
the one way to do that is to acknowledge that Tribal nations 
should have a decisive say, through free prior and informed 
consent, on all Federal actions. When the United States or any 
other government can take unilateral action without our 
consent, it puts us in an imperiled position.
    So those are the two suggestions that I would offer.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Casten. Thank you.
    And moving to Dr. Thomas, and I want to try to end on a 
more uplifting note. You know, we talk a lot about the pain of 
climate change, and I think sometimes we talk too little about 
the economic gain, notwithstanding what some of my colleagues 
seem to suggest. If you invest in things that have no marginal 
operating costs, you make a lot of money. It is pretty awesome. 
Actually, there is reasons why the private sector likes this.
    In your former capacity as the Deputy Director of the DOE's 
Office of Indian Energy Policy, I wonder if you could comment 
on, we have all of these programs to try to make sure that we 
are investing dollars in the areas where we have the maximum 
opportunity for renewable resources, where the wind resources 
are, where the solar resources are. You talked a little bit 
about that in your opening testimony.
    Are the programmatic ways that we get money into Indian 
Country sufficient to make sure that those monies flow to the 
optimal places, notwithstanding where the land is and who lives 
on it, or are there things we can do to tweak and better 
accelerate this transition to a cleaner and cheaper future?
    Ms. Thomas. So, as I had mentioned before, the biggest 
challenge is the silos within the agencies themselves and 
across agencies and being able to leverage as much Federal 
support as possible, whether it is technical assistance or 
financial assistance.
    Between rural development in our U.S.'s programs, the 
Department of Energy's programs, the Department of the 
Interior's programs, piecing these all together can be a huge 
challenge. Everybody has got a different calendar. Everybody 
has got a different set of criteria for what kind of projects 
work.
    The commercial scale projects, the two commercial scale 
projects, didn't use any Federal money from a grant standpoint. 
They used tax credits, but those projects are so big that the 
small amounts--the relatively small amounts of Federal money 
don't really help with the commercial scale.
    Now, financial assistance, yes. And these smaller scale 
projects where Tribes can use their wind and solar for 
themselves, that is really where the Federal support becomes 
more impactful, and you see less of the private sector, at 
least right now, being interested in supporting, you know, a 
20-kilowatt solar project. So the Federal support becomes more 
important there.
    So, really, the big opportunities for the administration, I 
think, as with any administration, is how do we better 
coordinate amongst ourselves? And part of that really should 
start with asking the Tribes who are trying to develop 
projects, what do you need from us, and what can we do, from 
the Federal Government perspective, to support that effort?
    Mr. Casten. Thank you.
    I see I am out of time. I really appreciate your response.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Castor. Well, thank you very much.
    As we close out this hearing, I would like to take--provide 
the witnesses with 1 minute each to give us some closing advice 
and wisdom. And let's go in reverse order and start with Ms. 
Thomas, 1 minute for closing words to us.
    Ms. Thomas. So I usually just try and end, usually when I 
talk about this, with two key concepts: One, Tribal sovereign 
authorities. Tribes aren't going to be able to accomplish most 
of what they need to do from a clean energy and from a climate 
resiliency standpoint if they don't have the Federal 
Government's support for them exercising their own sovereign 
authorities for what makes sense for the Tribal community.
    And then, secondly, I do think the Federal Government could 
be more ambitious around supporting mass deployment of whatever 
technology works for the Tribes around climate resiliency. And 
that is going to require putting our shoulder to the grindstone 
to really figure out what is it we can do. We can plan. We can 
assess. And President Sharp is right, we still need more money 
for that. But in the end, we have got to actually do something 
to protect ourselves, and so that is going to require more 
Federal Government coordination in that regard.
    Ms. Castor. Dr. Thornbrugh.
    Dr. Thornbrugh. Thank you.
    So, first and foremost, it is important for Tribal nations 
to be leaders and to guide Traditional Ecological Knowledge 
initiatives.
    I also want to highlight direct funding for Tribal nations 
for climate change adaptation and resilience. Competitive 
funding puts a burden on the Tribal nations and is not 
representative of the trust and treaty obligation.
    Also, I want to mention, it is important for early 
consultation with Tribal nations. We need the time to look at 
initiatives, and understand how they impact our Nation and 
communities in that way, so early consultation.
    I just want to mention a couple of brief things on the 
climate change side.
    You know, we recognize that climate has changed throughout 
geologic time. In the northeast where I live, it took 10,000 
years for the glaciers to recede. We are looking at changes 
within 100 years, or within lifetimes.
    Thank you.
    Ms. Castor. Mr. Baker.
    Mr. Baker. Thank you.
    And I want to thank everyone for, you know, participating 
in this. It is some good discussion.
    I believe that everyone on this call contributed to 
emissions in our atmosphere. We aren't here to debate climate 
change. We are here to promote working together with different 
views and open minds to put real-world solutions in place as we 
move forward, and we advocate for our sovereignty and work 
nation to nation around the world to solve the problems, you 
know, to mention, because who knows best about their own 
homelands than the Natives and their work in their own 
reservations? We know what we have got to do as caretakers of 
the land.
    And also we would like to invite anyone who would like to 
come and tour what we are working on at our reservation here at 
Southern Ute.
    So thank you for allowing me to speak today in regards to 
this testimony.
    Ms. Castor. Thank you.
    And President Sharp.
    Ms. Sharp. Yes. [Speaking Native language.]
    My 1 minute, I would just like to encourage every member of 
the committee to continue to advance, as leaders of this 
country, with bold and courageous and decisive climate action. 
We are running out of time.
    And I would like to leave you with this thought. From my 
perspective, there is no way we are going to be able to 
negotiate, legislate, or buy our way out of this climate 
crisis. We have to return to our traditional life ways that the 
indigenous peoples of this continent have exercised for 
millennia. And that is my one takeaway from COP26. When I 
worked with indigenous peoples from all over the world, it is 
very clear we do manage 80 percent of the world's biodiversity, 
and it is only with us at the table to bring that timeless 
knowledge to restore balance to this planet. We can't take 
selective science to advance political objectives that benefit 
multinational corporations who seem to suggest that the health 
and future of our planet, and even humanity, is reduced to 
nothing more than a cost of doing business.
    We have to be bold, courageous, speak truth, and speak 
honest truth as we navigate through this crisis.
    [Speaking Native language.] Thank you.
    Ms. Castor. Well, thank you to all of our witnesses for 
your Tribal wisdom and advice to the Congress. We certainly 
need it.
    So I will go to Representative Graves for a unanimous 
consent request.
    Mr. Graves. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Madam Chair, I ask unanimous consent the statement from the 
Navajo Nation regarding the Biden administration's actions on 
Chaco Canyon be included in the record; secondly, an article 
regarding the NET Power facility on dispatching zero emission 
natural gas generated electricity to the grid; and then, 
lastly, an analysis by C2ES, which is a Pew associated group, 
that make note that, I believe, the former head of it is now 
working for John Kerry in the administration, that has an 
analysis of carbon capture and sequestration that lists a 
number of successful projects over decades.
    [The information follows:]

                       Submissions for the Record

                      Representative Garret Graves

                 Select Committee on the Climate Crisis

                           November 18, 2021

ATTACHMENT: Navajo Nation (2021 November), ``Navajo Nation Opposes 
With-
        drawal for Development at Chaco Canyon, Tribal Consultation 
        Ignored.''

The press release is retained in the committee files and available at:
        https://www.navajonationcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/
        Chaco_ Opposition_2021.11.16.pdf

ATTACHMENT: NET Power (2021 November), ``NET Power Delivers Electricity 
to
        Grid in Major Technological Breakthrough.''

The article is retained in the committee files and available at:
        https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/net-power-delivers-
        electricity-to-grid-in-major-technological-breakthrough-
        301425894.html

ATTACHMENT: C2ES, ``Carbon Capture.''

This topic overview is retained in the committee files and available 
at:
        https://www.c2es.org/content/carbon-capture/.

    Ms. Castor. Thank you, Rep. Graves.
    And as I close out the hearing, I do want to say that I 
know that members are strong advocates for their communities 
back home and their policy positions, but members like 
Representative Crenshaw, his remarks today really crossed the 
line when he spoke in terms of lies and liars. That violates 
our rules of decorum here in the House, and it was appropriate 
for him to apologize to Representative Huffman today, and I am 
glad he did that, especially when it comes to an--and I will 
offer this as a unanimous consent request, his assertion that 
there are no--oil and gas doesn't receive subsidies from the 
U.S. Government.
    So, without objection, I will enter into the record a 
September 2021 report from the International Monetary Fund 
titled ``Still Not Getting Energy Prices Right: A Global and 
Country Update of Fossil Fuel Subsidies,'' and finding that 
globally, fossil fuel subsidies were $5.9 trillion in 2020 as 
Rep. Casten mentioned.
    Also, an October 2021 resolution from the National Congress 
of American Indians titled ``Amending and Updating NCAI 
Resolution SD-15-024 in Supporting Tribal Disaster Resilience 
and Climate Change Principles,'' and an October 2021 resolution 
from the National Congress of American Indians titled 
``Additional Tribal Disaster Resilience and Climate Change 
Common Principles.''
    [The information follows:]

                       Submissions for the Record

                      Representative Kathy Castor

                 Select Committee on the Climate Crisis

                           November 18, 2021

ATTACHMENT: National Congress of American Indians (2021 October). 
``Amending
        and Updating NCAI Resolution #SD-15-024 and Supporting Tribal 
        Disaster Resilience and Climate Change Principles.''

The resolution is retained in the committee files and available at:
        https://ncai.assetbank-server.com/assetbank-ncai/assetfile/
        176.pdf

ATTACHMENT: National Congress of American Indians (2021 October). 
``Additional
        Tribal Disaster Resilience and Climate Change Common 
        Principles.''

The resolution is retained in the committee files and available at:
        https://ncai.assetbank-server.com/assetbank-ncai/assetfile/
        177.pdf

ATTACHMENT: Parry, I., Black, S., and Vernon, N. (2021 September). 
Still Not
        Getting Energy Prices Right: A Global and Country Update of 
        Fossil Fuel Subsidies. International Monetary Fund.

The report is retained in the committee files and available at:
        https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WP/Issues/2021/09/23/Still-
        Not-Getting-Energy-Prices-Right-A-Global-and-Country-Update-of-
        Fossil-Fuel-Subsidies-466004

    Ms. Castor. Without objection, all members will have 10 
business days within which to submit additional written 
questions for the witnesses. I ask our witnesses to respond 
promptly as you are able.
    Thank you all. And the committee is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:04 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]

                 United States House of Representatives

                 Select Committee on the Climate Crisis

                      Hearing on November 18, 2021

  ``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom: Strategies for the Climate Crisis''

                        Questions for the Record

                        The Honorable Fawn Sharp

            President, National Congress of American Indians

                 Vice President, Quinault Indian Nation

                       the honorable kathy castor
    1. President Sharp, the Build Back Better Act contains incentives 
like tax credits for new and used electric vehicles and investments in 
electric vehicle charging as well as rebates for residential appliance 
and equipment electrification. Would you agree that these types of 
investments can help reduce demand for oil and gas and reduce exposure 
to volatile fossil fuel prices?

    Thank you for your questions, Chair Castor. Incentives are a step 
in the right direction for promoting widespread use of electric 
vehicles, however there are significant obstacles for Indian Country. 
Large parts of Indian Country are rural, and thus underserved by 
electrical grids and lack of charging station infrastructure. 
Additionally, due to the rural nature and long distances among many 
Tribal communities, many Tribal citizens require electric vehicles with 
greater battery capacity and storage. Further, the cost for these 
vehicles, even with the current incentives, is prohibitive for many if 
not most Tribal citizens. Lastly, it's important to know where the 
electricity for these vehicles is being sourced from. Electric vehicles 
are not as beneficial if the electrical grid they are charged from is 
still powered by fossil fuels such as coal, or destructive 
hydroelectric dams.

    2. President Sharp, could you describe some of the jobs that could 
be created in Tribal Nations as a result of investments in clean 
energy?

    There are several Tribal Nations employing their own citizens in 
their clean energy initiatives. The Moapa Southern Paiute Solar 
Project, located in Clark County, Nevada, co-owns a solar project with 
non-Tribal energy entities to create wages and benefits for Tribal 
citizens. Currently, the project provides over 115 construction jobs 
for Tribal citizens, with hopes to provide employment to at least 600 
Tribal citizens throughout the lifetime of the project through 
construction and operations positions.

    3. President Sharp, should Congress explore strategies to reduce 
the carbon footprint of the manufacturing of climate solutions like 
wind and solar energy while supporting the transition to a clean energy 
economy?

    Yes, Congress should explore strategies to reduce carbon emissions 
in all sectors. When exploring strategies to reduce the carbon 
footprint, it's important to consult Tribal Nations to ensure any 
climate projects are not happening on culturally significant areas.

    4. President Sharp, do you believe that technologies like grid-
scale storage and demand response can help achieve a more flexible grid 
that can integrate higher levels of renewable energy as we phase out 
unabated fossil fuel-fired electricity generation?

    Yes, short to long term storage technologies will be vital to 
ensure grids dispense uninterrupted electricity to the end users. Grid-
scale storage is part of this solution.

    5. President Sharp, the Climate Crisis Action Plan recommends 
policies to advance a range of carbon-free electricity generation 
sources so that different regions and communities can advance solutions 
that work for them. Could you please explain why it is important for 
regions and communities to be able to have that choice and prioritize 
renewable energy if that is what they would prefer?

    Indian Country is a diverse place, each Tribal Nation has unique 
circumstances that require individualized electricity generation 
solutions that respect their inherent sovereignty. On top of regional 
and environmental differences, there are cultural aspects that may 
render some areas and means of electricity generation not suitable for 
some Tribal Nations. Federal and state actors must be aware of these 
factors, while acknowledging and embracing Indian Country as a willing 
partner in carbon-free electricity generation. Federal, state, and 
local actors must involve Tribal Nations when planning and developing 
electricity generation projects and all climate change projects to 
avoid issues of cultural and community concern.

    6. President Sharp, the Climate Crisis Action Plan recommends a 
broad suite of technologies to decarbonize the economy, including 
carbon capture and storage where there is a clear climate benefit. 
However, in the last year, there has been news coverage of carbon 
dioxide pipeline leaks sickening vulnerable communities. Link: https://
www.huffpost.com/entry/gassing-satartia-mississippi-co2-
pipeline_n_60ddea9fe4b0ddef8b0ddc8f. Do you agree that 
the development of carbon capture technologies should also include 
protections to promote environmental justice?

    Yes, the development of carbon capture technologies should include 
protections to promote environmental justice. Environmental justice 
should also be a consideration in the development of policies and 
approaches to addressing climate change overall to ensure that Tribal 
Nations are equitability included and appropriately consulted.

    7. President Sharp, can you describe some of the ways the Biden 
Administration is working to improve Tribal consultation and strengthen 
relationships with Tribal Nations?

    On January 26, 2021, President Biden signed a Presidential 
Memorandum titled ``Memorandum on Tribal Consultation and Strengthening 
Nation-to-Nation Relationships.'' implementing Executive Order 13175, 
``Consultation and Coordination With Indian Tribal Governments.'' This 
memorandum reaffirmed the Obama Administration's commitment and 
recognition of Tribal self-determination and the federal trust and 
treaty obligations to Tribal Nations. This year we have seen almost 
every federal agency host consultations on developing a consultation 
action plan. Since issuing this Presidential Memorandum, federal 
agencies have held more than 150 national-level consultation sessions 
totaling more than 350 hours of government-to-government interaction. 
With all the comments and feedback provided by Tribal Nations, we are 
eager to see the results and changes to consultation policies across 
federal agencies. We are grateful the Biden Administration is taking 
meaningful steps to be responsive to Tribal needs and aligning federal 
planning with our values and principles.
                      the honorable garret graves
    1. President Sharp, you have historically been critical of the 
American oil and gas industry, saying in our hearing that you want to 
take big oil down. The Biden Department of Energy just released 
projections that show a significant increase in global demand for 
natural gas and oil in every modeled scenario--that is a global 
reality.

      a.  Given that reality, do you think the best approach to meet 
this global demand is to shut down production in the United States, 
including on tribal lands, and cede supply to foreign entities--in 
particular state-owned enterprises in Russia, Iran, Venezuela, etc.--
where lifecycle emissions are up to 50 percent higher than if produced 
in the United States?

    NCAI supports energy strategies to increase tribal self-
determination over natural resources so that the Tribal Nations are 
able to choose the most suitable avenue of energy development for the 
benefit of their sovereignty and their citizens. As Indian Country is 
extremely diverse, this can take many forms, including renewable energy 
and fossil fuel extraction.

      b.  To the extent there is global demand, shouldn't we want that 
demand to be met by the lowest emission producers, like those in the 
United States, providing the most environmentally friendly production 
as well as creating and sustaining domestic jobs, including on tribal 
lands?

    NCAI supports energy strategies to increase tribal self-
determination over natural resources so that the Tribal Nations are 
able to choose the most suitable avenue of energy development for the 
benefit of their sovereignty and their citizens. As Indian Country is 
extremely diverse, this can take many forms, including renewable energy 
and fossil fuel extraction.

      c.  Some renewable energy technologies, such as wind turbines and 
solar panels, rely on fossil resources for their production and, for 
wind turbines, in their use. Given your opposition to oil and gas, do 
you oppose the use of wind or solar energy if oil, gas, or coal was 
involved in their production or use? 

    NCAI does not hold a position for or against any energy resource 
being used for the development of renewable energy technologies.

      d.  Both wind and solar are intermittent resources that today 
rely on natural gas for backup power. Do you support natural gas as a 
means to utilize wind and solar today or should we shut down all wind 
and solar that rely on natural gas until such time that it can be 
affordably relied upon without natural gas?

    NCAI supports the continued transition to renewable energy sources 
without interruption of electricity services to Tribal Nations and 
their citizens.

    2. Chairman Baker has outlined an approach that will depend upon 
Tribal natural gas resources, utilizing American innovation, and 
producing affordable carbon free electricity on demand.
    While there are lifecycle considerations--such as the exposure to 
slave labor when producing solar panels in China or the mining and 
uncontrolled coal powered processing of critical minerals in China--
when it come to the use in the generation of electricity, can you 
explain the emissions difference in the electricity generation between 
the zero-emission natural gas technology that the Chairman Baker's 
testimony discusses, and the renewable options referenced in Ms. 
Thomas' testimony?

    The natural gas technology and renewable energy options that 
Chairman Baker and Pilar Thomas laid out during their testimonies were 
both valued options for Tribal Nations to consider in their own energy 
strategies. We defer to their testimony and expertise.

    3. At our hearing you stated that NCAI supports ``any Tribal 
nation's desire to unlock the energy potential within their own 
sovereign lands.''

      a.  Do you support the efforts of the Southern Ute Indian Tribe 
to utilize its resources?

    Yes, NCAI supports Tribal Nations' choice to explore for their own 
self-determined energy strategies.

      b.  Do you support the Southern Ute exercising their sovereignty 
to partner with NET Power to develop zero carbon emissions baseload 
power?

    Yes, NCAI supports energy strategies to increase tribal self-
determination over natural resources so that the Tribal Nations can 
choose the most suitable avenue of energy development for the benefit 
of their sovereignty and their citizens.

      c.  Would you be concerned with efforts from the Federal 
government to dictate   whether or not the Southern Ute can affordably 
take advantage of their abundant resources--including natural gas--that 
is developed on their sovereign land?

    NCAI believes that any federal efforts that would limit the 
exercise of tribal self-determination must be consulted on with Tribal 
Nations, with free, prior, and informed consent required from the 
Nations being affected.

    4. I mentioned at the hearing that the Navajo Nation issued a press 
release following the Biden Administration's decision on a 20-year ban 
on oil and gas drilling within a ten-mile radius of the Chaco Canyon 
Heritage Area. The Navajo Nation's Speaker, Seth Damon, stated that, 
``The Biden Administration bypassed previous requests to Congress for 
field hearings and for leaders to hear directly from our Navajo 
families affected in the Chaco Canyon region. The position of the 
Navajo Nation Council is for the creation of a 5-mile buffer within and 
around this sacred site. It is important that the federal government 
consider and work with our Navajo allottees to further advance 
development. The Administration must respect our tribal sovereignty and 
what the government-to-government relationship entails.''

      a.  Do you support the Biden Administration's decision even 
though they ignored specific requests from the Navajo Nation for field 
hearings and consultation with the Tribe?

    NCAI defers this question to the Navajo Nation out of respect to 
their Sovereignty.

      b.  Have you called on, or will you call on the Biden 
Administration to reverse its decision and agree to the Navajo Nation's 
request before deciding, and base the final decision on what is best 
for the Navajo Nation?

    NCAI defers this question to the Navajo Nation out of respect to 
their Sovereignty.

      c.  The United States has been the undisputed leader in carbon 
sequestration innovation. It is vital to look at the science and the 
facts regarding its viability and the huge global emissions reduction 
opportunities with successful deployment both here in the U.S. and 
worldwide. According to the experts, based on the science and the 
facts, carbon sequestration is safe, proven, and been widely used for 
decades. The referenced Department of Energy report \1\ makes several 
key points:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Ibid.

            ``The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) has invested more 
        than $1 billion during the past two decades through its Carbon 
        Storage Research and Development (R&D) Program to develop the 
        technologies and capabilities for widespread commercial 
        deployment of geologic storage. This investment has made DOE a 
        leader in this worldwide effort.'' \2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Ibid.

            ``CCUS projects supported by DOE and other organizations 
        around the world, which in 2019 injected more than 25 million 
        metric tons of CO2, have shown no adverse impacts to 
        human health or the environment. And no DOE supported project 
        has observed migration of CO2 outside of the 
        intended storage reservoir or confining cap rock.'' \3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ Ibid.

            ``The assurances we can make today about the secure storage 
        of CO2 in deep geologic reservoirs are based on: (1) 
        a foundation of nearly five decades of oil and gas industry 
        experience injecting CO2 into oil- and gas-filled 
        formations; (2) the 20 years of technology advancements made 
        from R&D programs like DOE's Carbon Storage Program; (3) field-
        testing campaigns, such as the Regional Carbon Sequestration 
        partnerships (RCSPs) that have validated monitoring tools and 
        strategies and developed best practices; (4) improved 
        understanding of the physics, chemistry, and mechanics involved 
        throughout the life of a CCUS project.'' \4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ Ibid.

            Given that the United States Department of Energy has 
        worked on energy technologies for decades, spanning multiple 
        administrations of both political parties, do you view them as 
        a qualified expert when it comes carbon capture and 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        sequestration?

    NCAI understands and acknowledges that the Department of Energy has 
experts in the field of carbon sequestration and capture, and supports 
their efforts to reach out and collaborate with Indian Country and 
tribal experts.

                        Questions for the Record

                     The Honorable Melvin J. Baker

                                Chairman

                       Southern Ute Indian Tribe

                    the honorable a. donald mceachin
    1. When drafting the Environmental Justice for All Act, it was 
critical that Chairman Grijalva and I get feedback from a variety of 
stakeholders on the legislation, including from Tribal and Indigenous 
leaders.
      As new policies are created, and grants are distributed from the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act can you please clarify how you 
feel the federal government can best ensure meaningful stakeholder 
engagement, including the types of engagement that would be most 
helpful?

    Representative McEachin. Thank you for your comments and your work 
with Chairman Grijalva on behalf of Indian country. The Environmental 
Justice for All Act, H.R. 2021, is important in ensuring that minority 
communities do not suffer a disparate impact from environmental 
hazards. Indian country has historically been a depository by the 
federal government and others for toxic waste, which has had a 
devastating impact on Native communities.
    At the same time, many Indian tribes--including the Southern Ute 
Indian Tribe (the Tribe)--rely on prudent natural resource development, 
including renewable and traditional energy, to fund their government 
programs and services.
    The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, H.R. 3684, is lengthy 
and complex. Thoroughly engaging with Tribes can be difficult due to a 
number of factors, including poor or non-existent internet, delays in 
postal deliveries, and remote locations. In addition, the substance of 
the legislation can change quickly as it moves through the legislative 
process, making it hard for Tribes to keep up with critical 
modifications.
    However, as we saw in the recent Supreme Court case of Yellen v. 
Confederated Tribes of the Chehalis Reservation, sloppy drafting can 
lead to differences in legislative text that can have a major impact on 
those Native communities that are entitled to federal relief and those 
that are not. This can cause unnecessary division among Tribes and 
other Native communities. That is why Tribal engagement at every stage 
of the legislative process is important. After legislation has passed, 
we find that Tribes are often unfamiliar with the nature of the 
programs offered due to the complexity of the legislation, itself.
    The following are some suggestions the Tribe feels would be helpful 
in consulting with Indian country during the legislative process and 
after the legislation has passed:
    The Tribe finds it is helpful to have frank and direct 
communications with the Committees while legislation is being 
considered. This has included:

    a.  Setting up remote meetings between representatives of the 
Committees and Tribes to discuss legislation.
    b.  Forwarding the legislation to Tribal representatives by email 
and regular mail to ensure they are aware of the legislation and have 
an opportunity to provide comments.
    c.  Encouraging the Tribe's local representatives to communicate 
with them on key legislative initiatives that might directly affect 
them. The Colorado delegation is excellent at communicating with the 
two Tribes located within the state's borders.

    Once the legislation has passed, government agencies vary in their 
tribal engagement. Some are very proactive. Others less so. Here are 
some thoughts on what we believe works best:

    a.  The White House does a good job of holding meetings with Tribes 
on legislation that has passed. This is a starting point.
    b.  Often governmental agencies will hold a national webinar on 
legislation that affects Tribes. Again, this is a good starting point. 
But given the difficulties in communication with Indian communities, it 
is not enough. Moreover, there is limited opportunity on these calls 
for questions or comments.
    c.  Local engagement is best. Reach out to the Tribes by region or 
state. Make sure they are aware of the meetings by multiple methods--
email, phone and letter. Keep in mind that delivery by mail in Indian 
country is slower than much of the rest of the country. Add at least a 
week on the expected delivery date.
    d.  Engage with tribal organizations. This includes the National 
Congress of American Indians but also other groups such as the Tribal 
In House Counsel Association (TICA).
    e.  We often find that with important legislation such as the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, there are so many provisions 
affecting Indian Country that there can be a degree of ``information 
overload.'' Notices of funding opportunities come from multiple 
agencies with consultations at different times. In some cases, applying 
for one grant at one agency will result in being considered ineligible 
for another grant at a different agency. There is little or no 
coordination among government agencies. Having a single meeting 
discussing all funding opportunities coming out of a single piece of 
legislation would be helpful.
                      the honorable garret graves
    1. Chairman Baker, the hearing covered quite a bit of ground and 
there was limited time to respond to all that was covered. Are there 
any additional comments that you would like to share with the 
committee?

    Thank you, Representative Graves, for the opportunity to provide 
additional comments. We appreciate the opportunity to participate in 
the hearing ``Tribal Voices, Tribal Wisdom: Strategies for the Climate 
Crisis.'' We encourage the committee members, participants and other 
stakeholders to be open to new ideas and technologies that can be part 
of a potential solution to provide reliable, affordable, and carbon 
neutral energy to meet our country's needs, irrespective of the source. 
Due to history, many tribes in the United States and indigenous persons 
around the world have had to adapt in order to preserve their 
communities and cultures. The quicker we can open our minds to all 
possibilities and embrace working together with those who have 
different views, the quicker we can iterate potential solutions 
reducing the carbon footprint of human activity in the atmosphere.
    America's example is illustrative: in terms of fuel for our homes 
and industry we have progressed from wood to whale oil, then on to 
coal, oil and gas. We are in the transition from these traditional 
energy sources to renewable and other fuel sources.
    The support from Congress through renewable tax credits over the 
past two decades has allowed renewable technology to improve rapidly 
and for renewable energy supply to grow in the marketplace, becoming an 
instrumental part of the solution to a carbon neutral energy future. 
However, it is important for policy makers to acknowledge that all 
energy sources have an environmental impact and renewables alone will 
not solve all the energy challenges of the future due to their 
intermittency. We encourage all stakeholders and decision makers to not 
take a one-size-fits-all approach to energy sources and to be more open 
about deployment of new technology associated with all energy types. 
Different regions in the United States have their own unique 
characteristics and natural resources, so where solar power may be a 
good source of energy in one part of the country, it is not practical 
in other parts. Our energy policy needs to focus on utilizing the 
natural resources specific to each region in a responsible and carbon 
neutral way to meet the energy demands of the future. Fossil fuels have 
been mined and used for a century to greatly improve socioeconomic 
conditions for billions of people around the world. If we are open to 
new technologies, such as NET Power's Allam-Fetvedt power cycle, to 
generate baseload power to the grid in a carbon neutral way, a critical 
solution to providing affordable and reliable energy to the grid could 
be within reach in the next few years.
    In considering these options, it is always important to keep tribal 
sovereignty in mind. Too often we see the federal government imposing 
requirements on Tribes as it pertains to the energy sector that are 
actually detrimental to tribal economic growth. Since at least 1970, 
the Executive Branch and Congress have encouraged self-determination by 
Indian Tribes with the understanding that Tribes know best how to 
expand their economic base while controlling the environmental impact. 
We ask that this Committee keep this in mind while looking at the issue 
of climate change

    2. The United States has been the undisputed leader in carbon 
sequestration innovation. It is vital to look at the science and the 
facts regarding its viability and the huge global emissions reduction 
opportunities with successful deployment both here in the U.S. and 
worldwide. According to the experts, based on the science and the 
facts, carbon sequestration is safe, proven, and been widely used for 
decades. The referenced Department of Energy report \1\ makes several 
key points:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Safe Geologic Storage of Captured Carbon Dioxide: Two Decades 
of Doe's Carbon Storage R&D Program in Review, April 13, 2020 report.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.netl.doe.gov/sites/default/files/
Safe%20Geologic%20Storage%20of%20Captured%20
Carbon%20Dioxide_April%2015%202020_FINAL.pdf

       ``The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) has invested more than $1 
billion during the past two decades through its Carbon Storage Research 
and Development (R&D) Program to develop the technologies and 
capabilities for widespread commercial deployment of geologic storage. 
This investment has made DOE a leader in this worldwide effort.'' \2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Ibid.

       ``CCUS projects supported by DOE and other organizations around 
the world, which in 2019 injected more than 25 million metric tons of 
CO2, have shown no adverse impacts to human health or the 
environment. And no DOE supported project has observed migration of 
CO2 outside of the intended storage reservoir or confining 
cap rock.'' \3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ Ibid.

       ``The assurances we can make today about the secure storage of 
CO2 in deep geologic reservoirs are based on: (1) a 
foundation of nearly five decades of oil and gas industry experience 
injecting CO2 into oil- and gas-filled formations; (2) the 
20 years of technology advancements made from R&D programs like DOE's 
Carbon Storage Program; (3) field-testing campaigns, such as the 
Regional Carbon Sequestration partnerships (RCSPs) that have validated 
monitoring tools and strategies and developed best practices; (4) 
improved understanding of the physics, chemistry, and mechanics 
involved throughout the life of a CCUS project.'' \4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ Ibid.

       Given that the United States Department of Energy has worked on 
energy technologies for decades, spanning multiple administrations of 
both political parties, do you view them as a qualified expert when it 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
comes carbon capture and sequestration?

    The United States is the leader and should be considered the expert 
in carbon capture, utilization and storage (CCUS) as the U.S. DOE and 
industry have been working together for decades to understand 
reservoirs and technology associated with CCUS. CCUS will play a 
critical role in reducing carbon emissions associated with human 
activity in the earth's atmosphere through either direct air capture or 
through deployment of capturing carbon from industrial sources. 
Regarding sequestration, there are many known geologic sources of high-
purity carbon dioxide still producing high-purity carbon dioxide for 
industrial use today \5\ which have stored this gas for millions of 
years and could be used to store anthropogenic sources of carbon 
dioxide in the future. Furthermore, injection of carbon dioxide in 
underground reservoirs \6\ is a process for which industry has a high 
level of competency, given the decades of experience in enhanced oil 
recovery. Hydrocarbons have been removed from the earth for over a 
century and carbon has been emitted to the atmosphere as a result. 
Today, we have a better understanding of the impacts of carbon 
emissions, and we should work together to make every effort possible to 
minimize carbon emissions associated with human activity including 
placing the carbon back into the earth where it originally came from.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ Supply, Underground Injection, and Geologic Sequestration of 
Carbon Dioxide, as of August 7, 2021 published by the U.S. 
Environmental Protection Agency, located at https://
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.epa.gov/ghgreporting/supply-underground-injection-and-geologic-
sequestration-carbon-dioxide
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ Carbon Dioxide Enhanced Oil Recovery: Untapped Domestic Energy 
Supply and Long-Term Carbon Storage Solution, March 2010 report 
published by National Energy Technology Laboratory U.S. Department of 
Energy, located at
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.netl.doe.gov/sites/default/files/netl-file/
co2_eor_primer.pdf
    Finally, I would like to reiterate that solving our future energy 
challenges in a carbon neutral way is complex and we encourage everyone 
to keep an open mind and embrace new technology. The United States has 
consistently been the land of innovation and technological advancements 
for centuries and I am very optimistic that the U.S. will continue to 
lead on solving the future energy challenges here and be part of the 
solution around the world. We look forward to continuing to progress 
projects and ideas forward with industry, academia, and Congress. Thank 
you again for the opportunity to testify on this very important and 
complex subject. Committee members are welcome to visit our Reservation 
if you are ever in the Four Corners Region.

    Respectfully submitted,

    Melvin J. Baker, Chairman
    Southern Ute Indian Tribe

                        Questions for the Record

                          Dr. Casey Thornbrugh

                    Climate Change Program Manager, 

               United South and Eastern Tribes, Inc.; and

                    Tribal Climate Science Liaison, 

     DOI Northeast and Southeast Climate Adaptation Science Centers

                       the honorable kathy castor
    1. Dr. Thornbrugh, would you agree that to fight the climate crisis 
and adapt to its unavoidable impacts, all nations around the world must 
play their part to reduce carbon pollution and invest in resilient 
infrastructure?

    Yes, and this includes ensuring that Tribal Nations are included in 
broader plans, dialogue, and legislation, as the U.S. seeks to address 
the climate crisis. In fulfillment of the trust obligation, the federal 
government has an inherent responsibility to ensure the protection of 
the natural and cultural resources that support the health and wellness 
of Tribal communities, as well as to support Tribal sovereignty and 
self-determination. Therefore, it is critical that Tribal Nations have 
access to the necessary resources to address the effects of climate 
change within our communities.

    2. Dr. Thornbrugh, the Build Back Better Act contains incentives 
like tax credits for new and used electric vehicles and investments in 
electric vehicle charging as well as rebates for residential appliance 
and equipment electrification. Would you agree that these types of 
investments can help reduce U.S. demand for oil and gas? If other 
nations, including in Europe, made similar investments, would that help 
reduce global demand for oil and gas?

    Yes, though we note that electric vehicles generate their own 
environmental issues, particularly with battery lifecycle management; 
and vehicle charging stations present concerns, particularly if the 
energy source is from a coal-fired power plant. This issue is more 
complex and a suite of actions including reduction in oil and gas 
demand is needed to avoid unintended consequences. We urge Congress and 
the Administration to work nationally and internationally to reduce 
greenhouse gas emissions in order to mitigate the impacts from Climate 
Change.
                      the honorable garret graves
    1. Clearly from your testimony you are concerned with global 
emissions. From a pure scientific standpoint and from a global 
emissions perspective, is there any difference between a ton of 
CO2 emitted from China versus a ton of CO2 from 
the U.S?

    It is critically important that all nations, including the United 
States and China, work to reduce emissions globally in order to 
mitigate Climate Change impacts.

    2. We know from a 2019 study by the Department of Energy's national 
labs that U.S. LNG exports to Europe have a 41% lower emissions profile 
than Russia natural gas to Europe. We know from what President Biden's 
own Department of Energy said last month, that there isn't a single 
scenario where demand for natural gas doesn't go up over the next 30 
years.
    From the standpoint of global emissions, who would be best to 
supply that natural gas--U.S. LNG or Russian gas that comes with at 
least 41% higher emissions?

    While the United South and Eastern Tribes Sovereignty Protection 
Fund does not have a position on domestic energy production outside of 
Indian Country, such as natural gas pipelines, we-in the strongest 
possible terms-insist that any expansion of this infrastructure in the 
United States requires Tribal consultation and the avoidance of any 
impacts to Tribal sovereignty, sacred sites, or public health.
    Further, USET/USET SPF member Tribal Nations, and those respective 
Tribal lands and energy resources, are located within a large region 
that presents diverse geographical environments and opportunities for 
both conventional and renewable energy development. Our member Tribal 
Nations could benefit from the unlocked potential of those energy 
resources and realize energy development goals, through appropriate 
Congressional action and investment in Indian Country; and further 
actions by the Administration, particularly to promote balanced 
geographical representation and inclusion of USET SPF member Tribal 
Nations in energy programs.
    USET SPF has established its energy priorities, as follows:

          Tribal self-determination and control of natural 
        resources and energy assets, to make conservation and 
        development decisions to preserve Tribal sovereignty, protect 
        Tribal assets, and to achieve economic independence, creation 
        of jobs, and improvement of Tribal members' standard of living.
          Tribal capacity building effort involving multiple 
        federal agencies, universities, and the private sector.
          Reform core federal programs, expertise, and funding 
        to support Tribal energy resource development and market 
        access.
          Remove barriers to the deployment of Tribal energy 
        resources, such as bureaucratic processes, insufficient access 
        to financial incentives, and interconnection and transmission 
        on power grid.
                    the honorable a. donald mceachin
    1. When drafting the Environmental Justice for All Act, it was 
critical that Chairman Grijalva and I get feedback from a variety of 
stakeholders on the legislation, including from Tribal and Indigenous 
leaders.
    As new policies are created, and grants are distributed from the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act can you please clarify how you 
feel the federal government can best ensure meaningful stakeholder 
engagement, including the types of engagement that would be most 
helpful?

    As the federal government works to implement the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA), it is critical to understand that 
Tribal Nations are not merely stakeholders. Our relationship with the 
United States is political, and its accordant responsibilities are 
unique, separate from, and supersede any responsibilities the federal 
government has to other communities. As such, meaningful Tribal 
consultation must occur as new policies are created and funding is 
distributed. Meaningful Tribal consultation involves seeking guidance 
and input from Tribal Nations, and then implementing that guidance in 
the administration of IIJA. As the IIJA is implemented, federal trust 
and treaty obligations should be paramount. Tribal sovereignty should 
be honored fully, especially regarding decisions about climate-friendly 
and other development on our homelands. In distributing funds to Tribal 
Nations under IIJA, the federal government should focus on the 
following:

          Rapid, equitable deployment of funds using existing 
        funding mechanisms, including Indian Self-Determination and 
        Education Assistance Act (ISDEAA) contracts and compacts, and 
        avoiding competitive grants or matching requirements;
          Affording Tribal Nations maximum flexibility in the 
        use of all funding allocated under IIJA; and
          Ensuring Tribal Nations are not subject to burdensome 
        administrative requirements for use of these funds. This 
        includes application, reporting, audit, or other types of 
        compliance requirements.

                        Questions for the Record

                              Pilar Thomas

    Partner, Energy, Environment & Natural Resources Practice Group

                          Quarles & Brady LLP

                       the honorable kathy castor
    1. Ms. Thomas, can you describe some of the ways the Biden 
Administration is working to improve Tribal consultation and strengthen 
relationships with Tribal Nations?

    On January 26, 2021, President Biden issued a Presidential 
Memorandum on Tribal Consultation and Strengthening Nation to Nation 
Relationships.\1\ The Presidential Memorandum requires the federal 
agencies (but not the independent agencies) to revisit, review and 
revise their tribal consultation policies, and to provide regular 
reporting to the Office of Management and Budget on tribal consultation 
policies and efforts. In response to this Memorandum, the federal 
agencies engaged tribes through consultation to provide input and 
feedback on current federal tribal consultation policies, including, 
for the first time the Office of Management and Budget.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/
2021/01/26/memorandum-on-tribal-consultation-and-strengthening-nation-
to-nation-relationships/
    \2\ https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/tribal-consultation/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In addition, as announced at the White House Tribal Nations 
Conference, several executive agency initiatives to promote 
consultation and nation to nation relationships include the Joint 
Secretarial Order with the USDA and DOI regarding tribal participation 
in federal land management decisions \3\ and an Memorandum of 
Understanding between multiple federal agencies related to protection 
of treaty rights and sacred sites.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/elips/documents/so-
3403-joint-secretarial-order-on-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
fulfilling-the-trust-responsibility-to-indian-tribes-in-the-
stewardship-of-federal-lands-and-waters.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/mou-interagency-
coordination-and-collaboration-for-the-protection-of-indigenous-sacred-
sites-11-16-2021.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Several federal agencies, including Interior, EPA and USDA, have 
initiated consultation on major agency actions--such as EPA's review of 
regulations related to the Clean Water Act and Clean Air Act; 
Interior's implementation of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs 
Act; and USDA tribal food sovereignty and related initiatives. These 
efforts are re-invigorating the federal-tribal relationship and 
promoting more involvement and collaboration in implementing federal 
programs. However, there are still some major gaps in consultation 
efforts, especially for the Bi-partisan Infrastructure Bill, including 
lack of consultation sessions scheduled for Department of Energy and 
Department of Transportation.

    2. Ms. Thomas, do you believe that technologies like grid-scale 
storage and demand response can help achieve a more flexible grid that 
can integrate higher levels of renewable energy as we phase out 
unabated fossil fuel-fired electricity generation?

    While this is a highly technical technology issue, grid operators 
are developing the tools and technologies to address this aspect of 
grid management. Grid-scale storage and demand response will only go so 
far though. Demand response is especially challenging given the very 
diffuse use of power--it is almost irrelevant, for example, in the 
residential sector.\5\ It is also more challenging as more distributed 
energy resources are deployed through community scale projects, rooftop 
solar, and other distribution system level energy generation systems 
such as microgrids.\6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ Although technology improvements, such as smart meters, 
programmable thermostats and appliances that can communicate with the 
utility, are creating increasing opportunities for utility residential 
demand side management programs. https://www.utilitydive.com/news/
welcoming-the-next-generation-residential-demand-response-30/551947/
    \6\ https://www.woodmac.com/news/opinion/time-resi-demand-response-
shine-summer-2020/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Furthermore, while demand response is helpful for addressing peak 
demand issues, it is not typically used for firming or dispatching 
power. In that regard, other clean energy technologies that generate 
firm and/or dispatchable power can also provide grid services to create 
flexibility and integration support--such as geothermal, waste-to-
energy, and other renewable fuels (like landfill gas).

    3. Ms. Thomas, should Congress explore strategies to reduce the 
carbon footprint of the manufacturing of climate solutions like wind 
and solar energy while supporting the transition to a clean energy 
economy?

    I'm not entirely clear on the question. I interpret it to mean are 
there strategies or mechanisms related to the reduction of the carbon 
footprint of the manufacturing of wind turbines or solar panels. If 
this is the correct interpretation, then my response is--Yes, Congress 
should explore such strategies. For example, President Biden and 
members of Congress have promoted the ``on-shoring'' of the clean 
energy supply chain. This supply chain includes mining, manufacturing, 
and assembling the materials needed for clean energy projects 
(batteries, solar panels, wind turbines). While this discussion has 
occurred in the context of creating new jobs in the U.S., moving 
manufacturing and assembly closer to the location of projects will 
necessarily reduce the carbon footprint--through reduced transportation 
carbon emissions. One such strategy might be to provide additional 
federal incentives to manufacturers that locate on Indian lands--since 
those lands are likely to be closer to large utility scale solar and 
wind projects.

                                  [all]