    [House Hearing, 117 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                             STRENGTHENING THE U.S.
                           MICROELECTRONICS WORKFORCE

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                    SUBCOMMITTEE ON RESEARCH AND TECHNOLOGY

                                     OF THE

                          COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE,
                                 AND TECHNOLOGY

                                     OF THE

                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                               FEBRUARY 15, 2022

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 117-44

                                   __________

     Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology

     [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

           Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov

                                  __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    46-798 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2023

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY

                 HON. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas, Chairwoman
    ZOE LOFGREN, California              FRANK LUCAS, Oklahoma,
    SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon                 Ranking Member
    AMI BERA, California                 MO BROOKS, Alabama
    HALEY STEVENS, Michigan,             BILL POSEY, Florida
        Vice Chair                       RANDY WEBER, Texas
    MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey           BRIAN BABIN, Texas
    JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York              ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
    MELANIE A. STANSBURY, New Mexico     MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida
    BRAD SHERMAN, California             JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana
    ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado              DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida
    JERRY McNERNEY, California           MIKE GARCIA, California
    PAUL TONKO, New York                 STEPHANIE I. BICE, Oklahoma
    BILL FOSTER, Illinois                YOUNG KIM, California
    DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey          RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa
    DON BEYER, Virginia                  JAKE LaTURNER, Kansas
    CHARLIE CRIST, Florida               CARLOS A. GIMENEZ, Florida
    SEAN CASTEN, Illinois                JAY OBERNOLTE, California
    CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania             PETER MEIJER, Michigan
    DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina         JAKE ELLZEY, TEXAS
    GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin                MIKE CAREY, OHIO
    DAN KILDEE, Michigan
    SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
    LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
                                     ------

                    Subcommittee on Research and Technology

                    HON. HALEY STEVENS, Michigan, Chairwoman
    MELANIE A. STANSBURY, New Mexico     RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa,
    PAUL TONKO, New York                     Ranking Member
    GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin                ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
    SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania             JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana
    BILL FOSTER, Illinois                JAKE LaTURNER, Kansas
    CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania             PETER MEIJER, Michigan
    DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina         JAKE ELLZEY, TEXAS

                             C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                               February 15, 2022

                                                                       Page

    Hearing Charter..................................................     2

                               Opening Statements

    Statement by Representative Haley Stevens, Chairwoman,
      Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science,
      Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........     9
        Written Statement............................................    10

    Statement by Representative Randy Feenstra, Ranking Member,
      Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science,
      Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........    11
        Written Statement............................................    12

    Statement by Representative Frank Lucas, Ranking Member,
      Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of
      Representatives................................................    14
        Written Statement............................................    15

    Written statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson,
      Chairwoman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S.
      House of Representatives.......................................    16

                                   Witnesses:

    Ms. Shari Liss, Executive Director of the SEMI Foundation
        Oral Statement...............................................    17
        Written Statement............................................    20

    Dr. Osama Awadelkarim, UNESCO Chair Professor and Director of the
      Center for Nanotechnology Education and Utilization (CNEU) at
      Pennsylvania State University
        Oral Statement...............................................    28
        Written Statement............................................    30

    Dr. Tsu-Jae King Liu, Dean and Roy W. Carlson Professor of
      Engineering at the University of California, Berkeley
        Oral Statement...............................................    46
        Written Statement............................................    48

    Discussion.......................................................    55

                  Appendix: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions

    Ms. Shari Liss, Executive Director of the SEMI Foundation........    78

    Dr. Osama Awadelkarim, UNESCO Chair Professor and Director of the
      Center for Nanotechnology Education and Utilization (CNEU) at
      Pennsylvania State University..................................    84

    Dr. Tsu-Jae King Liu, Dean and Roy W. Carlson Professor of
      Engineering at the University of California, Berkeley..........    86

                             STRENGTHENING THE U.S.
                           MICROELECTRONICS WORKFORCE

                                  ----------

                           TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2022

                      House of Representatives,
               Subcommittee on Research and Technology,
                   Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
                                                       Washington, D.C.

        The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., via
    Zoom, Hon. Haley Stevens [Chairwoman of the Subcommittee]
    presiding.
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairwoman Stevens. The hearing will come to order. Without
    objection, the Chair is authorized to declare recess at any
    time.
        Just a couple of notes that the hearing today is clearly
    meeting virtually. And of course the usual reminders to Members
    about the conduct of the hearing, keeping video feed on for
    Members as long as folks are present in the hearing. And
    Members are also responsible for their own microphones.
    Certainly, keep your microphones muted unless you are speaking.
    And finally, if Members have documents they wish to submit for
    the record, please email them to the Committee Clerk, whose
    email address was circulated, as always, prior to the hearing.
        And with that, good morning. Good early morning, very early
    morning to some of you, and welcome to this incredibly
    important and exciting hearing on strengthening the U.S.
    microelectronics work force. And a warm welcome to our
    distinguished panel of witnesses. Today's hearing is going to
    pick up where we left off in December from our Full Committee
    hearing on American microelectronics manufacturing.
        Today, we are focused on the challenge of building up a
    microelectronics work force in the United States of America to
    fill the new fabs and R&D (research and development) facilities
    that will be supported under the CHIPS for America Act.
    Investing in the semiconductor work force is certainly
    essential to our country's success as we re-shore American
    manufacturing and maintain the American lead in technological
    innovations.
        Also, American manufacturing is near and dear to the heart
    of many on this Committee and certainly yours truly. Many of us
    have spent time exploring manufacturing challenges. I do so
    locally through a program called Manufacturing Monday where I
    visit once a week suppliers and small, midsized manufacturers,
    geek out with their technology, learn who their work force is,
    start to understand what their challenges are, and seek to
    bring that back to Congress.
        Sponsoring and championing legislation to strengthen
    American manufacturing through the Manufacturing USA and
    Manufacturing Extension Partnership Program have been
    cornerstones of the work of this Committee and certainly this
    Subcommittee. And many of us are also a part of the Democratic
    Manufacturing Working Group that continues to usher in
    legislation to support the American advanced manufacturing
    sector.
        So it's no doubt that manufacturing is the lifeblood of the
    American economy. The CHIPS for America Act, enacted in 2020
    through an authorization, will help revitalize American
    semiconductor manufacturing through a whole-of-government
    approach. The authorization to the Department of Commerce is to
    create several key programs to grow domestic capacity in
    microelectronics. Funding for the programs included in the
    America COMPETES Act, which passed the House of Representatives
    earlier this month and is waiting for final passage. When
    implemented, the programs are estimated to create more than
    40,000 new semiconductor jobs, making today's hearing very
    timely.
        The CHIPS Act addressed the work force as a key component
    of our authorized programs. But today's hearing is also not
    bounded by what's just exclusively in the CHIPS Act. We're
    taking a higher-level look at challenges and opportunities to
    build and expand the semiconductor work force, certainly
    exploring diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) to have an
    equitable work force that seeks to bring in American talent
    from all corridors of this country, something that we have
    explored at length in previous Committee hearings as it
    pertains to the NSF for the Future Act.
        Semiconductor manufacturing jobs are good, high-paying
    careers. The semiconductor industry hires from a wide range of
    educational backgrounds--that's key, a wide range of
    educational backgrounds--with about half of the current work
    force holding an associate's degree. Semiconductor employees
    across all education levels make about 65 percent more than
    their peers in other sectors. These are also steady and safe
    careers with ample room for growth and widely transferable
    skills. Yet, we have heard from industry and educators alike
    about how students, veterans, other displaced workers just are
    not aware of semiconductor careers and so they do not pursue
    the training needed to enter this field.
        I am wondering today, and I hope we do hear today, how
    Congress can not only help raise awareness and inspire more
    workers to enter into this field but to also think about the
    programs, career and technical education, that are going to be
    essential to revitalizing this work force across all education
    levels to meet current work force needs.
        Today, we will also explore how to build and sustain more
    educational and training programs across the board, certainly
    some that Congress touches, as well as other public-private
    partnership programs and initiatives taking place at the
    charitable and foundation level. We certainly have an
    incredible and seasoned panel here with us today who have
    worked through many of the issues firsthand. Collectively, they
    have created community college and hands-on capstone
    certificates, apprenticeship, and veteran training programs,
    developed K through 12 outreach, and led cutting-edge research
    programs. Each of these components will be necessary to build
    the American semiconductor work force of our future.
        And as a reminder, folks, we invented this industry. We
    innovated this industry. And it is ours for the taking and to
    employ people in.
        So thank you again to our witnesses for being here today.
    I, among many of my colleagues, look forward to your insightful
    testimony.
        [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Stevens follows:]

        Good morning and welcome to this important hearing on
    strengthening the U.S. Microelectronics Workforce. And a warm
    welcome to our distinguished panel of witnesses.
        Today's hearing will pick up where we left off in
    December's Full Committee hearing on American microelectronics
    manufacturing. Today we are focusing on the challenge of
    building up a microelectronics workforce to fill the new fabs
    and R&D facilities that will be supported under the CHIPS for
    America Act. Investing in the semiconductor workforce is
    essential to our country's success as we re-shore American
    manufacturing and maintain the American lead in technological
    innovations.
        If you know me, you know that manufacturing is near and
    dear to my heart. Since coming to Congress, I have sought to
    understand manufacturing challenges through weekly
    Manufacturing Monday visits, and I have sponsored legislation
    to strengthen American manufacturing through Manufacturing USA
    and the Manufacturing Extension Partnership Program. Last year,
    I launched the House Democratic Manufacturing Working Group.
        Manufacturing is the lifeblood of the American economy. The
    CHIPS for America Act, enacted in 2020, will help revitalize
    American semiconductor manufacturing through a whole-of-
    government approach. It authorizes the Department of Commerce
    to create several key programs to grow domestic capacity in
    microelectronics. Funding for these programs is including in
    the America COMPETES Act, which passed the House of
    Representatives earlier this month. When implemented, these
    programs are estimated to create more than 40,000 new
    semiconductor jobs, making today's hearing very timely. The
    CHIPS Act did address workforce as a key component of the
    authorized programs. But today's hearing is not bounded by
    what's in the CHIPS Act. We are taking a higher-level look at
    challenges and opportunities to build and expand the
    semiconductor workforce.
        Semiconductor manufacturing jobs are good, high-paying
    careers. The semiconductor industry hires from a wide range of
    educational backgrounds, with about half of the current
    workforce holding an associate's degree or less. Semiconductor
    employees across all education levels make about 65% more than
    their peers in other sectors. These are also steady and safe
    careers with ample room for growth and widely transferable
    skills. Yet, we've heard from industry and educators alike
    about how students, veterans, and displaced workers just aren't
    aware of semiconductor careers and so don't pursue the training
    needed to enter this field. I'm wondering, and I hope we hear
    today, how Congress can help raise awareness and inspire more
    workers to enter this field.
        Awareness is not the only hurdle. There are currently not
    enough programs, across all educational levels, to meet current
    workforce needs. Today we will also explore how to build and
    sustain more education and training programs.
        We have an incredible, seasoned panel here today who have
    worked through many of the issues firsthand. Collectively they
    have created community college and hands-on capstone
    certificates, apprenticeship, and Veteran training programs,
    developed K-12 outreach, and led cutting-edge research
    programs. Each of these components will be necessary to build
    the American semiconductor workforce of our future.
        Thank you to our witnesses for being here today, and doing
    the great work you do, I'm looking forward to your insightful
    testimony.

        Chairwoman Stevens. And with that, the Chair is going to
    recognize my dear friend and good colleague from the State of
    Iowa, Mr. Feenstra, for an opening statement.
        Mr. Feenstra. Thank you, Chairwoman Stevens.
        And before I begin discussing today's hearing, I would
    first like to say how thrilled I am to be named the new Ranking
    Member of Research and Technology Subcommittee. I am truly
    grateful to Ranking Member Lucas for asking me to serve in this
    role. As I take this new responsibility, I look forward to
    continuing the tradition of my predecessors, Ranking Member
    Waltz, Ranking Member Baird, and working in a productive and
    bipartisan manner. And, Chairwoman Stevens, I hope that we can
    continue to build on our friendship and work together to
    deliver on the important matters before this Subcommittee, like
    the focus of today's hearing.
        Today, we will be examining how our U.S. work force can
    meet the current and future demands of domestic advanced
    manufacturing in the semiconductor sector. I appreciate each of
    our witnesses for taking the time to speak with us today and
    sharing their experience. I suspect every American has been
    impacted in some way by the global supply chain disruption for
    semiconductors or chips. Semiconductors have grown to become an
    essential part of our modern lives. In Iowa, they are nearly
    every--in everything that we do from our tractors to our semi-
    trucks to our smartphones. With such an important industry, we
    are making a mistake in keeping so much of our manufacturing
    capacity offshore.
        The U.S. share of global semiconductor manufacturing
    decreased from 37 percent in 1990 to just 12 percent today. The
    CHIPS for America Act is a bipartisan, bicameral effort to
    reestablish America's leadership in semiconductor chip
    manufacturing. Funding the CHIPS Act should be the top priority
    for Congress. We can and should pass this funding cleanly.
    Instead, 2 weeks ago, the Speaker used the CHIPS Act, along
    with 12 other bipartisan SST (Science, Space, and Technology)
    bills, to move the partisan COMPETES Act through the House. A
    partisan superbill is not the way to get this important
    legislation done.
        Relying on offshore manufacturing has led to supply chain
    bottlenecks, a rising cost of materials, and a decrease of
    American influence worldwide. We must ensure that the United
    States is a leader in producing semiconductors to bolster our
    national security and decrease the influence of the Chinese
    Communist Party worldwide. China continues to make record-
    breaking investments in R&D and the semiconductor industry. By
    funding the CHIPS Act, the United States can help to solidify
    international leadership in advanced manufacturing for years to
    come.
        The CHIPS Act will likely generate tens of thousands of new
    manufacturing jobs in both high-skilled and trade-focused
    roles. This comes as manufacturing companies are already facing
    difficulty finding skilled workers. Meeting and growing--
    meeting the growing demand for the skilled work force will be a
    critical factor in successfully growing our semiconductor
    sector.
        Today, we will examine how the manufacturing industry,
    community colleges, and higher education institutes can work
    together collaboratively to solve these problems. I'm looking
    forward to hearing from our witnesses and the panel on the
    ideas that they have to build out STEM (science, technology,
    engineering, and mathematics)--the STEM pipeline in this space
    and how we should be thinking about leveraging existing
    partnerships. I am particularly interested in how we can
    capitalize on the expertise of our military veterans and
    encourage industry to tap into this talent pool.
        The CHIPS Act is a great step toward American investment in
    the semiconductor industry, but it's only the first step. The
    Committee should continue to consider how we are connecting
    Americans with these good, high-wage STEM jobs across our
    country. We are at a pivotal moment where Americans are
    thinking about a career change, and this conversation about
    workforce opportunities could not be more timely.
        Thank you, Madam Chair, and I yield back the balance of my
    time.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Feenstra follows:]

        Thank you, Chairwoman Stevens.Before I begin discussing
    today's hearing, I would first like to say how thrilled I am to
    be named the new Ranking Member of the Research and Technology
    Subcommittee. I am grateful to Ranking Member Lucas for asking
    me to serve in this role. As I take on this new responsibility,
    I look forward to continuing the tradition of my predecessors,
    Ranking Member Waltz and Ranking Member Baird, in working in a
    productive and bipartisan manner. Chairwoman Stevens, I hope we
    can continue to build on our friendship and work together to
    deliver on the important matters before this subcommittee, like
    the focus of today's hearing.
        Today we will be examining how our U.S. workforce can meet
    the current and future demands of domestic advanced
    manufacturing in the semiconductor sector. I appreciate each of
    our witnesses for taking the time to speak with us today and
    sharing their expertise.
        I suspect every American has been impacted in some way by
    the global supply chain disruption for semiconductors or
    ``chips.'' Semiconductors have grown to become an essential
    part of our modern lives--in Iowa they're in nearly everything
    from tractors and semi-trucks, to smartphones. With such an
    important industry, we are making a mistake in keeping so much
    of our manufacturing capacity offshore. The U.S. share of
    global semiconductor manufacturing decreased from 37 percent in
    1990 to just 12 percent today.
        The CHIPS for America Act is a bipartisan, bicameral effort
    to reestablish America's leadership in semiconductor chip
    manufacturing. Funding the CHIPS Act should be a top priority
    for Congress. We can and should pass this funding cleanly.
    Instead, two weeks ago the Speaker used the CHIPS Act, along
    with 12 other bipartisan SST bills, to move the partisan
    COMPETES Act through the House. A partisan ``super bill'' is
    not the way to get this important legislation done.
        Relying on offshore manufacturing has led to supply chain
    bottlenecks, a rising cost of materials, and a decrease of
    American influence worldwide. We must ensure that the United
    States is a leader in producing semiconductors to bolster our
    national security and decrease the influence of the Chinese
    Communist Party worldwide. China continues to make record-
    breaking investments in R&D and the semiconductor industry.
        By funding the CHIPS Act, the United States can help to
    solidify international leadership in advanced manufacturing for
    years to come. The CHIPS Act will likely generate tens of
    thousands of manufacturing jobs in both high-skilled and trade-
    focused roles. This comes as manufacturing companies are
    already facing difficulty finding skilled workers. Meeting the
    growing demand for a skilled workforce will be a critical
    factor in successfully growing our semiconductor sector.
        Today we will examine how the manufacturing industry,
    community colleges, and higher education institutes can work
    together to solve this problem. I am looking forward to hearing
    from our great witness panel about ideas they have to build up
    the STEM pipeline in this space, and how we should be thinking
    about leveraging existing partnerships. I am particularly
    interested in how we can capitalize on the expertise of our
    military veterans and encourage industry to tap into this
    talent pool.
        The CHIPS Act is a great step towards American investment
    in the semiconductor industry, but it is only the first step.
    The Committee should continue to consider how we are connecting
    Americans with these good, high-wage STEM jobs across the
    country.
        We are at a pivotal moment where many Americans are
    thinking about a career change, and this conversation about
    workforce opportunities could not be more timely.
        Thank you, Madam Chair and yield back the balance of my
    time.

        Chairwoman Stevens. Well, thank you, Representative
    Feenstra, and, again, welcome to the role as Ranking Member of
    the best Subcommittee on House Science, Space, and Technology,
    Research and Tech. Thank you for your introductory remarks.
        And at this time I would just like to take a minute to
    introduce our witnesses. Our first witness is Ms. Shari Liss,
    the Executive Director of the SEMI Foundation. The Foundation
    focuses on workforce development programs in diversity, equity,
    and inclusion initiatives supporting more than 2,400 companies
    within the microelectronics industry. Prior to her role at the
    Foundation, she served as the CEO (Chief Executive Officer) of
    the Ignited, a STEM teacher professional development
    organization and as a teacher and curriculum developer serving
    in a variety of positions with a focus on mathematics and at-
    risk students.
        Our next witness is Dr. Osama Awadelkarim. He is the UNESCO
    (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural
    Organization) Chair for Building Innovation and Manufacturing
    Capacities through Advanced Technology Education, and Professor
    of Engineering Science and Mechanics at the University--excuse
    me, at Pennsylvania State University. Dr. Awadelkarim also
    serves as the Director of the Center for Nanotechnology
    Education and Utilization (CNEU) and the National Science
    Foundation (NSF) Nanotechnology Applications and Career
    Knowledge (NACK) Resource Center. His education contributions
    focus on nanotechnology, workforce development, and on
    nanotechnology secondary and postsecondary education. His
    research interests are in electronic materials and devices.
        Our third witness is Dr. Tsu-Jae King Liu. Dr. Liu is the
    Dean of the College of Engineering and the Roy W. Carlson
    Professor of Engineering at the University of California (UC)
    Berkeley. Since joining UC Berkeley in 1996, she has taught and
    conducted research on semiconductor logic and memory devices
    and technology. As Dean, Dr. Liu has bolstered programs to
    support the academic success and well-being of both
    undergraduate and graduate engineering students. Throughout her
    career, she has actively engaged in efforts to diversify the K
    through 12 pipelines to engineering degree programs to support
    the success of women and students from underrepresented
    minority groups and first-generation college students and to
    increase the diversity of engineering graduate students and
    faculty.
        And we do have our Ranking Member of the Full Committee on
    here today, which I noticed Mr. Frank Lucas, and so I would at
    this time like to turn the--before we hear from our witnesses,
    and thank you for indulging their incredible backgrounds, we
    will hear from Mr. Lucas for an opening statement. We do not
    have our Full Committee Chairwoman, Congresswoman Eddie Bernice
    Johnson, with us, so we'll hear from Mr. Lucas, and then we'll
    go to witness testimony. So with that, Mr. Lucas, an opening
    statement.
        Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Chairwoman Stevens, and I appreciate
    the traditional courtesy and for holding this hearing this
    morning.
        I'm thrilled to welcome Representative Feenstra to the
    first hearing as Ranking Member of the Science--of the Research
    and Technology Committee. In his time on the Science Committee
    Representative Feenstra has already shown leadership on
    critical issues and offered legislation to help protect our
    research from foreign theft, expand research in the development
    of biofuels, and improving bioengineering. He understands that
    innovative science and technology are key to growing the
    American economy.
        I would also like to thank Representative Waltz for his
    service. He did a tremendous job developing a bipartisan
    legislative package to double down on our investments in basic
    research, improve U.S. research security, and set a strategic
    course for American science and technology development. I wish
    him well in his leadership role in the Armed Services
    Committee.
        Again, thank you, Chairwoman Stevens, for letting me start
    with that sidebar and now turning to today's hearing.
        I'm looking forward to examining our current semiconductor
    education and training pipeline and how we can meet the
    critical workforce needs of the U.S. microelectronics industry.
    Microelectronics are critical to how we live and work. They
    power phones. They make our cars safer, our homes smarter, and
    help us store and protect vital information.
        At a hearing our Committee held in December, we heard
    testimony about the factors contributing to global chip supply
    chain shortage. It is disrupting many industries and affecting
    consumers. We also heard testimony on the potential threat of
    countries like China controlling the chip market. Congress is
    now looking to make investments to increase the domestic
    production of chips to protect our economy and national
    security. It took the first steps to address this issue last
    year by passing the CHIPS for America Act, which authorized
    programs to advance U.S. research development, promote industry
    and government partnerships, and incentivize domestic
    fabrication of chips. The next step is to provide the necessary
    funding.
        While I don't agree with the Speaker's strategy to move
    chips funding through the House as a part of a massive partisan
    package, I think it's time to come together to address our
    future domestic chip needs as soon as possible, but our
    investments in microelectronics research and development and
    construction of new fabrication facilities will be wasted if we
    don't have the domestic workforce to support that industry. We
    must ensure we have a strong STEM workforce in the United
    States to meet the oncoming demand.
        If the CHIPS Act is fully funded at the current proposed
    level, it is estimated to create 42,000 semiconductor jobs. We
    need to fill them. That demand is even higher when we consider
    the full spectrum of workers needed to support that industry
    from skilled technicians and operators with associate degrees
    to those with advanced degrees. For example, we'll need
    scientists to achieve fundamental breakthroughs in
    microelectronics technology for us to harness the technologies
    of the future such as artificial intelligence (AI), 5G, quantum
    sciences. We will need engineers and software developers to
    package the microelectronics. We will need technicians to
    operate the cleanrooms at the fabs.
        Today's hearing should provide examples of innovative
    training models that not only train new employees but also
    retrain and upskill existing members of the workforce,
    including departing members of the military.
        I also look forward to hearing how Congress can capitalize
    on existing Federal investments through public-private
    partnerships and how we can provide our youngest students with
    the skills to become STEM-literate. I strongly believe that to
    remain competitive, attract job-creators, and meet our own
    needs for an evolving workforce, we need to take full advantage
    of America's full talent pool, no matter their ZIP code.
        I hope our witnesses will be able to provide the insights
    on how we can assure broad access to semiconductor education
    and development and solid retention of STEM employees in the
    semiconductor industry.
        I want to again thank our witnesses for taking the time to
    join us today and share their expertise. I yield back the
    balance of my time, Madam Chairman.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Lucas follows:]

        Thank you, Chairwoman Stevens, for holding this morning's
    hearing.
        I'm thrilled to welcome Representative Feenstra to his
    first hearing as Ranking Member of the Research and Technology
    Committee. In his time on the Science Committee, Rep. Feenstra
    has already shown leadership on crucial issues and authored
    legislation to help protect our research from foreign theft,
    expand research and development of biofuels, and improve
    bioengineering. He understands that innovative science and
    technology are key to growing the American economy.
        I would also like to thank Representative Waltz for his
    service. He did a tremendous job developing a bipartisan
    legislative package to double down on our investments in basic
    research, improve U.S. research security, and set a strategic
    course for American scientific and technological development. I
    wish him well in his leadership role on the Armed Services
    Committee.
        Thank you, Chairwoman Stevens, for letting me start with
    that sidebar. And now, turning to today's hearing, I'm looking
    forward to examining our current semiconductor education and
    training pipelines and how we can meet the critical workforce
    needs of the U.S. microelectronics industry.
        Microelectronics are critical to how we live and work. They
    power our phones, make our cars safer, our homes smarter, and
    help us store and protect vital information.
        At a hearing our Committee held in December, we heard
    testimony about the factors contributing to a global chip
    supply chain shortage that is disrupting many industries and
    affecting consumers. We also heard testimony on the potential
    threat of countries like China controlling the chip market.
        Congress is now looking to make investments to increase the
    domestic production of chips to protect our economic and
    national security. It took the first steps to address this
    issue last year by passing the CHIPS for America Act, which
    authorized programs to advance U.S. research and development,
    promote industry and government partnerships, and incentivize
    domestic fabrication of chips.
        The next step is to provide the necessary funding. While I
    don't agree with the Speaker's strategy to move Chips funding
    through the House as part of a massive partisan package, I
    think it's time to come together to address our future domestic
    chip needs as soon as possible.
        But our investments in microelectronics research and
    development and construction of new fabrication facilities will
    be wasted if we don't have the domestic workforce to support
    the industry. We must ensure we have a strong STEM workforce in
    the United States to meet the oncoming demand. If the CHIPS Act
    is fully funded at the current proposed level, it is estimated
    to create 42,000 new semiconductor jobs.
        We need to fill them. That demand is even higher when we
    consider the full spectrum of workers needed to support this
    industry--from skilled technicians and operators with associate
    degrees to those with advanced degrees. For example:
        We will need scientists to achieve fundamental
    breakthroughs in microelectronics technology for us to harness
    the technologies of the future, such as artificial
    intelligence, 5G, and quantum sciences.
        We will need engineers and software developers to package
    the microelectronics. We will need technicians to operate the
    cleanrooms at the fabs.
        Today's hearing should provide examples of innovative
    training models that not only train new employees, but also
    retrain and upskill existing members of the workforce,
    including departing members of the military.
        I also look forward to hearing how Congress can capitalize
    on existing federal investments through public-private
    partnerships and how we can provide our youngest students with
    the skills to become STEM-literate.
        I strongly believe that to remain competitive, attract job
    creators, and meet our own needs for an evolving workforce, we
    need to take full advantage of America's full talent pool, no
    matter their zip code. I hope our witnesses will be able to
    provide insights on how we can ensure broad access to
    semiconductor education and employment and solid retention of
    STEM employees in the semiconductor industry.
        I want to again thank our witnesses for taking the time to
    join us today and share their expertise. I yield back the
    balance of my time.

         [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Johnson follows:]

        Thank you Chairwoman Stevens and Ranking Member Feenstra
    for holding this morning's hearing on strengthening our
    nation's microelectronics workforce. I want to welcome and
    thank the expert witnesses for their testimony.
        We spend a lot of time in the Science Committee focusing on
    the challenges to growing a skilled STEM workforce for the 21st
    Century. I am proud that many provisions in the America
    COMPETES Act, which passed the House earlier this month, would
    help address some of those challenges. While we need to develop
    the STEM pipeline across all fields, there are particular
    fields for which the gap between supply and demand is
    especially acute. Microelectronics is one such field.
        The semiconductor industry is no stranger to labor supply
    challenges. In 2018, the Semiconductor Industry Association
    noted there were thousands of unfilled technical positions
    across the country. This labor shortage has only worsened with
    the pandemic. In addition, Congress is now considering
    providing $52 billion in funding to bring semiconductor
    manufacturing back to our shores. If fully funded, the Chips
    for America Act would create an estimated 42 thousand
    additional semiconductor-related jobs. Addressing these
    workforce challenges is going to require new investments and
    partnerships.
        One of the major challenges is recruiting a diverse
    workforce. In 2021, the Semiconductor Industry Association
    reported that Black employees held 4% of all jobs in the
    semiconductor workforce, compared to 12% across all employment
    sectors. Hispanic employees make up 13% of the semiconductor
    workforce, compared to 18% across all sectors. And fewer than
    one quarter of employees in the semiconductor workforce are
    women. The semiconductor industry acknowledges these challenges
    and has worked to increase representation through
    apprenticeship models and engagement. I am pleased that we have
    a representative from SEMI here today to discuss these
    programs.
        Creating a capable microelectronics workforce also requires
    hands-on learning. Several of our witnesses today have
    implemented innovative programs to offer access to hands-on
    learning tools for technical and community college students. If
    these programs prove successful, we must scale them up.
    Distance learning tools and virtual reality technologies may
    also offer solutions to increase access.
        I look forward to hearing our witnesses' insights on how we
    can grow and diversify the U.S. semiconductor workforce,
    including through new public-private partnerships. I also look
    forward to continuing the bipartisan work of this committee to
    advance bold policies to address these challenges.

        Chairwoman Stevens. Thank you, Ranking Member Lucas.
    There's a lot of dogging of Congress, and one of the beautiful
    things is that people all across the country and their elected
    representation can come together in hearings like this and talk
    about such important topics: workforce development, workforce
    training, and an industry of scale that we are eager to grab
    hold of. So I hope all of us recognize and take away from this
    hearing what a ringing and resounding moment this is for our
    country.
        So with this, we're going to move to witness testimony. Our
    witnesses are going to have 5 minutes for their spoken
    testimony. The written will be submitted to the record. There's
    some nice, printed words here that we all got in advance.
        But with that, we'll move to Shari Liss for the first 5
    minutes of witness testimony.

                      TESTIMONY OF MS. SHARI LISS,

               EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE SEMI FOUNDATION

        Ms. Liss. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having
    me. Chairwoman Stevens, Ranking Member Lucas, and Ranking
    Member Feenstra, and Members of the Research and Technology
    Subcommittee, thank you for this incredible opportunity to
    submit testimony about the critical workforce needs of the U.S.
    microelectronic manufacturing sector. We hope to be of service
    in helping you examine the challenges our industry is facing in
    the microelectronics workforce development realm.
        I am the Executive Director of the SEMI Foundation, which
    is a 501(c)(3) arm of SEMI, the global industry association
    representing the microelectronics manufacturing and design
    supply chain connecting over 2,500 member companies. For 20
    years the SEMI Foundation has led SEMI's workforce development
    and diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives.
        Microelectronics is an industry making frequent headlines.
    Supply chain disruptions and chip shortages are impacting
    virtually every industry and our daily lives. Yet compared to
    today's software and social media giants, this industry is
    relatively invisible to most citizens and workers, and that's
    made workforce development a challenge for decades. Compounding
    the issue is the ``Great Resignation,'' which has led to
    substantial worker churn within our member companies. The
    steadily declining U.S. share of global semiconductor capacity,
    COVID-related supply chain disruptions, and an aging workforce
    are all important factors. The semiconductor industry's ability
    to advance and thrive faces serious challenges as it contends
    with an acute shortage of core skills and talent.
        Yet another challenge is how to best prepare new workers
    for the industry and the industry for new workers. Training
    programs must simultaneously be industry-led and worker-
    centric, and this process is not simple. Industry must dictate
    the specific skills and competencies needed for high-demand
    open jobs, and prospective workers must have support systems in
    place to complete training and be positioned for success in
    their new workplaces. Further, companies report that many
    workers lack the essential soft skills, teamwork,
    communication, professionalism, time management, conflict
    resolution, et cetera, that's needed to thrive in these
    workplaces.
        Finally, companies looking to hire a more diverse workforce
    need to shift their workplaces to a more equitable and
    inclusive spaces or these new workers will not feel welcome and
    possibly leave those jobs or the industry entirely.
    Accomplishing all of the above requires significant
    investments. Impacted jobs range all across the supply chain
    from entry-level positions in manufacturing to advanced
    technical jobs. Our most current data shows that in the last 12
    months there were 88,000 open jobs just from SEMI member
    companies alone. Our worker shortage is extreme.
        It's also important to consider the relative invisibility
    of the microelectronics industry compared to adjacent
    industries such as software and social media. Microelectronics
    companies do not have the same name recognition or allure as
    companies such as Facebook--or now Meta--Apple, Spotify, or
    Google even though our industry enabled each of these
    technologies.
        The SEMI Foundation has a framework of initiatives that
    help address these workforce challenges that provides a step-
    by-step path for leaders to engage with the industry and invest
    strategically so we can accelerate economic opportunity for
    all. Some of the elements include our Industry Image and
    Awareness Campaign. This national media and education campaign
    has two elements: a PBS documentary series highlighting careers
    in our industry that will reach up to 60 million viewers, and
    an online career portal which launches this summer. We're also
    launching the SEMI Career and Apprenticeship Network, or SCAN,
    designed for the EDA's (Economic Development Administration's)
    good jobs challenge. SCAN is a registered apprenticeship
    program that trains, supports, and places people into quality
    jobs at committed employees--employers. We also do extensive
    work with veterans, high school students, and in the realm of
    diversity, equity, and inclusion.
        While these programs are highly beneficial, there are
    challenges to creating programs that benefit students,
    employees, and employers. A major issue in ensuring programs
    are industry-led, meaning that the programs truly train workers
    in high-demand skills for currently open jobs while also being
    worker-centric so prospective employees have the support
    systems they need to complete training and be positioned for
    success.
        It's also crucial that workplaces are truly welcoming and
    embrace active belonging practices. For companies to have the
    workforce they need and to be innovative, productive, and
    profitable, they need a far more diverse workforce. That means
    women returning to work need to feel welcome. That means that
    people that have taken time off for family caregiving need to
    feel welcomed back, that veterans transitioning to civilian
    jobs, justice-involved individuals charting new paths. This can
    only be accomplished through intentional diversity, equity, and
    inclusion practices.
        There are many areas where policymakers can help transform
    our industry for the better. For example, we can increase
    investments in awareness and visibility of programs to recruit
    new individuals into the industry, encourage organizations and
    coalitions to create programs that connect diversity, equity,
    and inclusion to their workforce efforts, and increase
    investments in STEM education to provide support for full
    talent pipeline investment from elementary school all the way
    through university with a focus on recruiting, supporting, and
    retaining underrepresented groups in STEM education.
        Again, thank you so much for this incredible opportunity. I
    look forward to our discussion.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Liss follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairwoman Stevens. Thank you. And now we'll move to Dr.
    Awadelkarim. And we got to get you off mute.

                  TESTIMONY OF DR. OSAMA AWADELKARIM,

                  UNESCO CHAIR PROFESSOR AND DIRECTOR

                    OF THE CENTER FOR NANOTECHNOLOGY

                    EDUCATION AND UTILIZATION (CNEU)

                    AT PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIVERSITY

        Dr. Awadelkarim. Thank you.
        Chairwoman Stevens. There we go.
        Dr. Awadelkarim. Chairwoman Stevens, Ranking Member
    Feenstra, and honorable Members of the Committee, thank you for
    inviting me to this important hearing. I testify today as a
    Director of the Pennsylvania State University Center for
    Nanotechnology Education and Utilization, known as CNEU. CNEU
    was established in 1998 to address the needs of the
    Pennsylvania semiconductor industry for skilled workers and is
    dedicated to preparing them across the full range of micro- and
    nanofabrication applications. The resources of CNEU, which
    includes an outstanding infrastructure faculty and a cleanroom
    dedicated to hands-on student experiences, are focused on the
    incorporation of nanotechnology into all levels of education.
        CNEU works with industry and over 40 Pennsylvania
    postsecondary institutions to create degree programs
    incorporating nanoscale fabrication and characterization with
    an emphasis on semiconductor process. A strong semiconductor
    industry must have a workforce skilled in fabrication and
    characterization at the nanoscale.
        CNEU pioneered and developed its resource-sharing approach,
    keyword resource-sharing, for such an advanced and complex
    manufacturing, which is forming partnerships with research
    universities, industry, and community colleges to enable
    critical hands-on training, as well as expert faculty resources
    that are not available at community and technical colleges.
    This resource-sharing model established CNEU as a global leader
    in nanotechnology education and workforce development.
        Subsequently, in 2008 the Advanced Technology Education
    Program at the National Science Foundation created the
    Nanotechnology Applications and Career Knowledge Center, or
    NACK, at CNEU. NACK has helped to provide needed national
    micro- and nanotechnology education infrastructure for the
    country by supporting, coordinating, and integrating efforts by
    research universities and community and technical colleges
    across the entire United States. As a result of NACK's efforts,
    the educational workforce development programs in micro- and
    nanotechnology are growing at universities and community
    colleges throughout the United States.
        Industry and research universities have an important role
    to play in assisting workforce development institutions in
    preparing a skilled semiconductor workforce. This includes
    sharing infrastructure, advising on the skills needed,
    providing development opportunities for students and educators,
    funding and donating functional equipment, and assisting in
    student recruitment by highlighting the merits and
    opportunities of joining the microelectronics workforce.
        In 2008, CNEU piloted the Remotely Accessible Instruments
    for Nanotechnology, or RAIN, network, which enables web access
    to state-of-the-art characterization--nano characterization
    tools for hands-on experience for institutions without these
    capabilities. To date, 28 RAIN partners have provided close to
    600 remote access sessions to over 11,000 students. NACK is
    currently working with the NSF Micro Nano Technology Education
    Center to further expand the RAIN network and its utilization.
        For the United States to fill the gap in the semiconductor
    workforce it's important to draw significant numbers of skilled
    workers from underrepresented ethnic groups or populations.
    Therefore, since 2018, CNEU has collaborated with historically
    Black colleges and universities (HBCUs) and Hispanic-serving
    institutions. To date--and from African-American and Hispanic
    ethnic groups 45 students including 22 females are being
    trained at CNEU. In addition, 167 other students from the same
    groups train remotely. Enhancing the representation of females
    and other minority groups, including the military veterans, is
    crucial in diversifying and prompting equity and inclusion in
    the microelectronics workforce.
        In the past 2 years, CNEU offered the Nanomanufacturing
    Certificate Program for veterans recruited from military
    installations in the Tidewater region of Virginia. This work is
    in progress and includes attempts to expand the program to
    other branches of the military.
        During this challenging times, our Nation's semiconductor
    industry workforce development needs to be effective,
    efficient, and outcome-driven. This calls for Federal
    Government intervention and action to boost semiconductor
    manufacturing workforce development. Ways in which government
    can assist may include implementing the CHIPS Act, supporting
    creation on sustenance workforce education, partnerships, and
    identifying ways to incentivize industry to become more
    engaged.
        Thank you, and I look forward to answering your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Awadelkarim follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairwoman Stevens. Great, thank you, Dr. Awadelkarim.
        And we'll get to Dr. Liu now. Thank you.

                   TESTIMONY OF DR. TSU-JAE KING LIU,

            DEAN AND ROY W. CARLSON PROFESSOR OF ENGINEERING

               AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY

        Dr. Liu. Thank you. Chairwoman Stevens, Ranking Member
    Feenstra, and Members of the Research and Technology
    Subcommittee, thank you very much for inviting me to testify on
    the topic of strengthening the microelectronics workforce in
    the United States. I'm Dean of the College of Engineering and a
    Distinguished Professor of Electrical Engineering and Computer
    Sciences at the University of California Berkeley where I've
    been leading research on semiconductor devices and technology
    for over 25 years.
        Today, I'm speaking in my capacity as an educator and as
    Chair of the Executive Committee for the American Semiconductor
    Academy Initiative or ASA Initiative. I'm eager to share with
    you my perspective on how universities and colleges in the
    United States can partner with the government and industry to
    secure America's leadership in semiconductor manufacturing.
        The current chip shortage has exposed critical supply chain
    vulnerabilities due to the steady decline in the U.S. share of
    semiconductor manufacturing capacity, which is only 12 percent
    today. Reshoring semiconductor chip manufacturing is critical
    for our country's long-term economic competitiveness and
    national security, and it requires investment in workforce
    development, as well as in new manufacturing facilities.
        Integrated circuits (ICs) are highly complex systems that
    can comprise up to 50 billion transistors on a single silicon
    chip. Designing and building these advanced chips requires
    teams of highly trained and skilled workers.
        Now, back in 2017, a survey found that 82 percent of
    semiconductor industry executives reported a shortage of
    qualified job candidates. The challenge of finding qualified
    workers has only increased since then, and it is now acute at
    all skill and education levels. It takes years to educate and
    train a technician or an engineer, particularly for jobs in the
    microelectronics industry, which is why action is needed now.
        The ASA Initiative aims to grow the talent pool for the
    microelectronics industry with speed and scale in order to meet
    the urgent workforce needs of a resurging domestic
    microelectronics industry. The ASA Initiative promotes
    collaboration between universities and community colleges to
    empower faculty nationwide by sharing curriculum materials and
    best practices for offering high-quality courses and hands-on
    training to a diversity of students. It also engages SEMI,
    which represent over 2,500 member companies across the
    microelectronics ecosystem, to raise awareness and support
    students to pursue careers in microelectronics by facilitating
    industry--by facilitating professional development and access
    to a wide variety of internships and jobs.
        This university-industry partnership can connect more than
    200 universities and community colleges across the country to
    the more than 1,500 SEMI member companies with U.S. operations.
    To truly maximize the scale of this initiative requires
    leadership and support from the Federal Government. We estimate
    that for each $100 million invested per year, approximately
    2,000 additional new graduates can be produced annually for the
    microelectronics industry.
        The Federal Government has shown leadership in the past for
    ambitious initiatives like the space race and the Human Genome
    Project. The recent passage of the COMPETES Act gives me hope
    that America will soon be better equipped to win the chip race.
    Thank you very much for your consideration, and I look forward
    to answering your questions from the Subcommittee Members.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Liu follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairwoman Stevens. Thank you.
        At this point we're going to begin the first round of
    questions. The Chair is going to recognize herself for 5
    minutes.
        Look, this is an incredibly complex sector of our economy
    and sector of industry, and listening to what all of you have
    to say and in your brilliant testimony, as well as reading your
    written testimony, what we are experiencing with the workforce
    shortage is something that most Members of Congress hear day in
    and day out in their districts, that they just can't find the
    employees. I mentioned that I have a program called
    Manufacturing Monday where I work really closely and go and
    visit small to midsize manufacturers and I hear about their
    workforce shortages. We have also known about a skills gap in
    this country for a long time that's only been exacerbated by a
    pandemic. And now, though, we see other industries, home-
    improvement sector, you know, the library, the juice shop, you
    know, not necessarily being able to get people in to fill all
    the hours that are available.
        But specifically for semiconductors and what it takes to
    work in a fab, I was wondering if our panel could just lend a
    few minutes to what it takes to go into a fab, you know, the
    suiting up, the intricacies, the development and, you know, if
    there's certain personality or if it's that we just haven't
    explained how essential this is. But when you're walking
    through the doors--and many of you are at the university level,
    that's great, and you're doing this, though, at the university
    level or at the foundation level. So maybe we could start with
    you, Dr. Liu. You know, what does it take to go work in a fab?
        Dr. Liu. Well, that's a wonderful question, Chairwoman
    Stevens. You know, I think hands-on experience--learning
    opportunities is critical in this field. We can learn
    theoretically how transistors and chips are made, but unless
    you work in a fab and you understand why we need a cleanroom in
    the first place, like why do we need to suit up, it's because
    these devices are so small, any bit of dust that might fall on
    your wafer, you know, as you're processing can actually reduce
    the manufacturing yield and cost your company hundreds of
    millions of dollars. So I think the hands-on training portion
    is actually uniquely critical to the semiconductor industry.
    And this is where there's a challenge because it does take time
    to learn the physics and the math and engineering, and then to
    work in a cleanroom takes a lot of patience because it does
    take so many steps to even fabricate some functional dies.
        Chairwoman Stevens. Yes. I've put on the suit several times
    myself, and a lot of respect for people who do it day in and
    day out. And, Ms. Liss, maybe you can talk about this as well,
    particularly in terms of the diversity, equity, and inclusion
    efforts that you have been pursuing. You know, how do we break
    down those barriers? How do we get hands-on learning? How can
    the Federal Government help, if at all?
        Ms. Liss. A great question, and thank you for that. To add
    to Dr. Liu's points, you know, I think in addition to the
    hands-on training and the technical skills, we're also looking
    at building up the soft skills in a number of people. And one
    of the pathways that we're building right now is a registered
    apprenticeship model to tackle exactly this challenge for
    technicians and operators. And in doing that, we're hoping to
    diversify the talent pipeline. We're hoping to open more doors
    to more communities and partner closely with community colleges
    on the ground and technical skills to be able to train folks to
    walk into those cleanrooms. We're already seeing a deficit in
    those needs, and with chips, we imagine the numbers are going
    to grow really substantially in the coming years. So trying to
    open this pathway, diversify the incoming opportunities, and
    not require 4-year degrees to move into that space is going to
    be really critical. So we need support to be able to build out
    those programs, again, to diversify the talent pipeline for
    sure is a huge part of this work.
        Chairwoman Stevens. Yes, and Dr. Awadelkarim, you know,
    you're joined by a couple of my colleagues from the State of
    Pennsylvania who I'm sure are going to be very eager to talk to
    you. But, you know, you've mapped out the presence in your
    written testimony within the State, and I was just wondering if
    you could talk about some of the success stories that you've
    seen.
        Dr. Awadelkarim. OK. First of all, I'd like to underline
    one thing that is very important. We're very fortunate that we
    have a dedicated teaching cleanroom. Penn State has been very
    generous in giving us the space, giving us the funds to build a
    teaching cleanroom. This is not the case in many other research
    universities. Cleanrooms are very expensive to build and very
    expensive to maintain. So most universities restrict them to
    research. And they're hardly--you know, students are hardly
    given opportunities, you know, to actually go into cleanrooms
    and practice hands-on experiences.
        Having this cleanroom and having the general support of the
    State of Pennsylvania since 1998 all the way to 2012, we were
    able to bring students and teach them hands-on experience, and
    students from community colleges hands-on experiences on
    these--in this cleanroom.
        Now, the first thing that we do when students come and stay
    at Penn State is we offer them a very specific course on how to
    deal with the cleanroom.
        Chairwoman Stevens. Yes. And why don't we do this, Dr.
    Awadelkarim, because I'm over my 5 minutes. And, as I
    mentioned, we do have some colleagues on who are from your
    State and I'm sure they would like to brag on what you've
    talked about. So why don't I yield back and pass this over to
    my colleague, the Ranking Member, Congressman Feenstra for 5
    minutes. Thank you so much.
        Dr. Awadelkarim. Thank you.
        Mr. Feenstra. Well, I just want to thank each one of our
    expert witnesses. I mean, you've provided incredible testimony
    and insightful thoughts on these issues. And it's just
    impressive to hear each one of you.
        To followup with you, Dr. Awadelkarim, in your testimony
    you state that the goal of the Centers for Nanotechnology
    Applications and Career Knowledge is to replicate the success
    of your programs nationwide by supporting and integrating
    efforts by community and technical colleges across the country
    to provide nanotechnology workforce education. So given this
    experience, do you think the Federal Government is making
    effective and efficient investments in the nanofabrication
    education and training?
        Dr. Awadelkarim. Actually, I was--you know, this is just a
    followup to my answer, you know, to Chairwoman Stevens.
    Pennsylvania is very critical in supporting us and allowing us
    to do this, you know, for Pennsylvania, you know, community
    college. However, the NSF has picked up Pennsylvania experience
    and then supported us since 2012. Overall, we were able to
    graduate over 1,000 students out of this, you know,
    nanomanufacturing initiative that we have. So I can say that
    the Federal Government, through the NSF, has been very
    generously providing support.
        The support actually primarily goes to bringing the
    students over here and, you know, maintaining them while they
    are here. But I think to actually generalize or replicate this
    experience of ours throughout the United States, more funds are
    clearly needed, you know, to do this, and we have built some
    similar partnerships throughout the United States which can
    actually do the same.
        Mr. Feenstra. Right. I agree 100 percent. Thank you.
        Dr. Liu, thank you for your testimony on the American
    Semiconductor Academy. As we look to expand our workforce while
    being good stewards of taxpayer money, what steps would you
    take to ensure the ASA is capitalizing on the Federal
    investments already made like those at NACK? Do you have a plan
    for leveraging those investments while ensuring there's no
    duplication of efforts?
        Dr. Liu. Absolutely. Thank you for that excellent question,
    Ranking Member Feenstra. As Professor Awadelkarim has
    mentioned, there are universities in the United States who have
    been--which have been supported by the Federal Government to
    establish these very expensive and sophisticated facilities,
    cleanroom facilities to train students. And so the ASA really
    is advocating for increasing accessibility of those facilities.
    So, first of all, modernization because the field of
    microelectronics is a rapidly evolving field, right? The
    technology increases in capability exponentially. The--new
    equipment is invented every year. So we'd like to upgrade the
    existing facilities and then open them up so that they have
    greater--so that more students, a greater diversity of students
    can learn in those facilities. But how do you even coordinate
    that? So Federal investment is needed to help us coordinate and
    leverage existing investments.
        Mr. Feenstra. Right. And do you see--the coordination--I
    look at the Federal programs like the NSF, the national labs,
    the Department of Commerce. Do you see problems coordinating
    there or is that pretty seamless?
        Dr. Liu. I think it's pretty seamless because the
    facilities are standalone. They operate--they do get funding
    for multiple sources. I think this is a multiagency, you know,
    opportunity to work together to support, you know, the
    universities to be able to help more students across the
    country, yes. I think that's the best use of our Nation's--our
    taxpayers' dollars.
        Mr. Feenstra. Well, that's great to hear.
        Ms. Liss, can you please speak on how the American
    Semiconductor Academy can play a role in connecting academia
    and industry to ensure students are being trained with the
    skill sets needed by the industry? I think there's so much
    going on right now, and I'm just wondering how we can do this.
        Ms. Liss. Thank you. That's a great question. And we're
    very excited about our partnership with Dr. Liu and the ASA.
    You know, we been talking a lot about the ability to connect
    industry members to the education system more seamlessly and to
    have input on the needs, the really tremendous and critical
    needs that we are not filling within the workforce from an
    education standpoint in terms of which courses, curriculum,
    degrees are needed to be able to fill all of the jobs that are
    coming. And our partnership is really beautiful in a lot of
    ways because a lot of our work at the SEMI Foundation is
    building the pipeline K-12, building apprenticeship models,
    partnering with the community college system, and now also
    helping to serve into the university system as well. So I think
    by connecting industry voices to university system will be able
    to better identify the competencies and skills that are needed
    in order to be successful in this industry.
        Mr. Feenstra. Well, that's great to hear, thank you.
        Ms. Liss. Thank you.
        Mr. Feenstra. And I yield back. Thanks for each of your
    comments.
        Chairwoman Stevens. All right. Thank you. And now we will
    hear from Congresswoman Ross for 5 minutes of questioning.
        Ms. Ross. Great, I got to go early. Thank you so, so much.
    And this is a terrific panel.
        And I just have to share this. I'm from North Carolina,
    from the Research Triangle area, and I--before I came to this
    Committee meeting, I went to Wake Tech Community College. And
    they just got a $1.4 million NSF grant to allow Wake Tech
    students to do hands-on research, have mentors, get paid
    apprenticeships, get communication skills, and be able to work
    in cutting-edge areas.
        And the student who we talked to was talking about
    antimicrobial resistance, which was--is very important for the
    biotech industry at Wake Tech. But when I talked to the
    President of Wake Tech, he said if there was this kind of NSF
    grant for microelectronics, Wake Tech would be applying for it
    in a heartbeat. And we have a new East Wake Tech campus that's
    opening up soon focusing on manufacturing.
        And so I think maybe starting with Ms. Liss, but I'd like
    to hear from all of the panelists whether or not since we're
    going to be giving NSF some more money and we've got this money
    for semiconductors, whether this type of program where we marry
    all of these things and in addition several of our colleges and
    universities would be involved, including land-grant and HBCUs
    if people wanted to go beyond their apprenticeship and get
    higher education. Tell me whether you think we should set up
    these programs, you know, all across the country or whether
    this works? And let's start with Ms. Liss and then maybe Dr.
    Liu and then keep going around.
        Ms. Liss. Yes, that's an excellent question. And yes, yes,
    and yes. So I think what we're trying to do is build these STEM
    ecosystems that can support this industry in each of the
    regions that we're focused on. And our Good Jobs Challenge
    grant app that we just submitted, it was building an ecosystem
    in California and Arizona as two starting points. But we've
    already been approached by multiple States to do similar and
    expanded work. I think bringing together workforce development
    boards, K-12 education, community colleges, universities,
    economic councils, State-level legislators is going to be
    really critical in building things that will help scale and be
    supported and continue to be maintainable. You know, I think--
    and sustainable. I think that's going to be the most critical
    part of this work is bringing together all of these voices to
    make sure that we're adding real value to this industry and
    finding the folks that can make the most difference in the
    world through it. So, yes, absolutely. I love that that grant
    was awarded and we're doing some more work. Thank you.
        Ms. Ross. Dr. Liu and then Dr. Awadelkarim.
        Dr. Liu. Yes, thank you, Congresswoman Ross. That is
    wonderful. Congratulations on Wake Tech's success in securing
    that grant.
        I echo everything that Ms. Liss said, and I just want--just
    would like to add that at Berkeley we have had programs funded
    by the NSF. We call it Transfer-to-Excellence to support
    community college students coming to Berkeley because we have
    the facilities to gain research experience during the
    summertime. But I think the key there is to expose them to
    increase awareness of this field and to understand that there
    are good jobs here and this--they can make a tremendous impact
    on society, a positive impact. And then that incentivizes them
    to go back, take their courses more seriously, and even maybe
    not even aim for technician roles but transfer to university
    and aim for higher--a higher level professional degree. So I
    think a lot of it is increasing awareness and attracting
    students and motivating them to stick with it, right? It does
    take many years and it's not easy. It's a rigorous education
    that they must go through. So programs like that I think indeed
    should be replicated. We should share those best practices
    across the Nation.
        Dr. Awadelkarim. Maybe what I could--I always feel very
    happy, you know, when I hear that more money is going to the
    advanced technological education program, the NSF, and that
    seems to be what's going to happen here. So that is very
    encouraging itself.
        I think the ATE (Advanced Technological Education) program
    has done a lot in actually, you know, propagating, you know,
    nanofabrication and semiconductor manufacturing across the
    community colleges. And now the NSF has Micro Nano Technology
    Education Centers, which is a national center, and we at NACK
    are working very closely with this center that is trying to do
    the same thing, in other words, disseminate semiconductor
    education throughout.
        I think the suggestion that I will make is trying to get
    into this program or to this pool of money, universities and
    industries, together with community colleges, in kind of
    partnerships because they need each other and they need the
    infrastructure that is provided by industry and universities so
    that this, you know, approach that we prove very successful,
    you know, resource-sharing could actually flourish. So if that
    kind of funding stream is created, that would be great.
        Ms. Ross. Thank you very much. Madam Chair, I yield back.
        Chairwoman Stevens. Great. And with that, we are going to
    hear from Congressman Gonzalez.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Chairwoman Stevens and Ranking
    Member Feenstra, for holding this hearing today. Additionally,
    thank you to our witnesses for sharing their expertise on these
    important topics.
        As we've heard from all of our witnesses, it cannot be
    underscored enough how important chips are in day-to-day
    American life. We see that in every sector of the economy, and
    it's disheartening to hear that over the course of the past
    three decades, manufacturing of these chips has been offshored
    and, even more troublesome, to adversaries like China.
        On the positive side, of course, I was thrilled to learn
    that Intel Corporation has chosen my home State of Ohio as the
    future home of semiconductor manufacturing facilities. The
    project will generate more than 20,000 jobs projected--I think
    it will be higher when we look at downstream jobs--in Ohio and
    reaffirm our stances as a hub for manufacturing and innovation.
    I can almost think of no greater economic development tool than
    bringing our chips--chip manufacturing back home to the United
    States, but of course they should all come to Ohio.
        Dr. Awadelkarim, in your testimony you highlighted the
    important collaboration between Penn State, Pennsylvania
    community colleges, and other 2-year degree-granting
    institutions. How would a State like Ohio or any other State
    benefit from these sorts of collaborations going forward?
        Dr. Awadelkarim. OK. The reason that our initiative was
    only, you know, Pennsylvania-based is because of the funding of
    the State of Pennsylvania, which restrict us to only work with
    community colleges in Pennsylvania. However, through the NSF,
    we're also working with community colleges. I could have
    certainly, you know, right, you know, give an answer, you know,
    to the kind of community--a written answer to community
    colleges that we work with in Ohio, but NACK works across the
    entire United States. And so we're able to work with Ohio.
        But the biggest issue is for the student to come to Penn
    State, that involves high cost for them, and then they need to
    be able to find the funds so as to do that. So we prefer that
    the work with neighboring university, research university that
    can provide that experience to them.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes. And what is it about the partnership
    that works well? And I'm asking from the standpoint of trying
    to figure out, you know, what should all of our States be
    thinking about in order to duplicate the success that you've
    had in Pennsylvania? What are those key things that we should
    be doing more of?
        Dr. Awadelkarim. What I would say, the No. 1 thing is
    funding of course, you know, for students, you know, to be able
    to attend. That's one thing. The other thing is to propagate
    the experience and replicate it. In other words, get some
    interest in research university and industry that they're able
    to do this. And now you're saying that Intel is moving to Ohio,
    that's a big blessing because then Intel can play a crucial
    role, you know, in actually building that partnership simply
    because of the need, you know, for the skilled workforce.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes. With that, I'm going to switch to Ms.
    Liss. Piggybacking off that, we know that there's not currently
    enough people still to fill these jobs even though they're
    great jobs. Has the SEMI Foundation begun to look at programs
    that could increase the pipeline? And how should we think about
    spreading awareness in particular for our students?
        Ms. Liss. Yes, all of our programs are about increasing the
    talent pipeline and looking at this desperate situation in
    terms of workforce need. And we actually are about to launch
    this very significant image and awareness campaign around the
    industry. The website tool that we're about to launch in June
    will be a skills analysis and skills gap analysis tool for
    students, for veterans, for women returning to work. It will
    tell the stories of the industry. It will show the breadth and
    depth of the opportunities. It will link to all the
    universities and community colleges that are offering content
    and curriculum and degrees in this space. And it is to raise
    awareness about the industry.
        And I don't know if you've talked to high school students
    or even community college students or university students
    recently, but if you ask them if they know anything about the
    semiconductor industry, they will know everything on their
    phone but not how it works, and so we need to change that
    dynamic. And from an image perspective, the image is only the
    white coat and the cleanrooms. Although that's part of it,
    there's so much other opportunity within the industry. So being
    able to tell the story in a way that's exciting and sexy for
    kids is going to be really critical in building workforce.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes, thank you for sharing that. I couldn't
    agree more. And the one thing I like that we're highlighting in
    this panel is--or in this hearing is that the skills need to
    exist across a whole host of demographics and educational
    backgrounds, right? It's not just Ph.D.'s, 4-year college.
    Let's get community colleges, let's get the skilled trades
    involved and make sure that we have everything we need to
    really restart chip manufacturing here in the United States.
    Thank you----
        Ms. Liss. If I----
        Mr. Gonzalez. Yes.
        Ms. Liss. I'm sorry, I was just going to say. If it's OK,
    I'm already talking to folks in Ohio.
        Mr. Gonzalez. Wonderful. Well, I love to hear that.
        Ms. Liss. There's a lot of interest.
        Mr. Gonzalez. There absolutely is. And with that, I will
    yield back to Madam Chair. Thank you.
        Chairwoman Stevens. Excellent. And with that, we're going
    to hear from my friend and colleague Congressman Tonko. Your
    friend and colleague, too, Congressman Gonzalez, so----
        Mr. Tonko. OK, Chair Stevens, can you hear me? Thank you.
        Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ranking Member Feenstra
    and the witnesses, for being here today.
        At the heart of the education and workforce engine driving
    the U.S. microelectronics industry are our colleges and
    universities. If we as a nation intend to reassert ourselves as
    a global leader in chip fracturing, we definitely need a well-
    funded and sustained national strategy, a strategy that engages
    our community colleges, our 4-year colleges, and research
    universities with industry on a large enough scale to make a
    real impact.
        New York's capital region is home to prime examples of
    higher ed institutions with access to cutting-edge fabrication
    facilities for firsthand learning opportunities. The Albany
    NanoTech Complex, for example, is the most advanced publicly
    owned semiconductor R&D facility in our United States and
    supports workforce development at all levels. Tech Valley High
    School is located at that site. It has ongoing programs with
    community colleges for technician training, and it coordinates
    with all 64 of our city campuses to increase opportunities in a
    variety of career paths from engineering to process operators
    and maintenance technicians.
        GlobalFoundries also in my district established the first
    United States Department of Labor-registered apprenticeship
    program in the semiconductor industry at its Malta, New York,
    headquarters. It's an 18-month maintenance technician
    apprenticeship program with on-the-job training, instructor-led
    classes, web-based courses and college courses in partnership
    with Hudson Valley Community College and other nearby schools.
    Learning opportunities like these great capital region examples
    enable direct transitioning to the semiconductor manufacturing
    workforce and should be encouraged and replicated throughout
    the country.
        As you may be aware, the House passed the Microelectronics
    Research for Energy Innovation Act as part of the broader
    America COMPETES Act of 2022. I led this bill in partnership
    with my colleague Mr. Ellzey, and it would authorize an effort
    to leverage the Department of Energy's (DOE's) capabilities,
    including the DOE national labs and their partners in industry
    and academia, to tackle foundational challenges in the
    scientific areas relevant to microelectronics. Among the
    provisions included in the MICRO Act are directives to support
    workforce development efforts related to microelectronics
    through scholarships, fellowships, education, and public
    outreach activities, hands-on research and equipment training
    programs, and indeed certificate programs.
        So, Dr. Liu, can you comment on how the national labs might
    serve as unique venues for the type of activity authorized in
    the MICRO Act?
        Dr. Liu. Well, thank you so much, Congressman Tonko. And
    it's very inspiring, the example of the New York State, you
    know, Albany partnership between government and industry and
    universities and colleges. It's really a model, I think, that
    we do indeed need replicated in other parts of the country,
    including Ohio, Texas, Arizona, and so on.
        So the Department of Energy of course has invested in
    microelectronics because they need the world's best computers,
    right, for their work. And so the national labs also serve as a
    resource for our country to train future engineers and
    technicians perhaps for some more--aiming for defense industry,
    you know, careers, so they definitely play a complementary role
    to universities and offer hands-on, practical skills training
    that actually can also help to incentivize students to stick
    with it and pursue these careers because a lot of the students,
    once they take a course in computer science and have an
    internship there, they're hooked. We need to give them
    internships early. And so this is why we need to work together,
    network. How do we replicate the model in Albany? Well, we need
    a network to share that through, and so this is what we'd like
    to do as soon as possible. Thank you so much for your support.
        Mr. Tonko. Oh, thank you. And would either of our other two
    witnesses want to comment?
        Ms. Liss. Sure. The hub in New York is one of the most
    talked about and hopefully replicated models around. Meeting
    with the Hudson Valley Community College, SUNY (State
    University of New York) Poly, trying to figure how we can build
    upon the successes that are happening there and with
    GlobalFoundries as well in terms of the apprenticeship model
    that they've launched so successfully. So it is about taking
    best practices and hoping to replicate that work and seeing
    that really come to fruition across the country.
        I just want to give my other panelists a moment as well,
    but thank you.
        Mr. Tonko. Thank you so much.
        Dr. Awadelkarim. And I also commend--you know, we have a
    lot of work ongoing with Albany, SUNY Albany, and SUNY Albany
    has a NEATEC Center, which is Northeast Advanced Technological
    Center, again, funded by the NSF. We've been working together
    for several years now, more than 10 years, and we're still, you
    know, engaged with them. And I think the investment that the
    State of New York has put, you know, on boosting the
    semiconductor workforce and training, I think it was--it's
    commended, you know, and we certainly work with them in many
    areas.
        Mr. Tonko. Thank you so much. And, Madam Chair, I'll just
    tell you that it's an honor to have worked with this as the New
    York State Assembly Chair on Energy when I was there in that
    body and as the leader at NYSERDA, the State Energy Research
    and Development Authority, and now in Congress. So it's been a
    great bit of collaboration and I'm very proud of it and I hope
    we can continue to expand upon it and spread it across the
    country. And thank you for your leadership with the
    Subcommittee. I yield back.
        Chairwoman Stevens. All right. And now we will hear from
    Dr. Baird for 5 minutes of questioning.
        Mr. Baird. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I know you have a
    background in the auto industry, so this--that makes this
    hearing even more significant to you.
        And I want to congratulate my colleague, Representative
    Feenstra. And you know, he mentioned agriculture and he
    mentioned equipment. It's amazing to me that we have such
    sophisticated equipment today to be able to do precision
    agriculture, and it's going to be so important down the road to
    be able to provide food and fiber for the world that we do. And
    so if you have not ever been to a farm progress show, I think
    Randy would tell you that that's a good place to see all kinds
    of technology in place and in action, and it requires all these
    semiconductors to do it.
        But, you know, this hearing--and I think it's really
    important. We have focused on making sure that we try to
    energize and attract young people into the industry. And I can
    tell you this. One of the avenues that I see in my district has
    been the community colleges. And many of you mentioned the
    community colleges. But they are right next to in those
    communities to industries, and they've been working across the
    board with one another to provide the training that is needed
    for that industry from that community college. And then in that
    same vein I think it takes leadership at the universities as
    well.
        And so my question to all of you is do you think that we
    have sufficient staffing at, say, Purdue or Berkeley or Penn
    State? I think I got them all in there from here anyway. But do
    you think we've got enough faculty currently on staff to try to
    help this grow that has the base, you know, like Purdue's got a
    lot of engineering and a lot of this could move across. And so
    we might have a sufficient number of faculty to at least expand
    on this. So my question goes to all the witnesses. And so, Dr.
    Liu, I guess we'll start with you.
        Dr. Liu. All right. Thank you so much, Congressman Baird.
    That's an excellent question. It's something we haven't talked
    about yet. It is true, there will be a need for more faculty
    who are empowered to teach, you know, cutting-edge
    microelectronics curriculum. And many of the faculty members
    who teach in this area today will be retiring in the near
    future, and so I think there is a need.
        As a part of that $100 million a year investment that I
    mentioned earlier does appropriate funding for universities to
    incentivize universities to prioritize hiring a faculty in our
    field because today a lot of universities are looking to hire
    faculty like in computing or so on because there's such a huge
    demand for that--for those workers as well. So I think some
    incentives for universities to prioritize hiring of faculty in
    microelectronics and to help them startup research programs, so
    a little bit of, you know, investment is definitely needed
    there. And we can do the same at community colleges as well. So
    I agree that we--that that is a need.
        Mr. Baird. Thank you. Good to hear. Dr. Liss?
        Ms. Liss. I agree with everything that Dr. Liu just said.
    As we're watching the technology shift and change, too, there's
    going to be new trainings that are going to be needed for the
    university professors, as well as community college professors.
    It is a concern in the community college space that I'm working
    with closely on this apprenticeship model and on training are
    entry-level engineers. There's a lot of concern about keeping
    up with AI machine learning, data science, and making sure that
    we have all of the right professors in place to do all of that,
    so absolutely the need is going to continue to grow as well on
    that front.
        Mr. Baird. Super. Thank you. Dr. Awadelkarim?
        Dr. Awadelkarim. That's an excellent question. Thank you
    for that question. Yes, there is a need of course for staffing
    to be able to do this. And at CNEU, you know, we hire our own
    staff and we have the funding, so we pay the salaries, et
    cetera. So none of Penn State faculty are involved in actually
    teaching these courses. We have our own staff. So that's one
    important thing.
        But I'm very excited about ASA and what is being said here
    because it's bringing together industry, universities, and
    community colleges, and that could be an issue that could be
    addressed there, and ASA could play a big role, you know, in
    facilitating that kind of need or demand. And I think it's
    doable if, you know, the proper funding is in place, you know,
    to do that, and if industry plays an effective role in
    surmounting that hurdle.
        Mr. Baird. Well, thank you for that. And I--you know, I'm a
    strong advocate for the United States of America taking a lead
    role around the world, and I think we have the talent and the
    capability. And so having the kind of input we have from you
    here today helps us make the appropriate decisions on this
    Committee where we can direct dollars to maybe help entice
    getting that back to our country.
        So I've got 8 minutes left, Madam Chair, and I'm going to
    give you 4 of those. Thank you very much.
        Chairwoman Stevens. Great, thank you. And thank you, Dr.
    Baird. And with that, we'll hear from Congresswoman Wild.
        Ms. Wild. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. To everybody
    involved in this panel, I represent Pennsylvania's 7th District
    covering the greater Lehigh Valley where we have a proud
    tradition of American manufacturing leadership. And when I meet
    with local manufacturers no matter what industry we're talking
    about, they always say that a reliable supply of modern chips
    is one of their top business needs.
        I also have a significant semiconductor industry presence
    in my district. I recently visited the Allentown location of
    Infinera, a company that designs and assembles advanced
    microelectronics. And my district is a major site for
    Advantest, an automatic test equipment provider for the
    semiconductor industry to validate chip functions.
        So I have been really proud to support the CHIPS Act and to
    support fully funding it by passing the America COMPETES Act.
        I do believe that Congress must act quickly. This should be
    a top priority to jumpstart our return to American leadership
    in semiconductor manufacturing, a capability that is vital to
    our Nation's overall manufacturing ability and to our national
    security.
        And welcome in particular I have to do a shout out to Dr.
    Awadelkarim. I know I botched your name. I'm so sorry, I tried.
    Welcome to a fellow Pennsylvanian here, and thank you so much
    for your work with Penn State.
        In--now, this is--in your written testimony, each of you
    has touched on the importance of on-the-job and apprenticeship
    training programs, especially for technician training.
    Advantest, which has a site in my district, has closely
    followed the work of SEMI and hopes to develop technical
    apprenticeship programs possibly as a complement to community
    college learning to address its workforce needs.
        Ms. Liss, your written testimony describes SEMI's workforce
    development initiatives, including apprenticeship models. Based
    on your experience leading that work, what barriers exist to
    engaging employers in an apprenticeship model?
        Ms. Liss. That is a great question. Thank you so much. I'm
    actually working quite closely with Advantest----
        Ms. Wild. Oh, good.
        Ms. Liss [continuing]. On that project as well.
        Ms. Wild. Good.
        Ms. Liss [continuing]. Which is wonderful. The barriers for
    industry engagement is the question, so----
        Ms. Wild. Yes, what barriers exist to engaging employers in
    this--in the apprenticeship model?
        Ms. Liss. Yes, I think it is essentially a heart and mind
    shift across the industry. So as the semiconductor industry in
    working with hundreds of companies all the time, you know, the
    past has always been hiring folks with 4-year degrees, with
    Ph.D.'s, with master's degrees. Everybody has to be very
    educated to be successful in this space. At the same time, the
    industry is saying that we have a real workforce development
    challenge and we'd like to diversify that workforce. So in
    order to kind of bridge those two sort of compelling challenges
    within the industry, we have to start looking at these
    alternative pathways to hire.
        So I think from an industry engagement point of view, it's
    getting people to understand and recognize that these jobs can
    be filled through an apprenticeship model, through alternative
    pathways, through technical training and not necessarily
    require everybody to hold at least a 4-year degree to be
    successful. And for me that's the great--that's been the
    greatest learning and from the challenging perspective of
    working with the industry on that particular model. Everybody
    agrees it's needed. It's just getting----
        Ms. Wild. Right.
        Ms. Liss [continuing]. The buy-in.
        Ms. Wild. So are there academic or government services that
    are needed to complement the on-the-job training piece of this?
        Ms. Liss. Absolutely. You know, so from an academic
    standpoint we had to do classroom hours for everybody that goes
    through an apprenticeship model. We decided to go the
    registered apprenticeship route because it also supplies
    wraparound services for workers. It supplies paid community
    college in several States, so it's very worker-centric-focused,
    which is a fabulous addition if we want to look at retaining
    talent, right? And so from an academic standpoint we have to
    actively engage the community colleges in this, in addition to
    the hands-on training component that happens within either the
    university centers or the industry placements themselves.
        Ms. Wild. Well, I'm very much on the same page with you.
    I--my district has two fantastic community colleges. We have 14
    in all of Pennsylvania. Two of them are in my district. And
    they have a wonderful reputation for working with the employers
    in our region.
        And I would just--let see, do I--I have 30 seconds here.
    I'd just be interested from Dr. Awadelkarim--so sorry, I know
    I'm really botching that. If you could just address the
    challenges that institutions--educational institutions face in
    forming partnerships with these employers.
        Dr. Awadelkarim. One of the difficulties actually is
    actually the availability of internships and apprenticeships,
    you know, for the students, you know? They are out there and we
    know students could apply for them, but, you know, the number
    of students that actually would like to do this, you know, or
    to take this opportunity are more. You know, they outnumber,
    you know, the number of available positions. So if industry
    could provide some kind of incentive, you know, to come to
    industry that could provide more of these positions, that of
    course would be very, very, very welcome, you know, because we
    try to place those students in internships and apprenticeships,
    you know, in industry, and that is often very difficult to do.
        One important thing--one important part that I should also
    mention, what about the educators and community colleges
    themselves? They need fellowships to be able to actually work
    with industry because they go back, take this experience, and
    teach back at their community colleges. And that is one big
    part of a professional development program that we do for
    educators of community colleges. I haven't discussed that in
    the--my oral statement, but I've written quite a bit on that on
    the written statement, too.
        Ms. Wild. Well, thank you so much. My time is definitely
    up. This--I could talk about this all day. Thank you, Madam
    Chair. I yield back.
        Chairwoman Stevens. Great questions. And with that we'll
    hear from Congressman Ellzey.
        Mr. Ellzey. Hey, Madam Chair, thank you for recognizing me.
    I didn't have any questions today. Thank you to all the
    witnesses for coming today. It's been an interesting
    conversation and much needed, so thank you. I yield back.
        Mr. Baird. Madam Chair, I think they're waiting on you.
        Chairwoman Stevens. I appear to have a sound issue. Can--is
    Congressman Ellzey asking 5 minutes of questions right now or
    did he yield?
        Mr. Ellzey. I yield back.
        Chairwoman Stevens. OK. He said no questions. Thank you,
    yes, sorry, my sound went out. So with that, we will hear from
    Mr.--Dr. Bill Foster from Illinois for 5 minutes of questions.
    Thank you, Mr. Ellzey. Sorry about that. The sound cut right
    out, but now we can----
        Mr. Foster. Thank you, Madam Chair----
        Chairwoman Stevens [continuing]. Hear from Dr. Foster.
        Mr. Foster. Yes, am I audible and visible here? OK. Well,
    one of the advantages of Zooming from someone's, you know, like
    private study/den is that I accumulate some of my stuff here.
    So here is my stuff from my previous careers. This is a circuit
    board that I probably spent a week of my life wiring that has
    about 250 integrated circuits on about 4,000 wires that I
    connected and debugged the thing. It was a 40-megahertz, 35-
    stage digital pipeline processor that was used to discover the
    top quark, the heaviest known form of matter.
        But during my--and so I was very involved in actually using
    electronic circuits. But when I look at that circuit today, I
    can see the drift of the chip manufacturing business going
    offshore. You know, this was built in about 1985, and most of
    the chips there are Texas Instruments, Motorola, Signetics.
    Actually, you know, Dr. Liu has some name recognition for those
    old, great brands. And Cypress Semiconductor, which I believe
    is still actually not fabless at this point if I'm correct
    about it. Now--and but that's not true. A lot of those
    companies have, you know, disappeared, been acquired, or are
    fabless and do their manufacturing offshore.
        And so one--but 10 years before that back in 1975 when I
    was starting my company with my little brother, we had the
    bright idea of using the newly invented microprocessor to
    control theater stage lighting, which had not been done before,
    and so we actually bought the second microprocessor ever built
    from this startup called Intel. And the main memory was the
    Intel 2102 dynamic RAM (random-access memory). Our company's
    phone number today is 4116, the last four digits for the Mostek
    MK4116 16,000 bit dynamic RAM, which seemed infinite at the
    time.
        And, you know, I just watched with sort of--with a very
    heavy heart watching the dynamic RAM business go offshore,
    first to Japan, then Korea, now a big part of it to Taiwan and
    China, and so trying to understand what we should have done.
    And it's not just integrated circuits. It is passives. You
    know, when I--when we were starting our company, if you wanted
    precision crystal oscillators you went to Connor-Winfield in
    the Illinois 11th District, and now there are many offshore
    vendors they compete with. If you wanted inductors, precision
    inductors, you went to Coilcraft, and now they are--who do I
    think a big part of their manufacturing offshore. And so, you
    know--so we have to keep our eyes on passives and packaging as
    surely as we do on just chips themselves.
        But also, you know, during my time at Fermilab, after a
    while, it became clear that in order to do the experiments we
    needed to do, we had to design and build our own ICs. And so I
    don't want to over claim, but I think I'm the only Member of
    Congress that's designed 10 integrated circuits and had them
    all work the first time. And so--and we also did a lot of
    supervising of engineers who, you know, made the final versions
    of these designs.
        And so, yes, Dr. Liu, you also supervised these engineers,
    and one of the thing that I was struck by is it was--the thing
    that got them going is this is my chip. And, you know, we
    would--we at that time had access to something called MOSIS,
    which I take it has kind of disappeared, which is a way that
    they--you know, you used to be able to get for not very much
    money a small number of a new chip design, you know. And the
    fact that that, too, has disappeared I think really takes the
    wind out of getting young engineers excited about this.
        So I was wondering, you know, what are the things that have
    been tried to keep multi-project wafers going that would let,
    you know, graduate students or even undergrads have access and
    actually build their own chip and get that thrill of seeing the
    chip they designed work?
        Dr. Liu. Well, that's a wonderful question, Congressman
    Foster and Dr. Foster. I actually appreciate that engineers can
    also contribute to the leadership of our country, so it's a
    pleasure to engage with you in conversation.
        So, you know, your question was about the multichip--or
    multi-project wafer programs. So it turns out that Intel is in
    the process of--actually offers a multi-project wafer kind of
    service. They call it the University Shuttle. And--but part of
    the challenge is that even though they offer space on chips so
    students can design and see their chips fabricated and they
    eventually test them, the sophistication of the chips has grown
    exponentially since you were a student even though it's not
    that long ago. And so the software tools have evolved to allow
    people to design billion-component or, you know, thousand-
    component products essentially within a few weeks of a
    semester. The software tools are actually--are needed to be
    able to design these chips today. And that's where
    accessibility is a challenge because, you know, if the
    computing systems you need, the cloud computing credits you
    need to even design a chip because it's so complex, it poses a
    barrier.
        So this is one of the challenges that we would like to
    address with the ASA network. At Berkeley we actually have
    designed a course where students within one semester can tape
    out a chip--I mean, design a chip and send it to Intel to have
    it fabricated in the 16-nanometer generation technology, which
    is pretty advanced. We would like to be able to package that
    course and allow other faculty at other universities to be able
    to teach that course.
        However, software companies, electronic design automation
    companies have to work with us to make their software tools
    broadly accessible, and that's why the ASA should also
    improve--involve an online platform that's shared across the
    Nation to give students accessibility to those design tools in
    order to be able to actually have their chips fabricated by
    companies like Intel.
        Mr. Foster. OK. And I guess I understand we're having a
    second round of questions, and I'll request further on this
    because we ought to find a way that we can make the--a better
    economic model for getting kids, young kids access to be able
    to build their own chip.
        Dr. Liu. Yes. Thank you.
        Chairwoman Stevens. Great. That sounds excellent. Thank
    you, Dr. Foster.
        And then with that, we'll move to the second round of
    questions. It appears as though my sound is maintaining itself.
    I don't know why the internet went out for just a minute there,
    but for the next round of questions I'll begin.
        And my question for the panel is, you know, in thinking
    about how we're going to conduct some of the workforce
    development programs, could you discuss--development
    organizations could contribute to some of the efforts of
    assisting with the workforce development needs of the chips
    sector?
        Ms. Liss. I'm sorry, you cut out for a minute and I could
    not----
        Dr. Awadelkarim. Yes.
        Ms. Liss [continuing]. Hear part of that question.
        Dr. Awadelkarim. We couldn't hear it.
        Staff. Ms. Stevens, if you can hear, you cut out for a
    moment, and it looks like your connection froze.
        Mr. Feenstra. I tell you what, this is Congressman Randy
    Feenstra. While she's getting back up, I can ask--Congresswoman
    Stevens, would you like to--you were cutting in and out. Sorry
    about that.
        Chairwoman Stevens. I know. I thought I was cutting in and
    out. I saw you nodding, and then I heard our technical team say
    you cut out. So let me just recap the question.
        You know, the Department of Commerce put out an RFI
    (request for information) in January asking about the workforce
    development needs of the industry. I'm very interested to hear
    how the Department of Commerce--and in full disclosure I'm a
    former Department of Commerce appointee over a decade ago, so,
    you know, not necessarily trying to put anybody on the spot of
    understanding all the ins and outs of the agency, but how
    should the Department structure the workforce development
    requirements under the chips program to ensure that they are a
    true priority and not just a check-the-box exercise? And with
    that, how could Federal agencies other than Department of
    Commerce that are a part of our chips legislation, including
    Department of Energy and National Science Foundation,
    contribute to these efforts? And that's an open question to all
    the panelists. And Dr. Liu is nodding, so maybe we start with
    you, but not to put you on the spot.
        Dr. Liu. Well, thank you, Chairwoman Stevens, for asking
    that question. I think many of the programs in the CHIPS Act do
    mention workforce development, so that speaks to the need that
    transcends all special programs, and it's an urgent need for
    the industry itself that exists today, so not only the programs
    incentivize growth. So I do think that to make the best use of
    taxpayer dollars we really should coordinate and learn and
    share best practices, you know, from different programs that
    have been stood up, especially from the NSF. So I think it's a
    whole-of-government kind of an opportunity, a multiagency
    solution. Yes, that's the gist of it.
        Ms. Liss. You sort of took the words right out of my mouth,
    Dr. Liu. But I do--I think this issue is so big and so pressing
    and so critical that we have to all come together to support
    the efforts. And although, you know, we have mapped sort of
    this holistic look at workforce development, we are just one
    piece of this very giant puzzle, so we're looking at, you know,
    the government agencies coming together and supporting this
    really significant need that's going to develop in the coming
    years when we already see a need, and we just know it's going
    to accelerate and just continue to grow at least over the next
    several years. So we're hoping that everybody will work
    together, as Dr. Liu mentioned, to find solutions to this
    workforce development challenge, and that was in my response on
    the RFI as well.
        Dr. Awadelkarim. What I could add, you know, to my
    colleagues, you know, the comments of my colleague is we have,
    you know, the model of the ATE, the Advanced Technological
    Education, at the NSF and how it, you know, it was very
    successful, you know, in propagating advanced technology across
    local community colleges, so why not learn from that and
    replicate it in Department of Energy and Department of Commerce
    solicitation with emphasis or focus on semiconductor workforce?
    So I think that's an experience that we can learn from and we
    could, you know, apply.
        Mr. Feenstra. You're on mute, Congresswoman.
        Chairwoman Stevens. I'm on my phone. I'm on mute. Thank
    you, Dr. Awadelkarim. You know, I appreciate your getting in
    there as well. And thank you to the brand-new Ranking Member
    for stepping in, you know, when the Chair has, you know, a
    little technical glitch. Congressman Feenstra, I'm happy to
    kick it over to you for 5 more minutes of questions, and thank
    you for indulging us today.
        Mr. Feenstra. Congresswoman, thank you, Chair. Thank you so
    much.
        Ms. Liss, can you please elaborate on the SEMI VetWorks?
    You know, you think many great men and women come out of our
    military service highly skilled but not always with the right
    credentialing to be recruited by this industry. Could you
    please elaborate and speak on the SEMI VetWork tackle--how they
    tackle this challenge and the importance of utilizing this
    vital talent pool?
        Ms. Liss. Yes, absolutely. Thank you for that question. You
    know, we see military veterans and reservists as a strong and
    really diverse talent pool that can contribute incredibly to
    this field. And one of the challenges we face with getting
    them--that population to get involved is the same thing that I
    spoke about with students earlier. It's just a lack of
    understanding of the industry. When I had the opportunity to
    speak with some servicemembers at Fort Hood a few times talking
    about the industry and explaining what we do and who we are as
    an industry was--it was similar to talking to students in some
    ways and also convincing folks that they had the incredible
    strengths that they bring to the table that could be very
    successful in our industry.
        We have job fairs. We have resume-sharing. We created a vet
    guide to help our members engage with different bases around
    the country. We were asked by our member companies to develop
    tools to help them connect more readily with veterans. So we're
    really trying to elevate the folks from that part of the sector
    to enter our workforce because we just see the incredible value
    they bring.
        Mr. Feenstra. Well, that's great. I greatly appreciate
    that. I mean, it's just another talent pool that we need to
    use.
        Dr. Liu, I noticed that Iowa State, University of Iowa, and
    the University of Northern Iowa, which are obviously in my
    State, are not currently on the list of American Semiconductor
    Academy university partners. I strongly believe that the
    success to programs like these across the country is vitally
    necessary if we're going to meet the vast industry demand and
    maintain pace with China. What sort of outreach are you
    currently doing or do you plan to do in rural communities to
    ensure that STEM opportunities are available across the
    country, specifically like this in the Midwest?
        Dr. Liu. Congressman, excellent question, Ranking Member
    Feenstra. Absolutely. So in Iowa there are universities and
    community colleges especially that can be a wonderful pipeline
    of talent to the industry. And just to be--to clarify, the list
    of universities that are participating in the ASA Initiative
    are helping to plan it. It is always--it always has been
    intended to be, you know, open and accessible to all
    universities and community colleges in the United States
    because the need is too great. None of us should be trying to
    seek only our--you know, to benefit only ourselves. So I think
    that we would be open to--we would want to reach out to as many
    faculty across the community college systems in every State, as
    well as universities across the country. That is the intention.
        And I'd like to mention here that, you know, community
    colleges are a rich source of talent. I mean, it's a diversity
    of students in community colleges, including veterans. I've had
    a veteran--Navy veteran work in my research group because he
    was at a community college and we had this summer, you know,
    research experience. And after that he continued in my group as
    a visiting scholar doing the academic work, you know, because
    he learned about, you know, semiconductor research and was
    hooked.
        I also wanted to mention that, you know, community college
    and partnership with industry and universities are important
    because there's this knowledge network so--framework, so people
    today, we're training them on how to make sense out of data,
    that we're giving them knowledge of what we need to stay at the
    forefront of technology innovation is wisdom. And so this is
    where university education complements the training and the
    kinds of activities happening at community colleges and in the
    industry. We want to cultivate in students a growth mindset,
    and that way they not only can contribute to the industry but
    also help to continue to lead innovation, right? This is where
    we lead, I think, in the world, and we will lead if we can
    harness all the diversity of talent in the United States.
        Mr. Feenstra. Now, I agree with that, Dr. Liu. How do you--
    I mean, this is sort of my area that I'm--I'd like to dive
    into. You talk about quantum computing and AI, and as this
    continues to grow, you know, do you see--I mean, I'm just
    looking at a 30,000-foot view. Do you see that we're getting
    further behind in that truly, you know, expert world
    comparing--compared to other countries globally? I mean, I get
    a little concerned. Or don't you see that necessarily?
        Dr. Liu. I think our country right now is still doing
    leading research in AI and in quantum computing, but it's
    difficult because, unfortunately, for research a lot of our
    students are from other countries, right, in the graduate
    programs. So this is why it's important to raise the visibility
    and awareness that these are really important, you know,
    impactful careers, and we want to attract more domestic
    students to our programs.
        Mr. Feenstra. Thank you so much, and I yield back. Thank
    you.
        Dr. Liu. Thank you.
        Chairwoman Stevens. Great. And with that, is Congresswoman
    Ross still with us? Great. Go ahead, Congresswoman Ross, 5
    minutes of questioning.
        Ms. Ross. Thank you very much. This has just been
    wonderful. And I'm thrilled about our discussion about
    attracting more people to this vital industry.
        One other thing, and I just really--I've been on my soapbox
    about this, but I'd love to hear from all of you about it. We
    have a number of young people who we have educated in this
    country, and they are the DREAMers, both undocumented and
    documented, so children of visa-holders who are now having to
    self-deport at age 21, and they want to stay in this country.
    They've been educated here. They're highly motivated. And I'd
    like to know what your views are on and having us just make
    them eligible to stay here and harness their talent and their
    industry and their desire to be in the United States with that
    talent as opposed to somewhere else in the world? For any and
    all of you.
        Ms. Liss. I can jump in here to start. I can't really speak
    to policy exactly from my seat, but I can say that, you know,
    high-skilled immigrants and students educated in the United
    States are really critical to the workforce and to the global
    industry in general and will positively complement the American
    workforce. So policies that preclude U.S. technology companies
    from employing uniquely skilled immigrants and the elimination
    of opportunities for foreign-born or U.S.-educated STEM
    students is pretty counterproductive to the continued
    leadership of the U.S. microelectronics supply chain.
        So even more concerning are policies that enable the
    training of many of the world's brightest minds at our colleges
    and universities only to see that talent then be removed. So I
    agree with you. I think it's important for us to stay
    competitive in this space but also to do it in a way that's
    supportive of our country.
        Ms. Ross. Thank you.
        Dr. Awadelkarim. I think that----
        Ms. Ross. Both doctors----
        Dr. Awadelkarim. I add my voice to Dr. Liss, you know, in
    that respect. And as I mentioned in my opening statement that
    we need to--you know, to bring the talent or bring the
    workforce or bring the students from all different groups and
    populations. And I mentioned, you know, the underrepresented
    and the veterans, so obviously, you know, there are more
    channels or more pipelines, then that would be most welcome. So
    I think that's an opportunity that could be explored.
        Dr. Liu. I'd just like to add to my colleagues' remarks
    that, you know, it's all about meeting the workforce need but--
    so diversity of talent is wonderful for increasing the number
    of workers but also for increasing the creativity of the
    innovations that we come up with. We all know that if we have a
    greater diversity of ideas in a room, the likelihood that we'll
    come up with something that's even more innovative than our
    competitors is higher. So I think including a wide diversity of
    students is important not only to meet the workforce
    development need but also to meet the need for talent and
    innovation to stay in the lead once we recapture it.
        Ms. Ross. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
        Ms. Liss. Can I add something? Is that allowed?
        Chairwoman Stevens. Yes.
        Ms. Ross. I don't yield back. I reclaim my 1 minute----
        Ms. Liss. Sorry.
        Ms. Ross [continuing]. And 28 seconds, and you may have all
    of it, Ms. Liss.
        Ms. Liss. I didn't know all the rules. I just wanted to add
    to what Dr. Liu said. You know--oh, now, I totally lost my
    thought. I was so on. Oh, I was going to say the studies,
    there's a ton of studies about diversity of thought and
    leadership and even profitability at companies who look to
    hiring a diverse--you know, from diverse communities and
    supporting that, especially on a rise to leadership as well. So
    diversifying is so powerful and important across the board, and
    I just wanted to make sure I said that because I think
    profitability for the companies is also a good selling point on
    the DEI strategies as well.
        Ms. Ross. Well, thank you. And I think we should try to
    recruit and retain as much talent as possible in this country.
    It improves our competitiveness, it improves our innovation,
    and it improves our communities. And with that, Madam Chair, I
    yield back.
        Chairwoman Stevens. Excellent. And with that, we'll--I
    think Dr. Baird was going to not ask 5 minutes of questions. Is
    that OK with you, Jim?
        Mr. Baird. Ask me that question again.
        Chairwoman Stevens. You're good? You're not asking 5
    minutes right now? You're in listen mode?
        Mr. Baird. I'm OK.
        Chairwoman Stevens. OK, good. Well, I appreciate you
    mentioning my love for the auto industry and my automotive
    background because you are spot on that this is absolutely a
    topic that's near and dear to our automotive workforce. And,
    you know, Mr. Gonzalez talked about the Intel lab going into--
    the new fab going into Ohio. Well, it's not Michigan, but it's
    in our area, and that's one of the things we celebrate here is
    all of our Midwestern colleagues. And so we do have another
    colleague from the Midwest, Dr. Foster, who wants to ask 5
    minutes of questions here.
        Mr. Baird. Thank you.
        Mr. Foster. OK. Well, first off, I'd like to just second
    everyone's endorsement of the concept of, you know, basically
    stapling a green card to a STEM Ph.D. diploma, you know,
    particularly in things like chip design. And, you know, the
    COMPETES Act kept components of our Keep STEM Talent Act, which
    was essentially a proposal to do this and not only for Ph.D.
    theses but master's theses and the full range of STEM skills
    that are necessary for a good integrated circuit design
    ecosystem.
        And, you know, at the national lab where I was, you know,
    operating or providing work at least for a lot of the chip
    design team at Fermi National Lab, we always found that a very
    diverse chip design team was tremendously productive. And we
    had these--you know, these blonde all-American kids, and we
    had, you know, Palestinians. We had just everyone you can
    imagine, you know, contributing ideas on these chips that
    really were way beyond what was even available commercially.
    And so I--you know, I saw that benefit up close, the diverse
    thought inputs.
        Now, if I can go back to the question of trying to get
    students hands-on equipment, you know, Dr. Liu mentioned
    correctly that when you have access to absolute state-of-the-
    art chip designs, you can't--you know, it would be crazy to let
    the kids have access to the actual fab equipment, you know?
    Intel cannot let that happen. It's--we ran into that in high-
    energy physics where, you know, even graduate students were not
    allowed to touch the detector because they'd have some bright
    idea and, you know, disrupt the thing. And so that is reality.
        And you're also right to point out that it is the software
    that is really the high bar for entry. You know, back when I
    was designing integrated circuits, they had an open source tool
    called Magic, which may be--do you remember? Yes. Which, you
    know, any university could download and submit a chip and it
    was very open. But some of the intellectual property in the
    chip design software is some of the software that should be
    very closely guarded so that if--that technology does not go
    offshore. And so that is a--you know, it's a real risk that we
    have to find a way to let, you know, universities all over the
    country have access to that state-of-the-art software to build
    state-of-the-art chips and yet not have the intellectual
    property escape. And I think cloud computing has the benefit.
    So that's part of the problem, and I think we can set up a very
    broad-based thing so that anyone in any rural college has equal
    access to state-of-the-art chip fabrication through access to
    the software.
        However, there's a second part of the problem, which is
    getting the next generation of IC process designers and just
    electronic device inventors and having them get access. And
    that's a tougher one because I think you actually need to have
    physical access to the equipment. There is no substitute to be
    able to just walk into the lab, adjust the temperature of this
    or the time of this or the chemical reagents in this step and
    see how it affects device performance.
        And so how--what--you know, what are the promising ways of
    getting that--you know, I think it's unrealistic to distribute
    that to every college in the United States, but we have to have
    at least regional centers where within a reasonable, you know,
    daytrip you can come in and get your hands on that sort of
    equipment. And what are the promising avenues there and the
    ones where the COMPETES Act may be a help? Yes, Ms. Liss, do
    you want to take a stab at that? Or Dr. Liu, either one.
        Dr. Liu. Ms. Liss----
        Ms. Liss. Doctor, do you want to start?
        Dr. Liu. Oh, thank you. Really quickly, we only have a
    minute left, so absolutely, we--so part of the ASA's goal is to
    open up these, let's say, 25 to 30 cleanroom facilities around
    the country so that students can travel not too far, within a
    day, to get hands-on training because I think that's so
    critical, like you have explained. I think we also can take
    advantage of advancements in computing, and this is a good
    research project that could be funded, for example, by the NSF
    to develop digital twins, right? So we can actually create
    digital twins of equipment, of process flows so students at
    these community colleges and universities that don't have
    cleanrooms can actually start to play around with processes and
    try to build devices a little bit before they actually show up
    and play with it hands-on physically to make the most efficient
    use of their time and limited resources at the universities
    that do have these facilities.
        Ms. Liss. I would just add----
        Mr. Foster. There's a big role for the national labs also
    in this that was--because that--you know----
        Dr. Liu. Yes.
        Mr. Foster [continuing]. There are nanotechnology centers
    and so on that--and I know Berkeley is involved in that.
        Dr. Liu. Yes. Yes. Thank you.
        Ms. Liss. And I would just add real quick that, you know,
    it's coming up with a lot of member companies as well that we
    need more training centers to support their needs, so
    everybody's talking about where we could create hubs of
    training centers that could really help benefit and partner
    with university systems as well. So it's definitely a big topic
    of conversation across our member companies.
        Mr. Foster. Yes. And we have to find the right way to
    subsidize that because it won't be a short-term driver of
    profits, and so we just have to recognize that it's a public
    good to have a highly trained integrated circuit design
    workforce and just--and that's the sort of thing where the
    government has to have a role. And I think we've made a mistake
    in not--in trying--being too purist that market's the solution
    to everything here. There are times when we have to come
    together and produce a--you know, a public good like a trained
    workforce.
        OK. Well, thanks much, and my time is expired.
        Chairwoman Stevens. Great. Well, thank you for the second
    round of questions, and thank you again to our witnesses for
    testifying today as we look to all the work ahead for this
    amazing industry, its complexities, the people, all of you who
    are a part of it.
        The record is going to remain open for 2 weeks for
    additional statements from Members and for any additional
    questions that the Committee might ask of you, our witnesses.
    But at this time, quarter to noon Eastern, the witnesses are
    excused, and the hearing is now adjourned. Thank you all so
    much.
        [Whereupon, at 11:49 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

                                    Appendix

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                       Answers to Post-Hearing Questions

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