    [House Hearing, 117 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                      ENTREPRENEURSHIP IN THE NEW ECONOMY

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                          COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                 UNITED STATES
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                                  HEARING HELD
                                NOVEMBER 3, 2021

                                   __________

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                Small Business Committee Document Number 117-039
                 Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov

                                  __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    45-954                     WASHINGTON : 2022

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                       HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

                     NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
                              JARED GOLDEN, Maine
                              JASON CROW, Colorado
                             SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
                             KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
                            DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
                             MARIE NEWMAN, Illinois
                           CAROLYN BOURDEAUX, Georgia
                             TROY CARTER, Louisiana
                              JUDY CHU, California
                           DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
                           ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
                         CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
                              ANDY KIM, New Jersey
                             ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
                  BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking Member
                             ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
                            JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
                            PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
                            DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
                            CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
                           ANDREW GARBARINO, New York
                             YOUNG KIM, California
                             BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
                             BYRON DONALDS, Florida
                             MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
                          SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin

                     Melissa Jung, Majority Staff Director
                Ellen Harrington, Majority Deputy Staff Director
                         David Planning, Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page
    Hon. Nydia Velazquez.............................................     1
    Hon. Blaine Luetkemeyer..........................................     3

                                   WITNESSES

    Ms. Ellie Diop, Chief Executive Officer, Eliza Revella Consulting
      Services, Los Angeles, CA......................................     6
    Mr. Andrew Fogaty, Executive Director, 36Squared Business
      Incubator, Chicago, IL.........................................     8
    Ms. Stephanie E. DeVane, Vice President of Entrepreneurship &
      Business Development, National Urban League, New York, NY......     9
    Mr. Raymond Keating, Chief Economist, Small Business &
      Entrepreneurship Council (SBE Council), Vienna, VA.............    11

                                    APPENDIX

    Prepared Statements:
        Ms. Ellie Diop, Chief Executive Officer, Eliza Revella
          Consulting Services, Los Angeles, CA.......................    39
        Mr. Andrew Fogaty, Executive Director, 36Squared Business
          Incubator, Chicago, IL.....................................    42
        Ms. Stephanie E. DeVane, Vice President of Entrepreneurship &
          Business Development, National Urban League, New York, NY..    44
        Mr. Raymond Keating, Chief Economist, Small Business &
          Entrepreneurship Council (SBE Council), Vienna, VA.........    50
    Questions for the Record:
        None.
    Answers for the Record:
        None.
    Additional Material for the Record:
        Airbnb Report................................................    68
        Kauffman Foundation..........................................    94

                      ENTREPRENEURSHIP IN THE NEW ECONOMY

                                  ----------

                          WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2021

                      House of Representatives,
                   Committee on Small Business,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:03 a.m., in Room
    2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Nydia M. Velazquez
    [chairwoman of the Committee] presiding.
        Present: Representatives Velazquez, Golden, Crow, Davids,
    Phillips, Newman, Chu, Evans, Delgado, Houlahan, Andy Kim,
    Craig, Luetkemeyer, Williams, Stauber, Meuser, Tenney,
    Garbarino, Young Kim, Van Duyne, and Salazar.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Good morning. I call this hearing to
    order.
        Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a
    recess at any time.
        I would like to begin by noting some important
    requirements. Standing House and Committee rules and practice
    will continue to apply during hybrid proceedings.
        All Members are reminded that they are expected to adhere
    to these standing rules, including decorum. House regulations
    require Members to be visible through a video connection
    throughout the proceedings, so please keep your cameras on.
        Also, remember to remain muted until you are recognized to
    minimize background noise. If you have to participate in
    another proceeding, please exit this one and log back in later.
        In the event a Member encounters technical issues that
    prevent them from being recognized for their questioning, I
    will move to the next available Member of the same party and
    will recognize that Member at the next appropriate time slot
    provided they have returned to the proceeding.
        For those Members and staff physically present in the
    committee room today, in accordance with the Attending
    Physician's most recent guidance, all Members and staff who
    attend this hybrid hearing in person will be required to wear
    masks in the hearing room.
        Furthermore, all Members and staff who have not been fully
    vaccinated must also maintain six-foot social distancing from
    others.
        With that said, Members will be allowed to briefly remove
    their masks if they have been recognized to speak.
        With that, let me start my opening statement.
        Since the 1980s, America has largely been in a slump when
    it comes to new business formation. This fact rarely generates
    headlines or garners attention in the media, but its
    implications are severe.
        New businesses make up the foundation of our economy.
    Entrepreneurs that launch enterprises and products are the
    catalysts for American innovation.
        The statistics paint a startling picture of the state of
    our country's entrepreneurial environment over the past four
    decades.
        In 1980, 12 percent of employers were new businesses. By
    2018, this figure had dropped to 8 percent. In 1982, 38 percent
    of all businesses were new firms, compared to just 29 percent
    in 2018.
        In 2018, larger corporations were doing quite well, but
    small firms were exiting the market at a higher rate than they
    were being started.
        This was the state of American startups in March of 2020
    when the pandemic began to intensify. As COVID spread and
    businesses closed, our country was staring down an
    unprecedented economic crisis.
        Using the Great Recession and its aftermath as a guide,
    experts predicted that the pandemic would continue to drop the
    rate of business startups to new lows. Despite the dire
    forecast, American entrepreneurship didn't crater during the
    pandemic--it flourished.
        In 2020, Americans filed paperwork to start 4.3 million new
    businesses. This figure represents a 24-percent increase from
    2019, and by far, the highest number over the past 15 years.
        Many of these businesses didn't look like traditional small
    firms. As the pandemic drove commerce online, these new
    enterprises were primarily concentrated in the nonstore, online
    retail sector.
        The entrepreneurs starting these new businesses also
    reflected the diversity of the American population in the 21st
    century. Black and Hispanic communities led the way in
    launching new companies.
        Young entrepreneurs dealt with the tough job market by
    pivoting toward entrepreneurship to develop businesses and
    products to serve their communities.
        No one factor fully account for this entrepreneurship boom.
    Layoffs, a favorable credit market, and federal stimulus
    efforts all helped lay the ground work for this record rise in
    new businesses.
        So today I hope that this hearing allows us to better
    understand this entrepreneurial revival and apply those lessons
    moving forward. The pandemic disrupted many areas of American
    life, not least of which being the nature of work.
        The challenges facing this new generation of entrepreneurs
    aren't identical to the problems of the pre-pandemic economy.
    We must work to understand these new challenges and find ways
    Congress can better support them in the post-pandemic world.
        It is also vital that we grasp why entrepreneurship
    flourished during COVID and what can we do to sustain that
    increase in the future. COVID closed countless small businesses
    and left many others on the brink of disaster.
        Yet, at the same time, it is possible the pandemic set in
    motion a revitalization of American entrepreneurship. Today I
    look forward to hearing from our witnesses about the journey
    that led them to start a business and how this committee can
    support them and others like them in the future.
        I now would like to yield to the Ranking Member, Mr.
    Luetkemeyer, for his opening statement.
        Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Madam Chair, and good morning.
    We meet today for a hearing on entrepreneurship in the new
    economy. Regrettably as we have all witnessed over the past
    year, the outlook for our nation's entrepreneurs is dismal.
        Small businesses, small business owners, entrepreneurs, and
    startups are known to be resilient and skillful, easily
    adapting to changing conditions. They are fast and can adjust
    to meet the needs of their customers. They can pivot with speed
    and capture market share.
        These small business attributes, along with vigilant risk-
    taking and investing, are key ingredients to a growing economy.
        The COVID pandemic, coupled with Biden and the Democrats'
    failed economic policies have brought severe economic
    challenges to main street USA. Entrepreneurs across the
    country, from both coasts to the middle of the country, face
    incredible obstacles.
        This fall economic growth ground to a halt as all
    businesses confronted by severe supply chain disruptions,
    ongoing labor shortages, skyrocketing inflation, higher costs
    of nearly everything, and threats of tax increases from the
    Democrats.
        To follow, an overreaching vaccine mandate has been
    proposed with very limited information.
        Small business owners and the entrepreneurs require clear
    and concise rules and information to make business decisions.
    Uncertainty can't be part of their business model. Unknown next
    steps bring their planning to a complete halt.
        With each of these issues coming to the forefront, let's
    review them. We can begin with supply chain disruptions and
    higher costs. Small businesses, which operate on thin margins,
    have been shocked by recent supply chain failures.
        NFIB September Economic Trends survey found 90 percent of
    small businesses have been affected by these disruptions, and
    nearly half of all small businesses experience product delays
    from their suppliers.
        With empty shelves continuing to be a common sight in our
    local communities, the fourth quarter and the holiday season
    could be a rough stretch for the nation's job creators.
        At the same time, demand for goods has increased, pushing
    prices even higher.
        Labor. Across all industries, labor shortages have hindered
    the ability of companies to get products made, shipped,
    unpacked, and transported. Once the products and goods have
    arrived, the businesses often do not have a full staff ready to
    meet and greet customers.
        The Biden administration's worker shortage means that
    employers now have 10.4 million job openings. Let me repeat
    that: 10.4 million job openings, and no one willing to fill
    them. NFIB found 51 percent of small businesses have unfilled
    job openings, a staggering and record number.
        In addition, employers are facing record numbers of workers
    quitting their jobs. And, according to the Federal Reserve, the
    pandemic has resulted in a record 3 million early retirements.
        This is a dreadful situation as we head into what should be
    the busiest time of the year for businesses: the holiday
    season.
        Inflation. Despite the Biden administration's denials, it
    is very clear that inflation is no longer temporary or
    transitory. In October, the Department of Labor reported that
    the Consumer Price Index, one trusted measure of inflation, is
    now at a 13-year high of 5.4 percent.
        Even the Federal Reserve Chairman, who has insisted for
    months that inflation is transitory, recently admitted that
    inflation is expected to remain high well into next year.
    Overall, inflation means higher prices for small businesses,
    along with higher prices for their customers.
        Tax increases. Could there be a worse time to threaten
    entrepreneurs and small firms with tax increases? In February,
    President Biden said the U.S. had lost more than 400,000
    businesses since the pandemic began, and many more were at
    risk.
        Yet the Biden administration and congressional Democrats
    have proposed a huge number of tax increases to fund their
    massive spending programs. We are not sure, however, which tax
    increases are still on the table, although it seems to be
    changing by the minute. But surely the last thing small
    businesses need coming out of a pandemic are tax increases.
        Employer vaccine mandates. In September, President Biden
    announced that his administration is developing a regulation
    that would require all private sector employers employed by a
    business with a hundred or more employees to be vaccinated or
    submit to weekly testing.
        According to the Society of Human Resource Management, 89
    percent of employers fear at least some of their employees will
    quit as a result. The uncertainty surrounding these rules is
    putting the brakes on small businesses as they try to get back
    on their feet and serve their communities.
        A labor shortage crisis, accompanied by an employer vaccine
    mandate, are a grave threat to American small business
    prosperity. How much more can small businesses withstand? Taken
    alone, each of these policies is devastating, but taken
    together, their impact is likely to have serious, long-term
    consequences for entrepreneurship.
        Madam Chairwoman, we should be enacting policies that will
    empower entrepreneurs. Attentive risk-taking and investing are
    what will grow our economy. However, entrepreneurs are facing
    an economic storm that is preventing this progress.
        I appreciate our witnesses being with us today. I look
    forward to the testimony.
        With that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Luetkemeyer. The
    gentleman yields back.
        I would like to take a moment to explain how this hearing
    will proceed. Each witness will have 5 minutes to provide a
    statement, and each Committee Member will have 5 minutes for
    questions. Please ensure that your microphone is on when you
    begin speaking and that you return to mute when finished.
        With that, I would like to introduce our witnesses. Our
    first witness today is Ms. Ellie Diop, CEO of Ellie Talks
    Money. Ms. Diop was laid off from her corporate job months
    before the pandemic. After submitting over 50 job applications,
    Ms. Diop capitalized on her $1,200 stimulus check and
    entrepreneurial spirit to create her business.
        Ellie Talks Money is an online coaching and consulting
    service for aspiring and established business owners that was
    able to build a net worth of over a million dollars in less
    than 1 year.
        Welcome, Ms. Diop.
        I would like to yield to Ms. Newman to introduce our second
    witness.
        Ms. NEWMAN. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member. I am
    proud to introduce Mr. Andrew Fogaty, a resident of the great
    State of Illinois and from my district. He currently serves as
    both the director of the Illinois Small Business Development
    Center at the Greater Southwest Development Corporation and as
    executive director of the 36Squared Business Incubator, both in
    Chicago.
        In addition, he serves as a mentor with the Gallery
    Incubator in Evanston, Illinois.
        For over 12 years, Andrew has led local economic
    development initiatives, help launch nearly 70 companies,
    served as an adviser to more than 300 others, and facilitated
    more than $40 million in funding for his clients.
        In 2017, he founded an all-abilities business incubator in
    the 36Squared building on the Chicago southwest side and was
    selected at the 2020 State Star by the Illinois Small Business
    Development Center Network.
        I just have to tell you on a personal note that Andrew is
    quite amazing, and we are so proud to have him in our district.
    But it is a pleasure to welcome Mr. Fogaty to speak today.
        Thank you, Chairwoman, and I yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back.
        Our third witness is Ms. Stephanie DeVane, the Vice
    President of entrepreneurship and business development at the
    National Urban League. The National Urban League is a historic
    civil rights organization dedicated to economic empowerment of
    historically underserved urban communities.
        As the Vice President of entrepreneurship and business
    development, Ms. DeVane manages, oversees, and advocates on
    behalf of 12 entrepreneurship centers located in key
    affiliates. In this capacity, her division supports these
    affiliate small business programs through capacity building and
    programming sub grants and by providing them with training and
    technical assistance.
        Welcome, Ms. DeVane.
        I would now like to yield to the Ranking Member, Mr.
    Luetkemeyer, to introduce our final witness.
        Mr. LUETKEMEYER. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Our next witness is Raymond J. Keating. Mr. Keating is a
    chief economist with the Small Business and Entrepreneurship
    Council, or SBE. He writes and speaks on a wide range of issues
    impacting the entrepreneurship sector of the economy.
        His areas of expertise include taxation, monetary policy,
    federal, state, and local budgets, regulation, and economics.
    He has written hundreds of articles with pieces published in
    The Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe, Chicago
    Tribune, and Investor's Business Daily.
        Mr. Keating holds an M.A. in economics from New York
    University and an MBA in banking and finance from Hofstra
    University, and a B.S. in business administration and economics
    from St. Joseph's College.
        I want to thank all the witnesses for joining us today.
        And, with that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Luetkemeyer.
        Thank you all for being here today.
        Ms. Diop, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

       STATEMENTS OF ELLIE DIOP, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, ELIZA
     REVELLA CONSULTING SERVICES, LOS ANGELES, CA; ANDREW FOGATY,
    EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 36SQUARED BUSINESS INCUBATOR, CHICAGO, IL;
       STEPHANIE E. DEVANE, VICE PRESIDENT OF ENTREPRENEURSHIP &
    BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT, NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE, NEW YORK, NY; AND
          RAYMOND KEATING, CHIEF ECONOMIST, SMALL BUSINESS &
           ENTREPRENEURSHIP COUNCIL (SBE COUNCIL) VIENNA, VA.

                        STATEMENT OF ELLIE DIOP

        Ms. DIOP. Thank you. Good morning, Members of the Small
    Business Committee--oh, there we go. Sounds a lot better. Good
    morning, Members of the Small Business Committee. I am very
    grateful to be here. My name is Ellie Diop, and I am CEO and
    founder of Eliza Revella Consulting Services, also known as
    Ellie Talks Money. I have a business coaching and consulting
    company that I started in the pandemic.
        So my path and journey to entrepreneurship is not like many
    others. I am also a mother of four, and as you mentioned in
    introducing me, I wanted to get another job after being laid
    off before the pandemic began. And I did apply feverishly to
    several jobs, over 53 in fact.
        And my experience is one in corporate America. I have
    served as director of sales for over 3 years, but I was not
    able to find employment. And so, when the stimulus checks, when
    I knew that they were coming, I began to make a plan on
    starting a business with that small--what I was looking at as a
    capital investment.
        And I conducted market research and really analyzed what
    did other businesses need at this time, what--where are
    businesses struggling, you know, and I did this market research
    by leveraging social media.
        And so I came to the determination that other small
    businesses really needed assistance in sales, which is
    something I was very good at. They needed assistance in finding
    funding, something I also knew how to do.
        And so, when I received the stimulus check, I put it to use
    and purchased things like a website, a domain, a new phone, a
    ring light, all things that I knew I would be able to use to
    build a brand and build a following online.
        And so, with consistency, dedication, and posting content
    on social media about three to five times per day, in 10
    months, I was able to net $1.3 million. And that is sheerly by
    having the access to entrepreneurship.
        So I share with my clients all of the time, and as their
    coach, I am giving them the tools and strategies that they need
    to scale their own businesses by leveraging what we have, which
    is the internet and social media.
        And, because I started this with, you know, $1,200, I am
    always reminding them that you don't need a large sum of money
    or a large capital investment in order to make a lot of money
    in your business. It is just about utilizing the right
    strategies. It is about staying committed. It is about staying
    dedicated and leveraging what we have available to us.
        So now I am very grateful that the business has grown, and
    I have been able to employ, myself, five people. It is a very,
    you know, amazing turn of events, being that it was so
    challenging for me to find a job. Now I am in a position where
    I can actually create jobs.
        And my goal for 2022 is to increase our staff to 10,
    hopefully, and to continue from there, but definitely where the
    biggest success in this entire accomplishment truly is, is just
    that I have been able to show and inspire people, over 300,000
    people, that if I can do this, so can you.
        You know, a lot of--there is a misconception that
    entrepreneurship, or the ability to start a business, is one
    that begins with a silver spoon in someone's mouth. But I think
    that my journey has been able to show people that, regardless
    of where you are starting with, even as, you know, a mother,
    just coming out of a divorce, single mother trying to find a
    job, you can actually take the circumstance that you are given
    and completely change the narrative and change the scenario.
        So we live in a time where entrepreneurship is truly more
    accessible than ever, and given the right tools, small business
    owners can absolutely repeat what I have been able to do.
        Now, you don't need to have money to pay for advertising.
    You don't need to always have a lot of connections. You need to
    have grit. You need to have resilience. You need to have
    dedication and commitment to what product you want to sell.
        And now, with platforms like social media--Instagram,
    Facebook, Twitter--all platforms that I have leveraged, you are
    able to go directly to your audience and make the sale.
        We don't have to go through all of these complicated
    channels, which actually gives small businesses a higher
    opportunity to thrive and survive than we may have had 4 or 5
    or 6 years ago.
        So I am very grateful to be able to share my experience and
    my success and entrepreneurship with you all and thank you.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Ms. Diop for that
    inspiring story, it is really rewarding to know that there is a
    role for the federal government to play, particularly by
    empowering women like yourself.
        Now I will recognize Mr. Fogaty for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Fogaty, please unmute yourself.
        Mr. FOGATY. I was afraid that would happen. Good morning,
    Chairwoman Velazquez----
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. We cannot hear you, Mr. Fogaty.
        Mr. FOGATY. Really? I am unmuted. Can you hear me now?
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Fogaty, we are going to correct
    the technical issues, and now we will recognize Ms. DeVane.
        Ms. DeVANE. Chairwoman Velazquez, Ranking Member----
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Ms. DeVane, please unmute yourself.
        Ms. DeVANE. I am also unmuted.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The problem is here.
        Mr. FOGATY. I should say I can hear Ms. DeVane.
        Ms. DeVANE. And I can hear Mr. Fogaty.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. We are going to take a brief recess
    until HRS address the issue.
        [Recess.]
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. This hearing is called to order.
        Now we recognize Mr. Fogaty for 5 minutes.

                       STATEMENT OF ANDREW FOGATY

        Mr. FOGATY. Thank you very much and good morning,
    Chairwoman Velazquez, and distinguished Members of the
    Committee. Again, my name is Andrew Fogaty. I am with the
    36Squared Business Incubator in Chicago.
        I also oversee two of the Illinois Small Business
    Development Center locations, one at 36Squared and one at the
    Greater Southwest Development Corporation. Both locations are
    also part of the City of Chicago's Neighborhood Business
    Development Center Program.
        What this means is that myself and my colleagues, both
    across the city and the State, provide business assistance,
    training, and advising to area residents at no charge.
        I want to thank Congress for inviting me to participate in
    this hearing and also for the quick action that was taken last
    year with programs like the Economic Injury Disaster Loan,
    Paycheck Protection Program, and CARES Act funding.
        Given that this was the first time that an unforeseen
    disaster affected virtually every business in the country at
    the same time, I think that the actions of Congress and the SBA
    were key to averting what could have been a much more serious
    crisis.
        These programs continue to help save businesses across the
    country, so again thank you for that.
        That being said, the small business landscape has changed,
    and serious challenges remain. The subject today is
    ``Entrepreneurship in the New Economy,'' and my testimony will
    focus on four main areas: access to capital, reducing the
    digital divide, manufacturing, and working with underserved
    communities.
        Access to capital for small businesses, and especially
    startups, remains a challenge. In fact, if a business needs a
    small loan of $10- or $20,000, I am only aware of one bank in
    Chicago, CIBC, that actively markets programs to meet that
    need.
        There are, of course, also some nonprofit lending options.
    However, these are typically at a higher interest rate and less
    desirable than a bank loan.
        I would like to see more banks offering micro lending and
    startup funding, and I would like to see the reporting process
    for lenders streamlined to make small business lending more
    attractive.
        It is my understanding that there is legislation now that
    may--on the books right now--that may significantly increase
    reporting requirements in all small business loan applications,
    and I am concerned that this may negatively impact my clients.
        Access to capital is key to supporting entrepreneurship in
    the new economy.
        Next, I would like to address computer literacy. The
    digital divide is real, especially in underserved communities.
    Today, computer literacy and basic business training are as key
    to an entrepreneur's success as being able to read or write was
    20 years ago.
        We need to do better with this by making basic computer
    skills training and business assistance programs widely
    available across the country.
        In fact, when CARES Act funding ends next fall, many small
    business development programs across the country will actually
    see a decrease in capacity, and this is a concern.
        Next, I would like to address manufacturing. Last year's
    difficulty in obtaining vital PPE supplies and this year's
    supply chain issues demonstrate a clear need to support our
    domestic manufacturing capabilities.
        Certainly a simplification of the federal procurement
    process would be a start.
        And, finally, I would like to discuss the underserved
    population. Here on Chicago's south side, we have a diverse and
    vibrant small business community, including a significant
    number of immigrant business owners who hold ITINs instead of
    Social Security numbers. Currently these business owners are
    shut out of most SBA lending programs.
        I certainly don't presume to jump into the immigration
    debate. However, if a business seeks to expand, buy equipment,
    a building, or create jobs, I would like to be able to present
    the same options to all my clients.
        Perhaps the most disadvantaged of the underserved
    populations are the disabled people. Advances in technology and
    making small business ownership--are making small business
    ownership a much more viable option for our disabled
    population.
        This is a trend that is only going to increase in the
    coming years. I would like to see more of an effort made to
    include these entrepreneurs into the wider business development
    world.
        Thank you again for having me, and I look forward to your
    questions.
        Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Fogaty.
        Ms. DeVane, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF STEPHANIE E. DEVANE

        Ms. DeVANE. Chairwoman Velazquez, Ranking Member
    Luetkemeyer, and Members of the House Committee on Small
    Business, thank you for the opportunity to testify at today's
    hearing titled ``Entrepreneurship in the New Economy.''
        My name is Stephanie DeVane, and I am the Vice President of
    Entrepreneurship and Business Development at the National Urban
    League. I bring you greetings on behalf of Marc Morial, our
    president and CEO.
        The National Urban League is a historic civil rights
    community-based organization dedicated to economic empowerment
    and the guarantee of civil rights for African Americans and
    other underserved communities in America.
        We are a national nonprofit intermediary and provide
    direct, comprehensive services that improve the lives of nearly
    2 million people each year. We are a network of 91 Urban League
    affiliates and the District of Columbia.
        In my role, I manage, oversee, and advocate on behalf of 12
    Urban League Entrepreneurship Centers, which provide
    management, counseling, mentoring, and training services for
    entrepreneurs looking to start, grow, or scale their business.
        While the typical client of the Entrepreneurship Center
    program is a low- to moderate-income African-American woman
    with an existing business, our centers also serve Caucasian,
    Hispanic, Asian-American entrepreneurs.
        In 2020, our centers helped approximately 23,928
    participants secure $108.6 million in financing and contract
    opportunities, as well as save or create 714 full- or part-time
    jobs through our counseling and training services.
        The COVID-19 pandemic and resulting economic disruption has
    disproportionately impacted minority businesses and also
    exacerbated existing structural inequities in small business
    lending.
        In April 2021, a Federal Reserve survey found that
    minority-owned businesses were simultaneously hardest hit by
    pandemic-related closures and were only half as likely as
    White-owned firms to receive the necessary Paycheck Protection
    Program small business relief funding they needed to pay their
    workers and stay afloat.
        For minority-owned business, the racial wealth gap and
    implicit bias have made securing access to capital exceedingly
    difficult.
        During the pandemic, our entrepreneurship centers conducted
    training, workshops, and counseling sessions through digital
    and telephonic means with clients. We hosted webinars to guide
    entrepreneurs experiencing cash flow issues through the
    disaster loan application process and provided links to
    resources to help entrepreneurs develop disaster recovery
    plans.
        From June 1, 2020, through May 31st of this year, with
    support from a CARES Act MBDA award, our centers helped 11,250
    businesses secure $137.6 million in financing and contract
    opportunities, as well as save or create 1,174 full- and part-
    time jobs, with over 15,800 hours of counseling and over 33,000
    hours of training.
        Specifically, our services were directed at providing COVID
    relief to minority businesses lacking access to capital or with
    inadequate financial management practices and less flexible
    operating models.
        We also received support through the PepsiCo Foundation to
    run our Black Restaurant Accelerator Program which is helping
    keep the doors of small businesses and food-and-beverage
    industries open.
        One of the program's beneficiaries is Beaucoup Eats, a New
    Orleans neighborhood eatery that provides full-service catering
    and meal prep services. Here is what owner Keisha Reed had to
    say about the program: ``The grant from PepsiCo allowed us to
    purchase three tents, which meant we could serve at least 50
    people, and overhead costs were lowered. Given the current 72-
    hour test and vaccine card mandate for inside eating and the
    inside reduction, we were only able to accommodate 6 to 10
    people on the inside at any given time. Without the assistance
    of the grant, we wouldn't be able to generate the revenue
    needed to stay in business during this ongoing pandemic.''
        I also note that the National Urban League was just awarded
    a $5 million Small Business Administration Community Navigator
    Award, which will allow us, through 25 Urban League affiliates,
    to reduce barriers for minority-owned businesses through
    critical support and resources.
        Last year, Black-owned businesses saw a surge in sales
    corresponding to the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement.
    However, as public support for it began to stagnate, business
    owners saw sales level off.
        In the new economy, Black-owned small businesses continue
    to experience lower paths returning to pre-pandemic employment
    levels and face a more uncertain future recovery relative to
    their peers.
        Many Black-owned businesses continue to lack access to
    capital needed to fully recover due to implicit bias and the
    legacy of racism.
        To ensure a full economic return for minority-owned
    businesses in this new economy, we urge Congress to enact civil
    rights protections and guardrails that will reduce any racial
    disparities in access in capital, while increasing access to
    prime government contract opportunities, mentorship, minority
    incubator support, and technical skills training.
        Please see my submitted testimony for more detailed
    recommendations.
        On behalf of the National Urban League, thank you for the
    opportunity to testify. I look forward to your questions.
        Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Ms. DeVane.
        Now we recognize Mr. Keating for 5 minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF RAYMOND KEATING

        Mr. KEATING. Chairwoman Velazquez, Ranking Member
    Luetkemeyer, Members of the Committee, thank you for hosting
    this important hearing.
        My name is Raymond Keating. I am chief economist with the
    Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council. For more than 26
    years, SBE Council has worked to strengthen and improve the
    ecosystem for startups and small business growth.
        As you all know, entrepreneurs take on risks and
    uncertainty in order to innovate, introduce new products and
    services, and find better ways to do things. And, by doing so,
    they boost productivity, enhance competition and choice, fuel
    economic growth, and create new jobs.
        Indeed, entrepreneurs, along with the investors who are
    essential for funding startups and business growth, are central
    to the economic income and employment growth we all want to see
    happen.
        For our economy, in my written testimony, I look to key
    indicators on where we stand right now. By the second quarter
    of 2021, entrepreneurs, investors, businesses, and workers had
    worked to get the economy back to where it was pre-pandemic.
        However, we still face the task of getting back to where we
    should be, given the lost growth, and then maintaining strong
    growth thereafter.
        Unfortunately, 2 percent real GDP growth, which is where we
    stood in the third quarter, is anemic under normal
    circumstances. At 2 percent growth, U.S. economic
    underperformance will be extended far into the future.
        We need to do much better, and that will depend
    significantly on the state of entrepreneurship.
        So I go on to look at various measures of entrepreneurship
    in my testimony. It is clear that entrepreneurship was lagging
    well before the pandemic. It suffered when COVID hit, and it
    has struggled to come back in many ways.
        But hope can be found in the trend in new business
    applications. After suffering big declines when the pandemic
    first struck, the number of business applications quickly
    skyrocketed beyond where they had been prior to the pandemic
    and have remained at elevated levels.
        The historical relationship between such applications and
    actual business formations indicates that they are, again, as
    reason for hope. Although, it must be noted that a pandemic
    economy is uncharted waters.
        At the same time, the expansion of what many call the gig
    economy would support this data, as would more people
    positively considering entrepreneurship due to their pandemic
    experiences, as we have heard here already.
        As for challenges for entrepreneurs, there are many, some
    being evergreens and others specific to our current situation.
    For example, a key evergreen, again, is financing. We have
    heard people talk about that already.
        As businesses reach various stages, though, angel investors
    and venture capitalists, for example, become vital for
    providing the funds to fuel innovation and growth.
        And regarding our current situation--again, in my written
    testimony, I explore the labor shortages, supply chain
    challenges, and inflation--these are all quite real and quite
    significant issues, creating problems, risks, and
    uncertainties.
        Of course, there are also expanding opportunities for
    entrepreneurs. I highlight two areas in my written testimony.
    The first is technology. Whether generating new products,
    improving and enhancing production, and/or expanding
    distribution, technological advancements in areas like
    computer, digital, and broadband technologies, for example,
    have served to expand opportunities for entrepreneurs.
        Social media, again, as we have heard, for instance, has
    served to help create and transform businesses.
        A second major area of expanding opportunities for
    entrepreneurs is the international marketplace. Technology
    advancements coupled with economic growth abroad have opened
    doors in the international arena for entrepreneurs.
        Keep in mind that some 95 percent of the world's consumers
    are outside the United States, and as the data show,
    international markets are not the near exclusive domain of
    large businesses, as many assume.
        Finally, in this, getting the public policy mix right is
    always critical for our economy and for entrepreneurship, but
    getting it right becomes even more critical as we struggle to
    emerge from a pandemic economy.
        I just offer what I call a pro-entrepreneur policy
    framework in my testimony: Avoiding tax increases and providing
    substantive and permanent tax relief that enhance incentives
    for starting up, building, and investing in businesses.
        Emphasizing regulatory relief, not imposing additional
    regulatory burdens. If anyone understands the cost of
    regulation, it would be small business owners, especially as
    those costs mount with more and more regulations imposed, you
    know, regulation after regulation.
        Advancing free trade is critical. Reducing--meaning, you
    know, reducing government-imposed cost on trade such as tariffs
    is pro-growth, and the U.S. really needs to reclaim its global
    leadership role on trade.
        Also, implementing a constructive immigration policy agenda
    that expands avenues of immigration for those who wish to
    contribute by working and starting businesses, while enhancing
    security, of course, to keep out terrorists and others who
    would do us harm.
        That is a pro-entrepreneur framework that we put forward.
    Thank you again for your invitation to be part of this hearing
    today, and I look forward to any questions.
        Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, and thank you to all our
    witnesses. We really appreciate all you have shared with us
    today.
        I will begin by recognizing myself for 5 minutes, and I
    would like to address my first question to Ms. DeVane.
        As Americans quit their jobs in record numbers, women are
    leading the change in what is known as the great resignation.
    Ms. DeVane, what shift in the labor force occurred during the
    pandemic to make women more likely to launch a small business?
        Ms. DeVANE. Thank you for that question, Chairwoman
    Velazquez. My experience, through our entrepreneurship center,
    is that many of the women that started businesses during the
    pandemic had been laid off from their jobs, similar to Ellie,
    who told her story.
        Many of these women business owners had decided at that
    point to start their own business. Some of them were passion
    projects. Some of them were built out of necessity. But many of
    the business owners that we saw were women, and they were using
    that opportunity to start businesses.
        They use and utilized our centers, which had technical
    assistance services, counseling and mentoring and training
    services to start businesses.
        In addition to that, many of them saw opportunities through
    grant programs that the National Urban Leagues and other
    organizations made available that were specifically for women-
    owned businesses to start and grow their businesses.
        In addition to that, there were grants available for
    minority women-owned businesses to help undergird some of the
    training that we were providing to them.
        Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you for that answer.
        Ms. Diop, what advice do you have for others that are
    considering starting a business during times of uncertainty?
        Ms. DIOP. Thank you, Chairwoman Velazquez, for that
    question.
        I would definitely advise women who want to start
    businesses in a time of uncertainty, or any time, to utilize
    the resources that they have available to them to the fullest
    extent.
        And that may be monetary, but also I would advise them to
    utilize the resources within themselves. Many times we don't
    realize that the experience we have gained in jobs or in life
    can directly lend to success in business.
        And I know for myself, everything that I have put into my
    coaching and consulting business are skills and experience that
    I have gained throughout corporate America and just throughout
    college and all of the experience that I have.
        So I think that is a number one thing is to--I always teach
    my clients to make a list of everything you know how to do,
    your experiences, your knowledge, your skills, and pull a
    business from that list. That way you are more guaranteed to
    succeed because you are naturally working within something you
    already know how to do rather than venturing off into a
    business that you think you should start based on what, you
    know----
        Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you. Thank you for that answer.
        Mr. Fogaty, during the pandemic, many businesses have
    struggled to adapt to the changing nature of work and have
    faced challenges with supply chain issues, access to capital,
    and employee retention. Can you please describe your role at
    the 36Squared Incubator and how a $1 billion investment in
    incubators in the Build Back Better Act will help create more
    entrepreneurs?
        Mr. FOGATY. Certainly. Well, I certainly agree with the
    testimony of the previous witnesses.
        What we do is provide assistance and support, not only
    through the SBDCs; I also have colleagues in the ITCs,
    International Trade Centers. This is a network of professionals
    who, at no charge, will help manufacturers and facilitate their
    exports, as Mr. Keating alluded to.
        We also have what is known--I also have colleagues who are
    what is known PTACs, Procurement Technical Assistance Centers,
    and these are available across the country, as are SBDCs and
    ITCs. The PTACs will facilitate and assist entrepreneurs with
    getting government contracting.
        We are also in--the city of Chicago has Neighborhood
    Business Development Centers. So my point is there is a lot of
    free assistance out there. We don't have all the answers, but
    we have a number of resources so that we can find the answers.
        And I think it is important to support small business
    development centers, entrepreneurship centers, incubators, as
    they reach out and try and guide entrepreneurs and small
    businesses through this time.
        Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
        Mr. Keating, I just ran out of time. Maybe if we go into a
    second round, I will be able to ask you a question. Thank you
    very much.
        Now I recognize Mr. Williams, Vice Ranking Member of the
    Committee, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I want to
    thank our Ranking Member too, and witnesses for being here
    today.
        Every American can see that our country is facing one of
    the worst supply chain stories in history. I see it firsthand.
    I am a car dealer--I have been for 51 years--employ hundreds of
    people, and I can tell you, it is serious.
        And U.S. ports are struggling to unload deliveries, and
    inventory is just sitting on container ships in the middle of
    the ocean.
        Families are preparing for the most expensive Thanksgiving
    meal ever, and we are told that by the administration, and
    worry if Christmas gifts will even be available.
        This supply chain crisis has become a substantial issue for
    small businesses across the country, forcing business owners to
    make operational adjustments in order to compensate for the
    lack of inventory and revenue.
        So, Mr. Keating, what are small businesses who operate on
    fixed margins to do when they don't have a product to sell or
    can't afford to pay their workers, and what do you think the
    long-term effects of these supply chain disruptions will have
    on our economy?
        Mr. KEATING. Well, I agree with you a hundred percent, and
    in terms of small businesses owners, they are being impacted
    more so than large firms just because they operate on such thin
    margins.
        You know, the long-term issue--listen, in the short term,
    this is going to be an issue that we need government to not
    impose additional burdens, like I mentioned in my testimony--
    taxes, regulations, things like that--provide relief where they
    can, and then the private sector is going to work through this.
        It is going to be very painful. It has already been very
    painful.
        And then the question is how--you know, long-term effect.
    The long-term effect is going to be determined by how many
    businesses survive these issues and these problems. We have
    already seen what the pandemic has done.
        I mean, various surveys, you know, either we have lost
    hundreds of thousands or even millions of small businesses
    during the pandemic. So now we have got this additional issue
    of working through trying to get back to where we were at
    least. And the long-term impact is going to be, again, how many
    small businesses have we lost.
        Again, I take some hope in those business application
    numbers, where you see people think--at the very least, they
    are thinking about entrepreneurship as an option, and that is
    what we are going to need going forward.
        Mr. WILLIAMS. Perfect. Let's talk about inflation. It is
    still on the rise, and hardworking Americans are paying more
    for food, gas, and other utilities. And a recent report by the
    Department of Labor showed that inflation has spiked to 5.3
    percent, a record high in 13 years.
        So, meanwhile, Democrats continue their push to inject over
    $3 trillion of new federal spending into the economy and
    threatening to worsen inflation for months or years to come.
        So the Biden administration refuses to acknowledge the risk
    of hyperinflation. They argue that proposed spending packages
    are fully paid for and will have no impact on inflation.
        So, again quickly, Mr. Keating, in your testimony, you
    state that the inflation numbers are undeniable, and can you
    talk briefly about the current impact on inflation, whether you
    think it is transitory like the Federal Reserve argues?
        Mr. KEATING. Yeah. I always get concerned when the Fed,
    whose primary responsibility is stable prices, kind of pooh-
    poohs what is going on with inflation. So I am not quite clear
    how long this is going to last. I don't think any of us are,
    and that is part of the problem, right?
        Inflation comes with uncertainty, there is volatility, all
    of the issues that, you know, higher interest rates, all of
    these problems. So the issue--going forward, I wish I heard
    more from the Fed, that, hey, listen, we are taking this
    inflation issue very seriously, and perhaps we are going to
    start to rein in these historically unprecedented loose
    monetary policies that we have been running really since the
    summer of 2008. I think that would be a great step.
        And then also, on the fiscal side of things, you know,
    inflation is all about too much money chasing too few goods. I
    like the idea of incentivizing the production of more goods.
    So, if we could have pro-growth fiscal policies, meaning tax,
    regulatory, trade policies, combined with some monetary
    restraint, that is how we got out of this mess in the 1980s
    when we had stagflation, and that is how we are going to get
    out of the mess today.
        Mr. WILLIAMS. Okay. Quickly, in the time I have remaining,
    in your opinion, what are the impacts of higher taxes and
    increased government regulations on small businesses,
    particularly on the heels of the COVID-19 setbacks? Higher
    taxes do nothing but hurt business. We need to cut taxes. So,
    quickly, how do you feel about that?
        Mr. KEATING. Well, you are right on. Listen, higher taxes
    always come with costs for negatives to the economy, negatives
    for small business. And then, when you are thinking about doing
    it as we struggle to get out of a pandemic economy, I am
    bewildered by that. This is the worst possible time to be
    imposing higher taxes and more regulatory burdens.
        And, without a doubt, you can talk about targeting at this
    income level or that income level; ultimately, everybody gets
    hurt and largely because investors get hit. That means less
    capital for entrepreneurs, and we need entrepreneurs, again, to
    drive innovation, economic growth, and job creation.
        Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Madam Chairman, I yield my time
    back.
        Ms. VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back, and now we
    recognize the gentlelady from Kansas, Ms. Davids, Chairwoman of
    the Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Tax, and Capital Access,
    for 5 minutes.
        Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you, Chairwoman, and I am excited about
    this hearing today. You know, America's small businesses and
    small business owners, entrepreneurs, have really faced
    enormous and unprecedented challenges over the last year and a
    half because of COVID, and we have heard about that during this
    time from our witnesses.
        And we also heard that, against all odds, we are seeing
    Americans start new businesses. Even in 2020, 4.3 million new
    businesses were started, and that is the highest number of new
    businesses over the last 15 years.
        So, while we have unprecedented difficulties, we are also
    seeing unexpected and inspiring startup and unexpected and
    inspiring startups surge. It is, I think, a testament to the
    entrepreneurial spirit that we have got in this country, and I
    am glad we are taking the time to understand that today.
        And so my first question, Ms. Diop--is that the--okay--I
    wanted to ask you about, you know, in your written testimony,
    you mentioned that you became an entrepreneur because you had
    to. And I think that is something that a lot of folks face, but
    I am curious, of the things that you were able to navigate, can
    you share with us a little bit about the challenges that you
    didn't see coming, and, you know, what were those?
        Ms. DIOP. Thank you so much, Ms. Davids.
        Certainly there were challenges that I ended up facing
    which I couldn't have anticipated, and I would say the largest
    one is learning how to go from a one-woman, or person, business
    to then delegating and expanding it.
        I, as I mentioned in my testimony, started my business out
    of necessity. Because I couldn't find a job but I had children,
    I needed to take what I knew how to do and turn it into a
    business that could then serve others.
        Where the shift happened and where the first challenge
    really came is, okay, now how do I take this and make it
    something that is not only about me but then can create a space
    for other people who either need a job or further need support
    in their own businesses.
        So scaling is a huge part of entrepreneurship, a huge part
    of running a small business, and can be the largest challenge,
    but I was able to navigate that through research, support, and
    trial and error.
        Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you. And I am--the idea of scaling and
    kind of those almost, like, back-office type of skills, you
    know, the Kauffman Foundation, which is based in the Kansas
    City area--the Kansas Third is on the Kansas side of the Kansas
    City metro area--and the Kauffman Foundation has done a lot of
    research, and they talk about accounting and legal advice. And
    I am curious about how that is one of the biggest obstacles. I
    am curious how you handled--like, you mentioned research. Like
    what kind of steps did you take to address that?
        Ms. DIOP. Absolutely. So I did ask a lot of questions. I am
    very grateful that, in my time running this business, I have
    been able to make connections. And so a lot of clients who
    would book me for a call would actually be in the field of--the
    legal field, or perhaps they were in the field of finance.
        And so, in exchange for me helping them to gain clarity on
    how to scale their own businesses, I was then able to ask them,
    well, since you are in the financial field, what should I do?
    You know, since you are in the legal field, what steps can I be
    taking to really expand this so that it is not just my small
    business but something that can really grow and walk on its own
    legs? So that was a key element of my research.
        And then, as well, I am from Los Angeles, California, so I
    looked up small business development programs and centers near
    me where I could go and ask questions: How do I navigate this
    next step? I have done this much so far by myself, but I know
    that I need further support.
        So those types of programs, such as the one you mentioned
    in Kansas, are so very needed. I really did mine the scrappy
    way by just, you know, researching and figuring it out. But,
    when people can have access to information that provides them
    with that necessary infrastructure support, it really
    strengthens their ability to be a long-term, lasting business.
        Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you for that. And I think, you know, from
    your description about how you got into being an entrepreneur
    and also from Ms. DeVane, you know, the work that they are
    doing, and now as a community navigator--community navigator
    grantee, it sounds like one of the things that we need to do is
    try to make sure that our resources, from the federal
    perspective, are available and known to everyone.
        With that, I will yield back. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Ms. VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back.
        Now we recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Luetkemeyer.
        Mr. LUETKEMEYER. [Inaudible.]
        Ms. VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman from Pennsylvania, Ranking
    Member of the Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Tax, and Capital
    Access, Mr. Meuser, is recognized.
        Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Chairwoman Velazquez, and thank you
    to our Republican leader, Mr. Luetkemeyer, and thank you very
    much to our witnesses, and thank you, Ms. Diop for being here
    with us, and to all on virtual.
        Clearly, the last 19 months have been very challenging for
    small business. Even though I am a Member of Congress, I have
    been experiencing it from my past life, as well as just working
    with the constituents and helping them through, navigating
    through the COVID crisis, from PPP to shutdowns to you name it.
        Ms. Diop, your story was compelling, amazing.
    Congratulations. I want to ask you a couple questions about
    that, but first I am going to just go to Mr. Keating.
        Mr. Keating, as small businesses, entrepreneurs, as you
    have mentioned a couple of times, have dealt with cost of
    goods, shortages, all kinds of cost increases, inflation, wage
    increases, which we all like, but when they come so suddenly
    and creates the shortages, as well as the added unexpected
    expenses--government is not in the business of creating jobs.
        Government's role is to create the best environment
    possible for the private sector to create those jobs. So, in
    light of the many issues that exist--workforce, I mentioned
    them, inflation, cost of good increases, supply chain problems,
    pending OSHA mandates--how has government done in helping or
    worsening small businesses' challenges, Mr. Keating?
        Mr. KEATING. Yeah. Unfortunately, I would like to say we
    were doing better than we are. When you look at all the signals
    that entrepreneurs, small businesses, investors, are getting
    from Washington, it has been, you know, what taxes are we going
    to increase; let's look at all sorts of new regulatory
    initiatives. And they span across from labor to antitrust and
    everything in between.
        You know, we still haven't unwound tariffs that were
    imposed. So, you know, there is not much going on, on the trade
    front to be able to expand opportunities.
        So bottom line is, you know, the overarching signals are
    not positive from the federal government, I would argue, in
    terms of policies for small businesses.
        Mr. MEUSER. Okay. So perhaps reversing some of those,
    keeping taxes competitive so goods made in Asia are not more
    competitive, regulations that do affect supply chain, that is
    what we should--in your view----
        Mr. KEATING. Absolutely. Absolutely. Regulatory reform, in
    a positive sense, would be great. I mean, imagine if the
    business community, including entrepreneurs and small
    businesses, were hearing from Washington that, hey, we are
    going to start sunsetting regulations so that we can assess
    each one if it makes sense going forward, right?
        How about we have more input from Congress, rather than
    leaving it all to appointees and bureaucrats, right, having
    Congress actually approve each rule and regulation. So those
    types of reforms would be a big plus, I think.
        Mr. MEUSER. All right, thanks a lot.
        So, Ms. Diop, you are based in Los Angeles? Well, again,
    congratulations, your determination, hard work, probably a lot
    of smart work as well, a tremendous amount of thinking and
    probably loss of sleep, but really, really great American
    business story.
        So taxes in L.A. and federal taxes, I am not going to ask
    you what you pay in taxes--it is your business--but I would
    guess it is somewhere in the neighborhood of about 40 percent.
    Do you think that that is helpful to your business or--so just
    talk about that a little bit.
        Would raising those taxes affect you? Would you prefer them
    to stay where they are? Would you like to see them lowered a
    little bit? How would that help your small business?
        Ms. DIOP. Yes. Thank you so much for your question, Mr.
    Meuser.
        Taxes are definitely a challenge, and the biggest wake-up
    call in this entrepreneurship journey that I have had.
        I think that, you know, taxes as a new business owner can
    be navigated more thoroughly with proper education and with
    proper support. I think one thing that is lacking is taxes are
    almost like a smack in the face when you start a business.
    There isn't any, you know, preparation to help a small business
    owner know what they need to expect in terms of the magnitude
    of what the tax rate can be and how to fully prepare for it.
        I do think that, as small business owners, you know, lower
    taxes can certainly help because of the fact that we are
    already operating on margins that, you know, we have to pay
    other employees, we have to, you know, pay for other startup
    capital, depending on what type of business that you are in.
    I----
        Mr. MEUSER. I am sorry. I am out of time.
        But, Madam Chair, I would just like to ask, perhaps Ms.
    Diop can provide us with what you would like to see us do to
    help your clients and to help you. So maybe we can do that even
    in a second round or maybe you could just send us an email on
    that.
        Ms. DIOP. Okay.
        Mr. MEUSER. I yield back, Madam Chair. Thank you.
        Ms. DIOP. Thank you.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
        The gentlelady from Illinois, Ms. Newman, is recognized for
    5 minutes.
        Ms. NEWMAN. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        I just have a quick question for Mr. Fogaty and then for
    Ms. Diop.
        So, Andrew, first of all, good to see you. Can you share a
    little bit of what you think would be the number one most
    powerful thing that Congress can do to help incubators,
    particularly with entrepreneurs of color and entrepreneurs with
    disabilities? If you could nail a number one down that Congress
    could do to provide incubators specifically and then
    providing--or providing and empowering more incubators, what
    would that be?
        Mr. FOGATY. Well, support, of course, in the financial
    sense for incubators, and I would also--for disadvantaged
    entrepreneurs, especially the severely disadvantaged
    entrepreneurs that I deal with, with blind people, severe
    disabilities, I would like to see some sort of a grant program.
    Right now, I have a chef who is blind. I would love to see her
    be able to get a space at O'Hare. She has--she had a restaurant
    and, fortunately, closed it just before the pandemic--it was a
    great time to close a restaurant--so that she could start a
    family, but she is getting ready to get back into it. She would
    do well at a place like O'Hare or Midway, but the cost of
    getting into one of those spaces is really prohibitive for a
    disabled entrepreneur.
        So, you know, certain segments of our entrepreneurship
    world do need grants and startup support, and we should also
    encourage the lenders, the banks, perhaps through the CRA
    program, to support both incubators and the entrepreneurs
    themselves.
        Ms. NEWMAN. Thank you very much.
        And then, Ms. Diop, so, first of all, congratulations.
    Amazing. So, if you think back to when you were first starting,
    what do you think would have been the number one thing that
    would have helped you with what you are calling the surprise
    around taxes? And so I was in exactly your shoes 17 years ago,
    and I was, like, wow, that is interesting.
        Now, as we all know, that, once you identify your
    deductions properly, legally, and ethically and all of those
    things, your taxes come down greatly. And then, when you choose
    a tax category, it is a breeze then. And, actually, it is much
    better to be a small business than a big business. And, as you
    know, moving forward, your rate will likely stay the same or
    lower based on the Build Back Better plan, so I just wanted to
    clarify that for the record.
        That said, what would be the number one thing maybe in
    terms of, you know, small business literacy on the ledger side
    or whatever that would have been, gosh, it would have been good
    to know that?
        Mr. DOHERTY. Yes. Thank you so much, Ms. Newman, for your
    question. I would definitely say that what would have been
    helpful at the very beginning is perhaps when small businesses
    go to register for their business, and they are in that initial
    phase of becoming official, you know, any type of documentation
    or any type--maybe a letter or just something that can really
    assist them with understanding, okay, now that you have
    registered a business, here are the most common deductions for
    the category you have chosen, for the industry that you have
    chosen. Here are ways that you should be tracking those
    deductions. Here are resources maybe near you or resources
    online that can help you to start practicing tracking your
    deductions and proper accounting measures. Because once I got a
    handle on my taxes and the expenses, I then immediately had to
    start coaching other business owners on the proper ways to
    track their own expenses and track their income because, truly,
    they had no idea. And if you don't set aside a certain amount
    of money, then you are slapped with a very large tax bill that
    then can really set you way back, and you almost feel like you
    are starting your business from the beginning if you are not
    fully prepared.
        So I definitely think measures like that would be very
    helpful and can further educate business owners even before
    they start the business on, hey, here is everything you need to
    be ready for. Yes, it is great, but also make sure that you
    know what to do when it comes to paying your taxes and when it
    comes to doing it the legal and ethical way.
        Ms. NEWMAN. Well stated, and thank you. Great idea. So
    thank you for your time.
        And I yield back, Chairwoman.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back.
        The gentleman from Minnesota, Mr. Stauber, is recognized
    for 5 minutes.
        Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
        You know, the COVID shutdowns were devastating to
    communities and the American economy. By the end of 2020,
    government lockdowns eased, businesses began to reopen, and our
    economy started to rebound. Things were on the up, and
    businesses had great optimism, but the Democrats marched
    forward with their first partisan spending spree, the American
    Rescue Plan, a $1.9 trillion package, despite the nation's
    positive recovery trends. This was the beginning of the many
    crises we are facing today.
        First, the cost of the American Rescue Plan has caused
    immense inflation. Gasoline is up 42.1 percent. Electricity is
    up 5.2 percent. Transportation is up almost 5 percent. And all
    these costs mean less money for our small business owners to
    take home to their families, who, by the way, are having to pay
    12.6 percent more for meat, 12.6 percent more for eggs, and
    11.9 percent more for their children's footwear.
        Second, the American Rescue Plan continued to pay people
    more money not to work. Now, U.S. employers are still
    struggling to fill more than 10.4 million job openings. Labor
    shortages for truck drivers, dock workers, warehouse employees,
    no wonder there are issues with our supply chain.
        So here we are in the middle of a crisis. Prices of goods
    continue to skyrocket right before the holidays. Shelves are
    empty. A real look at what the Biden agenda has gotten the
    American people so far, and, yet, the Democrats say let's spend
    more, trillions more. And how will we pay for it? How are we
    going to pay for that? Oh, that IS right. Taxes again on small
    businesses. That is wrong. I simply do not understand how my
    Democratic colleagues can convince themselves that they are
    doing good work on behalf of the American people.
        With that, I would like to use the remainder of my time to
    turn to the testimony of our witnesses, and I thank you all for
    being here today.
        Mr. Keating, do you know how many small businesses are
    organized as subchapter C corporations or passthrough
    businesses?
        Mr. KEATING. Actually, most businesses are passthrough
    businesses, S corps, LLCs, sole proprietorships and so on, so
    that is the bulk of--it is--over 90 percent, I believe, off the
    top of my head, are non-C corps.
        Mr. STAUBER. Okay. So close to 90 percent. So can you speak
    to how an increase in the corporate tax rate and a limitation
    on section 199A deduction will harm these businesses?
        Mr. KEATING. Well, there are a couple things, real quick,
    about the corporate tax. First off, there is this misnomer
    going around that most C corps are large businesses. And,
    again, when you break down the numbers, most C corps are small
    businesses, small and midsize companies. So, when you are
    talking about an increase in the corporate income tax rate, you
    are talking about an increase directly on many small
    businesses. And then, obviously, any kind of tax increase on C
    corps are going to affect their universe, their network of
    businesses as well, which obviously covers non-C corps that
    serve those businesses, that work with those businesses and
    work with their employees.
        Mr. STAUBER. Well, thank you very much.
        I think, Madam Chair, Ranking Member Luetkemeyer, I
    appreciate you holding this hearing. And, you know, we have
    always talked about small businesses are the engine of our
    economy. They are the engine of main street. And we continue to
    tax them and put devastating policies, not allowing them to
    succeed. We need to protect small businesses and ensure they
    are the engine of our economy.
        And I yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
        The gentlelady from California, Ms. Chu, is recognized for
    5 minutes.
        Ms. CHU. Ms. Diop, I was so inspired to hear your story,
    and as a Representative of Los Angeles area congressional
    district, I was especially inspired. You faced obstacles that
    could have defeated so many people, having been rejected from
    job interviews 53 times, but you used your creativity and
    determination to use that $1,200 stimulus check that we sent
    out to start your own business.
        And I was thrilled to hear that, because of your success,
    you hired 5 people and are planning to hire 10 more--5 more for
    10 people total.
        So, Ms. Diop, in April, I reintroduced my legislation, H.R.
    2680, the PROGRESS Act, which would support the smallest of
    businesses, those without any employees, by helping them expand
    and incentivize third-party investment. This legislation will
    create a refundable payroll tax for non-employer firms that
    hire their first full-time employee and also an investment
    credit to encourage third-party capital investment into non-
    employer firms. Non-employer firms are much more likely to be
    owned by women and female entrepreneurs on average and start
    out with roughly half the capital as male entrepreneurs; hence,
    the legislation.
        So can you talk about policies to level the playing field
    by having such incentives for first-time employees as well as
    third-party investments could help entrepreneurs like you?
        Ms. DIOP. Absolutely, and thank you so much for your
    question, Representative Chu. I would definitely agree that
    incentives to level the playing field, to use your words, and
    assisting new business owners, as well as new women business
    owners, can certainly be helpful because especially those of us
    who are new entrepreneurs that are mothers, we have an entirely
    different set of challenges to face when it comes to starting a
    business. So any measures and incentives that could alleviate
    some of those to, for example, in my case, give me access to--I
    had the $1,200 but any other programs that provide grants or
    simply just access to resources to further assist in starting a
    business in that way is certainly helpful.
        Ms. CHU. Okay. Thank you for that.
        Mr. Fogaty, thank you for your testimony. I am glad that
    you mentioned that many small businesses struggle to access
    affordable loans for smaller amounts in the private market,
    even some nonprofit lenders. In fact, you say that the access
    to capital is a challenge. And, of course, also some nonprofit
    lender options exist but that they are typically at a higher
    interest rate and are less desirable than a bank loan.
        So that is why I have been working for years to authorize
    the Community Advantage Loan Program, which provides SBA backed
    7(a) loans to this exact subset of small businesses, those who
    cannot qualify for an affordable loan from a commercial bank or
    traditional 7(a) lender but need financing that is under
    $250,000. So I am so pleased that the current Build Back Better
    framework does include $275 million in funding for the
    Community Advantage Program.
        So can you elaborate on this gap in the lending market for
    smaller dollar loans and what that means for small business
    borrowers? And can you discuss how SBA programs like Community
    Advantage, which leverages a government subsidy to offer
    favorable rates to borrowers, can play in filling the gap?
        Mr. FOGATY. Sure. The SBA loan programs, all of them,
    including the Community Advantage, are key to small business
    growth, and I am all for them, and they should certainly be
    supported. It is certainly good legislation although, as I did
    say before, in Chicago, especially on the southwest side, we
    have a number of ITIN holders who cannot access most of those
    loan programs.
        Every small business, every startup, when they are looking
    for small loans, $20-, $30-, $40,000, it is really not worth
    the bank's while, in my opinion, to make those loans happen. So
    I would like to see some way of incentivizing the banks,
    streamlining the reporting procedures, helping us as the
    business advisors make these loans available to small
    businesses because there is that gap from the small amount of
    startup funding when you get going, and then, when you are
    ready to expand, hire employees, you are not looking for a
    million dollar loan. You are--many of my clients are looking
    for $20-, $30,000, and there are just not a lot of choices out
    there. Thank you for your question.
        Ms. CHU. Thank you. I yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back.
        Now we recognize the gentlelady from New York, Ms. Tenney,
    for 5 minutes.
        Ms. TENNEY. Thank you, Chair Velazquez and Ranking Member
    Luetkemeyer, for holding this minute. I am a small business
    owner in New York. Our business is celebrating its 75th year.
    It is a very difficult landscape in New York, high taxes, a lot
    of frustration obviously with the employment situation now, but
    95 percent of the businesses and the people in my district
    actually got a tax cut from the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. Only the
    wealthiest actually received a tax increase under the last
    plan. It was a breather for us to finally get some relief to
    reinvest in our communities, reinvest in our business from, you
    know, the heavy tax burden that is put on us by New York State.
        But my question and my concern is that 60-plus or more
    percentage of these new jobs always come from the small
    business community like ours.
        We would love to expand and grow, and we know that venture
    capital is really important. But one of the things that, in
    being the heart of the industrial revolution started in my
    district when the Erie Canal was started, is the loss of a lot
    of these manufacturing jobs, a lot of jobs where--a lot of the
    manufacturing sector where we have a lot of investment, but we
    need long-term solutions, and we have long horizons that we
    need to meet which we are going to stay in there for a longer
    period of time.
        So we also provide a lot of jobs for people who don't
    necessarily have to be skilled initially, but we want to put
    the training in. We take advantage of that if we can. And that
    is why, you know, one of the initiatives I put through is the
    American Innovation and Manufacturing Act, which would--and I
    am grateful for the bipartisan sponsorship of this bill--which
    would give innovation to small manufacturers and give them the
    flexible capital that they need. So this is really--you know,
    we think this is a first step.
        But I wanted to ask, first, Mr. Fogaty, because I know this
    is a huge issue. It is a huge issue for my company. We are
    small. We only have 70 employees. But what is--how important is
    it to support domestic manufacturing and that we need to
    streamline the reporting regulations? You alluded to it in
    investing in small business, but specifically dealing with, you
    know, the ability to thrive in a State like New York where we
    have such heavy regulation?
        Mr. FOGATY. Yeah. No manufacturer likes regulation, and
    they have been having a very, very tough time of it. I would
    also--when I talked about streamlining, I think that the
    manufacturers that I work with would like to see some
    simplification, some streamlining of the procurement process.
    The Systems Award Management system, SAM, which is the federal
    government system for enrolling to get federal contracts, last
    year, I had a couple of manufacturers pivot pretty quickly from
    what they were doing to making PPE. And this is a time when the
    masks were, you know, in great demand. And they were able to
    pivot quickly, but they were not able to sell to the government
    in an expedited way.
        And some of the systems, as I said, the SAM system. I have
    helped a couple of blind entrepreneurs navigate the SAM system,
    and it is--you know, I don't want to be overly critical, but it
    is certainly in need of an update.
        Ms. TENNEY. We got some of that criticism as well, you
    know. Good intentions, but in practice, it was hard for a lot
    of our entrepreneurs to really access it.
        Mr. FOGATY. Yeah. Absolutely. And, again, we really, really
    need to--I am sorry.
        Ms. TENNEY. Go ahead. No. Go ahead.
        Mr. FOGATY. I was going to say we really need to support
    domestic manufacturing, American manufacturing through things
    like on-the-job training programs so that we can bring a job
    seeker in and the manufacturer, the employer does not have to
    look to somebody who already has these skills. There is an
    incentive so they can train them.
        Ms. TENNEY. Yeah. We have invested heavily in that with our
    business as well. Thank you.
        Mr. Keating, you said in your testimony that the recovery
    from the pandemic slowed dramatically in the third quarter of
    this year, fiscal year 2021, and that real GDP grew at a mere 2
    percent in the third quarter. You said this was largely because
    of the consumer pullback. Why do you think consumers lost
    confidence in the recovery, and what steps can we do to restore
    confidence? Really quickly because I only have 20 seconds left.
        Mr. KEATING. I would suggest consumers--it was also
    business investment pulled back. I think the signals again from
    Washington were very troubling. In your State, I am one of the
    people that just left. I moved to Florida from New York. I grew
    up there. The tax and regulatory burden is a mess. That is what
    you have to deal with to get things right in New York, and good
    luck. But, yeah, those signals from Washington, I think, had a
    real effect.
        Listen. I said for the longest time, and I know I am
    probably talking too much, but after we experienced the bounce-
    back, my question has always been, what are we going to do then
    on the policy front to make sure that we accelerate economic
    growth going forward? And what we are seeing right now is not
    the answer.
        Ms. TENNEY. Thank you. I really appreciate that.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady's time has expired.
        Now we recognize Mr. Evans from Pennsylvania for 5 minutes.
        Mr. EVANS. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Ms. DeVane, it is great to have you here. And, in my
    younger years before I became a Pennsylvania State legislator,
    I worked as a job developer at the Urban League in
    Philadelphia. I have seen tremendous work that your
    organization does to advance economic opportunity for Black
    Americans and for those in underserved communities.
        Despite the toll the pandemic has taken on the economy
    here, there has been some silver linings. Last year, Americans
    filed paperwork to start 4.3 million new businesses. This is a
    24-percent increase from 2019. This 24-percent surge in
    entrepreneurship was largely concentrated in Black and Hispanic
    communities with high median income.
        Ms. DeVane, this is my question to you: What factors do you
    think contribute to this increase in Black and Hispanic
    ownership businesses?
        Ms. DeVANE. Thank you very much for the question,
    Representative Evans. And, of course, once an Urban Leaguer,
    always an Urban Leaguer. It is great to see you.
        I think a couple of things have contributed to that. One is
    that many people were laid off from their jobs and needed,
    quite frankly, to find employment and took to entrepreneurship
    as an opportunity to gain some economic freedom and
    independence.
        I think a number of other entrepreneurs came about because
    they wanted to start their passion projects. They turned their
    side hustles into businesses because the environment was right
    to do so. There were grants available from private companies.
    There were government grants available. There were PPP loans
    available for those who could get them. I think, for many
    business owners, this was an opportune time to delve into the
    workforce.
        Mr. EVANS. Ms. DeVane, the National Urban League website
    states the number one challenge facing 80 percent of small
    business owners is lack of capital and cash flow. Has this
    changed during the pandemic, and if so, how?
        Ms. DeVANE. Yeah. We saw our business owners tremendously
    affected by the pandemic. Most of them were already struggling
    beforehand. We have talked about that a little bit. They didn't
    have the back office, the fiscal systems, the operational
    systems, the strategic management in place, and so, when the
    pandemic hit, it was just exacerbated. And I think many of
    these businesses struggled and shuttered their doors.
        I think the ticket for many of these business owners is the
    technical assistance provided. Capital is sorely needed, and we
    have talked about that. But capital always has to be
    undergirded by coaching, by training and development. You don't
    know what you don't know, as Ellie found out with the tax
    situation. So I think for us, the National Urban League, our
    affiliate network through our entrepreneurship centers have
    been providing the knowledge and the tools and the skills that
    folks need to very develop those operational systems, put
    fiscal management practices in place, and to help people to
    strategize to grow their businesses and to avoid this type of
    situation as they learn to pivot during crises.
        Mr. EVANS. Ms. DeVane, many small businesses fail after
    just a few years. Can you tell us what Congress can do to
    ensure many of the businesses that started during the pandemic,
    especially minority businesses, continue to grow and provide
    jobs and opportunities in their communities?
        Ms. DeVANE. Absolutely. I think that what those businesses
    need--obviously, capital is always sorely needed, but in
    addition to that, it is the technical assistance. I think that
    this SBA community navigator program is a great example of what
    government can do. This program will help to use trusted
    advisors, such as the Urban League affiliates, to go out into
    communities where business owners don't have access to these
    tools, don't understand what is available to them through the
    government, and we can go out and talk about the resources that
    are available and drive people to the SBA and to other
    organizations that can provide the skills that they need to
    grow these businesses. We really need technical assistance. We
    really need incubation programs that help people to develop and
    scale and grow their businesses, and we need capital.
        Mr. EVANS. I think I have a few more seconds left.
        My home city of Philadelphia had a poverty rate of 24.5
    percent in 2020 with two-thirds of those at poverty being Black
    or Hispanic. How do we better reach Black and Hispanic
    entrepreneurs in communities with lower median income?
        Ms. DeVANE. We used trusted advisors like our Urban League
    affiliates. We live and we work in those communities. We know
    those communities. We provide wraparound services, not just
    entrepreneurship, through our Urban League affiliates. And
    those are the folks that know business owners in those
    communities, those are the ones that are trusted by the
    business owners, and those are the ones that need to be going
    out like we are doing through our Urban League affiliates,
    evangelizing, providing services, technical assistance, and
    capital to those business owners. And I think that is the
    ticket.
        Mr. EVANS. Thank you.
        I yield back the balance of my time, Madam Chair. Thank
    you.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
        The gentlelady from California, Ms. Young Kim, Ranking
    Member of the Subcommittee on Innovation, Entrepreneurship, and
    Workforce Development, is recognized for 5 minutes.
        Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you, Chairwoman.
        I would like to go right into questioning Mr. Keating.
        Can you elaborate on how continual lackluster job growth,
    like we saw this past September, this incentivizes individuals
    from establishing their own small business?
        Mr. KEATING. I am sorry. The lack of job growth; is that
    what you are saying?
        Ms. YOUNG KIM. Yeah. The lack of job growth.
        Mr. KEATING. Yeah. I think what we have heard here is
    absolutely correct. When you look at entrepreneurship, there
    are different types of entrepreneurs, right. Some dive into the
    waters; others get pushed. And what we saw during the pandemic
    is, I think, a combination of people being pushed, right. I put
    in my testimony, Walt Disney once said, when you can't get a
    job, you start your own business, right, and that is what we
    have seen here.
        But, also, I think the fact that people have experienced
    more independent work or independence, and I think that has
    them thinking about being their own--you know, owning their own
    business, looking towards entrepreneurship. I think, in a very
    tough time, those are some of the positives that hopefully are
    going to come out of this.
        Ms. YOUNG KIM. If we are not hitting the mark with expected
    growth on GDP, how does that affect business confidence in the
    medium to long term?
        Mr. KEATING. Yeah. Well, there is uncertainty now, right,
    and we saw the bounce-back, the snap-back, and we were pleased
    about that, even with all the problems, supply chains and labor
    shortages, and all of a sudden, we see GDP kind of put the
    brakes on at 2 percent here.
        Now, there are a whole host of issues, I think, that are in
    the mix, including the Delta variant and so on and so on, but
    this just raises more questions. That is not good for business.
    It is going to raise more questions with investors, right,
    because we saw a part of the story on GDP was the slowdown of
    business investment. Business investment is critical now, and
    it is critical for future growth. So that just adds more
    uncertainty into the equation, and that has me concerned.
        Ms. YOUNG KIM. Yeah. You know, I represent southern
    California, and my home State of California has one of the
    highest unemployment rates in the country, and unemployment
    claims keep raising. I mean, it keeps going up, not decreasing.
    It is a concern for us from the big State of California.
        But, Mr. Keating, in your written testimony, you noted a
    MetLife U.S. Chamber survey indicating 44 percent of small
    businesses are finding it harder to fill the open positions.
    Can you tell us if you have found a correlation between small
    businesses not having available workers and the decline in the
    labor force? Why do you think we are seeing a decrease in labor
    force participation?
        Mr. KEATING. Yeah. That is--you know, when you look at that
    unemployment number, I always tell people, go deeper when you
    look at the unemployment rate because right now, we saw an
    improvement in the unemployment rate. Like, hey, wow, that is
    great, right, but part of that improvement was people leaving
    the labor force again.
        Now, with the pandemic, everybody should be coming back,
    right, so this is--again, it is an issue that has been around
    really since the 2008 recession. Why have people not come back
    to the labor force to the degree that they should? Some people
    say it is age, but when you zero in on the work, you know,
    working age, 25 to 54, we are still not back to where we should
    be, so that has me very concerned.
        I am hoping that these business application numbers maybe
    point to people becoming entrepreneurs. That would be a net
    positive. But I am not quite sure what the answer is. There are
    a whole host of things, I think, culturally, economically that
    are in the mix here. And, again, that is something that I think
    we need to wrestle with and really delve into.
        Ms. YOUNG KIM. Something we need to continue to think about
    and worry about, you know. One more question to you, Mr.
    Keating. Some parts of California are experiencing some of the
    highest average gas prices ever. In some parts where I am in
    southern California, L.A., Orange County, they have hit a 13-
    year high. Some place I saw close to $6 per gallon. Can you
    speak of how supply chain bottlenecks and even the threat of
    higher taxes can impact entrepreneurial behavior?
        Mr. KEATING. Yeah, all those things. I mean, when you are
    talking about gas prices, right, that is fundamental to
    everybody, right, including small business owners. So, you
    know, California does have to deal with its own regulatory
    issues and tax issues. There is a reason why, even when gas
    prices are low, you guys still tend to be among the highest. So
    I think part of it is a California issue.
        Ms. YOUNG KIM. Yeah----
        Mr. KEATING. But then, obviously, nationally, we are all
    dealing with the bottlenecks and the shortcomings and so on.
    So, again, I think it is a question of, yes, the private sector
    has got to work through this, but we have got to make sure that
    government allows private and doesn't get in the way of doing
    that.
        Ms. YOUNG KIM. Thank you very, very much.
        I am happy to yield back the balance of my time.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back.
        Now we recognize the gentleman from Minnesota, Mr.
    Phillips, Chairman of the Subcommittee on Oversight,
    Investigation, and Regulations.
        Mr. PHILLIPS. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Greetings, colleagues, and great gratitude to our witnesses
    for being with us today.
        We all know the pandemic is wreaked havoc on our small
    business ecosystem, both in the U.S. and around the world. The
    recent surge in entrepreneurial activity, however, is really a
    welcome silver lining, I think we would all agree. They
    represent seeds of optimism, if you will. Now, we, Democrats
    and Republicans on this committee, have to do everything we can
    to water those seeds and ensure new businesses have access to
    the resources and mentorship and assistance necessary for them
    to keep their doors open and generate economic success.
        And, you know, I think it is fair to say that all of us on
    this committee want to see Americans become self-sufficient.
    But too many people who have dreams, entrepreneurial dreams and
    ideas, still can't access capital, mentorship, counsel, and
    assistance. I hope we can unite around this.
        And my first question is to you, Ms. DeVane. And I think it
    is fair to say that human beings tend to seek out others who
    share similarities. It is part of the human condition. It is
    also a phenomenon that, in my estimation, can adversely affect
    already underserved communities. A lot of the credited
    investors are a disproportionate number, of course, in America
    are older, White, and male, frankly, like me, and they tend to
    invest in entrepreneurs who share similar backgrounds. And you
    have noted in your testimony that this contributes to the very
    disparities we are talking about between White and minority-
    owned business owners and their abilities to access capital and
    counsel. So if you might just detail for us policies that you
    think can directly address that issue and help underserved
    communities with entrepreneurial dreams and ideas gain access
    to credit and other federal resources.
        Ms. DeVANE. Certainly. Thank you for the question,
    Representative Phillips. I think that one of the things that
    needs to be addressed--and we have done this at the National
    Urban League. When the PPP program first came out and a lot of
    the Black-owned and other minority-owned businesses didn't have
    access, we worked with the government to make sure that
    minority depository institutions and CDFI, community-based and
    community mission-driven institutions played a role and had
    access to those programs so that they could provide those
    businesses with capital. Those are businesses that operate in
    underserved communities. They are trusted by those communities.
    Having support and the government supporting those types of
    financial institutions is certainly a ticket.
        Also, ensuring that SBA lenders, many who our business
    owners did not have relationships with, have access to and are
    incentivized to work with those small businesses and also to
    certainly provide small dollar loans with low interest rates
    that are accessible and reasonable for small businesses is
    something that the National Urban League is very interested in
    making sure that our business owners have access to.
        Mr. PHILLIPS. Great.
        If I could go a little further upstream, my friend and
    colleague Representative Van Duyne from Texas and I were
    speaking the other day about business day. I remember business
    day in my school, elementary school, where we learned to start
    a little organization, whether it is selling lemonade or a
    service or printing T-shirts, whatever you have. What do you
    think of that notion of trying to establish entrepreneurial
    education as part of the public curricula around the country so
    we can teach kids who don't have entrepreneurial models in
    their households or communities often, at least the
    underpinnings of business and try to encourage a more self-
    sufficient entrepreneurial generation? What do you think of
    that notion?
        Ms. DeVANE. That is a great question, and we are huge
    supporters of that notion. In fact, we--you know, I live in New
    Rochelle, a little bit upstate of New York City, and our high
    school has an entrepreneurship program. And I am starting to
    see many of those, and we are fully supportive of those types
    of programs.
        It is never too early for a child to have an option not to
    go into the workforce but to be financially independent through
    owning their own business. And our Urban League affiliates are
    very successful, many of them, with youth entrepreneurship
    programs down in the elementary and the high school level.
        As a matter of fact, our Los Angeles Urban League recently
    over the summer held a small business camp for youth
    entrepreneurs, and one of our entrepreneurs was extremely
    successful, just got $10,000 through another organization
    pitching her business. And so, we are very much in support of
    youth entrepreneurship. It is never too early.
        Mr. PHILLIPS. Great. Since I only have 15 seconds left, if
    the three other witnesses would just raise your hand if you
    like that idea of trying to inspire business days and
    entrepreneurship education. Good. I like that. We don't see too
    much unanimity these days. Thank you all.
        I yield back my time and am grateful to all of you for
    being with us.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
        The gentlelady from Texas, Ms. Van Duyne, Ranking Member of
    the Subcommittee on Oversight, Investigations, and Regulations
    is now recognized.
        Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much, Ms. Chairwoman, and I
    appreciate Congressman or Chairman Phillips, your shoutout.
    Yeah. We have--it is amazing when you talk to each other how
    much you actually do have in common. And I appreciate your last
    question and everybody agreeing on it. When you actually try to
    find common ground, you can find it. So I appreciate that very
    much and all of you being with us today.
        Over the past 2 years, small businesses have struggled to
    survive in this new economy, as my colleagues on the other side
    have termed it. Now, as we look around, the environment our
    small businesses and entrepreneurs are living in is dismal.
    Every economic report we see falls short. GDP growth has slowed
    to 2 percent. If you take into account what folks had, it is
    actually zero percent that we have seen. Inflation has hit
    record levels, raising prices for all Americans, and labor is
    in short supply.
        At a time when small businesses need to focus on keeping
    their shelves stocked, they must begin planning for the higher
    taxes and increased regulations that come within the two
    historic new spending bills that some progressive Democrats are
    rushing to pass.
        If we want to retain our uniquely American entrepreneurial
    spirit, the government shouldn't be paying people to stay more
    at home and to work and trying to regulate American businesses
    out of existence. Instead, we should be pushing for lower taxes
    and lower barriers to entry for entrepreneurs.
        Mr. Keating, I really appreciate your comments here today.
    A recent World Economic Forum report pointed out that supply
    chain barriers are hard to overcome for small businesses due to
    the significant capital investments needed. You know, we have
    seen Target, Walmart, others are able to figure it out. They
    have got other avenues that small businesses simply don't. So,
    in your view, how do regulations impact small business supply
    chains and their ability to adjust compared with larger firms?
        Mr. KEATING. Well, by definition, greater regulation is
    going to make you less innovative, less--there is less agility
    there to respond as needed, so that is a big part of the supply
    chain challenges.
        Now, on the positive side, to go positive for a moment, one
    of the things about small businesses is that they are more
    agile, right, so they can work to find ways to perhaps meet,
    you know, the needs of their customers where bigger businesses
    might be a little slower. I am not denying your point. Your
    point is spot on in terms of the Walmarts and Amazons and so
    on, but the great thing about being a small business owner and
    entrepreneur is that you have that ability to pivot, and we
    have seen that in this pandemic.
        So the challenges are there. More regulation does not help.
    It hinders it. But being an entrepreneur in and of itself
    allows you to kind of do some things that a larger business
    can't.
        Ms. VAN DUYNE. We just left--it is ironic because I just
    left. I am on the Transportation and Infrastructure committee
    as well, and we just had a focus on supply chain issues. We had
    folks there with trucking, with shipping logistics, and just
    talking about some of the barriers that government has actually
    put in their way of being able to be more productive, more
    efficient, and it is actually hurting the supply chain.
        One of the things that they discussed was the vaccine
    mandates. And, obviously, we are in a different moment
    laborwise. So we spoke with businesses of all sizes, and a
    common concern is the upcoming vaccine mandate that is being
    imposed by the Biden administration. How do you think this
    mandate will affect small businesses?
        Mr. KEATING. Well, that is the question, isn't it? And that
    is part of the problem is that we don't know. You know, our
    organization is--we say we are pro-vaccine, antimandate.
    Businesses are pretty good at figuring out their own situation
    and maybe how they might have to deal with certain employees in
    a certain way, right. When government steps in and does the
    mandate thing, that doesn't--you know, you don't have that
    ability to now deal with your particular situation and be able
    to deal with your particular employees. The flexibility is
    needed, I think, for small business owners in a big way.
        Ms. VAN DUYNE. I mean, the concern was--and I think you
    know our Transportation Secretary, Pete Buttigieg, was very
    callous in his response. The items in question are not simply
    Christmas gifts or toys. I mean, we are talking about liquid
    oxygen. We are talking about seeds and fertilizer to be able to
    put food into the ground for crops. We are talking----
        Mr. KEATING. Pharmaceuticals. I mean----
        Ms. VAN DUYNE. Pharmaceuticals, you know, things to be able
    to keep people's homes warm that don't live on the main grid.
    Can you explain to me some of these logistics concerns are
    moving forward, and if you have, in the next 18 seconds, any
    kind of federal regulations that you think are impeding our
    progress?
        Mr. KEATING. Oh, my goodness. Off the top of my head, I
    can't give you an exact regulation, but I think the key point
    that I would like to make is all of those industries you
    mentioned and every single other one are overwhelmingly
    populated by small businesses. So it is very important for
    lawmakers to understand that, whether you are talking about
    trucking, pharmaceuticals, all the way down the line, every one
    of those is about small businesses. The numbers are there. I
    mean, I can provide more data if you want, or you can go to
    our----
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Time has expired.
        Mr. KEATING. Sorry.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Ms.
    Houlahan, is recognized for 5 minutes.
        Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        And thank you very much to all of you all for coming and
    joining us today.
        My questions are going to be focused on ESG or
    environmental, social, and governance ideas, which I think are
    something that has gained a lot of traction over the past 15 or
    so years and across the nation. And, especially within my
    Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, business incubators have been
    serving as an important part to help startups and individual
    entrepreneurs scale their businesses, and they provide a range
    of services, as we have talked about, from legal advice to
    venture capital funding.
        But studies have shown and the pandemic has borne out that
    companies that have a strong environmental and social
    governance aspect or criteria to them have outperformed
    companies that did not during this very critical time. And, in
    fact, this initiative was started on the heels of 2007 and
    2008's financial meltdown.
        And so, as the cofounder, along with Representative
    Phillips, of the Stakeholder Capitalism Caucus and as an
    entrepreneur myself who has built a lot of CSR ESG companies, I
    really acutely and personally understand the importance of ESG
    as a model for investors to evaluate companies, for employees
    to decide which ones to work for, for communities to embrace
    these kinds of companies, for all of the different stakeholders
    who are involved in these small business enterprises to be able
    to understand what a good company looks like.
        So, starting with Mr. Keating, if I could, could I ask you
    to speak to any efforts that the incubator is acting on to
    encourage this kind of model for small businesses? And, if it
    is, can you discuss why this model is important during the
    midst of a pandemic or, frankly, at any point in time? And if
    the incubator does not encourage ESG criteria, can you explain
    why not?
        Mr. KEATING. I am not an expert in this area at all. The
    only thing I will say generally, as an economist, that I think
    it is great that we have all sorts of different business models
    out there. And, ultimately, consumer sovereignty, consumers in
    the end decide what works and what doesn't in the marketplace,
    and we will see that with these types of companies and other
    more traditional or innovative business models.
        Ms. HOULAHAN. I think it is beyond the consumer. I think it
    is also investors. I think it is also employees. I think it is
    kind of the entire ecosystem, the entire stakeholder ecosystem
    that makes the determination. And, as I mentioned, this kind of
    a company has really--I hesitate to say flourished because I
    don't think many of us have flourished during this difficult
    time, but I think they have proved more resilient than any
    other kind of corporation or structure.
        So I would like to throw that open to anybody else on the
    panel. Ms. Diop, perhaps if you have any input in that, whether
    or not you are aware of these kinds of ideas and whether or not
    you are embracing of them.
        Ms. DIOP. Thank you so much for your question, Ms.
    Houlahan. Certainly, it is not my area of expertise, but I am
    from Los Angeles, California, and environmental measures are
    very important to us out there and me personally. So I
    definitely think that access to more information about these
    types of programs so that small business owners or aspiring
    business owners could implement them into their business model
    would certainly be helpful. It would certainly be something
    that could even increase the awareness of these types of
    programs so that more people could participate.
        Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you.
        Does anyone else on the panel have any input into this
    question before I move on?
        Mr. FOGATY. Yeah. This is Andrew. I would just like to say
    I agree with the points that have been made. Most of our
    entrepreneurs, especially the younger ones, are very sensitive
    to climate change and the challenges that they create. One of
    my client companies, Omni Ecosystems, was started by Molly
    Meyer. She has developed a low weight soil. This is a little
    bit out of my league, the science stuff, but it is a low weight
    soil so that now rooftop gardens or urban farms are much more
    viable options because they don't--it is lightweight soil, and
    it retains moisture. So, yeah, absolutely climate change and
    being aware of the ecological impact is very important among--
    --
        Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you, sir. And, as a point of
    clarification, although the E, obviously, in the ESG is for
    environmental, the S and the G are for social and governance as
    well, and they have everything as well to do with how a company
    is structured, whether or not all employees or some employees
    are included in things like equity decisions or whether the
    board is inclusive, those kinds of things, as well as making
    sure that we are thinking about the whole impact that a
    business has and that there aren't externalities that are
    passed on to other organizations.
        And, with that, I will yield back my time. I really
    appreciate you guys and the opportunity to speak to you.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back.
        Now we recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr.
    Garbarino, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. GARBARINO. Thank you, Madam Chair, and to the Ranking
    Member for hosting this hearing today, and thank you to the
    witnesses for being here.
        Mr. Fogaty, I have a question for you. You assist small
    businesses, business owners with business planning, market
    research, and financing. In the current economic turmoil of
    labor shortages, price spikes, supply chain disruptions, and
    inflation, what advice are you giving them?
        Mr. FOGATY. Well, it very much depends on what type of
    business that I am dealing with. Over the past 18 months or so,
    we have been very much focused on keeping--on having businesses
    survive, so things like EIDL and the Paycheck Protection
    Program and that type of thing. Startup funding is--and we are
    kind of repeating ourselves here, but startup funding is very
    much a challenge. I am sure the other guests on the panel would
    agree, and small business funding to grow, small loans below
    $50,000, are also very difficult to come by.
        So, as far as what I would--I would say that, for Congress,
    I would like to find some way, I would hope you would find some
    way of incentivizing banks to lend more to startups and in
    smaller amounts, and that is what I am really hoping. But,
    yeah, for the past 18 months, it has been a lot of work with
    government programs to make sure that the companies survive.
        Mr. GARBARINO. Okay. And then I imagine anybody dealing
    with getting companies to survive, a lot of businesses
    prepandemic did not have an online presence, and it was, I
    guess, for a lot of them to survive, they had to convert to at
    least having some sort of online presence.
        I am the Ranking Member on the Homeland Security
    Cybersecurity Committee as well, you know, and we have seen,
    especially in the past couple years, a lot of ransomware
    attacks, almost 50 percent of them, are targeted at small
    businesses in a small amount, but, you know, it is a small
    amount in the grand scheme of things but not to a small
    business, who has to pay a couple thousand dollars for a
    ransom.
        What are you--or any of the other witnesses on the panel
    today--what are you saying to clients or prospective clients or
    small business owners on how to deal with this issue because a
    lot of people don't understand cybersecurity? It is not at the
    top of their list when they are starting a business.
        Mr. FOGATY. The Illinois Small Business Development
    Centers, of which we are a part, we do host cybersecurity
    experts who have the--where they will come and speak to the
    small businesses. And, actually, the gallery incubator in
    Evanston where I am a volunteer mentor, they are--one of the
    founders is very savvy in the cybersecurity realm. So, yeah, I
    can't agree with you more. Cybersecurity is key. And certainly
    an online presence is absolutely vital to any small business.
        Mr. GARBARINO. And anybody else can jump in, but I would
    think most new people who start a business now realize they
    have to have an online business, but I guess some of the small
    businesses that have been around for a while, it is something
    they never had to do before. I don't know if Mr. Keating or Ms.
    DeVane or Ms. Diop want to join in, you know. What are you
    seeing with current small businesses, and how are they doing
    making this change?
        Ms. DeVANE. Sure. I would definitely add that you are a
    hundred percent on point. One of the things that we saw with
    our small businesses, many of our businesses are more mature in
    age and more traditional and really aren't savvy or were not
    savvy with social media and with technological changes. So, it
    was a real eye opener for them, and we really had to help them
    transition into the digital world. Some of that was by
    necessity because everything had to be Zoom, and nothing was in
    person, and everybody has phones.
        But the thing is that we really had to take the type to
    train them with those tools, branding, marketing your business
    in a world that is virtual, and social media was very
    important. And the other thing is through the CARES Act funding
    that we had, we ran about seven different webinars and
    workshops for businesses to help them with COVID, and one of
    those was on cybersecurity. We still provide access to that
    through all of our affiliates and online through the National
    Urban League's website, so folks can go in any time and look at
    that information.
        Mr. KEATING. If I could add, what is fascinating is some of
    the survey results that we have had in terms of the impact that
    this technology, social media, has had on starting up a
    business. You know, one of the results, we saw that 80 percent
    of people said that they were able to start up their business
    because of the affordable nature of online advertising. So it
    is not just--obviously, it is helping existing businesses, but
    it is also boosting startups, which is a very exciting aspect
    of this.
        Mr. GARBARINO. I appreciate that. And I believe I am out of
    time, so I yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
        Now we recognize the gentlelady from Florida, Ms. Salazar,
    for 5 minutes.
        Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you, Chairman Velazquez and Ranking
    Member Luetkemeyer, for holding this important hearing.
        This comes at a pivotal time for countless small business
    owners and their families nationwide. And I wanted to thank all
    the guests that have been here and exposing their testimony,
    specifically, Mr. Raymond Keating. You were mentioning how
    constructive pro-immigration policy agenda would be good for
    the economy, and I completely agree, so I wanted to ask you,
    what are the major changes to the immigration system that you
    think we should be implementing in this country directly to
    improve the small business community space?
        Mr. KEATING. Well, I think that, number one, it is
    important to understand that foreign-born individuals have a
    much higher rate of entrepreneurship than native born. And that
    shouldn't surprise us because, you know, it is pretty risky to
    move from one country to another.
        Having said that, I think some sort of entrepreneurial
    visa, right, is critical. Why aren't we offering this and
    attracting entrepreneurs from around the world to the United
    States? There is no downside. I can't figure out any kind of
    downside, so I think that is step one.
        And then, obviously, step two is just getting more--our
    immigration policy more in tune with labor needs, you know.
    Right now, we are coming out of the pandemic, but not too far
    down the road, we are going to have additional problems in
    terms of working age population and so on, and at the other
    lower end of skills and the upper end of skills. So I think
    immigration can help us with that issue in a big way, but the
    entrepreneurship aspect is critical.
        Ms. SALAZAR. And, when you are talking about labor, you are
    talking about basically merit-based visas. What would be the
    ideal scenario, according to you?
        Mr. KEATING. Yeah. Well, I think that merit-based, the idea
    that this is what I want to do, I can do--what I can contribute
    to the United States as--you know, whether it is high-tech
    visas or, again, at the lower end of the skill level. So I
    think it is--we just have to be more cognizant of the realities
    in our economy. I mean, listen. I am an economist, so I like
    to--I would love our immigration policy to be focused more on
    economics than some of the politics that we hear being tossed
    about. And I think, when you look at the economics of
    immigration, listen. Every poll of economists always--they
    always come out lopsided that immigration is a net economic
    plus for our country. And it can be in all sorts of ways,
    whether it is lower skilled workers, as I said, high skilled or
    entrepreneurs.
        Ms. SALAZAR. So why do you think that we have not been able
    to pay attention to what the marketplace is saying? You say
    that you are an economist. How do you interpret?
        Mr. KEATING. Well, I think--again--yeah. I think the--I
    think it is politics overruling economics, unfortunately. I
    think--listen. We also--we have history. We are an
    entrepreneurial nation. We are a pro-immigration nation. We are
    a nation of immigrants; it is true. But we have also had our
    battles along the way where we have not been, at various times,
    you know, exactly friendly towards immigrants. So I think, to
    the extent that we can talk about how immigrant workers, for
    example, new immigrants coming to this country are willing to
    work, they are complementary to the people that are already
    here.
        So, for the most part, overwhelmingly--I mean, it is not
    even close--they are not taking jobs from somebody else. They
    are adding to the economy. And that is the part, I think, that
    we economists fall down on, right. We have to tell people that
    additional producers, additional consumers, and additional
    entrepreneurs all lead to economic growth. It is not a case
    that the pie is only so big, and we are going to divvy it up.
    So I think it is talking more about growth and how immigration
    can help.
        Ms. SALAZAR. And, finally, in the last minute that I have,
    I wanted to go back to the line that you said, that some people
    believe that new immigrants or newcomers are going to be taking
    jobs away from Americans. Why isn't that true?
        Mr. KEATING. Because, as I said, they--what you see in the
    research and, you know, in terms of economics straightforward
    is that they come in and largely are doing work that other
    people aren't doing. Either they don't want to do it, or we
    don't have enough people doing it. So, again, in filling those
    needs, those vacancies, that is how we say they are
    complementary workers. So, therefore, they are helping other
    people to be more productive. So it is a good news thing for
    everybody. But sometimes you would never understand--well,
    oftentimes, you don't understand that, listening to the
    politics of it.
        So, again, I think if we can get back to understanding the
    role that immigrants have in the workforce and their role in
    entrepreneurship, I think we can make some great headway in
    getting to a more constructive immigration policy.
        Ms. SALAZAR. So I like this complementary workers.
        Mr. KEATING. Yes. That is what they do, yeah.
        Ms. SALAZAR. Very good. Well, sir, thank you for explaining
    that to us. So you are telling me that it is up to us, the
    public servants, the people that have been elected, the
    politicians, to learn and to explain to the rest of the
    American population that the immigrants are coming to give, not
    to take away?
        Mr. KEATING. Absolutely. And, to the extent that we have
    political leaders that can do that, that is a huge plus to talk
    about, again, being a welcoming society and talking about how
    this is pro-growth, and it is good for everybody.
        Ms. SALAZAR. Thank you.
        I yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back.
        Thank you so very much to all the witnesses.
        Mr. Keating, I didn't have time to ask you a question, but
    I really appreciate your answers to Ms. Salazar regarding
    immigration. I think this is a part of a discussion that needs
    to happen among Members of Congress and that we approach this
    issue with the honesty that it requires.
        With that, I want to thank all of the witnesses for being
    here today. Your testimony is proof that, even in the darkest
    of times, the spirit of America's entrepreneurs shines bright.
    The post-pandemic economy presents many opportunities and
    challenges for small business owners. As the voice of small
    businesses in Washington, we must work as a committee to
    support these new business owners and help their firms
    flourish. These new businesses will be critical as we work
    towards full economic recovery and future growth. I look
    forward to working with Committee Members to ensure that small
    businesses have the resources they need to navigate this
    changing economy.
        I ask unanimous consent that the article and report by the
    Kauffman Foundation entitled ``America's New Business Plan'' is
    submitted for the record.
        With that, I will ask unanimous consent that Members have 5
    legislative days to submit statements and supporting materials
    for the record.
        Without objection, so ordered.
        If there is no further business to come before the
    committee, we are adjourned. Thank you.
        [Whereupon, at 12:06 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]

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