[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                H.R. 40: EXPLORING THE PATH TO REPARATIVE 
                           JUSTICE IN AMERICA

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

               SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE CONSTITUTION, CIVIL 
                       RIGHTS, AND CIVIL LIBERTIES

                                 OF THE

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

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                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2021

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                            Serial No. 117-4

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         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
         
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                Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
                
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                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                    JERROLD NADLER, New York, Chair
                MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania, Vice-Chair

ZOE LOFGREN, California              JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Ranking Member
SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas            STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
STEVE COHEN, Tennessee               LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas
HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,      DARRELL ISSA, California
    Georgia                          KEN BUCK, Colorado
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida          MATT GAETZ, Florida
KAREN BASS, California               MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana
HAKEEM S. JEFFRIES, New York         ANDY BIGGS, Arizona
DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island     TOM McCLINTOCK, California
ERIC SWALWELL, California            W. GREG STEUBE, Florida
TED LIEU, California                 TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin
JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland               THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky
PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington          CHIP ROY, Texas
VAL BUTLER DEMINGS, Florida          DAN BISHOP, North Carolina
J. LUIS CORREA, California           MICHELLE FISCHBACH, Minnesota
MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania       VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas              SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
JOE NEGUSE, Colorado                 CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon
LUCY McBATH, Georgia                 BURGESS OWENS, Utah
GREG STANTON, Arizona
VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
MONDAIRE JONES, New York
DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
CORI BUSH, Missouri

       PERRY APELBAUM, Majority Staff Director and Chief Counsel
              CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Minority Staff Director 
                                 ------                                

            SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE CONSTITUTION, CIVIL RIGHTS,
                          AND CIVIL LIBERTIES

                     STEVE COHEN, Tennessee, Chair
                DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina, Vice-Chair

JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland               MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana, Ranking 
HENRY C.``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,           Member
    Georgia                          TOM McCLINTOCK, California
SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas              CHIP ROY, Texas
CORI BUSH, Missouri                  MICHELLE FISCHBACH, Minnesota
SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas            BURGESS OWENS, Utah

                       JAMES PARK, Chief Counsel
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

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                           February 17, 2021

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Steve Cohen, Chair of the Subcommittee on the 
  Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties from the State 
  of Tennessee...................................................     1
The Honorable Burgess Owens, a Member of the Subcommittee on the 
  Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties from the State 
  of Utah........................................................     5
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Chair of the Committee on the 
  Judiciary from the State of New York...........................     7
The Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member of the Subcommittee on 
  the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties from the 
  State of Texas.................................................     9

                               WITNESSES

Shirley N. Weber, Secretary, Office of the California Secretary 
  of State
  Oral Testimony.................................................    37
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    40
E. Tendayi Achiume, Professor of Law, UCLA School of Law and UN 
  Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial 
  Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance
  Oral Testimony.................................................    46
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    49
Kathy Masaoka, Co-Chair, Nikkei for Civil Rights and Redress
  Oral Testimony.................................................    83
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    85
Herschel Walker, Former Professional Athlete
  Oral Testimony.................................................    90
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    93
Laurence Elder, Attorney, Author, and Radio Host
  Oral Testimony.................................................    95
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    98
Kamm Howard, National Male Co-Chair, National Coalition of Blacks 
  for Reparations in America
  Oral Testimony.................................................   105
  Prepared Testimony.............................................   107
Dreisen Heath, Assistant Researcher/Advocate, US Program, Human 
  Rights Watch
  Oral Testimony.................................................   112
  Prepared Testimony.............................................   114
Hilary O. Shelton, Director, NAACP Washington Bureau
  Oral Testimony.................................................   132

          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

Items submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member of 
  the Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil 
  Liberties from the State of Texas for the record
  An article entitled ``Harvard Study: Reparations for slavery 
    could have reduced COVID-19 infections and deaths in U.S.,'' 
    Harvard Medical School.......................................    12
  A letter from the CARICOM Reparations Commission...............    20
  A letter to Speaker Pelosi, Minority Leader McCarthy, Chair 
    Nadler, and Ranking Member Jordan............................    24
  Pictures of lynchings..........................................    34
  A letter from The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human 
    Rights.......................................................   148
  A letter from Vanita Gupta, President & CEO, The Leadership 
    Conference on Civil and Human Rights.........................   152

                                APPENDIX

Items submitted by the Honorable Steve Cohen, Chair of the 
  Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil 
  Liberties from the State of Tennessee for the record
  A letter from Dominique Day, Chair-Rapporteur, UN Working Group 
    of Experts on People of African Descent......................   178
  An article entitled, ``A Call For Reparations: How America 
    Might Narrow The Racial Wealth Gap,'' NPR....................   181
  An article entitled ``After Reparations Study Suggests $151 
    Million for Each African American, Experts Say Money Alone 
    Isn't Enough,'' Newsweek.....................................   189
  An article entitled, ``Author Releases Illustrated Guide to 
    African-American History With 300+ Pages,'' BlackNews.com....   203
  Statement from Christopher Miller, Head of Global Advocacy, Ben 
    & Jerry's Homemade, Inc......................................   205
  An article entitled, ``After decades of failure to close the 
    wealth gap, Black Americans need reparations,'' The Kansas 
    City Star....................................................   207
  An article entitled, ``Black reparations and the racial wealth 
    gap,'' Brookings.............................................   211
  Statement from William Darity Jr., Samuel DuBois Cook Professor 
    of Public Policy.............................................   216
  A memorandum entitled, ``National Security Study Memorandum 
    200''........................................................   218
  A letter to President Calvin Coolidge and editorial written by 
    Marcus Garvey, Negro World...................................   224
  A transcript of speeches given at the National Coalition of 
    Blacks for Reparations in America (NCOBRA) 30th Annual 
    Convention...................................................   232
  Statement from The Reparationist Collective....................   260
  A report entitled, ``Why we need reparations for Black 
    Americans,'' Brookings.......................................   262
  Statement from Ms. Rosiland Davis..............................   268
  A letter from Margaret Huang, President and CEO, Southern 
    Poverty Law Center (SPLC) Action Fund........................   269
  An article entitled, ``Tackling The Racial Wealth Gap: William 
    Darity's Plan For Reparations,'' wbur........................   271
  Statement from Nkechi Taifa, President and CEO, The Taifa Group 
    LLC..........................................................   275
  Statement from The Reparationist Collective....................   292
  Statement from Wade Henderson, President & CEO, The Leadership 
    Conference on Civil and Human Rights.........................   293
  An article entitled, ``We Need To Discuss The Racial Wealth Gap 
    and Reparations,'' Forbes....................................   301
  A bill analysis of California Assembly Bill 3121...............   307
  An article entitled, ``Campaign Unveils Hidden History of 
    Slavery in California,'' Next City...........................   312
  Text of California Assembly Bill 3121..........................   315
  A bill analysis of California Assembly Bill 3121, Senator 
    Hannah-Beth Jackson, Chair, Senate Judiciary Committee, 
    California State Senate......................................   321
  An article entitled, ``California Once Tried to Ban Black 
    People,'' History............................................   346
  An article entitled, ``Pacific Bound: California's 1852 
    Fugitive Slave Law,'' BlackPast..............................   349
  An article entitled, ``What HR40 Gets Wrong and Why,'' Actify 
    Press........................................................   356
  An article entitled, ``A Compelling Argument for `True' 
    Reparations for the American Slave Nation and The Descendants 
    of American Slaves,'' Gerald A. Higginbotham.................   365
  Statement from Jeffery Robinson, Deputy Legal Director, ACLU...   370
  A study entitled, ``Harvard Study: Reparations for slavery 
    could have reduced COVID-19 infections and deaths in US,'' 
    Harvard Medical School.......................................   373
  Statement from Hashim Ali Jabar OdoKhan-El.....................   379
  Statement from Rev. Aundreia Alexander, Associate General 
    Secretary for Action and Advocacy for Justice and Peace, 
    National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA........   381
Statement submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member 
  of the Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and 
  Civil Liberties from the State of Texas........................   382

 
      H.R. 40: EXPLORING THE PATH TO REPARATIVE JUSTICE IN AMERICA

                              ----------                              


                           February 17, 2021

                        House of Representatives

  Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties

                       Committee on the Judiciary

                             Washington, DC

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:04 a.m. via 
Webex, Hon. Steve Cohen [chair of the subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Cohen, Nadler, Raskin, Ross, 
Johnson of Georgia, Garcia, Bush, Jackson Lee, Johnson of 
Louisiana, McClintock, Fischbach, and Owens.
    Staff Present: David Greengrass, Senior Counsel; John Doty, 
Senior Advisor; Madeline Strasser, Chief Clerk; Moh Sharma, 
Member Services and Outreach Advisor; Jordan Dashow, 
Professional Staff Member; John Williams, Parliamentarian; 
James Park, Chief Counsel, Constitution, Civil Rights, and 
Civil Liberties; Keenan Keller, Senior Counsel; Will Emmons, 
Professional Staff Member, Constitution, Civil Rights, and 
Civil Liberties; Matt Morgan, Counsel, Constitution, Civil 
Rights, and Civil Liberties; James Lesinski, Minority Counsel; 
Sarah Trentman, Minority Senior Professional Staff Member; and 
Kiley Bidelman, Minority Clerk.
    Mr. Cohen. Good morning, everybody. This is ``H.R. 40: 
Exploring the Path to Reparative Justice.'' I hereby call the 
meeting to order. I am Congressman Cohen. The Committee on the 
Judiciary, Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and 
Civil Liberties will come to order.
    Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare 
recesses of the Subcommittee at any time.
    I welcome everyone to today's meeting on H.R. 40. Before we 
begin, I remind Members that we have established an email list 
and distribution list dedicated to circulating exhibits, 
motions, or other written materials that Members might want to 
offer as part of our hearings today. If you would like to 
submit materials, please send them to 
[email protected], and we will have them distributed 
to Members and staff as quickly as possible.
    I will now recognize myself for an opening statement.
    The enslavement of people of African-American descent in 
America was started before we were a country, in 1619, and it 
has gone on through the end of the Civil War. This has been a 
crime against humanity, and the effects it has had on our 
society, and on African Americans in general, continue to cause 
difficulties for people in America, everything from racial 
inequality, economic opportunities which have been manifest, 
and disparate health outcomes which have been so sad and come 
to much light recently but gone on for centuries, and to the 
plague of unjustified police violence against Black Americans.
    Slavery was our Nation's original sin. Our Constitution 
protected it, embodying various compromises, and it gave 
disproportionate power to slave States. For example, the three-
fifths clause, which we always hear about, counted a slave as 
three-fifths of a person for population counts, which in turn 
gave disproportionate representation to slave States in the 
House of Representatives and, accordingly, in the electoral 
college, which was created as a way to elect the President. 
That gave slave States another avenue to exercise 
disproportionate influence over national affairs.
    In essence, slaves counted for three-fifths towards the 
representation in Congress and the electoral college, but it 
gave slaves nothing. It gave their masters something, and it 
gave them more power. So, Congress wasn't made up of 
representation of people who had rights and who were free 
people. It was representative in the South of people who 
didn't, and then it was a compromise that stained our 
Constitution.
    It is only fitting then that in the midst of a continued 
reckoning over police treatment of Black people and a pandemic 
that has disproportionately impacted Black Americans, that we 
should hold this hearing today on H.R. 40, the Commission to 
Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans 
Act.
    Our colleague, Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, who is a 
member of the subcommittee, is the current lead sponsor of this 
legislation. I am proud to be and have been an original 
cosponsor ever since I came to Congress in 2007. Chair Nadler 
is with us, who is also a longtime cosponsor of the bill.
    The greatest credit for H.R. 40 belongs really to two 
individuals. First and foremost, our former colleague and the 
former chair of the House Judiciary Committee, my friend, my 
mentor, and my political father when I came to Congress, the 
late John Conyers, Jr. He first introduced this legislation 
over 30 years ago and reintroduced it every Congress thereafter 
until his retirement. He named it H.R. 40 for the promise that 
was given slaves after the Civil War for having 40 acres and a 
mule, and that is where H.R. 40 came from. John Conyers was a 
great man and a great leader and is properly remembered here 
today.
    The second individual most responsible for H.R. 40 is, 
unfortunately, one of the most despised characters in American 
history, John Wilkes Booth. Why John Wilkes Booth? Because when 
he assassinated Abraham Lincoln that led to Andrew Johnson 
becoming President of the United States, and President Johnson 
effectively rescinded the promise made by General William 
Tecumseh Sherman to former slaves that they would each be 
guaranteed that 40 acres of land and that mule, that each 
person, when they become free, as free persons, the promise 
that is colloquially referred to as 40 acres and a mule. That 
ended with the assassination of President Lincoln, and it 
really started off serious problems in our country and 
shortchanged the newly freed Americans.
    H.R. 40 would create a commission to study the history of 
slavery in America, the role of the Federal and State 
governments in supporting slavery and racial discrimination, 
other forms of discrimination against the descendants of 
slaves, and the lingering effects of slavery on African 
Americans. The commission would also make recommendations as to 
appropriate ways to educate the American public about its 
findings and appropriate remedies in light of those findings.
    I want to digress for a minute and mention a hearing we 
had, it might have been the first full hearing we had on H.R. 
40, back in about 2007 or 2008. One of our witnesses was 
Charles Ogletree, one of the giants in the courtroom and within 
the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. He said at that time H.R. 40 was 
a study of reparations. It may not be the 2lst century 
equivalent of 40 acres and a mule, and the 21st century 
equivalent, he said, was an SUV and a condo. He said it might 
be gigantic programs to help people, particularly African 
Americans, but others who have been disproportionately affected 
in healthcare and economic opportunity, et cetera.
    An honest reckoning with the Federal Government's role in 
protecting the institution of slavery has been the leading 
priority of my congressional career. Back in 2007, I introduced 
H. Res. 194--that was my first year in Congress--an apology by 
the House of Representatives for its role in perpetuating both 
slavery and its noxious offspring, Jim Crow. The House 
ultimately passed that resolution that year with the help of 
Chair, Mr. Conyers, who put it on the suspension calendar, and 
we passed it in 2008 by a voice vote.
    As I noted in my resolution, it was not just slavery itself 
that was wrong but also the visceral racism against persons of 
African descent upon which American slavery depended, a racism 
long that had become entrenched in the Nation's social fabric, 
an evil that we must continue to confront today.
    My resolution emphasized that while slavery was our 
Nation's original sin, the underlying sin of anti-Black racism 
did not end with the Civil War and the 13th Amendment, and 
Congress' inaction and acquiescence in the face of such racism 
was a big reason why.
    The Senate passed a resolution similar to ours but not 
quite the same in the following Congress. We, unfortunately, 
didn't pass them at the same time and have a joint resolution, 
but the Senate passed an apology as well, and that was a good 
Act by the Senate. It is unfortunate we weren't able to put 
them together.
    I watched a couple of movies in the last couple of days, 
Chadwick Boseman's movies about Jackie Robinson and one about 
Thurgood Marshall, and in those movies I was so affected by 
what you saw. I know they are movies, but they reflected life. 
The racism that Jackie Robinson faced getting into baseball, 
that was 1947 when he was with Montreal and then the Dodgers, 
racism from the coaches, from the other players, and from the 
fans, it was just disgusting.
    Thurgood Marshall faced the same thing up in Connecticut 
when he and Mr. Friedman were representing a criminal 
defendant. Mr. Friedman faced it too. Some of the racists that 
took actions against African Americans took it out against the 
Jewish man, too, the attorney, calling him a kike and beating 
him up.
    There has been a whole lot of horror in our Nation's past 
and a lot of it has been racism that still we suffer from.
    Racism became further entrenched after slavery's end as 
reflected in the societal attitudes and Jim Crow laws, a system 
of racial segregation laws intended to separate unequal 
societies for Whites and African Americans that was a force 
through both official means, which I, unfortunately, saw as a 
young child, colored water fountains, colored restrooms, 
colored sections at the football stadium, Mr. Owens.
    When I went to the football stadium here in Memphis, the 
place for African Americans to sit for the big SEC football 
games was in the end zone, in the lower corner, in the lower 
ten rows. The only thing they could have done to make the seats 
worse was to put a hot dog stand in front to interfere with the 
vision. It was just unbelievable what they did, the unequal 
opportunities.
    There was also lynchings, even worse, and they were 
advertised, and people came to watch the lynchings and get body 
parts and to cheer. It was disgusting. This was around the turn 
of the century and through the 1900s. There was violence, 
intimidation, and disenfranchising, mostly in the South but 
other places as well.
    It was not until a hundred years after the end of slavery 
that Congress, under pressure from the civil rights movement, 
Thurgood Marshall's work, Dr. King's work, Bayard Rustin, and 
others, finally carried out its duty to end Jim Crow by passing 
the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 
and other core civil rights statutes that are fulfilling the 
Constitution's guarantee of equal citizenship for all.
    While those great civil rights leaders were greatly 
responsible for the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act, and 
certainly our late colleague John Lewis was too, something that 
sometimes is forgotten in those facts is that the assassination 
of John Kennedy, a second assassination of an American 
President--although we had others in between, President 
McKinley--but President Kennedy's assassination led to an 
outpouring of support for these acts that Lyndon Johnson was 
able to help bring into legislation. He nurtured them and 
brought them forth. While the assassination of Abraham Lincoln 
hurt the effort at having the opportunity, the assassination of 
John Kennedy, unfortunately, helped it.
    Today our Nation continues to struggle with the legacy of 
the anti-Black racism that undergirded slavery and Jim Crow. We 
see this in statistics that paint a bleak future.
    For instance, according to the Census Bureau, 18.8 percent 
of African Americans lived in poverty in 2019, compared to 7.3 
percent of non-Hispanic Whites who lived in poverty. The 
Washington Post reported last year that in 2016, the net worth 
of African-American households was $13,024, which was less than 
10 percent--less than 10 percent--of the $149,000 net worth of 
non-Hispanic White households.
    Limited access to wealth-building resources and 
opportunities have led to this stark disparity. For instance, 
African Americans continue to face discrimination in the 
workplace. They also have limited access to educational 
opportunities, according to the National Education Association. 
The high school graduation rate for African Americans was 67 
percent compared to the nationwide
average of 81 percent. They also continue to face racial 
segregation in housing and discrimination in the availability 
of quality healthcare services and most other facts of life.
    The COVID-19 pandemic has only exacerbated the effect of 
the structural racial disparities--workers on the front lines 
at low-paying jobs often not covered by unions in the South, 
collective bargaining and lower wages and contact with people 
on the front lines where COVID-19 has spread.
    Enacting H.R. 40 would be an important step in finding 
effective long-term solutions to these problems, ones that can 
trace their origins to our Nation's shameful history of slavery 
and anti-Black racism.
    Professor Ogletree of Harvard noted, as I mentioned 
earlier, about the 40 acres and a mule, but he also put a focus 
on the poorest of the poor, including efforts to address 
comprehensively the problems of those who have not 
substantially benefited from integration or affirmative action. 
I hope our hearing today can lead to a fruitful conversation 
with the hope of achieving that goal.
    I thank our witnesses for being here today and look forward 
to their testimony.
    At this point in our hearing we would normally recognize 
the Ranking Member. The Ranking Member is Mr. Johnson, but 
today Mr. Burgess Owens, a new member from the State of Utah, I 
believe will serve as Ranking Member, and I will recognize Mr. 
Owens for his opening statement.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    On June 19, 2019, I was honored to testify before this 
Committee as a witness for the hearing on ``H.R. 40 and the 
Path to Restorative Justice.'' Little did I know that a little 
less than 2 years later I would, once again, participate in 
this hearing of this subcommittee, this time as a member.
    I want to thank Ranking Member Johnson for the honor of 
acting as Ranking Member for this hearing. I want to again 
thank Chair Cohen, my fellow Committee Members, and invited 
guests for this opportunity to share my story with you today.
    Before I share my story, let me emphasize three points to 
help guide us through our discussion.
    First, let me reiterate that slavery was and still is evil, 
whether it be the 83-year history of our Nation or the prior 
2,000-year history or the presence around the world today. 
Incompatible with American ideals, we purged the stain from our 
Nation's soul at the cost of 600,000 American lives.
    I am a product of that evil practice. My great-great-
grandfather, Silas, arrived here in the belly of a slave ship, 
sold to the Burgess Plantation. He escaped through the 
Underground Railroad and died a successful entrepreneur, built 
the first Black church, elementary, purchased 102 acres of 
farmland that he paid off in 2 years.
    Second, reparations is not the way to right our country's 
wrong. What I propose later will be more lasting.
    Third, it is impractical and a nonstarter for the United 
States Government to pay reparations. It is also unfair and 
heartless to give Black Americans the hope that this is a 
reality.
    The reality is that Black-American history is not one of a 
hapless, hopeless race oppressed by a more powerful White race. 
Instead a history of millions of middle- and wealthy-class 
Black Americans throughout the early 20th century achieving 
their American Dream.
    We are discussing this morning the theory of reparation. It 
is nothing new. It has been tried over the last hundred years, 
resulting in the misery and death of over a hundred million 
men, women, and children. It is called the redistribution of 
wealth or socialism.
    Instead of that theory, I would like to share the reality 
of a race whose history of success in America has been stolen 
and what we can do to repair that damage.
    I grew up in the Deep South, Tallahassee, Florida, in the 
1950s and 1960s, the days of KKK, Jim Crow, and segregation. It 
was my community that was our Nation's most competitive 
community. We believed and taught the love of God, country, 
family, respect for women, authority. We believed in commanding 
respect through meritocracy, not just in sports and 
entertainment but in every discipline, math, science, 
exploration, innovation, farming, and entrepreneurship.
    We had a reputation as a race for our courage and 
commitment. We led our country in the growth of the middle 
class during that period. Men matriculated from college. Men 
committed to marriage, over 70 percent. The percentage of 
entrepreneurs was over 40 percent.
    Before we embraced the theory that real success was moving 
out of our community and integrating into White neighborhoods, 
businesses, and schools, our community turned within. I 
remember as a young man Perkins service stations, Speed's 
Grocery Store, Baker's Pharmacy, FAMU Hospital with only Black 
doctors and nurses, when 50 to 60 percent of Black Americans in 
the 1960s nationwide lived the middle-class lifestyle.
    We were taught respect for our flag and raised by a 
generation of men who fought for it. They taught us that you 
can't demand or beg for respect, you can only command respect 
through merito-cracy.
    We were taught pride in our history, both American and 
Black history. We were taught about Crispus Attucks, America's 
first freedom martyr in the Revolutionary War, the Tuskegee 
Airmen, and over a hundred thousand Black men, including my 
father, who fought against the godless ideologies of Marxism, 
socialism, and communism. We were taught to recognize and 
appreciate progress.
    I entered the NFL in 1973, at a time there were no Black 
quarterbacks, Black centers, or Black middle linebackers. They 
were ``White thinking men'' positions. Forty years later, our 
Nation has elected a Black American as President and a Black 
female as Vice President. It is called progress.
    Once we lose our history, we lose pride in our past, 
appreciation for our present, and the vision for our future. If 
we are sincere about repaying Black Americans for our loss, 
let's give us back our history. That includes the history of 
we, the people, whose Judeo-Christian values have granted every 
generation the opportunity to look at each other better from 
the inside out, not outside in.
    In doing so, you will ensure pride within our race. As we 
accept our lineage as victors, this same history will command 
the respect from our fellow Americans, an example of how to 
overcome the most overwhelming odds.
    The most important thing is that we realize the failure 
that is happening today is the failure not of the American 
system, not of free markets, not of the faith and the neighbor 
and the family system. It is the failure of policies. We have 
75 percent of Black boys in the State of California in 2017, 
they cannot pass standard reading and writing tests. We have 
three schools in Baltimore that have zero--Black schools in 
Baltimore have zero proficiency in math. Ten years ago we had 
92 percent of the Black teen males in Chicago unemployed.
    These are policies, policies we can change, but we first 
need to recognize and understand the pride of my race, the 
pride of those who came before us, and that they cannot be 
forgotten or disappear because they worked too hard to command 
the respect of our fellow Americans.
    I feel if we do that, we change our policies so that the 
American, the Black-American youth and generations can take 
advantage of the same things that all other Americans can do 
so, then we will take again our place as being one of the most 
impressive races in our Nation.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Owens. Appreciate your 
opening statement. I hope you see my lapel pin here, 
recognition for Miami. Love of the Canes.
    Mr. Owens. There you go.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you.
    I would now like to recognize Chair of our Full Committee, 
Mr. Nadler, for his opening statement.
    Chair Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Today's hearing on ``H.R. 40: Exploring the Path to 
Reparative Justice'' gives us the opportunity to reflect on the 
shameful legacy of slavery and Jim Crow in this country and to 
examine how we can best move forward as a Nation.
    For nearly three decades the Former Chair of the House 
Judiciary Committee, John Conyers of Michigan, introduced H.R. 
40, which would establish a commission to study proposals for 
slavery reparations. Our colleague, the gentlewoman from Texas, 
Ms. Jackson Lee, has taken up sponsorship of this legislation, 
and I am pleased to be an original cosponsor.
    H.R. 40 is intended to begin a national conversation about 
how to confront the brutal mistreatment of African Americans 
during chattel slavery, Jim Crow segregation, and the enduring 
structural racism that remains endemic to our society today.
    Even long after slavery was abolished, the anti-Black 
racism that undergirded it reflected and defined part of our 
Nation's attitudes, shaping its policies and institutions.
    Today we still live with racial disparities in access to 
education, healthcare, housing, insurance, employment, and 
other social goods that are directly attributable to the 
damaging legacy of slavery and government-sponsored racial 
discrimination. These disparities in terms of disproportionate 
burdens on African Americans have only been exacerbated by the 
COVID-19 pandemic.
    It is important to recognize that H.R. 40 makes no 
conclusion about how to properly atone for and make recompense 
for the legacy of slavery and its lingering consequences. It 
does not mandate financial payments of any kind, and it does 
not prejudge the outcome of the commission's work.
    Instead, it sets forth a process by which a diverse group 
of experts and stakeholders can study the complex issues 
involved and make recommendations. In fact, most serious 
reparations models that have been proposed to date have focused 
on reparative community-based programs of employment, 
healthcare, housing, and educational initiatives, righting 
wrongs that cannot be fixed with checks alone.
    This moment of national reckoning comes at a time when our 
Nation must find constructive ways to confront the rising tide 
of racial and ethnic division. On January 6, we saw the ugly 
confluence of such division, as White nationalist groups 
appeared to be among those playing a central role in the 
violent assault on the United States Capitol. Last summer we 
saw an outpouring of protests stemming from the killings of 
unarmed Black people by police.
    White nationalism and police-community conflict are just 
part of the long legacy of anti-Black racism that has shaped 
our Nation's views, institutions, and societal attitudes. That 
racism and division hold back our country's longstanding 
efforts to carry out what the Preamble to our Constitution says 
it is designed to do: to form a more perfect Union.
    Reparations in the context of H.R. 40 are ultimately about 
respect and reconciliation in the hope that one day all 
Americans can work together toward a more just future. I hope 
that the commission established by H.R. 40 can help us better 
comprehend our own history and bring us closer to racial 
understanding and advancement.
    Today's hearing gives the Subcommittee an important 
opportunity to hear from witnesses directly involved in shaping 
the discourse on healing our society and creating a path to 
reparative justice. I am pleased that we have such a 
distinguished panel of witnesses whose testimony will assist us 
greatly in understanding the scope of our inquiry.
    A discussion of reparations is a journey in which the road 
traveled is almost more important than the exact destination. I 
am pleased that the Subcommittee is beginning this process 
today, and I look forward to hearing from our witnesses.
    With that, I yield back the balance of my time.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Mr. Nadler.
    Mr. Owens, do you need time for a Ranking Member statement 
or are we going to proceed on to Ms. Jackson Lee?
    Mr. Owens. Let's go ahead and proceed on to Ms. Jackson 
Lee. We will proceed.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir.
    One of the Members of our Committee and the sponsor of this 
resolution is Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee from Houston, 
Texas. She was largely responsible for the formation of the 
panelists on this dais as well as the driving force behind this 
resolution today, taking the leadership that John Conyers left 
to be picked up, just as she took the leadership of Barbara 
Jordan. She has picked up many great tasks.
    Ms. Jackson Lee will be recognized now for an opening 
statement, and at some point later on she will take my spot as 
the chair of this Committee for the time that I have to be 
vacant.
    Ms. Jackson Lee, you are recognized for an opening 
statement.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Chair, thank you so very much. Thank 
you for your great leadership and ongoing support and your 
history of righting the wrongs of racial injustice in this 
Nation.
    Thank you very much, Mr. Nadler, for your consistent 
support of this legislation, beginning with our beloved late 
colleague, John Conyers.
    To my colleagues on the committee, on the Constitution 
Subcommittee, I am appreciative of your graciousness as well in 
joining us in this hearing.
    Thank you very much to our Ranking Member, both Mr. Johnson 
and the gentleman from Colorado, I believe. Thank him very much 
for his statement today.
    This is what this hearing is about, to be able to speak to 
the Nation and for the Nation to continue its overwhelming 
support that it has given to H.R. 40. That has been one of the 
comforting aspects of continuing to carry this legislation, how 
to speak in support of H.R. 40 and the legislation that I 
introduce that establishes a Commission to Study and Develop 
Reparation Proposals for African Americans. It is an active 
commission. It is a study, but it is also to develop reparation 
proposals.
    Now, we come from a community, a race of people that have 
been known as overcomers. We shall overcome, and we have 
overcome. Mr. Owens has eloquently spoken of the overcomers. We 
are successful. We believe in determination. We believe in 
overcoming the many bad balls that we have been thrown. We have 
caught them, and we have kept on going.
    That is not the point of H.R. 40, the Commission to Study 
and Develop Reparation Proposals for African Americans. For 
hidden in the corners of this Nation are those of African-
American heritage, the descendants of enslaved Africans, who 
have felt the sting of disparities. They continue to feel that 
sting.
    Now more than ever the facts and circumstances facing our 
Nation demonstrate the importance of H.R. 40 and the necessity 
of placing our Nation on the path to reparative justice.
    That is what H.R. 40 is about. This commission will probe 
into the facts of the longstanding impact of disparities that 
slavery brought about in this country. We still experience them 
today.
    When this Committee last met to discuss this legislation, 
we required three overflow rooms to contain the scholarship and 
the passion displayed in support of this bill. I am very 
pleased to say that we have had over 170 cosponsors, close to 
that now, and those Members of Congress, I want to thank them 
personally, because there are a wide perspective and spectrum 
of political views, from progressives to moderates to 
conservatives, coming from all regions of the United States, 
all racial backgrounds. That is America. That is what repair is 
all about, reparative justice.
    Since that time, we have seen a pandemic sweep the country, 
taking more than 500,000 souls in its wake and devastating the 
African-American community. According to the latest estimate 
from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, Black people get 
COVID-19 at a rate nearly one and a half times higher than that 
of White people. They are hospitalized at a rate nearly four 
times higher than them and are three times as likely to die 
from the disease. We have seen it in our cities and our rural 
communities across America.
    Interestingly enough, a recent peer-reviewed study from 
Harvard Medical School suggests that reparations for African 
Americans could have cut COVID-19 transmission and infection 
rates both among Blacks and the population at large. Their 
analysis, based on Louisiana data, determined that if 
reparation proposals had been implemented before the COVID-19 
pandemic, narrowing the wealth gap, COVID-19 transmission rates 
in the States' overall population could have been reduced by 
anywhere from 31 to 68 percent.
    Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent to submit into the 
record the Harvard article.
    Mr. Cohen. Without objection, it shall be entered.
    [The information follows:]
     

                MS. JACKSON LEE FOR THE OFFICIAL RECORD

=======================================================================

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    Ms. Jackson Lee. Since our last hearing, we have also seen 
hundreds of thousands peacefully take to the streets in support 
of Black lives and accountability for law enforcement. Many of 
these protestors carried signs in support of H.R. 40 and made 
the important link between policing reform and the movement for 
reparative justice.
    Tragically, we have also witnessed insurrectionists attack 
this institution, brandishing symbols of division and 
intolerance that echo back to the darkest periods of our 
Nation's history. Clearly, we require reckoning to restore 
national balance and unity.
    The government sanctioned slavery. That is what we need, a 
reckoning, a healing, reparative justice. We need to bring our 
Nation together. This commission is really, it is no figment of 
your imagination. It is a commission that will be appointed by 
the Majority Leader of the United States Senate, the Speaker of 
the House, the President of the United States, a commission 
that will be funded for fact-based hearings, the opportunity 
for all people to be heard, and then, yes, reparative healing 
proposals to deal with the questions of the starkness of the 
life of African Americans in this country.
    Like our last hearing, the minority has selected two 
African-American witnesses to speak against H.R. 40. That is 
their privilege. We know that justice, facts, and that life 
that was led and continues to be led by African Americans is on 
our side. Their selection, however, fails to undermine the 
overwhelming support for this legislation and merely 
demonstrates the multiplicity of views within the Black 
community.
    I would ask unanimous consent to submit into the record a 
message from the CARICOM Reparations Commission on the occasion 
of the United States congressional hearing on H.R. 40, Bill 17, 
February 17, 2021. Mr. Chair, I ask for that permission.
    Mr. Cohen. Without dissent, it is so granted. So entered.
    [The information follows:]

      

                MS. JACKSON LEE FOR THE OFFICIAL RECORD

=======================================================================

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    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you.
    I also ask, Mr. Chair, as I conclude, for the submission of 
the ``Why We Can't Wait'' letter, because the question that Dr. 
King asked is relevant today, why we can't wait. It has been 
signed, Mr. Chair, by more than 300 organizations from varying 
backgrounds, racial backgrounds, including Japanese Americans, 
rabbinical associations, individuals from the diocese of the 
Episcopalians, the NAACP, Urban League, and many others.
    As I conclude, I ask my colleagues to recognize that what 
we speak of today is based on the continuing impact of the 
brutality of slavery.
    As I close, I need you to take a look at what I offer to 
put into the record. This was our life, the back of a beaten 
slave. This was our life into the 20th century, pain of African 
Americans, men and women. This was our life. This was our life 
when we were in public display, brutalized. Our life was also 
the Tulsa riots where 300 African Americans were buried in an 
unmarked grave.
    So, Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent for those pictures 
of lynching that continued into the 20th century and offer to 
say that I conclude my remarks by saying this is a potent and 
powerful hearing today, and I am glad that we are responding to 
the majority of Americans who see the value in H.R. 40, the 
Commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals.
    I yield back, Mr. Chair. I ask unanimous consent that the 
pictures be submitted into the record.
    [The information follows:]

      

                MS. JACKSON LEE FOR THE OFFICIAL RECORD

=======================================================================

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Ms. Jackson Lee. Those will be 
entered into the record. Without objection.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chair. Thank 
you. I look forward to hearing from the witnesses.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Ms. Jackson Lee.
    We will welcome our witnesses and thank all of them for 
participating. There are eight witnesses, six picked on the 
Democratic side and two on the Republican side. While I won't 
be here for some of the testimony, Mr. Herschel Walker's in 
particular, I was a fan of his except when he played the 
Memphis Tigers or the Memphis, I think it was the Grizzlies, or 
whoever we were in the league in the USFL.
    I would like to welcome all of our witnesses and let you 
know that your testimony is--if you would like, summarize your 
testimony in 5 minutes. Normally we have lights to tell you 
whether you have got 4 minutes or more to go, a green light; 1 
minute, a yellow one; and a red light to say your time is up. 
With this system, we will have timing on your screen to tell 
you how much time you have left. Please try to keep your 
statements to simply 5 minutes.
    All of our witnesses have a legal obligation to provide 
truthful testimony and answers to this subcommittee, and any 
false statement you make today may subject you to prosecution 
under section 1001 of title 18 of the United States Code.
    Also, I would like to note that we have scheduled 
testimony, we had, from former Congressman and Cabinet 
Secretary Norman Mineta. Unfortunately, we were informed 
yesterday he is very ill and not able to participate today. I 
wish him a full and speedy recovery.
    Our first witness is Shirley Weber. She is the California 
secretary of state, a position she has held since December of 
2020, a newbie. She previously served as a member of the 
California State Assembly, representing the 79th Assembly 
District, including portions of San Diego, after having been 
elected in 2012.
    Before that she served on the San Diego Board of Education 
as a professor of African-American studies at San Diego State 
University.
    She received her Ph.D. in communications, as well as her 
master's and bachelor's degrees, from UCLA.
    Secretary Weber, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                 STATEMENT OF SHIRLEY N. WEBER

    Ms. Weber. Thank you very much. I want to thank Chair 
Nadler, Chair Cohen, and Ranking Member Johnson, as well as 
thank Congresswoman Jackson Lee, for inviting me to be with you 
this morning.
    As pointed out, I am currently the secretary of State for 
the State of California, the first African American who has 
ever held that position in the 170-year history of the State of 
California. So, I come to you today as the author also last 
year when I was in the assembly of AB 3121, a reparations bill.
    For us in California, we are very clear that we need not 
ask whether or not slavery has had an impact, but instead 
illuminate the extent to which it has had an impact. We are 
through AB 3121, which is law in California, establishing the 
Task Force to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for 
African Americans. It will consist of experts and study 
slavery's impact, educate Californians, compile a report of 
their findings, and provide information and recommendations to 
our legislature as to what we need to do to repair the damage 
done as a result of slavery.
    The body that will exist, the task force, it will encompass 
experts in fields such as history, ethnography, law, and civil 
rights. But, more importantly, the body will consist of those 
who understand how we as Californians still reap the 
consequences of slavery both nationally and in our own State.
    California's history with slavery is often not well known, 
but between the statehood in 1850 and the end of slavery in 
1865, California, though named a free State, had many laws and 
rules and regulations that basically made it a haven for 
slavery.
    The California Legislature authorized Southern slaveholders 
to hold persons in bondage so long as they entered the State 
under an enslaved property State. We did not provide sanctuary 
to any slave who ran who was basically seeking freedom. In 
1852, we adopted one of the most harsh fugitive slave laws in 
the country, encompassing State and local law enforcement or 
authorities to enforce self-emancipated persons living within 
the State back into slavery.
    The California Supreme Court ordered fugitive slaves, as in 
the case of Archy Lee, to return to their enslavers in direct 
violation of California's law. Until the end of the Civil War, 
California's city, county, and law enforcement authorities 
enforced the Fugitive Slave Law. They enforced also a contract 
labor system that was no more than a slaveholder's effort to 
maintain their slaves in bondage.
    In other words, California State, county, and city 
authorities actively supported the institution of Black slavery 
both within and beyond the borders of California.
    So, this history is often not a part of California's lore, 
that we somehow or another believed that California was this 
free State and had no discrimination that existed in the State 
of California.
    It should be noted not only that every attempt that has 
been made by African Americans to attain wealth that was 
enjoyed by others has been met with violence in this Nation, 
not only involved the Black Wall Street in Oklahoma but also 
the Allensworth story in California. We have not only taken 
away the good part that African Americans have started, but the 
campaign of terror met by African Americans has tactics such as 
fearmongering, lynchings, discriminatory voting laws, lower 
wages, denied home ownership, and these tactics have led to 
inequalities and the reality in California.
    According to Governor Newsom in the 2020 State of the State 
Address, Black Californians, we make up only 8 percent of 
California's population, yet we make up 43 percent of the 
homeless population in California. We also make up only 5.6 
percent of the male population of California, yet we make up 28 
percent of those who are incarcerated, Black men who are 
incarcerated.
    It also shows us, by any indication, that African-American 
children, despite the fact that they have been in California 
for many years, continue to perform at the lowest level that is 
possible. Of course, COVID-19 has emphasized to all of us, just 
the disparities that exist in California in terms of the deaths 
and the health system that has failed us all.
    In sum, the age of enslavement, both in California and 
across the Nation, birthed a legacy of racial harm and 
inequality that continues to impact the conditions of Black 
life in California. People have suffered various injuries and 
losses through the malicious culpability, negligence, and 
conduct of others and we have the right to redress.
    Interestingly enough, as California has, we have had 
reparations in many areas throughout California and this 
Nation, and yet none have felt the need to provide it for 
African Americans. The task force is currently being 
established. We hope that the recommendations that will come 
forth will be recommendations that will begin to repair the 
damage done to us in California.
    By no means does this mean that there should not be Federal 
reparations in any sense. The law clearly states that. Out of 
all due respect, Californians can no longer wait for the 
national government to do its job. We believe that we must do 
what is necessary for Californians and be an example of what 
can happen in this Nation when there is serious discussions and 
research done on African Americans and the impact of slavery.
    We hope that the Nation will join California in forming a 
task force to be able to address the issue of reparations and 
the damage that has been done and continues to be done as a 
result of the engagement in slavery.
    Thank you so very much.
    [The statement of Ms. Weber follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Madam Secretary.
    Our next witness is--and going to have work with me on the 
pronunciation--Tendayi Achiume. If I am wrong, I apologize.
    She is a professor of law at UCLA and the U.N. Special 
Rappor-teur on Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial 
Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance. Her work 
focuses on the global governance of racism and xenophobia and 
the legal and ethical implications of colonialism for 
contemporary international migration. More generally, her 
research and teaching interests lie in international human 
rights law, international refugee law, international migration, 
and property.
    She earned her J.D. and her B.A. from Yale University and 
then moved on to sunny southern California.
    Professor, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                STATEMENT OF E. TENDAYI ACHIUME

    Ms. Achiume. Thank you very much.
    Congresspersons, it is a privilege to address you today. I 
am professor of law at UCLA School of Law, where I am a core 
faculty member of the Promise Institute for Human Rights and 
the Critical Race Studies Program, and my areas of expertise 
include international human rights law and the global 
governance of racism.
    I am also the United Nations Special Rapporteur on 
Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia 
and Related Intolerance. In this role, I am an independent 
expert who is appointed to provide counsel to U.N. member 
states regarding, among other things, the meaning of their 
obligations under international human rights law to combat 
racism, racial discrimination, and to promote racial equality.
    My testimony today is drawn to a great extent from a report 
I presented to the United Nation General Assembly in 2019 on 
the urgency of reparations for racial discrimination rooted in 
transatlantic slavery and colonialism.
    International law recognizes reparations as necessary for 
rectifying wrongful acts and providing accountability for human 
rights violations. Within the international legal system, 
reparations entail a specific framework and responses, which I 
describe in full in my written testimony. Briefly, within the 
system reparations are defined broadly to require restitution, 
compensation, satisfaction, rehabilitation, and guarantees of 
nonreputation.
    Popular conceptions of reparations are often fairly narrow, 
focusing only on financial compensation. By contrast, the 
international system places emphasis on a more comprehensive 
approach, according to which financial compensation may 
certainly be necessary but not sufficient. Other required 
measures may include transforming the political, economic, and 
social institutions and mechanisms for disclosing truth and 
restoring dignity for those subject to racial subordination 
resulting from legacies of enslavement.
    Notably, general measures, such as social welfare programs 
that benefit racially subordinated groups, including people of 
African descent, that are pursued in the ordinary conduct of 
government, are not a substitute for reparations. Fulfillment 
of State reparative responsibilities requires tailored 
interventions that are rooted in acknowledgement of the 
underlying harm of violations these interventions seek to 
remedy.
    In the context of racial discrimination rooted in slavery, 
reparations address two sets of human rights. First, the 
historic racial injustices of slavery that remain largely 
unaccounted for today. Second, the contemporary racially 
discriminatory effect of structures of inequality and 
subordination that have resulted from failures to address the 
racism of slavery and of colonialism.
    There is broad consensus in the international community 
that the abolition of the transatlantic slave trade and slavery 
in general did not terminate the racial discriminatory 
structures built by those practices. The consensus is that 
transatlantic slavery and colonialism remain among the root 
causes of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia, and 
related intolerance against Africans and people of African 
descent.
    As a result, in addition to implicating individual wrongful 
acts in the past, reparations for slavery implicate entire 
legal, economic, social, and political structures that enabled 
slavery and which continue to sustain racial discrimination and 
inequality today.
    This means that the urgent project of providing reparations 
for slavery requires governments not only to fulfill remedial 
obligations resulting from specific historic wrongful acts, but 
also to transform contemporary structures of racial injustice 
and of inequality and discrimination that are the product of 
centuries of slavery.
    National commissions such as those proposed by H.R. 40 are 
well positioned to tailor recommendations to specific legal 
contexts which sustain racial inequality. In the United States, 
the history of transatlantic slavery has left an indelible 
mark. The continued presence of racism, racial discrimination, 
ideologies of racial superiority in U.S. legal, political, 
social, and economic structures underscores the interconnection 
between the historical wrongs of slavery and contemporary 
injustices.
    I have joined other U.N. experts in noting that reparations 
are not just useful mechanisms for fulfilling moral or 
political obligations. Rather, reparations for slavery are an 
integral part of fulfilling the international legal mandate to 
eliminate racial discrimination. The United States is not 
exempt from these responsibilities, and H.R. 40 would represent 
important progress in fulfilling its obligations under 
international law.
    Reparations for racial discrimination rooted in the 
transatlantic slave trade have proven controversial in the 
countries that bear the greatest responsibility for the 
associated violation. In cases where states have pursued 
reparations for slavery and colonialism, they have done so in 
racially discriminatory ways. Notable historical examples exist 
where Whites who have profited and benefited the most from 
chattel slavery and colonialism receive monetary compensation, 
while non-Whites and their nations were partially or wholly 
left without redress.
    The reparations commission proposed by H.R. 40 presents an 
opportunity for the United States to show international 
leadership on what can be achieved when sufficient political 
will exists to remedy historic and persisting racial injustice 
associated with the enslavement of people of African descent.
    Among the most significant barriers to the pursuit of 
reparations for people of African descent in the United States 
and elsewhere is the absence of comprehensive accounting of the 
harms of slavery, and the reparations commission would provide 
the foundation for this accounting.
    Thank you very much.
    [The statement of Ms. Achiume follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you very much, Professor. I appreciate 
your lifelong studies and your work and your passion and your 
participation.
    Our next witness is Kathy Masaoka. Ms. Masaoka is co-chair 
of Nikkei for Civil Rights and Redress. Since 1971 she has 
worked on youth, workers, housing, and redress issues in the 
Little Tokyo section of Los Angeles. She is a graduate of the 
University of California, Berkeley.
    Ms. Masaoka, you are recognized. Thank you.

                   STATEMENT OF KATHY MASAOKA

    Ms. Masaoka. Good morning, Chairperson, Ranking Member of 
the committee, and Members of the committee.
    The Nikkei for Civil Rights and Redress, NCRR, and Nikkei 
Progressives support H.R. 40 and the Black community's demand 
for reparations because, one, it is the right thing to do; two, 
it is long overdue; and, three, because we know it is possible. 
We won reparations in 1988.
    Japanese Americans were not the first to make that demand. 
The Black community has long demanded reparations. In 1963, 
Queen Mother Audley Moore, the mother of the modern day 
reparations movement, launched a campaign claiming back pay for 
descendants of enslaved people as well as job quotas and 
training. Groups like the Self-Determination Committee formed 
in 1956, and along with the National Coalition of Blacks for 
Reparations in America and the National African American 
Reparations Committee have called for reparations for the 
institution and legacy of slavery.
    H.R. 40, as you know, has a long history, thanks to late 
Congressman John Conyers. Even before the Civil War and since 
emancipation, individual Black Americans fought for and won 
limited reparations.
    Our community's demand for reparations did not arise by 
itself, but was inspired by the Black community's fight for 
civil and equal rights in housing, education, and more. Their 
sacrifices and leadership opened the doors for us and gave us 
the strength to demand redress and reparations from the U.S. 
Government.
    We have to acknowledge the generous support of many Black 
groups and individuals who supported us in our campaign for 
redress, like Congressman Mervyn Dymally, who authored a 
Japanese-American redress bill in 1982, Representative Ron 
Dellums who spoke in support of the bill, and the Congressional 
Black Caucus, and many others, including then California 
Assemblywoman Maxine Waters and the Reverend Jesse Jackson.
    H.R. 40 is an important first step towards reparations for 
the Black community. In 1981, when the Commission on Wartime 
Relocation and Internment of Civilians, the CWRIC, a commission 
to study if a wrong had been committed, was first proposed, 
many of us, including me, were against it, angry that the 
injustice of the concentration camps was even a question. We 
soon understood that this was an opportunity for many former 
incarcerees to speak out about their feelings and experiences 
they had held inside for 40 years.
    So, the community swung into action to mobilize testifiers 
for the hearings. NCRR played a key role in organizing 
grassroots support within the Japanese-American community, 
insisting that former incarcerees speak at the hearings instead 
of just having experts or academics testify.
    Many of the Sansei, third-generation Japanese Americans 
like myself and children of the incarcerees, organized this 
effort. We heard anger, sadness, pain, and strength as we 
listened to stories we had never heard before. None of us could 
stop listening. It was an opportunity to begin the healing 
process for our elders, ourselves, and for the entire 
community.
    More importantly, it was a chance for those incarcerated to 
express their own demands for income and freedoms lost, for 
babies who had died, for dignity taken away, and much more.
    These hearings brought our Issei, Nisei, and Sansei, first, 
second, and third generations, together to build a grassroots 
campaign, educate others about the incarceration, and reach out 
to other communities to win reparations.
    Moreover, the hearings solidified our determination to hold 
our government accountable and to continue the campaign no 
matter how long it took. We saw individual reparations as a 
just accounting and not as a handout.
    Similarly, H.R. 40 is an opportunity for all of us to learn 
about the institution and legacy of slavery and its destructive 
impact that continues today on the Black community. This is a 
chance for many Black voices to be heard and for the Black 
community to express what kind of reparations it is owed.
    What we must do is listen and learn from these stories, 
from broader historical context to the most personal 
testimonies of pain, trauma, and generational struggle.
    It was important for Japanese Americans to determine our 
own path for redress and reparations, and we fully stand behind 
the Black community as they determine their own path forward.
    There is no dispute that the wealth of this country was 
built on the stolen lands of the indigenous people and on the 
free slave labor of Black people. In other words, reparations 
are owed to Black people and to the indigenous people as guided 
by their communities.
    The Movement for Black Lives toolkit talks about 
reparations being owed in a manner and form to be determined by 
Black people themselves. It must take as many forms as 
necessary to equitably address the many forms of injury caused 
by the institution and legacy of slavery. H.R. 40 is a 
necessary first step towards justice. It is a first step 
towards healing.
    Thank you very much.
    [The statement of Ms. Masaoka follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Ms. Masaoka. I appreciate your 
testimony and your relating the experiences of Japanese 
Americans and African Americans.
    Our next witness is Mr. Herschel Walker. Mr. Walker is a 
former professional football player, college football player, 
athlete in general. He played college football at the 
University of Georgia, and he won the 1982 Heisman Trophy.
    In his professional football career that began in the 
United States Football League with the New Jersey Jets, he 
played for the Dallas Cowboys in the NFL, the Vikings, the New 
York Giants--football Giants--and the Philadelphia Eagles. He 
also competed in the 1992 Winter Olympics as a bobsledder and 
has competed as a mixed martial artist.
    He was a supporter of President Trump in 2016 and 2020, 
spoke at the 2020 Republican National Convention.
    He holds a bachelor of science degree in criminal justice 
studies from the University of Georgia.
    Mr. Walker, you will be recognized for 5 minutes.
    At this point, I need to go to the Natural Resources 
Committee for an organizational meeting. Ms. Jackson Lee, if 
you are there, if you will take the chair for Mr. Walker's 
testimony and until I can return.
    Ms. Jackson Lee?
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Yes, sir, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Cohen. You are recognized.
    Mr. Walker, you are recognized. You are now the acting 
chair. Thank you, ma'am.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. [Presiding.] Mr. Chair, I can't thank you 
enough for your stupendous leadership and friendship. We will 
do this together. Again, thank you for your history on all of 
this. Glad to work with you and Chair Nadler. I just wanted to 
interject that as you move to your other committee.
    I am delighted to listen to Mr. Walker.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you.
    Mr. Walker, you are recognized.

                  STATEMENT OF HERSCHEL WALKER

    Mr. Walker. Chair and Ranking Member, I thank you for this 
opportunity to speak on reparations, which has been spoken 
about many times over my lifetime, though over the past year it 
has become a hot topic.
    I ask the question: Why? There have been many surveys show 
that a large percentage of Black and White teens will say 
racism is better today than yesterday. We use Black power to 
create White guilt.
    My approach is Biblical. How can I ask my Heavenly Father 
to forgive me if I can't forgive my brother? I never want to 
put anyone's religion down, but my religion teaches 
togetherness. Reparations teach separation.
    Slavery ended over 130 years ago. How can a father ask his 
son to spend prison time for a crime he committed? In the case 
we speak of, we are researching farther back in history, a 
history many are not taught or spoken about in school.
    America is the greatest country in the world to me, a 
melting pot, a lot of great races, a lot of great minds that 
have come together with different ideas to make America the 
greatest country on Earth. Many have died trying to get into 
America. No one is dying trying to get out.
    Reparations. Where would the money come from? Does it come 
from all of the other races except the Black taxpayers? Who is 
Black? What percentage of Black must you be to receive 
reparations? Do you go to 23-and-Me or a DNA test to determine 
the percentage of Blackness?
    Some American ancestors just came to this country 80 years 
ago. Their ancestors weren't even here during slavery. Some 
Black immigrants weren't here during slavery nor their 
ancestors. Some States didn't even have slavery.
    We as Black Americans have always wanted what the 
Constitution stated: All men, Black, White, and today Latino, 
Asian, Italian, et cetera, should be guaranteed the 
inalienability of rights of life, freedom, and the pursuit of 
happiness.
    Years later, after slavery ended, Dr. King's ``I Have a 
Dream'' speech said the signing of the Emancipation 
Proclamation was a great beacon of light, but hundreds of years 
later we are still not free because of segregation and 
discrimination. Today, I call that reparation.
    I asked my mom, who is in her mid-eighties, her thought on 
reparation. Her words, ``I do not believe in reparation. Who is 
the money going to go to? Has anyone thought about paying the 
families who lost someone in the Civil War who fought for their 
freedom? Your dad and I taught you,'' speaking of me, ``to 
provide for you and your family through a good education and 
hard work.''
    If you give a man a fish, you feed him a day. You teach him 
to fish, you feed him a lifetime. Reparation is only feeding 
you for a day. It is removing a sign of ``For Whites Only,'' 
replacing it with a sign for ``No Education Here.'' Black 
America is asking for a hand up, not a handout.
    Another big question: Who is the guilty party? Should we 
start at the beginning where African-Americans sold the 
African-American ancestors into slavery and to a slave trader 
who eventually sold the African-American ancestors to slave 
owners, the slave owners who had no success and no luck trying 
to make a Native American whose land they took become their 
slave because the Native American ran away.
    Well, they thought it was fine then to use African 
Americans who didn't know the country, didn't know the 
language, didn't know the religion, and they didn't run away.
    So I ask: Why reparation? Now, we are in the years 2020 and 
2021, still talking about reparation, not equal education.
    Not to compare a game to a horrible period in my life, but 
as I fought shoulder and shoulder with my fellow football 
brothers of other races, I saw struggles they were encountering 
the same as I. I heard them speak to their parents of problems 
my family were dealing with as well.
    If a Black player would have been given something different 
than another player, it would have created problems within the 
team, separation and division.
    Ezekiel 18:20: The righteousness of the righteous shall be 
upon him. The son shall not suffer for the crime of the father, 
nor the father suffer the crime of the son unless either father 
or son know beforehand the father or son was a criminal.
    To help any race, provide them with a good quality 
education and help incentivize through opportunities with 
responsibilities which helps generation in the future. If 
reparation is a fee or a correction for a terrible sin of slave 
owners, government and others, but we punish the nonguilty 
party, is it not creating division or separation with different 
races?
    I feel it continues to let us know we are still African 
American rather than just American. If reparation or atonement 
is outside the teaching of Jesus Christ, you are not teaching 
the Word of God.
    So I speak back.
    [The statement of Mr. Walker follows:]
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    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much for your testimony. I 
am delighted to now be able to introduce our next witness is 
Mr. Kamm Howard.
    Mr. Howard is the male co-chair of the National Coalition 
of Blacks for Reparations in America, or NCOBRA. If I might, 
NCOBRA is a founding father and mother of the effort and the 
mission of H.R. 40, working early on with the late Dean of the 
United States Congress, John Conyers, and continuing to work 
with over 300 organizations that are now standing very 
effectively in support of H.R. 40.
    NCOBRA is a mass-based coalition of organizations and 
individuals organized for the sole purpose of obtaining 
reparations for persons of African descent in the United 
States. He is a Chicago businessman and real estate investor 
and a long-time activist on the issue of reparations and 
reparative justice. I think it is important to take note of the 
fact that Mr. Howard is a businessman, an investor, but he is 
also someone who understands pulling yourself up by the boot 
strap works when you have boots.
    In 2015, as a member of the National African-American 
Reparations Commission, he led a team to revise H.R. 40 and in 
June of 2020, he successfully led the work to pass the City of 
Chicago Subcommittee on Reparations. He lived it. He has been 
successful, and he understands that the Nation now needs H.R. 
40.
    Mr. Howard, you are recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you 
very much.
    Mr. Howard? I will give Mr. Howard one more minute, one 
more moment, and then we will go with our next witness, and we 
will bring Mr. Howard back in in a moment.
    Let me now move to our next witness, is Mr. Elder. Mr. 
Elder is a conservative attorney, author, and host of the 
national syndicated radio program, The Larry Elder Show. He 
also writes a nationally syndicated column and produces videos 
for his YouTube channel in association with the Epic Times. Mr. 
Elder received a J.D. from the University of Michigan and his 
B.A. from Brown University.
    Mr. Elder, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                  STATEMENT OF LAURENCE ELDER

    Mr. Elder. Congresswoman Lee, thank you very much for 
having me. I really appreciate it.
    I am the executive producer of a documentary that came out 
June 19 last year called, ``Uncle Tom: An Oral History of the 
Black Conservative.'' As Congresswoman Lee pointed out, Black 
people are a race of overcomers. It talks about the fact that, 
despite all the problems that have been brought up in this 
Committee about racism, about slavery, about Jim Crow, Black 
people have overcome to the point now where only 20 percent of 
Black people are below the federally defined level of poverty. 
Still too high, in 1940, that number was 87 percent. Twenty 
years later, that number had been reduced to 47 percent, a 40-
point drop in 20 years. That is the greatest 20-year period of 
economic expansion for the history of Black Americans.
    Notably they came before the Brown v. Board of Education 
decision. They came before the civil rights bills of 1964, 
1965. Despite all of this racism, all of the prejudice, Black 
people still overcame. I often find it ironic we are having 
this hearing 13 years after we elected and then re-elected the 
first Black President of the United States.
    I am old school. I still get the newspapers thrown to my 
house. The day that Obama got elected, I got The New York Times 
and The L.A. Times thrown to my home. On the front pages of 
both those newspapers, there were color pictures of Black 
parents hugging their kids, crying, saying things like: Now, I 
can say for the first time truly that if you work hard, you can 
be anything you want to be.
    In 1997, Time Magazine and CNN did a broad survey of Black 
teens and White teens, and asked both of them whether or not 
racism was a major problem in America. Both of them said yes, 
not too surprisingly, but then Black teens were asked the 
following question: Is racism a big problem, a small problem, 
or no problem in your own daily life? Eighty-nine percent of 
Black teens in 1997 said racism was a small problem or no 
problem in my own daily life. In fact, twice as many Black 
teens as White teens said: ``Failure to take advantage of 
available opportunities is a bigger problem than racism,'' end 
of quote. Again, was 23 years ago before Obama got elected, let 
alone re-elected.
    Speaking of Obama, 2007, he ran for Presidency. His rival 
for the Democratic side was Hillary Clinton and on the 
Republican side the two rivals, primary rivals, were John 
McCain and Mitt Romney. Gallop asked whether or not Americans 
would not vote for a Black person, referring to Obama; would 
not vote for a woman, referring to Hillary Clinton; would not 
vote for a Mormon, referring to Mitt Romney; would not vote for 
a person as old as John McCain would be 72 years old.
    What Gallup found was 5 percent of Americans said they 
would not under any circumstances vote for a Black person; 11 
percent said they would not under any circumstances vote for a 
female; 24 percent said they would not vote for a Mormon; 42 
percent said they would not vote for a person who would be 72 
years old when he became President, which would have been the 
case had John McCain being elected. In other words, Obama as a 
Black person had a smaller barrier than these three White 
politicians.
    So, having this conversation right now when racism has 
never been a less significant problem in America to me is mind-
boggling. Right now, Congress is 12 percent Black, which is 
roughly the percentage of Blacks in America. In 1964, Martin 
Luther King gave an interview to the BBC, and he said he was 
surprised at the changes that had taken place in America in 
recent years, and he believed that a Black person could become 
President in 40 years' time or maybe even less. That is roughly 
around the time when Obama became President. Martin Luther King 
did not say we will know when we have arrived at the promise 
land when there is a Black coach of Notre Dame, which has 
happened; when there is a Black female who is the President of 
an ivy league university, which has happened; when Blacks are 
mayors of all the major cities in America, which has happened; 
when Blacks are police chiefs of the major cities in America; 
when they are superintendents of schools of America, or mayors 
of America, sometimes all three at the same time; he did not 
say that. He did not say when Black people become millionaires 
and billionaires, which has happened. He did not say when Black 
people become CEOs of Fortune 500 companies. He said when a 
Black person becomes President, that is when we will know we 
have reached a point where people are being evaluated based on 
the content of their character to the extent that it is 
reasonable to expect.
    The idea that slavery built America is belied by the fact 
that, at one time, Virginia was the most populous and 
wealthiest State in the Union, but within a couple of 
generations, it had fallen behind States in the North because 
the South depended upon slavery, which impoverished the South 
relative to the North, which is primarily why the North won the 
election.
    No one could have had or very few people could have had a 
life harder than my father. My father was 13 years old, born in 
1915. He was kicked out of his house by his mother. Athens, 
Georgia, Jim Crow at the beginning of the Great Depression.
    The man walked down the street, did whatever he could. 
Ultimately, he became a Pullman porter on the trains, which was 
the largest private employer of Blacks in those days. Traveled 
all the world, became a marine, was one of the first Black 
marines, a Montford Point marine, and my dad always told my 
brothers and me the following: Hard work wins. You get out of 
life what you put into it. You cannot control the outcome, but 
you are 100 percent in control of the effort. Before you 
complain about what other people did to you, go to the nearest 
mirror and say to yourself, what could I have done to change 
the outcome?
    My dad always told us this: No matter how hard you work, no 
matter how good you are, sooner or later bad things will happen 
to you. How you respond to those bad things will tell your 
mother and me if we raised a man.
    My father always said this about the Democrat Party: They 
want to give you something for nothing. When you try to get 
something for nothing, you almost always end up getting nothing 
for something.
    Thank you very much for taking the time. I appreciate it.
    [The statement of Mr. Elder follows:]
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    Ms. Jackson Lee. Attorney Elder, thank you so very much for 
your presentation today.
    Mr. Howard, are you present?
    Mr. Howard. I am, Congresswoman.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Did you hear my introduction?
    Mr. Howard. I did, Congresswoman.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. All right. I think I will then just ditto 
my introduction to you. Thank you so very much for this 
longstanding commitment, and I will yield now to you. You are 
recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you very much.

                    STATEMENT OF KAMM HOWARD

    Mr. Howard. Thank you, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, 
for your strong leadership on this legislation. NCOBRA would 
also like to thank the many congressional cosponsors of the 
Black Caucus, the Asian Caucus, Hispanic Caucus, and the 
Progressive Caucus. I am honored for this opportunity to 
testify before the Members of the House Judiciary Committee on 
the subject of ``H.R. 40, Exploring the Path to Reparative 
Justice of America.''
    The National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in 
America, NCOBRA, is in our 34th year fighting for reparations 
of crimes committed against humanity, committed against 
Africans and their descendants in the United States. NCOBRA 
wants this Committee to know that the H.R. 40 commission is 
long overdue.
    During the 32 years in which this bill has languished in 
Congress, many years have been wasted, many lives lost, and 
untold sorrows of African descendants have continued and 
abounded. Even the financial loss to this Nation in delaying 
redress since H.R. 40's first introduction is calculated to be 
near $25 trillion, about two to three times the cost of any 
minimally viable reparations plan.
    This means America would have gotten a 100 to 200 percent 
return on a reparations program if it had taken steps to do so. 
America would, in fact, be greater today if it had acted 
correctly at any time in its past. Even still, the opportunity 
for true greatness can begin with the rightful action of this 
117th Congress.
    H.R. 40 purports to establish a commission to do a 
comprehensive investigation into the wide scope of harms 
committed and the range of injuries still being suffered by 48 
million Black people in America. The highest standard of 
reparations is needed to adequately address over 400 years of 
atrocities and compounded and concretized injuries that this 
community endures. No quick fix. No singular action or tweak 
here or there in existing policy will do. America must engage 
in full reparations.
    Full reparations is the international standard for 
reparations, and NCOBRA declares there is no rational reason 
why the highest standard of redress should not be applied to a 
people harmed by its own government in so many ways and for so 
many years. Full reparations has five encompassing areas of 
repair:
    One, cessation, assurances, and guarantee of nonrepetition. 
America must cease all continuing wrongful and injurious acts, 
and put in place structures to ensure that they do not 
resurface in another name as slavery did during the Jim Crow-
apartheid period.
    The second area of repair is restitution. The goal here is 
restoration. Where would we be as a people if not for 246 years 
of stolen labor and accompanying horrors, if not for the 
multiple periods of multi-billion dollar plunder post 
enslavement? We must be made whole.
    Three, compensation. Compensation is obligatory if the 
damage is not made good by restitution. It must be, 
``appropriate and proportional'' to the gravity of the 
violations.
    Four, satisfaction. Here proposals must be offered that 
focus on the return of our dignity. In addition, full admission 
of fault, full acceptance of responsibility, and the 
willingness to do whatever it takes to repair the wrongs is a 
foundation of which satisfaction rests.
    Five, the final component of full reparations is 
rehabilitation. Initiatives must be developed that address the 
negative transgenera-tional, spiritual, emotional, mental, and 
physical effects of the historical traumas of enslavement, Jim 
Crow apartheid, and the ongoing racial violence and police 
terror.
    I will conclude with a brief comparison. During the Civil 
War, 200,000 men, 40,000 women, and 20,000 children of African 
descent aided the Union Army in saving this country from White 
nationalist hatred and destruction. Afterwards, a very grateful 
President and Congress quickly acted to reward this service 
with previously denied acts of justice, issuing Special Field 
Order No. 15, granting 40 acres and a mule, and passing strong 
civil rights legislation and three constitutional amendments.
    Fast-forward to November of last year, as the acts of 
January 6th proved, Blacks with our overwhelming vote for the 
Democratic Party, again, helped save America from White 
nationalist hatred and destruction. It is now time for this 
117th Congress to be as justice rendering as the Reconstruction 
Congresses. Passing H.R. 40 on the way to full reparations is 
how.
    A Luta Continua--Pamoja Mbilishaka. Asante sana. The 
struggle continues. Together we will be victorious. Many thanks 
to this committee.
    [The statement of Mr. Howard follows:]
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    Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Howard, thank you for that very 
powerful testimony.
    I am delighted now to yield to our next witness, Liz 
Dreisen Heath. Ms. Heath is assistant research and advocate 
with the U.S. Program of Human Rights Watch, a leading domestic 
research and advocacy on reparations and reparative justice, as 
well as human rights around the world. A most recent research 
endeavor, the conditions of pervasive inequality and structural 
violence stemming from the 1921 Tulsa race massacre, of which 
we need commemorate a hundred years this year.
    Prior to joining Human Rights Watch, she worked as a 
special assistant to the director and counsel of the Brennan 
Center, Washington, DC, office and was a researcher at the 
center. Her research in education and social policy at the 
University of Delaware. Ms. Heath holds a bachelor's degree 
from Wesleyan University.
    Ms. Heath, welcome. You are recognized for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF DREISEN HEATH

    Ms. Heath. On behalf of Human Rights Watch, it is an honor 
to be here today. Thank you to the Committee for this 
opportunity to testify about this important piece of 
legislation. I am Dreisen Heath, a researcher and advocate on 
racial justice issues within the U.S. Program at Human Rights 
Watch, an international organization that investigates human 
rights violations in over 90 countries around the world, 
including in the United States.
    The concept of reparations is well established in 
international human rights law. At its core is the idea that 
economic and social conditions cannot improve without 
addressing and repairing harm. The U.S. has never fully or 
properly reckoned with the gross human rights violation of 
chattel slavery and the post-emancipation racist policies that 
continue to impact Black people in the U.S. today.
    If racial justice is ever to be achieved, repair needs to 
be a part of the equation. Chattel slavery was national policy, 
reducing humans to the status of property, subjecting them to 
horrific violence and unspeakable cruelty while simultaneously 
exploiting them through forced labor that laid the foundation 
for the U.S. global economy as we know it today.
    The harms of enslavement range from mass death to routine 
torture and sexual violence to deprivation of education, food, 
medical care, and sanitation. The trauma of such harms have 
been passed down generationally. Post-emancipation promises of 
restitution in the form of 40 acres and a mule were broken. 
Coercive discriminatory Federal policies created by the New 
Deal and run through the Department of Agriculture helped to 
transfer much of the land Black farmers were still somehow able 
to obtain after slavery to White people, leading to Black 
farmers being dispossessed from roughly 90 percent of their 
land.
    In the 19th and 20th centuries, Black codes and Jim Crow 
laws denied Black people the right to vote, to serve on juries, 
allowed them to be exploited for cheap labor, and excluded them 
from nearly every aspect of daily life, reinforcing White 
cultural, political, and economic power, and perpetuating and 
deepening racial inequalities.
    The KKK, White paramilitary groups, and other White people, 
some deputized by law enforcement, terrorized Black people. In 
1921, for example, a White mob burned down the prosperous 
Greenwood District in Tulsa, Oklahoma, then known as Black Wall 
Street, killing hundreds of people, the government didn't 
provide reparations or help rebuild. They placed obstacles in 
the way of their rebuilding, setting generations of Black 
Tulsans back in countless ways, including economically and 
socially today.
    The Tulsa race massacre was just one of the many incidents 
of racial violence carried out by similar White mobs throughout 
the country between 1877 and 1950. The Equal Justice Initiative 
documented 4,300 terror lynchings during this period.
    In the 21st century alone, the Federal Government redlined 
many Black neighborhoods as high risk for lenders, making it 
virtually impossible for Black people to get home loans.
    Urban renewal programs tore down blighted areas, primarily 
low income and communities of color, displacing hundreds of 
thousands of families in the process. Federally financed 
highway systems destroyed Black neighborhoods. All of these 
policies contributed to institutional racism and the creation 
of present-day economic, education, employment, housing, food, 
sanitation, and health inequities.
    We have seen firsthand the disproportionate impact of 
COVID-19 on communities of color leading to more suffering and 
death. Black people continue to be policed, arrested, and 
jailed at rates vastly disproportionate to their numbers. For 
example, making up 40 percent of those incarcerated but only 13 
percent of the overall population.
    In this way, our policing and criminal legal systems 
maintain unequal power structures created and dominated by 
White people preserving White supremacy. The failure to provide 
full acknowledgement and repair has clearly worsened injuries 
in the Black community. How can a Nation truly heal if it takes 
no action towards acknowledging the full scope of pain and 
dressing the punctured wounds of racism?
    The U.S. Government has created commissions in the past 
like the one proposed by H.R. 40 to document and remedy 
violations. Rather than asking why at this stage, Congress 
should be asking how. How can we provide comprehensive repair 
for our grave and systemic failures connected to slavery, and 
what steps must we take to get there?
    I urge Congress to account for and repair systemic racism 
rather than to ignore it and embody it. We are at a defining 
moment in U.S. history, and reparative justice for the legacy 
of slavery demands facing the fierce urgency of now.
    Thank you.
    [The statement of Ms. Heath follows:]
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    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you so very much for your testimony 
that is so provocative and well detailed. Thank you for being 
here this morning. We appreciate it very much.
    I am delighted now to introduce our last witness, and that 
is Mr. Hilary O. Shelton. Mr. Shelton is director of the 
NAACP's Washington Bureau and its Senior Vice President for 
Advocacy and Policy. The question would be, who does not know 
Mr. Hilary O. Shelton as relates to the fight for civil rights 
for decades? His calming voice, his beliefs and values have 
been of great value to those of us in the United States 
Congress, to the NAACP, and the Nation.
    Mr. Shelton is responsible for advocating the Federal 
public policy issue agenda of the oldest, largest, and most 
widely recognized civil rights organization in the United 
States. Mr. Shelton's government affairs portfolio includes 
crucial issues, such as affirmative action, equal employment 
protection, access to quality education, stopping gun violence, 
ending racial profiling, abolition of the death penalty, access 
to comprehensive healthcare, voting rights protection, Federal 
sentencing reform, and a host of civil rights enforcement.
    He has been a major force and support of information as we 
went through the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act and as 
well his knowledge of H.R. 40 has been both assisting and 
informative in the work and research of this committee. So, we 
look forward to hearing from you, Mr. Shelton, as a person that 
believes in advancing and protection of those who cannot speak 
for themselves.
    Mr. Shelton, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                 STATEMENT OF HILARY O. SHELTON

    Mr. Shelton. Thank you very much, Congresswoman Jackson 
Lee. I also want to thank my other friends on the committee, 
including Chair that had to leave, Congressman Cohen, our 
Ranking Members Johnson, vice chair, ranking and, of course, 
the other distinguished Members of this Subcommittee of the 
Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties, as well as the 
Judiciary Committee for all of its help and all of its work in 
moving us to this point.
    We are excited about how things are moving on H.R. 40. This 
is a bill that we have worked very closely with the late great 
Congressman John Conyers of Detroit, Michigan, to look at 
issues that tie together many of the challenges that African 
Americans and other people of color have this day and, of 
course, the experience of the Transatlantic slave trade in the 
United States of America.
    The NAACP was founded in 1909, about 112 years ago, and has 
over 2,200 chartered Membership units located in every State 
across the country. We are also on military installations 
throughout the world as well, places like Italy, Germany, 
Korea, and Japan, as it participated and joining in the very 
integration of these armed services as well.
    We are a Membership-based association that continues to 
advocate for justice and equality for all American citizens and 
residents. Throughout the turbulent racial history of our 
country, the NAACP has steadfastly opposed institutions and 
persons who blocked our Nation's collective ability to reach 
our goals. 112 years ago, over 60 persons of variety races, 
faith, and political affiliations resolved to end lynching and 
race-based discrimination in the United States and just formed 
the NAACP. Just 20 years before they founded the NAACP, Black 
men began voting and holding elected offices on the State and 
national level, including several who served in our United 
States House of Representatives and the United States Senate 
were from Southern States. The 15th amendment to the U.S. 
Constitution and other laws forged the way for the amazing feat 
just a few years after the end of legal slavery in this 
country.
    At the turn of the 20th century, the first Reconstruction 
era all too quickly concluded, and many of the hard-fought 
gains of elected officials and civil rights advocates of that 
time were beginning to erode due to the rise of terror groups 
like the Ku Klux Klan, and so-called Black codes placed 
stumbling blocks in way of African Americans trying to simply 
reach the ballot box.
    I am here today to let you know of our strong support for 
H.R. 40, originally authored by the great John Conyers, as we 
mentioned, and presently shepherded by you, Congresswoman 
Jackson Lee. Your great leadership and your stalwart support in 
addressing the issues of justice in our country are clear in 
your support for H.R. 40.
    This legislation is long overdue and should be put into 
place this year. My hope is that, as the 117th Congress gets 
under way, that you will sign on to this bill as cosponsors 
everyone who hasn't joined so far and do all that you can to 
ensure its enactment. This legislation is an important step in 
acknowledging the inherent cruelty, brutality, and inhumanity 
of slavery as practiced in the United States and would help 
millions of Americans begin to heal the subsequent emotional 
wounds that have been festering for centuries.
    In confronting the ugly legacy of slavery, the commission 
created by H.R. 40 would examine the impact slavery has had on 
the racial and economic inequalities still suffered today. The 
commission would also be charged with renewing reparations 
proposals to help African Americans regain some of the statutes 
stripped away by our forefathers, lost through no-fault of our 
own.
    Research and academic reports demonstrates that the 
enslavement of Africans and the transatlantic slave trade were 
appalling tragedies in the history of our country, not only 
because of their abhorrent barbarism but also in terms of their 
magnitude, organized nature, and the complete negation of the 
humanity of the enslaved person. The enslavement of Africans 
constituted an immoral and inhumane depravation of a person's 
life, liberty, and cultural heritage.
    The enslavement of Africans resulted in the extinguishment 
of millions of Americans and eviscerated whole cultures, 
languages, religions, morals, and customs; psychologically, as 
such, the NAACP reaffirms our previous position in support of 
reparations and very grateful that we are raising this today, 
and, hopefully, we can move to a point of full passage.
    The United States, a Nation forged with a revolutionary 
struggle for inalienable human rights, natives of Africa were 
torn by force until the year 1808 from their homeland and 
subjected to the barbarities of institutionalized slavery. In 
this post-revolutionary United States, slavery was maintained 
by government fiat with violence, depriving African Americans 
of freedom of association, privacy, life, liberty, property, 
and due process of law in complete abdication of the spirit and 
spirit of the Bill of Rights from its inception and 
ratification of its enactment and ratifications of the 
antislavery amendment of 1865.
    Let me just say, Congresswoman, and those who are joining 
us, the issue of slavery is one that did not end with the 
stroke of Abraham Lincoln's pen and the Emancipation 
Proclamation. It did not end in the stripping away of actually 
adding to the Constitution by passing the reconstruction 
amendments, the 13th, 14th, and 15th. As a matter of fact, many 
of the residuals of the transatlantic slave trade sadly as we 
look at the disparities in data are still very much with us.
    We believe that this is a problem that must be solved, but 
like other important problems, in order to solve that problem, 
we must first measure it. As we are looking at those life 
conditions that affect African Americans and others in our 
country, we would look at issues of home ownership, and we 
would see that, in wealth development, that African Americans 
are less likely to own homes than White Americans, one of the 
key bridges to our wealth in the United States, that is 
investments to be able to continue to educate and train our 
children and to prepare for retirement as we become older and 
older.
    We know that very well through thinking about the 
challenges of the transatlantic slave trade, we know that 
issues of healthcare are still very much at a disparity. As we 
have gone through this pandemic, we recognize 
disproportionately that African Americans, the descendants of 
the slave trade in many cases, have no health insurance and, in 
many other cases, are under insured along those lines as well. 
That is why, as we look at whether it is issues of education 
and opportunity for high-quality education and support for our 
HBCUs, whether we look at small business development, whether 
we look at other health concerns and other life concerns, such 
as our criminal justice system, we see that the long legacy of 
slavery has been something that has actually had a very 
damaging imprimatur on African Americans, the African-American 
communities, and our families. We believe that the best way to 
solve that problem is to take it on head first.
    It is like everything else; we want to do the research. We 
want to hold the hearings. We want to formulize a process in 
which we can make sure we have the accurate information, and we 
can move forward to making our Nation greater still.
    So, Congresswoman Jackson Lee, I want to thank you for the 
opportunity for the NAACP to testify today. I want to thank you 
for your leadership and your continued stalwart support for the 
importance of all Americans, and as soon as we look at the 
issues that impact the African-American community, you have 
been front and center. So we thank you very much for that. I 
look forward to any questions we may have in this process.

    Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Shelton, thank you so very much for, 
again, your testimony.
    It is now time to begin the questioning. I will start by 
yielding myself 5 minutes and indicate that each of our Members 
will have the opportunity to question these very stellar and 
outstanding witnesses.
    I will start my questioning with Professor Achiume, and I 
hope I have also pronounced your name, but I am going to, 
again, put up in the screen, as close as I can, this picture, 
Professor. I wanted you to see it. I am not sure if you saw it 
before. It is lynching with an audience of White persons, some 
smiling men and women. Of course, this is the picture of the 
back of a slave that has been brutalized by a whip. It seems 
that as the testimony is proceeded, some of our friends who 
have been represented by very stellar Members presented by the 
minority, seem to confuse the overcomers and the ability to 
cite musicians and athletes and academicians and others from 
the reparative and the justice element of H.R. 40.
    If I might cite to you that Black people in America are 
three times the rate of White people with disparities across 
all age groups. For example, Black infants are more than twice 
as likely to die as White infants, making the disparity worse 
than 1850. In addition, when heads of White households who only 
have a high school diploma are sitting--are in a class are 
almost 10 times more wealth with a high school diploma as a 
White high school graduate than Black households with the same 
level of education.
    This is in the current 21st century. In addition, the gap 
between Black and White wealth is as large today as it was in 
1968. Can you comment, Professor, on this question as I present 
to you, how do you feel the international decade can be 
utilized to advance the cause of reparative justice for the 
people of African descent in the United States? I would 
appreciate it if you would incorporate this glaring disparity 
today that continued from slavery of disparities in the life 
expectancy of an infant compared to a White infant and, of 
course, the gaps of wealth that continue today. Thank you.
    Ms. Achiume. Thank you very much, Congresswoman, for this 
invitation to weigh in for this. You are absolutely right to 
point out that, within the United Nation system, which the U.S. 
is a part, we are in the International Decade for People of 
African Descent. The purpose of this decade is, in part, to 
recognize persisting human rights violations against people of 
African descent, including in the United States, that have not 
been addressed. Many of these human rights violations are 
rooted in racial discrimination, racial discrimination that is 
a legacy of colonialism and enslavement.
    So, we are in a very important time almost halfway through 
the decade and measures like H.R. 40, I think, are an essential 
way of fulfilling some of the goals of the International Decade 
of People of African Descent.
    The images that you shared are truly terrifying and the 
statistics that you also shared, I think, are also terrifying 
and heartbreaking, and they speak to two things. One is that 
reparations is about addressing injustices against individuals. 
So, when you show me the image of the people who were lynched, 
under the International Convention for the Elimination of 
Racial Discrimination, victims of racial injustices such as 
those are entitled to reparations for the harms that those 
individuals experienced.
    Even beyond that, reparations is about undoing structures, 
structures of racial injustice that are a result of legacies of 
enslavement, such that pointing to individuals who are Black 
who have succeeded while people of African descent and who are 
descendants even of slaves and pointing to their successes 
can't negate the fact that we have persistent structures of 
injustice that have to be addressed, including through a 
reparations frame.
    So, it is important to keep sight, both of remedying 
individual harms, undoing structures of injustice that are 
connected to legacies of slavery, and taking the opportunity of 
taking this action within the International Decade for People 
of African Descent.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Professor.
    Mr. Howard, we have heard that our minority witnesses agree 
that African Americans, other indigenous people built this 
country. In light of all the various entities that unjustly 
profited from the unpaid labor of African descendants, how 
might the H.R. Commission address this issue, and how would you 
respond to those who say reparations are simply about money? 
Mr. Howard?
    Mr. Howard. Thank you, Congresswoman, for that question. 
Yes, NCOBRA has historically stated that there are five basic 
injury areas that reparations must deal with. The first is the 
injury area of the criminal injustice system. As we know what 
happened with George Floyd exposed it and the police terror 
around this country exposed what is going on on a daily basis 
with Black people in this country. So, that must be addressed.
    The second injury area is that of education. The 
Congressman, the chair, Congressman Cohen, talked about the 
disparity in education. I think that one of the witnesses for 
the Republicans also talked about the disparities in education. 
Those types of things have to be addressed under reparations. 
We have to be restored.
    The third area is the wealth gap and the poverty gap. Those 
can be--there was a study by the Citibank that stated that $16 
trillion could have been infused into the economy if 
reparations would have been initiated 20 years ago, $16 
trillion, most of that from business revenue of the Black 
community if there was access to capital as other businesses 
are given access to capital.
    So, that is reparations that doesn't actually require a 
check. Also, we look at the health disparities, the health 
injury area. We know that not only is our physical health--not 
only is our mental health and emotional health, but also our 
physical health that has been challenged as a result of the 
historical traumas that we have experienced.
    Historical traumas can affect the ongoing and compounded 
trauma that our children are facing. It could also affect the 
reason why many of us have these preexisting illnesses that 
COVID attacked. Then finally our people--we have to address the 
foundational root cause of the atrocities that have been 
committed in this country against Black people, and that is 
that there is some notion built into the minds of Whites that 
they are superior and conversely into the minds of Blacks that 
they are inferior or in the minds of Whites that Blacks are 
inferior.
    So this speaks to the root of the cultural challenges, the 
cultural harms that were committed against our people. So, all 
of these things have to be addressed under a H.R. 40 
commission, not just the aspect of giving cash to an 
individual.
    Thank you.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much, Mr. Howard.
    Our Ranking Member Mr. Johnson has yielded. He was present 
at the beginning of the hearing, and so we are delighted now to 
yield 5 minutes to Mr. Owens. Mr. Owens, you are recognized for 
5 minutes.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you so much. I think I am going to start 
asking my questions in a second, but I would like us to bring 
back a little bit of history because I think history is really 
important as we talk about our past and where a lot of our 
evils have happened, and it has not been an American problem. 
It has been pretty specific.
    When you think about where slavery began, with segregation, 
where Jim Crow, it is always the Democratic Party. I believe we 
mentioned the 40 acres and a mule. That was ended by Democratic 
President Andrew Johnson. We talked about the KKK. That was a 
Democratic terrorist organization that actually was ended at 
the end of 1880s but brought back, again by Woodrow Wilson in 
1915.
    By the way, the lynching that we are talking about, 
horrendous, 4,700 people died by the hands of mobs, 1,300 of 
those were Whites, Italians, and Catholics because we are 
looking at a people that were just angry, evil people that 
hated anything that was different from them. So, I think it is 
important to keep that in mind.
    If we want to talk about reparations, let's look more 
specifically in terms of the people that actually did it. It 
was not Americans. Americans fought against that. That is why 
we end up winning and defeating slavery because so many 
Americans decided it was an evil thing to finish up. So, I 
wanted to make that point.
    Mr. Elder, I have a question. Last year, prior to the 
pandemic, the strength of the U.S. economy helped all 
Americans, most notably minority Americans. In fact, in CNBC, 
in 2019, so the African-American unemployment hit the lowest 
ever in the history of our country from a peak in 2010 of 16.6 
percent.
    First of all, how did that happen? Is that your 
understanding, correct those particular numbers?
    Mr. Elder. Well, that is right. It happened because taxes 
got lowered, regulations got eased, and the economy took off. 
When the economy takes off, those who are unskilled 
disproportionately improve, just as happened during the Reagan 
Administration. During the Reagan Administration, Black adult 
unemployment fell faster than did White adult unemployment. 
Hispanic adult unemployment fell faster than White unemployment 
fell. Black teen unemployment fell faster than White teen 
unemployment.
    Good economic policies work. Equal rights and equal results 
are two very different things, and that is what I think we are 
getting confused about here. Everybody is entitled to equal 
rights, but nobody is entitled to equal results. One of the 
witnesses--I believe it was Mr. Shelton--referred to Africans 
as being torn out of their countries. According to Harvard's 
Henry Louis Gates, that is not how it happened at all. Ninty 
percent of Africans were sold by African chieftains who had 
conquered them in tribes, sold them to European slavers and to 
Arab slavers.
    Speaking of Arab slavers, the Arab slave trade took place 
centuries before the European slave trade did and lasted 
longer, and the death rate was much, much higher. So, as we 
talk about who pays who, this is going to be one of the 
greatest generational transfers of wealth back and forth 
because virtually every people on the face of the Earth was 
involved in slavery. Europeans enslaved Europeans. Africans 
enslaved Africans, as mentioned. Native Americans even enslaved 
Native Americans. Asians enslaved Asians. In fact, White--
Muslim slavers took more Whites out of the Mediterranean than 
European slavers took Black out of Africa to North America. So 
figuring out who owes what is going to be a hell of an 
achievement.
    Now, I have been in radio and TV for some 35 years, and 
during that time, I have been unsuccessful in getting some of 
these Black leaders on my program. Al Sharpton won't come on. 
Jesse Jackson won't come on. Farrakhan won't come on. I will 
give Congresswoman Jackson Lee credit because she did come on 
my show several years ago. You may not remember it, 
Congresswoman, but you did come on several years ago.
    One of the leaders I was able to get on was Kweisi Mfume, 
who is now back in Congress. He was then the President of the 
NAACP, having left Congress. I said, ``Mr. Mfume, as between 
the presence of White racism or the absence of Black fathers, 
which poses the bigger threat to the Black community?''
    Without missing a beat, he said, ``The absence of Black 
fathers.''
    In 1915, 18 percent of Blacks were born outside of wedlock. 
That number now is almost 70 percent. I think most of us would 
agree that there was greater racism in 1915 than right now. We 
are not having a discussion about whether or not the welfare 
State has incentivized women to marry the government and 
incentivized men to abandon their financial and moral 
responsibility.
    It was Barack Obama who said, ``A kid raised without a 
father is five times more likely to be poor and commit crime, 
nine times more likely to drop out of school, 20 times more 
likely to end up in jail.''
    Why aren't we having a discussion about the absence of 
Black fathers and all of the unintended consequences that flow 
through that?
    Congressman Owens mentioned the high schools in Baltimore 
where zero percent can do math at grade level. Actually, it is 
13 public high schools in Baltimore where zero percent of kids 
can do math at grade level and another half a dozen where only 
1 percent can.
    Now, Baltimore is a city where in 2015, Freddie Gray died 
in police custody, as you know. The mayor was Black. Number one 
and number two running the police department were Black. City 
Council, all of Democrat majority Black. Three of the six cops 
who were charged Black--
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The time of the gentleman has expired. I 
will allow the witness to complete his answer.
    Mr. Elder. Okay. Thank you.
    The judge before whom two of the officers tried the case 
was Black. The State attorney who brought the charges against 
the officer was Black. The U.S. attorney was Black, and the 
President of the United States was Black, and we are talking 
about systemic, institutional racism? To me, it is crazy.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Mr. Elder.
    We are certainly appreciative of your words, and we well 
know that all of those suggestions that you have made is 
exactly what a commission does. It is fact finding. It prepares 
and it develops proposals.
    I am delighted now to yield to a longstanding supporter of 
H.R. 40 and Chair of the Full Committee, Mr. Nadler of New 
York.
    Mr. Nadler, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Chair Nadler. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    Secretary Weber, to your reference, the State of California 
passed legislation to establish a task force to study and 
develop reparation proposals for African Americans. How do you 
envision the structure and operation of a reparations 
commission or task force? Can you highlight the key differences 
between the California approach and that of H.R. 40?
    Ms. Weber. Well, the California approach is kind of modeled 
after H.R. 40, and it was passed last year. We are currently in 
the process of selecting the Members of the task force. It is a 
task force that is the Governor's task force that will have the 
Governor select individuals from--that he thinks should be a 
member. It is a nine-person task force. We have two Members--
the Governor will have five. We have two from the assembly and 
two from the Senate. So, the task force will basically be the 
nine person task force.
    Our goal is to try to use not only the experts that are in 
the field to inform the task force but also to utilize the 
universities of California. I am in charge of the California 
archives, as the secretary of State, to use our archives. Also, 
research Members have already begun to submit information. The 
goal is to collect the information about what role California 
played in the whole issue of enslavement and then to begin to 
talk about its impact with regards to the disparity of 
resources that exist in California.
    California is the fifth largest economy in the world, yet 
it has the greatest wealth gap of any State. The wealth of 
African American is $1 in comparison to $100 of a person who is 
White with similar education and background. So when we look at 
that, this group will begin to form discussions concerning it.
    This is not the first effort at reparations. In the past, 
there have been a couple of bills that were passed with 
reparations looking at California's insurance policies, how the 
insurance industry benefited financially from reparation. It is 
also had--so we have our insurance commissioner whose compiling 
data and information with regard to that.
    This group will then begin--after they have had a number of 
hearings, we plan to also have hearings that will educate 
California so the people in California understand what has 
happened with reparations. Too often we think that the only 
thing we need to do is give somebody some money and everybody 
is okay.
    That is not going to be the issue with the system as deep 
and pervasive as slavery has been in California and across the 
Nation. Those recommendations will then be taken by the 
commission and by the legislature, hopefully led by the 
California Legislative Black Caucus that I chaired at one point 
and then put into law, put into programs, a budget, those kinds 
of things are essential so that we can measure the impact that 
is there and begin to repair the damage that has been done.
    The task force will then obviously not only have staff and 
persons working on the budget that will come out of it. So, 
beginning in June, this task force will have been formed and 
will begin to hold hearings and recommendations that will come 
forward. Hopefully, we can share those with you with the 
experts that are there. We hope to be able to use the resources 
of our institutions to basically set the stage for what really 
happens in California that will also be probably a mirror for 
what is happening across the Nation.
    Chair Nadler. Thank you very much.
    Now, Mr. Howard, governments, corporations, industries, 
religious institutions, educational institutions, private 
estates, and other entities have all played significant roles 
in supporting the institution of slavery and its vestiges. In 
light of all the various entities that unjustly profited from 
the unpaid labor of African descendants, how might the 
commission address this issue?
    Mr. Howard. Thank you, Chair Nadler. Well, as you stated, 
there are four basic components of actors in the crimes of 
enslavement. That is the State and local governments, Federal 
governments, corporations, institutions like universities, the 
church, as well as individual families. So, all of those have 
to be brought under question when we go into a commission to 
study the harms in which present day African Americans face as 
a result of those atrocities.
    We know that, like in Chicago, there is a family, the 
McCormick family, that has a foundation. The McCormick family 
was made wealthy by an invention that was stolen from an 
African off their farm. It became the mechanical reaper which 
freed millions of Americans from the farm and allowed them to 
go into industry. The McCormick family from which the McCormick 
expo theater is named after, the largest expo center in 
America, they have an obligation. The commission would look at 
these foundations, these corporations, these institutions, and 
would determine what within their ability do they owe in making 
sure that the gaps in wealth, the gaps in education, the gaps 
in housing, and health do not continue forward into the future.
    They have responsibility. They have been enriched. The 
endowment that they share and hold are direct result of much of 
the atrocities as committed in the past. So, the commission 
would definitely look into those other players as well.
    Chair Nadler. How do you think the commission might deal 
with the groups like Asian Americans who have suffered 
discrimination over the years, like the Chinese Exclusion Act 
or the Japanese Exclusion Act and internment of Japanese during 
World War II? How do you think the commission could deal with 
that?
    Mr. Howard. Well, there is ancillary benefit to the entire 
Nation when reparations to African Americans are given, are 
administered. So, just like every person who comes to America 
benefits from the prosperity that was built off of enslavement, 
every American also benefits from the struggles that African 
Americans fought in opposition to human and civil rights 
abuses. If you look at women, if you look at the disabled, if 
you look at the immigrant, all of those people no matter what 
protected class they are in, they benefit from historical 
struggles of African Americans. So, this struggle to be 
repaired would also have ancillary benefits for the entire 
Nation.
    Chair Nadler. Well, thank you very much. I see my time is 
expired.
    So, I yield back.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Chair, thank you so very much for your 
participation and your questions.
    I now yield to Mr. McClintock, the gentleman from 
California, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. McClintock?
    Mr. McClintock. Sorry. How is that?
    Ms. Jackson Lee. There you are. Thank you very much. You 
have 5 minutes.
    Mr. McClintock. I listened to Chair Cohen speaking 
extensively about the three-fifths provision in the 
Constitution. I don't think he understands what the debate was 
all about. Ironically, he has taken the side of the Southern 
States, the Convention. They wanted a full count of every slave 
that they held in order to add to their congressional 
representation. It was the antislavery States that objected. 
They argued that those were held in bondage should not be 
counted at all in the apportionment of congressional seats, not 
because they were not human beings but precisely because they 
were, and that the Constitution should not reward the slave 
States with representation in Congress while those States 
denied these people their freedom. So, the three-fifth 
provision was not a statement that slaves were three-fifths of 
a person; it was the result of a compromise necessary to bring 
into existence our new Nation, as Lincoln said, dedicated to 
the proposition that all men are created equal.
    Ironically, Stephen Douglas would agree with Chair's 
narrative that the principles of the Declaration of 
Independence and the Constitution, which gave them life, were 
only meant for White people. That is exactly the position that 
Stephen Douglas took. Of that position, Lincoln said this 
during their debate at Alton, he said: ``At Galesburgh the 
other day, I said, in answer to Judge Douglas that 3 years ago 
there never has been a man so far as I knew or believed in the 
whole world who had said that the Declaration of Independence 
did not include Negroes in the term `all men.' I reassert it 
today. I assert that Judge Douglas and all his friends may 
search the whole records of the country, and it will be a 
matter of great astonishment to me if they shall be able to 
find that one human being 3 years ago had ever uttered the 
astounding sentiments that the term `all men' in the 
Declaration did not include the Negro. I believe the first man 
whoever said it was Chief Justice Taney in the Dred Scott 
decision. The next to him was our friend Stephen A. Douglas. 
Now, it has become a catch word of the entire party. When this 
new principle, this new proposition that no human being ever 
thought of 3 years ago was brought forward, I combat it as 
having an evil tendency if not an evil design,'' end quote.
    In fact, in his Cooper Union speech a year and a half 
later, Lincoln systematically dismantled this argument by 
tracing the votes of every one of the American Founders who 
consistently opposed slavery whenever the issue arose. He 
meticulously documented that their vision was of a Nation of 
free men and women of all races and religions together enjoying 
the blessings of liberty and the equal protection of our laws.
    That vision was put in modern terms by Martin Luther King 
Luther to express the gold standard of racial harmony that we 
should be judged by the content of our character and not the 
color of our skin. It is the equal protection of the law and 
the vision of the American Founders, of Abraham Lincoln and 
Martin Luther King of a color blind society that is now 
directly under attack by measures like this.
    I can't imagine a more divisive, polarizing, or unjust 
measure that one that would by government force require people 
who never owned slaves to pay reparations to those who never 
were slaves based not on anything they had done, but because of 
what race they were born.
    Fortunately, we have a Constitution that forbids such an 
injustice. Some of those provisions were won by hundreds of 
thousands of Americans like my ancestor James H. Ewing of the 
Third Iowa Volunteer Infantry Regiment. He was 24 years old 
when he was killed on April 6, 1862, at Pittsburg Landing on 
the first day of what became known as the Battle of Shiloh. In 
the words of his brother, James gave up his life at the Battle 
of Shiloh fighting to save our free government.
    Yes, there are racists in our society. There are racists of 
all colors in every society. It is the baser side of human 
nature. No Nation has struggled harder to transcend that nature 
and isolate and marginalize its racists than have Americans. 
Racism is the practice of according rights and privileges not 
based on equality under the law but, rather, according to what 
race a person was born. The measure before us today exemplifies 
that practice, and Lincoln was right. It is evil in both its 
tendency and its design.
    With that, I will yield to my friend, Larry Elder, for any 
closing thoughts he might have.
    Mr. Elder. Congressman, thank you so much. I agree, of 
course, with everything you say. Congressman Cohen did 
completely butcher the three-fifths argument, and thank you for 
correcting the record. He also referred to a civil rights 
warrior named Bayard Rustin. Bayard Rustin was an acolyte of 
Martin Luther King. Bayard Rustin was both Black and gay and 
did not support race-based preferences.
    The Urban League at the time was run by Whitney Young. 
Whitney Young supported a 10-year period of time where he 
argued for a Marshall Plan for Black people. Again, 10-year 
period of time. This is 1965, so it would have long since been 
over had the board approved it, but they didn't.
    One board member said: Are you crazy? Here we are telling 
America to be fair and you are telling, quote, ``us--telling 
Americans to,'' quote, ``hire Negroes just because they are 
Negroes,'' close quote. We oppose it.
    So, this is completely divisive, and I want to quote 
somebody who once was asked about reparations, and he said 
this, and I am quoting: ``It is easy to make that theoretical 
argument, but as a practical matter, it is hard to think of any 
society in human history in which a majority population has 
said that, as a consequence of historic wrongs, we are now 
going to take a big chunk of that Nation's resources over a 
long period of time to make that right,'' end of quote.
    He said: ``As a practical matter, it is virtually 
impossible to do.''
    That gentleman was Barack Obama, and he was right.
    I also heard one of the witnesses refer to the belief that 
White people are superior and their belief that Black people 
are inferior. Well, they can believe what they want to believe, 
but the facts are that young Black people have higher self-
esteem than do young White people, and much higher self-esteem 
than do young Asian people.
    So, if the argument is that historical discrimination and 
Jim Crow has somehow called Blacks to think of themselves as 
less than Blacks, it ain't working. Blacks have higher self-
esteem than virtually any other race in America.
    Also, a couple times the police have been hammered. Let me 
just mention that a few days ago, a man was in his backyard 
minding his own business. Apparently he fit the description 
of--
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The gentleman's time has expired. Thank 
you.
    Now, it is my pleasure to recognize a new member of this 
committee, an outstanding new member from North Carolina. I 
recognize the gentlelady, Ms. Ross, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you so much, Representative Jackson Lee, 
and thank you for your leadership on this issue.
    I am from North Carolina, and I have a background working 
on civil rights issues here in North Carolina. We heard a lot 
today about the history of slavery, the history of racism. I 
can tell you that our work is not done.
    I want to give a short shout-out to North Carolina, though, 
because it is one of nine States that has issued a formal 
apology for slavery, and it is one of the States that in a 
bipartisan way has come up with reparations for forced 
sterilizations.
    So, as we think about the history of racism and slavery in 
this country, we have to have a conversation about the truth of 
the past, about the harms that have been inflicted, and about 
the appropriate way for all of us to go forward.
    I don't believe that this particular resolution prescribes 
a way of going forward, but it is a conversation about what we 
need to do. Just as we did in North Carolina when we passed a 
bill compensating people for forced sterilization, a terrible, 
terrible chapter in our history that is not just in North 
Carolina's history, I think we need to think long and hard 
about how we address our history, how we address the harms, and 
how we can move forward together.
    There has been some divisiveness. There is divisiveness 
throughout our country. There is a clear division of opinion. I 
would like to bring us together and think about what we can all 
agree on going forward.
    We have been able to do that in a couple of ways in North 
Carolina. We have been able to do that on racial profiling, we 
have been able to do that on innocence issues, and, again, on 
compensation for forced sterilization.
    So, I am hopeful that we will be able to do that as a 
congressional body, too. Again, I thank Representative Jackson 
Lee for her leadership and for having us start this discussion 
in the 117th Congress.
    Thank you so much.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Let me thank Congresswoman Ross for 
recounting the history of North Carolina so eloquently and 
bringing to our attention, of course, the forced sterilization 
and, in essence, the repairing of that heinous Act to the 
extent that individuals were compensated.
    Let us be very clear, the commission on H.R. 40 is a 
commission to fact find, repair, restore, and develop proposals 
for reparations that, as Mr. Howard's testimony indicates, 
takes many, many perspectives.
    Thank you so very much.
    I want to make sure, is Mr. Jordan here? Thank you.
    Then I will call on Mr. Johnson, Mr. Mike Johnson of 
Louisiana, the Ranking Member.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you.
    You are yielded for 5 minutes. Thank you so very much. Glad 
you are here.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Thank you for doing that. Thank 
you.
    I appreciate all of the witnesses' time today, and also Mr. 
Burgess Owens for standing in for me. I have had intermittent 
internet and power here in Louisiana as you all have in Texas.
    A couple of questions real quick. Mr. Herschel Walker has 
not had an opportunity to speak up here in the last part of 
this hearing, if he is still with us. I just wanted to pitch it 
to him and give him an opportunity to see if there was anything 
that has been said so far the last couple of hours here that he 
wanted to respond to.
    Mr. Walker?
    Mr. Walker. Yes, I would like to respond. I want to thank 
Ms. Jackson Lee. I would like to ask, does she know the year of 
those pictures?
    The reason I ask that is whenever I get on a subject I do 
facts-finding myself, and one of the things I looked up and I 
asked my mom is how many African American was alive today that 
was in slavery, which was none.
    So, I go to some of the older people for experience, and I 
remember my mom mentioning, how could we pay for your great-
great-grandfather being burned to death? Or how could you pay 
for your great-great-uncle being hung?
    I understand that those pictures are horrible, but right 
now I think the facts-finding is going to be very difficult to 
go back over history when history is not even taught in school 
on what we are trying to facts-find.
    That is why it is so difficult, because as I was looking up 
reparation, which I have been doing for the last year, it is 
very, very difficult to find facts on different things of the 
African-American history. I think that is what is going to be 
very difficult in what we are doing right now.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. I appreciate that response.
    Let me ask you, I know you are passionate about this and 
you give a lot of motivational speeches to young people and all 
that. Are there better ways that you think to uplift minority 
communities and provide opportunities for success than this 
idea of direct payments of taxpayer dollars? I mean, just in 
general, what do you say to young people to inspire them in 
that way?
    Mr. Walker. One of the things I say to young people to 
inspire them is, first of all, and I say, the hard truth is, 
and I say this, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but I say 
the African-American community has to come together as a group 
to take care of our own. That is one of the biggest problems we 
have, we will not take care of our own.
    I said, we cannot, as myself, who grew up in south Georgia, 
leave that community and leave all the African-American kids 
behind without inspiring them that they can be me. I think the 
way we do this is we get back to remembering where we came 
from.
    You have to be responsible. A lot of things we mentioned 
today, no one talked about responsibility. I am from the Deep 
South. I know about racism. A matter of fact, we talked about 
the health, everyone thinks I am healthy, but I was diagnosed 
at one time as mentally unhealthy because of being bullied as a 
little kid, because of my weight and because of my speech.
    The things that happened to me was dealing with race. I 
overcame through education, which is one of the major things 
that I talk to the young people today, is education is more 
important than anything in life, because when you educate 
yourself, you are able to see the truth for yourself.
    I am not saying that--I think H.R. 40 is absolutely 
incredible, but I think the facts-finding is very difficult. 
Facts-finding of reparation, I think it is a little bit--I am 
confused at the two right now.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Very good. I have got 34 seconds 
left. Let me turn to Mr. Elder, real quick.
    You touched on and began to explain the difference between 
equal rights and equal results, and I think a lot of people are 
confused about that. I just wonder, in the last 20 seconds or 
so, if you want to articulate a little bit more about the 
difference between the two.
    Mr. Elder. Well, it is really about what Herschel Walker 
just now said. It is about personal responsibility.
    There are think tanks on the left, like the Brookings 
Institution, and think tanks on the right, like the American 
Enterprise Institute, and they agree that the way to escape 
poverty is to do a handful of things:

        1. Finish high school.
        2. Don't have a kid until you get married.
        3. Get a job, keep a job, and don't quit that job until 
        you get another job.
        4. Void the criminal justice system.

    They don't say that this formula only applies to you if you 
are White. They say this formula applies to anybody.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Very good.
    I yield back, Madam Chair. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you so very much. Your time has 
expired.
    I think to Mr. Walker and Attorney Elder, that is exactly 
what H.R. 40 is, to delve into the facts, to connect the 
history.
    I would only say that there is something to the heinous, 
vile, and vicious Act of slavery that the descendants of 
enslaved Africans and those slaves experienced uniquely in this 
country. We are grateful that we have 300 organizations that 
are supporting that concept, but the fact-finding of H.R. 40 is 
just what is its task, to respond to the concerns that have 
been expressed.
    I would ask unanimous consent to submit into the record the 
letter from the LCCR, and we thank them for that letter.
    [The information follows:]

      

                MS. JACKSON LEE FOR THE OFFICIAL RECORD

=======================================================================

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Ms. Jackson Lee. I am delighted now to recognize Mr. 
Johnson for 5 minutes, the gentleman from Georgia.
    Mr. Johnson, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. I thank the gentlelady for the time 
and for the introduction of this very important legislation.
    To my friend, Tom McClintock, who has a revisionist 
understanding of the three-fifths compromise, I would want to 
set the record straight that the three-fifths compromise was a 
way of counting slaves for purposes of apportioning how many 
seats in the U.S. House of Representatives the Southern States 
would get.
    Of course, those three-fifths of human beings did not have 
the rights of human beings, they were just counted for purposes 
of human beings, but even then it was a discount, three-fifths. 
They were treated as slaves, even less than three-fifths of a 
person.
    To my friend, Mr. McClintock, I am so happy that you can 
track your forebearers all the way back and beyond probably 
1861, but that was at a point where our Black families had been 
torn apart. We can't go back. I can't go back and trace the 
lineage of my family further than about the 1880s, and even 
then it is not certain.
    So, you are so fortunate as a White male to be able to 
track your people all the way back probably into the 1700s, 
maybe even earlier than that. You have no idea how hurtful it 
is for the Black psyche to not have a sense of our history 
further back than it is reported by White folks who get it 
wrong to keep us misunderstanding of our value to society. I 
can't express to you the psychological wounds that still exist 
that H.R. 40 would help to get at.
    Attorney Elder, in your response to a question from 
Congressman Owens you mentioned Professor Gates at Harvard 
University, so I assume that you are familiar with Professor 
Charles Ogletree, the esteemed African-American professor at 
Harvard Law School, are you not? Are you familiar with him?
    Mr. Elder. I am aware of who he is, yes.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Professor Ogletree is a prominent 
advocate for reparation, and he has stated, quote, ``The 
reparation movement should not focus on payments to 
individuals. The damage has been done to a group. But the 
damage has not been done equally within the group. The movement 
must therefore focus on the poorest of the poor. It must 
finance social recovery for the bottom-stuck, providing an 
opportunity to address comprehensively the problems of those 
who have not substantially benefited from integration or 
affirmative action.''
    My question, Attorney Elder: Do you agree that there are 
Black folks in America who are stuck at the bottom due to the 
legacy of racism, slavery, and Jim Crow, and that America 
should take affirmative action to address employment, 
healthcare, housing, and educational disparities that plague 
our people to this day?
    Mr. Elder. Congressman Johnson, thank you very much for the 
question.
    Obviously, there are Black people who are poor. The extent 
to which the poverty is a result of slavery and Jim Crow is 
tenuous at best. The larger factor behind Black poverty is the 
absence of fathers in the home, as I mentioned earlier.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Okay. Well, let me stop you right 
there, because I do understand.
    Mr. Howard, what is your response to my question?
    Mr. Howard. Well, certainly there is a direct contribution, 
direct connection, as Mr. Elder talked about fatherless homes. 
We see that in the Illinois Transatlantic Slave Trade 
Commission, the only slave trade commission in the country.
    In 2005, an economist Linwood Tauheed stated that Black--he 
found out that Black men married at the same rate as White men, 
at the same rate as Hispanic men, and the rate in which they 
married was determined by their labor force participation. So, 
where you had 90 percent labor force participation, the 
marriage rate would be anywhere from 8 to 15 points below the 
labor force participation.
    So, when you come forward to now where you have less than 
50 percent labor force participation among Blacks because of 
this discrimination, because of racism, because of the separate 
development, the apartheid of Jim Crow, you have this 50 
percent labor force participation in major cities in America, 
you are going to have a 15 to 8 percent lag in two-parent 
families, and that is exactly what you have.
    So, when Mr. Elder talks about the fatherless homes and the 
destruction of Black families, it is directly related to the 
inherent anti-Blackness that this country is built upon and 
that we still suffer from today and what H.R. 40 must address.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you.
    Professor Achiume, a recent Harvard study suggests that 
reparations could provide health benefits for not only Black 
Americans, but for the entire Nation. How can reparations 
eliminate health disparities among Black Americans? What would 
these remedies look like?
    Ms. Achiume. Thank you very much for your question. I think 
this is why the bill is so important, is because it provides an 
opportunity to study exactly answers to questions such as that 
and to draw on comparative experiences of other countries.
    So, for example, Colombia had one of the most ambitious 
reparations program that we are aware of in different parts of 
the country, and part of that reparations program included 
providing healthcare to people who have suffered extreme human 
rights violations.
    So, I would say reparations can play a role in addressing 
health disparities because they are about undoing structures of 
injustice, including structures of racial injustice that 
produce health disparities.
    I would say that in terms of the concrete solutions that 
would be relevant in the United States, the most advisable 
thing would be to pursue exactly what I think this bill is 
trying to push for, which is an in-depth study that would allow 
for responses that would be tailored to different local 
contexts.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you.
    Mr. Walker, does it surprise you to learn that H.R. 40 does 
not include a proposal to make cash payments to Black people in 
America?
    Mr. Walker. Well, I never thought H.R. 40 when I read was 
just about the payment to Black Americans. I said--
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Well, that is what you said in your 
statement.
    Mr. Walker. Yes, I said that was part of it in my 
statement, but I also said education, which in the past we have 
not taught Black America, giving them a good education. Which 
when Ms. Jackson Lee spoke, this is a facts-finder, which is 
one of the questions I put within my statement, that payment is 
just one part of what reparation is. It is education--
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Well, it is not--
    Mr. Owens. Point of order. Point of order, please. Point of 
order.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. --payments to individual Black 
people.
    With that, I will yield back. I am out of time.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Let me call on the next member. Is Mr. Roy present?
    Ms. Fischbach?
    Ms. Fischbach. Yes, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Ms. Fischbach.
    Ms. Fischbach. Can you hear me?
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Yes. Ms. Fischbach, you are recognized. 
The gentlelady from Minnesota is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Fischbach. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you.
    Ms. Fischbach. I would like to yield my time to 
Congresswoman Owens for however much he may use.
    Mr. Owens. I would like to--
    Ms. Jackson Lee. The gentleman from Utah is--and I stand 
corrected. I think I might have said Colorado earlier, Mr. 
Owens. Those are beautiful States. I know you want to be from 
Utah. You are recognized for the time the gentlelady has 
yielded to you, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you so much for that. I appreciate it.
    I would like to just ask Mr. Elder if he has any comments 
to say in response to Representative Hank Johnson's question 
that he had asked earlier. I would like to continue his 
conversation about that.
    Mr. Elder. I do. We have been talking about disparate 
outcomes as if the disparate outcomes by definition mean 
racism.
    There was a young attorney named Barack Obama who joined 
with other attorneys and filed a class action lawsuit against 
Citibank some years ago. As a result of the class action 
lawsuit, the Citibank agreed to grant mortgages to 186 people 
who had applied, been turned down, and the applicants argued 
that they were turned down because they were Black.
    Well, they got the loans and virtually nobody was able to 
keep up with the loans. Many of them went into default, which 
indicated that the bank was not discriminating against these 
would-be Black borrowers.
    Also, studies have found that community Black banks often 
have a higher turndown rate for would-be borrowers than the 
majority banks because they are more thinly capitalized.
    So, just because something has a disparate outcome does not 
mean that that outcome was the result of racism.
    We have also talked a lot about the police officers. A few 
days ago, as I started to say, a man was in the backyard of his 
own house matching the description of a suspect who was running 
on foot, a police officer chasing mistook the homeowner for the 
suspect, shot and killed him.
    I doubt that very many people know about this, and the 
reason you don't know about it is because the cop who shot the 
suspect was White, the suspect was White. This took place in 
Idaho. Therefore, nobody gave a rip. I assure you if this had 
been a Black suspect and a White cop, we would know his name.
    The fact is there are more unarmed White people killed 
every year by the police than unarmed Blacks. The media 
couldn't care less, CNN couldn't care less, giving Black people 
the false impression that the police are mowing down Black 
people just because they are Black.
    It is true that the police are two and a half times more 
likely to kill a Black suspect. It is also true that a young 
Black man is anywhere from 7 to 10 times more likely to be a 
victim of a homicide, almost always the victim at the hands of 
another young Black man. That is why the cops are there. The 
idea that there is systematic racism against Black people is a 
lie.
    When it came to the election, the defenders of Biden were 
arguing: Where is the widespread evidence of voter fraud? A 
fair question. Where is the wide--forget about widespread. 
Where is the evidence of police brutality against Black people? 
If anything, the evidence shows the police are more hesitant, 
more reluctant to pull the trigger on a Black suspect than a 
White suspect. It is a fraud, it is a con that is pushed upon 
this country, and we need to stop it.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you.
    To go to Mr. Walker. What is the message that you would 
give today to young Black boys and girls that is different than 
the message that you received when you were coming up in the 
days of true racism back in Georgia?
    Mr. Walker.
    Mr. Walker. The message I would give today is 
responsibility. You have to be responsible.
    That is one thing that I learned from my parents, is 
responsibility. To get back to--
    Mr. Owens. Sorry. For 1 second. Someone has to mute your--
can somebody please mute your--this is another hearing. Okay.
    Okay. I don't know, is there anything we can do about that, 
guys, to mute the background?
    Ms. Garcia. It sounds like another hearing.
    Mr. Owens. Okay. Mr. Chair, is there anything we can do 
about that or do we just kind of have to wade through it?
    Voice. It looks like somebody took care of it now. Go 
ahead.
    Mr. Owens. Okay. Good. All right.
    Mr. Walker, I am sorry. Please continue, Mr. Walker.
    Did we lose him?
    Mr. Cohen. [Presiding.] I am going to jump in here for a 
minute. I have been on the hearing, and I appreciate Ms. 
Jackson Lee chairing.
    I haven't kept up with the time. Where are we on the time 
on Mr. Owens? Can staff tell us?
    Mr. Owens, do you know? I don't have the timer.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. One minute, Mr. Chair, and 3 seconds.
    Mr. Cohen. All right. Mr. Owens, continue. Thank you.
    Mr. Owens. Okay. All right.
    Well, let me just ask, because--is Mr. Walker still there? 
If not, I will just give back my time to--
    Mr. Walker. Yes, I am here.
    Mr. Owens. Okay. Please finish up.
    Mr. Walker. I will go back to Ms. Jackson Lee, who said 
that we are in a facts-finding. I go now to, as Representative 
Johnson was speaking, facts-finding is where is the education 
for African Americans, at the same time we are facts-finding of 
why there are serious Black-on-Black crime, because within my 
neighborhood where I grew up, I don't experience that in 
Wrightsville, Georgia, but in Atlanta, Georgia, or in other 
large cities, that is one of the facts that I would love to 
solve, to stop the Black-on-Black crime.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you. I yield back my time. Thank you.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Mr. Owens.
    Thank you, Ms. Jackson Lee, for chairing the Committee 
while I was gone. We had an organizing Committee meeting of 
Natural Resources, and if you don't get there and get to pick 
your committees, you are shut out for 2 years. But, I have 
listened to most of the Committee at the same time, and so I 
have listened to Mr. Elder and I have listened to Mr. Walker 
and I listened to Congressman McClintock and all, and I 
appreciate the testimony.
    Thank you, Ms. Jackson Lee.
    I think Ms. Garcia is next.
    Ms. Garcia, from your motel room, you are recognized.
    Ms. Garcia. Actually, sir, it is a hotel.
    Mr. Cohen. Sorry.
    Ms. Garcia. The best part is it is heated and I do have 
power here at this hotel. No water, though.
    Thank you again for holding this very important hearing.
    Thank you to all of the witnesses who have taken the time 
to come up here today.
    I am a very proud--and I am going to repeat that--proud 
original cosponsor of H.R. 40, because it is important that our 
Nation heals by finding the facts, understanding the lingering 
effects of slavery in the United States, and finding solutions, 
finding solutions to real conversation and dialogue, and for 
finding successful reparation programs.
    I want to repeat what Mr. Johnson mentioned earlier. There 
is nothing in this bill that talks about payments of checks or 
money to anyone. This is a commission to find the facts and 
bring us to full healing.
    H.R. 40 is a good first step, and I want to personally 
thank my colleague and fellow Houstonian, Sheila Jackson Lee, 
for bringing this bill forward and to working together with all 
of us to make sure that this can come to fruition.
    I also applaud the Biden-Harris Administration for 
continuing to outline its vision for advancing racial equality 
for all Americans who just want to live and breathe without 
fear.
    I, like many Americans and people around the world, 
witnessed a tumultuous period last year of civil unrest and 
racial injustice. While I am proud to have joined my Judiciary 
colleagues to swiftly pass the George Floyd Justice in Policing 
Act, it is clear that much more work needs to be done.
    Without question, history has taught us time and time again 
that our laws must boldly affirm that Black lives matter.
    History has also taught us that we are stronger when we 
unite. But, to do so we must first learn, educate, and 
eliminate the root causes of racial discrimination in order to 
form a more perfect Union. We cannot keep ignoring this as a 
country. We must act, and I urge everyone to support this bill.
    I want to also reemphasize something that Ms. Masaoka 
mentioned in her testimony, and I want to start my questions 
with her. She says in her written testimony that this would be 
a first step to justice and it would be also a first step for 
healing.
    It is interconnected, is it not, Ms. Masaoka?
    Ms. Masaoka. Yes. I think we didn't quite realize at the 
time how important the commission was for Japanese Americans in 
1981 because we really didn't know about the camp experience. 
We didn't hear the stories from our parents.
    So, for the people, as I said, to actually share their pain 
and their experiences, and for us, their children, to hear what 
they had to say and continue to hear what they have to say, it 
was a process.
    It was a process that--our community doesn't like to speak 
about pain. They didn't want those things to be brought out. 
But they did. We are still actually working on healing as a 
community, even 40 years later, from that. It opened the door, 
and it helped us to understand what happened and why our 
parents were the way they were, why we felt the way we did 
about ourselves, and why our children may also feel the way 
they do.
    So, yes, it was a first step towards healing.
    Ms. Garcia. Well, and I wanted to ask, Ms. Weber, in terms 
of the California commission, you say in your written testimony 
that you can't wait until the Federal Government does what we 
need to do. So California now has their bill in place.
    Do you think that other States need to do that to help 
build a bigger groundswell of support, or do you think that 
both can work parallel?
    Ms. Weber. I think they can work parallel, as we plan to do 
with regards to the Federal bill. No State should be held back 
because the Feds have not moved forward. This has been a very 
long journey of 40 years of trying to get this bill passed, 
H.R. 40, and through Congress. You are a much larger 
institution with a tremendously diverse population and being 
represented.
    In California we had really no opposition to forming a 
reparations commission. In fact, we had bipartisan support for 
it, and we have gotten overwhelming support from organizations 
and others who are eager for us to have a conversation about 
reparations, about the history of California, California's role 
in enslavement, and to begin to talk about addressing a lot of 
the issues that we face.
    We recognize the fact in California that slavery in itself 
has been so insidious that it has sometimes created issues. We 
mentioned that with the George Floyd issue in California, that 
because of what had happened with the lynchings and the 
burnings, we had pretty much seared the conscience of White 
America when it comes to the pain of African Americans. We have 
to basically recognize that fact, that we can actually see harm 
done, see the devastation, and not really respond to it as we 
do to other groups.
    I listened to the colleagues talk about unemployment and 
the unemployment statistics and how it has gone down. Well, 
anything that is large, when it moves, is going to have a 
greater percentage of movement than something that is small. 
So, if you have got unemployment of 3, 4, 5 percent in your 
State, and we have always had double-digit unemployment of 
African Americans in this country, well, when it moves, it is 
going to look significant. It is going to look like a 50 
percent drop. Yet, it is still a double-digit unemployment and 
an injustice that continues, as we recognize in California.
    So, we plan to move forward. We are moving forward. I 
shouldn't say we plan to. We are moving forward. We hope that 
at some point what we do will be informative to the Federal 
Government. But, obviously, if the Federal Government decides 
that it is going to do this, we hope to be able to complement 
it with what is happening in California, because California is 
so far away from the South we think that it doesn't have an 
impact and yet it really does.
    Ms. Garcia. Thank you.
    I see my time is up. So, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Ms. Garcia.
    Our next panelist is Cori Bush.
    Representative Bush, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Bush. Right. St. Louis and I thank you, Chair Cohen, 
for convening this important hearing.
    I want to say thank you to the leadership of Representative 
Sheila Jackson Lee on this. I really appreciate you.
    I come as one, but I speak as many. I bring with me today 
my family, James E. Bush, Vera Bush Whitley, Ulysses Blakney, 
Clifton Blakney, and generations of Black men and women who 
have labored on this land, who have fought for this country, 
and to whom our country is deeply indebted.
    My story is a story of survival. It is a story of my 
ancestors who were enslaved in Mississippi and South Carolina. 
It is a story of the great migration, the mass migration of 6 
million African Americans out of the rural South.
    When White farmers traveled to the West in search of land, 
they were granted 160 acres of free land through the Homestead 
Act. My family was denied the promise--denied the promise--of 
40 acres and a mule in the aftermath of the Civil War and the 
start of Reconstruction.
    My story is the story of a great-grandfather who served 
this country in World War I and a grandfather who served this 
country in World War II, only to be discarded by their 
government as they suffered through trauma and the wounds of 
war. When White solders came back from fighting abroad, they 
were given housing preferences and education subsidies. My 
grandfathers, Ulysses and Clifton Blakney, were denied those 
benefits.
    My story is a story of men and women who fled violence, who 
were stripped of their rights and protections, who were left 
out of GI Bills and New Deal subsidies. The violence my family 
withstood from one generation to the next was not isolated. It 
was systemic, it was structural, it was political, backed by 
legislation passed by this very body to deny descendants of 
enslaved people economic and social opportunity.
    Underlying the generational trauma and exploitation is a 
government that abandoned its role to protect its own citizens, 
a government that refused to even acknowledge the humanity of 
my ancestors, a government that to this day refuses to 
acknowledge or atone for the wrongdoings of White supremacist 
violence. The Federal Government must account for its ongoing 
role in perpetuating, supporting, and upholding White 
supremacy.
    Secretary Weber, as you mentioned, State governments and, 
in some instances, private institutions unjustly profited from 
the unpaid labor of descendants of enslaved people. Why is it 
still necessary for the Federal Government to play a central 
role in restoring the harm of slavery and its aftermath? What 
can the Federal Government learn from States' efforts?
    Ms. Weber. Well, clearly, the Federal Government oftentimes 
protects the laws in the various States that have been put 
forth. You have the ultimate authority to determine the 
legality of issues that are there. So, oftentimes we appeal to 
the Federal courts and, obviously, have those courts reject the 
issues and, therefore, perpetuate the kind of injustices that 
do continue to exist.
    The Federal Government has a significant role. The laws 
that were created in this land and endorsed by the Supreme 
Court, the separate but equal laws, all of those things, to 
enforce the kind of treatment and racism that exist, the 
refusal to basically try individuals who have engaged in 
lynching in this country, the violation of people's human 
rights.
    We have whole books with pictures of people who list 
individuals face forward, looking at you, knowing who they 
were, and no one has ever been tried for any of the lynchings 
found in the books that we have, enormous books, without 
sanctuary, where every example is an example of lynching that 
occurred face forward, where people who took pride and made 
postcards out of lynching that existed, and as a result, no one 
has ever been tried for any of those lynchings that were there.
    So, when we look at it, the Federal Government has a 
significant role to play. We hope that when we look at the 
things that are there, like the insurance industry is regulated 
by the Federal Government, it is regulated by States but also 
by the Federal Government, and so it condones the behavior and 
the discriminatory practices that existed in the various 
States.
    We hope in California to be able to demonstrate not only an 
ability to look at the injustices, to see what has occurred, 
but also to fashion a response to it that is deeper and long 
term.
    As pointed out, we have never talked about money; but, 
obviously, money isn't everything. It is not about giving 
money. It is about making sure that the programs that exist 
basically can effectively address this longstanding situation 
that has been in African Americans' life.
    So, the Federal Government has a significant role to play, 
and we hope in the States--and we will do our part as a State, 
as a large State with resources, to begin to address the issue. 
Others should also be looking carefully at themselves. Surely 
we hope that the Federal Government will support the efforts 
and the recommendations we make concerning what the States 
should do and maybe even the role the Federal Government should 
play in assisting the State in accomplishing its goal.
    Ms. Bush. That is my time. Thank you, and I yield back.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Representative Bush.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    First, I want to say that what I mentioned earlier in my 
testimony, in my first 5 minutes, I mentioned seeing these 
movies that were Chadwick Boseman's movies. I mentioned the one 
about Thurgood Marshall and how awful Thurgood Marshall was 
treated by racists, and his legal partner, Mr. Friedman, by 
anti-Semites. I thought about it, and I missed the main point 
of the movie.
    The defendant in the case was treated the worst of all. He 
was illegally charged with rape because he was an African-
American worker for a prominent socialite woman, which they had 
consensual sex. For an insightful moment by Thurgood Marshall, 
he would have been probably sentenced to death.
    That happened so many times in our country's history but 
for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and Thurgood Marshall, which 
should have been the cause of the United States Government and 
the Justice Department, but it wasn't. The Justice Department 
for African Americans was Thurgood Marshall and the NAACP Legal 
Defense Fund.
    Mr. Hilary Shelton of the NAACP, I want to ask you a 
question. We had Mr. Ta-Nehisi Coates testify in our last 
hearing, and he said at that hearing 250 years of slavery, 90 
years of Jim Crow, 60 years of separate but equal, 35 years of 
racist housing policies, until we reckon with our compounding 
moral debts, America will never be whole.
    Yet, many of my colleagues across the aisle agree with the 
sentiment captured in remarks by Senate Minority Leader Mitch 
McConnell, who said, quote, ``I don't think reparations for 
something that happened 150 years ago from none of us currently 
living or responsible is a good idea. We tried to deal with our 
original sin of delivery by fighting a Civil War, by passing 
landmark civil rights legislation. We elected an African-
American President''--who he tried to defeat from day one.
    My own response to Mr. McConnell's remarks is that African 
Americans have had to struggle to obtain what for others has 
been unquestionably understood as a God-given right. Just like 
Ms. Bush mentioned when her ancestors came home from the war, 
they didn't get things that were given to White men who fought 
for our country and women who fought for our country, White 
veterans. African Americans didn't get that. They were God-
given rights to everybody else but not for African Americans. 
They had to depend on legal actions and protests and 
legislation.
    In light of that argument, did social and economic 
discrimination, Mr. Shelton, against African Americans abruptly 
end with the Civil War or abruptly end with the civil rights 
legislation passage or at the election of Barack Obama?
    Why should Federal or State governments bear any 
responsibility for the economic and social damages imposed on 
descendants of the enslaved, Mr. Shelton?
    Is Mr. Shelton not with us? If not, I will answer my own 
question.
    It did not end with the Civil War. It did not end with 
Baker v. Carr. It did not end with Republicans like Everett 
Dirksen, Charles Percy, William Schaeffer, Nelson Rockefeller, 
Wayne Morse, and George Romney. It did not end. It continues. 
It continues to this day, discrimination against people in 
economic terms, in social terms, with health deserts and food 
deserts, and people who don't care. Benign neglect at best, it 
can be said.
    The fact is we have a problem in this country, and we need 
to deal with it, and we need to make amends. Reparations is not 
necessarily money, as Mr. Johnson pointed out. It is a study.
    It is not just slavery, which some of the witnesses have 
talked about, nobody here alive, there are no slaves alive. It 
is about slavery and the consequences of slavery. It is about 
Jim Crow and what happened through Jim Crow and separate and 
unequal, Plessy v. Ferguson, that bled into this country's core 
and was not challenged by most people.
    I have seen it when I was a young person in Memphis. I saw 
discrimination, and I couldn't understand it. The first hero I 
had was an African-Cuban baseball player, Minnie Minoso, who 
befriended me when nobody else did when I had polio and was on 
crutches and trying to get autographs at a ballgame, and he 
befriended me. I went to my dad, I was just 6 years old, the 
nicest guy, the only guy that put his hands, heart out to me 
was the Black player, the only one, and people didn't get it. 
It has been for years.
    We have a problem in this country which we need to study. 
As Charles Ogletree said, it could be programs that are good 
for people beyond Black people but other people who have been 
systematically oppressed or not given opportunities. We should 
not fear a study, and it does not deal simply with slavery. It 
deals with the aftereffects of slavery and what that has done 
to the American society and the American soul.
    As far as what I said about the three-fifths compromise, I 
was right. It was using Black people for the political power of 
southerners who wanted to have that power mostly to keep 
slavery legal. So, their use was being perpetuated against them 
in the Halls of Congress to keep slavery and keep them in 
bondage.
    So, yes, we needed a war because the South left the country 
over slavery, and that is exactly what happened, and we are 
still dealing with it, and we need to have a study of what we 
can do to give people a proper share at the table.
    In football terms, it is like getting to the 3-yard line 
and you think you have got a chance to score. The White team is 
on the 3-yard line. They are in the red zone all the time. The 
Black team has been for years back on the other 3-yard line 
with 97 yards to go, and nobody cared. They got to play with 
inferior uniforms, they got to play without helmets, and they 
got to play without technological advances, to have coaches up 
in the stands to tell them what to do.
    They were on the 3-yard line and they want to keep them 
there. The other team had helmets and shoulder pads and all 
kind of walkie-talkies to know what the other team was planning 
to do and keep them on the 3-yard line, and we want to say it 
is all equal, it is all fair, let's just start now. You can't 
do that. It is patently unfair.
    With that, I want to yield the remainder of my time and 
whatever other time she needs to Congresswoman Sheila Jackson 
Lee.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Chair, I think you have eloquently 
crafted what we are doing today.
    I wanted to personally thank each and every witness for 
their stupendous testimony.
    H.R. 40 is large enough and right enough to be able to hear 
from Mr. Walker and Attorney Elder. It will be able to hear 
from a potpourris of voices. That is what H.R. 40, the 
Commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals, is all 
about.
    So, I want to be able to try to capture, Mr. Chair, where 
we are going and why it is important to go.
    Thank you for the historical perspective of Mr. Johnson and 
yourself about the three-fifths. Might I add one other point? 
The three-fifths was in the Constitution. Was any other race of 
people listed as three-fifths in the constitutional document?
    So, when this precious document was formulated that has 
given us this wonderment of democracy, then we, descendants of 
enslaved Africans, were not a whole person. The reason, of 
course, is the North didn't want the South to overseed them 
with Members in the United States Congress. It seems 
interesting that we are facing that aggravation even today.
    Let me give you these stark points so that you can 
understand when I held up the pictures of those who had been 
harmed. It is the very point that we are making. They were in 
the late 1800s and in the 20th century. That is the concept of 
which H.R. 40 is based on, the continuing disparities and 
violence against African Americans and other indigenous people.
    When the question was asked about other people, I know from 
my grandmother, when you lift one boat, you lift all boats.
    My father, Ezra Jackson, was the baby son of my widowed 
grandmother. Three uncles went to World War II. I can assure 
you, when they came back, they did not have access to the GI 
Bill. They were redlined. They, frankly, went home to live with 
Mother.
    The youngest son was a brilliant cartoonist, an artist. He 
was asked to work for the major cartoons, comics on Madison 
Avenue in New York. When the White soldiers came home, this 
young man was relieved of his dream and never again for another 
30 years was able to work back in that industry. He was 
summarily fired because of his skin color.
    So, H.R. 40 is the presence of a continuing sting of 
disparities. It is the evidence of the fact that school 
populations of Black and Brown children receive $23 billion 
less in funding than White school districts. It is the evidence 
that end-of-life care for Black Americans is $7,100 more 
expensive for Black individuals. It is the fact that Black 
people are more than six times as likely as White people to 
languish behind bars for possessing drugs for personal use, 
even though Black and White people use drugs the same. In fact, 
the concept of mass incarceration was on the backs of Black men 
and women in the State and Federal prisons.
    So, I just want to raise this question with Ms. Masaoka, 
because we thank the Japanese Americans for their strong 
support of H.R. 40. We apologized to them for the unnatural 
internment that they faced in the 1940s of patriotic Japanese 
Americans. We have received 300 letters from Japanese Americans 
in support of H.R. 40. We are aware of the fact that Japanese 
Americans under a Republican President had the Civil Liberties 
Act, which was signed into law by President Reagan, and 
received a reparation.
    Would you share with us the fact that this legislation, 
H.R. 40, if I might use the term, is mainstream and is relevant 
to today as it was relevant to you and the Japanese Americans 
in 1988? Shortly thereafter, John Conyers introduced this bill, 
and I am glad in his leaving the Congress he was kind enough to 
pass to me his legacy and ask me to carry this bill.
    Ms. Masaoka, if I have got it right, would you share with 
that point about the support of Japanese Americans and these 
300 letters and the feeling that came over you in 1988 to 
receive the Civil Liberties Act signed by a Republican 
President?
    Ms. Masaoka. I think that our community mobilized very 
quickly to submit those 300 letters. I am really proud of our 
community because I think we understood and understand the 
lesson of redress and of the Civil Liberties Act, and that is 
solidarity with others.
    To communicate the fact that you said, yes, it is 
mainstream. We won redress in 1988, and we didn't think we 
could, but we did with support of the whole country, enough to 
pass. We thank the African-American community and other 
communities who came in solidarity with us.
    This government paid redress out of its Treasury to people 
that were victimized in 1942. So, it is something that can be 
done and should be done.
    We wholeheartedly support H.R. 40 and want to continue to 
support and see that it passes because it is the passage of the 
Civil Liberties Act of 1988 meant a lot to our community. It 
meant that we could hold our head up high, to say that our 
government apologized, was accountable, and that we were not--
it was an injustice, it acknowledged that, and continued to 
educate people today around that injustice.
    Thank you.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you.
    Let me have my last question to Ms. Heath.
    The Harvard study has reaffirmed the fact that documented, 
peer-reviewed document that indicated that, in fact, if 
reparations had been implemented before COVID-19 we might not 
have had this definitive and deadening and deadly imbalance.
    So, we know that, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, 
Black people get COVID-19 at a rate nearly one and a half times 
higher than that of Whites, are hospitalized at a rate of four 
times higher, and three times are likely to die from the 
disease.
    I would be interested, Ms. Heath, in how might the 
commission assess the impact of poor water, poor sanitation, 
healthcare infrastructure on African-American communities? 
Should there be a focus on environmental and health impacts on 
children?
    As you speak, I just want to again hold up the back of a 
slave that was brutally beaten by his master. So that pain, 
that brutality continues.
    Ms. Heath, would you answer that question, please?
    Ms. Heath. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman.
    You are absolutely right. Thank you for citing and lifting 
up the Harvard Medical research's study that reveals if 
reparations were administered, the gaps of infection as well as 
gaps would have been closed for the Black community, but more 
broadly for the U.S.
    I think that speaks largely to this stage of slavery and 
the denial of healthcare, which came in the institution of 
slavery, but thereafter in the form of other Federal policies, 
segregationist policies, such as redlining, which happened in 
239 cities across the U.S., which basically divided communities 
along race and class lines, and made those resources 
historically have been disinvested in those communities, 
particularly low-income and Black neighborhoods.
    So, we absolutely need to look at healthcare-specific 
reparations remedies. As you know, the same disease is going 
around and affecting all of us, but some of us are dying and 
being affected more, and that means we are looking at life 
expectancy rates within the U.S. and Black people being 4 years 
less likely to live.
    There is also rates of asthma, heatstroke, diabetes, 
obesity, maternal healthcare, and access to prenatal care that 
would help assist in terms of preventing preventable diseases 
and preventable deaths.
    So, that is why we need healthcare reparation specific, 
because Black people are living in poorer neighborhoods, 
attending lower-resource schools, as well as lower-quality 
healthcare facilities and hospitals with higher rates of 
ambulance use because there is no access to a broad range of 
practitioners that are dealing with these healthcare issues.
    So, there is going to have to be a wide range of look at 
discrimination as a result of several Federal government 
policies.
    Mr. Owens. Point of order. Point of order. The gentlelady 
from Texas has gone over her time, whatever time. Is it 
possible I could get 2 minutes to conclude also?
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Cohen, Chair Cohen, I--
    Mr. Cohen. Yeah, I have got a menagerie of devices here.
    Mr. Owens, you will be recognized for 2 minutes afterwards.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Cohen. Ms. Jackson Lee, are you about finished?
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Chair, Mr. Howard wanted to comment. 
Would you be kind enough to indulge Mr. Howard who wanted to 
comment?
    Mr. Cohen. I will indulge you. Thank you.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. All right. Thank you. I know Mr. Owens 
will have his time as Ranking Member.
    Mr. Howard, may I pose to you a question that responds 
directly to the picture that I am holding of a brutalized slave 
who shows the welts of the beating of their master. You note 
the term that I use, that that was the terminology that a slave 
was subjected to. They were the slave and then there were the 
masters, and that is what we had here in this country of which 
we have never received an apology or a response.
    I am going to yield to you and say we are not asking our 
neighbors to do anything. We are saying to the Federal 
Government that it was sanctioned. This is a legal commission. 
We will go through legal process of how we address these 
issues.
    Would you just address this? Then I will close. Mr. Howard, 
do you want to address this now?
    Mr. Howard. Thank you, Congresswoman Jackson Lee.
    That picture, most people may have seen that picture and 
some may have not, but that is a picture of a man by the name 
of Gordon. Gordon received that beating at the time of the 
Civil War. After he healed, he escaped enslavement and found 
his way to a Union Army camp, and it was there at that Union 
Army camp where that picture was taken after his examination to 
be enlisted into the Union Army to fight for the freedom of 4 
million other of his enslaved brothers and sisters who were 
enshackled in America.
    After joining the Union Army, Gordon went out on patrol and 
was beaten a second time and left for dead, but found his way 
back again to the Union Army and participated in one of the 
first major battles in Louisiana that was won by Black Union 
soldiers.
    So, it is in that spirit that we continue to struggle to be 
repaired today, in the spirit of Gordon, and I just wanted to 
lift up his name.
    Thank you, Congresswoman.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you.
    Let me conclude my remarks by thanking Secretary Weber, 
Professor Achiume, Mr. Howard, Ms. Masaoka, Ms. Heath, and Mr. 
Shelton, and conclude my remarks with these simple statements.
    We have a wonderful group of Members. I want to acknowledge 
Congresswoman Bush in my closing remarks, and the reason is 
because she had great experience in Ferguson. I went there when 
Michael Brown was brutally killed and racially profiled. It 
wasn't in 1855. It wasn't in 1822. It wasn't in 1799. It wasn't 
even in the 1950s. It was in the 21st century. Mr. Brown was 
racially profiled, a young man headed to college playing 
football, racially profiled.
    When we pierced the veil of that city, Ferguson, we found 
out that the whole community had been racially profiled. The 
whole city was basing its income, its revenue on fines and fees 
from African Americans, continuing disparities, and I say 
continuing remnants of slavery.
    So, I thank Congresswoman Bush for her leadership in that 
fight. I am glad she is here, but that is a very prime example 
of what continues to happen in the 21st century. I believe good 
Americans--and they are everywhere; this is a good country; it 
is a special country; it is a country that loves democracy; 
will welcome H.R. 40 and the healing reparative aspects of this 
commission, and so the final question to all of us is, why we 
can't wait?
    Robert F. Kennedy asked the question when he was asked: 
When people ask me why, I ask why not. That is what we are 
saying today. When people ask us why, I say, why not? When they 
ask us what time, I say, why we can't wait.
    I am delighted to have this opportunity.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Owens, you have been patient and if you would like 2 
minutes, 3 minutes, 4 minutes, even 5 minutes, you have got it. 
First down, 10 yards to go. You are recognized, Mr. Owens.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I love the football 
analogy. It is something I still relate to years later.
    First of all, I want to thank Mr. Elder and Mr. Walker for 
their time, and just give a minute or two, just to quickly--if 
you have any conclusions that you might want to give, so I can 
wrap this up on my side. Mr. Walker, first. Anything that you 
want to quickly add before we close us out.
    Mr. Walker still there?
    Okay.
    What about Mr. Elder? Is he still there?
    Mr. Elder. I am, and thank you so much. I do have a few--
    Mr. Walker. I am here now.
    Mr. Owens. Okay. All right. Go ahead, Herschel.
    Mr. Walker. I didn't hear your question, and I am in Texas, 
and I am in and out sometime.
    Mr. Owens. Just if you have any--like a minute conclusion, 
anything you just want to wrap up with before we close this 
out, Herschel.
    Mr. Walker. Well, I think I would like to know, yes, one of 
the major things I ask here is, as I said earlier, I think it 
is very, very important, but we go back to our Constitution 
where I asked the question, why have we not held our 
Constitution to what it promised to all men? I think that is a 
major question because that is a who, why, and who is 
responsible. I think once we can figure out who is responsible 
for not holding the Constitution to what it promised to the--to 
all men, we solve the problems, and we heal the Nation by 
healing all races, not just healing one. Because we demonize 
one group, and I think that is going to be--that is a problem. 
Because I do believe in forgiveness and going forward together, 
as Martin Luther King mentioned about brotherhood, kinship.
    Mr. Owens. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Walker.
    Mr. Elder.
    Mr. Elder. Just a few quick things. It has been mentioned a 
couple times that reparations are owed to Blacks for 400 years 
of slavery. Well, America was founded in 1787 and slavery ended 
in 1865, so that is substantially less than 400 years.
    It has also been mentioned that America has yet to atone 
for slavery. Well, remember that Lyndon Johnson launched the 
so-called war on poverty in 1965. He specifically talked about 
the need to redress past grievances for Blacks. Since then, we 
have spent over $22 trillion in payments to fight the so-called 
war on poverty.
    Also, Mr. Cohen mentioned the wonderful story about Minnie 
Minoso. I remember Minnie Minoso. He was a great ball player. I 
would like to give you a story too and conclude with this. I 
was in law school in 1974. In 1975, I am visiting my aunt who 
lives in Southfield, Michigan, right outside Detroit. She and I 
are talking. The doorbell rang. A gentleman comes. He is about 
40 years old, a friend of my aunt's. He came in, and he sat 
down as my aunt and I were talking. I was talking to my aunt 
about the classes I was taking, what I intended to do after I 
got out of law school. I looked up, and this 40-year-old Black 
man was crying. I thought maybe I had said something to offend 
him. I looked up, and I said, ``Excuse me. Did I say something 
that bothered you?'' He said, ``no, no, no. I just wanted to be 
a lawyer too, and I had the potential to do it. I didn't take 
responsibility. I got caught up in too much jack-assery, and I 
blew my opportunity.''
    I went to school with a lot of young Japanese kids, Korean 
kids, and Chinese kids. They all had something in common. They 
busted their butts in homework. You look at a graph of who does 
homework in America--Blacks are outdone by Hispanics, who are 
outdone by Whites, who are outdone by Asians.
    There is a reason that Japanese Americans, Chinese 
Americans, and Korean Americans make more money per capita than 
do White Americans. They work hard. They don't complain. They 
take responsibility, and I would urge all Americans to follow 
that example.
    Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you so much, Mr. Elder.
    I just want to wrap up with just a little bit of history 
real quick, guys. I was real blessed, again, to grow up in a 
household where my dad had returned from war. I am not sure 
what the other experiences were on the call here, but the 
experiences of my dad and his brothers was that they came back 
from war, and they were able to take advantage of the GI Bill.
    They actually--he came back. He could not get his post-
graduate degree in Texas, where we grew up, because of Jim Crow 
laws. I ran across a box of letters when he passed away 8 years 
ago of rejection letters across this country, but what that 
generation did, they looked at that kind of rejection as 
motivation. He continued until he got to Ohio State, where he 
got his Ph.D. in agronomy. His brother got his Ph.D. in 
economics. He went on, and 2 or 3 years later is in Africa 
doing a researcher.
    Now, I want to ask you, how many White Americans in middle 
of 1950s were living in Liberia, Africa? I was a 5-year-old kid 
at the time--with their parents doing research, traveling 
around the country. It is because that Nation, that generation 
took advantage of every opportunity they had, and they never 
felt sorry for themselves. They were out to win by commanding 
respect from those who needed to see them win.
    So, dad came back. He was 40 years of professor, Florida.
    A&M very successful entrepreneur, researcher, a great 
mentor, and the most important thing he taught us that you work 
hard, you work harder than the next guy, you start harder than 
the next guy, and you win in that process.
    That is the message we have to give. I would ask that our 
Congresswoman Jackson Lee, instead of showing something 200 
years ago, how about showing a picture of my dad, that 
generation of great men and women who really went through the 
toughest of time, grew up in the Depression, went through this 
true segregation, the KKK, and they did not let it stop them.
    They led our Nation, as I mentioned before, in all the 
categories of success because they understood that their kids 
deserved to see success to pass that bridge. We need to take 
the time instead of opening up past wounds, what is happening 
today to our kids? What are the policies that is happening in 
California that makes it such a high misery index in everything 
you can think of--education, families, and crime?
    California is a place that should be showing up all of us 
in terms of a liberal Democratic State of how the policies 
work. The policies are not working. At the end of the day, it 
is the policies that we have to look at, not the past. Because 
together we put the right policies where everybody has the same 
opportunities for life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, and 
we can show everyone how great our country has always been in 
terms of opportunities and where we are going in the future.
    So, please use my dad's picture, and I will send it to 
anyone who needs it in terms of what we are doing today, 
instead of what happened 200 years ago from strangers we don't 
know. He is an example. Larry's dad could say the same. I could 
go across the board. Anybody that grew up during the 1950s and 
1960s understands what the Greatest Generation looked like, and 
they were not people who felt sorry for themselves, and they 
would be upset to hear that they have been looked at as victims 
today because they were victors in a big way and a great 
example of what the American Dream is really all about.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Mr. Owens. I appreciate your 
testimony. I appreciate all the Members of the Committee and, 
particularly, the witnesses. They have given their 
perspectives. We have had a complete discussion of this issue 
and people supporting and against and for the reasons, and it 
is good that we have such hearings. I thank everybody for 
appearing. It is an important hearing.
    Without objection, all Members will have 5 legislative days 
to submit additional questions for the witnesses or additional 
materials for the record.
    With that, I declare this hearing concluded and adjourned.
    Bang. Done.
    [Whereupon, at 1:12 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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