[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
UNDERSTANDING THE FIGHT TO PROTECT LGBTQI
+ RIGHTS IN EUROPE AND EURASIA
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON EUROPE, ENERGY, THE ENVIRONMENT AND CYBER
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
June 11, 2021
__________
Serial No. 117-57
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://docs.house.gov,
or http://www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
44-805 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York, Chairman
BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey Member
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
KAREN BASS, California SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts DARRELL ISSA, California
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
AMI BERA, California LEE ZELDIN, New York
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas ANN WAGNER, Missouri
DINA TITUS, Nevada BRIAN MAST, Florida
TED LIEU, California BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania KEN BUCK, Colorado
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota MARK GREEN, Tennessee
COLIN ALLRED, Texas ANDY BARR, Kentucky
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan GREG STEUBE, Florida
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey PETER MEIJER, Michigan
ANDY KIM, New Jersey NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York
SARA JACOBS, California RONNY JACKSON, Texas
KATHY MANNING, North Carolina YOUNG KIM, California
JIM COSTA, California MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida
JUAN VARGAS, California JOE WILSON, South Carolina
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas RON WRIGHT, Texas
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
Jason Steinbaum, Staff Director
Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on Europe, Energy,the Environment and Cyber
WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts, Chairman
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania BRIAN FITZPATRICK,
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia Pennsylvania,Ranking Member
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey ANN WAGNER, Missouri
THEODORE DEUTCH, Florida ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois,
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island BRIAN MAST, Florida
DINA TITUS, Nevada DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas
JIM COSTA, California NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas PETER MEIJER, Michigan
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
LEAH NODVIN, Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESSES
Van Roozendaal, Bjorn, Programmes Director, ILGA-Europe.......... 6
Zakharova, Svetlana, Co-Secretary, ILGA-Europe Board Member,
Russian LGBT Network........................................... 13
Dombos, Tamas, Board Member, Hatter Society...................... 16
Emson, Dr. Lenny, Director, Kyivpride............................ 20
APPENDIX
Hearing Notice................................................... 35
Hearing Minutes.................................................. 36
Hearing Attendance............................................... 37
UNDERSTANDING THE FIGHT TO PROTECT LGBTQI+ RIGHTS IN EUROPE AND EURASIA
Friday, June 11, 2021
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Europe, Energy, the Environment,
and Cyber,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:07 a.m.,
via Webex, Hon. William R. Keating (chairman of the
subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Keating. Good morning, everyone.
And we would like to welcome our distinguish witnesses.
This month around the world we recognize Pride month, a
celebration that started as a protest to advance the rights of
the LGBTQI+ identifying people and ensure equal treatment under
the law.
In anticipation of this month, we organized this hearing
focused on the fight to protect these important civil rights in
Europe and Eurasia. Under the leadership of Chairman Meeks,
this will be the first hearing held by the House of
Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee focused solely on the
advancement of LGBTQI+ rights, but it will not be the last, and
it is built on the legislative work of many of my colleagues,
especially those on the subcommittee.
Representative David Cicilline, the chair of the
congressional LGBTQI+ Equality Caucus, has been leading the way
with legislation like the Equality Act and the Global Respect
Act. And Representative Titus has reintroduced the GLOBE Act
just this month. Importantly, later this month Chairman Meeks
will hold a hearing on LGBTQI+ rights globally.
All of these efforts are based on the belief in universal
rights for all people. I am proud to stand with the human
rights activists and defenders, fighting for this cause.
Indeed, as a result of the work of human rights groups around
the world, great strides have been made in the advancement of
equally rights for all people, including LGBTQI+ identifying
people. The European Union, along with our own country, are now
considered some of the most open and free places for LGBTQI+
identifying people to not only live but to prosper.
Now we, the United States, as an historic leader for human
rights globally, must make it clear that LGBTQI+ rights are
universal. And I commend the Biden Administration for making it
a U.S. policy to lead by the power of our example in the cause
of advancing this important human right to all people around
the world. For this reason we are here today to highlight and
uplift the voices of this community, a community that we
continue to tirelessly work with to pave the way toward
equality at home and abroad.
Unfortunately, in some countries in Europe and Eurasia,
this work is far from over and some LGBTQI+ communities
experience a range of discriminatory practices and outright
violence. For this reason I have called this hearing and
invited activists and experts on the ground in Europe and
Eurasia to speak to the challenges faced by LGBTQI+ community
members in the region and how the United States and its
partners can create and implement tangible change, change that
will protect these important human rights.
Inspired by initiatives like a resolution passed by the
European Parliament, declaring the European Union an LGBTQI+
Freedom Zone, this morning, with the support of many of the
members of the committee, I introduced a resolution that
underscores the right of the LGBTQI+ identifying people to
equal and unalienable human rights around the world including
Europe and Eurasia. We can and we must do much more to uphold
and promote the equal rights protection of these identifying
people so that they, too, can live prosperous, happy, and free
lives.
With that said, I would like to welcome the witnesses who
are joining us today. We are deeply grateful for your
willingness to share your knowledge and advice with the
Subcommittee to better inform us and all of the U.S. and our
transatlantic allies on important information and experiences
for the advancement of rights at home here and abroad.
I will now turn to the ranking member, Representative
Fitzpatrick, for his opening remarks.
Mr. Fitzpatrick. Thank you, Chairman Keating, and to our
friend and colleague, David Cicilline, and thanks to all the
witnesses here today.
And this is an incredibly important topic, one very
important to me, and it is also timely as June is Pride month
here in the United States.
And today we will discuss the LGBTQI+ rights in Europe and
Eurasia. I am sure our witnesses will discuss the progress that
has been made over the last few decades, as well as areas that
need immediate and decisive remedies. The Council of Europe
Steering Committee for Human Rights noted substantial progress
regarding the legal and social recognitions of the LGBTQI+
persons across its 47 member States over the last decade.
However, they also recognize that the wide variation in the
rights and protections lend itself to a myriad of challenges.
In a 2021 annual report by the counsel of Europe's
Commission Against Racism and Intolerance, officials warned of
a growing backlash against the protection of LGBTQI+ persons'
human rights. Oppressive political policies that target members
of the community like those in Russia are a strong indicator of
human rights abuses in civil society as well. When we see these
abuses, we have an obligation to take action.
Russian authorities destroyed families and stripped
adoptive parents of their children on mere suspicions. Human
rights monitors reported that in 2017 men were rounded up in
Chechnya based on their suspected sexual orientation and were
beaten and tortured, some to death. Human rights activists in
Russia have suffered wrongful imprisonment, physical assault,
and egregious intimidation by the State for standing up for
their friends and families.
These actions run contrary to our own nation's ideals of
tolerance and diversity. And in the face of hate-based
incidents, we must stand together, resolute in the pursuit of
justice. No person should ever feel threatened based on who
they are, what they believe, or who they love. Basic rights and
human dignity are at the core of American values, and it should
remain the top priority of our foreign policy objectives.
While we take this month to celebrate advancements made in
civil rights throughout the United States, we must work to
actively combat intolerance and stand together to promote
equality and dignity for all.
I will tell you I will continue to do so throughout my
tenure in Congress. I urge my colleagues on both sides of the
aisle to do the same, and I am glad this subcommittee has
recognized the value of this issue. I am grateful for our
witnesses being here and look forward to your testimony today.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Keating. I would like to thank the ranking member for
his remarks.
And I would like to now turn to Representative Cicilline,
the chair of the LGBTQI+ Equality Caucus, for a 3-minute
opening statement.
Representative Cicilline.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to you
and to the ranking member for calling this really important
hearing as we gather to reaffirm our commitment to advocate on
behalf of those that are increasingly persecuted and
marginalized because of who they, are who they love and how
they identify. Without that commitment, we risk not the rights
only of LGBTQI people, we risk not just democracy for LGBTQI+
people, we risk not just the safety and security of LGBTQI
people, we risk it for all people. As chair of the
congressional LGBTQ Equality Caucus, I hope today will serve as
a marker on a path back to American, European, and global
leadership on human rights for all.
Thirty years ago much of Eastern and Central Europe threw
off the shackles of oppression and chartered a future that
sought freedoms for all the people of Europe, the future in
which human rights and democracy would define a continent that
had been suppressed by the unrelenting despair of decades of
tyranny and oppression. For many that optimism has been
replaced by a sense of fear than even in parts of Europe today
they cannot truly be free from discrimination, persecution, or
violence.
In Poland, LGBTQI+ people must live in fear in LGBTQI+ free
zones that deny them their very humanity. In Hungary, Viktor
Orban scapegoats the LGBTQI+ community to continue his assaults
on the freedoms of Hungarian. In Ukraine, the future of
democracy and the rule of law is imperiled by the prospect of
Russian-backed legislation that would deny the rights of
Ukraine's LGBTQI+ population. In Chechnya, LGBTQI+ people must
live underground for fear of being abducted and tortured by
authorities.
It is perhaps unsurprising then that many of these States
are also democratic laggage that have seen basic civil
liberties like freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, and
the right to voice political opposition curtailed. The mistakes
some risk making is human regression of human rights of LGBTQI+
people in these States is an issue that affects just one group
of people. Our own recent history here in United States has
taught us that political opportunists will never stop finding a
new scapegoat.
So let us remind ourselves of fundamental truths. The
violence against any people because of who they are is a
violence against all people. An injustice against any people of
how they identify is an injustice against all people, that
discrimination against any person is intolerable and cannot
stand, and that equality is the indispensable tool for
advancing the rights of all peoples everywhere.
And, Mr. Chairman, with the legislation on the Global
Respect Act and the GLOBE Act, we can once again demonstrate
our commitment to leading on behalf of some of the world's most
vulnerable people. I thank you again for calling this hearing
and look forward to working with you, my colleagues on this
subcommittee, and all of our colleagues in the House to protect
the rights of a few so that we may protect the rights of all.
And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative Cicilline. Thank you
for your leadership.
I will now introduce our witnesses, and I thank you all for
being here today.
Bjorn van Roozendaal is the program director for ILGA-
Europe. Svetlana Zakharova is the co-secretary for ILGA-Europe
and a board member at the Russian LGBT Network.
Tamasmbos is a board member at the Hatter Society in
Hungary. And Dr. Lenny Emson is the director of the NGO Kyiv
Pride in Ukraine.
I will now recognize the witnesses for 5 minutes each. And,
without objection, your prepared written statements will be
made part of the record.
Mr. van Roozendaal, you are now recognized for your opening
statement.
STATEMENT OF BJORN VAN ROOZENDAAL, PROGRAMMES DIRECTOR, ILGA-
EUROPE
Mr. van Roozendaal. Thank you, Chairman Keating, for the
initiative of this hearing and thank you, Ranking Member
Fitzpatrick and Representative Cicilline, for all of the work
that you are doing in this area.
I appreciate the initiative for this hearing today and your
interest in the situation of LGBTI rights in Europe and Central
Asia. It comes as a critical time as, unfortunately, there is
widespread and almost complete stagnation on the human rights
of LGBTI people in the region. COVID-19 seems to have become an
excuse to expunge LGBTI rights in many countries. Let me give a
few examples.
Civil society space has been shrinking in countries like
Poland, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Turkey, often limiting
possibilities for LGBTI activists to exercise their human
rights work. Uzbeky government continues to penalize same-sex
conduct between men, and it is high time that the criminal law
is abolished.
The impact of anti-trans sentiments is unfortunately felt
across the region, not just only in Eastern Europe and Central
Asia but also in places where historically more progress on
LGBTI rights was made like the United Kingdom, as well as
Scandinavian countries. These sentiments are not just
conceptual debates on the notion of gender. Unfortunately they
deeply impact LGBTQI people in their everyday lives.
Organizations from across the region have reported over the
last year increasing hatred online but also in the streets.
While legal protections against violence and discrimination
exists in many countries, there unfortunately also remain too
many gaps. Hate crime laws are absent not just in countries
like Armenia and Slovenia but also in Germany and Ireland. And
we see the implementation of existing procedures on legal
gender recognition worsening including in places like Georgia,
Spain, and Serbia.
Distinguished members of this House, some countries in
Europe once may have been the beacon of hope for LGBTI rights
globally but we have learned that progress made in the work
toward equality provide no guarantees for the future.
COVID-19 seems to have become an excuse for too many
leaders in government in making progress on providing
protection and equality through law or to speak out to rising
anti-LGBTI sentiments.
It would be easy to blame it all on political attention
being immersed in the public health response to COVID-19 and
the ensuing the economic fallout, but the reality is a lot more
complex. In too many countries progress is stopped because
there is increased political polarization on LGBTI issues and
because governments do not see it as a political issue, as a
priority issue. LGBTQI organizations are at the very center of
these developments.
Currently and often as a result of COVID, many provide
humanitarian support to their communities, as governments fail
to provide basic needs. In the context of rising opposition,
providing security and emergent protection has become evermore
important in the work. With scarce resources and fading
political attention, too many activists struggle to balance the
need to provide support to their communities, while keeping
afloat the political work to advance LGBTQI rights.
The U.S. State Department and USAID have been financially
and politically supportive toward the work of LGBTQI movements
globally for several years and with bipartisan support. It is
critically important this funding and political support
continues, that the funding increases, and that it continues to
focus on the European and Central Asian regions. And it is
important that these efforts continue to be prioritized and
integrated in wider efforts to support anti-democratic
developments.
Thankfully in these difficult times European institutions
have stepped up their work to support LGBTQI rights. The EU
last year adopted the LGBTQI Equality Strategy which includes
an extensive plan of action on many fronts. European
Parliament, as was already said, like this House, undertakes
cross-party action to advance the rights of LGBTQI people in
the EU but also globally. And the Council of Europe has created
an anti-discrimination steering committee which works on sexual
orientation and gender identity as part of its mandate.
In a time where working in alliances evermore important,
there is political capital to work on both sides of the
Atlantic. For the U.S. Government, the European institutions
are important partners to work with, not just for the promotion
of LGBTQI rights in foreign policy but also incorporating to
strengthen human rights at home, which, given the growing
polarization, I think is an important dimension in doing this
work successfully as it builds political credibility to this
important work. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Van Roozendaal follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Keating. Well, thank you, Mr. van Roozendaal.
Now I will recognize Ms. Zakharova--Zakharova--I
apologize--for your opening statement.
Ms. Zakharova.
STATEMENT OF SVETLANA ZAKHAROVA, CO-SECRETARY, ILGA-EUROPE
BOARD MEMBER, RUSSIAN LGBT NETWORK
Ms. Zakharova. Thank you, Chair Keating, Ranking Member
Fitzpatrick, and Representatives.
My name is Svetlana Zakharova. I am a lesbian, a feminist,
and a human rights defender from Russia. I work with the
Russian LGBT Network since 2014, and Russian LGBT Network is
the biggest organization in the country that fights for equal
rights for everyone, regardless of sexual orientation and
gender identity.
Last December I became the director of the Legal and Social
Support Charitable Foundation Sphere, organization-operator of
the LGBT Network.
I am grateful for this opportunity to testify before the
subcommittee, especially today. Exactly on said date, 8 years
ago, the so-called propaganda law was adopted in Russia at
Federal level.
This legislation is really bad in many ways but I think
that the trickiest thing about this legislation is the fact
that it do not define what exactly propaganda means and, as a
result, every judge or State official or even police officer
decide by himself or herself if a particular case is propaganda
or not.
The truth is this legislation is not really used widely,
but it creates an atmosphere of impunity for the perpetrators.
Those people who commit hate crimes, they believe that they are
doing the right thing. They believe that the authority is
behind them. And LGBT+ communities on the other side feel
targeted, vulnerable, and unprotected.
The consequences of this legislation on Euros open public
discussion about LGBT+ rights in Russia is almost impossible.
LGBT minors do not get any support because psychologists and
social workers are just afraid to work with them. They are
afraid of being accused of propaganda. Online sources the
related to LGBT+ issues are being blocked. The amount of hate
crimes has grown. Freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and
freedom of assembly are violated.
And the extreme case is what happened in Chechnya. LGBT
people are deprived of the very basic right, the right to life.
In 2017, the whole world learned that LGBT+ people in Chechnya
are being kidnapped, tortured, and even killed just because of
their sexual orientation or gender identity. We started to
support those people in 2017, and we still are doing that
because it is far from being over.
Actually I planned to devote my testimony to the rights
LGBT+ in Russia is growing and getting stronger, despite of all
the pressure and everything that is going on in the country. I
wanted to talk about the ways how public opinion is changing to
the better because of the works of organizations and people who
are working hard every day to do so, but yesterday happened
something that changed my testimony completely.
Last night the shelter for victims of the domestic violence
in Makhachkala Dagestan was attacked by the law enforcement
agencies. Several women including Svetlana Anokhina, a human
rights defender, were brutally detained. They are still
detained for no reasons but helping other women. We believe
that this shelter was attacked because Khalimatt Taramova was
there--recently she contacted the Russian LGBT Network and she
said that her life is in mortal danger because of her sexual
orientation. With her girlfriend she managed to leave Chechnya.
She went to the Daghestan Makhachkala, and she was in the
shelter. She was waiting for evacuation to a safer place, but
basically she was kidnapped by the law enforcement agencies.
She was taken back to Chechnya, and probably she was given to
her parents. We do not know if she is alive. Her girlfriend was
released today. She managed to contact us and to tell us what
really happened. She is out of Makhachkala Daghestan now.
The situation is just unbelievable. The law enforcement
agencies are attacking shelters of the victims of the domestic
violence and kidnap people they should protect. It happened in
Russia right now. And I want to point your attention to that
and to the ways how some people in Russia are deprived from
this very basic right, the right to life. We all know that our
Presidents are going to meet soon and I believe that this the
situation with LGBT+ rights in Russia, in Chechnya, and
especially the fate of Khalimat Taramova should be discussed.
Thank you for your attention.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Zakharova follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Ms. Zakharova.
The chair now recognizes for 5 minutes Mr. Dombos.
STATEMENT OF TAMAS DOMBOS, BOARD MEMBER, HATTER SOCIETY
Mr. Dombos. Chairman Keating, members of the subcommittee,
I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you about the
gross violations of human rights of LGBTQI people in Hungary.
My testimony today is in my capacity as board member of Hatter
Society and the Hungarian LGBT Alliance.
Historically speaking, Hungary was a country with a
relatively high level of acceptance and legal protections
afforded to sexual and gender minorities. The country
decriminalized homosexuality in 1961. The first gay association
was set up before the end of socialism. The law recognizes
same-sex couples since 1996. Transgender people had access to
legal gender recognition. Budapest, our lovely capital, hosted
the first ever Pride march in the region more than two decades
ago in 1997.
In the past decade and especially in the past 2 years,
however, the legal, social, and political situation of LGBTQI
people has severely deteriorated. It started with the adoption
of a new constitution in 2012. It contains a provision that
defines marriage as a union between a woman and a man and
family with only reference to marriage and parent-child
relationships. Since, then our families have lived in a legal
vacuum.
Governmental homophobia and transphobia reached a new peak
in 2019 when high-ranking public officials, governing
politicians, and overwhelmingly government-controlled public
and private media started to speak in an unprecedentedly
hostile way about our community. The speaker of the parliament
likened same-sex couples raising children to pedophiles. Prime
Minister Orban said homosexuals should keep their hands off our
children. A senior member of parliament called for banning our
Pride march and for boycotting Coca-Cola as they featured a
same-sex couple in advertisements.
But the attacks did not stop at words. Last May the
parliament banned legal gender recognition for trans and
intersex people. Trans people now have to live with official
documents that do not reflect their gender identity and/or
their appearance.
In December 2020, the parliament restricted adoption by
non-married couples--non-married persons. It will not longer be
professionals but rather a politician, our openly homophobic
Minister of Family Affairs, who will make decisions on who is a
suitable parent.
Most recently, just yesterday, an amendment was introduced
in parliament, copying the infamous Russian propaganda law. The
amendment would ban discussions on homosexuality and trans
persons in schools, ban advertisements portraying gay and
lesbian couples, and sanction shops selling books or movies
featuring LGBTQI+ people to minors. And we are not talking
about the portrayal of sexual relations but any portrayal of a
gay or lesbian person, a same-sex couple, or a transgender
person.
Most of these legislative changes happened during the peak
of the COVID crisis when hundreds of people were dying every
day. All these changes form part of a very conscious and
diabolic political strategy to divert attention away from the
inability of the government to tackle the health, social, and
economic crisis COVID brought to our country.
While these discussions were happening in parliament,
extreme right-wing paramilitary groups felt encouraged to
disrupt our work in legal ways. Dozens of Nazis regularly come
to our events, not just the Pride march but movie screenings,
workshops, discussions. They threaten the participants,
physically abuse the organizers, steal or burn our rainbow
flags, and the police offer no protection.
We are sad, angry, and fearful. The rights we have fought
for so hard for so long can be taken away from us at the
glimpse of a moment. We have become tools in a political game.
We became enemy No. 1 just because of the way we love or the
way we identify. Don't be misled by the government's
propaganda. The majority of Hungarians are not homophobes or
transphobes. The majority agrees with legal equality for LGBTQI
people, with legal gender recognition of trans people, with
same-sex couples being a family. These are facts of public
opinion polls.
We are not threatened by our society. We are threatened by
a political leadership that creates and fights false enemies
instead of governing the country, a political leadership that
completely disregards not only its international obligations
but binding court decisions. If they do not agree with a court
ruling, they change the law the next day. They abolish checks
and balances, dismantle democratic institutions, fill up our
courts and public bodies with their friends.
The problems we face do not only target us as LGBTQI Pride
persons, they target us as human rights defenders, as
independent civil society actors, as autonomous citizens.
But we do not give up. We will fight our legal battles, and
we will protect our community from these attacks. We will make
sure that every person understands how living in such a hostile
political environment undermines our everyday existence, our
mental and physical well-being. And we will make sure that our
country finds its way back to a community of democracies built
on the respect for human rights, equality and the rule of law.
But we need your help as well. You have to hold our government
accountable to its international human rights commitments.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Dombos follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Mr. Dombos. I would now like to
call on Dr. Emson for your opening statement. Dr. Emson.
STATEMENT OF DR. LENNY EMSON, DIRECTOR, KYIVPRIDE
Dr. Emson. Chair Keating, Ranking Member Fitzpatrick, and
distinguished members of the committee, thank you for inviting
me to testify on this important issue during the Pride month.
I represent an NGO that annually organizes the largest
LGBTQI rally newspaper Ukraine, Kyiv Pride March of Equality.
Back in 2013, the Kyiv Pride march began on a short walk of
about 50 people and took place in the outskirts of the city. It
was tremendously hard to make sure that authorities didn't ban
it to ensure our protection from groups opposing equal rights.
In just 6 years the Kyiv Pride march has transformed into a
massive rally of more than 10,000 people taking place in
central Kyiv in 2019.
The striking difference in numbers within a span of just a
few years demonstrates the progress our society has made in
terms of respecting and protecting LGBTI rights. This progress
would have not been possible without the consistent support of
the United States. The efforts to strengthen Ukraine's police
reform and civil society were not in vain.
However, some very serious challenges remain for our
community. Our increased visibility has sparked a surge in the
numbers of hate crimes against LGBTI people. Violent groups
advocating hatred began targeting us. They often come to our
events and do whatever they can to disrupt them including
resorting to violence. These groups are operating in an
organized manner. They are easy to identify, but they enjoy
mere total impunity for their attacks.
Today several right-radical NGO's are clearly visible in
acting in many cities of the country. In 2020, they have
organized several attacks on LGBTI community centers and events
such as Odesa Pride when a dozen participants was attacked and
injured.
In 2021, the community center of the LGBT Association,
LIGA, has received bomb threats twice. These actions are widely
supported by many Ukrainian politicians. And MPs and the number
of attacks on LGBTI activities by far right groups has sharply
increased, 24 cases in 2020 against 11 in 2019.
Just within the last week of May this year there have been
four such attacks including one attack on a Kyiv Pride-
organized film screening.
Every time we have to live in fear of yet another attack.
Unfortunately the police are not doing nearly enough to address
such attacks and hold the perpetrators accountable. Currently
Ukraine does not explicitly recognize homophobia as motives of
a hate crime in its legislation. This issue is invisible for
the State.
Holding perpetrators accountable, even without
acknowledging hate motive, is also incredibly rare. In one
emblematic case of activist Vitalina Koval, people who threw
paint at her and caused chemical burns to her eyes were charged
with causing her minor bodily harm and were brought before
court. The court was looking into her case for almost 3 years
and yet failed to prosecute Vitalina Koval's attackers because
of an expired statute of limitations for such crimes.
The lack of legislation that recognizes homophobia as types
of discriminatory motives, as well as the lack of effective
investigations, is what keeps pulling our country back in terms
of LGBTI rights progress.
The good news is our government has recently registered a
bill that will introduce the reform of the anti-hate crime
legislation. We expect this bill to be widely opposed and so we
would like to ask for solidarity from the international
community.
Our members of parliamentary should be urged that this
reform is necessary. I would also like to emphasize that, even
if we would have the most perfect law addressing hate crimes,
this law would still have to be implemented. That is why any
kind of support to continue Ukraine's police reform is most
welcome.
In 2013, the Kyiv Pride March for Equality took place
largely because of the international support from governments,
embassies, and allied organizations. Today civil society in
Ukraine needs that same support in order to ensure that legal
reform continues and that these acts of violence against the
LGBTI community are rightly considered hate crimes and are
prosecuted as such.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Emson follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Dr. Emson, and thank all of you for
your testimony.
I will now recognize all members for 5 minutes each
pursuant to House rules. All time yielded is for the purposes
of questioning witnesses. Because of the virtual format of this
hearing, I will recognize members of the committee by seniority
alternating between Democrats and Republicans. If you miss your
turn, please let our staff know and we will circle back to you.
If you seek recognition, you must unmute your microphone and
address the chair verbally. I will now recognize myself for 5
minutes.
And I want to thank the witnesses. I think you all did a
very good job of showing how the connection with LGBTQI+
rights, these basic civil rights, the deterioration of that
coincides with other types of democratic backsliding.
One of the issues, whether it is rule of law, whether it is
enforcement by police or law enforcement, security people,
but--or the judiciary, I just want to start with one question--
and I think it was Mr. Dombos that brought this up--but one of
the areas of backsliding that are concerning are what is
happening in these authoritarian countries with the media.
Could you_all comment on how they are using the media to
really tamp down these basic human rights and the kind of
things they are doing? I think that--we see what they are doing
in Russia now with the foreign agents legislation. We are
seeing the effect on Radio Free Europe. And we are seeing it on
Meduza and other sources.
So could you share with us just how this is happening and
what kind of a threat it presents? Anyone that would like to
start with that would be great, yes.
Ms. Zakharova. Chair Keating, I would like to start.
Well, you started to talk about Russia and I myself am from
Russia. At Charitable Foundation Sphere, I am the director of
the organization added to the list of foreign agents since
2016. So I know exactly how to--how it to be a foreign agent.
Talking about mass media, most mass media in Russia is
State controlled and it is really hard to go to them and to
present a different image of LGBT+ community and most of them
portray LGBT+ community as pedophiles, as foreign agents, as
people who want to destroy our traditional values, whatever it
is supposed to mean. But, of course, we have support from the
independent mass media and we are really grateful for this
support because it is almost the only chance for us to talk
about LGBT rights.
Thank you.
Mr. Keating. Anyone else want to comment on that?
I have another question. In a parliamentary system, unlike
our own, we are finding in very close elections the coalitions
coming together that are formed after those elections often
rely on small minority parties to give them a coalition
majority. Are you seeing some of the far-right right groups
that are actually attacking these basic human rights, forming
these colations and what kind of influence are they having,
albeit a small minority, but also leveraging that for a
coalition? Do you see any of that occurring in these small
parties?
Mr. Dombos.
Mr. Dombos. Yes, just first to react to the media,
currently in Hungary, the media is under strict governmental
control. Yes, there is private media but many of the private
media has been bought by pro-government businessmen with the
help of loans from the government and the public media and all
these pro-government media are micromanaged. They are told what
message to send, which people to invite.
Just to give you an example, a few months ago I was invited
to the public radio for a discussion about a specific topic. We
set up an interview. And 15 minutes later I got a phone call,
saying that, ``I am sorry. We cannot have that interview
because you appear on the list of banned persons.'' And so
there is an official list in the public radio about
organizations and people that they cannot invite. I mean, that
is the level of oppression in the media that happens.
And regarding the second question, in Hungary I think the
most extremist political party currently is Fidesz. It is the
governing party. We have had Jobbik, an extreme-right party
that, compared to Fidesz, now is a moderate centrist party.
Over the past 10 years, month after month the government has
become more xenophobic, racist, and most recently completely
LGBTQI-phobic. They--they create now a fake party, Mi Hazan,
and they play into the hands of this extremist party so that
they can claim they are not the most extreme one but do not be
fooled by it. This is a political game. They created a party
that is more--that seems to be more extremist than them so that
they can claim that they are a centrist moderate party and if
they are not in power, then those Nazis will come in. Those
Nazis are them. They are financing them. They are giving them
media space to create this image that they are the moderate
centrist parties. That is a lie.
Mr. Keating. Thank you so much for that.
I now recognize Representative Deutch for 5 minutes for his
questions.
Mr. Deutch. Thanks. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman, and
thanks for calling this really important and_I think we can
say_historic hearing. In on our committee, I am just glad that
I am one of several members of the congressional LGBTQI+--
Equality Caucus, including our caucus chair, Mr. Cicilline. The
caucus and this committee share a common understanding that the
United States' responsibility to stand up for equality and
human rights for the LGBTQI+ community does not stop at our
borders, and this month in particular we stand in international
solidarity not only with our own LGBTQI+ constituents here, but
with communities around the world.
And as this hearing has already demonstrated, the right of
every person to have equal opportunity, regardless of gender or
sexual orientation, regardless of who they love or their gender
presentation, is an unequivocal part of our nation's human
rights vision and correspondingly of our nation's foreign
policy. So I am really grateful to all the witnesses and to
you, Mr. Chairman, for calling this important hearing.
I want, Mr. Chairman, to followup on your questions about
democratic backsliding and we have--we have talked about this
before. In recent years the backsliding we have seen across
Europe and Eurasia has created a space for increased
discrimination against the LGBTQI+ community, and Hungary and
Poland are certainly of particular concern, with rapid
democratic deterioration and codified reversals in progress for
the community.
Mr. Dombos, your last response about Fidesz creating a
party so that they can appear to be the moderate party I think
is a really troubling--a really troubling part of this
conversation. But there is a trend here.
And so what I would like, I would ask all of our panelists,
if you could put this--the struggles for, and the attacks on
,the LGBTQI+ community in the context, the broader context, of
the deterioration of democratic institutions across the--across
Europe and Eurasia, what--what is--how does this fit in?
And, Mr. Dombos, you had made reference to this.
Specifically, when you include this as part of the greater
human rights struggle, how does the backsliding in your
country--I will start with you and then everyone--how does it
wind up--how does it wind up impacting the community
specifically when you see this democratic backsliding taking
place?
Mr. Dombos. Well, I think the reaction of most people is to
just run away, run away, either, like, completely closing out
politics from their lives, because, you know, every morning you
get up and you read a statement like that. Or they run out of
the country. I mean, you know, we are in the EU, unlike Ukraine
and Russia. So it is a right of any citizen to just leave the
country and live in another country, and that is what is
happening. After the trans law was adopted, dozens and dozens
of my trans friends left the country from one day to the other
because they said they do not want to live in a country that
denies them the basic right, the basic rights to be who they
are and to have the name they want.
And, yes, I think it is very important to note this, that
LGBTI people are just one among many other groups that are
targeted. We are currently targeted the most in Hungary. But,
you know, a few years ago it was homeless people. It was
migrants. It was George Soros with very clear anti-Semitic
tones. So it is--this is the logic of the government: to find
an enemy and then pretend that they are saving the country from
that enemy.
And, unfortunately, since they have 2/3 majority, they can
do whatever they want with legislation. They can change the
constitution from 1 day to the other. They can, if they do not
like what a certain public body is doing, they just abolish the
public body. So they do not--you know, they do not fire the
person. They just abolish the public body, and this is what
happened with the data protection ombuds.
Mr. Deutch. I appreciate that, Mr. Dombos. I just wanted to
give----
Mr. Dombos. Yes.
Mr. Deutch. I would just like to provide an opportunity for
the other witnesses.
Maybe, Ms. Zakharova, can I ask you to comment on this?
Ms. Zakharova. Yes. Absolutely. Thank you, Representative
Deutch.
As well as Hungary, in Russia LGBT is not the only targeted
group and it is very clear to me that this part of civil
society and all civil society is really oppressed and we can
see how it was in the legislation of the foreign agents were
adopted and we are now in the same box. Basically there is only
one party in Russia and all the rest are considered to be the
opposition and the opposition is oppressed.
Mr. Deutch. Well, I appreciate it.
Mr. Keating, I hope we will get to hear from the other
witness on this as well but I will--I am out of time. So I will
yield back. Thank you very much.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative. We might have time
for a second round, too. So if you are interested in pursuing
that, we will do it.
To the witnesses, I will say this, that when you answer the
question, you do not have to be recognized, unless the member
designates, you know, a question directly for you. So feel free
to jump in with a question, unless it is a, you know, an
appointed designation.
So with that, I am going to recognize Representative
Cicilline.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you again
for this historic hearing. Thank you to the witnesses for being
here. Happy Pride. Thank you for your heroic work around the
world.
You know, as I was listening to the testimony, it struck me
that, you know, there must be a set of conditions in places in
Europe and Eurasia that are leading, you know, politicians and
State actors to conclude that supporting anti-LGBTQ parties is
in their best interest and so I wondered if you could speak to
kind of: What are the social, economic, and political
conditions that are contributing to that and what, you know,
are the long-term implications of being prevented from
representing positive, you know, providing positive
representations of LGBTQI people, particularly to young people,
and kind of next generation of attitudes? But, you know, what
is causing this?
I think, Mr. Dombos, you said this is part of a strategy to
divert attention from failed economic policies by rallying
people around someone that they can create as a villain. I just
wonder. What other conditions that you are seeing that are
leading to this?
Dr. Emson. If I may.
Mr. Cicilline. Dr. Emson, do you want to start?
Dr. Emson. Yes, all right. Thank you for question because
it is a very important issue for our countries and I believe
poverty is a big issue and, you know, economic pressure that
people feel and government is really looking for some reason
and looking for the channel where they can put people's anger,
right. And governments in our countries, they are really
looking at LGBTQI people as a group that can be really, you
know, attacked without any consequences for attackers. Right?
In our country, for example, and after the pandemic crisis,
the situation is really not easy and today we have a lot of
young people, new generation that are really transphobic, they
are really homophobic and really aggressive toward LGBTQI, and
they gather in groups. They gather even in registered
organizations and they attack LGBTQI events and LGBTQI people
and even people who are not belonging to LGBTQI communities
but, like, look like LGBT, right, so people who look not
normal, right, people who are different from the majority of
the society.
And this is very, very scary situation right now because,
as my colleagues said before, it is not only about LGBTQI
group. We have very visible. That is why we are attacked. But
this anger is directed on many more groups like chroma people,
like homeless people, and other groups that are not protected
and, unfortunately, the government does not think about
protecting them and about really making the country a safe
place for everyone which is really important for us right now.
Thank you.
Mr. Cicilline. So can I ask any of the witnesses? You know,
I think one of the things that we--the purpose of this hearing
is to think about ways that the United States can partner with
our European allies or European institutions like the Council
of Europe to promote LGBT equality and dignity and obviously
passing the Equality Act and passing some legislation that will
reaffirm our commitment to the principles of equality for our
community is one thing.
But what other things can we do as the U.S. Congress to
support the work that you are doing? I mean, we are very
conscious of not--you know, in many countries, you know, so
much of the argument is this is about Western ideas being
imported to poison society and destroy your way of life. So we
are very sensitive on the way we do it and we want to be smart
about it. But what kinds of things can the U.S. Congress do to
help support LGBTQI+ equality in places where you live and work
right now?
Bjorn, I think you are on----
Mr. Van Roozendaal. Sorry. If I can comment there, I think
that legally in these and when we look at Europe, a lot of
progress has been made and some of you have said it earlier.
There is--there is a limited amount of work that is possible in
that space, albeit it continues to be important, of course, to
address situations like in Hungary, like in Russia.
I think beyond that what is important is that we--that we
look at how hearts and minds can be won. And in order for that
to happen, I think what needs to happen is, first,
strengthening joint political commitment between countries and
that is where a lot of work needs to happen.
And then I think also in doing that, looking at what kind
of programming can happen across both sides of the Atlantic
that supports the work that LGBTQI movements are doing in
winning hearts and minds and there I think the Global Equality
Fund has played a very detrimental role already but its
contribution to the work is still, yes, compared to with other
countries who I think limited.
So continuing to grow that and not just by the work that
the State Department is doing but also the work that USAID is
doing I think is important and within it also paying attention
to the work that happens in places in Europe.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you so much.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative.
The chair recognizes Representative Titus for her
questions.
Ms. Titus. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
holding this hearing. It has been a long time since the Foreign
Affairs Committee addressed this topic, and I think it is a
crying shame that our colleagues from across the aisle couldn't
find the time or have the concern to join us to hear about this
issue.
I appreciate everything the witnesses have been saying and,
as they may or may not know, we have just recently introduced
the GLOBE Act to try to restore the U.S.'s leadership position
in this area and so I hope that we will see some movement on
that and have the State Department again start to take the
lead.
We have also seen that COVID has made situations worse for
groups that have traditionally, I guess, been discriminated
against already. I wonder if you-all might address if you've
seen any of the restrictions because of COVID been
disproportionately applied to your community.
Mr. Dombos. Yes, clearly. Of course, I think all of the
political developments that have been happening I think are
also in the context of COVID, as I mentioned, but it has also
direct impact on people. People were not able to access HIV
testing. They were not able to access medication. Transgender
surgeries or hormonal treatments were canceled because of
COVID. Many LGBTQI people had to move back to their families'
home, families that are not necessarily supportive of them.
This often put people in danger of domestic abuse on behalf
their parents or their siblings. Many people lost their jobs
because of COVID and many LGBTQI people work already in
informal sectors and then they get no protection whatsoever. So
I think it is true that we are among one of the biggest losers
of the COVID crisis. Thanks.
Dr. Emson. If I may add to this, so last year one of the
leaders of the Ukrainian church, orthodox church, he declared
that COVID happened because of gay people, just for you to see,
you know.
Well, and I would support my colleague from Hungary
because, like, many people lost their jobs and many people need
more support right now and specifically people with HIV
positive status, right, because they really need more support
and we need more testing and we need more support for this
group. Right? And in terms of the LGBTQI rights, the situation
is worsening as well because the government just used COVID in
crisis as an excuse, right, from banning us from advocating our
rights, right on the spot. Thank you.
Mr. van Roozendaal. I have seen across the region that
LGBTI groups have started to increase the kind of service
proficient, service proficient that they do toward the LGBTI
community, providing food, shelter, medical support in places
with respect governments were hugely absent in providing the
kind of services that LGBTQI people need. So I can say that in
most places unfortunately governments have not met the space to
think about the specific needs that the LGBTI community may
need.
And so at the time of global backlash, I think it is fair
to say that LGBTI organizations have not only been overwhelmed
at this point to the backlash but also stepped up the ways in
which they have to take care of the community and how that is
affecting LGBTI organizations is hugely important to name as
well because we see, unfortunately, a lot of cases of burnout
while being issues with human rights defenders who simply have
too many things to work on, on an everyday basis.
But you compare and it is just to put a number to it and
you compare the level of funding between North America and
Europe, we are at 1/10 of the amount of funding that is going
around in the LGBTI movement in this region compared to our
colleagues in the U.S. and Canada. So you can imagine that
there is a situation of significant under-resourcing which
really affects some activists in the movement at the moment as
a result.
Ms. Titus. I am sure that is true. Not only is the problem
worse but the strain on the agencies trying to deal with the
problem outside of government must be so great.
Well, right now our President is traveling in Europe and is
announcing that he is going to have an international vaccine
plan.
So, Mr. Chairman, maybe we can send a letter, encouraging
him where he distribute this vaccine to our allies, that we are
sure that all community are included, especially LGBTQ
communities.
Thank you, and I will wait until the next round for another
question.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative. That is a great
suggestion, and I appreciate that. Now we will just quickly
have a second round of questions, if we could.
I am just curious as we are talking about the control of
the media, when we are talking about the way it is being
manipulated. When instances occur--in our own country, we have
instances of discrimination that make the press. Is that used
at all, you know, by these other authoritarian countries where
they highlight this is occurring in the U.S. or other
democratic countries? Do you see that occurring at all as part
of the media control and newspaper control? Anyone that might
have seen that.
Mr. Dombos. Yes. I think this mapping of, you know,
homosexuality or LGBTQI activity as, you know, coming from the
West is very common. But I think it is--at least in the case of
Hungary, you have to understand that Hungarians are very pro-
Western in their attitudes. If you look at the public opinion
polls about support for European Union membership or trust in
EU institutions, the trust is way, way higher in EU
institutions, in European institutions, than it is in the
Hungarian--the local Hungarian government.
So I think it is very important to understand that yes,
there is that, but that should not debilitate making a clear
point about LGBTQI community.
And I think it is also very important to emphasize that,
unfortunately, much of the conservative kind of family values,
gender ideology discourse is coming from the U.S., and it is
sponsored by United States bodies, evangelical churches, clear
conservative groups that are losing out in their own country,
and they export their homophobic and transphobic views in other
countries.
We have seen this all over the world in the past 2 decades,
in African countries, and it is currently happening in Hungary.
I mean, our homophobic Minister of Family Affairs is regularly
attending these meetings with U.S. evangelicals as well as with
Russian, you know, strategists that are trying to build_on an
international level_a coalition of conservative, family
oriented countries and groups. And then, of course, they impact
how policies and decisions are made in Hungary.
Mr. Keating. Well, you know, thanks for that comment
because I think it really underscores the importance of our
committee having this hearing and the fact that this is an
international issue and not just a domestic issue. I think
there is--part of authoritarianism is the idea that, you know,
they are closed to other borders, they make their own
decisions, they have their own, but this is truly
international.
And you mentioned Hungary again. You know, the poll is--you
know, the polls taken there are quite clear, very high, 79, 80
percent of the people believe these issues are private matters,
but still, you know, Orban is able to do what he is doing. How
is he getting away with manipulating that with such a strong
population in support of keeping this a private human rights
issue?
Mr. Dombos. I think the reason is that they are very
professional in polling people and finding issues where you
have slightly less support, so that is why they picked on
transgender people. That is why they picked on adoption issue.
That is why they are picking up on school education now because
those are the topics that many Hungarians feel a bit less
secure about and more uncomfortable about.
And, also, those issues are very often, unfortunately, the
ones which are not covered by the European Union law, so they
are, you know, freer to venture into those areas. And, you
know, they do not have to convince every single Hungarian.
They only have to convince those very loyal supporters that
they need to take to the polls, and that is how they are
working. They know, you know, each and every person, basically,
that votes for them. And they target them, micro target them
with very clear messages that resonate with what they think
about the world. And, unfortunately, with some of the--with
some groups in society, this kind of homophobia and transphobia
resonates very well with their fears.
Mr. Keating. Are you finding--and this is for any of the
panel. You know, we have talked a great deal about the free
speech, freedom of assembly, the ability to speak up, those
type of freedoms too. But are you seeing in these countries
where this kind of repression is occurring, issues like housing
and employment being affected too? I mean, our Equality Act
that we are passing here protects housing issues, employment
issues, issues of getting loans and financing, but are you
seeing housing? What other areas are you seeing this
discrimination really spread to?
Dr. Emson. Do I still have time?
Mr. Keating. Yes. Oh, yes.
Dr. Emson. Yes. Okay. If I may, I would sort of point out
that housing is a big issue for LGBTQI people in Ukraine
specifically like I believe in other countries in the region
because people, in order to rent a house or a flat, right, they
need to hide themselves, right. We cannot be visible. We cannot
be open. If you are open, you stand no chance for getting rent
or getting apartment. It is a big problem because the
legislation does not mention any discriminated groups in terms
of protecting their rights for housing or for food or for
employment, right.
We do not have this in our legislation, and, unfortunately,
this really affects LGBTQI people in the country.
Mr. Keating. Any other comments in that regard? Go ahead. I
am sorry.
Mr. van Roozendaal. I am sorry. No. There is an increasing
body of research around homelessness in particular amongst
LGBTI young people in the region, and unfortunately, the
numbers that are coming in have very stark similarities between
what we see in the U.S. So there are huge instances of
homelessness amongst young people who often can no longer stay
with their parents and then sleep rough because they have no
place to go to.
In the field of employment, I would say the European Union
and its 27 member States have laws, anti-discrimination laws to
employment, but the implementation there often fails. And in
too many neighboring countries, that is not the case. And so
what we see is also in recent years that the growing number of
LGBTQ community members needs to turn to litigation to get
their rights recognized in also a lot of the council of Europe
countries.
So this is a huge body of work I think in the field of
socioeconomic rights where yet a lot of needs are there, but
also a lot of, I think, opportunities for the LGBTI movement to
work on.
Mr. Keating. Thank you.
Representative Cicilline.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Zakharova, I hope I pronounced it correctly, the
Russian Federation is obviously a global leader in the
persecution of LGBTQI+ persons and persuades Nations and
individuals within its sphere of influence to adopt their
hateful doctrine as their own. Activists face violence and
detention.
Vladimir Putin regularly articulates his disdain not just
for equality but the LGBTQI community in Russia but for human
rights in general. And the Russian government, as you know, has
failed to adequately address targeted criminal acts against
Russia's LGBTQI community.
My question is in that context, what role does social media
and enhanced tech monitoring play in anti-LGBTQI harassment and
violence, both by private citizens and by national and
regionally governments like those in Chechnya?
Ms. Zakharova. Well, thank you for this question. And I
would say that social networks and technologies is a double-
sided thing because on the one hand, it is a source--for many
people, it is a source of information, especially for many
young people. And I can see how young people in Russia are
different from us. For instance, like several years ago there
was a public poll opinion, and more than 50 percent of school
children, people who are basically targeted by this propaganda
law said that they support same sex marriages. But at the same
time, of course, quite often, the same networks are used
against LGBT+ communities, especially in such close communities
and in Chechnya where people, like, literally cannot be open.
It is dangerous. It threatens their lives.
And, of course, authorities, local authorities use their
vulnerability. And--well, it is something that is happening,
and I think that probably international business should pay
more attention to security in such countries like Russia,
especially such regions as Chechnya.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you.
Dr. Emson, you know, I think a lot of people are watching
with some concern that in Ukraine, the ultra conservative far
right is retaining a lot of influence and a lot of power,
risking not only the rights of LGBTQI people but also Ukraine's
democratic future.
And it has been reported that anti-LGBTQI+ legislation,
including legislation introduced by members of President
Zelensky's own party, has been circulated in Ukraine that
closely resembles initiatives either introduced or enacted in
Russia. And I wonder how much influence does Russian have over
the debate for LGBTQI+ people in Ukraine and what you see the
prospects for that law.
Dr. Emson. Thank you very much for those questions because
this is a very important issue as well. Right now, it is
Russian influence, right.
So since 2012, right, we have experienced those efforts of
different political parties to introduce the gay propaganda law
in Ukraine, right. And last year and we know that some MPs are
getting ready to introduce it again and again, and we know that
political parties are standing behind those efforts.
And, moreover, it is not only about the legislation. It is
about the far right groups that we believe are partly financed
by the Russian government or the Russian security forces, and
they train these groups. And they really put a lot of effort in
erasing these groups inside Ukraine. And homophobia and
transphobia is a big issue because of this Russian influence.
And young people right now in Ukraine, some of them are
really under this influence, and we are afraid that this
influence is growing. Unfortunately, this is very big. This is
not only the Ukranian government war and peace, right. This is
the propaganda that goes from all sources like media, like
social media, like money that really spread into these far
right groups growing.
Mr. Cicilline. Yes. I will just get in one quick question,
Mr. Dombos. When you were talking about using particular issues
like the transgender community adoption and school issues, we
see the same things in the United States for organizations that
are opposing our fight for full equality.
I wonder if you could just speak a little more about the
role of U.S. groups and these evangelical groups because I
think this is really alarming, you know. We are always accused
of exporting, you know, tolerance for the LGBTQ community and
acceptance, and what you are saying is just the opposite. The
U.S. is exporting some pretty--you know, some organizations
that are promoting undermining equality for our community, and
I think we need to know more about that.
Mr. Dombos. Exactly. The World Congress of Families, for
example, which is a hate group recognized by the Southern
Poverty Law Center, they are--you know, they have done several
conferences in Hungary. They are inviting, you know, public
speakers.
You know, they try to sound as like support for family
values, but it is very clearly an anti-LGBT rights and an anti-
women's rights, anti-sexual and reproductive health rights
coalition that is putting a lot of effort, money, and know-how
as well in how to do this, what topics to look at, what--how to
frame topics.
And I think that, of course, the reason why they are so
similar is partly because, you know, humans all over the world
have similar fears. They are afraid for their children, you
know.
They want the best for their children. So if they are
telling them that, oh, these monster trans freaks are going to
turn your child into a trans person that you will never
recognize, and you will lose your son or lose your daughter,
then people resonate with this.
But it is also not just this, you know, basic human
mentality but also, you know, very clear networks that are
being put in place.
And policy learning, unfortunately, is taking place in its
worst way. We see amendments to the Hungarian Constitution
popping up in other countries. We see the propaganda law
introduced in Hungary, copying Russia. Unfortunately, there is
policy learning among these countries to the worse.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative.
Now I will recognize for the final questions the chief
sponsor of the GLOBE Act, Representative Titus.
Ms. Titus. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
If you look back at the history of LGBT rights in this
country, you find that much of that started at the State level.
The Congress was late to get on board. We Had initiatives at
the State level. State legislatures passed equality laws or
marriage laws. And then when they reached a tipping point,
Congress came on board.
I realize that you all do not have the same kind of Federal
system or maybe even referenda or initiatives like we do here,
but have you had any luck at trying to deal with lower levels
of governments like communities or States or regions, working
your way up to the national level? Is that a possibility where
you all are?
Ms. Zakharova. Can I start answering this question? I think
that in Russia, the political process is quite different. There
is only one ruling party, and basically there is no way, you
know, to work with someone because local authorities are afraid
of the central authorities, and they are just trying to do
everything to please them. So I think that we have very
specific situation where society is actually quite progressive,
and authorities are very, very conservative. And they are
trying to impose those conservative views onto all society, and
there is this battle. Thank you.
Dr. Emson. I would add on the Ukranian side and say in
Ukraine, we had, like, some friendly politicians and MPs that
would help us. This is a very interesting phenomenon. They
would get bullied in the parliament. Literally, their
colleagues would blame them for all sorts of things just
because they support LGBTI people. And in this situation, it is
very hard for us to really advocate and lobby the legislation
that we need right now.
Mr. van Roozendaal. I would like to add to that, mention to
that, because it is an intriguing question. I would like to tie
it into the previous question on the opposition in that where
we do see a lot of success often at the local level, it is not
necessarily when it is political as [] Lenny and Svetlana have
described but when it comes to looking at building other kinds
of coalitions.
So where can LGBTI activists build alliances with doctors,
with journalists, with teachers, with any kind of professionals
who want to exercise their profession in ethical and moral,
morally high standards. And, there, often we see that a lot of
change is possible when we do not only focus on the political
and legal process.
And I think that recognizing that kind of important local
work is important, and I would like to tie it into the
opposition work because it is essentially also about alliance
building. And Tamas just mentioned that a lot of the opposition
is not just targeting the LGBTI movement but also the sexual
rights movement and the women's rights movement, and that is
true.
And I think what is important in ways in which we support
activists who are working on sexual rights, on women's rights
or LGBTI rights is to consider how we bring groups together,
not just only on those fronts but also with mainstream human
rights organizations and those that stands up to defend
democracy. This is often where LGBTI activists need the time,
the resources to build the connections.
So recognizing when it comes to funding the importance of
alliance building is extremely important, and I think the ways
in which you can all support that work is also looking out for
opportunities in which embassies can be bringing people
together and which you, as representatives, can bring in
different kinds of allies together and help to work toward
larger democratic agendas.
Ms. Titus. You are right. Coalition building is so
important, and we often find you put together a group of
organizations on the liberal end of the political spectrum.
They do not just have to be human rights. You might find allies
in the environmental community, for example. I do not know if
you have seen that, but we certainly see that here. Or the
labor movement,]or--you know, it just depends. That is great.
Just briefly, Mr. Chairman, I wanted to ask about Turkey.
In the last century, Turkey was seen as kind of a standard
bearer for protecting LGBT rights and protecting them from the
other countries in the neighborhood. But under Erdogan in the
last 10 years, they have gotten much more repressive. I wonder
if you have any suggestions on what the U.S. Can do in dealing
with Turkey that might address this problem.
Mr. van Roozendaal. Yes. Unfortunately, Turkey is also
looking at putting its playbook in many ways increasingly in
recent times, and I would almost answer the same things.
Because when you look at how the movement currently is under
attack, it is in the field of freedom of expression, in freedom
of assembly.
All the things that have been mentioned during this hearing
are affecting the community at the moment in that online spaces
are increasingly no longer safe.
So I think what is extremely important is to raise these
issues by letter but very carefully and very respectfully
because Erdogan, in kind of defending his political territory
at the moment, is really using the narrative of western values
very much. So I think it is important that when the issue is
brought up, that it is brought up as an issue that is about
freedom of expression, that it is about defending democracy,
that it is about defending pluralism.
And we see in the run up to the elections that will take
place in Turkey in 2 years that Erdogan is losing popularity.
So the question is really what is going to happen around those
elections, and what work can be done on the ground in building
kind of a broader political agenda that is looking at different
sets of value. So supporting broad civil society initiatives of
which the LGBTI movement is a part, I think is one of the
critical factors of success at the moment.
Ms. Titus. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I yield back.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative.
I would like to thank Mr. van Roozendaal. I would like to
thank Dr. Emson and Ms. Zakharova as well as Mr. Dombos for
your excellent testimony here today. It is not just your
testimony but the courage that you have given speaking up. You
are speaking up, in many instances, in territories where it is
very difficult to speak up. It is very difficult to come
forward, and I want to let you know this committee appreciates
your efforts but also your courage doing this. This is so
important.
I also would like to ask you, since this came up as a
subject matter in today's testimony, if you have any more
specific suggested language you could add, we would like to
move forward with Representative Titus' suggestion that we
contact the White House and make sure with the distribution of
vaccines, as we export that assistance, that it is done in an
inclusive way so that groups like the LGBTQI+ community are not
excluded from having these life-saving vaccines. I think that
is very important as well.
And I do want, I do hope that all of you as witnesses
appreciate the members that participated here today. I think if
you check back on important legislation and advocacy, you are
going to find that people who participated here are among the
leaders in Congress in pushing forward protections for these
very basic human rights. So I want to thank the members who are
participating as well today.
So with that, I just would say that a little bit of
housekeeping. The members of the committee will have 5 days to
submit statements, extraneous materials, and questions for the
record subject to the limitation on rules.
Again, I want to thank everyone for participating. This
was, indeed, a very important, if not historic congressional
committee hearing today, and I think it will continue to break
ground so that there is more attention to the global impact of
this kind of discrimination. So, with that, I will call the
hearing adjourned. Thank you all.
[Whereupon, at 12:25 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX
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