[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
NASA'S EARTH SCIENCE
AND CLIMATE CHANGE ACTIVITIES:
CURRENT ROLES AND FUTURE OPPORTUNITIES
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON SPACE AND AERONAUTICS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE,
AND TECHNOLOGY
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
MAY 18, 2021
__________
Serial No. 117-15
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
44-538 PDF WASHINGTON : 2023
COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
HON. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas, Chairwoman
ZOE LOFGREN, California FRANK LUCAS, Oklahoma,
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon Ranking Member
AMI BERA, California MO BROOKS, Alabama
HALEY STEVENS, Michigan, BILL POSEY, Florida
Vice Chair RANDY WEBER, Texas
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey BRIAN BABIN, Texas
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana
JERRY McNERNEY, California PETE SESSIONS, Texas
PAUL TONKO, New York DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida
BILL FOSTER, Illinois MIKE GARCIA, California
DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey STEPHANIE I. BICE, Oklahoma
DON BEYER, Virginia YOUNG KIM, California
CHARLIE CRIST, Florida RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois JAKE LaTURNER, Kansas
CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania CARLOS A. GIMENEZ, Florida
DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina JAY OBERNOLTE, California
GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin PETER MEIJER, Michigan
DAN KILDEE, Michigan VACANCY
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
VACANCY
------
Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics
HON. DON BEYER, Virginia, Chairman
ZOE LOFGREN, California BRIAN BABIN, Texas,
AMI BERA, California Ranking Member
BRAD SHERMAN, California MO BROOKS, Alabama
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado BILL POSEY, Florida
CHARLIE CRIST, Florida DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida
DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey YOUNG KIM, California
C O N T E N T S
May 18, 2021
Page
Hearing Charter.................................................. 2
Opening Statements
Statement by Representative Don Beyer, Chairman, Subcommittee on
Space and Aeronautics, Committee on Science, Space, and
Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...................... 9
Written Statement............................................ 10
Statement by Representative Brian Babin, Ranking Member,
Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics, Committee on Science,
Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives........... 11
Written Statement............................................ 12
Statement by Representative Frank Lucas, Ranking Member,
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of
Representatives................................................ 13
Written Statement............................................ 14
Written statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson,
Chairwoman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S.
House of Representatives....................................... 15
Witnesses:
Dr. Karen M. St. Germain, Division Director, Earth Sciences
Division, Science Mission Directorate, NASA
Oral Statement............................................... 16
Written Statement............................................ 19
Dr. Gavin Schmidt, Senior Climate Advisor (Acting) and Director
of Goddard Institute for Space Studies, NASA
Oral Statement............................................... 26
Written Statement............................................ 28
Mr. Riley Duren, Research Scientist, Office of Research,
Innovation, and Impact, University of Arizona; Chief Executive
Officer, Carbon Mapper, Inc.
Oral Statement............................................... 52
Written Statement............................................ 54
Mr. Robbie Schingler, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer,
Planet
Oral Statement............................................... 70
Written Statement............................................ 72
Discussion....................................................... 80
Appendix: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
Dr. Karen M. St. Germain, Division Director, Earth Sciences
Division, Science Mission Directorate, NASA.................... 98
Dr. Gavin Schmidt, Senior Climate Advisor (Acting) and Director
of Goddard Institute for Space Studies, NASA................... 106
Mr. Riley Duren, Research Scientist, Office of Research,
Innovation, and Impact, University of Arizona; Chief Executive
Officer, Carbon Mapper, Inc.................................... 110
Mr. Robbie Schingler, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer,
Planet......................................................... 112
NASA'S EARTH SCIENCE
AND CLIMATE CHANGE ACTIVITIES:
CURRENT ROLES AND FUTURE OPPORTUNITIES
----------
TUESDAY, MAY 18, 2021
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics,
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
Washington, D.C.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:01 a.m.,
via Zoom, Hon. Don Beyer [Chairman of the Subcommittee]
presiding.
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Beyer. This hearing will come to order. Without
objection, the Chair is authorized to declare recess at any
time.
And before delivering my opening remarks, I wanted to note
that, today, the Committee is meeting virtually. I want to
announce a couple reminders to the Members about the conduct of
this meeting. First, Members should keep their video feed on as
long as they are present in the hearing. Members are
responsible for their own microphones, and also please keep
your microphone muted unless you are speaking. And finally, if
Members have documents they wish to submit for the record,
please email them to the Committee Clerk, whose email address
was circulated prior to the hearing.
So good morning, and welcome today's hearing on ``NASA's
Earth Science and Climate Change Activities: Current Roles and
Future Opportunities.''
But first, I want to thank our panel of expert witnesses
for being here. There's no more important time for addressing
climate change and the health of our planet. Delaying action
risks everything--from increased exposure to heat waves, spread
of vector-borne diseases, drought, crop failures, and severe
weather. Actions taken and policies developed to respond to the
climate crisis must be informed by peer-reviewed science, and
that science starts with measurements, observations, and
research that leads to understanding.
That's where NASA (National Aeronautics and Space
Administration) comes in. For studying the Earth, space is the
ultimate vantage point. And thanks to NASA's fleet of space-
based science observations and measurements, we have long-term
research data sets that show the scientific signals of climate
change. Those signals, unlike short-term variations in
terrestrial weather, change over longer periods of time. NASA
Earth observation measurements also provide important inputs to
models that enable our ability to predict and forecast climate
change. And NASA satellite measurements contribute to studies
such as the National Climate Assessment, a scientific
assessment of climate change and its impacts across the United
States.
Beyond the data, satellite observations have the ability
to tell a compelling visual story such as the significant loss
of sea ice and glacier melt in the Arctic. Several astronauts
have remarked on their experiences of viewing the Earth from
space. In a Scientific American article issued just a few days
ago, former NASA astronaut Scott Kelly said, quote, ``During my
first mission in 1999 to fix the Hubble Space Telescope, I
remember passing over South America and being awed by the sheer
size of the Amazon rainforest. But on my last mission in 2016,
only 17 years later, burning and clearcutting were clearly
evident. After seeing the Earth dramatically change from this
unique perspective, I firmly believe that solving climate
change is the moonshot of the 21st century,'' end quote.
Closer to home, NASA satellite data are helping identify
algal blooms, and NASA and NOAA (National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration) satellite data are helping farmers
increase their efficient use of water resources for irrigation,
saving money and increasing profitability. These are just a few
examples that illustrate the value of NASA's Earth science
research to business, local resource managers, and
environmental decisionmakers.
NASA once referred to its Earth science activities as
``Mission to Planet Earth.'' In the midst of economic,
property, health, and environmental impacts from climate
change, it's clear we have an urgent mission before us. We need
to look at every opportunity to act now. Is there more than
NASA could and should do? Are there gaps in our scientific
understanding of the Earth system that need to be addressed?
Are there opportunities to expand the transition of research
into information tools?
And, of course, it's not just NASA. Other Federal research
agencies are working on climate change research and mitigation
efforts. Commercial satellite imaging companies,
philanthropists, and not-for-profit entities are ready and
willing to contribute to the climate challenge. And we need
them all. Where and how do they fit into an overall climate
strategy? How should NASA effectively partner with non-Federal
entities and also maintain free and open data?
In closing, the Nation is planning aggressive efforts to
mitigate the climate crisis, and we'll need to check our
progress. While NASA is not a regulatory agency and certainly
not the carbon police, how can space-based measurements
validate or check the effectiveness of mitigation strategies?
Where does NASA play a role?
Today's hearing is an important opportunity to consider
these and other questions, and I really look forward to hearing
from our distinguished witnesses.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Beyer follows:]
Good morning and welcome to today's hearing on ``NASA's
Earth Science and Climate Change Activities: Current Roles and
Future Opportunities''. First, I want to thank our panel of
expert witnesses for being here.
There is no more important time for addressing climate
change and the health of our planet. Delaying action risks
everything from increased exposure to heatwaves, spread of
vector-borne diseases, drought, crop failures, and severe
weather.
Actions taken and policies developed to respond to the
climate crisis must be informed by peer-reviewed science, and
that science starts with measurements, observations, and
research that leads to understanding.
That's where NASA comes in.
When studying the Earth, space is the ultimate vantage
point. Thanks to NASA's fleet of space-based science
observations and measurements, we have long-term research data
sets that show the scientific signals of climate change.
Those signals, unlike short-term variations in terrestrial
weather, change over longer time periods.
NASA Earth observation measurements also provide important
inputs to models that enable our ability to predict and
forecast climate change.
And NASA satellite measurements contribute to studies such
as the National Climate Assessment-a scientific assessment of
climate change and its impacts across the United States.
Beyond the data, satellite observations have the ability to
tell a compelling visual story, such as the significant loss of
sea ice and glacier melt in the Arctic.
Several astronauts have remarked on their experiences of
viewing the Earth from space. In a Scientific American article
issued just a few days ago, former NASA astronaut Scott Kelly
said, ``During my first mission, in 1999, to fix the Hubble
Space Telescope, I remember passing over South America and
being awed by the sheer size of the Amazon rainforest. On my
last mission in 2016, only 17 years later, burning and clear-
cutting were clearly evident. After seeing the Earth
dramatically change from this unique perspective, I firmly
believe that solving climate change is the moonshot of the 21st
century.''
Closer to home, NASA satellite data are helping identify
algal blooms, and NASA and NOAA satellite data are helping
farmers increase their efficient use of water resources for
irrigation--saving money and increasing profitability.
These are just a few examples that illustrate the value of
NASA's Earth science research to businesses, local resource
managers, and environmental decision makers.
NASA once referred to its Earth science activities as
``Mission to Planet Earth''.
In the midst of economic, property, health, and
environmental impacts from climate change, it's clear we have
an urgent mission before us.
We need to look at every opportunity to act now.
Is there more that NASA could and should do?
Are there gaps in our scientific understanding of
the Earth system that need to be addressed?
Are there opportunities to expand the transition
of research into information tools?
And it's not just NASA.
Other Federal research agencies are working on climate
change research and mitigation efforts.
Commercial satellite imaging companies, philanthropists,
and not-for-profit entities are ready and willing to contribute
to the climate challenge.
We need them all.
Where and how do they fit into to an overall climate
strategy? How should NASA effectively partner with non-Federal
entities, and also maintain free and open data?
In closing, the nation is planning aggressive efforts to
mitigate the climate crisis, and we'll need to check our
progress.
While NASA is not a regulatory agency or a carbon police,
how can space-based measurements validate or check the
effectiveness of mitigation strategies? Should NASA play a
role?
Today's hearing is an important opportunity to consider
these and other questions, and I look forward to hearing from
our witnesses.
And now I'd like to turn to the Ranking Member, the
gentleman from Texas, Dr. Brian Babin for his opening
statement.
Chairman Beyer. So let me--talking about distinguished,
let me turn to our Ranking Member, the gentleman from Texas, my
friend, Dr. Brian Babin, for his opening statement. Dr. Babin?
And, Brian, you are still muted for the moment.
Mr. Babin. How about now, Mr. Chairman? Can you hear me?
Chairman Beyer. You're good. Thank you.
Mr. Babin. OK. Yes, thank you very much. Great to be with
you. Looking forward to this hearing. It's particularly timely.
The Biden Administration has proposed increasing NASA's
Earth science budget by $300 million, which is a 12.5 percent
increase above fiscal year 2021-enacted levels. Since we don't
have other details about the proposed budget yet, we do not
know what impact this proposal will have on other aspects of
the agency or how the agency is proposing to spend this
increase.
While those details may be lacking at this moment, there
are a number of other initiatives currently underway at NASA
that we can certainly explore. For example, NASA received the
second Earth science decadal review from the National Academies
in 2018. This hearing is a great opportunity to understand how
NASA is responding to that report. Previous decadal surveys
highlighted NASA's unique role of developing first-of-a-kind
instruments that could then be transitioned to operational
agencies like NOAA and USGS (United States Geological Survey).
As NASA seeks to take on a more operational role in
maintaining observational data sets, it will be important for
Congress to understand the long-term impacts of this evolution
on other Earth science missions, on other science divisions, on
other elements of the agency like human exploration, as well as
the effects on the government and society as a whole.
Maintaining a balanced and sustainable portfolio of programs
that NASA could insulate specific programs from wild swings and
funding that complicate planning and operations.
One way that NASA can take on these new operational roles
without breaking the bank or impacting other programs is to
leverage the existing commercial remote-sensing industry.
Previous attempts to incorporate commercial data were met with
resistance from the government, and the industry was still in
its infancy at that time. The commercial remote industry is
much more robust today, and agencies are much more receptive to
incorporating data from novel sources. NASA initiated a data
buy pilot project in 2017 and, more recently, stood up a formal
data acquisition program.
One near-term decision related to leveraging the
commercial remote-sensing industry is Landsat. The Landsat
program has provided world-class multi-decade 30 meter
resolution of Earth's surface. Last year, the Administration
announced that it was undertaking a Landsat architecture study
to explore novel ways to maintain the Landsat data set. As the
former Director of USGS stated at the time, quote, ``Rather
than one single large satellite bus, which is what Landsat has
been historically, we've looked at other options. The
revolution in space is underway, and we'll want to capitalize
on that as much as we possibly can,'' unquote.
Despite progress made toward this effort over the last
several years, NASA issued a request for information, an RFI,
for a Landsat Next instrument studies that may deviate from
this plan and return a business-as-usual approach. U.S. law and
national policy directs NASA to advance the commercial space
sector. Title 51 of the U.S. code directs NASA to ``seek and
encourage to the maximum extent possible the fullest commercial
use of space.'' NASA is also directed to ``acquire, where cost-
effective, space-based and airborne Earth remote-sensing data,
services, distribution, and applications from a commercial
provider.''
Both the 2014 National Plan for Civil Earth Observations
and the 2015 National Space Weather Action Plan direct Federal
agencies to identify and pursue commercial solutions. More
recently, the 2019 National Plan for Civil Earth Observations
directed agencies to strive to engage with the full Earth
observations enterprise to determine whether there is a
commercial solution available or end process that might be more
appropriate than creation of a new Federal observing asset.
These policies were also reinforced in the most recent decadal
survey for Earth science.
I look very much forward to discussing how NASA plans to
incorporate commercial remote-sensing data to maximize taxpayer
dollars spent on Earth science. So thank you, and I yield back
the balance of my time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Babin follows:]
Today's hearing is particularly timely. The Biden
Administration proposed increasing NASA's Earth Science budget
by $300 million--a 12.5 percent increase above FY21 enacted
levels. Since we don't have other details about the proposed
budget yet, we do not know what impact this proposal will have
on other aspects of the agency, or how the agency is proposing
to spend this increase. While those details may be lacking at
this moment, there are a number of other initiatives currently
underway at NASA that we can explore.
For example, NASA received the second Earth science decadal
review from the National Academies in 2018. This hearing is a
great opportunity to understanding how NASA is responding to
that report. Previous decadal surveys highlighted NASA's unique
role of developing first-of-a-kind instruments that could then
be transitioned to operational agencies like NOAA and USGS. As
NASA seeks to take on a more operational role in maintaining
observational datasets, it will be important for Congress to
understand the long-term impacts of this evolution on other
Earth science missions, on other science divisions, on other
elements of the agency like human exploration, as well as the
effects on the government and society as a whole. Maintaining a
balanced and sustainable portfolio of programs at NASA could
insulate specific programs from wild swings in funding that
complicate planning and operations.
One way NASA can take on these new operational roles
without breaking the bank or impacting other programs is to
leverage the existing commercial remote sensing industry.
Previous attempts to incorporate commercial data were met with
resistance from the government, and the industry was still in
its infancy at the time. The commercial remote industry is much
more robust today, and agencies are much more receptive to
incorporating data from novel sources. NASA initiated a data
buy pilot project in 2017, and more recently stood up a formal
Data Acquisition Program.
One near-term decision related to leveraging the commercial
remote sensing industry is Landsat. The Landsat program has
provided world-class, multi-decade, 30 meter resolution of
Earth's surface. Last year the Administration announced that it
was undertaking a Landsat architecture study to explore novel
ways to maintain the Landsat dataset. As the former director of
the USGS stated at the time, ``[r]ather than one single large
satellite bus, which is what Landsat has been historically,
we've looked at other options.[t]he revolution in space is
underway and we'll want to capitalize on that as much as we
possibly can.'' Despite progress made towards this effort over
the last several years, NASA issued a request for information
(RFI) for Landsat Next instrument studies that may deviate from
this plan and return a business as usual approach.
U.S. law and national policy directs NASA to advance the
commercial space sector. Title 51 of the U.S. Code direct NASA
to, ``seek and encourage, to the maximum extent possible, the
fullest commercial use of space.'' NASA is also directed to
``acquire, where cost-effective, space based and airborne Earth
remote sensing data, services, distribution, and applications
from a commercial provider.''
Both the 2014 National Plan for Civil Earth Observations
and the 2015 National Space Weather Action Plan direct Federal
agencies to identify and pursue commercial solutions. More
recently, the 2019 National Plan for Civil Earth Observations
directed agencies to ``strive to engage with the full Earth
Observations Enterprise to determine whether there is a
commercial solution available or in process that might be more
appropriate than creation of a Federal observing asset.'' These
policies were also reinforced in the most recent decadal survey
for Earth science.
I look forward to discussing how NASA plans to incorporate
commercial remote sensing data to maximize taxpayer dollars
spent on Earth science. Thank you, and I yield back the balance
of my time.
Chairman Beyer. Dr. Babin, thank you very much. I really
appreciate your insights.
Mr. Babin. Yes, sir.
Chairman Beyer. And now let me recognize the Ranking
Member of the Full Science Committee, its Chairman Emeritus,
Mr. Lucas from Oklahoma.
Mr. Lucas. Thank you for holding this hearing, Mr.
Chairman.
Today's hearing is an important opportunity for the
Committee to engage in oversight of NASA's current and future
Earth science and climate activities. I'm looking forward to
discussing how the agency can best utilize resources within
existing budgets and how it can use additional resources.
NASA's mandate to research Earth's atmosphere dates back to the
passage of NASA's Organic Act in 1958, which stated, ``NASA
shall seek the expansion of human knowledge of phenomena in the
atmosphere and space.'' That mission has evolved through the
decades as our technical capacity and scientific knowledge have
increased.
Today, the Earth Science Division of NASA oversees a broad
range of activities and missions, including managing a variety
of ongoing Earth observation missions, planning future
missions, and sharing the data collected from these missions
with the scientific community and the public. NASA is currently
operating more than a dozen Earth science missions in tandem
with international partners and other Federal agencies and has
a dozen more missions slated to launch in the decade ahead.
These missions provide a new generation of satellites and
instruments to monitor and provide data about Earth's changing
climate and the scientific community.
Today's hearing represents an opportunity to evaluate
NASA's Earth science and climate partnerships within the
Federal Government with international partners and with the
private sector. This Committee has an opportunity and an
obligation to consider whether these partnerships work in the
most effective manner and if the agency would benefit from new
approaches to these partnerships.
Our panel represents a cross-section of government, the
nonprofit sector, and industry, and that is appropriate as all
three sectors must work together to provide the best knowledge
to the scientific community.
Today's hearing is timely. The commercial remote-sensing
industry has come a long way in a very short period of time.
New remote-sensing technologies have made images of Earth more
accessible. The images and data made available by commercial
providers are of great value to any number of consumers,
whether it's in the public safety officials, in the West
managing forest, or farmers in Oklahoma growing crops.
As the author of NOAA's Commercial Weather Data Buy
program and the Commercial Data Buy program in the space
weather legislation passed last Congress, I have long
championed the ability of commercial remote-sensing industry to
fill gaps in the Federal Earth observation abilities. To be
clear, this does not mean that the commercial sector would
replace the government's role but instead complement it and
provide more cost-effective and novel solutions.
We'll hear testimony today about how the commercial sector
is helping fill this need, as well as how NASA could increase
its utilization.
I look forward and thank our witnesses today for sharing
their perspectives on this topic, and I expect a productive
discussion about how this community can insure NASA's Earth
science and climate activities can be made even more efficient
and cost-effective moving forward.
Again, Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the hearing, and I
yield back the balance of my time.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Lucas follows:]
Thank you for holding this hearing, Mr. Chairman. Today's
hearing is an important opportunity for the Committee to engage
in oversight of NASA's current and future earth science and
climate activities. I'm looking forward to discussing how the
agency can best utilize resources within existing budgets and
how it would use additional resources.
NASA's mandate to research Earth's atmosphere dates back to
the passage of NASA's Organic Act in 1958, which stated NASA
shall seek the ``expansion of human knowledge of phenomena in
the atmosphere and space.'' That mission has evolved through
the decades as our technical capacity and scientific knowledge
have increased. Today, the Earth Science Division at NASA
oversees a broad range of activities and missions, including
managing a variety of ongoing Earth observation missions,
planning future missions, and sharing the data collected from
these missions with the scientific community and the public.
NASA is currently operating more than a dozen Earth science
missions in tandem with international partners and other
federal agencies, and has a dozen more missions slated to
launch in the decade ahead. These missions provide a new
generation of satellites and instruments to monitor and provide
data about Earth's changing climate to the scientific
community.
Today's hearing represents an opportunity to evaluate
NASA's Earth science and climate partnerships within the
federal government, with international partners, and with the
private sector. This Committee has an obligation to consider
whether these partnerships work in the most effective manner
and if the agency would benefit from new approaches to these
partnerships. Our panel represents a cross-section of
government, the non-profit sector, and industry. And that is
appropriate as all three sectors must work together to provide
the best knowledge to the scientific community.
Today's hearing is timely. The commercial remote sensing
industry has come a long way in a very short period of time.
New remote sensing technologies have made images of Earth more
accessible. The images and data made available by commercial
providers are of great value to any number of consumers,
whether it is public safety officials in the west managing
forests, or farmers in Oklahoma growing crops.
As the author of NOAA's commercial weather data buy program
and the commercial data buy program in the space weather
legislation passed last Congress, I have long championed the
ability of the commercial remote sensing industry to fill gaps
in federal earth observation abilities. To be clear, this does
not mean that the commercial sector would replace the
government's role, but instead complement it and provide more
cost- effective and novel solutions. We will hear testimony
today about how the commercial sector is helping fill this need
as well as how NASA could increase its utilization.
I want to thank our witnesses today for sharing their
perspectives on this topic. I look forward to a productive
discussion about how this Committee can ensure NASA's Earth
Science and climate activities can be made more efficient and
cost-effective moving forward.
I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Ranking Member Lucas, very
much.
[The prepared statement of Chairwoman Johnson follows:]
Thank you Chairman Beyer for holding today's hearing on
NASA's climate change activities. I'm pleased that the Space
and Aeronautics Subcommittee is taking a close look at NASA's
Earth science and climate change work. Because from the
agency's first Earth observing satellites over 60 years ago,
NASA has been a cornerstone of the nation's Earth science and
climate research activities.
The Committee on Science, Space, and Technology initiated
the Global Change Research Act in 1990, over 30 years ago. NASA
is just one of thirteen agencies involved, but its Earth
science and climate research efforts have been a major
contributor to the US Global Change Research Program developed
in response to the 1990 Act.
A lot has happened since 1990. Based on the research and
observations of our agencies over these last decades, climate
change has gone from study to crisis. The work of the Committee
on Science, Space, and Technology is now considering how our
Nation's research and development efforts can address this
crisis. Science must remain at the center, both in our
continuing work to understand climate change, but also in our
efforts to mitigate it and help communities respond to it.
NASA also has a role in advancing innovative technologies
and approaches to sustainable aviation. I'm pleased that the
Biden Administration is taking aggressive steps to address the
climate crisis. This challenge requires that we examine every
opportunity to leverage capabilities, partnerships, and
consider potential options for further contributions. Today's
hearing will take an important step toward that end, and I look
forward to our witness' testimony.
Thank you and I yield back.
Chairman Beyer. At this time, I'd like to introduce our
witnesses. Our first witness is Dr. Karen St. Germain. Dr. St.
Germain is the Division Director for NASA's Earth Science
Division within the Science Mission Directorate. Dr. St.
Germain received a bachelor of science degree in electrical
engineering from Union College, a doctor of philosophy degree
in electrical engineering from the University of Massachusetts.
So welcome, Dr. St. Germain.
Our second witness is Dr. Gavin Schmidt, Acting Senior
Advisor in Climate Science to the NASA Administrator and the
Director of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies. Dr.
Schmidt received a first-class bachelor of arts degree in
mathematics from Oxford University and a doctorate on the
calculation scattering and stability of topographic Rossby
waves from University College London. I hope you're going to
talk about those scatterings. So welcome, Dr. Schmidt.
Our third witness is Mr. Riley Duren, a Research Scientist
at the University of Arizona and Chief Executive Officer (CEO)
of the Carbon Mapper, a nonprofit organization. He also
maintains part-time employment as an Engineering Fellow at
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL). Mr. Duren received a
bachelor of science in electrical engineering from Auburn
University. Welcome, Mr. Duren.
And our final witness is Mr. Robbie Schingler, an
entrepreneur, cofounder of Planet labs, and a former NASA
Engineer and Program Manager with more than 20 years of
experience building satellite projects. Mr. Schingler received
a bachelor of science in engineering physics from Santa Clara
University, a bachelor of science in space studies from
International Space University, and a master of business
administration from Georgetown University. Welcome, Mr.
Schingler.
So we will start in the order just introduced. Dr. St.
Germain, the floor is yours for your opening statement.
TESTIMONY OF DR. KAREN M. ST. GERMAIN,
DIVISION DIRECTOR, EARTH SCIENCES DIVISION,
SCIENCE MISSION DIRECTORATE, NASA
Dr. St. Germain. Chairman Beyer, Ranking Member Babin,
Members of the Subcommittee, thank you so much for the
opportunity to speak today on NASA's contributions as a global
leader in Earth science.
NASA holds a unique position as the only space agency with
integrated end-to-end Earth observing capability from building
and flying satellites to research, data systems, and delivery
of science applications. Today, I'll testify on how NASA's
Earth science expertise advances our understanding of how to
adapt to and ultimately thrive on our changing planet.
The science of the last 20 years has settled the question
of whether our planet's climate is changing. What we must do
over the coming 20 years is to better understand Earth systems,
those interactions between land, ocean, air and ice, and human
communities so we can improve our predictions of how our
environment might change. Those predictions are essential for
policymakers such as this Committee to make decisions on
mitigation, adaption, and resilience.
There is no better vantage point than space to collect the
Earth data that is the foundation of our science, our models,
and our predictive capability. Today, NASA flies 23 space-based
observing systems in addition to the satellites we build for
our partner agencies, USGS and NOAA.
NASA systems measure greenhouse gases and sea level rise.
They monitor fire weather and detect soil moisture and crop
stress, just to name a few. We combine our observations with
data from our strategic partners and commercial Earth
observation companies to investigate complex questions that lay
the foundation for modeling prediction and scientifically sound
information. This is important because these are the models and
information products that inform decisionmakers at every level
on imperatives like ensuring a safe and ample supply of
drinking water, maintaining our Nation's ability to feed
itself, and building community resilience and safety from
extreme weather events.
To meet this demand for information, NASA Earth science is
accelerating work in three key areas: observations, modeling
and informatics, and applications and dissemination. I'm going
to touch on each of these areas briefly.
NASA is observing--advancing observations capabilities by
investing in technology innovation, exploring alternative
observation platforms, new approaches to industry partnership
and commercial services, and expanding collaboration with our
international partners. And I'll say more about those specific
plans in just a moment.
Modeling and informatics further our understanding and
prediction of the whole-Earth system by extracting scientific
understanding from the measurements and capturing that
understanding in models and frameworks that span timescales
from minutes to decades and spatial scales ranging from
continents to individual agricultural fields.
Finally, in applications and dissemination, we're
dramatically accelerating the delivery and use of scientific
understanding. We're working through open science and
accessibility principles to ensure our data and information are
within reach, especially to previously underserved communities.
And we are creating scalable science applications to meet the
needs at every level of decisionmaking.
Returning to the topic of NASA space-based observation
capability, the National Academies of Science laid out an
ambitious but critical observation objectives in its 2017 Earth
science decadal survey. NASA intends to meet those objectives
through an array of space-based satellites, instruments, and
missions that we're calling the Earth system observatory. These
measurements will help us answer critical open questions about
the Earth system. We'll observe aerosols in our atmosphere and
how they interact with clouds, convection, and precipitation to
tackle the largest natural uncertainty in predicting climate
change while improving severe weather and air quality
forecasting. We'll track minute local changes in our Earth's
mass, which will inform drought predictions and help local
water managers make decisions about agricultural and municipal
water supplies. And our surface biology and geology
observations will improve our understanding of how climate
change affects food production and ecosystems.
Finally, by monitoring changes in our Earth's surface,
we'll be better--we will better predict sea level rise in
events such as earthquakes, volcanoes, and landslides.
Together, these observations will capture a three-dimensional
view of our Earth from atmosphere to bedrock, and we're now
starting the first phase of mission planning.
NASA is advancing not just what we're doing but how we're
doing it. We're dedicated to open science and diversity, more
partnership with the commercial sector, and new business models
to rapidly onboard advances in technology.
Around the end of this decade, almost another billion
people will live on our planet, putting more pressure on
Earth's resources and increasing demand for actionable
information. Climate change demands science equal to the
challenge it presents. NASA is moving to meet this challenge,
accelerating our science, our international and interagency
partnerships, and exploring new ways to do business.
Thank you for the opportunity to discuss NASA's Earth
science program, and I'd be pleased to respond any questions
you might have.
[The prepared statement of Dr. St. Germain follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Beyer. Thank you very much, Dr. St. Germain.
We'll have plenty of questions for you, I'm sure.
Now, let me recognize Dr. Gavin Schmidt for his testimony.
TESTIMONY OF DR. GAVIN SCHMIDT,
SENIOR CLIMATE ADVISOR (ACTING)
AND DIRECTOR OF GODDARD INSTITUTE
FOR SPACE STUDIES, NASA
Dr. Schmidt. Chairman Beyer, Ranking Member Babin, Members
of the Subcommittee, my name is Gavin Schmidt, and I'm the
director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies and
the Acting Senior Advisor on Climate to the NASA Administrator.
Today, I would like to share with you the breadth and
depth of NASA's work on climate, covering pure scientific
research, technology development, applied science, education,
as well as the efforts to reduce the agency's own emissions and
build greater resilience.
NASA is the lead agency for civil aeronautics research and
for scientific research that can be productively studied from
space, acknowledging that practical benefits for society are
always an important measure of success. NASA is specifically
tasked with ensuring public access to accurate data on global
warming.
Since the late 19th century, global surface temperatures
have risen more than 1 degree Celsius, 2 degrees Fahrenheit.
Sea level has risen by about 12 inches since 1900 and 3
millimeters per year right now. These broad changes are already
having a direct impact on communities in the United States and
internationally.
We track most of the factors driving climate change and
investigate the processes that underlie the emergent patterns
of climate variability. My colleague Dr. Karen St. Germain has
already expanded on these topics in her testimony today.
Research connections on climate also include NASA's
Heliophysics Division and the Planetary Science Division under
the broad umbrella of Astrobiology. NASA's climate portfolio
also encompasses research into sustainable aviation and space
technology transfer focused on clean energy and environmental
modeling--monitoring.
NASA is investing in industry partnerships that will
develop the next generation of single-aisle aircraft that will
be at least 25 percent more fuel-efficient by the early 2030's.
We will award contracts for the first-ever high-powered hybrid
electric propulsion system for large transport aircraft by the
end of summer 2021 with flight demonstrations of an electrified
powertrain expected as early as 2023.
NASA is also providing solutions to the challenge of all
electric flight through development and flight tests of the X-
57 airplane. A 2018 competition developed in partnership with
the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, focused on an aerosol
monitor that could be used both on the International Space
Station and in urban polluted environments. Another NASA prize
competition, the CO2 Conversion Challenge, seeks to
create a carbon-neutral manufacturing system that can be used
in space, as well as on Earth.
NASA has partnered with local government entities. For
instance in New York, NASA input into the city's climate change
panel has been important in helping set new standards and
planning guidelines.
NASA also partners with other agencies such as the
Department of Energy and NOAA and through the USGCRP (U.S.
Global Change Research Program) to help coordinate global
change research across the Federal Government. NASA is
participating in the White House's National Climate Task Force
and the Climate Innovation Working Group.
Internationally, NASA has partnerships with space agencies
across the world to develop, launch, and maintain platforms and
instruments for long-term climate data. NASA's GLOBE (Global
Learning and Observation to Benefit the Environment) and
AERONET (Aerosol Robotic Network) programs and SERVIR, a joint
NASA and USAID (United States Agency for International
Development) initiative, collectively have a presence in nearly
125 countries.
NASA recognizes that rising sea levels and increasing
hurricane activity along the Gulf Coast will have significant
impacts on our ability to fulfill our mission and that we must
implement protective measures in order to reduce our risks.
Center master plans now include sustainability as a key goal.
And, since 2008, NASA has seen a consistent downward trend in
its own greenhouse gas emissions.
For education and outreach, NASA's Science Activation
program enables NASA science and experts to--and content to
engage learners of all ages. NASA reaches upper elementary-aged
children through ClimateKids.NASA.gov while Climate.NASA.gov is
a top public website with almost 10 million annual visitors.
Recently, NASA has convened the Climate Strategy Working
Group to develop a more integrated approach to the agency's
climate portfolio and to address the Administration's priority
for a governmentwide approach in response to the climate
crisis. Additionally, we are creating a climate action plan to
further build resilience and educate management on the need to
embed climate change mitigation and adaptation into our
decisionmaking procedures.
NASA has long recognized that climate science is a
fundamental part of our mandate. With the increasing evidence
for serious impacts and the elevation of this topic by the
Administration, it is time for a renewed focus on all aspects
of climate change and a commitment to ensure that this data and
understanding will continue to accumulate and be used for the
benefit of society. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Schmidt follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Beyer. Dr. Schmidt, thank you very much.
Now, I would recognize Mr. Riley Duren for your testimony.
TESTIMONY OF MR. RILEY DUREN, RESEARCH SCIENTIST,
OFFICE OF RESEARCH, INNOVATION, AND IMPACT,
UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA;
CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CARBON MAPPER, INC.
Mr. Duren. Thank you, Chair Beyer, Ranking Member Babin,
Members of the Subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to
contribute today. This is really an important discussion. And
I'll start by saying that simply by convening this hearing,
you're already taking, I think, an important step in
highlighting a persistent gap in U.S. climate policy
discussions.
Satellite observations and data in general are critical
not only for basic climate research but also enabling science-
based decisionmaking by a broad cross-section of society. So
NASA and its partners absolutely belong in these discussions,
and thank you for highlighting this topic.
As lawmakers consider investments in the Nation's physical
infrastructure, it's also important to recognize the urgent
need to address gaps in critical data infrastructure that can
inform efforts to minimize climate impacts and improve overall
environmental resiliency in United States and the world. As an
example of data gaps and opportunities for improvement, I'd
like to describe a new public-private partnership that's
leveraging NASA science and technology to deploy a global
decision support system for quantifying, tracking, and
supporting mitigation of greenhouse gas emissions.
In recent years, there has been a growing number of public
and private sector actors that have signaled an interest in
reducing their methane and carbon dioxide emissions, including
ambitious decarbonization targets by some of the world's
leading economies and major oil and gas companies. Notable
field studies over the years by many groups have conclusively
identified the existence of so-called methane super-emitters
where a relatively small fraction of infrastructure is
responsible for a disproportionate amount of emissions.
My own NASA-funded research team used advanced remote
sensing aircraft to conduct the first comprehensive economywide
survey of methane emissions in California. We found that less
than .2 percent of the infrastructure in the State is
responsible for over 1/3 of California's entire methane
inventory. Many of these super-emitters are highly
intermittent, they're widely dispersed over the landscape and
they're difficult to find typically with conventional surface
measurements.
If you can cue the movie, please. Great, thanks.
[Video shown.]
Mr. Duren. So our recent airborne surveys with NASA
aircraft over the Permian oil and gas basin and other regions
around the United States add to this body of evidence. What
you're seeing here is a false color movie taken from a NASA
aircraft at 18,000 feet looking at methane plumes. And this
offers a vivid illustration that these super-emitters are
broadly distributed across the landscape almost like invisible
wildfires, and they mostly go unseen even by operators who are
otherwise motivated to fix leaks to avoid product loss.
So oil and gas companies that have reviewed our data
indicate that at least half of the methane super-emitters were
detected are the result of leaks and malfunctions that were
previously unknown. So this suggests low-hanging fruit if you
will for near-term progress. The idea here is that a high-
fidelity constellation of satellites could offer daily
facility-scale methane monitoring over key regions globally to
alert operators and regulators of leaks for more timely and
cost-effective repairs.
However, in practice, this means confronting both
technical and institutional barriers. No single organization
today has the mandate, resources, or even the culture to field
this kind of decision support system, at least not quickly or
affordably at scale. In this case, the challenges are the
necessary remote-sensing technology is currently unavailable
outside of NASA. NASA itself lacks the capacity to launch large
constellations of satellites. There's no existing government
program to finance the buildout of such a system. Sustaining
these systems once you establish them is difficult, given
shifting Federal priorities. And purely commercial services may
lack the transparency needed for global public trust and
adoption.
So to confront these challenges, we've established a new
nonprofit organization called Carbon Mapper and a public-
private partnership that includes remote-sensing technology
transfer from NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab, Planet's agile
aerospace approach to deploying constellation, science
leadership from the University of Arizona and ASU (Arizona
State University), policy expertise and data transparency
enabled through California and our nonprofit partners, all
powered by philanthropy. Philanthropy is paying for the startup
of this program.
I know speak for other partners in thanking Dr. St.
Germain from NASA and Mr. Schingler from Planet and their teams
for their vision and support in establishing this program.
And in closing, effective responses to climate change and
other environmental challenges require action by a cross-
section of society, including governments, businesses and
private citizens. And the same applies to generating robust
data and shared awareness to inform those actions. We don't
have time as a species for delayed action or false starts
because of incomplete data or monolithic approaches. We need
the best possible science and systems engineering creativity of
organizations like NASA to enable new innovative efforts to
deliver action climate data. And we need the help of Congress
in helping us support and recognize these efforts. Thank you
very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Duren follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Beyer. Mr. Duren, thank you very much. We really
appreciate that fascinating overflight.
And now let me recognize our final witness, Mr. Schingler,
for your testimony.
TESTIMONY OF MR. ROBBIE SCHINGLER,
CO-FOUNDER AND CHIEF STRATEGY OFFICER, PLANET
Mr. Schingler. Chairman Beyer, Ranking Member Babin,
Chairwoman Johnson, Ranking Member Lucas, and Members of the
Subcommittee, I'm honored to appear before you today to discuss
the important role that commercial companies are playing in
supporting NASA's Earth science and climate change mission and
the opportunities NASA has to better leverage the commercial
enterprise to meet their scientific and climate goals.
I had the privilege to join NASA during my undergraduate
studies. It forged my professional life with 9 years of service
that set the conditions for my founding role at Planet. I'm
proud to be inspired, trained, and influenced by NASA.
Now, everyone knows the big new rockets being developed
today, but few people are aware of the renaissance occurring in
satellites that orbit our planet. It's a bit like the
transition from the mainframe computer to the desktop computer,
putting the power of knowledge about the Earth into the hands
of more of society. And over the last decade, this has resulted
in a 1,000-fold increase in capability per dollar.
This dramatic improvement means more data for more
applications. For example, Planet captures an image of the
entire landmass of the Earth every day, powered by the world's
largest constellation of Earth observation satellites in
history. This data set accelerates our understanding of land-
use change, biodiversity, and climate science, while also
helping farmers increase agricultural yield, companies monitor
supply chains, and governments prepare for and respond to
natural disasters.
I'm convinced that only the American market-based risk
capital ecosystem could create Planet 10 years ago. Congress
and this Committee has been instrumental in that proud history.
Given the urgency to make strides in climate science, the
benefit of massive investment from capital markets in the
satellite industry, combined with innovation and a lasting
foundation of U.S. Government systems, I'm confident we can
work together to make an even brighter future.
To that end, I respectfully offer a few recommendations
for your consideration. This Committee can support NASA and the
commercial U.S. remote-sensing sector by bringing the
Commercial Smallsat Data Acquisition Program into statute in
the next NASA authorization bill.
In 2017, under the leadership of Thomas Zurbuchen, NASA,
OMB (Office of Management and Budget), and Congress saw the
potential of value that U.S. commercial remote-sensing
companies could bring to Earth and climate scientists. They set
out to understand the scientific viability of these new data
sets, and it led to the Commercial Smallsat Data Acquisition
Program. This is a huge success from my perspective, and NASA
is actively bringing on new commercial companies and expanding
the scientific user community with Federal civilian agencies.
Investments in commercial remote-sensing capabilities
fused with government-operated sensors drive innovation, power
job creation, and lead U.S. universities and researchers--
research centers on a path to excellence. I urge this Committee
to bring in the Commercial Smallsat Data Acquisition Program
into statute in the next NASA authorization bill and robustly
fund the program to reflect the growth and value it is
demonstrating in the scientific community.
As NASA is creating their next flagship missions,
including the Landsat Next program, NASA should incorporate the
planned viable commercial capabilities into their procurement
strategies and see commercial capabilities as a forethought
rather than an afterthought.
Now, let me be clear. Commercial constellations do not
replace national systems. They complement, improve, and enable
national systems to more affordably push the scientific
frontiers. When there are reliable commercial Earth observation
systems, the national systems can stretch even further to
enhance our understanding of the planet.
Finally, we advocate for a whole-of-civil-government
approach to commercial data buys. Embrace a whole-of-civil-
government approach to making scientifically accurate and
factual Earth observation data available. Put another way, you
can't manage what you can't measure, and this community has the
information to bring us to a common operating picture to better
manage our society. These efforts to purchase commercial data
for both scientific and operational use cases across all
civilian agencies could be led by NASA in partnership with NOAA
and USGS.
So as I conclude, allow me to thank the Committee for
including a voice from the U.S. commercial sector in this
important hearing. As Congress and the Biden Administration
look to focus on climate programs, this conversation is well-
timed to highlight the important role that remote-sensing
satellites, both national assets and commercial constellations,
have in providing the data needed to empower better decisions
by Federal agencies, State and local governments, communities,
companies, and individuals.
Planet is a committed partner to NASA and will provide
innovative commercial services to equip America's Earth-
observing community with the tools to lead in this increasingly
competitive international landscape. You can be confident, as I
am, that U.S. remote-sensing companies deliver new data sets
and novel tools to enable governments, societies, and
businesses to make better decisions and guide humanity toward a
more secure and sustainable future.
Thank you, and I look forward to your questions and our
exciting future ahead.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Schingler follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Beyer. Mr. Schingler, thank you very much, all
fascinating. And now we'll begin our round of questions. I get
to go first by virtue of this Chairmanship, so let me begin
with Dr. St. Germain.
We just heard from both Mr. Duren and Mr. Schingler about
all that is happening on the commercial side in terms of data,
Planet having more satellites tracking what's going on Earth
than anyone else. How do you feel about and what are your
thoughts about this ever-growing possible partnership between
our public NASA and our commercial companies?
Dr. St. Germain. Thank you for the question. I couldn't be
more excited--I just muted. There we go. I think we're back. I
couldn't be more excited about the possibilities enabled by all
of the growth in commercial Earth observation in both
directions. I think, as Robbie said, the capabilities that the
commercial sector is bringing to science are very exciting.
They absolutely complement our government systems, and they
expand the scope of the science we can do. And in the other
direction, Riley talked about bringing NASA technology out into
the commercial sector to enable future commercial capabilities,
and I think that is just as exciting. So I am thrilled and
really looking forward in this position to exploring new ways
of partnering with the commercial sector. Thank you.
Chairman Beyer. Great, thank you. And, Riley, you talked
about, you know, the super-emitters, the methane with that
great flyover and that only 1/3 of the--2/10 of 1 percent of
the infrastructures were responsible for 1/3 of the State's
methane emission. How does that compare to the other greenhouse
gas emissions from transportation, from buildings, from
manufacturing? Is methane just a tiny piece of this or if you
can fix those flares, can you make a significant difference?
Mr. Duren. Yes, great question. What I like to say about
greenhouse gases, like many things on the planet, is it's a
mixed bag. Methane tends to be leaky in the way it manifests,
and the best way I can describe it as if you have a sprinkler
system in your yard, you're eventually going to have a leak.
That doesn't mean that the sprinklers are necessarily spraying
water all over the place, but when it happens, you know, you
find out when you look your water bill. If you're lucky, you
see the geyser shooting up, you know, in the front yard. So
that tends to be the nature of methane associated with human
activity, whether it's the energy sector, the waste management
sector, or even agriculture. It's very--it tends to be very
leaky, and therefore, it can occur randomly and it's difficult
to predict.
That's different generally speaking than some of the other
greenhouse gas emissions but in particular CO2
emissions from the transportation sector. Imagine that being
spread out over freeway systems or through other transportation
vehicles.
And so I guess what I would say is your mileage varies so
to speak, and it is--it's very different by sector. And the
technology I talked about addresses one part of the greenhouse
gas monitoring challenge. It really focuses on these leaky
point sources for methane and CO2, for example,
stationary power plants. We need a broader constellation of
systems or system of systems as we like to say in NASA system
engineering world, to address the full landscape, and that's
part of what we have between what we talked about with Carbon
Mapper, NASA's existing program, and programs with other
international space agencies, as well as commercial actors with
instruments on the ground, not just space.
Chairman Beyer. Cool, very cool, thanks. Mr. Schingler,
you talked about NASA's Commercial Smallsat Data Acquisition
Program. As you probably know, the Senate folded NASA's
reauthorization into its Endless Frontiers Act last week. Did
that include the Small Data--Smallsat Data Acquisition Program?
Mr. Schingler. To my knowledge, Chairman, that does not
include this--the NASA Smallsat Data Acquisition Program in its
current form.
Chairman Beyer. So we still have a ways to go, OK, great,
because we're about--hopefully later this year we will take up
NASA reauthorization.
And then, Dr. Schmidt, one of the things you talked about
was the many, many different players you have, and in your new
role on the Climate Task Force, how do you coordinate all these
people that want to be part of providing information on climate
change?
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you very much for the question. Yes,
no, that's a real challenge, and as I've stepped into this new
role, that has really been the dominant theme of what we've
been doing. We've been bringing together all of the people who
are working with external partners, and we're trying to collate
that information and we're going to make that more visible and
then we'll be able to see I think where the gaps are, where the
successes are, and where we may be able to roll out a broader
use of the information and data that NASA provides.
Chairman Beyer. It sounds like the invasion of Normandy,
but good luck, so----
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you.
Chairman Beyer. Well, my time is up. Let me now recognize
our Ranking Member, Dr. Brian Babin.
Mr. Babin. OK, thank you very much, Chairman Beyer. I want
to say thank you to our witnesses as well. I appreciate you
being here.
Mr. Schingler, your testimony highlights issues with the
Landsat architecture in a recent instrument study pre-
solicitation. Please allow me to read from your testimony.
``Unfortunately, the commercial community is receiving mixed
messages from the Landsat Next program at NASA and USGS.
Recently, material and unexplained changes and inconsistencies
between the Landsat Next instrument study pre-solicitation
published on February the 18th, 2021, and the Landsat Next RFI
published on October 13 of 2020 suggests that rather than
looking for novel new approaches to meet and exceed the Landsat
Next mission requirements, the NASA Landsat Next team has
predetermined the constellation and instrument structure for
Landsat Next. In the most recent instrument study, NASA
included requirements that respondents to the study assumed
prescribed and specific orbital attitude and minimum swath
width that favor a more traditional and expensive architecture
toward large satellite designs. Such prescriptive requirements,
particularly in the early study, will limit innovation in the
Landsat Next architecture, constraining what NASA may learn
from the instrument study and may ultimately restrict the
Landsat Next mission to coarser spatial resolution and lower
revisit rate. These outcomes are likely to negatively impact
the Landsat user community and result in an inefficient use of
U.S. taxpayer resources. The effect of such requirements during
an instrument study could be to limit the possible responses or
offerors and predetermine the instruments and architecture for
the Landsat Next system,'' unquote. Can anything be done, Mr.
Schingler, to ensure an unbiased solicitation, or will it
require legislative action? Thank you.
Mr. Schingler. Thank you for the question, and I think by
highlighting the benefits of what has already happened with
NASA on the commercial side with the Commercial Smallsat Data
Program and the scientific utility that's coming out of that, I
think it can better inform the program office in how they come
about procuring the next generation of systems for Landsat. And
for the Committee to recognize, this is something to be
launched later on this decade. We do need to think about 5
years ago what was available and what can be available 5 years
from now.
As we are seeing also with the European Union Copernicus
program and their planned upcoming constellations, we should be
thinking about these, as Riley was saying, as a system of
systems, which is what are the needed data gaps that allow for
these free and open data sources provided by governments to be
interoperable with one another. It is no one sensor that is
necessary for us to have the data necessary for climate action,
but it--instead, it is something that is about interoperability
and looking for reference data sets that other data sources can
be available for.
And so at this early stage of a procurement strategy, we
do urge this Committee and NASA and USGS to open up the
aperture and to consider more novel and innovative approaches
toward the next-generation Landsat Next program.
Mr. Babin. OK. One more question for you, Mr. Schingler.
Your testimony also mentions the commercial remote-sensing
regulatory process. Since you also sit on the advisory
committee for commercial remote-sensing, what can NASA do to
aid the Department of Commerce in the interagency process that
reviews new remote-sensing technologies?
As noted in the last advisory committee meeting, despite
the new streamlined regulations, American companies are still
forced to be second place in many areas of commercial remote-
sensing and prohibited from offering anything not on the market
without significant, often crippling conditions being placed on
their operations, real quickly, please.
Mr. Schingler. Yes, the advisory committee for commercial
remote-sensing met a couple of weeks ago, and there was an
excellent briefing from a national geospatial intelligence
agency colleague who articulated a leaderboard across all the
remote-sensing capabilities globally. And if you play it back
over time, you could see how other nations are accelerating in
taking over leadership for commercial remote-sensing
capabilities.
Last year, NOAA did a great job in shifting a bit of the
approach toward regulatory process. There's still more to be
done. It should be more than just what is commercially
available today but forecasting where things are going so that
American competitiveness can continue to excel in the global
marketplace.
Mr. Babin. OK. I see my time's expired. I had one for Dr.
St. Germain, but we will submit it in writing then. So with
that, Mr. Chairman, we will yield back. Thank you.
Chairman Beyer. Dr. Babin, thank you very much.
Mr. Babin. Yes, sir.
Chairman Beyer. I now recognize the Chair of the House
Administration Committee, Ms. Lofgren from California.
Ms. Lofgren. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for this
wonderful hearing, which I think is instructive to all of us.
Dr. St. Germain, it's my understanding that the Earth
Science Divisions Applied Sciences Program used to have a
dedicated wildfire program, wildland fires program, and that
had been created because of an identified need, but it was
concluded in 2017 because it didn't have enough money to keep
going. Now, we have an increasingly prolonged wildfire season
in the United States, certainly in my State of California, but
not just in California, all over the United States. And we've
got devastating wildfires that are being experienced. Is it
important or valuable to have dedicated programs to tackle some
of our biggest climate challenges and targeted appropriations
to support this work in your judgment?
Dr. St. Germain. Thank you for the question. Today, we
provide a lot of support for wildfire, both prediction and
disaster response. We support that through two of our programs.
One--both out of our Applied Sciences Program. One is the
Ecological Forecasting Program, and the other is the Disasters
Program. And just to give you a sense, in 2020 we supported six
Disasters activations in support of wildfires in the Western
United States.
I think there are a number of ways that we can manage
these things, and there are always choices, right, and those
choices have an impact on the synergies we can take advantage
of. I'm always open to looking at alternative ways of managing
the--our programs and continually reevaluating them in the
context of their effectiveness.
Ms. Lofgren. Well, you are all the scientists, not us, but
I'm interested in making sure that we are making the
appropriate investments in wildfire R&D (research and
development) work. And if it's not a specialized division,
then, you know, what other portfolios need to be enhanced? You
know, right now, there are people being evacuated down in the
Los Angeles basin. We had--you know, a number of people lost
their lives in Paradise, California, in Doug LaMalfa's district
last year, so I'm just interested in what needs to be enhanced
in terms of prediction. And also, as you probably know, the
Governor of California just announced a big investment in fuel
reduction, but it seems to me that the preventative efforts
could be greatly enhanced through this whole observation
program. What are your thoughts on that?
Dr. St. Germain. The--let's see. Today, we work--when--in
our wildfires work, we work very closely with our interagency
partners, NOAA, for example, as well as responders on the
ground. We had--as I said, we can always look at ways to do
that better, and I'd like to actually give that some thought
and take the question for the record and come back to you with
some ideas.
Ms. Lofgren. I would appreciate that very much because
obviously there's fighting the fires, but this is not--this
drought that we have is not going to--it's not a temporary
situation. This is a permanent situation, and the steps that
we're going to need to take to prevent the catastrophic spread
of fires is something that needs to get our attention not only
at a State and county level but at a Federal level, so I would
appreciate that advice.
And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Schingler. Congressman--woman, may I respond to that?
Ms. Lofgren. Oh, that would be lovely, thank you.
Mr. Schingler. Excellent. Yes, so there is a fantastic
program that's called the California Forest Observatory that
was launched last year, and it is a combination of aerial lidar
data with Earth observation data from----
Ms. Lofgren. Yeah.
Mr. Schingler [continuing]. Space to quantify--and weather
data to then understand wind patterns and quantify the fuel
load. What this does is it allows for Cal Fire (California
Department of Forestry and Fire Protection) to be able to
understand where the risk is and forecast where things can go.
This is just a pilot project, as it is right now. It is working
and operational, but it is--the technology behind it is
scalable to the rest of the country.
In addition to that, there are some other government
sensors that detect infrared signatures that are extremely
useful not just for national security, which is its primary
purpose, but also for understanding fire, fire spread, and
hotspots. And being able to have that data more easily
accessible to our firefighters on the ground is something that
would be really welcome.
Ms. Lofgren. That's great information. Maybe the two of
you can talk after this hearing, and I'm--I don't want to abuse
my time, Mr. Chairman, so I yield back.
Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Ms. Lofgren, very much.
I now recognize the Ranking Chairman of the Full
Committee, Mr. Lucas.
Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Schingler, your company has been around for a decade,
and you've partnered with NASA and other Federal agencies
during that period. How has NASA's approach to commercial
providers changed over that time or has it?
Mr. Schingler. Thanks for the question. Yes, thank you for
the question. And honestly, it might be a bit of my heritage,
but NASA is the most forward leaning of all the government
agencies in partnering with commercial companies.
You can see this picture behind me is actually taken from
an astronaut from the International Space Station in 2014 when
we first launched our first fleet of 28 satellites. And over
time, as we mentioned with the Commercial Smallsat Data Pilot
Program now hopefully an upcoming operational capability is
extremely promising.
And then also, as Riley was mentioning with the Carbon
Mapper program, we are at the scale and support right now that
we are looking to transfer some of the cutting-edge technology
from NASA that can then be applied for an operational
capability, and that's what Carbon Mapper is all about.
So NASA is only accelerating with its adoption and
partnership with all that America has to provide in not only
solving additional climate change challenges but then also
bringing it to the rest of society.
Mr. Lucas. Well, continuing down this vein, how can the
Committee help spur increased partnerships between NASA and the
commercial data providers in the future?
Mr. Schingler. Well, my main recommendation is to--for
this Committee in particular is to put into statute for the
Commercial Smallsat Data Acquisition Program and to robustly
fund it. There are many companies just like Planet. There are
about a half-dozen or so that are operational and about two
dozen or so that are coming up. The more that governments can
partner with emerging commercial players, they--those
commercial players, if they have a customer, they listen to
them. They want to please them, and they will upgrade their
services to meet their needs. And so I think by creating that
program and then opening up the aperture to allow for NASA
scientists to find scientific utility rather than to prove it
from a procurement strategy is part of how we can think through
creating new program offices.
Mr. Lucas. Continuing with you, Mr. Schingler, NASA has
for years partnered with other agencies. I think of USGS and
NOAA on Earth observation activities. Currently, those
partnerships consist of NASA developing new satellites and
instruments, which are then operated by the other agencies. Do
you still view this as the most productive and cost-effective
model?
Mr. Schingler. I think there are definitely scientific
signatures that need to be collected that can only be done by
national labs and that are necessary not just for science but
also for commercial. You know, we use some of the signatures
that we get from NASA and NOAA satellites for interoperability
for our data sources. However, many of our legacy programs can
be upgraded to go further out and to do the harder thing and to
allow for operational services to then be provided by
commercial players such as Planet and others. So I do think
that there's a great opportunity to look at program offices not
just for the specific data that they're trying to do but what
is that signal that they're actually sending to the market in
order to stimulate innovation and to think about it across
industry, academia, and government programs together.
Mr. Lucas. Well, along that line, from your perspective,
what kind of adjustments in the model that we're using now--
mechanically, what do we need to look at on this Committee to
improve that model along the lines of what you were discussing?
Mr. Schingler. Well, I have two suggestions. One--besides
putting into statute the Commercial Smallsat Data Program, one
suggestion is to have a portion of that that allows for a NASA
scientist to innovate with whatever is out there. And so that
is one way to accelerate that. And the second is to partner
with prototypes. Instead of doing operational missions and
science-grade PI- (principal investigator-) led programs, to
think through and expand the in particular Earth Science
Venture program to allow for there to be public-private
partnerships that then allow for much more of these hosted
payloads to happen on the--not just about once every 2 years
and a new mission once every 2 years but to allow for that
happened on the order of 6 months. The industry is there to
ready to partner with NASA on this, and this is something that
NASA and this Committee should consider.
Mr. Lucas. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, my time is
about to expire. I yield back.
Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Mr. Lucas, very much.
I now recognize the gentleman from Florida, Governor
Charlie Crist.
Mr. Crist. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the
witnesses for being with us today.
Under the Biden Administration, NASA's science missions
will play a critical role in informing the Federal Government's
efforts to combat climate change. One of the most significant
climate change impacts that Florida faces is the increasing
frequency of severe weather, specifically, hurricanes and as
well as other tropical storms.
Dr. St. Germain, could you discuss the role that NASA's
Earth observations play in weather forecasting, and could the
prediction of these observations be used to improve weather
prediction on capabilities?
Dr. St. Germain. Thank you so much for the question. So of
course, as you know, NASA partners with NOAA to build NOAA's
operational weather satellites, and we also partner with NOAA
and other agencies to advance modeling and data assimilation.
That happens primarily through the Joint Center for Satellite
Data Assimilation. We augment those observations and
capabilities with smallsat technologies like CYGNSS (Cyclone
Global Navigation Satellite System), RainCube, TEMPEST-D
(Temporal Experiment for Storms and Tropical Systems--
Demonstration). These are all small demonstration missions that
brought additional data to bear and are particularly
interesting for tropical cyclones and point to a path of more
affordable observations.
In addition to that, about 1/3 of our 45 disaster
activations last year were associated with weather and in
particular tropical cyclones. So--and then all of that of
course is underpinned by our Research and Analysis Program in
weather and atmospheric dynamics. So across our whole Earth
Science Division from technology to science to exploratory
science to applied science, we are supporting the advancement
of weather prediction and warning capability.
Mr. Crist. Thank you. The 2020 Atlantic hurricane season
was the most active and the fifth-costliest Atlantic hurricane
season on record. Again to you, Dr. St. Germain, given the
increase in frequency of severe weather events and the
resulting risk to human life and infrastructure, can you
discuss what the next generation of sensing and imaging
capabilities looks like, especially as they relate to weather
prediction?
Dr. St. Germain. Yes. So, of course, as you know, NOAA is
formulating its next generation of weather observation
capabilities, particularly in geostationary orbit, and NASA's
future observing systems will be aligned with the
recommendations from our decadal survey, which of course
characterize the most important observations to make to achieve
both climate change--advance climate change understanding, as
well as weather-related understanding. So the primary missions
associated with the decadal survey are, of course, the aerosols
convection--clouds convection and precipitation observations.
Those will be looking to move forward on to answer some of
those really fundamental questions. And actually I think
probably Dr. Schmidt may have something to say on this topic as
well.
Mr. Crist. Doctor?
Mr. Schmidt. No, I think you actually covered it pretty
well----
Dr. St. Germain. OK.
Dr. Schmidt [continuing]. Sorry.
Dr. St. Germain. OK.
Mr. Crist. Would any of the other panelists like to
comment on this?
Mr. Schingler. When it does come to increasing our
understanding of extreme weather, it is a combination of a
variety of data sets. Different types of microwave sounders
from space, also ground-based and in addition to land
monitoring systems, so Landsat models are included in that, and
that is something that NOAA should look at, which is including
in other types of land monitoring data sensors to allow for us
to have better models.
The other thing that is extremely promising about this is
the power of cloud computing and machine learning on top of
these aggregate disparate data sets together that allow for us
to have a better understanding for what's about to happen. So
as these data are all activated and interoperable with one
another, we will be able to better anticipate what's about to
happen not just for weather but also for other types of land-
use change.
Mr. Crist. Great, thank you very much. I appreciate that.
I see my time is about to expire, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. I
yield back.
Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Congressman Crist.
And now let me recognize the Congressman from Cape
Canaveral, Mr. Posey.
Mr. Posey. Thank you very much, Chairman Beyer, and I
appreciate you holding this hearing on the current roles and
future opportunities for NASA's Earth science.
Mr. Schingler, China is aggressively pursuing remote-
sensing capabilities and offering them on the commercial
market. I'm just wondering what we can do to ensure that we
remain the leader in commercial remote sensing.
Mr. Schingler. Thank you for the question. Over the last 5
years, as I've mentioned in my testimony and my verbal
statement, there is a renaissance that's happening in Earth
observation, and it has been led by U.S. companies and
companies across Europe. Over the last 4 years, that has been
eclipsed by a number of Chinese companies that are very well-
funded and very well-supported across academia and the Chinese
Government.
We are competing in a global marketplace, and what makes
American entrepreneurship great is that we look for global
products in market-making industries, bring them to society,
and then we upgrade them. And it's trusted. So I do think that
the foundation that we have inside American industry will
thrive and grow this new frontier economy, but it definitely is
a challenge.
Some of the things that are being brought up right now is
to really embrace U.S. commercial industry and purchasing the
services that exist today, knowing that there's a partnership
for it to be upgraded over time. And this is something that
that we have not seen fully embraced inside the DOD (Department
of Defense) and the IC (intelligence community) community.
And I can say again that NASA has been an early adopter
into this, and we look forward for this to expand, but that's
the main thing is to partner, is to be a lighthouse customer,
not the only customer, but to be a customer of U.S. commercial
industry, and they will rise up, and they will solve the needs
of tomorrow.
Mr. Posey. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Schingler.
Dr. St. Germain, I'm particularly worried about China, as
many of us are, through state-owned enterprises investing in
new private climate satellite companies in order to influence
the information they receive. Can you tell us how NASA might
not only validate the new data coming from these nongovernment
satellites but also any intentional or unintentional biases
that can emerge from it?
Dr. St. Germain. Thank you for the question. So NASA
doesn't have any direct bilateral collaboration or work
underway with China, but we do have a lot of multinational
partnership work underway and in fact we lead multinational
organizations such as the Committee on Earth Observations, and
our primary focus in those leadership roles is to expand and
really underscore open science and the trust and transparency
that goes into the--understanding those measurements and their
scientific integrity.
And so I think where we can really contribute here is
leading in that international arena, along with our commercial
partners, to underscore the importance of transparency and
trust in the data that we're using and create that expectation
internationally.
Mr. Schmidt. Might I add something to that answer?
Mr. Posey. Absolutely.
Mr. Schmidt. One of the key issues with any new source of
data is that every new source of data has its own special
characteristics. One might call it bias, but they all have
special characteristics as a function of their orbits, their
instruments, and how often they're reported. When you put that
into a data assimilation system, the physics that's been
embedded within that system tells us whether things are
consistent, whether things are coherent. And so these systems
will tend to reject data that is too biased, that doesn't fit
into how the estimations is thinking that things should work,
and we can--we are able to detect instruments that are
malfunctioning. We are able to detect instruments that are not
properly calibrated by embedding them within a larger data
assimilation system. And that would be true for data from any
source.
Mr. Posey. Thank you very much. I see my time is expired.
I appreciate it, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Chairman Beyer. Thank you, Mr. Posey. And, Mr. Posey, I'm
going to ask a second round of questions if you care to hang in
for that, so you're most welcome to.
Mr. Posey. OK.
Chairman Beyer. So let me--Mr. Duren, you wrote that
there's a real problem in data latency, that you have these
wonderful people collecting data, and it takes one to three
years until it's delivered and published in time. How do we get
over that? You say we need more streamlined frameworks to
effectively support decisionmaking but that data latency is an
obstacle.
Mr. Duren. Yes, sir. Of course, you know, things vary, but
it's generally the case that when it comes to greenhouse gas
emission estimation in general, that current frameworks fall
into one of two buckets. Bucket one is conventional greenhouse
gas inventories that are compiled by--typically by nation
states but increasingly some subnational jurisdictions, and
those methods use fairly tried and true publicly available data
that we call activity data, things like how many vehicle miles
traveled, how many cows, how much coal is bought and sold, and
then these regulatory agencies like the Environmental
Protection Agency, apply emission factors that generate an
annually aggregated, nationally aggregated accounting of all
greenhouse gas emissions by sector and by gas. As you can
imagine, that process takes time. In many cases those
inventories lag by a couple of years, and so they're trying to
get it right but they're not necessarily fast.
And the other bucket are experimental advanced science-
based measurements using atmospheric measurements from a
variety of techniques, not just satellites but surface
measurements. And NASA and many other agencies, NOAA, and
experts from around the world in academia are advancing that.
NASA's own carbon monitoring system is pioneering that, many
projects that are advancing that, but these are experimental in
nature, and to the extent that they do produce data more
quickly, they don't do it for very long. They typically last
about 3 years, these pilot projects. And they also tend to be
very focused in individual areas. So the need to operationalize
climate data, in particular greenhouse gas data, means also
addressing this latency problem. And there are ways to
accelerate it mainly by providing some engineering and machine
learning and automation and software engineering to speed these
processes up and, most importantly, sustain them so they're not
just one-off research programs. So we need to expand the
research to operations gap.
Chairman Beyer. Thank you very much.
Mr. Schingler. Chairman----
Chairman Beyer. Mr. Schingler----
Mr. Schingler. Yes, please.
Chairman Beyer. Yes, go ahead, please.
Mr. Schingler. May I comment on this?
Chairman Beyer. Yes.
Mr. Schingler. So the latency is really all about speed to
information, helping people make better decisions. And, I mean,
we are so connected here and we get pushed information
constantly. And really if you unpack that infrastructure that's
put in place across cell towers and so forth, that
infrastructure is now going up into space, right? So we will
have over the next few years real-time connectivity via space-
based orbiting assets. We will have satellites that then in
space take pictures of the Earth and tap into that so that you
have a real-time understanding of what's happening.
The other major trend that's happening is something that
is in the Internet of Things world or edge computing, which is
where you collect information you do some compute right where
it is so for things that happen that have some public interest,
so, for instance, in Riley's program at Carbon Mapper, if there
is a methane leak, which is really toxic for public health,
that could be detected on board and immediately informed to
first responders.
And so these are some of the things that are happening
today across infrastructure that's going into space that allows
for real-time understanding of the planet at the speed of
decisionmaking for public health but then also for commerce.
Chairman Beyer. Thank you very much. And, Dr. St. Germain,
lots of talk about all the different data. What's NASA's policy
on NASA-supported Earth science data in terms of archiving, in
terms of free and open access, and availability to the public,
including raw data? And how do you maintain that policy,
including conformance to the World Meteorological Organization
data policies with our non-Federal partners?
Dr. St. Germain. Thank you for the question. Yes, NASA has
a full and open science data policy. All of our data are freely
available, and we are really pushing to advance that with not
just availability but real discoverability and putting the data
in the same ecosystem as the computation capability and the
models and the applications. So that's all part of our plan to
accelerate our delivery of actionable information.
In the context of commercial data, of course, we negotiate
with the commercial data provider on the terms of a user
license, and that can--in the early going, in the NASA
Commercial Data Pilot Program, that was limited to NASA users
only. But of course when we're talking about open science, we
want to make sure that other non-NASA-funded scientists and
other agencies have access, so we're working to standardize a
set of options for user licenses that can allow us to
distribute that data more broadly.
Chairman Beyer. Great, thank you very much.
Mr. Posey, the floor is again yours for questions.
Mr. Posey. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I
appreciate a second round.
Dr. St. Germain, a real fear is I believe that private
satellite companies could possibly target facilities,
industries, competitors, whatever, while ignoring other areas
and then selectively release information. What would prevent
these companies from cherry-picking observations to gain an
upper leg over others that puts their interests first and
skewing the data that decisionmakers receive and the public
receives?
Dr. St. Germain. Let's see. So for the data that NASA
acquires and----
Mr. Posey. No, we're going back to China, back to the
China [inaudible]. I'm sorry.
Dr. St. Germain. OK. So I think that is a question that is
probably more--would be more important for operational agencies
that are--that could make use of Chinese data, but as I said
earlier, we at NASA don't have--we don't buy Chinese data, and
we don't have any ongoing bilateral arrangements to use Chinese
data.
Mr. Schingler. Representative Posey, it is----
Mr. Posey. Do others want to weigh in here?
Mr. Duren. Can I answer that? So I think--yes,
Congressman, I think this is why Robbie and I and others and I
know our NASA colleagues would agree that it's important to
have a global system of systems that's not limited to a
unilateral actor. Environmental data from Earth observations is
too important [inaudible] wrong either intentionally through
bias or by getting it wrong because the science or the
technology is wrong.
So I think we are on the verge of seeing an emergent
global observing system of systems that includes observations
not just by NASA but also of their international partner
agencies in Europe and Japan and not just China and also in
commercial space.
And so I think the best way to tackle the question you're
raising is really for an open-skies policy with multiple
independent observations that can crosscheck and validate each
other and build public confidence that no single system is
introducing bias either intentionally or otherwise. And I think
a good question for this Subcommittee is what's the right role
of NASA and Federal agencies to help enable that to make it
work?
Mr. Posey. Well, listen, I appreciate the good answers.
Dr. Schmidt, do you want to weigh in?
Mr. Schmidt. I think that that's very--I mean, what Riley
said was good. Multiple use of the same place and time from
multiple instruments gives us a coherent and consistent story
about what's happening, and that needs to be multi-instrument,
multi-platform, and multi-companies and multi-sources of that
data. And I think that the more that we build an infrastructure
that allows that data to all be kind of part of one thing, then
we will be able to see things in real time that are anomalous
or not.
Mr. Schingler. And, Congressman, to--the commercial
systems out there are also critically important for that
overall multi-data source observation that is secure. So, for
instance, GeoAssurance, what this is called inside of the
geospatial intelligence community, and if you have problems of
how you built your satellite and putting it up into space, you
know that it's quite secure, that connection can also be
secure. And to have pixel-level providence builds trust that
what you're capturing is truth.
And as a commercial company that abides by jurisprudence
and the rule of law, getting all of society on a common
operating picture so that bad actors can be seen and light can
be shown, it allows for the fourth estate, media, think tanks,
and science organizations to actually validate and hold truth
to power for those who are doing things that are different from
what they're saying.
So there is something that is really, really powerful
about our sector in remote sensing to provide that level of
transparency to allow for us to have a more secure and
sustainable world.
Mr. Posey. Like the news really, we want it to be as
accurate as possible, and that's not always the case.
Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for holding this
hearing, very interesting, good information. Thank you,
witnesses, for your input. We really do appreciate it. Thank
you.
Chairman Beyer. And thank you, Congressman Posey.
I'm going to--since we have these wonderful people and we
don't want them to go to lunch, I'm going to fire one more set
of questions at them, which you are welcome to stay if you'd
like, but I understand you have other meetings, too.
So, Dr.--to Robbie Schingler, you spoke specifically about
U.S. Federal agencies prioritizing commercial data buys, and I
guess frustrated with DOD and the IC, but you also talked about
remote-sensing regulations, launch payload regulations, orbital
regulations, spectrum regulations all play a critical role in
our commercial sector's ability to participate internationally.
Do you think those--that we are overregulated, the regulations
have gone too far, the commercial industry does not have
sufficient input in the development of those regulations? Have
we right-sized it yet?
Mr. Schingler. Thank you, Chairman Beyer. There are two
questions in there, the first one around the U.S. Defense
Department and the intelligence community. I think it's
important to note that the National Reconnaissance Office more
or less created Earth observation, and they created
extraordinary technologies in space that allowed for our Nation
to understand what's happening in an offset that other people
did not know how they actually did it, just extraordinary
stuff, so I do not want to state anything otherwise.
However, what has happened is that when you have a
disruptive capability, which Planet and others are a part of,
it isn't the way in which people are used to the performance of
the system but a new axes can come out, so, for example,
timeliness, looking for the unknown unknowns, and those types
of activities is just not the way that it's been tooled up.
So there--yes, there has been some frustration on our part
because we want the government to lean in and find mission
utility and to actually be a partner for us to upgrade those
services to support them.
So I just want to more or less state is that we're doing
the best that we can as a commercial partner. And also I do
believe that the government program offices are also doing the
best they can within their constraints. And that's where
oversight can come in, to really help see are there any blind
spots that we have in our overall strategies? So that's No. 1.
No. 2 about regulation, regulation is--I actually said
this at a conference a couple of years ago, but it's actually
like a really hot place to be in because you're shaping
markets. You don't want to go too far out in front, but you
also don't want to hold back innovation. And so it's something
that allows--that is a constant dialog, so having these
advisory committees really does support and help.
But of the biggest challenges that we have today, it is
going to be RF, remote frequency challenges, sharing of that,
as well as orbital debris. And we do need, as a global
community--and it could be led by the United States--a space
traffic management capability that allows for freedom to
operate and space security. This is going to be a challenge
over the coming decades, and it's something that we should not
wait in order to come up with, with a good solution.
So I would say in some cases there are some constraints
around industry, probably for some very good reasons, but some
might be for legacy reasons, and so that's where the advisory
committees can come in to try to show those blind spots to the
regulators.
Chairman Beyer. Great, thank you very much. Mr. Duren and
Mr. Schingler, the importance of free, unrestricted, and open
data sharing as part of the Federal Government's research and
development activities is paramount, so is your data, the raw
data in your agreements, in contracts with NASA either through
the Commercial Small Data--Smallsat Data Acquisition Program or
arrangements for Carbon Mapper available to the public freely,
openly, no restrictions?
Mr. Duren. Yes, I'll start and then I'm sure Robbie can
chime in. So Carbon Mapper is a nonprofit, and we have a public
good mission to make methane and CO2 data freely and
publicly available globally. And so the approach that we've
established is that Carbon Mapper will stand up a global data
portal that maintains a running stream of methane and CO2
data to the public that includes the best possible quality
control and uncertainty quantification that is also underpinned
by independent validation by the California Air Resources
Board.
We didn't talk about it in detail, but California's role
in our public-private partnership is they will get access to
all of the methane CO2 data collected over
California immediately, and they'll send people out in the
field to do ground-based follow-up on it if you will to help
certify it and validate it so that it has broader trust
globally and ideally adoption.
The other thing to understand about the public-private
partnership and the way that our vision of how to monetize the
buildout and sustainment of the system is that it is dual use,
so there is a commercial arm to this, and it's enabled by the
NASA technology. The imaging spectrometers that were designed
by NASA JPL actually cover the full spectral range from the
visible wavelengths through the shortwave infrared, and that
allows us not just to detect and quantify methane CO2
emissions, there are dozens of other environmental indicators
on the land and in the oceans that Planet is free to
commercialize. And so it's this dual-use program where Planet
can commercialize other applications while serving Carbon
Mapper's public good mission and actually sustain the program
through a revenue share back to the nonprofit is part of what's
innovative about this, and we think it will help address one of
the challenges we face with Federal programs, and that is
continuity. How do you keep these observations going once you
start them?
I guess I'll now hand it over to Robbie and maybe you can
add.
Mr. Schingler. Yes, I'm super excited about this program.
It is a really unique public-private partnership, and so hats
off to Riley and to Karen for actually pulling this together.
It's not just continuity, but it's upgradability, right?
It's collecting the needed information that's needed not just
for today and that we know of but also where things are
actually going. An example of this around open data versus
commercializable data are a couple of programs that we've
pioneered in the last couple of years, and it's under a broad
rubric that we called digital public goods.
And so one example is what we've done with Norway. So
Norway has been a longtime supporter of a U.N. program to
reduce submissions of deforestation. And we entered into a
project with them after 4 years of validation that opens up a
monthly cloud freebase map of 64 tropical countries around the
world that's available to the forest reprograms inside all of
those countries to allow for people to be on a common operating
picture to curb deforestation and, importantly, it allows for
those nations to get access to payments from the World Bank for
not chopping down their forests. And so this is a good example
of--it's all based on our commercial data. We created a higher-
order data product and then a specific license to allow for
public benefit to happen while we also still had the ability to
sell similar types of data, put it into a different format,
then to serve those to our over 600 enterprise customers that
we have around the world.
So that's one specific example that we have done
successfully, and that model came into the formulation of
Carbon Mapper as a nonprofit where we deliver the data to
Carbon Mapper, and then they deliver a higher-order data
product, almost like a weather service for methane and CO2
emissions to the public as a digital public good.
Chairman Beyer. Thank you very much, very, very
encouraging.
So let me wrap up with one last question for Dr. Schmidt,
although you're welcome to add to that, too. You are the
supervisor on climate for the NASA Administrator, the very
pinnacle of our climate change efforts. Is there any hope? Do
you have any shot at keeping at 1.5 percent centigrade by 2050
or the end of the century?
Mr. Schmidt. One and a half degrees centigrade, that's a
very hard question. There are pathways that would keep us below
that by the end of the century. There aren't that many pathways
that prevent us from going above that in the short term because
of the inertia in the--both the climate system, the oceans, and
in our societal responses.
But, you know, there are a lot of activities going on, and
there are a lot of very, very promising activities at all
levels, the Federal, regional, local, and international level
that are pushing us in that direction. The targets and the
plans that people have put in through the Paris Agreements for
their nationally determined contributions to cutting emissions
are getting closer to the 2 degrees target, and the ratchet
mechanism that was built into the Paris Agreement seems to be
working. People are seeing what can be achieved and then trying
to look into doing better.
And so I don't think it's totally hopeless, but I think it
is clear that we do need to prepare for more climate change to
come. The exact number, speaking personally, the exact number
that we end up with is not--you know, nothing particularly
terrible happens if you go from 1.5 to 1.55 or 1.6, but what we
know is that the impacts are ratcheting up, and they are
increasing exponentially as we continue to warm the planet. And
so we're always going to be in a situation where we could be
doing better, but it's never the case that we should be giving
up on making better decisions.
Chairman Beyer. Mr. Duren?
Mr. Duren. I just wanted to chime in quickly. We get this
question a lot, especially on the greenhouse gas mitigation
topic, you know, is it too late. What I would say is there is
still time and an urgent need to act quickly. The window is
closing, and you can look at the Biden Administration's recent
commitment to cut, you know, U.S. greenhouse gas emissions by
50 percent by the end of this decade. We're well into this
decade already.
I do think that it is an all-hands-on-deck moment for not
just the Federal Government but all government branches,
private sector, and civil society. And it's not too late to
act, but I think we could do a lot more as a society to take
advantage of all the resources at our disposal.
And I know we've been talking in this hearing mainly about
our Earth observations and NASA data, but I want to add another
aspect of NASA that is part of the Federal capability, and that
is NASA's engineering and program management capability. You
mentioned in your opening statement moonshot. That's brought up
frequently in regards to the climate response of this country
and others, and I think that that is a minimum an analogy of
what kind of effort mobilization is needed. And I think there's
that can and should be done in engaging all of the resources of
the Federal Government that right now are constrained by
institutional limitations. NASA fits over here in this part of
the ecosystem and the other agencies do that. And I realize
that it's unrealistic to call for a whole-scale reorganization
of government, but I think there is creativity needed and
resources that are still untapped within agencies like NASA
that can do more than deliver satellites. And so I--that's
something probably beyond the scope of this hearing, but I just
want to throw that out there is there's more we could and
should be doing.
Mr. Schingler. And to echo on that, Chairman Beyer, this
is an opportunity for the U.S. Government to provide leadership
across the entire Federal Government, just like what Riley is
saying. We have the National Space Council. That should have a
strong voice for climate. It should encourage the Office of
Space Commerce within the Department of Commerce, the climate
envoy, and commercial players to be part of this overall
solution. It is a system of systems. NASA has a systems
engineering approach to it. NASA has been playing with this
data, understanding climate as it has happened, and that
technology can really be useful for us to understand what we
can do about it.
The most encouraging thing I see in tackling the problems
of today is the fact that Larry Fink, who is the CEO of
BlackRock, who has over $6 trillion under management in his
last three statements have said that climate risk is investment
risk. If we take a look at the global markets and the amount of
money that is going toward so-called ESG funds or
environmental, social, and governance funds, the market is
shifting. We do--and we need to ride that wave and shift it in
order for us to live sustainably on this planet.
So this is an all hands on deck, and it's not just
government. It is industry. That--those are the incentives that
will actually drive consumer behavior and corporate behavior.
So I'm encouraged by it, but we do need to accelerate our
activities.
Chairman Beyer. I think for anyone who's listened to the
last hour and a half plus, they have to be encouraged by the
capabilities of our four witnesses today and all the things
that you're doing, so thank you very, very much for being here.
Thank you for your good work on behalf of all of humanity, and
we hope you will come back to talk with us often.
So let me just say that the record will remain open for
two weeks for additional statements from the Members and for
any additional questions the Committee may ask of the
witnesses.
So if there is no objection, the witnesses are excused,
and this hearing is now adjourned. Thank you, and have a great
day. We'll see you soon.
[Whereupon, at 12:36 p.m., the Subcommittee was
adjourned.]
Appendix
----------
Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
Responses by Dr. Karen M. St. Germain
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Responses by Dr. Gavin Schmidt
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Responses by Mr. Riley Duren
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Responses by Mr. Robbie Schingler
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
[all]