[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                 EXAMINING THE POLICIES AND PRIORITIES
                OF THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE'S
                       FOOD AND NUTRITION SERVICE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                            CIVIL RIGHTS AND
                             HUMAN SERVICES

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

              HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, MAY 12, 2021

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-13

                               __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Labor
      
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]      
  
          Available via: edlabor.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov

                               __________
                               
                U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
44-533 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------   

                    COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR

             ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia, Chairman

RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona            VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina,
JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut              Ranking Member
GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN,      JOE WILSON, South Carolina
  Northern Mariana Islands           GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania
FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida         TIM WALBERG, Michigan
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon             GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin
MARK TAKANO, California              ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York
ALMA S. ADAMS, North Carolina        RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia
MARK De SAULNIER, California         JIM BANKS, Indiana
DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey          JAMES COMER, Kentucky
PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington          RUSS FULCHER, Idaho
JOSEPH D. MORELLE, New York          FRED KELLER, Pennsylvania
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania             GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina
LUCY Mc BATH, Georgia                MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa
JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut            BURGESS OWENS, Utah
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan                 BOB GOOD, Virginia
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota                LISA C. Mc CLAIN, Michigan
HALEY M. STEVENS, Michigan           DIANA HARSHBARGER, Tennessee
TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, New Mexico   MARY E. MILLER, Illinois
MONDAIRE JONES, New York             VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
KATHY E. MANNING, North Carolina     SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana              MADISON CAWTHORN, North Carolina
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York, Vice-Chair  MICHELLE STEEL, California
MARK POCAN, Wisconsin                JULIA LETLOW, Louisiana
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas                Vacancy
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey
JOHN A. YARMUTH, Kentucky
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland

                   Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director
                  Cyrus Artz, Minority Staff Director
                  
                                 ------                                

            SUBCOMMITTEE ON CIVIL RIGHTS AND HUMAN SERVICES

                  SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon, Chairwoman

ALMA S. ADAMS, North Carolina        RUSS FULCHER, Idaho, Ranking 
JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut                Member
TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, New Mexico   GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania
FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana              LISA C. Mc CLAIN, Michigan
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York              VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
KWEISI MFUME, Maryland               SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin
ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia  VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina (ex 
  (ex officio)                           officio)
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on May 12, 2021.....................................     1

Statement of Members:
    Bonamici, Hon. Suzanne, Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Civil 
      Rights 
      and Human Services.........................................     1
        Prepared statement of....................................     4
    Fulcher, Hon. Russ, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Civil 
      Rights 
      and Human Services.........................................     6
        Prepared statement of....................................     7

Statement of Witness:
    Dean, Hon. Stacy, Deputy Under Secretary for Food, Nutrition, 
      and 
      Consumer Services, U.S. Department of Agriculture, 
      Washington, DC.............................................     9
        Prepared statement of....................................    11

Additional Submissions:
    Ranking Member Fulcher:
        Report: ``Reimagining school meals for a post-pandemic 
          era.'' AEI.............................................    36
    Foxx, Hon. Virginia, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of North Carolina:
        Prepared statement from the Infant Nutrition Council of 
          America................................................    39
    Leger Fernandez, Hon. Teresa, a Representative in Congress 
      from the State of New Mexico:
        ``Preventing Lunch Shaming: Communication Strategies,'' 
          USDA Fact Sheet........................................    41
        ``Unpaid Meal Charges,'' USDA Fact Sheet.................    42
    Questions submitted for the record by:
        Chairwoman Bonamici......................................    44
        Ranking Member Foxx......................................    44
        Thompson, Hon. Glenn, a Representative in Congress from 
          the State of Pennsylvania..............................    45
    Responses to questions submitted for the record by:
        Deputy Under Secretary Dean..............................    47

 
                       EXAMINING THE POLICIES AND
                   PRIORITIES OF THE U.S. DEPARTMENT
                       OF AGRICULTURE'S FOOD AND
                           NUTRITION SERVICE

                              ----------                              


                        Wednesday, May 12, 2021

                  House of Representatives,
   Subcommittee on Civil Rights and Human Services,
                          Committee on Education and Labor,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 12:04 p.m., 
via Zoom, Hon. Suzanne Bonamici (Chairwoman of the 
Subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Bonamaci, Adams, Hayes, Leger 
Fernandez, Mrvan, Bowman, Scott, Fulcher, Spartz, Fitzgerald, 
and Foxx.
    Staff present: Ilana Brunner, General Counsel; Christian 
Haines, General Counsel; Alison Hard, Professional Staff; 
Sheila Havenner, Director of Information Technology; Eli 
Hovland, Policy Associate; Carrie Hughes, Director of Health 
and Human Services; Ariel Jona, Policy Associate; Max Moore, 
Staff Assistant; Mariah Mowbray, Clerk/Special Assistant to the 
Staff Director; Kayla Pennebecker, Staff Assistant; Veronique 
Pluviose, Staff Director; Banyon Vassar, Deputy Director of 
Information Technology; Cyrus Artz, Minority Staff Director; 
Courtney Butcher, Minority Director of Member Services and 
Coalitions; Amy Raaf Jones, Minority Director of Education and 
Human Resources Policy; Hannah Matesic, Minority Director of 
Operations; Chance Russell, Minority Professional Staff Member; 
and Mandy Schaumburg, Minority Chief Counsel and Deputy 
Director of Education Policy.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. The Subcommittee on Civil Rights and 
Human Services will come to order.
    Welcome, everyone. I note that a quorum is present. The 
Subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony on examining 
the policies and priorities of the U.S. Department of 
Agriculture's Food and Nutrition Service.
    This is an entirely remote hearing. All microphones will be 
kept muted as a general rule to avoid unnecessary background 
noise. Members and witnesses will be responsible for unmuting 
themselves when they are recognized to speak or when they wish 
to seek recognition.
    I also ask that members please identify themselves before 
they speak. Members should keep their cameras on while in the 
proceedings. Members shall be considered present in the 
proceeding when they are visible on camera. And they shall be 
considered not present when they are not visible on camera. The 
only exception to this is if they are experiencing technical 
difficulty and inform Committee staff of such difficulties.
    If any Member experiences technical difficulties during the 
hearing, you should stay connected on the platform, make sure 
you are muted, and use your phone to immediately call the 
Committee's IT director, whose number was provided in advance.
    Should the Chair experience technical difficulty or need to 
step away to vote on the floor, Mrs. Hayes, or another majority 
Member, is hereby authorized to assume the gavel in the Chair's 
absence.
    This is an entirely remote hearing and as such the 
Committee's hearing room is officially closed. Members who 
choose to sit with their individual devices in the hearing room 
must wear headphones to avoid feedback echoes and distortion 
resulting from more than one person on the software platform 
sitting in the same room.
    Members are also expected to adhere to social distancing 
and safe health guidelines, including the use of masks, hand 
sanitizer, and wiping down their areas both before and after 
they are present in the hearing room.
    To ensure that the Committee's five-minute rule is adhered 
to, staff will be keeping track of the time using the 
Committee's field timer which appears in its own thumbnail 
picture and will be named 001_timer. There will be no one-
minute warning. The field timer will show a blinking light. 
When time is up, members and witnesses are asked to wrap up 
promptly when their time has expired.
    Although a roll call is not necessary to establish a quorum 
in an official proceeding conducted remotely or with 
participation, the Committee has made it a practice that 
whenever there is an official proceeding for remote 
participation for the Clerk to call the roll to help make clear 
who is present at the proceeding. Members should say their name 
before announcing they are present. This helps the Clerk and 
also helps those watching the platform on the live-stream who 
may experience a few seconds delay.
    So at this time, I ask the Clerk to call the roll.
    The Clerk. Mrs. Bonamici?
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Chair Bonamici is present.
    The Clerk. Ms. Adams?
    Ms. Adams. Adams is present.
    The Clerk. Mrs. Hayes?
    Mrs. Hayes. Present.
    The Clerk. Ms. Leger Fernandez?
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Leger Fernandez is present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Mrvan?
    Mr. Mrvan. Frank Mrvan is present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Bowman?
    [No response]
    The Clerk. Mr. Mfume?
    [No response]
    The Clerk. Mr. Scott?
    Mr. Scott. Present.
    The Clerk. Ranking Member Fulcher?
    Mr. Fulcher. Fulcher is present.
    The Clerk. Mr. Thompson?
    [No response]
    The Clerk. Mrs. McClain?
    [No response]
    The Clerk. Mrs. Spartz?
    [No response]
    The Clerk. Mr. Fitzgerald?
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Here.
    The Clerk. Mrs. Foxx?
    Ms. Foxx. Here.
    The Clerk. Chair Bonamici, that concludes roll call.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you.
    Pursuant to Committee Rule 8(c) we are going to do opening 
statements, which are limited to the Chair and Ranking Member. 
This allows us to hear from our witness sooner and provides all 
members with adequate time to ask questions.
    I recognize myself now for the purpose of making an opening 
statement. I want to start by thanking the Committee and 
personnel staff for their work on this Subcommittee hearing. We 
are holding this hearing today to learn about and discuss the 
Biden administration's priorities for Federal child nutrition 
programs and the steps we should take to prevent children and 
families from going hungry during the pandemic and beyond. I 
want to thank Deputy Under Secretary Dean for being with us 
today.
    The COVID-19 pandemic has caused an unprecedented number of 
children across the country to go hungry. Widespread school 
closures, combined with the economic crisis created a nightmare 
scenario in which hunger among children and families surged to 
unprecedented levels.
    Even before the pandemic, too many children did not have 
access to healthy food. In 2018, nearly one in every seven 
households with children struggled to put enough food on the 
table. Unfortunately just weeks into the pandemic, more than 
one in every three households with children, and nearly half of 
all mothers with young children struggled with food insecurity.
    By mid-July, as many as 17 million children were not 
getting enough to eat because their families could not afford 
it. I will say that again, less than a year ago, nearly 17 
million children were not getting enough to eat. This crisis 
has been far worse for the families, many of them families of 
color who were already food insecure when the pandemic started. 
During the early stages of the pandemic, both Black and Latinx 
families experienced food insecurity at twice the rate of White 
families. These numbers should alarm all of us. Children who go 
hungry are far more vulnerable to chronic health challenges and 
without access to healthy food children struggle to build the 
foundation they need to learn, grow, and lead a fulfilling 
life.
    Last year, Congress acted swiftly to expand access to 
nutrition assistance as schools across the country closed. One 
of the first relief packages, the Families First Coronavirus 
Response Act gave the USDA critical flexibility to allow 
schools and community partners to deliver meals to families and 
offer free meals to all children through the Summer Food 
Service Program.
    Families First also included bipartisan legislation I led 
to eliminate other barriers to providing nutrition assistance. 
The bill also created the pandemic EBT program or P-EBT so low-
income families who could not physically get to school meal 
sites could still receive funding to help feed their children.
    I have visited with the dedicated staff at Aloha-Huber Park 
Elementary School and Hayhurst elementary school in Northwest 
Oregon. I spoke with the administrators. I spoke with the staff 
and the families about how these programs helped meet the needs 
of students and families. These investments have made a 
significant difference for families in Oregon and across the 
country.
    Research indicates that P-EBT has lifted as many as 3.9 
million children out of hunger. And recent reporting indicates 
that the share of Americans struggling with hunger is now at 
its lowest level since the pandemic started. Despite our 
progress, we know that too many children are still going to bed 
hungry. But the clear lesson from our successful efforts to 
bolster nutrition assistance programs is that when we provide 
people in need with relief, they use those resources to feed 
their families.
    Fortunately, the American Jobs Plan includes important 
investments in school kitchens and the American Families Plan 
would invest $33 billion in our Federal child nutrition 
programs. We should swiftly advance these bills.
    The American Families Plan also makes permanent and 
nationwide the summer EBT program, which already provides the 
assistance to families during the summer months. This program 
will help feed children across the country at a time when they 
are not getting healthy school meals.
    The package also expands the popular Community Eligibility 
Provision or CEP. This expansion would feed roughly 9.3 million 
more children by making them eligible for preschool meals.
    Moving forward, the Committee must also update the 
underlying laws that authorize our Federal child nutrition 
programs. They have been expired since 2015. The last child 
nutrition reauthorization, which Congress passed in 2010, with 
bipartisan support, dramatically expanded access to child 
nutrition programs. We should work together again to renew 
these critical laws. This hearing is an opportunity to examine 
these steps with Deputy Under Secretary Dean and to consider 
the future of child nutrition as we recover from the pandemic. 
How will our five or 10-year outlook change if we confront the 
child hunger crisis now?
    I look forward to discussing these issues and the work we 
have ahead to make sure that all children in this country can 
access the healthy foods they need to thrive.
    Thank you again to Deputy Under Secretary Dean for being 
with us today.
    And I now want to turn to Ranking Member Fulcher to make an 
opening statement.
    [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Bonamici follows:]

 Statement of Hon. Suzanne Bonamici, Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Civil 
                       Rights and Human Services

    We are holding this hearing, today, to learn about and discuss the 
Biden administration's priorities for Federal child nutrition programs 
and the steps we should take to prevent children and families from 
going hungry during this pandemic and beyond. I want to thank Deputy 
Under Secretary Dean for being with us today.
    The COVID-19 pandemic has caused an unprecedented number of 
children across the country to go hungry. Widespread school closures 
combined with the economic crisis created a nightmare scenario in which 
hunger among children and families surged to unprecedented levels.
    Even before the pandemic, too many children did not have access to 
healthy food. In 2018, nearly 1 in every 7 households with children 
struggled to put enough food on the table.
    Unfortunately, just weeks into the pandemic, more than 1 in every 3 
households with children and nearly half of all mothers with young 
children struggled with food insecurity.
    By mid-July, as many as 17 million children were not getting enough 
to eat because their families could not afford it. I will say that 
again: less than a year ago, nearly 17 million children were not 
getting enough to eat.
    This crisis has been far worse for the families--many of them 
families of color--who were already food insecure when the pandemic 
started. During the early stages of the pandemic, both Black and Latinx 
families experienced food insecurity at twice the rate of White 
families.
    These numbers should alarm all of us. Children who go hungry are 
far more vulnerable to chronic health challenges. And, without access 
to healthy food, children struggle to build the foundation they need to 
learn, grow, and lead a fulfilling life.
    Last year, Congress acted swiftly to expand access to nutrition 
assistance as schools across the country closed.
    One of the first relief packages--the Families First Coronavirus 
Response Act--gave the USDA critical flexibility to allow schools and 
community partners to deliver meals to families and offer free meals to 
all children through the Summer Food Service Program.
    Families First also included bipartisan legislation I led to 
eliminate other barriers to providing nutrition assistance.
    The bill also created the Pandemic EBT program, or P-EBT, so that 
low-income families, who could not physically get to school meal sites, 
could still receive funding to help feed their children.
    I have visited with the dedicated staff at Aloha-Huber Park 
Elementary School and Hayhurst Elementary School in northwest Oregon. I 
spoke with the administrators. I spoke with the staff and the families 
about how these program help meet the needs of students and families.
    These investments have made a significant difference for families 
in Oregon and across the country. Research indicates that P-EBT has 
lifted as many as 3.9 million children out of hunger. And recent 
reporting indicates that the share of Americans struggling with hunger 
is now at its lowest level since the pandemic started.
    Despite our progress, we know too many children are still going to 
bed hungry. But the clear lesson from our successful efforts to bolster 
nutrition assistance programs is that, when we provide people in need 
with relief, they use those resources to feed their families.
    Fortunately, the American Jobs Plan includes important investments 
in school kitchens and the American Families Plan would invest $43 
billion in our Federal child nutrition programs.
    We should swiftly advance these bills.
    The American Families Plan also makes permanent and nationwide the 
Summer EBT program, which already provides food assistance to some 
families during the summer months. This program will feed children 
across the country at a time when they are not getting healthy school 
meals.
    The package also expands the popular Community Eligibility 
Provision, or CEP. This expansion would feed roughly 9.3 million more 
children by making them eligible for free school meals.
    Moving forward, the Committee must also update the underlying laws 
that authorize our Federal child nutrition programs. They have been 
expired since 2015. The last child nutrition reauthorization, which 
Congress passed in 2010 with bipartisan support, dramatically expanded 
access to child nutrition programs. We should work together again to 
renew these critical laws.
    This hearing is an opportunity to examine these steps with Deputy 
Under Secretary Dean and consider the future of child nutrition as we 
recover from the pandemic. How will our 5 or 10-year outlook change if 
we confront the child hunger crisis now?
    I look forward to discussing these questions and the work we have 
ahead to make sure that all children in this country can access the 
healthy food they need to thrive.
                                 ______
                                 
    Mr. Fulcher. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    School meal program is one of the most important programs 
this Committee oversees. If students are hungry, they don't 
learn. If they don't learn, they don't succeed in school. This 
impacts their prospects for a successful careers as adults. As 
I dig into this issue and hear more from my constituents on 
these programs, the best thing we can do is ensure this program 
works up and down the pipeline for those it is intended to 
serve.
    When I say up and down the pipeline, I mean from production 
to consumption. Our Nation's parents, farmers, ranchers, food 
producers, school districts, and school nutrition experts all 
play a critical role in the success of these programs. It is 
our job as elected officials to make sure the program aligns 
with what parents approve of and what farmers can produce to 
ensure we are able to by healthy, safe, and tasty food for 
students, and maintain requirements that are easily implemented 
in real school settings. If the standards are unattainable or 
overly complicated, the program will fail.
    Nutrition officials from school districts around my State 
tell me one of the challenges they face while striving to put 
together nutritional, enjoyable choices for students is 
following the unclear, complicated Federal rules. To that 
point, let me quickly discuss the sodium targets in the current 
regulations. I will chalk this up as a noble goal that doesn't 
fairly account for the reality on the ground. Under target two 
of the sodium requirements, grades K through 5 can have no more 
than 935 milligrams of sodium for lunch.
    If target three is enacted, sodium would be reduced to 640 
milligrams. The American Heart Association released a sample 
menu of what further reducing the sodium might look like. Not 
surprising, the meals become far less appealing. To meet its 
target three sodium requirements, schools must eliminate the 
cheese from a cheeseburger, nix the pickles, and trade the 
potatoes for carrots. Does a plain hamburger patty with no 
condiments, no bun, and a side of carrots sound enticing to any 
of us, much less a school age child? Hardly.
    Pushing for standards that don't meet the reality on the 
ground will accomplish nothing because kids simply won't eat 
the food. While schools have done an unbelievable job of 
working to implement the Healthy Hunger-Free Kids Act Standards 
since they went into effect, serving more fruits, vegetables, 
whole grains and less fat, calories, and sodium than ever 
before, the final sodium targets are unworkable given the other 
requirements they must meet when serving meals. One cannot cram 
idealism into lunch programs and pretend the problem is solved.
    The so-called American Families Plan includes a vague 
program proposal that gives $1 billion to groups that push 
unworkable school meal standards. Before we create a new 
expensive program that could so confuse and burden schools, we 
should assess our existing programs, look at how they can be 
adopted to meet their intended goals.
    One issue that deserves a closer look is nutrition 
education. How can we support local schools as they work with 
families to promote better nutrition? For example, how can we 
utilize programs like Team Nutrition, farm to school, and 
others to spark student interest to help them take what they 
learned about food production, food business, and food 
preparation and share it at home? What kind of partnerships 
with grocers, farmers, and others can we look at to close the 
circle to help support healthy eating at home? These are 
questions we should consider as we thoughtfully reauthorize 
this program.
    As we look toward reauthorization, Congress must understand 
what the school meal program will look like in the coming 
school years with the changes that come from the new COVID and 
health related issues such as a meal service or food 
preparation.
    I am glad to see the Secretary provided some certainty for 
schools in the upcoming school and school year as they reopen 
to determine how to serve meals to students. However, if we 
limit our reauthorization efforts to the status quo, we hinder 
the ability of schools to provide healthy, tasty meals to 
students.
    There are many more programs I could touch on today, but 
this is just the beginning of the reauthorization process. And 
I appreciate Deputy Under Secretary for joining. I would be 
remiss if I did not mention it is unfortunate that this is not 
a full Committee hearing, as I think a reauthorization such as 
this deserves the full Committee's attention. Nonetheless, I 
look forward to hearing your testimony.
    Madam Chair, I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Fulcher follows:]

 Statement of Hon. Russ Fulcher, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Civil 
                       Rights and Human Services

    The school meal program is one of the most important programs this 
Committee ov ersees. If students are hungry, they don't learn. If they 
don't learn they don't succeed in school. This impacts their prospects 
for a successful career as adults. As I dig into this issue and hear 
more from my constituents on these programs, the best thing we can do 
is ensure this program works up and down the pipeline for those it's 
intended to serve.
    When I say up and down the pipeline, I mean from production to 
consumption. Our nation's parents, farmers, ranchers, food producers, 
school districts, and school nutrition experts all play a critical role 
in the success of these programs. It is our job as elected officials to 
make sure the program aligns with what parents approve of and what 
farmers can produce, to ensure we are able to buy healthy, safe, and 
tasty food for students, and maintain requirements that are easily 
implemented in real school settings. If the standards are unattainable 
or overly complicated the program will fail. Nutrition officials from 
school districts around my State tell me one of the challenges they 
face while striving to put together nutritional and enjoyable choices 
for students is following the unclear, complicated Federal rules.
    To that point, let me quickly discuss the sodium targets in the 
current regulations. I'll chalk this up to a noble goal that doesn't 
thoroughly account for the reality on the ground. Under Target Two of 
the sodium requirements, grades K-5 can have no more than 935 mg of 
sodium per lunch. If Target Three is enacted, sodium would be reduced 
to 640 mg. The American Heart Association released a sample menu of 
what further reducing the sodium might look like. Not surprising, the 
meals become far less appealing. To meet Target Three sodium 
requirements, schools must eliminate the cheese from a cheeseburger, 
nix the pickles, and trade the potatoes for carrots. Does a plain 
hamburger patty with no condiments, no bun, and a side of carrots sound 
enticing to any of us, much less a school-age child? Hardly.
    Pushing for standards that don't meet the reality on the ground 
will accomplish nothing because kids simply won't eat the food. While 
schools have done an unbelievable job of working to implement the 
Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act standards since they went into effect--
serving more fruits, vegetables, and whole grains and less fat, 
calories, and sodium than ever before--the final sodium targets are 
unworkable given the other requirements they must meet when serving 
meals. One cannot cram idealism into the lunch programs and pretend the 
problem is solved.
    The so-called `American Families Plan' includes a vague program 
proposal that gives $1 billion to groups that push unworkable school 
meal standards. Before we create a new, expensive program that could 
sow confusion that burdens schools, we should assess our existing 
programs and look at how they can be adapted to meet their intended 
goals.
    One issue that deserves a closer look is nutrition education. How 
can we support local schools as they work with families to promote 
better nutrition? For example, how can we utilize programs like Team 
Nutrition, Farm to School, and others to spark student interest to help 
them take what they learn about food production, food business, and 
food preparation and share it at home? What kind of partnerships with 
grocers, farmers, and others can we look at to close the circle to help 
support healthy eating at home? These are the questions we should 
consider as we thoughtfully reauthorize this program.
    As we look toward reauthorization, Congress must understand what 
the school meal program will look like in the coming school years with 
the changes that come from new COVID and health-related issues, such as 
meal service or food preparation. I am glad to see the Secretary 
provided some certainty for schools in the upcoming summer and school 
year as they reopen and determine how to serve meals to students. 
However, if we limit our reauthorization efforts to the status quo, we 
hinder the ability of schools to provide healthy, tasty meals to 
students.
    There are many more programs I could touch on today, but this is 
just the beginning of the reauthorization process and I appreciate the 
Deputy Under Secretary for joining us. I would be remiss if I did not 
mention it is unfortunate that this is not a full committee hearing as 
I think a reauthorization such as this deserves the full committee's 
attention. Nonetheless, I look forward to hearing her testimony.
                                 ______
                                 
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you, Ranking Member Fulcher.
    Without objection, all other Member who wish to insert 
written statements into the record may do so by submitting them 
to the Committee Clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format 
by 5 p.m. on May 26, 2021.
    I will now introduce the witness. Stacy Dean was appointed 
by President Biden to serve as the deputy undersecretary for 
USDA's Food, Nutrition, and Consumer Services where she will 
work to advance the President's agenda on increasing nutrition 
assistance for struggling families and individuals as well as 
tackling systemic racism and barriers for opportunity that have 
denied so many the chance to get ahead.
    Prior to joining President Biden's team at USDA, Dean 
served as the vice president for food assistance policy at the 
Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, CBPP. She directed 
CBPP's food assistance team which published frequent reports on 
how Federal nutrition programs affect families and communities 
and developed policies to improve them. We appreciate the 
witness for participating today and look forward to your 
testimony.
    Let me remind you that we have read your written statement 
and it will appear in full in the hearing record. Pursuant to 
Committee Rule 8(b) and Committee practice you are asked to 
limit your oral presentation to a five-minute summary of your 
written statement.
    Before you begin your testimony, please remember to unmute 
your microphone. During your testimony, staff will be keeping 
track of time and a light will blink when time is up. Please be 
attentive to the time. And wrap up when your time is over and 
remute your microphone.
    And as I explained before the hearing began, I am going to 
be a little lenient with Deputy Under Secretary Dean in terms 
of timing as she is the only witness today. But I will be 
pretty strict about the five minutes just so that we can get 
through everybody's questions.
    If you experience any technical difficulties during your 
testimony or later in the hearing, you should stay connected on 
the platform. Make sure you are muted and use your phone to 
call the Committee's IT department at the number provided in 
advance.
    We will let the witness make the presentation before we 
move to Member questions. When answering a question, please 
remember to unmute your microphone. And the witness is aware of 
her responsibility to provide accurate information to the 
Subcommittee. And therefore, we will proceed with her 
testimony.
    And I now recognize Deputy Under Secretary Dean.

          STATEMENT OF HON. STACY DEAN, DEPUTY UNDER 
          SECRETARY FOR FOOD, NUTRITION, AND CONSUMER 
           SERVICES, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, 
                         WASHINGTON, DC

    Ms. Dean. Thank you, Madam Chair, Mr. Ranking Member, and 
Subcommittee members. I am Stacy Dean, USDA's deputy 
undersecretary for Food, Nutrition, and Consumer Services. And 
I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you about 
USDA's child nutrition and WIC programs today.
    I also want to begin by acknowledging what a harrowing year 
it has been for families with children. At the peak last 
December, nearly one in seven households and more than one in 
six households with children reported not having enough to eat. 
Fortunately, the collective efforts of Congress and the 
administration, including the American Rescue Plan, have 
delivered help which has brought meaningful reductions in 
reported food insecurity.
    But even the latest reports show that about one in nine 
households with children reported food hardship. With rates 
more than twice as high among Black and Hispanic households as 
compared to White households. It is imperative that we work 
together to continue to reduce food hardship and improve 
nutrition security. And in that vein, I would like to share a 
few of our key priorities.
    First, we are proposing to make nationwide summer EBT 
permanent. Too many children face the summer hunger gap, but we 
know how to solve this problem. The results from our summer EBT 
pilot study shows that providing low-income families with 
resources to purchase nutritious food during the summer 
improves children's food insecurity and diet quality.
    I applaud your foresight for extending P-EBT into the 
summer during the months of the pandemic. For the first time, 
children eligible for free and reduced priced meals nationwide 
will receive EBT cards in the summer to help address the summer 
hunger problems.
    But summer hunger problem won't disappear when the pandemic 
ends. That is why the family plan invests over $25 billion in a 
permanent nationwide summer EBT, providing $75 per low-income 
child per month for food. This is an evidence-based approach 
that would bring forward and cement this effective anti-hunger 
policy.
    Second, we are proposing to expand the reach of the school 
meal environment in high need schools. The community 
eligibility provision allows high poverty schools to offer all 
meals at no charge to their students. This increases student 
participation in the program and allows schools to focus on 
serving healthy nutritious meals instead of paperwork.
    The successful option was before the pandemic in over 
30,000 schools with nearly 15 million children. The families 
plan would allow more high poverty schools into the option, 
this would focus on elementary schools. It would also expand 
direct enrollment into school meals for children already 
participating in Medicaid and SSI, easing paperwork for parents 
that have already taken pains to prove their children's income 
eligibility.
    Together, this $17 billion investment would enable an 
additional 20,000 schools in high poverty areas that serve more 
than 9 million children to begin providing all meals free of 
charge.
    Third, we will continue to improve nutrition security 
through the child nutrition and WIC programs. Today, one in 
five American children are obese, increasing their risk of 
adult obesity and nutrition related health conditions, as well 
as potential financial burdens on our healthcare system.
    Evidence shows that strong nutrition standards make an 
important difference. WIC research shows not only a powerful 
impact on first outcomes, but also that the updated food 
package standards helped to improve weight status in young 
children.
    Now some controversy around the implementation of some 
school meal standards has somewhat explored the huge strides in 
making meals healthier over the past decade. A USDA study found 
that under the new standards school meals include more 
vegetables, whole grains, and dairy, and less refined grains 
and empty calories than before. With improvements experienced 
across racial and socioeconomic groups, which is great news for 
our children's health.
    School meals are the healthiest eating environment in the 
country and that is the success we should go on. We will 
continue these gains by setting and maintaining strong 
evidence-based standards, but we will pair them with realistic 
and achievable timelines for reaching them, and with the 
support schools need to serve nutritious meals that kids enjoy.
    The families plan also includes $1 billion to help schools 
expand healthy offerings beyond their required standards and to 
test and evaluate strategies for encouraging healthy 
lifestyles. This would support local innovation to enhance 
school food environments.
    Fourth, we will increase access to WIC with the goal of 
improving maternal and child health across racial and ethnic 
lines. The share of eligible families receiving WIC student 
benefits has declined to only about 50 percent. We will invest 
the $390 million Congress provided through the rescue plan in 
robust outreach to reach more eligible, as well as grants to 
support efforts to improve WIC service through equity and 
reduce health disparities.
    And last, let me flag that we are very aware that the 
Committee will be working on the President's proposal for 
historic investments in childcare for working families. We hope 
to work with you on how these proposals can leverage our highly 
successful Child and Adult Care Food Program to reach new 
childcare providers.
    This nutrition program supports high quality care by 
providing nutritious meals to our youngest children. So of 
course the list I have just provided doesn't cover all of the 
advancements that we hope to make and that I expect you will be 
considering. So I look forward it our conversation today and 
our ongoing work together.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Dean follows:]

                    Prepared Statement of Stacy Dean
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you for your testimony. And now 
under Committee Rule 9(a), we will question the witness under 
the five-minute rule.
    I will be recognizing Subcommittee members in seniority 
order. Again to ensure the five-minute rule is adhered to, 
staff will keep track of the time, and the timer will shine a 
light when the time has expired. Please be attentive to the 
time. Wrap up when your time is over and remute your 
microphone.
    As Chair, I recognize myself for five minutes. And Under 
Secretary Dean, I have three questions, so I am going to State 
them all now and then give you time to respond.
    First under the Trump administration Oregon was removed 
from the summer EBT demonstration program. I am grateful that 
the Biden administration has proposed making summer EBT 
nationwide and permanent. What will this policy mean to 
families who will now be able to rely on help with groceries 
during the summer?
    The second question is in the American Rescue Plan 
President Biden laid out key investments in childcare. Our 
Committee recently heard testimony from Mr. Rasheed Malik, an 
early childhood policy expert who emphasized the importance of 
the Child and Adult Care Food Program. So what improvements 
could Congress make to CACFP to better support the childcare 
infrastructure? Do you agree with Mr. Malik and with me that 
CACFP should provide reimbursement for a third meal to children 
in full daycare?
    And then finally, the WIC Farmers' Market Nutrition Program 
provides a great opportunity to connect pregnant women and 
young children to healthy local produce. And it also supports 
our farmers. What flexibilities did the families first to 
coronavirus act provide to WIC FMNP? And how can the program 
operate most effectively moving forward?
    And I am going to give you the rest of the time to respond.
    Ms. Dean. Well, thank you for that. All right. That is a 
list all right. So let's begin with summer EBT. You asked me 
what the impact of the national program having would be and I 
would say first, to respond to your example about Oregon, 
States will no longer have to apply to be part of a demo that 
is very limited and typically sub-State. This will be a 
nationwide policy that will apply to what in 2019 would have 
been 29 million children.
    Which means every State and every family can count on these 
benefits. And I think that is the most critical aspect. It is 
also evidence based. We know this worked to reduce child food 
insecurity by a third and we have more recent evidence from the 
Brookings Institution that also shows that these benefits make 
a core difference. So I think I will just stop there because I 
think that is incredibly powerful in terms of what we will be 
able to do with respect to summer hunger.
    On your CACFP question, I am so excited about the 
President's proposed investment in childcare, and particularly 
excited about the role CACFP can play. As you know, CACFP is an 
entitlement program so it will be allowed to flex as childcare 
grows and we see more providers in the system. We know CACFP 
can connect with them. But and I think your bill is a perfect 
demonstration of this there is a lot we can do to simplify the 
program and make it more appealing to providers.
    So you have ideas around extending connecting--the 
enrollment of the--sorry, the providers that are in reducing 
paperwork. We think those are all terrific changes. And we want 
to make sure that we are reaching out to all new providers to 
connect them.
    I think your point about adding a third meal is going to be 
very important for the Committee to consider, because one of 
the reasons we want to see these investments in childcare is so 
that parents have a safe secure place for their kids where they 
know their kids are well taken care of as they consider job 
opportunities. And we don't want a parent to have to forego a 
job where they might need an extra hour or two on the job if 
they are worried that their kids won't have supper. So I think 
it is a terrific proposal. And I hope the Committee will 
support it.
    All right. Let me keep going. WIC farmers markets, it is a 
wonderful program. And we did need flexibilities in the past 
year and appreciated the ability to offer those. An example of 
one was when we had new farmers markets wanting to come on 
board that they were able to do for example remote training, so 
that things didn't have to be in person. And I think that is 
just a key takeaway from this past year.
    And in fact, we see here in this Committee hearing there is 
a lot of work we can do and a lot of providers that we can 
reach now with using alternatives to exclusively in person. And 
I think that is the key learning we want to bring forward. And 
with the WIC 390 fund that we are calling per the investments 
on the rescue plan, making sure that we are bringing along with 
farmers market as an expanded resource to our WIC participants 
will be a key part of what we are doing.
    So I hope that got to your questions.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. You did answer all of my questions 
with a couple of seconds to spare. Thank you very much.
    It is my understanding that the Ranking Member of the full 
Committee, Dr. Foxx, will be next for five minutes.
    Ranking Member Foxx, I recognize you for five minutes for 
your questions.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    Ms. Dean, thank you for coming today. The last 15 months 
have demonstrated the power of communities stepping up to help 
their neighbors and friends. And the Trump administration 
implemented the waiver authority granted to it to help ensure 
all students continue to have access to food.
    We also know that there are some changes that will continue 
after all students are back in school. And we want the students 
to be back in school, obviously. Can you briefly tell us about 
some of the changes that will continue in the school meal 
program focusing on service and preparations?
    Ms. Dean. Thank you, Congresswoman Foxx for that question.
    You point out one the core flexibilities that the Secretary 
wanted to be sure that schools had is that while we absolutely 
want all students back, and as a parent I can underscore that, 
we aren't completely certain of what the public health 
requirements will be for congregate feeding.
    So will students be able to be in the cafeteria together or 
spacing apart or might they need to be served lunch in the 
classroom? So one of the core flexibilities that we are 
offering is the ability to serve meals in a non-congregate 
environment.
    We want schools to be able to pivot and flex for 
circumstances as they unfold and as they may be specific to 
their communities.
    So I hope that answers your question.
    Ms. Foxx. So I am imagining, I have been in schools lots of 
times where the students have picked up their lunches and taken 
them back into the classroom. So I am assuming that is one of 
the flexibilities that they might have.
    Ms. Dean. Absolutely.
    Ms. Foxx. OK. OK. So given some of these changes, I agree 
with my colleague, Mr. Fulcher, who said reauthorizing to the 
old way of doing things is not responsible legislating. We need 
to understand how these changes are working, what challenges 
schools are facing, how students are adapting to them.
    I hope the USDA will keep an open mind and listen to what 
is working and what is not before cementing any requirements in 
the law and regulations. Ms. Dean, will you commit to ensuring 
USDA will work with us to include changes for the future and 
not just focus on old positions and understanding of how the 
program works in the schools.
    Ms. Dean. You absolutely have my commitment that we want to 
work with this Committee on child nutrition policy.
    Ms. Foxx. Great. I am in the classrooms and cafeterias when 
I am in schools, and I am in schools a good bit. And I talk to 
the people working in the cafeteria. They are just among the 
most dedicated people in the world.
    So are you making a commitment to have this program work in 
the future with the professionals on the ground? And those 
almost all women who work in those cafeterias and food service 
really want to do good for the students.
    So will you commit to collaborating, consulting, and 
working with the doers in this program, those people serving 
the food, preparing the food to help ensure it works for 
students, schools, and program partners.
    Ms. Dean. Yes, absolutely. And that is not just for with 
respect to the standards that we will be updating and setting, 
but also
    [inaudible] implementation. This enterprise has a lot of 
different players. First and foremost are those incredible as 
you say women on the ground that are preparing, serving meals 
every day.
    Ms. Foxx. Right. You mentioned earlier evidence based. That 
is a nice code word we hear a lot. But I am very interested in 
accountability. I asked the hardworking taxpayers to give up 
their money to bureaucrats in the Federal Government. And what 
they want is to know their money is being spent well.
    So what accountability measures are you putting in place to 
show that the summer programs particularly are having the 
desired effect of ensuring that students are getting meals that 
they need?
    Ms. Dean. Well, that is a terrific question. I think just 
first let me say the evidence is based off a very robust 
research evaluation that was done several years ago. But as we 
move forward, for establishing this program through the 
American Families Plan, they have the opportunity to work 
together to ensure the appropriate accountability.
    So I look forward to working with your office on that as 
the Committee develops the final details of the summer EBT 
program.
    Ms. Foxx. Well, we will be back in touch with you with some 
suggestions on how we think the accountability should be 
developed. Thank you very much.
    And I yield back.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. And thank you Dr. Foxx.
    I next recognize Dr. Adams for five minutes for your 
questions.
    Ms. Adams. Thank you, Chair Bonamici, and Ranking Member 
Fulcher for hosting the hearing today. And thank you to our 
witness, Under Secretary Dean for your testimony.
    This is an incredibly important topic. Hunger in our 
country has increased substantially during the COVID-19 
pandemic. And thanks to the work of our Committee on pandemic 
relief over the past year and President Biden and Under 
Secretary Dean's work implementing the important anti-hunger 
policies, the number of Americans struggling with hunger is now 
at its lowest level since the pandemic began. However, we have 
a lot of work to do.
    Ms. Dean, we know that healthy school meals are critical to 
children's health and academic achievement, but we also know 
that school nutrition staff need support to create meals that 
are healthy and enjoyable for children and to help children 
develop healthy habits. And the American Families Plan the 
Biden administration proposed a billion dollars to provide 
additional support and incentives for schools to create a 
healthy school nutrition environment.
    My question to you is why is this additional funding 
important? And what are some examples of ways that schools 
could use the proposed funding?
    Ms. Dean. Well, thanks for asking me that. I think we are 
looking to spark that local innovation that several of you have 
already spoken about. Let's say for example and let me be 
clear, we do want to work with the Committee on establishing 
what the standards would be for qualifying for these additional 
funds.
    So it might be exceeding the standards, say with respect to 
one of the limits. It might be more physical activity. It might 
be thinking about an innovative way to integrate nutrition 
education, as the Ranking Member mentioned, into the core 
curriculum.
    We have several ideas, but I think we want to hear from our 
school group leaders about what they think would spark the most 
innovation and of course from you all about the areas where we 
can drive change with some financial incentives.
    Ms. Adams. Right. Thank you. We know that WIC is critical 
to improving maternal and infant health outcomes. And I 
appreciate the fact that the Biden administration has made WIC 
a key piece of its agenda to prevent maternal mortality, 
particularly for Black, indigenous, and other women of color. 
So can you speak to some of the specific projects that your 
agency is working on to improve access to WIC and to help it 
play a bigger role in preventing maternal mortality?
    Ms. Dean. Yes. Thank you for that question. So our 
fundamental goal is to connect more eligible families to WIC 
because it has proven benefits with respect to birth outcomes 
and basic child development, basic health, and development for 
young kids.
    So we need to connect more eligibles. We want to improve 
the participants experience, potentially using a technology as 
a means to streamline and make it easier to enroll, as well as 
to use benefits. And also see ways that we can streamline 
benefit delivery and service.
    So for example, more effectively connecting WIC to 
participants' healthcare providers so that records could be 
exchanged, and we could reduce the cost and time for 
participants in the WIC clinic. All of this is oriented around 
being a part of the administration's broader goals to address 
maternal mortality and core racial disparities there. So we 
welcome your ideas on that front.
    Ms. Adams. One of the issues we heard about from healthcare 
providers who see WIC patients is that the data is not always 
shared in an efficient manner between WIC and medical 
providers. So, you know, what can we do to facilitate this 
exchange of information.
    Ms. Dean. Well, that is core to our goals is to make sure 
that to the extent participants want that data that they give 
their permission that we can make sure that we are sharing back 
and forth. And we often hear that families show up at WIC 
clinics more frequently sometimes than well baby visits and 
this is a key way to get information back to the doctors as 
well.
    So that is top of mind for us. And we are meeting with HHS, 
as well as State health leads so that we can sort out what 
barriers stand in our way.
    Ms. Adams. Right.
    Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you, Dr. Adams.
    Next, I recognize the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee, 
Mr. Fulcher, for five minutes for your questions.
    Mr. Fulcher. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Dean, thank you for joining us here today. There is a 
lot of stuff that you covered and a lot that we need to cover. 
But before I get to questions, I want to just highlight one 
issue that I hope is behind us and will remain behind us, and 
it is critical a child nutrition programs meet their intended 
purpose in that is putting together those rules the agency not 
hurt any State industries in those efforts.
    A few years ago, you may recall there was an attack on a 
white potato. And being from Idaho you might imagine there was 
a few people who lost their sense of humor over that. So I hope 
that you will maintain the white potato as an allowable under 
the school meal and WIC programs.
    And moving on to other issues, I think the cost in this 
program is also important to discuss. And I will go on record 
and say that the reauthorization process I believe should be 
budget neutral and focus on targeting benefits to those in 
need.
    However, I also think it is critical that these programs 
not include any unfunded mandates or hidden compliance costs to 
the school.
    So Ms. Dean, do you recall what the proposed cost of the 
meal standards rule was back in 2011.
    Ms. Dean. I do not.
    Mr. Fulcher. It was over $6 billion. And the final cost 
estimate of that wound up being about $3.2 billion. And I will 
just add, do you know why it was less than what the proposal 
was?
    Ms. Dean. No. I welcome you.
    Mr. Fulcher. It was because the implementation for the 
breakfast requirements was delayed. And so that was supposedly 
an attempt to get things healthier, the sodium and fat levels 
had been adjusted, but those rules got delayed.
    In fact the rule, the actual rule was stated as follows in 
the executive summary, most notably this final rule provides an 
additional time for implementation of breakfast requirements 
and modifies those requirements in a manner that reduces the 
estimated cost of breakfast changes as compared to the proposed 
rule.
    And so as a result, the fine rule estimated at $3.2 billion 
over the course of 5 years. And so that was considerably less. 
So that just states the true impact of what was going on at 
that time.
    So just moving on, while the USDA noted other changes to 
help offset the cost of these regulations, the school groups 
have been very clear. These regulations to added significant 
unreimbursed cost do not include the additional cost born by 
schools such as labor and compliance costs.
    So another question, Ms. Dean, I don't believe it is 
acceptable for the Federal Government to put requirements on 
schools that add additional compliance costs. And I hope this 
time around Secretary Vilsack will commit to limiting the 
negative impact on regulations. Will you make that commitment 
in terms of those costs on the schools?
    Ms. Dean. Well, Mr. Ranking Member, I think the goal of the 
standards is to increase the health and quality of food the 
kids are eating, and we know that does . We also know that the 
vast majority of schools were able to meet the standards. And 
so I think with respect to your question we want to consider 
costs absolutely, the meal reimbursement.
    The meals have to be able to--sorry, meet the cost within 
the reimbursement rate. But I am not sure. So I feel like all 
of those pieces will come into play as we move forward with 
setting the new standards and working on reasonable, feasible 
implementation.
    Mr. Fulcher. Can I just point out that there truly is a 
cost to this, and that cost does not necessarily bear 
improvement. And so, that is the point of going down that line 
of questioning.
    So in your testimony, you highlighted the President's 
billion-dollar proposal to create an incentive fund for healthy 
foods. Can you just give us a little more detail on how this 
proposed program interacts with the current requirements and to 
meet the current standards and the regulations? And how can you 
ensure this will be voluntary and not overly burdensome?
    Ms. Dean. Well, we do intend for it to be voluntary, to put 
out an incentive fund for districts. And just let me make sure 
I underscore this for you because I am not sure you understood 
that it is for districts to give them increased financial 
reimbursement if they for example wanted to meet a higher 
target with respect to healthy meals, perhaps do something with 
respect to increased physical activity, change the way food is 
displayed in the lunch line, to put healthier food first.
    I think the idea is we want to work with the Committee to 
come up with what those innovative practices would be that we 
would help incent schools to adopt. And the whole idea here is 
to support local innovation and different local approaches with 
respect to healthy standards.
    Mr. Fulcher. OK. And so, the point I am trying to make is 
that please be careful of the burdensome bureaucracy that some 
of this can create because we have to put this implementation 
on the ground.
    And with that, my time is running out. Madam Chair, I yield 
back.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you so much.
    I now recognize Representative Hayes for five minutes for 
your questions.
    Ms. Hayes. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you Deputy 
Under Secretary Dean for being with us today.
    This hearing could not come at a more important time. Over 
the past year the State of Connecticut and our Nation have 
faced a fierce battle with child food insecurity. While the 
COVID-19 pandemic put the gaps in our safety nets for parents 
and children on full display, it did not create them.
    As an educator, I can tell you that 2020 was not the first 
time children have gone hungry. Long before the onset of this 
pandemic, children in my classroom would put their heads on 
their desks because they hadn't had a meal for the day. Mothers 
utilizing WIC ran out of benefits mid-month and had to figure 
out how to scrape by.
    And millions of families who live paycheck to paycheck 
lined up weekly at food banks to make sure they had basic 
staples in their kitchen. So thank you, Under Secretary Dean 
for being here today to discuss this crucial work at USDA to 
alleviate food insecurity and for the administration's 
prioritization of child nutrition in the American Families 
Plan.
    First, I would like to focus on the WIC participation. We 
know that the WIC program is highly effective at improving 
birth outcomes. Yet, we also know that many eligible women, 
infant, and children are not participating in this program.
    Ms. Dean, what ideas do you have about how to make it 
easier for families to participate in WIC? And what supports do 
you think that Congress needs to put in place to address this 
issue? Also, how can different programs share information to 
streamline the process for participation.
    Ms. Dean. Well, I will give you two specific examples just 
building off of what you just said. So first off, pregnant, 
postpartum women, infants, and children who are participating 
in Medicaid or SNAP are income eligible for WIC.
    So I think it is critical that we not just make it so that 
if a participant shows up at a WIC clinic and shows their SNAP 
information that they can qualify that we want to actually be 
getting aggressive in what we call in reach to household on 
SNAP and WIC who qualify for WIC but who are not participating. 
That is a group of folks who have self-identified as being at 
nutrition risk and in need of help with respect to health 
security.
    We want to work to connect them over. And I think setting 
some cross enrollment standards the way you have done from SNAP 
to school meals could really help galvanize attention and focus 
on this issue on a State and local level.
    And another quick example would be we have very high 
participation amongst infants, but we see WIC participation 
trail off as the children get older.
    So we actually often need to be focusing on retention, not 
just outreach to newly eligible. So those are two examples of 
things that we would love to work with you on. And we will be 
using funds you gave us to spearhead efforts as well.
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you. I am currently working on 
legislation to make it easier for families to participate in 
WIC and I look forward to working with this administration to 
make that a priority.
    Summer nutrition programs faces similar participation 
problem. In fact, the most recent data available from the USDA, 
only one in seven children who are eligible for free meals 
through the Summer Food Participation Program actually receive 
those meals in the summer. The American Families Plan proposes 
making the successful summer EBT pilot program a program in 
which families who are eligible for these meal benefits 
permanent. Ms. Dean, what impact do you anticipate the 
expansion will have on child hunger?
    Ms. Dean. Well, the evidence would suggest that it could 
reduce child food insecurity by 30 percent to a third. So quite 
significant. And that is really the core motivation for doing 
this. It is an effective demonstrated approach that we know 
will--sorry, we are very confident will reduce child hunger.
    Mrs. Hayes. Thank you. I think we hear a lot from people 
here about practitioners on the ground. I am an educator by 
profession and for 15 years I was in the classroom. I always 
had a summer program. We always had summer meals in the 
community.
    And I can tell you with fidelity the impact that that has 
when parents and children were lined up around the corner 
before we even opened in the morning because for many of them, 
that was the only meal they would get. And at lunchtime those 
same families would come back and receive lunch.
    So this work is critical. It is important. It is necessary 
in our communities. And it is something that I look forward to 
partnering with the administration to make sure that our 
children are not hungry because it is not their fault, many of 
the situations that they are in.
    So with that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you so much for your questions.
    Next, I recognize Representative Fitzgerald for five 
minutes for your questions.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Dean, thanks 
for being here today.
    As a Member of Congress from Wisconsin, you can probably 
understand my concerns about WIC and it is relationship to 
dairy, both milk that is part of the program, as well as 
cheese. And the sodium question continues to kind of pop up and 
the relationship to a total diet that most kids would be given 
on a daily basis.
    It can lead some students I think there is kind of a 
question as to are the sodium limits too low and how are those 
going to be gauged moving forward? That would be my first 
question.
    Ms. Dean. So thank you for the question. It gives me an 
opportunity to make sure everyone knows that we will be 
updating the nutrition standards in the school meals program as 
well as WIC to reflect the new dietary guidelines. That is a 
process we need to undertake.
    It is also an important opportunity for us to rethink not 
just what the standards are but the implementation timelines to 
get there. What the nutritionists at FNS tell me, this amazing 
group of people, as well as school food leaders school leaders-
we need good high-quality standards that are pushing all of us 
to advance, but we also need time to get there. And that is how 
we will be approaching this.
    But we need input from industry, from social leaders, from 
dieticians, from the heart association, from across the board 
so that we pull together the right standards with practical and 
feasible implementation guidelines.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Just to put on your way radar screen, I am 
sure you are aware of it, but there seems to be questions about 
the level of the whole grain requirement as well. Yes, that 
seems to be a concern.
    The other thing would be when you are looking at kind of 
school lunches and the variety. And I know that Congressman 
Fulcher brought this up earlier, just the desire of some 
elementary students to want to have that school lunch every day 
and whether or not its desirable. I think it kind of goes back 
to whether or not those sodium and the variety that is offered 
in specifically milk products.
    I remember when I was a kid, you would have two cartons of 
milk. One would be chocolate and one would be regular white 
milk. Whole milk by the way, we didn't have 1 percent back 
then. But moving forward, I think there is kind of a desire 
again to make school lunches something that kids really look 
forward to and they want to consume. And I would hope that that 
would be integrated into any of the decisions made with kind of 
the levels of consideration for all of these items so.
    Ms. Dean. Right. Tastiness has got to be a critical part of 
this, but also is a knowing that we have got to push our kids 
to eat well. And the first time your child rejects a green bean 
or Brussels sprout you don't give up.
    So I think that is part of the balance here. It is taste 
and appeal, as well as continuing to offer healthy nutritious 
food, which will not just affect their health today but their 
lifetime.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. In the last minute that I have, could you 
just talk a little bit about farm to school, that program, and 
how it is viewed? And kind of what the status is of it? And how 
do you see it moving forward? Because it has been a great 
success, I think.
    Ms. Dean. Oh, that is wonderful to hear. Farm to school I 
think is one of our most successful and cherished programs from 
all corners of the country. They did wonderful job connecting 
local producers to schools, teaching kids about where their 
food comes from, helping schools meet their Buy America 
requirements, and of course fulfill the nutrition standards 
with healthy, delicious food.
    So we would love to do more with that program and would be 
happy to work with the Committee on addressing minor barriers 
that can prevent some schools from coming in. But it is 
wonderful success. We want to continue to grow it.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you.
    And next I recognize Representative Mrvan for five minutes 
for your questions.
    Mr. Mrvan. Good afternoon. I thank you very much for your 
testimony, for your engagement.
    Very quickly, my wife is a dietician. I am excited that we 
are talking about sodium intake and salt. But most importantly 
realizing that the goal is to remove obstacles for children to 
make sure that they are in an environment to learn and that 
they are properly fed and have nutrition. That being said, I 
also was a township trustee that provided poor relief to over 
180,000 individuals. And we worked very closely during the 
pandemic with the school systems to make sure that those most 
vulnerable populations were able to receive meals and even 
beyond and what a difference that that made.
    So I want to among those thousands of families, I want to 
thank you for that initiative in going forward and have 
participated making sure families were aware of the summer 
programs. That being said, I am grateful that we now have an 
administration that is committed to ending the COVID-19 
pandemic. But I do worry about the economic impacts of COVID-19 
will be ongoing for many families.
    Ms. Dean, what are some of the ongoing challenges you think 
families will face when it comes to feeding their children over 
the next few years? And what can Congress do to ease that 
transition as children go back to school and certain emergency 
relief programs, including the pandemic EBT and when it starts 
to expire?
    Ms. Dean. Thank you very much for that question and for 
your leadership on these issues for some time. You know, as the 
economy begins to recover, which will be wonderful news, it is 
important to remember that low-income households typically 
don't experience economic improvement as quickly as the rest of 
the country.
    We may continue to see elevated unemployment and high rates 
of poverty. And so that often for example in my world shows up 
as continued elevated enrollment in SNAP. And that is just 
because economic recovery is not always equally felt.
    This president is focused on making sure that this recovery 
is truly progressive and brings along the whole country. And 
some of the things that he believes will help achieve that are 
in the families plan and the jobs plan.
    So making a strong childcare so that all parents know that 
their kids are healthy and safe, they are out looking for work, 
a stronger unemployment insurance program, continued support 
through SNAP.
    These are the kinds of wraparound--as well as paid leave, 
these are the kinds of wraparounds that will help bring strong 
economic recovery for everyone. And I appreciate your focus on 
the fact that not everyone will experience the economy snapping 
back quite as quickly and we need to be mindful of that.
    Mr. Mrvan. I thank you very much for your testimony and 
your commitment to school children.
    And with that, I yield back, Chairwoman.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you very much. Next, I recognize 
Representative Spartz for five minutes for your questions.
    Mrs. Spartz. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    And I have a question for Ms. Dean related, as a former 
auditor, to some fraud and audits.
    So as I look up in 2019, Government Accountability Office 
cited USDA for not assessing fraud risk comprehensively and in 
compliance with the Fraud Risk Framework. They also noted the 
high estimated improper payment error rates and vulnerability 
to fraud. So this is a problem with high risk of fraud.
    And my question is for you, now you are asking, you know, 
for $45 billion more for expenditure in this program. So I 
would like to know what processes you are implementing to make 
sure you are in compliance with the Fraud Risk Framework, and 
you have proper control to address the risk of fraud.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you very much for that question, 
Congresswoman. You raised a critical point. The public's trust 
in us is critical to me and knowing that taxpayer dollars are 
going for their intended purpose is critical. It is the core 
component of what we need to do and how we want to design these 
programs.
    So one of the things that is wonderful about the summer EBT 
program is because it will pivot off of enrollment in other 
programs, for example, SNAP, that does an incredibly robust and 
rigorous assessment of eligibility. We have a high degree of 
confidence about eligibility for those benefits and, of course, 
we know that families are using those benefits for food. So I 
think we feel very good about that, but we would be happy to 
work with the Committee.
    And let me also say one other thing. Our budget isn't out 
yet. That will be forthcoming, of course, in a couple of weeks. 
But one of the things that I want to do at FNS is we absolutely 
need to increase our staff, our extraordinary group of people 
here.
    Federal spending on the Nutrition Programs has grown 
significantly while our staff has shrunk, and that compromises 
our ability to oversee these programs. And I want to lean in 
and acknowledge that and ask for the resources we need to 
steward these programs to the high degree that the public and 
you expect.
    Mrs. Spartz. So generally, if you say you are planning to 
implement, I want to confirm, because the Government 
Accountability Office said that they recommend for Food and 
Nutrition Services to establish a process--who administer 
them--to plan and conduct regular progress assessments for the 
School Meals Program that align with leading practices in the 
Fraud Risk Framework.
    So are you planning to perform these regular assessments of 
fraud risk and internal procedures to make sure that you are 
complying with that Framework?
    Ms. Dean. So we have fairly regular assessments on program 
integrity. But since I am not tracking to the specific issue 
that you are raising; can I followup with you on that to make 
sure--
    Mrs. Spartz. I just wanted to make sure because I wanted to 
see. They haven't released the recent--what is happening in 
2020. That was a review of 2019. But since we are looking to 
expand even further some of these programs, we need to make 
sure that we have proper procedures and controls in place, and 
you are complying with Fraud Risk Assessment Framework that the 
Government Accountability Office requires all other agencies 
to.
    So I would be happy to followup with you and make sure that 
you have these processes and have it on your radar too.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you. I appreciate that. I will followup.
    Mrs. Spartz. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you. I now recognize 
Representative Bowman for five minutes for your questions.
    Mr. Bowman. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Dean, thank you so much for appearing before us today. 
I represent the 16th District of New York, which includes parts 
of the Bronx and parts of Westchester. I am hearing directly 
from my constituents who qualify for SNAP that they are 
experiencing problems with applying for and receiving benefits.
    One recurring piece of feedback I get is that the once-a-
month distribution of benefits creates problems at the end of 
the month when they have already expended the majority or all 
of their benefits.
    In addition to increasing the SNAP benefit, what kind of 
administrative costs would be associated with distributing 
benefits on a biweekly basis so that the pacing reflects a more 
realistic pattern for getting food throughout the month.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you. Interesting question. So I think the 
statute, the SNAP statute actually prohibits splitting issuance 
into two, wanting to give the control to households on how they 
manage and budget their funds.
    But I think--so I think the core issue is making sure that 
households have a benefit that is sufficient. And so you are 
giving me the opportunity to just remind folks that the 
Secretary, at Congress' direction, has asked us to reevaluate 
SNAP's Thrifty Food Program, the basis for the basic benefit, 
to ensure that it is an adequate level to purchase a healthy 
diet with respect to the dietary guidelines and also sort of 
consistent with current prices and consumer spending patterns.
    So we hope to wrap that process up this summer. And it is 
my hope that when households have a realistic benefit that will 
allow them to access nutritious food, that we will take away 
some of this core stress and this end-of-month crisis.
    Mr. Bowman. Thank you.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you.
    Mr. Bowman. Also, the enacted COVID relief packages to date 
have been responsive to the dramatic increase in food 
insecurity experienced by children and families this past year.
    But that combined investment has not been sufficient to end 
food insecurity overall. Tens of millions of families are 
struggling today to feed themselves. As a former educator and 
principal myself, I know that if a child is hungry, they can't 
focus on learning in the classroom.
    What level of investment would be necessary, is necessary 
to permanently end domestic food insecurity?
    Ms. Dean. That is a good question. You know, I don't know 
the answer to that, but I do think that a big part of it is not 
just with respect to food assistance. I mean, you, as an 
educator, probably could tell me more about what families need. 
They need good-paying jobs. They need access to health coverage 
so that they are not choosing between paying medical bills and 
feeding their kids, and they need affordable, safe places to 
live.
    So I think that is a big part of why the Families Plan, the 
Jobs Plan, and the Rescue Plan together are trying to deal with 
the conditions that cause people to be hungry. And I think that 
is the better way. That, along with a strong economy and good-
paying jobs, is the right pathway forward to addressing hunger.
    Mr. Bowman. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I yield back.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you very much.
    Now we are going to hear from the Chairman of the full 
Committee, Congressman Scott. I recognize you for five minutes.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    And thank you, Ms. Dean, for being with us today. We heard 
about that code word ``evidence-based.'' I was just wondering 
if we can count on you to make your decisions based on evidence 
rather than slogans and sound bites?
    Ms. Dean. Always. I am an analyst at heart. Absolutely.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. The Community Eligibility Program, 
you mentioned that decreases paperwork and administrative 
costs, helps families who fall just outside the eligibility 
limits, removes the stigma. Some children have to go through 
paperwork, others don't.
    You mentioned that about nine million additional children 
will be covered by Community Eligibility. How close are we 
getting to universal coverage for school meals? We have had 
proposals from members of the Committee to just serve 
everybody. Are we getting close?
    Ms. Dean. Thanks for asking. I think with the American 
Families Plan proposal, we believe we would reach about half of 
our Nation's schools. Unfortunately, half of our Nation's 
schools are high-poverty schools, where they are serving a 
significant share of low-income children. And I think we would 
hit about 45 percent of the kids. So--
    Mr. Scott. With Community Eligibility. And then the rest 
have to go through paperwork to get qualified. So that we would 
only be adding on--we are getting close to where we can add, 
and it would be affordable just to do everybody. So just keep 
that in mind.
    On the automatic eligibility, can you talk about how 
valuable that is. If you have Medicaid or if you have got SSI, 
you are automatically qualified. You don't have to do all the 
paperwork. You don't have to go find records and everything. 
How helpful is that?
    Ms. Dean. I would love to talk about that. So the way it 
works right now is mostly through SNAP. And imagine a mom who 
goes and applies for SNAP, which is a very rigorous process. It 
can take hours. They have to turn in paperwork. There is an 
interview. She has self-identified as food insecure and in need 
of help.
    And so the way the law works now is, in applying for SNAP, 
if she has school-age children, they are automatically picked 
up and enrolled into free school meals. And I think that is the 
right values, and that is government helping someone in need.
    What the American Families Plan would do is propose to 
extend that to Medicaid and SSI, where, again, parents are 
going through an incredibly rigorous process. And it seems to 
me government is at its best when it is offering them that 
additional help, passporting those kids over to free school 
meals. It also increases program integrity. So it is a 
wonderful way to connect folks to the Meals Program.
    Mr. Scott. OK. Thank you.
    The Pandemic EBT was extended through the end of the public 
health emergency. We are aware that 40 States have already 
gotten qualified for K through 12. Twenty-two States have done 
children under six. What is the agency doing to make sure all 
of the States get qualified as soon as possible?
    Ms. Dean. I have an update on that. We are actually up to 
43 States with school plans and 24 on childcare.
    My team has to report into me basically every 2 days on 
where we are at. And with every State where we haven't got--
where it is submitted but not approved or it hasn't yet been 
submitted, I am aware of exactly where it is, because we intend 
to get to all States.
    Mr. Scott. Good. You said the majority of the school 
districts comply with the school nutrition standards. What does 
majority mean?
    Ms. Dean. You know, I would need to get back to you with 
the exact number but we have--
    Mr. Scott. It is virtually all of them, isn't it?
    Ms. Dean. Thank you. Yes, thank you. It is virtually all.
    Mr. Scott. OK. And in plate waste, where students are not 
eating the food, have you found that to be no worse with good 
nutrition than with bad nutrition?
    Ms. Dean. It is actually less bad with good nutrition. We 
see increased intake of vegetables and dairy and good healthy 
food and less plate waste overall, relative to the food that 
kids bring from home.
    Mr. Scott. So that the districts aren't having problems 
complying and the children are getting better nutrition would 
suggest that we don't need to dilute the nutrition standards, 
it seems to me.
    Ms. Dean. It would absolutely suggest that.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you, Chairman Scott.
    Now I recognize Representative Leger Fernandez for five 
minutes for your questions.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
    And congratulations, Ms. Dean, on your appointment. I look 
forward to working with you. As I noted, I am from New Mexico 
and have many Tribes in my district, so I want to touch on 
those issues a little bit later.
    But I really am grateful for the decision to expand until 
2022 and the idea of enrolling more schools and perhaps 
expanding the Community Program so that we avoid that 
paperwork. I hear about that often. You know, my State has a 
majority of Title I schools.
    But I want to talk a little bit about lunch shaming, you 
know, which will happen if we don't get to more universal 
provision of school lunches. And, as you know and as the 
Committee knows, that is a practice of embarrassing or singling 
out children who can't afford the school lunch that day.
    And, you know, in 2010, Congress did address the USDA and 
asked them to provide a response. There were several fact 
sheets that the USDA has issued, one of which was entitled 
``Meal Charges Fact Sheet,'' which I am going to quote, says: 
``USDA requires school food authorities to develop and 
communicate a policy for handling unpaid meal charges, but 
allows local officials to define how that policy works.'' In 
another fact sheet, the Preventing Lunch Shaming: Communication 
Strategies, it simply says that USDA discourages the use of 
hand stamps, stickers, et cetera.
    I ask unanimous consent to put these documents into the 
record, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Without objection.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. So I wanted to ask you whether USDA 
currently has a policy that explicitly prohibits lunch shaming, 
or is it merely guidance to discourage the practice?
    Ms. Dean. We require the locals to have a policy. So, as I 
think you actually accurately described our policy. And, you 
know, I would really like to work with the Committee so that we 
can do better. Children should not be put in the middle of this 
problem. And that is just unacceptable, and we need to see if 
there is a way that we can develop a framework so that 
districts just don't do that.
    Ms. Dean. I really appreciate hearing that. You know, I had 
the example of the little Alabama child who was stamped with 
``I need money for my lunch,'' and I take it you would agree 
that that is unacceptable.
    Ms. Dean. Yes. In my position and as a parent, yes, I feel 
that way very strongly. So it is tricky, and we need to sort 
out how to do it, but we look forward to working with you on 
that.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. I look forward to working with you as 
well. I will be reintroducing the Anti-Lunch Shaming Act to 
prohibit, not simply discourage but actually prohibit schools 
from publicly stigmatizing a child who can't afford their 
lunch. And, you know, as you pointed out, school hunger is an 
issue, and it is not the child's fault, and we need to take 
care to not put that blame on the child.
    I wanted to move a bit to the issue of Tribal Nutrition 
Programs. As you are aware, that there are some limitations on 
the ability of Tribes to administer the Food Assistance 
Programs. I am going to be looking at introducing the Tribal 
Nutrition Improvement Act to make sure that Tribes can 
administer the Food Assistance Programs directly. In my 
experience--I have worked with Tribes for 30 years--self-
determination we have found out works really well.
    But can you describe what actions the Department of 
Agriculture is taking to ensure Tribes that have been really 
hit hard by the pandemic, what actions is USDA taking right now 
to assist with these Nutrition Programs and allowing the Tribes 
to have the control they need?
    Ms. Dean. Well, thank you for the question. And I know that 
my staff and your staff have been talking about that bill. So I 
look forward to the next steps on that.
    First off, USDA has held I believe two formal consultations 
across the agency to hear from Tribes, just to begin to renew 
our relationship and to do it in a way that respects Tribal 
sovereignty. We have held Tribal consultation with respect to 
the Food Distribution Program on Indian Reservations, which is 
a Tribal alternative to SNAP, and I have also done specialized 
stakeholder listening.
    So one, it just begins with hearing what the issues are and 
where and how our programs are being responsive. There has been 
a significant amount of targeted assistance provided to Tribes, 
which I can followup with you on. But clearly, there is more we 
can do, particularly with respect to the way the relationship 
works.
    Ms. Leger Fernandez. I look forward to that ongoing 
communication and thank you for listening to the Tribes.
    My time is up. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you.
    I see no other members for questions, so I want to now 
remind my colleagues that--was there another Member present?
    Mr. Fulcher. Madam Chair, this is Congressman Fulcher. I 
just wanted to--if there was an opportunity for a closing 
statement, I would like to make that when the time is right.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Yes, we will get to that. I just want 
to make sure we got all the members for questions.
    Mr. Fulcher. Great. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. You are welcome.
    I do want to remind my colleagues that, pursuant to 
Committee practice, materials for submission to the hearing 
record must be submitted to the Committee Clerk within 14 days 
following the last day of the hearing, so by the close of 
business on May 26, 2021, preferably in Microsoft Word format. 
The materials submitted must address the subject matter of the 
hearing. Only a Member of the Subcommittee or an invited 
witness may submit materials for inclusion into the hearing 
record. Documents are limited to 50 pages each. Documents 
longer than 50 pages will be incorporated into the record via 
an internet link that you must provide to the Committee Clerk 
within the required timeframe. So please recognize that in the 
future that link may no longer work.
    Pursuant to House rules and regulations, items for the 
record should be submitted to the Clerk electronically by 
emailing submissions to [email protected].
    Again, I want to thank the witness for your participation 
today. Members of the Subcommittee may have some additional 
questions for you. We ask you to please respond to those 
questions in writing. The hearing record will be held open for 
14 days to receive those responses.
    I remind my colleagues that, pursuant to Committee 
practice, the questions for the hearing record must be 
submitted to the Majority Committee Staff or Committee Clerk 
within 7 days. The questions submitted must address the subject 
matter of the hearing.
    And I now recognize the distinguished Ranking Member for a 
closing statement. You are muted, Mr. Fulcher.
    Mr. Fulcher. OK. I have a touchy mute button, and so I 
apologize about that. But thank you for recognizing me.
    Madam Chair, I have a report in front of me from the 
American Enterprise Institute, Reimagining School Meals for a 
Post-Pandemic Era. I would just like to enter that into the 
record if I may, please.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Without objection.
    Mr. Fulcher. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    And Deputy Under Secretary Dean, thank you for joining us 
today. I just wanted to recap a couple of the points that were 
made today or that were brought up. First of all, just how 
important it is, whatever we have, that it is able to work 
actually on the ground and it works for our hardworking school 
officials, just because if it is not easy to implement, it is 
not going to be successful anyway.
    We talked about strong accountability for these programs 
and the support for better nutrition education. That is just 
good for everyone.
    There was a hesitation on a commitment to limiting the cost 
that schools will face. That is a supersensitive button, 
especially in my State and a lot of the Western States.
    And just to underscore why, we struggle with our school 
funding probably more than most States do, simply because most 
of our land mass is federally owned. We don't have a broad-
based property tax, which is a tool to often fund those 
mechanisms. There are other things that have been put in place, 
but nevertheless, it is just not the same as having a broad-
based property tax. So the cost is very, very sensitive. So our 
schools face enough challenges without adding to cost and 
unfunded mandates on that front.
    So we did hear some positive news about just the commitment 
to work with us on these proposals so that it doesn't get too 
layered and too complex. So thank you for that.
    And just last, Madam Chair and Mrs. Dean, Congressman 
Fitzgerald from Wisconsin made I think some really good points. 
And in my State of Idaho, yes, we are known for potatoes, but 
we have got a strong dairy presence as well.
    And recently, Secretary Vilsack said in Ag Subcommittee 
that the kids are not drinking the no-fat milk, but they are 
drinking the low-fat milk. And so I just want to point that 
out. It is important to have something that will actually be 
consumed and enjoyed.
    Schools in my district have expressed concern also about 
the USDA guidelines being not particularly clear or flexible. 
And so any help that you can help us with on that would be 
much, much appreciated. And the need to continue to serve low-
fat flavored milk is just very, very important.
    With that, Madam Chair and Mrs. Dean, I thank you for the 
time for this hearing. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Bonamici. Thank you very much.
    And I now recognize myself for the purpose of making a 
closing statement.
    Deputy Under Secretary Dean, thank you again for being with 
us and for discussing the work that you and the Biden 
administration have done and will continue to do to expand 
access to the Child Nutrition Programs. We look forward to 
working with you.
    Our discussion today was a stark reminder of the scale and 
severity of the child hunger crisis. And even as we recover 
from the pandemic, parents and families still face steep 
challenges putting food on the table. And without nutritious 
food, too many children are losing the critical foundation they 
need to succeed in school, lead a healthy life, and thrive.
    But today, we also confirmed that the early relief we 
secured for school nutrition, the Childhood Nutrition Program 
took significant steps in the right direction. These 
investments helped put healthy food into the hands and the 
bellies of millions of children.
    As we learned last week, hunger is now at its lowest since 
the pandemic began. We cannot abandon this meaningful progress. 
As elected leaders, we have the opportunity and truly the moral 
obligation to make sure that our Nation's children do not go 
hungry. But we cannot fulfill that responsibility unless we 
come together to support the vital Nutrition Programs that are 
now sustaining millions of children.
    I am very encouraged by the Ranking Member's recognition of 
the importance of these Nutrition Programs. I do recall in 
prior hearings over the years learning from those experts on 
the ground, in the schools who are successfully implementing 
programs, for example, under the Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act 
standards. I look forward to the conversations about these, 
about the Farm to School Program, and all of the other issues 
that we discussed today.
    So, Deputy Under Secretary Dean, we do look forward to 
working with you to make sure that the American Families Plan 
builds on our progress to expand nutrition assistance while 
also supporting our local farmers. And I look forward to 
working with all my colleagues to provide our children with 
nutritious food that will fuel their health and development.
    If there is no further business, without objection, I yield 
back, and the Subcommittee stands adjourned. Thank you, 
everyone.

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    [Whereupon, at 1:24 p.m. the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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