[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
REAFFIRMING THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON EUROPE, ENERGY, THE ENVIRONMENT AND CYBER
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
MAY 5, 2021
__________
Serial No. 117-34
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://
docs.house.gov,
or http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
44-452PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
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COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York, Chairman
BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey Member
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
KAREN BASS, California SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts DARRELL ISSA, California
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
AMI BERA, California LEE ZELDIN, New York
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas ANN WAGNER, Missouri
DINA TITUS, Nevada BRIAN MAST, Florida
TED LIEU, California BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania KEN BUCK, Colorado
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota MARK GREEN, Tennessee
COLIN ALLRED, Texas ANDY BARR, Kentucky
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan GREG STEUBE, Florida
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey PETER MEIJER, Michigan
ANDY KIM, New Jersey NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York
SARA JACOBS, California RONNY JACKSON, Texas
KATHY MANNING, North Carolina YOUNG KIM, California
JIM COSTA, California MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida
JUAN VARGAS, California JOE WILSON, South Carolina
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
Sophia Lafargue, Staff Director
Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on Europe, Energy,the Environment and Cyber
WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts, Chairman
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia BRIAN FITZPATRICK,
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania Pennsylvania, Ranking Member
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey ANN WAGNER, Missouri
THEODORE DEUTCH, Florida ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island BRIAN MAST, Florida
DINA TITUS, Nevada DAN MEUSER, Texas
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas
JIM COSTA, California NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, NEW YORK
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas PETER MEIJER, Michigan
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
Leah Nodvin, Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESSES
McWilliams, Monica, Emeritus Professor, Transitional Justice
Initiative, Ulster University.................................. 9
Morrice, Jane, Member of the Board of Governors, Integrated
Education Fund................................................. 18
Reiss, Hon. Mitchell, Commissioner, Independent Reporting
Commission..................................................... 27
Neal, Congressman Richard E., United States House of
Representatives................................................ 55
APPENDIX
Hearing Notice................................................... 58
Hearing Minutes.................................................. 59
Hearing Attendance............................................... 60
RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
Responses to questions submitted for the record.................. 61
REAFFIRMING THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT
Wednesday, May 5, 2021
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Europe, Energy, the Environment,
and Cyber,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:06 a.m.,
via Webex, Hon. William R. Keating (chairman of the
subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Keating. The House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee will
come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to
declare a recess of the committee at any point; and all members
will have 5 days to submit statements, extraneous material, and
questions for the record, subject to the length and limitations
of the rules.
To insert something into the record, please have your staff
email the previously mentioned address, or contact full
committee staff.
Please, keep your video function on at all times, even when
you are not recognized by the chair. Members are responsible
for muting and unmuting themselves, and please remember to mute
yourself after you finish speaking.
Consistent with House Res. 965 and the accompanying
regulation, staff will only mute members and witnesses when it
is appropriate, and they are not under recognition, for the
purpose of eliminating background noise.
I see that we have a quorum present, and I will now
recognize myself for opening remarks.
Pursuant to notice, we are holding a hearing today entitled
``Reaffirming the Good Friday Agreement.'' I cannot recall one
instance meeting with Irish officials when the sincere
gratitude for what they term to us, the indispensable U.S.
involvement in the Good Friday Agreement was not expressed.
That is why a year and a half ago, I held a meeting before this
subcommittee on implications of Brexit for Northern Ireland and
the Good Friday Agreement, as well as possible paths forward in
implementing the Northern Ireland Protocol.
As we all know, the Northern Ireland Protocol was a key
point of controversy within Brexit. This protocol was
established in order to ensure that the United Kingdom could
exit the European Union's common market without creating a,
quote/unquote, ``hard border between Northern Ireland and the
Republic of Ireland.''
With Brexit now behind us, we are seeing the impacts of the
withdrawal play out at shipping ports, in unstocked
supermarkets, on the streets of Northern Ireland. The
complicated components of the withdrawal agreement, the effects
of the COVID-19 pandemic, and underlying economic instability
in the region have converged to create a very difficult
environment.
Unfortunately, in the last few weeks, we have also seen a
resurgence of violence across Northern Ireland, involving young
people, 12 years of age, born more than a decade after the
signing of the Good Friday Agreement. While this violence may
have been sparked in the process of implementing the Northern
Ireland Protocol, it is truly rooted in historic divisions.
After a period of relative stability and positive direction
following years of peace-building efforts, this recent violence
stopped many of us in our tracks, myself included. This is
because clashes between groups in Northern Ireland have been
incredibly dangerous in the past. Northern Ireland has already
mourned the loss of more than 3,500 lives, many of whom were
civilians during the violence and chaos, commonly known as The
Troubles.
While recent violence has slowed, it has also reminded us
that peace in Europe is not something to be taken for granted.
It is a status of life that we constantly work toward and
buildupon. For this reason, I have called this hearing to
reflect on, and reaffirm the Good Friday Agreement, and better
understand the underlying tensions and the current situation on
the ground.
The Good Friday Agreement was signed 23 years ago, on April
10, 1998. To come to this agreement, representatives and
activists in Northern Ireland, and the United Kingdom, came
together to discuss paths forward. The United States played a
key role, with former U.S. Senate Majority Leader George
Mitchell, chairing the negotiations. Since then, many of us
here in Congress, led by Chairman Richie Neal, have continued
to support the progress that has been made under this
agreement.
Now, in the face of renewed violence, I have called this
hearing, invited founding members of the Northern Ireland
Women's Coalition, a group who played integral roles in the
Good Friday Agreement negotiations, and have continued to be at
the forefront, advocating for representation and dealing with
the past.
The Northern Ireland Women's Coalition was established in
1996, to ensure representation of women at the Good Friday
Agreement negotiations. These women were bound by a common
vision as well as values of inclusion, equality, and human
rights.
After just a few weeks of incredibly intense political
organizing, the Coalition was successful in sending two
delegates, including hearing witness Monica McWilliams, to the
negotiations. Incorporating both Catholic and Protestant
voices, their efforts ensured representation and community
engagement in many countries, and including our own.
As we look forward and we look at the strife around the
world today, I join many people in pointing to the peace
agreement as a means of hope, as a beacon for potential peace
throughout the world. As the landmark Women, Peace, and
Security Resolution 1325 underscores, when women are involved
in peace negotiation, agreements have been proven to be more
effective and last longer. And the Good Friday Agreement is no
exception to this.
Through the inclusion of diverse voices during the peace-
building process, and thanks to the courageous and vital work
of the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition, and especially the
founding members here with us today, the agreement is stronger
and more comprehensive, and still serves as a bedrock for peace
in Northern Ireland.
We hold this hearing today because of the integral role of
the U.S. in the Good Friday Agreement, because it is a U.S.
priority, and because we must not just deal with The Troubles
of today, but, also, deal with the issues of full
implementation going forward. With that said, we will hold this
hearing to allow us to better understand the process, the
longstanding implications of the Good Friday Agreement in the
present day.
With that, I am going to recognize for his opening
statement, Representative Brian Fitzpatrick.
Mr. Fitzpatrick. Good afternoon. Thank you, Chairman
Keating. Thank you to our esteemed witnesses today, who were
instrumental in ushering peace and stability in Northern
Ireland. The United States remains committed to supporting the
hard-won progress made in Northern Ireland since the Good
Friday Agreement and helping Belfast achieve a prosperous and
lasting peace.
Ireland and Northern Ireland hold a dear place for me, and
the people of Pennsylvania that I represent, and I know the
people that everyone on our committee represents. For me
personally, my grandfather migrated from the border region, and
my father helped found the Irish-American Cultural Society in
my hometown.
The Good Friday Agreement, forged, in part, by individuals
in this room, is one of the greatest diplomatic success stories
of the 20th century. Violence deescalated, trade and tourism
swelled, and the people of Northern Ireland, from different
communities, sought out a path to a future that would bring
lasting peace. The agreement called for the signers to affirm
their commitment to the mutual respect, civil rights, and
religious liberties of everyone in the community.
Just as the United States was present to facilitate the
negotiations that achieved the Good Friday Agreement in 1998,
the U.S. Government must continue to push for the agreement's
full implementation and the consolidation for peace.
Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell's role, in
brokering the peace talks, established a strong example of what
U.S. support and interests can achieve. Toward that end, I look
forward to hearing from our witnesses on how the United States
can best support efforts in Northern Ireland to foster peace
and reconciliation.
I am thrilled that we will hear today from the Honorable
Mitchell Reiss, who I hope can expand on the importance of the
United States appointing a special envoy to Northern Ireland, a
role he once held.
Moreover, I look forward to hearing from the witnesses on
the remaining threats to peace and prosperity in Northern
Ireland. I hope that they will address the drivers of the
recent riots and violence that erupted in Northern Ireland
earlier this year.
It is especially important to understand to what degree
Unionist discontent with the new post-Brexit arrangements drove
the violence, when compared to other factors, including
frustration caused by COVID-19 lockdowns and poor socioeconomic
conditions.
The United States, and the U.S. Congress, must remain
committed to sustaining the peace process and generating cross-
community engagement and economic opportunity in Northern
Ireland.
Moreover, we must work with the U.K. government, the Irish
government, and the EU to ensure the trade frictions resulting
from the implementation of the Northern Ireland Protocol are
resolved, and that all communities in Northern Ireland can reap
the economic benefits of the peace dividend.
I also hope our witnesses will address the enduring threat
of parliamentarianism, and how the United States can support
efforts to disarm and disband these organizations. We are
fortunate today to have two members of the Independent
Reporting Commission, which was established to address
parliamentarianism in Northern Ireland, to provide their
insights on how to eradicate this threat that imperils the
legacy of the Good Friday Agreement.
We are experiencing a highly polarizing time on Capitol
Hill. There are many things that divide our friends across the
aisle from all of us. But when it comes to a commitment to
peace to Northern Ireland, Members of both parties can stand
completely united.
It is my hope today that Congress can learn from our
witnesses how the United States can continue to support the
implementation of their peace-making strategies moving forward.
Mr. Chairman, thank you for calling the hearing today for
an issue that is near and dear to my heart. I look forward to
the discussion. And I yield back.
Mr. Keating. I thank the ranking member for his comments,
and also for the bipartisan spirit he demonstrated in those,
and to really send a signal to everyone, that on the issue of
Ireland, that we are together across the aisle.
And I would also like to thank all our witnesses for
joining us today. As founding members of the Coalition, you
have been on the ground since the days of the negotiations, and
have continued to be the forefront of transitional justice,
disbanding paramilitary groups, and integrating education and
representation into the political structure that is there
today.
Your testimony will help us better understand the
longstanding impacts of the Good Friday Agreement, and how we
can move beyond Brexit, and beyond the pandemic, to ensure
stability that lasts for generations to come. As Members of
Congress, we continue to support the work you have set out to
do, ensuring inclusion, equality, and human rights in Northern
Ireland.
Professor Monica McWilliams is an emeritus professor at
UlsterUniversity's Transitional Justice Initiative and
Commissioner for the Independent Reporting Commission. She is a
former Chief Commissioner of the Northern Ireland Human Rights
Commission, former member of the Legislative Assembly of
Northern Ireland, co-founder of the Northern Ireland Women's
Coalition, and a signatory to the Good Friday Agreement.
Ms. Jane Morrice is a member of the Board of Governors at
the Integrated Education Fund. She is a Deputy Speaker of the
Northern Ireland Assembly, former head of the European
Commission Office in Northern Ireland, and co-founder of the
Northern Ireland Women's Coalition.
Ambassador Mitchell Reiss is a Commissioner for the
Independent Reporting Commission. He is also a former United
States Special Envoy for Northern Ireland.
I will now recognize the witnesses for 5 minutes each.
If I could, I would like to ask unanimous consent because
Mr. Sires, as a chairman, will be leaving. If I have unanimous
consent, I would like to recognize him for a brief statement
before he has to leave with his duties as chair of Western
Hemisphere.
Mr. Sires, do you have, without objection, any introductory
comments?
Mr. Sires. Well, thank you very much. What I wanted to say
is, my first trip, or one of the first trips I ever took from
becoming a Congressman, was to Northern Ireland. And for me,
being Cuban, when I got there, the whole thing was really an
eye-opener for me.
One of the things that was most vivid to me is when we got
there, they put us in a bus and took us across this bridge
where they had made a temporary basketball court. And I saw
kids, both Protestants and Catholics, playing.
As we gathered around talking to the kids, no sooner did we
get there, 20 minutes later, the bus driver came over and put
us back in the bus and said, Look, we have to leave. I said, we
just got here, why? He said, Well, because at 8 o'clock, they
close the bridge, and we had to get back to the other side. So
that, to me, was like really moving in the sense that there was
still so much division.
And my concern now is, do we have anybody that took the
steps that Bill Clinton took, or Mitchell took, to try to
tamper down the violence, or what is going on there now? And
obviously, I have a lot of concern what Brexit is going to do
to this peace that was so long in coming that was worked out.
So that is what I wanted to say. You know, I am sorry I have to
leave, but, you know----
Mr. Keating. Well, thank you. Thank you, Chairman Sires,
and thanks for your perspective. And it is one more lesson, and
one more example, given your work as chairman, Western
Hemisphere, how the example of peace in Northern Ireland still
gives hope to so many other parts of the world. Thank you.
I will now recognize the witnesses for 5 minutes each. And,
without objection, your prepared written statement will be made
part of the record.
Professor McWilliams, you are now recognized for your
opening statement.
STATEMENT OF MONICA MCWILLIAMS, EMERITUS PROFESSOR,
TRANSITIONAL JUSTICE INITIATIVE, ULSTER UNIVERSITY
Ms. McWilliams. Thank you very much, Chair. And I am
delighted to participate in this hearing today. As you just
heard, I was a signatory to the Belfast Good Friday Agreement.
And it has not only saved lives over the past 23 years, but
it was the basis for us to build future stability on the island
of Ireland, north and south, and to build strong relationships
between us in Northern Ireland, Southern Ireland, and the U.K.,
as well as making our connections with the rest of Europe. And
it has been an example, a good model of conflict resolution for
the rest of the world.
And I would like to put on the record here today my
acknowledgement of the consistent expressions of support for
the Good Friday Agreement by U.S. political leaders, and you
yourselves today, from across the political-aisle, and the
attention constantly and consistently paid to the
implementation of the Northern Ireland Protocol and the new
Trade and Cooperation Agreement resulting from Brexit.
The next 4 years could prove to be quite difficult and
contentious times for us. This year, we have the centenary of
the partition of Ireland. We also have the 50th anniversary of
internment without trial this year, the 40th anniversary of the
Republican hunger strikes this year, the Assembly elections
next year, at the very latest. And, indeed, there is the
Assembly vote on the Protocol coming in 2024. And the census
will be published shortly, which may also determine the demands
for a-_ referendum to be held on Irish unification.- That
referendum was, indeed, part of the agreement.
So all of that is lying ahead of us, and this is,
potentially, a perfect storm that needs judicious and careful
handling, and the continued interest of you in the United
States.
First, let me turn to the issue of protecting rights and
equality. Many civic society groups and organizations are very
concerned at the impact that Brexit is now having on the
protection of the rights and equality provisions that were in
the Good Friday Agreement, and particularly, the interest that
the European Union had in protecting those rights, and the
legislation that was included as part of us being in the
European Union.
It is little wonder now that we have these concerns,
particularly that no breaches of human rights and equality
should occur, as they were contributory factors to the long-
running conflict that I lived through.
And, so, it is really important that we continue to ensure
that Brexit does not affect this, that the current review of
the Human Rights Act that is currently being undertaken by the
U.K. Government does not affect this, nor, indeed, the Trade
and Cooperation Agreement that has, indeed, weakened some labor
rights and environmental rights and have raised those concerns.
So, the Bill of Rights that was promised in the Good Friday
Agreement is still outstanding. As Chief Commissioner of the
Human Rights Commission, over 13 years ago, I presented that
advice, with my fellow Commissioners, to the U.K. Government,
and there it sits on 10 Downing Street ever since.
As a result of the recent negotiations between the parties,
they agreed that there should be a Bill of Rights Committee
established at the Assembly. And it is good to see all those
parties now sitting around the table discussing this much-
needed issue, in terms of the future provisions of human rights
and equality.
But the agreement did not ask me, nor my fellow
Commissioners, to find consensus before we presented that
advice on the Bill of Rights, and that remains a continuous
concern, that there may not be consensus found at the local
level in Northern Ireland. But the U.K. Government still needs
to hold up its promise to legislate on the Bill of Rights,
particularly at the time that we are now leaving Europe and
given the context of Brexit. So that is the first point that I
would like to make.
The second is in relation to the issue of inclusion. The
Women's Coalition stood on three principles: equality, human
rights, and inclusion. And back then, it was mostly political
inclusion; but today, we are concerned about the issues of
economic and social inclusion.
And perhaps, indeed, the recent disturbances on the street
reflect some of that in that many people, particularly many of
those in the Unionist community, perceive themselves to have
been left behind. And I do think that these perceptions
sometimes can become reality. And, therefore, we need a much
clearer analysis of the potential positive opportunities for
remaining in the EU single market, especially for people who
feel that their communities have lost out on investments and
jobs and training and education.
It is also good to see, however, the amount of good work
that has been invested at the interface levels, at the hot
spots in the disadvantaged areas, by youth workers, by
community workers, by community leaders and civic leaders. And
I observed it myself over the recent month.
And I pay tribute here to the International Fund for
Ireland that invested so much in making sure that that the
dividends of their work in community development paid off, and,
indeed, it did. And I was also pleased to see the church
leaders standing together at the interface, showing their
solidarity across the religious denominations at a time when it
was most needed, and at the height of those disturbances. That
is all good for peace.
And, as we know, peace-building involves communication, and
it involves the building of trust. And also, there is an
initiative called Politics in Action in schools. And today,
these young people across Northern Ireland will be watching
this particular hearing, and taking an avid interest in the
United States' interest and the Members of Congress' interest
in Northern Ireland.
All these initiatives with young people are much needed.
And, indeed, one of the concerns recently has been that the
programs for young people during the summer are closed. And we
continue to need diversionary programs to be invested in, and
therein lies the good funds of the International Fund for
Ireland.
And one of the concerns, of course, recently, was this
issue of using social media to gather young people quickly into
a riot situation. And so to prevent them from going to prison,
or for prosecutions at such a young age, we need to pay careful
attention to how we can prevent social media being used in this
way, and, indeed, many fake accounts that were opened to just
simply call people out onto the streets.
There is a serious issue in relation to identity and,
again, it also needs attention. And I address that issue in my
statement.
And I finally want to bring attention to some of the points
that are still outstanding. The issue of the legacy. There was
an agreement called the Stormont House Agreement, and I am
aware that my colleague, Mitchell Reiss, will pay more
attention to that.
But there is an urgent need for the U.K. Government not to
work on a unilateral basis, but to consult and to stop the
delay in addressing the needs of victims, which, I have to say,
the Women's Coalition actually put a proposal into the peace
agreement, because in any conflict situation, the needs of
victims must also be addressed.
I am involved in Operation Kenova Governance Board, and, I
have to say, it is an excellent example of how investigations
can be carried out with legitimacy and with human rights'
compliance.
There were some concerns over how policing in the community
may have reverted in recent years. I am very happy to say that
the Policing Board, that consists of both politicians and lay
members, independent lay members, is a model for policing. And
it stayed in place and its oversight was much valued during the
recent months.
And, finally, the mixed messages that have come from
particularly the U.K. Government on Brexit must stop. There are
potential positives in this for Northern Ireland, but they have
been undermined by those very mixed and occasionally very
negative messages.
Finally, the Civic Forum. Civic dialog in Northern Ireland
has proved essential to peace-building, and it is much needed.
The Civic Forum was shut down. There should in addition be
District Council Forums established. The reinsertion of the
Civic Forum, as promised in the Agreement, should now be
implemented.
So, I would ask that the continuous involvement and
interest from the U.S. Congress be maintained in the
implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, particularly in
relation to issues of the Bill of Rights and the legacy, and
also, in relation to any expertise or support that you may give
us in relation to that work with young people, and,
particularly, around how badly social media can be used.
And last, I would strongly urge the appointment of a U.S.
Envoy, who proved in the past to be absolutely crucial and key
to helping us with our peace process. Given the special
circumstances now arising from Brexit, this is a person who is
much needed in terms of maintaining the contact on social and
economic policies between Brussels, London, Dublin, Belfast and
Washington, DC.
Thank you very much for allowing me to participate in the
hearing today.
[The prepared statement of Ms. McWilliams follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Keating. Professor, thank you very much for your
comments, as a signatory and someone that will give us
perspective, generational perspective going forward.
I now turn to Ms. Morrice, and you are now recognized for
your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF JANE MORRICE, MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF GOVERNORS,
INTEGRATED EDUCATION FUND
Ms. Morrice. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Can I begin by saying thank you, America, for your
dedicated commitment to the Good Friday Agreement.
I want to start by setting out my stall. I was born in
Belfast. I was a teenager when The Troubles started. And I have
been working for peace and stability for decades, particularly
through the work of the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition.
I can say that the day of the signing of the Good Friday
Agreement was the greatest day in my professional life. The day
of the Brexit referendum was, without question, the worst. So
if you do not mind, I want to focus on that subject, because
that is my area of expertise and experience.
Since Brexit, I have become a relatively rare breed in my
country. I am a strong supporter of the European Union and I am
from a Unionist community background. And that is why I call
myself a European Unionist. Constructive ambiguity I think that
is called.
I have been opposed to Brexit since the outset, because I
firmly believe that the European Union membership enabled peace
in Northern Ireland to happen. And, of course, the role of
America was, and still is, vital. But if we are talking at the
grassroots of bringing communities together, the European Union
PEACE Program was vital to that end.
Saying that, I am actually willing to accept the Protocol
as the best of a bad Brexit deal. The problem, obviously, is
the majority of Unionists do not think likewise. But I am a
firm believer, as Monica well knows, in constructive, creative
compromise, and I am going to put four proposals to the
committee.
The first is regarding the Protocol, is to lobby for the
extension of the Protocol to Scotland. This seems to be a very
simple idea to a complex problem. It would mean most of the
customs checks would move from the Irish Sea border to the
Scottish border with England. Bringing Scotland into the
equation would put paid to the Unionist/Loyalist argument that
Northern Ireland has been cut adrift from the rest of the U.K.,
and their British identity has been diluted.
Of course, a lot will depend on the outcome of the Scottish
elections tomorrow, but this new, what I am calling Celtic
Protocol, could serve as a starting point for an association of
Scotland, Ireland, and Northern Ireland, working together in
the EU single market, customs union, similar to the Benelux
countries, which were actually the founding members of the
European Union.
My second proposal is--Monica has mentioned it--for the
reinstatement of the Civic Forum. Now, that is a commitment
under the Good Friday Agreement that we in the Women's
Coalition got in there, and it is vital that it be reinstated.
When I say that, I would appreciate Americans lobbying for
that.
The Irish Citizens' Assembly have had tremendous success
preparing for a referendum on social issues, but a political
union isn't prepared to take part in all Ireland civic
discussions; so, I think they wouldn't refuse if the Civic
Forum was doing that.
Third is the need for better engagement with the south of
Ireland, in the south of Ireland with the Unionist community in
the north. The Irish decision to keep Erasmus and the European
Health Card is a great step forward, but there needs to be more
communication on this subject. For example, the availability of
someone who wants a hip replacement. It takes 3 years' waiting
list in the north, where they can get it in 3 months in the
south, and it can be reimbursed by the British National Health
Service. People need to know about that. Student exchange also,
Erasmus north side would be a very good idea.
My final point--and this is one referring specifically to
yourselves--is for greater cooperation between the United
States and the European Union to promote reconciliation in
Northern Ireland. Now, during the peace process, you, the U.S.,
took a top-down approach, involving Presidents and the
Clintons, in an exceptional effort to bring people together.
The role of Senator George Mitchell and the Clintons and the
White House Saint Patrick's Day events are but a few examples
of U.S. diplomacy and political power at its best.
The EU approach, as I said, was bottom up, through its
multimillion-pound PEACE Program, its funds coming together at
grassroots organizations on a cross-community, and cross-border
basis. And interesting to note, they have agreed to continue
this program beyond Brexit.
So, in concluding, I want to dwell on that final point in a
little more detail. The Good Friday Agreement brought peace and
an end to sectarian violence on our streets, but genuine
reconciliation is still a very long way off. That is the area
we need to focus on. The Peace Walls, which still separate
Catholic and protestant communities, are the most visible
example of segregation at its worst.
If the EU and the U.S. would work together to set up a
specific us and you--nice name--reconciliation fund to promote
community reconciliation, and there, I would focus on something
like integrating education, because that I firmly believe--and
there are many of us who do--is an important area for young
people to rub shoulders together and learn from each other and
each other's cultures.
Integrated education is the way forward, but also mixed
housing, support for victims, shared understanding. And, of
course, one of the big roles for yourselves is investment in
what could be a peaceful, prosperous, brilliant Northern
Ireland.
So they say that it takes 30 years. If it takes 30 years to
make war, it takes the same time, 30 years, to make peace. And
if that is the case, at the 30th anniversary of the Good Friday
Agreement in 2028, Northern Ireland could really become one of
the greatest examples of rare conflict resolution in the world,
and a place where everyone wants to do business, because it
will be open to the world.
Thank you very much. I will stop there.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Morrice follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Keating. Well, thank you very much, Ms. Morrice.
And I will now turn to our final witness, Ambassador Reiss.
Thank you for your past service, and you are now recognized for
your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF HON. MITCHELL REISS, COMMISSIONER, INDEPENDENT
REPORTING COMMISSION
Mr. Reiss. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the
subcommittee, for inviting me to testify today.
Brexit and the Northern Ireland Protocol have caused great
anxiety over Northern Ireland's constitutional, political, and
economic future. For many protestants in the north, they have
also raised fundamental questions over their future status and
identity.
However, even if Northern Ireland's status after Brexit is
settled, there are three persistent challenges that will
continue to impact its future: paramilitarism, group
transition, and legacy issues.
Paramilitarism, in all its forms, is a threat to the
integrity of the Good Friday Agreement, whether your goal is a
united Ireland, or the preservation of civil societies and the
rule of law in both the north and the south. An estimated
17,000 members belong to so-called Loyalist paramilitary
organizations alone. To provide some perspective, the
equivalent number in the United States would be almost 3
million paramilitary members.
A purely law-and-order approach cannot end paramilitarism.
You cannot simply arrest your way out of this problem. This
approach must be balanced with one that addresses socioeconomic
deprivation in those communities, where the paramilitaries
operate, and exert coercive control. These communities suffer
from educational underattainment, unemployment, poverty, a lack
of investment, mental health issues and drug addiction. Data
show there is a direct correlation between paramilitarism and
this type of deprivation.
The political leaders in Northern Ireland need to own a
comprehensive approach, meaning they have to provide the
appropriate resources, closely supervise the relevant
government bodies to ensure implementation, and to be
accountable for its success.
A second related issue is how to engage with those
paramilitaries that want to transition to a different
nonviolent form. There currently is no formal process that
allows key stakeholders to have a seat at the table and ensure
that their voices are heard. In the past, London has been more
focused on other issues and political and community leaders in
Northern Ireland have been reluctant to engage with alleged
criminals and convicted felons, for fear of public criticism
and the political risks involved.
Such a process is urgently needed, because the
paramilitaries will not disappear on their own. They are not
capable of self-transition. Further, time is not on our side.
The situation is likely to get worse before it gets better. And
group transition is closely intertwined with the U.K.'s efforts
to address and resolve a related issue: the legacy cases
deriving from The Troubles.
As Professor McWilliams mentioned earlier, the Stormont
House Agreement in December 2014 established certain principles
and structures to deal with the legacy of the past. This legacy
process involves three elements: The first is an oral history
archive, which serves as a repository of the experiences from
The Troubles; second is an Historical Investigations Unit,
which investigates Troubles-related deaths, and may refer cases
for criminal prosecution; and third, the Independent Commission
on Information Retrieval, which enables victims and other
survivors to confidentially receive information the Independent
Commission has acquired about The Troubles-related deaths of
their relatives.
Any information acquired by the Independent Commission will
not be disclosed to law enforcement or intelligence agencies,
and will be inadmissible in criminal and civil proceedings.
There currently is no consensus in Northern Ireland among
the political parties, or the more than four dozen victims
groups as to how these legacy bodies should function. One
reason is because it is unclear whether information about past
criminality, provided to the Historical Investigations Unit,
will take precedence over information provided to the
Independent Commission with respect to possible criminal
prosecutions. This resulting uncertainty deters paramilitary
members from engaging with any of the legacy bodies or
participating in any type of transition process, for fear of
criminally implicating themselves.
Finally, I want to endorse the appointment of a Special
Envoy for Northern Ireland. I believe, like my two fellow
testimoneys today, I believe the United States can once more
play a crucial role in helping the people in the north. The
United States brings a long track record of proven diplomatic
success, and has the ability to help the political parties, and
leaders in London and Dublin, with the challenges that I have
mentioned above.
Once again, thank you for inviting me to testify today and
for your time. I would welcome any questions you might have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Reiss follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Ambassador.
I thank all of our witnesses for their testimony.
I will now recognize members for 5 minutes each, pursuant
to House rules. All time yielded is for the purposes of
questioning our witnesses. Because of the virtual format of
this hearing, I will recognize members by committee seniority,
alternating between Democrats and Republicans. If you miss your
turn, please let our staff know. We will circle back to you. If
you seek recognition, you must unmute your microphone and
address the chair verbally.
I will start by recognizing myself for 5 minutes.
I want to thank our witnesses, and, if you could, I think
Ms. Morrice has already touched on specifics as the Ambassador,
too, as well as, to an extent, Professor McWilliams. But can
you talk to the American public now, and tell them how
important U.S. involvement is in these negotiations, and
specifically, how, besides the suggestions in your opening
statements, U.S. involvement can be crucial, not just in
dealing with the most recent overflow of Brexit issues, but,
also, in the longstanding commitment that is not quite yet met.
So if you could, I will let anyone jump in if they want to,
but is your chance to talk to the American public as well.
Ms. McWilliams. Thank you, Chair.
I will briefly just address that, in that it has been my
own experience of having Senator Mitchell involved in our peace
negotiations, but, also, going to the United States over those
years on a regular basis, and speaking to Congress Members. It
was incredible how much that was valued back home, but it was
also incredible that each time we started putting forward
proposals, we asked, How could the U.S. help us with this? Who
should we talk to in the U.S. in relation to this? And that
paid off.
And for that reason, both the Irish Government and the U.K.
Government and the Northern Ireland Government all look to the
U.S. as friends, as good friends, that have helped them to
build stability along the way.
And in relation to the EU-U.K. Trade and Cooperation
Agreement, I think this is crucial in that the U.S. Government
should make it clear that it expects to see the adherence to
these standards, in terms of labor rights and social
protections and environmental standards.
We have come a long way, and I, myself, know that, as a
woman who did not have any of those rights until the European
Union came in, in relation to sex discrimination, equal pay,
and many other rights. We would not have got those had the
European Directives not pushed the U.K. Government in that
direction and, hence, the flow over to Northern Ireland.
The same applies now. We cannot afford to cut back on the
rights that are in place. We need to maintain them and sustain
them. But, likewise, there is a concern that without the
oversight from the U.S. that that could potentially happen, and
that, certainly, would be a step backward.
And the other point that I think is really important, and I
made it, was that if there were to be a U.S. Envoy, then there
would be a contact, a regular contact in relation to this
concern about whether or not this Protocol is positive or not,
because it seems to be a tennis match going on between the two
governments. And we cannot afford that, lobbing the ball back
and forwards. That is feeding into the negativity in the
community, and these young Loyalists who are taking to the
streets, believing there is nothing in it for them.
And, so, it is that third-party person with gravitas, with
integrity, with honesty, who has acted in that role in the
past; when that voice speaks up, people listen.
When I think on the European, positive messages at the
moment that are turned into such negative ones; and to show
that if there are technical problems, they can be fixed. And
that these are not big political constitutional issues that
they have been turned in to be. And that those negotiations
with the EU, where there needs to be more slack, where it does
not have to be so problematic, I think that is also where you
bring the experience from the U.S. in terms of your trade
negotiations. And that would be much valued. Thank you.
Mr. Keating. We have a little over a minute of my time
left. Does anyone else want to suggest--Ms. Morrice.
Ms. Morrice. May I come in quickly? Because I think what
is--to talk to the American people, I think it is very
important. Irish America is well-known, but do not forget your
Ulster-Scots roots.
President Clinton said it himself: Of the 40 million Irish-
Americans, half are Protestant stock. The Ulster-Scots, I
understand that there are more than a dozen American Presidents
were Ulster-Scots.
And, so, there is a brilliant musical called On Eagle's
Wing, which could be bigger than River Dance, promoting the
Ulster-Scots legacy, and really lifting, lifting up that
culture, and putting it on the same level, so making Irish
America Ulster-Scots America as well.
Mr. Keating. Thank you.
Mr. Reiss. Mr. Chairman do I have time for a moment?
Mr. Keating. Briefly, yes.
Mr. Reiss. Very briefly.
So the United States is the most optimistic country in the
world. We are positive. We are forward-looking. I think that
sense of optimism is needed in many places, and certainly in
Northern Ireland. And I think that is the role that the United
States has played in the past, where we do bring a sense of
possibility to the conversations.
The U.K. and Ireland are our friends and allies. It is
possible to say things to them in private that they need to
hear, and still have credibility.
So I think it is the public ability to be positive and
encouraging, the private ability to tell important messages to
the two capitals. And I think also, Irish America, many, many
individuals have played important roles as private citizens,
and I think all of those can be energized and organized by a
Special Envoy. And that is why I endorse the Biden
Administration's appointing one.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Ambassador. Thank our witnesses.
Now I would like to call on Representative Pfluger for 5
minutes of questioning. Representative Pfluger.
Mr. Pfluger. Yes. Can you hear me? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, yes, I can.
Mr. Pfluger. And I appreciate the opportunity on this
hearing. Thank you for the leadership.
To all the witnesses on the panel, thank you for your
commentary and this important discussion.
I wanted to ask, Ambassador Reiss, you mentioned in the
written testimony that an all-of-government approach to address
the paramilitarism issue in Northern Ireland must incorporate
not only a law-and-order strand, but also a socioeconomic piece
to it.
And I was wondering if you could elaborate on the latter,
and then maybe address how the United States can help address
the socioeconomic drivers of the paramilitarism activity and
what we can do.
Mr. Reiss. Yes. Thank you for your question. I would also
like to invite my colleague, Professor McWilliams, to jump in
on this.
There are multiple reasons why these communities are
failing, and I mentioned some of them: educational
underattainment, lack of jobs, an opportunity to make easy
money selling drugs, mental health issues. These are areas
where Protestant paramilitaries, in many cases, most cases,
these are criminal gangs that are just preying on vulnerable
families and young people.
The British Government needs to do a better job of
comprehensively addressing this issue, in my view, and
assigning somebody who wakes up every morning, and that is the
first thing they think about, and holds people accountable.
Many, many people are doing good work in the government and
in the communities, but there has not really been that all-of-
government effort that I think is necessary. And it also has to
be sustained. We know in our inner cities poverty, economic
deprivation, educational underattainment, these are really
hard, almost passed down intergenerational problems.
And so, again, I think that there may be some lessons from
the United States that we can offer. There are other lessons
from other parts of the U.K. Scotland and also Limerick in
Ireland has done a very good job addressing this.
So, it is not an easy solution, and it has to go hand in
hand with getting the criminals off the street and prosecuting
them, and convicting them and then sentencing them for
reasonable amounts of time. And this has also been a focus,
that the sentencing guidelines really need to be looked at,
because I think to most Americans, they would seem very, very
lenient.
But I defer to my fellow Commissioner. Professor?
Ms. McWilliams. I agree. Mitchell has covered most of it.
It does need a multiagency and multidisciplinary approach. And
as you know, and anyone who has ever worked with government
knows that they prefer to work in their own silos at times,
tackling the problem from their point of view. And, so, health
does not talk to the economic people or the folk that are
dealing with education, and the folk that are dealing with
justice.
And that is where our Commission comes in and recommending
what we call a whole-of-government approach, which is really an
integrated approach. And I think that the International Fund
for Ireland is a very good example. Though it is not dealing
with investment, it is dealing with the disadvantaged areas.
And where you feel, as is the case with other conflicts
that I work in around the world, where people feel they have
been left behind, they do not have aspirations, that they are
politically homeless, then they take to the streets, because
they have nothing to lose. We need to give them some sense that
they have a lot to lose, but I do not want it just to be about
prisons and police, that they are losing the possibility of
getting a good job, of being well-trained, well-educated. And
the point that I make in my statement is we cannot leave this
to the police to do this alone.
Mr. Pfluger. That is right.
Ms. McWilliams. They will not succeed. And we cannot lock
up potentially 17,000, which is the number that we have been
given of paramilitaries. And this is not a prison problem,
though for public interest those criminals and gangsters and
coercive controllers, as I call them, should be locked up. But
there are plenty of decent good people who want a stake in
their future, and that is where the United States comes in, as
it has done over the past three decades.
Mr. Pfluger. Well, ma'am, thank you very much. And I
appreciate both of you.
And quickly, I do have one more question: In the post-
Brexit world, and for anybody that wants to add to this with my
remaining 30 seconds, how can the United States help encourage
the U.K. and the EU writ large, to prioritize easing those
trade tensions that have resulted, you know, from the post-
Brexit arrangements?
Ms. Morrice. Do you want me to start? Well, first of all,
they are working on trying to make, obviously, the arrangements
much more flexible on the Protocol, and encouraging the EU to
be exactly the same, more flexible on the Protocol, to let
goods through and flow more easily. However, if Scotland was in
the Protocol, those goods would be going through Scotland, and
there would be far, far fewer checks on the borders.
But the second thing I think is not just to focus on trade.
I think the EU and U.S. should get together on all these other
issues as well. And I want to reiterate exactly what both have
said about economic and socioeconomic issues. The disadvantaged
areas need investment, need support. And working together, the
United States and the EU could help do that. Thank you.
Mr. Pfluger. Well, it looks as though I am out of time. I
appreciate, again, the witnesses' answers on these important
subjects.
Mr. Chairman, with that, I yield.
Mr. Keating. Thank you very much, Representative.
The chair now recognizes the chairman of the Middle East
Subcommittee, Chairman Deutch, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Deutch. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for this
important hearing.
Until the formation of the Northern Ireland Women's
Coalition in 1996, women were nearly absent from politics in
the region. And in conflicts around the world today, we are
still seeing underrepresentation of women in conflict
prevention and resolution. Discriminatory power structures
continue to inhibit women's full participation in peace-
building processes and the full implementation of the Women,
Peace and Security agenda.
Given all of that, Professor McWilliams, let me start with
you. Why was the inclusion of women in the Good Friday
Agreement negotiations critical to its success? And what role
do women play in conflict negotiations in Northern Ireland and
Europe overall?
Ms. McWilliams. Thank you for that question. And I am
delighted that we have got today the U.N. Security Council
Resolution on Women, Peace and Security. It came in in the year
2000. We existed in the 4 years prior to that, so we did not
have it to back us up. So we had to fight our own way to the
table.
And we had been around for 25 years before that, despite
some of the leaders of the other political party saying, Did
these women fall out of the sky? Of course, we did not. We got
to the table by getting elected, which showed you the appetite
for the civic society people to get women to the table.
We were a small party, but we had equal speaking rights and
equal input. Had we not been at that table, there would have
been no provisions on integrated education or shared housing,
or the Civic Forum, and on resources for young people and
community development. That is what sustains peace. That is
what women do.
When women get to the table, they pay attention to the
issue of inclusion. They ask, whose voices are not here? Who
should we be talking to? Where are the gaps? And then we read
these agreements and we say, does that sustain peace, by simply
letting people out of prison? By reforming police and criminal
justice, exceptionally important. By good governance
arrangements and sharing power, incredibly important.
Constitutional arrangements, No. 1, exceptionally important.
But sustaining peace? That takes hard work. As hard as the
day I signed the agreement at the table, it has taken me
another two decades to continue, along with all my other
colleagues, to make it work. What helped us sustain peace? It
was about those young people. It was about the questions you
have just asked me in relation to economic and social
investment. You do not often see those in peace agreements.
And that, I think if I had to go back to the table, and
hindsight, is a great person to have at the table. I would have
worked much harder to ensure that those proposals would have
been there. But nonetheless, we have now got an opportunity to
do that. And that is what women do.
And I am only involved now with women around the world, in
Colombia and Middle East, and in lots and lots of very tough
conflict situations. And I want to give a shout-out for the
leadership that I have seen that women play, at risk to their
own lives. And we have a program called Women and Communities
in Transition in Northern Ireland, and they are standing up to
the paramilitaries. They are saying, if you want to call me an
informer, go right ahead, but I am going to work with the
police in arresting these gangsters. They are not going to
control my life. We know what it is like when we are controlled
by men who abuse us in our own private lives, and they are not
going to get away with it in their public lives.
So it is a combination of that learning and that thinking
that women bring to the table. And sometimes they are not
there, and as a result, we lose out on sustainable peace.
Mr. Deutch. I appreciate that. I am going to join you in
that shout-out to the courage and the insight and the wisdom
and the passion brought to the table. I appreciate that very
much.
Ms. Morrice, the same question to you. And then also just
to expand this, we worked to implement the strategy on women,
peace, and security around the world. What lessons can we learn
here?
Ms. Morrice. Thank you very, very much for bringing that to
me, because, first of all, which is in my notes there, I am a
member of the Women in International Security, the Brussels
branch of that, on the Advisory Committee. And they are doing
very, very valuable work, obviously bringing together the top
brass women--all too few still--together, and talking about
these issues.
And certainly, we are trying to look much, much more into,
instead of defense and security, also peace-building and
conflict resolution, the longer-term approach. And that is
exactly what Monica has said. You know, there are so many
different aspects to this that are not looked at properly by
NATO. You know, all this money that goes into defense and
security, where is the sort of proportion that is the
equivalent for peace-building? You know, that is so lacking.
I will give you a quick example. I was in Afghanistan. I
was with a DUP member and a Sinn Fein member, and we were
talking to rural leaders, if you like. And I tried talking
about the role of women in conflict resolution, and I couldn't
get any sort of reaction at all.
So at the break, I asked--it was Jeffrey Donaldson actually
from the DUP who was with me as well. And I said to him, Look,
this is impossible. Will you do my bit and I will do your bit?
And he said, Yes. So we went back in, and he talked about the
role of women in the peace negotiations. And really, the
dynamic changed in the room. They listened to him. And I talked
about decommissioning of paramilitary, et cetera.
And do you see that important point I am making? Men need
to start pushing this agenda, and that is where it is going to
help get somewhere. Thank you.
Mr. Deutch. Mr. Chairman, again, I want to thank you for
holding this hearing, and thank the witnesses. Truly, truly
appreciate your participation in it. Thanks.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Chairman. And I thank the
witnesses. Those are very insightful responses.
The chair now recognizes for 5 minutes a member who has
great personal experience in all issues Europe. Representative
Wagner for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Wagner. I thank the chairman.
And I associate myself very strongly with the words that
Ms. Morrice and Ms. McWilliams have just expressed. And I am
grateful that we are having this hearing. I thank our
witnesses, truly, for your tireless work to promote peace in
Northern Ireland.
I think Congress has been honored to have played a role in
this peace process, and I believe this body can continue to
serve as a force for prosperity and dialog and mutual
understanding.
Ms. McWilliams, what do you believe were the driving
factors behind the uptick of violent rioting in Northern
Ireland this past March and April? And how concerned are you
that violence will flare up again, as frustration continues to
rise over Brexit implementation and some of the pandemic
response efforts?
Ms. McWilliams. Well, there was a range of reasons. It was
not just one reason. And one I have already mentioned was the
people--those in particular Lovyalist communities feeling
threatened by their identity. And obviously that sense oif loss
has been pushed politically by a number of the issues which
have turned out to be technical issues and not political,
though they are read as political.
And I do want to emphasize this point, that political
leaders need to calm things down at these times, instead of,
perhaps, as on some occasions where they were seen as standing
back. And, so, those that did speak out--those voices needed to
be heard.
Young people need to engage with their peers, and their
youth workers came in and played a huge role engaging, walking
the streets at night. And they had a great phone system and
communication system to break down the rumors and the lies, and
working closely with the police. Communication was key.
In other areas, we have discovered that it was--that some
of the paramilitary leaders were encouraging the young people
out, and where others were calling out standards of--double
policing.
Mrs. Wagner. And let me----
Ms. McWilliams. They felt the standards of policing were
coming down on them.
Mrs. Wagner. And let me followup on that.
Ambassador Reiss, you sit on that Independent Reporting
Commission, which is tasked with bringing an end to the
paramilitary activity and tackling organized crime in Northern
Ireland. How do you assess the threat posed by the paramilitary
groups to peace in Northern Ireland, and what more needs to be
done to end the paramilitary activity?
Mr. Reiss. Well, I think it is a persistent threat that I
believe will outlast any settlement of Brexit. It waxes and
wanes, depending on what is happening politically.
I think, on the loyalist paramilitary side, they are
disconnected with any political representation, meaningful
representation, unlike the Republican side.
And I think, also, there is just a general contextual issue
that Protestants, generally, are fearful that they may be
losing the future. And Brexit is a harbinger of that. There is
concerns over whether they are being let go and the inattention
by London. And, so, there is a general sense that maybe they do
not own the future, that the future belongs to another
sectarian group.
This is an amorphous feeling--it is hard to quantify, but I
think that that it is real for a lot of these folks. And so,
again, there needs to be a lot of things that are done. You
have to get the criminal element off the street. You just
cannot----
Mrs. Wagner. Yes.
Mr. Reiss [continuing]. Really do much else_without that
first step. And there is a smaller--much smaller, in the 17,000
number, maybe 1,000 core members. These aren't paramilitaries.
These are criminal groups. They engage in really--you know,
child abuse, when they are going after young people with
paramilitary style attacks, which is a euphemism.
So, there is a lot that needs to be done on the law-and-
order side certainly; but, unless you also follow very closely
with economic investment, educational issues, all the
integrated approach that Monica just mentioned----
Mrs. Wagner. Uh-huh.
Mr. Reiss [continuing]. Somebody else will fill that vacuum
with the criminal leaders. And it is difficult. I mean, it is--
look, we do not solve those problems immediately in the United
States either.
Ms. McWilliams. Could I add----
Mrs. Wagner. But I would just--go ahead. Go ahead.
Ms. McWilliams. Could I add a note of caution here?
And obviously CNN and the world media pay attention when
petrol bombs are being thrown at buses. What we needed to look
at and what the U.S. is good at looking at are the hotspots
where more of resilience took place.
There were lots and lots of areas where riots could have
broken out and did not break out because the community
investment had been there. The work with the police had been
there. The youth workers knew exactly who to talk to on the
other side. The sports teams came out and maintained their
contact.
That needs to go on from now on, because we could be
looking at a very hot summer with bonfires----
Mrs. Wagner. Uh-huh.
Ms. McWilliams [continuing]. With unauthorized parades, and
our usual summers where everyone else gets, like you do, to
look forward to your summer, we start to dread ours at times
like this.
But the positive note needs to be emphasized that there has
been a lot of good work invested and, as Mitchell says, that
there has been a paramilitary control that has gone on for too
long.
But there are also those who went to prison, who are now
known as ex-prisoners, and others who have walked away from all
this, and are acting in a role of civic leadership. So we need
to continue to talk to them, to talk to young people, and say
to them, Don't do what we did. The future is not good, and----
Ms. Morrice. Could I----
Ms. McWilliams [continuing]. That is the root of what is
happening.
Ms. Morrice. Could I come in?
Mr. Keating. Go right ahead, briefly.
Mrs. Wagner. Please, Ms. Morrice.
Ms. Morrice. Just a very quick one again. In the area that
I live, Down Bangor, writ large, there have been posters that
have been put up on every--on every street corner and
roundabout, which shows pictures--and I think I sent it to you
in my notes--of the EU--of Mr. Sefcovic, the--Biden, Boris
Johnson, and Michael Martin, and these faces, and underneath is
written: Nobody is listening to us. Which one do I pick?
You know, this--I mean, this is them shouting, saying, you
know, somebody listen, please. And really, Monica said it. We
need to--we need to find ways that their voices can be heard.
Now, of course, in our days, you know, the wonderful David
Ervines of the day, who spoke so importantly about--for his
people, if you like, you know, there obviously--you know, there
are elected representatives. There is the Billy Hutchinsons.
There is people like that, but how do we get to reach out to
them? The Irish President spoke on the radio recently about the
need to reach out, you know, and I think there could be a lot
more being done by America to that end.
Mrs. Wagner. Great. Well, thank you. My time has well
expired. I appreciate the----
Mr. Keating. Yes.
Mrs. Wagner [continuing]. Chairman's indulgence, and I
yield back. Thank you. Thank you all.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative.
The chair now recognizes committee member, but also the
chair of the Transatlantic Legislators' Dialogue,
Representative Jim Costa, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Costa. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I have
enjoyed the perspective that our three witnesses have provided.
We have talked about the role of the United States, and I
would like to drill down on that. But, to the last speaker, as
the chair of the Transatlantic Legislators' Dialogue, we have a
lot of dialog, as you might expect, with the members of the
European Parliament. And, given where we are today, post
Brexit, I would like better insight on where you think the
European Union, and the Parliament and the Commission will play
in terms of the changes taking place, and where would you like
to see a greater focus on the part of our colleagues with the
European Parliament and the Commission?
Ms. Morrice. Shall I?
Mr. Costa. Go ahead, Jane.
Ms. Morrice. Yes, thank you. Thank you very, very much for
that question, because that is exactly the direction I think
the United States should be looking. And, specifically, the
Parliament, the Commission, and the Council of Ministers. The
Parliament, now their foreign affairs committee--and, by the
way, I have sent this--the link to this to Michel Barnier, to
Mr. Sefcovic, so that they can see that America is actually
talking about these things.
And I am very, very sorry that Europe, the European Union,
isn't doing something similar to what you are doing. I am not
aware of this being done in Brussels.
So that is the first point. You know, if they could start--
they are doing great things, but few people know about it. So a
hearing like this----
Mr. Costa. What should be their role?
Ms. Morrice. They should work--you and they should work
together to promote reconciliation in Northern Ireland. You
should be--first of all, having to fund things like integrated
education and mixed housing and victim support.
And, second, opening up business in America and Europe for
investment, because, do not forget, in trading arrangements, we
are going to have--Northern Ireland, as a relative of the
Protocol, is open to both markets. So isn't that the best
place----
Mr. Costa. Does not the EU law also provide supporting a
framework for guaranteeing human rights, equality, and
nondiscrimination provisions of the Peace Accord? And
obviously, there are a whole lot of issues embodied in that,
from security checkpoints to the other elements of the single
market, the custom union, the 300-mile border that has
effectively disappeared.
How are things at the border these days, would you
describe?
Ms. Morrice. Well, certainly, the border in Ireland has
been nonexistent, except for the ping on your mobile phone when
you go across, and it is still the same. And that is hopefully
the way it will be in that sanctioned Good Friday Agreement.
And I do not know whether, Monica, if you want to come in
on sort of the justice issues with the----
Ms. McWilliams. Yes. Yes. The free movement across the
border would be impossible if there was not, because people
live in the border towns, and they work on the other side.
And it was the EU, let us not forget, that was the single
European market that opened up the border in my day. We used to
be stopped at the border for hours and searched, and then, of
course, the Army came in and had its Army towers, and you
certainly knew when you were crossing the border. You would
hardly know that today, and that was a result of both the peace
agreement, and continued as a result of the European Single
market.
But, in relation to the justice issues, people are confused
here. We will remain as part of the Council of Europe, and, of
course, the Council of Europe is where the European Convention
on Human Rights comes into play.
But the concern is--and I mentioned it--that the U.K.
Government is now reviewing that act, that was part of the Good
Friday Agreement, which is the Human Rights Act, which we
proposed should be incorporated into domestic law. And it was,
and came into effect in the year 2000.
That is the very piece of legislation that is now being
reviewed at Westminster, because there are those who do not
want those convention rights. They see Europe as having too
many rights and regulations that does not allow its own
government to have freedom, and it has a great belief on this
issue of sovereignty, and therefore, it should be able to
decide by itself what rights to include.
Now, that would be a step back. That would be reverting on
what was agreed, and so, that is the concern about the review
of the Human Rights Act at Westminster, and the absence of a
Bill of Rights in Northern Ireland, which would have
incorporated the right to be British, Irish, or both. It is
more of an aspiration, when it should have been a guarantee
from the Good Friday Agreement, but it has never been
incorporated into law. And that is what should be clarified in
a Bill of Rights.
And, so, it is those extra rights that weren't in the
European convention that was--that are in the peace agreement
that have been left hanging out there, and have never been
legislated on. So that is why----
Ms. Morrice. Can I speak on that?
Ms. McWilliams [continuing]. It has become such a concern.
Ms. Morrice. This is probably one of the most important
things that has been overlooked and I would like to stress, and
your help would be great in this.
Thanks to the Good Friday Agreement, we are, as Monica
says, British, Irish, or both, which means every single citizen
in Europe and Northern Ireland is entitled to be a European
citizen. They do not have to be Irish. They can be British
European as well.
So we have all the rights already, and we will always keep
the rights that every European citizen has. And that is
something that isn't talked about nearly enough, because it is
such a huge advantage for us here.
Mr. Costa. So, my time has expired, but, Chairman Keating,
this is probably something that, in our future conversations
with our colleagues and the European Parliament, we ought to
put on as a--an agenda item in terms of their foreign policy
committee and get their take on what their future participation
is going to be on this important issue.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative. Thank you for your
leadership on the Dialogue. Also, I agree with you. If you
could schedule that on, I think, given the comments of the need
for economic opportunity, cooperation, and resources, those
kind of joint efforts would be important. So thank you for that
suggestion. It would be great if you follow on up and did that.
Mr. Costa. Thank you.
Mr. Keating. Appreciate your work and your questions.
The chair now recognizes Representative Brad Schneider for
5 minutes.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you, Chairman Keating, and I want to
thank our witnesses for spending your time with us today and
sharing your thoughts and perspectives.
One of the things that struck me in reading the testimony,
then hearing the talk today, is, you know, the uncertainty, the
anxiety about the future. Someone talked about owning the
future. I guess--and maybe I will start with Ms. Morrice.
What does it mean, looking to the future, trying to find an
inclusive future, how do we best do it? And what role might the
United States play to best facilitate that?
Ms. Morrice. That is definitely the million-dollar
question, I think, you are going to struggle with the future.
Exactly. This is--this is the issue of the constitutional
status of Northern Ireland in the future, is the biggest
question that we face here.
And, actually, while--while obviously the talk is about,
you know, what--when there will be a referendum on a united
Ireland, and that is what is helping to increase concerns among
the unionist, loyalist community of increasing talk about this,
the fact that--of a referendum even, and the fact that Brexit
has made that debate much more open.
I think, where I come from on this, is seriously to put it
into a new context, and I think Scotland holds the key to this,
because, tomorrow, we are going to hear whether or not an
overwhelming majority of people of Scotland want independence,
and vote for the independent party there.
So, then, they will eventually get an independent
referendum. And what happens when or if Scotland leaves? And,
obviously, Scotland wants to join the European Union.
So think of Ireland in that context. Think much, much
longer term, because whatever happens, Scotland--it is going to
happen in Scotland first. And, so, if we see a Scotland
leaving, that takes it out of the whole context of the binary
choice, Ireland, United Ireland, chair of Ireland, et cetera,
and think about Scotland, Ireland, and Northern Ireland coming
together in a customs union and a single market.
You know, is that not a much healthier approach to
everything? It can bring in orange and green. It can bring in
our culture, our traditions. And it changes the whole
narrative. And I would love if that sort of conversation was
much, much more vocal in our media. Let's get a new narrative.
Thank you. Hope that helps.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you. And, maybe, I will turn next to
Ambassador Reiss and your thoughts on the same question.
Mr. Reiss. The question being what can United States do to
help with the future of Northern Ireland?
Mr. Schneider. To give a faith in the future. I mean, you
know, as I was listening, you were saying, you know, belief in
the future, resistance to criminality. You know, if those are
the choices, I want people looking to the future with, as you
mentioned earlier, an optimism that the future holds bright
prospects for them.
Mr. Reiss. Well, I think that the United States showing
that it cares about Northern Ireland, is invested in its
future, perhaps personified by a special envoy chosen by the
President, I think all of that reassures people about the
future. They have confidence still in the United States.
Obviously, 40 million-plus Irish Americans, all the
personal, traditional cultural ties, economic ties, are
absolutely essential. So, I think it just provides a little bit
of a safety net that people fear that they won't be let loose,
that the United States will do the right thing, will make sure
that it listens carefully to what people want, and can be an
advocate not just in Belfast, but also in Dublin and London.
So I think that the United States, being visibly involved
at this point, is something that is very important.
And I have to confess, after I left the position in 2007, I
really thought that it was not needed. I thought that the
political future could be charted solely by the leadership in
Northern Ireland.
I was wrong. I think that, today, that there is a real need
for the United States to bring its optimism, but also some
ideas about how we can deal with some of the persistent
challenges of the north. And I think that would be welcomed,
not just in the north, but also by Dublin and by London.
Mr. Schneider. Great. Thank you. And I apologize. I am out
of time. Professor McWilliams, what I was going to ask you is
what we could do to reinforce those anchors of resiliency or
those--I think you said hotspots of resilience.
Ms. McWilliams. Yes. Well----
Mr. Keating. Go ahead. You know, we have been pretty
liberal.
Ms. McWilliams. It has been a good record so far in terms
of the International Fund for Ireland as shown in its published
reports, and the Ireland Funds that also come from the U.S.
They have invested in youth leadership and in peace leadership
and peace builders. And that needs to continue, because the
programs are often from year to year, and as soon as they start
showing some success, they are stood down.
So it is really important to look at this in the longer-
term basis, and sustaining those good projects. So the
resilience is building in. That is always very important in
terms of peace-building.
And civic society must be included in that dialog, because
it does know much better sometimes than the politicians. They
used to say in Northern Ireland, the people were ahead of the
politicians on that one. They might say that sometimes in the
United States. I do not know.
Mr. Schneider. I was going to say that might be a shared
principle----
Ms. McWilliams. Yes.
Mr. Schneider [continuing]. Probably across the world.
Ms. McWilliams. Yes, yes. And I would think, on this issue
of identity, you struggle with it too in the United States. We
are not alone in that. German American, Cuban American, Irish
American--Jane has added Ulster-Scots American--and there are
multiple identities. And not just the binaries.
As you may know, in the Women's Coalition, we were very
inclusive in relation to our identities. Some of the women were
fed up and no longer wanted to identify with those binaries.
And, so, there is the point. Should we be having more of
the discussion involving the United States and Americans? Those
who have struggled with this issue are good at this discussion
in relation to cultural identity.
The British identity of those who hold it dearly in
Northern Ireland somehow now feel really threatened, either
because of the potential referendum, or because of the--what
they are referring to as a border on the Irish Sea,--so it is
not just a focus on the economic question, even if I wish it
was. It is a question of identity, how they see their future
identity.
Mr. Schneider. Sure.
Ms. McWilliams. And that is why I think, if the U.S. have
got people who are working on this very closely--and I have
lived in the U.S. myself. I am a graduate of the University of
Michigan--where I saw how identity issues were played out, as
you are seeing too recently on your streets in relation to that
very issue, about identity and your future identity and your
stake in the community.
And during President Clinton's time, the President held a
huge conference on economic investment. It might be useful to
even think about holding a conference on this issue of cultural
identity. And----
Mr. Schneider. It is a great point.
Ms. McWilliams [continuing]. Bring those individuals
through Northern Ireland.
Mr. Schneider. Well, thank you, Professor.
And, again, thanks to everyone for your very thoughtful
response, and, Chairman, thank you for the extra time. I yield
back.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative.
The chair now recognizes for 5 minutes the vice chair of
our committee, Representative Spanberger.
Ms. Spanberger. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and
thank you to our guests who are here today. I really appreciate
you joining our subcommittee and bringing just your exceptional
experience to inform this conversation.
And I do also just want to express my appreciation to Chair
Keating and all of our witnesses today who have been framing
this conversation that peace is not just something you reach,
and then becomes a permanent State. It is something that
requires continual focus, and it needs to be affirmed and
reaffirmed.
And, so, I think, in this effort, it is incredibly
important for the United States to be supportive and engaged,
and, so, I am grateful for you spending time with us today.
Ms. Morrice, I do want to note that in your opening
statement, when you spoke about a Celtic Union, much like the
Benelux countries, I felt that was a very interesting comment
to make. I had previously lived in one of the Benelux
countries, and I think it is a pretty straightforward
comparison that may be more broadly understood in terms of what
it is that you have been speaking of.
And you also spoke, Ms. Morrice, about student exchanges
and the Erasmus Program, and, so, I have a variety of things I
wish to talk about, but that one struck me as really a
personal, community-focused, person-to-person way of creating
and affirming peace.
And so, Ms. Morrice, I was wondering if you could just
speak a little bit more to your suggestion in that space of
student exchanges for those who may be watching this hearing,
and for my other colleagues participating.
Ms. Morrice. Thank you very much. I certainly will.
First of all, to note that the incredibly important move by
the Irish Government to keep Erasmus operational in Northern
Ireland, and to fund it from that point of view while it has
been taken away, being replaced by a different system, a curing
system in the rest of the U.K., that is the No. 1 excellent,
excellent opportunity.
Now, that means that--and, by the way, I was an Erasmus
student in 1976 in France, but it was not Erasmus in the day.
It was EU funded. And my--30 years later, my son was the same
in France as well. So, it is this hugely valuable--one of the
best tools the European Union has, in fact, to promote
interchange, cultural interchange.
So normally, it means students going and living either
anywhere in the European Union for a year, or even they can go
abroad, America, Japan. People have done it. So that is a vital
way of discovering a new culture, a new country.
But my suggestion here--and thank you for bringing it up--
is that actually Ireland operates, if you like, a mini internal
Erasmus, and starts offering places for northern students down
south for a year, and southern students up north for a year.
And, you know--and, I mean, maybe there will be some Erasmus
students who say, No, I want to go to the south of France or
somewhere.
But, honestly, if you think--if you think in terms of the
island, that would be a very, very healthy way of people--of
the getting to know you better, which is vital in the north-
south siege, I believe.
By the way, I would also--before I left Brussels, I was a
member of the European Economic and Social Committee, which is
the civic form of Europe. And, in that, I suggested the
European Parliament propose free transport for pensioners
throughout Europe.
There are certain countries--certain countries, like
Luxembourg, already do free transport for pensioners, but to
have that Europe-wide, wouldn't that be an exceptional way of
bringing--of letting older folk, who desperately need minds
opened--you know, not all, of course--but, you know, what a
wonderful way of getting exchange if you had free transport.
And I think that would include Northern Ireland, too.
So they are a bit of ideas, but I love getting the
opportunity to put them out there. Thank you very much.
Ms. Spanberger. Thank you very much.
I find this so fascinating, because, particularly with
students in student exchange, it provides such an opportunity
to uncover and understand that sometimes, the differences that
might create tensions are, in fact, not nearly as profound as
we may have thought.
And so, to continue on my next question, I will direct it
again toward you, Ms. Morrice, or toward Professor McWilliams.
Focus on engaging underrepresented communities. I know this was
really central to the work that you all did with the Northern
Ireland Women's Coalition. And so I am curious, can you discuss
a little bit the importance of this type of engagement for
maintaining and strengthening peace? And how do these efforts,
in your view and experience, prevent violence? And, also,
simultaneously strengthen democratic institutions?
Ms. Morrice. Do you want to start, or shall I, Monica?
Ms. McWilliams. Go ahead, Jane.
Ms. Morrice. Well, first of all, by the way, something I
left out in my original answer to your question was Cooperation
Ireland is doing a lot of work in that, and I always like to
give a bit of a shout-out to certain people or things who are
doing good work in this area. So that is a very valuable one.
Now, the question you are saying is underrepresented
communities. Well, I suppose--I suppose I will talk about
women, because that is the one I certainly--we certainly have
experience of. And, you know, I do--I am a firm believer, if we
have got 50-50, where it should be, in all levels of
decisionmaking, and the public and private sector, you know,
that does get balanced. It is so simple to recognize, and I
cannot see why it isn't understood.
Now, positive discrimination might be a step too far, but
even things like gender pay, that pay balance.
And, by the way, here is going to be a very important one
in this that I do not think anybody has been properly looking
at. There is a huge gender pay gap, right, and you are talking
20 percent Europe-wide.
Ms. Spanberger. Uh-huh.
Ms. Morrice. And you are--but, now, if there is a gender
pay gap right now, what is the female pensioner pay gap going
to be like?
Now, that is going to feed into pensions, which is going to
make pensioners far, far worse off in the future than their
male counterparts. And that is something I think needs to--now,
excuse me. I have to declare an interest in that area.
But there you are. There is my--it probably was not the
ones you were initially thinking of in Northern Ireland----
Ms. McWilliams. Could I respond by saying that we do have
very strong legislation in relation to fair employment, and the
Good Friday Agreement introduced a particular piece into the
legislation, known as section 75, which pays attention to the
issue of underrepresentation.
There is some controversy over whether or not it is paid
sufficient attention in relation to areas that have been
disinvested, or haven't had sufficient investment, and
particularly, west of the Bann, which, in Northern Ireland
terms, predominantly Catholic areas are west of the Bann, and
they would argue that they are grossly underrepresented in
terms of the new jobs, and in terms of the issue of equality.
So that does raise its head.
The other issue for us, like you, is the issue of race, and
what Northern Ireland was opening up to prior to Brexit were
the European communities. We had a very large Polish community
in Northern Ireland, and Portuguese and many others came to
work in Northern Ireland. Many of them have now returned
because of Brexit.
But we have an increasing number of ethnic minorities who
resent the fact that we continue to talk about Protestant and
Catholic only in terms of underrepresentation. So that is an
issue that is also paid attention to now in terms of policing
those communities, as you too have recently had experienceof
confronting in the United States.
And, so, the issue of inclusion is key to peacemaking in
terms of all of those identities, ethnic and gender and sexual
orientation, as well as religion. But our focus, as you have
guessed in terms of this conversation today, has been
predominantly on political identity, and on religion, the
largest part of our peace-building. And it shows you that it is
a good sign of peace, that we have become much more inclusive
of those other identities.
Ms. Spanberger. Thank you very much to the witnesses.
And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you.
Mr. Keating. Thank you vice chair.
And, unanimous consent, we would like to just have a second
round of 3-minute questions just as followups. I will go first
just with one question that was both--that was mentioned in two
of the witnesses' written testimony that I just want to explore
more. And that is, the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition was
credited with the inclusion of civic forums in the Good Friday
Agreement.
And, you know, what is the importance of reinstating these
forums after they were disbanded shortly after the creation of
the Northern Ireland Assembly? Can you touch upon the
importance of that and how it could possibly be reinstated?
Ms. McWilliams. Yes. The civic forum, we put into the Good
Friday Agreement because we were very aware that there may be
some political instability as the government's arrangements
came into place. And that--sometimes it is really important to
put social and economic and cultural issues into another body,
as an advisory body to the legislativ assembly. Not that it
would be totally representative, because it was not elected,
but that it would be able to sit alongside the Assembly in
those years as repreentatives of civil society.
And, indeed, it did. It was established, but only for a
short time, because the political parties told me--and if they
were saying it to me, they were saying it to the other parties-
--we are now in place here. We do not need a civic forum.
Now, that was quite a shock and an indictment at a time
when we were building peace. Of course, you needed a civic
forum and sensible civic dialog from business leaders, trade
unionists, farmers, the victims sector and, those who have been
to prison along with_the youth sector, the women's sector and,
the children's sector.
We had designated all the different types of sectors that
would be prepared voluntarily to step forward and give their
leadership to the civic forum, and indeed they did, but it was
stood down. The Assembly collapsed four times during my period
as an elected member. And the first time it did, the civic
forum got nowhere after that. And eventually it just
disappeared, because there was not the investment in keeping it
going.
And it seems to me a very easy resource. It is not
expensive. People volunteer. And those business leaders and
others in civic society, community leaders in particular, are
saying it would be good to hear our voices at this time,
particularly now, and--with all of the controversy and
contestation over the leaving of Europe. And, so, that is why I
suggested that it would be really important to reinsert it.
And, second, as Tip O'Neill used to say, all politics is
local. And if all politics is local, we should actually have a
trickle-down effect to district council levels and where the
disturbances are happening at the local level.
And so, again, a proposal might be to have district council
civic forums where local people, local business leaders and
others can come forward and take testimony, as you are doing
today, invite experts to give accurate information before these
riots break out, and before they wait for disturbances to
happen before they react, to act as a sort of proactive peace-
building mechanism, and that is why I proposed it to put in my
statement today.
Ms. Morrice. Should I comment?
Mr. Keating. Ms. Morrice, yes.
Ms. Morrice. Thank you. Yes, indeed. This is excellent,
because it is a very important part of the Good Friday--I mean,
we are talking here about the implementation of the Good Friday
Agreement, and the civic forum is one of the bits of the Good
Friday Agreement, isn't implemented. So it should--it should be
back up and running.
I, as a member of the European Economic and Social
Committee, if you like, that was the civic forum of Europe.
There were 350 of us from trade unions, business, consumers,
farmers, women's groups, youth groups, all sitting together and
actually giving our opinions on all pieces of European
legislation. And it works very well in that it does not have a
veto. We do not have--we wouldn't have a veto.
But we feed into the decisionmaking process, so the
European Parliament, the Council of Ministers, all receive our
opinions on a certain piece of legislation, and they take it on
board. And, if they want--but they are probably advised to
because of the publicity and the support they would get if they
take on board the work of the civic forum.
So that would be exactly what--how it would work in
Northern Ireland. And, you see, it takes--it takes the politics
out of decisionmaking, if you like, in the civic forum. So,
people are working simply on the impact on an economic, social,
or cultural level. And that really is desperately needed in
Northern Ireland.
You know, if you can have farmers arguing with consumers
about prices and things like that, it is a much healthier
argument. And that is what we should definitely have. And the
United States really insisting on the implementation of the
Good Friday Agreement with that one would be excellent. Thank
you.
Mr. Keating. Yes. Thank you. I wanted to highlight--that
was in your written testimony, and I thought it was an
important way to try and maybe break down some of the division,
because some of the division, I think, is more political than
maybe exists with a majority of the public, so----
Ms. Morrice. Yes.
Mr. Keating [continuing]. I just wanted to highlight that.
Thank you.
If Vice Chair Spanberger or Rep Jim Costa have a second-
round question, I will recognize them at this time.
Vice Chair Spanberger?
Ms. Spanberger. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and
thank you to our witnesses for allowing us a second round with
your time.
So, my question is about U.S. engagement, and, you know,
notably, one of the steps that the Biden Administration may
consider is the appointment of a U.S. special envoy for
Northern Ireland.
Ambassador Reiss, I will direct this question to you. What
do you think President Biden should keep in mind as he
considers whether to appoint an envoy? And, if so, how to
select the appropriate person?
Mr. Reiss. Well, I think that the President needs to confer
with Secretary of State Blinken and choose somebody who has the
time, the energy, and the passion to commit to this issue. It
cannot be an afterthought. It cannot be a third or fourth job.
And I think somebody who is going to have an open mind;
somebody who is going to be seen as an honest broker by all the
parties, especially across the sectarian divide in the north;
and somebody who will have access to the Secretary of State and
to the President as needed.
It is tempting, of course, to present it to a political
donor, and there may be some that actually fit those
qualifications. But I think that, given where Northern Ireland
is now, what the challenges are, and the potential positive
role the United States can perform, I think it would be well
advised to give it to somebody who understands the issues, the
key players, and has a positive sense of what the United States
can achieve.
Ms. Spanberger. Thank you.
I am smiling, because I think that so many of the comments,
particularly about the focus, the experience, the recognition
of, and the knowledge of who the key players are is important.
And certainly I think those who have spent a career in the
Foreign Service, or in the service to our diplomatic priorities
have a particular experience that is valued.
Professor McWilliams and Ms. Morrice, in my remaining
moments, I am curious if you would have any thoughts about, if
there were a special envoy, how that individual could support
or complement the local efforts to reaffirm peace and build
tolerance and prosperity ultimately?
Ms. McWilliams. Well, it is--I think it is crucial at this
time, and that person then has the ear of both the Congress,
and, indeed, if it was the President's envoy, likewise. And it
would build confidence, I think, in us ourselves back here that
we have that conduit.
I want to pay tribute here to the U.S. consul in Belfast,
and to the consulars that we have had over the years, who have
been first class. And I know them all, and they have done such
a great job in terms of the service they have given us. But
that person, as you know, comes and goes.
Ms. Spanberger. Right.
Ms. McWilliams. And what we need now is the continuity. We
have missed having an envoy for some time now, and, perhaps,
Mitchell was right in that there was a time when we needed to
be weaned off envoys. I used to say to Senator Mitchell, It is
time we are on solids now.
And it would be nice to think that we--one day soon we
might be on solids, but we are not there yet. And that is why
the U.S. envoy is so important to us.
Ms. Morrice. Could I just say that I think it is actually
part of a demonstration of the U.S. commitment to peace and
reconciliation in Northern Ireland. So that is important. But,
at a practical level, obviously it opens up more, and gets the
chains of engagement and communication. Definitely, it is--it
would be a very valuable thing, and I unfortunately did not put
it into mine, but I will certainly add my voice to that.
But I would also like to pay tribute to--and obviously we
have talked about the Clintons, the role played by the
Clintons, both for women in Northern Ireland and for peace in
Northern Ireland. It is hugely important.
But I also want to mention Obama, and his support for
integrated education, when he came over here was very, very
important.
And then, I want to come to someone else, Nancy Pelosi. It
was excellent that she came here and that she--we met her and
we talked about, and she listened. And finding out more about
us is exactly what an envoy would ensure happens, much, much
more coming and going of these people, which is very good.
And last, but not least, I would admit, obviously Biden,
the fact that he is already talking about the Good Friday
Agreement at the early stages, and he knows the stuff so well.
But can I put in a plug, please? Could we make sure that on
his first visit to Ireland, which I am assuming is going to be
very soon, next year maybe, COVID permitting, but that he comes
north of the border. That would be a big, big, important
gesture.
And two things: One, that he, like other Presidents who
have come before, visits an integrated school. That gives a
very important message; and, second, launches this wonderful
new musical On Eagles Wings, the Ulster-Scots tradition.
Now, would that--would those be wonderful things for
President Biden to do when he gets here, and thank him for
committing to the Good Friday Agreement.
Mr. Reiss. Excuse me. I do not want to take anything away
from all the Democratic politicians that were cited, but I
think, in the--in the interest of fairness, that perhaps there
were a few Republican Presidents and Republican Members of
Congress, and just Republican citizens that actually had
something to do with advancing the peace process over the
years.
Ms. Morrice. I agree. Thank you very much for reminding me.
Ms. Spanberger. Thank you for reviewing that bit of
bipartisanship back in the committee, Mr. Ambassador, and I
appreciate the answers from all of our witnesses.
And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Keating. Well, thank you. And I--I will let go the fact
that serving with someone like Peter King, a former colleague
of mine and friend, certainly played an important role as well.
Representative Costa, do you have any--30--you have 3
minutes, if you would like, for a second round of questioning?
Mr. Costa. Well, just quickly. I commend my colleague,
Congresswoman Spanberger, for asking the question in terms of
an envoy, and I think that both Peter King, a list of our
Republican colleagues who have taken an active role, as well as
our Democratic Members--I have absolute faith that President
Biden, given all of his past involvement on these issues, is
going to choose an envoy that clearly reflects someone who has
the skill sets necessary to represent the administration. I
think he takes this area--this issue very seriously, as does
Speaker Pelosi. Her comments in April of last year as it
relates to the Good Friday Agreement, I think, are well-Stated.
Just let me quickly ask you: Do you think that getting back
to the EU role, that the Commission should appoint such an
envoy representing the EU?
Ms. Morrice. Well, by the way, I was that person. The
European Commission has offices, representations they are
called, in every member State. And, in terms of the larger
member States, it is not only in the capital, but it is also in
the regions. They had--in the U.K. There was one in Belfast,
Edinburgh, and Cardiff, as well as London.
And I was the representative for 7 years in the EC's office
in Belfast. And, yes, I am awfully glad you raised that. There
is still someone here, but obviously there is--it is a
different role now, because it is no longer a representative
instrument. It is more like an embassy or something.
So it is different, and I--you are absolutely right. I
think that they should go back to there being--back to the
representation we had, because that was huge. But, when I was
in the office in Belfast, that was the first peace program.
And, by the way, there is one name we haven't mentioned
yet. John Hume. You know, the role of John Hume in bringing
both America and Europe together. And those days--this is the
early 1990's. I was there from 1992 to 1997. And John Hume was
instrumental in bringing about the European peace program----
Mr. Costa. Yes. That is true.
Ms. Morrice [continuing]. And working with my office. And,
of course--so, yes, we should reinstate it. But there is a
slight problem in that there is even a debate or argument or
controversy--I do not know what the right word is--about
whether--or if there is an EC office in Northern Ireland, where
it should be situated. Should it be in central Belfast, or
should it be at the border? There is--I do not know where they
are with that, but----
Mr. Costa. Yes.
Ms. Morrice [continuing]. Certainly should be.
Mr. Costa. Thank you.
Ms. Morrice. Thank you.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative.
Mr. Costa. I heard that you held that position. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman for the subcommittee.
Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative.
And thank you for bringing the name John Hume forward to be
recognized, as well as the colleagues I worked with in my time
here, Peter King.
I also want to ask unanimous consent. Chairman Richie Neal
is chairing a Ways and Means hearing that occurred
simultaneously with this, and he did submit a statement, and I
am asking unanimous consent that that be placed on the record,
the official record for this hearing, and I want to recognize
him and thank him for all his work as well.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Neal follows:]
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Mr. Keating. Just a couple of closing comments that are
important. No. 1, I have noticed both Professor McWilliams and
Ms. Morrice are wearing the colors of the Northern Ireland
Women's Coalition, and so, that did not go unnoticed, and I
want to thank you. It is a symbol of your continued commitment
to that cause.
Ambassador, thank you for your comments. This is a
terrific--we couldn't ask for a better panel to discuss these
issues, and your insight is incredibly important. All three of
you, thank you for doing that.
I think I made it clear, you know, that, even as a person
with Irish heritage--my grandparents emigrated from Ireland to
the U.S. I am speaking as an American, however, when I want to
just point to the fact there is great pride in what the U.S.
had accomplished here. It goes unsaid. Even when we go to other
parts of the world, other leaders in conflict will bring this
up as a symbol that, when hope seems hopeless, that the real
challenge of peace can be met, and they point to the Good
Friday Agreement all the time, all over the world, as an
example of what can be overcome.
And it gives me enormous pride as an American that we are
part of that, and we were a part of that, and we should be part
of it until all the commitment is met going forward to that
agreement.
Brexit has caused its difficulties, as we anticipated, but
I hope that the Protocol is adhered to and, we can move forward
with this. There is some excellent suggestions by our witnesses
today how to do that. And we--and also, a reinforcement that,
even prior to Brexit, there was unfinished work to be done, and
we could see some of the cracks in the agreement coming forth.
And, we have to make sure that not only this is a
commitment to an agreement that was important for peace with
Northern Ireland, with U.K., with Ireland, with all of Europe,
but the U.S., as a principal member of this as well, for work
that is undone.
So it remains a priority with me. It remains a priority--a
bipartisan priority with this committee, and the full
committee, as well as Congress. This is a unifying issue for
Congress on both sides of the aisle.
And I will just finish with one of your suggestions, as I
took to heart. I will be circulating a letter among colleagues,
if they choose to join me, formally asking the President to
appoint a special envoy to Northern Ireland, and take, you
know, the information we had from you to heart and bring it
forward.
So thank you again. This was just a terrific panel, a very
important hearing, and one that I think we will have a lot of
followup on.
With that, I will have to do a little homework, and say
members of the committee will have 5 days to submit statements,
extraneous material, and questions for the record subject to
the length limitation of the rules.
And, with that, I move that this hearing be adjourned, and
thank you again.
[Whereupon, at 12:55p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX
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RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
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