[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                                 

 
                    WORKING TOWARDS CLIMATE EQUITY:
                 THE CASE FOR A FEDERAL CLIMATE SERVICE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE,
                             AND TECHNOLOGY
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             APRIL 21, 2021

                               __________

                            Serial No. 117-9

                               __________

 Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology
 
 
  [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
 


       Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov

              COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY

             HON. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas, Chairwoman
ZOE LOFGREN, California              FRANK LUCAS, Oklahoma, 
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon                 Ranking Member
AMI BERA, California                 MO BROOKS, Alabama
HALEY STEVENS, Michigan,             BILL POSEY, Florida
    Vice Chair                       RANDY WEBER, Texas
MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey           BRIAN BABIN, Texas
JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York              ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
BRAD SHERMAN, California             MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado              JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana
JERRY McNERNEY, California           PETE SESSIONS, Texas
PAUL TONKO, New York                 DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida
BILL FOSTER, Illinois                MIKE GARCIA, California
DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey          STEPHANIE I. BICE, Oklahoma
DON BEYER, Virginia                  YOUNG KIM, California
CHARLIE CRIST, Florida               RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois                JAKE LaTURNER, Kansas
CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania             CARLOS A. GIMENEZ, Florida
DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina         JAY OBERNOLTE, California
GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin                PETER MEIJER, Michigan
DAN KILDEE, Michigan                 VACANCY
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
VACANCY
                                 ------                                

                      Subcommittee on Environment

              HON. MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey, Chairwoman
SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon             STEPHANIE I. BICE, Oklahoma,
DAN KILDEE, Michigan                   Ranking Member
LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas               ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
CHARLIE CRIST, Florida               RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois                CARLOS A. GIMENEZ, Florida

                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                             April 21, 2021

                                                                   Page

Hearing Charter..................................................     2

                           Opening Statements

Statement by Representative Mikie Sherrill, Chairwoman, 
  Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and 
  Technology, U.S. House of Representatives......................     8
    Written Statement............................................     9

Statement by Representative Stephanie I. Bice, Ranking Member, 
  Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and 
  Technology, U.S. House of Representatives......................    10
    Written Statement............................................    12

Statement by Representative Frank Lucas, Ranking Member, 
  Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of 
  Representatives................................................    12
    Written Statement............................................    13

Written statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, 
  Chairwoman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. 
  House of Representatives.......................................    14

                               Witnesses:

Dr. Richard Moss, Senior Scientist, Pacific Northwest National 
  Laboratory's Joint Global Change Research Institute at the 
  University of Maryland, Chair, Convening Board, SCAN, and Non-
  resident Fellow, Andlinger Center, Princeton University
    Oral Statement...............................................    15
    Written Statement............................................    18

Ms. Beth Gibbons, Executive Director, American Society of 
  Adaptation Professionals
    Oral Statement...............................................    35
    Written Statement............................................    37

Dr. Jeffrey B. Basara, Director, Kessler Atmospheric and 
  Ecological Field Station, Executive Associate Director, 
  Hydrology and Water Security Program, University of Oklahoma
    Oral Statement...............................................    51
    Written Statement............................................    53

Ms. Liz Williams Russell, Climate Justice Program Director, 
  Foundation for Louisiana
    Oral Statement...............................................    89
    Written Statement............................................    91
    Appendices:
        ``Nonprofit Knowledge Works,'' LASAFE Final Report.......    99
        ``Predicting the Future of Coastal Communities: Toward 
          Fairness and Equity in Coastal Planning,'' Foundation 
          for Louisiana, et al...................................   102
        ``Toward Holistic Planning for Community Adaptation on 
          the Louisiana Coast,'' Workshop Report.................   106

Discussion.......................................................   133

             Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions

Dr. Richard Moss, Senior Scientist, Pacific Northwest National 
  Laboratory's Joint Global Change Research Institute at the 
  University of Maryland, Chair, Convening Board, SCAN, and Non-
  resident Fellow, Andlinger Center, Princeton University........   150

Ms. Beth Gibbons, Executive Director, American Society of 
  Adaptation Professionals.......................................   157

            Appendix II: Additional Material for the Record

Letters submitted by Representative Mikie Sherrill, Chairwoman, 
  Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and 
  Technology, U.S. House of Representatives

    Lexi Shultz, Vice President, Public Affairs, American 
      Geophysical Union..........................................   162

    The American Society of Civil Engineers......................   164

    ``Support for Federal Investment and Leadership in Climate 
      Services,'' Bill McCormick, P.E., P.G., President, 
      Association of State Dam Safety Officials..................   170

    Chad Berginnis, Executive Director, Association of State 
      Floodplain Managers........................................   172

    James Arnott, Executive Director, Julie Vano, Research 
      Director, Aspen Global Change Institute....................   174

    Jeff Hicks, CEO, James Fox, Senior Resilience Associate, 
      FernLeaf Interactive.......................................   177

    Tonya Graham, Executive Director, Geos Institute, et al......   179

    Steve Demetriou, Chair & Chief Executive Officer, Jacobs.....   185

    Rich Sorkin, CEO, Jupiter Intelligence.......................   186

    Jeanne Herb, Co-director, Marjorie Kaplan, Co-director, NJ 
      Climate Change Resource Center.............................   192

    Jennifer Jurado, Ph.D., Chief Resilience Officer and 
      Director, Environmental Planning and Community Resilience 
      Division, Broward County, Southeast Florida Regional 
      Climate Change Compact, et al..............................   196

    David McGlinchey, Chief of External Affairs, Woodwell Climate 
      Research Center............................................   198

Studies submitted by Ms. Beth Gibbons, Executive Director, 
  American Society of Adaptation Professionals

    ``2021 Policy Priorities,'' American Society of Adaptation 
      Professionals..............................................   200

    Policy Recommendations, American Society of Adaptation 
      Professionals..............................................   204

    ``ASAP Living Guide to the Principles of Climate Change 
      Adaptation,'' American Society of Adaptation Professionals.   213

    ``ASAP Justice, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion Statement,'' 
      American Society of Adaptation Professionals...............   229

    ``Climate Change Adaptation & Resilience Industry Segments,'' 
      American Society of Adaptation Professionals...............   231

    ``Advancing Meaningful Climate Action Through TCFD 
      Disclosures,'' WSP.........................................   235


                        WORKING TOWARDS CLIMATE



                          EQUITY: THE CASE FOR



                       A FEDERAL CLIMATE SERVICE

                              ----------                              


                       WEDNESDAY, APRIL 21, 2021

                  House of Representatives,
                       Subcommittee on Environment,
               Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
                                                   Washington, D.C.

     The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:01 a.m., 
via Zoom, Hon. Mikie Sherrill [Chairwoman of the Subcommittee] 
presiding.
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     Chairwoman Sherrill. All right. Well, I think we'll get 
started. And I think we're expecting our Ranking Member in just 
a few moments. She got a bit caught up--oh, there she is. 
Fantastic. Wonderful. OK. So welcome, everyone.
     First, Members should keep their video feed on as long as 
they are present at the hearing, just a few reminders. And so--
and I'm going to just go over the precepts of the hearing as we 
get started.
     So this hearing will come to order. Without objection, the 
Chair is authorized to declare recess at any time. Pursuant to 
House Resolution 8, today, the Committee is meeting virtually, 
so I do want to announce a couple reminders to the Members 
about the conduct of this remote hearing.
     As I mentioned, keep your video feed on as long as you are 
present. Members are responsible for their own microphones, 
always dangerous. Please keep your microphones muted unless you 
are speaking. Finally, if Members have documents they wish to 
submit for the record, please email them to the Committee 
Clerk, whose email address was circulated prior to the hearing.
     Good morning. Welcome to the first Environment 
Subcommittee hearing of the 117th Congress. I would also like 
to welcome Ranking Member Bice to the Subcommittee. Ranking 
Member of the Full Committee, Congressman Lucas, is also here 
with us today. Thank you so much for joining us.
     I look forward to continuing this Subcommittee's 
bipartisan work to advance our understanding of the Earth 
system and support science that empowers us to confront the 
pressing challenges that we face with the climate crisis.
     Climate change is increasingly an acute, costly reality 
for businesses and communities across the country, whether it's 
electric utilities facing increased threats from drought and 
wildfires or city streets inundated with stormwater runoff and 
sunny-day flooding. As Congress considers investments to 
rebuild our country's infrastructure and take action to 
mitigate the most catastrophic impacts of the climate crisis, 
the best available science is crucial to making sure that 
precious dollars are spent on projects that will last. Today's 
hearing is about making sure our Nation's state-of-the-art 
climate observations, modeling, and research makes it into the 
hands of the workers upgrading our highways and bridges, 
growing our food, and retrofitting our buildings.
     The gaps in actionable climate risk information are 
impacting communities like the ones I represent in the 11th 
District of New Jersey. My constituents have long experienced 
flooding, but climate change is only increasing the risk for 
more frequent and intense heavy precipitation events in our 
area. For example, in 2018 nearly 5 inches of precipitation 
fell in just 50 minutes, causing catastrophic flooding in 
Caldwell, Little Falls, and Woodland Park, even carrying away 
42 cars from a Jeep dealership. And when Hurricane Irene hit, 
rains flooded parts of Morristown, washing away the bottom 
floor of the historic Bethel AME church.
     To help us understand how this reality will affect us in 
the near term, Federal scientific agencies collect large-scale, 
trusted data from NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric 
Administration) satellites and USGS (United States Geological 
Survey) streamgages. While these data inform some of the best 
climate models and research in the world, they don't always get 
translated into tools and local information that can help a 
family in Pequannock decide whether to purchase a mortgage in a 
flood-prone area, or help a town manager in Pompton Lakes 
determine when to dredge rivers to minimize flood hazards, or 
assist officials in Fairfield assess the need to raise homes to 
avoid flooding damage.
     This is both a science issue and an equity issue. The 
private sector is building innovative products underpinned by 
Federal data to help their clients understand and act on 
climate risk. However, at a time when State and local 
governments are resource-strapped, not all communities can hire 
consultants or a climate services firm to help them incorporate 
climate risk into their resilience planning. Smaller and rural 
communities, as well as underserved communities and communities 
of color, which are often first hit and worst hit by climate 
change, must have the basic information they need to make the 
difficult adaptation decisions we are facing now and in the 
years to come.
     While the private sector is a critical partner, it cannot 
replace an authoritative, accessible baseline of Federal 
science and climate services. Federal climate services should 
also incorporate sustained feedback and coproduction of 
knowledge with impacted communities to make sure the science 
remains decision-relevant as user needs rapidly change.
     Earlier this year, I introduced two bills to tackle the 
challenge of flooding and improve climate risk information. The 
PRECIP Act would update nationwide, authoritative precipitation 
studies, and incorporate future climate risk into the studies, 
in order to improve local flood mapping, weather prediction, 
and resilience planning. The FLOODS Act would establish a 
National Integrated Flood Information System at NOAA to 
coordinate and integrate flood research across the agency, and 
make improvements to flood forecasts, watches, and warnings. 
These bills are just one piece of the puzzle when it comes to 
improving authoritative and actionable Federal tools and 
technical assistance for climate adaptation.
     Similarly, I hope that this conversation is the beginning 
of a robust dialog on the Subcommittee about what a Federal--
what a system of Federal climate services should look like and 
how it can best serve communities on the frontlines of this 
crisis.
     I am pleased to welcome our distinguished panel of 
witnesses today who will help provide critical perspectives on 
this issue.
     [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Sherrill follows:]

    Good morning, and welcome to the first Environment 
Subcommittee hearing of the 117th Congress. I would also like 
to welcome Ranking Member Bice to the subcommittee. I look 
forward to continuing this subcommittee's bipartisan work to 
advance our understanding of the Earth system and support 
science that empowers us to confront the pressing challenges 
that we face with the climate crisis.
    Climate change is increasingly an acute, costly reality for 
businesses and communities across the country, whether it is 
electric utilities facing increased threats from drought and 
wildfires or city streets inundated with stormwater runoff and 
sunny-day flooding.
    As Congress considers investments to rebuild our country's 
infrastructure and take action to mitigate the most 
catastrophic impacts of the climate crisis, the best available 
science is crucial to making sure that precious dollars are 
spent on projects that will last.
    Today's hearing is about making sure our Nation's state-of-
the-art climate observations, modeling, and research makes it 
into the hands of the workers upgrading our highways and 
bridges, growing our food, and retrofitting our buildings.
    The gaps in actionable climate risk information are 
impacting communities like the ones I represent in the 11th 
District of New Jersey. My constituents have long experienced 
flooding, but climate change is only increasing the risk for 
more frequent and intense heavy precipitation events in our 
area. For example, in 2018 nearly 5 inches of precipitation 
fell in just 50 minutes causing catastrophic flooding in 
Caldwell, Little Falls and Woodland Park, even carrying away 42 
cars from a Jeep dealership. And when Hurricane Irene hit, 
rains flooded parts of Morristown, washing away the bottom 
floor of the historic Bethel AME church.
    To help us understand how this reality will affect us in 
the near term, federal scientific agencies collect large-scale, 
trusted data from NOAA satellites and USGS stream gages. While 
these data inform some of the best climate models and research 
in the world, they don't always get translated into tools and 
local information that can help a family in Pequannock decide 
whether to purchase a mortgage in a flood-prone area, or help a 
town manager in Pompton Lakes determine when to dredge rivers 
to minimize flood hazards, or assist officials in Fairfield 
asses the need to raise homes to avoid flooding damage.
    This is both a science issue and an equity issue. The 
private sector is building innovative products underpinned by 
Federal data to help their clients understand and act on 
climate risk. However, at a time when state and local 
governments are resource-strapped, not all communities can hire 
consultants or a climate services firm to help them incorporate 
climate risk into their resilience planning.
    Smaller and rural communities, as well as underserved 
communities and communities of color which are often hit first 
and worst by climate change, must have the basic information 
they need to make the difficult adaptation decisions we are 
facing now and in the years to come.
    While the private sector is a critical partner, it cannot 
replace an authoritative, accessible baseline of Federal 
science and climate services. Federal climate services should 
also incorporate sustained feedback and co-production of 
knowledge with impacted communities to make sure the science 
remains decision-relevant as user needs rapidly change.
    Earlier this year, I introduced two bills to tackle the 
challenge of flooding and improve climate risk information. The 
PRECIP Act would update nationwide, authoritative precipitation 
studies, and incorporate future climate risk into the studies, 
in order to improve local flood mapping, weather prediction, 
and resilience planning.
    The FLOODS Act would establish a National Integrated Flood 
Information System at NOAA to coordinate and integrate flood 
research across the agency, and make improvements to flood 
forecasts, watches, and warnings.
    These bills are just one piece of the puzzle when it comes 
to improving authoritative and actionable Federal tools and 
technical assistance for climate adaptation.
    Similarly, I hope that this conversation is the beginning 
of a robust dialogue on the Subcommittee about what a system of 
Federal Climate Services should look like, and how it can best 
serve communities on the front lines of this crisis. I am 
pleased to welcome our distinguished panel of witnesses today 
who will help provide critical perspectives on this issue.
    With that, I now recognize Ranking Member Bice for her 
opening statement.

     Chairwoman Sherrill. And now I'd like to recognize Ranking 
Member Bice for her opening statement.
     Ms. Bice. Thank you, Chairwoman Sherrill. I'm looking 
forward to this first Subcommittee hearing, as well as a 
productive relationship throughout this entire Congress.
     There are few States who would benefit more from a better 
understanding of weather and climate than Oklahoma. We're home 
to 86,000 farms that feed and clothe our State, our Nation, and 
the world. Entire families' livelihoods depend on long-term and 
short-term weather patterns, so any future changes resulting 
from a changing climate need to be effectively communicated to 
them.
     Arguably the most important component of any farmer's 
operation, and a topic of conversation today, is precipitation. 
It's common sense that too little rain results in a drought and 
farmers will have lower yields as a result. But people often 
overlook that too much rain, either in frequency or volume, 
also presents problems to crop production. Precisely predicting 
both high and low values informs what crops to plant and when 
to harvest. Therefore, accurate and trustworthy data, along 
with a variety of other information, is essential to an entire 
industry and many States' main economic driver. And due to the 
unique geography of individual States, a mix of Federal and 
local services is ideal. It is not a one-size-fits-all puzzle.
     Currently, the Federal Government, through the National 
Weather Service and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric 
Administration, operates Atlas 14, which provides precipitation 
frequency estimates that become the standard for relevant 
regulation, permits, and recommended best practices. States use 
this information for standards in designing, building, and 
operating infrastructure to withstand the forces of heavy 
precipitation and floods. At the same time, many States have 
recognized the need for additional data and have dedicated 
their own resources to protect lives and properties with 
accurate forecasts and predictions.
     There is no better example than Oklahoma, where two of the 
State's premier universities--Oklahoma State and the University 
of Oklahoma--have long histories of researching weather 
patterns. The National Weather Service, the Nation's leading 
facility in researching climate and weather, is based in 
Norman, Oklahoma.
     Additionally, you'll find no more valued State resource 
than the Oklahoma Mesonet. Founded as a partnership between 
Oklahoma State and the University of Oklahoma, the Mesonet 
takes weather observations every 5 minutes, then transmits this 
data to a central process facility, which in turn puts it out 
to the public 5 to 10 minutes later. With one Mesonet station 
in every Oklahoma county collecting data 24 hours per day year-
round, weather events like thunderstorms, wind gusts, heat 
bursts, and drylines can't go undetected and wreak havoc on an 
unsuspecting farm or ranch.
     I look forward to hearing from Dr. Jeff Basara, a 
professor and researcher at the University of Oklahoma. His 
research is focused on land-atmosphere interactions and 
understanding the complex relationship between weather, 
climate, water, and ecosystems. He'll be able to share with us 
how he has utilized Federal climate information in his 
research, and how State-based systems like the Mesonet are 
factoring in climate risks and being used by on-the-ground 
decisionmakers. Specially, Dr. Basara can speak to how the 
agriculture industry has been at the forefront of adapting to 
climate and weather risks.
     Oklahoma is just one example of a State taking the lead. 
But as my colleagues from Iowa and Florida will tell you, not 
everyone is facing the same risks. Soil precipitation data from 
Oklahoma doesn't do much good for rising water levels in the 
Florida Everglades. That's why I'm hopeful today's discussion 
will focus on what information and data localities need, not 
just increasing bureaucracy with another government agency or 
service. Through Federal-led partnerships with academics, 
States, private industry, we can identify what information is 
most needed and then work to provide it in a cost-effective, 
resourceful way.
     Thank you, Chairwoman Sherrill, for hosting this hearing, 
and I yield back the balance of my time.
     [The prepared statement of Ms. Bice follows:]

    Thank you, Chairwoman Sherrill. I'm looking forward to this 
first Subcommittee hearing, as well as a productive 
relationship throughout this entire Congress.
    There are few states who would benefit more from a better 
understanding of weather and climate than Oklahoma. We're home 
to 86,000 farms that feed and clothe our state, our nation, and 
the world. Entire families' livelihoods depend on long-term and 
short- term weather patterns, so any future variations 
resulting from a changing climate need to be effectively 
communicated to them.
    Arguably the most important component of any farmer's 
operation, and a topic of conversation today, is precipitation. 
It's common sense that too little rain results in a drought and 
farmers will have lower yields as a result. But people often 
overlook that too much rain, either in frequency or volume, 
also present problems to crop production. Precisely predicting 
both high and low precipitation informs what crops to plant and 
when to harvest.
    Therefore, accurate and trustworthy data, along with a 
variety of other information, is essential to an entire 
industry and many states' main economic driver. And due to the 
unique geography of individual states, a mix of federal and 
local services is ideal. It's not a one size fits all puzzle.
    Currently the federal government, through the National 
Weather Service and National Oceanic and Atmospheric 
Administration (NOAA), operates Atlas 14, which provides 
precipitation frequency estimates that become the standard for 
relevant regulation, permits and recommended best practices. 
States use this information for standards in designing, 
building and operating infrastructure to withstand the forces 
of heavy precipitation and floods.
    At the same time, many states have recognized the need for 
additional data and have dedicated their own resources to 
protect lives and properties with accurate forecasts and 
predictions. There is no better example than Oklahoma, where 
two of the state's premier universities--Oklahoma State 
University and the University of Oklahoma--have long histories 
of researching weather patterns. The National Weather Center--
the nation's leading facility in researching climate and 
weather--is based in Norman, Oklahoma.
    Additionally, you'll find no more valued state resource 
than the Oklahoma Mesonet. Founded as a partnership between OSU 
and OU, the Mesonet takes weather observations every 5 minutes, 
then transmits this data to a central processing facility, 
which in turn puts it out to the public 5 to 10 minutes later. 
With one Mesonet station in each of Oklahoma's 77 counties, 
collecting data 24 hours per day, year-round, weather events 
like thunderstorms, wind gusts, heatbursts, and drylines can't 
go undetected and wreak havoc on an unsuspecting farm or ranch.
    I look forward to hearing from Dr. Jeff Basara, a professor 
and researcher at the University of Oklahoma. His research is 
focused on land-atmosphere interactions and understanding the 
complex relationship between weather, climate, water, and 
ecosystems. He will be able to share with us how he has 
utilized federal climate information in his research, and how 
state-based systems like the Mesonet are factoring in climate 
risks and being used by on-the-ground decision makers. 
Specifically, Dr.
    Basara can speak to how the agriculture industry has been 
at the forefront of adapting to climate and weather risks.
    Oklahoma is just one example of a state taking the lead. 
But as my colleagues from Iowa and Florida will tell you, not 
everyone is facing the same risks. Soil precipitation data from 
Oklahoma doesn't do much good for rising water levels in 
Florida's Everglades.
    That is why I am hopeful today's discussion will focus on 
what information and data localities need, not just increasing 
bureaucracy with another government agency or service. Through 
federal-led partnerships with academics, states, and private 
industry, we can identity what information is most needed and 
then work to provide it in a cost effective, resourceful way.
    Thank you, Chairwoman Sherrill, for hosting this hearing 
and I yield back the balance of my time.

     Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you, Ranking Member Bice.
     We're also excited to have the Full Committee Ranking 
Member Mr. Lucas with us today. The Chair now recognizes the 
Ranking Member for an opening statement.
     Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Chairwoman Sherrill, and of course 
Chairwoman Johnson, for bringing together this excellent panel 
and hearing. I look forward to seeing the productive work of 
this Subcommittee as we move further into the 117th Congress.
     I also want to take a moment and recognize the new Ranking 
Member of the Environment Subcommittee, Representative 
Stephanie Bice. Like me, she is an Oklahoman who has seen 
extreme weather events up close and personal. Therefore, she 
recognizes the critical role of advanced weather prediction and 
forecasting, something this Committee has long prioritized. I 
have no doubt she will be a great voice for Oklahoma and the 
entire U.S. weather enterprise.
     And speaking of the U.S. weather enterprise, this hearing 
is particularly focused on two bills that have the potential to 
update the data and information we collect regarding weather 
events. The PRECIP and FLOODS Acts amend the Weather Research 
and Forecasting Innovation Act of 2017, legislation that I 
introduced that was later signed into law. While I welcome next 
steps to build off the lifesaving policies of the Weather Act, 
I caution against inflating this to establishing a federalized 
climate service.
     An important pillar of the Weather Act was directing NOAA 
to partner with the private sector for weather data collection 
used in its forecasts. It's because of the Weather Act, NOAA 
currently has a clear vision and flexibility when it comes to 
acquiring weather and climate data. Isolating these efforts to 
a new, duplicative service only serves to create more red tape 
and hurdles to our budding weather industry.
     It's also important to note that NOAA is currently a 
climate service, providing information and research to prepare 
for and adapt to climate variability and change. This is 
primarily done through the Regional Integrated Sciences and 
Assessments (RISA) program and the Regional Climate Centers, 
both of which are focused on community-level information and 
risk.
     So before we rush to create a new office, I want to hear 
from our expert panel on what is currently being provided by 
the Federal Government when it comes to climate risk and 
weather. And if there are deficiencies or gaps, we're here to 
help make sure the communities' needs are being met, hopefully 
through existing channels. We have an obligation to provide our 
citizens the most accurate information on climate and weather 
events so they can make informed decisions for their own well-
being. I believe that is best done by maximizing our resources 
through partnerships with the private sector and academic 
institutions.
     Thank you, Madam Chair, and I yield back the balance of my 
time.
     [The prepared statement of Mr. Lucas follows:]

    Thank you, Chairwoman Sherrill and Chairwoman Johnson, for 
bringing together this excellent panel and hearing. I look 
forward to seeing the productive work of this subcommittee as 
we move further into the 117th Congress.
    I also want to take a moment and recognize the new Ranking 
Member of the Environment Subcommittee, Rep. Stephanie Bice. 
Like me, she is an Oklahoman who has seen extreme weather 
events up close and personal. Therefore, she recognizes the 
critical role of advanced weather prediction and forecasting--
something this Committee has long prioritized. I have no doubt 
she will be a great voice for Oklahoma and the entire U.S. 
weather enterprise.
    And speaking of the U.S. weather enterprise, today's 
hearing is partially focused on two bills that have the 
potential to update the data and information we collect 
regarding weather events. The PRECIP and FLOODS Acts amend the 
Weather Research and Forecasting Innovation Act of 2017--
legislation I introduced that was later signed into law. While 
I welcome next steps to build off the life-saving policies in 
the Weather Act, I caution against inflating this to 
establishing a federalized climate service.
    An important pillar of the Weather Act was directing NOAA 
to partner with the private sector for weather data collection 
used in its forecasts. It's because of the Weather Act that 
NOAA currently has a clear vision and flexibility when it comes 
to acquiring weather and climate data. Isolating these efforts 
to a new, duplicative service only serves to create more red 
tape and hurdles to our budding weather industry.
    It's also important to note that NOAA is currently a 
climate service, providing information and research to prepare 
for and adapt to climate variability and change. This is 
primarily done through their Regional Integrated Sciences and 
Assessments (RISA) program and Regional Climate Centers, both 
of which are focused on community level information and risk.
    So before we rush to create another office, I want to hear 
from our expert panel on what is currently being provided by 
the federal government when it comes to climate risk and 
weather. And if there are deficiencies or gaps, we are here to 
help and make sure community needs are being met, hopefully 
through existing channels.
    We have an obligation to provide our citizens the most 
accurate information on climate and weather events so that they 
can make informed decisions for their own well-being. I believe 
that is best done by maximizing our resources through 
partnerships with the private sector and academic institutions.
    Thank you Madam Chair and I yield back my time.

     Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. And if there are Members 
who wish to submit additional opening statements, your 
statements will be added to the record at this point.
     [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Johnson follows:]

    Thank you, Chairwoman Sherrill, for holding this important 
hearing today.Good morning and thanks to all our witnesses for 
being here. As we heard at last month's climate hearing, 
climate change is impacting many facets of our society, and the 
time to make adaptation and mitigation decisions is now. It is 
vital that decision makers who are responsible for preparing 
our communities to adapt to and withstand the effects of 
climate change, both today and in the future, have the most up 
to date and relevant climate information possible.
    As we often discuss on this Committee, the Federal 
government has a key role in investing in climate science, 
observations, and models that lead to robust climate data and 
information. But just having the science and data alone is not 
sufficient; it is important to translate that science and data 
into tools and technical support to help decision makers make 
appropriate adaptation and mitigation decisions. Climate 
services encompass that translation of climate data into 
actionable, relevant information.
    There are many sources of Federal climate information and 
services that are freely available to the public, including 
several at agencies such as NOAA, USDA, and USGS. However, 
these programs are fragmented across the Federal government 
making it hard for communities to know where to turn when it 
comes time to make decisions. There is a clear need for 
coordination of these climate services at the Federal level.
    Actionable climate information and services are critically 
important for small, rural, frontline, or otherwise underserved 
communities. Given the often-disproportionate impacts of 
climate change on underserved communities, access to these 
climate services is not something that can be left up to a 
community's ability to pay. Every community across our country 
deserves a level playing field when it comes to utilizing the 
highest quality climate information and decision support to 
help prepare them for future climate risk. The Federal 
government has a key role to play in ensuring equitable access 
to climate services for every American.
    I look forward to today's discussion with this panel of 
expert witnesses to better understand what the end users of 
climate data and services need from the Federal government to 
help make the critical decisions that incorporate future 
climate risk.

     Chairwoman Sherrill. At this time I would like to 
introduce our witnesses. Our first witness is Dr. Richard Moss. 
Dr. Moss is a Senior Scientist at the Joint Global Change 
Research Institute and a Nonresident Fellow of the Andlinger 
Center for Energy and the Environment at Princeton University. 
He has published research on climate scenarios, adaptation, and 
decisionmaking support. Dr. Moss currently chairs the Convening 
Board for the Science for Climate Action Network, which is 
committed to improving the use of science to more effectively 
respond to climate change.
     Our next witness is Beth Gibbons. Ms. Gibbons is the 
Executive Director of the American Society of Adaptation 
Professionals (ASAP). In this role, she has strengthened the 
capacity of adaptation in individuals and organizations, 
accelerated development of the adaptation field, and played a 
key role in mapping the movement of climate data from its 
production to its use. Ms. Gibbons has additional experience 
with climate science from previously serving as Program Manager 
of the NOAA Regional Integrated Sciences and Assessment Center 
of the Great Lakes Region and as Director of the University of 
Michigan's Climate Center.
     Our third witness is Dr. Jeffrey Basara. Dr. Basara is the 
Executive Associate Director of Hydrology and Water Security 
Program at the University of Oklahoma and an Associate 
Professor of the University of Oklahoma's School of Meteorology 
and School of Civil Engineering and Environmental Science. His 
research focuses on precipitation extremes, land atmosphere 
interactions, and the development of observational and modeling 
strategies.
     Our final witness is Liz Williams Russell. Ms. Russell is 
the Climate Justice Program Director at Foundation for 
Louisiana (FFL) where she has leveraged $54 million toward 
climate justice planning, managed a public adaptation planning 
process, supported water workforce training and certification 
programs, and advanced research on the coastal climate trends 
affecting Louisiana.
     As our witnesses should know, you will each have five 
minutes for your spoken testimony. Your written testimony will 
be included in the record for the hearing. When you all have 
completed your spoken testimony, we will begin with questions. 
Each Member will have five minutes to question the panel, and 
we will start with Dr. Moss.

        TESTIMONY OF DR. RICHARD MOSS, SENIOR SCIENTIST,

            PACIFIC NORTHWEST NATIONAL LABORATORY'S

             JOINT GLOBAL CHANGE RESEARCH INSTITUTE

                 AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND,

                 CHAIR, CONVENING BOARD, SCAN,

                    AND NON-RESIDENT FELLOW,

             ANDLINGER CENTER, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY

     Dr. Moss. Good morning, and thank you, Subcommittee 
Chairwoman Sherrill, Subcommittee Ranking Member Bice, Full 
Committee Ranking Member Lucas, and Members of the 
Subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you 
today. I note my comments represent my views and not those of 
the Department of Energy.
     Over my career I've looked at climate information issues 
from many angles both in science and applications. I've also 
helped coordinate Federal research as the Director of the 
Office for the U.S. Global Change Research Program (USGCRP) 
under Presidents Clinton and Bush. I've contributed to local, 
national, and international assessments, and have been a staff 
member at several NGO's (non-governmental organizations) 
working on climate action. I've seen several promising Federal 
approaches to climate services fail after confronting a wide 
range of foreseen and unforeseen challenges. Today, I want to 
highlight some ideas and principles that could contribute to 
success.
     There is a clear opportunity for Federal leadership. 
Currently, climate services are provided by many different 
entities, including both Federal agencies and nonFederal 
agencies such as regional networks, university centers, NGO's, 
and private-sector firms. This structure has many advantages. 
The diversity of providers reflects the diversity of local, 
regional, sectoral, and institutional contexts where climate 
action needs to be taken. Non-Federal providers have developed 
trusted relationships with users, which will be critical to 
ensure information is trusted and put into practice. They are 
well-placed to integrate climate science with detailed local 
knowledge.
     Greater Federal action is needed to take more of a 
leadership role and create a new framework that improves our 
existing distributed system and adds five things: strong 
governance framework with clear lines of communication and 
authority; findable, accessible, and usable data and 
information; support for many types of technical assistance and 
engagement; ongoing research and processes for learning from 
experience; and finally, sufficient resources to support strong 
governance and provide incentives to participate. My written 
testimony addresses each of these, but for reasons of time, 
today, I will focus on just three.
     First, requirements for governance. A critical first step 
to improve climate services is to engage non-Federal players in 
developing a strategy. Non-Federal and Federal actors must work 
together to articulate a vision, mission, and goals, as well as 
principles for setting priorities, participation, and quality 
assurance. Effective governance will require new authority or a 
coordination mechanism, as well as strong nonpolitical standing 
oversight. Several reports, including the 2016 Government 
Accountability Office (GAO) study, highlight options. Whatever 
option is used, the new entity will need to have sufficient 
authority to set priorities and negotiate adjustments to agency 
efforts. Furthermore, this effort should have a mechanism for 
maintaining stability across administrations. Finally, direct 
engagement with existing climate services networks and 
providers and with local-to-regional users must be sustained.
     Second, technical assistance. Research has shown that 
communities of color and economically disadvantaged communities 
face even greater burdens from climate-change-related impacts 
for a number of reasons, for example, because they 
disproportionately live in more vulnerable areas. If our system 
for climate services is to contribute to realizing our ideals 
as a nation, it will need to include deep engagement with these 
communities, as well as substantial funding for technical 
assistance and other measures to ensure all have access to 
needed information and support irrespective of their ability to 
pay.
     Finally, with respect to the need for research and 
assessment, while our understanding of climate change and its 
impacts on society has advanced rapidly, support for research 
at agencies like the Department of Energy, NOAA, NASA (National 
Aeronautics and Space Administration), and other agencies that 
participate in the USGCRP must increase if we are to continue 
improving knowledge that is relevant at the local level where 
most solutions will be implemented.
     More support is also needed for solutions-oriented 
research. My written statement and an underlying report 
describe one aspect, how to evaluate practical experience 
through a well-organized method for learning by doing. This 
method could be incorporated into a national climate 
information system, the National Climate Assessment (NCA), and/
or pending legislation on flooding and extreme events that 
we've heard about for this Committee.
     In conclusion, I applaud the Committee for recognizing the 
country's urgent need to better coordinate and accelerate the 
delivery of climate services to address glowing climate 
impacts. I hope that my testimony has provided some helpful 
insights as you work to address this challenge. Thank you again 
for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to your 
questions.
     [The prepared statement of Dr. Moss follows:]
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     Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you, Dr. Moss.
     Next, we have Ms. Gibbons.

       TESTIMONY OF MS. BETH GIBBONS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,

          AMERICAN SOCIETY OF ADAPTATION PROFESSIONALS

     Ms. Gibbons. Good morning, Subcommittee Chairwoman 
Sherrill, Subcommittee Ranking Member Bice, Ranking Member--
Ranking Committee Member Lucas, and Members of the Committee. 
Thank you for the opportunity to testify about the state of 
climate change adaptation, the role of Federal agencies, and 
the opportunities and obligations we have before us to use our 
collective action to create more resilient communities.
     My name is Beth Gibbons, and I serve as the Executive 
Director of the American Society of Adaptation Professionals. I 
live in southeast Michigan on the ancestral lands of the 
Anishinaabe people, the Three Fires people who are Odawa, 
Ojibwe, and Potawatomi and Wyandot, in a place that today is 
called Ypsilanti, Michigan. I've spent the last 20 years 
working on community development and a decade focused 
specifically on climate change adaptation in the United States. 
In my career it's been a privilege to serve as a U.S. Peace 
Corps volunteer, the Program Manager for the NOAA RISA program 
of the Great Lakes Region, and the Director of University of 
Michigan's Climate Center.
     When I left working in the public sector, I did so because 
I saw an acute need for coordination and support to the growing 
ranks of climate adaptation professionals across North America. 
As recently as 10 years ago, there was no U.S. organization 
focusing on accelerating and standardizing the climate change 
adaptation field and practice. But thankfully, that's no longer 
the case.
     ASAP connects and supports climate change adaptation and 
resilience professionals to advance innovative and just 
adaptation across North America. Successful adaptation is 
holistic and requires coordination from the Federal to the 
local level and across multiple sectors and disciplines. Gone 
is the time when we can attempt to deliver single-issue 
solutions to our complex communities-challenges.
     And the adaptation field is full of leaders and 
changemakers with diverse backgrounds and types of expertise. 
The thread that connects all of us is the adaptation--is ASAP's 
definition of adaptation professionals, those who integrate 
future climate information into their day-to-day work. ASAP 
members have integrated updated rain data into rural and urban 
runoff models to better understand the impact of climate change 
on sensitive ecosystems like Saginaw Bay. Our members built a 
regional climate collaborative in southeast Florida to share 
climate information and reach consensus on planning and design 
standards for an economically and ecologically interconnected 
region.
     Adaptation professionals worked with public health 
officials in Illinois and States across the Midwest to 
integrate relevant climate information into known public health 
concerns, developing climate health impact reports to help 
States and communities prevent the worst impacts from climate 
change being recognized.
     And finally, ASAP members are working today with 
corporations in pushing international institutions to consider 
how community resilience and equity can be part of public 
disclosure recommendations and couple corporate and community 
solutions.
     In order for climate adaptation and resilience to be 
successful, we need the Federal Government to play a critical 
role in the development and dissemination of locally relevant 
climate data and information. However, it does not stop there. 
Climate change adaptation is a rapidly growing and innovative 
professional practice. To grow this profession and industry, we 
need to better understand the needs of the existing workforce 
and provide education and technical support to train people to 
do this important work. The climate adaptation profession is 
standardizing its values and practices in new adaptation 
programs, including a Federal climate service should align with 
these field-spanning standards.
     There are strong networks in place across tribes at 
national, regional, and metropolitan levels, which are vehicles 
for disseminating best practice, providing peer support, and 
building regional governance strategies to support adaptation 
and mitigation policy and practice. These same networks must 
inform the design of a new climate service and be vehicles for 
delivering information, service, grants, and other program 
elements.
     A robust climate adaptation and resilience marketplace is 
emerging, and there are important roles for the Federal 
agencies and programs to play to ensure service providers and 
service seekers from all economic and racial backgrounds have 
access to the same high-quality, actionable climate data and 
information.
     So I'm heartened by the renewed energy and enthusiasm of 
this Committee and the whole Biden-Harris Administration to 
address the impact of climate change on people across the 
United States. And while I'm heartened with this new 
enthusiasm, I'll close today with a request that that 
enthusiasm for action be met with earnest intention and effort 
to learn what's needed to accelerate action from the adaptation 
professionals working on this topic every day and from the 
communities actively employing adaptation and resilience 
strategies to combat the dire impacts of climate change.
     At ASAP, it's all about the people, the people in the 
communities that we serve and the professionals of today and 
tomorrow who are seeking to make our country more resilient. 
Thank you.
     [The prepared statement of Ms. Gibbons follows:]
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     Chairwoman Sherrill. Wow, you ended right on the dot. That 
does my military heart good.
     OK. Next, we have Dr. Basara.

         TESTIMONY OF DR. JEFFREY B. BASARA, DIRECTOR,

       KESSLER ATMOSPHERIC AND ECOLOGICAL FIELD STATION,

                 EXECUTIVE ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR,

             HYDROLOGY AND WATER SECURITY PROGRAM,

                     UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA

     Dr. Basara. Good morning, Subcommittee Chair Sherrill, 
Subcommittee Ranking Member Bice, Committee Ranking Member 
Lucas, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for the honor 
and privilege of testifying today. I'm also grateful to both 
the majority and minority staff, along with Dr. Kelvin 
Droegemeier, for their insight and assistance in preparing for 
this Subcommittee hearing. While I am not speaking directly on 
behalf of the University of Oklahoma, I am testifying today in 
my roles as an academic, as a researcher, as an administrator, 
a teacher, and advisor of matters of science related to 
weather, climate, water, and ecosystems.
     And this topic of climate services is critically important 
and relevant across the spectrum of socioeconomic sectors that 
form the foundation of the United States. Weather and climate 
is one of the truly few processes that impact every human. In 
my career I've seen firsthand how the collection and 
dissemination of weather and climate information has a tangible 
impact on the citizens we serve spanning all communities, 
urban, rural, and everyone in between.
     As an example, because of my research and associated 
efforts in the Great Plains of the United States, I have been 
able to directly engage agriculture producers through a variety 
of onsite and virtual workshops and events. Typically, I focus 
on education related to the topics of drought excessive 
precipitation, and I share the latest science that helps us to 
understand the development and evolution of these topics, 
especially as related to the area of the Great Plains, and 
specifically to agriculture.
     Inevitably, my first question from the audience, 
regardless of time of year or location, is always along a 
consistent theme. What will the conditions be 2, 4, 6 months 
from now? In other words, they want to know what the weather 
and climate conditions can be expected in the foreseeable 
future because that impacts local productivity and along with 
overall market demand. And answering that question is a 
critical challenge given the many weather and climate processes 
that play a role in impacting local, regional, and national 
communities within that window of time.
     We've all seen the impacts of severe weather, landfalling 
hurricanes, excessive rainfall, flooding, drought, heat waves, 
and even more recently, extended cold snaps. The cost of 
extreme events have been steadily increasing in terms of 
billion-dollar events in the United States. In 2020 alone, we 
saw as a country 22 events with a price tag from these events 
alone of nearly $100 billion.
     These large events capture the bulk of the attention, but 
local communities and their end-users are often impacted in 
subtle ways that are also significant. I was reading today in 
the Chicago Tribune and Jeff Kirwan, who is on the Board of 
Directors for the Illinois Farm Bureau, is quoted as saying 
that we do see more severe--we do seem to see more severe 
weather, more dynamic rainfalls, dryer spells. He continued 
that the future, when you look at it--look into that crystal 
ball, is a whole bunch of uncertainty. That's their story. And 
here and at the same time in Oklahoma today agricultural 
producers are walking their fields, are in the process of 
determining what the impact of a late-season freeze just this 
morning means to their 2021 livelihoods.
     The United States is a key global contributor of weather 
and climate data collection through a variety of observing 
systems on the ground and spaceborne. Such observations serve 
as the backbone for data sets used to determine past, present, 
and future states of weather and climate processes from local 
to global scales. And as such, these data sets are associated 
with applications that are inherently valuable to end-users 
across a wide spectrum of socioeconomic sectors here in the 
United States and around the world. However, we need Federal 
support to provide this information in a way that strongly 
considers the perspective of the end-users involved.
     Certainly, it all begins with maintaining support and 
expanded support of our environmental data collection efforts 
at all levels, especially at the Federal level. We also need to 
identify gaps and resources while strengthening support for the 
existing web of Federal to State to local community connections 
that serve to disseminate critical climate information to end-
users. Finally, timing and trust matter. What we provide must 
be trustworthy. Otherwise, it is of limited to no value to our 
end-users.
     In closing, we continue to face significant looming 
challenges as related to weather and climate in the United 
States, and I sincerely appreciate the desire of the 
Subcommittee to address this challenge. At the same time, we 
have local, State, and Federal capacity to tackle these 
challenges, and that's an opportunity to impact the lives and 
livelihoods of our end-users and the stakeholders from our 
local to our global communities.
     Thank you very much. I look forward to your questions.
     [The prepared statement of Dr. Basara follows:]
     
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     Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you. And our final witness 
today is Ms. Russell.

             TESTIMONY OF MS. LIZ WILLIAMS RUSSELL,

               CLIMATE JUSTICE PROGRAM DIRECTOR,

                    FOUNDATION FOR LOUISIANA

     Ms. Russell. Chairwoman Sherrill, Ranking Members Bice and 
Lucas, and Members of the Subcommittee and Committee, thank you 
for the opportunity to testify regarding the need for a 
strengthened Federal role in addressing climate change.
     I encourage thoughtful investment and provision of 
authority for coordinated risk information and climate services 
that center the needs of the Nation's frontline communities 
while creating equitable and sustainable pathways to 
holistically address climate impacts. We must enhance and 
develop replicable and scalable approaches while building 
generational capacity for long-term positive change.
     I'm the Climate Justice Program Director from the 
Foundation for Louisiana. We are a catalyst for justice. FFL 
invests in communities and ideas, builds partnerships, and 
transforms policies and systems for an equitable, stronger 
Louisiana.
     Louisiana is on the frontlines of climate change and is 
necessarily developing solutions to address the climate crisis 
both through adaptation and emissions mitigation measures. 
Louisiana has lost over 2,000 square miles of land since the 
1930's. Since 2005, every one of our 64 parishes has been under 
at least one if not four, five, or six Federal flood 
declarations. Residents with resources are moving to areas they 
perceive as higher and safer grounds, shifting local tax 
revenue and influencing rippling climate impacts in our 
communities.
     Within areas losing population amidst depreciating 
property values and loss of amenities, we see a decline in 
ability to maintain social services and lost capacity to invest 
in existing and new infrastructure to support communities or 
mitigate risk. In areas gaining population, schools and traffic 
swell while new development expands without regard for sea 
level rise and increasing flood risk. These are mere entry 
points into a dialog of climate impacts already being faced by 
our communities.
     Without strategic and intentional action, climate change 
and our institutional responses to it will exacerbate 
inequities. Drawing on my experiences and those of communities 
I serve in Louisiana, I believe specific items need to be 
center of focus for Federal resources and action. In Louisiana 
and elsewhere, access to localized information and technical 
assistance varies dramatically across jurisdictions. This 
access is dependent on local revenue streams and socioeconomic 
conditions with a tendency to manifest institutionalized 
disparities as variations in local capacity to address 
challenges or create opportunities. Each time a seemingly 
helpful government official shows up to share projections of a 
given existential crisis, residents and constituencies without 
the financial means to address those calamities can often feel 
increasingly helpless.
     Created by FFL, LEAD the Coast is a comprehensive 
leadership, education, and advocacy development program 
designed to equip resident leaders with tools they need for 
effective civic engagement, increasing the capacity of local 
people and institutions most impacted by climate change. 
Replicated nationally and supported at the Federal level, a 
similar program would allow prioritization and investment in 
the places that have seen systematic underinvestment and ensure 
any information regarding climate hazards brought to 
constituents is presented alongside tangible pathways to 
actually tackle the risks, grow practices that center the 
expertise of communities as leaders, designers, and 
decisionmakers to cultivate innovative and sustained response 
to this generational challenge.
     When considering the siting of future investments to 
reduce risk and improve adaptive capacity for communities, many 
Federal agencies utilize cost-benefit analyses that rely 
heavily on racialized real estate valuation practices that 
improperly tip the scales regarding who experiences the costs 
and the benefits. Across Federal agencies, replace metrics that 
exacerbate the existing imbalance of government resource 
distribution; prioritize marginalized communities, and ensure 
that Federal projects and policies illustrate government 
follow-through.
     Agencies most familiar with climate change and impacts 
don't systematically engage with agencies whose assets, 
programming, and investment decisions might be relevant. 
Improve direct communication, coordination, and collaboration 
between data and modeling entities and those who provide 
services to communities and government. Develop a structure of 
staffing, funding, and decisionmaking authority so that 
cooperation is iterative and ongoing, evolving with experience 
of impacts on the ground.
     I'm from New Orleans, and my family is spread across south 
Louisiana. My roots here engender a passion and a commitment to 
defend and champion the places I love. The evolving climate 
impacts are real and personal and vast. Residents from across 
the political spectrum acknowledge ongoing climate change, and 
still, few Americans understand the depth and breadth of 
climate impacts to everything we care about. Climate change is 
not a future scenario here. I encourage you to advance efforts 
and investments that treat your constituents with dignity and 
acknowledged the humanity in all of us.
     I appreciate this opportunity to speak with you today. 
Thank you for your time. I look forward to your questions.
     [The prepared statement of Ms. Russell follows:]
     
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     Chairwoman Sherrill. Well, thank you very much. Thank you 
to all of our witnesses.
     Before we proceed, I'd like to bring the Subcommittee's 
attention to 12 letters for the record. These letters express 
support for improved investment in and coordination of Federal 
climate services. The letters represent the broad 
constituencies urging Federal action on this issue, including 
global change research organizations, private-sector providers 
of climate services, the adaptation practitioner community, and 
local leaders that focus on climate adaptation and mitigation.
     Without objection, I am placing these documents in the 
record.
     At this point, we will begin our first round of questions. 
I recognize myself for 5 minutes.
     So to begin, Federal and non-Federal organizations are 
already providing on-the-ground technical assistance and tools 
to help communities understand and act on their climate risk. 
For example, New Jersey is supported by the Consortium on Risk 
in the urban Northeast, which is one of NOAA's 11 Regional 
Integrated Sciences and Assessment centers. We're also lucky to 
have access to the State-funded New Jersey Climate Change 
Resource Center at Rutgers, which provides flood maps and 
visualizations of climate risks to infrastructure and critical 
assets across New Jersey.
     Can each of the witnesses discuss the fragmented nature of 
the available tools and technical assistance to local 
decisionmakers? What is the Federal Government's role in 
coordinating diverse services across regions and sectors so 
that key constituencies know where to go to get the information 
they need?
     Ms. Gibbons. I'd be happy to--oh, sorry. Sorry. Richard, 
do you want to start?
     Dr. Moss. Well, I can just offer maybe a little bit of a 
description of the landscape that helps to explain the 
diversity of sources and why it can be confusing. You know, you 
have a range of Federal agencies, not just NOAA, that provide a 
lot of climate-related information and modeling. You have 11 
NOAA RISAs, eight Department of Interior Climate Adaptation 
Science Centers (CASC), and eight USDA (Department of 
Agriculture) Climate Hubs. In addition, there's a series of 
international activities like the World Climate Research 
Program, which is perhaps the most definitive in developing the 
Coupled Model Intercomparison Project, which is now in its 
sixth phase, that serves as a critical source of all of the 
kind of climate scenario information that people analyze. A 
variety of NGO's also provide climate information through 
activities like the American Geophysical Union's Thriving Earth 
Exchange. And then there are academic centers and partnerships, 
and finally, private-sector firms.
     Now, when I was recently on a leave of absence and working 
in New York, one of the first questions I was asked when I 
arrived and started working on my project was by State agencies 
who were interested in knowing what criteria could they use to 
evaluate different proposals for climate services or to decide 
which data sets that they should use. And I'll just say based 
on that experience, just as the anecdote in New York, there is 
a lot of confusion among users about where to turn. And I think 
that this is in fact one of the things that we hope a more 
unified Federal effort that doesn't replace or try to set up a 
single source for all information but that serves as a point of 
contact and helps direct people to the appropriate information 
would be an excellent choice. It's just that there's no one 
model that captures all features of the Earth system or that in 
all places can provide the right information. The average 
hottest and driest model is not the hottest and driest model 
everywhere. There's a lot of variability. And so you can't just 
pick one model and hope that it's going to do the job.
     Ms. Gibbons. I would just respond to your question 
regarding the user perspective. And I think that Richard did a 
fine job articulating the different agencies. And I should say 
that none of these agencies and their programs are covering the 
same jurisdictions at the same time in the same way, so the 11 
RISAs, the eight CASCs, the way that the EPA (Environmental 
Protection Agency) regions and FEMA (Federal Emergency 
Management Agency) regions, each treat the country as a 
patchwork, and it's very confusing for people from the ground 
up to look at that patchwork and then identify what is the 
pathway to service.
     And so users often will end up pursuing a pathway to 
information based on what they might have already experienced. 
If they've worked with HUD (Housing and Urban Development), 
they try to go through HUD. If they've had experience with NOAA 
through a RISA, they go to the RISA. If they have experience 
with the EPA through consent decrees or other kind of 
functions, they go to EPA. And because of that, it's important 
that we have coordination across the Federal agencies so that 
we're all receiving the same information. I think it also makes 
the case for a Federal system to coordinate service so that it 
isn't just on an individual agency to touch with somebody else 
but there's an entity that is ensuring that coordination takes 
place so that people can experience a--kind of a no-wrong-door 
policy but then has a strong governance to ensure in fact when 
you come through that door you're going to reach someone who 
can connect you to what you need.
     Chairwoman Sherrill. Well, thank you very much. Are there 
currently enough Federal resources dedicated to working with 
communities to ensure they have the climate risk information 
they need? So it sounds like we've talked a little bit about 
the coordination problem, but beyond that, are there enough 
Federal resources available, simply not coordinated well?
     Ms. Gibbons. No. No.
     Dr. Moss. Could I----
     Ms. Gibbons. Go ahead.
     Dr. Moss. I was just going to ask for just one 
clarification. When you say resources, Chairwoman Sherrill, do 
you mean financial resources or are you talking about 
information resources or technical support or all of it?
     Chairwoman Sherrill. So I'm talking about all of the 
above. It sounds that we have quite a few resources dedicated 
to this. There seems to be a coordination problem. Is there, 
beyond a coordination problem, also a resource problem?
     Dr. Moss. Yes. I would say so, and I'll be very brief so 
others can also add their points of view. But we simply don't 
have enough resources to do the kind of customization that we 
need to make the data relevant at local levels. In addition, 
there simply is not enough support to provide technical support 
for communities in understanding how this information relates 
to the problems that they have or the things that they're 
trying to solve. You can get data on temperature and 
precipitation, but what does it actually mean for how you might 
have to change your cropping cycles to identify where things 
are beginning to flood? So there's also not the technical 
support necessary, so we definitely need more resources for all 
those things.
     Chairwoman Sherrill. And I apologize, it looks like my 
clock has expired. I wasn't keeping track about as well as I 
should have as the Chair, so I'm going to move on to our 
Ranking Member, Ms. Bice. Do you have questions for the panel?
     Ms. Bice. Thank you, Madam Chair.
     Dr. Basara, you said during your time with the Oklahoma 
Climatological Survey that you saw firsthand how the collection 
and dissemination of weather and climate information has a 
tangible impact on the citizens spanning all communities. Being 
from Oklahoma myself, I want to dive into this a bit more. 
Besides the obvious alerting people of an incoming tornado, 
which is important in Oklahoma, how do people, agencies, and 
services use this climate information?
     Dr. Basara. Well, certainly while tornadoes are an 
important part of our local weather and climate extremes, 
actually, it's, you know, drought and too much precipitation 
actually probably have more of an impactful role in the broad 
scheme of things when we consider the impact of weather and 
climate on our State.
     And I think in my perspective working both within the 
Oklahoma Climatological Survey and also working in the capacity 
of an academic and working with end-users and especially 
agriculture producers, the bottom line is, you know, especially 
in our rural communities, this is a--climate services are 
actually a very important component of that. And there's a link 
actually between what happens at the Federal level down to the 
State level, and we work--you know, I'm not a land-grant 
university, but we have ag extension agents that actually work 
on the ground with agriculture producers, and there's an 
inherent link between all of those that are--that's vital terms 
of providing information that makes decisionmaking possible at 
that level.
     The bottom line is these individuals want to know whether 
climate information to make real decisions that affect their 
livelihood and affect the commerce of the region. And so having 
that is important, and the linkages in that chain are 
important. And I just heard just yesterday of the need for 
education in terms of getting more educated people that 
understand the multidisciplinary aspects of weather, climate, 
agriculture into a position where they can help end-users make 
those informed decisions.
     Ms. Bice. Well, and you characterize a community using 
weather and climate information better than--or, I'm sorry, 
would you characterize one community using weather and climate 
information better than others? Obviously, a farmer is more 
likely to know about the Mesonet capabilities than others, but 
are there other people that are using this information 
regionally that you've identified?
     Dr. Basara. Oh, sure. I've seen the broad spectrum. And, 
for example, we've had--we had a State representative one time 
who wanted weather and climate information to make sure that 
the local contractor that was pouring his foundation did so 
when the temperatures weren't at too cold of a level, right? I 
mean, it gets down into the nitty-gritty of all the details in 
terms of being able to make real decisions about weather and 
climate. And so certainly the rural communities benefit, but 
our urban communities benefit as well. And we need to have 
better decisionmaking that goes on there in terms of urban 
planning, the dissemination and redistribution of water during 
excessive precipitation events. All of that comes into play, 
and that's where the linkages from local to Federal are really 
important in providing a consistent theme.
     I want to appreciate--or send my appreciation to the other 
panel members who have mentioned this. A consistent theme is 
important in establishing trust and trustworthy information 
that moves from one end of that spectrum to the other. And it 
can move both ways, and so we have to keep that dialog open, 
available, and that's where the people are involved and that's 
what's really important.
     Ms. Bice. I'll just open this question up for any of the 
panelists here. You know, it seems that technology and 
innovation seems to be something that would be helpful in these 
scenarios. Certainly 30 or 40 years ago it was very difficult 
to identify a tornado coming through Oklahoma. Now you have 
plenty of warning or you least have some heads up that there's 
going to be issues. Talk a little bit about technology and how 
that can improve forecasting and help communities as we see 
some of these extreme weather conditions?
     Dr. Basara. Well, just real quickly, I'll say that the 
next generation of agricultural producers are more tech savvy 
than others. Most all of them have one of these, right, have a 
phone, and they are using real-time weather and climate 
information literally from the machinery that they are using in 
the fields to make decisions sometimes. And I think that that--
there is a critical role in providing information that can be 
distributed across platforms that can be put literally into the 
hands of end-users wherever they're at.
     Ms. Bice. So investment is important?
     Dr. Basara. Yes, absolutely.
     Ms. Russell. I'll jump in here as well. Thanks for the 
question, Representative Bice. I would say that we have 
increasingly utilized the tools and developed the tools to look 
at immediate climate disasters, both acute and chronic, but we 
do not have the technology to visualize the other impacts that 
those acute and chronic disasters cause to economic 
opportunity, job access, transportation systems, healthcare 
access, healthcare facilities, schools, on and on and on. And 
so for me the investment really needs to be to develop and 
bridge those disaster acute or chronic systems into the other 
sectors that haven't begun to plan for a future of climate 
impacts.
     Ms. Bice. Thank you.
     Ms. Russell. Thank you.
     Ms. Bice. And, Madam Chair, I yield back.
     Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you so much. Now, I'll 
recognize the Ranking Member of the Full Committee, Mr. Lucas, 
for five minutes.
     Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Madam Chair.
     Dr. Basara, I liked your priority suggestion that we need 
to increase our efforts in engaging and considering the needs 
of end-users because if an end-user like an ag producer, as 
we've been discussing, doesn't find the provided data 
beneficial, it won't be used and ultimately becomes a waste of 
time and money. We can't just assume that someone in the lab 
knows exactly what someone in the field wants.
     You mentioned that it was through research programs like 
USDA's Great Plains Grazing Project that you've been able to 
directly engage thousands of ag producers and end-users in 
recent years. While you might not have been directly affiliated 
with one, could you talk about your experience there and 
compare it with how extension programs succeed in connecting 
with end-users?
     Dr. Basara. Yes, absolutely. So it's--the Great Plains 
Grazing Project actually had extension from both Oklahoma and 
Kansas involved, so I worked with both teams. And that's how I 
ended up being connected with these end-users in the first 
place. It was through their extension programs, which directly 
brought me into places--for example, and I learned this a long 
time ago, don't ever wear a tie if you're going to be talking 
about weather and climate at a pole barn just outside of 
Woodward, Oklahoma, right? And that is--helps establish trust 
in the community, but that's also what these extension agencies 
that do exist and that ties in the university systems as well 
as the statewide systems, and that's where we get into this web 
of infrastructure that already exists that is viable and does 
have capacity, needs some strength and Federal support, but it 
does have capacity already built within it to engage with those 
individuals and to really establish a dialog and a back-and-
forth that is vital and important to--in solving these big 
challenges that we deal with.
     Mr. Lucas. Dr. Basara, the Association of Public and Land-
Grant Universities recently reported that 69 percent of the 
buildings at land-grant universities are more than 25 years old 
and need urgent upgrades to remain safe and useful. As I'm sure 
you know, agriculture, food, and related industries contribute 
$1.1 trillion to the American economy and supports about 22 
million jobs I should say. And these contributions are made 
possible by the cutting-edge innovation taking place through 
research, education, and extension programs at colleges and 
schools of agriculture like your employer, the University of 
Oklahoma and my alma mater, Oklahoma State University.
     So, Dr. Basara, I want to hear from you with all the 
facilities you've interacted with and worked at, have you seen 
this deferred maintenance backlog? Can you talk about what new 
and upgraded infrastructure and facilities means for attracting 
and training the next generation of scientific community?
     Dr. Basara. Yes, so your point is very relevant. So I've 
worked at both Federal agencies, you know, the great--the 
Grazinglands Research Laboratories in El Reno, Oklahoma, or the 
High Plains Research lab. That's a USDA facility and--just 
outside of Amarillo and Bushland but also at the university 
settings. And let's be honest. Many of those buildings that are 
there that are being utilized right now and the infrastructure 
is dated.
     And I can speak to also here at the University of Oklahoma 
I'm in two departments. We have had discussions in Civil 
Engineering and Environmental Sciences that our lab space all 
needs to be renovated in order to really attract good students, 
in order to do the work that we need. Now, at the same time, I 
work in a fabulous, fantastic facility that's new, that is a 
resource for many, and that's the National Weather Center here 
at--on the campus of the University of Oklahoma. And I can tell 
you without question that we can recruit students to--that 
become the next generation of scientists that are solving 
problems, we can recruit students to this facility just because 
of the facility. They want to see the facility, they want the 
resources that are available.
     And so the infrastructure does matter in terms of 
producing the science, whether it's in a Federal lab or at a 
university setting, and I think that, you know, investments 
into infrastructure and into facilities does have a tangible 
role in generating the next generation of scientists that are 
going to be able to handle and tackle these big problems that 
we are facing.
     Mr. Lucas. And if I seem like a big proponent of the land 
grants, you have to appreciate the fact that I find it to be 
one of the great accomplishments in this country that when 
President Lincoln signed the Morrell Act of 1862, it was the 
first time you didn't have to be a person of wealth to attend a 
university in the world. And we followed that with the 1890's 
for African Americans. We followed that with the 1894 for 
Native Americans. Investing in our legacy pieces that have 
delivered such accomplishments is just something we need to 
focus on.
     With that, Madam Chair, thank you for the hearing, and I 
yield back the balance of my time.
     Chairwoman Sherrill. Thank you, Ranking Member Lucas.
     So now I'm going to defer to Committee Counsel for the 
order of recognition.
     Staff. Ms. Bonamici is next.
     Ms. Bonamici. Thank you so much. Thank you, Chair 
Sherrill, the Committee Ranking Member Lucas, thank you. 
Welcome to Ranking Member Bice. Oklahoma has been well-
represented on this Subcommittee when I first joined. It also 
included then Representative, later NASA Administrator Jim 
Bridenstine. Thank you especially to all the witnesses for your 
expertise.
     Climate science is an abstract. It informs the decisions 
our constituents across the country make every day after the 
previous Administration attempted to minimize the findings of 
the Fourth National Climate Assessment, including by releasing 
it over a holiday weekend. I would just like to amplify its 
importance by sharing one finding on Twitter every day for six 
weeks.
     And what was interesting was the response. I heard from 
local elected leaders, tribes, city planners, geologists, 
engineers, and they all appreciated, No. 1, the regional focus, 
which included an entire chapter specific to the Pacific 
Northwest, and they also said they desperately needed more 
climate data in a format that could be easily understood and 
that is accessible to local decisionmakers on the ground.
     Last year, I joined my colleagues on the Select Committee 
on the Climate Crisis. We have Mr. Casten as well serving on 
the Select Committee. We released our Comprehensive Climate 
Action Plan, and it includes provisions to strengthen the NCA 
and other climate reports, but it also includes a climate risk 
information service to develop localized climate risk 
information, which will include projections on floods, 
wildfires, and other natural disasters. This approach will 
better inform the development of resilience codes, 
specifications, standards for our local communities.
     Now I'm working to turn this recommendation into a 
standalone bill, and I look forward to working with all of you 
and soliciting your feedback. And I want to start with Dr. 
Moss. In your testimony you noted that no single data set or 
method is best available across all regions of the country, so 
how can Congress better support the synthesis of existing 
Federal research and assessments on climate risks and also 
identify gaps to address the needs of our localities? And is 
USGCRP the best entity to do this work and lead a Federal 
climate service?
     Dr. Moss. Great, thank you for the question. It's a very 
central question, Congresswoman. And the point that you've made 
is I don't think that it is a single-agency issue. I don't 
think you can do it with existing authorities even in the 
interagency process. I think you will have to act to establish 
some kind of a new authority that has sufficient resources and 
clout to work better across the agencies. You know, I think it 
can work.
     The issue with the U.S. Global Change Research Program is 
the R, the research. It's, of course, the foundation for what 
we need, but many of you are familiar with the phrase research 
to operations. It's a continuum. Research is about creating 
knowledge. Operations is about taking knowledge that we're 
pretty confident in and using it. USGCRP agencies feel that 
they're research agencies, and so I think that we really need 
much more on the operations side in order to do this kind of 
locally relevant synthesis and application.
     Ms. Bonamici. Well, thank you, Dr. Moss. And that leads me 
to my next question. You note the need for improved technical 
assistance. You also highlighted the need for data and 
information to be findable and accessible. So how can we 
structure these opportunities to be more accessible, especially 
to frontline communities?
     Dr. Moss. Yes, thank you. Again, I think that underserved 
communities are going to need funding and capacity even to 
participate in developing proposals, for example, for funding. 
I note that several States are beginning to offer funding for 
resilience building, and there's going to be Federal funding 
for resilience building. Even to put together the proposal 
requires access to funding and to capacity that these groups 
don't have.
     We have a proposal in. We're waiting to hear back from it 
to look at a number of specific communities across three States 
to identify what are the capacities that they lack and then to 
try to bring that knowledge forward to inform Federal programs 
like FEMA and others that provide the sort of help to 
communities to provide the right kind of support and resources.
     Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. In my remaining half a minute, 
Ms. Gibbons, is there anything you can add to that about making 
the information and data more accessible, particularly----
     Ms. Gibbons. Yes.
     Ms. Bonamici [continuing]. To the frontline communities?
     Ms. Gibbons. And I think the--your point about NCA3 having 
really had a communication platform and NCA4 not having one is 
really critical. And I talk about that in my full testimony. So 
I think that when we create these products, it's not just 
enough to have a well-researched report and then put it on the 
shelf and hope somebody comes and finds it to read. We need to 
have developed reports that are based on the priorities that 
exist in communities and then bringing climate information into 
those priorities in a way that becomes meaningful for them and 
engages the communities from the research to the release to the 
implementation of action that follows.
     Ms. Bonamici. Absolutely. I see a lot of nodding heads. 
And my time is expired, and I yield back the balance of my 
time. Thank you.
     Staff. Mr. Feenstra is next.
     Mr. Feenstra. Thank you, Chair Sherrill and Ranking Member 
Bice. Thank you to each of the witnesses for their testimony 
and sharing their extensive research and opinions with us.
     While researchers and scientists have worked hard to 
gather and make climate data available to the public, there is 
a need to ensure that data is easy to gather and interpreted 
for those who need it. While I disagree that the new Federal 
climate office is the most efficient and resourceful solution, 
I do agree that the Federal system can be improved.
     Dr. Basara, when dealing with the climate and weather, 
accurate information is critical. Last year, my home State 
suffered a very serious derecho, which you mentioned in your 
testimony. That took the lives of Iowans and wiped out millions 
of acres of cropland and infrastructure. Without the timely 
weather alerts, even more lives could have been lost and more 
damage done. It's just as important that we have accuracy in 
weather detection for smaller storms, as they can cause serious 
damage, and time preparation is at a premium.
     The Department of Defense shared a report with Congress in 
2019 which went into detail on how obstructions like buildings 
can cause gaps in weather radar, potentially hiding the 
emergence of tornadoes or making it look like flooding where it 
is not necessarily there. Are you familiar with this 
phenomenon, and can you explain its impact to the Committee?
     Dr. Basara. I am familiar with the phenomenon. We actually 
have a challenge with that here in Oklahoma as well with one of 
our own operational weather radars in parts of northwest 
Oklahoma. And any obstruction, any building that is put in the 
way of basically one of these radars basically acts as a--what 
we call beam blockage. You can't see accurately what's on the 
other side of that structure. So that is a very important 
issue. It's a very important role in terms of when we cite our 
infrastructure in terms of weather and climate, you know, 
resources, that they need to be placed and they need to be 
maintained in a place where they can provide reliable 
information.
     And certainly in the case of weather radar, this is a 
critical issue and is one issue that we need to address because 
in order to protect lives and property--and that is what our 
National Weather Service does and the many people that work 
within that agency--in order to do that effectively, they have 
to have tools that are effective.
     Mr. Feenstra. Yes, I agree with that 100 percent. So how 
can we mitigate--you can't mitigate--the buildings are already 
up. I understand that. We have a lot of other things that are 
going up in a fast pace, and windmills are a great thing and 
stuff like this, but how can we move forward? Is there a way 
that we can look at things before they get put up and saying, 
hey, this is going to be a problem? Maybe a building or 
windmill, whatever it might be, shouldn't be built in this 
location, this area because it might impede what we're doing?
     Dr. Basara. Progress is a challenge in some ways. And in 
my past life with the Oklahoma Climatological Survey and the 
Oklahoma Mesonet I helped install stations. That's what we did. 
And, you know, property changes from time to time, and adjacent 
property changes. You may have a great spot, but the next owner 
changes, you know, that land is sold, and somebody else has a 
different vision for that product.
     I--preservation in terms of available space around our 
resources is something that we should be considering, and 
certainly we can look at the--at any particular site and 
identify what the challenges might be and sort of a sphere of 
influence of what needs to be, you know, kind of homogenous or 
keep progress away just a little bit in order to maintain the 
accuracy and the viability of the infrastructure that's in 
place. So yes, we can do that.
     At the same time, we have a lot of private land, and that 
private land, you know, exchanges hands from time to time and 
that poses a logistical challenge. But I--there are resources 
that we can do, and we certainly--there's actions that we can 
take, but there's also the--you know, the private portion of 
this, and that can't be neglected either.
     Mr. Feenstra. Yes, I got about 30 seconds left. Quickly, 
do you see any technology moving forward that will better 
initiate, to see things that--at a higher level, to see things 
that are potentially happening that we can communicate quicker 
and at a faster level? As storms move across the Midwest, we 
see it coming, but we really can't identify some of the big 
issues.
     Dr. Basara. I'll speak real quickly to the fact that, you, 
I'm not the expert in this but my colleagues at the university 
are. And the concept of phased array radar and being able to 
put that in place nationally would be a paradigm shift in our 
ability to observe from a radar perspective the--any critical 
and significant weather that may be happening at any given 
location. So I think that would be at the top of my list, 
especially from a radar standpoint.
     Mr. Feenstra. Thank you so much, and I yield back.
     Staff. Mr. Kildee is next.
     Mr. Kildee. Thank you, and thank you, Chairwoman Sherrill, 
for holding this hearing and for the witnesses for bringing 
their really important and unique perspectives.
     I want to go in a slightly different direction for a 
moment and talk about maybe some of the support that 
communities can get in taking meaningful action to deal with 
issues around climate. Before I was in Congress I was in local 
government for a really long time. For a good period of time I 
was the county treasurer. And in that particular role I focused 
a lot of my energy and time on how to help with sustainable 
development in my region by breathing life into the stress of 
vacant and abandoned properties in the urban core on the belief 
that while there's all sorts of reason to do that in terms of 
equity and development--I have to admit that I have had some 
frustration that a focus on reusing urban land is often looked 
at policy of urbanism when the truth of the matter is there's 
development pressure that will cause us to continue to grow the 
footprint of the built environment, which contributes to 
climate change in the sense--and it's a marginal impact, but it 
has an impact because the bigger the footprint of our built 
environment, the more we generate in terms of greenhouse gases 
and it's not a sustainable long-term approach. And it leaves a 
lot of communities behind. And so we have this sort of once-in-
a-generation opportunity ahead of us through this 
infrastructure package to try to find ways to breathe life into 
the existing built environment where we've already made 
substantial investments in infrastructure and other aspects of 
civil society.
     And so I'd like to get some thinking from the panel and 
maybe most specifically Ms. Gibbons, who I know has, first of 
all, connection to my home State obviously, but also as a 
person focused on urban planning might have some thoughts on 
how research and knowledge that could be developed at the 
Federal level, could be shared, for example, with communities 
that operate land banks that are in the business of trying to 
contain development pressure from eating up more of our built 
environment, taking up green fields and farmland, and reuse 
existing land. Is there--do you have thoughts on that subject, 
and is there a way that you think the Federal Government 
through its research capacity could support some of that? I 
have a bill, a bipartisan bill to establish a national land 
bank network to do this in part, but I wonder if you have 
thoughts on the knowledge that might be developed and shared to 
support some of this effort.
     Ms. Gibbons. I think that a national land bank is 
something that could be an incredible asset to the work that 
we're doing in community resilience across the country. I 
certainly think that the Genesee Land Bank Authority that has 
served Flint and served your district so well is a model for 
the way partnerships can emerge between land banks and 
municipalities.
     I actually worked in 2012 on integrating adaptation and 
resilient strategies into the Imagine Flint plan, and we looked 
at what were the priorities of the city and ways in which we 
might think about the vacant spaces in Flint and then prepare 
to maintain some of them to reuse some of them to consolidate 
residential spaces. And we did that through a really terrific 
engagement program that was being run in the city.
     All of that went off the table when the water crisis 
broke, and we had to refocus our attention on the equity and 
justice crisis that was ahead of us. And this is an example of 
where we can't take one piece of work and separate it from the 
others. We have to be prepared for communities to address 
whatever the crisis is that comes up. I've recently been back 
in Flint rebirthing that plan and talking about adaptation 
strategies again.
     I point this out because here is a place where we have 
been thinking about that question but it's not happening in all 
communities. It goes back to this problem, this patchwork quilt 
of services that communities are receiving. In Michigan, 
Michigan State University in their extension program is doing 
tremendous adaptation and outreach work. They're doing it 
coupled with ag extension. They've been working with the MABA, 
the Michigan Agri-Business Association, as well as urban 
justice organizations, tribal groups. But we see an 
inconsistent delivery of service.
     And so I think that there is a role for the Federal 
Government to be playing to assess what is taking place and do 
a really thorough assessment. Where is adaptation and 
resilience happening? Where are there gaps? And who is going to 
fill those gaps? Is it going to be a private service provider, 
or is it someplace that we need to step in with federally 
supported resources either through our universities or through 
our Federal agencies or a new service?
     Mr. Kildee. I know I would like to have Mr. Moss respond, 
but I think I'm out of time. I appreciate that. And this is an 
important area. I appreciate the Chair holding this hearing. 
It's a subject we need to spend more time on, so thank you. I 
yield back.
     Staff. Mr. Gimenez is next.
     Mr. Gimenez. Thank you. Thanks so much. I want to thank 
our Chairwoman, Representative Sherrill, and then our Ranking 
Member Bice for holding this hearing.
     I'm interested from Mr. Basara, you talked about the 
importance of accurate information, short-term, long-term, and 
modeling. I'm really interested in modeling. I know somebody 
said that the models have wide differences and that we really 
can't point to one model. Is there a model that has been the 
most accurate that we know of in predicting short-term and then 
longer-term patterns here on Earth, especially in the United 
States?
     Dr. Basara. Well, I--first of all, I'll defer to Richard 
in terms of the global climate models in that perspective. On 
my end, we're constantly working on trying to--you know, from a 
modeling standpoint, trying to simulate the atmospheres as 
accurately as possible, especially in short terms of weather 
timescales. Is there one model that works best in all cases and 
all scenarios to forecast snow, to forecast heavy rain, to 
forecast tornadoes, to forecast any of these processes? And the 
answer to that really is no. It's not the United States versus 
the European either.
     There is--we--but we are advancing in the case--in the 
sense that we're getting more consolidation in terms of our 
understanding of physical processes, and sometimes that's 
what's really important. What's missing in our own 
understanding is we can't predict something we don't understand 
sometimes.
     And I think that there are some advancements on the 
future, especially as we get from the weather into what we call 
the subseasonal and the seasonal into what we call, you know, 
obviously the climate. In real truth we have a pretty decent 
ability to predict in the weather timescale, and certainly our 
climate models have--while it ranges, there's a lot of 
consensus. But in one of the areas of--I think of 
predictability, but we are limited. And this gets into the 
trust issue is in that 2- to 6-month window of the subseasonal 
to seasonal we don't do very well.
     Now, actually, efforts from this Committee as well have 
really spurred on resource development and research into the 
subseasonal to seasonal, and that's--I want to commend the 
Committee for that because that's a really important part of 
this whole process that we need to invest in to have better 
predictability from weather through the subseasonal to seasonal 
and into the climate scale.
     Mr. Gimenez. It looks to me that weather, that predicting 
the weather is--there's two sides of it. No. 1 is the short 
term is what's the weather going to be tomorrow, how's it going 
to affect my crops, do I have to put up my shutters, et cetera. 
I live in a hurricane-prone area. And even though we may have a 
higher-than-expected hurricane season, hurricanes are wherever 
it hits and who knows where it's going to hit. And you can't 
possibly predict that 6 months ahead of time. And so that's 
very, very difficult.
     Long-term trends, though, are also very important for us 
in order to invest in what kind of infrastructure that we're 
going to be investing in, how resilient does it have to be, 
what do we expect the long-term prospects, in an area? And so 
is there a consensus that we're heading back into an Eemian 
period that we had, say, 130,000 years ago where the 
temperatures were 2 to 4 degrees higher Celsius than they are 
today? Is that the consensus of the scientific community?
     Dr. Basara. Is that a question for me directly or for the 
panel?
     Mr. Gimenez. Yes, somebody. I just want to know. Is that 
the consensus that we're heading there? And if we're headed 
that way, then there has to be some kind of information as to 
what happened during that time and especially in the United 
States. What was the long-term impact of such a rise in 
temperatures? What were beneficial and what were not 
beneficial? Because from my understanding, the forest actually 
grew more into the northern atmosphere area, today our tundra 
were covered once by forests, and then we headed into a glacial 
period, which we are coming out of I guess. We're in a inner 
period right now. And that's information that we can use for 
the long-term so that we can have our investments more match to 
what we think are the long-term trends as a nation. And if 
there are areas that are going to be changing, how can we 
mitigate that and adapt to that as a nation?
     OK. I guess nobody can answer that either. All right. 
Thanks so much. I yield the balance of my time. Thank you.
     Staff. Mr. Casten is next.
     Mr. Casten. Thank you. Thank you to our Chair and Ranking 
Member for organizing this Committee, and many thanks to our 
witnesses.
     Dr. Moss, I'd like to start with you. Since 2013, the GAO 
has suggested that we should commit the Federal Government--we 
should limit the Federal Government's exposure by better 
managing climate risk. Two years ago they reported that we 
haven't made much progress. I serve on the Financial Services 
Committee and have been trying to draw as much attention as I 
can to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission's report on 
managing climate risk that was released last year where they 
noted in part emerging evidence suggests that lenders are 
passing along riskier mortgages to the GSEs (government-
sponsored enterprises)--that is Fannie and Freddie--in part to 
remove risk from their own books. The Federal guarantee of the 
GSEs suggest that U.S. taxpayers may ultimately be on the hook 
for pre-pandemic default risks associated with the impacts of 
physical risk on collateral values. They make similar 
observations about the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) 
as a place where the private sector has an incentive and a 
vehicle to offload their risk onto the Federal Government. I 
should note that a lot of that risk is going to affect places 
like Mr. Gimenez's district, the prior speaker.
     Dr. Moss, can you identify some of the other climate risks 
that the Federal Government is exposed to? And to the extent 
you can, what should we be most focused on right now? Which are 
the biggest hurdles?
     Dr. Moss. Well, sir, I think you've done a really 
comprehensive job of listing some of the really major risks 
that I certainly worry about when it comes to the Federal 
Government. I think that there could be huge impacts on 
financial services, on our financial structure, huge impacts on 
infrastructure when one thinks about transportation 
infrastructure and the Federal responsibilities there, the fact 
that so many airports are in fact quite near sea level along 
the coast, that there's real risks, huge amounts of our 
military infrastructure along the coasts that are going to be 
exposed to climate risks and flooding, and the list goes on.
     So I think that the Federal Government really needs a 
organized and comprehensive approach to encourage each agency 
to be assessing the vulnerabilities of its own assets and those 
of its stakeholders that they're responsible for working with 
and then bringing that information forward in a coordinated and 
consistent way in order for you and the Congress and the 
Federal Government and the Executive Office to be able to work 
together to start to get your hands around some of those risks 
because if we don't, they really are going to come back and be 
a huge drag on our national competitiveness and economic 
growth.
     Mr. Casten. Well, I want to shift to Ms. Gibbons, but just 
make an observation and maybe we can follow up afterwards that 
what is so hard is that, you know, the reason I highlighted 
those programs is that they exist where the Federal Government 
is trying to subsidize the neediest who couldn't otherwise 
afford housing or insurance. And as we think about how to 
mitigate that risk, there are some really hard equity 
questions.
     And I say that in my pivot to Ms. Gibbons because, you 
know, given your organization and your focus, I can't help but 
think about this report and any news about two weeks ago where 
they said that just eight counties in Alabama, Louisiana, and 
Florida accounted for 1/2, 1/2 of the $1.2 billion in NFIP 
claims last year. And while the effects of climate change are 
obviously global, there are very localized, specific areas that 
we know are going to bear the brunt of this.
     And when we talk about that in other countries, we 
acknowledge that it's a refugee crisis, right? When we talk 
about that in our country, we talk about it in the terms of 
adaptation because it is so hard for us to contemplate the 
alternative. And given your focus on adaptation, how would you 
suggest--leave us to deal with the politics, but how would you 
suggest that we think about that tension between adaptation and 
relocation?
     Ms. Gibbons. I'll just speak briefly. I'm sure Liz has 
other thoughts on this, too, as she's sitting in the seat in 
Louisiana. And we think about managed retreat as being part of 
a suite of adaptation strategies, and communities need to have 
the opportunity to have the information they need about their 
risk but also to explore what options are going to be possible. 
And then the Federal Government is responsible for enabling 
those options so that they can make those decisions with 
dignity.
     But if I may, I would love to have Liz respond to this.
     Ms. Russell. Yes, thanks so much, Beth.
     I would like to say that absolutely there are certain 
places where it is predominately lower-income folks who are 
developing--I mean, who own property in higher-risk areas. 
However, that is not true across the country for sure, and 
there are other places where we continue to subsidize ongoing 
development and the flood insurance program at a rate that's 
not actual and at a scale that is insurmountable.
     I would--as I mentioned in my testimony--and there's more 
detail in my written testimony--we see ongoing climate-induced 
migration already. It's not a future scenario in Louisiana. 
It's already happening. And it's the people above a certain 
income threshold who are able to make that decision, and they 
would--we call that adaptation here. It is a choice to relocate 
elsewhere. Typically, it is moving one town up or to the next 
area perceived as safer, which may or may not be.
     And so this is a point where we need more sophisticated 
risk analysis and communication and technical assistance 
capacity in those local areas to actually work with people who 
are making the decisions. We also need stronger regulation to 
prevent increased development that then we end up subsidizing 
as a Federal taxpayer and through the Federal systems both NFIP 
and through mortgages that are backed by the Federal 
Government. We have to begin to address those systems, and we 
also need to connect that challenge with the technical 
assistance and the types of mitigation activities to address 
the risks at the local level.
     I'll also say in the areas that are growing because, 
again, we have places that are already growing as well as 
losing population, we don't have the practices in place to 
consider strategically where new development should actually be 
occurring and where that ends up falling back on where those 
parishes are trying to grow their population, grow their tax 
bases, they're not regulating any of the new development that's 
occurring, and it's really critical that our Federal systems 
are stood up and actually deepened in order to acknowledge 
those variances, acknowledge where there is a local 
disincentive to talk about the risk that's in those places, and 
where we're ending up pushing back that vulnerability onto the 
American taxpayer.
     Mr. Casten. Well, thank you, and thank you to the Chair 
for allowing us a little time to get into a very comprehensive 
response. I appreciate it. I yield back.
     Staff. Mr. Crist is next. Your microphone is not on, Mr. 
Crist.
     Mr. Crist. Is that better?
     Staff. Yes, sir.
     Mr. Crist. Great, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair also, 
and thank you to the Assistant Secretary for joining us today.
     The Economic Development Administration or EDA has been 
instrumental in supporting American communities throughout the 
pandemic. I applaud your agency's dedication to fulfilling the 
mission during this time of great need. Through the American 
Rescue Plan, Congress provided $3 billion to the EDA and 
included a 25 percent set-aside for communities that have 
suffered significant economic loss in the areas of tourism, 
hospitality, and outdoor recreation industries. This set-aside 
is huge for my home State of Florida, which, as you know, is 
heavily dependent on all of these industries and has suffered 
significant economic loss due to the pandemic.
     I think I've been given the wrong material. Please hold. 
Hold on 1 second. Thank you for your indulgence, Madam 
Secretary, and for your indulgence, Madam Chair.
     My home State of Florida is very susceptible to outbreaks 
of harmful algal blooms. These outbreaks will continue to 
increase in severity and frequency as climate change warms our 
water. So the monitoring of forecasting services that NOAA 
provides are critical in helping us and local communities 
determine their risk and post warnings in a timely manner.
     Ms. Russell, can you discuss how the Federal Government 
currently provides harmful algal bloom prediction and response 
resource to coastal communities?
     Ms. Russell. Yes, so I would love to get that information 
to you. I'd be happy to follow up and have it formally inserted 
into the record, but with full transparency, algal blooms are 
not my area of expertise.
     Mr. Crist. Anybody else on the panel willing to address 
that or prepared to address that?
     OK. Well, then I think I'm done. Thank you, Madam Chair.
     Chairwoman Sherrill. Well, thank you. And algal blooms are 
something I'm deeply concerned about as well, so I'm happy to 
discuss a further hearing on that topic.
     Mr. Crist. Great.
     Chairwoman Sherrill. But before we bring the hearing to a 
close, I want to thank our witnesses for testifying before the 
Committee today. The record will remain open for two weeks for 
additional statements from the Members and for any additional 
questions the Committee may ask of the witnesses.
     The witnesses are excused, and the hearing is now 
adjourned. Thank you so much to everyone.
     [Whereupon, at 12:25 p.m., the Subcommittee was 
adjourned.]

                               Appendix I

                              ----------                              


                   Answers to Post-Hearing Questions




                   Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
Responses by Dr. Richard Moss
 [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

Responses by Ms. Beth Gibbons
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                              Appendix II

                              ----------                              


                   Additional Material for the Record




           Letters submitted by Representative Mikie Sherrill
 [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]           
           

                 Studies submitted by Ms. Beth Gibbons
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