[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



 
      POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS ON HAITI FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             March 12, 2021

                               __________

                           Serial No. 117-11

                               __________

        Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
        
        
        
        
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       


       Available:  http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://
                            docs.house.gov, 
                       or http://www.govinfo.gov
                       
                       
                       
                           ______                       


             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
43-702 PDF            WASHINGTON : 2021                        
                       
                       

                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                  GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York, Chairman

BRAD SHERMAN, California             MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking 
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey                  Member
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia         CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida          STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
KAREN BASS, California               JOE WILSON, South Carolina
WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts       SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island        DARRELL ISSA, California
AMI BERA, California                 ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas                LEE ZELDIN, New York
DINA TITUS, Nevada                   ANN WAGNER, Missouri
TED LIEU, California                 BRIAN MAST, Florida
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania             BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota             KEN BUCK, Colorado
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota                TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
COLIN ALLRED, Texas                  MARK GREEN, Tennessee
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan                 ANDY BARR, Kentucky
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia         GREG STEUBE, Florida
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania       DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey           CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
ANDY KIM, New Jersey                 AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas
SARA JACOBS, California              PETER MEIJER, Michigan
KATHY MANNING, North Carolina        NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York
JIM COSTA, California                RONNY JACKSON, Texas
JUAN VARGAS, California              YOUNG KIM, California
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas              MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois

                Sophia Lafargue, Staff Director                                   

              Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director

              
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                       INFORMATION FOR THE RECORD

Statement of His Excellency Bocchit Edmond.......................     4

                               WITNESSES

Douyon, Emmanuela, Policy Expert, Activist, NOU PAP DOMI.........    15
Jozef, Guerline, President, Haitian Bridge Alliance..............    24
Auguste, Rosy, Program Director, National Network for the Defense 
  of Human Rights (RNDDH)........................................    34
White, Honorable Pamela W., Former U.S. Ambassador to Haiti, U.S. 
  State Department...............................................    41

                                APPENDIX

Hearing Notice...................................................    80
Hearing Minutes..................................................    81
Hearing Attendance...............................................    82

                        STATEMENT FOR THE RECORD

Statement for the record submitted from Representative Connolly..    83

             ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Statement for the record from the Center for American Progress...    85
Article from the Miami Herald....................................    89
Letters submitted to the Honorable Michelle Sison for the record.    91

            RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Responses to questions submitted for the record..................    99


      POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS ON HAITI FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION

                         Friday, March 12, 2021

                          House of Representatives,
                      Committee on Foreign Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:09 a.m., via 
Webex, Hon. Gregory Meeks (Chairman of the committee) 
presiding.
    Chairman Meeks. The Committee on Foreign Affairs will come 
to order.
    Without objection, we are glad to welcome our colleague, 
the Chair of the House Financial Services Committee, the 
Honorable Representative Maxine Waters, to participate in 
today's hearing after our Members have had their opportunity to 
participate and question the witnesses.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the committee at any time. And all Members will have 
5 days to submit statements, extraneous material, and questions 
for the record, subject to the length limitations in the rules.
    To insert something into the record, please have your staff 
email the previously mentioned address, or contact full 
committee staff.
    As a reminder to Members, please keep your video function 
on at all times, even when you are not recognized by the Chair. 
Members are responsible for muting and unmuting themselves. And 
please remember to mute yourself after you finish speaking. 
Consistent with House rules, staff will only mute Members, as 
appropriate, when they are not under recognition, to eliminate 
background noise.
    I see that we have a quorum. And I now recognize myself for 
opening remarks.
    Pursuant to notice, we meet today to hear from 
distinguished witnesses on their policy recommendations on 
Haiti for the Biden Administration.
    It has been more than 11 years since Haiti suffered the 
devastating earthquake that killed hundreds of thousands, 
displaced more than a million people, and cost billions of 
dollars in damage. I am grateful that there is a continued U.S. 
assistance to Haiti, and I am inspired by the resilience of the 
Haitian people. We must sadly recognize that the situation in 
Haiti has continued to deteriorate in the decades since the 
earthquake.
    Moving forward, we must be frank with ourselves and with 
the Haitian people as we assess the strengths and the 
shortcomings of our assistance programs in Haiti.
    Today, Haiti faces a multi-pronged crisis. President Moise 
has ruled by decree for 14 months. Top government officials 
have been sanctioned by the U.S. Government for committing 
human rights violations. And Haitian parents are afraid to send 
their children to school or travel to work, not just because of 
the pandemic, but because kidnappings and gang violence has 
spiraled out of control.
    Under the last Administration, a U.S. foreign policy--our 
U.S. foreign policy turned a blind eye to matters of human 
rights abuses and corruption. We witnessed the Haitian 
Government cover up corruption allegations, tamp down on the 
rights of journalists, and violently break up peaceful protests 
with virtually zero condemnation.
    With the Biden Administration, America is once again 
willing to speak out against these actions. But there will be 
little time to waste.
    In the first year of President Biden's term Haiti is slated 
to hold a constitutional referendum, as well as a parliamentary 
and Presidential election. How the United States responds to 
these challenges early on will play a pivotal role in 
establishing buy-in and trust from Haitian civil society and 
the Haitian people at large. However, the solutions to the 
crisis in Haiti will not come from Washington, New York, or 
Geneva, these solutions must come from and for the Haitian 
people.
    As Members of Congress, we must listen to Haitian civil 
society, as well as our constituents in the Haitian diaspora. I 
am proud to have a vibrant Haitian community in my district of 
southeastern Queens, New York. And I value the perspective they 
share. We must work multilaterally to elevate those voices and 
take seriously their concerns.
    One concern I hear frequently is skepticism about Haiti's 
readiness for elections. While I would love nothing more than 
to see free, fair, and inclusive elections held immediately, we 
must listen to the outcry of Haitian voices who are telling us 
that elections this year will be neither free, fair, or 
inclusive, that the voices of civil society and the opposition 
continue to be shown.
    Instead of focusing on holding a constitutional referendum 
that many in Haiti and in the international community have 
denounced as unconstitutional, President Moise must take the 
initiative and begin serious dialog to discuss what a peaceful 
transition of power can look like.
    I have called on the Biden Administration to recognize that 
holding elections for elections' sake in Haiti will lead to the 
same outcome as in the 2015 election. In order to move away 
from the political paralysis that has gripped Haiti over the 
last few years, the Haitian people need to believe that their 
voices matter.
    Finally, I want to reiterate my concerns that several of my 
colleague, and I expressed to Secretary Mayorkas last month. It 
was about the continued expulsion of Haitian migrants under 
Title 42 of the Public Health Services Act. Last month at least 
966 Haitians were deported to Haiti, the vast majority of which 
were Title 42 expulsions, without any authority, no screening 
whatsoever. Given all the challenges Haiti already faces, it is 
untenable for the United States to continue expelling Haitian 
migrants under Title 42.
    The problems Haiti faces are complex and are only getting 
more challenging. These difficulties will require a new 
approach from the Biden Administration, with active engagement 
from Congress, particularly this committee. An increased 
collaboration with Haitian civil society, the Haitian-American 
diaspora, and important regional partners like CARICOM.
    In my capacity as Chair of this committee, I will be 
working to make sure this Administration works closely with 
Congress to do what is the best for the people of Haiti.
    I look forward to hearing from our distinguished witnesses 
on how we can make that happen. And I want to thank Ranking 
Member McCaul for his partnership in addressing this important 
topic.
    Now, I will be submitting for the record a document from 
the Government of Haiti. And I want to be clear, this document 
does not reflect my views, nor my assessment of recent events. 
But in the interest of a full and complete hearing record with 
multiple views, I am submitting it for the record.
    [The information referred to follows:]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

      
    Chairman Meeks. I will now recognize the Ranking Member, 
Representative McCaul, for his remarks.
    Mr. McCaul. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for 
holding this hearing on a critical issue in the Western 
Hemisphere.
    Haiti is facing a political, economic, and humanitarian 
crisis with its current President Jovenel Moise ruling by 
decree for over a year. While this is legal, it complicates the 
situation further. Current events are like the fragility of 
Haiti's democracy. And, sadly, Haiti has struggled consistently 
with political instability, extreme poverty, corruption, and 
other endemic challenges since its transition from dictatorship 
to democracy in 1987.
    Haiti's progress has also been hindered by natural 
disasters like the 2010 earthquake, and Hurricane Matthew in 
2016. Haiti remains the poorest country in the Western 
Hemisphere where nearly 60 percent of the population lives 
below the national poverty line. And as a result of the COVID 
pandemic, Haiti's economy has contracted by an estimated 4 
percent.
    I am also concerned about the alarmingly high levels of 
crime and violence in Haiti, and reports of local gangs, human 
rights abuses, and systemic corruption, which are rampant. And 
I worry about the capacity of Haiti's justice system to fully 
investigate and hold criminals accountable.
    No matter how difficult the situation, the United States 
remains committed to supporting the Haitian people. Haiti is 
the second largest recipient of U.S. assistance in the Western 
Hemisphere, receiving over $180 million in Fiscal Year 2020. 
These funds are used primarily for emergency food aid and 
distribution, global health programs, education, and security 
assistance.
    U.S. assistance has also helped build the Haitian National 
Police into a professional security force, and we should 
continue to support its development.
    However, given the continuing challenges facing Haiti, I 
think it is fair to ask how effective our assistance has been 
and explore how our aid could achieve the desired outcome.
    I also want to recognize the Government of Haiti for 
maintaining diplomatic ties with Taiwan, and standing with the 
U.S. and the international community and acknowledging the 
fraudulent nature of the legislative elections organized by the 
Maduro regime in Venezuela last year. I commend them for taking 
these principled positions.
    It is important for us to pursue policies that support the 
Haitian people in their efforts to address serious challenges 
they are facing. So, I look forward to hearing from our 
witnesses today.
    And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Meeks. Thank you, Representative McCaul.
    I am honored to have a distinguished panel, four excellent 
witnesses joining us today for our hearing.
    Ms. Emmanuela Douyon is an economist, professor, and leader 
in the Nou Pap Domi social movement, a collective of young 
Haitians committed to fighting corruption, impunity, and social 
injustice.
    Ms. Guerline Jozef is the Co-Founder and Executive Director 
of the Haitian Bridge Alliance, which elevates and empowers 
Haitians and other Black immigrants from the Caribbean and 
Africa through advocacy, organizing, and social and cultural 
programs.
    Ms. Rosy Kesner Auguste serves as Program Manager of the 
National Human Rights Defense Network, a national institution 
based on Haiti that advocates for the respect of human rights, 
and conducts oversight of State institutions.
    And, finally, Ambassador Pamela A. White. She is an 
American diplomat who served as U.S. Ambassador to The Gambia 
from 2010 to 2012, and U.S. Ambassador to Haiti from 2012 to 
2015.
    I thank you all for joining us today, and I look forward to 
your testimony.
    Witnesses will have 5 minutes to deliver your opening 
remarks. We will also have an interpreter for one of the 
witnesses. And I will make allowances for time used for 
interpretation.
    I will gently tap my gavel when you have 30 seconds left so 
that you may conclude your testimony.
    Without objection, your prepared written statement will be 
made part of the record.
    I now recognize Ms. Emmanuela Douyon for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF EMMANUELA DOUYON, POLICY EXPERT, ACTIVIST, NOU PAP 
                              DOMI

    Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Chairman Meeks, Ranking Member 
McCaul, and Members of the committee. I want to thank you for 
holding this hearing during a critical moment in Haiti's 
history. My name is Emmanuela Douyon, and I am honored to be 
here on behalf of Nou Pap Domi, a collective of engaged Haitian 
citizens in the struggle against government corruption and 
impunity.
    Today is not the first time the U.S. Congress or this 
committee has held a hearing to assess U.S. policy in Haiti and 
gather recommendations. However, we see the present situation 
as fundamentally different. Today, I am hopeful that the 
Haitian people are on the verge of a new era, one with new 
actors and a clear roadmap to end old practices that perpetuate 
crisis after crisis and that can instead lead to the real 
change the Haitian people deserve.
    In Haiti, we are hopeful that the Administration of U.S. 
President Joe Biden will also break with the past and, instead, 
listen to the voices of civil society.
    In my written testimony, I describe the current crisis and 
provide a couple of recommendations that I summarize here.
    We believe that the Biden Administration and the U.S. 
Congress should take the following actions:
    The U.S. should recognize that the situation in Haiti today 
as a struggle by the Haitian people to take ownership of their 
government and build democracy, not simply a fight between 
politicians for power.
    The U.S. should not be supporting Jovenel Moise, who is a 
threat to Haiti's constitution and the rule of law because of 
his tolerance for impunity and unconstitutional and 
authoritarian acts, including:
    Preparation of a constitutional referendum in violation of 
the amendment process set forth in the constitution;
    The appointment by decree of a provisional electoral 
council, whose Members are not sworn in as legally required;
    The recent dismissal and subsequent replacement of three 
Supreme Court judges;
    Attempts to undermine the controlling power of the Court of 
Auditors;
    Absence of political will to hold accountable those 
involved in massacres, such as the La Saline massacre, and 
several killings that happened during President Moise's term, 
including the devastating assassination last year of the 
President of the Bar Association of Port-au-Prince, Monferrier 
Dorval.
    His continued effort to grab power, whatever the cost, in 
clear attempts to consolidate his power with no checks and 
balances, including the replacement of elected local officials 
by people accountable to him only, and unconstitutional decrees 
that raise serious concern.
    The U.S. Government must recognize that in the current 
context the State-sponsored gang violence and human rights 
abuses, increasing authoritarianism, and unconstitutional an 
illegal provisional electoral council, and the failure to 
register voters, free, fair, and credible elections cannot be 
safely conducted within this year. It is simply not possible.
    The recurrent electoral crisis and subsequent political 
crisis have eroded citizens' faith in their government.
    Rather than take sides in the constitutional dispute, it 
will be more helpful to listen to and offer solidarity with the 
Haitian people, who no longer recognize Jovenel Moise as their 
President. Even before his constitutional mandate ended, after 
years of calling on him to resign following reports from the 
Court of Auditors providing his involvement in the PetroCaribe 
corruption scandal, and because they are deeply concerned with 
human rights abuse. Corrupt, incompetent, and authoritarian 
officials should never be allowed to stay in power beyond their 
term in the name of democracy.
    The U.S. Government should recognize that past foreign-led 
attempts aimed to strengthen democracy in Haiti have not led to 
progress and often have been counterproductive. It is time to 
follow the lead of Haitian civil society in determining when to 
support elections in Haiti, and respect the current efforts to 
solve the crisis as they want to.
    Specifically, by organizing a nonpartisan, non-coerced and 
consensus-based team of civil society and political actors 
capable of ensuring the governance of the country, filling the 
institutional void at the head of the country since the end of 
President Moise's constitutional mandate on February 7, 2021, 
and restore democratic order.
    The U.S. should investigate money laundering and arms 
trafficking, human rights abuses, and other illegal acts by 
Haitian officials and private sector leaders and apply 
sanctions, including under the Global Magnitsky Act where 
applicable.
    It is time to send a clear signal to those who are 
squandering State resources with impunity, and those who 
continue to shed blood and violate human rights. The United 
States should support Haitian civil society's call for the 
immediate release of those arrested on February 7, 2021, and 
not give credence to the Government's narrative, given the lack 
of credible evidence of the coup attempt.
    To conclude, I want to state clearly that the people of 
Haiti are resolute in their desire for a true democracy, a 
democracy that works for all, and need to be able to count on 
the support of their friends and partners, including the U.S. 
Government, in this pursuit.
    Thank you very much. And I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Douyon follows:]

                                  domi
                                  
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                                 
                                  


    Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
    Ms. Guerline Jozef, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

  STATEMENT OF MS. GUERLINE JOZEF, PRESIDENT, HAITIAN BRIDGE 
                            ALLIANCE

    Ms. Jozef. Good morning. Thank you so much for having me. 
My name is Guerline Jozef. I am the Co-founder and Executive 
Director of the Haitian Bridge Alliance.
    The Haitian Bridge Alliance provides direct service 
advocating, organizing on behalf of Black immigrants from the 
Caribbean entering Haiti, from the Afro-Latinx community, and 
our brothers and sisters from Africa.
    Today it is with a saddened heart that I am before you. As 
we are speaking, there is a flight to Haiti carrying asylum 
seekers who have made a dangerous journey coming to our borders 
to ask for asylum. Today, this morning, as we speak, over 129 
people are on a flight to Haiti, including what seems to be a 
newborn baby just a few days old.
    It is unconscionable for us as a country, as a people, as 
this great United States of ours, to continue the cruel, 
inhuman practice and lack of respect to the lives of those most 
vulnerable.
    As we stand today, with all the faith, with all the hope, 
as we heard from my colleague Emmanuela, the situation on the 
ground in Haiti we understand that for too long we have been 
silent. The partnership between Haiti and the United States 
needs to be better. We understand that too many lives are at 
risk. We understand that this cannot continue.
    Haiti has not always been a migrant-sending country, but 
due to ongoing natural disasters, as we all know, in 2010, the 
earthquake that killed over 2,000--200,000 people, leaving the 
infrastructure of Haiti completely destroyed. Consequently, the 
storms and the cholera epidemic that was brought into the 
country by, unfortunately, health relief workers from the 
United Nations, sill we are dealing with those aftershocks.
    Today, in 2021, we still feel the aftershock of the 
earthquake. We see people leaving the country in search for a 
place to live, and search for freedom, and in search for 
refuge. But we, as the United States, turn our backs once again 
to the Haitian community.
    We understand that the immigration prison system as we know 
it today was a direct response to the Haitian refugees arriving 
on our shores in the 1980's. Enough is enough. Today, as we 
look back, what is currently happening in the country, in the 
middle of the uprising, in the middle of the people of Haiti 
once again asking, fighting for life and for justice, we cannot 
continue to do that.
    I will share one quick story with you of a woman who shared 
with us. She and her husband and her child, just 4 months old, 
was deported to Haiti 4 weeks ago. She shared with us that she 
was kidnapped. She was raped, barely escaped, was able to leave 
the country. Went to Chile in 2017. In turn, she experienced 
extreme racism which forced her again to leave to search for 
safety.
    Upon arriving at the U.S.-Mexico border she stayed a year-
and-a-half, 18 months waiting for a chance to ask for asylum.
    Four weeks ago she finally mustered the courage and took 
the chance. What she shared with me was that upon arriving she 
was not even given the chance to state her case. They did not 
even ask her, Why are you here? What are your fears?
    She was immediately detained for 10 days without access to 
any sanitary--access to any sanitation. She was held for 10 
days without access to a bathroom, to a shower, without access 
to a toothbrush or toothpaste, with her child, her infant, who 
ended up having to soil his clothes. And she was denied access 
to change the infant's clothes, and denied access to change her 
own clothes.
    At 4 a.m. in the morning she was awakened and told to come 
to get breakfast, which happened to be a bean burrito. When 
asked, Can I leave my child to sleep because it is too early 
and it is cold? they told her no. She pled with them. They told 
her that--these are her words--if you do not bring the baby, we 
will drag her out.
    So, these are the conditions that we see Black immigrants, 
including asylum seekers, specifically Haitians, being treated 
as they come and ask for asylum.
    It is clear the conditions we see----
    Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
    Ms. Jozef [continuing]. We see these conditions for Haiti. 
So, we are asking, we are demanding that we protect those 
lives. We are demanding that we have the cease to expulsion to 
Haiti immediately.
    We are asking that the flight that left today be returned 
to the United States with that infant, with the students.
    Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
    Ms. Jozef. We are asking for----
    Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
    Ms. Jozef. Thank you so much.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Jozef follows:]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    
    
    Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
    I now recognize Ms. Auguste for 5 minutes.

   STATEMENT OF MS. ROSY AUGUSTE, PROGRAM DIRECTOR, NATIONAL 
        NETWORK FOR THE DEFENSE OF HUMAN RIGHTS (RNDDH)

    [The following statement and answers were delivered through 
an interpreter.]

    Ms. Auguste. Chairman Meeks, Ranking Member McCaul, Members 
of the U.S. House of Representatives, Members of the Foreign 
Affairs committee, good morning. My name is Rosy Auguste 
Ducena. I am a lawyer and program manager for the National 
Network for the Defense of Human Rights. Thank you for the 
opportunity to share with you accurate information about the 
human rights violations that are taking place in Haiti.
    We wish to present an abbreviated version of our testimony 
that has already been presented to the committee and is 
available to anyone who is interested.
    Since 2017, human rights organizations have continued to 
denounce what is happening in Haiti. However, despite these 
denunciations, the U.S. administration, the OAS, the U.N. have 
given, always giving their unconditional support to the de 
facto President Jovenel Moise to the detriment of the Haitian 
people.
    Today the Republic of Haiti is ruled by one man, who has 
granted himself the power of the legislative and judicial 
branches, in addition to those of the executive branch.
    There are three main reasons why elections cannot be held 
in Haiti in 2021:
    First of all, the Haitian State is unable to issue the 
electoral cards to voters.
    The electoral council is illegitimate and its Members have 
not been sworn in by the Haitian Supreme Court, and it has an 
unconstitutional mandate to organize a referendum.
    The current insecurity will not allow candidates to 
campaign or voters to cast their ballot without constraint on 
election day.
    Indeed, the insecurity in the country is characterized by 
acts of violence against life and property. In 2020 alone, more 
than 1,085 people, including 37 police officers, were 
assassinated in Haiti.
    In January and February 2021, at least 65 people were 
murdered, including three police officers.
    In June 2020, the armed gangs federated with the blessing 
of the current government. They were influential enough to 
appoint a director Social assistance funds- (which is a State 
institution created to help disabled and people in needs). The 
gangs demanded and obtained the dismissal of a minister.
    From 2018 to 2020, at least 10 massacres were perpetrated 
in Port-au-Prince, resulting in the assassination of 323 
people, 98 others disappeared, 38 women gang raped, 251 
children became orphans.
    Since 2020, 4 to 5 people are kidnapped every day, among 
them women and girls who have generally become victims of gang 
rape. People victims claim they were kidnapped by uniformed 
police and transported in government vehicles. Others said they 
were handed over, ransomed to people accompanied by police 
officers.
    Influential Members of the government are negotiating and 
arranging the transportation of the hostages. Furthermore, the 
Haitian judiciary system is completely dysfunctional. The 
impact of this dysfunction is enormous on the prison 
population, more than 84 percent of whom are awaiting trial.
    Anti-government demonstrations are systemically repressed, 
while those organized by armed gangs are secured by the police.
    Today, despite the fact that his mandate ended on February 
7, 2021, Jovenel Moise refused to leave office. Meanwhile, he 
controlled the country with his personal intelligence agency, 
the coalitions of armed gangs, a brigade created to monitor 
protected areas transformed into an arms villages.
    A specialized police unit created to provide security for 
the President. But now to his cause. He mobilized only a 
weakened and politicized police force.
    Based on what we have shared with you, we call on the Biden 
Administration to listen and respect Haitian civil society's 
demands, and recognize that the mandate of President--former 
President Jovenel Moise has ended; stop supporting an electoral 
process that will lead to political instability. Instead, 
support free and fair elections with a legitimate electoral 
council resulting from a political agreement.
    The U.S. Government must distance themselves from the 
process of an unconstitutional referendum. Prosecute Members of 
this regime involved in human rights violations, corruption, 
money laundering on American soil.
    Investigate the flow of illegal weapons from the U.S. which 
are easily smuggled into Haitian territory. These weapons 
emphasize insecurity and strike fear in the hearts of every 
Haitian.
    Thank you very much. And I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Auguste follows:]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

      
    Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
    I now yield 5 minutes to Ambassador Pamela White.

   STATEMENT OF HON. PAMELA WHITE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO 
                  HAITI, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT

    Ms. White. Good morning. Thank you so much for having this 
hearing.
    My name is Pamela White, and I am the former U.S. 
Ambassador to Haiti from 2012 to 2015. I first served in Haiti 
from 1985 to 1990, my first tour as a foreign service officer. 
I witnessed the removal of Baby Doc and the subsequent horror 
show that went on for years after his departure.
    Most of my career was working for USAID from 1978 to 2010, 
when I became Ambassador to The Gambia. That is 30-plus years 
of development experience, including serving as USAID Mission 
Director in Mali, Tanzania, and Liberia.
    These are my opinions and not the USG's opinions.
    As you all know, the situation in Haiti is highly volatile. 
Every single day there are reports of decapitations, rapes, and 
murders. Kidnappings are at an all-time high. The human rights 
situation is deplorable. Four million Haitians are suffering 
food insecurity, more than half are living on less than $2.40 a 
day. There is a weak judiciary, a threatened press, and no 
parliament. In short, Haiti is once again a mess.
    With this background in mind, I will touch on two issues: 
the elections and aid.
    First the elections. It is difficult for me to imagine 
having successful elections this year in Haiti. Putting aside 
for the moment the question of President Moise should have left 
in February, or should he leave next February, I do not know 
the answer, but I do not believe that right now the necessary 
institutions are in place to assure a smooth transition. The 
USG, the OAS, and the U.N. have all stated that Moise's term 
ends in 2022, but several Haitian constitutional experts as 
well as Harvard, Yale, and NYU law school clinics disagree.
    The CEP was appointed last year. That CEP does not have 
representatives from organizations that are critical, like the 
church. The last CEP resigned en masse, refusing to serve under 
President Moise. The Supreme Court refused to swear in the 
current Members. I do not believe the current CEP can be 
considered legit. This can be quickly corrected if parties come 
to the table.
    I have been told that 2.8 million voters have been 
registered, but only 1.7 million cards have been issued. Over 6 
million voters were registered in 2016. The current government 
says they have the capability to register 2 million voters a 
month, but they are currently falling way short. An impartial, 
neutral audit needs to happen yesterday.
    There is also the money problem. The last elections cost 
over $150 million dollars. I wonder how international support 
there will be for elections that are so tainted. I do not see 
the USG giving $33 million, as it did in 2016, considering the 
current chaos.
    The international community will have to draw some firm 
lines in the sand that will hold Haitian leadership accountable 
for both a smooth transition and vastly improved security. If 
lines are crossed, money will stop.
    Helen La Lime, the very talented U.N. Special 
Representative, said in her last report that ``above all 
else,'' ``above all else, a minimal consensus among relevant 
political stakeholders would greatly contribute to creating an 
environment conducive to the holding of a Constitutional 
referendum and subsequent elections.''
    Although I think the entire question of a referendum to 
change the constitution is extremely dubious, I completely 
agree with the rest of her statement. If we do not get minimal 
consensus among the relevant actors, Haiti will not be able to 
pull off credible elections, period.
    Here are a few quick suggestions.
    If President Moise will not step down, he should step 
aside. He must be completely transparent and honest. He must 
bring relevant actors to the table. A well-respected Haitian 
should be appointed prime minister. He or she should 
immediately dissolve the current CEP and call a summit with all 
relevant political actors to establish a legal CEP.
    I would hope the U.N. and USG could both help fund such a 
summit and commit to acting as mediators, if asked. The voter 
registration also needs immediate help.
    The new prime minister's team will also need to articulate 
a security plan. If President Moise stays in power, his job 
will be to maintain peace. Stop the brutal beatings and the 
gang violence. Start acting like a Statesman.
    Let me quickly also touch on the topic of foreign aid. I 
believe Haitians desperately need humanitarian aid such as food 
aid and basic health care. USAID can deliver both, even under 
the worst political conditions. But, I do not believe that 
regular, normal development activity can be carried out in this 
current violent atmosphere.
    Free and fair elections are important pieces to any 
democracy's complex puzzle. But having an election will not 
transform Haiti. It never has and it never will.
    Thank you so much for your time.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. White follows:]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

       
    Chairman Meeks. Thank you, Madam Ambassador.
    I want to thank all of the witnesses. Now, there are 
bipartisan witnesses, and all of them have basically just said 
Haiti's a mess. The people are suffering. This has to stop. 
There has got to be some order.
    That is the reason why we are doing this hearing. And this 
committee is going to continue to look so that the people of 
Haiti get better. They deserve better. And we have to work 
collectively to do that.
    So, now I am going to recognize Members for 5 minutes. And 
I just want to thank all of the witnesses for their testimony. 
It just breaks my heart listening. But now it is making me more 
determined that we have got to do something, and we have got to 
do it collectively.
    I am going to recognize Members for 5 minutes each, 
pursuant to the House rules. And all time yielded is for the 
purposes of questioning our witnesses.
    I will recognize Members by committee seniority, 
alternating between Democrats and Republicans. If you miss your 
turn, please let our staff know and we will come back to you. 
If you seek recognition, you must unmute your microphone and 
address the Chair verbally, and identify yourself so that we 
know who is speaking.
    I will start by recognizing myself for 5 minutes.
    Let me start with Ms. Douyon. You know, there is a lot of 
skepticism among Haiti's civil society that the Moise 
administration can preside over fair and credible elections. 
Tell me, what do you think, do you consider the current 
provisional electoral council to be independent, legitimate, 
and able to administer free, fair, and credible elections?
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Meeks.
    I do not recognize the CEP as legitimate to organize 
elections. First of all, the way it was constituted. It does 
not reflect the constitution, and the people who are involved 
were not sent by key sectors of civil society in Haiti. It was 
not presented at the court, at the Supreme Court, like it was 
supposed to do.
    This is an illegal CEP. And there is no way this CEP could 
organize fair, credible elections.
    Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
    Madam Ambassador White, do you agree?
    Ms. White. One hundred percent.
    Chairman Meeks. Now, let me ask also, what role do you 
believe the multilateral groups, like Core Group or CARICOM, or 
other interested parties in the international community, should 
play in Haiti?
    And how can the United States best engage with our 
international partners so that we, the international, speak 
with one voice, not divided? No, we cannot be divided when it 
comes to Haiti. We have to all speak with one voice and be 
clear about it.
    Ms. White. Are you speaking to me still?
    Chairman Meeks. Yes.
    Ms. White. Absolutely, yes. Thank you, Chairman.
    The Core Group is essential to come together and speak with 
one voice. You are absolutely right. The U.S. Government has 
always been if not the leading voice, certainly one of the 
leading voices on that Core Group because no one gives more to 
Haiti than the United States of America, in many, many ways, 
not just monetarily.
    But I think that the leadership we need to have at that 
Core Group meeting, we need to have a clear view of how we are 
going to articulate our policy for the next 18 months at least. 
And I think your Chair, your leadership can help them define 
how to move forward.
    Because as I said in my statement, we need to have clear 
lines in the sand. If this does not happen, the money stops, we 
need to look at what our policies are going to be.
    I was,, reading about the United Nations, and the U.S., and 
the OAS all saying that they support means to stay for another 
year, but I did not hear what the conditionality for that was. 
And I would like to hear that articulated.
    Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
    Ms. Jozef, what about this constitutional referendum? Now, 
I have heard that part of the constitution needs to be 
reformed. But what are your thoughts, should there be a 
referendum in June? Or should it not be? Are the people ready?
    Give me your thoughts on a constitutional referendum.
    Ms. Jozef. Chairman Meeks, as a Haitian-American woman, 
witnessing what is happening in the middle of this chaos, as we 
just heard from all those people, all those witnesses, for me 
the answer is no. I do not believe a referendum for the 
constitution right now is something that is going to make the 
changes that are needed.
    If the constitution as is is not even respected, what 
change will come from having a referendum in June, in less than 
6 months?
    So, my answer is no.
    I think we should continue to push for a free, elected--for 
free assistance in Haiti at this moment. I personally do not 
think, you know, a referendum on the constitution in June is 
warranted.
    Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
    And let me real quick go back to Ms. Douyon. What about 
this influx of returning Haitians--I think you testified to 
that--of Haitian immigrants, how does that impact the Haitian 
economy, especially given a loss of remittances in dollars, et 
cetera?
    You know, what are some of the alternatives that you think 
that we should be looking at in the Biden Administration other 
than the deportations?
    Ms. Douyon. Okay. First of all, I have to mention--thank 
you, Chairman Meeks--I have to mention since the political 
crisis is getting worse, more and more people are immigrating 
to the U.S. illegally. And with COVID-19 and other problems we 
have witnessed somehow a decrease in the amount of remittances 
that are being sent to Haiti. At some point the checks is 
increased, but later it decreased.
    But the current economic situation in Haiti, even the same 
amount that the people used to send in Haiti is not enough. And 
with deportation, it is not going to help Haiti because those 
people who fled they were, like, fleeing the worsening living 
condition in Haiti. And sending them back in with an increase 
in crime levels and a surge of kidnappings, I do not think this 
is the best thing to do for Haiti right now.
    And, also, this is why it is urgent to restore peace and 
democratic order in Haiti so we are not dealing with this kind 
of situation.
    Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
    My time has expired. And I will recognize the Ranking 
Member McCaul from the great state of Texas.
    Mr. McCaul. I thank the Chairman from the great state of 
New York, his acknowledging me.
    Let me just first say I agree with the Chairman, these 
stories have been very compelling and, quite honestly, very 
sad. It is a sad state of affairs. And I think that, Mr. 
Chairman, thanks for holding this hearing. I think it has 
caught those two delighted Members that had no idea that Haiti 
was in such bad shape.
    And I think we have a responsibility to do something about 
it, as does the United Nations, and the OAS as well.
    My first question is to Ambassador White. You know, in 
Mexico we had the Merida Initiative where we had financial 
assistance tied to metrics regarding governance and rule of law 
to help better shape the situation. And from the testimoneys I 
heard, there really is no rule of law in Haiti right now.
    Can you tell us how we could effectuate assistance better 
to get the situation under control?
    Ms. White. Yes. Thank you so much for your question.
    I think we need, as I said again, however you want to call 
it, I call it drawing lines in the sand, but we need a very 
clear map of what, what we are expecting out of government, the 
Government in Haiti. And if we do not get the minimum that we 
are hoping out of the Government of Haiti, we need to have some 
conditionality.
    And I was explaining this the other day to one of my 
friends, and I was saying because the word ``conditionality,'' 
conditionality linked to aid became a very dirty word in the 
late 1990's and early 2000's around give them the money, it is 
their country, let them do what they want to do.
    And I always believed that United States directive that no, 
you have to have conditions for aid. The U.S. taxpayer expects 
something to come out of their hard-earned money. And we have 
to articulate exactly what that is. And that needs to happen.
    Mr. McCaul. Well, I could not agree with you more. And I 
think the taxpayers deserve that and want that. And, otherwise, 
if you pour money into a corrupt government or system, it is 
not going to get the results that you are looking for and then, 
therefore, waste the money.
    Let me ask you about the Haitian National Police. 
Previously the military seemed to control and there was a lot 
of corruption with the military in Haiti. And they, one of the 
reforms I think that has been more positive is the Haitian 
National Police.
    Do you agree with that? And should we be doing more to help 
them?
    Ms. White. Yes. When I left Haiti in 2015, let me tell you, 
I was very proud of the Haitian National Police. They had a 
good reputation. They were working with a lot of our people, 
from SOUTHCOM, and from different police forces in the United 
States.
    It was a great partnership. And I think that New York, yes, 
New York, especially New York by the way, Chairman Meeks. And I 
thought they were, you know, an organization that was 
relatively not corrupt and did a really good job with very 
little resources.
    I think we need more resources in the National Police. And 
I think we need more of that mentoring. I do not know if it is 
still ongoing, but we need more of it. Because I have heard 
from my many, many Haitian friends, that at least big portions 
of the police are becoming more and more corrupt. And that is 
really, really sad because they were a very decent 
organization.
    Chairman Meeks. Yes. I think we need to focus on that, too.
    Mr. McCaul. My last question to anybody on the panel, we, I 
think the selection, one of the testimoneys was that $150 
million to have an election down there, OAS is involved, the 
United Nations, and the United States. How can we use that $150 
million wisely?
    And I do not think the President is going to step aside 
until his term is done. And I know, Ambassador White, that was 
your first premise. But I do not think that that is going to 
happen. So, short of that, what do we do with the $150 million 
to make sure this is as free, and fair elections that we can?
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Ranking Member McCaul. If you will 
allow, I want to answer this question.
    Mr. McCaul. Sure.
    Ms. Douyon. First of all, about the term of the President. 
His term ended last February 7th. And about the election, with 
that amount of money I think it would be better for the 
international community, and anyone interested in founding 
elections in Haiti, to wait until a fair election can happen in 
Haiti.
    At the present time there is no possibility that we can 
have fair, credible, inclusive elections. If anyone spends 
money on organizing elections now, it will only lead to another 
crisis because people will not be able to participate. And we 
have a very low turnover in the last election. Less than 30 
percent of people participated in those elections
    And if you have elections with kidnappings and this crime 
level, I do not know if many people would be able to join, to 
campaign, to participate in those elections. And I do not know 
who in the civil society is going to accept the result of those 
elections.
    And even if you spend this amount of money, I do not trust 
the government to be able to organize elections when they 
cannot even manage dire shortage in the country. How could they 
organize elections? I do not trust them to do that.
    Mr. McCaul. Well, thank you, Emmanuela. I think that is the 
answer. I do not think we can have free and fair elections with 
the current President in office. Until he steps down, perhaps 
you should not be having an election until that time it seems 
to me.
    So, thanks for that clarification. That is I think very 
helpful testimony.
    And thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
    I now recognize the Chair of the Subcommittee on Western 
Hemisphere, Civilian Security, Migration and International 
Economic Policy, and all the work that he has been doing on the 
subcommittee, particularly as it is focused on Haiti, 
Representative Albio Sires from New Jersey for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am glad you are 
holding this as a full committee hearing because I see a lot of 
people are participating in this process. And people need to 
know what is going on in Haiti.
    You know, I visited Haiti a couple, a few years ago. And I 
met with the President. And back then he told me point blank 
that he wanted to revise the military. And I said to him, with 
the needs that you have in this country, why would you want to 
revise the military?
    I said to him, look, Costa Rica does not have an army and 
they are thriving. Why do you feel that Haiti has--needs an 
army?
    He said, well, it is the constitution.
    The other thing, we visited the National Police. They were 
doing a great job then. But it seems to me that this President 
step by step has been creating the military, get rid of judges, 
creating central intelligence, so he can maintain himself in 
power.
    Now, my question to the panel is, how do we stop that? 
Because are the Ambassadors of the country speaking up enough 
about it? Is the European Union speaking up about it? Are the 
neighboring countries speaking up about it?
    You know, we have invested a great deal of money in Haiti. 
And for this President to say that he needs a military, you 
know, to me was just ridiculous.
    So, I was wondering if somebody can take that question?
    Ms. White. I can.
    Ms. Auguste. Can I answer?
    Today the questions that are being raised are very 
important questions. First, we must acknowledge that it was a 
PHTK regime that unilaterally agreed to demobilize the Haitian 
army.
    We also know the former Haitian army was involved in grave 
human rights violations. There was nothing done to hold them 
accountable against the crimes committed against the Haitian 
population.
    Today we have a weakened police force because the 
Government has decided to support armed gangs within the 
country instead of providing resources to the Haitian police.
    The criminal gangs we have in the country have more weapons 
than the police forces themselves.
    Mr. Sires. Ambassador White, can you tell me if other 
Ambassadors----
    Ms. Auguste. Today, when we are talking about the mandates 
of former President Jovenel Moise, he used the constitution to 
say that the mandate of parliament ended. Today, the Haitian 
population is using the same calculations to say that his 
mandate has ended.
    Mr. Sires. All right. Ambassador White, can you just speak 
to the question of have other Ambassadors spoken up about what 
is going on in Haiti?
    Ambassador White.
    Mr. Meeks. You are muted, Ambassador White. Please unmute.
    Ms. White. Sorry. Yes, they have certainly spoken out 
against about all the violence. They have spoken out about 
human rights abuses. What I am not sure about is, you know, 
what are the consequences? You know, you can say, well, you 
know, this is horrible and the situation is horrible and 
Haiti's a mess, but what exactly do we do about it? So I have 
not seen that articulated and it might have been articulated, I 
have not personally seen it.
    And just, if you will, this question of the army came up 
when I was Ambassador there, and they kept saying, we want an 
army, we want an army, and I kept saying, why would you want an 
army? It just seems ridiculous.
    Mr. Sires. Exactly. Well, thank you very much, Chairman. I 
am finished. Thank you.
    Mr. Meeks. The gentleman yields back. And now I recognize 
the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Africa, Global 
Health, and Global Human Rights, Representative Chris Smith of 
New Jersey, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you 
for convening this important hearing. You and the Ranking 
Member, and Albio Sires, Chairman, have asked a lot of the 
important questions about the political leadership. I would 
like to just focus for a moment with our distinguished 
witnesses. We all remember in 2010 when 200,000 people died 
from the earthquake and 10 months later, there was a horrible 
outbreak of cholera. And for about a century, Haiti had not 
known cholera.
    And after a great deal of investigation, Ban Ki-moon 
finally came to the conclusion from an expert panel that it was 
brought to Haiti by the peacekeepers from Nepal. It was a 
strain that was found in Nepal and their camp was so, 
unfortunately, unsanitary, their waste led to contaminated 
water and about 800-plus thousand people got sick, 10,000 
Haitians died--and there were commitments made.
    I know CDC worked very hard on this as did our U.S. 
Government State Department and USAID, to make sure that 
sanitation was improved. But I wonder, just as a snapshot, has 
it been improved to the point where there is robust sanitary 
conditions in Haiti as a result of lessons learned so that 
there is never again waterborne illnesses like the cholera that 
was taken to so many people?
    Second, there was talk of reparations and was even a 
lawsuit, sadly, that was dismissed by a Federal judge about 
reparations because this had a causation and it was U.N. 
peacekeepers, and I am wondering if anyone would like to speak 
to that issue. And, finally, on human trafficking, Mr. 
Chairman, Haiti is a tier 2 country as per the last report by 
TIP, trafficking in persons, but there is a very, very ongoing 
serious problem of children being put into forced labor, 
domestic servitude.
    In 2014, Haiti passed a law, and I know the Ambassador 
knows about that, on TIP. Enforcement has been lackluster to 
say the least. There were no prosecutions during the reporting 
period to the last TIP Report, the 2020 report, and I am just 
wondering if our distinguished witnesses could shed light on 
the status of victims and the prosecutions of traffickers and 
the prevention strategies in Haiti.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield to the answers.
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congressman Smith. I do not have 
enough data to comment on improvement in general sanitation 
but, and number of instances of human trafficking, but what I 
can say is that there is no real prosecution of criminal in 
Haiti at this time. There is a lot of impunity and even people 
who are involved in massacres are not pursued. They do not face 
charge and are not held accountable, so I will not even mention 
for all the cases.
    And this is directly linked to corruption, rampant 
corruption and impunity in Haiti. The overall situation is that 
if we want to tackle some specific problem like human 
trafficking and even bad living condition, it has a lot to see 
with leadership and the governance of the country. And for the 
past 4 years, Haiti has been in a crisis of leadership with a 
President that himself is accused of being involved in 
corruption. Therefore, there is little chance that we could see 
any improvement in term of prosecution against people involved 
in human trafficking or any other type of crime.
    Mr. Smith. Thank you. Anybody else like to respond?
    Ms. Jozef. Thank you so much. This is Guerline, Congressman 
Smith. The reality is, as we know in Haiti when we speak of the 
cholera, when we see what has happened, nothing has been done. 
No reparation has been provided for those in impacted community 
Members. It is unacceptable to see how not only, you know, what 
we call the corruption in Haiti, but the way that the 
international community always deals with issues in Haiti 
whether it is things that are happening on the ground for that 
the chaos, or even things such we see the United Nations, you 
know, worker, unfortunately, with cholera due to lack of 
sanitation, due to lack of infrastructure, to make sure that 
the people that we are serving are protected.
    So this is a clear example of how negative the entire 
international community including as we can see the U.N. treats 
Haiti when it comes to those types of issues.
    Mr. Smith. Thank you.
    Mr. Meeks. The gentleman's time has expired. Hold it. The 
gentleman's time has expired. I now recognize Representative 
Brad Sherman of California for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Sherman. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for holding 
this hearing. Haiti and the United States have a long 
relationship. It is, after all, our first sister republic here 
in the Western Hemisphere. Unfortunately, Haiti is one of the 
poorest nations of the Western Hemisphere.
    Haiti has only 14,000 to 15,000 police in its Haitian 
National Police which is less than international standards 
would call for the policing of such a populated country. 
Between 2008 and 2019, there were 3,200 Indian policemen who 
were there as part of the U.N. And then our colleague Chris 
Smith points out how U.N. peacekeepers from Nepal were a 
problem for Haiti.
    So I will ask first, Ms. Douyon, would international 
peacekeepers or international police assistance be helpful in 
providing for the rule of law in Haiti?
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congressman Sherman. Of course, help 
is always welcome, but I would say that we need to focus more 
on improving the capacity of the Haitian National Police. 
Because what I notice, is that every time we have foreigners 
coming, helping, when they leave, the local stuff is not better 
off. We do not see any real improvement. It is like they come 
here, do the job, but they do not really reinforce the capacity 
of the police.
    And at this time, the Haitian National Police is suffering 
from bad reputation and some policemen are denouncing bad 
working condition. They need increase in their salary. They 
need the health care. They need a better environment to work 
and we need even more police officer. So if I recommend 
something or recommend that we work on the Haitian National 
Police and show that every police officer can take care of his 
family and they can get perfect training instead of bringing 
more police officer from anywhere.
    Mr. Sherman. The written reports say that there have been 
251 COVID deaths in Haiti. That seems like a very low number. 
Ms. White, should I believe that number or is it dramatically 
understated?
    Ms. White. Well, yes. I think--I do think you should 
believe the number. Now I cannot quite figure it out myself 
because there is at least eight or nine times that many of 
COVID deaths right across the border in the DR. And as we all 
know Haiti does not have exactly the most efficient healthcare 
system in the world. But for whatever reason, a very, very 
trusted doctor from, you know, that has ties to Cornell that is 
a Haitian doctor, has confirmed to me that the number of COVID 
deaths have been relatively low. And, you know, this is true in 
Africa too.
    Mr. Sherman. While I have you, I have one more question 
that is Haiti is one of the 15 nations to recognize Taiwan. We 
have the Beijing offering free assistance, concessionary loans. 
Is Haiti better off sticking with Taiwan, and should we be 
concerned with China trying to develop a relationship with the 
Government of Haiti?
    Ms. White. Is this for me again?
    Mr. Sherman. Yes.
    Ms. White. I do not know the extent of what the Chinese is 
doing in Haiti anymore, to tell you the honest to God truth, so 
I cannot really comment on that. But I have the Chinese slowly 
creeping in all across Africa and Haiti, and I personally do 
not think this is a good thing.
    Mr. Sherman. They have sent hundreds of thousands of face 
masks, thousands of tons of rice. That is to say Taiwan has to, 
well, I guess there is only 15 nations with who they have a 
relationship.
    But then, finally, for whichever witness--oh, I have only 
29 seconds. That is not enough time for anybody to answer a 
question. I yield back.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you. The gentleman yields back. I now 
recognize the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Asia, the 
Pacific, Central Asia, and Nonproliferation, Representative 
Steve Chabot of Ohio, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Chabot. Mr. Chairman?
    Mr. Meeks. Yes.
    Mr. Chabot. I am not sure if you can hear me. My screen 
just went--froze.
    Mr. Meeks. I hear you, Mr. Chabot. I do hear you. We hear 
you.
    Mr. Chabot. That was not a very judicious time for this 
thing to freeze. I am not sure if anybody can hear me or not.
    Mr. Meeks. We hear you, Mr. Chabot.
    Mr. Chabot. I am just frozen here.
    Mr. Meeks. Okay.
    Mr. Chabot. Well.
    Mr. Meeks. Mr. Chabot, can you hear me?
    Mr. Chabot. Maybe we can come back to me, because I assume 
you are probably not hearing me.
    Mr. Meeks. We will come back to Mr. Chabot. So I will go 
right now to Representative Brian Mast of Florida. You are now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Mast. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for recognizing me, and 
thank you to our witnesses for participating today as well. My 
question goes to this, and it is open to any of our witnesses. 
It is a general question for you and----
    Mr. Sherman. I yielded back 29 seconds. I have never done 
that before. Really.
    Mr. Meeks. Mr. Sherman, put yourself on mute, please.
    Mr. Mast. I think he muted. I think we are--it was just a 
quick error. We will get over that one.
    My question goes to our witnesses, generally, and I would 
ask for reflection for America and overcoming our challenges 
with the inception of our Nation and the founding of our 
independence and creating of our democratic systems that we 
rely on here, and what it is that individuals, just off my 
shore as a Floridian, see that draw to come to here in the 
United States of America, which I have a large Haitian 
community as well within my area of south Florida.
    What do you think can be learned and brought back to Haiti 
to help replicate what it is that is drawing people here to our 
shores?
    Ms. Jozef. Thank you so much, Congressman Mast. This is 
Guerline. I would like to take part of the question. First of 
all, you know, we always talk about Haiti being the poorest 
country in the Western Hemisphere, but we always fail to look 
at the root causes of that fact going back 200 years, within 
the relationships, and the fact that from the very inception of 
Haiti, France forced with the international powers to Haiti to 
pay, because we freed ourselves, to pay France for lost wages 
of slavery that was created on our backs. So these are the very 
root causes of Haiti being in the state that it is.
    So we see from there, the continued, you know, in action, 
misaction, and straight-out abuse of Haiti, in Haiti, on Haiti, 
and we see that people leaving. As I previously mentioned, 
Haiti was not a sending country. Haiti was a receiving country, 
lighting the way for freedom not only for Haiti but other 
places. Haiti was the only country that provided citizenship 
for the Jews to escape so that they can get freedom.
    So when we come back to what we experienced earlier this 
year in this great United States of ours, and I must say that I 
am both a proud Haitian woman and a proud American woman, so 
there is a lot to be learned. There is a lot that can be used 
to provide assistance and provide relief in Haiti. I believe 
we----
    Mr. Mast. Thank you for your response, ma'am. I just want 
to pause you and ask you to continue, what is that piece to be 
learned? That is what I want to get at. What is that piece to 
be learned that you just said there is a lot to be learned? 
What is that that needs to be brought back to Haiti to result 
in success?
    Ms. Jozef. Not to be brought back in Haiti, per se, but to 
work with Haiti to be able to create a sustainable, you know, 
solution. When we look into what we have, we are experiencing 
here in the United States, how do we work with the Haitian 
people to implement those things that can be successful so that 
themselves can be able to live for themselves.
    Mr. Mast. Very important point. I want us to work with the 
Haitian people and I think we do do that very well. And there 
is definitely room for improvement, but I know as a Floridian 
this is something that touches us very close to home. I would 
never, however, say that it is not more important, or rather 
that--that it isn't more important that Haitians individually 
within Haiti look in the mirror and say we cannot rely on 
America, we cannot rely on France, we cannot rely on others. We 
are hopeful for their assistance, but we have to look in the 
mirror and say, how do we do this?
    And that is what I hope we can really get to a root of is 
what does Haiti have to look in the mirror and decide is going 
to occur there, whether they get the assistance from the U.S. 
or anybody else. What is it that they can look in the mirror 
and do to correct what is missing there?
    And in that, Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the time. And I 
have nothing to yield back, but thank you for the time.
    Ms. Douyon. Can I add something? Can I reply to that?
    Mr. Meeks. The gentleman's time has expired. The 
gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Mast. The Chairman allows you.
    Mr. Meeks. No, no. I cannot. We have a lot of Members 
waiting to ask questions.
    Ms. Douyon. Because this is so important.
    Mr. Meeks. We will get to it. I will get it when someone 
asks you the question next, maybe Mr. Connolly or someone else. 
But I have got to yield the time now to the President of the 
NATO Parliamentary Assembly, Representative Gerry Connolly of 
the state of Virginia, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our 
panel. You know, part of this discussion, it seems to me, we 
have sort of ignored the America historical context with 
respect to Haiti. And, Ms. Douyon, you may want to comment on 
that as well as Ambassador White. You know, the American 
history with Haiti is wretched.
    After brutal French colonialism was overturned, we refused 
to recognize a black, formerly enslaved government in Haiti 
because it threatened slavery in America in the 19th century. 
We refused commerce. We denied them access to trade and 
investment, credits, and helped to impoverish the country and 
keep it impoverished. We have invaded the country. We have 
occupied the country. And we have installed governments and 
taken down governments, and reinstalled governments.
    And maybe I can start with you, Ambassador White, because 
surely you are aware of that historical perspective. But it is 
not like we--the current condition of Haiti is intrinsically 
dysfunctional. There are historic reasons why it is in the 
condition it is in, and a lot of it can be traced to American 
policy and intervention, very little of it good over the 
panoply of history.
    So given that, shouldn't we tread a little lightly on 
things like conditionality and dictating terms of what Haiti 
needs to do and how best can the United States try to influence 
positive and desirable outcomes in terms of democracy, in terms 
of lifting people out of poverty, in terms of trying to promote 
a more robust, economic growth that benefits everybody?
    Ambassador White and then Ms. Douyon.
    Ms. White. Yes, it is too bad we just do not have three or 
4 hours for discussion because it is a long one, but you are 
right. The history between the United States and Haiti is a 
love-hate affair and has been for a long time. I distinctly 
remember like I was saying, in 1986, when Bebe Dok left and I 
remember sitting in the embassy and the Ambassador Adams, who 
was a fabulous Ambassador, but he said we are going to have 
elections.
    And I remember saying, ``Elections? There is no political 
party. There is no judiciary. There is no police except the 
Tonton Macoute. How in the heck are we going to have 
elections?'' ``That is what we do for a democracy.'' And I 
think, you know, elections ever since have been, you know, 
difficult.
    But we--I know this idea of conditionality is one that 
raises eyebrows, but I do think that if we are not saying 
clearly what it is we are expecting of the Government of Haiti, 
then we do not have a road map and we definitely need a road 
map. Now we might be doing that. I am not in on any 
discussions. I am not part of the core group. No one calls me 
from Haiti--well, my Haitian friends, but not my American 
friends, for advice.
    So I do not know. We may be doing more of that. But they 
deserve to know, you know, what they are getting for their 
money.
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you.
    Ms. Douyon, I know you wanted to respond to both Mr. Mast 
and hopefully my observation as well.
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congressman Connolly. I totally 
agreed with the fact you shared about the history between U.S. 
and Haiti, and it is true that it has been complicated. And to 
reply to Congressman Mast comment, Haiti is not waiting for the 
U.S., France, or any other country in the international 
community. We have already decided what we want to do.
    What we are asking is for the international community to 
listen and respect our choice. We have a President whose term 
ended last February. He has benefited from the support of OAS, 
the U.S. State Department, and despite the fact that most of 
Haiti's civil society acknowledges that his term ended 
according to the Constitution, this is what we are facing now. 
And this is a perfect example of when we do not listen to 
Haitians, we cannot judge them later and blame them for the 
outcome. And it is also important to differentiate between the 
people who always stand for the country and most of the elected 
officials who are usually corrupt and are minding their own 
business and are defending their own interests, usually with 
the support of the international community who is always saying 
that they are supporting institutions, why they are supporting 
people, people who are often decried by their own population.
    This is the perfect case study with Joyenel Moise. But for 
more than 2 years, people have been calling on him to resign. 
Now we are not even calling on him to resign because his term 
ended, we call him to vacate office. And he has the support of 
the international community. We want to end with all those, the 
corruption and impunity. We want to end with the old practices 
and so many people do not want to give this chance to decide 
for ourselves.
    And this is why we are saying, we are having this hearing 
now. This is our point. This is what we are defending, the 
right to decide for ourselves and for the international 
community to listen and follow the Haitian civil society lead, 
because we know better. We know what is good for us. We know 
where we made mistakes in the past. We are learning from this.
    And it is trial and error. It is a young democracy. We are 
learning and we are adjusting, and now is the turning point and 
this is why we need solidarity, not the kind of comment like 
this----
    Mr. Connolly. Thank you for that.
    Mr. Meeks. The gentleman's time----
    Mr. Connolly. I yield back.
    Mr. Meeks. The gentleman's time has expired. I think we are 
still working to get Mr. Chabot on camera, so while we continue 
to do that I will now recognize the Ranking Member of the 
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, Civilian Security, 
Migration, and International Economy Policy, Representative 
Mark Green of Tennessee, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Green. Thank you, Chairman Meeks and Ranking Member 
McCaul, for holding this hearing on Haiti. It is an honor to 
serve as the Ranking Member on Western Hemisphere, and, 
obviously, this focus on Haiti is a critical aspect of our 
subcommittee. I thank Chairman Sires for his comments as well, 
his wisdom and experience.
    When I founded my medical foundation, Align MD Foundation 
and then Two Rivers Medical Foundation, we sent medical 
missions, trips to Haiti. And the country was then challenged 
with poverty, rule of law issues, and governance issues and, 
unfortunately, the situation is only worse now. It is tragic 
for many reasons. History makes it even more so.
    Their first, you know, Haiti's first Constitution was 
influenced by our own Alexander Hamilton who grew up in the 
Caribbean himself. Unfortunately, pervasive corruption and 
desperate poverty have long played the country. It remains one 
of the poorest nations in the Caribbean, lagging far behind its 
neighbors in basic measures of economic and political well-
being. The Haitian people need and deserve better. As a 
neighbor, friend, and partner, we should do what we can.
    But as we have all noted today, it is sadly an uphill 
battle. The turmoil and instability, including the recent 
prison break, underscore the absence of the rule of law. Haiti 
ranks toward the bottom of many international comparisons for 
transparency, economic development, and ease of doing business. 
Sadly, recent events have shown us that Haiti still has a long 
way to go.
    My questions today are really for anyone who wants to chime 
in. We are hearing that the prisons in Haiti are now at 384 
percent capacity and my first thought is that some of these 
arrests may very well be politically motivated, but also are 
seeing large increases in violent crime. Can you share with us, 
any one of the witnesses, about the state of criminal justice 
in Haiti and what portion of those criminals are actually 
criminals versus political prisoners, and also, you know, the 
status of prisons? They are so full, you know, how is that 
impacting criminal justice?
    Ms. Auguste. Thank you very much, Congressman Mark Green. 
We want to take your questions regarding the prison system in 
Haiti. The people who are incarcerated are living an inhumane 
condition. The current prison that we have can hold about 3,000 
people and today we have 12,000 people incarcerated, so then 
you can just imagine the deplorable condition that these 
inmates are in.
    And also given the dysfunction of the judicial system, 
there is a lot of violations of the rights of those inmates 
that are occurring on a regular basis. Like I said earlier, 84 
percent of the incarcerated populations are awaiting trial. 
There are people in there who have been incarcerated for 10 
years and have not seen a judge. The worst thing for us today 
is that yes, indeed, we have political prisoners. They are 
people who are incarcerated because of their political belief 
and their stand against this government.
    So think about someone who spent 10 years in prison without 
appearing before a judge and now individuals will also be 
incarcerated for their political belief what that situation is 
like. It is worsening daily. Unfortunately, no matter what 
promises the government has made, they have done nothing to 
resolve the issue of prolonged detentions for those inmates. 
Thank you.
    Mr. Green. If I could, I would also like to ask the 
Ambassador if she might share a little bit of her perspective 
on the spillover effects of what is going on in Haiti, how it 
is spilling over in the region and the rest of the Caribbean 
and, particularly, neighboring Dominican Republic.
    Mr. Meeks. Ambassador White, please turn on your camera and 
off mute.
    Ambassador White, still with us?
    Ms. White. Can you hear me now?
    Mr. Meeks. Yes, I hear you now.
    Ms. White. Okay, sorry. I have like three devices going 
here and they are all running out of power. Let me just go over 
here.
    Yes, there is always spillover in the region. I mean the 
DR, you know, has a booming economy and the Haitians are going 
back and forth over the border every day. And what is worrying 
me more and would worry me if I was still the Ambassador there, 
is the amount of the huge increase in Haitians trying to get to 
the United States.
    And, you know, they use, you know, means to get there. They 
are highly dangerous, you know, they die all the time. And we, 
you know, the only way to stop immigration whether it is from 
Haiti or Guatemala or wherever, Mexico, is to create better 
conditions in the country so they do not want to leave. And so 
the violence that is going on in Haiti right now, the lack of 
rule of law, the lack of human rights, is driving Haitians out 
of the country to almost anywhere else they can do to get any 
kind of opportunity for their families.
    And then in my statement, I said it is very hard to do 
regular development activities in the midst of a violent 
country so, you know, just one feeds off the other, and that is 
why it is just so critical that the human rights situation, the 
violence, the gangs, that situation has got to be looked at 
immediately because I do not think you can do anything else 
until you stop that.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you.
    Ms. White. Including elections.
    Mr. Green. My time has expired. Thank you, Chairman.
    Mr. Meeks. The gentleman's time has expired. I now 
recognize the Chair of the Subcommittee on Africa, Global 
Health, and Global Human Rights, Representative Karen Bass from 
California, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Bass. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. I actually want to 
continue right with the Ambassador right where she was going, 
because I understood what you said in terms of the gangs and 
all of that. The question is what should we do? I know that we 
have mentioned the police, but it is my understanding that the 
people we have trained, be it the police or the military, they 
are the ones that shot live rounds into the protesters, and it 
is questionable as to whether or not they were colluding with 
the government. So the question to you is, what can we do as 
the United States?
    And then when you were Ambassador, I know that you 
facilitated a number of rounds of negotiations between 
conflicting parties, and I want to know based on your time 
there, what lessons learned? What could you have done to have 
prevented what you saw at the time and what should we be doing 
now?
    Now are you able--can you hear me? Yes, okay. Go ahead.
    I do not want to lose my time with her technical problems. 
Can we----
    Ms. White. Sorry. I have got like three going. They are all 
ready, they just keep----
    Mr. Meeks. Your time is held until such time----
    Ms. Bass. Thank you. Thank you.
    Ms. White. I can hear you. Can you hear me?
    Ms. White. Yes.
    Mr. Meeks. Now we can hear you.
    Ms. White. Do you want me to talk really fast?
    Mr. Meeks. Yes, go now.
    Ms. White. Okay, go. So I, yes, I had lots and lots of 
meetings with the opposition even to the point of getting 
attacked by mobs, I remember. If you are not bringing the 
opposition to the negotiating table then you cannot make 
progress. And I have no idea. I presume that they are doing 
that all the time. You know, you have got to get out of your 
office into their offices and open up the dialog. I just assume 
that is being done, I do not know.
    And it is a good question about the police. That I think 
that we need--we cannot give up on the police. We have invested 
millions of dollars in the police. They can be reinforced. They 
can be--when I--they were in a very good position. We have got 
to get----
    Ms. Bass. Well, you know, I realize we have invested a lot 
of money, but if our investment results in shooting innocent 
people and colluding with the existing government that does not 
sound like a good return on investment to me, so I am just 
wondering if you have a thought. I have a couple of other 
questions for our other witnesses, but if you have a thought as 
to what we can do differently.
    What did you learn during that time what can we do 
differently? I do not want to reinforce an abusive police 
force.
    Ms. White. Yes, right. Right. Yes, yes. Got you.
    Well, like I said, we have got to root out, tell them to 
root out the bad actors. I mean you are right. They have been 
seen shooting into, you know, into crowds. Root out the bad 
actors. We did that before. We did that. There were bad actors 
when I was there too. And we had this fabulous New York 
policeman that would come down and they would do audits. They 
would do interviews. They would do training. And I just think 
we have to go back to that.
    Ms. Bass. All right. Thank you, Madam Ambassador.
    Let me move on to Ms. Douyon. And, you know, one, it is 
clear we do not need to have a referendum for the Constitution, 
the elections are going to be shaky, so the question is what 
should we do? Not change the Constitution, postpone the 
elections, what is it? And I also believe very deeply that we 
need to address root causes. But for right now, if no election, 
then what?
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congresswoman Bass. First of all, 
what you can do is cancel the CEP. Recommend. It is not up to 
you to cancel it. You have to recommend.
    Ms. Bass. Cancel what?
    Ms. Douyon. I said that you have to cancel the CEP, but I 
correct my language and I said, it is not up to you to cancel 
it, it is to not support Joyenel Moise with that CEP. The CEP 
is electoral council. We do not, we cannot continue with an 
illegal electoral council. We cannot have a referendum that is 
illegal and we have to listen to civil society.
    And the solution now is, since the term of the President 
ended last month, we have to consider the nonpartisan 
consensus-based team that is capable of leading the country on 
a nice fair election, restore peace, improve on----
    Ms. Bass. Do you have respected leaders that if the 
President was called on to step aside are their respectable, 
unifying leaders that we could call for should be a part of 
that team that you just mentioned?
    Ms. Douyon. Of course, it would be a disaster if there were 
no qualified, serious, and noncorrupt Haitians capable of 
leading our country.
    Ms. Bass [continuing]. Qualified people, the question is--
--
    Ms. Douyon. Serious and noncorrupt people, yes. They exist. 
People like this exist. There are many people like this. And 
actually there is a consensus among civil society that we can 
have such team, all we need to do is to have Joyenel Moise to 
vacate and----
    Ms. Bass. Can you tell us--my time has run out, but can you 
tell us who those people are, what the team would be? And you 
do not have to answer right this second, but can you send it to 
us?
    Ms. Douyon. I cannot name anyone because of the current 
situation in Haiti. I am afraid if I identify them now they 
might be arrested.
    Ms. Bass. All right.
    Ms. Douyon. Just like the judges.
    Mr. Meeks. The gentlelady's time has expired. The 
gentlelady's time has expired. I now recognize Representative 
Andy Barr from Kentucky for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Barr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I really appreciate 
your leadership on this issue in bringing this issue to the 
attention of our committee. It is such an important issue.
    And I represent in central Kentucky a faith community that 
has invested considerable time and resources in mission trips 
to Haiti. They bring back beautiful stories of a wonderful 
people, yes, impoverished people, people who are struggling, 
but wonderful people who deserve better. And so many churches 
around this country have sponsored mission trips similar to 
those of my constituents and we want the best for the people of 
Haiti. And the very regrettable track record of human rights 
violations and violence and corruption is obviously something 
we are all interested in.
    But let me start by asking Ambassador White kind of a 
fundamental question which is, aside from the obvious 
humanitarian interest that we have in improving the conditions 
in Haiti, what would you say is, if any, the strategic national 
security interest of the United States in that country and is 
it the historic connection between Haiti and Taiwan and 
potentially countering a Chinese Communist Party Belt and Road 
initiative in Haiti?
    Ms. White. Well, that is a real possibility. But I think 
more, you know, more to the point is that if we do not develop 
Haitians and give Haitians a decent quality of living, 
including giving them something to do, you know, employment and 
basic health care and human rights, that we are going to find 
them on our doors in huge numbers and we just are not able to 
do that.
    Mr. Barr. Let me ask you a question about the comment that 
you made, I would really appreciate it, Ambassador, about 
conditionality with foreign aid. And Mr. Connolly's recitation 
of American history with respect to Haiti, you know, the 
American people, American taxpayers, not just in terms of these 
mission trips, but the taxpayers deserve substantial credit and 
generosity here.
    You know, what I am reading is just since the earthquake 
alone, the United States taxpayer has invested $5.1 billion, 
and since 2011, USAID, $1.8 billion, a hundred million in 2020 
alone. I would just argue and, Ambassador, I invite your 
feedback, if U.S. foreign aid was the answer to Haiti's many 
problems, then those problems would have been solved a long 
time ago.
    I mean there absolutely no shortage of American and 
international funding here. It has just been so badly 
mismanaged and subject to corruption. And so, please, amplify 
your testimony about the critical importance of conditionality 
associated with any additional taxpayer investment in Haiti in 
terms of anticorruption efforts.
    Ms. White. Yes, people usually ask about this. And I must 
say that after the earthquake, we had about two billion dollars 
after the earthquake. It killed 300,000 people. I mean 
everything was gone. The port and the roads were gone. The 
airport was gone. And I mean that people kept saying, ``But you 
had two billion dollars.'' And I said, ``I needed 20 billion to 
rebuild the Nation after an earthquake of that size.''
    So though it looks like a tremendous amount of money, it 
is, you know, to rebuild from nothing, believe me, we did a 
fantastic job. We did get Haiti together again. Fifty percent 
of Americans, they emptied out their pockets to help make that 
happen. And by the way, the NGO's and the religious groups get 
a bad name in Haiti, but thank God for the religious NGO's who 
are doing a fabulous job down there----
    Mr. Barr. And reclaiming my time, I do not have much time 
left, Ambassador White, but I do want to followup on 
Representative Sherman's important question about Taiwan. Are 
we seeing an active Belt and Road initiative from the Chinese 
and post-pandemic, a Chinese malign influence in the Caribbean 
impacting Haiti in a way that would, you know, separate Haiti 
as an ally of Taiwan, and as one of only 15 countries 
maintaining official recognition with Taiwan? Is there any 
information you can give us on that?
    Ms. White. I am sorry, but there really isn't. I do not 
know what Taiwan is up to. I do not.
    Mr. Barr. Okay. All right. Well, thank you again, Mr. 
Chairman, for the hearing. It is very illuminating. And I yield 
back.
    Mr. Meeks. The gentleman's time has expired. I now 
recognize the Chair of the Subcommittee on the Middle East, 
North Africa, and Global Counterterrorism, Representative Ted 
Deutch from Florida.
    Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for calling 
this important hearing. Thanks to all the witnesses for your 
candid and powerful testimony. I share the concerns several of 
my colleagues have already expressed over the current situation 
in Haiti. And as a representative of south Florida as my 
colleague from south Florida, Mr. Mast, mentioned a little 
while ago, this is an issue that hits close to home for so many 
in the Haitian diaspora community in my district.
    And I would like to start by continuing the conversation 
about protocol concerns for the proposed elections. I think we 
can all agree elections are sorely needed. We all agree that 
the Haitian people deserve free, fair, and credible elections. 
And I have heard the concerns of our witnesses today that the 
current proposed CEP is illegitimate, even illegal, and I have 
heard similar concerns from Haiti civil society and from the 
diaspora community in my district.
    So, Ms. Auguste, in your view, are there any reforms that 
would make the current provisional electoral council as 
proposed by the administration independent, legitimate, and 
able to administer free, fair, and credible elections?
    Ms. Auguste.
    Ms. Auguste. Yes. Thank you, Congressman Deutch. With 
regard to the current CEP, it is not possible to have election 
with this illegal CEP and we have already enumerated the 
various reason why that cannot happen. Earlier, when I was 
talking about insecurity, I would like to add a few points for 
you to better understand what is going on in the country.
    Today, the Ouest Department and the Artibonite Department 
represent 60 percent of the Haitian electorate. The majority of 
these voters are being housed in the same place where there are 
many gangs, gangs that are associated with the current 
government. That also means all candidates who are not 
associated with those gangs and the government will not be able 
to go into those neighborhoods to campaign.
    Within 2 years, the government made three million electoral 
cards. So far, they have distributed less than two million. 
They were supposed to have done 7,500,000 cards for the voters 
to be able to participate in the election process. If we are 
saying that election will take place in September, that will 
mean in August all the electoral cards have to be distributed. 
It is virtually impossible within the current situations for 
the Haitian Government to realize that.
    Mr. Deutch. Ms. Auguste, I appreciate that. I just have a 
bit, excuse me, a bit more time. So let me just, if I may, 
thank you, and--sorry, everyone. I want to just, given what you 
just said, Ms. Auguste, I just want to address the position 
that has been emphasized by some of our Members and witnesses 
here today, which is that any election or referendum that is 
overseen by the Moise administration would automatically be 
seen by the Haitian people as illegitimate.
    We have seen on the ground, I have heard, firsthand, human 
rights groups and opposition leaders maintaining that Moise's 
term ended February 7th and an interim government is necessary 
to organize elections now. The question, Ambassador White, that 
I have for you is, if the provisional electoral council cannot 
meet the standard of being free, fair, and credible, but the 
current President does not step down, how can Congress and the 
Biden Administration and the international community play a 
responsible role in ensuring that any election that is held is 
credible and legitimate and then facilitating the public 
acceptance of the results and in mediating between the Moise 
administration and the opposition?
    That is what we are trying to do. I think that is what we 
need to do. Ambassador?
    Ms. White. Yes. Well, as I said in my testimony, I think 
that we, you know, it would be nice if he would step down, but 
I do not think that is going to happen. So I think if we sort 
of put him aside, you know, in the best of all worlds, and we 
have a prime minister appointed that is noncorrupt, that is not 
from the political sector, is not from the private sector--
there are several really good candidates. I am not going to 
name them, but there are several--and then we have this summit 
that we get to and we put out the old CEP, we have a summit 
where the actors come back to the table and we discuss how we 
can get the right representation to inform it to have a CEP 
that is credible, I mean that is one solution that I can see 
happening within the very near future.
    I think the problem with transitional governments is then 
we are in that mess again and it slows down everything here. It 
is not that I am--in fact, I wrote a piece, or talked for a 
piece in the New Yorker, a couple years ago, when I said I 
think that is exactly what we need. But I think right now we 
could use the prime minister option.
    Mr. Deutch. Thank you very much. I think my time has 
expired. Thanks, Ambassador. Thanks to all the witnesses. Mr. 
Chairman, thanks for this very important hearing today. Yield 
back.
    Mr. Meeks. And, you are right. The gentleman's time has 
expired. I am going to, after I recognize the next member, I am 
going to ask Representative Levin to Chair the meeting briefly 
as I have to step away to another briefing. But I shall be back 
shortly, but Representative Levin will Chair. I now recognize 
Representative Greg Steube of Florida for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Steube. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    My questions are for Ambassador White. Haiti's poorest 
border with the Dominican Republic is extremely vulnerable to 
illicit trade. Haiti's maritime borders also remain virtually 
unregulated which contributes to economic insecurity. How can 
the Haitian Government increase customs control at its borders?
    Ms. White. Oh, boy. And a good question. Very good 
question. We worked with that so much when I was there and we 
were making progress. A lot of it consulting with people that 
had set up custom border patrols in the United States, and we 
were making some real progress, but then the funding ran out 
and I think it all just went backward.
    But, you know, you can set up honest custom control across 
along the Haitian border if you have enough money to do it and 
that is the big problem. And, you know, especially U.S. Custom 
Patrol people were incredibly knowledgeable, incredibly 
generous with their time in helping us and advising us, and I 
think that that, you know, if you can get that back on track 
again it would be fabulous. And neither.
    Mr. Steube. Well, could you describe how serious this 
problem is to Haiti's future development prospects?
    Ms. White. You know, I have not been to Haiti in 3 years. I 
do not know what is going on right now. I can certainly tell 
you what was going on when I was there, but the migration of 
workers and the migration of goods, and, you know, even though 
there was a major scale-up of migration called disease, is 
something all that really needs to be looked at. At least in my 
tenure it was an enormous problem.
    Mr. Steube. So what could the Biden Administration do to 
help buildup border security there?
    Ms. White. Yes, I think we should go, I mean what we would 
do, you know, is really quite a good strategy in like I think 
we could go back to it very easily, and that is building up 
structures and training. And, you know, not only was it great 
because it was going to increase border security, but it also 
gave an opportunity for wonderful employment opportunity.
    Mr. Steube. Adam Hoffner of the U.S. Border Patrol Miami 
Sector stated, ``We continuously warn migrants about the 
dangers associated with traveling by sea. Smuggling 
organizations are not concerned with the safety of the people 
there smuggling, rather they continue to put the lives of 
migrants at risk.'' What could the Biden Administration do to 
address this issue?
    Ms. White. Well, you know, it all goes back about the core 
reasons that, you know, why are people leaving Haiti to start 
with? And, you know, we went through a period when I was 
Ambassador that migration to the United States was almost zero. 
It was very seldom. And, you know, that is when we were having 
a lot of development dollars and we were pumping a lot of money 
into the economy and lots of jobs were opening up and stuff 
there and we were paying people to, you know, remove the rubble 
and make new roads.
    And so if Haitians, you know, the whole answer is that 
Haitians do not want to migrate.
    Mr. Steube. OK. If there are any Republicans, I am happy to 
yield time if they want more time. If not, I will yield back to 
the Chair.
    Mr. Levin [presiding]. Thank you, Representative Steube. 
The gentleman yields back. I now recognize the gentlewoman from 
Pennsylvania, Representative Wild, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate it. I would 
like to address my first question to Ambassador White. And, you 
know, we have been hearing a lot of frustration about the 
current state of things and money that continues to flow to 
Haiti and so forth, but I want to take a little bit of a 
historical tour with you.
    In 1825, France used the threat of military force to force 
Haiti to make massive financial payments with interest as a 
price for their independence, including the value of enslaved 
people freed. In today's dollars, the amount Haiti was forced 
to pay for its freedom exceeded 20 billion dollars. So my 
questions to you are these, and I will tell you my questions 
and then you can answer them in whatever fashion wish.
    I would like to know what the impact of these payments was 
on Haiti's development and whether you believe that is 
difficult to accurately assess Haiti's current structural 
challenges without factoring in that history. And I would also 
like you to address the fact that in 2015, former French 
President Hollande acknowledged a moral debt toward Haiti, but 
I believe the debt is very tangible, and I am wondering what 
you think France's responsibility is here of whether we and 
other Members of the international community should play a role 
in urging the French Government to seriously address this 
issue.
    That is for Ambassador White. Is she with us?
    Mr. Levin. Ambassador White, could you hear the question? 
She is looking like she does not hear you.
    Ms. White [continuing]. Never got over the fact that--yes.
    Ms. Wild. I am sorry. I did not--okay, but we cannot hear 
you. If you----
    Ms. White. Can you hear me?
    Ms. Wild. Yes, could you start----
    Mr. Levin. Try again. Try again, Ambassador White. Go 
ahead.
    Ms. Wild. Okay.
    Ms. White. Can you hear me now?
    Ms. Wild. Yes.
    Ms. White. Can you hear me? I am not on mute.
    Ms. Wild. I can hear you.
    Ms. White. I am not on mute.
    Ms. Wild. Mr. Chair, can I reclaim a little bit of my time 
in relation to that?
    Mr. Levin. Yes, go ahead.
    Ms. Wild. Ambassador, we can hear you. Go ahead, please.
    She cannot hear me.
    Ms. White. Let me stop the video.
    Ms. Wild. Okay. Did you hear my question?
    Ms. White. Now can you hear--yes, I was always shocked--
yes, I did.
    Ms. Wild. Okay, go ahead.
    Ms. White. Yes, so I was always shocked that Haiti was made 
to pay those reparations. It was amazing to me. And, you know, 
actually, interestingly enough, the French had played a role in 
Haiti but they do not play as big of role that you always 
thought they probably would.
    During my time in West Africa, the French were the major 
donors and the major players in West Africa and that is where 
their major international interest in the Third World is today. 
So I just do not enough about why France does not play a bigger 
role in Haiti, to tell you the truth, but they have not for a 
long time.
    Ms. Wild. Well, in your opinion, do you believe that we 
should be urging the French Government to address this issue?
    Ms. White. Sure.
    Ms. Wild. Okay. I am going to move if--I cannot see the 
timer, Mr. Chair, but I assume I have another couple of 
minutes.
    Mr. Levin. Yes, another couple of minutes. Go ahead.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you so much.
    So I would like to direct this to Ms. Jozef. Our 
immigration system has treated Asians, excuse me, Haitians 
differently than immigrants of other nationalities in the 
region, particularly Cuba and Venezuela, including by limiting 
access to asylum. And we have not recognized, historically, 
Haitians as facing political persecution.
    Could you talk about how the U.S. response to Haitian 
migration has shaped our own immigration rules and processes?
    Ms. Jozef. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Congresswoman 
Wild. The reality is we can look back as I mentioned 
previously, the immigration prison system as we know, it 
started, created for incarcerating Haitian refugees in the 
1980's fleeing political unrest and political abuse and 
persecution. And as we see today, the majority of the people 
who have fled are directly connected with political unrest, 
lack of security, and also the aftermath of the earthquake, the 
storms, the cholera that we continue to see today.
    So yes, as black immigrants we know very well how Haitian 
migrants, Haitian asylum seekers have always been treated 
unfairly. As we are looking today, we have Haitian migrants who 
have been waiting at the border between a year and a half to 5 
years. They have literally been waiting. The majority of the 
children that are being deported and expelled at the U.S. 
Mexican border right now are children who were born on the way, 
whether in Brazil, in Chile, in Venezuela, and in Mexico. Yes, 
black immigrants, particularly Haitian immigrants, have always 
been treated unfairly comparing to other people.
    So now you mention Venezuela. We applaud the demonstration, 
you know, providing CPS for Venezuela as we are looking in the 
middle of the unrest and chaos, political unrest and chaos in 
Haiti, yet we do not see where this designation of CPS for 
Haiti.
    So we understand that anti-Black and racism is also 
ingrained in every system and every part of who we are as a 
people as a country, but that is why we are imploring and 
demanding that we break away from the same way of treating 
Haitian immigrants, understanding the value in what we as a 
people contribute to the United States. When--[Audio 
malfunction.]--to today elected officials and people fighting 
on behalf of this Nation.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Thank you, 
Mr. Chair. I yield back.
    Mr. Levin. I now recognize for 5 minutes, the gentlewoman 
from California, Congresswoman Kim.
    Ms. Kim of California. I think I am unmuted now.
    Mr. Levin. There you go, yes. Thank you.
    Ms. Kim of California. Thank you.
    Mr. Levin. Go ahead.
    Ms. Kim of California. Thank you, Congressman Levin, and I 
want to thank all of our witnesses for joining us today. You 
know, for years, as it is has been noted, Haiti has been the 
second largest recipient of the U.S. assistance in the Western 
Hemisphere. We have provided over $172 million allocated in 
Fiscal Year 2020. But despite these enormous amounts of 
financial assistance from multiple U.S. agencies and 
international aid organizations, Haiti remains the poorest and 
least developed nation in the Western Hemisphere.
    So question to you, Ms. Douyon, could you provide insight 
as to which of our agencies is doing the most effective and 
efficient job in spending U.S. taxpayer dollars in raising that 
standard of living in Haiti and, additionally, which incentives 
are in need of reform or refocusing?
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congresswoman Kim. I will let maybe 
someone like Ambassador White comment on the work of the U.S. 
Government entities, but my comment will be that several or 
many people raised this concern about the amount of money sent 
to Haiti in general development assistance and the lack of 
result.
    And I will say that it is not about the money, the amount 
of money you spend to Haiti, it is about how it is spent, where 
it spent, who will get the money to do what, and there is a 
huge problem of the way we allocate that in Haiti. It does not 
go to the real project. And this is also, it was not with the 
U.S. Government money or United States taxpayer money, but it 
happened with Venezuela, the people cried because they helped 
us, they sent us a lot of money and that money was mismanaged, 
and this was like the largest corruption scandal in the 
country.
    It will happen with any other kind of development 
assistance fund until we send a clear signal that we are 
fighting corruption. And this is exactly what we are doing now 
in Haiti and until we do that, you can send money, the U.S. can 
help send almost whatever the amount of money they want. The 
same thing will happen.
    Ms. Kim of California. Thank you so much. Given the limited 
time, I would like to pivot to Ambassador White, if you have 
any input on this and can I hear your thoughts on this?
    Ms. White. Yes. I think, like I said before that, you know, 
the tremendous amount of money that we are allocating to Haiti 
now is going to humanitarian aid, food aid, basic health aid, 
education, and I think that that is all critical. We do not 
give money to the Haitian Government directly. We explored that 
when I was there. We realized that there was just too much 
corruption in the government and so we do not do that and we 
should not.
    Ms. Kim of California. All right. You know, I would like to 
touch on the lack of infrastructure in Haiti impacting the 
accessibility to basic services. You know, as you say, we can 
pour as much money as we want into Haiti but, you know, and try 
to help them improve medical treatment or nutrition, but if 
Haitians are unable to reach food banks because of the poorly 
constructed roads or access medical care due to poorly 
constructed hospitals, this money will be concentrated in the 
city centers and leave much of the country to on its own.
    So how is the U.S. cooperating with Haiti on the 
infrastructure projects to ensure that aid reaches the 
populations that need it the most and which agencies are best 
suited to accomplish this job?
    Ambassador White, are you still on there?
    Ms. White. Yes. Sorry, sorry. I did not know if you were 
asking me or not. I do not know, currently, what is going on in 
that direction in Haiti. I wish I did, but I do not. When I was 
there, the PEPFAR money that both AID and CDC ran, you know, 
was doing a tremendous amount of trying to get money to every 
clinic across the Nation. And, you know, we had at least two or 
three hundred clinics that we were working with, you know, 
increasing training to the nurses, getting the right drugs to 
these clinics, and I do not know if that is still ongoing or 
not. I believe that it is.
    But the problem is just as you say. Even if you have a 
clinic and, you know, Village X, if people are having problems 
accessing that village, then you still have a problem. But any 
kind of infrastructure improvement of the roads is a 
multibillion-dollar project and there is just not enough money 
for that. Not U.S. money.
    Ms. Kim of California. Let me put in one more question. I 
know I want to touch on the human rights situation. Ms. 
Auguste, as everyone here has testified that the human rights 
situation on the ground in Haiti is dire and unstable. The rise 
in violence against vulnerable populations through homicide, 
kidnapping, and sexual violence is clearly----
    Mr. Levin. Representative Kim, your time has expired. It is 
really--do you have a very, very quick question for Ms. 
Auguste----
    Ms. Kim of California. Yes, yes.
    Mr. Levin [continuing]. Like in 10 seconds?
    Ms. Kim of California. May I ask that the gentleman from 
Florida, Mr. Steube, can I ask how much time he had left to 
yield?
    Mr. Levin. His time is expired, Ms. Kim.
    Ms. Kim of California. Okay, let me just--yes. May I finish 
my question then?
    Mr. Levin. I will come back to you if there is time at the 
end, but we----
    Ms. Kim of California. Okay.
    Mr. Levin. There is still a lot of people who want to ask 
questions.
    Ms. Kim of California. All right, thank you.
    Mr. Levin. If that is okay. Yes, thanks so much. All right, 
and actually it is my turn now to ask my questions. I want to 
thank Chairman Meeks and Ranking Member McCaul. I just cannot 
tell you how pleased I am that the two of you called this 
hearing on the full committee level. I know that Chairman Sires 
of the Subcommittee agrees with me that a whole committee 
hearing shows a level of concern that is truly warranted for 
this crisis in Haiti.
    I want to make clear before I begin, one thing for the 
record. I am grateful to all the people who are testifying 
before us, and I know witnesses could face intimidation or 
threats because of your honest testimony. I have zero tolerance 
for that and I request that any witness who experiences any 
form or retaliation for your testimony, please alert the 
committee immediately. Your willingness to appear and your 
candor are essential to our work and your well-being is a 
priority for us and I think I probably speak for every member 
here on that.
    Second, I want to emphasize that we have already made a 
little history in this hearing today. We have real bipartisan 
agreement here, which is often helpful and powerful in 
effective congressional input to change the direction of U.S. 
foreign policy. Our bipartisan panel of witnesses has made it 
perfectly clear that both a constitutional referendum and 
elections organized under de facto President Moise will not 
work and will not be seen as legitimate by the Haitian people.
    Ranking Member McCaul stated in his usual straightforward 
way his agreement with this position, so this hearing is truly 
providing the basis for a new way forward for U.S. policy. The 
panel has already made clear that Haitian civil society broadly 
considered Mr. Moise's term to have ended on February 7th, 
2021, that he is widely considered illegitimate by the Haitian 
people, that the CEP he created unilaterally is not legal or 
legitimate, and that Haiti needs not simply elections but the 
conditions that can lead to legitimate elections.
    The United States needs to stop talking about squabbling 
between politicians and listen to human rights, business, 
labor, legal, and other civil society groups. These groups are 
actually trying to come together to create a plan that would 
work to restore the rule of law and a path to democracy. So 
following Congresswoman Bass, let's talk about the way forward.
    Ms. Douyon, can you briefly explain how Haiti has had 
transitional governments before and what a broad cross-section 
of Haitian groups believe should happen now?
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congressman Levin. We have had 
transitional government before because even in the past, 
elected leaders failed to organize election, timely election, 
so we have to fill the void. And we had it in 2004, we had it 
in 2015, and this time around is the same problem. Joyenel 
Moise, despite the fact that he enjoyed a comfortable majority 
in parliament, failed to organize election. So now we have to 
replace the parliament, we have to elect local officials, and 
we have to elect a new President because his term ended.
    So a traditional government will have, we start democratic 
order, will have improved overall security situation and 
organized election, and----
    Mr. Levin. Can I just ask? I do not know if I--if Ms. 
Auguste is still here, but if so, I would like her to weigh in 
on my last minute on whether she, you know, if she can add to 
what you said or whether she agrees with you, to see if the 
panel broadly agrees on this.
    Can you hear me? Okay, go ahead.
    Ms. Auguste. Yes. I hear you very well. Thank you very 
much, Congressman Levin. I would like to start with the 
threats, so especially those of us who are in the human rights 
community, generally. However, the people who are living in the 
impoverished communities who pull themselves together to stand 
against the human rights violations and against this 
unconstitutional government are threatened by them.
    One thing that I would like to emphasize on is that us 
within the Haitian civil society, we realize that it is the 
international community that allows Joyenel Moise to continue 
to remain at the palace. The impunity is so daring that on 
February 13 they arrest Fednel Monchery, who has already been 
cited in the La Saline massacre, they release him a few hours 
thereafter. That means we cannot count on this government to go 
by security and ensure that the population gets what they need. 
Like Chairman Meeks has said before, the former President 
Joyenel Moise have lost all credibility and is not able to 
govern the country at the moment.
    Mr. Levin. All right, I am afraid my time has expired and I 
am going to hold myself to the same rules. So if we have time 
later, Ms. Auguste, we will come back to you.
    And now my understanding, there are not currently any of 
our Republican colleagues who wish to ask questions and that 
means I get to turn it over to my esteemed colleague from 
Pennsylvania, Representative Houlahan, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Houlahan. Thank you, Representative Levin, and I 
appreciate the opportunity to ask questions.
    My first question is for Ms. Douyon. I was hoping to be 
able to dive a little bit deeper into the role that women can 
play in policy discussions in Haiti around governance and 
around constitutional reform and how can we here in the U.S. 
and in this body help to promote women's participation in the 
government, in the Haitian Government and its civil society?
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congresswoman Houlahan. I do not 
know if I pronounce it correctly.
    Ms. Houlahan. You did.
    Ms. Douyon. And as a feminist myself, I believe women have 
a large role to play in Haiti politics and this is actually the 
case already, but much is needed to be done. And I also need to 
acknowledge that several feminist organizations were concerned 
over the situation in Haiti, the current situation in Haiti. 
Women need to be represented in the electoral council, but what 
happened is that respected organizations refused to adhere to a 
process that was then legal, and the government picked some 
other women from organization that no one knows about to 
consider that electoral council.
    And what happen is that you have organization that are 
legitimate and recognized that have been underground for many 
years. They are not involved and they are left behind in the 
process. And they kept saying it, and there is several press 
note. And the civil society in their plan to have a 
transitional government actually specified that there need to 
be a quota of women because several times they violated this in 
the law, we need to have at least 30 percent of women, but many 
times they do not follow--they do not respect this quota and 
they are advocating for it.
    And we believe, and even for the new constitution that puts 
us because it is not legal, those respected organizations are 
not involved, but in the future when the society will agree to 
make change to the Constitution maybe we will have provision 
for increased women participation in Haiti politics.
    Ms. Houlahan. Is there anything that you can think of that 
we can be doing to be helpful in driving that process?
    Ms. Douyon. Yes. First of all, maybe you can question why 
does legitimate organization are not involved, and how you can 
have--you can do anything with including women and those who 
have been defending women's rights in the country for so many 
years. And I think we can start here and later making sure that 
whether it is in terms of the local system or anything that or 
any decision that is being taken, if women are on the table, 
because it is very important that we do not have the kind of 
situation where only men are deciding what is the fate of the 
country.
    And just, and I have to note that there is something really 
positive happening with the young activists, organizers, and 
like mine has many women involved and we are actually ensuring 
that we are equally qualified and we can have like leadership 
position, we can assume our responsibility just like men, and 
there is no reason we shouldn't have equal opportunities.
    Ms. Houlahan. Agreed. And I am not sure, Representative 
Levin, how much time more time that I have.
    Mr. Levin. A minute-twenty.
    Ms. Houlahan. All right, great. With my minute-twenty, I 
would like to direct my last question to Ms. Auguste. My 
question is how can we best be utilizing our relationships in 
Latin America and the Caribbean to help support democracy in 
Haiti? What can we be doing to be helpful there and what 
international organizations are most useful? And thank you.
    Ms. Auguste. Okay, thank you, Congresswoman Houlahan. I 
think there is a lot of things that the U.S. can do to change 
their relationships with Haiti. First and foremost, I think the 
U.S. administration needs to listen to the Haitian civil 
society who have a lot of recommendations and demand that they 
can share with them that can be significant to the chance that 
we are seeking.
    With your permission, I would like to quickly address the 
issue of women's participation within the elections system.
    Ms. Houlahan. Representative Levin, I do not know if I have 
the time for that, but perhaps we could go back to that?
    Mr. Levin. No, you have a bit of time left. It is a little 
different when there is translation because they stop the clock 
for the translation.
    Ms. Houlahan. Oh, Okay. Okay.
    Mr. Levin. So do not worry. I will stop you. Go ahead.
    Ms. Auguste. Okay, thank you. One thing that I would like 
to add is that the current insecurity that we have will not 
allow women to participate in this election neither as 
candidate or as voters. At the same time, the Haitian political 
parties have to come and put forward the mechanisms to allow 
women to be able to participate fully in the electoral process.
    Mr. Levin. And with that--oops. With that, I think we have 
to move on. I am sorry. Again, if we have more time, we will 
come back. It is such a rich conversation. And I will just 
point out that all four of our panelists and our translator are 
women and they are doing an outstanding job in this hearing, 
whatever that, you know, whatever that means.
    Ms. Houlahan. I yield back. Thank you.
    Mr. Levin. And, Mr. Fitzpatrick, if you have questions, you 
are up next, or if you want to wait because I know you just 
popped on.
    Mr. Fitzpatrick. Thank you, Mr. Levin. If Representative 
Young Kim is still on, I am happy to yield my time to her. I 
know she was looking for extra time.
    Mr. Levin. Yes, she was. I do not know if she is or not. I 
do not see her name. We will wait a minute.
    All right, well, you know, we can come back to that as 
well. So let me recognize the gentlewoman from Nevada, 
Representative Titus, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Titus. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. It has been 
indeed an interesting conversation. And I would like to shift a 
little to maybe Ms. Jozef and ask her about the refugee 
situation.
    One of President Biden's first actions in office was to 
sign an executive order rescinding some of the Trump 
administration's immigration enforcement policies and he also 
directed Homeland Security to reexamine our own policies and 
priorities. DHS instituted a hundred-day pause on deportation 
with limited exceptions during this review process, but a legal 
challenge, unfortunately, lifted that pause so deportations are 
continuing.
    I just wonder if the Haitian Government is doing anything 
to ensure the safety of returning individuals, many of whom 
left saying they feared for their lives because of the gang 
violence throughout the country.
    Ms. Jozef. Thank you so much, Representative Titus. The 
reality is even when President Biden's moratorium did not cover 
the expulsion of migrants under Title 42, which is the CDC 
Title, and we are asking for that Title to be rescinded so that 
we can provide protection for the most vulnerable people.
    I also would like to mention that it is extremely 
concerning for the Haitian President, for the Haitian 
Government to be agreeing to receive a people who have 
literally fled due to violence, due to political unrest, and 
due to persecution. As I mentioned during my first opening, one 
of the women who was kidnapped and raped and fled was returned 
to Haiti and is currently in hiding unable to leave her house 
because of fear that what will happen to her.
    So with all of that being said, what is happening with the 
migration, what is happening at the border with the 
deportation, with expulsion, we are asking for all of that to 
stop because it is unbelievable. And we believe that it is 
borderline criminal for the Haitian Government to be receiving 
people in these conditions at the present moment.
    And would also like to highlight that even people who were 
not born in Haiti have been deported to Haiti. We are demanding 
accountability on both sides, from the U.S. side and our 
Haitian side, understanding it is a sending and receiving 
relationship and we are asking for that to stop immediate.
    Ms. Titus. So are NGO's involved in that whole process with 
you either through the courts in legal cases or advocating for 
some of these people who have returned?
    Ms. Jozef. We are advocating. However, when people are 
returned to Haiti, it is extremely impossible for them to get 
any type of relief when they are returned, released with 
nothing, and they have to find a way to fend for themselves, to 
go into hiding, to try to find another way so that they can 
probably even leave the country again. There is absolutely no 
relief, no protection for people who are being returned to 
Haiti at this moment.
    Ms. Titus. Sounds like that is something that we may be 
able to look into to provide some help at our end.
    Ms. Jozef. We definitely have, not just had looked, but we 
must provide help now and we must provide, you know, a way for 
people to legally, safely get protection in asking asylum. We 
must redesignate a CPS for Haiti to cover those who are here 
and really, really to make sure that we have a strong Haitian 
American community.
    Ms. Titus. Thank you very much. Just a little bit of time 
left, I would like to ask about education in Haiti. We have a 
figure that one of every two Haitians age 15 and over is 
illiterate, yet we know education is the way to get out of 
poverty to create a better future. Is there anything that we 
can do to help, or to help NGO's or help any of you, help with 
the expanding education opportunities?
    Anybody?
    Ms. Auguste. Thank you very much, Congresswoman Titus. 
Today, education is a problem just like all the other issues 
that we are dealing with. The current educational system we 
have does not provide a good system for everybody to learn idea 
quickly, and it is also not a system that is fair to able to 
address everyone's problems regarding so whatever discrepancies 
or challenges that they may have.
    We also have a system that is corrupted because there was 
the national educational funds that was created by the Martelly 
government. Money is taken from the Haitian diaspora on a 
regular basis. No report has been given on that money and it 
has not been utilized to assist the Haitian children to make 
sure attending school.
    Mr. Levin. And again, I need to step in and say the 
gentlewoman's time has expired. But again, that answer is on 
such an important question. I understand----
    Ms. Wild. Thank you, Chairman.
    Mr. Levin. Thanks, Representative Titus. I understand that 
even school children now are being at risk of kidnappings which 
is just incredible.
    Now let me recognize my wonderful colleague from the state 
of Minnesota for 5 minutes, Representative Omar, for her 
questions.
    Ms. Omar. Thank you so much for calling this important 
meeting, Chairman. I am especially grateful that we have the 
opportunity to hear directly from folks who are being impacted 
by our policies. I wanted to start with--direct my question to 
Ms. Auguste.
    The last President changed U.S. policy to make it easier 
for American gun manufacturers to export guns to other 
countries including Haiti. Many of us are pushing for our new 
President to reverse this. In Haiti, how do gangs and organized 
crime get their guns, and do guns--do these guns used to commit 
violence in Haiti mostly come from the United States?
    Ms. Auguste. Thank you very much, Congresswoman Omar. I 
will start by answering your question. Yes, there are a lot of 
weapons that arrive on the Haitian territory that comes from 
the U.S. They come from our different various ports. There are 
also other weapons that enter the country through our borders 
because both our ports at the borders are just open.
    There was a resolution that was taken that Haiti should not 
be entering weapons in the country. Despite the fact that there 
is an arms embargo on Haiti, to this day no authorities in the 
Haitian Government can tell us where these weapons are coming 
from and who is entering them in the country. It is the gangs 
who said that they are better armed than the Haitian National 
Police, and that is why we are saying that the Haitian National 
Police is currently weakened and politicized.
    Ms. Omar. Thank you for your answer.
    And to Ms. Douyon, should the United States be supporting 
elections in Haiti this year regardless of the context and, in 
your opinion, what are the changes that election in Haiti this 
year, what are the chances that the elections this year would 
be free, fair, and legitimate?
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congresswoman Omar. If the United 
States want to waste money and support the new political 
crisis, yes, they can invest in election in Haiti this year. 
Otherwise, the best alternative will be to listen to civil 
society who could indicate when it is OK to hold election. 
Because with gangs member we have--our President does is acting 
like a strongman in clear violations of human rights and many 
areas are under gang control, there isn't any possibility that 
we could have fair and inclusive elections. Who can campaign 
without gang support, and we do not want the kind of officials 
that have gang support to be elected or--but if we call 
elections now, those people are the one who have real advantage 
by the current insecurity and climate of fear that is going on 
in Haiti.
    And also we need to audit the electoral system and we have 
an illegal electoral council. All those problems need to be 
solved if we want to have election that could lead us to the 
chance that the Haitian people deserve.
    Ms. Omar. I really appreciate your answer.
    And to Ms. Jozef, I know that you have just addressed this 
question in regards to deportations. I am wondering if you can 
maybe expand on how these deportations are impacting the 
situation on the ground in Haiti especially in the context of 
the COVID pandemic.
    Ms. Jozef. Thank you so much, Congresswoman Omar. Thank you 
so much for being here. The reality is we started asking to 
stop deportations and expulsions to Haiti under Title 42 back 
in March when we realized that was going to be a major 
catastrophe for Haiti with a lack of infrastructure for medical 
care. And I also want to highlight that the numbers that are 
being seen or reported are not actual numbers. So in Haiti, 
there is no way for people to literally know how many people 
have been affected and died from COVID, for many different 
reasons.
    However, we also understand that in May 2020, we had words 
that at least three of those people who were deported to Haiti, 
upon arriving in Haiti tested positive for COVID-19. And I 
personally saw a spike in COVID-19 as relation to this flight. 
We also understand that a lot of people that were deported to 
Guatemala also were tested positive for COVID-19 upon arrival 
in their home country.
    So this is a major concern as we understand transfers 
between detention centers and prison and flight carries over 
the grave, grave injustice that can be seen when it comes to 
medical assistance and medical care. So that is why we are 
asking for the stopping of those expulsion and those 
deportation in the spirit of good neighbor or in the spirit of 
protecting in health care.
    Ms. Omar. Thank you all for your wonderful insights. Thank 
you, Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you. The gentlewoman yields back. Now to 
the first of our fabulous freshwomen, the gentlewoman from 
California, Representative Jacobs.
    Ms. Jacobs. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you to 
all of our witnesses for being here. This has been incredibly 
interesting and I share my colleagues' concerns about the 
current situation. But I wanted to ask Ms. Douyon a question.
    You know, I too have been part of conversations around 
Haiti for many years where we have been having similar 
conversations over and over again, but I noticed that in your 
opening you said that you think this is not the same moment as 
other crises and that we have an opportunity to fundamentally 
change things. And I was wondering if you could elaborate on 
why you think that is the case and what specifically it would 
take so that this really would fundamentally change things and 
we would not continue this cycle.
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congresswoman Jacobs. I think we 
could only go back to maybe the time when we were fighting 
dictatorship to find the same spirit that is going on in Haiti 
now that called for change, that the involvement of so many 
different kind of people. For example, speaking on behalf of 
the collective of angry citizens who have never done politics 
before, we were never involved so actively in activities then.
    But back in 2018, we have noticed that something needed to 
be done, like we needed to be involved to save what is left to 
be saved of Haiti, and this is why we are doing it and we have 
been doing it constantly since 2018. And this is because of 
people like us in Nou Pap Domi, the people challenging, those 
people who fought dictatorship and are still fighting the ways 
of dictatorship, now that I believe that something different is 
happening.
    We are tired, like there is a--no one want to keep going 
with the same cycle and it is obvious that the system that we 
are fighting can no longer renew itself. For like 4 years in 
power, the President, despite the fact that he has a 
comfortable majority, he has not been able to achieve anything. 
Like he has not been able to satisfy any need from the 
population and he does not even have like support as to go on 
the street to say, we are with him, we are supporting him.
    Like everyone realized like the majority of people, there 
is a broad consensus that we need to change something if we 
want to develop this country. And I believe that this new era 
can start now, and this is why we are asking for the U.S. 
Government to recognize that the civil society is taking the 
lead, to recognize that this time around is different, and they 
need to be on the side of change.
    Ms. Jacobs. Thank you. Thank you so much.
    And then I would like to ask if Ambassador White is still 
on, what she thinks the United States can learn from its 
previous interventions and in terms of how we should approach 
things differently. And, you know, I know you talked about 
conditioning aid and some other things, but I guess what I am 
just trying to make sure is that we do not like do the same ten 
things we have done in every think-tank report we have had 
since the earthquake, and then have this same hearing again in 
3 years from now when it does not work.
    Ms. White. Thank you. Yes, I do think we have a unique 
opportunity right now to get tough. And, you know, when I look 
back even when the, you know, some of the final months of when 
I was in Haiti, because we were going through the same, you 
know, the powers that there was no parliament. The CEP was 
first made up of a cast of characters that weren't acceptable, 
but we got it right, finally. But I think we have to hold their 
feet to the fire and we have to be tough and we have to be 
outspoken and I think the Biden Administration is ready to do 
that. I hope so.
    But let me just mention one other thing that I, during this 
hearing, could not tell if it was a Republican or a Democrat 
asking the questions. And I, normally, I am really good at 
that. So congratulations to you, because I really do feel that 
this is a bipartisan committee hearing and thank you for that.
    Ms. Jacobs. Well, thank you. And with that, Mr. Chair, I 
yield back.
    Mr. Levin. And I believe Mr. Meeks is back to take the 
gavel back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Levin. I now recognize the Vice 
Chair of the Subcommittee of the Middle East, North Africa, and 
Global Counterterrorism, Representative Kathy Manning of North 
Carolina, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you, Chairman Meeks. I want to thank all 
of the witnesses for their testimony today and I am delighted 
that we have had this hearing so early in this session of 
Congress. The situation that was described by all the witnesses 
was, is heartbreaking and discouraging.
    And we have talked at length about the political situation, 
Ambassador White, you had some very specific suggestions of 
things that could be done to address the political situation 
and I am wondering if you have similarly specific 
recommendations for steps the U.S. could take to improve the 
economic situation in Haiti.
    Ms. White. Yes, I do. I think, overall, USAID, it has 
always been my contention that we should spend more money on 
getting people jobs because countries do not move forward 
without jobs. But in order to get people into jobs, we need to 
do some--pay attention to at least giving people skills that 
they can use to rebuild the country.
    And when I was head of USAID in Liberia, we had this 
fabulous program that linked literacy skills with basic skills 
in electricity, in brickmaking and building, with car 
mechanics, et cetera, et cetera, so that we could--we taught 
people literacy at the same time we were training them in basic 
skills with unrelated skills and
    [inaudible] Congress has been over and over very reluctant 
to give money to job training skills, and I think that is a 
mistake.
    Ms. Manning. Would any of the other witnesses like to 
comment on that? I am looking for specific ways the U.S. can 
help improve the economic situation in Haiti.
    Ms. Douyon. Representative Manning, if you allow me to add 
a few points, if we want to improve the economic situation in 
Haiti, there is a need to attract investment, but we cannot 
attract investment if the current President is still 
undermining rule of law and if the other law security situation 
is still as whatever it is.
    This is why so many people do not come to invest in Haiti 
and we cannot have like people in the diaspora coming back home 
to improve, to work, to invest, and this is one--we cannot 
disassociate the economic situation from the political and 
social situation and which will improve and solve this 
political crisis.
    If we want to attract investment, restore peace so that 
economic activists can thrive, because what is happening now 
with people who like fearing to even leave their house, there 
is great concern that we could see any improvement anytime 
soon.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you. Yes?
    Ms. Jozef. I would like to briefly add that again we need, 
as my fierce justice warrior Emmanuela mentioned, we need to 
look at the root causes of where we are right now and really, 
you know, work with the people of Haiti to create the 
infrastructure that is needed in order for us to move forward, 
including education, including access to health care, including 
rebuilding a culture, which open, which Haiti has always 
flourished.
    Sending rice to Haiti, sending all those things, that all 
literally diminished the farming industry. We need to look into 
building sustainable structural in Haiti from education to 
access to health care, to farming, to our culture so that we as 
the Haitian people can reclaim their place and really create a 
system where people will be able to stay at home safe and 
others can come in and then investing into the community as 
well.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you.
    And, Ms. Ducena, would you like to comment on that as well?
    Ms. Auguste. Yes. Thank you so much, Congresswoman Manning. 
The economic situation has currently ties to the social 
political crisis that we are dealing with.
    If you do not have political ability, you cannot have 
economic stability just like my colleague Jozef and Douyon have 
already explained. The first step we need to take in terms of 
changing the economic situations in Haiti is to once 
acknowledge Article 134-2 from the Constitution. It had 
demanded for former President Joyenel Moise as ended on 
February 7th, 2021, then the country can work toward building a 
greater nation.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you.
    Ms. Manning. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has expired. I 
now recognize the Vice Chair of the Subcommittee on Western 
Hemisphere, Civilian Security, Migration, and International 
Economic Policy, Representative Juan Vargas from California, 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Vargas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I hope you can 
hear me. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you very much for this 
hearing. Being toward the end here, I have had the opportunity 
to listen to not only our presenters but also all the questions 
from our colleagues. And I have to tell you, I do not know what 
we should do, I really do not.
    But I know that what we should not do, we should not deport 
Haitians back to Haiti. That is what we should not do. We 
should not do that. And why should not we do that? From all the 
testimony that we heard here people are afraid to go buy 
groceries. People are afraid to get out money to get on the 
bus. People are afraid to make even small buys of anything 
because the gangs figure out they have money and they will get 
kidnapped to take that money away. They have closed some of the 
schools not so much even for the fear of COVID-19, but because 
children and their parents get kidnapped.
    We should not deport people back into that situation. That 
is outrageous. The administration should allow them to stay and 
until the situation changes in Haiti. Now I have to say also, 
in my own opinion, I could be wrong, but I think it is also 
discrimination and I think it is discrimination because 
Haitians are black. I think that that is a reality. I think 
that there is a terrible discrimination going on here that 
shouldn't happen.
    So anyway, I think we should urge the administration to 
quit deporting people back to Haiti. I mean does anyone agree 
with me at all? I mean isn't--how about Ms. Douyon? Do you 
agree that we should not deport people back to Haiti?
    Ms. Douyon. I agree. I agree that even though the 
conditions in Haiti right now it is not fair to deport people 
back to Haiti, and if we really want to avoid dealing with this 
kind of situation like having people migrating illegally to the 
United States we need to support efforts to restore peace in 
Haiti and make Haiti livable for the people.
    Mr. Vargas. And I agree with that. I mean I think we need 
to do all we can to help Haiti. I am completely in favor of 
that. But I just do not understand why we are deporting 
Haitians back to Haiti in these conditions. That does not make 
any sense to me. That does not make any sense. And also we have 
been talking about how to have fair and free elections that, 
you know, we cannot trust the situation as it is right now to 
have free and fair elections. I agree with that.
    I think that will take some time to sort out, but in the 
meantime, why are we deporting people? I mean that does not 
make any sense to me and that is something I think that we 
should put pressure on this administration. This administration 
has the opportunity to do that. I mean they do it for Cubans. 
They do it for Venezuelans, for others. Why not for Haitians?
    Ms. Jozef. Congressman Vargas, thank you so much for making 
those points.
    Mr. Vargas. Yes.
    Ms. Jozef. The reality is, we absolutely believe that it is 
anti-black racism play a big part of why people are being 
deported to Haiti and also the fact that we continue to see 
some type of support to the current administration in Haiti. 
And as I mentioned before, it is borderline criminal for both, 
you know, the U.S. sending people in for Haiti to be receiving 
people.
    We are asking as you have said, to provide a safe and 
welcoming, you know, a plan for those people who have left, who 
have ran, and have literally been at the border between a year 
and a half to 5 years. It is unconscionable to see the 
condition that black people continues to be treated, not only 
in the United States but around the world.
    And we see a direct relation between how they are deporting 
people to Haiti under the rules of Title 42, which literally 
allow people to be tested negative before being deported based 
on what ICE is saying. It is absolutely no reason for the 
United States after President Biden promised the Haitian 
American community that he was going to lead the way, we cannot 
continue to repeat those just inhumane treatment of Haitians. 
It is unacceptable.
    Mr. Vargas. Amen. And I would add this too. I live on the 
border here in San Diego. The discrimination that goes on also 
in Mexico when Haitians arrive here also is terrible, the 
discrimination that they face in Mexico when they have every 
right to present themselves at the border and say, I am here 
for asylum, and apply for asylum.
    Anyway, again I--my time is up. But I hope we can do 
something about this, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you. The gentleman's time has expired. Our 
last member to talk is the distinguished Chair of the Financial 
Services Committee, who has been an advocate for Haiti from the 
time that I have known her and that is why she spent the time 
here today. The honorable Maxine Waters, you are now recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I am so 
pleased for the leadership that you are providing on this 
issue. I am a friend of Haiti and I have been for years and I 
have been through some of the better times, but all of the 
worst times. I know Andy Apaid and I know he is down there 
exploiting the people, still.
    I helped to get Guy Philippe put in jail and Toto Constant 
that they are sent back here to the United States, who we 
should have kept here. He was the death squad leader under 
Sadras when that coup d'etat took place. I have been with 
Aristide. I went, rented a plane alone with Randall Robinson. 
Remember when we had TransAfrica, Mr. Chairman, and we went to 
the jet and we went up and we got Aristide and I brought him 
back from the African republic that he was--Central Africa 
Republic that he had been banished to.
    Now knowing all of this, I also understand Haiti, and I 
understand the mulatto's elite and I understand their 
relationship to some of the worst people in government, and 
that is who Moise and all of them work with because they are 
all about the money, exploiting Haiti, and basically about the 
fraud and about the corruption. I get all of that.
    But I want you to know that, you know, people have been 
killed. The last time I was there it was April 2019, and I met 
with the victims of La Saline, the massacre that took place, 
and they told me about everything that happened November 2018. 
And this was all because they were part of Lavalas. And so, you 
know, that is the old party of President Aristide that was so 
prominent in trying to get democracy in Haiti.
    Someone asked today about what was going to be done or what 
had ever been done about the fact that the French basically 
piled all of this debt on Haiti and what was going to be done 
to work in getting that back. Well, that is one of the reasons 
Aristide was ousted was because he was talking about stuff like 
that.
    But I want to tell you that there have been a lot of 
reports of similar massacres such as the one that was held in 
La Saline. I met with people whose houses had been burned down. 
They had no place to go. All they had was the clothing on their 
back. And so whether we are talking about Bel Air or we are 
talking about Cite Soleil, all of them are under absolute, you 
know, violence that has been perpetrated on them by this 
President and his police force.
    In May of last year, the death squad that was headed by 
Jimmy Cherizier, but everybody knows him as Barbeque, he is 
running wild down there. He is killing people. He is carrying 
out multiple attacks on civilians all through the Port-au-
Prince neighborhoods of Tokyo, Delmas, Pont-Rouge, burning 
houses and killing people and doing these violent attacks. 
Members of the Haitian National Police allied with Barbeque 
reportedly stood by and did nothing. No one has been 
accountable for these killings either, so there is a lack of 
accountability.
    Now I know the question has been raised, what can we do? 
Mr. Chairman, I think you are in a great position to help 
provide some leadership. I do not know exactly how it should 
take place, but I think there is some recommendations that may 
make good sense. No. 1, the State Department is very key. I 
realize Haiti is a sovereign nation. We cannot just go in there 
and tell them what to do and what not to do, what have you, but 
we do support Haiti and we do have a State Department there and 
so they have got be involved in some way.
    The other thing is this, France and Canada, I have seen 
them involved when they thought it was in their best interest 
to be involved, but I think if Canada and France, the State 
Department, the U.S. Government led by you, and the civil 
society of Haiti get together and form some kind of a task 
force of some kind, you have got to get President Moise to stop 
this April referendum. This cannot happen.
    This will destroy any efforts to have a Constitution, a 
real--it will undermine the Constitution of Haiti. I mean this 
has got to be stopped. And if everybody can get together and 
maybe some people from the diaspora along with civil society 
and with the State Department, the United Nations, and you, and 
others, maybe we can stop this referendum. It has got to stop.
    Now when you talk about some of the people in civil 
society, Dr. Marie Antoinette Gautier, Marie Louise Gautier, 
these people are all in jail. They picked them up in the middle 
of the night and took them to jail. Louis Buteau and, of 
course, the court, the Supreme Court Justice Dabresil, he was 
arrested also, but they let him go on his recognizance. But the 
rest of them are still in jail and they are talking about they 
are going to stay there for 90 days until they can decide what 
to do with them.
    But in response, and I do not know, but I worked with one 
of the past Prime Ministers, Ceant. Ceant, I guess, was up for 
a while and somehow he got kicked out by Moise. I do not know 
what he is doing. But between those of you who are here today, 
some of the names that I am mentioning and with some of the 
people that you trust in civil society, get together and 
everybody says to Moise, you will not have this referendum, it 
will not take place, I think then there can be a start to deal 
with how to follow the Constitution, how to get a legitimate 
CEP, and how to go forward with elections.
    The Ambassador is correct. The Ambassador is right, you 
cannot have it in this atmosphere. There is no way it can take 
place. And all of the international interest should contribute 
the resources that are necessary at the right time, stopping 
this referendum and making him step aside. You know, he is the 
President, but if all, everybody comes together to say you 
cannot do this, that is not kicking him out as President, but 
the people will do that when you get the elections going and 
you have him step aside and stop the referendum.
    And so I just wanted to add that I love Haiti. I will visit 
Haiti with my friends and I know that this is not political, 
but I am Lavalas. That is it. That is what I have worked with. 
I love President Aristide. He is building a university there 
that is educating doctors and lawyers and it is fabulous. When 
I was there, there was over five or six hundred graduates that 
were coming from that university.
    We can do this, but we have got to come together with all 
of the interest. We have got to stop him in his tracks. We have 
got the international community to come together and supply the 
dollars and move with an election in an atmosphere where people 
will not be killed.
    And with that, I know that I have taken up enough time, I 
would like to submit for the record, a letter that I sent to 
U.S. Ambassador Michele Sison that was signed by 14 of us and 
an op-ed that I wrote in the Miami Herald entitled ``Haiti's 
President Joyenel Moise's shameful assault on democracy.'' And 
I would just like to say that--include CARICOM in that group of 
people who will get together, so that was three letters that I 
had sent.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to follow your lead. I 
am going to do what I know you can--I support you in what I 
know you can do, and I think you have to take the leadership in 
having to bring this group of people together. As I said, civil 
society will be central to that. But all of these others who 
play a role, I think we can force him to step aside while we 
get together to plan an election.
    Thank you so much. I yield back the balance of my time.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has expired. 
All questions have now been had and all questions are now 
concluded. I now call upon Ranking Member McCaul, if you have 
any comments before we close.
    In closing, let me do this. I do not think Ranking Member 
McCaul is with us. I want to thank all of our witnesses today. 
No. 1, your insight has been invaluable. I want to thank all of 
the Members of this committee who have been engaged on this 
critical situation in Haiti. There is clearly a lot of work to 
be done and we are going to need to stay focused on Haiti, and 
I want all that have been witnessing and listening to this 
hearing today to note that this committee is going to stay 
focused.
    This is not just a one hearing and off and then we are not 
going to continue to pay attention to what is going on. I too, 
as I said in my opening statement, am very concerned about 
moving forward with a referendum and what the current make up 
of is the CEP, of the CEP, because we have to have free and 
fair elections that involves everyone. Civil society must be a 
part of this.
    The Haitian people must have confidence in an election. You 
cannot have an election just for election's sake because we 
would still be in the same place. There has got to be 
integrity. So this committee will work with the State 
Department and the administration bringing folks together so 
that we will know that there will be a change of what is going 
on.
    So the Haitian people face a big deal and it is a priority 
of mine that we work to elevate the voices of civil society who 
want democracy and the rule of law. And I thank each and every 
one of you for being with us today and I now adjourn this 
hearing.
    [Whereupon, at 1:11 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
    
 [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]   

      
                   STATEMENT SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
                   
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                   


             ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
             
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]            


                              miami herald
                              
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                              

                         Letters for the Record
                         
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                        


            Responses to Questions Submitted for the Record
            
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]