[Senate Hearing 116-151]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 116-151
LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON A BILL TO CREATE
A U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE CHRONIC
WASTING DISEASE TASK FORCE
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
DECEMBER 4, 2019
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
63-686 WASHINGTON : 2026
=======================================================================
COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming, Chairman
JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware,
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia Ranking Member
KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland
MIKE BRAUN, Indiana BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon
JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, New York
ROGER WICKER, Mississippi CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
JONI ERNST, Iowa TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland
Richard M. Russell, Majority Staff Director
Mary Frances Repko, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
DECEMBER 4, 2019
OPENING STATEMENTS
Barrasso, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of Wyoming...... 1
Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware.. 2
WITNESSES
Nesvik, Brian, Director, Wyoming Game and Fish Department........ 5
Prepared statement........................................... 8
Responses to additional questions from Senator Barrasso...... 33
Leonhardt, Kent, Commissioner, West Virginia Department of
Agriculture.................................................... 35
Prepared statement........................................... 37
Responses to additional questions from Senator Barrasso...... 70
Fosburgh, Whit, President and Chief Executive Officer, Theodore
Roosevelt Conservation Partnership............................. 72
Prepared statement........................................... 74
ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
Letter to Senator Barrasso and Senator Carper from:
The Public Lands Council and two other organizations......... 94
Western Governors Association................................ 95
Letter to Majority Leader McConnell, Minority Leader Schumer,
Speaker Pelosi, and Minority Leader McCarthy from Western
Governors Association.......................................... 96
LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON A BILL TO CREATE A U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE
SERVICE CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE TASK FORCE
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WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 4, 2019
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Environment and Public Works,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m. in
room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John Barrasso
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
Present: Senators Barrasso, Carper, Inhofe, Capito, Braun,
Boozman, Ernst, Cardin, Gillibrand.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Good morning. I call this hearing to
order.
Today, this committee will examine draft legislation to
address a growing wildlife health crisis. In October, this
committee held a hearing to examine how disease impacts
wildlife conservation as well as management. From that hearing,
it became clear that one of the largest threats to the health
of deer, elk, moose, and reindeer is chronic wasting disease.
Chronic wasting disease is a terrible, degenerative brain
disease. It is highly contagious in animals. Symptoms develop
slowly over time, but the disease is always fatal. Scientists
and wildlife managers first detected the disease nearly 40
years ago. Since then, it has spread to at least 26 States and
4 Canadian provinces.
Since its discovery, scientists, State wildlife managers,
and Federal agencies have worked to understand how the disease
spreads. From their work, we now understand that the disease is
spread by prions. Now, a prion is not a bacteria; it is not a
virus, there are no treatments available, antibiotics are not
effective. There is no effective vaccine.
I learned about prion disease in medical school. Prions are
effectively misfolded proteins. When these proteins are
abnormal, they cause similar diseases in sheep and in humans.
How those prions spread and infect other animals still
remains a mystery. Research has not yet determined whether the
disease is transmitted through nose-to-nose contact, or through
animal waste, through carcasses of infected animals, or some
other way. Some studies have even suggested prions can remain
in the soil for up to 16 years.
There is a lot we do not know yet about this disease,
including its risks to humans. That is why today we will
discuss a draft bill to create a Chronic Wasting Disease Task
Force at the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. This task force
represents an opportunity to bring States, relevant Federal
agencies, scientists, managers, and farmers to one table.
Together, they can coordinate prevention and control efforts,
and target future research to address unanswered questions.
States manage deer, elk, moose, and reindeer populations
that are at risk. States like Wyoming and West Virginia manage
wild herds and collect data from game farms. They have invested
countless hours and dollars to develop strategies that may not
always be consistent across State lines.
When he testified before this committee in October, Dr.
Walter Cook, who is the wildlife population health veterinarian
at Texas A&M, emphasized the need to coordinate research, to
work on containment efforts, and on public education. He
stated, ``It would be ideal if a group of respected chronic
wasting disease authorities could determine common management
needs and overall public message.''
To that end, this draft bill would combine expertise about
wildlife from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, data on
farmland animals from the U.S. Department of Agriculture's
Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, and on-the-ground
experience from the affected States.
This is a fight that must be fought on multiple fronts; in
the wild, where the deer, the elk, and the moose roam vast
spaces and on the farms that breed and raise these animals.
Unchecked, this disease could truly be catastrophic for
wildlife and local economies.
Across this Country, whole industries are built around
wildlife, hunting, tourism, wildlife watching, and deer and elk
farming. The Muley Fanatic Foundation in Wyoming told me that
``There is no bigger threat to our big game populations than
the spread of chronic wasting disease.''
I believe this task force, and the pooled resources that it
leverages, can be a turning point in the national fight against
chronic wasting disease. We need a roadmap for the future, and
sharing information is the place to start.
I would now like to ask Ranking Member Carper for his
opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE
Senator Carper. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Who is from Wyoming?
Senator Barrasso. The guy in the back, right there, is from
Wyoming, with the mustache. The guy that looks like a rugged
rancher, the individualist, a resilient guy. Looks like the
Marlboro Man.
Senator Carper. I see him, I see him. There you go.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. Whether you are from Wyoming, or some other
State, we welcome you warmly. Thank you for being here.
Mr. Chairman, colleagues, and to our witnesses and
audience, although chronic wasting disease is an unfamiliar
topic to most of us in the First State, that is Delaware, our
neighbors in Maryland and nearby Pennsylvania are dealing with
it firsthand. I just spoke with Senator Cardin before he went
off to be in a Foreign Relations Committee hearing, and he is
going to try to get back. He said that they deal with it in
Maryland, Western Maryland, up in that part of the State.
In the spirit of the golden rule, Delaware, my State, has
an interest and an obligation to help prevent the spread of
this deadly disease which adversely affects deer populations in
many of our sister States. Deer are an important part of our
ecosystem and link in the food chain. They are also an
attraction for wildlife watching and hunting, two recreational
activities enjoyed by our State's residents and visitors alike.
In fact, I am told that seven out of every ten hunters in
Delaware hunt deer.
Spending associated with hunting and wildlife watching
provides a major boost to our State's economy. The money spent
on equipment, on watching, and on transportation and so forth
supports jobs and local businesses as well as many of our
State's conservation efforts.
Additionally, the sale of all hunting licenses, tags, and
stamps, when combined with funds generated from taxes on
hunting equipment, comprise approximately 60 percent of
Delaware's annual budget for wildlife programs, 60 percent.
Furthermore, hunting in Delaware is Delaware's primary tool for
deer management, as it is in many other States.
If chronic wasting disease spreads into Delaware, and it
could, it would deter these hunters. In addition to the impact
that it would have on our wildlife management revenues, it
would force our State to revert resources to alternative deer
management tools. While we may not have any context for
managing the impact of chronic wasting disease in my State, we
can certainly understand the major threat that it poses to
States' environments, to the recreational opportunities, and
their economies.
With the disease now detected in some 26 States nationwide,
it is more important than ever that we work together to stop
its spread and support the States, the tribes, and Federal
agencies grappling with its impacts. The legislation we are
considering today encourages Federal agencies and States to
better coordinate their monitoring, their research, and
management efforts.
With several Federal agencies implicated in addressing the
disease, creating a Federal Chronic Wasting Disease Task Force
could be one step in the right direction. In addition, as I
think we will hear from our witnesses today, we know the task
force is only part of the solution to the problem. The
magnitude and severity of this disease demands a proportionate
Federal response, which should include meaningful funding.
Over the past two Congresses, we have held multiple
hearings on the conservation challenges facing our States,
including management of wildlife diseases, human-wildlife
conflicts, and species conservation. Time and again, the
message from the States has been one that is clear. The best
way the Federal Government can help States address conservation
and management challenges is to ensure, to help to ensure, that
they have adequate resources to do their job.
It is not all on us. It is not all on the Federal
Government. It is a shared responsibility. States need to do
their part. We have a responsibility as well.
As many of my colleagues have heard me say in this room,
things worth having are worth paying for. I believe our
Nation's precious wildlife resources are worth having, and I
think most Americans would agree. That means we should work
together to address both State and Federal funding needs while
thinking creatively about how to pay for these investments.
Addressing chronic wasting disease is a high priority. Our
committee is also pending before us numerous bipartisan
wildlife conservation bills that will help protect species that
I hope we will seriously consider as well. Each of our
witnesses today brings expertise on many of these matters, and
we look forward to hearing from you and to the conversation
that will follow about how to comprehensively address chronic
wasting disease and meet other conservation needs.
Again, thanks Mr. Chairman, for pulling this together.
Thank you all for coming, sharing your thoughts with us, and
responding to our questions. Welcome.
Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Senator Carper.
Before we hear from our witnesses, I want to first
introduce Brian Nesvik, who is the director of the Wyoming Game
and Fish Department. He is no stranger to this committee. You
have previously shared your wildlife expertise with this
committee. You have been intimately involved in Wyoming's
chronic wasting disease program for many years and a longtime
game warden in Wyoming.
I also had the pleasure of sharing Thanksgiving with him
and several visits with him overseas, I think starting in 2009,
when you were deployed to Kuwait and with incursions into Iraq,
commander of the 2d 300 field artillery unit with a mission of
running convoy operations into Iraq, 2-300th. My father-in-law,
Bob Brown, was a member of that group in the Korean War, and
there is a long history.
I just had a chance to be with the 2-300th in Afghanistan
last Thursday, as they are there continuing to keep us safe and
free, but I appreciate your role commanding that group in the
past.
Director Nesvik, I will thank you for your service to the
Country, for all you do for Wyoming. Before we get to your
testimony, I was going to ask Senator Capito if you would like
to please introduce a visitor and a person who is going to
testify today from West Virginia.
Senator Capito. I would, and thank you Mr. Chairman.
It is my pleasure to introduce my friend, our agriculture
commissioner, Mr. Kent Leonhardt. He was elected in 2016 as our
commissioner, and before that, he was in the West Virginia
State Senate, representing my hometown of Glen Dale, West
Virginia.
Throughout his tenure, Commissioner Leonhardt has really
been an advocate for West Virginia farmers and the mission of
the department. They have endeavored to break down silos to
improve government efficiency, as we all know, that is not the
easiest thing, and are working to update regulations to move
our West Virginia agriculture industry forward. I thank him for
that.
In addition to being a farmer himself, he is also a
veteran. He served 20 years in the United States Marine Corps
before retiring with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel.
I thought it would be interesting to point out to the
committee that together, Commissioner Leonhardt and I have
worked on a project of agri-therapy, a pilot program with the
Woody Williams VA Medical Center in Huntington, West Virginia.
This program will hopefully serve as a model to meet the mental
and behavioral health care needs of our veterans, as well as
provide them with new career opportunities in agriculture.
I want to thank Commissioner Leonhardt for his commitment
to breaking down barriers, but also how we can better prevent
the spread of chronic wasting disease within the wild and
agricultural deer population. I am proud to say that West
Virginia is ahead of the curve in this regard, thanks to the
commissioner's efforts. While we still have much work to do, I
am sure that with his experience, we will be able to move the
ball forward.
I thank him for coming today, and I look forward to the
panel. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you. Senator Carper.
Senator Carper. I just want to say to our Marine friends,
and Army? Yes, Navy. Welcome. We have a football game coming
up.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. I like to say to my friends who wear
different uniforms, I say, different uniforms, same team,
except when we play football. I spent a lot of years in the
Navy, and we are just honored and grateful for your service. I
am not sure if you have military experience as well. You are
still young enough, you could survive.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. We will work you into the lineup. Thank
you, and as a native of West Virginia, Beckley County, great to
see you. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Carper. Our third
witness today is Whit Fosburgh, who is the President and Chief
Executive Officer of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation
Partnership. We welcome you as well.
We are going to start the testimony with Brian Nesvik.
Brian, please proceed.
STATEMENT OF BRIAN NESVIK, DIRECTOR,
WYOMING GAME AND FISH DEPARTMENT
Mr. Nesvik. Good morning, Chairman Barrasso and Ranking
Member Carper and members of the committee. I appreciate the
opportunity to appear before you to discuss a wildlife
management challenge that, as the chairman outlined, is
certainly important to my State.
While I speak to you today from a Wyoming wildlife manager
perspective, this disease is a national problem. CWD continues
to spread across our Country, and its impacts continue to
increase, commensurate with changes in its distribution and
prevalence in wild ungulates. This disease has been documented
in 26 U.S. States and 3 Canadian Provinces. I direct your
attention over to this map that is a good visual depiction of
where the disease has been documented in the United States and
Canada.
Aside from wildlife health problems and potential
implications to how wildlife are managed, this disease has
economic effects and indirectly impacts the work State agencies
are able to conduct on other high conservation priorities. The
Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, or AFWA, estimates
the States will spend $84 million on testing and surveillance
alone over the next 5 years.
Infrastructure at the Federal level that facilitates
cross----
State and inter-agency coordination, planning and
synchronization, is needed in this discussion draft bill, which
would create a United States Fish and Wildlife CWD task force
provides it.
This is a national problem that requires the collective
thought, wisdom, and experience of members of the government,
academia, non-governmental organizations, and elected leaders.
Failing to find solutions to CWD could have significant
implications to the manner in which wildlife is managed in our
Country. Your consideration of this discussion draft is
important, and I applaud your commitment to consider its
provisions.
As you have read in my comprehensive written testimony, new
research has changed the way wildlife managers evaluate the
threat posed by CWD to deer, elk, and moose populations. Prior
to research from the past five to 10 years, most wildlife
managers and members of the public recognized the disease, but
took the view that impacts to wild herds were minimal at the
population scale. We now know that with high prevalence levels,
the disease can limit and even reduce the health and viability
of certain wildlife populations. Our citizens expect us to do
our level best to find some solutions.
In Wyoming, we have recently redoubled our efforts to
explore new options and change the way we think about attacking
this problem. Our Game and Fish Commission has a long history
of dealing with the disease ever since its discovery 4 years
ago. Recently, our commission tasked the department with
looking at all options to find solutions to slow its spread and
to seek answers to tough questions requiring extensive
research. Based on their leadership and resourcing, our
department engaged in its own vaccine research in the recent
past.
Our department has worked at the regional and national
level with other experts to share ideas and identify potential
management options. Our department recently convened a
statewide citizen working group made up of 31 members of the
public charged with studying the disease and making
recommendations for future management.
Additionally, we established a committee comprised of
senior leaders from across 20 Wyoming State agencies to
specifically look for solutions to deal with carcass disposal,
which is another problem that is created by CWD. Wyoming
Legislature's Travel, Recreation, and Wildlife committee took
this issue up for interim study, and like you, has received
testimony regarding the disease, resources required to deal
with it, and future plans to enhance our efforts.
We have found that addressing this problem using diverse
teams comprised of members with varied skill sets is the most
productive. My judgment is that this is no different at the
national level, and the complexity and breadth of this problem
requires formalizing this type of approach, as is outlined in
this discussion draft before you today.
Important outcomes of a national CWD task force could
include improved information sharing on the best practices and
pooling of resources to find the most important, but very
expensive CWD research. Additionally, bringing together the
most brilliant and well-versed scientific minds gives our
Nation the best chance to find effective and meaningful
solutions.
Cross-State coordination relative to carcass movement and
disposal is also important, requiring planning and deliberate
action at the regional and national level, and would
undoubtedly be a focus of a CWD task force.
As you have seen in my written testimony, there have been
national efforts initiated in the past and Federal assets
allocated to this problem. In the absence of information
indicating direct effects on wildlife at the population level
and a lack of scientific links to human health, funding support
waned in 2012. Federal funds were redirected to other high-
priority needs, and consequently, work on this disease at the
national and State level declined.
Unfortunately, funding for CWD research diminished before
potential strategies for controlling and managing the disease
could be tested and evaluated. Taking a new look into the
allocation of Federal resources in the face of new information
is wise, and this discussion draft establishes the framework
for this new look.
Again, I thank you for your leadership on this issue, and I
look forward to answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Nesvik follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much for your testimony. Mr.
Leonhardt.
STATEMENT OF KENT LEONHARDT, COMMISSIONER,
WEST VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
Mr. Leonhardt. Thank you Chairman Barrasso, Ranking Member
Carper. Thank you, Senator Capito, for the kind introduction,
and members of the committee, the opportunity to talk about
chronic wasting disease with you today.
As the Commissioner of Agriculture of the State of West
Virginia, I believe the establishment of a CWD task force is a
measure that is long overdue. I am one of 12 statewide elected
commissioners of agriculture; and as such, I report directly to
the citizens of my State. There is a lot of concern surrounding
CWD, especially from our many sportsmen, as well as our captive
cervid farmers.
I am elected, I have the unique opportunity to help shape
legislation and policy surrounding issues like CWD. What my
staff and I have found is that many of our colleagues from
other States operate under laws and regulations much different
than our own.
I would also like to point out to the members of this
committee that every State department of agriculture has
different responsibilities. In West Virginia, deer farms are
regulated by my department. Deer farms in West Virginia raise
white-tailed deer, elk, plus exotic reindeer and fallow deer.
Wild white-tailed deer and elk populations are regulated by the
West Virginia Department of Natural Resources under the
Commerce Department and the Governor. While the Department of
Agriculture and DNR work closely together on many projects, we
sometimes disagree on legislation and rules because the
uncertainty of CWD data does not help that at all.
There are various groups and agencies performing some form
of research to better understand this slow spreading, yet
potentially devastating disease. In February 2019, I asked
USDA's Animal, Plant, and Health Inspection Service to
undertake more research concerning CWD. There was pressure
being placed on legislators to make and enforce laws that were
not based on science, but a feeling that something must be
done.
My position has always been that we must legislate from the
application of sound science. Farmers are already subject to
uncertain weather and uncertain market conditions. Successful
farm businesses must have certainty in regulations. This
includes the production and interstate transportation of
agricultural products, which does include deer, venison, deer
embryos, and deer urine, et cetera.
APHIS responded with an initial literature review, which I
have attached to this testimony. It is clear from the current
State of research we do not have certainty in the science of
CWD and the ability to make sound judgments that may affect the
livelihood of many farmers and hunting related businesses.
I am encouraged that research is ongoing, but more is
needed, and it does need to be better coordinated to maximize
limited research dollars.
Deer farming in West Virginia is a growing industry. Deer
farming has been growing nationally, with the sale of deer
urine alone reaching $16 million in 2016. For West Virginia,
deer farming is an opportunity to diversify our economy and
potentially use land that is no longer viable under modern
agricultural practices, or even restore value to our abandoned
mine lands.
Although found in limited areas in West Virginia, to date
in West Virginia we have never had a farm deer test positive
for CWD. We test all animals going to slaughter for meat and 10
percent of the animals harvested in hunting operations.
West Virginia has long supported the cooperative CWD
Voluntary Herd Certification Program between West Virginia deer
farms, State animal health and wildlife officials, and APHIS-
Veterinary Services. Currently, 30 of the 36 West Virginia deer
farms participate with 28 certified with the program standards.
Two newer farms do not have 5 years of negative results at this
time. Six licensed hunting preserves do not participate, as
they do not relocate deer.
It is important to point out that any additional studies on
the prion-related diseases will add value to prion disease
research for known human diseases and other domesticated
livestock. Deer farms should be part of this research,
especially if we are a Nation that wants to develop
immunotherapies for domesticated herd protection and eventual
suppression and eradication of diseases in the wild.
Therefore, my opinion is that the spread of CWD is mostly
carried by scavengers. You will see that in some of the studies
I provided. An infected deer that dies from any cause, left
unattended, will soon be consumed by scavengers, most commonly,
a winged variety. The viable prion living in the lymphatic
system or nervous tissue is then consumed, and the prion passes
through the digestive track and eventually deposited miles
away. This could explain why the disease has appeared in very
tightly closed and monitored herds or in areas not adjacent to
known infected areas.
Therefore, I believe a close study of infected carcasses
and scavengers would yield tremendous insight. We know the
prion survives on vegetation outside an animal for a long time.
It may be a while before we are confident with a live test for
the disease. We may be taking baby steps and slowing the
spread, but it must be based on sound science.
I looked at the proposed legislation, and I have three
recommendations. At least, if we could, at least have one of
the non-governmental positions on the task force be an
experienced and respected deer farmer; that the bill clarifies
the funding and need for coordination and education information
campaign between State agencies, agriculture groups, and the
hunting public; and that any legislation resulting from this
task force be specific and not left up to interpretation.
Thank you very much for this opportunity. I look forward to
your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Leonhardt follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much for your thoughtful
testimony. Mr. Fosburgh.
STATEMENT OF WHIT FOSBURGH, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE
OFFICE, THEODORE ROOSEVELT CONSERVATION PARTNERSHIP
Mr. Fosburgh. Thank you, Chairman Barrasso, Ranking Member
Carper, and the rest of the committee to have the ability to
testify today on chronic wasting disease.
Simply put, CWD is the greatest threat to hunting and
conservation in America today. To reiterate some key facts, CWD
is 100 percent fatal, and impacts all species of North
America's wild deer: white tails, mule deer, elk, moose. There
is no vaccine; there is no cure.
CWD has spread from Colorado, where is was found in a
captive deer facility in 1967, to 26 States today. It can
spread slowly in the wild. It spreads quickly when live or dead
animals are moved by people. CWD infects an area; once it
happens, it is almost impossible to eradicate. While CWD has
never been documented from jumping from deer to humans, the CDC
recommends against eating any CWD-positive meat.
The prions that cause CWD can be taken up in plant matter,
including alfalfa and corn. Norway, which is trying to battle
an outbreak of CWD in a reindeer population now bans
importation of any agricultural products from CWD-positive
areas.
You can not cook your way out of CWD. The prions remain
viable to 1700 degrees Fahrenheit. Smart and aggressive
management can greatly slow the spread of CWD and keep it at
background levels.
Apart from some limited research funding, the Federal
Government has not been involved in the CWD fight for wild deer
in a significant way. It is time for that to change.
With the addition of the legislation before the committee
today, there are now at least five bills in the Senate dealing
directly with CWD. All are a step in the right direction, but
none, frankly, are aggressive or visionary enough to truly
address the problem.
It is important to note that the single most important
thing Congress can do to stop the spread of CWD is to give the
States the resources they need to track and fight the disease
in the wild. Congress provided strong and consistent funding to
the State wildlife agencies through 2011, but that funding
ended, and the States were forced to take those funds from
other sources to deal with the disease. Some States simply
stopped looking for it.
The 2020 House Agricultural Appropriations Bill
reestablishes Federal funding for CWD by providing $15 million
to State wildlife agencies for CWD surveillance and testing.
That bill is currently in conference with the Senate, which
provides a measly $2.5 million for wild deer in its bill.
If the members of the committee care about stopping CWD, I
would urge you to reach out to your colleagues on the
Appropriations Committee and ask them to support the House
level of $15 million in the Agricultural Appropriations Bill.
Coordinating and expediting the Federal response to CWD is
also important, and the task force proposed by this committee
could help do this. Today, the Department of Agriculture has
primary jurisdiction over CWD. Part of the reason we are in the
situation we are today is the department's abject failure to
control the disease in captive deer populations.
APHIS, the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Services Herd
Certification Program has proven utterly ineffective, allowing
CWD-positive deer to move across State lines and CWD-positive
deer to persist on the landscape. The Department of the
Interior, charged with maintaining viable populations of wild
animals on public lands, has been far more aggressive in
raising the alarm about CWD, largely thanks to Secretary David
Bernhardt's leadership, but Interior needs a partner at USDA
and a strong relationship with the CDC.
Deer hunting in America is a $40 billion a year industry,
and 80 percent of America's 11.5 million hunters consider
themselves deer hunters. While the overall hunting numbers have
been declining, there has been growth in the ``field to table''
food movement, where new hunters are attracted to the idea of
locally sourced, organic protein they can harvest themselves.
Collectively, hunters pay the freight for the vast majority
of the on-the-ground wildlife conservation work in this
Country. Through the purchase of licenses, conservation stamps,
firearms and ammunition, hunters contribute billions of dollars
to wildlife habitat conservation every year, work that directly
benefits non-hunters as well.
As questions persist about who to believe and what to
believe about CWD, many hunters may find it easier and simpler
just to stop hunting, which could have dire consequences to
conservation funding in this Country.
CWD is a symptom of systematic failure to invest in
conservation. That is why it matters, because hunters and
anglers ask this committee to help address the CWD crisis, as
well as move legislation that reauthorizes the North American
Wildlife Conservation Act and authorizes the Pittman Robertson
Modernization Act and the National Fish Habitat Conservation
Act. These bipartisan, non-controversial bills are waiting for
passage through this committee and then on to the Senate floor,
Together, they comprise a considerable segment of the
sportsmen's legislative agenda for Congress.
As noted before, CWD has forced many State agencies to
divert funds from wetlands or fish habitat conservation to help
meet the challenge posed by the disease, so it is altogether
relevant and appropriate to move all these packages together.
Again, thank you, Chairman Barrasso, Ranking Member Carper,
for elevating the profile of CWD crisis in the Senate. I would
ask you to be aggressive in dealing with the response.
I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Fosburgh follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, all of you. We will start with
rounds of questions of 5 minutes each.
Let me start with a question for both Brian Nesvik, as well
as Kent Leonhardt. A couple of things.
In October, we had Steve Guertin here, Deputy Director of
policy and Fish and Wildlife. He testified on wildlife health
issues before the committee. He emphasized the need for ``high
level coordination and collaboration between Federal agencies,
State agencies, among others, to address this growing threat.''
To both of you, do you agree that better cross-
jurisdictional collaboration is required, and if so, how can a
task force really enable that kind of collaboration?
Mr. Nesvik. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First, the short
answer to your question is yes. I will elaborate a little bit.
First of all, I will tell you that there are many entities
out there that are passionate and focused and understand the
magnitude of this problem. You have the Association of Fish and
Wildlife Agencies, basically comprised of State wildlife
management agencies from across the Country.
As was mentioned by one of the witnesses here today, we
have, the Federal agencies have taken an interest and have
enacted several regulations as well as some other programs to
address CWD. There is a science consortium that just occurred
in September with 46 leading experts on this. That is a
separate entity.
Then you have non-governmental organizations that are also
very interested in it, as we have heard from one of our
witnesses here today.
I think what this type of infrastructure, this type of task
force that is contemplated in this discussion draft would do,
is provide a venue for all of those entities to come together,
provide, I will use a military term, a unity of effort that
would gain some efficiencies in the way that our Country
attacks this problem.
I would also say that I think that there is a scientific
side of this, as well as a policy side of this. Bringing those
type of both the scientific experts as well as elected leaders
and other folks that represent elected leaders together, you
have an opportunity to address both the science and the policy.
I think, also, it provides an emphasis on not just
research, but applied research, research you can actually take
out on the ground and use to manage the problem. That would be
my thoughts.
Senator Barrasso. Mr. Leonhardt, anything you want to add
to that?
Mr. Leonhardt. Obviously, Senator, I do agree with this
legislation and I do not have much more to add. We also have to
remember, normally, I am a small State guy, States' rights,
things of that nature, but when you have a disease that is
spreading, obviously, to other States, it is time for the
Federal Government to step in and take a little bit of a lead
on that and coordinate those efforts.
We also need a central clearing ground, as I mentioned
earlier, for information. Sometimes, information gets out
there, and if we do not have a place to go to and actually get
the facts, a lot of States will act on emotion, and we could
actually hurt our sporting and our agricultural activities if
we are going off of emotion and not going off of actual sound
science.
I support this legislation and I hope we can move forward
with this.
Senator Barrasso. Brian, you mentioned in your written
testimony that additional research is needed to inform future
decisions. As the research needs evolve over time, how do we
best target the research to address the highest priorities?
Mr. Nesvik. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Excellent question. I
would say first that our Wildlife Health Committee of the
Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies to spend some time
and put a little bit of brain sweat into this, thinking about
what those priorities might be. They have identified four
priorities, and I would start there.
First of all, with prion detection and diagnostics.
Basically, to summarize that, it is developing new ways to live
test animals, which is really important with this particular
disease, to be able to know if they are carrying the disease
while they are still on the hoof.
Second, disease biology and pathogenesis is another
priority that has been identified. Really, the short story
there is looking at transmission. We still, as you pointed out,
Mr. Chairman, do not know how this disease is spread. We know
some, we know a little bit about that, but we do not know
everything we need to know right now.
I think management and ecology of the disease would be a
third priority, specifically as it relates to the host or the
carrier. We need to know what the role of soil and plants is in
how this disease is carried and transmitted.
I also think that the human dimensions aspect of this is
really important. Folks, when we are talking about management
actions like we are with CWD, some of those are pretty hard
decisions, and it means that people have to be willing to allow
non-traditional management applications that are sometimes not
very popular. There is a human element of this to be able to
make sure folks understand.
The second part I would say there, Mr. Chairman, is that
this research consortium that I talked about that met in
September, they too have also identified very specifically and
in the weeds some ideas for research priorities. They have got
pretty specific. I think relying on the priorities from AFWA as
well as the ideas that were developed by this research
consortium would be a great place for this task force to start,
if it were to be formed.
Senator Barrasso. Senator Carper.
Senator Carper. Thank you all. Really exceptional
testimony, very, very good. I am impressed.
I think I will start with a question, first, for Mr.
Fosburgh, and then I will have some questions for everybody. We
appreciate each of you for your leadership and your testimony.
I want to ask you, Mr. Fosburgh, if you would, just to
elaborate on why chronic wasting disease is an issue that
everyone should care about, including the 24 States that are
not affected directly by it.
How might the disease impact broader species and habitat
conservation efforts across the Nation, including those other
24 States?
Mr. Fosburgh. Great question, Senator. As I mentioned, deer
hunting is a $40 billion a year industry and generates about
$5.5 billion in taxes, many of which go back to the States for
fish and wildlife conservation. As Brian knows very well, even
though that money is paid for by hunters, a lot of the work
they do is on non-game species. There is no dedicated funding
source right now for non-game species.
The hunters dollars we use to protect butterflies and
reptiles and amphibians and other things like that, as
necessary. We get that, and we understand that, and we support
that. We also want more money for it.
If the number of hunters goes down, and the decline is
pretty precipitous right now, it is only going to get worse in
the face of CWD if people think they can not eat the meat, then
that is a huge crisis in terms of funding those States to do
everything, not just manage white-tailed deer populations. I
think that is really the threat we see moving forward.
Senator Carper. All right, good. Thank you.
Maybe a question for Mr. Nesvik. What kind of name is that?
Where are you from? Where is your family from?
Mr. Nesvik. It is Norwegian.
Senator Carper. Good. As spending on chronic wasting
disease has increased in Wyoming, how has that impacted your
agency's ability to manage other wildlife species? The second
half to that question would be, what impact has chronic wasting
disease had on your State's budget in Wyoming, on budget and
staff resources?
Mr. Nesvik. Excellent question. Thank you, Ranking Member
Carper and Mr. Chairman. I would say that first, there is many
second and third order effects of this particular disease.
Actually, in Western Wyoming, this disease goes head-on with
another disease, namely brucellosis, where we have a situation
where we feed elk on feed grounds. One of them is the National
Elk Refuge, established over a hundred years ago.
The purpose of those feed grounds is to separate cattle and
elk during the winter when brucellosis can be transmitted. Our
elk carry brucellosis, and that is a significant issue if you
are a livestock producer.
We also know that concentrating animals in the winter can,
at least if once CWD arrives, can increase the spread or can
more rapidly allow the spread of the disease. Elk naturally get
in large groups in the wintertime anyway, but concentrating
them on the same piece of ground over a long period of time can
enhance that.
It has other wildlife management effects. The actual
budgetary effects are pretty hard to quantify because of that.
We do spend a significant amount of our own money to monitor
the disease. We conduct, we do testing now on, I think last
year, we had about 7,000 deer and elk and moose that we tested,
and that costs money. We hire folks to go out and actually
collect those samples throughout the year.
There are definitely budgetary impacts and those dollars,
they are sportsmen dollars that are spent on monitoring this
disease and trying to develop research for the disease, do take
away from other conservation priorities. We have many of them
in Wyoming because we have a tremendous wildlife resource.
Senator Carper. Thanks.
Back to you, Mr. Fosburgh, if I could, for my third
question. Would you elaborate on, I think you mentioned two
pieces of legislation, North American Wildlife Conservation Act
as well as National Fish Habitat Conservation Act. We would
appreciate if you would just elaborate a bit on the importance
of these two pieces of legislation that you have touched on. In
addition to these reauthorizations, do you believe the
government should be investing more than it currently does in
conservation and habitat restoration?
Mr. Fosburgh. Thank you, Senator. The North American
Wildlife Conservation Act has a long history of basically
investing in wetland restoration and protection around the
Country. It is been a critical for the resurgence in waterfowl
populations since the lows back in the 1930's.
The National Fish Habitat Conservation Act is something
very similar that would be on the fish side. It is in existence
now, but it is not been ever authorized by Congress,
essentially voluntary. What it really represents is that
commitment of resources to wetlands, to waterfowl, to fish, to
streams, to watershed health that is really in everybody's
interest. We think those are a critical part of the
conservation funding equation that Congress needs to think
about when it thinks about CWD.
I also mentioned in my testimony the Pittman Robertson
Modernization Act, which would allow the State agencies to use
some of those excise dollars to really get the word out to
sportsmen about hunting, about CWD, about proper care. They can
not do that right now the way the legislation is written. They
can do it on the fish side, the Take Me Fishing campaign you
have heard of, that was what was done on the fish side. That is
been incredibly impactful in terms of turning around the trend
of declining fishing participation.
I think all this, we see it together as components of the
conservation funding equation that are critically important for
sportsmen and the Nation.
Senator Carper. Good. Take Me Fishing, I like that.
Mr. Fosburgh. Anytime.
Senator Carper. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso. Senator Inhofe.
Senator Inhofe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am sure it is
evident to the three of you by this time that you three are
experts and there are no experts on this panel.
[Laughter.]
Senator Inhofe. The questions we would ask and be curious,
the notions that we have probably seem pretty basic to you. We
are in a learning situation.
I did not know until we were preparing for this hearing
that we are doing a good job in Oklahoma. It is my
understanding, for the benefit of my colleagues, we are talking
about two different areas of animals, whether we are talking
about deer or elk. Those who would be in captivity, and then
others in the wild.
If you look, I have a map here that came out of the CDC
talking about the prevalence of this. I look at my State of
Oklahoma, and I am not saying this in a braggadocio, I did not
even know it until yesterday, that we are doing a great job. If
you look at our surrounding States, this is only in the wild,
now, these figures. You have in Colorado 27 counties that have
had this incident. My neighboring State of Arkansas, 12 cases,
my neighboring State of Kansas, 35 cases; in Oklahoma, zero. We
have not had any.
We have had two cases in the last 21 years that are in
captivity. What could be the difference here, when we are
talking about the same geographic areas, about the same numbers
of deer populations there, that we do not have any, and the
only one we do have are the two that were in 1998 and then this
year? We are going to start with your side. Maybe we are doing
something right that no one else knows about.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Nesvik. Well, that is a great question, Senator. The
first thing that I would question, if I was going to try to
figure out and get to the bottom of what your question is, is
the amount of surveillance and the amount of testing that is
going on. Certainly, we have been testing at a very high level
for a long time in Wyoming, so we have detected, we have been
able to follow the spread of the disease as it is moved across
our State.
Our neighbor to the north has had CWD on both sides.
Montana has had it to the north, in Canada, and also to the
south, in Wyoming. It is been only very recently in the last
several years where they have actually detected it in wild
herds, but they were far, far, far behind Wyoming.
The way that this disease moves and the way that it spread
is one of those research challenges, and one of the reasons I
think that we need to learn more about this disease, so we can
explain things like what you just explained in your question.
Senator Inhofe. Anyone else have a thought on that?
Mr. Fosburgh. I think probably that Oklahoma may be doing
things great, but I would just suggest that it probably has to
do with surveillance and testing, because when the moneys were
dried up, a lot of the States stopped looking as hard,
particularly if they did not think they had it.
I think that even if they do not have it now, if you are
surrounded by it, you are going to get it. You had better put
some systems in place that either prevent in from coming in or
deal with it once it arrives in your State.
Senator Inhofe. Mr. Leonhardt, you mentioned in your verbal
testimony that you want to be sure that we should be specific
and not left up to interpretation. What did you have in mind
when you talked about that?
Mr. Leonhardt. There is a lot of discussion out there on
how the disease is transmitted, whether it is nose to nose,
whether the captive farms have to have a double fencing,
whether it is transmitted. They have tried to outlaw the deer
urine side of things.
To me, if we had a live test, obviously, we would know
whether the animal is infected or not, but if you could find
chronic wasting disease in the urine, then we would already
have a live test. There is legislation in my own State, they
have tried to take the collection of urine, which is a business
for some of our deer farms, tried to eliminate that source of
revenue stream for the deer farm because people believe that is
found in the urine, even though it is not necessarily. If it
was found in the urine, we would have a live test.
Senator Inhofe. I see. All right, that makes sense.
Mr. Fosburgh, I was relieved when you said that there are
no cases that have been identified where eating the meat is
going to be transferred. Do you all agree with that?
That is a relief to know. We are a big deer-hunting family,
and I almost had something new to worry about.
[Laughter.]
Senator Inhofe. The last thing I would ask you do you all
agree, also, I was not aware of the deer hunting decline that
is taking place. I think you said that in your testimony. Do
you know what that is attributed to?
Mr. Fosburgh. I think there are a variety of issues at play
with the decline of hunting. It is socioeconomic. Less kids in
the wild, rural parts of this Country than there used to be. It
is much harder to get out in the places to hunt if you are in
an urban area. Places that used to be available just to walk in
and hunt are now subdivisions in a lot of places.
It is just harder to access; it is harder. The hunting
education requirements are tough for a kid who is in high
school and balancing a bunch of sports teams and studying. I
think there are a host of reasons, but I know one of them that
is not helping us is this notion that CWD has now spread to 26
States, so people are scared.
Senator Inhofe. I would say so. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you. Senator Cardin.
Senator Cardin. Let me thank all of our witnesses and thank
the Chair for this hearing.
As Ranking Member Carper pointed out, the State of Maryland
is one of those States where we have discovered CWD in the
western part of our State. We believe is it a regional issue in
the western part of Maryland, including West Virginia and
Pennsylvania. It is not limited to our State. Our State is
taking what they believe is appropriate action.
I think I have a fundamental question. I appreciate the
leadership of the Chairman on trying to increase capacity here
through getting the facts out. I also appreciate all the work
that our different States are doing. It seems to me that CWD
will not be the last case of a mysterious disease appearing in
our wildlife. We should have the capacity to try to stay at
least even with the curve, if not ahead of the curve, in
understanding these types of diseases that affect our livestock
and affect the wildlife.
We have already pointed out the economic impact; there is a
public health impact but also the economic impact. What do we
need to do as far as building the type of infrastructure that
would give us the information we need, so rather than trying to
contain the problem, we can eliminate the problem? What
suggestions do you have?
Mr. Fosburgh. Well, I will jump in first, but I think the
others probably have more thoughtful comments. I think it is a
great question. Prion disease in particular is pretty scary;
you do not know where the next one is going to pop up. Part of
the funding that is currently going through the Interior
Appropriations Bill would provide an extra $1.7 million to the
USGS and to basically the prion centers around the Country to
look into this.
I think that we need to maintain that capacity, because if
it is another prion disease that pops up and we have mad cow
disease, we have scrapie, so they manifest themselves in
different animals in different ways. We need to have that
capacity in place.
Second, the part of the money that is coming through the Ag
Appropriations Bill are really from the State agencies to
provide, for example, do testing. Right now, a lot of States
are limiting factors. If you are a hunter, and you shoot an
animal, and you want to send it in to get tested, it may take
two or 3 weeks to get those results back. That is because of
just the lack of testing facilities allowed in the States.
Part of that money that the States would get would allow
them to expand that capacity, and it may be CWD today, it may
be another disease, but we have that testing capacity and those
labs up and running in the States. I think we can much more
quickly respond to anything that does crop up.
Senator Cardin. Thank you. Yes, sir.
Mr. Leonhardt. Thank you for the question, Senator. I agree
with Mr. Fosburgh on his comments about the labs.
West Virginia has one of those laboratories that does,
within my department of agriculture, do development of testing
for other USDA projects. Some of our chemists and
microbiologists will go out and teach other laboratories around
the Nation. That type of network continues.
If we could get more funding at the Federal level, that is
all a part of this whole study group. Obviously, I would
advocate for it to come into my State, but we would love to be
able to do that type of research.
We are lucky. We border Maryland, and that is where our CWD
is found in the wild, near where we border Maryland. We are
lucky that we have not had any in the captive cervids, but that
is also a measure of, we are testing very heavily on the
captive cervids. I know we are testing a lot of animals in the
wild. Our DNR is doing that. We need to have that testing from
the top down.
The information sharing, because some of this, the Centers
for Disease Control on the human side has put out the warnings
on, do not consume an animal that looks infected, debone your
meat to make sure you are not going in and eating the lymphatic
or the nervous tissue.
There is a concern on the cross side with human, which is
affecting the hunting, but we also have to look at what are
those going to cost to our health care costs on down the road,
should this disease make a jump. We do have unknown diseases
that crop up from time to time. I think we should always have
that ever present in our mind, what is this going to do to the
human cost, as well as what it is doing to our wildlife cost.
Importance, funding this properly, because of that
connection and I think, is very important.
Senator Cardin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nesvik. Senator, excellent question. I have a couple
additional thoughts, and I would agree with my colleagues here
on what they just testified to.
I would also add that, specifically, with this particular
disease, as the Chairman pointed out in the beginning of the
hearing, it is so much different than other types of diseases
that we are familiar with. Literally, if this disease, because
of the recommendations that come from the Centers for Disease
Control and the World Health Organization about not consuming
meat that comes from an infected animal, it has the potential
to affect the way we manage wildlife across the entire United
States.
Right now, hunting is at the core of our model for being
able to fund wildlife management, and also be able to manage
those herds. If that is threatened by diseases like this prion
disease that we know so much less about than we do like a
bacteria or a virus, it really brings to the highest priority a
prion disease as a focus for what is contemplated in this bill.
I believe that because of that, we should put our focus here
and not on any other diseases right now. This has to be the
priority, from my perspective.
Senator Cardin. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much. Senator Capito.
Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank the
witnesses here. I have learned a lot about something I did not
know a whole lot about. I really appreciate it, as Senator
Inhofe said.
Commissioner Leonhardt, let me ask you, in your testimony
you talked about how you have the captive and the wild and your
area of expertise, or where you are in charge, is in the
captive deer, and that you test every captive deer for meat for
CWD. Is that correct?
Mr. Leonhardt. Yes, Senator. Every deer that goes to
slaughter for meat, we take a sample before the meat can be
consumed. That sample is tested to make sure it is safe for
human consumption. On the hunting side, we only test 10
percent.
Senator Capito. Right. OK. How do they determine what those
10 percent are? Do you know?
Mr. Leonhardt. It is random.
Senator Capito. Is it random, or voluntary?
Mr. Leonhardt. Yes, it is random. It is voluntary.
Senator Capito. Does it take two to 3 weeks for the test to
come back?
Mr. Leonhardt. No.
Senator Capito. No. Can you get it done in a couple days?
Mr. Leonhardt. I believe that is the case.
Senator Capito. Is that a unique model to West Virginia, or
do other States like Wyoming and others have a bifurcated
system depending on how they oversee their herds?
Mr. Leonhardt. I really do not have a good answer. I can
get that information for you, Senator.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Mr. Leonhardt. I will say that West Virginia is actually
looking to other States that have captive herds, and we are
starting to develop our emergency action plan should we find a
case of CWD within a captive herd. Just like we do whether it
be avian influenza for our poultry, or whether another disease
comes into our livestock industry, we are developing an
emergency action plan for chronic wasting disease is captive
cervids. Then we will tabletop that exercise to make sure all
agencies are involved.
Senator Capito. Thank you. I know that you have worked a
lot to try to modernize the lab at the State agricultural lab,
and we also have a Federal USDA lab in the eastern panhandle,
as well. I think West Virginia could play a big role in better
research and development, such as what is desired in this bill.
Let me ask you, in terms of the hunting issue, the public
perceptions, and Mr. Fosburgh sort of got into this a little
bit. Honestly, I can not even think in West Virginia that I
have actually seen a public service announcement or some kind
of warning or a whole lot of talk. We are a big hunting State.
Are these kinds of things going on, or is it just sort of
left to the DNR and to the Ag to inform the hunter or the
domestic deer owner population? How does that information get
out?
Mr. Leonhardt. I believe the DNR publishes it in their
hunting regs, so when somebody goes to look up the deer hunting
regs for this year, they will see a blurb on chronic wasting
disease in there.
Senator Capito. Mr. Fosburgh, do you have something to add
on that?
Mr. Fosburgh. Yes, I think most of the States do give that
same warning in their regs on CWD, particularly the ones that
have it. There is also a fine line between raising awareness
about it and panicking people.
Senator Capito. Right.
Mr. Fosburgh. You will see a bunch of these articles about
zombie deer and things like that, and I get scared. I eat a lot
of deer. I think that what we are trying to do is have a
responsible approach to have people understand what it is;
there is a way we can fight it; it is not the end of the world
right now. It is also, we have got to take this seriously.
Senator Capito. Yes. Mr. Nesvik, do you have a different
perspective on that from your State?
Mr. Nesvik. No, I share that, I think Mr. Fosburgh outlined
that very well as far as the concern and not overreacting to
the way that this is messaged to the public. We do the similar
efforts. We message this, and that is been the focus, as I
mentioned in my oral testimony, this citizen working group that
we formed recently was to increase awareness across the State
just so folks understand what it is and what the potential
implications are.
In response to one of your questions to the Commissioner,
we do a three-pronged approach to testing. We have our agency
folks target and surveillance specific animals. If they see an
animal that looks like it is exhibiting clinical symptoms of
the disease, they will remove that animal so it can be tested.
Then we also, hunters can voluntarily submit their sample, if
they wish to have it tested, and that typically, the turnaround
is about 2 weeks. Then we also set up surveillance check
stations where we ask hunters to let us take a sample as they
are leaving the field with their harvested animals.
Senator Capito. I would really encourage the more
professionalization as we look at this, we are realizing that
it has been, like Senator Inhofe, I did not realize it has been
around as long as it has. You can see the spread of it. I am
sure Oklahoma, like we said, if it does not have it, it is
going to get it. It is almost an inevitability, especially if
you are close regionally.
What I think is really interesting from the CDC's
perspective and from the perspective of the animal health, a
lot of these research entities, there is cross-pollination of
information. We may learn something as we do a deeper dive into
chronic wasting disease that could actually help us with other
diseases that are human-borne diseases. I think the support at
the Federal level for that type of sharing of information and
research is exceedingly important, so thank you for what you
are doing. Thanks again, Commissioner, for being here.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Capito. Senator Braun.
Senator Braun. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Listening to the testimony, I was trying to see if there
was anything optimistic or any good news within what we are
dealing with. It sounds like a disease from hell. Sixteen years
of viability, 1,700 degrees to kill it through heat.
I did see one thing that caught my attention. That would be
that, of course, in Wyoming you have got mule deer, elk, white-
tailed deer, and moose. In Indiana, we just have white-tailed
deer. When it comes to the economic consequences, we have
mentioned all the fees and of course tourism, the motels, all
the economy that is generated.
There is another aspect. I have managed forest ground for
probably 35 years. Twenty, 25 years ago, hunters actually
leased ground, and it is the only cash-flow you have outside of
the timber harvest to maintain your woods between harvests.
That is a significant market. It used to be, I would never
believe anybody would pay you to hunt, but it is up to $25 an
acre in places like Indiana, so it is a big deal.
The other thing that caught my attention was that the fact
that it was only found in one moose out of 1,120 tests. There
was also an observation that it has been static and maybe
slightly declining. I think you have had it in Wyoming for 35
years or so.
I would like to know more about, to me, the most empirical
piece of evidence would be what are your deer herd populations
doing in the midst of this. We track that down to the number
harvested each year in Indiana. What are you seeing in harvest
numbers and herd numbers in general?
Mr. Nesvik. Yes, thank you, Senator, excellent question. I
would just say that, first, we have seen in certain parts of
the State the prevalence where the number of deer as a
proportion of the population that have the disease has
flattened, and in some cases, it has even declined a little
bit. The other side of that is, is that the distribution in the
State has continued to move every year. Every year we have
several new deer hunt areas in the State where the deer have
CWD.
Has this created directly a decline in deer populations? We
only know of a couple of places where that potentially happened
directly related to CWD. There are a lot of other factors that
contribute. We do think, though, in places where we already
have other stressors in the environment, like habitat
conditions or predation, that CWD can be a contributor that can
actually exacerbate a problem that already exists.
I will tell you, on the bright side of things, as you
mentioned, really, we do not see this in moose commonly at all.
We have only had one. They just had in Montana the first ever
this fall. They detected it in a moose here a couple months
ago.
In an elk, only about 25 percent of our State's elk herds
have CWD in them. Typically, in elk, it runs in a much lower
prevalence level, even in the endemic area where it started in
our State. Usually, it is 6 percent to 12 percent is the
prevalence rate, whereas deer in the same exact area will
sometimes run as high as 50 percent.
It is less in elk, more in mule deer, and that is what we
have seen. I can not say that we have seen a direct impact to
license sales because of CWD, but it is certainly a concern of
ours for the future.
Senator Braun. Well, that tempers it a bit. I think the
fact that it would always be that fear or concern of
transmissibility from animals to human beings. That would be a
thing that would cascade everything into a catastrophe.
It sounds like, though, from what you have observed over 35
years, it does have some self-regulation to it, to where it
does not wipe out. Like in Indiana, we deal with, Senator
Cardin mentioned it earlier, I think this whole, when we see
hunting trends in general starting to go down, that it is going
to be, and this legislation to me makes sense because I think
that if we keep it out there to where we can authoritatively
say that it is never going to be transmissible.
I do not know, are there other diseases through prions that
have affected human beings? Is there anything? I saw feral
swine is a possibility. Could you comment on that?
Mr. Fosburgh. Mad cow disease. The outbreak happened in
England. It is another prion-based disease.
Senator Braun. That is the only one where it is gone from
an animal to a human being?
Mr. Fosburgh. Well, Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease is the one
that is in humans, but these are all variations of the same
thing. I am not sure if scrapie has ever jumped to humans. Not
that I know of.
Mr. Leonhardt. We do not know that scrapie has.
Senator Braun. Very good. Glad we are doing the hearing on
this, and I look forward to seeing what we can do here, because
I think we are catching it at a point in time to where
hopefully we can at least build some confidence out there among
hunters that we know more about what is going on. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso. Senator Boozman.
Senator Boozman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with the
Senator from Indiana. We appreciate our leadership on both
sides having this really important hearing that affects the
entire Country in so many different ways.
Mr. Nesvik, a new survey by U.S. Fish and Wildlife says
that presently, 5 percent of Americans 16 years or older hunt.
Fifty years ago, it was twice that. They are telling us also
that in the next decade or so, the numbers are continuing to
really plummet.
Certainly, with chronic wasting disease being a major
problem in Arkansas, this is not helping the situation. As you
guys know better than anybody, you couple that with declining
fishing and the other outdoor activities, it really means a lot
less dollars to be able to have to use for the programs that
are so, so very important that affect our outdoor life.
I guess the real question, one of the things we are talking
about is Senator Barrasso's legislation. He has another bill,
also, the Chronic Wasting Disease and Transmission in Cervidae
Study Act. Again, if we were able to get these things
legislated, how is that going to affect you? Is that going to
make a dent in this? Is it going to be a good thing or a bad
thing or a great thing?
Mr. Nesvik. Well, I can tell you, Senator, that I think
that No. 1, we have to do something. This is a serious enough
national problem that has the potential to affect our model for
managing wildlife that we have to do something. Failing to
address it because it is complicated is just not the way we
roll in this Country.
I think this is an opportunity for this committee and for
everybody involved to lead and to provide some opportunities to
look at solutions to this thing. I agree with you that there is
definitely concern. Even if we did not have this disease, there
would be concern with participation in hunting. I can tell you
that addressing this is very important, I think, to that
future.
I think also that we are very fortunate in Wyoming. We are
a State that hunting and fishing is part of our culture, and we
have not seen those declines like we have nationally, but we
are concerned about that as well. One of the things that I am
very passionate about is that we, I think that the best thing
we can do today to ensure that we continue to have people that
care about wildlife in the future and that are willing to
participate, is to inspire a kid, and it is for life. That is
something that we believe strongly in our State, and we are
promoting heavily right now because I think that is the best
thing that we can do.
Senator Boozman. The draft legislation would establish a
taskforce which would be charged with submitting an interstate
action plan within 1 year after appointment of its members. The
interstate action plan would detail how the States and Federal
Government can work together to achieve consistent management,
public education, and research practices relating to CWD.
The report must describe the progress on the implementation
of actions identified in the interstate action plan, updated
resource requirements needed to reduce and eliminate CWD in the
United States, any relevant updates to the recommended best
management practices included in the interstate action plan,
new research findings and emerging research needs and any other
relevant information.
How would that help you if you had that kind of
information, going forward and coping with something like this?
Maybe even a great template as these things are going to come
up in the future.
Mr. Nesvik. Certainly. I think, Senator, to answer your
question, what that does is it provides a framework so that all
these different efforts that are going on right now, all of
these different entities that I mentioned earlier, States,
Federal Government, non-governmental organizations, scientists,
are brought together in a unity of effort so that we can be
more efficient with resources.
I think that if this was to pass and we were to provide
that report with a suspense, I really like that. It forces
action in a short amount of time. It does not allow
bureaucratic drag; you have to do this in 1 year. I think
putting that kind of emphasis on it like is outlined in the
draft bill gives those that are going to have to deal with this
and make decisions on it framework, focus, and priority, in
order to get this done in a short amount of time. I think that
is how it helps.
Senator Boozman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator. Senator Gillibrand.
Senator Gillibrand. Mr. Nesvik, to date there is only been
one occurrence of chronic wasting disease in New York in Oneida
County in 2005. No new cases have occurred in New York since.
However, the disease remains a serious threat to our white--
tailed deer population, particularly given recent detection of
the disease in Pennsylvania, our neighboring State to the
south.
What are the most likely pathways for the spread of chronic
wasting disease into areas where it currently does not occur,
and what more could States be doing to prevent the spread of
chronic wasting disease into our State through those pathways?
Are there best practices that can be employed?
Mr. Nesvik. Senator, there are probably two pathways that
are known to most wildlife managers. One is through the spread
of just animal to animal contact. We do not know a lot about
the mechanics of how the disease is transmitted from one animal
to the other, but we do believe it happens from animal to
animal contact, or because it is persistent in the environment
somehow. Contact with concentrations of the prion in the
environment exposes animals to it and allows an animal to
become infected.
The second way is through anthropogenic methods where deer
are moved, deer or elk are moved from one State to another
through commercial operations. Those are the two pathways that
I think most wildlife managers would agree are the primary
transmission modes.
Senator Gillibrand. In the animal to animal transmission,
is that through contact? Is it airborne? Is it through feces?
What is the transmission?
Mr. Nesvik. Senator, there is not any good information that
indicates it is airborne, but nose to nose contact, through
breeding, potentially through exposure to waste on the ground
are probably where most scientists would look toward now with
the current evidence that we have.
Senator Gillibrand. Mr. Fosburgh, given the large number of
wildlife management issues facing our States, from threatened
and endangered species protection, to other wildlife diseases,
do States have the financial resources and technical expertise
to adequately prevent and address outbreaks of chronic wasting
disease, and what are the impacts on a local and regional
ecosystems and environments when an outbreak of chronic wasting
disease occurs in wildlife populations?
Mr. Fosburgh. I will tackle the first question first, which
is, do they have the resources to deal with this, and the
answer is an unequivocal no. There was steady funding coming
from the Federal Government through 2011, then it dried up,
about $15 million a year that went to State wildlife agencies
for surveillance and testing.
Since that time, as the disease has spread, the States have
had to divert resources from habitat restoration programs,
reinforcement programs, from research, to dealing with the CWD
crisis, which is why we have $15 million in the House Ag
Appropriations Bill that has come over to the Senate right now.
We hope the Senate will agree to that number from the House, as
opposed to the $2.5 million it has provided because I think
that money to the States is critical.
Second, in terms of the impacts on the ecosystem when the
disease arrives, there is not much visible impact that you can
see, but what needs to happen is you have to reduce deer herd
pretty significantly. A State like Illinois, which got it and
had a very aggressive response, went out and basically killed a
lot of deer and had hunters as part of the solution, it has
really kept the disease at background levels, less than 1
percent. Whereas other States are taking a more laissez-faire
approach and seeing it blossom to 50 percent prevalence in
certain counties, like Wisconsin.
Senator Gillibrand. It reminds of mad cow disease. Has
there been any correlative research done?
Mr. Fosburgh. Yes. They are both prion-based diseases, so
we mentioned scrapie.
Senator Gillibrand. Is prion a bacteria?
Mr. Fosburgh. Prion is not a bacteria.
Senator Gillibrand. What is it?
Mr. Fosburgh. I will ask the doctor at the front of the
room. It is a mal-folded protein, is that correct, Senator?
Senator Barrasso. Yes.
Mr. Fosburgh. It is one of these weird things, scary
things, that people do not really understand very much about.
You have Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease in humans, mad cow disease
in bovines and then humans, scrapie in sheep, and now chronic
wasting disease in deer, all very similar. There is a prion
research center at Case Western University that is digging into
this, and a few other places as well. There is still a lot of
research that needs to be done.
In that Interior Appropriations Bill, that $1.72 million is
being provided to USGS to expand the research into this prion-
based disease, including how it is transmitted, so we will know
a lot more if we get more money into the facilities that are
doing this work.
Senator Gillibrand. Mad cow disease was linked to the feed
that they were being fed inappropriate proteins.
Mr. Fosburgh. Yes, they were basically turning cows into
carnivores, and essentially, they were eating more cows.
Senator Gillibrand. That does not give us any insights into
wild deer.
Mr. Fosburgh. No, it does not, and again, I will to defer
to somebody who actually has a science degree, to opine more on
this.
Senator Gillibrand. Is there any evidence that it is
bacteria-related, and that it could be tick-borne?
Mr. Fosburgh. No. There is none. In fact, that is been
pretty widely debunked, if I am correct.
Senator Gillibrand. They do not believe it is a tick-borne
illness?
Mr. Fosburgh. No.
Senator Gillibrand. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Gillibrand. Senator
Carper.
Senator Carper. Again, this has really turned out to be an
even more interesting hearing than I would have expected. Mr.
Chairman, I think we have some exceptional witnesses here.
Again, we thank you for joining us.
I have two questions. One deals with public education. I
think I will start with our friend from West Virginia,
Commissioner. The question is, what is the role of public
education in addressing chronic wasting disease? How might a
Federal task force help with public education, and what else
could the Federal Government do to better inform the public
about the risks of chronic wasting disease and its spread?
Mr. Leonhardt. That is a great question, sir. It is hard.
Like we talked about earlier, how far do you alert the public
in education and how far back do you create the alarm?
Obviously, the people that are out pursuing the wild game, we
want to make sure that they are protected, but we do not want
to necessarily alert the public and make everybody think, there
is this big problem going on, and there is a deer in my
backyard, and I am going to get chronic wasting disease because
the deer walked through my backyard.
We have to be careful on that public education side of
things. The most important thing I think we can do on the
education side is use some of our land grant institutions to do
some of the research, particularly through the departments of
agriculture.
Senator Carper. Could one of those be in Morgantown?
Mr. Leonhardt. One of those could be in Morgantown. There
also could be one in Charleston, too, because we have two in
West Virginia. West Virginia State University, we can not leave
them out.
We actually, what we need to do is we need to make sure
that more importantly, on the public education side is the
warnings for those that are out pursuing within the containment
areas, like in West Virginia, they have a containment area, and
it is designated in the department regulations. Not my
regulations, the DNR regulation.
Then the hunters are more aware, if they are hunting in
that area, to be on the lookout for an animal that just does
not look right. If you call the game warden, they will even
come out and look at it, and they will even give you a new tag
if that deer is picked up.
I also sent a letter recently to our Department of Highways
asking them to make sure within the deer containment area, the
DNR-designated containment area, to make sure that they do
roadkill disposal more promptly and more properly. My
discussion with the Secretary of Transportation the other day,
he said, yes, we are going to make an effort. We are going to
pick those deer up off the road quicker.
His biggest problem is getting them buried deep enough to
keep the scavengers away from them. I believe scavengers is one
of the more prevalent ways that the disease is being passed.
It is just like we talked about the mad cow disease, and
the Senator was talking about the feedstuff. They were not
heating the feed high enough to the 1,700 degrees to kill the
prion to be used in the feed. They changed the whole process in
the way the feed of animal refuse was being used to create the
protein to feed the animals, so the heat processor was not up
there. I guess it was a cost-effective thing, and that is how
the disease ended up spreading.
What we need to make sure that we do is, and you know, we
have had other diseases in other areas of the world, like the
gypsy moth. We have a Slow the Spread program that USDA funds,
and we do a spraying program, and that is an education to the
public in the area where our oak trees were in trouble.
That is the type of education outreach. As we do the
research, we are going to learn more and more, and then we can
do slow baby steps based on the sound science as we learn. It
is very important that we do this research. It is very
important that this gets off the ground so that we can make
those baby steps to slowing the spread.
Senator Carper. Thank you. Let me just ask Mr. Nesvik and
Mr. Fosburgh, do you agree with anything that our Marine friend
has said? Do you agree will all of it, or most of it? Want to
add anything very briefly?
Mr. Nesvik. Ranking Member Carper, I would agree with what
the Commissioner said. The one thing I guess I would add is
that the World Health Organization and the CDC have both said
if you know it is infected, you should not eat it.
I will tell you that in Wyoming, we know that there is been
a lot of Chronic Wasting Disease infected deer and elk that
have been eaten by people. Luckily, nobody has been infected.
That does not mean that anybody should not heed the
recommendations of those two organizations, but I think that is
an important point for people to know. That is part of the
education process.
Senator Carper. That is a good point. Thank you.
Mr. Fosburgh. I would just say that one of our frustrations
is there is a naysayer community out there, led by some B-level
celebrities who claim that this is all a hoax, that we do not
have to worry about it, that this is a hoax perpetuated by the
insurance companies to try to reduce deer numbers.
Our bottom line is, when we get something defended out of
Congress, like the National Academy of the Sciences that really
talks about this disease and what we need to do, we put to bed
a lot of that crazy talk that is really confusing hunters and
moving us backward in some places.
Senator Carper. Speaking of B-level celebrities, I want to
close on a lighter note. The Chairman and I enjoy music and
sometimes have a little fun with music lyrics. When we have
folks who testify before us and they point to the need for more
funding for a particular cause, in many cases worthy, I recall
a great song. It turned out, I just found out, it written by
Berry Gordy of Motown Records, and the name of the song is
Money, That is What I Want, a Whole Lot Of, Money, That is What
I Want. That is a recurring theme in this hearing room, and
frankly, other hearing rooms as well.
The version of the song that is most popular, is best
known, was recorded by a British group, four British lads, I
think they are the Beatles. The last group to record that song
that I am aware of, in terms of wildlife conservation, was a
group called The Flying Lizards.
On that note, we will say thank you for being here. I asked
my staff to look up the term virtuous circle, or virtuous
cycle, you have probably heard that term before. Virtuous
circle refers to a circle that has favorable results. There is
another term, vicious cycle, and vicious circle, it is just the
opposite.
I think what we have going here is the threat of a vicious
circle. There are concerns about the deer and with the deadly
disease, but precedence of hunting is dropping, apparently, for
deer. As the incidence of hunting that goes down, there is less
revenue collected, at a time when we have a shortfall of
funding. Less revenue is collected from a number of excise
taxes, including from firearms, ammunition, even hunting and
camping equipment, stuff like that.
It actually gets to be a vicious circle, a vicious cycle.
All the more important for us to try to do something more about
it and more effectively about it. Thank you very, very much for
an interesting hearing and one that is timely. Thanks so much.
Senator Barrasso. Let me just close with, to Brian, today's
USA Today, Money Section, they do the 50 States, what is going
on in each State. For Wyoming today, it says, Cheyenne, the
State Game and Fish Department says the number of hunting and
fishing licenses sold to women has seen a marked increase in
the past decade, even as those for men has declined a bit.
I am just going to ask, because you talked about the impact
and the economies, can you talk a little bit about what you are
seeing at home?
Mr. Nesvik. Yes, I do not know that I can explain exactly
why, but I can tell you that it is a very positive trend. We
are glad to have new women, we support that, and we spend a lot
of time trying to help certain events and certain types of
programs that encourage women to get more involved in the
outdoors, and it is a good thing.
Senator Barrasso. I appreciate that, and I am going to show
you a picture of a deer that my daughter Hadley shot on
Thanksgiving Day in Wyoming. I will get you that in a few
seconds. I have been sharing with the members up here in the
committee, and they are all very envious, and I think they all
want to come to Wyoming hunting, because of what the wildlife
is like.
If there are no more questions, members may also submit
questions for the record, so the hearing record is going to
stay open for 2 weeks.
I want to thank all the witnesses for their time and their
testimony today. The hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:29 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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