[Senate Hearing 116-539]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                                                        S. Hrg. 116-539
 
                       VETERAN SCAMS: PROTECTING
                         THOSE WHO PROTECTED US

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                     ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS


                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             WASHINGTON, DC

                               __________

                            NOVEMBER 6, 2019

                               __________

                           Serial No. 116-15

         Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging
         
         
         
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        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
        
        
        
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             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
47-207 PDF           WASHINGTON : 2022        
        
        
        
                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                   SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Chairman

TIM SCOTT, South Carolina            ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania
RICHARD BURR, North Carolina         KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York
MARTHA McSALLY, Arizona              RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
MARCO RUBIO, Florida                 ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts
JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri                DOUG JONES, Alabama
MIKE BRAUN, Indiana                  KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona
RICK SCOTT, Florida                  JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
                              ----------                              
            Sarah Khasawinah, Majority Acting Staff Director
                 Kathryn Mevis, Minority Staff Director
                 
                 
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

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                                                                   Page

Opening Statement of Senator Susan M. Collins, Chairman..........     1
Opening Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Ranking Member     3

                           PANEL OF WITNESSES

Benjamin Wells, Volunteer, Vet2Vet-Maine, Portland, Maine........     5
Laverne Foreman, Army and Air Force Veteran who was Scammed by a 
  Fake Veteran's Charity, Herndon, Pennsylvania..................     7
W. Dewayne Richardson, DSW, District Attorney, Fourth Circuit 
  Court, District of Mississippi, Indianola, Mississippi.........     9
Carroll Harris, Acting Inspector in Charge, Communications, 
  Governance and Strategy Group, United States Postal Inspection 
  Service, Washington, D.C.......................................    11

                                APPENDIX
                      Prepared Witness Statements

Benjamin Wells, Volunteer, Vet2Vet-Maine, Portland, Maine........    37
Laverne Foreman, Army and Air Force Veteran who was Scammed by a 
  Fake Veteran's Charity, Herndon, Pennsylvania..................    43
W. Dewayne Richardson, DSW, District Attorney, Fourth Circuit 
  Court, District of Mississippi, Indianola, Mississippi.........    47
Carroll Harris, Acting Inspector in Charge, Communications, 
  Governance and Strategy Group, United States Postal Inspection 
  Service, Washington, D.C.......................................    50


                       VETERAN SCAMS: PROTECTING

                         THOSE WHO PROTECTED US

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 6, 2019

                                       U.S. Senate,
                                Special Committee on Aging,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m., in 
Room 562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Susan M. 
Collins, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Collins, McSally, Rubio, Hawley, Braun, 
Rick Scott, Casey, Gillibrand, Blumenthal, Jones, Sinema, and 
Rosen.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR
                   SUSAN M. COLLINS, CHAIRMAN

    The Chairman. This hearing will come to order.
    Good morning. Next week, Americans will honor our Nation's 
veterans who have paid the price for our freedom in times of 
conflict and served as our shield in times of peace. Today 
nearly 20 million Americans have earned the title of 
``veteran.''
    I am proud to say that Maine is home to more than 114,000 
veterans, the second highest percentage in our entire Country. 
We owe them such a great debt. The gratitude we express in 
words on Veterans Day can repay this debt only in small 
measure. A truly grateful Nation must match its words with the 
actions.
    As we will learn today, one issue that calls for our 
immediate action is to fight a newer enemy facing our veterans, 
and that is those relentless con artists who seek to rob them 
of their life savings and defraud them of the benefits they 
have earned in service to our Country.
    Often, veterans fall victim to the same scams that this 
Committee has highlighted in recent years, such as the IRS 
imposter scam, the grandparent scam, the romance scam, the 
Jamaican lottery scheme, and identity theft. Veterans are 
disproportionately affected by these schemes, but there is also 
troubling evidence that some fraudsters are deliberately 
targeting veterans, and they are structuring their scams in 
order to reach our veterans.
    For example, in a case that we will hear more about today, 
fraudster Tammi Palasini set up an entity called the Veterans 
Pension Planners of America. Sounds legitimate, does it not? It 
was not. She used it to operate what is often referred to as an 
``aid and attendance scam.'' Her pitch was that she could help 
veterans diversify their assets to get beneath the threshold to 
qualify for VA benefits if they released their assets to her so 
that she could invest them on their behalf. Instead, she stole 
their assets and spent their money. All told, Ms. Palasini 
defrauded 78 victims out of $2 million dollars before she was 
arrested and convicted on multiple State and Federal charges.
    Scammers also exploit public support for those who have 
served our country by creating fake charities that supposedly 
raise money for needy veterans but instead funnel funds from 
generous contributors to greedy fraudsters.
    In one recent case, a con artist operating out of Michigan 
was convicted of stealing nearly $200,000 from 36 victims who 
thought they were donating to charities benefiting veterans. 
Not only did the veterans never see a dime of this money, the 
fraudster added insult to injury by stealing the victims' 
personally identifiable information to commit identity theft. 
Fortunately, through the very good work of the U.S. Postal 
Inspection Service, this criminal is now behind bars.
    Other criminals promise to help veterans claim benefits 
from nonexistent Government programs, or they charge 
inappropriate fees for helping veterans apply for the benefits 
they have earned, or they exploit the sense of comradery that 
veterans feel for one another to gain their victim's trust and 
then swindle them out of their savings.
    These regrettably are not isolated examples. Surveys show 
that more than three-quarters of our veterans have been 
contacted by con artists. Given these facts, what action should 
we take to protect our veterans?
    Certainly, the cases we will highlight in this hearing show 
the value of aggressive prosecution. That sends a real message 
to other criminals out there that they will be pursued, they 
will be caught, and they will be brought to justice.
    As this Committee has often noted, many con artists operate 
offshore, beyond the reach of our State and local law 
enforcement, and some veterans are simply too embarrassed to 
report that they have been scammed, although they should not be 
because it can happen to anyone.
    Instead, we must find ways to protect our veterans from 
scams before they become victims. Education is one way. That is 
one of the reasons we are holding this hearing today. Another 
is to build on the comradery veterans have for one another by 
bringing them together to provide another set of eyes.
    The non-profit Vet2Vet Maine program shows how the trusted 
judgment of a fellow veteran can stop a scam before it starts.
    Before closing, I want to note the recent GAO study that 
identified actions that the Veterans Administration can take to 
better protect veterans from aid and attendance scams. 
According to GAO, the VA receives reports of potential fraud or 
exploitation, but it does not analyze this information to 
assess the prevalence of scams, inform its outreach efforts, or 
to help law enforcement pursue these criminals.
    I believe that the VA should take a leading role in this 
fight. The Ranking Member and I, as well as other members of 
this Committee, will be writing to the Secretary of the VA to 
ask what steps the Department is taking to assess the risk 
posed to our Nation's veterans and what can be done to protect 
them from fraud.
    As Veterans Day approaches, we remember all those who 
served, not just by honoring their service through our words, 
but also by the actions that we take. Veterans and their 
families have a right to expect that the Nation they served 
will fight to protect them from unscrupulous individuals. As 
the AARP says in its bulletin, ``They protected us. Now it is 
our turn.''
    I am now happy to turn to our Ranking Member, Senator 
Casey, for his opening statement.
    Thank you.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
              ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., RANKING MEMBER

    Senator Casey. Chairman Collins, thank you for holding this 
important hearing, especially as we prepare for Veterans Day.
    I am pleased, as I know we all are, that we are joined by 
three veterans, one of whom is an active reservist, on this 
panel today. We want to thank each of you for your service to 
the Country and grateful for your testimony today.
    Veterans Day is only days away, and it is a day when we 
honor those who served our Country, not only in war, but also 
in peace and it is a reminder of our abiding responsibility to 
serve them, to serve them in return.
    President Lincoln outlined a simple but vitally important 
mandate when it comes to the care that our veterans are owed: 
``That we must care for him who shall have borne the battle and 
for his widow and his orphan.''
    Way back in 1991, my father was taking the oath of office 
as Governor, it just happened to be the day before the invasion 
of Iraq when our soldiers were heading into combat, and at that 
time, he said, and I am quoting, ``We pray for them and for 
ourselves that we may be worthy of their valor.''
    Being worthy of their valor, if you are a legislator, if 
you happen to be a Member of Congress, if you are going to 
prove yourself worthy of their valor, you ought to prove it. 
You ought to prove it by your actions.
    Here in the Senate and the Congress overall, we have the 
opportunity and the ability to demonstrate that we are worthy 
of their valor by ensuring veterans receive every single 
benefit that they are owed and even more, and when we learn of 
barriers to those benefits, we must work to overcome those 
barriers.
    That is why I am fighting so hard to hold the Department of 
Veterans Affairs accountable for providing every veteran access 
to information about their VA benefits.
    My legislation, the VA Website Accessibility Act, which I 
hope we can pass by the end of this year, would get us one step 
closer to comprehensive accessibility for veterans. It is why I 
am also fighting to ensure that caregivers who watch over our 
veterans every single day are supported and given respite.
    The Supporting Veteran Caregivers Act would ensure veteran 
caregivers cannot be arbitrarily kicked out of the VA 
Caregivers program. As we will discuss today, it is why 
Chairman Collins and I wanted to hold this hearing, to ensure 
that not one more veteran--not one more veteran loses one more 
penny to a scammer, a schemer, or a con artist, so we must not 
stop with just the hearing.
    We know that 78 percent of veterans reported receiving a 
scam attempt related to their veteran status, almost eight out 
of ten. If we are to be worthy of the valor of our veterans, 
this number should be zero, not 78 percent. It should be zero.
    A recent report from the GAO found that the VA lacks a 
central clearinghouse for soliciting and collecting information 
on potential financial exploitation of veterans receiving 
pension benefits. To say this is troubling is an 
understatement.
    The GAO provided the VA with clear recommendations for 
addressing this problem, and now I am quoting, ``systematically 
solicit and collect information on potential financial 
exploitation'' and ``assess this information to address plans 
to address the potential exploitation of veterans receiving 
pension benefit.''
    Instead of working to implement the recommendations, the VA 
is putting in place a process that the GAO claims would ``not 
fully address the underlying issue.'' I think they are being a 
little charitable there in their assessment of what the VA is 
doing in response.
    This is totally unacceptable. That is why we are sending a 
letter--members of this Committee, Chairman Collins and I and 
others--to find out more about this decision and also why the 
VA is not doing more to combat scams against veterans.
    As we will hear today, in order to put an end to the 
predatory practice of scammers, scammers of the worst kind who 
prey upon those who have served, there needs to be an all-
hands-on-deck approach. We need to find a way to stop these 
scammers from getting through phone lines. We need to be sure 
that people are educated about how to avoid becoming victims of 
a scam. There must be a place to report scammers, whether that 
is the Department of Justice, the Federal Trade Commission, the 
VA, or right here at the Aging Committee by way of our Fraud 
Hotline. We need to ensure that prosecutors have the tools they 
need to go after these criminals and keep them behind bars.
    I am certain that our hearing today will touch upon all of 
these topics and more, but it is unconscionable to me that 
someone would stoop so low as to steal money from someone who 
agreed to sacrifice so much for our Country. It is also 
unconscionable to me and I know members of this Committee that 
someone would stoop so low to pad their own pockets by spewing 
a tale of caring for veterans, when they are doing nothing of 
the kind.
    Chairman Collins, this hearing could not be more important. 
We thank you for holding it, and we look forward to the 
testimony of our witnesses.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Casey.
    I want to acknowledge that Senator Braun and Senator 
Blumenthal have joined us, and we are now going to turn to our 
panel of witnesses.
    Our first witness is Ben Wells from Portland, Maine. Mr. 
Wells is an Air Force veteran who participated in Operation 
Enduring Freedom. He flew 35 combat missions, earned an Air 
Medal, and was honorably discharged in 2013. He then had the 
wisdom to move to the great State of Maine, where he became 
involved in the Vet2Vet program, a local nonprofit that matches 
veterans for companionship, mentorship, and other assistance.
    I will now turn to our Ranking Member to introduce our 
second witness.
    Senator Casey. Thank you, Chairman Collins.
    I am pleased to introduce LaVerne Foreman, who is at our 
witness table today, all the way from Herndon in North 
Cumberland County. Now, that is a pretty good ride from here. 
LaVerne, we thank you for making the trip, and we are grateful 
you are willing to be with us.
    LaVerne served in the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Army 
Reserve, as well as the National Guard. He later worked as a 
civilian employee for the Army. He is here today to share with 
us what happened to him a few years ago when con artists stole 
money from him claiming it would go to a veterans organization. 
LaVerne later learned that there was no organization. He 
reported what happened, and it is possible that he will be able 
to help the prosecution of the scammers.
    I would also like to welcome LaVerne's wife, Doris, who is, 
I think, over his right shoulder, who is with us today, his 
daughter, Terry, and son-in-law, Jeffrey, who are also here.
    We are all so grateful, LaVerne, as we are to all of our 
veterans today, and we hope every day that we are grateful for 
your service but especially for taking the time to be here. 
Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Our next witness will be Dewayne Richardson, the District 
Attorney for three counties in Mississippi. He has been a real 
leader in combating these scams. First elected at the tender 
age of 30, one of the youngest DAs in the State's history, Mr. 
Richardson later became the first African American to serve as 
president of the Mississippi Prosecutors Association.
    Finally, last but certainly not least, we will hear from 
Inspector Carroll Harris, the acting Inspector in Charge of the 
Communications, Governance, and Strategy Group at the United 
States Postal Inspection Service. Inspector Harris is also a 
lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserves, who has 
served in Iraq and Kuwait and was awarded the Navy and Marine 
Corps Commendation Medal. He now leads Operation Protect 
Veterans for the Postal Inspection Service and will discuss its 
efforts to combat fraud targeting our veterans.
    Mr. Wells, we will begin with you.
    Thank you all for being here.

                 STATEMENT OF BENJAMIN WELLS, 
           VOLUNTEER, VET2VET-MAINE, PORTLAND, MAINE

    Mr. Wells. Thank you, Chairman Collins, Ranking Member 
Casey, members of the Committee. Thank you for having me here. 
It is an honor to speak about this issue.
    As you said, Senator Collins, I was an Air Force veteran. I 
got out in 2013 and relocated to Maine in 2014. Upon arriving 
there, I wanted to continue my dedication to service, and I was 
looking for opportunities to volunteer while I applied to 
graduate school. I found Vet2Vet Maine, a simple internet 
search, and I liked what they had to say. They offered 
companionship for isolated veterans. Senator Collins indicated 
that there is a significant number of veterans in the State. 
What I would also like to emphasize in the State of Maine is 
that there is a significant number of elderly men and women in 
the State, and veterans are not exception.
    What Vet2Vet Maine seeks to address is the isolation of 
those veterans, first and foremost, but also connect them with 
benefits that they likely qualify for and have not been 
receiving.
    When Vet2Vet contacted me, I went in, and they gave me a 
background check and got me trained up and connected me with a 
veteran who was in his 80's. He was a Korean War Air Force 
veteran who was a maintainer on jet aircraft.
    Over the course of several weeks, I was in his house once a 
week meeting with him and his wife, having conversation, 
coffee, taking him out to lunch, getting him out of the house. 
It was clear to me that they were isolated. They lived in 
Windham, Maine, which is not a metropolitan area. I was able to 
have a good connection with them, and I became aware that he 
had never, in 60 years of being out of the military, been 
connected with the VA in any way.
    I also became aware that his wife had contacted the Vet2Vet 
Maine program as a way to get respite care potentially and 
maybe in-home care, as he was in declining health. He had 
significant health problems, including physical issues, chronic 
pain, and diabetes. At the time that I saw him, they were 
spending hundreds of dollars on diabetes medication alone and 
living off of a very small pension from a telecommunications--
his work in telecommunications and his Social Security 
benefits. That became my first order of business is to try and 
get him connected with the VA and get him the care, medical 
care, potentially pharmaceutical care, that he not only 
qualified for and deserved but really, really needed.
    In the process, I was able to help them fill out the 
paperwork. I contacted the Vet2Vet Maine program to get him a 
case manager and make them aware of some of his needs in the 
home and see if there are other organizations that could help 
them out.
    In that process, she continued, as paperwork was slow to 
process, as it always is. She continued to reach out. She saw 
an ad in the newspaper--I think it came with the coupons--for a 
program that was advertising free in-home care and respite care 
for veterans. Free sounds really good to a person on a fixed 
income, so she contacted this organization.
    She had the foresight to also reach out to me to sit in on 
this conversation. I accepted. The nature of this was two 
gentlemen showed up to the house offering free respite or in-
home care to them. Their sales pitch was that what they were 
going to do is they were going to assist them in obtaining a 
pension from the VA, and that would also allow them access to 
the Aid and Attendance Program, as you previously mentioned.
    What they wanted and what struck me, sort of the first red 
flag in this situation, was how they were going to finance 
this, and they wanted my veteran to open up a separate checking 
account that they had draft rights on so they could auto-draft. 
The VA pays you direct deposit. They were going to auto-deduct 
whatever pension and benefit that they got.
    That is not out and out illegal or anything, but there was 
no conversation as to why that existed instead of regular 
payment methods.
    I started to ask questions. They then continued and said 
how they were going to get him to qualify the means test, which 
all these pension of benefits are means tested, and he was 
slightly over, and at which point, he started to describe a 
method that they could report medical bills to the VA to lower 
their total income and pass a means test. That is fine, except 
that even with medical bills, even with the hundreds of dollars 
in insulin, they were not going to pass it.
    He suggested that they employ, in air quotes, their 
daughter as a medical aide, which she was not qualified, 
trained, or certified in, to do things like filling their 
prescriptions over the phone or going and picking up 
prescriptions and this sort. They could pay her, which they 
were not going to, a stipend, and then put that into their 
accounting. The fuzzy math is where I really threw down that 
this was not a good idea.
    Luckily, they trusted me. I said, ``You really should not 
do this,'' and they were able to avoid the scam. They ended up 
going through the regular process. They got benefits. They got 
in-home care and respite care through, I believe, the VA and 
some other organizations. Ultimately, he was moved to hospice, 
and then he passed. At least in the later stages of his life, 
he had that care, and it did not put significant financial 
strain on the veteran.
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you so much for intervening and caring 
enough to do so. I just cannot imagine what the final years of 
life would have been for this couple if they had not followed 
your advice. I am sure that they would have lost everything 
that they were getting that was in that separate checking 
account.
    Mr. Foreman?

        STATEMENT OF LAVERNE FOREMAN, ARMY AND AIR FORCE

               VETERAN WHO WAS SCAMMED BY A FAKE

            VETERAN'S CHARITY, HERNDON, PENNSYLVANIA

    Mr. Foreman. Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Casey, 
members of the Committee, I thank you for inviting me to 
testify here today. It is an honor to be here and talk to you 
about veterans scams.
    My name is LaVerne Foreman, and I am 82 years old. I live 
in the Herndon area in Pennsylvania. I am retired both from the 
Civil Service as well as the military, having served in the Air 
Force, the Army Reserves, and the Army National Guard. I am 
proud to be a veteran. For the most part, people thank me for 
my service. It never occurred to me that someone would be so 
cold-hearted to make a call and claim to care for veterans 
when, in reality, all they are doing is lining their own 
pockets. Five years ago, I learned how reckless they can be.
    When I received a phone call from Senator Casey's office 
inviting me to testify before you today, I was pleased to 
accept the invitation an share with you what happened. It is 
not easy for me to talk about this, being scammed. What I am 
doing today is an extension of my service. I feel a sense of 
responsibility to warn others who served and to be vigilant 
against scams.
    Let me explain. In September 2014, I received a call from 
an organization, Disabled and Paralyzed Veterans Fund, or DPVF, 
requesting a donation. I was told in the conversation that the 
organization was dedicated to helping disabled and paralyzed 
veterans. It raised funds to support VA hospitals and end 
veteran homelessness. I have donated to similar organizations 
in the past because of my concerns for and the sensitivity of 
my peers.
    I pledged at that time to send a one-time donation to DPVF 
for $20. However, when I received the pledge letter, the 
organization that they sent me, it showed that I had pledged 
$25. I thought this was odd. However, rather than arguing with 
them, I sent the $25, as listed.
    The following year in 2015, DPVF called me again to request 
a donation. I pledged to give an amount that was given 
previously. Again, when I received the pledge letter, it was a 
few dollars more than I had pledged on the phone, this time 
$35. I grew even more suspicious but believes it was just the 
way of fundraisers trying to get more money.
    I tried calling the organization in Washington. They listed 
a Washington, DC, telephone number, but it was of no help. I 
ended up writing a letter to them to explain that I had agreed 
to a lower amount and that I questioned their approach. I 
enclosed the check for the $35. I did not want to get into an 
argument, and I asked them at that time to remove my name from 
their contact list. I did not want to hear from them again.
    In February 2016, when I received my statement from my 
credit union, I noticed a check listed with a number that is 
not within the number sequence of my checks. I thought it was 
strange. I called my credit union, and they confirmed that it 
was a remotely generated check from Disabled and Paralyzed 
Veterans Fund.
    I was kind of shocked that they must have made a copy of my 
check and kept the routing and account number information. I 
had not spoken to this organization or sent a recent donation, 
and I realized I was scammed.
    There are a lot of legitimate organizations, veterans 
service organizations, VSOs, like Paralyzed Veterans of 
America, Disabled American Veterans, but I soon realized that 
there is no such organization as Disabled and Paralyzed 
Veterans Fund.
    At that point, I reported this matter to the Pennsylvania 
Attorney General's office. I was later contacted by the U.S. 
Postal Service and was glad to hear that there is an 
investigation, and that there will be some kind of action taken 
against this organization.
    I know that I can be considered one of the lucky ones. I 
did not give the scammer a lot of money, and I noticed the 
fraudulent check immediately. I know not everybody is as lucky 
as I am.
    These phony organizations and the people who steal money by 
pretending to help veterans must be stopped. I never believed 
that anyone would stoop so low as to steal money and benefits 
from a veteran. These scam artists rip off innocent people, and 
as a result, contributions are diverted away from organizations 
that are actually trying to do something for the veterans.
    My loss may seem small, but I am certain that these 
scammers have targeted thousands, if not millions, of more 
people. The total sum of this bounty probably far exceeds 
anything I will ever earn in my lifetime, and that is wrong.
    On behalf of veterans, I ask everyone who can help to stop 
this activity to play their part.
    Thank you again for inviting me to testify today. I hope by 
sharing my story, I can help someone from losing money to these 
types of scammers.
    I thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Foreman, for coming 
forward and warning others. That is courageous of you, and I am 
sure that you will save others from going through what you did, 
even though you were able to stop it pretty quickly.
    District Attorney Richardson, welcome.

            STATEMENT OF W. DEWAYNE RICHARDSON, DSW,

            DISTRICT ATTORNEY, FOURTH CIRCUIT COURT,

        DISTRICT OF MISSISSIPPI, INDIANOLA, MISSISSIPPI

    Mr. Richardson. Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Casey, and 
members of the Committee, I am District Attorney Dewayne 
Richardson, and I represent the Fourth Judicial District of 
Mississippi. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before 
this Committee about our office's investigation and prosecution 
of the crimes committed by Gina a/k/a Tammi Palasini.
    My office first became aware of Palasini's actions due to a 
single bad check. This check led to the unraveling of a fraud 
that amounted to millions of dollars stolen from the elderly, 
veterans, and their families.
    In 2011, Palasini was formally introduced to 89-year-old 
Grace Ward and her family through staff at a facility where 
Grace Ward was a resident. Palasini promised the Ward family 
that she would provide a 10 percent return on their investment, 
along with securing Medicaid benefits for Grace Ward, which 
could be used to offset the cost of living at the facility. 
With that promise, the Ward family presented Palasini with a 
cashier's check in the amount of $189,000. That was Grace 
Ward's life savings.
    When Grace Ward passed away 3 months later, the family 
contacted Palasini, who assured them that she would repay their 
money plus interest. After many false promises and excuses, 
Palasini had a check hand-delivered to the Ward family on 
September 30, 2011, in the amount of $192,000. This was to 
include the initial investment as well as $3,000 in interest, 
and it was at this moment when Palasini committed the crime of 
check fraud.
    Grace's son, Roy Ward, contacted my office as Palasini's 
business has a location in my district, and after learning the 
depth of Palasini's crimes against the Ward family, my office 
manager, Tamicko Fair, became determined to do everything 
possible to make this family whole and attempt to recoup their 
funds.
    My office's investigation into Palasini would last almost 5 
years. She was tracked down after being listed in the Riverside 
County Mental Health Board's monthly meeting agenda, and at 
that time, she was operating as Senior Benefits Consulting in 
Riverside, California.
    With the assistance of Hugh McClendon with the U.S. 
Marshals Service for the Northern District of Mississippi and 
other law enforcement agencies, Palasini was captured, 
arrested, and brought back to Mississippi on our Sunflower 
County warrant. It was also at that time, due to media 
publicity, that I began to receive phone calls from other 
victims from across the State, and it was also at that time 
that I learned of an investigation being conducted by Kyle 
Parker, a U.S. Postal Inspector.
    One of those additional victims that I spoke with was World 
War II Air Force veteran Johnnie Ray Toland. As Mr. Toland grew 
older and began to show signs of Alzheimer's, his children 
began to look for assisted living locations for him, and staff 
members at one of those locations introduced the Toland family 
to Palasini in 2011.
    The Tolands were made the same fraudulent promises as the 
Wards, and Palasini was able to convince that family to hand 
over control of $340,000 of their funds. Palasini guaranteed 
that Mr. Toland would receive veteran's benefits as well as the 
same return on his investment as she promised the Wards.
    Johnnie Ray Toland went on to live 3 more years, and it was 
not until his passing that his family learned of Palasini's 
fraudulent scheme. On the same day of his funeral, a Postal 
Inspector contacted his son, Jimmy, and told him of Palasini's 
fraudulent schemes and also told him that on the same day that 
they gave Palasini control of their dad's $340,000, she used 
their money to purchase a race car and advertising for her son.
    Ultimately, Palasini was convinced in three counties in 
Mississippi: Wayne, Pike, and Sunflower. She was sentenced to 
serve 20 years in prison for all three counties today.
    In addition to the Mississippi convictions, Palasini was 
also charged later in 19-count Federal indictment in 2015. She 
pled guilty to one count of the indictment and was sentenced to 
53 months in custody to run at the same time as she served the 
Mississippi time. In the Federal conviction, Palasini was also 
ordered to pay over $2 million in restitution.
    After speaking to the victims of Palasini, words cannot 
express the level of devastation she imposed on their lives. 
All of her victims were elderly citizens, some of whom were 
veterans.
    For the Ward family, Palasini's crimes imposed a severe 
financial hardship. I learned that Grace Ward's one desire as 
she grew older was that she be able to provide for her family 
financially after her death, and Palasini took that way from 
them.
    In total, Palasini was ordered to pay over $2.5 million in 
restitution between State and Federal courts. To date, Palasini 
has not paid one cent in restitution in my conviction in 
Sunflower County, and she has only paid in all her crimes $50 
toward a $100 mandatory Federal assessment.
    A well-respected prosecutor in Mississippi has often said 
it is our duty to care for our widows, our orphans, and our 
elderly. What began as a complaint for a felony worthless check 
has brought awareness to a greater problem in our society.
    Victims described Palasini as a very smart, connected, and 
ultimately a very conniving individual. Palasini found her 
victims at the very institutions that should have cared for and 
protected them, but when she presented them her proposals, she 
came to the meetings with all the right credentials and all the 
right connections to achieve the results that the victims 
desired. However, in the end, all she left each family with was 
an empty bank account and broken promises.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify before this 
Committee, and I look forward to answering any questions.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much, DA Richardson. I am very 
grateful for your compassion for the victims of these crimes 
and your determination to put these criminals behind bars. 
Thank you.
    Inspector Harris?

         STATEMENT OF CARROLL HARRIS, ACTING INSPECTOR

           IN CHARGE, COMMUNICATIONS, GOVERNANCE AND

              STRATEGY GROUP, UNITED STATES POSTAL

              INSPECTION SERVICE, WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Mr. Harris. Good morning, Chairman Collins, Ranking Member 
Casey, and members of the Committee. Thank you for holding this 
hearing on veteran-related scams.
    My name is Carroll Harris. I am the acting Inspector in 
Charge responsible for communications within the U.S. Postal 
Inspection Service, the law enforcement, crime prevention, and 
security arm of the Postal Service.
    I started my career in Government service when I joined the 
Marine Corps in 1990. I served 10 years of active duty, 
including combat duty in Iraq. I continue to serve as a Marine 
Corps reservist.
    According to a recent AARP survey, veterans are twice as 
likely to unknowingly participate in a scam as compared to the 
general population. The survey also found that the vast 
majority of veterans encounter scams that have been tailored 
just to them. These will be veteran pension buyouts, fake vet 
charities, and scams that offer special access to veteran 
benefits but for a fee.
    In these cases, the scammer makes it appear they represent 
a Government agency or veteran organization or claim that they 
themselves served in the military so they can create a sense of 
affinity. Imposters like these know that members of the 
military have been trained to rely upon and to trust other 
service members and to honor the bonds of service.
    Another finding from the survey found that veterans 
experienced post-traumatic stress at a rate more than double 
the general public. It can be extremely difficult for a veteran 
to recognize when their otherwise good judgment has been 
temporarily clouded by what an experienced fraud operator is 
selling.
    In one case, Postal Inspectors investigated Gina Palasini 
who led vets to believe she was a certified advisor affiliated 
with the Department of Veterans Affairs. She told older 
veterans, she could boost their pensions by making it appear 
they had fewer assets than they really did and could then 
qualify for greater government assistance. She also offered to 
reinvest her client's money in financial products that she 
would control, but Palasini failed to warn them she was 
jeopardizing their benefits with clever moves like these.
    In reality, the fraud operator never reinvested the money 
on the veteran's behalf. She simply took the money and spent it 
on herself; that is, of course, until she landed in jail.
    In another case, a fake charity led people to believe their 
donations would help disabled and paralyzed veterans, 
especially vets who were vulnerable to suicide. Mr. Foreman, 
another witness here, received one of their solicitations in 
his mailbox. He generously gave. His donation never went toward 
helping anyone but the scammers, who have been referred to the 
Department of Justice for prosecution.
    In 2017, AARP and the U.S. Postal Inspection Service 
launched Operation Protect Veterans. Since that time, we have 
been sharing tips on how vets can safeguard their assets and 
protect their personal information. With the help of veterans 
organizations, libraries, senior centers, and more than 30,000 
post office across the country, we distributed these customized 
brochures and surveys.
    The survey has served two important purposes. First, it is 
a means for veterans to tell us what kinds of scams they are 
seeing, but more importantly, by filling out the survey and 
returning it, it has raised their awareness. Even more, we 
believe it has boosted their immunity to fraud.
    When Postal Inspectors are asked how can consumers stay 
safe financially, we tell them just remember to stop and talk. 
If you receive a request to invest money or pay a fee or 
collect a prize or send money to someone you have only known 
online, find a friend before you reach for your wallet. People 
who operate fraud schemes are successful because they are 
persuasive and because they have convinced us to keep it a 
secret. Why? Scams only work when we are isolated from the 
people we know and trust at any age but especially after we 
retire. We all need to make sure there is an extra pair of eyes 
on the decisions we make about our money. We need a trustworthy 
friend or a family member we can talk to. In the military, we 
refer to this person as our foxhole buddy. We like to say, ``I 
have got your six.'' Think of the hands of the clock facing 
forward at 12 and backward at six. ``I have got your six'' is 
another way of saying ``I have got your back.''
    When I was in a foxhole, my buddy was the person I trusted 
to be my eyes when I could not see, and I did the same for him. 
My buddy literally was up when I was down, and when he was 
down, I was up.
    I use a lot of military jargon. I grew up in a household 
where it was used freely. My father served in combat in 
Vietnam, and my grandfathers served in World War II. 
``Service,'' ``honor,'' and ``duty'' were household terms used 
daily.
    When the Postal Inspection Service launched Operation 
Protect Veterans, I shared this brochure with my dad. I told 
him, ``Dad, you have me to talk to about money matters, but not 
everyone has someone to confide in. Maybe you can help others. 
Pass this brochure to your friends. Be a foxhole buddy for 
someone else.''
    Before I conclude, I want to thank the Committee for its 
efforts to stop fraudulent phone calls. We know the scams do 
not just happen over the telephone line, but the ease with with 
a telemarketer can influence others over the phone is 
unparalleled.
    Postal Inspectors routinely tell consumers, work with their 
phone service providers to stop robo and other unwanted calls.
    Thank you for helping to keep fraudulent calls from ever 
ringing out phones in the first place.
    I appreciate the opportunity to share with you the work 
that Postal Inspectors do to protect veterans and safeguard the 
American public from fraud.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Inspector Harris. I know 
firsthand what a great job the Postal Inspection Service does, 
and I really appreciate your passion for this cause, so thank 
you.
    Mr. Wells, Mr. Harris talked about how important it was to 
have someone that an older veteran can talk to, and as I 
understand it, that is exactly what you did. Could you tell us 
a little bit more about the Vet2Vet program and the training 
that you received?
    Mr. Wells. Absolutely. The Vet2Vet program provided its 
volunteers, does provide its volunteers with training to 
understand, first and foremost, how to connect with the 
veterans, contact them weekly, send them emails, followup, see 
how they are doing, because they are going to be the eyes and 
ears in the household. How can you recognize if your veteran 
has a bunch of food that is in the refrigerator going bad? Can 
you recognize if they are able to maintain and upkeep 
themselves and maybe recognize some signs or symptoms of 
cognitive decline or mental health issues but really just sort 
of to be the eyes on the ground?
    As far as scams go, they offered some training on how to 
recognize financial scams, some information on scams that had 
been perpetuated before, and then a big focus of what that 
training was, it was to allow the veterans to understand--the 
veteran volunteers, I should say, the volunteers to understand 
the number of organizations and benefits that veterans and 
elderly qualified for in the State.
    We did not have to have an intimate knowledge of these 
things or an encyclopedia knowledge of these things but 
recognize if there is a need that we could refer back to the 
agency and that they would be able to connect people for legal 
benefit, for health care benefit, whether it was VA or State or 
just even in the community, that they were the resource.
    The Chairman. Let us talk about the scam that you helped 
prevent. A lot of times, the con artist uses the telephone or 
the internet to send an email or a solicitation comes in the 
mail, as Mr. Foreman mentioned, for a phony charity, but if I 
understood you correctly, in this case, it was a flyer, an ad 
that was included in the local newspaper, the Portland Press 
Herald, I assume, along with all the other flyers and ads. Is 
that correct?
    Mr. Wells. Yes, ma'am. It was an ad that was placed. I 
think it was part of the newsletter for the Southern Maine 
Agency on Aging, but it was something that just was sent out, 
like anybody. Most people toss these things away as junk mail, 
and it was a small ad. It was advertising exactly what I said, 
which was free in-home and respite care for veterans, so 
directly targeting advertising.
    The Chairman. This is an unusual method of trying to rip 
off our veterans. Most of the ones that we hear about are the 
telephone calls, the robocalls, the internet scams, or the 
direct solicitations in the mail. I think, in many ways, people 
would be less on guard for that kind of approach.
    Was it difficult for you to convince this older veteran 
that it was a scam, or had you built up a relationship by that 
point so that he and his wife trusted your judgment?
    Mr. Wells. I do not think it was difficult at all. It was a 
sad thing to see that he, the veteran, was really excited about 
this because, finally, his wife had some relief. He was not 
mobile, or it was very hard for him. He had the assistance of a 
walker, and we are talking about a 200-pound, 6-foot man in his 
80's, and she was also in her 80's. He was really excited about 
this opportunity, and then I had to sort of sweep the rug out 
from under them.
    His wife almost immediately said that--once I had laid out 
why this was likely a bad idea and sounded like it would expose 
them, at the very least expose them to legal problems with how 
they were going to do the accounting and potential fraud, she 
definitely, because of our relationship and what she had seen 
with me and her husband, was right on board.
    The Chairman. Inspector Harris, one of the advantages of 
the Postal Service is there are post offices everywhere, in 
very small communities as well as larger urban areas.
    Tell us a little bit about how you make sure that this 
important flyer, which warns veterans about scams but also 
cleverly has them fill out the survey so that you can get 
information and they get more educated. How are they 
distributed, and how do you advertise this program?
    Mr. Harris. Yes. Chairman Collins, thank you for that 
question.
    There are over 30,000 post offices across the Country, and 
the post office lobby is incredibly valuable real eState for 
the community. As part of our efforts to help spread the word, 
raise awareness, we have placed these brochures in those 
lobbies across the country. We did that back in 2018, and we 
have received many responses from them. We believe that we have 
helped not only veterans but the population in general by 
highlighting the scams and schemes that are out there, and we 
hope it served as a call to action to also share with others as 
we seek to enlist everyone in the fight against fraud by 
raising the awareness and calling them to help protect 
themselves and serve others in the community.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Casey?
    Senator Casey. Thank you very much, Chairman Collins.
    LaVerne, I will start with you. As I was listening to your 
story again and seeing it in writing but also hearing you 
telling it, I was reminded that it would be very easy for a lot 
of people to send that little extra, few extra dollars after 
you knew that it was more than you had promised, and because of 
the dollar amount, you could see how easy it would be for 
someone to gradually fall into the trap.
    Absent this hearing and absent being educated by my staff 
and others, without that, I probably would have done the same 
thing.
    When you think about the dollar amounts, we live in a 
country--I just had my staff check. I think the U.S. number is 
about 18 million veterans. I know in our State of Pennsylvania, 
it is over 800,000. About 819,000, I think, is the last number 
I saw.
    The number of veterans is so big and the targeting is so 
substantial, if GAO is right that about 80 percent, roughly, 
have been targeted, you could get a lot of money accumulating 
with those small-dollar amounts. It is very easy for any one of 
us to fall into that, number one. Number two, when I go around 
our State and visit senior centers, one thing I try to urge 
folks to do, knowing that it could happen to anyone at any age, 
is to hang up if you have any suspicion. I do not think I would 
have had a suspicion in the case that you cited. I would have 
probably gone along, at least at one point. I hope maybe I 
would have cut it off when you did.
    Mr. Foreman. Right.
    Senator Casey. Other than something as simple as saying if 
you have some suspicion, hang up, that is pretty simple advice, 
but, I guess, what other tips would you give especially to 
veterans based upon the experience that you had? The fact that 
you are here provides that kind of advice for others.
    Mr. Foreman. The number one action we took was caller ID to 
screen calls.
    Senator Casey. Right.
    Mr. Foreman. I feel that is an important step in the right 
direction. I do not answer calls that I do not recognize.
    The other is that if you do respond to a telephone call and 
somebody is asking for funds is to not provide a credit card or 
a check number. Force them to send you a pledge letter. They 
all will do it.
    We also have to recognize how we as veterans telegraph our 
veteran's status, and we do it unknowingly. Seventy-five to 80 
percent of the return labels I put on my letters are either 
American Legion, VFW, USO, something to do with the military. 
People receiving those, even if they were not knowledgeable 
that I was a veteran, my letter basically tells them. Plus, the 
credit union that I use is primarily one that is from a 
military organization.
    There is multiple ways I am telling them that I am a 
veteran, even though I do not verbalize it on the phone.
    Senator Casey. That is pretty easy to fall into that.
    I want to ask you one more question. In your case, the fake 
charity used the bank and routing number from checks you had 
sent them to take money out of your account, and as you 
referred to in your testimony, they use the information to 
create a ``remotely generated check,'' kind of a phrase of art.
    This type of check, as we know, is legal but only when the 
account holder gives permission for the money to be withdrawn 
in this way.
    You mentioned you were shocked when you found out about it, 
and clearly, you were not aware of remotely generated checks 
before this, nor was I until you brought it to our attention.
    Is there anything you wish your credit union could have 
done prior to the funds being removed to confirm that you did 
not give your consent, now that you are on the other side of 
anything----
    Mr. Foreman. Now that I am on the other--it would be nice 
if the financial institution--they know the sequence of your 
checks. They normally sort by numeric sequence, and in that, my 
organization always puts an asterisk after if there is a 
skipped check. In my case, at that time, my check series was 
like 3600, and all at once, there is a check that is coded 
9000. You would think that would set off some kind of a bell or 
whistle at the financial organization. I wish it was that way, 
but it did not happen.
    Senator Casey. Thanks very much, Madam Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Braun?
    Senator Braun. It is amazing that we are even discussing 
this and that there seems to be like a farm system of bilkers 
out there.
    I am curious. Ben, do you know when that particular 
individual started that scam--and is it still going on--what 
the life span is of the folks that get into the business of 
bilking? Do you know in your case?
    Mr. Wells. I mean, I am speculating. I could not tell you 
exactly the timeline, but it sounded like the operation was 
fairly new by the way that they were describing it, and 
afterward, I did a recent research.
    When I first had a contact with them, I had their business 
card, and I kicked myself for getting rid of it. I did a recent 
research, and I could not find anything that was under that 
name any longer. I am also going off of memory for the name, so 
I am not sure if I had it exactly right.
    Senator Braun. They could have faded into the sunset----
    Mr. Wells. Absolutely.
    Senator Braun [continuing] and gotten by with what they 
did?
    Mr. Wells. Yes.
    Senator Braun. LaVerne, do you know is the Disabled and 
Paralyzed Vets Fund still out there sending solicitations?
    Mr. Foreman. I do not think so. As far as I know, they have 
been shut down.
    Senator Braun. I know even just running a company, when it 
comes to checks, that does not discriminate in any way. It 
attacks anyone that has a check out there. We constantly in our 
own company will find checks where they get your check, do a 
reproduction, and then, in this case, 9000 out of context with 
3000, it seems like the institutions themselves--I know we have 
had discussions before, what is the responsibility of phone 
companies or banks when it comes to a lot of this stuff should 
be easy to ferret out among the institutions that are used to 
process these scams.
    Dewayne, I am curious. The battle against this, is the life 
span short of the scammers, and where you get rid of one, you 
are going to have two or three crop up? What has the trend line 
been? Is it getting worse? Is it getting better? It seems like 
there is a lot of tools out there technologically where if the 
institutions that are used--banks, phone companies--were on 
their game, that you could figure this out before it becomes 
rampant.
    Mr. Richardson. Well, from what I can tell, it is dependent 
upon whether or not the scammer is caught.
    In this instance and what I have seen in this 
investigation, Palasini started this action over 10 years ago, 
and it was not until 7 years later when she was ultimately 
convicted for all crimes, so she had at least that time period.
    Also, in doing so, I learned that in California, she had 
made contact with other scammers, and there were two other 
individuals that started a business with her. In looking at 
their background, both of them had previously had problems with 
the law, so who knows to what extent they have done it or may 
still be doing it?
    Senator Braun. That had the disguise of actually maybe 
having some legitimacy to it in the sense that you were going 
to get a good return, but it would be similar to Madoff where 
you did not have to pay out, and that in this case, 50 bucks on 
$2 million. There is a lot to be said that we need to do a 
better job of preventing and getting the institutions that are 
normally the vehicle, whether it is a bank or a phone company, 
more involved in it.
    Carroll, because the Postal Service is used so often to be 
again an agent for this, are you finding more? Is it 
stabilizing? Less? What does the prognosis look for down the 
road?
    Mr. Harris. The Postal Service has no interest in being an 
unwitting participant in any of these scams or schemes. As long 
as there is commerce, there will be scams and schemes; hence, 
the existence of the Inspection Service, our partnership with 
our other Federal, State, and local entities. We are going to 
continue to engage in the fight. It is still alive and well. It 
evolves.
    Robocalls and the good work of the Senate, to stop the 
robocalls, an example of a digital evolution, but eventually, 
they connect to the mail. We move communications in commerce. 
We move physical goods, and eventually, the conspiracies at 
times will work their way into our web. That is when we catch 
them, and we engage with our Federal partners. We seek a whole-
of-Government approach.
    Senator Braun. Are your antennae more alert now, and do you 
have methods and policies where you are starting to prevent it? 
Or are you generally reacting to a fair accompli?
    Mr. Richardson. We use both. We believe strongly in 
prevention, prevention messaging, optimizing the messaging that 
we give to the public and the American consumer. We also 
vigorously enforce the laws as they are written, so it is both, 
and we have been doing both for decades.
    Senator Braun. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Jones?
    Senator Jones. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all 
the witnesses for being here. I really appreciate all we are 
hearing today, especially from a fellow prosecutor and Postal 
Inspector, I worked with as U.S. Attorney a lot.
    You know, Madam Chair, I cannot help but think, though, as 
we are listening to this concerning illegal scams and criminal 
activity, I hear the same phrases of diverting money and false 
pretenses and taking hard-earned money from veterans and 
particularly protecting and caring for our widows, our orphans, 
and our elderly, and I cannot help but think about a somewhat 
legal scam--I am just going to say it--that you and I have been 
working on, and that is the elimination of the veterans' 
military widows tax.
    Congress of the United States is allowing that to be 
diverted and changed, and I appreciate your work so much on 
helping us. I am still hopeful that we can get that in our NDAA 
this year so we can eliminate that scam once and for all.
    I would like to kind of focus initially with my DA buddy 
and Mr. Harris because I know firsthand these are difficult to 
track down and prosecute, and technology is changing. It seems 
like when I was a prosecutor and even as a defense lawyer some, 
it seemed like the bad guys were always a couple of steps 
ahead. They were able to work and to do things.
    What tools do you need? Are there other tools that you 
could use right now to both track down and prosecute?
    I appreciate the idea of deterring and trying to make 
awareness, and that is wonderful that we are trying to do that. 
We are not going to stop this. I mean, it is going to continue. 
What can we do as a Congress to give you additional tools on 
both the State and Federal level to try to stop these guys in 
their tracks so that these folks do not last for years before 
they are apprehended?
    Mr. Harris. Thank you for the question, Senator.
    The Inspection Service has been in consultation with the 
Department of Justice to seek an expansion of our 
administrative subpoena authority to be in par with other 
Department of Justice, Federal law enforcement agencies, so 
that we can do more quicker to fight frauds or any of the other 
200 Federal statutes we enforce to maximize the existence of 
our resource. That is something that we are in consultation 
with Department of Justice.
    We believe they are exploring the legislative approach to 
help us become on par with other DOJ entities there, so that is 
something that can help us.
    Your continued support of our Federal law enforcement 
partners, your efforts to stop robocalls, I applaud. If you 
continue on that lane, I believe we are making a dent, and we 
are forcing the criminal conspirators to evolve.
    Senator Jones. Right.
    Mr. Richardson. Mr. Jones, thank you for the question.
    From what I have noticed, there are a lot of businesses 
like that, that Palasini operated. She operated businesses by 
the name of Veterans Pension Planners, Medicaid Planning 
Resources, Medicaid Planning Specialists, Senior Benefit 
Consulting. All of these sounded legitimate, and there are many 
other businesses like this.
    I would think that, one, maybe if companies such as this 
are required to register or have various qualifications to 
administer the service that they are telling their constituents 
they can provide, that may be of some benefit. If those same 
companies, those preparers were somehow required to sign off on 
those applications that they are telling their constituents 
that we can provide just resource with providing Medicaid 
services or veterans benefits service--if they are somehow 
required, just like a tax preparer, to sign off and put their 
name on a dotted line saying that they are the ones responsible 
for the information generated, so that we will be able to have 
some type of record definitely who is involved with what case.
    Senator Jones. That is fair. I really appreciate that, and 
I would urge both of you to look at a bill that Senator Cotton 
and Senator Rounds and Senator Warner and I have to update our 
money laundering statutes. We have got it pending right now. We 
are hoping to get through, and, DA Richardson, it would address 
just that very issue, the issue of beneficiary ownership, and 
require an index, require a list of the beneficial owners of 
all of these shell corporations that are out there performing 
these scams.
    Thank you, and I would urge the DA's association to maybe 
get involved and get behind that.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator McSally?
    Senator McSally. Thank you so much, Chairman Collins. 
Thanks for having this important hearing.
    Thanks for all of you for sharing your testimony, 
especially Mr. Foreman. I know there are so many like you who 
are not willing to come forward and share your testimony of 
what you went through, so thank you so much for that.
    These scams are coming in so many forms, and I will tell 
you, as a veteran myself, there is a special place in hell for 
these people who are scamming on our heroes who raised their 
right hand, took an oath of office, were willing to give the 
ultimate sacrifice, and they come home and now in a vulnerable 
place and in their older years or whatever age. These people 
are going after them.
    I really appreciate this hearing, and we need to do more to 
do everything it takes in order to find them, track them down, 
and hold them accountable. This is infuriating.
    These scams come in many different forms, as you all have 
shared, one of which was highlighted in Arizona recently where 
you have civilians who think they are meeting a military member 
on a dating app or some other way, and they are serving 
overseas, and they need some help. This is where now civilians 
are being roped into caring for our military, and Luke Air 
Force Base has said they are receiving many calls from 
civilians asking, ``Is this person really in the military? Are 
they really deployed?'' and they are having to kind of help 
sort that out, so somehow or another, tying people's love for 
our veterans and our military and their willingness to help, to 
scam other civilians, so this trend is going up as well.
    I do not know if you can share anything on this perspective 
of how we can--because veterans and military identity are 
basically being stolen to create these false profiles for that. 
Any perspectives on that, DA Richardson or Mr. Harris, on what 
else we can do in order to protect veterans' identities as 
well, that they are scamming others? Everybody is getting 
scammed in this.
    Mr. Harris. Continue expansion of the messaging we are 
providing. Generally speaking, in order to protect PIIs, it is 
something we should do. Hearings like this, other community 
outreach. Identity theft is an international epidemic. Veterans 
are impacted, just like the rest of society. We need to take a 
societal approach to solving this, a whole-of-Government 
approach from the government side, but it is also outside of 
government. It is being that foxhole buddy for someone that 
needs a friend, having someone to check before you make a 
financial decision.
    Senator McSally. Thank you.
    We hear these awful stories, and then as you say, Mr. 
Foreman, you do not trust anybody now. You do not trust 
legitimate charities calling or soliciting you, and that can 
have a really negative impact on those who really do need our 
support.
    I want to highlight another scam. As a veteran, I get some 
of these things in the mail, and this is maybe not an official 
scam in the way it is identified. I get these letters. I have 
been getting gone of them a week lately, and I brought them 
with me to D.C. because I am so mad about it. Administrative 
notice: ``Our review has indicated your VA loan waiting period 
has been marked as expired. Please keep a copy of this notice 
for your records. VA guidelines require waiting periods''--it 
is all nonsense--``and my equity reserves.'' I knew something 
was off because name is Sally Martha Mic on here, Okay? These 
guys cannot even get their facts straight.
    This is an actual bank, Federal savings bank. I am going to 
call them out right now. This is preying upon our veterans. 
Someone betting this is going, ``Oh, some waiting period has 
expired? I need to call these people.'' It looks like it is 
from the Government, and then you thinks g has expired. They 
are preying upon our vets to cash out or to pay ridiculous 
closing fees for legitimate--I mean, it looks like it is a 
legitimate loan, but it is misleading. It is confusing, and we 
are seeing more and more veterans complaining about these types 
of things. I am getting one of these a week.
    Imagine veterans who call this number and then end up 
refinancing their home loan that they do not need to be doing 
for some interest rate and some closing cost that is robbing 
them of their hard-earned resources. This stuff needs to stop 
too, and I am going to see if we can work on this with the VA 
Committee to see how we can tighten up these types of scams too 
because they are confusing and misleading to our veterans.
    Are you aware, Mr. Wells, of these types of other 
activities going on that are also robbing our veterans?
    Mr. Wells. Yes. I get a bunch of those, and I throw them 
out. I get them about my home, refinancing my home, or I use 
the VA-backed mortgage benefit, and since then, I have gotten 
plenty of them telling me that either my VA-backed mortgage is 
going to go up or I need to refinance it or I need to have some 
communication with some entity. I luckily have the wherewithal 
to read the fine print and recognize that it is not an official 
document, but I can only imagine, if I think back to my veteran 
that I was working with----
    Senator McSally. Yes.
    Mr. Wells [continuing] in failing health and struggling, 
and something like this comes across them, and why not?
    Senator McSally. Great. Well, let us work on those as well.
    Thank you all for your testimony today. Appreciate it.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    Senator Sinema?
    Senator Sinema. Well, thank you to our Chair.
    The Chairman. I apologize. I did not see that Senator 
Blumenthal had come back. He was here at the very beginning. I 
apologize.
    Senator Blumenthal?
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and 
thank you for having this hearing.
    As long as I have been a prosecutor, when I was Attorney 
General in Connecticut, as long as I have tried to help 
veterans, this issue has been a perennial one.
    I have to say I was particularly moved by Senator Casey in 
this opening remarks when he referred to his dad and the 
comment about our seeking to be worthy of the services of our 
veterans, and one of those areas where I think we often fail is 
to protect them from exactly these kinds of scams.
    I recently sent a letter to Secretary Wilke along with our 
colleagues calling attention to this problem. I just came from 
a hearing of the Veterans Affairs Committee involving new 
judges at the Court of Veterans Claims. This issue is one that 
is pervasive and ongoing.
    I want to ask perhaps first Mr. Foreman, if I may. Thank 
you, along with the others, for being here today and for 
yourself. I appreciate your sharing your personal experience 
with us. I imagine it is pretty frustrating to be here.
    Mr. Foreman. Yes.
    Senator Blumenthal. You have shared that you frequently 
donate to charities that actually support veterans. 
Unfortunately, this kind of scam is one of the most prevalent. 
If you had to advise your fellow veterans in identifying a 
legitimate charity versus a fraudulent one, what would be the 
signs that you would point out to them? Is there any way of 
telling?
    Mr. Foreman. Not really. Longevity is what I use today, 
those that I know that have been around, and using names, 
American Legion, VFW, USO, like Wounded Warriors, some of those 
that I am familiar with, but it could be an outstanding charity 
that I never heard of. I am not going to donate.
    Senator Blumenthal. Some of them are lookalikes, right?
    Mr. Foreman. Yes.
    Senator Blumenthal. Or sound-alike and lookalike.
    Mr. Harris, can the VA do more, in your experience, to 
protect veterans?
    Mr. Harris. Thank you for the question, Senator.
    I am incredibly thankful for what the VA has done for me 
and other veterans over the years. I have been a recipient of 
care at the VA. I have had multiple procedures. We can always 
do more. Any Government entity can find opportunity to do more, 
and I appreciate any attention, guidance, and oversight that 
they are given so that they can optimize the way they watch out 
for, care for, inform, empower, and inspire veterans.
    Senator Blumenthal. I guess I know that you are sympathetic 
to the VA, and so am I. I am wondering whether they devote 
enough resources to making veterans aware, alerting them, and 
also reporting doing the kind of work that Mr. Wells has been 
doing with his colleagues and fellow veterans. Should they be 
doing more?
    Mr. Harris. I cannot speak as to all of their programs. I 
am not a subject-matter expert on it.
    I can say they have been a good partner of the Inspection 
Service. They have allowed us to extend messaging through their 
podcasts. They have allowed us to extend messaging on their 
blog, but I am not a subject-matter expert on exactly what they 
have in place as far as prevention programs, besides the ones 
with which we have partnered with them.
    Senator Blumenthal. Well, let me just say the Postal 
Service and Postal Inspectors do great work in this area. They 
are really unappreciated, I think, in a lot of what they do. 
People think of law enforcement as the FBI or the DEA, but what 
I found as U.S. Attorney and then as Attorney General was that 
the guys who really put these cases together are often the 
Postal Inspectors and they are able to track down some of the 
perpetrators of these frauds. I am hopeful that the VA can take 
advantage of those skills and make use of them better.
    My time has expired, but I really appreciate all of you 
being here today. Thank you very much.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Scott?
    Senator Rick Scott. I want to thank Chairman Collins and 
Ranking Member Casey for putting this together.
    I served in the Navy, and I have not had a situation where 
they have tried to scam me that I know of. Maybe they have and 
I did not know it. When you really think about it, it is guys 
like my dad who went and serve. He had a sixth grade education, 
and he never had any money. It would have been devastating to 
him if any of this ever happened to him.
    I do remember one time where somebody came to buy one of 
his cars, and they never came back. He was such a trusting 
person. He had been an easy person probably to be a target.
    In 2018, the Federal Trade Commission received 3 million 
fraud and identity theft complaints. I introduced a bill that 
is called the Identity Theft Victims Protection Act, which is 
basically if you have been the victim, rather than go on your 
record, that they mess up your credit, it goes on the record of 
the person that did it to you.
    I know the VA has a hotline to deal with identity theft. 
What else should we be doing with regard to identity theft to 
help our veterans? Like my dad, my dad probably would have 
been--he is a pretty easy target.
    Mr. Wells?
    Mr. Wells. Off the top of my head, I am not an expert on 
this, but I would imagine that if we had a system where 
identity theft specifically for veterans potentially rose to a 
higher level of prosecution, to have it be something as maybe a 
protected class or just a higher level.
    I think also protecting the veterans' information and 
dissemination of that information, whether it is through 
outreach, through the VA, or through other systems. When you 
get out of the military, they want you to register for all of 
these things, so you kind of get in this mode of I am going to 
put down my name and Social Security number, name and Social 
Security number, and maybe have some sort of awareness or 
training at the end of the active duty servicemember's 
enlistment that says maybe stop doing that.
    It is very common to go to the medical in the military, 
name and Social Security, name and Social Security, on all your 
forms always, so maybe introduce a little bit more awareness as 
these things are out there and to protect your own personal 
information.
    Senator Rick Scott. Mr. Foreman?
    Mr. Foreman. I think one of the things is a failure to 
recognize that a lot of us veterans, especially from my era, do 
not have computers, smart phones. They are not on Facebook. 
They are not on all of these new things. I have gone 21 years 
without a television. I have no computer in my house.
    I do not have all of this. I read the paper. I listen to 
the radio. That is where I get my information, from magazines, 
newspaper, radio, so all of the efforts that are being done on 
some of these more modern fancy things, they are going over my 
head.
    Senator Rick Scott. It would not help you.
    Mr. Foreman. I am sure there is a lot of--you figure the 
homeless vets, they are missing out too. There is a lot of us 
older veterans that are not in the social media.
    Senator Rick Scott. Mr. Richardson?
    Mr. Richardson. I would think, similar to what Mr. Foreman 
said. It is a matter of meeting those veterans or meeting those 
potential victims where you find them. As he stated, some may 
not use one type of media or may use another. Many of them may 
have been reached through mail, where the Postal Service might 
get involved or whether maybe the VA can get involved, not only 
creating awareness of the potential scams. There are scammers 
out there that are trying to reach potential victims. 
Especially with vs, especially with our older population, if 
they have money, the scammers want that money. It is a matter 
of finding and reaching those potential victims and veterans, 
where you find them, and reaching out and raising awareness to 
them as far as what to look for because, as the crimes often 
evolve, we also have to raise awareness and evolve the way that 
we--create awareness to those potential victims.
    Senator Rick Scott. Mr. Harris?
    Mr. Harris. I would echo what DA Richardson shared, 
enhanced education and awareness with the target audience and 
the veteran population. They have an incredible infrastructure 
with which they can do this. They have face-to-face time 
through all the other activities that already exist as part of 
what the Department of Veterans Affairs is doing to care for 
its veterans.
    I would say the opportunity exists, and I appreciate you 
asking that question.
    Senator Rick Scott. Thank you, Chairman Collins.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    Senator Sinema?
    Senator Sinema. Thank you to our Chair and our Ranking 
Member for today's hearing on protecting our Nation's veterans 
from criminal fraudsters.
    Arizona has a long and proud tradition to military service. 
One in ten Arizona adults is a veteran, and more than half of 
our veterans are age 65 or older. These men and women 
safeguarded our freedoms, and we owe them a deep debt of 
gratitude.
    It is horrible that scammers deliberately target veterans 
for their pension or their benefits or take advantage of their 
desire to contribute to charities that serve their fellow 
veterans.
    A story from Arizona, Jack Holder, he is a World War II 
veteran, and he is a resident of Sun Lakes, Arizona. He 
survived the attack on Pearl Harbor, and he fought in aerial 
combat overseas. In 2016, he was targeted by criminal 
fraudsters in a sweepstake scam, and it robbed him of $43,000. 
That was nearly his entire life savings.
    Jack survived Pearl Harbor and watched his wife of nearly 
70 years succumb to Alzheimer's disease, but he describes 
realizing when he had been a victim of a scam as the worst day 
of his life. He shares his story, despite the embarrassment he 
feels, because he does not want this happening to anyone else, 
and that is why I have made it my mission to protect Arizonans 
form financial crimes.
    Last year, I was proud to work with Chairman Collins to 
pass the Senior Safe Act into law, which empowers financial 
institutions to report suspected instances of elder financial 
abuse and fraud, and this year, we have continued our work by 
introducing the Senior Security Act, which would create a task 
force at the Securities and Exchange Commission to protect 
seniors from financial crimes, and the Anti-Spoofing Penalties 
Modernization Act, which would increase penalties for criminals 
who use robocalls to harass seniors and veterans.
    There is still so much work to be done, and that leads me 
to my first question, which is for Inspector Harris and DA 
Richardson. Earlier this year, in this Committee, I shared the 
story of Maggie, whose elderly parents in Tucson were robbed of 
their life savings in a sweepstake scam. Maggie's father is a 
20-year veteran of the United States Air Force living with 
Alzheimer's, and their family lost much of what they had saved 
from his military pension.
    In cases like Maggie's family and Jack's, are there ways to 
help people financially recover after they have been robbed? 
Can they get help through their military pension, requiring 
restitution from the criminals, the Tax Code? If there are not 
ways for them to get restitution, what barriers prevent 
veterans from getting some of their life savings back?
    Mr. Richardson. Thank you for the question, Senator.
    From the criminal standpoint, one of the barriers is that 
being able to locate and try to secure those assets. In many 
instances, these criminals are spending it just as they get it.
    In my case, Palasini did this over a period of years, and 
from the investigation, as she continued to defraud different 
victims, some of them, she used that money to pay benefits that 
she told other victims that they would receive month to month, 
and so she would have spent that money but then had to scam 
others in order to pay Paul when she had stolen from him.
    If there is an avenue to allow prosecutors to tie into 
resources of that defendant and be able to--they are required 
to make payment, but oftentimes what we look into or what we 
find is that it is over a period of time, and instead of a 
nominal fee and that family's loss, thousands and millions of 
dollars.
    Mr. Harris. I would echo the same sentiments. The challenge 
we face in some of the investigations we conduct is that they 
have been burning through, in a typical Ponzi scheme, where 
they have spent what they had from before.
    Sometimes getting assets to recover, they just do not 
exist. They have already been expended or distributed, so in 
those cases, it is challenging.
    One thing I do feel compelled to share is through AARP's 
Fraud Watch Network, families can reach out, and they can get a 
live person that can help them navigate these difficult 
circumstances. If they think they have a loved one who is being 
victimized, they can get help. They can get a live person, and 
many of the people that work these lines had been involved in a 
scam or a scheme before. They have a deep passion. They are not 
judgmental, and they can help people. They can determine 
resources. They can help determine which Federal law 
enforcement agencies to refer to, and they can help with level 
setting a financial status to get someone back on track in 
life.
    Senator Sinema. Thank you.
    Thank you, Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Gillibrand, perfect timing there.
    Senator Gillibrand. Lucky timing.
    Thank you, Madam Chairwoman and Mr. Ranking Member.
    Mr. Richardson, thank you for your important work to 
prosecute these scammers and to bring justice to these victims 
of financial fraud.
    We know from your testimony how these scammers like to take 
their schemes across State lines, so they are harder to track 
down.
    Do you think we could be facilitating more coordination 
between investigation and enforcement agencies?
    Mr. Richardson. Yes, definitely so. As I tell everyone that 
I work with, there is always more that we can do.
    In this particular instance, I received calls from other 
agencies that were conducting other investigations later on 
down the line.
    Senator Gillibrand. Yes.
    Mr. Richardson. When my office was first contacted about 
the Ward case, Palasini had already been doing this for a 
number of years throughout the State of Mississippi, and 
because there was no communication or there is no way for me to 
know in northern Mississippi what is happening in southern 
Mississippi, then there is no way to bring awareness to my 
victims----
    Senator Gillibrand. Right.
    Mr. Richardson [continuing]. or to hold her accountable.
    Senator Gillibrand. Do you think we could centralize some 
services, like a national data base, to help law enforcement 
and prosecutors bring these financial fraud cases to justice? 
Do you think we should put resources and organization behind 
that?
    Mr. Richardson. I would definitely think--Senator, thank 
you for the question. I would definitely think that resources 
to provide awareness or to provide a centralized location for 
agencies, whether it is providing more funding to one 
particular agency, to provide that source, because what we find 
is that the numbers are not going to stop.
    Senator Gillibrand. Right.
    Mr. Richardson. If there is not communication between 
States, between local agencies within a State, then there is no 
way to stop those individuals because, in this instance, once 
Palasini was caught in Mississippi and had been in jail and 
knew the convictions were coming, she moved to California.
    Senator Gillibrand. Right.
    Mr. Richardson. It was only through the Postal Service that 
California stopped some of those.
    Senator Gillibrand. Mr. Harris, you have done great work 
with Operation Protect Veterans to raise awareness, investigate 
these horrible scams. As a veteran and Marine Corps reservist 
yourself, you know how to communicate effectively about this 
complicated issue, but could you use some help? Do you think 
the Federal Government, like the FTC, could be doing more to 
listen to experts like you and to disseminate information 
regarding mail, telemarketing, and internet fraud that target 
older Americans?
    Mr. Harris. Thank you for the question, Senator.
    I will always welcome help. Our organization seeks to 
partner actively. We have worked well with the FTC and other 
Federal entities in the past, and we will continue to do so to 
the best of our ability.
    We believe in sharing information, de-conflicting cases, 
using a whole-of-Government approach to bring the full bear of 
Federal law enforcement in cooperation with State and local to 
get the best impact and find all the facts.
    Senator Gillibrand. What else can Congress and the U.S. 
Government do to verify legitimate veterans' charity 
organizations against fraudulent loans? What role should the 
Federal Government play to ensure that the credibility of a 
veteran's charity organization is maintained, and that 
individuals who want to contribute or to volunteer at these 
organizations can do so with full confidence that they are not 
being scammed?
    Mr. Harris. I am aware of the Department of Veterans 
Affairs' list they maintain to determine what is a good 
charitable organization that can support veterans. I do not 
know how they adjudicate that list, but I welcome support being 
given to them as subject-matter experts in the arena to make 
sure that anyone who is interacting with a veteran is not doing 
so with a nefarious purpose.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you.
    Mr. Wells, thank you for coming to share your important 
story about how to identify and prevent these scams before they 
happen.
    Does the Federal Government need to step up and do more to 
provide resources to organizations like Vet2Vet to carry out 
fraud prevention activities designed to protect older 
Americans?
    Mr. Wells. Absolutely. Vet2Vet in its current form has just 
gotten a 503 status. It is fun by one full-time and one part-
time staffer, and then they manage and organize 60 volunteers 
and they have 100 interactions. That is a drop in the bucket 
for how many veterans that are in just the State of Maine and 
as we talked about in other States. I think that Federal, 
State, anybody who has the funding, the ability, the resources 
could make that more robust.
    Senator Gillibrand. I was very moved by Mr. Foreman's 
story.
    Mr. Richardson, what are the experiences of victims after a 
scam, and what options do they have for justice? Could a victim 
be able to get their money back? Who can they turn to for help?
    Mr. Richardson. Well, in every instance, they need to 
report it to law enforcement, but the question of whether or 
not they get their money back, it is a sad conversation to 
have, but in each and every one that I have had, whether it is 
my victim or victims in others cases, the same case throughout 
the State, they knew they were not going to get the money back. 
The harsh reality is that I could not find the words to say 
``It is not going to happen. You will not.'' If they can get 
some sense of justice--and the victims that I have spoken with 
after the case is over, what many of them wanted was to receive 
some of their family's benefits back because, in each and every 
instance, the family lost everything, and they knew they were 
not going to get it back.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Rosen?
    Senator Rosen. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member, 
for always bringing such thoughtful hearings here. I really 
appreciate the work all of you are doing, and I am so sorry 
that you were a victim. I am thankful that you are here to 
illuminate this issue for others.
    I represent the great State of Nevada, and we are home to 
over 220,000 veterans and nearly 20,000 servicemembers. 
According to Nevada's Attorney General's office, the most 
common scams affecting our servicemembers, the people we are 
speaking about, this fraudulent mortgage relief forms, high 
interest military loan scams, and identity theft.
    In fact, it is such a problem, Nevada is one of the top 
three States in the Nation per capita of reported identity 
theft.
    Veterans in my State who experience scams or fraud, thy can 
turn to our Attorney General's Office of Military Legal 
Assistance, which provide them free legal assistance and 
representation, and the OMLA, as it is referred to, is doing 
excellent work to try to protect our veterans who have 
sacrificed, like you all, to protect us.
    In my State, we also have the Nevada Senior Medicare Patrol 
program. It routinely has a presence as community events and 
health fairs, geared toward veterans. For example, we have just 
had our third annual veterans extravaganza in Pahrump, and 
these happen all over the country. They are filled with all 
kinds of information for veterans. The hardworking volunteers 
for SMP, they try to educate and empower older veterans about 
Medicare, Medicaid, fraud, best practices, so on and so forth.
    Mr. Wells, would you please talk about the training that 
your volunteers at the Vet2Vet in Maine get in order to help 
them identify and target these scams, so when they are out at 
the community events that happen all across the Country, they 
are more able to discuss this?
    Mr. Wells. Yes. Part of what we are given training on was 
just how to identify personal information, PII, and just the 
general sort of rules of do not give out your Social Security 
number. Be wary about anybody that is asking you to open 
checking accounts or give checks for services or credit card 
numbers and so forth.
    We were also giving awareness of the legitimate programs 
that do exist that can provide benefits and how to identify 
what those programs are and what the need is, and I think that 
is a really important part, that if somebody knows that there 
is an organization that can fill your need and can direct you 
toward them, it is an established vetted organization, it has 
been around, that is going to curb a lot of the, at least in my 
case, looking for other organizations or potentially fraudulent 
organizations.
    Senator Rosen. I think that your organization does a great 
job, and I hope that we could find a way to package your 
training and export that to communities across the country, who 
could really benefit from this.
    One of the other questions that I really have also in the 
training is how do--when senior centers, when churches or 
synagogues or just community centers have these events for 
veterans or for seniors, how do they know--how can we help them 
best vet as organizers, people who are coming and showing up 
and paying for a booth at one of these veterans fairs or 
seniors fairs that, again, happen all across the country? Does 
anyone have an idea about that? Best practice perhaps?
    Mr. Wells. Yes. I can help a little bit with that. I would 
say having a centralized data base. I know that there is work 
that is done at the VA currently.
    In our VA in Maine, in Togus, if you were to contact the 
OIF/OEF coordinators, there is a social worker that is on staff 
that periodically updates her list and the brochure list of 
active organizations that she has had contact with, that she 
knows about, that she has made referrals to, and can say as a 
matter of fact that this veteran organization, charitable 
organization does the work, does good work or bad work, and can 
give you some insight on that. That is just a single office and 
a single entity.
    Senator Rosen. I wonder if we need something like the 
Better Business Bureau, one of those things, that these are the 
certified places, if you are going to plan to have an event, 
like I said, at your church or community center or senior 
center, these are the ones that get the stamp of approval, and 
maybe there is a central way that we could check across the 
country to avoid people being targeted right in their home 
area.
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. I think you bring up a 
very good point. If you go to a fair of veterans services and 
see a booth there, you are going to assume that someone 
screened it, that it is legitimate, and with all the sound-
alike charities and all the needs out there and the generosity 
that people feel toward the veterans population and veterans 
toward one another, it is very easy to see how these scams 
succeed. I think your point is a good one.
    DA Richardson, I want to ask you my final question of this 
hearing. First of all, you deserve great praise and credit for 
putting the notorious con artist Tammi Palasini behind bars. 
That was a great win. I know you had to deal with California as 
well, and it was a complex case. I am grateful to you and your 
office manager for not giving up and for the critical role that 
you played in tracking her down and bring her to justice.
    It is discouraging to know that none of the victims have 
been repaid any significant restitution, and many of them lost 
their family's entire life savings to this total unscrupulous 
individual.
    I am also concerned to learn that it could be that Ms. 
Palasini will be released as early as June of next year, having 
served only a fraction of the 20 years that she was sentenced 
both with the State and Federal charges against her, which run 
concurrently.
    That makes me wonder whether we need to look at then 
punishments and penalties for this kind of fraud. Do you have 
any advice for us?
    Mr. Richardson. I would, and I do. Thank you, Chairman 
Collins.
    In this Palasini case, if you look at it, yes, she was 
sentenced to 20 years to serve on three different counties in 
Mississippi, one county 10 years, one county 7 years, my county 
3 years, all to run consecutive. I wanted to make sure when she 
was convicted that our sentence was the last one, that our 
sentence ran after the rest of them, because we noticed the 
magnitude of the crimes that she committed against our elderly 
and our veterans.
    The harsh reality is that in Mississippi for a nonviolent 
offense, you are only required to serve 25 percent of your 
time, and you can also receive other trustee status to get time 
knocked off.
    For our victims, that is what they are angriest about. I 
have talked to the Tolands lately, last week. I have talked to 
the Wards. They cannot imagine how is it that she is getting 
paroled after what she has done, and she has not paid us a 
cent.
    In the case in Wayne County, there was a Baptist minister 
who had practiced for 25 years, Brother Wright. In working on 
our Ward's case, we noticed through Facebook, and we found 
communications about the Wright family, and their Facebook page 
Brother Bobby Wright, be his voice. In that case, Palasini also 
took not only his but his brother-in-law's entire life savings.
    In that instance, that is the only case that I have seen 
that she has paid any restitution, and that is because she paid 
an initial sum of $20,000 when she pled guilty and was ordered 
ultimately to pay $229,000 in total, so she still owed a debt 
of $209,000. That, they will never see.
    He is currently in a nursing home, suffering from 
Alzheimer's, and what can be done and what should be done is 
that in Mississippi and on the Federal level, I do not know if 
it is the case, but there is enhanced punishments for crimes 
against the elderly, but that is only on violent offenses. What 
I would recommend and what I would support is that if there is 
some type of enhancement to crimes when you are dealing with 
elderly victims in call cases or you are dealing with veterans 
in all cases--and maybe there is some type of mandatory 
sentencing when you are looking at the financial burden that is 
imposed on those victims, and maybe there is a graduated scale, 
because in this instance, over $2.5 million was totally ordered 
in restitution. I can assure you that there is still victims 
out there.
    If we put out a public service notice and ask for anyone to 
call us about any crimes by Gina Palasini, we would find other 
victims.
    If there was something to ensure that she is held 
accountable or scammers like her are held accountable and not 
only receive the same penalty as the average person that 
committed a nonviolent offense, but it is a different problem 
when you are scamming and you are taking away the life savings 
of our veterans and our elderly, and so something to hold them 
accountable.
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you so much for that recommendation. 
She clearly is a criminal without any conscience at all, and 
essentially, in some cases, seemed to be running a pyramid 
scheme.
    What is so tragic about this is when the victims are 
elderly, there is no way for them to recoup that money. They 
need that money at a very vulnerable time in their lives, such 
as the gentleman that you mentioned with Alzheimer's who is in 
a nursing home, so you have long-term care costs, and it just 
seems to wrong that there is not some sort of consideration or 
enhanced penalty when the victims are not receiving 
restitution. They are older Americans, and they have served 
their Country. It seems that there should be some sort of 
additional penalty that the judge would at least have the 
discretion to impose.
    Yes.
    Mr. Richardson. What is most disheartening in this case is 
that Palasini--and as I looked at her status in the Bureau of 
Prisons, her release date has been moved up a month. Now she 
has a tentative release date of May 15, 2020.
    What is most disheartening is we spent just as much, if not 
more time, tracking her down and having her brought back to 
Mississippi and being brought back to justice as she would have 
probably served in custody. That is not fair to our victims.
    The Chairman. I totally agree with you, and that is a very 
good summary of what is wrong. Thank you.
    Senator Casey?
    Senator Casey. I just want to put something on the record, 
as we conclude. We made reference to the letter that we are 
sending to the VA addressed to Hon. Robert Wilke, who is the 
Secretary of the Veterans Administration. I wanted to put in on 
the record because it is not something we are doing as a 
routine matter.
    Here is the progression of facts and information. AARP--I 
think I erroneously said before was the GAO--AARP said nearly 
``80 percent of veterans have reported being targeted by a scam 
that is related to their veteran's status.'' That is point 
number one. Point number two, GAO in this recent report, just 
in October of this year, made a number of findings, but here is 
the basis. Here is the crux of the findings. The GAO says the 
VA receives reports of potential fraud and exploitation, but--
and here is the problem--the agency does not centrally collect 
or analyze the information to, number one, assess the 
prevalence of the scams, number two, inform outreach efforts, 
or number three, help law enforcement pursue scammers. GAO 
sends the findings to the VA. The VA's response in part was 
recommending that an alternative approach be pursued that would 
be a referral process to the Federal Trade Commission.
    The reason why virtually every member of the Committee 
signed our letter to the VA is because we all concluded not 
good enough, VA. We do not just criticize them on a regular 
basis, but when the VA responds to a GAO report like that and 
suggests some other agency should be taking responsibility or 
the full measure of responsibility for it, we had to send this. 
We had no choice. We had to send this letter.
    Just for the record, here is what we are asking the VA in 
this letter, not tough questions, but important ones, basically 
five questions. I will summarize them quickly. number one, has 
the VA examined the extent to which America's veterans have 
been victimized by this type of scam? Number two, how is the VA 
working with Federal and State agencies and stakeholder groups 
to protect veterans from financial frauds? Number three, what 
has the VA done to educate veterans? Very important that they 
do that. Number four, how will the VA's proposed approach in 
response to GAO's recommendation provide the agency with the 
ability to assess the prevalence of scams targeting veterans 
and inform outreach and education efforts? I think a very 
reasonable question for the VA. Number five, and finally, what 
plans does the VA have in place to increase these efforts? What 
further legislative or regulatory authority does the VA need to 
do so?
    I think very reasonable questions. Now, if the VA comes 
back to us and says, ``You the Congress need to give us more 
authority,'' then we should work on that. If they say, ``You 
the Congress need to give us more appropriations,'' we will 
work on that. The response to say this is a job for the Federal 
Trade Commission or some other agency just is not good enough, 
so that is why they are getting a letter, and we do not always 
agree on everything around here, but we agree on this.
    Madam Chair, thanks for the time for that.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much. You know that I totally 
agree with you that the VA could do more in this area, just 
because they are a central point of contact for so many 
veterans.
    I know I said I had asked my last question, but, Mr. 
Harris, just a very quick one for you. This excellent brochure 
that the Postal Service Inspection Service has collaborated 
with AARP on, in addition to being in post office lobbies, is 
it also at VA clinics and hospitals and CBOCs, community 
veterans centers?
    Mr. Harris. Thank you for that question, Chairman Collins. 
We have been in consultation with the Department of Veterans 
Affairs in seeking to get distribution through their network. 
To date, we have not.
    The Chairman. Well, that is something that I can assure you 
we will followup on because a lot of veterans have contact with 
the VA and with community-based clinics. This would be a great 
publication for them to pick up, so thank you for your good 
work.
    I want to thank all of our witnesses for their 
contributions to our hearing today.
    As we have heard, America's veterans are now confronting a 
newer enemy, and that is relentless criminals. I am not going 
to call them scammers or con artists. Let us call them what 
they are. They are criminals who are seeking to steal the life 
savings from our veterans, from those who have done their part 
and served our Country, and to profit from their personal 
information as well.
    Sometimes these criminals seek to perpetuate the same scams 
that we have examined many times, but even more insidious, 
oftentimes these criminals are targeting our veterans with the 
kinds of schemes that we have heard described today. We have 
learned that there are many ways to fight these schemes that 
are targeting our veterans. Operation Protect Veterans seeks to 
prevent scams through education. Vet2Vet in Maine uses 
comradery between veterans as a way to fight back. Veterans 
like Mr. Foreman, who are also on the lookout for their fellow 
veterans, and Inspector Harris as well also play an important 
role. Of course, there is no substitute for the kind of 
persistence that DA Richardson and his staff demonstrated in 
tracking down and prosecuting these criminals.
    Like Senator Casey, I want the VA to step up its game as 
well and assist us in protecting our veterans.
    I am very appreciative of your all being here today. 
Committee members will have until Friday November 15th to 
submit questions for the record, and I would turn to Senator 
Casey for any final comments.
    Senator Casey. Chairman Collins, thank you for holding this 
very, very important hearing today. In my second line of my 
closing remarks, I crossed out ``scammers and con artists'' and 
put ``criminals.'' I am going to read it as she suggested. The 
criminals, because that is the right word, the criminals who 
steal from our veterans are the worst kind. As I said in an 
earlier interview, the scum of the earth. I do not know what 
more I can say. There are just so many ways to describe how bad 
they are.
    After a commitment to serve our Country and defend our 
freedom, veterans should not have to fear answering the phone 
or being confronted by perpetrators of fraud. No one should, 
veteran or not.
    As I said to LaVerne earlier, I am not a veteran, but I 
would have sent the $20, then the $25 and $35. I think a lot of 
people would.
    This Committee has consistently worked to combat frauds and 
scams and will continue to do so, but I am pleased that we held 
this hearing today ahead of the Veterans Day holiday coming up 
next week.
    The criminals perpetrating these schemes will undoubtedly 
double down in the coming days, which means those of us trying 
to prevent them from being successful must also double down, 
and I hope the VA will do that as well.
    I want to thank the Chairman again for her willingness to 
have this hearing, and thank you to each and every one of our 
witnesses for being here today, and of course, thank you to our 
veterans for what they have contributed to our Country. We will 
say Happy Veterans Day early. Thanks very much.
    The Chairman. As the daughter of a World War II veteran who 
was wounded twice in the Battle of the Bulge, this is an issue 
that matters greatly to me as well, and I am sure we will 
continue our efforts to combat it, as I know our witnesses 
will.
    Thank you all for being here. This hearing is now 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:23 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]



      
 
      
      
      
      
      
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                                APPENDIX

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                      Prepared Witness Statements

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