[Senate Hearing 116-530]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                     S. Hrg. 116-530

                         FIGHTING ELDER FRAUD:
                     PROGRESS MADE, WORK TO BE DONE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                     ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS


                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             WASHINGTON, DC

                               __________

                            JANUARY 16, 2019

                               __________

                            Serial No. 116-1

         Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                               __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                   SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Chairman

TIM SCOTT, South Carolina            ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania
RICHARD BURR, North Carolina         KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York
MARTHA McSALLY, Arizona              RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
MARCO RUBIO, Florida                 ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts
JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri                DOUG JONES, Alabama
MIKE BRAUN, Indiana                  KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona
RICK SCOTT, Florida                  JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
                              ----------                              
            Sarah Khasawinah, Majority Acting Staff Director
                 Kathryn Mevis, Minority Staff Director
                        
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

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                                                                   Page

Opening Statement of Senator Susan M. Collins, Chairman..........     1
Opening Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Ranking Member     3

                         SPECIAL GUEST SPEAKER

Statement of Senator Jerry Moran, Chairman of the Committee on 
  Commerce, Science, and Technology, Subcommittee on 
  Manufacturing, Trade, and Consumer Protection..................     5

                           PANEL OF WITNESSES

Erika Flavin, Daughter of Couple Scammed by Grandparents Scam, 
  Willow Grove, Pennsylvania.....................................     6
Candice Simeoni, President and Founder of the York County Elder 
  Abuse Task Force, and Law Enforcement Officer at Kennebunk 
  Police Department, Kennebunk, Maine............................     7
The Honorable Derek Schmidt, Attorney General, State of Kansas, 
  Topeka, Kansas.................................................    10
Judith Kozlowski, JD, Elder Justice Consultant and Subject Matter 
  Expert, Washington, D.C........................................    12

                                APPENDIX
                      Prepared Witness Statements

Erika Flavin, Daughter of Couple Scammed by Grandparents Scam, 
  Willow Grove, Pennsylvania.....................................    39
Candice Simeoni, President and Founder of the York County Elder 
  Abuse Task Force, and Law Enforcement Officer at the Kennebunk 
  Police Department, Kennebunk, Maine............................    41
The Honorable Derek Schmidt, Attorney General, State of Kansas, 
  Topeka, Kansas.................................................    45
Judith Kozlowski, JD, Elder Justice Consultant and Subject Matter 
  Expert, Washington, D.C........................................    49

                        Questions for the Record

Candice Simeoni, President and Founder of the York County Elder 
  Abuse Task Force, and Law Enforcement Officer at the Kennebunk 
  Police Department, Kennebunk, Maine............................    55
The Honorable Derek Schmidt, Attorney General, State of Kansas, 
  Topeka, Kansas.................................................    59
Judith Kozlowski, JD, Elder Justice Consultant and Subject Matter 
  Expert, Washington, D.C........................................    61

                       Statements for the Record

Testimony of Thomas M. Flavin, Jr. and wife Elfriede Flavin, 
  Effects of a Grandparents Scam.................................    65
The Honorable Derek Schmidt, Attorney General, State of Kansas, 
  Topeka, Kansas, Appendix A-C...................................    67

 
                         FIGHTING ELDER FRAUD:
                     PROGRESS MADE, WORK TO BE DONE

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 16, 2019

                                       U.S. Senate,
                                Special Committee on Aging,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:34 a.m., in 
Room 562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Susan M. Collins 
(Chairman of the Committee) presiding.
    Present: Senators Collins, McSally, Rubio, Hawley, Braun, 
Rick Scott, Casey, Blumenthal, Jones, Sinema, and Rosen.
    Also present: Senator Moran.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                   SUSAN M. COLLINS, CHAIRMAN

    The Chairman. The Committee will come to order.
    Good morning. It is my pleasure to welcome back both new 
and returning members to the Committee. I am delighted that my 
friend and colleague Senator Casey will once again be serving 
as the Committee's Ranking Member, and I am thrilled that we 
have many new members joining the Committee this year, and we 
welcome them also.
    This Congress, this Committee will continue to focus on key 
issues affecting American seniors: first, the high cost of 
prescription drugs; second, retirement security--making sure 
that our seniors have the financial resources that they need 
for their retirement and that they do not outlive their 
savings; third, greater investment in biomedical research for 
diseases like Alzheimer's and diabetes that disproportionately 
affect older Americans; and, fourth, stopping financial schemes 
and other scams targeting older Americans. In today's hearing, 
we will look at the progress being made to coordinate and 
strengthen the fight against these scams and explore what 
further steps could be taken to protect our Nation's seniors.
    Combating this type of fraud has long been a focus of this 
Committee. In fact, this is the 22nd hearing that the Aging 
Committee has held during the past six years to examine scams 
affecting older Americans. Previously, we have highlighted the 
notorious IRS imposter scam, the Jamaican Lottery scheme, 
computer tech support fraud, grandparent scams, elder financial 
exploitation, identity theft, romance scams, and the ``Drug 
Mule'' scam--where seniors are tricked into unwittingly serving 
as drug couriers.
    A number of critical points have emerged from our work. 
First, many scams are perpetrated by criminals operating from 
foreign call centers, beyond the reach of state and local law 
enforcement and thousands of miles from the seniors whom they 
victimize. The criminal networks behind these scams typically 
maintain crews of ``runners'' within the United States to 
launder the money stolen from victims and send it overseas as 
quickly as possible, using wire transfers or gift cards. 
Fighting these scams requires a coordinated response led by the 
Federal Government, in close cooperation with state and local 
law enforcement, the private sector, and stakeholder 
organizations.
    I am pleased to say that law enforcement has stepped up its 
efforts to combat these networks. A good example is the 
takedown of five call centers based in India and the arrests of 
their U.S. based co-conspirators in late 2016. The case against 
these fraudsters culminated last year in the sentencing of 24 
individuals in the U.S. to prison terms, coupled with orders to 
pay hundreds of millions of dollars in restitution to their 
victims. This case illustrates the power of coordination: three 
federal agencies led the investigation, assisted by local law 
enforcement in four states, and more than a dozen U.S. 
Attorneys' Offices around the country. A number of other 
federal and international agencies provided significant 
support.
    Another excellent example of the value of coordination was 
the sweep of elder fraud cases last February--the largest of 
its kind in our Nation's history. This sweep resulted in 
criminal charges against more than 200 defendants who had 
engaged in elder fraud schemes in which victims lost more than 
half a billion dollars. The sweep included cases in more than 
50 districts and involved multiple federal, state, and 
international law enforcement agencies.
    We have learned in our prior hearings that combating fraud 
is a lot like playing that frustrating game of ``Whack-a-
Mole.'' Con artists are ruthless in their efforts to devise new 
schemes to defraud their victims. Although the scams we have 
examined differ in scope and structure, one factor is common to 
all: the fraudsters need to gain the trust and active 
cooperation of their victims. Without this, their schemes would 
fail. Oftentimes these criminals harass their victims into 
cooperating with them. Other times they seduce them into 
cooperating with them. That is why it is so important that 
seniors and the public at large recognize as quickly as 
possible the red flags that signal potential fraud. Coordinated 
efforts to educate the public to the scammers' tactics are 
therefore critical, and that is one of the reasons that we have 
held this series of hearings.
    Another key point that has emerged from our investigations 
is how much the scammers depend upon technologies like Caller 
ID ``spoofing,'' robocalling, wire transfers, and gift cards to 
perpetuate their schemes. This problem is only getting worse. 
Last year, the Federal Trade Commission logged an incredible 
3.8 million complaints about robocalls, and some experts 
estimate that nearly half of all mobile phone calls will be 
fraudulent by the end of this year unless technology is 
deployed to identify and block those calls. This Committee has 
repeatedly stressed the need for regulators and the business 
community to work more aggressively to stop scammers from using 
inexpensive technology to facilitate their fraudulent schemes. 
There is a counter technology, and I find the lack of progress 
in deploying this protective technology to be very troubling. 
This year we are going to redouble our efforts to ensure that 
this persistent problem is solved.
    Today we also are releasing our updated 2019 Fraud Book. As 
we have done for the past several years, this book lists the 
top ten scams perpetrated against seniors that are reported to 
our Committee's Fraud Hotline. The book includes tips for 
recognizing, avoiding, and reporting these common scams. Once 
again, the IRS Impersonation Scam, in which a criminal calls an 
unsuspecting victim pretending to work for the IRS and 
claiming, wrongly, that the victim owes unpaid taxes and 
demanding payment immediately, is the number one most reported 
scam on our list.
    Despite the work of this Committee and of our witnesses, 
far too many seniors are still losing money and, often, their 
retirement savings to con artists. Stopping these scam artists 
requires a coordinated response from all levels of government, 
from advocacy groups, from the private sector, but the fact 
remains that alert citizens are our number one defense. I am 
proud of the Committee's work to help seniors become more aware 
and more informed and to put those heartless, ruthless 
criminals on notice that they will be caught and brought to 
justice.
    I very much appreciate the extraordinary group of witnesses 
that have joined us today, and I am now pleased to turn to our 
Ranking Member, Senator Casey, for his opening statement.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
              ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., RANKING MEMBER

    Senator Chairman. Chairman Collins, thank you very much and 
thanks for having this hearing, and I want to thank our 
witnesses. This is a critically important issue that so many 
Americans talk to their elected representatives about, and it 
is critical that we continue our work on this issue.
    We know that though underreporting causes experts to 
struggle to estimate the total financial impact of scams and 
financial abuse targeting seniors, we do know that it adds up 
to at least $3 billion a year. This number is staggering, and 
that might be an understatement; but the impact a con artist, 
just one con artist, can have on the life and even the 
livelihood of a victim and their family is much, much worse 
than any number.
    As we will hear today, some scammers are able to rip away 
tens of thousands of dollars from our loved ones, robbing them 
of their nest eggs and threatening their retirement security. 
This is why government officials at all levels, and our 
partners in the private sector must do everything we can to 
prevent scams before they happen.
    Each one of us has had the experience of watching a parent 
or a relative age and, with that, the experience of worrying 
about their financial security, and so everyone who can play a 
role in stopping scams must play a role in this effort. 
Thankfully, we have had some good progress.
    For example, in Pennsylvania the Attorney General, Josh 
Shapiro, recently announced a commitment from three major 
retailers to change their policies to protect consumers from 
scams. These retailers will reduce the total net worth of gift 
cards that can be purchased in one visit. This is so important 
because, in growing numbers, con artists are asking for the 
barcode number on gift cards as a form of ``payment.''
    These retailers have also committed to increasing the 
training employees receive on how to spot a scam and how to 
stop it. The collaboration between Pennsylvania's Attorney 
General and these companies is one that we should replicate.
    I am proud today to reintroduce the Stop Senior Scams Act 
with Senator Moran, who joins us here today, and I am grateful 
to be working with Senator Jerry Moran on that effort. This 
bill will bring together the best minds from the public and the 
private sectors to develop solutions to ensure that seniors do 
not lose one more penny to a scam artist.
    It is a common sense proposal. It has the support of 
organizations like AARP, Consumer Union, the National Retail 
Federation, Money Gram, and many more, and as we will hear 
today from Erika Flavin, the effect of scams on seniors' lives 
is too great for us to not fight back.
    Again, I want to thank Chairman Collins and the members of 
this Committee for being here today and to Chairman Collins, 
once again, for holding this hearing, and we look forward to 
hearing from our witnesses.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Senator Casey.
    We will now turn to our witnesses. First, I will defer to 
the Ranking Member to introduce our witness from the 
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
    Senator Casey. Thank you, Chairman Collins.
    Erika Flavin is our witness from Willow Grove, 
Pennsylvania, in southeastern Pennsylvania. Erika will tell us 
about how her parents lost over $80,000 to a grandparent scam.
    Erika, we want to thank you for bringing this story to us. 
I was saying to you earlier as we were talking that I want you 
to convey our gratitude, not only mine but the gratitude of 
this Committee and well beyond this Committee, to you and your 
family and your parents for making it possible for us to learn 
from what happened. It has got to be very difficult to tell and 
retell this story, but it does help a lot of people when you do 
that, so please thank your parents and your family for that.
    I also want to thank you for traveling here today, as is 
true of our other witnesses, to share this story and your 
willingness to shine a spotlight on harmful scams and the 
positive impact that will have on people's lives and preventing 
other families from going through what your family experienced.
    I also want to recognize your son, Timothy, who joins you 
here today.
    Thank you again for being here. We look forward to your 
testimony.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    I am now going to turn to a special guest for the Committee 
today, my friend and colleague Senator Jerry Moran of Kansas, 
who, as Chairman of the Senate Commerce Subcommittee on 
Consumer Protection, has also done a lot of work to combat 
scams targeting seniors, and I would invite him to introduce 
the witness from the State of Kansas.

           STATEMENT OF SENATOR JERRY MORAN, CHAIRMAN

           OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, SCIENCE, AND

           TECHNOLOGY, SUBCOMMITTEE ON MANUFACTURING,

                 TRADE, AND CONSUMER PROTECTION

    Senator Moran. Madam Chairwoman, thank you very much for 
the opportunity and the invitation to be here to introduce my 
Attorney General, the Attorney General of the State of Kansas. 
Before doing that, I thank you for hosting this hearing 
regarding elder fraud. Fighting elder fraud is a noble cause. I 
was thinking to say what a timely moment it is to have this 
hearing, but as I thought about those words, there is no time 
in which this issue unfortunately is not important, so there is 
no one moment. It is a constant battle that we face.
    I also would like to thank the Ranking Member for his 
leadership, of course, on the Subcommittee, but also for him 
teaming up with me and our office, our team, as we pursue the 
Stop Senior Scams Act. It is designed to make certain that 
retailers, financial institutions, wire transfer companies, and 
others have the resources necessary to train their employees so 
we can stop fraud as it is occurring on their premises, and 
Bob, it has been a pleasure to work with you on this and other 
issues in the U.S. Senate.
    My primary mission of the morning is to welcome and to 
thank the Attorney General of Kansas, Derek Schmidt, who comes 
here not just as the Attorney General--that is an honor in and 
of itself--but comes as an advocate on behalf of Kansas seniors 
and, in fact, American seniors. He is the immediate past 
president of the National Association of Attorneys General, and 
his initiative during his tenure in that position was titled, 
``Protecting America's Seniors: Attorneys General of the United 
States Against Elder Abuse.'' As our Attorney General, he has 
been responsible for significant and important initiatives. He 
combined within his department and created an entity called 
``Fraud and Abuse Litigation Division,'' in which there is a 
focus on elder abuse, and it houses our statutory Abuse, 
Neglect, and Exploitation Unit.
    Derek is a former Senate staffer, was a Senate staffer 
before I was a Senator, where he worked for United States 
Senator Nancy Kassebaum, someone who remains highly regarded 
and revered on this and other issues in Kansas and across the 
country.
    Attorney General, thank you for your service to the people 
of the State of Kansas, and thank you for sharing today your 
knowledge and information and advice and suggestions to the 
U.S. Senate.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Senator Moran.
    I am delighted that from the great State of Maine we will 
hear today from Candice Simeoni. She is the president and 
founder of the York County Elder Abuse Task Force, and she 
works as a law enforcement officer at the Kennebunk Police 
Department in Kennebunk, Maine. In 2018, Officer Simeoni worked 
on an astonishing 77 elder justice cases, including three that 
have been referred to the local district attorney. She has 
really been such a leader in this area in the State of Maine. I 
wish we could clone her and put her in every community in the 
state and in the country, and we thank you for being here 
today.
    Our next and final witness this morning, we will be hearing 
from Judith Kozlowski. She serves as an expert consultant on 
elder justice matters within the Department of Justice, and she 
told me this morning that she last testified on this very issue 
25 years ago, so it shows how dedicated she has been, and it 
also shows that this has been a problem for a very long time, 
and I think it is now getting the attention that it deserves. 
She will provide insight into how the Federal Government 
fosters coordination among federal agencies to better protect 
seniors from scammers.
    I thank you all for joining us, and we will start with Ms. 
Flavin.

             STATEMENT OF ERIKA FLAVIN, DAUGHTER OF

              COUPLE SCAMMED BY GRANDPARENT SCAM,

                   WILLOW GROVE, PENNSYLVANIA

    Ms. Flavin. Good morning. I would first like to thank 
Ranking Member Senator Casey and Madam Chairperson Senator 
Collins for inviting me to speak regarding the recent scam that 
was perpetrated on my parents.
    Over the course of their lifetime, my parents have held a 
variety of jobs. My father worked several jobs throughout his 
career and was also a member of the Army Reserve. My mother 
worked in a variety of light manufacturing jobs and later 
served as a teacher's aide.
    Unfortunately, last year my parents became victims of the 
grandparent scam. My parents were contacted on the 17th of 
September by a supposed lawyer representing their grandson, my 
nephew, who had allegedly been involved in a car accident in 
Tennessee, was in jail for a DUI, and needed $10,000 cash for 
bail. My parents withdrew $10,000 and mailed the money as 
instructed.
    On the 19th of September, the supposed lawyer told my 
parents that my nephew had been re-arrested on charges of 
vehicular manslaughter due to the loss of a fetus in the 
accident of the car that he allegedly hit. This time his bail 
was now $50,000. They withdrew $40,000 more. This time my 
father had to sign a document that he was not being taken 
advantage of, but the bank asked no further questions. They 
were told to wrap the money in carbon paper so that it would 
look like a book before mailing it.
    On the 21st of September, that lawyer told my parents that 
the charges against my nephew would be reduced and he would be 
able to go free if damages were paid for the balance of what 
insurance did not cover. This amount was $30,544. They again 
mailed the money as they were told and were also told that they 
would receive the bail money back that they had put up, a total 
of $50,000.
    During some of these calls, my parents spoke to someone 
claiming to be my nephew, but who said he sounded different 
because of a broken nose from the alleged car accident he was 
in.
    On the 28th of September, they received one final phone 
call from the phony lawyer asking for another $20,000. The 
phony lawyer said he needed a $20,000 retainer for successfully 
defending my nephew. My parents refused to send any more money 
and decided that my nephew's parents should be the one to 
retain him as an attorney. When they did not get the bail money 
back, they contacted my sister and quickly learned that my 
nephew was where he was supposed to be, in college.
    It was then that my parents knew that they had been 
scammed. My parents contacted local law enforcement to file a 
police report, but assumed they were not getting back any of 
their money.
    Financially, my parents gave away $80,544. This was most of 
my father's Thrift Savings Plan retirement account. This was 
money that was supposed to be used to help with those life 
expenses one incurs as they age. Between their Social Security 
and pension, their living expenses are covered, but there is 
little to no money for any large emergency. My father spoke to 
the banker afterwards, and the banker admitted that he thought 
something was going on, but he was not allowed to say anything.
    I disagree. The banker does not have the right to stop my 
father from taking out his money. Banks can be a first line of 
defense in helping educate seniors about these types of scams.
    The emotional wreckage that this whole thing provoked is 
far worse. My mother is in a constant state of anxiety and 
feels that she is a bad grandmother because she did not 
recognize that the voice was not her grandson's. My father has 
flashbacks to a time when his family had to put up their house 
for bail when his younger brother was arrested.
    My siblings and I were heartbroken that our parents went 
through this all alone since they were originally told that 
they were under a gag order and wanted to respect their 
grandson's wishes not to share this with their mother.
    I also understand that my parents may not have understood 
or recognized potential signs of the scams due to them being so 
devoted to their grandchildren. I would again like to thank my 
parents for giving me permission to tell their story in the 
hope that it can help someone else.
    In the words of my father, ``We are bent. We are not 
broken. We will survive this incident. In a way it feels like a 
sad death in the family. If you are not busy, thoughts creep 
into your head. Why? How could people do this to other people? 
I gave away $80,544. How could I be so stupid? An incident or 
an innocent conversation can set off feelings of sadness 
bordering on depression. You have to fight it and not let it 
get you down. We realize we will never see the money. We still 
have a mortgage, two 10-year-old cars, two cats, and our 
family.''
    Thank you again, Senator Casey and Senator Collins, for 
inviting me here to tell my parents' story.
    The Chairman. Thank you so much for your courage in coming 
forward. That is just heartbreaking, but my hope is that others 
who hear this testimony will be more on guard when they get 
similar calls because of the courage of your parents and you in 
telling your story. We will have additional questions for you 
later.
    I am now going to call upon Officer Simeoni. Before I do, I 
want to recognize that there is another member of the York 
County Task Force who is with us today, Karen Dillon, who works 
at the local hospital, and we talked this morning about how 
health care workers can play a role in identifying fraud or 
exploitation or abuse.
    Officer Simeoni.

            STATEMENT OF CANDICE SIMEONI, PRESIDENT

           AND FOUNDER OF THE YORK COUNTY ELDER ABUSE

           TASK FORCE, AND LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER AT

       THE KENNEBUNK POLICE DEPARTMENT, KENNEBUNK, MAINE

    Ms. Simeoni. Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Casey, and 
Members of the Committee, I am humbled and honored to be here 
before you today. Thank you for the opportunity and for your 
commitment to protecting our older Americans. I am the founder 
and the president of the York County Elder Abuse Task Force. I 
am also a law enforcement officer at the Kennebunk Police 
Department.
    Over my law enforcement career, I have had the opportunity 
to complete extensive training in the field of elder abuse. I 
am proud to have been part of numerous advances in combating 
elder abuse over the past 15 years. I have a true passion for 
being the voice for our vulnerable populations, primarily our 
elderly and those with disabilities. I hear heartbreaking 
stories like Mrs. Flavin's parents all the time, and I respect 
her courage to be here today. In fact, last year I worked on 
over 70 elder justice related cases ranging from simple scams 
to the loss of entire estates.
    I started the York County Elder Abuse Task Force in 2005. 
Once I realized the multidisciplinary approach was so vital to 
protecting our elders, I knew I had to make it happen. My very 
first cases were incredibly difficult. I had so many questions. 
Within my profession, I could not find those answers, so I 
started visiting others who I thought could help me with the 
victims in my cases. The majority did not understand what elder 
abuse even was. It was a goal of mine to educate not only 
myself but as many others as possible. In doing so, I built 
credibility, sparked some passion in others, and developed an 
incredibly solid task force with a group of professionals that 
I can count on when I need help. I realized that the initial 
goal for these cases should not be about prosecution. Instead, 
it should be about preventing further victimization as much as 
possible and then work to develop a case.
    The York County Elder Abuse Task Force is a group of 
committed professionals from many different fields. We come 
together to share our knowledge and skills, to serve as a 
resource to educate the public. We rely on each other to remedy 
our cases as effectively as we can and count on our skills to 
be an asset to victims and witnesses alike. The county of York 
is our primary focus, but making an impact nationally is our 
goal.
    The most important goal for the task force is education. We 
vow to educate ourselves as much as possible so that we can be 
an asset to others. The group conducts mobile awareness 
discussions and presentations throughout our county and in our 
entire state. We coordinate ``Senior Safety Road Shows'' where 
we give 30-minute talks on current scams in their particular 
areas. We encourage local law enforcement and town/general 
assistance representatives to attend with us as we meet 
residents of their community.
    In addition, I instruct the elder abuse segment at the 
Maine Criminal Justice Academy for all cadets that become law 
enforcement officers in the State of Maine. We host a very 
successful conference focused on the importance of the 
multidisciplinary approach to elder abuse. I started this event 
11 years ago. This to us is an example of building credibility 
and exemplifying the multidisciplinary mind set. At this year's 
conference, we were pleased to be joined by the newly appointed 
Elder Justice Coordinator at the U.S. Department of Justice. We 
distributed copies of this Committee's Fraud Book to more than 
100 attendees.
    I recognized the need for a specialized focus on our elder 
population the very first year I became a law enforcement 
officer. While dealing with a personal case involving my own 
grandfather, I also recognized the vulnerability of the 
community that I worked in. The York County coastline is 
inundated with retirees and many elders living alone. As a 
matter of fact, according to the 2017 U.S. Census data, the 
State of Maine is the oldest state in our Nation still. The 
population of Maine over the age of 65 is nearly 20 percent. In 
Kennebunk, that same population is over 35 percent. With this 
knowledge, it is our duty to act.
    Traditionally, law enforcement has dealt with crime 
committed by and against the younger population. This 
population shift and the increase in crime targeted 
specifically against older Americans requires the development 
of specialized services to address elderly victims of crime.
    Fraud through the mail is fascinating to me--and not in a 
good way. One piece to the multidisciplinary approach for me 
has been my work with the U.S. Postal Investigators. I have 
learned a great deal from them. Seeing international scammers 
make our domestic elders unknowing vessels of fraud is 
heartbreaking. Innocent U.S. elders losing everything and 
taking other unsuspected victims along is devastating.
    The investigations are time-consuming, the resources are 
limited, and the law protecting this population from crime is 
not simple to prove. We need to move forward now with 
protecting our elders. The State of Maine would be an 
incredible place to start these greater initiatives. Together 
we could pave the way to be an example for other states to 
follow. I encourage this Committee to consider two strategies 
that would help professionals like me help our elders.
    One, I believe the statute needs to be modified or changed 
to protect victims even when they do not believe that they are 
victims. With reactive elder abuse, there is little hope for 
recovery because of the devastating effects of these 
situations. Those of us on the front line need to be more 
proactive to inform our elders, but we also need help lifting 
the limitations of the current law when we do have to react. 
Many of the cases that I see stall at the victims themselves. 
They do not want to recognize that they are, in fact, a victim. 
They cannot comprehend why someone would manipulate them or 
prey on their innocence. Their abuser is often considered 
charismatic and comforting, something that some elders have not 
felt in a very long time. Second, I encourage the development 
of specialized law enforcement positions in each state. Elder 
exploitation investigation teams, much like the Drug 
Enforcement Agency units with the ability to arrest, see cases 
from start to finish, they need to work with multiple 
organizations and send solid messages to all of our residents 
about the seriousness of our efforts while directing messages 
directly to those who are targeting our elders.
    I am so grateful to be among all of you today, and I truly 
hope you understand the hope that you not only give to me but 
to our older Americans. Chairman Collins and Ranking Member 
Casey have been so instrumental in recognizing the importance 
of this and tackling this catastrophe. Chairman Collins has 
been noted in many of my annual conferences that my task force 
holds and even contributed a wonderful keynote video in 2017. 
She gives me hope, and this Committee gives me hope.
    Thank you all for your hard work in publishing the Fraud 
Books. They are available at our conferences every year. It is 
time to bring knowledge and new initiatives to the forefront, 
to send messages that this epidemic is hidden no longer.
    I have been working really hard in my state for many years, 
and I am at a point where I need help on the federal level. I 
hope that we can work together toward fighting this ``touchy 
subject,'' this ``hidden epidemic,'' so that the statistics do 
not increase the way that they are predicted to do.
    Again, I thank you and I look forward to answering any 
questions that you may have.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much not only for your 
testimony but for your passion for this cause and your 
leadership.
    Attorney General Schmidt.

           STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE DEREK SCHMIDT,

       ATTORNEY GENERAL, STATE OF KANSAS, TOPEKA, KANSAS

    Mr. Schmidt. Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Casey, thank 
you very much. I appreciate the opportunity to be here today. 
You have my written testimony, and if it is agreeable, I will 
let it speak for itself and perhaps just talk with the 
Committee about some of the highlights in my oral presentation.
    A couple of points. This is a subject matter for me 
personally that, through no strength of my own, became an 
interest of mine early in my law enforcement career. I was an 
Assistant Attorney General 20 years ago now. I was assigned to 
the Consumer Protection Division, something I had, candidly, 
never thought about doing when I first took the job, and 
because of that was exposed to a variety of scams and rip-offs 
particularly of elder Kansans, and it is the sort of thing that 
makes your blood boil once you see it and inspires you to try 
to do more, so it is an area we have tried to focus on 
throughout my career at the Kansas AG's office and the 
international association, as Senator Moran mentioned, this 
past year.
    I usually tell folks that when you cut through all the 
numbers and the analysis from the smart folks, for me there are 
three factors that have converged that make this a timely topic 
that will remain timely throughout all of our public service.
    The first factor is simply the number of Americans over the 
age of 65. Whatever the current accurate numbers are, I know I 
have looked at data sets that show that between 1900 and 2010--
so a century and a decade--the number of Americans in that age 
group grew from around five million to around 40 million. I 
think we are around 50 million today if I am not mistaken. That 
is also a larger percentage of the population, not merely a 
larger number. We went from about three percent to about 12 
percent, and we have somewhere in the range of 10,000 Americans 
a day turning age 65, and that is going to remain true for at 
least the next decade, for the foreseeable future, so the 
``target population,'' for lack of a better term, is growing 
and is going to continue to grow.
    The second factor is perhaps a softer factor, but I think 
it is real. It certainly is in my experience. Because of the 
generation we are talking about, there are certain generational 
characteristics that tend to create vulnerabilities. Some are--
you know, some are my mom. She will not hang up the phone 
without explaining to somebody why she is going to hang up the 
phone. She feels a need to be polite, and that is not unique to 
her. It is a reality. Some is loneliness. That was mentioned, I 
believe, by you, Chairman, in your opening, and that is 
certainly true. We see those cases time and time again where 
somebody falls victim because they know something is amiss but 
at least somebody is talking to them on the phone or somebody 
is engaging them in conversation, and they will take the 
financial risk in order to have somebody who will actually talk 
with them, and to some extent, of course, it is physiological. 
There are certain changes that often are associated with aging 
that can make somebody more vulnerable to scams, so that is the 
second factor: greater number of people with a greater 
vulnerability.
    The third factor is one we do not talk about as much, which 
is simply the money. The median household wealth of an American 
family with at least one member age 65 and older today is 
somewhere in the range of $240,000. That is the most wealthy, 
on average, demographic age-wise in the United States; and at 
risk of overstating the case, because we are in the richest 
country in the history of the world, it is probably the most 
wealth concentrated in any age-based demographic in the history 
of the world, so you have more targets, perceived and in 
reality, more vulnerable with more money than ever before. It 
should not be surprising that the problem is exploding and is 
going to continue to.
    I'm going to mention just a few particulars that my 
testimony highlights, things I think we could do, concrete 
steps. They are not panaceas, but I think they are worth 
focusing on.
    First is on the robocall side. We are not going to fix this 
problem without the tech companies being our partners. We 
simply are not. The volume is too large. The inability to find 
these folks halfway around the world, calling in with virtually 
free calls over fiber, is too great. We are going to have to 
shut them down in the first instance, or we are not going to 
make material progress.
    We have tried from the Attorney General community side. We 
have an ongoing working group with the tech companies. We are 
not techies; they are not law enforcers. We are trying to at 
least talk the same language so that we can help encourage 
changes that enable them to not only make available but promote 
to their users, particularly their elder users, simple 
technologies that can actually shut this stuff down before the 
phone actually rings.
    Second is education and outreach. I realize it is a soft 
commentary and we all say it, but it is absolutely true. If 
people do not tell the stories, if pride gets in the way and we 
are unable to share, ``This happened to me, to my neighbor, to 
a friend at church, to somebody I work with, to somebody at the 
local nursing home,'' it is so easy to believe it does not 
happen here, and the reality is it is widespread, and I will 
guarantee it has happened to either somebody--for everybody in 
this room, it has either happened to you or to a loved one or 
to someone you have known, and I suspect we all know that. We 
have got to tell the stories, and we have got to educate on 
ways to spot and avoid.
    Third, that federal and state partnership that you 
mentioned, Chairman, is absolutely critical. I offer a 
suggestion in my testimony on a model we have looked at in 
Kansas. I would be glad to share more about that later, if you 
would like, but it is a very simple concept on how we can 
partner with some of the regional offices of some of the 
federal law enforcement agencies to try to improve prosecution 
of cases that, because of thresholds and caseloads, are 
unlikely to receive the attention of the U.S. attorneys' 
offices, not through any fault of the U.S. attorneys, simply 
because of volume and prioritization.
    Fourth, I mentioned a bill. I will not dwell on it here, 
but there is a bill in the House that I testified on last year 
that would alter federal law restriction on the scope of use 
for our Medicaid Fraud Control Units. Essentially, it would 
remove a barrier in federal law to allow us to use those 
existing federal and state assets to go after more patient 
abuse, not just fraud on the taxpayers and the system, but more 
patient abuse, losses to individuals. I think it makes eminent 
sense. It got out of House Energy and Commerce on a voice vote. 
It has bipartisan sponsorship in the House, but I am not aware 
if it has gotten much attention in the Senate yet, and I would 
just bring that to your attention.
    Finally, it is not in my written testimony, but I would 
close by underscoring what Officer Simeoni said. We have also 
concluded that the multidisciplinary team approach is 
absolutely indispensable at the local and state level to being 
able to address this problem in a systematic manner, and 
anything we can do to assist in the development and support of 
those MDTs would be very much welcomed, and I thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today.
    The Chairman. Thank you so much for your excellent 
suggestions.
    Ms. Kozlowski.

            STATEMENT OF JUDITH KOZLOWSKI, JD, ELDER

         JUSTICE CONSULTANT AND SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT,

                        WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Ms. Kozlowski. My great thanks to the Committee for 
allowing me this opportunity to share with you this morning 
some of my experiences and observations in the field of elder 
abuse and financial exploitation. I have worked in this field a 
very long time. I have had lots of different jobs, but always 
focused on trying to think about how we can better approach 
systemically the issue of elder abuse and financial 
exploitation. We have made a lot of progress, particularly in 
the federal area, in this area, but as we know, there is a 
growing problem and a growing demographic.
    Whenever I do this work, though, I always think of my Uncle 
Howard who was a small business man and a World War II veteran. 
He also had Alzheimer's disease, and during that time, he was 
targeted by an investment scam in Southern California, which 
was cleverly targeted at the entire Leisure World where he 
lived. He lost nearly everything. He had pennies on the dollar 
when everything was done, and my aunt was forced to place him 
in a public facility during the last year of his life. She was 
his business partner. She was legally blind, and she took three 
buses each way, each day during his last year to visit him. 
That was not the life they planned for, and that was not the 
life that they deserved. I have met many victims over the 
course of my prosecutorial career who have been in similar 
situations, but because my Uncle Howard was my very favorite, I 
always remember him.
    I started my career in the district attorney's office in 
New York County, and I still carry with me many of the lessons 
I learned there as a prosecutor. I moved to the Securities and 
Exchange Commission where I worked on investment frauds, 
particularly small offerings and penny stock frauds. This was 
my introduction to the devastation suffered by older victims of 
financial fraud and it cemented my prosecutorial commitment to 
these cases. As my career has continued, as a federal 
prosecutor in the Southern District of Florida and here in the 
District of Columbia, also at the Financial Industry Regulatory 
Authority and the CFPB, and as a senior adviser at the 
Administration for Community Living, also as a consultant at 
HHS, and now back again as a consultant with the Department of 
Justice, I have learned so much more about the issues of 
cognition and the social challenges and the work that is 
necessary beyond law enforcement and the complexity of 
supporting older adults, the necessity that we have, as 
everyone here has said, of multidisciplinary action. It is hard 
to age, and it is also hard for us to address those issues 
without including a multidisciplinary approach.
    One of the most effective multidisciplinary changes that 
the Federal Government has made was to create and stand up the 
Elder Justice Coordinating Council. It is a 12 member agency 
group with a working group of staff members from those agencies 
that worked on eight recommendations to help guide and create 
an architecture to build a federal response to elder abuse and 
financial exploitation, and I must tell you, when many of those 
federal agencies first started, they looked around and 
wondered, well, we do not do anything in aging, we do not have 
aging in our title, we could not possibly belong here, and over 
time I cannot tell you how many more committed people we have 
in the field of aging from that very moment. There are many 
agencies that have added components of those agencies to the 
EJCC, and together many great things have occurred in the 
collaboration of members of the committee and other people and 
agencies, nonprofits and private sector have been brought into 
the conversation, but let me highlight just a few things for 
you.
    In working through the EJCC, we were able to produce the 
Interagency Guidance on Privacy and Reporting Financial Abuse 
for Older Adults. We also helped build the Department of 
Justice's Web site with robust financial exploitation 
resources. Resources every member of the Council has 
contributed to building that Web site to be able to make it a 
premier place for information and training across the Nation at 
both the state and local level as well as for federal 
initiatives.
    There have been collaborations now between the Postal 
Inspection Service, the Administration for Community Living, 
and many of its resources, the Department of Justice, and the 
Corporation for National and Community Service.
    I cannot tell you how many federal initiatives about elder 
abuse and financial exploitation have come out of conversations 
and meetings which had people in the room who had simply never 
thought about these issues. With that new understanding, there 
has been a strong federal commitment to addressing the issue of 
elder abuse and financial exploitation. The EJCC has also been 
able to leverage its membership for extraordinary dissemination 
of materials. The Pass It On Campaign from the Federal Trade 
Commission is one, and the Fiduciary Guide to Managing Someone 
Else's Money from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is 
another. It has also been instrumental in discussing what kinds 
of innovation and research grants might be available to be 
given. Training has become part of the work of this particular 
group, and especially cross-disciplinary training. We are no 
longer only training just law enforcement agents. There are 
many professionals in the room who can learn from law 
enforcement, but law enforcement can also learn from them as 
well, including civil legal services. This work is critical. 
When an older adult's life is upended because of financial 
exploitation, their life is devastated. There are many civil 
and legal aspects to the recovery of that person.
    Let me also just briefly talk about the Elder Abuse 
Prosecution and Protection Act that was passed last year. By 
putting together an Elder Justice Coordinator in every federal 
judicial district and requiring FBI training, it has moved the 
field. We do not have the caseload numbers yet, but I can tell 
you, I just know that knowing that there is someone in the U.S. 
attorney's office makes all the difference in the world. The 
FBI's commitment to training has been really extraordinary, 
including victim witness advocates, neuroscientists, and elder 
abuse experts in their training. Requiring community outreach 
in that statute has been really important as we build more 
multidisciplinary work within the field.
    One of the other initiatives I would like to talk about 
that came out of also working together with local groups has 
been something from the International Association of Chiefs of 
Police who just finished putting together roll call videos on 
elder abuse. These videos can be used and downloaded from their 
Web site for all 30,000 members of the IACP. They really focus 
on the issue that the local police officers can be there and 
are critical to this work.
    My cases, as I did them, I could not do them without 
multidisciplinary work; I could not do them without 
cooperation. I will only mention one case to the Committee 
where we had four federal law enforcement agencies, we had 
three local police departments, we executed search warrants in 
four different states. I had cooperation of financial 
institutions. We seized cars and homes. We did search warrants, 
but we could not do that without federal and state and local 
cooperation. It is the way--it is not only the way of the 
future; it is the way of now. It is the way we get these cases 
done, particularly large scams.
    We have mentioned education this morning, and I would like 
to say that I think public awareness is key. Getting the 
information out is really, really important, and we could also 
do more in producing PSAs. There was one done at the Attorney 
General's office in the State of New York this year on the 
grandparent scam. Dr. Ruth Westheimer also was part of that 
because she was, in fact, a victim. She wanted to participate 
to get that message out to others. In that, teenagers talk 
directly to the camera to their grandparents to say, ``Do not 
do it. I love you. Do not send your money. Call me first. 
Please, call me first.''
    I have also learned that in many of the tribal communities, 
that intergenerational approach has been extraordinarily 
successful in this particular field, and I urge that education, 
particularly also financial literacy education and 
multigenerational approaches, be part of what we do.
    Financial services has been key in growing the field. The 
Senior$afe Act, as we mentioned earlier, was part of that. 
NASAA's model rule, adopted now in 19 states, about to be 
adopted, I think, this year in at least five or six more, and 
the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association has a 
working group on senior investors, bringing together on a 
regular basis those members in that field, holds regional 
meetings and produced a magnificent handbook for investors and 
brokers. FINRA rules of the trusted contact and transactional 
hold have changed the world, and I cannot say enough about how 
important it has been for the financial services industry, writ 
large, to be part of this effort, and not only reactive after 
something has happened but preventative. They have every 
interest in keeping those assets in their institutions. We need 
to continue to encourage better training for tellers and for 
supervisors.
    We have mentioned a little bit about technology this 
morning, a whole field we have not even really explored, but 
has all kinds of potential in preventative use against frauds. 
We also have to remember while these tech frauds get lots of 
publicity sometimes, it is really about 20 percent of where 
elder abuse and financial exploitation lie. Most of our seniors 
are victimized by trusted people and by family members. I 
believe we will also need to think about this in future 
initiatives in order to be able to focus on that as well.
    Whenever I do this work, I come back to two things. The 
highest risk factors are social isolation, which goes to 
everything we have talked about today, you know, certainly as 
you said that alert citizens are our number one defense. There 
is no question that that is the case, and cognitive impairment, 
we do not know enough about what happens with an aging brain, 
and we still need to know that as well.
    We are woefully behind in collecting any kind of usable 
data. That is a subject for an entire hearing, in my view, but 
there have been beginnings.
    I am sorry I went way over my time. I apologize to the 
Committee for that, but I thank you very much.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Your testimony was fascinating.
    Ms. Flavin, I want to take off where the witness just 
concluded when she talked about the necessity for cooperation 
from financial institutions. I thought it was heartbreaking 
when you described your father going to the bank, making three 
huge withdrawals that were not consistent with his pattern. The 
first one, no one asked any questions. The second one, he was 
asked to sign a statement, but no one really engaged him and 
asked him, ``What is it going for?'' Or, ``Do you really want 
to do this?'' Those kinds of questions.
    I do want to give you a little good news on that front, and 
that is, a bill that I authored last year with former Senator 
Claire McCaskill became law. It is called ``Senior$afe.'' We 
got the idea from the State of Maine, and what it does is it 
encourages banks, credit unions, and other financial 
institutions to train their employees to ask more questions, 
and it also says that if they report a suspicious transaction 
to the appropriate authorities, they are not violating bank 
privacy laws.
    Do you think that that law would have been helpful in your 
father's case?
    Ms. Flavin. Absolutely. When I was asked to testify and got 
the green light to post that I was going to be here on Facebook 
today, I sent it out to my co-workers. As a compliance 
specialist, that is my job, to look into new rules, 
regulations, and to make sure people are educated.
    I had one person come up to me and say, ``My parents were 
victims of the grandparent scam as well.'' They got $1,500 the 
first time, and they were sending it through an electronic 
money sending agency, and when they were asked for more money, 
they went back to the same place, got the same employee, and 
that employee took it upon themselves to go, ``Are you sure 
that this is what you want to do? This sounds like it might be 
a scam.''
    Having somebody come up to my parents after they had, you 
know, contributed $80,000 to a con artist is disheartening, 
especially when the banker says he could not do that, but he 
suspected something was going on. It is a smaller bank, and 
that may be a resource issue for them, but absolutely, having 
better education especially for smaller banks would have 
absolutely helped them.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Officer Simeoni, you handled an extraordinary number of 
cases last year, more than 75 cases, and you are also very 
active in educating seniors. You also are very well known in 
your community in York County, so I think people perhaps feel 
more comfortable in reporting what is happening, but I want to 
hear from you. Why don't you think that more seniors come 
forward?
    Ms. Simeoni. Sure, so we know that 90 percent of all 
suspects actually are those who the elder loves or considers 
family members, so it is very difficult for an elder to come to 
somebody, a face that they do not really know, and tattle on 
the people who they love the most in this world, so that is 
very difficult for them.
    We also know that, as we get older, we fear the loss of our 
independence, and we know also that cognitive impairment comes 
into play, and so it is a great fear for our elders to come 
forward to say that, ``Maybe I am losing some independence.'' 
They think that maybe they will end up in a nursing home, and 
so that is a fear that we all can get from victims, that they 
did not want to tell because they were afraid someone was going 
to think they were having some cognitive issues.
    The last thing is that victims do not believe that somebody 
could really manipulate them to the point where they would take 
all of their money, so again, it is a generational thing that 
we talked about earlier, that they cannot believe that somebody 
would prey on their vulnerabilities and take advantage of them 
the way that they are doing right now.
    The Chairman. The Attorney General made a point about 
seniors being too polite on the phone, and we see that in Maine 
all the time, so particularly if they are living alone, they 
are lonely or isolated, and someone calls them up and is a 
total con man and tries to take them into their confidence, and 
they are reluctant, they feel it is rude to just hang up the 
phone.
    What we are thinking of is coming up with a card that would 
list things you could say, and one of the worst things to say 
is, ``I am busy right now, but could you call back later?'' 
Believe me, they will, and yet that is a common way to get out 
of a conversation for people.
    Do you have any suggestions to seniors on what they should 
say when they suspect that on the other end of the line is a 
scammer?
    Ms. Simeoni. Sure, so I wish I could talk to every elder 
and let them know that it is OK to hang up and it is OK to 
protect yourselves in the way where you just hang up the phone. 
If it happens to be a grandparent scam or somebody who they 
think they may know, it is OK to hang up and call the number 
that they know will connect them.
    We do have a hard time with that, and we have actually, as 
a task force, we have come up with those, and we give them to 
elders with the File for Life paperwork, when we have 
interactions with them, but we noticed that it is not always a 
charismatic voice on the other line. Actually, I just learned 
that last night in Kennebunk somebody fell victim to a scam 
because they felt harassed. They forwarded almost $5,000 to a 
routing number that they do not even know who it is attached to 
because of the fear of intimidation, so we not only see the 
charismatic, loving voice; we also get that intimidation and 
harassment that just says, you know, ``I will give you some 
money so you will stop.''
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    Senator Casey?
    Senator Casey. Thanks so much.
    I will start with Erika Flavin about the story you told in 
the testimony. At one point in your testimony, you talked 
about, I think I am quoting directly from the testimony, 
``While a banker does not have the right to stop my father from 
taking out his money, I fail to see how a bank representative 
going up to someone'' and talking to them about it, that that 
should not be allowed. We worry that that kind of education or 
that kind of alert is sometimes not possible.
    The legislation Jerry Moran and I are reintroducing has as 
its foundation an advisory committee that would ensure that 
banks and other businesses have both information and tools so 
they can train their employees.
    Do you think if that were in place, do you think it is less 
likely that your family would have had this horrific 
experience? What do you think about that as an idea?
    Ms. Flavin. I think it is an excellent idea. I think a lot 
of it depends on the words that are used. I am sure that if 
somebody had come up to my father in the bank and said, you 
know, ``We are noticing that you are taking out these large 
amounts of money. Can you just sit with me a moment so that I 
can share some information about scams that are targeting 
people in general, not just seniors.'' I think if it had been 
worded like that, my father definitely would have sat down and 
listened. My father is a talker. He loves to talk to people, 
and he would have been very receptive to that type of 
conversation.
    Senator Casey. We are hoping that we can have better 
training. That is one way to engage in preventative activities.
    I was struck as well by the language in your testimony or 
the references in your testimony to the emotion of this. You 
said at one point--I think it is page 3--that, ``Even sadder . 
. . there is nothing to protect them or anyone from these 
`emotional' transactions.''
    Ms. Flavin. Correct.
    Senator Casey. Then you talk about the aftermath when you 
refer on the next page to the emotional wreckage. That is why 
it is so difficult for people to understand how this can 
happen. It is very easy when you are looking in the rearview 
mirror in the light of recollection or in the light of kind of 
Monday morning quarterbacking that somehow people should have 
been aware. Probably the most pernicious part of this, at least 
initially, other than the actual theft, is the playing upon 
emotion, and it is very hard for anyone after the fact to 
recreate that emotional moment, and that is why I have always 
said this can happen to anyone at any age in any circumstance, 
any level of education, because we are all likely to be duped 
if we have an emotional stake in the crime where people are 
using that emotion.
    I hope that you will continue to tell us what you hope we 
would do by way of legislation or policy based upon your own 
family's experience, and we are just--I know it is difficult 
for your parents, your family, to understand this, but little 
by little we hope that burden they have been carrying around 
will be lifted as they begin to help and have already helped 
people around the country.
    With the passage of time and with the prevention--I wish we 
could show them every person who was helped by their courage, 
by their coming forward. It would have been easier for them to 
say, ``It is bad enough that we were ripped off. Let us just 
keep quiet about it and move on.'' So please convey to them our 
thanks.
    I know I am almost out of time, but I will just quickly 
present a question to Attorney General Schmidt. Thank you for 
your testimony and the substantial experience you bring to 
these issues, and I know you have done some work--a lot of work 
on robocalls, and you have been engaged in the fight against 
these robocalls.
    How do you think we can tackle that problem? And do you 
think there is a need to fight this problem more 
internationally, and any suggestions you have for that?
    Mr. Schmidt. Well, Senator Casey, I think maybe just a 
couple of thoughts on that.
    One, the vast, vast majority of these calls originate 
offshore, virtually all of them. As I always tell constituents 
who express distress to me with some frequency, ``I am on the 
no-call list, but I am getting more calls than ever''--I am 
sure you have heard that repeatedly, and it is certainly true. 
I usually tell them, you know, ``You are not going to believe 
this, but the no-call list actually works. It actually prevents 
law-abiding telemarketers from calling you if they are 
disqualified from calling as a general matter, and if they do 
not, we can find them and punish them and stop the behavior.''
    The problem is that the explosion in volume is by crooks 
who are offshore, beyond the reach of state and local law 
enforcement in almost every case, and so we have to--we have no 
choice. We must work and rely upon our federal partners in any 
enforcement action, which is only conceivably possible in the 
minority of cases where somebody can actually find who is doing 
the calling. Senator Collins in her opening referenced the 
enforcement action in South Asia in 2016. That is a prime 
example of success that we are all thrilled with. Of course, as 
soon as those folks were gone, others flooded back into the 
marketplace.
    We will, in my view, never solve this problem on the 
enforcement end. We must continue enforcement, but that will 
not fix it. It has to be prevention, and of course, it is the 
rise in whenever that was, the 1990's or--I am not a historian, 
I am not a techie, but whenever fiber connected us with the 
rest of the world in a way that it had not before, and so it 
became possible to make virtually free VOIP calls or other 
calls, if you have a laptop and access to the Internet from 
anywhere in the world, into every living room in the United 
States, when that became possible, this problem exploded, and 
in my view, it will only be when the technology that enabled it 
is countered by a technological antidote that is simple to use, 
effective, and readily available to consumers that we will have 
meaningful blocking, and that requires the telecom companies 
be--and they are, but that is why, you know, I do not think 
there is a solution here without an ongoing conversation with 
the folks that provide the telecom services.
    Senator Casey. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    I want to explain to our new members that we call on people 
based on first-come/first-served as far as appearance after the 
gavel has fallen, and many of you arrived at the same time, so 
then we go by seniority on the Committee, and applying that 
complicated formula, Senator McSally would be the next 
questioner.
    Senator McSally. Thank you, Madam Chair. I really 
appreciate it, and thanks to all of you for your testimony, and 
Ms. Flavin, thanks for telling your story.
    We all, I think, with our parents or those we know who are 
older, think of our own experiences. I think of my Mom coming 
from, ``You have to answer the phone, you have to talk to 
whoever calls.'' We have now trained her where she does not 
answer the phone. If she does not know the number, she knows to 
hang up, and so, again, we all have our personal experiences 
with that.
    Education is so important and having a team of people 
around you to help prevent. We have got a scam squad in Pima 
County where you have got seniors working with the sheriff's 
department trying to teach each other and help each other and 
encourage that training, and we have seen really strong results 
from that. I held a forum when I was in the House in my 
district to have more education, so education is key. You have 
all talked about it.
    Ms. Simeoni, Maine has a lot of rural areas, just like in 
Arizona. We have so many of our seniors that are out in rural 
or tribal areas and not connected anywhere, so the challenge of 
education and getting to them in these rural areas, can you 
speak to that and any initiatives that could partner with you 
in Arizona?
    Ms. Simeoni. Yes, absolutely. I think about this a lot. 
When we place flyers everywhere saying, ``Come to our senior 
scam road shows,'' or ``Come to our education,'' we get a great 
group, but it is really not the group that we need to reach.
    I really think about this a lot, and I am actually teaming 
up with a local videographer, and even if you are in rural 
wherever, you still have--we call it the ``Local Channel 5.'' 
It is a local channel on your TV that just kind of goes on and 
on and on, and I have noticed as a responder on the front line, 
even going to medical calls, that for some reason is always on 
an elder's TV when I respond, and so for me, I think maybe 
delivering a message through that vessel would be really good, 
because it is not going to be the people who come to my forums 
or the ones that would listen to us about elder abuse. It is 
the ones that we need to indirectly contact, and I think that 
would be a great way, public service announcements, but make 
them human. You know, make them from that area with contact 
numbers from that area. I think that would be a really good 
avenue to explore.
    Senator McSally. Great. Thank you.
    Attorney General Schmidt, Attorney General Brnovich in 
Arizona, they have been doing some great work related to the 
senior scams. Governor Ducey yesterday announced in his state 
that 100,000 people will move to Arizona this year, which is 
great news. I mean, we want more people to come and participate 
and live in our great state. Many of them are seniors. We have 
a growing senior population, 17 percent right now. It will grow 
to 21 percent by 2050.
    As you are seeing and partnering with the Federal 
Government, are you seeing that they are kind of getting out in 
front of the demographic shifts and are going to make sure the 
resources are there for the communities that are growing senior 
communities? And how is that partnership going?
    Mr. Schmidt. Senator, respectfully, I hope that not too 
many of those 100,000 were Kansans before they became 
Arizonans. Obviously, the demographic dynamics are different in 
different states, and to your point, you know, I certainly 
cannot speak from a global perspective. I can tell you our 
experience from a Kansas perspective, and that is that the 
federal agencies have on the whole been receptive and open. 
They have wanted to be helpful. They have done the right things 
when asked--sometimes not expeditiously, but they have done the 
right things when asked.
    At the end of the day, the vast, vast majority of this 
subject matter, to the extent it is dealt with by the law 
enforcement community, must be dealt with by state and local 
authorities, because the nature of the crimes are state and 
local crimes, and the vast--it does not matter how many federal 
resources you put in. Ultimately, there are going to be more 
state and local bodies than there are federal bodies, and that 
is particularly true the more rural you get, because the 
federal agencies tend to be housed in the more populous cities 
in, I think, every state, and certainly in ours.
    The answer to your question is, I think, yes, there is a 
receptivity and an openness and a willingness, but there is 
also an inherent understanding of the limits on the Federal 
Government's role. Where we maybe have some room for growth is 
on building some of those partnerships where it is not just 
that we do more through the Federal Government. It is that the 
Federal Government helps us do more through the state and local 
authorities.
    Senator McSally. Great. A last quick question. You 
mentioned one piece of legislation in the House to remove a 
barrier. Are there any other legislative barriers that you see 
that we could address?
    Mr. Schmidt. Well, I will bet there are, but that is the 
one, that is the only one I will bring to your attention 
because it is the one I am conversant in and focused on. I 
really think it is kind of a no-brainer, but maybe I am wrong 
on that.
    Senator McSally. Ms. Kozlowski, do you know of any other 
federal barriers to improving in this area?
    Ms. Kozlowski. I do not.
    Senator McSally. Great. Thank you. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Rosen, welcome.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you, and I thank Senator Collins and 
Senator Casey and, of course, the panelists for sharing these 
personal and heartbreaking stories. It is really important that 
we bring them to light.
    I met with my Nevada Legal Aid just last week, and, of 
course, in Nevada we have a large senior population that could 
be a target, and we know that fraud against seniors is on the 
rise.
    I left my job to be a caregiver for both my parents and in-
laws. That experience taught me all too well about how 
vulnerable our seniors are. My own father-in-law was contacted 
one day by a big-box retailer to come pick up his purchase for 
$5,000 worth of computer equipment. The fraudster was not so 
smart and realized my father-in-law had a rewards account when 
they tried to use my father's name, so instead they used the 
phone number from the account, and my father went down to this 
big-box store, and was able to cancel the fraudulent charge. We 
determined that the fraudulent charge was probably made by 
someone who skimmed information from my father's doctor's 
office.
    I know we have talked about reaching out, and educating, 
but how do we do this: public service announcements, 
television, digital, mail? But how do we stop the fraud? We 
talk about the banks, the employees noticing things. How do we 
educate people, big-box retailers and our doctors' offices so 
that the employees know that they should be careful when 
handling sensitive personal information, such as the 
information used in my own father-in-law's case to perpetrate 
fraud against his identity?
    Ms. Flavin. If I may, I found that when my father went to 
speak to the banker afterwards and the banker had a lack of 
knowledge about laws that were already on the books that would 
have allowed him to have that conversation with my father. I 
think at the core of it, though, is that we are the village 
that needs to protect the elders, and even if that law was not 
in place, I am kind of shocked that nobody said anything to my 
dad about, ``This just seems kind of off. Let us help you. Is 
there somebody else that we could contact for you to confirm 
that all of this is truly going on?''
    My father was told at the beginning of all of this that 
there was a gag order. His lack of knowledge about how the 
criminal justice system works certainly worked against him.
    Senator Rosen. Do you think it would be helpful to expand 
the reach of people who are able to talk to our seniors from 
banks to our retailers perhaps, especially our doctors' 
offices?
    Ms. Flavin. Absolutely.
    Ms. Simeoni. I believe we need to humanize this a little 
bit more. We talk about education, and education sometimes is 
in forms of lectures, but I think it is more effective when it 
comes in the form of stories, you know, reaching out, touching 
the heart. These are real-life stories, for me real Mainers 
being victims. I think it kind of puts you in part of--we call 
it the ``big puzzle.'' You are a piece of the puzzle now. You 
understand this. You feel it. You have the heart. Now let us do 
something about it.
    I think lectures are good, do not get me wrong, but I think 
humanizing it, you know, telling a story, is really more 
effective, whether it is the UPS worker or law enforcement 
officers.
    Senator Rosen. Right.
    Ms. Kozlowski. I always think about this in terms of who 
touches the life of an older adult.
    Senator Rosen. That is what I am----
    Ms. Kozlowski. I, too, left work to take care of my parents 
when they were in their nineties. My dad just turned 98 on 
Saturday. I always think about that. Who else? Who are we 
missing? Who is not here?
    Senator Rosen. The Postal Service.
    Ms. Kozlowski. The Postal Service is phenomenal, and letter 
carriers report all the time.
    Senator Rosen. All the time.
    Ms. Kozlowski. I cannot sing their praises high enough, but 
who else? I mean, we have got EMTs who are now beginning to be 
trained. We have--doctors' offices are a wonderful venue 
because so much information is available there, so much 
information to be used in a not very good way for older adults.
    Senator Rosen. Right.
    Ms. Kozlowski. Also, it is also a place where older adults 
go.
    Senator Rosen. A lot.
    Ms. Kozlowski. They talk to their doctor. Maybe they do not 
talk to the doctor because the doctor has the golden 
stethoscope, but they might talk to the nurse. You might learn 
something that would be important in that person's life.
    There have also been initiatives in faith communities 
because older adults generally still go to church or some form 
of worship. There has been some training with clergy because it 
is another place that touches the life of an older adult, and I 
think as we look at training and we talk about a larger 
conversation, we always have to keep those ideas in mind. I 
certainly did with my parents and continue to now.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I appreciate that.
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Braun, welcome.
    Senator Braun. Thank you. It is good to be on the 
Committee. Not only this subject, but the cost of health care 
and other things are very important. I heard Senator Casey 
mention, as I stepped back in, about getting bank employees and 
others to kind of be a heads-up.
    I look at the different ways that these scams are so 
unbelievably complex and creative and ingenious, but you really 
do not perpetrate it until the money transfers, and when I look 
at an electronic wire transfer or certified check, that is, you 
know, kind of something that is complicated even when you want 
to do it. When it comes to credit cards and debit cards and so 
forth, it seems like that might be an easier way to, you know, 
consummate the scam.
    What are you finding among banks, number one, especially as 
it would apply to wire transfers, which is you have got to go 
through a protocol that is fairly complicated to do one even 
when I would initiate one myself? And it seems like that is 
where you would get larger amounts. Tell me something, whoever 
would have the information, where are you seeing banks when it 
comes to their helping prevent this at the final stage?
    Ms. Kozlowski. I can address that briefly. There are some 
really robust, ongoing training programs right now. There is 
one that will be rolling out I think this year from AARP called 
``BankSafe'' that will be available to banks to even download 
from the AARP Web site, the BankSafe Web site. That I think 
will help, you know, transform training for tellers and 
supervisors, but when I think about this issue, I always think 
about the supervisors. I think about that with regard to 
securities transactions as well. It is great to train the front 
line, but that supervisor better be involved, too, and have 
some accountability for whatever else happens. I know that 
there is also bank training that has been rolled out by the 
American Bankers Association as well.
    I think that there are--the red flags are also something 
that should be on the desk of everyone who works in a financial 
institution--however we want to formulate them on elder abuse 
and financial exploitation, but as soon as that happens, that 
wire transfer becomes infinitely more difficult to execute.
    Senator Braun. I am thinking more along the lines of an 
algorithm or a mechanical system that would not rely on 
training, you know, where that final moment there is something 
that, you know, sets off a red flag to where you cannot, you 
know, consummate the whole transaction.
    Ms. Kozlowski. I know that there has been some serious 
interest in looking at this. My personal view has always been 
if we can stop credit card transactions, we must be able to 
stop money leaving older adults' accounts. We can do it in any 
number of ways, and I have talked to many people about that. It 
is a big project, to be sure, but I still think there is a 
technological solution to that.
    There is a small company called ``EverSafe'' that has a 
series of alerts which can alert you or family members if there 
is some unusual transaction that has occurred across all kinds 
of financial accounts.
    I think the technology is there. I think we have to figure 
out what would be the best public and private partnerships to 
have for it to go forward, but I certainly believe it is there.
    Senator Braun. One final question. When it comes to credit 
card companies, they have got a more robust fraud detection 
component to their business. Are they catching most of these 
when they do occur through a--is there any type of statistic or 
any information on how much is actually thwarted or prevented?
    Ms. Kozlowski. Not to my knowledge, sir.
    Senator Braun. Okay. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Jones?
    Senator Jones. Thank you, Chairman Collins, and thank you 
for having this hearing, you and Ranking Member Casey, and I 
also want to lend my welcome to all the new members. You know, 
Chairman Collins, looking around, this Aging Committee may have 
the youngest Senators here in terms of seniority.
    You know, we have got a number of former prosecutors that 
are on this Committee, and so I have been especially interested 
in listening to the federal and state partnerships. We have got 
state prosecutors. We have got federal prosecutors, and I think 
all of us have found that that has been a tremendous advantage 
in our respective offices.
    I would like to talk a little bit, and, Officer Simeoni, 
you mentioned a little more help from the Federal Government. 
Attorney General Schmidt, you have mentioned the collaborative 
effort with HHS, and by the way, you and I might want to do 
some comparative DNA based on your conversations about your 
mother and hanging up. We may be long-lost siblings, so I get 
that. I understand and I have witnessed that firsthand, but 
could you initially talk a little bit about your federal and 
state partnership and how you think that can be improved, 
encouraged, what we can do from here? Then maybe, Officer 
Simeoni or Ms. Kozlowski, if you have any suggestions of what 
Congress can do, because those partnerships are incredibly 
informative, and while most of these cases may be state cases 
because of the individual amounts, there is still a lot of 
federal jurisdiction with wire fraud, mail fraud, those kind of 
things.
    I will just let you all take it from there.
    Mr. Schmidt. Senator, thank you, and I would be happy to 
share a little bit on that. I have been in office--I have been 
there eight years now. I had been in office maybe two or three 
years. I was relatively new, and I was approached by a fairly 
young man who was a federal employee, worked with HHS OIG. He 
had recently been transferred at that point into the Kansas 
City regional office. He had been I think in Illinois before, 
and I do not know where he is now. He is no longer in Kansas 
City, and we have lost touch, but he looked me up, and he said, 
``Here is the deal.'' He said, ``When I was in Illinois, we got 
frustrated that we would find''--``we would be out 
investigating whatever it is we investigated at HHS OIG, and we 
would come across these cases of home health care fraud in the 
Medicaid program, usually billing for services just not 
provided, billing for hours that the PCA did not show up, so 
not close calls, but sometimes we would find''--``for big 
losses, no problem, we will get them prosecuted, but sometimes 
it would be a thousand bucks, two thousand bucks, three 
thousand bucks, and we just could not get the attention of the 
U.S. Attorney's Office, not because they did not want to, but 
because they are up to the eyeballs in everything else.''
    He said, ``We have done the work. We have got the case. I 
cannot get anyone to prosecute it.'' In that case, they could 
not get the local DAs to prosecute it because it is the 
Medicaid program, and it just--you know, so they wound up 
partnering, he told me, in Illinois for a sweep, and he 
proposed we do the same in Kansas, and I said yes, so here is 
what we did. My only condition was--I would be thrilled to 
partner with you and do those cases. I do not care how small 
they are; we will do them. My only condition is I want to do 
them in state court under state law. I do not want to have to 
retrain my people. I do not want to have to march into federal 
court for a $1,000 case in state court. It is just easier. We 
are accustomed to it. He said, ``Deal.'' They worked up--we did 
this sweep. HHS OIG out of Kansas City, agents worked up--I 
think it was around a dozen, give or take, home health fraud 
cases. We called it ``Operation No Show.'' The fun part of any 
law enforcement operation is naming it, right? These were all 
people that billed for services they just did not show up to 
provide. They were pretty straightforward. We presented them as 
Medicaid fraud criminal cases under the state Medicaid fraud 
statute, and we prosecuted them all in state court, and we won 
them all but one. One did not go as well, but the rest of them 
went very well, and it was a fantastic partnership. We were 
thrilled because we were able to do more cases. I had 
prosecution capacity. My bottleneck was on the investigation 
side. He was thrilled because his agents who had done work were 
able to finish it off and see it through, and it was the right 
outcome for everybody.
    We have not replicated that since he left on the Medicaid 
fraud side, but it is just--I have thought of that ever since 
and thought that is an ideal model, I think, in other areas, so 
you know, I have mentioned it a time or two. I had this 
discussion with then Attorney General Sessions at the news 
conference you mentioned when we announced the sweep a year or 
two ago. I forget exactly when it was. He seemed intrigued, but 
obviously he is no longer around to follow through. I had the 
discussion with Mr. Cottrell, the Postal Inspector. He is no 
longer around. I had it last week with Mr. Barksdale, I think 
the interim or deputy or acting Postal Inspector. He is 
intrigued. I plan to call him and follow-up. This was a good 
model.
    Senator Jones. It works.
    Mr. Schmidt. It works.
    Senator Jones. Anybody else want to briefly, before--you 
know, what specifically we might in federal court do?
    Ms. Simeoni. Yes, so sure, real quick. When I started my 
career, we played what was called ``Pass the Case.'' We are 
bound by jurisdictions, so municipal officers generally take 
cases in their municipal bounds. If it crosses the federal 
threshold, we would just pass the case. Now we actually work 
together. I work often with the U.S. Postal Investigators, some 
FBI agents, and we work together on these cases, so I have 
already seen a really good change. I think we are moving in the 
right direction. I do not think we have to make huge, drastic 
changes. I think if we focus on the multidisciplinary approach, 
we continue to work together as a team, I think we are going to 
be very, very successful.
    Senator Jones. All right.
    Ms. Kozlowski. I agree, and I would like to underscore what 
Attorney General Schmidt said. I am a big believer in using the 
regional offices of the Federal Government to be enfolded in 
this work. We have regional offices all over the country. 
Oftentimes we only look at the federal office that is located 
in Washington to do these cases. I think there are lots of good 
people that work in those regional offices that bring to these 
cases a regional aspect, and I think that we could incorporate 
them more in this work with the state work and similar kinds.
    Senator Jones. Thank you.
    Madam Chairman, one quick observation, because we have 
talked a lot and I have heard a lot today, too, about outreach 
and community outreach, and the one thing I would encourage, as 
we have discussed, the population is getting older, more people 
are turning age 65 every day, and so that outreach needs to be 
done early for people down the road, whether it is financial 
literacy or being aware. We cannot do a lot about the cognitive 
decline that we see in our elders, but we can at least maybe, 
as those hit age 65, arm them with better information going 
forward.
    Thank you all for being here and for the work you do.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Scott, welcome to the Committee.
    Senator Rick Scott. Thank you. First off, it is great to be 
here. Thank you for the opportunity, and thank you for your 
hard work. I look forward to looking at the bill you proposed.
    Florida is a state with a lot of seniors, and we are 
getting more every year. When Senator McSally was here, I was 
going to remind her that Florida will add about 400,000 people 
this year, and a lot of them are going to be seniors. It is a 
great place to retire and enjoy life.
    First off, Ms. Flavin, my heart goes out to you for what 
happened to your family. Unfortunately, you hear stories like 
that all across the country. We hear a lot in Florida. We have 
been blessed--in my years as governor, I had an attorney 
general that was very focused on this. Attorney General Bondi 
was very aggressive at prosecuting scam artists, and we were 
able to get a lot of legislation passed, and I know she worked 
with you, Attorney General Schmidt.
    All of you, it looks like you have done a great job trying 
to do this. What is the best way to find best practices and 
share them at all different levels, whether it is the federal 
level, the state level, or at the local level, so we can make 
sure we are finding the best ideas and getting them around the 
country, so we can put a stop to this. Everything we can to 
stop this.
    Mr. Schmidt. Senator, I will take a crack at that. I do not 
know if it is the best way, but we have struggled with that 
question on our watch, and I will tell you where we have come 
down.
    One of the challenges on the education, the dissemination 
of information, whatever tool, method, target audience you use, 
one of the challenges is everybody agrees that it is a good 
idea and, therefore, everybody wants to do it, and there is 
nothing wrong with that. I am not trying to discourage it on 
the whole, but sometimes the messages become either conflicting 
or, even if they are harmonious, if you are the victim of one 
of these scams or rip-offs and you are trying to figure out 
what to do, you do not want to sit there and sort through a 
stack of possible people to contact and ask for help. That 
becomes intimidating and distressing in and of itself.
    One of the things we have done in Kansas--and I do not 
claim credit for it--we stole the idea, shamelessly, from 
Arkansas. The former attorney general of Arkansas had started 
it up. They actually paid a market research firm several years 
back, before I was in office, to figure out in Arkansas why 
they were getting fewer requests for assistance at their 
attorney general's Consumer Protection Division than the 
demographics and size of the state would suggest they should be 
receiving, and the answer came back, perhaps not surprisingly, 
because people, when they have been ripped off, do not want to 
sit in their living room and practice law and they are 
intimidated. The AG's Web site is talking about statutes and 
duties and all this stuff. It looks governmental. They do not 
know if it is a securities issue or insurance fraud or general 
consumer fraud. Do I call the local police? Do I call 911? Do I 
call the FBI? Do I call the FTC? What do I do? People would 
just throw their hands up and not ask for help, and so they 
rebranded in Arkansas. I do not know if they are still doing 
this or not. They just rebranded their Consumer Protection 
Division at the AG's office. They called it ``Got Your Back 
Arkansas.'' We stole that from them, but we had enough pride 
not to just say, ``Got Your Back Kansas.'' So we are ``In Your 
Corner Kansas,'' and ours is still going, and it has been 
fantastic. It is a branded Web site. I use it on all of our 
consumer protection and elder abuse outreach efforts around the 
state, whether I am doing it or staff is. We use it in talking 
with other agencies in the state: Come along and be part of the 
In Your Corner Kansas conversation, and the message is simple: 
If you have been ripped off and you are victimized, contact us. 
We are in your corner, Kansas, and we will either help you or 
we will get you to the people who can. Let us practice law or 
navigate the bureaucracy.
    To back that up, to your question, we also have what we 
call now a ``Senior Consumer Protection Advisory Council.'' I 
am about to overhaul it and make it more of a broader Elder 
Justice Advisory Council. We have quarterbacked it at the AG's 
office. We invited in the players, and we are sitting down now 
and saying, all right, we have got this Web site, we have got 
this branding, we have got this one-stop outreach. Everybody 
needs to be on the same page. What do we need on there? What do 
we need to know for your agency, for your private entity? How 
do we get people properly connected? What is the right subject 
matter? What is the right content? And so far it is working I 
think reasonably well, and we have seen our numbers go up in 
requests for assistance, which I think is a good thing.
    Senator Rick Scott. Anybody else?
    Ms. Simeoni. I think when delivering a message, it really 
has to be unique to the area, so what may work in the State of 
Maine may not work in a different state, so I think it just 
needs to be a vessel of people, a multidisciplinary team who 
understands the geographic area of the message that needs to be 
delivered, and that does not only mean elders. It means 
professionals, so what I mean by that is peer lectures or peer 
stories.
    I know for me in the law enforcement community, I am more 
receptive to other law enforcement officers educating me, and 
so also with elders, I know me going to speak to an elder, we 
may not have a lot of similarities, but if I could bring 
somebody along who may be of the same age, they may reach that 
message a little bit better than I could.
    I think it has to be unique, and I think people need to 
really study and have passion for their specific areas and 
deliver the message that they think would be well received in 
that particular area, so I think it is all different.
    Senator Rick Scott. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    Senator Sinema, welcome to the Committee.
    Senator Sinema. Thank you so much, Chairman Collins and 
Ranking Member Casey. It is an honor to be a member of the 
Special Committee on Aging, and Chairman Collins, in 
particular, it is a pleasure to continue doing the work that we 
have been doing together to protect seniors from financial 
fraud. I was proud last year to lead the Senior$afe Act in the 
House, and I am so grateful for your effort to lead that 
bipartisan effort through the Senate. I also want to thank 
Ranking Member Casey for his support of that very important 
law.
    As we have heard today, criminals are relentless in 
targeting vulnerable senior citizens, and that is why the 
Senior$afe Act which we passed last year is so critical. It 
empowers people in financial institutions to report those exact 
suspected instances of elder financial abuse and fraud, and it 
helps law enforcement track down the criminals who target those 
vulnerable seniors.
    The law was modeled after a highly successful effort, of 
course, in Maine, the Senior$afe Program, that innovatively 
brought together the regulators, financial firms, and legal 
organizations, so we did the same in Arizona, bringing together 
IRS experts and advocates to help teach seniors in the greater 
Phoenix community how to recognize and report frauds and scams, 
scams like one that targeted a 91-year-old woman in Tucson. 
This woman had two caregivers that she trusted, but they 
exploited her. They got access to her banking information, and 
they stole her identity. They stole nearly $200,000 from this 
91-year-old woman by obtaining credit cards in her name. They 
gave themselves very large holiday bonuses, and they even 
convinced her to sell her home, and had the employees at her 
bank been trained to recognize the pattern of suspicious 
charges and been able to report that to authorities, we believe 
the criminals probably would not have been able to victimize 
this woman for two years.
    We know that financial crime is a growing crisis in our 
country, and it certainly is a crisis in Arizona, which 
welcomes retirees from across the United States.
    Just in 2018 alone, the Arizona Department of Economic 
Security received over 31,000 reports of potential abuse or 
fraud involving senior citizens. As we know, that represents 
probably only a fraction of the crimes that occurred, and that 
is completely unacceptable, so these are people who have worked 
hard their entire lives, they have raised their families, many 
of them have served our country in the military, and they 
should get to enjoy their golden years with dignity.
    According to the AARP, one in five Arizona seniors are 
victimized by financial fraud every single year, and as we have 
heard today, often the seniors are afraid or perhaps 
embarrassed to report when they have been defrauded. Sometimes 
they may not even be aware or do not want to recognize that 
they have been victimized.
    What I would like to do is start with my first question for 
Ms. Kozlowski. Your testimony mentioned that the financial 
services and tech industries have been strong partners in the 
fight against elder financial exploitation, so building on the 
passage of our law last year, the Senior$afe Act, where are 
there current gaps in prevention, detection, and enforcement 
actions to address financial fraud that are disguised as 
legitimate transactions?
    Ms. Kozlowski. I think there are--having done this work for 
so long, I am always encouraged, surprised, and disappointed at 
the enthusiasm for entrepreneurship of the people who want to 
take other people's money, so I do not know that I could give 
you a particular area because I think what has happened is that 
by bringing together so many people in the--especially the 
broker-dealer community, investment adviser community, I think 
that there has been such heightened awareness in that 
particular sector that I do not think that unusual scams coming 
to a particular account are not going to be noticed.
    If you are a person who has invested in a particular way 
over a long period of time and suddenly you are coming to your 
adviser or your broker and saying, ``No, no, I really want to 
buy those individual airplanes that fly at 50 feet above 
because I am sick and tired of the bad traffic,'' the 
investment adviser is going to say, like, ``No, we are not 
going to be doing that.'' They have new tools. They have a 
trusted contact to say, ``Is there something wrong with Uncle 
Fred? Has something changed? Do we need to address this 
further? Or we can just stop that transaction until we find out 
what on earth is going on.'' That has been huge, absolutely 
huge.
    I think that we also see that just having investment 
advisers be required to meet with their clients once a year is 
also something, and bringing in that trusted contact, not just 
for older Americans and older adults, but for anybody. I always 
use in my discussions the car accident. You know, you are in a 
car--that does not discriminate on age. That could happen to 
anybody at any moment. You should be prepared for that.
    In banking, I think that there are gaps in training. There 
are always going to be the people that did not get that 
particular web training. I think there is such movement, 
particularly, and cooperation in financial services. There are 
going to be transactions by type. I am sorry, I could not 
describe that right now, but I see such a huge change, and 
there is also a very effective business case to keep the asset 
in the institution, and I think that that is being realized.
    Senator Sinema. Thank you so much.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Last, but certainly not least, I 
am very pleased to welcome Senator Hawley to the Committee.
    Senator Hawley. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you 
for your leadership on this Committee and on this set of 
issues. Ranking Member Casey, thank you as well, and thanks to 
all of the witnesses for being here today.
    I come to this job new, of course, but what I was doing 
just before this, as the chief law enforcement officer of my 
state--nice to see you, Attorney General Schmidt, former 
colleague. I was Attorney General of the State of Missouri, and 
I can say, having read your testimony and listened to you 
today, the problems that you are describing and have 
encountered firsthand is one, I am sorry to say, that is not 
unfamiliar to the State of Missouri where we see rampant 
scamming, elder abuse and fraud. This past year, we recovered, 
I think it was, $13 million in scams that we reversed and were 
able to get restitution for, for consumers in the State of 
Missouri, much of that dealing with seniors, dealing with 
elders, so it is a rampant, rampant problem.
    We try to be as aggressive as we can in the attorney 
general's office and have had some success there, and I am 
delighted to have read your testimony and heard from you today. 
Thank you for what you are doing working on this serious 
problem.
    Ms. Flavin--am I saying that right, by the way?
    Ms. Flavin. Flavin.
    Senator Hawley. Flavin, yes. Can I just start with you just 
to ask you to describe a little bit more about your family's 
story? It strikes me that the people who victimized your 
parents did something awful, and they made them feel that they 
could not talk about a family crisis with their children, and 
this emotional manipulation, can you just tell us, like what 
was that like as a family? Why is this emotional manipulation 
so effective sometimes, unfortunately, and also devastating as 
a family?
    Ms. Flavin. Very much so. When my father was--well, when my 
parents were originally contacted, the phony lawyers kept 
saying that they would only talk to my parents at the same 
time, so they were able to convince and create this emotional 
connection between both of them as opposed to trying to play 
off one or the other.
    At the start of this, my father was told that he was now 
under a court gag order, so the only person he could discuss 
this with was the phony attorney, and their lack of how the 
criminal justice system works I think was a huge factor in this 
scam being allowed to be perpetrated against them.
    I was well aware of the grandparent scam, and I know if my 
parents had called me and said, ``Hey, we got this phone call, 
and I am really concerned about it, from this lawyer in 
Tennessee about Michael Ryan.'' And I am going, ``No, do not 
send them any money. It is a scam.'' I knew that. I was aware 
of it because of an AARP article that they ran last year, and I 
had even gone up to them when I went to visit in May, and I 
said, ``Listen, if you ever get a phone call about my son and 
he is in jail, it is OK to hang up and let him sit.'' I am not 
winning any mother of the year award, but I would know that it 
was a scam.
    My father is acting under the impression that he has this 
court gag order so he cannot tell anybody, and my whole 
response when I first found out about it was actually through a 
posting on Facebook that my nephew, the alleged DUI'er, posted 
on there, I am, like, ``We are a family, and I do not care if 
there is a gag order. No judge is going to put you in jail for 
violating that type of gag order.'' You know, no reasonable 
person. I said, ``We are a family, so not only do we get to 
enjoy the benefits of going through all the good stuff; you get 
to go through all the bad stuff, too, because that is what a 
family is.''
    As a result of this, speaking of family, there is a piece 
of property that my parents have owned for four generations. My 
grandfather purchased this lakefront property when my father 
was about 15 years old. My father helped put up the little 
shack that my grandfather made out of pallets or scavenged 
wood. My parents bought it from them, I think, when I was 15 or 
16, so my grandfather has used it. My father has used it. I 
have used it. My son has used it. This property now has to be 
sold to make up for that deficit. To me that is the killer, 
that right there.
    Senator Hawley. Yes. Thank you for being here today and for 
being willing to share your family's story.
    Ms. Flavin. Thank you for inviting me.
    Senator Hawley. Thank you.
    Attorney General Schmidt, just in the few moments that I 
have remaining here, you have talked a bit about the Fraud and 
Abuse Litigation Division that you started in Kansas. Would you 
just say--talk to us a little bit about some of the lessons 
learned from that, what you have found that has been 
successful? You know, what are things that perhaps you did not 
expect that you have found that have worked well? And what 
might that say to other law enforcement agents at the local, 
state, or federal level about tackling this problem?
    Mr. Schmidt. Sure, Senator. As you well know, and the 
Committee knows, every state is different in our structure for 
criminal investigation and prosecution. Kansas is--and I think 
the plurality or majority of states, but certainly not 
everybody does it this way, but we are--I do not have original 
criminal jurisdiction in most cases. There are a few 
exceptions, Medicaid fraud and a couple of others, but 
generally speaking, we are--a local DA, local county attorney, 
they have got to ask us for help and invite us in, and that is 
relevant to this discussion.
    You know, we have limited resources like everybody else. We 
looked at what we were being asked to help with, and we focused 
our training capacity building on homicide, child sex crimes, 
major drug crimes, cartel type stuff or big manufacturing 
cases, and some public misconduct, corruption type cases that 
are awkward to handle locally. That is our core. That is where 
we put our primary resources.
    We discovered over time we were being asked with great 
frequency by county and district attorneys--mostly the county 
attorneys in the small and mid-size jurisdictions because the 
big jurisdictions tend to have sufficiently robust resources. 
We were being asked to help with elder abuse cases, sometimes 
physical or sexual abuse, but often financial abuse, usually 
fiduciary or trusted individual abuse, but sometimes just 
random scam stuff, and we were turning them down because we did 
not have the resources. We were up to our eyeballs in all those 
other violent crimes I mentioned, and we did not have to take 
them because they are local, and that is the kind of stuff that 
leaves you sleepless at night.
    We finally figured out, after a lot of trial and error that 
I will spare you unless you are just fascinated by it, it is 
impossible, at least in Kansas, for me to put that type of 
financial crimes, elder abuse crimes capacity in my regular 
Criminal Division because I will always make the choice to take 
the next homicide, not the next $20,000 elder abuse case. That 
is the right choice, but it leaves you where you started, so e 
had to spin it off. We broke it out, created a separate 
Criminal Division dedicated only to financial crimes and elder 
abuse of any sort, had to figure out how to pay for it, and for 
us it was not an option at that point in time to just go ask 
for new money, and I am not even sure that was the right thing.
    We persuaded our legislature to overhaul our insurance 
fraud statutes and our securities fraud statutes and an 
existing statute on the abuse, neglect, and exploitation of 
vulnerable populations, pool some money out of those that was 
already in the system, and require that those cases all get 
referred to us for prosecution, and my argument was the whole 
is greater than the sum of the parts. A lot of fraud on elders 
is insurance related or securities related anyway--not all of 
it, but a lot, so there is a logic, and you give me that, I 
will do those cases, and with the capacity that is left we will 
do more run-of-the-mill elder abuse cases, and we are doing 
them.
    We have been doing this about two years now. We have gone 
from zero capacity to, I think, I now have four prosecutors and 
we are trying to add a fifth. I have three sworn officers; we 
are trying to add another; and I have some other clerical 
folks, and essentially, we view that unit, that division--it is 
a criminal prosecution unit, first and foremost, but it is also 
now the focal point in Kansas in the criminal justice system 
for driving the conversation, best practices, sharing 
experiences on the elder abuse side.
    We are stealing ideas from Johnson County, Kansas City, and 
from Wichita that have robust capacity, and we are trying to 
push them out into the western part of the state and the 
southeast where our help is more needed, and it has been a 
very, very good conduit.
    Senator Hawley. Thank you for your leadership.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here today 
and for doing an extraordinary job both on the front lines but 
also in advancing our understanding of this problem.
    Officer Simeoni mentioned that telling a story is often the 
most effective way to connect with people, so in my closing 
remarks, I want to tell a story.
    Probably five or six years ago, I received an e-mail that 
appeared to be from my nephew. It had the correct e-mail 
address from him--it turned out his account had been hacked---
and it said, ``Dear Aunt Susan, I am abroad. I have been robbed 
and mugged, and all of my money has been taken. My airline 
ticket is gone, and I cannot get back to the United States. 
Could you please wire me some money to the Western Union 
office?''
    I guess I am not as kind as Ms. Flavin's parents, 
fortunately. I thought it was real. It sounded like him. It was 
from his e-mail address. It sounded just like him. He called me 
``Aunt Susan,'' and it was signed, ``Love, Mark.''
    I sent back an e-mail that said, ``Mark, you should go to 
the American embassy for help,'' rather than, fortunately, 
wiring him money, because he had mentioned that his passport 
was stolen as well, and then I started thinking about it. I got 
a reply that said, ``Oh, Aunt Susan, I really need to get home. 
I have been all beaten up,'' you know, really laying on a sad 
story, and then I called his father, and I said, ``Do you 
realize Mark is in trouble?'' It turned out Mark was at work 
and was not overseas on vacation, was not in trouble at all.
    I can see, because of my own experience, how easily you 
could be drawn into the horrible situation that Ms. Flavin's 
parents experienced, and because I was aware as a public 
official that the American embassy truly was the right place 
for him to go for help, I did not wire that money, and frankly, 
I probably would have called his parents and told them to wire 
the money, but it shows how clever these criminals are and how 
relentless they are and how the ability to use the VOIP phone 
system can make them target people from faraway call centers in 
India, in other places, and the ability to use the Internet to 
send e-mails, a common scam that we have seen seniors fall prey 
to, is they will get an alert on their computer saying that it 
has been infected with a virus and that if they just provide 
their password and their other personal information, they will 
fix it for $56. Well, of course, there is no virus. Not only 
are they out the $56 but they have inadvertently given the con 
artist access to their bank accounts and to other sensitive 
information that they have on their computers.
    This does require a coordinated approach to prevent seniors 
from being swindled out of their life savings, and I am so 
grateful for the work that all of you are doing. There are just 
too many cases of this happening and causing not only financial 
harm but embarrassment and shame, and our seniors should not be 
subjected to that. It is just outrageously wrong.
    I thank you all for what you are doing to combat these 
fraudsters who often are part of international cartels and, 
more tragically, in many cases are trusted ones known to the 
seniors. Those are the hardest ones of all, when it is a family 
member or a trusted guardian or other person, attorney, 
financial adviser, even a pastor in York County, who rips off a 
vulnerable senior, so we are determined to be just as 
relentless as these con artists are in going after this 
problem.
    Finally, I want to respond to the attorney general's 
comment about the robocalls and the harassment that so many 
seniors are enduring. I really think that the 
telecommunications companies have got to step up to the plate. 
There is new technology that can be deployed, and we are going 
to have a future hearing in which we bring them in to talk 
about that technology. We are working with the FCC as well, and 
they have taken some recent action this past fall, but way more 
can be done to protect seniors so that they know where the call 
is coming from, to crack down on the spoofing, to track the 
call from its origination, the true origination, not what it 
says. In one tragic case we had of a senior who was ripped off 
in Portland, the call said the ``Portland Police Department'' 
on the Caller ID, and that is why the senior turned over money 
for taxes that he did not owe.
    We really need to use every tool that we have available, 
and your being here today is so important in this fight, and I 
am so grateful to each of and every one of you for being here.
    Committee members--we had great attendance today--have 
until Friday, January 25th, to submit additional questions for 
the record, so you may find additional questions coming your 
way. Please do not hesitate, if you have further suggestions 
for us, to reach out to us. We are really always eager to hear 
from you. Thank you so much for being here.
    Senator Casey?
    Senator Casey. Thank you, Chairman Collins, for having this 
hearing. I want to thank our witnesses for their testimony. I 
think it is true of all of us when we say that no one should 
ever fear answering the telephone. Our loved ones should not 
have to fear that a con artist might be lurking on the other 
end of the receiver, and daughters like Erika should not have 
to fear receiving a call from their parents that a lifetime of 
savings has been lost to a thief.
    The work of this Committee to bring together experts, law 
enforcement officials, and representatives of the private 
sector is a step in the right direction, but, of course, we 
have to do more. That is why I am committed to ensuring that 
the legislation that Senator Moran and I have becomes law, the 
Stop Senior Scams Act, and to take other actions as well.
    I will continue to work with Chairman Collins, as we have 
worked together for the last number of years, and other 
colleagues on this Committee and throughout the Senate to do 
everything we can to stop these crimes.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much. I would note that 
Senator Klobuchar and I also have a bill, and I hope we can 
merge our bills and get it enacted into law during this 
Congress.
    Again, one final plug for our new Fraud Book. Shortly--
well, in a few weeks--we will have thousands of copies 
available that we can distribute all over the country and in 
the hopes of helping our seniors.
    Thank you very much for your participation. This hearing is 
now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:31 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
     
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                               APPENDIX   
      
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                      Prepared Witness Statements

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        Prepared Statement of Erika Flavin, Daughter of

              Couple Scammed by Grandparents Scam,

                   Willow Grove, Pennsylvania

    I would like to take this opportunity to thank Ranking 
Member Senator Casey and Madame Chairperson Senator Collins for 
inviting me to speak regarding the recent scam that was 
perpetrated on my parents. Before I start, I would just like to 
give you a bit of background about my parents. My father, 
Thomas Michael Flavin Jr. was born May 30, 1942 to Thomas 
Michael Flavin Sr. and Thelma Elizabeth Flavin (nee Pharoah). 
My grandparents were born around 1920 and were young children 
when the Great Depression started, and my father was born about 
six and a half months after Pearl Harbor. My grandfather spent 
time on Okinawa after the worst of the fighting was over. My 
grandmother, Tilly, to her friends and family, was a stay at 
home mother who, along with my grandfather, (affectionately 
known as Zeke to family and friends) raised five children. My 
father was the oldest, in order after him, was a brother 
Timothy, a set of twin sisters, Sally and Susan, and the baby 
of the family, Joseph. Timothy and Joseph are deceased. By all 
accounts, my father had a typical blue-collar upbringing in the 
town he still resides in to this day.
    My mother, Elfriede Erika Flavin (nee Glasner) was born 
December 14, 1940 in Munich, Germany. My mother was one of 
eight children born of Johanna and Karl Glasner. Her siblings 
are (in order of birth) Kurt, Johanna, Inge, Lisa, Karl, and 
twin brothers. Kurt, Karl, Lisa and her twin brothers are all 
deceased. My mother doesn't talk much about what it was like 
growing up in post WWII Germany but two stories she has shared 
indicated a home that contained an abusive, alcoholic father 
and serious poverty. Her father and her brother Karl committed 
suicide. Needless to say, her upbringing and life was 
difficult.
    My father graduated high school in 1960 and joined the Army 
shortly after. He was sent to Munich, Germany and met my mother 
through his roommate who happened to be dating my aunt Lisa. My 
mother gave birth to my older brother in 1962 and made her way 
to America to join my father, all the while pregnant with me. 
My sister would join our family in 1965.
    My parents did a variety of jobs. My father worked as a 
hospital orderly before he discovered that the sight of blood 
made him queasy. He also worked as a machinist making snow 
plows, a production worker in a brewery and last as an 
administrative clerk for the local Army Reserve Center in town.
    During this time, he was also a member of the Army Reserve. 
My mother worked in a variety of light manufacturing jobs. 
First making the old mercury thermometers, and then making 
motors for small hand tools like drills and saws. After she 
sustained a work-related injury, she was medically retired and 
did substitute work as a teacher's aide working with special 
needs children.
    Growing up in our house was, what I would consider to be a 
typical blue-collar upbringing. We always had a roof over our 
heads, nutritious food, and clothing for all seasons. Our 
family vacations were simple and most of our summers were spent 
at my grandparent's cottage, which my parents purchased from 
them years later.
    I first found out about my parents being scammed through a 
Facebook post from my nephew, who just happened to be ``the 
grandson'' in this story.
    In a nutshell my parents were contacted by someone claiming 
to be a lawyer representing their grandson. Their grandson had 
been involved in a DUI that resulted in an accident. He was 
being held in a jail in Tennessee and according to this phony 
lawyer, my nephew was begging my parents to post bail for him 
so he could get out of jail. When my parents agreed to send the 
money, the phony lawyer told them they were under a gag order 
and could not share this information with anyone. When all was 
said and done, over the course of three phone calls, my parents 
sent the phony lawyer money for bail and to pay for damages 
that their grandson had allegedly caused. My parents withdrew 
cash each time and sent it to one address in Upper Darby, PA 
and two addresses in New York City. When my parents were 
contacted a fourth time for money, for a retainer, they told 
the phony lawyer that there was no more money to give and that 
he would have to contact my nephew's parents to arrange for 
money for a retainer. That was the last they heard from him. 
When they did not get the money back that they had put up for 
their grandson's bail, they contacted my sister. She quickly 
called her son and put him and my parents in a three way 
conversation. Their grandson was exactly where he was supposed 
to be, studying at his college in Buffalo. It was then that my 
parents knew they had been scammed.
    My parents contacted local law enforcement to file a police 
report, but they knew that there was no way that they were 
getting back any of their money.
    I would like to tell you now about how this crime has 
affected my family. Financially, my parents are now out 
$80,544. This was the majority of my father's Thrift Saving 
Plan. This was money that was supposed to be used to help with 
those necessary life expenses one incurs as they age. For 
example, hiring someone to come and help them open up the 
cottage annually, home and vehicle repairs, etc. Between their 
social security and pension, their day to day living expenses 
are covered. I'm grateful that they did not take out any loans 
or second mortgages on their home to pay for the money they 
sent.
    Even sadder still, there is nothing to protect them or 
anyone from these emotional transactions. As long as they have 
the collateral and a good credit rating, there is nothing 
stopping a bank from underwriting these types of loans that 
could potentially imperil their financial safety. My father had 
to sign a document at his bank stating that he was making this 
withdrawal under his own power and wasn't being coerced in any 
way. My father also spoke to the banker afterwards and the 
banker admitted that he thought something was going on, but he 
was not allowed to say anything. I disagree vehemently.
    While the banker does not have the right to stop my father 
from taking out his money, I fail to see how a bank 
representative going up to someone and stating ``We see that 
you have made some very large cash withdrawals and we are 
concerned. We would like to take a few minutes to share with 
you some information about scams that are targeting the senior 
population''. I'm pretty sure that had that happened in my 
parent's case, my parents would have thought twice about what 
they were doing.
    The emotional wreckage that this whole thing provoked is, 
to me, far worse. My mother is in a constant state of anxiety 
and feels that she is a bad grandmother because she failed to 
recognize that the voice on the other end of the phone was not 
her grandson but some imposter who was telling them the change 
in his voice was due to his broken nose from the accident. My 
father has flashbacks to a time when his younger brother was 
arrested, and his parents put up their house for bail and had 
to pay a lawyer $20-30K to defend him. I can't imagine that was 
easy money to come by in the early 1960's for a blue-collar 
family. Both feel utterly humiliated and embarrassed about 
being taken advantage of like this. The local news station did 
a short piece about them and they did not want to appear on 
camera but gave a telephone interview. Even though they are 
embarrassed and humiliated, they felt that getting this 
information out there was even more important. I am here 
because they felt that this story was one that needed to be 
told in order to create protections for seniors who are 
targeted by these scams.
    I cannot speak as to what exactly went through the minds of 
us three kids, but I can say that we were all very sad that our 
parents had to go through this all alone. Remember, they were 
told that they were under a gag order and they believed it. 
Their grandson asked them not to tell his mother (their 
youngest daughter) and they wanted to respect his wishes. I 
also understand that many people in my parents' generation do 
not understand the evil that can be wrought via the Internet 
and social media. In my parent's case, it never occurred to 
them that the person on the other end of the phone was not who 
they claimed to be. I was visiting them when the local 
detective stopped by to take their statement. I overheard my 
parents explaining what happened and it was all I could do to 
not scream, ``NO, it doesn't happen like that.'' It breaks my 
heart that the faith and trust that my parents placed in people 
was taken advantage of in such a despicable manner. My father, 
as a hobby, writes fan fiction based on his interest in space 
travel. He's a pretty good writer but this incident has really 
traumatized him emotionally. I am attaching his written 
testimony at the end of this document, typos and all, to show 
just how much this affected him.
    In closing, I would again like to thank Senator Casey for 
inviting me to tell this story and my parents for giving me 
permission to share their story in the hope that it can help 
someone else.
             Prepared Statement of Candice Simeoni,

           President and Founder of York County Elder

         Abuse Task Force, and Law Enforcement Officer

               at the Kennebunk Police Department

    Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Casey, and Members of the 
Committee: I am humbled and honored to be here before you 
today. Thank you for the opportunity and for your commitment to 
protecting older Americas. I am the founder and president of 
the York County Elder Abuse Task Force in Maine. I am also a 
law enforcement officer at the Kennebunk Police Department.
    I hear heartbreaking stories like Ms. Flavin's parents all 
the time. In fact, last year I worked on well over 70 elder 
justice related cases alone ranging from unsuccessful scams to 
the theft of an entire widowed elders life savings. These cases 
were across the State of Maine.
    I am the founder and president of the York County Elder 
Abuse Task Force in Maine. I am also a law enforcement officer 
at the Kennebunk Police Department.
    Over my law enforcement career, I have had the opportunity 
to complete extensive training in the field of Elder Abuse, 
Domestic Violence and Victim Assistance. I am proud to have 
been part of numerous advances in combating Elder Abuse over 
the past 15 years.
    By working on criminal matters and spending time with 
victims, I have established successful community policing 
approaches in defense of the ever increasing crimes against our 
elders. My work has been featured on nationally recognized 
media productions. I sat on the board that guided the nation's 
first transitional housing facility for victims of elder abuse; 
Martha's Cottage. I am proud to lead the many successes 
generated from the York County Elder Abuse Task Force. I have a 
true passion for being the voice for our vulnerable 
populations: primarily our elderly and those with disabilities. 
I have researched and worked proactively in the fight against 
elder exploitation, speaking nationally about my proactive 
approaches with challenging elder abuse topics in today's 
society. Much of my national presentations are based on 
encouraging the initiation of multidisciplinary teams. I have 
worked on the front line investigating elder exploitation cases 
for much of my career; I have seen the eyes of the victims, 
felt the pain in their words and have carried with me the 
frustration of my limitation to help.
    I started the York County Elder Abuse Task Force in 2005. 
Once I realize that a multidisciplinary approach was so vital 
to protect our elders, I knew I had to make it happen. My very 
first cases were incredibly difficult and I had so many 
questions. Within my profession, I could not find the answers, 
so I started visiting others who I thought could help me with 
the victims in my elder exploitation cases. The majority did 
not understand what Elder Abuse even was. It became a goal of 
mine to educate not only myself but as many others as possible. 
In doing so I built credibility, sparked some passion in others 
and developed an incredibly solid task force with a group of 
professionals I could count on when I needed help. I realized 
that the initial goal for these cases should not be 
prosecution; yet about preventing further victimization as much 
as possible and then looking to build a potential case.
    The York County Elder Abuse Task Force is a group of 
committed professionals from many fields, including but not 
limited to law enforcement, social services, legal services, 
government employees and financial institutions. We come 
together to share our knowledge and skills, to serve as a 
resource to educate the public about elder abuse, and 
ultimately eliminate it as a problem in York County, Maine. We 
have developed an unbreakable bond and sense of respect for 
each of our differing professions. We rely on each other to 
remedy our cases as affectively as we can and count on our 
skills to be an asset to victims and witnesses alike. The 
county of York is our primary focus but making an impact 
nationally is our goal.
    We as a task force have been able to be a part of and 
developed many innovative and nationally recognized activities 
surrounding our elders. I have found that talking directly 
about elder abuse is not a well received topic and so I strive 
to find indirect ways to approach the topic.
    With this in mind we have developed initiatives to include 
the ``Wishing Well''. This is a project which grants our local 
elders a wish of their lifetime. President George W. Bush, Sr. 
was instrumental in the success of one of our recipients: 
Project 41. At the time of the nomination: Maine's oldest 
resident, Millie Remmie 106, dreamed of meeting the former 
president for as long as she could remember. Together, with 
collaborative efforts from various people and organizations, we 
made that dream a reality. One of the most important goals in 
the fight to eradicate the exploitation of our elders is for 
professionals and community members to grow a keen 
understanding of each other and expand our resource pool to 
reach a common goal. We find innovative ways to do so. This is 
an example of an indirect effort with the focus on our elders' 
best interest to build credibility, trust and hope.
    I believe reaching as many facets of our community is vital 
in advancing ahead of the exploitation of our elders. One way 
we have learned to reach our younger generation is by 
sponsoring a scholarship for graduating seniors. The project is 
based on a winning essay involving a theme of elder abuse. This 
idea has now been used statewide.
    The most important goal for my task force is education. We 
vow to educate ourselves as much as we are able so that we can 
be an asset to others. The group conducts mobile awareness 
discussions and presentations throughout the county and state. 
We coordinate ``Senior Safety Road Shows'' where we give 30 
minute talks on current scams in their particular area. We 
encourage local law enforcement and town/general assistance 
representatives to attend with us as we meet residents of their 
community. Also along the education goal, we have produced a 
training video for agencies to use in our absence. The video is 
of an abused elder who tells her story. While she is talking, 
what she is really thinking/feeling is written on the screen. 
This piece shows the complexity of these cases and reveals the 
unspoken real story of one elder's journey.
    We host a very successful annual conference focused on the 
importance of multidisciplinary approaches to elder abuse. We 
started this event 11 years ago. This, to us, is an example of 
building credibility and exemplifying the multidisciplinary 
approach mindset. At this year's annual conference we were 
pleased to be joined by the newly appointed Elder Justice 
Coordinator at the US Department of Justice and we distributed 
copies of this Committee's Fraud Book to the more than 100 
attendees.
    One last note about education effort is that I instruct the 
Elder Abuse segment at the Maine Criminal Justice Academy for 
all cadets that become law enforcement officers in the State of 
Maine.
    I recognized the need for a specialized focus for our elder 
population the first year I became a law enforcement officer. 
While dealing with a personal case involving my grandfather, I 
also recognized the vulnerability of the community I worked in. 
The York County coastline is inundated with retirees and many 
elders living alone.
    As a matter of fact, according to 2017 US Census data, the 
State of Maine is still the oldest state in our Nation. The 
population of Maine over the age of 65 is nearly 20 percent. In 
Kennebunk, that same population is over 35 percent. With this 
knowledge, it is our duty to act. We have an obligation to do 
what we can.
    As people live longer, they also face more problems with 
chronic illness and disabilities. One in four elderly persons 
live alone and are among the most vulnerable and impoverished 
groups in Maine. Although many are considered asset rich, they 
are liquid money poor and are easy victims of scams promising 
the receipt of large incomes.
    The change in the composition of our population since I 
started my career and the steep number of our elder population 
has had and will continue to have important implications for 
our law enforcement community. The number of elderly victims 
entering the criminal justice system can be expected to 
increase significantly. We are already falling well behind.
    Traditionally, law enforcement has dealt with crime 
committed by and against a younger population. This population 
shift and the increase in crime targeted specifically against 
older persons, requires the development of specialized services 
to address elderly victims of crime.
    Based on statistics gathered by the National Center on 
Elder Abuse, it is estimated that for each case of elder abuse, 
neglect, exploitation, or self-neglect reported to authorities, 
about five more go unreported. That doesn't even include the 
highest incidence of elder abuse which is financial 
exploitation.
    Current estimates put the overall reporting of financial 
exploitation at only 1 in 25 cases, suggesting that there may 
be at least 5 million financial abuse victims each year. Elder 
abuse has no boundaries.
    There are an estimated 5 million victims of elder abuse 
each year in our Nation; 12,000 of those are believed to be 
Maine seniors, who are abused often at the hand of their loved 
ones, the people they trust most in the world. This is a 
serious underestimate of the problem. As a matter of fact, it 
is estimated that 84 percent of all elder abuse cases go 
unreported.
    The U.S. Department of Justice publication ``The Elder 
Justice Roadmap'' (Connolly, M.T., Brandl, B., & Breckman, R. 
(2014)) states that experts have reported that knowledge about 
elder abuse lags as much as two decades behind the fields of 
child abuse and domestic violence. The need for more research 
is urgent and it is an area that calls out for a coordinated, 
systematic approach that includes policy makers, researchers 
and funders.
    In that same publication, it is suggested that financial 
exploitation causes large economic losses for businesses, 
families, elders, and government programs. It also increases 
reliance on federal health care programs such as Medicaid.
    Fraud through the mail is fascinating to me, and not in a 
good way. One piece to the multidisciplinary approach for me 
has been my work with the US Postal Investigators. I have 
learned a great deal from them. Seeing international scammers 
make our domestic elders unknowing vessels of fraud is 
heartbreaking! Innocent U.S. elders losing everything and 
taking other unsuspected victims along with them is 
devastating.
    The underreporting is astounding and is immense. The main 
reason is because victims are often afraid of retaliation; they 
feel dependent upon the abuser or have grown an admiration of 
them. I am working on current cases where elders fall victim to 
the ``new best friend'', sometimes they have never even met 
them. They are ``friends'' that they have developed over the 
phone or through the mail. People in positions of power can be 
very convincing and capitalize on elder's vulnerabilities. A 
good example of this is the Maine pastor who is pending trial 
for exploiting a dependant elder. Through investigating this 
case and all the others, I gain motivation to do what I can to 
expose this epidemic even more, to spread more awareness and 
education. If these victims knew more about Elder Abuse prior 
to falling victim, could we have saved them from this abuse?
    At the end of life, at a time when elders should be 
receiving gratitude and support for the contributions they have 
made to their families and their communities, the typical 
victim ofelder abuse is suffering alone, afraid to disclose the 
shame and disgrace of the abuse and fearful that speaking out 
will cause an even worse consequence. Four in five abusers are 
family members. Most are substance abusers. Many snap under the 
stress of care giving. Whatever the reason, whatever the form 
of Elder Abuse, it hurts.
    A cause of the underreporting of this crime lies among all 
of us. It is too easy to turn away. The investigations are very 
time consuming, the resources are sparse and the law protecting 
this population from crime is not simple to prove.
    We need to move forward now with protecting our elders. The 
State of Maine would be an incredible place to start greater 
initiatives. Together we could pave the way to being the 
example for other states to follow. I encourage this committee 
to consider two strategies that would help professionals like 
me, help our elders:
    (1) Along with reaching out to all elders through 
education, statute needs to be modified or changed to protect 
victims even when they don't believe that they are in fact a 
victim. With reactive elder abuse, there is little hope of 
recovery because of the devastating effects of these 
situations. Those of us on the front line need to be more 
proactive to inform elders but we also need help lifting the 
limitations of the current law when we react. Many of the cases 
that I see stall at the victim themselves. They don't want to 
recognize that they are in fact a victim. They can't comprehend 
why someone would manipulate them or prey on their innocence. 
Their abuser is often considered charismatic and comforting; 
something that some elders haven't felt in a very long time. 
The abusers are taking everything; not just financially but 
also their dignity and independence too. If we do not stop 
this, perpetrators will find more victims. Our elders are being 
scammed out of their lifelong homes. They are losing all that 
they have saved to not only international scam artists but now 
by domestic ones who have learned tricks from overseas.
    If we don't work together on this level now, we have failed 
what should be our most respected generation. Think of it as we 
are rejecting the values taught to us by our elders, the values 
that define us, have created us . . . have protected us . . . 
The tragedy of elder abuse is a reflection upon all of us and 
the values that define us.
    (2) I encourage the development of specialized law 
enforcement positions in each state. Elder Exploitation 
Investigation teams, much like Drug Enforcement Agency units 
with the ability to arrest and see cases from start to finish 
would be something to seriously consider. Most of these cases 
cross town lines and involved an incredible amount of foot work 
before developing a case. Municipal officers are limited by 
jurisdictions. They are also responsible for working on every 
type of crime and rarely have opportunities to gather knowledge 
on isolated crimes, like elder abuse/exploitation. The abuse of 
our elders is significant and increasing. Even though the 
statistics are deceiving, they are still devastating.
    I suggest that this unit shall be both proactive and 
reactive. They should be sponsored by their law enforcement 
agencies (just like the structure of the MDEA) and contracted 
to the unit. They need to work with multiple organizations and 
send solid messages to all our residents about the seriousness 
of their efforts all while ending very strong messages to those 
who are targeting our elders.
    We know that if we remove one side of the crime triangle 
(ability/opportunity/desire), a crime will not likely be 
committed, so by removing the `desire' side will make it 
collapse. Much like the Hidden Camera project my task force and 
I developed. If a suspect thinks they will be caught, the 
desire will likely be diminished. I have found by just posting 
information about my Hidden Camera project in suspected areas, 
crime has significantly decreased.
    Its time to bring knowledge and new initiatives to the 
forefront to send a message that this epidemic is not hidden 
any longer.
    I have been working hard in my state for years and I am at 
a point where I need help at the federal level. I hope we can 
work toward fighting this ``touchy subject'';``The hidden 
epidemic'', so that the statistics do not increase the way they 
are predicted to.
    I am so grateful to be among all of you today and I truly 
hope you understand the hope you give to not only me but to our 
elder population. Chairman Collins and Ranking Member Casey 
have been instrumental in recognizing the importance of 
tackling this catastrophe. Chairman Collins has been noted in 
many of the annual conferences that my task force holds, and 
even contributed a wonderful video keynote in 2017. She gives 
me hope. This committee also gives me hope. Thank all of you, 
for your work in publishing the annual Fraud publication. They 
are available at our conference every year.
    George Orwell once made the statement: Democracy isn't 
about talking pretty or playing paddy cakes all day, it is 
about telling the truth and the truth is sometimes ugly, often 
times people do not want to hear it, but we are going to tell 
it here and we are going to expose the people that feel that 
can profit from the misery of others and operate in the 
darkness with immunity.
    We will fight this fight with tears, suffering also with 
facts, statistics and truth and we are going to fight it one 
battle at a time and we are not going to be intimidated into 
silence or will we ever turn away''.
    Again, I thank you and look forward to answering any 
questions you may have.
      Prepared Statement of the Honorable Derek Schmidt, 
         Attorney General, State of Kansas, Topeka, KS

    Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Casey and Members of the 
Committee: Thank you for the invitation to testify before the 
committee on the ongoing efforts being made by state attorneys 
general, in conjunction with our federal, state and local 
partners, to combat the growing problem of elder abuse, 
particularly from scams and rip-offs. I appreciate and commend 
the committee for holding this hearing to highlight this work 
and to further the discussion on what more we can do to 
strengthen these efforts.
    I am the Attorney General for the State of Kansas, a 
statewide, elected constitutional officer of our state. I have 
served in this capacity since January 2011. As Kansas attorney 
general, I have made a priority of building capacity and 
focusing resources on fraud and abuse investigations and 
prosecutions, including those involving older Kansans.

Policy of the National Association of Attorneys General

    I also am the immediate past president of the National 
Association of Attorneys General (NAAG), the nonpartisan 
association that represents all 56 state, territory and 
District of Columbia attorneys general in the United States. 
During my year as NAAG president in 2017-2018, I led our 
Presidential Initiative titled: ``Protecting America's Seniors: 
Attorneys General United Against Elder Abuse.'' As part of that 
initiative, our organization worked in a bipartisan, or 
nonpartisan, manner to gather information, hear from experts 
and practitioners, and help build capacity to prevent and 
combat elder abuse throughout the country and in our respective 
jurisdictions. One culmination of the year was a national 
summit on the subject, which I hosted in Manhattan, Kansas, in 
April 2018. Information from that summit is available on the 
NAAG website at https://www.naag.org/meetings-trainings/video-
and-other-av-archive/2018-Presidential-initiative-summit.php.
    Another ongoing outcome from our yearlong focus on elder 
abuse was the formation of a new committee within NAAG focused 
on elder justice issues. It is clear the need for this focus 
will last for years into the future. I am proud to co-chair 
that committee along with Oregon Attorney General Ellen 
Rosenblum.
    My testimony today will contain references to certain 
letters, signed by a super-majority of NAAG members, which 
under our procedures reflect an official policy position of 
NAAG. Thus, to the extent my testimony today reflects the 
content of those NAAG letters, it constitutes the views of the 
National Association of Attorneys General; to the extent I 
testify to matters outside those letters, my testimony 
constitutes only my views as Attorney General for the State of 
Kansas.

Growing Senior Population Requires Added Focus

    Between 1900 and 2010, the number of Americans age 65 and 
older grew from fewer than 5 million to more than 40 million, 
according to the U.S. Census Bureau. Over the same time, the 
portion of the population in that age bracket rose from about 3 
percent to more than 12 percent. As the baby boomers continue 
into retirement, roughly 10,000 Americans turn age 65 each day, 
and that trend is expected to continue for the next decade.
    By one estimate, only one in every 24 cases of elder abuse 
is detected or reported. Despite that underreporting, 
statistically one in every 10 Americans age 65 or older who 
lives at home will become a victim of abuse. The types of abuse 
this includes span the full spectrum from consumer fraud to 
financial abuse to physical and sexual abuse, all of which can 
disproportionally target elder victims.
    Another pertinent factor, less discussed, is that the 
median net worth of a U.S. household with at least one resident 
age 65 or older now exceeds $240,000--the most of any age group 
in the United States. Thus, at precisely the time the 
population of older Americans is growing rapidly, that same 
population--which includes many members made vulnerable by 
characteristics and changes often associated with aging--
controls more wealth than ever before, so it should not be 
surprising that fraudsters and scam artists are targeting older 
Americans more than ever before. They target older Americans 
for the same reason Willie Sutton robbed banks: Because that's 
where the money is.
    In our office, we have acknowledged this growing problem by 
strengthening our resources both to help prevent elder abuse 
and to investigate and prosecute cases when they occur. In 
2016, I reorganized the Kansas attorney general's office to 
establish a new Fraud and Abuse Litigation Division that 
focuses criminal investigation and prosecution resources, in 
part, on elder abuse. That division houses the Abuse, Neglect 
and Exploitation Unit established by the Kansas Legislature and 
also the prosecution of financial crimes involving insurance or 
securities. By law, the Fraud and Abuse Litigation Division 
also coordinates closely with the consumer-protection and 
Medicaid fraud and abuse enforcement work in the attorney 
general's office.
    On the prevention front, we have increased the educational 
resources of our office to help make sure Kansans are aware of 
the types of fraudulent activities that are prevalent. In 
particular, our Consumer Protection Division offers 
presentations to community organizations, senior centers and 
business groups to keep Kansans informed about current scams 
and fraud schemes. We have also increased our online 
educational resources through our consumer protection website 
at www.InYourCornerKansas.org, which offers a user-friendly way 
to get tips on prevention and how to get help in the 
unfortunate circumstance when one has become a victim.

Combatting Robocalls

    I know the Committee has placed a particular focus for this 
hearing on frauds that are perpetrated through robocalls, and 
rightfully so. The plague of robocalls that has exploded in 
recent years has resulted in a huge surge in complaints being 
filed with our office, other states' attorneys general offices 
as well as the federal agencies with jurisdiction. I often have 
conversations with Kansans who are frustrated with the number 
of calls they are receiving, despite having their numbers on 
the Do Not Call Registry.
    The unfortunate reality is that these spam callers don't 
care about the Do Not Call list or any other laws we may pass 
to try to combat them. The vast majority are located overseas, 
armed with VOIP technology that allows them to make thousands 
of calls each day for very little cost. These callers know that 
they only need to reach a very small percentage of the people 
they are placing calls to in order to make a profit. An 
estimated 47.8 billion robocalls were made to Americans in 
2018.\1\ Like other federal, state and local law enforcement 
agencies, we continue to investigate bad actors and take 
enforcement actions--when we can find them, but after-the-fact 
enforcement alone never will be able to solve this problem 
because the volume of calls is simply too large. This problem 
was enabled by technology, which allows robocalls to be placed 
from halfway around the world into American living rooms at 
virtually no cost, and it will also require a technological 
solution.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ YouMail Robocall Index, https://robocallindex.com/history/time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Already, there are several products on the market that help 
reduce robocalls. There are a multitude of smartphone apps that 
allow users to block calls from known robocall numbers. 
However, these apps are only effective insofar as the caller is 
not spoofing its caller ID to come from a number that is known 
to the user, or even in some cases the user's own number.
    That is where we believe the new protocols under 
consideration and implementation by the Federal Communications 
Commission known by the acronym SHAKEN/STIR may prove to be 
effective. These protocols provide frameworks that service 
providers can utilize to authenticate legitimate calls and 
identify illegally spoofed calls.
    In two comment letters to the FCC on the adoption of the 
proposed regulations to implement these protocols, groups of 30 
and 35 state attorneys general, respectively, including myself, 
have urged their swift adoption by domestic and international 
service providers. While I doubt this will be a magic bullet 
that ends the scourge of illegal robocalls, I am hopeful that 
implementation will move us in the right direction. I have 
attached to my testimony copies of these two comment letters 
(Attachments A and B).

Recommendations Going Forward

    As we continue working to improve our overall response to 
the growing problem of the abuse, neglect and exploitation of 
older Americans, I offer several suggestions for the 
committee's consideration.
    First, on the robocall front, it is imperative that we 
continue and step-up cooperative efforts to improve the 
availability and ease-of-use of consumer technology to block 
unwanted robocalls. SHAKEN/STIR is promising, but it alone will 
not be the solution. Our National Association of Attorneys 
General has developed a bipartisan working group that is 
engaging, on an ongoing basis, with major telecommunications 
companies to continually advance our efforts on this front. The 
goals of this working group are:

    --Develop a detailed understanding of what is 
technologically feasible to minimize unwanted robocalls and 
illegal telemarking;
    --Engage the major telecom companies to encourage them to 
expedite the best possible solutions for consumers; and
    --Determine whether states should make further 
recommendations to the FCC.

    I recommend these ongoing cooperative efforts continue and, 
as appropriate, engage all of the key players: federal 
regulators, state enforcers and the private sector companies 
that provide the services.
    Second, we should strengthen and coordinate our outreach 
and education efforts. The purpose is to help empower those who 
work with older Americans, or older Americans themselves, to 
prevent abuse, neglect and exploitation by knowing what to look 
for and what to do when they see it. There are many such 
efforts now underway--so many, in fact, that messaging and 
advice can be inconsistent, or sometimes contradictory, so 
coordination is key. In Kansas, we help lead the ongoing 
education and outreach for preventing elder abuse, neglect and 
exploitation through our In Your Corner Kansas outreach 
program, and I am considering adding an employee whose job will 
be lead this outreach and education.
    Moreover, recurring joint federal and state public events 
focusing on the problem of frauds and scams targeting older 
Americans can be beneficial by raising the profile of the 
issue. Last February, I joined then U.S. Attorney General Jeff 
Sessions, other federal law enforcement leaders, and 
representatives of victimized older Americans at a news 
conference at the Department of Justice to announce the largest 
federal and state enforcement sweep against fraudsters 
targeting older Americans in history. Future events of this 
sort could be helpful in sustaining attention on the problem.
    Third, while education, outreach and prevention are 
important, we must not lose sight of the fundamental importance 
of effective enforcement actions. Nothing gets the attention of 
those who abuse or exploit older Americans quite like seeing 
others who do so detected, caught, prosecuted and punished in a 
meaningful way for their actions.
    To that end, I would like to bring to the committee's 
attention a potential model for stepping up prosecutions using 
existing resources. Several years, my office partnered with the 
Kansas City regional office of the Department of Health and 
Human Services, Office of Inspector General to increase 
enforcement against criminal home health care fraud in the 
Medicaid system. The concept was simple: federal investigators 
at HHS-OIG encounter fraud involving losses small enough that 
obtaining prosecution by the United States Attorney was 
difficult or impossible. It is, of course, entirely 
understandable that U.S. Attorneys must prioritize use of their 
scarce prosecution resources and naturally focus first on 
larger cases, but smaller cases are no less important--just 
smaller.
    We partnered with HHS-OIG for their agents to investigate 
and refer to our office cases with loss amounts less than what 
the U.S. Attorney chose to prosecute. Our only limitation was 
that we wanted the cases presented for prosecution in state 
court under state law, and that was agreeable to all parties. 
The result of this partnership--we called it ``Operation No 
Show''--was about a dozen cases of home health care fraud 
successfully prosecuted. These were cases that otherwise would 
have been detected by federal authorities but never prosecuted 
in the federal system.
    In short, it was a win-win for all involved.
    That same model, it seems to me, has promise in addressing 
fraud and exploitation of older Americans. Federal agencies 
that encounter such fraud--the Postal Inspection Service, the 
Secret Service, Homeland Security Investigations, the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation, just to name a few--should develop 
standing partnerships with state attorneys general, where 
appropriate under state law, to obtain state prosecution of 
crimes against older Americans that otherwise would be unlikely 
to be prosecuted by federal authorities because of their 
relatively small size. The key is to institutionalize these 
relationships and the flow of cases, probably at the regional 
office level for the federal agencies, not to rely on ad hoc 
referrals.
    Fourth, it is clear that our overall capacity to detect, 
investigate and criminally prosecute fraud and similar crimes 
against older Americans has not kept pace with the need that is 
being driven by the growing elder population. Most of this 
institutional capacity must come from states because that is 
where most fraud is investigated and prosecuted, but we should 
continually seek opportunities for federal participation that 
could make a significant improvement in state capacity.
    One such area would be to change federal law in a manner 
that removes a limitation on the authority of Medicaid Fraud 
Control Units (MFCUs) to detect, investigate and prosecute 
patient abuse. Under current law, MFCUs may work to combat 
fraud against the Medicaid program itself wherever it may occur 
but may only combat abuse of Medicaid beneficiaries (including 
fraud committed against patients) when it occurs in a health 
care facility or board and care facility.
    Last year, I testified before the U.S. House Committee on 
Energy and Commerce, Subcommittee on Health, in support of a 
bill that was backed by NAAG, to remove this limitation and 
allow our MFCUs to go after fraud or abuse of Medicaid 
beneficiaries wherever it occurs. That bipartisan bill, H.R. 
3891, sponsored by Rep. Tim Walberg (R-MI) and Rep. Peter Welch 
(D-VT), was reported out of the House Energy and Commerce 
Committee by voice vote last September. It has been 
reintroduced by Reps. Walberg and Welch in this session of 
Congress as H.R. 233. To date, I am unaware of any Senate 
companion legislation. Attached for your consideration is my 
testimony in support of this legislation (Attachment C).

Conclusion

    I again thank the committee for holding this hearing and 
for allowing me to share some information on the work that my 
colleagues and I are doing to combat elder abuse, including 
frauds, scams and rip-offs targeting older Americans. As the 
population of seniors in American continues to grow, we must 
continue to work together at all levels of government to ensure 
the resources, authority and coordination necessary to address 
this growing need are in place.
    Thank you for your consideration.
          Prepared Statement of Judith Kozlowski, JD,

      Elder Justice Consultant and Subject Matter Expert,

                        Washington, D.C.

    Thank you, Chairman Collins and Ranking Member Casey, for 
this opportunity to appear before you and all other members of 
the Committee today. It is an honor to share with you some of 
my experience of over the last 40 years on the matter of elder 
financial abuse and exploitation, a subject to which I have 
devoted my professional life. In my observation, the federal, 
state and local initiatives in this field have grown 
significantly and much has been accomplished to help prevent 
elder financial fraud. However, with the explosion of 
technology and the growing older population, we have little 
time to waste in developing and implementing strategies to 
address what is now an increasingly a global issue.
    When I work, I often think of the victims in my cases, but 
I also carrying my Uncle Howard in my heart. He was a small 
businessman and World War II veteran who lost nearly everything 
to an investment scheme as Alzheimer's disease took him away. 
He was one of thousands of victims of a large scheme run in 
Orange County, California. The recovery for his life's work was 
barely pennies on the dollar and my aunt, his lifelong business 
partner, was forced to place him in a public institution, 
instead of being able to have him at home. She was legally 
blind and rode three busses each way, every day to visit him in 
his last year. This was not the ending they ever deserved or 
contemplated.
    In the early 1980's, I was an enforcement attorney at the 
Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) where I investigated 
investment frauds, particularly small offering and penny stock 
market manipulation schemes. Many of the victims of those 
schemes were older adults, specifically targeted by the 
perpetrators. It broke my heart to witness firsthand the 
financial, material and deep psychological damage suffered by 
those victims. The shame and broken trust in humanity they 
expressed was tangible and unforgettable. Sadly, today many 
older victims feel that same shame and broken trust.
    I left the SEC to become an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the 
Southern District of Florida and in the District of Columbia. 
My focus was on white collar fraud investigations and 
prosecutions, and I always looked for cases involving older 
victims because I felt I could have a greater impact there. 
Later, at the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA), 
the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), the 
Administration for Community Living (ACL) at HHS, and now as a 
consultant at the Department of Justice's Elder Justice 
Initiative (EJI), I learned more about the social and cognitive 
challenges facing older adults and participated in policy work 
and training to build responses to the growing issue of elder 
financial exploitation.
    Despite renewed commitment in some quarters, the financial 
fraud schemes against older adults continue to grow and become 
more complex. The number of victims grow, too, as the 
population ages. This is also borne out by this Committees own 
Fraud Hotline. During my career, I have witnessed a growing and 
effective multidisciplinary response to the frauds and swindles 
hurting and often devastating the lives of older adults. Much 
of this change is a direct result of increased federal 
attention and legislation. One very effective collaboration is 
the Federal Elder Justice Coordinating Council.

Federal, State and Local Cooperation

    The Elder Justice Coordinating Council (EJCC), part of the 
Elder Justice Act (2009), has transformed the work of the 
Federal Government on issues of elder justice. Established in 
2012, this twelve member federal agency council has grown to 
include new agencies and divisions within member agencies to 
further expand the reach of the Council's work. The Elder 
Justice Working Group (EJWG) comprised of staff members from 
each of the member agencies worked to establish Eight 
Recommendations adopted by the EJCC as a framework to guide its 
work and on financial exploitation and to create a more 
comprehensive and integrated federal approach to the issues of 
Elder Justice. It has provided a forum for discussion about 
prioritizing what issues need focus and how member agencies can 
work together to address them. Since 2012, partnerships across 
agencies have addressed the issue of financial exploitation and 
enforcement of financial crimes against older adults. Elder 
financial exploitation remains the most pervasive and fastest 
growing form of elder abuse in this country and the world. EJCC 
members have created the Interagency Guidance on Privacy Laws 
and Reporting Financial Abuse of Older Adults; routinely add 
substantive content to the Department of Justice's Elder 
Justice website, including substantial portions for prosecutors 
and law enforcement and training.
    Elderjustice.gov is now a leading resource in the field of 
aging. Partnerships with the Corporation for National and 
Community Service (CNCS), the United States Postal Inspection 
Service (USPIS), the DOJ and the ACL's resource centers are 
beginning to work with local TRIADS to more effectively help 
train advocates and law enforcement address local problems 
faster and more comprehensively. Agencies also worked together 
with ACL in the development of the National Adult Maltreatment 
Reporting System (NAMRS) data base to develop a better picture 
of elder abuse nationally. Through the EJCC, the Social 
Security Administration and the Department of Veterans Affairs 
received support and input to strengthen their representative 
payee programs and to fight fraud and abuse within those 
important programs. This year, for the first time, there is an 
Elder Justice track at CNCS for grantees of its RSVP and Senior 
Corps programs.
    As long as I have been doing this work, research has 
remained a gap in our knowledge about perpetrators and victims 
and about what interventions may be successful. The Department 
of Justice, ACL, and NIH have given research grants to support 
innovative projects in the field of elder abuse financial 
exploration. Some grantees are integrating technology tools for 
prevention of elder abuse. federal, state and local law 
enforcement agencies worked with the ACL resource centers for 
Adult Protective Services, the National Center for Elder Abuse 
and the National Center for Law and Elder Rights to enhance 
their training about elder abuse and financial exploitation 
results.
    Federal public awareness campaigns and have successfully 
leveraged ways of getting important and useful knowledge to the 
public through products such as the Federal Trade Commission's 
(FTC's) Pass It On campaign and the CFPB's fiduciary guides, 
Managing Someone Else's Money. This information is also 
distributed in multiple languages to reach a wider audience. 
Training opportunities across many disciplines including Adult 
Protective Services, financial services training, and civil 
legal services for older adults have broadened the field. 
Webinars and training from member agencies frequently feature 
participants from several federal agencies, non-profits and 
private partners with whom they work. Agencies and law 
enforcement work together with the financial services sector to 
develop training programs. Civil legal services received 
support from the Elder Justice AmeriCorps which allowed new 
attorneys the opportunity to work for two years on the often 
complex legal issues facing older adults. These efforts have 
reach thousands of older Americans and their families.
    By using the expertise and resources of its members, making 
partners across federal agencies, and thinking broadly and 
inclusively about how to address important issues for older 
adults, the EJCC has moved the field.
    As with EJCC, federal legislation has been an important 
tool to move federal law enforcement. The recently signed Elder 
Abuse Protection and Prosecution Act (EAPPA) is also making its 
mark. By establishing an Elder Justice Coordinator (EJC), an 
AUSA devoted to this issue in every federal district, and 
requiring regular training of FBI agents, the issue of elder 
abuse and financial exploitation is now a cornerstone of 
federal law enforcement work. EAPPA's provision requiring 
community outreach by EJCs further offers the opportunity to 
build multidisciplinary partnerships with state and local 
counterparts and to bring benefits to the field. The mere fact 
that local and state law enforcement know that there is a 
strong federal interest in this work and in greater cooperation 
across jurisdictions will enhance the number and quality of 
elder abuse and financial exploitation cases brought 
nationwide. A key provision of EAPPA requires training on how 
to work with older victims and witnesses. This training has 
included elder abuse experts and neuroscientists as well as 
victim specialists in the field.
    The National Association of Attorneys General (NAAG), under 
the leadership of Kansas Attorney General Derek Schmidt, has 
been key in building partnerships within states and with the 
Federal Government. There are long standing state and federal 
partnerships with State Medicare Fraud Units (MFCU) units in 
the area of health care fraud, but under Attorney General 
Schmidt elder abuse and financial fraud cases have greater 
focus. Some states, like New York and Maryland have a specific 
Assistant Attorney General assigned to elder affairs, covering 
cases from consumer concerns to criminal prosecutions.
    The National Center for State Courts also conducts elder 
abuse and financial exploitation training for judges and court 
personnel. Victim witness advocates also participate as 
trainers in these courses. The Center is working to develop a 
system to track guardianship expenditures to alert the court 
and to prevent fraud by guardians.
    On the local level, the International Association of the 
Chiefs of Police (IACP), supported by the DOJ has just released 
Roll Call videos on elder abuse and financial exploitation 
which are shared with its membership of over 30,000 members in 
150 countries and are available on its website. These short 
videos feature different aspects of elder abuse and showcase 
the key role that local police play in identifying elder abuse 
and financial exploitation and bringing the perpetrators to 
justice. There are also other initiatives by IACP to 
specifically address financial exploitation. There are many 
outstanding local prosecutors throughout the Nation including 
those in King County, Washington (Seattle), Cook County, 
Illinois (Chicago), Los Angeles County, Orange County and Marin 
County in California, to name just a few. Each of these local 
experts are usually part of multi-disciplinary teams, which 
now, with EAPPA look to include federal agents and prosecutors.
    These partnerships and training opportunities have changed 
the field of law enforcement of elder abuse and financial 
exploitation. The cooperative work of agents and officers who 
worked on the hundreds of cases brought in last year's historic 
nationwide elder fraud sweeps is a tribute to the benefits of 
law enforcement collaboration in all departments.

Education: Raising Awareness About Elder Abuse and Exploitation

    There has been renewed attention on materials, campaigns 
and outreach to increase awareness about frauds targeting older 
adults. However, there are often limits to the education of 
older adults without further support. Complexities associated 
with cognitive changes present challenges to how to create 
effective information campaigns and bring awareness about 
financial dangers. Mild cognitive impairment often affects the 
ability of older adults to retain well intended and important 
information once they have received it. Often, a few hours 
after the best organized presentation on how to prevent being a 
victim of current frauds and swindles, the information and 
warnings may fade and the message diminishes. One of the 
strengths of the FTC's Pass It On campaign is the manner in 
which it encourages the continuation of the conversation.
    Education, especially, financial literacy education, in the 
context of multigenerational training may well have an effect 
and act as a protective measure in the face of financial 
exploitation. Multigenerational training can provide some of 
the support an older adult may need in the face of fraud. 
Having other trained family members or trusted persons can also 
be important supports in the face of social isolation and 
cognitive impairment. Providing someone to talk to in the midst 
of pressure from a perpetrator and breaking down the social 
isolation, this can act as a preventive action against fraud. 
For example, the NY State Attorney General's office this fall 
released a short Public Service Announcement about the 
Grandparent Scam. In it, high school students speak to their 
grandparents to tell them to call them before they send money 
to anybody. It is a straightforward appeal. The PSA also 
includes Dr. Ruth Wertheimer, who was nearly a victim of the 
same scam.

Financial Services

    The financial services industry has also become a strong 
and much needed partner in the fight against elder financial 
exploitation. The Senior Safe Act, passed last year, will 
undoubtedly increase reporting of financial exploitation of 
older adults and provide the much needed training to tellers 
and supervisors of financial institutions. In many of the cases 
I prosecuted, I was told by bank tellers that they were afraid 
to report what they saw before them for fear of losing their 
job; not because they were wrong, but because they were afraid 
of losing the customer.
    NASAA, the North American Securities Administrators 
Association, under the leadership of Maine Securities 
Administrator, Judith Shaw, drafted a Model Act to Protect 
Vulnerable Adults which has now been adopted in 19 states and 
is set to be voted on in at least five other states this year. 
This Act and the Advisory Group on Senior Issues has created an 
informal nationwide multidisciplinary team focused on senior 
investors.
    SIFMA, the Securities Industry and Financial Markets 
Association, through its Senior Investor Protection program has 
a long standing working group and sponsors regional programs 
involving federal, state and local law enforcement, local SIFMA 
members, federal, state local prosecutors and often experts in 
the field of aging and cognition. It has a special section on 
its website devoted to issues of senior investors and a tool 
kit for brokers and investment advisors on recognizing common 
frauds, elder financial exploitation and tips about what to do 
when a fraud is recognized.
    The new FINRA Rules, Rule 4512 that creates a trusted 
contact form for account holders regardless of age and Rule 
2165 that permits a transactional hold by a broker suspicious 
of a transaction, are also changing some of the ways the 
financial industry addresses elder financial fraud. Working 
with law enforcement, these new rules offer powerful 
investigative tools. The FINRA Foundation also works with 
National Center for Victims of Crime on these very issues.
    The American Banker Association and AARP's BankSafe program 
also address the need of banks to train staff. BankSafe's 
program, will provide bankers with few resources to develop 
financial exploitation training, a downloadable training 
program for their use.
    Adult Protective Services has also developed a universal 
document demand for its financial exploitation which is in use 
in a few states where it has significantly reduced the time in 
which an APS worker receives financial records.

Technology

    Large scale frauds against older adults are often 
accompanied by a new technological development. Information 
collected from social media accounts of older adults often 
provides perpetrators access to execute a fraud. Grandparents 
can be especially vulnerable in this way. Gift cards, 
MoneyGrams and Western Union wires are all liable to misuse.
    These tools along with tech support frauds and spoofing can 
leave older adults vulnerable. Enlisting experts in technology 
and building partnerships can help move us closer to 
understanding those schemes and uncovering solutions.
    There are a few technology companies that work to fight 
elder financial exploitation. For example, EVERSAFE, a company 
founded specifically to address prevention of financial 
exploitation, uses complex alert systems to tell a customer if 
there is any unusual activity on any account. This type of 
technology can be used by older adults or loved ones to monitor 
accounts.

Conclusion

    The field of aging is making progress in addressing the 
important issue of elder financial exploitation. Collaborative 
work across law enforcement, including agents and prosecutors 
of all jurisdictions investigation and prosecuting cases is 
critical. Including the financial services industry and the 
tech industry as investigative partners or experts in those 
cases may help reduce the number of victims in larger cases. 
Large scale sweeps are always noticed by the perpetrators and 
serve as a signal that law enforcement will continue to bring 
cases of all sizes to protect older adults from financial 
exploitation, but law enforcement alone cannot solve this 
problem. A multidisciplinary approach is essential.
    Exploring public--private partnerships with the card and 
tech industry may also provide opportunities for prevention. 
Continuing to invest in technological innovations to address 
elder financial fraud and prevention. More technical training 
opportunities for state and local law enforcement will also 
help obtain an earlier response to a victim.
    Understanding the vulnerability of an older adult and 
addressing the risk of elder financial exploitation is 
complicated. The two highest risk factors for elder abuse and 
financial exploitation are social isolation and cognitive 
impairment. If we address those two factors in collaboration 
with law enforcement and public awareness efforts, we can build 
protective mechanisms in the prevention of elder financial 
exploitation.
    Thank you.
    
=======================================================================


                        Questions for the Record

=======================================================================

             U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging

     "Fighting Elder Fraud: Progress Made, Work to be Done"

                        January 16, 2019

                    Questions for the Record

                        Candice Simeoni

                      Senator Jacky Rosen

    Question:

    According to the 2019 Fraud Book, the top scam reported in 
Nevada to the Aging Committee's Fraud Hotline in 2018 was the 
Computer Tech Support Scam. Are there any educational materials 
available to the public about identifying and preventing 
computer tech support scams?

    Response:

    Thank you, Senator Jacky Rosen, for your question. I would 
also like to thank you for your commitment to making the future 
for our aging population a priority. I appreciate you sharing 
your experience as a committed caregiver for your older family 
members at the hearing. It is truly commendable.
    As I explained to you and the committee during my visit in 
January 2019, my York County Elder Abuse Task Force (YCEATF) 
has been such a great asset to me in my work throughout my 
career. I feel strongly that I would not have been as effective 
with my elder justice cases or my work in general without them.
    To answer your question, I have asked the group for input. 
This is an example of what I would do if I had a question on 
one of my cases where I wanted more knowledge and direction 
than what I could offer alone. I am proud to report the 
following, as a collaborative answer to your question: what 
educational materials are available to the public about 
identifying and preventing computer tech support scams:
    I have also noted the names of the members that provided 
response.

[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

             U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging

     "Fighting Elder Fraud: Progress Made, Work to be Done"

                        January 16, 2019

                    Questions for the Record

                    Honorable Derek Schmidt

                   Senator Richard Blumenthal

    Question:

    As you mentioned in your testimony, you coordinated with 
the DOJ for its sweeping federal and state enforcement actions 
taken against elder fraudsters last February. Can you share why 
you believe this enforcement is not only helpful to send a 
message to scammers, but also helpful to elders who may be at 
risk for getting targeted in the future? Have you seen an 
increased focus not only in Kansas, but around the country, in 
combatting elder fraud?

    Response:

    Enforcement sweeps, such as the one coordinated by the 
Department of Justice last year, help bring public attention to 
the issue. It puts scammers on notice that law enforcement 
officials across the country are diligently working these 
cases. It also reminds consumers that these bad actors are out 
there and that they should be on alert.
    We have seen an increased focus on combating elder fraud 
across the country. During my year as president of the National 
Association of Attorneys General (NAAG), we focused on this 
issue and found that many people across the country and across 
multiple disciplines and industries are interested in this 
issue. The growing population of senior citizens will make this 
an area of continued focus, which is why I'm pleased that NAAG 
has created a new standing committee on Elder Justice to 
coordinate these ongoing efforts.

    Question:

    In your testimony, you talked about the pervasive impact of 
robocalls and the much needed cooperation among 
telecommunication companies to develop SHAKEN/STIR standards to 
fight scammers in their use of spoofing, VoIP fraud, and other 
schemes. As you know, the rapid development of call spoofing 
technology has made it increasingly difficult for law 
enforcement agencies and the FTC to locate the call 
originators. How can we better educate and empower consumers 
against scams, caller-ID spoofing, and especially newer forms 
of spoofing like ``neighbor spoofing''? How can we ensure that 
educational materials actually get to the especially vulnerable 
populations--such as the elderly--who are targeted the most?

    Response:

    Finding the best method of communicating with seniors about 
scams is a challenge. We have tried many methods of 
communicating this information in Kansas. This includes our In 
Your Corner Kansas website, which I discussed during the 
hearing, as well as sending information out through the local 
media. Our office sends out a monthly ``Consumer Corner'' 
column to newspapers around the State, and I have a monthly 
segment on one of our local broadcast television stations to 
share information as well. We also regularly give consumer 
presentations to community groups, senior centers and other 
organizations to convey this information. We are also always 
looking for new ideas and methods to communicate with those who 
may be most likely to be targeted by scam artists.

                      Senator Jacky Rosen

    Question:

    According to the 2019 Fraud Book, the top scam reported in 
Nevada to the Aging Committee's Fraud Hotline in 2018 was the 
Computer Tech Support Scam. Are there any educational materials 
available to the public about identifying and preventing 
computer tech support scams?

    Response:

    As I mentioned in my response above to Sen. Blumenthal's 
question, we have information about these types of scams 
available on our consumer protection website at 
www.InYourCornerKansas.org. The Federal Trade Commission also 
provides educational materials on a wide range of scams and 
other consumer-protection issues on their website.
             U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging

     "Fighting Elder Fraud: Progress Made, Work to be Done"

                        January 16, 2019

                    Questions for the Record

                        Judith Kozlowski

                      Senator Jacky Rosen

    Question:

    According to the 2019 Fraud Book, the top scam reported in 
Nevada to the Aging Committee's Fraud Hotline in 2018 was the 
Computer Tech Support Scam. Are there any educational materials 
available to the public about identifying and preventing 
computer tech support scams?

    Response:

    I believe that the very best available educational 
materials to inform and protect consumers from computer tech 
support scams can be found at the Federal Trade Commission. The 
link is: www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0346-tech-support-scams.
    The information provided here is available in English and 
Spanish. It includes information about how the scam works, what 
to do if you get a call or a pop-up, what to do if you were 
scammed, and a special section on Refund Scams.
    AARP through its Fraud Watch Network also has some 
excellent consumer information about tech support scams. It is 
available at www.aarp.org/aarp/fraud--watch.
    There is also a video available through the AARP Fraud 
Watch Network called Hang Up on Tech Support Scams.
    There are also at least three You Tube videos that may be 
of interest and will inform consumers:

    --Tech Support Scams;

    --Consumers Warned About Tech Support Phone Scam; and

    --Don't Be a Victim of Tech Support Scams.
     
=======================================================================


                       Statements for the Record

=======================================================================

      Testimony of Thomas M. Flavin, Jr. and wife Elfriede Flavin
                     Effects of a Grandparents Scam

    September 17, 2018: Elfriede received a call from what she 
thought was our grandson Michael Montgomery.

    Michael: Hi grandma, are you busy, can I talk to you?
    Elfriede: I am never too busy to talk to you.
    Michael: I got into a little bit of trouble, can you help 
me out?
    Elfriede: What kind of trouble? Where are you?
    Michael: I am in Tennessee, I went with my friend because 
his father died from an aortic aneurism. Can you keep a secret?
    Elfriede: Yes, what happened?
    Michael: They had two beers and they caught me because he 
had a car accident and took me to jail for DUI. It is going to 
cost him $10,000.00 dollars to get out of jail.
    Elfriede: You should call your parents.
    Michael: I can't, I will tell them when I get home. I have 
a number for you to call Jade at 931-444-6433.

    The connection was terminated at this point. We had a 
discussion of the matter when I had returned from working at 
the American Legion. I can say at this time that Elfriede 
really thought she was talking to her grandson. I had no reason 
to doubt her.
    We called Jade at the given number and were referred to a 
man identifying himself as Mr. David Thomas, attorney, and a 
public defender for Michael.
    He explained, at what we both thought, in a profession 
manner, that my relative was involved in a two-car accident 
that involved personal injuries, and because he was from out of 
state, the district attorney thought he would be a possible 
flight risk and wanted him jailed for $10,000.00 bail money.
    As Michael was from out of state Mr. Thomas was having a 
hard time finding a bail bondsman and only could get a cash 
only bondsman because Michael had no credit. He also explained 
that Michael had suffered from a broken nose and required 
stitches. He also stated that if we agreed to put up our 
relative's bail we would be under a court ordered gag order and 
would not be able to discuss his case with anyone except his 
public defender and us as his only personal contact while our 
relative was incarcerated. Phone calls were restricted while he 
was incarcerated and then only in the presence of his attorney.
    As we had agreed with Michael to keep his secret we agreed 
to put up his bail and send the required money. We understood 
all through the process of the scam that we were putting up 
bail moneys that would be returned as soon as Michael's case 
number, K3466-201 was settled.
    We were then instructed to forward the money through FedEx, 
in care of Michael Montgomery, 205 Long Lane, Upper Darby, PA 
19082. The money had to be wrapped in carbon paper, to prevent 
X-ray scanning, and theft by FedEx workers. This was done, and 
the FedEx receipt faxed through Staples to 1-877-807-5822.
    19 September 2018: On 19 September we received a call from 
Attorney Thomas that there was a complication with Michael's 
case. The person injured in the vehicle that Michael had hit 
was driven by a woman who was pregnant and as a result of the 
accident she had lost the baby.
    Our relative was now being held on a possible vehicular 
homicide charge. Our relative was now possibly facing two to 
ten years in prison if convicted, and the bail was raised from 
$10,000.00 to $50,000.00. At this point we were essentially 
horrified, both for my grandson, who was looking for a career 
as a lawyer, and for the mother with the lost child. Elfriede 
was in tears.
    The situation of having my grandson in jail out of state, 
faced with a criminal charge and having to share the guilt of a 
woman losing her child because of an accident, we felt 
terrible. Being still under a court ordered gag order, we could 
talk to no one was excruciating.
    I personally had flash backs to when my younger brother 
during the late 1960's was incarcerated. Family history: Back 
in the late 1960's, New York State passed a helmet law for 
motorcyclist. Get caught riding without a helmet, you went to 
court and were fined. If you did not pull over when signaled 
and they caught you, you faced a flight to avoid prosecution 
charge. This happened to my brother. A local nightspot was 
picked by NYS trooper because of it being a place where people 
who were riding the early light Japanese motorcycles were 
hanging out at. At closing time my brother, aged 22, went about 
15 miles without his helmet, before he was captured while 
hiding in a used car lot that had no escape exit. During his 
arrest, one of the troopers stepped into an overgrown culvert 
and broke his ankle. The result was my brother was charged with 
assault, over and above the charges of ridding without a helmet 
and flight to avoid prosecution. My parents had to put their 
home up for bail and hire an attorney, at least $20 to 30,000 
at the time. My brother went to jail for six months, even 
though the assault charge was dropped. I felt the fact that as 
long I had the money to pay the extra bail money, I would pay 
it. Again, I went to my bank to take out the money where the 
bank manager had me sign an affidavit that I was not in so many 
words being taken advantage of. I was unhappy about the 
situation but said nothing. I was still under a court gag 
order.
    We wrapped the moneys as Mr. Thomas directed for FedEx. 
During our discussions, he asked me to verify that we had sent 
the $10,000.00 because the bondsman said they only found 
$5,000.00 in the FedEx envelope. I told him in no uncertain 
terms that I had put the money in as directed and if they say 
they have only $5,000.00, someone else had stolen it, or 
someone was lying. He responded the he was only checking with 
me. He knew that insurance would cover the loss. The money was 
sent via FedEx to: I/C/O Michael R. Montgomery, 635 W 170th ST, 
Apt 5D, New York, NY 10032, on 19 September 2018 and the FedEx 
receipt faxed through Staples to 1-877-807-5822.
    21 September 2018: On this date we received a call from Mr. 
Thomas informing us that my relative was now a free man with 
some conditions. He was not charged with assault; his DUI 
charge was reduced under the condition that he be enrolled in a 
DUI counseling program and upon completion of the program his 
record for the State of Tennessee would be expunged. Mr. Thomas 
was making arrangements to have him enrolled into a local 
program either near his home or college. For him to be released 
he would be required to pay for the damages to both vehicles 
that his personal vehicle insurance did not cover. That came to 
$30,544.00. We would receive back the bail money we had sent 
within a week to 10 days as soon as the state finished the 
paperwork. If and when we sent the money for the vehicle 
damages Mr. Thomas would let Michael stay at his residence and 
in the morning furnish him a bus ticket to either his home or 
back to college.
    During this process we did receive pleading calls from 
Michael promising to pay us back no matter what, so I went back 
to the bank. The $30.544.00 was sent through FedEx per 
instructions to: I/C/O Michael R. Montgomery, 108-20 46 Ave, 
Apt 3A, Corona, Queens, NY 11368.
    Then we waited for Michael's return to explain to his 
parents what had happened. About 28 September 2018 we received 
a call from Mr. Thomas that he was in a dilemma. Apparently, 
his law firm accused him of violating his Public Defenders 
status by him being hired by us as being Michael's personal 
attorney for the vehicle damage settlement, it was supposed to 
be a separate case and he needed $20.000.00 to rectify the 
situation or his career would be ruined. He didn't have the 
money and asked that as he successfully defended our relative 
that we give him the money so he could keep his license. I told 
him I was sorry, but I would not hire him as an attorney, I 
only agreed to pay for bail and vehicle damages. If he wanted 
to be belatedly retained as Michael's attorney, he must call 
Michaels parents. They would have to be the responsible party. 
He did not sound happy and that is the last we heard from him.
    We then defied the court's gag order and called our 
daughter to inform her that Michael was in jail in Tennessee 
and need a lawyer right away. Right away after talking with my 
daughter, Michael's mother, we found we had been thoroughly 
scammed.
    At first, we felt foolish, how could this happen to us? It 
seemed so real. We dealt with thoughtful caring people, we 
thought. Mr. Dave Thomas acted the professional, he obviously 
knew more about court procedures that we did.
    It seemed more people, including my own children knew about 
the Grandparent scam than we did. We watch Dr. Phil and knew 
about African love scams and were familiar with some 
investments scams, but if there was a scam of grandparents 
involving their loved ones, it wasn't anything that we 
recollected during the whole process of being scammed.
    I am a Department of the Army civilian retiree after 
twenty-five years of service with the Army Reserve. The thrift 
savings plan that I paid with matching federal money has been 
effectively lost.
    We are bent but we are not broken, we will survive this 
incident. In a way it feels like a sad death in the family. If 
you are not busy thoughts creep into your head, why, how could 
people do this to other people, I gave away $80,544.00, how 
could I be so stupid. An incident or an innocent conversation 
can set of feeling of sadness bordering on depression. You have 
to fight it and not let it get you down. We realize we will 
never see the money. We still have a mortgage, two 10-year-old 
cars, two cats and our family.
            The Honorable Derek Schmidt, Attorney General, 
                    State of Kansas, Topeka, Kansas

                          Attachments A and B

    Two comment letters to the FCC to end illegal robocalls, 
signed by 30 and 35 state attorneys general, respectively.

                              Attachment C

    Testimony in Support of H.R. 3891, presented to House 
Committee on Energy and Commerce, Subcommittee on Health, 
September 5, 2018.

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