[Senate Hearing 116-477]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 116-477

 LEGISLATIVE HEARING TO REVIEW S. 3894, THE GROWING CLIMATE SOLUTIONS 
                              ACT OF 2020

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE
                               
                       COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
                        NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                     ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             JUNE 24, 2020

                               __________

                       Printed for the use of the
           Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry
           
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       Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov/
       
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                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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           COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY


                     PAT ROBERTS, Kansas, Chairman
MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky            DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas               PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota            SHERROD BROWN, Ohio
JONI ERNST, Iowa                     AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota
CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        MICHAEL BENNET, Colorado
MIKE BRAUN, Indiana                  KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, New York
CHARLES GRASSLEY, Iowa               ROBERT P. CASEY, Jr., Pennsylvania
JOHN THUNE, South Dakota             TINA SMITH, Minnesota
DEB FISCHER, Nebraska                RICHARD DURBIN, Illinois
KELLY LOEFFLER, Georgia

             James A. Glueck, Jr., Majority Staff Director
                DaNita M. Murray, Majority Chief Counsel
                    Jessica L. Williams, Chief Clerk
               Joseph A. Shultz, Minority Staff Director
               Mary Beth Schultz, Minority Chief Counsel
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                        Wednesday, June 24, 2020

                                                                   Page

Hearing:

Legislative Hearing to Review S. 3894, The Growing Climate 
  Solutions Act of 2020..........................................     1

                              ----------                              

                    STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS

Roberts, Hon. Pat, U.S. Senator from the State of Kansas, 
  Chairman, Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry....     1
Stabenow, Hon. Debbie, U.S. Senator from the State of Michigan...     2

                               WITNESSES

Bible, Brent, Corn and Soybean Producer, Farmer Advisor, 
  Environmental Defense Fund, Lafayette, IN......................     5
Duvall, Zippy, President, American Farm Bureau Federation, 
  Greensboro, GA.................................................     7
Larew, Rob, President, National Farmers Union, Greenville, WV....     8
Weller, Jason Vice President, Truterra, Land O'lakes, Inc., Arden 
  Hills, MN......................................................     9
                              
                              ----------                              

                                APPENDIX

Prepared Statements:
    Bible, Brent.................................................    34
    Duvall, Zippy................................................    38
    Larew, Rob...................................................    43
    Weller, Jason................................................    49

Document(s) Submitted for the Record:
Stabenow, Hon. Debbie:
    Ecosystem Services Market Consortium, letter of support......    58
    Growth Energy, letter of support.............................    64
    Indigo Agriculture, letter of support........................    66
    National Milk Producers Federation, letter of support........    69
    The National Pork Producers Council, letter of support.......    72
    Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, letter of support................    73
    Sustainable Food Policy Alliance, letter of support..........    75

Question and Answer:
Bible, Brent:
    Written response to questions from Hon. Pat Roberts..........    80
    Written response to questions from Hon. Debbie Stabenow......    80
    Written response to questions from Hon. Amy Klobuchar........    81
Duvall, Zippy:
    Written response to questions from Hon. Pat Roberts..........    83
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....    83
Larew, Rob:
    Written response to questions from Hon. Pat Roberts..........    85
    Written response to questions from Hon. Debbie Stabenow......    85
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....    86
    Written response to questions from Hon. Robert P. Casey, Jr..    87
Weller, Jason:
    Written response to questions from Hon. Pat Roberts..........    89
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....    89
    Written response to questions from Hon. Robert P. Casey, Jr..    90

 
 LEGISLATIVE HEARING TO REVIEW S. 3894, THE GROWING CLIMATE SOLUTIONS 
                              ACT OF 2020

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, JUNE 24, 2020

                                       U.S. Senate,
         Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:09 a.m., in 
SD-G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Pat Roberts, 
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Roberts, Boozman, Hoeven, Ernst, Hyde-Smith, 
Braun, Grassley, Thune, Fischer, Loeffler, Stabenow, Brown, 
Klobuchar, Bennet, Gillibrand, Casey, and Smith.

 STATEMENT OF HON. PAT ROBERTS, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF 
KANSAS, CHAIRMAN, U.S. COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND 
                            FORESTRY

    Chairman Roberts. I call this hearing of the U.S. Senate 
Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry to order.
    Today, we will hear stakeholder perspectives on S. 3894, 
the Growing Climate Solutions Act introduced by Senator Braun 
and cosponsored by our Committee Ranking Member, Senator 
Stabenow.
    I want to thank our witnesses for their willingness to 
participate in our first-ever hearing conducted in this 
fashion, where some participants are here in person and 
obviously some are joining us remotely through technology.
    I want to thank Senator Braun especially for his hard work, 
and you would expect that from somebody who is a farmer and a 
forester from Indiana. Mike, thank you very much.
    Senate S. 3894 would assist growers in monetizing voluntary 
conservation practices on their farms, ranches, forests, and 
businesses. This legislation establishes a program at the 
Department of Agriculture to certify third-party technical 
service providers who assist farmers to capture carbon credits 
through voluntary conservation practices.
    The challenges that have confronted the entire food value 
chain during the COVID-19 pandemic have demonstrated the vital 
importance of stable and resilient food production. Over the 
past several months, farmers and ranchers have continued to do 
their work and the agricultural value chain continues to 
operate, though not without severe challenges.
    Agricultural productivity has largely been stable. Our cows 
continue to graze in pastures and be finished in feed yards in 
Kansas and all other States. Crops continue to be planted and 
harvested. These kind of things do not wait.
    At the same time, we have seen unprecedented disruption to 
the economy, and limits to our commuting, vacationing, and 
international travel have resulted in drastic, short-term 
declines in global greenhouse emissions.
    A recent study published in the Journal ``Nature Climate 
Change'' has estimated that our global emissions have been cut 
by 17 percent as human travel during the global pandemic has 
slowed.
    Maintaining the health of our planet for future generations 
is, of course, paramount, so is feeding the billions of people 
that populate the earth today and in the years ahead.
    In order for these two distinct needs to be met, there must 
be meaningful acknowledgment and support for the role 
technology plays in feeding more and more hungry people. 
Growing demand and production must be balanced with 
consideration for impacts on soil, water, and other natural 
resources.
    I want to emphasize the importance of accurate data in any 
climate-related discussion. How much have improved farming 
technologies and practices already accomplished in sequestering 
carbon? What roles should the Department of Agriculture have in 
gathering data and conducting analysis on greenhouse emissions?
    There is certainly no other agency or committee in Congress 
that prioritizes and understands farmers, our producers, 
ranchers, private foresters, and rural agriculture businesses 
as well as the Department of Agriculture and our Agriculture 
Committees.
    Farmers and ranchers manage unique risk, such as the 
weather, the global marketplace, agriculture production, 
tariffs. Further, regulatory burdens can add costs and hinder 
commonsense innovation.
    Today, we will learn more about the actions that are 
already under way in the agriculture sector to address some of 
these challenges and opportunities.
    With that, I recognize the Ranking Member of our Committee, 
Senator Stabenow, for any remarks.

STATEMENT OF HON. DEBBIE STABENOW, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE 
                          OF MICHIGAN

    Senator Stabenow. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I really 
appreciate your holding this important hearing today, and it is 
my great pleasure to be partnering with Senator Braun in this 
effort.
    Our world has changed drastically since the last time this 
Committee met. That is for sure. The COVID-19 crisis has 
affected every family in America. It has also tested the 
resiliency of our food supply and the strength of our farmers.
    During this crisis, Congress has worked to address the 
countless challenges facing our food system. While we have 
passed several important relief packages, there is still more 
to do.
    Mr. Chairman, I look forward to working with you to pass 
additional legislation that supports our families, farmers, and 
essential food supply chain workers in these difficult times.
    We should also look for ways to support and fill in the 
gaps that remain in our supply chain such as those included in 
my Food Supply Protection Act, which I introduced earlier this 
year that I hope we will have an opportunity to discuss.
    As we continue to address these urgent challenges, this 
crisis has also underscored the importance of providing long-
term stability for our farmers who face uncertainty every 
single day.
    I often say that agriculture is the riskiest business there 
is. Farmers know all too well how a sudden shift in the weather 
can change everything in the blink of an eye. Unfortunately, 
the climate crisis has caused these extremes to happen more and 
more often.
    While farmers are uniquely affected by the climate crisis, 
they are also a critically important part of the solution. With 
the right support, our producers can cut down on their 
emissions and benefit from the adoption of practices to store 
more carbon in soil and trees. This is good for the environment 
and good for the farmer's bottom line.
    The 2018 Farm Bill created new opportunities for climate-
smart agriculture, including the landmark Soil Health 
Demonstration trials. However, much more is needed.
    That is why Senator Braun and I introduced the bipartisan 
Growing Climate Solutions Act, along with our colleagues 
Senator Graham and Senator Whitehouse, to help farmers and 
foresters scale up sustainable practices and make money through 
voluntary carbon markets.
    In the coming days, I am really pleased that 
Representatives Spanberger and Bacon will introduce this 
bipartisan bill in the House. Senator Braun and I have both 
been working with them for that to happen. We are very pleased 
that we will soon have a bipartisan bill in the House of 
Representatives.
    Carbon markets offer agricultural producers an opportunity 
to create additional revenue streams. With all the uncertainty 
from COVID-19, trade, and weather, farmers need new market 
opportunities now more than ever.
    At the same time, companies across the country are looking 
for ways to offset their emissions through carbon markets. That 
means farmers and foresters have an exciting opportunity to be 
rewarded for the voluntary, sustainable steps they are taking 
through generating and selling carbon credits.
    For example, Detroit's own General Motors paid for an 
agricultural carbon project like this based on grasslands in 
North Dakota a few years ago, one of the first of its kind. Our 
bill will help the corn and soybean farmer in Michigan who is 
hearing about companies like GM and is asking me how they can 
have a credible process to store their carbon and have it 
measured accurately. They want to know how to get started.
    That is what the Growing Climate Solutions Act does. The 
bill will set up a certification program at the USDA that will 
identify trusted outside experts for farmers to work with to 
help them through the carbon credit process. This will 
jumpstart climate-smart projects on farms, ranches, and private 
forests all across the country.
    Producers can easily navigate a new one-stop-shop at USDA's 
website where they can learn about carbon markets and the type 
of practices farmers can adopt to get paid. USDA-certified 
technical assistance providers can help farmers decide what 
practices will work for them. After the practices are in place 
and a USDA-certified third party verifies that they followed 
all the appropriate procedures, they can enter the marketplace 
and sell carbon credits to a private buyer.
    In order to start addressing the climate crisis in 
agriculture, I believe we need to focus first on voluntary, 
producer-led, and bipartisan policies that have broad support.
    The Growing Climate Solutions Act has the support of over 
50 farm and environmental groups, including the American Farm 
Bureau, the National Farmers Union, Land O'Lakes, and the 
Environmental Defense Fund, whom will be sharing their 
perspectives today.
    Mr. Chairman, we have received letters and testimony from 
numerous companies and organizations expressing support for the 
bill, and I would ask that all of these be submitted for the 
record.
    Chairman Roberts. Without objection, so ordered.

    [The letters can be found on pages 58 through 77 in the 
appendix.]

    Senator Stabenow. Thank you.
    Our farmers know that sustainability and profitability go 
hand in hand. This bill will help farmers improve their 
operations and build new revenue streams, all while addressing 
the root cause of the serious climate crisis.
    I look forward to discussing this commonsense bipartisan 
bill today, and I look forward to continuing, Mr. Chairman, to 
work with you, Senator Braun and all of our colleagues to see 
that it is enacted as soon as possible.
    Thank you so much.
    Chairman Roberts. Thank you, Senator.
    I welcome our panel of witnesses to the Committee this 
morning, and I recognize Senator Braun for introducing our 
first witness, Mr. Brent Bible.
    Senator Braun. Thank you, Chairman Roberts.
    I appreciate the Committee's desire to consider this 
legislation, and I am proud to introduce Brent Bible to the 
Committee this morning.
    Brent is a first-generation Hoosier farmer who operates 
Stillwater Farms, a 5,000-acre grain production farm in 
Lafayette, Indiana. Since returning to the farm in 2007, Brent 
has been a leader in modern sustainable farming. He was an 
early adopter of cover crops and uses modern technologies to 
reduce fertilizer use and carefully managed soils.
    In fact, Brent was instrumental in the development of the 
Growing Climate Solutions Act itself, as he understands the 
benefits that access to carbon markets can bring for American 
agriculture.
    Over the last six years, Stillwater Farms has partnered 
with the National Corn Growers Soil Health Partnership as a 
demonstration farm to continue working on these techniques.
    Brent is also farmer advisor to the Environmental Defense 
Fund.
    Mr. Chairman, as a fellow Hoosier, I am looking forward to 
Brent Bible's testimony this morning. Thank you.
    Chairman Roberts. Our next witness is no stranger to the 
Committee, President Zippy Duvall of the American Farm Bureau 
Federation, a third-generation farmer from Greensboro, Georgia. 
He raises both cattle and broilers on his operations. Zippy has 
served as president of the AFBF for over four years. He has 
helped lead their policy initiatives on issues like agriculture 
sustainability.
    Prior to his current role, Zippy has a history of serving 
farmers through roles in both the American and Georgia Farm 
Bureaus.
    Thank you for being here, Mr. Duvall.
    Our next witness will be introduced by our distinguished 
Ranking Member.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I am pleased to welcome Rob Larew to the Committee this 
morning. Rob was elected National Farmers Union's 15th 
president earlier this year and previously served as NFU's 
senior vice president of Public Policy and Communications. 
Prior to joining NFU, Rob was the staff director of the House 
Agriculture Committee under the leadership of Chairman Collin 
Peterson, where he oversaw the panel's efforts during the 2008 
and 2014 Farm Bills.
    Rob was raised on a dairy farm in Greenville, West 
Virginia, and we are very happy to have him with us this 
morning.
    Welcome.
    Chairman Roberts. Our next witness is Mr. Jason Weller, our 
final witness this morning. He is the vice president of 
Truterra, LLC, which serves as the sustainability business of 
Land O'Lakes. In his role, he helps develop conservation 
solutions for the cooperative's members and owners. Jason is no 
stranger to Washington, having served in roles in the USDA's 
Natural Resource Conservation Service, the White House Office 
of Management and Budget, and two House committees.
    I welcome all the witnesses, and, Mr. Bible, why don't you 
start us off.

  STATEMENT OF BRENT BIBLE, CORN AND SOYBEAN PRODUCER, FARMER 
    ADVISOR, ENVIRONMENTAL DEFENSE FUND, LAFAYETTE, INDIANA

    Mr. Bible. Thank you Chairman Roberts, Ranking Member 
Stabenow, Senator Braun, and all the members of this Committee 
for the invitation to testify before you today. I applaud you 
for making sense of this new normal. I know this is a first 
time for you in terms of the way this hearing is done. This is 
the first time I have testified before a committee, so it does 
not seem any different to me.
    What I will say is that as farmers, when we come up to a 
fence, we do not stop or turn around. We find the gate and walk 
through it, and I think that is what you have done by 
continuing this as normally as possible throughout this 
process.
    As a first-generation farmer, I see myself as a typical but 
fairly representative and vital part of the food supply chain. 
My business partner and I operate Stillwater Farms, as Senator 
Braun mentioned, growing corn and soybeans mainly for seed 
production, ethanol, and food products over about 5,000 acres 
in three counties in west central Indiana.
    I am also a member of the Indiana Corner Growers 
Association and Indiana Farm Bureau and by extension their 
national organizations, and I appreciate their support for 
farmers and for the work we are trying to accomplish today.
    I am educated with a bachelor's of science from Purdue 
University in ag economics. Purdue taught me very well to be 
analytical, to be data driven, and to make decisions based on 
economic science.
    Globally, farmers are more challenged than ever. We see 
increasing demand for our products but face massive headwinds, 
including trade barriers and climate change, similar to what 
Senator Stabenow alluded to earlier.
    As these pressures mount, we continue to try to improve on 
how we manage our lands so that we can remain in business, and 
that is what sustainability is all about, doing more with less, 
finding ways to be economically sustainable and environmentally 
sound as well.
    On my farm, we invest in conservation practices that lead 
to soil health, water quality, air quality, and reduced 
greenhouse gas emissions. This interest in investment led us to 
become a member of the Soil Health Partnership, a partnership 
between the National Corn Growers Association, Environmental 
Defense Fund, and other critical stakeholders.
    My farm has spent the last six years conducting research 
trials on soil health and farming practices that benefit the 
environment in my area and in the world around me.
    I have also spent that time as a voluntary advisor, farmer 
advisor to the Environmental Defense Fund. What is interesting 
there is that we many times share different perspectives on 
farming and agriculture in general, but we find ways to work 
together to create good solutions that are complementary to 
both entities, and I think that is an important distinction to 
make, especially in today's environment.
    These practices and initiatives that we reach will not 
reach a broader farming audience if we cannot figure out how to 
scale up the current rates of adoption in conservation 
practices, and that is why I like the Growing Climate Solutions 
Act. It opens the door for farmer participation in a market-
based system that rewards farmers for implementing conservation 
practices on their farms if they choose to do so.
    Because of these results, we need Congress to step in and 
provide policies that incentivize further adoptions, and we 
have great programs at USDA that provide cost share for farmers 
to implement conservation practices, but government programs 
are not the only solution to our problem. We need real market-
based options that allow farmers to individually make a choice 
and participate and then see the benefits to their economic 
bottom line.
    I urge the Committee to examine this bill and work together 
to pass legislation that will put my farm and environment both 
on a path to success.
    Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Bible can be found on page 
34 in the appendix.]

    Chairman Roberts. President Duvall.

  STATEMENT OF ZIPPY DUVALL, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FARM BUREAU 
                FEDERATION, GREENSBORO, GEORGIA

    Mr. Duvall. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member 
Stabenow. I want to thank you all for the opportunity to visit 
with you today through the internet. We appreciate the 
opportunity.
    I also want to thank you and other members of the Committee 
for all the things that you have done for American farmers and 
ranchers during this very difficult time. With all the market 
disruptions due to COVID-19, the pandemic, and the already 
distressed farm economy, keeping our farmers and ranchers in 
production is vital to our farm, our food security, and our 
national security, as most all you members of the Committee 
already know.
    Thank you for supporting the measures to assist our farm 
businesses.
    At the same time farmers and ranchers are working to keep 
our food on our plates, they continue to make great strides in 
sustainability, which brings me to the topic for today's 
hearing. I would like to provide a short snapshot view of 
agriculture's leadership in sustainability farming practices.
    American agriculture accounts for less than 10 percent of 
the total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, far less than 
transportation, electrical generation, and other industries.
    Total carbon sink efforts by forestland management, land 
converted to forests, grasslands, and management of wetlands 
more than offset agriculture's total greenhouse gas emissions.
    Farmers continue to produce more food and fiber and energy 
with more efficiency than our parents and our grandparents did 
over two generations ago.
    We have increased production 270 percent without using more 
resources. In fact, we would have to have nearly 100 million 
more acres in 1990 to match the same production that we had in 
2018. Our advancements in sustainability are due to the 
adoption of technologies, and they are due to farmers 
overwhelmingly participating in voluntary incentive-based 
conservation programs.
    As we continue to navigate trade challenges and the 
economic impacts that COVID-19 brings to American farmers and 
ranchers, we also face a very difficult headwind, yet we remain 
committed to smart farming, whether our farms are passed on to 
us by our parents or whether we started our own farms. Our 
farms and our land is our heritage.
    Every farmer I know wants to leave their land, the air, and 
the water and also the farm and ranch businesses in better 
shape, better condition, than they found it. In fact, to 
achieve that goal, Congress must protect agriculture from undue 
burdensome regulation, and also we have to respect farmers' and 
ranchers' ability to innovate and solve problems.
    The Farm Bureau's grassroots developed policy supports 
market-based incentives and compensation for farmers for 
planting crops and adopting farming practices that keep carbon 
in the soil. That is why we welcome opportunities to 
participate in emerging carbon markets.
    The Growing Climate Solutions Act would create a certified 
program at USDA to help solve technical barriers to farmers. 
The forestland owners' participation in carbon credit markets 
are important, and the bill also provides the Secretary of 
Agriculture an advisory council that is made up of agricultural 
experts, scientists, producers, and others to ensure the 
certification program works for all participants.
    The Growing Climate Solutions Act seeks to provide more 
clarity and guidance for farmers and ranchers who want to 
provide the ecosystem services that more and more consumers and 
businesses are demanding. This builds upon American 
agriculture's strong foundation of environmental stewardship 
and innovation.
    I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding today's 
hearing, and I will be glad to take any questions after the 
other panelists speak. Thank you for having me today.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Duvall can be found on page 
38 in the appendix.]

    Chairman Roberts. Thank you, Zippy. Our next witness is Rob 
Larew.

  STATEMENT OF ROB LAREW, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL FARMERS UNION, 
                   GREENVILLE, WEST VIRGINIA

    Mr. Larew. Good morning, Chairman Roberts, Ranking Member 
Stabenow, and members of the Committee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today.
    I am president of the National Farmers Union. We work to 
ensure that farm families and their communities are respected, 
valued, and enjoy economic prosperity and social justice. Thank 
you for highlighting agriculture's role as part of the solution 
to climate change. Even in this time of great uncertainty in 
public health, the economy, and our society in general, we 
cannot overlook this topic. We know that climate change is the 
single greatest long-term challenge for family farmers and 
ranchers, rural communities, and global food security.
    The changing climate is affecting all aspects of our farms; 
however, we also know that farmers and ranchers, if provided 
the right tools, can help to reduce atmospheric carbon and 
other greenhouse gases.
    National Farmers Union supports the Growing Climate 
Solutions Act, as it will help family farmers and ranchers 
engage in the market opportunities presented by carbon 
sequestration and would lend legitimacy to these voluntary 
carbon markets.
    With strong private-sector participation, carbon markets 
can create a sustainable revenue stream for farmers. These 
systems allow companies to offset some of their emissions 
through the purchase of sequestration credits. This idea is not 
new. Carbon markets work.
    In 2006, we partnered with North Dakota Farmers Union to 
create the National Farmers Union Carbon Credit Program, which 
served as an aggregator. Credits were earned by farmers or 
landowners on a per-acre basis with the use of no-till and 
reduced till cropping, long-term grass seeing, rangeland 
management, and forestry practices. These credits then were 
sold on the Chicago Climate Exchange, which was a voluntary 
carbon market. At its peak, the program was the largest 
aggregator of agricultural soil credits in the United States 
and distributed more than $7.4 million to nearly 4,000 farmers 
across five million acres.
    Between 2006 and 2010, these farms sequestered about $7.6 
million tons of carbon. Unfortunately, in 2010, the Chicago 
Climate Exchange folded, but corporate, consumer, and farmer 
interest in the concept remains. The Government must encourage 
these activities while ensuring adequate protection for 
farmers. There are many ideas on the best way to do this.
    For example, a member of this Committee, Senator Bennet, 
supports that farmers and ranchers should have access to a 
carbon sequestration tax credit as Congress has enacted for 
other industries. Others are proposing that USDA create a 
carbon bank within the Commodity Credit Corporation that would 
serve as another buyer of carbon offsets from farmers.
    A combination of these ideas is needed to ensure a stable 
and effective carbon market. Climate legislation should also 
consider protections for farmers from bad actors, faulty market 
efforts, and corporate consolidation, and include a variety of 
tools that address the needs of the full range of farms.
    Furthermore, we support growth in the use of renewable 
fuels, including ethanol, as part of a climate program. When 
compared to petroleum and gasoline, the use of ethanol blends 
reduces emissions of carbon monoxide, particulate matter, air 
toxic chemicals, and greenhouse gases.
    In conclusion, there should be no uncertainty about the 
role of family farmers and ranchers in addressing the climate 
crisis. We stand ready to be part of the economy-wide solution 
to reduce total greenhouse gas emissions.
    Thank you to the authors of the Growing Climate Solutions 
Act, Senators Braun and Stabenow, for their leadership. The 
National Farmers Union looks forward to working with this 
Committee to ensure this and any climate legislation meets our 
needs.
    Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Larew can be found on page 
43 in the appendix.]

    Chairman Roberts. Thank you, Mr. Larew.
    Jason Weller.

   STATEMENT OF JASON WELLER, VICE PRESIDENT, TRUTERRA, LAND 
             O'LAKES, INC., ARDEN HILLS, MINNESOTA

    Mr. Weller. Good morning, Chairman Roberts, Ranking Member 
Stabenow, members of the Committee. Thank you very much for the 
invitation to Land O'Lakes to join the proceedings this 
morning, and it is great to be back before the Committee. It is 
great to see you all.
    Before I begin, I just want to also compliment the 
Committee for its leadership and it support for farmers and for 
agriculture during uncertain times in the midst of the COVID 
pandemic as well as the following economic crisis that farm 
families are now having to confront and get through. I know the 
Committee--on behalf of my cooperative members and the family 
of Land O'Lakes, we really appreciate the support of this 
Committee as well as the ongoing support we know this Committee 
will provide farm families in the coming months.
    My name is Jason Weller, and I serve as vice president at 
Truterra. I know many on the Committee know about Land O'Lakes, 
but it bears repeating that Land O'Lakes is a farmer 
cooperative as well as a cooperative of agricultural retailers. 
Through our family of agricultural retailer owners and 
thousands of farmer members, the Land O'Lakes enterprise 
touches about half of the harvested acres across the United 
States, and at Truterra, we are in the sustainability business 
as part of that cooperative system. We work with our 
progressive leading agricultural retailers to design and 
deliver sustainability services to their farmer customers, and 
we work with world-class food companies as well as leading 
conservation organizations in the United States and USDA to 
provide a complementary, voluntary approach to help farmers 
adopt conservation practices in their fields.
    At its core, the Growing Climate Solutions Act is really 
about resiliency of both farmers as well as rural communities, 
and its resiliency is both an economic component of these 
farmers and rural communities as well as, of course, the 
environmental resiliency of those farms.
    The bill anticipates a future class of commodities; in this 
case, environmental commodities, greenhouse gas credits. These 
credits have an opportunity to help farmers and ranchers to 
diversity their operations, generate new sources of income, 
while at the same time receive financial and technical support 
to adopt the practices and systems and machinery that 
ultimately will help them literally and figuratively weather 
the results of a changing climate.
    The way this is possible, I am really excited about and we 
are passionate about at Truterra and with our family of 
agricultural retailers. It is the advent of that we are on a 
cusp of a revolution in precision conservation. It is going to 
be through amalgamation of data, machine learning, artificial 
intelligence, as well as working and forging that information 
with USDA practice standards and technology and modeling, also 
in putting all that information in the hands of farmers and 
their trusted agronomic advisors to make the best decisions on 
the farm, to enhance that farm's profitability, improve its 
efficiency, and ultimately improve the quality of the natural 
resources on that farm. The only say this is going to be 
possible, ultimately, is to have access, access to the 
internet.
    That is why Land O'Lakes is proud through the American 
Project to be working with a broad array of organizations, 
including the American Farm Bureau Federation, to increase and 
expand broadband access in rural America, to be able to bring 
to market the promise and potential of not just this new class 
of environmental commodities, but also provide critical access 
to health care and education and other economic opportunities.
    We commend Senator Stabenow, Senator Braun, and the other 
cosponsors of this legislation for their leadership and vision 
to continue the conversation but also to identify core building 
blocks that we believe will unlock these solutions to scale 
this new class of commodities for farmers and ranchers to take 
advantage of.
    I know I speak for my Land O'Lakes colleagues and the 
families of our farmers and agricultural retailers that we 
stand ready to work with the Committee and ultimately help 
bring these solutions to our farm community and to help 
agriculture succeed.
    Thanks very much, and I look forward to the conversation.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Weller can be found on page 
49 in the appendix.]

    Chairman Roberts. We thank you, Jason.
    Questions. President Duvall, your testimony includes the 
compelling statistic that U.S. agriculture production has 
increased by 270 percent since the mid-1900's. I do not know of 
any other part of our economy that has experienced that, and 
that is thanks to our farmers and ranchers and growers.
    As climate change continues to gain attention in the United 
States and around the world--that is an understatement--do you 
believe it is appropriate for benchmarks established under S. 
3894 or any carbon trading proposal to account for this 
progress?
    Mr. Duvall. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I really believe in that. I 
think our farmers have led the way for years and years in 
getting out ahead of climate change, doing things on their 
operations for many years now, to protect natural resources on 
our farms.
    Just like I said in my statement, it is all farmers' desire 
to leave our farm, the air and the water and everything around 
our farm, in better shape than what we found it, and we do that 
through technologies that are being delivered to us through the 
research and development dollars that are being spent.
    To account for what we have already done is very, very 
important.
    Chairman Roberts. I appreciate that.
    Jason Weller, my home State of Kansas is one of the most 
livestock-dense States in the country. We have long been home 
to millions of head of cattle raised for beef, and in recent 
years, we have also seen growth in both dairy and swine 
production.
    Can you describe some of the most impactful environmental 
conservation practices that livestock producers are employing 
within your livestock and feed business unit?
    Mr. Weller. It is a twofold component. It is first, of 
course, supporting the farmers and coming up with on their 
dairy operations or livestock operations with the plan for how 
you feed the cattle and the livestock and the animals, but also 
how you manage the manure.
    At Land O'Lakes, we have a lot of experience with this. We 
have examples of how our dairy producers are providing, I 
think, real leadership. For example, one of our producers in 
Pennsylvania on Reinford Farms, they have installed and are 
operating a very significant methane digester, and this 
digester is beyond just handling the manure on their operation. 
It is also taking in the food waste from up to 15 other grocery 
stores in its surrounding community. It is really a community 
digester, and this digester is ultimately generating 
significant energy. Over the course of the year, it is 
generating the equivalent to 1.5 million kilowatt hours of 
electricity, which is enough to power 100 homes.
    What I think is relevant to this conversation, over the 
last decade, that one digester, that one dairy operation, has 
offset the greenhouse gas emissions equivalent to the land area 
of 79,000 acres of forestland in the United States in terms of 
total carbon sequestration potential and benefit. That is just 
one of our dairy producers.
    Ultimately, it is a combination of the feed. It is the 
agronomy practices that the farmers and the producers use to 
grow that feed and how the feed is managed, but then it is also 
the combination of conservation practices that farmers are 
using to manage the manure and turning that manure not just 
into a waste but ultimately into, hopefully, generating co-
benefits, new revenue opportunities, as well as limiting the 
environmental impact of that waste stream.
    Chairman Roberts. We thank you.
    Zippy, back to you. Does your organization envision a role 
for the U.S. Department of Agriculture in any future carbon 
trading policy discussions? Obviously, I think the answer to 
that is yes. Compared to other Federal agencies, do you think 
the Agriculture Department is best able to lead any data 
collection and analysis that might be required? Do you have any 
thoughts on which Federal agency can provide the best available 
science on the reduction of carbon for various agriculture 
activities?
    Mr. Duvall. Yes. We think that any discussion around 
agriculture and climate change and any program that might be 
introduced through Congress should be through USDA. USDA is the 
one that understands agriculture. Our farmers and ranchers 
trust USDA. They know the people that are in their local 
communities that work for them. For farmers to participate in 
any voluntary program, they have to have that trust. I think it 
is essential that all that happen within USDA and through the 
discussions with Congress.
    Chairman Roberts. We thank you, Zippy. Thank you very much.
    I now recognize Senator Stabenow for any questions she may 
have within the five-minute rule.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I heard that, 
five-minute rule. Okay.
    Well, thank you to all of you for your testimony. and Mr. 
Duvall, we very much appreciate the Farm Bureau's strong 
support for the Growing Climate Solutions Act and the fact that 
you are with us today.
    In your testimony, you talked about the financial 
opportunity for your members in gaining better access to the 
greenhouse gas marketplace that we are focused on in the bill. 
I wonder if you might just speak a little bit more about the 
importance in these uncertain times for producers to really 
think about new markets and new revenue streams.
    Mr. Duvall. Sure, Ms. Stabenow. I compare what we are going 
through to what I have experienced as a young man during the 
1980's. Of course, this crisis that we are in has not quite 
reached that level, and hopefully, it will not. Back then, we 
were all scrambling, looking for something to generate income 
for our family farm so that we could stay there, and back then, 
it was diversification that came into the picture.
    Now as we start discussing climate and policy around 
climate change and creating other markets, I think it is 
vitally important that our farmers be able to not only take 
advantage of these markets that could be available to us but 
also have the opportunity to look back and see all the things 
that we have done in the past so that we can make our farms 
sustainable for the future.
    What is important to the American people is that we all 
continue to keep our family farms there, and the only way we 
are going to do that is to make sure that they can make a 
profit and raise their families there and keep their lands up 
and take care of them. The way to do that is to find other 
revenues because so many things depend on trade. It depends on 
research. It depends on an extension delivering that to us, and 
of course, the work that we are doing on trying to take 
broadband across America to rural communities is really, really 
important. What you mention is vitally important to the 
sustainability of our family farm.
    Senator Stabenow. Well, thanks so much, and I think our 
Committee across the board agrees with you about rural 
broadband and what needs to happen as well. We put substantial 
increases and authorized funding in the Farm Bill. We need to 
push to make sure that we are creating that connectivity across 
the country.
    I certainly know in Michigan, this is a major issue. Thank 
you for mentioning that.
    Mr. Weller, we are really glad you are back before the 
Committee and appreciate that you have been a real innovator in 
this space and now working for a company that is very focused 
on sustainability.
    Could you speak a little more about the portion of your 
testimony where you remarked that without this legislation, 
U.S. agriculture risks falling behind its global competitors.
    Mr. Weller. The journey for sustainability at Land O'Lakes 
actually began on the dairy side. We are a 98-, almost 99-year-
old dairy cooperative, and it was several years back that our 
customers started asking pretty in-depth questions around 
sustainability and then increasingly had expectations that we 
could share the data around the practices and ultimately the 
outcomes of the management activities our dairy producers used 
on their dairy. That was not just for U.S.-based companies. 
Those are global companies that we provide dairy ingredients 
to.
    We have seen that now expand into the grain markets, and as 
I mentioned in my opening and in my testimony, we partner with 
world-class brands, including Campbell's Soup and with Tate & 
Lyle and Nestle Purina, and in working with them and in turn 
their customers, it had become very apparent to us that 
increasingly international companies and their working in 
international markets in different consumer preferences, their 
expectation is the American farmer, whether they are dairy 
producers, protein producers, or grain producers, have to have 
the data and ultimately the outcomes to be able to just not 
characterize the quality of the grain or the quality of the 
product, but also how, what was the system used to produce that 
food product.
    The American producer, it is no longer just only about 
premium and access to new incentives. Increasingly, we see a 
potential being a market access challenge, and the American 
farmer does not have access to this kind of ability to tell his 
or her story. We are concerned about the long-term potential 
impact about access to international markets and ultimately 
international food companies.
    Senator Stabenow. What you are saying is that this kind of 
information in setting up a system with integrity in the USDA 
is going to be very important for our producers who obviously 
are selling in the global marketplace?
    Mr. Weller. Agree. Having USDA creating those standards, I 
think, will also create that independent trust that the 
international marketplace looks at.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Roberts. Senator Boozman.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, 
Senators Braun and Stabenow and your cohorts, Graham and 
Whitehouse, for really pushing this forward. This is something 
that is timely, and anything we can do to help our farm 
community be recognized and receive value for the great work 
that they do is so important, along with helping the 
environment.
    I guess my concern is as you read through the bill, you 
really wonder who is going to benefit. What we do not want--and 
I know what you do not want--are the third-party providers, the 
verifiers who are going to receive the USDA-certified label or 
the corporations who want to greenwash their businesses, that 
they are the real benefitters.
    I worry a little bit about companies dictating how our 
farmers should farm. We all know that some companies have made 
environmental commitments without even engaging the farmers who 
supply the raw materials.
    So, what I would like is a discussion. Tell me how we can 
ensure that the benefits go to the farmer.
    I will give you an example. A few years ago, GSA started 
using the LEED certification program. Most of the trees in the 
country could not be used in building our government buildings. 
The trees could come from overseas, but American-grown trees 
did not qualify. How do we avoid problems like that? How do we 
make sure that the benefit, the value actually goes to the 
farmers and not the middle men and corporations?
    We will start with you, Mr. Larew, if that is okay.
    Mr. Larew. Sure. Appreciate the question because it is an 
essential one, right?
    Senator Boozman. Right.
    Mr. Larew. I think one of the first things to ensure is 
that we first are looking at this as a voluntary private 
market. In that, farmers would have the option to participate 
or not. Assuming that the verification system is rigorous and 
does add that legitimacy to it, I think that USDA's role in 
this process it going to be critical to ensuring the trust that 
farmers can have and, quite frankly, the other players along 
the line, including corporations and consumers. Really, our 
focus is on making sure that farmers can trust that the market 
that we are going to be participating in is one that is 
legitimate and can be reliable for them, and that they are 
recognized for the public good that they are creating with 
their practices.
    I think it is something that we will need to continue to 
look at throughout this process because another concern of 
ours, quite frankly, is anytime you are operating in a 
voluntary private market like this and you are commoditizing 
something, we also want to make sure we are not, in doing so, 
incentivizing corporations from even buying up land or doing 
other practices that put family farmers at the sideline of this 
issue, where they should be central.
    Thanks for the question.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, and I agree with you totally.
    Anybody else want to jump in on that? I do think this is a 
central question as we work through this.
    You mention USDA, and I have a lot of confidence in USDA, 
but Secretaries come and Secretaries go. We have to make this 
such that we can make it as ironclad as possible.
    Mr. Bible. Senator Boozman.
    Senator Boozman. Yes. Sure.
    Mr. Bible. I will add just a couple quick comments. With 
USDA being in the process, I will echo what Mr. Larew said. 
That is very important, but I think what really it comes down 
to is that the farmer will be looking for economic signals in a 
free market. If the economic signal exists for a farmer to 
produce a certain product--in this case, it is a carbon 
credit--that farmer will respond and will benefit from that 
market signal.
    We do a great job of producing a lot of corn, a lot of 
soybeans, a lot of cattle, whatever that commodity might be, 
when we are incentivized to do that within the marketplace. I 
think that is how this would work as well.
    Senator Boozman. Anybody else, quickly?
    Mr. Weller. Senator Boozman?
    Senator Boozman. Yes.
    Mr. Weller. Just to add to President Larew's and Mr. 
Bible's comments, from a farmer perspective---and one of our 
farmers, Matt Rezac, who testified before your Committee last 
May, he talked about this best, where ultimately you need to 
work with who farmers trust.
    For our model, working with the agricultural retailer, we 
are all about maximizing the value for the farmer, and we see 
what this legislation, this bill is actually providing the 
farmer, then, a way they can identify whom they can trust to 
help them generate the maximum value, but ultimately, then it 
helps buyers of these credits also have trust and confidence. 
They, in turn, feel confident what they are purchasing also has 
value.
    Yes, as a cooperative, we are actually about maximizing 
return to the farmer, and we believe in this legislation's 
potential to help identify trusted advisors, but also a trusted 
system that ultimately the marketplace can rely on.
    Senator Boozman. Good.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Roberts. Senator Brown?
    Senator Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much.
    Mr. Weller, good to see you again.
    Both you and Mr. Bible mentioned the lack of high-speed 
internet in rural areas as a challenge to deployment of 
precision technology. We have heard from so many teachers, 
librarians, superintendents, small business owners, farmers all 
over our States--I think pretty much all of us have--about 
during thins pandemic as broadband being one of their biggest 
challenges.
    This Committee has worked to improve broadband, but we have 
way more work to do, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Stabenow, and 
I am hopeful next year, we can reengage.
    Mr. Weller, one question. From your time at NRCS, you know 
the Western Lake Erie Basin well. Run me through some scenarios 
and the types of soil health practices farmers there can 
implement and how widespread use of these practices, what I 
would hope would reduce runoff into the lake.
    Mr. Weller. I do know the Western Lake Erie well, and 
actually I was invited in 2014 after that initial crisis within 
the city of Toledo, that summer when it lost its water supply, 
and that was as well with the agricultural community. In trying 
to identify solutions in the Western Lake Erie Basin, 
ultimately, first and foremost, to give farmers the credit they 
deserve for their already excellent stewardship in that 
watershed, but also then how do we help them advance both the 
soil management, ultimately reduce the loss of sediment and 
phosphorus that is impacting the lake.
    To your question on the practices, I really believe, as I 
said in my opening, we are on the cusp of a revolution and 
conservation, and what is required in the Western Lake Erie 
Basin is the ability to advise the farmer, help the farmer 
identify on their fields where they are losing their inputs as 
well as their losing their soil.
    As in my testimony, that according to USDA, it is actually, 
on a micro scale, across that watershed, based on topography 
and terrain and soil type, it is really helping the farmer 
understanding the diversity in their fields across their 
operation and then prescribing the mix of practices, including 
the rotation of their corps, the residue management, the 
application and precision application of fertilizers and crop 
protection products, ultimately to drive profitability on a 
subfield scale. By chasing profitability and ultimately 
improving efficiency, you are reducing then the loss and the 
risk of loss in that field; in this case, loss of top soil, 
loss of nutrients into the tidal line or surface runoff, as 
well as loss of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
    It is really ultimately a systems approach, but using 
prescription as a subfield scale, we think is going to be the 
solution to addressing both Lake Erie's water quality 
challenges as well as helping farmers in that watershed 
generate this new class of commodities, greenhouse gas credits.
    Senator Brown. Thank you.
    You know there are obviously several members of this 
Committee representing the Great Lakes States and how important 
the Great Lakes is to our planet, of course.
    Mr. Larew, thank you for your interest in soil health. In 
Ohio, we are proud to have one of the world's foremost soil 
scientists, Dr. Rattan Lal. There was a good story in NPR about 
him in the last couple of days. Two weeks ago, he was awarded 
the World Food Prize for his work on soil health. His work is 
focused on rebuilding soils and the role soil can play in 
mitigating climate change.
    By his math, for about $16 an acre, we could dramatically 
reduce carbon emissions via number of on-farm ecosystem 
practices.
    Mr. Larew, do you think farmers would be interested in and 
would utilize a tax credit based on the amount of carbon 
sequestered by deployment of these ecosystem practices that he 
has talked about?
    I appreciate Farmers Union support for this concept. How 
does a tax credit--how would you structure it to ensure farmers 
are using it and we get the climate benefits we want?
    Mr. Larew. Thank you for the question. I think it is an 
important one because it also highlights the fact that we are 
probably going to need a series of tools to provide incentives 
to farmers to continue to be able to adopt these climate 
friendly practices, which also improve soil health.
    I think specifically to a carbon sequestration tax credit 
that NFU does not have specific policy, but it certainly aligns 
very closely with the types of incentives that we are looking 
for that we think farmers certainly would be able to take 
advantage of.
    There is an obvious challenge, at least initially, with the 
idea in that for a lot of farmers, as we talk about the economy 
and the struggles that farmers have, a tax credit is not 
necessarily available to them unless there is also a way to 
make that transferrable, and so there are certainly ways to tie 
that in with existing markets out there and other players, that 
if done correctly and fairly to farmers would enable them to 
potentially take advantage of that and provide additional 
incentives for them to adopt these practices.
    We certainly support the concept and look for a suite of 
these types of tools. Thank you.
    Senator Brown. If you would, if you and the Farmers Union 
and for that matter the Farm Bureau and Land O'Lakes and all of 
you would work with us on that, we would love to do that in the 
upcoming months.
    Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Roberts. We thank you, Senator.
    Senator Hoeven?
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    My first question is for Mr. Duvall. How do we make sure 
that any program we set up along these lines is farmer 
friendly, we make sure that it works for farmers, that it does 
not create a mandate or a burden, it truly is something that is 
voluntary and a benefit to our farmers and ranchers?
    Mr. Duvall. Yes, sir. Thank you for the question.
    That is so important. Every law that you all work on and 
work tirelessly on to pass has great intentions, and then a lot 
of times in the rulemaking, it kind of gets twisted around a 
little bit.
    Clear rules that help us be able to identify how do we do 
this--we are already hiring multiple consultants on different 
levels of our businesses. We do not need another program that 
is so complicated that we have to hire another consultant to 
help us with it. To make it clear and make sure that the rules, 
and the bill is clear enough that the rules are going to end up 
being something that farmers can trust and have it more brief 
than lengthy.
    We got into that trouble with some of the other rules that 
were passed down to farmers in the past, and our farmers have a 
very difficult time staying within the guidelines of those 
programs because the rules are so complicated. They need to be 
in a way that they cannot change with one Secretary or one 
administration to the other.
    Senator Hoeven. Well, on that, if we end up using some kind 
of third-party verifier or something in these programs, talk 
about that for a minute. Again, how do you make sure you have 
got somebody out doing those evaluations in a way that helps 
our farmers and ranchers and does not feel like another 
compliance kind of thing? You know what I mean?
    Mr. Duvall. Hopefully, it would be organizations that 
already exist that we already have trust in.
    Senator Hoeven. You mean like the Farm----
    Mr. Duvall. You know, trust goes a long way.
    Senator Hoeven [continuing]. Bureau or Farmers Union, like 
that?
    Mr. Duvall. Well, possibly.
    Senator Hoeven. Yes.
    Mr. Duvall. Possibly, that could happen. Yes, sir.
    I would think our State farm bureaus would welcome the 
opportunity to try to provide that, and I cannot speak for 
Farmers Union. I would think they would too.
    I think if it is put together correctly, it could be 
something that our organizations could help with.
    Senator Hoeven. Yes. Well, then I am going to go to Mr. 
Larew with kind of the same question. How do we make sure it is 
farmer friendly and a role for our farmer organizations to play 
in actually making it work in a way that benefits the farmers 
and ranchers? I mean, our farmers and ranchers got so many 
challenges. We do not want to add challenges. We want to add 
opportunities.
    Mr. Larew. It is a great question, and again, from Farmers 
Union perspective, all of these questions from our view is it 
has to be from the farm family and rancher perspective. Is this 
going to work for them? Is this incentive based? Is it 
voluntary, and is it based on sound science and practices that 
are going to work for that particular area?
    We know that farming is quite different from one area to 
the other. Looking at North Dakota in particular, you step 
outside the Red River Valley, and agriculture shifts pretty 
dramatically across the State, so making sure that we do not 
have a cookie-cutter kind of approach to these practices.
    I think that this also really stresses the other 
complementary component to all of these questions, and that is 
the need for really additional sound investment in core 
research at USDA to make sure that as we look at these 
practices and as we look at soil health practices and climate-
friendly farming practices, that the data and the research 
behind the decisions that we are making out there are based on 
sound science, and farmers can trust and rely on that 
information. That along with recognizing that farms come in 
various sizes and styles across the entire country, that is 
going to be a key piece to making sure that farmers in 
particular are central to this. Thanks for the question.
    Senator Hoeven. Yes. I think you make a real important 
point that one size does not fit all. There is incredible 
diversity across agriculture. I think that is a really good 
point, and I appreciate it.
    I would just finish up and ask both Mr. Bible and Mr. 
Weller, any other thoughts would make this easier for farmers 
to use, just any big ideas or key ideas you have to make it 
easier for farmers to use?
    Mr. Bible. For me, just establishing that process that USDA 
serves as a certifier and bring some credibility and legitimacy 
to the process, I think that makes it easy for farmers to be 
able to go to a central location and find out information about 
the program and be able to participate with some level of trust 
from that standpoint.
    Senator Hoeven. Mr. Weller?
    Mr. Weller. I think the key is that it's not a USDA market, 
that USDA will be the one essentially certifying the competency 
of the people providing the technical assistance to the farmer, 
so really bringing a tool set of different practices and 
agronomic expertise to the farmer and ultimately putting the 
farmer in control of making the best decisions of what is good 
for their farm or ranch. It is also then the competency of the 
verifiers. In the end, it is not a USDA marketplace, and I 
trust in USDA's ability to help ensure the integrity of the 
science and the practices. Ultimately, Senator Hoeven, to your 
point, it is ultimately maximizing the flexibility of the 
farmer to make the best decision for their farm or ranch.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Roberts. We thank you, Senator.
    Senator Klobuchar?
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and 
Ranking Member. Thank you for having this hearing today. It is 
very important.
    The Growing Climate Solutions Act would help farmers gain 
access to new revenue streams through private-sector 
environmental markets while also establishing a process that I 
think is really important to certify that greenhouse gas 
emission reductions can both be quantified and verified.
    Senator Thune and I actually worked on a provision in the 
last Farm Bill based on our Agriculture Data Act to improve the 
use of advanced data analysis to help farmers identify the most 
effective conservation techniques that would have the greatest 
benefit, both for our climate and our farmers' bottom line.
    Mr. Bible, could you briefly talk about how you use data, 
and would you find it helpful for the Department of Agriculture 
to release studies that compare data across disciplines, like 
comparing yield rates to rates of cover crop adoption?
    Mr. Bible. As I alluded earlier, my training is in ag 
economics from Purdue University. That discipline taught me to 
look at things from a data-driven perspective, no matter what I 
am analyzing, so to be analytical in my process.
    The business decisions that we make on the farm every day 
centered around what does the information tell us, what does 
the data support, what does it tell us, and what is an 
economically good decision to make for our operation.
    I will note that what we find more and more all the time, 
that economic decisions and environmental decisions are 
complementary. They go hand-in-hand, and we are finding that 
more and more every day.
    Certainly, any information that we can have that is 
reliable data, statistics, whether that come from USDA or third 
party--university data has historically been very important, 
university extension data. Any of that that is available, that 
helps us inform better decisionmaking, is certainly important.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you.
    Mr. Weller, welcome remotely from my home State. We are 
very proud of Land O'Lakes in our State, and I wanted to ask 
you about this. The bill would help reduce emissions by 
providing farmers with technical assistance on participating in 
carbon markets. At the same time, the legislation has the 
potential to improve sustainability throughout the agricultural 
supply chain by bringing greater value to renewable fuels.
    Can you talk about how providing access to carbon markets 
for farmers could help drive emissions reductions across the 
biomass supply chain, including the positive effects on 
biofuels and biobased products?
    Mr. Weller. The system of practices that ultimately this 
legislation anticipates to help farmers generate credits, in 
this case, greenhouse gas credits, will also be then the same 
system and suite of practices that biobased products and 
biobased energy, fuel products, ultimately need.
    For example, on the West Coast, there is a whole coalition 
of States led in part by California, Oregon, and Washington 
that are looking at the low carbon fuel standards, and so this 
is a way for ethanol products and other biobased energy 
products to create credits that go into those marketplaces. In 
order to generate the credits, the farmers and ultimately that 
energy supply chain needs to have the data and the outcomes to 
demonstrate how these biobased products ultimately creating 
that credit potential can allow these energy products to access 
into those marketplaces.
    It is also beyond just creating the credit and ultimately 
marketing this energy product. It is then helping the farmers 
with incentives through and support from the greenhouse gas 
credits to help them adopt the system, the suite of technology 
of conservation practices, new machinery that will ultimately 
help them create results that the marketplace is looking for.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you.
    Mr. Larew, my last question here, it is sort of along the 
same lines but about the biofuels market. Senator Grassley and 
I have worked together on a number of initiatives, as have 
others on this Committee through the years, and right now, 
something like half the biofuel plans are idled or slowed down. 
Of course, these exemptions, small refinery exemptions--and 
Senator Grassley and I have introduced some legislation for 
relief on this, but as making it so much worse.
    Could you, Mr. Larew, just talk about the challenge that we 
are facing? I know Mr. Bible is well aware of this, but I will 
have him followup in writing. Can you talk about that briefly?
    Mr. Larew. Yes. I appreciate it because for Farmers Union, 
biofuels production is very much aligned with our climate 
strategy as well.
    Senator Klobuchar. Exactly.
    Mr. Larew. It is a climate and a consumer-friendly 
development, and what the EPA is doing with the current 
barriers and the small refinery exemption waivers is really a 
huge disservice not only to farmers and ranchers and rural 
communities, but to the Nation, who is trying to look for 
alternative fuels and climate-friendly solutions.
    We are very excited to be one of the primary litigants 
against EPA recently on some of those waivers. The 10th Circuit 
ruled in our favor, and we are hopeful that in spite of 
continuing effort to seek even additional waivers that they 
will use the court's ruling on that to stand behind the RFS in 
a solid way.
    Thank you.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Roberts. Senator Hyde-Smith?
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking 
Member Stabenow, for holding this hearing, and I certainly want 
to thank those witnesses down there that have agreed to serve 
on the panel today. It has been very beneficial.
    My question is for President Duvall, Zippy Duvall, and I 
want to thank him for his great leadership as well at the Farm 
Bureau and his advocacy for farmers and ranchers that has 
benefited this entire country, I can safely say.
    Mississippi is blessed with more than 10 million acres of 
farmland and almost 20 million acres of timberland. We have a 
high enrollment in the CRP and the WRP programs in our State 
and other conservation programs authorized by the Farm Bill.
    In many instances, as we have discussed, producers and 
private landowners find it difficult to access carbon markets, 
and that the process is often difficult or it is too convoluted 
to achieve wide adoption.
    Your home State of Georgia and Mississippi are a lot alike, 
and could you speak a little more on how the legislation we are 
reviewing today might benefit our farmers and private 
landowners?
    Mr. Duvall. Sure, Senator, and thank you so much for the 
question.
    I think it gives us the opportunity to, like I said 
earlier, diversify our income. I think the secret to making 
this happen is information. Farmers need the information and 
data to be able to drive their decisions, and then we talk 
about small family farms where they are not used to hiring a 
consultant, so they are not used to having lawyers on staff 
full-time. They are going to depend on their extension services 
and the land-grant colleges to help to lead them in that 
thought process of whether or not this option is available for 
them on their farm and whether or not it would be profitable 
for them to be able to diversify their income.
    I think information is a big thing. How do we get the 
information out there? How do we get that information to them 
through a trusted delivery system? The extension service is 
always--for a small family farm, that is always the delivery 
system that they trust.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, and I sure appreciate Farm 
Bureau. I appreciate the mask that I have today that has got 
``Farm Bureau'' on it. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Duvall. It is looking good on you, Senator.
    [Laughter.]
    Chairman Roberts. Has the Senator concluded?
    Senator Hyde-Smith. I am done.
    Chairman Roberts. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Bennet.
    Senator Bennet. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you very 
much to the witnesses for participating in this hearing. We 
really appreciate it under these circumstances.
    Mr. Bible, in answer to a question that Senator Klobuchar 
asked a few minutes ago, you said that increasingly on your 
farm, you are seeing the economic health of your farm is tied 
to the sustainability of the farm, and that environmental 
practices and economic practices, I think you said more and 
more are going hand-in-hand.
    We are seeing a lot of that in Colorado, but I think it 
would be useful if you could expand on your answer and talk a 
little bit about what you are seeing in that regard.
    Mr. Bible. Certainly. It spans a few different areas. One 
is certainly in the practices that we choose to participate in, 
and it really is by a farm-level or field-level decision, that 
in many times, no-till practices, sometimes cover cropping are 
two examples of things that certainly tend to increase 
productivity on particular farms that do not have the same 
organic material or the same water retention abilities as other 
farms. We find that when we engage in certain environmentally 
friendly practices that we are also increasing the productivity 
and the resiliency of those farms. They may not be our highest-
producing farms, but over changes in weather, changes in 
climate year to year, we see some stability that will develop.
    Then is also spans the technology and the equipment side of 
things. We have made investments and continue to make 
investments in equipment year over year that allow us to 
operate much more efficiently.
    Part of our farm is irrigated, center-pivot irritation, and 
we found that investments in technology within that allows us 
to variable rate water and allow us to use that more 
efficiently.
    It is not just in how we treat the soil, but it is other 
things that go into the total operation across the board.
    Senator Bennet. The soil is an important part of all of 
this, obviously, because that is the only way you can pass a 
farm to the next generation.
    In Colorado, that part of the country, we know our history, 
and we know when we had the Dust Bowl, we had to respond to 
that. We had to change the practices, and the result of that is 
we have family farms today that we would not otherwise have had 
we not done that. I think we are on the cusp of that sort of a 
revolution right now. You heard it from the testimony of the 
representative of Land O'Lakes.
    Since you were kind enough, Mr. Larew, to mention my bill, 
I wanted to give you an opportunity to talk about it a little 
bit more.
    As I think the Chairman knows, I released a draft bill last 
year to provide tax credits for farmers, ranchers, and 
foresters who are taking steps to store carbon in their land. 
We modeled it after the 45Q credit that is available to the 
energy sector. I think our sector should have the benefit of 
that as well.
    Could you talk a little more about how the Growing Climate 
Solutions Act might set the stage for more public-sector 
initiatives such as a tax credit to increase carbon 
sequestration in the land sector and create value for our 
farmers, ranchers, and foresters?
    Mr. Larew. Certainly. I appreciate the question.
    I think that what is important to note is that the Growing 
Climate Solutions Act, by setting criteria for the third-party 
verifiers lends that legitimacy to the marketplace-sends the 
signal that there is more structure in place, if done 
correctly, with very rigorous accreditation and also with 
making sure that bad actors and other market forces are 
performing well for farmers.
    I think that will set the stage very nicely for additional 
suites of incentives that would also allow farmers to innovate 
and take advantage of additional climate-friendly practices. 
Part of that certainly could include a carbon sequestration tax 
credit, much like your bill has perceived so far.
    As I noted before, we do need to make sure that it operates 
in a way that serves family farmers and ranchers primarily, and 
we need to make sure since they do not have many cases of a tax 
burden because of economic conditions that we are incentivizing 
any transfer in a way that again keeps family farmers and 
ranchers on the land and that we are not inadvertently setting 
up incentives for corporate land grabs to also take advantage 
of those.
    Senator Bennet. I think that is a very important point. I 
look forward to working with you on that.
    Mr. Larew. Thank you.
    Senator Bennet. Mr. Chairman, thank you.
    Chairman Roberts. Senator Thune.
    Senator Thune. Mr. Chairman, thank you and Ranking Member 
Stabenow for holding today's hearing to consider the Growing 
Climate Solutions Act.
    I also want to thank our witnesses for appearing before the 
Committee today and for your input on this issue.
    I know you have probably covered some of this ground, and I 
apologize I had to be at another hearing at the Commerce 
Committee, but I want to ask the question for all the 
witnesses. Maybe you could do it quickly and sort of summarize 
your answer. What do you see as the biggest obstacle that 
farmers and ranchers face when it comes to accessing carbon 
markets, and how are producers currently accessing these 
markets?
    Mr. Bible. I can go first on that.
    The biggest barriers are knowledge or lack thereof about 
the process and then trust, trust that you can be involved with 
a third party that is going to be fair with you from a farmer 
perspective. I think those are the barriers that I see. I think 
this bill does a good job of addressing that.
    Senator Thune. Mr. Larew.
    Mr. Larew. I would certainly agree with that. I think 
knowledge--farmers are great at farming and at trying to 
distill a lot of information, but for the efforts that are out 
there right now, these contracts are enormously complex, and 
there are a lot of questions. Setting up a system similar to 
one that is envisioned by this bill would at least set up a 
structure so that farmers can trust the information, make sure 
that they can get their questions answered, and can believe in 
the system and the market itself.
    Senator Thune. How are they currently accessing the market? 
That is a second question, then.
    Mr. Larew. There are certainly a couple players right now 
in this marketplace. Indigo is one of the companies that is out 
here right now, and farmers are able to kind of access that 
individually.
    Again, I think that one of the limitations for additional 
acreage being signed up is the lack of knowledge and being able 
to tap into those markets.
    Senator Thune. Mr. Duvall and Mr. Bible, both of you 
mentioned ethanol in your opening remarks, and built on the 
efficient and cleaner farmer practices we are discussing today, 
we know that American ethanol and biodiesel are driving 
significant emissions reductions. Could you speak to the 
importance of having accurate up-to-date greenhouse gas 
modeling from EPA, especially how it might further support 
green farming or create trade opportunities?
    Mr. Bible and then Mr. Duvall.
    Mr. Bible. Okay. Two things that I will say, it is vitally 
important for us to have that information wherever it comes 
from, whether it is EPA or USDA, and second, I will say that 
the issue that we faced in the ethanol market with EPA and 
issuing those waivers that we faced, that has been a tremendous 
challenge, and the fact that we have a government entity that 
has put up a barrier to that market is deeply concerning to me.
    Senator Thune. Mr. Duvall.
    Mr. Duvall. Yes, Senator. We think it is vitally important 
that we be able to measure that and have something that we can 
have trust and depend on.
    The ethanol, biodiesel in 2019 reduced green house gas 
emissions by the amount equivalent of 17 million cars being 
taken off the road.
    When you start talking about data for your constituents and 
the people out in the public to support programs that we are 
trying to utilize on our farms, they got to have the data to be 
able to see what we are actually doing and what is producing 
and how it is helping the environment.
    The ethanol industry is a great industry. It is an 
infrastructure in a lot of our rural communities out there. Not 
only the cars depend on it and being energy independent, but 
also the animal sector depends on a lot of the byproducts for 
feed stuff. It is a vital piece of the rural economy of this 
country and the infrastructure that was created to not just 
help rural America but to help America be energy independent, 
and in doing that, we have done some tremendous--made some 
tremendous strides in protecting our environment.
    Senator Thune. Thank you.
    Mr. Bible, Mr. Larew, very quickly, greener farming 
practice does not only add value to the crop, but lower the 
lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions for biofuels. Cellulosic 
biofuels lower this carbon intensity even further. Could you 
speak to the importance or perhaps the detriment, I should say, 
of the EPA inaction when it comes to supporting technologies 
like corn kernel fiber that would bolster environmental efforts 
in the ag space?
    Mr. Larew. Yes. I mean, very briefly, I think that EPA has 
been the primary barrier to a lot of additional success that we 
can have in the reduction of greenhouse gases in ethanol and 
technology, particularly on the cellulosic side, but also, 
quite frankly, on traditional--even as we are improving through 
agronomic practices, et cetera, and processing, the story for 
green-based ethanol in general. EPA continues to be a barrier 
not only for the waivers that they have issued, but also for 
barriers against higher blends, which would be able to move us 
even further and continues to be a strong and smart climate 
solution.
    Senator Thune. Thank you.
    Mr. Bible. I will just echo that thought very briefly that 
there are tremendous opportunities for ethanol markets going 
forward, grain, cellulosic, on and on, and the EPA certainly 
should not be a barrier to those emerging markets.
    Senator Thune. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Roberts. Members should know that we have votes at 
11:30. We are going to try to keep going here. If we can make 
our remarks somewhat brief, why, that would be appreciated.
    Senator Gillibrand.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    As you all know, farmers are dependent upon a stable 
climate for their livelihoods and way of life and acutely 
exposed to the impacts of climate change, whether flooding, 
drought, or spread of invasive species and crop pests.
    I agree with you, as you said in your testimony, that, 
quote, climate change is the single greatest long-term 
challenge facing family farms and ranchers, rural communities, 
and global food security.
    We need to address this challenge head on, and our farmers 
have a unique and important role to play. What more can we be 
doing to engage our farmers and agricultural communities 
particularly where there is a lot of skepticism around climate 
science and the need to reduce fossil fuels?
    Mr. Larew. I appreciate the question.
    For our membership and our farmers and ranchers across the 
country, they have recognized the challenges and the changing 
climate and the direct effect that it has on their operations. 
They are very much focused on solutions, and as this debate and 
conversation continues, recognize the opportunities, some of 
which we are talking about today, tapping into markets.
    For farmers and ranchers, I think that, first and foremost, 
they are interested in leaving their lands in better condition. 
They are also interested in sustaining that operation into the 
far future, and so making sure that they can do that not only 
in a sustainable way, but quite frankly, an economically viable 
way is going to be critically important.
    As we get additional data about the value that many of 
these climate-friendly practices bring to their operations, I 
think that information will go even further in building that 
level of trust. That tied to the incentives that are market-
based, potentially also those incentives with the existing 
suite of voluntary incentive-based programs at USDA and 
conservation, all of these types of things are certainly 
welcome by farmers and will continue to be adopted by them as 
they see the value that it brings to their operations.
    Senator Gillibrand. In addition to the legislation we are 
examining today, what are other policies and support from the 
Federal Government that would make it useful to helping farmers 
become less dependent on fossil fuel, and what are the biggest 
barriers to powering our farms with more renewable energy? Do 
any of you have thoughts on what Congress could do to 
incentivize farmers to use more wind and solar power to 
electricity and transition to cleaner farm equipment in a way 
that is cost effective?
    Mr. Larew. Senator, I would just jump in first on 
reiterating that one of the, I think, central roles that 
Congress could certainly play in helping support this whole 
culture is really investing even further on basic research, 
basic research through USDA on climate-friendly solutions and 
what those outcomes actually are, making sure that we have 
credible, validated information with which we can make other 
policy and obviously land practice decisions in a credible way.
    I think that making sure that the information we have out 
there is very much science driven is a really important role 
that the Federal Government can play.
    Mr. Weller. I would just add to this, and this is built 
upon President Larew's remarks, but also to echo Mr. Bible's 
remarks earlier.
    Senator, I think the conversation with the producer really 
has to be anchored, in our experience, first and foremost, in 
how do practices and technology help that farm be more 
profitable.
    Setting aside the climate change conversation, which 
sometimes can lead to a tangent that is not necessarily a 
productive conversation, if you first approach the farm, 
understanding a business operation, what is the mix of 
practices and systems that is going to help that farm be more 
successful from a production but more importantly a profit 
standpoint, if you anchor the conversation in profitability, 
that ultimately can lead to the adoption of climate-smart 
technology.
    Using the Federal Government, as we talked about, with this 
legislation, with other legislation, and incentives that have 
been discussing during the hearing, it is really the mix of 
different incentive tools that the Federal Government should 
look at, but ultimately, it is helping farmers to adopt the 
right mix of practices, because it is going to reduce their 
emissions but also offset the emissions of other sectors.
    Mr. Duvall. Senator, this is Zippy Duvall, American Farm 
Bureau.
    I grew up, I have raised my family here on my family farm 
that was passed down from my grandfather, and the most 
important things as a farmer is, one, being able to conduct our 
businesses in a way that is healthy for our families and our 
neighbors, that is healthy for our soils and our waters, and 
then, of course, to do that, we have to be profitable.
    What we depend on in small family farms across America is 
trust in research, research that is public and private going 
on, our land-grant colleges. We all trust our land-grant 
colleges to do that research, to be able to deliver something 
that I can voluntarily get involved in, protect the soil and 
water of my family, my neighbors, my friends, pass my farm on 
in better conditions than I received it. It is something that 
is going to draw me to it quickly.
    Just an example in my younger years when we started talking 
about nutrients being applied behind animal production, I raise 
about a million and a half broilers here a year. We use a 
comprehensive nutrient management plan. That comprehensive 
nutrient management plan was information that came to me from 
the extension service. My extension agent, I trusted. He helped 
me set it up, and we have abided by that plan for years and 
years and years.
    The programs that we are talking about is the same thing. 
If we can do it, do it right, not make it too complicated, make 
it beneficial to our land, water, and our farms, healthy for 
our families and our neighbors, and help us to be profitable, 
more profitable, that we can afford to do it through buying the 
equipment and actually putting in these practices on the ground 
would be a draw to our farmers to come to.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you.
    Chairman Roberts. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Braun.
    Senator Braun. Thank you, Chairman Roberts.
    Chairman Roberts. Cosponsor of the bill.
    Senator Braun. Thank you.
    Brent, we had a chance to visit this morning earlier and 
share the common roots of being a Hoosier, and interestingly, 
you are a first-generation farmer. I am wondering how many have 
stuck their neck out to get into farming for the first time. 
You started in 1907, two years before the four best years we 
have had in the farm economy, and since 2013--and I talk about 
it often--all of a sudden, the arithmetic starts to get 
increasingly difficult for any farmer.
    We were reminiscing about putting an acre of soybeans out 
for 70 bucks an acre; corn, $140; and prices along with the 
other mechanisms not too much different from what we have now.
    Now costs have tripled. It seems to be very sticky, coming 
down, and we are in that groove of where there is probably very 
little margin of error.
    I would like you to take the time in a pro forma way to 
talk about the costs of agriculture per acre and maybe take an 
acre of corn and put that in relation to--I think from Mr. 
Larew's data, we found that back in 2010, this might generate 
about 15 bucks an acre. Update us on what the carbon markets 
might give a farmer currently if you perform in a way that is 
friendly to the environment. Talk about the high altitude of 
farm P&L's and how narrow the margin of profit is currently, if 
you can carve one out, so we can all understand how difficult 
your business is.
    Mr. Bible. Sure. It has changed drastically over the last 
13, 14 years.
    I do come to this as a first-generation farmer. Certainly, 
we all grew up--I think many of us grew up with a garden or a 
few cattle or a few pigs around and that type of thing. That 
was a rural lifestyle in the 1970's and 1980's, especially, but 
my parents had all farm jobs. I chose to enter this a little 
bit later in life, and it has worked out wonderfully.
    The timing was good, as you alluded to, when we entered 
into full-time farming. There was a profit margin there, and we 
did not rely on government support and subsidies like we have 
gotten to today in terms of trying to have some type of 
sustainability or profitability on the farm.
    The cost of inputs have risen dramatically in the last 15 
years, and that----
    Senator Braun. Three times would be fair from what it was?
    Mr. Bible. Two to three times, absolutely. A lot of that 
has been driven by technologies and seed and other inputs, but 
certainly, some of that has just been driven by the ability to 
make a profit or the need to make a profit form the input side 
of things. That was great through a few years where the farmer, 
the end producer was making a good profit as well. We have seen 
that certainly go backward the last five, six years.
    I see no change in that on the horizon for that right now. 
Our demand structure certainly has been injured in the last 
couple of years through different things, policy and otherwise, 
but our supply is very good right now as well. We need to look 
for other markets, other opportunities to generate a profit, 
and outside----
    Senator Braun. Yields have not compensated for the input 
cost going up. To be fair, yields have gone up, but your margin 
has shrunk to where there's a margin on a pro forma basis in 
farming currently, taking into full depreciation of equipment 
and all of that. How close is it?
    Mr. Bible. It is zero--or it is probably--to be fair, it is 
less than zero if you do not include the USDA payments that 
have come the last couple of years.
    A typical--I think I am a typical farmer. I see myself that 
way. We are not making money right now. We are treading water, 
so to speak, when you take away that USDA subsidy that has been 
there, whether that is the market facilitation program to the 
COVID.
    Senator Braun. Have these carbon credits gotten any better 
since the 15 bucks per acre, roughly, back in 2010 in terms of 
the markets that are there? Can you comment on that quickly?
    Mr. Bible. Just very quickly, I would say that that comes 
down to supply and demand, and the demand has increased for 
those voluntary markets to exist. I think that is the 
opportunity for us to be able to step up and supply that and 
generate revenue through that process.
    Senator Braun. Make a big difference going from maybe zero 
in the present, actually having a positive bottom line based 
upon something you are doing, anyway, sustainably.
    Mr. Bible. Absolutely. It gives us the opportunity to make 
a profit and do something environmentally healthy for our 
operations at the same time.
    Senator Braun. Thank you so much. Keep up the good work.
    Mr. Bible. Thank you, Senator. Thanks for having me.
    Chairman Roberts. Senator Smith.
    Senator Smith. Thank you very much, Chair Roberts and 
Ranking Member Stabenow. It is wonderful to be with all of you 
virtually, and I very much appreciate your testimony.
    Just quickly, I am really proud to be a cosponsor of the 
Growing Climate Solutions Act of 2020, and as I am listening to 
you all talk about this, you really are describing, in a way, 
sort of a noble circle that can exist in farming where you have 
good soil health, good water quality. You have sustainability. 
You have profitability, and all of that leads to a sustainable 
operation.
    Could you just briefly talk about how if it is done 
correctly, this act could provide an additional source of 
revenue and a diversification of revenue that might be helpful 
to farmers in all parts of that noble circle? Just anybody who 
wants to comment on that, that would be great.
    Mr. Weller. I will jump in there, Senator Smith. Jason 
Weller from Land O'Lakes. Nice to see you, Senator.
    As Mr. Bible was just discussing, but some of the other 
witnesses have also talked about, it is, first and foremost, 
farmers are great at producing food, fiber, and fuel, 
absolutely, but it is also here, we are on the cusp of and what 
your legislation helps anticipate is this new class of 
commodities for, in this case, greenhouse gas credits. Whether 
it is going to be $10 a ton or $15, $20 a ton, the voluntary 
markets are going through price discovery right now, and as we 
expect as increasing demands for credits come from the private 
sector for offsets further emission, we are hopeful that over 
time, you will see price accretion, and there will be more and 
more opportunities for farmers to generate revenue.
    In the end, we see this as not necessarily becoming a 
replacement of crops, of course. This is going to be an 
additive, an add-to, and so in the end, this is an opportunity 
for farmers to have an additional source of revenue but also to 
diversify the revenue coming into the operation and at the same 
time can help offset the cost to adopt new technology, new 
equipment, new crops that ultimately can improve the 
profitability of the farm, but also adopt a climate-smart 
practice that will improve the resiliency of that operation.
    Mr. Bible. I will just briefly add to that. What it does is 
it provides the opportunity to participate, and that is what 
Jason is really getting at.
    We do not have to do this, but if there is an incentive 
there and if it is right for our operation, we will have that 
opportunity to participate and to succeed.
    Senator Smith. Right. Thank you.
    Jason, if I could come back to you, it is wonderful to be 
here with a fellow Minnesotan. Minnesota is the very proud home 
of Land O'Lakes.
    Throughout this conversation, there has been lots of 
conversation and lots of discussion about the importance of 
broadband, especially, as you talk about, the work you are 
doing around your big effort around sustainability.
    I very much admire the work that your CEO, Beth Ford, has 
done around the American Connection Project. I know that 
Farmers Union is part of the American Connection Project, and I 
also know that Farmers Union--Farm Bureau is part of the 
American Connection Project, and Farmers Union is a strong 
supporter of broadband also.
    Beth talks about--and the group talks about the importance 
of greater funding for broadband, better mapping for broadband, 
and also the need for increased coordination at the Federal 
level. The suggestion is that a person within the White House 
that coordinates all of the various Federal efforts around 
broadband. We have certainly seen in the COVID emergency, but 
we knew it before, that broadband is not just something that is 
nice to have. It is absolutely necessary for health, for 
education, for jobs, for everything.
    Jason, could you just talk a little bit more about the work 
at the American Connection Project and how you see that 
applying to what we are talking about today?
    Mr. Weller. Absolutely. In no small part, I am extremely 
proud to be part of Land O'Lakes, and because, first and 
foremost, when I wake up, I know who I work for, which are farm 
families and ag retail owners, but it is also the power of the 
cooperative to be a convener, in this case, through the 
American Connection Project. We are helping to convene a huge 
alliance of diverse partners, including the American Farm 
Bureau Federation. Microsoft is a technology partner. CoBank is 
a financial institution. The Mayo Clinic, also another 
Minnesota-based organization, of course, focused on health 
care, and it is a huge coalition.
    What the COVID pandemic has really shined a light on is the 
disparity in access to the 21st century economy, and that is 
access to the internet. Without access to that internet, you 
cannot do or ultimately implement what we have been talking 
about during this hearing, which is creating new commodities, 
but you also cannot access telemedicine outcomes, education 
opportunities, commerce opportunities for small businesses and 
for farmers themselves to market their crops.
    In the end, we have tried through the American Connection 
Project to provide for connection, but more fundamentally to 
advocate for significant investment, really what should be a 
public utility, and it is a right of access to the 21st century 
super highway, which is the internet.
    Senator Smith. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Chair, I just want to add--I understand that Farmers 
Union as well as Farm Bureau have signed on to the American 
Connection Project, so that is great news.
    Chairman Roberts. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Fischer.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I would like to address this first question to Mr. Duvall 
and Mr. Weller, please.
    Ranchers, particularly those with small-or medium-sized 
family farms and ranches are operating on very thin margins, 
but we know that rangelands store vast amounts of carbon, and 
with small management tweaks, that they can store even more.
    However, carbon market conversations seem to be narrowly 
focused on croplands. How would this legislation remove 
barriers and de-risk these management tweaks for ranchers, 
specifically wanting to access voluntary carbon markets?
    Mr. Weller. I will jump in there first, Senator. Thank you 
very much.
    I think this legislation is really about tapping into the 
scientific and technical expertise of USDA to ultimately help 
identify, set up a system, to identify experts that, in this 
case, ranchers, livestock producers can turn to.
    I agree with you, more often than not, that the whole focus 
around soil health and carbon sequestration is very much 
focused on real crop producers, but there is a huge opportunity 
for range operations, livestock producers, as well as those who 
have pastures, and ultimately, to help those soil systems 
capture and store carbon.
    Through this legislation, it is identifying the 
professionals that can provide that range management, pasture 
management expertise to that livestock producer, livestock 
operator, to help those grassland-based systems pull down and 
store carbon as well as then allowing to have a transparent 
place where ranchers and livestock operators can turn to if 
they too also want to participate in a voluntary marketplace.
    There are increasingly organizations--and I will mention it 
because we are a member of one. We are a very proud member of 
it. It is the Ecosystems Services Market Consortium. It is an 
important industry consortium of over 50 organizations, private 
sector, public sector, nonprofit organizations coming together 
to design the protocol to create a voluntary marketplace for 
ranchers, for livestock producers to bring their credits into 
the marketplace, so they too can participate in a greenhouse 
gas credit removal opportunity.
    Mr. Duvall. Yes, Senator. Jason is perfectly correct. I 
mean, I have a 400-cow-calf operation here on my family farm. I 
am a grass farmer. We call ourselves beef farmers, but we are 
really grass farmers. Anytime or any program that I can be 
involved in to help the soil health on my farm, it not only 
helps the soil, but it makes it more productive, and more 
productive soil gives momma cows more to eat, which makes the 
calves bigger and better.
    I think it is all about having the data, of recognizing 
what we have already done to improve our soils before, 
recognizing our annual practices that we have put on the ground 
with interseeding hard-land drills and comprehensive nutrient 
management plans and all that we do, all incorporated in this 
will help us provide another avenue for us to improve our soil 
health, be more productive, and more profitable on the farm.
    Senator Fischer. Right. There are several NRSC programs 
that are aimed at conserving land like the CSP and CRP, and 
both of those are very popular in my home State.
    In the 2018 Farm Bill, there was a provision in there on 
environmental services markets that prevents USDA from limiting 
participation in markets for all farm bill conservation 
programs.
    Effectively, that is going to allow producers to couple and 
offset projects on top of an already funded conservation 
project. It seems to me that this would help producers increase 
their income by generating credits from land taken out of 
production through CRP, as an example. Do you see it that way?
    Mr. Weller. Through our approach, just real quick, through 
Truterra, we work with our agricultural retailers, and they are 
working with farmers in Nebraska. We have several retailers we 
are very proud to be partnering with in Nebraska, including 
Frontier Co-op, Central Valley Ag, Westco Co-op, and they are 
working with farmers to identify on their fields where there 
are opportunities to utilize programs like CRP to protect the 
soils, to enhance the carbon capacity carrying the soils to 
reduce erosion, provide for wildlife habitat.
    Yes, we see USDA programs like CRP very complementary to 
the exact topic of this hearing.
    Senator Fischer. Right. I would like to see us with this 
bill or other bills also to look at new feed additives, where 
you can reduce methane emissions from cow up to 30 percent. I 
think that has to be part of the conservations for all people 
who are involved with agriculture because we have millions of 
acres of rangeland in this country. We have tens of thousands 
of family ranchers out there as well who continue to improve 
those rangelands, continue to improve the soil, and can be of 
help here.
    Mr. Weller. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Fischer. If we can work together really to be able 
to address the need to allow for a quicker process to have some 
of these additives move through a regulation system at a 
quicker pace, that is going to help all of us.
    Thank you very much. Looking forward to working with you on 
that.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Roberts. We thank you, Senator.
    This will conclude our hearing today. Thank you so much to 
each of our witnesses for taking time to share your 
perspectives on the Growing Climate Solutions Act for 2020.
    To my fellow members, we ask that any additional questions 
you may have for the record be submitted to the Committee Clerk 
five business days from today or by 5 p.m. next Wednesday, July 
1st.
    The Committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:54 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

      
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                   DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

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                         QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

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