    [Senate Hearing 116-402]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                           S. Hrg. 116-402

                      MODERNIZING FEDERAL TELEWORK: MOVING
         FORWARD USING THE LESSONS LEARNED DURING THE COVID	19 PANDEMIC

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                   REGULATORY AFFAIRS AND FEDERAL MANAGEMENT

                                     OF THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                             HOMELAND SECURITY AND
                              GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                               NOVEMBER 18, 2020

                                   __________

                      Available via http://www.govinfo.gov

           Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security
                            and Governmental Affairs

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                 __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    42-886PDF                    WASHINGTON : 2021

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS

                        RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin, Chairman
    ROB PORTMAN, Ohio                    GARY C. PETERS, Michigan
    RAND PAUL, Kentucky                  THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware
    JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma             MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire
    MITT ROMNEY, Utah                    KAMALA D. HARRIS, California
    RICK SCOTT, Florida                  KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona
    MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming             JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
    JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri

                    Gabrielle D'Adamo Singer, Staff Director
                   David M. Weinberg, Minority Staff Director
                   Zachary I. Schram, Minority Chief Counsel
                         Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk
                         Thomas J. Spino, Hearing Clerk

           SUBCOMMITTEE ON REGULATORY AFFAIRS AND FEDERAL MANAGEMENT

                       JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma, Chairman
    ROB PORTMAN, Ohio                    KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona
    MITT ROMNEY, Utah                    THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware
    RICK SCOTT, Florida                  JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
    MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming
                         James D. Mann, Staff Director
                    Eric A. Bursch, Minority Staff Director
             Mallory B. Nersesian, Subcommittee and Document Clerk

                                C O N T E N T S

                                     ------
    Opening statement:
                                                                       Page
        Senator Lankford.............................................     1
        Senator Sinema...............................................     2
        Senator Carper...............................................    10
        Senator Rosen................................................    24
    Prepared statement:
        Senator Lankford.............................................    31
        Senator Sinema...............................................    37

                                   WITNESSES
                          Wednesday, November 18, 2020

    Michelle Rosenberg, Acting Director, Strategic Issue Team,
      Government Accountability Office...............................     5
    Keith Washington, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Administration,
      U.S. Department of Transportation..............................     6
    Sydney T. Rose, Chief Human Capital Officer, Office of Human
      Resources, Office of the Assistant Secretary for Administration
      and Management, U.S. Department of Labor.......................     8
    Jim Borland, Assistant Deputy Commissioner for Systems and Deputy
      Chief Information Officer for IT Operations, Social Security
      Administration.................................................     9

                         Alphabetical List of Witnesses

    Borland, Jim:
        Testimony....................................................     9
        Prepared statement...........................................    61
    Rose, Sydney T.:
        Testimony....................................................     8
        Prepared statement...........................................    57
    Rosenberg, Michelle:
        Testimony....................................................     5
        Prepared statement...........................................    39
    Washington, Keith:
        Testimony....................................................     6
        Prepared statement...........................................    52

                                    APPENDIX

    Statement of the American Federation of Government Employees,
      AFL-CIO........................................................    66
    Responses to post-hearing questions for the Record:
        Mr. Washington...............................................    75
        Mr. Borland..................................................    78

                          MODERNIZING FEDERAL TELEWORK
       MOVING FORWARD USING LESSONS LEARNED DURING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC

                                  ----------

                          WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 2020

                                     U.S. Senate,
                            Subcommittee on Regulatory,
                          Affairs and Federal Management,
                        of the Committee on Homeland Security
                                      and Governmental Affairs,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:11 p.m., via
    Webex and in room 342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon.
    James Lankford, Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding.
        Present: Senators Lankford, Scott, Sinema, Carper, and
    Rosen.

                OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD\1\

        Senator Lankford. Welcome, everybody. Thanks for being
    here. This is a hearing for the Regulatory Affairs and Federal
    Management Subcommittee (RAFM) titled ``Modernizing Federal
    Telework: Moving Forward Using Lessons Learned during the
    Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Pandemic.'' We should at
    least have something good come out of this pandemic.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Lankford appears in the
    Appendix on page 31.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        This hearing is really focused on what we can gain, what
    has already been learned, what gaps are still there, and what
    we can do to better improve the process. It has been a decade
    since the last significant piece of Federal telework
    legislation, the Telework Enhancement Act of 2010. It set the
    baseline standard for Federal agencies to follow for telework.
        Over the last 10 years, we have seen great advances in
    technology, workforce expectations, and an increase in
    cybersecurity threats. So many changes in the world, it makes
    sense to take a close look at the current telework policies and
    strategies in the Federal workforce. The current pandemic has
    acted as a magnifying glass for telework policy improvement.
        This Committee held a hearing in July with a panel of
    private industry witnesses. During that hearing, we were able
    to gather valuable information concerning what private
    employers have done to support their remote workforce. We were
    also able to draw on some lessons learned that could help the
    Federal workforce recalibrate its telework strategies and
    policies.
        During that hearing, we also gained some insight into what
    the current private workforce is demanding. This, coupled with
    all the environmental challenges we now face, may help us
    create remote work policies that keep the Federal Government
    competitive in the hiring of highly qualified individuals.
        Since early March, Federal agencies have been forced to
    deal with complex problems like cybersecurity, remote
    performance management, and employee engagement on a massive
    scale. The pandemic has been extremely disruptive to all of our
    lives, and I am hopeful we can use these challenging times to
    shine a light on telework processes and find long-term
    solutions that provide real value for Federal agencies and
    their employees.
        As I stated in the first hearing, there are some very
    important telework questions that I believe need clarity on in
    order for us to chart a clear path forward for the Federal
    workforce. For example, how do we best prepare employees so
    that during a future disaster or pandemic they can seamlessly
    transition into a Federal workforce policy? How do we
    effectively train managers to stay engaged and to monitor
    performance of remote workers? What tasks could be permanently
    teleworked, which would open up opportunities to hire anyone,
    anywhere in the country?
        I want to make sure that cybersecurity threats and
    information technology (IT) infrastructure improvements are at
    the forefront of future telework legislation conversations.
        Today, I look forward to hearing from the front line. We
    have heard anecdotal evidence of agencies overcoming the
    challenges of a mostly remote workforce, but today we have the
    opportunity to hear from the source. I hope that we can take
    what we learn in today's hearing, use it to create a more
    efficient, flexible, and competitive Federal workforce.
        I do want to thank this panel for taking the time away from
    their very busy schedules. You have all done written statements
    in advance and you have been a part of this for your oral
    testimony as well. We really appreciate the opportunity to be
    able to pick your brain, be able to hear about what the
    agencies have done, what experience that you have gained in the
    process.
        For everyone watching this hearing, this is what we are
    affectionately calling a hybrid hearing. We have some
    individuals that are here in the room, though it is very few.
    Four of our witnesses that will testify in this hearing, two of
    them are live, two of them are remote. Most of the individuals
    that are here will be remote for this hearing, and everyone is
    very well spaced during this hearing as well, to be able to
    make sure that we maintain social distancing in the time
    period. So we are being attendant to all of those basic
    elements through this. But I do want us to be able to get this
    information out. It is important that we get it on the record
    as well.
        With that I would like to recognize Ranking Member Sinema
    for her opening remarks, and she is joining us remotely.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SINEMA\1\

        Senator Sinema. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, for
    holding this important hearing, and as this is likely our last
    Subcommittee hearing of the year I want to thank you for your
    leadership throughout this Congress. It has been an absolute
    pleasure to work with you.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Sinema appears in the
    Appendix on page 37.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        I do want to submit a statement for the record from the
    American Federation of Government Employees.\1\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The statement submitted by Senator Sinema appear in the
    Appendix on page 66.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        I appreciate all of our witnesses joining us today. I had
    hoped that all of our witnesses would agree to join the hearing
    remotely, because I think that would be a great message to show
    our Committee and the country as our COVID numbers are
    increasing across the country, and demonstrate our ability to
    work remotely and to adapt to this changing world.
        Our hearing today is important for a number of reasons, but
    a key one is to dispel the myth that telework automatically
    means decreased productivity. My office has been working
    completely virtual since March, and there has been no
    disruption in our work. Every day our team is working to help
    Arizonans, and, in fact, we have found that telework can
    increase productivity, improve employee morale, and allow
    workers the flexibility they need to care for their kids and
    their loved ones.
        So the key is to develop an effective telework strategy so
    that workers have the tools they need and that everyone in the
    organization understands the policies and goals.
        I look forward to our conversation today on those topics,
    learning more about the problems and challenges you all have
    overcome, and what operational challenges remain. It is also
    important to note the risks of returning our Federal workforce
    to their offices too soon. According to a recent Government
    Executive article, more than 100,000 Federal employees
    nationwide have tested positive for COVID. Many States have
    seen alarming rises in COVID cases recently. This week in
    Arizona, the percent of positive COVID tests has reached its
    highest level in 3 months, and the number of Arizonans
    hospitalized for COVID at the beginning of this week was 70
    percent higher than it was just on November 1.
        While most Federal employees continue to work from home,
    there are certainly some positions, such as our agents and
    officers at the border, our postal workers, and Veterans
    Affairs (VA) staff who cannot do so. So to protect those
    individuals, it is critical that we allow maximum telework to
    minimize the number of people in Federal buildings.
        With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back, and I look forward
    to hearing from our witnesses today.
        Senator Lankford. Thank you.
        At this time I want to be able to proceed with testimony
    from our witnesses. Let me do a quick introduction of the four
    of them.
        Joining us remotely is Michelle Rosenberg. She is the
    Acting Director of U.S. Government Accountability Office
    (GAO's) Strategic Issues Team, where she oversees the agency's
    work on Federal human capital issues. Prior to joining the
    Strategic Issues Team she served for over 20 years on GAO's
    Health Care Team. Throughout her tenure in GAO, Ms. Rosenberg
    has been recognized with numerous GAO-wide and Health Care Team
    awards, including two Meritorious Service Awards and a
    Distinguished Service Award. She will be testifying first and
    will be joining us remotely.
        Keith Washington is here. He is the Deputy Assistant
    Secretary for Administration at the U.S. Department of
    Transportation (DOT). He has been with the Department since
    1991. In his current position, he provides leadership and
    oversight in the areas of human resources (HR), security, audit
    relations, acquisitions and grants, transportation and
    facilities, and space management. Maybe you could lead National
    Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) for us next, since
    we need a new director for NASA, since you are good at space
    management. What do you think? We will talk about that.
        Prior to this role, he was the Director in the departmental
    Office of Human Resource Management.
        Sydney Rose is also here. She is the Chief Human Capital
    Officer (CHCO), at the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL). She has
    over 40 years of Federal service, all of which have been spent
    in human resources-related occupations. Ms. Rose is responsible
    for all the Department's human capital policies and programs
    and is key advisor to departmental leadership on employee
    engagement efforts.
        Ms. Rose joined the U.S. Department of Labor in 2011, and
    has previously served at the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS),
    U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, and the Office of Personnel
    Management (OPM). Thank you for being here.
        Also joining us remotely is Jim Borland. He is the
    Assistant Deputy Commissioner and Deputy Chief Information
    Officer (CIO) for IT Operations at the Social Security
    Administration (SSA). He leads the day-to-day management of the
    agency's computing infrastructure. He previously served as the
    Acting Deputy Commissioner for Communications and the Assistant
    Deputy Commissioner for Social Security's Office of Disability
    Adjudication and Review.
        Prior to joining Social Security Administration, he served
    in various analytical, technical, and leadership positions over
    15 years with the U.S. Departments of Agriculture and Education
    here in Washington, DC.
        I want to thank all four of you for your preparation for
    being here.
        It is the custom of this Subcommittee to swear in all
    witnesses that appear before us. So if I would ask you all to
    please stand and raise your right hand. Yes, even remotely.
    Sorry about that.
        Do you swear that the testimony you will give before this
    Subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
    but the truth, so help you, God?
        Ms. Rosenberg. I do.
        Mr. Washington. I do.
        Ms. Rose. I do.
        Mr. Borland. I do.
        Senator Lankford. Thank you. Let the record reflect that
    all witnesses answered in the affirmative.
        We are using a timing system, with even the folks that are
    joining us remotely should be able to see the timer as well, as
    you go through the process. We will try to stick fairly close
    to that, to be able to make sure we give as much time as
    possible for questions and for conversations as we go through
    this in the process.
        So with that I would recognize Ms. Rosenberg for your
    opening statement.

    TESTIMONY OF MICHELLE ROSENBERG,\1\ ACTING DIRECTOR, STRATEGIC
             ISSUES TEAM, GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE

        Ms. Rosenberg. Chairman Lankford, Ranking Member Sinema,
    and Members of the Subcommittee, I am pleased to be here today
    to discuss Federal telework.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Ms. Rosenberg appears in the appendix
    on page 39.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Telework offers benefits to both Federal agencies and the
    Federal workforce. It can help with recruitment and retention
    of employees, reduce the need for costly office space, and as
    the Ranking Member mentioned, provide an opportunity to better
    balance work and family demands. Telework is also a tool that
    agencies can and have used to accomplish their mission during
    periods of disruption. As you know, during the current COVID-19
    pandemic, use of telework has allowed Federal employees to work
    remotely in order to sustain agency operations and serve the
    American public.
        GAO previously identified key practices in telework-related
    literature and guidelines that Federal agencies should
    implement as part of a successful telework program. Regular
    attention to the key practices can help to foster program
    growth and remove barriers to telework participation.
        My written statement lists all of the key practices we
    identified. This afternoon I will highlight three.
        First, telework agreements. To facilitate telework,
    agencies should have telework agreements that outline the
    agreed-upon work arrangements between agency managers and
    teleworking employees. The Telework Enhancement Act of 2010
    requires agencies to have such written agreements. However, in
    2017, we reported that selected agencies did not require
    regular reviews, or document the reviews of telework
    agreements.
        Given the likelihood of changes in work responsibility and
    employee schedules over time, it is important for agencies to
    regularly review their telework agreements to ensure that they
    reflect and support their current business needs. In addition,
    if telework agreements are not up to date, agencies may be
    using inaccurate telework data when making decisions such as
    space planning and technology investments.
        The second key practice I will highlight is training,
    something Senator Lankford mentioned. Telework involves a
    different way of working as well as supervising employees. As
    such, agencies are required to provide training to eligible
    employees and to managers of teleworkers. Such training should
    cover agencies' telework policies and provide an orientation to
    telework, and focus on telework program activities, including
    the IT applications used while teleworking and performance
    management.
        Our 2017 review of selected agencies' telework programs
    found that managers were generally not required to complete
    telework training before approving staff's telework agreements.
    As a result, managers may have been approving or denying
    requests to telework before they fully understood the agency's
    telework policies and goals.
        The third key practice I will mention is program
    evaluation. It is important for agencies to develop program
    evaluation tools. This should include a tracking system that
    can help to accurately determine the status of telework
    implementation at the agencies. Agencies should use the
    evaluation tools to identify problems or issues with the
    program, and their progress in achieving program goals.
    Agencies should then develop an action plan to guide any needed
    changes.
        Assessments of the costs and benefits, including cost
    savings, of agencies' telework programs can help decisionmakers
    in determining the overall effects and value of telework.
    However, our past work found that selected agencies have little
    data to support the benefits or costs associated with their
    telework programs. OPM has indicated that agencies have
    improved in their ability to track cost savings, but not all
    agencies are reporting cost savings information in response to
    OPM's annual telework data call.
        In conclusion, the telework key practices GAO has
    identified, several of which are required by statute, provide a
    roadmap for Federal agencies to successfully implement their
    telework programs. However, we have previously found that
    agencies face challenges related to implementing telework
    programs that align with the key practices. The challenges
    agencies face provide a valuable learning opportunity as we
    look to expand and modify Federal telework programs. Improving
    the mechanics of telework programs can yield benefits to
    agencies, Federal employees, and the public.
        This concludes my prepared remarks. I am happy to answer
    any questions you may have.
        Senator Lankford. Thank you. Mr. Washington.

     TESTIMONY OF KEITH WASHINGTON,\1\ DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY
         FOR ADMINISTRATION, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

        Mr. Washington Chairman Lankford, Ranking Member Sinema,
    and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity
    to discuss Federal telework during the COVID-19 public health
    emergency on behalf of the U.S. Department of Transportation. I
    am Keith Washington, the Deputy Assistant Secretary for
    Administration, and I have been with the Department for 29
    years.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Washington appears in the
    Appendix on page 52.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        The Department's longstanding support for and encouragement
    of telework across our widespread operations proved its value
    and stability when we quickly and seamlessly converted
    headquarters and field operations in mid-March to maximum
    telework to meet the COVID-19 public health emergency. Telework
    has been a critical flexibility that enables DOT employees to
    ensure America has the safest, most efficient and modern
    transportation system in the world. It boosts our economic
    productivity and global competitiveness and enhances the
    quality of life in both rural and urban communities.
        Telework allows the Department to achieve important
    performance goals and improve the Department's capability to
    support homeland and national security requirements, all while
    supporting employees' work-life balance outcomes.
        In 2013, well before the onset of COVID-19, DOT implemented
    an agency-wide policy in accordance with the Telework
    Enhancement Act of 2010. The policy encourages the use of
    telework and includes notifying 100 percent of our employees of
    their individual telework eligibility status. That policy
    remains in effect today.
        DOT leaders encourage the use of telework to the maximum
    extent possible while maintaining office coverage and
    consistent operations. To ensure the vitality of DOT's telework
    program, DOT conducts telework exercises to give employees and
    managers opportunities to practice working remotely and to test
    the information technology capacity to support telework. Those
    efforts resulted in additional investments in emerging
    technologies and innovation, including secure virtual private
    networks and virtual desktop infrastructure.
        DOT's transition to maximum telework was virtually seamless
    following the onset of the COVID-19 public health emergency.
    Because of advanced preparations across DOT, monthly Federal
    employee teleworkers increased from about 14,000 in February to
    30,000 in March, without disruption to the agency's mission or
    network.
        Under normal circumstances, typically just under half of
    the DOT total workforce is telework eligible, and about a
    quarter of total employees telework monthly, on average. Since
    the onset of the COVID-19 health emergency, upwards of 60
    percent of the total workforce teleworks monthly. The remaining
    positions are in positions that require their physical presence
    to perform their core responsibilities, such as air traffic
    controllers in the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), line
    handlers in the St. Lawrence Seaway Development Corporation,
    and merchant mariners in the Maritime Administration.
        Perhaps one of the most viable lessons learned was to use a
    considerable degree of flexibility when leveraging the telework
    policy, work scheduling procedures, and human resources
    flexibilities and authorities. As a result, some offices are
    reviewing plans to reduce their office footprint by eliminating
    leased space and maximizing work and telework once the COVID-19
    public health emergency ends.
        The maximum telework environment has provided DOT with an
    opportunity to test and implement relatively new and various
    methods of communicating with both large and small groups.
    Maximum telework also presented some ongoing challenges,
    including adjusting to new team dynamics and synergy virtually,
    limited access to office supplies and equipment, and
    connectivity issues for some.
        Several months into this new reality, thousands of our
    employees are now teleworking full-time, and managers are
    experiencing how their organizations can function successfully
    under these conditions, providing vital information on future
    decisions about our operations.
        The Department has been successful at implementing maximum
    telework. DOT has a wide array of workforce missions and has
    maintained a consistent level of operations and productivity
    during the health emergency.
        Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you
    today to discuss Federal telework during the COVID-19 public
    health emergency, on behalf of the Department of
    Transportation. I am happy to answer any questions that you may
    have.
        Senator Lankford. Thank you, Mr. Washington. Ms. Rose.

     TESTIMONY OF SYDNEY T. ROSE,\1\ CHIEF HUMAN CAPITAL OFFICER,
     OFFICE OF HUMAN RESOURCES, OFFICE OF THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY
      FOR ADMINISTRATION AND MANAGEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR

        Ms. Rose. Chairman Lankford, Ranking Member Sinema, and
    Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the invitation to
    testify today.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Ms. Rose appears in the Appendix on
    page 57.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        On March 11, 2020, the novel coronavirus disease, was
    declared a pandemic by the World Health Organization (WHO). On
    March 13, 2020, the United States declared the COVID-19
    outbreak a national emergency, and by mid-March 2020, the U.S.
    Department of Labor entered a maximum telework posture due to
    the COVID-19 global pandemic health emergency.
        As it became clear to us that COVID-19's impact would
    require significant modifications to the Department's
    operations, the Office of Human Resources had the tools
    available to support the Department in moving to a maximum
    telework posture, modifying internal guidance as necessary. DOL
    issued HR guidance, increased technical assistance to employees
    and managers, and responded to hundreds of inquiries from
    managers and employees on a full range of human resources
    issues that included pay, leave, benefits, staffing, telework,
    work schedules, and other workplace flexibilities.
        Additionally, DOL rapidly developed guidance related to
    emergency paid sick leave, offered under the Families First
    Coronavirus Response Act, to ensure that our employees who were
    unable to work or telework due to qualifying COVID-19 related
    reasons, as outlined in the regulations, are aware of their
    entitlements under the law.
        In accordance with OPM pandemic guidance, the Department
    allowed telework-eligible employees to telework to the maximum
    extent possible in order to maintain operations as close to
    normal as possible, while ensuring our employees' safety.
        Prior to and during the pandemic, telework eligibility at
    the Department requires that an employee's duties be suitable,
    in whole or in part, for performance at a telework site and
    that individual employees meet the additional criteria required
    by the Telework Enhancement Act, departmental policy, and our
    applicable collective bargaining agreements. Further,
    individual employee participation in telework is subject to
    supervisory approval, based on factors such as the business
    needs of the office, the cost of an arrangement, and the
    availability of technology and equipment required to support
    the duties of the position.
        DOL's recent implementation of enterprise-wide shared
    services for human resources and information technology
    supported and facilitated the Department's ability to quickly
    adapt to a posture of more remote work in response to the
    pandemic. More centralized HR allowed DOL to decisively expand
    the use of telework during the declared pandemic and implement
    any necessary HR policy changes to support those shifts in work
    arrangements.
        Similarly, DOL's implementation of a more centralized IT
    service delivery model allowed the Department to make the
    necessary policy changes and resource investments to ensure
    that DOL was able to adequately support the shift to more
    remote work.
        Telework participation at DOL requires completion of
    interactive telework training, available through the
    Department's internal learning development system.
    Additionally, the Department provides employees with
    supplemental telework resources, available on our intranet, as
    part of a helpful repository of coronavirus guidance and
    resources. The department is presently continuing to use
    telework to ensure its continuity of essential functions and to
    perform the bulk of its day-to-day operations.
        DOL is very proud of its work to implement a robust
    telework policy in response to the pandemic. We believe our
    efforts have helped the Federal workforce to achieve and
    maintain productivity and to serve the Department's mission and
    the American public.
        Thank you again for the opportunity to address the
    Subcommittee about the Department's work, and I look forward to
    answering your questions.
        Senator Lankford. Thank you. Mr. Borland.

    TESTIMONY OF JIM BORLAND,\1\ ASSISTANT DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOR
    SYSTEMS AND DEPUTY CHIEF INFORMATION OFFICER FOR IT OPERATIONS,
                     SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION

        Mr. Borland. Thank you. Good afternoon. Chairman Lankford,
    Ranking Member Sinema, Members of the Subcommittee, thank you
    for inviting me to discuss telework at the Social Security
    Administration. I am Jim Borland, the Assistant Deputy
    Commissioner for Systems and the Deputy Chief Information
    Officer for IT Operations.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Borland appears in the Appendix
    on page 61.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Social Security first began to offer remote work options
    around 20 years ago, when technology was much different and the
    solutions we had today were not widely available. Our online
    services were limited and our work was heavily paper-based.
        Since then, we have made significant progress in
    modernizing our workloads and IT infrastructure. We have
    implemented technology solutions that allowed us to be more
    agile, by replacing desktop computers with laptops, and
    building a virtual private network to improve our business
    continuity. We have also expanded our online presence to make
    it easier for our customers to do business with us without
    having to come into our offices. For our employees, we
    implemented electronic solutions that facilitate virtual and
    telework service environments. For example, technology allows
    employees to answer their office phones through their laptops.
        These decisions were practical, budget conscious, and made
    business sense from a customer service standpoint. When the
    unprecedented COVID-19 pandemic hit earlier this year, those
    decisions supported our ability to keep service going remotely.
    While we closed our offices to the public, we never stopped
    providing service, with over 90 percent of our employees able
    to telework. This maximal telework not only protects our
    employees but also the public we serve, many of whom, by
    definition of the work we do, meet the Centers for Disease
    Control and Prevention (CDC's) high-risk categories.
        Still, we know we can do better. Our goal is to serve the
    public at least as well as we serve them in person, and right
    now that is not possible because not all of our work is
    portable. For example, we need employees onsite to handle
    certain sensitive workloads that require face-to-face
    interviews, and to open mail and scan mailed documents into our
    systems so that teleworking technicians can process them.
        We have been able to find workarounds for some of our in-
    person services which has allowed us to address some of the
    challenges of serving the public remotely. We have also been
    flexible with policy. For example, in some cases, we are
    allowing telephone attestation as an alternative way to sign
    documents.
        At SSA, telework is not one size fits all. Some work does
    not inherently lend itself to telework. In non-emergency times,
    different jobs may warrant different amounts of telework, or in
    some cases no telework at all. We also have confirmed that a
    successful continuity of operations plan requires a robust
    telework program built on modernized IT infrastructure, and we
    have been reminded that we have more work to do to establish a
    fully robust telework program based on accountability and
    objective measures. This makes sense for the public we serve
    and our employees.
        The pandemic has delivered a real-time pressure test of our
    capability and it is helping us focus on where we can improve.
    I would like to thank the public, our employees, and you for
    being patient and supportive of us in this national emergency.
        I look forward to answering any questions you may have.
    Thank you.
        Senator Lankford. Jim, thank you very much.
        Senator Sinema and I have a habit in our hearings that we
    hold our questions to the end and we defer to the other Members
    to be able to add questions in. This will be an interesting
    dynamic just for the four witnesses to be able to participate
    in this. You will, at times, some Senators that will call you
    by name or title and will ask you a specific question, and they
    will sometimes be open to anyone who wants to answer it. I
    would encourage those who are joining us remotely to just
    unmute and just jump in if you want to be able to answer a
    question and feel like you are in the room with us as well, to
    be able to participate.
        With that I would recognize Senator Carper for his
    questions.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER

        Senator Carper. Can you recognize me with my mask on?
        Senator Lankford. I can.
        Senator Carper. Good. Here we go. Everybody, thanks so much
    for joining us today.
        I wanted to start off with a question of Mr. Borland, and
    this is actually a question, Mr. Borland, that was suggested to
    us by a member of our constituent services team back in
    Delaware. It goes something like this.
        As you know, the Social Security Administration requires
    physical inspection of original personal identification
    documents, such as birth certificates, in order to process
    certain kinds of requests to come in. Due to the pandemic, the
    Social Security Administration is currently asking people to
    send these original documents by mail, so they can undergo
    physical inspection.
        I have heard from a number of our constituents in Delaware
    that are concerned about mailing their original documents,
    specifically about the security of those documents and the
    timeliness for which they are returned.
        Mr. Borland, here is my question. Can you share with us how
    the Social Security Administration is working to address
    concerns of this nature? Thank you.
        Mr. Borland. Thank you, Senator Carper. Let me first say
    that we recognize that the pandemic has produced service
    challenges for us. You are correct. One of the requirements of
    our regulations is that for a new social security card or a
    social security card that reflects changes--name, for
    instance--we do require original documentation and the
    inspection of original documentation.
        We take protecting the integrity of the social security
    card and number very seriously. We do have, in some cases,
    limited ability to set appointments for individuals. Those
    opportunities are limited. We are forced, on a public health
    direction, to limit the number of employees that we have in our
    offices and to limit the numbers of the public that we provide
    in-person service to. Appointments are available for what we
    call the priority cases, and we are fulfilling that
    requirement.
        As I mentioned in my testimony, we do not have a workaround
    for all of our in-person services, and unfortunately the social
    security card is one of those. I also want to say that most
    Americans who need a replacement card can use our My Social
    Security service. They can go online at socialsecurity.gov, set
    up a My Social Security account, and request a no-change
    replacement card fully online.
        Senator Carper. Thank you, Jim.
        Mr. Washington, how many years have you worked at DOT?
        Mr. Washington. Senator, I have worked at the Department of
    Transportation for 29 years.
        Senator Carper. OK. Have you testified before at hearings
    where I was privileged to be in attendance?
        Mr. Washington. Sir, this is my first opportunity to
    testify.
        Senator Carper. How is it going?
        Mr. Washington. So far, so good.
        Senator Carper. When I was Governor, I used to love
    testifying before House and Senate hearings. I hope you enjoy
    this one as much as I did when I was sitting in your seat.
        I was encouraged to learn that the Department of
    Transportation has successfully moved its in-person onboarding
    program to a fully virtual format and that the flexibility of
    virtual onboarding allows more senior leaders to participate in
    the program.
        As you know, in the next couple of months we will have a
    new administration with thousands of new employees serving in
    the Federal Government. Could you take just a moment to explain
    how the Department of Transportation ensures that new employees
    have the resources and support they need to be successful
    during this time? The second half of my question is, do you
    have any recommendations for other agencies across the
    government with regard to newly onboarded employees? It is a
    two-part question, please. Thank you.
        Mr. Washington. Thank you, Senator, for that question. So
    at the onset of the pandemic, we reached out right away, our
    Human Capital Office, to our stakeholders and information
    technology, and we came up with a virtual onboarding
    experience. And as you stated, that really has allowed very
    senior levels of the Department to participate. In fact, we
    have successfully onboarded over 500 new Department of
    Transportation employees across the country, and they have been
    able to hear from the chief of staff. He actually personally
    participates in that virtual onboarding experience every other
    Monday. So that has worked very well.
        Another thing that we have done, recognizing the need that
    many of our employees are working in a remote environment, we
    have assigned a sponsor for all of our new employees so that
    they could really feel part of the team and that they can get
    best practices from, long-serving employees.
        So I think the collaboration between, human capital, our
    stakeholders, and the information technology organization has
    been really integral to rolling out that successful onboarding
    process so our employees across the country are getting that
    experience. So that would be my recommendation for other
    Federal agencies, that collaboration and partnership with the
    various elements of the organization.
        Senator Carper. I agree. Thank you. One last question if I
    can to Ms. Rose, Mr. Washington, and Mr. Borland, that deals
    with agency coordination with the Cybersecurity and
    Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) over at the Department of
    Homeland Security (DHS). Over the years, a number of my
    colleagues and I worked to give the Department of Homeland
    Security the resources necessary to carry out its cyber mission
    [inaudible]. One agency that I am most proud of with their
    mission, capabilities, and leadership is the Cybersecurity and
    Infrastructure Security Agency at the Department of Homeland
    Security.
        I often say if you want to go fast, go alone, and if you
    want to go far, go together. As I went through each of your
    testimonies I did not see much at all on interagency
    coordination with CISA, which I would presume would be
    incredibly valuable as they provide the cybersecurity tools,
    incident response services, and assessment capabilities to
    safeguard the [inaudible] networks.
        And I ask each of you, starting with Ms. Rose, to describe
    your relationship with CISA, and tell us if more needs to be
    done to improve interagency partnership in the cybersecurity
    space. Let's just start with Ms. Rose, and then Mr. Borland and
    Mr. Washington. Thank you. And if we run out of time, I always
    do. Just be brief.
        Ms. Rose. Oh, I am sorry, Senator. You wanted to start with
    me?
        Senator Carper. Ms. Rose.
        Ms. Rose. Yes. Information technology is not in my
    portfolio. However, I do work very closely with our chief
    information officer to make sure that as we onboard new
    employees and as we equip employees to move into a telework
    environment we are meeting all Federal cybersecurity
    requirements.
        Senator Carper. All right. Let us turn to Mr. Washington.
    Same question. Please describe your relationship with CISA. Is
    there more that needs to be done to improve interagency
    partnership in the cybersecurity space?
        Mr. Washington. Thank you, Senator, for that question. At
    the Department of Transportation we take cybersecurity very
    seriously, and we believe a lot of the investments and the
    coordination and centralization of a lot of our commodity IT,
    sort of centralizing and getting rid of duplicative systems,
    has really put us in a better posture, from a cyber
    perspective. We have promoted annual security awareness
    training, and we give weekly messages, just reminders of
    employees how to operate from a cybersecurity perspective in a
    remote environment.
        We also have issued laptops, DOT-issued laptops, to all of
    our remote employees, and they have security-monitoring
    software on them that alerts the user and DOT cyber officials
    if a threat is detected. We really have not noticed an increase
    in attacks during the pandemic.
        Senator Carper. All right. Thank you. I think my time has
    expired. Mr. Chairman, thank you so much for letting me go over
    time. Thank you. Mr. Borland, to be continued. Thank you.
        Senator Lankford. Thank you, Senator Carper. I am going to
    go next to Senator Sinema for questions.
        Senator Sinema. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. First I
    just want to thank our panelists again for their presentations
    today.
        I did note, Mr. Washington and Ms. Rose, in your testimony
    you highlighted a number of successes that your agencies have
    had in expanding telework during the pandemic, which I very
    much appreciated hearing about. I do find it slightly strange,
    though, that your agencies then insisted on you appearing
    before the Committee in person, which I am not sure is quite
    the message we want to send during this time of rising COVID
    cases. So just a thought for you to have as we move forward.
        My first question is for Mr. Borland. Before the pandemic,
    your agency reported it was moving away from telework because
    it could not evaluate the impact of telework on public services
    and did not have the metrics in place to ensure accountability.
    Today your agency is working to put these controls and metrics
    in place, and there are media reports that SSA employees are
    successfully decreasing the backlog of claims while in this
    maximum telework situation.
        So could you tell me, what has SSA learned about telework
    in recent months to cause it to change directions dramatically,
    and how do these learnings inform your decisions moving
    forward?
        Mr. Borland. Thank you for that question, Senator Sinema.
        So as I mentioned in my testimony, at SSA telework is not
    one size fits all. We obviously have a core public service
    function, but that manifests itself in many different kinds of
    work. Prior to the pandemic, we did re-evaluate our telework
    program to focus on accountability and to ensure that we could
    address our public service challenges. I think that we all
    recognize that the Social Security Administration is serving
    the 10,000 Baby Boomers that retire every day. So that is
    claims for Medicare, claims for retirement benefits.
        And public service has always been so very fundamental to
    our mission. So in the re-evaluation of our telework program,
    because we did not have historically adequate metrics, and as
    my colleague from GAO said, an adequate program evaluation,
    each subcomponent of the agency determined telework eligibility
    based on public service needs, the availability of portable
    work, and the ability to ensure accountability.
        Senator Sinema. Thank you. I have a follow-up question for
    you as well. One of the challenges of this pandemic has been
    recognizing that some jobs cannot be done fully or even
    partially through telework. Early in the pandemic, my Arizona
    casework team was fielding calls from constituents who were
    having a hard time getting social security cards replaced at
    their local field offices. Access to online-only services can
    be particularly difficult in rural areas or areas where access
    to a computer is limited.
        So how are you collecting and considering feedback from
    beneficiaries as you review the shift to maximum telework and
    assess these practices moving forward?
        Mr. Borland. Thank you. It is a perfect question to pose to
    me because I am a technology guy, and we are looking at new
    ways to use technology. I mentioned our nonportable work. Our
    nonportable work is not portable because there is not
    technology, or we have not laid in technology to support that.
    It is really one of the lessons learned from trying to serve
    the American public remotely.
        Specifically with regard to social security cards, we are
    looking at the use of technology, at video technology, and the
    ability to rather than inspect physically, for example,
    driver's license, to confirm a driver's license features
    through a data exchange, real time, so that we could use a
    combination of data exchange and video technology to handle
    social security card workloads. The technology is there, but
    until the pandemic, we were not looking at it. We are looking
    at it now very seriously.
        Senator Sinema. Thank you. I appreciate that.
        My next question is for Mrs. Rose. Mine Safety and Health
    Administration inspectors have to be onsite to perform
    inspections, but some portion of their jobs can be done
    remotely. Employees have shared with our Committee that they
    are not being granted permission for partial telework, and even
    more concerning, some employees are not asking their
    supervisors for telework over fears of retaliation.
        So how is DOL working to overcome longstanding prejudice
    against telework so that all employees who are eligible and
    able to perform telework can do so for at least a portion of
    their job, and what mechanisms is DOL using to allow employees
    to request telework and then report concerns about denial of
    telework without fear of retaliation?
        Ms. Rose. Senator Sinema, thank you so much for that
    question. I am very happy to report that 99 percent of DOL
    employees at this time are eligible for telework, and up to 98
    percent of our employees are teleworking almost every day. And
    that does include our mine safety inspectors and our other
    employees who work in the field, performing enforcement and
    inspection duties.
        We have encouraged our mine safety inspectors and our other
    field employees to telework to the maximum extent feasible.
    There are portions of their job that easily translate to a
    remote telework site or to a home site, and other portions of
    their job do require them to continue to remain in the field.
    We make sure that they have personal protective equipment (PPE)
    and they are properly equipped and trained when they have to go
    into public areas to perform inspection and enforcement duties,
    but we are also working very hard to make sure that those
    portions of their job that do not require them to be onsite are
    being done remotely, safely, and with social distancing.
        We meet on a regular, recurring basis with their union
    representatives to discuss their concerns and issues. Our
    Assistant Secretary for Administration and Management is
    meeting on a weekly basis with leadership and representatives
    of our three bargaining units to address the kinds of concerns
    that you are sharing today and to make sure that we have
    solutions and we work collaboratively with the union to craft
    those solutions.
        Senator Sinema. I appreciate that, and we may follow up
    with some of the concerns we have heard from employees as well.
        Ms. Rose. Thank you.
        Senator Sinema. My time is soon to expire but I have one
    last question for Mr. Washington. In May, Transportation's
    chief information officer was quoted in a Federal Times article
    that noted your agency as, ``absolutely seeing an increase in
    productivity,'' across the workforce. So how are you measuring
    these increases in productivity and to what do you attribute
    those increases to?
        Mr. Washington. So thank you so much for that question,
    Senator. We do believe that productivity has increased at the
    Department of Transportation under the remote environment, and
    we are very proud that the Department of Transportation
    employees have risen to the occasion.
        One example, we wanted really metrics for assessing
    productivity, so we did do a survey--to survey our managers,
    and we are proud to report that 55 percent of them felt that
    their work unit was even more effective during the COVID-19
    pandemic. So that is one metric that we used, the survey.
        But also I know when Congress approved the Coronavirus Aid,
    Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act, the Federal Transit
    Administration (FTA), they were able to obligate all of the
    funding to the stakeholders, over $24 billion, ahead of the
    statutory deadline. So there are numerous examples of the
    productivity enhancements as a result of the remote environment
    at the Department of Transportation. So we are continuing to
    assess that.
        Senator Sinema. Thank you so much, Mr. Washington.
        Mr. Chairman, I have slightly exceeded my time. I apologize
    and I yield back.
        Senator Lankford. That is not a problem. If you want to do
    a second round as well, Senator Sinema?
        Senator Sinema. Yes, I will. Thank you.
        Senator Lankford. OK. Great. We will make sure that we
    reserve that as well. I know that we have--Senator Rosen is
    joining us in just a moment. Let me ask a few questions until
    Senator Rosen is able to be able to join us remotely as well.
        Ms. Rosenberg, you have been left out in this conversation.
    I do not want you to feel left out on it, but I do want to be
    able to zero in on some of the things that GAO has established.
    Obviously, GAO has looked at this issue of telework for a long
    time. You have submitted to us some of the things that you have
    done in the study, but there is one statement that stuck out to
    me on it. In the statement from GAO, you said this about
    performance management: ``Agencies should also establish
    guidelines to minimize adverse impacts that telework can have
    on non-teleworkers.''
        So provide some clarity for us on agencies should establish
    guidelines to minimize adverse impacts that telework can have
    on non-teleworkers. What did you mean by that?
        Ms. Rosenberg. Thank you, Senator. We do not want to create
    disagreements between those who can telework and those who
    cannot, for example, by forcing those who are in the office to
    take up responsibilities of those that are teleworking, whether
    that means physically moving documents or doing work that
    cannot be done remotely. And so you want to make sure that if
    there are times that someone who is not teleworking needs to
    stand in for someone who is, that there is equity in that, so
    that responsibilities are shared across both those who telework
    and those who do not.
        Senator Lankford. So let me provide a little color to this
    in how I ask you this question. Several years ago, I was
    visiting one of our agencies, and I will leave the agency out
    as I do this. But I was visiting one of our agencies, and it
    happened to be on a Friday, just walking around through the
    cubicle farm in that particular entity and just talking to
    different employees there--How is it going? How is the morale?
    Anything I need to be able to learn and to be able to help
    with?
        In the dialog I heard repetitively, ``It is Friday, so half
    of our people are not here. They are quote/unquote teleworking
    today but I know they are just not working today,'' and they
    were angry. Just about every cubicle I went to, ``I am working
    hard. They took the day off but they say they are quote/unquote
    teleworking.''
        When I read that statement from you from GAO I thought I
    personally heard that, where individuals felt like they were
    carrying the burden. Now in the last several months just about
    everybody across the Federal workforce has been teleworking.
    There has not been an option here, back and forth. But in the
    days ahead we all look forward to the time we have a vaccine
    and we do have that option again. What would you recommend
    here? Because what I was picking up from people that were not
    teleworking was a sense that the people that were teleworking
    were not being held to account, that the same metrics were not
    being used for them for productivity as it was for those who
    were actually in the office, for productivity.
        Ms. Rosenberg. Thank you for that. One of the key practices
    that we emphasize is that the performance appraisal system and
    performance management needs to treat teleworkers and non-
    teleworkers the same. They need to be rated on the same
    competencies and judged accordingly.
        I think one of the issues is that telework requires a
    different way of managing staff. As opposed to managing by
    observation, you need to manage by results. We would also
    suggest that someone that you have a performance issue with,
    you are likely to have that performance issue with them
    regardless of whether they are teleworking or in the office.
        And finally, if there are concerns that someone that you
    cannot observe is not working, I would argue that that is not a
    telework issue but that is a trust issue. And again, that goes
    back to holding staff accountable for the results and the
    timeframe and the work product that they are supposed to
    produce, regardless of where they are working.
        Senator Lankford. OK. Thank you. Ms. Rose, I am going to
    ask you a similar question on that. At the Department of Labor,
    are your managers able to hold teleworkers to account, to be
    able to check in on them, evaluate, to be able to have metrics
    performances? This is not new to the Department of Labor. You
    have done telework for a very long time and you have a lot of
    workers that telework some days are in-office some days.
        What authorities does your management have, or I should say
    the opposite, what boundaries do they have in their management
    capabilities in the office versus in telework situations?
        Ms. Rose. Thank you, Senator Lankford. We have worked very
    hard with our managers and supervisors to make sure they feel
    equipped and supported to manage in a virtual environment. As
    you have acknowledged, it is different to supervise someone
    remotely than it is someone that you can see physically
    throughout the work day and check in on periodically.
        We have been able to leverage technology to replicate as
    much of a real-life experience as possible, just as we are
    doing today with a partially virtual hearing. We find that
    works very well. Our performance management system for years at
    DOL has been metrics based, and we really work hard to make
    sure that all employees' performance plans are linked to
    departmental and agency operating plans and contain
    quantifiable measures. I am delighted to report that we just
    completed our 2020 performance year and have noticed no
    appreciable decrease in productivity or achievement against
    those operating plan metrics, the whole time we have been
    teleworking.
        It also is interesting to note--and I think this goes back
    a little bit to perception versus reality--not a day goes by
    that I do not have managers and supervisors tell me how amazed
    and delighted they are at how well 99 percent telework is
    working. I always ask, ``What did you expect?'' and they stop
    and say, ``Well gee, I don't know, but I am just really
    surprised and happy that it is going so well.''
        So the training, the support, and the performance elements
    that we are holding employees to seem to be working.
        Senator Lankford. OK. Mr. Borland, I want to bring you into
    this conversation with Ms. Rose as well. Both of you deal with
    a lot of private information, more so than many other entities
    do. Obviously, every agency does some, but you deal with a lot,
    for both of your entities, not only from your employees dealing
    with that on a laptop that is now in a home environment rather
    than in a more controlled office environment. There are
    personal identifiable information (PII) issues that are there.
        But there is also, as we have mentioned already, which
    Senator Carper and Senator Sinema brought up, there are
    individuals trying to get access to you. I will tell you, Mr.
    Borland, I had the same calls in to my constituent services and
    caseworkers. Those calls have come in saying, ``I am trying to
    get a social security card replaced and I cannot get anyone
    there.'' We have an extra hurdle in Oklahoma that we are still
    trying to be able to get all of our Real ID stuff all worked
    out, and it has made it much more complicated, and physically
    putting documents in the mail and mailing them to you has been
    a challenge. For Department of Labor, I have had individuals
    that have contacted me that said, ``We love the flexibility
    that we have, because we have employees that we have hired
    remotely and we are not having to physically handle their
    documents this year. We are given authority to be able to
    virtually look at their license, virtually look at their birth
    certificate for an I-9.'' And their statement is, ``How do we
    keep that?''
        So there are really two sides of this--the dialogue both
    for the customer, for our taxpayers, to say how can they
    continue to get that kind of flexibility, and for the agency,
    how can they continue to be able to maintain private
    information as private and secure?
        So, Mr. Borland, you are the IT genius in this conversation
    and so I am going to let you take off on this first.
        Mr. Borland. Thank you, Senator. Certainly we do hold as
    custodians some very private information of the American public
    and very valuable information. While telework is not new for
    us, technology does give us opportunities to ensure the
    continued protection of that information.
        First, I think we were one of the first agencies to
    implement a two-factor authentication for our employees and our
    contractors. So we have logical and physical access through our
    personal identity verification cards. Our network monitoring is
    similar to, but not the same as, pre-pandemic. And when I say
    that, when you take a workforce that is connected to the wall
    and immediately swing it to connect it to the Internet, there
    are some specific challenges there. We were able to pivot and
    change the way we do things like scanning for vulnerabilities
    and remediating them.
        We also look at, from a program integrity standpoint, we
    have a longstanding process for monitoring transactions that
    take place within our systems to make sure that no one,
    employees or the public, are misusing the access to the systems
    that they have. Our employees, again, our information security
    policy is very clear. We do not allow bring your own device.
    Employees are not allowed to print at home. We have done
    extensive telework training and cybersecurity training for our
    remote workforce, and we think that has probably improved our
    security posture, although we do certainly have some unique
    challenges in being remote.
        Senator Lankford. Any thoughts that you have for the end
    user, for the taxpayer themselves, and their use of digital
    items to be able to submit. Are there statutory limitations of
    that or is it just technology limitations?
        Mr. Borland. There are some limitations, some regulatory,
    but technology can overcome some of those challenges. As I
    mentioned in my response to Senator Sinema's question, we are
    looking at how we can use data exchanges to verify identity
    documents so that they do not have to be physically produced.
        Senator Lankford. Ms. Rose, do you want to make a comment
    on this, as far as protecting private information, and then
    also giving the flexibility to individuals to be able to submit
    their information?
        Ms. Rose. Yes. Thank you, Senator Lankford. We have
    implemented many of these same security protocols that the
    Social Security Administration has in place. We are using
    personal information verification (PIV) for multi-factor
    authentication. We do not permit sensitive data to be accessed
    on anything but government-provided DOL computers, and people
    must use RSA tokens to log into our network. So we feel that we
    have an environment, and we work closely with our colleagues in
    the Information Technology Office to make sure that environment
    stays safe and secure.
        We have onboarded over 1,000 people now virtually since the
    pandemic started, and we have gotten extremely positive
    feedback from all of the users, the people who are being
    onboarded, the supervisors and managers who are welcoming new
    employees in. A lot of people have commented on the facility
    and ease of the application and onboarding process, because we
    have converted all of those paper-based forms and processes to
    the computer. And we have done away with wet signature
    everywhere we can. We are using digital signatures now. We
    provide the oath of office virtually. We will probably continue
    that process, with lessons learned, beyond the pandemic. It has
    been so successful and it has made face-to-face contact with
    people who are remotely duty-stationed much more effective and
    vibrant.
        Senator Lankford. OK. We are going to come back to that as
    well. I want to recognize Senator Sinema for a second round of
    questions.
        Senator Sinema. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Ms. Rosenberg, one thing I have noticed regarding Federal
    telework policies is that they vary based across agencies, and
    even sometimes within offices inside agencies. So it makes it
    pretty confusing for Federal employees and challenging for
    Congress to track.
        Are there recommendations that you would make to Congress
    to better standardize agency policies and the tracking of those
    policies as we look at telework in a post-pandemic world?
        Ms. Rosenberg. Thank you, Senator. That is a very good
    question.
        So one of our key practices is that eligibility be based
    on--approved on--an equitable basis, and that the criteria be
    things such as the suitability of tasks to the remote
    environment and employee performance. So I think the key is to
    ensure that agencies have concrete eligibility criteria that
    are based on those types of things and that are applied
    consistently across the agency.
        I would say that it would make sense that there would be
    some variation among agencies since their missions differ and
    the type of work differs, and, of course, some positions are
    less suitable for remote or telework than others.
        Senator Sinema. Thank you. Ms. Rose, given the broad
    success of telework during the pandemic, how are you
    approaching plans to move employees back onsite once this
    public health emergency is over, and what data are you
    examining to ensure that onsite work is safe and essential?
        Ms. Rose. We have worked very hard and long, Senator
    Sinema, on our reconstitution plans, our reopening plans, as it
    were. We will take a phased approach. We will follow State and
    local guidelines in doing that and follow the government-
    prescribed gating criteria to bring people back.
        We have already put safety procedures and protocols in
    place in all of our government office space, things that
    include the wearing of masks in public and common spaces. We
    have put in Plexiglas barriers and shields so that people who
    face the public in the office are protected, and the public is
    protected. We have set up seating schematics so that people in
    cubicle farms are not working on top of each other or directly
    next to each other. So we will continue to leverage telework
    with an onsite presence in order to maximize social distancing
    in what traditionally have been fairly close working spaces,
    with cubicles, and the movement away from traditional four-wall
    offices.
        So we have gotten a lot of information about safety and
    security out to our workforce already. Everything is posted on
    our Intranet. We will continue to work with our labor unions
    and our employees as we move back into a more traditional work
    posture, to make sure people feel safe, secure, and protected,
    and, in fact, are safe, secure, and protected.
        Senator Sinema. Thank you. Another question for you. Your
    agency is unique in that not only were you transitioning your
    own employees to maximum telework but you were also releasing
    guidance to the nation's broader labor force about telework
    policies and best practices. I realize that private sector
    guidance is not your area of expertise, but I would like to
    follow up with your agency on this topic.
        Ms. Rose. Yes. Guidance on telework external to the Federal
    Government has been provided, it is my understanding, by our
    Wage and Hour Division, and we would be happy to get you that
    information.
        Senator Sinema. I appreciate that. Now focusing on the
    Department of Labor's workforce, can you share any instances
    where work you initially thought had to be done in an office
    space ended up being compatible with telework? Are any of these
    instances relative to changing Labor's view of determining
    telework eligibility?
        Ms. Rose. We had a higher percentage of the people whose
    jobs were not considered telework eligible under the Telework
    Enhancement Act prior to the pandemic, and our managers and
    supervisors have worked to see how those positions can be
    reformatted, how duties and responsibilities can be
    reallocated, and how technology can be leveraged, for example,
    using data on forms that used to be paper that have now been
    converted to digital so that we could send more of our
    employees home to work during the pandemic.
        We have very few jobs that require an in-office, onsite
    presence, jobs like receptionist, jobs like mail clerk, jobs
    like building engineer. And even with those positions we have
    tried to find duties and responsibilities that are discrete and
    unique and compatible to moving into a remote work environment,
    even if it is part-time.
        Senator Sinema. Thank you.
        Mr. Washington, in your testimony you noted that your
    agency was considering a new remote work policy before the
    pandemic. Looking ahead, I think as we all are, to a non-
    pandemic situation, what advantages will a robust remote work
    policy bring to your agency, and what barriers do you foresee
    in implementing such a policy?
        Mr. Washington. So thank you, Senator, for that question.
    We were considering, even prior to the pandemic, a remote
    policy, and we are continuing to assess that. But one of the
    rationales for it was to help us with the ability to recruit
    and retain talent. And what we found, particularly in the
    national capital area where we compete for HR specialists and
    acquisition specialists among each other--I see my colleague at
    Labor nodding her head--that has been a challenge. So we are
    hoping that if we can broaden the applicant pool nationwide
    that we can really recruit and retain employees at a better
    rate, so that it will really improve our attrition.
        So that is our rationale. We are continuing to assess that.
    We have learned a lot over the last few months. So we tried to
    make that business case before going forward with our remote
    policy. We are benchmarking with the private sector and our
    stakeholders and counterparts at other Federal agencies as
    well.
        Senator Sinema. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, that concludes my
    round of questioning, and thank you for holding this hearing
    again. I have learned so much.
        Senator Lankford. Thank you. Thanks for your participation
    in the hearing as well and your engagement on this.
        Mr. Washington, I want to continue to press this, and
    actually I want to talk to all four of you on this one issue,
    and it is about hiring. It is a shift in perspective, because
    many of the telework individuals are really people that are
    connected to the office and they telework 1 day a week, 2 days
    a week, 3 days a week, but they are in the office, or maybe
    they are in the office once a month or whatever it may be. But
    there is a physical connection here.
        There is a paradigm shift in the conversation to say we
    have now learned that we cannot only telework 5 days a week but
    we can do that month after month after month, and it begs the
    basic question, why couldn't you hire someone in Oklahoma to be
    able to do a task for an agency that is based in Washington,
    DC.? What is the difference between Washington, DC, Northern
    Virginia, Oklahoma, and Arizona for actually bringing people on
    board? And the practical answer is there is not one.
        It also brings up a significant job opportunity to, let's
    say, spouses of our military, which often are working in very
    remote areas. By definition a base or post is very far from
    another area and there are very few jobs available. But they
    could work at Department of Transportation in a telework
    situation even if they are in beautiful, fabulous Altus,
    Oklahoma, where there are not as many jobs available in that
    area, because it is a remote training area.
        So that is whether you are Border Patrol and you are
    assigned to the Northern Border in North Dakota, in a remote
    area, and you are a spouse and you do not have any options, or
    whether you are a military spouse or whatever it may be. This
    opens up a lot of options for those spouses, to be able to help
    those other Federal families, not to mention a lot of other
    people that want to work in other areas.
        So I want to drill down, and be as specific as you can.
    What would prohibit you, either in the regulatory space or the
    statutory requirements, or just in practical engagement, from
    not hiring people that you literally never plan to meet, or if
    you do plan to meet it may be an annual meeting at some point
    in the future. But you are talking about onboarding,
    supervising, working at a distance, with no intention that they
    will drive in once a week, to be able to ever connect with the
    office on that. What would prohibit that?
        So Mr. Washington, you are first.
        Mr. Washington. Thank you so much for your comments, and
    that is so interesting that you mention military spouses
    because I just had that conversation with a colleagues a couple
    of weeks ago. Because, with a lot of military spouses you bring
    the person on board, you train them, they are an excellent
    employee, and then the veteran is deployed somewhere, and you
    do not want to lose your investment.
        So we have been flexible, even pre-pandemic, at the
    Department of Transportation, with allowing employees to
    transition and work remotely. We are hoping, as a result of a
    lot of our lessons learned from the health emergency that
    managers would be more receptive.
        I think it is more of a culture change, and we are
    compiling a lot of the data, assessing metrics, to build that
    business case to have a more rigorous remote work policy. But I
    think a lot of it is culture change.
        Senator Lankford. So there is not anything regulatory or
    statutory right now that you could not do that today. Or let's
    say we are post pandemic, that you could not do that in just a
    decision you want to make?
        Mr. Washington. I am not aware of regulatory or statutory
    barriers. In fact, there could be cost savings. I mean, if the
    employee is working in Oklahoma or a rural area where the cost
    of living and the locality pay is cheaper, there could actually
    be cost savings associated with that.
        Senator Lankford. That is correct. I would think the exact
    same thing. I am grateful to say that Oklahoma has a much lower
    cost of living than Northern Virginia, so hiring people out of
    Northern Virginia rather than hiring people out of Oklahoma or
    so many other great States around the country, there is a cost
    savings there, and plus there is a ready workforce that may be
    interested in being able to take that on and another group of
    people you could recruit from.
        Ms. Rose, talk about this on the hiring side of this. Why
    wouldn't that work and what are the barriers that you see?
        Ms. Rose. It absolutely would work, and it does work. We
    had already started making that shift at the Labor Department
    just as the Transportation Department has. It was a paradigm
    shift for some of our managers and supervisors who now had
    their eureka moment, like, this is working really well and now,
    suddenly, I have an applicant pool that is the entire United
    States, not just the Washington, DC. metro area.
        We are routinely announcing jobs at this time for all
    locations, no longer just a Washington, DC. duty station or a
    Chicago, Illinois duty station, but considering everyone in the
    country. In the Office of Human Resources itself, about a third
    of my staff is 100 percent remote telework, and that will
    continue permanently beyond the pandemic, because of where they
    are located and where they are working.
        I just had an employee in my office whose husband was
    posted to Germany, and she was going to accompany him to
    Frankfurt, obviously. She is still working for us, I am happy
    to report, and will continue to work for me full-time for his
    entire 3-year assignment in Germany.
        It is the best, and we have found that employees outside
    the Washington, DC. area stay longer. They are happy to stay
    working with the agency that recruited them and hired them.
    Employment in the government in Washington tends to be a
    revolving door, and we just steal people from each other, and
    it goes around and around and around. I am delighted that we
    can now access a much bigger applicant pool of very qualified
    people.
        Senator Lankford. OK. Thank you. Mr. Borland?
        Mr. Borland. Thank you, Senator. I think looking across
    government we know that the Patent and Trademark Office has
    been doing this for years, and so I do not believe there are
    any regulatory or statutory barriers to permanently out-
    stationing or having kind of work-from-anywhere situation.
        I think that we have learned, at Social Security, that
    whether it be provisioning security credentials, laptops or
    cellphones, providing training, that work can be done remotely.
    The workforce can be remote. We have been addressing
    challenges, public service challenges on our 800 number, and we
    have new 800 number agents that received all of their
    equipment, their security credentials, their onboarding, their
    orientation, and their training remotely, and they are working
    from home.
        Senator Lankford. Ms. Rosenberg, let me refine this
    question, not only just for your agency as well, but
    Washington, DC. is one of the most expensive real estate areas
    in the country. Is there a potential that this could be a cost-
    savings issue that agencies could, if they worked through the
    process, determine I do not need as big of a footprint here in
    Washington, DC. to be able to hire on people, knowing I am
    going to assume I am going to add 25 percent or 20 percent or
    40 percent, whatever the number is, agency to agency, that
    could be hired anywhere in the world, at this point from any
    American citizens? Is that something that you would see that
    would be a change and shift here in D.C. as well, in how we
    actually manage things? I know that is much a General Services
    Administration (GSA) question, but I have GAO in front of me
    rather than GSA right now, so I am asking you first.
        Ms. Rosenberg. I think there is certainly the potential for
    cost savings, I think in two ways. One is that individual
    salaries are based on their official duty station, and if their
    official duty station is their home or a telework location that
    is in a less-expensive area, then salaries could be reduced.
    And it also could mean savings for agencies in terms of space.
    I know when GAO moved to expanded telework it enabled us to
    reduce our footprints, both in our regional offices and reduced
    the amount of leased space, as well as in our headquarters
    building. It enabled us to rent out parts of our headquarters
    building to other agencies since we had less people who needed
    physical space in the building.
        Senator Lankford. Senator Rosen, I see that you are there
    now as well. I would love for you to be able to join in the
    conversation, and let me open this up to you for questions.

                   OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROSEN

        Senator Rosen. Thank you, Senator Lankford. I am really
    happy that you have held the second hearing on telework because
    really our Federal workforce, particularly how they are coping
    with the stresses of the pandemic, but they still have to
    deliver the services that everyone needs, and deliver them out
    to the American people in the way that is best. So I am really
    glad we are coming together in a bipartisan way to figure out
    how we do this.
        I want to talk a little bit about cybersecurity, because
    with millions of Federal and private sector workers navigating
    the transition from an office environment to their home,
    obviously because of COVID-19, maintaining cybersecurity while
    teleworking, it is imperative for our national security,
    really. Small organizations, in particular, face challenges
    like resource constraints and protecting themselves from
    increasingly sophisticated cyber threats like ransomware. We
    know how destructive that can be and how frightening that is
    for companies when that happens, or agencies.
        So to address this vulnerability, just this very afternoon
    I introduced bipartisan legislation, along with Senator Moran,
    that requires CISA, in coordination with the Federal Trade
    Commission (FTC), to publish a network of telework-related
    cybersecurity best practices for small organizations, including
    small businesses, nonprofits, and small governmental
    jurisdictions. Those could be our school districts, and we have
    had issues with ransomware attacks on school districts, of
    course, in my State, and I know across the country.
        However, even large Federal agencies are facing
    unprecedented cybersecurity challenges now that, like you say,
    the majority of your workforces are working virtually. Ms.
    Rosenberg, can you tell us what you assess to be the most
    significant and most prevalent challenges Federal agencies may
    be facing when they are implementing telework-related
    cybersecurity practices? And you know that National Institute
    of Standards and Technology (NIST) and CISA, we have put out
    guidelines and done a lot of work on that. How can we assure
    that those best practices are reaching particularly our Federal
    workforce?
        Ms. Rosenberg. Thank you, Senator Rosen. What I could say
    to you is that we have ongoing work. Our information technology
    and cybersecurity team has initiated work that is looking at
    what selective Federal agencies experiences have been in
    implement IT telework solutions in response to the pandemic,
    and to what extent the selected agencies addressed Federal
    information security guidance when implementing those
    solutions. That work is still in its initial phases, but the
    team expects to issue something this summer.
        Senator Rosen. Thank you. Anyone else want to talk about
    the cybersecurity practices and the challenges you have had, or
    how we can help best respond and overcome those cybersecurity
    challenges, as you are protecting, obviously, personal
    information, particularly our Social Security Administration.
        Mr. Borland. Senator Rosen, if I may, I am Jim Borland from
    the Social Security Administration. Thank you for that
    question. I want to emphasize, and getting back to something
    that Senator Carper said earlier, that our agency has a very
    close and productive working relationship with CISA. Obviously,
    cybersecurity is of critical importance to the American public
    when it comes to protecting their personal information, and
    Social Security has one of the largest repositories of that
    information in government.
        We have found the concept of having CISA to be so
    incredibly helpful, because they have the ability to do threat
    assessment and intelligence gathering, that even as a large
    Federal agency, would take many resources and would be
    duplicative. So when we get a binding operational directive
    from CISA, we know that it has been thoroughly researched, it
    is a real threat. They give us advice as to what to do, and our
    role is just to get it done. And so in that regard the advice,
    the direction that we get from CISA really has a major role to
    play in improving and sustaining strong cybersecurity posture.
        Senator Rosen. That is fantastic. I cannot see everyone
    there, if there is anyone else that wants to respond to that.
    Otherwise I do have one other question in my remaining time. Of
    course, as we know, the general public, they are depending on
    our Federal agencies for our vital services, our social
    security checks, like you say, our VA benefits, so many things
    that they are going to benefit all of us in the long run, and
    maintenance of our public lands even.
        So particularly at the time when reliable information about
    public health and safety is so important, we have to have the
    public trust our Federal agencies to offer fast services and
    accurate responses. So anyone who would like to address this,
    can you talk about how you have met the pandemic's challenges
    in terms of providing public services, customer service,
    especially that aspect of your agency's mission, as you are
    missing out on some of the face-to-face. What kind of
    adaptations did you have to make, and really, I know there are
    benefits but what are we missing or what can we help you do
    better, because some things do get lost in translation when you
    are maybe just on the phone.
        So maybe Mr. Borland, if you want to speak about that.
        Mr. Borland. Thank you, Senator. I would be happy to. So
    when the pandemic was declared by the World Health
    Organization, we pretty quickly swung to maximum telework, but
    we also made the decision to close our offices. As I mentioned
    in my opening remarks, we serve a population that is
    particularly vulnerable to COVID-19; and because of the nature
    of the work that we are doing [audio difficulties-inaudible]
    across America. You need to protect not only employees but the
    public.
        We made the decision to close our offices, but we swung
    immediately to a public information campaign to make sure that
    local communities knew that while our physical buildings were
    closed that our employees were working, that they could be
    reached at the phone number for their local Social Security
    Office, and if you have a claims representative that you worked
    with at that office you can reach that claims representative.
        Our 800-number service had some different challenges, ones
    that we were able to overcome pretty quickly. We had a
    situation where we have a legacy telephone platform, and only
    25 percent of our employees that work in our teleservice
    centers were equipped to telework. We quickly re-engineered a
    solution that would allow the 800-number employees to use the
    system that is used in our field offices, so we could quickly
    telework-enable all of our 800-number agents.
        I am happy to say we just ended our fiscal year (FY), and
    we met our average speed of answer goal for our 800 number. It
    is not as low as we want it to be and we are going to keep
    working hard to continue to provide better service to the
    public.
        Senator Rosen. Thank you. I know my time is just about up,
    but I know it is always--speaking from my own experience,
    whenever you try to do something with customer service it is
    nice to be able to get to a person. And then if you have to
    call back again, particularly with some things with social
    security perhaps, that the ability to have continuity with the
    same person is really important in resolving a case without
    having to revisit it and re-litigate it, and satisfaction for
    everyone.
        So I appreciate it and I yield back my time. Thank you,
    Senator Lankford.
        Senator Lankford. Senator Rosen, thank you.
        I do want to ask a couple more questions here. Ms. Rose,
    you talked before about onboarding and those lessons learned.
    Obviously, that is one of the challenges that we have all
    discussed. It is a very different dynamic onboarding someone
    you have never met, your manager is not interacting with on a
    daily basis, and the challenge that you have typically when you
    land in the middle, as you and I have both said, the cubicle
    farm, and you do not know how to fill out a certain form or to
    be able to do a certain process, you turn to the person next to
    you and they kind of help you through that.
        You do not have that at this point when you are working
    remotely. You do not know the people that you work around. You
    do not know who else to be able to call on the team that is
    also doing this same job, to be able to help you in the
    process. You do not even know your manager and your manager
    does not know you.
        So what lessons have you learned at this point, and I would
    be interested in any of the other of the three of you, if you
    have specific ideas on this issue about onboarding, mentoring,
    helping people in the earliest days to be able to be a
    productive, valued part of a team, what lessons you have
    learned in this. Because if we are going to start hiring people
    no matter where they live, then we are going to have to take
    what we learned during this time period and to be able to
    accelerate that in a broader perspective.
        So anyone can answer that question. If you have additional
    insight, jump in. But I would like Ms. Rose to go first.
        Ms. Rose. Thank you, Senator Lankford. That is such an
    important point and it is a vital lesson learned. We knew very
    early on that we would have to stay very engaged with our
    employees if we are not going to be physically co-located with
    them. We have provided training to managers and supervisors on
    how to manage and supervise in a virtual environment, and quite
    frankly, we have really leveraged information technology to
    every extent possible to try to replicate a real-time, face-to-
    face experience for our employees and for our supervisors. So
    we are using programs like Teams and Skype so that people can
    have conversations in person, digitally, and see one another,
    because that really makes a difference in getting to know
    someone.
        We have also tried to replicate some of our morale-boosting
    experiences in a virtual environment. We are going to launch
    our Secretary's Honor Award ceremony tomorrow, and it is going
    to be conducted completely virtually, but it will be streamed
    out so that all of our employees can participate and send
    congratulations to their colleagues, just as they would if we
    were having the ceremony in our auditorium.
        It takes a lot of effort and you have to rethink the way
    you do things, but technology has given us the ability to be
    almost as good as being there if we try and we use it.
        Senator Lankford. OK. So can I ask just a follow-up
    question on that as well?
        Ms. Rose. Sure.
        Senator Lankford. As you are gathering all this information
    and these ideas and you have new training modules and
    everything else, are the CHCOs sharing that with each other or
    is every agency kind of developing their own structure, their
    own idea, because everyone is ramping up through this time
    period? How much collaboration is there agency to agency to
    say, we have found this module to be really good for training
    new employees, we have found this to be really good for
    onboarding, we have found this metric to be really good for
    measuring performance and evaluating this in the remote
    setting.
        So I am just asking the question, is collaboration
    happening at this point, at what level? I am not expecting us
    to be perfect at this yet because we all trying to figure it
    out. But has that started, and if so, what does it look like?
        Ms. Rose. I am pleased to report it has started. We have
    weekly CHCO collaborative calls that all of the Executive
    Branch agencies participate in. We have not done as much
    sharing of lessons learned as I think we will coming out of
    this, because as you have acknowledged, we are still kind of in
    the thick of it. And we talk to each other on a case-by-case,
    individual basis. We know each other. It is a small community,
    and the collaboration vehicle is there for us to make more use
    of it as we gain more experience and have time to share lessons
    learned.
        Senator Lankford. OK. That would be very helpful. And if we
    can participate in that, we want to be able to help in that
    process. Senator Sinema and I are very engaged in this, along
    with the rest of our Committee. What I do not want to have is a
    contractor pull together a really good training module and sell
    it to you, and sell it to you, and sell it to you, and to you,
    and suddenly the taxpayer is not getting good bang for the buck
    because one contractor created something that is really good
    and now they are selling it all over the place to everyone,
    when we could actually buy that license once and use it
    governmentwide if we choose to on that.
        OK. Mr. Washington, do you have anything to add to this?
        Mr. Washington. The one additional thing I would add is
    that we have identified a sponsor for any new staff, I mean,
    even before they come on board, so they could have that as a
    resource that they could reach out to. And the sharing of best
    practices and the collaboration, that has really been integral
    to our success at the Department of Transportation. I mean, we
    have 54,000 employees all over the country, so when the
    pandemic hit we started weekly meetings with our HR directors,
    and they were able to raise challenges and talk about best
    practices. So that has been very integral to our success.
        Senator Lankford. OK. Mr. Borland, do you have anything you
    want to add?
        Mr. Borland. It is a technology solution that we found to
    be particularly helpful, but a pretty rudimentary one, and it
    is persistent chatrooms. In other words, giving folks kind of
    that water cooler place to check in during the day, to ask
    questions, to touch base. We have found it to be very effective
    in keeping those connections that we are all used to from our
    physical work space and perpetuating them.
        We also make widespread use of video teleconferencing, for
    meetings. I think many people have forgotten how to use their
    telephones because they are so used to just clicking on someone
    and calling them.
        So there is lots of great technology out there, but the
    important part of the use of the technology is the human aspect
    of it. It is that human connection. That is why we are moving
    toward video as well as audio, to make that human connection.
    We have all been isolated a long time, and it is frankly really
    good to see my colleagues from time to time.
        Senator Lankford. You know what? I cannot begin to tell you
    the number of times I have heard, in the last few months, when
    I ran into someone in person at some spot, that their first
    response is, ``It is so nice to see a person.'' And so I get
    that.
        Ms. Rosenberg, anything that you want to be able to add to
    this as well?
        Ms. Rosenberg. I would certainly echo the sentiments that
    my colleagues made, that maintaining that social connectedness
    and being creative in the way you do it is very important.
        I think the one thing I would add is that as part of this
    continuing communication is that employees' needs change over
    time, and so you need to adapt as the employees' needs are
    changing. I think we have certainly learned that as the
    pandemic has lasted longer than I think any of us had hoped,
    that we have had to adjust the types of resources we provide to
    staff and how we outreach to them as the situations that they
    are facing change.
        Senator Lankford. I appreciate that very much, and you are
    right. This has lasted much longer than any of us had thought
    or hoped. I distinctly remember conversations in early March
    saying by Easter, and then we would fill in the blank after
    that. We did not realize it was Easter 2021. But it is just the
    reality of where we are today.
        I have about 9 hours more of questions for each of you, but
    you will all be glad to know that a vote has been called and so
    I am not going to be able to do 9 hours more of questions with
    you. But I very much appreciate your insight.
        Let me ask one favor of all of you. As you work through
    this process you are going to bump into regulations and the
    statutory prohibitions of things that you think, this really
    needs to be done. This is the Committee that will work on those
    things. So when you run into the statutory problems and issues,
    or regulatory issues, would you please make sure you actually
    share them with us and not assume that Congress does not care
    to hear this. We do. We are just not doing the same thing you
    are doing all day, every day. We are not going to see it at the
    same level you are.
        So when you see those statutory barriers, or you see a
    regulatory issue that needs to be addressed, please make sure
    you share it back with our Committee. We are going to continue
    to be able to work on this, because this is a paradigm shift
    for how we work as the Federal Government. We are opening up a
    much larger pool of individuals that are eligible to be able to
    work with us, and with greater flexibility on some of the tasks
    that we have.
        We will always have in-person, and we should always be here
    in Washington, DC, with our agency heads and all of those
    things, to be able to interact for those face-to-face meetings
    that need to occur. But we have millions of people around the
    country that would love to be able to serve their country by
    serving in one of these agencies, and I would love for them to
    be able to have the opportunity to be able to do that as well,
    and to be able to compete, to end up on someone's list as the
    well-qualified candidate that happens to live in Altus,
    Oklahoma, and they get the opportunity to be able to compete
    for those tasks as well.
        I look forward to ongoing dialogue about these issues, and
    please make sure that you continue to be able to keep that
    communication going with our team, as we are pulling together
    different ideas. Senator Sinema and I have already started the
    conversation about legislation that may be needed or helpful in
    this process as well. But as you have ideas, and your
    legislative team has ideas, please make sure those actually get
    shared with us on a timely basis.
        That concludes today's hearing. I am very grateful, again,
    for the witnesses that are here and for the time that you have
    been able to share with us, all four of you. Thank you for
    that.
        The hearing record will remain open for 15 days until the
    close of business on Thursday, December 3rd, which it is hard
    to believe 15 days from now we are into December, but we are.
    That will be for the submission of statements and questions for
    the record.
        Thank you again very much for your continued service, as
    you have done for a very long time, and we look forward to
    getting the chance to be able to work together on this. This
    hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 4:45 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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