[Senate Hearing 116-376]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 116-376

            THE IMPACTS OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC ON 
             USERS OF PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND NA-
             TIONAL PARKS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                     ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             JULY 23, 2020

                               __________

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                       Printed for the use of the
               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                               __________
 
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
40-922                     WASHINGTON : 2021                     
          
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               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                    LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
MIKE LEE, Utah                       MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
STEVE DAINES, Montana                BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
CORY GARDNER, Colorado               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
MARTHA McSALLY, Arizona              ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee           CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota

                      Brian Hughes, Staff Director
                      Lucy Murfitt, Chief Counsel
            Nick Matiella, Senior Professional Staff Member
                 Renae Black, Democratic Staff Director
                Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
                David Brooks, Democratic General Counsel
                     Darla Ripchensky, Chief Clerk
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Alaska....     1
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from 
  West Virginia..................................................     3

                               WITNESSES

Hepler, Hon. Kelly R., Secretary, South Dakota Department of 
  Game, Fish and Parks, on Behalf of the Association of Fish and 
  Wildlife Agencies..............................................     6
Kemper, Douglas, Executive Director, Colorado Water Congress.....    25
Lane, Ethan L., Vice President of Government Affairs, National 
  Cattlemen's Beef Association...................................    56
Shafroth, Will, President & CEO, National Park Foundation........    64
Turner, Jessica (Wahl), Executive Director, Outdoor Recreation 
  Roundtable.....................................................    76

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Appalachian Trail Conservancy:
    Letter for the Record........................................   109
Hepler, Hon. Kelly R.:
    Opening Statement............................................     6
    Written Testimony............................................     9
Kemper, Douglas:
    Opening Statement............................................    25
    Written Testimony............................................    27
Lane, Ethan L.:
    Opening Statement............................................    56
    Written Testimony............................................    58
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
    Opening Statement............................................     3
Martin, Tom:
    Letter for the Record........................................   159
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
Shafroth, Will:
    Opening Statement............................................    64
    Written Testimony............................................    66
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................   106
Turner, Jessica (Wahl):
    Opening Statement............................................    76
    Written Testimony............................................    78
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................   108

 
THE IMPACTS OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC ON USERS OF PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, 
                           AND NATIONAL PARKS

                              ----------                              


                        THURSDAY, JULY 23, 2020

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:21 a.m. in 
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Lisa 
Murkowski, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

    The Chairman. Good morning everyone, the Committee will 
come to order. We are a few members shy this morning, including 
my Ranking Member. As you know, we are in the beginning of a 
series of votes this morning that just began at ten o'clock. So 
you will see a little bit of disruption in addition to the 
hybrid look of today's hearing, but as we do here in the 
Senate, we improvise and we are flexible. My hope this morning 
is that we will be able to open the hearing and hear from our 
witnesses before we get interrupted again for a second vote. We 
appreciate the flexibility of our witnesses and welcome each of 
you.
    We are here this morning to examine the impact of the 
COVID-19 pandemic on users of our public lands, our national 
forests and our treasured national parks. Five months ago the 
novel Coronavirus became a global pandemic, changing nearly 
every aspect of life as we know it. Public health intervention 
measures were necessary to try to slow the spread of the virus, 
but they have also impacted the use, the management and the 
enjoyment of our federal lands.
    So let's start with our national parks. They normally 
attract more than 120 million visitors from March through July. 
In a typical year, visitors spend $21 billion on travel, 
lodging, food and shopping inside our parks and in our 
neighboring gateway communities. Now obviously this is not a 
normal year and the numbers certainly show it. Visitation is 
down 22 percent in our national parks. Fewer visitors means 
less income and employment for rural tourism dependent on small 
businesses. The National Park Hospitality Association forecasts 
a 46 percent decline in revenue for hundreds of park 
concessionaires this year. I think we recognize that sadly some 
of these smaller businesses will not survive.
    I saw several examples of these impacts myself over the 
Fourth of July recess when I was back home in Alaska. I had an 
opportunity to visit Denali National Park and Katmai National 
Park. On my way into Denali I stopped in the community of 
Talkeetna, just outside the park. This is a community that 
relies very, very heavily on that summer tourism--those 
tourists who want to come up to see Denali but also those who 
go climbing on the mountain, the entire climbing season was cut 
off this year. I was able to talk with the owner of a 
flightseeing company. They provide aviation services and 
spectacular flyovers of the mountain and ferry our hunters 
around during the fall season. Their situation is pretty dire 
right now. They were not able to receive a PSP loan. They are 
very, very worried that they are not going to make it through 
the end of the year. Normally they operate during this part of 
the season. They operate upwards of 20 planes on any given day. 
They only have three in circulation now. I mean, that is 
significant. If you only have three aircraft, that means you 
have fewer pilots. You have fewer maintainers. It just trickles 
all throughout.
    And that business is not alone. I heard the same from other 
small businesses within the community. I visited a small 
boating company. They offer tours up the river. They were only 
operating two or three boats up the Talkeetna, again, at a time 
when they and their crews would just be going gangbusters at 
this point in time. I stopped by the local brewery there in 
Talkeetna, one of the largest employers in that community. They 
have seen a 60 percent decline in revenue. Then at Katmai, I 
had an opportunity to speak with the concessionaires there at 
Brooks Lodge. They are providing only day services rather than 
the overnight accommodations. They are going to be looking to 
see if it is possible to adjust that for a very brief window, 
maybe a month or so. But again, this is a lodge that normally 
would be booked solid for months and months in advance. These 
businesses bear the burden of trying to bring in enough revenue 
to break even or just survive while also welcoming visitors and 
ensuring safe, socially distancing operations. I was encouraged 
as I was in the parks to see almost everyone wearing masks. 
They were adhering to the public health mandates, even in these 
very, very remote areas.
    Outdoor recreation has also taken a big hit in our national 
forests. The outfitter and guide businesses that operate on 
these lands are often seasonal, small mom and pop shops that 
really rely on the visitor travel, and the loss of customers 
during the peak season has just been devastating. And in 
speaking with so many of them, they are looking at having to, 
again, discontinue their services entirely. I think it is 
important, particularly in a place like Alaska where whether it 
is your national parks or your national forests and the 
visitation, our visitation is May through the end of September. 
Beyond that, you just don't see people visiting in Katmai in 
November. You don't see people visiting as tourists in the 
Tongass in February. It just doesn't happen. So for those who 
say we just need to flatten this curve and get beyond it and 
everything is going to be okay, for our industry, for our 
sector here, it is gone. It is done for 2020. And they are 
worried whether they can survive through the beginning of the 
season in 2021. This is very, very real and, of course, it is 
not just for us in Alaska.
    I mentioned winter and whether or not we do see that level 
of tourism. We know that winter recreation did not escape COVID 
either. The 2019-2020 ski season was cut short, forcing every 
ski area on our national forests to close early. As a skier, it 
was devastating to me because we had such a great, epic ski 
year in so many of our areas and we were not skiing.
    The virus is also threatening the way our public lands are 
used to produce food and water. Dam and canal operators 
typically finance large amounts of debt to build infrastructure 
that transports water from watersheds in our national forests 
to cities and to farms, and family-owned ranchers carefully 
budget for infrastructure and livestock purchases to ensure 
rangeland health and productivity under the terms of their 
grazing permits. Some individuals are now struggling to pay 
their water bills and others are buying less meat. This exposes 
ranchers, farmers and water providers to financial risks that 
jeopardize their continued operation.
    Impacts on state governments are also having a ripple 
effect on federal land management. Many state habitat, wildlife 
and invasive species activities did not occur this spring or 
this summer. Some states stopped all non-essential field work, 
including prescribed burns and forest restoration projects on 
neighboring federal lands. Others could not spawn fish in 
hatcheries which has reduced angling opportunities and could 
possibly compromise long-term aquatic species restoration 
goals. In Alaska, we see a prime example of this. The sale of 
non-resident hunting and fishing licenses accounts for a 
substantial portion of funding for our Department of Fish and 
Game. By some estimates, the Department could lose up to 60 
percent of its revenue stream because of this year's depressed 
tourism season. Without that revenue, the state is going to 
have a hard time meeting the matching requirements for the 
Pittman-Robertson grants or the stateside portion of the Land 
and Water Conservation Fund (LWCF). Here we are going to have a 
great opportunity for access to greater LWCF funds, but if the 
state can't meet the matching, it is like we have not helped 
them at all.
    Today we are going to hear testimony from several public 
land user advisor advocacy groups, and as we do it is important 
to consider the scale of the Federal Government's reach. It is 
the single largest landowner in the United States, possessing 
more than a quarter of all land within our borders, more than 
640 million acres in total. The vast majority of those acres 
are located in Alaska and across 11 Western states. COVID-19 
has added a whole new layer of complexity to public land 
management. We need to ensure the Federal Government is 
supporting the users who are essential job creators and 
environmental stewards while also respecting the wishes of the 
local communities who call those areas home.
    With that, I turn to my friend and colleague, Ranking 
Member Manchin, for your opening remarks.

              STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA

    Senator Manchin. Thank you, Chairman Murkowski, and I thank 
all of you for being here today and those, I think we have a 
couple on the video and we appreciate your expertise too for 
sharing it with us.
    I would like to take a moment to acknowledge that we now 
have 141,000 people who have died in the United States from 
this horrendous virus including 102 West Virginians. Our heart 
goes out to each one of their families and all those left 
behind, and it is just a horrible, horrible, horrible, tragic 
event.
    Today we are going to be discussing the COVID-19 impacts on 
users of public lands. As the case with nearly every facet of 
our society, most users of public lands are continuing to 
experience a disruption to business as usual due to the 
Coronavirus. I believe it is important for public lands to 
remain open, accessible, when it is safely possible to do so, 
not only because they offer a wonderful respite and a way to 
enjoy our great outdoors, but also because they are important 
generators of economic activity, especially, and I mean 
especially, for rural America and West Virginia is all rural. 
Last week I held a virtual feedback session with West Virginia 
leaders to hear directly from them about how we can better 
utilize and direct future COVID-19 funding. Precisely what I 
asked them, tell me what did not work for you in the first 
round of funding that was designed to work for you but did not. 
Tell me what is the greatest need you have now. If we could 
pinpoint just one thing, just give me one. And so, every 
category, we had over 43 different representations of all 
different facets of life in West Virginia, and they all had 
some great, great input to this. It has been very helpful.
    A major problem we are facing in West Virginia is getting 
CARES Act funding out the door to counties and local 
governments. Even the monies that the states have received, 
$1.25 billion to the smallest states and some of you are from 
states like mine. The governors haven't put them out and put 
the money out. Forty-five percent of that was intended. So if 
you were a small state with $1.25 billion, $560 million was 
supposed to, it wasn't in the law, but it was supposed to go to 
the counties, municipalities, non-profits, every one of the 
aspect to keep economies alive, anybody that got, basically, 
harmed because of COVID-19 which everything you're talking 
about today and you're representing, got slammed. That money 
was to be used to keep them whole or try to keep them above 
water, so when a market does return. And I tell people, if you 
think this market is going to return before there is a vaccine 
or an antibody, you are crazy. So people are still scared. We 
must live with that fact until we get a vaccine. It is going to 
be rough but if the money is not distributed, it makes it even 
rougher. So I hope all of you go back home, and start raising 
cane for your share because I can tell you, the national 
average is 16 percent, only 16 percent of the money the 
governors have gotten has gone out to the local communities and 
been distributed around their states.
    I raise that point in relation to the conversation we are 
having here today because in many states those governments rely 
on federal payment and revenue sharing programs from federal 
land management agencies to offset the loss of revenues due to 
the presence of public lands in their jurisdictions. It 
includes important programs like Secure Rural Schools, Payment 
in Lieu of Taxes, the Dingell-Johnson funds for fish 
restoration and royalty payments for energy development. Each 
of these programs provide important lifelines to the states and 
communities all across the country that are experiencing 
unprecedented threats to their budgets due to the Coronavirus. 
I would be remiss if I didn't mention that we just passed the 
Great American Outdoors Act, and that Great American Outdoors 
Act is going to do so much.
    I want to take the time to acknowledge David Brooks. He has 
been working on this Committee for 32 years. David and I were 
talking and he said, ``I never thought this day would come. 
This is the greatest achievement we have made in the last half 
a century, 50 years or more, and I think all of us are going to 
benefit by it.''
    I look forward to hearing from each one of you about your 
concerns and challenges. I also hope we will be able to hear 
from the Department of the Interior and Forest Service in the 
near future so that we can better understand their plans for 
reopening federal lands in a manner that protects the health 
and safety of public land visitors and agency employees, 
consistent with federal and state health guidelines.
    I would like to take a moment and turn to some good news 
and that is, again, the Great American Outdoors Act, which we 
are very, very pleased about. It will be a major investment 
that public land users in this great country will enjoy for 
generations to come, and I know my children and grandchildren 
will enjoy it. The Great American Outdoors Act is going to 
provide permanent and mandatory funding for Land and Water 
Conservation Fund, at a fully authorized level of $900 million 
annually and $9.5 billion for deferred maintenance for projects 
on federal lands with 70 percent of that amount dedicated to 
national parks. Passage of the bill's historic achievement, I 
believe, everyone understands that is in this line of work and 
everyone who has ever enjoyed the outdoors. The fact that we 
were able to get this bill through the Senate and the House in 
a relatively short timeframe in the most toxic environment I 
have ever lived through in my life, speaks volumes of the 
importance of the great outdoors and the conservation and the 
environment that we are all responsible for.
    With that, I want to thank Chair Murkowski for having this 
hearing, and I look forward to hearing from all of you and the 
witnesses.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Manchin.
    I think we are looking forward to having the President sign 
the Great American Outdoors Act and, as you point out, 
finalizing----
    Senator Manchin. Yes.
    The Chairman. ----and ensuring that good work goes forward.
    We are joined by a strong panel here this morning as we are 
looking at the impacts of COVID-19 on our public lands. We are 
going to begin our panel this morning with a couple of 
witnesses that are joining us virtually and three that are here 
in person.
    We are going to start this morning with the Honorable Kelly 
Hepler, who is the Secretary for the South Dakota Department of 
Game, Fish and Parks on behalf of the Association of the Fish 
and Wildlife Agencies (AFWA). I think it is important to also 
note that in addition to his work in South Dakota, Mr. Hepler 
was in the State of Alaska for about 35 years, as I understand, 
working for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. So he is 
uniquely poised to speak, not only about Alaska's perspectives 
and operations but also where he is in South Dakota with their 
Department of Game, Fish and Parks. So we welcome Mr. Hepler to 
the Committee.
    Also virtually, we are joined by Mr. Douglas Kemper. Doug 
is the Executive Director for the Colorado Water Congress. We 
are pleased to have him.
    Here in the Committee room we have Mr. Ethan Lane, who is 
the Vice President of Government Affairs for the National 
Cattlemen's Beef Association (NCBA). We welcome you.
    We are also joined by Mr. Will Shafroth. Will is the 
President and CEO of the National Park Foundation, so this is a 
good day for you as well with passage of the Great American 
Outdoors Act.
    Then we are also pleased to welcome Ms. Jess Turner, who is 
the Executive Director for the Outdoor Recreation Roundtable 
(ORR).
    We will go in the order as I have introduced you. Again, my 
hope is that we will be able to get through the comments from 
all five of our witnesses this morning and then we might take a 
quick break to go vote. Hopefully we will and that will work 
with our timing. I would ask folks to try to keep your comments 
to about five minutes. Your full statements will be 
incorporated as part of the record, and then we will have an 
opportunity for engagement back and forth. Several of our 
colleagues will also be participating virtually, so there will 
be a lot of moving pieces here but I think we have all got this 
in the age of Zoom and Webex.
    With that, let's begin with you, Mr. Hepler. Welcome to the 
Committee and nice to see you.

      STATEMENT OF HON. KELLY R. HEPLER, SECRETARY, SOUTH 
         DAKOTA DEPARTMENT OF GAME, FISH AND PARKS, ON 
    BEHALF OF THE ASSOCIATION OF FISH AND WILDLIFE AGENCIES

    Mr. Hepler. Good morning, Madam Chair and Ranking Member 
Manchin, members of the Committee. I do appreciate this 
opportunity to testify this morning and I have testimony this 
morning on behalf of the Association of Fish and Wildlife 
Agencies. As you noted, I'm Secretary of Game, Fish and Parks 
in South Dakota, but also as you noted, Madam Chair, that I 
spent 35 years in Alaska and those were great years. We do have 
some mutual friends here--Mulder, Pat Carter and Rueben and 
others. You also were very gracious and had an intern named 
Maggie Hepler a number of years ago. My wife and I certainly 
appreciate the leadership you showed with my daughter. Thank 
you. But about five years ago I had the great opportunity to 
return back to my home State of South Dakota where I am now the 
Secretary.
    As both Senators mentioned earlier this morning, we are 
certainly in challenging times and this is truly an 
understatement. The effects of COVID-19 are profoundly 
impacting the physical and mental well-being of our nation's 
citizens and the stability of our national and local economies. 
During this pandemic, our natural resources which provide for 
the health and well-being of the public are being relied on now 
more and more. The general public has increased its use of 
state-managed lands and waters at unprecedented levels for much 
needed outdoor recreation and relaxation. Americans 
increasingly are seeking nature on these state lands for 
comfort and healing. This level of public use is presenting new 
opportunities to reach new constituents and driving home the 
relevancy of state fish and wildlife agencies to a person's 
quality of life. As more people experience the proven health 
benefits of the outdoors and nature, many of them engage in 
activities that directly fund species and habitat conservation.
    Hunting and fishing licenses, a lifeblood of state fish and 
wildlife agencies, depend on open lands, water and travel. 
License sales this year vary widely across the country. 
Resident fishing licenses are by far the standout. Compared to 
last year, national sales through April were just under about 
ten percent across the land. In South Dakota we've seen a 27 
percent increase. Unfortunately this is coupled to an 18 
percent decrease nationally on non-resident fishing license 
sales due to state-specific travel restrictions and 
regulations. And in some states, agencies must sell up to six 
times the number of resident licenses to cover the loss of 
revenue from non-resident license sales. Nowhere is this better 
illustrated, Madam Chair, than in Alaska where the Department 
of Fish and Game relies on non-resident license sales to fund a 
significant part of their budget. These sales are down 90 
percent and, I repeat, 90 percent in the first half of 2020 
compared to April 2019. Excise taxes from sales of hunting and 
fishing equipment provide another bright spot for conservation 
and state fish and wildlife agency budgets. Estimated sales of 
guns and ammo have increased by about 300 percent in the second 
half of FY 2020. Revenue generated from these taxes fund 
conservation projects directly benefiting hunters and 
recreational shooters. The sale of angling and gear and motor 
boat fuels and the resulting excise tax receipts have been 
robust since part of the state supports fish projects.
    However, there's an unprecedented strain on state agency 
budgets and fiscal uncertainty is the norm. Mandatory 
reductions in spending authority, hiring freezes, stringent 
spending shrinkages and reduction or elimination of state, 
federal and general funds to state agencies are some of the 
fiscal challenges that they're now facing. Critical NGO 
partners also relied on for match generation have been 
devastated by this economic impact and they've also been put at 
risk--grants, contracts, cooperative agreements that we have 
with these partners. And even though funding is performing 
pretty well, none of us know for certain what's going to happen 
this fall and what that means as far as our hunting licenses.
    Congress has recognized this increased necessity for 
conservation funding, and I thank the Senate for the passage of 
the Great American Outdoors Act. Outstanding work, Senators. 
This will create jobs by addressing the deferred maintenance 
backlog to federal land managers as well as help fund the 
statewide program's Land and Water Conservation Fund, that, of 
course, as Senator Manchin noted, this Act passed the House 
yesterday and congratulations to all. It's going to provide 
some historic funding for many.
    In South Dakota we partner with communities across the 
state to improve the quality of life by funding projects like 
swimming pools, playgrounds and hiking trails. These are the 
type of projects that keep small communities alive, although 
I'm concerned about the ability of these communities to build 
that make them necessary to match. We will continue to rise and 
meet the challenges of this pandemic and look forward to 
working with the Congress to answer their needs. Indeed, state 
fish and wildlife agencies will be resilient, strong and 
ensuring the wise stewardship of fish and wildlife resources 
for the benefit of the current and future generations. We want 
to work with Congress to not only improve our financial 
security to rebuild and our state recreational infrastructure, 
but maybe it is important to bring hope to all those families 
that value the importance of getting outside. Thank you again, 
Madam Chair, for the opportunity to testify, I stand by for 
questions. Thank you, Madam.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hepler follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    The Chairman. Very good, thank you, Mr. Hepler. We 
appreciate that.
    Mr. Kemper, welcome.

STATEMENT OF DOUGLAS KEMPER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COLORADO WATER 
                            CONGRESS

    Mr. Kemper. Good morning. This is Doug Kemper. I am the 
Executive Director of the Colorado Water Congress. It serves as 
a principal voice of Colorado's water community. I'm also here 
representing the National Water Resources Association. I serve 
as the Chair of the State Executives. Most Western states have 
an organization somewhat similar to ours, and collectively we 
represent the majority of water use in the Western United 
States. Much of our water supply does come off of federal 
lands, parks and forests, and I'm here to talk a little bit 
about how COVID is affecting the water community--to cover five 
different topic areas. As we look at some of the COVID impacts, 
some--many are yet to be fully felt. There's some unevenness of 
impacts from place to place and type of water use but there is 
a general concern about the delays and funding for aging water 
infrastructure replacement.
    First, on the safety and health of employees, our staff 
that work out in the field provide critical daily functions 
that cannot be performed remotely and there's a need for better 
preparedness. Most of us did not have a COVID scenario in our 
budgets as we were preparing for 2020. We do need stockpiles of 
PPE. We need some better messaging that water supply and water 
quality remain good and certainly, also, is stop flushing of 
flushable wipes has been a real problem for our wastewater 
folks. We do need better training and cross-training of 
operators. We already have a shortage of water and wastewater 
operators.
    From infrastructure funding in my written materials there's 
being that they're from Idaho, that as commodity prices drop 
and the economy is falling, you know, construction costs are 
going up. This puts more pressure on local government's ability 
to fund and especially about concern of the ability to for 
state and local match for costs. Farmers need help and they 
need preparation. We need to invest in water infrastructure, 
and those investments return huge economic impacts. The 
irrigated ag needs to, in Western Colorado, really supports our 
local communities and it's very important. We need to, 
according to ASCE, we've got an $84 billion gap in water and 
wastewater facility funding, $45 billion in aging, high hazard 
dams, $80 billion in levees.
    We want to thank Senators Gardner and Bennett for their 
support for revenue stabilization assistance for Colorado. A 
recent survey by Colorado Municipal League shows that 80 
percent of our municipalities expect a general fund shortfall 
of 20 percent in 2020. This is going to affect reducing 
critical services, staffing and controlled maintenance. We're 
seeing a precipitous drop in natural resource production and 
severance tax that comes from that. Sixty percent of that in 
Colorado is used for rural communities for funding. We're 
seeing an 81 percent decline in Colorado of severance tax and 
we've had, our state government has moved over $45 million from 
its funds to balance the general budget that would normally 
have gone to water infrastructure funding. We're very concerned 
about any work on shutoffs or federal mandates on shutoffs. I 
think that most of our local water providers are doing an 
excellent job of working with providers--with the customers to 
mitigate any kind of impacts there.
    We've already mentioned the forest health, and that's a 
major concern. Aquatic nuisance species control, you know, we 
had 9,000 boat decontaminations this year and had 50, through 
this year, 5,200 from this time last year. And the forest to 
faucets programs, the resilient forests and the water source 
protection programs are all very important. Our special 
districts that were left out of the CARES Act and PPP programs 
need some help. These are really important districts that 
provide services where cities and counties cannot. You can look 
for more work there coming from special districts on mitigation 
for funding there.
    In conclusion, the long-term plans are in flux really due 
to uncertainty of COVID, and that's really saying something for 
a water community that's constantly buffeted by weather and 
changes in the economy. Nobody's giving up. We generally have a 
very positive attitude, but we do need the Federal Government 
as a partner. I want to thank all of our Western Senators for 
their help and, as we're kicking around ideas in the water 
community, your names are all coming up very regularly and we 
really thank you for your support.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Kemper follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Kemper. We appreciate that.
    We will come back to the Committee room here and hear from 
Mr. Ethan Lane. Welcome.

   STATEMENT OF ETHAN L. LANE, VICE PRESIDENT OF GOVERNMENT 
         AFFAIRS, NATIONAL CATTLEMEN'S BEEF ASSOCIATION

    Mr. Lane. Thank you, Chair Murkowski for inviting me today. 
Ranking Member Manchin, thank you as well. My name is Ethan 
Lane. I am the Vice President of Government Affairs for the 
National Cattlemen's Beef Association. NCBA is the oldest and 
largest trade association representing the U.S. cattle and beef 
industry. Formerly, I was the Executive Director of the Public 
Lands Council which is the only organization that advocates 
solely for the 22,000 grazing permit holders that operate on 
Western federal lands in the United States.
    The testimony I offer today I hope will address two 
different issues. One, those issues germane to this Committee's 
jurisdiction, but two, hopefully to present to you a larger 
picture of what Western ranchers are dealing with in the face 
and context of COVID-19 over the past few months. It has truly 
been a challenging environment for our industry.
    In April of 2020 some of the leading economists in the 
country, specifically agricultural economists, found that the 
economic impact to the U.S. cattle industry from COVID-19 was 
at $13.6 billion and climbing. According to producers who sold 
cattle throughout the spring, their payments that they received 
for their live animals were something like 30 to 50 percent 
reduced from what they expected when they entered this season. 
For cow/calf producers operating on Western grazing allotments, 
this is perhaps even more exacerbated by the year-round nature 
of their businesses. That economic impact report estimated that 
$111 could be attributed as lost to each steer sold this year 
with an escalating loss to $247 moving into 2021 without some 
mitigating assistance.
    The brunt of this economic impact really stems from some of 
the slowdowns that we saw in the processing sector. Obviously 
that was a large story during the peak of COVID-19, but it led 
to a tremendous backup of cattle and livestock on Western 
grazing lands and in the grazing industry, in general. Those 
producers chose not to follow the path that we saw in some of 
the other protein spaces by looking for options for 
depopulation and, instead, looked for areas to augment feed 
supplies, look for areas for additional forage and sustain 
those cattle until they could be processed in a timely manner. 
That strategy has proven successful, but we are now dealing 
with some of the other impacts that have been discussed here 
today, especially for those producers that are operating in the 
West.
    In particular, speaking to the Chairman's comments when she 
opened this hearing, while there is a dramatic reduction in, 
maybe, formulized attendance at some of those national park 
sites, there is a dramatically increased amount of public usage 
of some of those public lands, particularly surrounding large, 
metropolitan areas. Our producers are seeing large surges of ad 
hoc usage of those lands which already before this pandemic 
were quite popular with the American people. That is the point. 
This is a multiple-use environment. That's something that our 
producers hold very dear. They have managed in that environment 
for sometimes as much as seven generations, but at the volumes 
that we're seeing now, we are seeing some of those resources 
stretched beyond what they can really sustain. We're seeing 
water sources that are used, not just by livestock but by 
wildlife as well, encircled by large SUVs, four-wheel drive 
vehicles and other resources while ignoring requests that those 
be handled in a way that provides access for wildlife and 
livestock to those water sources. We're seeing new trails being 
made on an ad hoc basis by some of those off-road vehicles, by 
hikers, by others, without regard to the ecosystems that they 
are engaging in. And while we want to make sure that everybody 
enjoys those public lands and benefits from them equally, the 
regulatory environment that ranchers operate in basically means 
that as they go home with a consequence-free experience on 
their public lands, the ranchers that are held to a very high 
standard and constant scrutiny are left to deal with the 
ramifications both from a land/health perspective and an 
infrastructure cost perspective once that visit from the public 
is over.
    We look forward to working with this Committee, with the 
Department of the Interior and USDA to try to find some ways to 
manage those roadblocks that are in the way of our producers 
doing the work that they need to do. As the rest of the economy 
shut down over the last four or five months, ranchers still 
showed up for work every day. Ranchers still ensured that there 
was beef at the center of American plates and they also ensured 
that the 250 million acres that we help manage in partnership 
with the Federal Government, continued to get that sustainable 
operational management that we have been providing for so long. 
So we look forward to your questions. We look forward to the 
discussion and look forward to charting a path forward for 
helping to manage these lands.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Lane follows:]
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    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Lane.
    Mr. Shafroth, welcome to the Committee.

         STATEMENT OF WILL SHAFROTH, PRESIDENT & CEO, 
                    NATIONAL PARK FOUNDATION

    Mr. Shafroth. Thank you, Chair Murkowski and Ranking Member 
Manchin, other members of the Committee who may be here 
virtually, I'm Will Shafroth, President and CEO of the National 
Park Foundation, the official philanthropic partner of the 
National Park Service. Today, five months into a global 
pandemic, it remains difficult to gauge the full impact COVID-
19 will have on those who work for, in or near our parks, as 
well as the millions of Americans for whom national parks are 
an important destination. Especially in the throes of a global 
pandemic, we must all work together to support the National 
Park Service's mission to ensure our parks remain accessible to 
current and future generations.
    During the past five months the National Park Foundation 
has done its best to adapt to the changing times caused by 
COVID-19 by providing new and expanding existing support for 
parks. As the pandemic unfolded, the national parks suddenly 
became less accessible to most Americans. In response, the 
Foundation worked with the Park Service to develop new ways to 
bring parks to America's homes through digital experiences, 
enhanced virtual tours and webcams and auditory experiences 
like PARKTRACKS have allowed people to tune into the sites and 
sounds of national parks from anywhere. On the Foundation 
website we've added more content, including virtual Junior 
Ranger booklets, instructions to earn a Girl Scout 19th 
Amendment badge and even a way to virtually explore Alexander 
Hamilton's journey through our national parks once you watch 
the musical. As in-person park visitation resumes, we must also 
educate visitors about some of the new norms. The Foundation is 
actively involved in the #RecreateResponsibly campaign which 
urges those who visit parks and other public lands to do so in 
the safest possible manner. Some important messages that this 
campaign is conveying include, ``Know Before You Go,'' ``Pack 
Out What You Pack In'' and be prepared with a mask, hand 
sanitizer, food and water.
    As a part of our mission, the Foundation works to support 
non-profit park partners and there are more than 450 of these 
groups that generated an aggregate revenue of more than $1.2 
billion in 2018. Revenue from these partner groups generally 
falls into two categories: philanthropy and earned revenue. As 
parks closed to protect public health, groups reliant on earned 
revenue began to face immediate challenges as funds to pay for 
salaries and overhead dried up overnight. And even with the 
reopening of parks, business remains down and support for park 
education efforts in some parks has diminished. On the 
philanthropic side, most organizations continue to raise money 
for parks, just not as much as before the pandemic. For 
example, many organizations were forced to cancel large, in-
person fundraising events which can provide a meaningful share 
of a group's annual revenue.
    Further, some donors shifted the focus of their giving to 
COVID-related causes while others are in a wait and see posture 
until there's more certainty in the direction of the economy. 
To support the park partner community during this unprecedented 
time, the Foundation in partnership with the Friends Alliance, 
quickly moved to provide educational and technical assistance 
resources including hosting webinars for friends groups on 
navigating the PPP loan process, sharing experiences across the 
Friends Community on what was working in fundraising and 
convening park partners with NPS leadership to stay abreast of 
emerging issues and priorities for the Park Service. For its 
part, the National Park Foundation has stayed in the market, if 
you will, with our fundraising efforts. We haven't stopped 
asking people for money, basically. And while donations from 
individuals and foundations have remained fairly strong, our 
work with some corporate partners, especially those that have 
been negatively impacted by COVID-19, has been put on, have 
been put on hold. And because national parks are deeply loved 
and a core part of the American DNA, I'm confident that those 
who love our parks will continue to support them.
    As most in the partner community struggle to thrive during 
this challenging time, it's very exciting we also stand at the 
precipice of the enactment of the Great American Outdoors Act. 
And I'd like to thank members of this Committee for your 
support and leadership as this historic legislation will 
provide much needed funding for deferred maintenance in our 
national parks. We at the Foundation and the partner community, 
in general, stand ready to help implement this once-in-a-
lifetime legislation. With increased federal investment to 
address the park's long overdue maintenance needs, the partner 
community can continue to focus its efforts on funding 
innovative projects that enhance the visitor experience and 
ensure our parks reach their highest potential.
    I'd like to close with one parting thought. We're truly all 
in this together. For our parks to thrive, all of us in the 
park community need to work together--the Park Service, the 
National Park Foundation, local and national partners and 
gateway communities. Congress has already taken really 
important steps for which we all in the community are grateful, 
and we look forward to continue to work with you to do even 
more. Thank you for your time today, and I'll welcome your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Shafroth follows:]
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    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Shafroth.
    Ms. Turner, welcome to the Committee.

STATEMENT OF JESSICA (WAHL) TURNER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, OUTDOOR 
                     RECREATION ROUNDTABLE

    Ms. Turner. Thank you.
    Dear Chairman Murkowski, Ranking Member Manchin and members 
of the Committee, thanks for having me here today to discuss 
the many impacts COVID-19 is having on public land and water 
users and especially the outdoor recreation business user 
community who rely on these special places as the backbone of 
our economic force. ORR is the nation's leading coalition of 
outdoor recreation trade associations, totaling 32 national 
members, representing over 110,000 outdoor businesses and 
covering the entire spectrum of outdoor recreation activities. 
Prior to the pandemic, we generated $778 billion annually, 
comprised 2.2 percent of the U.S. GDP and supported 5.2 million 
American jobs. At a time of unprecedented economic growth, we 
grew faster than the entire economy in every single indicator, 
surpassing other key sectors.
    However, our industry has dramatically changed this year. 
Because of the COVID-19 outbreak and the ensuing efforts to 
mitigate the spread, including social distancing, travel 
restrictions, caps on group sizes, retail and public lands 
closures, outdoor businesses have gone through unprecedented 
downturns and many are still in danger of going out of 
business. Entire supply chains have been disrupted and, as the 
Chairwoman mentioned, recreational businesses who provide 
seasonal opportunities and oftentimes rely on seasonal trips 
and travel should have seen a very busy spring and early summer 
and, instead, were shuttered along with the local, state and 
federal land closures. Eighty-eight percent of our businesses 
surveyed in May laid off or furloughed employees; 94 percent 
saw a decrease in revenue; and astonishingly, all 23,000 
businesses surveyed were experiencing difficulty with 
production and distribution, with 79 percent experiencing 
significant impacts. According to the U.S. Census Bureau our 
industry was the second most affected sector in the entire 
country, behind food and accommodation.
    While our businesses have been reeling from the economic 
shock and shifting to support PPE production and emergency 
response efforts, Americans' lives and communities have also 
dramatically changed. With schools, movie theaters, malls and 
more temporarily closed, Americans are returning to the 
outdoors to provide a necessary reprieve from the intense 
mental and physical stress caused by the pandemic and the vital 
efforts to combat it. In past years less than 50 percent of 
Americans have enjoyed an outdoor recreation experience, and 
yet a May survey found that 81 percent of Americans said they'd 
spent time outside during the pandemic and would continue to do 
so after. Metro areas measured park visitation increases 
ranging from 6 to 145 percent. So similar to past recessions, 
Americans are focusing on their priorities. People want to 
safely get outside with their families where transmission rates 
of the virus are lower. There's no better place than in a park, 
on a river, in a boat, camping in an RV, or on a hiking, 
biking, off-roading trail to do this. Recent data reflects this 
desire. So biking, fishing license sales in state, power 
sports, boat and RV sales have all rebounded since our last 
survey in May, and we're watching the demographics shift to 
younger and first-time buyers.
    We've proved to be a resilient industry, but we are not in 
the clear yet. With more people heading outside and the 
overcrowding of some federal sites, we must also focus on the 
communities who could not access the outdoors in a time when 
they needed it most. As governors restricted travel and 
encouraged residents to use local communities for walks and 
exercise, more than 100 million Americans were not within ten 
minutes of a park or a green space and parks that were 
accessible to them that serve a majority of people of color, 
average half the size and serve more than five times as many 
people per acre than those that serve white communities.
    With rising unemployment and these access and 
infrastructure issues exacerbated by the pandemic, the entire 
recreation industry thanks you sincerely for the Great American 
Outdoors Act which will help build urban parks, make recreation 
safer and more sustainable and, of course, support rural 
economies and jobs. There's never been a better time to 
consider a recreation package to ensure that our Federal 
Government is investing in places and tools that can revitalize 
not just our economy but also our spirit. Through policies like 
the Recreation Not Red Tape Act, for equitable and sustainable 
access, the SOAR Act for flexibility of permits for struggling 
guides and outfitters, ski fee retention and fee waivers to 
support seasonal businesses and an expansion on this 
Committee's great conservation core work to get more youth and 
veterans back to work in the outdoors and recreational trails 
programs full funding so that the full amount of fuel taxes 
that motorize vehicle users pay goes to the improved access for 
all recreation users.
    Support for resilient lands and waters and these policies 
mentioned will invigorate this once vibrant and now struggling 
industry so we can help America recover from this economic 
recession and get back to doing what our industry does best--
stimulate local economies, put people back to work and support 
all Americans in their pursuit of an outdoor experience. Thank 
you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Turner follows:]
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    The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Turner. I appreciate what 
you've added in terms of some of the legislative proposals that 
are out there that we might be able to help advance in 
response. I also want to acknowledge your comments about the 
overcrowding. I think it is good, as we, every day try to find 
the bright linings of COVID-19. Some days it is more 
challenging than others, but we have seen families go outdoors 
and recreate at levels and in places that they have not before, 
and I think that is such an extraordinary positive.
    The other observation that I would make is that the users 
that I have come in contact with--users of our parks, users of 
our public lands--have recognized that in order to use and use 
safely, we are accepting certain limitations that perhaps we 
might not have been so eager or willing to do. The example that 
I might share with fellow Committee members, as I mentioned, I 
was in Katmai National Park. Brooks Camp is where they have the 
infamous bear cams where you have the big, lumbering bears 
standing at the falls and waiting for the fish to come into 
their mouth and that is the most highly sought place to park 
your family, watch the bears for hours on end, photograph some 
extraordinary pictures. If you want to look at my pictures, I 
have got some really good ones. But people recognizing that 
they can't all go down to the viewing platform at the same 
time. A willingness to not only wait until it is their turn but 
recognizing that you can't get on the lower platform until 
people have cycled off, that there was a 20 minute, 30 minute 
limitation and not once did I hear somebody say, no, I paid an 
extraordinary amount of money to come out here to view this and 
it is my right to stand here. There was a recognition that we 
want to accommodate others. That, to me, was encouraging. I 
know we don't hear all the times, the good stories, but I think 
it is important to note that as we are trying to access our 
public areas that are very special to us, that we are making 
some accommodations and making some things work here.
    I wanted to ask a question to you, probably Mr. Hepler and 
Mr. Shafroth, and this is the issue of the fees and a 
recognition that our states, I mentioned the impact on Alaska 
and Mr. Hepler you acknowledged that we are going to be down 90 
percent in terms of those revenues that we count on. I raised 
that in my opening statement as well. Senator Manchin had said 
that he had a roundtable where he was asking, okay, what is it 
that we need to do, what didn't we do in CARES and what might 
we need to be doing going forward? What sort of relief could 
Congress provide to address the concerns about the non-federal 
matching requirements in the short- and the medium-term?
    I will turn to you, Mr. Hepler, first and then we will go 
to you, Mr. Shafroth.
    Go ahead, Kelly.
    Mr. Hepler. Thank you, Madam Chair, I appreciate that. 
Yeah, I spent five years as Director of Traditional Sport 
Fishing. It's a real challenge right now Dave and Doug have to 
deal with. It's, at the very least, what we're asking for, 
Madam Chair and Senators, is that right now it's required, it's 
75/25. So you need to probably have $25 compared from $75 
coming from the federal side. We'd like to have that down to a 
90/10 and realizing this isn't asking for more money, this is 
all pass-through money and hope that's really the states. And 
so we're asking for a 90/10 relief for at least the next two 
years and that will give people, like Director Russ in Alaska, 
a chance to rebound a little bit because I'm definitely 
concerned about that division because I'm not quite sure how 
they're going to survive. I also agree with you just because we 
may get a vaccine in January does not mean we're going to see 
the same people who get in all those cruise ships coming back 
to Alaska to visiting some of the other states.
    So that right there would at least be a step in the right 
direction and we do have some other things we'd like to add but 
directly to your question, Madam Chair, that should help.
    The Chairman. Good, I appreciate that.
    Mr. Shafroth.
    Mr. Shafroth. Yes, thank you, Madam Chairman. It's an 
interesting dilemma because we've advocated strongly for the 
Centennial Challenge funds because frankly donors that we're 
seeking funding from like the fact that we're bringing federal 
money to the table and it inspires more contributions. And as I 
indicated in my testimony, the impact of COVID-19 has been 
uneven across the country. Some of the smaller groups have been 
dramatically impacted while some of the larger, more 
sophisticated groups, including ours, you know, we've kind of 
figured things out in a way. And so, I guess I would advocate 
for things like the Centennial Challenge funds, some additional 
flexibility for the Park Service to look on a case-by-case 
basis because some groups, the Golden Gate Parks Conservancy, 
they may well be able to easily meet the matching requirements 
where others are going to have a much more difficult time.
    I'm not that familiar with some of the heritage areas, 
Madam Chair, but I understand that they have some specific 
challenges that may also require some additional flexibility.
    The Chairman. I appreciate that.
    Okay, my time has expired. I am going to vote. Senator 
Manchin is going to be coming back, but he is not back yet so 
that means that we will go to you, Senator Heinrich, and then 
you, Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Heinrich [presiding]. Thank you, Chairman.
    I want to ask a couple of questions that will largely focus 
on education, and they are really for any of you. One of the 
things that has been a challenge is that we have a whole 
coterie of people who are coming and using our public lands 
that maybe did not do that a year ago. One of the challenges 
that ensues from that is that a large number of people are 
crowding into the front country in places where you have trails 
that may be narrow, and it is hard to socially distance and 
then we have millions of acres that are literally, practically, 
receiving no visitation at all. You know, when we were under 
the most stringent lockdown and we had, I'm trying to think, I 
think it was the blood moon, we had a really amazing full moon 
in New Mexico in the middle of that. I took my family out to a 
place on BLM land that I knew there would be literally no one 
else there. There was no one else at the parking lot, and we 
spent the entire evening out there and did not see another 
soul.
    How do we do a better job educating people about where are 
those places that they can go that are really quite 
spectacular, that may have a little bit less infrastructure but 
try to spread the public out more given the millions of acres 
of public lands that we do have?
    Ms. Turner. I'll start. Thank you for that question, 
Senator.
    You know, we've actually talked a lot. This is another good 
idea for a recreation package about streamlining the data 
collection within the federal agencies. They all have different 
methodology. They come out at different times. We really need 
to know who's on the public lands and why are they there? So, 
for example, if we knew what type of recreation they were 
participating in, we could better move people or recommend less 
crowded public lands. If we don't know whether they're there to 
hike or fish, we can't necessarily say there's a better place 
to go. So we really encourage this Committee specifically to 
look at streamlining the data collection and making that 
available. You know, if you Google a CVS right now you can tell 
when the hot spot is, when will it be crowded. It's probably 
going to be crowded around five o'clock. I'm going to go at 
noon.
    How can we show the hot spots in public lands, because I 
know there's a lot of users who don't want to be in a crowded 
place, especially now? And so, I think data could help move 
people around very well at this time, I think.
    Senator Heinrich. And we don't want them to be----
    Ms. Turner. And we don't want them to be. The Recreate 
Responsibly campaign that Will mentioned is a great way to 
educate the user community. It's really on the American public 
right now to do the right thing when they're getting outside, 
and I think more information would help that.
    And then the last thing is on our end and probably Will's 
end too, and that's brand marketing campaigns. I think 
businesses can help bring to light places that are less used--
the people know less about in their marketing campaigns when 
people are at point of sale, talking about camping maybe in a 
less used area.
    Mr. Shafroth. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
    Yeah, the issue of--there's plenty of space but we have a 
tendency to cram a lot of people into small spaces. I think 
about half of the national park visitation last year of 327 
million visits happened on 25 or 30 parks. So it's both. We 
need to do a better job of dispersing visitation across the 
National Park System, and we're doing that in part through our 
Find Your Park campaign which was really to drive more 
visitation. And the joke among superintendents was ``yeah, find 
a park, but find somebody else's park because mine's got too 
many people in it right now'' and disperse them to some of the 
lesser known places. You know, there's literally almost 400 of 
those places that are lesser known and really compelling, many 
of them have to do with history and culture, but nonetheless. 
Your state is a great example of, you know, a lot of people 
probably cramming into a few of those places and the rest of 
the state is pretty vacant. The other part is even within parks 
we need to do a better job of dispersing visitation. So if you 
go to Yosemite and you would visit Bridalveil Falls, yeah, 
there's going to be a lot of people there, but if you go up to 
Mary's Lake up in Towalame Meadows, there'll be almost nobody 
there. So that is part of an education process that we need to 
help do.
    The other thing, and I think the Park Service is thinking 
about this too, which is, you know, timed entry. We need to be 
looking more at using technology in a more intelligent way to 
ensure that, you know, if you show up at a movie theater at 
seven o'clock on a Friday night, you don't necessarily expect 
to get a seat anymore, right, or a seat together with your 
family. We have to be thinking in the same way about our park 
visitation, and if you want to be at a prime spot, you may have 
to reserve some of those places.
    Senator Heinrich. I don't have a lot of time left, so 
rather than jump into another question I will make a comment 
and just, it is really more of a thank you to all of the user 
groups and industry groups who stepped in. You know, there was 
a moment there where even in my State of New Mexico that's so 
dependent on outdoor recreation and our public lands, where 
people were saying, I think, maybe we just need to shut these 
places down right now and we need to shut the roads and shut 
the access and people stepped up and within 24 hours there was 
literally a consistent communications campaign from elected 
leaders, from industry, from people like the new outdoor 
recreation specialist in our Governor's administration, all 
talking about, okay, we need these spaces right now, but here 
is how you access them responsibly. Here is how you are not a 
burden on someone locally, you are not a burden on other users 
and we are going to do this together responsibly. And in a 
culture where oftentimes for the last few decades we have 
really been about me, me, me, it was very heartening to see 
that and it was a great benefit for public health and also for 
people's mental health to continue to be able to access those 
places but be respectful in how they did it.
    Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Well, I am really 
appreciative of this hearing, and I just want to talk a little 
bit first about the impacts of the Coronavirus pandemic on the 
users of our public lands and our forests, our national parks 
because it is extremely important, certainly to my home State 
of Wyoming. Although the year to date visitation in state and 
national parks is down in Wyoming, we have seen a substantial 
increase in visitors over the last couple of months as we 
reopened smartly, safely, sensibly, responsibly. Despite the 
recent increase in visitors, tourism in gateway communities and 
concessionaires in Wyoming truly are hurting. And you have seen 
this all across the country. The ski resorts had to end their 
seasons early. Our parks had delayed openings.
    Ms. Turner, in your testimony you highlight waiving fees on 
public lands, extending contracts and permits as a 
recommendation to put recreation businesses back on the 
economic growth trajectory. And you know, as I understand the 
Forest Service has deferred various fees in light of the 
pandemic but they don't really have the statutory authority to 
forgive the fees. Could you talk a little bit how fee 
forgiveness and contract extension do provide relief for 
National Park/Forest Service concessionaires and others related 
to the recreational business?
    Ms. Turner. Sure, and thank you for the question, Senator.
    You know, we do appreciate the Forest Service deferral. 
That was a big deal when we needed it most. I think there might 
be another coming down. But fee waivers actually help 
businesses provide certainty. We don't know how long we're 
going to be in this. We don't know what the revenue is coming 
in. Chairman Murkowski mentioned 30 percent to 50 percent of 
some concessionaires. We know it's around that for some guides 
and outfitters as well. So this helps the guides and outfitters 
concessionaires to keep people employed and keep their fixed 
costs which haven't changed, if anything, they've gone up 
because of all of the new regulations they need to run their 
trips. So rather than sending money and fee money back to the 
government at an unknown cost, they're putting people to work 
which is important for communities like yours, rural 
communities in Wyoming.
    It also helps create strong, resilient partnerships. I 
heard from the Forest Service yesterday. They said if a number 
of these businesses go out of business it would be unimaginable 
the impact. These are really the people that are helping 
Americans experience public lands and waters when they get to 
the important parks.
    And then lastly, you know, for permit extensions, when 
folks bid on permits, they're given a certain amount of time to 
recoup that economic toll that they're putting in at the 
beginning. And so, not knowing how they're going to run a 
business, how they're going to open or when they're going to 
open can be a huge upfront cost and one that they can't carry 
much longer.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
    Mr. Lane, in your testimony you noted that economists 
estimate the COVID-related impacts to the cattle industry, beef 
industry, of more than $13 billion. As you mentioned, about 40 
percent of Western cattle herd and 50 percent of the nation's 
sheep herd spent at least part of their production cycle on 
public lands. We certainly know about it in Wyoming. This 
statistic isn't lost on any of us considering about half of the 
land in my home State of Wyoming, public land, 17 million 
acres, public land used for livestock grazing as this pandemic 
and resulting slowdown of meat processing has backed up the 
supply chain for cattle and sheep. Is there a need for the BLM 
and the Forest Service to allow producers to keep their animals 
on the range for a longer period of time where forage is 
available and have the agencies allow some of this flexibility 
that we think is important?
    Mr. Lane. So I think the key there is flexibility and being 
able to really look at what the conditions are in an area where 
we're talking about that need. You know, we are seeing that 
processing capacity rebound. We are making gains there, but 
producers are looking for where they can find additional forage 
to keep those cattle in a holding pattern and a lot of places 
in the West, especially if they had a rainy spring, might be 
pulling cattle off according to their terms of their grazing 
allotment at five percent utilization. And so we're talking 
about not just the fact that we're not using all the resources 
available, but perhaps really increasing fire risk as well. So, 
you know, if we can get down to a really local level of 
analyzing whether there's value in extending some of those 
terms, I think we can make some decisions that are best for the 
rangeland health and provide some flexibility to those 
permittees as well.
    Senator Barrasso. Great, thank you.
    Back to Ms. Turner, among the many lessons we learned, the 
pandemic has highlighted the need for increased communication 
between various federal agencies and with Wyoming being in both 
the Rocky Mountain and the Intermountain regions of the Forest 
Service, we are no stranger to the importance of this 
communication. We have a case in point, a woman from Wyoming 
contacted our office because the bathrooms in fish cleaning 
stations on the Wyoming side of Flaming Gorge were not open, 
but just across the state line in the same park in Utah, the 
same facilities were open. We were told that the high traffic 
facilities are closed because of COVID-19 and their policy. 
Have you heard of similar instances? Is this just unique where 
the pandemic has highlighted additional needs for effective 
communication in state, local and national levels?
    Ms. Turner. Yup, thank you for the question.
    We've heard that and we've been talking and dealing with 
that, I think, for decades just on more communication between 
the agencies both within the agencies and between the agencies. 
We appreciate that the Forest Service allowed for local 
decision-making to keep units open because that kept a lot of 
recreation open, but we certainly are having the same issues 
with businesses, oftentimes, as we've talked about guides and 
outfitters actually cross jurisdictional boundaries between 
forests or between agencies. So if one is open and the other 
isn't and if we look at closures happening again, that could be 
very difficult to run a business.
    Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you.
    Thank you, Madam Chairman, for holding this important 
hearing.
    The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Manchin.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you very much. All of this has been 
enlightening. I appreciate it very much, but I am going to ask 
one question to everybody.
    What is the one thing that Congress, the Senate, all of us 
could do that would help turn around and basically recover 
quicker? We will come out of this pandemic sooner or later, but 
what is the one thing we could do now to get us to that point 
when we come out of this that would help your industry? We have 
two of our witnesses on the video, if they would like to just 
give me an idea of what they would think we need to do--one 
important thing as you think about this.
    Mr. Hepler. Senator Manchin, this is Kelly Hepler and what 
I'd really love to see the Senate do is to invest in the state 
infrastructure the same way you invested so wisely in the 
federal infrastructure. It's going to immediately, I think, 
make an impact on recreational use. I think it will help the 
industry. It will certainly put boots on the ground, put money 
in small town USA. You know, we're talking, you know, hundreds 
of millions of dollars into what we need for investment. 
Particularly like in South Dakota we have miles of roads. We 
have 80 dams, you know, which are important for recreational 
and home use, and so if you invest in that infrastructure with 
that same zeal you did on the federal side, you'll see those 
same results, maybe even amplified more. So, Senator, that's 
what I wish you'd do.
    Senator Manchin. Anybody else?
    Mr. Kemper. Senator, this is Doug Kemper. I think the 
revenue stabilization assistance, especially to utilities and 
help with the smaller special districts that have just not been 
able to get any help from the CARES Act would be most 
beneficial.
    Mr. Lane. Senator, I appreciate that question.
    The biggest unused resource in the federal grazing arena is 
making grazing allotments that are subject to a never-ending 
NEPA backlog. There is a tremendous amount of forage available, 
not to mention unrealized resource benefit if we can manage 
those resources properly that are sitting on a shelf right now 
because we can't get the NEPA done or get over those NEPA 
hurdles to put those vacant allotments back into production.
    Mr. Shafroth. Thank you, Senator.
    I would say be generous in your appropriations to programs 
like the Centennial Challenge this year. When you were out of 
the room, we talked about having some initial flexibility there 
but those dollars will stimulate more activity from the 450 
organizations that are out supporting parks than almost 
anything that you can do.
    Ms. Turner. I would have said the Great American Outdoors 
Act, but I checked that off yesterday. So I appreciate that.
    [Laughter.]
    I think a recreation package with some of the provisions 
that I outlined so that we have better management and tools for 
our recreation businesses.
    Senator Manchin. I was in West Virginia last week, the last 
two weeks we were off, and then we had a virtual town hall, 
virtual listening session to hear all the people's concerns. 
The number one thing in my state from infrastructure is 
internet connectivity. Internet connectivity lets people stay 
longer and now basically they can work from anywhere, because 
of telework and that could continue on. It could be a new fad. 
I think the new normal is not going to be the old normal we 
knew. It has changed everything.
    But connectivity, if we, all of us, Democrats and 
Republicans, work for one thing and especially in our rural 
states. I don't need to tell my Chairman here, my friend, Lisa, 
that this is something we are challenged with. I have kids that 
can't do homework, but I have other people coming in to ride 
the Hatfield-McCoy Trail that will stay in the cabins. They 
stay an extra two weeks. I have people that would stay in some 
of our beautiful parks out in West Virginia that would stay all 
summer if they could and it is just something we need. So I 
would speak to that.
    One other thing I wanted to speak to, and this is directed 
to Mr. Shafroth. The question for the Park Service is, are 
there enough shovel-ready projects that we can do? I mean, we 
are going to have $1.3 billion a year.
    Mr. Shafroth. Right.
    Senator Manchin. A lot of it is for backlog maintenance 
too, but it is going to be for some new projects that have an 
opportunity to really enhance the quality of that park. Are 
there programs that they have been working on and, kind of, 
just been piecemealing it for lack of funds?
    Mr. Shafroth. Thank you, Senator, and it probably wouldn't 
be appropriate for me to answer for the Park Service because 
that's a very complicated, multiple-answer question.
    Senator Manchin. Sure, I understand that, yes.
    Mr. Shafroth. But that said, I am aware, having spent a lot 
of time with the Park Service leadership on this point, is that 
there are a number of projects that are----
    Senator Manchin. As a foundation you are all looking. You 
are watching things all the time anyway.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Shafroth. I know that they have their important 
projects like the Grand Canyon water line that are ready to go, 
that are wanting for funding otherwise and I gather that 
they've got a number of projects, especially for the first year 
or so. I don't think they necessarily wanted to have five 
years' worth of projects ready to go until the bill passed. So 
I think, you know, given it's going to take a little while for 
the money to actually become available----
    Senator Manchin. Yes.
    Mr. Shafroth. ----that they are working on that.
    Senator Manchin. Well, let me tell you what I would be 
looking for and I think all of us would like to have some 
direction from--projects that have started that have been very 
slow-paced because of a lack of funding. They just couldn't, 
you know, they continue at a snail's pace.
    Mr. Shafroth. Right.
    Senator Manchin. Those projects could come to completion 
fairly quick because they are on the move. They are moving 
through the process. That is what we really need to know. We 
need to get an accounting of that. Maybe we can request that, 
Madam Chairman, from the Parks to find out what projects have 
been in place and basically have been slowed down because of 
lack of funding. Those are the ones we could pick up and 
finish.
    Thank you all very much for being here.
    The Chairman. Senator Manchin, we can work with you on 
that, that Parks list, from the appropriations perspective as 
well. But I do have an offer for you. I have got a project for 
you to look at, at Denali National Park. I have pictures that I 
will tease this up, but yes, we have some work to do within our 
Parks and that is, again, why we are looking forward to the 
passage of the Great American Outdoors Act. Thank you for your 
leadership on that and for yours, Senator Daines. 
Congratulations as well.
    Senator Daines. Well, thank you, Chair Murkowski. It was a 
great vote last night in the United States House, and Senator 
Manchin, it was north of 300 on the positives there. It was a 
great, strong, bipartisan vote.
    Senator Manchin. 310.
    Senator Daines. 310, yes, that is great.
    Well, thank you for testifying today on the pandemic's 
impact on the users of public land. This hearing is timely as 
just last night the U.S. House passed the Great American 
Outdoors Act which will greatly benefit the users of our public 
lands. It is also timely as Congressional leadership and the 
Administration are now busy negotiating the scope of the next 
COVID package. And for perspective, the outdoor recreation 
industry which supports over 70,000 direct jobs in Montana has 
been devastated by this pandemic which coincides with what is 
typically our peak season.
    Outfitted tourism is down 60 percent and will continue to 
decline as cancellations roll in during prime summer and fall 
seasons. In fact, over a two-day period there is a hunting 
outfitter out of Big Timber. I have spent a lot of days 
fishing, hunting north of Big Timber as a kid growing up in 
Montana. They experienced a $400,000 loss due to fall 
cancellations. There is another Montana outfitter who was 
forced to close their snowmobile business, and they face a 70 
percent decline in their hunting business. That is why I 
introduced the Trail Stewardship for Economic Recovery Act 
which provides employment opportunities for struggling 
outfitters and guides through trail project contracts in our 
forests.
    Ms. Turner, how does the Trail Stewardship for Economic 
Recovery Act benefit both small businesses, public land and 
public access and how are outfitters and guides uniquely 
qualified to do this type of work?
    Ms. Turner. Thank you for the bill, Senator, and the 
question.
    As we've talked about a little bit here today, costs are 
up, trips are down and many guides and outfitters have lost a 
huge percentage of the time already being closed for the early 
months. What some people don't understand is many of these 
small businesses are the bedrock of rural communities and 
they've been shut for eight months and they have to recoup the, 
you know, entire year's revenue from just a short season that's 
already been shortened. So what this bill does is it helps keep 
FTEs on. It helps them bring their employees back to do 
important maintenance work on public lands and waters. It 
develops important partnerships with the federal agencies to do 
the stewardship work and one of the biggest things is it will 
keep these small businesses around for another season, 
hopefully many more seasons, so that they can really connect 
more Americans to this great outdoor experience. What they 
provide are safe and memorable experiences on our public lands 
and waters for the user community.
    If you've been on a river trip, which I know you have, we 
just talked--on the Yellowstone, I think, fishing last week--
you know there's nobody that knows a river better than a river 
guide. So I have full confidence that the guides and outfitters 
that know these lands, that have been working and running trips 
in these lands would be wonderful stewards for these projects 
and where they don't have expertise there's the core network, 
there's trail builders. There's so many other groups that they 
can rely on for some of that expertise.
    Senator Daines. Thank you.
    And you know, the double whammy here is they are refunding 
dollars of pre-booking so they had the cash sitting in their 
bank accounts and now they are refunding those dollars at the 
same time cancellations going forward are rolling in as well. 
So it is just, it is absolutely the worst storm possible which, 
as you know, is a relatively short season, oftentimes, in 
Montana for those who focus more on the summer months.
    As I mentioned in my opening statement, the leadership is 
currently negotiating the scope of the next COVID package. You 
stated pretty clearly, Ms. Turner, but I am going to say it and 
give you a chance to state it once more, why is it absolutely 
imperative that outfitters and guides are not left out of this 
package?
    Ms. Turner. One thing I haven't mentioned is actually 
outfitters and guides were left out of PPP. PPP did not work 
for seasonal businesses. So when they needed it most, when they 
were starting to turn up and ramp on for their season, April-
May, they couldn't get PPP based on the allotments and how they 
had to measure the revenue. That has been changed by Treasury 
but many of them have missed the window or have already applied 
for a much lower PPP. So really what this is, is a stimulus 
that many other businesses didn't get. They're going to get 
this now through that bill.
    Senator Daines. Thank you. That was very clear.
    The pandemic has coincided with the season typically 
dedicated to wildfire prevention efforts and has now bled into 
wildfire season. The need for socially-distanced vegetation 
management and wildfire prevention sheds light on the 
effectiveness and utility of targeted public land grazing to 
reduce wildfire risk.
    Mr. Lane, in your written testimony you spoke at length 
about the effectiveness of targeted grazing to reduce wildfire 
risks. What do you need from the agencies and from Congress to 
fully utilize and realize the benefits of targeted grazing to 
perform vegetation management?
    Mr. Lane. We need the exact same kind of flexibility we 
were just talking about with Senator Barrasso a minute ago. We 
need the agencies to recognize when there is more forage 
available, they need to be flexible to allow those producers to 
stay out longer to go into those areas where we need to reduce 
fuel loads across a large area in the same way that they 
dynamically react and reduce our access to those areas when 
there is not enough forage available. We need that to move both 
directions, not just for land health but to ensure that we are 
managing those fuel loads in a comprehensive way. We've learned 
fuel breaks work where they work, but they don't work 
everywhere and we need that larger scale lowering of those fuel 
loads. And that's something that the grazing, sort of uniquely, 
is positioned to do.
    Senator Daines. Thank you. I am going to squeeze in one 
more question, Mr. Shafroth.
    You know the National Parks and the gateway communities 
have suffered a major blow due to COVID-19 and, to add insult 
to injury, we just had a horrible fire in downtown Gardiner, 
Montana. We lost several businesses to a fire that was 
accidental. It happened during the afternoon and was yet 
another blow. How can Congress, the National Park Service and 
groups like yours work together to bolster our parks and the 
good paying jobs that go along with them?
    Mr. Shafroth. Well, I think it's in, sort of, Senator, 
thank you for the question, every place is a little different, 
frankly. I mean, I think I was aware of the fire in Gardiner 
and the tragedy that ensued, but I think we have to work 
together to find ways to create a seamless experience in a lot 
of ways for people to come. So if you're going to drive 500 
miles to go to your park, you need to know that you can get 
into the park, that there are outfitters and other 
concessionaires that can help you provide an experience, that 
there's educational opportunities for your kids. And so, I 
think that requires a new level of cooperation and 
collaboration between and among all the different entities, 
public and private and non-profit in order to make that happen.
    Senator Daines. Alright, thank you.
    Thank you, Chairman Murkowski.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Daines.
    Senator King is with us virtually. Senator King.
    Senator King. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank you 
especially for having this important hearing. I think this is a 
great topic for us to be discussing. I don't have much in the 
way of specific questions, but first I want to say, I don't 
think we celebrate enough when we have a success. We always 
focus on the next problem coming down the street. And 
yesterday's passage of the Great American Outdoors Act, I 
think, is a really significant achievement for this Congress. 
It is one that, to say it has been a long time coming, is an 
understatement and it is going to really make a difference for 
generations of Americans. Generations of Americans who won't 
know any of us who passed it, but they will see the handiwork 
that we brought through some hard work and cooperation and 
bipartisanship, all the things that our citizens hope we do.
    Again, I don't really have a question. I do want to 
associate myself with the comments from Senator Manchin about 
broadband. We have learned a lot of lessons from the pandemic. 
We knew before the pandemic that broadband was an issue in 
rural areas, but since the onset of the pandemic we have 
realized it is not just an issue, it is a necessity. It is 
something that really has to be addressed in a comprehensive 
way just as Franklin D. Roosevelt addressed the rural 
electrification question in the '30s. It is exactly similar. It 
is absolutely critical to modern life. I just want to thank all 
of our witnesses for the work that they are doing and have 
done. I think it is prudent to try to get some provisions into 
the new COVID bill that is being discussed to deal with some of 
the specialized, particularly of seasonal businesses that have 
been particularly hard hit this summer. I know that is true in 
Maine as well as across the country.
    So thank you for the hearing. I have enjoyed listening to 
the testimony, and we will look forward to working with you and 
Ranking Member Manchin and the rest of the members of the 
Committee to try to effectuate some of the ideas we have heard 
today. Thank you again, Madam Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator King.
    Let's next turn to Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I just wanted to make a comment regarding Jess Turner's 
comments/testimony. In your testimony you note the importance 
of expanding the core opportunities to employ young Americans 
and veterans to work on public lands as we recover from the 
pandemic. I just wanted to comment that when the Senate 
considered the Great American Outdoors Act, I introduced an 
amendment to clarify that deferred maintenance projects using 
public-private partnerships include organizations with 
qualified youth and conservation corps. While that amendment 
did not get adopted, I will be following up with DOI and USDA 
to make sure that these organizations are not overlooked for 
these projects, because I agree with you that these job 
opportunities are going to be critical to provide for our 
public lands while getting Americans back to work. I have met 
with a number of American Corps young people, and they are very 
eager to be of help. So thank you, Ms. Turner.
    For Mr. Shafroth, you note in your testimony that the 
National Park Foundation hosted webinars to their partners on 
navigating the PPP loan process. Do you have a sense of how 
many representative park partners were able to obtain PPP 
loans?
    Mr. Shafroth. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
    I don't have a number, but I know many of them did. We 
actually, you know, we hosted a webinar and a national law 
firm, Arnold and Porter, offered to provide pro bono assistance 
to any of the friends' groups that wanted help in their 
navigation of that process. But why don't I plan to follow up 
with the Committee to give you some specific information about 
which organizations ultimately applied?
    And Senator, I'll also say that we agree with you on the 
conservation corps issue. We're very actively involved in 
supporting the deployment of conservation corps throughout the 
National Park System. And so we too will work with you to find 
ways to ensure that the funds from Great American Outdoors Act 
and other places can be made available to the use of corps to 
execute those projects.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you. I think if we can all come 
together on supporting the kind of work by the corps then I 
think we can get it done.
    So again, from you, Mr. Shafroth. With regard to the 
patchwork of various state and local mandates on public health 
and safety as it relates to the pandemic, I want to briefly 
touch on reopening. Have you heard any concerns from partners 
about their ability to ensure employee safety, such as 
requiring the use of masks as parks reopen, and do you feel 
that the protections put in place for the National Park Service 
for reopening are sufficient?
    Mr. Shafroth. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
    You know, one of the things that we're trying to do with 
our promotion of the Recreate Responsibly campaign is to ensure 
that all visitors have a strong understanding of the need to in 
a way to behave differently than we have before. I think 
Senator Heinrich was the one that said it earlier before you 
were on the phone, I think, that he described how people have 
really stepped in to a moment really to be more sensitive and 
aware of others. I don't know, my understanding, Senator, is 
that the Park Service decisions about social distancing and 
wearing a mask is something that is on a park-by-park basis. So 
it's difficult to say uniformly whether or not every park is, 
you know, doing things at a point where they could or should 
be. I do know that many of the local partner, friends' 
organizations are adhering to the local guidance from the 
governors and health offices.
    So again, if we can collect some additional information, 
we're happy to get that for you.
    Senator Hirono. Don't you think that we should have, kind 
of, a standard set of requirements for a park reopening other 
than the patchwork that we are experiencing?
    Mr. Shafroth. Well, that's certainly an option. One of the 
things that you may not know about us is we don't really get 
into the policies of the Park Service and telling them what to 
do and how to do it. We're there to support them to help them 
execute their goals and their projects and programs, but again, 
if there's something we can do to gather some more information 
for you to help you better understand what's going on, we're 
happy to do that.
    Senator Hirono. Again for Mr. Shafroth. Does the Foundation 
have any plans or strategies to use funds to help smooth out 
the differences of where some parks are experiencing 60 percent 
drop and then there are others--it is a whole range of changes 
that have happened. So do you have any plans to use funds to 
help smooth out the differences between parks across the 
country?
    Mr. Shafroth. Senator, thank you for the question.
    We discussed that a little bit with Senator Heinrich 
earlier, but yes, I think one of the big challenges we have 
right now is in dispersing visitation both within parks that 
have high visitation as well as across the National Park 
System. We have 419 national park units, more than half of that 
is at about 30% of our parks. And so, we must do better using, 
through the use of technology, I think. Imagine a Waze app that 
you could have in a, when you go into a park to understand the 
density of visitors in certain parts of the park versus other 
parts of the park. Would it help inform where you went and what 
time of day you went, et cetera?
    Similarly, you know, we need to--we have something called 
our Lesser Known Parks program which helps visitors, potential 
visitors to parks, understand some of the lesser known places. 
Everybody knows about Yosemite and Yellowstone, Grand Teton, 
Denali and Acadia, et cetera, but very few people know at this 
point even about White Sands National Park and the literally 
hundreds of historical and cultural sites around the Park 
System. So we're very actively involved in drawing more 
attention to those places and hopefully drawing more visitors 
to them.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you very much. Thank you, and thanks 
to the Foundation for all that you do.
    Mr. Shafroth. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hirono. I appreciate what 
you have just added there at the end, Mr. Shafroth. I think 
that is something that we all get focused on our favorite parks 
or the ones that, perhaps, are most well known, but we have 
some extraordinary treasures in other parts of the country--
that a little bit of encouragement to go to the lesser known 
parks, I think, is good.
    Mr. Shafroth. Wrangell-St. Elias is a good one for 
instance.
    The Chairman. It is one of the best, isn't it? In fact, I 
would hope to get out there in August.
    Let's go to Senator Hoeven from the great State of North 
Dakota.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Madam Chairman, I appreciate it 
very much and speaking of, we all tend to focus on our favorite 
parks. I am going to do that right off the bat and start with 
Mr. Shafroth and bring up the Theodore Roosevelt National Park 
in North Dakota which is truly wonderful and beautiful. And you 
know, obviously with the passage of the Great American Outdoors 
Act now by the House and waiting for the President's signature, 
a very important part of that was the Restore Our Parks Act 
which I co-sponsored along with others and that provides a lot 
of funding for addressing deferred maintenance in our parks.
    Can you talk to me a little bit about your thoughts on 
addressing deferred maintenance in the Theodore Roosevelt 
National Park, particularly the scenic loop in the South Unit? 
I would appreciate your thoughts and your comments.
    Mr. Shafroth. Sure, thank you, Senator Hoeven, and thanks 
again for your support for the Great American Outdoors Act and 
Restore Our Parks.
    Yeah, and I apologize, I have the numbers memorized for 
many parks, but I can't remember whether it's $34 or $43 
million in deferred maintenance work that needs to be done at 
Teddy Roosevelt National Park, including filling the sinkhole 
in that road you described and as well as many other aspects, 
the visitor center, the maintenance shed, the Peaceful Valley. 
There's lots of work that continues, that needs to be done 
there. Those are all very important things. I don't think--we 
talked a bit about this earlier, about the process by which the 
Park Service and Congress will prioritize the projects that get 
done, but I think the challenge that exists in the park in 
North Dakota, Senator, as well as many others is how do we 
combine, you know, the private resources with the Great 
American Outdoors Act and maybe other federal resources to both 
address the deferred maintenance backlog as well as the 
modernization of these places.
    And I think you understand, having been to the visitor 
center in Teddy Roosevelt National Park that it's fine if we 
repair the roof and fix the windows, things like that, and the 
HVAC, but we really want to have a different kind of 
experience, especially with the future development of the 
Theodore Roosevelt, President Theodore Roosevelt Presidential 
Library Foundation. And so, we need to, kind of, try to lift 
up, I think, all of those assets at the same time.
    Senator Hoeven. Talk a little bit as well about your 
support for the library project.
    Mr. Shafroth. Sure. The Foundation has been working very 
closely with the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library 
Foundation to try to work in tandem with them and the Park 
Service to create a more complete experience to the visitor who 
comes to Medora, to the park, to the area, to learn about the 
life and legacy of Theodore Roosevelt. And so, we're, you know, 
actually right now, they're in the process of identifying an 
architect to create, to look at ways in which we can create 
distributed experiences for visitors to that part of the, of 
your state. And you know, whether it be the Medora show or you 
know, the experiences that will happen in a building that the 
Library Foundation will have and as well as the many 
experiences that one could have in the Park, whether it be 
potentially mountain biking from the North Unit to the South 
Unit to having wilderness experiences and other kinds of 
recreational amenities. That's going to create, you know, that 
integrated, collaborative experience that I think we can create 
there is very exciting.
    Senator Hoeven. I would like to go to Mr. Lane, if I could, 
for just a minute.
    In your opinion, on the public lands, what can Congress do 
to help our cattlemen? It is such a hard time out there for our 
ranchers and our cattlemen and, of course, they graze on the 
national grasslands. What, in your opinion, could we do in 
Congress to help improve how we do that on our public lands and 
how we can help our ranchers, our cattlemen?
    Mr. Lane. I think--I appreciate the question. I think first 
and foremost looking at that regulatory structure that 
cattlemen deal with now when they're working with federal 
grazing permits is the biggest area where Congress can help, 
making sure to communicate to the agencies what your 
expectation is of the implementation of the myriad laws that 
they have to navigate in order to implement those permits. I 
think there's a lot of fear in federal lands management as it 
relates to grazing at this point. I think because of the 
litigation that impacts almost every decision made by either 
the Forest Service or the BLM, more than I can list in a 
hearing like this. Rather than making the decision that's best 
for the resource, they make the decision that's most likely to 
avoid them spending the next ten years in court with activist 
litigants. So I think wherever you can look for opportunities 
to bolster their decision-making and give them a firm base 
within which to make the best decision for the resource, you're 
empowering them to make better decisions for our producers 
across the country.
    Senator Hoeven. Okay, my time is up here, but if you have 
other specific ideas that you think would help, I would really 
appreciate if you would forward them to my office.
    Thanks so much, and thank you, Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hoeven.
    Let's turn to Senator Cortez Masto.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Chairwoman.
    Let me also echo Senator Hoeven's response and question to 
Mr. Lane. It is great to see you here. I support targeted 
grazing. I think you do need the flexibility to reduce fuel 
loads. Any other ideas you have, please send those to my office 
as well.
    I appreciate you participating and every one else for being 
here as part of this important panel.
    Mr. Kemper, I would like to start with you. In your written 
testimony you mentioned that there is a scarcity of water 
treatment officers and that this was a concern prior to the 
pandemic, but specifically your testimony references that 
because water is undervalued, we have a hard time recruiting 
people to work in the industry. So is there a strong role for 
the Federal Government to play in helping to facilitate that 
workforce development as it relates to water and water 
infrastructure?
    Mr. Kemper. Thank you for your question, Senator.
    Yes, I do think there is, especially helping out with 
education and there's a role for training operators, water and 
wastewater operators. So I do think that in providing just 
cross training of water and wastewater operators would be 
really a benefit and that could come from the Federal 
Government and also, just assistance should we actually run 
short of operators to be able to provide help in that regard. 
Yes, it would be very beneficial.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Yes, the workforce--there is no 
doubt, it is a key and it is a constant we keep hearing over 
and over again.
    Mr. Hepler, let me ask you this. In your testimony you 
state that social distancing requirements have complicated 
state and federal Aquatic Invasive Species (AIS) management and 
control efforts across the country. If left unchecked, AIS will 
spread within a water body and through recreational boating and 
other water sports activities and be inadvertently spread to 
other water bodies. Obviously we all have concerns about that. 
Can you further elaborate on the preventative measures that are 
being put in place by wildlife agencies at boat inspection 
points and your concerns there.
    Mr. Hepler. Thank you, Senator.
    Yeah, this is, this actually hits home to South Dakota very 
well. We had zebra mussels show up in a top end of a drainage 
that borders with North Dakota/South Dakota and this drainage 
comes out to a lot of very important lakes for recreational 
use, home use and also one of our major hatcheries. And you 
know, when this, when COVID first hit, you know, we wanted to 
have teams out there checking boats, checking waters and 
because of our concern about getting social distancing, we just 
couldn't, we weren't in a place to be able to do that until we 
worked through and came to those safe measures.
    And so, we look at that and we can do those on the ground, 
but also the cooperation between states, you know, with Senator 
Barrasso and Wyoming and how we interact with how they do 
business and their lakes are a little bit different than ours. 
How we interact with Minnesota, these border states and that 
happens across the country, that communication is key. Every 
state is driven a little bit differently than other states by, 
you know, how the Governor, how they view the importance of 
invasive species or not. Governor Noem in the State of South 
Dakota last year sponsored some legislation to really raise the 
awareness. It brought into the cabinet discussion, just not us 
from Fish and Game, but also the Agriculture Department because 
that's really where the greatest concern is for a lot of these 
invasive species and get--in going through your dams.
    So I think there's been a lot of work, but I mean, what's 
frustrating with this is that for the most part all can you do 
is slow the spread and I'd love to be able to say there's some 
magical way, a lot of ways we can stop these things, 
unfortunately there's not. And I don't know how kind our 
children are going to feel when they come to look at some of 
these things, but we're trying and we are trying to slow that 
spread, but it's a heck of a deal. And I certainly appreciate 
the work of those federal agencies getting some of that funding 
and there's some bills out there, talk some more about that. 
But you know, we're open to other ideas of communication, but 
you know, we have to make a difference. We have to at least 
give this a shot.
    Senator, I hope that answered your question.
    Senator Cortez Masto. It does, thank you.
    And then, coming from Nevada we are seeing more wildfires, 
in general. I mean, just talking with all of you because I 
think as I am hearing more people are out recreating, maybe, 
for the first time, it is important that we have an education 
campaign for people to understand the responsibility as well.
    Any other ideas that any of you have because I do have 
concerns about wildfires, rangeland fires, fires in our parks. 
We are seeing more of that, unfortunately caused by humans. And 
so, any other thoughts on what we need to know at a federal 
level that we have not talked about already in this panel 
discussion which has been fantastic? So thank you, and I will 
just open it up to the panel.
    Mr. Lane. Yeah, Senator, I think as the grazing community 
really sees a lot of this firsthand as they're working their 
ranches and they see those recreation enthusiasts come out onto 
their grazing allotments. I think education, not just about, 
kind of, how those resources are being used, but where they are 
is a critical part of that. Mixed surface management 
responsibility for those of us that work in these environments 
can still be very confusing. Am I on Forest Service land? Am I 
on BLM land? Am I on private land? And what are the changes I 
need to make in how I'm recreating based on which of those I 
might be on, or state land for that matter.
    I think that there's far too little interpretation and 
information available out there for visitors to public lands 
that's easily accessible. If they can grab a map when they're 
heading out into the back country, if they can have some more 
information on gosh, when I'm crossing over a cattle guard I 
need to make sure that I leave a gate the way I found it 
because there's either some animals that need to kept in or 
kept out of a certain area or there's a sensitive species 
that's being managed very carefully in this area or that. I 
think most of that is completely missed and it's not their 
fault, it's just not something they're aware of if they're not 
having to deal with it on a day in, day out basis. So I think 
that education component needs to be far more comprehensive and 
far more readily accessible to those users.
    Mr. Kemper. Senator, certainly doing everything we can. 
Colorado has a forest and water alliance, California has a 
similar group, that are really working to try to increase the 
pace and scale of work on resilient forests, things like the 
Collaborative Forest Landscape Restoration Program, the Water 
Source Protection Program. But as it was referenced in earlier 
testimony, I think that I, you know, we've had 9,000, 9,000 
boat decontaminations so far this year that is removing aquatic 
nuisance species from boats and that education is really 
important. Those are 9,000 opportunities.
    The other problem that we have is that people are not 
necessarily knowing what's a public land and what's not and 
access to water infrastructure and there's a story in my 
testimony about the difficulties that when we have Ag 
infrastructure that is on public lands that people are leaving 
gates open, not knowing where they are supposed to be and not. 
So there's concern there.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I know I have gone over my 
time. Thank you very much.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cortez Masto.
    I think we have had a good range of questions here this 
morning, and I appreciate the range from colleagues here and 
the responses from our panel. I just have a couple more here 
before we wrap up.
    I mentioned I really had a great two weeks when I was back 
home, but don't let me digress, then I will start showing you 
my pictures. But one of the things that I saw when I was in 
Denali National Park, as folks are aware, you have one very 
long, very narrow and very scenic road deep into the park and 
during the season you are able to gain access by way of a bus 
and it is not a fancy bus, it is a bus. As a result of the 
limitations in the park and the social distancing requirements, 
we have seen fewer people in those buses, fewer buses, but I 
commend the leadership there at Denali in recognizing that they 
needed to figure out a little bit of flexibility if we are 
going to get people into the park. How do we do this and do it 
safely?
    I ran into two commercial operators who have temporary 
commercial use authorizations and they guide very small 
groups--when I say small, two cars. So this is a pretty limited 
situation. One was actually guided by a fellow who was driving 
a Tesla which is a feat in itself over those gravel roads. Nice 
car, but that is the first electric car to be piloting into the 
park. The other group was one pilot car, a Jeep and two other 
Jeeps again. So very limited, very small, but it gives a level 
of flexibility and it gives some opportunities with temporary 
permits. I was pleased to see that in Denali.
    Does anybody have any suggestions as to ways that either 
through Interior or Forest Service we can provide greater 
flexibility to those who do have permits in recognizing that we 
are all looking to accommodate in different ways and it might 
look different in other areas? Maybe, Ms. Turner, you have some 
examples that you have heard of? I am curious to know if anyone 
has any suggestions with regards to that?
    Ms. Turner.
    Ms. Turner. Thank you for that, and I've actually been on 
that Denali helicopter ride and landed on a glacier so I know 
exactly what that experience is like and it's really 
unfortunate that less people are having that experience.
    You know, I think the fee waivers right now are so top of 
mind because they're so necessary to just keep these folks in 
business. But beyond that, contract extensions and permit 
extensions are incredibly important. The agencies aren't going 
to be processing new permits, so it's really important that 
businesses have some certainty that maybe they'll have a year 
or two more on their contract to figure something out, like you 
saw in Denali. And then, I think, the SOAR Act has a lot of 
flexibilities in it that would provide help and support for 
guides and outfitters, concessionaires, permittees for a while 
beyond this pandemic.
    The Chairman. Thanks, I appreciate that.
    We have talked about the increase in visitation whether it 
is on our national parks or our state parks or our public 
lands, and I think that that is good as families have gotten 
outdoors and obviously the effort that the President will 
hopefully soon sign into law, the Great American Outdoors Act, 
again is going to encourage that we are doing more to just 
better take care of our parks and our public areas.
    Any suggestions to us on what Congress and our federal land 
managers can do to ensure that we sustain this momentum by 
local tourism that we have seen this summer? Again, I mention 
things slow down in Alaska in the winter time. It is different, 
again, in places that host ski areas, but I think we recognize 
the value that these tourist dollars bring to many of our 
communities. Not only the value, but just the enhancement to 
our lives when we are able to get out and recreate like this. 
We don't want to have another pandemic situation next summer. 
We don't want that to be the thing that keeps us continuing to 
visit our public lands. Any suggestions in terms of how we 
continue with the efforts that will bring increased 
visitorship?
    Mr. Shafroth. Madam Chairman, a thought that I have is, you 
know, we are engaged in a pretty active campaign right now to 
welcome people back to the parks. We have two different, sort 
of, ads out there, alright--one called ``Wonder Calls,'' 
another one related to the appreciation of our Park Service 
employees and the hard work they do. And I think those messages 
kind of continue to remind people that these places are 
amazing. They're part of our legacy, our history. I'll also say 
combined with some messages around how to recreate responsibly 
so--people are, you know, fearful at some level and we need to 
let them know that there's a way that we can do this that's 
safe to allow you to get back in the park and do what you want 
to do. So I kind of feel like there's dual messages we need to 
continue to push out there to remind people how great they are 
and just to make sure they understand that it's a little bit of 
a different game.
    Ms. Turner. And I would just add the health connection. I 
think we're seeing the outdoors as really a solution, possibly, 
or helpful in the pandemic. People need Vitamin D. They need 
exercise. They need to be experiencing the outdoors. I think 
connecting parks and our public lands really to health, keeping 
people healthy and communities healthy is maybe a new message. 
We've known this all along, but the American public seems to 
have really taken that to heart lately. And if we could 
continue to connect that, I think we can create lifestyles 
where people weave outdoor activity and these parks and public 
lands into their daily habits.
    The Chairman. Mr. Lane.
    Mr. Lane. I think we also need to make sure that we're 
paying attention to the health of the resource as we see these 
balances change of people using these landscapes, particularly 
where we see municipalities meeting some of these managed 
federal environments. Some of the prescribed burns that 
otherwise would have helped keep those resources healthy have 
been canceled or delayed due to COVID-19, looking for some 
opportunities to use tools like grazing as a substitute to 
ensure that where we couldn't get our first choice done to 
manage some of those fuel loads, that we can put some other 
tools in place to ensure that the work still gets done and that 
we still have those active management regimes in place is 
important as we move through this, sort of, fluid time in 
managing these lands.
    The Chairman. Mr. Hepler.
    Mr. Hepler. Madam Chair, I'd also add that, you know, 
besides the health piece which we absolutely agree with, we're 
going to work that at a national level, is that this is an 
opportunity to get people in the past where we maybe haven't 
been in the indoor parks whether they're federal or state. And 
so, whether they're--so we want people of color to be able to 
come in these parks and do it safely. There's a whole diversity 
there and if we want to remain relevant as state agencies and 
as federal agencies, you know, we need to make sure the whole 
broad spectrum that represents this great country of ours, is 
welcoming to our public areas. And there's a certain amount of 
responsibility that comes with that.
    I think this is one golden opportunity. One good thing that 
can come out of this COVID-19 crisis we're in is bringing those 
people into the fold and let them now it's good to get outside 
and whether that's outside in the city park in a big city, you 
know, or coming to one of our wonderful state parks. By the 
way, we're open for business in South Dakota. We'd love to have 
you come visit. Come to South Dakota. But either way, it's the 
same message. We want to be able to do it safely, feel 
comfortable and enjoy themselves.
    The Chairman. Right.
    Mr. Kemper, do you want to add a final word there?
    Mr. Kemper. The other thing that is not quite relevant to 
that but the concern out there about the loss of revenue from 
severance tax is really having a huge impact and there's a lot 
of collaborative efforts that go on that some of that money 
gets directed toward both for aging infrastructure for water 
and it's something I think would be helpful for the Committee 
to keep monitoring on as that loss of production and the 
severance tax impacts because it does impact the investments in 
the forest landscape resiliency program.
    The Chairman. Well, I appreciate you adding that. I think 
we had a good discussion about some of the impact of the 
deferred maintenance issues on our public lands, and we 
recognize that.
    A couple of you have mentioned the need to make sure that 
we are being responsible out there, and I had mentioned that 
several of the experiences that I had were very positive where 
people are accepting certain protocols as they are out enjoying 
our parks. I am also hearing that as we are encouraging more of 
the local people around our parks to use our parks during this 
time of COVID, for oftentimes what happens is those that are 
closest to the parks are so busy serving the people who are 
coming from other areas that they don't even get into these 
very special places.
    At a time like this where perhaps your small business is 
not operating or it is at greatly reduced volumes, you actually 
have time to go out and experience it yourself. I have heard in 
my state some Alaskans saying, ``I love this area, but I felt 
like I was not welcomed in my park.'' That is hard to hear, and 
that is not the message that we want, whether it is from our 
parks or from our Forest Service or from those who are managing 
our public lands. These are America's areas. These are all of 
our ours. This is not something special just built for Park 
Service employees or for Forest Service employees to enjoy the 
benefit.
    I think it is important that we respect the fact that we 
welcome all Americans to our parks and whether it is the locals 
or whether it is families who have never had that opportunity. 
We mentioned people of color and doing more to make them feel 
welcome in our parks. This is a job and a responsibility that 
we all have.
    So we will be working toward that, but thank you for your 
input this morning. I think it has been very helpful, and as we 
move forward with this next round of COVID relief, know that 
many on this Committee are looking out for those who have been 
impacted in ways and perhaps not seen that level of support 
that will be necessary to carry them through.
    With that, I thank you again and the Committee stands 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:11 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.]

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