    [Senate Hearing 116-376]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 116-376

                THE IMPACTS OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC ON
                 USERS OF PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND NA-
                 TIONAL PARKS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                 JULY 23, 2020

                                   __________

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                           Printed for the use of the
                   Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                   __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    40-922                     WASHINGTON : 2021

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                   COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                        LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
    JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
    MIKE LEE, Utah                       MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
    STEVE DAINES, Montana                BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
    BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
    CORY GARDNER, Colorado               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
    CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
    MARTHA McSALLY, Arizona              ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
    LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee           CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
    JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota

                          Brian Hughes, Staff Director
                          Lucy Murfitt, Chief Counsel
                Nick Matiella, Senior Professional Staff Member
                     Renae Black, Democratic Staff Director
                    Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
                    David Brooks, Democratic General Counsel
                         Darla Ripchensky, Chief Clerk

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page
    Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Alaska....     1
    Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
      West Virginia..................................................     3

                                   WITNESSES

    Hepler, Hon. Kelly R., Secretary, South Dakota Department of
      Game, Fish and Parks, on Behalf of the Association of Fish and
      Wildlife Agencies..............................................     6
    Kemper, Douglas, Executive Director, Colorado Water Congress.....    25
    Lane, Ethan L., Vice President of Government Affairs, National
      Cattlemen's Beef Association...................................    56
    Shafroth, Will, President & CEO, National Park Foundation........    64
    Turner, Jessica (Wahl), Executive Director, Outdoor Recreation
      Roundtable.....................................................    76

              ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

    Appalachian Trail Conservancy:
        Letter for the Record........................................   109
    Hepler, Hon. Kelly R.:
        Opening Statement............................................     6
        Written Testimony............................................     9
    Kemper, Douglas:
        Opening Statement............................................    25
        Written Testimony............................................    27
    Lane, Ethan L.:
        Opening Statement............................................    56
        Written Testimony............................................    58
    Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
        Opening Statement............................................     3
    Martin, Tom:
        Letter for the Record........................................   159
    Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
        Opening Statement............................................     1
    Shafroth, Will:
        Opening Statement............................................    64
        Written Testimony............................................    66
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................   106
    Turner, Jessica (Wahl):
        Opening Statement............................................    76
        Written Testimony............................................    78
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................   108

    THE IMPACTS OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC ON USERS OF PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS,
                               AND NATIONAL PARKS

                                  ----------

                            THURSDAY, JULY 23, 2020

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:21 a.m. in
    Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Lisa
    Murkowski, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

        The Chairman. Good morning everyone, the Committee will
    come to order. We are a few members shy this morning, including
    my Ranking Member. As you know, we are in the beginning of a
    series of votes this morning that just began at ten o'clock. So
    you will see a little bit of disruption in addition to the
    hybrid look of today's hearing, but as we do here in the
    Senate, we improvise and we are flexible. My hope this morning
    is that we will be able to open the hearing and hear from our
    witnesses before we get interrupted again for a second vote. We
    appreciate the flexibility of our witnesses and welcome each of
    you.
        We are here this morning to examine the impact of the
    COVID-19 pandemic on users of our public lands, our national
    forests and our treasured national parks. Five months ago the
    novel Coronavirus became a global pandemic, changing nearly
    every aspect of life as we know it. Public health intervention
    measures were necessary to try to slow the spread of the virus,
    but they have also impacted the use, the management and the
    enjoyment of our federal lands.
        So let's start with our national parks. They normally
    attract more than 120 million visitors from March through July.
    In a typical year, visitors spend $21 billion on travel,
    lodging, food and shopping inside our parks and in our
    neighboring gateway communities. Now obviously this is not a
    normal year and the numbers certainly show it. Visitation is
    down 22 percent in our national parks. Fewer visitors means
    less income and employment for rural tourism dependent on small
    businesses. The National Park Hospitality Association forecasts
    a 46 percent decline in revenue for hundreds of park
    concessionaires this year. I think we recognize that sadly some
    of these smaller businesses will not survive.
        I saw several examples of these impacts myself over the
    Fourth of July recess when I was back home in Alaska. I had an
    opportunity to visit Denali National Park and Katmai National
    Park. On my way into Denali I stopped in the community of
    Talkeetna, just outside the park. This is a community that
    relies very, very heavily on that summer tourism--those
    tourists who want to come up to see Denali but also those who
    go climbing on the mountain, the entire climbing season was cut
    off this year. I was able to talk with the owner of a
    flightseeing company. They provide aviation services and
    spectacular flyovers of the mountain and ferry our hunters
    around during the fall season. Their situation is pretty dire
    right now. They were not able to receive a PSP loan. They are
    very, very worried that they are not going to make it through
    the end of the year. Normally they operate during this part of
    the season. They operate upwards of 20 planes on any given day.
    They only have three in circulation now. I mean, that is
    significant. If you only have three aircraft, that means you
    have fewer pilots. You have fewer maintainers. It just trickles
    all throughout.
        And that business is not alone. I heard the same from other
    small businesses within the community. I visited a small
    boating company. They offer tours up the river. They were only
    operating two or three boats up the Talkeetna, again, at a time
    when they and their crews would just be going gangbusters at
    this point in time. I stopped by the local brewery there in
    Talkeetna, one of the largest employers in that community. They
    have seen a 60 percent decline in revenue. Then at Katmai, I
    had an opportunity to speak with the concessionaires there at
    Brooks Lodge. They are providing only day services rather than
    the overnight accommodations. They are going to be looking to
    see if it is possible to adjust that for a very brief window,
    maybe a month or so. But again, this is a lodge that normally
    would be booked solid for months and months in advance. These
    businesses bear the burden of trying to bring in enough revenue
    to break even or just survive while also welcoming visitors and
    ensuring safe, socially distancing operations. I was encouraged
    as I was in the parks to see almost everyone wearing masks.
    They were adhering to the public health mandates, even in these
    very, very remote areas.
        Outdoor recreation has also taken a big hit in our national
    forests. The outfitter and guide businesses that operate on
    these lands are often seasonal, small mom and pop shops that
    really rely on the visitor travel, and the loss of customers
    during the peak season has just been devastating. And in
    speaking with so many of them, they are looking at having to,
    again, discontinue their services entirely. I think it is
    important, particularly in a place like Alaska where whether it
    is your national parks or your national forests and the
    visitation, our visitation is May through the end of September.
    Beyond that, you just don't see people visiting in Katmai in
    November. You don't see people visiting as tourists in the
    Tongass in February. It just doesn't happen. So for those who
    say we just need to flatten this curve and get beyond it and
    everything is going to be okay, for our industry, for our
    sector here, it is gone. It is done for 2020. And they are
    worried whether they can survive through the beginning of the
    season in 2021. This is very, very real and, of course, it is
    not just for us in Alaska.
        I mentioned winter and whether or not we do see that level
    of tourism. We know that winter recreation did not escape COVID
    either. The 2019-2020 ski season was cut short, forcing every
    ski area on our national forests to close early. As a skier, it
    was devastating to me because we had such a great, epic ski
    year in so many of our areas and we were not skiing.
        The virus is also threatening the way our public lands are
    used to produce food and water. Dam and canal operators
    typically finance large amounts of debt to build infrastructure
    that transports water from watersheds in our national forests
    to cities and to farms, and family-owned ranchers carefully
    budget for infrastructure and livestock purchases to ensure
    rangeland health and productivity under the terms of their
    grazing permits. Some individuals are now struggling to pay
    their water bills and others are buying less meat. This exposes
    ranchers, farmers and water providers to financial risks that
    jeopardize their continued operation.
        Impacts on state governments are also having a ripple
    effect on federal land management. Many state habitat, wildlife
    and invasive species activities did not occur this spring or
    this summer. Some states stopped all non-essential field work,
    including prescribed burns and forest restoration projects on
    neighboring federal lands. Others could not spawn fish in
    hatcheries which has reduced angling opportunities and could
    possibly compromise long-term aquatic species restoration
    goals. In Alaska, we see a prime example of this. The sale of
    non-resident hunting and fishing licenses accounts for a
    substantial portion of funding for our Department of Fish and
    Game. By some estimates, the Department could lose up to 60
    percent of its revenue stream because of this year's depressed
    tourism season. Without that revenue, the state is going to
    have a hard time meeting the matching requirements for the
    Pittman-Robertson grants or the stateside portion of the Land
    and Water Conservation Fund (LWCF). Here we are going to have a
    great opportunity for access to greater LWCF funds, but if the
    state can't meet the matching, it is like we have not helped
    them at all.
        Today we are going to hear testimony from several public
    land user advisor advocacy groups, and as we do it is important
    to consider the scale of the Federal Government's reach. It is
    the single largest landowner in the United States, possessing
    more than a quarter of all land within our borders, more than
    640 million acres in total. The vast majority of those acres
    are located in Alaska and across 11 Western states. COVID-19
    has added a whole new layer of complexity to public land
    management. We need to ensure the Federal Government is
    supporting the users who are essential job creators and
    environmental stewards while also respecting the wishes of the
    local communities who call those areas home.
        With that, I turn to my friend and colleague, Ranking
    Member Manchin, for your opening remarks.

                  STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA

        Senator Manchin. Thank you, Chairman Murkowski, and I thank
    all of you for being here today and those, I think we have a
    couple on the video and we appreciate your expertise too for
    sharing it with us.
        I would like to take a moment to acknowledge that we now
    have 141,000 people who have died in the United States from
    this horrendous virus including 102 West Virginians. Our heart
    goes out to each one of their families and all those left
    behind, and it is just a horrible, horrible, horrible, tragic
    event.
        Today we are going to be discussing the COVID-19 impacts on
    users of public lands. As the case with nearly every facet of
    our society, most users of public lands are continuing to
    experience a disruption to business as usual due to the
    Coronavirus. I believe it is important for public lands to
    remain open, accessible, when it is safely possible to do so,
    not only because they offer a wonderful respite and a way to
    enjoy our great outdoors, but also because they are important
    generators of economic activity, especially, and I mean
    especially, for rural America and West Virginia is all rural.
    Last week I held a virtual feedback session with West Virginia
    leaders to hear directly from them about how we can better
    utilize and direct future COVID-19 funding. Precisely what I
    asked them, tell me what did not work for you in the first
    round of funding that was designed to work for you but did not.
    Tell me what is the greatest need you have now. If we could
    pinpoint just one thing, just give me one. And so, every
    category, we had over 43 different representations of all
    different facets of life in West Virginia, and they all had
    some great, great input to this. It has been very helpful.
        A major problem we are facing in West Virginia is getting
    CARES Act funding out the door to counties and local
    governments. Even the monies that the states have received,
    $1.25 billion to the smallest states and some of you are from
    states like mine. The governors haven't put them out and put
    the money out. Forty-five percent of that was intended. So if
    you were a small state with $1.25 billion, $560 million was
    supposed to, it wasn't in the law, but it was supposed to go to
    the counties, municipalities, non-profits, every one of the
    aspect to keep economies alive, anybody that got, basically,
    harmed because of COVID-19 which everything you're talking
    about today and you're representing, got slammed. That money
    was to be used to keep them whole or try to keep them above
    water, so when a market does return. And I tell people, if you
    think this market is going to return before there is a vaccine
    or an antibody, you are crazy. So people are still scared. We
    must live with that fact until we get a vaccine. It is going to
    be rough but if the money is not distributed, it makes it even
    rougher. So I hope all of you go back home, and start raising
    cane for your share because I can tell you, the national
    average is 16 percent, only 16 percent of the money the
    governors have gotten has gone out to the local communities and
    been distributed around their states.
        I raise that point in relation to the conversation we are
    having here today because in many states those governments rely
    on federal payment and revenue sharing programs from federal
    land management agencies to offset the loss of revenues due to
    the presence of public lands in their jurisdictions. It
    includes important programs like Secure Rural Schools, Payment
    in Lieu of Taxes, the Dingell-Johnson funds for fish
    restoration and royalty payments for energy development. Each
    of these programs provide important lifelines to the states and
    communities all across the country that are experiencing
    unprecedented threats to their budgets due to the Coronavirus.
    I would be remiss if I didn't mention that we just passed the
    Great American Outdoors Act, and that Great American Outdoors
    Act is going to do so much.
        I want to take the time to acknowledge David Brooks. He has
    been working on this Committee for 32 years. David and I were
    talking and he said, ``I never thought this day would come.
    This is the greatest achievement we have made in the last half
    a century, 50 years or more, and I think all of us are going to
    benefit by it.''
        I look forward to hearing from each one of you about your
    concerns and challenges. I also hope we will be able to hear
    from the Department of the Interior and Forest Service in the
    near future so that we can better understand their plans for
    reopening federal lands in a manner that protects the health
    and safety of public land visitors and agency employees,
    consistent with federal and state health guidelines.
        I would like to take a moment and turn to some good news
    and that is, again, the Great American Outdoors Act, which we
    are very, very pleased about. It will be a major investment
    that public land users in this great country will enjoy for
    generations to come, and I know my children and grandchildren
    will enjoy it. The Great American Outdoors Act is going to
    provide permanent and mandatory funding for Land and Water
    Conservation Fund, at a fully authorized level of $900 million
    annually and $9.5 billion for deferred maintenance for projects
    on federal lands with 70 percent of that amount dedicated to
    national parks. Passage of the bill's historic achievement, I
    believe, everyone understands that is in this line of work and
    everyone who has ever enjoyed the outdoors. The fact that we
    were able to get this bill through the Senate and the House in
    a relatively short timeframe in the most toxic environment I
    have ever lived through in my life, speaks volumes of the
    importance of the great outdoors and the conservation and the
    environment that we are all responsible for.
        With that, I want to thank Chair Murkowski for having this
    hearing, and I look forward to hearing from all of you and the
    witnesses.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Manchin.
        I think we are looking forward to having the President sign
    the Great American Outdoors Act and, as you point out,
    finalizing----
        Senator Manchin. Yes.
        The Chairman. ----and ensuring that good work goes forward.
        We are joined by a strong panel here this morning as we are
    looking at the impacts of COVID-19 on our public lands. We are
    going to begin our panel this morning with a couple of
    witnesses that are joining us virtually and three that are here
    in person.
        We are going to start this morning with the Honorable Kelly
    Hepler, who is the Secretary for the South Dakota Department of
    Game, Fish and Parks on behalf of the Association of the Fish
    and Wildlife Agencies (AFWA). I think it is important to also
    note that in addition to his work in South Dakota, Mr. Hepler
    was in the State of Alaska for about 35 years, as I understand,
    working for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. So he is
    uniquely poised to speak, not only about Alaska's perspectives
    and operations but also where he is in South Dakota with their
    Department of Game, Fish and Parks. So we welcome Mr. Hepler to
    the Committee.
        Also virtually, we are joined by Mr. Douglas Kemper. Doug
    is the Executive Director for the Colorado Water Congress. We
    are pleased to have him.
        Here in the Committee room we have Mr. Ethan Lane, who is
    the Vice President of Government Affairs for the National
    Cattlemen's Beef Association (NCBA). We welcome you.
        We are also joined by Mr. Will Shafroth. Will is the
    President and CEO of the National Park Foundation, so this is a
    good day for you as well with passage of the Great American
    Outdoors Act.
        Then we are also pleased to welcome Ms. Jess Turner, who is
    the Executive Director for the Outdoor Recreation Roundtable
    (ORR).
        We will go in the order as I have introduced you. Again, my
    hope is that we will be able to get through the comments from
    all five of our witnesses this morning and then we might take a
    quick break to go vote. Hopefully we will and that will work
    with our timing. I would ask folks to try to keep your comments
    to about five minutes. Your full statements will be
    incorporated as part of the record, and then we will have an
    opportunity for engagement back and forth. Several of our
    colleagues will also be participating virtually, so there will
    be a lot of moving pieces here but I think we have all got this
    in the age of Zoom and Webex.
        With that, let's begin with you, Mr. Hepler. Welcome to the
    Committee and nice to see you.

          STATEMENT OF HON. KELLY R. HEPLER, SECRETARY, SOUTH
             DAKOTA DEPARTMENT OF GAME, FISH AND PARKS, ON
        BEHALF OF THE ASSOCIATION OF FISH AND WILDLIFE AGENCIES

        Mr. Hepler. Good morning, Madam Chair and Ranking Member
    Manchin, members of the Committee. I do appreciate this
    opportunity to testify this morning and I have testimony this
    morning on behalf of the Association of Fish and Wildlife
    Agencies. As you noted, I'm Secretary of Game, Fish and Parks
    in South Dakota, but also as you noted, Madam Chair, that I
    spent 35 years in Alaska and those were great years. We do have
    some mutual friends here--Mulder, Pat Carter and Rueben and
    others. You also were very gracious and had an intern named
    Maggie Hepler a number of years ago. My wife and I certainly
    appreciate the leadership you showed with my daughter. Thank
    you. But about five years ago I had the great opportunity to
    return back to my home State of South Dakota where I am now the
    Secretary.
        As both Senators mentioned earlier this morning, we are
    certainly in challenging times and this is truly an
    understatement. The effects of COVID-19 are profoundly
    impacting the physical and mental well-being of our nation's
    citizens and the stability of our national and local economies.
    During this pandemic, our natural resources which provide for
    the health and well-being of the public are being relied on now
    more and more. The general public has increased its use of
    state-managed lands and waters at unprecedented levels for much
    needed outdoor recreation and relaxation. Americans
    increasingly are seeking nature on these state lands for
    comfort and healing. This level of public use is presenting new
    opportunities to reach new constituents and driving home the
    relevancy of state fish and wildlife agencies to a person's
    quality of life. As more people experience the proven health
    benefits of the outdoors and nature, many of them engage in
    activities that directly fund species and habitat conservation.
        Hunting and fishing licenses, a lifeblood of state fish and
    wildlife agencies, depend on open lands, water and travel.
    License sales this year vary widely across the country.
    Resident fishing licenses are by far the standout. Compared to
    last year, national sales through April were just under about
    ten percent across the land. In South Dakota we've seen a 27
    percent increase. Unfortunately this is coupled to an 18
    percent decrease nationally on non-resident fishing license
    sales due to state-specific travel restrictions and
    regulations. And in some states, agencies must sell up to six
    times the number of resident licenses to cover the loss of
    revenue from non-resident license sales. Nowhere is this better
    illustrated, Madam Chair, than in Alaska where the Department
    of Fish and Game relies on non-resident license sales to fund a
    significant part of their budget. These sales are down 90
    percent and, I repeat, 90 percent in the first half of 2020
    compared to April 2019. Excise taxes from sales of hunting and
    fishing equipment provide another bright spot for conservation
    and state fish and wildlife agency budgets. Estimated sales of
    guns and ammo have increased by about 300 percent in the second
    half of FY 2020. Revenue generated from these taxes fund
    conservation projects directly benefiting hunters and
    recreational shooters. The sale of angling and gear and motor
    boat fuels and the resulting excise tax receipts have been
    robust since part of the state supports fish projects.
        However, there's an unprecedented strain on state agency
    budgets and fiscal uncertainty is the norm. Mandatory
    reductions in spending authority, hiring freezes, stringent
    spending shrinkages and reduction or elimination of state,
    federal and general funds to state agencies are some of the
    fiscal challenges that they're now facing. Critical NGO
    partners also relied on for match generation have been
    devastated by this economic impact and they've also been put at
    risk--grants, contracts, cooperative agreements that we have
    with these partners. And even though funding is performing
    pretty well, none of us know for certain what's going to happen
    this fall and what that means as far as our hunting licenses.
        Congress has recognized this increased necessity for
    conservation funding, and I thank the Senate for the passage of
    the Great American Outdoors Act. Outstanding work, Senators.
    This will create jobs by addressing the deferred maintenance
    backlog to federal land managers as well as help fund the
    statewide program's Land and Water Conservation Fund, that, of
    course, as Senator Manchin noted, this Act passed the House
    yesterday and congratulations to all. It's going to provide
    some historic funding for many.
        In South Dakota we partner with communities across the
    state to improve the quality of life by funding projects like
    swimming pools, playgrounds and hiking trails. These are the
    type of projects that keep small communities alive, although
    I'm concerned about the ability of these communities to build
    that make them necessary to match. We will continue to rise and
    meet the challenges of this pandemic and look forward to
    working with the Congress to answer their needs. Indeed, state
    fish and wildlife agencies will be resilient, strong and
    ensuring the wise stewardship of fish and wildlife resources
    for the benefit of the current and future generations. We want
    to work with Congress to not only improve our financial
    security to rebuild and our state recreational infrastructure,
    but maybe it is important to bring hope to all those families
    that value the importance of getting outside. Thank you again,
    Madam Chair, for the opportunity to testify, I stand by for
    questions. Thank you, Madam.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Hepler follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Very good, thank you, Mr. Hepler. We
    appreciate that.
        Mr. Kemper, welcome.

    STATEMENT OF DOUGLAS KEMPER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COLORADO WATER
                                CONGRESS

        Mr. Kemper. Good morning. This is Doug Kemper. I am the
    Executive Director of the Colorado Water Congress. It serves as
    a principal voice of Colorado's water community. I'm also here
    representing the National Water Resources Association. I serve
    as the Chair of the State Executives. Most Western states have
    an organization somewhat similar to ours, and collectively we
    represent the majority of water use in the Western United
    States. Much of our water supply does come off of federal
    lands, parks and forests, and I'm here to talk a little bit
    about how COVID is affecting the water community--to cover five
    different topic areas. As we look at some of the COVID impacts,
    some--many are yet to be fully felt. There's some unevenness of
    impacts from place to place and type of water use but there is
    a general concern about the delays and funding for aging water
    infrastructure replacement.
        First, on the safety and health of employees, our staff
    that work out in the field provide critical daily functions
    that cannot be performed remotely and there's a need for better
    preparedness. Most of us did not have a COVID scenario in our
    budgets as we were preparing for 2020. We do need stockpiles of
    PPE. We need some better messaging that water supply and water
    quality remain good and certainly, also, is stop flushing of
    flushable wipes has been a real problem for our wastewater
    folks. We do need better training and cross-training of
    operators. We already have a shortage of water and wastewater
    operators.
        From infrastructure funding in my written materials there's
    being that they're from Idaho, that as commodity prices drop
    and the economy is falling, you know, construction costs are
    going up. This puts more pressure on local government's ability
    to fund and especially about concern of the ability to for
    state and local match for costs. Farmers need help and they
    need preparation. We need to invest in water infrastructure,
    and those investments return huge economic impacts. The
    irrigated ag needs to, in Western Colorado, really supports our
    local communities and it's very important. We need to,
    according to ASCE, we've got an $84 billion gap in water and
    wastewater facility funding, $45 billion in aging, high hazard
    dams, $80 billion in levees.
        We want to thank Senators Gardner and Bennett for their
    support for revenue stabilization assistance for Colorado. A
    recent survey by Colorado Municipal League shows that 80
    percent of our municipalities expect a general fund shortfall
    of 20 percent in 2020. This is going to affect reducing
    critical services, staffing and controlled maintenance. We're
    seeing a precipitous drop in natural resource production and
    severance tax that comes from that. Sixty percent of that in
    Colorado is used for rural communities for funding. We're
    seeing an 81 percent decline in Colorado of severance tax and
    we've had, our state government has moved over $45 million from
    its funds to balance the general budget that would normally
    have gone to water infrastructure funding. We're very concerned
    about any work on shutoffs or federal mandates on shutoffs. I
    think that most of our local water providers are doing an
    excellent job of working with providers--with the customers to
    mitigate any kind of impacts there.
        We've already mentioned the forest health, and that's a
    major concern. Aquatic nuisance species control, you know, we
    had 9,000 boat decontaminations this year and had 50, through
    this year, 5,200 from this time last year. And the forest to
    faucets programs, the resilient forests and the water source
    protection programs are all very important. Our special
    districts that were left out of the CARES Act and PPP programs
    need some help. These are really important districts that
    provide services where cities and counties cannot. You can look
    for more work there coming from special districts on mitigation
    for funding there.
        In conclusion, the long-term plans are in flux really due
    to uncertainty of COVID, and that's really saying something for
    a water community that's constantly buffeted by weather and
    changes in the economy. Nobody's giving up. We generally have a
    very positive attitude, but we do need the Federal Government
    as a partner. I want to thank all of our Western Senators for
    their help and, as we're kicking around ideas in the water
    community, your names are all coming up very regularly and we
    really thank you for your support.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Kemper follows:]
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        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Kemper. We appreciate that.
        We will come back to the Committee room here and hear from
    Mr. Ethan Lane. Welcome.

       STATEMENT OF ETHAN L. LANE, VICE PRESIDENT OF GOVERNMENT
             AFFAIRS, NATIONAL CATTLEMEN'S BEEF ASSOCIATION

        Mr. Lane. Thank you, Chair Murkowski for inviting me today.
    Ranking Member Manchin, thank you as well. My name is Ethan
    Lane. I am the Vice President of Government Affairs for the
    National Cattlemen's Beef Association. NCBA is the oldest and
    largest trade association representing the U.S. cattle and beef
    industry. Formerly, I was the Executive Director of the Public
    Lands Council which is the only organization that advocates
    solely for the 22,000 grazing permit holders that operate on
    Western federal lands in the United States.
        The testimony I offer today I hope will address two
    different issues. One, those issues germane to this Committee's
    jurisdiction, but two, hopefully to present to you a larger
    picture of what Western ranchers are dealing with in the face
    and context of COVID-19 over the past few months. It has truly
    been a challenging environment for our industry.
        In April of 2020 some of the leading economists in the
    country, specifically agricultural economists, found that the
    economic impact to the U.S. cattle industry from COVID-19 was
    at $13.6 billion and climbing. According to producers who sold
    cattle throughout the spring, their payments that they received
    for their live animals were something like 30 to 50 percent
    reduced from what they expected when they entered this season.
    For cow/calf producers operating on Western grazing allotments,
    this is perhaps even more exacerbated by the year-round nature
    of their businesses. That economic impact report estimated that
    $111 could be attributed as lost to each steer sold this year
    with an escalating loss to $247 moving into 2021 without some
    mitigating assistance.
        The brunt of this economic impact really stems from some of
    the slowdowns that we saw in the processing sector. Obviously
    that was a large story during the peak of COVID-19, but it led
    to a tremendous backup of cattle and livestock on Western
    grazing lands and in the grazing industry, in general. Those
    producers chose not to follow the path that we saw in some of
    the other protein spaces by looking for options for
    depopulation and, instead, looked for areas to augment feed
    supplies, look for areas for additional forage and sustain
    those cattle until they could be processed in a timely manner.
    That strategy has proven successful, but we are now dealing
    with some of the other impacts that have been discussed here
    today, especially for those producers that are operating in the
    West.
        In particular, speaking to the Chairman's comments when she
    opened this hearing, while there is a dramatic reduction in,
    maybe, formulized attendance at some of those national park
    sites, there is a dramatically increased amount of public usage
    of some of those public lands, particularly surrounding large,
    metropolitan areas. Our producers are seeing large surges of ad
    hoc usage of those lands which already before this pandemic
    were quite popular with the American people. That is the point.
    This is a multiple-use environment. That's something that our
    producers hold very dear. They have managed in that environment
    for sometimes as much as seven generations, but at the volumes
    that we're seeing now, we are seeing some of those resources
    stretched beyond what they can really sustain. We're seeing
    water sources that are used, not just by livestock but by
    wildlife as well, encircled by large SUVs, four-wheel drive
    vehicles and other resources while ignoring requests that those
    be handled in a way that provides access for wildlife and
    livestock to those water sources. We're seeing new trails being
    made on an ad hoc basis by some of those off-road vehicles, by
    hikers, by others, without regard to the ecosystems that they
    are engaging in. And while we want to make sure that everybody
    enjoys those public lands and benefits from them equally, the
    regulatory environment that ranchers operate in basically means
    that as they go home with a consequence-free experience on
    their public lands, the ranchers that are held to a very high
    standard and constant scrutiny are left to deal with the
    ramifications both from a land/health perspective and an
    infrastructure cost perspective once that visit from the public
    is over.
        We look forward to working with this Committee, with the
    Department of the Interior and USDA to try to find some ways to
    manage those roadblocks that are in the way of our producers
    doing the work that they need to do. As the rest of the economy
    shut down over the last four or five months, ranchers still
    showed up for work every day. Ranchers still ensured that there
    was beef at the center of American plates and they also ensured
    that the 250 million acres that we help manage in partnership
    with the Federal Government, continued to get that sustainable
    operational management that we have been providing for so long.
    So we look forward to your questions. We look forward to the
    discussion and look forward to charting a path forward for
    helping to manage these lands.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Lane follows:]
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        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Lane.
        Mr. Shafroth, welcome to the Committee.

             STATEMENT OF WILL SHAFROTH, PRESIDENT & CEO,
                        NATIONAL PARK FOUNDATION

        Mr. Shafroth. Thank you, Chair Murkowski and Ranking Member
    Manchin, other members of the Committee who may be here
    virtually, I'm Will Shafroth, President and CEO of the National
    Park Foundation, the official philanthropic partner of the
    National Park Service. Today, five months into a global
    pandemic, it remains difficult to gauge the full impact COVID-
    19 will have on those who work for, in or near our parks, as
    well as the millions of Americans for whom national parks are
    an important destination. Especially in the throes of a global
    pandemic, we must all work together to support the National
    Park Service's mission to ensure our parks remain accessible to
    current and future generations.
        During the past five months the National Park Foundation
    has done its best to adapt to the changing times caused by
    COVID-19 by providing new and expanding existing support for
    parks. As the pandemic unfolded, the national parks suddenly
    became less accessible to most Americans. In response, the
    Foundation worked with the Park Service to develop new ways to
    bring parks to America's homes through digital experiences,
    enhanced virtual tours and webcams and auditory experiences
    like PARKTRACKS have allowed people to tune into the sites and
    sounds of national parks from anywhere. On the Foundation
    website we've added more content, including virtual Junior
    Ranger booklets, instructions to earn a Girl Scout 19th
    Amendment badge and even a way to virtually explore Alexander
    Hamilton's journey through our national parks once you watch
    the musical. As in-person park visitation resumes, we must also
    educate visitors about some of the new norms. The Foundation is
    actively involved in the #RecreateResponsibly campaign which
    urges those who visit parks and other public lands to do so in
    the safest possible manner. Some important messages that this
    campaign is conveying include, ``Know Before You Go,'' ``Pack
    Out What You Pack In'' and be prepared with a mask, hand
    sanitizer, food and water.
        As a part of our mission, the Foundation works to support
    non-profit park partners and there are more than 450 of these
    groups that generated an aggregate revenue of more than $1.2
    billion in 2018. Revenue from these partner groups generally
    falls into two categories: philanthropy and earned revenue. As
    parks closed to protect public health, groups reliant on earned
    revenue began to face immediate challenges as funds to pay for
    salaries and overhead dried up overnight. And even with the
    reopening of parks, business remains down and support for park
    education efforts in some parks has diminished. On the
    philanthropic side, most organizations continue to raise money
    for parks, just not as much as before the pandemic. For
    example, many organizations were forced to cancel large, in-
    person fundraising events which can provide a meaningful share
    of a group's annual revenue.
        Further, some donors shifted the focus of their giving to
    COVID-related causes while others are in a wait and see posture
    until there's more certainty in the direction of the economy.
    To support the park partner community during this unprecedented
    time, the Foundation in partnership with the Friends Alliance,
    quickly moved to provide educational and technical assistance
    resources including hosting webinars for friends groups on
    navigating the PPP loan process, sharing experiences across the
    Friends Community on what was working in fundraising and
    convening park partners with NPS leadership to stay abreast of
    emerging issues and priorities for the Park Service. For its
    part, the National Park Foundation has stayed in the market, if
    you will, with our fundraising efforts. We haven't stopped
    asking people for money, basically. And while donations from
    individuals and foundations have remained fairly strong, our
    work with some corporate partners, especially those that have
    been negatively impacted by COVID-19, has been put on, have
    been put on hold. And because national parks are deeply loved
    and a core part of the American DNA, I'm confident that those
    who love our parks will continue to support them.
        As most in the partner community struggle to thrive during
    this challenging time, it's very exciting we also stand at the
    precipice of the enactment of the Great American Outdoors Act.
    And I'd like to thank members of this Committee for your
    support and leadership as this historic legislation will
    provide much needed funding for deferred maintenance in our
    national parks. We at the Foundation and the partner community,
    in general, stand ready to help implement this once-in-a-
    lifetime legislation. With increased federal investment to
    address the park's long overdue maintenance needs, the partner
    community can continue to focus its efforts on funding
    innovative projects that enhance the visitor experience and
    ensure our parks reach their highest potential.
        I'd like to close with one parting thought. We're truly all
    in this together. For our parks to thrive, all of us in the
    park community need to work together--the Park Service, the
    National Park Foundation, local and national partners and
    gateway communities. Congress has already taken really
    important steps for which we all in the community are grateful,
    and we look forward to continue to work with you to do even
    more. Thank you for your time today, and I'll welcome your
    questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Shafroth follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Shafroth.
        Ms. Turner, welcome to the Committee.

    STATEMENT OF JESSICA (WAHL) TURNER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, OUTDOOR
                         RECREATION ROUNDTABLE

        Ms. Turner. Thank you.
        Dear Chairman Murkowski, Ranking Member Manchin and members
    of the Committee, thanks for having me here today to discuss
    the many impacts COVID-19 is having on public land and water
    users and especially the outdoor recreation business user
    community who rely on these special places as the backbone of
    our economic force. ORR is the nation's leading coalition of
    outdoor recreation trade associations, totaling 32 national
    members, representing over 110,000 outdoor businesses and
    covering the entire spectrum of outdoor recreation activities.
    Prior to the pandemic, we generated $778 billion annually,
    comprised 2.2 percent of the U.S. GDP and supported 5.2 million
    American jobs. At a time of unprecedented economic growth, we
    grew faster than the entire economy in every single indicator,
    surpassing other key sectors.
        However, our industry has dramatically changed this year.
    Because of the COVID-19 outbreak and the ensuing efforts to
    mitigate the spread, including social distancing, travel
    restrictions, caps on group sizes, retail and public lands
    closures, outdoor businesses have gone through unprecedented
    downturns and many are still in danger of going out of
    business. Entire supply chains have been disrupted and, as the
    Chairwoman mentioned, recreational businesses who provide
    seasonal opportunities and oftentimes rely on seasonal trips
    and travel should have seen a very busy spring and early summer
    and, instead, were shuttered along with the local, state and
    federal land closures. Eighty-eight percent of our businesses
    surveyed in May laid off or furloughed employees; 94 percent
    saw a decrease in revenue; and astonishingly, all 23,000
    businesses surveyed were experiencing difficulty with
    production and distribution, with 79 percent experiencing
    significant impacts. According to the U.S. Census Bureau our
    industry was the second most affected sector in the entire
    country, behind food and accommodation.
        While our businesses have been reeling from the economic
    shock and shifting to support PPE production and emergency
    response efforts, Americans' lives and communities have also
    dramatically changed. With schools, movie theaters, malls and
    more temporarily closed, Americans are returning to the
    outdoors to provide a necessary reprieve from the intense
    mental and physical stress caused by the pandemic and the vital
    efforts to combat it. In past years less than 50 percent of
    Americans have enjoyed an outdoor recreation experience, and
    yet a May survey found that 81 percent of Americans said they'd
    spent time outside during the pandemic and would continue to do
    so after. Metro areas measured park visitation increases
    ranging from 6 to 145 percent. So similar to past recessions,
    Americans are focusing on their priorities. People want to
    safely get outside with their families where transmission rates
    of the virus are lower. There's no better place than in a park,
    on a river, in a boat, camping in an RV, or on a hiking,
    biking, off-roading trail to do this. Recent data reflects this
    desire. So biking, fishing license sales in state, power
    sports, boat and RV sales have all rebounded since our last
    survey in May, and we're watching the demographics shift to
    younger and first-time buyers.
        We've proved to be a resilient industry, but we are not in
    the clear yet. With more people heading outside and the
    overcrowding of some federal sites, we must also focus on the
    communities who could not access the outdoors in a time when
    they needed it most. As governors restricted travel and
    encouraged residents to use local communities for walks and
    exercise, more than 100 million Americans were not within ten
    minutes of a park or a green space and parks that were
    accessible to them that serve a majority of people of color,
    average half the size and serve more than five times as many
    people per acre than those that serve white communities.
        With rising unemployment and these access and
    infrastructure issues exacerbated by the pandemic, the entire
    recreation industry thanks you sincerely for the Great American
    Outdoors Act which will help build urban parks, make recreation
    safer and more sustainable and, of course, support rural
    economies and jobs. There's never been a better time to
    consider a recreation package to ensure that our Federal
    Government is investing in places and tools that can revitalize
    not just our economy but also our spirit. Through policies like
    the Recreation Not Red Tape Act, for equitable and sustainable
    access, the SOAR Act for flexibility of permits for struggling
    guides and outfitters, ski fee retention and fee waivers to
    support seasonal businesses and an expansion on this
    Committee's great conservation core work to get more youth and
    veterans back to work in the outdoors and recreational trails
    programs full funding so that the full amount of fuel taxes
    that motorize vehicle users pay goes to the improved access for
    all recreation users.
        Support for resilient lands and waters and these policies
    mentioned will invigorate this once vibrant and now struggling
    industry so we can help America recover from this economic
    recession and get back to doing what our industry does best--
    stimulate local economies, put people back to work and support
    all Americans in their pursuit of an outdoor experience. Thank
    you.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Turner follows:]
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        The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Turner. I appreciate what
    you've added in terms of some of the legislative proposals that
    are out there that we might be able to help advance in
    response. I also want to acknowledge your comments about the
    overcrowding. I think it is good, as we, every day try to find
    the bright linings of COVID-19. Some days it is more
    challenging than others, but we have seen families go outdoors
    and recreate at levels and in places that they have not before,
    and I think that is such an extraordinary positive.
        The other observation that I would make is that the users
    that I have come in contact with--users of our parks, users of
    our public lands--have recognized that in order to use and use
    safely, we are accepting certain limitations that perhaps we
    might not have been so eager or willing to do. The example that
    I might share with fellow Committee members, as I mentioned, I
    was in Katmai National Park. Brooks Camp is where they have the
    infamous bear cams where you have the big, lumbering bears
    standing at the falls and waiting for the fish to come into
    their mouth and that is the most highly sought place to park
    your family, watch the bears for hours on end, photograph some
    extraordinary pictures. If you want to look at my pictures, I
    have got some really good ones. But people recognizing that
    they can't all go down to the viewing platform at the same
    time. A willingness to not only wait until it is their turn but
    recognizing that you can't get on the lower platform until
    people have cycled off, that there was a 20 minute, 30 minute
    limitation and not once did I hear somebody say, no, I paid an
    extraordinary amount of money to come out here to view this and
    it is my right to stand here. There was a recognition that we
    want to accommodate others. That, to me, was encouraging. I
    know we don't hear all the times, the good stories, but I think
    it is important to note that as we are trying to access our
    public areas that are very special to us, that we are making
    some accommodations and making some things work here.
        I wanted to ask a question to you, probably Mr. Hepler and
    Mr. Shafroth, and this is the issue of the fees and a
    recognition that our states, I mentioned the impact on Alaska
    and Mr. Hepler you acknowledged that we are going to be down 90
    percent in terms of those revenues that we count on. I raised
    that in my opening statement as well. Senator Manchin had said
    that he had a roundtable where he was asking, okay, what is it
    that we need to do, what didn't we do in CARES and what might
    we need to be doing going forward? What sort of relief could
    Congress provide to address the concerns about the non-federal
    matching requirements in the short- and the medium-term?
        I will turn to you, Mr. Hepler, first and then we will go
    to you, Mr. Shafroth.
        Go ahead, Kelly.
        Mr. Hepler. Thank you, Madam Chair, I appreciate that.
    Yeah, I spent five years as Director of Traditional Sport
    Fishing. It's a real challenge right now Dave and Doug have to
    deal with. It's, at the very least, what we're asking for,
    Madam Chair and Senators, is that right now it's required, it's
    75/25. So you need to probably have $25 compared from $75
    coming from the federal side. We'd like to have that down to a
    90/10 and realizing this isn't asking for more money, this is
    all pass-through money and hope that's really the states. And
    so we're asking for a 90/10 relief for at least the next two
    years and that will give people, like Director Russ in Alaska,
    a chance to rebound a little bit because I'm definitely
    concerned about that division because I'm not quite sure how
    they're going to survive. I also agree with you just because we
    may get a vaccine in January does not mean we're going to see
    the same people who get in all those cruise ships coming back
    to Alaska to visiting some of the other states.
        So that right there would at least be a step in the right
    direction and we do have some other things we'd like to add but
    directly to your question, Madam Chair, that should help.
        The Chairman. Good, I appreciate that.
        Mr. Shafroth.
        Mr. Shafroth. Yes, thank you, Madam Chairman. It's an
    interesting dilemma because we've advocated strongly for the
    Centennial Challenge funds because frankly donors that we're
    seeking funding from like the fact that we're bringing federal
    money to the table and it inspires more contributions. And as I
    indicated in my testimony, the impact of COVID-19 has been
    uneven across the country. Some of the smaller groups have been
    dramatically impacted while some of the larger, more
    sophisticated groups, including ours, you know, we've kind of
    figured things out in a way. And so, I guess I would advocate
    for things like the Centennial Challenge funds, some additional
    flexibility for the Park Service to look on a case-by-case
    basis because some groups, the Golden Gate Parks Conservancy,
    they may well be able to easily meet the matching requirements
    where others are going to have a much more difficult time.
        I'm not that familiar with some of the heritage areas,
    Madam Chair, but I understand that they have some specific
    challenges that may also require some additional flexibility.
        The Chairman. I appreciate that.
        Okay, my time has expired. I am going to vote. Senator
    Manchin is going to be coming back, but he is not back yet so
    that means that we will go to you, Senator Heinrich, and then
    you, Senator Barrasso.
        Senator Heinrich [presiding]. Thank you, Chairman.
        I want to ask a couple of questions that will largely focus
    on education, and they are really for any of you. One of the
    things that has been a challenge is that we have a whole
    coterie of people who are coming and using our public lands
    that maybe did not do that a year ago. One of the challenges
    that ensues from that is that a large number of people are
    crowding into the front country in places where you have trails
    that may be narrow, and it is hard to socially distance and
    then we have millions of acres that are literally, practically,
    receiving no visitation at all. You know, when we were under
    the most stringent lockdown and we had, I'm trying to think, I
    think it was the blood moon, we had a really amazing full moon
    in New Mexico in the middle of that. I took my family out to a
    place on BLM land that I knew there would be literally no one
    else there. There was no one else at the parking lot, and we
    spent the entire evening out there and did not see another
    soul.
        How do we do a better job educating people about where are
    those places that they can go that are really quite
    spectacular, that may have a little bit less infrastructure but
    try to spread the public out more given the millions of acres
    of public lands that we do have?
        Ms. Turner. I'll start. Thank you for that question,
    Senator.
        You know, we've actually talked a lot. This is another good
    idea for a recreation package about streamlining the data
    collection within the federal agencies. They all have different
    methodology. They come out at different times. We really need
    to know who's on the public lands and why are they there? So,
    for example, if we knew what type of recreation they were
    participating in, we could better move people or recommend less
    crowded public lands. If we don't know whether they're there to
    hike or fish, we can't necessarily say there's a better place
    to go. So we really encourage this Committee specifically to
    look at streamlining the data collection and making that
    available. You know, if you Google a CVS right now you can tell
    when the hot spot is, when will it be crowded. It's probably
    going to be crowded around five o'clock. I'm going to go at
    noon.
        How can we show the hot spots in public lands, because I
    know there's a lot of users who don't want to be in a crowded
    place, especially now? And so, I think data could help move
    people around very well at this time, I think.
        Senator Heinrich. And we don't want them to be----
        Ms. Turner. And we don't want them to be. The Recreate
    Responsibly campaign that Will mentioned is a great way to
    educate the user community. It's really on the American public
    right now to do the right thing when they're getting outside,
    and I think more information would help that.
        And then the last thing is on our end and probably Will's
    end too, and that's brand marketing campaigns. I think
    businesses can help bring to light places that are less used--
    the people know less about in their marketing campaigns when
    people are at point of sale, talking about camping maybe in a
    less used area.
        Mr. Shafroth. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
        Yeah, the issue of--there's plenty of space but we have a
    tendency to cram a lot of people into small spaces. I think
    about half of the national park visitation last year of 327
    million visits happened on 25 or 30 parks. So it's both. We
    need to do a better job of dispersing visitation across the
    National Park System, and we're doing that in part through our
    Find Your Park campaign which was really to drive more
    visitation. And the joke among superintendents was ``yeah, find
    a park, but find somebody else's park because mine's got too
    many people in it right now'' and disperse them to some of the
    lesser known places. You know, there's literally almost 400 of
    those places that are lesser known and really compelling, many
    of them have to do with history and culture, but nonetheless.
    Your state is a great example of, you know, a lot of people
    probably cramming into a few of those places and the rest of
    the state is pretty vacant. The other part is even within parks
    we need to do a better job of dispersing visitation. So if you
    go to Yosemite and you would visit Bridalveil Falls, yeah,
    there's going to be a lot of people there, but if you go up to
    Mary's Lake up in Towalame Meadows, there'll be almost nobody
    there. So that is part of an education process that we need to
    help do.
        The other thing, and I think the Park Service is thinking
    about this too, which is, you know, timed entry. We need to be
    looking more at using technology in a more intelligent way to
    ensure that, you know, if you show up at a movie theater at
    seven o'clock on a Friday night, you don't necessarily expect
    to get a seat anymore, right, or a seat together with your
    family. We have to be thinking in the same way about our park
    visitation, and if you want to be at a prime spot, you may have
    to reserve some of those places.
        Senator Heinrich. I don't have a lot of time left, so
    rather than jump into another question I will make a comment
    and just, it is really more of a thank you to all of the user
    groups and industry groups who stepped in. You know, there was
    a moment there where even in my State of New Mexico that's so
    dependent on outdoor recreation and our public lands, where
    people were saying, I think, maybe we just need to shut these
    places down right now and we need to shut the roads and shut
    the access and people stepped up and within 24 hours there was
    literally a consistent communications campaign from elected
    leaders, from industry, from people like the new outdoor
    recreation specialist in our Governor's administration, all
    talking about, okay, we need these spaces right now, but here
    is how you access them responsibly. Here is how you are not a
    burden on someone locally, you are not a burden on other users
    and we are going to do this together responsibly. And in a
    culture where oftentimes for the last few decades we have
    really been about me, me, me, it was very heartening to see
    that and it was a great benefit for public health and also for
    people's mental health to continue to be able to access those
    places but be respectful in how they did it.
        Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Well, I am really
    appreciative of this hearing, and I just want to talk a little
    bit first about the impacts of the Coronavirus pandemic on the
    users of our public lands and our forests, our national parks
    because it is extremely important, certainly to my home State
    of Wyoming. Although the year to date visitation in state and
    national parks is down in Wyoming, we have seen a substantial
    increase in visitors over the last couple of months as we
    reopened smartly, safely, sensibly, responsibly. Despite the
    recent increase in visitors, tourism in gateway communities and
    concessionaires in Wyoming truly are hurting. And you have seen
    this all across the country. The ski resorts had to end their
    seasons early. Our parks had delayed openings.
        Ms. Turner, in your testimony you highlight waiving fees on
    public lands, extending contracts and permits as a
    recommendation to put recreation businesses back on the
    economic growth trajectory. And you know, as I understand the
    Forest Service has deferred various fees in light of the
    pandemic but they don't really have the statutory authority to
    forgive the fees. Could you talk a little bit how fee
    forgiveness and contract extension do provide relief for
    National Park/Forest Service concessionaires and others related
    to the recreational business?
        Ms. Turner. Sure, and thank you for the question, Senator.
        You know, we do appreciate the Forest Service deferral.
    That was a big deal when we needed it most. I think there might
    be another coming down. But fee waivers actually help
    businesses provide certainty. We don't know how long we're
    going to be in this. We don't know what the revenue is coming
    in. Chairman Murkowski mentioned 30 percent to 50 percent of
    some concessionaires. We know it's around that for some guides
    and outfitters as well. So this helps the guides and outfitters
    concessionaires to keep people employed and keep their fixed
    costs which haven't changed, if anything, they've gone up
    because of all of the new regulations they need to run their
    trips. So rather than sending money and fee money back to the
    government at an unknown cost, they're putting people to work
    which is important for communities like yours, rural
    communities in Wyoming.
        It also helps create strong, resilient partnerships. I
    heard from the Forest Service yesterday. They said if a number
    of these businesses go out of business it would be unimaginable
    the impact. These are really the people that are helping
    Americans experience public lands and waters when they get to
    the important parks.
        And then lastly, you know, for permit extensions, when
    folks bid on permits, they're given a certain amount of time to
    recoup that economic toll that they're putting in at the
    beginning. And so, not knowing how they're going to run a
    business, how they're going to open or when they're going to
    open can be a huge upfront cost and one that they can't carry
    much longer.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
        Mr. Lane, in your testimony you noted that economists
    estimate the COVID-related impacts to the cattle industry, beef
    industry, of more than $13 billion. As you mentioned, about 40
    percent of Western cattle herd and 50 percent of the nation's
    sheep herd spent at least part of their production cycle on
    public lands. We certainly know about it in Wyoming. This
    statistic isn't lost on any of us considering about half of the
    land in my home State of Wyoming, public land, 17 million
    acres, public land used for livestock grazing as this pandemic
    and resulting slowdown of meat processing has backed up the
    supply chain for cattle and sheep. Is there a need for the BLM
    and the Forest Service to allow producers to keep their animals
    on the range for a longer period of time where forage is
    available and have the agencies allow some of this flexibility
    that we think is important?
        Mr. Lane. So I think the key there is flexibility and being
    able to really look at what the conditions are in an area where
    we're talking about that need. You know, we are seeing that
    processing capacity rebound. We are making gains there, but
    producers are looking for where they can find additional forage
    to keep those cattle in a holding pattern and a lot of places
    in the West, especially if they had a rainy spring, might be
    pulling cattle off according to their terms of their grazing
    allotment at five percent utilization. And so we're talking
    about not just the fact that we're not using all the resources
    available, but perhaps really increasing fire risk as well. So,
    you know, if we can get down to a really local level of
    analyzing whether there's value in extending some of those
    terms, I think we can make some decisions that are best for the
    rangeland health and provide some flexibility to those
    permittees as well.
        Senator Barrasso. Great, thank you.
        Back to Ms. Turner, among the many lessons we learned, the
    pandemic has highlighted the need for increased communication
    between various federal agencies and with Wyoming being in both
    the Rocky Mountain and the Intermountain regions of the Forest
    Service, we are no stranger to the importance of this
    communication. We have a case in point, a woman from Wyoming
    contacted our office because the bathrooms in fish cleaning
    stations on the Wyoming side of Flaming Gorge were not open,
    but just across the state line in the same park in Utah, the
    same facilities were open. We were told that the high traffic
    facilities are closed because of COVID-19 and their policy.
    Have you heard of similar instances? Is this just unique where
    the pandemic has highlighted additional needs for effective
    communication in state, local and national levels?
        Ms. Turner. Yup, thank you for the question.
        We've heard that and we've been talking and dealing with
    that, I think, for decades just on more communication between
    the agencies both within the agencies and between the agencies.
    We appreciate that the Forest Service allowed for local
    decision-making to keep units open because that kept a lot of
    recreation open, but we certainly are having the same issues
    with businesses, oftentimes, as we've talked about guides and
    outfitters actually cross jurisdictional boundaries between
    forests or between agencies. So if one is open and the other
    isn't and if we look at closures happening again, that could be
    very difficult to run a business.
        Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you.
        Thank you, Madam Chairman, for holding this important
    hearing.
        The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Manchin.
        Senator Manchin. Thank you very much. All of this has been
    enlightening. I appreciate it very much, but I am going to ask
    one question to everybody.
        What is the one thing that Congress, the Senate, all of us
    could do that would help turn around and basically recover
    quicker? We will come out of this pandemic sooner or later, but
    what is the one thing we could do now to get us to that point
    when we come out of this that would help your industry? We have
    two of our witnesses on the video, if they would like to just
    give me an idea of what they would think we need to do--one
    important thing as you think about this.
        Mr. Hepler. Senator Manchin, this is Kelly Hepler and what
    I'd really love to see the Senate do is to invest in the state
    infrastructure the same way you invested so wisely in the
    federal infrastructure. It's going to immediately, I think,
    make an impact on recreational use. I think it will help the
    industry. It will certainly put boots on the ground, put money
    in small town USA. You know, we're talking, you know, hundreds
    of millions of dollars into what we need for investment.
    Particularly like in South Dakota we have miles of roads. We
    have 80 dams, you know, which are important for recreational
    and home use, and so if you invest in that infrastructure with
    that same zeal you did on the federal side, you'll see those
    same results, maybe even amplified more. So, Senator, that's
    what I wish you'd do.
        Senator Manchin. Anybody else?
        Mr. Kemper. Senator, this is Doug Kemper. I think the
    revenue stabilization assistance, especially to utilities and
    help with the smaller special districts that have just not been
    able to get any help from the CARES Act would be most
    beneficial.
        Mr. Lane. Senator, I appreciate that question.
        The biggest unused resource in the federal grazing arena is
    making grazing allotments that are subject to a never-ending
    NEPA backlog. There is a tremendous amount of forage available,
    not to mention unrealized resource benefit if we can manage
    those resources properly that are sitting on a shelf right now
    because we can't get the NEPA done or get over those NEPA
    hurdles to put those vacant allotments back into production.
        Mr. Shafroth. Thank you, Senator.
        I would say be generous in your appropriations to programs
    like the Centennial Challenge this year. When you were out of
    the room, we talked about having some initial flexibility there
    but those dollars will stimulate more activity from the 450
    organizations that are out supporting parks than almost
    anything that you can do.
        Ms. Turner. I would have said the Great American Outdoors
    Act, but I checked that off yesterday. So I appreciate that.
        [Laughter.]
        I think a recreation package with some of the provisions
    that I outlined so that we have better management and tools for
    our recreation businesses.
        Senator Manchin. I was in West Virginia last week, the last
    two weeks we were off, and then we had a virtual town hall,
    virtual listening session to hear all the people's concerns.
    The number one thing in my state from infrastructure is
    internet connectivity. Internet connectivity lets people stay
    longer and now basically they can work from anywhere, because
    of telework and that could continue on. It could be a new fad.
    I think the new normal is not going to be the old normal we
    knew. It has changed everything.
        But connectivity, if we, all of us, Democrats and
    Republicans, work for one thing and especially in our rural
    states. I don't need to tell my Chairman here, my friend, Lisa,
    that this is something we are challenged with. I have kids that
    can't do homework, but I have other people coming in to ride
    the Hatfield-McCoy Trail that will stay in the cabins. They
    stay an extra two weeks. I have people that would stay in some
    of our beautiful parks out in West Virginia that would stay all
    summer if they could and it is just something we need. So I
    would speak to that.
        One other thing I wanted to speak to, and this is directed
    to Mr. Shafroth. The question for the Park Service is, are
    there enough shovel-ready projects that we can do? I mean, we
    are going to have $1.3 billion a year.
        Mr. Shafroth. Right.
        Senator Manchin. A lot of it is for backlog maintenance
    too, but it is going to be for some new projects that have an
    opportunity to really enhance the quality of that park. Are
    there programs that they have been working on and, kind of,
    just been piecemealing it for lack of funds?
        Mr. Shafroth. Thank you, Senator, and it probably wouldn't
    be appropriate for me to answer for the Park Service because
    that's a very complicated, multiple-answer question.
        Senator Manchin. Sure, I understand that, yes.
        Mr. Shafroth. But that said, I am aware, having spent a lot
    of time with the Park Service leadership on this point, is that
    there are a number of projects that are----
        Senator Manchin. As a foundation you are all looking. You
    are watching things all the time anyway.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Shafroth. I know that they have their important
    projects like the Grand Canyon water line that are ready to go,
    that are wanting for funding otherwise and I gather that
    they've got a number of projects, especially for the first year
    or so. I don't think they necessarily wanted to have five
    years' worth of projects ready to go until the bill passed. So
    I think, you know, given it's going to take a little while for
    the money to actually become available----
        Senator Manchin. Yes.
        Mr. Shafroth. ----that they are working on that.
        Senator Manchin. Well, let me tell you what I would be
    looking for and I think all of us would like to have some
    direction from--projects that have started that have been very
    slow-paced because of a lack of funding. They just couldn't,
    you know, they continue at a snail's pace.
        Mr. Shafroth. Right.
        Senator Manchin. Those projects could come to completion
    fairly quick because they are on the move. They are moving
    through the process. That is what we really need to know. We
    need to get an accounting of that. Maybe we can request that,
    Madam Chairman, from the Parks to find out what projects have
    been in place and basically have been slowed down because of
    lack of funding. Those are the ones we could pick up and
    finish.
        Thank you all very much for being here.
        The Chairman. Senator Manchin, we can work with you on
    that, that Parks list, from the appropriations perspective as
    well. But I do have an offer for you. I have got a project for
    you to look at, at Denali National Park. I have pictures that I
    will tease this up, but yes, we have some work to do within our
    Parks and that is, again, why we are looking forward to the
    passage of the Great American Outdoors Act. Thank you for your
    leadership on that and for yours, Senator Daines.
    Congratulations as well.
        Senator Daines. Well, thank you, Chair Murkowski. It was a
    great vote last night in the United States House, and Senator
    Manchin, it was north of 300 on the positives there. It was a
    great, strong, bipartisan vote.
        Senator Manchin. 310.
        Senator Daines. 310, yes, that is great.
        Well, thank you for testifying today on the pandemic's
    impact on the users of public land. This hearing is timely as
    just last night the U.S. House passed the Great American
    Outdoors Act which will greatly benefit the users of our public
    lands. It is also timely as Congressional leadership and the
    Administration are now busy negotiating the scope of the next
    COVID package. And for perspective, the outdoor recreation
    industry which supports over 70,000 direct jobs in Montana has
    been devastated by this pandemic which coincides with what is
    typically our peak season.
        Outfitted tourism is down 60 percent and will continue to
    decline as cancellations roll in during prime summer and fall
    seasons. In fact, over a two-day period there is a hunting
    outfitter out of Big Timber. I have spent a lot of days
    fishing, hunting north of Big Timber as a kid growing up in
    Montana. They experienced a $400,000 loss due to fall
    cancellations. There is another Montana outfitter who was
    forced to close their snowmobile business, and they face a 70
    percent decline in their hunting business. That is why I
    introduced the Trail Stewardship for Economic Recovery Act
    which provides employment opportunities for struggling
    outfitters and guides through trail project contracts in our
    forests.
        Ms. Turner, how does the Trail Stewardship for Economic
    Recovery Act benefit both small businesses, public land and
    public access and how are outfitters and guides uniquely
    qualified to do this type of work?
        Ms. Turner. Thank you for the bill, Senator, and the
    question.
        As we've talked about a little bit here today, costs are
    up, trips are down and many guides and outfitters have lost a
    huge percentage of the time already being closed for the early
    months. What some people don't understand is many of these
    small businesses are the bedrock of rural communities and
    they've been shut for eight months and they have to recoup the,
    you know, entire year's revenue from just a short season that's
    already been shortened. So what this bill does is it helps keep
    FTEs on. It helps them bring their employees back to do
    important maintenance work on public lands and waters. It
    develops important partnerships with the federal agencies to do
    the stewardship work and one of the biggest things is it will
    keep these small businesses around for another season,
    hopefully many more seasons, so that they can really connect
    more Americans to this great outdoor experience. What they
    provide are safe and memorable experiences on our public lands
    and waters for the user community.
        If you've been on a river trip, which I know you have, we
    just talked--on the Yellowstone, I think, fishing last week--
    you know there's nobody that knows a river better than a river
    guide. So I have full confidence that the guides and outfitters
    that know these lands, that have been working and running trips
    in these lands would be wonderful stewards for these projects
    and where they don't have expertise there's the core network,
    there's trail builders. There's so many other groups that they
    can rely on for some of that expertise.
        Senator Daines. Thank you.
        And you know, the double whammy here is they are refunding
    dollars of pre-booking so they had the cash sitting in their
    bank accounts and now they are refunding those dollars at the
    same time cancellations going forward are rolling in as well.
    So it is just, it is absolutely the worst storm possible which,
    as you know, is a relatively short season, oftentimes, in
    Montana for those who focus more on the summer months.
        As I mentioned in my opening statement, the leadership is
    currently negotiating the scope of the next COVID package. You
    stated pretty clearly, Ms. Turner, but I am going to say it and
    give you a chance to state it once more, why is it absolutely
    imperative that outfitters and guides are not left out of this
    package?
        Ms. Turner. One thing I haven't mentioned is actually
    outfitters and guides were left out of PPP. PPP did not work
    for seasonal businesses. So when they needed it most, when they
    were starting to turn up and ramp on for their season, April-
    May, they couldn't get PPP based on the allotments and how they
    had to measure the revenue. That has been changed by Treasury
    but many of them have missed the window or have already applied
    for a much lower PPP. So really what this is, is a stimulus
    that many other businesses didn't get. They're going to get
    this now through that bill.
        Senator Daines. Thank you. That was very clear.
        The pandemic has coincided with the season typically
    dedicated to wildfire prevention efforts and has now bled into
    wildfire season. The need for socially-distanced vegetation
    management and wildfire prevention sheds light on the
    effectiveness and utility of targeted public land grazing to
    reduce wildfire risk.
        Mr. Lane, in your written testimony you spoke at length
    about the effectiveness of targeted grazing to reduce wildfire
    risks. What do you need from the agencies and from Congress to
    fully utilize and realize the benefits of targeted grazing to
    perform vegetation management?
        Mr. Lane. We need the exact same kind of flexibility we
    were just talking about with Senator Barrasso a minute ago. We
    need the agencies to recognize when there is more forage
    available, they need to be flexible to allow those producers to
    stay out longer to go into those areas where we need to reduce
    fuel loads across a large area in the same way that they
    dynamically react and reduce our access to those areas when
    there is not enough forage available. We need that to move both
    directions, not just for land health but to ensure that we are
    managing those fuel loads in a comprehensive way. We've learned
    fuel breaks work where they work, but they don't work
    everywhere and we need that larger scale lowering of those fuel
    loads. And that's something that the grazing, sort of uniquely,
    is positioned to do.
        Senator Daines. Thank you. I am going to squeeze in one
    more question, Mr. Shafroth.
        You know the National Parks and the gateway communities
    have suffered a major blow due to COVID-19 and, to add insult
    to injury, we just had a horrible fire in downtown Gardiner,
    Montana. We lost several businesses to a fire that was
    accidental. It happened during the afternoon and was yet
    another blow. How can Congress, the National Park Service and
    groups like yours work together to bolster our parks and the
    good paying jobs that go along with them?
        Mr. Shafroth. Well, I think it's in, sort of, Senator,
    thank you for the question, every place is a little different,
    frankly. I mean, I think I was aware of the fire in Gardiner
    and the tragedy that ensued, but I think we have to work
    together to find ways to create a seamless experience in a lot
    of ways for people to come. So if you're going to drive 500
    miles to go to your park, you need to know that you can get
    into the park, that there are outfitters and other
    concessionaires that can help you provide an experience, that
    there's educational opportunities for your kids. And so, I
    think that requires a new level of cooperation and
    collaboration between and among all the different entities,
    public and private and non-profit in order to make that happen.
        Senator Daines. Alright, thank you.
        Thank you, Chairman Murkowski.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Daines.
        Senator King is with us virtually. Senator King.
        Senator King. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank you
    especially for having this important hearing. I think this is a
    great topic for us to be discussing. I don't have much in the
    way of specific questions, but first I want to say, I don't
    think we celebrate enough when we have a success. We always
    focus on the next problem coming down the street. And
    yesterday's passage of the Great American Outdoors Act, I
    think, is a really significant achievement for this Congress.
    It is one that, to say it has been a long time coming, is an
    understatement and it is going to really make a difference for
    generations of Americans. Generations of Americans who won't
    know any of us who passed it, but they will see the handiwork
    that we brought through some hard work and cooperation and
    bipartisanship, all the things that our citizens hope we do.
        Again, I don't really have a question. I do want to
    associate myself with the comments from Senator Manchin about
    broadband. We have learned a lot of lessons from the pandemic.
    We knew before the pandemic that broadband was an issue in
    rural areas, but since the onset of the pandemic we have
    realized it is not just an issue, it is a necessity. It is
    something that really has to be addressed in a comprehensive
    way just as Franklin D. Roosevelt addressed the rural
    electrification question in the '30s. It is exactly similar. It
    is absolutely critical to modern life. I just want to thank all
    of our witnesses for the work that they are doing and have
    done. I think it is prudent to try to get some provisions into
    the new COVID bill that is being discussed to deal with some of
    the specialized, particularly of seasonal businesses that have
    been particularly hard hit this summer. I know that is true in
    Maine as well as across the country.
        So thank you for the hearing. I have enjoyed listening to
    the testimony, and we will look forward to working with you and
    Ranking Member Manchin and the rest of the members of the
    Committee to try to effectuate some of the ideas we have heard
    today. Thank you again, Madam Chair.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator King.
        Let's next turn to Senator Hirono.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        I just wanted to make a comment regarding Jess Turner's
    comments/testimony. In your testimony you note the importance
    of expanding the core opportunities to employ young Americans
    and veterans to work on public lands as we recover from the
    pandemic. I just wanted to comment that when the Senate
    considered the Great American Outdoors Act, I introduced an
    amendment to clarify that deferred maintenance projects using
    public-private partnerships include organizations with
    qualified youth and conservation corps. While that amendment
    did not get adopted, I will be following up with DOI and USDA
    to make sure that these organizations are not overlooked for
    these projects, because I agree with you that these job
    opportunities are going to be critical to provide for our
    public lands while getting Americans back to work. I have met
    with a number of American Corps young people, and they are very
    eager to be of help. So thank you, Ms. Turner.
        For Mr. Shafroth, you note in your testimony that the
    National Park Foundation hosted webinars to their partners on
    navigating the PPP loan process. Do you have a sense of how
    many representative park partners were able to obtain PPP
    loans?
        Mr. Shafroth. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
        I don't have a number, but I know many of them did. We
    actually, you know, we hosted a webinar and a national law
    firm, Arnold and Porter, offered to provide pro bono assistance
    to any of the friends' groups that wanted help in their
    navigation of that process. But why don't I plan to follow up
    with the Committee to give you some specific information about
    which organizations ultimately applied?
        And Senator, I'll also say that we agree with you on the
    conservation corps issue. We're very actively involved in
    supporting the deployment of conservation corps throughout the
    National Park System. And so we too will work with you to find
    ways to ensure that the funds from Great American Outdoors Act
    and other places can be made available to the use of corps to
    execute those projects.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you. I think if we can all come
    together on supporting the kind of work by the corps then I
    think we can get it done.
        So again, from you, Mr. Shafroth. With regard to the
    patchwork of various state and local mandates on public health
    and safety as it relates to the pandemic, I want to briefly
    touch on reopening. Have you heard any concerns from partners
    about their ability to ensure employee safety, such as
    requiring the use of masks as parks reopen, and do you feel
    that the protections put in place for the National Park Service
    for reopening are sufficient?
        Mr. Shafroth. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
        You know, one of the things that we're trying to do with
    our promotion of the Recreate Responsibly campaign is to ensure
    that all visitors have a strong understanding of the need to in
    a way to behave differently than we have before. I think
    Senator Heinrich was the one that said it earlier before you
    were on the phone, I think, that he described how people have
    really stepped in to a moment really to be more sensitive and
    aware of others. I don't know, my understanding, Senator, is
    that the Park Service decisions about social distancing and
    wearing a mask is something that is on a park-by-park basis. So
    it's difficult to say uniformly whether or not every park is,
    you know, doing things at a point where they could or should
    be. I do know that many of the local partner, friends'
    organizations are adhering to the local guidance from the
    governors and health offices.
        So again, if we can collect some additional information,
    we're happy to get that for you.
        Senator Hirono. Don't you think that we should have, kind
    of, a standard set of requirements for a park reopening other
    than the patchwork that we are experiencing?
        Mr. Shafroth. Well, that's certainly an option. One of the
    things that you may not know about us is we don't really get
    into the policies of the Park Service and telling them what to
    do and how to do it. We're there to support them to help them
    execute their goals and their projects and programs, but again,
    if there's something we can do to gather some more information
    for you to help you better understand what's going on, we're
    happy to do that.
        Senator Hirono. Again for Mr. Shafroth. Does the Foundation
    have any plans or strategies to use funds to help smooth out
    the differences of where some parks are experiencing 60 percent
    drop and then there are others--it is a whole range of changes
    that have happened. So do you have any plans to use funds to
    help smooth out the differences between parks across the
    country?
        Mr. Shafroth. Senator, thank you for the question.
        We discussed that a little bit with Senator Heinrich
    earlier, but yes, I think one of the big challenges we have
    right now is in dispersing visitation both within parks that
    have high visitation as well as across the National Park
    System. We have 419 national park units, more than half of that
    is at about 30% of our parks. And so, we must do better using,
    through the use of technology, I think. Imagine a Waze app that
    you could have in a, when you go into a park to understand the
    density of visitors in certain parts of the park versus other
    parts of the park. Would it help inform where you went and what
    time of day you went, et cetera?
        Similarly, you know, we need to--we have something called
    our Lesser Known Parks program which helps visitors, potential
    visitors to parks, understand some of the lesser known places.
    Everybody knows about Yosemite and Yellowstone, Grand Teton,
    Denali and Acadia, et cetera, but very few people know at this
    point even about White Sands National Park and the literally
    hundreds of historical and cultural sites around the Park
    System. So we're very actively involved in drawing more
    attention to those places and hopefully drawing more visitors
    to them.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you very much. Thank you, and thanks
    to the Foundation for all that you do.
        Mr. Shafroth. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hirono. I appreciate what
    you have just added there at the end, Mr. Shafroth. I think
    that is something that we all get focused on our favorite parks
    or the ones that, perhaps, are most well known, but we have
    some extraordinary treasures in other parts of the country--
    that a little bit of encouragement to go to the lesser known
    parks, I think, is good.
        Mr. Shafroth. Wrangell-St. Elias is a good one for
    instance.
        The Chairman. It is one of the best, isn't it? In fact, I
    would hope to get out there in August.
        Let's go to Senator Hoeven from the great State of North
    Dakota.
        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Madam Chairman, I appreciate it
    very much and speaking of, we all tend to focus on our favorite
    parks. I am going to do that right off the bat and start with
    Mr. Shafroth and bring up the Theodore Roosevelt National Park
    in North Dakota which is truly wonderful and beautiful. And you
    know, obviously with the passage of the Great American Outdoors
    Act now by the House and waiting for the President's signature,
    a very important part of that was the Restore Our Parks Act
    which I co-sponsored along with others and that provides a lot
    of funding for addressing deferred maintenance in our parks.
        Can you talk to me a little bit about your thoughts on
    addressing deferred maintenance in the Theodore Roosevelt
    National Park, particularly the scenic loop in the South Unit?
    I would appreciate your thoughts and your comments.
        Mr. Shafroth. Sure, thank you, Senator Hoeven, and thanks
    again for your support for the Great American Outdoors Act and
    Restore Our Parks.
        Yeah, and I apologize, I have the numbers memorized for
    many parks, but I can't remember whether it's $34 or $43
    million in deferred maintenance work that needs to be done at
    Teddy Roosevelt National Park, including filling the sinkhole
    in that road you described and as well as many other aspects,
    the visitor center, the maintenance shed, the Peaceful Valley.
    There's lots of work that continues, that needs to be done
    there. Those are all very important things. I don't think--we
    talked a bit about this earlier, about the process by which the
    Park Service and Congress will prioritize the projects that get
    done, but I think the challenge that exists in the park in
    North Dakota, Senator, as well as many others is how do we
    combine, you know, the private resources with the Great
    American Outdoors Act and maybe other federal resources to both
    address the deferred maintenance backlog as well as the
    modernization of these places.
        And I think you understand, having been to the visitor
    center in Teddy Roosevelt National Park that it's fine if we
    repair the roof and fix the windows, things like that, and the
    HVAC, but we really want to have a different kind of
    experience, especially with the future development of the
    Theodore Roosevelt, President Theodore Roosevelt Presidential
    Library Foundation. And so, we need to, kind of, try to lift
    up, I think, all of those assets at the same time.
        Senator Hoeven. Talk a little bit as well about your
    support for the library project.
        Mr. Shafroth. Sure. The Foundation has been working very
    closely with the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library
    Foundation to try to work in tandem with them and the Park
    Service to create a more complete experience to the visitor who
    comes to Medora, to the park, to the area, to learn about the
    life and legacy of Theodore Roosevelt. And so, we're, you know,
    actually right now, they're in the process of identifying an
    architect to create, to look at ways in which we can create
    distributed experiences for visitors to that part of the, of
    your state. And you know, whether it be the Medora show or you
    know, the experiences that will happen in a building that the
    Library Foundation will have and as well as the many
    experiences that one could have in the Park, whether it be
    potentially mountain biking from the North Unit to the South
    Unit to having wilderness experiences and other kinds of
    recreational amenities. That's going to create, you know, that
    integrated, collaborative experience that I think we can create
    there is very exciting.
        Senator Hoeven. I would like to go to Mr. Lane, if I could,
    for just a minute.
        In your opinion, on the public lands, what can Congress do
    to help our cattlemen? It is such a hard time out there for our
    ranchers and our cattlemen and, of course, they graze on the
    national grasslands. What, in your opinion, could we do in
    Congress to help improve how we do that on our public lands and
    how we can help our ranchers, our cattlemen?
        Mr. Lane. I think--I appreciate the question. I think first
    and foremost looking at that regulatory structure that
    cattlemen deal with now when they're working with federal
    grazing permits is the biggest area where Congress can help,
    making sure to communicate to the agencies what your
    expectation is of the implementation of the myriad laws that
    they have to navigate in order to implement those permits. I
    think there's a lot of fear in federal lands management as it
    relates to grazing at this point. I think because of the
    litigation that impacts almost every decision made by either
    the Forest Service or the BLM, more than I can list in a
    hearing like this. Rather than making the decision that's best
    for the resource, they make the decision that's most likely to
    avoid them spending the next ten years in court with activist
    litigants. So I think wherever you can look for opportunities
    to bolster their decision-making and give them a firm base
    within which to make the best decision for the resource, you're
    empowering them to make better decisions for our producers
    across the country.
        Senator Hoeven. Okay, my time is up here, but if you have
    other specific ideas that you think would help, I would really
    appreciate if you would forward them to my office.
        Thanks so much, and thank you, Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hoeven.
        Let's turn to Senator Cortez Masto.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Chairwoman.
        Let me also echo Senator Hoeven's response and question to
    Mr. Lane. It is great to see you here. I support targeted
    grazing. I think you do need the flexibility to reduce fuel
    loads. Any other ideas you have, please send those to my office
    as well.
        I appreciate you participating and every one else for being
    here as part of this important panel.
        Mr. Kemper, I would like to start with you. In your written
    testimony you mentioned that there is a scarcity of water
    treatment officers and that this was a concern prior to the
    pandemic, but specifically your testimony references that
    because water is undervalued, we have a hard time recruiting
    people to work in the industry. So is there a strong role for
    the Federal Government to play in helping to facilitate that
    workforce development as it relates to water and water
    infrastructure?
        Mr. Kemper. Thank you for your question, Senator.
        Yes, I do think there is, especially helping out with
    education and there's a role for training operators, water and
    wastewater operators. So I do think that in providing just
    cross training of water and wastewater operators would be
    really a benefit and that could come from the Federal
    Government and also, just assistance should we actually run
    short of operators to be able to provide help in that regard.
    Yes, it would be very beneficial.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Yes, the workforce--there is no
    doubt, it is a key and it is a constant we keep hearing over
    and over again.
        Mr. Hepler, let me ask you this. In your testimony you
    state that social distancing requirements have complicated
    state and federal Aquatic Invasive Species (AIS) management and
    control efforts across the country. If left unchecked, AIS will
    spread within a water body and through recreational boating and
    other water sports activities and be inadvertently spread to
    other water bodies. Obviously we all have concerns about that.
    Can you further elaborate on the preventative measures that are
    being put in place by wildlife agencies at boat inspection
    points and your concerns there.
        Mr. Hepler. Thank you, Senator.
        Yeah, this is, this actually hits home to South Dakota very
    well. We had zebra mussels show up in a top end of a drainage
    that borders with North Dakota/South Dakota and this drainage
    comes out to a lot of very important lakes for recreational
    use, home use and also one of our major hatcheries. And you
    know, when this, when COVID first hit, you know, we wanted to
    have teams out there checking boats, checking waters and
    because of our concern about getting social distancing, we just
    couldn't, we weren't in a place to be able to do that until we
    worked through and came to those safe measures.
        And so, we look at that and we can do those on the ground,
    but also the cooperation between states, you know, with Senator
    Barrasso and Wyoming and how we interact with how they do
    business and their lakes are a little bit different than ours.
    How we interact with Minnesota, these border states and that
    happens across the country, that communication is key. Every
    state is driven a little bit differently than other states by,
    you know, how the Governor, how they view the importance of
    invasive species or not. Governor Noem in the State of South
    Dakota last year sponsored some legislation to really raise the
    awareness. It brought into the cabinet discussion, just not us
    from Fish and Game, but also the Agriculture Department because
    that's really where the greatest concern is for a lot of these
    invasive species and get--in going through your dams.
        So I think there's been a lot of work, but I mean, what's
    frustrating with this is that for the most part all can you do
    is slow the spread and I'd love to be able to say there's some
    magical way, a lot of ways we can stop these things,
    unfortunately there's not. And I don't know how kind our
    children are going to feel when they come to look at some of
    these things, but we're trying and we are trying to slow that
    spread, but it's a heck of a deal. And I certainly appreciate
    the work of those federal agencies getting some of that funding
    and there's some bills out there, talk some more about that.
    But you know, we're open to other ideas of communication, but
    you know, we have to make a difference. We have to at least
    give this a shot.
        Senator, I hope that answered your question.
        Senator Cortez Masto. It does, thank you.
        And then, coming from Nevada we are seeing more wildfires,
    in general. I mean, just talking with all of you because I
    think as I am hearing more people are out recreating, maybe,
    for the first time, it is important that we have an education
    campaign for people to understand the responsibility as well.
        Any other ideas that any of you have because I do have
    concerns about wildfires, rangeland fires, fires in our parks.
    We are seeing more of that, unfortunately caused by humans. And
    so, any other thoughts on what we need to know at a federal
    level that we have not talked about already in this panel
    discussion which has been fantastic? So thank you, and I will
    just open it up to the panel.
        Mr. Lane. Yeah, Senator, I think as the grazing community
    really sees a lot of this firsthand as they're working their
    ranches and they see those recreation enthusiasts come out onto
    their grazing allotments. I think education, not just about,
    kind of, how those resources are being used, but where they are
    is a critical part of that. Mixed surface management
    responsibility for those of us that work in these environments
    can still be very confusing. Am I on Forest Service land? Am I
    on BLM land? Am I on private land? And what are the changes I
    need to make in how I'm recreating based on which of those I
    might be on, or state land for that matter.
        I think that there's far too little interpretation and
    information available out there for visitors to public lands
    that's easily accessible. If they can grab a map when they're
    heading out into the back country, if they can have some more
    information on gosh, when I'm crossing over a cattle guard I
    need to make sure that I leave a gate the way I found it
    because there's either some animals that need to kept in or
    kept out of a certain area or there's a sensitive species
    that's being managed very carefully in this area or that. I
    think most of that is completely missed and it's not their
    fault, it's just not something they're aware of if they're not
    having to deal with it on a day in, day out basis. So I think
    that education component needs to be far more comprehensive and
    far more readily accessible to those users.
        Mr. Kemper. Senator, certainly doing everything we can.
    Colorado has a forest and water alliance, California has a
    similar group, that are really working to try to increase the
    pace and scale of work on resilient forests, things like the
    Collaborative Forest Landscape Restoration Program, the Water
    Source Protection Program. But as it was referenced in earlier
    testimony, I think that I, you know, we've had 9,000, 9,000
    boat decontaminations so far this year that is removing aquatic
    nuisance species from boats and that education is really
    important. Those are 9,000 opportunities.
        The other problem that we have is that people are not
    necessarily knowing what's a public land and what's not and
    access to water infrastructure and there's a story in my
    testimony about the difficulties that when we have Ag
    infrastructure that is on public lands that people are leaving
    gates open, not knowing where they are supposed to be and not.
    So there's concern there.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I know I have gone over my
    time. Thank you very much.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cortez Masto.
        I think we have had a good range of questions here this
    morning, and I appreciate the range from colleagues here and
    the responses from our panel. I just have a couple more here
    before we wrap up.
        I mentioned I really had a great two weeks when I was back
    home, but don't let me digress, then I will start showing you
    my pictures. But one of the things that I saw when I was in
    Denali National Park, as folks are aware, you have one very
    long, very narrow and very scenic road deep into the park and
    during the season you are able to gain access by way of a bus
    and it is not a fancy bus, it is a bus. As a result of the
    limitations in the park and the social distancing requirements,
    we have seen fewer people in those buses, fewer buses, but I
    commend the leadership there at Denali in recognizing that they
    needed to figure out a little bit of flexibility if we are
    going to get people into the park. How do we do this and do it
    safely?
        I ran into two commercial operators who have temporary
    commercial use authorizations and they guide very small
    groups--when I say small, two cars. So this is a pretty limited
    situation. One was actually guided by a fellow who was driving
    a Tesla which is a feat in itself over those gravel roads. Nice
    car, but that is the first electric car to be piloting into the
    park. The other group was one pilot car, a Jeep and two other
    Jeeps again. So very limited, very small, but it gives a level
    of flexibility and it gives some opportunities with temporary
    permits. I was pleased to see that in Denali.
        Does anybody have any suggestions as to ways that either
    through Interior or Forest Service we can provide greater
    flexibility to those who do have permits in recognizing that we
    are all looking to accommodate in different ways and it might
    look different in other areas? Maybe, Ms. Turner, you have some
    examples that you have heard of? I am curious to know if anyone
    has any suggestions with regards to that?
        Ms. Turner.
        Ms. Turner. Thank you for that, and I've actually been on
    that Denali helicopter ride and landed on a glacier so I know
    exactly what that experience is like and it's really
    unfortunate that less people are having that experience.
        You know, I think the fee waivers right now are so top of
    mind because they're so necessary to just keep these folks in
    business. But beyond that, contract extensions and permit
    extensions are incredibly important. The agencies aren't going
    to be processing new permits, so it's really important that
    businesses have some certainty that maybe they'll have a year
    or two more on their contract to figure something out, like you
    saw in Denali. And then, I think, the SOAR Act has a lot of
    flexibilities in it that would provide help and support for
    guides and outfitters, concessionaires, permittees for a while
    beyond this pandemic.
        The Chairman. Thanks, I appreciate that.
        We have talked about the increase in visitation whether it
    is on our national parks or our state parks or our public
    lands, and I think that that is good as families have gotten
    outdoors and obviously the effort that the President will
    hopefully soon sign into law, the Great American Outdoors Act,
    again is going to encourage that we are doing more to just
    better take care of our parks and our public areas.
        Any suggestions to us on what Congress and our federal land
    managers can do to ensure that we sustain this momentum by
    local tourism that we have seen this summer? Again, I mention
    things slow down in Alaska in the winter time. It is different,
    again, in places that host ski areas, but I think we recognize
    the value that these tourist dollars bring to many of our
    communities. Not only the value, but just the enhancement to
    our lives when we are able to get out and recreate like this.
    We don't want to have another pandemic situation next summer.
    We don't want that to be the thing that keeps us continuing to
    visit our public lands. Any suggestions in terms of how we
    continue with the efforts that will bring increased
    visitorship?
        Mr. Shafroth. Madam Chairman, a thought that I have is, you
    know, we are engaged in a pretty active campaign right now to
    welcome people back to the parks. We have two different, sort
    of, ads out there, alright--one called ``Wonder Calls,''
    another one related to the appreciation of our Park Service
    employees and the hard work they do. And I think those messages
    kind of continue to remind people that these places are
    amazing. They're part of our legacy, our history. I'll also say
    combined with some messages around how to recreate responsibly
    so--people are, you know, fearful at some level and we need to
    let them know that there's a way that we can do this that's
    safe to allow you to get back in the park and do what you want
    to do. So I kind of feel like there's dual messages we need to
    continue to push out there to remind people how great they are
    and just to make sure they understand that it's a little bit of
    a different game.
        Ms. Turner. And I would just add the health connection. I
    think we're seeing the outdoors as really a solution, possibly,
    or helpful in the pandemic. People need Vitamin D. They need
    exercise. They need to be experiencing the outdoors. I think
    connecting parks and our public lands really to health, keeping
    people healthy and communities healthy is maybe a new message.
    We've known this all along, but the American public seems to
    have really taken that to heart lately. And if we could
    continue to connect that, I think we can create lifestyles
    where people weave outdoor activity and these parks and public
    lands into their daily habits.
        The Chairman. Mr. Lane.
        Mr. Lane. I think we also need to make sure that we're
    paying attention to the health of the resource as we see these
    balances change of people using these landscapes, particularly
    where we see municipalities meeting some of these managed
    federal environments. Some of the prescribed burns that
    otherwise would have helped keep those resources healthy have
    been canceled or delayed due to COVID-19, looking for some
    opportunities to use tools like grazing as a substitute to
    ensure that where we couldn't get our first choice done to
    manage some of those fuel loads, that we can put some other
    tools in place to ensure that the work still gets done and that
    we still have those active management regimes in place is
    important as we move through this, sort of, fluid time in
    managing these lands.
        The Chairman. Mr. Hepler.
        Mr. Hepler. Madam Chair, I'd also add that, you know,
    besides the health piece which we absolutely agree with, we're
    going to work that at a national level, is that this is an
    opportunity to get people in the past where we maybe haven't
    been in the indoor parks whether they're federal or state. And
    so, whether they're--so we want people of color to be able to
    come in these parks and do it safely. There's a whole diversity
    there and if we want to remain relevant as state agencies and
    as federal agencies, you know, we need to make sure the whole
    broad spectrum that represents this great country of ours, is
    welcoming to our public areas. And there's a certain amount of
    responsibility that comes with that.
        I think this is one golden opportunity. One good thing that
    can come out of this COVID-19 crisis we're in is bringing those
    people into the fold and let them now it's good to get outside
    and whether that's outside in the city park in a big city, you
    know, or coming to one of our wonderful state parks. By the
    way, we're open for business in South Dakota. We'd love to have
    you come visit. Come to South Dakota. But either way, it's the
    same message. We want to be able to do it safely, feel
    comfortable and enjoy themselves.
        The Chairman. Right.
        Mr. Kemper, do you want to add a final word there?
        Mr. Kemper. The other thing that is not quite relevant to
    that but the concern out there about the loss of revenue from
    severance tax is really having a huge impact and there's a lot
    of collaborative efforts that go on that some of that money
    gets directed toward both for aging infrastructure for water
    and it's something I think would be helpful for the Committee
    to keep monitoring on as that loss of production and the
    severance tax impacts because it does impact the investments in
    the forest landscape resiliency program.
        The Chairman. Well, I appreciate you adding that. I think
    we had a good discussion about some of the impact of the
    deferred maintenance issues on our public lands, and we
    recognize that.
        A couple of you have mentioned the need to make sure that
    we are being responsible out there, and I had mentioned that
    several of the experiences that I had were very positive where
    people are accepting certain protocols as they are out enjoying
    our parks. I am also hearing that as we are encouraging more of
    the local people around our parks to use our parks during this
    time of COVID, for oftentimes what happens is those that are
    closest to the parks are so busy serving the people who are
    coming from other areas that they don't even get into these
    very special places.
        At a time like this where perhaps your small business is
    not operating or it is at greatly reduced volumes, you actually
    have time to go out and experience it yourself. I have heard in
    my state some Alaskans saying, ``I love this area, but I felt
    like I was not welcomed in my park.'' That is hard to hear, and
    that is not the message that we want, whether it is from our
    parks or from our Forest Service or from those who are managing
    our public lands. These are America's areas. These are all of
    our ours. This is not something special just built for Park
    Service employees or for Forest Service employees to enjoy the
    benefit.
        I think it is important that we respect the fact that we
    welcome all Americans to our parks and whether it is the locals
    or whether it is families who have never had that opportunity.
    We mentioned people of color and doing more to make them feel
    welcome in our parks. This is a job and a responsibility that
    we all have.
        So we will be working toward that, but thank you for your
    input this morning. I think it has been very helpful, and as we
    move forward with this next round of COVID relief, know that
    many on this Committee are looking out for those who have been
    impacted in ways and perhaps not seen that level of support
    that will be necessary to carry them through.
        With that, I thank you again and the Committee stands
    adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 12:11 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.]

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