[Senate Hearing 116-371]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 116-371
WILDFIRE MANAGEMENT IN THE MIDST OF THE
COVID-19 PANDEMIC
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
JUNE 9, 2020
__________
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
40-917 WASHINGTON : 2021
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COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho RON WYDEN, Oregon
MIKE LEE, Utah MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
STEVE DAINES, Montana BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
CORY GARDNER, Colorado MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
MARTHA McSALLY, Arizona ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
Brian Hughes, Staff Director
Lucy Murfitt, Chief Counsel
Nick Matiella, Senior Professional Staff Member
Renae Black, Democratic Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
Bryan Petit, Democratic Senior Professional Staff Member
Darla Ripchensky, Chief Clerk
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Alaska.... 1
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
West Virginia.................................................. 2
Cantwell, Hon. Maria, a U.S. Senator from Washington............. 4
WITNESSES
Phipps, John, Deputy Chief for State and Private Forestry, USDA
Forest Service................................................. 5
Kaster, Amanda, Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary, Land and
Minerals Management, U.S. Department of the Interior........... 12
McDonald, Norm, Alaska Type I Team Incident Commander and Chief
of Fire and Aviation, Alaska Division of Forestry.............. 19
Geissler, George, Washington State Forester, on behalf of the
National Association of State Foresters........................ 27
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Cantwell, Hon. Maria:
Witness Introduction......................................... 4
Chart entitled ``Significant Wildland Fire Potential
Outlook--August 2020'' produced by Predictive Services,
National Interagency Fire Center, issued May 1, 2020....... 63
Chart entitled ``Significant Wildland Fire Potential
Outlook--August 2015'' produced by Predictive Services,
National Interagency Fire Center, issued August 1, 2015.... 65
(The) Edison Electric Institute:
Statement for the Record..................................... 115
Firefighters United for Safety, Ethics & Ecology:
Letter for the Record........................................ 119
Geissler, George:
Opening Statement............................................ 27
Written Testimony............................................ 29
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 111
International Association of Fire Chiefs:
Statement for the Record..................................... 123
Kaster, Amanda:
Opening Statement............................................ 12
Written Testimony............................................ 14
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 103
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
Opening Statement............................................ 2
McDonald, Norm:
Opening Statement............................................ 19
Written Testimony............................................ 21
Questions for the Record..................................... 110
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
Phipps, John:
Opening Statement............................................ 5
Written Testimony............................................ 7
Responses to Question from Senator Wyden..................... 47
Response to Question from Senator Cantwell................... 67
Response to Question from Senator Heinrich................... 73
Responses to Questions from Senator King..................... 83
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 93
Tanana Chiefs Conference:
Letter for the Record........................................ 129
Wyden, Hon. Ron:
Written Response from Secretary Bernhardt to Senator Wyden's
Question for the Record from the March 10, 2020 Committee
hearing.................................................... 45
WILDFIRE MANAGEMENT IN THE MIDST OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC
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TUESDAY, JUNE 9, 2020
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:09 a.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Lisa
Murkowski, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI,
U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA
The Chairman. This morning we have scheduled a hearing on
wildfire management in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic. Just
as COVID-19 has altered our daily lives, requiring us to don
face masks, practice social distancing and remain in self
isolation, the virus has also added a new layer of complexity
for our wildland firefighters. This year these heroes will be
fighting wildfires while simultaneously working to protect
themselves and others from a pandemic that threatens them,
their families and communities. I understand the USDA Forest
Service and the Department of the Interior had developed
guidance on social distancing and other COVID-19 mitigation
measures for our wildland firefighters. The health and safety
of these individuals is a top priority, and I encourage the
agencies to continue these efforts.
The summer fire season is shaping up to be as severe as
any. As fire activity increases, we can expect over 20,000
firefighters to be mobilized by the Forest Service, Interior
and their state, tribal, local and volunteer cooperators. At a
moment's notice, fire personnel will be traveling by airplane
and vehicle across state borders. Large concentrations of
firefighters, support specialists and private service
contractors will be assigned to incident command posts, or fire
camps, where they will eat, rest and stage equipment and
supplies. What was operationally routine before, may be exactly
the kinds of activities that now risk spreading the Coronavirus
around the fire services.
First responders at the state and local level are already
stretched thin due to COVID-19 response. This year's summer
fire season is well underway and adding to the strain. In the
State of Alaska, we have seen 179 wildland fires to date: total
acres burned--41,000 acres; current number of active staff
fires--we are at about three right now. So we are in our fire
season. Last week we saw nearly a dozen uncontained large fires
that were raging in the West. Several new large incidents were
reported over the weekend. It is also possible that regions
like Northern California will see a second wave of fires in the
fall if Santa Ana winds pick up and dry conditions persist on
the West Coast.
Overall, experts at the National Interagency Fire Center
are projecting this year's fire activity to be more active than
2019. Last year, 4.7 million acres were consumed by fire. That
was 25 percent below the average acres burned over the past ten
years. Some may look at those numbers and say, okay, we were
lucky there, but over half of those acres burned were in the
State of Alaska. We had one of the largest and most expensive
and heavily staffed fires last year. This was the Swan Lake
Fire up on the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge which burned off
and on for almost four months. There were over 3,000 people
that were assigned to that fire, including hundreds of
firefighters from the Lower 48. I think it just reminds us that
even in a below average year, the fallout from a small fraction
of infections on a fire like we saw last year in Swan Lake
could result in a significant number of COVID-19 cases this
year. We need to do everything possible to prevent that and to
ensure that our firefighters don't fall ill or have to self-
quarantine.
Through this hearing it is my hope that we begin to
understand how firefighting tactics and strategies are being
reimagined. I would also like to just very briefly add at the
end of my comments here that all of us have a responsibility
here. We want to use our great outdoors. In fact, we have the
Great Outdoors Act on the Floor right now and a recognition
that when we go outside we have a responsibility to be careful
as well.
Those who live or work in forest communities, those who
will be camping and recreating outdoors this summer, just take
precautions, be careful, be vigilant. And as I mentioned, it is
our personal responsibility in many ways as individuals, but it
is also a responsibility to clear hazardous trees, to deal with
overgrown vegetation around your homes and your properties. Pay
attention to weather conditions. Put out your campfires. Some
of these are not rocket science, but they can make a
difference. Drought, a changing climate and management
practices have all contributed to our forests becoming
dangerously flammable. Each of us can do our part to help our
firefighters by creating fire-resilient neighborhoods and
communities.
With that, I turn to my friend and Ranking Member, Senator
Manchin.
STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
Senator Manchin. Thank you, Chairman Murkowski, and thank
you for holding the hearing today on the summer's wildfire
season which is now upon us.
Before I get into my remarks, I also would like to take a
moment to thank all the firefighters who do a really very, very
difficult, tough job. These men and women bravely serve our
country day in and day out as they work long, grueling hours in
a very dangerous job. We all owe them a debt of gratitude. I
also recognize that by simply coming to work they are putting
themselves at increased risk of contracting COVID-19 and
possibly spreading it to their families. I am humbled that,
despite the risk, they choose to continue to serve. In order to
ensure members of the public and their livelihoods continue to
remain protected, I want all the firefighters to know that I
and all my colleagues are working to make certain that they
have the proper PPE and the equipment necessary to do their
jobs as safely as possible and guarantee that they will be
supported if they do contract COVID-19 this fire season.
Madam Chairman, I understand that last week the
meteorologists at the Department of the Interior and the Forest
Service released the National Wildfire Forecast for this
summer. Starting next month, pretty much the entire Western
U.S. is predicted to have more wildfires than they usually
have. Combined with the current COVID-19 pandemic, a lot of
fear exists among both the public and firefighters. I believe a
lot of that fear is simply fear of the unknown. There are
questions circulating among the public about the use of
evacuation centers this summer. There are questions circulating
among firefighters about workers' compensation coverage should
they contract COVID-19, but knowledge is the surest way to
quickly dispel fears. I cannot think of a better forum than
this morning's hearing to enable the witnesses to educate
everyone as to what we should expect this summer.
I understand the agencies have been planning for this since
March, and we are all excited to hear your plans to keep both
firefighters and communities safe. While planning and
preparations have been underway for this summer, Congress has
been also doing our part. The CARES Act included an additional
$270 million for the firefighter agencies to better prepare for
this summer. And last month I joined Chairman Murkowski and
Ranking Member Udall in sending a letter to Vice President
Pence asking for his assistance as the head of the Coronavirus
Task Force to remove any red tape that had been hindering
firefighters' ability to acquire PPE. I understand that by and
large that has now been done.
Just yesterday I introduced a bill with Ranking Member
Udall to ensure that any firefighters that contract COVID-19
will be supported. Our bill simply does two things. First, it
requires all firefighters to be tested for COVID-19 before
coming onto work this fire season. Second, because of the
unique living and working conditions that wildland firefighters
undertake, if a firefighter contracts COVID-19 during the fire
season, they will be presumed to have contracted it in the
course of their job duties, ensuring their eligibility for
workers' compensation coverage. We have heard the firefighters
are worried about whether they will be adequately covered
should they fall ill. Our bill ensures that firefighters can
have one less thing to worry about as they go about doing their
very tough, dangerous jobs.
My colleagues and I want everyone to be safe as possible
this summer, and I understand that different agencies that are
represented here are each taking slightly different approaches
in order to ensure everyone's safety. I look forward to hearing
from the witnesses about the various approaches they will be
taking this year. Through our discussion today, we can learn
from each other what is working well and then have those
practices that are proving to be the most effective to be
adopted more broadly.
Thank you again, Madam Chairman, for holding this morning's
hearing, which is so important.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
We will now turn to our witnesses and, as members note, we
are doing a hybrid hearing today. So we have, kind of, a split
screen. We have two of our witnesses that are here with us
today, and we have two witnesses that are joining us remotely.
First, I will introduce Mr. John Phipps, who is the Deputy
Chief for State and Private Forestry at the USDA Forest
Service. We welcome you here, Mr. Phipps.
Mr. Phipps is joined at the table by Amanda Kaster. Amanda
is the Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary for Lands and Minerals
at the U.S. Department of the Interior. Welcome.
On our video or our remote screen, we are joined by Mr.
Norm McDonald. Norm is the Director of Fire and Aviation at the
Alaska Division of Forestry. Norm, I know it is very early
there in Alaska, so we appreciate you joining us at about six
a.m. to do your business. This is going to be a long day for
you, but we are kind of used to these long days when we are
dealing with Alaska fires. Thank you for your work.
At this time, I would like to turn to Senator Cantwell for
her introduction of Mr. Geissler.
STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for
holding this important hearing. I know that when we see the map
and hear the details, this is not going to be the most pleasant
hearing for us, but the early warning system helps us do a lot.
I am so glad that Mr. Geissler is here with us today to
testify on behalf of the National Association of State
Foresters (NASF). He is the Past President of the National
Association of State Foresters, the current Chair of the NASF
Wildland Fire Committee and a member of the Wildland Fire
Leadership Council. His primary and most important job, for me,
anyway, I'd consider, is as Washington State Forester and
Deputy Supervisor for Wildfire. The Washington State
Commissioner of Public Lands appointed him to that position in
2018, and he came from Oklahoma where he served as the Director
of Forestry Services with the Oklahoma Department of
Agriculture. Prior to that role he worked in private
management, wildland firefighting and as a forester in the U.S.
Forest Service in Idaho.
I look forward to hearing what his comments are today about
a critical time for all of us in the Pacific Northwest and
throughout the nation.
The Chairman. Right. Thank you, Senator Cantwell.
With that, we will begin with our panel. We will go in the
order that I have introduced. First, Mr. Phipps, then Ms.
Kaster, then Mr. McDonald and then, Mr. Geissler. We would ask
that you try to keep your comments to about five minutes so
that we can have an opportunity for questions and your
responses at the end. Mr. Phipps, welcome. Give it a try. You
may be on.
STATEMENT OF JOHN PHIPPS, DEPUTY CHIEF FOR STATE AND PRIVATE
FORESTRY, USDA FOREST SERVICE
Mr. Phipps. Thank you, Madam Chairman, Ranking Member and
members of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to
appear before you today. My testimony outlines the current
status of USDA Forest Service wildfire preparations, the
protocols put in place to keep communities and our firefighters
safe and the ways the Forest Service is working with its many
partners to improve forest conditions and how communities
prepare for wildfire.
This last fall and winter have been dry across Western U.S.
and many states have lower than average snowpack. We have
already seen fire activity in the Southeast and Southwest. The
seasonal outlook from the National Interagency Fire Center
tells us that there is potential for above normal fire activity
as fuels continue to dry and cure in the Northwest, Northern
California and the Great Basin. Given this outlook and the
pandemic, we are focused on being prepared to protect our
responders and respond to fire. The Forest Service stands ready
to respond to wildland fire with up to 35 air tankers, 671
helicopters, more than 900 engines, 300 pieces of heavy
equipment and about 10,000 firefighters.
This year with COVID-19 we are focusing more than ever on
aggressive initial attack of wildland fires using local area
resources from all parties. Our goal is rapid containment to
minimize the number of large wildfires. Through work with the
National Multi-Agency Coordinating Group, we have developed
wildland fire response plans for each geographic area that
provide guidance during the Coronavirus pandemic for
maintaining fire response, continuity and enhancing firefighter
safety. We are relying on the medical expertise we receive from
the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National
Institute for Occupational Safety and Health and the National
Wildfire Coordinating Group's Interagency Emergency Medical
Committee and have established interim standard operating
procedures and protocols for screening and quarantine of
firefighters. We are relying on the CDC guidance for PPE and
continue to build inventories to meet current and future
national needs for wildland fire incidents. We have also
modified aviation and logistical contracts to better meet this
new environment.
We are not in this alone. We have strong relationships with
federal, state, local and tribal partners. We are working
closely with our interagency partners to issue guidance. The
Forest Service continues to focus on reducing wildfire risk to
communities and natural resources through prescribed burns,
timber harvest and other mechanical treatments. We continue to
move forward with our shared stewardship approach to improving
the conditions of our nation's forests, and we are on track to
meeting our targets. We are actively working with states,
tribes and other partners to share decisions, risk and create
mutually beneficial outcomes.
Thank you for the continued support of our wildland fire
management mission. We appreciate the fire funding fix, the
2018 Omnibus, 2018 and 2014 Farm bills, the Dingell Act and
passing the recent funding for additional PPE. I will conclude
by recognizing the 50th anniversary of the National Interagency
Fire Center in Boise this year. This partnership continues to
demonstrate that we are all in this together.
After sharing my testimony, I want you to remember three
things. One, given the challenge of fighting fire in this
pandemic, we will continue to do everything we can to protect
our people and the public. We understand that the uncertainty
ahead will require our best efforts to learn and rapidly adapt.
We greatly appreciate your continuing interest in helping us
successfully respond to wildland fire. I welcome any questions
you may have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Phipps follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Phipps.
Let's now turn to Ms. Kaster.
STATEMENT OF AMANDA KASTER, ACTING DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY,
LAND AND MINERALS MANAGEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
Ms. Kaster. Chairman Murkowski, Ranking Member Manchin and
members of the Committee, I am Amanda Kaster, the Acting Deputy
Assistant Secretary for Land and Minerals Management. I am
pleased to join you today to discuss the Department of the
Interior's diligent, ongoing efforts to maintain an effective
wildfire response. While mitigating the risk of COVID-19 to our
firefighters and the public, we are actively managing fuels and
vegetation to limit wildfires.
Every year the Department and its interagency partners are
faced with unique challenges in preparing for the wildfire
season. This year is no different. The onset of COVID-19
requires that the interagency wildland fire community be
thoughtful about the way it traditionally manages wildfires and
protects firefighters, communities and resources from that
risk. This year we have strategically planned for wildfire
suppression during the pandemic including sending wildland
firefighters across state borders. Our firefighters are working
as family units to protect people, property and themselves
while advancing safe and efficient fire suppression operations.
Thanks to your support, the CARES Act provides additional
critical resources to ensure that firefighters have the
equipment they need to fight wildfires this season.
Our coordination with our interagency, state and tribal and
local partners are vital to the Department's success in
carrying out its stewardship responsibilities, particularly
fuels management work and essential restoration efforts. Of the
nearly 4.7 million acres of land that burned in 2019, over half
occurred in Alaska which saw fire activity that far exceeded
the state's ten-year average. This season we are seeing
increased levels of wildfire activity in the Great Basin,
Southern and Rocky Mountain geographic areas. The most recent
outlook shows potential for above normal fire activity in 2020
with long-range forecast data showing overall warmer and drier
than average conditions this summer for the West. The President
and Secretary Bernhardt are committed and focused on active
land management efforts to reduce wildfire risk.
In 2019, the Department completed a total of 1.4 million
acres of fuels management treatments, including targeted
grazing and prescribed burns. So far in 2020, the Department
has completed 620,000 acres of treatments which is
approximately half of all planned treatments for this year. The
Department recently approved fuel breaks in the Great Basin
which would support the construction of up to 11,000 miles of
fuel breaks to control wildfires. Further, Under Secretary
Bernhardt's leadership, the Department is prioritizing the
streamlining of its processes through the creation of
categorical exclusions, and it has also begun the process of
updating its forest management rules to increase efficiency and
to improve the agency's ability to conduct active forest
management on public lands. These management efforts will
continue long after the fire season concludes.
While we cannot fully eliminate the risk associated with
COVID-19 to the firefighting workforce, experts throughout the
wildland fire community are actively collaborating on how to
limit firefighter exposure. The Medical and Public Health
Advisory Team consists of an interagency group of medical
health experts from DOI, USDA and the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention. This team has established guidance and
protocols including social distancing, cleaning and
disinfection, personal hygiene and well-being and the use of
personal protective equipment during fire operations. Our
priority continues to be aggressive, initial and extended
attack.
The Department is on track to have the same number of
firefighters this year as last season, including 4,500
temporary-seasonal, career-seasonal and permanent employees.
They will be supported by an available mix of firefighting
aircraft including access to 100 single engine airtankers, 370
helicopters, 18 scoopers and numerous other support aircraft.
The Department stands ready and able to fight fires across the
country this season. I'm happy to answer any questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Kaster follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Kaster.
Let's go up to Alaska, to Norm McDonald, our Director of
Fire and Aviation at the Forestry Division in Alaska.
STATEMENT OF NORM MCDONALD, ALASKA TYPE I TEAM INCIDENT
COMMANDER AND CHIEF OF FIRE AND AVIATION, ALASKA DIVISION OF
FORESTRY
Mr. McDonald. Good morning, Chairman Murkowski, Ranking
Member Manchin, and members of the Committee. My name is Norm
McDonald, Chief of Fire and Aviation for the State of Alaska
and the Incident Commander (IC) of the Alaska Incident
Management Team which is one of 16 national response teams in
the United States. The teams are geographically located and
support wildland and all hazard management with the majority of
the teams on the west side of the country with the primary
mission of wildland fire response. Last summer I had the
opportunity to meet with Senator Murkowski when she visited our
incident command post on McKinley Fire in Willow, Alaska. She
and I know many of you have witnessed firsthand the devastation
wildland fire can have on our communities and also the scope
and response it takes to manage these complex incidents.
What an incident looks like, a normal incident on a typical
year, our complex fires will consist of over thousands of
firefighters and support staff. The incident command posts are
built to support the firefighting efforts, including a large
mess hall, dining facilities, where we feed thousands of
firefighters a day. We hold daily briefings, consist
traditionally of large groups gathered to get assignments, fire
weather, fire behavior updates and the safety concerns of the
day. We hold cooperator and public meetings that host hundreds
of residents gathered to get updates on the incident, to ask
questions and share information. And of course, the
firefighting effort, boots on the ground, includes our crews,
engines, aircraft and heavy equipment. Those incident command
posts are designed to support those efforts.
The organizational model we use for incident management is
based on large groups of people in close contact settings. That
goes against every CDC recommendation that is out there since
the start of the COVID pandemic. The fires are dirty. There's
limited hygiene. The work is arduous. The days are long.
There's often little rest between incidents. Smoke exposure and
the grind of the season wears down the immune system, so even
in the best of times it's difficult to maintain a healthy
workforce. So for us, the concerns of COVID are real, and we're
aware of the risks.
Of the questions being asked of what are we doing to reduce
risk and adapt to the COVID environment, our priority is always
firefighter and public safety, every fire. And this year we're
looking at that from two different fronts, both the fire
hazards and risks and the COVID hazard and risks. And we're
asking what can we do to reduce that risk and reduce exposure.
Each team is working to adapt to the new environment. We're
developing and sharing best management practices through weekly
calls and updates and lessons learned.
Just yesterday we met with the Southwest Team who is
assigned to the Sawtooth Fire in Arizona. We share their after-
action review findings, and we just take that knowledge in
every fire to improve on where we started. We've conducted
simulation training to address COVID-related issues that we may
be faced with in fire camps. We've practiced and tested the use
of virtual platforms in lieu of our standard, large group
meetings and briefings, and we've adopted the ``Module of One''
concept through the family unit where each section is a stand-
alone unit. Part of our strategy in our strategic planning
process will focus on development of strategies and
alternatives that use tactics with the focus of reducing
exposure, not only to wildland fire, but also to hazards of
COVID.
Some of the challenges that we're going to be facing this
year and one of them is the very real issue of a reduced number
of resources and responders that make up our incident
management teams. Part of this is due to local government using
their responders, who traditionally go with us, as part of the
COVID response and there's the fears of if they respond out of
their community, the quarantine requirements involved with
that. There's high-risk category members on our teams. A lot of
our teams are made up of retirees. They come back each season
to augment our workforce during busy seasons, and they're
evaluating the safety of their response this summer.
This year there's an emphasis on initial attack which is a
good practice in this environment, but the results are
resources are being held back to support that mission. We have
seen some inconsistencies regarding direction when it comes to
testing and PPE requirements, and this provides some challenges
in messaging of our firefighters. We've seen travel times
delayed in Alaska. We're up to four days, so the reduction of
flights around the country is a concern.
I'll close out by saying I'm really honored to be here and
truly appreciate the opportunity to testify today. I speak for
myself and many of the ICs I've worked with this spring, and
I'll tell you there's no one saying we can't do this. They're
just asking and working on how we can do this safely. So I want
to thank you for your support and working with us to ensure we
are prepared for this season. I thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. McDonald follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. McDonald. We certainly
appreciate those words.
Let's now wrap up the panel with comments from Mr. George
Geissler from the Washington State Forestry Division.
STATEMENT OF GEORGE GEISSLER, WASHINGTON STATE FORESTER ON
BEHALF OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF STATE FORESTERS
Mr. Geissler. Good morning, Chairman Murkowski, Ranking
Member Manchin and members of the Committee. I appreciate the
opportunity to speak with you today and submit written
testimony as this Committee examines the outlook for the
remainder of the 2020 fire year, the complex issues surrounding
wildland fire management and the unique challenges presented by
the COVID-19 pandemic. NASF represents the state forestry
agencies in all 50 states, eight U.S. territories and the
District of Columbia. These agencies provide a significant
portion of the overall wildland fire suppression effort
nationally in terms of resources, personnel, capacity and
funds. As was stated earlier, just last year there were 50,477
wildland fires that burned nearly 4.7 million acres across all
jurisdictions. State forestry and local fire service responded
to the majority of those wildfires, 79 percent.
This year emergency responders across the U.S. are impacted
by COVID-19. Many state forestry agencies have been engaged to
varying degrees since early March supporting response efforts
alongside of our state emergency managers, health departments,
fire service and National Guard. Some of these state agencies
were also involved in fighting wildfires during this same
period. COVID-19 is posing significant challenges for wildland
fire professionals. Local and volunteer firefighters have been
overwhelmed by COVID-19 response. Some wildland fire agencies
struggled to hire and training for firefighters has been
difficult. We lost valuable time to conduct hazard risk
reduction work and initially there was a lack of understanding
regarding how to manage wildland fires during the pandemic.
State and federal agencies have developed operating procedures
for suppressing wildfires while reducing wildfire exposure to
COVID-19.
You have heard from the previous speakers and can find in
my written testimony how an effort managed by the National
Multi-Agency Coordinating Group has established a foundation of
baseline protocols and best management practices. This has not
been easy, nor is it complete. Protocols have been laid out as
living documents and are expected to be improved throughout the
year as we learn what is working and what does not through
after-action reviews done by our firefighters. We are building
a bridge as we cross it.
On the fire line we cannot be distracted and must maintain
our focus on the ever-present danger and risk of wildland fire.
COVID-19 does not change these dangers and we cannot jeopardize
safety in attempts to lower COVID risk. If something changes
one risk for another, we must figure out better protocols.
There are literally hundreds of best management practices
developed relating to the logistics of fire alone such as
camps, firefighter feeding and care. We're implementing
strategies such as physical distancing on fire lines and in
camps and we've identified COVID-19 PPE requirements. We've
also worked to evaluate suppression strategies to further limit
firefighter exposure. We look to the potential of more
dispersed, strategically placed crews but we also know that
rapid detection and initial attack to keep fires small is the
best way to minimize the number of personnel assigned to a
specific fire. To accomplish this, aviation resources are
critical. Both state and federal agencies are increasing their
number of on-call and exclusive-use fixed wing and motor
aircraft.
We appreciate the Committee holding this hearing and the
opportunity to highlight the coordination and cooperation of
the interagency planning efforts to address wildland fire
amidst the COVID-19 pandemic this fire year. We're encouraged
by this Committee's leadership and advocacy efforts with the
Administration to help secure PPE for federal, state and local
wildland firefighters. NASF continues to advocate that
emergency supplemental funding to state fire assistance and
volunteer fire assistance is the ideal mechanism for ensuring
that this need is met quickly and easily. Because the funding
assistance that was provided in the CARES Act is not available
for state wildland firefighters and funding available to local
and volunteer firefighters is through a competitive grant
process--significant time and resources to apply. NASF has also
requested funding from Congress to states to assist agencies in
securing wildland aviation contracts. Also, in the long-term,
we urge you to consider the effects of COVID-19 pandemic is
having on state budgets. It's critical that emergency response
capabilities that are provided by state forestry agencies for
all hazard response is maintained and not diminished by
impending cuts to state budgets.
Thank you for your time and the opportunity to speak with
the Committee. I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Geissler follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Geissler, and thank you to all
of our witnesses here today.
You have all spoken to the challenges that we are dealing
with. Firefighting on our public lands and our wildlands is
challenging enough, and then you interject the COVID pandemic
and the challenges that we face. How is it possible to even do
social distancing when you are out battling a fire on the lines
there? How do you transport our firefighters when you have to
move them in small aircraft or if they are on a road in
vehicles? These are challenges that are daunting to say the
least.
I want to ask a question that goes to the heart of the
testing issue because I have long maintained that the way that
this country is going to get back to work, the way we are going
to get our kids into school is when we can really have the
ability to test and give some certainty and certainty means
that more than one test and you are done. In Alaska we have
been pretty tough with our quarantine requirements to this day.
We have a 14-day quarantine policy when you fly into the State
of Alaska. They just changed that mandate last Saturday, I
believe it was, to allow that if you have tested negative
within 72 hours before you land in Alaska, you can come in and
you are free to move about, but you are required to get a
secondary test within a short period after you have arrived in
the state. If you are not able to get a test before you come,
there is a testing station at our major airports and you will
get a voucher then for a second test. We are taking this very
seriously.
For many of our rural communities the seriousness is more
than just following CDC guidelines. They are still motivated by
the fear that they saw in 1918 and are still retelling the
stories of whole villages that were literally wiped out. Many
of our wildland fires in Alaska are out in these rural areas
where you have these communities that have effectively locked
themselves in. They have said, we don't want anyone coming in
from not only the outside of Alaska but within the state to the
point where mail supplies and grocery supplies--they are saying
hold off on them. We are hunkering down because we are
concerned for our safety.
So this has been a very, very significant issue for us in
our communities where they are fearful of the virus, but now
they are fearful about firefighters who may be coming into the
region who may be carrying the virus. The question that I have,
and I will direct this to you, Norm. In Alaska, we have the
testing requirements that we have put in place and I appreciate
in your testimony, you didn't note it necessarily in your oral
testimony here but in your written testimony, you talk about
the protocols. If you can just briefly address some of the
issues that you have faced as you have put these into place
working with your federal partners to establish this protocol.
Then I would like to turn to you, Mr. Phipps, and you, Ms.
Kaster, about what can be done outside of the State of Alaska
to encourage more testing, whether we have legal considerations
that play into this. I would like to understand why what we are
doing in Alaska can't be replicated in other parts.
Mr. McDonald, if you can just speak to what you are doing,
how you are doing it and the challenges that you have faced in
getting these protocols in place.
Mr. McDonald. Okay and yeah, you addressed a lot of the
reasons why we work so hard to initiate testing protocol in
Alaska and a lot of that credit goes to our Department of
Health and Social Services. They're doing that, not only for
fire, but for our fisheries industry, oil and mining. So
they've worked very hard to set up this process.
On the fire side of it, so what that would look like is an
individual's resource order attached to an order will be the
requirements to check in and do a self-screen before they
depart. There's an app which puts your departure time and where
you're flying into. At both airports in Alaska, both Fairbanks
and Anchorage are testing facilities through a contract where
firefighters will get tested as they get off the airplane.
We're putting them into a quarantine for the 24 hours it takes
to get a test result back and we're seeing faster times now.
They've got new technology where we're seeing results back
within five hours which is, for a fire response, even better.
Once there's a negative result on that test, that
firefighter will go about their assignment. It's just part of
the process. So the testing is just one part. We're still
following social distancing, the hygiene, CDC requirements.
We're still wearing PPE, the masks, but that's just a very
important part of what we're doing to help reduce that risk to
our firefighters. You brought up some of the challenges we've
had, I mentioned it, is the inconsistency with some of the
guidance or direction some of our partner agencies are
receiving on the federal side.
So we, for Alaska, we call that, we have that a requirement
and some of the other agencies are feeling they cannot call
that a requirement, they can say, strongly recommend which
contradicts our feeling of what we need to do to provide for
firefighters and public safety in Alaska through testing.
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. McDonald.
I am well over my time, but Mr. Phipps or Ms. Kaster, if
you can just very quickly speak to why you have this
inconsistency in guidance here and what more can be done to
ensure that we are able to encourage a level of testing.
Mr. Phipps. I think the interagency community is highly
interested in pursuing a robust testing capacity. And as we
know, it's very decentralized to local health units and varies
from state to state but for the purposes of an average fire,
like he said, in a rural area, we're going to need more of a
mobile capacity that could come to the fire, screen people on
entry. There's a lot of people that go back and forth and
during and on exit, before they go home and we just haven't
seen that capacity even though we are highly interested in it
because it's--and I think one of the--it's a strength, but also
a constraint that the testing assumption is it's all local and
local varies.
The Chairman. So as I understand, you are not averse to
doing the testing, it is a matter of capacity at this point in
time.
Mr. Phipps. Yes, and we're very interested in whatever the
Committee could do to help make that national robust capacity a
reality.
The Chairman. Let me turn to Senator Manchin.
Thank you.
Senator Manchin. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Yesterday evening I introduced a bill with Ranking Member
Udall to make the workers' compensation process less onerous
for firefighters. I understand often several thousand people
live closely together in large command posts that usually pop
up to staff and support operations on a large wildfire. It
creates a unique scenario for these firefighters and would
increase the risk of transmission. Our bill would make sure
that these firefighters are covered. I understand the
Department of Labor has not made it possible for most
firefighters to meet the current Department of Labor
requirements to receive workers' compensation should they
contract COVID-19 during this fire season. So it has been a big
concern of firefighters.
Mr. Phipps and Ms. Kaster, do you support our efforts to
ensure that medical expenses of firefighters would be covered
should they contract COVID-19 this fire season?
Mr. Phipps. Yes, Forest Service, I know the Interagency
Environment supports that. We are concerned about the--it's not
exactly clear from the firefighters, looking through the
firefighter's lens, but we're highly interested in anything the
Committee could do to help strengthen or add clarity to the
expectations because we're, we clearly think that if somebody
comes down with COVID-19, they ought to be covered under the
Department.
Senator Manchin. All we are saying is basically during this
period of COVID-19 pandemic going on and fire season going on
that people should basically have access to workers' comp which
sometimes they don't because of the stringent requirements they
don't meet. But with this unusual situation, you are saying you
need clarity. You cannot do that by just Executive Order or----
Mr. Phipps. Well, we, right now, we've been told by DOL,
Department of Labor, that they will consider each case on a
case-by-case basis, that's our current understanding.
Senator Manchin. Okay. Well, we are going to do what we can
in this Committee to make sure we have clarity on that, that
these people do not have to wait and they do not have to
struggle and the families do not have to worry. It is
ridiculous.
Mr. Phipps. We appreciate that.
Senator Manchin. And you are told by DOL so, maybe we can
get to DOL. We will get them here.
Also, Ms. Kaster, can you tell me how you all came to the
decision on what you are using instead of testing? As I
understand you are not mandating testing, but I know in Alaska,
they test twice coming in.
Ms. Kaster. Thank you for that question, Senator.
So the Medical and Public Health Advisory Team guidance at
this time has contemplated that question and a lot of it comes
down to, you know, in the State of Alaska they are using their
resources for the purposes of testing. What I will say is
firefighter safety is truly paramount to the Department and as
the fire season continues, we're going to continue to explore
ways to better protect our firefighters. So that guidance will
continue to evolve over time.
Senator Manchin. So you are saying because of cost you
don't have the resources to do the testing?
Ms. Kaster. That's not accurate, Senator. It's just at this
time because of some CDC guidance, the testing of asymptomatic
employees is not recommended.
Senator Manchin. That does not make any sense at all. We
are asking people to go into a work environment and not knowing
if they are going to be associated with people that have been
infected or not.
Ms. Kaster. So we do temperature checks and other
recommendations consistent with CDC guidance.
Senator Manchin. Can you do testing? Would you all change
your requirement to do that? We are asking you because these
people are put in very, very difficult situations.
Ms. Kaster. We agree, Senator, that firefighter safety is
critical, and so we'd be happy to have further discussions. As
I said, we're going to need to continue to be vigilant and
active----
Senator Manchin. I mean, the fire season has already
started.
Ms. Kaster. Absolutely. And we have seen, you know,
outbreaks in various areas including in the Southwest and we're
taking those lessons learned to adapt----
Senator Manchin. So you are the Acting Director, right?
Ms. Kaster. I'm the Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary,
Senator.
Senator Manchin. Okay. So who do we need to get to?
Ms. Kaster. We're happy to work with you at the Department.
I stand ready.
Senator Manchin. I think you are going to find out if we
had a vote today it would be unanimous, bipartisan unanimous,
mandatory testing.
Ms. Kaster. We look forward to working with you.
Senator Manchin. What do you mean by working with us?
Ms. Kaster. We'll be happy to----
Senator Manchin. If we are telling you to test, can you
test?
Ms. Kaster. We do have testing available, yes, Senator.
Senator Manchin. We are saying that we want mandatory
testing for every firefighter going into fire season.
Ms. Kaster. We'd like to discuss that further with the
medical professionals at CDC as well. It's an interagency
effort, Senator.
Senator Manchin. Okay, well, that is not acceptable, but I
understand. I do not want to put you on a point. We have to
work this out. This is ridiculous.
I want to go to one more thing, real quick. Western
University, my alma mater, received an emergency National
Science Foundation Grant to design and manufacture personal
equipment, personal protective equipment, PPE, from wood
derivatives. I am happy to report last week the team finalized
its design, acquired the needed material and announced that
they are ready to begin making these PPEs. They will be using
3D printers to make locally-sourced, biodegradable, medical
grade face masks. They are aiming to have the manufacturing
process optimized later in the year.
I know the Forest Service Forest Products Lab has a group
that specializes in commercializing new products. So, Mr.
Phipps, is it possible or can you or will you, with the Forest
Products Lab, be able to come alongside the team at WVU and
what they have been able to accomplish and be ready to go with
this?
Mr. Phipps. Yes, it's very possible, and we'd be glad to do
it.
Senator Manchin. Have you all heard about this process,
what they are doing?
Mr. Phipps. Yes, I'm not familiar with the specifics, but
I've heard----
Senator Manchin. Can I connect you all?
Mr. Phipps. Yes.
Senator Manchin. Okay. Okay.
With that, let me just further--Madam Chairman, if I may?
The Chairman. Go ahead, Senator.
Senator Manchin. The testing for the firefighters, is
this--I mean, at this horrible time that we are going through,
I think that every member up here would like to have that
happen. What can we do so they have clearance and clarity to
what we want done as a Committee?
The Chairman. Well this is something that I do think we
need to really drill down on. It was my understanding that when
you have designated, specifically designated, critical workers
and our firefighters are definitely critical workers, that that
does put them in a different category because the very demands
of their job limit their ability to follow those other CDC
guidelines which is social distancing, washing hands. You go
out fighting fires, there is no place to be washing your hands.
You can put as much hand sanitizer on as you want.
Senator Manchin. Let us ask Mr. McDonald because in Alaska
they are testing twice. They must think it is, I mean, the
living conditions in a forest fire environment. Mr. McDonald, I
know I am over my time, but can you explain to us what you all
do and tell us about the living conditions people are in and
why you think it is imperative to know if a person has been
affected or not before you put them in that condition, in that
situation?
Mr. McDonald. Yeah, the living conditions are like I
described. They're very rustic, limited hygiene facilities,
social distancing is difficult, although we are working toward
that. For myself and the health people I work with in Alaska,
we just felt this was a very important step in the firefighter
safety and public safety process. We use a lot of tools in this
job to keep our firefighters safe. I look at this as just
another piece of the puzzle for this year during the COVID.
Senator Manchin. So you all thought it was imperative that,
basically, you tested before you put workers together working
in that type of environment?
Mr. McDonald. That is just one part of the process,
correct.
The Chairman. Senator Manchin, your time is up.
Senator Manchin. I know.
The Chairman. But I do think that this is an important
discussion for us. Alaska is a pretty big state. We had half of
the forest fires last year. We have learned that very often in
order to fight our fires we have to bring our own resources to
bear, but we do bring in, and thankfully so, so many crews from
the Lower 48. I understand the challenges of interagency and
the fact that we do have our respective states that might have
different views on testing, but it does seem to me that if I am
going to agree, volunteer to be a firefighter, I want to know
that I am going to be as safe in Arizona and Washington as I am
in Alaska when I am putting my life on the line.
Senator Manchin. I think we need to get a letter. We need
to get with Dave Bernhardt. We need to get Rob Wallace, and we
need to make sure this is cleared up. This is ridiculous. It
really is. I am not chastising anybody, but for Alaska--
firefighting is firefighting. Living conditions are the same
everywhere no matter where you go, and for them to take a
position that is so, I think, more beneficial to the
firefighters themselves and protecting them and for these
officials saying, well, CDC guidelines . . .
CDC guidelines are based on when we have not had enough
tests. This government will not pay for the testing that needs
to be done. They won't mobilize. They won't basically
commercialize the Defense Production Act in order for us to
have the tests that are needed. We are asking people to open up
and go back to business and there is not a person in West
Virginia that wants to go back to the workplace unless they
know the person they are working with is not affected.
It is just very difficult. It is very difficult. But we
will get with it. We will clear this up, not to put you--thank
you very much, and I did not mean to put you on the spot.
The Chairman. I don't know whether Senator McSally is still
on the line, but if you are, Senator, you are next.
[No response.]
Is she there, Darla? Okay, it does not appear that she is
there. If she comes back on, we will put her into the queue,
but let's turn to Senator Wyden.
Senator Wyden. Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I want
to begin by saying I think you and Senator Manchin are making a
lot of extraordinarily important points. I have been listening
to what the agencies are saying in Washington, DC, this
morning, not the folks out in the field, and they are talking
about exploring these critical issues. They are using the words
``considering,'' ``consulting.'' I do not see the urgency
needed to respond in a uniform, a practical way to what you and
Senator Manchin are talking about. So I really appreciate you
are trying to point out the fire season is happening now. COVID
is happening now and the idea that we are going to hear about a
lot of considering and consulting just is not going to protect
our courageous firefighters nor is it going to protect folks in
the rural West.
Obviously, getting to my remarks, because of this
unprecedented one-two punch to the rural West, a pandemic virus
and a potentially brutal wildfire season, on April 30th I
joined ten other Western Senators asking for specific answers
to the kinds of questions that are being raised here. We have
to have answers for rural residents. We have to have answers
for these courageous firefighters. And late yesterday, the
agency responded.
Now I am glad that they decided they would respond to 11
United States Senators, but they used much of the same language
that we have heard, Madam Chair, this morning. We heard, for
example, that they wanted to coordinate with state and local
partners. So back again to these kind of word salad kind of
ideas that really don't go to whether you are going to actually
get the work done that my colleagues are talking about. In
fact, I was recently briefed in Oregon by the local partners
and they did not give me any indication that there is direct,
on-the-ground coordination between DC health and emergency
services programs and the front lines of Oregon forestry.
In fact, Madam Chair, Ms. Kaster, at your agency, the
Department of the Interior, when asked to commit to maintaining
longstanding cooperation with the Oregon Department of Forestry
in fighting fires, Secretary Bernhardt just said, ``no.''
Madam Chair, I would like to make that written response a
part of the record----
The Chairman. It will be included.
Senator Wyden. ----at this point.
[Written response from Secretary Bernhardt follows.]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Wyden. So my first question then is for you, Mr.
Phipps. What specifically is the Forest Service going to do to
really address these issues, these issues of testing and
protection for the firefighters in rural communities using the
Centers for Disease Control and the Federal Emergency
Management Agency and do it with people on the ground quickly--
I am talking about within the next couple of weeks? What is
going to be done to get that help to folks on the ground
quickly?
Mr. Phipps. Thank you for the question. I think it's a
great question.
To date, our Interagency Medical Committee has actually
advised against testing. I know that runs contrary to a lot of
people's understanding of why that would be the case, and
they're concerned that testing is a snapshot in time so that's
why you have to do it multiple times and its accuracy is----
Senator Wyden. Mr. Phipps, we know that argument. So what
then is going to be done to protect the firefighters and these
communities, specifically?
Mr. Phipps. We're relying on the social distancing and
personal protective equipment, hygiene--moduling is one concept
that had been mentioned. To date, without having this, what I
had mentioned, a robust capacity that's actually mobile that
can come to a fire camp, you know, we're concerned that that
could easily overwhelm local health facilities. So we have to
do something, as the Interagency, more----
Senator Wyden. You need to tell us what that something is
within a week, and you need to get it to the Chair and the
Ranking Member because to just hear about ``exploring'' and
``doing something'' and ``maybe we will look at this'' is just
not acceptable to the people who give us an election
certificate.
[Information regarding plans for firefighter and community
protection during the fire season follows.]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Wyden. I have one last point that I am going to
make on my way out. It is for you, Ms. Kaster. Americans have
come from every corner of our country to demand justice for the
murder of George Floyd by the Minneapolis Police. Last week the
country looked on in horror as the Park Police and other
federal law enforcement unleashed brutally excessive force on
peaceful and lawful demonstrators. This was, of course, to
clear the way for the President to have this photo op at St.
Johns.
My question is I can't find anybody who will take
responsibility for what was done. I would like to have you, the
Department, tell me by the end of the week whether Secretary
Bernhardt gave the order to clear the protestors out of the
park. I would like to have that to me, in writing, by the end
of the week.
I am over my time, Madam Chair. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Wyden.
Next, Senator Cantwell.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to
the witnesses for being here in such an important time. I
definitely want to join in on the concerns both the, well
actually, everybody has voiced so far--the Chair, the Ranking
Member and Senator Wyden. There is a lot to be done to get
ready for this fire season. The reason why we want to get the
issues ironed out, particularly as it relates to COVID but also
as to what are we going to use in the best and greatest
technology, is that the National Interagency Fire Center issued
the Significant Wildland Fire Potential Outlook for the fire
season and for the State of Washington, and I would say the
whole Pacific Northwest, we are in the bullseye of what is
likely to be a very challenging fire season.
Now, the map shows, basically, most of the Pacific
Northwest, maybe not including Puget Sound, as being the
epicenter of this year's fire season.
[The August 2020 map follows:]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cantwell. So the only worse map that I think I saw
on that is the map that is next to it, and maybe it could be
pulled out a little bit, is the 2015 fire season map and we
know that that ended up being one of the worst fire seasons in
the history of our state.
[The August 2015 map follows:]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cantwell. Those two maps look very similar as it
relates to the Northwest being in the epicenter.
So we need to get ready. We need to get ready. We need to
continue the focus that the legislation that myself and Senator
Gardner passed related to technology that is used so that we
can detect fires earlier, and we need to use the satellite
technology that is there and available but I am not sure is
being processed through the Forest Service. So I want to know
what is it going to take for us to get that information and
technology used?
I guess, Mr. Geissler, I will start with you. The National
Weather Service satellite technology can detect fires at an
early stage and that is one of the ways, but a very good way,
for us to find fire starts right away.
And Deputy Chief Phipps and Deputy Assistant Secretary
Kaster, is the Forest Service and Department of the Interior
aware of this weather service satellite technology and are
states using it? Is there something else that the Forest
Service needs to take this technology and get it deployed for
this fire season? I can just tell you, those two maps with
basically the Pacific Northwest, of Washington, Oregon, Idaho
and Montana at the epicenter, we already know what happened in
2015. It was horrific. And if that is where we are headed, we
need to get this fixed and we need the best technology to stop
fires as soon as they start.
I don't know who can help by jumping in with this satellite
technology.
Mr. Phipps. I'm aware of the satellite technology, but I'm
not aware of how it's being currently used. There's something
that is, that we're developing that should be available in the
next couple weeks. It's called WildfireSAFE to try to get a
better idea on the conditions, how much potential an individual
fire would have so we can better triage putting resources,
putting them in the right mix at the right time and the right
place to keep the fires that have the potential from getting
large. But I will check into the new satellite technology and
get back with you.
[Information regarding satellite technology for fires
follows.]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cantwell. Mr. Geissler?
Mr. Geissler. Senator Cantwell, I will say that that is
actually a project that's very near and dear to my heart,
because the early use of that was actually through the National
Severe Storms Lab while I was still State Forester in Oklahoma
and it's being used very effectively with the Oklahoma Forest
Service right now. It is technology whereby the Weather Service
can detect the fires and notify the state fire folks where
they're located or where the potential is and it happens every
five minutes that they're looking at it. And basically, funding
toward the National Weather Service to pull this out would
probably not be that substantial in order to be able to bring
it to bear further across the country.
There are other states that are utilizing this technology
and, in fact, I believe, Colorado is one of those states that
has just brought that online.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
Ms. Kaster?
Ms. Kaster. Senator, I'd be happy to get back to you as to
DOI's use of the technology.
But what I will say is that the Department has made it a
priority to implement the Dingell Act which includes other
technological requirements for DOI, and we're going to continue
to do so.
Senator Cantwell. Well, I just cannot emphasize this
enough. We know that we are in the bullseye. We know what is
coming. We want to be better prepared, and we want the
technology to help us put out fires as soon as they start.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cantwell. You mentioned
the improvements within the Dingell Act and one of those that
we have been engaged in is the federal smoke monitoring which,
again, is important from a health/safety perspective.
Let's go to Senator Daines next.
Senator Daines. Thank you, Chair Murkowski, and I want to
thank you all for testifying and your leadership to protect the
health and well-being of Americans while still meeting land
management objectives during this pandemic.
This pandemic coincided with the season dedicated to
vegetation management, and wildfire preparation has now bled
into wildfire season. Emergency response are already mobilized
and exhausted so fighting the pandemic will be stretched thin
this wildfire season. The COVID-19 pandemic has introduced new
risks and challenges to wildland fire management, and I look
forward to this timely discussion.
In Montana 6.3 million acres of forest is at high or very
high wildfire hazard potential--1.6 million of those acres are
in close proximity to populated areas. To make matters worse,
as Senator Cantwell just showed on the map there, Montana is
expecting above average wildfire conditions this summer.
Mr. Phipps and Ms. Kaster, I understand that COVID-19
restrictions delayed fuel treatment projects. What are your
agencies doing to make up for lost time and reduce fuel loads
before we get into the middle of this fire season which looks
like it may be a tough one?
We will start with Mr. Phipps and then we will go to Ms.
Kaster.
Mr. Phipps. Thank you for the question. I really agree that
all these fuel treatments that the taxpayers have invested in
are very critical for reducing risk particular to communities.
We're trying to focus our treatments to actually reduce
wildfire exposure to communities and yes, it's true that early
in the pandemic that we paused some of our treatments,
particularly in the Southeast, and now we are ramping up and on
track for meeting this year's targets. It'll be challenging
with the lost time, but that's what we're endeavoring to do. We
believe that we're going to meet our timber target this year.
Senator Daines. Alright, thanks.
Ms. Kaster?
Ms. Kaster. Thank you, Senator.
The Department of the Interior continued forward its fuel
treatments during COVID-19. In fact, in Montana we were able to
do prescribed burns earlier this year. And so, we have made it
an effort to continue that effort as it is critical to being
prepared for the fire season, and we will continue our fuel
treatments efforts even after the fire season concludes.
Senator Daines. Last week the President signed an Executive
Order directing agencies to expedite certain projects in
response to this. What are your agencies doing to expedite
management projects during this national emergency, and what
can Congress do to help in that effort?
Mr. Phipps. Currently we're under--we're reviewing that
Executive Order and looking for opportunities for how to take
advantage of it in the pursuit of treating, making our projects
easier to accomplish.
Ms. Kaster. We're also reviewing the Executive Order, but
what I will say is the Department has already taken some
proactive actions that are consistent with that direction
including we recently finalized NEPA related to the Great Basin
fuel breaks and we've been looking at creating more
efficiencies within our existing authorities.
Senator Daines. Mr. Phipps, in your testimony you write
that 87 percent of fuel treatment projects have changed
wildfire behavior. Clearly active management is the best tool
in our tool belt to reduce the risk of wildfire. I am working
on some bipartisan legislation that will ensure the subject
matter experts in your agency have the ability to pursue these
science-based projects without unnecessary challenge. My
question is while some forest management activities were
stalled during the pandemic the onslaught of lawsuits were not.
There is a misconception that serial litigants only go after
commercial timber projects. I am aware of the one Cottonwood-
related lawsuit that has held up two time-sensitive hazardous
fuel projects for nearly ten years. This is also something I am
pursuing in legislation that I will be introducing very soon.
Mr. Phipps, how does the onslaught of litigation make our
communities more vulnerable to wildfires?
Mr. Phipps. It definitely slows things down. We pursue--
it's very challenging to operate at a rate fast enough to make
a difference and the lawsuits do slow us down and we're looking
at various strategies, including making a better effort at our
NEPA and streamlining that to move our work right along.
Senator Daines. I have one more question I am going to slip
in here before I wrap up my time here.
I am encouraged that both agencies are adopting an initial
aerial attack strategy to minimize the need to bring large
amounts of firefighters together reflecting the challenge, of
course, with COVID-19. It is my understanding, however, that
bureaucratic processes can limit the agency's ability to
respond quickly to national emergencies like the one we face
and increase the aerial fleet as appropriate. In fact, there is
a Montana company with new resources that could increase
firefighting capabilities by 15 percent but was told the
contracting timeline will not allow for those resources to be
used this season. This is hitting us on two fronts. Without a
contract the company will have to let dozens of folks go during
a time when the economic conditions are already tough. We won't
have these critical resources putting out wildfires, protecting
Montana communities this fire season, particularly when you saw
the chart that Senator Cantwell put up there in terms of the
forecast which does not look very good.
My question is, I want to ensure your agency has the
necessary tools to respond and fight fires as emergencies. Does
the Forest Service have any flexibilities or the ability to
fast-track CWN (Call When Needed) contracts to ensure robust
aerial fleet during the pandemic?
Mr. Phipps. I believe we do, Senator, and right now, I
believe that just about any air tanker that meets performance
and safety requirements is under some kind of contract either
from the Forest Service or Department of the Interior or the
state, but we'd be happy to look at the vendor that you're
looking at and look into it further.
Senator Daines. Ms. Kaster, about that?
Ms. Kaster. I share my colleague's sentiments. We believe
we have sufficient air resources, and I'm not familiar of the
example that you cite but am happy to look into it further.
Senator Daines. I can follow up with you on that as well
just looking at how we are going to have to have all hands on
deck here coming into this fire season, and we would like to
chat more with you about that if you would. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Daines.
Senator Daines. Thanks.
The Chairman. Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Ms. Kaster, going back to Senator Wyden's
question, who authorized the use of Park Police to clear
protestors?
Ms. Kaster. Senator, I'm here to discuss the Department's
management of the wildfire program. What I'd say is that the
jurisdiction of the Park Police falls under the National Park
Service, and they'd be happy to answer those questions.
Senator Heinrich. Well, let the record show that was a non-
answer. Do you know the answer to that question?
Ms. Kaster. No, I do not.
Senator Heinrich. Okay.
Mr. Phipps, you said that you were concerned that you could
overwhelm local testing capacity, but I would point out that
until my office reached out to the Forest Service, the Forest
Service had not actually coordinated with the New Mexico
Department of Health to figure out a protocol for being able to
manage the testing process as I would point out, six wildfires
have now started in the state and are actively burning. So what
is the status of the testing guidance between the Southwest
Coordinating Group and the New Mexico Department of Health and
when will that be finalized?
Mr. Phipps. Earlier I agreed to look into it by the end of
the week. I would agree, we do need a better, more
comprehensive direction about that. We've been following the
advice of the Interagency Medical Center, a committee that says
don't rely on it. It doesn't mean that we can't, on a state-by-
state or county-by-county basis, have--try to make something
happen.
Senator Heinrich. Well, I would point out that our Governor
has not taken the hands-off approach that you have articulated
with regard to testing. It is one of the reasons why our
numbers have been manageable, and I think that she would be
very interested in making sure that we are not importing cases
into the state in the midst of fire season in an environment
where community spread is almost assured.
At the end of the week, I would like to know that that
guidance has been finalized because we need it now. Fires are
burning now, and we are responding to them now.
Mr. Phipps. I understand.
[Information regarding finalized guidance follows.]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Heinrich. Is there a unified PPE procurement
strategy for your departments or is that being done, sort of,
region-by-region and team-by-team?
Mr. Phipps. We have a national strategy trying to get our
caches supplied for distribution and also each region and local
area are pursuing PPE as well. So it's both.
Senator Heinrich. I guess the reason why the hazard of, I
think, both is what we saw in the midst of March and April
where demand was very high and oftentimes FEMA and individual
governors, individual states, were actually, sort of, pitted
against each other and ended up bidding up the cost of things
like an N-95 mask to unreasonable levels. And so, I would urge
you to look at the greatest amount of coordination and, sort
of, one-stop approach to that, maybe through the National
Interagency Fire Center because I worry that you are going to
end up paying more and getting less product if you find
yourself in the same situation that many of us found ourselves
in just a few weeks ago.
I have also heard from individual constituents who work in
wildland firefighting that they are concerned that they and
their teams are not being provided with sufficient PPE. Are
fire personnel currently limited in the number of masks, for
example, that they are allowed per week?
Mr. Phipps. I'd say no. We have in our Interagency
Checklist for Mobilization--either ordering or receiving--
adequate PPE is one of the requirements. And so, if they don't
have adequate equipment, personal protective equipment, they're
not going to be on the fire.
Senator Heinrich. Okay. I will follow up, because I am
definitely hearing that from some constituents.
Madam Chair, I think I am out of time, but I want to say
how much I appreciate this hearing, because I think we have our
work cut out for us.
The Chairman. Yes, I think we do and it is not only looking
at the maps and the intensity of what we might see but it is
how we balance the other threat that we are dealing with right
now that makes it even more challenging. So thank you for that.
Let's go virtually to Senator McSally.
Senator McSally. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate it.
Right now, Arizona is in the midst of dealing with both the
pandemic and the wildfire season. The Sawtooth Fire near Gold
Canyon, Arizona, is the Southwest region's first Type 1 fire of
the season and the first major fire during the pandemic. The
fire is now, thankfully, 80 percent contained and I want to say
thanks to the firefighters and the first responders who led
this effort and developed COVID mitigation strategies that can
be implemented around the country. While Coronavirus is a new
challenge, for sure, for our wildland firefighters, this is a
group of professionals who are well versed in risk assessment
and mitigation. Because Arizona's fire season starts earlier
than most of the rest of the West, our fire crews have already
been successful fighting wildfires while implementing COVID-19
mitigation measures where possible.
As the fire season progresses, I just want to encourage the
debriefs and the lessons learned from our crews in Arizona will
help those around the West better prepare successfully to
battle wildfires. I just really encourage the Forest Service to
reach out and get those lessons learned so that they can be
used for others.
One of the most effective ways to reduce the wildfire risk
over the long haul, though, is to improve the health of our
forest. In Arizona, the Four Forest Restoration Initiative, or
4FRI, is looking to do just that by mechanically thinning more
than a million acres of national forest. But in order to reach
this target the project needs to rapidly increase production.
At hearings in this Committee more than a year ago I questioned
Forest Service Chief Vicki Christiansen about the delays with
the 4FRI Phase 2 RFP and how the Forest Service planned to
implement the reforms outlined in my Forestry bill and when we
could finally expect a Phase 2 contract award. Since then, we
have had nine amendments to the RFP and months and months of
delays. I understand the RFP solicitation finally closed on May
12th and the Forest Service is in the review process. I am sure
you can see from the bids you received that Arizona's logging
industry is eager to get to work restoring our national forests
and preventing these wildfires.
Mr. Phipps, when can you tell me that the Forest Service
will award this Phase 2 contract and when will the forestry
work actually begin under Phase 2?
Mr. Phipps. Thank you for the question.
As I understand it, it's on track to be awarded in
September and the work could, if conditions are appropriate,
could begin in the fall.
Senator McSally. Okay. I hope that to be true and the
concern on the ground, obviously, is that the work can start
before they start to see the winter and the snow up in the area
that needs to be mitigated. So September is the hope and you
think that it is on track for that timeline still?
Mr. Phipps. Yes.
Senator McSally. Okay, thank you.
While much of the focus has rightly been on how the
Coronavirus may affect the health of firefighters, the pandemic
has impacted the wildfire seasons in other ways. The social
distancing orders have reinvigorated America's love for the
outdoors. As stay-at-home orders have relaxed, Americans have
flocked to campgrounds, national forests and public lands for
healthy, socially distant recreation. We are seeing this around
all the amazing places we have in Arizona. Many campgrounds and
outdoor recreation sites in Northern Arizona's Cool Pines
reported their busiest days ever over Memorial Day weekend this
year. In general, this is a good trend. More people outdoors
enjoying public land and rebuilding our rural economies, but
more people in the forest also brings increased risk of human-
caused wildfires.
Mr. Phipps, what are the federal foresters doing
differently this year to encourage safe recreation on public
lands which is greatly needed during this pandemic while
mitigating the high wildfire risk that of more people, you
know, we bring more people to the forest, there is a higher
risk of human-caused fires?
Mr. Phipps. Thank you for the question.
What we're doing different, we've accelerated our ad
campaign with the Smokey Bear messaging to get the word out
that it's really important, as always, but more so in the
pandemic to be careful with fire so we can reduce the amount of
human starts which are the majority of fire starts, and we're
increasing our patrols in the forest and, in some cases, where
fire risk is at a particularly high level, we would be
preemptively banning campfires, if needed.
Senator McSally. Great. Thank you.
I am out of time. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator McSally.
Let's go to Senator Hirono, please.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Right now, it is my understanding that our fire responders
in Hawaii have adequate PPE to protect them from COVID-19.
However, forecasters are expecting warmer and drier conditions
than average in Hawaii from June through September. During that
same time, drought conditions are expected to increase,
especially on the leeward side of the islands with above-normal
significant fire potential. Last year, devastating fires on
Maui burned 25,000 acres, five times the area burned in 2018.
Also, according to the USDA Forest Service's Wildfire Risk to
Communities Assessment, homes in Hawaii are at greater risk to
wildfire than 92 percent of other states. While it is
challenging enough to prepare and be ready for another busy
fire year across the state, we also have to add on top of that
be prepared for COVID-19.
Mr. Phipps, right now we do not know when the next
supplemental bill to address the impact of COVID-19 will be
signed into law. The State Fire Assistance Program at the U.S.
Forest Service has, to date, not received additional funds to
purchase PPE. Thinking about Hawaii and how our fire responders
will likely need additional equipment in the future, is there a
way that you can still help state fire agencies, for example,
perhaps by federal agencies sharing excess PPE with the
departments that are shorthanded? Could that happen?
Mr. Phipps. That's a great question, thank you.
I believe that's possible. Through our Interagency Fire
Center we have PPE and it's--we're in it together and if
there's an identified need for a particular state, be it
Hawaii, I'm sure that that could be arranged.
Senator Hirono. That answer says to me that if we
anticipate the need for more PPEs that we should contact your
agency earlier rather than later so that we can be sent
additional PPEs.
Mr. Phipps. Yes, indeed.
Senator Hirono. Is that right?
Mr. Phipps. Yes, that's right and also the National
Association of State Foresters could be helpful in that. We're
all very interested in making sure that whatever stockpiles we
have go to the right places at the right time.
Senator Hirono. Yes, and as I mentioned, Hawaii is also one
of the places where we are expecting a very busy fire season.
Along the same lines, Ms. Kaster, are there opportunities
for Interior to share excess PPE should state and local fire
responders find themselves shorthanded?
Ms. Kaster?
Ms. Kaster. Thank you, Senator.
Just as my colleague indicated, we coordinate the--
coordinate all this at an interagency level so we'd be happy to
discuss that further with you and what I would say is we're
really committed to supporting our interagency partners, our
states, our local entities, as we fight fire this season.
Senator Hirono. Thank you. I am glad to know that all of
our agencies are more than willing to lend a helping hand.
Mr. Geissler, in Hawaii and I am sure all across the
nation, the COVID-19 pandemic has hit state and local budgets
very hard, and I know that increasing funding for the state and
volunteer fire assistance programs through the Forest Service
via any future supplemental bill could help fire responders in
Hawaii. I also know that the National Association of State
Foresters also support this effort. Can you expand on the
importance of assisting state and local fire responders,
especially amid all of the current constraints presented by the
pandemic?
Mr. Geissler. Thank you, Senator.
Yes, as you brought up, funding through state fire
assistance and volunteer fire assistance is actually the
easiest mechanism to actually help both state and local
responders. The systems and processes are already in place to
give those organizations direct funding without putting
additional bureaucracy in place, and one thing we can do is
that we work together in order to identify between states as
well as within states what the need is, working with our own
state departments of health. And as you heard earlier, the
states are connected. We do talk and try to determine how one
state can help another through our interagency agreements as
well as through state compacts where we can move firefighters,
if necessary, to various locations around the U.S., including
Hawaii.
So again, I appreciate your thoughts with regard to where
the funding should go and that will be a direct impact on the
local fire service who would need critical PPE.
Senator Hirono. Thank you very much. It is reassuring to
know that it is a coordinated effort and, of course, all the
states are probably going to see a pretty big budget shortfall.
That is one of the reasons that we need to push for another
COVID bill that will provide funding for state and local
governments with their budget shortfall. Of course, all that
kind of funding can go toward the firefighting resources that
we need. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
Is Senator Hoeven with us? He is next in the queue. Let's
see if he pops on.
[No response.]
The Chairman. If not, we will turn to Senator Barrasso, who
is definitely in the queue here.
Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you, Madam Chairman.
Following up with Senator Hirono who gave us the weather report
from Hawaii, I will tell you that the interstate between
Cheyenne and Laramie is closed. We had six inches of snow last
night. So there are lots of differences from state to state. It
is an astonishing thing.
Madam Chairman, last June you convened a hearing on the
Wildfire Outlook for 2019. You do it every year. This year, as
in most things, the wildfire season looks quite a bit
different. Senator Hirono mentioned it. Others have mentioned
it as well, Senator McSally. 2018--truly catastrophic fires;
2019--my home State of Wyoming fared much better; 2020--
unprecedented times. Yellowstone National Park is now reopened
as is Grand Teton National Park, we reopened May 18th. The fire
risk expands beyond the normal outlook because of the concerns
for our firefighters and their safety during this pandemic.
Our forests are diverse ecosystems. As you all know, they
need immediate attention. I want to talk a little bit about
thinning, trying to thin overgrown stands, removing dead and
downed timber. Getting this fuel load out of there, I believe,
will significantly reduce fire risk. We will also make sure
that we are spending federal dollars responsibly. So we need to
coordinate action between local government, state government
and federal agencies. That is the key to success. I think that
requiring coordination among so many skilled partners like the
witnesses today is helpful.
So my question, and I will start with Ms. Kaster and then
ask a follow-up to Mr. Phipps, is that President Trump issued
an Executive Order in December 2018, Ms. Kaster. The order
directed the Forest Service and the Department of the Interior
to coordinate on a number of activities to increase the treated
acres on federal land and then reduce, as a result, the risk of
catastrophic wildfire. In your written testimony, you talked
about Fiscal Year 2020, the Department of the Interior----
[Feedback.]
----maybe Hoeven is back.
[Laughter.]
In the written testimony you mentioned that in Fiscal Year
2020 the Department had completed about 620,000 acres of
treatment, about half of all the planned treatments, and over
80 percent of the benchmark which is established by the
President's Executive Order. The National Interagency Fire
Center updated their ``Significant Wildland Fire Potential
Outlook.'' That is their map for August. Thankfully this year,
Wyoming is only at normal risk for catastrophic wildfire. Could
you just share with us how reports from groups like the
National Interagency Fire Center and data from state agencies
factor into your Department's planning for future fuel
treatments?
Ms. Kaster. Thank you for that question, Senator.
We do rely on our state agencies and other entities to
provide helpful data and what I will say is that for the
Department of the Interior, it yields results. As you noted, we
treated 1.4 million acres last year, 620,000 acres to date and
we're going to continue to prioritize those efforts moving
forward. They are critical. Like in Wyoming, we, this year,
have planned some treatments of existing fuel breaks and we're
going to build some new fuel breaks. So it's something we are
definitely focused on, and we're going to continue to be
focused on that effort moving forward.
Senator Barrasso. And then, could I ask you for your
follow-up as well, your recommendation, sir?
Mr. Phipps. That's a great question.
We factor that in in our risk assessment work which
includes not only vegetation condition but weather patterns
across different parts of the country to prioritize and there,
even within any given state, there's a lot of variability. So
to the extent we can we're trying to focus our treatments in a
pattern and amount and intensity where it can really make a
difference to reducing exposure to communities and other
highly-valued resources.
Senator Barrasso. You mentioned vegetation. I just want to
follow up on that because in March, regions placed a pause on
prescribed burns and we understand the reason behind that. Can
you talk about specific changes in hazardous fuel management
that maybe the Forest Service made to address the 2020 fire
season from the approach you had in 2019?
Mr. Phipps. Well, certainly our efforts are--we know that
we're, we have a backlog. We're behind and so every--now,
particularly given that we had to pause, we're really going
after trying to get these planned treatments done. In addition
to that, we're planning to include an increased effort to focus
treatments in a more intentional way than we have done in the
past years.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
Senator King.
Senator King. Thank you, Madam Chair.
First, I want to thank and praise Mr. Phipps for knowing
that Smokey Bear does not have a middle name. Our state
forester informed me of that some years ago. ``The'' is not
Smokey Bear's middle name, just for the record.
[Laughter.]
I want to ask a question that is somewhat touchy but I have
heard for years that one of the problems with forest fires in
the West and particularly in national forests is a lack of
forest management, that there is a lot of debris, there is a
lot of old growth, rotted trees, dead trees, trees on the
ground. And my question is, what do we have for data on that?
It seems to me this is something and maybe it exists and I just
don't know about it. But it seems to me, Mr. Geissler, this is
a question to you as well. Couldn't we do apples to apples
comparison between relatively low-managed U.S. Forest Service
land and privately-managed land and see if there are
comparisons that when the climate, you know, you can adjust for
the climate and all of those other factors?
It just seems to me this is an area where there ought to be
data and that is what we ought to be basing our decisions upon.
It worries me that we may be, and of course, once a fire
starts, it does not respect the lines between U.S. Forest
Service and the private sector. So give me your thoughts on
that issue.
Mr. Phipps. Another great question. We look at, when we say
lack of forest management, that's true in part. One of the
greatest problems is that most of the fire regimes in the West
or throughout the country require frequent, low intensity
ground fire. Pre-settlement the forests looked really different
than they do now. And so, we need forest management to reduce
density and then we must return fire to the landscape. You have
to do both.
Senator King. In Maine we call that pre-commercial
thinning.
Mr. Phipps. Pre-commercial or commercial thinning to reduce
density and then run prescribed fire through those areas.
That's what it will take to get more fire resilience on the
landscape.
Senator King. But is part of the problem that we don't
harvest enough on federal lands? That there is just--they are
just allowed to go by themselves and that creates the
undergrowth and the fuel?
Mr. Phipps. That's part of the problem given our--a lot of,
there's been a lot of settlement into these areas, and we have
to suppress fire. Naturally, pre-settlement fire would roam on
the landscape doing a lot of the work. But we've been
suppressing fire for decades, and that primarily accounts for
the buildup in hazardous fuels is the lack of natural fire. And
that's why now we really need forest management to open up the
vegetation so we can return prescribed fire to the landscape in
a very careful and planned way.
Senator King. Maine is the most forested state in the
country, and yet we have relatively, except for a catastrophic
fire in 1947, limited problem with fires. But I don't know that
we do prescribed burning, as you suggest. It is more intensive
management and it is all, virtually all, privately owned. Do
you really need fires to prevent fires?
Mr. Phipps. Well, it's highly variable by different forest
type, different forest ecosystems. The forests in the Northeast
are different than the ones in the West.
Senator King. Sure.
Mr. Phipps. And forest management there or fires on the
East Coast generally are now more lower probability, wind-
driven events where we can get, if you get the right conditions
and a wind, you have quite a problem. But it's not the same
type of risk than we see in California or Nevada or anywhere in
the West.
Senator King. Well, what I would like to see is comparative
studies of 10,000-acre plots, U.S. Forest Service versus
private in the same geographic region so that the climate
factors are the same and the timber mix is the same. I would
urge you to either work on studies such as that, I think that
would be very informative, or to collect such studies if they
have been done and forward them to the Committee.
Thank you for your testimony.
[Information regarding forest fire studies follow.]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator King. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Phipps. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator King.
I believe we have Senator Hoeven with us.
Senator Hoeven. Chairman?
The Chairman. Go ahead, Senator Hoeven.
Senator Hoeven. Can you hear me now?
The Chairman. I can. You are coming in.
Senator Hoeven. Great. I am sorry, I thought Dr. Barrasso
was ahead of me there and so that is why I was not ready to go,
but I appreciate you calling on me. Thanks so much for holding
this hearing. I would like to start my questions with Deputy
Chief Phipps.
The first one is in North Dakota. We do a tremendous amount
of work with unmanned aerial systems, UAS, through our test
site, the Northern Plains test site in Grand Forks and UND
School of Aerospace and Aviation, and our state partners, our
Guard, flies unmanned aircraft as well. So we are very deep
into the whole UAS world. I would ask, can you discuss the role
that UAS have in emergency response and restoration activities
in regard to what the USDA Forest Service is doing in terms of
not only combating forest fires, but you know, prevention as
well?
Mr. Phipps. Thank you for the question.
We're actually very excited about new opportunity and,
under the Dingell Act, we've recently with the Department of
the Interior, made a decision to invest in a robust capability
of using unmanned aerial systems. And how we would use them,
they're primarily very good for mapping, getting intelligence,
going into places that are difficult to access in the fire
environment. That's really helpful. It's safer to use a drone
most of the time than to use scouts. And in general forest
management, it's very helpful for the reconnaissance work
gathering information so we can plan new projects.
Senator Hoeven. Is there a role for them while you are
actually fighting the fires as well?
Mr. Phipps. Yes. In monitoring what's going on oftentimes
we use helicopters but it's lower exposure to pilots and other
responders to use a drone than it is any other method and that
we're looking forward to using those when we get them in. We
can also use them for aerial ignition for prescribed fire.
Senator Hoeven. Is there something that we can do to
interface through our test site in Grand Forks with USDA on
that issue? Is there a way that we can, like I say, get
involved with USDA in developing that----
Mr. Phipps. We would welcome the partnership. We could look
into that.
Senator Hoeven. Would you be the person to contact?
Mr. Phipps. Yes.
Senator Hoeven. Okay, very good, we will do that. We will
follow up.
My other question is what about--we are dry in Western
North Dakota and we have the grasslands out there as well. What
are you doing to work with ranchers to make sure that you are
responsive to both in terms of any controlled burns so that you
don't have an issue there, but then also as far as making sure
coordination on the firefighting challenges?
Mr. Phipps. Thank you for that.
Our direction to our field leaders is to coordinate,
coordinate, coordinate--share risk before fire comes and that's
particularly true anywhere there's a national grassland or
national forest. That's what we do and there's a lot of time
spent in developing agreements, doing scenario planning to help
get prepared for each fire season.
Senator Hoeven. Well, I would ask that you be responsive to
those ranchers. They are out there on the ground. They are
certainly concerned about any controlled burns, particularly
when it is dry, but then also in terms of working with them on
any firefighting is very important. So I would ask for your
commitment to work very closely with----
Mr. Phipps. Yeah, we can do that.
Senator Hoeven. ----the ranchers and the grazing
associations.
The other question I have is for Deputy Assistant Secretary
Kaster and that is in regard to working with the tribes on the
reservation as far as firefighting and the coordination effort
to make sure that you are responsive to the tribes, to BIA and
their firefighting communities.
Ms. Kaster. Tribes are a critical component of our ability
to fight fires and we do work with them, both at the
reservation level and also, as you mentioned, in coordination
with the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
Senator Hoeven. What are you doing to make sure you have
outreach and that you are proactive in terms of areas that may
be particularly dry this year?
Ms. Kaster. Senator, I'd have to get back to you on the
specifics of what BIA has been doing in terms of treatments
with tribes, but I know overarching, the Department has been
very focused on ensuring that across all DOI lands, including
with tribes, that we are being thoughtful and coordinated in
our ability to prevent fire ahead of time.
Senator Hoeven. Alright. Thank you. And again, thank you,
Madam Chairman, I appreciate it.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hoeven.
Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate
everyone being here today. I have been bouncing between here
and the Banking Committee, so I so appreciate the written
testimonies as well.
From Nevada, as you know, wildfires and how we address
them, manage them in the middle of a pandemic as well, is
crucial and important for state. So let me start with a couple
of things. I know the Forest Service and the BLM in Nevada have
contracted additional air assets to help combat potential loss
of ground crews that are currently based in Nevada, and the
Nevada Division of Forestry is looking into how they may be
able to assist with bolstering contracted air assets to assist
in Nevada.
So let me ask a question to the panel. What do you and
other states need from federal partners to increase air tanker
support, because I know how crucial that is for my state? I
will open it up to the panel and maybe, Deputy Chief Phipps, if
you don't mind starting the discussion?
Mr. Phipps. Thank you.
We've been working quite diligently. Air tankers, air
resources have been a continuing challenge. We believe this
year, like in my testimony, I said, we have up to 35 large air
tankers. I think it's important to understand that we have
also, access to in the interagency environment, for example,
the Department of the Interior has 100 single engine aircraft
or air tankers under contract and depending on the situation
and the need, we have access to that and we're well underway
for our planning and preparedness for the upcoming Western fire
season.
Senator Cortez Masto. Okay. So nothing else that we can do
at a federal level to assist you in that space?
Mr. Phipps. Not at this time.
Senator Cortez Masto. That is good to hear. Thank you.
In Nevada, as you are well aware, we have--and actually the
Chairwoman has been out to Tahoe and she has seen this--we have
extensive use of a fire camera network to monitor and detect
our wildfires. We have the Alert Tahoe and the Alert Wildfire
programs.
Let me ask. In light of the ongoing pandemic, would you say
that an expansive fire detection camera network would have an
even larger role to play right now among new technology that
makes it available to determine where fires may be starting?
Mr. Phipps. Yes. Anything that we can do to detect a fire
and mobilize resources, the sooner, the better. We believe, as
mentioned, that keeping the fire small and it has everything to
do with that very early on, after ignition, getting adequate
resources to extinguish, contain the fire. And so any earlier
detection is an advantage.
Senator Cortez Masto. Ms. Kaster, the Alert Wildfire
recently received federal funding assistance from the U.S.
Forest Service, but it is also getting assistance from the
Department of the Interior as well. Can you tell me the status
on the funding of this program? It is the Alert Wildfire
program I just talked about.
Ms. Kaster. I'm happy to look into it, Senator, and get
back to you.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, I appreciate that, thank
you so much.
Let me jump now to both testing as well as vaccines. There
is a day when we are going to have a vaccine and I am curious.
I know my Nevada Division of Forestry is working closely with
the Department of Emergency Management in the state to list
their emergency responder staff as priority for these, for
these vaccines. I am curious what the Forest Service and the
BLM are doing in thinking ahead to the day when we have the
vaccine. Are you preparing for that and what is your
preparation?
Mr. Phipps or Ms. Kaster?
Mr. Phipps. That's a great question. We've been imagining
that. To be quite honest we've been somewhat focused on the
next few months for the fire season, understanding that we're,
you know, we refer to the fire year, but we are very much
looking forward to having the vaccine and getting our
responders vaccinated so we can put this particular risk of the
pandemic behind us because there's enough risk in the wildland
fire environment to begin with, so.
Senator Cortez Masto. Right. So it would make sense for the
first responders to have early access to the vaccine. Do you
agree with that?
Mr. Phipps. Yes, I agree with that.
Senator Cortez Masto. Ms. Kaster?
Ms. Kaster. Senator, CDC guidance has actually, in our
coordination with CDC, they have prioritized firefighting staff
and we'll continue to work with them to do so as they really
are our front line, folks that are really just going to be
crucial this upcoming fire season.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank
you to the panelists, I notice my time is up. I will submit the
rest of my questions for the record.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. We will look forward to
those.
To Ms. Kaster's final point there, recognizing that CDC has
recognized the critical nature and the critical status for
purposes of early access to the vaccine, one would think that
that guidance would then follow through when it comes to
testing. So know that that is a great concern of this
Committee. I think you heard it repeated by several. I do think
that what we are demonstrating in Alaska is a path forward. Now
granted, we don't share those common borders with the other
states, but I think aggressive testing is one way that can give
that assurance when it is just not possible to follow those CDC
guidelines related to social distancing and sufficient hygiene.
So know that we are going to continue to press you on this.
I am going to ask one, maybe one and a half, final
questions here as we wrap.
Recognizing that we do have resource mobilization issues
that we have talked through here and you do have other concerns
that you don't have in ``a normal'' fire year, as we see this
fire season underway in Alaska and coming now on here in the
Lower 48, what is the status of our hiring numbers and working
with both state and federal?
I am going to turn to Mr. McDonald in Alaska to talk about
what we are seeing on the ground right now. Do we have the
folks that we need and able to assist? I know that it is really
a moving target as we look to what may come in these next weeks
ahead, and then I would like to ask the same question to our
federal partners.
Mr. McDonald.
Mr. McDonald. For state resources we were on target for
bringing people back to work. We went through a quarantine
period and some remote working, but we are on track with
getting our crews ready for this fire season. Our cooperators,
the federal agency that we work with, are as well, their crews
are on step at this point.
The concerns I do have and for Alaska and specifically as
with our village crews, our emergency firefighting crews, those
numbers have already been dropping over the last decade for
various reasons and then this year with the COVID overstory
those are even taking a greater hit. And the concern, as you
brought up, is if those crews leave a village or to be in
contact with COVID and then return to that village and
reintroducing that into a community like that, that's a real
concern that we have in Alaska. We've worked through that
process. We'll continue to work through that process. We're
working with those village crews and those communities on
options and some of that does and will include testing. So I
will say, for us, that's probably our biggest hit to
availability is with those village resources that we count on
in Alaska.
The Chairman. Well thank you for raising that because that
is something that, you know and many of our federal partners
know, I have continued to push on the need to ensure that these
native fire crews coming out of the villages which are real
experts in their region are protected. They know the conditions
on the ground better than anybody else out there, and they are
true professionals. So it is concerning to me, perhaps even
alarming, to think that because of COVID we may be in a
situation where we lose the few fire crews, village fire crews,
that we have in place now.
We have seen over the years our federal partners relying on
them less and less which is not the direction I think we need
to go and with this fear, it is not only the great benefit that
they bring during active fire season but also what they can do
to help us when we are doing off season fuels mitigation work.
Know that this is going to continue to be an issue for me in
how we can make sure that our village fire crews are stood up
every year--that they get the training that they need but also
in a safe work environment.
Mr. Phipps, can you speak to what we are seeing with regard
to recruitment with our Lower 48 crews?
Mr. Phipps. Yes, thank you.
We are, the Forest Service, is on track to hire in most of
our regions. We are having a bit of a challenge in Region 5
because of the competitive nature in salaries, but we're hoping
to get up to operational levels there. We have heard from some
of our partners in the states that some of the inmate crews may
not be available this year and so, system, wildland fire system
wide, there is some concern that we won't have exactly the same
capacity as last year, but the Forest Service is working
diligently to try to get all the firefighters we can.
The Chairman. Well I would like more detail on this.
Alaska, as I mentioned, is kind of its own team up there,
supplemented by the Lower 48 crews which we greatly appreciate.
But when you look at the maps that Senator Cantwell showed,
this is going to be a tough year if our predictions are right
and usually those predictions are not too far off. To hear that
we are not quite sure, in fact, maybe we are sure, that we are
not going to be able to get those who have come from other
places before--whether it is through our prisons or otherwise--
and just to recognize that as a firefighter, again, inherently
dangerous work, but now additional threats through COVID, that
that is going to impact our recruitment efforts. We need to
know what this game plan is to gear up so that when it hits,
whether it is Arizona or Washington at the same time things are
going off in Alaska, the last year we got lucky. We got lucky
because Alaska really went off at a time when the Lower 48 was
very quiet, so we were able to cover everything, 3,000 fire
workers up in Alaska. We were able to cover those fires because
we didn't have the activity in the Lower 48.
We can't count on luck to be a strategy when it comes to
resourcing these wildland fires because we know that wildland
urban interface, they don't care. The Santa Ana winds that I
mentioned, they push it into the biggest metropolitan area. I
know that for our state, our local, our tribal, our federal, we
have got to have a better handle on our level of preparedness
for this season. So I want to have more conversation on that.
I am going to end with one last question and this may be to
Mr. McDonald again, but I am very active with my co-chair of
the Arctic Conference, very active with the Arctic
Parliamentarians, and we discuss all kinds of matters related
to Arctic concerns--infrastructure, climate--but one of the
things that has been on our agenda in many meetings of late has
been what we are seeing with these northern wildfires. Last
year, Russia had significant, significant wildfires. Our
friends in Canada have seen increased wildfires. In Norway, in
their forests, they are seeing an increased level of fires. And
it is not just in the north, we saw Australia that was truly on
fire last year and we were able, as a country, to be able to
help Australia with their efforts.
I raise this because it is a matter of global concern here,
and the question that was raised in a call that I had with
Arctic Parliamentarians last week was to what extent are
agreements in place to either share fire crews or aviation
assets across our international borders whether it is U.S. and
Canada, but just an understanding here of these implications of
the fires. Right now we have a ``no travel'' restriction unless
it is essential between the United States and Canada. I am
certainly hopeful that we would have had conversations between
Canada and Alaska, our states along the Canadian border in the
Lower 48, about how will we move crews if we need to be moving
crews? How will we move the aviation assets if we need to do
so?
Can you give me some assurance, or Mr. McDonald, can you
tell me if we are at the ready when it comes to these fires
that cross beyond our national borders?
Mr. McDonald. Well, I can speak for Alaska. We are part of
what is called the Northwest Compact which includes most of the
Western states and a lot of the Canadian providences where we
share resources including aircraft or air tankers or scoopers,
and we have a very good relationship with all those Compact
members. That's a tool that we use every year to import
firefighters and aerial assets to Alaska and then return when
it's the Lower 48 season, we send our firefighters too at their
request.
I was talking to State Forester George Geissler as well
just this morning, and we've got some of his firefighters in
Alaska right now helping out through that Compact. So that
works very well for us, and we rely on those assets to get us
through our seasons like last year. And as you mentioned, the
seasons are just continuing to get worse through climate
change. Last year was a really good example of the most
devastating and the highest fire indices we've ever witnessed
in Alaska. And it was an eye opener, I think, for a lot of
people but, yeah. So that's, so we do have those Compacts in
place and available. Those resources are available to us.
The Chairman. Yes, I think we got the attention of many in
this country. I believe it was a New York Times article about
the Arctic zombie fires where the fires can literally continue
for years on end. They go underground during the winter into
the peat tundra and then in the spring they will just be little
poofs of fire that, if the conditions are right, can ignite and
these zombie fires in the Arctic, in Alaska and Russia
particularly, are getting some attention there.
I am going to end by an acknowledgment of two individuals
that have given extraordinary careers when it comes to the
forestry community in my state. Chris Maisch is our Alaska
State Forester. He has spent 36 years serving Alaska. He has
been our State Forester for the past 15 years. He has actually
said he is going to retire. I think this time he actually means
it, but he has been just an enormous asset for us in the state.
And also, Shawna Legarza, who is the Fire and Aviation Director
at the Forest Service. Shawna has over 25 years in fire
management. She was a hotshot crew member herself. These are
exceptional individuals who have really committed themselves to
the cause which is providing for the safety of so many,
ensuring not only safe communities but that our environments
continue and our forests continue in healthy conditions. So I
want to acknowledge their considerable work to the effort and
to the cause.
With that, I thank you. We have had a good hearing. We have
had good participation from Committee members. I think our
witnesses have heard very clearly, we are concerned about how
we can ensure that the safety of our firefighters out on the
line, both from fire as well as from COVID, how we can have
access to more testing, the assets that we need to have in
place and working with our federal partners, our state
partners, our tribal and local to do just that.
This is a little bit concerning, every time we have this
fire hearing, because you are never quite sure what the season
is actually going to look like. But if those maps don't get all
of our attention and kind of kick us in the rear to say, let's
make sure that we have these fire crews that are ready and not
base this strategy on a hope that we are going to just be hit
in a manner and in an order that we can track and stay on top
of because Mother Nature doesn't usually care.
With that, we stand adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:10 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.]
APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
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