    [Senate Hearing 116-371]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 116-371

                      WILDFIRE MANAGEMENT IN THE MIDST OF THE
                                COVID-19 PANDEMIC

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                  JUNE 9, 2020

                                   __________

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                           Printed for the use of the
                   Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                   __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    40-917                 WASHINGTON : 2021

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                   COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                        LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
    JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
    MIKE LEE, Utah                       MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
    STEVE DAINES, Montana                BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
    BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
    CORY GARDNER, Colorado               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
    CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
    MARTHA McSALLY, Arizona              ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
    LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee           CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
    JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota

                          Brian Hughes, Staff Director
                          Lucy Murfitt, Chief Counsel
                Nick Matiella, Senior Professional Staff Member
                     Renae Black, Democratic Staff Director
                    Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
            Bryan Petit, Democratic Senior Professional Staff Member
                         Darla Ripchensky, Chief Clerk

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page
    Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Alaska....     1
    Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
      West Virginia..................................................     2
    Cantwell, Hon. Maria, a U.S. Senator from Washington.............     4

                                   WITNESSES

    Phipps, John, Deputy Chief for State and Private Forestry, USDA
      Forest Service.................................................     5
    Kaster, Amanda, Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary, Land and
      Minerals Management, U.S. Department of the Interior...........    12
    McDonald, Norm, Alaska Type I Team Incident Commander and Chief
      of Fire and Aviation, Alaska Division of Forestry..............    19
    Geissler, George, Washington State Forester, on behalf of the
      National Association of State Foresters........................    27

              ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

    Cantwell, Hon. Maria:
        Witness Introduction.........................................     4
        Chart entitled ``Significant Wildland Fire Potential
          Outlook--August 2020'' produced by Predictive Services,
          National Interagency Fire Center, issued May 1, 2020.......    63
        Chart entitled ``Significant Wildland Fire Potential
          Outlook--August 2015'' produced by Predictive Services,
          National Interagency Fire Center, issued August 1, 2015....    65
    (The) Edison Electric Institute:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   115
    Firefighters United for Safety, Ethics & Ecology:
        Letter for the Record........................................   119
    Geissler, George:
        Opening Statement............................................    27
        Written Testimony............................................    29
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................   111
    International Association of Fire Chiefs:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   123
    Kaster, Amanda:
        Opening Statement............................................    12
        Written Testimony............................................    14
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................   103
    Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
        Opening Statement............................................     2
    McDonald, Norm:
        Opening Statement............................................    19
        Written Testimony............................................    21
        Questions for the Record.....................................   110
    Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
        Opening Statement............................................     1
    Phipps, John:
        Opening Statement............................................     5
        Written Testimony............................................     7
        Responses to Question from Senator Wyden.....................    47
        Response to Question from Senator Cantwell...................    67
        Response to Question from Senator Heinrich...................    73
        Responses to Questions from Senator King.....................    83
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................    93
    Tanana Chiefs Conference:
        Letter for the Record........................................   129
    Wyden, Hon. Ron:
        Written Response from Secretary Bernhardt to Senator Wyden's
          Question for the Record from the March 10, 2020 Committee
          hearing....................................................    45

           WILDFIRE MANAGEMENT IN THE MIDST OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC

                                  ----------

                             TUESDAY, JUNE 9, 2020

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:09 a.m. in
    Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Lisa
    Murkowski, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

        The Chairman. This morning we have scheduled a hearing on
    wildfire management in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic. Just
    as COVID-19 has altered our daily lives, requiring us to don
    face masks, practice social distancing and remain in self
    isolation, the virus has also added a new layer of complexity
    for our wildland firefighters. This year these heroes will be
    fighting wildfires while simultaneously working to protect
    themselves and others from a pandemic that threatens them,
    their families and communities. I understand the USDA Forest
    Service and the Department of the Interior had developed
    guidance on social distancing and other COVID-19 mitigation
    measures for our wildland firefighters. The health and safety
    of these individuals is a top priority, and I encourage the
    agencies to continue these efforts.
        The summer fire season is shaping up to be as severe as
    any. As fire activity increases, we can expect over 20,000
    firefighters to be mobilized by the Forest Service, Interior
    and their state, tribal, local and volunteer cooperators. At a
    moment's notice, fire personnel will be traveling by airplane
    and vehicle across state borders. Large concentrations of
    firefighters, support specialists and private service
    contractors will be assigned to incident command posts, or fire
    camps, where they will eat, rest and stage equipment and
    supplies. What was operationally routine before, may be exactly
    the kinds of activities that now risk spreading the Coronavirus
    around the fire services.
        First responders at the state and local level are already
    stretched thin due to COVID-19 response. This year's summer
    fire season is well underway and adding to the strain. In the
    State of Alaska, we have seen 179 wildland fires to date: total
    acres burned--41,000 acres; current number of active staff
    fires--we are at about three right now. So we are in our fire
    season. Last week we saw nearly a dozen uncontained large fires
    that were raging in the West. Several new large incidents were
    reported over the weekend. It is also possible that regions
    like Northern California will see a second wave of fires in the
    fall if Santa Ana winds pick up and dry conditions persist on
    the West Coast.
        Overall, experts at the National Interagency Fire Center
    are projecting this year's fire activity to be more active than
    2019. Last year, 4.7 million acres were consumed by fire. That
    was 25 percent below the average acres burned over the past ten
    years. Some may look at those numbers and say, okay, we were
    lucky there, but over half of those acres burned were in the
    State of Alaska. We had one of the largest and most expensive
    and heavily staffed fires last year. This was the Swan Lake
    Fire up on the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge which burned off
    and on for almost four months. There were over 3,000 people
    that were assigned to that fire, including hundreds of
    firefighters from the Lower 48. I think it just reminds us that
    even in a below average year, the fallout from a small fraction
    of infections on a fire like we saw last year in Swan Lake
    could result in a significant number of COVID-19 cases this
    year. We need to do everything possible to prevent that and to
    ensure that our firefighters don't fall ill or have to self-
    quarantine.
        Through this hearing it is my hope that we begin to
    understand how firefighting tactics and strategies are being
    reimagined. I would also like to just very briefly add at the
    end of my comments here that all of us have a responsibility
    here. We want to use our great outdoors. In fact, we have the
    Great Outdoors Act on the Floor right now and a recognition
    that when we go outside we have a responsibility to be careful
    as well.
        Those who live or work in forest communities, those who
    will be camping and recreating outdoors this summer, just take
    precautions, be careful, be vigilant. And as I mentioned, it is
    our personal responsibility in many ways as individuals, but it
    is also a responsibility to clear hazardous trees, to deal with
    overgrown vegetation around your homes and your properties. Pay
    attention to weather conditions. Put out your campfires. Some
    of these are not rocket science, but they can make a
    difference. Drought, a changing climate and management
    practices have all contributed to our forests becoming
    dangerously flammable. Each of us can do our part to help our
    firefighters by creating fire-resilient neighborhoods and
    communities.
        With that, I turn to my friend and Ranking Member, Senator
    Manchin.

                  STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA

        Senator Manchin. Thank you, Chairman Murkowski, and thank
    you for holding the hearing today on the summer's wildfire
    season which is now upon us.
        Before I get into my remarks, I also would like to take a
    moment to thank all the firefighters who do a really very, very
    difficult, tough job. These men and women bravely serve our
    country day in and day out as they work long, grueling hours in
    a very dangerous job. We all owe them a debt of gratitude. I
    also recognize that by simply coming to work they are putting
    themselves at increased risk of contracting COVID-19 and
    possibly spreading it to their families. I am humbled that,
    despite the risk, they choose to continue to serve. In order to
    ensure members of the public and their livelihoods continue to
    remain protected, I want all the firefighters to know that I
    and all my colleagues are working to make certain that they
    have the proper PPE and the equipment necessary to do their
    jobs as safely as possible and guarantee that they will be
    supported if they do contract COVID-19 this fire season.
        Madam Chairman, I understand that last week the
    meteorologists at the Department of the Interior and the Forest
    Service released the National Wildfire Forecast for this
    summer. Starting next month, pretty much the entire Western
    U.S. is predicted to have more wildfires than they usually
    have. Combined with the current COVID-19 pandemic, a lot of
    fear exists among both the public and firefighters. I believe a
    lot of that fear is simply fear of the unknown. There are
    questions circulating among the public about the use of
    evacuation centers this summer. There are questions circulating
    among firefighters about workers' compensation coverage should
    they contract COVID-19, but knowledge is the surest way to
    quickly dispel fears. I cannot think of a better forum than
    this morning's hearing to enable the witnesses to educate
    everyone as to what we should expect this summer.
        I understand the agencies have been planning for this since
    March, and we are all excited to hear your plans to keep both
    firefighters and communities safe. While planning and
    preparations have been underway for this summer, Congress has
    been also doing our part. The CARES Act included an additional
    $270 million for the firefighter agencies to better prepare for
    this summer. And last month I joined Chairman Murkowski and
    Ranking Member Udall in sending a letter to Vice President
    Pence asking for his assistance as the head of the Coronavirus
    Task Force to remove any red tape that had been hindering
    firefighters' ability to acquire PPE. I understand that by and
    large that has now been done.
        Just yesterday I introduced a bill with Ranking Member
    Udall to ensure that any firefighters that contract COVID-19
    will be supported. Our bill simply does two things. First, it
    requires all firefighters to be tested for COVID-19 before
    coming onto work this fire season. Second, because of the
    unique living and working conditions that wildland firefighters
    undertake, if a firefighter contracts COVID-19 during the fire
    season, they will be presumed to have contracted it in the
    course of their job duties, ensuring their eligibility for
    workers' compensation coverage. We have heard the firefighters
    are worried about whether they will be adequately covered
    should they fall ill. Our bill ensures that firefighters can
    have one less thing to worry about as they go about doing their
    very tough, dangerous jobs.
        My colleagues and I want everyone to be safe as possible
    this summer, and I understand that different agencies that are
    represented here are each taking slightly different approaches
    in order to ensure everyone's safety. I look forward to hearing
    from the witnesses about the various approaches they will be
    taking this year. Through our discussion today, we can learn
    from each other what is working well and then have those
    practices that are proving to be the most effective to be
    adopted more broadly.
        Thank you again, Madam Chairman, for holding this morning's
    hearing, which is so important.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
        We will now turn to our witnesses and, as members note, we
    are doing a hybrid hearing today. So we have, kind of, a split
    screen. We have two of our witnesses that are here with us
    today, and we have two witnesses that are joining us remotely.
        First, I will introduce Mr. John Phipps, who is the Deputy
    Chief for State and Private Forestry at the USDA Forest
    Service. We welcome you here, Mr. Phipps.
        Mr. Phipps is joined at the table by Amanda Kaster. Amanda
    is the Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary for Lands and Minerals
    at the U.S. Department of the Interior. Welcome.
        On our video or our remote screen, we are joined by Mr.
    Norm McDonald. Norm is the Director of Fire and Aviation at the
    Alaska Division of Forestry. Norm, I know it is very early
    there in Alaska, so we appreciate you joining us at about six
    a.m. to do your business. This is going to be a long day for
    you, but we are kind of used to these long days when we are
    dealing with Alaska fires. Thank you for your work.
        At this time, I would like to turn to Senator Cantwell for
    her introduction of Mr. Geissler.

                   STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL,
                      U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON

        Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for
    holding this important hearing. I know that when we see the map
    and hear the details, this is not going to be the most pleasant
    hearing for us, but the early warning system helps us do a lot.
        I am so glad that Mr. Geissler is here with us today to
    testify on behalf of the National Association of State
    Foresters (NASF). He is the Past President of the National
    Association of State Foresters, the current Chair of the NASF
    Wildland Fire Committee and a member of the Wildland Fire
    Leadership Council. His primary and most important job, for me,
    anyway, I'd consider, is as Washington State Forester and
    Deputy Supervisor for Wildfire. The Washington State
    Commissioner of Public Lands appointed him to that position in
    2018, and he came from Oklahoma where he served as the Director
    of Forestry Services with the Oklahoma Department of
    Agriculture. Prior to that role he worked in private
    management, wildland firefighting and as a forester in the U.S.
    Forest Service in Idaho.
        I look forward to hearing what his comments are today about
    a critical time for all of us in the Pacific Northwest and
    throughout the nation.
        The Chairman. Right. Thank you, Senator Cantwell.
        With that, we will begin with our panel. We will go in the
    order that I have introduced. First, Mr. Phipps, then Ms.
    Kaster, then Mr. McDonald and then, Mr. Geissler. We would ask
    that you try to keep your comments to about five minutes so
    that we can have an opportunity for questions and your
    responses at the end. Mr. Phipps, welcome. Give it a try. You
    may be on.

     STATEMENT OF JOHN PHIPPS, DEPUTY CHIEF FOR STATE AND PRIVATE
                     FORESTRY, USDA FOREST SERVICE

        Mr. Phipps. Thank you, Madam Chairman, Ranking Member and
    members of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to
    appear before you today. My testimony outlines the current
    status of USDA Forest Service wildfire preparations, the
    protocols put in place to keep communities and our firefighters
    safe and the ways the Forest Service is working with its many
    partners to improve forest conditions and how communities
    prepare for wildfire.
        This last fall and winter have been dry across Western U.S.
    and many states have lower than average snowpack. We have
    already seen fire activity in the Southeast and Southwest. The
    seasonal outlook from the National Interagency Fire Center
    tells us that there is potential for above normal fire activity
    as fuels continue to dry and cure in the Northwest, Northern
    California and the Great Basin. Given this outlook and the
    pandemic, we are focused on being prepared to protect our
    responders and respond to fire. The Forest Service stands ready
    to respond to wildland fire with up to 35 air tankers, 671
    helicopters, more than 900 engines, 300 pieces of heavy
    equipment and about 10,000 firefighters.
        This year with COVID-19 we are focusing more than ever on
    aggressive initial attack of wildland fires using local area
    resources from all parties. Our goal is rapid containment to
    minimize the number of large wildfires. Through work with the
    National Multi-Agency Coordinating Group, we have developed
    wildland fire response plans for each geographic area that
    provide guidance during the Coronavirus pandemic for
    maintaining fire response, continuity and enhancing firefighter
    safety. We are relying on the medical expertise we receive from
    the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National
    Institute for Occupational Safety and Health and the National
    Wildfire Coordinating Group's Interagency Emergency Medical
    Committee and have established interim standard operating
    procedures and protocols for screening and quarantine of
    firefighters. We are relying on the CDC guidance for PPE and
    continue to build inventories to meet current and future
    national needs for wildland fire incidents. We have also
    modified aviation and logistical contracts to better meet this
    new environment.
        We are not in this alone. We have strong relationships with
    federal, state, local and tribal partners. We are working
    closely with our interagency partners to issue guidance. The
    Forest Service continues to focus on reducing wildfire risk to
    communities and natural resources through prescribed burns,
    timber harvest and other mechanical treatments. We continue to
    move forward with our shared stewardship approach to improving
    the conditions of our nation's forests, and we are on track to
    meeting our targets. We are actively working with states,
    tribes and other partners to share decisions, risk and create
    mutually beneficial outcomes.
        Thank you for the continued support of our wildland fire
    management mission. We appreciate the fire funding fix, the
    2018 Omnibus, 2018 and 2014 Farm bills, the Dingell Act and
    passing the recent funding for additional PPE. I will conclude
    by recognizing the 50th anniversary of the National Interagency
    Fire Center in Boise this year. This partnership continues to
    demonstrate that we are all in this together.
        After sharing my testimony, I want you to remember three
    things. One, given the challenge of fighting fire in this
    pandemic, we will continue to do everything we can to protect
    our people and the public. We understand that the uncertainty
    ahead will require our best efforts to learn and rapidly adapt.
    We greatly appreciate your continuing interest in helping us
    successfully respond to wildland fire. I welcome any questions
    you may have.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Phipps follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Phipps.
        Let's now turn to Ms. Kaster.

    STATEMENT OF AMANDA KASTER, ACTING DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY,
     LAND AND MINERALS MANAGEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

        Ms. Kaster. Chairman Murkowski, Ranking Member Manchin and
    members of the Committee, I am Amanda Kaster, the Acting Deputy
    Assistant Secretary for Land and Minerals Management. I am
    pleased to join you today to discuss the Department of the
    Interior's diligent, ongoing efforts to maintain an effective
    wildfire response. While mitigating the risk of COVID-19 to our
    firefighters and the public, we are actively managing fuels and
    vegetation to limit wildfires.
        Every year the Department and its interagency partners are
    faced with unique challenges in preparing for the wildfire
    season. This year is no different. The onset of COVID-19
    requires that the interagency wildland fire community be
    thoughtful about the way it traditionally manages wildfires and
    protects firefighters, communities and resources from that
    risk. This year we have strategically planned for wildfire
    suppression during the pandemic including sending wildland
    firefighters across state borders. Our firefighters are working
    as family units to protect people, property and themselves
    while advancing safe and efficient fire suppression operations.
    Thanks to your support, the CARES Act provides additional
    critical resources to ensure that firefighters have the
    equipment they need to fight wildfires this season.
        Our coordination with our interagency, state and tribal and
    local partners are vital to the Department's success in
    carrying out its stewardship responsibilities, particularly
    fuels management work and essential restoration efforts. Of the
    nearly 4.7 million acres of land that burned in 2019, over half
    occurred in Alaska which saw fire activity that far exceeded
    the state's ten-year average. This season we are seeing
    increased levels of wildfire activity in the Great Basin,
    Southern and Rocky Mountain geographic areas. The most recent
    outlook shows potential for above normal fire activity in 2020
    with long-range forecast data showing overall warmer and drier
    than average conditions this summer for the West. The President
    and Secretary Bernhardt are committed and focused on active
    land management efforts to reduce wildfire risk.
        In 2019, the Department completed a total of 1.4 million
    acres of fuels management treatments, including targeted
    grazing and prescribed burns. So far in 2020, the Department
    has completed 620,000 acres of treatments which is
    approximately half of all planned treatments for this year. The
    Department recently approved fuel breaks in the Great Basin
    which would support the construction of up to 11,000 miles of
    fuel breaks to control wildfires. Further, Under Secretary
    Bernhardt's leadership, the Department is prioritizing the
    streamlining of its processes through the creation of
    categorical exclusions, and it has also begun the process of
    updating its forest management rules to increase efficiency and
    to improve the agency's ability to conduct active forest
    management on public lands. These management efforts will
    continue long after the fire season concludes.
        While we cannot fully eliminate the risk associated with
    COVID-19 to the firefighting workforce, experts throughout the
    wildland fire community are actively collaborating on how to
    limit firefighter exposure. The Medical and Public Health
    Advisory Team consists of an interagency group of medical
    health experts from DOI, USDA and the Centers for Disease
    Control and Prevention. This team has established guidance and
    protocols including social distancing, cleaning and
    disinfection, personal hygiene and well-being and the use of
    personal protective equipment during fire operations. Our
    priority continues to be aggressive, initial and extended
    attack.
        The Department is on track to have the same number of
    firefighters this year as last season, including 4,500
    temporary-seasonal, career-seasonal and permanent employees.
    They will be supported by an available mix of firefighting
    aircraft including access to 100 single engine airtankers, 370
    helicopters, 18 scoopers and numerous other support aircraft.
    The Department stands ready and able to fight fires across the
    country this season. I'm happy to answer any questions.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Kaster follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Kaster.
        Let's go up to Alaska, to Norm McDonald, our Director of
    Fire and Aviation at the Forestry Division in Alaska.

        STATEMENT OF NORM MCDONALD, ALASKA TYPE I TEAM INCIDENT
     COMMANDER AND CHIEF OF FIRE AND AVIATION, ALASKA DIVISION OF
                                FORESTRY

        Mr. McDonald. Good morning, Chairman Murkowski, Ranking
    Member Manchin, and members of the Committee. My name is Norm
    McDonald, Chief of Fire and Aviation for the State of Alaska
    and the Incident Commander (IC) of the Alaska Incident
    Management Team which is one of 16 national response teams in
    the United States. The teams are geographically located and
    support wildland and all hazard management with the majority of
    the teams on the west side of the country with the primary
    mission of wildland fire response. Last summer I had the
    opportunity to meet with Senator Murkowski when she visited our
    incident command post on McKinley Fire in Willow, Alaska. She
    and I know many of you have witnessed firsthand the devastation
    wildland fire can have on our communities and also the scope
    and response it takes to manage these complex incidents.
        What an incident looks like, a normal incident on a typical
    year, our complex fires will consist of over thousands of
    firefighters and support staff. The incident command posts are
    built to support the firefighting efforts, including a large
    mess hall, dining facilities, where we feed thousands of
    firefighters a day. We hold daily briefings, consist
    traditionally of large groups gathered to get assignments, fire
    weather, fire behavior updates and the safety concerns of the
    day. We hold cooperator and public meetings that host hundreds
    of residents gathered to get updates on the incident, to ask
    questions and share information. And of course, the
    firefighting effort, boots on the ground, includes our crews,
    engines, aircraft and heavy equipment. Those incident command
    posts are designed to support those efforts.
        The organizational model we use for incident management is
    based on large groups of people in close contact settings. That
    goes against every CDC recommendation that is out there since
    the start of the COVID pandemic. The fires are dirty. There's
    limited hygiene. The work is arduous. The days are long.
    There's often little rest between incidents. Smoke exposure and
    the grind of the season wears down the immune system, so even
    in the best of times it's difficult to maintain a healthy
    workforce. So for us, the concerns of COVID are real, and we're
    aware of the risks.
        Of the questions being asked of what are we doing to reduce
    risk and adapt to the COVID environment, our priority is always
    firefighter and public safety, every fire. And this year we're
    looking at that from two different fronts, both the fire
    hazards and risks and the COVID hazard and risks. And we're
    asking what can we do to reduce that risk and reduce exposure.
    Each team is working to adapt to the new environment. We're
    developing and sharing best management practices through weekly
    calls and updates and lessons learned.
        Just yesterday we met with the Southwest Team who is
    assigned to the Sawtooth Fire in Arizona. We share their after-
    action review findings, and we just take that knowledge in
    every fire to improve on where we started. We've conducted
    simulation training to address COVID-related issues that we may
    be faced with in fire camps. We've practiced and tested the use
    of virtual platforms in lieu of our standard, large group
    meetings and briefings, and we've adopted the ``Module of One''
    concept through the family unit where each section is a stand-
    alone unit. Part of our strategy in our strategic planning
    process will focus on development of strategies and
    alternatives that use tactics with the focus of reducing
    exposure, not only to wildland fire, but also to hazards of
    COVID.
        Some of the challenges that we're going to be facing this
    year and one of them is the very real issue of a reduced number
    of resources and responders that make up our incident
    management teams. Part of this is due to local government using
    their responders, who traditionally go with us, as part of the
    COVID response and there's the fears of if they respond out of
    their community, the quarantine requirements involved with
    that. There's high-risk category members on our teams. A lot of
    our teams are made up of retirees. They come back each season
    to augment our workforce during busy seasons, and they're
    evaluating the safety of their response this summer.
        This year there's an emphasis on initial attack which is a
    good practice in this environment, but the results are
    resources are being held back to support that mission. We have
    seen some inconsistencies regarding direction when it comes to
    testing and PPE requirements, and this provides some challenges
    in messaging of our firefighters. We've seen travel times
    delayed in Alaska. We're up to four days, so the reduction of
    flights around the country is a concern.
        I'll close out by saying I'm really honored to be here and
    truly appreciate the opportunity to testify today. I speak for
    myself and many of the ICs I've worked with this spring, and
    I'll tell you there's no one saying we can't do this. They're
    just asking and working on how we can do this safely. So I want
    to thank you for your support and working with us to ensure we
    are prepared for this season. I thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. McDonald follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. McDonald. We certainly
    appreciate those words.
        Let's now wrap up the panel with comments from Mr. George
    Geissler from the Washington State Forestry Division.

      STATEMENT OF GEORGE GEISSLER, WASHINGTON STATE FORESTER ON
         BEHALF OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF STATE FORESTERS

        Mr. Geissler. Good morning, Chairman Murkowski, Ranking
    Member Manchin and members of the Committee. I appreciate the
    opportunity to speak with you today and submit written
    testimony as this Committee examines the outlook for the
    remainder of the 2020 fire year, the complex issues surrounding
    wildland fire management and the unique challenges presented by
    the COVID-19 pandemic. NASF represents the state forestry
    agencies in all 50 states, eight U.S. territories and the
    District of Columbia. These agencies provide a significant
    portion of the overall wildland fire suppression effort
    nationally in terms of resources, personnel, capacity and
    funds. As was stated earlier, just last year there were 50,477
    wildland fires that burned nearly 4.7 million acres across all
    jurisdictions. State forestry and local fire service responded
    to the majority of those wildfires, 79 percent.
        This year emergency responders across the U.S. are impacted
    by COVID-19. Many state forestry agencies have been engaged to
    varying degrees since early March supporting response efforts
    alongside of our state emergency managers, health departments,
    fire service and National Guard. Some of these state agencies
    were also involved in fighting wildfires during this same
    period. COVID-19 is posing significant challenges for wildland
    fire professionals. Local and volunteer firefighters have been
    overwhelmed by COVID-19 response. Some wildland fire agencies
    struggled to hire and training for firefighters has been
    difficult. We lost valuable time to conduct hazard risk
    reduction work and initially there was a lack of understanding
    regarding how to manage wildland fires during the pandemic.
    State and federal agencies have developed operating procedures
    for suppressing wildfires while reducing wildfire exposure to
    COVID-19.
        You have heard from the previous speakers and can find in
    my written testimony how an effort managed by the National
    Multi-Agency Coordinating Group has established a foundation of
    baseline protocols and best management practices. This has not
    been easy, nor is it complete. Protocols have been laid out as
    living documents and are expected to be improved throughout the
    year as we learn what is working and what does not through
    after-action reviews done by our firefighters. We are building
    a bridge as we cross it.
        On the fire line we cannot be distracted and must maintain
    our focus on the ever-present danger and risk of wildland fire.
    COVID-19 does not change these dangers and we cannot jeopardize
    safety in attempts to lower COVID risk. If something changes
    one risk for another, we must figure out better protocols.
    There are literally hundreds of best management practices
    developed relating to the logistics of fire alone such as
    camps, firefighter feeding and care. We're implementing
    strategies such as physical distancing on fire lines and in
    camps and we've identified COVID-19 PPE requirements. We've
    also worked to evaluate suppression strategies to further limit
    firefighter exposure. We look to the potential of more
    dispersed, strategically placed crews but we also know that
    rapid detection and initial attack to keep fires small is the
    best way to minimize the number of personnel assigned to a
    specific fire. To accomplish this, aviation resources are
    critical. Both state and federal agencies are increasing their
    number of on-call and exclusive-use fixed wing and motor
    aircraft.
        We appreciate the Committee holding this hearing and the
    opportunity to highlight the coordination and cooperation of
    the interagency planning efforts to address wildland fire
    amidst the COVID-19 pandemic this fire year. We're encouraged
    by this Committee's leadership and advocacy efforts with the
    Administration to help secure PPE for federal, state and local
    wildland firefighters. NASF continues to advocate that
    emergency supplemental funding to state fire assistance and
    volunteer fire assistance is the ideal mechanism for ensuring
    that this need is met quickly and easily. Because the funding
    assistance that was provided in the CARES Act is not available
    for state wildland firefighters and funding available to local
    and volunteer firefighters is through a competitive grant
    process--significant time and resources to apply. NASF has also
    requested funding from Congress to states to assist agencies in
    securing wildland aviation contracts. Also, in the long-term,
    we urge you to consider the effects of COVID-19 pandemic is
    having on state budgets. It's critical that emergency response
    capabilities that are provided by state forestry agencies for
    all hazard response is maintained and not diminished by
    impending cuts to state budgets.
        Thank you for your time and the opportunity to speak with
    the Committee. I look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Geissler follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Geissler, and thank you to all
    of our witnesses here today.
        You have all spoken to the challenges that we are dealing
    with. Firefighting on our public lands and our wildlands is
    challenging enough, and then you interject the COVID pandemic
    and the challenges that we face. How is it possible to even do
    social distancing when you are out battling a fire on the lines
    there? How do you transport our firefighters when you have to
    move them in small aircraft or if they are on a road in
    vehicles? These are challenges that are daunting to say the
    least.
        I want to ask a question that goes to the heart of the
    testing issue because I have long maintained that the way that
    this country is going to get back to work, the way we are going
    to get our kids into school is when we can really have the
    ability to test and give some certainty and certainty means
    that more than one test and you are done. In Alaska we have
    been pretty tough with our quarantine requirements to this day.
    We have a 14-day quarantine policy when you fly into the State
    of Alaska. They just changed that mandate last Saturday, I
    believe it was, to allow that if you have tested negative
    within 72 hours before you land in Alaska, you can come in and
    you are free to move about, but you are required to get a
    secondary test within a short period after you have arrived in
    the state. If you are not able to get a test before you come,
    there is a testing station at our major airports and you will
    get a voucher then for a second test. We are taking this very
    seriously.
        For many of our rural communities the seriousness is more
    than just following CDC guidelines. They are still motivated by
    the fear that they saw in 1918 and are still retelling the
    stories of whole villages that were literally wiped out. Many
    of our wildland fires in Alaska are out in these rural areas
    where you have these communities that have effectively locked
    themselves in. They have said, we don't want anyone coming in
    from not only the outside of Alaska but within the state to the
    point where mail supplies and grocery supplies--they are saying
    hold off on them. We are hunkering down because we are
    concerned for our safety.
        So this has been a very, very significant issue for us in
    our communities where they are fearful of the virus, but now
    they are fearful about firefighters who may be coming into the
    region who may be carrying the virus. The question that I have,
    and I will direct this to you, Norm. In Alaska, we have the
    testing requirements that we have put in place and I appreciate
    in your testimony, you didn't note it necessarily in your oral
    testimony here but in your written testimony, you talk about
    the protocols. If you can just briefly address some of the
    issues that you have faced as you have put these into place
    working with your federal partners to establish this protocol.
    Then I would like to turn to you, Mr. Phipps, and you, Ms.
    Kaster, about what can be done outside of the State of Alaska
    to encourage more testing, whether we have legal considerations
    that play into this. I would like to understand why what we are
    doing in Alaska can't be replicated in other parts.
        Mr. McDonald, if you can just speak to what you are doing,
    how you are doing it and the challenges that you have faced in
    getting these protocols in place.
        Mr. McDonald. Okay and yeah, you addressed a lot of the
    reasons why we work so hard to initiate testing protocol in
    Alaska and a lot of that credit goes to our Department of
    Health and Social Services. They're doing that, not only for
    fire, but for our fisheries industry, oil and mining. So
    they've worked very hard to set up this process.
        On the fire side of it, so what that would look like is an
    individual's resource order attached to an order will be the
    requirements to check in and do a self-screen before they
    depart. There's an app which puts your departure time and where
    you're flying into. At both airports in Alaska, both Fairbanks
    and Anchorage are testing facilities through a contract where
    firefighters will get tested as they get off the airplane.
    We're putting them into a quarantine for the 24 hours it takes
    to get a test result back and we're seeing faster times now.
    They've got new technology where we're seeing results back
    within five hours which is, for a fire response, even better.
        Once there's a negative result on that test, that
    firefighter will go about their assignment. It's just part of
    the process. So the testing is just one part. We're still
    following social distancing, the hygiene, CDC requirements.
    We're still wearing PPE, the masks, but that's just a very
    important part of what we're doing to help reduce that risk to
    our firefighters. You brought up some of the challenges we've
    had, I mentioned it, is the inconsistency with some of the
    guidance or direction some of our partner agencies are
    receiving on the federal side.
        So we, for Alaska, we call that, we have that a requirement
    and some of the other agencies are feeling they cannot call
    that a requirement, they can say, strongly recommend which
    contradicts our feeling of what we need to do to provide for
    firefighters and public safety in Alaska through testing.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. McDonald.
        I am well over my time, but Mr. Phipps or Ms. Kaster, if
    you can just very quickly speak to why you have this
    inconsistency in guidance here and what more can be done to
    ensure that we are able to encourage a level of testing.
        Mr. Phipps. I think the interagency community is highly
    interested in pursuing a robust testing capacity. And as we
    know, it's very decentralized to local health units and varies
    from state to state but for the purposes of an average fire,
    like he said, in a rural area, we're going to need more of a
    mobile capacity that could come to the fire, screen people on
    entry. There's a lot of people that go back and forth and
    during and on exit, before they go home and we just haven't
    seen that capacity even though we are highly interested in it
    because it's--and I think one of the--it's a strength, but also
    a constraint that the testing assumption is it's all local and
    local varies.
        The Chairman. So as I understand, you are not averse to
    doing the testing, it is a matter of capacity at this point in
    time.
        Mr. Phipps. Yes, and we're very interested in whatever the
    Committee could do to help make that national robust capacity a
    reality.
        The Chairman. Let me turn to Senator Manchin.
        Thank you.
        Senator Manchin. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
        Yesterday evening I introduced a bill with Ranking Member
    Udall to make the workers' compensation process less onerous
    for firefighters. I understand often several thousand people
    live closely together in large command posts that usually pop
    up to staff and support operations on a large wildfire. It
    creates a unique scenario for these firefighters and would
    increase the risk of transmission. Our bill would make sure
    that these firefighters are covered. I understand the
    Department of Labor has not made it possible for most
    firefighters to meet the current Department of Labor
    requirements to receive workers' compensation should they
    contract COVID-19 during this fire season. So it has been a big
    concern of firefighters.
        Mr. Phipps and Ms. Kaster, do you support our efforts to
    ensure that medical expenses of firefighters would be covered
    should they contract COVID-19 this fire season?
        Mr. Phipps. Yes, Forest Service, I know the Interagency
    Environment supports that. We are concerned about the--it's not
    exactly clear from the firefighters, looking through the
    firefighter's lens, but we're highly interested in anything the
    Committee could do to help strengthen or add clarity to the
    expectations because we're, we clearly think that if somebody
    comes down with COVID-19, they ought to be covered under the
    Department.
        Senator Manchin. All we are saying is basically during this
    period of COVID-19 pandemic going on and fire season going on
    that people should basically have access to workers' comp which
    sometimes they don't because of the stringent requirements they
    don't meet. But with this unusual situation, you are saying you
    need clarity. You cannot do that by just Executive Order or----
        Mr. Phipps. Well, we, right now, we've been told by DOL,
    Department of Labor, that they will consider each case on a
    case-by-case basis, that's our current understanding.
        Senator Manchin. Okay. Well, we are going to do what we can
    in this Committee to make sure we have clarity on that, that
    these people do not have to wait and they do not have to
    struggle and the families do not have to worry. It is
    ridiculous.
        Mr. Phipps. We appreciate that.
        Senator Manchin. And you are told by DOL so, maybe we can
    get to DOL. We will get them here.
        Also, Ms. Kaster, can you tell me how you all came to the
    decision on what you are using instead of testing? As I
    understand you are not mandating testing, but I know in Alaska,
    they test twice coming in.
        Ms. Kaster. Thank you for that question, Senator.
        So the Medical and Public Health Advisory Team guidance at
    this time has contemplated that question and a lot of it comes
    down to, you know, in the State of Alaska they are using their
    resources for the purposes of testing. What I will say is
    firefighter safety is truly paramount to the Department and as
    the fire season continues, we're going to continue to explore
    ways to better protect our firefighters. So that guidance will
    continue to evolve over time.
        Senator Manchin. So you are saying because of cost you
    don't have the resources to do the testing?
        Ms. Kaster. That's not accurate, Senator. It's just at this
    time because of some CDC guidance, the testing of asymptomatic
    employees is not recommended.
        Senator Manchin. That does not make any sense at all. We
    are asking people to go into a work environment and not knowing
    if they are going to be associated with people that have been
    infected or not.
        Ms. Kaster. So we do temperature checks and other
    recommendations consistent with CDC guidance.
        Senator Manchin. Can you do testing? Would you all change
    your requirement to do that? We are asking you because these
    people are put in very, very difficult situations.
        Ms. Kaster. We agree, Senator, that firefighter safety is
    critical, and so we'd be happy to have further discussions. As
    I said, we're going to need to continue to be vigilant and
    active----
        Senator Manchin. I mean, the fire season has already
    started.
        Ms. Kaster. Absolutely. And we have seen, you know,
    outbreaks in various areas including in the Southwest and we're
    taking those lessons learned to adapt----
        Senator Manchin. So you are the Acting Director, right?
        Ms. Kaster. I'm the Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary,
    Senator.
        Senator Manchin. Okay. So who do we need to get to?
        Ms. Kaster. We're happy to work with you at the Department.
    I stand ready.
        Senator Manchin. I think you are going to find out if we
    had a vote today it would be unanimous, bipartisan unanimous,
    mandatory testing.
        Ms. Kaster. We look forward to working with you.
        Senator Manchin. What do you mean by working with us?
        Ms. Kaster. We'll be happy to----
        Senator Manchin. If we are telling you to test, can you
    test?
        Ms. Kaster. We do have testing available, yes, Senator.
        Senator Manchin. We are saying that we want mandatory
    testing for every firefighter going into fire season.
        Ms. Kaster. We'd like to discuss that further with the
    medical professionals at CDC as well. It's an interagency
    effort, Senator.
        Senator Manchin. Okay, well, that is not acceptable, but I
    understand. I do not want to put you on a point. We have to
    work this out. This is ridiculous.
        I want to go to one more thing, real quick. Western
    University, my alma mater, received an emergency National
    Science Foundation Grant to design and manufacture personal
    equipment, personal protective equipment, PPE, from wood
    derivatives. I am happy to report last week the team finalized
    its design, acquired the needed material and announced that
    they are ready to begin making these PPEs. They will be using
    3D printers to make locally-sourced, biodegradable, medical
    grade face masks. They are aiming to have the manufacturing
    process optimized later in the year.
        I know the Forest Service Forest Products Lab has a group
    that specializes in commercializing new products. So, Mr.
    Phipps, is it possible or can you or will you, with the Forest
    Products Lab, be able to come alongside the team at WVU and
    what they have been able to accomplish and be ready to go with
    this?
        Mr. Phipps. Yes, it's very possible, and we'd be glad to do
    it.
        Senator Manchin. Have you all heard about this process,
    what they are doing?
        Mr. Phipps. Yes, I'm not familiar with the specifics, but
    I've heard----
        Senator Manchin. Can I connect you all?
        Mr. Phipps. Yes.
        Senator Manchin. Okay. Okay.
        With that, let me just further--Madam Chairman, if I may?
        The Chairman. Go ahead, Senator.
        Senator Manchin. The testing for the firefighters, is
    this--I mean, at this horrible time that we are going through,
    I think that every member up here would like to have that
    happen. What can we do so they have clearance and clarity to
    what we want done as a Committee?
        The Chairman. Well this is something that I do think we
    need to really drill down on. It was my understanding that when
    you have designated, specifically designated, critical workers
    and our firefighters are definitely critical workers, that that
    does put them in a different category because the very demands
    of their job limit their ability to follow those other CDC
    guidelines which is social distancing, washing hands. You go
    out fighting fires, there is no place to be washing your hands.
    You can put as much hand sanitizer on as you want.
        Senator Manchin. Let us ask Mr. McDonald because in Alaska
    they are testing twice. They must think it is, I mean, the
    living conditions in a forest fire environment. Mr. McDonald, I
    know I am over my time, but can you explain to us what you all
    do and tell us about the living conditions people are in and
    why you think it is imperative to know if a person has been
    affected or not before you put them in that condition, in that
    situation?
        Mr. McDonald. Yeah, the living conditions are like I
    described. They're very rustic, limited hygiene facilities,
    social distancing is difficult, although we are working toward
    that. For myself and the health people I work with in Alaska,
    we just felt this was a very important step in the firefighter
    safety and public safety process. We use a lot of tools in this
    job to keep our firefighters safe. I look at this as just
    another piece of the puzzle for this year during the COVID.
        Senator Manchin. So you all thought it was imperative that,
    basically, you tested before you put workers together working
    in that type of environment?
        Mr. McDonald. That is just one part of the process,
    correct.
        The Chairman. Senator Manchin, your time is up.
        Senator Manchin. I know.
        The Chairman. But I do think that this is an important
    discussion for us. Alaska is a pretty big state. We had half of
    the forest fires last year. We have learned that very often in
    order to fight our fires we have to bring our own resources to
    bear, but we do bring in, and thankfully so, so many crews from
    the Lower 48. I understand the challenges of interagency and
    the fact that we do have our respective states that might have
    different views on testing, but it does seem to me that if I am
    going to agree, volunteer to be a firefighter, I want to know
    that I am going to be as safe in Arizona and Washington as I am
    in Alaska when I am putting my life on the line.
        Senator Manchin. I think we need to get a letter. We need
    to get with Dave Bernhardt. We need to get Rob Wallace, and we
    need to make sure this is cleared up. This is ridiculous. It
    really is. I am not chastising anybody, but for Alaska--
    firefighting is firefighting. Living conditions are the same
    everywhere no matter where you go, and for them to take a
    position that is so, I think, more beneficial to the
    firefighters themselves and protecting them and for these
    officials saying, well, CDC guidelines . . .
        CDC guidelines are based on when we have not had enough
    tests. This government will not pay for the testing that needs
    to be done. They won't mobilize. They won't basically
    commercialize the Defense Production Act in order for us to
    have the tests that are needed. We are asking people to open up
    and go back to business and there is not a person in West
    Virginia that wants to go back to the workplace unless they
    know the person they are working with is not affected.
        It is just very difficult. It is very difficult. But we
    will get with it. We will clear this up, not to put you--thank
    you very much, and I did not mean to put you on the spot.
        The Chairman. I don't know whether Senator McSally is still
    on the line, but if you are, Senator, you are next.
        [No response.]
        Is she there, Darla? Okay, it does not appear that she is
    there. If she comes back on, we will put her into the queue,
    but let's turn to Senator Wyden.
        Senator Wyden. Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I want
    to begin by saying I think you and Senator Manchin are making a
    lot of extraordinarily important points. I have been listening
    to what the agencies are saying in Washington, DC, this
    morning, not the folks out in the field, and they are talking
    about exploring these critical issues. They are using the words
    ``considering,'' ``consulting.'' I do not see the urgency
    needed to respond in a uniform, a practical way to what you and
    Senator Manchin are talking about. So I really appreciate you
    are trying to point out the fire season is happening now. COVID
    is happening now and the idea that we are going to hear about a
    lot of considering and consulting just is not going to protect
    our courageous firefighters nor is it going to protect folks in
    the rural West.
        Obviously, getting to my remarks, because of this
    unprecedented one-two punch to the rural West, a pandemic virus
    and a potentially brutal wildfire season, on April 30th I
    joined ten other Western Senators asking for specific answers
    to the kinds of questions that are being raised here. We have
    to have answers for rural residents. We have to have answers
    for these courageous firefighters. And late yesterday, the
    agency responded.
        Now I am glad that they decided they would respond to 11
    United States Senators, but they used much of the same language
    that we have heard, Madam Chair, this morning. We heard, for
    example, that they wanted to coordinate with state and local
    partners. So back again to these kind of word salad kind of
    ideas that really don't go to whether you are going to actually
    get the work done that my colleagues are talking about. In
    fact, I was recently briefed in Oregon by the local partners
    and they did not give me any indication that there is direct,
    on-the-ground coordination between DC health and emergency
    services programs and the front lines of Oregon forestry.
        In fact, Madam Chair, Ms. Kaster, at your agency, the
    Department of the Interior, when asked to commit to maintaining
    longstanding cooperation with the Oregon Department of Forestry
    in fighting fires, Secretary Bernhardt just said, ``no.''
        Madam Chair, I would like to make that written response a
    part of the record----
        The Chairman. It will be included.
        Senator Wyden. ----at this point.
        [Written response from Secretary Bernhardt follows.]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Wyden. So my first question then is for you, Mr.
    Phipps. What specifically is the Forest Service going to do to
    really address these issues, these issues of testing and
    protection for the firefighters in rural communities using the
    Centers for Disease Control and the Federal Emergency
    Management Agency and do it with people on the ground quickly--
    I am talking about within the next couple of weeks? What is
    going to be done to get that help to folks on the ground
    quickly?
        Mr. Phipps. Thank you for the question. I think it's a
    great question.
        To date, our Interagency Medical Committee has actually
    advised against testing. I know that runs contrary to a lot of
    people's understanding of why that would be the case, and
    they're concerned that testing is a snapshot in time so that's
    why you have to do it multiple times and its accuracy is----
        Senator Wyden. Mr. Phipps, we know that argument. So what
    then is going to be done to protect the firefighters and these
    communities, specifically?
        Mr. Phipps. We're relying on the social distancing and
    personal protective equipment, hygiene--moduling is one concept
    that had been mentioned. To date, without having this, what I
    had mentioned, a robust capacity that's actually mobile that
    can come to a fire camp, you know, we're concerned that that
    could easily overwhelm local health facilities. So we have to
    do something, as the Interagency, more----
        Senator Wyden. You need to tell us what that something is
    within a week, and you need to get it to the Chair and the
    Ranking Member because to just hear about ``exploring'' and
    ``doing something'' and ``maybe we will look at this'' is just
    not acceptable to the people who give us an election
    certificate.
        [Information regarding plans for firefighter and community
    protection during the fire season follows.]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Wyden. I have one last point that I am going to
    make on my way out. It is for you, Ms. Kaster. Americans have
    come from every corner of our country to demand justice for the
    murder of George Floyd by the Minneapolis Police. Last week the
    country looked on in horror as the Park Police and other
    federal law enforcement unleashed brutally excessive force on
    peaceful and lawful demonstrators. This was, of course, to
    clear the way for the President to have this photo op at St.
    Johns.
        My question is I can't find anybody who will take
    responsibility for what was done. I would like to have you, the
    Department, tell me by the end of the week whether Secretary
    Bernhardt gave the order to clear the protestors out of the
    park. I would like to have that to me, in writing, by the end
    of the week.
        I am over my time, Madam Chair. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Wyden.
        Next, Senator Cantwell.
        Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to
    the witnesses for being here in such an important time. I
    definitely want to join in on the concerns both the, well
    actually, everybody has voiced so far--the Chair, the Ranking
    Member and Senator Wyden. There is a lot to be done to get
    ready for this fire season. The reason why we want to get the
    issues ironed out, particularly as it relates to COVID but also
    as to what are we going to use in the best and greatest
    technology, is that the National Interagency Fire Center issued
    the Significant Wildland Fire Potential Outlook for the fire
    season and for the State of Washington, and I would say the
    whole Pacific Northwest, we are in the bullseye of what is
    likely to be a very challenging fire season.
        Now, the map shows, basically, most of the Pacific
    Northwest, maybe not including Puget Sound, as being the
    epicenter of this year's fire season.
        [The August 2020 map follows:]
        [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Cantwell. So the only worse map that I think I saw
    on that is the map that is next to it, and maybe it could be
    pulled out a little bit, is the 2015 fire season map and we
    know that that ended up being one of the worst fire seasons in
    the history of our state.
        [The August 2015 map follows:]
        [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Cantwell. Those two maps look very similar as it
    relates to the Northwest being in the epicenter.
        So we need to get ready. We need to get ready. We need to
    continue the focus that the legislation that myself and Senator
    Gardner passed related to technology that is used so that we
    can detect fires earlier, and we need to use the satellite
    technology that is there and available but I am not sure is
    being processed through the Forest Service. So I want to know
    what is it going to take for us to get that information and
    technology used?
        I guess, Mr. Geissler, I will start with you. The National
    Weather Service satellite technology can detect fires at an
    early stage and that is one of the ways, but a very good way,
    for us to find fire starts right away.
        And Deputy Chief Phipps and Deputy Assistant Secretary
    Kaster, is the Forest Service and Department of the Interior
    aware of this weather service satellite technology and are
    states using it? Is there something else that the Forest
    Service needs to take this technology and get it deployed for
    this fire season? I can just tell you, those two maps with
    basically the Pacific Northwest, of Washington, Oregon, Idaho
    and Montana at the epicenter, we already know what happened in
    2015. It was horrific. And if that is where we are headed, we
    need to get this fixed and we need the best technology to stop
    fires as soon as they start.
        I don't know who can help by jumping in with this satellite
    technology.
        Mr. Phipps. I'm aware of the satellite technology, but I'm
    not aware of how it's being currently used. There's something
    that is, that we're developing that should be available in the
    next couple weeks. It's called WildfireSAFE to try to get a
    better idea on the conditions, how much potential an individual
    fire would have so we can better triage putting resources,
    putting them in the right mix at the right time and the right
    place to keep the fires that have the potential from getting
    large. But I will check into the new satellite technology and
    get back with you.
        [Information regarding satellite technology for fires
    follows.]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Cantwell. Mr. Geissler?
        Mr. Geissler. Senator Cantwell, I will say that that is
    actually a project that's very near and dear to my heart,
    because the early use of that was actually through the National
    Severe Storms Lab while I was still State Forester in Oklahoma
    and it's being used very effectively with the Oklahoma Forest
    Service right now. It is technology whereby the Weather Service
    can detect the fires and notify the state fire folks where
    they're located or where the potential is and it happens every
    five minutes that they're looking at it. And basically, funding
    toward the National Weather Service to pull this out would
    probably not be that substantial in order to be able to bring
    it to bear further across the country.
        There are other states that are utilizing this technology
    and, in fact, I believe, Colorado is one of those states that
    has just brought that online.
        Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
        Ms. Kaster?
        Ms. Kaster. Senator, I'd be happy to get back to you as to
    DOI's use of the technology.
        But what I will say is that the Department has made it a
    priority to implement the Dingell Act which includes other
    technological requirements for DOI, and we're going to continue
    to do so.
        Senator Cantwell. Well, I just cannot emphasize this
    enough. We know that we are in the bullseye. We know what is
    coming. We want to be better prepared, and we want the
    technology to help us put out fires as soon as they start.
        Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cantwell. You mentioned
    the improvements within the Dingell Act and one of those that
    we have been engaged in is the federal smoke monitoring which,
    again, is important from a health/safety perspective.
        Let's go to Senator Daines next.
        Senator Daines. Thank you, Chair Murkowski, and I want to
    thank you all for testifying and your leadership to protect the
    health and well-being of Americans while still meeting land
    management objectives during this pandemic.
        This pandemic coincided with the season dedicated to
    vegetation management, and wildfire preparation has now bled
    into wildfire season. Emergency response are already mobilized
    and exhausted so fighting the pandemic will be stretched thin
    this wildfire season. The COVID-19 pandemic has introduced new
    risks and challenges to wildland fire management, and I look
    forward to this timely discussion.
        In Montana 6.3 million acres of forest is at high or very
    high wildfire hazard potential--1.6 million of those acres are
    in close proximity to populated areas. To make matters worse,
    as Senator Cantwell just showed on the map there, Montana is
    expecting above average wildfire conditions this summer.
        Mr. Phipps and Ms. Kaster, I understand that COVID-19
    restrictions delayed fuel treatment projects. What are your
    agencies doing to make up for lost time and reduce fuel loads
    before we get into the middle of this fire season which looks
    like it may be a tough one?
        We will start with Mr. Phipps and then we will go to Ms.
    Kaster.
        Mr. Phipps. Thank you for the question. I really agree that
    all these fuel treatments that the taxpayers have invested in
    are very critical for reducing risk particular to communities.
    We're trying to focus our treatments to actually reduce
    wildfire exposure to communities and yes, it's true that early
    in the pandemic that we paused some of our treatments,
    particularly in the Southeast, and now we are ramping up and on
    track for meeting this year's targets. It'll be challenging
    with the lost time, but that's what we're endeavoring to do. We
    believe that we're going to meet our timber target this year.
        Senator Daines. Alright, thanks.
        Ms. Kaster?
        Ms. Kaster. Thank you, Senator.
        The Department of the Interior continued forward its fuel
    treatments during COVID-19. In fact, in Montana we were able to
    do prescribed burns earlier this year. And so, we have made it
    an effort to continue that effort as it is critical to being
    prepared for the fire season, and we will continue our fuel
    treatments efforts even after the fire season concludes.
        Senator Daines. Last week the President signed an Executive
    Order directing agencies to expedite certain projects in
    response to this. What are your agencies doing to expedite
    management projects during this national emergency, and what
    can Congress do to help in that effort?
        Mr. Phipps. Currently we're under--we're reviewing that
    Executive Order and looking for opportunities for how to take
    advantage of it in the pursuit of treating, making our projects
    easier to accomplish.
        Ms. Kaster. We're also reviewing the Executive Order, but
    what I will say is the Department has already taken some
    proactive actions that are consistent with that direction
    including we recently finalized NEPA related to the Great Basin
    fuel breaks and we've been looking at creating more
    efficiencies within our existing authorities.
        Senator Daines. Mr. Phipps, in your testimony you write
    that 87 percent of fuel treatment projects have changed
    wildfire behavior. Clearly active management is the best tool
    in our tool belt to reduce the risk of wildfire. I am working
    on some bipartisan legislation that will ensure the subject
    matter experts in your agency have the ability to pursue these
    science-based projects without unnecessary challenge. My
    question is while some forest management activities were
    stalled during the pandemic the onslaught of lawsuits were not.
    There is a misconception that serial litigants only go after
    commercial timber projects. I am aware of the one Cottonwood-
    related lawsuit that has held up two time-sensitive hazardous
    fuel projects for nearly ten years. This is also something I am
    pursuing in legislation that I will be introducing very soon.
        Mr. Phipps, how does the onslaught of litigation make our
    communities more vulnerable to wildfires?
        Mr. Phipps. It definitely slows things down. We pursue--
    it's very challenging to operate at a rate fast enough to make
    a difference and the lawsuits do slow us down and we're looking
    at various strategies, including making a better effort at our
    NEPA and streamlining that to move our work right along.
        Senator Daines. I have one more question I am going to slip
    in here before I wrap up my time here.
        I am encouraged that both agencies are adopting an initial
    aerial attack strategy to minimize the need to bring large
    amounts of firefighters together reflecting the challenge, of
    course, with COVID-19. It is my understanding, however, that
    bureaucratic processes can limit the agency's ability to
    respond quickly to national emergencies like the one we face
    and increase the aerial fleet as appropriate. In fact, there is
    a Montana company with new resources that could increase
    firefighting capabilities by 15 percent but was told the
    contracting timeline will not allow for those resources to be
    used this season. This is hitting us on two fronts. Without a
    contract the company will have to let dozens of folks go during
    a time when the economic conditions are already tough. We won't
    have these critical resources putting out wildfires, protecting
    Montana communities this fire season, particularly when you saw
    the chart that Senator Cantwell put up there in terms of the
    forecast which does not look very good.
        My question is, I want to ensure your agency has the
    necessary tools to respond and fight fires as emergencies. Does
    the Forest Service have any flexibilities or the ability to
    fast-track CWN (Call When Needed) contracts to ensure robust
    aerial fleet during the pandemic?
        Mr. Phipps. I believe we do, Senator, and right now, I
    believe that just about any air tanker that meets performance
    and safety requirements is under some kind of contract either
    from the Forest Service or Department of the Interior or the
    state, but we'd be happy to look at the vendor that you're
    looking at and look into it further.
        Senator Daines. Ms. Kaster, about that?
        Ms. Kaster. I share my colleague's sentiments. We believe
    we have sufficient air resources, and I'm not familiar of the
    example that you cite but am happy to look into it further.
        Senator Daines. I can follow up with you on that as well
    just looking at how we are going to have to have all hands on
    deck here coming into this fire season, and we would like to
    chat more with you about that if you would. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Daines.
        Senator Daines. Thanks.
        The Chairman. Senator Heinrich.
        Senator Heinrich. Ms. Kaster, going back to Senator Wyden's
    question, who authorized the use of Park Police to clear
    protestors?
        Ms. Kaster. Senator, I'm here to discuss the Department's
    management of the wildfire program. What I'd say is that the
    jurisdiction of the Park Police falls under the National Park
    Service, and they'd be happy to answer those questions.
        Senator Heinrich. Well, let the record show that was a non-
    answer. Do you know the answer to that question?
        Ms. Kaster. No, I do not.
        Senator Heinrich. Okay.
        Mr. Phipps, you said that you were concerned that you could
    overwhelm local testing capacity, but I would point out that
    until my office reached out to the Forest Service, the Forest
    Service had not actually coordinated with the New Mexico
    Department of Health to figure out a protocol for being able to
    manage the testing process as I would point out, six wildfires
    have now started in the state and are actively burning. So what
    is the status of the testing guidance between the Southwest
    Coordinating Group and the New Mexico Department of Health and
    when will that be finalized?
        Mr. Phipps. Earlier I agreed to look into it by the end of
    the week. I would agree, we do need a better, more
    comprehensive direction about that. We've been following the
    advice of the Interagency Medical Center, a committee that says
    don't rely on it. It doesn't mean that we can't, on a state-by-
    state or county-by-county basis, have--try to make something
    happen.
        Senator Heinrich. Well, I would point out that our Governor
    has not taken the hands-off approach that you have articulated
    with regard to testing. It is one of the reasons why our
    numbers have been manageable, and I think that she would be
    very interested in making sure that we are not importing cases
    into the state in the midst of fire season in an environment
    where community spread is almost assured.
        At the end of the week, I would like to know that that
    guidance has been finalized because we need it now. Fires are
    burning now, and we are responding to them now.
        Mr. Phipps. I understand.
        [Information regarding finalized guidance follows.]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Heinrich. Is there a unified PPE procurement
    strategy for your departments or is that being done, sort of,
    region-by-region and team-by-team?
        Mr. Phipps. We have a national strategy trying to get our
    caches supplied for distribution and also each region and local
    area are pursuing PPE as well. So it's both.
        Senator Heinrich. I guess the reason why the hazard of, I
    think, both is what we saw in the midst of March and April
    where demand was very high and oftentimes FEMA and individual
    governors, individual states, were actually, sort of, pitted
    against each other and ended up bidding up the cost of things
    like an N-95 mask to unreasonable levels. And so, I would urge
    you to look at the greatest amount of coordination and, sort
    of, one-stop approach to that, maybe through the National
    Interagency Fire Center because I worry that you are going to
    end up paying more and getting less product if you find
    yourself in the same situation that many of us found ourselves
    in just a few weeks ago.
        I have also heard from individual constituents who work in
    wildland firefighting that they are concerned that they and
    their teams are not being provided with sufficient PPE. Are
    fire personnel currently limited in the number of masks, for
    example, that they are allowed per week?
        Mr. Phipps. I'd say no. We have in our Interagency
    Checklist for Mobilization--either ordering or receiving--
    adequate PPE is one of the requirements. And so, if they don't
    have adequate equipment, personal protective equipment, they're
    not going to be on the fire.
        Senator Heinrich. Okay. I will follow up, because I am
    definitely hearing that from some constituents.
        Madam Chair, I think I am out of time, but I want to say
    how much I appreciate this hearing, because I think we have our
    work cut out for us.
        The Chairman. Yes, I think we do and it is not only looking
    at the maps and the intensity of what we might see but it is
    how we balance the other threat that we are dealing with right
    now that makes it even more challenging. So thank you for that.
        Let's go virtually to Senator McSally.
        Senator McSally. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate it.
        Right now, Arizona is in the midst of dealing with both the
    pandemic and the wildfire season. The Sawtooth Fire near Gold
    Canyon, Arizona, is the Southwest region's first Type 1 fire of
    the season and the first major fire during the pandemic. The
    fire is now, thankfully, 80 percent contained and I want to say
    thanks to the firefighters and the first responders who led
    this effort and developed COVID mitigation strategies that can
    be implemented around the country. While Coronavirus is a new
    challenge, for sure, for our wildland firefighters, this is a
    group of professionals who are well versed in risk assessment
    and mitigation. Because Arizona's fire season starts earlier
    than most of the rest of the West, our fire crews have already
    been successful fighting wildfires while implementing COVID-19
    mitigation measures where possible.
        As the fire season progresses, I just want to encourage the
    debriefs and the lessons learned from our crews in Arizona will
    help those around the West better prepare successfully to
    battle wildfires. I just really encourage the Forest Service to
    reach out and get those lessons learned so that they can be
    used for others.
        One of the most effective ways to reduce the wildfire risk
    over the long haul, though, is to improve the health of our
    forest. In Arizona, the Four Forest Restoration Initiative, or
    4FRI, is looking to do just that by mechanically thinning more
    than a million acres of national forest. But in order to reach
    this target the project needs to rapidly increase production.
    At hearings in this Committee more than a year ago I questioned
    Forest Service Chief Vicki Christiansen about the delays with
    the 4FRI Phase 2 RFP and how the Forest Service planned to
    implement the reforms outlined in my Forestry bill and when we
    could finally expect a Phase 2 contract award. Since then, we
    have had nine amendments to the RFP and months and months of
    delays. I understand the RFP solicitation finally closed on May
    12th and the Forest Service is in the review process. I am sure
    you can see from the bids you received that Arizona's logging
    industry is eager to get to work restoring our national forests
    and preventing these wildfires.
        Mr. Phipps, when can you tell me that the Forest Service
    will award this Phase 2 contract and when will the forestry
    work actually begin under Phase 2?
        Mr. Phipps. Thank you for the question.
        As I understand it, it's on track to be awarded in
    September and the work could, if conditions are appropriate,
    could begin in the fall.
        Senator McSally. Okay. I hope that to be true and the
    concern on the ground, obviously, is that the work can start
    before they start to see the winter and the snow up in the area
    that needs to be mitigated. So September is the hope and you
    think that it is on track for that timeline still?
        Mr. Phipps. Yes.
        Senator McSally. Okay, thank you.
        While much of the focus has rightly been on how the
    Coronavirus may affect the health of firefighters, the pandemic
    has impacted the wildfire seasons in other ways. The social
    distancing orders have reinvigorated America's love for the
    outdoors. As stay-at-home orders have relaxed, Americans have
    flocked to campgrounds, national forests and public lands for
    healthy, socially distant recreation. We are seeing this around
    all the amazing places we have in Arizona. Many campgrounds and
    outdoor recreation sites in Northern Arizona's Cool Pines
    reported their busiest days ever over Memorial Day weekend this
    year. In general, this is a good trend. More people outdoors
    enjoying public land and rebuilding our rural economies, but
    more people in the forest also brings increased risk of human-
    caused wildfires.
        Mr. Phipps, what are the federal foresters doing
    differently this year to encourage safe recreation on public
    lands which is greatly needed during this pandemic while
    mitigating the high wildfire risk that of more people, you
    know, we bring more people to the forest, there is a higher
    risk of human-caused fires?
        Mr. Phipps. Thank you for the question.
        What we're doing different, we've accelerated our ad
    campaign with the Smokey Bear messaging to get the word out
    that it's really important, as always, but more so in the
    pandemic to be careful with fire so we can reduce the amount of
    human starts which are the majority of fire starts, and we're
    increasing our patrols in the forest and, in some cases, where
    fire risk is at a particularly high level, we would be
    preemptively banning campfires, if needed.
        Senator McSally. Great. Thank you.
        I am out of time. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator McSally.
        Let's go to Senator Hirono, please.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Right now, it is my understanding that our fire responders
    in Hawaii have adequate PPE to protect them from COVID-19.
    However, forecasters are expecting warmer and drier conditions
    than average in Hawaii from June through September. During that
    same time, drought conditions are expected to increase,
    especially on the leeward side of the islands with above-normal
    significant fire potential. Last year, devastating fires on
    Maui burned 25,000 acres, five times the area burned in 2018.
    Also, according to the USDA Forest Service's Wildfire Risk to
    Communities Assessment, homes in Hawaii are at greater risk to
    wildfire than 92 percent of other states. While it is
    challenging enough to prepare and be ready for another busy
    fire year across the state, we also have to add on top of that
    be prepared for COVID-19.
        Mr. Phipps, right now we do not know when the next
    supplemental bill to address the impact of COVID-19 will be
    signed into law. The State Fire Assistance Program at the U.S.
    Forest Service has, to date, not received additional funds to
    purchase PPE. Thinking about Hawaii and how our fire responders
    will likely need additional equipment in the future, is there a
    way that you can still help state fire agencies, for example,
    perhaps by federal agencies sharing excess PPE with the
    departments that are shorthanded? Could that happen?
        Mr. Phipps. That's a great question, thank you.
        I believe that's possible. Through our Interagency Fire
    Center we have PPE and it's--we're in it together and if
    there's an identified need for a particular state, be it
    Hawaii, I'm sure that that could be arranged.
        Senator Hirono. That answer says to me that if we
    anticipate the need for more PPEs that we should contact your
    agency earlier rather than later so that we can be sent
    additional PPEs.
        Mr. Phipps. Yes, indeed.
        Senator Hirono. Is that right?
        Mr. Phipps. Yes, that's right and also the National
    Association of State Foresters could be helpful in that. We're
    all very interested in making sure that whatever stockpiles we
    have go to the right places at the right time.
        Senator Hirono. Yes, and as I mentioned, Hawaii is also one
    of the places where we are expecting a very busy fire season.
        Along the same lines, Ms. Kaster, are there opportunities
    for Interior to share excess PPE should state and local fire
    responders find themselves shorthanded?
        Ms. Kaster?
        Ms. Kaster. Thank you, Senator.
        Just as my colleague indicated, we coordinate the--
    coordinate all this at an interagency level so we'd be happy to
    discuss that further with you and what I would say is we're
    really committed to supporting our interagency partners, our
    states, our local entities, as we fight fire this season.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you. I am glad to know that all of
    our agencies are more than willing to lend a helping hand.
        Mr. Geissler, in Hawaii and I am sure all across the
    nation, the COVID-19 pandemic has hit state and local budgets
    very hard, and I know that increasing funding for the state and
    volunteer fire assistance programs through the Forest Service
    via any future supplemental bill could help fire responders in
    Hawaii. I also know that the National Association of State
    Foresters also support this effort. Can you expand on the
    importance of assisting state and local fire responders,
    especially amid all of the current constraints presented by the
    pandemic?
        Mr. Geissler. Thank you, Senator.
        Yes, as you brought up, funding through state fire
    assistance and volunteer fire assistance is actually the
    easiest mechanism to actually help both state and local
    responders. The systems and processes are already in place to
    give those organizations direct funding without putting
    additional bureaucracy in place, and one thing we can do is
    that we work together in order to identify between states as
    well as within states what the need is, working with our own
    state departments of health. And as you heard earlier, the
    states are connected. We do talk and try to determine how one
    state can help another through our interagency agreements as
    well as through state compacts where we can move firefighters,
    if necessary, to various locations around the U.S., including
    Hawaii.
        So again, I appreciate your thoughts with regard to where
    the funding should go and that will be a direct impact on the
    local fire service who would need critical PPE.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you very much. It is reassuring to
    know that it is a coordinated effort and, of course, all the
    states are probably going to see a pretty big budget shortfall.
    That is one of the reasons that we need to push for another
    COVID bill that will provide funding for state and local
    governments with their budget shortfall. Of course, all that
    kind of funding can go toward the firefighting resources that
    we need. Thank you very much.
        Thank you, Madam Chair.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
        Is Senator Hoeven with us? He is next in the queue. Let's
    see if he pops on.
        [No response.]
        The Chairman. If not, we will turn to Senator Barrasso, who
    is definitely in the queue here.
        Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you, Madam Chairman.
    Following up with Senator Hirono who gave us the weather report
    from Hawaii, I will tell you that the interstate between
    Cheyenne and Laramie is closed. We had six inches of snow last
    night. So there are lots of differences from state to state. It
    is an astonishing thing.
        Madam Chairman, last June you convened a hearing on the
    Wildfire Outlook for 2019. You do it every year. This year, as
    in most things, the wildfire season looks quite a bit
    different. Senator Hirono mentioned it. Others have mentioned
    it as well, Senator McSally. 2018--truly catastrophic fires;
    2019--my home State of Wyoming fared much better; 2020--
    unprecedented times. Yellowstone National Park is now reopened
    as is Grand Teton National Park, we reopened May 18th. The fire
    risk expands beyond the normal outlook because of the concerns
    for our firefighters and their safety during this pandemic.
        Our forests are diverse ecosystems. As you all know, they
    need immediate attention. I want to talk a little bit about
    thinning, trying to thin overgrown stands, removing dead and
    downed timber. Getting this fuel load out of there, I believe,
    will significantly reduce fire risk. We will also make sure
    that we are spending federal dollars responsibly. So we need to
    coordinate action between local government, state government
    and federal agencies. That is the key to success. I think that
    requiring coordination among so many skilled partners like the
    witnesses today is helpful.
        So my question, and I will start with Ms. Kaster and then
    ask a follow-up to Mr. Phipps, is that President Trump issued
    an Executive Order in December 2018, Ms. Kaster. The order
    directed the Forest Service and the Department of the Interior
    to coordinate on a number of activities to increase the treated
    acres on federal land and then reduce, as a result, the risk of
    catastrophic wildfire. In your written testimony, you talked
    about Fiscal Year 2020, the Department of the Interior----
        [Feedback.]
        ----maybe Hoeven is back.
        [Laughter.]
        In the written testimony you mentioned that in Fiscal Year
    2020 the Department had completed about 620,000 acres of
    treatment, about half of all the planned treatments, and over
    80 percent of the benchmark which is established by the
    President's Executive Order. The National Interagency Fire
    Center updated their ``Significant Wildland Fire Potential
    Outlook.'' That is their map for August. Thankfully this year,
    Wyoming is only at normal risk for catastrophic wildfire. Could
    you just share with us how reports from groups like the
    National Interagency Fire Center and data from state agencies
    factor into your Department's planning for future fuel
    treatments?
        Ms. Kaster. Thank you for that question, Senator.
        We do rely on our state agencies and other entities to
    provide helpful data and what I will say is that for the
    Department of the Interior, it yields results. As you noted, we
    treated 1.4 million acres last year, 620,000 acres to date and
    we're going to continue to prioritize those efforts moving
    forward. They are critical. Like in Wyoming, we, this year,
    have planned some treatments of existing fuel breaks and we're
    going to build some new fuel breaks. So it's something we are
    definitely focused on, and we're going to continue to be
    focused on that effort moving forward.
        Senator Barrasso. And then, could I ask you for your
    follow-up as well, your recommendation, sir?
        Mr. Phipps. That's a great question.
        We factor that in in our risk assessment work which
    includes not only vegetation condition but weather patterns
    across different parts of the country to prioritize and there,
    even within any given state, there's a lot of variability. So
    to the extent we can we're trying to focus our treatments in a
    pattern and amount and intensity where it can really make a
    difference to reducing exposure to communities and other
    highly-valued resources.
        Senator Barrasso. You mentioned vegetation. I just want to
    follow up on that because in March, regions placed a pause on
    prescribed burns and we understand the reason behind that. Can
    you talk about specific changes in hazardous fuel management
    that maybe the Forest Service made to address the 2020 fire
    season from the approach you had in 2019?
        Mr. Phipps. Well, certainly our efforts are--we know that
    we're, we have a backlog. We're behind and so every--now,
    particularly given that we had to pause, we're really going
    after trying to get these planned treatments done. In addition
    to that, we're planning to include an increased effort to focus
    treatments in a more intentional way than we have done in the
    past years.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
        Thank you, Madam Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
        Senator King.
        Senator King. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        First, I want to thank and praise Mr. Phipps for knowing
    that Smokey Bear does not have a middle name. Our state
    forester informed me of that some years ago. ``The'' is not
    Smokey Bear's middle name, just for the record.
        [Laughter.]
        I want to ask a question that is somewhat touchy but I have
    heard for years that one of the problems with forest fires in
    the West and particularly in national forests is a lack of
    forest management, that there is a lot of debris, there is a
    lot of old growth, rotted trees, dead trees, trees on the
    ground. And my question is, what do we have for data on that?
    It seems to me this is something and maybe it exists and I just
    don't know about it. But it seems to me, Mr. Geissler, this is
    a question to you as well. Couldn't we do apples to apples
    comparison between relatively low-managed U.S. Forest Service
    land and privately-managed land and see if there are
    comparisons that when the climate, you know, you can adjust for
    the climate and all of those other factors?
        It just seems to me this is an area where there ought to be
    data and that is what we ought to be basing our decisions upon.
    It worries me that we may be, and of course, once a fire
    starts, it does not respect the lines between U.S. Forest
    Service and the private sector. So give me your thoughts on
    that issue.
        Mr. Phipps. Another great question. We look at, when we say
    lack of forest management, that's true in part. One of the
    greatest problems is that most of the fire regimes in the West
    or throughout the country require frequent, low intensity
    ground fire. Pre-settlement the forests looked really different
    than they do now. And so, we need forest management to reduce
    density and then we must return fire to the landscape. You have
    to do both.
        Senator King. In Maine we call that pre-commercial
    thinning.
        Mr. Phipps. Pre-commercial or commercial thinning to reduce
    density and then run prescribed fire through those areas.
    That's what it will take to get more fire resilience on the
    landscape.
        Senator King. But is part of the problem that we don't
    harvest enough on federal lands? That there is just--they are
    just allowed to go by themselves and that creates the
    undergrowth and the fuel?
        Mr. Phipps. That's part of the problem given our--a lot of,
    there's been a lot of settlement into these areas, and we have
    to suppress fire. Naturally, pre-settlement fire would roam on
    the landscape doing a lot of the work. But we've been
    suppressing fire for decades, and that primarily accounts for
    the buildup in hazardous fuels is the lack of natural fire. And
    that's why now we really need forest management to open up the
    vegetation so we can return prescribed fire to the landscape in
    a very careful and planned way.
        Senator King. Maine is the most forested state in the
    country, and yet we have relatively, except for a catastrophic
    fire in 1947, limited problem with fires. But I don't know that
    we do prescribed burning, as you suggest. It is more intensive
    management and it is all, virtually all, privately owned. Do
    you really need fires to prevent fires?
        Mr. Phipps. Well, it's highly variable by different forest
    type, different forest ecosystems. The forests in the Northeast
    are different than the ones in the West.
        Senator King. Sure.
        Mr. Phipps. And forest management there or fires on the
    East Coast generally are now more lower probability, wind-
    driven events where we can get, if you get the right conditions
    and a wind, you have quite a problem. But it's not the same
    type of risk than we see in California or Nevada or anywhere in
    the West.
        Senator King. Well, what I would like to see is comparative
    studies of 10,000-acre plots, U.S. Forest Service versus
    private in the same geographic region so that the climate
    factors are the same and the timber mix is the same. I would
    urge you to either work on studies such as that, I think that
    would be very informative, or to collect such studies if they
    have been done and forward them to the Committee.
        Thank you for your testimony.
        [Information regarding forest fire studies follow.]
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        Senator King. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Mr. Phipps. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator King.
        I believe we have Senator Hoeven with us.
        Senator Hoeven. Chairman?
        The Chairman. Go ahead, Senator Hoeven.
        Senator Hoeven. Can you hear me now?
        The Chairman. I can. You are coming in.
        Senator Hoeven. Great. I am sorry, I thought Dr. Barrasso
    was ahead of me there and so that is why I was not ready to go,
    but I appreciate you calling on me. Thanks so much for holding
    this hearing. I would like to start my questions with Deputy
    Chief Phipps.
        The first one is in North Dakota. We do a tremendous amount
    of work with unmanned aerial systems, UAS, through our test
    site, the Northern Plains test site in Grand Forks and UND
    School of Aerospace and Aviation, and our state partners, our
    Guard, flies unmanned aircraft as well. So we are very deep
    into the whole UAS world. I would ask, can you discuss the role
    that UAS have in emergency response and restoration activities
    in regard to what the USDA Forest Service is doing in terms of
    not only combating forest fires, but you know, prevention as
    well?
        Mr. Phipps. Thank you for the question.
        We're actually very excited about new opportunity and,
    under the Dingell Act, we've recently with the Department of
    the Interior, made a decision to invest in a robust capability
    of using unmanned aerial systems. And how we would use them,
    they're primarily very good for mapping, getting intelligence,
    going into places that are difficult to access in the fire
    environment. That's really helpful. It's safer to use a drone
    most of the time than to use scouts. And in general forest
    management, it's very helpful for the reconnaissance work
    gathering information so we can plan new projects.
        Senator Hoeven. Is there a role for them while you are
    actually fighting the fires as well?
        Mr. Phipps. Yes. In monitoring what's going on oftentimes
    we use helicopters but it's lower exposure to pilots and other
    responders to use a drone than it is any other method and that
    we're looking forward to using those when we get them in. We
    can also use them for aerial ignition for prescribed fire.
        Senator Hoeven. Is there something that we can do to
    interface through our test site in Grand Forks with USDA on
    that issue? Is there a way that we can, like I say, get
    involved with USDA in developing that----
        Mr. Phipps. We would welcome the partnership. We could look
    into that.
        Senator Hoeven. Would you be the person to contact?
        Mr. Phipps. Yes.
        Senator Hoeven. Okay, very good, we will do that. We will
    follow up.
        My other question is what about--we are dry in Western
    North Dakota and we have the grasslands out there as well. What
    are you doing to work with ranchers to make sure that you are
    responsive to both in terms of any controlled burns so that you
    don't have an issue there, but then also as far as making sure
    coordination on the firefighting challenges?
        Mr. Phipps. Thank you for that.
        Our direction to our field leaders is to coordinate,
    coordinate, coordinate--share risk before fire comes and that's
    particularly true anywhere there's a national grassland or
    national forest. That's what we do and there's a lot of time
    spent in developing agreements, doing scenario planning to help
    get prepared for each fire season.
        Senator Hoeven. Well, I would ask that you be responsive to
    those ranchers. They are out there on the ground. They are
    certainly concerned about any controlled burns, particularly
    when it is dry, but then also in terms of working with them on
    any firefighting is very important. So I would ask for your
    commitment to work very closely with----
        Mr. Phipps. Yeah, we can do that.
        Senator Hoeven. ----the ranchers and the grazing
    associations.
        The other question I have is for Deputy Assistant Secretary
    Kaster and that is in regard to working with the tribes on the
    reservation as far as firefighting and the coordination effort
    to make sure that you are responsive to the tribes, to BIA and
    their firefighting communities.
        Ms. Kaster. Tribes are a critical component of our ability
    to fight fires and we do work with them, both at the
    reservation level and also, as you mentioned, in coordination
    with the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
        Senator Hoeven. What are you doing to make sure you have
    outreach and that you are proactive in terms of areas that may
    be particularly dry this year?
        Ms. Kaster. Senator, I'd have to get back to you on the
    specifics of what BIA has been doing in terms of treatments
    with tribes, but I know overarching, the Department has been
    very focused on ensuring that across all DOI lands, including
    with tribes, that we are being thoughtful and coordinated in
    our ability to prevent fire ahead of time.
        Senator Hoeven. Alright. Thank you. And again, thank you,
    Madam Chairman, I appreciate it.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hoeven.
        Senator Cortez Masto.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate
    everyone being here today. I have been bouncing between here
    and the Banking Committee, so I so appreciate the written
    testimonies as well.
        From Nevada, as you know, wildfires and how we address
    them, manage them in the middle of a pandemic as well, is
    crucial and important for state. So let me start with a couple
    of things. I know the Forest Service and the BLM in Nevada have
    contracted additional air assets to help combat potential loss
    of ground crews that are currently based in Nevada, and the
    Nevada Division of Forestry is looking into how they may be
    able to assist with bolstering contracted air assets to assist
    in Nevada.
        So let me ask a question to the panel. What do you and
    other states need from federal partners to increase air tanker
    support, because I know how crucial that is for my state? I
    will open it up to the panel and maybe, Deputy Chief Phipps, if
    you don't mind starting the discussion?
        Mr. Phipps. Thank you.
        We've been working quite diligently. Air tankers, air
    resources have been a continuing challenge. We believe this
    year, like in my testimony, I said, we have up to 35 large air
    tankers. I think it's important to understand that we have
    also, access to in the interagency environment, for example,
    the Department of the Interior has 100 single engine aircraft
    or air tankers under contract and depending on the situation
    and the need, we have access to that and we're well underway
    for our planning and preparedness for the upcoming Western fire
    season.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Okay. So nothing else that we can do
    at a federal level to assist you in that space?
        Mr. Phipps. Not at this time.
        Senator Cortez Masto. That is good to hear. Thank you.
        In Nevada, as you are well aware, we have--and actually the
    Chairwoman has been out to Tahoe and she has seen this--we have
    extensive use of a fire camera network to monitor and detect
    our wildfires. We have the Alert Tahoe and the Alert Wildfire
    programs.
        Let me ask. In light of the ongoing pandemic, would you say
    that an expansive fire detection camera network would have an
    even larger role to play right now among new technology that
    makes it available to determine where fires may be starting?
        Mr. Phipps. Yes. Anything that we can do to detect a fire
    and mobilize resources, the sooner, the better. We believe, as
    mentioned, that keeping the fire small and it has everything to
    do with that very early on, after ignition, getting adequate
    resources to extinguish, contain the fire. And so any earlier
    detection is an advantage.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Ms. Kaster, the Alert Wildfire
    recently received federal funding assistance from the U.S.
    Forest Service, but it is also getting assistance from the
    Department of the Interior as well. Can you tell me the status
    on the funding of this program? It is the Alert Wildfire
    program I just talked about.
        Ms. Kaster. I'm happy to look into it, Senator, and get
    back to you.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, I appreciate that, thank
    you so much.
        Let me jump now to both testing as well as vaccines. There
    is a day when we are going to have a vaccine and I am curious.
    I know my Nevada Division of Forestry is working closely with
    the Department of Emergency Management in the state to list
    their emergency responder staff as priority for these, for
    these vaccines. I am curious what the Forest Service and the
    BLM are doing in thinking ahead to the day when we have the
    vaccine. Are you preparing for that and what is your
    preparation?
        Mr. Phipps or Ms. Kaster?
        Mr. Phipps. That's a great question. We've been imagining
    that. To be quite honest we've been somewhat focused on the
    next few months for the fire season, understanding that we're,
    you know, we refer to the fire year, but we are very much
    looking forward to having the vaccine and getting our
    responders vaccinated so we can put this particular risk of the
    pandemic behind us because there's enough risk in the wildland
    fire environment to begin with, so.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Right. So it would make sense for the
    first responders to have early access to the vaccine. Do you
    agree with that?
        Mr. Phipps. Yes, I agree with that.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Ms. Kaster?
        Ms. Kaster. Senator, CDC guidance has actually, in our
    coordination with CDC, they have prioritized firefighting staff
    and we'll continue to work with them to do so as they really
    are our front line, folks that are really just going to be
    crucial this upcoming fire season.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank
    you to the panelists, I notice my time is up. I will submit the
    rest of my questions for the record.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. We will look forward to
    those.
        To Ms. Kaster's final point there, recognizing that CDC has
    recognized the critical nature and the critical status for
    purposes of early access to the vaccine, one would think that
    that guidance would then follow through when it comes to
    testing. So know that that is a great concern of this
    Committee. I think you heard it repeated by several. I do think
    that what we are demonstrating in Alaska is a path forward. Now
    granted, we don't share those common borders with the other
    states, but I think aggressive testing is one way that can give
    that assurance when it is just not possible to follow those CDC
    guidelines related to social distancing and sufficient hygiene.
    So know that we are going to continue to press you on this.
        I am going to ask one, maybe one and a half, final
    questions here as we wrap.
        Recognizing that we do have resource mobilization issues
    that we have talked through here and you do have other concerns
    that you don't have in ``a normal'' fire year, as we see this
    fire season underway in Alaska and coming now on here in the
    Lower 48, what is the status of our hiring numbers and working
    with both state and federal?
        I am going to turn to Mr. McDonald in Alaska to talk about
    what we are seeing on the ground right now. Do we have the
    folks that we need and able to assist? I know that it is really
    a moving target as we look to what may come in these next weeks
    ahead, and then I would like to ask the same question to our
    federal partners.
        Mr. McDonald.
        Mr. McDonald. For state resources we were on target for
    bringing people back to work. We went through a quarantine
    period and some remote working, but we are on track with
    getting our crews ready for this fire season. Our cooperators,
    the federal agency that we work with, are as well, their crews
    are on step at this point.
        The concerns I do have and for Alaska and specifically as
    with our village crews, our emergency firefighting crews, those
    numbers have already been dropping over the last decade for
    various reasons and then this year with the COVID overstory
    those are even taking a greater hit. And the concern, as you
    brought up, is if those crews leave a village or to be in
    contact with COVID and then return to that village and
    reintroducing that into a community like that, that's a real
    concern that we have in Alaska. We've worked through that
    process. We'll continue to work through that process. We're
    working with those village crews and those communities on
    options and some of that does and will include testing. So I
    will say, for us, that's probably our biggest hit to
    availability is with those village resources that we count on
    in Alaska.
        The Chairman. Well thank you for raising that because that
    is something that, you know and many of our federal partners
    know, I have continued to push on the need to ensure that these
    native fire crews coming out of the villages which are real
    experts in their region are protected. They know the conditions
    on the ground better than anybody else out there, and they are
    true professionals. So it is concerning to me, perhaps even
    alarming, to think that because of COVID we may be in a
    situation where we lose the few fire crews, village fire crews,
    that we have in place now.
        We have seen over the years our federal partners relying on
    them less and less which is not the direction I think we need
    to go and with this fear, it is not only the great benefit that
    they bring during active fire season but also what they can do
    to help us when we are doing off season fuels mitigation work.
    Know that this is going to continue to be an issue for me in
    how we can make sure that our village fire crews are stood up
    every year--that they get the training that they need but also
    in a safe work environment.
        Mr. Phipps, can you speak to what we are seeing with regard
    to recruitment with our Lower 48 crews?
        Mr. Phipps. Yes, thank you.
        We are, the Forest Service, is on track to hire in most of
    our regions. We are having a bit of a challenge in Region 5
    because of the competitive nature in salaries, but we're hoping
    to get up to operational levels there. We have heard from some
    of our partners in the states that some of the inmate crews may
    not be available this year and so, system, wildland fire system
    wide, there is some concern that we won't have exactly the same
    capacity as last year, but the Forest Service is working
    diligently to try to get all the firefighters we can.
        The Chairman. Well I would like more detail on this.
    Alaska, as I mentioned, is kind of its own team up there,
    supplemented by the Lower 48 crews which we greatly appreciate.
    But when you look at the maps that Senator Cantwell showed,
    this is going to be a tough year if our predictions are right
    and usually those predictions are not too far off. To hear that
    we are not quite sure, in fact, maybe we are sure, that we are
    not going to be able to get those who have come from other
    places before--whether it is through our prisons or otherwise--
    and just to recognize that as a firefighter, again, inherently
    dangerous work, but now additional threats through COVID, that
    that is going to impact our recruitment efforts. We need to
    know what this game plan is to gear up so that when it hits,
    whether it is Arizona or Washington at the same time things are
    going off in Alaska, the last year we got lucky. We got lucky
    because Alaska really went off at a time when the Lower 48 was
    very quiet, so we were able to cover everything, 3,000 fire
    workers up in Alaska. We were able to cover those fires because
    we didn't have the activity in the Lower 48.
        We can't count on luck to be a strategy when it comes to
    resourcing these wildland fires because we know that wildland
    urban interface, they don't care. The Santa Ana winds that I
    mentioned, they push it into the biggest metropolitan area. I
    know that for our state, our local, our tribal, our federal, we
    have got to have a better handle on our level of preparedness
    for this season. So I want to have more conversation on that.
        I am going to end with one last question and this may be to
    Mr. McDonald again, but I am very active with my co-chair of
    the Arctic Conference, very active with the Arctic
    Parliamentarians, and we discuss all kinds of matters related
    to Arctic concerns--infrastructure, climate--but one of the
    things that has been on our agenda in many meetings of late has
    been what we are seeing with these northern wildfires. Last
    year, Russia had significant, significant wildfires. Our
    friends in Canada have seen increased wildfires. In Norway, in
    their forests, they are seeing an increased level of fires. And
    it is not just in the north, we saw Australia that was truly on
    fire last year and we were able, as a country, to be able to
    help Australia with their efforts.
        I raise this because it is a matter of global concern here,
    and the question that was raised in a call that I had with
    Arctic Parliamentarians last week was to what extent are
    agreements in place to either share fire crews or aviation
    assets across our international borders whether it is U.S. and
    Canada, but just an understanding here of these implications of
    the fires. Right now we have a ``no travel'' restriction unless
    it is essential between the United States and Canada. I am
    certainly hopeful that we would have had conversations between
    Canada and Alaska, our states along the Canadian border in the
    Lower 48, about how will we move crews if we need to be moving
    crews? How will we move the aviation assets if we need to do
    so?
        Can you give me some assurance, or Mr. McDonald, can you
    tell me if we are at the ready when it comes to these fires
    that cross beyond our national borders?
        Mr. McDonald. Well, I can speak for Alaska. We are part of
    what is called the Northwest Compact which includes most of the
    Western states and a lot of the Canadian providences where we
    share resources including aircraft or air tankers or scoopers,
    and we have a very good relationship with all those Compact
    members. That's a tool that we use every year to import
    firefighters and aerial assets to Alaska and then return when
    it's the Lower 48 season, we send our firefighters too at their
    request.
        I was talking to State Forester George Geissler as well
    just this morning, and we've got some of his firefighters in
    Alaska right now helping out through that Compact. So that
    works very well for us, and we rely on those assets to get us
    through our seasons like last year. And as you mentioned, the
    seasons are just continuing to get worse through climate
    change. Last year was a really good example of the most
    devastating and the highest fire indices we've ever witnessed
    in Alaska. And it was an eye opener, I think, for a lot of
    people but, yeah. So that's, so we do have those Compacts in
    place and available. Those resources are available to us.
        The Chairman. Yes, I think we got the attention of many in
    this country. I believe it was a New York Times article about
    the Arctic zombie fires where the fires can literally continue
    for years on end. They go underground during the winter into
    the peat tundra and then in the spring they will just be little
    poofs of fire that, if the conditions are right, can ignite and
    these zombie fires in the Arctic, in Alaska and Russia
    particularly, are getting some attention there.
        I am going to end by an acknowledgment of two individuals
    that have given extraordinary careers when it comes to the
    forestry community in my state. Chris Maisch is our Alaska
    State Forester. He has spent 36 years serving Alaska. He has
    been our State Forester for the past 15 years. He has actually
    said he is going to retire. I think this time he actually means
    it, but he has been just an enormous asset for us in the state.
    And also, Shawna Legarza, who is the Fire and Aviation Director
    at the Forest Service. Shawna has over 25 years in fire
    management. She was a hotshot crew member herself. These are
    exceptional individuals who have really committed themselves to
    the cause which is providing for the safety of so many,
    ensuring not only safe communities but that our environments
    continue and our forests continue in healthy conditions. So I
    want to acknowledge their considerable work to the effort and
    to the cause.
        With that, I thank you. We have had a good hearing. We have
    had good participation from Committee members. I think our
    witnesses have heard very clearly, we are concerned about how
    we can ensure that the safety of our firefighters out on the
    line, both from fire as well as from COVID, how we can have
    access to more testing, the assets that we need to have in
    place and working with our federal partners, our state
    partners, our tribal and local to do just that.
        This is a little bit concerning, every time we have this
    fire hearing, because you are never quite sure what the season
    is actually going to look like. But if those maps don't get all
    of our attention and kind of kick us in the rear to say, let's
    make sure that we have these fire crews that are ready and not
    base this strategy on a hope that we are going to just be hit
    in a manner and in an order that we can track and stay on top
    of because Mother Nature doesn't usually care.
        With that, we stand adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 12:10 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.]

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