[Senate Hearing 116-364]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 116-364
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE USDA FOREST SERVICE FOR FISCAL
YEAR 2021
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
FEBRUARY 25, 2020
__________
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
40-910 WASHINGTON : 2021
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho RON WYDEN, Oregon
MIKE LEE, Utah MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
STEVE DAINES, Montana BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
CORY GARDNER, Colorado MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
MARTHA McSALLY, Arizona ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
Brian Hughes, Staff Director
Kellie Donnelly, Chief Counsel
Nick Matiella, Senior Professional Staff Member
Renae Black, Democratic Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
Bryan Petit, Democratic Senior Professional Staff Member
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Alaska.... 1
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
West Virginia.................................................. 3
WITNESS
Christiansen, Victoria, Chief, USDA Forest Service............... 4
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Christiansen, Victoria:
Opening Statement............................................ 4
Written Testimony............................................ 6
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 56
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
Opening Statement............................................ 3
McSally, Hon. Martha:
``Modernizing 4FRI Implementation: Progress After Two Years--
Workshop Final Report'' prepared by the Ecological
Restoration Institute, Northern Arizona University dated 2/
11/2020.................................................... 16
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE USDA FOREST SERVICE FOR FISCAL
YEAR 2021
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TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2020
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:08 a.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Lisa
Murkowski, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI,
U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA
The Chairman. Morning everyone. The Committee will come to
order.
This morning we will consider the President's budget
request for the U.S. Forest Service for FY 2021.
Chief Christiansen, it is good to be able to welcome you
back to the Committee. Thank you for being here. We say around
here that the President's budget request is just that, it is a
request. It does start the annual budget process. It gives us
here in Congress the opportunity to learn about the
Administration's priorities and how it would carry them out,
but ultimately it is up to us to determine what programs to
fund and what levels.
Although this year's budget request is far from perfect, I
agree that the priority must be on wildland fire management and
improving the health of our forests. I am encouraged the
Administration is proposing to invest significantly in
hazardous fuel reduction and other active forest management
activities. We know such investments pay dividends in reducing
the risk of severe wildfire. Hopefully we will see this
important work planned and carried out without any disruptions
thanks to our work on the Consolidated Appropriations Act of
2018 which provided new budget authority to fight wildfires.
The fire fix will be available for the first time in FY 2020,
and this budget request would make use of it for FY 2021.
The 2019 fire season was relatively mild in the Lower 48
with few notable exceptions, but in Alaska last summer is going
to be going down in the history books. We had over 600 fires
that burned over 2.5 million acres and we had the nation's
costliest fire of the year, the Swan Lake Fire on the Kenai
Peninsula. Thousands of firefighters from across Alaska, 46
states, Canada and even Puerto Rico fought fires in Alaska last
summer. Hazardous fuel reduction projects and fuel breaks
provided effective help with firefighters as they beat back
fires and prevented them from spreading into the communities.
But it was a tough, tough summer for us.
As more and more of our forests die off due to beetle
infestations across Alaska and elsewhere, this work becomes
more urgent. We know that we need more of it. And Chief, you
certainly know that fires have no boundaries there. What we can
do to work together is important. I do appreciate the Forest
Service acknowledging its cooperative work with the State of
Alaska on the beetle infestation in its budget justification
but I am dismayed that this request proposes to cut the overall
program, the Forest Health Management on Cooperative Lands, and
other state and private forestry programs. Even with the fire
fix in place, wildfire will continue to consume a large
percentage of the budget, so I am pleased the Forest Service
wants to invest in building capacity to more effectively use
technology and wildland fire management. That will help ensure
that we are smart as we fight the fires, always keeping
firefighter safety at the forefront.
I think we owe appreciation to Senator Gardner and Senator
Cantwell for their work on the wildfire technology provisions
in the Dingell Act which was signed just about a year ago.
Another area where I think we all know we need to do more
is with recreation. Recreation is the single greatest use of
our national forests, but this request does not accurately
reflect that, in my view. In Alaska, I routinely hear about the
demand for new recreation uses and corresponding difficulties
in getting permits for them. I was just in Southeast this past
week and, again, heard that repeated. Last year we held a
hearing on recreation and heard about the need for permitting
reform. I am still hopeful that we can work together to make
some meaningful progress here in Congress.
Similar to recreation, I remain concerned that agency
initiatives to create a positive workforce are not adequately
articulated in this request. Time and time again I have urged
Forest Service leadership to cultivate a work environment that
is free of harassment and retaliation. I am also concerned by
the increasing rate of suicide among wildland firefighters.
These issues are a priority here on this Committee. I think
they are a priority of all of us. I look forward to hearing how
the Forest Service intends to address them.
So in wrapping up, I think I would be remiss if I didn't
mention the Forest Service work on the Roadless. The agency
states specific rulemaking for the Tongass has always been
about reasonable access for every local stakeholder in the 32
islanded communities in Southeast Alaska. Not just timber,
barely timber if we are actually being honest here, but also
transportation, tourism, mining and even renewable energy. So
my thanks to you, Chief, as well as Secretary Perdue and all
who are working on this Rule. I know it is not easy, and I
think that sometimes your good work is frequently
mischaracterized. I appreciate, again, all that you are doing
with that.
Let me turn to my colleague, Senator Manchin, for his
comments.
STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
Senator Manchin. Thank you, Chairman Murkowski, and I want
to thank you for convening the hearing today on the Forest
Service budget request for Fiscal Year 2021. I would also like
to welcome Chief Christiansen to our Committee and thank her
staff for being here. I had a nice conversation with you
yesterday, and I look forward to you coming back to Monongahela
Forest, and we will make sure you see some really special
areas.
Aside from being beautiful, the Monongahela, like most of
West Virginia's forests, is truly a working forest. It provides
fish and game for sportsmen, timber for our mills, recreational
opportunities for the hikers, jobs in our communities and
serves as a watershed for four states. Forest Service lands
across the country are similarly managed for multiple uses
including supporting local economies, providing timber and
conserving special areas for future generations to enjoy. Of
course, all this can only be accomplished if the Forest Service
has the funding that it needs. Rural communities all across the
country support and demand our national forests, and we owe it
to our constituents to deliver a responsible budget.
Some of the budget this Administration has proposed would
do just that, but much of it doesn't. For example, I am glad to
see the steps that you are proposing to take with regards to
firefighting. They would significantly reduce our federal
spending and increase the safety of firefighters. On the other
hand, I do not support the proposal to zero out funding for the
Land and Water Conservation Fund (LWCF). I appreciate the
special exhibit that you included in your budget showing that
in Fiscal Year 2019 LWCF was used to acquire 19,515 acres
specifically to enhance access for hunting, fishing and
shooting in national forests. Just last year the Public Lands
package was signed into law, securing permanent authorization
for LWCF. I followed up by introducing a bipartisan bill which
many of my colleagues have signed on to, with 52 co-sponsors to
be exact, which will require permanent and full funding for
LWCF at the $900 million level and remains to this day one of
my top priorities.
I was also proud to join many of my colleagues on the
Committee to co-sponsor the Restore Our Parks Act. This bill
would provide over $6 billion to the National Park Service to
address its deferred maintenance backlog. The Forest Service
backlog, as you know, is over $5 billion, similar in size to
the National Park Service. I wanted to note that the
President's budget request includes a nearly identical proposal
except that it would direct ten percent of the funding to the
Forest Service to address its deferred maintenance backlog.
While I am glad to see that the Administration is thinking
about the problem, I am very disappointed to see that, at the
same time, the budget proposes a reduction in annual
maintenance funding. That is something we can't have happen.
Reductions in maintenance funding are what caused the
maintenance backlog, and it will just grow worse. Adequate
funding needs to be built into the budget, or we will continue
to find ourselves in a no-win situation.
Lastly, I want to complement the Chief on her ambitious
goal for timber harvesting. I know that the Forest Service will
conduct these harvests in a sustainable way as required by our
environmental laws, and I am pleased that you are partnering
with states to help get this work done. As a former governor, I
can tell you that the partnerships you are forming with states
make your agency stronger and able to do more than you can do
by yourself.
With that, I look forward to hearing about Chief
Christiansen's priorities and discussing the investments that
we need to make in our national forests. And I want to thank
you, Madam Chairman, and I look forward to hearing from Chief
Christiansen.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Manchin.
Chief, it is good to have you back before the Committee. We
welcome your presentation here this morning. If you would like
to proceed, and then we will have an opportunity for some
questions, but thank you.
STATEMENT OF VICTORIA CHRISTIANSEN, CHIEF,
USDA FOREST SERVICE
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Madam Chairman, Ranking Member
Manchin and members of the Committee, for inviting me back to
testify on the President's 2021 budget for the Forest Service.
Today I will share details on the hard choices that were made
in our budget request and focus on three key areas: our
progress to employ tools, authorities and funding to confront
threats to forests and support communities; the work in front
of us and the challenges that we must overcome; and, our
steadfast efforts and progress to champion a strong workforce
and healthy workplace.
We thank the Congress for approving the 2020 budget. We're
putting funds, new authorities and tools to good use. Trend
lines point upward as we treat more forest acres, reduce
hazardous fuels and support rural economies. We are on track to
meet our timber target, and so far we are outpacing last year's
work to reduce hazardous fuels. Our shared stewardship approach
is gaining momentum in spirit and new agreements. We're working
across boundaries to do work at the right scale in the right
places.
We've signed 12 agreements with states and one with the
Western Governors' Association. Twenty-six agreements are in
progress. We've executed 245 good neighbor agreements in 38
states and doubled timber volume. We aim to build on our
progress in 2021. The President's $7.38 billion budget
emphasizes our critical work. It focuses work to reduce
wildland fire risk, improve forest conditions, increase access
and contribute to local economies and it advances our shared
stewardship approach but it does reflect tough choices and
tradeoffs.
In addition, we are seeking solutions and innovations to
overcome obstacles that slow our work. We're nearing completion
of the reforms that will ease process burdens and reduce costs.
This spring we will finish new rules that streamline decision
processes, meet our environmental responsibility and get more
work done. Efforts to modernize budget processes, increase
efficiencies in firefighting, integrate science and improve
internal systems put us in a position to better deliver our
mission. We also appreciate your help in addressing challenges
of the Cottonwood ruling. It has delayed work on the ground and
unending analysis and redundant consultation.
We're also seeking ways to maintain a reliable
infrastructure, an essential for groundwork and public access.
With over 370 miles of road and 159,000, excuse me, that's
370,000 miles of road and 159,000 miles of trails, the Forest
Service manages the largest transportation system of all the
federal land management agencies. These roads, trails and
bridges make up the largest part of our $5.2 billion
maintenance backlog. We need functioning roads and bridges to
treat forests, fight fires and reduce fire risk. Rural
Americans need functioning roads and bridges for their daily
use, for outdoor activities and emergency response.
Lastly, our mission's success depends on a highly-skilled,
motivated workforce. We will continue our work to end sexual
harassment and retaliation. We are making progress and are more
resolute than ever in our commitment to provide a safe,
harassment-free, respectful workplace. We have taken actions.
We are improving but we most go further to permanently change
our culture to one that is based on dignity, equality and
respect for all. Our strong workforce is key to our aim to
create a gold standard for public service and mission delivery.
It ensures we make good on the investments of this Congress and
provide the services and sound stewardship this nation
deserves.
Thank you. I'd be happy to answer questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Christiansen follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Chief, we appreciate your quick
review here, but we will have an opportunity to fill it in with
more questions.
I want to start off with a couple of Alaska-specific
issues. You have mentioned and my colleague, Senator Manchin,
also acknowledged that the Administration is proposing its
highest national timber target in decades here but that goal,
as you probably know, just really doesn't extend to us in
Alaska. We are at the lowest point that we have seen in our
state's history since we have been logging there and among,
certainly among the lowest in the nation here. Only 5.6 million
board feet were sold in Alaska in 2019. This would be 0.14
percent of this year's goal.
Again, recognizing that this is coming from our nation's
largest national forest. So, again, I just came from Southeast.
I was down in Ketchikan, in Juneau, in Sitka, obviously
discussions about Roadless but really a broader concern about
whether or not we are going to be able to get any reliable
volume out of the Tongass given what we are seeing.
What steps, can you share with me, is the Forest Service
taking to reverse this trend on the timber in Alaska?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator. I hear you loud and
clear. I, too, have concerns and I've dug pretty deep into the
uniqueness in Alaska, myself and, you know, took the time to
come up this summer----
The Chairman. Which we appreciated.
Ms. Christiansen. ----and have a look myself.
What I can assure you is that we do remain committed to a
reliable and a continuous supply of timber for Southeast
Alaska. It's a part of the economy and the way of life--we
really do get that. And I'm pushing our folks to really work
innovatively on how we can address some multiple challenges,
quite frankly, in doing business in this island communities.
There are--it often has some more logistical challenges. It is
more expensive, and we need to really be smart and we need to
be coordinated.
In addition, there's significant market variability. I
think you know that right now the market is very soft. The 30
million board foot sale that was a good neighbor sale in the
State of Alaska is on hold right now because of market
conditions. It's compounded by some retaliatory tariffs in
China. And, you know, there is a significant amount of
controversy and lawsuits in Alaska. And it's not that we don't
have those challenges other places, Senator.
So we really looked hard on how we, as the Forest Service,
the stewards, as you say, of the largest national forest, we
can be a convening capacity to bring multiple interests
together to look at the watershed, fisheries, recreation
values, in addition to the timber values, find the common
ground and have enough available, cleared, environmentally
cleared, product that we can be responsive to the different
market changes. As you know we took a large landscape approach,
the first with the Prince of Wales large landscape project. It
brought a lot of collaborative capacity, a lot of common ground
by many interests were brought together. Unfortunately, it's
been enjoined and so that's the biggest reason why we couldn't
offer the amount of timber we intended to do. We're looking at
the situation there and we're trying to adjust accordingly, and
we're committed to continue to work on this to be flexible and
meet the needs of Alaska.
The Chairman. Well, Chief, I have not interrupted. I have
allowed you to try to give me as fulsome a response as you can.
But you need to know that I view this as wholly, wholly
unsatisfactory. Instead of moving forward, instead of actually
seeing some results translate on the ground, we are going
backward which I didn't think possible. I don't believe it is
because you don't support the work or the opportunity that
remains in the Tongass, but what is happening is exactly what
those who would seek to shut the Tongass down--it is happening
that the industry is unable to hold on.
You will be visited by a group of Alaskans this week who
will not only share with you their concern about, again, this
downward trend that has gone so low that we could not have even
imagined that it would be this bad. But they have also been hit
with a double whammy that you reference with regard to the
Chinese tariffs. That came out of left field. But I think you
have a situation here where through policies, through
litigation, you have managed to eliminate an industry and an
opportunity for people who live in the nation's largest
national forest.
In deference to my colleagues here and their opportunity to
ask questions, I will conclude my statement, but know that the
response that you have provided--that you are committed--
committed on paper is one thing and I have all the materials
and the statistics, but it is not translating on the ground. It
is not translating in these communities, and that is not an
acceptable solution.
Let me turn to Senator Manchin.
Senator Manchin. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Chief Christiansen, in December of last year, myself and
the Chairman and members of this Committee, many members of
this Committee, worked diligently to enact a two-year extension
on the Secure Rural Schools program. Over 290,000 West
Virginians really depend on that. They sent me letters. They
were excited. But even though we provided the funding, the
money has not been dispersed. What should I tell them? When
will they get this money? And why is it taking so long to get
it out the door?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator Manchin, we appreciate your
leadership on Secure Rural Schools. It really does make a
difference across the country in many of these rural counties
with public lands.
We are working, top priority----
Senator Manchin. It usually goes out in February. It
usually goes out, the money goes out in February.
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, it will be out before the end of
March. I can guarantee you that. And I have asked my folks to
step it up, top priority, to get it out.
Senator Manchin. What slowed it up? Is there anything that
we can do to prevent this? Because we have a two-year
extension, we don't want this to repeat itself next year.
Ms. Christiansen. You know, in the finance part of the
Federal Government, I'm not the expert. I will get back to
you----
Senator Manchin. We will be happy to work with your--you
have to have somebody that works at OMB, I am sure, who is
connected with OMB on this?
Ms. Christiansen. Sure.
Senator Manchin. If you can give us the person, your
contact, on behalf of all of us that rely on this----
Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
Senator Manchin. ----we are happy to work with you.
Ms. Christiansen. Well, we'd be happy to work with you if
there's any----
Senator Manchin. So we should tell, basically, our
constituents back home--for any of you all that have this type
of funding--that it will be a month late, 30 days late,
probably.
Ms. Christiansen. Or less.
Senator Manchin. Or less, okay.
Second thing then, speaking about royalty. The budget
proposal includes a $5 million increase for your communication
sites program. It says the funding would be used for providing
broadband access to rural communities, specifically in areas
where there is little or no capability. There is not a state
that is probably affected more than my State of West Virginia
that has rural areas that have no connectivity whatsoever.
I guess I would ask how, with the little bit of money you
have there, how are you going to select the areas for which you
are going to disperse this?
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, I really appreciate your question
and your leadership on rural broadband. As you know, this is a
high priority for Secretary Perdue and all of USDA. Just to
clarify what this--on the numbers it looks like a bump up and
it is because it's a request for the fees that are paid from
these communication--to establish, to get permits on these
communication sites for the agency to retain them so we can
provide better service, better response times for those
communication sites.
Senator Manchin. So you are not selecting new sites at all?
You won't be selecting new sites?
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, we don't select sites. That's the
private sector comes to us and asks to establish a site----
Senator Manchin. One thing I would make you aware of is
their maps are usually wrong. We have proven through FCC that
the FCC maps are wrong, what these providers are telling you
they are covering and they are not covering. So, please, if you
will, work with us on that. We will give you the accurate maps.
Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely. We----
Senator Manchin. We are urging FCC. There is $20 billion
going out the door this year. They are probably expediting it
because of elections, and there are going to be a lot of rural
communities that are going to be left behind because the maps
have not been updated. We are going to get screwed again.
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, again, it's a top priority for
USDA, and we'd be glad to work with you on that.
Senator Manchin. My final question is going to be this.
According to the budget proposal, the Forest Service is
preparing to publish a revision of regulations for locatable
minerals in October. The current regulations apply to hard rock
mining operations which, you know, have not been changed since
1872 and very little has been done. With that being said, there
are no royalties paid to the American public whatsoever for the
resources they own.
Are you suggesting and working toward making those changes
that we should be making here in Congress, supporting the
changes that need to be made, not only for the royalties, but
also for how it is mined and for the environment and how it is
protected, the same as we do in coal and other extractions? For
some reason hard rock has been left off the table. It has been
protected.
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, there's a rich history on the
mining laws.
Senator Manchin. It is rich for the companies that do it.
It is not rich for the American taxpayer.
Ms. Christiansen. Sorry, wrong word I used, yes. There's
significant history on the mining laws and I'd be, we'd be
happy to work with you on that, Senator. I really appreciate
your questions.
Senator Manchin. Well, I would like to know from your
office and your department, basically, how many active permits
we have, how many prospective permits that are in a queue, if
you would.
Ms. Christiansen. We have hundreds, but we'll, for sure,
give you the numbers.
Senator Manchin. Yes--if they identify it, they submit it
to you, and you give them the permit, and then we get nothing
in return. I would like to know where we stand on that.
Ms. Christiansen. Well, it's complicated that, you know,
the subsurface estate, most of it is BLM and we manage the
surface. It's split estates and--but it depends on where we're
at----
Senator Manchin. Yes.
Ms. Christiansen. ----in the U.S.
Senator Manchin. You all are very much involved with that,
I am sure.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
Senator Manchin. Okay, thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator McSally.
Senator McSally. Thank you, Chairwoman Murkowski.
Chief Christiansen, good to see you again. Thanks for your
continued work in this position as well as your service to the
State of Arizona as our State Forester before you came to the
Forest Service.
When we spoke at this hearing last year you committed to
working with me to update Region 3 forestry guidelines to make
sure that Phase 2 of Arizona's 4FRI initiative is a success.
Shortly after the hearing I introduced my bill, the
Accelerating Forest Restoration Act, which laid out very
concisely the top asks from the 4FRI stakeholders to make the
project more efficient and economical. The Ecological
Restoration Institute at NAU, Northern Arizona University, has
been a leader in developing effective forestry policy and
convening stakeholders to ensure policies get implemented. They
recently released a progress report on modernizing 4FRI
implementation. It acts as both a report card on how well the
Forest Service has done in implementing the reforms laid out in
my bill and as a guide to what still needs to be done. It
should be required reading for anyone involved in 4FRI, and I
want to make sure you have a copy and also, Chairwoman, I would
ask unanimous consent this be added to the record.
The Chairman. It will be included, thank you.
[4FRI Progress Report follows.]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator McSally. Right, thank you.
I will be following up with some questions for the record
on detailed updates on the status of implementing the
stakeholder requests, including branding requirements for low-
value timber, streamlining truck weigh-ins, increasing weight
limits and extended deck drying times, all of which you are
familiar with.
But I want to turn to focus on one of the most critical
components of making 4FRI work, both in terms of the economics
and improvement of the forest health and that is biomass
removal. When it comes to large forest thinning projects like
4FRI, do you agree that the biomass removal, the disposing of
large piles of small branches of leftover slash, is one of the
biggest challenges?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, I do, Senator.
Senator McSally. I appreciate that the Phase 2 RFP has a
biomass removal mandate in it, but these types of requirements
on other projects have scared away industry due to the huge
costs involved. Could you just share what do you think the
options are for removing wood biomass besides openly burning
many metric tons of slash piles in Arizona's forests? Does the
Forest Service intend to overcome previous challenges to
biomass removals in a different way in this next phase of 4FRI?
I just wanted to get your thoughts on that.
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, that's a great opener for, you
know, the bottom line is the aggressive work we and others are
doing to find markets for that biomass. It's not economical as
you well know.
Senator McSally. Yes.
Ms. Christiansen. Just to remove it. To burn it all and put
smoke in the air and we are working on multiple fronts, our
forest products lab, our wood innovations work on a marketplace
solution to biomass.
Now, in the meantime, 4FRI has been really a leader in
teaching us this difficulty we have in how much of viable
timber versus how much biomass and how we bring the right
proposal forward of what the requirements are that meets a
business model that's reasonable.
Senator McSally. Yes, is there, I mean, as you know, the
market-based solution is the challenge, right? Because slash
and unmarketable trees can be supplies. They can be used to
generate electricity, but it is just not lucrative as far as
being cost-efficient compared to other modes. How do you
address any of those market-based issues when it comes to even
using it for electricity generation?
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, electricity generation has, you
know, it doesn't, it just doesn't attract, in many cases, the
dollar return for the milliwatts produced when you have
significant haul costs. But we're looking far beyond just
electricity generation, torrefied wood, it's a way to,
basically a replacement for coal. Nano technology, cellulosic
nano technology, we can build car frames and, you know, put in
concrete to lighten the load. There's multiple other options
that we are getting near to some. We have the technology. How
we scale it up to be marketplace is the next bridge that we're
working on.
Senator McSally. Okay, thanks.
The Phase 2 RFP has been delayed multiple times. Now that
it is out for review, the due dates and contract award dates
have been delayed multiple times also. Now some of the delays
are largely due to listening to stakeholders and improving the
RFP which is commendable, but it is important that we adhere to
an aggressive timeline. Can you just share on the record when
you expect the contract to be awarded at this point?
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, you're exactly right. I was
personally involved in the decision to extend it based on
really informative feedback with potential bidders. And the
proposals are due in May. It's our top priority to evaluate in
the summer months and we will award in early fall and it's a
priority stay on that timeline.
Senator McSally. Okay, thank you. I am over time.
Ms. Christiansen. You're welcome.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chief, according to a recent USGS report about the
economics of forest restoration across the West, for each
million dollars that we invest in landscape-scale forest
restoration programs, communities actually see more than $2.2
million in economic output. Not only do these projects bring
jobs and livelihoods to rural economies, but they protect our
drinking water, and they decrease the risk of wildfire not only
on those lands but in the adjacent communities. Yet in this
budget request, you have zeroed out the collaborative forest
landscape restoration program, zero.
For a little context, this program has treated roughly
55,000 acres in recent years on the Santa Fe National Forest
alone. Oftentimes, this is several times more, from two to four
times more acres, than our timber program touches. Budgets are
a statement of priorities and values. What I want to know is
why this Administration doesn't value this critical restoration
tool more?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I really appreciate how you
framed that question because you're absolutely right, the
multiple benefits of forest restoration, what's created in
communities, this nation, the nation's forests provide over 60
percent of the drinking water for the U.S. It really is
profound.
With that said, as I said in my opening statement, some
difficult choices and tradeoffs were made in this budget
submission and we are committed to the collaborative spirit of
shared stewardship, investing in priority work to get outcomes
that are important for the particular states and communities in
these forest communities. And I'd be happy to work with you as
you all move forward.
Senator Heinrich. I just don't see a zero as a tradeoff. I
would point out that businesses in the State of New Mexico are
now funding more of this kind of landscape scale restoration
than the entire Federal Government proposal in your budget.
That says something about priorities and values.
And in addition, I was dismayed to see the budget request,
yet again, cuts the Land and Water Conservation Fund to nearly
nothing, $14 million in total, zero for the Forest Service. It
actually takes $8 million in existing projects away from the
BLM. And I can't tell you how popular that program is with the
entirety, practically, of my constituency. It is the one place
where you get sportsmen, conservationists and outdoor rec
enthusiasts all on the same page because it is the most
effective program for creating access and protecting habitat. I
don't understand why access and habitat are not priorities in
this budget.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, I do hear you, Senator. This
Administration, again, it took some really prioritized focus
and acquiring new lands was not the priority because we need to
take care of the lands, the roads and the systems that we have
and that was the choices and tradeoffs that we made.
Senator Heinrich. Oftentimes, what that means is that there
are public lands that the public cannot access and we have
heard a lot of rhetoric out of this Administration about
access. LWCF is the tool to move that from rhetoric to reality
on the ground.
I am down to a minute here, so I want to get one last
question in and this relates to what Senator Manchin raised
around the maintenance backlog. We have a number of campgrounds
in New Mexico that have been closed for years. One was damaged
in a 2012 fire and still has not reopened. I don't think that
is unique to my state. With the current funding structure, how
long would it take the Forest Service to work through its
maintenance backlog and get some of those campgrounds reopened?
Ms. Christiansen. You know, for our roads and trails, and I
can get back to you specifically on the campground piece, but
for our roads and trails, we would need $445 million per year
for the next ten years in addition to the, what's appropriated
to clear the backlog.
Senator Heinrich. And what is the number this year in your
budget?
Ms. Christiansen. The number this year, I can get--it's
around, let me get that for you. It's $453 million.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
The Chairman. Senator Gardner.
Senator Gardner. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you,
Director Christiansen for being here today and your service
today.
You may have addressed this already in previous questions,
I apologize for repeating a question if it was already asked.
About ten months ago we talked about the Aerial Firefighting
Use and Effectiveness Study. A year ago, we said that it would
be coming soon. The year before that we said it would be coming
soon. The year before that we said it would be coming soon. Is
it coming soon? The year before that it was coming soon.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, that is deserved, that
question is and I guarantee you it is coming soon. I
understand----
Senator Gardner. But what is taking so long?
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, you know, I'd be glad to come in
and give you a really detailed briefing, but let me give you
the high points. We completely had--didn't know what we didn't
know on the complexity of this kind of study. This was going on
while we were going to the next generation of air tankers. Of
course, we have to put the remote sensing devices on these air
tankers. The questions, the performance measures, the data
standards, the----
Senator Gardner. Well, let me just stop you. So when you
say coming soon, is that next year I get to ask you again or--
--?
Ms. Christiansen. No, this spring.
Senator Gardner. This spring.
Ms. Christiansen. This spring, guarantee you.
Senator Gardner. Alright, so before June?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, sir.
Senator Gardner. Okay, thank you.
Over the last several years the Forest Service has seen a
40 percent turnover, as is my understanding, in staffing and 40
percent of the non-fire workforce has been either converted to
fire workforce or left the service altogether. Given this
current staffing situation, I would like to have a conversation
about what we are doing to fill in the gaps in non-fire
staffing, like law enforcement and fire prevention, and I want
to talk a little bit about what is happening in my own state.
In Summit County, Colorado, a population of 30,000 people,
they have now, they wrote a letter to me last year. They passed
a tax increase on themselves in the county, over $1 million a
year toward a variety of wildfire prevention and mitigation
strategies, including paying for six--they themselves, the
county, the people of the county, are taxing themselves to pay
for six seasonal forest service staff to conduct fire
prevention work on the Dillon Ranger District of the White
River National Forest, the busiest forest in our country. One
full-time, year-round, USFS, Forest Service employee working on
fire mitigation projects as Forest Service contractors
conducting fire mitigation timber cuts over time for fire
prevention patrols on Forest Service land by Summit County
Sherriff's office and fire mitigation projects on Summit County
open space adjacent to Forest Service land. Now that we have
the budget cap adjustment in place, is the Forest Service
looking to address the situations like the one I just described
in Summit County and throughout the State of Colorado?
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, we really appreciate that kind of
shared services collaboration. What the community is doing to
really step in and help fill those gaps, it's really
significant.
In regards to what we call the fire funding fix, we
absolutely appreciate the work of Congress that it stabilized
our budget so we aren't continuing to put more into fire, but
it really is the process of budget development and
appropriations process to increase the funding for those
services. So we really are looking forward to working with you
on that.
Senator Gardner. Will you be filling the gaps in the non-
fire staffing that I talked about in both law enforcement and
fire prevention?
Ms. Christiansen. It will fill the gaps to the extent that
we get appropriations to do so, Senator.
Senator Gardner. This will allow us so that we don't have
to have local counties doing tax increases to do the job of the
Forest Service?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator.
Senator Gardner. Thank you.
Obviously, I remain concerned with the number of air
tankers under contract with guaranteed availability to support
efforts around the country. I know there is a private study
that is being released this week which examined the Forest
Service's wildfire data between, I think, 2015 and 2019 showing
that when a large air tanker, a very large air tanker, is
deployed against a fire in the first four to six hours, fires
lasted an average of less than one day. But for far too many
fires in this country, that has not been the case, oftentimes
lasting 20 more days plus or significantly beyond that.
Billions of dollars are being shouldered by taxpayers,
businesses and the community as a result.
We don't have the study. So without that study how are you
justifying the number of air tankers you have come up with for
exclusive use contracts and can you provide this Committee with
the data informing that decision and are you confident that
during a bad fire you are--there is sufficient air tanker
capacity available to the Forest Service?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, I am confident, to answer the last
question first, and yes, we'd be glad to give you more detailed
information on how we really analyze those decisions.
I can guarantee you we have them, we will have the most air
tankers we've had in over ten years, this fire season. And
call-when-needed is, we can put those on as we see the fire
danger increasing, so it's not that we call 'em up and, you
know, we have to wait two days. We call 'em up as we see----
Senator Gardner. At a higher rate, right? That is a more
expensive contract?
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, but we, at a higher rate, but only
when we use them versus we have to pay them for a guaranteed
amount of time. So it's a bit of an art and a science, I will
say, on how we find the right balance to be responsive, to make
sure we have the right resources in aerial firefighting in the
uptick, but we're responsive with our budget and our spending.
Senator Gardner. Thank you. I have some additional
questions for the record.
Thank you, Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Wyden.
Senator Wyden. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chief, it is great to have you. Let me start with the
Wildfire Disaster Funding Act which, I think, most people
believe is the biggest change in firefighting policy in decades
and in effect, for those who didn't follow it, it basically
says we are going to fight the big fires from the disaster fund
and then we are going to liberate all that money to focus on
prevention. We wrote it, all of us were involved in it, we
wrote it in this room.
My first question is, what can you tell us, because this is
the first year of implementing this transformative law, how is
it going in terms of being able to liberate money to get at
this backlog that Senator Manchin and Senator Heinrich and
everybody else is asking you about? The backlog in my state
alone is 2.5 million acres of NEPA-ready, hazardous fuels/
prescribed fire projects. So my first question is how is it
going in terms of the first year when we really ought to have
new money liberated because we finally said we are not going to
have this bizarre policy where we keep raiding the prevention
money to fight big fires? How are we doing in terms of getting
that money out of the disaster fund to go after the backlog?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator. We do continue to
appreciate very much on--this is significant support and
leadership on this, it was profound and it is a fire funding--
oh, thank you--[mic was off] the fire funding fix is profound
and I do have to clarify something. So it stabilized the Forest
Service constrained budget. So we weren't--we didn't have to,
the ten-year average that we have to fund first with fire, that
has been stabilized, as you know, to the 2015 ten-year average.
So we don't have that continued erosion. That isn't very
helpful.
The second part of the fire funding fix was because we have
the disaster relief account now for the big fires, the chances
of having to borrow mid-season are, you know, reduced,
practically won't happen. But the idea that we have gotten
additional monies, that's what this conversation is about, that
is the Appropriations Act. What we are doing in the Forest
Service is to say, we're going to prioritize, we're going to be
a good investment and the funds that this budget process, this
appropriation process, gives us, we are going to put to good
use and you're going to see a good investment.
Senator Wyden. I am very much for the new money and that is
why my colleagues' questions were good.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
Senator Wyden. I also believe that if you are no longer
raiding prevention, you can use prevention money to hit these
targets. I would like to ask you to provide us month-to-month
treatment targets for reducing hazardous fuels, at least in my
state, but I think my colleagues are going to ask as well. Can
you do that, give us month-to-month treatment targets for
reducing hazardous fuels?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, I might ask if we could do
it quarterly because there's a little bit at play. We set
quarterly targets is how we do it, but if you need month, we'll
do it by month.
Senator Wyden. Great. I think, because this is becoming the
fire season, if we could say, the first couple of months we
need monthly targets, and after that we will do quarterly. Is
that agreeable to you?
Ms. Christiansen. Okay, yes.
Senator Wyden. Great.
Ms. Christiansen. And I would like to just point out that
this budget does propose a $65 million increase in hazardous
fuels.
Senator Wyden. I saw that. Okay.
Second, Senator Manchin and I have been very interested in
finding some fresh approaches to deal with prescribed fire and,
as we always do, we talk with the Chair because we always try
to work on these issues together. But as you know, there is a
lot of interest in prescribed fire, streamlining the regulatory
hurdles, developing a prescribed fire workforce. How are we
doing on that?
Ms. Christiansen. We are making, well, we are making far
more progress on getting more prescribed fire done on the
ground, particularly in the West where we need to break through
those cultural and social barriers. In the Pacific Northwest,
in particular, we increased our prescribed fire activity. As
you know, in many, many of our landscapes across this country,
fire is the number one treatment tool and we've got to keep
increasing.
Senator Wyden. Let me do this because I am almost out of
time. If you could give me a written answer on the prescribed
fire plan. Senator Manchin and I want to work together----
Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
Senator Wyden. ----with all of our colleagues on both
sides.
Last question. You might want to give this to me in writing
because I am over my time. I am very interested, as you and I
have talked about, in looking at new technologies in terms of
firefighting, particularly one that I hear a lot about is the
ability to fly helicopters at night or in low visibility. If
you can give us a short answer, I can probably get another 15
seconds out of my friend the Chair, but you will also give me a
response in writing on these technologies.
Ms. Christiansen. I will.
The short answer is we have been, we've had night flying
operations in Southern California for the last handful of
years. We learned a lot. It is an investment, but we have some
known, very known capabilities in the right place to use night
flying operations.
Senator Wyden. Great.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Daines.
Senator Daines. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chief, good to have you here and thanks for testifying on
the Forest Service budget. It was also really good to be
discussing these issues at that Forestry Forum we had two weeks
ago and our meeting yesterday with you and your team and thanks
for being here again today. I was encouraged to find the Forest
Service budget prioritize wildfire suppression, shared
stewardship principles, increasing efficiencies and set a very
quantifiable target of timber output target of four billion
board feet.
However, if that is the good news, here is one of my major
concerns. I believe it is unacceptable that the Administration
continues to eliminate funding for the Land and Water
Conservation Fund, known as LWCF. LWCF is a critical tool in
Montana to protect and enhance our public and recreational
access to our public lands. In fact, I, along with 52 other
Senators, have co-sponsored bipartisan legislation to make the
LWCF funding permanent and will continue pushing for full
mandatory funding for LWCF in working across the aisle with my
colleagues on getting our important bill across the finish
line. Unfortunately, there are not too many things that unite
Congress anymore. As we saw earlier last year, public lands do,
and I think this is one of the pieces of legislation that will.
Sixty-two percent of Montanans stated that wildfires
threatening homes and property are a serious problem. We see
the effect of that certainly breathing the smoke in the
summertime. This should come as no surprise as there are 1.6
million acres in the wildland urban interface that are at high
risk of wildfire. I do appreciate the budget prioritizes public
safety by requesting robust funding for wildfire suppression
and important vegetation management; however, it is litigation,
litigation from fringe groups, that continues to delay time-
sensitive wildfire risk reduction projects.
There is one lawsuit currently jeopardizing over 130
projects in Montana alone. This particular case is one of many
copycat lawsuits that follow the Ninth Circuit's Cottonwood
decision. This court decision established a new procedural
requirement that amounts to a mere paperwork exercise with no
benefit. Even the Obama Administration agreed that this case,
and I quote, ``had the potential to cripple forest
management.'' That is right out of the Obama Administration. We
were working this when he was President, and they were spot on.
The impact of this case has tied up hundreds of projects
damaging the health of our forests and threatening jobs. In
fact, just last month, in Townsend, Montana, Broadwater County,
70 Montanans were laid off when RY Timber was forced to close a
mill citing chronic timber supply challenges exacerbated by
litigation. The irony is, as you stand at that mill, you are
looking at thousands, tens of thousands, hundred thousands of
acres of forested land and our public lands, our national
forests, and we can't go in to do some commonsense thinning
that reduces the risk of wildfire and keeps these folks
employed. As with any mill closure this will surely have a
ripple effect in the community. These are not prosperous
communities. These are important, good paying jobs and the
families are devastated.
My question, Chief, is can you explain the impacts of
Cottonwood and do you believe there is a conservation benefit
to this new requirement?
Ms. Christiansen. The consequences are severe, I will say
that up front. It's--we are committed to do our environmental
and our Endangered Species Act due diligence consultation. But
this Cottonwood decision is duplicative in that it requires us,
anytime there's any new information on a forest land management
plan, that's the general plan that we lay out for every 15 to
20 years, and it requires us to consult on any new information.
When we are going to consult on any project we're going to
directly do on the ground. So, it's duplicative. It takes
numerous resources away from getting work done on the ground,
but worse, it just prevents the work getting done, the
resiliency in the forest to protect communities and the way of
life of public lands in Montana.
Senator Daines. How does litigation impact wildfire
reduction project and overall, the visitor's experience to our
national forests?
Ms. Christiansen. Well, it just prevents us from getting
the critical treatments on the ground because we're tied up in
litigation. We're enjoined. We can't move forward and
recreationists have to live with smoke. Communities have to
live with smoke. The economic prosperity of communities are
compromised, as you just talked about, with RY in Townsend.
It's a significant rippling impact and it's not just in Montana
anymore, it's in the bigger footprint of the Ninth Circuit.
Senator Daines. Yes, and I am out of time. My last point,
and I will wrap up here, is that my wife and I are avid
backpackers, like a lot of Montanans are. We are always, during
the August recess here, leaving DC and getting to spend time in
the high country in Montana. We literally have to watch the
fire reports to make sure we can get into some of the areas in
Southwest Montana to make sure they are open--back to the
impact of access to public lands.
Thanks for your testimony.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Daines.
Yes, it is, Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Yay, thank you.
Chief, as you know, biosecurity is of great importance to
Hawaii and the Pacific region and, of course, by protecting our
forests and environment from invasive species, we are also
reducing the likelihood that these pests make their way to the
mainland. Unfortunately, our current biocontrol facilities in
Hawaii that are utilized by both the state and Forest Service
are outdated and we are in need of a new state-of-the-art,
biosecurity research facility jointly owned and managed by the
state and federal partners, including the Forest Service, that
would allow our researchers to test different biocontrol
methods for combating some of the world's worst pests.
The state has allocated some $180,000 for planning and
scoping the possibility of a facility but federal support is
currently needed, and I would like your commitment to work with
me and my staff in exploring the possibility of a new
biocontrol research facility in Hawaii because we are the
invasive species capital of the country.
Ms. Christiansen. Gateway, how's that?
Senator Hirono. Gateway, yes, that's fine.
Ms. Christiansen. We appreciate your leadership on this and
Hawaii's stance on this, and I'd be happy to work with you to
see what we can do.
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
I also want to thank you for the interagency cooperation
that has gone into helping Hawaii combat a pathogen that has
been devastating the native ohia trees called Rapid Ohia Death.
You mentioned that our forests account for over a vast majority
of the nation's drinking water and that is certainly the case
with our ohia forests because they are part of watersheds.
Money from the state and private forestry account has been
critical to helping our folks on the ground in Hawaii address
Rapid Ohia Death (ROD). I am disappointed to see that the
President's budget makes severe cuts to our program that is so
important to Hawaii, and I will work with my colleagues in
Congress to see that the program is funded more adequately.
Along those lines, I appreciate your support for a forest
pathologist at the Institute of Pacific Islands Forestry, but
Hawaii is in desperate need of that position becoming permanent
so they can support our state biosecurity plan and help address
existing and emerging pests and pathogens such as Rapid Ohia
Death and support for this position would be leveraged with
funds from the University of Hawaii and the State of Hawaii. I
would like your commitment to work with me and my staff to see
about establishing a permanent, jointly-funded forest
pathologist in Hawaii.
Ms. Christiansen. We'd be happy to work with you on that.
We have some great scientists out there on biocontrols and
other things and it's--there's a great multiagency effort and
we are committed to be, remain a part of that.
Senator Hirono. Good.
The President's budget proposes closing the Pacific
Southwest Research Station which oversees research and
development in California, Hawaii and the U.S.-affiliated
Pacific Islands and merging it with the Pacific Northwest
Research Station. And while the Forest Service knows that this
closure will not result in the cessation of research in that
region, it is not clear what this proposal specifically means
for the future of the Institute of Pacific Islands Forestry, or
IPIF, in Hawaii. Will you have experts on your staff brief my
staff on any impacts of this proposed closure on the Pacific
Islands as well as the future that the Forest Service envisions
for IPIF?
Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely. I have been out to IPIF and I
have personally seen how integrated they are, and we'd be happy
to work with your staff.
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
You noted that you are making progress on the issue of
preventing sexual harassment and retaliation in the Forest
Service and there were a number of recommendations made in the
IG report because this is an ongoing problem for the Forest
Service, and you did say that while you are improving that it
takes time to improve the culture. I was curious to know,
seeing the list of the report, where on January 5th, 2020, the
agency, your agency, closed about 88 percent of the 2,215 cases
of harassment reported since August 2017. I realize that you
are focusing on your hiring methods, the kind of questions that
you ask of your potential hires, you are really focusing on the
need to report these instances and the training and, of course,
the investigation of this kind of misconduct. But I am curious
to know, who is doing the harassing and who are the victims of
the harassment? I take it they are all employees. So is it your
male employees who are harassing the female employees? Is that
the usual circumstance?
Ms. Christiansen. We can get you more specific
demographics. There's, you know, harassment is, it knows no
boundaries. I would say the preponderance is between gender,
but it is not only--we have specific demographics on what kind
of lines of work and we're studying that and looking at the
trend lines and it's a bigger conversation than now but I'd be
glad to get back to you with more information.
Senator Hirono. Yes, so I am interested in how, who is
actually, you know, doing the harassing, what you are doing in
terms of diversifying your employee base and all of those kinds
of aspects.
Ms. Christiansen. I'd really love to come visit with you.
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Cantwell.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chief Christiansen, great to see you. Thank you so much.
Obviously, no one can argue that nationally and
internationally the fire seasons are with us everywhere from
Australia to Alaska, so a lot is going on. One of the things I
am pleased to see is there is $15 million in the President's
budget to implement the Technology Advancement Act that Senator
Gardner and I pushed through. That is everything from GPS
locators to real-time fire information. We did a great
demonstration of this in Spokane that I loved. We were at a
fire station, literally, in the garage of the fire station, and
they lit a can outside. But you couldn't see the fire, it was
hidden. But the heat detection sensor that we had, an aerial
sensor, could detect it and showed it on our monitor. There was
a ``hot spot'' and we got to get right on it.
We are just such a firm believer in this technology. What
can we do now to speed up the deployment of this technology?
CBO had estimated that you could do the whole Wildfire
Management Technology Act for just $8 million. So we feel like
a lot can go forward this fire season. What can we get done
with that money?
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, the money is really appreciated and
it, you know, to whatever levels Congress does choose to fund,
we stand ready to be able to implement. Now, you know, funding
it is the highest priority on being able to have the resources,
but we have to make sure we invest in the right way. So we are
moving out now, regardless of whether these funds come forward
or not, on doing some pilot tests around these resource
trackers.
The technology is changing, you know, weekly and so we're
working interagency in three, we have three different scopes of
questions in these three major pilots across the country with a
incident--a command team to 100 percent of the fire personnel
in another region, across agencies and there are different test
types so that we can stand ready should we get the funding to
deploy. We know the best investment and the best operating
procedures, and we're going to use existing funds to move that
forward.
Senator Cantwell. Well, I appreciate that and I would think
that then when you look at the maps for what we get in a few
months here and further into the early summer, you will look at
that and make technology use projections based on where you
think hot spots are or the biggest threats or----
Ms. Christiansen. Well, on the resource trackers that's
more where we are considering what kind of fire activity we
think we'll have in those areas, but it's capability, it's the
readiness of the cross, you know, the multiple agencies are
affected. So we're deploying that now because it's a little bit
more of a test that we need to get stood up now.
Senator Cantwell. What about the GPS trackers for
firefighters? That seems very easy to deploy and----
Ms. Christiansen. Well, that's what I'm talking about, the
tracker, the resource tracker, the GPS tracker.
Senator Cantwell. Okay, so that is just what--just that
resource. Okay.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, yes. And then we're, you know, we've
been working on----
Senator Cantwell. I mean, that is very low cost, right?
Ms. Christiansen. I wouldn't call it low cost with the
amount of infrastructure that you have to put in place and the
training and the capacity and maybe in the, you know, if we're
talking interagency, we're talking 15,000 fire personnel and we
put it on our, what I call, our militia that do do fire,
there's another 10,000. So it's not low cost.
Senator Cantwell. Right, but obviously we are looking for
people when they are deployed not when they are--we have enough
other problems, right?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
Senator Cantwell. So we are just looking for the deployed
individuals----
Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely.
Senator Cantwell. ----and tracking them.
Ms. Christiansen. But in a high fire season, interagency,
we can have 26,000, 27,000 folks deployed.
Senator Cantwell. So, okay. And all at the same time?
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah and peak parts of seasons, oh, yes.
I mean, that's getting up there and breaking the record. We're
usually around, depending on what kind of fire activity, we're
usually, you know, anywhere from 5,000 to 20,000 in the height
of a fire season but it's pressed close to 30,000.
Senator Cantwell. Well, I would hope, you know, obviously
we have lost Northwest people in some significant fires over
the last two decades.
Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
Senator Cantwell. And we definitely would also like to see
the weather forecaster, smoke forecasters, on the ground in
those situations because we think that is critical as well.
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, Senator, if I could just quickly
interrupt on the wildfire modernization piece. Our researchers
are ready to deploy an app that will, you know, every
firefighter has a smartphone that would give real-time escape
routes and safety zones on their app as they move about. So
there's all kinds of other capacities with this that we're
growing.
Senator Cantwell. Well, we will look forward to, obviously,
being large and vocal advocates for this budget----
Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
Senator Cantwell. ----and doing everything we can to help
you get these things deployed. We think the challenge just
grows every fire season, so we definitely want you to have
every tool and are glad that you are going to embrace the
modernization with or without this $15 million, and clearly we
want to get you those resources.
Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, and Senator Cantwell, thank you
for what you have been doing on that technology front. We
appreciate it.
Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Chief, welcome. It is good to see you and your team here
and your staff, and thank you for all the good work that you
do.
I want to echo the comments that were made by the
Chairwoman along with my colleagues and Senator Cantwell. From
Nevada, wildfires--whether they are in the forest or
rangeland--are a big issue for us as well. What I would like to
talk to you about is local cooperative fire agreements.
Ms. Christiansen. Oh, yeah.
Senator Cortez Masto. Yes. I have had conversations at a
wildfire summit in my state, talking with our state and local
folks and, as you know, the agreements between the Forest
Service and our state and local governments are to aid and
mutual assistance and resource transfer for local and regional
wildfires. But with the intensity of the fires we see, now
longer fire seasons are in sight, we literally, in Nevada, a
fire is occurring every month now. We are seeing,
unfortunately, that happening.
Can you talk and discuss the limitations you are
experiencing with these cooperative fire protection agreements
and what long-term solutions should we be considering to
improve the relationships? And let me give you an example. I
think the Forest Service staff wrote an April 2019 issue
summary noting the limits current law provides these agreements
and the potential need to reassess how these are implemented.
Maybe I am catching you off guard and if you can't respond to
that now, I would love a follow-up on if there is something we
need to do to address these local agreements.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes. I can address it generally. I want
to make sure what part of limitations you're referring to. So
that we'll, we'd be happy to follow up on that, the particular,
because there could be a couple ways this, these limitations
are.
Let me just say that even the U.S., who is coveted around
this globe, that we have the world's best wildfire response, we
cannot do it unless we have capacity at the local, the state
and the federal level. So with my background, 30 years in state
government that tended to those local arrangements, I'm
steadfast and that is how we have built this system. So all
parts need to function. The limitations, I believe, are in how
we deploy the local resources way outside of their
jurisdiction.
Senator Cortez Masto. Correct. That is correct.
Ms. Christiansen. Okay, that's the part of the limitation.
And you know, how we help each other within their jurisdictions
or close to their jurisdictions, is solid. But that there's
interpretations about the Federal Government being the banker
to, you know, send people all over is what we're getting audits
about. And so, we'd be glad to, you know, do some more briefing
about that, understanding and would love to have your help on
how we look at how we keep a continuous firefighting effort
across this nation.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. What we will do is look
forward to a follow-up with maybe you or your staff to talk a
little bit more about it.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, absolutely.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I appreciate that.
In Nevada, our Air National Guard is one of the, I guess,
for lack of a better word----
Ms. Christiansen. MAFFS.
Senator Cortez Masto. MAFFS, our Modular Airborne Fire
Fighting Systems, that is happening and we are very proud of
it. They come and talk regularly. Thank you for the
partnership. I have been there. I have toured it. I have seen
not only what they bring to the wildfire suppression, not just
in Nevada, but in the region, right?
I guess what I am hearing, and I have concerns about this,
so I would love for you to address this. One, can you comment
on the impact that the National Guard's current C-130H aircraft
has had on firefighting efforts? Then I am hearing there is a
potential that, as you know, our Air National Guard is looking
to migrate to the C-130J and they are very excited about it,
but now we are hearing funding for that aircraft may be
diverted to the border wall and not go toward the newer
aircraft with the newer technology that will help with this
aerial firefighting throughout the region. Could you address
that and what you are hearing and the concerns that we are
hearing from our Air National Guard in Northern Nevada?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, thank you, Senator.
I can say that the MAFFS capability, the mobile air frames,
are the absolute important, we call it the surge capacity, when
the private sector, we've maxed them out and we need additional
capacity. MAFFS have time and time again been the critical
resources that we call on. We love the partnership.
I cannot speak to the DoD funding, but I can say the Hs,
the 130Hs are capable. The 130Js are a more modern platform
that give us more options and effectiveness in fire response.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I appreciate that. I look
forward to following up with your staff as well.
Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Chief, I mentioned in my opening statement that while I
appreciate the good efforts that the Forest Service is doing as
you are working through this Roadless Rule and its application
in Alaska, I mentioned that the effects of lifting it, I
believe, have been misconstrued. I would ask you to speak,
specifically, to what you believe the effect of lifting the
Roadless Rule will actually be projected to have on the Tongass
timber program.
And I will put it into context. We recognize that the DEIS
projects that a full exemption would add approximately 185,000
acres to the timber base for future timber production. There
are some who, again, are opposed to any level of timber harvest
in the Tongass and they are saying this is what will be open
and available, and yet Forest Service projections are that just
18,000 of those acres would be harvested over the next 100
years.
I am trying to put it into context. As I have been with
folks in the Southeast this past week, I was reminding them
that with the designations that are already in place, you have
a full 80 percent of the Tongass that will never, ever, ever,
ever be available for harvest. Can you speak to what the effect
actually will be on the Tongass timber program?
Ms. Christiansen. I can speak to that, yes, of course. And
let's just put into context that the Tongass is far more than
just timber. It's a multiple use forest. It provides many, many
services.
The Chairman. Tourism, access for renewable----
Ms. Christiansen. Energies.
The Chairman. ----energy projects.
Ms. Christiansen. Systems.
So that's the context and timber is a piece of it and
there's--so that's one slice of the analysis.
The Chairman. Right.
Ms. Christiansen. And what the Roadless Draft Environmental
Impact Statement looks at is where it is available. It doesn't
project what would happen in a harvest. We are still bound by
the Forest Plan, and then the Forest Plan guides the amount of
harvest and then, of course, each particular activity needs to
be analyzed and the amount of harvest----
The Chairman. So it is access, it is access.
Ms. Christiansen. It's access, Senator.
The Chairman. It is reasonable access to all of the
stakeholders.
Ms. Christiansen. Of course, yes.
The Chairman. Yes.
Ms. Christiansen. So the Roadless Rule itself does not
dictate timber harvest. It dictates availability only, and
there's the Forest Land Management Plan and then specific
project proposals that would come after that.
The Chairman. I think this is part of the confusion. For
timber this is really about the flexibility to make economic
sales rather than increase harvests. Is that correct?
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah.
The Chairman. You want to have the flexibility so that you
can have the sales. I mean, we spoke earlier, and you
recognized that the Prince of Wales project and the fact that a
great deal of time and commitment had been made for that to
accommodate that collaborative process, and then it gets
stalled out because of litigation. So effectively, we put a lot
of eggs in that basket and now we are seeing the situation that
we have on the ground which, again, is the lowest timber
harvested in, since we have been harvesting timber at just 5.6
million board feet. I think it is important to put in the
context of the whole, what we are really talking about here
with the proposal to lift the Roadless Rule.
I also mentioned, and you raised as well, the impact of the
China timber tariffs. Retaliatory tariff rates on spruce were
as high as 25 percent last year. We are the only national
forest, the Tongass is the only national forest allowed to
export whole logs and where we are sitting and where our market
is, Asia, is pretty critical to us.
The irony here is that those who were told by Forest
Service and others that you need to move away from old growth,
you need to move to that second harvest, that young growth,
that market, that they went out to build just happened to be a
Chinese market. So they did everything that they were
encouraged to do. Go find new markets. Move to a different--
move away from old growth and yet, now they are in a situation
where they are being left without a market at all. Is the
Forest Service looking into possibly reexamining the stumpage
rates to offset some of the effects of these Chinese tariffs?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, I'm very well aware of this major
dilemma, Senator, and we are looking at everything within our
law, our authorities of how we can do adjustments to
accommodate these stumps, these stumpage rates. We're
continuously looking at this.
The Chairman. Yes, this is a real challenge for us and,
again, it is not something that we, perhaps, could have
anticipated. But again, it is just the height of irony that
those who felt they were being pushed out of one area did as
was proposed and now they are sitting here, perhaps in a more
desperate situation than anybody else.
Last question for you and, again, I think this just
reflects on so many of the issues that we have as we are
dealing with the Forest Service. They say, okay, move away from
old growth. We move away from old growth to young growth, the
market gets shut down in China. They say well, focus on
tourism, focus on that aspect of our forest which we are all
about. We have extraordinary opportunities, but the complaints
that we are hearing from recreation groups who have to wait
months, sometimes years, to obtain a permit from the Forest
Service in order to really enjoy them is again, yet, part of
the continuing frustration.
When I was up in the state last week a constituent informed
my staff that he has been waiting three years, three years for
a permit to guide tourists on a hike to a scenic spot on
Admiralty Island there in the Tongass. The hike is a mere 20
steps from a state-owned beach. So the frustration here is you
say you can't harvest--we don't harvest. Look to tourism
opportunities--but we are waiting years for permits. Now I know
that in the past we have been able to blame some of the lack of
staffing to move these permits through because of what was
going on with fire borrowing, but we are beyond that now.
But I am still told that we have not recovered in the state
in terms of the budget cuts that had moved forward some years
back. There was agreement that Alaska took a heavier hit than
most other areas, and we included language in the
appropriations bill to try to rectify and adjust some of that.
But we still continue to have challenges in being able to meet
the staffing needs.
I met with Earl Stewart when I was up there, and we are
looking to perhaps utilizing the ANILCA local hire a little bit
better. But it is a challenge for us and as Forest Service has
struggled to meet this challenge, Alaska has been on the short
end of the stick when it comes to processes that work for not
only the local people but those who are coming up from outside
who want to avail themselves to tourist and recreational
opportunities within the Tongass.
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I do hear your concern and I
know it's not enough, but we are making progress. We've reduced
the backlog of expired permits and those that are waiting for a
new permit. We've set a priority. We are doing the hiring, the
ANILCA local hire, and thanks to the fix that you did a few
years back, that really makes it viable and resourceful for us.
We're doing Centers of Excellence around growing the capacity
and special use permits. We're streamlining our processes.
There's several things we're doing.
I'll leave it there because Americans want to use these
forests and we need to give them access and that's a, it's an,
I mean, through some kind of, these are usually outfitter and
guides. We have over 8,000 outfitters and guides across the
system. It's really important that we be responsive to give
them the access. So we are prioritizing the permits. We've made
progress. We're doing additional hires. We're convening,
there's some places where there's some conflict between big
game hunting and the cruise industry. We've convened some local
capacity to work out who's where and what. We're investing in--
you and I were at Anan Wildlife Observatory and Mendenhall in
some of the critical infrastructure. We do try to stick with
our commitment that enjoying the Tongass and the Chugach
National Forests is part of our duty of delivering our mission,
and we will stay on it. I'm sorry to hear there's a three-year
backlog, and I'd love to personally look at what that situation
is.
The Chairman. Well, maybe what I can suggest is that you
and I have an opportunity for a more detailed review----
Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
The Chairman. ----of some of these issues that have
presented themselves as sticking points.
Ms. Christiansen. I'd be happy to.
The Chairman. With that, Senator Cortez Masto, did you have
any follow-up?
Senator Cortez Masto. I do, to just address this issue
because I do agree, as we have Humboldt-Toiyabe which is the
largest national forest in the Lower 48, very proud of it. But
I noticed there is an 18 percent decrease in the forest and
rangeland research account, and it proposes to eliminate
research efforts related to wildlife, fish and recreation. How
does that impact, that decrease, how does it impact what the
Chairwoman was just talking about, the outdoor recreation that
we want to promote, continue to support in our forest land?
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, thank you for that question. It
would, the reduction in the research, recreation research,
would impact our ability to do the capacity studies, the
interface, the social trends and the biophysical capacity that
the landscape have for the right kind of use on the right kind
of land. We would not have those resources available to us to
manage forward.
Senator Cortez Masto. Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
The Chairman. Chief, thank you for being here this morning.
I know that folks will probably have follow-on questions.
Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
The Chairman. We would appreciate your responses, and I
will look forward to my meeting with you as well.
Ms. Christiansen. Look forward to it.
The Chairman. With that, the Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:32 a.m. the hearing was adjourned.]
APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
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