[Senate Hearing 116-347]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 116-347
BROUILLETTE NOMINATION
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
to
CONSIDER THE NOMINATION OF DAN R. BROUILLETTE TO BE SECRETARY OF ENERGY
__________
NOVEMBER 14, 2019
__________
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
_________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
39-872 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021
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COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho RON WYDEN, Oregon
MIKE LEE, Utah MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
STEVE DAINES, Montana BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
CORY GARDNER, Colorado MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
MARTHA McSALLY, Arizona ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
Brian Hughes, Staff Director
Kellie Donnelly, Chief Counsel
Lucy Murfitt, Deputy Chief Counsel
Sarah Venuto, Democratic Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Alaska.... 1
Cassidy, Hon. Bill, a U.S. Senator from Louisiana................ 1
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
West Virginia.................................................. 6
WITNESSES
Cruz, Hon. Ted, a U.S. Senator from Texas........................ 2
Kennedy, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from Louisiana................ 3
Brouillette, Hon. Dan R., nominated to be Secretary of Energy.... 7
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Air Conditioning Contractors of America:
Letter for the Record........................................ 81
Alabama Petroleum Council, et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 83
American Chemistry Council:
Statement for the Record..................................... 86
American Electric Power:
Letter for the Record........................................ 87
American Nuclear Society:
Statement for the Record..................................... 88
Brouillette, Hon. Dan R.:
Opening Statement............................................ 7
Written Testimony............................................ 10
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 45
Cassidy, Hon. Bill:
Introduction................................................. 1
Chamber of Commerce of the United States of America:
Letter for the Record........................................ 89
Cortez Masto, Hon. Catherine:
Letter for the Record from Secretary Rick Perry addressed to
Senator Cortez Masto dated 4/24/19......................... 32
Cruz, Hon. Ted:
Introduction................................................. 2
Edison Electric Institute:
News Release for the Record.................................. 90
Kennedy, Hon. John:
Introduction................................................. 3
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
Opening Statement............................................ 6
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
Nuclear Energy Institute:
Statement for the Record..................................... 91
Semiconductor Industry Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 92
Southern Company:
Statement for the Record..................................... 93
United States Energy Association:
Statement for the Record..................................... 94
BROUILLETTE NOMINATION
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THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2019
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:40 a.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Lisa
Murkowski, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI,
U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA
The Chairman. Good morning, everyone. The Committee will
come to order.
We are here today to consider the nomination of Dan
Brouillette to be the Secretary of Energy. He is currently
serving as the Deputy Secretary of Energy, and I am certainly
one who believes that you have done an excellent job as second-
in-command to Secretary Perry. So we welcome you back to the
Committee.
It was good to have a discussion with you last week. I want
to thank you, really want to thank you, for all that you have
done at the Department, for your willingness to serve to this
point and for your willingness to step up in this new and
higher capacity.
We have our colleagues here this morning to introduce the
Deputy Secretary from both Texas and Louisiana. Mr. Deputy
Secretary, you should feel very welcome by having these
gentlemen next to you. We will start with Senator Cassidy up
here at the dais, followed by Senators Cruz and Kennedy to
introduce the Deputy Secretary this morning.
Senator Cassidy, if you would like to proceed and we do
have a full, full complement here this morning and a full house
behind you, so hopefully the introductions do not consume our
full morning, but we certainly welcome all the good comments.
Senator Cassidy.
STATEMENT OF HON. BILL CASSIDY,
U.S. SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA
Senator Cassidy. Madam Chair, what a wonderful way to tell
me to be brief.
[Laughter.]
But it is a privilege to represent my fellow Louisianan,
Dan Brouillette, as we consider his nomination to be Secretary
of the Department of Energy (DOE). He is eminently qualified as
the United States leads the world in all sorts of energy
issues.
As Deputy Secretary, he showed a commitment to energy
security. It is no surprise, as a Louisiana native, he
understands the importance of U.S. LNG exports creating jobs in
the United States but lowering greenhouse gas emissions abroad.
Dan has committed to innovation in ensuring that our national
labs are at the forefront of developing groundbreaking
technologies. He has served as the Assistant Secretary for
Congressional and Intergovernmental Affairs for the Department
of Energy under President George W. Bush, Staff Director for
the Energy and Commerce Committee under former Chairman Billy
Tauzin and is a member of Louisiana State Mineral and Energy
Board. Dan brings with him a wealth of knowledge and a unique
perspective. He is ideally suited for the job. I urge his
speedy confirmation and look forward to his Floor vote.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cassidy.
Let's turn to Senator Cruz. Welcome to the Energy
Committee.
STATEMENT OF HON. TED CRUZ,
U.S. SENATOR FROM TEXAS
Senator Cruz. Well, thank you, Madam Chairman. I am very
glad to be here. Madam Chairman, Ranking Member Manchin,
members of the Committee, it is my privilege to help introduce
Dan Brouillette to the Committee. By the way, with apologies to
my good friends from Louisiana, I am telling you right now,
Texas claims them and maybe we don't have to resolve that issue
here this morning.
Many of you know Dan as a dedicated advocate for American
energy. To those who don't yet know him well, I can tell you
that he is eminently qualified and will do an exceptional job
as the next Secretary of the Department of Energy.
Dan and his wife, Adrienne, have both served our country in
the United States Army. They proudly live in San Antonio,
Texas, where they've raised nine beautiful children, who you
see all arrayed behind Dan, much like an army preparing to
stand with their father.
[Laughter.]
After Dan served in the military, he transitioned into
working on energy issues as the Chief of Staff to the Committee
on Energy and Commerce in the U.S. House of Representatives.
From 2001 to 2003, Dan served as the Assistant Secretary of
Energy for Congressional Intergovernmental Affairs. He also
served on the Louisiana State Mineral and Energy Board for
three years, and for the past two and a half years Dan has been
serving as Deputy Secretary of Energy.
In addition to his years in public service, both in the
military and in government, Dan also has extensive private
sector experience. Dan spearheaded Ford Motor Company's
Domestic Policy Team as a Vice President at Ford. He also led
Public Policy at USAA as Senior Vice President, and that's
where Dan and I became friends when he was working and leading
that team in San Antonio. Dan has the qualifications, the
expertise, the relationships and the gravitas that a Secretary
of Energy needs to be effective.
This is a critical time for American energy as this
Committee knows well. We're currently experiencing an American
energy renaissance with the United States having now become the
number one producer of oil and the number one producer of
natural gas on the planet, surpassing both Russia and Saudi
Arabia in crude oil production. The United States has also
become a net exporter of natural gas, a milestone not reached
since 1957. So strong leadership at the Department of Energy is
needed now more than ever.
I'll say a final point. When it comes to tenacity, we want
Cabinet Secretaries to be strong, to be principled and able to
conquer enormous challenges. I believe Dan possesses those
characteristics and I would point to two data points to support
it. Number one, the nine beautiful children that Dan and
Adrienne have.
[Laughter.]
They have homeschooled, which if you want to talk about a
labor of love and passion and commitment, it is hard to think
of anything more daunting and for that matter, any government
bureaucracy pales compared to the joys and challenges of the
nine beautiful kids at home. Secondly, I had the good fun and
I'm going to out Dan for having joined me at game three of the
World Series here in DC where Dan and I both unabashedly
cheered for the Houston Astros.
[Laughter.]
We were the lone splashes of orange in a sea of red. And if
you want to test the measure of a man, he was willing to be
surrounded by screaming, exalted Nat's fans and happily cheered
on the Astros. We won that game, but alas, did not win the war.
Nonetheless, he will be a terrific Energy Secretary.
The Chairman. Well said, Senator Cruz, thank you very much
and thank you for joining us at the Committee.
We will now turn to our friend and colleague from
Louisiana, Senator Kennedy.
STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN KENNEDY,
U.S. SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA
Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member
and thanks to all of you for taking up the nomination of
Secretary Brouillette, who is now our Deputy Secretary. As you
know, he operates as basically the Chief Operating Officer of
the Department of Energy, and with your consent he will be
elevated to the position of Secretary.
Dan is not from Texas.
[Laughter.]
He is from Paincourtville, Louisiana, which, as you know,
is near Napoleonville, Louisiana. When Dan grew up in
Paincourtville--we both grew up in small towns--there were 211
people in Paincourtville. Now there are 911. I grew up in a
little town called Zachary which was slightly bigger when I
grew up. A small town is the way I've always described it, and
I'm so blessed to have grown up in a small town. A small town
is a place where everybody knows whose check is good and whose
spouse isn't.
[Laughter.]
Dan's a rock star as far as I'm concerned. We've seen such
a dramatic change in energy in this world in the last 25 years,
maybe even less. Dan has watched it. He's been part of it.
I remember our energy policy in America used to be okay,
we're going to buy as much oil as we can from countries that
hate us and through those sales, we're going to give them money
to buy weapons to try to kill us. Thankfully, the world has
changed. We've had a revolution in fossil fuels. Our oil and
gas industry, frankly with the Federal Government hanging all
over its back, went out and through technology has unleashed
enormous amounts of energy from shale.
But we also understand, and I don't want to get in the
debate about climate change, we also understand that glaciers
don't, melting glaciers don't lie. And so our policy now is to
look at alternative forms of energy--wind, solar, geothermal,
nuclear. Dan gets all that. He gets all that, in part, through
his experience. He and Adrienne are both veterans. Dan's a
veteran of service in our military. He's a veteran of service
in the state government level. He's a veteran of having served
Congressman Billy Tauzin in the House for which Dan
automatically has a place in heaven.
[Laughter.]
And he has served with distinction as Deputy Secretary.
He's a serious man. He exercises power intelligently, not
emotionally. He and Adrienne will make a great team, and he
will be an extraordinary Secretary of the Department of Energy
and this Louisianan has my wholehearted and unconditional
support.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, sir.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Kennedy.
Mr. Deputy Secretary, I think it is fine to have two
different states vying for your love and your attention. You
clearly have left impressions----
Senator Cruz. Alaska's not going to claim him now, is it?
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. Ah, I was going to include that, in part, as
part of my remarks. We won't claim him, but we will certainly
adopt him.
So gentlemen, both of you, thank you. We know that you have
tight schedules here this morning, but thank you for joining us
as part of the Committee and your welcoming introductions.
I am going to make some brief remarks, turn to Senator
Manchin, and then we will move to swearing you in, Mr.
Brouillette, and we will then hear your testimony which will
hopefully include more formal introductions of your family. We
certainly welcome all of them. It truly is a testament to you
and your wife, and to have them with you this morning is a real
treat.
I, for one, am very glad that you are here before us as the
President's nominee to be the Secretary of Energy. I think we
have seen during your time as Deputy Secretary, you have really
helped to create a solid agenda for the Department that has
been focused on the science and the technology. You have
brought us into the world of quantum and artificial
intelligence. I think you have been very responsive to the
Committee. You have been available to speak with members when
you have been asked to do so. My sense is that you have made a
good impression on just about everyone.
So when it was indicated that Secretary Perry was going to
be stepping down, you, to me, were the obvious choice to
replace Secretary Perry in what he refers to as the coolest job
he has ever had and I think you share that enthusiasm for this
important space.
I do appreciate your willingness to travel to, not only
places like Alaska, but to travel around to many of the states,
certainly to see the opportunities that a state like Alaska has
and see them firsthand. The first trip that you took following
your confirmation as Deputy Secretary was to join me in Alaska.
We took him out to the Chena Renewable Energy Fair where he was
able to see much of what you saw, Senator Manchin, and learn
about the potential for low temperature geothermal.
Senator Manchin. Like the blue lagoon?
The Chairman. No, no, no, we didn't do--that is not called
the blue lagoon.
[Laughter.]
The geothermal hot springs there at Chena, but also great
things like the Lettuce Grow Tower, just further evidence that
we can do more when it comes to food security.
The Deputy Secretary and I share Lettuce Grow Towers--I, in
my office, and I understand you, in your garage. So it all
comes together, but you came back. You came back this past
August. We visited Kwigillingok and Kongiganak--small, very
remote villages in Southwestern Alaska. You were in Anchorage
at CITC's Fab Lab. We got to get up very high looking out to
the volcano that we were observing. So you have been on some
pretty important and, I think, impressive field trips in my
state. You know that I am going to invite you back because
there is an awful lot more to be seen.
Broadening my focus a little bit and recognizing your role
here, should we confirm you, as I expect we will, to be at the
helm of the Department of Energy, this is an exciting time.
This country is a leading energy producer, as Senator Cruz has
mentioned, and really a disrupter of world markets. We are now
sending oil and LNG around the world. We are providing our
friends and allies with energy while creating jobs and
prosperity here at home. We are on the cutting edge of a number
of exciting technologies like advanced nuclear energy, carbon
capture and energy storage.
And through the Department's work, we have the opportunity
to really push out the boundaries of scientific discovery and
build on our status as a global leader in the field of energy.
We look to all the promise that our 17 national labs provide
and the committed professionals that are there who really work
in pursuit of these new discoveries. Really one of our nation's
biggest assets, these national labs are. Our research
capabilities continue to be the envy of the world, and our
challenge now is to ensure that it remains so.
It is no secret that the President's budget request for the
Department of Energy has fallen short of the expectations that
we have articulated here on this Committee. Congress has
rejected the Administration's funding levels each year,
instead, providing steady increases for widely-supported
programs like ARPA-E. So anticipating that you will be
confirmed, I will ask that you continue to fight for sufficient
funding for programs that pursue these technologies to make
energy cleaner, more reliable, more efficient and certainly
more affordable because that is what, I think, it is going to
take to sustain this energy dominance over the long-term.
I am going to turn now to my colleague, Senator Manchin,
for his comments. We'll have an opportunity to ask questions
throughout the morning. If members have additional questions
after this first round, we will ask that they be submitted by
the close of business today.
Senator Manchin, I turn to you.
STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
Senator Manchin. Thank you, Madam Chairman, for holding
this hearing on Mr. Brouillette's nomination to head the
Department of Energy. I want to welcome his family, his amazing
wife, Adrienne, and the nine beautiful children that you have,
Dan. You should be very proud. I know you both are and you also
are willing to serve at this important post for our great
nation. I enjoyed our discussion earlier this week and look
forward to continuing it today.
I also want to welcome with us today Dr. Brian Anderson
from Morgantown, West Virginia, Director of NETL. You have
visited Morgantown, and we want you to come back many more
times. NETL does a lot of good things. We want to be the cyber
headquarters for you, and I think we can do a tremendous job.
So we are going to put that little plug in, but I thank you so
much for that and your attention toward the importance of NETL.
The Secretary's job is an enormous one, as has been
mentioned and talked about, and I think all of us know the
Secretary of Energy is responsible for leading the world's
premier science and technology enterprise. We count on the
Department of Energy and its 17 national laboratories for the
cutting-edge research and technological breakthroughs needed to
meet our nation's energy needs and keep us strong and secure.
At the same time, the Secretary must oversee the nation's
nuclear weapons stockpile, which a lot of people don't
realize--that is the responsibility of the Department of Energy
and Secretary of Energy--our entire weapon stockpile. DOE makes
the fuel that propels the Nuclear Navy, which we have been
doing successfully for the greatest defense program in the
world, and it guards against nuclear proliferation.
The Secretary is also responsible for one of the world's
toughest environmental cleanups at Hanford and other Cold War
nuclear weapon sites and for overseeing the four power
marketing administrations that supply electricity produced at
federal dams to customers in 34 states. If that is not enough,
the Secretary is responsible for managing an annual budget of
close to $30 billion and for protecting the nation's energy
sector from cyberattack, which is under attack every day. And I
say, this is an enormous job.
But I thank Mr. Brouillette and I know he is up to the
task. I thank him for stepping forward. As a father of nine, he
is bound to be a skilled manager.
[Laughter.]
Of course, I give Adrienne a little bit more credit for
that.
He has a long history with energy issues at the Department
of Energy and, very importantly, he has visited NETL in
Morgantown, as I have said before, on more than one occasion.
He has served as a Staff Director at the House Energy and
Commerce Committee. At the Department he served as an Assistant
Secretary of Energy during the Bush Administration and, of
course, as a Deputy Secretary for the past two years. He knows
the Department, he knows Congress, and he knows the energy
issues facing our nation. He has also demonstrated his
managerial skills as a Vice President at Ford Motor Company and
as a Senior Vice President of USAA, the insurance and financial
services giant that serves members of our military and their
families.
This Committee has favorably reported and the Senate has
confirmed Dan twice before. Today I will be following up on our
conversations from earlier this week with a few questions about
energy security and your commitment to energy innovation at our
national labs.
Overall, I think the President has chosen wisely in
nominating you, Dan, for this job and I am pleased to support
your nomination.
So, again, Madam Chairman, I want to thank you for holding
this hearing today and I want to thank you, Dan and your entire
family, for being with us this morning and for your willingness
to serve. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Manchin.
Mr. Deputy Secretary, the rules of the Committee which
apply to all nominees require that they be sworn in connection
with their testimony. So I would ask that you please rise and
raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
give the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources shall
be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Mr. Brouillette. Yes.
The Chairman. You may be seated.
Before you begin your statement, I am going to ask you
three questions that we pose to each nominee that comes before
the Committee.
Will you be available to appear before this Committee and
other Congressional committees to represent Departmental
positions and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, I will.
The Chairman. Are you aware of any personal holdings,
investments or interests that could constitute a conflict or
create an appearance of such a conflict should you be confirmed
and assume the office to which you have been nominated by the
President?
Mr. Brouillette. No.
The Chairman. Are you involved or do you have any assets
held in blind trusts?
Mr. Brouillette. I do not.
The Chairman. Mr. Brouillette, you may proceed. Again, we
would encourage your introduction of family and welcome them to
the Committee, but we look forward to your statement this
morning and an opportunity to engage in some questions.
STATEMENT OF HON. DAN R. BROUILLETTE,
NOMINATED TO BE SECRETARY OF ENERGY
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, Chairman Murkowski, for that
kind introduction. On a stressful day like today, I am not sure
I can remember all of their names.
[Laughter.]
But I will do my best. If I turn around, starting from this
side, my daughter, Danielle, Jackie, Catherine, Julia, Addie,
my lovely wife, Adrienne, my youngest son, Christopher, Joelle,
Sam, and my oldest, Stephen. So that's the entire crew.
The Chairman. Welcome.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you.
The Chairman. Welcome to the entire crew and thank you for
being such great backup for your dad.
Mr. Brouillette. Well, they are fantastic.
Chairman Murkowski and Ranking Member Manchin, members of
the Committee and staff, I've known you for a long time. Thank
you for the opportunity to appear before you as President
Trump's nominee to be Secretary of Energy. I'd like to thank
each of you for being such strong partners for the U.S.
Department of Energy through the years and for your time today,
and I look forward to continuing to work with each of you
should I be confirmed by the Senate.
I'd also like to thank President Trump for his trust in me
and for Secretary Perry for his outstanding leadership of this
Department over the past three years.
The members of the Committee, as Deputy Secretary I am
proud to have been a small part of the incredible success that
we have seen in American energy. DOE and its 17 national
laboratories play a central role in advancing America's
leadership in scientific research and development, energy
technology and nuclear security. This enterprise is powered by
our nation's most talented and dedicated innovators including
117 Nobel laureates associated with our Department.
Seated behind me are some of the directors from our
national laboratories who I'd like to recognize for their
incredible leadership. We have with us today, Dr. Tom Zacharia
of Oak Ridge, Dr. Mark Peters of INL, Dr. Brian Anderson of
NETL, Dr. Martin Keller of NREL. When this team entered the
Department of Energy, America ranked number three in
supercomputing behind China and Switzerland. We knew America
could do better so we did better. We built the world's two
fastest supercomputers, Summit at Oak Ridge and Sierra at
Lawrence Livermore. Now America is back at number one.
But there's still much more to be accomplished. We're
committed to building three new exascale computing machines and
following the leadership of this Committee's development of the
National Quantum Initiative, we're evolving quantum science
capabilities. Our researchers are tackling the world's greatest
energy and scientific questions and constructing the next
generation of world class science facilities that are the
incubators for the world's cutting-edge R&D. That's the power
of discovery.
Through the power of innovation, the United States is
leading the world in both energy production and the reduction
of emissions. America has become the world's top producer of
oil and natural gas and soon we will become a net energy
exporter. Our energy story, however, also includes historic
growth in renewable energy. Today America is the second highest
generator of wind and solar energy in the world. We're also
reviving nuclear energy by developing advanced technologies
such as small modular reactors and advanced reactors.
We're also expanding the use of clean energy. Since 2005,
national greenhouse gases have fallen by 13 percent and power
sector emissions have fallen by almost 28 percent according to
the EPA. That's something that all Americans can be proud of.
And as we pursue this all-of-the-above energy strategy, we must
also continue to protect our energy infrastructure. So we've
developed the North American Energy Resilience model. It's a
first-of-a-kind tool that will allow us to better understand
infrastructure risks and improve system resilience in real
time.
While we are developing and protecting our energy
infrastructure, we're also making sustained progress in
cleaning up the nation's legacy of nuclear waste. I'm proud to
say that the last radioactive waste has been removed from
Hanford's K-Basin and stored safely away from the Columbia
River and we have with us today Brian Vance, from Hanford, who
is in charge of those operations.
While we're developing, I'm sorry, as we honor the
obligations of yesterday however, we must prepare for the
threats of tomorrow and the strengths of our nuclear security.
We're making significant progress modernizing our nuclear
weapons enterprise. While this progress is substantial, DOE is
poised to play an even larger role in developing an even
brighter future for America. I commit to each of you today that
if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed, I will work earnestly
with each of you to address the challenges and the
opportunities of today and tomorrow.
Chairman Murkowski, Ranking Member Manchin, thank you again
for the opportunity to be here. I ask the Committee for your
favorable consideration of the President's nomination, and I
look forward to answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Brouillette follows:]
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The Chairman. Thank you so very much for the statement and
let us begin with our questions.
I am known, whether it is on this Committee or on other
committees on which I serve, to ask nominees about their views,
their level of engagement on Arctic issues. The United States
is an Arctic nation, and I believe we have a significant
leadership role to play.
And as I ask this question, I also want to thank you
because it is, it has been under your direction and your
leadership at the Department of Energy that we have seen a
stepped-up interest from DOE toward Arctic-related interests.
The presence that we had in Reykjavik just six weeks ago at the
Arctic Circle Assembly, the number of national lab directors
that were part of that conference was noteworthy and generated
a buzz and a level of excitement about the role that the United
States is playing in this sector.
So I would ask for your comments on what you believe the
level of engagement should be on these Arctic-related issues
and as you speak to that, as I mentioned in my comments, you
have had an opportunity to come to Alaska to see some of the
benefits that come from an energy-producing state, not only
with our oil, our gas, our fossil resources, but what we host
with microgrids, with the wind that we saw in Kongiganak and
Kwigillingok, the solar, and everything that we are doing to
reduce our reliance on diesel-powered generation.
You saw the efforts of the Cold Climate Housing Research
Center and efforts to bring about greater efficiencies. And as
you know, I have been working to push for greater coordinated
research in the state, but more broadly to the Arctic in
general. I have been advocating for the Department to
reconstitute the Arctic Energy Office. So, within this context
of Arctic and the role of the Department of Energy, if you
could address that, please.
Mr. Brouillette. Sure, Madam Chairman, thank you.
To answer your question very straightforwardly and
succinctly, we need to do more, not less. So you can expect
from the Department of Energy, should I be confirmed as
Secretary, an increased engagement, not only in Alaska, but in
the Arctic region generally.
Some of the things that we have seen over the years--and we
all have different perspectives. I know some of you serve on
the Armed Services Committee, and the Arctic means a strategic
advantage to those who are focused on those issues. For those
of us in the energy business and the energy industry, if you
will, energy policy industry, we see the Arctic as a, not only
a resource for things like critical minerals and potentially
environmentally sensitive energy development, we see it for the
purpose of not just extracting, you know, oil and gas, I think
it's expanded beyond that, much, much further than we could've
imagined.
And what I mean by that is that, you know, as we move to a
world of more and more renewable energy, our ability to develop
battery storage becomes more and more critical and the minerals
that we currently receive today or we rely upon, I should say,
for the development of those types of batteries, we become
dependent upon nation-states who, quite candidly, do not have
our interests at heart. And the Arctic is potentially a
resource for those types of minerals.
I will tell you, from where I sit at the U.S. Department of
Energy, what you can expect from us is attendance at events
like the upcoming 2020 Geothermal Congress in Iceland. We will
have a strong and robust presence there. DOE will also help
lead, and this may sound a little bit counterintuitive for
those who are not familiar with Iceland or, you know, places in
the Arctic, we will lead a supercomputing congress in Iceland
in 2020. So we're very excited about that. We think that's
important. We think that outreach is important. Again, for
strategic reasons, but also for our energy development and our
energy security here in the United States.
The Chairman. Well, I thank you for that and I am sure that
we can anticipate further engagement and really enhanced
engagement because I should know, it is not just energy, it is
commerce, it is environment, it is the impact that we are
seeing from a rapidly changing part of the globe.
Very quickly here on the Office of Indian Energy (OIE). It
is one of the smaller offices there at DOE, but it certainly
has an outsize importance in my state. OIE is a key partner for
Native communities that really need to work to reduce their
high energy costs, and right now we have one DOE employee that
is there in the state. Years ago we got a commitment to
increase that. I know that you have seen this, but I am, once
again, seeking a commitment from you to recognize the potential
that we have within OIE and make sure that we are staffing
appropriately.
Mr. Brouillette. Madam Chairman, I'll give you two
commitments. One, we're going to expand the Office of Indian
Energy. We are currently in the market to hire two people
there. So that will be expanded. We will also open an Arctic
Office that will be fully staffed by the end of 2020. So I give
you those two firm commitments. I hope it demonstrates our
interest in and the strategic importance of the Arctic to the
U.S. Department of Energy.
The Chairman. The Arctic Energy Office, we think, is going
to be key, again, not only for the U.S. Arctic but, I think,
the Arctic as a whole. So we thank you for that.
Senator Manchin.
Senator Manchin. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Mr. Brouillette, the Secretary of Energy has a statutory
and legitimate role in establishing and implementing policies
relating to international energy issues. In that role,
Secretary Perry helped broker a deal to sell U.S. coal to
Ukraine and U.S. liquified natural gas as an alternative to
Ukraine's dependence on Russian gas. Unfortunately those
efforts have landed him in the middle of the House of
Representatives' investigation into the President's involvement
with Ukraine.
Can you state for the record, as Secretary Perry's Deputy,
what role you have played in any of this or if you have any
knowledge of this?
Mr. Brouillette. So, I think you have, perhaps, two
separate questions there, but I will tell you that Secretary
Perry and I have been deeply involved in the energy security,
not only in the United States, but of our European allies. And
in that context and in that position as Deputy Secretary, I
have helped to organize technical briefings for him as well as
for myself. We have focused on issues like the Nordstream
pipeline which is a Russian pipeline that is being built down
into the Northern part of Germany.
To counter those efforts and to lessen the dependence of
states like Germany, European states like Germany on Russian
gas, we have worked very, very hard to offer alternatives. Part
of that has been the construction of LNG export facilities here
in the United States. But it's also working with countries like
Germany, Croatia, Serbia, others in the proximity of Ukraine to
develop LNG import facilities. We've been very, very engaged
with them.
With regard to the country of Ukraine, we have worked with
them at their request to help them to interconnect their
electricity grid, their pipeline grid. And in order to do that,
they need to meet the requirements of what is known as the
third energy package in the EU. So they have sought our
technical expertise to do those things.
I have not been involved in any of the conversations that
are related to the House's inquiry. Those are not matters that
would typically fall to the Chief Operating Officer of the
Department. My role within the Department is to run the day-to-
day operations. And as you mentioned earlier, it is a large
organization. It is approaching $40 billion in budget and well
over 100,000 federal employees and contractors. So that, along
with nine kids, keeps me pretty busy.
Senator Manchin. Thank you, sir.
Also, I think you have heard us talk about the Appalachian
Storage Hub before.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir.
Senator Manchin. Secretary Perry and I have a good
relationship and a long relationship being former governors,
but Rick and I talked and he said, ``Joe, I've seen the model
of a Class 5 hurricane coming up the Houston Ship Channel, what
it'll do to cripple us energy-wise.'' Do you have the same
feeling of that, the commitment toward doing something for a
backup energy supply and also reinvigorating the manufacturing
base that we could have in the north or mid-Atlantic states?
Mr. Brouillette. Sure. I do, sir.
You know, having grown up in Louisiana and survived a few
hurricanes, if you will, I know what they look like and what
they feel like and it can be a very disturbing experience to
have to go through one. And it pains me, as I told you in your
office, privately, to have to suggest, perhaps against the
interest of Louisiana, that we should have an alternative. We
should have some redundancy in our storage capacity and
systems.
And in that regard, I think, Appalachia presents the best
opportunity in America to do exactly that. Not only is the area
rich in natural resources, you know, wet gas, dry gas, you name
it, the labor talent there is incredible. It reminds me much of
the places that I grew up in Louisiana. People are, they're
hardworking people. They train themselves well and they show up
every day on time and that's very, very important for these
types of things because they are related to our national
security.
Senator Manchin. I know you touched briefly with the
Chairman here concerning our rare earth minerals and the lack
of our being able to sustain it within this country. And now
with the countries that do, that we rely on, basically, for
those rare earth minerals, they are not always in our best
interest and they could hold us in a hostage situation. It
would be detrimental to us.
There is an awful lot going on in that in research as you
all have been involved with, especially the last grant that we
did with WVU and NETL----
Mr. Brouillette. That's correct.
Senator Manchin. ----on coal refuse as far as our acid
drainage and things of this sort, we find that there is an
awful lot. Do you think that that can be increased to
commercial, to where we can get enough minerals or basically be
able to sustain the need we have in case of a critical
shortage?
Mr. Brouillette. I do and I think that's part of the
important work that's being done in Morgantown at NETL. It's to
address those types of opportunities within the coal industry,
but other industries as well. I think to the extent that we can
continue the R&D that's currently being done, we can make these
types of technologies, not only, you know, commercially viable,
but we can make them economically viable in large scale. And I
think that's what we need to focus on at the Department and
that's going to be my mission as Secretary, should I be
confirmed by the U.S. Senate.
I think there's a lot of opportunity for coal. There's a
lot of opportunity for other parts of the country as well.
Senator Manchin. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman, for
holding this hearing. I had an opportunity to meet with the
nominee last week. I am very impressed with his knowledge, his
experience and his commitment to advancing American energy and
technology. I think he would make a superb Secretary of Energy.
The Department of Energy has done a great job, I believe,
investing in research to advance domestic energy. What starts
here in the U.S. can change the world. We are developing energy
technologies here at home and then pushing to get these
technologies to the deployment stage. Countries around the
world are doing the same.
So, if confirmed, how will you coordinate research efforts
to ensure the Department's efforts are not duplicative or
redundant doing what other people are doing?
Mr. Brouillette. That's always a challenge, Senator, to be
honest. These departments are very, very big. But I will tell
you that some of the unique opportunities that we have are, I
think, unique to the Department of Energy. So you're probably
familiar with the Wyoming Test Center. We do a lot of work out
that way.
I think Wyoming, in particular, presents a unique
opportunity for us to test technologies like carbon capture.
And I'm very excited about the work that I see within Wyoming,
what I see in DOE writ large.
Senator Barrasso. Well, I appreciate that. There is great
work being done through the University of Wyoming----
Mr. Brouillette. Yes.
Senator Barrasso. ----our School of Energy Resources, the
Integrated Test Center--I am fully onboard. And, you know, when
we look at what is happening worldwide, we need to get these
technologies developed, then deployed. So I look at China and
India. They are going to continue to grow their economies. They
are going to continue to release carbon dioxide as they build
out industrial and transportation sectors.
In spite of what some may believe, the United States cannot
tackle climate change alone. We need to work with other
countries to find real solutions to manage carbon dioxide
without killing our economy and killing jobs.
Once we find that commercial carbon capture solution, how
can we deploy the technology to these other countries that do
have growing economies like China and India who seem to be the
ones that continue to be the greatest emitters worldwide?
Mr. Brouillette. Sure. So one of the things we've done,
Senator, at the U.S. Department of Energy is create a Chief
Commercialization Officer for exactly that purpose. Our
national labs produce an enormous amount of technology and
research and products, if you will. It's our job, I think, as
the purveyors and the, you know, the owners, if you will, of
that taxpayer-funded technology to ensure that it gets
commercialized, that we take it off the shelf and we put it
into the market, we allow the private sector to run with it, to
commercialize it and to have it spread around the world
because, as you know, sir, and as we talked about, the use of
some of these fossil fuels will continue well into the 2040,
2050 timeframe.
Our Energy Information Administration, the EIA, as it's
known within the Department of Energy, projects that fossil
fuels are going to power a large portion of the world's energy
needs for the next 40 to 50 years. And if that's the case, then
I think we have an obligation, if we care about the climate, if
we care about minimizing the carbon impact of the use of these
fossil fuels, we have to get these technologies off of the
shelf and into the market.
Senator Barrasso. And then with nuclear energy being a
source of energy with no carbon footprint, you know, President
Trump has established a Nuclear Fuel Working Group to make
recommendations to enable American uranium production to
continue. I encourage the working group to swiftly make its
recommendations to the President to provide immediate relief
for American uranium producers. Do you support actions to
preserve and strengthen our own American uranium production?
Mr. Brouillette. I do. I do.
The working group is very close to its final product. I'm
happy to report to you that it's in the final stages of the
interagency working, the interagency process within the
Executive Branch. It will look at the entirety of the fuel
cycle for nuclear power from enrichment, the front end of the
cycle all the way to the back end of the cycle. So we're proud
of that work, and we hope to share it with you very, very
shortly.
Senator Barrasso. Great.
Then the Department of Energy does have an Office of
Cybersecurity, Energy Security, and Emergency Response. It
addresses energy-related emergencies, disruptions. An energy
disruption, as we all know, could devastate rural communities
throughout the country and urban areas, but specifically for
rural communities. If confirmed, how will you work to ensure
that our rural communities are prepared for cyberattacks and
have the resiliency and the robustness that is necessary to
protect ourselves?
Mr. Brouillette. So, sir, we have what's called, inside of
the Department, the Electricity Subsector Coordinating Council.
It's made up of CEOs of, primarily, larger utilities. We meet
from time to time to talk about issues like cybersecurity. Part
of that conversation are tools that are available to almost all
utilities. We have a tool--we have a lot of acronyms in the
government as you all know, sir--we call it CRISP. It is for
reporting cyber incidents, you know, in these types of--in
utilities.
We have heard from smaller, rural municipal utilities, in
particular, that the product is too expensive. So we're making
it cheaper. And that's one of the ways that, I think, if we can
make this product, the reporting, you know, the product called
CRISP, if we can make that available to these smaller
utilities, municipals in particular, then we can share with
them, not only the data that we have at DOE, but in certain
cases, we can begin to share the intelligence that we see from
places that are nation-state actors who want to violate our
electricity grid.
And we've done a pretty good job over the last two years of
educating smaller utilities and letting them know of the risks
that they face, not only for their utility, but to the extent
that they're connected with larger utilities, it creates a
door. So they've been very, very sensitive and very responsive
to our efforts and we hope to continue them in the course of
the next two to three years.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Thank you,
Madam Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Wyden.
Senator Wyden. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Mr. Brouillette, it has been reported that while you were
Deputy Secretary of Energy, the Secretary communicated with
high-level Ukrainian officials and at the President's
direction, with Rudy Giuliani, his personal attorney, about
Ukraine-related matters. The press reports also indicate that
Secretary Perry pushed the Ukrainian government to make changes
to the Board of Naftogaz, a Ukrainian, state-owned, natural gas
company.
And the reason I am asking the question is these efforts
echo changes to the Board that were sought by two of Mr.
Giuliani's now indicted associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman.
So just a couple of questions here. Were you aware of any
contacts between Secretary Perry or any other senior DOE
officials and representatives of Naftogaz?
Mr. Brouillette. I am aware that the Secretary met on
occasion with individuals who were asking for assistance with
the restructuring, if you will, or reorganization, of the
state-owned enterprise. Naftogaz is a vertically integrated
company. In order for them to interconnect with the EU, we had
conversations about their structure.
Senator Wyden. When you say ``we'', were you involved in
conversations with Naftogaz?
Mr. Brouillette. No, sir, I was not. No, sir, no, I was
not. I was not. The ``we'' is the collective we at the
Department of Energy.
Senator Wyden. I gotcha.
Mr. Brouillette. It's not me and the Secretary.
But no, I am not aware of any conversation that he had with
either Mr. Giuliani or others within the Ukraine government
about the Board or the Advisory Board that's associated with
Naftogaz.
Senator Wyden. So I am still a little bit unclear. Are you
aware of the nature of any communications with Naftogaz because
initially you said, you knew there were communications? So,
being the Deputy, I would be inclined to say somebody like
yourself, who is knowledgeable, I have watched you over the
years, would know a little bit about the nature of the
conversations.
Mr. Brouillette. Sure.
Senator Wyden. Tell me a little more about that.
Mr. Brouillette. No, I am not aware of the conversations
that Secretary Perry had or did not have with Naftogaz
directly. I'm just, I wasn't party to that. I didn't have any
knowledge of that.
I am aware that the, you know, within the Department there
are technical experts that from time to time will interact with
colleagues about these types of matters, but I'm not aware of
any conversations between the Secretary and anyone at Naftogaz.
Senator Wyden. And are you aware of any conversations Mr.
Giuliani has had with the Department on this?
Mr. Brouillette. I am not.
Senator Wyden. And you have not had any contact?
Mr. Brouillette. I have not.
Senator Wyden. Okay.
The only other thing I wanted to touch on is yesterday in
the office, and I appreciated the visit, you made it clear to
me that because of Bonneville Power and their important role in
making sure there was affordable energy in North America, you
would keep the idea of privatizing Bonneville Power off the
table. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate it.
If you want to add anything to what you told me yesterday
in the office, I appreciated the fact that you responded
directly to the question. Obviously, privatizing Bonneville
Power would hit the Pacific Northwest like a wrecking ball and
you answered the question forthrightly and I appreciate it.
I also want to hold the record open with respect to the
questions I have asked dealing with Secretary Perry and other
officials at the Department. I know our people indicated that
we were going to ask some of those questions, but certainly I
want to give you the opportunity, if there is additional
supplemental material on that, as I say, I was particularly
concerned because these press reports did come up at a time
when these two indicted associates of Mr. Giuliani were
apparently seeking changes to the Board. There seem to be some
conversations that took place between the Department and
Naftogaz. I will hold the record open if you would like to give
me additional information.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir----
Senator Wyden. Okay.
Madam Secretary, Madam Chair, thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Wyden.
Senator Hoeven.
Senator Hoeven. Secretary Brouillette, great to see you
here and your family is unbelievable, so----
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, sir.
Senator Hoeven. ----just great, and it is really fun to
meet them.
Thanks for coming by the office. You have a great track
record over there at DOE. We appreciate your service and the
service of your family very much.
In North Dakota we produce 1.5 million barrels of oil a
day, and that is second only to one of your states, Texas. We
also produce more than three million cubic feet of gas a day.
We don't even drill for gas. It just comes up with the oil.
Mr. Brouillette. Amazing.
Senator Hoeven. It is essentially free in North Dakota,
because we have to get it to markets. Where I am going with
this is, we need infrastructure. I mean, when I started as
governor up there in 2000, we produced less than 100,000
barrels a day. Now, with hydraulic fracturing, like I said, 1.5
million a day, going up.
And we have--we need pipelines. We need LNG facilities. How
do we get more infrastructure to get this to markets? I mean,
the Pacific Northwest, the Orient, there is just a lot of
places that really want this energy, but we need to get it
there. We need infrastructure. How can you help us?
Mr. Brouillette. Well, I think one of the ways we can help
is to work with our regulators, both at the state and federal
level, to give them some assistance as to the most efficient
ways to place infrastructure.
We all support the development of additional pipeline
capacity in the United States. We have worked very aggressively
with our partners in places like the Department of Energy--
Department of the Interior, at the Department of
Transportation, to let them know what are the most critical
needs? Where are the most critical concerns that we have as the
Department of Energy for the placement of infrastructure?
And what do I mean by that is, you know, as we talk about
things like cybersecurity, for instance, if you think about
what the world was, you know, say 10 years ago, 15 years ago,
20 years ago, where, you know, a pipeline, a natural gas
pipeline may have served, you know two, perhaps three, electric
generation facilities. Today it might serve six or seven,
perhaps eight.
And if we can expand that, it creates quite a risk in the
electric generation world, if we can expand that and have a,
you know, a number of pipelines serving those seven or eight
electric generation facilities, we not only allow in market,
you know, the gas to get to market, we reduce our risk, we
reduce our cybersecurity risk, in particular, with that type of
development.
So sharing that insight, sharing the work of our national
laboratories, with the regulators, will perhaps ease some of
the permitting, you know, that has to happen as a result of
these developments. So that's our contribution to this
particular problem. We want to continue that.
Senator Hoeven. In the coal world, you know, we are all
working to find ways to capture carbon and sequester it.
Mr. Brouillette. Right.
Senator Hoeven. And in our part of the world, as well as
Texas, Louisiana and other places, that is both for tertiary
oil recovery as well as just geologic storage. It is
technically feasible, we have to make it commercially viable.
So we need your help with CarbonSAFE. We have our Project
Tundra, Allam Cycle----
Mr. Brouillette. Sure.
Senator Hoeven. First question. Do you want to come up and
see what we're doing up there?
Mr. Brouillette. I would love it.
Senator Hoeven. Yes, because we would appreciate you seeing
it. It is amazing stuff. Great partnership--federal, state and
the private sector--leading technology. University of North
Dakota, EERC, PCOR--projects, I believe, that you support.
Correct?
Mr. Brouillette. Sure.
Senator Hoeven. So we need both to keep CarbonSAFE moving.
You are committed to doing that?
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, we are.
Senator Hoeven. And we need to work with the tax credits,
the 45Q and others. I spoke with IRS Commissioner Rettig
yesterday. I think they are committed to keeping this moving.
We have to have regulatory certainty. You are committed to
helping with those things as well?
Mr. Brouillette. That's correct.
Secretary Perry just sent a letter to the IRS, just
recently as a matter of fact. We are urging them to complete
their work on finalizing this 45Q.
Senator Hoeven. Right, because there is a scientific aspect
to this. You guys, right?
Mr. Brouillette. That's right. And they have sought our
help as well and we have provided it. I harken back to the
words of folks like Dr. Fatih Birol at the International Energy
Agency in Paris. He called this a game changer. He called 45Q a
game changer.
Senator Hoeven. It is.
Mr. Brouillette. And we feel strongly that it is as well.
So we're going to continue to work with the IRS to finalize
this rule. We're also going to work within the Department to
advance the technology so that it becomes more efficient and
cheaper. That's what we really need to do.
Senator Hoeven. That is right on. It is a game changer. We
make this work, we are going to be able to capture
CO2 on things like coal-fired electric and others.
That is not just good, that is just something that is going to
happen in the United States, that is going to happen beyond our
borders.
Mr. Brouillette. Around the world.
Senator Hoeven. It is a big deal.
Mr. Brouillette. Around the world.
Senator Hoeven. And of course, you are right there, point
on it.
The last question I had for you is regarding our national
nuclear labs and making sure that we continue to advance that
work on the new plutonium pits and the other things that our
military needs to upgrade our nuclear capabilities whether it
is the LRSO, replacing the ALCMs, whether it is the ICBM
Minuteman update, all those kinds of things. Do I have your
commitment to doing that?
Mr. Brouillette. We are absolutely committed to that. The
Nuclear Posture Review requires that we make 80 pits per year,
30 pits per year by 2026. The NNSA, which is a part of the DOE,
is very much committed to that. We're working closely with
Senator Heinrich and others about how to do that and where to
do that. We have an initial plan put together, but we are
firmly committed to producing what the Defense Department needs
with regard to these pits.
Senator Hoeven. Alright, I am on Defense Approps, so we
have to sync up what we are doing on Defense Approps with what
you are doing at the nuclear labs so it all comes together on
schedule.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir.
Senator Hoeven. Again, thank you. We really appreciate your
willingness to serve.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, Senator.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hoeven.
Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Madam Chair, and welcome, Mr.
Brouillette. I appreciate you sitting down with me yesterday.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you.
Senator Heinrich. And we have had a chance to get to know
each other over the years a little bit. I know you have been
out to Sandia and Los Alamos in your current capacity. I just
wanted to start by extending an invitation as well to the Waste
Isolation Pilot Plant.
Mr. Brouillette. Accepted.
Senator Heinrich. It is one of a kind, and I think it is
very helpful to actually get down inside that facility to
understand the role that it plays, obviously. So I appreciate
you being willing to do that.
I want to follow up with a similar question to Senator
Hoeven's but on the transmission side of infrastructure. We
have got to do a better job in this country. Whole books have
been written about how hard it is to develop interstate
transmission right now. And if we are going to marry up some of
the best, cheap, clean, renewable generation in the country
with where the demand is, we have to be able to build
transmission. We have, literally, multiple billions of dollars
worth of wind that would be developed tomorrow in New Mexico if
we had a way to get it to market.
What is the Department's role in helping to facilitate
transmission and its role, not just in clean generation, but
also in resiliency and other issues that you have brought up
today?
Mr. Brouillette. So, one of the, I mentioned in my opening
testimony, or opening statement, I should say, we've developed
a North American Resiliency Model. As part of that effort,
we've also identified critical infrastructure throughout the
United States. And a large portion of that is transmission
infrastructure.
What we're trying to identify is what needs to be served in
the event of a catastrophic event, what needs to be served in
our view, and it would obviously be reviewed by the Congress
and others, first, second, third, fourth and fifth. I mean,
what is it that we need to do for public safety? What is it
that we need to do to turn the lights on quickly so that people
can begin whatever they need to do, if it's, you know, recovery
from a catastrophic event?
We also want to maintain, you know, some level of
resiliency for all of our military installations as well. So
that's part of the calculation that we're doing.
That effort is beginning to identify critical loads all
throughout the country of huge transmission needs that we have.
So we would support, I know that you're interested in this, and
I think you mentioned a couple weeks ago, you may introduce a
bill on this to incentivize this type of, you know,
construction and development. We would support those types of
efforts, because this is critical to our defense network as
well. It is, it's also important for the reasons, I think, you
were alluding to earlier.
I was just down in Chile just a few months ago and I met
with the President there, had a very good conversation and she
was very, very proud at the time of both their, you know, solar
energy and their wind energy. The challenge she has is that she
can't move it from the north to south.
Senator Heinrich. Delivery, right.
Mr. Brouillette. So, you know, we have some similar
challenges here in the United States as well. Tremendous solar
capabilities in the southwest in your part of the world, less
so in other parts, but moving that electricity from your part
of the world to the northeast is a bit of a challenge at times.
So we have to fix those types of issues if we're going to see
the continued acceptance and the continued development of
renewable technologies.
Senator Heinrich. To avoid the worst impacts of climate
change, it is pretty clear that in addition to eliminating our
current emissions we are actually going to have to pull some
carbon back out of the air. If you are confirmed, is increasing
DOE's research efforts in the area of direct air capture
something that you are willing to focus on and commit to?
Mr. Brouillette. Absolutely.
Senator Heinrich. Great.
Mr. Brouillette. Absolutely.
Senator Heinrich. I think that is going to be really
important.
One of my frustrations with DOE has simply been that DOE's
home appliance and light bulb standards, which have been
incredibly productive economically saving my constituents an
estimated $400 a year, have not gotten, always, the attention
that they are due. I am concerned that the Department has now
missed legal deadlines on issuing, I think it is 19 new
standards overall and some are more than three years late. Are
you willing to commit to assuring that DOE is finally meeting
whatever its legal obligations are to set and update energy
efficiency standards?
Mr. Brouillette. Sure, we will do that.
Senator Heinrich. Great.
Lastly, the Chair mentioned this, but is there anything you
want to share about ARPA-E, because there has been this
mismatch between the budget proposals and a broad, bipartisan
support of that program which we all recognize has been
incredibly helpful to our nation.
Mr. Brouillette. Yeah, happy to address that, Senator.
As you and I have discussed in the past, in some respects
it's both a blessing and a curse, I should say, to have worked
on this side of the branches of government, if you will, having
been a staffer in Congress, I'm fully aware of the budget
processes and how they work. Now that I find myself in the
Executive Branch, the commitments I can give to you are that I
will fight for these programs within our Department because I
think they're important. But it's also important to understand
that I don't have the final say in what comes over to the
United States Senate or the Congress, but I give you my
commitment that I will fight for these programs.
Senator Heinrich. That is what we would ask. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Cassidy.
Senator Cassidy. A well put answer at the end, very
tactful, but also very explicit. So thank you.
Innovation, which we all are interested in. There was a
quote yesterday from the Federal Reserve Chair. He said, ``The
energy independence of the U.S. is something that people have
talked about for 50 years, never thought it would happen. It
has. It's a great thing.''
Mr. Brouillette. It's a great thing.
Senator Cassidy. It is a great thing. So a lot of what you
have been discussing today has been innovation. I would like to
go to 45Qs as did Senator Hoeven, but Senator Hoeven kind of
focused on the coal aspect of it.
Mr. Brouillette. Yeah.
Senator Cassidy. But as we read, both the U.S. and
worldwide and, by the way, that is important, but in the U.S.
and worldwide natural gas is increasingly being used.
Mr. Brouillette. That's correct.
Senator Cassidy. You are familiar with the geology of
Louisiana, I happen to think that it's ideal for 45Qs, the
storage of carbon dioxide, maybe in an old oil or gas well in
creating, if you will, one more incentive for folks to set up
industry and create jobs in my state, but perhaps in others.
So we have a Committee recommendation to pursue this, but
how could you ramp up the gas research and development aspect
post enactment?
Mr. Brouillette. I'd like to take a closer look at how we
might apply to the natural gas industry. And thank you for
taking time to meet with me in your office. You know, I must
say, I'd heard bits and pieces about the natural gas industry's
interest in this, but you've made it perfectly clear what the
impact is, what the revenue streams could be and what the
future could look like if we did apply to natural gas.
I must tell you that I'm not fully understanding all of the
aspects of this, but I understand clearly where you want to go
and I would support that. I think it's very important that we,
you know, we pursue these types of technologies, not just for
coal which we have developed a lot of, you know, we've done a
lot of good work, I should say, within the Department of Energy
on carbon capture for coal. But I'd like to study it more and
I'd like to engage not only your office and you, personally,
but also our national laboratories. I'd like to talk to, for
instance, Dr. Brian Anderson is here from NETL. I'd like to
talk to him. I'd like to talk to Steve Ashby out at PNNL and
other laboratories as well to see how we might do this
correctly and how we might incentivize this to come to the
market.
Senator Cassidy. Okay.
So that might be, kind of, you may have answered this next
question, but what do you see as the barriers to the
commercialization of carbon capture technology for natural gas?
Is that something, kind of, we have to explore it further to
see what the barriers are?
Mr. Brouillette. Well, I think one of the barriers, clearly
now, is we're waiting on an IRS rule on 45Q. I think if we can
establish some certainty around those particular rules, you'll
see private capital coming into the game much, much quicker.
And I think that's important for us to do. We can do a lot at
the DOE. We can, you know, this Committee and the
Appropriations Committee, in general, has been very, very
supportive of our work and has funded it and supported it very
strongly, but I think at this point we have to have certainty
with the tax law so that we can get private capital to come
into this.
Senator Cassidy. Next, again related, the International
Energy Agency has estimated an increasing use of energy about
one percent per year, and with that they imagine or project
that there will be increased greenhouse gas emissions related
to that. In part, that must be related to expanding populations
in Asia and Africa and the fact that disproportionately they
are using coal for their electrical needs.
Mr. Brouillette. Correct.
Senator Cassidy. Now it occurs to me that if the EU and
U.S. is decreasing greenhouse gas emissions by converting from
coal to natural gas, why should we not build in on the front
end a natural gas capability? It does not mean you wouldn't
want to use sunshine and wind where it is feasible, but for
industrial processes giving you that baseload?
I guess I am asking, and China, by the way, is building
these coal-fired plants, so it is both a market loss as well as
an overall increase in greenhouse gas emissions. What could we
do as a nation or at your Department to promote the use of
natural, liquified natural gas instead of the coal-fired plants
that are being built? So it is our technology, it is our jobs
and it is cleaner burning. What could we do to encourage that
for Africa as they increase their needs, for example?
Mr. Brouillette. Well, I think, sure, you know, we talked
about earlier having a chief commercialization officer and
taking these technologies out of the Department of Energy's
laboratories and sharing them more broadly, not only here in
the United States, but all across the world. The Secretary and
I have done a fair amount of work----
Senator Cassidy. Now, this now seems more than just the
transfer, if you will, of research, but it also seems to be a
policy which says, wait a second, we have an energy industry
which is being out hustled by China with consequences not just
for jobs but also for the fact that they are using coal instead
of gas and so therefore, releasing more. Obviously these have
30-year lifespans at least.
Mr. Brouillette. Correct.
Senator Cassidy. So it seems that we go more beyond just
the, kind of, transferability of research into almost an
industrial policy.
Mr. Brouillette. It's almost an industrial policy, but
unfortunately that's not something I can do I guess at the
Department of Energy. It's really something that we ought to
work together with the U.S. Congress to adopt as a national
policy, a national industrial policy. If that's what the
Congress wants to do, we would be very supportive of that.
I agree with you. It makes perfect sense. If we're going to
sell natural gas, if we're going to, you know, promote U.S. LNG
around the world as a potential, you know, supplement to
renewable energy, or in some cases replacing other perhaps more
emissions emitting types of energy, then we ought to attach it
to, you know, carbon capture type technology that allows us to
have the best of both worlds, if you will--clean natural gas as
well as a renewable technology to, you know, to offset the
emissions or whatever is left in the natural gas burning.
Senator Cassidy. Well, thank you very much. I yield.
The Chairman. Senator King.
Senator King. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to note a
historic moment in this hearing when Senator Barrasso said,
``We can't tackle climate change alone.'' I could not agree
with him more. I hope that he will urge the President to rejoin
the Paris climate accord which is the only, ongoing,
international effort to deal with this issue. A molecule of
greenhouse gas which comes from the United States causes as
much climate problem as one that comes from China or India or
anywhere else in the world.
So I am going to speak to Senator Barrasso afterwards. I am
delighted he has taken an interest in this and hope we can get
back into our area of global leadership and join the other 197
signatories to the Paris accord.
Mr. Brouillette, everybody is trying to claim you today. As
you know, if your ancestors had gone slightly west instead of
south in 1756, you would be a Mainer.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Brouillette. I would be. I would be.
Senator King. Substantial population of Acadians in
Northern Maine and we love them and so, I know how to pronounce
your name because there are many people of similar extraction
in the northern part of our state.
First, I don't think there is much more important than--of
what you are doing, what your Department does--than research.
We talked a lot about energy independence and the fracking
revolution which, as you know, was largely supported by
research funds from the Department of Energy.
Mr. Brouillette. That's correct.
Senator King. I just want to hear you reassure me that your
commitment will be to a strong and vigorous and forward-looking
research whether it is in the national labs or throughout the
Department, ARPA-E, these are very important in the national
interest in my view.
Mr. Brouillette. You have my commitment on that, Senator.
One of the things that I've noticed, and one of the things
I would like to work with this Committee on as well as the
other committees in Congress, is to move some of the research
that we're currently doing, perhaps, more to the basic side of
the equation, more basic science. We have a tremendous
organization in the Office of Science within our Department,
and I'd like to see the next generation, if you will, of some
of the renewable technologies that we're beginning as Americans
to take for granted.
I mean, we talked about this in your office and thank you,
sir, for taking the time to meet with me.
You know, we're looking for the next generation of solar
panels. We're looking for the next generation of wind
technology----
Senator King. And storage, and transmission.
Mr. Brouillette. ----and storage. And we want to think
about these things in perhaps a slightly different way. As we
talked about in your office with regard to battery storage, for
instance, we've long thought about battery storage as simply
filling a gap. You know, if the sun doesn't shine, cover the
four hours while the clouds are out, if the wind stops blowing,
cover the two hours that the wind is not blowing. We ought to
be thinking about battery storage, perhaps, in a more broad
context. And what I mean by that is, you know, perhaps
batteries are important for resilience, not only as a backup
for, you know, renewable energy but a backup for fossil fuels
as well.
Senator King. I totally agree. It is a national security
issue and it's also a completely changed world in terms of the
use of renewables.
I am going to Oak Ridge in two weeks, as a matter of fact,
with Senator Alexander. Oak Ridge has a relationship with the
University of Maine that is very beneficial to both sides, and
I urge you to support that kind of hub and spoke relationship.
The national labs are such a treasure.
Mr. Brouillette. Absolutely, it's a very exciting project
that we have with the University of Maine on additive
manufacturing. We're very excited about that program, and I
think you will see that expand.
Senator King. Thank you. I am looking forward to it.
A couple of substantive questions. A lot of talk about LNG
exports which have a lot of positive benefits in terms of the
American economy and also our neighbors and friends having a
cleaner source of energy. My concern is if energy, if LNG
exports, rise to some critical level, and I don't know what
that level is, it will start to have a negative effect or, I
guess, a positive effect, make prices higher domestically.
Mr. Brouillette. It depends on what part of the business
you're in, I suppose.
Senator King. That is exactly right. And I am in the
consuming business in New England and the price, the low price,
of natural gas here is one of our competitive advantages
worldwide. I would hate to see us lose that by exporting to the
point where it drives our domestic prices up. This happened in
Australia. This is not an abstract concern. Is this something
that you have some interest and concern about?
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, we monitor very closely, as a matter
of fact. I'm aware that there are, I think, four or perhaps
five studies that have been done. The latest one was done by
NERA, N-E-R-A, and I've forgotten what the acronym stands for
off the top of my head but, you know, that study shows that,
you know the increased production in the United States has not
yet had a dramatic impact on price. And I think that's borne
out by the market prices----
Senator King. And the new production of LNG, you are
saying?
Mr. Brouillette. The new production as well as the expanded
export capacities that have developed----
Senator King. Right.
Mr. Brouillette. ----over the course of the last four to
five years.
Senator King. I would agree with that study, but I just
want to keep an eye on it.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Senator King. Because once you build $100 billion worth of
export capacity and you start exporting it and then you say, uh
oh, we have doubled our domestic prices, it is too late. I just
think this is something that should be carefully weighed
because of the effects on the rest of the U.S. economy.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir, understood, and we do monitor
very closely. And I will work closely with EIA and others who
track these types of things for us in the Department.
Senator King. I am out of time, but I am going to give you
a question for the record. My concern is about the methane
associated with the extraction of natural gas. Methane is 84
times as potent as natural gas in terms of a greenhouse gas.
Twenty-five percent of the greenhouse gases now are methane. I
am worried that we are not adequately controlling that, that it
is an unintended negative byproduct. It is something that, I
think, we need to pay some attention to in terms of research
and, frankly, regulatory control.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Senator King. Thank you. I will submit a detailed question.
I look forward to your response.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir. Yes, sir, I'll respond to you.
Senator King. Thank you.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir.
Senator King. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator King.
Senator Daines.
Senator Daines. Chair Murkowski, thank you and Ranking
Member Manchin as well. Mr. Brouillette, congratulations on
your nomination.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, sir.
Senator Daines. You will be the next Secretary of Energy.
That is a big deal.
I first want to invite you out to Montana. As we chatted
when you came by the office, and I really enjoyed our
discussion, I would like to invite you to come out to Montana,
see firsthand the issues that we have out in Big Sky Country
and the opportunities----
Mr. Brouillette. Accepted.
Senator Daines. Okay, that was easy.
[Laughter.]
We have vast natural resources in Montana. It is one of the
few states that truly does offer an all-of-the-above energy
portfolio. Coal, more recoverable coal than any state in the
United States. Hydro, we are a headwater state. The Missouri
River is formed in Montana, a lot of water. Oil, gas, wind,
solar, geothermal, they power our state. In fact, they power
our neighboring states as well.
We are also home to a booming tech sector specializing in
areas like quantum computing, optics, UAVs and we also have
one-third of our nation's intercontinental ballistic missiles
are sourced in Montana. All of this will be under your purview,
if confirmed, and I hope you will be able to make it out to
Montana so you can see firsthand these great opportunities for
growth and talk more about these issues on the ground.
We truly are a shining example of a balanced energy
portfolio, and I think the American people, I know I can speak
on behalf of Montanans, they want to see a balanced view as it
relates to our energy portfolio.
Traditional fuels like coal as well as renewables like
hydropower make up the largest portion of our current energy
production in Montana. Both are reliable. Both provide
affordable baseload power that keeps the lights on and the heat
on in the wintertime. And we do have winter in Montana.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, you do.
Senator Daines. We also have a growing wind and solar
generation and strong potential for geothermal. However,
Montana's balanced energy portfolio is coming under attack with
the premature forced closures of Units 1 and 2 of the Colstrip
Power Plant at the end of this year and the threat of dam
breaches across the northwest. Both of these are due, in part,
to extreme radical groups that litigate. Closing Colstrip is
not just about the loss of over 600 megawatts of baseload
power. It is also about the jobs, the livelihoods, the tax base
of the Colstrip community which relies on the power plant and
the coal mine that feeds it.
I believe that there is a role for you and the Department
of Energy to play in order to maintain baseload supply in
Montana. One possibility is through investment and advancement
of carbon capture technology like we have laid out in the
bipartisan EFFECT Act.
Mr. Brouillette, if confirmed, will you commit to working
with me and with this Committee to protecting and growing
baseload power like Colstrip and maintaining a secure and
balanced energy portfolio?
Mr. Brouillette. Sir, I will tell you it's been the policy
of this Administration and perhaps even the last Administration
to pursue an all-of-the-above energy strategy. The reasons for
doing that are numerous, but the reasons that I think are
perhaps most important for us today is that, in our view,
diversity of energy supply means energy security, not only for
our nation, but our allies across the world. So, it's very,
very important that we continue to produce energy from all
sources that we have here in the United States.
The other reason I think it's important, however, is that,
you know, until we are able to develop battery storage that is,
has more capacity, is longer lasting, is perhaps more flexible
in some respects, it is important that baseload power exists
because without it, if we are, I think, objective and candid,
the adoption of renewables or the introduction of renewables
into our electric grid is just very, very difficult.
So, it's important for places like Colstrip, or
institutions or generation facilities like Colstrip, to remain
online until we have those answers, you know, down the road.
The other point I would make to you is that, you know, as
we look across, I mentioned earlier, the resilience model that
we're working on and the identification of critical
infrastructure throughout the United States, I can commit to
you that at the Department of Energy we're going to look at
these types of facilities to see if they fit that potential
model and see if there's, you know, anything that we should be
concerned, potentially, about the loss of that institution for
the military installations that you have identified in your
state.
Senator Daines. Mr. Brouillette, I appreciate this
balanced, commonsense view as we think about managing our
energy portfolio, of managing risk, going forward. I am one who
supports the advances in renewable energy, but there is a
reason we call wind intermittent energy. It is a fair
characterization because the wind does not blow all the time.
To solve the problem of storage here, we are going to have the
challenge as it relates to some of these renewables, and
technology eventually will solve these problems. But I want to
thank you for hearing my concerns today, and I look forward to
moving you forward here as our next Secretary of the Department
of Energy.
Thank you.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, sir.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Mr. Brouillette, congratulations on
your nomination. Welcome to your family. I want to thank you
again for taking the time to meet with me this week in my
office.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Cortez Masto. As you well know, the Nevada National
Security Site is integral to Nevada and DOE plays a big role
there. And so, I want to ask you a couple questions as it
relates to that site, particularly the first one obviously is
with respect to Yucca Mountain.
Do you support the storage of spent nuclear fuel or high-
level radioactive waste at Yucca Mountain?
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, Senator, for taking time
yesterday. I sincerely appreciated that. And thank you for your
kind words about my family as well.
You know, the policy question that's before us on Yucca
Mountain is really a policy question, I think, for Congress to
make a determination on. As we have discussed in the past and
as you well know, I'm obligated to follow the law and the law
of the land today is the Nuclear Waste Policy Act. I'm also
obligated to not spend money that hasn't been appropriated to
the U.S. Department of Energy to pursue those policy directives
that were given by the Congress.
So at the moment I can give you the assurance that in the
near-term, as Secretary, until the Congress makes a decision on
Yucca Mountain, nothing will happen at the Department of
Energy.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you for your response.
This Congress, Senator Rosen and I introduced the Nuclear
Waste Informed Consent Act and the bill would require the DOE
Secretary to obtain consent from the affected state, local
communities, including the governor of the local governments,
as well as our tribal communities before funds from the Nuclear
Waste Fund could be used for a nuclear waste repository. Would
you support the bill?
Mr. Brouillette. Senator, I haven't read the bill, but I
would be happy to do so and provide you a direct answer.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
And then, under your watch and that of the current
Secretary of Energy, Secretary Perry, DOE shipped a half of
metric ton of plutonium to the Nevada National Security Site
from the Savannah River site in South Carolina. Working through
Secretary Perry, I secured an agreement with DOE as codified in
an April 24, 2019, letter to begin removing the plutonium from
the site in 2021.
[The letter referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T9872.004
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T9872.005
Senator Cortez Masto. When we met this week, you assured me
that you were committed to honoring that agreement. Do you mind
reaffirming your commitment today?
Mr. Brouillette. I do not mind at all, Senator. I will give
you a firm commitment that we will honor that agreement.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
In July 2019, the State of Nevada and the Nevada
Congressional Delegation were notified that DOE had violated
the waste acceptance criteria in shipping mislabeled waste to
the site, the National Security Site. During our meeting early
this week, you said that the Office of Enterprise Assessments
was in the process of completing a report on the DOE's
radioactive waste packaging and shipping policies and
procedures.
What guarantees can you provide me and the people of Nevada
that DOE will not violate its contracts with the state in the
future or allow mislabeled or misclassified waste to be
transported from one facility to another?
Mr. Brouillette. Sure. Senator, as we talked about
immediately following that incident which was a self-reported
incident inside of the Department of Energy, I called you and I
called the Governor and I called the delegation to let you know
of the accident, let you know of the incident, I should say.
Following our visits there, following our conversations, the
Secretary directed me to do an enterprise-wide assessment of
all shipping of waste within the Department. We're about 30 to
45 days away from that final report, or at least the first
draft of a complete report. I will come to you. I will share
with you that draft. What we have found and what I can tell you
at this point in time is that we have found some very minor
deficiencies--public health, public safety in this incident and
in the minor deficiencies that we found has never been at risk.
Senator Cortez Masto. And is that report, once it is
finalized, can it be made public?
Mr. Brouillette. It will be made public.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
So, and I asked you this question, so between Yucca
Mountain, the years of mislabeled waste being sent to the test
site, the secret plutonium shipments, Nevadans have very little
reason to trust DOE at this point and the nuclear program is
overseen by DOE. So, if confirmed, what steps will you take to
improve communication and trust with the State of Nevada?
Mr. Brouillette. Senator, I appreciate your concerns and,
as you and I discussed, I happen to have family there so I'm
very, very sensitive to these issues as well. I can give you my
personal commitment that I will spend personal time on these
issues. I will be available to you, obviously, and to your
staff. I will work diligently and apply the skill sets, the
business skill sets, that I think I bring to the table, to look
at these types of processes within the Department of Energy and
ensure that they are robust, that they follow the proper
procedures and that they're all following the regulations that
we are all guided by within the Department itself.
Part of that is just, you know, mapping out things. Part of
that is changing the culture of some of these organizations.
And I will give you my personal commitment that I will make
every effort to do that.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator McSally.
Senator McSally. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Mr.
Brouillette, good to see you again.
Mr. Brouillette. Good to see you, Senator.
Senator McSally. I enjoyed visiting with you in my office a
few weeks ago.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, Senator.
Senator McSally. We talked about a number of things, but
one is how Arizona is really leading in a lot of new
technologies and a real all-of-the-above energy strategy which
many of us have talked about supporting. I appreciate the
Department's commitment to that.
We have the, you know, the hydropower generated by the
Hoover and Glen Canyon Dam. We have the Palo Verde, ultra-
efficient Palo Verde nuclear plant and we also have a growing
solar array because we have a lot of sunshine and wide-open
space. We are now number three in solar in Arizona with the
opportunity to grow, but as has been mentioned, we still need
breakthrough technologies in storage because the sun does not
shine at night.
Arizona research institutions and companies are working
really hard on research for this type of technology and so, I
just want to get your perspective on, you know, support from
the Department on working with universities and the private
sector, specifically, on the energy storage issue because we
are going to hit a point where we cannot really go much further
on some of these energy initiatives unless we can have
breakthroughs in the storage.
Mr. Brouillette. I think you're absolutely right, Senator,
and I look forward to working with you, should I be confirmed,
and the good folks in Arizona to figure out some of these tough
problems. You know, we just, we're very, very interested in
developing the talent that we need to hire over the course of
the next, call it five or ten years, and I think we're going to
see that coming through a number of different avenues.
But one of the things I'd like to mention to you, and I
know it's not in your state, so I apologize for that, perhaps
we can do one in Arizona as well, but recently Dr. Martin
Keller was here from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory
in Boulder, Colorado. He worked closely with the university
there, the University of Colorado Boulder, to start a brand-new
graduate program that's focused on renewable energy. And that's
a partnership with the lab itself. So I'd like to explore
opportunities like that as well so that we can build this
pipeline of talent coming into these areas, you know, we need
these scientists to join us to work on these tough problems.
With regard to the technology itself, I mean, we've, you
know, discussed some of that. There is another effort that I
would like to just mention to you, again, not in Arizona, so I
apologize for that, but it's all on the West Coast and what we
call it is the Grid Storage Launchpad, and it's being done with
one of our national laboratories in the northwest, Pacific
Northwest National Laboratory, we refer to it as PNNL. It's a
fantastic operation and a fantastic opportunity we have to
develop technologies that will be grid-scale storage, not just
the smaller batteries that you see in people's homes, but this
is large battery storage. We're very excited about that.
And again, I'd like to work with you on those kinds of
issues.
Senator McSally. No, great. Well, I would like to invite
you out to Arizona as well----
Mr. Brouillette. Accepted.
Senator McSally. ----to see if there is a place for
Arizona's universities to participate in some of these
initiatives.
There is also an issue with the supply chain, of course,
for energy storage. I talk all the time to people who come in
to advocate for green energy and I say to them, oh, you must be
pro-mining because these materials come out of the ground. I
sometimes get a blank stare as a response, but one of the five
Cs for Arizona is copper. We produce more than 65 percent of
the nation's copper, but raw materials like copper and nickel
and cobalt and other critical minerals are essential to
building things like the solar panels, the transmissions line,
the batteries and all that goes with that.
So we can't have green tech without having mining. And
American mining, where we are also having breakthroughs in
technology to have the cleanest, best stewards of our
environment in our mining, is certainly something that should
be supported if we are trying to advance green energy, in my
view. And recycling has to be a part of the mix as well, and
the R&D on recycling--I have teamed up with my fellow Arizona
Senator Sinema on legislation to jump-start some of this
recycling.
I just want to ask your perspective on the supply chain and
that being a part of DOE's approach, you know, working with
Interior and others to make sure we have a secure supply chain
for these technologies.
Mr. Brouillette. You're absolutely correct about that.
That's why I mentioned it earlier to Senator Manchin. It's one
of the opportunities we see for the mining industry, for the
coal industry, the copper industry, in your case. These are
critical materials or critical minerals, I should say, that
we've become, you know, not only dependent upon but, you know,
reliant upon for some of these newer technologies.
So if we have opportunities to look at coal ash, if we have
opportunities to look at some of the residual, you know,
materials that are left over from mining operations and we can
extract from that at least a portion of the minerals that we
need, we're going to make every opportunity to make every
effort to do exactly that. The lessening of our dependence upon
nation-states, again, who don't have our interests at heart, is
something that we have to do.
And I appreciate your military service. And again, I must
tell you and I say this on the record, I have never been so
nervous in all of my life to be standing in front of an A-10
pilot as a former Tank Commander. It, the stress, was very
high. I'll just leave it at that.
[Laughter.]
Senator McSally. It is all good. We love to provide that
close air support overhead.
I am out of time, but I do want to ask a question for the
record related to woody biomass. That is something else that
Arizona is leading on as we have mismanaged our forests for so
many years. Now, as we are finally going in to try and manage
it, it is an issue of wildfires, it is the management of water,
you know, watershed, but also the stuff that would normally
just be thrown away, using that as woody biomass to actually
generate energy, and we would love to have your commitment to
work with us on that.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, ma'am. I'll take that question for
the record----
Senator McSally. Okay.
Mr. Brouillette. ----and look forward to getting back to
you.
Senator McSally. Great, thank you.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator McSally.
Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Madam Chair.
To ensure the fitness of all nominees to these appointed
positions, I ask the following two initial questions of every
nominee who appears before any of the five committees on which
I sit.
First question. Since you became a legal adult have you
ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed any
verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual nature?
Mr. Brouillette. No, ma'am.
Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered
into a settlement relating to this kind of conduct?
Mr. Brouillette. No, ma'am.
Senator Hirono. Mr. Brouillette, this Committee asks each
nominee under oath if they will be, ``Available to appear
before this Committee and other Congressional committees to
represent departmental positions and to respond to issues of
concern to the Congress.'' However, Secretary Perry has refused
to comply with a subpoena for records about his dealings with
Ukraine pursuant to the House of Representatives impeachment
inquiry. Will you comply with subpoenas duly issued by
Congress?
Mr. Brouillette. Senator, as part of my oath here, I said I
would make myself available. If I were to receive a subpoena
from the U.S. Congress, I would, of course, consult with
Executive Branch counsel and, assuming that the subpoena was
properly served and the opportunity to be represented by
Executive Branch counsel, I would make myself available.
Senator Hirono. Thank you. One assumes that the subpoenas
were duly issued.
The United States has historically acknowledged a duty of
individuals, in fact, we have laws that everyone who serves in
the Federal Government has a responsibility to come forward to
report misdeeds, fraud, violations of law and we do
acknowledge, and I hope you do--you acknowledge the
contributions of whistleblowers to combat abuse, fraud and
violations of laws?
Mr. Brouillette. I do and I fully support the whistleblower
laws on the books, and I will give you a commitment. We have
begun a process of reviewing the contracts that we have with
contractors in the Department of Energy. I will ensure that the
whistleblower provisions that were most recently passed by
Congress are included in those contracts.
Senator Hirono. It sounds as though you would commit to
protecting whistleblowers within your Department should you be
confirmed, and you would protect them from retaliation as
required under the Whistleblower Protection Act?
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, ma'am, I would.
Senator Hirono. And you said that you are actually coming
up with some kind of guidance or something that your
Department, should you become confirmed, will adopt along these
lines?
Mr. Brouillette. We, yes, ma'am, we have instituted
guidance. We've instituted training within the Department of
Energy, but again, we've also reviewed all of our contracts
that we have with outside contractors to ensure that the
whistleblower protections that Congress intended when it passed
the statute are part of the contracts that we have with these
employers.
Senator Hirono. It must cause you some concern that there
are all these calls for the disclosure of the whistleblower who
brought to our attention what happened with regard to Ukraine.
There is a lot of discussion about the importance of
battery storage and Hawaii has a commitment to becoming 100
percent sustainable off of full electrical energy, so battery
storage is a big deal for us. Can we look for some
breakthroughs in energy storage, including grid storage from
the Department of Energy and all your partnerships, with the
various national labs?
Mr. Brouillette. I certainly hope so. I certainly hope so.
Senator Hirono. I am looking forward to that because we
have been talking about the importance of battery storage to
actually enable all of us to use all of the energy sources in
the land to basically lessen our reliance on fossil fuels and
that requires battery storage because it is intermittent power.
The Republic of the Marshall Islands is one of our very
close allies, and last month the Department of Energy signed a
memorandum, an MOU, with the Department of the Interior to
conduct a radiochemical analysis of groundwater surrounding the
Cactus Crater waste containment site on Runit Island in the
Republic of the Marshall Islands, commonly referred to as the
Runit Dome. The study will also assess the structural integrity
of the site which houses contaminated soil and radioactive
debris from U.S. nuclear weapon tests.
The people of the Marshall Islands have a right to know
about the scope and scale of potential problems with the Dome
and of impacts to human health and their environment that
result from a compromised dome, and the study is very
important. It will help us to address these concerns. If
confirmed as Secretary, will you commit that the Department
will complete this report and submit it to the Committee on
time?
Mr. Brouillette. I will commit that we will submit whatever
report we're required to on time. Senator, I'd like the
opportunity, however, to review the MOU. I'm not intimate with
it. I'm not familiar with it, but I would like that opportunity
and respond to you, perhaps in writing.
Senator Hirono. That would be fantastic, thank you.
The United States has not conducted nuclear weapons tests
since 1992, and that is really a big part of the Secretary's
responsibility. I know that it came as news to your
predecessor, or soon to be. Have you been briefed by the
directors of the Los Alamos and Sandia and Lawrence Livermore
National Laboratories on the significant advances that DOE has
made in the ability to maintain the U.S. nuclear arsenal in the
absence of testing?
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, I have been and we are in the process
as we speak as a matter of fact. The lab directors are engaged
in a process of assessing and providing their assessment to us
of the stockpile itself. So yes, they have been, I have been
briefed on it and I look forward to hearing their assessment,
perhaps within the next week and a half.
Senator Hirono. I think we have an aging stockpile, and I
think we need to be assured that--of the safety issues that are
involved and all of that. So thank you. I look forward to
working with you on all these and other matters.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
Senator Cantwell.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you,
Mr. Deputy Secretary Brouillette, for being here.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you.
Senator Cantwell. I was wondering if you remembered our
conversation when you came by.
Mr. Brouillette. I do.
Senator Cantwell. You said you had two priorities. Do you
remember what you told me they were?
Mr. Brouillette. Cybersecurity and Hanford.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
[Laughter.]
Isn't that amazing after all this time we both remember
that?
[Laughter.]
I want to go back to Hanford for a second.
Mr. Brouillette. Sure.
Senator Cantwell. Well, first let me laud my colleagues. My
colleagues, the Chair Murkowski and Ranking Member Manchin, are
still working on our energy bill but there are some very robust
provisions in there for DOE to play a major role in
cybersecurity. We just hope that you will help make that a
reality. We think we have an education shortage issue, and we
think that DOE could play a very big role here.
Obviously the Committee has many other issues, but I hope
that they are successful in dealing with that and DOE playing a
more major role just in talking to our colleagues. I think
practically every Committee here in Congress has had some
hearing on cybersecurity, but when they get right down to it,
they realize oh, wait, it is the grid and the grid and the
grid. So I really do believe that DOE has to play a more robust
role here in a leadership way. Hopefully you can do that.
Let me ask you about Hanford since we both remember that
that was a big priority. To meet the Department of Energy's,
and I know you mentioned that Mr. Vance is here--we very much
appreciate that and other DOE officials from Hanford--but we
need, obviously, to get the right budget. I think the FY20
funding level was well over a billion below the compliance
budget level.
Now I am sure you know very well the challenges that we
face as a state in that we have milestones and they have to be
met and that there is a legal obligation by the Department of
Energy to meet those milestones. I would just like to hear your
commitment again to working with all of us in meeting those
milestones.
Mr. Brouillette. I'm fully committed to that, Senator. And
we have engaged with the State Department of Ecology. We have
notified them of a risk situation there, high risk notice, if
you will, is what it's called. We are very much committed to
the program that we have currently established.
When you and I had this conversation, I think, almost two
years ago, I think, two and a half years ago now.
Senator Cantwell. Yes, we should clarify for people, that
was not last week that we had that conversation.
[Laughter.]
It was years ago----
Mr. Brouillette. It was some time ago.
Senator Cantwell. Yes.
Mr. Brouillette. But I do recall.
And you know, you pointed out to me at that time, I think,
rightfully so, that you were concerned, you know, that a new
administration comes in and the program changes. In other
words, we move the ship to the right or to the left and we do a
180 and things slow down and nothing gets done and cleanups
don't happen on time.
We have chosen not to do that and that's largely at your
advice and largely at your direction. We're going to continue
the mission at Hanford. We're going to continue the progress
that we've already made. As I mentioned earlier, I'm proud that
we have moved the last radioactive waste out of the K-Basins
and away from the Columbia River. That's not the end of the
story, however, for Hanford. We have much more to do.
I'm working closely with the contractors there and we're
bringing some, I hope, business discipline to some of their
operations so that we can speed up these cleanup efforts. But I
want to assure you, give you my commitment that I'm firmly
committed to this cleanup operation. It is the highest, one of
the highest priorities, I should say, it's the highest within
the EM program. It ranks right at the top of my priority list.
And should I be confirmed as Secretary, I will be there quite
often.
Senator Cantwell. Well, that should be good news for
everybody in the northwest and for the nation, because it
obviously is a very complex cleanup problem.
Mr. Brouillette. It is.
Senator Cantwell. I think people forget the elements of
what we did in meeting the nation's need and securing
production at that time, but we have to remember that the
cleanup responsibilities are just as dire and challenging. So
thank you for that commitment.
The HAMMER Federal Training Center provides really great,
exceptional work for our workforce who are committed to making
sure that there is a safe procedural process at Hanford. Are
you committed to continuing working with Hanford and the HAMMER
facility?
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, I am and Brian and I have had these
conversations on a regular basis about the importance of
HAMMER, the importance of processes and procedures on the
installation so that worker safety remains paramount.
Senator Cantwell. Okay.
And there are clearly a lot of priorities at Hanford,
including the startup and operation of the direct-feed, low-
activity waste facility, the DFLAW, as you know.
Mr. Brouillette. Correct.
Senator Cantwell. How would you--talk about that for a
second and how you think we keep moving forward.
Mr. Brouillette. Sure, sure. I think that's part of what
we, what I meant earlier when I said we're not going to change
the ship. What we did was focus our efforts on DFLAW so that we
can actually get that process started and going. And we're
right now, I think, on schedule for around 2023 to begin those
operations.
The balance of facilities are going to be online very, very
shortly which means the administrative buildings and the things
that have to support that institution, but we have focused and
made that our priority. We have to do that first and right. I
guess, in a very simple parlance, let's do something, let's get
something started and show that it works so that we can get to
high-level waste and do the other things that need to be done
in this very complex facility that we have.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank
you.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, Senator.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cantwell.
I knew you would be back to query the Deputy Secretary on
Hanford, so you did not disappoint there.
Mr. Deputy Secretary, I had an opportunity this morning to
be with Secretary Perry. This was at the IFNEC Global
Ministerial on small modular reactors and advanced nuclear and
it was really a good gathering of international leaders focused
in this area. The Secretary articulated a very strong vision
for the U.S. role in this space, and then I was able to follow
him with comments about what we are doing legislatively in
tandem with the Administration to move out on this
extraordinary potential.
As you know, we have advanced the Nuclear Energy Leadership
Act, NELA, but what we do within this legislation is we focus
on the reality that most of these reactors are going to require
the high-assay, low-enriched uranium, the HALEU, which we know
is not currently produced here. So we are looking to what it is
that we need to do in order to facilitate this opportunity for
us here in this country.
I know that this is something that the Department is
looking at, the NELA legislation, in addition to everything
else that we have already advanced and put into law, some of
the other pieces that we are working to help facilitate. But I
pointed out in my opening comments that it should not be
unusual or odd that a Secretary from a producing state like
Texas or someone like me from a producing state like Alaska
would be interested in the prospects and the future for
advanced nuclear and all that it provides.
Hopefully the Department is considering what a
comprehensive advanced nuclear fuel program would look like to
anticipate these near-term needs, but know that that is going
to continue to be a priority of mine. It certainly has of
Secretary Perry and hopefully you will continue that as well.
Mr. Brouillette. It will be, Senator.
You know, there's a number of different issues there in
your question. What we are going to advance at the Department
of Energy are things like the versatile test reactor at INL.
Dr. Mark Peters is here. That's a very high priority for us. I
mean, that particular reactor, that piece of equipment, if you
will, allows us to test materials, it allows us to utilize
processes that will test, you know, newer fuels, so that they
can qualify, perhaps get through regulatory processes a lot
sooner.
We're also going to conduct, you know, a pilot project for
HALEU. And we think that's very important for a number of
different reasons. We want to get to a place where we can
develop small, micro reactors, one to five megawatts. Small,
modular reactors, I think, have a very bright future and we're
very excited about their path forward throughout the regulatory
process.
But if we can make them even smaller, then it can serve
communities that you showed me in Alaska, I think, much more
easily and places like where I grew up in Louisiana where
there's only 200 people and, as I told you in Alaska, perhaps
more alligators than people on any given day. If we can get
small reactors into those types of areas in the country, we've
not only provided them with a clean, reliable source of power,
we've taken, I think, a good step forward in reducing carbon
emissions throughout the world.
So it's something that's very important to us at the
Department. It's something I do want to continue should I be
confirmed as Secretary, and I look forward to working with you.
And I must say, for the record as well, thank you for allowing
us to borrow Dr. Ben Reinke who is very intimate with your
piece of legislation.
The Chairman. Well, thank you. We are working those
together. I think it is a good package.
Senator Manchin, did you have any final questions?
Senator Manchin. Just briefly. I just want to make a
statement on how important--we have talked about this, Mr.
Brouillette--how important this job is. I mean, you look at
history and you look at energy, the role energy's played in
history and where we are as a people and in our nation how it
has played out with us being blessed with having a lot of
resources for our nation to defend ourselves, stability,
industrial might, to be the super power of the world. I go back
and I think about my grandparents talking about the first time
they received electricity and remembering that my grandmother
was so tickled to have a refrigerator and then they got a
washing machine. Those are the two things.
Mr. Brouillette. Wow.
Senator Manchin. I think today, we were just talking to the
staff, thinking about, we probably have a billion, out of 7.5
billion, maybe a billion people without any energy, access to
energy whatsoever in the world and their desire to have what we
have taken for granted.
But also, the threat because of all the terrorism that goes
on and how susceptible we are and that is cyber, as we talked
about. Also us being on the cutting edge, if you will, and our
ability to stay ahead of the rest of the world and the other
nations who want to challenge our status, by using energy as a
geopolitical tool and holding people hostage, and all the
things that are going to be under your purview.
I just want you to know you are going to have us as
partners with you. We want you to succeed. We want you to do
well. We want you to be able to come to the Committee and not
look at us as Democrats and Republicans but as Americans that
want our country to prosper, but to help lift others around the
world that are seeking the same opportunities in life that we
have been able to have.
So I wish you well. Godspeed.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, sir.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Manchin, well said.
Deputy Secretary, you have fielded a range of issues here
this morning, everything from the Arctic to advanced nuclear to
the waste issues to critical minerals, energy storage, LNG. We
have covered the gamut, and you have articulated very well from
a policy perspective. It is quite clear that your knowledge,
the breadth and depth of it, of energy writ large, is very
substantive but also your keen understanding of the Department
of Energy, its responsibilities, its roles and the promise that
it can hold, again, not only for this country, but for other
nations as they look to our leadership in so many of these
different areas.
I am a little concerned, however, you have made commitments
here to visit Alaska, West Virginia, Arizona, Montana, Maine,
Wyoming and Nevada. I am a little concerned you are not going
to have time for the day job here. But we will work with you as
you seek to gain better understanding and appreciation of all
that our great states have to offer in these very important
areas.
Again, I want to thank your family for joining you here
today.
To you, I have never seen such well-behaved young people
sitting behind their father, no squiggling, no squirming. I did
catch a little bit of a nap there, and I am totally with you on
that, guy.
[Laughter.]
But I also want to recognize your national lab family that
you have here. We know that the men and women who serve in our
national labs are an extraordinary, extraordinary, asset to our
country, and I know that they are a very tight-knit group,
having hosted many of you in the State of Alaska. So the fact
that they are here in your support is also a testament to the
dedication that you have to this job.
I think, based on what I have heard today, you will have
strong support moving out of this Committee. It is my intention
to try to move you through the Committee process just as
rapidly as possible.
Secretary Perry has announced that he will be departing on
the first of December, and we would like to see a seamless
transition there as we move your name forward to assume this
very important position as Secretary of Energy.
We thank you for being here. We thank you for your time,
your leadership and your vision.
With that, the Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.]
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