    [Senate Hearing 116-188]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 116-188

                       NOMINATION OF HON. PETER T. GAYNOR

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                                  COMMITTEE ON

                   HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS

                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

            NOMINATION OF HON. PETER T. GAYNOR TO BE ADMINISTRATOR,
       FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND
                                    SECURITY

                                   __________

                               NOVEMBER 14, 2019

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                           Printed for the use of the
            Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

            COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                ______

                  U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
     38-577 PDF              WASHINGTON : 2020

                        RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin, Chairman
    ROB PORTMAN, Ohio                    GARY C. PETERS, Michigan
    RAND PAUL, Kentucky                  THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware
    JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma             MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire
    MITT ROMNEY, Utah                    KAMALA D. HARRIS, California
    RICK SCOTT, Florida                  KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona
    MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming             JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
    JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri

                    Gabrielle D'Adamo Singer, Staff Director
                Michelle D. Woods, Director of Homeland Security
                   Andrew J. Timm, Professional Staff Member
                 Barrett F. Percival, Professional Staff Member
                   David M. Weinberg, Minority Staff Director
                   Zachary I. Schram, Minority Chief Counsel
                  Harlan C. Geer, Minority Staff Director, FSO
                     Claudine J. Brenner, Minority Counsel
              Jillian R. Joyce, Minority Professional Staff Member
                         Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk
                         Thomas J. Spino, Hearing Clerk

                                C O N T E N T S

                                     ------
    Opening statements:
                                                                       Page
        Senator Johnson..............................................     1
        Senator Hassan...............................................     3
        Senator Scott................................................     9
        Senator Hawley...............................................    12
        Senator Carper...............................................    14
        Senator Rosen................................................    17
        Senator Lankford.............................................    19
        Senator Romney...............................................    22
        Senator Sinema...............................................    28
    Prepared statements:
        Senator Johnson..............................................    35
        Senator Hassan...............................................    36

                                   WITNESSES
                          Thursday, November 14, 2019

    Hon. Jack Reed, a U.S. Senator from the State of Rhode Island
        Testimony....................................................     1
        Prepared statement...........................................    38
    Hon. Peter T. Gaynor to be Administrator, Federal Emergency
      Management Agency, U.S. Department of Homeland Security
        Testimony....................................................     4
        Prepared statement...........................................    39
        Biographical and professional information....................    41
        Letter from the Office of Government Ethics..................    61
        Responses to pre-hearing question............................    64
        Responses to post-hearing questions..........................    97
        Letter of Support............................................   102

                          NOMINATION OF THE HONORABLE

                      PETER T. GAYNOR TO BE ADMINISTRATOR,

                          FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT

                  AGENCY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

                                  ----------

                          THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2019

                                         U.S. Senate,
                               Committee on Homeland Security
                                      and Governmental Affairs,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:33 a.m., in
    room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Ron Johnson,
    Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
        Present: Senators Johnson, Lankford, Romney, Scott, Hawley,
    Peters, Carper, Hassan, Sinema, and Rosen.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JOHNSON

        Chairman Johnson. Good morning. This hearing will be called
    to order.
        Today we are considering the nomination of Mr. Peter Gaynor
    to be the Administrator of the Federal Emergency Management
    Agency (FEMA), and I am pleased to see that Senator Jack Reed
    is here to introduce Mr. Gaynor. So, without further ado,
    Senator Reed.

       STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE JACK REED,\1\ A UNITED STATES
                 SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND

        Senator Reed. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Chairman
    Johnson, Senator Hassan, and Senator Scott, thank you for the
    opportunity to introduce Peter Gaynor, whom the President has
    nominated as the Administrator of the Federal Emergency
    Management Agency.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Reed appears in the Appendix
    on page 38.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        A little over a year ago, I had the opportunity to
    introduce Peter to the Committee at his confirmation hearing
    for the post of Deputy Administrator of FEMA. It is a pleasure
    to be back before you again.
        Let me begin by acknowledging Acting Administrator Gaynor's
    family and friends, particularly his wife, Sue. Thank you, Sue.
    I want to commend them for their great support of Peter of his
    entire career.
        FEMA is a flagship Federal agency for disaster preparedness
    and response. Today it faces extraordinary challenges
    confronting the very real effects of climate-related disasters,
    reforming the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP),
    administering critical grant programs, and helping ready the
    Nation for possible chemical, biological, and radiological
    attacks.
        In carrying out their jobs, the 14,000 women and men of
    FEMA are often called upon to help people who are going through
    the worst experiences of their lives. These can be hard jobs.
    To ensure that the agency and its people are capable of meeting
    such extraordinary challenges, FEMA must have steady,
    competent, professional, and permanent leadership that forces a
    positive culture focused on its mission.
        Having started in the U.S. Marine Corps (USMC) as a Private
    and working his way up to Lieutenant Colonel, having served as
    a management director for the city of Providence in the State
    of Rhode Island, and having served as FEMA Deputy Administrator
    and Acting Administrator under President Trump, Peter Gaynor
    understands the importance of building a team that can fulfill
    its mission without fear or favor.
        Mr. Chairman, FEMA needs a capable leader at this critical
    time, and I hope you give Mr. Gaynor's nomination every
    consideration. Thank you for your consideration.
        Thank you.
        Chairman Johnson. Well, thank you, Senator Reed. You have
    pretty well stolen my thunder, so I will just ask that my
    written statement be entered in the record.\2\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \2\ The prepared statement of Senator Johnson appears in the
    Appendix on page 35.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        I certainly want to welcome the nominee. Thank you for your
    service to this Nation. I want to welcome all your family
    members, encourage you during your opening statement to
    introduce them as well.
        The only thing I will add outside of my opening statement
    is, first of all, the feedback we have already gotten in terms
    of your acting capacity. You have just done an excellent job.
        The importance of leadership within FEMA, recognizing that
    FEMA is just not only FEMA, when a disaster hits--and I have
    been down there in the Operations Center when you just surge
    other Federal employees from the Federal workforce inside the
    Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and outside of DHS. That
    level of dedication is really pretty extraordinary, and those
    men and women need steady leadership which you have already
    provided in an acting capacity now, as you are nominee to be
    the full-time confirmed Administrator of FEMA. I just truly
    appreciate that.
        Also, I think your recognition, as we spoke, of the
    structure of emergency management, which is really locally
    executed, State and federally support, it kind of goes in that,
    and what we need to do and why we have all these grant
    programs, that the Federal Government encourage the States and
    the cities to be prepared, to mitigate any kind of natural
    disasters that occur, and then pretty much be able to handle it
    as best they can until it gets to a point where FEMA has to
    come in and then FEMA be ready to swoop in.
        Since Hurricane Katrina, I think the record is pretty
    clear, FEMA has really upped its game, and we are getting
    better and better and better at that as well.
        So, again, it is an agency that I think we have witnessed
    dramatic improvement. I come from a manufacturing background.
    Nothing is ever perfect. I am into continuous improvement, and
    I really, truly believe that you are the person that will
    continue us along that path.
        So, with that, I will turn it over to Senator Hassan.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN\1\

        Senator Hassan. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome,
    Mr. Gaynor.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Hassan appears in the
    Appendix on page 36.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        I want to thank Ranking Member Peters for the opportunity
    to serve as Ranking Member at this important hearing today.
        Mr. Gaynor, I want to thank you not only for being here
    this morning but for your service to our Nation as a marine and
    as an emergency manager and for the past year as Deputy and
    then Acting Administrator for FEMA.
        And I would be remiss if I did not also thank your family.
    Public service is a family business, and their support, I know,
    is incredibly important to you, and it has made your service
    possible, so a special thank-you to them.
        Our Nation faces serious challenges when it comes to
    emergency management, and I also want to take a moment to
    acknowledge the incredibly hardworking men and women at FEMA
    who really do extraordinary service in very difficult
    circumstances.
        But I want to focus a little bit on the challenges that I
    think are before FEMA as well that you are going to be asked to
    address. The science definitively shows, for instance, that
    climate change is causing more intense weather events with
    ever-increasing frequency. If FEMA ignores these realities,
    then it does so at the peril of the Americans who depend on the
    agency for mitigating and recovering from extreme natural
    disasters.
        We only have to look to the 2017 hurricane season, when
    major disasters concurrently struck Puerto Rico, Texas,
    Florida, and California, and overwhelmed FEMA's capabilities to
    give us a view of the future of effects of global climate
    change on U.S. safety and security.
        And beyond natural disasters, State and local governments
    are contending with a wide range of other catastrophic events.
    Across the Country, schools, hospitals, municipalities, county
    governments, and State agencies have been hit by an outbreak of
    ransomware attacks that are affecting key services and
    disrupting our economy.
        FEMA must work with its fellow agencies, including the
    Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), in
    order to help State and local governments prevent and recover
    from these cyberattacks. The next Administrator must make this
    cooperation and coordination a key priority.
        Finally, FEMA must get its own house in order. Eighteen
    months ago, then Administrator Brock Long announced that sexual
    harassment at FEMA was a ``systemic problem going on for
    years'' and that senior officials at FEMA must work toward
    ``the eradication of this cancer.'' Yet only now is FEMA's key
    management tool for addressing sexual harassment in the
    workplace, the Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR),
    being fully stood up and staffed. While steps are apparently
    under way toward changing FEMA's toxic culture, progress has
    not come fast enough, and much more work needs to be done.
        I truly appreciated our discussion yesterday in my office
    about these critical issues. I look forward to your testimony
    today and working with you to ensure that our Country has a
    healthy and fully functional emergency management component.
        Thank you, and thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Senator Hassan.
        It is the tradition of this Committee to swear in
    witnesses, so if you will stand and arise your right hand. Do
    you swear that the testimony you will give before this
    Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
    the truth, so help you, God?
        Mr. Gaynor. I do.
        Chairman Johnson. Please be seated.
        Peter Gaynor has served as Acting Administrator for FEMA
    since March 8, 2019, as mentioned. He has over a decade of
    experience at local, State, and Federal levels of emergency
    management. Prior to his career in emergency management, he
    served for 26 years in the United States Marine Corps. Mr.
    Gaynor.

    TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE PETER T. GAYNOR,\1\ NOMINATED TO BE
       ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY, U.S.
                    DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

        Mr. Gaynor. Good morning, Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member
    Hassan, and distinguished Members of the Committee. My name is
    Pete Gaynor, and it is a privilege to appear before you today
    as the President's nominee for the position of FEMA
    Administrator. Once again, I am honored to have been nominated
    by the President for this critical Federal Emergency Management
    leadership role.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Gaynor appears in the Appendix on
    page 39.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        I would first like to recognize a few members of my family
    and friends that are here today--my wife Sue, my friends, Peter
    Marinucci and Fred Stolle, who came from Rhode Island to give
    me support. So thanks for being here, and also thank you for
    all the support everyone has given me throughout my career. I
    really greatly appreciate that.
        To the Members of this Committee, I would like to thank you
    for the support and trust you have placed in me during my last
    confirmation hearing in August 2018 for the position of FEMA
    Deputy Administrator.
        Since my first day at FEMA, a little over a year ago, I
    have had the pleasure of serving the agency as both the Deputy
    and as the Acting Administrator. In these roles, I have
    traveled the Country, engaging with our dedicated and mission-
    focused workforce. I firmly believe FEMA has the best mission
    in Federal Government. I have seen firsthand the dedication our
    employees exhibit from the FEMA Corps employee members to our
    incident workforce, local hires, reservists, and full-time
    employees. They are devoted every day to helping people before,
    during, and after disasters.
        Each disaster response must be locally executed, State
    managed, and federally supported. FEMA cannot accomplish this
    mission alone. It requires mature and strong partnerships at
    the State, local, tribal, and territorial (SLTT) levels. It
    requires a firm bond with our voluntary, non-governmental, and
    private partners. It requires a prepared citizenry across
    neighborhoods, businesses, and communities.
        Not to be forgotten is our many mission partners, the DHS
    Surge Capacity Force, the Department of Defense (DOD), the
    American Red Cross, and many others that make success possible.
    It is only through Unity of Effort that the Nation can be fully
    prepared for the next catastrophic event.
        Briefly, I would like to describe my background,
    experience, and qualifications for the position which I have
    been nominated. As previously stated, I have spent 26 years
    serving my Country in the United States Marine Corps as an
    enlisted marine and subsequently as a Commissioned Officer.
        I have learned how to succeed in chaotic situations, use
    intellect to overcome daunting obstacles, to never quit, and
    most importantly, that personal integrity is paramount.
        I know firsthand the importance of an effective emergency
    response and the Homeland Security mission. I served at
    Headquarters in the Marine Corps as the head of Operations and
    personally witnessed the attack on the Pentagon in our Country
    on September 11, 2001. Prior to September 11, 2001, I served as
    the Executive Officer responsible for the security of the
    President at Camp David.
        After retiring from the Marine Corps in late 2007, I
    transitioned into the field of emergency management, serving as
    the Emergency Management Director for both the city of
    Providence and the State of Rhode Island. I believe my time as
    an emergency manager at all levels, combined with my military
    service, gives me a unique perspective on the challenges for
    the position for which I am nominated.
        It is imperative that the American public have the highest
    trust and confidence in FEMA's capabilities. This agency is
    often the last line of hope when a disaster strikes and
    cripples a community. We must be able to deliver life-saving,
    life-sustaining resources on that community's worst day.
        We continue to champion our Strategic Plan, focusing on our
    three goals: first to build a culture of preparedness, second
    to ready the Nation for the catastrophic disaster, and third to
    reduce the complexity of FEMA.
        This job is about people, the disaster survivors we serve
    and individuals who serve them. Today the FEMA team is actively
    engaged in recovery missions from hurricanes in the Caribbean,
    floods in the Central Plains, wildfires in California to
    typhoons in the Northern Mariana Islands. It is my firm belief
    that if we take care of and empower the people of FEMA, then
    these dedicated public servants will deliver meaningful and
    much needed assistance to our citizens when they need it the
    most.
        Our Nation is counting on us, and we will do it in
    accordance with our core values of compassion, fairness,
    integrity, and respect. We are the sole owners of our mission,
    and each employee must be the embodiment of these core values.
        This month, we are going to release our capstone doctrine,
    FEMA Publication 1 entitled ``We are FEMA.'' With our core
    values as our guide, it will provide direction for how we
    conduct ourselves and make the best decisions for the agency
    and the disaster survivor. It will promote unity of purpose,
    guide professional judgment, and enable each employee to
    fulfill their responsibilities. This document coupled with our
    Strategic Plan, and our soon-to-be-released Blueprint for
    Business Excellence will serve as the roadmap for the future of
    the agency.
        We are not perfect. We must accept responsibility for our
    shortcomings and seek out solutions so our mistakes will not be
    repeated. However, for any failures we may have had, I can show
    you countless success stories, large and small, that have made
    a difference in bettering the lives of disaster survivors and
    furthering the preparedness of the Nation. Every day, the men
    and women of FEMA make me proud.
        I can think of no higher honor than serving the American
    people as the FEMA Administrator. Thank you for your
    consideration for my nomination. I look forward to answering
    any questions you may have.
        Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Gaynor.
        There are three questions the Committee asks of every
    nominee for the record, and I will ask these. And then I will
    turn it over to Senator Hassan and hold my questions for the
    end.
        First, is there anything you are aware of in your
    background that might present a conflict of interest with the
    duties of the office to which you have been nominated?
        Mr. Gaynor. No, sir.
        Chairman Johnson. Do you know of anything, personal or
    otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and
    honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to
    which you have been nominated?
        Mr. Gaynor. No, sir.
        Chairman Johnson. Do you agree without reservation to
    comply with any request or summons to appear and testify before
    any duly constituted committee of Congress if you are
    confirmed?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        Chairman Johnson. Thank you. Senator Hassan.
        Senator Hassan. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair, again, and
    thank you, Mr. Gaynor.
        I just want to start by addressing a matter that has come
    to light since your previous nomination hearing before this
    Committee. According to documents that you submitted to the
    Committee, you disclosed that 1998, during your time with the
    Marines, that you were the subject of a command assessment and
    command investigation. Could you please describe the
    circumstances of this investigation to the Committee, and what
    were the results of this inquiry?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.
        As stated, in 1998, I was the commanding officer of
    Recruiting Station Detroit in Detroit, Michigan. A marine in my
    command who was under scrutiny for poor performance made
    several allegations and false claims about me and my command
    staff.
        As you know from the report, I was completely cleared of
    any allegations of bias or prejudice, as was my entire command.
        This was an unfortunate incident where there was a lack of
    sensitivity and poor communication that allowed for false
    claims to be perpetuated, and as I look back and reflect on
    this particular moment in my 25-plus years in the Marine Corps,
    it really reshaped the way I communicate with my superiors, my
    peers, and the people I lead at FEMA today.
        So I remain committed to creating a workplace that is
    diverse, inclusive, and ensuring everyone feels welcome and a
    part of the FEMA team.
        Senator Hassan. Well, thank you for that, and I appreciate
    the disclosure. And I thank you for discussing this matter with
    the Committee. I will leave it up for some of my colleagues if
    they want to follow up with you should they have additional
    questions.
        Mr. Gaynor, several weeks ago, FEMA's Director of the
    National Exercise Division, Mr. Chad Gorman, briefed me on
    FEMA's 2020 National Level Exercise. As you know, the 2020
    Exercise focuses around widespread cyberattacks with
    significant impacts to critical infrastructure, resulting in a
    domestic national security emergency. Do you agree with me that
    FEMA should play a role in mitigating the impact of
    cyberattacks on our State and local governments?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, ma'am. With our many partners, we are part
    of that response.
        Senator Hassan. And what steps will you take to ensure that
    FEMA is working closely with the Cybersecurity and
    Infrastructure Security Agency and prepared to keep pace with
    this ever-changing threat?
        Mr. Gaynor. Ma'am, there is not a week that goes by that we
    do not have a conversation with our partners at CISA. I
    personally have a close relationship with the director, and
    they are part of our national response when it comes to
    disasters.
        We just rewrote the National Response Framework (NRF), and
    cybersecurity and infrastructure is prominently in there. We
    have a solid relationship, and cyber is one of the top
    priorities for FEMA and for the Department.
        Senator Hassan. It is a top priority for me. It is a top
    priority for our constituents and I think for all of us who are
    familiar with aspects of emergency management, understanding
    that cybersecurity is critical to emergency management and
    critical to preparedness as well. It is something that we all
    have to keep in mind.
        Mr. Gaynor, as Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on
    Federal Spending Oversight and Emergency Management, I am
    particularly interested in ensuring that the Federal Government
    spends taxpayer dollars wisely and efficiently. Toward that
    end, did you know in 2018, a FEMA-sponsored report indicated
    that every dollar spent on Federal mitigation grants saves
    society $6 overall?
        So, during your time at FEMA, what steps have you taken to
    improve hazard mitigation efforts, and what steps will you take
    in the future?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, ma'am. So, first, let me thank Congress
    for passing the Disaster Recovery Reform Act (DRRA), which has
    a provision, Section 1234. We call it Building Resilient
    Infrastructure in Communities (BRIC), which allows us to set
    aside 6 percent of all disaster costs and make that investment
    in pre-disaster mitigation.
        So we are working on a new innovative transformational way.
    We look at pre-disaster mitigation in the Country. So that is
    the development of BRIC.
        Senator Hassan. Yes.
        Mr. Gaynor. Today Congress also provided a bridge from the
    legacy program, Pre-Disaster Mitigation (PDM), until we have
    BRIC on the streets in October 2020.
        Senator Hassan. OK.
        Mr. Gaynor. So today there is $250 million, five times what
    we traditionally had on the street legacy for States and locals
    to apply to today, start using some money to do pre-disaster
    mitigation that makes their jurisdictions more resilient and
    more robust.
        So we are really excited about the opportunity to really
    make a difference when we invest in pre-disaster mitigation to
    reduce that risk, loss of life and loss of property, before a
    disaster strikes.
        Senator Hassan. Thank you.
        Last topic. As you well know and as I mentioned in my
    opening, FEMA is struggling with serious problems relating to
    sexual harassment of its female employees. Last year, FEMA
    Administrator Brock Long called sexual harassment at the agency
    ``a systemic problem going back years'' and said that one of
    his biggest challenges would be the ``eradication of this
    cancer.''
        It will be imperative that the next FEMA Administrator and
    any future FEMA Administrators have the highest integrity on
    this matter, that they lead by example and adopt a zero-
    tolerance policy for sexual harassment.
        Simply put, changing an agency's toxic culture requires the
    top agency officials to set the tone for the entire agency.
        Toward that end, I am going to ask you the same series of
    questions that I asked the previous FEMA nominee that came
    before this Committee.
        First, have you ever been accused of or disciplined for
    sexually harassing your colleagues in any previous position?
        Mr. Gaynor. No, ma'am.
        Senator Hassan. Second, have you ever been accused of or
    disciplined for any inappropriate sexual behavior with a
    colleague?
        Mr. Gaynor. No, ma'am.
        Senator Hassan. Third, in your opinion, have you adopted a
    zero-tolerance policy for sexual harassment in the workplace in
    all of your previous positions?
        Mr. Gaynor. Absolutely, ma'am. Sexual harassment is not
    tolerated.
        Senator Hassan. Fourth, will you commit to taking swift
    action against any future instances of sexual harassment
    perpetrated by employees of FEMA?
        Mr. Gaynor. Absolutely.
        Senator Hassan. And, finally, what steps will you take
    specifically to change the culture within the agency, including
    to encourage reporting to punish transgressors and to train
    staff?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, ma'am. I think one of the most important
    things my predecessor Brock Long started and I in the process
    of making real is the Office of Professional Responsibility.
        Prior to this incident in 2017, it did not exist. There was
    nowhere for a female employee to go to really----
        Senator Hassan. Raise a concern?
        Mr. Gaynor [continuing]. Raise a concern and see it get
    validated and adjudicated to the end. So it has taken us a
    little while to get it stood up because we are doing this out
    of hide, making sure that this is our priority. So people in
    facilities, all those things take a little bit.
        The director I personally hired reports to me directly. I
    meet with her every day or every week about what cases are
    pending, the status of cases. This has the highest priority
    within FEMA, and it will remain so, because, again, sexual
    harassment is not tolerated at FEMA.
        Senator Hassan. Well, thank you, and we need every
    employee, male or female, to be operating at their full
    capacity and their full potential.
        Thank you, Mr. Gaynor, for your answers, and thank you, Mr.
    Chair. I yield back.
        Mr. Gaynor. Thank you, ma'am.
        Chairman Johnson. Senator Scott.

                   OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SCOTT

        Senator Scott. Mr. Gaynor, first of all, thank you for what
    you do.
        There is not a lot of people that started at the private
    level and get to commissioned officer in any branch of the
    service, and I am sure it was very difficult in the Marine
    Corps. So I want to thank you for your service as a marine. I
    want to thank your family for their commitment, and I just want
    to thank you.
        FEMA is not perfect, like no group is, but I can tell you
    what. There is not one person I have ever called at FEMA that
    they were not responsive, and the face of FEMA for me has been
    Gracia Szczech because she ran the Southeast my entire 8 years
    as Governor, and she just showed up all the time. Whatever I
    called about, she was responsive.
        To this day, people--as you know, everybody wants to blame
    everything on FEMA and think it is always FEMA's responsibility
    if something does not get done and FEMA is holding everything
    up, which I do not believe that is true. So I always tell
    everybody that you should call directly, Gracia Szczech, and
    she will find out where everything is. And she does it every
    time.
        So you should be really proud of the people you have.
        Mr. Gaynor. Sir, I have a great team. Gracia is one of
    those great teammates around the country. I have 20,000 great
    teammates that do their very best every day for the American
    public.
        Senator Scott. I think one of the biggest issues that FEMA
    has is people do not know your purpose. I think people think
    that, ultimately, FEMA is going to pay for everything, and they
    think that FEMA is a first response organization and an
    organization that is responsive generally to the Governor of
    the State or Territory and then to be supportive of locals.
        How do you get that message? First off, am I right, and
    then how do you get that message out?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir. Typically, people think that the
    Federal Government, to include FEMA, will make it all right.
    This is just not a problem at Federal Government. I have been
    in emergency management for 12 years now, and it is probably a
    challenge at every level of government, so local, State, and
    Federal, about setting the right expectations.
        As a local emergency manager and a State emergency manager
    and now the Acting Administrator, I tell people that FEMA does
    not make you whole, and that is something we have to discuss
    more. We have to create more awareness. We have to encourage
    preparedness across the Country so people take action to
    prepare themselves, their family, their business.
        I think as Senator Johnson alluded to, this is a shared
    responsibility we have responding to disasters. Locally
    executed, all disasters start locally and end locally. So the
    locals have to have a capacity. State managed, if the local
    gets----
        Senator Scott. If the locals do not do well, it is very
    difficult for FEMA to do well.
        Mr. Gaynor. If they do not do well, their backstop is the
    State that can redirect resources, and then from my point of
    view, I need States with great capacity because if I have
    States with great capacity, it makes it easier on me. So it is
    a shared responsibility up and down, not only for disasters but
    for preparedness.
        We are attacking that at all levels to make sure that we
    encourage the locals and States to build true local capacity,
    true State capacity, and therefore, you have more national
    capacity when you need it.
        Senator Scott. I think you have heard the story about how
    we would have a contract for our local debris cleanup was $8.50
    a cubic yard. Then there was a contract that the Corps had with
    the same sort of companies, with the same companies, with over
    $70.
        I have done a bill called the Disaster Contract
    Transparency Act. I do not know if you have had a chance to
    look at it, if you have any thoughts, but what do you think
    about something like that? What are you doing to try to make
    sure? Because there is not like unlimited dollars up there.
    That is what I tell everybody. If we waste money over here,
    there is less money to spend to do something that is good over
    here.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir. I think, again, going back to my
    local and State and now Federal experience, we are pretty good
    as locals and States and Federal in response. I think we do
    pretty well at that.
        One of the things I think we struggle with is recovery.
    Recovery has a long lead time. In some cases, big disasters
    become complicated and convoluted, and it is never fast enough,
    even if you are moving as fast as you can.
        So we encourage at every level, locals and States, to have
    recovery plans and test those recovery plans and exercise those
    recovery plans.
        We also encourage, I think, pre-disaster contracts that you
    are getting to. Have a contract ready to go when you need it
    should a disaster happen. Do not try to do it after the
    disaster because now you are competing with others who want the
    same thing that you want, in this case, debris removal, and in
    some cases, you pay a premium for that.
        The Corps of Engineers and DOD, they are premium providers,
    and they come at a cost. They do an awesome job. There is no
    one better at it, at debris removal or big tasks like DOD, but
    you are going to pay that premium on it.
        These disasters are not free. There is a cost to all of it,
    and again, I go back to it is a shared responsibility by all of
    us.
        Senator Scott. One issue that has impacted Florida is flood
    insurance. I think it is now 40 years since flood insurance has
    been around. We have been a 4:1 donor State.
        Then what we watched while I was Governor is in certain
    areas, we had a significant increase in our rates under the
    National Flood Insurance Program, and what I tried to do is get
    to build, the private sector. For a State like Florida, it
    would be a lot cheaper than participating in a national
    program.
        One, do you believe in that? What can FEMA do to help
    accelerate that? I think the more government can get out of the
    business of providing insurance or products that the private
    sector can do, it seems better to me at least.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir. I think there are a couple fronts on
    this.
        So when it comes to flood insurance and individuals, the
    best offense, if you are a homeowner, is flood insurance. It
    has flooded in 98 percent of the counties in the United States.
    So just because you are not in Miami or in Tampa does not mean
    you are not going to get flooded. If you are in Arizona or in
    the middle of the country, Midwest, likely you are going to
    have a flooding event during the length of mortgage of your
    home. So we want people to invest in flood insurance.
        If I can just tell you a story about what is that value
    that we offer in flood insurance. If I go back to Hurricane
    Harvey in Houston, we have a program called Individual
    Assistance (IA), and the max we can give an individual that has
    been, in this case, flooded out of their home is about $34,000.
    That is the max we could give out for assistance, temporary
    housing.
        The average we actually gave out in Florida was about
    $4,000. Very few people maxed out the $34,000 cap on that IA
    program.
        If you had flood insurance from NFIP, the average payout
    was about $110,000. You can do a lot with $4,000, but you can
    do much more with $110,000, especially if you get flooded out
    of your home. So it really is the best defense.
        On the other side about updating NFIP, it has not been
    updated. The actuarial practices have not been updated in 50
    years. We are on a course to make sure that insurance is risk-
    based, is actuarially sound, and is property-specific, and so
    we are on a mission to update that. There are a lot of
    intricate moves we have to make with rates, and we want to take
    our time to make sure that we get it right.
        But back to the original premise, flood insurance is your
    best defense.
        Senator Scott. You do a great a job.
        Mr. Gaynor. Thank you, sir.
        Chairman Johnson. Senator Hawley.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HAWLEY

        Senator Hawley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Gaynor, I want to thank you on behalf of the people of
    Missouri for you and your team's work in the State, your hard
    work this year in what has been an unprecedented flooding
    season in the State of Missouri, and I enjoyed the chance to
    talk with you at some length about this last week in my office.
        Let me just ask you a few of the questions, a few of the
    topics to return to, a few of the topics that we discussed,
    beginning with Individual Assistance, and as I said to you
    then, this question of the distribution of IA is the top issue
    my constituents face when they are in the midst of the sort of
    severe flooding that we have experienced in my State. And I
    wrote to you about this on July 31, and you responded on August
    the 30.
        Let me just ask you. Among the issues that are very
    important to us in the State of Missouri is the designation,
    FEMA's designation of counties that might be eligible for IA.
    Can you explain a little bit how FEMA goes about making that
    designation? Because this is a question that I have at home all
    the time and that, frankly, Missourians want to hear about.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        Just in the general look at a disaster, we try to look at
    every disaster as it is a unique disaster. We look at it on its
    own merits because we want to be fair and objective about the
    level of disaster and the level of impact on a community.
        When it comes to determining the level of impact in a
    community, we do this as a team. Local emergency managers,
    State emergency managers, and my team, the Federal emergency
    managers, go out into the community and look at damage from a
    disaster. So we call it a Preliminary Damage Assessment (PDAs).
        From all those PDAs, we determine does it meet criteria,
    and then it goes to the Governor of the State to determine if
    he or she wants to forward a request for a major declaration to
    the President.
        There is lots in between that, but that is the simple
    process. In some cases, it is obvious how big the damage is. In
    other cases, it takes a little while.
        Flooding is problematic. Especially this year, we have had
    flooding from the Canadian border to the Mexican border and as
    wide as Kansas through Kentucky and many other States in there,
    about 47 disasters this year out of about 70 disasters were
    flooding.
        Senator Hawley. Let me ask you this. Tell us about how FEMA
    communicates with and conducts assessments in hard-to-reach
    areas.
        In my State, the areas that have been hardest hit by the
    flooding, most of the areas have been hardest hit are rural.
    Some of them are very rural, and something that I hear a lot
    from folks there who have been affected is they do not know.
    They do not know what the status is of their claims. They do
    not know what FEMA is doing. They are not always sure how to
    get in touch with you or what the process is for submitting a
    claim. So how do you go about communicating that?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir. So, in a disaster, it is really door-
    to-door, going out with that team and going door-to-door and
    seeing if people have been impacted, recording all that,
    encouraging people to register so they can be in the registry.
    So, if they have claim, we know about it, and we can track it.
        In some cases, power is down. You cannot get on your
    Internet. Maybe you have no telephone service. You cannot get
    on your telephone. But the last resort is knocking on doors and
    make sure we get to every single person.
        So it is intensive, but we want to make sure that we touch
    everyone and not miss anyone.
        Senator Hawley. Let me ask you about something odd that we
    have seen with the flooding in Missouri here this past year,
    and that is some of my constituents being awarded IA, and then
    FEMA asking for the money back.
        In one case in Craig, Missouri, for instance, FEMA demanded
    that a constituents rescind her IA because her home was a
    second home, but, of course, she had only acquired this so-
    called second home because her first home was flooded and was
    unavailable. And she had applied for IA in Craig at her first
    home, where she lived for most of her life, but then when she
    moved to this other residence, then she was ultimately asked to
    give the money back. That is just one example. I have heard
    many similar cases.
        Can you elaborate for us how that kind of thing happens and
    what the right remedy is?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir. I mean, I cannot comment exactly on
    all the facts, but I would be happy to work with you and your
    staff to kind of maybe unravel some of those facts.
        Senator Hawley. That would be great.
        Mr. Gaynor. Not only on that one but any that you may have.
        So the way we operate is on eligibility. If it is eligible
    under the law, then typically, we will provide disaster
    assistance.
        The other thing that we have to balance is duplication of
    benefits. Is there another agency out there? Is insurance
    payout first? I mean, there is lots of different criteria that
    we use to make sure that, first of all, we get disaster
    assistance in the hands of disaster survivors and we keep with
    the intent of the law. We do not want to give more than the law
    allows because then again we are forced to come back--and in
    this case, the example that you gave, have to come back and get
    it. That is the last thing we want to do.
        In some cases, we are slow and deliberate to make sure we
    get it right the first time, but again, I would be happy to
    look into some of these cases and maybe provide some greater
    detail to you and your staff.
        Senator Hawley. Great. Well, we look forward to working
    with you on that, and I thank you again for the work that FEMA
    has done in Missouri this past year. A lot of Missourians still
    have questions. Of course, a lot of them are still out of their
    homes. I mean, the flooding has been quite severe in the State.
    The displacement has been broad and wide, and we look forward
    to continuing to work with you and your staff to make sure that
    people get the assistance that they need and that they get the
    information that they need in order to understand the process
    and apply and get the assistance.
        Thank you.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Johnson. Senator Carper.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER

        Senator Carper. Semper Fi.
        Mr. Gaynor. Semper Fi, sir.
        Senator Carper. Senator, Governor Scott was enlisted Navy,
    and I am the son of a 30-year Navy chief and a retired Navy
    captain myself. Navy Reserve Officers Training Corps (ROTC),
    Ohio State. Some of the best officers we had in the Navy, a lot
    of them came through a program called Navy Enlisted
    Classification Attainment Program (NECAP). Some of them we had
    were called Mustangs, and they were some of the finest officers
    I ever served with. So thank you for all of your service.
        Mr. Gaynor. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Carper. I like to tell people. People say, ``Well,
    what is Delaware like?'' I say, ``It is the 49th largest State
    in the Country, and it is because Rhode Island is out there
    that we hold that distinction. [Laughter.]
        Mr. Gaynor. We are going to hold on to that, I think, sir.
        Senator Carper. I have been to Rhode Island any number of
    times. I love your State. In fact, I remember being a
    midshipman on a destroyer out in Newport, the Dyess, DD-880,
    and that summer that I showed up, it was after my freshman
    year. I was about 18 years old. They were having the Newport
    Folk Festival. That was the year that Bob Dylan played rock and
    roll and got booed off the stage, a memorable summer.
        I also remember being on the Dyess, DD-880, out in the
    middle of the Atlantic and being run over by a hurricane, and
    that is not something I want to do again soon.
        Speaking of bad weather, some of my colleagues have been
    talking about bad weather that has visited their States. There
    is a place not far from here called Ellicott City that you may
    have heard of where they have had two 1,000-year floods within
    18 months.
        I was down in Houston when they had a really bad hurricane
    a couple of years ago. They have experienced, I am told, three
    500-year floods in Houston in about 2 years.
        My son, one of our sons, lives in the Bay Area in
    California. They have not gotten a lot of rain out there this
    year, and they have had, as you know, wildfires the size of our
    States and hurricane-force winds.
        Earlier this year, I was in Iowa, about a month ago, with
    my wife. We were campaigning for Joe Biden in the western part
    of the State in his bid for the presidency, and I remember
    going for a run along the Missouri River, where they had huge
    flooding, and even months later, you could still see the
    vestiges of the floods. The farmers were unable to plant for
    much of the spring. We had the same situation in Delaware.
        All of what I am doing--there is a great song by--speaking
    of music, a great song written by Stephen Stills, Crosby,
    Stills, and Nash, that starts off with the lyric, ``Something
    is happening here. Just what it is is not exactly clear.'' And
    for me, it is pretty clear what is going on.
        I just want to ask you, what do you think is going on?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        I am just talking general disasters and maybe a little more
    on hurricanes. If you look at the last 75 years, hurricanes
    more frequent, more intense, closer together, have generated a
    larger impact on the United States, extremely costly disasters,
    and you go back to 2017 and 2018.
        One of the things that helps overcoming these larger more
    frequent disasters is investment in pre-disaster mitigation. We
    know we are going to have hurricanes.
        Senator Carper. What do you think is causing this? That is
    what I am asking. What do you think is causing this?
        Mr. Gaynor. I am not a scientist.
        Senator Carper. I am not either. There are a lot of
    scientists in the world, and they are pretty much in unanimity
    as to what is going on. What do you think is going on?
        Mr. Gaynor. I do not know, sir.
        Senator Carper. That is not a very good answer.
        Mr. Gaynor. But what I----
        Senator Carper. Stop.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        Senator Carper. I asked my staff to let me know how much we
    are spending on disaster assistance just over the last couple
    of years, and I am told since 2005, it has approached a half
    trillion dollars. I think most Americans believe that the cause
    of this is a whole lot of carbon in the air, more than we have
    ever seen in the last, literally, million years. We have the
    scientific evidence to say that.
        The folks that were at the Government Accountability Office
    (GAO) really did not pay a whole lot of attention to climate
    change and invest what--the results of what is flowing from
    that. But in recent years, every 2 years, as you may know, at
    the beginning of every Congress, GAO puts out a high-risk list,
    and it is high-risk ways of us wasting money. They have become
    focusing on climate change.
        I guess my question of you is, Do you believe climate
    change is real?
        Mr. Gaynor. Sir, like I said----
        Senator Carper. It is not a tricky question. It is a pretty
    simple yes/no question. If you do, say so. If you do not, say
    ``I do not.''
        Mr. Gaynor. The climate has changed. I cannot attribute the
    scientific reasons why.
        Senator Carper. I am not asking you to do that.
        If you are confirmed, how will your knowledge of climate
    change inform your actions as FEMA Administrator?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        So I think one of the greatest things that Congress has
    done for us is the DRRA, investment in pre-disaster mitigation.
    For every $1 invested, before a disaster hits, we will get a $6
    return post-disaster. For me, it is really a practical thing
    about my mission.
        So we are committed to preparing for and responding to
    disasters, no matter the cause. We are an all-hazards agency,
    and one of the greatest tools you have provided is this pre-
    disaster mitigation funding, 6 percent set-aside. So we can be
    prepared for whatever happens, no matter the cause, and that is
    really my focus as the FEMA Administrator.
        I am going to be graded for what happens tomorrow, right?
    So if I can reduce the risk, if I can save lives by making
    investments today, if I can reduce damage to property by making
    investments today, then that is my mission.
        Senator Carper. I think GAO released a report that stated
    at the height of the 2017 disasters, a little over half of the
    staff, I think, at FEMA were serving in a capacity that they
    did not hold the title of qualified, qualified according to
    FEMA's qualification system standards. The GAO report noted
    that FEMA staff shortages and lack of trained personnel led to
    complications in response efforts, particularly after Hurricane
    Maria.
        I think it is understandable how after a large disaster,
    staff can take on roles that they may not have been fully
    prepared for or trained to handle. Due to the magnitude of the
    situation, that is understandable.
        However, if confirmed, how will you ensure that when the
    next disaster hits--we know it is coming. They are all coming,
    and how can you assure us that we will have more qualified
    individuals serving where we need them?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        I believe I have one of the highest-quality, ready
    workforces in Federal Government. When it comes to
    qualifications, many of our FEMA employees have a blue-sky job
    and many of them have a dual-disaster job. So qualifications
    are in constant need of update and upkeep because turnover is
    great. So we are looking on ways to improve, making sure people
    are qualified for their disaster work.
        When it comes to response and recovery, again, I will
    divide this into two pieces when it comes to staffing
    challenges. Response, we have no shortage of people who
    respond. Our challenge today is really on the recovery side.
        Again, I have 650 disasters that have been open since the
    year 2000 that we are dealing with. The hurricane season in
    2017, 2018, historic. I have 2,300 people in Puerto Rico right
    now assisting in the recovery of the Commonwealth. We have a
    program underway. It has been underway for a while to make sure
    that we aim at the qualified people that we need and to fill
    those ranks as fast as we can.
        Senator Carper. All right. If I could ask one last thing.
    There are several of us who serve here on this Committee are
    former Governors, and my last year as Governor, I gave my last
    State address, I was in the Governor's office afterwards and
    receiving. There is a whole lot of people, open house and
    people coming through to say hello and congratulations.
        One lady, an elderly lady, came up, an she said to me--she
    was going through my office. She said, ``Were you the Governor
    the year when we had the ice storm of the century?''
        I said, ``Yes, ma'am.''
        She said, ``Were you the Governor the year when we had the
    blizzard of the century?''
        I said, ``Yes, ma'am.''
        She said, ``Were you the Governor when we had the drought
    of the century?''
        I said, ``Yes, ma'am.''
        She said, ``Were you the Governor when we had the flood of
    the century?''
        I said, ``Yes, ma'am.''
        And she said, ``You know what I think?''
        I said, ``No, ma'am.''
        She said, ``I think you are bad luck.'' [Laughter.]
        That may be true, but we are lucky we have FEMA. And we are
    grateful to all the people with whom you work and lead.
        Mr. Gaynor. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Carper. Thank you for your extraordinary service,
    both now and in uniform.
        Mr. Gaynor. Thank you.
        Chairman Johnson. I think we probably ought to share i-List
    tunes. For somebody who likes folk music, I am surprised you
    did not quote Jackson Browne's ``Before the Deluge'' here.
        One of the problems we are facing is just the moral hazard
    of rebuilding in flood-prone areas, building incredibly
    expensive properties on shorelines that we know at some point
    in time are going to be hit by hurricanes. Just the general
    affluence of our society has created these, the cost of
    mitigation or some of these disasters as well, but that is part
    of the issue. Senator Rosen.

                   OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROSEN

        Senator Rosen. Thank you.
        I wish I had a song to quote. I have to come more prepared
    for that.
        But, really, I would want to say to you as we think about
    Veterans Day this week, we honor and are grateful for your
    service and your continued service. Like you said, this
    important mission that helps make our families and our
    communities whole again after a disaster that often takes away
    their priceless memories, pictures, their homes, all the little
    things that--people want to keep their lives, but all those
    things that make a home and a community, so thank you for that.
        But I would like to switch a little bit to talk about the
    Urban Areas Security Initiative (UASI). UASI is a vital program
    for protecting people in Las Vegas. I represent the State of
    Nevada. It helps protect Las Vegas, our critical infrastructure
    and our tourism economy. UASI grants assist high-threat, high-
    density urban areas like Las Vegas in preventing, mitigating,
    responding to, and recovering from terrorist attacks, and FEMA
    oversees this program.
        The UASI program ensures that urban law enforcement
    departments have the resources they need to defend large
    metropolitan areas against terrorism, but the program needs
    reform in order to better serve densely populated tourist
    destinations like Las Vegas.
        Nevada is home to a year-round population of about 3
    million people, but just in Clark County, in the Las Vegas area
    alone, we have nearly 50 million visitors a year. We host more
    than 20,000 conventions. So this really impacts our UASI-
    related needs. With this in mind, last year when I represented
    Nevada in the House of Representatives, I joined my Nevada
    colleagues in sending a letter to then DHS Secretary Nielsen
    about changing the UASI funding formula.
        I was pleased that one of the results of the letter is that
    FEMA incorporated visitor and special event data into its risk
    assessment profile, which determines the aid received.
        Will you consider making changes to the risk assessment
    formula permanent so that visitor and special event data
    continue to be considered?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, ma'am. And we are always looking at the
    formula because we want to make sure that we reflect the
    current risk, and risk is dynamic, and it changes over time. So
    we want to make sure that that grant is meeting the need when
    you need it. Like you said, we added different criteria to the
    grant.
        Also, this year we are going to add another criteria to the
    grant. We are going to put back in chemical facilities as a
    weighted element of the formula.
        So we are always looking at it. That grant is ultimately
    approved and has eyes on from the DHS Secretary. We have to go
    brief him or her----
        Senator Rosen. Right.
        Mr. Gaynor [continuing]. About how that all falls out. So
    it gets the highest scrutiny to make sure that it is fair and
    it is consistent.
        Senator Rosen. I want to ask about potentially one more
    change because I want to talk to you about disaggregating the
    qualifying assets.
        Right now, the Las Vegas Strip is clustered. It is
    considered one asset, even though there are more than 35 hotels
    along the strip. Twenty of the 30 largest hotels in the world
    are in the Las Vegas Valley, and a single property in Las Vegas
    at any one time can have over 70,000 employees and tourists.
    But, DHS clusters, all of these properties as one entity, and
    counts them as only one single asset for the formula.
        So, again, can you commit to coming to my office to talking
    about how we can de-aggregate this and look at our critical
    assets in a different way? We are not just one entity in the
    Las Vegas Boulevard, and the McCarran Airport, if you have been
    to Las Vegas, it sits right at the end of some of our largest
    hotels.
        Mr. Gaynor. I will absolutely commit to meeting with you
    and your staff. I will have all my grant experts that
    specialize in this and formula. We will come over, and we will
    hear you out.
        Senator Rosen. I will come take them on a tour up and down.
        Mr. Gaynor. They would love that.
        Senator Rosen. They can see that.
        I want to switch in my brief time left over to something
    that happens a little bit more in northern Nevada, which is
    wildfire. Of course, when we questioned the previous nominee,
    we talked about this a little bit.
        So, in August 2018, the South Sugarloaf fire scorched over
    230,000 acres in northeastern Nevada. It prompted the
    evacuation of about 300 people. It threatened infrastructure,
    State Route 225, multiple power lines, cell towers, radio
    towers. It destroyed public and private lands. It affected our
    ranchers, our recreation, and our wildlife.
        So despite this devastation and despite my Nevada
    colleagues in the State fighting for funding, FEMA denied the
    State of Nevada's request for a Fire Management Assistant Grant
    (FMAG) because the fire did not threaten such destruction that
    would constitute a major disaster.
        So, again, we have to look at the current criteria that you
    use, it might need to be reevaluated, as we have more and more
    critical wildfires to evaluate applications and grants that
    makes it so difficult for our rural communities not just in
    Nevada--we all have them--that they receive funding, whether it
    is flooding, as we previously talked about, or wildfires.
        In rural areas, they do not have structures to destroy, but
    the land is what people live off of. So it is difficult to
    qualify.
        So can we talk about what you might think about helping our
    rural communities in flooding and wildfires?
        Mr. Gaynor. Absolutely, ma'am.
        Just a little bit on the purpose of Fire Management
    Assistant Grants, these are grants that we give to jurisdiction
    that have fires, and the purpose of it is really to make sure
    that the local or the State has enough capacity to deal with
    the fire, so it does not turn into a major disaster.
        When we consider what qualify--and I am not speaking
    exactly about your----
        Senator Rosen. No, I understand. Yes.
        Mr. Gaynor. But just generally, we look at what economic
    impact will it have. Will the impact from a fire create an
    economic impact that will result in a large federally declared
    disaster? That is generally one of the criteria we look at, but
    I would be happy to discuss----
        Senator Rosen. We can talk about scale, so it is not all or
    nothing. Maybe there are scales or things that we can put in
    there. I know some of my friends in every other State with
    rural communities would appreciate it too.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, ma'am.
        Senator Rosen. Thank you.
        I yield back.
        Chairman Johnson. Senator Lankford.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD

        Senator Lankford. It is good to see you again. We have had
    the opportunity to be able to visit multiple times. Obviously,
    you have been around this Committee several times. In your
    earlier role, you visited my office several times. We would
    talk about different FEMA issues.
        In Oklahoma, I appreciate your engagement----
        Mr. Gaynor. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Lankford [continuing]. And your work on detail as
    you go through the process.
        You and I have spoken about the by-out process, and this
    goes back to mitigation. You have been a big advocate for to
    say if we are looking in advance of a disaster, that is a lot
    cheaper to be able to do it there than it is after the disaster
    to do debris cleanup.
        We have an issue with the buy-out, in the buy-out process,
    just length of time becomes the driving force. It is not
    uncommon for it to take 2 years or more to be able to go
    through a buy-out. This is a home that has been through
    disaster probably twice or more. That the State and local
    authorities step in and say, ``We want to use our mitigation
    dollars to help clear some of these properties out, so we are
    not perpetually dealing with folks in a flood plain or another
    major disaster area that we expect will happen again in this
    same area.
        What can we do to shorten the decision time for buy-outs
    and for those mitigation dollars? We have a 12-month lock-in at
    this point. Could we do a 3-month lock-in, a 6-month lock-in, a
    9-month? Should there be some variables there, ways for States
    to get involved in this earlier? Because this is shared funding
    between the Federal Government and local communities on those
    buy-outs. What are creative ideas we can have to be able to
    help shorten that time period?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        And we talked about this in your office, and I promised you
    that I would get you some of the best practice from around the
    country to kind of shorten that timeline.
        Again, if I go back to my local and State emergency
    management days and face these same kind of things, buy-outs,
    it never moves fast enough.
        Senator Lankford. Right.
        Mr. Gaynor. I grant----
        Senator Lankford. Flood insurance is better by far and
    faster by far to be able to do it that way.
        Mr. Gaynor. These things are complicated because it is just
    not FEMA. It is the State. It is the State environmental
    management. It is local zoning codes, building codes, local
    officials that have a say in it, the Environmental Protection
    Agency (EPA). All those people are involved in getting the
    stamp of approval on these kinds of things.
        I will commit to you that I will follow up. I will get you
    best practice on how we can shrink that time because it is
    never fast enough if you are not in your home as a disaster
    survivor.
        Senator Lankford. Yes. As you know from working on local
    communities that you have done in the past, if you have been
    through a major flood, which in the north as part of our State,
    they have been recently through a major flooding event, and
    they are told, ``OK. We are looking at buy-out, but it is a
    year before we can make the decision, and then there are
    several processes that happen after that year.'' And you are
    trying o figure out, ``Am I going to live in a hotel for a
    year? Am I going to live with my cousin for a year? What am I
    going to do at some point to be able to try to manage this for
    a year?'' And even if it is a year into it, now the decision is
    not really made. It may be 2 or 3 years before the decision is
    actually made.
        At that point, people start rebuilding. We pay individual
    assistance to be able to help folks rebuild and then eventually
    buy it out and lose money twice on it.
        That is still cheaper than having a perpetual flood event,
    but if there is a way the Federal taxpayer can save money and
    the individual can get on with their lives, that improves
    everything. So I appreciate that engagement.
        Let me ask you a little bit about some of the mitigation
    still, which you have been such a great advocate for. There are
    several rural communities in my State that they have chosen not
    to do the mitigation plans, which means individuals within
    those communities cannot get flood insurance. What would you
    say to local communities about doing mitigation plans? Because
    some of them say it is too much paperwork, not going to go
    through this, do not have the manpower to be able to do it. But
    then individuals in the community that want to get flood
    insurance cannot get it.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        I would encourage every local county that does not have a
    mitigation plan to get one. Again, speaking as my time as a
    local and State emergency manager, I think it is the
    responsibility of the local government to have one.
        We can provide through the regions, the 10 regions around
    the country and headquarters, technical assistance to help
    locals build a plan. The plan exists in other places, and so it
    is not something you have to build from scratch. Lots of help
    is out there.
        But it really is, I think, the obligation, and again, I go
    back to locally executed, State-managed, federally supported.
    You have an obligation to make your local community as ready as
    it can be and ready for the next disaster.
        Senator Lankford. Right.
        Mr. Gaynor. So I would put the onus back on the local.
    Having been one, I know it is hard. The bandwidth is small.
    Resources are slight, but it really is, I think, you have to do
    your due diligence to get it done.
        Senator Lankford. Would you grab a couple of emergency
    management folks around the State? Get them to ask some of
    their locals why they have not filled out the paperwork and why
    they have not done it and just to see if there is something
    that could ben simplified in the process----
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        Senator Lankford [continuing]. So that they go through
    that, so again, encourage people to be able to buy flood
    insurance. It helps for more folks to be able to have it, but
    if the locals find the paperwork onerous or the process
    onerous, then they do not do it. Then it just trickles down and
    becomes a more and more complicated issue. So maybe it is
    something that can be fixed. I am not going to tell you I have
    the idea on that, but I will bet a couple of folks in emergency
    management from around the Country could say, ``We could do
    this better if''----
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        I think between States and the Federal Government,
    technical assistance is available on many different things, to
    include this.
        Senator Lankford. Right.
        I appreciate it. We have also had a conversation about
    houses of worship.
        Mr. Gaynor. Sure.
        Senator Lankford. You go back a couple years ago. FEMA
    excluded all houses of worship of all type, saying they are not
    eligible. FEMA has now redefined that, quite frankly, coming in
    line with the U.S. Constitution, which is a good thing to be
    able to come inline with and to be able to say OK. Houses of
    worship are just like every other facility in every other
    community. You cannot say to a library and a museum that you
    are eligible, and if you are a house of worship, I am sorry
    that you are not. They are a community organization, just like
    the museum and the library is, so treating all entities the
    same.
        I just want to tell you I would just appreciate it not to
    discriminate on a place because they actually do worship there
    and other places they just meet as a community there. So that
    is a fair way to be able to do that.
        You brought me some recent statistics on the engagement,
    and I appreciate that, and we will continue to be able to
    follow up in every way that we can just to be able to make sure
    that continues to be just treated the same, no matter what that
    building is.
        Mr. Gaynor. And that is our goal, sir. I mean just part of
    the way we do business.
        Senator Lankford. Right, it is. I appreciate that very
    much. Thanks for stepping up in the leadership and for
    continuing to take the reins.
        Mr. Gaynor. Thank you for your support. Thank you, sir.
        Chairman Johnson. Senator Romney.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROMNEY

        Senator Romney. Mr. Gaynor, thank you for being willing to
    take on what is often a thankless task, but it is often a
    target for blame, a challenge.
        Do I detect a New England background in her heritage?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir. Rhode Island. You may be familiar
    with that small county.
        Senator Romney. Yes. It is a southern county of Boston, as
    I recall.
        Mr. Gaynor. Something like that, yes, sir. [Laughter.]
        But we are all Patriots fans, though, sir.
        Senator Romney. That is exactly right.
        Thank you. I presume that FEMA does get involved in helping
    various institutions determine how they can reduce the
    probability of disasters occurring, and I am thinking in
    particular of wildfires.
        My colleague from Nevada, who is about to escape my
    question here, Senator Rosen and I have spoken about the
    concerns of wildfires. There are some of us who are concerned
    that we do not have anywhere near enough equipment to put out
    wildfires before they become major conflagrations. Do you get
    involved in providing counsel to other agencies of the Federal
    Government, such as the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and so
    forth or the Forestry folks to take action that would reduce
    the risk of wildfires running completely out of control?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir. I think we do it on multiple paths. I
    think our greatest focus of effort is with our State emergency
    management partners and to either build capacity or improve
    capacity.
        If you look at the State of California, they have access to
    preparedness grants, whether it is a Homeland Security grant,
    UASI grant. They have a significant investment over time, with
    appropriate funds also. They have about 2,500 firefighting
    pieces of apparatus that they have invested in and made sure
    that it is spread across the State to respond to those
    disasters.
        I will go back and say that it is about equipment, but it
    is also about mitigation, pre-disaster mitigation.
        Senator Romney. Oh, yes.
        Mr. Gaynor. And not just wildfires, but pre-disaster
    mitigation for every hazard out there. If you invest ahead of
    time, reduce the risk to people, reduce the risk to loss of
    property. We will be better off once that disaster occurs.
    Hopefully, it will never occur, but we have to be ready for the
    worst-case scenario.
        So I think it is in everyone's interest to mitigate and to
    include wildfires.
        Senator Romney. I think there is a potential for us to
    manage our forests in a much more effective way to reduce the
    risk of major wildfires, and that will be something that you
    could have some input in to the various agencies that have
    responsibility for our forests and our public lands.
        You also have responsibility for flood insurance. Why do we
    have Federal flood insurance as opposed to having private
    insurance companies provide for flood insurance?
        Mr. Gaynor. I think, historically, sir, that the Congress
    approved the flood insurance program over 50 years ago, and
    this is the world in which we live today.
        When I came to FEMA, I did not realize I owned an insurance
    program. I own the largest single-peril insurance of flood in
    the country. Now, there is some providers that provide flood
    insurance on their own but not really enough.
        To go back to my previous statements, flood insurance
    really is the best offense. We need to make sure that it is
    affordable, that it reflects accurate risk, and that it is
    building specific. We are working on updating that through our
    Risk Rating 2.0. We are going to take a pause because we have a
    little more work to do, a little more due diligence, and
    understanding the rates to make sure the rates are right that
    reflect risk. We need to do it for all 50 States.
        We need to do more analysis on risk for levees. We are not
    just there yet.
        And I think the biggest thing we have to do is make sure we
    raise awareness about why flood insurance is so important and
    why homeowners should make sure they have flood insurance if
    they have that flood risk.
        Like I said before, 98 percent of the counties in America
    have flooded. It is just a matter of time before your home gets
    flooded, and insurance is the best defense.
        Senator Romney. I applaud your willingness to take a very
    close look at creating accurate risk assessments and
    determining the premiums for flood insurance, and I do believe,
    in many cases, that the people are able to rely on FEMA to
    provide for them, even if they do not have flood insurance. If,
    in fact, you do not need to get flood insurance and FEMA is
    going to come in and provide funding for you to rebuild,
    whether or not you have the insurance, why, it creates a
    disincentive to actually purchase that insurance.
        I hope that we apply, if you will, private-sector thinking
    to what is a public-sector program, flood insurance, in such a
    way that we actuarially are pricing flood insurance and
    responding to disasters for those people who have insurance in
    a different way than for those that do not.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        I will just share we actually moved about $2.3 billion of
    our liability to reinsurance. We have been doing about a
    billion dollars a year. We think that that has been very
    successful. We are very well looked at by the commercial
    insurance business, and we will continue to do that. If we can
    share some of that risk, some of that liability with the
    private sector, it is better for the taxpayer.
        Senator Romney. Yes. People in my State are concerned, in
    Utah are concerned about, in many cases, outdated mapping of
    the price associated with their flood insurance, and in some
    cases, the flood maps are as old as 20 years old. During that
    time, the cities or towns have taken steps to make it far less
    likely that a flood might occur.
        Is it possible for us to update these maps on a more timely
    basis? Is there an effort underway, or can you make sure that
    there is an effort underway to update the mapping of risk, so
    that premium rates can be more fair and reasonable?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        So we update 20 percent of the catalog every year, and we
    have 5 years before we return to the next--that we start over
    again. So every 5 years, we will update the maps that need
    updating. So we are doing that today. Congress provided
    significant funding to make sure we keep up with that. It has
    been very successful.
        I think part of it in the Risk Rating 2.0 update is really
    to look how we use maps. Right now, between the flood zone
    lines, if you have ever seen some of those maps, it is a steep
    drop-off that really does not reflect a graduate risk as you
    look at the entire flood zone.
        In some cases, you may be right on the coast, and you may
    be underpaying your premium, where somebody behind you a couple
    blocks is paying more. We want to make sure that is fair and is
    reflective of distance from the coast, the type of building
    that you are in, the cost that it is going to take to put that
    building back together, should it be flooded. All those
    factors, we are looking into to make sure that maps reflect
    risk and that risk reflects your premium.
        Senator Romney. Thank you.
        Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Senator Romney.
        Mr. Gaynor, you have made a lot of pretty interesting
    statements. You said FEMA does not make you whole. I am not
    sure that is true.
        I think one of the problems--and Senator Romney is really
    talking about the moral hazard of how we approach these things,
    but we have these major disasters. America is a very
    compassionate country, and then Congress just appropriates tens
    of billions of dollars, not just for the 1 year but 5 years out
    in the future. We do not have the information on this, and so
    that signals to just about everybody that if we have a major
    disaster, the Federal Government will come in, whether we have
    the money or not. We will just print the money, and we will try
    and make those communities as whole as possible. Is that part
    of the issue here?
        Mr. Gaynor. Well, again, sir, I think it goes back to
    shared responsibility.
        If you just look at Stafford Act authorities--and I am just
    talking general terms. If a State gets a major disaster
    declaration, it is a shared, 75 percent Federal, 25 percent
    State. So you have a stake in the game in that disaster.
        Now, is that the right balance? I think we could probably
    debate that, but it is a shared responsibility.
        Chairman Johnson. In theory, it is supposed to be 75
    percent, but is that actually what happens?
        Mr. Gaynor. The majority of times, it is, sir. In some
    cases, depending on factors, it can go up as high as 100
    percent. I am sure you are aware of those, 90-10. But for the
    most part, it is 75-25.
        Chairman Johnson. Well, that is the problem. When it is
    such major and you have so much compassion, it is 100 percent.
    Everybody kind of expects, well, something really bad happens,
    Federal Government, come bail us out.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        Chairman Johnson. You talked about flood insurance. It is
    not priced properly. It is certainly not priced based on the
    risk to a particular dwelling or property based on hurricanes
    or flood. So those individuals not in hurricanes, in States not
    in hurricane zones or in flood plains, basically, through tax
    dollars are subsidizing that moral hazard, correct?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir. We have to do work on it to make sure
    that it is affordability and it is fair.
        Chairman Johnson. I think we need to speak very honestly
    about this. We need to get the data behind it, and we have to
    come up with a program where we stop subsidizing this and we
    stop creating this moral hazard. That is the only way we are
    going to start really doing true mitigation here.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        Chairman Johnson. You talked about the FMAGs. You started
    talking a little bit about fire. I am no expert at all, but I
    have to admit I keep looking at these wildfires in California.
    I ask the question. I mean, are they removing the fuel? Is
    there no way to create firebreaks? I mean, to what extent has
    California done that? How much further do they need to go?
        Mr. Gaynor. So I will first say, sir, again, pre-disaster
    mitigation, whether it is wildfires or it is another hazard is
    really in our best interest.
        I have a pretty close relationship with the State Director,
    Mark Ghilarducci, and have had several conversations with
    Governor Gavin Newsom, especially this year with wildfires.
    California has done a pretty respectable job about trying to
    mitigate, and again, I think they are upholding our theme of
    locally executed, State-managed, and federally supported.
        Chairman Johnson. They do fund a lot.
        Mr. Gaynor. They do. Almost $400 million last year to
    reduce the wildfire risk. They have a new California Fire Plan
    that looks at building codes and building materials and tries
    to reduce risk to life and property. Again, this is a shared
    responsibility.
        Chairman Johnson. I mean, that is when a fire is raging
    over a house. What about preventing the fires to spread as much
    as they do?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir. Fires start in many different ways. I
    am sure that some are preventable. So if you think about power
    companies and those kind of things that are started, I am sure
    there is more you can do to do cutbacks from power lines. In
    some cases, it is Mother Nature that creates these fires.
        But, again, I go back to investment in pre-disaster
    dollars. What can you do to reduce that risk ahead of time,
    knowing that it is going to happen? I think really whether it
    is a wildfire or it is flooding or hurricanes, we just need to
    do a better job in pre-disaster mitigation. That investment,
    6:1 payout at the end. It is really in our best interest.
        Chairman Johnson. But I have been looking at the map and
    going, ``Here is the real vulnerable zones. We are going to
    remove fuel. We are going to create much larger firebreaks, so
    these fires cannot jump into residential communities.'' Again,
    I am not from California. It is horrific, and I have nothing
    but sympathy for those individuals. But are they doing that
    basic mitigation effort?
        Mr. Gaynor. I am not a wildfire expert either, sir. I would
    be happy to look into some of the details about what they have
    done and what they are doing and what they are planning to do.
    I would be happy to research that information and meet with you
    and your staff. I would be happy to do that.
        Chairman Johnson. I would like to know that because every
    year, you have the same problem and just going what more can
    they do.
        Mr. Gaynor. OK.
        Chairman Johnson. I want to turn attention in terms of
    FEMA's key role in terms of recovery.
        We had a few years ago the blue ribbon study panel on
    biodefense, and that recommendation to that panel first of all,
    somebody has to be in charge. If something were to happen,
    whether it is a biochemical weapon attack--but the same could
    be said of a kinetic attack on our power grid or
    Electromagnetic (EMP) or Geomagnetic Disturbance (GMD).
        I think when we have these hearings, when I talk to Federal
    officials, when it comes to recovery, people pretty much point
    to FEMA. Well, it is going to be FEMA leading this.
        First of all, are you aware of that? Are you ready for it,
    and who in your mind would you be reporting to in that type of
    situation? Let us say it is a bio-attack.
        Mr. Gaynor. So just in recovery, sir, in general, I think
    you are right. I think most people point at FEMA that we are
    going to come to the rescue, and we are going to manage the
    entire recovery.
        We are trying to change that dynamic today, making sure
    that locals and States invest in the things that are important
    to them.
        I look back at my time as a local and State emergency
    manager. The success and response is fantastic, but that
    response is short.
        I think true success in emergency management program in a
    State is recovery. If you are successful in recovery, you are
    successful as an emergency manager.
        So everyone should have a State recovery plan. They should
    have pre-disaster contracts. They should do all those things,
    do their due diligence, to make sure they are ready should a
    disaster happen because it is not a matter of if. It is just a
    matter of when.
        The question on bio, I would have to go refer to legal
    authorities on that.
        Chairman Johnson. Again, it is not really a specific
    threat. It is really when something would really shut things
    down. We would just have a major disaster, whether it is
    hurricane, fire, whether it is shutting down the electrical
    grid, whatever.
        Again, I continue to have a concern because we have heard
    it repeatedly that we need somebody in charge. Again, it always
    seems to fall--``Well, it is going to be FEMA that is going to
    help recover.'' So one of the questions I want to ask you is
    you have been there a year now. Administrator Long, birth by
    fire, within days, weeks, all of a sudden, he had this just
    unprecedented level of disaster on hurricane and wildfire.
        You fortunately did not face that kind of level of
    disaster. What is your annual cycle as Administrator of FEMA?
    Obviously, you have hurricane season. You have fire season. You
    are going to be totally focused on that. Do you have time to
    kind of step back when you are not dealing with these huge
    disasters to plan, to mitigate?
        Senator Lankford was talking about localities that do not
    do mitigation plans, so their citizens do not qualify for flood
    insurance. Do you have the bandwidth and the time to actually
    try and manage so you have some FEMA help for those communities
    that do not have mitigation plans? Kind of map it out. Here are
    the communities that do not. These are the people that do not
    have flood insurance as a result. Let us proactively go help
    those communities or those regions.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir. If you go back to 2017 and 2018,
    really historic disaster seasons and really stretched FEMA and
    some of our partners to deliver those disaster services to
    disaster survivors. That did stretch us.
        So there is an ebb and flow to a season, so from hurricane
    season to flooding to wildfire, and every day is earthquake
    season. So we have to be prepared for that.
        Set aside another 2017, I think we have enough bandwidth to
    do all those things you were talking about. We are doing them
    today. We will do them tomorrow. Should we have a big season?
    We will have to sideline some of that, but I think those are
    anomalies.
        Chairman Johnson. So if you are in between disasters and
    just kind of sitting there almost twiddling your thumbs, what
    is the first thing you are going to pick up that you have kind
    of been putting off to the side because you have not had time?
        Mr. Gaynor. So, sir, we are never twiddling our thumbs.
    [Laughter.]
        Chairman Johnson. I did not think you were, but let us
    pretend.
        Mr. Gaynor. From my first day at FEMA, it is breathtaking
    about all the things that we are responsible for. The obvious
    things, disaster, all kinds, all shapes, from American Samoa to
    U.S. Virgin Islands, 9,300 miles that we are responsible for.
        Flood insurance. I did not know I own that insurance
    company. Continuity of Government. Not many people know I own
    Continuity of Government. Preparedness programs. And the list
    goes on and on and on about the things that we do that are not
    disaster-related.
        I think one of the things that I have had a revelation
    about is that much of my time is really not disaster, managing
    the act of disaster. It is all those other things that we have
    to do. People doing all those kinds of things are the things
    that we do every day.
        We have had a really kind hurricane season this year. It
    gives us more bandwidth to accomplish those things. It is about
    balancing priorities, and we try to achieve that every day.
        Chairman Johnson. So the answer is all of the above, which
    is again one of the reasons I think you have seen us
    consistently thank you and your family.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, sir.
        Chairman Johnson. This is a full-time responsibility and
    probably very thankless. A lot of blame if it is not perfect.
    So, again, we truly do appreciate your service.
        Mr. Gaynor. Thank you, sir.
        Chairman Johnson. Senator Sinema.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SINEMA

        Senator Sinema. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Senator
    Hassan, and thank you to our witness for being here.
        The Phoenix region is one of the fastest growing in the
    Nation, and the Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale Metropolitan
    Statistical Area (MSA), comprises just under 6 million people,
    and that is made up of residents, commuters, and daily
    visitors.
        So our Phoenix first responders depend on the UASI to keep
    Arizona safe. The UASI program assists high-density and high-
    threat Metropolitan Areas to prevent, mitigate, respond to, and
    recover from acts of terrorism.
        But the program, we believe, is missing a key metric for
    determining funding levels, and that is proximity to an
    international border.
        Our UASI district is just 30 miles away from the United
    States-Mexico border, yet only visits who enter the Country
    through Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport are measured
    for the threat assessment. We believe it is vitally important
    to expand the UASI metrics to include proximity to the border.
        So my question for you is, if confirmed, would you review
    the UASI and work to include proximity to a high-traffic border
    when measuring relative risk for funding allocations?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, ma'am. And as I stated before, a similar
    question, we are always analyzing risk because risk is dynamic.
    The threat changes over time. Many of these grants are post 9/
    11 grants, and some of those threats have changed over time. So
    we want to make sure that the grants that we have today reflect
    risk, and through some of those formulas, we try to balance all
    that.
        So I will be happy to send my grants experts and my formula
    experts to kind of see what we can do to assist in making it
    fairer.
        However, I need to be fair to the entire field of
    applicants when it comes to UASI. You would be surprised that
    even small changes in threat, risk, vulnerability change the
    order in some cases. Your score may not have changed at all,
    but somebody above you has changed and moved you out because
    the formula works that way.
        But I would be happy to have a conversation with you and
    your staff on grant formula.
        Senator Sinema. Thank you.
        In particular, as you have seen in recent events,
    individuals who are living in Arizona near the border see
    increased threats from massacres from dangerous activity and,
    of course, continuing gang and drug activity. So this is very
    concerning for us in Arizona.
        Mr. Gaynor. Absolutely.
        Senator Sinema. Thank you.
        There also remains concerns in Arizona regarding the FEMA
    grant program that provided assistance to non-governmental
    organizations (NGO's) that helped migrants who are released
    into communities. In Arizona, our NGO's stepped up and played a
    critical role in helping manage the crisis at our borders this
    past spring, but my office has heard concerns that the program
    rules and application process were confusing and that they kept
    changing.
        So FEMA has invited those who have already received funds
    and those who did not to submit follow up applications as
    needed. My question for you is what steps is FEMA taking to
    make sure that the NGO community understands the program and
    understands the rules, and then, of course, looking forward,
    what lessons can FEMA take from the tough rollout of the
    program to improve the grant programs in the future?
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, ma'am. So this is the $30 million
    supplemental, I think, to help the border crisis. About $8
    million is on the street right now, and we are going to reopen
    the grant period in January, this coming January.
        This week, my FEMA team that runs this program is actually
    out in New Mexico and Texas doing a listening tour, doing
    exactly what you are asking to have happen in your State to
    help with documentation, help with the application, kind of
    give them technical assistance, so that they can be eligible to
    apply.
        I think that was one of the difficulties when we rolled
    this out.
        Senator Sinema. That is right.
        Mr. Gaynor. And we are on the street today trying to change
    that direction, change that dynamic, so more can apply because
    there is still money on the table.
        Senator Sinema. I would invite him to come visit us in
    Arizona, and my office would be happy to give you a list, the
    NGO's, both those that did apply and received money, those who
    applied and did not receive money, but also those who stepped
    up to provide assistance without any interaction with FEMA.
    There are a number of organizations that did a yeoman's amount
    of work without ever having any kind of formal interaction with
    the Federal Government.
        Of course, as you have noted, we anticipate, unfortunately,
    that there will be another surge of individuals who come in the
    spring because this crisis has not yet been resolved.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, ma'am. I will follow up with you and your
    staff----
        Senator Sinema. Thank you.
        Mr. Gaynor [continuing]. And we will try to get that team
    out to Arizona.
        Senator Sinema. Thank you.
        My last question for you is about wildfires in Arizona. As
    you know, they pose a significant risk, and this year, over
    372,623 acres have burned as a result of wildfires. That is
    just in my State.
        So our fire companies depend on grants from FEMA to make
    sure that they have the tools they need to protect both life
    and property.
        The President's Fiscal Year (FY) 2020 budget proposed
    sweeping cuts to these grants, and that is concerning to us
    because these are grants that help our firefighters do their
    job. So my question is how you and the Department will ensure
    that Arizona's first responders have the resources they need to
    respond to wildfires and keep Arizona safe.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, ma'am. Annually, we put out about $2.3
    billion in preparedness grants, a whole host of different
    programs, UASI, Emergency Management Performance Grant Program
    (EMPG), Staffing for Adequate Fire Emergency and Response
    (SAFER) Grants to fire, and part of my challenge as the
    Administrator is some of these grants have turned into
    entitlement grants. Sustainability and maintenance really
    snuffs out the ability to do innovation and to follow emerging
    threats. So we are trying to right-size grants so they keep up
    with the threat, the risk that is appropriate for your
    jurisdiction.
        It is one of our priorities to make sure that we deliver
    that capability through grants to locals because if you build
    capability at the local level, you build State capability. If
    you build State capability, you build national capability. So
    we are committed to make sure that firefighters have all the
    support that we can give them through these grants.
        Senator Sinema. I appreciate that.
        As you know, due to a number of factors, weather patterns,
    drought, and of course, not having the ability or the financial
    support to provide low-level clearance for forests has actually
    increased the risk of fire in places like Arizona and other
    parts of the Southwest. So this is as growing concern for our
    communities.
        As you know, a number of years ago, Arizona actually
    suffered the loss of 19 firefighters from the Yarnell fire.
    That is something we want to make sure never happens again in
    my State or in any other State in this country.
        Mr. Gaynor. Yes, ma'am.
        Senator Sinema. So I look forward to working with you on
    that, and thank you again for being here.
        Mr. Gaynor. Thank you.
        Senator Sinema. Mr. Chairman, my time has expired. I want
    to thank you for allowing me to participate this morning.
        Chairman Johnson. I appreciate you coming. Senator Hassan.
        Senator Hassan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        I just had a quick comment and a question because there has
    been a lot of discussion about the shared responsibility of
    local, localities, counties, States, and the Federal Government
    when it comes to natural disaster response.
        We have had a good discussion about the importance of
    mitigation and the importance of everybody investing in
    mitigation regardless of level of government.
        This is just a comment. I do not expect you to respond to
    it, Mr. Gaynor. As a country, one of the things we need to do
    to mitigate our risk is to address climate change. Much of the
    extreme weather we are seeing is a result of climate change,
    and we can have whatever debate we want to have about what
    causes climate change, but the science is very clear and the
    recommendations are very clear about what we could be doing to
    address climate change as a Nation.
        Luckily, some of our cities and States continue to do the
    work that right now the Federal Government is not doing, in my
    view, as much as it should have, but I just want to make that
    note because at a certain point, asking localities, small towns
    in New Hampshire, to keep reinvesting in new infrastructure, to
    keep up with the extremity of the weather they are seeing is
    just not a fair ask.
        The second thing--and this is a question--we have talked
    about moral hazards and perceptions perhaps that sometimes
    individuals or certain localities are expecting the Federal
    Government to come and help them and do all of the repair and
    recovery.
        As a former Governor, that has not been my experience. In
    fact, at times, my experience has been the people said, ``We
    qualify for FEMA assistance here, but it is a lot of paperwork.
    We are just going to do it ourselves.''
        But the bigger point is this. The reason we have a Federal
    response capacity is that sometimes these disasters are so big
    that they wipe out every part of local infrastructure. So you
    do not have--if your first responders do not have homes because
    the storm just came through and wiped them out--I know a lot of
    heroic first responders who come to work anyway while their
    families are figuring out where they are going to go.
        But have you seen, Mr. Gaynor, in your experience--and I am
    thinking of Puerto Rico here. Their capacity to mount a
    response was deeply impacted by the severity of hurricane
    Maria. So there are times that the Federal Government really
    does need to come in and be the major responder, and I just am
    wondering if you see that from time to time.
        Mr. Gaynor. I think being from the smallest State in the
    Union, I feel your pain----
        Senator Hassan. Yes.
        Mr. Gaynor [continuing]. Because the capacity of Rhode
    Island compared to the capacity of Texas is much different.
        Senator Hassan. Right.
        Mr. Gaynor. So what is a small disaster in Texas may be a
    major disaster in Rhode Island or Delaware. So I am
    particularly sensitive to that.
        I want to be the honest broker with my background as a
    local and State and now acting Federal FEMA Administrator about
    we all have a role to play here, and you have to do what you
    can do within your locality to keep your community safe.
        If something really bad happens, we will be there. There is
    no doubt about it, but we need to be more honest about what we
    expected, all levels, so we have a truly prepared and resilient
    Nation.
        Senator Hassan. I think that is exactly the right approach.
    It is a balanced approach, but just I wanted to go on the
    record with sometimes, on matter how well a locality or a State
    has prepared, Mother Nature has a different idea.
        Mr. Gaynor. Absolutely.
        Senator Hassan. Thank you.
        Chairman Johnson. Thanks, Senator Hassan.
        As somebody who obviously raised that issue of moral
    hazards, let me also say that--because I talked about how
    compassionate this Country is, but we also see in--I do not
    care what disaster we are talking about, what tragedy we are
    talking about. We just see heroes at a local level rise to the
    occasion, and it just kind of reaffirms your faith in our
    fellow citizen. So, I mean, that is, across the board, we see
    that.
        I mentioned in my opening comments too, in 2017, FEMA
    deployed other Federal agencies as part of the Surge Capacity
    Force for the first time ever, and the stats on that, 4,063
    members deployed from 28 different agencies, 8 DHS components,
    and they worked 24/7 during that unprecedented hurricane
    season. Again, I saw the men and women.
        Did you want to comment on that, Mr. Gaynor?
        Mr. Gaynor. Sir, thank you. So we have ``emergency'' in our
    title. So I think people just expect that we are the single
    responders to these emergencies or disasters. It is actually a
    whole-of-government response.
        We have many partners that have unique capabilities that we
    rely on that we just do not have. So whether it is DOD or the
    Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) or any of our
    Federal partners, we are all together, and it is unique, I
    think, for government, so whether local or State, whether you
    are at the local emergency operations center or the State
    emergency operations center or the National Response
    Coordination Center right down the street. This is where all of
    government comes together to help disasters and disaster
    survivors get over the hard spot and get them on the road to
    recovery. It is absolutely unique to see, and I think we do a
    pretty good job at it.
        Chairman Johnson. It is actually a whole Nation response.
        We had caravans coming from all over the Nation taking
    building materials, roofers, people bringing food stuffs and
    other needed items. You just pick your disaster you want to
    talk about. It is really a whole Nation response. That is what
    is so extraordinary about this country.
        So, again, Mr. Gaynor, your family, thank you for your
    service. From my standpoint, I am very confident and want to
    support your nomination. I hope this passes unanimously through
    the Senate as quickly as possible.
        The nominee has made financial disclosures and provided
    responses to biographical and prehearing questions submitted by
    the Committee. Without objection, this information will be made
    a part of the hearing record,\1\ with the exception of the
    financial data which are on file and available for public
    inspection in the Committee offices.
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        \1\ The information for Mr. Gaynor appears in the Appendix on page
    41.
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        The hearing record will remain open until 12 p.m.,
    tomorrow, November 15th, for the submission of statements and
    questions for the record.
        This hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 11:03 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

                                A P P E N D I X

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