    [Senate Hearing 116-308]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 116-308

                              PENDING LEGISLATION

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                                 NATIONAL PARKS

                                     OF THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                       on

                                S. 225      S. 774
                                S. 298      S. 849
                                S. 327      S. 1152
                                S. 389      S. 1582
                                S. 641      S. 1705

                                   __________

                                 JUNE 19, 2019

                                   __________

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                           Printed for the use of the
                   Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                ______

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
     37-817              WASHINGTON : 2020

                   COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                        LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
    JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
    MIKE LEE, Utah                       MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
    STEVE DAINES, Montana                BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
    BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
    CORY GARDNER, Colorado               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
    CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
    MARTHA McSALLY, Arizona              ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
    LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee           CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
    JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
                                     ------

                         Subcommittee on National Parks

                             STEVE DAINES, Chairman

    JOHN BARRASSO                        ANGUS S. KING, JR.
    MIKE LEE                             BERNARD SANDERS
    CORY GARDNER                         DEBBIE STABENOW
    CINDY HYDE-SMITH                     MARTIN HEINRICH
    LAMAR ALEXANDER                      MAZIE K. HIRONO
    JOHN HOEVEN

                          Brian Hughes, Staff Director
                         Kellie Donnelly, Chief Counsel
                    Michelle Lane, Professional Staff Member
                    Sarah Venuto, Democratic Staff Director
                    Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
                    David Brooks, Democratic General Counsel

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page
    Daines, Hon. Steve, Subcommittee Chairman and a U.S. Senator from
      Montana........................................................     1
    King, Jr., Hon. Angus S., Subcommittee Ranking Member and a U.S.
      Senator from Maine.............................................     4
    Hoeven, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from North Dakota..............     5

                                   WITNESSES

    Cramer, Hon. Kevin, a U.S. Senator from North Dakota.............     5
    Smith, P. Daniel, Deputy Director, National Park Service, U.S.
      Department of the Interior.....................................     7

              ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

    1882 Project Foundation, et al.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    37
    Agenda...........................................................     3
    Board of Commissioners of Otero County (New Mexico):
        Letter for the Record........................................    38
    Cramer, Hon. Kevin:
        Opening Statement............................................     5
    Daines, Hon. Steve:
        Opening Statement............................................     1
    Hoeven, Hon. John:
        Opening Statement............................................     5
    King, Jr., Hon. Angus S.:
        Opening Statement............................................     4
    League of Women Voters of Colorado:
        Letter for the Record........................................    47
    League of Women Voters of Larimer County (Colorado):
        Letter for the Record........................................    48
    National Organization for Women--North Colorado Chapter:
        Letter for the Record........................................    49
    Shaheen, Hon. Jeanne:
        Statement for the Record.....................................    50
    Smith, P. Daniel:
        Opening Statement............................................     7
        Written Testimony............................................    10
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................    35
    Vet Voice Foundation:
        Letter for the Record........................................    52
    Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States:
        Resolution No. 303 for the Record............................    54
    (The) Wilderness Society:
        Letter for the Record........................................    56
    Women's Suffrage Centennial Commission:
        Letter for the Record........................................    58

    ----------
    The text for each of the bills which were addressed in this hearing can
    be found on the committee's website at: https://www.energy.senate.gov/
    hearings/2019/6/subcommittee-on-national-parks-legislative-hearing

                              PENDING LEGISLATION

                                  ----------

                            WEDNESDAY, JUNE 19, 2019

                                   U.S. Senate,
                        Subcommittee on National Parks,
                     Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m. in
    Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Steve Daines,
    presiding.

                OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. STEVE DAINES,
                       U.S. SENATOR FROM MONTANA

        Senator Daines [presiding]. The Subcommittee will come to
    order.
        Before we get started today, I especially want to thank the
    Ranking Member, Senator King, and take a moment to talk about
    the bipartisan work we accomplished together here last
    Congress.
        During the 115th Congress, the National Parks Subcommittee
    held five legislative hearings examining nearly 90 individual
    pieces of legislation in addition to our regular oversight and
    field hearings. I mention this because a number of priorities
    for individual Senators came through the National Parks
    Subcommittee; much of our work, ultimately, came to fruition in
    the passage of Senate bill 47, the John D. Dingell, Jr.
    Conservation, Management, and Recreation Act.
        In fact, three titles in the Act, the National Parks title,
    the National Heritage Area title and several items in the
    miscellaneous title are primarily comprised of legislation
    heard in this very Subcommittee.
        It is my hope that starting today we can continue to build
    upon this great record of bipartisan success and look to some
    new items for consideration.
        We have a number of interesting items on today's agenda,
    including Senate bill 849, legislation that would allow for the
    inclusion of individuals killed in active duty on the U.S.S.
    Frank E. Evans during the Vietnam War, to have their names
    added to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall. Seventy-four men
    lost their lives on June 3rd, 1969, when the U.S.S. Frank E.
    Evans collided with the HMAS Melbourne off the coast of
    Vietnam, including Seaman Apprentice William Fields from Great
    Falls, Montana, who was inducted into the Navy just 17 days
    prior to his tragic death. I am a proud co-sponsor of this
    bill. I hope to see it move quickly and be signed into law so
    the stories of sailors like William can be told for generations
    to come.
        I would also like to mention Senate bill 1705, the Every
    Word We Utter Monument. This legislation would create a
    national monument to honor those who dedicated their life to
    the Women's Suffrage Movement. Montana has a proud tradition of
    supporting women's equality, including that of Jeanette Rankin,
    who was not only a leader in the suffragist movement, but also
    the very first woman ever elected to federal office in the
    United States and she was from Montana. Ms. Rankin was first
    elected to represent Montanans in Congress in 1916. We are
    proud of this tradition in Montana and look forward to
    celebrating the centennial of the ratification of the 19th
    amendment next August.
        The purpose of this hearing is to consider the
    Administration's views on pending legislation and allow
    Committee members an opportunity to ask questions. We will also
    include written statements and letters that have been sent to
    the Subcommittee in the official hearing record. The complete
    agenda will also be included in the official record, without
    objection.
        [The complete agenda referred to follows:]

                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                              COMMITTEE ON ENERGY
                             AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                         Subcommittee on National Parks

                        Wednesday, June 19, 2019

                                 AGENDA

       S. 225, to provide for partnerships among State and
            local governments, regional entities, and the private
            sector to preserve, conserve, and enhance the visitor
            experience at nationally significant battlefields of
            the American Revolution, War of 1812, and Civil War,
            and for other purposes (Isakson);
       S. 298, to establish the Springfield Race Riot
            National Historic Monument in the State of Illinois,
            and for other purposes (Duckworth);
       S. 327, to amend the Federal Lands Recreation
            Enhancement Act to provide for a lifetime National
            Recreation Pass for any veteran with a service-
            connected disability (Shaheen);
       S. 389, to authorize the Society of the First
            Infantry Division to make modifications to the First
            Division Monument located on Federal land in
            Presidential Park in the District of Columbia, and for
            other purposes (Moran);
       S. 641, to update the map of, and modify the maximum
            acreage available for inclusion in, the Yucca House
            National Monument (Gardner);
       S. 774, to adjust the boundary of the Santa Monica
            Mountains National Recreation Area to include the Rim
            of the Valley Corridor, and for other purposes
            (Feinstein);
       S. 849, to provide for the inclusion on the Vietnam
            Veterans Memorial Wall of the names of the lost crew
            members of the U.S.S. Frank E. Evans killed on June 3,
            1969 (Cramer);
       S. 1152, to provide for the transfer of
            administrative jurisdiction over certain parcels of
            Federal land in Arlington, Virginia, and for other
            purposes (Boozman);
       S. 1582, to establish the White Sands National Park
            in the State of New Mexico as a unit of the National
            Park System, and for other purposes (Heinrich); and
       S. 1705, to authorize the Every Word We Utter
            Monument to establish a commemorative work in the
            District of Columbia and its environs, and for other
            purposes (Bennet).
        Senator Daines. We have one witness here today, Mr. P.
    Daniel Smith, Deputy Director, National Park Service, U.S.
    Department of the Interior. Great to have you here again, Mr.
    Smith.
        I am going to turn to the Ranking Member now for his
    opening remarks.
        Senator King.

                 STATEMENT OF HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR.,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE

        Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        It is great to be back discussing these important issues
    with this Subcommittee. As you point out, we did a lot of work
    last year and were met with a lot of success, and not every
    Subcommittee of this Congress can make that statement. I really
    appreciate it because we are working together. We are working
    on a bipartisan basis to protect the national parks, and that
    is about as good a cause as I think we can find. We have a lot
    of common ground, the Chair and I, and we believe that public
    land should be promoted, protected and funded.
        Since this is our first Subcommittee hearing of this year,
    I think it is appropriate to note, as I mentioned, the success
    that we had with over 40 national park-related bills in the
    broad public lands package that was signed into law earlier
    this year.
        Yesterday, just yesterday, the full Committee held a
    hearing to look at the maintenance backlog of the National Park
    Service and other federal land management agencies. I hope we
    will be able to build on that and move the Restore Our Parks
    Act through the Committee as soon as possible.
        This morning's hearing covers many bills that address
    various national park priorities for several of our colleagues.
    It includes Senator Heinrich's bill to designate White Sands
    National Monument as a National Park, and I have a wonderful
    picture, Senator, of my kids on a snow sled going down the
    White Sands. The only bad news was they got to the bottom, and
    we were pulling sand out of their hair and ears for about a
    week.
        Senator Heinrich. I want to see the picture of you sledding
    down that.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator King. That will have to wait.
        I understand that provision is already included in the
    National Defense Authorization Act. That is efficient work. We
    get things included even before we meet.
        I further understand that the sponsors of other bills have
    Department of Defense-related issues. We are hoping to get
    those bills included in the National Defense Authorization Act
    which we will be taking up next week.
        I understand the Administration has expressed some concern
    about some of the bills, and I look forward to hearing from the
    Administration on these bills.
        My main friend, Dan Smith, is here once again. We are
    delighted to have you with us, and we are going to work on
    these issues and try to get the bills in shape so that we can
    move them through the Subcommittee.
        Mr. Chairman, I look forward to this hearing, and thank you
    to our witnesses.
        Senator Daines. Thank you, Senator King.
        I have my two Senators here who are sitting to my right
    here. Senator King and Senator Heinrich, again, thank you for
    all the efforts you put forth to get that bipartisan lands
    package moved through the U.S. Senate. As we said, it took our
    public lands to bring divided government together and let's see
    if we can do that yet again here using this Committee as an
    example to help bring this city together and get some agreement
    on a few things. Thank you.
        We actually have both North Dakota Senators here today. It
    is remarkable.
        Before Senator Cramer opens with his short statement,
    Senator Hoeven, you have your special Senator here from North
    Dakota to introduce.
        Senator Hoeven.

                    STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN HOEVEN,
                     U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH DAKOTA

        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it,
    and I appreciate both you and Senator Heinrich as our
    colleagues from Midwestern states. It is good to be here with
    you.
        I just wanted to be here to thank Senator Cramer for
    introducing the U.S.S. Frank E. Evans Act which I am co-
    sponsoring with him. He introduced it last Congress in the
    House and was able to pass it through the House through some
    very good work. I introduced it in the Senate. We did not get
    it through.
        But it is an important bill. It is one that he has worked
    hard on. It is one that I am committed to as well. I certainly
    want to make an appeal as well to the Committee to pass it in a
    timely way so we can get to the Floor and do everything we can
    to pass it. It is important. It does recognize 74 members of
    our incredible military who died during the Vietnam War and we
    believe deserve just recognition on the Vietnam War Wall
    Memorial. So again, I just want to be here to lend my support
    to my esteemed colleague and to this legislation.
        I thank you, both you and the Ranking Member from Maine,
    for giving me this time and for this Subcommittee's
    consideration of this important legislation.
        Thanks so much.
        Senator Daines. Thank you, Senator Hoeven.
        Senator Cramer.

                    STATEMENT OF HON. KEVIN CRAMER,
                     U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH DAKOTA

        Senator Cramer. Thank you, Chairman Daines and Ranking
    Member King, members of the Committee, and special thanks to
    Senator Hoeven for his attention and support.
        As you know, I'm here today to speak in favor of the bill,
    Senate bill 849, the U.S.S. Frank E. Evans Act. It's a bill, as
    Senator Hoeven said, I did introduce in the House. In fact,
    when it came to my attention, I didn't even know it would be
    difficult. And as it turns out, it wasn't. We were able to
    unanimously pass it with support from the leadership of both
    parties into the National Defense Authorization Act as a Floor
    amendment.
        But the 74 sailors that lost their lives in the Frank E.
    Evans, it refers to sailors who by a technical glitch don't
    have their names placed on the Vietnam Memorial Wall.
    Interestingly, this tragedy happened 50 years and 16 days ago,
    and it just seems like this is the year that maybe we can
    remember them properly.
        It's a bipartisan bill supported by an equal number of
    Republicans and Democrats, including both the Chairman and the
    Ranking Member of this Subcommittee and, of course, Senator
    Hoeven. Last year, I introduced it, as I said, and it
    unanimously passed in the House and it was stripped in the
    Conference Committee. But since then I've moved from the House
    to the Senate, and I'm bringing this bill with me and my
    enthusiasm for it.
        Today's hearing is a significant step, Mr. Chairman. I
    appreciate this very much, and thank both you and Ranking
    Member King for your support of the legislation.
        The Evans was a destroyer. It served multiple combat
    support tours during the Vietnam War. After one of those tours,
    it was sent to participate in a training exercise in the South
    China Sea before its scheduled return to combat. I think it's
    important to note that. During the exercise, the Evans collided
    with an Australian aircraft carrier. This accident split the
    ship in two, resulting in the death of the 74. Only one of the
    74 bodies was recovered. The rest are buried at sea.
        As you know, Mr. Chairman, for a veteran's name to be added
    to the Vietnam Memorial Wall, certain criteria must be met and
    you'll hear about them today, I'm sure. But one of the
    qualifications is that those who perish must have been in or
    directly on their way to a combat zone. Because the Evans was
    not in or directly on its way to a combat zone, the names of
    those who died are not included on the Wall even though the
    ship had previously provided gunfire support off the coast of
    Vietnam, including during the Tet Offensive. The ship was also
    set to return to combat after the exercise just as the other
    U.S. ships did, exactly. They were scheduled to and did return.
        I first learned about this injustice during a weekly radio
    town hall that I host when the son-in-law of veteran Dick
    Grant, a U.S.S. Frank E. Evans survivor, and resident of Fargo
    in North Dakota, called the show. When I heard his story, I
    looked into the issue further and found that adding names to
    the Wall is not as unprecedented as some would have us believe.
    In fact, according to the Vietnam Memorial Fund, the Wall has
    been updated to add roughly 400 names. More to the point, a
    recent, just a couple weeks ago, Washington Post story cited
    the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund Study which detailed a
    series of duplications, misspellings and miscounts along the
    Vietnam Memorial. Clearly the Wall has seen changes before and
    it needs changes again.
        Throughout the years, many U.S.S. Frank E. Evans survivors
    like Dick Grant and family members and friends of the deceased
    have worked to include the lost 74 in changes and improvements
    to the Wall. These advocates have petitioned the Department of
    Defense to add the names, but their attempts have been denied.
    This bill would change that.
        Mr. Chairman, it's inexplicable to me how bureaucrats in
    Washington could determine these sailors' ultimate sacrifice is
    unworthy of being memorialized simply because they weren't on
    the right side of an arbitrary line.
        Tom Corcoran, Jr., is the brother to Patrick Corcoran, one
    of the lost 74, and he said it best. ``They wouldn't have been
    there if it wasn't for the war. Yet, our government won't
    chisel 74 names on that piece of granite. It's an absolute
    disgrace. It's just wrong.''
        These men left home and said goodbye to their families at
    the request of our nation, and now they're buried at sea. But
    instead of honoring them by including their names on the Wall,
    we sit here arguing about it 50 years and 16 days later.
        Let's be clear, the exclusion of these veterans is a
    disservice to those who gave their lives for our country. A
    technicality is not an excuse for inaction. A previously issued
    memo is not a reason to express disapproval and an objection
    from Washington's bureaucracy should not stop us.
        Throughout the process I've heard every excuse. It's too
    hard or we have to draw a line somewhere or there isn't space.
    We're working on sending a man to Mars, but somehow, we can't
    do this.
        They're wrong, Mr. Chairman. It's not too hard. Certainly
    not as hard as not seeing finality, not seeing your loved one
    memorialized appropriately. Certainly not as difficult as going
    to war for our country. If our government is capable of this,
    they're capable of adding their names.
        I'm thoroughly persuaded that they deserve it. I hope those
    who participate in today's hearing walk away with the same
    conviction. In fact, the only opponents I've ever heard from,
    ever heard from, are the people whose job it would be to do
    this. I've never had an objection from a single constituent or
    person in the media or throughout this country, except people
    who live in this town, whose job it would be to find a way to
    do this. And I think it's time that we, as elected leaders,
    stand up and do the right thing.
        With that, I thank you for the opportunity.
        Senator Daines. Thank you, Senator Cramer.
        Are there any other Senators who would like to make opening
    statements today?
        [No response.]
        All members' statements will be added to the hearing
    record.
        We will now proceed to the witness testimony. At the end of
    the testimony, we will begin questions.
        Mr. Smith, your full written testimony will be made part of
    the official hearing record.
        Mr. Smith, you may now proceed.

     STATEMENT OF P. DANIEL SMITH, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, NATIONAL PARK
                SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

        Mr. Smith. Chairman Daines, Ranking Member King and members
    of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to present
    the Department of the Interior's views on the ten bills on
    today's agenda.
        I'd like to submit our full statements, and I'll summarize
    for the record.
        S. 225 would extend the authority for the American
    Battlefield Protection Program through Fiscal 2028 and increase
    the authorization to $20 million annually. It would allow up to
    ten percent of the funds to be used for battlefield
    interpretation and restoration which we support, but would
    recommend amending.
        S. 298 would establish the Springfield Race Riot National
    Historic Monument. The Department recognizes the historical
    significance of the site of the Springfield Race Riot of 2008;
    however, we do not support S. 298 at this time. The National
    Park Service is currently preparing a reconnaissance survey of
    the site, and when that is completed we would be happy to
    discuss some alternatives to increase public recognition at the
    site.
        S. 327 would provide for a lifetime national recreation
    pass for any veteran with a service-connected disability.
    Currently, disabled veterans are eligible for their free
    lifetime pass that is available for all disabled Americans. But
    this legislation would help ensure that there is no confusion
    about their eligibility. The Department supports the bill.
        S. 389 would authorize modifications to the First Division
    Monument located in President's Park. We do not object to this
    bill.
        S. 641 would revise the boundary of Yucca House National
    Monument and authorize the National Park Service to acquire by
    donation an adjacent 160-acre parcel of land. The Department
    supports this bill with technical amendments.
        S. 774 would expand the boundary of Santa Monica Mountains
    National Recreation Area to include an additional 191,000 acres
    in the mountainous areas that surround the valleys Northwest of
    Los Angeles. The National Park Service's 2008 Special Resource
    Study found that the addition of the expansion of this
    recreation area met the criteria for addition to the National
    Park System. The study anticipated limited federal ownership in
    the new area, as is the case within the existing unit. Even so,
    resources at this time are needed to reduce the National Park
    Service's $11.9 billion deferred maintenance backlog and
    address other critical National Park Service needs. The
    Department does not support enacting S. 774 at this time.
        S. 849 would provide for an inclusion on the Vietnam
    Veterans Memorial Wall the names of the crew members of the
    U.S.S. Frank E. Evans killed on June 3rd, 1969. While we
    appreciate the effort to recognize the servicemen and women who
    gave their lives during the Vietnam War, we would defer this
    bill to the Department of Defense who has determined that the
    names of those who perished on the U.S.S. Frank E. Evans do not
    meet the criteria for inclusion. The Defense Department has
    been responsible for determining all of the inclusion of names
    on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall since its inception, and
    we support their decision.
        S. 1152 would transfer most of Memorial Avenue along with
    some adjacent land at Arlington National Cemetery from the
    Secretary of the Interior to the Secretary of the Army. It
    would also transfer a parcel within Arlington National Cemetery
    at Arlington House, the Robert E. Lee Memorial, from the
    Secretary of the Army to the Secretary of Interior. The
    Department supports S. 1152 with an amendment.
        S. 1582 would re-designate White Sands National Monument as
    White Sands National Park. This proposed designation fits
    within our standard naming conventions for parks; however, we
    question the re-designation without also adjusting its boundary
    and putting into effect an exchange of lands with White Sands
    Missile Range. We are also concerned about the bill's special
    requirements for nominating the site to the World Heritage List
    as they would establish a unique process for this one potential
    site. We'd like to work with the Committee to develop
    amendments to address these issues.
        And finally, S. 1705 would authorize the organization named
    the Every Word We Utter Monument to establish a commemorative
    work honoring the effort to pass the 19th Amendment. We ask the
    Committee to defer action on this bill until the organization
    receives approval from the IRS of its 501(c)(3) status.
        Mr. Chairman, that completes my remarks. I look forward to
    any questions the Committee may have.
        [The prepared statements of Mr. Smith follow:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Daines. Thanks for your testimony, Mr. Smith, and
    thanks for being here again today.
        In my opening statement I mentioned Senate bill 849,
    legislation that would allow those who perished in the tragic
    accident on the U.S.S. Frank E. Evans, including Williams
    Fields, to be honored on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall.
    According to your written testimony, the National Park Service
    (NPS) would defer to the Department of Defense (DoD) on this
    matter, allowing DoD to ultimately decide if the names of these
    74 sailors belong on the Wall. Is that correct?
        Mr. Smith. That's correct, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Daines. It is also my understanding the NPS worked
    with DoD on adding names and making corrections to existing
    names to the Wall in the past. Do I have that right?
        Mr. Smith. Yes, you do, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Daines. And finally, should this legislation be
    enacted into law, what, if any, physical changes to the Vietnam
    Veterans Memorial Wall does NPS expect would be required other
    than additional engravings?
        Mr. Smith. Senator, as you know in my prior testimony, I've
    dealt with the Vietnam Veterans Memorial since we put the spade
    in the ground to build it and was there the day President
    Reagan dedicated it, and I am a Vietnam Veteran. I arrived in
    country about a week after this accident on the Evans in 1969.
        The Wall is in chronological order of how our 58,000
    Vietnam Veterans are listed on it. There will be complications
    to chronologically put the crew of the Evans into it, in block
    in the timeframe that they perished in '69, will be a major
    change because it will have to change that chronological order.
        I don't know all the details and, of course, we coordinate
    those with the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund, but this would
    require changing the various slates of granite that are there.
    And so, to add this many names has not been done before.
        The way the monument was done, we've been able to add once
    MIAs are identified or whatever, there's been space for those.
    This inclusion will be a situation that technically will be
    hard to accomplish the way the Wall currently is constructed.
        Senator Daines. Thanks for your service to our country and
    your heritage too, as a Vietnam Veteran. We appreciate it, Mr.
    Smith.
        Ranking Member King.
        Senator King. Yesterday we had some testimony about the
    Wounded Veterans Recreation Act and the concept of wounded
    veterans getting free passes to the park which everyone
    supports, including myself.
        The question that arose is if there are wounded veterans in
    the car and there are six other people, do they all get free
    entrance to the park as well, at a time when we are struggling
    to try to cover the operational and maintenance costs of the
    park? Do you know what the rule is on that?
        Mr. Smith. Senator King, I have to tell you I should know
    that answer and I haven't been a superintendent who had those
    visitors. I'm not sure it's for the whole car. I think it's for
    the veteran and maybe one person who is with him. I'll have to
    provide that for the record, and I apologize that I don't have
    that answer.
        Senator King. I would appreciate that. I think it is a
    relevant question.
        To be a little more specific, regarding the U.S.S. Frank E.
    Evans: The ship isn't qualified because it was not in the zone
    at the time of the sinking? Is that the issue? It was not in
    the right zone. It was on a training cruise. But hadn't it
    already been in combat?
        Mr. Smith. Senator, I believe you're correct. And I would
    not want to speak for the Department of Defense, but there are
    many issues on--there are many other incidents of people
    transporting to or from Vietnam that involve hundreds of names
    that, somehow, through that unbelievably difficult task that
    Defense has in their awards and casualties branch to make these
    decisions. Nobody wants to dishonor anybody's service in that
    war or any other war.
        But there were criteria set up from the beginning of this
    and this one is caught, as the Senator said, Senator Cramer
    said, it is caught in a very strange, unique situation of being
    out of the combat zone at that time. And so, it's a criteria
    that Defense has set. I would not speak to the details of it,
    that would be their responsibility.
        But I do know that ever since the memorial was dedicated in
    1982, DoD has coordinated with the Vietnam Veterans Memorial
    Fund on every name that's been added to that Wall and this is
    following that same procedure.
        So it's a tough decision, but it's one that DoD----
        Senator King. We really should hear from, on this issue,
    perhaps the Memorial Fund and Department of Defense?
        Mr. Smith. I think so, and especially from the Memorial
    Fund as they seem to be very concerned about what this would
    mean for changing the Wall as far as having to add an
    additional 74 names and then move all those plates down the
    Wall.
        Senator King. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Daines. Senator Heinrich.
        Senator Heinrich. Deputy Director, most people all over the
    world are familiar with the White Sands themselves, the Gypsum
    Dunes, but can you talk a little bit about some of the other
    values at this National Park Service unit including, maybe, the
    paleontological resources that have made quite a bit of news in
    the last year?
        Mr. Smith. Senator, yes, it's actually a very unique site.
        The size of it, first of all, 143,000 acres, covers 275
    square miles. Because of this unbelievable mineral deposit
    there, a 10,000-year history is very evident there, not only of
    flora and fauna but of even human activity. And they're very
    interestingly preserved in the way that mineral exists there.
        It's also interesting because of how various creatures have
    adapted to that environment. So it's a very unique area. And
    sometimes we hesitate when Congress wants to change a monument
    to a national park, but this one does meet all of our criteria
    in scientific, cultural and natural resources and size that
    does qualify it for National Park status. And of your 15 units
    in New Mexico, you only have one other one. So this actually is
    a very sensible approach to the unit.
        Senator Heinrich. In the time since Senator King was able
    to visit this unit, they have discovered human footprints
    placed inside the footprints of a giant ground sloth that they
    were stalking at the time from thousands of years ago. So it
    really is a pretty unique area, and we are actively working to
    make sure that the land swap that the Deputy Director
    referenced is included in the Defense Authorization bill.
        So thank you.
        Mr. Smith. Senator King, I have an answer for your
    question.
        The Veteran's pass would allow up to four adults with an
    Access Pass or a whole car.
        Senator King. So it would allow a whole car.
        Mr. Smith. It does allow.
        Senator King. Thank you, I appreciate that.
        Mr. Smith. And that's why I have as good a staff as you all
    have.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Daines. Thank you.
        I just want to note, last week we had Vice President Pence
    in Yellowstone National Park. He was in Montana on Wednesday
    and then they went down to Yellowstone National Park on
    Thursday. He made a strong statement about the importance of
    getting our deferred maintenance bill moved through Congress
    and the full support of the Administration which is great news.
        It was wonderful to see the Vice President and Mrs. Pence
    there at Old Faithful and touring the park on Thursday,
    enjoying our wonderful national parks. And anyway, it is just
    always a good sign when you have the White House out in one of
    your national parks. So I know they had a great time.
        Senator Heinrich. Chairman? I hope they saw the Montana
    portion of the park.
        Senator Daines. They did and I do have to recognize, in
    fact, Wyoming does have the majority in their state, but we
    have a lot of the gateway communities. So that is how we
    balance it out. But you are exactly right.
        Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, if I could?
        I need to mention that also the Secretary of the Interior
    here has been with all three of you in your states, in your
    parks in the very recent past. So he's been traveling on these
    same issues also.
        Senator Daines. Yes, it would be noted that Secretary
    Bernhardt and the Vice President were in Yellowstone National
    Park together, and Cam Sholly, our new superintendent there,
    did a great job as host, and Old Faithful went off right on
    schedule. That is why it is called ``Old Faithful.''
        Senator King. I also want to acknowledge Secretary
    Bernhardt came to Maine and visited some of our areas. We hope
    to get him back for Katahdin Woods and Waters, and Acadia, but
    we appreciate his willingness to come to Maine and listen to
    some of the issues that we have.
        I also thought you might enjoy, being from Maine, during
    yesterday's hearings we had a list of all of the top ten
    visited parks in the country. Acadia was about seventh, but
    then it had the acreage of each park. And I did a little
    calculation. Acadia had the most visitors per acre by a factor
    of many times. Seventy-four people per acre as opposed to
    Yellowstone which was like two people per acre. I think the
    next one was Great Smokies which was around 20. But the point I
    was making was Acadia is a very heavily visited national park,
    particularly given its size. And I know you know it very well.
        Mr. Smith. I think we need to visit again very soon,
    Senator.
        Senator King. Anytime, you never have to ask me twice to go
    to Acadia.
        Thank you.
        Senator Daines. I think it also highlights the part, the
    important point and the need to continue to invest in our
    national parks and deal with this maintenance backlog. We love
    our national parks and the visitation numbers continue to set
    records virtually every year, and why we need to move this
    legislation through during this Congress.
        If there are no more questions for today, members may also
    submit follow-up, written questions for the record. The hearing
    record will be open for two weeks.
        I want to thank Mr. Smith for his time and for his
    testimony today.
        This hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 10:30 a.m. the hearing was adjourned.]

                          APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

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