    [Senate Hearing 116-33]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                             S. Hrg. 116-33

                      HEARING ON THE NOMINATION OF ROBERT
                       WALLACE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY
                      FOR FISH, WILDLIFE, AND PARKS AT THE
                           DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                                  JUNE 4, 2019

                                   __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works

                  [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                                   __________

                          U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    36-933 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2019

                   COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
                                 FIRST SESSION

                        JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming, Chairman
    JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma            THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, -
    SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia      Ranking Member
    KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota           BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland
    MIKE BRAUN, Indiana                  BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
    MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota            SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
    DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska                 JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon
    JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas               KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, New York
    ROGER WICKER, Mississippi            CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
    RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama              EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
    JONI ERNST, Iowa                     TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
                                         CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland

                  Richard M. Russell, Majority Staff Director
                  Mary Frances Repko, Minority Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                                  JUNE 4, 2019
                               OPENING STATEMENTS

    Barrasso, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of Wyoming......     1
    Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     3
    Enzi, Hon. Mike, U.S. Senator from the State of Wyoming..........     5

                                   WITNESSES

    Wallace, Robert, Nominated to be Assistant Secretary for Fish,
      Wildlife, and Parks, Department of the Interior................     6
        Prepared statement...........................................     9
        Responses to additional questions from:
            Senator Carper...........................................    12
            Senator Booker...........................................    18
            Senator Capito...........................................    19
            Senator Cardin...........................................    20
        Response to an additional question from Senator Markey.......    21
        Response to an additional question from Senator Rounds.......    21
        Responses to additional questions from:
            Senator Sullivan.........................................    22
            Senator Wicker...........................................    22
            Senator Van Hollen.......................................    23

     HEARING ON THE NOMINATION OF ROBERT WALLACE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY
        FOR FISH, WILDLIFE, AND PARKS AT THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

                                  ----------

                             TUESDAY, JUNE 4, 2019

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m. in
    room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John Barrasso
    (chairman of the committee) presiding.
        Present: Senators Barrasso, Carper, Cramer, Braun, Rounds,
    Sullivan, Ernst, Cardin, Whitehouse, Markey, Van Hollen.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
                 U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING

        Senator Barrasso. Good morning. I call this hearing to
    order.
        Today we will consider the nomination of Rob Wallace to be
    Assistant Secretary for Fish, Wildlife, and Parks at the
    Department of the Interior. Once confirmed, he will oversee the
    U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Park Service.
    His confirmation will be especially important, as neither of
    these agencies have Senate-confirmed leadership at this time.
    He will play a central role in managing fish and wildlife for
    the American public. That includes combatting invasive species,
    recovering endangered species, protecting migratory birds,
    restoring fisheries, and conserving and enhancing wildlife
    habitat.
        I have known Rob Wallace for over 35 years. Without
    question, Rob is the right person for this job. Throughout his
    long and distinguished career, Rob has struck the proper
    balance between wildlife conservation, habitat management, and
    the use of our public lands. Rob's experience and leadership in
    Wyoming and in our Nation's capital are ideally suited for this
    critically important position.
        Throughout his 45-year career, Rob has served in a variety
    of jobs that directly relate to the two Federal agencies that
    he is being nominated to oversee. Rob began his career as a
    seasonal park ranger in Grand Teton National Park. Since then,
    Rob has served as Assistant Director of the National Park
    Service, as Chief of Staff for Wyoming Senator Malcolm Wallop,
    as Staff Director of the U.S. Senate Energy and Natural
    Resources Committee, as Chief of Staff for Wyoming Governor Jim
    Geringer, and as manager of U.S. Government Relations for GE
    Energy.
        Rob currently serves as President of the Upper Green River
    Conservancy, the Nation's first cooperative conservation bank.
    Rob co-founded the Upper Green River Conservancy to protect
    core sage grouse habitat in the ecologically and energy-rich
    upper Green River Watershed in Southwest Wyoming. He built an
    innovative partnership of ranchers, conservation groups, energy
    companies, investors and other stakeholders.
        Rob is also a founding member of the board of the Grand
    Teton National Park Foundation, which promotes the park's
    cultural, historic and natural resources. He is a member of the
    board of the Jackson Hole Land Trust, which protects open
    spaces, wildlife habitat, and working lands across northwest
    Wyoming.
        In addition, Rob serves as a member of the University of
    Wyoming's Energy Resources Council. The Council sets priorities
    for energy-related academics, research and outreach. He has
    also served on the boards of numerous organizations dedicated
    to conserving wildlife and enhancing our national parks.
        With credentials like these, it is no surprise that
    stakeholders from across the political spectrum have
    enthusiastically endorsed Rob's nomination. Dan Ashe, the
    former Director of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service during
    the Obama administration, and now the President and now the
    President of the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, wrote, ``I
    have a good context for what creates success in this important
    and challenging position: a passion for the mission of the U.S.
    Fish and Wildlife Service, and the National Park Service.'' He
    goes on to say, ``An appreciation and admiration for the people
    who do the work, a penchant for listening, and a dedication to
    inclusive problem-solving.'' He concludes by saying, ``In my
    view, Rob displays all of these crucial characteristics.''
        Richie Jones, the State Director for the Nature Conservancy
    in Delaware, also endorsed Rob's nomination. He has also
    received the support of over 40 environmental, conservation,
    and recreational organizations, including the National Parks
    Conservation Association, the National Wildlife Refuge
    Association, the Public Lands Council, Ducks Unlimited,
    American Sportfishing Association, congressional Sportsmen
    Foundation, and the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation
    Partnership.
        Confirming Rob is important to the work of this committee.
    The Environment and Public Works Committee has jurisdiction
    over fish and wildlife policy, including the U.S. Fish and
    Wildlife Service. Earlier this year, Congress enacted the
    Wildlife Innovation and Longevity Driver Act, also known as the
    WILD Act. We did so to combat invasive species, to prevent
    wildlife poaching and trafficking, to promote wildlife
    conservation and to protect endangered species.
        So I look forward to working with Rob to implement the WILD
    Act. I am in the process of developing legislation to modernize
    the Endangered Species Act. I continue to engage with State
    fish and wildlife agencies, environmental groups, conservation
    organizations, ranchers, farmers, energy producers, and others
    from across the political spectrum. I hope to gain their
    support and ultimately the support of a bipartisan group of
    Senators for a bill that modernizes the Endangered Species Act
    so it works better for species and for people.
        Rob demonstrated to the Upper Green River Conservancy that
    it is possible to build such a coalition, focused on solving
    the problems of the Endangered Species Act. So I look forward
    to working with him on modernizing this important law.
        Rob Wallace is an outstanding choice for the position of
    Assistant Secretary for Fish, Wildlife, and Parks. I look
    forward to moving his nomination expeditiously through the
    confirmation process.
        I will now turn to Ranking Member Carper for his opening
    statement.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

        Senator Carper. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
    Wallace, welcome. I want to welcome you and your daughters this
    morning.
        Also, I would like to welcome Senator Mike Enzi, one of our
    favorite colleagues. I listened to the Chairman's opening
    statement, it sounds like you have his support, and Mike Enzi's
    support, Dan Ashe's support, Richie Jones' support from
    Delaware, a whole host, like a Who's Who of organizations here
    that represent and look after the fish and wildlife, endangered
    species and habitat protection, conservation. This is one of
    those deals where you may just want to ask somebody to make a
    motion, and we just vote.
        Senator Barrasso. So moved.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Carper. We can all take an early lunch.
        Seriously, we appreciate your willingness to do this. It is
    always great to have Mike Enzi in the room, and we appreciate
    your family being here, too. We appreciate your willingness to
    serve in this role as Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife
    and Parks. I think it has to be a great job. Of all the jobs
    you could have, this has to be one of the best.
        The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Park
    Service are two agencies that, as we know, play critical roles
    in managing and protecting our Nation's most treasured natural
    resources and public lands. I am sure you will agree, given
    your experience as a park ranger, as a youngster, and as
    someone who has lived a life that I think you can be proud of.
        In Delaware, we are extremely proud of our two national
    wildlife refuges, and one of the Country's newest national
    parks, the First State National Historical Park. Our refuges
    are home to threatened and endangered species, and people from
    all over the world travel to Delaware to visit these refuges,
    as well as our national park.
        Overseeing these agencies and beloved public lands is no
    small task, but one that you seem prepared for, and I believe
    are passionate about. I especially appreciate the statement in
    your testimony, and this is a quote from you, ``Bipartisan
    solutions are always the lasting ones. Those are words of
    wisdom.''
        I could not agree more. And I hope that we will be able to
    count on you to bring that balanced approach to the
    Administration's Department of the Interior.
        Unfortunately, having said that, unfortunately, the
    Department and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in particular
    have taken actions in the last couple of years that could
    jeopardize our Nation's wildlife without bipartisan support
    from Members of Congress. Specifically, the Administration has
    proposed regulation that could dramatically alter
    implementation of the Endangered Species Act, one of our
    Nation's most popular and effective environmental laws. These
    regulations could undermine the science that is supposed to
    drive species protection decisions.
        This Administration has also adopted an unprecedented legal
    opinion relative to the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, a stance
    that former top Fish and Wildlife Service officials from both
    Republican and Democratic administrations have vehemently
    opposed. What is more, the Trump Administration has reassigned
    dozens of Department of Interior senior executive service
    employees without good reasons, which is reportedly creating a
    culture of fear within the Department. Surpassing the expertise
    of career public servants is an injustice to natural resources
    that the Department is tasked with managing.
        All of these actions, along with a number of others, are
    deeply concerning. Mr. Wallace, I would just say, as this
    committee considers your nomination, I hope you will heed these
    concerns and clearly convey a willingness to moderate some of
    these trouble actions. I also hope that we can work together to
    find bipartisan opportunities that support both solid science
    and conservation.
        I believe that tackling climate change is one such
    opportunity. And due to climate change, our treasured national
    parks and refuges in the west are increasingly beset by
    catastrophic fires. Worsening storms are damaging our coastal
    parks and refuges.
        Recently, the National Parks Conservation Association found
    that out of 417 parks surveyed, 96 percent faced significant
    air quality problems. You will learn more about how you will
    work to address these challenges. I believe it is now more
    important than ever that we work together to make sure our
    parks and our refuges are more resilient to climate change so
    that Americans may have the opportunity to visit these places
    for generations to come.
        Mr. Wallace, you also possess a great deal of expertise in
    habitat conservation and mitigation. You and I have discussed
    your work in both Wyoming and in Delaware on projects that mean
    a great deal to each of us and to this committee. Clearly, you
    understand the importance of mitigating negative impacts on our
    environment. I believe that understanding provides another
    great opportunity for you to lead within the Department of the
    Interior.
        So we look forward to hearing how you will utilize this
    expertise as Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and
    Parks if confirmed. Right now, we need qualified leaders who
    are committed to safeguarding our natural resources. I feel
    confident that you are up to that challenge.
        Thank you again for joining us. Again, welcome to your
    family. We look forward to hearing your testimony and to the
    conversation that will follow your testimony. Thank you.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Carper.
        Seeing that Senator Enzi is here, I think if there is any
    Senator that is mentioned in this committee, who is not a
    member of this committee, the No. 1 person on that list would
    be Mike Enzi, as you talk about his 80-20 rule, a good way to
    get things done legislatively and in a bipartisan way and
    working for the way.
        Senator Carper. Absolutely. I was in an Aspen Institute
    seminar in Prague last week, and we focused on U.S. relations
    with China, U.S. relations with Russia. We talked about Mike
    Enzi and the 80-20 rule. So you are all over the charts and all
    over the map.
        Senator Barrasso. With that, let me welcome to the Senate
    Committee on Environment and Public Works Senator Mike Enzi,
    Senior Senator for Wyoming, who will do the introduction.
    Senator Enzi, thanks so much for joining us today.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE ENZI,
                 U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING

        Senator Enzi. Mr. Chairman. Chairman Barrasso and Ranking
    Member Carper, it is my privilege to introduce Rob Wallace, who
    is testifying in front of your committee today on his
    nomination to serve as Assistant Secretary for Fish, Wildlife,
    and Parks at the Department of Interior.
        I have known Rob for many years, probably most of his life.
    I don't think there could be a better choice to fill the
    position. I am going to repeat some of the things that Chairman
    Barrasso said. I am a retailer, and I know that when you run an
    ad the first time, hardly anybody gets it. If you run it again,
    a few more do. And I would be willing to run this several times
    if it would help on the nomination.
        Rob was born and raised in Wyoming, where he quickly
    learned the important role that the Department of Interior
    plays in the upkeep of our State's natural beauty. In fact,
    Rob's first job after college was with the National Park
    Service. He served as a seasonal ranger in Grand Teton National
    Park. For 5 years, Rob helped with the preservation and
    maintenance of one of our Nation's finest parks.
        His passion for our Nation's public lands sent him here to
    Washington, where he handled energy and environment issues for
    former Wyoming Senator Malcolm Wallop, and before leaving
    Capitol Hill, he served as staff director of the Energy and
    Natural Resources Committee. He returned to Sheridan and the
    incredible Big Horn Mountains, until Rob once again came back
    to Washington, where he served as Assistant Director for the
    National Park Service for congressional and Legislative
    Affairs.
        During this time, he supervised the Reagan administration's
    legislative agenda for national parks, which included
    readjusting visitor entrance fees, providing resources to fight
    the 1988 forest fires, and adding several new units to the
    national park system. In 1989, Rob became Senator Wallop's
    Chief of Staff, before heading back to the Senate Energy and
    Natural Resources Committee in 1991, to again serve as staff
    director.
        I first met Rob in 1995, when he served as Chief of Staff
    to the Wyoming Governor Jim Geringer, and I was in the State
    legislature. These days, Rob is still involved in Wyoming and
    the management of our public lands. Rob serves as the president
    of the Upper Green River Conservancy. Now, that is a sage
    grouse habitat bank that partners with ranchers, energy
    companies and conservation groups that work together to protect
    critical sage grouse habitat.
        Rob's career and character reflect a man willing to step up
    and serve his community and Country. His years of experience at
    Interior and in the halls of Congress have well suited him to
    this new chapter. I am pleased to introduce him to you today,
    and I hope you will give his nomination full and fair
    consideration.
        [The prepared statement of Senator Enzi follows:]
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you for joining us, Senator Enzi.
    We will have another opportunity tomorrow to introduce Rob,
    because this is one of those positions that requires hearings
    in two committees, the Environment and Public Works Committee
    and the Energy Committee. So I look forward to seeing you again
    tomorrow morning in that committee as we introduce our friend,
    Rob.
        You are welcome to stay as long as you like. I know you
    have a pressing schedule, but thanks for being with us and
    joining us today, Senator Enzi. Thank you.
        Now, I would like to welcome to our committee the nominee,
    Rob Wallace, the nominee to be Assistant Secretary for Fish,
    Wildlife, and Parks at the Department of the Interior. I want
    to remind you; your full written testimony will be made part of
    the record. I look forward to hearing your testimony. I see
    some of your family are here. I know many of your friends are
    here. So, please, begin at your convenience.
        Mr. Wallace. With the opening statement, Senator?
        Senator Barrasso. Please, and if you would like to
    introduce your family, as well.

        STATEMENT OF ROBERT WALLACE, NOMINATED TO BE ASSISTANT
      SECRETARY FOR FISH, WILDLIFE, AND PARKS, DEPARTMENT OF THE
                                INTERIOR

        Mr. Wallace. Absolutely. Chairman Barrasso, Ranking Member
    Carper and members of the committee, thank you for having me
    here today. I am grateful to the President for nominating me to
    this position, and thank Secretary Bernhardt for his support.
        I would also like to recognize family members who are here
    from Wyoming today, my wife, Celia, who is not only a
    remarkable partner but epitomizes the spirit of bipartisanship,
    having worked for both a Democrat and Republican member of the
    Senate years ago.
        My oldest daughter, Morgan, just finished her sophomore
    year in engineering at Wake Forest University, and is down from
    New York where she is doing a renewable energy internship this
    summer. And my youngest daughter, Ella, finished fourth grade
    and cannot be here today, because she is home studying for the
    SSAT in the event she has to apply for a new school next fall.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Wallace. The four of us live a mile south of Grand
    Teton National Park and the Yellowstone ecosystem. Each year,
    our community hosts millions of visitors who come to play in
    two of the world's majestic national parks. They also marvel at
    the abundant wildlife we all enjoy, thanks to wise management
    by State and Federal officials, and the National Elk Refuge,
    located in the heart of our valley.
        But I know that simply living in a special place isn't
    sufficient justification to ask for your support to oversee two
    of the world's most celebrated agencies, the National Park
    Service, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. So I would
    like to explain a little bit about how I got here.
        My journey began decades ago when I was hired right out of
    college as a seasonal park ranger in Grand Teton National Park.
    For the next 5 years, I patrolled the park's rivers and lakes,
    worked with the mountain rescue team, enforced the game and
    fish regulations, performed law enforcement operations and
    emergency medical services on the park's highways, and traveled
    on skis for days at a time across the Yellowstone and Grand
    Teton back country. And in the fall, if my park work ended
    early, I worked at an elk hunting camp at a nearby national
    forest.
        But it wasn't the daily adventures that had the most
    profound effect on me. It was the political issues that swirled
    around every aspect of my job. Here was a place where
    dignitaries from around the world had traveled to attend the
    Second World Conference on National Parks, and where the
    President of the United States came to relax. Up the road, in
    Yellowstone, a raging debate was brewing over how to wean
    grizzly bears off human garbage. And in the Tetons, vibrant
    conversation was underway about fire management, search and
    rescue, visitors' use, and resource protection.
        In an effort to find a way to get more involved in these
    issues and others, I quit my park job and volunteered on a
    campaign for Malcolm Wallop, who was running for the U.S.
    Senate from Wyoming. His race succeeded, and suddenly I had a
    front-row seat to some of the most consequential energy,
    wildlife and natural resource issues in a generation.
        Starting my Senate career as an LA, following the EPW
    committee, and ending up as the minatory staff director of the
    Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, I was here when
    Congress tackled the Alaska Lands legislation, a crippling oil
    embargo, the Three Mile Island nuclear accident, the Exxon
    Valdez oil spill, the restructuring of the U.S. electricity
    industry, controversial endangered species issues, such as the
    spotted owl and the snail darter, and much more.
        I also broadened my understanding of new park
    authorizations, fee legislation, concession oversight and the
    importance of timely communications with Congress, while
    heading the Park Service's office of congressional Relations.
    Later, as chief of staff to the Governor of Wyoming, I was in
    the middle of wolf reintroduction in Yellowstone.
        I ended my time in Washington working for GE, where my
    primary responsibility was leading a policy team that focused
    on the deployment of clean energy technologies in the United
    States and around the world. Over the years, I also became a
    champion of public-private partnerships, through serving on
    boards of several natural resources organizations, whose
    missions were to help fund infrastructure projects, augment
    wildlife research budgets, and provide opportunities for young
    people to work and learn on our public lands. Today, I work on
    the frontiers of the Endangered Species Act in southwestern
    Wyoming, bringing ranchers, regulators, conservationists, and
    industry leaders together to protect large-scale habitats of
    the greater sage grouse, while removing barriers to multiple
    use.
        Along the way, I have learned so much, especially that no
    one ever wins by winning everything, that bipartisan solutions
    are always the lasting solutions, and that the key success to
    management is recruiting good people and trusting them to do
    their jobs.
        Finally, if confirmed, I want to stress my commitment to
    work constructively with Congress on behalf of our parks,
    refuges, fish, and wildlife. If well-meaning people engage in
    good faith and communicate effectively, the benefit to these
    national treasures can be unlimited.
        I thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Wallace follows:]

                  [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much for your testimony.
    Welcome to your family here today.
        Throughout this hearing, and with questions for the record,
    the committee members are going to have the opportunity to
    learn more about your commitment to public service for our
    great Nation.
        I have to ask a couple of questions for the record, which
    we do of all nominees. The first is, do you agree, if
    confirmed, to appear before this committee or designated
    members of the committee and other appropriate committees of
    Congress and provide information, subject to appropriate and
    necessary security protection, with respect to your
    responsibilities?
        Mr. Wallace. I do.
        Senator Barrasso. And do you agree to ensure that
    testimony, briefings, documents and electronic and other forms
    of information are provided to this committee and its staff and
    other appropriate committees in a timely manner?
        Mr. Wallace. Yes.
        Senator Barrasso. And do you know of any matters, which you
    may or may not have disclosed, that might place you in any
    conflict of interest if you are confirmed?
        Mr. Wallace. I do not.
        Senator Barrasso. I will now begin with questions. Then we
    will alternate back and forth, Senator Carper will go after I
    do.
        Can you just explain a little bit about how your
    experiences that you have had prepared you to oversee the
    National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service? You
    talked a bit about it in your opening statement. Anything else
    that comes to mind in terms of specific experience? I know you
    have been a rescue ranger, worked the back country, have seen
    it from all different levels.
        Mr. Wallace. I think one of the great things about being
    here at this time in my career is having seen a lot of
    different aspects of both the Park Service and the Fish and
    Wildlife Service and the Endangered Species Act, to the point
    where you see the power of good people coming together to solve
    complicated problems. I have seen that throughout my career. I
    know you all work with it every day in the committee.
        But it is the belief, as I said in my statement, people
    working in good faith on complicated issues can achieve
    remarkable, good things.
        Senator Barrasso. And along that line, I think about the
    American Water Infrastructure Act that we got through the
    Senate 99 to 1, it authorizes increased funding for things like
    watercraft inspection stations, in order to stop the spread of
    aquatic invasive species. The committee also led the enactment
    of the WILD Act, Wildlife Innovation and Longevity Driver Act,
    requires the specific agencies to develop strategic plans to
    reduce invasive species, on lands that they manage, and
    provides, actually, cash prizes for innovative solutions to
    better combat the invasive species.
        What is your assessment, if I could, of the invasive
    species threat to our Nation's wildlife in the national park
    system, and can we better use and coordinate efforts along
    those lines?
        Mr. Wallace. That is a question I have thought a lot about
    since the President nominated me for this position. We have,
    Senator Barrasso, as you know, invasive species in Wyoming,
    whether it is cheat grass or lake trout in Yellowstone or even
    trying to prevent quagga mussels from getting into the Snake
    River drainage and getting all the way down into the Columbia
    River. Every time I heard the word invasive species, I think it
    is just going to turn out like a bad vampire movie, because it
    is something that whatever you do, you are not going to be able
    to curtail.
        I think, if confirmed for this position, it is a chance to
    really think through what the departments are already doing,
    and see if we have to take our game up to a different level.
    Because they are everywhere.
        Senator Barrasso. I am thinking about the time you were
    chief of staff for Governor Geringer. He served at the same
    time Senator Carper was a Governor, so we have the State side
    of this, then we have the Federal side of it. Do you have any
    thoughts on how we can foster better coordination between
    Federal and State wildlife agencies? Because States are putting
    a lot of money into wildlife efforts as well.
        Mr. Wallace. I have. The word partner is a very easy word
    to say, we all say partner, but it is a lot harder to do. It
    takes a lot of work. What do you mean by partnerships? It is
    respecting the government-to-government partnerships between
    tribes and between States and sometimes local communities, it
    is respecting the partnerships between NGO's and conservation
    groups that care deeply.
        And a partnership is a partnership. That is what you commit
    to, you work with a State, you get the best advice from the
    professionals that work on an issue, and you work
    constructively toward a solution.
        Senator Barrasso. And I want to pick up on the word
    partnership, because, as you used it, under the leadership of
    this committee, the reauthorization of what is the Partners for
    Fish and Wildlife program was enacted into law in March. It is
    a voluntary program encouraging U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
    and private landowners, because I had asked you about State and
    Federal, but I am talking about now U.S. Fish and Wildlife and
    private landowners to work together on habitat conservation and
    restoration projects. Can you talk about proactive, voluntary
    conservation efforts, by landowners, private entities, when it
    comes to protecting wildlife and their habitat?
        Mr. Wallace. I look forward to working with you and the
    committee and others and implementing that Act, if confirmed.
        Senator Barrasso. So there is an important role, working
    with the private landowners as well, and other private
    entities, in terms of working along those lines.
        As Assistant Secretary, you are going to oversee both the
    Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Park Service.
    Although these agencies have fundamentally different missions,
    the authorities often overlap, certainly on lands across the
    west. You have seen it first-hand in Grand Teton and
    Yellowstone National Parks. The lands provide habitat for
    important species and are also drivers of the local economies.
    You see it all around Wyoming.
        If confirmed, how would you balance the diverse and
    sometimes competing missions of these two different agencies
    that you will oversee?
        Mr. Wallace. I think, Senator, the issue there is the
    interagency working groups that have come together on grizzly
    bears and others that we have seen throughout Wyoming and I am
    sure in other parts of the west. It is making sure those
    interagency groups are working together, coordinating with one
    another and not creating confusing data for the public to
    digest and try and understand.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you. Senator Carper.
        Senator Carper. I was happy to hear the name Jim Geringer.
    We served together 6 years, I was elected in 1992, he was
    elected in 1994. Wonderful man, and it was a joy to serve with
    him.
        I don't mean to ask a bunch of yes or no questions. I would
    ask three of them, and then I'll ask questions that will take
    more than yes or no to respond to.
        The first question is, do you agree with our Nation's
    leading scientists, including those within the Department of
    Interior, who have concluded that climate change is real, is
    caused in large part by humans, and is impacting fish, wildlife
    and parks? Do you agree with that?
        Mr. Wallace. Senator, I do agree that climate change is an
    issue and that humans have a very important role in that
    situation.
        Senator Carper. That is good. Thank you. Second question.
    Do you question the conclusions of the Fourth National Climate
    Assessment that stated our Nation's ecosystems and economy are
    at grave risk in the decades to come if we do not take climate
    actions today?
        Mr. Wallace. Senator, to be perfectly honest, I haven't
    read the assessment. I am aware of it, along with the IPCC 1.5.
    Yes, I am aware of the issues. I know that scientists are
    clearly moving in that direction. But to be fair, I have not
    read the report.
        Senator Carper. I will just ask you to answer again, for
    the record.
        Mr. Wallace. OK.
        Senator Carper. Thank you.
        Last yes or no question. Do you commit to this committee
    that if confirmed, you will not directly or indirectly
    interfere or undermine climate science?
        Mr. Wallace. Senator, I believe in the importance of
    climate science and the independence of science.
        Senator Carper. I will take that, thank you. Followup
    question, if I could. As Assistant Secretary for Fish and
    Wildlife and Parks, what will you do to make our parks and
    refuges more resilient in the face of climate change?
        Mr. Wallace. Let me take a drink of water on that one.
        Senator Carper. I will say it again while you take a drink
    of water. As Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and
    Parks, what will you do to make our parks and refuges more
    resilient in the face of climate change?
        Mr. Wallace. Let me, if I could, sort of describe my job,
    if confirmed, how I see it, Senator. If you looked at the
    combined assets of both the Fish and Wildlife Service and the
    National Park Service, there is approximately 1,000 units in 50
    States and 5 territories. If you look at, I guess one way I
    would look at your climate question is, to understand where the
    stress is on all of these different agencies, or all of these
    different areas, and have a system in place where you are
    systematically evaluating how they stand.
        So in the example of climate change, we know that the
    Governor of Louisiana is trying to adapt for that anticipation
    by thinking of moving communities up off of southeastern
    Louisiana. You see the Fish and Wildlife Service doing coastal
    resiliency projects in North Carolina with oyster bed
    construction.
        In Alaska, with melting sea ice, it is a completely
    different sort of equation, and how do you evaluate it. And
    also perhaps the coast of Oregon or Washington State, where
    they are worried about ocean acidification.
        But there are also other issues, I think, that adds stress
    to it that I could not ignore if in this position. We talked
    about invasive species, what is habitat fragmentation doing to
    migratory corridors in other parts. If you care deeply about
    historic areas in the National Park Service, what about
    battlefields, like Champion Hills and Vicksburg that may be
    rounded out if the parks focus on that? So I certainly
    acknowledge the climate issue, and I also acknowledge that
    there are other stressors within the system that I would also
    be responsible for.
        But let me tell you how I would look at all three of those.
    First of all, and foremost, follow the law. What does the law
    say you have to do, can't do or should do? No. 1. No. 2 is,
    follow the science. What are your professionals telling you
    about how to solve these problems? And it is not just the
    50,000-foot science, it is the sort of on the ground science,
    by science managers, applied science, if you will. What are
    they telling you to do about the problem?
        Then the third, and I talked about this with Senator
    Barrasso, I think it is very important, it is the role of
    partnerships. You can't solve scale problems unless you can
    figure out how to be a good partner. Sometimes the Federal
    Government is the alpha and the partnership debate, and I don't
    think that is the right construct, especially given so many
    interests from so many groups around the Country to get
    involved.
        Senator Carper. We will take that question; I might come
    back with a question for the record and you can have a chance
    to think about it and respond further. If we have another round
    of questions, I will ask a few more questions. Thank you.
        Senator Barrasso. Senator Cramer.
        Senator Cramer. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank
    you, Mr. Wallace, for being here.
        When Secretary Bernhardt was going through this same
    process, he and I dug in a little a little bit on a few issues
    that, I don't want to call them North Dakota specific, but they
    are rather North Dakota-centric. One in particular that centers
    around the prairie pothole region, and what I think is somewhat
    of a unique situation for North Dakota, in that our farmers,
    over the last century or so, in our rectangle up there in the
    northern part of our Country, had been such great stewards of
    water that they didn't drain a lot of land when it was vogue to
    do that throughout the prairie. Consequently, sometimes I think
    their good actions earlier have been probably biting them a
    little bit.
        So when it comes to specifically WPAs, or the watershed
    protection area easements that some of our farmers have
    inherited from their great-grandfather or grandfathers, with
    the lack of a clear delineation, historically poor mapping,
    what I consider an inadequate appeals process, lack of
    consistency with NRCS, particularly Swampbuster, enforcement
    inconsistencies, I raised all these issues with the Secretary
    in hopes that we could work on together, between stakeholders,
    partners, politically diverging ideals, in a way to provide
    better clarity for our farmers and avoid what I consider
    sometimes to be enforcement or regulatory takings.
        With your background, it seems to me you like have a great
    background. I was thinking specifically in fact about your sage
    grouse habitat mitigation work. I would just sort of challenge
    you at this level now and then we can certainly get into more
    specifics at a later time, as you get into the job. Just
    looking for ideas on how we can help these farmers, both within
    the legal construct, but then with advice, and like I said, if
    there is a mitigation plan that can accomplish everybody's
    goals while at the same time allowing our farmers to continue
    to grow food for a growing world population.
        I just want to plant that seed with you and look forward to
    a very specific discussion.
        Also, by the way, the Secretary committed to coming out to
    visit with our farmers. If you are confirmed prior to whenever
    that trip takes place, it would be great if you could join him
    on that trip. But first of all, just sort of in general, any
    thoughts about WPA easements and some work that we can maybe
    get done that again, accomplishes everybody's goals without
    further taking from our landowners?
        Mr. Wallace. One of the great things about this job, if I
    am confirmed, is to think about issues that I don't know a lot
    about. Right now, I can tell you this, Senator, if this is
    important to you, I will be committed to learning a lot more
    about it, perhaps coming to visit with you and meet some of
    your constituents and hear first-hand the challenges you have.
    And to the degree that it is within my ability in the
    department to help, given the legal and scientific issues that
    will also be there, more than happy to do that.
        Senator Cramer. I appreciate that. And I think one of the
    things you bring to the job, and you and I had not met before,
    but when you have such a strong endorsement as the two Senators
    from Wyoming have given, it is hard to argue with you, to be
    honest, not just because he is the Chairman, because I am a
    member of two Wyoming Senators' chairmanship, but because they
    are such quality people.
        You seem to be able to bridge the political intricacies
    pretty effectively. That is not a minor issue. As you point
    out, Delaware and Wyoming, we oftentimes find big differences.
    But you seem to have that ability, and I would look forward to
    tapping into that capacity that you have to accomplish these
    things.
        So I am just going to leave it at that for now, but I look
    forward to further discussion.
        Mr. Wallace. I look forward to learning more about it,
    Senator. Thank you.
        Senator Cramer. Thank you. I look forward to further
    discussion.
        Senator Carper. I would add that there is a Wyoming,
    Delaware. And it just south of Dover.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Carper. I have great affection for Wyoming,
    Delaware.
        Senator Barrasso. Senator Braun.
        Senator Braun. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        This is always an enjoyable conversation for me, because I
    practice conservation and at home during our recess, will never
    give up that part of it, get a few fishing trips in and so
    forth.
        I think it is sometimes overwhelming, invasive species. I
    have been fighting them on my own properties for years. I
    wonder how far that has gotten out of hand to where we can
    mostly try to contain rather than eliminate. But I don't want
    to focus on that now, I want to focus on what I have observed
    over time and have you weigh in on it.
        Twice during the break, I saw bald eagles on private lakes
    where, my goodness, where until maybe 10, 12 years ago in
    Indiana, when I was on the White River, had not seen a bald
    eagle. And now, they were doing so well, they are starting to
    colonize a lot of small lakes and places where you never
    imagined.
        Beavers, I remember as a kid I saw one on Potoka Lake when
    I was about 15 years old. It was like a rare sighting. Deer
    were basically extinct in Indiana until conservation efforts
    turned around.
        I noticed a lot of good stuff, including otters, to where
    now there is an open season on otters, simply because they have
    been reintroduced and are doing so well. Bobcats would be on
    the cusp.
        So when we talk about fish and wildlife, weigh in on what
    is good that is happening. Because it is depressing, to be
    honest, when we focus on invasive species. I know we need to,
    just, how do we grapple with it? Talk a little bit about what
    you have observed over the last few decades and are really wins
    and pluses, put it in perspective with all the challenges we
    have.
        Mr. Wallace. Well, Senator, I have observed the same thing
    that you have over time. When I was a ranger in the Grand
    Teton, the bald eagles were still at risk. Now, they are
    abundant. We have also seen in Wyoming peregrine falcons come
    back, black footed ferrets, through some very collaborative
    breeding. Sage grouse, which a lot of us have been working to
    keep off the endangered species list. Whooping cranes, grizzly
    bears have come back. They have come back in force in Wyoming.
        So you sure look at the wise management of these wildlife
    laws and say, it has been a success. At the same time, you want
    to know, what can we do better going forward, are there wiser
    ways to manage, to think about species recovery. I am fully
    aware that will be a responsibility of mine if confirmed for
    this job.
        Senator Braun. So in general, then, I think it would be
    fair to say that some of the particulars of especially
    conservation and wildlife preservation, we have a lot of good
    things to talk about. Would you view either invasive species
    and/or climate change as being things that in the near term
    could set back any of that, where we have had such rapid
    progression in the right direction? Do you view either one of
    those, because I agree both are intractable issues. We have to
    find out a way to deal with them.
        Do you see any of the gains we have made in somewhat
    immediate threat, or do you think that is in the longer context
    as well?
        Mr. Wallace. That is a great question, and I think about
    it, too, because climate is on the minds of lots of people, the
    public, members. If you look at what is happening in the
    Florida Everglades with the Burmese python, there are songbirds
    at risk of blinking out down there because of that invasive
    species. In Wyoming, about 25 years ago, a bucket biologist
    dumped a bunch of lake trout into Yellowstone Lake, as
    predators of one of the world's richest natural cutthroat
    populations anywhere in the world. Pound for pound, lake trout
    wins every time over a cutthroat. That was an important food
    group for the grizzly bears during the spawning. It really
    started to upset the entire balance of Yellowstone.
        It took biologists a number of years to figure out they had
    an invasive species problem, and then what to do about it. It
    was more than just letting everybody go out and catch as many
    lake trout as they wanted. Because the lake trout were winning
    that fight every day. They finally brought commercial seiners
    in from the Great Lakes that are catching hundreds of thousands
    of lake trout a year. I talked to the superintendent a few days
    ago, he said they put as much in gill netting down in
    Yellowstone Lake every year to stretch from Yellowstone to
    Naples, Florida, just to get a handle on an invasive species.
        So it goes to your point, Senator, that I think the Federal
    agencies and State agencies need to be observant to identifying
    a potential risk, is it coming, what can you do to prevent it.
    If it is here, how do you stabilize it, and then what do you do
    to reverse it. Those threats, I believe there is an Asian Carp
    Coalition here from members in the Mississippi and the Great
    Lakes. It is a big issue. I would be glad to have support to
    think seriously about that.
        Senator Braun. Thank you.
        Mr. Wallace. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Barrasso. Senator Markey, welcome.
        Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much.
        The Monomoy Refuge, Mr. Wallace, in 2015, the Fish and
    Wildlife Service finalized a revised comprehensive conservation
    plan for the Monomoy National Wildlife Refuge that
    reinterpreted the refuge boundaries to include the waters and
    submerged lands to the west of the refuge. This potentially
    makes it harder for Chatham residents to moor fishing boats,
    hunt or collect shellfish in those waters as they have been
    doing so for years.
        The Trump Administration has advocated for more
    recreational access to public lands, refuges and parks. But in
    the Monomoy Refuge, the Town of Chatham and its residents are
    concerned that they are losing their longstanding access.
        Mr. Wallace, if confirmed, will you commit to working with
    me to ensure public access, while also protecting the
    environment in this special place?
        Mr. Wallace. Senator, I will. I know this is a very
    important issue to you. You have raised it at Interior. I have
    had a chance to learn a little bit about it by speaking with
    your staff recently. If it would be helpful, I would be happy
    to come up there with you to meet with the people in Chatham
    and understand it first-hand. Thank you.
        Senator Markey. Yes, the town of Chatham has been a great
    steward of these waters, dating back more than 60 years. I am a
    strong supporter of our national refuges and believe that our
    beautiful lands and waters deserve protection. It is my hope
    that we can find a resolution to this issue that continues to
    protect and safeguard this unique piece of our Country. So I
    would appreciate it if you would come.
        Mr. Wallace, if you are confirmed, you would be in charge
    of our parks and refuges, a collection of national treasures
    that belong to all Americans. As Senator Carper has already
    noted in his questions, climate change is threatening these
    beautiful wild places. Rainfall is down, wildfires are up, bark
    beetles and pathogens are spreading and species are
    disappearing.
        Mr. Wallace, to followup on Senator Carper's conversation
    with you, will you commit to addressing the climate crisis as
    part of your management of our national parks, wildlife,
    refuges, if confirmed?
        Mr. Wallace. Senator, yes. The key, as I mentioned earlier,
    there are three stools to this. You have to adapt and to
    moderate the consequences of not only climate, but invasive
    species. But to do that within the law, with what the
    scientists are telling us and to work in strong partnership to
    do that work.
        Senator Markey. Yes, I just don't think it is possible to
    responsible stewards and conservationists if we are not dealing
    with the consequences of the climate crisis. It just goes hand
    in glove for the rest of our lives. We have to responsibly deal
    with that.
        The State of Alaska is proposing the development of a 200-
    mile industrial road that would cut through the gates of the
    Arctic National Preserve and bisect one of the longest land
    migration routes in the world. Western Arctic caribou herd
    travels as far as 2,700 miles a year from their wintering
    grounds along the Bering Sea to their calving grounds on the
    Arctic coastal plain. This migration is longer than the
    distance between New York and Seattle, and it could be cutoff
    if this road moves forward.
        Mr. Wallace, are you aware of this proposal and the
    planning process currently underway?
        Mr. Wallace. Senator, I am actually not that familiar. Of
    course, from the news, but I haven't been down to the
    Department of Interior yet, having just been the nominee for 22
    days. But I know this is an issue that will be in my office and
    I will be quickly getting up to speed on it.
        Senator Markey. Obviously, this road is going to have a
    huge impact on wildlife and public lands in the region. So we
    are going to be working with you on this overseeing what is
    going to be taking place here. Because it could have severe
    adverse impacts in that region. We are just going to be
    expecting you to work with us to make sure that damage does not
    occur.
        So thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much, Senator Markey.
        We are fortunate to have joining us now the Senator from
    Alaska, who may have some input on that very issue.
        Senator Sullivan. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really
    love my colleague, Ed Markey. He and I work together on a bunch
    of things. But his attention to Alaska sometimes astounds me.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Sullivan. Because with all due respect to the
    Senator from Alaska, I care a hell of a lot more about Alaska
    and my constituents than he does. So I am just trying to get
    the numbers of miles of roads that Alaska has relative to
    Massachusetts. My State is probably, well, I know it is 491
    times the size of Rhode Island.
        Senator Whitehouse. Yes, you had to say that.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Sullivan. But it is probably at least 200 times the
    size of Massachusetts. And I guarantee you, Massachusetts has
    more roads than my State. So most Alaskans really want roads.
        And here is the thing. Unfortunately, radical environmental
    groups always do this, oh, my God, everything is going to die
    when you build a road, a damned road. In most States, you can
    build a road anywhere you want, and you don't have 80
    environmental groups suing to stop it. But in my State, you try
    to build a road, one damned road, and you will have so many
    outside groups who don't care about my constituents, suing to
    stop a road.
        Most people just assume you can build a road anywhere in
    America. Can't build a road in Alaska, though, because of
    colleagues like my friend, good friend Ed Markey, who want to
    stop roads.
        Senator Barrasso. What is the number on the roads?
        Senator Sullivan. We have a third the number of miles of
    roads than Massachusetts, and we are probably at least 200
    times the size of the State. So just take that one there, Mr.
    Wallace. We are going to be working on making sure--and by the
    way, when you hear the parade of horribles, remember last time
    there was a parade of horrible on the porcupine caribou herd is
    when we built the Trans-Alaska pipeline, one of the most
    important features of American energy independence in certainly
    our Country.
        The parade of horribles was the porcupine caribou herd was
    going to be destroyed. It increased four times the size when
    the pipeline was built. Now, you never hear the radical
    environmental groups saying that, because it wasn't true. The
    same stuff is going on with the development of Anwar, which you
    are going to have a role in, which this Congress passed, the
    President signed, the Alaskan people want it, almost 70 percent
    want it.
        So we are going to work with you on that as well. But don't
    believe the hype. We need roads in Alaska. They are not going
    to harm the caribou. And the outside groups that want to shut
    down Alaska, who none of them live there, by the way, you are
    going to listen to my constituents more than those groups,
    because my constituents want roads, we need roads.
        This just kind of aggravates me, as you can see. I have so
    many Senators caring about roads in my State, when they have a
    lot more roads than my State does. And it is not fair, it is
    not fair. You can't build a road in Alaska, because outside
    groups stop to sue it, sue to stop it. It is outrageous. I wish
    they would come and sue when you guys in Rhode Island or
    Massachusetts wanted to build a road. Nobody sues to stop
    building roads in your States. But they all come to my State.
        So we are going to work on that, and we are going to build
    that road. And it is not going to hurt the caribou at all.
        So let me get to my questions. Mr. Wallace, the Supreme
    Court recently ruled nine to zero, Elena Kagan in a landmark
    decision for Alaska in a case just recently, called Sturgeon v.
    Frost, which was about ANILCA. I am sure you are familiar with
    ANILCA, another huge Federal law that tried to lock up Alaska
    passed in 1980. To just kind of--well, first, have you read the
    Sturgeon v. Frost case?
        Mr. Wallace. Senator, I have not.
        Senator Sullivan. So before we vote on your confirmation, I
    think it is critical that you read that decision. Can I get
    your commitment that you will?
        Mr. Wallace. If it is important to you, Senator, I will do
    that, yes.
        Senator Sullivan. It is a really important case. It
    essentially says that for decades, ANILCA has not been
    implemented correctly by Federal agencies, Fish and Wildlife
    Service, National Park Service. So I would like to get a
    commitment with you, this is a nine to zero Supreme Court case,
    to work with me as you look to revise your regulations that
    would implement the holding of the U.S. Supreme Court nine to
    zero in Sturgeon v. Frost. Can I get your commitment to work
    with me and my office on that?
        Mr. Wallace. Senator, if it is an important issue to you,
    it will be an important issue to me.
        Senator Barrasso. Can I interrupt for 1 second, Senator?
    So, ANILCA, for those of us, it is the Alaska National Interest
    Lands Conservation Act passed in 1980.
        Senator Sullivan. Correct.
        Senator Barrasso. For some other members of the committee
    and the audience. Thank you.
        Senator Sullivan. Thank you. And let me ask, I know I am
    running out of time, I didn't think I was going to talk about
    roads, but my colleague got me spun up on that.
        We have a problem in southeast Alaska with sea otters,
    which have grown in enormous numbers in terms of population.
    They are not listed as endangered. And they are having a very
    negative impact on a very important industry in southeast
    Alaska, shellfish, fin fish, fisheries. I was just in southeast
    Alaska the last couple of weeks and this issue is reaching kind
    of an emergency level proportions.
        Can I get your commitment, Mr. Wallace, if confirmed, to
    work with me and my office on addressing this big issue with
    regard to the sea otter population and its negative impact on
    fisheries in Alaska, which is really, like I said, reaching
    crisis proportions?
        Mr. Wallace. Senator, this is marine mammal issue on taking
    with the sea otter.
        Senator Sullivan. It is, and it is also the decimation that
    they have had with regard to the fishing industry. But the Fish
    and Wildlife Service has oversight and responsibility as it
    relates to this issue.
        Mr. Wallace. I commit to learning a lot more about this
    issue than I know now, and be back to visit with you about it.
        Senator Sullivan. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.
    Chairman.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Sullivan. Senator
    Whitehouse.
        Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman.
        Welcome, Mr. Wallace. The Chairman speaks very highly of
    you and says that I am probably going to like you. He is a very
    honorable man and I appreciate that very much.
        You do suffer the catastrophic disability of being from a
    landlocked State, however.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Whitehouse. But I think your sense of nature and
    her beauty is probably animated every time you wake up and see
    the glow of the dawn on the Tetons. You certainly do come from
    a special place in the world.
        I wanted to ask you a little bit about a local issue, and
    then an oceans issue. The local issue is that we have a
    Blackstone Valley park that has been worked on for some time.
    It is still being fully defined. And unlike other national
    parks where you start with basically a big empty piece of land,
    you draw the metes and bounds and you say, that is a park now,
    this park exists in a very developed environment. It is a
    series of specific locations threaded through by the historic
    Blackstone River. It runs up into Massachusetts as well.
        It has been described as like a pearl necklace with all
    these different pearls along the way, and the thread that ties
    them together is the river. But it has been through being a
    protected area, it has been through being a national protected
    river, it has been through a whole variety of iterations on its
    way to becoming a national park.
        So it is not an easy thing to run through. There are a lot
    of bureaucratic hooks and attachment, there is a lot of stuff
    going on. And you have to think about park land in a slightly
    new way to adapt it to the existing developed environment this
    park will inhabit.
        So I am going to need to be able to talk to you about that,
    and to get your attention. Because this is not the type of park
    you are used to out west, where you come to the gate and there
    is the park ranger, and in you go and now you are on park land.
    This is a very different idea of how you can make a park work.
    And not only are we trying to thread the river through all of
    this, we are trying to make sure that the river is traversable
    through all of this area, so that there are put-ins and take-
    outs for canoes, and for people who don't want to do that, that
    there are bike paths that connect all of this.
        And all of this is through built areas, and in-built areas.
    So it has been a long, long, long, long, long, slow, process I
    just want to make sure that you will take a good look at this
    when you get in. I want the chance to come and talk you through
    what this has been and where we are trying to get, so that you
    understand that the command level, the complexities of closing
    out this particular park and launching it as a crown jewel of
    New England.
        Mr. Wallace. Senator, I look forward to working with you,
    if confirmed, on this issue. We will certainly know more about
    it the next time we see each other than I do right now.
        Senator Whitehouse. Yes. Well, thank you, and we will get
    together on that.
        Mr. Wallace. OK.
        Senator Whitehouse. The other issue I want to talk with you
    about is oceans. Again, from Wyoming, we are always a little
    bit suspicious of landlocked States and how much interest they
    will have in oceans. The Department of Interior has a long,
    long history of focusing on the west and on inland and upland
    issues, without paying much attention to coastal issues. We are
    now seeing dramatic coastal changes, driven by sea level rise,
    temperature change, acidification, the concerns that you have
    mentioned already.
        But it makes the coasts a matter of real concern. And I
    wanted to let you know that not only is it a matter of really
    grave concern, but it is also a matter of real bipartisan
    opportunity. Ocean plastics is a critical issue. The Interior
    Department website talks about the eight million tons of
    plastic waste that gets dumped in the oceans every year. The
    President signed Senator Sullivan's and my legislation in a
    very, how shall we say, lively Oval Office ceremony. It passed
    unanimously in the Senate. It passed on suspension in the
    House. We are working on another one that we are hoping will
    pass unanimously. Senator Inhofe from Oklahoma has been one of
    our key supporters on all of this.
        So what I want you to take away from this is a, we are
    going to be coming after you on oceans. You need to pay
    attention to this. It is not just upland and inland any longer.
    And b, there are big, big bipartisan opportunities for you to
    help lead and to support in this area. We are often a divided
    committee. On these oceans issues, acidification, plastics, sea
    level rise, coastal wetlands, there is enormous potential.
    Seize the day.
        Mr. Wallace. Again, this is an area, as you noted, I am
    from a landlocked State. But I am certainly aware of the issues
    that members like you in the coastal States are grappling with.
    I look forward to learning a lot more about what we are doing
    at the Department of Interior, the opportunity for
    partnerships, coastal resiliency issues. Thank you, I will be
    smarter on that one, too, the next time I see you.
        Senator Whitehouse. And some day, Mr. Chairman, we might
    even change the name so it is not just the Department of the
    Interior.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Whitehouse. There are some edges that count too.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse. And
    heading to one of those edges, welcome back, Senator Sullivan.
        Senator Sullivan. Mr. Chairman, thanks again. Mr. Wallace,
    I just want to reiterate what my friend, Senator Whitehouse,
    mentioned. There is a great opportunity, we will be introducing
    our Save Our Seas 2.0 legislation here soon, where we think
    there is a great bipartisan opportunity. The President and the
    Administration are really engaged on these issues. And it is
    actually an environmental issue that is solvable. Estimates are
    anywhere up from ten rivers, five countries in Asia constitute
    over 80 percent of the plastic ocean waste in the world.
        So there is a lot we can do. Senator Whitehouse has really
    been the leader on this in the Senate. He and I have been
    working together the last several years on it. We want to bring
    you in on that. It is a great area of bipartisan cooperation
    with everybody on board, industry, environmental groups, the
    Trump Administration, Democrats, Republicans. I think we
    should, as he mentioned, seize the day. So we will have a good
    opportunity to talk about this in our followup meeting
    tomorrow, I think.
        Senator Whitehouse. And I would just commend the Chairman
    and the Ranking Member for their bipartisan engagement on this
    issue as well. It has really been terrific.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse.
        Senator Braun?
        Senator Braun. Thank you. I have a bill that proposes that
    we take a defined inventory on the maintenance that is required
    on Federal properties. Indiana Dunes is now a national park. It
    was up there a few weeks ago. One of the original homesteads in
    that area, which was used by the State, it has fallen into
    disrepair, several million dollars' worth of cost.
        What is your opinion on the need to size up to see what the
    cost is? It is maybe estimated $15 billion to $20 billion, no
    one really knows. Do you think with an asset base that large,
    that we ought to have an inventory of what the maintenance
    needs would be?
        Mr. Wallace. Senator, again, having not been down to the
    department yet, it is one of those issues that I would like to
    take back to the professionals down there to see how they are
    thinking about this issue. You are certainly, your question
    makes a lot of sense. You ought to know what you are trying to
    fix before you go fix something. Just on the surface of what
    you just told me, it makes eminently good sense.
        Senator Braun. I would like you to keep that in the
    consideration. Once the process is concluded and you are there,
    I would like you to keep that in mind. Because I think it is
    important, that is a huge figure. We need to know what it is
    and then start tackling the problem. Thank you.
        Mr. Wallace. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Barrasso. Senator Carper.
        Senator Carper. Mr. Wallace, as I mentioned in my opening
    statement, Delaware is real proud of, not of the fact that we
    were the last State to have a national park designated, but we
    were the first State, Delaware was the first State to ratify
    the Constitution. For seven whole days, Delaware was the entire
    United States of America.
        And we opened things up, we let in Maryland, Pennsylvania,
    New Jersey, and I think it has turned out all right most of the
    time. But our national park actually focuses on Delaware's
    historical, the arrival of the first Swedes and Finns to
    America, in Delaware, the Dutch presence in Lewes, Delaware.
    The last, I believe, the oldest standing house in America is in
    Lewes, Delaware. William Penn came to America in New Castle,
    Delaware, brought with him the deeds to what ultimately became
    Pennsylvania and Delaware. And the Constitution was first
    ratified in Dover, Delaware on December 7th, 1787.
        The National park in Delaware actually tells part of the
    history of our Country through the eyes of Delaware and through
    those sites and places in Delaware that I have just mentioned.
        The National Park Service has identified a location for a
    visitor center at the park, but has not yet committed to move
    to design and construction. The park is also in need of
    additional signage and a deer management plan. I would just ask
    you, if you might be willing to come and visit, if confirmed,
    to visit our State and take a look at our park and some of what
    we are really proud of, and also some of our needs.
        Mr. Wallace. Senator, I would be honored to do that. Thank
    you for the invitation.
        Senator Carper. You are welcome. Thank you for the answer.
        Mr. Wallace. It is a yes, it is a yes.
        Senator Carper. Next question. The Trump Administration has
    reassigned, I am told, several dozens of senior executive
    service employees. Some of these employees were outspoken,
    apparently, on climate change. A number of the reassignments
    have been perceived as retaliatory. Rather than accept
    reassignment, several of these dedicated public servants
    ultimately left the department.
        As Assistant Secretary, would you be willing to provide to
    Congress detailed information about the rationale behind any
    future SES reassignments upon request? I am not asking about
    past, looking back. Not retrospective, but in perspective.
        Mr. Wallace. My sense, Senator, is that there would be a
    lot of privacy information. But again, I am not down there, I
    am not aware of, I am certainly aware because of the news about
    the SES issues. I would tell you personally I value greatly the
    SES people that I have run across during my time in government.
    I just don't know enough about this issue to make a commitment
    one way or the other about it. I am sorry, but I don't.
        Senator Carper. All right. Then I am going to ask, would
    you commit to protect career staff at the Department of
    Interior, moving forward, and to bolster their expertise
    instead of suppressing it?
        Mr. Wallace. I am sorry, could you give me that question
    again, please?
        Senator Carper. Would you commit to protect career staff at
    the Department of the Interior, and bolster their expertise
    instead of suppressing it?
        Mr. Wallace. I absolutely would. I am a big believer in the
    SES program. We have seen the caliber of the leaders that have
    come through, both in the Fish and Wildlife Service and the
    Park Service, they are just the tops. So I am a strong
    proponent of that. I also want a pipeline in place, so if
    somebody moves on, retires, takes another job, there is a bench
    to come in and fill behind them of equally capable people.
        So yes, sir.
        Senator Carper. Thank you. And one last question. People
    travel from around the world to view birds and other wildlife
    at our two national wildlife refuges that sit right on the
    Delaware Bay. Bombay Hook is one of them, and the other is
    called Prime Hook. These special refuges employ less than a
    dozen people, and they have hundreds of acres, cover hundreds
    and hundreds of acres. But they employ less than a dozen
    people. The staff works hard to maintain the refuges and makes
    sure they remain accessible to the public.
        Among other important positions, our refuges have a visitor
    services coordinator and a law enforcement official. As the
    Trump Administration continues Department of Interior
    reorganization efforts, would you commit to us today that
    refuge employees, like Delaware's, will not lose critical staff
    as a result? And how will you work with refuge managers and
    project leaders to make sure their staffing needs are met?
        Mr. Wallace. I would be able to answer this, Senator
    Carper, in a general way, but also with a commitment, if we
    make that visit to the national park together, maybe also talk
    more and see more about the issue that you just raised with me
    personally. But we need motivated men and women in the National
    Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service that get up
    every day and whistle while they go to work.
        Senator Carper. Like we do here in the Senate.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Wallace. Exactly. I will do it in my job, if confirmed.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Wallace. So the health and well-being and the training
    and the morale, there would be 3,000 people under the Assistant
    Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and Parks, who are all going to
    be an important priority to me in terms of their training and
    their morale. I will be happy to learn more about the people in
    the refuge system that you just spoke of.
        Senator Carper. We appreciate your answers. We probably
    have a couple of questions for the record, and if confirmed, we
    look forward to welcoming you, and perhaps your family, to the
    First State. Thanks very much.
        Senator Barrasso. I want to thank you, Senator Carper.
        I do have a letter of support for the nomination of Rob
    Wallace from the National Wildlife Refuge Association. It is
    from Geoffrey Haskett, he is the president of the association,
    who writes, ``We believe Mr. Wallace has the background,
    experience, and leadership abilities to perform in an
    exceptional manner in the position of Assistant Secretary.'' I
    ask unanimous consent to enter this letter into the record.
        Senator Carper. I object.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Barrasso. Then I have 40 more. And they are
    wonderful letters----
        Senator Carper. I don't object.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Barrasso [continuing]. of over sportsmen,
    environmental, and conservation groups have written in support
    of the nomination of Rob Wallace. These groups universally
    praised Rob's work experience, his knowledge of our Nation's
    public lands and wildlife. And I ask unanimous consent to enter
    these into the record.
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        Senator Barrasso. And speaking of whistling your way to
    work, I noticed joining us in the back of the room is Kathi
    Wise, 40 years worked with Malcolm Wallop, worked with you as a
    member of the staff of Senator Wallop's team. Remains a stellar
    employee, whistles while she comes to work every day, really a
    treasure of the Senate. I just want to know if she has always
    had that kind of dedication and hard work and such character
    and credibility, or is that something you instilled in her as
    she was working with you as Malcolm's chief of staff? Or has
    that always been a part of her life?
        Mr. Wallace. It is a legacy issue, Senator.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you for being here, thank you for
    bringing your family and so many friends. The opportunity for
    other members to put questions in for the record, we ask that
    they submit questions for the record by Thursday, June 6th,
    close of business. The nominee should respond to the questions
    by June 12th.
        I want to thank you and congratulate you, thank you for
    your time and thank you for your testimony today.
    Congratulations.
        [Whereupon, at 11:23 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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