[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
A REVIEW OF DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION
AT AMERICA'S LARGE BANKS
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON DIVERSITY
AND INCLUSION
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
FEBRUARY 12, 2020
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services
Serial No. 116-86
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
42-820 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
MAXINE WATERS, California, Chairwoman
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York PATRICK McHENRY, North Carolina,
NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York Ranking Member
BRAD SHERMAN, California ANN WAGNER, Missouri
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma
WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri BILL POSEY, Florida
DAVID SCOTT, Georgia BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
AL GREEN, Texas BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan
EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri STEVE STIVERS, Ohio
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado ANDY BARR, Kentucky
JIM A. HIMES, Connecticut SCOTT TIPTON, Colorado
BILL FOSTER, Illinois ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio FRENCH HILL, Arkansas
DENNY HECK, Washington TOM EMMER, Minnesota
JUAN VARGAS, California LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas ALEXANDER X. MOONEY, West Virginia
AL LAWSON, Florida WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio
MICHAEL SAN NICOLAS, Guam TED BUDD, North Carolina
RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee
KATIE PORTER, California TREY HOLLINGSWORTH, Indiana
CINDY AXNE, Iowa ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin
BEN McADAMS, Utah LANCE GOODEN, Texas
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, New York DENVER RIGGLEMAN, Virginia
JENNIFER WEXTON, Virginia WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts VAN TAYLOR, Texas
TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
ALMA ADAMS, North Carolina
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
JESUS ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
Charla Ouertatani, Staff Director
Subcommittee on Diversity and Inclusion
JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio, Chairwoman
WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri ANN WAGNER, Missouri, Ranking
AL GREEN, Texas Member
JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas ALEXANDER X. MOONEY, West Virginia
AL LAWSON, Florida TED BUDD, North Carolina
AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee
TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii TREY HOLLINGSWORTH, Indiana
ALMA ADAMS, North Carolina ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio, Vice
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania Ranking Member
SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota LANCE GOODEN, Texas
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on:
February 12, 2020............................................ 1
Appendix:
February 12, 2020............................................ 37
WITNESSES
Wednesday, February 12, 2020
Barry, Subha, President, Working Mother Media.................... 12
Bentsen, Hon. Kenneth E., Jr., President and Chief Executive
Officer, Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association
(SIFMA)........................................................ 5
Elhalaby, Rawan, Senior Economic Equity Program Manager, The
Greenlining Institute.......................................... 8
Greenfield, Gail, Senior Principal, Workforce Strategy and
Analytics, Mercer.............................................. 13
Mercer, Naomi, Senior Vice President, Diversity, Equity, and
Inclusion, American Bankers Association (ABA).................. 7
Vaughan, Joseph M., Executive Director, Corporate Diversity and
Inclusion Forum................................................ 10
APPENDIX
Prepared statements:
Barry, Subha................................................. 38
Bentsen, Hon. Kenneth E., Jr................................. 49
Elhalaby, Rawan.............................................. 54
Greenfield, Gail............................................. 93
Mercer, Naomi................................................ 102
Vaughan, Joseph M............................................ 113
A REVIEW OF DIVERSITY AND
INCLUSION AT AMERICA'S
LARGE BANKS
----------
Wednesday, February 12, 2020
U.S. House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Diversity
and Inclusion,
Committee on Financial Services,
Washington, D.C.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:10 a.m., in
room 2128, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Joyce Beatty
[chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding.
Members present: Representatives Beatty, Clay, Green,
Gottheimer, Lawson, Adams, Dean, Garcia of Texas, Phillips;
Wagner, Budd, Hollingsworth, Gonzalez of Ohio, Steil, and
Gooden.
Ex officio present: Representative Waters.
Chairwoman Beatty. The Subcommittee on Diversity and
Inclusion will come to order. Without objection, the Chair is
authorized to declare a recess of the subcommittee at any time.
Also, without objection, members of the full Financial Services
Committee who are not members of this subcommittee are
authorized to participate in today's hearing.
Today's hearing is entitled, ``A Review of Diversity and
Inclusion at America's Large Banks.''
I now recognize myself for 4 minutes for an opening
statement.
In today's hearing, I am proud to discuss a review of
diversity and inclusion within America's 44 largest banks. Last
June, Chairwoman Maxine Waters and I sent a letter to 44 of the
largest banks in America requesting them to share their
diversity data with this committee.
Months of analysis and review of banks' responses led to
the creation of the committee's staff report entitled,
``Diversity and Inclusion: Holding America's Largest Banks
Accountable,'' which was circulated with today's hearing
materials. This report confirms that America's largest banks
must be more transparent so that regulators, Congress, and the
American people can hold them accountable for real and
intentional diversity and inclusion outcomes.
Nearly all banks submitted substantive, qualitative data to
share their diversity and inclusion (D&I) recruitment
strategies and outreach to diverse organizations. But this
report shows that despite some successes in recruitment
strategies and establishing employee resource groups, our work
is not done and there is progress to be made.
For instance, the research shows that there are clear
barriers in retaining and promoting underrepresented groups in
the banking industry. Experts know the commitment to diversity
and inclusion must be driven from the top down, and there is a
lack of diverse groups within C-Suites and boardrooms, as the
report shows by the banks' own data submission.
Therefore, banks need more commitment, concrete plans, and
cultural changes, in terms of C-Suite and board diversity.
Also, we need more inclusion, in terms of business diversity,
especially in the utilization of diverse asset managers, law
firms, and women- and minority-owned business partnerships.
This report is the first step in requiring banks to respond to
our call in holding them accountable.
This first-ever Subcommittee on Diversity and Inclusion has
garnered national attention and has brought diversity and
inclusion to the forefront of the nation's largest financial
institutions. We have already seen some banks make public
commitments to hold themselves accountable for improving
diversity and inclusion within their firms.
For example, CNBC reported in January that Goldman Sachs
was setting a new standard of having at least one diverse board
member before taking any companies public. Additionally,
Citigroup announced their commitment to close the gender gap.
Today, we welcome a distinguished panel of witnesses who
will testify to the predominant challenges faced by banks in
creating an inclusive workforce. I believe we must mirror the
world we want to live in. As you know, this has been a long
journey, and it is very important to me and this entire
committee. When representation and equity is an overarching
priority in the banking industry, we can develop banks that
out-innovate and outperform others and continue to move the
needle within the industry.
I reserve the balance of my time for the Chair of the full
Financial Services Committee, the Honorable Chairwoman Maxine
Waters.
The Chair now recognizes the ranking member of the
subcommittee, Mrs. Wagner, for 4 minutes for an opening
statement.
Mrs. Wagner. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
I want to thank our witnesses for testifying before the
subcommittee today. Today's panel includes expert witnesses
representing multiple parts of the financial services industry.
I look forward to hearing your testimony and taking this
opportunity to learn more about the strides being made within
the industry and successful strategies for recruiting and
retaining diverse employees.
Republican and Democrat members of this committee agree
that firms have more work to do to improve diversity,
particularly in leadership positions. And, in fact, all of the
banks surveyed in the Majority staff report acknowledge in some
way that they need improvement with respect to diversity and
inclusion.
The Majority report found that the two most commonly cited
challenges in improving diversity and inclusion at the
financial institutions were: one, the competition for diverse
talent with finance-related expertise; and two, the ability of
firms to retain a diverse workforce. Studies continue to show
that minorities and women tend to leave financial services
firms at a higher rate than their white male counterparts.
To improve the rate of retention, companies must adjust
their culture and promote the development of diverse talent.
This requires a pronounced commitment from corporate leadership
and a specific action plan to increase inclusion. In order to
be most effective, company policy changes should be implemented
from the very top down and have buy-in at all levels of
management.
In reading the Majority report, I am encouraged that many
corporations are proactively addressing diversity and
inclusion, and a set of best practices are emerging. Some of
the best practices we have learned about in hearings in this
committee and in Congress regarding retention rates and
improving inclusivity of the workplace include: providing
financial literacy training; transparency regarding salaries
and promotion opprtunities; mentoring and sponsoring programs;
employee resource groups; unconscious bias training; and
flexible work hours for working mothers.
Various studies have identified several benefits for
companies that increase their diversity, including different
perspectives, increased creativity, more innovation, faster
problem-solving, better decisions, higher profits, lower
turnover, and improved hiring. So, we know just how beneficial
it is to have a diverse and inclusive workplace.
And industry has taken notice, too. According to our
witness, Dr. Greenfield's, testimony, the projected
representation among women and people of color in the industry
over the next 10 years is expected to continue increasing. We
look forward to hearing more about that. Dr. Greenfield's
research shows that there are different areas of strength and
weakness within the industry when it comes to representation.
For women, she says that retention is an area of strength,
while hiring and promotion are areas where improvement is
needed. For people of color, hiring is an area of strength,
while promotion and retention are areas where more focus is
needed. These findings are reflective of what this subcommittee
has heard from multiple witnesses that, while there are clear
efforts being made by the industry to improve and declare
acknowledgement of the benefits of a diverse workplace, good
work is being accomplished and more can be done.
I look forward to learning more today about the current
state of diversity and inclusion within the financial services
industry, the direction it is heading, and how Congress can
help promote the best practices and strategies that we will
hear about today. I am proud of this subcommittee for examining
these important issues and I applaud the chairwoman for her
efforts. Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you.
The Chair now recognizes the chairwoman of the full
Financial Services Committee, the Honorable Maxine Waters, for
1 minute.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Before I
begin, I would like to thank you for holding this hearing and
for your leadership on this important issue. I am so very proud
that your efforts have culminated in the issuance of an
historic and groundbreaking staff report on the diversity of
our nation's large banks.
This report has been a long time in coming. Back in June
2019, you and I, Madam Chairwoman, sent letters to the 44 banks
with more than $50 billion in assets, asking them to report on
their workforce diversity, their investment with diverse firms,
their diversity practices and policies, and any challenges they
face in achieving diversity.
I believe that America's banks took our charge seriously,
and I thank them for their participation in this effort. The
information they have provided is illuminating and is something
that the American public deserves to see. The committee staff
report found that banks have a lot of work to do, in terms of
diversifying their senior staff and their boards. Banks also
need to do more to contract with minority- and women-owned
businesses.
Moreover, banks need to disclose their data to their
regulators and to the American public. I believe that today,
with this hearing, we are bringing diversity at our large banks
from out of the shadows and into the light.
And, Madam Chairwoman, again, I want to thank you. You've
worked very hard. I know that this is a subject that is dear to
you and that you are doing everything possible to help our
banks and other corporations understand what their
responsibilities are to all of the people. With that, I yield
back.
Chairwoman Beatty. And thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Today,
we welcome the testimony of a distinguished panel of six
witnesses. And I thank you all for being here.
First, we welcome the testimony of Kenneth Bentsen, Jr.,
president and chief executive officer of the Securities
Industry and Financial Markets Association (SIFMA). Mr. Bentsen
also served as a Member of the United States House of
Representatives, representing Texas, and he actually sat on the
House Financial Services Committee.
Second, we welcome the testimony of Naomi Mercer, the
senior vice president of diversity, equity, and inclusion for
the American Bankers Association, a trade association which
represents banks of all asset sizes.
Third, we welcome the testimony of Rawan Elhalaby, the
senior economic equity program manager at the Greenlining
Institute, where she leads the organization's research efforts
around bank accountability and financial inclusion.
Fourth, we welcome the testimony of Joseph Vaughan, the
executive director of the Corporate Diversity and Inclusion
Forum, an organization that leads efforts to promote and
enhance diversity and inclusion performance within the
financial services industry.
Fifth, we welcome the testimony of Subha Barry, the current
president of Working Mothers Media, and a past senior vice
president and chief diversity officer at Freddie Mac.
And finally, we welcome the testimony of Gail Greenfield, a
senior workforce strategy and analytics consultant at Mercer.
Dr. Greenfield has more than 15 years of experience in
diversity and inclusion, including workforce analytics, pay
equity, and diversity and inclusion analytics.
The witnesses are reminded that their oral testimony will
be limited to 5 minutes. And without objection, your written
statements will be made a part of the record. The witnesses are
reminded to turn on their microphones and abide by the three
lights in front of you: green means go; yellow means wrap it
up; and red actually means stop.
Mr. Bentsen, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give
an oral presentation of your testimony. And then, we will go in
the same order as you were all introduced.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE KENNETH E. BENTSEN, JR., PRESIDENT
AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, SECURITIES INDUSTRY AND FINANCIAL
MARKETS ASSOCIATION (SIFMA)
Mr. Bentsen. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty, Ranking Member
Wagner, Chairwoman Waters, and distinguished members of the
subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on
behalf of SIFMA and to share our members' commitment to
diversity and inclusion in the securities industry.
SIFMA commends the members of this committee for your
collective focus on this important issue. SIFMA is the leading
trade association for broker-dealers, investment banks, and
asset managers operating in the United States and global
capital markets. SIFMA's members recognize that achieving
diversity in our workforce is a necessary goal that requires an
ongoing commitment to fostering the culture of diversity and
inclusion, and that a diverse and inclusive workforce that
reflects the diversity of the clients and communities we serve
is both the right thing to do and a business imperative.
The commitment is a priority for SIFMA's board of
directors. Through our Diversity and Inclusion Advisory
Council, we provide a forum that allows our members the
opportunity to discuss their unique initiatives and to
benchmark with their peers on ways to achieve their D&I goals.
SIFMA, through our D&I Advisory Council and industry-wide
channels, convenes conferences, roundtables, and symposia to
enhance D&I efforts for our members.
Biennially, SIFMA, on behalf of our participating member
firms, facilitates a thorough benchmarking survey. This study,
conducted on a confidential basis, allows our members to assess
their firm's D&I plans and how their progress compares to the
results of their peers and to look respectively at the strong
policies and practices needed to in order to achieve future
goals.
SIFMA completed its most recent survey in 2018, and while I
can't share the specific survey results due to nondisclosure
agreements, I did want to share a few topline observations. All
participants reported having a strategic plan for diversity. In
the United States, 95 percent of organizations' strategic plans
explicitly address gender, gender identity, race, and
ethnicity. Sexual orientation and veterans were also commonly
covered in 80 percent. Responses indicated that leaders at all
levels in the industry are actively engaged in diversity and
inclusion efforts, particularly senior leaders.
Representation of women in the industry was 44 percent. The
overall industry hire rate for women is comparable to the rate
of men, as is the overall turnover rate, indicating that while
both populations are growing, the share of women in the
industry relative to men has remained steady. Likewise, the
share of women is projected to increase by 2 percentage points
over the next 5 years, and 3 percentage points over the next 10
years, making the ratio of men to women equal.
People of color make up roughly one-third of the overall
industry population in the United States. The overall industry
rate for people of color exceeds that for whites by more than 5
percentage points, while the turnover rate is about 2
percentage points higher for people of color than for whites,
indicating that the percentage of people of color relative to
whites in the industry has been increasing.
Ninety-four percent examined pay equity. Sixty-seven
percent of the respondents conduct such analysis at least once
a year. Eighty-two percent of respondents said adjustments are
made as far as the annual review process, and a similar number
said they have a formal remediation process to address pay
equity risk.
Our members report to us that they are employing a wide
array of strategies to develop the diverse talent pipeline, so
it's sustainable throughout the future. In fact, the committee
staff report recognized several SIFMA member company
initiatives to encourage upward mobility for diverse
individuals, including development opportunities to highlight
business' strategic and financial skills to create pathways for
return to the workforce and identify new ways to promote more
diverse individuals within their companies.
Many SIFMA D&I Council members report to us that they tied
their diversity and inclusion efforts to their performance
results and compensation plans. Firms have worked to ensure
hiring interviews or objective by developing best practices to
reduce bias in the interview process and require that interview
panels include minorities and women.
Many have also developed special internship programs to
further enhance their hiring diversity, some of which
specifically target high-school students on track to be the
first in their families to attend college. These recruitment
efforts include leadership summits tailored to women, Latino,
LGBTQ, and HBCU students.
In their efforts to recruit mid-level candidates, many
firms work with affinity organizations and community groups
that bring together historically overlooked communities. Firms
have developed ``return to work'' programs to attract
predominantly female talent back into the workplace after a
career break, with programming that includes group coaching,
mentoring, and other upskilling.
The strides members have made to build diverse talent
pipelines, however, can only be sustained by simultaneously
facilitating an inclusive culture of opportunities for diverse
staff. Firms have established advancement initiatives to
increase female and minority representation in senior
leadership by providing ongoing development opportunities to
strengthen their business, strategic, and financial skills.
And many firms incorporate a discussion of diversity in
their succession planning process. Sponsorship is another
important aspect of retaining and promoting diversity. Veterans
have always been of great importance to our members. Some of
our members have undertaken ambitious initiatives to increase
their hiring of our country's veterans.
Again, I want to commend the work of this subcommittee, and
I commit to work with you as the securities industry invests in
the business of diversity. Thank you, and I look forward to
answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Bentsen can be found on page
49 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you very much.
Ms. Mercer, you will have 5 minutes to present your oral
testimony.
STATEMENT OF NAOMI MERCER, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, DIVERSITY,
EQUITY, AND INCLUSION, AMERICAN BANKERS ASSOCIATION (ABA)
Ms. Mercer. Chairwoman Beatty, Ranking Member Wagner, and
members of the subcommittee, my name is Naomi Mercer and I am
the senior vice president of diversity, equity, and inclusion
at the American Bankers Association. I appreciate the
opportunity to present ABA's views on the issues of diversity,
equity, and inclusion, an issue that I have spent many years
advancing.
Let me start by commending the subcommittee on the work you
have done to draw attention to these important issues and on
the release of your recent diversity report. We are very
appreciative of the time that the committee staff has taken to
meet with ABA and many of our member institutions to discuss
their diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives.
ABA is the voice of the nation's $18 trillion banking
industry, which is comprised of small, midsized, regional, and
large banks that together employ more than 2 million people. I
joined ABA last year, after a 25-year career in the United
States Army, where my responsibilities included overseeing the
Army's Gender Integration and Religious Accommodation Program.
I also served as an assistant professor at the United
States Military Academy. I was teaching composition and
literature at West Point, but my real mission was to develop
cadets into leaders of character, with critical thinking skills
and, more importantly, empathy. My students were predominantly
white, male, and from privileged backgrounds, who needed the
skills to understand and respect the perspectives of their
soldiers with more diverse identities and backgrounds.
It was my first experience teaching diversity, equity, and
inclusion. After my retirement from the Army, ABA hired me to
this position, working with our member banks to help them
address many of the same diversity, equity, and inclusion
(DE&I) issues we face in the military.
The banking industry firmly believes in the value of
diversity, equity, and inclusion. A diverse workforce and
vendor channel is critical to the success of individual banks
being able to meet the needs of a diverse set of communities
and customers across the nation. In recent years, ABA has
encouraged its member banks to review their diversity, equity,
and inclusion programs, while providing a range of resources
and services to help banks address DE&I issues.
The industry has made progress in recent years to diversify
its talent pool and leadership and to meet the needs of
customers from all walks of life. Many banks have robust DE&I
programs and have implemented leading practices, such as
employee resource groups, and leadership and formal mentoring
programs to advance women, people of color, and other
underrepresented groups, and supply our diversity programs.
As the subcommittee report clearly notes, the industry also
still has much work to do. Today, banks of all sizes are
engaged in a range of initiatives to embrace diversity, equity,
and inclusion, not just because it's the right thing to do, but
because it's good for business. ABA recognizes that DE&I
efforts must be tailored to individual organizations and factor
in the bank's existing culture, the bank's needs for the
present and the future, and steps the bank must take to achieve
an inclusive environment.
The banking industry has made progress in diversity,
equity, and inclusion, but challenges remain, as the banking
industry, like many other business sectors, is most diverse
among employees below the senior leadership and middle-
management areas.
ABA is committed to providing leadership for our banks by
creating the salient research on leading practices, such as
using diverse and representative hiring and promotion slates,
helping banks to expand their networks when searching for
directors and C-Suite executives, teaching banks to prime
interview and promotion review to reduce unconscious bias, and
many more to help our banks build and implement strategies for
DE&I.
Cultural change within an organization is incremental and
change across an entire industry can be frustratingly slow. ABA
and our member banks stand ready to work with the subcommittee
to advance diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Thank you for the opportunity to share ABA's efforts to
help the banking industry address these important issues. I am
happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Mercer can be found on page
102 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you.
Ms. Elhalaby, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF RAWAN ELHALABY, SENIOR ECONOMIC EQUITY PROGRAM
MANAGER, THE GREENLINING INSTITUTE
Ms. Elhalaby. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty, Ranking Member
Wagner, and members of the Subcommittee on Diversity and
Inclusion for holding this hearing and for inviting the
Greenlining Institute to testify.
My name is Rawan Elhalaby, and I am a proud San Diegan and
Palestinian-American. I am the economic equity senior program
manager at the Greenlining Institute and I lead our research on
the financial services sector. The Greenlining Institute is a
State and national policy and research organization that
envisions the nation where communities of color thrive, and a
person's race is never a barrier to economic opportunity.
The name of my institution comes from the antidote to the
discriminatory practice of redlining. For anyone unfamiliar
with the history of redlining, it was the public and private
practice of drawing literal red lines around non-white
neighbors on a map to signify that they were not suitable areas
for banks or insurance companies to do business.
Thanks to the Fair Housing Act and other civil rights laws,
redlining is banned today. Yet, we can still see its lingering
effects through society, with the lower earning potential of
people of color, inferior treatment of minority small-business
owners by banks, people of color routinely denied home loans at
a higher rate than their white counterparts, and a widening
racial wealth gap.
In the last 40 years, the wealth of the median Black family
has decreased by 50 percent, while the wealth of the median
white family has increased by 33 percent. The Greenlining
Institute has over 25 years of experience analyzing diversity
at all levels of government, higher education, philanthropic
foundations, and banks.
At Greenlining, we understand that people solve the
problems they see. One of the most successful examples of
transparency legislation is the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act
(HMDA). HMDA requires banks to disclose data on their lending
by race and ethnicity and we use this data to identify
potential discriminatory patterns. While HMDA does not enforce
lending quotas or prohibit any particular activities, it does
make banks take responsibility for lending or not lending to
specific communities.
Greenlining also tracks corporate contracting with diverse
businesses or supplier diversity. California has an active,
groundbreaking, supplier diversity, transparency effort,
including the California Public Utilities Commission's General
Order 156. This order encourages utility companies to contract
with minority women and disabled veteran-owned businesses and
requires annual reporting of their procurement and outreach
policies.
In 2019, I authored a study on the boards of directors of
the 10 largest banks in California. I found out, on average,
people of color made up 30 percent of bank board composition,
even though over 67 percent of California's population are
people of color. These figures have barely changed since we
analyzed bank boards in 2012, and again in 2017, showing that
banks have not made sufficient progress on recruiting people of
color to their boards.
To complete our bank research, Greenlining requests data
from national institutions that operate in California and uses
this data to track and rank these companies. We have seen in
our work that financial institutions and other companies often
make claims to prioritize diversity and inclusion, but data
reveals the action or lack thereof behind these buzzwords.
Data allows Greenlining to benchmark the banking industry's
goal of increasing the D&I in critical areas. Unfortunately, we
experienced substantial difficulty in receiving data broken
down by race and ethnicity. Banks have inconsistent diversity
data collection and reporting practices and generally, under-
resource internal teams tasked with responding to our data
requests.
Another driving factor is that banks are not required by
law to provide the race data that is most meaningful to us. The
CRA and other color-blind civil rights laws, while immensely
impactful, are not sufficient on their own for eliminating
discrimination in the financial services sector. Race-conscious
regulations are needed to ensure financial inclusion.
Greenlining urges Congress to expand existing legislation
that requires government agencies and private institutions to
disclose data on diversity and inclusion practices. One example
is Section 342 of the Dodd-Frank Act, which created Offices of
Minority and Women Inclusion (OMWIs) to ensure policymakers and
regulators better reflect, understand, and promote job creation
in minority communities.
Data transparency on D&I helps agencies identify where
policy and practice improvements should be made. The rise of
the non-bank financial technology or fintech lenders is one
largely unregulated area, where improvements in D&I can be
made: 1.6 percent of the tech industry is Latino; and less than
1 percent is Black, and without increased transparency, these
figures may stay static for too long.
To conclude, I applaud the Committee on Financial Services
for prioritizing diversity and inclusion with the creation of
this subcommittee. And I thank you again for the opportunity to
testify today and highlight our work. The Greenlining Institute
looks forward to working with you to shed light on the
diversity and inclusion practices of the nation's banks. As I
hope my testimony has demonstrated, transparency brings
sunshine to essential parts of the financial sector and we need
more of it.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Elhalaby can be found on
page 54 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you.
Mr. Vaughan, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF JOSEPH M. VAUGHAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CORPORATE
DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION FORUM
Mr. Vaughan. Thank you. Chairwoman Beatty, Ranking Member
Wagner, and distinguished members of this subcommittee, thank
you for the opportunity to share the perspectives of the
Corporate Diversity and Inclusion Forum regarding the
importance of diversity and inclusion performance in the
financial services sector.
Throughout the 116th Congress, the House Financial Services
Committee has worked to illuminate the correlation between
greater diversity and inclusion performance and the long-term
economic stability, safety, and soundness of the financial
services sector. In fact, witnesses before the committee have
incontrovertibly established the economic benefit of diversity
and inclusion performance to the United States' economy.
The Corporate Diversity and Inclusion Forum works to
educate market participants, policymakers, and the public
regarding the intersectionality of greater diversity and
inclusion performance in the sector and the goals of Federal,
State, and local policymakers. We believe greater diversity and
inclusion performance enhances profitability and is integral to
addressing the persistent wealth gap in diverse urban and rural
communities. In fact, McKinsey & Company recently estimated the
U.S. economy will see between a $1 trillion and $1.5 trillion
decline in consumption and investment between 2019 and 2028,
due to the racial wealth gap yielding a 4 to 6 percent decline
of the GDP in 2028.
In recent years, the financial services sector has made
significant strides to embrace the evolving demographic shifts
in the U.S. workforce and consumer base. Countless financial
services firms have integrated diversity and inclusion
practices into their business enterprise. Diversity councils,
employee resource groups, enhancements to more robust hiring,
recruitment and retention policies, and the hiring of chief
diversity officers are just a few examples of the critical
practices being replicated across the sector.
While these efforts are laudable, it is reasonable to
question whether efforts to realign business practices to more
inclusive goals are sustainable and permanent. The committee's
Banking Diversity Data Report rightly highlights key
performance improvements among covered institutions, such as a
broad commitment to achieve pay equity and, in some cases,
linking diversity and inclusion results to performance. Those
improvements are tempered by persistent shortcomings enumerated
in the analysis, such as a muted commitment to supplier
diversity and poor representation of women and minorities in
senior leadership ranks and on corporate boards of directors.
The report's findings also identify structural challenges
the industry faces in broadening the talent acquisition
pipeline. The CDIF strongly encourages the financial services
firms to make a concerted effort to engage diverse colleges and
universities in the development of academic curricula, which
produce talented graduates, well-suited to adapt to the rigors
of the industry. Further, the industry must endeavor to visit
college campuses and promote their goals and values, if we are
to assuage perceptions that diverse talent is undervalued,
unwelcome, and marginalized in the sector.
These outreach efforts are further enhanced by embracing
STEM education and financial literacy in K-12 education as
well. While the report's findings represent a current snapshot
of large bank performance, it's critically important to
recognize the data collection, data aggregation, and reporting
process were implemented through a collaborative and
constructive engagement between the committee's Majority and
covered institutions.
Similarly, pursuant to Section 342 of the Dodd-Frank Act,
the Directors of the Offices of the Minority and Women
Inclusion have endeavored to develop an honest, collaborative,
and transparent engagement with covered entities through a
series of roundtables, conferences, and forums. The OMWI
Directors have engaged market participants across the U.S.,
sought strategic advice in the development of the final joint
standards, which were published in 2015, and are integral to
developing a comprehensive assessment of D&I performance.
Further, the OMWI Directors have taken a constructive
approach in the development of the voluntary, self-assessment
process, consistent with the key recommendations of the
industry, such as a self-reporting process outside of
prudential examinations, and the aggregation of D&I performance
data from covered entities.
The U.S. economy has experienced nearly a decade of
expansionary growth that has served as a catalyst in the
implementation of sound diversity and inclusion best practices.
Although our workforce is enjoying near full employment, too
many diverse urban and rural communities have not benefitted
fully from the expertise and knowledge of the financial
services sector.
The Great Recession of 2008 yielded higher attrition rates
in the sector for women and under-represented minorities. And
my fear is the gains identified in the Banking Diversity Data
Report will be lost during a future economic downturn. Greater
transparency and disclosure will assuage that potential outcome
and help to enshrine the ongoing commitment to D&I in this
sector.
Thanks again for the committee's consideration, and I look
forward to answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Vaughan can be found on page
113 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you.
Ms. Barry, you now have 5 minutes to present oral testimony
on your written presentation.
STATEMENT OF SUBHA BARRY, PRESIDENT, WORKING MOTHER MEDIA
Ms. Barry. Honored members of the subcommittee, I thank you
for inviting me today.
By way of added background, I spent 26 years of my career
in financial services at some of our nation's largest
institutions: 20 years in frontline trading, sales, and
business development roles; and 6 years as a global chief
diversity officer. I personally experienced the bias that women
and people of color face in that industry, but I also
experienced the great opportunities and credibility that came
with being successful.
As the president of Working Mother Media, we are a go-to
resource for Fortune 1,000 companies, nonprofits, and
governmental organizations. And we specialize in issues of
DE&I, women and women of color, and parenting and caregiving.
And we annually produce an inclusion index that assesses the
diversity and inclusion best practices and outcomes. It is in
this capacity that I share my comments with you.
The report that the committee staff prepared identified
three barriers to achieving diversity and inclusion results.
And I will be happy to sort of illustrate some of the ways in
which companies are overcoming those challenges. But there are
two additional barriers that need to be acknowledged and
addressed.
One is a bias in talent development. Organizations must
acknowledge and focus on the bias that exists in their talent
decision-making systems and processes. And why do we say 44
financial institution's populations demographically match that
of the U.S. population? Very few of them are diverse at the
top, whether it's the board, the CEO, or the C-Suite.
And the lack of mechanisms that measure and titrate, for
example, how feedback is given, or support is given and how
that's received by underrepresented minority groups create gaps
that become chasms. Recent gender gap research shows that women
are one-third less likely to realize what relationship capital
is and the importance of cultivating and monetizing it. Women
and people of color aren't coached or made aware that building
and leveraging relationships in your early career is critical,
so they start out on their backs here.
This also shows up in the lack of sponsorship for women and
people of color. With 73 percent of white women and 83 percent
of multicultural women citing the lack of sponsors as the main
reason they haven't gotten into critical profit-and-loss roles.
And remember, a 2015 Standard and Poor's 500 analysis found
that 90 percent of new CEOs were promoted or hired from line
roles with profit and loss responsibility. You can do the math.
The second one is the lack of accountability for making
progress. There are two aspects to this. One, holding companies
accountable for transparently providing D&I data and metrics,
both internally and externally. And two, holding the CEOs and
their leadership teams accountable for the results they produce
that tie to the above metrics.
So, structured programs need to be created. Clear-cut
accountability metrics need to be normalized across geography
and industry. We say diversity is critical to businesses, but
we don't measure or compensate enough on diversity and
inclusion performance. For example, 75 percent of all the
inclusion index companies say they hold managers accountable
for D&I results, but only 35 percent of them link compensation
to D&I results. And only 46 percent set new numeric goals for
diversity representation, and 58 percent set percentage goals.
Again, you do the math.
Our inclusion index provides tools to hold organizations
and leaders accountable. It measures demographics, best
practices and talent processes, and culture and leadership
accountability, and doing this annually allows companies to
mark progress and tweak their strategy. So, intentions and
words must translate into actions and consequences.
So, what do we recommend? Be transparent about data. Build
accountability from the top. Establish development programs for
women and underrepresented minorities. Establish new work
norms. Challenge existing norms. Reframe how work gets done.
And leverage your employee resource groups for marketplace
impact.
In summary, while some organizations are proactively
addressing D&I, there is much more work to be done, especially
in the banking sector. The formula is straightforward, but the
execution is key. And accountability creates the real change.
I thank you, and I'm happy to answer any questions that the
committee may have.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Barry can be found on page
38 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you.
And I now recognize Dr. Greenfield for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF GAIL GREENFIELD, SENIOR PRINCIPAL, WORKFORCE
STRATEGY AND ANALYTICS, MERCER
Ms. Greenfield. Members of the subcommittee, thank you for
the opportunity to share my views on this important topic.
My name is Gail Greenfield, and I'm a senior principal at
Mercer, a consulting firm and Marsh & McLennan business. I work
with clients to help them create more diverse and inclusive
workforces. My comments today will focus on evidence gathered
through Mercer research and consulting assignments, as well as
research conducted by others.
Before I speak about this evidence, I want to discuss the
business case for diversity and inclusion. The business case is
clear. An extensive body of trust research has demonstrated the
value of a diverse and inclusive workforce. Organizations
interested in improving their financial performance, better
leveraging their talent, and increasing innovation need to make
diversity and inclusion a priority.
In developing a diversity and inclusion strategy, Mercer
recommends focus on four key measures. The first is
representation. Based on recent research conducted by Mercer on
behalf of financial institutions, we find that female
representation in the industry is 44 percent. The highest
representation is at the staff level, which is roughly two-
thirds female. Representation drops below 40 percent at the
professional and manager levels, and fewer than 1 in 4
executives are women.
People of color collectively make up 32 percent of the
overall industry workforce, with representation dropping to
one-quarter at the manager level, and 14 percent at the
executive level.
The second measure is talent flows. Based on hiring,
promotion, and turnover trends, how is a representation in the
industry expected to change over the next decade? Based on
Mercer's research, we expect a 3-percentage point increase in
the representation of women at the manager level and above over
the next decade. The projected increase is larger for people of
color, where we expect an 11-percentage point increase in
representation at the manager level and above.
Our research further revealed that for women in the
industry, retention is an area of strength, while hiring is an
area of strength for people of color. For both women and people
of color, the key lever to further increase the representation
at senior levels is to ensure they're being promoted at
comparable rates to their male and white counterparts.
The third measure is employee experience. There's limited
information on the perceptions of those employed in the
financial services industry; however, we can glean insights
from a study Mercer conducted on behalf of the Financial
Services Pipeline Initiative. The study included a survey of
10,000 individuals to learn about the experiences and
perceptions of Hispanics and Latinos and Blacks and African
Americans in the financial services industry in Chicago. One
key finding is that people in these groups are less likely than
whites to feel there is a racially and ethnically diverse mix
of role models in their organizations and are less likely to
perceive a leadership commitment to diversity and inclusion.
The last measure is pay equity. PayScale recently released
a report revealing that the raw gender pay gap in the finance
and insurance industry is $0.26, with women in the industry
earning $0.74 for each dollar earned by men. After accounting
for legitimate compensable factors, the pay gap falls to $0.03.
I refer to this figure as the unexplained pay gap.
Mercer also compiles information on pay gaps. Among the
financial services companies for whom Mercer conducts pay
equity assessments, we find the unexplained gender pay gap is
less than $0.01. Unexplained pay gaps are less than $0.01 for
Blacks and African Americans and for Hispanics and Latinos. We
find a positive pay gap for Asians of slightly more than $0.01.
These studies reveal that pay gaps are driven mainly by
compensable factors.
Mercer's experience indicates that the single most
important factor in determining an employee's pay is their
career level. Thus, closing raw pay gaps will require
organizations to ensure women and people of color gain access
to more senior, higher-paying roles. I caution organizations,
however, not to be deceived into thinking a small, unexplained
pay gap does not deserve attention. A back-of-the-envelope
calculation suggests a $0.01 unexplained pay gap translates
into lost wages for women in the U.S. of $500 million each
week.
Thank you for this opportunity. I hope my remarks today
have provided evidence-based strategies for what financial
services companies can do to advance diversity and inclusion. I
look forward to answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Greenfield can be found on
page 93 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you very much. Before I recognize
myself for 5 minutes, let me say thank you to all of the
panelists, and let me also say, because of the large number of
panelists, we are going to ask you to be brief and concise so
everyone can get through asking each of you or most of you a
question. And each of you will, as well as the Members, have an
opportunity to follow up in writing.
And now, I recognize myself for 5 minutes for questions. My
first question is for Dr. Mercer, Dr. Greenfield, and Mr.
Vaughan. In a review of the business case for diversity, the
president of the National Minority Supplier Development Council
testified that diverse supply chains are better equipped to
address consumer preferences in a direct way. She also added
that diverse firms tend to hire diverse workers at a much
higher rate.
With that, we found that some of the banks did not even
track their spending with diverse firms. Would you recommend
that banks have a public database on their website to increase
transparency? That can be a yes or a no. How can organizations
continue to work with other organizations, like the U.S.
Chamber of Commerce or LGBTQ or the National Veterans Supplier
Diversity? Dr. Mercer?
Ms. Mercer. Chairwoman Beatty, we encourage our banks to
have supplier diversity and we also encourage them to
collaborate with a variety--
Chairwoman Beatty. Okay. Transparency on their website, yes
or no?
Ms. Mercer. Yes, because we are--
Chairwoman Beatty. Mr. Vaughan, transparency on their
website, yes or no?
Mr. Vaughan. Absolutely.
Chairwoman Beatty. Ms. Barry, yes or no?
Ms. Barry. Absolutely.
Chairwoman Beatty. Dr. Greenfield?
Ms. Greenfield. I'd like to see that at the discretion of
the particular organization.
Chairwoman Beatty. Mr. Bentsen?
Mr. Bentsen. I think we would leave that up to the firms. I
think a lot of firms do that.
Chairwoman Beatty. Okay. Ms. Elhalaby?
Ms. Elhalaby. Yes, definitely.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you very much. The next question
deals with Section 342 of the Dodd-Frank Act, which several of
you have mentioned, and which we know established OMWIs. And
they charged them with increasing inclusion and diversity with
their workforce. They charged them with increasing
participation of women in minority-owned businesses in their
agency, and also, to assess diversity policies and practices of
the industry that they regulate. Mr. Vaughan, how important is
the data collection process in measuring D&I? I believe it's
difficult to measure what we don't track.
Mr. Vaughan. It is absolutely critical, whether you are
looking at supplier diversity or talent acquisition, and the
makeup of boards or leaderships teams. Disclosure certainly, as
one of my fellow witnesses has said, brings transparency and
increases performance. What gets examined and measured gets
done.
Chairwoman Beatty. We also know that, for example, the FDIC
and the OCC did it on a voluntary basis and their assessments
were as low as 16 percent and 9 percent. Mr. Bentsen and Dr.
Mercer, why do you believe the response rates from your members
to regulate are so low?
Mr. Bentsen. We do have a number of members who tell us
that they respond to it. Our members interpret the statute as
actually being a discretion, not a mandate. And we do know we
have members who raise concerns because while EEOC, which all
members have to supply, has FOIA protection, 342 data may not
have FOIA protection, and firms are concerned about
confidentiality risks that would come from that.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you. The president of the National
Minority Supplier Development Council testified in one of our
hearings that diverse supply chains are better-equipped to
address consumer presences in a direct way. Despite this,
review of the bank supplier diversity members from the
subcommittee still show that not all of our nation's largest
banks track this data or track their business partnerships with
diverse asset management, something you're going to hear a lot
about in looking at that. Mrs. Barry, can you tell us why you
think some banks do not track their diverse supplier and how
much they spend? And why banks who handle tens of hundreds of
billions of dollars in assets do not have or do not track their
partnerships with diverse managers? And, Ms. Greenfield, I will
ask you that same thing.
Ms. Barry. I believe that the banks are challenged by that
data, because the data doesn't look good, and when it doesn't
look good, they're not willing to share that data. It's as
simple as that. But the second piece is where they gather that
data. One of the things that the best practicing banks are
doing is they are requiring their diverse suppliers or all of
their suppliers to also monitor their own diverse sub-suppliers
and subcontractors.
Chairwoman Beatty. To anyone, why do you think they don't
have diverse asset managers? We now know through our studies
that there are many minority diverse asset managers who can do
it, but we are finding out that was an ah-ha moment for many of
the banks. Why? Anyone?
Mr. Vaughan. It is why our diversity still remains not a
top-line priority for the organizations.
Chairwoman Beatty. Okay.
Mr. Vaughan. Once they make the commitment, they will
change the results.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you. And my time is up.
I now recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee, my
colleague, Ranking Member Wagner, for 5 minutes of questioning.
Mrs. Wagner. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Dr. Greenfield, according to your testimony, Mercer's point
of view is that workforce diversity is an outcome that
organizations ought to actively manage and that an
organization's diversity and inclusion strategy is more likely
to be effective if it is evidence-based. How do you advise
companies to increase diversity and inclusion within their
ranks?
Ms. Greenfield. First and foremost, we tell them to look at
their own data. Obviously, benchmarks can be very useful, but
ultimately, they need to look at their own data. So that is
what we work with our organizations to do. What we work with
our clients to do is to help them look at their own data, and
understand where they stand relative to themselve, essentially,
an internal benchmark. So, for example, we have them look at
things like promotion rates for women versus men, for whites
versus people of color, hire rates, turnover rates, and look to
see where there are gaps.
And where there are gaps, we help them understand what is
driving those gaps. So, for example, if we find in an
organization that turnover is an issue for people of color,
then we would work with them to understand, well, what are the
drivers of turnover in the organization? Are there particular
experiences that lead to retention or increase the likelihood
of quitting and how do those particularly relate to people of
color?
So it is all about understanding your own data. And I will
say, there is no one-size-fits-all approach. What works for one
organization may not work for others.
Mrs. Wagner. Dr. Greenfield, in your testimony, you state
that companies should identify the cultural dynamics that may
be posing a risk to their organization's culture of inclusion.
Could you elaborate on these dynamics, because I do believe
that the changes--obviously, supportive leadership from the
very top and changing that corporate culture is what is key.
Could you please elaborate?
Ms. Greenfield. I would completely agree that you can try
and build diversity using a variety of different policies and
practices, but if you don't have an inclusive culture, then it
is going to be very difficult to retain women and people of
color in an organization where they don't feel welcome and they
don't feel supported.
So one of the things that we encourage our clients to do is
to make sure they understand that employee experience, that
they hear the voices of their employees. Most notably, we have
organizations do their own surveys. Many organizations do
engagement surveys and we are recommending that they add to
their engagement surveys questions that are specifically around
diversity and inclusion and the experience of different people.
Asking, for example, is there a good mix of role models in
the organization that I can look up to? Do I have a sponsor in
the organization, who is making me more visible to the rest of
the organization? Do I feel like I have an understanding of the
career path available to me? Do I feel like I have fair access
to opportunities?
It's extremely important to hear directly from employees to
understand how their experiences are differing based on whether
it is gender or--
Mrs. Wagner. Are those anonymous and at all levels of
employee?
Ms. Greenfield. Those are generally anonymous, yes. It is
very rare to have something that is not. Of course, this would
be anonymous. And the results are generally not reported to the
manager, unless they have a certain number of responses or more
and it is aggregated.
Mrs. Wagner. Moving on, obviously, it is very clear that
diversity and inclusion are two distinct, but equally
important, factors with respect to hiring and retaining a
diverse workforce. And how employees, as you have elaborated,
perceive their experience in the workplace. According to
Mercer's research, what are some of the factors that affect
whether a company is able to retain a diverse workforce and
what strategies have you seen as effective for creating a more
inclusive workplace, outside of surveys and such regarding--
Ms. Greenfield. Yes, and I will say that there is no one
response to that, because when we do turnover analyses for
organizations, we find different results for different
organizations. But some of the things that we see that are a
common theme are things like supervision, the relationship
between an individual and their supervisor. Things like, for
example, am I supervised by someone of the same race or
ethnicity? Someone of the same gender or a different gender? I
would like to be able to say that there is one set of best
practices and one set of drivers, but that is just not the
case.
Mrs. Wagner. I am running out of time. Mr. Bentsen, I think
that all of the members of this subcommittee can agree that an
internal professional development program benefits the
employee, the employer, and the general corporate culture that
we have been talking about here. Lawful hiring practices are of
critical importance in getting qualified employees who
represent an increasingly diverse America.
But mentorship and promotion of qualified, diverse
candidates is perhaps even more important. Can you speak to
some of the mentoring practices of your member firms?
Mr. Bentsen. Absolutely, Congresswoman. That is a very good
point because on the one hand, recruitment is great, but you
invest in that employee and you want that employee to be there
for the long term. So if you are not having retention rates at
the same rate, then you are not getting, effectively, a return
on your investment, right?
Mrs. Wagner. Yes.
Mr. Bentsen. And so, firms report to us that they are and,
in fact, we work with our firms through our various conferences
developing different tools, such as mentoring programs, such as
affinity groups and the like to work on retention.
Mrs. Wagner. My time has expired. I would love it, Mr.
Bentsen, if you would elaborate some more about your member
firms in writing.
Mr. Bentsen. Absolutely.
Mrs. Wagner. And I yield back to the Chair.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you.
The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Lawson, is now recognized
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Lawson. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
And I welcome all of you to the committee. This question, I
think, will go to Dr. Mercer, and anyone else who would care to
comment on it. The American Bankers Association (ABA) notes in
its testimony that 140 banks are led by racially and ethnically
diverse leadership. What challenges do banks face in achieving
greater diversity at the leadership level?
Ms. Mercer. Congressman, the challenges that the banks are
facing at the leadership level is to have qualified people that
they can bring in, but it is a matter of expanding their
networks to find the people who are qualified to bring into
those leadership positions.
Ms. Barry. If I could add to that?
Mr. Lawson. Yes.
Ms. Barry. The important thing to note is that you need to
look at the pipelines. What is the pipeline to the CEO's job?
If 90 percent of the people who get promoted to CEOs have
profit-and-loss management experience, and when there is a very
small percentage of women who actually get that experience
along the way in their careers, they essentially don't even
enter that pipeline. So the important thing is right at the
get-go in their early careers, women and underrepresented
minorities need to be shown and taught what those profit-and-
loss roles are. How they can opt into those roles in early
career and get that experience early so that they are actually
in line to be in that pipeline?
Mr. Lawson. Mr. Vaughan, go ahead?
Mr. Vaughan. I would add that many financial services firms
have only deployed their diversity inclusion programs in the
last 5 years. In fact, I think two-thirds of the S&P 500
companies who have chief diversity officers (CDOs) have only
hired those CDOs in the last 5 years. And we have to recognize
it is going to take time to really build the mechanisms and
develop the talents and the candidates who will eventually be
the leadership of the future generation of the industry.
Mr. Lawson. Mr. Bentsen, did you want to respond?
Mr. Bentsen. Again, I think that these are issues that the
firms are focusing on and need to focus on. And I would note
that members report to us in the surveys. And we have been
doing these surveys for over 2 decades now, across a broad
range of the industry. Our members are not just the big banks,
they are broker-dealers and asset managers of all different
sizes all over the country.
But what they report to us is where they are today is not--
the majority view themselves at an intermediate stage and some,
to Mr. Vaughan's comments, are at the beginning stage. Very
few, if any, are saying they have mastered this issue. And so,
this is very much a work in progress.
Mr. Lawson. Okay. And I am going to try to get this next
question in. Banks had identified challenges in hiring a
diverse staff, including reports that there is too much
competition in and around the small field of qualified
minorities, STEM, and financial graduates.
According to the 2017 GAO report, financial services firms
focus on recruiting and hiring from elite universities as a
source of their diversity recruiting practice. What are some of
the reasons why the institutions do not recruit from public
universities and Historically Black Colleges and Universities
(HBCUs), which provide rigorous academic support to minority
students pursuing STEM and financial degrees, which would
vastly expand the pool of qualified candidates? And everyone
can comment. I have about 49 seconds, but I would like for you
all to comment on that.
Mr. Bentsen. The vast majority of our member firms who
participate in our surveys report that they are actually are
recruiting from HCBUs and other so-called non-elite
universities. And, again, the breadth of our membership
recruits from across the college/university sector in the
United States.
Mr. Vaughan. I would just state that there is a persistent
perception that those educational curriculums are not rigorous
and that there needs to be improvements in terms of the
educational curriculum, and that the industry should be out
promoting those helping to replicate those programs at HBCUs
and rural community colleges as well.
Ms. Barry. There are two very specific examples I will call
out. A company like Microsoft is creating internships and
mentoring as early as elementary and middle school to foster
that career interest and focus on building those analytical
skills early. And Bloomberg has been one of the leaders in
looking at top 10 percent of the students, across a wide
variety of institutions, not just the elite ones.
So, there are companies that are actually doing this well,
and that model needs to be adopted across-the-board.
Mr. Lawson. My time has expired, and I yield back. But I
have a lot of questions in that area.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you. The gentleman's time is up.
The gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Budd, is recognized
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Budd. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Ms. Elhalaby, thank you for being here, and for your time
this morning. I think we can all agree that diversity and
inclusion efforts in the financial services sector are very
desirable goals. And as we have heard this morning, the
financial services industry is proactively seeking to improve
the diversity of their workforce, not only because it is the
right thing to do, but because a lot of studies have shown that
it is a highly effective way to increase innovation and
profitability, things we can all agree on.
Now, there's more work to be done, but it is encouraging to
see that large banks and financial institutions are really
taking this mission more seriously. However, I am concerned
that we can't see the forest through the trees here, and that
we are starting to mandate the private sector of one particular
industry to self-report. And it may not meaningfully lead to a
more diverse and inclusive workforce.
So my question for you is, what other industries, such as
tech or energy, healthcare, telecom, or others have a mandate
or requirement to conduct a self-assessment and provide the
results of their D&I report to their regulator?
Ms. Elhalaby. Thank you. We have seen in California,
specifically, that the public utilities industry, so energy,
water, telecommunications--
Mr. Budd. Can you give an exception outside of California?
Ms. Elhalaby. My expertise lies specifically there, so I
would not be able to. Thank you.
Mr. Budd. So, it is some number approaching zero that is
outside of California, other industries, is what I am seeing.
Dr. Mercer, a question for you, in all of the discussions
surrounding diversity and inclusion, sometimes there are
categories of identities that are overlooked. For example,
being of a minority religion in the United States or being of a
different socioeconomic background than most of your colleagues
is another form of diversity. So what do you think about
aspects of diversity that are not discussed as much, such as
religious diversity or socioeconomic diversity or political.
Let's say that you are a Republican in San Francisco. We
mentioned California earlier. Are these things as important as
gender and ethnic and racial diversity?
Ms. Mercer. Absolutely. DE&I programs need to be tailored
to the environment and the organization in which they are going
to function. And we have a lot of small community banks that
are in racially and ethnically homogenous communities. So we
encourage them because the other limitations in their community
to consider other avenues of getting diversity of thought into
their leadership, into their bank, and on their boards of
directors.
Mr. Budd. Studies are showing that this is the right thing
to do. Do we really need to do regulation for this? Because it
is good for business to be more diverse. It is the right thing.
Ms. Mercer. It is absolutely the right thing to do
diversity, equity, and inclusion. It is good for business and
there is a strong moral case for it. We encourage our member
banks to self-report for the OMWI self-assessment and we had a
webinar to that effect to encourage our banks to do so.
But we also realize that in diversity, equity, and
inclusion, accountability is very important, but it should be
internally motivated. We think that our banks do gather that
information; they may just not release it publicly.
Mr. Budd. Understood. Thank you very much.
Mr. Bentsen, I am sure you know that the Human Rights
Campaign (HRC) produces an annual list of the most diverse
companies to work for. Their 2019 iteration included 33 of the
44 banks that the chairwoman's report lists. Why do you think
the HRC included so many banks on this year's list?
Mr. Bentsen. Congressman, I am not familiar with that
specific report, but this is something again that our members
report to us and this is a priority. As I said, this is a
priority for my board of directors and that represents a broad,
cross-section of the securities industry. So I think to your
earlier questions, and I think Dr. Mercer got into this, many
firms take a very broad view of diversity, and that is driven
to a large extent by the pool of talent from which they are
recruiting, and it's also driven by the pool or community of
the clients which they are serving. And so, I think that is how
many firms determine how they look at diversity.
Ms. Barry. There is one additional aspect to that and the
fact that with LGBTQ persons, and persons with disabilities,
there is an intersectionality there that cuts across gender and
race, and very often, that is something companies are willing
to step up and do.
Mr. Budd. Thank you. I just want to summarize. It seems
like the financial services industry is making progress without
government intervention. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you. The gentlewoman from
California, the Honorable Maxine Waters, the Chair of the full
Financial Services Committee, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much, Chairwoman Beatty.
Again, I would like to compliment you on the work that you've
done to get this report that you are releasing today to the
public. And I am so pleased about the witnesses that you have
gotten here to testify today.
We just released this groundbreaking report, showing the
real numbers about diversity at America's largest banks, as you
know. That is what we have been talking about. I understand
that SIFMA also has a biennial report on its member firms,
including banks, but it is not publicly released. I want to ask
my friend, Ken Bentsen--it's good to see you--do you think that
banks and other financial services firms should be required to
publicly release their diversity and inclusion data? Should
banks be more accountable to shareholders, regulators, and the
public for their diversity and inclusion efforts?
Mr. Bentsen. First, if I might, with respect to our report,
it is a tool, like our other benchmarking surveys that we do
with our members, and there is a lot of confidential
information the firms share that they wouldn't necessarily
share with their competitors but they can learn from, and
that's why our report has nondisclosure agreements and why we
are not able to share it publicly.
In terms of what firms should or whether firms should be
mandated or not, again, many of our firms do share such
information publicly. Others choose not to because of concerns
around privacy, litigation risk, and the like. And I think as
we commented back when 342, your statute as part of Dodd-Frank,
as I recall, was being implemented in 2013, and then
ultimately, I believe, in 2015, we did raise some questions.
And something that I think policymakers should consider in
terms of what data should be public, what data should be
subject to Freedom of Information requests, what data shouldn't
be, similar to what firms require to the EEOC. So these are the
issues that we are talking with our members about, as this
committee is talking about, whether there should be mandates
around disclosure or reporting and disclosure.
Chairwoman Waters. So, do you consider that information on
inclusion and diversity as information that should be kept
private because in some way it reveals something that would
interfere with the bottom line?
Mr. Bentsen. Again, this is something that our firms are
talking about. Some firms do disclose this. Some firms choose
not to because they are concerned either about employee privacy
or proprietary information, and it is something that our firms
are talking about as to whether, where they can--
Chairwoman Waters. But if the information is proprietary
and they do not care to release it, how are we going to get
into a discussion with them about diversity and inclusion? How
can we even approach that subject without information?
Mr. Bentsen. First of all, I think you have gotten into a
discussion with them about it, and I think that is something,
as I mentioned, that we have been working on for 2 decades with
our members and many firms are beginning to report under 342.
Many firms are publicly reporting, and as shown in the data,
and in our case, the survey we do, which represents half of our
industry, half of the securities industry in the U.S., are
taking this very seriously.
Chairwoman Waters. I appreciate that. Ken, did you say we
have been working on this for 2 decades? Is that what you just
said?
Mr. Bentsen. That SIFMA has.
Chairwoman Waters. That is a long time.
Mr. Bentsen. And we have seen growth. But as I said in my
comments, what members report to us is that most members feel
they are in an intermediate stage. No member or very few
members believe they've mastered this issue.
Chairwoman Waters. Well, we are very serious about this
issue and the creation of the subcommittee, which is chaired by
Ms. Beatty, is going to spend significant time on this. What we
know and what we have learned is that discrimination and other
kinds of reasons have caused a lack of opportunity for talented
people who would like to be in the financial services space,
who would like to have opportunity, and it has eluded them
because we have not been able to get to it and no one has paid
attention to it in the ways that we are.
So, I want the word to go forward, and perhaps you can help
with this, to say that we are very serious. Ms. Beatty is
spending significant time on this issue, and we intend to do
everything that we can for transparency in all of the
industries to open up the opportunities that have eluded so
many people of color for so long. So, I thank you for being
here today. And help us communicate.
Thank you. I yield back the balance of my time, Ms. Beatty.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you so much, Chairwoman Waters.
The gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Gonzalez, is recognized for 5
minutes.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Thank you to my friend, Chairwoman
Beatty, for holding this hearing today.
And thank you to the witnesses for your participation. I
would like to submit, for the record, a Wall Street Journal
article from October 26, 2019, entitled, ``Financial Industry
Leads the Way on Diversity and Inclusion.''
Chairwoman Beatty. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Thank you.
One of the reasons I wanted to highlight that article
specifically is it reflects what I have seen in my own home
State of Ohio. I am proud to say that in Ohio, institutions
like Key Bank, Synchrony Bank, Huntington Bank, and Fifth Third
Bank have all made efforts to prioritize diversity and
inclusion initiatives. I met with each of their staffs on this
issue specifically, and it is clear that the priority that has
been set in Ohio is starting to take hold.
There is plenty of work to be done, right? You never quite
get there. But I am proud of my State and I am proud of the
institutions and the efforts that they have made in this arena.
For my first question, I want to start with Mr. Bentsen. I
noticed that there were 7 of your members in total in the top
50 for most diverse companies. What resources, programs, or
practices does SIFMA provide that your firm has utilized to
facilitate a more diverse and inclusive work environment?
Mr. Bentsen. There are many things we do at SIFMA for our
members. I have talked about the biennial benchmarking survey
that we have been doing for over 2 decades, and our Diversity
and Inclusion Council conducts both an annual conference, as
well as periodic roundtables in sharing of best practices.
But more importantly, over the last several years, we have
integrated into all of our various conferences, whether it is
our Legal and Compliance, our Executive Education program that
we do with the Wharton School, our Operations Conference, our
Private Client Wealth Management Conferences, different D&I
components, whether it is in roundtables, break-out sessions,
work sessions, where we are really working with what I would
call the core rank and file of the industry or the people who
are doing the job day-in and day-out.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Anecdotally, it feels like there has
been more of an emphasis in the last couple of years. Does your
experience reflect that or how is the uptake of those programs?
What has the trendline been on that?
Mr. Bentsen. I think this is something that has been on the
uptake since the early 2000s in the industry.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Okay.
Mr. Bentsen. And I can say it is from a point of personal
experience, having been in the industry before I came to
Congress. The emphasis inside the industry is profoundly
different today than it was in the 1980s and early 1990s, when
I was in the business. And I think that is a good thing.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Right.
Mr. Bentsen. But it is something that is a huge commitment,
from the top down.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Good. And then this one is going to
be for anybody who wants to jump in. This past year, the FDIC
issued a proposed rule to formalize the Agency's policy
covering individuals seeking to work in the banking industry
who have been convicted of certain crimes. And, again, I'll
open this up to the panel. Does anyone want to comment on the
FDIC's rule, and should more be done to provide individuals a
second chance, while still protecting the financial interests
of customers? Does anybody want to take that one on? You don't
have to. That's fine.
It's an initiative that is important for me, that I think
would be helpful, frankly. I believe in second chances. I think
mistakes that some of us might make when we are young that are
unrelated to working in the financial sector, I think we should
have some leniency in that regard.
Final question, which I will open again to the panel, how
does the industry leverage benchmarking and information sharing
to enhance diversity and inclusion performance?
Ms. Barry. I can give you some insight into that.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Please.
Ms. Barry. We have five surveys we do. They are all
quantitative surveys, so there is no subjectivity to the
judgment made on it. Best companies for working mothers, which
is around working parents and caregivers; best companies for
women; best companies for multicultural women; and then we do
one for the law firms also; and an inclusion index. Companies
like IBM and J&J have been submitting data for over 30 years,
so they see the value and benefit in extensive submissions,
400-plus questions answered year-in and year-out. So, I can't
emphasize enough the importance of collecting data that is
objective, that takes out any kind of subjective view to it,
and measuring them and reporting it back to them as an
aggregate and then individually.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Thank you. With that, I will yield
back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
The gentlewoman from North Carolina, Ms. Adams, is
recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Adams. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, for convening the
hearing today, and thank you for your leadership and your
tenacity in requesting critical data from our financial
institutions.
To the panelists, thank you all for being here. We can't
make serious strides in diversity, inclusion, and equity
without first knowing the data and the demographics. Once we
have that, we can begin to develop thoughtful, intentional
strategies to improve the workplace and the workforce. So
having said that, I want to raise a couple of questions.
Dr. Mercer, the Dodd-Frank Act created the Offices of
Minority and Women Inclusion (OMWIs) and all of the Federal
financial regulators, largely through the work of this
committee's chairwoman, Chairwoman Waters. And since the
inception of OMWIs, they have done work to diversify the
agencies themselves and to hold the government itself
accountable for diversity and inclusion. What should be the
role of OMWI offices with respect to their regulated entities,
and do they need additional authority to be effective? Dr.
Mercer?
Ms. Mercer. Congresswoman, we appreciate the opportunity to
work with the OMWIs and we encourage our member banks to do the
self-assessment that is governed by the OMWI offices. We think
that the collaboration with the OMWIs should also lend itself
toward our banks leading practices that can help them shape
their DE&I initiatives and programs.
Ms. Adams. Okay. In the report, committee staff recommended
legislation, such as the draft bill, the Promoting Diversity
and Inclusion in Banking Act that would require bank
examinations of diversity and inclusion efforts and would
require banks to disclose diversity data to the Offices of
Minority and Women Inclusion. This question is for you, Dr.
Mercer and Dr. Bentsen. To what extent do you believe that this
legislation would increase transparency of diversity
information in the banking industry and do you support it?
Ms. Mercer. Congresswoman, ABA's legislative team will need
the opportunity to speak with our member banks before giving
you an answer to that question, and they will have to follow up
with you.
Ms. Adams. Dr. Bentsen?
Mr. Bentsen. Yes, the same. We are reviewing the
legislation with our members to get their view. But I also do
want to echo what Dr. Mercer said with respect to engagement
with the offices, which we do with our members and through our
D&I Council.
Ms. Adams. Okay. So, Ms. Elhalaby, Ms. Barry, and Dr.
Greenfield, do you support the legislation?
Ms. Elhalaby. We are also doing further analysis, but we
think that this could really represent important steps for the
Federal Government to take on promoting transparency and
disclosure.
Ms. Adams. Okay. Dr. Mercer and Dr. Bentsen, to what extent
have your member firms vocalized challenges in implementing
their diversity and inclusion initiatives, and what kind of
assistance do your organizations provide to your members who
vocalize such challenges?
Ms. Mercer. Congresswoman, we have an advisory role to our
banks. Some of their challenges are, especially for our smaller
community banks, with getting started with DE&I. And so we
advise them on some leading practices to help them get going.
We also have resources and tools on our website that are
available to any of our members to use to help them with DE&I.
We are starting up an advisory working group in order to
further determine what those needs are, so that we can continue
to develop the resources that they need and can use.
Mr. Bentsen. Congresswoman, this is exactly why we have
things like our D&I Council, why we do our benchmarking
surveys, so that members can learn from each other what both
the challenges that they have in terms of creating a culture of
inclusivity and improve their retention programs, as well as in
their recruitment programs. And so, this is what leads to
things like employee resource groups, sponsorships,
mentorships, and the like. And that is what firms continue to
build every day as part of their diversity and inclusion.
Ms. Adams. Okay. Thank you.
Quickly, Dr. Greenfield, to what extent has Mercer's
research identified similar challenges by banks or others in
the financial services industry and what recommendations have
been made to help organizations overcome such challenges?
Ms. Greenfield. Well, in terms of the most recent research
that we have looked at, one thing that is notable is that there
does appear to be a bit of a revolving door for people of
color, so we do see notable hiring throughout the hierarchy for
people of color, but we also see turnover.
Ms. Adams. Okay.
Ms. Greenfield. Now, while we do expect, based on our data,
to see an increase in representation of people of color, we do
see some issues regarding retention. So, we've been working
with our organizations to help them improve retention.
Ms. Adams. Thank you very much. I'm out of time. I yield
back, Madam Chairwoman.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you.
The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Gooden, is recognized for 5
minutes.
Mr. Gooden. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Congressman Bentsen and Dr. Mercer, I have a question for
both of you. The majority of banks, I understand, report with
detailed transparency in their ESG reports regarding D&I, and
they highlight additional practices and results in those
reports. Do you expect your members to continue to expand their
ESG disclosures to reflect their ongoing commitment to D&I,
moving forward?
Ms. Mercer. Congressman, that is an answer I will have to
get back to you on.
Mr. Gooden. Okay.
Mr. Bentsen. I guess, the way I would answer that is that
this continues to be a priority for the industry, so I would
only see all of these efforts increasing within the industry.
Mr. Gooden. And, Dr. Greenfield, through Mercer's work, are
you observing that companies are recognizing the value of
diversity when it comes to developing business strategies and
making decisions?
Ms. Greenfield. Yes. I don't think there is any question at
this point. Back maybe a decade ago, the business case for
diversity and inclusion was not as clear. I don't hear that
anymore from our clients about whether or not they think there
is a business case. So, I think it is pretty clear that there
is, and they are trying to determine how they can craft
strategies to best support their talent strategy and their
business strategy.
Mr. Gooden. Is it fair to say that we should expect diverse
companies to thrive in the market, compared to their less
diverse competitors?
Ms. Greenfield. Yes, absolutely. I think the evidence is
very clear that diversity and inclusion is associated with
important business outcomes like higher return on equity,
better financial performance, and better employee satisfaction.
Organizations that are interested in delivering on their
business results would be wise to be prioritizing diversity and
inclusion.
Mr. Gooden. Ms. Barry, did you want to add anything?
Ms. Barry. Well, I just believe that this is a rising tide,
not only in the banking industry, but really across most major
corporations. You're starting to see a big focus on this. One
of the ideas that I would suggest--I know this is the Financial
Services Committee--is to require the SEC, when companies
register, to disclose their diversity and inclusion stats and
let them disclose it. Make it part of it for everybody, as
opposed to just one sector.
Mr. Gooden. Thank you.
Mr. Vaughan. Congressman, I do agree with that perception.
I think if you look to things like the CEO Action for Diversity
and Inclusion, which is a joint effort, where more than 800
CEOs have signed onto an affirmation of their commitment to
diversity and inclusion performance or to the purpose of a
corporation, where 181 CEOs have signed onto that effort,
companies benefit from espousing where their values are, and we
are going to see that continue in the future.
Mr. Gooden. Thank you.
Madam Chairwoman, I yield back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you.
Mr. Gooden. Mrs. Wagner, would you like my time?
Mrs. Wagner. I would like it.
Mr. Gooden. I will yield it to Mrs. Wagner.
Chairwoman Beatty. The gentleman yields to the ranking
member.
Mrs. Wagner. I thank the gentleman for yielding me some
time.
We have talked a lot about the financial services sector
being an extension of the STEM utility out there and the STEM
field. And we have watched struggles in the STEM field for
women and people of color and other diversities to join in.
I am wondering, and Mr. Bentsen, perhaps you can speak to
this, or even Dr. Mercer, how does the financial services
industry, knowing that it is a STEM field and profession,
measure up toin term of reporting, in terms of their diversity
and inclusion, measure up with other STEM groups in engineering
and math and technology and sciences and research, things of
this nature? Mr. Mercer?
Mr. Bentsen. You're the academic, but Congresswoman, first
of all, there is no question that that is an important
community that the industry has to recruit from. The industry
is increasingly becoming a technology-driven industry, as is
maybe everything. And the competition for that is fierce as
well. What firms are trying to do, and one of our other
panelists talked about this before is, how do we get ahead of
the curve, in terms of not just waiting until you are going to
the universities and the engineering or mechanical engineering
schools in the university and trying to recruit at that point
in the junior or senior year. But how can you get there in the
high schools, through sponsorship, and things like that. So,
firms are certainly, in some cases, starting internships like
that and beginning to get into that process.
Mrs. Wagner. And, in fact, it was cited by the Majority
that improving the diversity and inclusion at financial
institutions, part of the challenge there was the competition
for diverse talents with STEM and finance-related expertise.
Anything to add, Dr. Mercer?
Ms. Mercer. We look at different hiring models in order to
gather a base of knowledge to advise our banks on hiring
practices that could expand their talent pool.
Mrs. Wagner. Thank you. I have run out of time. I yield
back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you so much.
The gentlewoman from Pennsylvania, Ms. Dean, is recognized
for 5 minutes.
Ms. Dean. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I appreciate the
chance to ask a few questions, and I really appreciate the
chance to be on this important subcommittee.
I wanted to just follow up on a question that Ms. Adams was
asking and just try to get a little more detail from both Dr.
Mercer and Mr. Bentsen on the participation rate in the
surveys. The data that we see is that the FDIC is participating
in about 16 percent, the OCC at 9 percent, and the Fed at about
5 percent. You are encouraging members to participate. Those
rates are terrible. They are very, very low. What are you doing
to encourage and what can you do to put more teeth into that
encouragement and get full participation?
Ms. Mercer. Congresswoman, we hosted a webinar with the
regulators from the FDIC, the OCC, and the Federal Reserve in
November. And that webinar, which is still available on our
website to our member banks, went over how to do the self-
assessment, and then also touched on leading practices for DE&I
in recruiting and retaining minority members or applicants and
women into their banks.
Ms. Dean. Was the webinar intended to try to get greater
participation? Are you alarmed by this?
Ms. Mercer. It was intended to encourage our banks to
continue the self-assessment, and if they had not done so
before, to do so. We are also looking at venue space during a
conference that is upcoming, so that the FDIC can give a
presentation to some of the CDOs and HR professionals that we
expect to be in that audience from our banks on how to do the
self-assessment, since they just moved their report into
FDICconnect, which most of our community banks are already
familiar with.
Ms. Dean. Thank you.
Mr. Bentsen, with SIFMA?
Mr. Bentsen. We also encourage, and we try to provide
information on the reporting requirements to our member firms.
It's interesting to learn things from our colleagues from ABA
as well, that we will talk about with our own team. We don't
have any data as to why firms don't report. We know concerns
they have raised, as I mentioned, around FOIA, but we don't
keep any data as to why they are not doing it.
I will say that our survey captures about half of the
industry.
Ms. Dean. I ask these questions, based on just my own
experience digging in as a result of being a part of this
subcommittee. I took this committee assignment really
seriously. And when we went back into our district last summer,
we held roundtables on diversity and inclusion, and it was very
enlightening. We held roundtables on disability, on race,
gender, the LGBTQ community. And we learned and we listened
what is working and what is not.
And the very thing that we are talking about in terms of
failure of participation is what works is when institutions or
organizations or government, whomever, is actually intentional,
is actually looking at themselves under a microscope,
collecting the data. One of the people at one of our
roundtables, a leader of a government community in our area
said, ``We believed we were diverse, and then we looked around
and recognized that we weren't.''
So unless you are intentional, unless you are doing these
self-assessments and being honest about it, we are going to be
much slower in getting toward that diversity and inclusion.
Let's start with just some of the things that we learned.
So, Dr. Mercer, Mr. Bentsen, what are your recruitment
practices in your own hiring? How are you attracting talent?
And I am thinking, in particular, talent from underserved areas
to participate, to be hired and find careers in the work that
you do.
Ms. Mercer. For ABA, currently, we have a veterans'
recruiting program, which is how I was hired by the
organization. Our organization is actually very diverse already
and we continue to pay attention to that. One of the biggest
programs that has worked for us in attracting talent is student
loan reimbursement or helping our hires to pay off their
student loans over time. And we have also used that as a
recommendation to some of our community banks, especially ones
in more rural areas that have a more difficult time attracting
talent, that they offer student loan reimbursement as an
incentive.
In our organization, we do a lot of learning and
development based around diversity, equity, and inclusion and
it has been integrated into our organization.
Ms. Dean. I am just going to say a quick word; I know my
time is running out. But it was very interesting in a separate
veterans' panel, we were not focusing on diversity and
inclusion. It came up very, very clearly that veterans have a
hard time becoming assimilated, particularly commanders, people
who had successful careers in the military. You would think
industry and organizations would prize their talent, and they
are finding real barriers. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you.
The gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Steil, is recognized for
5 minutes.
Mr. Steil. That was a almost a little lecture on diversity
there. I appreciate you calling today's hearing, Chairwoman
Beatty.
And I appreciate the witnesses being with us here today.
What we have heard today is a lot of the work I think that some
of these large corporations, banks in particular, are doing to
get towards this end goal, including investing appropriately in
programs that are moving us forward towards more diversity.
I want to just dig in a little bit here, Ms. Greenfield, as
it relates to the resources that some of these corporations and
banks are putting into these diversity programs. Could you
scale the type of investment that we are seeing by some of
these banks into improving their diversity?
Ms. Greenfield. I don't have any specific numbers for you,
but what--
Mr. Steil. Can you scope it? Scale it? Anything?
Ms. Greenfield. I cannot; I am afraid I would not be
willing to say that. I could look into it and get back to you.
Mr. Steil. That would be helpful.
Would anybody else like to discuss the time, scale, and
resources that are being invested?
Mr. Bentsen. Likewise, I don't have the data, but
anecdotally, it's quite substantial, and again, members report
to us that this runs from senior leadership down. And so once
you are including senior leadership, that means it is getting a
great deal of emphasis.
Mr. Vaughan. I would add that it is important to recognize
that the institutions covered in this study tend to have the
most well-established, long-standing diversity and inclusion
programs in the industry. And what we see in their performance
is really the thought leadership that middle-market and small
firms in this sector need to leverage to continue to grow their
programs.
Mr. Steil. Thank you.
I am going to go with the broad scale that you offered
there, Mr. Bentsen, that it is substantial, that these
companies are now putting in substantial resources. I just find
it interesting because often, when we are in our Full
Committee, there is a favorite slide that comes up from some of
my colleagues on the other side of the aisle showing the banks
profits up, up, up, up.
And what I think is important to note is that companies
that are performing well have the resources to invest in their
employees. And so, across the broad business spectrum that we
seen in the United States, companies that are performing well,
that have the resources, often reinvest that into their
employees. And I think it is of note as we see some of these
large banks have thoughtful programs, investing substantial
resources into improving the diversity in their institutions,
that there is an aspect that they are doing this in a time when
they are able to.
So as we see companies generating profits, I think one of
the things that needs to be highlighted is that many of these
companies then go back and are reinvesting in their employees.
And one of the areas that has the greatest need for investment
is in improving the diversity of women and underrepresented
minority groups to be successful. Sometimes, when we see that
side, I think it is worthwhile thinking that as businesses do
well, there is a benefit to these businesses in investing back
into their institutions.
And one of the greatest areas of that, that I think we are
highlighting today in many ways, is the investment in making
sure that women and underrepresented minority groups succeed.
I want to shift gears slightly and go back to Dr.
Greenfield. In your testimony, you discussed the concept of an
internal labor market. I would like you to dive in if you would
and just share a little bit more as to what you mean by that
and how some of these resources that we have at these banks are
playing a role in that internal labor market?
Ms. Greenfield. Sure. Essentially, at its core, an internal
labor market is just understanding how people move in, through,
and out of an organization. It is really understanding the
talent dynamics within an organizatio, understanding how are
women and people of color entering the organization from the
external labor market compared to their white and male
counterparts, how are they moving up throughout the
organization, and how are they being retained, compared to
these counterparts?
And this is really key to increasing diversity and
inclusion for organizations. If they want to increase the
representation of women and people of color, they must have an
understanding of where they have gaps. Is it in hiring? Is it
in promotion? Is it in turnover? And at what particular levels?
Are there certain chokepoints beyond which women and people of
color are struggling to progress? And if there are, they need
to understand, and do more digging to understand, what are the
actual driving forces behind that?
Mr. Steil. Thank you.
With my limited time left, I would like to go back to Mr.
Bentsen. The financial services industry has made significant
progress, there is room to go, but significant progress in
improving its diversity and inclusion practices. We will all
recognize that some are further ahead than others. And I am
sure that is reflected amongst your membership. Can you discuss
the role that SIFMA is playing in facilitating some of the
business-to-business sharing of best practices?
Mr. Bentsen. Yes, Congressman. As I mentioned, besides our
benchmarking, where we have about half of the industry, in
terms of employee base, participate in that, we have tried to
permeate beyond our D&I Council, which is about 70 member
firms, to across all of our industry programming from executive
education to legal to all of these issues, to have D&I
programming in there and bringing in senior industry leaders as
part of that process.
Mr. Steil. Thank you very much.
I yield back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you.
The gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Clay, who is also the
Chair of our Subcommittee on Housing, Community Development,
and Insurance, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Clay. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And thanks for
holding this hearing.
And I thank all of you all for being here. It's good to see
you again, Mr. Bentsen. Let me ask you, with your background
toggling between a Member of Congress and financial services,
you probably have a unique insight on why and how banks and
other financial institutions operate.
I would like for you and Dr. Mercer to address for me, how
do we eliminate that blind spot throughout a financial
institution? When a customer walks in your institution, and
with all things being equal, they may have pretty good credit
score, but they apply for a loan or a credit card, whatever,
and because of biases, they are treated differently as a
customer. They are given a higher interest rate. They may be
denied or approved for a home improvement loan or a loan or a
mortgage. How do we address that as a society or as an
industry? How would you address it? Let's start with you, Mr.
Bentsen.
Mr. Bentsen. Thank you, Congressman. I don't represent the
loan side of the industry, but let me say this. First, it
starts with the tone at the top, and the tone at the top has
been quite clear across the industry and increasingly so. And
with executives that I speak with in our sector of why this is
important.
And it is important really for two reasons that I have
talked about before. One, it is important--and Congressman
Steil was sort of talking about this as well. If you are going
to manage and run a successful company, you have to invest in
your employees. And the employees you are going to hire are
going to look like the community that you are hiring from and
you are serving. So, you would have to make sure that you have
that. And we are seeing that more and more every day and
recognize it at the senior levels of leadership.
But the second thing, which is maybe even more important
that you touch on is, and particularly in the securities
industry, this is a highly competitive industry, an extremely
competitive industry. Clients can walk out the door any time
they want to and there is somewhere else for them to go. And
so, managers who do well tend to be pretty smart and to figure
out, if I am not keeping up with my client, my business isn't
going to be around too much longer. And this is something else
that executives figure out.
So, have there been blind spots? For sure. But I think this
is something that people realize, what does our community look
like today, who are the clients we are serving, and how do we
make sure we are competitive in that marketplace?
Mr. Clay. Dr. Mercer, how does the banking industry do a
better job of serving their customers?
Ms. Mercer. Unfortunately, discrimination is a problem in
every segment of society, and the banking industry is no
exception. However, unconscious bias training can help people
understand what their biases are and become aware of them, and
then perhaps alter their behavior once they have that
awareness.
One of the things that I am looking into is research by Dr.
Barbara Adams that talks about having diversity of biases,
which tends to mitigate some of the situations that you were
giving in your example. Where as long as not everyone has the
same bias, it can equalize the playing field for everyone. Our
mortgage lenders, in particular, have a degree of anxiety
because most of them are aging out. And they know that they
need to recruit diverse talent to replace them and diverse
talent to serve the customer base that is also emerging.
Mr. Clay. And how is that process going? Are they really
getting a more diverse workforce?
Ms. Mercer. Sir, they are working on it, and they are
asking for speakers and training and resources to help them do
that. And ABA tries to provide those resources and tools for
them.
Mr. Clay. Thank you.
And I see Mr. Vaughan. Go ahead.
Mr. Vaughan. Congressman, I would just add that it is
really critical that the diversity and inclusion practices be
fully resourced, integrated fully throughout the business
enterprise, and that the institutions must make sure that their
policies and practices are such that when the consumer walks in
the door, there is very clear delineation of what types of
products and how they will engage that consumer as they seek to
access credit-based products or other services from the
institution.
Mr. Clay. I thank you all for your responses, and I yield
back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you.
The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green, who is also the Chair
of our Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, is
recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Green. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I want to
compliment you on the diversity of the panel and for the
tenacity that you have shown in this area. I think history will
be very kind to you.
Diversity has become a great talking point. The challenge
for us is, how do we make it an action item? Talking points are
great. Action items are better. Dr. King reminded us that those
who tell us that we can wait, that there is more time, that
wait almost always means never. He went on to say that justice
too long delayed is justice denied.
So, let's take a look at this from a voir dire or voir
dire, depending on where you are from, point of view. It is a
term that trial lawyers use, one that I am quite fond of as a
former litigator. Question for you, and would you kindly extend
a hand into the air, so that I may, for the record, record your
position. If you believe that CEOs should be incentivized to
ensure diversity in their company's ranks, particularly in
upper-management positions, kindly extend a hand into the air.
[Hands raised.]
Okay. Please hold your hands up, so that I may make a
proper recording. I take photos of these for my office. Let the
record reflect that Ms. Mercer, Ms. Elhalaby, and is that Ms.
Greenfield, I can't quite see it from here, oh, who did not
raise their hands.
If you believe that race-conscious regulations are needed
to ensure financial inclusion, raise your hand, please.
[Hands raised.]
I believe that one of our panel has indicated that that
would be very helpful. But only one person? Raise your hand,
please, if you think race-conscious regulations are needed.
Okay. We'll note that one panelist has extended a hand, and
that is Ms. Elhalaby. Thank you very much.
Friends, one more question. If you believe that in a
country where women outnumber men, 71 percent of the average,
executive, senior level, diversity positions across banks, that
71 percent of them should be held by men, extend a hand into
the air. If you think that 71 percent should be held by men--
not one hand is in the air. Well, yes. Seventy-one percent are
currently held by men, 29 percent by women. All I'm asking is
if you think that is right, raise your hand.
Okay. Let's do it the other way. If you think that is
wrong, raise your hand.
[Hands raised.]
You have to participate. I know it is tough. Thank you.
Dear friends, I greatly appreciate what is happening here,
but having lived as long as I have and experienced the
invidious discrimination that I have suffered, I really don't
have as much patience, because I don't have as much time left
to make the change that I want to see. I just don't have the
patience that a good many of my colleagues do--and I respect
them--but I don't have it. We need to change it and we need to
change it right away.
An excuse of, we can't find any, that is what I am hearing
from some of you. That is not acceptable. I see one sitting out
there in the audience right now, a person who is capable,
competent, and qualified, was hired by your business, Mr.
Bentsen. People are available. We have to get on with it. I
refuse to leave the planet, assuming that I have a reasonable
amount of time left, without at least making sure that my
record reflects that I did all that I could.
When you have power, you have to use it. We have the power.
Regulations may be the thing to do. I think the carrot was a
good idea. But after having heard things today, I think we have
to move now to the stick. That is regulations. I yield back the
balance of my time.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you.
The gentlewoman from Texas, Ms. Garcia, is recognized for 5
minutes.
Ms. Garcia of Texas. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And I
thank you and Chairwoman Waters for putting all this attention
on an issue that has been very concerning for me for many
years. I do want to apologize first, Madam Chairwoman, not only
to you, but to all of the panelists. I have been in a Judiciary
Committee markup that is rather lengthy, and we are still
taking votes, and then we will probably be doing it most of the
day. So, I am running back and forth across the hall. But
please do not consider my lack of attendance as a lack of
interest, because it is really quite the contrary.
This is a critical issue for me. It brings back a lot of
memories of when I was city controller in Houston and, in fact,
going to some of the pricings on Wall Street. And I remember
the very first one, walking in and not seeing the diversity and
inclusion that we would all hope for. In fact, it is safe to
say that I saw hardly any women and hardly any minorities on
the floor.
That has changed a little with time. And I am hopeful,
someday, to drop in on a bond buyer conference and see if it
has changed there, too. Because I recall going to quite a few
of those and, again, there too, there was maybe a handful or
two of minorities or women in the room or at the conference. So
we have to make change, but make it real of not only changing
the people at the table, but making sure that they are heard,
making sure that they are part of the conversation and the
decision-making process.
Dr. Mercer, I have to say that I am very disappointed that
the ABA and the banks have been unwilling, in this hearing, to
support legislation mandating D&I disclosure. The industry
seems to be telling us that diversity is important, but is
unwilling to go beyond, ``Trust us.'' We are going to keep
doing it better.
But we see that the participation rates in the OMWI surveys
are incredibly low and, frankly, somewhat unacceptable. Knowing
that D&I data is going to be made public will be a powerful
focusing tool inside these organizations. I know that some
banks are already doing this, and I would hope ABA reconsiders
its position. Otherwise, I am afraid that we will be having
this conversation again in 5 years, applauding whatever tiny
improvements have been made.
I want to talk about retention issues, and I wanted to
start with you, Mr. Bentsen. I know that we have identified
some retention challenges. Could you share with me those that
you see, and can you discuss the factors that are driving the
turnover?
Mr. Bentsen. Not a lot is reported to us, in terms of why
people leave. In some cases, firms will talk to employees as
they are leaving and find out if there is an issue or if they
are just going to a different firm for whatever reason.
What the firms are trying to do is get ahead of that, and
to come up with different mentoring sponsorship programs,
things like employee resource groups, things like mentoring
with senior executives or managers. Trying to, as one of the
panelists put it, create either a pipeline or a pathway from
where someone is today to where they can aspire to, as they
progress within the firms, with the goal of keeping that
retention.
Because, as I pointed out, particularly with people of
color, what our survey shows is recruitment of people of color
is above the mean, which is good. But retention is below the
mean. So that means, for all the investment that is being made
to recruit people of color, the firms are keeping many people,
but not keeping as many as they would like. So they have to
come up with these different tools. And they are always trying
to figure out what other firms are doing to do so.
Ms. Garcia of Texas. But is there any one thing or two
things that you can pinpoint, things that would be a best
practice of what really needs to be done to increase retention?
Mr. Bentsen. I think our firms would report to us two
things: one, mentorship with a more senior employee; and two,
employee resource groups, where employees would feel that there
is an inclusivity effort on the part of the firm.
Ms. Garcia of Texas. Okay. Dr. Mercer, did you have
anything to add?
Ms. Mercer. Congresswoman, I believe that the mentorship
and sponsorship, as Mr. Bentsen has discussed, is essential. I
would also add stay interviews and promotion and professional
development transparency. Those seem to be key drivers for our
bankers in retaining their personnel, so the stay interview
conducted at key points in someone's career would be very
effective.
Ms. Garcia of Texas. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I yield back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you. I would like to ask unanimous
consent to have a letter from the University of Michigan School
of Social Work Regarding Diversity and Inclusion in the
Financial Services Industry to be entered into the record.
Without objection, it is so ordered.
I would like to thank all of our witnesses today for their
testimony and for their time.
The Chair notes that some Members may have additional
questions for this panel, which they may wish to submit in
writing. Without objection, the hearing record will remain open
for 5 legislative days for Members to submit written questions
to these witnesses and to place their responses in the record.
Also, without objection, Members will have 5 legislative days
to submit extraneous materials to the Chair for inclusion in
the record.
This hearing is now adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:03 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
February 12, 2020
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]